User talk:Irtapil

Hi, I use a lot of Wikipedia sites i'm languages i'm not fluent in, let me know what i can helpfully do to give back to those communities?

Fonts (Basmala)

archived

archived 2020-03-20

"Arial" is a commercial font which is only available on a limited range of systems, so what you did is probably not as helpful as you thought it would be... AnonMoos (talk) 16:18, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

@AnonMoos: I am aware Arial is a commercial font, but it is more likely to be already installed on a reader's computer than any of the free fonts which contain the applicable characters. Most people won't want to install a new font to read a small detail on a page, free or not, and if they don't have Arial font, won't it just default to something else?

Which systems don't include Arial? Linux? That's surely a far smaller number of readers than the people who would already have a free font installed that contains characters like dotless ba. Irtapil (talk) 17:29, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

Also probably many mobile systems, to start with... AnonMoos (talk) 20:30, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

@AnonMoos: this is what it looked like before i changed the font:

it seems likely not everyone was seeing that, or it would be fixed already, and the people who see the same error seem more likely to also be windows users, or have the same glitchy font that comes ahead of Arial in the queue? Irtapil (talk) 18:25, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

the lang-ar had a less streaky option Arabic: ﷽, but it was illegibly small, in a table you can increase font size, but in line with text that's not a winner. {{script|Arab|﷽}} ﷽‎ gives the same error. Irtapil (talk) 18:36, 7 March 2020 (UTC) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Script/Arabic "Amiri (appears feathery on Windows; errors with combining shadda with kasra and in Rohingya [1])" ﷽ {{font|font=amiri|﷽}} that font looks fine in other programs, just goes weird for that character in chrome.

i'm still not sure what you mean by "not as helpful as you thought it would be" ... how helpg=ful did you think i thought it'd be? Irtapil (talk) 19:06, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

It's finicky appearance-hacking that only works for some people. and so is not a general-purpose solution to the problem. AnonMoos (talk) 20:30, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

@AnonMoos: what would your idealised solution be then? do you actually have a better idea or are you just complaining that my quick fix for a small problem isn't perfect?

As far as i gather the effect of forcing Arial font displays Arial if it is present then if it's not installed it goes back to whatever it would have displayed without that setting? so it possibly helps a lot of viewers, and has no effect for others? The "feathering" mention on the help page sounds like it is likely to be just a windows thing, and Arial comes with windows, so it likely solved it for everyone who has the problem.

The problem seemed likely to be restricted to that particular obscure character, a generalised solution (e.g. editing the template font list) would likely create WAY more problems than it solved.

i could work out the offending font - Amiri - and uninstall it from my own computer, but that solves it for only ONE user, and Amiri displays other characters fine, without streaking into the toolbars.

what proportion of users would actually not have Arial? i do wonder if some people might have Arial without the full character set? but if they don't have the Arabic characters from Arial the chances of them having a specific Arabic font are even lower.

you say Arial only works for some people, but is there any stable and extensive Arabic font they are more likely to have installed? i didn't just pick the most common font in general, i picked the font with the most extensive Arabic charachar set, out of the fonts likely to be installed on an English speakers computer. the SIL fonts would work too, but they are way less common than Arial. do you actually have a better idea? if you want to add a list of all of the fonts other than Amiri to the formatting on that one character, just go do it rather than complaining that i didn't. i even worked out which don't was causing the problem, if you want to add a solution for the tiny proportion of people who don't have serial, just go do it. but they likely weren't even getting the same glitch, so it's a bit pointless.

Irtapil (talk) 01:43, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

old {{script|Arab|﷽}} ﷽‎

new {{font|font=arial|{{lang|ar|﷽}}}} ﷽

no lang tag {{font|font=arial|﷽}}}} ﷽

no lang tag amiri {{font|font=amiri|﷽}}}} ﷽

Irtapil (talk) 02:20, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

those all display identically on my android, so, the solution does nothing, but there was also no problem to solve. if you want a solution that applies to people who do not have the problem, then that's a fairly eccentric approach...

if you actually do have a better idea i am keen to hear it. i often use arial because pages use have obscure characters, and some fonts will have these but not connect them properly, so they look completely different. i add the appropriate lang tag lang

Disambiguation link notification for March 10

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fonts

is this the right way to do a list of fonts for characters that aren't displaying properly in the default? Arabic: ◌ٔ  {{lang-ar|{{font|font=tahoma,amiri,arial|size=175%| ◌ٔ  }}}} Irtapil (talk) 08:28, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

