Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement: Difference between revisions
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::I think some sort of civility probation seems appropriate. With the rest of it, apart from what he was already blocked for, it's hard to make out a definitive "right" or "wrong" party. Some of the incivility is clearly over the top and on at least one occasion more recent than the block a week ago [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Breein1007&diff=prev&oldid=365663744]. I would support civility probation. I don't know that a topic ban is warranted, though. --[[User:B|B]] ([[User talk:B|talk]]) 20:59, 7 June 2010 (UTC) |
::I think some sort of civility probation seems appropriate. With the rest of it, apart from what he was already blocked for, it's hard to make out a definitive "right" or "wrong" party. Some of the incivility is clearly over the top and on at least one occasion more recent than the block a week ago [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Breein1007&diff=prev&oldid=365663744]. I would support civility probation. I don't know that a topic ban is warranted, though. --[[User:B|B]] ([[User talk:B|talk]]) 20:59, 7 June 2010 (UTC) |
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::::Well, anything is technically covered by the discretionary sanction provision - that's why it's called "discretionary". ;) But in the case of the template header issue, (1) it's silly to fight over the label of the template, (2) it's logical that the template would match the name of the article, whatever that may be, and (3) even if you presume that his preferred title was less preferable, two edits six days apart are hardy sufficient cause to impose sanctions. Regarding the Golan Heights "does Hebrew or Arabic come first" issue, that's (1) a silly thing to argue about, and (2) stale. As I said above, I don't see anything actionable except possibly civility. --[[User:B|B]] ([[User talk:B|talk]]) 22:16, 7 June 2010 (UTC) |
::::Well, anything is technically covered by the discretionary sanction provision - that's why it's called "discretionary". ;) But in the case of the template header issue, (1) it's silly to fight over the label of the template, (2) it's logical that the template would match the name of the article, whatever that may be, and (3) even if you presume that his preferred title was less preferable, two edits six days apart are hardy sufficient cause to impose sanctions. Regarding the Golan Heights "does Hebrew or Arabic come first" issue, that's (1) a silly thing to argue about, and (2) stale. As I said above, I don't see anything actionable except possibly civility. --[[User:B|B]] ([[User talk:B|talk]]) 22:16, 7 June 2010 (UTC) |
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::I'm afriad I must disagree with B and PhilKnight, above. Although some of Breein1007's actions have drawn sanctions in the past, I think that this report, combined with even a cursory examination of Breein1007's contribution history, demonstrates a ''persistent pattern'' of poor behaviour that has gone unaddressed by isolated blocks. In such a contentious topic area, a collegial approach is especially important and edit-warring, incivility etc. is especially problematic. In my opinion, a topic-ban (articles and discussions) of between one and three months is appropriate; had I come first to this report I would have imposed such a ban but, given that other administrators disagree, I'll naturally leave the final decision to consensus. [[User:CIreland|CIreland]] ([[User talk:CIreland|talk]]) 03:50, 8 June 2010 (UTC) |
Revision as of 03:50, 8 June 2010
For appeals: create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}
See also: Logged AE sanctions
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Request concerning User:Breein1007
- User requesting enforcement
- Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 16:52, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Breein1007 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Sanction or remedy that this user violated
ARBPIA, Discretionary sanctions, warned:[1] (November 2009)
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- There has been discussions at the Template talkpage: National Parks of Israel. Anyone can clearly see from the entire discussion there that in the end the majority agreed to have either "occupied territories" or mention the occupied territories by name in the template. Then there was a RfM to move an article List of national parks and nature reserves in Israel to: List of national parks and nature reserves in Israel and the occupied territories. You can see the entire discussion here, admin closed it as "no consensus" for the move: [2] After this Breein1007 goes to the template, removed what was agreed at the template discussion and claims "this goes against the consensus of the recent RfC" So with the no-consensus RfM at the article he changed the consensus version of the template to the no-consensus version of the article. I asked the closing admin about this [3] and he said: "I will agree with you that a no consensus decision, does not bestow consensus status across the board for renames to the no consensus name. Each case needs to be considered on the individual merits. As to the contents of the template which is what I think your specific question is. This needs to be discussed on the template talk page and a decision reached there." I went to Breein1007s talkpage and told him this, and then he removes it from his talkpage: [4] And then he goes to the template and once again changes it to the same no-consensus version as the article RfM. Against the consensus at the template talkpage: [5] And then at the talkpage he says: [6] "And as discussed at the other article RfC, National parks "OF" Israel does not imply that they are in Israel." (misrepresenting the talkpage) "so please stop making POV edits with no consensus." He calls other peoples edits that follow the template talkpage consensus for "pov" while claiming it goes "against consensus" which is really a no-consensus from another RfM. And he did this after I pointed out to him what the closing admin had said, and he got no new consensus at the template discussion for the change he made.
