User talk:Heironymous Rowe

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Your idea sounds good; I figured it probably wasn't shell-tempered, or I would have linked the Mississippian pottery article. I know nothing about the production of pottery, or I'd be willing to help write an article about it.

Meanwhile, you should be getting your Fulton County KY photos after all. I have more time this week than any other, so I'm hoping to leave early Thursday and get back late Saturday; the extra day means that I'll have time to go farther south, so I'm looking to get some photos around Blytheville, Arkansas and travel northward along the eastern side of the Mississippi. Of course those three days are the only non-warm days according to this (but I have things scheduled at the start of each week, and I can't wait for the end of next week), but at least I won't have as many problems with inconvenient shadows. No time to go all the way down to Nodena, but Eaker is on my list (the air force base is now a municipal park), and I'm hoping to get Turk, Marshall, Twin Mounds, and Adams that day, and it's my goal to pick up Rowlandton when I go through Paducah on Saturday. Nyttend (talk) 22:25, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Forgot to say — I don't think I'll have time for Tolu, but could you please improve the coords? Right now, the coords at Tolu Site are identical to those of Tolu, Kentucky. Nyttend (talk) 22:33, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
I downloaded Brady-Rawlins' dissertation some time ago (it's so rich, I didn't want to risk losing it to linkrot), and after checking the pages in question, I can confirm that she talks about Turpin-phase sites yielding shell-tempered pottery. I've changed the link as a result. Meanwhile, I remember you mentioning the trip to dedicate some floodwall murals. Where are those located? I know nothing about Paducah, and my photo spots are the only things I've marked on the map. Nyttend (talk) 22:39, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
Just back tonight from my trip. After leaving Paducah, I realised that I'd forgotten to get Rowlandton; I'm sorry. Fortunately, many of the trees still don't have many leaves, so you should be able to get a much better photo than the one from three years ago. I attempted to get to Twin Mounds, but the road I tried was temporarily out due to localised flooding; sunset was approaching, and Cairo's reputation made me unwilling to go through the city at night. Looks like taking the road west from Barlow (marked as Holloway Landing Road on this map) will be simple and shouldn't cause problems. Adams doesn't appear to be possible without a canoe or without landowner permission; it's far from any roads, and the only way you can get there is walking through the woods or paddling on the stream that marks its northern side. On the other hand, I got Marshall and Turk photos, as well as Campbell and Murphy in MO, Eaker in AR, the large Sassafras Ridge Site in southwestern Fulton County, Kentucky, and numerous unillustrated sites in Illinois such as the Dogtooth Bend site and the Orr-Herl village site that appear on File:Mississippian sites on Lower Ohio Map HRoe 2010.jpg. Kincaid surprised me, since all I'd seen was your photo, and from it I was expecting a group of small mounds a couple of feet high — nothing like what I saw. And yes, I got time to see the murals; thanks for telling me about them, because I might have ignored them otherwise. Nyttend (talk) 04:40, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Mound 72[edit]

Casliber (talk · contribs) 06:32, 9 April 2013 (UTC)


Hey, just with regards to the saucier article. Saucier is a position in a kitchen. It's the person with overall responsibility for sauce preparation. A saucière is a vessel used to hold and pour sauce at the table. Similar spelling, but completely different things. As saucière has its own article, I can't see any reason for including information on it in the saucier article, aside from the mention in the disambig at the top. (talk) 22:13, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Good catch - American Freedom Party[edit]

I figured most of those sites were "reliable sources for the purposes of reporting what <insert fringe group here> claims" but thanks for catching the "this site is complete junk" that I missed. polarscribe (talk) 04:59, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm not too sure about Occidental Observer being considered a RS either, another racist hate rag that I'm sure has come up RSN before, just cant place where. Heiro 05:04, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi - don't want to see you get blocked over 3RR. I see you warned the other editor (I was about to). Hopefully no meat puppet or IP will get involved, but I'm watching the article. I've told the new account about the RSN discussion. Dougweller (talk) 06:53, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

