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July 18

19th century medicine on sexual health

In the 19th century, how much onanism did a person have to practice in order to be considered medically an onanist or a person addicted to onanism? Are the physicians referring to masturbation or coitus interruptus or either one or both? Sneazy (talk) 00:55, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A wise man once said: "Don't be a wanker!" DavidLeighEllis (talk) 01:02, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
On the lines of a classic definition of excessive drinking: more than the diagnosing physician. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 212.95.237.92 (talk) 13:26, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
According to quintessential 19th century physicians such as John Harvey Kellogg, any masturbation was too much. DavidLeighEllis (talk) 15:40, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You may find A Treatise on the Diseases Produced by Onanism by Samuel-Auguste Tissot (1728-1797) instructive (not current medical advice though). Also, the snappily titled Onanism, Spermatorrhoea : Porneio-kalogynomia-pathology : Boyhood's Perils and Manhood's Curse : An Earnest Appeal to the Young of America (1858) by Seth Pancoast MD. They don't write 'em like that any more. Alansplodge (talk) 21:22, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Interesting that he uses "Pederasty" to refer to what we'd now call "zoophilia". Our article (Pederasty#Etymology and usage) doesn't countenance this meaning - is it Pancoast's personal idiosyncracy, or does our article require the historical usage to be expanded? Tevildo (talk) 19:12, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Mental inheritance

Are traits like foolishness, psychotic thinking, awkwardness, laziness, aimlessness etc.. genetically inherited ?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.15.60.174 (talk) 08:43, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It rather depends on the causes of those traits. I suggest you read Biological inheritance.--Shantavira|feed me 10:36, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I work with teenagers in high schools. I've been in a good cross section of schools. Many of these kids are what most adults would call lazy and aimless, and that's why many of the kids are lazy and aimless. It's very much a peer pressure thing. Those who show high commitment and effort are not conforming with the group ethic, and tend to be isolated from the bulk of students. So those traits for those students are definitely not inherited. HiLo48 (talk) 10:54, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Nature versus nurture might be another good entry. As far as I can see, and I think this is quite interesting, very few things that matter between humans are mostly one or the other. For instance in HiLo48's observation many children do buck peer group pressure even with the consequences outlined. Dmcq (talk) 11:38, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It's unlikely to be anything as simple as genetic inheritance - and even if there were genes for (say) "foolishness", I think it's impossible that all people who are foolish became foolish for genetic reasons. All of these attributes are likely to be the result of a complex interplay of many, many genes and wrapped up with how the person lived their early lives. Note also that some traits such as poor education are passed down through a family even without genetics being involved. Poorly educated parents are much less likely to read books to their children or even have books in the house - resulting in their kids being poorly educated too. This is "inheritance" - but not through genetics. But now consider a gene that might cause poor eyesight - if neither parents nor child can see well enough to read - then the child's education might suffer as a result - and then poor education would be inherited genetically but still entangled with environmental factors because with better technology the child could maybe listen to audio books and still get a good education despite a genetic problem.
All of these traits are going to be like that. A mix of genetic and environmental causes.
That said, there are conditions such as Asperger syndrome (which I happen to have) which frequently results in "awkwardness" in social situations and which is thought to have a strong genetic component. But we know that there are plenty of awkward people who don't have Asperger syndrome - so it's not correct to say that "awkwardness is always genetically inherited" - because it's clearly not. But you also can't say "awkwardness is never genetically inherited" because we know that it sometimes is.
This is not a simple question. Your suggested symptoms are far too vague to be pinned to genetics or not-genetics. I'd bet that every single one of those symptoms has some genetic component produced by many, many genes - and some nurture component produced by many, many issues during childhood and beyond.
Worse still, these are complex traits. I'm pretty foolish when it comes to investing money - but razor sharp when it comes to computer programming - do I have a "success-with-money" gene that's defective and a "success-with-computer-programming" gene that's working just great? No. That level of specificity simply isn't possible at the genetic level. Humans only have 20,000 genes (according to Human genome) - there simply aren't enough of them for there to be such specific genes as a "foolishness-with-money" gene. So that trait - even if it were 100% genetic - would come from a subtle blend of hundreds of genes. Tracking down the effect of those genes to behavior with investments would be completely impossible. Hence, there is unlikely to be a scientific answer to this question.
SteveBaker (talk) 13:30, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you everyone for your opinions! I want to ask whether these so called "genetic" components responsible for our personality and behavior be overcome manually ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.15.60.174 (talk) 12:13, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That's what people have said basically. It is like running, it has a genetic component but it only contributes a part to being a good runner. A person who practices running will most likely beat a person who has the genes of a champion but slobs in front of a television. Dmcq (talk) 14:21, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Making oil from CO2

If we had enormous amounts of very cheap electricity, for example from nuclear fusion, would it be possible to produce oil (gasoline) from the CO2 in the air plus water (or whatever other byproduct is produced from burning oil), basically reversing the combustion reaction? I found the Synthetic fuel article but that's about converting stuff like coal or natural gas into oil, not CO2. 114.252.96.225 (talk) 13:34, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Where is our article on reverse combustion? There are these folks who have worked on it. And some have spliced bacterial genes to do the work; Craig Venter mentioned in passing similar work in a TED talk. 88.112.41.6 (talk) 18:05, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It's been discussed here a few times, I have found an article on the matter, but it's escaping me just now. CS Miller (talk) 19:30, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The Sabatier reaction will produce methane from water and carbon dioxide (reverse burning). However, most hydrogen is commercially produced by the partial oxidation of methane, so unless you have a very cheap supply of electricity for the electrolysis of water, it's a non-starter. Once you have methane, you can then reverse-crack the methane to longer hydrocarbons (methane reformation). CS Miller (talk) 19:39, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Plants and green algae do the job of converting CO2+light into plant matter - and there are several techniques out there to turn plant material back into hydrocarbons...not exactly oil or gasoline because those are very complex mixtures of chemicals - but certainly something you could run your car on. Normally, we'd expect to provide the light to the plants using sunlight - but if you truly had vast amounts of cheap electricity, then synthetic light might works out well. You can read about this in our Algae fuel article. SteveBaker (talk) 19:30, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
One thing that has occurred to me is that Iceland has basically 100% of its energy from geothermal, but there hasn't been any way to export it. If Iceland could use the power to synthesize oil from simpler compounds, you might have something. Robert (talk) 20:28, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Cellulosic_biofuel is all about taking CO2 and making something that can fuel a car. If you do it right, you can even make the whole process carbon negative, meaning that it would tend to reduce the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere. Big companies like British Petroleum have invested heavily in researching this topic. SemanticMantis (talk) 21:49, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
88.112.41.6's comment deserves a second mention. The first link refers to the recently patented device that catalytically converts carbon dioxide and water directly into hydrocarbons including octane. However, due to a lack in funding for further development, the device remains hopelessly inefficient. Plasmic Physics (talk) 23:23, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Well, it's never going to be at a point where 100% of the energy you put into generating this fuel comes back out again when you burn it...that's just the laws of thermodynamics. So this is unlikely to be as efficient as (say) an electric car. I doubt that it'll ever be as efficient as just electrolyzing the water to get hydrogen and using that in an internal combustion engine. The business of consuming CO2 and that being useful in reversing global warming is a red herring - sure, you suck out CO2 - but then the exact same amount of CO2 comes right back when you burn the resulting fuel. At best it can only be carbon-neutral. It'll never be better for the environment than using pure electric or hydrogen-power. SteveBaker (talk) 02:29, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Just a few notes. I did not expect a hundred percent of energy consumed to be extracted, I'm also well aware of the thermodynamic laws; nor did I mention global warming. However, economics determines that as long as there is a demand, there is opportunity for supply -so it does not need to be more efficient than electric or hydrogen-powered cars, or what have you. Plasmic Physics (talk) 03:25, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
What about using photosynthesis to produce ordinary (hydrocarbon) biofuel, using a tiny fraction of that biofuel (or clean energy) to split hydrogen from carbon, and then burying the carbon? It would surely reduce atmospheric CO2, if an efficient reverse mining process is used to dispose of the carbon. I can see that it would lower the useful energy by essentially ignoring the carbon content of the fuel, but why is it not done? Is it too inefficient (because the carbon is either unused or still turned into atmospheric CO2) or just too expensive? 217.88.163.235 (talk) 07:51, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That would be very inefficient and far too expensive to be viable on a large scale. The efficient way of using photosynthesis is to (a) grow woody plants, (b) turn them into charcoal by letting them dry and then heating them in the absence of oxygen, (c) bury the charcoal. Looie496 (talk) 15:16, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Right now, just getting people to stop digging up the carbon that's already conveniently buried (we call that "coal") and turning it into CO2 would be a huge win! Until we can stop that from happening - we have no chance of getting carbon put back into the ground any faster than it's being dug up and burned. If you have energy to spare then by far the best use of it is to provide electricity to the grid and thereby shut down some coal-fired power stations (we're still building MORE of those horrible places!!). Doing that is much *MUCH* easier than sequestering the carbon after it's been turned in to CO2! If sequestration is to provide any net benefit at all, it has to be sequestration of the carbon dioxide itself...and we have no good ways to do that. In a future world where CO2 production has been essentially shut off using nuclear, fusion, wind, solar, wave, etc energy - then trying to use some of the spare energy we happen to have just lying around to pull CO2 out of the air might make sense. However, growing large forests over the sahara desert, sustainably harvesting the timber, converting it to charcoal and burying it in disused coal mines is probably the most efficient way to sequester CO2. SteveBaker (talk) 15:14, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I don't agree that "we have no chance of getting carbon put back into the ground any faster than it's being dug up and burned". We are currently injecting around ten billion tons of carbon into the atmosphere per year. I estimate that we could actively remove that much carbon at a cost on the order of $1 trillion per year. Obviously that's a lot of money, but it is only around 1% of the world GDP. We could do it if we were motivated enough. Looie496 (talk) 14:56, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
[citation needed] on the $1 trillion number! 105.236.218.126 (talk) 23:01, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
My near term non biological solution: CO2 scrubber -> Sabatier reaction (you could stop here if you like methane) -> Steam reforming -> Fischer–Tropsch process Its probably inefficient but some reaction is exothermic, you could funnel them to the endothermic ones and use a lot of energy and heat to drive it — Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.0.229.26 (talk) 11:24, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Optimal watering schedule

