User talk:Durova

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Nominating another user for Triple Crown:

User:Nmajdan has 7 DYK's. 3 GA's and 2 FA's listed on his user page. He probably qualifies for a TC, or maybe an Imperial TC. As an aside, it may be time to archive more of your talk page. Ciao... --Jayron32|talk|contribs 02:41, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for nom!↔NMajdan•talk 20:22, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Can I add a possible nomination? User:Smurrayinchester created the article Winter service vehicle listed as a GA and a DYK on 2007-02-13 and as a FA on 2007-04-28. His user page at User:Smurrayinchester/Main lists 10 total DYKs and a FL and a FA. That leaves him needing a second GA for the Imperial TC. Imzadi1979 08:48, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

I'll be a little bit catching up with this. If you'd like to simplify third party nominations, please submit specific links. Best wishes and thanks, Durova^Charge! 19:31, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Nominating... Wait... No. RfAr stuff, actually.

See this. Thought you'd like to know this. - Penwhale | ^{Blast him / Follow his steps} 05:05, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Durova^Charge! 05:07, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

New sockpuppets of VinceB

Hey Durova, I am sorry to disturb you, but the banned User:VinceB is back again and my request at WP:ANI remains without any answer. Could you look at [1] please? Thank you in advance. Tankred 14:01, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Do that checkuser. You'll be suprised. They are not mine. I always confirm my sockpuppets, just Tankred delets those confirms [2]. And anything, that can be embarassing to him, or his way, to maintain that picture, he built up around me. If right now I'm logging in and out, that it will be easy to confirm. If not, than, intrestingly, it happens, that two-three individuals are saying the same, including me. You decide: lynching, or doing the right way, and go checkuser. - VinceB--195.56.51.196 14:34, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Vince, e-mail is the right way to send comments during your ban if you'd like the community to lift that ban someday. Durova^Charge! 14:50, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

After his most recently used IP got blocked, his new sockpuppets Odbhss and Pannonia disappeared too. But, since VinceB is using a dynamic IP, I am pretty sure they will return soon. I would greatly appreciate if you could address my request at WP:ANI whenever you have time.[3] Tankred 15:02, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Hello Durova. Sorry if I'm disturbting you, but User:Pannonia keeps replacing valid information with nonsense in the Slovakia article, keeping reverting my undos (4 times so far) and deleting portions of Principality of Nitra (3 times). Can you help me? Thanks. MarkBA ^t/c/@ 16:08, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Warned on talk page. I'll follow up at AIV/3RR noticeboard if necessary. Please contact me on my talk page if Durova is offline. --YFB ¿ 16:45, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Pannonia (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) blocked 24hrs - Durova, you may wish to adjust the block length at your discretion. --YFB ¿ 17:10, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Update: Pannonia has been blocked for 24 hours, but this does not resolve the main problem: VinceB's evasion of a ban by using two new sockpuppets. I have filed a formal request at WP:ANI[4] and I hope someone will find it. Tankred 17:52, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

I've reviewed the checkuser history and some have been declined per WP:DUCK, so WP:ANI or WP:AN look like the way to go. You can always take things back to WP:RFCU and cite the noticeboard thread if consensus action doesn't form. Durova^Charge! 19:01, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Evidence Talk page

Would you care to express your opinion in this matter? [5] I've been asked to remove my comments as inappropriate which is puzzling to me. However, your response would paint a much broader perspective here. --Poeticbent  talk  17:11, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, the suggestion was originally my idea and I've worked well with both Piotrus and with Ghirla. Your evidence statement seems perfectly appropriate to me. Durova^Charge! 18:33, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much. Would you like me to mention in my evidence statement that the idea was originally yours? In fact that was the reason why I approached you in this matter ahead of everybody else. Nevertheless, your opening statement [6] explains it well enough. --Poeticbent  talk  18:50, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

You're welcome. If it continues to be an issue you might follow up. Let's hope my response settles things. Best wishes, Durova^Charge! 18:57, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Evidence or Workshop?

Piotrus asked me today [7] unsure if it wouldn't be better to take my evidence statement [8] from his ArbCom Evidence page and put it as a motion on his Workshop page under the heading "Motions and requests by the parties". [9] I would very much like to get your feedback before that. By the way, I'd like to congratulate you on a wonderful piece of advice you wrote as an essay called "arbitration tips"[10]. I'm sure many of us took it to heart, because I most certainly did. --Poeticbent  talk  03:26, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

If you're talking about making a workshop motion to rename the case, go ahead. Although I doubt a case that's been open this long would really get renamed. Thanks for the feedback about my arbitration tips page. Best wishes, Durova^Charge! 18:54, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I will keep my statement where it is. --Poeticbent  talk  20:18, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Schools

I noticed an old message on WP:ABUSE you left, saying you have contacted some schools regarding vandalism with some success. I had to block a school in one of the jurisdictions where I went to school. I'm interested in contacting them and seeing what the school can do. I'm quite sure they will be responsive, so I'm trying to think of what to suggest they might do. The school has a moderate amount of vandalism, but it's somewhat tolerable (on our end) and not quite as high as other schools. So, I think a school-wide anon only block would not be good. They can probably find out what student is responsible for the latest vandalism incident. If it's just a small number of kids for past vandalism incidents, maybe something more specific can be done without affecting the rest of the school. Though, I'm not sure what could really convince a student to behave while on the computer. Or if some technical restrictions can be in place for specific kids. Or what else they could do? Do you have any ideas or suggestions? --Aude (talk) 00:17, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I have looked through each individual contribution of the school and do see repeat offenders, with similar edits on different days. I think the school could deal with these individual students. I also looked at meta:XFF Project, though don't see any schools listed there. Not sure if that's something they can do. --Aude (talk) 01:47, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, at the risk of repeating information you've already read, what I did was to contact the school's IT department first by e-mail and then by telephone. I gave them some basic coaching on how to correlate edits to student vandals and suggested the school assign these students to improve an article under faculty supervision. Last month I launched a wikiproject that could help with that: WikiProject classroom coordination. Best wishes and let me know how your effort goes. Durova^Charge! 03:23, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I spent some time determining how the school in question (first one on my list) compares with others - User:Aude/schools. Actually, it seems to be one of the better schools, with less volume of vandalism than others. Though, it's still a lot. Many others have been issued 6-month blocks. Since I'm pretty sure it's 1-2 kids responsible for most of the vandalism in March and April (and possibly they have provided their names as part of the vandalism), I think the kids can be tracked down and some more specific course of action taken. I'll see what they can do, and be of assistance. --Aude (talk) 04:16, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Block of ISOLA'd ELBA

Thanks you for your response on this block, but I'm not convinced this is a sock of Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles. I will open a thread on WP:ANI proposing they be unblocked and you are welcome to comment. —dgies^t_c 04:28, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough. I've replied there. Although I'm not hard-and-fast opposed to unblocking, I do think the odds of a productive result are quite low. Durova^Charge! 05:05, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

• I have decided to unblock them. —dgies^t_c 15:37, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up. I hope the unblock succeeds. Durova^Charge! 23:00, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Your view of the MfD of WP:CSN?

User:Ryulong has nominated this noticeboard for deletion. I thought I remembered you were a proponent. (Your name shows up several times in Wikipedia:Community_sanction_noticeboard/Archive6). Will you have a comment to add on the MfD? Thanks, EdJohnston 11:25, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

And here? -- Ben ^TALK/_HIST 12:59, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Actually I was the editor who proposed that board. It's like a view through the looking glass, seeing the statements some Wikipedians who've had next to nothing to do with it are making about why it was established and what it does. Durova^Charge! 14:31, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Please note that the WP:CSN has once again been wiped from WP:BAN#Community ban. Apparently "bold, revert, discuss" now means "boldly delete, and when reverted, boldly delete again without waiting for discussion to resolve the issue". So even while the MfD continues, the policy underlying WP:CSN has been cut out from underneath it. So much for consensus. -- Ben ^TALK/_HIST 15:10, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Let's settle down and deal with this one step at a time. Calmness and patience usually succeeds. Durova^Charge! 15:17, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

The dispute continues at WT:BAN#MFD underway, resume protected version until resolved, despite which the policy has been repeatedly changed without consensus. For all the accusations of "lynch mob" that were thrown at WP:CSN, the repeated change alters policy to authorize roving lynch mobs; one block-happy admin with two yea-saying friends' support in IRC or email could meet the new policy's requirements -- and since no notice need be posted on any board (they "may" be but needn't), all those concerned citizens (who could have watchlisted and monitored WP:CSN) will have no way to monitor these banning discussions, let alone comment on them. This doesn't make anything less "convoluted" or "bureaucratic", it only changes "who decides community bans" from the community to the admins.

That's a major change, a drastic change, in what the "Community ban" section has been since its creation; and it doesn't have consensus, it has been "boldly" made over objections and then repeated after reversions [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] -- which isn't what WP:BRD says to do. -- Ben ^TALK/_HIST 01:30, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Story on Wikipedia

This may stimulate a lively discussion. Jehochman (^talk/_contrib) 12:58, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Persistent vandal

User:69.89.108.5 -- Fyslee/talk 14:33, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Another sysop beat me to it. Best to report at the vandalism in progress board. Durova^Charge! 15:06, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

User_talk:Jimbo_Wales#Community_sanctions_noticeboard

I wonder if I could address some of these points. "no alternate mechanism has been proposed to make partial community sanctions such as topic bans or revert parole feasible"—I'm interested why this particular claim gets spread around so much despite my attempts explain that the CSN did not invent such things, that they can happen as a result of any discussion, and that the ArbCom supporting the community's ability is not the same as the ArbCom endorsing the Community Sanction Noticeboard.

"The principal argument against it seems to be that only sysops deserve any voice in community banning" is a repetition of the same misrepresentation: there is no such thing as a sysop-only discussion and no one has proposed such a thing. That is not the alternative to bureaucracy. It is very clear from my comments that I think the CSN is less representative of the community and consensus.

As for community enforceable mediation (this is what caught my eye), I admit I haven't given it much thought, so I'm curious. How does it work with WP:CSN? But also, how is it different from other mediation? Is there an example of a successful case (or any concluded case, I can't find one)? Dmcdevit·t 22:18, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Your questions span several topics, each of which could be a discussion in itself. And in most instances I have already provided articulate reasons which you appear not to have read. So I'll address this in bullet form.

• Community topic bans and other community sanctions that fall short of full sitebanning are not recorded in an account's block log. CSN makes these useful remedies scalable. By that I mean there's a readily available archive where editors can read up on the topic. This is far more useful than a targeted search tool because it allows editors to research precedents when crafting and discussing new proposals. So, for example, if someone thinks 1RR is the best remedy for a reasonably good editor who descends into edit wars, the CSN archives provide an easy way to check any similar cases that have already been proposed or enacted, as well as the circumstances of each case. By this means CSN fosters a consistent and equitable process that is unlikely to continue if these discussions devolve into larger boards. And as I already noted at the MFD discussion, only a handful of people who recall participating in a specific partial ban discussion are likely to enforce it if these discussions return to the administrative boards. The search tool does allow that tiny pool of editors to justify blocks when they're necessary, but it's pretty much a Lone Ranger approach to enforcement and I'm uneasy about that. I strongly suspect that fewer partial bans would even be proposed at those venues because of these inherent shortcomings to enforcement.
• I have never claimed that ArbCom endorsed the CSN board and to suggest such a thing is a serious misreading of my statements. ArbCom endorsed the community's right to impose partial bans without prejudice as to method or venue. To my knowledge no effective venue for such bans existed before CSN, nor was such a practice encompassed in the definition of community banning that dates from summer 2005, nor has any practical mechanism been proposed that would replace that CSN function if the board ceased to exist.
• I can dig up the diffs if need be, but both at the fall 2005 discussion about community banning and the thread from this past week at the banning policy talk page include explicit opinions that a unified front of sysops can override legitimate community consensus about a community ban. That view has been articulated in extreme terms including a statement that even if 100 editors disagreed with a ban the administrators could be justified in ignoring that collective opinion. The policy language itself gives no explicit role to non-sysops and the current drive to close the noticeboard reinforces the impression that a group of people either want to disempower the general community of Wikipedians or believe that the community was never properly empowered despite several months of de facto action. The current firestorm is a superb case in point for why consensus is not necessarily apparent without discussion: silence is often mistaken for consent when in the opposite sentiment actually exists.
• I fail to understand how you come to regard CSN as either bureaucratic or unrepresentative of community consensus. I and others have taken considerable pains to implement only such community sanctions refinements as made the process robust, fair, and scalable. Each innovation in the process has been proposed for solid reasons and supported by the people who were atively volunteering with these matters. It appears to me (and apparently also to the people who support my position) that both our reasoning and our patient work of many months has been brushed aside by people who formed an opinion in great haste and without adequate attention. I find it particularly disturbing that a significant number of the arguments against it are based upon misreadings of my statements and actions and that these same people ignore my corrections and clarifications when I post them. The concept of featured articles has developed and refined over time; AFD has developed over time; why shouldn't community banning develop along logical lines also?
• Pertinent to the above, all of your questions about CEM are fully addressed at that process page and its talk page. I've even written a FAQ about it for easy reference. Its link is easy to find from the bottom of WP:CEM. And I must add, I find it frustrating and symptomatic of the general problems at this week's discussion that you pose these questions without even a cursory attempt at research. Durova^Charge! 23:56, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I am curious about your opinion of my comments on that MfD, since your objection was a large part of why I found the discussion thought-provoking. Vassyana 00:27, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Some of those ideas have been discussed already and the trend has been to avoid overlapping functions with other boards. In theory I'm not necessarily opposed to new functions that don't duplicate existing venues and I was reticent to accept the renaming from CN to CSN. Thank you for appreciating some of the points I've raised. Durova^Charge! 01:32, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for considering my comments. Your points are usually very easy to appreciate, even when I do not agree with you. Your comments come across consistently as well-thought and reasoned. Be well. Vassyana 06:14, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Your comments on WP:CN

