Wikipedia:Australian Wikipedians' notice board

Australian Wikipedians' notice board

Portal | Project | Board | Alerts | Deletions | To-Do | Category | Related | Help

WikiProjects edit | watch	In the news edit | watch
WikiProject Australia Australian Wikipedians' Notice Board Australian Wikipedians Wikipedians in Australia Australian Collaboration of the Fortnight New Australian articles WikiProject Australian places New South Wales Riverina Northern Territory Queensland South Australia Tasmania Victoria Western Australia Australian Antarctic Territory Australian WikiProject Cities Adelaide Canberra Melbourne Perth Geelong Sydney Other Australia-related WikiProjects The 5000 Challenge Biota Cinema Crime Demographics Education History Exploration Maritime Military Indigenous peoples Noongar Law Literature Music Crowded House Kylie Minogue Powderfinger Politics Sports Association football Australian rules football Baseball Basketball Motorsport Television Transport Roads WikiTowns Freopedia Toodyaypedia	7 August 2024 – 2024 Summer Olympics French police detain Australian field hockey player Tom Craig for allegedly purchasing cocaine. (DW) 6 August 2024 – 2024 Summer Olympics Australia at the 2024 Summer Olympics Fourteen-year-old Arisa Trew wins the gold medal in Women's park skateboarding, becoming the youngest Australian to ever win an Olympic gold medal. (The Sydney Morning Herald) 30 July 2024 – Rex Airlines, Australia's third-largest airline, suspends all domestic Boeing 737 flights and enters voluntary administration. (AFR) 30 July 2024 – 2024 Summer Olympics Several athletes test positive for COVID-19, including Australian swimmer Lani Pallister, forcing her to withdraw from the 1500 metre freestyle swimming event. (Al Arabiya) 29 July 2024 – Sakina Muhammad Jan becomes the first person to be jailed under Australia's forced marriage laws after ordering her 21-year-old daughter to marry a man who later murdered her. (BBC News)
Categories edit | watch	On this day in Australia edit | watch
Australia · Arts · Architecture · Cities · Communications · Culture · Economy · Education · Environment · Geography · Government · Healthcare · History · Law · Language · Lists · Media · Military · Music · Organisations · People · Politics · Religion · Science · Society · Sport · Subdivisions · Transport · Tourism Australian states and territories · Australian Capital Territory · New South Wales · Northern Territory · Queensland · South Australia · Tasmania · Victoria · Western Australia Capital cities · Adelaide · Brisbane · Canberra · Darwin · Hobart · Melbourne · Perth · Sydney Australia stubs · AFL stubs · Geography stubs · Government stubs · Law stubs · People stubs · Paralympic medalists stubs · Television stubs	10 August: 11th Battalion, Australian Imperial Force, posing on the Great Pyramid of Giza, 1915. 1853 – A Jubilee Festival was held in Hobart to mark the cessation of convict transportation to the colony. 1885 – The Broken Hill Proprietary Company (later to become the world's largest mining company, BHP Billiton) is registered as a company in Victoria. 1914 – Recruiting begins for the First Australian Imperial Force. Australia had offered a force of 20,000 troops. 1920 – The Princes Highway is opened, connecting Sydney and Adelaide via Melbourne. More Australian anniversaries...
To-Do edit | watch	Announcements edit | watch
Here are some tasks you can do to help with WikiProject Australia: Requests · Ariadne Australia · Awakenings Festival · Drought Force · Electoral reform in Australia · Fossils of Australia · Landforms of Australia · Sculpture of Australia Articles needing attention · Australian contemporary dance · Crime in Australia · Environment of Australia · Gender inequality in Australia · Privacy in Australian law · Secession in Australia · Tourism in Australia Images requested · Cheryl Kernot · MV Pacific Adventurer · Poppy King · Rosemary Goldie · James Moore · OneAustralia · Australian major cricket venues Verification needed · Architecture of Australia · Australian performance poetry · FreeTV Australia · Hindmarsh Island Royal Commission · List of political controversies in Australia · Punk rock in Australia Quality watch: 64 FL-Class Australia lists 407 FA-Class Australia articles 711 GA-Class Australia articles 155 FP-Class Australian pictures	Featured article candidates John Tonkin – Discussion Good article candidates Premier of Victoria — Discussion Fair Work Ombudsman v Quest South Perth — Discussion Sophie Scamps — Discussion Kevin Rudd — Discussion Boyd Exell — Discussion Alexandra Kiroi-Bogatyreva — Discussion Tiger quoll — Discussion William Perry French Morris — Discussion Simon Stuart (general) — Discussion Gnaraloo worm-lizard — Discussion Zephyrarchaea marki — Discussion James Davis (escaped convict) — Discussion Manifesto (2015 film) — Discussion Requests for adminship none currently General announcements Grants: Project Announcement - Women's Art Register Art+Feminism Event Planned meetups Perth – 28 July 2024 Brisbane – To be decided Melbourne – Wikipedia:Meetup/Melbourne/46 - Tuesday 13 August, 2024 Peer review BP Refinery v Tracey — Review Nestory Irankunda — Review Beard, Wives, Denim — Review Deletion discussions

