User talk:Petebutt

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Articles for review



Wikiwings2.png Wikiwings
For diligent creation of many articles, including PZL Bielsko SZD-7, PZL Bielsko SZD-10, PZL Bielsko SZD-11, PZL Bielsko SZD-12, PZL Bielsko SZD-13, PZL Bielsko SZD-6x and PZL Bielsko SZD-8. - Ahunt (talk) 01:54, 31 July 2009 (UTC)


The Citation Barnstar The Citation Barnstar
For amazing citation-fixing work on Glossary of USSR/Russian aviation acronyms - Ahunt (talk) 13:55, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
Tireless Contributor Barnstar.gif The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
Awarded for your mind boggling dedication, workload and sheer application in creating and editing several lengthy and detailed tables, especially those relating to lists of RAF stations and ROC Monitoring posts. 21st CENTURY GREENSTUFF 15:38, 28 November 2010 (UTC)


Wikiwings2.png Wikiwings
Just to recognise some of your work in the background on aircraft article assesment and lists. MilborneOne (talk) 08:42, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Archived pages[edit]


Hi, you need to actually create the discussion page when you nominate a page for deletion. KTC (talk) 13:14, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Sorry! - Done!Petebutt (talk) 13:19, 17 October 2012 (UTC)


link=User talk:Talk:VA-64 (U.S. Navy)
Hello, Petebutt. You have new messages at [[User talk:Talk:VA-64 (U.S. Navy)|User talk:Talk:VA-64 (U.S. Navy)]].
Message added 14:16, 9 November 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Toddst1 (talk) 14:16, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Southwest Airlines Flight 1905[edit]

I'll nominate this for deletion tomorrow morning (At the moment I'm getting ready for bed) if you don't in the interim....William 02:53, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

The flight has been AFD. If you want to voice your opinion, go here[1]....William 18:38, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Done--Petebutt (talk) 20:18, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

CVV-3 Arcore[edit]

Evening Pete: I wonder if your contact at j2mclPlaneurs would be able to say where they got evidence that four of these were built. It might be in the Pajno book; Pedrielli is unusually silent on Arcore numbers. I've searched two pre-war Italian civil registers (Golden Years and the Air Britain one) and can only find one Arcore, the prototype I-DICI. Could have gone to the AirForce, perhaps, but it would be good to be sure. Cheers,TSRL (talk) 22:02, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Meant to add: the only images of the Arcore I can find also all show I-DICI.TSRL (talk) 23:28, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
They seem to only have the same references as you. In any case I think you could do with a look at this website, it is rather good.

[2]--Petebutt (talk) 00:34, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. That is the j2mcl ref I was quoting; I don't have Panjo's book so can't check if that is where tthe 4 comes from. Its not in Pedrielli, so that implies Panjo.TSRL (talk) 09:42, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Perplexing Statement[edit]

I do not understand this statement by you:

"*Britten-Norman needed to install a device to measure aircraft altitude on its aircraft. --Petebutt (talk) 22:05, 2 November 2012 (UTC)" [[3]]

Are you seriously claiming that their aircraft do not have altimeters installed on the pilot's instrument panel? Or, were you just being facetious, for some reason? (talk) 21:18, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Me Facetious, never. If you follow the edits it is a sentence i removed because it didn't make sense. i was merely asking what the original author meant by it!--Petebutt (talk) 21:22, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Rolls-Royce Merlin[edit]

What on earth were all the modifications to the article on the Rolls-Royce Merlin about? Editors spent ages getting it up to Featured Article status and you just went in holus-bolus with no discussion whatsoever. If you want to make such drastic modifications use the sandbox and find out what others think first! Min✪rhist✪rianMTalk 19:36, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

It had already been discussed, albeit with no input from me. The concensus was that the variant section was too detailed considering the wealth of info at the list of variants. Ok it may now be too sparse but it is an opportunity to be a bit more restrained.--Petebutt (talk) 22:32, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
Oh? Please point me to this discussion where such a concensus was achieved. The last time anyone said anything about there being too much detail possibly creeping in was Nimbus, 29 December 2010 - there was no input from anyone else, and it has not been raised as an issue since then, until suddenly, two years later Petebutt says "yeah I agree with that" and brings out the chainsaw, without discussion and without concensus. Want to know what Nimbus, who raised the original point, thinks of your "improvements", 'cos he was the one who reverted them? This is a Featured Article and it has been a Featured Article for over 30 months for the very good reason that it meets all the FA requirements. It does not need a major demolition job from one editor. Min✪rhist✪rianMTalk 23:10, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
What is the fuss about, you say yourself that Nimbus reverted them. The point is that even Featured articles can be improved. In this case I went too far with the secateurs, but that is life.--Petebutt (talk) 04:14, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Glen Davis Shale Oil Works and Oil shale in Australia[edit]

Hi, Petebutt. Could you please help with copy-editing of Glen Davis Shale Oil Works and Oil shale in Australia articles? Copy-editing was requested during DYK nomination procedure here. Thank you in advance. Beagel (talk) 10:35, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Thank you very much! Beagel (talk) 14:40, 16 December 2012 (UTC)


Hi! I looked at Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Northwest_Airlines_Flight_85

I decided to watch the Mayday episode. What it said:

  • There was a rudder failure that happened on the NW flight. Another happened on an Air France flight. Because the AF failure happened the NTSB felt it needed to take action. So the NTSB recommended attaching tail plugs in the event another failure would occur - it prevents rudder from moving too far in either direction - FAA issues Airworthiness Directive which required all B747-400s to receive the tail plugs. Also the program also says that the Airline Pilots Association, in 2003, awarded the crew the Superior Airmanship Award.

