Talk:Natural rubber

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Untitled[edit]

crap seems to be a great deal of stuff here that is overlapping with the latex page. There should be some better coordination between these two. Also it is worth noting that there are many types of rubber aside from Latex that are not addressed by this article. I almost think that a great deal of this content should be merged into the Latex page. Locke9k


The following was moved from the aricle page: olivier 04:48 Nov 27, 2002 (UTC)

Can anyone expand on this article? I wrote the very first bit, but I have no information on how synthetic rubber is produced! Mark Ryan

Can anyone please expand the uses section of this page?--Brijeshhsejirb 05:37, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Synthetic Rubber is a big subject, covered by Polymer Science and Rubber Technology. I have added a note to that effect. G4sxe 18:45, 5 January 2006 (UTC)G4sxe

I have a half-memory that the seeds were initially smuggled out of Brazil, which, if true, would be the most profitable act of industrial espionage of all time... I need to check on this -- Malcolm Farmer

Henry Wickham gathered thousands of seeds from Brazil in 1876. They were germinated in Kew Gardens, England and the seedlings were sent to Colombo,Indonesia and Singapore. I will add this to the article. user:g4sxe


I am trying to understand why half of the world's rubber is produced synthetically. Is synthetic rubber cheaper or more expensive than natural one? Is it better or worse than natural one? Is not enough natural one produced in the world? AxelBoldt 10:43, 5 May 2004 (UTC)

Natural Rubber is best for low heat build up and is used in truck tire treads and the carcasses of both truck and car tires. Synthetic rubber is used for car tire treads, as much for wet grip as economy. user:g4sxe


I believe that for one thing synthetic rubber has reduced allergy potential due to the fact that allergic reaction to natural rubber is actually a reaction to certain non-rubber proteins produced by the plant. Unfortunately I can't remember my reference for this and therefore can't be sure it is accurate. user:locke9k

Edit[edit]

I moved the recent addition on Asian natural rubber to the previous paragraph, which deals with natural [rubber]. I removed the blight concern and link, because there is nothing remarkable that people might be concerned with a crop blight: this is true for any crop, and unless we go into it in some depth — which would be interesting — the squib of sentence was not useful. The link was to a syllabus; from long experience on my own website, syllabus pages very often disappear when the quarter or semester is over. — Bill 17:20, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC) Monkey D. Luffy is made of it.

Synthetic vs Natural[edit]

Synthetic rubbers have fundamentally different properties to natural rubbers and are therefore used for different purposes. For example, nitrile rubber has decreased permeability to many solvents and increased abrasion resistance.

I'd suggest the article needs an update as natural rubber and synthetic rubbers need to be more clearly delineated. Also a short monologue on chemical additives and potential allergies would be of use as they are of fundamental importance to a significant minority (natural rubber can cause a potentially fatal allergy).

I will try to address this in the coming weeks.

--John Spashett 09:29, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Where can i found Kautschuk?

What about the use of Natural rubber to augment synthetic rubber properties?

[1] states

Around 30,000 everyday products contain natural rubber, everything from car tires, catheter tubes, latex gloves to tops for drinks bottles. Car tires, for instance, would not be elastic enough without the incorporation of natural rubber.

This seems to be to be missing from the article: there is not just synthetic, and natural rubber, but there is also widespread use of natural rubber to alter the properties of synthetic rubber: complexes of both. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.240.104.100 (talk) 06:48, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

To distinguish the tree-obtained version of natural rubber from the synthetic version, the term gum rubber is sometimes used.

Which one is gum rubber? Natural or synthetic? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.169.2.66 (talk) 16:52, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Kautschuk[edit]

C an you help me? I want to know something about Kautschuk.

The spelling is Caoutchouc. Caoutchouc is a vegetable gum produced by certain South American trees.

