Talk:Barack Obama: Difference between revisions
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[[Special:Contributions/162.104.7.236|162.104.7.236]] ([[User talk:162.104.7.236|talk]]) 14:13, 15 May 2015 (UTC) |
[[Special:Contributions/162.104.7.236|162.104.7.236]] ([[User talk:162.104.7.236|talk]]) 14:13, 15 May 2015 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 15 May 2015 == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Barack Obama|answered=yes}} |
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I would like to change Obama's religion, he is cathlioc not christian. |
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[[Special:Contributions/162.104.7.236|162.104.7.236]] ([[User talk:162.104.7.236|talk]]) 14:14, 15 May 2015 (UTC) |
Revision as of 14:14, 15 May 2015
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Barack Obama article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
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Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Frequently asked questions To view the response to a question, click the [show] link to the right of the question. Family and religious background Q1: Why isn't Barack Obama's Muslim heritage or education included in this article?
A1: Barack Obama was never a practitioner of Islam. His biological father having been "raised as a Muslim" but being a "confirmed atheist" by the time Obama was born is mentioned in the article. Please see this article on Snopes.com for a fairly in-depth debunking of the myth that Obama is Muslim. Barack Obama did not attend an Islamic or Muslim school while living in Indonesia age 6–10, but Roman Catholic and secular public schools. See [1], [2], [3] The sub-articles Public image of Barack Obama and Barack Obama religion conspiracy theories address this issue. Q2: The article refers to him as African American, but his mother is white and his black father was not an American. Should he be called African American, or something else ("biracial", "mixed", "Kenyan-American", "mulatto", "quadroon", etc.)?
A2: Obama himself and the media identify him, the vast majority of the time, as African American or black. African American is primarily defined as "citizens or residents of the United States who have origins in any of the black populations of Africa", a statement that accurately describes Obama and does not preclude or negate origins in the white populations of America as well. Thus we use the term African American in the introduction, and address the specifics of his parentage in the first headed section of the article. Many individuals who identify as black have varieties of ancestors from many countries who may identify with other racial or ethnic groups. See our article on race for more information on this concept. We could call him the first "biracial" candidate or the first "half black half white" candidate or the first candidate with a parent born in Africa, but Wikipedia is a tertiary source which reports what other reliable sources say, and most of those other sources say "first African American". Readers will learn more detail about his ethnic background in the article body. Q3: Why can't we use his full name outside of the lead? It's his name, isn't it?
A3: The relevant part of the Manual of Style says that outside the lead of an article on a person, that person's conventional name is the only one that's appropriate. (Thus one use of "Richard Milhous Nixon" in the lead of Richard Nixon, "Richard Nixon" thereafter.) Talk page consensus has also established this. Q4: Why is Obama referred to as "Barack Hussein Obama II" in the lead sentence rather than "Barack Hussein Obama, Jr."? Isn't "Jr." more common?
A4: Although "Jr." is typically used when a child shares the name of his or her parent, "II" is considered acceptable, as well. And in Obama's case, the usage on his birth certificate is indeed "II", and is thus the form used at the beginning of this article, per manual of style guidelines on names. Q5: Why don't we cover the claims that Obama is not a United States citizen, his birth certificate was forged, he was not born in Hawaii, he is ineligible to be President, etc?
A5: The Barack Obama article consists of an overview of major issues in the life and times of the subject. The controversy over his eligibility, citizenship, birth certificate etc is currently a fairly minor issue in overall terms, and has had no significant legal or mainstream political impact. It is therefore not currently appropriate for inclusion in an overview article. These claims are covered separately in Barack Obama citizenship conspiracy theories. Controversies, praise, and criticism Q6: Why isn't there a criticisms/controversies section?
A6: Because a section dedicated to criticisms and controversies is no more appropriate than a section dedicated solely to praise and is an indication of a poorly written article. Criticisms/controversies/praises should be worked into the existing prose of the article, per the Criticism essay. Q7: Why isn't a certain controversy/criticism/praise included in this article?
