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October 21

history of kit car EVOLUTION V8 KITCAR

wondreing if anybody knows anything about these kit cars? they look good, am interested in buying one, but cannot seem to find any information on them. any help gratefully appreciated —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.183.140.50 (talk) 00:32, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Are you thinking of this: GKD Evolution ? Having to start with a BMW 3-series makes this an expensive car by the standards of most kit-cars! But it looks nice - and a 1600lb car with a 6 cylinder BMW 3-series engine under the hood should be pretty amazingly fast. SteveBaker (talk) 04:43, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Tincture of labels in heraldry

Is there any particular rule about what tincture a label should be? In particular, is there any truth to the story that labels argent are a royal privilege? Marnanel (talk) 02:44, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

You may want to post this at the Humanities reference desk if you haven't done so already. --71.111.194.50 (talk) 08:20, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Practice may differ between different heraldic jurisdictions. In English heraldry the label used as as mark of cadency "goes back to the time of Henry III (reigned 1216-1272) . . . . Initially there was no particular system . . . ; however, no doubt on visual grounds, it was almost always white." (Ottfried Neubecker, Heraldry: sources, symbols and meanings, McGraw Hill 1976.) According to Charles Boutell's English Heraldry (Cassel, Petter & Galpin, 3rd Ed 1875), "The Label, with various Differences, has generally been the Royal Mark of Cadency; and now differenced silver Labels are bourne, to mark Cadency, by every member of the Royal Family."

Note that English non-royalty uses a system of cadency marks other than labels for all but the first and second heirs, and Neubecker (ibid) goes on to say "The only feature which the system of marks of difference of English heraldry in general has in common with that of the royal family is the use of a silver label for the eldest son."

Combined with my general heraldic knowledge, I take these references to imply that, in English heraldry:

1. a non-cadency Label (i.e. one bourne as a general charge) could be of any tincture, subject to the usual Rule of Tincture;
2. cadency Labels on Royal arms are now by custom always Argent, though originally they were not necessarily Argent/White;
3. on non-Royal arms, a (three-point) cadency Label for the first heir (usually the eldest son) is now customarily argent, but the (five-point) label for the second heir (usually his eldest son) may well be of another tincture.

So to answer the questions directly: within the jurisdiction of The College of Heralds there is no particular rule governing the tincture of a label bourne as a non-cadency charge, and cadency Labels argent are not a Royal privilege. Remember, however, that arms themselves are invalid unless granted by the appropriate heraldic authority, and while cadency marks customarily do not require formal ratification, one would nevertheless be wise to seek the guidance of one's applicable heraldic body.87.81.230.195 (talk) 13:17, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Purely off the top of my head (and from the far back of my memory), I think that there would have to be at least one alternate colour for a label which (unlike the Royal Arms) would cover arms which have large fields or charges of Argent (silver/white). And I think that charges of difference other than labels can be used (with proper authority) to distinguish those members of the family who are not entitled to bear the undifferenced arms. —— Shakescene (talk) 06:41, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, indeed, while the (British) Royal Family uses a cadency system of three- and 5-point labels, with small charges on the labels' points to differentiate further between them, non-royal Britons and others subject to the College of Heralds customarily (though not invariably nor by compulsion) use a series of small single charges, usually borne on the honour point or in chief. In order of 1st to 9th son of the arms holder they are: 1st (heir) - 3-point label; 2nd - crescent; 3rd - molet; 4th - martlet; 5th - annulet; 6th - fleur-de-lis; 7th - rose; 8th - cross moline; 9th - octofoil; this order became standardised around the 16th century (before which many other methods of cadency - different charges, changes of tinctures, etc, were used, including non-argent labels). As previously mentioned, the son of the 1st son, who is the 2nd heir, usually bears a 5-point label; sons of the other son may apply a further mark from list to their fathers' marks, so for example the 3rd son of the arms bearers' 2nd son may bear a molet on a crescent.

These personal cadency marks do not require matriculation by the College of Heralds, because changing circumstances would necessitate numerous and frequent (and expensive) rematriculations for all concerned, but the College will give advice on the matter if asked. Note however that the Scots use an entirely different method of marking cadency, usually involving bordures, these are permanent except in the case of the labels used by the direct heirs - for example, the 2nd son of the arms bearer may be assigned, say, a bordure argent, which will be passed on to his heirs - and therefore they do require confirmation (and in practice usually assignment) by the Court of the Lord Lyon. Of course, while many people in the British Commonwealth are subject to either the College or the Lyon Court, the practices under other European or non-Commonwealth heraldic Authorities may be quite different. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 16:01, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Clock Question

[edit] Clock Question To whom it may concern:

Back in 1993 I was given a hand made clock with two cards (A and J)on the left, in the middle is the clock (with the back ground a 12 noon heart, 3 o'clock club, 6 o'clock diamond & a 9 o'clock spand symbols), and the top right side is a red chip with a very large 'B' and around the B is the words; ROULETTE, top and bottom. On the bottom of the right side ia a red book of matches that reads: HOLIDAY CASINO, ON THE STRIP, BETWEEN SANDS & FLAMINGO HOTELS, address is as follows: 3473 LAS VEGAS BLVD, SOUTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89109 (all lettering is in white caps). The frame is AROUND: 2" wide (all around), with a clear glass front.

I have looked all over the internet to see if I could find any item and or casino that even came close to this hanging item, I did come very close to finding a casino on the strip in Las Vegas, which made me fill pretty good. I also found a little info that Holiday Inn bought the Holidy Casino out around the early 70's.

Could you please help me find out some info on this item. I thought that maybe a collector or someone would be insterested in buying it.

I just want to say thank you for your help either way.

email redacted—Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.16.134.33 (talk) 09:27, 19 October 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.16.134.33 (talk)

The casino in question is Harrah's Las Vegas. I found a couple of clocks with similar accoutrements on ebay, craigslist etc, they seem to sell (or at least, be offered) for around $5-10. [1] FiggyBee (talk) 03:27, 21 October 2009 (UTC) how strange that both ebay and craigslist have disambig hats to weird al songs

How to promote oneself as a writer without resorting to spamming

How does one promote himself as a fiction writer without resorting to spamming or any other dishonorable procedure?

Obviously even if you are a Charles Dickens in the making, you won't be able to share your talent to the world without someone noticing your potential, right?

• I assume that wikipedia, though a noble cause and a good place to practice writing, is not a good way to promote yourself since somebody else will edit your entry sooner or later.
• I also assume that joining story writing contests are also good ways of promoting yourself but only a few are held in the Philippines annually.

--202.92.128.27 (talk) 08:02, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

From what I understand, one of the first things that new novelists should do is to talk to a literary agent. They can assist you in finding a publisher for your work. As far as using Wikipedia as a practice grounds, that's probably not the best idea for a fiction writer since fiction and encyclopedia entries are not (or at least shouldn't be) written in the same style. Dismas|^(talk) 08:24, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

If you're saying you could create a Wikipedia article on yourself as a way of promoting yourself - that's not on. You must first of all be notable to qualify for an article; and even then, you can't create or edit your own article as this is a conflict of interests. The best you could do would be to contribute to the talk page of such an article. But, as I say, you have to be notable in the first place, before an article on you would be permitted. -- JackofOz (talk) 08:44, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Huh? He specifically discounted the idea of writing an article about himself in his first bullet point. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 09:28, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I didn't read it that way, Richard. To me, he was saying that it may be OK in principle to do that, but he wouldn't do it because other editors would eventually change his words about himself, and he wouldn't want that. Whereas, I'm arguing it's not even OK in principle to create your own article. -- JackofOz (talk) 10:25, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

AFAIK, it's not that users aren't allowed to edit articles about themselves, it's just scrutinized more when they do it. It's hard for people to be objective about an article about themselves but not impossible (e.g. Cory Doctorow). Dismas|^(talk) 09:18, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Are you published or unpublished? If unpublished then submitting stories to competitions is one way, but you could try and find magazines that publish stories. And approach a range of magazines, newspapers, etc to get other work there maybe reviewing or writing other stuff - a local, student, or special-interest publication may be eager for staff, and many people go from journalism to writing fiction. I don't know what language you write in, but you could try sending your work abroad if that's appropriate. Also consider joining a writers group or creative writing class, which will enable you to meet people and get info on places to publish. You could also try writing a blog, which may attract interest in you and the topics you write about and allow you to practice writing. Unless you're published and have been reviewed in major publications or given some award, it's against Wikipedia policy for anyone to create a Wikipedia entry about that writer (see Wikipedia:Notability). --Lesleyhood (talk) 10:33, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

thanks for the tips. By the way, I can write in both Filipino and English though I prefer the latter as it is more flexible and understood by more people. As I said, I was against spamming and having your self-created biography article in wikipedia carried by wikimirrors is an unfair mode of self-promotion. (different IP) --122.52.38.3 (talk) 12:19, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I have a great book called Writers' & Artists' Yearbook 2009. It is filled with information about how to get published, but it is very UK-centric. Perhaps there is a similar book published in your locality. Astronaut (talk) 14:22, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

What ever happened to the concept of 'blogging'? If you are a writer at heart and want the world to know you, start blogging. And there are no restrictions here. You could even write about yourself. Publish your blog and promote it through social media like facebook, twitter etc and you will soon get noticed for your content. People all over the world have turned celebrity writers with their blogs. Once you get established as a writer, known for his content or writing style and win yourself a considerable number of regular readers, you could approach a publisher to start writing your own book.KarenJohn (talk) 09:35, 22 October 2009 (UTC)KarenJohn

how to remove white areas on leather

I recently purchased a second hand sandal on ebay since it is a branded item. It has white areas which I don't know what they are but the make the sandal look very bad - please have a look at http://i.imagehost.org/0295/leather.jpg . I don't think it is fungus since the area has not expanded in the following days after the purchase. Could you please say how to remove them?. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.220.46.26 (talk) 09:02, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I think the marks are caused by water (or perhaps salt from seawater or sweat) - not uncommon in wetter climates. There are plenty of remedies if you do a search. Astronaut (talk) 14:13, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Black Shoe polish. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 21:25, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Tap water applied with a cloth can remove these marks as they are made by common salt (either from sweat or seawater).

BTW, what are you going to do with only one sandal-- walk with a limp? —Preceding unsigned comment added by BlueTurret (talk • contribs) 23:22, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

BlueTurret, would you have said that to someone with only one leg? DOR (HK) (talk) 06:23, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

what's a hand sandal?Gzuckier (talk) 07:24, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

If that's a pedantic dig at not hyphenating "second-hand", one could well ask why your own question did not start with a capital letter. -- 202.142.129.66 (talk) 02:48, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

thanks for your inputs white areas seem to have largely disappeared and i just have to wait for it to dry and remove remaining white areas should they exist. My english is not very good and i should have typed a pair of sandals instead of a sandal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.220.46.25 (talk) 08:45, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Countries That Don't Use Postage Stamps

Are there any countries that used to use postage stamps (either their own issued ones or ones issued by another country) but which have now abandoned the practice altogether? By 'postage stamps' I mean the ones that you either lick or glue to the envelope by some other means, and not rubber stamps or pre-printed envelopes (which is what I mean by 'abandoned the practise altogether). --KageTora - SPQW - (影虎) (talk) 12:45, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Don't know of any like that, but you might like Postal services in Andorra which is the exact opposite, they have two different postal services! Dmcq (talk) 17:39, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, that article also says that postal delivery within Andorra is free, so at least for internal mail they actually don't use postage stamps. But they do for mail to other countries. --Anon, 05:14 UTC, October 22, 2009.