Caoutchouc was named rubber in 1770 by the English chemist Insert non-formatted text here, because it was used to rub out black lead marks. G4sxe 19:03, 5 January 2006 (UTC)G4sxe

India rubber[edit]

What is India rubber? It doesn't have an entry and could do with one. Cutler 08:06, July 30, 2005 (UTC)

India rubber comes from the India Rubber Tree, Ficus elastica. The milky sap or latex was once an important source of natural rubber, but it was of inferior quality.G4sxe 00:26, 6 January 2006 (UTC)g4sxe

Theory behind elasticity[edit]

Does anyone know exactly why rubber streches? what are the mechanics involved? i have heard two theories, and i was wondering which of them (if either) is true:

  • elasticity is caused by the bonds along the carbon backbone of a polymer bending back and form, with the bonds always reforming the prefered angle of 109°
  • carbon to carbon bonds stretching laterally, with the electrostatic attraction reasserting the original dimensions

i realise that they are both very similar, and in reality the reasoning is probably somewhere inbetween. could an expert please explain, and type it into the article? cheers, mastodon 20:50, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Both theories are incorrect. The reason rubber stretches is mainly entropic (straightening of chains), not electrostatic (bending and stretching of bonds). See article. Klafubra 19:25, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

The section needs to be expanded to include disulfide bonds as well as glass transition temperature. Isopropyl 05:33, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Why does the rubber erases the pencil?[edit]

Does anyone know exactly why rubber erases the pencil? what is the phenomenom? What are the forces involved?

Illustration[edit]

Someone should juxtapose a picture of a condom with that of the eraser. The subtitle, of course, would be "Rubber (American English)". I'd do it, but somehow it seems like I should first check to see if anyone thinks it to be too crude.

I'd like to see a mention, disamb or otherwise (at the top?) about condoms on here... Because if you were an ignorant HS student from a religiously intolerent state opposed to family planning (heh) you might've only heard the euphemism, and thus would be unable to find the information you were looking for.
I think a picture might be going over the top, however :)
~ender 2006-10-15 19:42:PM MST

Latex is an emulsion?[edit]

I'm certainly no expert on this, but isn't an emulsion a liquid suspended in a liquid? If referring to suspended rubber particles (as the entry does), surely colloid, or merely dispersion, would be a more accurate term?

I checked it out, and as I suspected, you are correct. (see http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9369794). I have updated the article. Verdatum 16:32, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Latex Vs. Rubber[edit]

This article fails to explain how rubber differs from latex. On the contrary it insinuates they are one and the same. Is there a distinction? If not, shouldn't the two articles be merged?Verdatum 21:17, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Alright, I'm in the process of editing the latex article to focus on the dictionary definition of a rubber polymer suspended in an aqueous solution. As such, latex is a raw material used to produce rubber. -Verdatum (talk) 18:15, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Other uses/properties of rubber[edit]

Quite an interesting article so far but lots more could be added. For example: use of rubber in civil engineering (shock absorbers for bridges etc), vehicle tyres/tires (frictional properties especially when wet), deterioration with time and exposure to sunlight (?UV). Substitutes (especially electrical insulation used to be rubber but is now PVC, PTFE etc). How is it affected by temperature? ChrisAngove 17:08, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Dry rot[edit]

Does anyone know exactly what happens to rubber that causes dry rot? That info would go well in this article and/or the dry rot article. -SCEhardT 04:52, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Indian Rubber Board: why should it be here?[edit]

I fail to understand the rational behind having a separate section on "Indian Rubber Board" between the collection and chemical make up sections. Is it Vandalism? I am sure Malaysia and other big producers have similar authorities, shoule we talk about all of them? if we have to talk about indian rubber board should not this be part of the history section? Omar 18:47, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Polyisoprene[edit]

The polyisoprene link points here, yet there is almost no discussion of synthetic polyisoprene. We need a separate entry on polyisoprene.

And agreeing with the comments above, there is little coordination between the rubber, elastomer, and latex pages.Delmlsfan 22:53, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

This is a good point, particularly since this article was moved from 'rubber' to 'natural rubber' but I'm not sure there is enough content to require a separate article for polyisoprene. I'll add the content regarding polyisoprene here. -Verdatum (talk) 17:29, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
According to some sources, polyisoprene is natural rubber, but according to others, it's not latex. And then there's synthetic polyisoprene. I'm confused. Can someone clarify, either in this article, or in a separate? --HelgeStenstrom (talk) 08:50, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Recent news[edit]

Taken from http://technology.newscientist.com/article/dn13354

"Regular rubber gets its strength from the fact that long chains of polymer molecules are coupled, or "crosslinked," in three different ways: through covalent, ionic, and hydrogen bonding between molecules.