A7: Wikipedia's Biography of living persons policy says that "[c]riticism and praise of the subject should be represented if it is relevant to the subject's notability and can be sourced to reliable secondary sources, and so long as the material is written in a manner that does not overwhelm the article or appear to take sides; it needs to be presented responsibly, conservatively, and in a neutral, encyclopedic tone." Criticism or praise that cannot be reliably sourced cannot be placed in a biography. Also, including everything about Obama in a single article would exceed Wikipedia's article size restrictions. A number of sub-articles have been created and some controversies/criticisms/praises have been summarized here or been left out of this article altogether, but are covered in some detail in the sub-articles. Q8: But this controversy/criticism/praise is all over the news right now! It should be covered in detail in the main article, not buried in a sub-article!
A8: Wikipedia articles should avoid giving undue weight to something just because it is in the news right now. If you feel that the criticism/controversy/praise is not being given enough weight in this article, you can try to start a discussion on the talk page about giving it more. See WP:BRD. Q9: This article needs much more (or much less) criticism/controversy.
A9: Please try to assume good faith. Like all articles on Wikipedia, this article is a work in progress so it is possible for biases to exist at any point in time. If you see a bias that you wish to address, you are more than welcome to start a new discussion, or join in an existing discussion, but please be ready to provide sources to support your viewpoint and try to keep your comments civil. Starting off your discussion by accusing the editors of this article of having a bias is the quickest way to get your comment ignored. Talk and article mechanics Q10: This article is over 275kb long, and the article size guideline says that it should be broken up into sub-articles. Why hasn't this happened?
A10: The restriction mentioned in WP:SIZE is 60kB of readable prose, not the byte count you see when you open the page for editing. As of May 11, 2016, this article had about 10,570 words of readable prose (65 kB according to prosesize tool), only slightly above the guideline. The rest is mainly citations and invisible comments, which do not count towards the limit. Q11: I notice this FAQ mentions starting discussions or joining in on existing discussions a lot. If Wikipedia is supposed to be the encyclopedia anyone can edit, shouldn't I just be bold and fix any biases that I see in the article?
A11: It is true that Wikipedia is the encyclopedia that anyone can edit and no one needs the permission of other editors of this article to make changes to it. But Wikipedia policy is that, "While the consensus process does not require posting to the discussion page, it can be useful and is encouraged." This article attracts editors that have very strong opinions about Obama (positive and negative) and these editors have different opinions about what should and should not be in the article, including differences as to appropriate level of detail. As a result of this it may be helpful, as a way to avoid content disputes, to seek consensus before adding contentious material to or removing it from the article. Q12: The article/talk page has been vandalized! Why hasn't anyone fixed this?
A12: Many editors watch this article, and it is unlikely that vandalism would remain unnoticed for long. It is possible that you are viewing a cached result of the article; If so, try bypassing your cache. Q13: Why are so many discussions closed so quickly?
A13: Swift closure is common for topics that have already been discussed repeatedly, topics pushing fringe theories, and topics that would lead to violations of Wikipedia's policy concerning biographies of living persons, because of their disruptive nature and the unlikelihood that consensus to include the material will arise from the new discussion. In those cases, editors are encouraged to read this FAQ for examples of such common topics. Q14: I added new content to the article, but it was removed!
A14: Double-check that your content addition is not sourced to an opinion blog, editorial, or non-mainstream news source. Wikipedia's policy on biographies of living persons states, in part, "Material about living persons must be sourced very carefully. Without reliable third-party sources, it may include original research and unverifiable statements, and could lead to libel claims." Sources of information must be of a very high quality for biographies. While this does not result in an outright ban of all blogs and opinion pieces, most of them are regarded as questionable. Inflammatory or potentially libelous content cited to a questionable source will be removed immediately without discussion. Q15: I disagree with the policies and content guidelines that prevent my proposed content from being added to the article.
A15: That's understandable. Wikipedia is a work in progress. If you do not approve of a policy cited in the removal of content, it's possible to change it. Making cogent, logical arguments on the policy's talk page is likely to result in a positive alteration. This is highly encouraged. However, this talk page is not the appropriate place to dispute the wording used in policies and guidelines. If you disagree with the interpretation of a policy or guideline, there is also recourse: Dispute resolution. Using the dispute resolution process prevents edit wars, and is encouraged. Q16: I saw someone start a discussion on a topic raised by a blog/opinion piece, and it was reverted!
