Wikipedia talk:Did you know: Difference between revisions

Did you know?
Did you know?
Introduction and rules
Introduction	WP:DYK
General discussion	WT:DYK
Guidelines	WP:DYKCRIT
Reviewer instructions	WP:DYKRI
Nominations
Nominate an article	WP:DYKCNN
Awaiting approval	WP:DYKN
Approved	WP:DYKNA
April 1 hooks	WP:DYKAPRIL
Preparation
Preps and queues	T:DYK/Q
Prepper instructions	WP:DYKPBI
Admin instructions	WP:DYKAI
Main Page errors	WP:ERRORS
History
Statistics	WP:DYKSTATS
Archived sets	WP:DYKA
Just for fun
Monthly wraps	WP:DYKW
Awards	WP:DYKAWARDS
Userboxes	WP:DYKUBX
Hall of Fame	WP:DYK/HoF
List of users ...
... by nominations	WP:DYKNC
... by promotions	WP:DYKPC
Administrative
Scripts and bots	WP:DYKSB
On the Main Page	T:DYK
To ping the DYK admins	{{DYK admins}}
	v; t; e;

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Revision as of 21:41, 28 October 2010

Error reports

Please do not post error reports for the current Main Page template version here. Instead, post them to WP:ERRORS. If you post an error report on one of the queues here, please include a link to the queue in question. Thank you.

Template:FixBunching

Queue 6

Hi, I think it would be more appropriate to write: Edward Gal and his stallion. Yoninah (talk)

DYK Contributor Ribbon

As far as I can tell, there is no ribbon for DYK contributors, which I think is a shame... editors who have just got their first DYK credit might appreciate a ribbon to display (should they desire). So, I created one, and uploaded it:

If there is general support for the idea, I propose a template be created that could make including the ribbon on a userpage easier. The template could add the editor to the DYK contributor category, as do the DYK userboxes. However, I'd appreciate some help in doing this, as might template writing experience is very minimal.

Also, would it be appropriate for the DYK bot, on giving a user his or her first DYK credit, to include a link to Category:Wikipedia Did you know contributors and suggest they consider adding a suitable userbox, should theu wish? Thoughts? EdChem (talk) 15:49, 8 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

How would the bot figure out if it's a user's first DYK? Shubinator (talk) 15:51, 8 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not a bot programmer, so I don't know what would be the best way. One possibility might be to check if the user is in the contributors category. Or, check that the editor has contributed to T:TDYK, or whether the bot has ever posted before to the user's talk page. Any of these might miss some cases, but it is better than maintaining a list of every DYK contributor. EdChem (talk) 15:55, 8 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It might just be easier to update the text from DYKmake to say something like "You may now proudly display the [[DYK contributor ribbon]]!" and let the editors add it to their userpage themselves if they like. rʨanaɢ (talk) 16:00, 8 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

(ec) The last idea is best. Many users don't use the userboxes, so the first would give a lot of false positives. The second is tough to guesstimate because the editor had to have edited T:TDYK for their first nom. The third requires less (no) guessing by the bot, so it's the best. (No opinion on the userboxes message/idea as a whole; just establishing that it is technically possible.) Shubinator (talk) 16:02, 8 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Nice ribbon, Ed. I agree with Shubinator, a text line informing them of the ribbon is probably the best bet; trying to code something to add it automatically could be quite a pain. 28bytes (talk) 16:24, 8 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Glad you like the ribbon. :) As far as the bot idea goes, I can accept if it's a practical non-starter, or if there is just a better way to achieve a similar end - it was just a suggestion. Is the template idea for use on a user page viable? EdChem (talk) 16:36, 8 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, I can whip up a template for you, give me a few minutes. 28bytes (talk) 16:40, 8 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Try this out: {{User:28bytes/DYK ribbon}}. Anyone familiar with templates can feel free to edit the code if there are problems with it. 28bytes (talk) 17:09, 8 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I'll wait to see any other comments before putting it in template space. :) EdChem (talk) 18:32, 8 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Cool ribbon, thanks. I am sportin' it in my sandbox right now. Works there, it is a simple template anyway.--NortyNort (Holla) 10:18, 9 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I have boldly move 28bytes' page to template space; the code to insert it onto a user page is {{DYK contributor ribbon}} Anyone think it would be worth creating a DYK nominator ribbon and a DYK reviewer ribbon? EdChem (talk) 10:45, 9 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like there to be a DYK reviewer ribbon, but I'm biased :) An argument in favour of it would be that we never run out of DYK creators and nominators, but we do sometimes seem to be short of (enough) people reviewing. So encouragement of reviews might be a good thing. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 12:03, 13 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

FYI, I developed this GA reviewer ribbon quite recently. I was thinking of a DYK reviewer ribbon along the same lines. EdChem (talk) 12:15, 13 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, why not? 28bytes (talk) 15:50, 13 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have now developed a DYK reviewer ribbon. I have also added it to WP:RIBBONS. EdChem (talk) 06:22, 20 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Looks nice! 28bytes (talk) 22:15, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thoughts on DYK noms, including the declining rate

Gatoclass, myself, and others have foreseen the declining DYK nom rate and that we'd have to change the number of hooks per queue, queues per day, etc. However, not all agreed at what point we should do that. In that vein, here are some thoughts and observations:

right now there are 139 noms + several in on that page up for special dates, only 56 of those 139 have been approved
the problem of reviewers focusing on newer noms and ignoring older noms is perpetual and will never go away, towit: right now Oct 7 has 33 noms, 18 of which are approved (over 50%) but Oct 4 has 23 noms only 7 of which have been approved (less than 33%), likewise, Oct 5 has 20 noms, only 9 approved (not quite 50%), for both 4 and 5 Oct most of the unapproved noms haven't even been looked at
Halloween has two noms pending on the noms page, one of which has not been looked at, and over 30 on the special Halloween 2010 approved page
Oct 8 only got 17 noms, very low
Finding good quirky noms for the last queue slots is getting very hard

At this point, I now support changing the queues back to 8 for queues/prep sets not yet put together. — Rlevse • Talk • 13:55, 9 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with 8 noms per queue. Right now (as of 13:57, October 9, 2010 (UTC)), there is an average of 17 noms per day. In regards to the old noms, ~~a lot~~ some are obviously problematic, even at first article/hook glance. I think that may dissuade some reviewers, myself included, but I have been trying to work through some.--NortyNort (Holla) 14:11, 9 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Some are problematic, but many simply are untouched or have notes saying they're fixed and no one has rechecked them. Thanks for helping. — Rlevse • Talk • 14:18, 9 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Count me among those supporting a reduction to 8 hooks/update. --Allen3 ^talk 17:15, 9 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