The Universal Postal Union has requirements for international mail and postage stamps that are often not enforced for purely domestic mail, e.g. denominations of price or the country's name. —— Shakescene (talk) 18:41, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Do you mean only currently-existing countries? As of 2003 (when I bought a complete set of Scott catalogues), all countries issued postage stamps (none made of rubber, but a few made out of plastic). I'm a subscriber to a leading US stamp-collecting periodical that covers worldwide matters; I'm sure that it would have had an article on any country that stopped issuing stamps, and I'm confident that there haven't been any such articles since 2003. Nyttend (talk) 02:44, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

cities with low elevation

I am looking for a list of cities that are below sea level, such as New Orleans. Anyone know of one? Googlemeister (talk) 19:56, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I think in the states the only places possible are New Orleans and maybe some little town in Death Valley (California), since those are the only two states with lowest points being below sea level (see List of U.S. states by elevation). TastyCakes (talk) 20:04, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

(ec) You're going to have to turn in your user name :-P List of places on land with elevations below sea level. --LarryMac | Talk 20:08, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

The Netherlands article says that 27% of its land and 60% of its population is below sea level. It references this site. TastyCakes (talk) 20:09, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

What about Venice which is at 0m (0ft) sea level during normal tides, and regularly gets flooded as the water rises?-- Александр Дмитрий (Alexandr Dmitri) (talk) 22:02, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Sexoholic

Hi,

This question may seem to be a joke but it isn't. I've got a male roommate who is only 18. He is more or less handsome and he already has a sexual life much more rich than any average man at the end of his life. He moved with us for his job and after only 6 months, he slept with more than 5 colleagues, some of them easy, some of them really serious. He also told us that he never spent a month without having sex and had really weird experiences like sleeping with some 40-year-old women or with a daughter first and her mother then. I really don't understand how this guy manage to have so many girls (this is my first question). The second question is: is this guy "normal" or has he some psychological problems leading to a over normal sexual life? All the normal men I know spend months without relationships and sex and this very young guy show us that having sex is as easy as to go for a drink. How is it possible? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.210.30.250 (talk) 20:16, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

May I suggest directing your query to Girls Ask Guys [2], a more appropriate forum for enquiries of this nature. Vranak (talk) 20:31, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

That's extremely unhelpful, and why the hell are you directing him to another forum when he asked here —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.44.55.2 (talk) 21:02, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Incredibly bad faith! I know from experience that he likely won't get a very good answer here, so I pointed him elsewhere, which is in fact a more appropriate forum for this kind of question. Vranak (talk) 21:55, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

This is a reference desk, we find references for people. We don't generally answer "Is this normal?" type questions. --Tango (talk) 21:29, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, I smell something bovine my friend!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.4.186.107 (talk) 20:52, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

"How is it possible"? Human nature and a little charisma. Is he normal? Five girls in six months isn't a lot. There are many people out there who consider a week wasted if it hasn't involved at least two different girls (quick maths: 48 in 6 months). Has he had psychological problems? No way of knowing; ask him. Vimescarrot (talk) 21:19, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

There is no 'normal'. Plus he could be telling the odd lie here and there. People's sexual conquests are closely linked to their self esteem and how they think they are viewed by others. It's very common for young men to brag about sex with girls that didn't actually happen. He could easily be telling the truth though, some people do have quite a bit of sex. It's not that strange.Popcorn II (talk) 21:32, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I read somewhjere that the number of such relations per person in a study, in Sweden I think it was, followed a power law. It's like the number of visitors to a web site. So a small number of people have a very large number of encounters indeed. Dmcq (talk) 22:06, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Googled a document that goes on about this sort of thing [3]. Not what I was thinking of but it has lots of references. Dmcq (talk) 22:14, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Sex != relationship. If you're trying to have sex it's not all that hard to find men or women who are looking for the same. If you're trying for a relationship, it's not that hard to find people either. It's trying for both at the same time, or confusing the two, that creates hardships for people. As with all things in life, you tend to find what you are looking for. ~ Amory (u • t • c) 22:21, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Maybe he speaks in tongues. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:41, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

To put it in perspective I have had and still have a very unique and interesting personal sex life and I turned out socially acceptable and healthy. Full time job, no criminal record, financially stable. And Ive done things more extreme then anything posted here, with numerous people and party(s) and ages (with consent and legal of course). I think the individual is just experiencing life. As long as the parties involved are comfortable with the situation and it is legal then have at it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ivtv (talk • contribs) 00:22, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

I would suggest that the first question to ask yourself about this guy is: "Is this true? How do I know that?"...exaggerating about such things is hardly unknown! SteveBaker (talk) 00:45, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

The OP's question is probably more along the lines of jealousy than anything. When his roommate starts going to the clinic for VD treatments and/or gets fired for banging co-workers, that jealousy might evaporate. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:26, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Or maybe there won't be any negative consequences. Oh well. Such is life! Some people (appear) to get things that others don't, but that goes across the entire spectrum of social activities. We all have our high points, we all have our low points. If a little bit of envy is motivating, great. If it does nothing other than rankle—jettison it. --Mr.98 (talk) 17:26, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

What does the name aidan mean?

What does the name Aidan mean? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gingerman12345 (talk • contribs) 20:39, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

See:Aidan--Fribbler (talk) 20:41, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

October 22

Indigestible Dextrins

Does anybody know what indigestible dextrins are exactly (I think it is some sort of food additive)? And is so, could you provide examples? Also, is it unhealthy or have bad side effects? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.141.255.42 (talk) 03:05, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Dextrin's are, as described by our article, "low-molecular-weight carbohydrates produced by the hydrolysis of starch." An indigestible dextrin would be one that cannot be digested. Our article contains a description of several food-based uses of dextrins. --Jayron32 03:33, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Opening joke

I have been told to find a joke for my boss who will subsequently give a power point presentation. His idea is that since he has been preceded by many speakers, it would be better if he opens his speech with a joke so as to lighten the atmosphere as well as break the monotony !I have searched the Net. I could'nt find an appropriate one!His speech would be the annual report of my organization!Can anyone help me? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.93.243.233 (talk) 03:23, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Here's one of my favorite clean jokes of all time:

Jesus and Tiger Woods are playing golf. Moses, of course, is caddying for Jesus, and the party comes up to a tricky hole with a water hazard. Tiger pulls out his driver, crushes the ball over the water, and lands just short of the green. Moses says to Jesus "I'd lay up, hit maybe a 3 iron, and take it over the lake on the next shot." "Forget that" Jesus replies "Hand me my driver. If Tiger Woods can drive that lake, so can I. I'm Jesus, after all". The Lord takes a swing. Ploop. In the Lake. Jesus looks disgusted. "Moses, get that ball". Moses walks to the water, parts it, walks in, gets the ball, and drops it back in front of Jesus. By now, a crowd is gathering. Moses pulls out the 3-iron, and Jesus says "Put that thing away. I told you, If Tiger Woods hits driver over that lake, I will hit a driver over that lake." Swing, ploop. "I ain't getting that thing this time" says Moses "You get it yourself." So Jesus walks over through the crowd of onlookers, walks on the water, and bends over to pick up the ball. One of the spectators leans in to Moses and says "Who does that guy think he is, Jesus Christ?!?" "Nah" Moses replied "He thinks he's Tiger Woods."

--Jayron32 03:45, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

That joke would not go over well, due to sensibilities of a religious nature that result in ruffled feathers. Bus stop (talk) 13:20, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

The punch line I heard on that one was, "He knows He's Jesus Christ. He thinks He's Tiger Woods!" ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:09, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

It might be "clean" in the sense of not being based on sex or toilet humour, but there is a risk of offending some Christians with blasphemy. Mitch Ames (talk) 06:06, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Not to mention Jews with Moses caddying for Jesus. DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 22:59, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Since you found the wealth of jokes (or would-be jokes) available on the Internet to be unsuitable to your boss's purpose, perhaps you could tell us a little more about the setting, audience, import and style of the organization's annual report. I don't want you to expose yourself, your boss or your group, but there are differences between a gaming industry convention, a police conference and an alliance of religious hospice volunteers. Will most of the audience be from one country or one culture, or are you seeking something that would appeal to a wide range of listeners? —— Shakescene (talk) 06:01, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Dilbert for May 8, 2008, might be a good one to put on the powerpoint and let everyone read. Dilbert is giving a presentation. He says, "I didn't have any accurate numbers, so I just made up this one... Studies have shown that accurate numbers aren't any more useful than the ones you make up." An unseen audience member (apparently the PHB) asks, "How many studies showed that?" Dilbert: "Eighty-seven". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:12, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

An old cross-cultural one from Asia that might not have reached your audience: “In America, it is common to open a speech with a joke, but in Japan, one begins by apologizing. So, in the interest of cultural diversity and inclusiveness, I’ll just apologize for not having a joke to tell.” DOR (HK) (talk) 06:34, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Why do bagpipe players traditionally march while playing? They're trying to get away from the terrible noise.

Why are violin players like police? Everybody's relieved when the case is closed.

What's the difference between a saxophone and a chain saw? Vibrato.

What's the scariest thing jungle drums can warn is coming? A bass solo.

What do you call somebody who hangs around with musicians but can't play an instrument? A drummer.

i'm in a musical mood i guessGzuckier (talk) 07:22, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

The violin one would especially be good since he's coming up after a bunch of other speakers. He can add, "Thankfully, the case will soon be closed."172.166.225.140 (talk) 12:12, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

He could probably avoid the old one about feeling like a mummy, "pressed for time". And this one might be a problem, but it's musical: The Far Side split into an upper and lower panel: "Welcome to Heaven... here's your harp" and "Welcome to Hell... here's your accordion"! ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:07, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

In these circumstances, I think it is usually best to tell a joke that somehow fits in with what the talk is about. If you are talking about a room full of experts in a particular field, tell a joke that only experts will get - it can be an excellent way of bonding. (eg. if they are mathematicians, you could go with "What's round, purple and commutes? An abelian grape!" [admittedly, most mathematicians have already heard that one, but that doesn't really matter].) --Tango (talk) 12:34, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

My suggestion would be to have a little subject-appropriate comic or striking image on each slide. Slides can usually be read in just a moment, so that would give listeners something to enjoy while the speaker drones on. --Sean 14:32, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

This is the perfect occasion to slip in my favourite joke of all time. Heard it on the radio once.

Son, about sevenish, is watching the evening cartoon with his father. After the cartoon come the daily evening news, then sports, then weather. Father and son are watching everything together. After the weather forecast an announcer on TV says 'Tonight's film will only be suitable for adults.' Son turns to father, asking: 'Dad, why will this movie be only for adults?' Father replies: 'You'll see in a moment.'

Additional information: on polish state TV we used to have a chindren's evening cartoon at 19.00, then evening news at 19.30 followed by sports and weather, and an evening movie at about 20.00. I believe it's like this even now on certain days, I am not sure though. --Ouro (blah blah) 20:22, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Hi there is NO worse openig than a joke that doesn't work. Audience embarrassed. Speaker's mind blown. Only if a natural hurourist AND experienced shoud it be tried. Punch in with a striking visual that links directly to the topic.Froggie34 (talk) 10:47, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Tell your boss the best way he can lighten the mood is by telling the audience his speech will not be accompanied by PowerPoint. <rant> My heart dies a little every time I see the accursed slides. And when somebody stands there and reads the bloody things to me, I just want to scream. Or stand up and shout "You know what, I learned to read in primary school and I'm quite good at it now." </rant> --Dweller (talk) 14:16, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

• In honour of this thread, I've created a simple stub at PowerPoint hell. Please do feel free to enhance it. --Dweller (talk) 14:27, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

I agree with the people above, the best joke for the occasion is going to be relevant to the audience at hand. Unless he makes one about presentations in general or something, it's hard to see how some randoms on the internet can tell you a good one. Sticking a random joke in there is probably going to seem weird. I don't suppose you could give us more information about what his speech is going to be about? For an example of a speech that (effortlessly) blends humour relevant to the topic of the presentation, I'd recommend watching this TED talk. TastyCakes (talk) 14:44, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Most people are not comedians, for a reason. Don't try this at home (or a presentation). Imagine Reason (talk) 17:49, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Q. 'What did the Astronaut say when he la...nded on the moon?' A. "The Moon is Excellent!"