I recently installed drip irrigation in my vegetable garden and realized that my home's existing lawn irrigation controller wasn't advanced enough to handle seperate schedudules for the lawn and garden. I went overboard replaced it with an industrial controller from the scrap bin where I work. :-) I have it wired up to control the zones, and have the flexibility to schedule it based on pretty much anything. Right now I have it set up so that it can schedule zones based on the sunrise time. I have plenty of inputs to talk to pretty much any sort of sensor you can imagine, but I don't want to spend much. I will attach a thermocouple for measuring the air temperature, and I'll probably at least pick up a cheap rain sensor - they're designed to automatically cut power to sprinkler solenoids for a period after rain, but I can set one up so that the controller knows it rained and can act on that information in any way I want it to.

I live about 1000 ft from Lake Michigan near Holland, MI and have about 6 inches of top soil on top of sand. My front lawn is full sun, and the back is shaded for about half the day. The lawns use impact sprinklers, except for sprayers in some small sections. The garden is raised beds with 6-12" of a 50/50 topsoil/compost mix. The sun varies depending on the bed, but (for now) all the beds are on the same drip irrigation zone.

I'm looking for guidelines on the optimal way to schedule my sprinkler systems to reduce water use. I'll appreciate advice from personal experience, but I would really prefer reliable sources that have information applicable to my region and soil. I'd let the lawn go brown in the summer, but my retired neighbors are meticulous about keeping their lawns perfect, and my kids would probably prefer to play in soft grass anyways. If I do it right, I'm hoping that I can add a maple tree in the front lawn without it growing floating roots. I also plan on adding fruit trees and blueberries to my garden next year, but I can set those up on another irrigation zone if I need to. 209.131.76.183 (talk) 14:02, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Here's some nice info from the MSU extension service (in the US, these are great resources!) [1], [2]. They have links to calculators, and discuss best practices. Of note, frequent (e.g. daily) light watering is bad for turfgrass. Also, don't sprinkle on your trees, use a soaker hose or Drip_irrigation to get water down deep. SemanticMantis (talk) 14:18, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You may also be interested in xeriscaping, even though you're not exactly in a dessert. If your soil is that sandy and dry, you might be able to save water with something slightly odd for your area, like bermuda grass. FYI, the extension service will probably also answer specific emailed questions. They are actual experts, try them out :) SemanticMantis (talk) 01:06, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Anything that involves swapping out my whole lawn is going to be too expensive for now, but I'll keep it in mind. If it were up to me, the whole neighboorhood would be a native habitat - either sand and uncut dune grass with the occasional Pitcher's thistle, or woodlands with sensibly-maintained underbrush. I'll contact the extension service about lawn ideas - they may be able to suggest some native species that will do well as an alternative turf. I'll also have to research township rules in that case. Thanks! 209.131.76.183 (talk) 12:18, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Here in Austin, TX, we're in the middle of a multi-year drought. Unfortunately, local home-owner's associations (HOA's) are in pretty much every neigbourhood and require residents to have grass and typically dictate how tall the grass is allowed to be and bitch at you if it turns brown (which native texan grasses are quite happy to do - and recover from the next time it rains). Just a few days ago, the city passed a law requiring HOA's to allow xeriscaping - and I'm hopeful that we'll be able to shift to the kind of look you see for the desert homes out in Arizona - earth tones, xeriscape - zero water environments, that kind of thing. Throwing water that's carefully purified to be good enough for human consumption onto grass to make it grow so you have to get out in 100 degree temperatures to cut the stuff sure gets old fast! 15:53, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
My water comes from a well, and I assume that the aquifer gets recharged pretty well from Lake Michigan, but it still seems like a waste. I don't use fertilizer or pesticides on my lawn, but my neighbors definitely do, and I hate the thought of any of that getting into the runoff. We don't have an HOA anymore, but I still have to make sure to follow township rules. I put off sprinkling as long as possible this year, and maybe 10-20% of the grass went dormant and the green stuff is growing really slowly. We've had a 90-100 degree heat wave for at least a week now, but I haven't had to mow in it. 209.131.76.183 (talk) 16:46, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This is the OP on a different IP. I heard back from the extension service already, so I figured I would follow up with their advice. They recommend placing small containers around the lawn to get an idea of what rate the water is accumulating as the sprinklers run. Then time how long it takes until there is ponding or run-off - that's how long the sprinklers should run at a time for optimal watering. Calculate how long the sprinklers need to run to deposit an inch of water (the weekly target), and divide it by the time it takes to pool/run to figure out how many times to run the sprinklers in a week. Irrigation should run in the morning, but a short afternoon burst can also help cool down the turf. If there is rain, just take that into account as part of the 1 inch per week. He also gave a link to a drip system calculator for my garden, but all it does is determine flow rate, which I already know (assuming the numbers on the packaging are correct). I'm not as worried about that one anyways - the packaging had suggested schedules, and it is easy to check the soil in the raised beds to see how well it is working. He gave these links for native landscaping in Michigan: [3] [4].108.194.140.240 (talk) 11:38, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Is the gravitational lensing caused by Earth measurable?

In theory, couldn't one measure terrestrial lensing of stars or sunlight from a tall tower or airship? I'm thinking something like 50+ miles of viewing radius should provide sufficient enough angle with the horizon to measure such effects, comparing the deflection angles of various wavelengths or some such. Have any experiments of this sort ever been attempted? 70.112.97.77 (talk) 14:39, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Someone here who knows the math better can probably figure out just how much of an effect to expect, but I know it is going to be very very small. I expect that distortion from the atmosphere will be much greater than what you're proposing measuring. 209.131.76.183 (talk) 14:48, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
When it comes to gravitational lensing, I've seen a lot more mathematical theory than actual observational data. This leads me to the dismal opinion that many publications about gravitational lensing are actually very well-camouflaged professional pseudoscience; they typically consist of very pure and even correct mathematics, but this isn't science when there's almost no physical data to validate specific claims. A few landmark observations of the lensing effect do exist, which provides a little bit of confidence that the general concept is valid; but the famous examples are all very faint deep sky objects, and most of the effects are small perturbations due to massive black holes.
I do not believe any well-known experiment has ever sought to measure gravitational lensing deflection of light due to Earth's gravity. In fact, even deflection effects of the much larger Sun's gravitation are contentious due to the tiny magnitude of the effect and the impact of other experimental error. You will unfortunately find that our article, gravitational lensing formalism, references mostly self-published arXiv pre-prints, rather than peer-reviewed science. Our much better main article, gravitational lensing, lists several famous historical examples, like the Einstein Cross, where the effect and its theory are much better supported by the data. Nimur (talk) 15:21, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The amount of deflection due to gravitational lensing is
.
If you plug the Earth's mass and radius into that equation, you get θ=3x10-9 radians, which is about half a milliarcsecond. It's not uncommon for astronomers to deal with angles that small. Red Act (talk) 15:41, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
For the sake of clarity, I edited my post. Gravitational lensing and deflection of light by gravity are both due to the exact same physics; but astronomers really only use the term "lensing" when the deflection is large enough that the gravity causes light to behave similarly to light passing through a refractive lens. This is probably another reason why you won't find much when you search for "gravitational lensing" by small planet-sized masses - even if the effect exists and is measurable, it isn't lens-like. Nimur (talk) 15:50, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It looks like my statement above that dealing with an angle of a half a milliarcsecond wouldn't be uncommon for an astronomer was a bit optimistic. I was thrown by knowing that the Gaia space observatory that will be launched this coming October is hoped to measure star positions down to 20 microarcseconds or less. However, ground-based telescopes can only resolve things down to a few hundred milliarcseconds due to atmospheric effects, and even space telescopes like the Hubble which avoid those atmospheric effects are diffraction limited to dealing with angles of about 100 milliarcseconds. Some advanced observatories have been starting to use adaptive optics to get resolutions down to about 50 milliarcseconds, but Gaia's dealing with angles smaller than a milliarcsecond will be quite a breakthrough. In comparison, the gravitational deflection of light by the sun as was measured by Eddington is about 1.75 arcseconds, which is much easier to measure than a half a milliarcsecond. Red Act (talk) 21:30, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting, thanks all! 70.112.97.77 (talk) 19:59, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]


Earth sized planets are routinely detected via gravitational microlensing. Count Iblis (talk) 23:05, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, and such a clever technique too - amazing that it even works! 70.112.97.77 (talk) 06:41, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Is it an example of precipitate reaction?

