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September 3

Set

I believe "Set" to be the word with the most meanings in the English language, but exactly how many meanings of this word are there? ☯ Bonkers The Clown \(^_^)/ Nonsensical Babble ☯ 13:25, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Define "meanings". Do you mean the number of meanings listed after the word in something like Webster's? Or do you mean multiple shades of meaning which Webster might list only once? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:01, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

If you look at the word origins,[1] most of these multiple shades of meaning collapse down to about 2. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:04, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Maybe what you heard is that "set" was the word with the highest number of separate lexical definitions in one or several reputable English dictionaries. I've read that about "set" too, and also about "jack". I couldn't find a list on Wikipedia (I really expected to find one). I did find some bloggish comments on this, but no reliable source so far. I'm sure it's findable though. ---Sluzzelin talk 14:12, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

According to our article on the Oxford English Dictionary, "the longest entry in the OED2 was for the verb set, which required 60,000 words to describe some 430 senses". Deor (talk) 14:25, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

"While we let the cement pieces of the giant chess set set, set set people on the purple sofa and pliant ones on the orange divan."(Ian Mc Bee) ("A SOUP CAN CAN CAN-CAN; CAN YOU?") This one and every other example given in that article, about a Will Shortz challenge to listeners of NPR, were new to me. Enjoy :-). ---Sluzzelin talk 14:35, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

New stuff for my List of word repetitions. --Pp.paul.4 (talk) 15:32, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Daydreaming at Night

Hello everyone! I'm wondering this time about daydreaming... but at night. What would this be called? Night dreaming? Thanks! --.Yellow1996.^(ЬMИED¡) 15:42, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

If asleep, dreaming... If awake, probably still daydreaming, excepting an argument from etymology, the word has connotations of drifting off while awake, not necessarily during daylight hours. (see wiktionary) MChesterMC (talk) 15:53, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Ok. So it doesn't necessarily have to happen during daylight - weird. So I guess I daydream at night, then. Thanks! :) --.Yellow1996.^(ЬMИED¡) 16:12, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Hypnagogia is the technical term for the dream-like sensations many people experience before actually falling asleep, incidentally. Tevildo (talk) 17:29, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Cool - I didn't know that! Though in my case it's completely voluntary. --.Yellow1996.^(ЬMИED¡) 17:33, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

This might occur in the wakeful interval of segmented sleep.

—Wavelength (talk) 17:43, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

So, how about nocturnal emissions? What are they called during the day? μηδείς (talk) 22:14, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Spermatorrhea. Tevildo (talk) 22:57, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

That's quite interesting actually. When I saw Medeis's post earlier (on an untrusted computer, so can't log on) I thought "well, what's the opposite of nocturnal?" - "solar?" - and ended up with solar emission... which made me think of solar flare... ;) --.Yellow1996.^(ЬMИED¡) 01:00, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Diurnal is to nocturnal, as solar is to lunar. (I've seen a few lunatic emissions around here.) -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 01:05, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Ah! So that's the word; I had never heard of that before. Thanks, Jack! And yes, many of us here have probably seen more than our fair share here on the ref desk... :) --.Yellow1996.^(ЬMИED¡) 01:11, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

You might also be interested in crepuscular then. It splits the difference. Dismas|^(talk) 01:13, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

... and at the antipodean point of the day, what Homer referred to as the "rosy fingered dawn" (otherwise known as the title of a lesbian love story), it's auroral. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 01:27, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, guys for all these new words... now I need to find somewhere to use them! :) And if anyone ever says that people don't learn from the smalltext conversations one these desks, point them here! --.Yellow1996.^(ЬMИED¡) 01:33, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Perversely, I'm reminded of I can write no more today … who knows to what nightmares I might wake (the last words Morris West ever wrote, in his unfinished novel The Last Confession, based on the trials and imprisonment of Giordano Bruno). -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 23:07, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Interesting quote... reminds me of the saying I've heard "wake up to a nightmare" - at least I rarely get those... --.Yellow1996.^(ЬMИED¡) 01:00, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

@ Jack, actually, the proper analogy is solar is to lunar as duirnal is to mensual. The moon is not solely nocturnal, nor is the night locked to the moon's rhythm, but the month thereto. μηδείς (talk) 21:51, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Duirnal/diurnal almost reminds me of a dual urinal, whatever that is. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 07:41, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

You may be thinking of a dyed urinal cake. μηδείς (talk) 18:57, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Mmm, yummy. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:06, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Usage: suggest, recommend, advise + me

Greetings, fellow Wikipedians! I have a question related to the usage the words: suggest, advise and recommend, when using them with "me".

1. Can you suggest me a dictionary?
2. Can you recommend me a dictionary?
3. Can you advise me a dictionary?

Also, making a slight variation to the above examples, are they standard in usage?

4. Can you suggest a dictionary to me?
5. Can you recommend a dictionary to me?
6. Can you advise a dictionary to me?

I would appreciate if you could point out the errors (if any) in the six sentences. Thanks in advance! ReconteurMemoirs (talk) 20:37, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

The direct object of the transitive verbs to suggest and to recommend is normally the suggestion or recommendation, so "me" is normally the indirect object. Thus 4 and 5 are preferred, and 1 sounds very odd (I would regard "suggest me" as incorrect in UK usage), but 2 seems to be idiomatic, so I would regard it as equivalent to 5. The object of advise can be either the person advised or (sometimes) the advice, but not normally both, so both 3 and 6 sound odd. There might be regional differences in usage. I would ask "Can you advise me about a dictionary". Dbfirs 21:27, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

I would drop the "to me" (because that's understood, unless they're asking you to enlighten some third party), and just ask "Can you suggest/recommend a dictionary?". -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:03, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Agree with the above comments, and suggest that 4 and 5 would be more natural with for instead of to. μηδείς (talk) 22:12, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Yes, those improvements sound right in this part of the world, too. I wondered if there might be regional variations in idiom, but it seems not. Dbfirs 07:12, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Looking for word

