Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Sportspeople: Difference between revisions
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Revision as of 17:32, 24 June 2010
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Deletion Sorting Project |
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This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Sportspeople. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.
- Adding a new AfD discussion
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See also: sports-related deletions, people for deletion
Sportspeople
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. The recent trend has been to delete unsourced BLPs and this is a cleatly barely notable individual where there is not much in the way of sourcing. There are two applicable guidelines, GNG and ATHLETE as well as a local consensus on a wikiproject that does not have wide consensus. In the heirarchy of guidelines N/GNG is senior to ATHLETE and what we have remains essentially an unsourced BLP. Spartaz Humbug! 05:15, 10 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Neil Wain (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Non-notable fighter. Fought 1 fight for a major production and was knocked out in 90 seconds, then didn't fight again for 15+ months. Clearly not "fully professional" so he fails WP:ATH. More importantly, he fails the MMA fighter notability criteria at Wikipedia:WikiProject Mixed martial arts/MMA notability. Papaursa (talk) 01:20, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. —Papaursa (talk) 01:20, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Well he clearly is fully professional, considering he's got a professional record, so I'd be careful about choice of words here. Has also fought once at the VERY top level. Whether he got KOd in a certain amount of time is irrelevant, as he still competed in the UFC. Has also fought a notable in Broughton and is still fighting now, where he's progressed to the next round of the Abu Dhabi tournament. However, a strict reading of WP:MMANOT fails him. Taking all of that into account, I'm going with neutral, leaning towards keep. Paralympiakos (talk) 01:29, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete IMO, a handful of fights, only one of which is in a notable promotion doesn't qualify as fully professional. (Professional yes, not fully.) Google search is a repetition of fighter profiles/records and stories about his one UFC fight. Not notable, IMO. --TreyGeek (talk)
- My own view on this phrase is that you're either professional or you're not. I don't think there's levels. Paralympiakos (talk) 02:08, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I once played disc golf at a tournament in a professional division (as opposed to an amateur division). Therefore, you would consider me a professional disc golf player. However, I made little money and didn't make a living at it. Therefore, I wouldn't be a fully professional disc golf player. --TreyGeek (talk) 02:55, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Professional should not just be the level, but also how if they make their living out of it. Also a this was also an under-card/peliminary fight (even though it was aired) so agian leaning towards not TOP level, i.e. main card, v few fighers have only one appearnce and that's main card unless they already fought in other high level promotions (pride/dream/strike force) before coming to the UFC. --Natet/c 11:46, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I once played disc golf at a tournament in a professional division (as opposed to an amateur division). Therefore, you would consider me a professional disc golf player. However, I made little money and didn't make a living at it. Therefore, I wouldn't be a fully professional disc golf player. --TreyGeek (talk) 02:55, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- My own view on this phrase is that you're either professional or you're not. I don't think there's levels. Paralympiakos (talk) 02:08, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep. He competed at the top level of his sport, which I feel meets WP:ATH. A baseball player that makes one major league start is notable, so is a fighter who has one fight at the top level. Movementarian (Talk) 03:49, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Weak Delete; one source and the only info is his record. Skating on the boarder of notability due to opponents only. The lack of sources mean it has little potential for improvement beyond just his record. --Natet/c 11:40, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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- Delete He fails the notability criteria at MMA notability. What would happen if he was a major league baseball player is irrelevant. He also doesn't meet WP:Ath. Astudent0 (talk) 17:01, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment. I think it is important to remember that WP:MMANOT is not policy and not absolute. Your assertion that he fails WP:ATH is incorrect. He fought in one fight at the fully professional level, ergo he competed at the fully professional level, ergo he qualifies under point no. 1. Movementarian (Talk) 06:06, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I would claim (and have before) that "fully professional" means you're making a living at it. By that criteria, he's never been fully professional. This discussion as well as the ones for WP:MMANOT have taken place at the topic's talk page. You're right that it's not absolute, but it does reflect the consensus of those most interested (and familiar) with the topic. I've been paid for things I've written, but I don't consider myself a professional writer. Papaursa (talk) 17:27, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't have is financials available, so I can't speak to whether he is solely supported by fighting. I take it to mean an appearance at the top level, which he has done. I'll admit this is a weak case, but some parity should be achieved for sports related bios. Competing, however briefly, at the top level is pretty standard across the board. I see no reason why that shouldn't be applied here. Movementarian (Talk) 05:19, 26 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Since he went over 15 months without fighting, I'd say it was safe to say it wasn't his livelihood. As far as being consistent, the criteria for martial artists (WP:MANOTE) says "Olympic medalist" or "Finalist, especially a repeated one, in another significant event;- (e.g. competitors from multiple nations". That seems a bit more than having one fight, so he doesn't meet the criteria for MMA fighters or martial artists. Papaursa (talk) 05:02, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Sorry. I was trying to be funny with the financials comment. The WP:MANOTE seems more in keeping with the general guideline for amateur sport. I think this one could be argued either way. Going back to baseball, anyone that appears in the MLB gets in. I'll admit it is a low bar, but it isn't like we are running out of space. Movementarian (talk) 14:52, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Actually, I enjoyed the financials comment. FYI--My experience is that most martial arts competitions don't differentiate between amateur and professional. There's generally prize money at even the smallest events. That's why the real criteria is competing at the highest level. Papaursa (talk) 23:35, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Just making sure I didn't offend. Sometimes jokes don't travel well through cyberspace. I see where you are coming from and I think our disagreement really comes down to the word "compete". I see the intent as including anyone that has appeared at the top level of their sport. I would like to see this addressed in a wider forum at WP:NSPORTS. Two of us going back and forth isn't exactly creating consensus. Movementarian (talk) 03:55, 1 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Two thoughts, Baseball is (I will grugingly admit) more popular than MMA (for now...) so the same bar is not as relevant; that said I also think that the bar for many sports of 'play 10 minutes as a substitute' at pro level is way too low. --Natet/c 10:21, 1 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I disagree. I don't think the popularity of a sport has anything to do with notability. The bar for athletes is low, but this guy meets WP:ATH. Movementarian (talk) 22:09, 1 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Two thoughts, Baseball is (I will grugingly admit) more popular than MMA (for now...) so the same bar is not as relevant; that said I also think that the bar for many sports of 'play 10 minutes as a substitute' at pro level is way too low. --Natet/c 10:21, 1 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Just making sure I didn't offend. Sometimes jokes don't travel well through cyberspace. I see where you are coming from and I think our disagreement really comes down to the word "compete". I see the intent as including anyone that has appeared at the top level of their sport. I would like to see this addressed in a wider forum at WP:NSPORTS. Two of us going back and forth isn't exactly creating consensus. Movementarian (talk) 03:55, 1 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Actually, I enjoyed the financials comment. FYI--My