Here is a simple reaction-
Fe + CuSO4 ----> FeSO4 + Cu
Is this an example of precipitate reaction? If yes, then which one is precipitate? Publisher54321 (talk) 15:45, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Cu (s) for most sulfates dissolve in solution, except barium or lead sulfates. 140.254.227.57 (talk) 15:48, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No, it is not strictly a precipitation reaction. It can be classified a number of ways, either as a single replacement reaction or as a redox reaction. Precipitation reactions are usually a subcategory of reactions known as double replacement reactions. Classic precipitation reactions involve the mixing of two salt solutions to produce an insoluble salt. Typically, these are reactions like sodium chloride solution mixing with silver nitrate solution (producing silver chloride as a precipitate) or potassium sulfate solution mixing with barium nitrate solution (producing barium sulfate). --Jayron32 16:47, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Correlation between continuous visible spectrum and the models used in display/detection of red, green, and blue channels

When dealing with color from the point of view of digital monitors, cameras, and so forth we talk about the differing intensity levels of red, green, and blue to describe the perception of the multitude of colors. But in examination of the electromagnetic spectrum of visible light we instead consider a well-defined bandwidth of frequencies with NO regard for intensity. What is the mathematical relationship of these two models? And how does a "pure" signal (peak frequency) of say yellow light "stimulate" intensity levels of red, green, and blue within the eye and optical detectors in the first place? 70.112.97.77 (talk) 15:58, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have no idea what the second sentence of your question means; this "we" of whom you speak is considering wrongly. The colour vision article shows the response curves for the three types of colour sensing cone cell found in the human eye, which are non-uniform and which overlap. The arrangement is broadly similar in the CCD detectors found in digital cameras, albeit with different curves. -- Finlay McWalterTalk 16:08, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)The electromagnetic spectrum of visible light pertains to the wavelength at which the light emits. Color itself is the product of our perception, created by our visual pigments in the retina, and is combined from wavelength by the electromagnetic spectrum of visible light, intensity (how bright/dim the color is) and saturation (how much whiteness a color has). According to Hering's theory of color vision, there are three mechanisms, each of which responds in opposite ways to different intensities or wavelengths of light. The Black (-) and White (+) mechanism responds positively to white light and negatively to the absence of light. Red (+) Green (-) responds positively to red light and negatively to green, and Blue (-) Yellow (+) responds negatively to blue but positively to yellow. So, an object that reflects light at the peak wavelength of yellow light may react with the color receptors to fatigue, so that when the color is gone, the opposing color - less fatigued color - appears as an afterimage. The intensity, wavelength, and saturation are in the environment, not created in the eye. We just perceive them a certain way, giving them special characteristics. Sneazy (talk) 16:32, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
To correct our OP a little here - when you get a description of color using the visible spectrum, you still need intensity data. Generally, what you have is a plot of frequency versus intensity. Converting that into an RGB representation entails looking at the frequency response of the Red, Green and Blue sensors and using that to produce a weighted sum of the spectral data under each of the three curves. The reverse operation is impossible - there is insufficient information in the R/G/B intensities to reconstruct the original frequencies unambiguously. SteveBaker (talk) 19:22, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the responses. I still don't get it though: Yellow light has a frequency of 525–505 THz. Red, green, and blue range from 480–400 THz, 575–525 THz, and 670–610 THz respectively. How exactly does varying the intensities of RGB on a display produce what appears to the human eye as a frequency that lies outside the range of these three primary colors (eg: yellow at 525–505 THz)? 70.112.97.77 (talk) 19:53, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that would depend on the source of the light. Color may be combined together by shining two or more colored lights or mixing two or more colored paints. The former method, shining two or more colored lights, will produce an additive color mixture - all lights are bounced from the wall and into your eye. The latter method, mixing paints, will produce a subtractive color mixture. If a paint reflects long and medium wavelengths and a paint reflects medium and short wavelengths, and you mix them together, they will superimpose on each other, absorbing both long and short wavelength visible light, and therefore you may be left with green - a medium wavelength light. Display screens are just displays of light, not paint. The colors are "mixed" together to create the vast array of colors we see. I put "mixed" in quotes, because display screens have pixels. It is our brains that create the illusion that we are seeing "mixed lights". Think pointillism. Sneazy (talk) 20:47, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
(This is a pet subject of mine!)
The curious thing about "yellow" is that there are two completely different waveforms that both look "yellow" to our eyes and to our cameras - but which are in fact totally different colors when examined spectroscopically. Consider light from a sodium light - which is pretty much entirely composed of light whose frequency is intermediate between red and green. There is no red or green frequencies coming from that lamp at all. Then consider the IDENTICAL-LOOKING light from a TV screen that's showing a picture of a sodium light - which is a mixture of pure red and pure green light with no frequencies in the "yellow" range whatever (because a TV has no means to generate light of the frequencies that the sodium lamp produces)!
Our eyes and our TV cameras simply cannot distinguish between these very different waveforms. They look exactly the same shade of yellow - yet they are in no way similar if examined spectrographically.
I like to think about someone who is colorblind and unable to see green light directly. For those people, the frequency of light midway between red and blue looks identical to a mixture of red and blue...put another way, green and magenta look the same to those people. Well, that says to me that "sodium-lamp-yellow" and "TV-picture-of-sodium-lamp-yellow" are as different as green and magenta...but our eyes can't tell!
If you are unconvinced, try to find a very old orange-colored sodium street lamp and view it's light on a dark night through a prism - or (since you probably don't have one) reflected in a CD-ROM disk. The CD-ROM breaks light up into it's component frequencies like a prism or spectrograph - and all you see is a single patch of yellow light. Now go to your computer screen and set the whole screen to a yellowish orange and in a darkened room, view it the exact same way. When you do that, there is no yellow light reflected on the CD-ROM - only separate patches of red and green.
It's interesting to note that some animals have more than three color receptors - goldfish and some freshwater shrimp actually have a proper yellow receptor in their eyes. They must see sodium lamps and pictures of sodium lamps as wildly different colors...as different as green and magenta in fact!
SteveBaker (talk) 01:59, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I somehow overlooked your response. It makes a lot more sense now. Thanks! 70.112.97.77 (talk) 05:21, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Steve, every time a question about color vision comes up you post in it, and every time you're wrong and someone has to correct you. Please stop.
The frequency spectrum of RGB subpixels varies widely across displays, but generally there is significant output at the 589nm wavelength of a sodium-vapor lamp, and on plenty of displays (like these) will produce as much yellow as red or green light when displaying an approximation of a sodium lamp's output. Also, the human eye can tell the difference, since the RGB display's approximation of the color is visibly desaturated (mixed with white). -- BenRG (talk) 19:24, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I just thought of something. Consider, for simplicity's sake, three pure sinusoids of specific frequency. Varying the magnitude component any of these might produce a resulting waveform that is a very close approximation some other, non-related frequency (or frequencies). Could this be what is happening when one views a pixel for instance? Up close, distinct bands of red, green, and blue of varying intensity; from afar, an interference pattern that "fits closely" to the shape of say a yellow waveform? 70.112.97.77 (talk) 21:33, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Amplitude and frequency are two separate things. Amplitude describes "how big" the wave is, and frequency describes "how frequent" the waves come in a period of time. If you change the amplitude, then you just change the size of the wave from hill to trough, not how frequent the waves come in a period of time. That said, the RGB on a display screen is made up of RGB pixels. The reason why we see a wide range of colors on the display screen is that these pixels are extremely tiny, and like pointillism, our brains perceive them as blending together to create various colors of the spectrum. The perception of various colors is real, even though all the colors of the spectrum are not in the pixels. Sneazy (talk) 22:48, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well, what I meant was that in varying the amplitude (or even phase) of a single sine wave which is being combined with several other (unchanging) sinusoids, one finds that certain values can actually "deform" the result so dramatically that if one were to say pass it through some sort of smoothing function or whatnot (the "fuzzy logic" of the human brain, for example) one might obtain a waveform that "somehow appears" to contain frequencies not present in the original signal. Seems plausible to me, but then again, maybe I'm way off here... 70.112.97.77 (talk) 04:30, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No, it doesn't work like that. The three cone types in the eye are all sensitive to a wide, overlapping range of frequencies, and the three phosphor types of an RGB display produce a wide range of frequencies. Since all visible wavelengths are present in the image and all visible wavelengths are detected by your eye, there's no problem of seeing frequencies that aren't there. The three cone types are called L, M, and S, and it's a mistake to think of them as "R, G, and B", since that's not what they detect. The three phosphors on a display are red, green and blue in the psychological sense: they are defined by how they stimulate the cones in the eye of someone with normal color vision, not by their physical spectrum (which varies hugely from one display type to another).
When you look up close at a grid of R and G subpixels, cones in different patches of your retina are being stimulated in different ratios: L more than M in the R regions and M more than L in the G regions (but significant amounts of L and M stimulation in both). When you're farther away, all the cones are getting light from the R and G subpixels, so they are getting the average of the two, which is closer to equal in L and M. These relative ratios translate into psychological red, green, and yellow respectively via the opponent process. -- BenRG (talk) 19:24, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
A positive flame test for sodium has a bright yellow color.