Question: Why did the eskimo throw coins at the seal? Answer: He thought it was a beggar!

Question.: What do you call a dog wearing a policeman's hat? Answer: PC Dog-hat

Q. Why did Superman wear his pants outside his trousers? A. Because he was a dirty pervert!!!

Q) Why did the alien eat the policeman's hat? A) He thought it was a meal!

Q)How many moths does it take to change a lightbulb? A) Moths can't do that.

Hands of gorse, heart of steel (talk) 19:26, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Buying a metallic thermos flask?

i want to buy a thermos flask which does not have an external cover like this http://atzler.info/uploads/pics/tauchsieder.jpg , but would love to own a metallic thing like this- http://theinkround.com/assets/images/db_images/db_Thermos_Flask_216x2162.jpg, largely because of its sleek looks and reduced diameter and probably it is more robust. I intend to carry it in the public transport inside a rucksack everyday. From what I remember from school studies, thermoflask is designed to reduce exchange of heat with the environment and as a result warm liquid stays warm longer or cold liquid stays cold than when left outside. I dont understand why they make metallic flasks these days, since metal would conduct heat away or inside the flask more easily. Are metallic flasks are insular and as leakproof as normal flasks? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.220.46.25 (talk) 09:01, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

The metal outer body of the flask encloses 2 concentric silvered glass bottles, which have a vacuum between them. It's this vacuum flask assembly that keeps the contents insulated from the outside world. You might see the page on thermos flask for further information. --Phil Holmes (talk) 10:18, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

John Lewis sells metal thermos flasks [4]£7.20 - £10.80. I've had one for 18 months with no problems. Richard Avery (talk) 17:40, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Most houseware and hardware stores sell stainless steel thermoses. They leak heat a little more than glass ones do, but they still work pretty well. They don't break, but they can dent if you drop them. I would expect if one dents deeply enough that the inner and outer shell come in contact with each other, they lose their insulating property. But I haven't seen this happen myself. 69.228.171.150 (talk) 23:10, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Best buy hiring

How long does it take after you complete the application for you to be accepted or denied a job? And is being a cashier/ customer service rep fun?Accdude92 (talk) (sign) 13:13, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

With many such businesses, it depends whether they are actively hiring or if you are going into a queue for when they start hiring (that is, they might have a fixed number of employees, but in a store that large, it probably fluctuates regularly, so they are probably always keeping a list of potential hires "on file"). But you should feel free to call them in a week to pursue it if you haven't heard from them (just be polite—"I submitted my application last week, and was just curious to find out if anything had been decided on yet?"). That's not considered a bad thing at all if you are respectable about it, and they will usually tell you if they are actively hiring, if they'll hold it for a month, etc. With such big corporate jobs, they usually have to run your application by a central office, which takes maybe a week.

As for fun—as with many jobs, it depends on what you find "fun", but working with people is about as fun as you make it. I have worked as a cashier elsewhere and found it more or less enjoyable. You will occasionally get really cranky/weird people (the sorts of people who are willing to give up 20 minutes of their time to haggle for a 50-cent discount they feel entitled to), but if you go into it with a good attitude, it can be a tolerable way to pass the time, and a fine entry-level job. You learn how to deal with people, and with money. The down-side to such retail jobs are that you are often being pushed to foist things upon the customer that they don't want or don't need (e.g. "sign up for our card"), and there are rewards/punishments for failing to meet quotas in that respect, and that is kind of soul-sucking (I don't know if Best Buy does that, but Barnes and Noble did when I worked there). --Mr.98 (talk) 13:30, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

In my experience, there is at least one interview required prior to any job offer. If/when the manager asks what you would do if you discovered another employee stealing from Best Buy, the only acceptable answer is that you'd inform a manager. There is also a drug test required, although I can't recall if that was prior to the job offer or not. --LarryMac | Talk 13:37, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

When I worked for a different corporate retail-type store, they made me take some long, computer-based personality test that included the "would you inform on an employee" type questions mixed in with a lot of "are you a sociopath" type questions. It was very odd, especially considering how low-grade the job was (we weren't dealing in seriously valuable merchandise). The correct approach to all such tests is to answer in the way you'd assume the manager wants you to—not necessarily to answer honestly. Honesty is not valued in such an environment if it does not correspond with the expectations. (Honestly, my ability to care about theft by another employee—or anyone else—is directly correlated to whether they pay me enough and treat me well enough to have any loyalty to the business. But you can't say that and expect to get the job.) --Mr.98 (talk) 14:57, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

This sort of "personality test" is often a form of Psychometric test which can usually detect if the subject tries to give expected rather than true answers: the numerous apparently bizarre or irrelevant questions offer a cross-check on the more direct ones, and unless you're an expert in the technique there's no way you can second-guess them all well enough to fool it. Since being detected in giving dishonest answers is likely to eliminate you from consideration, it's advisable not to try to slant them. When competently used (not always the case), such tests can give a surprisingly detailed and accurate picture of your personality (and a good employer may give you a copy of the resulting analysis), allowing the company to decide how well suited you are to the job on offer: for example, a front-of-store salesperson needs to be good at personal interactions more than at patient record analysis, whereas the opposite may hold true for a back-room stock controller.

Applying psychometric testing properly requires specialised knowledge and training which do not come cheaply, so it tends to be used by larger organisations with sizeable HR departments, or by large employment agencies. When used by an employer, they're likely to be part of its standardized hiring procedures, which is why they may be applied to even apparently low-level jobs. That said, recruitment is usually a costly process anyway, while getting rid of someone who turns out to be unsuitable can be even more so, so it's cost effective to spend a little more to appoint the most appropriate candidates. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 10:57, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

what if the manager asked "what you would do if you discovered me stealing from Best Buy?"

see also How_to_Irritate_People#Job_Interview (since we don't have much on the monty python version)Gzuckier (talk) 16:48, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Smoke maker

Is it possible to home build something similar to the smoke generator that's inside some model train engines? How would I do it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.44.55.2 (talk) 19:17, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

This page describes several of the common model train smoke units; seems like it might be a good starting point for designing a unit of your own. At a minimum, you'd need a reservoir and a heat source; possibly a wick and some type of "smoke stack" type tube. --LarryMac | Talk 20:41, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll look into that. I remember that the old trains needed WD40 to make smoke, and that when I sprayed WD40 on a hot surface it made smoke too. In terms of danger, would this "smoke" be toxic?

There is also the subsequent OP who has devised a conventient smoke generator. As you both geolocate to London, you simply run a thin hose from their kitchen to your model train. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 21:27, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

What?

Yeah, should be pretty easy. if you're in Croydon, say, and he's in Barnet, you'd only need 30 miles of hose (plus some way to get it across the city without being run over). I'm guessing C.e.Z's comment was not to be taken too seriously. :) Grutness...wha? 07:10, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Eh? I don't understand, and how the hell do you know where I live? Look, I was just asking about smoke machines, forget it ok? I'll ask elsewhere. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.44.55.2 (talk) 10:00, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Please ignore the joke answers. Wikipedia tracks everyone's edits by username (if you have one) or IP address if you don't. There are tools to use your IP address (82.44.55.2) to find roughly where your internet connection is based, like this.

Sorry I don't know the answer to your train smoke question, but Larry's link might be useful, and someone else might reply later with an answer. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 10:43, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

IP tracking does not work in all countries - the IP is in UK, that's all you can find out with UK IP addresses - the track will just give the location of the ISP (I see plenty of web ads thinking I'm in Telford, where Enta.Net is located - 150 miles away)  Ronhjones  ^(Talk) 00:55, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

(outdent)Not sure what your specific application is, but you might also look into a "fountain mister" (just google that phrase), which is the type of unit used on small water fountains to make fog or mist. Not really something you can build at home, but it might fit your needs. --LarryMac | Talk 11:44, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Oven cleaner difficulties.

My housemates and I cleaned the oven with your standard oven cleaner, we left it and then forgot to clean it out, and then later turned on the over. Smoke and fumes ensued, so we changed our dinner plans and left to ventilate, when it was cool we tried to clean it out again, and again, and there is no visible oven cleaner in there anymore (it went pretty crusty) and now its stopped smoking after the oven was on some more, presumably its all burnt off and doesn't smell so noxious. But now I have the fear of using the oven, any way of making sure its all gone?

As a side, what kind of fumes would have come off that stuff? 188.220.144.215 (talk) 19:27, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Take a bucket and a sponge and just wipe the interior down. Dilution is a wonderful thing. Vranak (talk) 19:35, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, when I say we cleaned it out again and again I mean we did, scary fumes of doom I tells ye. 188.220.144.215 (talk) 19:37, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Does it have a self-cleaning feature? I would use that (it bakes the interior at some 900º over the course of three hours or so, which gets rid of everything). But other than that... if it isn't smoking anymore (and maybe you want to run it at a high temp for an hour or so just to make sure), then it's probably baked off. Can you tell us what specific cleaner it was? --Mr.98 (talk) 19:48, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

As Mr.98 said, it would be helpful if you specify precisely what brand of overcleaner you used, or even just take a look at the over cleaner bottle or a similar one to find out precisely what the active ingredients are. The over cleaner I have has sodium hydroxide and diethylene glycol alkyl ether Nil Einne (talk) 21:20, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Sodium hydroxide, Oven Pride [5] to be precise. Its still smoking but I'm going to try just washing it out with clean water a bit.188.220.144.215 (talk) 16:08, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

October 23

Familial periodic paralysis or hypokalemic periodic paralysis

This question appears to be a request for medical advice. It is against our guidelines to provide medical advice. You might like to clarify your question. Thank you. Responses containing prescriptive information or medical advice should be removed and an explanatory note posted on the discussion page. If you feel a response has been removed in error, please discuss it before restoring it.

Nero Cover Designer

Is there any way to insert or import CD cover designs made by Nero Cover Designer into a blank Word document? The version installed in my PC is Nero 7. Thanks in advance! 117.194.226.193 (talk) 12:17, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Please don't post the same question on multiple reference desks. The computer desk (where this is already posted) is the appropriate place, and if somebody can answer your question, they will. Note at the top of the screen where it says that it may take several days for a response. --LarryMac | Talk 12:33, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

2001 Ford Windstar Remote

I just bought a used 2001 Ford Windstar and it did not come with a remote to unlock the door or anything. I know you can program an old remote to work on your van, but I'm not sure how. Can anyone tell me what I would need or how to program a remote that my buddy gave me from his old windstar?

Thanks!74.218.50.226 (talk) 15:49, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't know about reprogramming them, but couldn't a dealership help you out? I got a used volkswagen that only had one key/remote, I asked the dealership for another and they programmed (and I guess cut) it appropriately. TastyCakes (talk) 16:16, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

I would be really surprised if there was a way to do that...but if there is, it would be a gigantic security risk - so if it's possible at all, it'll take help from the dealership. Dealerships can program remotes that have never been used - but I kinda suspect it's a one-time thing. When I had a faulty computer replaced on my MINI Cooper'S a few years ago, they had to replace both remotes and the emergency key thingy to match the computer - they couldn't just reprogram the old keys. However, Ford and BMW may well do things differently - so you might get lucky. Replacement key-remotes are typically horribly expensive - so it's certainly worth asking. SteveBaker (talk) 01:28, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, not sure if I was clear, they give me a new key, not a reprogrammed one. And I don't believe they needed my old key to do it. TastyCakes (talk) 14:46, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

murder

bio of jennie jones —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.133.6.2 (talk) 16:43, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia doesn't appear to have any bio of a person by that name. Do you have any further questions we can answer?--Jayron32 16:57, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

We have several articles for either Jenny Jones or Jennifer Jones. After a quick glance, I didn't see any that had anything to do with murder but you're more than welcome to read the articles and come back here with any more questions you might have. Dismas|^(talk) 17:26, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Jenny Jones (presenter)#Controversy mentions murder - she presented a show which had two people on it, one of whom killed the other 3 days after the recording. That's the only connection I can find between murder and any name resembling "Jennie Jones". --Tango (talk) 17:29, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

(can't call it an edit conflict ... how about a "research conflict"?) Possibly related to the Scott Amedure case. --LarryMac | Talk 17:46, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

[Lots of unnecessary and inappropriate discussion removed]

What's the Wikipedia category with the most words?