- There was a lot of discussions over several articles to change several mountains in the Golan Heights from the Hebrew name to the Arabic name:[7][8][9] The closing admin said there was no consensus so there was no change:[10][11](At this time the translation of the name was Arabic first, Hebrew second) Then there was talks about adding all the Golan mountains into one single article and having the names with a (/) next to each other. Breein1007 then went and changed the translation to put the Hebrew translation before the Arabic before getting any consensus at all for this change: "putting languages in right order" (once again misrepresenting the consensus at talkpage: "right order") [12][13] three times he reverts this and gets warned by admin, look at the edit summary when he removed it [14]
- At Golan Heights, a user had removed a quote and misrepresented the quote in the text, she changed it from the quotes: "more than 80%" to hers: "sometimes" I changed this [15] and explained this at the talkpage: [16] Breein jumps in and reverts, tells an IP "please stop edit warring, sock puppet. use the talk page as asked". But if you look at the discussion, the version that Breein1007 reverted to had no consensus, and Breein1007 himself did not use the talkpage as he had asked the IP to do: [17] He just reverted, inserting a sentence that the source did not support, that had no consensus, and that Breein1007 himself did not discuss about at the talkpage while asking an IP to talk about it.
- [18] Types "per talk" in edit summary, but if you look at the talkpage there is no consensus for his edit. He is deliberately misrepresenting the talkpage in his edit summary. [19] He also said at the talkpage that Nick did not "address the issue" which is exactly what Nick did: [20]
- Canvassing: A user goes to Breein1007s talkpage and asks him for help to participate in an edit war: "Need help to fight wih PoV"... Breein after getting the hints goes to the article and helps him out in the edit war: [21][22][23][24][25] And they were also secretly talking with each other in Hebrew so that no one understands: [26][27][28]
- Makes at least 10 reverts to Gaza flotilla raid in 1 hour: (I have not counted the 1 rvs or 2 rvs so its probably more then 10) [29][30][31][32][33][34][35] (7) [36][37][38](3) When another editor warned him about this he removed the warning and said "ignoring comments from an unwelcome individual" He got blocked for this.
Incivility/Behavior:
- Behavior (talking about an admin): "There is this one piece of shit idiot admin"... "he has the reading comprehension of a 5 year old"... "I was kind of looking forward to making a fool out of him for a bigger audience and stripping him of his admin powers"
- Behavior: "What the hell are you talking about"
- Behavior: "I would suggest that you either speak for yourself, or ask your doctor for an increase in dose of your meds; seems like your multiple personalities are acting up." (Then ads it again [54])
- Connects an ANI thread opened about him by coincidence on a Jewish holiday to: "the brutality and disgusting nature of the Arabs in the Yom Kippur War"
- Makes fun of a user who cant speak english well: [55] (Although some have suggested that Ani Medjool faked his bad english, Breein1007 didn't know this. Its the thought that counts.)
