User talk:Eric Corbett

There are many aspects of Wikipedia's governance that seem to me to be at best ill-considered and at worst corrupt, and little recognition that some things need to change.

I appreciate that there are many good, talented, and honest people here, but there are far too many who are none of those things, concerned only with the status they acquire by doing whatever is required to climb up some greasy pole or other. I'm out of step with the way things are run here, and at best grudgingly tolerated by the children who run this site. I see that as a good thing, although I appreciate that there are others who see it as an excuse to look for any reason to block me, as my log amply demonstrates.

Maniac Mansion

Malleus, if you're in the mood, could you re-visit WP:Featured article candidates/Maniac Mansion/archive1? You opposed on prose a few weeks ago, but it looks like some work has been done to address that. Ucucha (talk) 00:50, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Only fair I suppose. Malleus Fatuorum 00:54, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

I've revisited and made a few further comments at the FAC. Basically I don't think it's improved much, so my oppose still stands. Malleus Fatuorum 01:29, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. Ucucha (talk) 01:36, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

FYI- I made some edits per your comments, but I had some follow up questions. Your input would be appreciated. Thanks. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 15:42, 19 January 2012 (UTC))

Let me know...

... when you are online. I need your help. User:Efe here thinks that "dips in and out" (second paragraph here is informal. Can you suggest a replacement. I explained to him that the term is not informal as my dictionary does not state so in brackets but as you see on the FAC, things are deteriorating. So please tell me if a replacement exists and if no, please help me explain it to him. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 11:23, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

(tps) On reading the phrase, it seems to me what it's describing is her modulation of vibrato. "Dips in and out" gives the impression (to me) that she drops a tone or semi-tone into a note that is trilled and then, as the vibrato diminishes, she drops a further tone/semi-tone. Maybe "passes into and out of" might be better- don't know; you are restricted to what the RS says, so I suppose you can "pass the buck" to the RS. Ning-ning (talk) 11:47, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Thank you very much for replying. In short, you mean I can use "passes into and out of"? The RS says "Beyonce dips in and out of vibrato yelps and trills." Jivesh1205 (Talk) 15:01, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Modulates through? Pesky (talk …stalk!) 15:53, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, I don't understand. Lol. Do you mean I can replace it with "modulates thorough"? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 16:11, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Beyonce ornaments her singing with vibrato yelps and trills? (Starting to sound like Monday morning at the vet's…) Ning-ning (talk) 17:54, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. Lol, the second part made laugh though I did not really understand what you meant. Thanks for the help. Much appreciated. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 17:57, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

(od) Vet's - an abbreviation for vetinary surgeon (kind of a doctor for pet animals) Ning-ning (talk) 19:04, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Ahh okay. Actually I am not a native speaker of English. :D Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:07, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Beyonce modulates through vibrato yelps and trills. (And she it still sounds like Monday morning at the vet's ...) Pesky (talk …stalk!) 18:00, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Not sure about modulates- to me it implies a change of key- if she modulates her yelping she'll sound like a puppy in a fast sports car (Doppler effect) Ning-ning (talk) 18:29, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

ArbCom case: Evidence and workshop's analysis section

Hi Team!

I provide evidence and initiated some discussion at the workshop's analysis section, relevant to concerns already raised: Partisanship/double-standards, appearance of hounding, fatuous accusations that are shown to be falsehoods but never withdrawn, smearing of editors (while pursuing other goals), etc.

Spending two days documenting such problems has been labeled "harassment" and threatened with huffing and puffing. Spending two-three months writing an RfC against me, that must have been another expression of the usual "with regrets" tough (Wiki)love.

My other obligations shall keep me busy for the next days.

Good Night, and Good Luck,  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 18:09, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Fing c ?

Has this been incorporated to the Arb Case? I'm unsure of the history, but seems to be relevant. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:04, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Risker asked for only 2011 examples of unaddressed incivility. Karanacs (talk) 16:23, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

I know-- I came across this while searching for my use of "dork" (after being falsely accused for my "dumber than an average bear" edit summaries), and my query is how this (first?) use of the f'ing c relates to the overall case and persecution of Malleus? I don't know the history ... What still hasn't been done is to present all of the times we all saw the double standard employed against Malleus, and I wouldn't know where to find those-- I suppose only Malleus would, but it can be hard to remember where to find evidence when one has been under fire for so long. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:26, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Apropos of nothing in particular, but vaguely on point - my wife's birthday card from her brother this weekend had the charming local (north Wales) Welsh phrase "Penblwydd hapus cont" printed in colourful letters. "Penblwydd hapus" is "happy birthday" and I'll let you guess "cont" yourself. Get your own here (if so inclined). (Not sure he, or my wife, would win any prizes for sending this card to their chapel-going mother on Mothering Sunday: "Mam ora yn y byd" is "best mum in the world", and "ffwcin" is guessable surely once you know that "w" is a vowel in Welsh.) Thought this might amuse briefly. KBO, etc, Malleus, and a belated happy new year. Bencherlite^Talk 17:00, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

chwarddo, innit bro. You sure know how to compliment a gal up in the Gogledd, boyo. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:50, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Well, There We Are Then. ;) Parrot of Doom 17:35, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

So did the Welsh steal English profanities or vice-versa? Reaper Eternal (talk) 17:43, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Grrr, did someone mention the s word?!! Martinevans123 (talk)

I've used the s word several times... it wasn't until I pointed out that it was highly offensive in England that anybody said anything.---Balloonman ^{Poppa Balloon} 20:05, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

I meant that s word that's also a T word. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:39, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

15 January 2011

I've mentioned that it is past the 15th to both clerks and the drafting arbitrator. Fifelfoo (talk) 04:08, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. Curious that none of them seemed to notice. Or care. Malleus Fatuorum 04:11, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Competence beyond competence, civility beyond civility, done hard and seen to be done hard. Fifelfoo (talk) 04:46, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

I know the old saw, "Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence", but in this case I'm finding it hard to see it. All I see is administrators desperately trying to defend their own. Not made any more credible by the fact that all the arbitrators are themselves administrators. If there was ever a recipe for corruption then that's it. Malleus Fatuorum 04:54, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

The arbs and admins are too busy with their student union posturing. Don't expect anything to happen for at least a week. 173.164.243.154 (talk) 05:28, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

They do seem more unprofessional and immature than they were in my active days - and that's saying a lot!  DDStretch  (talk) 12:16, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

(>**)> mega hugz (or, if preferred (o)(o) Suffocation-by-cleavage). I am a sinner! Mea culpa! I posted my evidence after the official close, but it is neither for nor against you, just something I observed while letting my OCD-dragon off his leash in analysis.

@DDStretch ... onoes! You've got to the stage where all policemen look as though they're still in school! ;P Pesky (talk …stalk!) 17:36, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Pesky: Way past that! To me, some of them look like a twinkle in their parents' milkman's eye!  DDStretch  (talk) 08:41, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Pearls of wisdom

Pearls before swine dear boy [1]. Tres witty, but I fear probably wasted here, rather like you. Catherine Rollbacker de Burgh (Lady) (talk) 19:22, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

We're both wasted here. Malleus Fatuorum 19:45, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

That's so true, it would serve them jolly well right if we sailed off into the sunset together on my beautiful yacht. However duty before pleasure and duty demands that we stay, and stay and stay and every day people will know that we are staying. Catherine Rollbacker de Burgh (Lady) (talk) 20:11, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

I think that's a good point. Malleus Fatuorum 20:34, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Oh look the jury's out Well it's a bank holiday tomorrow, but we may well have a decision by Christmas. Giacomo Returned 22:23, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Which year? Malleus Fatuorum 22:28, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

The two of you are always welcome to come and stay in my luxury villa on the Island of Unwelcome Editors. It's an exclusive club, albeit getting less and less exclusive by the day.173.164.243.154 (talk) 01:45, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Hi, friend

I don't know that you and I have ever interacted, apologies if I'm forgetting something. K-Wolf holds you in the highest esteem as a content creator and I've rapidly become a keen listener to what that guy has to say... Then the ongoing ArbCom extravaganza in your honor has put your own personage and views on my radar as well, although I have previously seen your name and opinions now and again on The Bad Site.

So anyway, hello. I've been pondering creating some sort of assemblage of Actual Content Creators with a view to formally hashing out problems and solutions. I'd like to bounce a couple of ideas off you. Drop me an email and let's talk. MutantPop@aol.com. Best regards, —Tim Davenport /// Corvallis, OR (USA) /// Carrite (talk) 19:34, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

It's forbidden to create any grouping here that not everyone is allowed to join; everyone's supposedly equal don'tcha know. Malleus Fatuorum 19:45, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

You mean my coven's going to be disbanded? And the familiars re-homed? And the broomsticks recycled? Noooooooo! Pesky (talk …stalk!) 19:49, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

You've got a coven eh? Now we're cooking with gas! Malleus Fatuorum 20:04, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

There seems to be no problem with creating a Writers' Union.

No matter how many times the distinction between "equal rights and obligations" and "equality" is explained, people just keep on repeating "at Wikipedia, everyone is equal". I can imagine that some of our "editors" drink from toilet bowls if their watchers don't pay attention.

In solidarity,

 Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:02, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

I have strong suspicions that members of the coven hang out in WP:EQUINE ;D Pesky (talk …stalk!) 21:34, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA! As for toilet bowls, On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog. Montanabw^(talk) 00:02, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

See this for what happened last time. The all-knowing Community loathe any suggestion that some editors may be more useful than others, or of a place to have a conversation where every passerby's 2c doesn't need to be treated with Deep Seriousness. 173.164.243.154 (talk) 01:53, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

The once and future current Arb Hersfold voted to close the "Established Editors" project with extreme prejudice, stating "Established editors are no more worthy than new editors". At least Hersfold can walk on his hind legs and probably walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. Imagine what horrific decision would be looming if Panyd and Eluchil (sic) had been elected....  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 13:22, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Ahh, yes – we're allowed to cook with gas in these modern times ;P. Montanabw, be a darling and grab the tongs, would you? ….. Here's something I made earlier:

"Ear of sow and gut of boar,

All the stuff which fell on t'floor,

Snout of gilt, and one black rat

Which drowned on falling in the vat,

Butcher's thumb untimely chop'd

And down into the mincer drop'd,

Piglet's hide and youngling's pizzle

In the sausage spit and sizzle.

Pizzle fizzle, spit and sizzle;

Barbie, if it doesn't drizzle!"

Ketchup, anyone?

(the ketchup has a minor and harmless charm involved:
Clarity, charity, add up to parity;
principle-centred reduces polarity.)