You have stated that "it is counterproductive on many levels to propose sitebanning..." [16]. Actually, I haven't proposed that either Commodore Sloat or Armon be sitebanned. My comment on WP:CN stated, in relevant part, that

I suggest that the article be reduced to semi-protection, and that Commodore Sloat and Armon be placed on community revert probation for a period of three months. They would be limited to one reversion per page per week, except when reverting under the circumstances described in Wikipedia:Three-revert_rule#Exceptions.[17]

I would ask, therefore, that you reconsider your objection. John254 23:44, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Okay I'll refactor, but I strongly recommend that you withdraw your proposal pending the outcome of mediation. Durova^Charge! 23:57, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Since you oppose placing Commodore Sloat and Armon on revert probation at the present time, do you support continuing the page protection on Juan Cole pending the resolution of this dispute, or would you support allowing the community to edit the page, and preventing these users from engaging in further edit warring by some other means? John254 00:10, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Let's let things stand for a few days. I'm encouraging these editors to look toward a larger solution. I've hinted this fairly strongly at the mediation and don't object to stating it here: if they cannot agree on fundamental terms of discussion or preventive measures to contain their dispute administratively, I will probably close mediation and refer the matter elsewhere. I'd rather not pressure them unduly by setting a specific time limit on this matter and I also I understand the desire of other editors to resume progress on the article. Would this solution be amenable to you? Please withdraw the proposal and wait 5-7 days. If progress isn't forthcoming get back in touch with me. My e-mail is enabled if you desire confidentiality. Your comments are also welcome on the mediation's outside input page. Regards, Durova^Charge! 00:44, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Pointers

If the pointers are lasers, sure :) - Penwhale | ^{Blast him / Follow his steps} 01:43, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

I've been impressed with your work in the Wikipedia namespace for a few months now. You've been pitching in at necessary places and generally being levelheaded and cordial. Seems to me that you probably have the right disposition for getting a mop and that you'd seek it for the right reasons.

As you probably know, the community would probably want to see several more months' worth of steady contributions before sysopping you. One thing to focus on between now and then is main space edits. I usually recommend that editors become major contributors to at least one good article before seeking adminship. Quality time in article namespace pays a lot of dividends and it grounds and informs the way you use the tools and participate at discussions. At some point, editors who become heavily involved on the process side of the site without a lot of article space edits usually go off kilter in some way. They'll have a theoretical model in mind that just doesn't correlate with most people's firsthand experience. Durova^Charge! 08:53, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

ImprobabilityDrive

The user has brought up some points on his talk page that make it plausible that he isn't a Gastrich sock. It may make sense to unblock him for now. JoshuaZ 05:59, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

I've unblocked him. I see no correlation timewise between his edits and recent Jason socks. There are other reasons I suspect that he isn't Jason which I am willing to communicate via email per WP:BEANS if you want. JoshuaZ 06:19, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Durova I have opened an RfC. Since you have been drawn in this please voice your comments at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/ImprobabilityDrive. Arbustoo 17:49, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

I'll give that a look and probably a comment. Durova^Charge! 20:33, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Don't bother, I blocked him because Checkuser showed he was a sock of User:StudyAndBeWise. --Akhilleus (talk) 22:42, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Actually, StudyAndBeWise as well as VacuousPoet are both socks of Kdbuffalo, so I'd say ImprobilityDrive is also Ken. KillerChihuahua^?!? 22:48, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

"negative dynamic"=

as posted on the MfD discussion--could you expand on that a little? DGG 21:27, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Apologies for the delay - I've been offline several days. Write me via e-mail if you'd like a fuller description. Warmly, Durova^Charge! 20:44, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Can you help me?

The article Dannielynn Birkhead paternity case is being monopolized by User:Cfvh who continues, in my opinion to usurp the community and go with own agenda. I see it this way:

1. He move the article to an improper name. The case was known as Dannielynn Stern paternity case, however because Birkhead changed the name, Cfvh feels it should be called Dannielynn Birkhead paternity case and changed the name without asking the community.
2. A discussion, current, is going on, yet Cfvh does not wish to wait out consensus and is reverting to fit his agenda, rather than, in my opinion, keep the article accurate.
3. At the time the case was filed, it was not known who the father was, so it is impossible to call it by the now known father's name.

Basically, I'm going to step back, but I appreciate your insight and wanted to get your opinion of what to do. I submitted a 3RR, but was told I was guilty of the same and that Cfvh was not in violation of it. I then called for an RFC and asked all parties to wait for resolution and reverted the article back to what it was, yet Cfvh has again reverted it. Do you think I am at fault? What should I do? Is there a way to get Cfvh to stop reverting until the community can come to a conclusion? Any other thoughts or suggestions are welcome. Lastly, if you know how to communicate better than I do, would you mind being my advocate? I welcome any insight or comments you can lend me or the article. Thanks a bunch! --Maniwar (talk) 00:38, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

I hope this resolved itself while I was offline? Durova^Charge! 20:51, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I wondered what happened...welcome back. I kind of left it alone. If you feel up to it, what would you have done differently, and and do you think I was wrong? I don't think I did, but any pointers you could give I'd appreciate it. No hurry though. Thanks! --Maniwar (talk) 01:21, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I would have gone ahead and opened an article content RFC if I had been in your shoes, and if I had discussed the possibility on the talk page beforehand I would have specified that I was considering article content (so as not to confuse anyone about what type of RFC was intended). Things did get a little testy there. The best approach is usually to help turn down the temperature and open the discussion for wider input. Durova^Charge! 19:42, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

IRC

Do you do IRC at all? If so, you really should be hanging out in #wikipedia-en-admins on Freenode. Leave me an edit with your cloak and I'll add access for you - David Gerard 16:32, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and your SEO spammer LART was beautiful - David Gerard 16:33, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Yuk! Giano 20:33, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the offer, David, but that particular channel is the primary reason why I don't do Wikipedia-related IRC at all. Durova^Charge! 20:32, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Please block ImprobabilityDrive per check user

According to Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/ImprobabilityDrive, ImprobabilityDrive is likely a sock puppet of VacuousPoet who is permanetly banned. Arbustoo 03:22, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

LionheartX

Hi. Have you seen this ANI discussion? You might be interested in weighing in, since you have some history with the user and his blocks. Bishonen | talk 11:14, 6 May 2007 (UTC).

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XIV (April 2007)

The April 2007 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

This is an automated delivery by grafikbot 13:50, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Finally received a reply

I finally received a reply on the Nigel McGuinness OTRS ticket. The reply states that the OTRS ticket was correct because:

• "[The] main reason why the USPTO was deemed a non-valid source for the real name was, that it includes original research (which violates WP:NOR). If we talk about sources, it generally means "sourced to a newspaper article or similar"."

and

• "Further, and unrelated to the issue of sources, why is his real name notable? It appears, that he is anyway widely known by his alias name, so why would anybody want to know his real name and why is it worthy of inclusion?"

In my opinion of this the OTRS database being considered original research is just bizarre to me, how can a publically available source be original research just through its application? Additionally the second part of the "why is his real name notable" ignores that wikipedia is an encyclopedia of knowledge, and biography articles where people are known by aliases that wish to not be known by exist fully. This continues to be an OTRS ticket that applies to no other article on all of wikipedia excluding this single case in which nothing is different about it and every other biography article on wikipedia. Thoughts? –– Lid^(Talk) 09:54, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, it's a bit hard for me to wrap my head around that. Would you like to forward the entire response to my e-mail? Durova^Charge! 17:32, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Dear Durova

Dear Durova, I stumbled upon your userpage a few days ago, and I wanted to tell you that it's beautifully designed, and it even served me to learn the interesting story upon which your username is based. As a side note, I also wished to tell you that I took the liberty of making a few enhancements and improvements to your userpage, but I won't simply change it by myself; rather, I've posted the new version at my Sandbox. If you like it, just copy the code and use it at will; and if you don't well - it's your userpage, and your choice! :) Nice to meet you, and have a beautiful day, Phaedriel - 12:10, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I'm flattered. Durova^Charge! 16:43, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Security questions

Is this user's question (posted to many people) appropriate?

• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Snowolf

Asking someone to reveal information about their password seems very suspicious to me. -- Fyslee/talk 19:32, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

May I answer please :). There reason is here. Hence some people now think that ones with weak-password should not be admin anymore. --- A. L. M. 19:42, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I'll just have to AGF about Snowolf's motives, but whatever the case may be, doing this publicly and expecting public answers isn't very wise, IMHO. -- Fyslee/talk 19:53, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

CEM on Cole

The discussion seems to have ground to a halt; again, we could use your perspective. I believe that the microproblem has been solved, but we have yet to include the information in the article. As for the macroproblem, Armon claimed a couple of days ago that he was thinking about it; it's fine to give him a chance to respond but I don't see the need to hold up the rest of it while we wait. csloat 18:04, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

need help with another user.

hello. i appreciate the time you take to help maintain wiki. i will copy the message that i have sent to wiki on the vandalism post.

Morpheen

user continues to remove valid information from Acid Bath musical page, careless of multiple explanations on the content that wiki contains. an explanation that wiki contains all information (past members, and record labels) of the band. the user continues to edit the page to his views, and to blank his own talk page, in order to remove the warnings, and explanations.

i am not sure where to proceed from this, but this has been continuing for over a month. user states that he simply does not like the past record label of the band, so he assumes it should not be known that the band was signed to it. (that is stated from his talk page, which he continues to blank out)

thank you for your time and i hope you can help me fix this delinquency.

The best thing you could do is to add a reliable reference citation for the disputed information. Featured articles make good examples of how this is done. Here are three examples:

• AC/DC
• Sex Pistols
• "Weird Al" Yankovic

From a Wikipedian standpoint I could call an edit vandalism if the material is properly referenced, but when two people add and remove the same unreferenced passage I call that an edit war. If you're correct then it's time to look up some music magazines or CD inserts and write footnotes. Keep in touch to let me know how it goes. Durova^Charge! 16:02, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Keith Henson investigation

I was working on a simple mediation cabal case [18], when I noticed a serious WP:BLP problem, so I started an investigation [19]. What is the next step? I am thinking about checkuser. Jehochman (^talk/_contrib) 21:06, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I've skimmed the article talk page as well as your mediation and the report. Good work on your part to date. Not sure where WP:BLP fits into the picture, but WP:OWN and WP:COI concerns look serious and obvious. This probably extends to WP:NOR and the undue weight clause of WP:NPOV. How exactly would you justify a checkuser request? Parameters for that are pretty narrow. Durova^Charge! 17:29, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

I tried to find a connection to show that some of these accounts are the same person, but I haven't been successful, probably because the hypothesis is false. I brought this to BLP at first because there was an severe disclosure of personal information, but should probably move this over to WP:COI/N, since that seems to be the primary concern. Jehochman (^talk/_contrib) 18:21, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't see any blocks in the editor's log. From a browse of the account history this looks like a recent flareup of a fairly established (but not particularly active) editor who isn't a single purpose account. Have polite cautions been tried? Persuasion is always the better course when it's possible, and this might very well be a reasonable person. Durova^Charge! 19:35, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Since he isn't engaged in abusive sock puppetry, I don't think he needs to be blocked. I have given polite warnings. According to news reports, he's back in custody for legal issues, so I think we can give this time to calm down. On another note, can you look at this other investigation for a Scientologist who has been making COI edits and pushing POV. [20] People on both sides are causing trouble. If enough of them get blocked, they might eventually get the point that Wikipedia isn't a battleground. Jehochman (^talk/_contrib) 02:37, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Scientology is a contentious subject that has gone into arbitration before. I've left my two cents at the thread. Durova^Charge! 05:22, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Cole CEM

I know you've been away; when you get a chance, we could use your help on the Cole CEM. csloat 03:53, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, my comments and suggestions are at the mediation now. Durova^Charge! 17:07, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Request for help

Hi Durova, can you please read this and fix obvious mistakes. I will also appreciate your comment in improving the article. I need to complete it in next few days and file arbitration case. with best wishes. --- A. L. M. 17:31, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, my keep vote conflicted with MFD closure. I'm not an expert on the subject at hand and partipated in the mediation with considerable trepidation. Arbitration looks like a reasonable step, yet I wonder whether the arbitrators would be bolder than I was. Serious real world controversies dovetail at this topic. Could you separate the site policy issues from the (probably insoluble) religious and political aspects? Durova^Charge! 18:22, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