- Sabotages a DYK: [56]
- Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
[59] (November 2009)
- Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)
Permanent topic ban from Arab-Israeli conflict articles. His editing and behavior has been a long term problem within Arab-Israeli conflict articles. He has clearly failed to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia. He has been sanctioned and warned many times, but it doesn't seem like it helps. He has clearly shown that he cant collaborate with other editors within Arab-Israeli conflict articles and he causes a lot of disruption at them.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
User Breein1007 has since he registered his account in November 2009 been banned 5 times [60] all of these banns are within the Arab-Israeli conflict. He has also been subject to an interaction ban: [61]
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning Breein1007
Statement by Breein1007
Comments by others about the request concerning Breein1007
I can comment on Ani Majdul case and on asking Israeli admin to give him rollbacks rights in Hebrew language.
First, in the case of Ani Majdul, everyone on the ANI opened against Breein1007 agreed (including one or two admins), after detailed investigation by uninvolved editor was made and presented on the ANI, that he is most probably editor who write in bad English on purpose and that he's not the one he present himself to be (Arab refugee from Lebanon if I'm correct) both because of what seems as delibrate spelling and grammar mistakes, because of his style of editing and because even he presented himself as Arabic native speaker, he seems not to be able to communicate in very basic level of Arabic. Then, some suggested that he's Breein's sock. Breein seem to noticed the suspicious style of editing on Ani Majdul, he might go wrong anyway with mocking him a little, and there is possibilty that Ani is who he say he's, but the case is very complicated and Breein might feel that Ani mocking everyone so he responded accordingly but this case doesn't make it just to cast sanctions on Breein. If I'm not mistaken, it was monthes ago and the ANI case ended with nothing.
As for addressing Israeli admin in Hebrew. First, the nationality of one admin, let us all agree, is not relevant and we excpect admins who are involved emotionaly or at all in certain issues to be responsible enough to avoid any using of sysop tools in regard to these areas of editing or when dealing with involved editors. There is enough place to assume good faith here as I don't believe he realy thought Israeli admin will give roll backs rights without proper process and not according to WP policy. Second, Breein adressed me many times in Hebrew in issues which have nothing to do with Wikipedia, just because he seem to enjoy parcticing the language or something. He do it very frequently on his TP when corresponding with other Hebrew speaking editors in issues concern more with his everyday life than with WP. It's not uncommon that many many editors communicate with other editors in their native language when they have the oppertunity. Most times they even forget to add translation to English. I've seen editors communicating with each other in French, Arabic, Persian and Spanish many times before. No one realy think that it can hide what they write. There are enough very good speakers of Hebrew in both sides of the I-P area of editing and I can even name them. Some of those also have Hebrew tag on their UP. If I'm not mistaken, it was long time ago.
I don't intend to comment on other cases I'm not very familiar with, don't have time to and etc. Infact, these are the two diffs provided by the editor opened this case that I've read --Gilisa (talk) 19:53, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
Statement by Shuki The past few months had been a welcomed respite from the battleground editing that Supreme Deliciousness and his like brought to the I-P conflict on WP. SD was topic banned on May 1 for 30 days and the quiet persisted. It is apparent though that SD has refused to calm down and decided to turn up the heat again with this frivolous report, somewhat similar to the one he filed on me in April in the hot recent spring. SD is fishing here and with no real point to grab on to. SD was also warned about his battleground mentality a couple of weeks before that in early April. --Shuki (talk) 21:14, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
- I have already received a topic ban for something I mostly did a very long time ago:[62] If I now have done something wrong, file a new enforcement request. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 21:38, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
- And Breein1007 has just been [banned for 48 hours] so this AE is quite redundant, vague and again, frivolous. There is nothing really here to action on except getting a bit emotional and pushing the limits of civility, nothing to do with the arbitration case. --Shuki (talk) 22:28, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
- Breein1007s ban on June 1 was only for his edit war on Gaza flotilla raid article, what about the other 99% of this enforcement request? --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 22:33, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
- And Breein1007 has just been [banned for 48 hours] so this AE is quite redundant, vague and again, frivolous. There is nothing really here to action on except getting a bit emotional and pushing the limits of civility, nothing to do with the arbitration case. --Shuki (talk) 22:28, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