A16: Unfortunately, due to its high profile, this talk page sees a lot of attempts to argue for policy- and guideline-violating content – sometimes the same violations many times a day. These are regarded as disruptive, as outlined above. Consensus can change; material previously determined to be unacceptable may become acceptable. But it becomes disruptive and exhausting when single-purpose accounts raise the same subject(s) repeatedly in the apparent hopes of overcoming significant objections by other editors. Editors have reached a consensus for dealing with this behavior:
Other Q17: Why aren't the 2008 and 2012 presidential campaigns covered in more detail?
A17: They are, in sub-articles called Barack Obama 2008 presidential campaign and Barack Obama 2012 presidential campaign. Things that are notable in the context of the presidential campaigns, but are of minimal notability to Barack Obama's overall biography, belong in the sub-articles. Campaign stops, the presidential debates, and the back-and-forth accusations and claims of the campaigns can all be found there. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This page is about a politician who is running for office or has recently run for office, is in office and campaigning for re-election, or is involved in some current political conflict or controversy. For that reason, this article is at increased risk of biased editing, talk-page trolling, and simple vandalism. |
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Text and/or other creative content from this version of Foreign policy of the Barack Obama administration was copied or moved into Barack Obama with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
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FYI
One of our favorite ex-editors is stirring up the "article isn't NPOV!" pot over at the Free Republic, so keep an eye out for vandalism today. Tarc (talk) 15:01, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
- Hahahaha! - "person who lives in my apartment building" is Grundle's sockpuppet defense, is it? That's too funny. -- Scjessey (talk) 16:55, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
- He does say "a crazy person who lives in my apartment building added the following reliably sourced content to that section on April 2, 2015". I suspect that is literally true. JoeSperrazza (talk) 17:00, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
- Heh. I miss Grundle sometimes. Not enough to let him edit this article, but still. Jonathunder (talk) 22:23, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
- He does say "a crazy person who lives in my apartment building added the following reliably sourced content to that section on April 2, 2015". I suspect that is literally true. JoeSperrazza (talk) 17:00, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
U.S. drone strike
My suggestion for the main article: "As president and as Commander-in-chief, I take full responsibility for all our counterterrorism operations including the one that inadvertently took the lives of Warren and Giovanni," Obama said Thursday morning in the White House briefing room, where he apologized on behalf of the U.S. government. ref. http://edition.cnn.com/2015/04/23/politics/white-house-hostages-killed/index.html Probably place this to the Foreign policy section. 91.83.252.211 (talk) 15:25, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
- While tragic, this is not biographically significant. -- Scjessey (talk) 15:47, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
- Don't agree. Quite significant as he says he is responsible for the 2 people's death. 91.83.252.211 (talk) 16:52, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
- Foreign policy of the Barack Obama administration would be suitable. Tarc (talk) 17:05, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
- It's sad, but this president, like many of those before him, is responsible for the deaths of many. I agree with Tarc. Jonathunder (talk) 22:19, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
- Foreign policy of the Barack Obama administration would be suitable. Tarc (talk) 17:05, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
Is
needed?