experience is that most martial arts competitions don't differentiate between amateur and professional. There's generally prize money at even the smallest events. That's why the real criteria is competing at the highest level. Papaursa (talk) 23:35, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Sorry. I was trying to be funny with the financials comment. The WP:MANOTE seems more in keeping with the general guideline for amateur sport. I think this one could be argued either way. Going back to baseball, anyone that appears in the MLB gets in. I'll admit it is a low bar, but it isn't like we are running out of space. Movementarian (talk) 14:52, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Since he went over 15 months without fighting, I'd say it was safe to say it wasn't his livelihood. As far as being consistent, the criteria for martial artists (WP:MANOTE) says "Olympic medalist" or "Finalist, especially a repeated one, in another significant event;- (e.g. competitors from multiple nations". That seems a bit more than having one fight, so he doesn't meet the criteria for MMA fighters or martial artists. Papaursa (talk) 05:02, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't have is financials available, so I can't speak to whether he is solely supported by fighting. I take it to mean an appearance at the top level, which he has done. I'll admit this is a weak case, but some parity should be achieved for sports related bios. Competing, however briefly, at the top level is pretty standard across the board. I see no reason why that shouldn't be applied here. Movementarian (Talk) 05:19, 26 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
*Weak Keep - Meets WP:ATHLETE. ----moreno oso (talk) 02:51, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
[reply]
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NativeForeigner Talk/Contribs 05:47, 2 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep - Meets WP:ATHLETE as the subject fought at the highest level of his sport. ----moreno oso (talk) 05:55, 2 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete The discussion at WP:NSPORT convinces me that the standards of the people involved with the particular sport should carry more weight and the WP:ATH is too vague. Therefore, I defer to WP:MMANOT and vote delete. 131.118.229.82 (talk) 16:42, 6 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was speedy delete. No mention on team's own website. NativeForeigner Talk/Contribs 00:50, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Lisa Hamm (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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I tried a "no context" speedy but infoboxes are apparently considered sufficient. I googled "Lisa Ham "Burton Albion LFC"" but got zero results besides this page so it appears to be a hoax. -- Marcus Qwertyus (talk) 22:47, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm not sure what was wrong with the WP:BLPPROD that I added and you removed in order to nominate it for AFD. Technically nobody is supposed to remove a BLP PROD without providing sources. Beeblebrox (talk) 00:48, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Speedy delete as hoax. I'm pretty sure the U.S. national team hasn't played 16 games already this year (this says they've played seven), and I'm more sure that a player who scored over a goal a game in those contests would have coverage all over the place. I can't find any sources either, and the key facts in the infobox smell. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 15:16, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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- Delete -apparent hoax -Drdisque (talk) 16:55, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Tone 20:55, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Josh Aviet (Squash Player) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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I can find no significant coverage in reliable sources to indicate that this person meets the general notability guideline. Though there appears to be a junior squash player by this name, I'm finding no evidence to support the claims of competing at a national level that would satisfy WP:ATHLETE. Gonzonoir (talk) 07:01, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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I can get proof of him playing at national level. I can get the draws of two Australian Opens, as well as the International Milo All Star tournament, clearly showing his name.Ilikesquash (talk) 10:29, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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- Delete fails GNG and ATHLETE -Drdisque (talk) 16:56, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete as article fails WP:ATHLETE. (By the way there is another article with the same subject: Josh Aviet (squash player)) Armbrust Talk Contribs 15:24, 28 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment, copied from this AfD's talk page:
- I can send forms showing his participation in two Australian Junior Championships, as well as the international event the Milo All Star 2010, which comprised of 14 different countries.Ilikesquash (talk) 08:55, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Unfortunately, although this might be helpful in verifying some of the article's claims, unless this information has already been published in reliable sources it would not help to satisfy the notability grounds on which the article's deletion is proposed. I'll move your comment to the main deletion discussion page so that others can see it. Gonzonoir (talk) 15:32, 28 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 00:58, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Eddie Garrison (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Basically a puff piece without references that establish the subject's notability. Drmies (talk) 03:49, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete the article has all the hallmarks of a conflict of interest – the creator and main contributors are a WP:SPA and IP account respectively. The article fails WP:RS, and the references are hobbyist sites, and are in any event for his trivial pursuits (ie not for his professional career or his life). There are only 141 unique Ghits for "Eddie Garrison" hockey, which is also a strong indicator of his general lack of notability Ohconfucius ¡digame! 05:41, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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- Delete His touring car racing was not "professional" as he claims. Other sports similarly fails WP:ATHLETE -Drdisque (talk) 16:58, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. T. Canens (talk) 04:03, 29 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Max Williams-Forbes (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Proposed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject_Martial_arts/Article_Review 19th May 2010, User:Jmcw37 as secretary.
WP:NRVE Wikipedia:WPMA/N "No reliable sources found to verify notability" jmcw (talk) 13:33, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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- Delete. I have found no reliable sources to support notability. Janggeom (talk) 13:49, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete I found no independent sources that show notability. Article makes some wild unsourced claims, such as the subject "being renowned for inventing the concept of submissions". Fails WP:MANOTE. Astudent0 (talk) 19:03, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete No reliable sources support notability. Article appears to be autobiographical with false and inflated claims. Papaursa (talk) 01:27, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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- Delete per above -Drdisque (talk) 16:59, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 18:01, 8 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Anastasia Levshina (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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fails WP:ATHLETE. has not competed at the highest level for her sport which is World Figure Skating Championships. LibStar (talk) 05:00, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:25, 29 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:07, 6 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Second relist rationale. The article is a BLP. --Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:08, 6 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete has not competed in major senior-level competition. -Drdisque (talk) 15:43, 6 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 00:07, 1 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Jim Norris (Interim Athletic Director) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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No indication why this person is especially important, significant, or notable. Most athletic directors don't have their own pages, why should an interim AD have one? — Timneu22 · talk 13:17, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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- Delete - no assertion of notability, fails WP:GNG. Resolute 01:08, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. T. Canens (talk) 01:22, 29 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Derby Carillo (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Player is non-notable soccer player with no professional experience, and no relevant collegiate history. Fails WP:GNG, WP:ATH and WP:FOOTY/N JonBroxton (talk) 01:38, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete, fails WP:ATH as he has not played at a fully-professional level. Also fails WP:GNG due to a lack of significant media coverage beyond the WP:NTEMP stuff. --Jimbo[online] 02:14, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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- Delete - fails WP:ATHLETE and WP:GNG. GiantSnowman 02:59, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete --MicroX (talk) 06:57, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 01:03, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Bobby Stroupe (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Notability is questionable, no sources Jweiss11 (talk) 22:43, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete even if sources for the information given were found, the subject still would not meet notability standards. If there's more information and more notability, it needs to be edited into the article.