|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Natural rubber article.|
|Natural rubber has been listed as a level-3 vital article in Technology. If you can improve it, please do. This article has been rated as B-Class.|
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|On February 22, 2014, it was proposed that this article be moved to . The result of the debate was not moved.|
- 1 Untitled
- 2 Synthetic vs Natural
- 3 Kautschuk
- 4 India rubber
- 5 Theory behind elasticity
- 6 Why does the rubber erases the pencil?
- 7 Illustration
- 8 Latex is an emulsion?
- 9 Latex Vs. Rubber
- 10 Other uses/properties of rubber
- 11 Dry rot
- 12 Indian Rubber Board: why should it be here?
- 13 Polyisoprene
- 14 Recent news
- 15 Elasticity section
- 16 "entropy model of rubber"
- 17 Caucho
- 18 Rubber woman
- 19 Pr-historical uses
- 20 Lack of a history section
- 21 ZH redirect
- 22 Sanoopj
- 23 Etymology of "caoutchouc"
- 24 'pannel' ?
- 25 Cultivation
- 26 Leaf blight
- 27 guayule hypoallergenicity
- 28 Inconsistencies
- 29 Requested move 22 February 2014
crap seems to be a great deal of stuff here that is overlapping with the latex page. There should be some better coordination between these two. Also it is worth noting that there are many types of rubber aside from Latex that are not addressed by this article. I almost think that a great deal of this content should be merged into the Latex page. Locke9k
The following was moved from the aricle page: olivier 04:48 Nov 27, 2002 (UTC)
Can anyone expand on this article? I wrote the very first bit, but I have no information on how synthetic rubber is produced! Mark Ryan
Can anyone please expand the uses section of this page?--Brijeshhsejirb 05:37, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Synthetic Rubber is a big subject, covered by Polymer Science and Rubber Technology. I have added a note to that effect. G4sxe 18:45, 5 January 2006 (UTC)G4sxe
I have a half-memory that the seeds were initially smuggled out of Brazil, which, if true, would be the most profitable act of industrial espionage of all time... I need to check on this -- Malcolm Farmer
Henry Wickham gathered thousands of seeds from Brazil in 1876. They were germinated in Kew Gardens, England and the seedlings were sent to Colombo,Indonesia and Singapore. I will add this to the article. user:g4sxe
I am trying to understand why half of the world's rubber is produced synthetically. Is synthetic rubber cheaper or more expensive than natural one? Is it better or worse than natural one? Is not enough natural one produced in the world? AxelBoldt 10:43, 5 May 2004 (UTC)
Natural Rubber is best for low heat build up and is used in truck tire treads and the carcasses of both truck and car tires. Synthetic rubber is used for car tire treads, as much for wet grip as economy. user:g4sxe
I believe that for one thing synthetic rubber has reduced allergy potential due to the fact that allergic reaction to natural rubber is actually a reaction to certain non-rubber proteins produced by the plant. Unfortunately I can't remember my reference for this and therefore can't be sure it is accurate. user:locke9k
I moved the recent addition on Asian natural rubber to the previous paragraph, which deals with natural [rubber]. I removed the blight concern and link, because there is nothing remarkable that people might be concerned with a crop blight: this is true for any crop, and unless we go into it in some depth — which would be interesting — the squib of sentence was not useful. The link was to a syllabus; from long experience on my own website, syllabus pages very often disappear when the quarter or semester is over. — Bill 17:20, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC) Monkey D. Luffy is made of it.
Synthetic vs Natural
Synthetic rubbers have fundamentally different properties to natural rubbers and are therefore used for different purposes. For example, nitrile rubber has decreased permeability to many solvents and increased abrasion resistance.
I'd suggest the article needs an update as natural rubber and synthetic rubbers need to be more clearly delineated. Also a short monologue on chemical additives and potential allergies would be of use as they are of fundamental importance to a significant minority (natural rubber can cause a potentially fatal allergy).
I will try to address this in the coming weeks.
--John Spashett 09:29, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Where can i found Kautschuk?
What about the use of Natural rubber to augment synthetic rubber properties?
Around 30,000 everyday products contain natural rubber, everything from car tires, catheter tubes, latex gloves to tops for drinks bottles. Car tires, for instance, would not be elastic enough without the incorporation of natural rubber.
This seems to be to be missing from the article: there is not just synthetic, and natural rubber, but there is also widespread use of natural rubber to alter the properties of synthetic rubber: complexes of both. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 06:48, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
To distinguish the tree-obtained version of natural rubber from the synthetic version, the term gum rubber is sometimes used.