I do not know that how to do that. It is difficult for me to tell that WP:Profanity is violated based on a Muslim religious believes. Furthermore, pictures drawing were very rare by Muslim artist given that it was against Islam. Hence presenting those very rare pictures in large number and putting them on prominent places in articles is clear violation of WP:Undue weight. I think some non-Muslim (like yourself) after reading the article can present my points in much better way. Hence if you could do some editing then it will be great. --- A. L. M. 14:08, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

I gave my own two cents at the mediation, which was generally sympathetic to your position. Yet I suggest before you go farther you float the idea with at least one member of the arbitration committee. They generally deal with matters that pertain to user conduct and overall the conduct level at that mediation impressed me. Think about any aspects of your request that could be pertinent to arbitration and articulate those angles very clearly. The Committee usually rejects requests that are content disputes. Durova^Charge! 15:39, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Done [21]. Should I contact other members too? Also thinking to contact Jimbo Wales. --- A. L. M. 15:48, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Use your own best judgement. Durova^Charge! 16:38, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Stopping Vandalism

I just spent 50 minutes playing cat and mouse with a vandal, and WP:AIV still hasn't acted on my block request. I guess its time to ask for the tools. What do you think? Jehochman (^talk/_contrib) 04:45, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Done, 24 hour block. Sometimes it feels good to have the tools. Thanks for the heads up. Cheers, Durova^Charge! 04:48, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

This one is using proxies. He's over here now: 142.179.62.0 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Jehochman (^talk/_contrib) 04:53, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I think we are dealing with a black hat SEO who may be using some sort of script. I see a pattern in the edits. My suspicion is that they want one specific reference gone, and are attacking all of them to create confusion. Can we semi-protect the targeted articles, starting with Traffic Power? Jehochman (^talk/_contrib) 05:04, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Am I caught up on the blocks? Keep me apprised; I'm working on a complex investigation with another editor atm. Durova^Charge! 05:05, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Semi-protecting. Give me the full list. Durova^Charge! 05:07, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Blocks are good. Here are the targeted articles. I think he'll be back soon. Jehochman (^talk/_contrib) 05:11, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

• 23:59, 13 May 2007 (hist) (diff) April 1, 2007
• 23:59, 13 May 2007 (hist) (diff) Traffic Power
• 23:58, 13 May 2007 (hist) (diff) One way link
• 23:58, 13 May 2007 (hist) (diff) Barry Schwartz (technologist)
• 23:57, 13 May 2007 (hist) (diff) Rand Fishkin
• 23:57, 13 May 2007 (hist) (diff) Link bait
• 23:56, 13 May 2007 (hist) (diff) Doug Heil
• 23:55, 13 May 2007 (hist) (diff) Big Daddy Google
• 23:54, 13 May 2007 (hist) (diff) Google Image Labeler
• 23:52, 13 May 2007 (hist) (diff) PageRank

All done. Are the fires out? You need the tools, my friend. We have to get you sysopped. I'll find you a barnstar for this work as soon as I'm free from the other task I was working on. Cheers! Durova^Charge! 05:22, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

My watchlist is calm. I was pleased to see other users spontaneously helping out and left them "thank you" messages. Jehochman (^talk/_contrib) 05:24, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

You'll make an outstanding sysop someday, and I hope that day comes soon. Do me a favor please? Write up a summary of this incident and post to WP:AN. The community ought to be apprised of this. A lot of them are very naive about this sort of abuse. Durova^Charge! 05:28, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Done Jehochman (^talk/_contrib) 05:52, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't think "competitor" was the right word, so I changed it to "adversary." Hope you don't mind. Jehochman (^talk/_contrib) 06:04, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

That's fine with me. I was searching for the right wording. Didn't want to get into jargon. Durova^Charge! 06:11, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Shouldn't we have better things to do at 3 AM then this?

No? Oh well :). I've made an offer over on CN, if that account wants to post information and evidence in their defense, plus I've also sent the user a reply to the email he sent me. SirFozzie 07:13, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

It isn't 3 AM in my time zone, and thanks. I'm helping an editor with a complex investigation atm. Took a break to check in on the RFAR. Durova^Charge! 07:15, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh fun. Good luck! SirFozzie 07:17, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Defending oneself in CN discussions

Hello. Firstly, I want to confess to feeling intimidated when speaking to such experienced editors like yourself. Please excuse me if I say anything ignorant or that betrays unfamiliarity with CSN.

The concern that I tried to raise at the RFAR and at CSN is that I feel that editors against whom allegations are made should have the total freedom to defend themselves that is accorded to all the participants in the discussion. It is unfair that all the "claimants"/"prosecutors" should have complete freedom to debate every point and easily rebut every statement someone makes, while the defendant can only respond on his talk page, must depend on the graciousness of others to help him, and is barred from easily rebutting arguments on a point-by-point basis in real-time. It is a big disadvantage in a forum like CSN, where many different points and arguments are constantly being made by many different people. Indeed, points are frequently repeated by new participants who did not read all the discussion.

Though my experience with CSN is limited, my impression so far is that in certain controversial cases, you can get a cacophony of voices on one side of the issue that make it very difficult for the other side to be heard. I am guessing that these objections have been raised before, and that you have good answers to them. If you can refer me to answers written elsewhere that would be fine. Best and thanks, nadav 07:53, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I've posted to the thread there about defense. Basically I agree with you: I'd prefer not to block an editor while discussion is ongoing. Sometimes that's impossible because the editor has no intention of presenting a defense and abuses the opportunity, so arrangements often get made for the editor to post a defense to his or her own user talk page (which blocked editors may still edit). I've attempted to write some right of defense into banning policy but that attempt got overridden by other editors. You're welcome to raise your points at Wikipedia talk:Banning policy.

And please don't feel intimidated about posting to my user page. I'm just an editor who's been around a while and who happens to have the tools. Cheers, Durova^Charge! 08:05, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. I'll start reading tomorrow the lengthy discussion on that page, and will then hopefully repropose a "right to defend oneself" clause (or maybe "privilage," since as you say it should be revoked for abusers). Best, nadav 08:53, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, it's only absolutely revoked in extreme cases. If the editor needs to be blocked we do our best to accommodate a defense within the parameters of the block. Very rarely does the user's talk page need protection, and when that happens there's seldom much to discuss. Durova^Charge! 08:56, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Hi - I haven't been spamming everyone's page with thanks, but I did want to thank you for your nomination and words of support in my recent RfA. The kind words and expression of trust meant a lot, especially coming from editors for whom I have so much respect. I hope to live up to it, and just wanted to say thanks again. MastCell ^Talk 15:28, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Arbitration is as much fun as a root canal, but once in a while something positive grows out of it. Meeting you and supporting your bid for adminship was one of those occasions. Now let me nudge you over to WP:COIN and WP:SSP... ;) Durova^Charge! 19:27, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Arrr...your opinion/input

Can you go to [here] when you have a moment? There was an issue going on long before I visited the page, and by consensus and by various editors, an entry has been deleted. Yet, there is one editor, non registered, who consistently adds it and insists that it be added. The sentence is unsubstantiated, unsourced, and loaded. Any input you can give would be appreciated. I've warned, and warned each editor (whom I believe may be the same person) but they keep being hostile. You can plainly see the history of the conversation, and as stated, editors since February 2006 have been reverting it. Thanks! --Maniwar (talk) 19:25, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Wish you'd come to me before things heated up to this point, but good call about WP:RFC. I've semiprotected for two weeks. This looks like a new editor, even if possibly tendentious, and it's better to explain site standards before going to block warnings. Good luck resolving things. Durova^Charge! 19:45, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Request

Your comments on CN were by and large very reassuring. I did leave a question for you following your last comment that referenced his block log, though, and since the discussion has now been closed by Tony there is no reason for you to answer it. I would appreciate it, however, if you did follow up on it, if you feel it is in the least valid, on the Arbitration page (or on my talkpage, if you so desire). Hornplease 22:18, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Taken by itself, a single violation of WP:CITE would hardly ever be bannable. Certainly that particular instance from PalestineRemembered wouldn't be. For an example of what could be bannable in itself I could pull up details from the Joan of Arc vandal investigation. That other fellow actually self-published his pet theories in an Adobe Acrobat file mocked up to mimic the look of a scholarly journal in order to push his POV OR on Wikipedia.

So for this present case, I think any account that's been blocked for four of seven months is one step away from banning. Maybe if the editor had taken some demonstrably positive step in the interim such as joining WP:ADOPT I'd have given more slack. His defense didn't recognize what I wanted to see, which is that Wikipedia tries to be a first stop for serious research. It's a lot of work to look up an old periodical - microfiche or interlibrary loan - and PalestineRemembered didn't appreciate that aspect of the issue. The POV pushers who deserve banning seldom demonstrate real respect for citation sources or for Wikipedia's readers: it's as if references were nothing more than a way of armoring an edit against assault. Fundamentally, that's not a sustainable way of building an encyclopedia.

If PalestineRemembered wanted to honor a Palestinian perspective there are much better ways of doing so. The most compelling book I've read on the subject is Raja Shehadeh's The Third Way, and of course I've sampled my share of Edward Said. I hope the people who sympathize with that editor's politics do their share to balance articles with solid citations to the best Palestinian authors. We're all human beings and Wikipedia as a project strives to be neutral. Durova^Charge! 06:28, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your long response, which I believe deserves a considered reply.

I don't think it quite answers my concerns, which were about the editor's previous block log, which I see as punitive rather than preventative, but I understand and share your concerns about meticulous sourcing and misrepresentation of scholarship. On this occasion, though, and purely if you continue to be interested, I recommend that you look through this editor's edits, as I did when I first ran across the user yesterday. I have seen more than my share of unpleasant, single-issue POV-pushers in my time - and I maintain that nationalist editors with a sense of grievance are the worst - but this particular editor maintains a respect for such things as edit summaries. Also, unlike most of them, this editor does actually respect sourcing per se, which I fear contributed to his error with the Auckland Star, which as you say is disrespectful of genuine research.

Finally, if I had been blocked for four months out of seven, with really minimal pretext, when I first started - which I suppose even I could have been if I edited in certain articles - then I certainly would not have come back with improved politeness. I would have been convinced that WP was broken. (As it is I avoided logging on for years except when I wished to participate in an extended conversation.) This user came back improved, even if that was not likely given the misapplication of the block; but I did not see anyone offering to adopt him/her, and I am not even certain that it was recommended, or that the user learnt of the opportunity. In the devil-takes-the-hindmost hellhole that is the Arab-Israeli conflict on Wikipedia, I do not think anyone would have bothered, or thought that it was worthwhile. There will, people think, always be another. Hornplease 07:46, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Any blocked editor has the right to request an unblock review. None of these blocks were reduced so I accept them as legitimate. An editor who spends four months under block restrictions has plenty of time to read up on site procedures and policies. I started one avenue myself by founding Category:Eguor admins as a go-to list for editors who think they've gotten short shrift from Wikipedia processes and who don't want to be accused of admin shopping.

So in light of the shift in consensus at WP:CN I've supported arbitration. I still think, to be candid, that it's a fairly simple case. But something that garners this many differing views deserves a full hearing. Durova^Charge! 07:59, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

You're quite right that nobody unblocked. I remarked on that in my first post to the discussion at CN as an example of the validity of the block log as evidence; that was before Fayssal's post made me look more closely at the circumstances of the first two blocks. I should say that if I had been an uninvolved admin, even if I had thought the blocks unjustified, I would probably not have unblocked, and you are a braver man than I if you would have! Thank you for your time and attention.Hornplease 08:09, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, considering that I'm a female war veteran, I'm not sure how to take that braver man than I part. Let's hope arbitration sorts this out to the community's satisfaction. Durova^Charge! 08:19, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Almost certainly still true, as I'm not brave at all:). Hornplease 08:29, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Dear Miss Durova, Wow! You were in a war?! Which one? Are you okay? My daddy was also in the military! It makes ya wonder why people have to keep doing this to each other. Will people ever learn? Joan of Ark question asker below. :) --172.133.120.41 15:05, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Apologies for the tardy reply: I was in the Global War on Terrorism. I joined because my uncle was a 9/11 survivor. Durova^Charge! 19:40, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

COI charges

Your previous statements are being invoked as partial justification for a COI charge here[22], so you may want to let your views be known. Raymond Arritt 17:31, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

I see that's already been handled. Durova^Charge! 19:13, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Re: continuation of WP:ANI

Thank you for your comment, but tell me something:

If a person reports that three Muslim editors are violating WP:BLP on Ariel Sharon page, would that result in a few days of insults such as being called "antisemite", "immune to reason" or being put on "radar screen". Certainly not: that would have been acceptable, and the editors, if they were Muslim, wouldn't have mind that as well. I still can't believe we are arguing over a non-negative term, which from your POV is offensive.--Gerash77 20:50, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