Of these three bond types, only the hydrogen bonds can be remade once a material is fractured, although normally there are not enough hydrogen bonds for the rubber to re-couple in this way."

Seems like a good explanation of the physical properties.


JD (talk) 15:00, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Elasticity section[edit]

"This change in entropy can also be explained by the fact that a tight section of chain can fold in fewer ways (W) than a loose section of chain, at a given temperature (nb. entropy is defined as S=k*ln(W))"

This is the correct explanation not the stuff about conversion of the kinetic energy of the chains into heat energy which doesn't make sense as they're the same thing.

Additionally this section would possibly be better placed in elastomers as it applies to all elastomers not just rubber. 137.205.78.240 (talk) 11:45, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

"entropy model of rubber"[edit]

The introduction references the "entropy model of rubber", but never explains what it is. Fuzzform (talk) 07:29, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

gy55 is an example of natural rubber —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.50.172.106 (talk) 23:39, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

The sentence: "The entropy model of rubber was developed in 1934 by Werner Kuhn" in the opening paragraph of the article feels tacked on to make someone sound important but is not relevant enough to need to be before the TOC. It should be moved down toward the entropy discussion later in the article. Recurve7 (talk) 20:13, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Caucho[edit]

Why does Caucho redirect here? The word does not appear in the article. Mathiastck (talk) 22:12, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Rubber woman[edit]

The term 'rubber woman' is related to this topic - maybe it deserves some coverage? (there's some disambiguation as well - e.g.: 'contortionist' and 'prosthetic woman') Actually is there any record of a model of a woman actually made from rubber (sort-of like a rubber water bag in shape of a woman - actually to be filled with water)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.86.77.55 (talk) 16:27, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

I've never heard the term "rubber woman" used. It doesn't sound worth mentioning on an article related to the raw material. -Verdatum (talk) 16:53, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Pr-historical uses[edit]

Mayans are not pre-historical. They were not cave people. In fact, it wasn't the Mayans who created the rubber ball game, it was the Olmecs, a much older civilization in Mesoamerica. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.44.93.16 (talk) 07:21, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Prehistoric means "prior to a system of writing". The fact uses the date of 1200 BC. The oldest dated evidence of Mayan writing is 400 BC. So yes, 1200 BC would be prehistoric. That being said, the fact is unsourced, and certainly questionable. If you have a source for the fact about the Olmec rubber ball game, then I'm totally in favor of replacing it. So where did you learn this? -Verdatum (talk) 17:05, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

actually the Cascajal block has been tentatively dated to between 1300 and 1000 BC, so 1200 BC, is likely not pre-historic. 71.161.209.199 (talk) 17:30, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Lack of a history section[edit]

I just deleted the text:

The para rubber tree initially grew in South America, and the first European to return to Portugal from Brazil with samples of water-repellent rubberized cloth so shocked people that he was brought to court on the charge of witchcraft.

This seemed extremely improbable for several reasons, so I added a citation request in August 2009. After 8 months no evidence has been found to support it. Additionally, reading a different site [1] suggests that the first person to introduce rubber to the Iberian Peninsula was Christopher Columbus, who was certainly not charged with witchcraft.

Having done that, reading of the azom.com history section suggests that our article is very incomplete on the history of rubber. "Discovery of commercial potential" sort of serves as a history section, but we do not mention the early Spanish-Mexican fabric waterproofing industry, development of rubber solvents and macintosh fabric, vulcanization, inflatable boats, the Stevenson Plan ... hardly anything actually.

I will try to add a bit when I get time, but I don't get much free time these days so I also encourage others to seek our referenced sources on the history of rubber! -- 202.63.39.58 (talk) 23:15, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

The following text has been moved from the article on Foam rubber, where it seemed out of place. Perhaps it can be worked into this article... Records trace back to as early as 500 B.C.E. During this period Mayans and Aztecs harvested this latex for waterproofing and formation of children’s toy spheres. Charles Goodyear invention of the vulcanization process for rubber in 1839 gave him the vision of a world filled with uses for this new durable elastic material. His ideas for chairs and mattresses made out of rubber were not seen until far after his death though.[2] The first United States patent was issued in the early 1900s for synthetic rubber. AresLiam (talk) 03:12, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