So, how do I search the airworthiness directive archives? If I find it, then that means NW85 can be revisited and can be recreated, right? WhisperToMe (talk) 01:12, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

I wouldn't bother wasting your time, there is just not enough there to warrant an article, even with Airworthiness Directives. There are far bigger fish to fry, move on and create another article on a more notable subject!--Petebutt (talk) 07:29, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
I found the directives. That's because the one made as a result of NW85 was superseded by another one a few years later. In any event, while I think this one will be re-created, are there any bigger fish you have in mind? We can get two or three for the price of one :) WhisperToMe (talk) 07:51, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
Look on Aviation Safety Network and pick one that will pass WP:Aircrash that hasn't been done already, Seemples Yes.--Petebutt (talk) 08:34, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Season's tidings![edit]

Christmas lights - 1.jpg

To you and yours, Have a Merry ______ (fill in the blank) and Happy New Year! FWiW Bzuk (talk) 01:23, 22 December 2012 (UTC)


Dear Petebutt, thank you for keeping the guards up. Merry Christmas anyway! Inwind (talk) 08:26, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Milbourne brought up the fact that Aviation Safety network don't actually hold copyright over the accident report, so if they actually quote it verbatim then it is public domain, the same as the original report, in the US at any rate, maybe not in the UK as government documents are copyrighted to the government.

Talk:Chitty Chitty Bang Bang#Requested move[edit]

In accordance with the discussion at Talk:Chitty Chitty Bang Bang#Requested move, the article on the film has been moved to the title, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. Cheers! bd2412 T 19:27, 29 December 2012 (UTC)


Hey, thank you for fixing the article on Vrabac. I'll see to use the template when I translate more. Maybe you'd like to take a look at R-25 Vulkan as well. Nikola (talk) 07:57, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Slightly different with missiles and weapons:- go to Military History Project at Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history, then Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Military history, then Template:Infobox weapon. You can then use the main article parts of the Aircraft template excluding infobox, and specifications (included in the weapon infobox).--Petebutt (talk) 13:31, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
What you did looks very nice, thank you :) Nikola (talk) 16:51, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Sopwith Circuit of Britain[edit]

I'm not sure I see the point of making a comment about a possible copyvio on the talk page and then performing a copyedit that makes the wording closer to the article in Flight.TheLongTone (talk) 10:22, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

I didn't check the Flight article till afterwards, but you do see my point I suppose!--Petebutt (talk) 13:21, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
I do, & have done a couple of copyedits. I actually started this article a while back & so cannot remember exactly what I've done: I do copy & paste fragments but rearrange & paraphrase in the subsequent editing. In fact most of the description was actually written, I think the only unedited bit was the description of the floats.TheLongTone (talk) 13:37, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
I sometimes use the same method but try to mix everything around thoroughly to avoid copyvio. In fact 1913 Flights are probably out of copyright by now (not sure), being more than 50 years old (US).--Petebutt (talk) 15:30, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
There are only so many ways to put together a technical description!..Happy New Year.TheLongTone (talk) 15:35, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
Only so many ways of skinning a cat. Happy New Year--Petebutt (talk) 16:33, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Tireless Contributor Barnstar Hires.gif The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
For your hard work on aviation related articles. ...William 14:14, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

When nominating for AFD[edit]

You should put deletion tags in for Aviation, Transportation, and location(Hawaii, France, Botswana, etc. whereever the incident or accident took place). If the crash involved a military aircraft, then the military deletion sorting tag should be done also. I add these whenever I start an AFD. Like this one[Articles for deletion/Cargolux Flight 7933 (2nd nomination)] for instance. This will make it so much easier for editors to learn about the AFD you started....William 13:32, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Itry to follow the instructions in the how to section, sometimes I get it a bit wrong, but i don't recall anything like what you are suggesting. I shallinvestigate.--Petebutt (talk) 14:42, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
The AFD I was specifically referring to was for 1955 Hawaii R6D-1 crash....William 15:26, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Yokosuka I-go Ko-gata[edit]

Why did you redirect Yokosuka I-go Ko-gata to Yokosuka K1Y - these are completely different aircraft, as can be seen by looking at Mikesh and Abe. Leaving the redlink lets people know that the article is yet to be written. Can you remove the redirect leaving the redlink until someone can write the article on the I-go Ko-gata?Nigel Ish (talk) 09:26, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

That was a slip of the mouse, but forgot to rectify. Unfortunastely it is a bit more difficult to sort hthan you suggest but I shall carry it out.--Petebutt (talk) 10:59, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
Done--Petebutt (talk) 11:01, 4 January 2013 (UTC)


Why are you removing aero stub templates from articles which need one still? Rcsprinter (rap) @ 19:46, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Which articles? Anyway it is not set in stone, put them back if you wish. I just re-assessed them, if they pass even one B-class criterion, (usually structure, but with some exceptions), then they should be start class.--Petebutt (talk) 23:55, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Mustang ACR[edit]

Hello, Pete. Are you in a position to address or respond to the comments added here: Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/North American P-51 Mustang? A number of editors have taken the time to review the article. If you are able to address these comments, the A-class review can still be successful. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 11:21, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

I was intending only to get feed back, plus I didn't realise how much had to be done. I have alerted some of the major contributors and done a small amount already.--Petebutt (talk) 15:20, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

NA P-51 Mustang[edit]

Thanks for the heads up on this - I think that there is still some work needed to bring this up to A standards, but the article is definitely heading in the right direction. Cheers Min✪rhist✪rianMTalk

Page moves and redirects[edit]

Pete, can you point me to the discussion for the Franklin 4AC page move please? I'm sure that I've asked respectfully before for potential aero engine page moves to be either discussed on the article talk page or possibly better at WT:AETF. The navbox template now does not work properly as the links are broken and the Commons link from the article is also broken. Thirteen redirects have been created today, all pointing to the wrong article. Two more comments if I may, you are not using any edit summaries at all (see WP:EDITSUMMARY) and you are introducing templated citations into articles that are established with the non-templated form (against WP:CITEVAR). Was also puzzled why you moved Vauxhall helicopter crash without reason? Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by) 13:35, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Franklin 4AC does not cover all the engines listed in the article, So it made sense, no need for a concensus on common sense!! The alternative is to remove those engines that are not 4AC and revert the title!