One doesn't need to be a goldfish to see the difference between an actual sodium flame and this picture. The article Gamut explains that no tricolor image can duplicate any of the spectral colours. It's depressing when someone who knows better still exploits the protected forum of the reference desks to promote a spelling deviation that they would find unacceptable in Wikipedia articles. Human vision has evolved its (not "it is") responses to work with the incoherent solar light that is broadband radiation. The retinal cones effectively measure power not phase, and colour sensations do not arise from any particular waveshape. DreadRed (talk) 23:11, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Interestingly, we have two completely disjunct articles on the subject; Opponent process and Color_constancy#Physiological_basis Gzuckier (talk) 08:05, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

If Feverfew is poisonous to animal pets

Area Essex England. Is the Feverfew plant poisonous to animal pets? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.47.214.143 (talk) 18:47, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It is not. The Eurasian variety described here is harmless to animals except in large doses; I'm guessing withdrawal symptoms would be similar. The North American variety (parthenium) is toxic to various animals, but you almost certainly have the Eurasian type in Britain. Robert (talk) 20:34, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
metadiscussion; see talk
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Careful, I think this may fall under the category of medical advice with some assumptions thrown in for good measure. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.111.254.165 (talk) 03:12, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, this information would go to a licensed professional in most jurisdictions. μηδείς (talk) 03:36, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Rules Q: Is "Licensed" advice a valid WP:rule? I only see that neither "medical" nor "legal" advice is to be given. A question if a certain plant is poisonous to pets is neither (veterinary if any).
Can an admin please review this one? 217.255.150.14 (talk) 07:58, 19 July 2013 (UTC) (Not the topic starter.)[reply]
We are not supposed to give professional advice, such as medical or legal advice. Click on disclaimer at the bottom of this page: "Not professional advice--If you need specific advice (for example, medical, legal, financial or risk management) please seek a professional who is licensed or knowledgeable in that area." We certainly shouldn't be telling an OP that a plant we cannot see and are not qualified to identify will not poison his pets. μηδείς (talk) 17:08, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This "ethics" nonsense is a disease. Wouldn't we answer a question about whether benzene is toxic? To humans, that is? Then give sourced data here and move on. If you insist, you can explain you're not giving this information with the intention that somebody is going to feed his cat this herb, not that there's any indication that was the plan. Wnt (talk) 18:58, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I should note that searching PubMed wasn't very productive for me this time - it yielded up a review [5] of moderate quality which says that its chronic toxicity hasn't been tested, and that the immediate adverse reactions can include mouth ulceration and dermatitis in humans. I didn't find anything about "feverfew" and "dog" or "cat". There is mouse work available, some of which indicates beneficial effect, but extrapolating from those to a more common pet would be as dicey as extrapolating to or from humans. Checking Google Scholar yielded an alleged search hit [6] - it doesn't look very scientific and I have no idea how to get to the part that actually says "feverfew" without reading as much of it as Google cares to serve and see if it's in there somewhere. Ditto [7], probably others. Wnt (talk) 19:42, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
So, you know that the OP hasn't got American feverfew, and his pets are not rabbits or ponies, Wnt? What is this burning hit-the-crackpipe itch to give half baked and potentially dangerous advice to all comers? We simply cannot answer the OP's question. μηδείς (talk) 01:14, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It's IP, not OP.
The policy (if the disclaimer counts as one) is at best ill-worded. "If you need specific advice..." is way too broad - it would cover many of legitimate questions - especially the really well-thought and well-stated ones.
Surely we can tell IP 80 if feverfew is poisonous or not. The replies as I see them are good, valid answers: American is different from Eurasian, and different pets react differently. For example, dogs can (usually) be treated with human medication , while cats cannot. Their chemistry is so different that most medicine does more harm than good. 217.255.175.134 (talk) 05:55, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

longest-running experiment to reach an unknown conclusion?

So, pretty simple. An experiment can be done where by the time the results are in, nobody knows for sure what these results will be: hence the experiment.

What is the longest such experiment (days/months/years/decades/whatever) that was not simply a demonstration but a genuine experiment? (i.e. specific example). Or, if not the longest, then some candidates for that title . Thanks! 178.48.114.143 (talk) 19:28, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Pitch drop experiment is well-known. That article also links to Long-term experiment. 209.131.76.183 (talk) 19:57, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
There has been a very long running test of evolution with bacteria: E. coli long-term evolution experiment - it's been running for 25 years now - but, again, I think the outcome was pretty much expected at the outset =. One thing though - an experiment of such scale that doesn't produce any surprises is still an important experiment...it might have shown up something surprising. Nobody knew.
My vote for longest running experiment with unknown results is the Voyager 1 and Voyager 2 missions (Voyager 2 has been up there longer). It's essentially a range of science experiments - a part of which was to ask what we would measure with it's instruments as it left the solar system. I believe the magnetometer experiment was the first to be activated of the half dozen instruments that are still functioning. Certainly the results it's been producing have been totally unexpected. It launched in 1977 - so 26 years or so - which handily beats the E. coli thing. SteveBaker (talk) 01:44, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The Domesticated_silver_fox experiment has no known conclusion, and was started in 1959. SemanticMantis (talk) 02:29, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oh! Well played! Yes, I forgot about that one...it's an absolute classic - we have a new winner! SteveBaker (talk) 03:27, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
How is that the winner when the pitch-drop experiment outdoes it by 32 years? Also, I am fairly certain there was a break in the continuity of the Silver Fox experiment around the fall of the wall. μηδείς (talk) 03:32, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Because the OP specifies an experiment with an "unknown conclusion". There is nothing whatever unknown, surprising or unexpected about a pitch-drop experiment. Even if there were, the results were well-known after the first or second drop - which happen about every 10 or 11 years - and would give us some idea of a number for the viscosity of pitch. At this point (after 8 drops) it's a cool demonstration - but could hardly be described as an "experiment". SteveBaker (talk) 14:34, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
But a short-lived victory because... SteveBaker (talk) 03:34, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I found the Park Grass Experiment has been running since 1856 investigating crop yields and such. Any advance on that? SteveBaker (talk) 03:34, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Probably. The Morrow_Plots were established soon after, and they are still often used for current research (though there are only a few hundred m^2 left of the original experiement). The Park grass and other stuff at the Rothamsted_Experimental_Station is probably the oldest broadly defined, relatively continuously running extant "experiment". The Oxford Electric Bell is probably more of a "demonstration" in the OP's terms, and it did miss a few days here and there. SemanticMantis (talk) 04:24, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah - I discounted the bell - it's a demonstration - and nothing unexpected is ever likely to come from it. SteveBaker (talk) 14:34, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Incidentally, there's recently been some hot news in a Dublin version of the pitch drop experiment. HenryFlower 03:43, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
There are some fun writeups on all of these (and some others that do not beat the Park Grass record - which this source credits to 1843) here: National Geographic, Atlas Obscura. The one for Vesuvius monitoring goes back to 1841, though I'm not sure that's an experiment, even though the outcome is indeed unpredictable so far. 174.88.9.124 (talk) 17:31, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Professor William Beal started an experiment 134 years ago in 1879 which is still going on and providing data at Michigan State University. He buried seeds in dry sand in glass jars 20 inches below grade to study the percent germination of the seeds over time. Each of 20 glass jars contained 50 seeds from various plants, and he arranged for his successors to continue the experiment after his demise by digging them up and planting them every so many years. An article from 2000 said "The Beal experiment represents the oldest continuing experiment at the nation's oldest college of agriculture." In 2000 only "Verbascum blattaria, a weed commonly called moth mullein." sprouted, according the the linked publication, but elsewhere it said 2 seeds sprouted. Perhaps they were they same species. The next jar will presumably be opened in 2020. At the present pace of opening jars, the experiment will continue until 2100, for a duration of 221 years. See [8], [9]. According to [10], the Beal experiment is the oldest ongoing one. According the the last publication, Auburn University has been running a crop rotation experiment since 1896. As was mentioned above, the University of Illinois has been running their own agriculture experiment for a long time, the Morrow Plots. which grow corn in one plot of ground every year without crop rotation or fertilization, producing poor quality stunted corn, compared to higher yields in plots with crop rotation and fertilization. It has been an ongoing experiment since 1876. Maybe U of I is considered to have begun new experiments when the conditions changed for the high yield plots. Edison (talk) 18:24, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Cool, I was not aware of the Beal germination experiments. UI Morrow plots could be ruled out on many technicalities, but I think the main reason is because only 3 of the 10 original plots are left (more info and pictures here [agronomyday.cropsci.illinois.edu/2001/morrow-plots/]). So, although the current plots have been studied since 1876, a purist (or a MSU rival ;) could say the original experiment ended when the first plot was removed. But now I'm wondering why NPR ruled out the Park Grass... SemanticMantis (talk) 19:00, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
'longest-running experiment to reach an unknown conclusion?'
Are we talking about those experiments undertaken by the modern scientific method or in the wider sense of experiments that lead to discovery and new understandings?
Archaeologists might disagree on when mankind first learnt how to control fire yet NASA and many other organisations are still furthering this form of rapid oxidisation experiment to this very day – because they still don't have all the answers.Some primates have been found to be tool users but non so far have been observed preparing a really nice medium rare stake with French fries and sauteed mushrooms.--Aspro (talk) 22:41, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Here we got a historical sample of primates preparing a nice medium rare stake with a French fry:
Well done...
--Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 22:27, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Well, we have everything from Human impact on the environment to Intelligent primates who use language if you want to get out of the professional scientist world. Gzuckier (talk) 08:10, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Laser Magnet