[exit stage left, cackling] Pesky (talk …stalk!) 11:26, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

You should feel honored

At the top of my page there is a banner reading that the English Wikipedia will be blacked out globally to protest SOPA and PIPA... my best guess is that SOPA and PIPA have something to do with your ArbCOM case and the community is going into mourning over any impending loss... ;-)---Balloonman ^{Poppa Balloon} 20:08, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Well I am totally in favour of teaching the Yanks a lesson, but I am sick of that dreadful black thing hovering over all our edits, can no one shoot it down? Catherine Rollbacker de Burgh (Lady) (talk) 20:14, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

"Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn": about SOPA, tomorrow's childish protest, or the outcome of the ArbCom case. The latter in particular will be a reflection on Wikipedia, not on me. Malleus Fatuorum 20:21, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

The editor I feel sorry for is the poor schmuck who's going to have his article as TFA for two consecutive days as a result of the protest. That's a cruel and inhumane punishment. Malleus Fatuorum 20:25, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

He rarely edits during the week so he prob won't be too bothered. And I'm sure people will help with the damage if it gets too trashed. Truthkeeper (talk) 20:31, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

It's all pure spite. Whatever the outcome of this silly trial you can only emerge shining and covered in glory. It was such a ridiculous thing to take the case on; if they wanted rid, a stiletto in the back would have been far more sensible, as they do elsewhere. My dear nephew wanted to be an Arb - once. He would have been so much more clever and so would you. Wikipedia has had it chances and now in a few hours an great darkness is to descend upon us - and why? Supossedly for the freedom of speech. Catherine Rollbacker de Burgh (Lady) (talk) 20:37, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Let's hope SOPA eventually prevails. We can then abandon the current US Wikipedia, as it mires in its own muck, port the current articles over to a proper English Wikipedia with servers outside the US. We can set up a sane administrative structure which enables content editors instead of attacking them, and re-enrol Malleus as editor summa cum laude. It would be a splendid outcome. --Epipelagic (talk) 21:27, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

You're allowed to fork Wikipedia whenever you like. Reaper Eternal (talk) 21:28, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

But it's not easy to get the media from commons as to my knowledge there is no data dumps for it. Regards, SunCreator ^(talk) 23:28, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Ah but Epipelagic, as the US goes, we have this tendency to inspire others. Best remember which nations were part of Oceania. Montanabw^(talk) 00:07, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

I like the idea of a UK Wikipedia, but the truth is it'd be dominated by this lot. Parrot of Doom 00:58, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

I thought those were Europeans, not Brits.VolunteerMarek 02:42, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

I would suggest that we force en-US to split, and retain en.wikipedia for en-001 Fifelfoo (talk) 01:17, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

That's a good video, woteva. Malleus Fatuorum 02:15, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Squillions of words on your arbcom case and not a single humorous backcronym. Very disappointing. In my experience there are plenty of admins who are members of the Council for Unity, Niceness and Transparency. --Surturz (talk) 03:32, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

"You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment". Malleus Fatuorum 03:38, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Stay away from roof tops and journalists; but, most importantly, Parliament. Fifelfoo (talk) 03:43, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

WP:Civility and User Neutrality Taskforce — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.164.243.154 (talk) 03:49, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

11th hour

I was going to mention some 11th hour theatrics regarding the AC case, but it seems that it's now been extended to Friday; perhaps because he was a blocking admin.? It just all seems so melodramatic. But they say they're going to get some work done on it over the weekend. Best of luck Malleus - I honestly do hope it goes well for you. — Ched :  ?  04:20, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Who gives a fuck. Malleus Fatuorum 04:25, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Eh, I do. And Jesus--I read a billboard today that said he loves you. Drmies (talk) 05:23, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

The old ones are the best --ClemRutter (talk) 12:53, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

I give a fuck. But possibly only because there's a nasty word for those who sell them ... Pesky (talk …stalk!) 12:08, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

And so do all those gentle American lady editors who don't like the c word. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:27, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Request

Hi Malleus. I am so happy to be back. I could have dies it this blackout lasted for a week. Can you please have a look at the first two comments by Sandy here. One of them concern the phrase I asked you for help a week ago. It seems perfect to me but Sandy wrote that something is missing. Please have a look whenever you have time. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 05:21, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Wow. That was pretty quick. Speed of light. :D Thanks. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 05:36, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

(Again) Greetings Malleus. Everything is going fine at the FAC. And thanks for everything you have done. Today, Sandy left a few comments which you and I have addressed and she is satisfied with the corrections we made. Nevertheless, she is asking for another look at the article because she thinks the prose is still not satisfactory at places. I read the article again and did my level best (please see history of "Halo"). I request you to please take a final glance at the article and see if there is anything you think could be better. Please. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 15:49, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry, events have overtaken us, or at least they've overtaken me. Malleus Fatuorum 04:16, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

It does not matter. I understand. Malleus, the prose is actually stable since the copy-edits were done. :D But I don't understand completely what is happening right now. Anyway my friend, take care. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 04:56, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Prosperity Theology at FAC

Hi Malleus, I hope that you are doing well. Another editor and I have recently nominated Prosperity theology at featured article candidates. It's the first time I've brought an article there. I followed the page for a while to see what I could expect, and I was impressed with the quality of your reviews. I know that you have very limited time these days, but I'd love if you could take a look at the article. I think the prose quality is in good shape, but you have a better eye for that than I do. You might find the article interesting, it's one of those unconventional American religious movements that has started spreading across the world. Mark Arsten (talk) 19:41, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

My time here may be more limited than you realise.[2]. I'm not going to start work on anything else until there's some kind of resolution that's satisfactory to me. And if that's not forthcoming ... Malleus Fatuorum 19:50, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

That's understandable, thanks anyway. I hope that common sense prevails in the case, but as the expression goes, common sense is not very common around here. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:06, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Signing out now

I'm signing out now until ArbCom have deliberated. "I may be gone some time." Malleus Fatuorum 01:08, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

It doesn't work that way, Malleus ... as they put up Proposals, feedback is still considered. This business of "no more evidence" isn't the way it works-- they don't ignore things that come forward as they put up proposed findings. By the way, your case is poorly presented. WAY too much to read, but I don't believe anyone ever showed the number of times a double standard was employed at ANI or RFA, I don't believe anyone showed how often you were baited, and the arbs can only go on what is given to them. They weren't given enough. And I was too busy dealing with you-know-what and you-know-who over there at you-know-where, so what'rya gonna do? We can't do it all, but the case was too much to keep up with, and I don't believe the arbs were given the evidence they needed. I can't work on documenting admin abuse and double standards at the same time FAC is being politicized. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:12, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps, but I've had enough of the arguments and abuse. Let the Arbs make of it what they will. Malleus Fatuorum 01:16, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Goodness, I hope your dog doesn't die or your basement doesn't flood :) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:19, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Actually my basement has just flooded, how prescient of you. I had my central heating boiler changed just before Christmas, and it drained into the same plumbing that the washing machine did. But the arseholes used a 45 degree connector rather than a 90 degree connector and didn't even fit that right. Malleus Fatuorum 01:26, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Heh... That was a bit of a screw-up! Barts1a / What did I actually do right? / What did I do wrong this time? 01:28, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Well, the Culligan Man failed to hook up the cannisters correctly once in my basement, left something hugely leaking, and when I came downstairs a week later ... take care, there. Wet basements are As Awful As It Gets. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:29, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I'm not sure what Culligan Man means, but if it means what I think it does it can beat that. A friend of ours in London often used to find his neighbour's number twos in the lake beneath his house. Malleus Fatuorum 01:50, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I hope the arbs can draw something good out of the mess. Meanwhile, good luck with the plumbing, and much appreciation for the edits and comments re MOO2. Geometry guy 01:47, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I don't care what happens to me, I can take care of myself, but Philcha needs and deserves our help. Malleus Fatuorum 01:52, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I know you can take care of yourself, but I among many care what happens here, not least because of your willingness to help others like Philcha. All helping each other is the way Wikipedia should be. Geometry guy 02:01, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Historically the arbs have given the appearance that they act on broad, general impressions rather than careful assessment of detailed evidence. This is especially true in complex cases such as this one. For example in the leaked arbcom emails relating to the climate change case one of them said "let's decide who we want to sanction and I'll find the diffs to justify it" or words to that effect. So I wouldn't feel too bad about not having put together complete evidence in polished form. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 01:55, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict) x 2. Your CH drained into the same plumbing as your washing machine? Summat wrong there, regardless of the connector. And since both are presumably pumped systems, it makes no odds whether the thing was 45 or 90. Learn Polish and find yourself a decent plumber. - Sitush (talk) 01:56, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I've had Polish builders. Never again. Malleus Fatuorum 02:03, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I intended to add a "<g>" to that, sorry. Honestly, though, in all my plumbing experience - which is fairly considerable - I've never known those two be interconnected. Yours must be a peculiar arrangement and, as I said, the shape of the connector will make no odds. The idea that something might siphon from the WM outlet to the CH boiler (which is what "drained" implies) is truly scary ... and if your point is that the WM is drawing HW from your CH then it really makes no odds whether it is 45, 90, 135 etc. Anyway, drop me an email if you get stuck - I have the feeling that we are not too far apart, I have no work on & while plumbing is not my job, I've done a lot of it. No charge, Malleus, no charge! - Sitush (talk) 02:12, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

The problem is a very simple one, and easily solved. The new connection was incorrectly plumbed in. Malleus Fatuorum 02:25, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

probably a teenage WP admin did it ... sorry ... I needed to smile at the moment. — Ched :  ?  03:13, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I think that Arcom's pronouncements may be seminal. In fact I'm sure they will be, in one way or another. Malleus Fatuorum 03:26, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I just hope they are fully aware of what the offspring may be before they give birth. I'm not sticking around to help raise some demon spawn. — Ched :  ?  03:31, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Let's wait and see if you're given the choice. Malleus Fatuorum 03:37, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

me personally - it'll be MY choice. I do what I damned well please in life. I'll be nice and civil about it, but if I don't like what's being shoveled my way .. I'll walk. I'm pretty sure you can relate to that sentiment.  :) — Ched :  ?  03:54, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

All I can say it that for me at least this is a seminal moment. The rest of you may make your own minds up. Malleus Fatuorum 04:02, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Me being me, I will continue to have hopes that the wiki may get something thoughtful, insightful, innovative and (most of all) scrupulously fair out of this. Teh Arbs have the opportunity here to make an enormous difference, and one which needs to be made if this project is not going to turn into an example of how not to do something in this respect. Bad laws, ill-defined, nebulous interpret-and-apply how you will, have always, always ended up causing chaos and harm, and bringing the system in which they appear into disrepute. There is an outstanding opportunity to be grabbed - let's just hope they have the sense and courage to grab it.

