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December 15

Statistics by the United Nations and the Australian Bureau of Statistics (cont.)

I am continuing from my last question.

So, according to the United Nations, 2000-2005 means from the beginning of the year 2000 to the end of the year 2004 and 1950-1970 means from the beginning of the year 1965 to the end of the year 1969? So 2000-2005 means from 1 January 2000 to 1 January 2005 and 1965-1970 means from 1 Januray 1965 to 1 January 1970? Is this what they mean?

So, according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, 1901-1910 means from the beginning of the year 1901 to the end of the year 1910 and 1999-2001 means from the beginning of the year 1999 to the end of the year 2001? So 1901-1910 means from 1 January 1901 to 1 January 1911 and 1999-2001 means from 1 January 1999 to 1 January 2002? Is this what they mean?

So the United Nations doesn't have any data or records at all for life expectancy, infant mortality rate, or death rate in any one particular year, one year period, part of a year, or less than one year period? So the Australian Bureau of Statistics doesn't have any data or records at all for life expectancy in any one particular year, one year period, part of a year, or less than one year period?

When the United Nations says the 2000 Revision of World Population Prospects for 2000-2005, what does that mean? Does it mean from the beginning of 2005 to a point in time in 2005 before the revision is made that year? And the same is for the 2001 and 2002 revisions for 2000-2005, the 1965, 1966, and 1967 revisions for 1965-1970, and other revisions of World Population Prospects?

Bowei Huang (talk) 00:28, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Does your statement "according to the United Nations" means you've found a statistical definition? If yes, then you don’t need to ask how the UN defines 2000-05. If no, then as someone who deals with UN-type statistics for most of every working day, I would say the data refer to the complete year of 2000 as a starting point – not the first day, but the entire period – to the complete year of 2005 as an ending point.

Governments conduct census surveys every five to ten years, and the UN is almost totally dependent on national surveys for their data. While it certainly is possible to estimate what the life expectancy (etc.) might be in a given year, or even on a given day, the questions of accuracy and certainty overwhelm any use one might wish to put such information.

Some governments might actually conduct a partial survey every year, in which case there might be annual data published in their websites and publications. But, since a full-blown survey takes many weeks or months, it is simply not feasible to have survey data of less than a year’s validity. In most cases.

As the very first sentence of the very first Google hit for “The 2000 Revision of World Population Prospects” indicates, the study “Presents the 2001 Revision of the official estimates and projections of the size and growth of urban and rural populations for the 228 countries or areas of the world for the period 1950-2030.”

I hope that answers your question.DOR (HK) (talk) 06:40, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm trying to figure out what you want but haven't any clear impression. If life expectancy was calculated on a particular day of the year it could differ markedly from another day because there was a flu going round killing old people on one of the days. You need the smoothing effect of at least a year of figures to get something meaningful. And the figures don't change that rapidly so it makes very little difference if the time period covered starts in July or January. Complete years of one kind or another would be usual though if only to make the maths easier about the smoothing. Dmcq (talk) 16:10, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

But then wouldn't the periods of statistics by the United Nations actually overlap? I mean, if 2000-2005 means from the beginning of 2000 to the end of 2005 and 2005-2010 means from the beginning of 2005 to the end of 2010, wouldn't the periods overlap? So the periods of statistics used by the United Nations actually overlaps?

Are these periods the only ones the United Nations uses for these statistics? Are these periods here the only one one the Australian Bureau of Statistics uses for life expectancy ? Are they?

No, that doesn't answer it. I am just asking if these is what these periods mean. Are they what they mean? Are they?

Bowei Huang (talk) 00:00, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Well I just had a look on the web and found UN figures for 2005-2010 so I think it is pretty clear these are estimates rather than based on directly the specific years. But it makes little difference as the figures change only slowly. I still have no idea what you are getting at because you seem very worked up about this and I can't see it mattering much. I feel like someone asked to find the height of the trees in an estate when what the person is really interested in is whether they can fall on the house. Dmcq (talk) 01:11, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

The Australian data clearly overlaps: 1994-1996, then 1995-1997, 1996-1998. So, if you were born in 1996, there are three possible outcomes: 74.5 years, 75.8 and 76.1 (respectively). My guess is that these are averages. DOR (HK) (talk) 05:29, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Though you should really use the current year and life tables to see how long you now expect to live. If you've just reached 74.5 it doesn't mean your going to fall over in the next week. Dmcq (talk) 12:45, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Traveling to NYC

I'm planning on driving to New York City in January with three friends. I'm trying to find the cheapest hotel option for three nights in the New York area. I’m thinking that it would be cheaper to stay in New Jersey and take a bus into the city. Can anyone with some knowledge of the area recommend a good place to stay? Is it cheaper to stay in NJ? I know a hostel or couch surfing would be cheaper but unfortunately my friends are lame and not considering those options. Thanks for any help!--ChesterMarcol (talk) 04:52, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Define "good". I have stayed at a motel near the Newark Airport and it was reasonably priced. Not exactly a scenic area, it was basically smack in the middle of a huge warehouse district, so it was strictly utilitarian. But you may find places to stay in that area if you are willing to drive into the city. --Jayron32 04:57, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

By good I mean as cheap as possible, but not so cheap that the rooms are rented by the hour. I was hoping to find something near a bus stop so we wouldn't have to drive into the city and pay to park and wipe out all the cost savings.--ChesterMarcol (talk) 05:01, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

For cheap options both in and out of city, you could try "name your own price" on Priceline - can be very cheap if you book some time ahead - or subletting an apartment, on Craigslist, which I imagine could get you something decently priced when you are four people. Some of the places around Newark can be hard to reach with public transport, though they might have a shuttle to the airport from where you can take the bus or train. I'd start with the route plan for subway and local trains here and look for something close to that (no; I'd pay some more to live in Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens, or Jersey City, but that's not what you asked...) Jørgen (talk) 07:48, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

I would recommend hotels.com. You can look at other people's ratings, as well as sort the choices by price. 99.166.95.142 (talk) 17:02, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Born in NYC and living in NJ, I would not recommend Hotels.com. Rather, check out things like Red Roof Inn or Motel 6, which probably offer the lowest rates and would not be considered classy enough for Hotels.com. DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 19:35, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Am I allowed to recommend specific hotels? I have a few ideas for hotels in Brooklyn. I also recommend using tripadvisor.com. --Blue387 (talk) 12:16, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

I don't see anything that would say you can't recommend specific hotels. Maybe put it on my talk page if someone gets angry, I would appreciate it. The best deal I have found is at the Best Western in Long Island City.--ChesterMarcol (talk) 05:58, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Digital camera recomendations?