One reason that newer hooks get reviewed over older hooks is that they are at the top of the page. Now, this may be a radical idea, but how about reversing the order of the hooks, so that the newer ones go to the bottom of the page. If this idea is adopted, I'd suggest an admin fully protects the page for the 10-15 minutes it would take to re-order, rather than keep getting edit conflicts. Mjroots (talk) 15:39, 9 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with this idea. Mspraveen (talk) 16:04, 9 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I like that idea too. — Rlevse • Talk • 16:35, 9 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Neutral. This would encourage older noms to be reviewed first, but also has the potential of discouraging both nominator and reviewers when they see problem noms when they load up the page (not to mention the pitched battles that seem to happen every few months). Shubinator (talk) 17:08, 9 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I am concerned about how much effort will be needed to retrain nominators to place new submissions at the bottom of the page. Probably the best course forward is to make the change and see how many corrections need to be made after a week or so. As long as people are willing to revert to current practices if more problems develop than are resolved, then I am willing to support a trial to see if the reordering will help. --Allen3 ^talk 17:15, 9 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I doubt somehow that the page re-format will be of any real help. People are still going to review the same number of hooks. Wether a reviewer takes the time of doing one up top or down below, it all pans out in the end. If they only were going to review one article and that one eventually reaches the bottom then it all amounts to the same thing. What we really need is people taking time to review more hooks. That's the only real sollution to lightening the load on the regulars.4meter4 (talk) 20:08, 9 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

While the 139 hooks sounds low, it's not as bad as it sounds. If you factor in the six queues as well as the four preps (why do we have four now? That seems pointless imo) that's an extra 90 hooks, so 229 hooks really isn't too bad. Reducing to eight is a given, I'm actually not sure when or why it was raised to nine. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 17:42, 9 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As for the prep areas, I would support keeping four. I do lots of gnomish work, and I try to check hooks as much as possible while they're still on the nominations page, but there are so many that I can't thoroughly check everything. One can easily give better scrutiny to hooks when they make it to prep. They can be checked for typos, formatting problems, facts, hook appropriateness, etc. Before the expansion to four, hooks would go from prep to queue quickly and I'd have to post queue fix requests here, sometimes letting the most minor things just slip past. Since we went to four, I've had more time to review hooks and have been able to make all of the edits myself, without having to post any correction requests here. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 21:30, 9 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The increase to nine occurred in early August (see Wikipedia talk:Did you know/Archive 57#Backlog). With WikiCup in full swing, we were seeing 35 to 45 new submissions per day and had a backlog of over 370 nominations [1]. --Allen3 ^talk 17:57, 9 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As consensus to go to 8 hooks per update appears fairly clear, I have modified Template:Did you know/Clear and placed only 8 hooks in the update at Template:Did you know/Preparation area 1. --Allen3 ^talk 19:14, 9 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Cool. Are we gooing to try the dates inverted on the noms page? — Rlevse • Talk • 19:24, 9 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Suck it and see, that's what I say! Mjroots (talk) 19:30, 9 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Rlevse asked me to comment here. In regards to the backlog, I think that not only do we need to go to 8 hooks, we will also probably have to go to 8-hour updates at the current rate of decline. As for reversing the order of hooks at T:TDYK, I'm not terribly keen on the idea myself for a variety of reasons, but perhaps it can't do much harm as an experiment. Gatoclass (talk) 22:53, 9 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support 8 hooks, and 8-hour update at a later stage. Will resume writing :) Other DYK problems mentioned at the very top are perpetual. I had once a thought that those editors who care about providing interesting hooks, images and articles tend to be auto-promoted by quick reviews, and those who post boring ones sink to the bottom (of the T:TDYK page). Maybe this is "natural selection", and at this state of my mind I'm hesitant to promote bottom reviews .. A second thought. The reversal idea has its merits and I would support it, but. Our conservatism is a problem here, and the mess with nominators keeping adding to the top will last for quite a while. Materialscientist (talk) 23:58, 9 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that it's very much a case of "natural selection", which is one reason I'm not keen on the idea. I have my doubts it will change my own reviewing habits, and in any case I think too much fuss is made about clearing out the old hooks, but I don't feel strongly opposed to the idea and I don't think it can do much harm to give it a try. Gatoclass (talk) 00:19, 10 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

One way or the other, they have to be cleared, we can't leave them there forever. — Rlevse • Talk • 00:24, 10 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Certainly they should be given priority, but the top priority of course is to create the best possible updates and if that means taking some more recent hooks, updaters should not be hesitant about that. When I was regularly doing updates I took them from anywhere on the page, and the "tail" never seemed to get any longer then. They all get processed eventually. Gatoclass (talk) 00:35, 10 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I actually think the idea of placing newer hooks at the bottom of the page is more sensible. Another idea to increase new DYKs is to allow newly premoted GA and FA articles to be candidates. The idea of DYK is IMO to provide interesting facts from well written articles. However the current criteria of new articles or articles 5x expanded is a little specific IMO. -- Lil_℧niquℇ №1 | talk2me 23:41, 9 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Um, the idea of DYK is IMO to showcase new content IMO, not fun trivia IMO. From WP:DYK: "The DYK section gives publicity to newly created or expanded Wikipedia articles." It will require widespread consensus to change that, and such consensus has not been demonstrated yet despite numerous proposals (here and at WP:VPP) over the past couple years. rʨanaɢ (talk) 00:13, 10 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

One week trial

So let's try a one week trial with the "old noms on top" idea. — Rlevse • Talk • 00:00, 10 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds fine to me. I like the idea of widening the DYK criteria as well (per LilUnique above) but I realise that is substantially more revolutionary and might need wider consultation and buy-in. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 00:08, 10 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

DYK is for "wikipedia's newest articles" and GAs don't necessarily qualify. This is a perennial proposal that has always been rejected. Gatoclass (talk) 00:12, 10 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Then let's add it to WP:PEREN, meanwhile back to the "old noms on top" question. — Rlevse • Talk • 00:18, 10 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

A trial seems to be agreed, just need to work out when to try it. How about starting midnight UTC Monday 11th or thereabouts. Mjroots (talk) 01:24, 10 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Works for me. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:53, 10 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Let's make that specific, at 23:59 Mon 11 Oct 2010, as some may misinterpret what day midnight falls on. — Rlevse • Talk • 12:37, 10 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed they might. I did mean midnight Sun/Mon, but Mon/Tue will be fine. Mjroots (talk) 21:26, 10 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Implemented. — Rlevse • Talk • 00:12, 12 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments on new format

I like the new format. I believe it will encourage reviewers to look at the articles that need some attention first. Also reviewers that are not inclined to get bogged down in a lengthy discussion over the merits of a hook can still do what they've been doing. I guess that might be the point. Dincher (talk) 01:21, 13 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. I dislike the new format and found the earlier system easier to navigate. This organization feels counterintuitive to me. I would prefer that we change it back.4meter4 (talk) 06:51, 13 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. One of the problems with the oldest-to-newest sequence is that the "Older nominations" section break is missing, which means you can't easily see which days are open for new nominations and which are closed. —Bruce1ee^talk 07:03, 13 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the "Older nominations" section as it seemed to be redundant. Maybe a "newer nominations" section could be added for hooks less than 5 days old. Mjroots (talk) 10:39, 13 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps we could do something like this:

