Talk:Main Page

To report an error in content currently or imminently on the Main Page, use the appropriate section below.

• Where is the error? An exact quotation of the text in question helps.
• Offer a correction if possible.
• References are helpful, especially when reporting an obscure factual or grammatical error.
• Time zones. The Main Page runs on Coordinated Universal Time (UTC, currently 19:57 on 18 October 2024) and is not adjusted to your local time zone.
• Can you resolve the problem yourself? If the error lies primarily in the content of an article linked from the Main Page, fix the problem there before reporting it here. Text on the Main Page generally defers to the articles with bolded links. Upcoming content on the Main Page is usually only protected from editing beginning 24 hours before its scheduled appearance. Before that period, you can be bold and fix any issues yourself.
• Do not use {{edit fully-protected}} on this page, which will not get a faster response. It is unnecessary, because this page is not protected, and causes display problems. (See the bottom of this revision for an example.)
• No chit-chat. Lengthy discussions should be moved to a suitable location elsewhere, such as the talk page of the relevant article or project.
• Respect other editors. Another user wrote the text you want changed, or reported an issue they see in something you wrote. Everyone's goal should be producing the best Main Page possible. The compressed time frame of the Main Page means sometimes action must be taken before there has been time for everyone to comment. Be civil to fellow users.
• Reports are removed when resolved. Once an error has been addressed or determined not to be an error, or the item has been rotated off the Main Page, the report will be removed from this page. Check the revision history for a record of any discussion or action taken; no archives are kept.

Administrators: Clear all reports

Errors in the summary of the featured article

Please do not remove this invisible timestamp. See WT:ERRORS and WP:SUBSCRIBE. - Dank (push to talk) 01:24, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Errors with "In the news"

sinwar's death is denied by hamas. We can't take partisan sides based on one claim. They dint even deny haniyeh's death. [1]Sportsnut24 (talk) 12:42, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

The article actually says both that Hamas denies his death(in the lead) and that they acknowledge it(in the text itself), both with citations. It is said, though, that DNA confirmed his death. 331dot (talk) 12:58, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Sportsnut24 Also note that there is no independent body/entity that will make a determination as to his death; sources are provided for readers to examine and judge themselves. You are free to read the article and disagree with or disbelieve it, as long as the sources are accurately summarized. 331dot (talk) 13:01, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Confirmed by major [2] [3] [4] news sites, including Qatar-owned Al Jazeera. -- Sca (talk) 13:02, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

The BBC is reporting that Hamas have issued a statement saying that killing any of their leaders will not stop them. But the statement has not confirmed Sinwar's death. That's not the same as denying it. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:09, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Hamas recently confirmed his death per https://www.deccanherald.com/world/hamas-official-confirms-yahya-sinwars-death-3238644 Pachu Kannan (talk) 13:08, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Errors in the summary of the featured list

Friday's FL

(October 18, today)

Monday's FL

(October 21)

Errors in the summary of the featured picture

Notice to administrators: When fixing POTD errors, please update the corresponding regular version (i.e. without "protected" in the page title) in addition to the Main Page version linked below.

General discussion

Main Page Design

It could look quite a bit more professional.--Billy (talk) 23:40, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Why should it look more professional? Only some people know that it is here. Do you mean that we sould have a coloured background? Or some other astheatic effect? Dreamy ^§ 23:44, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

more professional? what's wrong with it now? freenaulij 00:19, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't mean as in content or layout. Other wikipedia pages (for example portals) seem to' have jgyftcfvtfcjkyrylfy iryi'about some icons or something. Its merely a suggestion. There is nothing wrong with the main page.--Billy (talk) 00:33, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh... You mean the actual main page, not the discussion... Well, it should look good, it is the most viewed page... Dreamy ^§ 00:49, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Dude, I've said and read things about this so many times, you've got my support if it goes to discussion but to be honest I don't see it happening, soon someone's gonna say "if it ain't broken don't fix it" (which is my pet peeve by the way) and the conversation will go downhill from there. Ferdia O'Brien (Talk) 02:43, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Me Too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.241.194.134 (talk) 22:03, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia's Main Page should be more decorative and attractive by changing the backgroud and having all sorts of different news like new books and movies that have been released. --Pure-intellect (talk) 17:24, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Honestly, the average user of Wikipedia hardly sees the main page. Most people just type in "wikipedia.com" or something along those lines, and end up at the welcome page and use search, bypassing the whole main page. Besides, I think the main page is perfect the way it is. It wouldn't be my homepage if it weren't. snowball71 (talk) 17:31, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

If someone does decide to propose a design you might want to look at the main pages of other language Wikipedias - I particularly like the Spanish, Italian, German and French Main Pages. Whilst I'm at it, I also like the way the French Wikipedia separates indented comments on talk pages. --Dave the Rave (DTR)talk 18:17, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

What a coincidence, I just saw an article that looked good, so I came to the main page to see if it also looked good, but nothing. So, I'll give it a go in about 15 days, after I'm done with finals (exams).

