Talk:Barack Obama
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Frequently asked questions
Family and religious background Q1: Why isn't Barack Obama's Muslim heritage or education included in this article?
A1: Barack Obama was never a practitioner of Islam. His biological father having been "raised as a Muslim" but being a "confirmed atheist" by the time Obama was born is mentioned in the article. Please see this article on Snopes.com for a fairly in-depth debunking of the myth that Obama is Muslim. Barack Obama did not attend an Islamic or Muslim school while living in Indonesia age 6–10, but Roman Catholic and secular public schools. See [1], [2], [3] The sub-articles Public image of Barack Obama and Barack Obama religion conspiracy theories address this issue. Q2: The article refers to him as African American, but his mother is white and his black father was not an American. Should he be called African American, or something else ("biracial", "mixed", "Kenyan-American", "mulatto", "quadroon", etc.)?
A2: Obama himself and the media identify him, the vast majority of the time, as African American or black. African American is primarily defined as "citizens or residents of the United States who have origins in any of the black populations of Africa", a statement that accurately describes Obama and does not preclude or negate origins in the white populations of America as well. Thus we use the term African American in the introduction, and address the specifics of his parentage in the first headed section of the article. Many individuals who identify as black have varieties of ancestors from many countries who may identify with other racial or ethnic groups. See our article on race for more information on this concept. We could call him the first "biracial" candidate or the first "half black half white" candidate or the first candidate with a parent born in Africa, but Wikipedia is a tertiary source which reports what other reliable sources say, and most of those other sources say "first African American". Readers will learn more detail about his ethnic background in the article body. Q3: Why can't we use his full name outside of the lead? It's his name, isn't it?
A3: The relevant part of the Manual of Style says that outside the lead of an article on a person, that person's conventional name is the only one that's appropriate. (Thus one use of "Richard Milhous Nixon" in the lead of Richard Nixon, "Richard Nixon" thereafter.) Talk page consensus has also established this. Q4: Why is Obama referred to as "Barack Hussein Obama II" in the lead sentence rather than "Barack Hussein Obama, Jr."? Isn't "Jr." more common?
A4: Although "Jr." is typically used when a child shares the name of his or her parent, "II" is considered acceptable, as well. And in Obama's case, the usage on his birth certificate is indeed "II", and is thus the form used at the beginning of this article, per manual of style guidelines on names. Q5: Why don't we cover the claims that Obama is not a United States citizen, his birth certificate was forged, he was not born in Hawaii, he is ineligible to be President, etc?
A5: The Barack Obama article consists of an overview of major issues in the life and times of the subject. The controversy over his eligibility, citizenship, birth certificate etc is currently a fairly minor issue in overall terms, and has had no significant legal or mainstream political impact. It is therefore not currently appropriate for inclusion in an overview article. These claims are covered separately in Barack Obama citizenship conspiracy theories. Controversies, praise, and criticism Q6: Why isn't there a criticisms/controversies section?
A6: Because a section dedicated to criticisms and controversies is no more appropriate than a section dedicated solely to praise and is an indication of a poorly written article. Criticisms/controversies/praises should be worked into the existing prose of the article, per the Criticism essay. Q7: Why isn't a certain controversy/criticism/praise included in this article?
A7: Wikipedia's Biography of living persons policy says that "[c]riticism and praise of the subject should be represented if it is relevant to the subject's notability and can be sourced to reliable secondary sources, and so long as the material is written in a manner that does not overwhelm the article or appear to take sides; it needs to be presented responsibly, conservatively, and in a neutral, encyclopedic tone." Criticism or praise that cannot be reliably sourced cannot be placed in a biography. Also, including everything about Obama in a single article would exceed Wikipedia's article size restrictions. A number of sub-articles have been created and some controversies/criticisms/praises have been summarized here or been left out of this article altogether, but are covered in some detail in the sub-articles. Q8: But this controversy/criticism/praise is all over the news right now! It should be covered in detail in the main article, not buried in a sub-article!
A8: Wikipedia articles should avoid giving undue weight to something just because it is in the news right now. If you feel that the criticism/controversy/praise is not being given enough weight in this article, you can try to start a discussion on the talk page about giving it more. See WP:BRD. Q9: This article needs much more (or much less) criticism/controversy.