I stopped at two, they reached 4 against another editor, so I warned. The material, as it stands, is still in the article, but as you saw at RSN I dont believe it is reliably sourced. If it is decided it does not meet RSN, I'll let you or someone else remove it. Heiro 06:56, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
I'll take a look, but you seem to have stopped at 3, not 2. Dougweller (talk) 07:21, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Hopewellian sites on the Wabash[edit]

Hope all goes well with the mural rededication. Question for when you get back — I've just written an article on the Hubele Site in southeastern Illinois; where on the template should I put it? Some say that it's Havana Hopewell and others that it's Crab Orchard, and I'm not sure where it belongs. Nyttend (talk) 02:43, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

It seems like it was occupied long enough that it is possible it was both, not really sure. Maybe go with the most authoritative or the lastest most scientific? Although, per my uneducated speculation, it seems to sit pretty far to the east to be Havana, if it were me I'd probably go with Crab Orchard. I'll leave it up to you, as you've read the source material. Heiro 16:31, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
If the text says that it was inhabited long enough to be both, that's a problem with the text — some say that it's CO, some HH, but nobody says both. I put it on the template with Crab Orchard, partly because Mann was in that section, since the thesis putting it with Havana says that it might also be related to Mann. If you have any time tomorrow or Monday for mound photos, you'll have at least some sun, but as you've probably heard, the rivers are rising; Twin Mounds may be hard to reach for precisely that reason. Finally, if you go out to Rowlandtown, could you try to get a photo for me? There's a former National Register site at 37°5′28″N 88°37′59″W / 37.09111°N 88.63306°W / 37.09111; -88.63306 (southwest corner of 13th and HC Mathis); because the NR's database had an odd address, my photo from last Saturday only shows a little bit of the site. It's one block south of Cairo Road and only about a quarter mile southeast of Rowlandtown. Nyttend (talk) 05:14, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
Sounds fine to me. I'm no longer in KY, back in LA(I had t change my schedule a bit). I will be returning in June though and will be there a good bit of the summer, I can get the other pics then. Heiro 15:21, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
Somewhat related to this: do you have information on Yankeetown, 12W1, a little east of Evansville IN? It's a pretty significant site, although the affiliation of the Yankeetown Phase appears to be disputed; some sources assume that it's Hopewell of various sorts (e.g. associates it with Crab Orchard), while others say that it's related to Angel, which is less than ten miles downstream. I'm asking because I have piles of information on it (so much that I'll have to leave out a lot of it because I don't have time for it all), much of which is in books that need to go back to the library. Nyttend (talk) 18:12, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
I've seen the name before (usually as the phase designation you mention), but know nothing about the site itself. I've been busy IRL so haven't been here much, except for some occasional vandal rvting. And it's prolly not going to let up for at least the next month or 6 wks. Would be interested in seeing the article if you want to start it. But I wouldn't be much help, don't remember running across any info on it. Heiro 22:04, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
Keep checking back; I'm done with the contents and just need to get the details (infobox, categories, etc) taken care of. Turns out I remembered wrongly, because rather than being of disputed affiliation, it's multi-component: Crab Orchard through Mississippian. Nyttend (talk) 22:49, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
Would you mind looking into the below section? I've gotta go and this guy seems persistent, trying to avoid an EW over this, but he's adding new agey nonsense sourced to a book I serious doubt would be considered WP:RELIABLE by anyone. Heiro 22:56, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
Article complete except for adding appropriate navboxes. I've left the guy a message regarding grandmothers as WP:RS and will pay attention to the situation. Nyttend (talk) 00:50, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
Replied at my talk to your message; thanks. Since you're online, would you mind visiting the CFD for Category:Type sites? Your input would be quite valuable. Nyttend (talk) 04:50, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Added my opinion, for what it's worth. Relatively neutral on the matter. It might be nice to have a group or list of all type sites in one place, but for what it could ever be useful for I have no clue, lol. Cheers, signing off and going back to actual work now, lol. Hope your well, Heiro 05:16, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Please... TB article this is my religion ..[edit]