The Vauxhall crash title will be OK while in the news (none or very little already) so if the article persists after the news hype it will need to be titled as per the Accident project, again concensus for the move arrived at in the project page! Edit summariesihave to admit to it usually i press save before thinking about it, occasionally I write one first. I will try to write more. Lately most of my edits have been to talk page banners which I feel don't really need edit summaries and the habit has persisted. I shall bring the template up to date as there are lots missing!--Petebutt (talk) 13:56, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

You moved the helicopter article three minutes before you suggested it might be moved on the talk page, I can't find any discussion on the project pages and there was no edit summary linking to any discussion. We can write articles for all the engine types (not variants), to compress them into a single article with a name not used by sources is not particularly useful IMO. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by) 14:09, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
I stand by what I have done-good or bad. AS i state above i was simply following project guidelines to name the article as it should have been when first written!! I think you reading too much into it If you go through the history a previous editor .not me, had lumped the engines together!!--Petebutt (talk) 14:16, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
I've corrected the 13 redirects that I highlighted earlier and corrected the Commons links. More worrying is the source that has been recently introduced for these articles, it is very clearly a self-published source and can not be used. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by) 01:23, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
The source was not my doing, I followed the links already in the article. Bear in mind that the author did reference each entry on his website with type certificates and the like, so the info was not from unreferenced sources. Which 13 re-directs?.
This is the first redirect, the next 12 follow the time stamp (all within two minutes). The link was changed to Franklin 4 which is itself a redirect to Franklin-4 Vermont Representative District, 2002–2012. Don't wish to lecture but if any one of these links had been clicked to check the target article the problem would have been seen. The SPS source was added to the Franklin 4 yesterday [4] and on creation of the Franklin 6 text [5], also yesterday, neither was there before.
Mr Erickson's site is on a par with Joe Baugher which looks equally good. This source was identified as SPS and firmly rejected during the featured article candidate review for the F-4 Phantom article in 2008 (Baugher's name appears there 18 times). Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by) 10:58, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Aerokopter AK1-3 Sanka[edit]

Pete you have been asked many times to stop moving pages without discussing the moves in advance and I am asking you once again, please discuss before moving articles like this one. Your move to a new title contradicted the cited ref and the manufacturer's designation plus you added a bunch of unsourced text on variants to the article. You know that these need refs to be added. Please stop just moving articles without consensus. - Ahunt (talk) 16:16, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Is that better? Still can't find a reference to prove that the San'ka name carried through to the AK1!!
Thanks for adding the refs, although it is clear that our refs disagree as to whether the Sanka name is applied to the AK1-3 or not. The AK1-3 seem to be the production version, but if the other variants are that different perhaps they should have their own articles? - Ahunt (talk) 18:09, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
Not enough difference for own articles, almost indistinguishable apart from obvious features as noted.--Petebutt (talk) 19:04, 24 January 2013 (UTC)


A photograph or image is not required to pass assessment criteria B5; an infobox is considered sufficent. - The Bushranger One ping only 21:20, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

It's subjective, if I think the criterion is met without an image,I would pass it, usually not though.--Petebutt (talk) 22:31, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
Fair enough. - The Bushranger One ping only 02:28, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

R-R Nene[edit]

Hello Petebutt. I do not log into Wiki every day, so have only now seen your message. Have double checked and find that the image in question was of the Sapphire Lancastian VM733. I see that you have deleted this. Have now replaced it with an early picture of VH742 - the true Nene Lancastrian! Regards RuthAS (talk) 16:36, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Lovely, thanks!!--Petebutt (talk) 21:07, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Rewriting the textbook[edit]

< Displacement is the TOTAL capacity which id Swept volume + un-swept volume . >

'Citation needed' for this remarkable statement which nobody in the whole of piston engineering would agree with. (talk) 00:05, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Got it wrong again Dad. What I was trying to say was the opposite of course:

Capacity is swept + un-swept, whereas displacement as it s name implies would be swept volume only. However i will have to find a reference as many people seem confused on the subject as was I when i wrote it. thanks for the heads up. Can you sort it out as you haven't left a link to the offending article.--Petebutt (talk) 07:26, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Real Thaw[edit]

Hi Petebutt, what are your plans for Real Thaw? I noticed that you moved the original article to Real Thaw (military excercise) but the other title didn't have any existing links to it and I couldn't find anything online about another subject than the military exercise. The new title also appears to have been misspelled, I would appreciate that you took action on this, for example by either creating a stub or a disambiguation, so that I know what to do on other articles that have references/links to the military exercise article. Best regards, Get_It (talk) 17:23, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

no plans just thought it could do with more explanationin the title.--Petebutt (talk) 17:31, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
Personally I wouldn't agree with the title change because there's no other subject on it that we know, unlike Red Flag, but I do get your point. I don't really like the use of parentheses in this case and I prefer something more like how Red Flag exercise is right now. Is there any naming convention for military exercises? I was looking at the Category:Military exercises and wargames but there doesn't seem to be a pattern. Would Real Thaw exercise be correct? -- Get_It (talk) 18:22, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
Excercise Real Thaw would be even better.--Petebutt (talk) 18:51, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Flying cars template change[edit]

I can't make sense of this edit. can you explain? An edit summary would be helpful in the future. — Brianhe (talk) 18:13, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

p.s. sorry if this comes across as curt; I'm working on a tablet without keyboard right now. Cheers! —Brianhe (talk) 18:20, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
Thought I was putting it in Alphabetical order, forgot piped links, have removed piped links, so you can adjust it how you would prefer.--Petebutt (talk) 00:21, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Asking for your input on a matter[edit]

Over at the Wikiproject Aviation/Aviation accident task force page [6]. You were chosen by myself because of your past work or input on aviation crash articles. Thank you for the help....William 11:10, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

SZD-19 Zefir[edit]

There is a "Referencing and citation: criterion not met" evaluation on this article. Could you give me a few hints what facts should be better referenced in it? I would like to fix it if I can... Szafranpl (talk) 19:19, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

OK- At first glance the article seems well referenced but the references should follow guidelines, in this case follow the form advocated in the templates in the toolbar.