A9: Please try to assume good faith. Like all articles on Wikipedia, this article is a work in progress so it is possible for biases to exist at any point in time. If you see a bias that you wish to address, you are more than welcome to start a new discussion, or join in an existing discussion, but please be ready to provide sources to support your viewpoint and try to keep your comments civil. Starting off your discussion by accusing the editors of this article of having a bias is the quickest way to get your comment ignored. Talk and article mechanics Q10: This article is over 275kb long, and the article size guideline says that it should be broken up into sub-articles. Why hasn't this happened?
A10: The restriction mentioned in WP:SIZE is 60kB of readable prose, not the byte count you see when you open the page for editing. As of May 11, 2016, this article had about 10,570 words of readable prose (65 kB according to prosesize tool), only slightly above the guideline. The rest is mainly citations and invisible comments, which do not count towards the limit. Q11: I notice this FAQ mentions starting discussions or joining in on existing discussions a lot. If Wikipedia is supposed to be the encyclopedia anyone can edit, shouldn't I just be bold and fix any biases that I see in the article?
A11: It is true that Wikipedia is the encyclopedia that anyone can edit and no one needs the permission of other editors of this article to make changes to it. But Wikipedia policy is that, "While the consensus process does not require posting to the discussion page, it can be useful and is encouraged." This article attracts editors that have very strong opinions about Obama (positive and negative) and these editors have different opinions about what should and should not be in the article, including differences as to appropriate level of detail. As a result of this it may be helpful, as a way to avoid content disputes, to seek consensus before adding contentious material to or removing it from the article. Q12: The article/talk page has been vandalized! Why hasn't anyone fixed this?
A12: Many editors watch this article, and it is unlikely that vandalism would remain unnoticed for long. It is possible that you are viewing a cached result of the article; If so, try bypassing your cache. Q13: Why are so many discussions closed so quickly?
A13: Swift closure is common for topics that have already been discussed repeatedly, topics pushing fringe theories, and topics that would lead to violations of Wikipedia's policy concerning biographies of living persons, because of their disruptive nature and the unlikelihood that consensus to include the material will arise from the new discussion. In those cases, editors are encouraged to read this FAQ for examples of such common topics. Q14: I added new content to the article, but it was removed!
A14: Double-check that your content addition is not sourced to an opinion blog, editorial, or non-mainstream news source. Wikipedia's policy on biographies of living persons states, in part, "Material about living persons must be sourced very carefully. Without reliable third-party sources, it may include original research and unverifiable statements, and could lead to libel claims." Sources of information must be of a very high quality for biographies. While this does not result in an outright ban of all blogs and opinion pieces, most of them are regarded as questionable. Inflammatory or potentially libelous content cited to a questionable source will be removed immediately without discussion. Q15: I disagree with the policies and content guidelines that prevent my proposed content from being added to the article.
A15: That's understandable. Wikipedia is a work in progress. If you do not approve of a policy cited in the removal of content, it's possible to change it. Making cogent, logical arguments on the policy's talk page is likely to result in a positive alteration. This is highly encouraged. However, this talk page is not the appropriate place to dispute the wording used in policies and guidelines. If you disagree with the interpretation of a policy or guideline, there is also recourse: Dispute resolution. Using the dispute resolution process prevents edit wars, and is encouraged. Q16: I saw someone start a discussion on a topic raised by a blog/opinion piece, and it was reverted!
A16: Unfortunately, due to its high profile, this talk page sees a lot of attempts to argue for policy- and guideline-violating content – sometimes the same violations many times a day. These are regarded as disruptive, as outlined above. Consensus can change; material previously determined to be unacceptable may become acceptable. But it becomes disruptive and exhausting when single-purpose accounts raise the same subject(s) repeatedly in the apparent hopes of overcoming significant objections by other editors. Editors have reached a consensus for dealing with this behavior:
Other Q17: Why aren't the 2008 and 2012 presidential campaigns covered in more detail?