C an you help me? I want to know something about Kautschuk.
The spelling is Caoutchouc. Caoutchouc is a vegetable gum produced by certain South American trees.
India rubber comes from the India Rubber Tree, Ficus elastica. The milky sap or latex was once an important source of natural rubber, but it was of inferior quality.G4sxe 00:26, 6 January 2006 (UTC)g4sxe
Theory behind elasticity
Does anyone know exactly why rubber streches? what are the mechanics involved? i have heard two theories, and i was wondering which of them (if either) is true:
- elasticity is caused by the bonds along the carbon backbone of a polymer bending back and form, with the bonds always reforming the prefered angle of 109°
- carbon to carbon bonds stretching laterally, with the electrostatic attraction reasserting the original dimensions
i realise that they are both very similar, and in reality the reasoning is probably somewhere inbetween. could an expert please explain, and type it into the article? cheers, mastodon 20:50, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
- Both theories are incorrect. The reason rubber stretches is mainly entropic (straightening of chains), not electrostatic (bending and stretching of bonds). See article. Klafubra 19:25, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
Why does the rubber erases the pencil?
Does anyone know exactly why rubber erases the pencil? what is the phenomenom? What are the forces involved?
Someone should juxtapose a picture of a condom with that of the eraser. The subtitle, of course, would be "Rubber (American English)". I'd do it, but somehow it seems like I should first check to see if anyone thinks it to be too crude.
- I'd like to see a mention, disamb or otherwise (at the top?) about condoms on here... Because if you were an ignorant HS student from a religiously intolerent state opposed to family planning (heh) you might've only heard the euphemism, and thus would be unable to find the information you were looking for.
- I think a picture might be going over the top, however :)
- ~ender 2006-10-15 19:42:PM MST
Latex is an emulsion?
I'm certainly no expert on this, but isn't an emulsion a liquid suspended in a liquid? If referring to suspended rubber particles (as the entry does), surely colloid, or merely dispersion, would be a more accurate term?
Latex Vs. Rubber
This article fails to explain how rubber differs from latex. On the contrary it insinuates they are one and the same. Is there a distinction? If not, shouldn't the two articles be merged?Verdatum 21:17, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
- Alright, I'm in the process of editing the latex article to focus on the dictionary definition of a rubber polymer suspended in an aqueous solution. As such, latex is a raw material used to produce rubber. -Verdatum (talk) 18:15, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Other uses/properties of rubber
Quite an interesting article so far but lots more could be added. For example: use of rubber in civil engineering (shock absorbers for bridges etc), vehicle tyres/tires (frictional properties especially when wet), deterioration with time and exposure to sunlight (?UV). Substitutes (especially electrical insulation used to be rubber but is now PVC, PTFE etc). How is it affected by temperature? ChrisAngove 17:08, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Indian Rubber Board: why should it be here?
I fail to understand the rational behind having a separate section on "Indian Rubber Board" between the collection and chemical make up sections. Is it Vandalism? I am sure Malaysia and other big producers have similar authorities, shoule we talk about all of them? if we have to talk about indian rubber board should not this be part of the history section? Omar 18:47, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
The polyisoprene link points here, yet there is almost no discussion of synthetic polyisoprene. We need a separate entry on polyisoprene.
- This is a good point, particularly since this article was moved from 'rubber' to 'natural rubber' but I'm not sure there is enough content to require a separate article for polyisoprene. I'll add the content regarding polyisoprene here. -Verdatum (talk) 17:29, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
- According to some sources, polyisoprene is natural rubber, but according to others, it's not latex. And then there's synthetic polyisoprene. I'm confused. Can someone clarify, either in this article, or in a separate? --HelgeStenstrom (talk) 08:50, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
"Regular rubber gets its strength from the fact that long chains of polymer molecules are coupled, or "crosslinked," in three different ways: through covalent, ionic, and hydrogen bonding between molecules.
Of these three bond types, only the hydrogen bonds can be remade once a material is fractured, although normally there are not enough hydrogen bonds for the rubber to re-couple in this way."
Seems like a good explanation of the physical properties.
"This change in entropy can also be explained by the fact that a tight section of chain can fold in fewer ways (W) than a loose section of chain, at a given temperature (nb. entropy is defined as S=k*ln(W))"
This is the correct explanation not the stuff about conversion of the kinetic energy of the chains into heat energy which doesn't make sense as they're the same thing.