I need a word halfway between "encourage" and "coerce", meaning to try to get someone to do something, using some form of carrot, stick, etc. -- Ypnypn (talk) 20:48, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Influence (with integrity, of course)? -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:00, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

If you're using a carrot rather than a stick, I'd suggest entice. Deor (talk) 21:02, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Cajole, inveigle? ---Sluzzelin talk 21:29, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Or coax, perhaps? Deor (talk) 22:07, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Threatening to strangle them with coaxial cable? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:30, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Something like "blarney" comes to mind. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:35, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

I've been "volun-told" to do things at work, if you don't mind neologisms (though there are several Google hits of the word). Matt Deres (talk) 01:17, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

In this kind of situation, I tend to hear "I have been volunteered" (as opposed to "I have volunteered") MChesterMC (talk) 08:32, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

I think the asker should provide us with more context. A detailed description of the situation will help, I suppose. ReconteurMemoirs (talk) 01:30, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Oh, I think the OP could be persuaded.196.214.78.114 (talk) 08:47, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Or induced. Clarityfiend (talk) 12:21, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Prod, arm-twist, or jawbone. Duoduoduo (talk) 17:16, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

I'm surprised no one else resurrected this oldie: "Q: Why is the prairie so flat? A: Because the sun sets on it every night." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:28, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

September 4

Can I say "that diffilcult period involved fear and hunger"?

or should I say "that difficult period was accompanied by fear and hunger"? 77.125.140.155 (talk) 11:44, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Maybe, but it depends on what the actual cause of that unnamed difficult period was. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:28, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Presumably the fear and hunger were the reason the period was difficult. "...was accompanied by" doesn't indicate the causal connection, so I would say "involved" or "entailed". Duoduoduo (talk) 17:19, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Radio 4 piece referencing Washoe the Chimp's use of 'taboo' language

Help! I've searched in every way I can think of for a link to a Radio 4 piece that referenced Washoe's use of 'dirty' as a taboo word and cannot find it. The piece was broadcast 18-30 August as part of a programme so it's not easy to find on the Radio 4 website, though I have tried. I'd really like to find the article to send to a friend interested in language. 193.60.248.48 (talk) 12:43, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Have you searched using "Radio 4 programme language washoe"? I did, and I got links to 3 Radio 4 series, 2 of which have been broadcast during the time period you specify. I haven't a clue which programme it would be, so maybe you need to have a look yourself in more depth.--TammyMoet (talk) 19:18, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Than/then

I've seen somewhere that people often writes then instead of than. E.g... I am taller then Bono. Is that correct? Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 15:34, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

It's totally wrong. "Than" is used for comparisons such as "I am taller than Robert Wadlow". "Then" generally refers to a point in time in a sequence of events, such as "First I did this, then I did that, etc." Think que vs. luego or entonces. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:40, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) That's what I thought until I hit on the I am taller then Bono thing. So I was like OMG... I've always used then as después or luego. Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 15:44, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Here is a pretty good explanation of the distinction between "than" and "then". In general I think this site is interesting. (Also this page and this page.) Bus stop (talk) 15:48, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2010 January 28#Common misspellings (eg. than/then, you're/your)

and Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2012 November 19#Whatever happened to the distinctions between there/their/they're and than/then?

and Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2011 August 19#Then for than (with links to four prior discussions).

—Wavelength (talk) 15:49, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

I was thinking that the only way I could twist this into a valid sentence would be to put a comma in the right place. "I am taller, then my brother." That would be describing the past in present tense, and saying that I reached 6 feet in 1970, and my brother reached and surpassed that height in 1975. Which would be a ridiculous way of conveying that info. And that's why "then" is not going to be correct in the original sentence. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:36, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

It has become a pretty common typo for me. Astronaut (talk) 17:55, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Typos happen. The problem is not understanding the difference. There/their/they're and all that sort of thing. Are vs. our. etc. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:04, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Both words are very common, and - depending on dialect - may be pronounced with a schwa, rendering them homophones. From that similarity on the tongue to a mis-spelling on the page is a simple slip. BrainyBabe (talk) 20:24, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Bugs is actually correct etymologically with his "then, my brother" comment. Both words have the same origin. The difference is that "than" can never be stressed or sentence-intial under normal circumstances. But unstressed both words sound the same, hence the typos. Even when emphasized as in a citation form, unless I want to sound like a radio announcer, I normally say than, any, an, catch, many, & and & various other words (like catsup /kɛtʃʌp/) to rhyme with pen or fetch. μηδείς (talk) 21:44, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

They sound the same for some speakers. In most British dialects, the vowel in 'then' is not reduced to schwa when unstressed, so the words do not get confused. --ColinFine (talk) 22:17, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Frankly speaking I've never understood those people (usually learners) who confuse then and than. First, they have completely different meaning and functions, even if they're pronounced with schwa or if /æ/ is merged with /e/. Second, I suppose that then is always stressed, so there cannot be schwa in it.--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 06:40, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

"Then" is not always stressed. It would be stressed and unreduced in "What do you want to do, then?" but in my American accent "Then what do you want to do?" in response to saying "I don't like any of those options" would often be reduced, and would have a different meaning (after that) if not reduced. μηδείς (talk) 18:07, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Many Americans pronounce "than" the same as stressed "then", namely as /ðɛn/. That would explain some people's making the spelling mistake. Duoduoduo (talk) 17:24, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

It could explain it, up to a point. But really, these words are as similar in meaning as "realize" and "real eyes" are - namely, not similar at all. Nobody would ever confuse these in practice. It must come down to lack of proper instruction/education/training, call it what you like. The saddest thing about people who confuse then/than/that, or your/you're, or there/their/they're etc ad nauseam, is that they don't even know they're making a mistake, and that's a sad indictment on our education systems. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:58, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Clover?