The Angels (Australian band)

Could use some extra watching what with recent round of edit warring and apparent WP:COI editing, and perhaps input from editor(s) who are more familiar with the group. Dl2000 (talk) 04:06, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Protection for Holden VH Commodore

Could someone protect the Holden VH Commodore article from a strange removal of content due to theft claim. - Shiftchange (talk) 01:14, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Apparently there is no longer a problem. The editor removing the images from the article has had them deleted from commons. One reason the admin who deleted them did so was because they were unused. --AussieLegend (✉) 07:40, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Problems with The Angels and VH Commodore articles, hmmm... shall I do a preemptive WP:RFP for Victoria Bitter (why hasn't this been moved to Victoria (Australia) Bitter yet????) and Flannelette? The-Pope (talk) 08:03, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Admin help

Can someone please delete the useless redirects at Electoral district of Murray (South Australia) and Electoral district of Gumeracha? An editor is apparently going around redirecting these to a general article which contains precisely zero content relating to these electorates, and they need to show as redlinks so we know where still needs to be worked on. The Drover's Wife (talk) 17:57, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

EnergyAustralia

There is a proposal concerning EnergyAustralia and TRUenergy articles. Your opinion is appreciated. Beagel (talk) 06:01, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Public commentators and notability.

AfD's for Bruce Haigh and Daryl Dixon (economic writer) illustrate an issue regarding notability, others, such Alan Ramsey (chosen at random) could also be caught up in a purge. It appears that a high public profile of reporting/commenting with articles published by Fairfax, News Ltd publications and broadcast on the ABC is not enough to prove notability. -- Paul foord (talk) 07:22, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Sigh. Someone's going to need to hit up Factiva and go through and source them. All of these shouldn't be that hard to find, since they're significant enough to have things written about them. I know Haigh definitely has been profiled because I've seen them, I suspect the easiest way to keep Dixon's article would be through independent coverage of his books, and Ramsey's been around for so long someone has to have written something about him at least once. The Drover's Wife (talk) 10:21, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

The (now free) Fairfax news store is very useful for SMH & The Age articles. Just make sure you realise how its boolean logic works. The-Pope (talk) 11:09, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Woah. That is a phenomenal resource, and so much easier to use than Factiva. This is going to change a few things. The Drover's Wife (talk) 14:20, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Might be worth doing up a list of resources for Australian subjects. Hack (talk) 03:48, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Rejuvenate the "Resources" section of Wikipedia:WikiProject_Australia/Help? --99of9 (talk) 04:59, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Added a bit but it's a bit incomplete - I've only added a few I am familiar with and use. Hack (talk) 06:25, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Template:Australian politics/name/Industrial Labor Party

... doesn't seem to be valid. --Griot-de (talk) 23:49, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean, but it was a legitimate political party in the thirties with elected representatives. If you're talking about the redirect itself, you're probably best off asking the editor who redirected it first. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 11:52, 16 January 2013 (UTC).