--Paul McDonald (talk) 00:39, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete - no news sources found ([1]), non-notable career. Eagles 24/7 (C) 16:46, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete- Who? --Rockstonetalk to me! 03:44, 28 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. No arguments for deletion aside from the nominator. (non-admin closure) Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:09, 28 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Adis Obad (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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This guy does not meet notability criteria. No English language sources refer to him. No reliable source in any language say anything about him as a person; he is only marginally mentioned as a football player. That's why the article consists of an infobox and one sentence. Per WP:ATHLETE, this article shouldn't exist. The article is unreferenced, even though it is a biography of a living person. Curiously enough, he lives about ten metres away from me and I was shocked when I saw an article about him on Wikipedia. Surtsicna (talk) 16:59, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep. Has played for his national team[2] and in the UEFA Cup[3], both levels that are generally accepted to confer notability. Phil Bridger (talk) 12:35, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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- Keep - He is notable as a football player, appearing twice in FIFA "A" internationals and playing three seasons in the fully-pro German second division. I've added a few references that show the article passes WP:ATHLETE, and I suspect it will pass WP:GNG with a little work. Jogurney (talk) 02:09, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep - With appearances in the 2. Bundesliga and for his country, this player very clearly passes WP:ATHLETE. Sir Sputnik (talk) 21:09, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep - obvious notability that a quick Google search (or a pop down the road to chat with the guy!) would have shown. GiantSnowman 22:50, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep - per ATHLETE, played 2.Bundesliga and a couple of international appearances, referenced. note: this suggests he only played 45 (9) for Oberhausen, not the 108 (23) per article. --ClubOranjeT 09:13, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't think transfermarkt.de is a reliable source. Kicker.de and fussballdaten.de support the 108 (23) figures. Jogurney (talk) 14:46, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was no consensus. Shimeru 00:21, 14 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Mohammad Fanaei (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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This man is apparently notable for only one event - being an assistant referee for the 1994 FIFA World Cup Final. Linesmen are not typically notable unless they go on to become proper referees. Even Fanaei's other claims to notability are not that special, as there were several other linesmen at the 1992 Summer Olympics and the 1995 King Fahd Cup, and others have been named AFC Linesman of the Year. – PeeJay 14:10, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep: He is very well-known in Iran, and currently serves as a frequent commentator on national TV. Here is a link to the awards (The link in the article don't work).Farhikht (talk) 15:56, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Your comments don't really address his notability. – PeeJay 17:21, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Before being an assistant referee, he has refereed matches in Iran Pro League. In 1994, he was an official in the final match of Azadegan League between Esteghlal FC and Saipa FC[1]. He was also team manager of Iran under 23 soccer team but has been fired.Farhikht (talk) 11:15, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- If that is true, it should be mentioned in the article with appropriate references. – PeeJay 13:51, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Before being an assistant referee, he has refereed matches in Iran Pro League. In 1994, he was an official in the final match of Azadegan League between Esteghlal FC and Saipa FC[1]. He was also team manager of Iran under 23 soccer team but has been fired.Farhikht (talk) 11:15, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Your comments don't really address his notability. – PeeJay 17:21, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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- Delete - fails WP:ATHLETE and WP:GNG. GiantSnowman 03:00, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Well, yes he does fail ATHLETE. Because he isn't an athlete and that guideline has nothing about referees in it. Stephen Hawking fails ATHLETE but you wouldn't delete him. BigDom 08:49, 9 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
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- Comment. I would take issue with the relevance of the nominator's statement that "linesmen are not typically notable unless they go on to become proper referees", as nobody gets to be a linesman at the World Cup, let alone at the final, without being an experienced "proper referee" in a national league. Phil Bridger (talk) 22:55, 29 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- This is not true. The English linesmen at the 2010 World Cup, Darren Cann and Mike Mullarkey, are not full-time referees in one of the English national leagues; they are linesmen. That said, I don't know about the situation of the other linesmen at the World Cup, nor can I comment on previous World Cups. Nevertheless, I have seen no evidence that Mohammad Fanaei has ever been a proper referee, either in Iran or in a FIFA match. – PeeJay 02:31, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- This is from Associated Press. According to AP Fanaei is a a leading soccer referee.Farhikht (talk) 11:09, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep: He's widely known in Iran. He was also the Head of Iranian Referees Commitee in IRIFF before. Amirreza talk 14:45, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Being widely known is not a guarantee of notability, and you have yet to provide any evidence that he has done anything that would confer notability. – PeeJay 11:31, 4 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NW (Talk) 14:29, 5 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete: Does not pass the GNG from what I can see after a thorough search for sources. BigDom 08:49, 9 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep: I see no reason to delete this page. The man has obviously made certain accomplishments. This is information which someone in the world may be seeking -- which I believe is the general purpose of Wikipedia. Whether or not this person has reached a specific ranking or position to allow him a Wikipedia page should not be an issue. If he does later on go on to become a referee, then this page will be made again, and the research will have to be repeated. Is Wikipedia running out of hard drive space?? Ksaraf (talk) 14:57, 12 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Wikipedia's purpose is to cover notable topics, not to provide information that "someone in the world may be seeking". We have specific notability criteria for sportspeople, and it seems that this fellow does not meet those criteria. Oh, and if the article does need to be recreated in the future, an admin can simply restore the page, so no-one would need to re-research the topic. – PeeJay 15:05, 12 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Lots of SPA comments duly disregarded per usual practice. T. Canens (talk) 23:55, 28 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Andrew Giallombardo (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Player is non-notable soccer player with no professional experience, and no relevant collegiate history. Fails WP:GNG, WP:ATH and WP:FOOTY/N JonBroxton (talk) 07:23, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete per nom. Actually, it could have even been speedied. — Luxic (talk) 14:13, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. GiantSnowman 23:15, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete - fails WP:ATHLETE and WP:GNG; was not eligible for a speedy as some degree of notability is implied. GiantSnowman 23:17, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep - Comparable players have profiles, see Nikolas Besagno , Jason Cascio, teammate Oscar Moens among many others. Obviously this is a contextual point. But on another consideration all the PDL teams have pages with rosters full of red-links. Pursuant to WP:IAR we need make this better. Nothing is more frustrating to wikipedia's users than to see articles on a topic riddled with red -- if we are covering the PDL on Wikipedia, and it seems we are, the key players should have profiles. Also, Andrew played for Southampton FC which, at the time, was Championship Division in England. He is quite young, but is in the early stages of a very promising career. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MKS1923 (talk • contribs) 19:56, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- As far as I can see, Besagno has played for Real Salt Lake of the MLS and Moens has played professionally in the Dutch Eredivisie; they're not exactly comparable to Giallombardo. While that other guy, Cascio, seems to fail WP:FOOTY/N too. Anyway, red links should be use only to indicate [...] that an article should be created for the topic because it would be notable and verifiable. So, if you don't want to have rosters full of red links, simply delink the currently non-notable players (see A.C. Milan Primavera to see what I mean). — Luxic (talk) 21:38, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Actually (and this is completely unrelated to this AfD), but I'm begging you please DON'T delete the redlinks on the PDL squads. This is because the redlinks are used not just for article creation, but also for career-tracking when the players turn professional. There is currenly no way using other sources to follow a player's PDL career - the USL website doesn't do it, and there is no other information source which keep track of all the PDL teams a player has played for prior to turning pro. When he turns pro his article is usually created via his pro team's roster; by keeping the redlinks, we can use the "What links here" toolbox to track back and see which PDL team(s) the player has played for, and be able to put together a proper career history. It's a vital way of keeping track of this info, and why the redlinks exist in these instances. (Oh, and BTW, Jason Cascio passes WP:ATH having played for the Seattle Sounders in the USL First Division, while Giallombardo never played a senior game for Southampton) --JonBroxton (talk) 00:20, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- There is an argument, I think, that our Athlete notability guidelines are not in line with current Wikipedia practice. PDL is the highest "amateur" level of soccer in the US and many of its athletes have profiles. Since all its teams have redlinked rosters it might improve the user experience to adapt to expectations. Maybe WP:FOOTY/N should be a little less restrictive. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.151.208.130 (talk) 19:14, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Except that soccer is not an amateur sport. The "highest amateur level" guideline of of WP:ATHLETE only applies where there is no professionalism in the sport, which is clearly not the case here. The guidelines at FOOTY/N are perfect, as they allow for the creation of thousands and thousands of articles on professional soccer players. Adapting them to also allow for the creation of thousands and thousands of articles on amateur soccer players would open the floodgates for anyone to create an article on anyone, which would make the WP:FOOTY project entirely unmanagable. If Giallombardo is good enough, he will turn professional at some point anyway, and will be eligible for an article then. --JonBroxton (talk) 19:53, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- As far as I can see, Besagno has played for Real Salt Lake of the MLS and Moens has played professionally in the Dutch Eredivisie; they're not exactly comparable to Giallombardo. While that other guy, Cascio, seems to fail WP:FOOTY/N too. Anyway, red links should be use only to indicate [...] that an article should be created for the topic because it would be notable and verifiable. So, if you don't want to have rosters full of red links, simply delink the currently non-notable players (see A.C. Milan Primavera to see what I mean). — Luxic (talk) 21:38, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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Keep -Andrew is promising player who has already established a quite successful career —Preceding unsigned comment added by Etochihara (talk • contribs) 20:13, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- The following was added to the talk page of this AfD by an IP, I move it here for completeness.... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:37, 23 June 2010 (UTC): Keep - Though it may not seem newsworthy to some, being able to track PDL players is extremely beneficial to those of us that keep track of the United States National Teams from the youth level moving forward. There is no harm from a player of Giallombardo's caliber (Southampton, US National Team U17 Captain) having a wikipedia page, as I believe the original guidelines were probably meant to keep out "frivilous" players. Though he may not be Landon Donovan, his name is recognizable within American soccer circles.[reply]
- Delete - never played professionally. Personally I think the last thing we need to do is to make our notability guidelines for sportspeople less restrictive, a lot of editors think they're already far far too lax as it is...... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:37, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete - fails WP:ATH and WP:FOOTY/N since he has no professional experience. Whether he is promising is irrelevant to the question. The last thing we need is to relax the guidelines - there are already far too many articles on footballers. While some may regard Giallombardo as a high caliber player, the Wikipedia standard is whether he has played a professional game: if he has, he is deemed good enough to be included; if he has not, he is not good enough YET and he should not have a page to himself YET. While some may want to track Giallombardo's career, Wikipedia is not the medium for it. Craddocktm (talk) 11:34, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Strong Keep - per WP:GNG. The subject received "significant coverage" from two reliable sourced international newswires that are "independent" of soccer associations or websites. Additionally, there are enough secondary sources to indicate no original research is needed as per WP:GNG to "extract the content". The coverage as WP:GNG is significant because he was mentioned by name in the articles' titles and filled the reports. ----moreno oso (talk) 12:50, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- And what makes this different from the thousands of other amateur players who recieve significant coverage? We can't include everyone. --JonBroxton (talk) 16:02, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't know about WP:OTHERSTUFF. This one meets WP:GNG. ----moreno oso (talk) 20:09, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Actually, WP:GNG also says that significant coverage in reliable sources establishes a presumption, not a guarantee, that a subject is suitable for inclusion. Editors may reach a consensus that although a topic meets this criterion, it is not appropriate for a stand-alone article. — Luxic (talk) 07:50, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't know about WP:OTHERSTUFF. This one meets WP:GNG. ----moreno oso (talk) 20:09, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep - It meets WP:GNG and seems that the argument for deletion is premised on some default of deleting any American soccer player not in MLS. That is a false standard. Even if we don't elect to write articles for all "the thousands of other amateur players" as Moreno Oso pointed out, that is WP:OTHERSTUFF and the absence of articles for every amateur player does not mean this one should likewise be deleted. It looks fairly substantial at this point. The presumption is established, and personally I have to disagree with a strict deletionist perspective here. We can't include everyone, but we can include an unlimited number of notable persons. Treko (talk) 14:26, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Don't see how you can call WP:ATH and WP:FOOTY/N "false standard", when these guidelines are generally accepted by the Wikipedia community. If they are false standard, one may similarly call WP:GNG "false standard". At any rate, if one frames the argument as "since there is no articles on other amateur players, so we should not have an article on Giallombardo", that would necessarily be WP:OTHERSTUFF; however, that is to focus on a side argument and ignore the main one, which is: WP:ATH and WP:FOOTY/N establish that only professional players are deemed notable and Giallombardo has not played a professional game. That is NOT WP:OTHERSTUFF.