No. I'm not quite sure what you are trying to do here, but the {{font}} template's |font= parameter must be a single font, not a list. This works:

Arabic: ◌ٔ {{lang-ar|{{font|font=tahoma|size=175%| ◌ٔ }}}}

If you want to have three fonts, you'll need three copies of the template, one for each of the fonts. Huon (talk) 21:02, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

thank you @Huon:, sorry i didn't quite explain my intention well, i meant it to show in any of the fonts on that list, not all of them. I've seen it done somewhere before, with formatting table cells, i'm not sure if it works in font template. Irtapil (talk) 22:00, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

I don't think there's an easy way to format something as "pick the one of these three fonts that works best". If it's possible at all, you'd probably need some rather fancy HTML. Huon (talk) 23:23, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

template glitch more ggggggg

what's going on here? i moved the table to another page (my user page) and it didn't keep doing it.

To me the image looks like a case of too many templates. There is a hard limit for the number of templates transcluded on one page, and if you exceed that limit, any further templates just don't work any more. A little more context would be helpful her: Where did the table come from, what's the diff of the edit you are asking about, and what is "it" that the table didn't keep doing? Huon (talk) 21:02, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

thankyou @Huon: a hard limit would explain it. is there somewhere i can get more info on that? it was from the urdu alphabet page, but i removed it now. Irtapil (talk) 22:03, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

There is Help:Template#Expand limits and Wikipedia:Template limits. Apparently what's limited is not the number but the ultimate size. Huon (talk) 23:23, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

@Huon: size in what sense? would this mean switching from templates to an alternative, like style formatting in tables, doesn't help? Irtapil (talk) 14:34, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

I'm not an expert, but the pages linked above say that something called "Post-expand include size" is the measure that's limited. I'd read that as "the amount of text and/or code that is put into the page through the template". For example, {{red|Hello world!}} is turned into <span style="color: red;">Hello world!</span> - that's 45 characters, so it counts for 45 bytes against the maximum post-expand include size of 2,048,000 bytes. You could put that template some 50,000 times on a page. If a template generates not just 45 bytes but, say, 1000, then you can have it 2,048 times. Note that non-Latin characters may take more than one byte each. Style formatting in the tables isn't expanded and thus doesn't count against the limit at all, so that may indeed serve as an alternative if possible. Huon (talk) 22:24, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia font policy and tagging

Sorry for belated reply, but the official Wikipedia policy governing font-face specification is here: Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Text formatting#Font family

Also, you can specify a list of fonts (with the last on the list as the fallback default) in HTML code, but I'm not sure how or if this carries over into Wikipedia templates. See this example from further down on the linked page: AnonMoos (talk) 14:12, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
<span style="font-family:Gentium Plus, Charis SIL, Doulos SIL, serif">

Copying licensed material requires attribution

Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you copied or moved text from Arabic diacritics into Rasm. While you are welcome to re-use Wikipedia's content, here or elsewhere, Wikipedia's licensing does require that you provide attribution to the original contributor(s). When copying within Wikipedia, this is supplied at minimum in an edit summary at the page into which you've copied content, disclosing the copying and linking to the copied page, e.g., copied content from [[page name]]; see that page's history for attribution. It is good practice, especially if copying is extensive, to also place a properly formatted {{copied}} template on the talk pages of the source and destination. The attribution has been provided for this situation, but if you have copied material between pages before, even if it was a long time ago, please provide attribution for that duplication. You can read more about the procedure and the reasons at Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia. Thank you. If you are the sole author of the prose that was copied, attribution is not required. — Diannaa (talk) 19:35, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

@Diannaa: are you a human? am i in trouble? how fix edit summary after the fact? Irtapil (talk) 19:44, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

I already fixed it by adding an edit summary after the fact. Like this. Most people don't know about this rule. You are not in trouble.— Diannaa (talk) 20:08, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

@Diannaa: thanks Irtapil (talk) 18:13, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

@Diannaa: do i need to do this when coping stuff to and or from my user page and sandbox? e.g.