Step by step:

  1. After the last punctuatuion in the first instance of the sentence / para / section to be referenced place the curor and open the template ( go to cite toolbar, drop down Templates, pick the type of reference you have)
  2. Fill it in and give it a ref name ( can be anything but conventionally it is the Authors surname)

The World's Sailplanes:Die Segelflugzeuge der Welt:Les Planeurs du Monde Volume II<ref name=Shenstone>{{cite book|last=Shenstone|first=B.S.|title=The World's Sailplanes:Die Segelflugzeuge der Welt:Les Planeurs du Monde Volume II|year=1963|publisher=Organisation Scientifique et Technique Internationale du Vol a Voile (OSTIV) and Schweizer Aero-Revue|location=Zurich|pages=34-36|edition=1st|coauthors=K.G. Wilkinson|language=Primarily English with French and German}}</ref>

  1. press insert
  2. on subsequent items to be given the same reference enter <ref name=xxxx/>
  1. In the info section at the bottom of the page it should look like this:-

See also[edit]

Aircraft of comparable role, configuration and era



  • Shenstone, B.S.; K.G. Wilkinson (1963). The World's Sailplanes:Die Segelflugzeuge der Welt:Les Planeurs du Monde Volume II (in Primarily English with French and German) (1st ed.). Zurich: Organisation Scientifique et Technique Internationale du Vol a Voile (OSTIV) and Schweizer Aero-Revue. pp. 160–162. 
  • Pietchowski, Piotr. "SZD-19-2 Zefir 2" (in Polish). Retrieved 8 April 2013. 
  • Taylor, J. H. (ed) (1989) Jane's Encyclopedia of Aviation. Studio Editions: London. p. 29
  • "Modelarz" No 4 / 60 (April 1960)

External links[edit]

Note: the Notes/reflist section is filled out automatically and does NOT require input from you Remove the no include <!-- & --> as required but do not erase as other editors after you might wish to fill them out!

Seemples Yes?--Petebutt (talk) 19:40, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

I have gone throught the ref already and elevated it to B-class but the prose could be better as the editor that inserted the refs semmed to use them as punctuation making the prose very stilted and jerky. Refs do not need to to be inserted after full stops, they can go anywhere!!--Petebutt (talk) 02:05, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Notification of nomination for deletion of 2013 Vauxhall helicopter crash[edit]

This is to inform you that this article has been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2013 Vauxhall helicopter crash. - Ahunt (talk) 15:04, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Date format[edit]

Hi. I noticed you added a {{Use mdy dates}} tag to Sir Baboon McGoon (B-17). Per WP:STRONGNAT, isn't standard American military usage dmy? Nick Number (talk) 14:43, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Not by a concensus in WP Aviation. All aviation articles should use dmy with the exception of US military aviation articles which should use mdy.--Petebutt (talk) 20:30, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

List of aircraft (C)[edit]

Hi Petebutt. I noticed that in the past couple of weeks you have made several changes to the List of aircraft (C) article that resulted in a large number of {{citation needed}} tags, each of which had been requested since last fall and had been dated as "November 2012" in the cn-metadata, to be redated with "May 2013", as if the requests for these citations was only recent.

I assume good faith. But I wonder if you could explain what your rationale for doing this was, and/or how such a major change would benefit the improvement of the encyclopedia. Cheers. N2e (talk) 20:08, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Just re-vitalising them so the entries don't get deleted before articles are written or refs found. Be Patient, as I have iterated in the past. --Petebutt (talk) 12:25, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Your move request for Fighter Squadron 92[edit]

Regarding this request to move Fighter Squadron 92, note that the target of your proposed move, VF-92, is already occupied by a redirect to another article, VF-74. Could there be two independently written articles about the same thing? I am declining the technical move until the facts can be clarified, but you can resubmit if everything gets sorted out. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 03:48, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

June 2013[edit]

Information icon Hello, I'm WorldTraveller101. I noticed that you recently removed some content from User:WorldTraveller101/sandbox/2 without explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Wikipedia with an edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry: I restored the removed content. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks! I appreciate it, but it is my personal sandbox. This doesn't apply to just you, quite frankly, even the editors I trust the most, I still would not be comfortable letting them edit my personal sandbox. Thanks, Petebutt. BTW, I think u have a butt, Pete Face-wink.svg WorldTraveller101(Trouble?/My Work) 17:26, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Kuwait Airways Flight 422[edit]

Hi Pete. As you redirected the page I thought I'd let you know I'm planning an article on this in the next few days. There's plenty of online material so I hope to do something by the latter part of next week. Paul MacDermott (talk) 11:43, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Carry on. I left the content of the talk page in place, so you bcan just remove the re-direct.--Petebutt (talk) 20:31, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
ok it's done. I couldn't find as much about events once the plane reached Algiers, but hopefully it can be expanded over time. Cheers Paul MacDermott (talk) 14:52, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

B class reviews[edit]

Pete (I assume), there's no way those early destroyer articles you've been tagging are B class. I've been working on a few of them over the last couple of days, and there's months of work there to get them even correctly spelt and formatted. I've got deeper concerns about copyvio. Can I ask you to be a bit harsher in future? Shem (talk) 21:50, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

No problem; there is no reason why you can't re-assess them, as you obviously have more knowledge and resources than I.--Petebutt (talk) 00:37, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

PWS-22 & PWS-23[edit]

Hello Petebutt. I was puzzled by your comment on my talk page. Nice of you to drop by, but I don't understand what you wrote. I suspect that since you addressed me as Halibutt your comment may be intended for someone else. Have a nice day. – Hebrides (talk) 06:49, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

 :) As to your comment on my talk, thanks for the link to Template:WPAVIATION creator, I didn't know it. Seems helpful. As to your specific comments:
  1. Well, it's always better to have a more detailed article than merely a stub, right? After all if someone looks for info on this or that type of plane, he or she is looking for details, not the general info. That's what the lead is for.
  2. As to single article... I thought about it, but decided against it in the end. They were generally similar in shape, but both designs differed significantly. They were not two versions of the same plane (Me 109B vs Me 109E), differing in this or that part only. They were two completely different designs. Sure, with similar layout, but designed with different tasks in mind, and more importantly, one was significantly larger than the other one. They differed much more than the Bf 110-Me 210-Me 410 combo, each with its' own full-blown article while in reality it was still the same old upgraded Bf110 all along.
  3. Variants section - I'll keep that in mind
  4. My own prose - well, it's hard not to mimic the references when you write about technical details. Or did you have something else in mind?
  5. various competing aircraft etc - well, there we disagree quite strongly. I mean I'm not an expert on aviation, but what I lack in many aviation articles in Wikipedia is the context: what planes did this or that construction compete against, who designed it, why and so on. It's just a matter of taste I suppose. Or did I misunderstand you again?