A17: They are, in sub-articles called Barack Obama 2008 presidential campaign and Barack Obama 2012 presidential campaign. Things that are notable in the context of the presidential campaigns, but are of minimal notability to Barack Obama's overall biography, belong in the sub-articles. Campaign stops, the presidential debates, and the back-and-forth accusations and claims of the campaigns can all be found there. |
![]() | Text and/or other creative content from this version of Foreign policy of the Barack Obama administration was copied or moved into Barack Obama with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
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![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on November 4, 2016. |
Index 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80 81, 82, 83 |
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This page has archives. Sections older than 30 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III. |
Net neutrality
After 30 days without discussion:
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Please add [[File:111014 NetNeutrality Final.ogv|thumb|right|108px|<small style="font-size:xxsmall">11/10/14 WH.gov</small>]]
at the begin of the internet policy section. 2A03:2267:0:0:601C:F335:641F:2D2A (talk) 15:12, 16 January 2017 (UTC)
Not done, lack of discussion is not consensus. There wasn't any discussion even by the proposer. - GB fan 18:00, 17 January 2017 (UTC)
- No discussion at all (in the 30 days before the archive-bot does its duty) is not controversial, and the whitehouse.gov source page + video were blanked for obvious reasons. The edit request was IMHO sensible + specific. I take the 5th for necessary in the four WP:ER general considerations, and fixed the source-URL on commons. Now it's your job to check if that counts as You can help make this article even better! –2A03:2267:0:0:F07F:4BB:C093:71D2 (talk) 12:21, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
- It is not my job to do anything on here, like most on here am a volunteer. If you want it added you need to convince others why it belongs and you haven't done that. - GB fan 15:43, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
- No discussion at all (in the 30 days before the archive-bot does its duty) is not controversial, and the whitehouse.gov source page + video were blanked for obvious reasons. The edit request was IMHO sensible + specific. I take the 5th for necessary in the four WP:ER general considerations, and fixed the source-URL on commons. Now it's your job to check if that counts as You can help make this article even better! –2A03:2267:0:0:F07F:4BB:C093:71D2 (talk) 12:21, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
"Grew up in the Pacific"?
In the lede section it says "Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii two years after the territory was admitted to the Union and grew up in the Pacific." I contend that "grew up in the Pacific" (the link is to the Pacific Ocean) is meaningless. Where he actually grew up: born in Hawaii, a year in Washington State, another 5 years in Hawaii, 5 years in Indonesia, and 8 years in Hawaii. Clearly he spent most of his growing-up time in Hawaii (and none of it in the Pacific Ocean). For purposes of the lede I think it should say something like "grew up mostly in Hawaii, except for five years in Indonesia." I am open to other ways of expressing his youth. Since this is the lede it should summarize and not go into great detail. Thoughts? --MelanieN (talk) 05:15, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
- Good points. After some consideration of how to phrase it, I chose to change it to "He grew up mostly in Hawaii, but also lived one year in Washington state and four years in Indonesia during his childhood." I think that is not too much information, and rather relevant, as it takes some time to actually find this information from the much more detailed sections later in the article and is a useful summary of his childhood to bring in the lead. As always, the sentence is still open to subsequent rephrasing if anyone finds better ways to phrase it. :-) --Jhertel (talk) 13:03, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
Extended confirmed protection question
I notice that this page, along with the pages about Donald Trump and his wife Melania have been extended confirmed protected in the past couple of days. This page and Donald Trump have been given indefinite protection and Melania Trump has been given protection for 1 year. My question is whether we plan to keep them this way, like we do semi for several thousand articles already, or if we plan to reduce to semi again once the high vandal risk goes down (Trump was inaugurated the other day). I'm simply asking because we have never used indefinite extended confirmed protection on pages about presidents before, and I thought it was virtually never used indefinitely on articles not related to the Israel-Palestine conflict. Can somebody confirm please.
Gourleyo (talk) 11:23, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
- Ping the protecting admin. Regarding Donald Trump, it's only a very short term measure due to a) current news and extremely high visibility; and b) currently disputed content. See this. Indefinite, on Trump, is a means to prevent the article defaulting to no protection upon expiry. -- zzuuzz (talk) 11:32, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
- We can reevaluate in a year whether ec protection is really necessary. It clearly seems necessary at this point.--Ymblanter (talk) 11:39, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
Yeah. I asked about Trump in November following his victory and was told that, but I thought I'd ask again. It just seemed weird to indefinitely extended confirm protect a page only after he has ceased to be president. Gourleyo (talk) 11:35, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
- I see it was me who answered you last time :) Protection was reduced that time within several days, and the semi-protection worked, on the whole. This article and Melania Trump don't seem like good candidates for ECP. -- zzuuzz (talk) 11:39, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
- I protected both since I see ongoing disruption. Once the inauguration hype is over, we can re-evaluate the protection.--Ymblanter (talk) 11:41, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 22 January 2017
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In the post-presidency section, add that the Obamas moved to Kalorama, Washington, D.C. on leaving office. Source: http://edition.cnn.com/2016/05/25/politics/obama-kalorama-washington-dc-leases-house/
This is essential information for the reader, who will be asking "So where did he go to live after being president?" Valentina Cardoso (talk) 18:50, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
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There is nothing in article about most important International event of 2014 - Russian military intervention in Ukraine (2014–present), and about the reaction of Obama (International sanctions during the Ukrainian crisis) on that event. This is weird !!!! M.Karelin (talk) 19:06, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
Not done – when making an edit request, provide an exact copy of the text you want in the article, it's not clear what you want. Laurdecl talk 01:26, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 22 January 2017
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I would like to point out the pronoun error in the first paragraph that—from my observations—breaks with Wikipedia precedent. I move to change "... was the first African American President of the United States, serving as the 44th President from 2009 to 2017." to "... is an American politician who served as the 44th and first African American President of the United States."