• If i copy draft material from my sand box do i need to use the copy template or something? I imagine this would be useful for avoiding accusations of plagiarism? is {{copied}} the right template to use?
• I copied an old version of the Phoenician_alphabet to my user page, is the link to the relevant edit / version sufficient and appropriate attribution? (it contained some poorly referenced material, which was not well attributed enough for the article, but which i found interesting and wanted to look into later.)
• I have several old or alternate version of content from various articles i'm working on. I presume when copying from a Wikipedia article to my own page, a link to the page is sufficient? My user page doesn't need i be encyclopedia quality? if i include these in an article after working on them separately, do i use the {{copied}} template? do you have any pointers for how to use that in this situation, e.g. what info to include?

cheers Irtapil (talk) 04:59, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

p.s. @Diannaa: how do i add an edit summary to an existing edit if and when i forget to do it before i hit "publish". Your link didn't really explain how to add it. Irtapil (talk) 05:28, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Please provide attribution each time you copy within Wikipedia, unless you are the sole author of the text being copied. If you forget to do it at the time you do the edit, you can add the attribution later, by making a small but useful edit and giving the required attribution in your edit summary. Here is an example.— Diannaa (talk) 13:46, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks @Diannaa: Sorry, i'm not sure if i'm understanding.

• To add edit notes to a page's history i need to make an additional edit and add notes when i publish that edit? I can't add or change notes for an old edit?
• Given there's an exception for "unless you are the sole author of the text being copied", that means i don't need to add the copy template if i am just copying something i composed on my user page or sandbox page?
• is there a way to avoid accusations of plagiarism if into an article i paste a large section of text or a table that i composed in my sandbox? i was composing things on the article pages, hoping someone would jump in and collaborate (and i guess just because it seemed simplest). But i left one page in a bit of a messy unfinished state for a few days and i think that might be what attracted a massive rollback. So i'm currently working on a version of that in my sandbox, but this seems to create different problems.

Irtapil (talk) 20:20, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

No, you cannot add or change the edit summary for an edit you already dld.

You don't need to include attribution if you copy your own prose from your sandbox into an article.

I don't know which messy work of yours someone removed or why. What reason did they give in their edit summary? — Diannaa (talk) 13:53, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

The edit summaries:

• "Reverted to revision 930263664: I'm sorry but Wikipedia pages are not sandboxes for anyone to expertiment with their rudimentary knowledge of a topic. Please take to the talk page and gain consensus for your edits (TW)"
• Repeating the above revert after I undid it: "Reverted to revision 930263664: I am sorry you cannot make these major unencyclopedia edits without previous discussion on the talk page and the garnering of a consensus; per WP:BRD you made the edits, I have reverted them, now you need to discuss them on the talk page first. They seem to be copied from somewhere. They are not in any summary style of Wikipedia (TW)"
• Then found another article I was working on. "Reverted to revision 953613498.: You cannot do these huge opaque data dumps clearly copied from somewhere in longstanding pages. You don't have the ability to explain what you have done in English. It is only tables and more tables. The articles become unreadable (TW)"

I don't understand Why they can't scroll post tables the way I scroll paragraphs. Irtapil (talk) 17:19, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

Re:Urdu alphabet

Dear User:Irtapil, thank you for your message on my talk page. I understand that you put a lot of work into editing the Urdu alphabet article. I glanced at your version and although I do not see anything that stands out as problematic, perhaps User:Fowler&fowler does. I would recommend waiting for him to respond there and see what he has to say before you consider reverting, although the choice is ultimately yours. I hope this helps. With regards, Anupam^Talk 06:12, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. @Anupam: Sorry i didn't see this till after my most recent message on your page. I can see bits F&F might have objected to, i got interrupted while working on the page and thus there were a few messy/unfinished tables sitting there for a few days. I want to try and fix these issues, so there's something optimal to discuss. But while i was working on that F&F repeated the reversion to the much shorter and poorly references version from 6 months ago (not Wikipedia quality because large sections of it were based on a small number of sources). By "the choice is ultimately yours" do you mean it would not be unreasonable to undo the reversion and keep working on it? I nearly did that, but i know "edit wars" are very much frowned upon. Is there a right place to save and work on an alternate version for discussion? Irtapil (talk) 06:35, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

Elsewhere they say content being there for 3 weeks counts as reason for it to stay, but the stuff that was in the Urdu Alphabet page much longer, and cintributed to by about 20 other editors, doesn't qualify? Irtapil (talk) 04:11, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Ethnologue