Cheers //Halibutt 14:14, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

OK, no problem.--Petebutt (talk) 10:26, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
While we're at it. I see you created an article on Kocjan Bᾳk. It seems not only there already was an article on Kocjan Bąk, but also there is no ᾳ sign in Polish. Could you try to merge the two articles? //Halibutt 17:45, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
Done!!--Petebutt (talk) 19:42, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

List of aircraft engines[edit]

Your edits produced some reference errors. Please be so kind to fix them.
Cite error: The named reference JAWA62-62 was invoked but never defined
Cite error: The named reference Gunston_198 was invoked but never defined
Cite error: The named reference was invoked but never defined
Thanks --Frze (talk) 08:32, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

All done--Petebutt (talk) 08:38, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

July 2013[edit]

Hello Petebutt! I recently saw that you merged the article Kocjan Bᾳk into Kocjan Bąk. I am here to tell you that even though I have no problem with your merging style, I find problem with the changes you made to the two article's talk pages. I strongly believe the you should take a look at Wikipedia:Merging#How to merge. You should tag the destination page's talk page with {{merged-from}}, and the source page's talk page with {{merged-to}}. But instead you just wrote done at the top of the talk page. Because of what you did, both the the articles continued to remain in the category Articles to be merged even though they had already been merged. I hope tat you have understood what I mean. If you think I am wrong or if you have any queries/doubts, you can tell about it on my talk page. Thank You. - Jayadevp13 12:40, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

OK, sorry about that. It was a special situation, I needed the text from my article to go under the title of the other article, and have to confess I was unaware of the merge finishing touch, thanks.--Petebutt (talk) 18:48, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
No problem buddy. Just don't repeat this mistake again. Nice to meet you by the way. Regards. - Jayadevp13 07:07, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Your MiG-15 edit on 18 July 2013[edit]

Hi, I've noticed you changed the general characteristics of MiG-15 to include speeds at different altitudes. However for unknown reasons, all the sea level speeds are way off: 10,595 km/h (6,583 mph; 5,721 kn) at sea level. Please fix this. ReconTanto (talk) 13:30, 19 July 2013 (UTC) oldid=557602880 this request to move Fighter Squadron 92], note that the target of your proposed move, VF-92, is already occupied by a redirect to another article, VF-74. Could there be two independently written articles about the same thing? I am declining the technical move until the facts can be clarified, but you can resubmit if everything gets sorted out. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 03:48, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

June 2013[edit]

Information icon Hello, I'm WorldTraveller101. I noticed that you recently removed some content from User:WorldTraveller101/sandbox/2

List of aircraft accidents and incidents resulting in at least 50 fatalities[edit]

Hi Petebutt- I appreciate the time you took to go through the table of the list above. I'm a bit puzzled by some (not all) of the edits you made. Almost all of the Aeroflot incidents are now redlined where they were not, and several incidents have had brackets added even though no page exists. Many have had the aircraft type added to the title when it is already in its own dedicated column. I will continue going through it, bit I may need to undo all the changes and then add a few of them back. Thanks.--Godot13 (talk) 13:27, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

not finished yet--Petebutt (talk) 13:37, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
Okay... I'll wait to see the finished result... -Godot13 (talk) 14:03, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
More coming 1738 2007 13--Petebutt (talk) 14:39, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
  • I really do appreciate the time and effort, but all of the new links (heavy use of redirects) may be a controversial change. Mid-air collisions now have two or more incident links to the same article (versus the whole incident title linked to the article), the incident naming convention for the list is no longer uniform, and in a handful of the spot-checked cases at least one incident is linked to the wrong article. You’ve added aircraft info into the incident (intermittently) which is unnecessary as the next column over contains aircraft manufacture and model information.
    I know you said you were in the middle of making edits, but this list is in the middle of FLC review and has had extensive comments on the talk page. Discussion regarding the types of revisions you are currently making never occurred In its current state, this is going to take me a long time fix (longer than undoing the changes). On Wednesday (24 July) I will save a raw copy of what has been done, and (again respectful of the time you have put in) undo your edits, and manually re-enter a significant part of your work in a manner consistent with the overall flow and organization of the list. Thanks-Godot13 (talk) 13:42, 23 July 2013 (UTC)
Just trying to make it consistent with re- directs rather than piped links (piped links are supposed to be used sparingly, with preference to redirects).

--Petebutt (talk) 16:16, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Effort appreciated. I didn't undo anything, I worked around your additions to keep the incident column uniform. Thanks--Godot13 (talk) 23:46, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

People's Liberation Army Navy Surface Force[edit]

Did you personally make this edit? People's Liberation Army Navy Surface Force Any way, apologies for the name and shame if it wasn't you. Corella (talk) 03:18, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

yes, that was me. A lot are irrelevant arent they!--Petebutt (talk) 04:23, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

WikiProject Military history coordinator election[edit]

Greetings from WikiProject Military history! As a member of the project, you are invited to take part in our annual project coordinator election, which will determine our coordinators for the next twelve months. If you wish to cast a vote, please do so on the election page by 23:59 (UTC) on 28 September! Kirill [talk] 17:15, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

September 2013[edit]

Stop icon Your addition to Allison V-1710 has been removed, as it appears to have added copyrighted material to Wikipedia without permission from the copyright holder. If you are the copyright holder, please read Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for more information on uploading your material to Wikipedia. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text, or images borrowed from other websites, or printed material without a verifiable license; such additions will be deleted. You may use external websites or publications as a source of information, but not as a source of content, such as sentences or images—you must write using your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. Binksternet (talk) 19:15, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

I have restored my legitimate and useful edit, as it is obvious you don't know what you are talking about!!!!!!!!!!--Petebutt (talk) 02:17, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

BAT F.K.27 Bantam[edit]