For instance, the article on the Northern Railway of Canada has the category 'Predecessors of the Grand Trunk Railway,' six words. 71.161.59.133 (talk) 21:55, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't know, but you could scan the full alphabetic list at Special:Categories. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:15, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

• The longest one that I know of is Category:École supérieure de physique et de chimie industrielles de la ville de Paris, but I didn't do a complete search. --M@rēino 00:49, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

These seem to be the longest at 18 words (determined by counting spaces):

• Category:Battles of the Joint Operations Against New Madrid, Island No. 10, and Memphis of the American Civil War
• Category:Recipients of the Commemorative Medal of the Royal State Visits to the United States of America and Europe
• Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of V A N D A L I Z E R 1 2 3 6

-- BenRG (talk) 13:29, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

October 24

railroad conductor hats

what is the history of the railroad conductors hats? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Richrascal (talk • contribs) 02:17, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Which railroad, which country??? This site might help.Popcorn II (talk) 07:52, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Do you mean this [6] sort of thing from the Santa Fe. It looks like it was copied from a military design to add some authority to the uniform and its wearer. Caesar's Daddy (talk) 09:27, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

MLM !!

Are the multi level marketing options really a viable thing to do and the incentives that they promise are delivered as one of my friends suggested me to do. Can this be taken as a sustained way of survival/earning..anybody associated with this ? please advise Seekhle (talk) 08:55, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

I think most MLMs have had aspersions cast on them in some way or another. My only experience was a friend that sold knives for Vector Marketing, he made some money, but it doesn't work out as lucrative as they might lead you to believe. He also had to push knives on his friends and family, which some people might not be comfortable with. Amway has had many detractors over the years, this article gives some information about them. I'd suggest you go search google for stories and opinions on any MLM you're considering. TastyCakes (talk) 14:44, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

I expect that it would not be comfortable having someone push a knife onto you either! Mitch Ames (talk) 00:30, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Many websites quote the story that in the US, the FTC requires Amway to label their products with something like: "54% of Amway recruits make nothing and the rest earn on average $65 a month.". Most Amway products are ultimately consumed by their sales recruits. SteveBaker (talk) 18:06, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

As for whether it's viable or not, it very much depends on the individual. I have met some people who have become very rich through MLM schemes, never have to work again, and will have loads of money pouring in for the rest of their lives without raising a finger. And I've met many people who made basically nothing, became very disillusioned, and got out. -- JackofOz (talk) 20:02, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

While there's obviously some dependence on the invididual, I disagree that it depends 'very much'. While all business depend somewhat on, for lack of a better word 'luck'/'random chance' (or things beyond the control of an invidual that are almsot impossible to predict) with MLM takes this to more of an extreme. The truth is the only way you can be resonably sure you'll be successful with MLM is if you have the skill set, knowledge etc necessary to actually set up an MLM scheme where you can fool suckers into making you rich (i.e. as with many get rich scheme kind of things the only way it works is if you're the one who starts it). Otherwise you're very likely going to get very little for the effort you put in unless you're very 'lucky'. This is an important thing because if you present the idea it depends on the individual, you lead people to believe they just have to work harder and smarter then the average person and if they stick with it, then they have a resonable chance of success (or that the reason most people don't success is they don't apply themselve enough and/or aren't smart enough and/or give up too fast), which is not the case for most MLM schemes. Starting a business is never easy and always risky but despite what MLM proponents want people to believe, MLM is actually quite different from an average business and not in a good way and no you're not likely to make money even if you're 'better' then the other people involved (yes I appreciate this is some sort of Christian site) [7] Nil Einne (talk) 21:01, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Anyone who sets up a business on the basis of "fooling suckers into making you rich" is bound to fail, sooner or later. What goes around, and all that. There has to be something in it for the other people; at least some reasonable prospect that if you follow the instructions - all of them - for long enough, you stand a chance of being as successful as the guy ahead of you, or however you define your own success. Many people don't follow all the instructions, or don't persist, or have unrealistic expectations at the start (such as becoming millionaires after 12 months), or are just not prepared to pay the price asked of them in terms of the work required. And many MLM schemes are not set up in a way that gives people lower than the top guy much of a chance to begin with. -- JackofOz (talk) 21:28, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Multi-level marketing is a barely legal version of a pyramid scheme. Do not waste your time on it, it is a scam. You will be buying a lot of stuff (and hence making money for the people you buy it off) that you will find difficult to pass on. Think of something else - like selling things on eBay, for example. 89.242.151.212 (talk) 22:04, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

The only way MLM is a viable way to make a living is to start one, and manage to convince people to join (sadly, too easy.) Seriously this is a scam - don't do it! Look, the reason why these sorts of things exist and will continue to exist is because someone decided to make a living by coning money from other people. From the early pyramid scheme, to the dirt cheap top of the line stereo scam, to Nigerian e-mail scam, to the latest "reverse funnel system" (which have a long time running ad up on facebook. I think that ad is still around last month.), they are all scams. And there is no denying the fact that yeah, some people definitely got filthy rich out of all this, but only for the guy at the top. They will take every effort to make the scam look tempting, authentic, respectable, and legitimate. Don't do it Royor (talk) 05:50, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Well i m not sure what u are taking about but by the whole conversation i can make out something and wpuld like to suggest. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.228.59.66 (talk) 16:36, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

I have a collegue working with me who also does this work with Oriflame (cosmetics products). He is gaining a lot of profit doing this work of selling its products and as more as he gets to sell the things, he gets more and more profit and benifits from the company, he is also suppose to be a manager soon as he has served his target and i just heard his manager has got a Honda City car by the company and she is only working for them now i mean to say that this is her sole earning right now and she earns aprox 2,00,000 a month, and her manager is getting more than that and last person i know from there group who is the manager of all these people and who started everything from the very initial stage is earning 40,000,000 per annum but i would say that all these people have already achived that level and there targets where in they do not have to work on anything else for thier living, but as my collegue is working with me and is also trying to achive his targets of Oriflame as he is still on the initial stage, if somebody has to try that then i would say work something else as well for your earning and then after few months or yrs u would see the results. If the company you are working for shuts down even then it would not effect u so much if u have some job in your hand.

But the main thing is that the product you are supporting should be renowned and reliable enough, as we know about Amway and Oriflame and many others.

I personnaly have not tried my hands on it as i know that i m very week in sales and selling anything is a impossible thing for me. As its rightly said by JackofOz|JackofOz that everybody can not do it, but who can do it can become very rich. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.228.59.66 (talk) 16:35, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Except for the rider in my last sentence. The scheme itself has to be designed to actually enable newcomers to profit handsomely; a lot of them are not. -- JackofOz (talk) 19:45, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Note that there are two ways to make money off an MLM scheme:

1) By selling the product(s). If the product is actually a good one and worth what they are asking for it, then this can be a legit source of revenue.

2) By recruiting others and getting a portion of their fees for joining. This is not a net source of income for the organization, as every penny made by one person in the organization is lost by someone else, so it's a break-even proposition at best, and even worse when the effect of taxes is considered.

So, the only way for everyone to have a fair chance at making money is the first scenario. If, on the other hand, they sell an inferior, over-priced product, then only the first few people to join, at the "top" of the pyramid, will benefit, and the vast majority will lose money. StuRat (talk) 22:49, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

You would be more likely to make more money by just buying some product(s) in bulk at wholesale prices, and selling them yourself at a retail price, and not wasting your time and money on MLM. The answer to the OPs questions are "No". 89.240.47.104 (talk) 00:07, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

How is the information for the nutrition facts label determined?

In a US context, how is the information for the nutrition facts label determined? How is its accuracy determined? How do you figure out, for example, how many calories are in a given quantity of food? --Mr.98 (talk) 13:50, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

One way of measuring food energy is by using a calorimeter. However, this tends to overestimate the calorific value for humans (since not all the energy is extracted during digestion). Therefore adjusted values have been calculated for many constituents of foods. The makers of the labels consult charts that list these values. Rockpocket 15:47, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

So they are calculated by ingredients? That's what I'm interested in knowing—if they just add up known values for ingredients or whether they calculate it from scratch for the whole thing. I would assume the former but am curious. Does the FDA double-check? That is, what's to stop someone from being misleading, or just wrong? --Mr.98 (talk) 18:53, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

In the US, there are various options for calculating calorific content, but - yes - all are applied to the amount of food components (e.g., fat, carbohydrate, protein, or ingredients with specific food factors) actually present in the food. You can use the so-called "Atwater method" (Energy Value of Foods--Basis and Derivation, by A. L. Merrill and B. K. Watt, United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) Handbook No. 74.). You can assign the general factors of 4, 4, and 9 calories per gram for protein, total carbohydrate, and total fat, respectively. You can use tabulated data for particular ingredients approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). Or you can Use bomb calorimetry data subtracting 1.25 calories per gram protein to correct for incomplete digestibility. All are permitted by the US government. Rockpocket 19:14, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Question

The continent of Africa is the birthplace of humanity, right? B-Machine (talk) 14:35, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

See Recent African origin of modern humans vs. Multiregional origin of modern humans. Most scientists subscribe to the former hypothesis. Rockpocket 15:39, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

So, Africa is the birthplace of humanity. Cool. B-Machine (talk) 15:47, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, we're reasonably certain that is so, because that matches our understanding of how genes and evolution works generally. It would be pretty impossible for two populations of the same species which were geographically isolated to simultaneously evolve into the same second species, as the second theory maintains (multiple populations of Homo erectus simultaneously and independently evolving into Homo sapiens). Still, there are a few reasonable points made in the second theory, so while we are fairly certain that humanity evolved once in Africa and then spread out, science is always open to changing its understanding of events based on new evidence, which is why the second theory is not dismissed entirely. --Jayron32 05:40, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

psychic detectives

I have seen the manny letters debunking this ability. My question is, how do you explain the TV programs on Sky3 of that name which purport to show many US cases where the police have been helped - often in a spectacular way. Are they fiction, as they involve apparently actual police officers? Donhin (talk) 17:02, 24 October 2009 (UTC)donhin

That stuff is put out because people like to watch it, just like ET come home or free Willy or Toy Story or the X files or the many soaps that go on year after year. People watching means ads sold and money to Sky. That's the bottom line, not an impulse to educate and inform. Dmcq (talk) 17:08, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Even so, you never want to get a fortune cookie that reads, "A psychic will lead detectives to your grave." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:59, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

To be perfectly honest - that really depends on whether you believe in fortune cookies. People who do, probably already believe in psychic detectives. I once did lunch at a chinese restaurant with someone who believed in all that crap - she got a completely empty fortune cookie (ie, no fortune inside!) and totally freaked out that it was predicting that she had "no future". I tried to claim that I'd accidentally picked up the wrong cookie and that one was intended for me...but it didn't seem to help much. :-) SteveBaker (talk) 22:47, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

The obvious question to ask them would be, "So how come you didn't drop dead on the spot?" That might turn the lightbulb on. Or, it might freak them out even more. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:28, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