Hi Irtapil, here's a workaround that might be of interest for you. Ethnologue's primary links haven't changed, so you can actually look at older versions via the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine. So current links are behind a hard paywall, e.g. Urdu. But if you go before Oct 2019 here, you will have full access to older versions (occasionally there is a soft paywall, so you just have to click around a bit until you an unlocked view). Language family pages are still free.[1] –Austronesier (talk) 17:49, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Is the paywall new? Are the pages linked prominently supposed to be the free summaries? should i point it out if i come across paywalled things in an infobox? Irtapil (talk) 05:23, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

The soft paywall (5 views per month) was introduced c. 2 yrs ago, the hard paywall with the outlandish subscription prices end of last year. AFAIK all pages evoked by infobox parameter "ref" are now hidden behind a hard paywall for IPs from industrialized coutries. So they are accessible for some readers, for many others not. A few editors already talked about it, but we ended up with a "wait-and-see" attitude.

Paywalled sources are not per se tabu, in fact WP is against WP:FUTONBIAS, but Ethnologue is actually meant as an auxilliary source, so the paywall really brings the promiment position of Ethnologue into a questionable position. The Ethnologue reference can certainly remain there but not as a primary index. I hope more editors will join the discussion in the project talk page. –Austronesier (talk) 17:18, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, non free sources have their place, hence my suggestion being adding another rather than replacing them. A big part of the point of Wikipedia is to make the i formation in difficult to access resources, accessible to a wider audience. Irtapil (talk) 17:31, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Why "futon"? what's the furniture connection? (i double checked the page you linked and there's no explanation, the sock puppet page had a photo of an actual sock puppet LOL.) Is it an acronym or a reference to "couch surfing"?

I suppose i may as well ask a general question while i'm at it, Where can i find good quality freely available linguistic sources? is there a "PubMed Central for linguistics"?

Irtapil (talk) 17:53, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Formatting on talk pages

Please learn how to format the first message of a new section. On the first level, paragraphs are separated by empty lines. It goes like this:

Comment 1. Paragraph 1.

Comment 1. Paragraph 2. ~~~~
:Comment 2. Paragraph 1.
:Comment 2. Paragraph 2. ~~~~
::Comment 3. Paragraph 1.
::Comment 3. Paragraph 2. ~~~~

Nardog (talk) 17:22, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

@Nardog: why do you care do much? Irtapil (talk) 12:12, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Because attribution is essential. If you don't get indentation and signatures right, people wouldn't be able to know who said what. And that would be detrimental to the purpose of a talk page, which is not only to discuss content and policy but to provide record of what was discussed and how decisions were made for others to see. Nardog (talk) 00:08, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

ah, now i'm confused, i thought you were objecting to me indenting first post, but that doesn't make attribution ambiguous. so what were you objecting to? Irtapil (talk) 12:18, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Of course it does. Indentation indicates subordination. If you're not replying you shouldn't indent. Nardog (talk) 07:03, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

Disambiguation support request

Hi,

While working on article Islamic advice literature I realized that word 'Qisas' is appearing in different meaning at Qisas Al-Anbiya it comes as story/anecdote telling (alternative spelling Kissa). And in article named Qisas seems to come as revenge. Need support in creating proper disambiguation page and links so reader do not end up in unexpected pages.

Of course article Islamic advice literature too needs support in update and expansion since lot of scholarly references are available in books and google scholar too.

Thanks in advance and greetings

Bookku (talk) 08:04, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

Hi @Bookku: sorry, i'm not very knowledgeable about this. But i'll see if i can find you some links of where to find the answers. Irtapil (talk) 11:04, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

Ways to ask general questions about editing Wikipedia:

• you can ask questions at the Wikipedia:Teahouse. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse
• you can write {{help me}} on your own talk page with the question to attract an answer from someone who knows.

specific places for help with that question:

• you can suggest that page for expansion at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Islam

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Islam

• if the article has content but not many references you can add {{more citations needed}} to the top of the article.(but it looks like the article is short but well referenced, so suggesting it for expansion on Wikipedia:WikiProject_Islam is probably more suitable.)
• help on redirects. Wikipedia:Redirect#How_to_make_a_redirect

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirect#How_to_make_a_redirect

• help on disambiguation pages Help:Disambiguation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Disambiguation

Irtapil (talk) 11:27, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

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Speedy deletion nomination of Category:User Mtei

