User talk:Dennis Brown

My barnstars

Time for a range block?

Pls see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Oglesruins -- Moxy (talk) 00:49, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

• Moxy: You probably want to revert yourself on the SPI page, go to the sock's page, then with Twinkle, choose ARV, "Select report type" choose "Sockpuppet", fill in the form including two diffs, one from the master and puppet (this is required), click the CU box and in the text box also add "asking for a CU to consider a range block". I don't have CU access, so I'm not sure what IP range should be blocked. Only a CU has access to enough information to make a rock solid range block. The way you added that comment, it won't get seen because the bot won't report that it is a case. It will just sit there. If I was feeling better, I would just do it for you. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 00:59, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

I have no clue anything about Twinkle all my edits are by hand. What should I do? -- Moxy (talk) 01:01, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

If you have Twinkle active, it will be the TW tab up top. It isn't hard. I do almost all my edits by hand, but reporting vandals, user name violations and Socks is 10x easier with TW. You just fill in the blanks, it does all the work. Otherwise, you go to WP:SPI and fill out the form in the middle of the page. If only for dealing with troublemakers, Twinkle is worth having active in your Preferences. Nothing to install, just check the box: Preferences, Gadgets, Twinkle. Easy peasy. An hour ago, I took more than a few mg of hydrocodone so I'm wisely choosing to only chat, not file reports or make blocks. Once you see it, you will be glad you have Twinkle for those rare times you need it. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 01:12, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Ok will try but can we at lest block the new account hes just blanking stuff with no explanation even reverting the refs that were fixed. As seen here. -- Moxy (talk) 01:21, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

I bet you can do it, and will be glad for it. If all else fails, you can drop a note asking for help at WP:AN, but this is one of those things that someone as active as you are will find to be a benefit. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 01:32, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Since you are active and AGK's not...

I am just gonna pass this ball to you. I have no vested interest in the article but I thought that merits attention. ~~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.69.141.170 (talk) 01:06, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

• I will reply on AGK's page. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 01:27, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Admin's Barnstar
	Thanks for TCOB at ANI. BTW, that's nice, the Gretsch stuff. Keep on rocking in the free world. Drmies (talk) 02:08, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

• Thanks Doc. I probably need to spend more time bending strings and less time bending ears here. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 12:28, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

BAG question

Anyone can comment on Wikipedia talk:Bot Approvals Group? Or only those who are members of the BAG group and those who are admins. OccultZone (Talk) 08:00, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

• Anyone can, although I always try to keep it simple. Farmer Brown - 2¢ 10:55, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

AN/I discussion

Hi! I am pretty sure I know who the editor is, although my though is that it isn't Morning277. Both Smallbones and I came to the same conclusion independently, and I've spent most of the day tracking down related accounts to see if I can work out the overall picture. It is all pretty ugly, though - at least I'm down to the last few leads on the main account. - Bilby (talk) 16:18, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

• You might consider emailing an active CU with evidence if this is a particularly persistent sock account, via WP:BEANS. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 16:57, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
• Based on their reaction, I tend to agree that it isn't Morning. Asking stuff like that is often handy to flush out a response. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 17:06, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

I'll probably end up contacting a CU. I have enough to do a number of blocks under the duck test, depending on how you interpret it, but there are likely to be other accounts. - Bilby (talk) 17:11, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Sounds good. Making the easy blocks first is helpful, gives them dots to connect. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 17:14, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Edit Filters

Hi, Dennis! Glad to see you've "unretired." I see you are an edit filter manager. I am wondering what the process is for proposing a new edit filter? High up on my list of my least favorite phrases is "24/7, 365". There is a particular editor that continuously adds that phrase while adding content about fire departments (most of which is highly undue, but that's a separate point). He never responds to talk messages so trying to discourage it through discourse is unlikely. Cannot see a situation where that particular phrase would add any helpful content. On the other hand, there are some songs and albums that contain that phrase. I am completely ignorant of how filters work, but it seems like there should be a way to allow the phrase as title or section header and allow it if it exists as a title or a section header. Not on regularly any more so please give me a talkback when you reply. Thanks. John from Idegon (talk) 23:14, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

• I never retired, just took a long break. I gave myself access to the edit filter, but I've yet to really work on filters much, so I'm the wrong guy to ask. I would say ask Reaper Eternal, but I haven't seen him around in weeks. Probably need to find someone who is active there. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 23:16, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Holy...

...shit! I've participated in 3569 AfDs! No wonder I'm such an asshole. Or, really, the other way around: since I'm an asshole, I must have sought out the worst possible environment. There's a lot of green in the matrix, so I'm not all bad. Drmies (talk) 02:32, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

I think it's the latter doc. Wow. I've only participated in 299. I should probably be desysoped. :) --kelapstick^{(on the run)} 03:17, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

• I've been in around 1400-1500, almost all before becoming an admin. I would imagine the average admin with 40k edits might have 300 is all. Guys like me and Drmies like AFD because you get to call people out and passive aggressively call them idiots, and it is expected.  ;) Like Drmies, the majority of my incivility has been at AFD. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 16:04, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
  • I have the occasional "fuck off" in an edit summary, I'm sad to say. But man it is such a wonderfully appropriate expression sometimes. I'm going to run through AfD and vote with the rest to sweeten my stats a little bit. Drmies (talk) 17:14, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
  • I expect my desysop to be in the mail tomorrow: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lauren Scruggs. I have to admit, though, that the closing admin has a knack for writing. Jimbo Wales should put them on payroll. Drmies (talk) 17:38, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
    • I don't think I've told someone to fuck off in those words, but more than once I have politely let someone know they are an idiot for starting a process or voting a certain way. I'm particularly harsh on admin who do silly things, like start a discussion on a move/rename/content when it has already been defeated 3x in 6 weeks. I just can't pretend to assume good faith at that point. Either they are either idiots or they don't care about consensus and just want to shake the magic 8 ball again. I've never been mean for someone simply disagreeing, no matter how poor their logic. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 20:06, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
      • I thought you already were on the payroll Doc. I can't recall telling someone to fuck off here. Which is surprising since I work at a mine. In the mining industry (as many others do) we tend to it use it both as a term of endearment, and minus the off, in the place of a comma. --kelapstick^{(on the run)} 02:11, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Unlock request for Mario Ferri article

Hi Dennis Brown: in April 2011 you contributed to this deletion discussion of Mario Ferri, a Canadian activist/organizer/politician; the article's deletion request was vetted by User:Xymmax, who wrote after some discourse:

"The result was delete. The rough consensus in this discussion is that the subject does not currently meet the general notability guideline or WP:POLITICIAN. I or any another admin will be happy to restore the article should the subject win the election or otherwise become notable. Xymmax"

Mr Ferri was actually notable for several reasons prior to his entry into the political arena, and handily qualifies under WP:GNG guidelines as a community activist/organizer going back to the 1980s. I visited some stacks and clipping archives and copied some 80 articles to properly rewrite his story, which now resides in my sandbox over here. Mr. Ferri was the subject of several articles written on him, including the Government of Ontario’s Corps D’Elite Award he received, presented to only a few people annually, with awardees often being cited in the unicameral Ontario legislature's proceedings. This was noted prominently in a half page article on him, "Mario Ferri Receives Corps D’Elite", and in a few other articles as well. Ferri was the object of print media and TV news long before his Wikipedia article was created, and about 30-35 articles feature prominent photos of him at various projects he initiated or at the protest demonstrations he organized, including in front of the home of the Premier of Ontario (an elected position equivalent to governor).