And I find it hard to believe that, despite repeated assurances on my part and actual threads at this talk page where Muslim editors have sought my opinion as a neutral party, you continue to accuse me bigotry. You have no idea what my POV actually is. I strongly recommend you retract these offensive accusations. Durova^Charge! 19:12, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

COIN on Connolley

I posted a second complaint on the COI Noticeboard on Connolley. I expected someone would show up magically like you did last time, but no one has. Is it unreasonable for me to ask you to take a look at Connolley's second offence? It is about the same information, but this time I posted it on the Hockey stick controversy page where other editors said it rightfully belonged. To me this seems an open and shut case, but someone has to make a decision. Will you do it? RonCram 01:00, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

I've already speedy closed this discussion, as it was descending into wikilawyering and wasn't going to lead anywhere productive. --Akhilleus (talk) 01:04, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Akhilleus, you deleted too early. I am certain Durova would have liked to express her opinion since she concluded the first case. I am not certain you even understand the issues. Your comments indicate that you do not. RonCram 01:09, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

RonCram has been highly disruptive. Whether he is right or wrong about the underlying content isn't the point. The COI guideline specifically warns not to use COI allegations to gain the upper hand in a content dispute. RonCram posted voluminous material on WP:COIN to litigate the content dispute, yet he only offered a single diff to substantiate the COI claim. That diff showed WilliamConnolley deleting a statement with a reference link to a .edu URL containing a ~, somebody's personal user space. What was there? A PDF reprint, probably a copyright violation, without any context. There was no way of knowing if this was a peer reviewed article, an advertorial, or an opinion piece. The publication has a website exclusively in Dutch language, so there is no easy way for us to verify anything about the source. Under these circumstances, deleting this questionable material wouldn't be a COI violation for any editor, no matter what their situation. The complaint was filed in bad faith. RonCram persists in his crusade against Connolley, in spite of warnings from three uninvolved, respected editors. My opinion is that RonCram needs to be stopped before he causes further harm to the project, since he obviously is unwilling to restrain himself. Jehochman ^☎ / _✔ 03:20, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

This was not a content dispute. I was trying uphold Durova's earlier conclusion. Connolley has completed disregarded Durova's statements. When I was told I needed to offer more than one diff, I posted four. The pdf I linked to is an English translation from a highly respected Dutch science magazine Natuurwetenschap & Techniek. The English translation is hosted on a website at the University of Guelph where Ross McKitrick is a professor. This is the first time anyone has raised any question about the copyright of the article. Such a question seems absurb on its face, but if that was a serious issue - information about the copyright can easily be obtained from the university. People have made some ridiculous claims that this Dutch science magazine is not a reliable source, but the fact is easy to establish. Go to Google Scholar and search for it or click this.[23] But none of this really matters because these were not the reasons given by Connolley. He knows the magazine is reliable and he knows there is no problem with the copyright. Connolley (and his minions) have attempted to suppress valid information to protect his colleague. RonCram 05:41, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

"I was trying uphold Durova's earlier conclusion." Res ipsa loquitor. Jehochman ^☎ / _✔ 07:37, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Akhilleus and Jehochman are both fine editors and I trust their judgement. I hope I'm correct in inferring from RonCram's requests that both sides of this dispute accept my neutrality. Durova^Charge! 20:03, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

what to do at this point?

Armon still has not bothered to respond or acknowledge the attempts to deal with the microproblem or the macroproblem on the CEM page. Is there any way to speed up the process? csloat 09:40, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Even more troubling -- while Armon refuses to respond to CEM, he has been actively editing, including an extremely tendentious revert on another page in which he and I have been in revert wars in the past. As in his edits that went to CEM, he is deleting sourced and relevant material with cryptic and illogical explanations. I am tempted to restore the material he deleted, but I really don't want to get into another revert war with him. However, I do think this is an important aspect of the macroproblem -- his insistence on deleting sourced and relevant material that he doesn't agree with, often with deceptive or non sequitur reasoning (in this case, his reason for deleting the material is that he says it belongs in a different section. If that is true, why does he not move it to another section instead of deleting it, and initiating a revert war with the editor who added it?) I will reprint this statement on the CEM page so you can respond to it there, as it is relevant to the macroproblem that we need a solution to. csloat 01:00, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm rather close to closing the mediation. Durova^Charge! 18:59, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

What happens after that? csloat 20:58, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Most likely, you'd try to work things out until someone proposes arbitration. I consider it likely the Committee would accept the case. Durova^Charge! 21:16, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

An earlier thread (above)

Due to exceptionally high traffic on your Talk page I’d like to make sure that you are going to take notice of my question above, so I'm posting an extra link to it here. Your input would be very much appreciated. Thanks in advance. --Poeticbent  talk  13:46, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Replied above. Durova^Charge! 18:59, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Triple Crown

Hey. With a DYK under my belt, I qualify for the level one triple crown. Evidence of one DYK, one GA, and one FA taken from the same topic for consistency: [24], [25], and [26]. My userpage has a list of all my GA/FA/FT contribs if you need more evidence or different articles. Oh, and I'm not doing this as a self-nom because I'm an egomaniac; I don't want to make someone nominate me as a formality :) — Deckiller 15:42, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

I wrote "Eyes of the Insane" to GA, and I also wrote Christ Illusion to FA and "Jihad" to FA. As concerns DYK's, here and here are DYK's I'm responsible for. I think this means I qualify for level one triple clown (I hope so), though I'm unsure. Thanks for the time by the way, and happy editing! LuciferMorgan 20:57, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Image:Nikolai pavlyuk lenin in his working room.jpg

Hello Durova, an automated process has found an image or media file tagged as nonfree media, such as fair use. The image (Image:Nikolai pavlyuk lenin in his working room.jpg) was found at the following location: User:Durova/Archive 1. This image or media will be removed per statement number 9 of our non-free content policy. The image or media will be replaced with Image:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg , so your formatting of your userpage should be fine. The image that was replaced will not be automatically deleted, but it could be deleted at a later date. Articles using the same image should not be affected by my edits. I ask you to please not readd the image to your userpage and could consider finding a replacement image licensed under either the Creative Commons or GFDL license or released to the public domain. Thanks for your attention and cooperation. User:Gnome (Bot)-talk 02:30, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/PalestineRemembered

Hello,

An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/PalestineRemembered. Please add any evidence you may wish the arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/PalestineRemembered/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/PalestineRemembered/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, --Srikeit 05:40, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Opinion and advice needed

Hi Durova. There is a kind of complicated issue between my hand. All details are found here at the AN/I MDS International / MDS America conflict bothering Wikipedia. I've done my best but i'd like to get your opinion on the matter and if it is time to go for an ArbCom case directly instead of wasting the community time. Thanks in advance. -- FayssalF - ^{Wiki me up®} 13:32, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Durova. -- FayssalF - ^{Wiki me up®} 19:30, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

I wish I had time for more help than that. But you can always come to me with page protection requests. Durova^Charge! 19:35, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

more from Anacapa

Hi Durova I was just contacted by another user (Jbolden1517) who's been having trouble with Anacapa on Talk:Shunning. Anacapa responded to my question (wherther hey were drop in editor or not) on my talk page with a long off-topic rant abou Maoism. I think there are elements of not assuming good faith in their response, as well as ranting on my talk-page. The words "you SEEM to be blind to the insane bullcrap and inane cowcrap (conservative, liberal or whatever) that prevails in the NAME of NPOV on Wikipedia" sounds like bad faith to me. I aksed Coelacan to have a look but I think she's a bit snowed under at the moment. Am I wrong or is there a case for at least warning Anacapa on NPOV grounds for their edits and WP:NPA and WP:AGF for their comments?

They have also made another traunch of edits to Feminism in the last 2 days - once again to the criticism sections - one particularly interesting bit of phrasing is "Feminist whistleblower, Christina Hoff-Sommers also shows how feminist misandry leads directly to misogyny by establishment feminists against (the majority of) women who love men in Who Stole Feminism: How Women Have Betrayed Women."

I also found a warning that Irishguy gave to one of Anacapa's IPs for POVPUSHing in November '06. I've deatiled it in the the report. Have you any advice on how best to proceed here. Should I respond to Anacapa or just WP:DENY?--Cailil ^talk 17:25, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I think it's appropriate to give an NPOV warning. Thanks for your paitence. Durova^Charge! 19:15, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

You're going to laugh when you read this but ... how should I phrase this warning? I was going to use the {{uw-npov1}} and add the diff and additional text ask Anacapa to "Please take note of the NPOV policy's guide to asserting opinions. Your characterization of the views is not conforming to the policy. I have not reverted your edits as I hope you will rewrite the information in accordance with NPOV" - is that the best thing to do or should I just use the template and the diff? Sorry for the question, I'm just a bit nervous of using the NPOV template--Cailil ^talk 23:09, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

I left it myself. Durova^Charge! 20:14, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Please protect the deer

The Deer article is in dire need of permanent semi-protection. Nearly every other edit is vandalism, and the other one is to revert it. -- Fyslee/talk 20:21, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

I've given it six weeks of semiprotection. Usually we don't make these things permanent. Let me know if problems resume when this expires. Durova^Charge! 20:24, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. It's irritating when everytime it pops up in my watchlist it's a waste of time to check what's going on. -- Fyslee/talk 20:44, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

If this sort of thing happens elsewhere on your watchlist, don't hesitate to ask for page protection. It's a very simple check to confirm the need for protection and any sysop can implement it quickly. Durova^Charge! 20:12, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

New sock of Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles?

You might remember the unblock discussion over ISOLA'd ELBA (talk · contribs), who you thought was a sock of Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles (talk · contribs) while I argued their only sin was handing out too many barnstars (to the wrong people). After unblock Isola continued working on userpage-type activities and also handed out lots of welcome templates, including one to a sock of SummerThunder. Isola recently had a bunch of their user pages deleted on MySpace grounds, but one, User:ISOLA'd ELBA/awards was just recreated by DaGrandPuba (talk · contribs). This person also edits video game articles, so it seems suspicious. I don't know Le Grand Roi all that well so I will leave handling DaGrandPuba to your judgment except to say please be sure before you decide to block. —dgies^t_c 06:13, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Believe it or not, I was coming here to say something to you totally separately regarding this user. If you could take a look at Parma, Ohio: it has an edit war that has been (I kid you not) going on for 1.5 years. It's impossible for me to tell which are sockpuppets of User:Mycroft.Holmes and which are sockpuppets of his enemy (e.g., User:Mycroft.Holmz) (is this Le Grand?). It makes my head hurt just to look at it, but both users have a ridiculous history of sockpuppetry and going anonymous to edit war (e.g., User:Dianestover = User:164.107.223.217, as recent history shows), as well as spelling out their arguments in the edit summaries. This page has such an awful history of sockpuppetry that I'm tempted to bring it before Arbcom just to have them put a 1RR rule on the page or something (yes, I've been watching this page before I had this account, and I've been watching these same antics forever). The Evil Spartan 16:14, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up. I strongly recommend you both support the revival of WP:RFI - too many people post appeals to me directly and Wikipedia loses out when real life keeps me busy. I've had to cut down on my volunteer commitment. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Durova (talk • contribs)

Actually, I've been thinking about that myself. On my previous account (yes, I had one), I actually !voted for deleted. It took about 3 seconds to realize this was bad, as ANI became clogged with reports which were so complex, and which everyone ignored. Now half the stuff on ANI doesn't even get a response. And it's all my fault! The Evil Spartan 20:20, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm very glad to learn about your change of heart. What that board really lacked was enough good editors to keep up with the work. I've been training a team of Wikisleuths since then, a few of whom have gotten sysopped, and hope to revive RFI when we have enough good people to run it. If you run across any promising candidates please send them my way. Regards, Durova^Charge! 21:15, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Templates for deletion#Template:COI and Template:COI2

Shaking my head. People need to spend a few minutes in the trenches before suggesting disarmament. Jehochman ^☎ / _✔ 16:21, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

I've proposed WP:SNOW on the discussion. Deletionists really ought to take a few minutes and ask before putting things on the block. Thanks for the heads up. Durova^Charge! 20:06, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Triple crown

Hi there, when have you set the date for my coronation as the next Tsar of Bulgaria? :) Here's my proof of noble descent:

• DYK: That's easy, I've got something like 20, you can find notifying tags all over my user talk. For the sake of the historical topic, Medieval Bulgarian royal charters may be a good choice.
• FA: Significantly contributed to (a bit like co-wrote) Ivan Alexander of Bulgaria and entirely rewrote Simeon I of Bulgaria.
• GA: Quite humble in that respect, I only have one: Banat Bulgarians. Sadly, I need one more to ascend to the throne of the Bulgarian Empire.

Royal greetings, Todor→Bozhinov 21:40, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Joan of Arc

Hi! I don't know if it's okay to ask questions like this hear as I'm not much of an editor (i dont know what i can add and im not online all that often), but I see that you edit Joan of Arc related articles and so, well, maybe you could help answer a question: we watched a movie in class the other day that implied that Joan of Arc was raped by guards during her trial. It was some older movie, but anyway, I heard elsewhere that she was a virgin, so was this true? If so, that's absolutely horrible! Anyway, I was just curious if you knew. Again, I'm sorry if we're not supposed to ask these kinds of questions or not, but I dint see anything about by taking a quick glance on the article (sorry if its there and I glossed over!), and I was just really curious. I'll check back on your page in a few days to see if you responded, but if not, no big deal, just curious and you seem to be some kind of expert on her, which is cool! :) Thanks either way! :) A fellow Joan of Arc fan! --172.144.16.113 23:21, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure Durova is about just now (I think she's pretty busy offline) but I don't expect she minds you asking questions about articles she's contributed to.