I've heard both clover and shamrock for trébol. What's the difference between those two words? Sorry for asking so many questions :( Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 18:28, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Clover can be the entire genus of many many species, while shamrock usually refers to the three-leaved thingy when used as a symbol, not the entire genus or organism in a botanical sense (see also es:Shamrock on Spanish Wikipedia). There are other uses and there is lack of consensus, as explained in the English article on shamrock. (There's nothing wrong with asking a lot of questions). ---Sluzzelin talk 18:37, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you so much Sluzzelin. :) Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 18:40, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

If you look it up on this site, you can infer that trébol is cognate with trefoil, coming from Latin trifolium, and originally from the Greek τρίφυλλον, likewise used to mean "clover" but literally "three-leafed plant", although some clover species have more than three leaves. "Shamrock" comes from the Irish word for "clover".[2] So it stands to reason that both would translate to trébol. And as Sluzzelin indicates, "shamrock" as an English word refers specifically to Irish culture and Saint Patrick and so on. For further amusement, check out four-leaf clover. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:08, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Oh, and let's not forget the guy who invented sliced bread, and developed a four-loaf cleaver. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:20, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, Baseball. :) Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 19:21, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Me gusta. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:24, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Qué es lo que te gusta? :D Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 19:27, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Me gusta responder a sus preguntas. Be aware that my Spanish is high school level, and it has been a long time since high school. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:37, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

No hay problema, puedo entender perfectamente tu Español, igual que el de Medeis :D. My English is also high school level, so don't worry for it ;) Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 19:44, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Excelente. Medeis, in fact, appears to be multilingual. That's a valuable skill. I can at least read enough Spanish to have a clue about something written when it pops up on TV or in a Hispanic neighborhood. And I would have to say your English is pretty good. Practice helps, of course. :) And answering language questions is always fun for me, when it's within my range of experience. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:08, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

I can speak a little bit of a few languages, but not much, here's a couple of those. Thanks for believing that my English is pretty good ;) Sometime I hit on something weird and I start to rack my brains to figure out what that is that and those are written that way and... you know, English tends to be confusing. Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 20:17, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

English can be terribly confusing even (or sometimes especially) to a native speaker. I once know a native Spanish speaker who knew only basic English. He said that English grammar rules are pretty easy to understand. It's the usage and pronunciation that can drive you crazy trying to figure out. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:24, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Prepositions kill me almost literally O_o Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 20:45, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Speaking of prepositions, the phrase is "don't worry about it", not "for" it. You can worry for a friend or person, but that means you are concerned about a future event like the result of a medical operation. μηδείς (talk) 21:25, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

• The difference between clover and shamrock is the same as the difference between iris and flor de lis. μηδείς (talk) 21:31, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

September 5

duck for apples

What kind of game is "duck for apples" in the following passage?

 Heather had come to help. She thought she would be useful in 
 setting up the games and was very perplexed when there seemed
 to be no games to set up. No ducking for apples like at 
 Hallowe'en.--Maeve Binchy, Circle of Friends, p.418.122.19.123.34 (talk) 08:38, 5 September 2013 (UTC)dengen

See Apple bobbing. Clarityfiend (talk) 08:47, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

...in which the apples bob on the surface of the water, and the player's head ducks below the surface of the water. -- Deborahjay (talk) 11:02, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Our article says that in Scotland it's called ducking or "dooking" (the Scots have rather odd vowels). However, it would be understood by a native of London, and I'd be hard pressed to tell you whether "ducking" or "bobbing" was preferred down here. Alansplodge (talk) 12:45, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Always ducking (or "duck-apple") here in northern England, but "bobbing" seems to get more common as you travel south. Dbfirs 13:40, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

In America one just reaches in and takes one. We call it "grabbing for apples". μηδείς (talk) 21:11, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

That would be the Indiana Jones solution. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:24, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

(The Indiana Jones Solution) μηδείς (talk) 17:46, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Precisely. There's a story behind how they arrived at doing that scene, but that's a bit off the rails. Less violently, but no less "taking the easiest approach", is Bob Uecker's time-honored advice for how to catch a knuckleball pitch: "Wait till it stops rolling, and pick it up." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:10, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

In Canada, it's bobbing for apples. Unless it's a really fancy party, in which case it's roberting. Clarityfiend (talk) 01:01, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

When I was a kid we always called it either bobbing or dunking for apples (because you dunk your head in the water). That gets some hits on google but not a whole lot. Duoduoduo (talk) 17:34, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

What's the Spanish for

we have several peaches left? It could be Nos quedan varios melocotón? Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 20:29, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Yes, or todavía tenemos unos melocotones. Is there wider context you are looking at where a more subtle distinction would be important? μηδείς (talk) 21:07, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

No entendí la pregunta Medeis. Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 12:27, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Is this just curiosity about that phrase alone, or was it part of a wider thing being translated? μηδείς (talk) 18:55, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Just curiosity. A friend of mine who is studying English, asked me and I wasn't sure so I asked here :) Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 18:56, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

This may be of little help,but we have an article on Yes! We Have No Bananas.