- I don't think it would be a balanced argument to ignore WP:GNG or WP:ATH or WP:FOOTY/N since they are all relevant to the argument. To be fair, all the relevant guidelines should be read together. My interpretation of the guidelines is this: if reliable third party sources can be found on a certain subject, there is a presumption that that subject is notable. However, presumptions can be rebutted by certain facts. In footballer articles, the presumption may be rebutted by the failure to have achieved professional status. Whether the rebuttal will be successful depends on the strength of the presumption: the more reliable sources you can cite, the stronger the presumption. The failure to achieve professional status would rebut a weak presumption but not a strong one. In the case of Giallombardo, only 2 reliable sources offer significant coverage. The presumption tends to be weak and is easily rebutted by the failure to achieve professional status.Craddocktm (talk) 18:17, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- "Keep"---I strongly reccomend this article should be kept as it has value and merit. Andrew is a strong player with a bright future. I have followed his career since his time in residency and I see his potential. This player was signed to a professional with Southampton FC. In addition the Dayton Dutch Lions are thought to be promoted to USL next season. Furthermore, numerous players who were in residency in Bradenton, who play for comparable clubs in other countries and the US, have their own wikipedia pages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.73.172.212 (talk) 11:24, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 04:46, 4 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Neil Wagner (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Appears to fail WP:ATH guidance. Fæ (talk) 07:00, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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- Delete He doesn't seem to pass WP:BASEBALL/N, as he haven't played major league baseball and there doesn't seem to be any significant coverage of his minor league career.TheFreeloader (talk) 14:17, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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- Merge to Oakland Athletics minor league players. He's in the A's organization now. Spanneraol (talk) 02:55, 26 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Delete Sarah 03:03, 2 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Robert Stambolziev (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Has not played in profesional league, not notable. Contested PROD. First AfD was never transcluded or even referenced on the article page. — Jeff G. ツ 14:44, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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- Delete fails WP:ATHLETE. nom is correct in stating that he has not played at highest professional level. LibStar (talk) 06:50, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:11, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete - fails WP:ATHLETE and WP:GNG. GiantSnowman 20:36, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep - Well sourced, passes WP:GNG. Only fails WP:ATHLETE on a technicality, due to the contractual/compensation dispute with Bristol City. Eliteimp (talk) 18:10, 26 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Note that the sentence claiming that he's only kept out of the first team due to that dispute is unsourced - who's to say he'd have played first-team football anyway....? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:14, 26 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:04, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Relisting comment. More discussion is needed on whether or not he meets WP:GNG. I fixed up and closed the first AFD. --Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:09, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete – As long as there's no proof of any professional first team appearances, he fails WP:ATHLETE and WP:FOOTY/N. — Luxic (talk) 13:06, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Perhaps you misread the relisting comment? This discussion is about WP:GNG, thanks. Eliteimp (talk) 17:21, 28 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Well, WP:GNG states that significant coverage in reliable sources establishes a presumption, not a guarantee, that a subject is suitable for inclusion. Editors may reach a consensus that although a topic meets this criterion, it is not appropriate for a stand-alone article. As far as I know, consensus is to follow WP:ATHLETE and WP:FOOTY/N, when it comes to footballers. So, unless it's proved he's notable for something else other than his football career, I can't see why he should be on Wiki. — Luxic (talk) 18:30, 28 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Actually ATHLETE and FOOTY state A person who fails to meet these additional criteria may still be notable under Wikipedia:Notability, so they do not trump GNG. Nobody disputes that Stambolziev fails these dubious criteria but I contend that he passes GNG, specifically by recieving significant coverage in third-party, reliable secondary souces. In the sources supplied he certainly gets "more than a trivial mention" though he "need not be the main topic of the source material" in any event. Eliteimp (talk) 18:59, 28 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- What I was trying to point out is that in GNG the key word is presumption. That is, significant coverage in third-party, reliable secondary souces gives a presumption of notability, but does not assure it. That's why we have specific notability guidelines for each subject, I think. — Luxic (talk) 20:46, 28 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I consider a topic that passes WP:GNG to be worthy of inclusion on Wikipedia, as long as it does not violate Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not (that is what the "presumption" of notability refers to). In this situation, I am not convinced that Robert Stambolziev passes GNG so I cannot support retention. Cunard (talk) 05:38, 29 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Luxic certainly provides a novel interpretation of the policy, but I remain convinced that if WP:GNG is met then the article is notable and should remain. Contributions here which evince a preference for WP:ATHLETE, while doing nothing to dispute or even address the claim to WP:GNG don't carry much weight in my eyes. I'm sure the closing admin will note that no-one here has credibly challenged the WP:RSs or the claim to WP:GNG when they hand down their judgement. Eliteimp (talk) 15:53, 29 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I've been on this site for years and as far as I recall, footballers failing WP:FOOTY/N have always been deleted, regardless of any significant coverage of their youth/amateur careers. So, rather than a novel interpretation of mine, I'd call it consesus (which, of course, you may not agree with). — Luxic (talk) 16:45, 29 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Deleteper the lack of significant coverage in reliable sources. Of the sources listed in the article, I looked at a few, and all were either passing mentions or broken links. In this Google News Archive search, I was unable to find significant coverage that discussed Stambolziev's life. I consider this article from the BBC, though about Stambolziev, to be insufficient to establish notability because it lacks depth. If Eliteimp can provide links to two reliable sources that provide significant coverage about Stambolziev (and more depth than the BBC article I mentioned above), I will reconsider my position. Cunard (talk) 06:21, 28 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment In these discussions there is a tendency to override WP:GNG by pretending any and every source supplied is "trivial". In addition to the those in the article, I found [4] and [5] within a couple of minutes. I don't understand your request for coverage discussing Stambolziev's life in depth - surely the notability attaches to his career as a footballer? As far as I can see there are numerous reliable third-party sources which are wholly and/or explicitly to do with that. Eliteimp (talk) 17:21, 28 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Those sources are not enough to cause me to change to keep in that they contain little information about his life and seem to be news reports that contain little depth (for example, little of this article contains little secondary information about Stambolziev himself — I count three sentences about him and the rest of the article being composed of excerpts from an interview). However, these sources are enough to cause me to strike my delete vote and switch to neutral. Cunard (talk) 05:38, 29 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete. In my view, Luxic is absolutely right. We have to remember that both WP:ATH and WP:GNG are guidelines that give rise to presumptions, not guarantees of notability. With that in mind, neither "trumps" the other. This person clearly fails WP:ATH, which is the community's most generous inclusion criterion. On the other hand, his case on GNG is marginal at best - the sources appear provide isolated sports news coverage of events in his career rather than in depth biographical material. So in my view any presumption caused by the subject meeting the GNG - which is weak - is outweighed by his clear failure to meet the objective criteria of WP:ATH. Only with this approach can we mitigate the randomness and unpredictability of the GNG with sensible objective standards of notability. At the end of the day, notability is about being "worthy of note", and it is only in special cases that a non-professional footballer in England is likely to be worthy of note.