Our article does have a mention of this; it's in the first line of the Execution section. Apparently she was sexually assaulted and may have been subjected to attempted rape.

In future, you'll probably get a quicker response to questions like this from the Reference Desk, in this case the Humanities desk, which takes History questions. I hope this response is helpful - check back here a little later to see if Durova can flesh out my answer with a better explanation. All the best, --YFB ¿ 23:43, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much for the fast reply! Sorry I missed that in the article and that’s really too bad that such a thing would happen to such a strong woman (or to anybody for that matter!). The movie our teacher showed kinda just had a couple guards look at her funny, but you could tell something was up! Well, thanks again! Maybe when I’m older in a few years, I’ll get an account and have something to contribute, ‘cus I think aol gives us new numbers every time we log on otherwise :(. Is there some kind of age requirement for Wikipedia? Is this site safe? I’ve seen some nasty stuff on some other pages . . . Well, gotta run. Thanks again! Still a Joan of Arc fan! --172.133.120.41 15:05, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

The nullification trial that took place a couple of decades after her death has some conflicting testimony about sexual abuse. We can say with certainty that English soldiers guarded her, although normal inquisitorial procedure would have been to use an ecclesiastical prison that would have had female guards. So the opportunity for abuse certainly existed. One nullification trial witness admitted that he had touched her breasts and that, in response, she shoved him away. The point of disagreement is whether the abuse went beyond that level of inappropriate touching.

Part of the context to consider here is political and economic and even military: the English government was financing her trial and the trial lasted far longer than they had anticipated. The Duke of Bedford also delayed offensive military campaigning that season until after her execution, either because his superstitious troops feared they could not win while she remained alive or because too many of his military commanders had been captured the previous year and he planned to lead the troops himself. So the English government pressured the ecclesiastical judges to bring the proceeding to a speedy conclusion. One of the nullification trial witnesses asserted that a serious sexual assault occurred shortly after her abjuration and that the assailant was a high ranking English nobleman. The law prevented them from executing her until she relapsed, so perhaps rape (or its threat or attempt) was one of the tactics used to hasten her death. Durova^Charge! 20:30, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Dear miss (mrs?) Durova, thank you very much for the detailed response!If i ever do get an account and feel competent enough to edit articles when i'm a little older, i'll keep you and yummifruitbat in mind of good wikipedians to ask for help. Enjoy the summer! :) Joan of Arc asker! --172.130.224.152 18:57, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

See, I had a feeling Durova would make a better job of it! :-) By the way, I meant to address the other part of your question. There's no age restrictions on Wikipedia; making an account is free and you can get one at any age - it'll help you to keep track of any questions you ask here or at the Reference Desks, for one thing. Some of our most prolific administrators are in their mid-teens. Wikipedia is probably as safe as many other websites (we ask that minors restrict the information they disclose about themselves for their own protection) but it isn't censored for younger users, so you may come across strong language, nudity and sexual topics. There's a very broad range of subject areas which don't include that sort of content, so if you exercise the same level of caution and common sense as you'd use in other parts of the internet, you can keep away from most "nasty stuff". You don't have to write whole articles or be very knowledgeable about a particular topic to get involved, either. There's plenty of editing tasks (spelling fixes, adding images, formatting and cleaning up vandalism, for example) which don't require any specialist knowledge. We'd welcome your contributions whenever you feel ready. Thanks for your questions - if you have any others (about Wikipedia or anything else, with the possible exception of JoA), you can always ask them at my talk page. All the best, --YFB ¿ 19:18, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks again and I hope you're enjoying the extended Memorial Day weekend! Go Joan! --172.144.146.32 23:29, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Jumping to conclusions, torches and pitchforks

I think we need to emphasize the need to investigate COI and SPAM reports fully before jumping to conclusions. There's a lot of real abuse, so we need to be careful not to mistake ignorance for malice. See this one.[27] Jehochman ^☎ / _✔ 07:11, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Good point. Durova^Charge! 20:07, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

CEM

Hi, Durova. What will happen then? If Tajik would stay be blocked indefinitely, would this mean that both the ArbCom and CEM be closed? Actually, both cases never started. What do you recommend? Am i allowed to continue editing normally from now on? Regards. E104421 08:16, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Additionally, I'd like the status on the CEM clarified, since if CEM is closed, arbitration will proceed. - Penwhale | ^{Blast him / Follow his steps} 19:02, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, CEM is closed. The case request no longer qualifies because of the sockpuppetry. To the best of my knowledge arbitration would go forward, but that's up to the Committee. Durova^Charge! 20:06, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Huh, we lost the last chance to discuss the conflicts. I'd like to thank you for all your patience, help and hard work. I'm rather impressed your willingness to solve the disputes. Thank you again. Regards. E104421 18:13, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Elonka might be able to help with web-related article?

Do you think your friend User:Elonka would be willing to look at Search engine optimization and leave comments at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Search engine optimization? I need more opinions about the reliability of online sources to help overcome the last objection of my friend User:SandyGeorgia. Jehochman ^☎ / _✔ 21:44, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Question about Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles

I'm trying to verify a comment left on Wikipedia:Deceased Wikipedians about Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles. While I've removed the comment pending investigation, could you e-mail me about Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles's status, particularly the block on the account. In particular, I'm trying to determine if the comment at User_talk:Le_Grand_Roi_des_Citrouilles#Message_for_Durova_and_BigHaz is real or tied in with sockpuppet usage. Best, --Alabamaboy 22:07, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

That's very strange; I've semiprotected the deceased Wikipedians list for two weeks. Contact me via e-mail if your question has deeper ramifications. Durova^Charge! 19:02, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

No deeper ramifications. Someone placed a comment about Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles maybe being dead on Wikipedia:Deceased Wikipedians and I was trying to determine the veracity of that. Best, --Alabamaboy 19:24, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Triple Crown

Hi, I've only just spotted your triple crown & wonder if you can self nominate? If so:

• DYK 18 so far - see my talk page recent ones include; Observatory, Bristol, Royal Fort Red Lodge Museum, Bristol & Arno's Court Triumphal Arch
• GA 4 - include Chew Stoke, Chew Magna & Kennet and Avon Canal
• Featured:
  • Articles: Chew Valley Lake, Chew Valley & Mendip Hills
  • Lists: List of Sites of Special Scientific Interest in Somerset, Locks on the Kennet and Avon Canal & Grade I listed buildings in Bristol

If you need more info let me know.— Rod ^talk 09:06, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Dereks1x

Hi Durova. As someone familiar with the Dereks1x situation, I think your input would be useful here. Thanks. · jersyko talk 01:23, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Imperial triple Crown

G'day, greast idea for an award; I'm nominating myself for:

• 17 DYKs (so take your pick - but last two were Omphalotus nidiformis and Actinotus helianthi)
• 2 GAs (Diplodocus - did a whole bunch of editing before it was GA'ed in mid 2006, Kereru)
• a few FAs, but I'll stick with Banksia integrifolia and Stegosaurus as the ones I contributed most to (though I actually nominated neither on the FA list, there its Triceratops and Diplodocus

I can supply diffs etc. if required. cheers, Cas Liber | talk | contribs 05:00, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

CEM on Cole (again)

We could really use your help (again) on the CEM on Cole, on the main page if possible. Am I missing something here? csloat 07:59, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Triple crown?

Does it count if two or more are the same? (I could get through with V. thapsus XD)

• DYK: Common Milkweed ([28])
• GA: Verbascum thapsus ([29])
• F: Image:Hippo skull dark.jpg ([30]) or Verbascum thapsus ([31])

User:tompw apparently think I was a significant contributor in getting List of recordings preserved in the United States National Recording Registry featured, so I guess I only need some work before I can try for an imperial crown. Keep an eye out for Cornus canadensis! Circeus 11:16, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

My userpage

Hi Durova. As you may recall, some time ago you protected my userpage, and I just now realized that this prevents me from editing. Can you please fix this? Burntsauce 21:36, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Actually your user page has been unprotected since last month. Durova^Charge! 20:37, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Possible article?

Is there any rule that forbids this from becoming a regular article/list?:

• Flora and fauna of Greenland

The title can be changed if necessary. Other encyclopedias have such galleries as a resource. Please reply on my talk page. -- Fyslee/talk 07:02, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

On the surface of it I don't see any problem with this. Durova^Charge! 20:38, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

User:Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles

I noticed that you indefblocked User:Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles, he seems very ill and may die soon. Why not pardon all his wrongdoings before and honorably rehabilitate this user as an act of compassion (a man possibly on deathbed, please!), or if he has already died, unblock him posthumously and symbolically? Wooyi^{Talk to me?} 17:34, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Dear Wooyi,

First off, let me apologize to Durova for posting this message on her talk page. I am not trying to evade my block by doing so, but I felt it absolutely necessary to respond somehow to Wooyi as I was made aware of this editor's concerns for me. Anyway, if you see my talk page, I have updated it accordingly to indicate that my health has drastically improved. That's not to say that I don't still have some problems (I can no longer eat nuts, popcorn, seeds, corn, berries, etc. and my stomach doesn't look too good), but I seem to be over the really dangerous problems. I sincerely appreciate your kind efforts and concerns, as you seem to be a really good and kind person, but I do NOT expect to be dying any time soon. I am completely out of the hospital at this point. Thus, if you wish to discuss anything further with me, please do so on my talk page. Again, I'm truly sorry for using an anonymous IP to post this on your page, Durova, as I'm doing my best to avoid creating any new accounts (I have not created anything after the Horace Horatius one) or anything else in the hopes that maybe several months from now you'll give me one more chance as you suggested a month or so ago, but I wanted to save you and Wooyi unnecessary trouble on my account as I should be okay. Again, your concern and efforts are admirable and really touching and I feel bad to have to use a friend's computer to reply and I hope doing so in this circumstance won't anger Durova too much, but I hope that this clarifies my situation and wish you all a pleasant day. Sincerely, Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles. --172.145.228.116 18:32, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

This is egregious. Le Grand Roi, not only are you trying to evade your block, you actually have evaded it by posting to this page. You ought to have used e-mail. This recent bit about Category:Deceased Wikipedians and some supposedly grave illness means nothing more than last fall's stunt about that supposed six week business trip you claimed to be taking last fall while you actually started that black hand sockpuppet and edited through the Ohio State University IP address. Your credibility is nil. In response to this attempt to abuse the good faith Wikipedians might extend toward a legitimate illness I am doubling the schedule for my offer of reinstatement: stay off Wikipedia for eight months, starting today, and I'll consider unblocking you. If you violate this offer you can restart that calendar from the date of your next edit and set it to one year. Durova^Charge! 20:35, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Duvora, please reconsider your apathy. A person is physically ill and may die at any moment. Let's at least offer some consoling measures, please. Wooyi^{Talk to me?} 20:38, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

We assume good faith in absence of evidence to the contrary. This person has consistently lied - that strong word is accurate here - and long ago squandered any credibility. Per Le Grand Roi's own admission at this thread, the "condition" (ahem) is considerably better now. I believe a few weeks ago he or she claimed to be dead? Move along, nothing to see here. Durova^Charge! 20:50, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

he/she didn't claim to be dead...as a dead person can't talk unless you are a psychic. The user said he/she was very ill and may die in his/her talk page post. And now it may be better but still... You know, compassion toward the sick and suffering is always important in any societies. Wooyi^{Talk to me?} 22:24, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Submissions for Review

Look, somebody is using my talk page as a precursor to Wikipedia:Submissions for Review (WP:SFR) Jehochman ^☎ / _✔ 18:22, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand this? Durova^Charge! 20:17, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

We were discussing the possibility of a new notice board. Somebody came to my talk page and asked me to review material for addition to the encyclopedia. Obviously there is a demand for this service. Now, how do we take care of that? Jehochman ^Talk 23:06, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

My RfA

Hi Durova. I'd like to thank you for your support of my RfA. It was closed at surprising 75/0/0, so I'm an admin now. MaxSem 22:41, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Imperial Triple Crown application

Hey, I'd like to apply for an Imperial Triple Crown. Here are my credentials:

• Did You Know Articles
  • Standard Oil of Kentucky — November 26, 2006
  • Gettysburg Cyclorama — May 8, 2007
• Good Articles
  • NFL Playoffs — February 22, 2007
  • Gettysburg Cyclorama — May 24, 2007
  • U.S. Route 40 — May 26 2007
• Featured Articles
  • Timeline of chemistry — April 12, 2007
  • New England Patriots seasons — April 21, 2007