I'm looking to get someone a digital camera for Christmas. I really want to stay in the $150 ball park. Currently, I am looking at the Olympus Stylus FE 5010 and 5020 (12 MP, 5x optical zoom). What specs should I consider when purchasing? Do you folks have any recomendations? Thank you.Chrisbystereo (talk) 07:59, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

To get a handle on desirable features and tradeoffs among makes and models in your price range, I recommend this Digital Camera Buying Guide from Consumers Union, or this one from PCMag. A manufacturer's website will give a lot of details about its models but obviously not much by way of comparison. -- Deborahjay (talk) 08:29, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

The site dpreview.com has lots of indepth reviews of cameras (though focusses more on SLR ones). I also use TrustedReviews as they often do quite good reviews too. I would also recommend searching for photos taken by the camera on Flickr and see what sort of quality the camera is capable of. I know that's a very subjective one, but there's nothing like seeing the output of a camera to get a good idea for what it's capable of. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 09:33, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

In general - you want something with a really good lens, even if it has less megapixels. My son's 4 megapixel SLR (which can take professional three inch lenses) produces VASTLY better photos than my 12 megapixel handi-cam with it's crappy half-inch lens. You also want something with as little shutter lag as possible. There is nothing worse than trying to snatch a photo of some action and finding that there is a half second delay between pushing the button and the photo being snapped. However, a lot depends on what you want. There is a lot of difference between a "Point and shoot" camera where everything is automated and you don't have to think - and a fancy "pro" camera with a gazillion tweakable things. Don't get the kind you don't realistically want! SteveBaker (talk) 15:54, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Just this (from a DSLR owner) - one, every 'pro' camera has an auto mode (I think), and two, once you get past the point-and-shoot phase to the 'tweak it all' phase, it's here that the fun starts. I would never go back to a smallish quasi-camera, even at the cost of having to lug my three-pound monster with me - it's all in the picture quality. And the authentic sound of the shutter ;) --Ouro (blah blah) 17:51, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

And don't forget maintenance and repairs. Most of the high street photography shops can't help and they charge an arm and a leg to send the camera back to the manufacturer - at a significant add-on price. I am fortunate to live in Scotland near Glasgow where there is a wonderful camera repair workshop about 5 storeys above the expensive High Street near Central Station. Last time I was there it was to have my broken battery compartment door fixed - with a 6 months guarantee - for a very reasonable price. And when asked which camera gave the best service before needing an inexpensive repair, the engineer announced without hesitation, "Canon - whatever the model". 92.21.229.101 (talk) 18:13, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

One piece of advice you probably already know. If it's a choice between one with 3x optical and 10x digital zoon and one with 10x optical and 3x digital zoom, go for the one with the best optical zoom. Digital zoom is great for image through the viewfinder, but is next to useless as far as the final image is concerned. The shutter lag point and several of the others raised are also very good ones. Grutness...wha? 00:41, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Wikia

Can we make money from creating pages/articles on Wikia? Arteyu ? _{Blame it on me !} 12:02, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

No. The owners of Wikia, Wikia, Inc., would, as they make money through advertising. ~ Amory (u • t • c) 14:37, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Well, it's not impossible. Wikia is a hosting site for Wiki's of all kinds. You could (for example) use a Wiki as a place to discuss interesting uses for some commercial product that you'd make and sell - and the Wiki would serve (indirectly) as advertising and product support. Perhaps you could even pursuade a company to pay you for creating a Wiki about their product - everyone loves "grass roots support". For example, there is a 'Call of Duty' computer game Wiki on Wikia. Doubtless, that is helping Activision to make money. If you had started that - maybe you could have gotten Activision to pay you for doing it. But if you're expecting there to be some place where you sit down and write an article and someone hands you $10 for doing it - forget it! SteveBaker (talk) 15:41, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

See also MyWikiBiz. --Ouro (blah blah) 16:15, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

László Polgár

From the article, how can you be an expert on chess theory but a mediocre player? I can understand being an expert in baseball theory, for instance, but being no good at the game, because it takes physical ability. But chess is a mental game. 20.137.18.50 (talk) 13:39, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Maybe he can't stand the pressure of actually playing, in the one-on-one game situation. It's something that happens to sports players in all sports: performance stress. --TammyMoet (talk) 13:41, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

On the same theme, how many great coaches in a sport were also great players. The things it takes to teach someone are not always the same things it takes to perform them. The same could be true for both physical and intellectual games. --Jayron32 14:03, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Or he could be amazing at chess, but he takes a long time, so he can not do well at timed games. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 14:54, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Think of it this way: an expert musicologist might easily be a mediocre musician, an great art critic might not be able to draw a straight line with a ruler, and a terrific auto mechanic could be a lousy driver.

It works the other way around, too. Capablanca was non-existant as a theoretician. The first chess book he read was one he wrote. He kept up with the latest chess theory by having innovations played against him in the early rounds of tournaments, and presenting improvements in the later rounds. Of course folk such as Morphy, Steinitz, and Lasker were both cutting edge theoreticians and great practical players.

