User talk:Boghog/Archive 5

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Archive 4 Archive 5 Archive 6



>Why are you leaving me personal messages on my talk page about a CfD? If your comment is related to the CfD keep the discussion there. (talk) 20:42, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

This must be a case of mistaken identity. Please double check the history of your talk page. Thanks. Boghog (talk) 20:47, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
Sorry!! (talk) 19:00, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Talkback (Richwales) — WTF

Nuvola apps edu languages.svg
Hello, Boghog. You have new messages at Richwales's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

See also this comment which I left on Protonk's talk page. Richwales (talk · contribs) 17:27, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

your opinion on an AfD

Hi Boghog, could you please have a look at my AfD and comment (either way)? It has just been re-listed the 2nd time. thanks, MichaK (talk) 08:19, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for your input, MichaK (talk) 07:37, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:IUPHAR ligand

Ambox warning pn.svgTemplate:IUPHAR ligand has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. — This, that, and the other (talk) 09:46, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Online Ambassador interest

Hi! Thanks for signing the Online Ambassador interest list. We're gearing up for the next term right now, and the Wikipedia Ambassador Program will be supporting considerably more courses, with considerably more student activity... possibly upwards of 500 students who will need mentors.

If you're still interested, I encourage you to take a look at the Online Ambassador guidelines; the "mentorship process" describes roughly what will be expected of mentors in the coming term. If that's something you want to do, please apply!

You can find instructions for applying at WP:ONLINE. The main things we're looking for in Online Ambassadors are friendliness, regular activity (since mentorship is a commitment that spans several months), and the ability to give detailed, substantive feedback on articles (both short new articles, and longer, more mature ones). If you have any questions, please let me know.

I hope to hear from you soon.--Sage Ross - Online Facilitator, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 20:29, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Hey! Did you get my email from a few weeks ago welcoming you to the Wikipedia Ambassador Program? I never heard back from you.--Sage Ross - Online Facilitator, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 01:12, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia Ambassador Program Newsletter: 28 January 2011


This is the first issue of the Wikipedia Ambassador Program newsletter. Please read it! It has important information about the the current wave of classes, instructions and advice, and other news about the ambassador program.

Delivered by EdwardsBot (talk) 00:31, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Pubmed referencing

Hi! I've noticed that you fixed my links to Pubmed articles, making them standard and nice-looking. Could you please help me to understand, what is the best way to do it? Is it some kind of a special add-on program? I'll reference Pubmed in the future for sure, and I'd like to it properly =) Khakhalin (talk) 18:22, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your contributions! I have been using User:Diberri's Wikipedia template filling tool (instructions). Given a PubMed ID, one can quickly produce a full citation that can be copied and pasted into a Wikipedia article. If you want to include the citation "in-line", be sure that the "add ref tag" option of the template tool is turned on. If you want to include a reference in the further reading section, the "add ref tag" option should be left off. Cheers. Boghog (talk) 20:03, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
Oh, thank you! That's really cool =) Khakhalin (talk) 03:35, 3 February 2011 (UTC)


WikiprojectBarnstar.png The WikiProject Barnstar
For your open, friendly, and helpful response to the comments at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Molecular and Cellular Biology#Squint_talk, and for your subsequent diligent efforts to resolve the concerns presented by the user. People like you make WikiProjects a delight to work with, and help us focus on solving the problem, rather than assigning the blame. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:20, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
Thanks! And thank you for your pro-active efforts to keep the rest of us on our toes! We sometimes get too wound-up in our specialties and it is great to have someone reinforce where we need to improve. Boghog (talk) 22:44, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia Ambassador Program Newsletter: 13 February 2011


This is the second issue of the Wikipedia Ambassador Program Newsletter, with details about what's going on right now and where help is needed.

  • Userboxes and profiles - Add an ambassador userbox to your page, and make sure you've added your mentor profile!
  • Be a coordinating ambassador - Pick and class and make sure no students fall through the cracks.
  • New screencasts - Short videos on watchlists and a number of other topics may be useful to students.
  • Updates from Campus Ambassadors - Ambassadors are starting to report on classroom experiences, both on-wiki and on the Google Group.
  • Other news - There's a new on-wiki application for being an Online Ambassador, and Editing Friday #2 is today!
  • Things you can do - This is just a sample; if you're eager for something to do, there's plenty more.

Delivered by EdwardsBot (talk) 18:21, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you so much for what you're doing on Pain, and for your calm, constructive rationality. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 11:01, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your support. Reformatting the citations is a bit tedious, but I should be able finish this within a few days. Cheers. Boghog (talk) 12:53, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Beta clamp

A) I just did that edit I'd mentioned - turned out to be many - cleaned it right up - 'Beta clamp: sandbox:", and B) is there an elucidation [for me] of 'Boghog'? Many thanks! ~ Betaclamp (talk) 08:03, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

please add your profile to the Online Ambassadors mentors page

Hi Boghog!

If you're still interested in being a mentor this term, please add your profile to Wikipedia:Online Ambassadors/Mentors. If you have any questions about the ambassador role or what you're interested in doing as an Online Ambassador (whether mentoring, pitching in in other ways, or something else), please let me know.--Sage Ross - Online Facilitator, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 17:36, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

OK, I have now added my profile. Cheers. Boghog (talk) 19:17, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
Thanks!--Sage Ross - Online Facilitator, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 19:35, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Mentoring students: be sure to check in on them

This message is going out to all of the Online Ambassadors who are, or will be, serving as mentors this term.

Hi there! This is just a friendly reminder to check in on what your mentees are doing. If they've started making edits, take a look and help them out or do some example fixes for them, if they need it. And if they are doing good, let them know it!

If you aren't mentoring anyone yet, it looks like you will be soon; at least one large class is asking us to assign mentors for them, and students in a number of others haven't yet gotten to asking ambassadors to be their mentors, but may soon. --Sage Ross - Online Facilitator, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 20:05, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

General comment on Further Reading on science pages like STARD8, etc.

You prolly already are aware of this algorithm flaw, but in case not, I thought I'd mention that the Further Reading lists I see on many science pages many times contain publications that do not provide meaningful information with the wiki page.

For instance, on the STARD8 page, one reference is the DNA sequence of chromosome X. Well, true, STARD8 is there, but this does not increase any understanding of the protein. Moreover, an existing reference on the page already cites its localization to that chromosome.

STARD13 has a Further Reading article (Strausberg RL, Feingold EA, Grouse LH, et al. (2003)) that is entirely about a new way to generate cDNAs vs actually having anything to do with STARD13.

Is the Further Reading usually added for readers to supplement Stub class articles which either no one has fleshed out yet or there is still too little scientific info on? Skingski (talk) 21:49, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi. I agree that these large scale sequencing citations are not very informative so I have gone ahead deleted these from the STARD8 and STARD13 articles. I used the GeneWikiGenerator server to generate these further reading sections and I usually prune these list manually afterwards. But some time I get lazy. Of course, if you see any more like this, please go ahead delete them yourself. Cheers. Boghog (talk) 09:15, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Hey, I'm the definition of lazy. You can't outlazy me! ;) Thanks for the insight and I'll look for and resolve such issues in the future. Thanks! Skingski (talk) 16:26, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
I have made some of these additonal reading sections manually for microRNA pages. I found that simply searching for the gene name only in the title of the paper gave a good list. I expect that your procedure is more sophisticated than that though :) Alexbateman (talk) 10:20, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

groups of students in need of mentors

Hey Boghog. One of the classes working with the Wikipedia Ambassador Program, Jonathan Obar's Media and Telecommunication Policy, is working in small groups and would like us to assign a mentor to each group (rather than having students request the mentors they'd like, as other classes are doing).

I invite you to sign on as the mentor for one or more groups, especially if any of the topics catch your interest. To sign up, go to the course page and add yourself as "Mentor: you" in the section for that group. They students and/or professor or campus ambassadors should be cleaning things up soon to list all the usernames for each group and add a few more groups. Once you know who the students are in the group, you can leave them each a quick introduction to let them know you'll be mentoring their group.

Thanks!--Sage Ross - Online Facilitator, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 19:07, 22 February 2011 (UTC)


Hi Boghog. Just a quick reply to the question in your edit summary. I put the image under hidden text as at the time it was a redlink, but the uploader expressed concern over the deletion. So, no I personally have no reason to doubt User talk:Spitfire ch‎. By the way (as I see you are a mentor and have been around for a while) would you be able to keep an eye on the file. I offered to help, but my experience, especially around images is low. I am guessing an email would clear it up?

Nevermind, I see you have it under control. AIRcorn (talk) 10:18, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

No problem. It appears the origin of the confusion is that Commons user Danielcland is listed as the uploader of the graphics file while Spitfire ch‎ is listed as its creator. This is really strange since the file was first inserted into the Septins article on 11 December 2006 while the upload date is listed as 29 April 2008. What may have happened is that the file was moved from en.wikipedia to Commons obscuring both the creation date and creator. Furthermore Danielcland may be the same person as Spitfire ch‎. I will ask Spitfire ch‎ to clarify the ownership of the graphic on the File:S cerevisiae septins.jpg page. Cheers. Boghog (talk) 11:01, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
Hi, thank you very much, both of you, for looking into it, offering help and restoring the file, that is very kind! To shed some light on this incident: I originally created the picture and uploaded it to Someone, I guess Danielcland (who is not the same person as I) then copied it to Commons (which is fine with me). Afterward, it was deleted from Wikipedia and the link in the septins article redirected to Commons. This chain of events apparently lead to some confusion and, ultimately, to the deletion of the file. Spitfire ch (talk) 19:27, 27 February 2011 (UTC)


Thank you for the excellent job you've done on converting Pain to vcite. (It looks like you've finished.) I really appreciate it. You found a resolution to a conflict and worked diligently to implement it. You're gold. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 18:21, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your kind words. I am more or less done. There are some older book citations that I skipped. These books do not appear to have ISBNs and therefore the automatic template filling tool that I used to format the citations cannot be used. These would need to be reformatted manually which is a lot of work. I may get around to tackling these some time in the future. Cheers. Boghog (talk) 20:17, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Online Ambassador Program

Please take a look at this project page and see if you can be a mentor to one of the many Areas of Study. If you can, please put your name in the "Online Mentor" area of the Area of Study of your choice and then contact the students you will be working with. As the Coordinating Online Ambassador for this project, please let me know if I can be of assistance. Take Care...NeutralhomerTalk • 04:31, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

gene wiki updates

Dear Boghog, Thanks for your many contributions to the gene wiki articles! I set up a twitter feed that summarizes edits to the gene wiki pages and am curious what you think of it? Is it useful to you? I'm very much open to suggestions for alterations if you have any ideas. See twitter/GeneWikiPulse . Thanks again for making so many great contributions! Benjamin Good (talk) 23:46, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi Benjamin. Interesting concept. I must admit that I am a dinosaur when it comes to social networking. I am not exactly sure how I might use it since I am still trying to get my head around twitter. But I am intrigued by some of the annotation that is being added to the edits. The most interesting aspect (as you pointed out in your post) is the possibility to learn something about the contributors. In any case, I think I need more time to think about the implications. And thank you for your contributions. It is great to see the recent increased level of contributions to the Gene Wiki. Cheers. Boghog (talk) 21:50, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
My hope for active contributors like yourself is that the feed would provide one more way to stay aware of whats happening to the gene pages as a whole. I suppose its about the same as the recent changes feed. By going through twitter I hope the information can get out to more people and perhaps become more convenient to access. I also hope that the processing we are doing might make the individual updates slightly more useful. Anyway, those are the hopes, lets see how it works ;). BTW this is the first part of a campaign to increase engagement with the gene wiki that I am going to be leading. If you have any ideas, please let me know! — Preceding unsigned comment added by I9606 (talkcontribs) 23:25, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for letting me know more about the motivation behind the GeneWikiPulse. I am enthusiastically in favor of anything that might increase contributions to the gene wiki. Off the top of my head, the following suggestions come to mind:
  • Reach out to specialists (see for example Time to underpin Wikipedia wisdom) stressing that Gene Wiki articles about a particular gene are frequently the first hit returned by a Google search. While the Gene Wiki may not be the most authoritative site, it strength I think is to provide a quick overview of a particular gene/protein hyperlinked to relevant background articles. Hence I think it is under appreciated to what extent these articles are read by specialists in related disciplines.
  • If we link out to other web sites, make sure that those web sites do the courtesy of linking back to the Gene Wiki (for example IUPHAR, which has partially but not completely done this. That reminds me that I need to followup with them.).
  • Somehow highlight the "best of the Gene Wiki". I wish there were more, but at least a few Gene Wiki articles have achieved WP:GA status. We need to get more of these articles up to GA status and somehow advertise the ones that have made it. The PDB has the molecule of the month. Could we somehow highlight a gene of the month? Boghog (talk) 21:56, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Replacing PDBsum by PDB

That is what I think: [1]. I will be back in a week and would be happy to discuss this in more detail. Thanks, Hodja Nasreddin (talk) 23:28, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

I think we now agreed about everything at template talk page. Sorry, I could not look carefully before because I was on a meeting. Thank you and Andreas for improving this template! Hodja Nasreddin (talk) 22:59, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Marking articles students are working on

Howdy, Online Ambassador!