Meanwhile, don't drop right of touch, please! I have a couple of articles I'd like to work up to FA ..... Pesky (talk …stalk!) 07:36, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Do you have any idea how much work an FA is, even for superstars like me? ;-) Malleus Fatuorum 21:04, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I do... I went through the hell twice (once as a primary and once in a supporting role) I also tried to become a regular there, but quickly discovered that I wasn't anal enough about English and WP MOS to be a good FA reviewer. My hats off to those who are good editors in that regard.---Balloonman ^{Poppa Balloon} 05:26, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

I've read through a heap of FAC wossnames, and seen the kind of things which go on in that elite little cavern. My come-back article (History of the horse in Britain) was funny; I'd never even heard of DYK and GA until I sent that page live and someone (I think it was Kim van der Linde) suggested it should go through both of them! At the time, of course, I had absolutely no idea how many hits a DYK usually got, so had trouble understanding what the big deal was when it got several thousand ;P Such a noob! That one, I really want to get some long-history stuff on saddlery and harness making, and farriery, and treatment of disease into the article. I don't feel, at the moment, that it covers enough of the broad history without those very important aspects in there, but the trouble (as always) is in finding the darned information to put there! But, once I;ve found and added the stuff I want, I'd like to send it off to FAC; and nothing stopping what's there from being brought up to scratch in the meantime. The Meermin slave mutiny wasn't mine, to begin with, I just hijacked it (re-homed it?); too late for a DYK, as I found it at the tail end of new pages, but it GA'd happily, and I'd like to bring that up to FA as well. I have a Google alert for any recent news on the archaeology project, as I'd love to get that into the end of the article at some point. There's a lack of closure there which is entirely due to circumstances beyond my control, and which frustrates the hell out of me! Again, nothing stopping what's there already from being polished up. Feel free to play with those to take your mind off the other stuff! Pesky (talk …stalk!) 11:26, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Wrapping Up

We are wrapping up the project and heading south for the winter. The essential piece to the projects success is collaboration. My students were fortunate to have such an outstanding editor willing to express an interest in their work. That was the catalyst that keep them engaged. Your patience, tolerance, and tact is remarkable. Incidentally, the class has been monitoring this "trial" and very much wanted to weigh in on your behalf. I advised them to stay out of the politics; but know, you have both theirs an my support. On another note, I am unable to allocate the time to effectively monitor the students second semester. One or two have expressed an interest in an FA attempt; although I am not offering any academic incentives. There will be no 2012 Project... I've decided to pack-up the podium. I had hoped someone in the English Department would step in; however, they have heard me rant and rave for the last 4 years thus will not take the bait. I plan some post project analysis as promised to gain insight on reasonable student to mentor ratios to help those mentoring such projects determine a reasonable balance. Hopefully, I will not be the last high school to give this a go. Again, on behalf of a backwater high school on the edge of no-where, our sincere expression of appreciation.--JimmyButler (talk) 20:18, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Wish you had posted the above as a piece of evidence on behalf of your class. While I appreciate and think the guidance for the class not to get involved, I do think it could have been meaningful to have you represent the class in a comment. But alas, this is why I think Malleus is of benefit to the project. He can be a rude SOB when somebody gets on his bad side, but the perponderance of his edits are to improve the project. I have zero doubt that he wants to improve WP.---Balloonman ^{Poppa Balloon} 20:37, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm rather touched by the idea of your students wanting to get stuck in on my behalf, but you were quite right to dissuade them. I think that what you and they have achieved is quite remarkable, perhaps particularly this last year. If I survive this ordeal I'll be more than happy to help any of them who fancy tilting at an FAC, and if I don't, well, at least we achieved something worthwhile. And Balloonman, you are of course quite right, I can give at least as good as I get, and no matter what ArbCom decides I'm not going to change. It's Wikipedia that has to change, not me. Malleus Fatuorum 20:52, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

And Balloonman, why the "alas" in your observation? Sounds like you still want to get rid of me. Malleus Fatuorum 20:58, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

No it was because he didn't make the comments and at this point it is too late for him to do so... I just hope that some Arbs are watching this page and see his comments, because this is the type of thing that you don't get credit for.---Balloonman ^{Poppa Balloon} 05:24, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

It is a shame that at least that project's co-ordinator couldn't put that in as evidence, even if the students themselves were best left out of it. Malleus, having trawled through waaaay too many of your edits, I have to say that it seems extremely rare (negligibly rare) for you to snark without provocation, though the provocation may not necessarily be immediately apparent to people looking at just one or two surrounding edits. In terms of percentages, I truly don't believe that your snark-percentage is any worse that that of several other of our less-patient editors, though clearly if I could provide you with some anti-snark magic I would gladly do so! I understand why you snark, when you you do; at the same time I also understand why it would be better (mainly for you!) if your internal snark-monster were a bit less trigger-happy ;P Pesky (talk …stalk!) 12:05, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

I could use a bit of that snark-dust myself. MF, good luck to you in hopes of a fair outcome. My76Strat (talk) 12:11, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

The times I've found myself wishing for some anti-snark pixie-dust in my dealings with mother! I feel I need do no more than to point out the background of professional actress-singer-dancer, high intelligence, occasionally-violent dementia, and to add to the delightful cocktail stir in the fact that we're functioning down / up at the red-headed women region of the feistiness spectrum, and I can leave the rest to your imaginations! Fortunately, she only weighs about five and a half stone, so despite having Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome and hence extraordinarily supple, though she can be a right handful, at least she can't (literally) throw her weight about too uncontrollably! Pesky (talk …stalk!) 13:11, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

O_O ... Facepalm ... ok ... now I've seen it all. — Ched :  ?  15:00, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Oh malleus, about the "Alas" comment... I think you might find the following edit of interest [3] Notice the date of the edit too...---Balloonman ^{Poppa Balloon} 02:33, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Thought you'd appreciate this

Do a Google search for "Define an English person". Does this mean we have to blacklist Google for incivility? 209.137.146.50 (talk) 21:27, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

"English person" here (and a quinquagenarian and female, to boot) ... ROFLMFAO! Pesky (talk …stalk!) 21:35, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

With regards to Malleus's Doric roots, it's worth pointing out that "Define a Scottish person" isn't much more civil. 209.137.146.50 (talk) 21:40, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Sorry to spoil all the fun, but it comes up with that because Google tries to be clever and includes "definition" as an auto-alternative for "define", looks for "English" and "person" with it; all those words appear on the relevant page. Then Google searches for which page with those words has the most links to it - and there ya go! Pesky (talk …stalk!) 21:46, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

And "American" as an alternative brings up "International traffic in arms regulations" in second place. Ahem. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 21:48, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Intention to cause offence is irrelevant, if anyone takes offence for any reason that makes it 'incivil' and it's time to fetch the tar and feathers. Or are you suggesting that Wikipedia's civility policy breaks down when confronted with reality? I do hope not. 209.137.146.50 (talk) 21:54, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

[much clearing of throat ...] Uncivil, pleeeease! ;P Pesky (talk …stalk!) 22:08, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

"Incivil" has been an accepted form for at least 98 years. Don't believe everything Lara tells you. 209.137.146.50 (talk) 22:19, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

OMFG ROFLMAFAOYSST Is it too late to add evidence to the case? I mean... this sheds an entirely different light on the case! Best "glitch" evar!---Balloonman ^{Poppa Balloon} 22:16, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

I also find this telling. I'd share a thought but find my two cents is regarded as nonnegotiable coinage around here (and I mean this as across Wikipedia) Even my motives are perceived malign. A certain amount is related to misunderstanding, I believe! The rest, and larger part, are my shortcomings; manifest. With that I'll preclude the rest. I can't even think of a salutation that wouldn't sound like it was straight out of a cunt, but generally would close with sincerely, or best regards. At this point I think I understand why most people simply end their comment without regards. It's one less thing to have questioned, or have to defend. My76Strat (talk) 22:30, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Jonathan Allen at Search Engine Watch] (wow, what a site), explains that it's all a case of "Bad Ranking" and that "it takes one to know one"! Whatever can that mean here, to the serried ranks of lowly and polite English wiki editors? Still, much hetter, I'm sure, than Chaque amoor fi na né - ITAR ITAR, na ney! Martinevans123 (talk) 22:44, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

@Pesky: Only a quinquagenarian? Sexagenarian here. I win! --Senra (talk) 22:52, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Good grief, Senra! I had you "pegged" as thirty-something! The virtual world is a very strange place.

@My76Strat; that's sad, what you wrote. In my obsessive-compulsive readings through all the links in the ArbCom case, and my head-bumping with Wikidemon, and the case I was involved in myself, and so many other things I've read through as "background research", it strikes me very strongly that a huge percentage of these spats and tiffs and so on seem to start from common-or-garden misunderstandings, misinterpretations of what "the other side" meant, being triggered off into a row by failure on one side or another (or both / all) to assume good faith. In some cases, of course, it's well-nigh impossible to assume any good faith at all, but I re-scripted, in my mind, almost everything I analysed in depth, and realised that if one / both / all parties had assumed good faith early on, almost every scenario would have played out differently. It's part and parcel of the human psyche / intellectual processes to categorise and classify things; to put labels on things and people. (And without that hard-wired into us, we would never have developed language.) But in a virtual world, where we have no non-verbal cues, and we don't know each other, it's so easy to get that process wrong, and all hell ensues. Another thing I noticed: almost everyone I encounter here in Wikiland, above teens age, seems to have come here already damaged in one way or another. Were we all the misfit kid who got picked on and bullied at school, or something? I see so much old hurt and scar tissue, wherever I look. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 09:44, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes. But I take my revenge by bullying people here, except the bigger bullies like Malleus! 13:15, 22 January 2012 (UTC)Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk)

Bullying is a strange admmission for an admin, coupled with a personal attack, "bigger bullies". Can you substantiate that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.179.136.222 (talk) 14:09, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Heh! I don't perceive Malleus as a bully – rather more like the slightly-wounded badger which one approaches with good intent but due caution! I may be completely wrong, in which case Malleus is welcome to trout me, but what I'm seeing here is a damage-response, not innate nastiness. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 13:42, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

I've got to admit that Malleus can get a bit cranky when folks get condescending, uppity, or downright stupid; but, any time I've seen anyone approach him with respect, honesty, and dignity - it seems he'll go well out of his way to help. Although now may not be the best of times either. — Ched :  ?  13:45, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Pain, whether physical or emotional, makes all of us ratty. It's "species-normal" across so many species! We can surely make allowances for each other. I'm going to stick my neck out and guesstimate the average editor-age on this page at late-forties, minimum ;P If we're teenagers, we're in the "umpteen" category, lol! Pesky (talk …stalk!) 13:59, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Pain puts some of us off from wanting to be great content contributors such as reviewing or nominating FACs. So you get yourself a set of tools and wield your power in the nastiest way possible, and even if you don't, as an admin, you're still considered to be one of the nasties (by some...). Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 14:16, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Nah, I'm never gonna be a Nadmin! I've come to the conclusion that I'm probably the Civility Police Dog, and quite happy to play with the tug-toy, no matter who is on the other end, provided that they're playful ;P Pesky (talk …stalk!) 14:22, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

"woof" .. :-) — Ched :  ?  14:41, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

[Pesky dips and folds ears politely, does the wrinkly-nose wolfly grin, and spins, chasing tail ...] Pesky (talk …stalk!) 14:48, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Peer review of Pope John Paul II

Hi Malleus, I thought you might be interested in participating in this peer review. Kind Regards -- Marek.69 ^talk 01:14, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Hi Malleus, do you have any comments on the article? -- Marek.69 ^talk 09:04, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm afraid not. Malleus Fatuorum 16:49, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

OK, thank you Malleus. :-) -- Marek.69 ^talk 18:59, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

If you're still knocking about...