László's strength is as a coach, not as a player (although he's not all that bad); as a theoretician he's okay, but he's certainly not in Tarrasch, Nimzovich, or Botvinnik's league. (Nice enough guy, though ... I know him slightly. Very slightly.) B00P (talk) 06:51, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Travelling from Mass to Florida next week

My brother and I are taking a road trip from Mass. to West Palm Beach, FL on an extremely limited budget. We rented the cheapest economy car and with unlimited mileage. We plan to spend xmas with relatives but on our way down, does anyone suggest any sites to see? What should we bring with us? I think we would be mostly on I95. --Reticuli88 (talk) 13:58, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

There are any number of places near I-95 that would be of interest, depending on what you want to see. You could start with our article on Interstate 95 to narrow some candidates and then further investigate on tourism-oriented sites. I recommend you grab a good atlas and quarters for a laundromat, and make sure you know how to fix a flat tire with the car's emergency jack. — Lomn 14:22, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Well, it depends on how long you want to take. There's tons of stuff to see between Massachusetts and Washington D.C. Most of everything south of Washington D.C. on I-95 is pretty boring (except South of the Border, a must stop, if you ask me). If you have an extra day to spend anywhere, I would definately recommend spending a day at the Smithsonian Institution. There are a few must-see's at the Smithsonian:

• The Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center (aka the Air and Space Annex) located at Dulles Airport. Its a HUGE museum with lots of really big planes and spacecraft and missles and stuff that wouldn't fit in the main Air and Space museum. Really cool stuff. Since its so far away from the rest of the Smithsonian, it would probably be all you do for the day. But the upside is that you could spend like half a day here, and still get some driving in, since its right off of Virginia State Route 267, which is a short trip off of the Beltway and easy access.
• The National Museum of American History and the National Museum of Natural History. Parking is rough in the city, so your best bet is to find a metro station in the Suburbs and take the train in. I'm usually coming from the south, so I use Pentagon City Station, because of the ample parking and ease of access. If you are coming from the North, you may find a decent stop on that side of the city. Take the metro and get off at the Federal Triangle stop, which is the closest to these museums. They are right next to each other, and if you go here, be sure to check out the Old Post Office Pavilion which has a pretty good food court for lunch, and is also an easy walk.

If you have a day to spend somewhere else, Charleston, South Carolina is pretty neat. The old historic part of the city will remind you a bit of old Boston. Get the tour of Fort Sumter if you stop here.

As far as driving goes, some good things to keep in mind is that the I-95 auxiliary routes actually usually make better bypasses of their cities than I-95 itself. For example, you'll probably want to take Interstate 895 (Maryland) to get through Baltimore and Interstate 295 (Virginia) around Richmond, Virginia. There's also some tricks I have to get around NYC, but its pretty complicated, so I'll save that for another time. --Jayron32 14:19, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

We will only be traveling for a week. Washington DC sounds good. Is it expensive? We are talking about chips and soda only for lunch and dinner!--Reticuli88 (talk) 14:29, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

The Smithsonian museums in DC are all free, so your expenses would be parking, metro fare and food if you want to eat and souvenirs if you are interested in those. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 14:53, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Note that the Udvar-Hazy Center is free but the only way in is by paying very expensive parking fees. In my experience, if you show up very late in a day (a few hours before they close) they don't seem to care about charging you for parking, though. (And note that Udvar-Hazy is technically "huge", but there isn't TOO much too look at compared to the other Smithsonians, because the things to look at are pretty huge as well. It is a cool place to see planes up close, though. If it were me, though, and I had to make a choice, I'd choose the downtown air and space museum. If you are not a plane nut, or don't have time to kill before you head into Dulles, Udvar-Hazy is not as interesting, IMO.) --Mr.98 (talk) 18:58, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Well, it's no more than you'd pay for downtown parking and/or suburban parking + metro fair for two into the city. You're not going to pay any more, by the end of the day, to visit the Udvar-Hazy Center, but it may be an easier "in and out" if you are trying to squeeze it in on a day of travel. --Jayron32 21:28, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

An interesting -- and free -- place to visit is Hollywood Cemetery in Richmond, resting place of two U.S. presidents and Jefferson Davis. Kind of freaky as a northerner, though, to see the Confederate flags people still put at the graves of their ancestors. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 04:15, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Stock markets: real time information for free

Why isn't any free real time stock market prices available over the net? (at least I think so) Technically, it shouldn't be a big deal to offer them. Many sites are already offering delayed quotes anyway.--Mr.K. (talk) 14:02, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

It's not a big deal technologically, but it's a big deal in terms of market value. A lot of money is spent getting real-time prices ahead of the freely-available delayed quotes. Someone would have to forego that revenue stream to provide real-time prices freely, and no one's business plan provides for that at present. — Lomn 14:14, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Well that's not entirely true There's plenty of sites you can sign-up to and access real-time prices without ever paying. iii (interactive investor) allow you to sign-up without a cost. Also don't Yahoo-finance do 'real-time' prices? 194.221.133.226 (talk) 14:35, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Checking Yahoo, I find "Quotes delayed, except where indicated otherwise. Delay times are 15 mins for NASDAQ, NYSE and Amex." prominently displayed. They'll offer you real-time prices at a cost. Interactive Investor prominently displays the same 15 minute delay. — Lomn 14:42, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Yahoo does offer real-time quotes for free. In the detailed quote page, immediately under the stock name ("BERKSHIRE HATH HLD B (NYSE: BRK-B)") in the center of the page is a real-time quote, prefaced by "Real-Time" and with the current time (9:48 am as I write this). It differs slightly from the delayed quote which is in the top-right part of the page, above the chart (9:33 am). There is also a "Real-Time" link in the navigation panel on the left. -- Coneslayer (talk) 14:52, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Some of Google Finance's are real time (See here). This is partly because of the technical limitations of such a transfer, and probably more importantly, a desire to not make the exchange itself pointless. Traders like to feel "special" (don't we all?). - Jarry1250 ^{[Humorous? Discuss.]} 14:56, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

It's not about feeling 'special'; it's about the exchange making money. The exchange charges substantial amounts of hard cash for their real-time data, and they see no good reason to cut off that revenue stream. Some websites offer free real-time quotes for a small number of stocks or for a limited number of quotes per user; these are primarily teasers to plug their for-pay offerings. (In principle, I suppose there might also be some websites which cover the costs of a real-time quotes service through other revenue streams like on-site advertising or by selling their subscriber lists. Either way, someone, somewhere, is coughing up cash to the exchange to get those real-time numbers.) TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:17, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Investors can have real time prices through online brokers, such as Schwab. Free, except, of course, for commissions if you trade. --DThomsen8 (talk) 12:36, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