I posted this request to Xymmax to undelete/unlock Mario Ferri's article space, but unfortunately Xymmax has not been active on Wikipedia since mid-February. I would appreciate if you can assist by assessing Mr. Ferri's notability under GNG, and unlock his article space if you agree, so the rewritten article can be posted there. Best: HarryZilber (talk) 14:04, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

• The article isn't salted, but it would be best to review and then do a histmerg on it (blends the edits histories of both articles into one article). I'm at work, so it might take a while to fully read. If it is borderline, I would say go to WP:REFUND but if it is obvious, we would just boot it over, there is no reason to be bureaucratic about it. First I need to find time to read and research it, to know it passes the "would likely survive another AFD" test. I'm going to ping DGG as well. If he says it passes, that is good enough for me and I would happily do all the histmerg paperwork. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 14:13, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

I think the article is entitled to another try, but I cannot predict the result of AfD2, On the basis of the sourcing and tone of the proposed article, I would probably !vote for deletion--but don't judge by me, for I'm known for a rather deletionist stand towards local people & events. (on the other hand, I support notability for losing major party candidates for national-level posts, but the consensus is otherwise. ) It is justified in such situations to let the article go into mainspace, and see what happens, but my own advice is to wait for further good material, because another rejection will make it harder to try again.

The problem with tone is so pervasive it needs a total rewrite, not just a history merge. There's an overall promotional attitude--the article should describe his activities, not show off his importance. The battle over the waste dump belong in the article on it: the article says "widely credit to" and this is the sort of statement that needs to be replaced with some specific quotations from the best available NPOV sources. The minor community activities should be eliminated: they belong only on his own website. Non-specific statements like "contributed to" , "instrumental in", "a supporter of" etc. are meaningless. The awards are trivial. Quotes from the citation of the award are unreliable, just like book-jacket blurbs. Try to avoid adjective, especially adjectives of praise; try to avoid saying the same thing in several sections. DGG ( talk ) 19:06, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

Thank you DGG. I had to read and search it piecemeal today, but was already leaning in the exact same direction as you are, that the tone is too promotional. I'm generally very lenient on local people, culture and events as it is a bit part of what I write, but I think that DGG is right that it needs cleaning up if it is to stand a chance. Take DGG's advice, tone down the adoration just a bit, and I will review to move when you are done. Even then, it is a 50/50 chance as almost all he is known for is very local, but if we are going to put it out there, lets do it in a way that gives it the best chance. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 21:35, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing out the article's fawning tone. Most of the adjectives are now gone and some material on the waste facility has been removed and will be transferred to the Keele Valley Landfill article instead. I'd missed the basics of reporting just the facts, facts and facts, and have now taken Saint-Exupery's advice more to heart ("a work is complete not when there isn't anything left to add, but when there isn't anything left to remove"). A second reading would be appreciated. Best: HarryZilber (talk) 18:22, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

• Give me a day. I have to hit the gym (doctor's orders) then I have a hot date with the Mrs. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 18:25, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

If it's a hot enough date, you don't need the gym ;-) the panda ₯’ 23:58, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps it was a bit too hot and distracting  ;-)

In any event with the extra time I went into an online database to improve the sourcing and pulled out a number major media articles on Ferri and his work, including from the Toronto Star, Canada's largest circulation paper. The database also provided two articles of criticism which are now included for more balanced coverage. Best: HarryZilber (talk) 17:35, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

The draft that Harryzilber has created at User:Harryzilber/sandbox looks like it might survive AfD. If restored to article space it probably needs to be histmerged with the old article now sitting under Mario Ferri. EdJohnston (talk) 18:13, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

History merge complete. I didn't bother with the talk page. Good work, hope it sticks. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 18:25, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Gracias/Dekuji/Maltsomesc/Spasbo/Merci/Siesiu/Obrigado and thank you, DGG and EdJohnston for the assist. Best: HarryZilber (talk) 21:47, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

George Marsh (martyr)

Hello, a year ago you were kind enough to help me at George Marsh (martyr) in a little war of reverts that ended in sockpuppetry. The editor has returned and I have reverted his addition. Can ping I you if he reverts me because I'm not in the mood for an edit war. J3Mrs (talk) 17:41, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

• I've added a note on the talk page. He was a sockmaster, and the individual socks were indef blocked, but a first time sockmaster usually only gets a week or two, as he did. If he doesn't start an edit war, then all is well. Just remember that WP:3RR is in effect, this isn't vandalism, so don't get caught up in an edit war yourself. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 18:16, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Sincere apologies for the unnecessary sockpuppetry log, Dennis. Did not realise you were so Trigger happy .... it's just your awesome efficiency. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:12, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
    • Anyone that likes Weird Al is alright in my book ;) Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 23:14, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

I should have thanked you here not elsewhere for your time and patience, my only excuse is the funeral wouldn't wait for me. Thanks again. J3Mrs (talk) 09:55, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

• No problem. Always willing to lend a hand. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 11:05, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

Ghana

Hello Denis, I have worked on the page and removed the excessive repetitions of the Akan groups, but the Ghana and USA match is coming up, during the last world cup the Ghanaian team scored against the USA and if I remember there was some vandalism so please keep an eye on the page as a precaution, if its possible to limit edits on it for a few days, I think it will be helpful thanks Thesunshinesate (talk) 20:10, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

• Will do what I can. If vandalism comes back, you are welcome to ping here but it might be faster to just file it at WP:RFPP. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 20:59, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Response to msg left on my talk page...."Please hold off edits to the article and go to the talk page first. I'm getting calls for protection but you are the only one editing. I would prefer if you went to the talk page and addressed some concerns there, and developed consensus first. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 22:38, 12 June 2014 (UTC)"

• honestly I don't need to go on talk page because there is nothing for me to discuss. I've already gone back and fourth with the other editor and said what I had to say about him removing sources and attacking the content yet the hasn't provided anything that discredit or provide a reason that what is written shouldn't be there other than it being about the Akans. I don't have else to say I have said it all. As for you talking about "calls" for protection. I only asked you to look out for the page because of the upcoming game. I've never asked you for anything else and as you said herw and the talk page if vandalism occurs or an edit war arise it will be reportedThesunshinesate (talk) 23:48, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
  • It isn't about me or your request. My job is to prevent problems, which is why I left the note. It was another admin that wanted me to protect the article. I'm not debating the content, I'm saying that when content is being disputed, we ALL are obligated to use the talk page. None of us are exempt. This is how we avoid edit wars and fights, we stop and talk first. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 23:54, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