You can read the book if you like; these are the essential details that come from a tribal council. Please let the edits go through and undo the wikipedia-cop. I've tried to edit this multiple times with very limited technological means... PLEASE let it go through! — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:13, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Take your source and what you are trying to insert to the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard. It doesn't sound like a WP:RELIABLE source for this information to me. If you disagree take it to the noticeboard and ask for other opinions. Heiro 22:17, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi fellow, can you read me here? Page reference 126... this book is really very important tribal wisdom to new-age thinkers. The information is well-referenced, I believe. And from the book. Please, let this stay up for the folks, I don't believe in religious censorship. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:26, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Hey fella, feel me, read our policies on WP:FRINGE, WP:UNDUE and WP:RELIABLE. :-) Heiro 22:30, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Well, nicely played... I am on a collective computer so please don't escalate. Finally, I will try again another time I have to go, but do not be a wikipedia cop, please this information really needs to be up there and the Grandmothers are the, hope our culture's got. The article's incomplete without the information from the book... Don't be a cop. EM Che.

No. This will not be inserted again, if you edit war over it, I will take it to the 3RR board to have admins decide whether or not to block your IP for it. It does not pass the relevant policies I pointed out to you. Heiro 22:41, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Great Herds of Birds[edit]

.... as my wife would say. Yeah, the grandmother's council not going on my shelf of important ethnographic reference works. Mangoe (talk) 15:05, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Bwahahaha, good one. Heiro 15:19, 2 May 2013 (UTC)


Hi there,

Just curious about the red link you added to the Mayersville Archeological Site.

Thanks, Richard Apple (talk) 19:47, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Planning on doing an article on it soon. Have already started collecting information for it. Including the link I added, several other pages already link to it. See the "Pages I've added to the Wiki world, most of them anyway" section at my user page for other similar articles I've created. Heiro 22:53, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Great! I'll be sure to have a look when it's done. Cheers!

Dear Mr. Rowe[edit]

I just received your message regarding citing personal interviews. The policy you cite makes perfect sense. Considering wikipedia's 5th pillar regarding "Wikipedia does not have firm rules," and considering that I don't want to teach my young charges to lie, can you help me find a way to bridge the gap between what the students did and what wikipedia allows? Is there some way to cite an oral history? Someway to acknowledge a local expert?

I understand this is not the only thing for you to concern yourself with, I just want to be forthright with the students when I speak to them. I also want to reinforce citing sources. Please, any help would be appreciated.

Mcadorette (talk) 17:50, 19 May 2013 (UTC)mcadorette

I have added info. Why do you delete it?

Sorry? Did I delete something? Mcadorette (talk) 18:56, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

No, another user added into the wrong section, I removed it. Heiro 18:57, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

request fluorite carving photo upload[edit]

Any chance you can visit one of the museum collections and take a photo of a fluorite carving?TCO (talk) 18:46, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Considering the nearest one to me is approximately 650 odd miles away, not anytime in the near future. Heiro 18:56, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Hello, there[edit]

Thanks for your welcome and I apoligise for my 'overeagerness' but as I joined Wikipedia today, I am not familiar with 100% of the rules, but I am trying my best. I am a little unhappy at User:Dodger67 but I believe this user violated WP:DBN, but I am a forgiving person and I want to put this behind me. Thank you. --Ordeerligg (talk) 19:42, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

You should probably address this at ANI as someone notified you at your talkpage. The fact you are so new and yet know the abbv for "Dont bite the newcomers" is fairly odd, suspicious and extremely unusual. Heiro 19:46, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Mound City, Arkansas - Is this an Indian mound?[edit]

Mound City, AR

Hello there,

We have been in touch years ago, so I am not sure if you recall me.

Anyway, I have a question for you as an expert. Do you think what is seen on the last photos in this category (Wikimedia - Mound City, AR) is an Indian mound? I have searched a bit but could not find anything on this specific location. Indians were abundant in this area not far from the Mississippi River but do you have detail information about Mound City?