In a Marxist dialectic this may be the logical oppposite to "We have several peaches left", assuming some binary peaches vs bananas universe. I believe the Marxist desk is just a bit to the left from those peaches. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 19:18, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

September 7

Pronunciation - Japanese

Does anyone know what these two places are called in Romaji? 門池 and 東仙峡金山湖, cheers. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 10:52, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

jp:門池 says Kadoike (かどいけ), and ja:岩屋ダム says Tousenkyoukanayamako (とうせんきょうかなやまこ). That's a mouthful. Effovex (talk) 20:02, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Tax haven and tax heaven

Is the second form just wrong? Or does it imply a more negative attitude towards countries used by companies to avoid paying taxes?OsmanRF34 (talk) 16:08, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Heaven is always intended as a positive word. A company that locates itself in a tax haven likes the low taxes and considers itself to be in (tax) heaven. Duoduoduo (talk) 16:47, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Well, then if you say a country is like heaven for terrorists, you probably are saying somethign positive about it? The second form implies that it's a heaven for those not paying taxes. OsmanRF34 (talk) 16:55, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Right, tax heaven is heaven from the point of view of those who want to avoid taxes, and terrorist heaven is heaven from the point of view of terrorists. Duoduoduo (talk) 17:03, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Well, do you have some source for this? I still wonder if the heaven bit is only used by foreigners who speak French as first language. People who use such tax havens/heavens have normally positive opinion of them, and generally call them offshore biz whatever, not tax haven/heaven. OsmanRF34 (talk) 21:14, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

No, I'm not going to look for a source. I'm a native speaker who has heard the expression "tax heaven" and more generally "... heaven" before and understood it from the context. Duoduoduo (talk) 21:21, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I've seen it too. And I've seen 'seperate' 'your late', 'their is' and much more. But what kind of people use such expressions? OsmanRF34 (talk) 21:34, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Heaven is the sky[3] and a haven is a port.[4] They are from different words, but their similar sound in English and some vague similarity in their concept has probably led to some confusion. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:44, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Yes, they are separate roots, and I have never heard of nor seen the phrase "tax heaven". μηδείς (talk) 01:58, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Nor have I, but maybe Osman has heard it somewhere. The closest I can think of is a 1960s comic who was parodying some religious leader of questionable credibility. He was asked where the donations go. He said they went into "The Lap of Heaven". When prodded on that point, he said that was the name of his Swiss bank. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:56, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Tax heaven and [5] confirm that it exists. OsmanRF34 (talk) 12:52, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

According to the editor who created that redirect, it's "a common misspelling". So there ya are. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:26, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Well, of course mispelings exist, and redirects for them. And some of the google results seem to be intentional plays on words. But there is no conventional separate concept "tax heaven". μηδείς (talk) 17:43, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

This may not be relevant, but the equivalent in French is "un paradis fiscal" which mean "a tax paradise", and never "un port fiscal" which would mean "a tax port/haven" so I guess it is not just in English that there is a linguistically-biased view that it is a good place to be (if you want to avoid tax). --Lgriot (talk) 11:27, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

That simply seems like a coup de gras. The words refuge and havre are available, and the choice of port seems intentionally misguided--one wouldn't say a tax port in English either. μηδείς (talk) 19:09, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

I am not I get this. Anyway just to be clear, in French one does not say "refuge fiscal" or "havre fiscal", the only accepted phrase is "paradis fiscal". And in French it is "coup de grâce". --Lgriot (talk) 07:08, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Ælfræd gréata?

In Old English, what was (or were) the spelling(s) of the title we now render as "the Great" for King Alfred? I thought perhaps "se Micel", but "Ælfred se Micel" gets virtually no results on Google. I saw ang:Ælfrēd se Grēata, but the OED's earliest quoted use of "great" in this sense is Wyclif, "And a name writun in the forheed of hir, Mysterie, Babiloyn the greet, modir of fornycaciouns, and of abhomynaciouns of erthe", the biblical "Whore of Babylon" passage. I can't imagine the OED missing references in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, so presumably they didn't use the ancestor of the word "great". I don't have convenient access to the Chronicle, and in what little bits of it I remember, he's simply "Ælfred cyning". Nyttend (talk) 16:50, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Does one even exist? Our article says "Consequently it was writers of the sixteenth century who gave Alfred his epithet as 'the Great', rather than any of Alfred's contemporaries." which suggests your recollections of the Chronicle could easily be the standard terms. Straightontillmorning (talk) 17:10, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

German translated needed!

I collected a package from the postman in my area (I live in Scotland), and I opened the box addressed to a former resident. I open the package and inside was a bottle of Gesalzenhirschkäferentfernungepulver. The package was from Germany. What does Gesalzenhirschkäferentfernungepulver mean? Thank you. --Ashplkoop (talk) 18:18, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Gesalzen is "salted". A Hirschkäfer is a stag beetle. Entfernung is "distance" or "removal". Pulver is "powder". At face value, you would seem to have a product that repels or possibly eradicates beetles. If you haven't noticed any around recently, maybe this was not the first consignment your predecessor received? - Karenjc 18:52, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

(after edit conflict) It doesn't look like a word compound put together by a native German speaker. The Partizip Perfekt "gesalzen-" wouldn't be used a the first part of a compound noun. It's trying to mean "salted stag-beetle-removal powder", if you insisted on at least retaining the last three elements being compounded it would be "gesalzenes Hirschkäferentfernungspulver". ---Sluzzelin talk 18:57, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

What makes you think that you can open a package that's not for you? OsmanRF34 (talk) 21:09, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

I assume you're American, Osman, as I'm aware that Americans have all sorts of laws about opening other people's post that arrives at your house, and seem to have a cultural horror of it. This is not shared by the rest of the world, and is in any case not relevant to helping answer this question. There's lots of valid reasons to open the post of former residents when it arrives, and if you'd like to discuss this further I'm sure the talk page, or your personal talk page, would be excellent places to discuss it. 86.164.30.45 (talk) 21:44, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

If you're going to make condescending remarks about citizens of other nations, at least get your facts right. It is against the law in the UK to open mail that is not addressed to you. The Postal Services Act 2000 states "A person commits an offence if, intending to act to a person’s detriment and without reasonable excuse, he opens a postal packet which he knows or reasonably suspects has been incorrectly delivered to him" [6]. In practice, prosecutions are seldom brought under this law except against people who work for the Royal Mail [7]. Nonetheless, as the appropriate action is to return a wrongly delivered letter/parcel - which may potentially be returned to the sender, who may then potentially identify the correct address of the intended recipient - opening a package addressed to someone else and removing the contents is clearly intentional and to the detriment of the intended recipient and therefore a crime (which attracts a sentence of up to 6 months jail and/or a fine of up to £5000). (I've taken the liberty of correcting the indent on the post below by 31.17.153.69 so that I could post this aside in the correct place). Valiantis (talk) 03:22, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