The police have to deal with lots of cranks claiming special knowledge. If their predictions are sufficiently general, then at least some of them will turn out to be correct, and these are the ones that are remembered. There are two other logical explanations: some "psychic detectives" might be people who have some connection with the criminal, but don't want to reveal their source; some might just be good detectives who can put themselves in the position of the criminals and can imagine what they would do. Evidence for some supernatural ability is not statistically significant. Dbfirs 18:02, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

The trouble with TV shows is that they feed you exactly what they want you to see. So if you see something that sparks even the slightest bit of skepticism, it's probably a load of phooey. They just drag you along in doubt. If they ever made any serious attempt to get to the bottom of some mystery, well their show would be over in two minutes flat. Vranak (talk) 20:00, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

(EC) I don't know about that particular show. But for example with Sensing Murder#Criticism and developments, as discussed there and in the references and other sites, e.g. [8] [9] [10] [11] neither the NZ version, nor the Australian version nor the Swedish version have provided information leading to cases being solved. I'm extremely sure it's the same for the Danish, Norwegian and US version too but haven't seen that specific claim made so won't say tha definitely. The dubious methods are partially discussed in the article sources and the sources I provided Nil Einne (talk) 20:44, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

(EC) The psychics lie, the producers lie, and sometimes the odd rare cop lies. People love to lie. Psychics are also really good at pointing out the painfully obvious or the statistically likely (for instance, that a child victim was buried with stuffed toys - almost all are - or that the perpetrator was male) and making it seem that this would be absolutely impossible if they didn't have psychic powers. Remember too that if a psychic makes 1,000 predictions and one comes true, that's the only one you'll ever hear about - AND it's very likely that every prediction the psychic made had about a one in 1,000 chance of coming true. --NellieBly (talk) 00:20, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Also, many people with alleged psychic abilities are actually experts on reading people, and use this to scam people. For example, a police officer may take a "psychic" to a crime scene and ask them where the body might be buried. Meanwhile, the cop might furtively glance at some recently disturbed ground they had noticed earlier. The "psychic" notices this, then leads them right to the spot, where they dig up the body. This makes the "psychic" look like she performed a miracle, when in reality she just picked up on what the cop had already figured out. StuRat (talk) 22:37, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

You've described the basic premise for the TV series Psych, a detective who pretends to be psychic but is actually just a really good observer. As Yogi Berra said... well, I'm sure you know that one. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:44, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm not familiar with the TV shows in question, but shows of this nature are often wildly fictionalized. Usually they take a real case and then wildly exaggerate it. Probably they start by getting the psychic's side of the story. (These sorts of psychics are usually very good at self-promotion.) And then they'll "punch up" any parts of the story that are a bit slow. Bring in actors to play the parts of the people involved. Dramatize the parts that no one knows about, etc. They often wind up with something that is simply not recognizable as the original event, but they can still claim it's "based on a true story". APL (talk) 15:57, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

October 25

Twin Beech Airplane

Can a Twin Beech Airplane (model 18) be flown safely with just one pilot? I know that it has controls for a crew of two, but if I were to buy a Twin Beech for myself and my family can it be safely flown with just one pilot?

Wobrien419 (talk) 00:18, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Wobrien, please do not make your decision whether to purchase and operate a light aircraft for yourself and your family based on what you learn at Wikipedia's reference desk. Wikipedia cannot give medical advice, and one might doubt whether it's qualified to give advice on such a potentially dangerous activity as flying a light aircraft. This isn't a criticism of Wikipedia. --Dpr

Yes, it can. A lot of the jobs that Twin Beeches were used for wouldn't have been economically feasible with two pilots - crop dusting, mosquito dusting, etc. As long as the pilot has a multi-engine rating, there's no problem.

There used to be a Twin Beech up in Yellowknife (edit: and it was flown solo all the time). It was a coin flip as to whether it or the Beaver (CF-WWV, aka World War Five) made more noise. When they both started up at the same time you could hear it from the other end of town. --NellieBly (talk) 00:35, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Have you flown multiengines before? Because if not, I'd recommend really doing your homework on this plane, and, of course, getting a multiengine rating. Falconus^{p t c} 02:46, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

I just looked up what the Twin Beech model 18 actually is, and I have to say that that does look like it would be fun to fly (just wish I was qualified to fly it) :-). Falconus^{p t c} 02:50, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

You're gonna want to have deep pockets for fuelling and maintaining those twin radials, though. Not to mention the high maintance cost/times that come with an airframe of that age and size. FiggyBee (talk) 01:31, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

I agree - it's perfectly safe to fly with a single pilot - no less safe than flying a single-engined plane single-handed. If you haven't flown twins before, you need that twin engine rating - and if you have one but haven't flown twins in a while, you REALLY need to get an instructor to run you through the basics for an hour. Handling what happens when one engine dies, and getting a feel for RPM matching is something you need to be taught properly and to be very 'current' on. Obviously, it's a bigger, heavier plane - so more fuel is needed. Obviously, if you have two engines instead of one - with twice the number of engine instruments, etc, so it's gonna be more expensive to maintain. It's probably safer to fly overall - I'd much rather be stuck with one engine running in a twin than dead-stick with a single engine plane. You can also carry more weight in a plane like this - which might make it more comfortable for flying with your family. As with any used plane - you are taking on potentially massive maintenance bills if the thing isn't in A1 condition - so get the heck inspected out of it before you sign on the dotted line. How many hours of engine and airframe life does it have? SteveBaker (talk) 21:47, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Eddy Arnold

Back years ago, I remember hearing Eddy Arnold sing Dixie and it was the best yet. I have looked and looked and I can not find a recording anywhere of it. Does any one know where I can get a copy of this song "dixie" by Eddy Arnold?

Please send me a reply to my email [contact information removed] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.236.133.184 (talk) 00:30, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Hi there. RefDesk replies are made here, not by email. Email addresses left here are removed because this page is highly visible on the internet and spammers are likely to collect and use addresses to send unwanted emails.

This page is a full LP discography of Eddy Arnold, complete with track listings, and this one lists all his singles. I can't find Dixie anywhere on either, so it looks likely that Arnold did not release a commercial recording of that song, even if it featured in his live repertoire. Even so it is conceivable that a recording does exist, perhaps a bootleg or a video of a TV appearance. I would suggest you try asking on specialist forums or fansites, where someone may be able to help you track a version down if it exists. Karenjc 16:24, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Skin color

I know Mexicans and Latinos' skin is dark because of interbreeding with native populations during colonization. But then how come Spaniards' skin is sort of dark too? They couldn't have interbred that much with their colonies, could theu? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.228.195.8 (talk) 02:38, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Please sign your posts. Spaniards are not dark because of mixing with their Latin American Colonies. They are dark because of their proximity to Africa, and mixing with the Moors (as in Mauritania and Morocco), who were a dark skinned Berber people of northern Africa. Early in Spanish history, the Moors fought a war with the Visigoths, who were Germanic and therefore pale. The expression "blue blood" comes from this period, when a Spanish noble was said to have bared his pale white arm to show the pure "blue blood" (i.e., venous blood) which lay underneath, untainted by the dark-skinned Moors, to prove his nobility. Eventually, Spain was retaken for the Christian world (Reconquista). By that time, however, the Moors and European Spanish had all but mixed, leading to the expression "dark as a Spaniard". Though Spaniards are not as dark as Latin Americans, some of them still have some colour to their skin. Intelligentsium^review 02:46, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Don't post nonsense. Moors in Spain where a tiny population compared to the millions of mostly Celtic and Iberian (with a little Visigoth (nordic)) descent living there. Also during the Reconquista massive repopulation took place, so that the Andalusi population in conquered places was systematically sold as slaves and their cities occupied by Christians from northern Hispania. The moriscos (people of Muslim descent still living in Spain after the Reconquista) were expelled in 1609. And finally, many Berbers look almost or completely European so I doubt that one could easily tell whether someone has a Berber ancestor or not just by their looks.

In my opinion, Spaniards are "sort of dark" because the Iberians may have been somewhat swarthy; the Celts, despite common stereotypes, not that pale — just look at the French, who are almost 100% of Celtic (Gaulish) descent — and the pale Visigoths were too few. But mainly because almost all Spain is hot, so people there are tanned throughout the year (and heavily tanned in summer, especially if they go to the beach as most people there do).

Have a look at our article White people, Physical Appearance->Light skin section. --Belchman (talk) 19:09, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Please don't accuse others of posting nonsense just because you disagree. According to our article on the Moors, one expert said "Berbers were about 900,000 and the Arabs about 90,000 in Iberia", compared to a total population of about 8 million. Thus, they were around 1/8th the total population, and stayed for centuries (and some stayed permanently). This is an ample proportion and time to effect the total gene pool, and specifically those in the South. StuRat (talk) 22:22, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Looks like you completely ignored what I said above about repopulation (which was as important as conquest during the so-called Reconquista) and the expulsion of the moriscos, but I guess that some people just can't learn. Some people think that the native Iberians may have had some link with northern African Berbers, but that's another story. --Belchman (talk) 13:51, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

And I said that he posted nonsense because he answered by guessing, and in this particular case was simply wrong. Also, in my own personal opinion, the numbers given by Aline Angoustures (whose article in the French Wikipedia was removed due to lack of notability and doesn't have an article in ours) look somewhat inflated if you take into account that the Arab rulers needed almost 800 years to completely Arabize the former kingdom of Granada despite the fact that the native Hispano-Roman-Visigoth people more or less welcomed the Islamic invasion. And finally, check this too: Limpieza de sangre. --Belchman (talk) 14:10, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

By the way, this probably was more appropriate for the Humanities section of the Reference Desk, but then again, if you had known why, you need not have asked this question! Intelligentsium^review 02:48, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Alternatively, from a more biological POV, skin tone is strongly correlated with latitude. This is largely due to the natural selection for photo-protective, darker skin in areas the have high levels sun exposure. If you have every been to Spain, you would know that it is pretty warm there, with plenty of sunlight. Combine that with, as Intelligentsium notes, their rich history of contact with African ethnicities and you have a population with darker skin tone. Rockpocket 05:44, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Are Spaniards really dark-skinned? Maybe you're of northern European descent and just really pasty and so white that you're pink. Maybe that's just my Portugueseness talking. --Nricardo (talk) 16:59, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, a hundred years ago there was racial prejudice (from some Northern Europeans) against Spaniards because of their dark skin. Dbfirs 17:26, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, we have an article somewhere that states that sometime in the United States the Irish, the Germans, the Italians, the Spanish, the Greeks and I don't know who else weren't considered "white", so I guess that often it has more to do with prejudice against massive migration rather than skin color. --Belchman (talk) 19:17, 25 October 2009 (UTC) --Belchman (talk) 19:17, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

"White" as in Caucasian. That includes those with the darker-skinner Mediterrean look. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:30, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Coffee filter re-usage

Is it recommended or even sanitary to re-use the day before coffee grounds and disposable coffee filter?janiceJanice alderman (talk) 04:46, 25 October 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Janice alderman (talk • contribs) 04:44, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Grounds that have been sitting wet in an enclosed container for a day? Uhhhggg. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 10:45, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Those are grounds for divorce. Bus stop (talk) 10:50, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Mold will grow on coffee grounds left for several days in a drip coffee maker.–RHolton≡– 12:06, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Not recommended. Just buy the filters in bulk! They are quite cheap when purchased that way. --Mr.98 (talk) 14:55, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Better yet, buy reusable cloth filters (sometimes branded "coffee socks" or "coffee sleeves"). They need to be washed between uses. They're much more environmentally friendly than disposable filters. I don't recommend reusing the grounds if you want decent coffee. Compost the used grounds. Marco polo (talk) 15:43, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't know about you guys, but coffee grounds that have been left for a while tend to smell pretty unpleasant. Not something that recommends re-use. Vranak (talk) 16:53, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm sometimes reusing the filters to boil an egg. Just put the egg into the filter and let the machine run hot water over it. Depending on your preferences, the amount of water (and of old coffee grounds) gives you fine control over how thoroughly the egg is boiled. --95.223.207.169 (talk) 17:19, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

It isn't sanitary. It may take two or three days for visible mold to be detectable, but in 24 hours there'll be enough mold and bacteria and the like to be unsafe and unpleasantly bad-smelling. Your big danger is when you go to throw it out - that's when mold spores will end up in the air and when you'll breathe them in. And all the supposed "care" in the world - throwing them out quickly, keeping your arms extended so it doesn't reach your face - won't prevent the spread of airborne molds and bacteria - as long as it's sitting there on your counter, it's releasing these things into the air.