Magnetic fields normally affect their entire surroundings, but it there a way (in today's technology or in theory) to fire a magnetic field at a specific direction, similarly to how lasers emit light? Something that would enable, for instance, to pull a spoon but not a fork that lies next to it. Thanks, 84.109.248.221 (talk) 20:06, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

See this URL: http://www.mushield.com/faq.shtml#q1 . To me, it looks like you couldn't direct the whole force of a magnet in one direction, but if you surrounded the whole thing except for a small gap with shielding material, it would warp the field so it only stuck out the gap. However, apparently magnets can't be shielded from one another. That's as far as I understand what this says. Robert (talk) 20:39, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Wasn't this question asked and answered on July 5? Nimur (talk) 00:08, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Good answer there at your link, but now I'm thinking of asking a new question about collimated vs. coherent light :) SemanticMantis (talk) 01:11, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The short answer is no.
I'm taking your question to be a question purely about magnetostatics, since your question only mentions a magnetic field, not an electric field, and if you wanted to consider electromagnetic fields in general, then a laser beam would be the obvious example of an electromagnetic field that's in the form of a beam like a laser beam.
In magnetostatics, no matter what configuration of magnets and objects of various permeability and susceptibility there are in a system, at large distances the magnetic vector potential due to the system can be written as a multipole expansion which consists of a series of terms which drop off with distance as 1/rn. The smallest n that can have a nonzero term in the multipole expansion is n=2, i.e., the term for the magnetic dipole moment. A magnetic monopole, which would drop off as 1/r, is sometimes theorized to exist, but is not known to exist, much less a term that drops off as 1/r0, i.e. a term for a contribution to the field which remains constant independent of distance, like how the intensity of an ideal laser beam is independent of distance from the source. And the magnetic field can't even drop off as 1/rn for some n>=2 but still at least be in the form of a cylinder pointing away from the source (a beam), because that would violate the conservation of magnetic flux (the divergence of B is zero). So there's no such thing as a static magnetic field in the shape of a cylindrical beam. Static magnetic fields always spread out with distance. Red Act (talk) 01:35, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
IMO, lasers are by definition electromagnetic, not magnetic, emitters. However, some amount of "magnetic lensing" is both possible and in use (iron cores, read/write heads of hard disk drives, etc). The July 5 entry has more links on this. 217.255.152.44 (talk) 08:07, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
A magnetic field that's in the middle of an iron core or is a couple microns away from a hard drive head is a lot different from a magnetic beam extending a sizeable distance from the source through air, which is what I read the OP as asking about. The fork and spoon in the OP's example aren't in the middle of an iron core, and simply putting a magnet right next to the spoon isn't what the OP is asking about, either. Red Act (talk) 15:18, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I am sorry, why does the question make me think of sharks and pinkies? μηδείς (talk) 01:09, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Left claw north - right claw south! Tevildo (talk) 23:13, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]


July 19

Distilled vulcanoids?

Vulcanoids are hypothetical undiscovered asteroids near the Sun between 100 m and 6 km in size. They are believed to lie in a zone with an inner radius imposed by the Poynting-Robertson effect so that they don't get any hotter than 1000K or so. If they get nearer, they slowly spiral into the Sun.

Question: how slowly?

As they get very close to the Sun, they should exceed the 3100 K boiling point of iron, at which point I would expect it to vaporize away, leaving concentrated siderophiles such as rhenium, iridium and tungsten that are key commodities of asteroid mining.

Question: can these asteroids actually become "distilled" to contain only these exotic elements in nearly pure form? Or would alloying produce azeotropes, etc. that would be resistant to distillation?

Now if you have a molten ball of highly valuable metal that is about to fall into the sun, no sense wasting it. I would assume that a missile, encased in high-temperature ceramic and decelerated from Earth orbit, could strike such a blob with extreme force, and if very carefully simulated and very carefully aimed, this could spray gobs of the exotic metal into an orbit so distant it might solidify and be retrievable by specially built mining craft.

Question: would that work?

Last but not least: even as expensive as elements like these are, would they really be worth enough to pay off the energy expended to slow the missile down (even if it uses a fancy slingshot maneuver) and to bring them back? Wnt (talk) 20:11, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

If you evaporate your rock, you will likely end up with something like Calcium–aluminium-rich inclusions which are believed to be the first to condense. The vapour pressure depends on the other elements present due to the formation of compounds. Where you have mixtures the vapour will include some of all the parts making it up, There may not be much concentration of very rare substances. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:03, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

These objects are probably among the very few things in the known universe that literally "spiral out of control". -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 23:49, 23 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

video games

is there a difference in how people with adhd/autism gets influenced by video games, especially violent compared to people without autism/adhd? someone must have done a study about it. --80.161.143.239 (talk) 20:12, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It's going to be hard to generalize because autism is a "spectum" condition that ranges from mild assperger syndrome all the way to people who are completely shut off from the world. ADHA is frequently a "comorbid condition" of autism...but not all adhd sufferers are autistic or vice-versa. I doubt that a clear study will have been done. SteveBaker (talk) 00:54, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I found one scholarly study on the relationship between video games and autism spectrum disorder. One study found that, "problematic video game use was significantly correlated with inattention and oppositional behavior. Boys who played Role-Playing games had higher levels of both problematic game use and oppositional behavior. Finally, problematic game use and Role- Playing game genre were significant predictors of oppositional behavior, even when controlling for age and amount of time spent playing video games."
Mazurek, M. O., & Engelhardt, C. R. (2013). Video game use and problem behaviors in boys with autism spectrum disorders. Research in Autism Spectrum Disorders, 7(2), 316-324.
I also found four studies on the relationship between video games and ADHD. One study found that, "Puzzle games appear to have a therapeutic effect on ADHD by increasing children's attention span, providing stress relief, and improving memory strength and focus."
Video games therapeutic for children with ADHD. (2008). Journal of Psychosocial Nursing & Mental Health Services, 46(10), 10.
Another study found that, "Adolescents who play more than one hour of console or Internet video games may have more or more intense symptoms of ADHD or inattention than those who do not."
Chan, P. A., & Rabinowitz, T. (2006). A cross-sectional analysis of video games and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder symptoms in adolescents. Annals of General Psychiatry, 5
A third study found that, "ADHD children exhibited more problems associated with videogame playing. It seems that a subgroup of ADHD children could be vulnerable to developing dependence upon video games."
Bioulac, S., Arfi, L., & Bouvard, M. P. (2008). Attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder and video games: A comparative study of hyperactive and control children. European Psychiatry, 23(2), 134-141.
The last study I looked at examined the relationships between time management skills, ADHD, and video game use. The results are somewhat of a morass in my opinion, but it might be worth a further look.
Tolchinsky, A., & Jefferson, S. D. (2011). Problematic video game play in a college sample and its relationship to time management skills and attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder symptomology. Cyberpsychology, Behavior, and Social Networking, 14(9), 489-496. Lord Arador (talk) 06:25, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This is completely unreferenced and based on my own experience, so maybe out of place. I have Aspergers and Tourette's (both diagnosed). The only impact I notice games having on me is that 1.) I get fixated on it and kind of zone out, kind of like staring at a lava lamp for too long; 2.) My random tics tend to go away after I play for a bit. Ultimately, they tend to be stress relieving, but I lose track of time when I'm playing. I've never had a game have a marked psychological impact on me to the extent of acting different as a result; as in: I don't feel especially violent, or aggressive, as a result of playing violent games, usually just the opposite. Personally, I don't feel that games impact me any differently than the rest of the populace (based on watching other people play) except that playing for 15 hours straight without a break and not realizing may be a result of getting fixated (but I do this with anything I find enjoyable; I watch tv for 15 hours straight, read books this long, whatever else I'm involved in). (As stated, this is purely my experience, if it is unhelpful or pointless, hat it or delete it if you want, I just figured it may be relevant.)Phoenixia1177 (talk) 07:24, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Interesting. And do you avoid playing video games which involve other people, preferring to play single-player games ? (Of course, I take it your case isn't very severe, if you choose to communicate with others here.) StuRat (talk) 19:40, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Aphasia?

Is there a name for the phenomenon where, in a heated argument or under stress, one cannot speak because of overwhelming emotion? --TammyMoet (talk) 20:46, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Aphonia is the medical term for inability to speak, so it could be called something like "transient iratogenic aphonia" if one wished to sound pretentious about it. (Or if one wished to decieve people into incorrectly informing one that it should be "iatrogenic"). Tevildo (talk) 21:34, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Speechlessness. DreadRed (talk) 23:18, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
If someone says "I'm speechless", is that technically a self-contradiction? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots23:37, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Well, if they are claiming to be unable to speak...then yes. But if they merely happen to have lost their notes for an up-coming commencement address then maybe not! SteveBaker (talk) 00:50, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The term "rendered apoplectic" has been used for this, although looking up the work apoplexy it has a highly technical and far more serious meaning. μηδείς (talk) 01:06, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not so sure "apoplectic" is used all that often anymore. The preferred term seems to be "going ballistic". Which makes about as much sense. In the old radio show Fibber McGee and Molly, McGee (Jim Jordan) had a knack for flustering Mayor LaTrivia (Gale Gordon) to the point where the mayor couldn't construct a complete sentence. That schtick would be a pretty good example of the concept. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots10:11, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No, I only know apoplectic from old movies/TV. μηδείς (talk) 17:38, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Obligate Hugh Laurie: [11] -- 71.35.127.252 (talk) 17:19, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Quite a good clip! μηδείς (talk) 21:29, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Tevildo, may I please borrow "transient iratogenic aphonia"? It sounds so much better than "I'm speechless with rage". -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 23:46, 23 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Things getting stuck inside bivalves?