--Mkativerata (talk) 06:17, 29 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete per nom and Mkativerata. Orderinchaos 10:12, 29 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 00:59, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Freddie Weinke (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Questionable notability, article was created by User:Fjwinks, who is likely the subject of this article. Jweiss11 (talk) 07:00, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete. Subject fails WP:ATH and more specifically WP:NSPORTS for American/Canadian football players, as he has never competed in a major professional league. I tried to find independent information to verify the claims in the article, but other than two af2 press releases[6][7], I was unsuccessful. Movementarian (Talk) 08:26, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete - Non-notable professional and college career. Being the cousin of Chris Weinke does not justify notability either. Eagles 24/7 (C) 14:23, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete - Echo the above two. --Riotrocket8676 You gotta problem with that? 14:26, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete Assistant coaches are normally not notable per WP:CFBCOACH (essay, not policy), and there does not appear to be any other assertion to notability outside of the non-notable lower-level professional football play.--Paul McDonald (talk) 15:17, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 01:00, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Chris Hawkins (coach) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Don't think Chris Hawkins (coach) meets notability guidelines. He's a high school coach and media coverage on him seems to be only local. Coaching one player who later made it to the NFL, Charlie Frye, isn't enough to establish notability alone. Jweiss11 (talk) 03:06, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete high school coaches are normally not considered notable. Espeically those who don't have any sources in their articles...--Paul McDonald (talk) 03:21, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete. Fails WP:BIO. Movementarian (Talk) 08:17, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete fails GNG and ATHLETE -Drdisque (talk) 17:51, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. NW (Talk) 14:34, 5 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Shannon Dawson (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Not sure if Shannon Dawson meets notability requirements. Also, the article as it stands is in very bad shape. It is poorly formatted, not properly categorized, lacks any citations, and much of its content seems to have been copied and pasted from http://sfajacks.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/dawson_shannon00.html or similar web page. Jweiss11 (talk) 02:40, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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- Note - I have removed the copyrighted text from the article. Eagles 24/7 (C) 03:02, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete assistant coaches at the college level are normally not considered notable. The subject can reach notability through other means, but I don't see any assertion other than assistant coaching.--Paul McDonald (talk) 03:18, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete Agree on all points with Paul McDonald. Obamafan70 (talk) 04:03, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete Fails WP:GNG as well as WP:ATHLETE for both a coach and player (he played for Division II Wingate University and did not play professionally). -Drdisque (talk) 17:50, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- This AfD nomination was incomplete (missing step 3). It is listed now. DumbBOT (talk) 11:55, 28 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete - Subject does not pass WP:ATHLETE as a coach or college player, and I can't find significant coverage in reliable sources that would indicate notability per WP:BIO. P. D. Cook Talk to me! 12:13, 28 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Shimeru 08:02, 26 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Manfred Hamilton (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Wikipedia is not a memorial site, but that's what this article feels like, even after continued cleanup. The subject's claim to fame is winning a "Mr. Universe" title in the over 60 category in 2004. However, it does not appear to be a notable competition, as neither WFF Universe nor GMV Bodybuilding has an article. The only source that corroborates the title is the sponsor's website. Not even the illustrations can be relied upon, as they're created by a member of the subject's family. Finally, speaking of member of the subject's family, Jizzom (talk · contribs) (note: user is requesting a username change to grumet_kaz (talk · contribs)) admitted to being the subject's son, so there is a severe conflict of interest on the part of the main contributor. —C.Fred (talk) 02:55, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Im not sure If I'm allowed to write here? Im new to this, But I just trying to stop This article is being considered for deletion in accordance with Wikipedia's deletion policy. I would just like to leave the artical as is, I know how you feel that its not a Memorial Page But I've tried to make it less, with just Infomation. And will leave as is(I have contacted NABBA/WFF) Friends of Manie and are wating on their site to update with list of all tittles untill then I would love to just leave as is. And keep Manfred Hamilton. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jizzom (talk • contribs) 03:37, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Is this him (in the over 60s cat)? Keep if so. Albeit a major re-write needed. Eliteimp (talk) 11:36, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- It might be, but do you notice that http://www.worldfitnessfederation.de is not actually a valid URL by itself? There is no year specified, no contact information, no validation - I can't begin to see it as a reliable source (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 11:46, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- What about that page makes you think he's a keep based on that result? What about that website (and the root page is http://www.worldfitnessfederation.de/nabba/frame1/navi_wff.html with nothing higher level) confers more notability on the competition than it had before you found it? —C.Fred (talk) 12:50, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I think it's clear from that page and NABBA that the guy was competing at the top level of international amateur bodybuilding. I also think it ridiculous that the user has been blocked for supposedly having a "lewd synonym" for a user name. Eliteimp (talk) 15:06, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- What? You think "jism" (what the Oxford English Dictionary calls "vulgar, slang" for semen) is an ok username?? (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 12:14, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I think it's clear from that page and NABBA that the guy was competing at the top level of international amateur bodybuilding. I also think it ridiculous that the user has been blocked for supposedly having a "lewd synonym" for a user name. Eliteimp (talk) 15:06, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- What about that page makes you think he's a keep based on that result? What about that website (and the root page is http://www.worldfitnessfederation.de/nabba/frame1/navi_wff.html with nothing higher level) confers more notability on the competition than it had before you found it? —C.Fred (talk) 12:50, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- It might be, but do you notice that http://www.worldfitnessfederation.de is not actually a valid URL by itself? There is no year specified, no contact information, no validation - I can't begin to see it as a reliable source (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 11:46, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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- Delete very few body builders meet WP:GNG (including this one), there is no WP:ATHLETE for Body Building, and he does not appear to have been a professional -Drdisque (talk) 17:47, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 03:53, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Stefan Payne (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Article on young footballer who has not played at a fully professional level as required by WP:ATHLETE. Originally PROD'ed by myself on these grounds, disputed by creator who said the following: "Payne has played numerous reserve team games for Fulham; I know that he is certainly Football League standard and would be surprised not to see him playing for Gillingham next season. No, he hasn't had a proffessional game quite yet, but I am sure he is to very soon too. Also, he was part of a Premier League team. Even if it was only at reserve level, it's still the best league in the world. As soon as his signing for Gillingham was officially announced, an IP came and added it to the page, this shows that there is interest in this player's WP article. If there are any more concerns I would be happy to answer them. Thanks". Thus I bring it here. As an aside, it's refreshing to see a PROD being removed and an explanation actually being given as to the reasoning behind it for once......... ChrisTheDude (talk) 11:47, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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- Delete per WP:ATHLETE failure. Deprodding reason could be quoted as a classic example of WP:CRYSTAL. пﮟოьεԻ 57 11:58, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete per nom and Number 57, defiantly WP:CRYSTAL - argument by the user who disputed the prod that an IP edited the page is irrelevant, editing the page does not establish notability RandomTime 13:59, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete (I am creator) Very well, I understand if he is not notable quite yet. Just to clarifying my point about the IP, it showed that a non-Wikipedian had gone onto the page, probably to find out information about him. I have saved a copy of the page and will reinstate it as soon as he gets his first professional app., which will be soon I reckon. I am new to all this, and was just doing my bit to make WP bigger and better, but I realise I was a bit hasty. Thanks. Half Price (talk) 15:39, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete - Hasn't played at a fully-pro level and can't find anything to ensure that he passes Wp:GNG means no other outcome should happen than to delete the article. DitzyNizzy (aka Jess)|(talk to me)|(What I've done) 