"intending to act to a person’s detriment and without reasonable excuse": you have no idea of anyone else's motivations in opening post addressed to previous occupants. I was not being condescending: my experience if these discussions is that Americans online tend to assume that opening post addressed to someone else is an almost unthinkably wrong and illegal thing to do, and any discussion of that is best held elsewhere. Would you like to come to the talk page, or would you like me to come to your personal talk page? I am happy to discuss this further. 86.164.30.45 (talk) 07:41, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

You'll note I am not commenting on the OP's behaviour as that would constitute legal advice. He may well have a reasonable excuse for opening this package. However, whilst I do not know a random person's reasons for opening someone else's mail, if those reasons were to act to someone's detriment, then there is a crime. I also note that you have provided no references to back up your assertion that only Americans care about opening other people's mail. This is a reference desk and your assertion appears to be your personal opinion and nothing more. OsmanRF34's comment was unnecessary. Your response to it was equally unnecessary, and contained an unreferenced assertion, which is contradicted to some degree by the actual references I have posted, given that if something may be a crime, then that at least suggests there is a cultural aversion to it. I have no interest in taking this to the talk page. I am not addressing OsmanRF34's comment; I'm addressing your unreferenced comment which you made on this page and I have nothing further to add. Valiantis (talk) 00:07, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

I'm German and the word Gesalzenhirschkäferentfernungepulver does not exist, not even in dialects. Theoretically a "Hirschkäferentfernungspulver" could exist, that would be a "stag beetle removal powder" (maybe an insecticide), a "gesalzenes Hirschkäferentfernungspulver" would be a "salted stag beetle removal powder." The adjective gesalzen is not part of the compound noun and for grammatical reasons it is gesalzenes instead of gesalzen. Also, it is Entfernungspulver instead of Entfernungepulver (s, not e!).--31.17.153.69 (talk) 22:24, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

PS: Not even in spoken language that word would exist, so a German analphabet wouldn't write a word like that either. Maybe it has been written by a foreigner.--31.17.153.69 (talk) 22:29, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

• Side question, is Waldschluchtsbeerenentferner properly constructed, or should it be Waldschluchtbeerenentferner, or something else? Thanks. μηδείς (talk) 02:00, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

  It's the latter, without the "s". I can't really explain why it's clear that "Schluchts-" is wrong, and according to the German article on Fugenlaut the rules aren't consistent either. The "Fugen-s" also appears in words that normally wouldn't use a genitive-"s", such as Hochzeitskleid, Liebeslied, Abfahrtszeit, Arbeitsamt ..., but not Schluchts-. If you said "Schluchtsgeräusche" meaning "sounds of the ravine" people would misunderstand it as "Schluchzgeräusche", "sounds of sobbing". (Not that "Schluchtgeräusche" would be a particularly likely or elegant compound, but "Talgeräusche", sounds of the valley, is easily conceivable, and googlable). ---Sluzzelin talk 06:53, 8 September 2013 (UTC) ---Sluzzelin talk 06:53, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

  In between Wald and Schlucht is another case. Waldesschlucht with the full genitive sounds more archaic or poetic than Waldschlucht. --Pp.paul.4 (talk) 09:44, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Ashplkoop, are you just making this stuff up? You did the same as Ashetuger (talk · contribs) the other day. It's not funny. Please stop trolling this board. Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:24, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

+ 1, I added a photo that I felt to fit in here, for it shows similar stuff. I am not the OP. --Pp.paul.4 (talk) 09:10, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

The question in my case, Waldschluchtbeere, came up when my friend's German roommate in college asked what a dingleberry was. Making up compounds with it was the running joke for the rest of the semester. μηδείς (talk) 17:39, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Translation from English into Manx?

Hello, I searched the whole Internet for the Manx version of the Decleration of Human Rights, but I could not find anything. Can anybody in here translate me the second article of the Decleration into Manx?

Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status.

Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

I would appreciate if somebody could help me out!--31.17.153.69 (talk) 22:19, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Try the Manx wikipedia for this. OsmanRF34 (talk) 22:29, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

I did, about a month ago, but there are not many writers, obviously.--31.17.153.69 (talk) 22:33, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

There's a partial translation at http://www.omniglot.com/writing/manx.htm / http://www.omniglot.com/udhr/celtic.htm . If anything more exists, Michael Everson a.k.a. User:Evertype might know about it... AnonMoos (talk) 23:00, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

This is addressed to the original poster. You can find Manx-speaking Wikipedians at Category:User gv.

—Wavelength (talk) 01:50, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

• In the future, try searching relevant sources at amazon.com. If you look at Campbell's Compendium of World Languages, and "search inside" for Manx you will find the same text at the end of the article, given it is used as a sample text in a lot of sources. There is also christusrex's Convent of Pater Noster, which has the Lord's Prayer in hundreds of languages. μηδείς (talk) 02:52, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

September 8

List of words that have lost an un-suffixed form

I know there are words that start with "un", where un was originally just a prefix tacked onto a word in common use, but now the "un-suffixed" form is not longer extant. I'm trying to think of even one, but can't right now. An example of what I mean would be "unbound", where "bound" is no longer a used word. Anyone know a list of those and if there is a specific name for this?--108.46.110.208 (talk) 00:32, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Unpaired word is our relevant article, which lists (inter alia) "couth", "gainly", "kempt" and "ruly". Tevildo (talk) 01:01, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Awesome! Thanks so much Tevildo. That's a great list and I've bookmarked the page.--108.46.110.208 (talk) 02:12, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Also, ion is the antonym of union, and to ite is to separate, as in "This'll ite the men from the boys". Probably. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:09, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

What's a Hoople Head?