In the "because they can charge a lot for real-time info" note, there is a current business model among some traders that uses computer trading algorithms to make rapid trades. The thought is that by beating your competitors to the bid when a stock starts to swing, you'll be able to eke out a little extra per trade, which adds up. It's gotten to the point where even the millisecond delays involved in sending the trade over the internet is too much - investment companies pay lots of money to co-locate their trading servers in the same building with the ones which process the transactions, so they can respond several milliseconds faster. -- 128.104.112.87 (talk) 20:00, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Wildwood, New Jersey is on Mud Island

I was told by someone who lives there that Wildwood, New Jersey, is on Mud Island. I have been unable to find a good source for this information online. Can someone provide a reliable source that I can use in the articles on Wildwood, North Wildwood, etc.? --DThomsen8 (talk) 18:17, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Did you try Google? Typing the unsurprising phrase "Mud Island New Jersey" into google got me this stuff: [1]. Worth a shot... --Jayron32 18:25, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Wildwood, New Jersey and three other municipalities on the same island are on the shore of the Atlantic Ocean in Cape May County, New Jersey. Only one of the links on the page from Google is a possible link to Wildwood. The others are on the Delaware River, or way north of Wildwood, or even in other states. The only link possibly for Wildwood shows a photo of a roller coaster on "Mud Island," and does not say Wildwood. Is that to be considered a reliable and informative link for the Wildwood, New Jersey article? Not good enough for me to add to the Wildwood article. --DThomsen8 (talk) 00:35, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Geography Questions belong here?

Do Geography questions belong here, or over in Science like Geology? --DThomsen8 (talk) 18:19, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Here is as good as anywhere. What's the question? --Jayron32 18:23, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Maybe that was the question. Around here, meta-questions can also be considered questions in their own right. We don't discriminate; we're not questionist. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 19:17, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Fabulous, Jack! DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 19:33, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

If this is the geography joke question it belongs on the geography joke reference desk. Bus stop (talk) 20:28, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Humanities. --KageTora - SPQW - (影虎) (talk) 22:57, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

If geography questions belong in Humanities, maybe I should change the list under to Humanities to include geography. Oh, and I asked the question about the proper place for geography questions because I just asked a geography question in the above section about Mud Island. --DThomsen8 (talk) 00:39, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

That puts Dthomsen8 firmly between a rock and a hard place. . .DOR (HK) (talk) 05:34, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Maybe between two places, or even three. My opinion is now that Geography questions should be under Science, not Humanities or Miscellaneous. --DThomsen8 (talk) 01:28, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

If we don't know because there are so many different kinds of Geography questions, then in the absence of its own desk, I'd think Miscellaneous would be best. I can answer a few geography questions, but I never visit the Science Desk. There might similarly be geologists, geophysicists and meteorologists who never visit the Humanities Desk.—— Shakescene (talk) 04:42, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

fastest

Which is the fastest (save cost/save time ) way to tell a girl , cut the crab, "lets hump"... am in a hurry... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.122.36.6 (talk) 19:14, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

You could always try "fancy a fuck?" --TammyMoet (talk) 19:23, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Why don't you just say, "Cut the crab (?), lets hump", as you suggested? I am sure it is going to be as effective as anything else provided here. --Mr.98 (talk) 19:27, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

If you really wanted to save time and money, it would be much faster to slap yourself in the face (and optionally kick yourself in the balls) than try that approach. DJ Clayworth (talk) 19:28, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Reminds me of something I read about in a book of unbelievable pick-up lines that have actually been used by real people. The guy says to the girl "How about we get out here, get some pizza, go back to my place and fuck". She slaps his face. He says "What's the matter? Don't you like pizza?" -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 19:35, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

It depends on the reason you are in a hurry. If it is because you have a dental or doctor appointment at a short point away, it is expected that a potential paramour will include reference to the medical professional's license number. But if the courting stranger is in a rush due to pressing professional work, it is the general procedure to note the concept behind the project you are working on. Many daring Dartfishes use prerecorded messages for these purposes. Bus stop (talk) 19:39, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Feynman of course made a similar recommendation. "You just ask them". Women are not an alien species and do not need to be addressed in a special language. 213.122.34.45 (talk) 10:42, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

I would definitely steer clear of all references to the crabs. SteveBaker (talk) 22:03, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Or the philosophy student who invited his girl to join him in a conversation about the hereafter whilst on a moonlit drive in the remote countryside. "The hereafter?" she queried. "Yeah" he replied, "if you're not here after the same thing i'm here after, you'll be here after i'm gone". 92.21.229.101 (talk) 20:09, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Hold a gun to her head. 78.144.207.126 (talk) 23:28, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

If you're in such a hurry, I suggest a date with Miss Palm instead. As to the young lady I think she'll be better of declining you, on the basis of your classy performance here. AlexTiefling (talk) 23:51, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Preface the asking by following the advice of this old proverb, "On Ice-Breaking", by Ogden Nash: "Candy is dandy but liquor is quicker." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:53, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Now hold on, why are you advising young ladies against casual sex? Are you performing some kind of public service in saying that? Are you sure? Even if 203.122.36.6 isn't very classy, he must have a female counterpart (or feasibly, be female). The meme that says women don't get horny diminishes the quality of life for everybody. 213.122.34.45 (talk) 10:22, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm saying that it's the young lady's business whether she's interested in our OP in that way, and that some of the alarming suggestions being made here with a greater or lesser degree of seriousness (firearms, liquor, bribery) don't take that into account. Indeed, they could easily be seen as tending in the opposite direction, and that would be bad. To quote Woody Allen: Don't knock masturbation - it's sex with someone you love. AlexTiefling (talk) 13:44, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm surprised no one has mentioned cold, hard cash. Start laying large denomination bills in her hand, and when you have her attention pop the question. Continue laying down the cash until she either agrees or proves that she has at least a bit of taste by [r]ejecting your worthless butt. DOR (HK) (talk) 05:41, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