Do I need to check it first with someone? BTW I'm a graphic designer.Brodder (talk) 07:54, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Last time the main page was changed, there was a 'huge' discussion and several proposals and voting and suchlike. Changing the Main Page is a big deal. You might want to discuss this with people who were involved in changing it last time. btw, the French Wikipedia's style of indenting may look more interesting than the English version, but that talk page looks like a kiddie message board. We have enough trouble persuading people that talk pages are not chat rooms! 130.88.140.39 (talk) 15:07, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks about the advice, I'll try to reach the people before me and see what's the best route to go. I agree with user PureIntellect and Ferdia O., it needs to be more better! :P Brodder (talk) 19:26, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Change it for certain days like Holidays

Since Wikipedia is for English people and world citizen, we should have the British Monarch's birthday and the US independence day on 4 July as two holidays that can be changed to blue. This works because all English speaking countries are either US territories or part of the Commonwealth!!! Also, I know that Christmass is a religious holiday but in the Commonwealth and in the US it is very much a secular holiday. Or say Halloween, where the background can be changed to orange (for pumpkins) and for christmass it could be green red and white (for snow and for mistle toe). Tourskin (talk) 01:21, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

And st patricks day!! make it all green!! for realTourskin (talk) 01:23, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

While it would be good, the problem is holidays are not always international. Let me break it down:

• The Queen's actual birthday is nowhere as big, nor is the equivelant, of the US's Indepedence Day. Yes, there is a "Queen's Birthday" public holiday, but a) it is not actually the Queen's real birthday b) different places celebrate it at different times c) not all places in the Commonwealth do have a Queen's Birthday day. Each country usually has its own national day, so like how the US has Independance Day... Australia has Australia Day and New Zealand has Waitangi Day for example.
• Halloween is mainly an American thing, and would be very unprofessional.
• Christmas could work, even though in the Southern hemisphere Christmas is in summer (as you are suggesting wintery imagery, though the association of Christmas and Winter does exist here in Australia due to American influences).
• St Patricks Day is an American thing, really

I take serious offence to my country being labelled either a US territory or part of the Commonwealth, and St. Patrick's Day is not an American thing. Ferdia O'Brien (Talk) 03:22, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Lol sorry I forgot about Ireland having a large number of English speakers but yeah theres something for everyone in my list. There's nothing else British. And Halloween is not an American thing only. Tourskin (talk) 03:59, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Well Halloween did actually originate in Ireland as well, its an old Celtic feast. So if we do change the page on Holidays, Ireland will be featuring quite a bit.... if I have anything to say about it. :D Ferdia O'Brien (Talk) 14:56, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Halloween did not originate in Ireland. The 'end of summer' festival on October 31, ie what we now call Halloween, has been celebrated throughout much of Europe since pre-christian times. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.2.205.12 (talk) 13:57, 21 November 2007 (UTC):(

Yes, it was celebrated throughout Europe... having originated in Ireland, I encourage you to read this very encyclopaedias article on the subject. I think you'll find that Halloween is the modernisation of Samhain. Ferdia O'Brien (Talk) 00:57, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Samhain is an Irish Gaelic word and it names the end of summer event in Irish (and Scottish) culture, but it doesn't follow that the marking of the event originated in Ireland. Have a look at the entry for SAMON[IOS] in the Coligny calendar article. Samonios is a Gaulish word naming the same event. Are we to believe the Gauls borrowed all this from the Irish? I think not. The end of summer was an event that appears to have been commonly observed in all the Celtic regions. Its real origins are probably associated with the beginnings of agrarian culture in Europe.

Well I'm gonna stick with the generally excepted origins and not your beliefs my friend, also, please make proper use of indentations. Ferdia O'Brien (Talk) 03:05, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Stick with what you like when you don't have anywhere else to go - you haven't refuted anything stated. And don't tell people what to do you pompous twat. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.0.134.188 (talk) 10:25, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Ok, you want to argue for the sake of arguing, on this sub-thread that has nothing to do with the topic at hand I might add, fine, All Saints Day was celebrated throughout pre-christian Europe as you rightly said, however, the date was standardised by the church to that used by Samhain, and became the fest we now know as Halloween. Secondly, indentation is a standard on Wikipedia that is adhered to by all members, if you think thats the last time someone will point out one of more then likely many gaps in you knowledge of these standards, think again. Thirdly, make a personal attack like that again, and I will happily report you, and you will be disallowed from editing. This entry is an example of how to respond to someone who disagrees with you, while still adhering to etiquette, and as you will notice, I found no need to lower myself to personal attacks (of which I can think of a many that clearly apply to you), I suggest you take note. As I can see you haven't taken note of my last statement, please make proper use of indentation. Also, did you know that you can sign your comments by adding 4 tildes to the end (~~~~), just another little Wikipedia standard you should be aware of. Ferdia O'Brien (Talk) 14:34, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Sorry mate, I had known that St Patrick's Day has its roots in Ireland but I was under the impression that it was mainly celebrated in America (we don't celebrate it here in Australia, and I've only heard of it mentioned in American TV shows). Turns out I was wrong though, according to St Patrick's Day. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.99.82.107 (talk) 13:48, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