This is a quick message to all the ambassadors about marking and tracking which articles students are working on. For the classes working with the ambassador program, please look over any articles being worked on by students (in particular, any ones you are mentoring, but others who don't have mentors as well) and do these things:

  1. Add {{WAP assignment | term = Spring 2011 }} to the articles' talk pages. (The other parameters of the {{WAP assignment}} template are helpful, so please add them as well, but the term = Spring 2011 one is most important.)
  2. If the article is related to United States public policy, make sure the article the WikiProject banner is on the talk page: {{WikiProject United States Public Policy}}
  3. Add Category:Article Feedback Pilot (a hidden category) to the article itself. The second phase of the Article Feedback Tool project has started, and this time we're trying to include all of the articles students are working on. Please test out the Article Feedback Tool, as well. The new version just deployed, so any bug reports or feedback will be appreciated by the tech team working on it.

And of course, don't forget to check in on the students, give them constructive feedback, praise them for positive contributions, award them {{The WikiPen}} if they are doing excellent work, and so on. And if you haven't done so, make sure any students you are mentoring are listed on your mentor profile.

Thanks! --Sage Ross - Online Facilitator, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 18:10, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

em dashes

Rubredoxin—NAD(P)(+) reductase has one more set of parentheses than Ferredoxin—NADP(+) reductase. Could you check if one is an error? (Also NADPH—hemoprotein reductase, NADPH—cytochrome-c2 reductase.) — kwami (talk) 06:59, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Long-chain-fatty-acyl—CoA synthetase: acyl or acid? Synonyms?

Methylenetetrahydrofolate—tRNA-(uracil-5-)-methyltransferase: should that last hyphen be there?

Glucose—1-phosphate uridylyltransferase may have been an error: no em dash?

Nother merge at ubiquinol-cytochrome-c reductase, plus ones at galactose—1-phosphate uridylyltransferase & lecithin—cholesterol acyltransferase where I just guessed at the em dash.

Okay, in all the remaining links (which are 134, down from 200+), it's the last hyphen before the last space that's the em dash. A bot could do that. Though some are redirects, and I don't know about the names they redirect to.

[Okay, now the only hyphen.] — kwami (talk) 07:18, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Again, thanks for your help. I will take care of the remaining issues that you have raised above later in the day when I have more time. Cheers. Boghog (talk) 08:03, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Sure thing. All moves (from that sandbox) finished.

I see you merged 2',3'-cyclic-nucleotide 3'-phosphodiesterase to the form w the capital Cyclic. Yet the box is still l.c. Shouldn't it have been the other way around? (If it's just a problem of the page histories, I can shuffle them around.)

BTW, I have not copy edited the articles to match their new titles. — kwami (talk) 08:25, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

plastoquinol-plastocyanin reductase rd's to plastocyanin, but plastoquinol—plastocyanin reductase rd's to cytochrome b6f complex.

Template - Chromosomal abnormalities ‎

Boggy, please look at Template talk:Chromosomal abnormalities - I'm not sure whether it needs expansion by another example of abnormality. Cheers, --CopperKettle 21:29, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Request to mentor a small group of students

Hi Boghog! I'm trying to find mentors for each of the groups in the Energy Economics and Policy course. Would you be willing to mentor this group? If so, please sign up on the course page and introduce yourself to the students in the group. If not, let me know so I can find someone else. Thanks!--Sage Ross - Online Facilitator, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 14:43, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Human chorionic gonadotropin

Thanks for taking the time in correcting my errors in the reference formatting, I didn't realize that that I added a reference that was already there.7mike5000 (talk) 17:45, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

No problem. The reference that was already there was a bit mangled so I also missed it in my first go around. Cheers. Boghog (talk) 17:55, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

It looks Beautiful :

I'm speechless. ~ Betaclamp (talk) 05:32, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Mentor Request

Hi Boghog

I am working on producing a Wiki page on Mercury Regulation for an Environmental Economics and Policy course at Indiana University and I was wondering if you would like to be my mentor. Thanks!

Ejking311 (talk) 18:34, 27 February 2011 (UTC)Ejking311 (Lizzie)

Hi Lizzie. I would be delighted to act as a mentor. After a quick check, I see there are sections of existing articles on Mercury Regulation here and here which might give you some ideas. The topic is broad enough that I think it could easily justify its own article. I would suggest starting the article in your sandbox and when it is sufficiently mature, move it to user article namespace. One quick hint concerning formatting citations that could save you a lot of time can be found above. Of course, if you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask. That is what I am here for. I look foward to working with you. Cheers. Boghog (talk) 21:19, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
Hi Boghog. I was wondering if you could help me with my page's focus. My group members and I came up with three different approaches we could take:
  1. General focus on Mercury Regulation
    1. Domestic level (broad with different agencies and policies)
    2. International
  2. Focus on Mercury Regulation in specific Agency (Ex- EPA regulation on Mercury)
    1. Clean Air Act
    2. Clean Water Act
    3. Safewater Drinking Act
  3. Specific focus on Act or Regulation Pertaining to Mercury
    1. Ex- EPA's CAA on Mercury Regulation
We thought that maybe we should write about a more precise topic be we also thought that since there is very little on Mercury policy, that we should try to be more broad. We wanted to consult with you since you probably know how focused Wikipedia articles usually are. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your help! Ejking311 (talk) 18:39, 4 March 2011 (UTC)Ejking311
Hi Lizzie. I think any of the above three alternatives would work, however given the constraints of time that you have to work on this, some alternatives may be more practical than others. Currently there are no articles specifically about mercury regulation and the en.wikipedia has an international audience which would argue in favor alternative #1. On the other hand, I would guess this type of article would be very difficult to research and write because the large number of regulations that have been implemented in different countries around the world. Alternative #3 might be too narrow. Alternative #2 (e.g., EPA mercury regulations) may be a good compromise or possibly alternative #1.1 (US Federal mercury regulations, EPA + FDA + ?), narrow enough so that the article will be well focused but broad enough so that you should have no trouble finding enough material to write about. Boghog (talk) 12:02, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
Hi Boghog. Thanks so much, this helps a lot! We'll keep you updated on our progress and let you know if we have any questions.

Ejking311 (talk) 03:55, 7 March 2011 (UTC)Ejking311

Hi Boghog. I've been thinking about changing my outline to reflect different categories of Mercury Regulation (ie - Direct Effects (use and release) and Indirect Effects (Environmental Standards)). I like this new approach but I'm worried that it may not be easy for a reader to get to laws such as the "Mercury Export Ban Act of 2008". Do you think I should try to work with this new outline or stay with the old one that focuses more on the individual regulations as opposed to grouping them? My page reflects some of these changes but I haven't deleted anything so I apologize if it is hard to read currently. Also, I've found some wonderful pdfs of tables on the web and I'd love to use them but I seem to recall that it can kind of be an ordeal to upload pictures on wikipedia. Do you think I could just redo the table in wikipedia and cite the source? Let me know what you think about this as well. As always, thanks for your help! Ejking311 (talk) 22:47, 5 April 2011 (UTC)ejking311

Nice work! It look like your article is coming along nicely. I think your new outline is workable and make a lot of sense. Concerning inserting pds into your document, there may be some copyright concerns. Unless the pdfs are in the public domain, you probably will not be able to use them directly. It is some work, but you will probably have to reproduce them using WP:TABLE templates. If you can provide me a link to the pdfs, I could make more specific suggestions as to how best to include this material in your article. I have some specific comments concerning the format, etc that I will make on the User_talk:Ejking311/Mercury_Regulation page. Cheers. Boghog (talk) 06:40, 7 April 2011 (UTC)


Good work so far on DHSA. Please add appropriate categories to the article. I added two templates to the talk page. WP:ARS member --DThomsen8 (talk) 17:15, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your encouragement. Per your suggestion, I have added one highly relevant category. Unfortunately I cannot find any additional categories that are as appropriate. Boghog (talk) 18:07, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Histidine Kinase reference... DOIs versus URLs

I noticed that you like to strip URLs in references if a DOI is supplied. I agree there can be justification for that but you shouldn't be so quick to do it automatically. In the particular reference I supplied, the URL points to a full text, open-access journal. It is easier for a wikipedia reader to simply click on the link and be taken to the article than to make extra effort to search for the article by DOI... which in most instances leads to articles that are behind subscription paywalls. Not everyone is in a university with a massive e-journal subscription list, so as a result they become conditioned to NOT doing further searching. Moreover, DOIs frequently lead to publishers' sites that only post the *abstract* of an article, instead of the full text... and many people are turned off by this, further leading to a disincentive for searching DOIs.

In this wikipedia article, some of the DOIs lead to open-access journal articles, but some don't (e.g., the Annu Rev Genetics reference). The reference I supplied has a URL for a full-text article that's not hidden behind a paywall, and it's a primary review article that covers the entire content of this wikipedia article in better detail, so I think you'd agree that it's best with the URL back in.

If you like to clean things up by stripping away URLs (which can change) in favor of DOIs (which are not supposed to change), I see the rationale. But consider modifying your practice so you don't do it automatically. While the DOI in this reference does in fact lead to the full-text, open-access article, again, that is atypical and I assure you that many people (e.g., at home, in public libraries, in high schools) don't bother with DOIs because they've been repeatedly burned by links to things behind paywalls, so they will appreciate a direct URL link to the article.

Whatever you decide to do in the future, I suggest you leave this reference alone (with URL intact) for the reasons stated. That said, I realized I made a typo in the URL... adding a period and digit... the correct URL (which you can confirm yourself) is:

Lapabc (talk) 15:33, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

I certainly agree that there are special cases where including both the URL and DOI is appropriate. In this particular case however both the URL and the doi:10.1186/gb-2002-3-10-reviews3013 lead to exactly the same open source full access text. On the other hand, I have no strong objection to including both. Cheers. Boghog (talk) 19:00, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Combining templates

Hey Boghog. You seem to be very good with these templates. Wondering if you could combine {{Infobox drug}}, {{Drugbox}}, and {{Chembox}}? Thanks. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 23:35, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Considering that these mergers involve two wiki projects, my suggestion is that we do this step wise: first merge {{Infobox drug}} into {{Drugbox}} and make sure that everyone within the pharma project is happy with the content and layout and second, approach the chemistry project to request that {{Drugbox}} be merged into the {{Chembox}}. I am not an expert with infobox syntax, but I will see what I can do about adding the links from {{Infobox drug}} into {{Drugbox}}. Boghog (talk) 06:39, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
Agree completely. Let me know when you are done and I will begin adding the clinical data to medication articles.--Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 07:52, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

New version of PBB

Howdy Boghog, I'm working on a new version of the Protein Box Bot for Gene Wiki articles. As I understand it from Andrew, the old version of the bot hasn't been running in some time, and as pages are edited, the PBB controls and templates are generally removed (makes sense).
I imagine that the new bot's role would be more suited to updating small details easily pulled from existing databases, like EC numbers and homologene IDs, so that higher-contributing editors (like you) can spend more time editing the text of the articles and less time on the minutiae. I've read some discussions relating to the bot's updating of the summary text on various talk pages, so I think the new version will be restricted updating the sidebar GNF_Protein_box template and the information it contains (and, of course, subject to any control flags). In any case, I was hoping to get your input as I went forward. Is there anything you would want to ensure for this version particularly, or any behaviors to include?
Pleiotrope (talk) 00:30, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Hi Pleiotrope. I am delighted to hear that you are working on a new version of the PBB. I think the most important short term goal is to update the data in transcluded {{GNF Protein box}} templates. A surprisingly high amount of data, especially for mouse, is missing. Also the UniProt fields are frequently empty. I think that merely reflects that some of the genes were not yet fully annotated in the Entrez database when PBB first created the these articles. Since then, a lot of this missing data has been added to Entrez and it would be nice to also update the Gene Wiki articles. Also as you mention, it would be good to remove the PBB controls and templates, as these will probably never be used and they just complicate things for human editors. Beyond that, as you are probably aware, Andrew has created an ideas page. Perhaps we should first go through that and prioritize those ideas. In addition, I have a few other ideas, like adding a "disease linkage" section to the infobox. Again, I think it is great that you are working on reviving the PBB so the Gene Wiki pages can be maintained. Cheers. Boghog (talk) 06:23, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
Hello again! The prototype bot made its first edit today on Template:PBB/410, the box transcluded on Arylsulfatase A. You can see the updates in the diffs for the edit- expanded the gene ontologies, the gene locations, etc. It also obeys the {{nobots}} flag, something I saw requested on the ideas page. We're having a code review on Monday, but in the meantime I thought I'd just run through the current workflow of the bot and see what you think. (I won't be updating any other templates besides the one on my sandbox for a while)
  • login to wikipedia
  • pull the info from an external database (
  • pull the info from an existing protein box, check for nobots flag and abort if found
  • compare both sets of data and overwrite the info from wikipedia if the external db has either more data or equal, but different, data
  • leave any fields unaltered for which the external db either has less data or no data
  • perform verification on new set of data to make sure it makes sense
  • if verification succeeds, upload the content back to wikipedia
I'm reading through a number of the ideas on the ideas page and think they should be fairly doable, and I agree that the main role of the bot should be to update those {{GNF Protein box}} templates. I'm not coding in any other capabilities just yet. Thoughts? Pleiotrope (talk) 01:37, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
Great! Your proposed workflow sounds reasonable.
I did notice one minor error that I corrected in this edit. The B7XD04 "TrEMBL" UniProt entry is unreviewed whereas P15289 "Swiss-Prot" is reviewed. Not all human proteins have been assigned a reviewed UniProt entry, but for the ones that do, the reviewed entry should always be used in preference to any unreviewed entry. In the case of Arylsulfatase A, returns both ("uniprot": {"Swiss-Prot": "P15289", "TrEMBL": "B7XD04"}).
I also agree that before worrying about adding additional capabilities, it is better to concentrate on updating the existing templates. Thinking ahead however, removed unused PBB templates and controls (for example diff) as discussed here should be a fairly straight forward task. I also think this task would be especially useful since it would make these articles less intimidating for new contributors. Boghog (talk) 10:29, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

NFkB in neurons

Hi Boghog, thanks for the assistance on the section I altered yesterday. Please let me know if there is anything else you think I can do to improve that section. Thanks! Aventre3 (talk) 13:07, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia Ambassador Program Newsletter: 22 April 2011


This is the fourth issue of the Wikipedia Ambassador Program Newsletter, with details about what's going on right now and where help is needed.