• • • Denis, I thought you meant I was trying to make you take my side my apologies, but as for the talk page I went and said what I had to say, I'm noneThesunshinesate (talk) 01:17, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

RfA talk page

Please feel free to delete the whole exchange, including my comments. I should have known better than to feed the troll. --MelanieN (talk) 01:07, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

• No harm done, I've done the same when I've thought it might be worthwhile. I just took advantage of the opportunity to request page protection and that exchange helped establish the need. 28bytes was kind enough to protect then clean up. It all worked out. If I haven't told you recently, I consider you one of the good ones. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 01:43, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Thank you, I appreciate that! --MelanieN (talk) 04:59, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

Your inappropriate response to my simple question to you

In the Dave Brat article I asked a good faith question to you to get your input on a discussion taking place on the Brat talk page. Your response was an attempt to intimidate me into silence and to threaten me into submissiveness. I did not know that is the way that admins are suppose to act when editing Wikipedia. You can review your snarky, inappropriate response that falsely accuses me of "disrupting" wikipedia here: false claim by an admin of me "disrupting" wikipedia when I was simply asking an admin for his opinion. Is this an issue that I take up with you or with a certain Notice Board? Do you think Jimbo would look at my simple question as "disrupting Wikipedia" like you do? What do you think? It is a talk page. I try to talk to you. If you did not want to answer you could have simply said that. Why did not have to lie and say that I was "disrupting Wikipedia"? That has to be one of most immature, responses that I have ever gotten from an admin. It was truly unprofessional. So, please help me out, who do I talk to about this? Are you the only source?--NK (talk) 20:42, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

• You can take it to WP:ANI if you feel I did something inappropriate. Your actions on that page are inappropriate, accusing people of POV, putting words into other's mouths, so if you feel I've wronged you, WP:ANI is the place. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 20:45, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

• I gave you the link for "incidents", but you instead chose drama mongering on Jimmy's page. It's actually a bit humorous, but I digress. If you would stick with the merits on the Dave Brat RFC and less on making points, putting words in people's mouths and accusing others of bad faith, you might actually find more success in getting others to answer your questions. If the question is in bath faith, I'm not interested in answering it. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 21:21, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

User talk: Jimbo Wales

The OP has started a thread at User talk: Jimbo Wales. (By the way, the original exchange did look to me like a hostile question. Maybe the OP is unaware of when a question looks hostile on the Internet.) Robert McClenon (talk) 21:32, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

• Thanks, I saw. You are correct that my interpretation of asking hostile questions, loaded questions or otherwise is itself a disruptive practice, designed to get someone to back down from their !vote. His later declarations on the page were just as bad. Assumptive questions and an inability to accept that anyone else is as clever as he and just might have a different opinion. Anyway, anyone jumping to Jimmy's page is usually more concerned with creating drama than finding solutions. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 21:37, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Please. What later declarations are you talking about? And this next question is NOT a rhetorical question and it is a good faith question: Please outline for me the "later declarations on the page" that you are referring to? Please outline this. I am not trying to disrupt Wikipedia. I just want to know what you are referring to. You made the statement please show me what I said as "later declarations." I stopped participating on that talk page after your over the top response to my question. Also, how can you jump to the conclusion that I think that no one is as clever as me? I never stated that and I don't believe that. That is a personal attack. Please do not engage in personal attacks.--NK (talk) 01:27, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

And now you are warning me about personal attacks? I'm genuinely baffled. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 01:42, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

• As a number of people have opined on your question and follow up, and they universally found it to be pointed and or disruptive, I have collapsed that portion of the discussion without comment. In case you don't know, it is quite common to do that to exchanges that only serve as a distraction in a formatted discussion or poll. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 11:17, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

perhaps

See [1] last section. Cheers. Collect (talk) 15:17, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

old Afd notices

No need to reply. I have placed old afd notices on the talk pages of Expulsion of Egyptian Jews (1956) and CyberBerkut, for which you, today, closed the deletion discussions. No action is required. --Bejnar (talk) 19:16, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

• Those are optional, but I like them as well, I just forgot. Thanks. I just back into working with AFDs after 2 years of not doing much there. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 19:21, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Chronology of UFWC

dear Sir,

You have deleted that article. How can I find the information mentioned in it? Կարեն Վարդանյան (talk) 21:31, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

• http://www.ufwc.co.uk/ under "results", as that was where all the data came from. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 21:54, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

• Sir, I knew about results at that site. I meant that there were chronology and notes in the article here, which are not there in that site. Կարեն Վարդանյան (talk) 09:20, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
  • The article Chronology of the Unofficial Football World Championships has been deleted per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chronology of the Unofficial Football World Championships, so the information is no longer accessible to the public. That means the only place to find the information is at the single source that was used to create it in the first place. Some of the information might be found at Unofficial Football World Championships. The chronology is absolutely on that website, the only information that I saw that wasn't was the "days held". Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 12:43, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Please reblock this user

This 68.81.21.243 is reeking havoc an several pages. I see you have blocked him previously. VictoriaGrayson (talk) 22:21, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

• IPs are tricky, you never know how fast they cycle into a new IP for each user. Regardless, it is the same blocked editor User:Tenzinwestcoast, and I just put 3 months worth of block on that IP. Feel free to revert any of their edits that need it. You are welcome to ping me here if he comes back. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 22:27, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks.VictoriaGrayson (talk) 22:31, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Please see the expired semi-protection at Dorje Shugden page, and the current vandalism. Also another IP, 46.44.222.109 restoring the exact edits of the last IP.VictoriaGrayson (talk) 06:33, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

This is a garden variety content dispute, not vandalism, VictoriaGrayson. Vandalism has a very specific and narrow meaning here on Wikipedia. Please don't misuse the term. We may be dealing with tenacious, disruptive POV pushers. But that's not vandalism. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 07:02, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) @VictoriaGrayson: Check WP:ATWV. If other user was a sock puppet, call him that, not vandal. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 08:04, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Whatever you want to call it, he is deleting academic material, and rephrasing text at Dorje Shugden. Bushranger called it vandalism, so I also called it vandalism. Get off my case, respectfully.VictoriaGrayson (talk) 14:03, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

• As this is a long term problem, I've semi-protected the page for 3 months. If others need it for having ongoing issues, ping me here and I will review each article individually. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 14:06, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

DB, do you want to see the Shugden situation here?. It seems every Admin is on vacation.Heicth (talk) 14:40, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

• Bushranger unblocked one, [2], so it is better to ask him about it. As for being "on vacation", of course they can't be on vacation, this is a volunteer job ;) I'm at work currently and researching an admin abuse case while doing stuff I'm getting paid to do, it might better be at an SPI case. I will try, but it is Monday 10:44am where I live. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 14:44, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Do you want to see whats going on at Trijang Lobsang Yeshe Tenzin Gyatso?VictoriaGrayson (talk) 20:57, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