No worrys man, I'm a fan of your idea, as I am with most new ideas that are brought to Wikipedia because I think the place is stagnating slightly, but having said that, innovation must be done right, or not at all, so the holidays must be at there historic roots as well as there more popular ones (only both could be considered encyclopaedic) if we were to decorate the main page with them. Ferdia O'Brien (Talk) 16:56, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Another way to approach it would be to consider different designs for days other than holidays, something more international in flavor anyway. I have no idea what this would entail, just a thought. 67.173.131.28 (talk) 05:27, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

So what, specifically, do you all want to do to the main page on these days? I agree in principle, but I would like to see reasonably subtle changes (like google) rather than complete reskins (like, say, uncyclopedia). If people don't like the idea of changing the main page, maybe there could be some kind of preference thingy to govern it (it could be either on or off by default)? Bistromathic (talk) 15:13, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

What about all of the Chinese people who speak English? There are almost as many English speakers in China as there are in the USA. And according to England's PM, Chinese English-speakers will outnumber all others combined in twenty years. Cigarette (talk) 21:36, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

MichelleMorganDawn (talk) 19:24, 24 November 2007 (UTC)In Canada we celebrate St.Patricks day.

Disagree Way too cumbersome the main page would change everyday of the year and even conflict some days... Just because it is the "English" Wikipedia doesn't mean other non-"English" cultures cannot be reflected in the main page. You have all kinds of things during the year in all countries around the world and how do you rationalise a holiday's importance? E.g. Guy Fawkes Day is recognized in some English speaking countries but not others. Also India is an English speaking country and they among a few Caribbean countries celebrate Diwali/Divali and that is a *very* important time in India but it is days-- long. Also Emancipation Day in the British Empire is celebrated on different days by different countries how do you choose??? And lets not talk about British practice of a) holiday, b) bank holiday and so on... Or if a Holiday falls on a Saturday or Sunday etc... etc... CaribDigita (talk) 23:03, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

I was thinking that it could be simple recolourings to reflect the holiday (if that holiday has specific colours associated with it), and perhaps have a related featured article if one exists (which is something we pretty much do anyway), and perhaps to use the google example above, we could change the wikipedia logo appropriatly aswell. Ferdia O'Brien (Talk) 23:56, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

You guys are still talking about this? Fine, add colors for Chinese new year. Tourskin (talk) 00:30, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Why not something sutble like a logo change such as what Google does? (See here) TheGreatZorko (talk) 11:05, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

We already recognize holidays in the "On this day..." section. That's enough for me. snowball71 (talk) 17:31, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Three prominent items on the Main Page are Today's featured article, In the news and On this day... When looking at these items, I think its useful for the reader to be aware of the current date. (It actually says the date in the On this day... section already.) Is there an argument for displaying the current date (and maybe the time the page was loaded) somewhere near the top of the page? Perhaps above and aligned with the right of the box containing the Welcome to Wikipedia message? I think this would be a useful addition to the user interface. Nicgarner (talk) 12:26, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

The date and time, though, would be UTC which is known to cause confusion to some people. For example, readers in California would be told that today is, say, Friday whilst to them it is still 6pm on Thursday. Bazza (talk) 14:22, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

True. Is that not already a problem with the date as it is displayed in the On this day... section? Can technology not do something to help with this? I'm not very technological, but I know that the time can be displayed based on the users computer time. I know that's not a good solution, because the users computer clock might not be correct. Is there some way that the location of the user can be detected when the page is requested, and display the time as appropriate? Nicgarner (talk) 23:01, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes we can. See geolocation for more information about this. This is something we already takes advantage of, such as in the case of geonotices. It's not 100% accurate (for a general picture-go to www.ip-adress.com, and see how accurately it determines your location, browser, and operating system) and some users express concerns about their privacy, but it works pretty well. Puchiko (Talk-email) 20:36, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Well, I guess if anyone cared enough to be interested, there would have been more comment. I think it would be a useful addition to the Main Page interface, but looks like no one else does. Or is there somewhere better I should be raising this? Nicgarner (talk) 00:57, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

No, no,this is the place for it, I've already given my (supporting) views on this above. Ferdia O'Brien (Talk) 22:04, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