Saving a few pennies only to make yourself sick or have your kitchen smell awful (and make you look like a slob to anyone who happens to show up) is a prime example of false economy. If you can't afford to use a brand new filter and brand new grounds every single day, don't make coffee. It's not an essential. --NellieBly (talk) 17:44, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Clearly, you're getting a solid "No" from the crew. What's not clear is why you are asking.

• Scenatio 1: You're 'thrifty' and want to stretch what you've got as far as it will go. Answer (as per everyone else): buy new suppies.
• Scenario 2: You've just awakened, r-e-a-l-l-y need your java fix, but you're out of filters. Should you re-use? Answer: No. Substitute a section of paper towel for now, then after breakfast go buy filters.
• Scenario 3: You're out of coffee, but have yesterday's used grinds left over and are considering reusing them. Should you? Answer: Unless you feel you have a personal need to experience the questionable flavor of day-old coffee, I strongly recommend zipping out and getting some new. B00P (talk) 06:56, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Seems like 3M should get into the re-usable filters business, and see if anyone gets the subliminal joke. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:02, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

pyramid

How many sides does a pyramid have?Burildav (talk) 06:10, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

See pyramid. If you're referring to the Egyptian pyramids, they had/have four sides. Dismas|^(talk) 06:37, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

No they don't, they have five sides. Four triangular sides and a square base. A pyramid with four sides is called a tetrahedron, and are generally not used for when you're actually building a pyramid. Pyramids that you build have five sides. 83.250.228.169 (talk) 14:15, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

The Egyptian pyramids do have five faces, one of which is the base. The term side in geometry typically refers to an edge, and this is typically used of two-dimensional polygons. —Dromioofephesus (talk) 14:43, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Ha! This reminds me of a problem in a Hell's Kitchen article that referenced an episode in season 6. Ramsey set up a craps table and the contestants were throwing dice to determine which letter they had to use to begin the name of the next ingredient they were to add to a dish. The article, as most people would, stated that "they rolled the die and picked a food starting with the letter that it landed on." In reality, though, they didn't use the letter that the die landed on, but rather, the letter opposite the letter that the die landed on. Colloquially, though, we say that dice landed on snake-eyes when double ones are shown, not when boxcars (double sixes)are shown, and the dice have landed on (i.e. are actually in contact with the playing surface with) their number-1 surfaces. DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 16:00, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Is this not excessively nitpicky? You can't pick up the Giza pyramids to inspect each face. They're not like those little wooden models you get in math class. Adam Bishop (talk) 17:00, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

We can be precise and also maintain mathematical accuracy by saying the square-base pyramids have four sloping triangular faces. They also have four sloping edges. Only the four horizontal edges round the base should be described as sides. Dbfirs 17:18, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

So a true pyramid would have 5 faces and 8 edges or "sides" as you're calling them. The catch with the Egyptian pyramids, if I recall correctly, is that they have an underground component, so if you could magically pick one up, I don't think its bottom is an actual square. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:23, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Right, and also the sides are not currently flat, they are more like steps, so it is accurate to say they have thousands of faces? (Or that they are not mathematically pyramidal at all?) Adam Bishop (talk) 02:37, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

They were once covered with limestone to make them reasonbly flat. But mathematically speaking, there is no such thing as a "perfect" geometric figure in the real world anyway. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:52, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Okay I'll bite. How many sides does a pyramid have? Cuddlyable3 (talk) 19:31, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Always with the jokes. Every damn thread. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.44.55.2 (talk) 19:36, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

At least he didn't ask how many sides a quadrilateral has. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:40, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Because that's easy. It has two, an inside and and outside. I suspect that is true of pyramids too.Cuddlyable3 (talk) 21:29, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

And the boy gets a cigar! :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:00, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

*facepalms* —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.44.55.2 (talk) 23:11, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Yea! Here we go again, over-complicating an otherwise simple question with semantics and nit-pickery...

Who will be the first to make a "nose-pickery" joke? Let's watch... Dismas|^(talk) 23:52, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Maybe you could go ask User:NoseNuggets. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:52, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

The Wikipedia article Pyramid says "The base of a pyramid can be trilateral, quadrilateral, or any polygon shape, meaning that a pyramid has at least four faces (base plus at least three triangular faces)." (my emphasis) The OP said nothing about Egypt. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 19:58, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

The root cause of the difficulty of answering this question simply is that the word "sides" doesn't generally apply to polyhedra (3D objects) - only 2D objects like triangles, squares and so on. In 3D we generally talk about "faces", "edges" and "vertices". We can (I hope) all agree that a square pyramid (of the Egyptian variety) has 5 faces, 8 edges and 5 vertices. But you can also have pyramids with bases that have more than 4 sides - and with pyramids with N-sided bases, you get N+1 faces, 2N edges and N+1 vertices. A three sided pyramid is more properly called a "tetrahedron" - and it has 4 faces, 6 edges and 4 vertices. You can call a tetrahedron a "pyramid" if you like - but it's kinda like calling a square a "rectangle" - not strictly incorrect - but just a bit confusing! SteveBaker (talk) 21:34, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Intercaste marriage

"what is intercaste marriage?" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.164.14.135 (talk) 09:04, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

It is marriage between people of different castes. Dismas|^(talk) 10:49, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

architecture website

can anyone give me a website where i can know all the latest news about architecture? i tried to search on google, but everyone of them seems to ask me of my "company" and qualifications. man! i'm just a 16-year old student!! i dont have any company. please tell me some student-friendly site!! thank you!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.50.131.129 (talk) 17:49, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

You may want to look at [[12]]. It seems to be fairly international and has sections on projects (plus pictures), books and jobs. There is also a newsletter service which allows students to log in. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 18:55, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

I want to make sure you used Google properly. Try following these steps:

1) Go to www.google.com.

2) Pick "News" at the top.

3) Type in "architecture" and hit enter.

This method gave me some decent results: [13]. StuRat (talk) 22:05, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

How come fair trade tea has got cheaper?

Me and my wife were just enjoying a nice cup of tea, and we were wondering about this little quandry. We've always bought fair trade tea since it became available, as we've got a deep concern for the wellfare of those poor exploited tea pickers. Lord, it brings a tear to my eye when I think of those poor ol' boys not getting anything from their tea picking whilst the plump westerners grow yet fatter. But I couldn't help noticing that the price of the old fair trade has dropped over the past few years. How can they drop the price of fairtrade tea whilst still paying their workers a decent wage? Many thanks in advance, Hands of gorse, heart of steel (talk) 19:19, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

The start-up expenses are likely recovered. --NellieBly (talk) 19:28, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

See the Retail pricing debate section of the Fair trade debate article. Retailers are just reducing their mark-up to be more competative. I read an economics paperback a few months ago (forgotten title) that said the amount of money per Fair-Trade coffee cup sent to the producers by a well-known coffee chain was minute, and that in the past the greater price of Fair Trade coffee was nearly all pocketed by the company and not sent to the producers, although that company was now selling Fair Trade and non-Fair Trade at the same price. Your retailer may now be doing the same - not out of altruism but because consumers may be less willing to pay the premium. Update: the book I read was The Undercover Economist by Tim Harford 89.243.197.90 (talk) 19:46, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm rather skeptical of any company claiming to be more fair, etc., unless they list concrete claims, like that they pay twice as much per pound as the average. If they made such a claim and it was exposed as a lie, then they would be liable for false advertising claims. However, if they don't make any specific claims, then they can never be held accountable and thus have no reason to do the right thing (assuming they are completely amoral, which is what I always do when businesses are concerned). StuRat (talk) 21:58, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

If the product has Fairtrade certification, then the claims are concrete. You can dispute whether the aims are correct or whether they are sufficiently well enforced, but the main point of the scheme is to have a single recognisable and consistent standard for many different products. The scheme guarantees a minimum price to producers, and will also pay a small premium above the market price, when this approaches the guaranteed minimum. This means that the price differential between fairtrade and non-fairtrade tea may be smaller when the market price is high, as the gap between the amount fairtrade and non-fairtrade manufacturers pay to growers is smaller (although, as the anon user above says, this may well only be a very small proportion of the store price). Warofdreams talk 23:21, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

The cost of a cup of tea / coffee is more than the cost of the raw-materials used to make it. It is that simple. That's why some places you can easily pay 50p (or your local currency) more for a coffee than another place even if they use the exact same coffee supplier. As a side point - because something is not 'fair trade certificated' does not mean it is not fairly traded (the above from Warofdreams is a good answer but cann kinda be read as if there is a 'fair trade' price and a 'non fair trade' price - reality is there are different 'grades' etc. so there will be many 'non fair trade' coffee beans available at a prices far in excess of that of Fair-trade). 194.221.133.226 (talk) 10:01, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

October 26

Life expectancy of Elizabeth II

What is the current most widely accepted estimate as to how much longer Queen Elizabeth II will live, and is it likely that the monarchy will continue after her death? Also, if the United Kingdom were to abolish the monarchy following her death, would it be able to continue in other Commonwealth countries, such as Canada or Australia?99.251.239.89 (talk) 00:43, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

The first two questions are entirely guesswork. Elizabeth is 83 years old, so in principle she could pass away at any time — but on the other hand is generally described as being in good health, so there's no reason why we should expect her demise. Prince Charles automatically succeeds to the throne upon Elizabeth's death (the throne doesn't remain vacant under Commonwealth law), so absent a Constitional amendment the monarchy will absolutely continue after Elizabeth.

The Statute of Westminster 1931 established common rules of succession for all of the Commonwealth realms; the Statute's provisions for succession remain law in all of the realms. In principle, if any realm (including the UK itself) chose to abandon the monarchy then the sovereignty and succession of the Crown in the other realms would be unaffected. (By long convention, none of the Commonwealth realms may change their order of succession without the unanimous consent of the others — but that doesn't bar the others from eliminating the monarchy from their legal systems by constitutional amendment.) TenOfAllTrades(talk) 01:28, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

The government's life tables for people in England suggest that an average 83-year-old will live to 90. But with the best medical care, health which is apparently generally good, and a history of longevity in her family, she could well live longer. There is no reason to expect anything other than the succession of a new monarch on her death; while her eldest son is not universally popular, he remains the heir presumptive, has indicated that he wishes to succeed, and is expected to do so. It's hard to imagine any government attempting to challenge that on the death of Elizabeth, and there's no strong movement to abolish the monarchy. Of course, were there to be an unpopular monarch, that might strengthen the case for the abolition of the monarchy at a future date. Warofdreams talk 01:35, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Charles is heir apparent. Only females are heiresses presumptive, as Elizabeth herself was, even though her parents had only had daughters. When there are only daughters of a monarch, the assumption is that there is always the possiblity, however remote, that a son could later be born, supplanting the claims of any daughter. But Charles was the first-born of four children, so he will never be removed from the head of the line of succession unless he converts to Roman Catholicism, or marries a Catholic, or dies before his mother. -- 202.142.129.66 (talk) 02:59, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Charles hasn't been that great an heir apparent. I'm pretty sure that Elizabeth's plan is to outlive him. PhGustaf (talk) 03:48, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

She might have that in mind, and is just stubborn enough to pull it off. To put a spin on an antique joke, the name of Charles' second son reminds me that Charles is both an heir apparent and an 'Arry parent. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:07, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

While you are right that Charles is heir apparent, men can be heir presumptive - the younger brother of a King without any children, for example. --Tango (talk) 12:58, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

It's worth noting that her mum lived to be over 100. Grutness...wha? 05:14, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes. The Queen Mum was born a year before Queen Victoria went to Valhalla, and lived a couple years past the Y2K problem - literally spanning the 20th Century. Yep, she saw a lot of changes in her time. And she was agin' every one of 'em. (Or I might have her confused with Titus Moody.) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:10, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Of course I'm against the monarchy. Just the same it's kind of fun to speculate about one aspect of it: Charles has apparently said that he will not be "King Charles", apparently because of some bad associations with that name, but IIRC his preference is "King George", which has much worse assonances for Americans.