Before I saw this video, I'd have suspected that the concept of a clam/oyster/etc. clamping shut on an extremity and trapping it to be an urban legend, or something from cartoons, because I didn't think that the shells actually shut that tight, all things considered.

Has there ever been a confirmed case of this happening to a human? --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 23:37, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

See this from Natural History if you believe the account. This is a question where google ("diver killed clam") would have been a good first choice. μηδείς (talk) 00:59, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Have you ever tried to open an oyster or mussel by hand with no tools? They can shut very tightly. Dunno about bigger shells and humans though. HiLo48 (talk) 04:38, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
A Tridacna giant clam can easily crush a limb if one got caught in it -- there have been a few cases of that actually happening. 24.23.196.85 (talk) 19:00, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
We have an article, Pearl of Lao Tzu which is the pearl described in the 1939 Natural History story linked by Medeis above. The author, Wilburn Dowell Cobb apparently re-invented the story in 1969, claiming that the pearl had been artificially grown in ancient China and lost at sea off the Philippines in a storm. In the original 1939 story, a native diver had drowned trying to retrieve the 6.4 kg pearl from a giant clam, which then closed on his arm. Cobb claimed that the valves can "clamp shut with the suddenness and strength of a bear trap". Our "Trdacna" article says; "The popular opinion that they pose danger to divers who get trapped or injured between the closing sharp-edged shell is not very real, as the closing reaction is quite slow". Alansplodge (talk) 14:33, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"Authenticated incidents in which a giant clam has actually trapped and drowned a diver, however, are notably lacking." From: Ellen Prager (2011), Sex, Drugs, and Sea Slime: The Oceans' Oddest Creatures and Why They Matter, The University of Chicago Press (pp. 64-65). Alansplodge (talk) 18:21, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Otherwise you'd expect predatory bivalves to be a lot more common. μηδείς (talk) 02:09, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

July 20

Bubbles in carbonated wated

Imagine an unopened can of carbonated water. At the molecular level, what does it look like? There should be a sea of H2O molecules, with some CO2 and carbonic acid evenly dispersed within it. Now, when the can is opened bubbles will form and rise to the surface. That means that the CO2 molecules, which were previously evenly dispersed within the fluid, decide the aggregate upon the reduction in pressure. Why does this happen? 74.15.137.253 (talk) 04:20, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The nucleation article covers this. -- Finlay McWalterTalk 11:42, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Analog retransmitting rain gauge

Following up on my sprinkler question, now that I have good advice for how much it should run, I'm curious if I can get it working with an electronic rain gauge. I can see tons of them on Amazon with self-tipping rain buckets and a wireless receiver that reports the rain on an LCD display, and they're in the $25 price range. I'm trying to find one that retransmits the rain as an analog voltage or current on terminals I can connect to, or if I can't find one like that, then something that creates a voltage or shorts some contacts when the rain for some set period goes over a specified limit. Wireless isn't a big deal. 108.194.140.240 (talk) 12:10, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There are bucket rain gauge tipping bucket rain gauges that you can buy, or should not be hard to construct, that contain a Reed switch or microswitch that provides a momentary closing contact each time the bucket fills. My understanding of what you want is that a sprinkler should start when pulses (bucket tips) are absent for a given rainless time. That might be achieved by using the pulses to reset a counter. The counter (say three CMOS 4161 counters wired to divide-by-4096) is clocked (say at 1.14 Hz by a 555 timer IC in astable mode) delivers a carry pulse to start the sprinkler when rain is absent for an hour. That arrangement with the commonly available components in brackets is a purely digital way to do it, and you may use different hardware. DreadRed (talk) 19:51, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The system of watering timers which keeps reappearing at Home Depot etc. under different brand names includes a pair of gadgets, one is a (wireless) transmitter that sits imbedded in the lawn, the other a receiver which ends in a cable which can plug into the fancier timers. [12] A little experimenting might let you figure out what's what. Gzuckier (talk) 08:22, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Good point - I had been focusing on the fact that they all seem to have a nice number displayed on the end, and wanted to tap into that, but the mechanical side of things will have a simple switch in it that is where the information is being derived from in the first place. My (completely overkill) sprinkler controller is a salvaged industrial PLC, so I should have no problem getting it to convert those pulses into precipitation counts. My plan is to calculate the average sprinkler rate with some flat pans scattered around the lawn, then have it combine that knowledge with the rain gauge to aim for the lawn receiving 1"/week overall. 209.131.76.183 (talk) 11:39, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Putting a cadaver in a morgue drawer

Do you put it head first or feet first? OsmanRF34 (talk) 14:23, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You ask the corpse for his preference. --Jayron32 14:39, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
LOL. See Necromancy 217.255.159.10 (talk) 14:50, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The greatest mass (weight) of a body is situated in the torso. So it makes sense to place the cadaver head first on the draw to least strain the the draw glides. Other than that, the is no tradition that I know off, other than, in a large well organised morgue, it smooths daily procedures if the cadavers are always in the same orientation when transferring the cadaver off and back on the gurney. The morgue staff then can then move them feet first (which I think is a tradition in the west) without having to think about it. I don't think there is even any effort to orientate the draws in an East-West direction – as it is not their final resting place. Next time I walk into one I will try and remember to take a compass – unless I am entering feet first myself, when it will be too late for me to reply to you.--Aspro (talk) 15:27, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No reference - but I'd say it's regulated on a per-morgue basis: either all feet first or all head first. Head first would limit the load on the drawers by some amount, but feet first would mean that you don't have to open the drawer all the way to get a good look at the head.
No, wait...
It should be head first, so you can read the toe tag (if it's not an urban legend) without moving the drawer at all. 217.255.145.227 (talk) 17:36, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed - I've never seen a TV morgue where the corpse didn't emerge from the drawer feet first! Of course, WP has an article; Toe tag. Alansplodge (talk) 21:12, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, TV is more adaptable than that... in Pushing Daisies for example, or other programs where one converses with corpses, it's feet first (again, for ease of access to the business end, though in this case "heads" takes precedence over "toes". - Nunh-huh 20:21, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Do they always detonate the explosives?

In Roving Mars, Steve Squyres, principal scientific investigator for the Spirit and Opportunity Mars Rovers, writes on page 211, "It's not a topic that NASA likes to talk about, but rockets can become wild, dangerous things when something goes really wrong with one. If a rocket begins to go seriously off course, it can be necessary to 'render the vehicle nonpropulsive,' as they like to put it, before it heads for a populated area. So every rocket—even the Space Shuttle—lifts off from its launch pad laced with high explosives." He goes on to say that if the rocket strays too far from its intended path, it's the safety officer's job to detonate the rocket. But he doesn't say what happens with all of that explosive ordnance if the rocket doesn't stray off its path. These stages that fall back to the earth with all the fuel and oxidizer used up with explosives too, do they always make sure those explosives go off? I'd like to see a source. 75.75.42.89 (talk) 14:55, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

If the launch goes to plan, the first stage (and/or strap-on boosters) will fall into an area that's known to be empty (or very sparsely populated, like a desert or a patch of ocean). An empty rocket stage isn't terribly dangerous (it's just a light metal section) - the reason for the safety feature is they don't want a fuelled section falling on someone. An interesting case is the self-destruct mechanism for the Space Shuttle's solid rocket boosters - that's described in this paper. That works by triggering a linear charge which splits the booster casing vertically (like you were opening a banana) down 70% of its length. If the SRB was still active, the dynamic load on the propellant would shatter it and allow the flame front to engulf it all, so it would all be safely consumed before it reached the ground (other than for low altitudes, which is why they still need several miles of evac zone around the launch facility). Note that spent SRBs are recovered from the ocean and are reconditioned - the spent ones clearly haven't been split open like bananas, so their range safety destruct mechanisms haven't been triggered, and are robust enough to survive the full launch, splashdown, and recovery cycle without accidentally triggering. I can't find documentation of the mass of the main self-destruct charge, but given that it only has to split a thin sheet of aviation metal, it's maybe only a few kg of plastic explosive. -- Finlay McWalterTalk 15:27, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
NASA's history portal contains a free book, Moon Port, which has a whole chapter on range safety during Project Apollo. Due to administrative choices, the Air Force controlled the technology and operation of the launch vehicle autodestruct. Kennedy Space Center also maintains a current website on present range safety practices, including details of the Flight Termination systems. Every range has its own practices, based on the types of hazards and the potential risk; for example, here is a Range Safety Manual for Wallops Island.
In some cases, operators of large rockets have legal (and ethical) obligations to guarantee that under no circumstance could a hazardous quantity of energetic material ever be present near e.g. populated areas. That includes guaranteeing separation of the material within a controlled area, even in the event of unplanned accidents! For example, NASA publishes several technical standards and adheres to federal laws and regulations, as well as defense department practices, for handling hazardous materials. This is one reason why rocket launch facilities are so remote; surrounded by high fences and enforced exclusion-zones; trajectories are carefully planned, and so on. And should you ever find yourself inside an ordnance facility or rocket range, you'd be wise not to go trekking over the unmarked ground! Unknown hazards, including unexploded ordnance, is frequently a problem on such facilities. Nimur (talk) 16:33, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Filling a gas cigarette lighter.