No. Changing the main page up for certain holidays will prompt some to ask that some minor far flung event be given a theme. And then, at the end of it, the Main Page looks different almost every day. If you want to celebrate something, change your signature. Pacific Coast Highway ^{{ho ho ho • under the tree}} 16:26, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but that's what we use criteria for, we could have that it must be respected in at least 6 country's across or something of that nature. Follow your logic and we shouldn't have anything on my main page at all. Ferdia O'Brien (Talk) 22:33, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

That what I meant when I said "no". Pacific Coast Highway ^{{ho ho ho • under the tree}} 18:55, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Disagree Leave one day out and get hate mail. Or observe one day in the wrong way (e.g. Memorial Day in the US) and commit a NPOV violation. Also, which holidays will be considered in the first place? The English-language Wikipedia encompasses quite a large number of the world's many cultures. HiramShadraski 17:58, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

I support this idea. Marlith ^T/C 01:46, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Removal of 2007 civil unrest in Villiers-le-Belises (France)

See Template talk:In the news#Removal of 2007 civil unrest in Villiers-le-Belises (France).

In the news: Evil Knievel

moved to WP:ITN/C#December 2.

Grammatical errors & POV in Main Page articles

I have corrected grammatical and spelling errors in previous FAs and see that a factual error was corrected in today's FA lead. Why aren't FAs scrutinized more thoroughly before being put on the main page? clariosophic (talk) 15:01, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately I guess, there are not enough people who bother to scrutinise a FA before it appears on the main page Nil Einne (talk) 15:52, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Yeah. A couple of reviewers read through it to make sure it can get promoted to FA class, and a couple of editors are always previewing the main page a day early. But we can't those to be informed about that specific subject. Thankfully, factual errors are rare, but they are a major problem when they do occur.
It might be a good idea to notify the wikiprojects whenever "their" article is promoted, and ask them to check over it (People on Wikiproject Chemistry are likely to be interested in chemistry, and therefore know something about it). However, this won't be very efficient in the case of wikiprojects dealing with a broad range of articles (such as Wikiproject Biography).
At the end of the day, it just boils down to one thing: Wikipedia needs more contributors. Puchiko (Talk-email) 21:33, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Not more (we have plenty of contributors), but better organization of their efforts. Currently everybody putters around working on their own areas of interest. If we required everybody to loan 5% of their contributions to things the project needs doing (like stubsensor, disambig sorting, fact-checking FAs, etc.) just think of the possibilities! Danthemankhan 03:59, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

But what if I don't want to do those tasks? I'm a volunteer, so as long as all of my activities are good for Wikipedia in some way, I should not be forced to do something else. I helped out with stubsensor once, and found it to be a rather boring repetitive task. I believe that I am much more valuable as a Czech to English translator (currently the only active one). Puchiko (Talk-email) 12:46, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

There's no great answer to that. We're all volunteers. Unfortunately at least two really bad articles got promoted through Wikipedia:Featured Article Candidates in the last few months because like 6 people voted "yes" and there wasn't a chorus of people with some common sense who were interested enough to shout down the proposals. Disclaimer: I don't have time to participate in that either, so I suppose I'm to blame too. Tempshill (talk) 19:46, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Inaccessible

[[Moved from WP:ERROR Woody (talk) 22:57, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations, you have one of the most difficult web sites to navigate that I have ever encountered. Everytime I have tried to do something or find something or edit something, I have become inundated with information and rules and regulations 90% of which had noting to do with what I was attempting. After hours of trying, I still haven't figured out how to comment on even a simple definition. Think its time for me to throw in the towel. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Drichar (talk • contribs) 01:26, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

We could be better, but at least we have a Wikipedia:Help desk. Or tell us what definition you mean. Art LaPella (talk) 02:30, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Not sure what you mean. To find an article, type the general name into the search bar. Wikipedia is not a search engine, so phrases ("Who won the Super Bowl", for example) won't register an immediate article. 99% of Wikipedia's articles are open to all anonymous users for editing, but remember that we have rules and guidelines like any community. Perhaps you could be more specific on what you're trying to find, or what you're trying to edit? ShadowUltra (talk) 00:56, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

That is why we have the Adoption program and the Welcoming Committee. Marlith ^T/C 02:18, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Seems you edited this talk page just fine... 68.143.88.2 (talk) 21:02, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

News picture

File:Newstoday 1.png

So he shot a lot of people and himself, and then waved cheerfully to the crowd?