"!"! So many people never read the question - the OP wrote "(save cost/save time )" which rules out spending much/any money. 78.144.247.113 (talk) 12:08, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Try one of those personals site directed at sex? There seems to be a lot of them although I'm not sure in India. Presuming you're referring to this type crab instead of the SB one, may I suggest you take care? Sure some girls may like a good seafood dinner but if she's allergic I doubt she'll appreciate it. Also I believe it's more common to crush the crab (usually with a hammer), if you try to cut it without crushing (unless it's preshelled) you'll probably be at the restaurant all day leaving little time for 'humping'. Just a thought... Nil Einne (talk) 13:06, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

If you're in some sort of long-term relationship with the girl, it should be fairly simple to tell her this, and you are more likely to get a favourable response. But I honestly can't imagine that is the case here... Adam Bishop (talk) 19:17, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Well if he's buying her seafood dinners it may be a fairly established relationship. On the other hand he may just be rich or perhaps he buys crabs for all his 'dates'. Actually do we even know if the OP is male? Nil Einne (talk) 17:06, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

yes, in a name

which is the most unique baby name in this world? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.122.36.6 (talk) 19:16, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm sure there are quite a lot of contenders for the "name that only one baby has" prize. --Mr.98 (talk) 19:26, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

(ec) Not wishing to be pedantic here, but you need to frame your question a little differently. Unique means there is only one example. There must be many made-up names that have only ever been used once, so none of them is more or less "unique" than any other. Are you interested in any names that have been used extremely rarely (if not necessarily uniquely)? Or are you after names that are particularly laugh-worthy? It's completely subjective - but we can at least come up with some examples that might fit that bill. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 19:31, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Looking for Wikipedia articles about people with unusual names? Try Wikipedia:Unusual articles#Names. --Jayron32 21:19, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Here is a list of questionably-named celebrity children, and here is our own list of unusual personal names; surely there is only one Tarquin Fin-tim-lin-bin-whin-bim-lim-bus-stop-F'tang-F'tang-Olé-Biscuitbarrel! --Sean 21:19, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

I don't believe there has ever been a baby called that, though. Algebraist 21:48, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

THere has been a baby called Brfxxccxxmnpcccclllmmnprxvclmnckssqlbb11116 however. Well, until the gubmint put a stop to it. --Jayron32 21:52, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Could you provide the pronunciation for that? What do you know? It is actually given in the article! 65.121.141.34 (talk) 21:59, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Although Tarquin F*l wasn't ever the name of a baby - he changed his name long after his birth! But for sure, there must be hundreds of thousands of made-up names given to babies - all of which qualify as "most unique". You might argue that an even more unique name would be a "baby name" that hasn't yet been given to any baby - but there are an infinite number of them! SteveBaker (talk) 22:00, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

According to Freakonomics, nearly 30 percent of black girls born in California receive a name that no other baby in the state received in the same year! (More than 100,000 "white" girls are born each year in the state, and with whites making up less than 50% of the population, we can assume at least 200,000 girls are born each year in the state. I'm too lazy to go surfing through the Census's website to get the exact number.) -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:48, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

A side point that I'm amazed no-one has pointed out so far - there's no such thing as a "most unique" anything. Either something's unique (only one case) or it's not unique. There are probably quite a few names which only one person has - there may well be quit a lot that only one person ever has had. These names would all be equally unique. Some of them may well be mentioned in this article. Grutness...wha? 00:35, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

so you'd disagree with Elaine about their being big coincidences and small coincidence then? :-) 194.221.133.226 (talk) 09:08, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Ooops - sorry Jack, I see you are just as pedantic as I :) Grutness...wha? 00:36, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Not at all, my trans-Tasman friend. I don't see anything remotely "pedantic" about asking someone to be clearer about what they're asking about when the current formulation of their question could mean many things (but almost certainly not including the thing that it appears to mean on a literal reading of the word "unique"). And it's not pedantic to point out that this response is not being pedantic. I prefaced my first response with "not wishing to be pedantic here ..." because some people would undoubtedly say "Well, obviously he didn't mean the word unique to be taken literally, so why make a big thing out of it; just answer what he obviously meant". To which I would ask "Just exactly what did he obviously mean?" - because there's no way of knowing without clarification. The media often uses "unique" to mean things like different, unusual, exciting, interesting, weird, bizarre, strange, wonderful, noteworthy, newsworthy, independent et many al, and maybe one of these is what "unique" is meant to mean here. Or maybe not. -- (Jack of Oz) 202.142.129.66 (talk) 01:07, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

I tend to use the word "unique" euphemistically. If asked by the wife to comment on a pie she made, for example, I might describe it as "unique". I usually get away with it. Si Trew (talk) 08:52, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

People often say "unique" when they mean "unusual" or "rare". That can be either good or bad. There are other ways to say it. According to How to Speak Minnesotan, those folks would express it as, "That's different." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:36, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Adolph Hitler started as an unremarkable baby whose full name in retrospect fits most meanings of the word unique. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 14:48, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Yes. The baby Adolph Hitler grew up to become Adolf Hitler. It was obviously the spelling change that did all the damage. If only they'd left it the way it was.  :) -- 202.142.129.66 (talk) 02:15, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

I don't understand the reason for the prevalence of that particular misspelling. I suppose I'd understand if Adolph were a common name in English; then it would be easy for people to get confused (the spelling George Cantor sets my teeth on edge, but I guess it's comprehensible). But when was the last time you met an Adolph? No doubt it was a more common name before Hitler than it is now, but I don't think it was ever actually common; the only one I can think of offhand is Adolph Coors. --Trovatore (talk) 03:49, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Harpo Marx was an Adolph. Adolph Rupp. Dolph Camilli. Adolph Caesar ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:13, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Those examples are ... obscure. Harpo I had heard of, of course, but never that he'd ever been called "Adolph". The rest I'd just plain never heard of. --Trovatore (talk) 21:18, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Adolph Rupp is one of the most famous names in college basketball. Whether a name is obscure or not, depends on what interests you follow. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:19, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Dolph Lundgren. Dolf Luque. Adolfo Phillips. Adolphe Menjou. However, most of those guys were born before WWII, and many of them before WWI. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:25, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