Pain fitzJohn could use your wonderful massaging powers. (Wonder if that'll get Moni over here making comments...). Baldwin will hit FAC soon, hopefully this week, but RL has been biting my butt all weekend. At one point, I even exclaimed "Bloody hell" .. which tells me Im either watching too much BBC or I've been hanging around Brits too long... Ealdgyth - Talk 00:10, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Ooooh, can I have your wonderful massaging powers, too, please? ;P Pesky (talk …stalk!) 08:20, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm afraid I tend to be a bit on the rough side, so I'm told. I watched a rather interesting programme on BBC4 last night, which you may have seen, "Survivors: lust for life". It's about a female documentary director from Rochdale who goes into hospital for a routine thyroid operation only to be told a few weeks later that she's got cancer. It's basically about how she, her family and her friends deal with that bombshell. It's got a happy ending, at least for her, but if you can access it via the BBC's iPlayer just count the number of times she says "fucking this", or "fucking that". She draws up a bucket list, and towards the end of the film she leaves a message to her cancer: "Bugger off!". The link is here, but I guess it'll only work if you're in the UK. Malleus Fatuorum 21:15, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Barbara Ehrenreich wrote another great piece, "Welcome to Cancerland", about her experiences as a breast-cancer patient, which she turned into another great book:

• Bright-sided: How the Relentless Promotion of Positive Thinking Has Undermined America (2009). In the United Kingdom this book is called Smile Or Die: How Positive Thinking Fooled America and the World 9 January 2010 Guardian/UK

Barbara (Ph.D., biology, Rockefeller U.) would last about one day here before the civility police indef'ed her.

Malleus, you should write a book based on your experiences here. It could be made into a movie co-directed by Christopher Noland and Tim Burton.  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 22:35, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Amusing

Given all the uproar over language and other "civility" issues, I thought you might appreciate that I just got called "uncivil" for writing an edit summary that said: "Sentence structure, people, please" after correcting some very strange grammar. Deary, deary me. I know I have a long way to go before I'm in your league, Malleus, but apparently I'm well on my way.--TEHodson 00:46, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

The situation here is crazy and self-destructive. Wikipedia has to try and deal with it, but inevitably it won't. Malleus Fatuorum 01:19, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

As the valley girls would say: "fer shure, fer shure". Wiki never really solves anything, the power cliques just push people aroundPumpkinSky talk 01:23, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

A recent quote reminded me of your situation:

"When a true genius appears in this world, you may know him by this sign,

{{{1}}}that the dunces are all against him."

I know that you will not be able to accept the title of genius, you are indeed too modest, but nonetheless - it isn't what you say/do/are, its what people think you said/did/are that matters. Chaosdruid (talk) 03:24, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Old-fashioned traditional British eccentric, I think ;) And clearly not lacking in smarts, either. And quite probably, technically, at the genius level, if one believes in levels. What I want to know is whether MF has the regulation tweed jacket with leather elbow-patches, the pipe, and the Nutty Professor Hair. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 08:09, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

No tweed jacket, I don't smoke, and my hair veers between the style of a defendant and a prosecuting barrister, as I'm an irregular visitor to my barber. Malleus Fatuorum 15:10, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

[chuckles] My hair ... well ... it's hair, is about the best I can say of it! You know those people who complain about having a double crown? They're lucky. Try seven for a real pig's ear! Nutty Professor Hair would be a humungous improvement, for me. And I haz a tweed jacket :o) It's the horsey variety! Pesky (talk …stalk!) 17:07, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Kudpung's latest baiting of Malleus

A thought for you!

Well, at least it's a novel approach to achieving Kudpung's evident goal of eliminating all opposition at every RfA. - Malleus Fatuorum The only thing I would like to eliminate from Wikipedia is MF's novel approach to communication. If he wants to offend to make offence a skill, it's a bit late to redeem time when men think least he will. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:21, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Discussion of Kudpung's passive-aggressive baiting

There are far worse people; probably just not so high-profile. Trouble is, once someone's become high-profile, they're an obvious target. People notice Malleus because he's Malleus; they pick up on and react to things which they would ignore in other people. Sad, but true. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 09:49, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

And you're saying MF doesn't have targets? Thing is, he aims when they're not looking. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:55, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

And you do have targets, one of which is obviously MF. A pointy message on MF's talkpage disguised as a wikilove message could be described as baiting. Not very nice under the circumstances, certainly appalling for an admin.J3Mrs (talk) 10:04, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Yuk --Epipelagic (talk) 11:00, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Kudpung just blamed Malleus for driving away "another editor/admin" today on Pesky's talk page, with no evidence, per his usual m.o.

Attacking his betters and enabling other mediocrities gives him purpose.  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 11:55, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Purpose? I see him mainly advocating that any presumptuous content editor who makes a constructive criticism of any administrator or administrator wannabee, or of the process of electing an administrator, or worse, has the gall to offer a constructive alternative to the current administration structure, should be blocked. It seems to me that if Kudpung has his way, all development on Wikipedia would cease, and all content editors, worthless as they are, would join together in reverential worship of the current administrators. I naturally hasten to add, in this fraught environment, that this observation does not in any sense imply a criticism, and is merely a detached observation. --Epipelagic (talk) 12:56, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Presumably Kudpung is referring to himself? If so, a net gain for the project I think. Malleus Fatuorum 15:04, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

• From what I can read of "export beer" I wouldn't suggest that this was "disguised as a wikilove message." Your tastes in beer and backhanded insults may vary. Fifelfoo (talk) 12:23, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

• The slogan "Hey kids, let's put on a show" was more successful than Kudpung et alia's announcement of RfA Deform---a plan to grab power from writers and give it to babes in arms, users with short records of negligible writing. Sycophantic suggestions that the talk-page missives of Jimbo Wales were "essential reading" inspired confidence proportional to Jimbo's editing, i.e. little.

  May Kudpung return from his Wikipedia vacation more mindful of Johnny One Note, who

  sang out with gusto

  and just o-

  -verloaded the place.

  Poor Johnny one-note

  yelled willy nilly

  Until he was blue in the face,

  For holding one note was his ace.

  Couldn’t hear the brass,

  Couldn’t hear the drum,

  He was in a class

  By himself, by gum!"

  Johnny One Note needed help from those who could listen to the brass, the drum, and the audience---those who were not musically autistic. Perhaps those with a painful record of mistaking the talk pages at RfA Deform and user:Jimbo Wales for community will should get help from those who are not politically autistic.

  Sincerely,  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 13:26, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

• I want that magic wand of niceness. It's a bit sad; I've always got on very well with Kudpung. His heart is very much in the right place. I think the trouble with Wikiland is that none of us can get together for a beer – thing would be very different, I think, if we knew who each other were. That's probably grammatically incorrect, but y'all know what I mean. You never know, we might actually find we liked a few more people. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 17:03, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

• Do you have an explanation for his misleading and slanderous posting here? Malleus Fatuorum 17:15, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

I have no idea what the background to this is. It seems a bit out of character, to me. One of the major points of RfA Reform was to discourage people from nomming themselves, or accepting a nomination, if they really weren't ready for adminship. One of the best ways to cut down the snark in that snarkfest would be to ensure that the snarkworthy weren't nominated in the first place, heh! Kudpung's never (AFAIK) been pro-baby-admins himself. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 17:19, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Let me suggest the background to you; ArbCom are deliberating this week and Kudpung has seized an opportunity to tighten the screw by propagating the lie that I am driving editors away. Malleus Fatuorum 17:28, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Surely, now that the ArbCom is in "closed session" no furher evidence, whether accurate or not, can even be considered. So this is a complete distraction. Even further actual "incivility" would need to be wholly discounted from current deliberations? 31.52.180.236 (talk) 18:47, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

If you think the Arbs are blind to this page and those of others, you are somewhat niave. While the official evidence presentation phase is over, I have zero doubt that some are watching this page (and other involved editors). Not necessarily because they are collecting evidence, but because they might have various user pages watched. I also have zero doubt that some are reading the tea leafs to see which way the wind is blowing.---Balloonman ^{Poppa Balloon} 19:56, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

I somewhat doubt that any alleged incivility from me will be ignored, but no doubt it will be from the saintly Kudpung. Malleus Fatuorum 18:55, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Saint Kud of Pung, as he is known, allegedly. 31.52.180.236 (talk) 19:19, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

What does that mean? "Pung" is Swedish for scrotum and purse. Is "Kud" supposed to be a homonym for "cud".  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 11:28, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

My comment led to a threat or contemplation of a block from Blade of the North. Medium drama, not even medium rare.  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 19:12, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Just another example of the hypocrisy shown in this place, by rights the civility police should have swooped by now. But when it's one of their own.......J3Mrs (talk) 19:28, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Without any realistic evidence to suggest that you were heavily involved, I don't think the Arbs would bite on that one. Maybe there's something else going on with him that I'm not aware of. He may just have been doing far too much new-page-patroller monitoring, or something, and burned out a bit. Adding: sometimes, when we're just run down, the stupidest little thing is enough to dishearten us. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 18:01, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

• Please, guys'n'gals, there are enough demons in this world without us creating fresh ones. There are so many explanations possible as to why Kudpung has decided to take a break; it's probably a combination of many factors, most of which we will be unaware of. It saddens me to see y'all talking like this; I've always got on well with Kudpung, and found him to be well-intentioned and with the best interests of t'Wiki at heart. I know other people have seen other sides to him – but humans are complex creatures, and we all have an awful lot of facets. It's wrong in so many ways only to focus on one facet of someone, and when we do that, it just makes us, ourselves, feel worse inside. This is something I've had to fight, within myself, about certain categories of real-life people, for well over ten years (due to real-life issues). I possibly have this worse than the average person, as I suffer from both C-PTSD and OCD, and when I let that dragon out of his cage, I get obsessive, murderous (literally) rage building up. In waking hours, I keep it suppressed, but it surfaces in nightmares and reconstructive flashbacks; ultimately the scariest thing in any of my nightmares is me. I know this territory, and though I've probably experienced it to extremes, its signposts are familiar. Take half an hour to think of a hundred other reasons or combinations of reasons why Kudpung might be needing to take a break. There's no way it's going to be solely-Malleus-induced, or solely-Malleus-oriented. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 10:16, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Oh for goodness sake Kudpung himself said on your page it was due to Malleus. You are directing this at the wrong people.J3Mrs (talk) 10:20, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Hi J3Mrs!

Kudpung wrote that Malleus had driven away another editor, not that Malleus had driven away Kudpung.