This edit added
to various parts of the article. How does that improve the article? Should it be removed from the article? SMP0328. (talk) 23:35, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
- The
is a non-breaking space which means that when a line wraps, it will not break between the number and the following word. The usages are debatable as there is a school of thought that a whole word like "million" should be allowed to wrap to the next line, and there's not much likelihood of someone thinking a value is only $10 by missing the "million" on the next line. On the other hand, perhaps the values are best if "million" is kept with the number. I think it's ok. Johnuniq (talk) 23:44, 24 April 2015 (UTC)- In this case, most of the article already used
, e.g.: $11.5
trillion, $3
trillion, and $1.5
trillion. For consistency I just added
where it was "missing". --Oldnewnew (talk) 00:43, 25 April 2015 (UTC)- I agree with the use of
being consistent, but I lean toward removing it throughout the article. SMP0328. (talk) 00:59, 25 April 2015 (UTC)- But then it should be removed from percent also, e.g. 70
percent. Would that be a good idea? --Oldnewnew (talk) 01:13, 25 April 2015 (UTC)- Perhaps we could a put a hyphen in place of each
. SMP0328. (talk) 03:49, 25 April 2015 (UTC)- Why would we want to replace a space with a hyphen in places where a hyphen is not normally called for? And if we did, would we use normal (breaking) hyphens, or the even more difficult to code non-breaking hyphens? 2600:1006:B16F:48A2:14E8:C473:9B00:7111 (talk) 04:22, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
- Perhaps we could a put a hyphen in place of each
- But then it should be removed from percent also, e.g. 70
- I agree with the use of
- In this case, most of the article already used
- (edit conflict) I disagree with removing the non-breaking spaces. Line breaks in situations such as these are undesirable. As for replacing them with hyphens, I am not sure that is appropriate. Non-breaking spaces are permitted per MOS:NBSP. Dustin (talk) 04:23, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
Missing consistency – Cite templates
Most of the article has cite templates. However, the Further reading section does not although the References section does. It looks like the cite templates are forgotten in the Further reading section. --Oldnewnew (talk) 00:47, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
- Done. I've added different cite templates in the section. However, there is a dead link. I'm not able to update it. Hope that someone can update it in the article:
- Zutter, Hank De (December 8, 1995). "What Makes Obama Run?". Chicago Reader. Retrieved January 14, 2008.[dead link]
- --Oldnewnew (talk) 03:02, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
- The current link should be http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/what-makes-obama-run/Content?oid=889221 2600:1006:B16F:48A2:14E8:C473:9B00:7111 (talk) 04:37, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
- Great. Thanks! I've updated with your link. --Oldnewnew (talk) 16:19, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
- The current link should be http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/what-makes-obama-run/Content?oid=889221 2600:1006:B16F:48A2:14E8:C473:9B00:7111 (talk) 04:37, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
User affiliated to Barack Obama
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
You have twice added a bogus {{connected contributor}} to this talk page: diff + diff. That is something to do with a rather cheeky accusation on your talk about a claimed COI with regard to Steinway & Sons, aka WP:POINT. Please explain your connection with the subject of this article or revert your edit. Johnuniq (talk) 03:24, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
- Answer to User:Johnuniq: Yes, I added the {{connected contributor}}. I saw that you removed the template and wrote "please don't muck around when frustrated by idiocy on your talk" in the summary field.[4] Then I added the {{connected contributor}} once again.
- I have edited the Steinway & Sons article. Most of the edits I've made in the Steinway & Sons article have been adding cite templates and restoring dead links through the entire article. These technical adjustments count for hundreds of my edits in the Steinway & Sons article. The adjustments was actually requested by User:Pyrotec on Talk:Steinway & Sons/GA1. I have made many similar, technical edits in the Barack Obama article and would like to continue to do so in the article. According to User:Theroadislong I'm affiliated to Steinway & Sons based on my many edits of the Steinway & Sons article.[5] I've made many similar edits in the Barack Obama article. If I'm affiliated to Steinway & Sons then I'm also affiliated to Barack Obama. Otherwise, User:Theroadislong's edits here and here don't make sense. By the way, I have edited other articles many times, e.g. Musical instrument, and would like to continue to do so in the Musical instrument article. Perhaps I'm also affiliated to musical instruments.