The only one of those I've ever heard of is Lundgren, and his bio makes no mention of him ever having been named Adolph. Apparently he was born Hans. --Trovatore (talk) 09:24, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

ph is probably a more common spelling for the rough phonetic sound it represents in English Nil Einne (talk) 15:02, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Say what? As far as I know it's exactly the same sound as f, the sound is essentially invariant across words and positions in words, and surely you're not claiming there are more English words with a ph than with an f? --Trovatore (talk) 20:56, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

In some languages, there are two close sounds which could be differentiated. There is a "bi-labial" f sound and a "labio-dental" f sound (using both lips, or using the bottom lip and the teeth). Though the difference is non-existant in standard English phonology, it doesn't mean that the sounds don't exist, or could not be differentiated here using ph or f. --Jayron32 21:35, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Sure, they could be, but they aren't. --Trovatore (talk) 21:37, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Yes I do believe it's more common. Think of Joseph, Ralph, Rudolph and maybe Randolph. What common English names end in a single F? Josef, Ralf, Rudolf, and perhaps Randolf are almost definitely less common then those in English. Rolf & Wolf [2] maybe but Rolf isn't that common I don't think and Wolf probably doesn't have the same connotation due to the animal and also doesn't appear to be some common as a given name looking at Wolf (name) (how many here even recognise anyone there with the given name Wolf?) Definitely IMHO Joseph is obviously way more common and a biblical name to boot (and many people would probably be able to name a Joseph without even looking at our article, e.g. the current US Vice-president). For Ralph you have the Simpsons character and I suspect many can name some real life Ralph without looking e.g. Ralph Lauren and if you're in the US, Ralph Nader. Not sure about Rudolph but you have the red nose reindeer to think about and are you really so surprised when people talk of Rudolph Hess? [3] suggests the change from f to ph for name endings happened because people thought it seemed nicer at some stage. Whatever the case we stuck with it and so names ending in ph are more common in English and so it seems natural to some to spell Adolf Adolph. In fact Adolph was probably the more common spelling in English anyway before WW2 even if it was never really that common a name. Nil Einne (talk) 15:05, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Ah, what you mean is that ph is a more common way to write the f sound at the end of a word, is that correct? I suppose that might be so, and possibly even relevant, though I don't think there's any significant difference in the sound of a final f versus an initial or medial f. --Trovatore (talk) 20:18, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

I admit my point was poorly explained at first and not something I really thought about in detail. But it's not so much the sound, which may or may not be relevant more the way people think/remember how to spell such words. As the second/last external ref highlights while you may be able to understand why the specific spellings arose, as with so many aspects of English it's not something that really make sense. But humans like patterns and so it's likely one of the ways they remember how to spell words is by seeing them. There's a pattern that most human names commonly encountered in English use ph for the sound at the end so it may commonly be automatic for some they spell Adolph the same way. It's true Wolf doesn't really fit into this pattern but it's probably not so much seen as a name of a person but as the name of the animal. The point about sound was just to emphasise that both are legitimate spellings (as is gh) for the sound in English. Nil Einne (talk) 14:53, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

KNOCK! KNOCK! Who's there? Adolf. Adolf who? Adolf ball hit me in de nose an' dats why I dalk like diss. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 23:43, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

how does a food court help people????

 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 164.116.225.227 (talk) 20:45, 15 December 2009 (UTC) 

It's where they sentenced the Hamburglar to death. Do your own homework. Matt Deres (talk) 20:56, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

homework?--203.202.43.54 (talk) 02:13, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

ROFLMAO. Literally. That was great. --Jayron32 21:54, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm not completely sure what ROFLMAO means, but if it's what I think and you did it literally, then see a doctor. DJ Clayworth (talk) 05:22, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

It's an oasis for folks to recover when they shop till they almost drop. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:49, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

It's not much of an oasis this time of year. More like a food court press. PhGustaf (talk) 05:27, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Great job, Matt :-) Nyttend (talk) 07:11, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Darn - and I always assumed it was a much messier version of a tennis court. But now I'm wondering whether I have 'squash court' all wrong! SteveBaker (talk) 21:15, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Christmas light display in New Jersey

This is somewhat urgent; I am looking for a Christmas light display/show in the Asbury Park, NJ area (07712). Google comes up with shady websites and/or out-dated websites. Pay or free, I will drive up to 50 miles to see em. Can anyone out there help? It is very urgent and somewhat important. Thank you all in advance!! --24.187.98.157 (talk) 22:28, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

The website festivals-and-shows.com lists a show in Camden, NJ that may work for you. There is also "That Christmas House" in Plainfield, NJ — Michael J 20:57, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Help with blinking standby light on my TV

The standby light on my tv has started to often blink about once a second without end when I press the on button. When blinking it will not start. Sometimes it starts blinking when I press anything on the remote. I've changed the batteries in the remote twice, no improvement. A) Since a lot of different tvs are actually the same internal gubbins in a different box with a different brand name, does anyone know what the problem might be? Is it trying to tell me something, or is it just defective? (It is actually a 14 inch CRT tv/dvd combo (model Durabrand DCT1481)). B) Are there any good UK forums that may be able to provide an answer to this? Thanks 78.144.207.126 (talk) 23:38, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Digital Spy has a technical forum, and is a UK forum. --TammyMoet (talk) 09:21, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

In answer to your second question, you might try AV Forums, I've always found the folks on there to be quite helpful. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 08:51, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Does it shut down while it is on? ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 15:06, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

No, never. The standby light only starts to sometimes blink when I press the "on" button. Either then or as soon as I press a button on the remote control. Once the tv is working, the power light never starts to blink and it works fine. 78.147.9.91 (talk) 20:26, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