2 Old nominations

2.1 Articles created/expanded on October 6

2.2 Articles created/expanded on October 7

3 Current nominations

3.1 Articles created/expanded on October 8

3.2 Articles created/expanded on October 9

3.3 Articles created/expanded on October 10

3.4 Articles created/expanded on October 11

3.5 Articles created/expanded on October 12

3.6 Articles created/expanded on October 13 —Bruce1ee^talk 10:58, 13 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - the newer and older nominations for a certain day are all over the place, this new system is completely chaotic, if a trial is to be properly started NEWER nominations on a particular day SHOULD be placed on the end since we're doing everything chronologically. —Ғяіᴆaз'§Đøøм • Champagne? • 9:31pm • 10:31, 13 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The reversed format seem to be encouraging the review of older noms first. Re the order of noms per day, I don't see it as a problem. As long as a nomination is under the correct day, what does it matter in which order they appear? Mjroots (talk) 10:35, 13 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Yes it's working fine as far as I can see. I already knew I had to scroll down near the end to find the new and exciting nominations to review. (Just kidding, I review half at one end and half at the other, whichever way up it is - but I know most people don't. And actually, for reviewing the older things, it really feels easier the way it is now.) --Demiurge1000 (talk) 00:26, 14 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I like the new format and think it is having the desired effect. It did seem as though it confused a few people though. I would suggest running for longer than one week as it appears that people are just now getting used to the new layout. I would also like to suggest that an additional note be added to the notice a few days before it gets switched back, to give people a chance to be ready for it. Thanks. - Hydroxonium (talk) 00:39, 14 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I am of mixed feelings about the new format. On the plus side, older nominations appear to be receiving more reviewer attention. On the down side, I have noticed an increase in the number of new nominations being placed under the wrong date (e.g. [2] and [3]). As DYK regulars have the technical skills and understanding to adjust to different formats, I am more concerned with the format causing confusion for relative newbies about where to place new submissions. A secondary concern is the effective loss of the "Older nominations" header removes the visual reminder of which days are still open for new submissions and which days are beyond the five day window. --Allen3 ^talk 01:30, 14 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

We can put the older noms thing in and I'm sure Shub can do any code tweaks. Wrong placement of noms hasn't been that many and is fixed with a little time and people reading the notice and date headers. Also note the number of noms is creeping back up. A few days ago it was in the 140s and today it was over 180. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:45, 14 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I also like the new setup, which seems to be working quite well. The older days seem to be being worked through a lot faster now than they did before. And I agree with Bruce1ee's suggestion of how the Old/New nominations format should be made. I think it would work better like that. Silverseren^C 01:46, 14 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I've had a go at adding in the older / current noms split again. To do this, I've had to use lvl 1 hdrs for the main hdrs. The alternative was to move all hdrs down a lvl. Mjroots (talk) 05:40, 14 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I think that looks fine. I've tweaked the levels a bit and adjusted the TOC limit. —Bruce1ee^talk 06:00, 14 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support not that I see a vote yet, but this is definitely an improvement :) - Theornamentalist (talk) 20:24, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support It works for me. Looking at other entries, I still added a nom at the top of a given date. If adding at the bottom was desired for chronological order, that should be stated clearly. I like about this order from old to new that it raises attention for the Special occasions section, smile, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:11, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support I haven't been during the trial, the new order makes a lot more sense to me and the page is currently a lot smaller than normal so it would seem to have had a positive effect. In particular, often the older hooks are those that are borderline for some reason, so having more editors see them and hopefully comment, can only be a good thing. Smartse (talk) 16:35, 18 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Time's almost up

The one-week trial ends tonight, are we in agreement to leave it as it is? Strange Passerby (talk • c • status) 15:40, 18 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Leave it as it is for now, but maybe make a final decision in a month. First impressions are that it is going well, but I don't think a week is long enough. Mjroots (talk) 16:24, 18 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If I put my crat hat on, I'd say consensus is to accept the new format. But, whatever the group wants to do is okay. Right now I'd agree with MJR to go another week. — Rlevse • Talk • 16:28, 18 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think we should make it clear that the newest hooks for a day should be on the bottom in the edit notice, the layout right now is muddled up. —Ғяіᴆaз'§Đøøм • Champagne? • 11:30am • 00:30, 19 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think it matters where within a day's section the nom's are as long as they are filed under the correct day. — Rlevse • Talk • 00:32, 19 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't really like it that much...you expect to go to the bottom of the page for the rancid stuff. ResMar 01:32, 19 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think that's the whole point we've been trying to avoid. Under the old system, with all the stuff with problems at the bottom, very few people were willing to tackle it. By listing them at the top they get more prominence and, accordingly, more views; more second, third, fourth, fifth opinions. Strange Passerby (talk • c • status) 01:41, 19 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've reworded the notice at the top of the suggestions page. Let's give it another week, then make a decision. Noms in the coming week will all have been made under the alternate system, rather than a mixture of the two systems as happened in the last week. Mjroots (talk) 06:21, 19 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It seems fine to me. I tend to just review whatever hooks are on top of the pile, and when the old hooks are on top, they are the ones I'm reviewing, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. So it seems to me that it's doing what it was intended to do, which is bring more attention to the older hooks. Gatoclass (talk) 13:04, 19 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm only a very occassional contributor to DYK so my opinion probably isn't worth that much, but FWIW I think the new layout is a big improvement. Giving the oldest hooks priority can only be a good thing. Interesting to note that the oldest nomination is only seven days old at present, which is about the lowest I've seen it, so it seems to be working. Alzarian16 (talk) 18:26, 19 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm definitely in support of the new format. Although I don't do much reviewing here anymore, I tend to glance through and see if anything of interest catches my eye (this is DYK afterall!) Having the old nominations at the top makes it more likely that I'll look at them and offer a view, help or review. I certainly haven't been confused by the change, and I think it is all pretty well explained. Harrias ^talk 13:24, 20 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

FWIW, I like the new format as well. 28bytes (talk) 14:57, 20 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Good to see that Wikipedia still can not make a concrete decision on anything, without a dither, blather, hang on a minute, etc. Good job we do not sit on the United Nations Security Council.... hell we do. So that's why ! 21:43, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

I support. It's a step forward for those who just scroll down when reviewing. The only problem I have seen, occasionally, was a new nom placed up top. That should go away with time.--NortyNort (Holla) 22:23, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support In full favor, it'll help with older nominations not getting lost at the bottom of the page. Miyagawa (talk) 11:18, 22 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support, seems to be going well so far, with little if any confusion caused by the change. -- Cirt (talk) 11:56, 22 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support, as commented above. Reviewers going for the new ones see the Special occasions more easily - where a 24 October hook is still waiting, smile --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:10, 22 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support, as this makes good sense. Schwede66 02:44, 23 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Good change really. Christopher Connor (talk) 03:44, 23 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Page is definitely easier to navigate for reviewers looking for the older hooks. Yoninah (talk) 09:11, 26 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support. It is easier working from the top down instead of the bottom up – for reviewing and promoting hooks to the prep areas. —Bruce1ee^talk 09:59, 26 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Permanent change?