Is there anyway to have the picture in the news section related to the first item in the box? As it is, an initial glance looks as though Hugo Chávez was the gunman that killed nine people in Omaha. --Bob (talk) 19:39, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

The usual goal is to have an image for the first item with an available free picture. It usually works out relatively decently, but every once in a while we end up with a long-ish run of stories with none, such as now. Nothing really to be done about it.--Fyre2387 ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:46, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Barring someone who knew Hawkins personally and has a photograph that they're willing to release under a free licence, the only real alternative would be for someone living in Omaha, Nebraska to head down to Westroads Mall and take a picture of the site (the one we have currently is *very* dodgy, copyright-wise). GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 00:00, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

If we just want a new image, a photo of the PM of Togo would be good Nil Einne (talk) 09:33, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Could the Chávez story be placed top? Or are there other criteria for story order? 81.174.226.229 (talk) 09:01, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Stories are always placed in chronological order Nil Einne (talk) 09:33, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

This "policy" does need to change. It makes us look quite stupid on people's very first visit to Wikipedia. The photo usually does not match the first news item, and the problem is fixable. Make the story with the photo first. Tempshill (talk) 17:08, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

There have been several suggestions for change previously, so far none of them have gotten much support IIRC. In any case, I'm not sure if everyone is convinced it's a problem. Nil Einne (talk) 17:45, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

An image of the flag of Omaha or an image of an AK47 (the weapon believed to be used) could both be used, or something like this - just be creative, but make it look better, please. --Bob (talk) 17:32, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Several admins are against the use of flags since it's argued they don't add much. Maps have similar problems to flags (it's been argued they don't mean much if you don't already know the geography of the area and if you do, you don't really need a map). As for the gun, I don't think you'd find much support for that for numerous reasons. For example I suspect you'll have similar opposition as with a flag or map (it's a generic image which doesn't tell you much about the specific story). As well as the fact it may be seen as either POV pushing or perhaps morbid. Finally it AFAIK remains unconfirmed that the gun was an AK-47 with some conflicting info (Plus AK-47s can vary quite a lot in how they look). Nil Einne (talk) 17:44, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

And a generic old image of Chavez is better because... --Bob (talk) 17:51, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

IIRC, the feeling is that as the item is about Chavez it's specific to the item and shows something which is meaningful (not everyone knows what Chavez looks like but many might be interested in seeing him and for those that do, it will tell them the item has something to do with Chavez, some people may recognise Chavez but may not know his name). On the other hand with a flag, most people don't know or care what the flag of Omaha looks like. And if you do, you'd probably recognise the word Omaha just as much as you will the flag, and it doesn't really tell you anything about the item which only losely has to do with Omaha (it occured in Omaha but it has nothing to do with Omaha). Similarly with a map, if you already know what Omaha looks like then showing it probably doesn't provide more info or is more easily recognisable then saying Omaha especially at the size we're talking about I don't think many people will recognise the flag or the map but will not recognise Omaha. And if you don't recognise the map, you probably don't really care to learn where Omaha is and again as with the flag, the story doesn't really have anything to do with Omaha. In this case, the Chavez connection is perhaps a bit loose as well since it was a constitutional referedum supported by Chavez not an election which Chavez won but it's arguably still a lot stronger then Omaha to the story. Or to put it simply, the flag or map are more decorative then functional whereas the picture of Chavez is more functional. Nil Einne (talk) 18:01, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

even though it is out of date and badly positioned? I gave examples of some things to use, I also said be creative, as it currently looks shockingly bad and amateurish. Your arguments against using a map are also applicable to that precise image of Chavez. Also, please drop the geek-speak, not everyone understands computer initialisms (I certainly don't) --Bob (talk) 18:22, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

You could use Wikipedia to look them up. LOL. Really, though, Nil Einne is right that the photo of Chavez is more relevant to the Chavez news item than a gun or map would be relevant to the mall shooting news item. It sounds like "relevance to some item in the news section" is Nil Einne's criterion for what picture should be in the news section. I'm not sure if that's the best approach, but let's say it is. We at a minimum need to have the story associated with the picture right at the top. No news website in the world puts a lead next to a photo that does not match. And, yes, "Wikipedia is not a news website", but this area of the main page is a news website. Tempshill (talk) 19:42, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

The same ITN template looks great at Portal: Current events. --74.14.19.109 (talk) 04:06, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, I don't see how there is any problem with this template on Portal: Current events. This illustrates one of the problems which a lot of people fail to realise. The template works fine in many cases and changing it simply for one version of the main page is not considered good practice or acceptable (there are versions of the main page when it's not a problem as well e.g. Wikipedia:Main Page alternative (PDA version)) Nil Einne (talk) 06:15, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Actually ITN is implicitly NOT a news website. This is a common misconception and is one reason why people have suggested it be renamed. Also, I'm somewhat doubtful the suggestion for changing placement of the story will get much support. We already get sufficient complaints when a image stays for too long. Yet if we were to effectively selective highlight one story at the top of a page for a long time because we don't have any new images, we're liable to get many more complaints. Even worse, since very often we only have images for US items, you can just hear the screams of US bias that will result when we selectively highlight US stories. Nil Einne (talk) 06:03, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