- However, I'm glad to hear that you above call it "a rather cheeky accusation on your [my] talk" page and here call it an "idiocy on your [my] talk" page. Thanks for the support. --Oldnewnew (talk) 16:19, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
- This seems a definite case of WP:POINT. Oldnewnew, I don't know what the issue in the Steinway article is and I'm not going to look into it or get involved in it, but keep the issues and discussion over in that article. Do not spill it over into this one to make a point. --OuroborosCobra (talk) 16:31, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
- This is not making a point per WP:POINT. I just take the consequence of User:Theroadislong's edit here and here. As I know there should be consistency on Wikipedia. If I'm affiliated to Steinway & Sons but not to Barack Obama then the use of the {{connected contributor}} template is inconsistent and a mess. --Oldnewnew (talk) 16:49, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
- That is exactly the definition of making a point per WP:POINT. "...making edits with which they do not actually agree, for the deliberate purpose of drawing attention and provoking opposition in the hopes of making other editors see their 'point'." Oldnewnew, end this now. I see that you are also now making a large number of edits to George W. Bush, one can conjecture that you intend to do the same thing and post the same connected contributor template. Stop now. This is absolutely not the way to get this done. Your issues have absolutely nothing to do with this article or George W. Bush. It is entirely likely the use of that template against you was incorrect, possible a violation of WP:AGF, but you are destroying any possible good will and support by going at it this way in violation of WP:POINT. Continue this, and I will report you to an administrator myself. --OuroborosCobra (talk) 17:04, 25 April 2015 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
- That is exactly the definition of making a point per WP:POINT. "...making edits with which they do not actually agree, for the deliberate purpose of drawing attention and provoking opposition in the hopes of making other editors see their 'point'." Oldnewnew, end this now. I see that you are also now making a large number of edits to George W. Bush, one can conjecture that you intend to do the same thing and post the same connected contributor template. Stop now. This is absolutely not the way to get this done. Your issues have absolutely nothing to do with this article or George W. Bush. It is entirely likely the use of that template against you was incorrect, possible a violation of WP:AGF, but you are destroying any possible good will and support by going at it this way in violation of WP:POINT. Continue this, and I will report you to an administrator myself. --OuroborosCobra (talk) 17:04, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
- This is not making a point per WP:POINT. I just take the consequence of User:Theroadislong's edit here and here. As I know there should be consistency on Wikipedia. If I'm affiliated to Steinway & Sons but not to Barack Obama then the use of the {{connected contributor}} template is inconsistent and a mess. --Oldnewnew (talk) 16:49, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
- This seems a definite case of WP:POINT. Oldnewnew, I don't know what the issue in the Steinway article is and I'm not going to look into it or get involved in it, but keep the issues and discussion over in that article. Do not spill it over into this one to make a point. --OuroborosCobra (talk) 16:31, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
Dead links
There are some dead links in the article. One of the dead links has a {{Dead link|date=October 2014}} tag but there are more than just one link with a problem. See http://dispenser.homenet.org/~dispenser/cgi-bin/webchecklinks.py?page=Barack_Obama. If someone would like to help finding the new URL for these websites or restore the dead and problematic links it would be great. --Oldnewnew (talk) 18:06, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
- Does anyone want to help me restoring the dead and problematic links in the article? I have added cite templates and restored dead links in the Steinway & Sons article. It took my hundreds of edits to do that myself! I'm not going to do the same again because the work was simply too much for just one person. --Oldnewnew (talk) 01:26, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
Michelle Robinson?
I see that on this and other pages the spouse's surname is shown as their pre-marriage surname. I started discussion about this on Template_talk:Infobox_person#Spouse_parameter_and_surnames and on Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Biography#Spouse_parameter_and_surnames but have received little response. I can find no reason for this apparent trend. Per suggestion at the discussion, I've edited this page. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 18:29, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
Drone strikes
It is totally inexcusable that there is no mention of drone strikes in Pakistan in this article's foreign policy section. All we require is a short paragraph about this extremely notable Obama administration foreign policy and the controversies relating to it. Otherwise this is article is not credible as supposedly impartial and comprehensive. JJARichardson (talk) 14:27, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
- Foreign policy of the Barack Obama administration would be more suitable. Tarc (talk) 15:41, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
- I respectfully disagree. It seems preposterous for a foreign policy issue easily as significant as action in Libya and Iraq to not be included. Not even a sentence? JJARichardson (talk) 16:35, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
- Bear in mind this article is Barack Obama's biography. Drone strikes against a specific country may be an important aspect of the foreign policy of the US government, but that does not mean they are specifically biographically significant to Barack Obama. Bear in mind Obama did not actually start drone strikes in foreign nations. That was going on a long time before he came to office. -- Scjessey (talk) 16:40, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