I suggest that the experiment has worked, and that the "older noms at top" system be adopted permanently. Mjroots (talk) 10:38, 25 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yea, it's pretty much unanimous, looking at the comments in the subthread immediately above. — Rlevse • Talk • 09:48, 26 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I feel the experiment did no harm, is a good idea and I support it but I can't say far certain or quantify for that matter whether it was a good success. Anyone notice an improvement?--NortyNort (Holla) 09:54, 26 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Question on previously deleted articles

I currently have an interest in rewriting an article that was deleted as a blatant copyvio rather than have violating content removed (which would have left virtually nothing). Would this count as a "new article" for DYK purposes, as I can find nothing in the guidelines to indicate either way? Cheers. Rodhull andemu 18:36, 19 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, articles deleted as copyvios and then recreated from scratch count as brand new articles for DYK purposes. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt Mjroots (talk) 19:35, 19 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I'll get on with it. Rodhull andemu 17:16, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Rule change proposal

the current rule stands at a new article or a massive expansion of 5x in 5 days, however, i think this is a little unfair on bigger articles. Currency war was 30k when i started an expansion, and that would require it to go to 250k to feature (which is massive, requires multiple splits and neary impossible), however, articels that are say 5k-10k have an unfari advantange that they need a much smaller expansion to 25k (which is still smaller than when i started the aforementioned article). Therefore i think somethign like an expansion of 50% for articles over some number (say 25k for thes ake of this) or 5x would be a fairer proposal.Lihaas (talk) 13:00, 20 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I thought the idea at the very start was to lengthen stubs? f o x 13:14, 20 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think the rule is fine. I see no reason it should be changed, but if it must, perhaps a decreasing rate of expansion the larger an article is would suffice. Strange Passerby (talk • c • status) 13:28, 20 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There's no reason for a 30K article to be 5k expanded. That's too big. It should be subarticle if there's that much to write about. The purpose of the rule is to get stub/starts expanded so they are in at least some semblance of decent condition. DYK's purpose is not to enable every article to possibly be DYK eligible. That being said, there is some leeway for the large articles, but for something 30K, I'd just say skip DYK and go to GA/FA. — Rlevse • Talk • 13:35, 20 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

(EDIT CONFLICT)The main page says: "From Wikipedia's newest articles:" Expanded a stub into an article is in essence making an article: what was there before was more or less a placeholder. Expanding something that started off at 30k is already an article. Therefore, it should be that much harder for it to qualify, because it's not really one of the newest articles, just an article with some work done. So, in summary, I don't really think it should be changed at all.Harrias ^talk 13:36, 20 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Good news, a 30K article would only have to go up to 150K to be 5x expanded. Bad news, I see no reason to change the rule no matter how large the size of the original article. Yes, this means many articles I've written or expanded over the years never had a chance at DYK but it's for "Wikipedia's newest articles" not "every article on Wikipedia". If you take a 30K article up to say 60K, go for GA/FA instead. - Dravecky (talk) 14:57, 20 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Harrias has a good point: it's for articles that previously didn't exist in much of a decent condition. Occasional exceptions happen when bigger-than-stub articles get expanded greatly (look at Eastern chipmunk's history last December and January), but I agree with the idea of requiring major expansion for already-existing articles. Nyttend (talk) 01:52, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ditto Rlevse and Draveky. For the occasional exception, we can always ignore all rules. cmadler (talk) 15:30, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This is such a perennial complaint that maybe we should add a note to Additional Rules or something. DYK is for new content. If an article is already 30k, maybe you should focus on trying to improve it to GA/FA rather than DYK. (And to be honest, GA/FA are more "prestigious", in the award-collecting sense, than DYK, so I don't see why people complain about taking a GA instead of a DYK. It's not like the couple hours on the main page buried underneath other stuff is a huge deal.) rʨanaɢ (talk) 17:05, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That note is called Wikipedia:Did you know/Meanies. Art LaPella (talk) 05:17, 25 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, I knew it sounded familiar! rʨanaɢ (talk) 05:23, 25 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Queue 3

The Oneida I hook is suffering the same problems as the Oneida II hook (Template talk:Did you know#Oneida County v. Oneida Indian Nation of N.Y. State). The former has been approved and is in the queue, the latter has received several objections as to referencing.

We are saying the opposite thing here over the same referencing issue. IMHO, the Q3 hook needs to be pulled until the referencing issues of both articles have been addressed. Mjroots (talk) 08:47, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The queue 3 hook was approved. So why is one okay and the other not? There's obviously a difference of opinion on this pair of hooks. — Rlevse • Talk • 09:51, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This all appears to be a squabble over how to do legal ref formats. For other refs, there are several ref formats acceptable and standard on wiki. What are the wiki standards for legal refs? Not opinion of any one or group of editors, but the accepted legal ref standards, ie, what is allowed per wiki policy? — Rlevse • Talk • 09:58, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

See my comment at the Oneida II hook, the linked webpage does not support any of the article's refs. Mjroots (talk) 14:59, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've tagged Oneida County v. Oneida Indian Nation of N.Y. State with {{refimprove}}, and raised the issue at Talk:Oneida County v. Oneida Indian Nation of N.Y. State. Mjroots (talk) 17:14, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The vast majority of legal articles on Wikipedia use legal citation (more specifically case citation style). Notwithstanding the fact that Mjroots appears to strongly dislike this citation style, it is actually quite similar to the general style of scholarly citation: [volume #] [abbreviated source title] [page #]. He seems to be raising two separate issues: he would like every citation to an external webpage (which seems quite contrary to WP:EL), and he would like legal citations to be cited as though they were not citations to official reporters, but rather citations to ordinary webpages. I have already provided a link to the Oyez Project in all the articles he has disputed. Apparently, he claims to be able to find no information at this cite, even though it contains not just the text of the opinion, but the oral argument. It appears that he has chosen to object to all articles written by me, even if the hook is cited to journal articles, rather that the case itself. It appears someone has already removed the Oneida II article as a result of his comments, even though I capitulated there and provided a link to the online text of the opinion in the very first reference. I do not have the time to continue dealing with this on dozens of different pages. It is unfortunate if new legal articles which are well-cited according to the generally accepted conventions are rejected simply because they have been singled out by someone with a broader agenda regarding legal citation style. Savidan 18:51, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You guys need to settle this elsewhere. I see nothing wrong with the cites Savidan is using. — Rlevse • Talk • 23:34, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Prep 4, last hook

I can't believe you're putting such an egregious and mysognistic quote on the main page. Never mind that Mark Twain is dead; it shows him in an extremely bad light. Yoninah (talk) 18:07, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see what the big deal is and to me it puts his employeed, not Twain, in a bad light. — Rlevse • Talk • 19:05, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's fine, though it might be better to use the longer quote in the hook: ... that author Mark Twain denounced his former secretary Isabel Lyon as "a liar, a forger, a thief, a hypocrite, a drunkard, a sneak, a humbug, a traitor, a conspirator, a filthy-minded & salacious slut pining for seduction"? That's 222 characters, but I'd argue for IAR, the more so since that update has several particularly short hooks. cmadler (talk) 20:10, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I like the longer quote better. The hook can be reduced to 203 characters: ... that Mark Twain denounced his former secretary as "a liar, a forger, a thief, a hypocrite, a drunkard, a sneak, a humbug, a traitor, a conspirator, a filthy-minded & salacious slut pining for seduction"? MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 20:25, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Updated with Mandarax's version. — Rlevse • Talk • 22:50, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Crediting photographers