ZH redirect[edit]

Please stop direct this page to zh:橡膠. Natural rubber should direct to zh:天然橡膠. Thx, --RayYung (talk) 03:03, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Correction: How do I stop bots from changing the wrong Interlanguage links? --RayYung (talk) 03:57, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Sanoopj[edit]

User:Sanoopj seems to be attempting some sort of vandalism from India. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.143.233.112 (talk) 12:02, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Etymology of "caoutchouc"[edit]

Will this article eventually be edited to explain the etymology of the word "caoutchouc"? Jarble (talk) 00:48, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

'pannel' ?[edit]

The article states "is usual to tap a pannel at least twice, sometimes three times, during the tree's life" but the article gives no clue what a pannel is or what this means. I am unable to find any explanation of this on the web either, and the article doesn't seem to offer much context. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.151.101.218 (talk) 08:03, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Cultivation[edit]

This section only discusses cultivation of Hevea brasiliensis, however rubber plantations composed of nothing but Parthenium argentatum or Taraxacum kok-saghyz also exist.[3] These are btw noted as being much more environmentally friendly as they can be grown in locations where little else grows (ie steppes) rather than in rainforests.

Mention in article. 81.247.175.111 (talk) 11:28, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Leaf blight[edit]

The link for leaf blight led to the wrong pathogen--Phomopsis obscurans of strawberry. The South American leaf blight of rubber is Microcyclus ulei. (leaf blight is a general term for a type of symptom--many pathogens have such unhelpful common names). There is no Microcyclus ulei page yet, and I'm not up to creating one, so I removed the link. Lreuber (talk) 22:50, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

guayule hypoallergenicity[edit]

While trying to verify the claims that guayule is 'hypoallergenic', what I actually found was evidence[4] that it can cause extreme allergic reactions--merely different ones from those found in natural rubber latex. Therefore, someone who is allergic to natural latex will not be allergic (at least at first) to guayule rubber, but that's quite different from being hypoallergenic.[5] I have modified the claims in the article accordingly. JDowning (talk) 06:03, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Inconsistencies[edit]

This article needs reviewing for inconsistencies, e.g.

section: Contemporary manufacturing "Around 70 percent of the world's natural rubber is used in tires."

section: Vulcanization "Today, all vehicle tires are made of synthetic rubbers." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.159.59.5 (talk) 11:26, 14 October 2013 (UTC)


Requested move 22 February 2014[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Disambiguation at the base title "Rubber" -- for which there was some support expressed -- could be undertaken as an editorial action. The consensus is that the current title accurately reflects the article's subject, and naturally disambiguates in anticipation of other articles concerning other types of rubber. Xoloz (talk) 17:26, 18 March 2014 (UTC)



Natural rubberRubber – So long as it redirects here, what is the point of putting "natural" on the front of it? A comparable case is leather. Srnec (talk) 19:22, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Survey[edit]