Delivered by EdwardsBot (talk) 16:31, 22 April 2011 (UTC)


This is an automated message from VWBot. I have performed a search with the contents of KIAA0895, and it appears to be very similar to another Wikipedia page: KIAA0895L. It is possible that you have accidentally duplicated contents, or made an error while creating the page— you might want to look at the pages and see if that is the case. If you are intentionally trying to rename an article, please see Help:Moving a page for instructions on how to do this without copying and pasting. If you are trying to move or copy content from one article to a different one, please see Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia and be sure you have acknowledged the duplication of material in an edit summary to preserve attribution history.

It is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article. VWBot (talk) 05:18, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Moonlighting protein

Greetings, Boghog. I've noticed that Swmmr1928 (talk · contribs) has been having difficulties at Moonlighting protein, seemingly due to a lack of familiarity with Wikipedia norms and conventions. I wonder if I could trouble you to help accommodate their alterations in a revised form, or if that is not in the article's interest, explain to them in a bit more depth why? They seem a little frustrated with the situation at present, and could use some help from us ambassadors. Regards, Skomorokh 17:03, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Absolutely! I am currently working on it. Cheers. Boghog (talk) 17:06, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Original research

April 30, 2011

Hi Boghog. Thanks for your comments. I re-read what are to be included in Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not the place for New Discoveries. ThanksVRodrig110 (talk) 17:28, 30 April 2011 (UTC)


Hi Boghog. Thanks for reformatting my reference on the Arginine vasopressin page; I didn't realize that I had cited the earlier EPub. With regards to the reference that was originally present there, I removed it simply because the newer reference was more current and was unequivocal about the effect of AngII on AVP secretion. I don't want to make a big deal out of it, but I don't see the point of including the older reference as well. Please let me know what your thoughts on this are. Thanks, Techfiend (talk) 06:31, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Hi Techfiend. Thank you for the explanation and thank you for your contributions to the Arginine vasopressin article. I am always a little suspicious when I see one reference replace by another. After more careful inspection, I now see that your reference is more appropriate so I have no objections to replacing it. Cheers. Boghog (talk) 19:56, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Please help assess articles for Public Policy Initiative research

Hi Boghog/Archive 5,

Your work as an Online Ambassador is making a big contribution to Wikipedia. Right now, we're trying to measure just how much student work improves the quality of Wikipedia. If you'd like contribute to this research and get a firsthand look at the quality improvement that is happening through the project, please sign up to assess articles. Assessment is happening now, just use the quantitative metric and start assessing! Your help would be hugely appreciated!

Thank you, ARoth (Public Policy Initiative) (talk) 17:10, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Moonlighting Protein

Thankyou for your Great Edits!

And thank you for your continued contributions.

I think according to this, we still need an In-text attribution for the table in this section.

I have reinserted the In-text attribution for now. From a copyright standpoint, It is questionable whether this table can be included at all. It was originally published in PNAS in 1981 which means the author holds the copyright. On the other hand, it has been extensively modified from the original work. Finally, while the table is interesting, it is not clear to me how this table directly relates to the topic of moonlighting. It might be more appropriate for another article.
Many of the bio-molecular structures are made of proteins that serve different roles. For example, actin/myosin have like four roles. What do you think about removing all rows that are not moonlighting proteins and adding a column for other functions.Swmmr1928 talk 10:43, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

I added the align right tags to the tables in the Moonlighting protein article per these requests. However, the requests are from inexperienced users and maybe that is why you reverted the edit/did not discuss. Do you agree that the tables disrupt the flow when they are aligned in the center?

I think this is more aesthetic issue. While I think it is appropriate to use right alignment for narrow tables, these particular tables contain a lot of information. If the browser window width is wide enough, right alignment might look OK, but if the browser window is narrow, some of the surrounding text becomes very cramped and IMHO doesn't look very nice.

Also, can you explain why most proteins are not enzymes? Do you have numbers to back your claim? I am a bit confused after searching. Swmmr1928 talk 23:51, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

According to geneontology, using the search term "GO:0003824 : catalytic activity" (i.e., enzyme) gives 152416 gene product hits out of a total of 477775 gene products or 32%. Restricting to homo sapiens, the corresponding numbers are (5343/18271) X 100 = 29%. So roughly 1/3 of proteins are enzymes. Given the enormous number of functions protein have, this is a remarkably high percentage, but it is still less than 50%. Boghog (talk) 06:44, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
Now I understand. The second most common function of proteins would be much much less common than catalytic activity. Maybe in the article, we can say about a third of known proteins are known to catalyze. Swmmr1928 talk 10:34, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
I apologize for not responding to this sooner, but I was trying to find a reliable source that would support these figures. So far I have not found any, but I am still looking. I suppose we could refer to the geneontology database, but this is bordering on original research. It would be much cleaner to support this statement with a citation to a journal article that discusses this. Boghog (talk) 05:56, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Is there anything wrong with quoting from a journal article's abstract?Swmmr1928 talk 01:59, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

No, there is nothing wrong as long as you provide in-text attribution and the quotation is not excessively long. This requirement is identical to text taken from the body of a journal article. Both are copyrighted. For a good discussion, see Why you can't copy abstracts into Wikipedia. Boghog (talk) 05:56, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Protein box bot?

Thank you for your friendly form letter of welcome to WikiProject_Molecular_and_Cellular_Biology.

I noticed a protein-box-bot template on another protein, and tried adding one on the same pattern to KLF14. It doesn't work, unsurprisingly. Is the bot still active, and if so how do I get it to give me a box? --Dan Wylie-Sears 2 (talk) 23:00, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for creating the KLF14 page! Concerning the protein template, you can either create your own or Request a gene. The former is a little buggy and you may need to fill in some missing data, but it does work. I now see Avilella (talk · contribs) had requested a template for this gene and I was slow in responding. Cheers. Boghog (talk) 04:47, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
Actually, Avilella started the KLF14 page, but as an itty-bitty stub. If I request a page, do you have it further automated, or would you just be doing the same thing as if I create it myself? --Dan Wylie-Sears 2 (talk) 22:15, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
If you requested the page, I would be doing essentially the same thing as you. Either way would be fine with me. I am not directly affiliated with theGenomics Institute of the Novartis Research Foundation, so I don't have any control over the BioGPS. I have put in a request to fix some of the bugs, so hopefully the maintainers can get around to fixing them. Boghog (talk) 03:26, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia Ambassador sweatshirt

Hi! This is the last call for signing on for a Wikipedia Ambassador hooded sweatshirt (in case you missed the earlier message in one of the program newsletters about it). If you would like one, please email me with your name, mailing address, and (US) sweatshirt size. We have a limited number left, so it will be first-come, first-served. (If more than one size would work for you, note that as well.)

Cheers, Sage Ross - Online Facilitator, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 19:40, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Please take the Wikipedia Ambassador Program survey

Hi Ambassador,

We are at a pivotal point in the development of the Wikipedia Ambassador Program. Your feedback will help shape the program and role of Ambassadors in the future. Please take this 10 minute survey to help inform and improve the Wikipedia Ambassadors.

WMF will de-identify results and make them available to you. According to KwikSurveys' privacy policy: "Data and email addresses will not be sold, rented, leased or disclosed to 3rd parties." This link takes you to the online survey:

Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments, Thank You!

Amy Roth (Research Analyst, Public Policy Initiative) (talk) 20:36, 24 May 2011 (UTC)


Is no merge of these two articles necessary?

Swmmr1928 talk 01:13, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

As mentioned here, the two articles were already merged in this edit and this edit. I still think we can get this article promoted to GA status, but it will take some more work. Cheers. Boghog (talk) 06:40, 28 May 2011 (UTC)


Wondering if you could implement a number of improvements to this infobox as suggested here Template_talk:Interventions_infobox I just cannot get it to work. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 23:45, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Responded here. Cheers. Boghog (talk) 14:10, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Template:Diagnostic infobox

I have recently created the above infobox which I have used here at Complete blood count. Still not working perfectly. Wondering if you could help fix a few things mentioned here Template_talk:Diagnostic_infobox#Things_that_need_fixing? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 09:24, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for helping out with the infobox. --Arcadian (talk) 00:31, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
What do you think about adding LOINC? Codes are available at, and can be linked like this: . --Arcadian (talk) 00:39, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
LOINC looks useful so I went ahead and added it. Thanks for the suggestion. Boghog (talk) 13:15, 4 June 2011 (UTC)


Are we able to move forwards with the changes to the drugbox? I have no strong feelings about transclusion but it would be nice to get the clinical data added. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 09:30, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

And finally could you give me a hand putting together this template here Template talk:Drugclassbox Thanks Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 09:54, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
MedicineBarnstar.png The Medicine Barnstar
For the incredible work you have done on the medical templates. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 09:18, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
Thanks! It was not a huge effort, but nevertheless, I do appreciate the barnstar. Cheers. Boghog (talk) 13:19, 4 June 2011 (UTC)


Hey Boghog Have brought your changes to the drugbox live. I think I have it set up correct but wondering if you could double check. Will work on updating the top 20 most common prescriptions with the new info. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 07:14, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

NF, SPRED and SPRY mutations

Hi Boghog,

Thanks for fleshing out SPRED3 and SPRED1.

I am particularly interested in NF1 and NF1-like syndromes and the mutations leading to them. Genes related to this are Neurofibromin 1, SPRED1, SPRED2, SPRED3, SPRY1, SPRY2, SPRY3 and SPRY4. Neurofibromin 1 has had thousands of distinct observed mutations of various types.

I am not a professional in this area. I am trying to understand the condition for personal reasons. I have noticed that there seems to be a split among professionals working in the area:

  • On the one hand you have WikiGenes and WikiPathways and Bioinformatic Harvester and Genetics Home Reference, which are completely open to the public. There does not appear to be a similar WikiMutations project.
  • On the other hand you have human gene mutation database which is a commercially-sponsored project with limited academic access (2 and a half year hold on new mutations) and no general public ("layperson") access. Individual academic labs working in the area tend to keep their own private stashes of observed mutations.

With respect to NF1-related genes, I would like to make publicly available on Wikipedia the known mutations to the extent that they are in public domain. Do you support the idea of having more systematic inclusion of detailed observed gene mutation data on Wikipedia, and if so, what is the best way to go about it?

Thanks, Erxnmedia (talk) 14:01, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Hi Erxnmedia. Thanks your great contributions to the SPRED1 and SPRED3 articles! Also thanks for the external links. They look like valuable sources that would be useful to link to. As far as including mutation data in Wikipedia, I think this really depends on the quantity of the data and what external data has already been compiled. If it is a notable mutation with significant clinical consequences, then I would strongly encourage you to add these directly to the article as prose. If there are a large number of documented mutations, perhaps adding a table incorporating this data would be appropriate. If there are already external sources that have compiled and are maintaining the data, linking to those sources would be appropriate. If you are unsure, just do a data dump to the talk page of the relevant article and we can discuss how to best incorporate the data directly into the article. I can help you with formatting, citations, etc. Finally, if you are not already aware of OMIM, please check out 609291 609293. Cheers. Boghog (talk) 18:26, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Hi Boghog,

That's great, I didn't known OMIM, and those pages drill right down to the nucleotide sequence for mutations which is great.

I have been working in general on Neurofibromatosis-related pages. This condition occurs about 1:3500 births and has many complications but is relatively unknown outside of those affected and the relatively small group of people that do research on it. Researchers on Neurofibroma are divided into mouse-model in-vitro cure researchers who are PhDs in biology and MDs doing human trials of specific drugs. Because there are thousands of possible mutations to Neurofibromin 1, the outcome of the disease is highly variable, and involves many of the body's systems. One of the main drivers of NF research is the Children's Tumor Foundation (CTF).