"entropy model of rubber"
The sentence: "The entropy model of rubber was developed in 1934 by Werner Kuhn" in the opening paragraph of the article feels tacked on to make someone sound important but is not relevant enough to need to be before the TOC. It should be moved down toward the entropy discussion later in the article. Recurve7 (talk) 20:13, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
The term 'rubber woman' is related to this topic - maybe it deserves some coverage? (there's some disambiguation as well - e.g.: 'contortionist' and 'prosthetic woman') Actually is there any record of a model of a woman actually made from rubber (sort-of like a rubber water bag in shape of a woman - actually to be filled with water)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 16:27, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
- I've never heard the term "rubber woman" used. It doesn't sound worth mentioning on an article related to the raw material. -Verdatum (talk) 16:53, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
Mayans are not pre-historical. They were not cave people. In fact, it wasn't the Mayans who created the rubber ball game, it was the Olmecs, a much older civilization in Mesoamerica. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 07:21, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
- Prehistoric means "prior to a system of writing". The fact uses the date of 1200 BC. The oldest dated evidence of Mayan writing is 400 BC. So yes, 1200 BC would be prehistoric. That being said, the fact is unsourced, and certainly questionable. If you have a source for the fact about the Olmec rubber ball game, then I'm totally in favor of replacing it. So where did you learn this? -Verdatum (talk) 17:05, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
Lack of a history section
I just deleted the text:
- The para rubber tree initially grew in South America, and the first European to return to Portugal from Brazil with samples of water-repellent rubberized cloth so shocked people that he was brought to court on the charge of witchcraft.
This seemed extremely improbable for several reasons, so I added a citation request in August 2009. After 8 months no evidence has been found to support it. Additionally, reading a different site  suggests that the first person to introduce rubber to the Iberian Peninsula was Christopher Columbus, who was certainly not charged with witchcraft.
Having done that, reading of the azom.com history section suggests that our article is very incomplete on the history of rubber. "Discovery of commercial potential" sort of serves as a history section, but we do not mention the early Spanish-Mexican fabric waterproofing industry, development of rubber solvents and macintosh fabric, vulcanization, inflatable boats, the Stevenson Plan ... hardly anything actually.
I will try to add a bit when I get time, but I don't get much free time these days so I also encourage others to seek our referenced sources on the history of rubber! -- 18.104.22.168 (talk) 23:15, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
The following text has been moved from the article on Foam rubber, where it seemed out of place. Perhaps it can be worked into this article... Records trace back to as early as 500 B.C.E. During this period Mayans and Aztecs harvested this latex for waterproofing and formation of children’s toy spheres. Charles Goodyear invention of the vulcanization process for rubber in 1839 gave him the vision of a world filled with uses for this new durable elastic material. His ideas for chairs and mattresses made out of rubber were not seen until far after his death though. The first United States patent was issued in the early 1900s for synthetic rubber. AresLiam (talk) 03:12, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
- Correction: How do I stop bots from changing the wrong Interlanguage links? --RayYung (talk) 03:57, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
Etymology of "caoutchouc"
The article states "is usual to tap a pannel at least twice, sometimes three times, during the tree's life" but the article gives no clue what a pannel is or what this means. I am unable to find any explanation of this on the web either, and the article doesn't seem to offer much context. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 08:03, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
This section only discusses cultivation of Hevea brasiliensis, however rubber plantations composed of nothing but Parthenium argentatum or Taraxacum kok-saghyz also exist. These are btw noted as being much more environmentally friendly as they can be grown in locations where little else grows (ie steppes) rather than in rainforests.
The link for leaf blight led to the wrong pathogen--Phomopsis obscurans of strawberry. The South American leaf blight of rubber is Microcyclus ulei. (leaf blight is a general term for a type of symptom--many pathogens have such unhelpful common names). There is no Microcyclus ulei page yet, and I'm not up to creating one, so I removed the link. Lreuber (talk) 22:50, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
While trying to verify the claims that guayule is 'hypoallergenic', what I actually found was evidence that it can cause extreme allergic reactions--merely different ones from those found in natural rubber latex. Therefore, someone who is allergic to natural latex will not be allergic (at least at first) to guayule rubber, but that's quite different from being hypoallergenic. I have modified the claims in the article accordingly. JDowning (talk) 06:03, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
This article needs reviewing for inconsistencies, e.g.
section: Contemporary manufacturing "Around 70 percent of the world's natural rubber is used in tires."