I have 3 GA's because I didn't know if you needed 6 distinct articles, and Gettysburg Cyclorama was both a DYK and a GA, so I waited until I had 6 articles to qualify. Thanks a bunch for managing this program. I know people poo-poo things like Barnstars and this, but I think that recognition programs are beneficial and you do a great job. Later! --Jayron32|talk|contribs 00:55, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much for submitting that. My Wikipedia time is at a premium right now but I'll get around to those triple crown awards shortly. Cheers, and keep making those great contributions! Durova^Charge! 20:19, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

(Holds hand up and fidgets) - don't forget Circeus and me :) cheers, Cas Liber | talk | contribs 03:49, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Don't mean to be pushy, because you DO do very important work here at wikipedia, but it looks like triple crown appilcations are getting backlogged. There's half a dozen or so on your talk page. Again, thanks for all you do! Just don't want you to forget about us! --Jayron32|talk|contribs 19:28, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Amazing Facts RFC

I began an RFC on this article. I would welcome your review of the dispute. If you are an sda however please say so upfront. My opponent has been questioned on other sda articles about his bias. I can't see how he can complain if I quote Amazing Facts itself. Thank you.70.108.103.178 02:07, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

So far the RFC is just myself and maniwar. He seems determined to make sure his POV prevails. The article is now looking more like a tool for proslytizing. He has been accused of POV on sda issues before by others. How can more people participate in the RFC? We need someone who is not an sda to take a look at it.70.108.103.178 03:25, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

I wish you would stick to the issue, you continue to lash out at me and personally attack me. I am asking you to deal with the issue and again refrain from coming after me. I encouraged you to call for rfc, which you did. Had I been POV, I would not have cared and would not have informed you, several times, to call for rfc. Additionally, this one sentence you want in, has been deleted by numerous editors, for over a year now for many reasons. As far your accusation that I am charged with POV by other editors, you will quickly see that those issues were resolved and the editor who called me POV, was banned a couple times for different reasons, mainly his POV. So, do not fabricate. I again, say, focus on getting others to comment and leave me out of it. Focus on learning how to edit in wikipedia, and also go to wp:rfc and ask them to comment if you want others to give input. No one is commenting, see my note to you on the article's talk page, because you have not posted in the proper places asking for comment. Anyway, happy posting. --Maniwar (talk) 00:58, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Yet another Anacapa IP

Hi Durova, I hope you're keeping well. I've just spotted another new IP being used by Anacapa: 128.111.95.45 has made the same type of POVPUSH edits to the Project Gender studies talk page. The IP is in Anacapa's range, it is in Santa Barbara, CA (like the others its from University of California, Santa Barbara) & its using the same language and style as Ancapa to edit. Below are some examples of the POVPUSH on May 27th & 28th:

Tagging Project Gender studies as POV again [32]

On Project Gender studies talk page [33]

about Project Gender studies on Project reform [34]

On Gender studies[35]

POVPUSH on Sex differences[36] "sections relating to gender-feminist propaganda about gender-differences that are both POV and have nothing to do with sex differences. This confusion is what feminists have been banking on for political power plays as they pervert and the meaning of both terms."

same again on Talk:Antifeminism[37] here 128.111.95.45 answers comments made to 128.111.95.237 (an Anacapa address).

Since you warned Anacapa's account this is third POVPUSH by this editor. Is it time to consider making a report to WP:AN?--Cailil ^talk 22:20, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Hi Durova, you might want to look at this post by Anacapa. They used IP 209.129.49.65 to make it, which is an IP thay have previously used for months, it's also clear from the text that it is Anacapa making the post. It was made after their comments below but before your reply.

The post was to talk shunning, and its basically a soapboxing statement.[38]

Some editors on wiki gang in parochial interests groups to censor, silence and slander editors who are 'problematic', politically incorrect or otherwise 'difficult' for the gang to control. This is the kind of conduct one sees in totalitarian tyrannies. Shunning is likely to build the reputation wikipedia already is gaining as a place where Maoist mobs rule.

Maybe I'm being harsh but isn't also a personal attack and a serious breach of WP:AGF?--Cailil ^talk 16:30, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Matrix17

Hello. You just unblocked this user in a seemingly drive-by fashion with apparently no discussion with anyone. I am just checking that you are, of course, aware that this user was blocked for a little more than just creating one article and that the block was revisted on ANI a week ago, where unanimous opinion was that she should stay blocked? – Steel 19:04, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I explained this situation to Durova and left it up to her to decide what to do. The user was blocked upon a faulty assumption. Then an unblock request was declined without explanation. Yes, this user has a history of problems. Hopefully they will take Durova's advice and join WP:ADOPT. If that fails, and you feel the user needs a community patience ban, please follow the necessary steps.

I don't think this discussion is a consensus, because it didn't address the issue of the article surviving AfD. That issue was finally raised here, but the discussion was deleted before anyone had a chance to comment. To me, this seems fundamentally unfair, which is why I investigated and reported this incident to Durova. Jehochman ^Talk 19:45, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

What about this discussion where you yourself said "I am fine with the above resolution. Steel, thank you for blocking the sock"? – Steel 19:49, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm an admin trainee. I reported the facts to Durova and she made the final decision. Jehochman ^Talk 19:53, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I see. So, you told Durova about the above discussion and she went against that? – Steel 19:58, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

No, I did not show that thread to Durova, because it occurred after I emailed her my report. She was away for a few days. Sorry, I am monitoring a lot of things around here, so I don't rely on memory, and I did not see that discussion when I went back through the record and gave her a second update. Are you feeling upset about this? Jehochman ^Talk 20:08, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I am not so much upset about someone reversing a block which wasn't even mine. Rather, confused that the person did so against consensus, without discussion and without full information. – Steel 20:11, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

The only harm I've done is to occupy a few minutes of your time. Sorry for that. The block can always be restored, but shall we wait a little bit to see if Durova has thoughts? We don't know what investigating she may have done, or what her reasoning was. If Matrix17 steps out of line in the meanwhile, feel free to reblock. Durova specifically stated this in her comments to me. Jehochman ^Talk 20:25, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I reblocked Matrix upon learning that Durova wasn't informed of the most recent ANI dicussion and so probably wasn't aware of this. This can, of course, be reversed if necessary, but perhaps after Durova explains her reasoning which is currently elusive and not obvious. – Steel 20:35, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Actually I was aware of the ANI discussion from last week. On a purely technical level I can't justify keeping an editor blocked for six months for creating a "non-notable" biography that turned out to survive AFD. I thought that reasoning was clear from my post and, to my knowledge, no other putative violation had occurred since the expiration of the previous block. I have no intention of wheel warring, however, so how about a middle ground of restoring editing privileges if Matrix17 enters WP:ADOPT?

BTW: in future, please contact me directly before reversing my actions based upon assumptions about how much I know. I believe WP:AGF requires you to suppose that I have adequate information. The onus shouldn't fall upon me to refer to or disclose e-mails, since that could compromise sensitive discussion. Durova^Charge! 23:28, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Olive branch

Actually all AGF requires me to do is assume that you're acting in what you see as the best interests of the project, which I have never questioned. Also, I did contact you directly; this is your talk page.
Incidentally, I didn't reblock matrix immediately - I only did that after Jehochman above indicated that he didn't inform you of the most recent ANI discussion. I don't think it was unreasonable to assume that you were therefore unaware of it given your relative inactivity over the past few days.
On a lighter note, contrary to popular belief I have no serious objection to Matrix being unblocked. I hope you appreciate my concern, however, when a drive-by user emails a totally uninvolved admin and she unblocks against consensus. If you or someone from WP:ADOPT is willing to keep an eye on Matrix, great, unblock. – Steel 23:53, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately my online time is minimal and the unblock happened before I had a chance to respond to your post. I'll leave a note at Matrix's user page about the program. The ball's in his or her court. Regards, Durova^Charge! 19:29, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the inspiration

Your WP:CN inspired me and several other editors to create a Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard. Any advice how to advertise it and streamline its operations would be much welcomed.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  01:44, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Libelous warning

You sent an unspecific warning about POV problems to me. This is a cheap shot unless you provide some sort of specific and constructive criteria for your concerns. I work on loaded issues where politicized mob ideologues make the rules. To take issue with mob POV is no cause for concern here. If you have genuine POV concerns please offer them. Otherwise please spend your time tackling the truly ugly personal cheap shots that people use against people like me who bring in content that counters the credulous content that prevails on a Maoist Mob rule encyclopedia. I suggest you read Fast Company's cover story on Jimmy Wales and his proud red bandana to see that I am (as usual) sourcing my pov's. Anacapa 02:22, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Cailil has provided an excellent and amply documented report. Bear in mind that your post treads on the margins of a legal threat, which I am choosing to treat leniently. Your speculations about my political leanings make me chuckle: it's no secret at Wikipedia that I'm a United States veteran of the War on Terrorism. When I see red bandanas I think Bloods, not Maoists. Durova^Charge! 23:01, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Triple crown stuff

Nobleeagle (talk · contribs) (retired)

• Cricket World Cup - FA
• Indian cricket team - GA
• Vikram Singh - DYK

Hesperian (talk · contribs)

• Banksia brownii, Banksia integrifolia, Banksia epica, Yagan - FA
• The Atlas of Australian Birds - GA
• Tryal Rocks

Moondyne (talk · contribs) - see User:Moondyne/contributions

Nishkid64 (talk · contribs)

• Samuel Adams - FA
• Lee Smith (baseball) - GA
• What's the Story - DYK, many others

Idleguy (talk · contribs)

• Kargil War - FA
• Atlantique Incident - GA
• Yusuf Adil Shah - DYK

There are likely heaps more.....There are many guys who just skip GA and go straight to lots and lots of FAs, eg Nichalp, Rama's Arrow, PDH etc, all of whom have many DYKs also. Blnguyen (cranky admin anniversary) 03:14, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Admin coach

Hey, I saw your post on the Wikipedia:Admin coaching/Requests discussion page and it looks like you might do some interesting work here on WP. I'd be very grateful if you'd let me know what all it entails. Thanks--Helgers7 12:17, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Glad you've dropped by! I specialize in complex investigations, doing my best to keep Wikipedia free of manipulation by ideological or profit-driven editors. A summary of one of my cases is available at User:Durova/Complex vandalism at Joan of Arc.

This week I'm just keeping my head above water. If you'd like to plunge in then paddle over to WP:COIN or WP:SSP and start looking into the requests. Most of the time these things are pretty straightforward, but there's no telling when they'll get really interesting. Durova^Charge! 23:14, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Talk Page Vandalism

An editor erased 30% of your talk page so I reverted it to keep things in order for others who may wish to comment. Jehochman ^Talk 15:48, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

And that editor is, in all likelihood, a sockpuppet of a banned user. I'll describe why offline if you like. Durova^Charge! 23:03, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

If you like. Somebody was defending him on my talk page. Jehochman ^Talk 23:35, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Happy News

Search engine optimization . SandyGeorgia was extremely helpful. Thank you for the motivation. Jehochman ^Talk 04:21, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations! Durova^Charge! 19:26, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank You

Thank you and Armedblowfish will adopt me when he fixes the problems with his server. -PatPeter 19:37, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

You're welcome. I have a standing offer to any formerly banned editor that I'll award the Barnstar of Resilience for starting a new article that gets highlighted at Template:Did you know?. If you'd really like to thank me, go earn that barnstar. Happy editing! Durova^Charge! 19:44, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

WP triple crown

I just found User:Durova/Triple crown winner's circle when I submitted John J. Bernet as a DYK suggestion today. I think I've got the necessary requirements for this recognition.

DYK

• American Car and Foundry; 2004-12-03
• Bourbonnais train accident; 2005-01-29
• Ralph Budd; 2005-02-24
• Pioneer Zephyr; 2005-02-26
• Matthew Baird; 2005-04-21
• Franklin B. Gowen; 2005-03-06
• John B. Jervis; 2005-03-11
• Iowa Interstate Railroad; 2005-05-25
• William Barstow Strong; 2005-06-03
• Cyrus K. Holliday; 2005-07-06
• Ginery Twichell; 2005-07-17
• Timken 1111; October 2005
• El Gobernador; 2006-01-23
• Scott Special; 2006-05-13
• California Southern Railroad; 2006-07-12
• There have been others where I did not get a notice on my talk page.