It just occurred to me — we have no way of recognizing the photographers whose images appear in DYK. Would it be reasonable to expand {{DYKmake}} to have a parameter for photographers? Not all lead images are photographs or the work of the uploaders, so I would see it as reasonable for the template to contain instructions only to give credit to the person who uploaded it if that person has an en:wp account. Nyttend (talk) 22:30, 22 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Do other projects aside from TFP do this? I think if a user contributes a photo, they contributed to the article and should get make credit as well. I think, on occasions where the picture appears in the lead, such credit could be given.--NortyNort (Holla) 02:04, 23 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This would be impossible to apply consistently, since obviously not every single image would have been taken by someone from enwp. It would also seem to me to be a bit of a hassle for the nominator to have to check who uploaded an image at commons, to see if they have an enwp account, just to use a 100px thumb in a DYK. Strange Passerby (talk • c • status) 02:49, 23 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not suggesting that we require the nominator to do anything; instead, I'd just like to see it as an option. The article that led me to think of this is Winton Place Methodist Episcopal Church, which is scheduled to be in the lead tomorrow; the photo was taken by Greg5030, but he added it to the article more than two years ago, so I don't think it appropriate to call him a contributor to the article itself for DYK purposes. Nyttend (talk) 18:20, 23 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Correction

{{edit protected}}

In Queue 6, it should read "Gabriel's Oboe" and not Gabriel's Oboe. 22:43, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Fixed. (As I understand, themes are not italicized). Materialscientist (talk) 22:47, 22 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Likewise for Nella Fantasia (same hook), which should read "Nella Fantasia". Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 11:31, 23 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sure. Why didn't I notice it earlier? Materialscientist (talk) 11:39, 23 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Tarakan riot

This found its way onto the Main Page, via DYK, while still in desperate need of substantial copy-editing (I've not finished yet) and also with at least one of its paragraphs completely unreferenced. I think more care is needed. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 07:07, 23 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

DYK rules requires refs, but it does not require a ref for every paragraph. I think this is part of a trend to turn DYK into mini-GAs. I agree that this particular article should have had its grammar errors caught (I checked the two edits you made so far), but I also think some of the edits you made go beyond what is required for DYK, though they do improve it, they're not required for DYK. We need to keep in mind DYK is for new articles, not perfect ones. Yes, the standard should be higher than that for any new article, but we should not require them to be mini-GAs. — Rlevse • Talk • 09:24, 23 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I had approved the nomination and prior to doing so, did some copy-editing; mainly spelling and basic grammar. There was a lot of spelling and grammar errors and I obviously missed some. The author clearly isn't proficient in English but worked hard on the article.--NortyNort (Holla) 10:25, 23 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I understood that "one ref per para" was an accepted standard for DYK. Mjroots (talk) 13:59, 23 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Must be an unwritten rule because I checked the written rules and additional rules. Perhaps we should codify it if it is an unwritten rule. Sort of like "last hook must be quirky" is an unwritten rule. — Rlevse • Talk • 14:18, 23 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's D2. Shubinator (talk) 14:21, 23 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough, I stand corrected. I'd searched for "refer" for reference and that D2 uses "sources/citations". — Rlevse • Talk • 14:27, 23 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Halloween Prep Sets

I started putting the 37 approved Halloween hooks into 5 queues last night. There are none left on the noms page nor holding area, all are in the prep sets. Links are at: Wikipedia:Did_you_know/Halloween_2010#Halloween_DYK_Hooks_-_Prep_Sets. I went with 5 sets as instead of 4 as we'll probably get more noms in the coming week, it gives us more diversity, and the 5th set will run when it's still Halloween in North America, which is a big Halloween region. (Now April 1st we need to stick to the UTC times strictly). Right now sets 1 and 3 have 8 hooks and the others 7. The set's number (1-5) is the order I think it best for them to go live in. More eyes appreciated. — Rlevse • Talk • 12:43, 23 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Prep 3 hook topics

I think Prep 3 has too many scientific hooks. The lead hook is Earth's shadow, there's one about a mushroom, Mycena maculata, and three about marine animals: Protemblemaria perla, Marivagia stellata, and longhead catshark (the last two right next to each other). MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 18:55, 24 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Earth vs marine amimals vs mushrooms are vastly different. But I do think the three marine animal argument has merit, so I've moved Marivagia stellata to P4; swapping with a hook about cars. — Rlevse • Talk • 19:01, 24 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Shared authorship

Just curious as to whether this page history entitles me to a co-authorship credit, or does it just go to the article creator? Ghmyrtle (talk) 20:20, 24 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Are you planning on nominating it or something? Credit is really something that is up to you guys. If you feel that you are one of the significant contributors, feel free to nominate yourself as one. rʨanaɢ (talk) 20:57, 24 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's in Prep 1. I did mention it when nominating - but if it's been forgotten, it doesn't matter. Sniff. Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:07, 24 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You listed yourself as nominator rather than co-writer. In the future, if you feel you have made a substantial contribution and it's uncontroversial, you can just go ahead and list both yourself and the other writer as writers. rʨanaɢ (talk) 22:11, 24 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

False messiah

At queue 5, does "Jewish false messiah" have a consensus here? 50,000 Frankists thought he was a real messiah, so should it be "alleged Jewish messiah"? Art LaPella (talk) 05:13, 25 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I changed it to "Jewish Messiah claimant". Gatoclass (talk) 08:08, 25 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Get the facts straight

Just an idea. For future credits, should the fact they nominated and appeared on the front page also begiven to them as a reminder as part of the template? I.e.

instead of (taking one of my DYKs)

On August 3, 2010, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article New henge at Stonehenge, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check ) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

It is something like

On August 3, 2010, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article New henge at Stonehenge, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was "... that archaeologists have detected what they believe is a wooden henge underground near to Stonehenge?" You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check ) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Simply south (talk) 12:40, 25 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I assume you are referring to the credits you get on your talkpage? The tags on the article talkpages already do include the fact. rʨanaɢ (talk) 13:38, 25 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think this is a good idea: it won't be much extra work for the bot programmer to add this as a setting, I assume, and it has a small housekeeping advantage for those like me who keep a list of their hooks as displayed on the main page, in that we won't have to check the article talk page or the Recent Additions archives to see the final wording used. Bencherlite ^Talk 14:49, 25 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with Bencherlite, this would make my DYK housekeeping easier. Sasata (talk) 15:15, 25 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds sensible enough. Alzarian16 (talk) 15:23, 25 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hooks for specific dates

With the change to oldest-first at T:TDYK, I am wondering if there is a danger that hooks for specific dates will be skipped when preparing updates because the hooks are being selected from the top of the page. There are presently two unreviewed nominations (disclosure: one is mine) that I think are now past their requested time-slots. There are also quite a few nominations for the next week or so in the special timing section, so it seems to me that there is a potential for further examples. Would someone experienced with preparing updates please have a look? Thanks. EdChem (talk) 15:55, 26 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