At the start: an empty see-through gas lighter and a full can of refill Butane fuel. When you refill the lighter it fills with liquid Butane to about 1/2 capacity. If you disengage the lighter and the refill can and then do the refill process again more fluid flows into the lighter. During the previous fill the contents of both the lighter and the refill can were at equal pressure as there was no further flow of gas/liquid yet when you go for a follow-up 'top-up' refill there is obviously a difference in pressure as more LPG enters the lighter - Can anyone explain the phenomena please?Jason Twell (talk) 19:17, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

When the lighter is first filled in the factory the LPG has to over come the pressure of atmospheric air already present in the lighter's tank. This atmospheric air slowly dissolves into the butane, so that during use, it escapes though the valve along with the butane. Therefore, the next time its filled there is less 'back pressure' from the what little atmospheric air is still remaining. So more butane can then be added than before. Place said lighter in a freezer and the butane will become below its boiling point and then, even more butane can be added.--Aspro (talk) 23:56, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
In your case the lighter had been filled at the factory and emptied. I suspect that what happened was that the butane coming out of the refill canister heated as it compressed in the butane lighter chamber while the gas in the refill canister cooled as it decompressed. The result was that temporarily the butane lighter chamber was warm and the refill canister was cool at matching pressures. While you waited, the refill canister warmed up (increasing the pressure) and the butane lighter cooled down (decreasing pressure). As a result there was an available pressure differential for an additional "top up".Doppler13 (talk) 03:37, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

July 21

Lightning and outdoor sport

1. Although it is widely recommended not to seek for shelter during a storm below a tree, wouldn't it be advisable to stay more or less near a tree (or something high)? That seems wiser than an open field. The lightning follows the shortest path, and that won't be me, but the tree. Additionally, does hiding in a woods somehow protect you against lightning for the same reason? 2. Couldn't really thick soles serve as protection, in the same way that a car's tires protects us? 3. What is the highest point that still gets hit by lightning? Is it possible for lightning to strike above the clouds? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 34and34 (talkcontribs) 00:35, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The reason people are sometimes advised not to shelter close to trees is because a lightning strike can cause the tree to explode - see Exploding tree#Lightning. -- Finlay McWalterTalk 00:40, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
On the "really thick soles" point, see Dielectric strength. The typical voltage of a lightning bolt is several hundred million volts, which can easily get through a centimetre or so of rubber. Tevildo (talk) 00:48, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
To clarify, the car's _tyres_ don't protect the occupants - the car's body forms a Faraday cage, which keeps the lightining outside the car. Tevildo (talk) 00:49, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
different types of lightning phenomena
This website describes the crouch method. Lightning can strike cloud-to-cloud and objects flying through them, and there are recently confirmed phenomena like sprites that occur above them. μηδείς (talk) 01:36, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
If you're in danger of getting hit with a sprite, crouching is unlikely to help you. Matt Deres (talk) 02:22, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Odd it's not actually mentioned in the lightning article. See Sprite (lightning). μηδείς (talk) 02:44, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
If you were touching the tree and it were energized to a high voltage, your body would provide an alternative conducting path to the tree trunk, and a fatal current might pass through you. If you were standing near the tree, and it were energized, there would be a voltage gradient along the surface of the ground, so that if one foot were closer to the tree than the other, there could be hundreds or thousands of volts difference between where the two feet were. The same hazards hold if a high voltage wire is touching some object or ground. A similar potential difference could be there if you were touching another person. If a powerline falls on a car, and you step out onto the ground while touching the car, you are likely to be killed. The same holds if it falls on a metal fence and you touch the fence.

And how did Supersaurus protect itself during thunderstorms? Count Iblis (talk) 15:52, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

By sticking close, but not too close, to an even bigger supersaurus. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots17:09, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
They did feed among large coniferous forests, so they may have used the crouch method. μηδείς (talk) 18:13, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Lightning strikes are just not that common. Probably they didn't protect themselves and a very few of them died as a result. SteveBaker (talk) 21:13, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That's 100 strikes per second year-round worldwide, and a 1/6250 chance of being stricken once in a human lifetime in America. μηδείς (talk) 21:21, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Insulating patches in otherwise-complete Faraday cages

In the section immediately above, the passenger compartment in an automobile is described as a Faraday cage (note: I don't think that article mentions insulators). Whereas a classic Faraday cage is composed of a continuous sheath of conductor (with gaps smaller than the wavelength of the electromagnetic radiation in question), an automobile has a substantial proportion surface composed of glass (windows), which I would consider insulator. So: what proportion (in terms of surface area) of a Faraday cage can be insulator? Does a light bulb (mostly insulator) serve as a Faraday cage? Apologies if this is obvious, but I don't completely trust intuition when it comes to physics. -- Scray (talk) 01:21, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A lightning bolt is not characterized by any particular wavelength so the protection of a discontinuous Faraday cage depends on it not having an aperture larger than the distance from the aperture to a person inside. The link shows a man with faith in a flimsy Farady cage.. Lightning bolts care little for insulators. DreadRed (talk) 09:52, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The definition of a Faraday cage is quite loose and depends on the application. If you're shielding against omnidirectional microwave radiation then of course any hole larger than the wavelength will admit energy. If you're shielding against lightning, you're not really interested in the high-frequency components (which exist, but don't contain much energy). For example, this study (see p3) says that the current in an average lightning strike is down to 1% at 60 kHz, so most of the energy is well below that frequency. The high-frequency stuff may interfere with your radio but won't fry you. At 60 kHz the wavelength is 5 km. At these scales, any nearby conducting path that doesn't go through you is sufficient to protect you from the electric field. --Heron (talk) 10:08, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Why are deciduous trees light green ("spring green") in the spring?

We all "know" that deciduous trees are light green ("spring green") in the spring and that the green darkens through the summer. I can't find any documentation or explanation of the effect.

My hypothesis is that we're seeing a rough reversal reverse of the fall foliage effect. The yellow colors must come in first together with some chlorophyll and then more chlorophyll is produced resulting in a darker green as the season progresses. Apparently the chlorophyll is withdrawn first in the fall so we see pure yellow / orange / red leaves but it returns together with the yellow pigments in the spring so that we don't simply see fall foliage in reverse in the spring. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doppler13 (talkcontribs) 03:15, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Or more poetically "Nature’s first green is gold,"[13] Rmhermen (talk) 12:49, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yes increased chlorophyll production, usually limited by nitrogen uptake. See [14]. Overly dark leaves can be a symptom of many diseases, including a surfeit of nitrogen uptake. SpinningSpark 17:49, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm thinking that the chlorophyll relatively untainted by the other pigments would be the brighter green, and as the synthesis of the reds and yellows catches up to the chlorophyll, that's what darkens the leaves? Gzuckier (talk) 08:31, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Main Battle Tank

Can T-90 withstand hits from rpg-7 and spg-9 on the sides , can T-90 resist these weapons without reactive armor ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tank Designer (talkcontribs) 10:44, 21 July 2013 (UTC) I am sorry because maybe these questions are not suitable here but I do not like forums . — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tank Designer (talkcontribs) 10:46, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think your questions are suitable here. They are after all reference questions, asking for the endurance of T-90 when the battle tank is contacted with rpg-7 and spg-9 on the sides. As a matter of fact, Wikipedia does have an article on T-90. It is a Russian third-generation main battle tank. rpg-7 and spg-9 are war weapons. Out of curiosity, why are you narrowing your search to those specific weapons? I am just curious, because I would have asked "Can a T-90 withstand a 10-foot-tall boulder?" Sneazy (talk) 00:09, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The question is very likely because the RPG-7 and SPG-9 are the weapons that the Syrian opposition are trying to use to stand up to T-90 tanks. SpinningSpark 01:09, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
According to the article, "During combat operations in Dagestan, there were witness accounts of one T-90 sustaining seven hits from RPGs, and remaining in action" -- which is all the answer that you could ask for! 24.23.196.85 (talk) 04:30, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, it's not "all the answer". It all depends on where a weapon hit the tank and if you're after a mobility kill, mission kill or catastrophic kill. Both the RPG-7 and SPG-9 will be able to affect a mobility kill against a T-90 if the warhead strikes the running gear. Both will also be able to affect a mission kill if the warhead hits the main gun of the T-90. Neither is likely to be able to affect a catastrophic kill however, unless the warhead enters a open hatch or something similar. WegianWarrior (talk) 09:19, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well thank you but I think that the ammo of T-90 is exposed because you know that the side amour of T-90 is very thin , what about the rubber side skirts are they effective against these weapons Tank Designer (talk) 09:50, 22 July 2013 (UTC) ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tank Designer (talkcontribs) 09:49, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What is Osmazome?