Because of the multiplicity of negative outcomes I was hoping that there would be a gene therapy cure. I communicated with a couple of leaders in the field regarding gene therapy specifically, and I got these responses. The first is David Muir, who said "research dollars are being channeled by those 'in the know' into drug therapy trials for NF1. The nature of the NF1 gene makes gene therapy insurmountably challenging at this time." He recommended asking the question to his colleague Peggy Wallace who is on the Board of Directors and is a long-time scientific advisor of the CTF. She said that

With regard to your gene therapy questions, the idea of just replacing or fixing the gene is appealing, but not currently feasible. However, there are some approaches being developed, aimed at trying to coax the gene to function despite its mutation (e.g. a drug that helps cells skip stop mutations, and therapies aimed at correcting splicing abnormalities). These don't actually fix the gene itself, so would need to be long-term therapies (a potential roadblock for some therapies). These are already under consideration in NF (we're testing one of the skip/stop drugs here, in a mouse model). No such therapies are FDA-approved for any condition yet, but some are in clinical trials in other conditions. These would be aimed more specifically at an individual's own mutation (I suspect there are probably over 1000 independent NF1 mutations known by now, but there's not an up-to-date database at the moment). I don't know the mutation distribution for SPRED1. NF1 mutations are of all different types. I'm not sure what you mean by taxonomy, but you can break down the mutations generally into deletions, insertions, and nucleotide substitutions; the effect of each depends on the size/location of that change. I believe that about 20-30% are stop mutations, 30-50% cause splicing errors, and the others are insertions/deletions/missense mutations. One issue with the splicing repair approach might be difficulty getting the therapy delivered to the Schwann cells due to the blood/nerve barrier; drugs that are small enough can probably get there. Also it will be hard to get therapies FDA approved which carry any kind of health risk, especially in a person who is pre-symptomatic (as in prevention) since there's no predicting what complications an individual will have (if any) and so you can't give a risk/benefit analysis. That will be a problem for systemic, long-term therapies. It will likely be easier to get approval for targeted therapies that are of relatively short duration (e.g. the photodynamic therapy work that Dr. Muir is testing on the tumors in mouse models). We also don't know if a therapy to short-cut a mutation (as mentioned above) will work in a symptom which has already progressed beyond being dependent just on loss of neurofibromin. So those are some of the considerations. The Children's Tumor Foundation is leading the charge in trying to take the best ideas to preclinical testing and then actual clinical trials, leveraging federal dollars. Some of the clinical trials have already tried some of the drugs you mention below, but to the best of my knowledge, there have been no treatments with uniformly good response.

I have edited the following pages related to NF, and suggested a WikiProject or Medicine Task Force for this area specifically, but it was considered to be too specialized:

Thanks, Erxnmedia (talk) 19:08, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

I think what you are requesting falls within the scope of WP:MCB and especially the Gene Wiki projects. Adding clinical significance sections to gene/protein articles is definitely encouraged. However I am not clear exactly what you are requesting. If there is public domain material concerning the clinical consequences of gene mutations and if this data is provided in a machine readable format, then we could consider capturing this data and systemically including the data in relevant Wikipedia articles. Is this what you had in mind? If on the other hand you are primarily interested in neurofibromatosis and closely related diseases, then we can help you insert the mutation data in the relevant articles on a case by case basis. Boghog (talk) 20:07, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Hi Boghog,

The practice in the medical industry seems to be to publish descriptions of individual clinically significant observed mutations in articles, but not to publish say the sequences of every one of a body of patients who have various mutations of a given gene. These sequences are published but in closed-access commercial database projects.

The achievable goal may be to scrape published articles for descriptions of particular mutation sites and their clinical significance. For example SPRED1 mutation list.

If you can design a bot which does a good job at this then I would apply it to every gene cataloged in Wikipedia in a batch. I would also add/merge all of the articles in User:Cboursnell/Sandbox which seem to be the result of this kind of bot, see my interaction with Alexbateman who has created this batch in sandbox and gave permission to publish all but hasn't published them himself: User talk:Cboursnell#EVH domain, EVH1 domain, Sprouty domain.

For what I am interested in, I have worked on Ena/Vasp homology proteins, EVH1 domain, SPR domain, SPRED1, SPRED2, SPRED3, SPRY1, SPRY2, SPRY3 and SPRY4.

Thanks, Erxnmedia (talk) 03:29, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. There are really two issues here. The first is how to extract mutation data from the primary scientific literature. This is in practice, very difficult since the data is unstructured. Text mining software can help, but it is still not trivial. An even bigger problem is that access to many scientific journals is not free. I am afraid that the only solution is to manually mine the data as you have already done for SPRED1. I will see what I can do for the other family members. The second issue is the protein domains. These are much easier to handle since the material in the Pfam database is in the public domain and a corresponding Wikipeida article is systematically being made for each Pfam entry (see the Pfam blog). If there are other protein domains that you are interested for which a Wikipedia article has not been created yet, let me know. I have a semi automated way of creating these based on material sent to me by Biophys. Boghog (talk) 04:52, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Thymosin beta 4

Hi Boghog

I see we are getting duplication of material between the thymosin beta4 page and the part of the beta thymosins entry dealing with beta4. I added the Riley heart studies there earlier today, where there was already context about tissue regenerative activities and a generally fuller account of beta 4. I'm not sure what ought to be done about such a duplicatiion, but presumably at least some more "See Also" links? Jgedwards (talk) 22:44, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Hi John. Thanks for the heads up. I have added some {{see also}} templates to Thymosin beta-4 pointing back to the much more developed Beta thymosins article. I don't think it would be practical to merge all the gene specific beta thymosin articles into the parent, so I think cross referencing is the best solution for now. Boghog (talk) 05:44, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Looks good, thanks. Presume there will always be duplication where articles about gene families as well as individual human genes. I see the publicity re heart repair caused a notable spike in hits to the thymosin pages. I'm still hoping to get onto the closely related WH2 domains - would be good for Pfam also to have that.

In case you hadn't seen this yet, I recently created the WH2 motif (aka WH2 domain).

I'd welcome advice on another matter: I've made significant progress with phylogeny of beta thymosins. For example there's a very interesting exception to the restriction to multicellular animals - a beta thymosin in a choanoflagellate, an organism believed to be at the margin of multicellularity. Question is whether for Wikipedia, this has to be in peer reviewed journal paper, or whether one can directly cite the openly available evidence of a sequence database entry. Jgedwards (talk) 11:28, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

A peer reviewed article is normally needed to support material included in a Wikipedia scientific article. If the phylogeny exception is obvious (i.e., can be inferred by routine comparison the sequences stored in public databases) it might be allowed (see for example WP:CALC). If on the other hand, the conclusion could reasonably be challenged (e.g., results are dependent on the set of sequences compared, alignment method used, etc.), then this would probably be considered synthesis and therefore not allowed. Boghog (talk) 19:07, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Boghog - thanks for this. Clearly a rigorous attitude to citation is the way to ensure reliability. Given that beta thymosin sequences are so strongly conserved, I reckon the unicellular exception I mentioned possibly counts as obvious to "routine comparison". You can just tblastn the human b4 sequence or any of the many others, against Monosiga genomic and there are also two transcripts. So I'll probably add it - if anyone (including yourself) maintains this is synthesis then I won't argue and they can of course delete it. I see there is a good article about choanoflagellates, relation to animals etc which mentions the Monosiga genome.

From the way you describe it, I would not object if you included the phylogeny exception in the article, however others might have a different opinion. If someone objects, we can discuss it further in the article's talk page. Boghog (talk) 08:52, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

I hadn't caught up with WH2 - well done with that. It reads well. Presumably it should shortly appear as default annotation in Pfam. There's a view that thymosins are essentially WH2 domains - based on partial sequence similarity and fold when bound to actin. It's controversial and I've summarised as neutrally as I could in the beta thymosins article. Jgedwards (talk) 22:20, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks but I have to confess that the material for this article was primarily based on public domain Pfam PF02205 and InterPro: IPR003124 content that was compiled and formatted by Biophys. And thank you for the great job you have done with the beta thymosins article. We are very fortunate to have someone with your tremendous depth of knowledge contribute to this article. Boghog (talk) 08:52, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Proposed Image Deletion

A deletion discussion has just been created at Category talk:Unclassified Chemical Structures, which may involve one or more orphaned chemical structures, that has you user name in the upload history. Please feel free to add your comments.  Ronhjones  (Talk) 22:48, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

WH2 and Scar

Hi boghog

I just noticed your WH2 links SCAR1 to SETX. These are completely unrelated proteins which unfortunately at some stage have acquired a coincidentally common synonym. The WH2-containing SCAR1 WASP family .proteins are named after a screen in Dictyostelium - something like Suppressor of Cyclic AMP Receptor. SETX is a considerably larger protein, probably a helicase, and doesn't contain WH2, as you can see by posting it into Pfam. I'd suggest killing the link. Jgedwards (talk) 00:37, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for catching my error. I have changed the SCAR1 piped link from SETX to WASF1. As you point out. SCAR1 is a synonym for both but in the context of the WH2 domain article, the link should be to WASF1. Sorry about that. Boghog (talk) 08:01, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Beta thymosins proposed re-arrangement

Hi Boghog

Would appreciate your response to discussion on Beta thymosins discussion page Jgedwards (talk) 08:22, 13 June 2011 (UTC)


[2]. Biophys (talk) 16:31, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Lead sentence

Thanks for the info about the gene pages. I was unaware that there was a style guide for the gene articles. I'll try and get all those articles put right by the end of the weekend. I did leave a couple thoughts here. --Kerowyn Leave a note 06:35, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

No problem and thanks for your quick reply. I agree that these lead sentences are a little messy and I wish we had a better way of structuring them, but the present consensus is the best we have come up with so far. Cheers. Boghog (talk) 06:54, 24 June 2011 (UTC)


Thanks for the cleanup on GPRC6A! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gryderart (talkcontribs) 20:07, 29 June 2011 (UTC)


You should really get the admin bits. Would be happy to nominate you if interested. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 09:42, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

I was just going to tell you the same thing after seeing your tag on Signal peptidase and other similar things before. I guess you don't like dramaz but you can be an admin without having to get involved in any of that! I'd be happy to conom. SmartSE (talk) 14:53, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
Ditto. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 16:50, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
Thanks guys. I didn't think I had much need for the tools, but with my recent work on templates I have slowly started to change my mind. In recent WP:RFA discussions I noticed that many place a high emphasis on content creation. Perhaps it is not necessary, but I first wanted to bring the nuclear receptor article to good article status. I think that would help pave the way for a successful vote. I will be on holiday shortly and should have more time for the GA followed by a RfA. Thanks again for your support. Cheers. Boghog (talk) 17:08, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Drug box

Are we able to move the sandbox version that you have created to the main version? It seems to work well. Wish to start adding "clinical data" to more articles. --Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 05:07, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Sure, but I first wanted to do a few more checks to make sure that the changes don't produce any unintended effects. Also since the changes are fairly extensive, I think we need to make sure that there is consensus. I will post a request for comment on the project talk page. Assuming there are no objections, I think we should be able to incorporate the changes in the production version in a couple of days. Cheers. Boghog (talk) 20:28, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
Sounds good. Thanks. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 03:15, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
BTW any possibility of a bot to help implement these changes? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 11:15, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
Writing a bot script to add fields to a infobox is easy. And while I have not done this before, I think it will be relatively straight forward to script the creation of a special purpose drugbox template for each drug article and transclude this back into the article. The hard part is compiling the data to populate the new fields in the drugbox templates. It appears that the trade names and link can be obtained from Drugbank download data. However I still need a mapping of the "INN drug name" → "Medline Plus accession number" (e.g., Linezolid → a692051). It is a bit messy, but it appears that I can capture this from the html sources of the Medline Plus tables of contents. I am very busy at the moment, but I may have time in a few weeks to awake BogBot from its hibernation to complete this job. Cheers. Boghog (talk) 19:59, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Sorry to be a pain but wondering if their has been any movement on creating a bot? My abilities in this realm are poor. Might be a good idea to learn though. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 22:13, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

As you are so busy :-) Am seeing if we can get some help here [3] Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 20:33, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
Hate to be a bother... but need help with getting the bot running? Anything I can do as a non programmer? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 05:29, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
I have extracted all the data including (1) "INN drug name" → "Medline Plus accession number" and (2) trade names taken from the Drugbank DrugCard data and Merck Manual. So in principle I could run the bot. The only problem is what trade names to include (see trade names in drugboxes and trade name redirect discussions). The Drugbank list is much more extensive, but apparently contains a large number of errors. The Merck list is much narrower (focusing almost entirely on trade names in use in the U.S.). The safest course might be just to include the more restricted list in the Merck Manual for now. Thoughts? Boghog (talk) 05:55, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
There are frequently thousands of brand names for every generic name. Lexicomp has an exhaustive list. However I think we should limit the inclusion in the drugbox to 2-4. If there are more that people wish to add they can go lower in the article in its own section. Like here [4] Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 16:09, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
Will the bot be able to add the link? Also will it be able to rearrange the fields and put in little headers such as I have done manually here [5] ? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 16:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
The link is trivial to add since the required web address can be constructed using the International Nonproprietary Name. Since not all drugs have entries, it is important to make sure that the link is "live", but that is also fairly easy to check. Sorting the order field is also trivial and the bot will do this as well. Finally the issue with trade names is a choice between Merck with at most one name vs. Drugbank with a few to a few hundred names, many of which may be in error. Lexicomp is completely useless to me, since it is commercial and I do not have access to it. There are at least two other commercial sites that also contains lists of trade names that I do have access to, but data extraction on this magnitude is strictly prohibited by our license agreements with the respective data providers. To be useful, the data must be in the public domain. Boghog (talk) 19:08, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
Great. Let me know when we can run the bot. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 20:41, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
This weekend. For now, I will restrict the trade names to the one provide by Merck (at most one per drug). Boghog (talk) 21:12, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
Great and if their are further brand names they can be added manually.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 21:36, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Fast inverse square route

After having removed the `[sic]`s from [[the code sample on Fast inverse square root, I had a look through the edit history. From what I gather you added them as a measure to preserve the comments from vandalism claims—as sensible as that is, that's not what they're for. (talk) 08:36, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Responded here. Boghog (talk) 10:46, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

A chance ...?