A tag has been placed on Category:User Mtei requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the category has been empty for seven days or more and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:42, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

if you

are capable of your user page overload - you should get the fact the burklemore hasnt edited for a while - you need to get a sense of asking questions of editors who havent edited for a while might not just answer (or who knows maybe they will) JarrahTree 14:28, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

@JarrahTree: Hi. I'm not sure what you're talking about? can you link the page this refers to, please? Irtapil (talk) 12:06, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Burklemore1&oldid=962345798

user pages and talk pages of other users are usually for their discretion -adding a label like that is

(a) a problem in that it is up to an editor if they so choose - it is not for others to attribute such items

(b) the editor hasnt edited for a while and may have left wikipedia without saying so

(c) the australian biota project has some very dedicated editors who carry on regardless, if you choose to create such an item, wp:AGF and a slight matter of courtesy could involve actually letting the participants know of the tag... JarrahTree 01:48, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

@JarrahTree: I still don't know what you are referring to. Aus biota is a start, i thought you were talking about Kashmiri language.

What did i do? (I can't tell if it sounds like the things i was intending to do, or something i might have done accidentally.)

'do i need to fix it? or just do it differently next time?

what does "could involve actually letting the participants know of the tag" mean? let them know where? how? i put a user box on the project page, isn't the project page the place to let people know about it?

are you even talking about the userbox?

'what does "user page overload" mean?'

Irtapil (talk) 21:16, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

@JarrahTree: you seem to be talking about a message i left on somebody else's talk page? (@Burklemore:) but why do you object? what are you saying i should have done differently? you put stuff on my talk page, that seems to be the way they're supposed to be used?

why does it matter if they've left?

Irtapil (talk) 21:27, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

"a slight matter of courtesy could involve actually letting the participants know of the tag" but they get notified of things i put on their talk page? Irtapil (talk) 21:36, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Meitei Mayek script

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If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines.

This message was automatically delivered by QEDKbot. 10:12, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 16

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Urdu alphabet, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Persian, Alif and Naskh (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver).

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 06:10, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:User Mtei

A tag has been placed on Category:User Mtei requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the category has been empty for seven days or more and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 14:42, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Meitei Mayek script

A tag has been placed on Category:Meitei Mayek script requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the category has been empty for seven days or more and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 14:45, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Rasm

Hiya Irtapil. Thanks for your fine work at Rasm. Do you know how to do/pass a picture in the right hand corner? JorgeLaArdilla (talk) 21:16, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

@JorgeLaArdilla: It depends what you want it in the corner of (table, section, or whole page)?

To align an image to the right you add "right" between two pipes "|" like this

[[File:File.png|40px|thumb|right|caption text]]

If you want the picture in the top right of a section you put that between the heading and the text of the section. Any text following that line of code will go to the left of the image (if the reader's screen is wide enough).

Which image do you want in which corner? (and which page, if you don't mean Rasm?)

Irtapil (talk) 06:02, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

Ali Mahmoud Al Suleiman

Hi how are you ? can you help us with this article Stay safe Regards Mevlut Bin Omar (talk) 18:53, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

sorry @Mevlut Bin Omar: it seems i'm too late, the article has already been deleted. But i don't know who that is, so it's unlikely i could have helped. Irtapil (talk) 12:10, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for November 23

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Urdu alphabet, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Hindustani.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 06:18, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

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Chris Watson

There is no requirement that each sentence have an inline citation. I agree that having a bunch of citations at the end of a paragraph makes it hard to distinguish individual sources, but that does not mean that the prior sentences are unsourced. Tagging them doesn't help anything. Ivar the Boneful (talk) 15:09, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

@Ivar the Boneful: reminder Wikipedia:Edit_warring#The_three-revert_rule

Irtapil (talk) 15:26, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

@Ivar the Boneful: did you even look at the third edit you reverted? i wasn't using the citation needed template, i found something more specific. Irtapil (talk) 22:12, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

what is going on with this image?

{{help me|why does this image distort it when i try to add an updated cropped version?}}

the image file i was trying to crop

• i tried to crop an image and it distorted weirdly.
• i tried again and the new version looked wrong but the previous version looked ok.
• i reverted to the previous version and that looked wrong, but… see screencap below.

see highlighting

Hm, I took a look and was unable to duplicate the error! The image does not appear distorted to me no matter which version I'm looking at. This might be something local to your computer. I'll leave the help me box up for now since I don't know what might be causing it. Howicus (Did I mess up?) 03:53, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

I can second being unable to reproduce what's in your screenshot—that's pretty weird. My only guess is that your browser is doing something funky, so you could either try restarting it or viewing the image on another one. Double checking it myself, the current revision seems to look good regarding the white border.