IIRC is hardly geek speak... Whatever the case, you say to be creative. But so far, no one has come up with a suitable suggestion for an image which is sufficiently relevant to a more recent story in the eyes of admins (hint, this is NOT me). Until and unless someone does, things are not going to change. Telling people to be creative is somewhat pointless since obviously the people involved are not 'creative' enough or the problem would be resolved. If you're so sure it can be done, why don't you come up with something that is sufficiently relevant to a more recent story? Remember wikipedia is made by unpaid editors which can include you, not by a paid workforce. There's little point telling people to 'fix' something if you don't have an acceptable solution and one is not obvious to the people doing the 'fixing'. Nil Einne (talk) 06:08, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Can I just butt in and say here that it's probably the first (and last) time that I show off the addition I made on Wikipedia:Main Page FAQ back in April?[5] Zzyzx11 (Talk) 06:43, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

So the photo should not match the lead in that box because it screws up formatting on another page. This is a lazy and half-assed reason to make Wikipedia look stupid on the main page. Tempshill (talk) 23:17, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

LOL... People are complaining because they think the picture of Chavez makes it look like he killed nine people in Ohama and then waved to the crowd? Never would have crossed my mind. And no, Tempshill, it's because we don't have a good free image about the shooting, and anything we did have about it (a picture of the mall, for instance) wouldn't fit the item very well. Chavez is just fine where he is. Grandmasterka 23:26, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Let me try again without being Mr. Inflammatory. This is the main page of Wikipedia. When people look at the ITN box, and they see a photo that is mismatched with the lead, they say, "Haw, haw, Wikipedia is stupid," the same way that occasionally occurs with the algorithmically generated photo matching on Google News. We need to make the main page of Wikipedia look good. A mismatched photo looks like amateurville. Any reason given to justify a mismatched photo is misplaced, IMO, because it needs to look good, and a mismatched photo looks terrible. Fears about increased complaints because the Chavez story would be the highest story for longer - then move the photo down to sit next to that bullet point. Tempshill (talk) 23:28, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

This is pretty simple, and Fyre2387, Tempshill, and others are right. The ITN picture should match the lead ITN blurb. If the the lead has no picture, fine - no picture. This is pretty elementary. --Elliskev 23:40, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Agree DmitryChestnykh

I wrote a proposal for this at Template talk:In the news#ITN photo proposal if people would care to weigh in, support, or denounce it. Tempshill (talk) 17:07, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Um did you bother to read the FAQ answer at all? It didn't occur to me to link to it so it was good for Zyxx to point it out. It specifically address why we cannot move the photo down. Nil Einne (talk) 20:19, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to thank Tempshill, Elliskev and DmitryChestnykh for demonstrating that this concern stems entirely from the mistaken belief that ITN contains a "lead" item. Obviously, this confusion is something that should be addressed, probably by removing "news" from the name (as had been discussed on several occasions). —David Levy 18:48, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Lead, lede, first story, whatever. Semantics. The first item in the list. Sheesh. The point still stands. --Elliskev 00:31, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm not nitpicking. Your expectation that the image will pertain to the first item listed appears to stem from the mistaken impression that ITN operates (or could reasonably be expected to operate) like a newspaper or news website (placing the story designated the most important at the top). —David Levy 18:17, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

No... My expectation that the image will pertain to the first item listed is based on two things - how people read (top to bottom) and the proximity of the picture to the bulleted item at the top. I don't really care how ITN operates. I care about the layout being less than ideal. --Elliskev 20:50, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

And your idea of an "ideal" layout has nothing to do with what you're accustomed to seeing in newspapers and on news websites?

We label the relevant item with the word "pictured." For people capable of reading English text, I don't see what's so difficult to understand about that. Yes, the image might appear incongruous at first glance, but people are supposed to actually read the section. —David Levy 21:40, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Obviously, we're not going to agree. You're assuming a lot about my sense of "ideal". This is a disagreement about style. I think the style we have now sucks. Categorize my opinion all you want. It won't change my mind. --Elliskev 21:55, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

For what it's worth, Elliskev is right and David Levy is wrong. People read top to bottom, and expect the tightest possible proximity between a picture and the associated text. That's because, as David Levy haughtily puts it, those of us who can read English text have been raised to expect this in roughly 100% of the printed material we read. People have not, on the other hand, spent their lives carefully reading through many bullets of information in order to figure out what a nearby picture is about. Tempshill (talk) 22:07, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Quotes in the Header