Kudpung has previously accused "incivlity at RfA" of depriving WP of worthy administrators, and claimed that privacy prevented him from divulging names of victims. I believe that Kudpung is just continuing "I have a list of names" attacks on Malleus. None of the administrators getting their jollies from doing opposition research against Malleus have ever chastized Kudpung for violating NPA as an administrator.

 Kiefer.Wolfowitz 11:28, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Please don't snarl at me; I mean well, really. I think Kudpung's action/reaction is because of a last-straw thing, really. And remember, when people are hurting or have just had enough of a complex situation, they say (and post) things in the heat of the moment which don't truly represent all their thought processes. I've done it myself; I think we all have. I don't know what brought this on, whether there was any interaction between Malleus and Kudpung immediately prior to this which triggered this, I haven't looked. We all do something stupid sometimes; there are many, many words I've said in the heat of the moment which I wish I could un-say. It's best just to let it go, and reduce the emotional damage by not re-hashing everything and focussing too strongly on it. We can't know everything that's going on in another human being's mind and emotions, and I believe it's vitally important not to pass judgment on anything like this without knowing every scrap of relevant data, and once we know that, still only pass judgment when something is wholly beyond reasonable doubt. If it's reasonable to have doubts, because we don;t know everything, then we shouldn't pass judgment. If we do, it's almost never truly just. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 10:33, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

If someone writes "I'm leaving because of ...." I AGF and believe them. That wasn't a snarl, it was disbelief.J3Mrs (talk) 10:41, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm being over-sensitive (again!) Blame the medical problems, and the meds. I'm sure what he posted was waaaay over-simplified; there's bound to be far more to it than that. Sometimes, we just snap. It's species-normal. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 11:00, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Civility enforcement/Proposed decision

I'm very worried; has one of the half-witted little admins protected this page by mistake? - so that Arbs can't edit it. I think it extraordinary that a group of people so keen to accept a case now seem unable to even post a thought on it. Perhaps it has all been too rushed and hurried. Alternatively, perhaps they have all been stricken with winter vomiting disease or just possibly they are as sick as parrots for being so short sighted and eager to accept the case. One lives here in a state of constant wonder. Giacomo Returned 19:40, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

It all adds to the suspense, and isn't that the point? Malleus Fatuorum 19:46, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Eh, I suspect that just like Sandy advised Malleus to write his defense offline and have it reviewed before posting it, lest it stir unnecessary drahma, that the Arbs in question are probably trying to finalize the wording before posting this case to the proposed decisions page. When we do see something, I pretty much expect it to be a fait accompli---because whatever they propose is going to be criticized by the supporters and detractors of Malleus/civility/etc. This is a high profile case which is going to generate a response. They want to get it right before making it public.---Balloonman ^{Poppa Balloon} 19:50, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

I think they're between a rock and a hard place, but I'm not sympathetic to their plight; they opted against all common sense to accept the case. Malleus Fatuorum 19:55, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

They are definitely between a rock and a hard place... but they accepted that when they accepted the role of Arb.---Balloonman ^{Poppa Balloon} 19:57, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict) On a point of order, they didn't accept the role, they sought the role, by putting themselves forwards as candidates. Malleus Fatuorum 20:11, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

I do hope there are no casualties. (Personally, I voted for more "action adventure"!) Martinevans123 (talk) 20:04, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

• Oh so do I, they have only been elected five minutes - too soon to fall on their swords. It's all very different from in my day. Then, they all used to discuss it on IRC En-Admins and then announce their deliberations. No, Balloonman, you are quite wrong - they are all as sick as green parrots and are squabbling on how to get themselves out of this hole without losing face. It's all very well wanting a sacrificial lamb, but one has to choose a meek littel lamb not a grumpy old bear, otherwise the whole thing all tend to go belly up. Giacomo Returned 20:12, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
• That's a great film, backwards. It's about a one-armed man who finds an arm in some rocks. Parrot of Doom 20:13, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Only have to speak of parrots for one to appear. 20:16, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

• In the Monty Hall problem decision, ArbCom took their time formulating a decision, and did not let their egos get in the way of listening to the mathematical community. In my opinion, their good sense saved them and us from a terrible initial decision.

It would look unfair if ArbCom changed its procedures when dealing with high-profile WP-governance cases, instead of using a method that worked well when dealing with article-conflicts. Even if they do draft a decision behind closed doors, they should still give the community time to comment on a proposed decision. Listening to the community has worked for everybody before.

 Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:51, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I remember Monty Hall only too well. There were some seriously dubious proposals there. Thankfully most of them did not survive their first encounter with reason, but one or two did. Maybe WP:FIVE should appear as the editintro for every Proposed Decision page. Geometry guy 01:46, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Arbcom have specifically said that they're not going to post the proposed decision until 29 January. It seems a bit unfair on them to take them to task for keeping a promise. 209.137.146.50 (talk) 01:41, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Don't bother to wait for the decision - here it is.

• I expect that they are experiencing some form of problem reaching an agreement - the bossy one will be shouting about and the nervous ones having fits of the vapours and one or two droning on off subject and a one other droning on about a subject that no one is quite sure of. Then they will arrive at a face saving result that no one agrees with - I can tell you exactly what it will be - editors will be "reminded" and Malleus wll receive a warning, told he's been extremely naughty and then be topic banned for a year and told to be sweetness and light to all or he will be blocked. Then (need I continue?) Elonka and her mates will arrive en posse to the scene and keep blocking him, he will get cross, I will get cross, Scotty Mac will opine - then Malleus will be unblocked, ANI will be electrified with calls for de-sysopping and we will have a year of needles drama. And why is this? because a lot of silly new arbs don't study history and human behaviour and a lot of people are a little precious and over sensitive. One despairs one really does. Giacomo Returned 08:51, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

You are probably right. A year of "needles" drama sounds painful, but life is full of small pricks. Brianboulton (talk) 09:47, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

[Pesky sniggers] ... but most men don't admit to it ... Pesky (talk …stalk!) 11:01, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Goodness, Giano, you've outdone yourself (again). But I'm wondering if you'll get a talk page warning for evoking the name of she-who-will-not-be-named? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:53, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Who won't be named? Whose name can't I say? Giacomo Returned 17:59, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

If I told 'ya, I'd have to kill 'ya. (I see you don't read *my" talk page <harump>.) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:01, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Oh her! Well we can't live in fear of treading on toes, no matter how beautifully pedicured they are. Giacomo Returned 18:30, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Think not? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:35, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Oh hell! I had no idea that Mrs G had found employment. Incidentally this thread reminds me. I met a man the other day whose ambition was to be an organ peddle under Diane Bish's foot. Don't you think that extraordinary? Giacomo Returned 18:45, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Nice video. Got any more like that? Malleus Fatuorum 19:19, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

A la orden: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7gMkiOPSeA SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:46, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for that, but I'll have to have a cold shower and a lie down now. For me, this is simply the best. Malleus Fatuorum 22:57, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Ingrate. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:59, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

A year of "needles drama" sounds better than two years (but with one single term of 12 months) of "blunt pen-knife drama"? Martinevans123 (talk) 15:53, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

That is indeed pretty much what I expect the outcome to be Giano. Malleus Fatuorum 19:22, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Giano's prediction could be adapted into an excellent "How many Wikipedians does it take to change a light bulb?" joke. One to accuse the light bulb of incivility, another to block MF for it, 20 to agitate at ANI, 5 to start an arbcom case, and so the story unfolds... Geometry guy 11:39, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

You missed one to insist that there is a particular Wiki-way to change a light bulb and that all other methods are wrong (as the Wiki-standard must trump all other methods and conventions). This will generate a flurry of talk page charges and counter-charges (punctuated by breath-holding and fist pounding) before MF somehow gets involved and triggers the other series of events. Note that the "Wiki-standard" light bulb changing debate will continue at the same time.Intothatdarkness (talk) 14:58, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I only just began: see the Star Trek version below! Geometry guy 22:07, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

OK, on that note ... How many Star Trek fans does it take to change a light bulb? (Cookies for the first to answer correctly! And by "correctly", I mean the answer which I have ...) Pesky (talk …stalk!) 11:59, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I don't know, but I assume at some point in the process at least one of them dresses up in a lightbulb costume... --Floquenbeam (talk) 13:50, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Coincidentally, I actually was thinking of a Star Trek light bulb joke when I made my comment above, because Giano's witty post reminded me of the following answer to the question "How many crew members of the Starship Enterprise does it take to change a light bulb?"...

Scotty reports to Captain Kirk that one of the dilithium light bulbs in the engine room is dead. Kirk sends Bones McCoy to mend it, but Bones finds there are no spare light bulbs, adding "Dammit, Jim - I'm a doctor not an electrician!". Scotty says he can keep the engines running for three days at most without light bulbs, because he "cannae change the laws of physics".

Spock scans the sector and notes that the nearest planetary system with light bulb capability is the previously unknown world of Alpha Regula IV, so Kirk orders Sulu to proceed there at maximum warp. On arrival, Kirk beams down with a landing party of Spock, Bones, Sulu and a red-shirt security officer. They are promptly attacked and captured by the primitive inhabitants; the red-shirt is killed in the fight. Meanwhile, in orbit, Chekov must take evasive action to avoid an approaching Klingon warship, which he cannot challenge without new light bulbs.

The native King orders Kirk to fight his best warrior in hand-to-hand combat, whom Kirk defeats by throwing him over his shoulder. The King invites them to negotiate and Bones notices that the King is suffering from chronic indigestion and cures him. The grateful King releases the landing party and offers them all the light bulbs they can carry. Chekov returns to orbit and beams up the landing party. They install the light bulb just in time to save the engines and destroy the Klingon warship.

Kirk records another successful mission in his log, and Spock raises one eyebrow.

We need a version of this for Wikipedia! Geometry guy 22:07, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

FYI, the question "How many Wikipedians does it take to screw in a lightbulb?" was answered back in October. --Floquenbeam (talk) 13:45, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

That's hilarious. Well done.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 15:22, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Brilliant! Made my day :o) Pesky (talk …stalk!) 16:21, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I think the total count is off... shouldn't it be 42? That way we we might finally know the question?---Balloonman ^{Poppa Balloon} 16:32, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I believe 42 is the count over at Citizendium; they're slightly less dysfunctional than we are. However, it takes them 3.5 years to make the change. --Floquenbeam (talk) 16:50, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

fan-freakin-tastic. Laughed my butt off. — Ched :  ?  17:46, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Me too! That was hilarious. --John (talk) 19:11, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Well done!

How many psychologists/therapists/social-workers/WP-Mediation_Committee members does it take to change a lightbulb?