If you're curious to know an alternative way to crop an image, then you can look into CropTool, which is a gadget for Wikimedia Commons (note you can also just use its website). Let me know if you have any further questions, and happy editing! Perryprog (talk) 00:47, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

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AfD for deaths due to COVID-19 and related RfC

Hi. Thanks for commenting at the recent AfD for the above list. There is now an ongoing discussion around the best way to split the list, if any, if you wish to comment further. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 17:45, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Taiwan has an RFC

Taiwan has an RFC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. STSC (talk) 02:02, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

Archiving on Taiwan

Hello Irtapil. I reverted one of your edits on Talk:Taiwan. Actually, it the discussion was already archived. As the page has a lot of frequent discussions, the bot also archives frequently (60 days). However, it is best to avoid reinstating old discussions. I would suggest you start a new discussion and link to the older one to provide a context.--DreamLinker (talk) 17:30, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

@DreamLinker: but someone on that talk page got angry at me for starting a new discussion on an old topic, like you just suggested? Irtapil (talk) 16:56, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

"Island" in Masri

@Nehme1499 and HitomiAkane: This refers partly to a topic from User_talk:HitomiAkane/Archive_1, but it seemed more appropriate to put it on my own talk page? You were talking about some inaccurate transliterations in arz: and i think I've possibly found another, but i know hardly any Arabic so i don't know weather it actually is inaccurate. This looks like a problem, but i'm way out of my depth, so tagging @Nehme1499: who spotted a similar problem and seemed to come up with a decent plan to repair it. There are a huge number of articles in arz.wikipedia.org that use the Arabic spelling Arabic: ايسلاند for the English word "island" in the title, or the body. All of these pages (or at least the dozen or so i checked) had the same author arz:مستخدم:HitomiAkane and no other human editors. This struck me as weird, because that is one of the very few words i know in Arabic, and the article on Islands in general is under that title arz:جزيره in Egyptian wiki. The transliteration was often in place names, but even in place names things like Island (or Lake or Mountain) get translated, with fairly rare exceptions Loch Ness vs Lake Geneva. The transliterstion of island also uses the Arabic dotted ya ي unicode character, whereas the spelling of the name of Masri Wiki uses the ی terminally undotted Farsi version of Ya. There are no matches to this spelling with the ی undotted Ya. I'm not sure how i could go about finding a suitable speaker of the dialect to give an informed second opinion? I got the impression user:Nehme1499 speaks Lebanese? Irtapil (talk) 17:55, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for pinging me. The issue is that in Lebanese we strictly use characters in exactly the same way they are used in Arabic (so without the terminal ی, or the use of other characters like ڤ present in the farsi alphabet). So, I don't have in-depth knowledge of writing systems in Arabic dialects that don't strictly follow the Arabic alphabet. For me, what should be done is simple: if the title is a "given name", like Grand Island, then Island should be transliterated into ايسلاند. If island is used to indicate the geographical entity, like Quinchao Island, then we should use جزيره (or whatever the correct word for "island" is in Egyptian Arabic). Nehme₁₄₉₉ 18:32, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks @Nehme1499:

Do you know where i could find an appropriate person to talk to? or a right place to mention it?

The different unicode character thing mostly just indicated to me that all of the usages of that spelling were the same user with the same keyboard (without having to check the edit history for all of the pages).

A few were names of football clubs and i've noticed from Bayern Munich "Fußball-Club Bayern München" that which words get translated in that can be a bit weird (Bayern is the German name for Bavaria, but in German Munich is München). Are there any football clubs with Island in the name that might be on there with multiple editors to compare?

Irtapil (talk) 19:19, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

I don't really know of Egyptian wikipedia editors. Maybe you can try asking at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Egypt, though it doesn't seem to be super active. I've found this football club called Canvey Island F.C.; the Farsi wiki (rightly) uses ایسلند. Nehme₁₄₉₉ 19:31, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

User_arz-N

@Irtapil: Thank you for pinging me, First of all, and as @Nehme1499: mentioned, it was inaccurate transliterations for the word (Island) in those articles, I'll try to fix them all as soon as possible, the second issue that Masri Wiki uses the ی terminally undotted Ya as all Egyptian write it that way, in addition to another set of characters explained here to expand our options when translating, thank you all, HitomiAkane (talk) 20:44, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

article translation request ru: Альянс врачей

Is there a standard way to request translations? or is sunshine responding to this able to do this?