The quotes in the header are really obnoxious....there's something wrong with an encyclopedia posting self-praise at the top of every article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.41.106.251 (talk) 17:29, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Obnoxious or not, the quotes are from people who donated to the WMF. Most of them are not involved in the WMF. Some of them may be wikipedians, some of them are probably just readers. As far as I'm aware there is no general restriction on the comments that will show although perhaps excesively rude ones may be removed. If you wanted to donate and say wikipedia is dumb, I suspect it could show. The only thing is, most people who donate must like wikipedia or the WMF or they won't be donating. In any case, my main point is it's questinably if they can really be called self praise. More like a store which shows comments from their customers although at least we aren't (AFAIK) cherry picking the best. Nil Einne (talk) 17:50, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Firefox and AdBlock Plus will get rid of the whole annoying block. I've forgotten it's even there. 199.89.180.65 (talk) 21:05, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

• Or you can click the big "hide this message" button right to the side of it? —Dark•Shikari^[T] 21:35, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

• Not if you're not logged in. 86.142.48.123 (talk) 21:40, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Even if you are, it keeps coming back, like the undead. The button is a temporary placebo. --Nricardo (talk) 22:11, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Jokes

I hope there aren't many jokes about the current FA (Uranus). That's quite old now. Simply south (talk) 22:40, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Forget the name, That is one boring looking planet. It needs more hurricanes or something. 72.10.110.107 (talk) 22:41, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Redirected from Main page

If you click on the Main page link in the navigation sidebar, you see (redirected from Main page) in the upper-left corner. I think you need to change MediaWiki:Mainpage or MediaWiki:Sidebar to fix this. - FISDOF9 00:53, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Fixed. Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 01:00, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Unprotected!

The Main Page is unprotected right now, so please protect it. - FISDOF9 05:13, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

True, but not. The page itself isn't protected, but since its translcuded onto protected pages, it is protected. See WP:PROTECT#Cascading_protection ~Sasha Callahan _(Talk) 05:16, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Done. Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 05:18, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I have enabled cascade protection for the page. --Meno25 (talk) 05:20, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

So... did anyone happen to notice if either of the backup systems kicked in while the main page was deleted? --- RockMFR 05:41, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I didn't know it was. What are the backup systems? ~Sasha Callahan _(Talk) 05:43, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Pathoschild's "We are currently experiencing technical difficulties" image showed up, so yes. Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 05:44, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Okay. I guess there is only one backup system (the subpages + the cascade notice). --- RockMFR 05:45, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Actually David Levy and I set that message up. Prodego ^talk 19:53, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Since the reason why it was "unprotected" was it was deleted, is it possible to "delete-protect" the page (ie only Stewards can delete it)? ~Sasha Callahan _(Talk) 05:48, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Not that I know of. Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 05:50, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't know of one either, although that's not a bad idea for a feature request.--Fyre2387 ^{(talk • contribs)} 05:54, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

It's been asked before, actually. Bug 9625, closed previously as WONTFIX... Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 05:58, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

It wouldn't help anything. Instead of deleting the main page, they'd just edit it. Or do one of the many worse things that can't be fixed by a sysop in 5 seconds... --- RockMFR 05:56, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Tito, for that link, it pretty much answers my question. ~Sasha Callahan _(Talk) 06:02, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Although reviewing the patch, it makes it impossible to delete the page by anyone, so that may or may not be good precedent for this case. Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 06:03, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

John Lennon and (UTC)

Since the attack occurred at 10:50pm EST, wouldn't that make the death December 9, UTC? It always feels like I'm a bit into tomorrow when I log in during the evening, so I want to be sure that local time is the protocol for the event. What if an event occurs over several time zones? MMetro (talk) 07:57, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I do believe local time zones are used. As for events occurring over multiple time zones, I can't really think of any. Can you? ~Sasha Callahan _(Talk) 07:59, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes local time is used. When there is no local time, such as events occuring over multiple timezones without one being the clear cut centre, then we may use UTC but otherwise it's always UTClocal time. John Lennon died on December 8th just as he was born on 9th October Nil Einne (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 09:03, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Virtually anything that happens accross Russia happens across at least 4 time zones.GowsiPowsi (talk) 11:01, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps I'm mistaken but I would presume most events in Russia are localised to one area. For example a demonstration in Moscow will be in Moscow. A terrorist attack in Beslan is in Beslan. A murder in St Petersburg... An earthquake with its epicentre in Vladisvostok... Of course there will be some events without a clear centre but I guess even when it comes to Russia or the United States, most events occur only in one timezone. In any case, provided the events aren't close to midnight, it's unlikely to affect what day we choose although it may make it difficult to decide what time to choose Nil Einne (talk) 15:34, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

An example of an event happening on multiple time zones: The Hong Kong handover ceremony, the internationally televised event of the transfer of the sovereignty of Hong Kong, occurred at 16:00 UTC, so it was posted on the June 30 template. Of course, iirc, one day later there was someone here posting why it was not on the July 1 template... And it does not help when the Transfer of the sovereignty of Hong Kong article predominately says "July 1" while the Hong Kong handover ceremony article predominately says "June 30"... Zzyzx11 (Talk) 07:05, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