EdChem, the 28 October hooks were only nominated on 24 October - less than 5 days before they are due to appear. So far, they still haven't missed a timeslot, but nomination for a specific day is best seen as a request rather than a guarantee. Mjroots (talk) 16:17, 26 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I do realise that my nom was only a request for 28 Oct, and that I may need to think of a different hook(s) for other dates. It is of course entirely up to reviewers to decide if my nom is even accepted. As for the more general point, Gerda Arendt's suggestion of some signal to remind editors preparing updates that a date-related request is pending sounds sensible and potentially helpful. EdChem (talk) 17:35, 26 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestions: a signal (at the top of the page?), both for unreviewed hooks in that section (disclosure: one is mine) and for the date of the next one coming up. One more suggestion: to place such hooks in the middle of the day when it is that day for most of the world. But in general I am quite happy, 1.2k for the last Bach cantata (BWV 109) was not bad. (That one was in the middle of the day, thanks!) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:58, 26 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have to be honest, I'm getting a little worried about the process now. Mine and EdChem's timed hook hasn't received a single review despite us asking for a slot in less than 24 hours. Paralympiakos (talk) 19:40, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Why don't you review each other's hooks? — Rlevse • Talk • 20:14, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The six-article multi-hook nomination was a joint nomination from Paralympiakos and me, so we can't review them. Paralympiakos' stand-alone hook has had a comment made, and I have made additions to the article to address the concern raised, so I consider myself ineligible to review it. Also, our collaboration over the previous month disqualifies me as a reviewer due to potential conflict of interest. EdChem (talk) 21:11, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination procedure for special timing hooks

A lot of the hooks in the holding area are yet to be reviewed. Should we make it clear (a written rule) that all new nominations, including ones for special timings, are to be nominated the regular way? The nominator can always add the request for the special time in his nomination. Once passed, he or the reviewer can then make the move to the holding area. This would seem to me to solve the issue of lack of reviews for special time hooks as has been raised here. Strange Passerby (talk • c • status) 12:30, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think that may work better, ie, put them in the regular nom sections, only moving them to holding after approval. — Rlevse • Talk • 11:17, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Should probably be made clear in the instructions then. Str Pby (talk) 12:59, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I had done so, nominate the regular way a hook about the St John Passion, asking for Good Friday, - it got "on" well after Easter, which made no sense. Then I asked if I should nominate in Special occasions to start with, so I did, and with some reminders it worked for all but one. Well, too bad that the 22nd Sunday after Trinity is also Halloween. I skipped Reformation Day for this year, to not make it even more complicated. Should I nominate now for 31 October 2011? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:25, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That's a year from now. But if you want to wait that long, go ahead. — Rlevse • Talk • 11:16, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

8 hooks or 9?

It seems to me it may be time to go back to 8 hooks per? Since it's getting hard to find a sufficent amount without overloading on bios. (And 8 hooks makes it easier to go "half bios/American, don't put bios/American next to each other if it can be helped"). - The Bushranger _{Return fire}^{Flank speed} 20:58, 26 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Stay with 9. We went to 8 about a month ago at this point and hooks shot over 200, that's with 4 prep sets constantly full. I think we don't need to go to 8 until we hit 140 noms or so. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:14, 26 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Gotcha, thanks. :) - The Bushranger _{Return fire}^{Flank speed} 21:15, 26 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It should also be noted that there are currently 36 Halloween hooks that will soon be moved to the queues. Combined with the current submissions, this means we are effectively around 200 hooks in the backlog. --Allen3 ^talk 21:31, 26 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Actually it's 37 hooks, in 5 sets, slightly over a day's worth. — Rlevse • Talk • 22:55, 26 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Question

I know we've had GAs on DYK before, but I wonder what list of 1936 Winter Olympics medal winners will make it to first, FL status or the Main Page? :) On a more serious note, in the unlikely event that it is promoted to FL before approval here, it wouldn't affect its eligibility, I hope. Str Pby (talk) 06:39, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn't think so. — Rlevse • Talk • 09:46, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

All right, thanks. Strange Passerby (talk • c • status) 12:31, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Question / Proposal re Prep 4

The lead hook in Prep 4 presently is:

... that ophanin, piscivorin, ablomin and triflin found in the venom of the King Cobra (pictured), the water moccasin, the Mamushi snake, and the Habu snake, respectively, are all cysteine-rich secretory proteins that can reduce muscle contractions?

I noticed it a couple of hours ago at T:TDYK and thought it was a nice example of collaboration (four articles from four different editors) and also that it was a shame it wouldn't have the fifth article to make it into the DYK Hall of Fame. So, I have started a new article cysteine-rich secretory proteins and I am suggesting that it might be added into this hook (assuming the other authors are agreeable, and that it meets DYK standards, of course).
I recognise that thie request is somewhat unusual - and I apologise if it is inappropriate. If the suggestion is unreasonable, I am willing to simply nominate cysteine-rich secretory proteins through the regular process and have it as a stand-alone DYK nom. However, I thought that combining it with the existing hook seems reasonable to at least suggest. I am suggesting the hook be changed to:

... that ophanin, piscivorin, ablomin and triflin found in the venom of the King Cobra (pictured), the water moccasin, the Mamushi snake, and the Habu snake, respectively, are all cysteine-rich secretory proteins that can reduce muscle contractions?

All of the venoms are mentioned in the CRISP article, all referenced. Thanks. EdChem (talk) 13:48, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I checked it out, and cysteine-rich secretory protein meets all of the DYK requirements. (Note: as a stand-alone, I think an interesting hook could be constructed about snake venom and human reproduction.) MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 18:58, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've asked PHFLai about this. — Rlevse • Talk • 20:13, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

And PHFLai gives his STRONG SUPPORT to this proposal. Nicely done, EdChem. I was thinking of doing the exact same things this past weekend, but I ran out of time. (Spent too much time playing with Chinese scorpions..., now on Q3) It's always nice to see things done the way I want without actually doing it myself, and I don't even have to ask anyone. Excellent! Thank you. If anyone feels like turning this quintuple-DYK into a sextuple-DYK hook for even more awesomeness, please add 450+ characters to the Latisemin article and add this to the hook with the Erabu sea snake. This snake has a cool pic, too. (pictured right) Happy editing. Cheers! --PFHLai (talk) 22:14, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Done Latisemin expanded (but will still need independent review / approval, of course), so the proposed 6-article hook would be...

... that ophanin, piscivorin, ablomin, latisemin and triflin found in the venom of the King Cobra (pictured), the water moccasin, the Mamushi snake, the Erabu sea snake and the Habu snake, respectively, are all cysteine-rich secretory proteins that can reduce muscle contractions?

Or, we could go with two hooks, one for now and one for the queue for later, being:

... that ophanin, piscivorin, ablomin, latisemin and triflin found in the venom of the King Cobra (pictured), the water moccasin, the Mamushi snake, the Erabu sea snake and the Habu snake, respectively, are all proteins that can reduce muscle contractions?

and

... that CRISPs are found primarily in mammalian semen and some snake venom?

This approach has the advantage of shortening the first hook, and it is still 5-articles, and allowing the catchier stand-alone hook for CRISPs. It has the disadvantage of being two hooks rather than one. Obviously, if the two hook approach is taken, the second hook would go back to the queue with a 28 October nomination to wait its turn. Either approach is fine with me. :) EdChem (talk) 23:05, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Latisemin Rules OK! And I support the Six-a-One Solution. ;) - The Bushranger _{Return fire}^{Flank speed} 23:17, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Mandarax, thanks for checking it out. As a stand-alone, I was planning to nominate the article with a hook like:

... that CRISPs are found primarily in two vertebrate products: mammalian semen and some snake venom?

or

... that CRISPs are found primarily in mammalian semen and some snake venom?