Just one. But first, the lightbulb must want to change ....  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 22:38, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

... and how many Zen masters does it take? (Nope, they won't do it, because change must come from within ;P) Pesky (talk …stalk!) 14:47, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

How many Star Trek fans does it take to change a light bulb? Only a few – and then thousands will write in to complain that it's nothing like as good as the original ... Pesky (talk …stalk!) 15:47, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Catholic church

hello,

in case you are interested in Catholic churches, ping me on my talk page. Regards.--♫GoP♫_T^C_{N 17:09, 24 January 2012 (UTC)}

What makes you think I might be interested in Catholic churches? I haven't set foot inside one for more than 35 years, except I think for a drunken Midnight Mass one Christmas ages ago ... can't really remember too much about that ... Malleus Fatuorum 20:50, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

You should try going, some time, into a proper monastery-attached church for something like Matins and Lauds sung in Latin. Incredible; no other church experience quite has it. I'm not a great church-goer by any means, but there's something really hauntingly timeless about that. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 21:04, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I have, many times. As an adolescent in Scotland there were two monasteries close to the village where I lived, and I was even an altar boy for one of them. They're actually among my best memories of living in that country; my worst is that we were one of only two Catholic families in the village, and the religious abuse had to be seen to be believed. It got to the point that my sister and I had to leave the village school. A few years later my family moved to England, and the change was just incredible. Nobody seemed to care whether we were Catholic or Protestant, they just took the piss out of our Scottish accents, which I haven't quite managed to lose even to this day. Malleus Fatuorum 21:28, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Magical, isn't it? And don't you dare lost that last bit of Scottish accent! Scottish accents are some of the sexiest around ;P I've gathered from others that religious intolerance in Scotland is pretty fierce stuff, but you're right, here in England we're pretty laid-back about it for the most part. When I was a kid, we used to have some very interesting family dinners over at my Grandmother's house, with some very strange assortments of people (my eccentric high-IQ aunt who worked in MI5 had a number of Cardinals on her friends list, and other family friends included various Anglican high-ups, and one rather fierce atheist ... and there was the SOE chappie ... ). They kept coming back, because the dinners were excellent, but it did mean that I and my siblings had a rather off-beat upbringing! But to get back to churches, I miss the Latin. And the music. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 21:40, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I was only a kid when the Church moved from Latin to English, but it was never the same again for me. I thought I'd developed an entirely neutral English accent until one day someone in a class I was teaching asked me where I was from, as they couldn't quite place my accent. I said "guess", and straight away they said "Scotland". I think my tendency to use the word "wee" might have been a clue, and of course there's the ever-present problem of open vs. flat vowels. Is it "grass" as in "ass", or is it "grass" as in ... well you know, how the effete Southerners pronounce it. I tend to flip between the two with uncompromising irregularity. Malleus Fatuorum 21:59, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Scottish accents are some of the sexiest around, are they? Well thanks, I'll bear that in mind, although I prefer English ones. Some, anyway. I gather religious intolerance in Scotland did used to be pretty bad, moreso in the west I think. I'm sorry you have bad memories of living in Scotland, Malleus! We've mellowed out a bit now, I swear. ^OohBunnies! Leave a message :) 21:47, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Arch, the noo, an' it al' fits into place, MF, the noo. If only we had known from the start that what the c-word really meant, all this silly ArbComCiviltyNonsense could have been so easily avoided. In fact, in a Scottish accent, the c-word is almost a compliment, d'y ken tbe noo? Sigmund would have been so proud. Just lie back on that fu**ing couch. ya nippet bampot!! 109.153.195.157 (talk) 22:04, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Ooh, Bunnies! (>**)> Hugzies :o) I just got inspired to add a few bits to an article - wow! I can expand that article, if I'm allowed to use primary sources .... heh! Pesky (talk …stalk!) 21:58, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

The grass thing - if you go halfway house between ass and arse you end up with a kinda New Foresty accent. Like saying "'aystaaack" for "haystack", etc. The West Country has it, more so. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 22:03, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I was living in the west of Scotland, in Ayrshire, and it was pretty unbelievable by today's standards. Malleus Fatuorum 22:05, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Ooh, Ayrshire! At least the countryside there isn't too bad. :) But the whole Protestant/Catholic malarkey used to be pretty horrendous. To compare it to how it is more recently, I went to a Catholic school (although I'm not religious) and, well, no one seemed to give a damn. A better attitude, I think. These days, people don't even bat an eye when the Orange Walk comes to town, except to complain about traffic being held up, naturally. ^OohBunnies! Leave a message :) 22:10, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Ayrshire's pretty. Not as fantabulous as the bits around Crieff, but pretty. Proper church music, the old stuff, in the Latin, is gorgeous. From the Mozart Missa Brevis to the Fauré Requiem; all emotion-inducing stuff. But the bestest, bestest bit of Scotland has to be on Islay where Laphroaig is made ;P Pesky (talk …stalk!) 22:22, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Ayrshire has something far beyond the reach of church music, the Electric Brae. I was fascinated by that as a kid, and still am. Malleus Fatuorum 22:39, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Fascinating! And that article could really make good use of a video. Maybe you should go back there some time and produce one? Pesky (talk …stalk!) 22:48, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

This one might work: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-L3JMk7C1A SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:52, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I love that film! And the production on that number, apparently (or so I'm told) cost more than the rest of the film put together. Best line of the film: "Pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space, coz there's bugger-all down here on Earth". Pesky (talk …stalk!) 22:58, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm a great Monty Python fan, but here's a video of the Electric Brae. Malleus Fatuorum 23:02, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Weird-looking place! Bet it's even more weird on a bike. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 23:05, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

It is, it's a really weird feeling having to pedal hard to go downhill. And the best part of it was that it's on the road to Girvan, where even we kids were allowed to drive motor boats around the lake. A day out at Dunure, the Electric Brae and Girvan, followed by a service at Dankeith or Coodham is just about as close to Heaven as anyone has a right to expect ... dang, they both seem to be red links. Malleus Fatuorum 23:42, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Nice little project for someone there ;P Pesky (talk …stalk!) 08:07, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

• I wonder if you would help improving the prose quality of Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception of the Holy Virgin Mary, as it failed the GAN due to such reasons. If I am not mistaken, you review articles at GAN pretty often, or maybe I am confusing you with someone :P. Regards.♫GoP♫_T^C_{N 16:41, 25 January 2012 (UTC)}

• I used to, but haven't done for a while now. Malleus Fatuorum 16:51, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Try GiacomoReturned - that looks like one he might like. 209.137.146.50 (talk) 17:32, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks! :) --♫GoP♫_T^C_{N 13:30, 30 January 2012 (UTC)}

A barnstar for you!

	The Minor barnstar
	Thanks for your help on Poppy Meadow! MayhemMario 20:53, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I've done nothing really. I think that if you put your shoulder to it and succeed in enlisting the right kind of collaborator(s) you stand a very good chance of success at the next FA nomination, but PR is a very sensible first move. Malleus Fatuorum 20:57, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

If you do send it to PR, please do drop me a line and I'll do my best to offer a review. J Milburn (talk) 23:45, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Waitrose

I'll just leave this here: http://twitpic.com/8bvfl9 Andy Dingley (talk) 18:21, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

To whom it may concern

I've had to temporarily disable my email as I'm switching telephone, broadband provider, and ISP, and until that's sorted in the next week or so (hopefully) I'm reduced to piggy-backing on a friendly neighbour's WiFi connection. So I'm not ignoring anyone. Promise. Malleus Fatuorum 00:21, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

First it's your plumbing now your internet....---Balloonman ^{Poppa Balloon} 02:09, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

All problems with pipes of one kind or another. 209.137.146.50 (talk) 02:29, 27 January 2012 (UTC)note for anyone under 40, in Ye Olden Tymes an internet connection was called a "pipe".

Well I promised you pictures of my new kitchen days ago-- did you get my e-mail recently? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:14, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

No, I didn't. BT have promised that everything should be sorted out by Monday, but we'll see. I look forward to seeing your pictures, might give me some ideas for our own horror. Malleus Fatuorum 02:59, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

You didn't get an email from me that included an inquiry from me about how to open a file? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:51, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Nope. I've had no emails for a week or so now. Malleus Fatuorum 18:08, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

PS to Balloonman: the plumbing still isn't fixed, just had to paddle through yet another mini-flood in the basement. :-( Malleus Fatuorum 03:04, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Re kitchens, I personally recommend a stroll through Ikea. When I moved my parents from London down to here, we had the deep joy of spending someone else's money to rig up the whole house here to store 50 years' worth of accumulated hoarding, and with Ikea handy, it took us about ten days to do the lot, including redecorating throughout and re-carpeting downstairs. Unbelievably easy to assemble and install; styles to suit every taste; bloody excellent value for money. And I'm happy to provide tips on interior design for you – it's something I love doing. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 09:58, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm a big fan of Ikea as well, and in fact I've got a range of their free-standing kitchen units waiting patiently to be installed in our basement. I'm also a big fan of Wickes. We have a flat that we rent out, and inevitably it sometimes gets a little trashed. A couple of years ago we had to refit the entire kitchen, including plumbing and electrics, and we managed to do the lot, including beautiful beech worktops, for just a few hundred pounds. It was hard work though, and I even had to custom-build one of the cabinets myself. I always knew those woodwork lessons at school would come in handy one day. Malleus Fatuorum 14:29, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Malleus, I doubt there will ever be a "right" place to put this comment, I doubt I'm particularly qualified to comment on your talk page, and I seriously doubt that you give two shits about what I have to say - but whatever. I'm very impressed at the way you have handled yourself in the arbitration case, in the way you've tried to keep the focus on what the heck "civility" actually means, and by-and-large not sharpened up any particular axe with another editor's name on it. Is that apostrophe right for the possessive? I honestly have no idea! Five minutes before the blackout, I loaded up the evidence and workshop pages and I must say, you are the calmest and clearest one of the lot, the Malleus whose comments I always do look at on the first go-round. Well done, and I hope the case results in something actually workable for the community, rather than simple findings that such-and-such did this-and-that wrong on then-and-whenever date. In case you see that as a compliment, it wouldn't bother me too much if you get topic-banned from WT:RFA, or maybe topic-banned from making a second comment, I dunno. Have fun with the technology, and the telecom employees who stab away at their consoles trying to get everything set up, and occasionally send a technician out to be sure the actual wires got plugged into the mysterious green box out on the street. :) Franamax (talk) 04:44, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for that Franamax. But believe me, I have lots of sharpened axes just waiting to be deployed appropriately. ;-) Malleus Fatuorum 05:34, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I can see it now: "Malleus just walked around the corner, saw you, threw a little axe at you (which missed), cursed, and ran away." :) Geometry guy 21:45, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

And just for the sake of completeness, a topic ban from WT:RFA wouldn't bother me either; in fact I think everyone ought to be topic banned from that place. Malleus Fatuorum 05:41, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Any community which seeks to silence its critics is following one of history's worst examples, and deserves to be obliterated. Though if we can, as a community, fix it without WikiTimişoara it would be better. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 09:40, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