- While he did not invent drone strikes, they have massively expanded in scope under Obama, and their use has not been limited to Pakistan. They've become a "go to" tool for this administration. --OuroborosCobra (talk) 16:46, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
- True, but are they a significant detail in the broader life of Obama, as this summary style article hopes to encapsulate? Of course not. As Tarc said, they are significant in the context of foreign policy. -- Scjessey (talk) 16:50, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
- While he did not invent drone strikes, they have massively expanded in scope under Obama, and their use has not been limited to Pakistan. They've become a "go to" tool for this administration. --OuroborosCobra (talk) 16:46, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
- Bear in mind this article is Barack Obama's biography. Drone strikes against a specific country may be an important aspect of the foreign policy of the US government, but that does not mean they are specifically biographically significant to Barack Obama. Bear in mind Obama did not actually start drone strikes in foreign nations. That was going on a long time before he came to office. -- Scjessey (talk) 16:40, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
The drone strikes have been significantly expanded under Obama, and it's a point of contention among the left-wing that he has done so. Fundamental to Obama's foreign policy agenda has been a shift from conventional warfare to drones. Also bear in mind, as the article on the drone strikes states, that this has resulted in an increase in civilian deaths which the Pakistani prime minster has publicity opposed and which Amnesty International has spoken out against as potentially criminal. Conversely, the intervention in Libya resulted in sparing civilian deaths and had substantial levels of support internationally, including of course from the UN which is apparently perturbed by the drone strikes. JJARichardson (talk) 16:52, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
- This is not the place to discuss the ins and outs of drone strikes, although the notion that drone strikes have caused an increase in civilian deaths compared to previous methods of warfare (carpet bombing, for instance) is ridiculous. This is a summary style article. It covers broad strokes. Specifics are for the "daughter articles" like Foreign policy of the Barack Obama administration. -- Scjessey (talk) 16:57, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
This may be your opinion, but objectively the sources state a concern about drone strikes based upon the civilian deaths caused by them along with concerns about sovereignty being violated. With all due respect, I reiterate my point that were are doing our users a disservice by essentially covering up the reality of this prominent issue in the body of this article. By all means, the drones should be discussed as length in the foreign policy article. It should be a concise paragraph in this one. I don't understand how a subject addressed by national governments, the UN and organizations like Amnesty is trivial. And yes, this would be balanced by the POV that drones are a more respectable and responsible kind of warfare. JJARichardson (talk) 17:03, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
- You are obviously not personally keen on drone strikes (me neither!), but the fact remains the type of weapon used to conduct air strikes is not biographically significant. While there is plenty of coverage in the media about the rights and wrongs of drone strikes, there's little media coverage saying that drone strikes are an Obama problem. There are many things more biographically significant that are competing for attention in this article, which is why we use summary style. Any summary of foreign policy that talks about the specific weapons used to conduct said policy wouldn't be much of a summary, would it? -- Scjessey (talk) 21:22, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
- Personally I love drone strikes; terrorists going *boom* into itty bitty pieces warms the cockles of my heart, but that's neither here nor there. But yes, the specifics of using drones in war is not suited to this biographical article. Tarc (talk) 22:09, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
- Even warmer if you'd live in the same apartment complex.--TMCk (talk) 22:40, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
- Personally I love drone strikes; terrorists going *boom* into itty bitty pieces warms the cockles of my heart, but that's neither here nor there. But yes, the specifics of using drones in war is not suited to this biographical article. Tarc (talk) 22:09, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
Noting the use of any specific war weapon isn't my agenda... it's the fact that the expanded use of drone warfare in countries like Pakistan by the Obama administration is an extremely contentious policy on an international scale, as multiple reputable sources state. I still think that it's totally warranted that we mention it in this article's foreign policy section, even if it is just a sentence or two. JJARichardson (talk) 23:12, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
Business and Self Employment
Does this bit of trivia really merit its own section? --NeilN talk to me 23:52, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
- That section has been removed. SMP0328. (talk) 02:33, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
- I agree, that does not merit its own section. It does not seem very notable. --Frmorrison (talk) 13:04, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 15 May 2015
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I would like to change Obama's religion, he is cathlioc not christian. 162.104.7.236 (talk) 14:13, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 15 May 2015
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I would like to change Obama's religion, he is cathlioc not christian. 162.104.7.236 (talk) 14:14, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
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