What is the meaning of the derogatory term "Hoople Head" heard in Deadwood? Thanks. μηδείς (talk) 01:48, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

There is an entry on this at urban dictionary. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hoople%20head I know, I know, Urban Dictionary's not exactly the pinnacle of scholarly sites, but it has a pretty expansive discussion and cites to and quotes some more reliable authorities--108.46.110.208 (talk) 02:16, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

I suppose I should have said I already looked at Urban Dictionary. I am hoping we have some comments either from a reliable source or the producers. μηδείς (talk) 02:28, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

According to my Google Books query, the Concise New Partridge Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English says it means "an idiot".[8] Gabbe (talk) 11:41, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

As does The Routledge Dictionary of Modern American Slang and Unconventional English. There is, however, no entry for the expression in the Dictionary of American Regional English. Deor (talk) 14:53, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

I am sorry, I understood the sense of "idiot" from the context. What I meant was, what is a hoople--what's the etymology. Thanks. μηδείς (talk) 17:27, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Have you looked up the source mentioned in Urban Dictionary, that is, page 148 of Jonathan E. Lighter's Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang: H-O (ISBN 978-0-679-43464-1)? Gabbe (talk) 18:17, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Can't access that page. I saw the speculation it might have had to do with the town of Hoople. But one gets the feeling a word like hoople with its use of peripheral consonants is intended as humorous from the get go. μηδείς (talk) 18:29, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

The dictionary I linked above, in the entry immediately preceding the one for "hoople head", has hoople dated 1928, which at least puts it at roughly the same period as Gene Ahern's Major Hoople (introduced 1922), which may have been a source. Perhaps Ahern just thought it a funny word to use as a name. (DARE has an entry for hoople meaning a hoop such as children used to roll about, from the Dutch word for the thing.) Mott the Hoople seems to use the word in a sense closely related to the "idiot" sense. Deor (talk) 21:40, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

I didn't know those hoop things were called hooples. Sounds likely. μηδείς (talk) 22:15, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Won't a contraction of will not?

How can won't be a contraction of will not? How did that o get there? Where's the apostrophe for the missing letters i, l and l? --89.241.237.164 (talk) 07:48, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

The "o" is due to the fact that it was originally a contraction of "woll not", with "woll" being a dialectal variant of "will" in Middle and Early Modern English, based on a different ablaut form of the same stem. The contraction "won't" is attested since the 16th century, initially competing with several alternatives such as "wynnot", "wonnot", "woonnot", "wo'not" etc. Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:00, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Scotsmen still say willna(e)/winna(e).--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 09:06, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

See also [9],[10]. And to your 3rd question: the apostrophe in all the -n't forms stands for the missing "o".--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 09:14, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

But what about the missing ls? Why not wo'n't? 89.241.237.164 (talk) 10:03, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

I think it's just another spelling convention/tradition in English. I also wonder whether -ll in woll had already been vocalized before it later contracted with n't or they both were firstly contracted and then the vowel was lengthened?--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 12:55, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

A parallel contraction is shan't for "shall not". Despite the still-occasionally-seen fo'c's'le and bo's'n, English doesn't really like multiple apostrophes in a word. Lewis Carroll's defense of his nonstandard use of forms like wo'n't, ca'n't, and sha'n't (which he also used in the Alice books) can be read in his preface to Sylvie and Bruno Concluded. Deor (talk) 13:12, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Speaking of fo'c's'le, I've just been visiting my brother in Newcastle. Every time I referred to it as "Newc-səl", he looked at me strangely. Can't imagine why. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:55, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Now if you'd have been in the UK and visiting one of the Newcastles, and called it "Newkie" you may have got a bottle of beer for your troubles! --TammyMoet (talk) 11:19, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

I just wanna know about the so called conversational participants

I just wanna ask about conversational participants. I have found it very hard to find the topic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.198.232.178 (talk) 10:11, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

What do you want to know about conversational participants? What the words mean? Gabbe (talk) 11:36, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Conversation has something about, well, conversation, but also about conversents (didn't know this word existed, but that should be your conversation participants). OsmanRF34 (talk) 16:10, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

It appears that there is no such word as "conversent(s)". In any case, participants in conversations talk and/or listen. What else would you like to know? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:22, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

If the word 'conversent' doesn't exist, then the article Conversation has to be corrected. I am not sure it is not a linguistic technical term, even if I'd agree that it is not used colloquially. OsmanRF34 (talk) 16:31, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

The word exists, but not in English.[11] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:38, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Correct English spelling would be "conversants", though it doesn't seem to be a common word... AnonMoos (talk) 21:05, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

In English, "conversant" is an adjective, not a noun.[12] It means someone who knows enough about a subject to be able to carry on a conversation about it. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:12, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Wiktionary says that "conversant" is also a noun meaning "one who converses with another". Duoduoduo (talk) 16:20, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Not according to this link:[13] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:26, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

That link is to "conversent", not wikt:conversant... AnonMoos (talk) 04:39, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

• Well, perhaps conversation particle is what you are looking for? μηδείς (talk) 17:24, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

112.198.232.178 -- Not sure exactly what your question is about, but Discourse analysis is the main linguistic field which deals with participation in conversations... AnonMoos (talk) 21:05, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

From the point of view of one participant, the others are their interlocutors. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:49, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Hebrew translation, one sentence

Link (safe for work): [14] (holocaust memorial day), would be nice if someone could also translate the small print on the border. OsmanRF34 (talk) 13:38, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Here you go, romanized (English orthography) and translated: yom ha-zikkaron la-shoah u-la-gvurah tasha"v = Holocaust and Heroism Remembrance Day 5772 (2012). -- Deborahjay (talk) 19:10, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