GA

• Dakota, Minnesota and Eastern Railroad; 2005-10-23
• Scott Special; 2006-05-12
• California Southern Railroad; 2006-07-23
• There have been others that have since been delisted, but these three remain on the GA list today

FA

• John Bull (locomotive); 2004-12-21
• Franklin B. Gowen; 2005-03-19
• Pioneer Zephyr; March 2005
• Rogers Locomotive and Machine Works; 2005-10-27

Featured Portal

• Portal:Trains; 2006-01-04

My article creation rate has slowed as I work through Category:Unassessed rail transport articles, and update Portal:Trains, but there will definitely be more on the way. Thanks. Slambo (Speak) 14:10, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

User:Hotpotatoes

He created his account at 12:56 pm Eastern (9:56 your time), and his only edit is to the community ban discussion on Anacapa. I smell a sock ...Blueboy96 17:29, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Put in a Checkuser request--he's already been blocked, but want to cement it.Blueboy96 21:27, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

 Likely. C'est fini, je pense.Blueboy96 22:52, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

The enforcement part of CEM

Hi Durova - please see my last comment on the [CEM] from about a week ago. Is there any actual enforcement to the community enforceable mediation? Will there be any consequences to Armon's stalling of the process, or incentive for him to continue it? It really seems ridiculous that we are still stalled months later on minor wording issues in the "microproblem" or that he has not even had to take seriously my comments and propositions regarding the "macroproblem." I realize the debate seems tedious, but it affects a lot of the other articles as well (currently MEMRI, but I have been reluctant to edit on any Middle East-related topics as a result of this). I hope there's something that can be done other than simply throwing up our hands and saying the mediation was a failure. csloat 19:18, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

user page

Hi - how can I get this user page changed? This user, I believe, is another sock of Dereks1x, but he seems to have left so I am not pursuing it at this time. But I don't think I should have to put up with this wording on his user page. Thanks Tvoz |talk 22:59, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Non-free use disputed for Image:National Front.gif

This file may be deleted.

Thanks for uploading Image:National Front.gif. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read carefully the instructions at Wikipedia:Non-free content and then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our Criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:15, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

COI Templates.

Hi, I'm sending you a message because of your involvement with the Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion/Log/2007_May_18#Template:COI_and_Template:COI2 discussion. The result of the TfD was no-consensus, but there was a significant expressed consensus for editing the templates to bring them into line with good practice. Unfortunately this has not happened, and the templates have been left pretty much in the state they were before the TfD. Would you like to assist in bringing these templates in line with good practice? --Barberio 16:41, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

If I had more time I'd be glad to help. Try posting a request at the talk page of WP:COIN. Durova^Charge! 23:29, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Hello

Hello. I'm thinking of using Wikipedia:Community enforceable mediation but for the mediation to work, we need a mediator who is willing to involve himself/herself, review all the evidence, and make a final remedy decision. Would you like to be that mediator? I'd really appreciate it. If you would like more information please feel free to ask. Thanks.Hajji Piruz 00:39, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks very much for your interest in the program. Offline business is taking up most of my time these days. I suggest you talk to Navou. Best regards, Durova^Charge! 02:58, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks.Hajji Piruz 14:25, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Mop handling coaching

Ya, I was hoping to get some pointers on how to handle a mop, should I actually be given one. Pointers please? :D - Penwhale | ^{Blast him / Follow his steps} 11:23, 7 June 2007 (UTC) (as in, can you give me a few more tips apart from what you had above? Finals overwhelmed me.)

It will probably be a couple of weeks before I have time. Hope you can be patient. As you can see above, even my triple crowns are backlogged. Durova^Charge! 20:32, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Unblock user

Matrix17 has been blocked against your will by steel again. And matrix17 really doesnt deserve to be threated this way ´he contributes to wikipedia in a nice way. Please unblock user. Have a nice wikiday...

I'll presume this unsigned comment from a throwaway account is either Matrix17 or a meatpuppet: actually I didn't reblock you. Another sysop did that. We've agreed to unblock you again if you join the WP:ADOPT mentorship program, which you can do by cutting and pasting a template to your user space. You can post to your own user space during the block. When you find a mentor, send them my way and I'll take care of the unblock. Best wishes, Durova^Charge! 23:27, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Matrix17's talk page is protected so he or she can't edit it. Vints 06:20, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Isarig's comments on csloat/armon

Please feel free to refactor my comments there, as is your wont, if you feel them to be unproductive. From my vantage point Isarig's contribution to that mediation effort is anything but productive and I responded to them as I believed appropriate. However, I know that another new voice coming in can often further complicate this kind of process so I apologize if my comments do so. Unless they become decidedly more productive I'll be ignoring Isarig's further posts, so please excuse me if I don't respond to whatever issues he might raise in posts containing insults or personal attacks. Honest thanks! -- User:RyanFreisling @ 23:16, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Please note that Isarig (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has been modifying my comments on the mediation page by inserting his comments inside my own([39], [40]), reverting despite my repeated objections. I see it as a disruptive act on his part - one which I've asked him twice not to repeat. -- User:RyanFreisling @ 02:32, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Triple crown winner's circle

Do you take nominations for this? Or is this just something you award people as you stumble upon them? -RunningOnBrains 01:08, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Alright, as I did not bother to read the rest of your talk page first, I'd like to nominate both myself and User:Thegreatdr. Both I and he have two FA's and multiple GA's and DYK's. -RunningOnBrains 01:19, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Could you list the specific articles for those nominations? Thanks for your interest (I'm trying to catch up with the triple crown backlog atm). Durova^Charge! 23:24, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Brunei

Hey, what's Brunei like to visit? yalbik 05:43, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Very hot, very humid. Typical rain forest climate. One of the world's few absolute monarchies. Traditionally the people live in villages by the rivers. Some still do (see Water Village (Brunei)). An old local saying is that they'll never set foot on land until they're buried in it. The Sultan hasn't been able to persuade them to move so he's given them electricity, schools, a mosque, and a hospital on the main water village. I visited it by water taxi and sampled the local tea and pastries.

In other areas where flooding destroyed smaller villages the sultan built new villages with first world architecture and amenities (and that particularly remind me of California stucco housing developments). When the villagers resisted moving the sultan gave them the homes for free. The country doesn't have much private enterprise becuse the sultan is a generous employer, but at the current rate of drilling they'll run out of oil in about twenty-five years.

Fortunately, while the oil money lasts, they've had no need to damage their environment and nearly 90% of the country remains virgin rain forest. The country is on the island of Borneo, the only place in the world where orangutans live. When someone asked about a zoo our guide pointed to the window and smiled. "Our whole country is a zoo." So I didn't get to see the orangutans, but I supppose the orangutans weren't especially curious to see me. I've got a few other anecdotes about the place that are probably better to share by e-mail. Durova^Charge! 20:58, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Triple Crown eligibility

If I remember correctly, you mentioned that the good article could be the same as the featured article if these steps were accomplished sequentially. If so, I have search engine optimization as my WP:GA and WP:FA, and Mahalo.com as my WP:DYK.Jehochman ^Talk 15:24, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

User:Durovina

This user copied to his/her user page part of my own userpage, claiming that she/he uploaded images that he/she did not. Do you think it's appropriate? --Ghirla^-трёп- 14:06, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't like the strange comment on this user's page, or the very peculiar list of user edits, including lots of page moves. This looks like a sock of a banned user. Reported at WP:ANI. [41] Jehochman ^Talk 14:25, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

I see, thanks. Durova^Charge! 20:59, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XV (May 2007)

The May 2007 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

This is an automated delivery by grafikbot 14:43, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Imperial Triple Crown nom

Hello, I'm here to claim the second round.

• DYK: There are a lot to choose from at User:Howcheng/DYK, but I'll go with the latest one: Edward F. Boyd.
• GA: I now have four under my belt. We used Rancho Camulos last time. Let's go with the related topic Ramona.
• FP: I believe Image:Crops Kansas AST 20010624.jpg has not been submitted yet.

Thanks. howcheng {chat} 23:40, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

An old friend?

Check this out. --Akhilleus (talk) 22:47, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

vandelism on Madison West High School entry

I believe Shmoogle728 has vandalized the Madison West High school wikipedia entry. Look at the user's edit to the Strongest Man Competition, and then the claim about this person being a freshman at Madison West High School.

request for a dispute clarification if you would agree on an informal procedure

Greetings, I've found your posts in talk section of user http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Cailil, so I believe you might be able to solve the situation here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Lost_Angel "personal attacks on User:Edgarde" section (last one there).

• Situation is: - I got a warning which I don't agree with at all and my posts in discussion sections are constantly stalked and scrutinized by this user.
• I would like to request your supreme intervention to pull the warning and encourage the user to stop stalking and scrutinizing my posts.
• more information is in the body of the message in question - I have an arbitrary court hearing form filled up, so please read it for clarification.

Thank you and sorry for taking your time with this.Lost Angel 14:41, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Inquiry

In your view, Kent Hovind- yes or no to allowing courtesy deletion if he requested it? JoshuaZ 21:04, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Just butting in here.... Hovind may be violating NPOV by suggesting deletion. He seems to be the victim of the Law of Unintended Consequences, which applies to all articles and all subjects, regardless of who started the article. He has no say in the matter now, other than to correct actual libel. If we allow people to cover-up their misdeeds by deleting uncomfortable articles at their request, we are aiding and abetting misuse of Wikipedia. We often think of Wikipedia being misused to promote a person or damage a person, but it also works the other way around if we allow the person to control what is written about them. As long as it isn't libelous and is well sourced, we should keep it. IMHO. -- Fyslee/talk 21:47, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi...keep up the great work and keeping this mess straight.

Thank You

It looks like my Request for Admin has closed successfully at (58/8/2). Your support is a thing I'm very grateful for. I consider it my duty to try to live up to the trust that you and others have shown in me. And regarding our discussions, trust me, I will definitely be thinking things several times over before I actually do things! I won't bother you with the details now, since you have a lot on your plate (shoot me an email if you have free time), but I realize even more than ever, that an ill-considered word or phrase can be a very very very bad thing. If I end up being half as good as you with this kind of thing, I think I'll be a credit to Wikipedia. SirFozzie 18:13, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations! I think you'll do fine. Best regards, Durova^Charge! 16:55, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Replacement Jane Austen Article

I am researching and writing a replacement for the main article on Jane Austen. I've substantially finished the "Life/Works/Criticism" sections (you can see from the outline where I plan to go from here). I believe that it is both customary and good manners to invite comments and constructive criticism before I make a wholesale substitution. You've been at least somewhat active in commenting on the existing article.

The replacement article may be found here: Replacement Jane Austen Article

Please review it and leave comments on the talk page of the original Jane Austen article or on the talk page of the replacement article. I plan to travel for the next week or so but will collect comments and respond when I return. Simmaren 21:26, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm so glad to see this article getting the serious attention it deserves. I'm not any expert on Austen biography or criticism so I'll defer to other editors on the specifics. My first impression is that you're doing fine work and I'd love to see it uploaded. Durova^Charge! 17:07, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Message recieved with Durova's signature, but posted by another user

I received a message on my user page (not my talk page) today from the user Person24, however the message had your signature at the end. The message itself was also very odd, stating that "this" IP address has been blocked for violations of WP:POINT. I removed the message (mainly because it was posted in the wrong place), but an archive can be viewed here: [42]. Note that the "J" in "June" is lowercase, meaning the signature may have been manually created by Person24. I left a message on Person24's talk page about the post and am currently waiting for a response. I believe the message may have been a personal attack in response to a message that I left on the user's talk page about image uploads. –Dream out loud (talk) 21:42, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually that was cut and pasted from an IP address block I imposed on 6 April. That IP hasn't edited since then so I didn't reimpose a block there, but it's a safe bet they're the same person. In all likelihood he or she has used other sockpuppets. Since Person24 is now blocked indefinitely for impersonating me, you're welcome to request a checkuser if you think the person has come back on another account. Thanks for the heads up and best wishes. Durova^Charge! 16:54, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

NPA/"Attack Sites"

A while ago I proposed mediation for conflicts on the (currently protected) NPA policy page having to do with the inclusion of "attack sites" proscriptions: Wikipedia_talk:No_personal_attacks#Mediation_request_proposal. While most of those on the "individual judgment/context-sensitive issue" side of the debate have indicated interest in doing this, most of those on the absolutist side (with the exceptions of ElinorD and SOPHIA) have not. I proposed this before I had never heard of "community enforceable mediation," which, if it is implementable, seems like the kind of approach this conflict needs... if "the community" can get those involved in the debate to come to a sticking agreement of some sort, rather than continue edit warring the issue(s) to death.

Before I read about this, I was thinking of starting a formal mediation request once NPA became unprotected and then compelling the revert warriors to undergo it, but i don't know if this would be feasible either. Either way, anything is worth a shot, as the reams of discussion so far only seems to have left people more entrenched, and a refereed debate may at least keep the NPA violations down on the NPA page. Is CEM the right approach? Please advise. Thanks, —AL ^FOCUS! 05:41, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Be aware that CEM is an experimental process. Go ahead if you'd like to try it. It's designed to be a low key alternative to arbitration. Durova^Charge! 16:46, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

BLP

Thank you for your comment. I guess I consider the current deletion process an inappropriate venue for discussing issues like this. To me, the question of whether an individual merits an encyclopedia article is completely separate from the question of whether he or she wishes the article to exist. If an AfD discussion ends roughly split about whether or not the individual merits an article, then perhaps it is best to consider the individual's wishes. But if half of the people commenting believe that the individual merits an article, but the other half believe the article should be deleted because of the subject's wishes, then there really isn't a disagreement about whether or not the subject merits an article, and taking the subject's wishes into consideration isn't as appropriate because there is strong consensus about whether the individual merits an article.

If, for example, an AfD ended with, say, 50% of people voting "keep", 25% voting "delete" because they don't think the individual merits an article, and 25% voting "delete" because of the subject's wishes, then what we have is 75% of the people believing that the individual merits an article, 25% believing that the individual does not, and 25% believing that the individual's wishes are most important. Even though 75% believe that the individual merits an article, the "keep"/"delete" ratio is 50-50, and the closing admin, under BLP, should consider the individual's wishes, which only 25% of those voting felt were relevant.