December 16

How to apply for a part time job

How do you apply for a part time job at a retail store? Do you go there and hand them your resume or do you ask for an application form and fill that in and give that to them along with your resume? --124.254.77.148 (talk) 02:37, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Normally, the latter. If it were me, I'd go in to the customer service area and ask for an application. Take it home, fill it out, and bring it back in with a resume. Dismas|^(talk) 02:45, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

I would expect different stores or chains to have different policies. Some might require a resume, while others might have you fill in everything they're interested in, on their standard form. If you have a particular store in mind, check their website and see if it includes a job application. Also, call the store and pose that question to them. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:47, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Always have a resume prepared and in hand when you go (never more than two pages, and if you're just at the start of your career then you can – and should – almost certainly keep it to one). While it is not always required, it never hurts. Nearly every larger company or chain will use a standardized application form for their part-time positions. Find out if there is one, ask for one politely, and fill it out entirely — even all the bits that duplicate the information on your resume. It's often a good idea to take the application form away with you so you have time to carefully, thoughtfully, and legibly fill everything out.

Hand in the completed application with a copy of your resume. During this entire process, be appropriately dressed and well-groomed because, especially for part-time jobs, you never know when you'll be interviewed. You may be talking to – or seen by – the manager when you pick up or drop off your application. You may well be asked to sit down for a quick chat as soon as you bring in the form. The person responsible for hiring may talk to the cashier you drop off your resume with. You never know. Good luck! TenOfAllTrades(talk) 03:54, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Also, try looking on the company website for a jobs or careers page. Some shops have switched to online applications. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 12:07, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

You can and should collect information about the store before you make yourself known as a job applicant. Visit as a customer and observe what they sell (brands?) and their staff (number, skills needed, who seems to be in charge?) What are the opening times? What role does the store play in the community? This is most apparent in small towns where a store is well established. There is probably local knowledge about who runs the store that you can pick up, for example from other storekeepers. You could say you are interested in local history, which is an easy way to find out about local commerce without revealing your actual interest. An opportunity for an informal contact with the store manager may even arise (grasp it!). In any case it will be to your advantage when you present yourself to know who is the boss that you really need to talk to, and to be prepared to respond intelligently to their likely interests. A store manager will estimate how capable you might be to handle his/her customers from the first impression you make. Otherwise see the good advice above by TenOfAllTrades. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 14:34, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Construction of this house?

Heinrich Zeller House

Any idea what the Heinrich Zeller House is built of? I'd guess brick — it's a little east of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania and built in 1745 — but I don't know what to think from the picture, and the normally-good sources are silent on this. Nyttend (talk) 07:22, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Kinda looks like stucco. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:31, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

I don't know, but this extract from this book says:

Heinrich Zeller House, Fort Zeller, Newmanstown, Pennsylvania, 1745. Key words: flurken-houses, sandstone architrave, baroque manner, carved shield, semi-enclosed stair, ornamental shelf, kick to the roof, chevron-paneled doors, spring in the lower level, arched cellar door, dairy rooms, products for market, sandstone window frames, small windows, 'underframe' post and purlin roof]

--Sean 15:14, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

If you're willing to trust a random person who happens to have taken a picture of the place, this page refers to "the present stone structure". Unfortunately, the NRHP site apparently "has not yet . . . digitized" the nomination form or official record for the house. Deor (talk) 17:30, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

According to this history of the area, it's mortar-covered limestone. This link and this one also indicate it's stone. --Sean 19:50, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Pretty close to stucco. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:04, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

What ever happened to New York Seltzer?

Does anyone recall the refreshing drink of the late 80's / early 90's known as New York SeltzerItalic text? If so, what ever happened to it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.165.196.84 (talk) 10:38, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Is that meant to be something like Alka Selzer? I know what you mean about products disappearing. In New Zealand we used to have Tek toothbrushes. What ever happened to them ? All the others, the bristles come off, and you nearly swallow them.C.B.Lilly 13:09, 16 December 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Christopher1968 (talk • contribs)

New York Seltzer was a line of soft drinks/flavored sparkling waters. According to this : [4] it was discontinued at some point. 10draftsdeep (talk) 14:50, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Ipana toothpaste. It just disappeared. So iconic, it was used in a scene from the movie Grease. 99.166.95.142 (talk) 17:25, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

NEW YORK SELTZER WAS THE BEST! I WISH IT WOULD COME BACK. THE RED RASPBERRY & PEACH WERE UN-FREAKIN-BELIEVABLE. I SAY IT'S TIME FOR A COME-BACK. -CS-

New York, New York

What is the origin or justification for New York referring to its courtrooms as " parts " ? I have seen this on both Law and Order and Raising the Bar.C.B.Lilly 13:07, 16 December 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Christopher1968 (talk • contribs)

Can you provide a complete sentence containing such a reference? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:32, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

They're not referring to the courtroom itself, but to the cases. They'll say something like "xxx part two is now in session, please rise..." and on the shows (IIRC) they print something similar on the bottom of the screen. Matt Deres (talk) 14:59, 16 December 2009 (UTC) Based on Edison's comment, I think I'm mistaken here; I assumed that it worked similarly to what we've got in Canada (I was a witness in a recent case that was XXX ats XXX part 2 because... it was the second part to the trial. Obviously the NY legal system is too advanced to use such straightforward terminology!) Matt Deres (talk) 23:33, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

The New York state court system is unusual, in that the lowest level court for hearing such cases as felonies is called the "Supreme Court." In other states this lowest criminal court might be called the "Circuit Court." There are "parts", that is physical courtrooms, dockets and judges. Judge Jones may be in room 1100 overseeing Part 11. If he goes on vacation, Judge Smith may step in , same part, same room. Here is a present list of parts: [5]. This question was asked and answered previously at The Straight Dope. Verdicts from the New York "Supreme Court" may be appealed at the state Court of Appeals." See also New York Supreme Court and New York Court of Appeals. Edison (talk) 16:52, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Thank You all. Are you basically saying that a part can refer both to the trial itself, as well as the room ? In Raising the Bar the conservative judge who carries the gun ( good idea ) says something to the effect of someone being in " his part ", so I thought then he meant room, but that could also refer to his trial that he is overseeing. C.B.Lilly 04:42, 17 December 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Christopher1968 (talk • contribs)

Telephone number for ka de we kaufhaus berlin germany

I need the telephone number for ka de we kaufhaus in berlin germany, I have searched their namwe with no success. Thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.75.3.88 (talk) 13:44, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Tel +49 (0)30 2121 0. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 14:05, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

That is, if you're in Germany, dial 030 2121 0. If you're outside Germany, dial your International dialing prefix, then 49 30 2121 0. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 14:29, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Bar Code.