Whatever everyone thinks is best is fine with me. :) Thanks. EdChem (talk) 21:00, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'll strongly support adding it to the Prep 4 hook, for great awesomeness! - The Bushranger _{Return fire}^{Flank speed} 21:05, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've updated the 6in1 hook in prep 4. — Rlevse • Talk • 23:22, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks to Rlevse for updating the hook and The Bushranger for updating the Prep 4 dyk-makes. I was wondering whether PFHLai should also get dyk-nom credits for the two extra articles? EdChem (talk) 02:27, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, IMHO he shold for latisemin, since he suggested it here. But you came up with the CRISPS suggestion above. ;) - The Bushranger _{Return fire}^{Flank speed} 02:41, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have added a DYKnom for latisemin, as suggested. EdChem (talk) 03:03, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Althea Garrison

In regard to the hook for this article (an article I created and nominated), which is now at Prep area 3, I have been wondering for several days whether it is appropriate to use for a biography of a living person, in light of the fact that the person herself has never publicly confirmed the information. Granted, there are reliable sources which support the information, but I would appreciate it if some editors would take another look at the hook and the article itself before it goes live on the main page. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 14:40, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As the nominator, I am formally seeking to withdraw this hook from DYK consideration. I have removed it from Prep area 3 because I have too many doubts about its appropriateness in connection with a BLP. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 21:31, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Request for exception

I recently created an article on the tenor Andrew McKinley and I could nominate it now. However, I have plans to create articles on baritone David Aiken (currently a redirect to another person) and the bass Leon Lishner. These three men were the three kings in the original production of the classic Christmas opera Amahl and the Night Visitors. I would like to nominate them together and perhaps have it up on Christmas Eve this year at DYK, since the opera premiered on NBC Televison on December 24, 1951. I'm not sure how soon I can get to the other two. It may be a few weeks, at which point McKinley will be past the nomination deadline.4meter4 (talk) 21:41, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There is a special occasions holding area on the nominations page. I would recommend nominating the McKinley article now and putting it in the holding area for December 24. I would also recommend adding a comment that you expect to be able to have an alternate hook later that will incorporate two other articles in the works about other performers in the same premiere of the same opera so that anyone reviewing the hook will understand your plan. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 22:21, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I followed your advice.4meter4 (talk) 02:14, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I Hear You, I See You

I rejected this nomination earlier today for being submitted past the 5 day deadline... yet somehow it is now in the queue. Why is this?4meter4 (talk) 00:58, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No idea (I didn't build the set), but can you post a diff of your rejection? — Rlevse • Talk • 01:00, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'd assume that Additional Rule D9 might have been in play? - The Bushranger _{Return fire}^{Flank speed} 01:01, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

checks* Yeah, pretty sure it was D9'd... - The Bushranger _{Return fire}^{Flank speed} 01:04, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sure. See the difference here. I'm not incredibly upset over having it included, but it seemed a mystery to me that there was no comment made by the person who reversed my decision.4meter4 (talk) 01:07, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't speak Swahili, I enforce the 5-day rule. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:11, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Neither do I. lol Hence why I brought this up here.4meter4 (talk) 01:16, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The hook appears in prep 4 this time yesterday, so maybe there was a double nomination of it? Str Pby (talk) 01:38, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it was originally nominated 12 hours after creation, and approved about five days later. Perhaps after it was moved to prep, the user didn't realize why it was no longer on the page, and renominated it with a slightly different hook. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 08:45, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

1366 Technologies

This article is currently in queue 5 but there was an unresolved issue with the hook (see the section in this version just before it was moved to prep). The "cutting costs for such cells by 40% and making the power generated from the cells cheaper than from coal" is not suitably sourced IMO as it is based on what the company has said and obviously they will be trying to big up their own product. I suggest removing this from the hook, but that makes it rather dull. Shall we move it back to T:TDYK so it can be discussed properly? Smartse (talk) 11:22, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Just realised the 40% claim is totally unsourced in the article as well, so it definitely needs removing from the queue. Smartse (talk) 20:34, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Queue 3

{{editprotected}} T:TDYK#Dragan Tešanović has been reviewed and it is requested that it be on the main page on 29 October, 1:00am (queue 3). Can an admin please slot it in? Thanks, Adabow (talk · contribs) 03:45, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Done — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 10:41, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have a problem with this. If a nomination is approved late, we shouldn't be bending over backwards just to accomodate a special request timing. Furthermore, the usage of the editprotected template and subsequent intervention by an admin who does not normally frequent DYK was inappropriate. A hook already in queue should not be retrned to the nom page if here is nothing wrong with it. Furthermore this hook has been waiting in the noms since Oct 21 and will now have an extra wait. I call for this action to be undone and consider this a very strong protest from someone not involved in that article, nom, review or promotion. Str Pby (talk) 11:39, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

More importantly, the hook was swapped in twice, by two different people, and is now in Queue 3 twice. Also, the first time it was swapped, the credit templates were not taken care of, so there is an erroneous DYKmake and DYKnom for Mac Morgan. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 11:54, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. I think we can make an effort to fit hooks into time-sensitive slots such as this. It won't hurt Mac Morgan to wait a few more hours; she's been in the queue for a week. And using {{editprotected}} for urgently needed interventions is also appropriate, although I apologise for forgetting to change the DYKmake templates. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 15:53, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As the author of Mr. Mac Morgan's article (he is male) I personally don't care when he hits the mainpage just as long as he does eventually. However, when swapping hooks please make sure you select topics which are diverse from the ones in the various queues. I had to move Mac again because there were too many opera singer hooks together. Cheers.4meter4 (talk) 16:00, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

9 minutes to go and still not added to the queue

I hate to be "that guy", I really do, but myself and EdChem added our joint hook days ago, yet it has not received any sort of view. We asked for a specific time and that time is 9 minutes away, yet the hook hasn't been moved to the queue. Can someone please deal with this now as it is rather urgent. Apologies for the nagging, but this has been kept waiting too long. Thank you. Paralympiakos (talk) 11:55, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Additionally, my other hook for Dragan Tesanovic is currently in queue 3, which wasn't what I requested. I requested queue 2, so if that change could possibly be made, it would be great, otherwise I'll have to change the wording of the hook, as the event will be passed. Paralympiakos (talk) 12:05, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Dragan Tesanovic has been moved to Q2, and one of Q2's hooks sent to Q3. Courcelles 12:23, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

But, as I mentioned two threads above, the hook was in the queue twice, so it's still in Queue 3 once. Also, the DYKmake now in Queue 2 is for Dragan Tesanovic, and I don't know if the bot properly handles the redirect to Dragan Tešanović. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 12:35, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Caught that. Removed it from Q3, and promoted something else. Resolved redirect for the bot. Courcelles 12:38, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Now there's an erroneous DYKmake left over for My Week with Marilyn in Queue 2, as well as the two credit templates for Mac Morgan in Queue 3 which I mentioned in the thread above. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 12:49, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. What do you suggest now for the joint hook with me and EdChem? Are we going to have to alter the hook wording and apply for another slot? Paralympiakos (talk) 12:25, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