Is Australia (2008 film) a "Western"?

At List_of_Western_films_of_the_2000s the question has arisen of whether Australia (2008 film) is a "Western", specifically an "Outback Western", which oddly isn't mentioned at Western (genre). Also several other Australian films, such as Ned Kelly (2003 film) are included in this list. 202.81.242.188 (talk) 09:22, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Weird - Australian does not necessarily correspond to Western by genre, content or subject SatuSuro 09:26, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Or geography. HiLo48 (talk) 11:08, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Some of it does ... Mitch Ames (talk) 12:52, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

There is also Category:Australian Western films. The question is whether sources widely describe them as Westerns. A single reference to "Outback Western" probably won't cut it. Osiris (talk) 12:54, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

There are zero references to "Outback Western". And as for "Australian Western"; who invented that category? Seriously. Does it have any provenance? I think Quigley Down Under is the only film that one could describe as such. 202.81.242.188 (talk) 19:06, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Well, Category:Australian Western films was created and entirely populated in 2008 by one editor, Jules90 and has gone unnoted, undiscussed and uncited ever since. It's no more than one person's opinion. 202.81.242.188 (talk) 07:07, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

And that person hasn't edited in almost three years. It won't be easy to discuss it with him. HiLo48 (talk) 07:10, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

CfD anyone? --AussieLegend (✉) 07:23, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

It's not a made-up concept. There's a bit of coverage in reliable sources about the concept of an Australian Western film (films using motifs and styles borrowed from American Westerns), most recently in relation to The Proposition and Red Hill. During the 1940s, a series of "Australian Westerns" were made by Ealing Studios, most notably The Overlanders. Hack (talk) 07:52, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

So, where is this cited? The Overlanders (film) is "notably" an Australian Western? There isn't a word about that in the article, and it's not in the category either. It just says it was a "film set entirely outdoors". Seems the category has been applied fairly randomly. Having elements of some genre doesn't automatically make a film a member of that genre. It would be more descriptive to call them "Outback" films, perhaps. At the National Film Archive it's tagged "Aboriginal stockmen, Australian soldiers, Second World War, cattle drives, crocodiles, drovers, families, nationalism, outback, pioneering spirit, rivers, role of women". But not "Western". Saying these films have some common elements with US Westerns is one thing. Saying they ARE Westerns is quite another. Some things look similar, but the stories are rooted in Australian history, not American.202.81.242.188 (talk) 09:42, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

CfD would have my support. Keneally didn't write Blacksmith as a western. Ned Kelly stories (even when played by Mick Jagger) are not westerns. The nearest to a western is Mad Max 2, which isn't even in the cat. Agree with the comments by editor above. Crusoe8181 (talk) 10:28, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

There are most certainly Australian films that can be reasonably described as Westerns. The Proposition is clearly a Western set in Australia. The Gregor Jordan film was very much within the "Western" film tradition. The 1982 version of the The Man from Snowy River was filmed as a Western. The television show Five Mile Creek was clearly a Western television series. The idea that anything set in Australia is automatically not a Western is overreach. -- Mattinbgn (talk) 10:46, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

One could argue that a movie not set in the old U.S.A west is not a western, since that is why westerns are so named. Having elements of a western does not mean that it's automatically a western. --AussieLegend (✉) 11:12, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

There are lots of arguments about genre labels for films, TV shows, books, etc. here. In case of dispute, (and many are disputing, it seems) it comes down to citing a significant number of reliable sources saying that it is one genre or another. 19th C Australia was a British colony, quite different from the US of the period. The relationship of settlers with Aboriginals was very different to that with Indians. Most importantly perhaps, there was no "Western" frontier leading to fertile farmlands, but a vast arid Outback. You can find elements of Western stories, but drovers aren't cowboys. The label "Western" needs to be strongly justified if it is proposed on any film not actually set in the US West. 202.81.242.188 (talk) 11:14, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

Some Australian films, like The Proposition (which is excellent, by the way), have been marketed as "Australian Westerns" though. I think that The Proposition pretty much fits in the bill, in that it has a lot of Western stylistic tropes in it. Australia the film... not so much. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 11:45, 16 January 2013 (UTC).