A chance to use "hobgoblin"? No. I understand the value of consistency; and it's not foolish consistency we're talking here, right?

Well, I'm a generalist wandered as per often into specialized territory. If you'd just reverted the format and level of detail on the authors' names, I maybe'd have let it go. But you also went for the journal-name link.

On the authors' names, I'll ask you a question: Is there anything lost by straying beyond the prescribed form in an instance? There's no possibility of confusion. I gave more information, so any specialized reader, or a general reader who knew nothing of Vancouver style, could understand the way I'd expanded the names. The question may become, Why did I do it? I was interested in the last name of one of the authors. That's it. I found for instance that s/he was on the Edit. Board of that BJU Int.. So I upgraded that article, too, and linked this one to it. Does it add anything, to have the additional information and the links to make it easily available to the maybe casually interested? (I did appreciate your "good faith" nod; and I think I'm granting the same to you; I've seen you're producing lots of (specialized) articles for Wikipedia. ... I ... like ... that they're here. ... I don't like to feel they're ... "off limits," though.) To me, what I did does seem to add something. You use consistency and a query to remove what I deemed worthwhile additional information. You seem to be trying to keep the shield of specialization drawn around a subject. To that I'd just start to close by asking of you, Why?

You may well counter that my solitary edit of this one article's and one journal's information unfairly and inexplicably makes that information stand out from "the rest." It's a reasonable counter. I'm currently just beginning to ponder the Wiki back-and-forth over different citation templates. Not directly related, I know, .... But just the way you didn't even think to link to "Vancouver style," just sort of waved it in front of us .... Well .... Whatever.

Well, I guess I am (sneaking up to and now finally) saying that your bid for consistency is sort of foolish. No disrespect intended. I stumbled in. I found the author listing confusing, as to whose last names went with which initials. I've learned now. But I also left a clearer alternative. I don't need to challenge the whole Vancouver protocol of 30+ years standing. I just like to know, and to communicate ... to others of my ilk, that there are alternatives. No big deal, no big boat-rock. Do you really need to enforce, rather than just observe, that discipline, that protocol? Respectfully yours, Swliv (talk) 14:01, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Hi, if you want to change it back, I don't have any strong objections. There are no generally accepted guidelines covering citation formatting. However concerning author lists in citations, I do think the WP:CONSISTENCY and WP:CITEVAR guidelines are worth taking into account. Concerning whether journal names in citations should be linked, I see there is a wide diversity of opinions. My opinions mirror Ohconfucius (talk · contribs), namely that linking journal names can lead to excessive blue text in the citation section. Furthermore what journal a source is published in is generally not so important (while some journals are more prestigious than others, journals with in the same field usually conform to similar editorial policies and consequently are largely interchangeable). What is important is that the source is reliable (i.e., peer-reviewed) and most journals meet this minimum standard. Boghog (talk) 06:10, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for your nicely modulated and informative response. While I've thought about your offer a few times, I haven't felt the push to take your offer. That may change. I'm not sure I agree, still. But for now, I'm letting it rest. Thanks again. Swliv (talk) 01:05, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Ambassador Program: assessment drive

Even though it's been quiet on-wiki, the Wikipedia Ambassador Program has been busy over the last few months getting ready for the next term. We're heading toward over 80 classes in the US, across all disciplines. You'll see courses start popping up here, and this time we want to match one or more Online Ambassadors to each class based on interest or expertise in the subject matter. If you see a class that you're interested, please contact the professor and/or me; the sooner the Ambassadors and professors get in communication, the better things go. Look for more in the coming weeks about next term.

In the meantime, with a little help I've identified all the articles students did significant work on in the last term. Many of the articles have never been assessed, or have ratings that are out of date from before the students improved them. Please help assess them! Pick a class, or just a few articles, and give them a rating (and add a relevant WikiProject banner if there isn't one), and then update the list of articles.

Once we have updated assessments for all these articles, we can get a better idea of how quality varied from course to course, and which approaches to running Wikipedia assignments and managing courses are most effective.

--Sage Ross - Online Facilitator, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 17:22, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

new fields

Those fields that you are adding by (bog)bot are probably numbers that are verifiable correct, aren't they? If so, it would be good if CheMoBot would follow them and tag them if someone would change them ...

My questions hence:

  • Which fields are new, and will soon contain data which is verified ('immutable') , and
  • do you have a list where the values are linked to one of the fields which we have at the moment already verified (UNII, ChemSpiderID, StdInChI, StdInChIKey, ChEMBL, KEGG)?
  • Are there other fields in the drugboxes for which we can do the same, and for which you know lists which would help?

With that list/such lists I could upgrade my script, and update the index also for these fields (pff .. then I have to upgrade that script again, but that is due anyway, as there are other tasks approaching, and I have another list ready to be incorporated as well). --Dirk Beetstra T C 22:19, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

P.S. One of the problematic ones is still the KEGG, I have a list InChI <-> KEGG (directly from KEGG) but unfortunately that is InChI, and not StdInChI .. the former is too variable to verify (different tastes). Do you by any chance know a better list? --Dirk Beetstra T C 22:19, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for your interest. In answer to your questions, the new fields are:
  • MedlinePlus
My main source of data is extracted from Drugbank DrugCard data. The links are more complicated since there are various subsections of this web site (see this link for more detail). The bot tries to link to various parts of the database using the INN and tradenames in predetermined hierarchy until it finds a functional link (200: ('OK', 'Request fulfilled, document follows')) and a link is added only if the link works. The bot also checks the MedlinePlus link to make sure it is working. Hence I am fairly certain that both these links are reliable.
In addition, based on this discussion the bot is supplementing the list of tradenames using data scraped from Merck Manual website:
  • tradename
Finally if the drugbox is missing any of the following data:
  • ChemSpiderID
  • KEGG
  • PubChem
it adds it from data taken from the Drugbank using the INN to make a match. To the extent that the Drugbank is reliable, the added ChemSpiderID, KEGG, and PubChem links should also be reliable.
Concerning KEGG, I don't have any suggestions above and beyond the Drugbank DrugCard data, but I haven't looked either. I will see what I can find. Boghog (talk) 23:01, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

But you source all data from drugbank by searching for the INN, or from the drugbank identifier? --Dirk Beetstra T C 23:05, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

I am currently using the INN. However since I am parsing all the fields in the drugbox, it would be fairly easy to add additional cross checks. I am open to suggestions on the best way to do this. Boghog (talk) 23:11, 31 July 2011 (UTC) Now that you mention it, it would make sense to use the drugbank identifier if it is already in the drugbox and it is verified. Boghog (talk) 23:14, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
Well, I am probably the one that needs suggestions.
The INN, if it is not mentioned in the lede, it is the article name that is the INN, right (so that is where you find that for each article transcluding a drugbox).
Note, we do not have drugbox verified (in the CheMoBot sense) - yet another identifier for which I would like to see a full list linking it to one of the parameters that we do have verified (I prefer to use the StdInChI as thé base-parameter, that uniquely identifies a molecule at least, something that can not be said for hardly any other identifier (ChEMBL is the only one maybe, it has a one-on-one connection to the StdInChI). --Dirk Beetstra T C 23:21, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
According to WP:PHARMMOS, the article should be named after the INN. However given the way Wikipedia operates, there is no guarantee of course that the article name is identical to the INN. Hence as a separate exercise, it might be useful to first scan all articles that transclude the drugbox and compare (1) the Wikipedia article name, (2) the drug_name and DrugBank parameters in the drugbox, and (3) the INN taken from Drugbank DrugCards to look for and manually correct any inconsistencies afterwards.
This brings up another issue. What exactly is drug_name parameter? This is not documented in the Drugbox description. If defined, it overrides the display of the page name above the images. Apparently the purpose of this parameter is just to add some flexibility. Perhaps we should add a specific INN parameter and while we are at it, the USAN. It is no longer necessary to include BAN since this should now be identical to the INN. Boghog (talk) 12:20, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
In the link above (Drugbank DrugCard data) there is a link between drugbank and pagename .. they do provide wikilinks in that file. That file may turn out really interesting, I may have a go and parse that, and use it to verify data. I can then take that at the same time as a list I have from the EMBL-EBI (ChEBI <-> StdInChIKey .. the latter we have verified on many pages, so it is a matter of linking the two). But I really need to rewrite my script for that, it is becoming a mess.
'drug_name' .. no clue. I think it has always been there. Chembox has similarly a parameter, but generally uses the pagename (from {{PAGENAME}}) as the title, so actually that one is obsolete. Though, maybe it was before that patch of the Wikimedia software came through, that the 'pagename' would say 'P-Toluenesulfonic acid' instead of 'p-Toluenesulfonic acid', and hence we used a name-parameter to override the pagename. Now obsolete, maybe should be parsed out.

By the way, thanks! Because of your sorting I found a bug in User:CheMoBot (now resolved) - of course the last parameter ends before the closing double curly brackets. --Dirk Beetstra T C 23:07, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Yes, parsing these templates is really tricky. I just I hope I don't have any remaining bugs in my script ;-) Boghog (talk) 12:20, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
One of the things that kept bugging me for quite some time are the characters inside InChI's and SMILES .. they screw up wikimarkup sometimes, and therefore also screw up parsing opening and closing brackets .. some other formatting thingies in the box also do that, as well as pre-broken boxes which then get completely messed up. And there are always developing new bugs where I have no clue why they appear on some pages, and not on others (one was that it kept adding ' = {{XXXref|??|XXX}}' to some _Ref fields (if you could clean them when you encounter them, would be appreciated, I haven't seen them in the last couple of days, maybe I solved it when I worked on the counting issue). --Dirk Beetstra T C 17:05, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
As long as the opening and closing brackets and parenthesis are matched, I don't think it will cause a problem with my script. On the other hand, I am worried about unmatched brackets or parenthesis since these may trigger an infinite loop. I am pretty sure that properly formed InChi and SMILES strings should never contain unmatched parenthesis, so these strings by themselves should not cause a problem, but then again one can never be totally sure. I will add a test for unmatched brackets and parenthesis and if found, abort processing of the offending article with an appropriate error message written to the log since the presence of these may indicate that the drugbox may be corrupt. I think the current version of my script would treat the strange example you gave as a parameter that would be stored in a python dictionary but not propagated since the name is not a standard parameter. But what really should happen is that the script should faithfully propagate anything that is wrapped in nowiki tags and only filter these out if they match a specifically defined pattern like the one you gave above. I will add code to do this. Boghog (talk) 21:31, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
Not sure about the number of it .. but if you check for double opening and double closing brackets, then no, they sometimes don't strictly match up (as in 'blah[blah[blah]]blah', open and close in number match, but there is a 'double closing bracket' which sometimes bites, and which may screw up parsing. And when they are in the name, you might (literally) find 'blah<nowiki>[[</nowiki>blah', since otherwise it would be treated as a start of a wikilink .. I have chosen to temporary character encode EVERYTHING inside nowiki tags while I am parsing opening and closing brackets.
I started rewriting my 'verification script' .. will take a bit. --Dirk Beetstra T C 21:37, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
Yes, your right, 'blah[blah[blah]]blah' would definitely cause a problem. So I should also check for double unmatched parentheses and brackets. Thanks for the tip.
Try 1,2,3,4,6-Pentagalloyl_glucose, 1,25-Dihydroxycholecalciferol, 2-Methylacetoacetyl-CoA. Especially the third one should prove interesting. --Dirk Beetstra T C 12:14, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
Oops .. I forgot, you only do drugboxes. I'll look further. --Dirk Beetstra T C 12:16, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

We might want to consider to write something so that the StdInChI and StdInChIKey are rendered into the final result of the page with a drugbox (not necessarily display, it is ugly) - then they get Google indexed, and you can find the article by looking for the StdInChI, some thing that some people do look for. Note that the value for InChI get stored without the 'InChI=' in front of it (to avoid the ugly 'InChI = InChI=<value>', which probably will get removed by some in some cases as 'duplicate, so probably wrong' etc.), so that needs to be added to the rendering. --Dirk Beetstra T C 17:05, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

That sounds cool as well useful. How would one render but not display something? Use white font? My knowledge of html is very rudimentary. Boghog (talk) 21:31, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
Or hide it .. so that people can find it when they need it, but it is not normally shown? --Dirk Beetstra T C 21:37, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
Right, of course, hide it in a collapsible part of the template. That sounds like a good solution. Boghog (talk) 21:45, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

This field in the box is not working see Lisinopril for example. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 20:20, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Fixed. That was a special test case and the only live example using the old hard link. I have now updated to include the new {{}} template. Boghog (talk) 20:27, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
Great how close are we to running the bot? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 20:33, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
Very close. The script itself seems to work well, but the discussion above with Dirk has prompted me to add more cross checking to the script to be absolutely sure that the right data is added to the drugbox. In addition, I need final permission from the Bot Approvals Group (see request for approval) before working on articles en masse. This could take a few days. Boghog (talk) 20:52, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
Looks like we have approval to run the bot on 100 articles. Need any help with this step? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 19:15, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
I am currently very busy in real life but will have time in a few days to modify script as described above and finish the job. The bot has already successfully run a few dozen test edits (see BogBot contributions). Boghog (talk) 07:56, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Comments on bot run

Have been going over the bot edits.