But the basic rule of thumb, like any other thing on these templates, is that if the UTC date and time is specified and verified in the article, that day is where it will be posted. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 07:22, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Moved to Wikipedia talk:Selected anniversaries Nil Einne (talk) 10:23, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

For even more fun — an event that occurs in no time zone — Apollo 11 landing. Evil Monkey - Hello 20:24, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I was thinking of that but if I'm not mistaken most astronaut related events are treated as coming from the timezone either of where they launch from or their mission control. However it occured to me that a good example is an eclipse or an asteroid hitting the moon (large enough that it's visible from the earth). Such events clearly have no time zone either direct or derived Nil Einne (talk) 06:36, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Shootings story

I think we should give these stories as little attention as possible, lets not play there game! AJUK ^Talk!! 16:37, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Lets also not report the Iraq War. We can't be having terrorists get free publicity. Lets also erase Holocaust and Hitler articles. We can't be giving into posting propaganda for the Neo-Nazis. 128.227.83.204 (talk) 16:42, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

These people only do these things to get attention, I know hes dead but there are plenty of other potential people like him around! AJUK ^Talk!! 20:22, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Is the gunman story the biggest thing in the news? Having it above the Venezuelan Referendum and the story about Iran's nuclear program makes it seem out of place. This isn't something that would be in the news in most countries. Even the story on the mummified dinosaur found in the usa is more appropriate for the main page. --Hamsterlopithecus (talk) 23:02, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Stories are in the order of occurrence, not importance. Evil Monkey - Hello 03:28, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Newer News?

Can we get any newer news on the page? The shooter story has been there since the fifth, and now it's the 9th. Mac Davis (talk) 11:05, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Do you have any suggestions? There's currently nothing that seems to fit the criteria (at least as accepted by other editors) that have been proposed to WP:ITN/C. We can't exactly make ITN material if none exists (well we could but I wouldn't recommend it) Nil Einne (talk) 11:34, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

The only stories I could come across that hasn't yet been proposed but may fit the bill is the Hebei Spirit oil spill and perhaps the destruction of tapes by the CIA or the 2007 Africa-EU Summit. Unfortunately the first two don't have an article so even if they are suitable, they're still fairly far from reaching ITN. The third one does but it's quite far from ITN standard Nil Einne (talk) 12:01, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I've started Hebei Spirit oil spill. You're welcome to contribute Nil Einne (talk) 14:42, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Glad to see this on the Main Page, without Chavez waving at us. Thanks. --199.71.174.100 (talk) 17:00, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

chavez wikipedia's mascot

what is he doing there for a month or something. he's not even in the news anymore. --Leladax (talk) 00:17, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

By a month, you mean 5 days? 128.227.5.39 (talk) 00:48, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Apparently the "I hate old white guys on the Main Page syndrome" is now replaced with "I hate old Hispanic guys on the Main Page syndrome". --Howard the Duck 04:05, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

To be honest I don't think the colour of skin or even the age matters that much. I think given wikipedia's audience the only way to avoid these complaints would be if we had an occasion to feature Image:Michele Merkin 1.jpg at ITN for several days. Except that then we'd keep getting complaints about promoting porngraphy and harming kids... Maybe a cute kitten would avoid all complaints (although we'll probably start getting complaints from dog lovers eventually) Nil Einne (talk) 06:39, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

He's pulling a "Nancy Pelosi" The Placebo Effect (talk) 04:16, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I've changed it. Borisblue (talk) 05:00, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't object to that particular image being on the main page for five days. Or maybe a week. Or a year. Or forever...ShadowUltra (talk) 06:55, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

There is nothing in wikipedia about who globla warming affects the life cycle.And there is not much information about the life cycle either. How do you expect people to be informed??? You should add something about it. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.19.60.123 (talk) 16:25, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, 87.19.60.123, you should be adding that yourself, too. Wikipedia is never complete and there will be always new stuffs to add. BTW, this page is intended for discussion on the Main Page only. Suggestions for the global warming page should be posted at Talk: Global warming. Thanks. --199.71.174.100 (talk) 16:59, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

New President in Argentina!

What about the appointment in Argentina of the new President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner? It should be on "In the News". The ceremony just finished.http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7136835.stm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.123.166.125 (talk) 19:05, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Its not really news. She was president elect since October. She was going to be president pending any problems. Since there are no problems, she will become president. Elections are important since they decide the path a country is taking, inaugurations decide nothing. 128.227.87.68 (talk) 20:12, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Then why we can currently can see the news about Komlan Mally appointment in Togo, on December 6, when he was appointed as a president on December 3??. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.123.166.125 (talk) 20:27, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Well I think both shouldn't be there. But if Togo gets it, Argentina should. 128.227.87.68 (talk) 20:35, 10 December 2007 (UTC)