• I've protected that a≠rticle as well, I get the feeling that meatpuppetry is afoot. As such, blocking isn't very effective but protection can be. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 21:18, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Uh oh. I think I removed the semi-protection by reverting the article. Is that even possible?VictoriaGrayson (talk) 21:30, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Nope :) You just removed the little lock thingy that lets people know it is semi-protected. If you go back through the edits, I bet you can figure out which part it is and put it back. Always at the top of the article. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 21:32, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Oh okay. I thought they made me into an Admin.VictoriaGrayson (talk) 21:35, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

No, you would have a LOT more scars and open wounds if you made admin. :) Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 21:37, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

I can see admining Wikipedia is a pain in the Buttocks.VictoriaGrayson (talk) 21:40, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Gatwick Airport

Hello Dennis, Could I please draw your attention to unregistered user IP 86.156.53.27. He/she has made the same seven unreferenced/POV edits to Gatwick Airport today and has totally ignored requests from myself and admin. MilborneOne to stop. As you will know, I have no intention of edit warring, but do feel that these actions should be stopped. I have also pinged MilborneOne, but guess he has retired for the night. With best regards, David, David J Johnson (talk) 22:41, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

• I think that was enough reverts, so I did a short block as they seem very focused on promoting the organization more than building an encyclopedia. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 22:44, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Dennis, Many thanks for your help. Best regards, David, David J Johnson (talk) 22:49, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Maybe the page will require protection, it is on its way. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 08:07, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Your ruining all my fun

Extended content

Come on Farmer Brown, your ruining all my fun and taking Wikipedia too seriously. Its just a website and not a very good one. People treat it like a joke and treat editors abusively so I'm just doing what has been shown to me repeatedly as acceptable behavior on this site. Just write it off as Bold or IAR. If the arbs and admins on this site have no respect for the rules, then there is no reason for me too either. I tried in every way to extend the olive branch and put this little conflict behind us but no one wants too and just wants to spit in my face. So I will continue to just play around and have fun. Cheers and happy editing. K NYBradley (talk) 00:44, 17 June 2014 (UTC) And I'm just doing what I do, if not me, it would be someone else. If I thought it was actually accomplishing something, it would be easy to pass by and do nothing, but it isn't, it's just kind of petty at this point. If you have given up on Wikipedia, that is fine, but I'm still trying to make a positive difference in my tiny corner of the place. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 00:54, 17 June 2014 (UTC) Oh sure I get that, I know its nothing personal. At least I still have some respect for you unlike a lot of the other schucks around this place. Just think if this as my new niche. I am helping the Admins practice their craft and filling a needed position as a training aid to the admins. My hope is that someday someone say you know what, this isn't working and why don't we just unblock this dick and see what happens since the block isn't working anyway. Cheers K El Fairy One (talk) 01:01, 17 June 2014 (UTC) I don't think you're going about it the right way. If you were improving articles and getting blocked, that would be one thing (I've seen it happen, they get unblocked because admin gave up. Rare, but it happens). But not the way you are going about it. You're going to do what you're going to do, but from my perspective, as someone who doesn't have it out for you, who doesn't hate you and even gave neutral votes of moral support at two of your RFAs....it just seems silly and petty, and I'm sorry, but beneath you. If Wikipedia really doesn't matter to you, move on. If it does, move in a smarter direction. Again, do what you want, all I can do is offer an objective (I think) perspective. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 01:19, 17 June 2014 (UTC) There is no doubt your right and I freely admit that its not the right way to go about it and I had wanted to avoid it. I chose to go down this road not to get back on the site but to show what happens when a few members of the community tells a dedicated and high output editor they can't be trusted after years of contributions. Its also to show what happens when admins are allowed to abuse the tools with no ramifications and what happens when a dedicated contributor is banned for a snide comment. One that wasn't nearly as bad as a whole bunch of them that the arbs themselves have made in the past few weeks I might add. Especially when a good number of them abuse the admin tools on a regular basis and nothing is done. Add to that the fact some asshole tried to get me fired. Make no mistake, I know I won't be allowed back so I gave up trying but I'm still not going away until I am unblocked and no one has the balls to unblock my account. Frankly I stopped for three weeks thinking fine I'll just take it and come back later and fight it and a dozen editors were blocked and accused of being me and I was accused of vandalism. So it was then I decided it didn't matter if I edited or not, I was going to get blamed for it anyway, so I may as well go ahead. I also don't expect anyone to understand. So given all that, why would I want to contribute positively? K El Fairy One (talk) 01:30, 17 June 2014 (UTC) Honestly, because I'm not used to seeing you let others control your reactions like this, not for such extended periods, anyway. I just had a different impression of you, it seems out of character to take it this far. Maybe that is my fault. a wrong impression, I don't know. It isn't making my life fun, I feel stuck in the middle, uncomfortable so, to be honest. If things were different and there wasn't all the useless socking, there could be some kind of solution, given enough time. Maybe that is my problem, I'm very much a solution oriented person. I don't worry about justice, just solutions. There is no justice here and seeking it is a fool's game, as you know. So I don't know what to do other than block you when you go to their pages. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 01:46, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Admin suggestion

Hi Dennis. You recently wrote "We need more active admin .... but up to date admin". Has anyone asked XXSNUGGUMSXX (talk · contribs) if they're interested in running for the mop? I've seen lots of content work, (15,000 edits, 66% in article space) plenty of activity in GA and FA reviews, often in high visibility articles, and they always seems to offer good advice and a cool head. Their user page says they want to be an admin, so perhaps somebody could enquire about it. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 11:49, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

As much as I would like to be one someday and highly appreciate such an offer, I feel it's too soon to run. I'm not sure if I have enough experience yet. Snuggums (talk • contributions) 11:54, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

You have plenty of edits, but I understand if you don't think you've had enough time. Actually, it is a good sign. If you think it is something that might interest you in 6 to 12 months, but you want to learn some basics along the way that will help you, let me know. I can do a review and point you in the right direction to gain some experience that might help towards that end. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 12:19, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Talking about the candidate, I guess your block history is not impressive. I haven't looked about the incident behind your blocks but I just want to add that it is one important point majority of voters on RFA would count. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 12:31, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Ouch. Hadn't seen that. From my estimation, you need at least 18 months from the last block, and even then, some will oppose. We have had admin pass with block logs, even with unanimous consent (Berean Hunter is one example) but it takes time for old wounds to heal. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 12:38, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Yikes! I wasn't expecting a block log. However, having looked through it, I think there are very extenuating circumstances, and I also note that Snuggums took the block with good grace, apologising for anything they did wrong and sitting it out after one request. Not the pattern we often see with socks, which tend to leave a trail of declined requests. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 13:31, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