...and the credits across the bottom edge (LTR): Israel Ministry of Information and Diaspora Affairs; Yad Vashem Holocaust Remembrance Authority; Doriel Riemer-Halperin (דוריאל רימר-הלפרין).-- Deborahjay (talk) 19:16, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. OsmanRF34 (talk) 22:09, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Turkish name for Cyprus

The Turkish name for Cyprus, namely Kıbrıs /kɯbrɯs/, confuses me. If the syllable breakdown is Kıb-rıs, then it violates the rule that syllable-final stops necessarily undergo devoicing which is reflected in orthography (so it should be Kıprıs instead). If it's Kı-brıs, then it violates the rule that syllables may not commence with consonant clusters, except in recent borrowings which this clearly isn't. Could someone clarify which one the case is and what this is due to? --Theurgist (talk) 21:36, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Seslisözlük suggests that it is Kıb·rıs. Gabbe (talk) 05:34, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

"then it violates the rule that syllable-final stops necessarily undergo devoicing which is reflected in orthography" - Where did you find this rule? Don't you confuse syllable-final with word-final consonants? Quite the contrary, I think the sonorant prevents devoicing of the preceding stop, this is probably why it became Kıbrıs.--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 20:14, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

September 9

Australian station-ery

What does an Aussie think of as the primary meaning of "station"? Does it involve sheep or trains? Conversely, does the typical antipodean call a railroad station a station or something else? Clarityfiend (talk) 02:26, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Most Australians would be comfortably aware of both meanings. But most Australians would have more to do with railway stations than sheep stations. The former seem to have become more often known as train stations during my lifetime. Dunno where that comes from. HiLo48 (talk) 02:43, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

The entry for "station" at http://australiannationaldictionary.com.au/index.php says "2. a. A tract of grazing land, usu. having a discernible centre of occupation" and "3. An extensive sheep or cattle raising establishment" and apparently nothing about a place for trains.

—Wavelength (talk) 02:52, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

That just covers senses of station that are peculiar to Australia—doesn't mean that the railway sense (along with the other senses recorded in the OED) is not prevalent in Australia. Deor (talk) 18:45, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

For alternative words, Category:Railway stations in Australia might be helpful.

—Wavelength (talk) 04:19, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks all. Clarityfiend (talk) 22:48, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

The term "Photobook" in AE

For a descriptive text on a library's holdings, I need a section heading that describes published works of nonfiction consisting mainly of photo images. Photo-book, as far as I can tell, is strictly a British English term. It isn't found in either of two AE dictionaries I just checked online, Merriam-Webster's and the American Heritage Dictionary, nor, surprisingly, in MS Encarta Online (which I'd thought purports to include "global English"). I'm writing for the Web (including readers of ELF), and hoped to find an unambiguous synonym for photo-book. Any suggestions? -- Deborahjay (talk) 08:38, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Picture book and Coffee table book come to mind. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:35, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

OP adds: I'd neglected to mention in my original description that this is the library of a historical museum specializing in the Holocaust and WWII. I checked both the pages you suggested (both being familiar AE terms) and neither are appropriate for this content. The material is documentary but not all the product of photo journalism, as the content largely came from diverse sources and acquired historico-documentary significance only after the fact, as postwar publications. -- Deborahjay (talk) 12:57, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

This may not be very helpful, but I have seen headings such as "Photo gallery", "Image gallery", "Photo album" or just "Gallery" for sections that have photographs/images. Such a gentleman 16:27, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

I would suggest "photography collections." John M Baker (talk) 17:29, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

French

When I use the adjective 'prévaux', why is the pre considered a past participle? Just like the sentence Prévaux est un mot de plusieurs significations, the plusieurs has a slight emphasis in the plu sound, as found in central regions of France. So when we use la plu, why is the plu sound considered a diphthong? Worth noting that the vaux in Prévaux is NOT a gliding vowel in many western parts of France. --Publuka Svartmense (talk) 15:23, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

It's not. μηδείς (talk) 18:59, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Firstly, I think, an English-English translation is needed here...--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 20:20, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

This post contains a series of questions, all of them puzzling. Prévaux is not an adjective in French. See Wiktionnaire for how it is the first person or second person singular indicative of prévaloir, also the imperative of the same. Pré is not considered a past participle. The only thing I can think of is that most past participles end in é. Then you say that "plusieurs" may have the first syllable emphasised in some dialects. I can't say I have noticed it myself, but you may be right. When we use "la plu". Do we? Why is the "plu" sound considered a diphthong? It isn't. And the "vaux" in 'Prévaux is not a gliding vowel in most varieties of French. Does that cover everything? Itsmejudith (talk) 20:33, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Well done! I'll also add that pré is the prefix in prévaux ( < prévaloir), and it can't stand alone. But there is also a noun as such - pré "meadow". The both are not participles at any means. I can parse la plu only as the second part of j'ai (tu as/il a/etc.) la plu though I do not know for sure how properly translate it into English (something like She liked me or She was pleased with me). Vaux is not a diphthong but a combination of a consonant plus a vowel monopthong, but sometimes such combinations can be theoretically called diphthongs (that is "two-sounds"). So everything said by the OP is very puzzling. Medeis's answer to all these should be nominated as "the best answer of the month".--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 22:12, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Publuka Svartmense -- What stress there is in French is generally on the last non-schwa vowel in a word, or the last non-schwa vowel in several words pronounced together as a closely-connected unit. French doesn't really have "free" contrastive/emphatic stress in the way that English does... AnonMoos (talk) 04:31, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

I think you are confusing "plus" from plusieurs and "la pluie". Not the same word at all. "Plu" (without an s) is only a past participle of plaire. --Lgriot (talk) 07:15, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

I agree. il a plu (inf. pleuvoir): it rained; il/elle/on a plu (inf. plaire): he/she appealed to sb (not easy to translate without context); la plus (feminine form of superlative): the most. AldoSyrt (talk) 07:26, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