However, I will rescind my request if there is a new protocol involving the use of past tense to describe his relation to the presidency. Thank you. Frevangelion (talk) 01:05, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
Not done – Personally, I find the second sentence confusing: "the 44th and first African American". This change would probably require consensus. Laurdecl talk 01:32, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
- The article has been changed back to the standard format for a president: "...is an American politician who served as the 44th President of the United States from 2009 to 2017. He was the first African American to serve as president...". This probably represents consensus as it has been in this format for years.--MelanieN (talk) 03:16, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 January 2017
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Post-presidency (2017–present)
Barack Obama's presidency ended at noon on January 20, 2017, immediately following the inauguration of his Republican successor, Donald Trump. After the inauguration, Obama lifted off on Marine One, circled the White House, and flew to Joint Base Andrews.[1] The family rented a house in Kalorama, Washington D.C.[2]
Presidential library
The Barack Obama Presidential Center[3] is the planned presidential library of Barack Obama. The center will be hosted by the University of Chicago, and will be located in Jackson Park on the South Side of Chicago, Illinois. Once completed, it will become the 14th site in the National Archives and Records Administration's presidential library system.[4] The nonprofit Barack Obama Foundation was set up to oversee the creation of the Center and the building of its site.
2607:FEA8:20E0:6C3:80C9:E3C5:6DE0:AA2B (talk) 22:24, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. EvergreenFir (talk) 22:30, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
References
- ^ Korte, Gregory (January 20, 2017). "Inside Barack Obama's final hours in the White House". USA Today.
- ^ Kosinski, Michelle (27 May 2016). "Peek inside Obama's post-presidential pad". CNN. Retrieved 22 January 2017.
{{cite news}}
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suggested) (help) - ^ "The Obama Presidential Center". barackobamafoundation.org.
- ^ "Obama Foundation FAQs". Barack Obama Foundation.
Presidential seal edit request on 24 January 2017
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I am asking for the addition of the Presidential seal into President Barack Obama's ranking, as seen in past president's Wikipedia page.
I have written out the following text for a transfer onto the page and to remove the pre-existing labels. Fernandillo1 (talk) 04:34, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
- Yes, the above user is adding presidential seals into infoboxes of every president's article. However, they don't look very aesthetically pleasing since they can't be read in the infoboxes due to being shrunk by so much, so there's really no reason to have them there. Nohomersryan (talk) 05:51, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
- How about the change in resolution in pixels from 35px to 45px, or any other enlargement of the seal? Fernandillo1 (talk) 06:01, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the
{{edit extended-protected}}
template. - Mlpearc (open channel) 23:44, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 January 2017
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It says that Obama left in Marine One. Isn't technically no longer Marine One once the passenger is no longer president? 74.90.249.37 (talk) 06:01, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
Done Thank you, - Mlpearc (open channel) 23:38, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
Ukrainian crisis
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In the intro, in the same section that says During his second term, Obama promoted......., the following sentence must be added: following the invasion in Ukraine, initiated the sanctions against Russia. Regards. 46.71.225.61 (talk) 15:12, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the
{{edit extended-protected}}
template. - Mlpearc (open channel) 23:40, 24 January 2017 (UTC)- Mlpearc Ukrainian crisis was the most prominent event in 2014 !! There is nothing about it in the article. That's shame !! 217.76.1.22 (talk) 06:06, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
- @217.76.1.22: Then it should be very easy for you to provide a reliable source to support the change you want made. - Mlpearc (open channel) 15:53, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
- Mlpearc According to The Atlantic, it was N1 event in 2014 - [4]. Is it enough source for you ?? Plz make an addition in intro. 178.160.172.191 (talk) 21:05, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) A reliable source to support your claim is good enough for me, but I'm just one editor and to be clear I'll let someone else determine if this request should be actioned with this new information. Happy editing, - Mlpearc (open channel) 21:16, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
- Mlpearc According to The Atlantic, it was N1 event in 2014 - [4]. Is it enough source for you ?? Plz make an addition in intro. 178.160.172.191 (talk) 21:05, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