I know that Mound City was named for the Indian mounds but nowadays after decades of farming, they may all be destroyed after having been farmed over.

The photos were taken in Mound City, near West Memphis, Arkansas.

doxTxob \ talk 21:36, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

I have no idea. It might be, or it could be a natural feature or created by European farmers, civil war embankments, etc. I've seen actual mounds that size and shape before, but have also seen construction debris that was also that size and shape. This area does have literally hundreds if not thousands of mounds, see [1], [2], and [3]. It is entirely possible this is one of them, but other than that I can not say. Sorry. Heiro 23:04, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

popular veiw of archaeology[edit]

The original research tag was not the tag I meant to add. It should have been the NPOV tag. The section is almost all a reiteration of this McGeough guy's veiw, and 35 of the sections refs are in the last line.

Please don't accuse of "Drive by tagging", though. It's annoying enough to make a mistake, I don't want to be called names too.--75* 17:13, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

You made a mistake, didn't address the issues you meant too, dropped the wrong tag and then didn't have the courtesy to leave a note at the talk page to explain you reasons for what turned out to be the wrong tag? How was that not driveby tagging? And how is that calling you a name? If you are going to drop a tag like that, address the issues you have on an articles talk page. Common courtesy. Heiro 17:27, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Stop being combative. The tag's gone, what more do you want? This place is a disgrace to the article; help fix it, it can easily be turned around & made into something great! What do you say? (sorry for coming back a year later, almost.) 75* 18:16, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

13 grandmothers AFD[edit]

I ask that you review the sources a bit more closely per your !vote.

by my count, I see

  • Indian Country Today - possibly rs
  • National Catholic Reporter blog - possibly rs
  • futureprimitive podcast - self published podcast, primary source interview with subject
  • futureprimitive podcast (x2) - self published podcast, primary source interview with subject
  • own site
  • primary interview with subject
  • WP - WP is certainly a reliable source, but the article is written by one of the 13 grandmothers per the attribution at the bottom
  • book - consisting of essays written by subjects (primary)
  • out of babylon podcast - self published primary interview with subject
  • out of babylon podcast (x2)- self published primary interview with subject
  • documentary, but not independent, as the "Center for Sacred Studies" that made the documentary is closely associated with the grandmothers and has many members in common

Gaijin42 (talk) 18:29, 30 May 2013 (UTC)


Hello Heironymous,

As a Native American, I thank you for your Native American contributions to Wikipedia.

I posted this on Tbhotch's page, but just now realized that I should also reach out to you as well, since obviously the Olmec is very important to you too.

I just want to add the photo I took at the Tuxteco Regional Museum Santiago Tuxtla, Veracruz to the Olmec site. It is published on the commons and free for anyone to see. How do we get the image up there following all of your rules?

Here is a version of the photo I took without the text - if the text was bothering you:

If you can add it to the Olmec page for me - following all your rules, I would appreciate it. That would certainly be better than battling with you forever - since you obviously spend quite a lot of your time on Wikipedia.

Thank you for your Native American contributions. peace, mcguiregreen — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mcguiregreen (talkcontribs) 02:01, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Mcguiregreen (talk) 02:03, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

ANI notification[edit]

Information icon Hello. There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. GiantSnowman 20:29, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Concerning the Eagle Warrior image[edit]

My band would like to use the Eagle Warrior image that you uploaded on one of our buttons. Wanted to make sure that was ok with you before we did that.