• article translation request ru: Альянс врачей

I'm looking for someone to translate an article from Russian Wikipedia that does not seem to have an article in English Wikipedia, ru: Альянс врачей. They an organisation being mentioned in recent news about Alexey Navalny. There's no information about them in English Wikipedia but there is extensive article in Russian Wikipedia. I can't find any mention of them in English Wikipedia using that specific Russian name "Альянс врачей", or a literal translation "Alliance of Doctors".

Irtapil (talk) 08:34, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

Hi @Irtapil - Please have a look at the procedures at WP:TRANSLATETOHERE . CommanderWaterford (talk) 18:23, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll try Wikipedia:Translators_available#Russian-to-English. Irtapil (talk) 00:52, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

Draft: == article translation request [[:ru: Альянс врачей]] ==

I found you on the list: Wikipedia:Translators_available#Russian-to-English.

I'm looking for someone to translate an article from Russian Wikipedia that does not seem to have an article in English Wikipedia, ru: Альянс врачей. They an organisation being mentioned in recent news about Alexey Navalny. There's no information about them in English Wikipedia but there is extensive article in Russian Wikipedia. I can't find any mention of them in English Wikipedia using that specific Russian name "Альянс врачей", or a literal translation "Alliance of Doctors".

Irtapil (talk) 00:52, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the pointer! I've read the ru article and it comes across as a political outpost of the said organisation or their vocal supporters. While it was an interesting read for me due to my interest in the ongoing political developments around Navalny, in the spirit of the WP:Soapbox I am not sure that verbatim translation into the en space is the right way to go, unless it becomes notable with the same level of detalisation in the English language media. BACbKA (talk) 17:18, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

@BACbKA: Thanks for having a look. I agree a direct translation is not ideal if the original is a bit skewed. Now that someone has started a stub we can build on it from English language sources. I've definitely heard of them elsewhere now that i know who they are. Irtapil (talk) 10:03, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Article

I've started the basics, Alliance of Doctors, will add more later. Brandmeister^talk 18:59, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. It's strange it wasn't there already. Irtapil (talk) 15:57, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

May 2021

Your recent editing history at 1978 smallpox in the United Kingdom shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See the bold, revert, discuss cycle for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you do not violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.
Your repeated moving the article to Last confirmed death from smallpox is against consensus on the Talk page. I suggest you move it back before you get blocked DeCausa (talk) 18:13, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

@DeCausa: it wasn't 24 hours, they were a week apart.

Did you read what I posted above? “Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you do not violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.” There’s no excuse for moving the article a third time clearly against consensus. DeCausa (talk) 20:44, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

@DeCausa: two people isn't a consensus any more than it's an outbreak! wiki is a frustrating stagnant mess. The default is always on the side of stagnation. Irtapil (talk) 20:57, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

That’s right, you got it. WP:CONSENSUS means the status quo stays until there’s a consensus to change. One person’s “stagnation” is another’s “opinionated editor who knows better than everyone else and everyone would see that if only they weren’t so dumb and blinkered”. I don’t think Wikipedia will catch on. DeCausa (talk)

@DeCausa: but they end up fairly biased, especially for articles with not much activity. because the first snd often only people to show up are the original authors, who obviously like it now it was. or for very active articles it ends up a pointless doom spiral of endless debate, which is way more reading than the references i used for the edit. I tried looking up tiawan for some quick background, that mess is so stuck that i think i'd learn more from a britanica CD ROM. Irtapil (talk) 07:34, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

@DeCausa: whereas the president of Afghanistan's page had the local translation of his name as something obscene about a donkey in Dari, and it had been there for months. this website is a mess. Irtapil (talk) 07:38, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

Notice of edit warring noticeboard discussion

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. Thank you.Graham Beards (talk) 18:45, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

ughmf et m

2001:8004:2778:2757:B189:7FA4:7045:D87A (talk) 07:48, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

Irtapil (talk) 07:56, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

2001:8004:2778:2757:E488:800C:1124:D29C (talk) 07:58, 12 June 2021 (UTC)