  1. At Fluvoxamine a link to CDI is given when an AHFS page exists [6]. The same has occurred for loperamide and Gentamicin The page for gent can be found here [7] but the bot linked to an otic solution page.
  2. This one here looks great [8]
  3. Just common across this page Infliximab I think the section on monoclonal antibody should go below clinical uses and we should no be using a link in the heading.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 15:45, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for your feedback. It is good to have more than one pair of eyes checking the bot. The links to Fluvoxamine and Loperamide are very difficult for the bot to locate since the links are to specific salt forms that are not included in the article name nor the INN. I am not sure at the moment how to automate a more sophisticated search, but I will think more about it. Gentamicin is another complicated case since it is available in several different formulations and there are no less than eight different monographs and it is not clear which is the best to link to. The otic link was an external redirect from to Of the available links, the mtm (Multum Consumer Information) link is arguably the best since it appears to the most general, but if you disagree, please feel free to change it.
The order of sections displayed by the drugbox is determined by the {{drugbox}} template and not by the order of parameters written by the bot. Hence if you think the the monoclonal antibody section should be moved down, this should be proposed on the templates talk page. I have mixed feelings myself about doing this. I agree that the format of the question mark link displayed above the drugbox is strange, but again, this display is determined by the template, and not by any parameters added by the bot to the template. So this also needs to be discussed on the template talk page. Boghog (talk) 03:23, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
If one looks at say the CDI page [9] at the bottom one sees the text (AHFS DI) if an AHFS page exists. Could we have the script look for this? Otherwise could we generate a list of pages for which AHFS was not found so that someone could verify manually?Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 04:50, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
Good suggestion! It should be relatively straight forward to look for the monograph link in non-monograph entries and also write to the log file if a monograph link is not found. I will work on implementing this. Boghog (talk) 10:33, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Wondering if we could set it to add lines of text even if they are not used? For example in the edit to amitriptyline it would be nice for it to add "|trade name=" even if it does not fill it in. [10] Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 03:19, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

That would be easy to do, but I am hesitant because of the large diversity of drug articles, and it is difficult to decide which parameters should always be included. I suppose it wouldn't hurt always include the tradename parameter, but I don't think we should add too many additional parameters, many of which will never be used in some articles. Boghog (talk) 03:43, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Online Ambassadors: Time to join pods

Hello! If you're planning to be an active Online Ambassador for the upcoming academic term, now is the time to join one or more pods. (A pod consists of the instructor, the Campus Ambassadors, and the Online Ambassadors for single class.) The Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) explains the expectations for being part of a pod as an Online Ambassador. (The MOU for pods in Canada is essentially the same.) In short, the role of Online Ambassadors this term consists of:

  • Working closely with the instructor and Campus Ambassadors, providing advice and perspective as an experienced Wikipedian
  • Helping students who ask for it (or helping them to find the help they need)
  • Watching out for the class as a whole
  • Helping students to get community feedback on their work

This replaces the 1-on-1 mentoring role for Online Ambassadors that we had in previous terms; rather than being responsible for individual students (some of whom don't want or help or are unresponsive), Online Ambassadors will be there to help whichever students in their class(es) ask for help.

You can browse the upcoming courses here: United States; Canada. More are being added as new pods become active and create their course pages.

Once you've found a class that you want to work with—especially if you some interest or expertise in the topic area—you should sign the MOU listing for that class and get in touch with the instructor. We're hoping to have at least two Online Ambassadors per pod, and more for the larger classes.

If you're up for supporting any kind of class and would like me to assign you to a pod in need of more Online Ambassadors, just let me know.

--Sage Ross - Online Facilitator, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 16:31, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

PS: There are still a lot of student articles from the last term that haven't been rated. Please rate a few and update the list!

Providing verification of preg catergory

Was wondering if we should provide verification (ie a ref) for the drug categories. People are not to use Wikipedia for prescribing but this would add a bit of safety and allay potential fears. For example was looking at lisinopril which was given a D however the ref says it is a C in the first trimester and D in the second and third. What we had before could cause excess fear. [11]. Does the FDA have a site that lists all the preg catergories for all the meds? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 01:03, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Off the top of my head, I don't know of any readily available source of information concerning preg categories. I will dig around and see what I can find. In order not to complicate the current bot approval process, I suggest that we not add this to the present BogBot task, but rather add this to a follow-up task. Boghog (talk) 20:07, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Further reading

Hi, I'm fairly new to editing protein articles, so perhaps you could clarify something for me? What's the rationale behind the Further Reading sections on most protein/gene articles like the one you added here. Some of the papers in that one were only vaguely related to the subject. I assume these sections are auto-generated but I'm not convinced they are necessarily useful. A more select list might be less confusing for some readers. Do you use a bot to generate the lists? Thanks. --Pontificalibus (talk) 21:28, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for your interest. These gene/protein articles are created/maintained as part of the Gene Wiki project. Many of these article were originally created by a the ProteinBoxBot and to demonstate notability and to provide seed material to assist human editors in expanding the article, a further reading section was added. Ideally over time, human editors would move relevant citations in-line so that the further reading section would eventually disappear. Concerning SGSM2 I was responding to a request that was made here and I used the GeneWikiGenerator to expand the article. Part of the expansion is the further reading section. I manually pruned this list to exclude genome sequencing citations however I will admit that some of the remaining citations may only be peripherally related SGSM2. If so, please feel free to prune the list further. Cheers. Boghog (talk) 21:46, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
Ta, that makes things clear.--Pontificalibus (talk) 11:08, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Alpha/Beta phase of i.v.

Hi Boghog, I saw your new section and I think it's well-written. One additional thing that'd be helpful is to include an example chart of concentration vs. time with arrows pointing to the phase where passive diffusion dominates and the phase where elimination dominates (By the way, do you mean elimination as in "excretion" or elimination as in "metabolism" + "excretion"? Some pharmacologists use the term "elimination" in the same way as "excretion"). --Bobthefish2 (talk) 18:13, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi Bobthefish. Thanks for your kind words. I think the meaning of "elimination" intended here is "metabolism" + "excretion". I need to do more background reading (disclaimer: I am not a pharmacokineticist although I do work in the pharmaceutical industry.) I will see what I can do about the graphic. Cheers. Boghog (talk) 21:01, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
No worries, I am much less a pharmacokineticist than you are - namely, I only have a undergraduate level of understanding in medicinal chemistry. If the graph is too much of a hassle, you don't need to bother. I was under the impression that these graphs are easy to find. Maybe I will try to find one in a Pharmacology 101 lecture document. --Bobthefish2 (talk) 00:08, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
Found it. Image: [12], website: [13]. Now, the question is how to import the image into WP. I don't have any experience with that. --Bobthefish2 (talk) 07:47, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for the link. The image however is copyrighted and therefore cannot be uploaded to Wikipedia without the permission of the copyright holder. I have therefore recreated the image from scratch. Boghog (talk) 08:57, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
Plasma drug concentration vs time after an IV dose
Good work. That website also has other good images. I will see if I can redraw some of them like you did and put them up there. --Bobthefish2 (talk) 19:33, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
Hi guys; sorry for cutting in. ;-) We must not forget that the phases after i.v. administration always imply an underlying pharmacokinetic model. We shouldn't make a general statement about alpha/beta (=2 compartment open model) giving readers the false impression that this is 'carved from stone'. Especially at low doses only one phase is captured due to limitations in bioanalytical methods, whereas with 'better' methods and/or at higher doses more phases (gamma and sometimes even delta) are commonly seen. I'm also not happy with the image. The concentration is in log-scale which is good for educational purposes – but might be confusing if compared to the p.o. image below (linear scale). I would suggest to either give an explanation in the image itself or at least in the image's caption. Alfie↑↓© 12:25, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for the suggestions. I think both the figure and the text can be tweaked to address your concerns. Starting with the figure, I have uploaded a new version (displayed to the right) that specifies that the y-axis is on a log scale. For an encyclopedia aimed at both a wide audience, but also specialists, I suggest that we not complicate the figure any further by adding additional phases. But these should be mentioned in the text. Do you have any good sources that document gamma and delta phases? Boghog (talk) 20:35, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
Hi Boghog! I have copypasted the discussion to Talk:Pharmacokinetics#Alpha.2FBeta_phase_of_i.v. in order to get more helping hands. More over there. Alfie↑↓© 00:10, 1 September 2011 (UTC)


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH?????? What on Earth did you do to the Polymyxin B article??????? I reverted your edit as the article was entirely unusable due to formatting errors - if you were adding legit information, please consult faqs and edit using proper format - PLEASE USE THE SANDBOX IF YOU AREN'T FAMILIAR WITH EDITING WIKIPEDIA ARTICLES.

If you are merely playing with or learning about editing bots, please stop as you have corrupted an article on a highly important subject. Bots are inherently dependent upon humans and humans make mistakes. Please don't assist those who seek to discredit Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 08:15, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for catching the error which I have corrected. No one is perferct, bots included. The bot has undergone extensive sandbox testing and has successfully modified over 2000 articles that transclude the {{drugbox}} template. I try to manually check the edits made by bogbot, but because of the large number of edits, it becomes almost impossible to check each and every edit. There are a few extremely rare special cases (for example the <nowiki></nowiki> tags that I did not anticipate would be imbedded in a template) that trigger errors. As I find an error, I modify the bot script so that error does not occur again. Boghog (talk) 12:16, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

UBQLN1 Article

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to revert your reference-reformatting edit (about 20 minutes ago) to UBQLN1. I was just editing at the same time you were.

I think you since got your edits back in, which do improve the article.


H.Tamahagane 20:24, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your note. No worries. Cheers. Boghog (talk) 20:30, 1 September 2011 (UTC)


Hi there! It looks like BogBot dropped a critical "</nowiki>" off the end of the IUPAC name field of the {{Drugbox}}. Diff here - Alison 19:02, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for alerting me to the error and fixing it. I will modify the script to make sure it doesn't happen again. Cheers. Boghog (talk) 19:04, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Yes it is working for me... Could I run the bot from where I am?Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 22:05, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the confirming the site is working. I can also access it, but only through an anonymizer. It is non-trivial to set up the environment to run a python bot. Also it takes some baby sitting. Finally, you also might get blocked. Hence I think it would be much better to wait for a response from They might have some suggestions for how to do this better (e.g., if they have a INN to mapping, it would make things much easier). Boghog (talk) 22:24, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Tryptophan biosynthesis.png

Hi Boghog. I just wanted to let you know that I have marked the image File:Tryptophan biosynthesis.png on Commons with the "disputed chem" tag because there appears to be an error in the third structure - there is an extra carbon between the sugar and the anthranilate group. Can you please have a look and fix it? Or I can create a new image, if necessary. -- Ed (Edgar181) 11:45, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Edgar181 for altering me to the problem. I corrected the error. I will also see if I can create a svg version. Boghog (talk) 12:19, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
That was quick! Thanks. -- Ed (Edgar181) 12:30, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Bug .. ??

Hey Bog(b/h)o(g/t)! Can you examine this edit. You are there deleting info and breaking the page with moving comment marks. Subsequently, CheMoBot has a problem with the page, but I am not sure if that is due to the edit by the bot, or if I have a mistake in my coding as well. I'll keep an eye on this one, may debug CheMoBot as well on that page if it persists still. Thanks! --Dirk Beetstra T C 10:39, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Sorry! The problem was with BogBot not CheMoBot. I forgot to check for wiki markup comment tags (<!-- -->) that span multiple lines. I have now added code to BogBot that will condense these comments to the same line. Thanks for cleaning up after my bot. Cheers. Boghog (talk) 16:05, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
No probs. I was sure it was a problem with BogBot ;-), and I am happy to see that CheMoBot now does not particularly care anymore now the broken markup is gone. Still funny that CheMoBot is propagating an error on that page, should try and figure out what is the problem there (the bot does clear out comments before parsing the data out of the box .. so it should not care too much, it should on that page just have missed some parameters). --Dirk Beetstra T C 08:37, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Placement of synonyms parameter in drugbox

Hi! I've just noticed that BogBot places the synonyms parameter in the Chemical data section, [14] not in the Identifiers section where it is displayed (and where I think it belongs). Not a big thing, but I thought you might want to know. Cheers, ἀνυπόδητος (talk) 12:15, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Hi ἀνυπόδητος! Thanks for catching this small error. I have modified the bot so the synonyms parameter is moved to the Identifiers section to the match the display. For now, this will only affect templates that have as yet been reformatted, but I may at some point in the future re-run the bot over the entire list to fix this error. Cheers. Cite error: There are <ref> tags on this page without content in them (see the help page).