I'm currently putting together an article on the Aerial Derby races, and so came across this redirect of yours. Problem is I'm not sure that it's correct - and there's no reference to the FK27 in the target article Firstly, the list of entrants to the 1919 event [7] has both the BAT Bantam and what is (see next ref) the F.K.27, described as the "Sporting two-seater". Also [8] has a set of dimensions for the F.K.27 which differ significantly from those of the Bantam. And of course it's a two seater, and one with side-by side seating at that. Just wondering where your data came from....I've absolutely zip on BAT aircraft in my library. RegardsTheLongTone (talk) 17:26, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Peter Lewis in his British Racing and Record-Breaking Aircraft (Putnam, 1970), ISBN 0-370-00067-6 refers to a BAT FK27 two-seat sports sesquiplane derviced from the Bantam which was scratched from the competition as it was not ready.Nigel Ish (talk) 18:12, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
Sesquiplane would explain why the second Flight article has two wingspans listed...maybeTheLongTone (talk) 18:19, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
I dont recall where from, possibly Janes 1919 or flight. I lie I do recall. There is a website for Koolhoven aircraft at [9]--Petebutt (talk) 01:30, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
I am a bit puzzled as to why you ask the question when the answer you seek is already in the article. See Jane's all the world's Aircraft 1919!!--Petebutt (talk) 01:49, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
I ask because there's no mention of the FK27 in the Bantam article, so the redirect is not helpful. If there was a mention, and it was referenced, I would not be asking.TheLongTone (talk) 10:11, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
It would be helpful when referring to articles, links re-directs etc. that you supply relevant links so we don't have to get the crystal balls out!--Petebutt (talk) 13:38, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
Sorry, being lazy. Glad to see there's a F.K.27 article...although the type seems to be missing from the BAT article & navbox. Unless you've changed them since I last looked. Incidentally I found a subsequent reference stating that the type was not actually flown in the Aerial Derby: a cut-down Bantam took its place.TheLongTone (talk) 16:23, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
Major internet problems, so missed a post. The re-direct was in error, should have been lain BAT F.K.27. Info I have also states enterred but not actually flown in the Derby.--Petebutt (talk) 04:07, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
Yes, found that out after I'd started the thread!TheLongTone (talk) 16:59, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Moves of specific aircraft to disambiguated article titles[edit]

I've undone a couple of your recent moves. In my opinion you introduced disambiguation with some where it was not needed (eg Aluminum Overcast) and changed the disambiguator to a more specific and less identifiable one - eg "(aircraft)" to "(B-29)". I think you need to look again at the others you've done, as they also seem to have been moved without good cause. GraemeLeggett (talk) 16:24, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

ref name=747_O_D_summ

A reference problem[edit]

Hi! Some users have been working hard on Category:Pages with broken reference names.

Here you added a new reference ref name=747_O_D_summ + ref name=ucfc747 but didn't define it. This has been showing as an error at the bottom of the article. Cite error: The named reference was invoked but never defined. Can you take a look and work out what you were trying to do? Thanks -- Frze > talk 11:19, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Not me Squire!--Petebutt (talk) 11:28, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
OOPS, was me -fixed!--Petebutt (talk) 11:28, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Article classes[edit]

One of those thankless tasks which somebody has to do, but it is appreciated! I'm unclear about the requisite number of citations. For many of the articles you've done (I'm thinking of the Bristol aircraft) pretty much all the article will either be the relevant Putnam manufacturer book or aircraft type (ie fighters or whatever): how many cites to the same source is appropriate. I'll have a go at upping the cites on the British Army Aeroplane No.1, which from memory was a complicated expansion in which most of the detail came from Harald Penrose's British Aviation: the Early Years. I no longer have access to the library I got this from, but I assume the IWM will have a copy I can consult to do this.TheLongTone (talk) 11:13, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Purely subjective.If you think there are lots of sources available, then there should be lots of references and vice versa. Obviously with a largely single source then it is sufficient to add a reference at the end of each paragraph. That's how I do it!--Petebutt (talk) 14:54, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

B-class ratings[edit]

Hi! Just thought to let you know that I've downgraded ratings for Bristol Type 146 and Bristol Gordon England biplanes because both articles fail B1 criterion, missing at least one reference (the latter also contained unreferenced designer name in the infobox and not in the prose, adding to the B1 problem, as well as indicating possibly lacking coverage of the article and thus failure of B2 criterion). Cheers.--Tomobe03 (talk) 12:10, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

As you wish, as I say above, assessment is purely subjective and can never be right or wrong, just incomplete.--Petebutt (talk) 12:36, 26 October 2013 (UTC)
O well, off to a library rhat has a copy of Barnes for me, I think.TheLongTone (talk) 12:54, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

October 2013[edit]

Information icon Hi, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you tried to give Roots-type supercharger a different title by copying its content and pasting either the same content, or an edited version of it, into another page with a different name. This is known as a "cut-and-paste move", and it is undesirable because it splits the page history, which is legally required for attribution. Instead, the software used by Wikipedia has a feature that allows pages to be moved to a new title together with their edit history.

In most cases, once your account is four days old and has ten edits, you should be able to move an article yourself using the "Move" tab at the top of the page. This both preserves the page history intact and automatically creates a redirect from the old title to the new. If you cannot perform a particular page move yourself this way (e.g. because a page already exists at the target title), please follow the instructions at requested moves to have it moved by someone else. Also, if there are any other pages that you moved by copying and pasting, even if it was a long time ago, please list them at Wikipedia:Cut-and-paste-move repair holding pen. Thank you. Andy Dingley (talk) 16:49, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

What are you on about?--Petebutt (talk) 16:52, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
Roots-type supercharger is correct. Please don't move it to Rootes. Don't do a big move like that undiscussed (Seriously, an "error" like that was unnoticed by everyone else?) Then you're edit-warring, then you're doing copy-paste page moves, then you're changing the name of the Roots brothers who underlie all this. WTF are you up to? Andy Dingley (talk) 16:57, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
Always been Rootes blowers / superchargers. ONly references I can find for roots are the wikipedia article!!--Petebutt (talk) 17:04, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
So read the refs on the WP article. I noted two on the talk: page already, just because I expected this sort of "But I'm Right!!" response. Andy Dingley (talk) 17:12, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
As always. But I defend my right to edit and move the article without a so-called concensus!! Otherwise Wikipedia would be full of articles on Camels. The question is why have so many knowledgable people written so many books with it spelt incorrectly. I shall continue to be a WikiDragon and edit boldly, where no man has editted before. seriously the reality check is appreciated.--Petebutt (talk) 17:30, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