However, User:Ritchie333 himself has a clean block log, as well as lots of other desirable admin qualities... I seem to recall a conversation some time back where I suggested I'd support you running for RFA, Ritchie, what say you? Still up for it? Yunshui ^雲_水 12:41, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Admin Acalamari had previously advised me that if I made any attempt to run for admin within a year of being blocked, chances are it would be quickly rejected. This was another reason I (for now) decline running. Snuggums (talk • contributions) 12:43, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

He is correct. Fortunately, it doesn't mean a lifetime bar from betting the bit, just that you have a few things to prove, which just takes time. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 12:46, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

You know I was surprised by this RFA.[3] Though he was blocked like 4 years ago, never again. As my edit count is growing, I am probably more concerned with blocks than ever. Sticking to self-imposed 1rr is best idea. Great editors such as GoingBatty, Ser Amantio di Nicolao and few others haven't got any blocks and they have 100,000s of edits. It is simply amazing! OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 12:47, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Thing is, edits aren't the key thing as long as you have "enough". I nom'ed Basalisk, he had about 6k edits. I had 18k when I ran. More edits help, and I think that the more edits you have, the more likely they will let little things slide since it is a smart part of the whole, but it seems that demeanor is the key, how you handle disputes, as well as having some experience with admin areas, even if only slight. I'm that way, I'm more concerned about their likelihood of abuse than anything else. Most everything else you learn on the job. You can teach tools, you can't teach demeanor. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 12:52, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Definitely stick to 1RR, or even 0. It does mean you look at an article and think "but this is wrong" but I find it highly likely that the locus of the dispute, whatever it is, will be lost on most readers. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 14:22, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

When I've "healed" enough, it is quite nice to know you'd be willing to guide me before I run for admin :). Snuggums (talk • contributions) 13:05, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

The problem I've got with putting myself forward for the mop is that I very occasionally (and it really is only about once every six months on average) get cross with someone and have a pop at them. I think on every occasion it's been somebody else saying or implying something in the US is better than that in the UK (example here) which seems to press my bezerk button (even though my partner is from the US). I've always thought that would kill an RfA stone dead if the target turns up to !vote "oppose". You can dig out other examples in my contributions. Don't know if that'll be an issue. Anyway, Snuggums, I personally think you've got the right attitude and demeanour and even your block actually strengthens your cause to me. Something to think about, anyway. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 13:31, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

• I remember seeing that but didn't say anything at the time as I didn't see a benefit in the heat of the moment. I think you took that comment out of context. He was just saying that sometimes a title will point to a UK target, sometimes a US target. Durham is a town near me, a very key city in North Carolina, but it is properly pointed at a UK subject, not the Durham, North Carolina article. I saw it as him just giving an example, to counterpoint the fact that Raleigh should (at least arguably) point to Raleigh, North Carolina. I thought the comment added balance, and wasn't saying anything was better than anything else. I have no idea how that was supposed to be bigoted. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 13:36, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

It wasn't at all - I was just annoyed, and felt the reference to Durham was irrelevant to the discussion. A simple "Consensus has shown that there is sufficient evidence for the NC town to be the primary topic" would have been better. I would have self-reverted if somebody else hadn't got in first. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 13:42, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Well, I thought it added an example to show it wasn't a US bias thing, so the reaction honestly confused me. In closing, it is sometimes helpful to compare or contrast so it doesn't look like it IS US bias. I've done similar. One thing about getting the bit, you are a bit under the microscope at all times, so I've found myself biting my tongue a lot more than before. You don't have a choice, in order to tamp down drama. It isn't always easy, and I'm not always successful. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 13:45, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Thank you very much Ritchie :D, but could you perhaps elaborate on how my blocks strengthen my cause? Snuggums (talk • contributions) 14:09, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

I meant I felt your conduct during your block puts you in more positive light than most editors who get blocked. You showed remorse and remained calm, when it would have been so easy to reply with something like "I did not do this" (which I don't think would have worked). I really don't have a good answer for how we can handle this - if somebody accuses you of editing while logged out and you can't prove it wasn't you, what can you do? Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 14:16, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Makes sense to me. Snuggums (talk • contributions) 14:46, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Okay, let me conclude by proposing this to Dennis and @Yunshui:. Would you both be prepared to consider filing an RfA for myself (and Snuggums, if they want it) sixths months from now (January 2015) provided you can find no evidence whatsoever of angry mastadons or toy throwing in that time period, regardless of what conflicts or disagreements come up? Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 17:24, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

• I would. I think we all know what the problems are, you tend to vent a bit more than you need, but 6-9 months of demonstrating that it is a choice and not central to your character should be sufficient. With the bit, you really MUST pull back a little to keep the peace, but I think you are fully capable of doing that. Unquestionably, you have a good grasp of policy and like a hand full of others, even when I disagree with you, I tend to learn something new. I think Snuggums needs closer to 12-18 months due to the block and I haven't looked at his history enough to make a decision, but I would be open minded. I don't think a history with bumps along the way should disqualify anyone from being an admin. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 18:34, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Dennis, I've essentially been "clean"—so to speak—since the end of March. There's no way I'd run for admin sooner than April 2015. Been trying to keep a good standing for as long as possible. Snuggums (talk • contributions) 20:38, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
    • Its a good start. Life is easier around here if you get along. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 20:40, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

You can definitely count me in for a co-nom, in both cases. I look forward to seeing you both with the mop this time next year. Yunshui ^雲_水 08:45, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

MosesM1017 repeatedly introducing deliberate factual errors in articles

Hello. I noticed an unconstructive edit by MosesM1017 on your user page, so I reverted it. I then took a look at his talk page and contributions, and noticed both the final warning you had given him and that all of the three edits he had made today after being given the warning were vandalism, introducing deliberate factual errors, resulting in him being reported by me at WP:AIV for vandalism after being given a final warning. So either his case waits in line there for whatever time it takes, or you decide his fate... Thomas.W ^talk 18:44, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

• It sounds so ominous when you say it like that. Will probably let it set there, let a second set of eyes see it. Always good for cases like this. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 18:48, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

• Fair enough. It will be a third set of eyes, though, since I took a look at his edits too. And I wouldn't have reported him if I hadn't felt it was blockable... Thomas.W ^talk 18:57, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

• Although I haven't said as much, it looks like it is a WP:CIR issue, to be frank. I never decide those alone and prefer at least two admin determine that a block is needed. Those are touchy situations, and I get the feeling that is the problem, rather than just plain vandalism. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 19:01, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

• It definitely looks like a CIR-issue, combined with a desire to test how far he can go without being blocked. Just so he knows the next time he creates an account. Thomas.W ^talk 19:06, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

• Blocked for 48 hours. The good thing is that it isn't just you and I that sees the problem. If he comes back doing the same, a longer block will be applied. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 21:04, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

• Good. It shows that I'm not totally off the mark. Editors like MosesM1017, i.e. editors who deliberately introduce factual errors in articles, a type of vandalism that is often very difficult to detect, cause a lot more damage to Wikipedia than vandals posting four-letter words or replacing whole articles with nonsense characters, since repeatedly finding errors in articles can make readers believe that nothing they read on Wikipedia can be trusted. Thomas.W ^talk 21:17, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

We were just talking about that at the village pump. Actually, his is CIR, I've seen a stealth vandal that went for over a year, a few edits a week, and once uncovered, created total hell to go back and undo all the little changes they made. That is just malicious. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 21:20, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Reverted portion of Flathead engine article.