Infobox rfam

Hi Boghog. I am in the process of getting the Rfambot to convert the pages with the old rfam box to the new Infobox rfam. I will also be getting the bot to update and maintain some of the Rfam relevant fields in the infobox rfam. It would be useful to us if there was a field in the template for Rfam release version - so we can keep track of updates as some of the fields in the template do vary from release to release. The 'Rfam release' field need not be displayed in the box, infact its is probably better if is not. Unfortunately, none of us here at Rfam seems seem to know how to add a field that is not actually displayed. Can you help with this? I think in the old rfambox I just added the release information to the box in the page and it was never actually part of the template. I presume there is a nicer way of doing this? thanks Jennifer_Rfm (talk) 10:49, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Hi Jennifer. Nice work with the new {{Infobox_rfam}}! The short answer to your question is incredibly simple. You can add any parameter you like to the template. If the template does not recognize the parameter, it will not be displayed since it just ignores it. The long answer depends very much on what purpose your had in mind for storing the version number. If you just to include the equivalent of a time stamp, a dummy parameter (for example "| rfam_version_number = x.y") or a comment imbedded in the template ("<!-- rfam version number x.y -->") will work. If there are several versions of the database, the version number can be used as parameter to link to the right version of the external database. For example, in the {{GNF_Protein_box}} template, the "Hs_GenLoc_db" and "Mm_GenLoc_db" parameters are used to link to the right version of the external database. These parameters are not displayed, but are only used to create the appropriate external URL links. Another possible reason to store the version number is to verify that the values of one or more of the other parameters in the template are "correct". See User:CheMoBot for an example of this application. If you have some other application in mind, please let me know and I will try to provide some suggestions. Cheers. Boghog (talk) 18:46, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi Boghog. Thanks for the speedy reply. We will probably go with the dummy parameter or comment imbedded in the template. This tag isn't so much for data consistency, it is more of a visual 'reminder' to us indicating which version of the database the infobox was last updated on using Rfambot. Thanks again Jennifer_Rfm (talk) 15:57, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

GO terms

Hey Boghog, on a related note, I've been playing around with the template in the sandbox trying to make it accept and display multiple GO/SO terms in a single field (i.e. without resorting to displaying GO1:, GO2: etc.) but my basic knowledge of template syntax is not up to the task. From reading the help on meta it looks like I either need nested #ifs or a #switch, but I'm quite unfamiliar with template wikimarkup so I was helping you could help me out or point me in the right direction? Any help or advice would be much appreciated! Jebus989 15:18, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

How does this look? I simplified the template so that it will now take any number of {{GO}} templates. Is this OK? You might also want to look at the Function parameter in the {{GNF Protein box}} template. Boghog (talk) 21:10, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
Great thanks, that's exactly what we were after! As a matter of personal interest, I've looked at the diffs and I don't quite understand how that's working, I would expect the grey box to now just contain a plaintext version of whatever is entered for '|GO =' but it seems like the parameter is still fed to the {{GO}} template somehow?
Yeah I was looking at the PBB components, the collapsible GO section is really nice, it may be a bit much for us though I'm not sure. A collapsible section might be needed soon anyway as the identifiers and links can get really long, especially on human ncRNAs. Anyway many thanks for the changes, looks like I was barking up the wrong tree! Jebus989 22:01, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
Concerning the display of the external Go link, it makes no difference if the {{GO}} template is included directly in {{Infobox rfam}} template as you originally had implemented it or passed to it as a parameter as I have modified it. In both cases, the GO accession number is feed to the {{GO}} template and the displayed result is exactly the same. The advantage of the original implementation is that you don't need to explicitly write out the whole template call, just the GO accession number. The disadvantage is that it is hardwired to display only one link. Boghog (talk) 03:43, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ah of course, I should have looked more closely at the test case. Thanks for the explanation Jebus989 08:23, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi Boghog and Jebus989. Thanks for the help on the Infobox rfam template. I am going to move over the edits from the sandbox into the template that allow us to insert mulitple GO terms. However, we also need to accept multiple entries for SO terms. I was going to duplicate what you have done for GO with the SO field and found the SO template Template:SO had been deleted a long time ago. I couldn't find anything else relevant instead for SO which I thought was wierd. I looked around the Biology_external_link_templates and links from that and couldn't see anything. Do you happen to know? Anyway I was possibly going to resurrect a SO template if there isn't one. Alternatively how do I replicate what you have done for SO without having a template? Apologies but template syntax is too hard Jennifer_Rfm (talk) 12:56, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi Jennifer. It looks like the there was once a SO template, but it was deleted because it wasn't used. I have taken the liberty so re-create the template (see {{SO}}) as well as create a stub Sequence Ontology. I now see the newly created stub is redundant with Open Biomedical Ontologies. Should the stub be merged into the article? Boghog (talk) 19:56, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi Boghog. w.r.t to the {{SO}} I was going to do the same - so glad you took the liberty to did it anyway. As for the new Sequence Ontology stub, I actually reckon there is good reason to have a page on the Sequence Ontology as neither the Gene Ontology or the Open Biomedical Ontologies say much about it and is becoming more widely used. I will contact some of the people involved and see if I can encourage any of them to populate the page a bit. Again thanks for your help with the template. Jennifer_Rfm (talk) 11:11, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Update on courses and ambassador needs

Hello, Ambassadors!

I wanted to give you one last update on where we are this term, before my role as Online Facilitator wraps up at the end of this week. Already, there are over 800 students in U.S. classes who have signed up on course pages this term. About 40 classes are active, and we're expecting that many more again once all the classes are up and running.

On a personal note, it's been a huge honor to work with so many great Wikipedians over the last 15 months. Thanks so much to everyone who jumped in and decided to give the ambassador concept a try, and double thanks those of you who were involved early on. Your ideas and insights and enthusiasm have been the foundation of the program, and they will be the keys the future of the program.

Courses looking for Online Ambassadors

Still waiting to get involved with a class this term, or ready to take on more? We have seven classes that are already active and need OA support, and eleven more that have course pages started but don't have active students yet. Please consider joining one or more of these pods!

Active courses that really need Online Ambassadors:

Courses that may be active soon that need Online Ambassadors:

--Sage Ross - Online Facilitator, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 23:11, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

chemdrug box

So is your new ChemDrug template ready to roll out or are you still fixing bugs? I might have to find a new page to write so I can test it out :-) Meodipt (talk) 02:26, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

I have made a start (see Template:Chembox_Drug/testcases), but so far, I can only get the first section to collapse. I will continue to work on this. Boghog (talk) 06:46, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
Is this going to be a replacement for the chembox and the drugbox, or just a box for drugs that need more chemical information than fits in the drugbox? --ἀνυπόδητος (talk) 08:47, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
Assuming I can get this to work (and at the moment, this is a big assumption), the intention is this new infobox will replace both the chembox and the drugbox. I think there is widespread support for the merger, but of course there may be disagreements concerning the implementation. Only if a majority of the Chemistry and Pharmacology Wikiproject members are happy with the implementation, would we start replacing the existing templates. Boghog (talk) 09:21, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
Sounds good. Being used to the drugbox's look, I like your box much better than the present chembox :-) --ἀνυπόδητος (talk) 09:57, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

Bioequivalence of generics

As a layman (and newcomer to this), I think the public would benefit from an explanation of what it means for a generic to fall within the 85-125% range. The FDA's AB designation of approved generics within that range begs the question: If a brand name drug has several generic versions, is it worthwhile trying to identify the particular generic version closest to 100%? If not, why is it that different formulations may have varying side effects on the same patient? But if so, consumers may be disappointed to find that the underlying studies are not publically available from the FDA except possibly through a Freedom of Information Act request (which takes months and is expensive). Garsbh (talk) 18:33, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

This is somewhat outside my area of expertise, but you ask some interesting questions, so I will take a stab at it. I think you are referring to Bioequivalence#United_States and the cited FDA Guidance for Industry. The 85-125% range refers to Cmax and Area under the curve (AUC). That is, the generic formulation should produce a Cmax (peak plasma concentration) and AUC (total plasma concentration integrated over time) that falls between 85-125% of the original formulation. This insures that the generic formulation provides the patient approximately the same peak and total concentration of the drug. Side effects most often are correlated with the Cmax and efficacy is correlated with the area under the curve above a certain threshold. If the two formulations provide approximately the same Cmax and AUC, then the efficacy and side effect profiles should be very similar. If the dose response curve is not too steep and the therapeutic ratio is high (side effect dose/efficacy dose), then there should be essentially no difference between formulations that provide 85%, 100%, or 125% of the original formulation. Only when the dose response curve is very steep or the therapeutic ratios are small would these small differences become significant. Boghog (talk) 20:07, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
As far as I know, there are narrower limits for drugs with small therapeutic ratios, at least in Europe -- something like 90-115%, but I can't find it at the moment. Common explanations for different effectiveness or side effects among generics are different excipients, the placebo effect, and reduced compliance in patients who are used to differently looking tablets. (In my experience, patients insist that they do not want the blue pills because they've always had red pills, which were better. This even happens when a manufacturer changes the package design without changing anything about the tablets.) And of course, there are still old generics which were not tested for bioequivalence under the new regulations. --ἀνυπόδητος (talk) 08:58, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks ἀνυπόδητος for your insights! This is a complicated question that is difficult to provide a general answer. The placebo effect is very real and could very well explain both the perceived and as a consequence, the real advantages of the original formulation. Another issue is the between patient variation in response. The original formulation was optimized to give the best effect in the average patient. Because of differences in bioavailability between patients (e.g., slow versus fast metabolizers), a generic formulation with either lower or higher bioavailability might in fact be better than the original formation for a subset of patients. Boghog (talk) 19:38, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
Yes, and another point is that the 80-125% interval is determined in young healthy males. No one knows what this means if the drug is taken by an elderly female patient with impaired renal function. And yet another point is that Cmax plus AUC is not really enough information when we are talking about modified release formulations. I always think it's quite astonishing that generics work so well despite all these issues. --ἀνυπόδητος (talk) 20:11, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks Boghog and ἀνυπόδητος for your explanations. This has at the very least helped me refine my own FOIA request for equivalency studies. I continue to think the relevance of these factors merits an addition to the [Drug] and [[15]]entries (which also should cross-reference each other). Fascinating!!Garsbh (talk) 16:02, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Question/help with weasel words in gene wiki

Boghog, What do you think of the current state of the article on Macrophage migration inhibitory_factor ? I undid changes that basically weaken every statement into something along the lines of "it has been suggested that maybe.." despite these statements being backed up by cited literature. The other editor than undid my revisions. I fear getting into an edit war. How do you suggest I proceed? Thanks Benjamin Good (talk) 22:07, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi Benjamin. The recommended way to proceed is to engage the editor on the article's talk page. In order to start the process, I have stated my views here. Hopefully we will be able to reach a consensus. Cheers. Boghog (talk) 06:02, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for your help, next time I will follow this strategy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by I9606 (talkcontribs) 21:45, 4 October 2011 (UTC)


Thanks for help, that looks better now. (talk) 08:09, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

And thank you. You have done a great job cleaning up and expanding buspirone. Cheers. Boghog (talk) 08:43, 9 October 2011 (UTC)


I believe the entry for pyrithyldione may have the same problem, citing the wrong patent. I know these substances are obsolete, but it should be right if its an encyclopedia. A search brings up an entry for "presidon", but this seems to be a substance without the double bond. (the 3,3-diethyl- 2,4-dioxo-tetrahydro-pyridine) so there seems to be both variations (w/wo double bond) have been around as sedatives. The drugbank and the like entries are notoriously unreliable, meanwhile they cite the Wikipedia, good grief. And then we cite them, and so forth. Have already found such a bug earlier, where simply the DB entries were bogus. I better do not see a doctor, if I still know whats good for me... :) (: what does IGOR the humpback alway say to Dr. Frankenstein, in the lab, "Yesss master", but not with me! :) (talk) 10:12, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

brings up several hits which seem to be the same substance, but from 1949. Can you confirm? Unfortunately no text/abstracts available except one fulltext fragment about agranulocytosis, found by doi. Too old this stuff. (talk) 11:01, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

ok the above tetrahydropyridine is with a double bond, I miscounted. So presidon is the right hit. remains to be found why we have a synthesis for the 6-substituted substance instead of methyprylone here, and why the book is off target there, also with the piperidine. (talk) 11:12, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for fixing that. The pyrithyldione is an intermediary of methyprylone, can you make a grafic for that too? How do you make these, what do you use as a tool? (Igor curious, master) (talk) 20:50, 9 October 2011 (UTC)


Can you please take a look at the synthesis, it shows the wrong substance. (not the same shown in stucture picture of chem box, but the 6-methyl derivative) (talk) 08:29, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

This is very strange since it looks like this apparently reliable secondary source also got the synthesis wrong. However I am fairly certain that the depicted condensation of the alpha, beta unsaturated ketone with formaldehyde will not proceed as an aldol condensation. A more reasonable reaction is the condensation of the enamine with formaldehyde resulting in hydroxymethyl group being placed alpha to the carbonyl which after reduction would lead directly to methyprylon. I would like to check the original source (PMID 13161893) but unfortunately it is apparently not available on-line. The U.S. Patent 2,680,116 takes a somewhat different route. I will see if I can find an independent secondary source that describes this synthesis and produce a corrected reaction scheme. Boghog (talk) 09:37, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

I wonder why they call the intermediate a piperidinedione with that double bond, in the book source.