Mrs Beeton frequently uses the term "osmazome" in Household Management, in which she defines it as "that part of the meat which gives flavour and perfume to the stock." Currently, Osmazome redirects to Umami (which isn't inconsistent with Beeton's definition), but the term is not mentioned in that article, and the earliest use of "Umami" is from 1906. If there are any references to support this redirect, or for a more appropriate one (Glutamic acid (flavor), perhaps?), I think they should be included. Does anyone have any? Tevildo (talk) 18:43, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Molecular gastronomy indicates that the term "osmazome" was possibly introduced into the lexicon in the early 19th century by Marie-Antoine Carême. It is unclear (and probably unlikely) that Carême knew exactly what "osmazome" was aside from "that meaty flavor", that is, essentially Umami. --Jayron32 18:57, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
More This link gives a citation to a 1913 edition of the Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary which indicates that even by 1913, the term was considered archaic. --Jayron32 18:59, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the information! I'll see if I can track down which of Carême's publications contains the word. Tevildo (talk)
(ec) Here's what the OED says: "The name given by Thénard to that part of the aqueous extract of meat which is soluble in alcohol and contains those constituents of the flesh which determine its taste and smell." It includes a quote from 1813 that states, in part, "According to Dr. Thomson, it is very doubtful if osmazome be anything but fibrin, slightly altered by solution in water." I have no idea if the fibrin mentioned in that quotation is the same as what's called fibrin today, but I present it for what its worth. Deor (talk) 19:40, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, and in case you're interested, the word is a coinage based on Greek ὀσμή, "smell", and ζωμός, "broth" or "sauce". Deor (talk) 19:50, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks again. fr:Extrait de viande contains the relevant citations - perhaps our Meat extract article is the best target, with an appropriate translation of the French text. Tevildo (talk) 20:39, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No, I think Umami is fine. "Those constituents of the flesh which determine its taste and smell" is how I would describe the concept of Umami. To wit, from the Wikipedia article Umami, "It can be described as a pleasant "brothy" or "meaty" taste" which is a pretty close match to the OED citation. --Jayron32 20:43, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Umami is often presented as a sort of core flavor type, that can be applied to many foods. Osmazome seems specific to meat, and at least one definition gets at solution/solutes, neither of which are part of Umami. I'd support a redirect to meat extract, though perhaps a disambig to osmazome_(flavor) and osmazome_(extract) (with redirects to umami and meat extract) would be the best of both worlds. SemanticMantis (talk) 23:13, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Operating characteristics of induction motors on modified sine wave

I am looking for references on operating characteristics of induction motors when operated on modified sinewave in the region of 50 to 60 Hz for the article Power_inverter. Modified sinewave in this context is a square wave with a period of off cycle at zero crossing. I would like to know the variation in characteristics as a function of the duty cycle of this off period as well. The characteristics I am seeking are starting torque, slip rate, running efficiency at varying loads and starting current.

These references look interesting from preview, but I do not have access to the full thing.

books.google.com/books?id=U-BsAAAAIAAJ

books.google.com/books?id=LLo3FbUdYBsC

Cantaloupe2 (talk) 22:18, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Are you looking for sources, or free online sources? This paper "Analysis of the impact of pulse-width modulated inverter voltage waveforms on AC induction motors" seems to have what you want but you will need to find someone with access to IEEE Xplore if you don't want to pay for it. A friendly student perhaps? Is this related to Wikipedia article improvement in any way? SpinningSpark 01:24, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

July 22

MInimal human sustaining-crops?

Is there a list or lists of standard crops, like "wheat, corn, and broccoli" or "rice, beans, and spinach" (without special varieties, like golden rice) that would be a minimum for sustaining human life without supplements or malnutrition? A list with standard meat/products animals like cattle or chicken would be acceptable. I am looking for an absolute minimum healthy set (no malnutrition, no forced eating of greens) as a premise for a story of human colonists. Thanks. μηδείς (talk) 02:06, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

If you're talking about a sci-fi story, the scenario you propose is exceedingly implausible. Any colony is going to be supplied with hundreds of different plants, and probably a couple dozen animal species as well.
Why? Reliance on a minimal number would provide no safety net should one of the crops fail to thrive. Also, a minimal diet would be so monotonous and boring that the colonists would soon commit suicide.
Furthermore, in a future sci-fi setting, you can bet your bottom dollar that the plants and animals accompanying the colonists will be genetically modified to beef up production, nutrition and palatability. They won't resemble the fruits and vegetables you get in the store now any more than the vegetables you get in the store now resemble their ancestors from a thousand years ago or more. Expecting space colonists to be carrying heritage varieties with them strains credibility. Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 05:04, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Of course, but research would begin with a core of animals and plants, they might then modify them and add upon them. You wouldn't assume 100 earth species and then, during flight, say, oh, fuck, we didn't really need wheat, rye, and oats, and we forgot a source of vitamin A. I am thinking cows, chicken, beans, corn, and spinach will provide humans all the vitamins, fats, proteins and minerals. Dogs and horses to manage the animals, and as companions: then, say, caffeine in some source, opium and marijuana. It is easier to criticize and expand on such a list than to start with 100 and work backwards. The idea seems so obvious I was hoping some one would have a source from NASA or some environmentalists. Starting with what five organisms or less get me every vital nutrient give us a solid base. μηδείς (talk) 06:05, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You could survive indefinitely on just two foods: eggs and lemons. Eggs contain practically every nutrient you need, except vitamin C. That's where the lemons come in.
Also, if you're taking animals, you'll need plants to feed the animals.
Another thing to consider is that any plant or animal (or bacterium, fungus or alga) can, at least theoretically, be genetically engineered to provide exactly the right balance of all essential nutrients. We may not be at that stage yet, but by the time space colonization becomes feasible (well over 100 years from now), that will have certainly already long been accomplished, and we can send off our colonists with a single species.
Here are some articles I found with a quick Google search: [[15]], [[16]], [[17]], [[18]]. There are plenty more that discuss the problem in great detail. Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 07:00, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Your question cannot realy be intelligently answered without you supplying further information. The infamous "bread and water" will do for a short trip, but definitely not for a reasonable lifespan. The average person can go without any vitamin C for about 6 to 8 weeks without any ill effects unles there is infection or injury. It was not until the major European navies and merchant fleets started long world-wide voyages about 300 years ago that the need to take citrus and other foods containing vitamin C became apparent - voyages within the mediteranian for example were not long enough for survey to appear. A lot of what makes a varied diet goes toward goes toward sustaining a really good immune system and injury repair. If your travellers have been and are quarantined, they do not need a good immune system. Further, is life to be merely sustained (nobody dies), or maintained at a high level of fitness? Persons undergoing a high level of physical activity and/or a high level of mental stress need a better diet than those who are couch potatoes - it definitely NOT just a case of kilojoules. If more than one generation is to be sustained, or there are children or pregnant females, the diet must have significant calcium. Things like flouride and folate need to ensured. 124.178.151.10 (talk) 07:16, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The IP user presumably meant to spell Scurvy, the disease resulting from a deficiency of vitamin C. DreadRed (talk) 09:30, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The answer depends on how cruelly and heartlessly you want to treat your colonists. Most of the world's agrarian population, throughout most of human history, survived on only a few staple foods. They may not have had the prettiest bellies or the smallest thyroid glands, but even the most severe famines didn't wipe out the entire population, and that's all you need for a colony.
A few historical examples: prior to the Irish potato famine, the potato was the only staple crop for the Irish. Poorer peasants ate almost literally nothing but potatoes, with only very small amounts of fish and oatmeal [19]. Recently, a man ate nothing but potatoes for 2 months and experienced no ill effects [20]. Some Indian groups in North America primarily planted and ate the Three Sisters (agriculture): maize (corn), squash, and beans, which complement each other nutritionally.
I don't think calcium, fluoride, and folate need to be ensured for "children or pregnant females". Keep in mind that for virtually all of human (pre-)history, nobody even knew what calcium, fluoride, or folate were, let alone how to ensure they got enough. If children die, too bad, the women can make new ones. If pregnant women don't get enough nutrients, they can engage in cannibalism or walk around with some broken bones--either way, the human population will eventually settle to an equilibrium where people are not starving to death faster than babies can be born. If this scenario seems too heartless--and keep in mind it was the normal condition of most agriculture-dependent human populations before modernity--add food resources until the happiness vs. cost ratio is at an acceptable level. --Bowlhover (talk) 09:13, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You may get some ideas from what they did in the Biosphere 2 experiments. According to our article the first mission got 83% of its diet from their crops of bananas, papayas, sweet potatoes, beets, peanuts, lablab and cowpea beans, rice, and wheat. They also had animal products (milk, eggs, chicken) according to [21]. However, it proved impossible to keep the first mission completely sealed due to carbon dioxide build up. It's fascinating how badly a bunch of ordinary couch-potatos Americans coped with a minimal diet. They also suffered from some interesting side-effects such as turning orange due to an excess of beta-carotene. The second mission solved the CO2 problem by sealing the concrete floor (the source of the problem) but our article unfortunately does not give much in the way of diet for the second mission. This article will have the details but it is behind paywall. SpinningSpark 10:17, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Wasp-eating birds

What species of birds that are widespread in the USA (if any) are known to make wasps/yellowjackets/hornets a significant part of their diet? 24.23.196.85 (talk) 04:38, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Phosphates

At what temperatures to phosphates generally decompose at? What do they sequentially decompose to? How do they behave under electrolysis? (You'd think that this basic information would be found in Phosphates, apparently not). Plasmic Physics (talk) 11:32, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]