True, but WT:RFA has got to be just about one of the most useless and impotent pages in the whole of Wikipedia, which is saying something. Malleus Fatuorum 14:21, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I endorse the product and/or service which that comment provides. I try to avoid the place myself, or make as few comments as possible if I feel drawn in. It's interesting reading I grant you, but any attempt at substantive discussion soon enough gets sidetracked by various, ahem, and a multitude of others trying to push their view, rather than trying to pick up any common theme. Hey, if I name myself as a party, do you think I could get topic-banned there too? ;) Franamax (talk) 08:38, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

My new broadband connection won't be installed until next Wednesday, but (no doubt) much to my neighbour's relief I can now use BT's public Wi-Fi service in the interim as there's a local hotspot within range. The good news though is that my new connection will be about half as fast again as my old one at about half the price, taking into account BT's unlimited call deal. Hopefully all of the hassle will be worth it. Malleus Fatuorum 14:21, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Your old connection must have been abysmally slow and expensive… BT had an offer whereby the subscriber pays £150 upfront and gets a £50 discount on their direct debit over the year (or something like that)- domn't know if that's still active. The BT account also includes a "professional" Flickr account (unlimited uploads). Ning-ning (talk) 17:38, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, there is still some kind of discount deal. I forget the details, but it's something like you get one month free line rental every year plus some money back IIRC. Malleus Fatuorum 18:07, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

God help you if you're getting BT broadband, I have it and it usually takes me about 2-3 minutes to open a page. BigDom 17:43, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

My wife has had a BT business broadband connection provided by her employer for a couple of years now, and it's always been very quick and reliable. And I've always had a BT broadband connection, just provided via a third-party ISP. The problem then is that if something goes wrong BT and the ISP tend to blame each other before sorting out the problem. Plus I get separate bills for calls and broadband usage, and no deal on calls. Given the distance to my local exchange and the line quality the maximum speed I can get is 8Mbs, but I was only getting 6Mbs with the wind behind me on a good day. Malleus Fatuorum 18:02, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

2MB/s downloads here on Virgin. It gets doubled later this year too, for free. As for email, just get a Gmail account. Parrot of Doom 23:47, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

We'll see if I really get 8Mbps or not, but having free access to BT's Openzone WiFi network is handy, and in fact that's what I'm using now. As for email, I think I'll do as you suggest and set up a new gmail account, and maybe forward on to it anything sent to my old account. But on the other hand I may just abandon it, as it's really just become a spam magnet. Malleus Fatuorum 01:14, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

I use BT infinity, and get about 4-5MB/s where the server can deliver that, which is not particularly common in my experience. Long Wikipedia pages still can take ages to load (half a minute perhaps): the delay is a server-side issue. Geometry guy 01:54, 28 January 2012 (UTC) PS. Hope you didn't miss the colossal ref above.

Can't get BT infinity here, even though we're only about two miles from the city centre. What colossal ref? Malleus Fatuorum 02:00, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

You will get it eventually (both the optic cable, and the reference to the famous threatening little dwarf above). Geometry guy 02:18, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

And remember you can drop the bird and the birdcage in 2 different places to help you map out the first maze, and you might have to put down the golden eggs to get through the second one. :) If I'm remembering right :)Franamax (talk) 03:06, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Free bird. Alarbus (talk) 06:42, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

I think I tried stomp bird once and got "You are in the low chamber. There is a dead bird here." :) (Malleus, this is just hopelessly geeky kibitzing, sorry) Franamax (talk) 08:17, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Free bird → bird drives away snake. Alarbus (talk) 08:32, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

We use Tiscali/TalkTalk; on the whole it's really good, generally fast (though our router is crap and keeps disconnecting - router's fault, not Tisc/TT). It seemed to be the cheapest over-all, includes line rental and all calls free. Speed usually in the 6-7 mbps range in this area (a bit behind the times, down here!) Off the top of my head, it's £21.50 a month or thereabouts. Been with them for several years. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 09:22, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Hm. I am currently acting as an expert witness in four legal battles vs TT due to connectivity issues. A bargepole is not long enough, at least if you are using them around my bit of the world. - Sitush (talk) 09:30, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Sounds though either I and my family have been very lucky, or your people must have been unlucky! We've had up to five different households with them at any one time, and not had any major problems. Mind you, I still remember 26K dial-up ... compared to that, everything's good! And dialling in, getting engaged signals all the time, then listening to all that manic-rat-nest sounds, and taking an hour to download a new programme, and having to go to the library for the big ones, because the connection dropped before the download was completed ... aahhhh, those were the days! Not. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 09:50, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

You are too young! 300 bps acoustic couplers were the first of my domestic modems. Only marginally better than two tins & a length of string. - Sitush (talk) 10:04, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I remember those, too! But that was before the Interwebz thing really got going ... Have you watched War Games recently? Pesky (talk …stalk!) 11:37, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Recently? Never would be nearer to the mark. IIRC, it was not subtitled the last time I tried to watch it. FWIW, my coupler was back in the days of FIDO messageboards etc. - Sitush (talk) 12:20, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

There's a scene where the young hacker dials in (on an ordinary phone, with an actual dial, IIRC), settles the handset into its nest, loads up his little programmes from his little cassette player ... bless! Pesky (talk …stalk!) 12:33, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Woah. I didn't realise that they were filming me. - Sitush (talk) 13:43, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Hi mate

Greetings Malleus. I am very happy to see you here more often now. :D I hope staying way from here for a few days did you good. This place (or should I say some people are) is really unfair to you. Malleus, please take a look at this article's lead when you have time. I hope we can have a nice chat very soon. Take care. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 13:02, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I hope Beyoncé is paying you well for all your hard work Jivesh. ;-) Malleus Fatuorum 14:06, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Lol, I don't get paid but I am happy her label notice and mention my work. See this (practically a copy-paste of End of Time (song) - second paragraph of lead]) and read this one. Malleus, I really love this woman... when I write for her, I do it with immense love and dedication. I feel like I am doing what I want, something I will never regret. Lol. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 15:07, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I feel a bit like that about this woman, although perhaps for different reasons. Malleus Fatuorum 15:19, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

She is pretty. May I know your reasons? ;) Jivesh1205 (Talk) 15:20, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Not to put too fine a point on it, basically she's sex on a stick. And she's built on rather an ambitious scale. Here's a taster for you. Malleus Fatuorum 15:24, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I can't believe is is above 50. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 15:29, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Ageist !! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:49, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Is it sexist to say that she's sex on a stick, even if she is? I'm sure she'd take it as a compliment anyway. Malleus Fatuorum 15:54, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Since that's what she's selling, I don't think so. But if I ate like that, I'd be big as a house. Doesn't work-- kinda like when HGTV filmed my house and claimed "anyone can do this in a day", although they were in there for two weeks. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:20, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Malleus has great taste..♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:47, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

He really does. But I still prefer my woman. :)) Jivesh1205 (Talk) 15:52, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I know, and she wants it luscious and smooth....and can still feel the butter on her fingers - it's too much to bear I need a shower. Giacomo Returned 15:50, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

The most desirable woman in Sweden (according to recent votes) was this Swedish chef—not to be confused with The Swedish Chef.  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 16:13, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

The weird thing about that video clip is that despite knowing no Swedish at all I felt like I understood what she was saying. Malleus Fatuorum 01:38, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Vivacious Swedish chef Tina Nordström promoted her show by bantering with Gordon Ramsey, with (dull) dick jokes to get tabloid headlines.  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 19:58, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

False advertising, she did NOT teach me how to prepare a three-course meal in under half an hour. I got the "how to look like that before my guest arrive" part down already. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:04, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Does the phrase "posh totty" mean anything to you Sandy? Malleus Fatuorum 16:11, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

What's a willie? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:17, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

It's an ... err ... um ... thingie that ... well, you know. Next question. Malleus Fatuorum 16:20, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

OK, got it. I live in a place now where carrying a Prada bag makes one the devil, so ... SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:22, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I guess you might have to make do with just being "totty" in public then, and keep the "posh" bit for your other half. Malleus Fatuorum 16:32, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Why he's a right bit of a totty, mate! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:43, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

See, you're getting the hang of it now. Only problem is, I imagine you saying it in Dick Van Dyke's excruciatingly bad attempt at an English accent in Mary Poppins. Promise me you'll never say anything like that out loud. Malleus Fatuorum 16:53, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Not to worry, my dear; I have much better phrases for those purposes! Totty indeed ... SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:26, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Ms Georgia (Southern tottie)

My granddaughter, the Hon Urusline Starborgling-Scrotum-Bonquebustiere (rather more refined tottie)

* Tsk, tsk, copyvio since 2007

** I don't think it surprises anyone to see you so jelous of darlingest Ursaline; people often mistake us for sisters.

*** Your ladyship, it has been rumoured that you are a dead ringer for this Duchess

****I can't be bothered to click on your silly links, but you are going to be very sorry when my forthcoming RFA succeeds. Malleus darling would you mind nominating me toute-de-suite. I feel the corps des administrateurs need more people just like me.

Oh Mr Fatuorum, if it's "posh totty" that you want, put down that frightful Ms Georgia, and look no further. I am here and all yours. Catherine Rollbacker de Burgh (Lady) (talk) 17:17, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

That frightful Ms Georgia has been asking you to stop damaging her reputation with non-posh images of unwaxed eyebrows for several years. Perhaps our Lady is trying to create an unfair and decidedly un-British competition, because she knows the southern belle will prevail in a fair competition. If you keep this up, I'll be requesting a site-wide banner. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:31, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I have it on reliable authority that Ms Georgia's arse is one of the wonders of the modern world, a World Heritage site no less. Not sure about that waxed eyebrow thing though ... seems a bit unnatural. Malleus Fatuorum 17:50, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I can well beleive that of Mr Georgia; there are carthorses and racehorses and who is to say which is the most useful, but I give you two images (I am completelt unbiased) over wich is the most desirable. Catherine Rollbacker de Burgh (Lady) (talk) 18:12, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Relying now on our granddaughter, are we? Perhaps I won't need the site-wide banner. Malleus, my arse may be a wonder, but you make it sound positively ancient.