The 6-substitution, I believe they got it from here

this patent by the same guys from Roche describes a synthesis of a 6-substituted similar substance, not a 5-substituted substance.

Hmm, on second thought, an enamine amide is not likely to be too reactive either (my organic chemistry is somewhat rusty). I have access to a couple of databases in the office that I do not have access at the moment that hopefully will make it much easier to sort this mess out. Boghog (talk) 10:21, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
It looks like my original intuition was correct. According to doi:10.1002/hlca.19540370630, the enamine (3,3-diethylpyridine-2,4(1H,3H)-dione) reacts with formaldehyde in the presence of sodium sulfite to give the 3,3-diethyl-5-(hydroxymethyl)pyridine-2,4(1H,3H)-dione in 80% yield. I cannot get a hold of the original Experientia paper (PMID 13161893), but the CAS abstract confirms that the reaction with formaldehye occurs on the 5-position and futhermore, no 6-methyl or 6-hydroxymethyl derivatives are even mentioned in the Experientia paper. The rest of the steps in the scheme are correct. I will create a new version of the File:Methyprylon synth.png reaction scheme correcting the mistake.
I have updated the reaction schematic (see File:Methyprylon synth.tif) and replaced the original graphic in the methyprylon with this new version. In thinking a little more about this, it is the enol/imine form of the ketone that undergoes an aldol condensation with formaldehyde to yield the 5-(hydroxymethyl)pyridine synthetic intermediate. This makes perfect sense and is much more reasonable reaction compared to what was original drawn. Boghog (talk) 18:54, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for fixing that. The pyrithyldione is an intermediary, can you make a grafic for that too? How do you make these, what do you use as a tool? (talk) 20:50, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

I will make a separate graphic for the synthesis of pyrithyldione. The program I use in ChemDraw that costs money. There are a couple of open source alternatives like BKchem, but I am not very familiar with them. Boghog (talk) 21:42, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Is the patent text above wrong? It descibes a 6-substituted example. (talk) 20:50, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

The above patent is correct. Example 3 describes a somewhat different reaction that in fact gives the 6-substituted example. Ethyl formate is replaced with methyl acetate in the first step so that an extra methyl group is attached to the carbon atom that becomes position-6 and this methyl group is carried through to the end of the synthesis. Boghog (talk) 21:42, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Do I see this correctly, that the 5-position is attacked with formaldehyde, and not the 6-position, because of keto-enol tautomerism? (Igor curious) (talk) 08:31, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Keto-enol tautomerism makes the Aldol condensation at the 5-position possible. A far less plausible mechanism is that the enamine at the 5-position attacks formaldehyde. This is not very likely since the enamine nitrogen atom is part of an amide group deactivating the enamine. In contrast, I cannot think of any reasonable reaction mechanism that would allow the reaction to proceed via the 6-position. Boghog (talk) 05:47, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Thank you. I believe I have understood. (talk) 06:47, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

IUPAC name messup at Fusidic acid

BogBot seems to have messed up the IUPAC name of Fusidic acid. Please investigate. I've restored the name by now. — Pt(T) 03:31, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for spotting the error and fixing it. I had not anticipated that carriage returns would be imbedded in a chemical name. I will modify the bot to prevent this from happening again. Boghog (talk) 05:28, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

SWL discussion

Hi Boghog! We're thinking of trying to increase the usage of the {{SWL}} template on Gene Wiki articles and recently introduced a proposal at the Village Pump explaining our motivation and soliciting community feedback. Would you be interested in checking it out and seeing what you think? The proposal is here: Expanding the use of the SWL template. We've used a general example for the Village Pump but you can imagine the utility for human gene articles as well.

Thanks, Pleiotrope (talk) 23:47, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Survey for new page patrollers


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4-Aco-DET incorrect molecular weight

Hello Boghog. It would appear the molecular mass for 4-Acetoxy-DET is off by 1 g/mol. Instead of 273.36 g/mol it should real 274.36 g/mol according to both PubChem and my own calculations.

Thanks for catching and correcting the error. Boghog (talk) 17:25, 30 October 2011 (UTC)


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[16] --Anthonyhcole (talk) 10:14, 20 November 2011 (UTC)


Thank you for reverting my section blanking on Tryptophan. I was not aware that it (turkey=tryptophan=drowsiness) is a widely held misbelief. I do however think the section should be shortened.Carstensen (talk) 01:17, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Hi. The explanation for why heavy meals cause drowsiness involves tryptophan transport and metabolism. However it is not the total serum concentration of tryptophan that matters, but rather the ratio of concentration of tryptophan to the concentrations of certain other amino acids. Hence I think this section is highly relevant to the tryptophan article and is not too long. Boghog (talk) 07:09, 25 November 2011 (UTC)


Good song! With regard to my retirement... There is an external hate speech web site with personal information that links to my wikipedia account. These guys are currently active, which is hardly a coincidence. I would not really pay attention, but this is not just a couple of jerks. For example, someone came to the College of Engineering in a city where I work and made a couple of edits pretending to be me [17]. That was done to prevent my return to the subject area related to Russia (I was topic banned). So, I would rather quit. Thank you very much for help and collaboration! You are doing great work here. Biophys (talk) 23:36, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Understood. Simple advice: don't take things like this too seriously. In the big picture, stuff like this really doesn't matter. It would be ashamed to loose valuable contributors due in one area due to conflicts in another. Boghog (talk) 18:35, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Drug class box

Hey Bog taking another look at the drug class box. Have applied it on the statin page. Wondering if we can hide the fields with nothing in them? --Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 07:57, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Done. There is one slight disadvantage of not displaying the row if the corresponding parameter is missing. If a row is displayed and the link is missing, it might encourage an editor to track down add the appropriate parameter value to the template. Boghog (talk) 10:51, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

I wish you could help me.

Hi. I did some really heavy stuff with Pymol engine lately. I tried to get similar images like yours but those colors and groups are so confusing. Is there any way you could help me with those? I admire your images on wikipedia sites... I have no idea how to get similar results. Hopefully, if you find some time to help me, please contact me and I will describe my issues.

Thanks in advance and once again, great stuff! Big thanks from all Wikipedia society! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Konieckropka (talkcontribs) 22:57, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for the complement. It would help to known more specifically what kind of structure you are trying to render and the coloring effect you are trying to achieve. Is the biopolymer (e.g., protein) a monomer or a multimer? Monomers are generally best colored using a "chainbow" coloring scheme. Multimers generally are best color using a separate solid color for each of the monomers. Simple coloring can be done using the graphical user interface (right hand side near the top, there should be a rainbow colored "C" button) which you can separately select various parts of the structure and color them using different color schemes. More complicated coloring may be easier to accomplish using a PyMol script. Again, if you can describe more precisely what kind of effect that you are trying to achieve, I can send you a few example scripts that you can modify for your own needs. Cheers. Boghog (talk) 20:41, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
Ouch, your response was fast. Thanks for that ;) OK, let me describe my problem. I know how to change colours of some structures (I do use right click context menu and all options available inside it) by selecting them... but unfortunatelly I can't achieve colours like you do. I imagine you use some scripts for that but script language of Pymol (or Jmol as well) is not documented well (at least I can't find any good tutorials). I want to get "exact" results like your image of Concanavalin A (this image is awesome!). I have no idea how to do that. Do you have a script for that or some step by step advice how to achieve it? I would be very grateful if you could send me those so I can learn it. konieckropka (talk) 21:25, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

It would be difficult to recreate File:3CNA_Concanavalin_A.png graphic using only the PyMol Gui since each of the monomers in this structure is individually colored. Below is the script that I used to create this figure. Please note that you must have the pdb filed named 3CNA_tetramer.pdb in the same directory as the script. The pdb file containing the tetramer was the taken from the PDB: 3CNA​ site, "download files/biological assembly". The standard 3CNA PDB file contains only the monomer. I hope this helps. Boghog (talk) 06:20, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

set auto_zoom, off

set antialias    = 1    

# set stick_radius       =   0.20
set cartoon_tube_radius  =   0.40
set cartoon_smooth_loop  =   0
set cartoon_sampling     =  25
set spec_power           = 200
set spec_refl            =   1.5
set cartoon_transparency =   0.0
set cartoon_flat_sheets  =   0
set cartoon_smooth_loops =   0
set dash_width           =   3
set dash_gap             =   0.25
set dash_radius          =   0.2
set dash_length          =   0.2
set dash_round_ends      =   on
set depth_cue            =   0
set ray_trace_fog        =   0
set sphere_scale         =   1

cmd.hide("everything", "complex")

set_view (\
     0.125021607,   -0.992153525,    0.000000000,\
     0.992153525,    0.125021785,    0.000000000,\
     0.000000000,    0.000000000,    1.000000000,\
     0.000000000,    0.000000000, -192.770080566,\
    -0.000003815,   -0.000015259,    0.000000000,\
   149.219680786,  236.320480347,    0.000000000 )"backbone", "complex & name c+o+n+na")
cmd.disable("backbone")"sidechains", "complex & ! backbone ")
cmd.disable("sidechains")"metals", "elem cu+zn")
#cmd.disable("metals")"spheres",  "elem ca")"spheres",  "elem mn")

# util.chainbow("complex")

cmd.color("red",        "chain A")
cmd.color("magenta",    "chain B")
cmd.color("green",      "chain C")
cmd.color("cyan",       "chain D")

cmd.color("gold",    "elem ca")
cmd.color("grey90",  "elem mn")

#cmd.color("yellow",  "ligand & elem s")
#cmd.color("red",     "ligand & elem o")
#cmd.color("blue",    "ligand & elem n")
#cmd.color("organge", "ligand & elem p")
#cmd.color("grey90",  "ligand & elem c")

set cartoon_fancy_helices, on
set cartoon_smooth_loops, on
#set cartoon_side_chain_helper, on"cartoon")


All files in category Unclassified Chemical Structures listed for deletion

One or more of the files that you uploaded or altered has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it/them not being deleted. Thank you.

Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of MGA73 (talk) at 17:42, 28 November 2011 (UTC).

Typo in Caffeine synthesis figure

Hi Boghog, thanks for the excellent reaction diagram.

Shouldn't the last step's product be called 1,3,7-trimethylxanthine and not 1,3,7-tiimethylxanthine?

Thanks for spotting the spelling error. I have corrected it. Boghog (talk) 18:55, 29 November 2011 (UTC)


Hi. My group and I have been editting the TBR1 page in wikipedia for our Neuroscience class. We noticed that you had edited it severaal times and would appreciate any advice you have on how to make it better. We are trying to make it a Good Article according to Wikipedia standards. Thanks.

JaimeeDavis (talk) 21:01, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Hello Boghog, I am working with JaimeeDavis to edit the TBR1 page. We recently took all of your advice as well as that of our peers and edited the page. We changed a lot of the structure around, reworded some things, added more information, and added a picture of the protein. Overall, I think it is well organized, thorough, and covers a broad spectrum. We nominated this page as a Good Article. Seeing that you seem to be an expert on the topic, if you find the time we would really appreciate a review of our nomination. You have been such a great help. Thank you.

Grant.vandervoort (talk) 00:59, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Hi. I am a bit busy in real life at the moment but I should have some time this weekend to start a formal Good Article review. Cheers. Boghog (talk) 23:58, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Your inappropriate behavior

This is your last warning. The next time you remove or blank page content or templates from Wikipedia, as you did at Macrophage migration inhibitory factor, you may be blocked from editing without further notice. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elias Jack (talkcontribs) 17:01, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

I have responded in detail to your objections on the article's talk page. In particular, your accusation that I have a conflict of interest is groundless. If you have further objections, please continue the discussion there. Thank you. Boghog (talk) 23:55, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification

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Nomination for deletion of Template:PD-USGov-NCBI-PubChem

Ambox warning pn.svgTemplate:PD-USGov-NCBI-PubChem has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 10:01, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

I was thinking this one was better as it contains inline refs Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 20:37, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for pointing out the npp link which I agree is better. Cheers. Boghog (talk) 20:49, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

File:Protein C 1D schematic.png

Excellent diagram! I just noticed its inclusion. Great work. -- Rmrfstar (talk)