Hello, Dennis. I am new here, so i was not sure if you could see my answer on my user talk page, so I will put it here in whole too. My appologies, if this is redundant message.

"I reverted you on the rather large deletion. In the spirit of WP:BRD, please go to the talk page of that article and discuss why you want to delete such a large section that is referenced. I'm open minded and will listen, but any time we remove 20 percent of the whole article, it is pretty common for other editors to want to at least discuss it first. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 21:45, 16 June 2014 (UTC) Hello Dennis. We have discussed this with the user who wrote that part in Finnish version on the article. In there we come to a conclusion that it should be removed, as it does have personal views about it. Fact of the matter is, that those proposed improvements on the flathead are based on technology that is still on develobment phase, or have not been proven in any way. And it has been discussed in other forum, that is more engine oriented, and determined that it would not make flathead any more potential option in todays world, because engine has fault in its basic design, that could not be overcomed. User who wrote the finnish article and part that has been removed, is the same person who editet part "potentials" to this flathead article. That is why i did not see why it should be discussed again. Heikki Vainionpää (talk) 05:41, 17 June 2014 (UTC)" Heikki Vainionpää (talk) 20:10, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

• The place to discuss is really at Talk:Flathead engine. As for the Finnish Wiki, that is completely unrelated. We never use decisions from other language Wikis on other wikis. Nothing wrong with introducing the same argument here, but each language Wiki is 100% different with different rules, different standards of notability, verification, etc. The opposite is also true, if we decide to delete an article or section on the English Wikipedia, that doesn't mean any other language Wiki has to do the same. The same is true for other forums. Again, introduce the idea and discuss with others, I would love to here it there on the talk page of the article. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 20:15, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Fair enough. I thought that there would be no need to discuss a matter that is clearly not done in accordance to wikipedia rules. But now i have started a discussion about removal of the articles partition. Thank you from your advise. Heikki Vainionpää (talk) 14:10, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Dennis Brown. You have new messages at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Roller sport in India.
Message added 06:42, 18 June 2014 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

NorthAmerica¹⁰⁰⁰ 06:42, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

New user with good experience?

I was amazed to see a new user joined today with 7 edits starting his life on Wikipedia from AfD! See his contribs; all his edits are at AfD. This makes me concerned that he might be (I'm not sure) a sock of somewhat experienced blocked user (I don't know who). It is very odd (for me) to see a very new user starts from AfD. So, I wanted you to keep an eye on his contribs. Thanks, Jim Carter ^(talk) 12:36, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

• I already looked at that first thing this morning, was already keeping an eye out, but I appreciate the heads up. ;) I agree that it is doubtful this is their first account, although I won't jump to conclusions just yet. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 12:38, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Dennis Brown, Admin-about-town

Wow, you're famous — you have your very own Wikipediocracy thread, with controversy and spilled bile and everything. LINK. Hope you are doing well. I love ya, man, keep up the good work! All the best, —Tim /// Carrite (talk) 01:42, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

• Its funny how much factually incorrect stuff is there. Like deleting my page...any editor that asks me to delete their user page or any other page other than talk, I do it no questions asked. Always have. There is a reason I deleted it, but it isn't what anyone would think. I just haven't bothered undeleting it, there isn't anything to hide. I probably AM ANI's biggest participant. So what? It isn't by accident, I said I intended to patrol ANI in my RFA, Q1 [4]. And the political stuff is even funnier. I get called a liberal as much as I get called a conservative here. A tool of the Dems, or a patsy for the GOP. Anyone that looked would know I'm neither, although I don't advertise my politics and avoid editing politics (check the Dave Brat article, I've done ZERO article edits...oops, they didn't notice that, did they?). And no one knows my religion here. The "is that his real name? stuff is every funnier. Anyone with the tech savvy of a 15 year old could locate me and verify that its my real name. Tarantino got it right because he bothered to look. I've never tried to hide it, I just don't advertise it in plain site. I've worked there 20 years, plus spinning off my own company currently, which is why I can the COI disclaimer on my user page. Anyway, I appreciate your kind words there, but that thread kind of shows why I don't frequent the website. I personally have plenty of complaints about Wikipedia, but I find people there get it wrong as much as they get it right. Not talking about anyone in that thread specifically, but some users on that site don't really care about the truth, they just want to run people down. And they have less accountability than Wikipedia itself, so I don't see the point, and I can't take it too serious. But thanks for the link, it was slightly amusing, slightly annoying, but not very enlightening. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 02:15, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

  I asked to have my Wikipediocracy account retired some time ago, and I've got no intention of ever going back there. The amount of bitchy backbiting from a few members makes even WP look like Eden. Eric Corbett 14:42, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

  It is a shame, but I DO think that an outside website to act like a watchdog is a good thing in theory, but I've not seen it in practice. There are plenty of reasons to complain about admin, the power structure, or other aspects of Wikipedia. I screw up too, and have been called out onwiki and will admit it. There are real issues at enwp and it isn't always easy to discuss them here. Suffice it to say that not every person of power likes to see others talk about our flaws. That was one of the ideas behind WP:WER, to discuss our flaws, and as you know, not everyone with extra bits is happy with WP:WER. Maybe someday someone will make a website to do what WPO promised, with actual accountability for what people claim there. Then I would love to join a website. Otherwise, it is just hypocritical. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 14:57, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

  I agree. WP is too often intolerant of criticism here, as evidenced by my ArbCom ban on participation at WP:RFA and even of voicing criticism of the way that admins are chosen or of admins in general. So there's a definite need for somewhere issues like those and many others can be explored without it being shut down by the secret police. But unfortunately WPO is very far from being that place. Eric Corbett 15:07, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

  On a similar vein, I got an email off-wiki the other day saying I should look at a particular thread over there. I think with something the size and scale of Wikipedia, that takes in anyone from anywhere no questions asked, it's inevitable that there will be culture clashes, disagreements and criticism just like there are in the real world. The basic premise of Wikipediocracy as a neutral third-party criticism site is a sound one, playing Jeremy Paxman to Wikipedia's Michael Howard, some of the stuff on the site such as problems with Visual Editor and opinions on paid editing can be fair and reasonable comment, and some of the forum posts have made me cheer from the sidelines. But otherwise, yeah, I share your concerns that there's too much heat in there. I remember reading stuff on a forum somewhere where a couple of chaps took exception to something I said once and called me a nazi and worse - you just need to shrug it off. Don't hate the haters. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 15:20, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

All understood. Take care and don't be a stranger! —Tim //// Carrite (talk) 14:22, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