His name is Charles Philip Arthur George. I think it's obvious which he should take. He should be King Arthur II. --Trovatore (talk) 05:25, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

I doubt that would go down to well. And though the Americans had problems with one earlier George, They didn't have that much problem with the most recent one, George VI If anything, it's Brits who have had complaints about a recent American ruler called George, but I digress :) Grutness...wha? 05:34, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

George is an honored name among British royalty. That's an interesting idea, that he might switch names upon becoming king - just as his grandfather George VI did, as he went by Albert ("Bertie"), but probably had tired of all the "Prince Albert in the can" jokes. William is another honored name but there hasn't been a King William for quite awhile now. Prince William seems an agreeable sort, so once he finally becomes king after his old man croaks, he might become known as William the Concurrer. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:06, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Actually, there's been a William more recently than there's been just about anything else. And Charlie's alright, imo. As for regnal names, "Charles" is off the table because of the Stuarts, "Albert" because Edward VII declared the name should be reserved for his father, and "Arthur" because of mythological associations (Incidentally, he would be Arthur, not Arthur II, since even if we accept Arthur as historical the numbering only counts from 1066). I'm not sure how British people would feel about a "King Philip", as that name has a long royal history in France and Spain, but not England. FiggyBee (talk) 11:35, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

For some reason, the idea of King William always reminds me of Weeties Mitch Ames (talk) 12:06, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

There was a debate here a while back about whether Queen Mary I's husband (King Phillip II of Spain), was a co-monarch (Phillip I of England) or merely her consort. If the former is true, and Charles adopts Phillip as his regnal name (which nobody has ever seriously suggested), he'd be Phillip II of the UK. -- JackofOz (talk) 14:11, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't know why you say Charles is "off the table", FiggyBee. Surely his parents were aware of the first 2 Charleses when they named him. It's only been of recent years that anything other than Charles III has been canvassed; Charles himself added fuel to the fire by stating somewhere that he was considering calling himself George VII, but not, afaik, because of any negative historical connotations about the name Charles. -- JackofOz (talk) 12:51, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

It is very common for a new monarch to choose a different regal name to their given name. His parents may have just thought Charles was a nice name and that he could choose a different one if he wasn't comfortable. --Tango (talk) 12:58, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

It's quite uncommon, actually. The first 5 Georges were all Georges; William IV was a William; Victoria was Alexandrina Victoria, but she was known as Victoria from an early age and she was never going to be Queen Alexandrina; Edward VIII was Edward (although he was known as David to his family); and Elizabeth II was Elizabeth. The only 2 historically recent exceptions were Edward VII, who was christened Albert Edward and chose his 2nd name; and George VI, who was christened Albert Frederick Arthur George and chose his 4th name. -- JackofOz (talk) 13:29, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

So, Edward VII was originally Albert Edward; Edward VIII was originally Edward Albert Christian George Andrew Patrick David; and George VI was originally Albert Frederick Arthur George. Maybe ER II and her mate were just sick and tired of all the Edwards and Alberts. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:50, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

The reference [14] for the relevant section in Charlie's Article suggests an avoidance both of the Stuarts and of Bonnie Prince Charlie. FiggyBee (talk) 16:18, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Prince Charles talks to plants. QED. SteveBaker (talk) 21:17, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

And I would guess that those plants hold up their end of the conversation well. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:39, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, Liz likely has another 10 to 15 yrs (her mommy nearly made it 102). Charles has longevity as well (mom in 83, dad is 88). As for male heir-presumptives around the world? yep they're common, they even include the monarch's oldest son (just ask Prince Charles of Sweden). GoodDay (talk) 22:53, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Could you explain that last comment? I've found Charles August, Crown Prince of Sweden who was adopted by a childless King - are you saying he was heir presumptive because the King could have had a natural child that would have taken precedence? I don't know how Swedish succession works, so that's entirely possible. It couldn't happen in the UK, though - adopted children aren't eligible to inherit the throne. --Tango (talk) 23:55, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

I think he's talking about Prince Carl Philip, Duke of Värmland, who was the heir for a little while after his birth, but then they changed the law on him to put his elder sister ahead of him. I don't know if that really counts. They can always change the law, right? Even to make Richard Rich king, if Thomas More was right. --Trovatore (talk) 00:37, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Double-spacing with typewriters?

Please don't "exploit for [humorous] purposes...[your questioner's] youth and inexperience", but I don't remember a time when typewriters were common. In the days before electric and electronic typewriters, was it possible to doublespace a typescript by any means other than hitting the [similar to "Enter" on a computer keyboard] key twice? Nyttend (talk) 02:56, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

By doublespace you mean a blank line between each line of type, yes? (It's been awhile for me also.) Yes, there was a setting on at least some typewriters that when you did the "return" (i.e. the carriage return lever on the left side of the carriage) that it would skip a line. P.S. That term lives on with the "CR" character in the ascii character set, even though there is no "carriage" on a computer keyboard as such. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:06, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

This article [15] while not showing it, points out that many typewriters had a "line space mechanism". It controlled how far the paper would advance upon performing the carriage return. Normally it would be 1 line. You could do 2 lines (doublespace) or 1 1/2 lines (one and a half space), and sometimes others. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:16, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Bugs, you'd better archive that web-page doublequickwise, because GeoCities ("the gorgeous palaces, the cloud-capped towers") will vanish into fairy dust ("into air, into thin air") in fewer than 24 hours, as Yahoo! shuts the whole enterprise down. User:ThaddeusB has unleashed WebCiteBot_2 to archive as many of those references in Wikipedia articles as possible, but talk page references won't be saved, and I don't know where the Ref. desk would fall (and the archiving may have been done before you gave your link, as he tries to save the references in other languages of Wikipedia). See http://www.geocities.com —— Shakescene (talk) 08:51, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

So I see. So all that site's content will disappear, eh? As could wikipedia at some point. That's the nature of the internet. Nothing lasts. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:56, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

FLASH!!! (3 bells) In the finest traditions of minitrue, I've rectified your link to one most kindly created by Thaddeus B (see User talk:ThaddeusB, passim). Of course that link will endure only so long as it's on http://www.webcitation.org and so long as WebCitation.org endures. —— Shakescene (talk) 04:14, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

I have used a several old typewriters. IIRC, there's a small lever somewhere on the carriage to adjust the paper advance from 0 to 2 lines in 1/2 line increments (see this image from a user manual). For the occasional doublespace in otherwise singlespaced text, it was easier to operate the carriage lever/carriage-return button twice. Astronaut (talk) 04:06, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

The metal lug between the roller handle and the start of the ruler scale is the line-space setting lever.

The image on the right is the top left-hand corner of a brother 3912 Electric Correction typewriter, circa 1984. You can see a little metal lug with the settings R, 1, 1½, 2. Those are for free-rolling, one line, one and a half lines, and two lines. free-rolling is similar to inserting text in a drawing software package at any height on the page ("grid off", if you like). God but this makes me feel old :) Grutness...wha? 05:27, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Definitely the most useful setting was for 1-1/2 line-spaces, even though it was probably the least-used, because while double-spacing by hitting Carriage Return twice was trivial (if tiresome to repeat over and over again), adjusting for spaces that weren't exact multiples of one was tedious. Footnotes, subscripts and accents (often added by hand) were a particular chore. You could hit Carriage Release and move the paper up or down a little for such purposes, but then returning to match the original line was difficult and rarely perfect. When writing copy for publication, I often triple-spaced or quadruple-spaced so that there was enough room to show whether a particular (usually handwritten) mark, edit or adjustment referred to the line above it or the one below it. —— Shakescene (talk) 06:29, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Line space mechanism

Here's another example, from my old typewriter. It had three settings, which I've drawn arrows to: 1, 1 1/2 (represented by that little line), and 2. It also had a release-bar to free-form the positioning of the paper. You're right that that kind of manipulation was a serious pain, to be avoided if at all possible. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:50, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

seems like something to be added to theh typewriter article. Gzuckier (talk) 07:37, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Feel free. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:57, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

An added point no-one's mentioned: When you turned the paper up by hand on a machine which didn't have a carriage return lever (e.g., using the round knob on the end of the platen in the first photo), you'd move it up two "clicks" to get a whole line space. This meant you could move it up half a line only if you wished, to add a superscript or subscript character. Grutness...wha? 13:18, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Automatic page advance? My those were advanced! My old one I had to move a pointer to the appropriate letter on a pad and then press another lever for each letter. You could change font by replacing a cylinder with the letters on :) To be serious though I couldn't see anything like that on wikipedia, sounds like another article waiting to be written. Dmcq (talk) 15:37, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Okay, so I just realised that there is no enter key on a typewriter...I remember playing with my parents' typewriter when I was little (insert a piece of scrap paper and type gibberish :-), but it's been long enough that I didn't remember that you had to hit the lever to go down a line. Thanks much for the input; I'd imagined that the answer to my question would be "no", and that the only way to do anything except hitting carriage return twice was to move the paper with your hands and hope that you had placed the paper in the right place. Sorry if there were any confusion at the beginning of this question: yes, I did mean "doublespace" as we think of it on a computer. Nyttend (talk) 00:42, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

The "enter" key is equivalent to "return", and I have a vague recollection that some computer keyboards (or maybe keypunch machines) called that key "return". And when you're typing certain kinds of text in a computer, "enter" essentially behaves like "return". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:00, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

So there really is this type of key on a typewriter? I looked at the photos at typewriter and didn't see one, and assumed that all typewriters had something like part #13 on the (not yet gone) Geocities diagram. Nyttend (talk) 02:34, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

No, I'm saying that some older keyboards had "return" in place of "enter". Now, it's possible some of the more recent electric typewriters had a "return key" of some kind. I don't know. But in the case of my old manual typewriter, the return "key" was that lever in the upper left. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:43, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, there were some electric typewriters that had this key. I'm pretty sure the IBM Selectric did. These were almost all in office or professional use, I think; they were a bit pricy to buy your kid for a book report on Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. I don't remember whether it was called Return or Enter. --Trovatore (talk) 02:45, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

My Brother electric typewriter (as pictured above) had a return key (not an "enter key"). Note that Mac computers tend to use "return" and "Enter" interchangeably (my iBook G4 has both words on its key, and the keyboard on my old iMac simply says "return"). Grutness...wha? 05:13, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Cheese and booze

On a silly TV show I saw (Spooks), they said that eating fatty cheese will help a person cope with being plied with drinks (that is, will help them stay relatively sober, compared to what they normally would be). This was not actually even evidenced by the characters in the episode (read: silly show), but I was curious whether there was any truth to this in real life? (No, not medical advice, I am not planning to eat a bunch of cheese, do shots, and go driving.) --98.217.71.237 (talk) 12:21, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

In general, the more you have in your stomach, the slower the alcohol will enter your system (maybe it's not necessarily the speed of absorption but someone will be along to correct me if I'm wrong). Breads are good for this as well. Dismas|^(talk) 12:44, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