N1 Sala[edit]

Evening Petebutt. I've just completed an article on this glider and will soon move it out of my sandbox. Any thoughts about the name? N1 Sala is what Pedrielli calls it but it looks a bit strange. Sala was the builder and I assume the N is for Negri, its designer but am a little reluctant to change it to, say, Negri N1 Sala without some supportive source. I wonder what, if anything, Pajno and Rinaldi have to say.TSRL (talk) 17:09, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

The best I can find is Sala N-1 --Petebutt (talk) 17:58, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
So that's what it will be!TSRL (talk) 18:03, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Pratt & Whitney Wasp Junior S1H1-G[edit]


A tag has been placed on Pratt & Whitney Wasp Junior S1H1-G, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a redirect from an implausible typo, or other unlikely search term.

Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself. If you believe that there is a reason to keep the redirect, you can request that administrators wait a while before deleting it. To do this, affix the template {{hangon}} to the page and state your intention on the article's talk page. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this.

(Note that I've already reverted the sole used of this redirect, which was for a nonexistent engine type.)

-- Colin Douglas Howell (talk) 16:15, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

Flight 714 Comment[edit]

User Petebutt, FYI: Three people--two admins and one editor (a primary editor of the Tintin articles)--had to work to reverse your effort to move article Flight 714 and then the redirect Carreidas 160. FYI, there is no character spelled "TinTin". Prhartcom (talk) 00:25, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

High-Pressure Compressor[edit]

Proposed deletion of High-pressure compressor[edit]

Ambox warning yellow.svg

The article High-pressure compressor has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Overlap with gas-turbine engines. Move article to gas turbines page. (

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Meeeeeeee39 (talk) 15:15, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Soko J-21 Jastreb[edit]

Hello. Considering you moved the J-21 Jastreb to J-1 some time ago I thought it would be appropriate if I let you know that I moved it back to its original title and edited the article so it says J-21. You can find my argumentation on the talk page. Cheers. --Saxum (talk) 18:24, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

JetBlue Airways Flight 292[edit]

I've removed the old AfD template from the top of JetBlue Airways Flight 292. That AfD discussion closed in the past. If you think new discussion is in order, you'll need to create a new nomination page, such as Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/JetBlue Airways Flight 292 (3rd nomination). —C.Fred (talk) 18:55, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Library Survey[edit]

As a subscriber to one of The Wikipedia Library's programs, we'd like to hear your thoughts about future donations and project activities in this brief survey. Thanks and cheers, Ocaasi t | c 15:33, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

MIL-STD-1553 talk page mod.[edit]

Hi, I've reverted your edit to the 1553 talk page, which removed the link to the aviation project. I think it's use in avionics merits it: it's still about the most used bus there is, not least because of MIL 1760 and its use on pylon stores. However, if aviation aren't interested, change it back again by all means.

OK, it was a shall I shan--Petebutt (talk) 17:52, 18 December 2013 (UTC)'t I job anyway!

Aerial Derby[edit]

What infobox would you suggest...nothing approprate sprung out & bit me & I looked at a few other air races, none have an infobox.TheLongTone (talk) 23:42, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

We'll have to write our own. I have just had a go but got bogged down half way, but not as difficult as you might think.--Petebutt (talk) 01:54, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

No infobox in "List" articles please[edit]

Hi, I've just reverted your change to List of de Havilland Canada DHC-6 Twin Otter operators; if you check other similar "List" articles you'll notice that an Infobox is not required. The details on the plane (including the Infobox) will be found in the article of the aircraft in question (in this case the de Havilland Canada DHC-6 Twin Otter). Hope this clarifies the issue, and thanks for contributing. Regards, DPdH (talk) 14:08, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

I beg to differ. Refer to Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section#Elements of the lead and Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Stand-alone lists. There is no mention of NOT including an infobox!! I hope I have clarified the issue!!--Petebutt (talk) 01:04, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Glad Tidings and all that ...[edit]

Bolas navideñas.jpg FWiW Bzuk (talk) 19:48, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

Polar 3[edit]

I'm a bit confused about your content removal on the Polar 3 article where you just removed content in mid-sentence and in the middle of a word as well as the template and the external links. A mistake I presume? Calistemon (talk) 15:49, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

I'm as confused as you are. Thanks for sorting it out though.--Petebutt (talk) 00:42, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
No worries. Just a reminder, by reverting you I probably undid what you wanted to achieve as well. You may have to go back and redo that bit. Was it adding a category? Calistemon (talk) 17:11, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Deletion nominations[edit]

Hi: today you nominated for deletion all three articles created by a new user, DDCEX (the RAF crashes ones). But you didn't notify them; in fact their talk page was still a red link. Please remember to let article creators know, particularly new editors, who may not know about their watchlist, and could probably use a welcome template to orient them on the notability policy. The creator should have a chance to argue for keeping and/or fix the article. Yngvadottir (talk) 19:42, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

I would have if I had seen that step in the how to section, may be I just missed it.--Petebutt (talk) 03:07, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
Go to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion, no mention of informing the author!!!!!!!!!!!!!--Petebutt (talk) 11:05, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
There is one in the box in the article but only advisory--Petebutt (talk) 11:12, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

The future for WP:AIRCRASH[edit]

I don't know if you saw the notices about this debate, but regardless I was hoping you would provide us with your thoughts as part of Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Aviation/Aircraft_accidents_and_incidents#The_future_for_WP:AIRCRASH. - Ahunt (talk) 13:23, 28 January 2014 (UTC)


Nuvola apps edu languages.svg
Hello, Petebutt. You have new messages at Talk:Malaysia Airlines Flight 684.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

- tucoxn\talk 22:25, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Hi. I would appreciate a response from you. No with an explanation, or a yes would be sufficient. Thanks! - tucoxn\talk 05:00, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
Hi. You did not respond adequately to my question. I asked it again using some different words. I would appreciate a clear response (yes you agree, or no you don't agree). Thanks for your help. - tucoxn\talk 08:44, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