Same to you. If I ever get passed all this real life stuff, we should work together on bringing an article to GA. If we can work through all that, then we will be true friends ;) Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 14:39, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

Afd closes

Heya, thanks for helping to close AfDs... it can get wretchedly backlogged. :( Anyway, as a quick heads up, be sure to subst: the {{afd top}} and {{afd bottom}} templates, else the bots won't pick up on the fact that the discussion's actually been closed. Personally, I just use User:Mr.Z-man/closeAFD, because it takes at least 95% of the hassle out of the whole closing process (it even updates talk pages on keeps/merges + deals with relists gracefully). Anyway, thanks again, and cheers =) --slakr^\ talk / 02:29, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

• Facepalm I just started closing after two years and keep forgetting that. I'm an idiot. Thank you for fixing. I will install that, as I intend to start helping out with a half dozen or so most days, just to keep the backlog under control. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 02:30, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
• Jeez, Slakr, that script is insanely easy to use, very similar to the SPI scripts. Wish I had found that weeks ago. Thanks again! Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 13:34, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

A beer for you!

Don't drive, that is the most important thing.

A beer for you. And some extra beer. Hafspajen (talk) 17:16, 19 June 2014 (UTC) Extra beer.

• An admin with beer is a dangerous thing...but an admin with EXTRA beer? You're just asking for trouble. ;) Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 19:24, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

Deletion review for The Law of One (Ra material)

An editor has asked for a deletion review of The Law of One (Ra material). Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. Immanuel Thoughtmaker (talk) 20:20, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

• Thanks for the heads up. Unless I'm specifically asked a question, I will probably just sit it out and allow the community to review my close without my interference. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 20:38, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

UFWC page move request

• Hello, I noticed that you were the one that deleted the Chronology of the Unofficial Football World Championships page. Is there any way you could move that deleted page to my user space for me? I have an idea to merge it to Unofficial Football World Championships without it taking up too much room and I would need the data to do that. It seems like there are some people who do want to view the chronology, especially with the World Cup happening now. Thanks, Tavix |  Talk  14:50, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

•  Done. Tavix, I moved to User:Tavix/Chronology of the Unofficial Football World Championships. Please ping me again in a week or two when you are done, so I can move it back and restore it to its deleted state. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 20:49, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

Hi Dennis Brown, I noticed the above editor has recreated the deleted information in the Unofficial Football World Championships article. They are suggesting you gave them permission. Isn't this defeating the object of deleting unencyclopedic information at AfD, only to recreate it elsewhere? Your AfD decision was "delete", not "merge", after all. Sionk (talk) 06:42, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

He didn't recreate it, I undeleted it and put it in his user space so parts of it could be incorporated into the main article. I believe it was originally split from that article then expanded. This would be helping him restore the article to a state before the split. If he was attempting to add all that material, I would object (as others would on the talk page of the article) but he isn't. As far as "delete" versus "merge", a "delete" doesn't disqualify the material from being used, just the material from being a stand alone article. He's added 15k, which is admittedly a big chunk (but less than half of the original article). With all that material, the article is around 51k, which isn't particularly huge. The place to discuss whether or not it should be included would be the talk page of the article. I generally don't get into those discussions and leave it to you guys, who edit the article regularly. He added, you reverted, now according to WP:BRD, he needs to take it to the talk page and you guys can figure out which parts (or all, or nothing) best serve the reader. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 09:45, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

• All right, you guys win. Go ahead and delete it from my user space then. Just thought I was being helpful. Tavix |  Talk  14:38, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
•  Done Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 16:56, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Question

Dennis, do contributions of banned users have to be removed even if they improve an article (e.g., [5]). Seems stupid, but I can't find anything either way in my skimming of the banning policy. Go Phightins! 19:44, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

"This does not mean that edits must be reverted just because they were made by a banned editor (obviously helpful changes, such as fixing typos or undoing vandalism, can be allowed to stand), but the presumption in ambiguous cases should be to revert." seems to imply that they can stand, but I don't want to step on any toes. Go Phightins! 19:45, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Some are slavish to the idea that edits MUST be reverted. "We must not reward socks!" is the mantra, and while I respect that, I don't think cutting off our noses to spite our faces is wise. Personally, if the edits are middle of the road quality or less, I tend to revert but if they do improve the article, I leave them alone. If I'm the one that made the block and someone comes behind and re-reverts me, or reverts where I wouldn't have, I just walk away and leave it to the editors to hash out. I keep the line between editing and admining a bold one. If I'm uninvolved, then I'm not really "admining", I'm just an editor and use my best judgement. Policy does not require that we revert socks, although it encourages it. Thus it is a judgement call, but a judgement of the editors (community), not the admins. We don't enforce policy that uses the word "should" like we do "must" except in the most obvious cases. If the article was created by a sock and almost no one has edited it, then it is almost always deleted under CSD#G5, obviously as an admin. I know I've answered a lot of questions and it might seem a bit confusing, but the right answer depends on the circumstances. And of course, your own judgement may be slightly different than mine in any given circumstance. If I've erred or left something out, someone will correct me shortly :) Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 19:58, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) I was involved in a case of this recently, and my feeling is that if we find ourselves fighting to prevent someone improving the encyclopedia, then something has gone badly wrong - I'm not at all surprised how our performance here is often seen by outsiders as a weird translocation of arse and elbow. My suggestion is that, when you see someone stupidly removing good content just because it was added by an officially-condemned unperson, you revert the removal and comment that you personally take responsibility for it now - that way you are saying "I'm adding this content, which I took from suitably-licensed material written by a third party". -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 08:54, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) If we'd revert everything banned users have contributed, we would have no "Remember not, Lord, our offences", for example, - we would loose a lot! Please tell me that we can't be so stupid. I keep translating the works of the banned and sing their praises, sometimes silenced, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:58, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

help

Well not sure how to word it but im here again with a request for a standard offer I have had it before twice and I will be going abroad for a several months so today is probably the day when you wont see my ip until december Its just a simple request I know I have broken the rules by removing pov pushers when I am banned but if I can lay of for a long time and be given a chance LAST CHANCE I can make a legitimate and honest effort not to sock ever again I have been doing it since 2008 and I am tired off it so is it possible for me to lay for for whatever time period you agree on and come back in the future? I could of asked another admin and received it but I want you on my side since I have noticed you are close to Darknesshines a user who hates me so please one more chance? 109.145.226.245 (talk) 15:33, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

I know this place can make you crazy and it is easy to get pushed into one side of a POV to counteract what you think is POV from another. For some people, Wikipedia can chew you up and spit you out, emotionally speaking. For some, it is flatly an addiction. Maybe even for me a bit, but I can quit any time I want ;)