If we want the individual's wishes to be a reason for deletion in and of itself, we should say so. And if that were the case, then I think the closing admin shouldn't be able to take the individual's wishes into consideration, because the people voting already would have. That is, I think there's a difference between a "keep"/"delete" split and a "keep"/"delete per the subject's wishes" split. The former represents a lack of consensus about whether the individual merits an article, at which point maybe the subject's wishes should be considered, but the latter represents a lack of consensus about whether the individual's wishes should be considered in the first place. I'm not really addressing the more morality-oriented points you made at my talk page because I think that's an entirely different discussion from anything that should be relevant to AfD or DRV. If we are to consider those issues, I think we should be doing so at a different forum, perhaps something like WP:OPTOUT. Right now I don't think our policies on this whole issue are as thought out as they need to be, especially with the volume at which the questions have started to be raised. --Maxamegalon2000 22:09, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Hard to find one you don't have already

		The Surreal Barnstar
		For resolving complex BLP issues, including the deletion of a problematic article on the 14th AfD nomination. Jehochman Talk 23:10, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much! Durova^Charge! 14:59, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Great comment

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the whole Brandt saga, but I would like to applaud you for one of the sanest and most thought provoking comments I've read it a while.--Kubigula (talk) 06:08, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I wonder sometimes how much people read these things. It's good to know they aren't missed. Durova^Charge! 15:03, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

HTML Refresh Language

hi durova,

re your posting to delete the html refresh language entry i posted yesterday, i have posted the following in the deletions discussion but not sure if i posted it in the correct space. I am thus sending this direct to you as well.

Please follow the reference to the IETF archive for the draft that is in the article. This is the IETF's own storage of drafts so addresses the issues of WP:V and WP:RS. This article was added as an adjunct to the history section of the Ajax (programming) article to provide a complete picture of alternatives that exist to that strategy. As for "blatant WP:COI" I again point to the reference to the officially saved IETF draft which means the the only source for this article about a computer language is on an internationally recognised organisations web site and not on Rosswnelson's web site as was stated above. I have also attempted to keep the article strictly neutral and would be happy to accept any suggestions on how to improve this in the content.

regards

ross nelson

LionheartX

A user named LionheartX making a lot of POV changes (generally pro-Chinese). I see that you blocked him in the past (although, this took some looking because he constantly blanks his talk page). I would appreciate your help in keeping an eye on this guy. Thanks. Alexwoods 21:34, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

I've sworn off that problem. Durova^Charge! 00:44, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Blocking policy

Please check this diff. I think it clarifies and also accomplishes the change we were seeking. The key point is to distinguish between disruptive incidents by otherwise valued members of the community, and disruptive accounts that serve no purpose except to make trouble. Jehochman ^Talk 17:24, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Looks adequate for Wikisleuthing of complex vandalism. Let's see whether anyone objects strongly enough to revert it. The most reasonable part of the criticism we've seen is that bad faith editors could try to misuse a change to railroad productive contributors in content dispute. If you make any further amendment, try your best to insulate against that. Durova^Charge! 17:36, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

WP:COIN

Hi Durova, I'm trying to honor your request to take on some of the work at COIN. I'm kind of unfamiliar with the territory, so any feedback or words of guidance are welcome. There be lions in that room! -Pete 20:30, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks very much for chipping in. Most of the notices at that board fit into three basic categories. Sometimes people make WP:COI mistakes in good faith when they're new to the site - we try to steer them in the right direction with polite user talk page posts. Another group of posts doesn't need much action because the edit history is old or there doesn't turn out to be an actual COI problem. The thing to really watch for is ideologically driven or profit motive abuse.

If you think you see the latter situation, assume good faith if possible and leave a polite warning. Update the noticeboard thread with specifics if you think administrative intervention is necessary. Article semi-protection is a simple solution to many COI problems. I'll also do full protections, user blocks, and (in extreme cases) user bans.

This area can be an interesting hobby if you like solving detective mysteries. There's no telling where a particular request may lead. Durova^Charge! 20:45, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. That sounds about like what I see, but your breakdown is useful. I've already commented on two cases, and on the "talk" pages of several articles listed by the bot. Seems fine so far, maybe I'll report back after some some more work. -Pete 20:59, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Let me know if anything strange pops up. I'll be glad to give pointers as needed. Most of it is intuitive and common sense. Every once in a while you'll find a real sneaky vandal. It can be quite satisfying to uncover that type of abuse and put an end to it. Durova^Charge! 21:08, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Invisible Water Soluble Safe Non-Toxic Barnstar

I hereby award you this Invisible Water Soluble Safe Non-Toxic Barnstar in recognition of the fact that, while for me to give you a visible barnstar might be construed as inappropriate given your position [here], your contributions to wikipedia patently merit recognition. Since the more I see the more I am impressed, you are, from this point until your next bath, shower, walk in the rain, or next Thursday at the latest, my hero. SheffieldSteel 22:26, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Golly, thanks. I've just fixed up some homemade herbal glycerin soap and I'll be sure to enjoy the barnstar with it. Cheers, Durova^Charge! 05:29, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Herman Edwards

Is this what you meant to do? JoshuaZ 00:20, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Oops, thanks for the catch. I've fixed that better now. Cheers, Durova^Charge! 05:32, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Help with Positive Coaching Alliance?

Durova, you seem to have chimed in on my poor first foray on wikipedia on the Positive Coaching Alliance page. Is there a way to simply remove the page until I better understand wikiquette? Thanks for any help or guidance you may provide.--PositiveCoach 02:26, 22 June 2007 (UTC) PositiveCoach

If the assertions at that article are true then it's certainly notable enough for Wikipedia. As volunteer editors we need to see some independent verification such as citations of news reports about your organization. It can also be problematic for a representative of any organization to attempt to write the Wikipedia article about it. The usual prose style of professional marketing/public relations writing doesn't fit well with this project. So you have several options here. I'll outline them and you can choose or ask me to elaborate if you need clarification.

• Join Wikipedia's WP:ADOPT mentorship program. That will put you in touch with an experienced editor who'll help you learn the ropes around here.
• Post suggested changes to the article's talk page. Wikipedia editors particularly like to see line citations to reliable sources. Then ask relevant WikiProjects to evaluate and adapt your suggested changes.
• If you're concerned that a high Google return for the current version of this article would embarrass the firm, you could try nominating it for deletion. Note your reasons in the deletion request. I'm not certain the nomination would carry because the organization does appear to be notable, but if that doesn't result in a deletion there's also a fair chance some uninvolved editors would improve it while it's under consideration.

Thanks for the polite reply and best wishes. Years ago I used to moonlight as an athletic instructor and positive reinforcement always seemed to work best. Durova^Charge! 05:47, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

COFS

From the standpoint of fairness, I'd like to express that I think COFS is not getting a fair shake here.

1. There is/was a question about sock puppets, due to the IP address. This seems to have been resolved by establishing that the COS in LA has a proxy. As I can't see IPs, I am not in a position to know if Misou and/or COFS edits from multiple (different) respective IPs or not. However, observing their edit styles, it seems to me that they are different people.
2. Then there was the issue about WP:COI. Different people seem to have a different definition of what COI truly involves and to what degree sanctions should be placed on an editor with any degree of COI. In this case COFS has clearly indicated that there is not an 'employment' relationship. While it does not completely address the relationship, it does remove payment from the picture. That leaves 'volunteer' of some sort, and a volunteer is simply that, a volunteer. People volunteer for things for a variety of reasons, and it usually indicates some level of interest or dedication to what they are volunteering for. This could indicate some level of COI, but I think that is stretching things pretty thin and thats where we would have to start banning multiple users in multiple articles. Personally, I have no interest in biting into that apple. It's a dangerous road to start down.
3. Then there is the issue of COFS being and unmanageable edit warrior. A careful look at COF block log indicates only two blocks for 3RR edit warring (the rest of the blocks were unblocked). I can point you to several editors who edit from an anti-cult perspective with more blocks than that. One editor in particular has 4 blocks under an old name and 3 recent blocks under a new name and has been 'forgiven' for as many as 7RR without being blocked. This isn't 'about' that editor so it is not relevant who it is. The point is, COFS only has 2 blocks for 3RR, which hardly defines an edit warrior when compared to the other editor's 7 blocks and at least 12 lucky breaks (that I counted)
4. Then there is the issue of meatpuppets. This is a weak argument, since all pro-Scientologists and anti-Scientologists could easily be considered meatpuppets, given the strongly polarized views on the subject.

In my opinion, people are adding all this smoke together, without truly looking at the details of the facts, and they are forming an opinon based on a feeling, rather than the facts in front of them. The block history establishes that COFS is not an edit warrior. There has been no RfC on COFS, which suggests that nobody has engaged COFS in any unresolved disputes.

To me, this is a matter of "lets accuse COFS enough times of enough things so that people start associating 'COFS' with 'problems'.

It's one thing to say that COFS won't cooperate, but the facts are, neither side is willing to compromise any more or less than the other.

Something needs to be done, certainly. But, sacrificing COFS in the name of NPOV is not the solution.

Thank you for taking the time to read my thoughts, such as they are.

Peace in God. Lsi john 19:10, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

My reply is at WP:CN. Durova^Charge! 21:20, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Gray

I understand you don't do investigations anymore, by request anyway, but your comments on WP:CN were most gratifying since I'm pretty sure something involving gray ethics is going on among some supporters as well. Thanks for your open-minded, yet astute approach in mediating the issue. Anynobody 10:19, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

• Gray ethics? You opened the AN/I to find out if your 3-month long list of offenses against Justanother violated any specific rules, and you wanted to know the exact location of those rules here. Then when your motives were questioned and you are told it is unacceptable, rather than stick to your original stated goal of 'finding out if it was acceptable' it looks like you posted a bunch of links intended to justify your behavior here.

Then after an admin had enough of the nonesense and closed the closed the discussion, you reopened it and tried to add this?

Now you suggest that going after COFS for gray ethics is acceptable? Sir your anti-Scientology campaign has been well documented. You began this charge against COFS, and now when you have nothing black and white, you shift over to gray and suggest that is acceptable? Be very careful that someone does not look at your conduct for gray. Lsi john 12:06, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I'll open this offer to all concerned in the dispute: if you believe some other editor has violated enough policies to merit community sanctions, draw up a report with evidence in your own user space. An example of an early report I did is User:Durova/Complex vandalism at Joan of Arc. Be mindful to avoid crossing the line into Wikipedia:Attack page. In the meantime, please refrain from trading accusations with each other. I strongly recommend mediation. Durova^Charge! 14:48, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the offer, but I respectfully decline. I have no desire to get anyone kicked off of wikipedia nor banned. I'd have thought that would have been obvious by now. I'm not here to 'compile' paranoid lists, thanks. The only reason I respond the way I do, is to help identify WP:KETTLE situations, when abusers attempt to draw unsuspecting good-faith editors and admins into their campaign to get someone booted. Lsi john 21:06, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually if there is a legitimate problem that needs to be addressed it's much better to put together a well referenced and well reasoned report. When I was a new administrator I would have referred your request to the request for investigations noticeboard and I'd like to get that noticeboard reactivated. In the meantime I've been training a talented core of up-and-coming wikisleuths, some of whom are now administrators, and you have my assurance they'll look into requests with impartiality. Set forth evidence with plenty of page diffs that connect all the dots, don't try to stretch the facts, and be the first to step forward with appropriate mea culpae regarding any mistakes you may have made. We just want to keep this site fair and honest. Durova^Charge! 21:42, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

violation of "do no harm"?

I am having an edit war over a poorly sourced "list of known Toupee wearers" that I feel clearly violates both BLP and WP:NOT as a list of useless and potentially harmful trivia. A new user and an anon keep ignoring my reversions and warnings. I bring this to you bc "do no harm" seems to be dear to your heart, and being accused of wearing a hairpeice could not only hurt someone deeply, but bring litigation.VanTucky 22:22, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Now they have removed all the living people, so it's just a bad trivia section now. VanTucky 22:31, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually that view has been attributed to me rather than something I've expressed. My actual view is that ethical decisions where good people disagree should be placed in the hands of the individuals who live with the consequences. So I've no particular opposition to living persons being included at a list of toupee wearers, so long as those entries are reliably sourced and the individuals themselves don't protest. Then again, in the interests of fair disclosure I happen to be a woman who has too much hair on my head - so maybe I'm not the best person to evaluate the potential for harm from such inclusions. Durova^Charge! 23:15, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Nice disclosure of your hair "POV" there. Oh you gals and your emotional considerations! Why can't you just ignore people's legitimate feelings? VanTucky 05:20, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

for you

		What a Brilliant Idea Barnstar
		I, VanTucky, award you, Durova, this Brilliant Idea Barnstar for founding Category:Eguor admins, which works to combat the feelings of a "sysop cabal" in Wikipedia (especially my own). VanTucky 17:33, 23 June 2007 (UTC)