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.
  • Oppose - Natural rubber is a large topic space in its own right, and quite distinct from broader topics like Rubber, Elastomers, Polymers - AresLiam (talk) 23:39, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Comment I don't really know what is right, but if iy is like Ares Liam says, then "rubber" should be redirected to "rubber (disambiguation)" in stead of to "natural rubber". Bandy boy (talk) 01:09, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
    • I agree. Either natural rubber should be moved to rubber or rubber (disambiguation) should be moved to rubber. The status quo does nothing for readers. —  AjaxSmack  03:13, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
      • The status quo was created by an undiscussed move on 11 August 2008‎ from Rubber to Natural rubber. To me, that's like moving Leather to Genuine leather. —Srnec (talk) 19:34, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
        • the status quo has held for 6 years, even though this article sees 1200 views per day, and has received ~250 edits/year from scores of contributors?!? I respectfully submit that this is because the title change to Natural Rubber was in fact an obvious and important improvement, consistent with the Precision goal of WP:Article titles naming conventions. AresLiam (talk) 13:39, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Support; alternately, a WP:DABCONCEPT might work. Red Slash 03:47, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose much rubber used is not natural rubber, it's synthetic. Further, many of the other uses are for latex. Either replace with the disambiguation page, or create a DABCONCEPT article. As we don't have one now, replace with the disambiguation page. -- 70.50.151.11 (talk) 11:07, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Support. I've thought this for some time & appreciate the move proposal. The status quo, while it may be technically correct, is not helpful. Thanks, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 10:23, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
    • perhaps a few words early in the article to articulate how Natural rubber is distinct from rubber in general would satisfy your concern? I am a 20 year veteran of the tire industry, and I feel strongly that moving this content to the general heading 'rubber' will damage wikipedia's coverage of the rubber sector. AresLiam (talk) 14:05, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
      • Do we need an article on the different kinds of rubber, then? We appear to be missing that right now. bd2412 T 14:52, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
        • wp already has articles on many different types of rubber, see below in discussion. I agree with the idea of a disambig page, or even better, a high level article on Rubber in general that would tie everything together.AresLiam (talk) 22:29, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
          • A convincing argument, AresLiam. I agree that WP does need a higher level article, Rubber, that is not a redirect. Perhaps starting with a high-level disambiguation page? Thanks, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 22:00, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
            • What is elastomer if not that high-level article? Srnec (talk) 22:27, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
              • I agree that the article at Elastomer is a start on the right kind of high-level treatment. As to whether its better to use the title Rubber or Elastomer, I'm not sure. "Rubber" is the older and probably more common word (taking its name from the fact that one of its first uses was as an eraser), but "elastomer" is the more scientific word (ie elastic + polymer). AresLiam (talk) 00:51, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
  • Comment the page is about natural rubber — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.120.175.135 (talk) 20:20, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose'. The article is about natural rubber, not synthetic rubbers. Removing the word "natural" misleads the reader into expecting an article about the many different types of rubber. However, the Rubber page should be a dab page. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 03:01, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose - The topic "rubber" covers both the natural rubber and synthetic rubber. Elastomer is an overarching topic that includes not just all kinds of rubber but many other types of elastic materials as well. Natural rubber is the topic of this article and "natural rubber" is a natural disambiguation of the topic. Jojalozzo 03:30, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Discussion[edit]

Any additional comments:
  • Natural rubber is an agricultural product and a widely used engineering material. It is distinct from synthetic elastomers in how it is produced, in its mechanical properties, in the applications where it is used.AresLiam (talk) 23:49, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
    • We know that. Rubber is distinct from synthetic elastomers. Srnec (talk) 06:08, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Re: the comparison between Leather vs Genuine Leather and Rubber vs. Natural rubber. In case of leather, 'genuine' is an adjective used merely as a marketing word. In contrast, 'Natural rubber' is a technical term describing a USD 100 billion / year agricultural industry, a specific material that is widely used in engineering, and which is distinct from tens of other types of rubbers. To name a few: Styrene-butadiene rubber, nitrile rubber, EPDM rubber, butyl rubber, chloroprene rubber. AresLiam (talk) 13:56, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
  • I've been struggling with what to do about these articles for years. Some people user "Rubber" to refer to any "elastomere". Some use it to refer specifically to natural rubber. Some use it to refer to pencil erasers. Sometimes I'll see it referring to isoprene, the main component of natural rubber, regardless of being natural or synthetic. Then there is the term "latex", which very frequently used to refer to rubber latex, but can also refer to other colloids that are obtained from plants. I don't think WP:COMMON applies here, since common names are only applicable in the appropriate context. I think that "natural rubber" is an appropriate name for this article; it easily clarifies exactly what this article is about. I'm currently leaning towards a preference of "rubber" being a disambiguation page, pointing people to the aforementioned articles. Alternatively, I'd not be opposed to the synthetic rubber article being modified to have a summary of the natural rubber article and moving all the over to rubber so that there is an article giving an overview of all types of rubber; but this would take a decent amount of editing. -Verdatum (talk) 23:09, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
  • There is a comparable situation at guitar; it used to refer only to acoustic guitar, but nowadays electric guitars are just as widespread. There, we have three articles, (the one at acoustic guitar is least developed). Maybe it would make sense to repeat the same here, i.e. split the current article into Rubber, with brief history, common uses and physical properties, and natural rubber, focusing on that specific type. The current article goes back and forth between these two terms anyway. No such user (talk) 10:36, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.