I'm all about second chances, for a couple of reasons. One, I know that many "POV pushers" are just as I describe above, good people that get pushed into one side of a POV argument and just decide to live there. It brings out the worst in them. Second, I've blocked you a dozen times or more and hundreds of other socks, and I know you can't "stop" sockpuppetry, you can only slow it down. If there is a chance to bring someone over from the sock side to the productive side, it is a double win for admin, plus a win for the editor. But as you note, it means you have to be able to demonstrate some discipline before the unblock, if you want me to believe you can show discipline after an unblock. I'm only one person, so keep that in mind. A standard offer would require community support in your case. I don't have the full history (and to be honest, I'm ignorant on the topic you edit in) but if put in genuine effort to quality for the WP:STANDARDOFFER, I'm willing to entertain supporting it. Even if it is granted, you would be under close supervisiion for another 6 or more months. It would be more productive that what you are doing now, however. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 15:44, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for those words they mean allot I hope we can arrange something because being a sock for 6 years is getting very tiring and emotionally draining with all the stress and anger I will be back this afternoon or tomorrow and I hope by then we can sort something out. Thank you dennis I can see why Darknessshines thinks so highly of you. 109.145.226.245 (talk) 15:56, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Hey dennis whats the procedure now? 109.145.226.245 (talk) 08:58, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

The procedure is to disappear for at least 6 months without any breach, longer is better to be honest. WP:STANDARDOFFER mentions that specifically, although we all just saw Russavia get denied after 1 year (his case was exceptional, I supported, but twice as many opposed). This is demonstrating you have the discipline to do what you say you will do. You then log in to your original account and use WP:UTRS, leave an email and request that I contact you. They will have to forward it to me, I don't have access. I will then email you, research to see if you have kept your part of the bargain, and if I feel comfortable doing so, make a proposal at WP:AN for the ban to be lifted. It would likely come with editing restrictions, hard ones at first, that could be lifted over the following year. Probably ban on the topics that got you in trouble to start with and 1RR on everything, but they would be lifted in time. If you had problems in those areas, they might never be lifted, that is the reality. Or they may simply refuse the allow you come back, and you have to wait 6 months to try again. I'm not going to lie, it isn't guaranteed and it is an uphill climb, however, if you will do what you need to do, I will do what I can. What you are doing now is pretty fruitless, so this would be better for all concerned, even if a bit painful for a while. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 13:20, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Ok got it I will be using this ip AND ONLY THIS IP I will be back to your talk page in six months and we can take it from there hopefully it will work out. So I make it 22nd december as my come back to email you then we can talk about the other dam long processes peace out. 109.145.226.245 (talk) 18:18, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

If you want to when you have time just take a brief glimpse into my edits they have mostly been small edits for example see also sections etc and removing certain things I perceived as point of view I rarely have added anything its mostly blanking stuff and when I email you in december I will give you a brief summary about how it all started back in August 2008. 109.145.226.245 (talk) 18:37, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Moved from the top of my page...

Mr. Brown, I assure you I take this seriously. I will endeavor to provide diffs as soon as possible. Meanwhile, if you have a moment to look at my talk page history, it is all right there. I'll return tonight for the diffs. --Paisan1 (talk) 20:34, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

WP:BTR#Finding users who misuse their user page for advertisement

Hi Dennis. Just to let you know that I asked for such a list as discussed. --Leyo 10:49, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

• I added a note and idea for a simple algorithm that won't be perfect, but is super easy and will catch over 80% of them. Simple things are more likely to get approved. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 13:09, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

YesAllWomen

Hello, a few days ago I raised concerns on ANI regarding repeat vandalism on page YesAllWomen, and you were helpful with board suggestion of WP:RFPP. We are continuing to have problem on talk:YesAllWomen, but now of a different nature. Is there a board that would be appropriate to gain feedback when an involved editor closes RfC without prior discussion or consensus to close it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:YesAllWomen#Reopening_old_RfC

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:YesAllWomen#Requests_for_comment.3B_Gender_breakdown

Additionally, is there dispute resolution available when dispute includes more than two editors? The editor who closed RfC is fresh off block for edit warring in another article, and their recent participation has been described by myself and at least one other editor as non-collaborative. Things have gotten kind of crazy on page, and if things continue along these lines, it seems we are going to need an RfC, just to open an RfC.--BoboMeowCat (talk) 16:59, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

• WP:DR covers our dispute resolution system, but generally speaking WP:DRN is for content disputes. As far as the RFCs, an involved person should NEVER close an RFC, and it can be reverted at the time. Any closer that is reverted should never revert their own close back, which would show they are too involved, for instance. I would have to look closer at these examples and will try later. Or maybe a talk page stalker will do me the favor. Closing can be done by non-admins, but they are held to the same standards as admin or they will be reverted. In some cases, we have topic banned serial closers who did so poorly. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 17:08, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

ANI on Ghana

Thanks for the note, I've replied on the ANI thread. -- Lord Roem ~ (talk) 22:28, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Dear Dennis

What do you think of Limiting case (philosophy of science) having three paragraphs now? Now other user is questioning the whole idea because he/she imagines that it is a "rare and strange" term. Thanks! --Damián A. Fernández Beanato (talk) 22:30, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

• All that is over my head, but I'm not sure it fixes the original concern. If it ends up deleted, you can ask for a copy in your user space and try building it up to an article, getting it reviewed by people smarter than me, those who know the subject. If they say it is an "article", I certainly won't stand in the way. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 22:35, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

So upon the article's creation you immediately nominated it for deletion and now you don't care much about it any more? If you hadn't nominated it in the first place, before I had time to write more than two lines of text, if think it would stand as a legitimate article now. :( --Damián A. Fernández Beanato (talk) 00:07, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

No, upon the article's creation, I saw that I was (and am) confident is a topic that is likely never to be more than a WP:DICDEF. The solution is to go to AFD, like I did. If you are still confident it could be brought up to article status, I told you that the solution is to take it to your own user space and develop it there. I don't think it will make it, but I'm open minded to the possibility. If other experienced editors that knew the subject better than I did said "yes, it is an article", I would move it back into mainspace myself. And we are also talking about transwiki'ing the article to Wiktionary.org as well. If I didn't care much about it, I would not have replied at the AFD or here. And I wouldn't have even sent it to AFD for that matter, so obviously I care. That doesn't mean I'm always going to give you the answer you want, however. You can always go to the AFD and add a comment: "I've expanded the article, please reconsider your vote" I'm not convinced it is enough, but I won't argue about it there and let others make up their own mind. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 00:13, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for your work. Sometimes I think that it is me who cares too much about this... lol. --Damián A. Fernández Beanato (talk) 00:17, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

I understand. That is why I said to put it in user space, or just start one in user space. I can help you with stuff like that. I can't help you with the content, waaaay above my head. My expertise is in more mundane topics, but I've been here for years and know the policies, tools and methods pretty well. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 00:20, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

I know how to do it. But thanks. --Damián A. Fernández Beanato (talk) 00:26, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

YGM

As the title implies, you have new e-mail from me. Please respond by e-mail, as I'm not going to disable Javascript a second time. "My master, Annatar the Great, bids thee ^welcome!" 01:18, 23 June 2014 (UTC)