And speaking of wonders, could this be the fundament of her ladyship? (I hasten to add that I use the term lady loosely, considering your disreputable heritage.) At least it may be an explanation for not one, but two WMF employees planning a junket to Brasil. How nice! Warning: a reserved posh tottie like Malleus himself may get the vapors if he watches this video. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:55, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Your ladyship, before your RFA is launched, I want to ask that you state your age for the record. I'm sure you are entirely too old for adminship 'round these parts. We like 'em young. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:48, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I think her ladyship's sensitivity to sunlight might be a clue, but there's no policy that says the nosferatu can't be administrators. Malleus Fatuorum 01:23, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

I think you are all missing the point in idly speculating on my age. Tomorrow, in case you have all forgotten is Black Sunday! The day when sentence is passed upon poor dear Malleus; so it would be a good idea if I am an Administrateur by then so that I can unblock him. I think I would be very good at it; I have a very perceptive mind. I should have accepted Mrs Bishonen's tools when she was begging me to take them. However, my great perception also leads me to beleive that those nincompoop arbs have still not made their silly minds up - I would not be surprised if they are not all Liberal Democrats - and we all know where that leads one. Catherine Rollbacker de Burgh (Lady) (talk) 10:21, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

• Milady, now you're speaking my languge; I may have picked the wrong posh totty. Is your nephew about? The last time we had a soiree on the slopes, I fear I didn't quite pay him enough mind. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:12, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Eh, when I were a lass, and flint-knapping were t'trade to be in ... Pesky (talk …stalk!) 12:34, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

• Oh I do so admire a remarkable memory, you must be very proud it Mrs Pesky. Funnily enough my nephew is about and working on this case as we speak. I think you will find that once we all know exactly where we are, he will have quite a lot to say and "post." in the meantime, has anyone offered the condemned man a last supper; I would do myself, but naturally those in my station have never learnt to cook, but I'm sure Ms Georgia and Mrs Pesky are more than acomplished downstairs. Catherine Rollbacker de Burgh (Lady) (talk) 19:34, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

• I've no time for cooking, Milady; it's hard to get good help above the equator, I left my cook behind with the last lesser half, and the new posh totty has a decidedly NorthAmerican taste in food. Last suppers are apparently being cooked elswhere. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:39, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

• I may be only a Pesky Commoner, but even aristocrats can be Commoners around here! I'm afraid to say I can (through the distaff line) trace my ancestry back to at least one unpleasant turncoat. Oops. And I'm probably more accomplished upstairs than down, despite being quite good in the kitchen. Or the snooker room. Or – no, that's right, the chandelier broke ... [Pesky chortles wickedly] Pesky (talk …stalk!) 20:06, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

• I thought sentencing was scheduled for today ... have I been awakened too soon? Malleus Fatuorum 21:44, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

My money's on the "bitten off more than they can chew" version. Nortonius (talk) 22:03, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

My money is on that it's only 12.05am this morning in La-la land. Giacomo Returned 22:35, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

It's time they woke up then! Sorry, was that unicivil? Nortonius (talk) 22:49, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Depends on whether one of the block-happy admins reads it before one of the sane ones does. Malleus Fatuorum 22:51, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Battle lines seem to be being drawn all over Wikipedia recently, so I think the best that ArbCom can hope for is that they don't create one more. Malleus Fatuorum 22:49, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

• What's the time in La-la Land now? Malleus Fatuorum 01:43, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Thank You...

		*****************The Beyoncé Knowles WikiProject Thanks You*****************
		I, Jivesh, thank you wholeheartedly for your much appreciated help and copy-edits on "Halo", which is now an FA. Your kind and encouraging words helped me even more (morally). May God bless both you and the day I came across a kind and helpful person like you on Wikipedia. -> Jivesh1205 (Talk) 04:40, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Well done. You're obviously getting the hang of this FAC lark now. Malleus Fatuorum 17:48, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

And it's all thanks to you. For this, I will always be grateful to you. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 17:52, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

You give me too much credit Jivesh, but you're a testament that the lie about me chasing off other editors is simply that, a lie. And I find it deeply shocking that a WMF employee such as Kaldari would be party to such a lie. I really like it when you take a look at the articles I write. :D Malleus Fatuorum 22:58, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Malleus, you are too bootylicious for Wikipedia. ;)  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 23:03, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

True, Wikipedia doesn't deserve me and obviously can't deal with me. I have a couple of my own writing projects on the go this year, so if I'm banned I'll get them to market sooner without the distractions of this place. So not really any kind of a punishment. Malleus Fatuorum 23:11, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

And you know Malleus, I do it with my heart because you truly deserve it. And frankly, feel i don't do enough. You deserve much more. You opened so many doors for me. And why worry about them? They are always pressed. (I don't know what this word means but I saw it being used on a forum). Those editors cannot handle your honesty and hard work. Lol. Malleus, whenever possible please don't forget to take a look at "Broken-Hearted Girl". Remember I asked you about its lead? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 04:34, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

He's just a poor boy from a poor family. Spare him his life from this monstrosity!

Even Southern Governors are granting reprieves. Let us hope that ArbCom is merciful.

Otherwise, Don't give up hope: We can ask for DNA tests, for a mistrial, for an appeal, ....  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 23:11, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm not looking for a reprieve, only equal treatment for all, admin or non-admin. Any pronouncement that fails to recognise that will be completely unacceptable. Malleus Fatuorum 23:15, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

You are absolutely right. "Reprieve" was suggested by the change that Southern governors no longer barbecue prisoners to avoid being "out Willie-Hortoned", a nasty phrase well glossed by Christopher Hitchens. A recognition of your contributions and role would be just, and equal treatment is a minimal expectation.  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 23:24, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

personal life etc.

• I know this is a waste of time, but I'll go ahead: I was talking to everyone. This spat is bullshit.
• As for you personally, then, here goes: You seem to think that fighting back is... what? somehow the correct thing to do. But it is not, for several reasons. First, you seem to have made "I don't tolerate fools" some sort of personal motto. That motto is purely based on pride, not on cool reason, or cold calculation, or on a long-sighted view toward victory. The fact is this: there are two types of enemies: empty-headed fools and wise snakes. [I am not assigning any individual editor to any category]. The way to deal with empty-headed fools has three steps: ignore them, ignore them, and ignore them. If they push themselves to the fore where they can't be ignored, then deal with them as firmly but calmly as you would a child who is throwing a harmless tantrum.... others will rally around you when you do so, and you score fucking huge style points by remaining calm... [Wise snakes are an entirely different matter, but tactical bickering still is not the way to go (see below)]... The second reason is this: Every time you [you personally, Malleus] engage your enemies, they always win in the long run (whether or not you prevail in the short run), simply because you have engaged. It is a war of attrition. Each spat inevitably brings you closer and closer to burnout.... another possibility is that that each spat in which you let them prod you into saying "fuck you" or "cunt" or whatever brings you closer to actually being site banned, some day in the far-flung future. Either way, they win, you lose, because you have let them employ your pride as a tool against you. Can't you see that winning in the short run by engaging in and trying to prevail in some tactical engagement (spat) is inevitably driving you to lose in the long run? There is only one path to victory for you, and it is paved with reason and calm demeanor, and the signposts say never, never, never engage your enemy. Take the long-run view.
• That's all. Go ahead and be angry. Good luck in all you do. –OneLeafKnowsAutumn (talk) 02:15, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

  You're quite right, you just wasted your time. Malleus Fatuorum 02:19, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

  OK, last post and unwatching: I sincerely wish you good luck in the civility case. You won't be banned, but they have to do something or other, or the opposing side will howl too much. I won't post on your talk again. –OneLeafKnowsAutumn (talk) 02:22, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

  Obviously you're right; the lynch mob has demanded some kind of punishment and I doubt that ArbCom has the strength or integrity to stand to up to them. But please don't stop posting to my talk page even though we may sometimes disagree. I'd guess I've disagreed with pretty much everyone who's posted here at one time or another. Disagreement is healthy. Malleus Fatuorum 02:29, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Okays; I just read that; Malleus, dear, darling, gorgeous Malleus, Leaf's comment there is actually pretty insightful. [Pesky ducks behind convenient piece of furniture, pokes nose out, dips ears, wags tail, etc.] If you re-read it as if it were something you'd written to someone else, you might see more in it. I try not to disagree with people more than I can help, it's too stressful in an already over-stress-filled Real Life, so I have no intentions of getting into a spat with either of you (or anyone else here). Maybe if we can get that mandate for a dream team to re-word the civility policy, maybe if we can have an amnesty for all involved in the ArbCom case on the basis that the damned rule is too nebulous ... maybe then we can get some real justice in the whole thing. I know of at least one Arb who I personally consider to ooze integrity; maybe that will make a difference. If we get a realisation, Wiki-wide, that we need equality under the law, that will be something. It will solve 85% of the problem. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 09:21, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Regarding AN/I

Go fuck yourself. --Elkman ^(Elkspeak) 02:54, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

If you are not already indefinitely blocked then you have demonstrated with some aplomb what the real problem is here. Malleus Fatuorum 03:26, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

And I don't see any warning on your talk page for the use of profane language. How do you explain that? Malleus Fatuorum 03:29, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

For the record I was in the middle of posting a note on his talk page asking if his comment was really necessary when I noticed he'd already removed it. We all have bad days. 28bytes (talk) 03:30, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

I saw this and thought it pretty much underscores everything wrong here. Post ec - we all have bad days??? Yet some people get blocked for a week for a bad days and others get an arb case - whoever this guy is gets a "we all have bad days". Pah! Truthkeeper (talk) 03:33, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Absolutely agree TK; that was hypocrisy taken to a level that I couldn't even begin to imagine. Malleus Fatuorum 03:36, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Not on my part I hope. I distribute the "we all have bad days" business fairly equitably, I think. 28bytes (talk) 03:39, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Yes, but you're missing the important difference here. 78.149.240.164 (talk) 03:40, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

So let's see if I've got this right 28bytes. I can call anyone anything I like so long as I revert it before an admin comes along? Malleus Fatuorum 03:42, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Depends on the admin, of course. A sensible one wouldn't cause a stink over something that someone had already withdrawn. 28bytes (talk) 03:44, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

In your opinion perhaps, not in mine. Malleus Fatuorum 03:46, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

What else do you expect Elkman to say after you make him look like a fool, with help from Volunteer Marek? He obviously has been hanging out with grown ups, and can swear like the big boys.  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 03:58, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

I don't expect him to do or or say anything at all, just to be put over the knee of the nearest admin and be spanked and blocked. Malleus Fatuorum 04:04, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

OK, so how long do you want me to be blocked? A day? A week? Six months? You know the usual places to ask for a punitive block. Or, better yet, call these guys and ask for some real enforcement action. --Elkman ^(Elkspeak) 06:23, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

I don't want you to be blocked at all dear boy, as I think that blockng infantilises us all. Malleus Fatuorum 14:47, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Record jury deliberation ...

Although I realise it is a silly situation to find the deadline gone and no word from anyone, I thought we might be amused by these RL snippets of jurors, who also perhaps wished they hadn't been "chosen": Longest criminal jury deliberation (UK) and (US). My favourite sentence is that last one in the US story ... Chaosdruid (talk) 13:25, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

What happened to "Choker"? Is he still on the run? Ning-ning (talk) 14:10, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Ito-Balmond Serpentine Pavilion

This is confusing. Where actually is it and what actually is it? It was categorized as a defunct museum in London and a restauraunt in France but it located in Tokyo! Any ideas?♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:39, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

It was a temporary structure built in Hyde Park in London (it's a tradition that the Serpentine Gallery builds a new extension each year, which is then dismantled and sold). It was re-erected in St Tropez in France. Tokyo only comes into it as the home of the architect who designed it (Toyo Ito). 78.149.252.90 (talk) 14:56, 30 January 2012 (UTC)