Statement by NickCT This is slightly silly. Anyone familair with Breein knows that if one took the time one could provide 1,000s on examples similair to the ones Supreme has offered above. His negative behavior has spanned over a long period of time. That anyone would speak for him here simply goes to demonstrate the disturbing bias that surrounds I/P issues. @PhilK - Sup is right about the recent block being for edit warring. These charges are different. PhilK, I'm a little surprised you were so willing to block me for suggesting Breein was a "bigot", and yet, in the face of the language and behavior above, which seems far further over the line, you do nothing. Is this a double standard? Is there a reason for it? NickCT (talk) 03:45, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
Housekeeping
- Just a note for archiving purposes: The editor filing this AE has posted notice at the AN forum[63]. --nsaum75¡שיחת! 20:46, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
more comments by Supreme Deliciousness moved up from below as per explicit guideline
- This is not true, read the first part of the enforcement request, his long time behavior problem continued yesterday several days after his latest block on June 1. And that same block on June 1 was only about his edit warring at one article: Gaza flotilla raid, what about the other 99% of things he has done in this enforcement request? --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 22:36, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
- B, all his incivility or the majority of it is related to Arab-Israel conflict issues, he has been warned many, many times but it doesn't help. And can you please comment on the first part of the request, the template issue, the canvassing and his behaviour at the Mountains in the Golan Heights, isn't this covered in discretionary sanctions? --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 21:53, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
- You did not answer about the canvassing part. Concerning the template, its name had consensus, and he changed it against consensus, the article name did not have consensus. So if anyone is gonna be changed to match the other, its not the one that has consensus that is going to be changed to the no-consensus one. I showed him the involving admins comment, and he still changed it. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 22:51, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
- Well, I don't know how he can be guilty of canvassing when he was the one canvassed. Blaming him for that is ridiculous. As for the edits themselves, yes, it's edit warring, and if reported, the article could have been locked or a block could have been considered, but it's stale now. --B (talk) 01:48, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
- You did not answer about the canvassing part. Concerning the template, its name had consensus, and he changed it against consensus, the article name did not have consensus. So if anyone is gonna be changed to match the other, its not the one that has consensus that is going to be changed to the no-consensus one. I showed him the involving admins comment, and he still changed it. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 22:51, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
Result concerning Breein1007
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
- Agree with Shuki - all of this happened before his block, so I don't think any action is required. PhilKnight (talk) 22:32, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
- I think some sort of civility probation seems appropriate. With the rest of it, apart from what he was already blocked for, it's hard to make out a definitive "right" or "wrong" party. Some of the incivility is clearly over the top and on at least one occasion more recent than the block a week ago [64]. I would support civility probation. I don't know that a topic ban is warranted, though. --B (talk) 20:59, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
- Well, anything is technically covered by the discretionary sanction provision - that's why it's called "discretionary". ;) But in the case of the template header issue, (1) it's silly to fight over the label of the template, (2) it's logical that the template would match the name of the article, whatever that may be, and (3) even if you presume that his preferred title was less preferable, two edits six days apart are hardy sufficient cause to impose sanctions. Regarding the Golan Heights "does Hebrew or Arabic come first" issue, that's (1) a silly thing to argue about, and (2) stale. As I said above, I don't see anything actionable except possibly civility. --B (talk) 22:16, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
- I'm afriad I must disagree with B and PhilKnight, above. Although some of Breein1007's actions have drawn sanctions in the past, I think that this report, combined with even a cursory examination of Breein1007's contribution history, demonstrates a persistent pattern of poor behaviour that has gone unaddressed by isolated blocks. In such a contentious topic area, a collegial approach is especially important and edit-warring, incivility etc. is especially problematic. In my opinion, a topic-ban (articles and discussions) of between one and three months is appropriate; had I come first to this report I would have imposed such a ban but, given that other administrators disagree, I'll naturally leave the final decision to consensus. CIreland (talk) 03:50, 8 June 2010 (UTC)