- @217.76.1.22: Then it should be very easy for you to provide a reliable source to support the change you want made. - Mlpearc (open channel) 15:53, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
- Mlpearc Ukrainian crisis was the most prominent event in 2014 !! There is nothing about it in the article. That's shame !! 217.76.1.22 (talk) 06:06, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
- Anthony22 and Tataral, plz pay attention on this section. Thanks. 178.160.172.191 (talk) 21:09, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
I certainly agree that his response to the Ukrainian cricis should be mentioned in the article and preferably in the lead, that Obama and his government had a major role in the sanctions, and that they were highly important foreign policy initiatives of the Obama government (among the most important during his presidency in the field of foreign policy). I'm really supposed to sleep now, so I won't do the necessary edits myself right now, but I might have a second look on this issue tomorrow if it's not already resolved. --Tataral (talk) 23:31, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 January 2017
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Obama took off in Executive One on January 20th, not Marine One. Marine One carries the president. Wickegan (talk) 22:18, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 January 2017
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2605:E000:638D:AB00:340F:4913:B6FC:2FCA (talk) 23:26, 24 January 2017 (UTC) Not the first African American president, he was the first mixed race president..
Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. - Mlpearc (open channel) 23:42, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
The facts in this article are reference with appropriate sources and references.
No viewpoint is more represented than another throughout the article.Mreaux (talk) 17:28, 25 January 2017 (UTC)MR
Conversations with Barack Obama
- The Obama White House (26 March 2015). "A Conversation with President Obama and The Wire Creator David Simon". Retrieved 7 February 2017 – via YouTube.
- SXSW (11 March 2016). "President Barack Obama Keynote Conversation - SXSW Interactive 2016". Retrieved 7 February 2017 – via YouTube.
- The Players' Tribune (22 June 2016). "President Obama and Derek Jeter - Full Conversation". Retrieved 7 February 2017 – via YouTube.
- The Obama White House (13 July 2016). "President Obama hosts a Conversation on Community Policing and Criminal Justice". Retrieved 7 February 2017 – via YouTube.
- ABC News (15 July 2016). "President Obama and the People Town Hall: A National Conversation". Retrieved 7 February 2017 – via YouTube.
- The Obama White House (7 April 2016). "President Obama Participates in a Conversation about the Supreme Court". Retrieved 7 February 2017 – via YouTube.
- The Obama White House (9 September 2009). "President Obama's Conversation with 9th Graders". Retrieved 7 February 2017 – via YouTube.
- Brookings Institution (9 December 2013). "Saban Forum 2013: A Conversation with President Barack Obama". Retrieved 7 February 2017 – via YouTube.
- RTVMalacanang (18 November 2015). "Summit Dialogue: Conversation with H.E. President Barack Obama, USA 11/18,/2015". Retrieved 7 February 2017 – via YouTube.
- APEC 2015 CEO Summit (7 December 2015). "Session Ten: Conversation with H.E. President Barack Obama, USA, Jack Ma and Aisa Mijeno". Retrieved 7 February 2017 – via YouTube.
{{cite web}}
: CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list (link) - Clinton Global Initiative (4 October 2013). "A Conversation on Health with President Bill Clinton and President Barack Obama - 2013". Retrieved 7 February 2017 – via YouTube.
Xb2u7Zjzc32 (talk) 10:41, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 8 February 2017
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http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/images/2009/01/20/obamaofficialfoto.jpg (Replace the main photo on this page currently with this one.) N8k1ng (talk) 04:32, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
Not done: There's no way to determine from that link the license status of the image. —C.Fred (talk) 04:33, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
- I´m pretty sure it is the main foto we used his first term. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:13, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
Drone death toll
During the Obama administration, U.S. drone strikes in Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, and Libya killed an estimated amount of civilians between 64 and 116. [1]
Lucy.n.tate (talk) 04:52, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
- Indeed Lucy.n.tate, feel free to include it in an appropriate place in the article. You might want to add some details. Wikisiki999 (talk) 05:33, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
Immigration
Obama deported more undocumented immigrants than any other president in the history of the United States. [2]Lucy.n.tate (talk) 04:58, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
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- Selected anniversaries (November 2016)