We can't have two MMA hooks in the same queue, sorry. Courcelles 12:39, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Not much we can do now, but the original slot requested for the joint nom was the update that is presently live. Just noting we didn't ask for two MMA hooks in one queue, FYI. EdChem (talk) 12:55, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Paralympiakos, I agree it is disappointing that the hook will need redrafting, but it's not the end of the world. We can redraft once the results are known fairly easily. Remember that everyone here is a volunteer, and we should have made the nomination a couple of days earlier - blame me if you like. Reviewers are free to review what they choose, and I am certainly grateful for their efforts. I think the issue here (other than some tardiness on my part) is the change in page layout making the date-specific nominations less prominent. I am glad your Dragan Tešanović hook will get its requested slot, it was nominated in plenty of time. Moving our nom back to the regular queue isn't too difficult. Personally, I think the concern here is whether the new layout of T:TDYK makes the DYK community less aware of those date-specific nominations, and how to reduce the chances of nominations like yours of Tešanović slipping through the cracks. EdChem (talk) 12:50, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure whether something on the page has changed or whether I monumentally screwed up, but the Dragan nom is now in the wrong queue. If this is my fault, then I apologise wholeheartedly, but I hoped for the London 1am queue, whereas it is in the 7pm queue presently. If possible, could you revert the previous changes and put it back in queue 3? I'm sorry about this. Paralympiakos (talk) 12:57, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, on second thoughts, it's going to create too much hassle for admins and too much displeasure towards me, so if things are in order at the moment, then just leave them as is. We just need to sort out the joint hook that is still over the time limit. Paralympiakos (talk) 13:31, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

So Adabow's original request above was actually correct? I'd change it over but I'm afraid of making a mistake again! And anyway 6 hours does not make much difference I think. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 15:58, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think so, yes. That was some terrible eyesight by myself and I take full responsibility for this screw up. Anyway, as before, if someone could recommend the next course of action regarding the 28 October 1AM hook, I'd appreciate it. I'm no longer in a rush since the event is taking place now, but I'm keen to avoid the hook being disqualified for hook timing reasons. Paralympiakos (talk) 16:04, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There is no need to stress about the hook being disqualified for hook timing reasons as we have until the end of 29 October (UTC) - more than 24 hours from now - to place the nom in the regular queue and still fulfill the rules, assuming it presently being in the special area were taken as insufficient for satisfying the 5 day rule. We'll soon have the fight results, and we can re-cast the hook, update the articles, and hopefully get the hook into the queue. EdChem (talk) 16:48, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Queue 3 fix

Queue 3 has an erroneous DYKmake and DYKnom for Mac Morgan. The hook was moved and is currently in Prep 2, with the proper credits. (I mentioned this above, but I guess it got lost among other discussions, or people assumed someone else had fixed it.) MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 19:11, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

removed. Courcelles 19:34, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Halloween Hold on Prep Set building

The two queues (4 and 1) just built by Alansohn will go live on 31 Oct, which is when the 5 Halloween prep sets we have saved up will start going live. Therefore, I'm putting the two he built into temp holding pages and will start moving the Halloween sets in. Of course, others are welcome to move the Halloween sets in too, but keep in mind I built them in the order I thought best to see them on the main page, ie, Halloween P1 gets loaded first, HP2 loaded second and so on. The 5th set will appear on 1 Nov UTC time but it'll still be Halloween in North America. Cheers. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:03, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Link to where I've stored the two sets he created is here: Wikipedia:Did_you_know/Halloween_2010/After_Halloween — Rlevse • Talk • 21:14, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Copyvio notification

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Not a very good stock template, but apprently I was expected to notify, so I'm doing it. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:41, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 465: / Line 465: @@
 The two queues (4 and 1) just built by Alansohn will go live on 31 Oct, which is when [[Wikipedia:Did_you_know/Halloween_2010#Halloween_DYK_Hooks_-_Prep_Sets|the 5 Halloween prep sets we have saved up]] will start going live. Therefore, I'm putting the two he built into temp holding pages and will start moving the Halloween sets in. Of course, others are welcome to move the Halloween sets in too, but keep in mind I built them in the order I thought best to see them on the main page, ie, Halloween P1 gets loaded first, HP2 loaded second and so on. The 5th set will appear on 1 Nov UTC time but it'll still be Halloween in North America. Cheers. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 21:03, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
 ::Link to where I've stored the two sets he created is here: [[Wikipedia:Did_you_know/Halloween_2010/After_Halloween]] <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 21:14, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
+== Copyvio notification ==
+==Copyright problem: Malta Test Station==
+Hello, and [[Wikipedia:Welcome, newcomers|welcome to Wikipedia]]! We welcome and appreciate your contributions, such as [[Malta Test Station]], but we regretfully cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from either web sites or printed material. This article appears to be a copy from {{{url}}}, and therefore a [[Wikipedia:Copyright violations|copyright violation]]. The copyrighted text has been or will soon be deleted. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with our [[Wikipedia:Copyrights|copyright policy]]. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators are liable to be [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked]] from editing.
+If you believe that the article is ''not'' a copyright violation, or if you have permission from the copyright holder to release the content freely under license allowed by Wikipedia, then you should do one of the following:
+:*If you have permission from the author to release the text under the [[Wikipedia:Text of Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License|Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]] (CC-BY-SA), leave a message explaining the details at [[Talk:Malta Test Station]] and send an email with confirmation of permission to "permissions-en (at) wikimedia (dot) org". Make sure you quote the exact page name, '''Malta Test Station''', in your email. '''See [[Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission]] for instructions.'''
+:*If a note on the original website states that re-use is permitted ''"under the [[Wikipedia:Text of Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License|Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]] (CC-BY-SA), version 3.0'', or that the material is ''released into the public domain'' leave a note at [[Talk:Malta Test Station]] with a link to where we can find that note.
+:*If you own the copyright to the material: send an e-mail from an address associated with the original publication to permissions-en(at)wikimedia(dot)org ''or'' a postal message to the [[wmf:Contact_us|Wikimedia Foundation]] permitting re-use ''under the [[Wikipedia:Text of Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License|Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]] and [[Wikipedia:Text of GNU Free Documentation License|GNU Free Documentation License]]'', and note that you have done so on [[Talk:Malta Test Station]]. '''See [[Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials]] for instructions.'''
+It may also be necessary for the text be modified to have an encyclopedic tone and to follow [[Wikipedia:Guide to layout|Wikipedia article layout]]. For more information on Wikipedia's policies, see [[Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines|Wikipedia's policies and guidelines]].
+If you would like to begin working on a new version of the article you may do so at [{{fullurl:Talk:Malta Test Station/Temp|action=edit&preload=Template:Copyvio/preload}} this temporary page]. Leave a note at [[Talk:Malta Test Station]] saying you have done so and an administrator will move the new article into place once the issue is resolved.
+Thank you, and please feel welcome to continue contributing to Wikipedia. Happy editing!<!-- Template:Nothanks-web -->
+Not a very good stock template, but apprently I was expected to notify, so I'm doing it.  [[User:SandyGeorgia|Sandy<font color="green">Georgia</font>]] ([[User talk:SandyGeorgia|Talk]]) 21:41, 28 October 2010 (UTC)