For your contributions to Avion Pirata[edit]

Trophy.png Cool contributor award
Thanks!!!! Antonio Martin (talk) 09:29, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Zeppelin numbers[edit]

What is your reason for removing the space between the letters & numbers in List of Zeppelins? The numbers are formatted with a space in all the other Zeppelin articles, such as Zeppelin, Airship, German strategic bombing during World War I & all the articles ion individual Zeppelins. It's also used by authoritative sources such as Douglas Robinson's The Zeppelin in Combat. At the very least, this merits discussion: its been there before], when the consensus seemed to be for the space.TheLongTone (talk) 10:28, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

All done. Some had space some didn't. Standardised but went thr wrong way, sorted now?--Petebutt (talk) 19:07, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
No probs, actually weighed in with the above because I mistakenly thought you'd reverted the reversion...TheLongTone (talk) 19:12, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

More errors[edit]

Hello, I'm tabetom. I recently noticed that you had made some changes on the page Finnish Air Force without explaining why. You had changed the Finnish name of the FAF from "Ilmavoimat" into "Ilmavoimat Suomo", and you had deleted the Swedish name completely. I am a native Finn myself, and I completed my military service in the Finnish Air Force. The FAF has never been called "Ilmavoimat Suomo", it's always just "Ilmavoimat" alone. Moreover, "Suomo" is not even a word: the Finnish word for "Finland" is "Suomi". If you made that edit by mistake, don't worry; I already corrected it. Thanks, Tabetom (talk) 14:30, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

124 Entry reunion[edit]

Trophy.png Longevity

Please drop me an email? Andy Rodger ARodger124 (talk) 09:51, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Air Transport Command (USAF)[edit]

Please see the note on the talk page Bwmoll3 (talk) 18:11, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

Please see the talk page on Sauer 1800. The certified 1800 engines and the 1800 UL are NOT the same engines. They are in fact very different. Please restore the Sauer S 1800 UL page. SvingenB (talk) 22:35, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Nuclear Test Sites[edit]

Are you going to supply the page for the link you created? Or was it in error? SkoreKeep (talk) 08:49, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

??????--Petebutt (talk) 10:45, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Peformance record?[edit]

I didn't know about the New Articles page. Thx. As for the trouble creating, they've been pretty stubby, so no worries. ;p TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura 17:57, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Thx again. :) TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura 17:00, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

June 2014[edit]

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Undid your edit to Tachikawa air disaster.[edit]

I just undid your edit to the above article, in which you replaced the word "plane" everywhere, including in a direct quote. Altering direct quotes like that is just wrong—you never change the language in a quote, regardless of what factual or stylistic errors it makes. Furthermore, I don't understand your violent aversion to the word "plane" as a synonym for "airplane". I know of no guidelines in the Aviation or Aircraft WikiProjects against it, and it's not like there is any possibility of confusion in this context with the geometic entity or the woodworking tool. --Colin Douglas Howell (talk) 16:53, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Apologies for the quote! As for plane, it is a wood shaping device, tree or flat surface but not an aircraft!!!--Petebutt (talk) 19:30, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Learjet mid-air[edit]

I've tried to get two images to appear where they should and failed. Looks like we'll need to stick with the current format for now. Mjroots (talk) 20:12, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Strange that. i'm sure I have used this templat3e before with no problems.--Petebutt (talk) 06:33, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

von Loessel[edit]

Morning Pete: I note your edit on the Loessel glider, changing Ernst to Eugen. Kens has him as Ernst: do you have a reliable cite for Eugen? To add to the confusion, Simons has (p.9) a note on an unspecified von Loessel who was killed in a glider crash at the 1920 Rhön. Cheers,TSRL (talk) 07:55, 29 June 2014 (UTC) BTW, Kens does mention Eugen, as Ernst's brother, so he knows something about him.TSRL (talk) 07:57, 29 June 2014 (UTC) It turns out that Eugen was the von Loessel killed on the Wasserkuppe in August 1920, here which seems to rule him out as designer.TSRL (talk) 10:34, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

I have looked a bit deeper , but am now even more confused. The Father was Ernst Johann Ludwig Ritter und Edler von Loessl (b. Rio Grande do Sul, 12.06.1865, d. Bad Neuenahr, 06.10.1931), who had four sons,
  • Ernst von Loessl b 14.04.1894 Killed on the Western Front in 1917
  • Eugen von Loessl b 1895 Killed in 1920 on the Wasserkuppe
married Margarethe Mohn
  • Ottmar Hans Julius von Loessl b 20.08.1897 died at Köln, 08.07.1983
married Anna Luise Strack
  • Ulrich Bernhard Adolf von Loessl b 17.09.1910 died Bad Neuenahr, 07.11.1961
married Lini Diener

The question is was Ernst the father also building / designing gliders?--Petebutt (talk) 14:21, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Some progress. I've looked more carefully at the German and Kens says that "our" Ernst von Loessel was a cousin of the brothers. Both of the brothers seem to have been pilots who died in aircraft. Eugen was in a promising biplane of his own design when he crashed on the Wasserkuppe, according to Simons. Can you find out if the father had a brother? The latter should have had a son.TSRL (talk) 15:50, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Flight 2 August 1923

It should be stated that both the machines exhibited were designed by Ernst von Loessl, who is a relative (cousin), of the von Loessl who lost his life in a glider accident in the Rhon some years ago.

Despite this evidence there doesn't seem to be a cousin named Ernst from the records I have accessed. So change back to Ernst with a rider that he is the cousin of Eugen. Good bit of detective work!!--Petebutt (talk) 16:23, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

The Flight piece is a useful spot and confirms Kens. Always good to have info from nearer the time. The rider looks fine. I don't know how the von stuff goes: could it be passed down the female side, supposing father Ernst had a sister?TSRL (talk) 17:12, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

He would no longer be a von Loessl then as titles are strictly handed down in the male line.--Petebutt (talk) 01:49, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
Just heard from Claude at J2mcl with the same info and an excerpt from the book, The full name should be

Münchener Eindekker.--Petebutt (talk) 03:05, 30 June 2014 (UTC)