In la pluie, the "u" is pronounced [ɥ] (like in lui, huile...). It is not a diphthong, it is called semi- consonant or semi-vowel in French. — AldoSyrt (talk) 07:43, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Nonstandard words

If you look for the word "irregardless" on Merriam-Webster, the definition starts with the note: nonstandard: (See) regardless. Another example is "anyways," which is listed as nonstandard by The American Heritage® Dictionary. I was wondering if there is a way to access an online list of such words that are classified as nonstandard by reputed dictionaries? Thanks, Such a gentleman 16:03, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

wikt:Category:English_disputed_terms and wikt:Category:English_nonstandard_terms should get you started. -Elmer Clark (talk) 18:42, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, Elmer. This is a good start. Such a gentleman 20:32, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Such a resource had better include the use of the word literally to mean "literally the exact opposite of 'literally.'" At this point in history there is literally no word in the English language that can be used by itself to communicate a serious and sincere lack of hyperbole. One wishes the Gayroller would expand its targets to include users of this sense. I would figuratively pay money to see that s---. ☯.ZenSwashbuckler.☠ 18:01, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

The improper use of the standard word literally is a whole nother subject. μηδείς (talk) 18:56, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Now that this has been brought up, here is what one of the editors at Merriam-Webster has to say on this! Literally blows your mind! Such a gentleman 19:21, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Is there a guideline for expressing dates in formal scholarly papers?

I recently encountered a phrase in a scholarly paper, which used, "On 3 November 1906, at the 37th meeting of the Society of Southwest German Psychiatrists in Tübingen, Germany, Alois Alzheimer presented the clinical and neuropathological characteristics of the disease (1, 2) that Emil Kraepelin subsequently named after him (3)." That made me think about the expression of dates in scholarly papers. Is there a standard rule of expressing dates, or can people do whatever they want as long as the dates are comprehensible to other readers? Below is a list of many ways to express the date:

• On 3 November 1906...
• On November 3, 1906...
• On 11/3/1906...
• On Nov/3/1906...
• On the third of November of the year 1906 AD/CE...
• On the third day of the eleventh month of the year of our Lord one thousand nine hundred and six...
• On the third day of the eleventh month of the year of the Common Era one thousand nine hundred and six... 164.107.103.197 (talk) 17:23, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Many journals have style policies that specify things like this. If there is no specific policy, the author is probably free to choose. There is certainly no standard that applies across the entire scholarly universe. Looie496 (talk) 20:15, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Agree with the answer above. I suggest OP to look at Style guide for further information. Also worth noting, Wikipedia has its own style guide too. :) Such a gentleman 20:36, 9 September 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Such A Gentleman (talk • contribs)

The OP didn't list the option 3/11/1906, which is far more common outside North America than 11/3/1906 (and far more logical too, surely). HiLo48 (talk) 21:49, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

I would avoid both 11/3/1906 and 3/11/1906 as causing possible confusion. They also missed 1906/11/03. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 00:03, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Yes, they can deceive. Someone I know from Australia arrived in the US three weeks before her 21st birthday, which was on 12th December that year. Using ID that gave her date of birth as 11/12/19xx, she was able to convince American bar staff she was old enough to drink. HiLo48 (talk) 07:25, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

September 10

Jeg snakker ikke norsk godt

Vennligst sjekk denne redigeringen. Count Iblis (talk) 00:49, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Compounding is less modest in Norwegian than in English, so it is energieigentilstander, energiegenverdien, and so on. With your final sentence (Disse energi egenverdiene være avhengig av volumet, er partisjonsfunksjonen således en funksjon av temperaturen T og volumet V), I'm a bit unsure what you are trying to say. Is an English equivalent "Because these energy eigenvalues are independent of volume, the partition function is a function of temperature T and volume V"? Gabbe (talk) 06:58, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Or perhaps "These energy eigenvalues are independent of volume, the partition function is thus a function of temperature T and volume V"? Gabbe (talk) 08:32, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

synonyms

I'm trying to find a synonym for severe corporal punishment. Are there any of them?142.255.103.121 (talk) 04:00, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

The most obvious for "normal" corporal punishment would be "paddling". If it's severe, it's probably "abuse". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:56, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

about "Müllers"

Dear Editors!

I noticed that in enwiki articles (and therefore in other Wikipedias as well) in some of the infoboxes of animals not the proper zoologist's name is shown.

For example in the article List of authors of names published under the ICZN.

Salomon Müller (1804–1864) is shown as "S. Müller", while Johannes Peter Müller (1801–1858) is simply "Müller". However, in many articles the "Müller" link points to "Salomon Müller".

I think that the link "Müller" should refer to "Salomon Müller". There are two examples for it: Exilisciurus; Celebes Dwarf Squirrel.

The following zoologists can be found in their list:

• Müller – Johannes Peter Müller (1801–1858) mainly fish
• O.F.Müller – Otto Friedrich Müller (1730–1784) insects, fauna of Scandinavia
• P.L.S.Müller, Müller – Philipp Ludwig Statius Muller (1725–1776) birds, insects, some mammals and others
• S.Müller – Salomon Müller (1804–1864) mainly fauna of Indonesia

DenesFeri (talk) 07:58, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Chinese character question

What are the Chinese characters in File:TeoChewTemple3Houston.JPG? Thanks WhisperToMe (talk) 08:20, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

hospitalize

Is it true that this is originally an Americanism? And this might be too subjective but why is it unwanted? --66.190.69.246 (talk) 08:26, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Sino-Vietnamese place names

Is there a reliable place listing Sino-Vietnamese names for cities in Vietnam? Chinese characters were in official use until "recently" (not too differently from Korean) but most of our articles don't have them. Of the main Vietnamese cities only Ho Chi Minh City, Hanoi and Đà Nẵng do. Even the corresponding Vietnamese page is strangely not helpfull most of the times. --151.41.140.58 (talk) 08:40, 10 September 2013 (UTC)