You know, retailers still market products with capacities in "lts" and lengths in "mts". That doesn't mean these abbreviations are valid though. I'm really not sure what an "Australian Western" is though since (fortunately) in that area the U.S. and Oz are kilometres (or should that be "kms") apart, both literally and figuratively. The American Film Institute defines "western" as "a genre of films set in the American West that embodies the spirit, the struggle and the demise of the new frontier."[1] The American Film Institute would seem to be fairly authoritative on this. There may be some films that are "Australian Westerns", but they're not "westerns" unless they're set in the U.S. --AussieLegend (✉) 12:03, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

Yet, here we have professional film journalists who describe The Proposition as a Western. All genre is somewhat subjective, but if it's set in a frontier region, has shootouts, outlaws, cattle, hats, and a lot of dust, that says "Western" to me. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 12:19, 16 January 2013 (UTC).

"Frontier"? Frontier of what? There isn't any in Australia. No Mexico, Canada or Indian borders. They have "shootouts" in every country in the world. They have "outlaws" in every country in the world. They have "hats", "cattle"... you get the idea. All of those things are seen in Westerns. All of those things are seen in many other genres. The specific thing is the location. Every definition of a Western starts with that. 12:52, 16 January 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.81.242.188 (talk)

(ec caused by some local outlaws) Well, not quite. All qualify it; the first calls it a "revisionist Australian western", the second and third call it an "Australian western". A true western it is not. A frontier region, cattle, hats, and a lot of dust sounds a lot like the places I've been in the Northern Territory. I'm sure there were plenty of outlaws around and hell, I've been involved in a couple of shootouts up there, although our weapons were bigger than six guns. Anything can be made to fit the bill if we interpret too loosely. --AussieLegend (✉) 12:58, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

You know, the argument would be far more convincing if there were a large proportion of reliable references for the usage of "western" to describe any Australian films. I concede that there are a handful of such examples, but these are overwhelmed by the great majority that do not. As I stated before, a western is set in old west of the USA, not Australia. You may with justification describe some Australian movies as "western like" but on no account can you reasonably describe them as actual westerns. - Nick Thorne ^talk 03:06, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

According to the Macquarie Dictionary, the correct term is "meat-pie western". It is "a film made in Australia in the genre of a US western". lol Hack (talk) 05:03, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

I think that narrowing the definition of a western to those films only taking place in the American 19th century is an editorial construct. As editors, one of the first things we learn is that our personal opinions, wants and dislikes never - I repeat, never - get to supplant or overrule reliable, verifiable and notable opinion from professional reviewers. We editors aren't citable. Verifiability, not truth, is the litmus for inclusion in Wikipedia. We have several film reviewers who name a number of films not set in the American West as westerns. We don't get to gainsay that. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 08:05, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

That isn't "narrowing" the definition. It is the definition. See Western (genre) where the consensus WP definition is found. Westerns are devoted to telling stories set primarily in the latter half of the 19th century in the American Old West, hence the name. It's people who want to broaden it to include every movie with a guy on a horse and a big hat that are "overreaching". It's obvious that there is a Western influence on many Australian movies set in the bush. That doesn't make them "Westerns". As The Magnificent Seven is a Western and not a samurai movie, despite being based on Seven Samurai. 202.81.242.51 (talk) 11:41, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Shootout at the local coralle

In view of the above item - editing at Gun_politics_in_Australia has seen a SPA take issue (which hasnt been checked), and the general ambience seems to suggest that it will require more than just the usual eds to keep it on watch - regular watches from any admins would be helpful...SatuSuro 00:34, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Field and Game Australia

There is a bit of a stouch at Field and Game Australia. It needs a bit of a look-see. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 04:07, 17 January 2013 (UTC)