Adams County, OH sites[edit]

Hope you're having a useful/enjoyable/profitable/etc summer away from Wikipedia, but hope you'll also be back before amazingly long; I was surprised to see that you'd done nothing here in two months. Just wanted to let you know that I got pictures for the Wamsley Village Site and the Adams County Paleo-Indian District, both of which are on the River below Portsmouth; I think we've discussed them in the past, so I thought you might be interested once the images are ready online. Nyttend (talk) 22:05, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, haven't logged onto here in a long time, although I have done the occasional gnomish IP edit. I actually doubt I will be back other than that. The only reason I logged on at all now is because one of my images was deleted from Commons for some mysterious reason and I received an email from another editor about it. I've been fine, enjoying my extended wikivacation, getting tons done IRL, growing my career, etc. I had not realized exactly how much of a time sink this place had become for me, or how bad the last couple of months had become until I wasn't dealing with it every day. No random expletive filled emails from anonymous people threatening me in almost 2 years now. No constantly arguing with random IPs flogging the "TRUTH". None of the same suspects following me from article to article, harassing and baiting me. I must say it has been nice. Hope you and any other page watchers are doing well, kinda miss y'all sometimes (but not enough to come back, at least not any time soon), miss the conversations and team work with like minded people. Y'all have a good day, Cheers, Heiro 19:58, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Cherokee Nation of Mexico[edit]

Care to check this one out? Mvto! -Uyvsdi (talk) 22:46, 20 August 2013 (UTC)Uyvsdi

Discussion at WP:COIN#Michael Mic Neumann[edit]

You are invited to join the discussion at WP:COIN#Michael Mic Neumann. You were involved in a prior discussion about that user. -- Lexein (talk) 10:45, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Never mind, the matter was closed soon after this was posted. --Lexein (talk) 22:56, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Merry Christmas![edit]

Afvcke Nettvcakorakko!

-Uyvsdi (talk) 22:55, 24 December 2013 (UTC)Uyvsdi

Popular views of archaeology (2)[edit]

Good day, HeiRo! you were involed in a discussion at Talk:Archaeology about POV at popular views of Archaeology. I think I've fixed it,but I want you to take a look at the new section.--75* 16:50, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Hope you're well[edit]

I hope you don't mind, but I added your name to Missing Wikipedians. Hope you're doing well in your non-Wiki life. Cheers.--Cúchullain t/c 03:10, 30 May 2014 (UTC)


Please see my proposal to speedily rename Category:Paleoindian period to Category:Paleo-Indian period Hugo999 (talk) 05:10, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

A relief[edit]

I thought we'd lost you - didn't see your April edits, couldn't find any evidence on the web you were still around, hope you're ok. email me if you feel like it. Doug Weller (talk) 21:47, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open![edit]

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File:Hopewellsphere map HRoe 2008.jpg listed for discussion[edit]


A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Hopewellsphere map HRoe 2008.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for discussion. Please see the discussion to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. Cloudbound (talk) 22:01, 25 May 2016 (UTC)



I edited again and said "major retailers"

I don't care to promote Walmart. I am shocked that boudin is sold there (and have to admit, it is actually decent). I usually don't expect them to carry what I consider to be foodie items.

Also, I don't know how to quote a reference when the only source I have is that I bought it there yesterday. Does my receipt count? — Preceding unsigned comment added by HankHill47 (talkcontribs) 01:45, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) @HankHill47: Reliable sources are generally professionally-published mainstream academic or journalistic works (and sometimes store websites or similar materials). Receipts would be considered original research, which we do not use.
Also, having worked at Walmart, I can tell you that what each store sells is dependent entirely on location. For example, the store I worked at had a great selection of Mexican sodas that none of the other local stores carried, and the store in my aunt and uncle's town a state over didn't even have an "ethnic food" section to speak of (plus, their music section was four and a half rows of country and a half row of "rock/pop/R&B" that had Frank Sinatra and Lawrence Welk in it). Store selection is too arbitrary to include. Ian.thomson (talk) 01:53, 31 October 2016 (UTC)


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Merry Christmas and happy holidays![edit]

Spread the WikiLove; use {{subst:Season's Greetings}} to send this message


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I've sourced the nothing. Several sources all agree. Married women wore aprons. Very hot and probably humid and noone to tell them it was sinful. Doug Weller talk 16:06, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Right on. It looked like typical IP vandalism, a subtle change to somehting slightly "scandalous" with no explanation or citation. Good catch and cite. Heiro 16:20, 11 April 2017 (UTC)