15:42, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - It's also nice to see someone take the effort to explain why the PROD tag was removed, rather than it just being removed without comment. DitzyNizzy (aka Jess)|(talk to me)|(What I've done) 15:48, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete. The prod game is lame anyhow. This needs to be deleted through regular channels. JBsupreme (talk) ✄ ✄ ✄ 16:30, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete - fails WP:ATHLETE and WP:GNG; recreate if & when he become notable. GiantSnowman 18:49, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. –MuZemike 00:10, 26 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Zsolt Pölöskei (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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WP:HOAX, also fails WP:GNG and WP:ATHLETE. Specifically: the two articles listed are almost identical copies of each other. Both make claims for notability (appearances for MTK Hungaria and membership of the Hungary national football team which are not supported by sources: here is the FIFA report for the Hungary match the two players supposedly played in. There's no suggestion on the website of MTK Hungaria that either player has appeared in the first team. And finally, on the day they both supposedly played for Liverpool reserves against Crewe reserves, Liverpool were playing Manchester City. Page created by serial page creator. Pretty Green (talk) 08:43, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I am also nominating the following related page, which is essentially a copy of the first and contains the same false information.:
- Krisztián Adorján (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) --Pretty Green (talk) 08:51, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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- Delete both. Pölöskei played youth level for Hungary and only reserve football for LFC, but that is all - does not seem to have appeared for first team at MTK Hungaria. Not sure if Adorján has ever played serious football for anybody. Youth representation does not confer notability and reserve football certainly doesn't. --ClubOranjeT 10:16, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete both - not hoaxes, but certainly not notable - both fail WP:ATHLETE and WP:GNG. GiantSnowman 18:47, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I should point out that I mention WP:HOAX under the context of it's first sentence: A hoax is an attempt to trick an audience into believing that something false is real. This article, by claiming the players have appeared for MTK and have been in the Hungary national team, is doing such. --Pretty Green (talk) 10:35, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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- Delete both. In agreement with above arguments --MicroX (talk) 06:51, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: I indefinitely blocked the article's creator for... creating articles about non-notable players. I believe the author either lacks competence or is deliberately creating hoaxes. No way of telling, however, since they never responded to warnings, comments or questions on their talk page. TFOWR 09:40, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 03:51, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Anastasia Gavrylovych (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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fails WP:ATHLETE, has not competed at the top amateur level which would be World Figure Skating Championships. LibStar (talk) 01:08, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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- Delete I would even accept a lower senior level championship such as the European Championships, but she has not even competed in that. -Drdisque (talk) 14:05, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. –MuZemike 00:41, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keisuke Fujiwara (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Fails WP:MMANOT Paralympiakos (talk) 11:31, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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- Delete Seems to fail WP:MMANOT. He hasn't fought in notable events or against notable opponents. Astudent0 (talk) 18:04, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete Fails WP:MMANOT. Papaursa (talk) 18:09, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
He's fought in DREAM which is notable--KEWLONION (talk) 18:40, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Alright, but I want to know if I can bring up the issue about DEEP and ZST being notable somewhere, can someone help me where to debate that --KEWLONION (talk) 18:41, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- The place to bring this up is Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mixed martial arts. The goal there is to find consensus about what constitutes a "notable" MMA organization (besides UFC). Papaursa (talk) 01:01, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. The rough consensus indicates that the general notability guideline has been met, the main reasons given for retention. –MuZemike 00:07, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Jameson Taillon (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Fails WP:ATHLETE This article was WP:PRODed but its creator removed the PROD. Fails both criteria of WP:ATHLETE as:
- The subject "has not competed at the fully professional level of a sport, or a competition of equivalent standing in a non-league sport such as swimming, golf or tennis, except for those that participated only in competitions that are themselves non-notable."
- The subject "has not competed at the highest amateur level of a sport, usually considered to mean the Olympic Games or World Championships.
While the subject may have received reliable sourced press, that does not make him notable per the higher standards of WP:ATHLETE." --moreno oso (talk) 03:58, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Strong Keep: The PROD was removed because it was not applicable. I concede that the subject appears to fail WP:ATHLETE, but that is NOT sufficient reason for deletion. WP:ATHLETE does not supersede WP:GNG. If you look earlier in WP:ATHELTE, you will see the following: "Failure to meet these criteria is not conclusive proof that a subject should not be included; conversely, meeting one or more does not guarantee that a subject should be included." Given that, no justification at all has been presented for deletion. The subject passes WP:GNG due to the significant coverage he received from the likes of MLB, ESPN, and Baseball Prospectus. Mickeyg13 (talk) 04:08, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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- Keep WP:ATHLETE is a fallback in case a page does not obviously meet WP:GNG. In my opinion, a person with over 1,000,000 google hits and over 250 Google News hits has easily met the requirement of having significant coverage in third party sources. Rather surprised that this was even nominated. Kinston eagle (talk) 09:56, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep. As second overall pick, there's significant coverage. Agree with Kinston eagle that WP:ATHLETE is a fallback. Now, if this guy had been the 47th overall pick or something, it would be a different story. — Timneu22 · talk 12:08, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete Manny Machado's article got deleted for the simple fact that he had not played professionally. The same rules should apply for Taillon.--Yankees10 15:40, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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- Per WP:WAX, the deletion of Machado's article is not sufficient justification to delete this one. Also, not playing professionally is not enough justification. The issue to debate is NOT whether Taillon meets WP:ATHLETE (we agree he does not), but whether he satisfies WP:GNG. We contend that the significant, nontrivial, verifiable coverage he has received from independent, national sources (MLB, ESPN, Baseball Prospectus, Baseball America, etc.) satisfy this criterion. For what it's worth I disagree with the decision to delete Machado's article for these same reasons, but that is not relevant here. Mickeyg13 (talk) 16:44, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep - There is enough coverage in reliable sources to establish notability per WP:GNG. The standards of WP:ATHLETE do not supersede GNG. P. D. Cook Talk to me! 16:15, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep WP:ATHLETE is not a hard and fast rule to be slavishly adhered to, this is a good example of why. Eliteimp (talk) 16:37, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep Meets WP:GNG despite failing WP:ATH. --Brian Halvorsen (talk) 05:42, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete. He hasn't even signed yet. Rigth now he's just a high school pitcher who got drafted. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 21:38, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- That's not an argument. Yes we all know that he is not yet a professional athlete. Nonetheless he has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, so by WP:GNG he qualifies for an article. Specifically:
- "Significant Coverage": He received pre-draft coverage in the following links referenced on his page: [8], [9], [10], [11], [12], and [13]. Post-draft he received the following coverage: [14], [15], [16], and [17].
- "Reliable sources": ESPN, MLB, Baseball America, and Baseball Prospectus are among the most reliable sources available for baseball content. If they don't count as reliable sources for baseball then I have no idea what does and would love to be educated about it. I think the other links also count (Fangraphs is very well-respected in sabermetric circles for instance), but I'm more certain about ESPN, MLB, BA, and BP.
- Independent of the subject": The aforementioned sources have no affiliation with Taillon aside from covering baseball. I'd disagree but be willing to listen to an argument discounting the sources from local newspapers or the the team that drafted him, but ESPN, MLB, Baseball America, and Baseball Prospectus are certainly independent.