It is well known that having a full stomach stops you getting drunk as quickly (students have been known to exploit to reverse - fasting before a night out so you won't have to spend as much on drinks!). Whether fat is better than other food, I really don't know. --Tango (talk) 13:06, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Any volunteers to test this phenomenon? :P - Jarry1250 ^{[ In the UK? Sign the petition! ]} 14:09, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Spooks is definitely one of those shows where they should've known when to call it a day. It's gone from being a quasi-realistic "gritty" drama where the characters did vaguely-intelligence-officer-like things, to a run-of-the-mill spy show where they spend three-quarters of their time running around with guns and gadgets, saving themselves, each other and/or the world every week by some ridiculous contrivance. Ahem. Anyway. Yes, the more you have to digest, the slower the alcohol will get into your system. FiggyBee (talk) 16:05, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Please cite sources on the reference desk — your last statement is that there is a linear relationship, which sounds doubtful. If it were true, you could stuff yourself to the gills and your shots of vodka would barely get you intoxicated. Comet Tuttle (talk) 16:48, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

That statement doesn't say its linear, just that it is monotonic (ie. more food always means slower absorption, regardless of the amounts of food and alcohol being compared) - that is probably true. --Tango (talk) 17:54, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

The focus is not on the amount of food, but the food being cheese. Fatty foods cause delayed emptying of the stomach. DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 23:38, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Charities that build roads

I was wondering if anyone had heard of charities that focus on road building. I would think that was an effective way of reducing vulnerability to famine and spurring economic development in some regions, but I've never heard of a charity explicitly created for that. Do Engineers Without Borders do that? Or are roads so expensive and require so much planning and government involvement that they depend on World Bank or IMF funds? Thanks a lot, TastyCakes (talk) 14:32, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

There are charities concerned with transportation in the developing world, but I can't find any that focus on building roads. Transaid do general development-related transport aid[16], but don't seem to do much road building. Make Roads Safe campaigns for road safety globally[17]. Possibly it's too expensive for charities to do. The UK's Department for International Development does fund road building[18] - recently committing $100m on a project in the DRC.--Lesleyhood (talk) 16:34, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Template to cite or reference TV news

Is there a way to cite or reference TV news reports. I'm referring to this [19] source in this [20] article, but also if I was just watching TV and there was a news report on, rather than it being a video on the news channel's website. As instructed (talk) 16:38, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

See the {{cite video}} template, which is documented at Wikipedia:Citation templates. For future reference, this Reference Desk doesn't specialize in questions about Wikipedia; the best source of answers for this type of question is Wikipedia:Help desk. Comet Tuttle (talk) 18:13, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

airlines adress in lagos nigeria

please i want to know the adress of royal airmaroc in lagos[nigeria] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.4.177.74 (talk) 16:43, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Have you looked in the Lagos telephone directory? Cuddlyable3 (talk) 16:53, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

According to their website, they don't have an office in Nigeria - there's one in Niger (Niamey), Cameroon (Douala), or Benin (Cotonu), or you could call their international enquiries number (which is on their website). Tevildo (talk) 19:23, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Research and Development

What is research and it's relevance to developmentAAN (talk) 17:14, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Research and development --LarryMac | Talk 17:53, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

4 Questions about registering to vote in the UK

I recently recieved a form requiring me to register to vote. I shall be sending it back stating that I am registered elsewhere, same as I did last year, however I am curious on a few points.

1) At the bottom of the form I am asked to sign and give the date and my phone number. What happens if I do not actually know my phone number here, having never had to call it, can I just leave this blank?

2) The address given on the encolsed envelope is almost right next-door to where I live. Suspecting that it may be closer than the nearest post box, can I deliver it in person to the City council offices?

3) The form asks, amongst other things, whether these are busines premises. I was wondering what rules there might be over whether somewhere might count as such, and what effect it might have were I to say it is.

4) It asks about people living here on October 15th, which has long since gone, and also requires me not to pass it on to the previous residents. What, then, might someone do if they had only moved into their home after that date?

148.197.114.207 (talk) 17:38, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

If there is nobody living at that residence that wants to register to vote then you can just not send it back. There is no requirement to register to vote in the UK. Given the postal strikes that are going on at the moment, delivering it by hand would probably be a good idea - I can't see that being a problem. I can't help with questions 3 and 4 - is there not a phone number on the form you can ring for advice? --Tango (talk) 17:50, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Really, you don't have to register? My mother forced me to, saying I didn't have a choice... Vimescarrot (talk) 18:10, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

That may have been correct: as far as she was concerned, you didn't have a choice. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 19:31, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

According to the official site, "If you do not respond, or if you provide false information, then you could receive a £1,000 fine." However, it doesn't say (in so many words) that registration is _compulsory_, and I can't immediately find anything in the words of the statute itself (The Representation of the People Act) that makes it compulsory. Tevildo (talk) 20:03, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, you certainly don't have to be registered to vote, plenty of people aren't. You may have to send back the form having ticked a box saying you don't want to register or something, though. --Tango (talk) 20:11, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

You should be registered to vote, but I don't believe that there is any sort of active pursuit of people who don't register. The form should have arrived before October 15th, making question 4 moot - perhaps you have received a reminder, with the previous occupants having not completed it? The form generally has the details of the people who were registered at the address last year, so if you believe that they were still there until after October 15th, presumably you should return it as having no changes, then use the facility on the Electoral Commission website to download a new form and complete it with your details (great bit of bureaucracy!) I can't find anything definitively stating if there are any consequences of marking an address as a business property, other than that they may not continue sending forms in future - but you should only complete that section if there is nobody living at the property, so it refers to a property used solely for business purposes. Warofdreams talk 20:12, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

It seems pretty compulsory to me. That site says, quite clearly: "You need to be on the electoral register to vote in all UK elections and referendums. You are not automatically registered even if you pay council tax. If you receive a request for your registration information from your local electoral registration office then you are legally obliged to respond. If you do not respond, or if you provide false information, then you could receive a £1,000 fine. Not being registered may also affect your credit rating." -- JackofOz (talk) 20:21, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! Vimescarrot (talk) 22:32, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

1) The telephone number is purely so the office can call you to query anything, not part of the registration.

2) The council wants your form back, they will save money if you return it by hand. Where I live, they positively encourage non-postal return by having collection boxes in council offices, libraries etc.

3) If a form arrived at a business premises, where there is no residential accommodation, the council may then remove the address from the list for the forms in future.

4) If someone move house at any time during the year, they can register at their new address by contacting the council or via the Electoral Commission web page. The annual registration forms are still used because so many people do not bother to do that.

With regard to your first statement, I shall be sending it back stating that I am registered elsewhere, you are entitled to do that but equally, you are entitled to register at more than one place that is genuinely your residence. For example, this applies to many students. (You are not however entitled to vote more than once in the same election!) The advantage of being on the register includes the fact that electoral register entries are used by credit checking companies so it is harder to get a bank or credit card account if you are not regietered.

Legally there is a requirement to register to vote, even though voting itself is not compulsory. But it is very rare for anyone to be prosecuted for failing to register. Sussexonian (talk) 08:46, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

¶ This is more by way of a digression, but until the Representation of the People Act 1949, there was a business vote (for example, my grandfather, who owned a business in one London constituency but lived in a different one nearby could have cast two votes; I'm not sure if he did.) While I think the questionnaire is asking about business premises in order to purge them from the address list, I suppose that the question could be an obsolete holdover from an earlier era. —— Shakescene (talk) 20:28, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

old firm games of football

has any1 ever scored an own goal in an old firm football match,if so then could could you say who the player was and when it was scored. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rab-chap (talk • contribs) 23:58, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Apparently Tosh McKinlay scored an own goal while playing for Celtic in November 1995 - see this match report. Warofdreams talk 00:19, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

October 27

the pope

how do i get a message to him in this world ?from little paul. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.38.55.142 (talk) 00:33, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

As opposed to another world? Do you want to contact the Vatican? FisheatersDOTcomSLASHaddressesDOThtml (Wikipedia won't let me link you to it -- apparently, it's SPAM) DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 02:00, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Except on Fridays. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:15, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Since no one wants to answer this seriously, I will. this website lists email addresses for prominent vatican officials. The address for the "Cardinal-Secretary of State" would probably suffice for official state-to-state type communications at the governmental level, there are also numerous email addresses listed for "Pontifical councils" which would likely deal with various issues; depending on the reason for contacting the Vatican, a specific council may be best for dealing with your needs. As far as directly contacting the pope; besides being the head-of-state of a tiny state occupying a few city blocks in Rome; he's also the Chief Executive and spiritual leader of a religion of some 1.147 billion people people; he's probably about as easy to contact as the President of the U.S. or the Queen of the UK or any other similar world leader. --Jayron32 04:30, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't know the process, but I do know it's possible for an ordinary citizen to arrange for an audience with the Pope, as I know someone that did just that. Perhaps that website would explain it. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:33, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

I didn't say it was impossible. It's also possible to meet other world leaders in person as well. I just said it was as likely. --Jayron32 04:47, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

I should point out that the person I knew who met the Pope, had that meeting with the previous Pope. Hard telling whether the current Pope's policy toward openness is the same as was his predecessor. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:55, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Doncha just love anonymous name droppers. Caesar's Daddy (talk) 09:13, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

The Wall Street Journal ran a front-page "human interest" article a month or two ago that said it was far easier to get such audiences if you belonged to a group that had booked through the Vatican's own travel agency. But the original enquirer just wanted to pass a message on to His Holiness, and I don't know what's the best advice. It probably depends on the kind of message. I'm sure the Pope does read a few messages from ordinary people from time to time, but of course no matter how many he reads they would be a very minute fraction of all those that are sent. U.S. President Barack Obama says he tries to read at least ten such letters (picked by his staff) every day. —— Shakescene (talk) 05:29, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Which cars are not included in the PS2 version of NFS Carbon?

Which cars aren't included in the PS2 version of NFS Carbon?SRT8 (talk) 02:30, 27 October 2009 (UTC)SRT8

QUIZ QUESTION!!! ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:56, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

What kind of a quiz asks a question like that? Though it probably belongs on the entertainment desk... --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 07:22, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Why should being a quiz question invalidate it in any way. There are no rules about not answering so-called 'quiz questions' Caesar's Daddy (talk) 09:09, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Is this in comparison to a PS3 / Xbox / PC version or something? If not then there'll be literally 100s of different cars that aren't in the game. I reckon it's unlikely the game has a Morris Minor in it, or a Triumph Stag or a Vauxhall Calibra. Infact this is where the car-games miss a beat - they really should sell little 'classic cars' packs for us geeks that love old cars - i'd happily pay <£5 for a little pack of say 50 (ok, 25) classic cars to add to my Forza garage! 194.221.133.226 (talk) 10:46, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Do you need insurance and an MOT to drive steam powered cars in the UK? I assume you still need tax. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.44.55.2 (talk) 10:50, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Does everyone need anti-reflective coating on his glasses?

The Wikipedia article Antireflection_coating#Ophthalmic_use suggests there is indeed an advantage to it: its "decreased reflection makes them look better, and they produce less glare, which is particularly noticeable when driving at night or working in front of a computer monitor." However, do they mean modern LCD computer monitors or just the old CRT monitors? Would clean glasses without anti-reflective coating also produce glare?--Quest09 (talk) 11:24, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

buying a used semi pro digital SLR?

Iam thinking of upgrading to a digital SLR since I seem to like photography and point and shoot digital cameras seem to be restrictive. I have been doing some research on DSLRs and i found that Nikon or Canon seem to be the best choice. Im also open to less stellar brands such as olympus since the price seem to be lower. Due to the budget constraints, im forced to consider mostly "entry level" DSLRs such as canon eos 1000d. Luckily in ebay people sell body and lens in the same auction and therefore i dont have to buy lenses seperately. I have never used SLRs or DSLRs before and therefore have no idea about them. Iam scared that they, being complex machines, become less reliable with time. Could you please say what I have watch out for when buying them?.