- So which of the above points do you disagree with? Or do you agree that he satisfies all the criteria for WP:GNG? If he does satisfy WP:GNG, why does he not warrant a page? Mickeyg13 (talk) 23:02, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- That's not an argument. Yes we all know that he is not yet a professional athlete. Nonetheless he has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, so by WP:GNG he qualifies for an article. Specifically:
- Keep Sufficient coverage in reliable sources to show notability. Edward321 (talk) 14:33, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. T. Canens (talk) 02:44, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Eric Frimpong (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Only played in amateur football, was drafted without ever playing. As for the criminal case, it is rather an argument against having the article (per WP:BLP) than for having it. Geschichte (talk) 21:19, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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- Delete - fails WP:ATHLETE and WP:GNG. GiantSnowman 21:06, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep - I'd keep it. There has been a LOT of non-trivial press coverage of this case in the soccer media, as well as in the Southern California local press because of the apparent mishandling of the case from the Santa Barbara cops, lawyers, judge and jury. He most definitely passes WP:GNG from that standpoint alone - the fact that he is also a soccer player is secondary to the issues surrounding his trial and subsequent unsafe conviction. --JonBroxton (talk) 07:30, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep - he may fail WP:ATHLETE, but the significant coverage surrounding his trial means he passes WP:GNG. Sir Sputnik (talk) 21:03, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:08, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply] - Delete: as for his football/soccer career, he clearly fails WP:ATHLETE and WP:FOOTY/N; as for the rape conviction, he seems to fail WP:NTEMP as well. — Luxic (talk) 12:41, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete Non-notable from a sports perspective, failing WP:ATHLETE having not played at a notable level, and no in-depth independent coverage. Rape conviction is not notable, NTEMP, and nothing particularly significant. I don't see anything encyclopedia worthy about an average rape case.--ClubOranjeT 07:08, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete a classic WP:BLP1E. Lustralaustral (talk) 00:54, 29 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete. Sports-wise, he hasn't achieved anything of note or played at a professional level, so he fails WP:ATHLETE. The only news coverage he has received is for the rape case, which means the subject also fails WP:ONEVENT. Bettia (talk) 15:52, 29 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keeep Person has received international headlines because of his high profile court case and the lack of evidence before his conviction, I don't follow US football and know who he is. He meets the WP:Notable criteria in my opinion. TheBigJagielka (talk) 17:33, 29 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. T. Canens (talk) 02:42, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Marsel Efroimski (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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not sure if WP:ATHLETE applies to chess players but simply being an under 14 world champion should not mean notability. does not extensive coverage [18]. LibStar (talk) 07:20, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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- Keep Appears in enough sources to convince me of notability. (Also see this and other sources.) Undead Warrior (talk) 03:12, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete her ratings do not suggest that she is one of the best chess players in the world. -Drdisque (talk) 14:12, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:03, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete No significant coverage of this individual from reliable independent sources. Lustralaustral (talk) 00:51, 29 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 00:57, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Aston Taminsyah (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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not sure if WP:ATHLETE applies to chess. not simply being an under 7 world champion should not guarantee you notability. fails the greater WP:BIO with no extensive recognition [19]. LibStar (talk) 06:58, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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- Delete per nomination rationale. Lustralaustral (talk) 00:49, 29 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Keep ---Balloonman NO! I'm Spartacus! 02:48, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Fabiano Scherner (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Does not cite any reliable sources. Contested PROD. — Jeff G. ツ 03:38, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Note Google turns up just over 900 results on a search for Fabiano "Pega-Leve" Scherner. Some of these sources seem to be respected within MMA circles, but I won't make any claim to kow this for sure, or claim that they defintely do stand up as reliable resources. Darigan (talk) 11:10, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Some links on article talk page Darigan (talk) 11:13, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep Subject has multiple fights in high level promotions (UFC and IFC) make him notable, IMO. The article does need a lot of cleanup, removal of "rumors" and most especially references added. --TreyGeek (talk) 13:43, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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- Keep - not the most comfortable keep ever, but the fighter does JUST make WP:MMANOT on the organisational level. Is worth noting that the fighter has competed against a handful of really notable fighters. Paralympiakos (talk) 23:17, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Just a p.s., I'm watchlisting him (can't believe I hadn't before) and will go about sourcing/cleanup once safety is confirmed (don't want a load of unneeded deleted edits). Paralympiakos (talk) 23:36, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep – It's difficult to determine at what point an MMA competitor is notable since there are so many organizations, many of them at a minor level. Reminds me of boxing, with its many titles, only a few of which are really important. In this case, I believe that given his UFC appearances, the subject is notable under WP:ATHLETE. I wouldn't make that argument for fighters who've only competed in low-level promotions, but the UFC is the highest level of the sport, and multiple appearances there (including one on a main card) are enough to convince me of his notability. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 00:24, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Article has also been tagged as an unreferenced BLP. Personally, I think he's just short of notability according to a strict reading of WP:MMANOT. However, if his world championships in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu can be sourced, then he's clearly notable. Papaursa (talk) 02:04, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Weak keep. Can't take a position on whether he meets the WP:MMANOT or more general WP:ATHLETE standard, but the Google News numbers (and the sources listed therein) may be enough to meet the general notability guidelines.--PinkBull 01:57, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. He played at the highest level of the sport. (curling) therefore passing WP:ATHLETE NativeForeigner Talk/Contribs 00:36, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Jimmy Carroll (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Subject does not meet WP:BIO. Provided references are not establishing notability and are profiles of the person on not reliable sources. Former Speedy A7 was declined by the author. — Zhernovoi (talk) 20:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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- Question - What is considered the highest level of competition in hurling? I have no knowledge of hurling at all, and to me this question is very important for determining the notability of this person. If one or both of the leagues he played in were top-level and fully professional, the page would likely meet athlete notability standards. If not, I don't think sufficient notability is established by the sources, though I do note that the first is apparently to an official organization, which may not establish notability but is not necessarily unreliable. Again, my lack of knowledge of the sport precludes me from being sure in that regard. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 23:19, 9 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep - Subject has played at inter-county level of hurling in Ireland. Inter-county level is the highest level of competition in hurling, which is an amateur sport with no professional competitions. Thus, subject meets WP:Athlete Criterion 2: People who have competed at the highest amateur level of a sport usually considered to mean the Olympic Games or World Championships. - Teester (talk) 11:10, 12 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
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- Keep - he's nationally notable by our modest provincial standards, but could we have the actual years instead of "1970s and 1980s".Red Hurley (talk) 13:42, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - I don't think every player to ever compete in inter-county hurling is inherently notable. It's paradoxical that the bar for notability should be placed so low simply because hurling is such an obscure sport and no higher levels of play exist. If this individual is or was particularly well known within the hurling community, there should be sources attesting to that fact.Minnowtaur (talk) 06:06, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I understand that. The situation (and see my comments on the AFD below) is that just about everything is notable in Wikipedia:WikiProject Gaelic games that would not be notable otherwise on mainstream wikipedia. If someone were to set up a "WikiProject Irish tiddleywinks", it seems that they can then describe all the players of that amateur sport as notable. I don't know where wikipedia draws the line - does anyone?Red Hurley (talk) 08:51, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep per Teester. Strikehold (talk) 04:38, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was no consensus. T. Canens (talk) 23:26, 28 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Durrell Summers (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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College athlete, fails WP:ATHLETE. No indication of meeting either the general or athlete specific notability requirements. TexasAndroid (talk) 18:29, 7 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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- Keep significant third party coverage apparent in Google news search. Gigs (talk) 01:01, 12 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:01, 14 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep extensive non-trivial third party coverage, thus meets GNG -Drdisque (talk) 01:55, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:01, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Second relist rationale. The article is a BLP. --Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:02, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete An elite-level college basketball program such as Michigan State will garner more than it's fair share of "coverage". Players on these teams will frequently be the subject of "feature" articles for no other reason than their presence on the team. That does not guarantee that the player is notable. There is no indication that this player has won any postseason awards or was picked for All-America status. DarkAudit (talk) 00:34, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- To the contrary - their presence on the team and subsequent extensive media coverage indicates their notability and meeting of WP:GNG. -Drdisque (talk) 03:43, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep - major college players are usually notable. He clearly meets the requirement of significant coverage in reliable sources. --B (talk) 05:41, 26 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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