Hi, I know there is downloadable software to create accurate barcodes available somewhere, but I can't find it. Could you show to me what "Lauren" would look like as a barcode. It's my name. :) Thanks. ت ت ت ت (talk) 14:26, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

There is an online version at http://www.terryburton.co.uk/barcodewriter/generator/. I suggest you select Code 128 and enter the content as ^104^102Lauren^101 ^103Lauren. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 15:04, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Note that there are MANY kinds of barcode out there - so there is no single barcode that says "Lauren" - there are many different ones. SteveBaker (talk) 21:09, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

But not all support alpha characters and not all support lower case, thus my suggestion of Code 128 one of the most versatile linear barcode symbologies. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 12:37, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Personally I suggest a bokode even if isn't really a barcode. More seriously though I would say Data matrix (computer) and QR Code and perhaps Aztec Code would be other good bets, I'm actually starting to see them in ads and products and stuff nowadays and with the continouing proliferation of mobile phones with cameras and internet connections and I guess the need for more barcode storage capacity they're likely to keep on increasing Nil Einne (talk) 16:41, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. :) ت ت ت ت (talk) 13:08, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

12 Days of Christmas

What is the cost of the gifts in the song in today's dollars?

thanks,

Howard nutt —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.161.151.90 (talk) 18:50, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

I think that, the Christmas Price Index is exactly the calculation you are looking for. APL (talk) 19:05, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Did British POWs in WW2 still get paid while imprisoned?

As above. Thanks. 92.22.54.24 (talk) 19:58, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

POWs are supposed to be paid for their labour under the Geneva Convention, but it was kind of a pittance, and the Nazis and Japanese weren't likely to follow it anyway. The US had an agreement to pay the equivalent of their own ranks (a German lieutenant would get an American lieutenant's pay, etc), according to this article (which is at JSTOR so you'd need a subscription to see more than the first page). Did they get back pay from their own government when they were released? I'm not sure about that but I'll keep looking. Adam Bishop (talk) 21:47, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

I found this[6]. I know merchant seamen had their pay stopped as soon as their ship sank which seems a bit harsh. Alansplodge (talk) 22:08, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

To pay their bills, they had to float a loan. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:26, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Not clever and not funny!Froggie34 (talk) 13:13, 17 December 2009 (UTC)Froggie34

De gustibus non est disputandum Edison (talk) 19:44, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

You can say that again. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:09, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Rib it. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:18, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

I heard many years ago that they were supposed to receive "camp money" from the Germans, which could be used within the POW camp, while their British pay continued to accrue. When they were liberated, they received their back pay, minus what they were supposed to have received in the camps (which they didn't always get). -- Arwel Parry (talk) 13:32, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

I always assumed that soldiers got paid by their governments even while in POW camps, whcih is why it was always considered their duty to escape. One of our own, Charles Hazlitt Upham, did so so often, they sent him to Colditz. This now concerns me, since my late great uncle Bill Hughes was in a Stalag with the later actor Clive Dunn( 1920 - ) . I am aware that NZ returned servicemen were offered farms by the government as a token of their service. Upham turned this down. I am not sure what great uncle Bill did. It would have been nice to have returned home to a bit of money, even if only a few hundred pounds, since they had nowhere to spend it like they did on active duty, but I suspect it would still seem like a small consolation for the ordeal they had had. I can imagine a number of governments stiffing their heroes, and giving themselves a big raise. The Russian.C.B.Lilly 13:12, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Slightly late response, but it may be useful to someone searching through the archive. Based off of this letter [7] from Kurt Vonnegut (and others) after his release from a POW camp, it would appear that US troops were paid their back pay for the entire time they were imprisoned. The pay that he mentions ($600), doesn't really match up for his rank of Private that he attests to in the letter, which had a pay rate of $50 a month[8], being that he was captured in December 1944, and was writing the letter in May 1945. It is possible that due to certain circumstances he hadn't drawn pay for several months prior to being captured, however. Zharmad (talk) 05:13, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

The "|" Key

On my Dell Studio laptop, above between the Enter and Backspace key, there is the "\" key. But when holding shift, it makes a "|" sign instead - much like the wikipedia mark up used to link images. What is the function of this symbol "|", aside from Wiki use? Acceptable (talk) 20:44, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

We have an article for everything, including that - it's a Vertical bar. (It doesn't seem to be on the page, but personally, I use it to separate metrical units when scanning poetry.) Adam Bishop (talk) 20:59, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

It's used a lot by programmers to mean "OR" as in:

  if ((( ham | sausages | herring ) & eggs ) | ( toast & marmalade ) ) then breakfast ;

(If you have ham or sausages or herring and you have some eggs - or if you have toast and marmalade - then you have ingredients for breakfast.)

...and it's used in UNIX systems (Linux, MacOS, etc) to mean "pipe" as in:

  cal 2010 | lpr

...which displays a calendar for the year 2010 and 'pipes' the resulting text to the printer.

Some people use them for making diagrams using "ASCII art":

   +------------------+
   |                  |
   |  This is a box!  |
   |                  |
   +------------------+

There are probably lots of other uses too. If you are getting '|' when you type '\' then you probably have the wrong 'international keyboard' settings on your computer.

SteveBaker (talk) 21:01, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Oh, I remembered another usage, to separate bars in guitar tablature. Man, it's been forever since I made any of those. Adam Bishop (talk) 21:34, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

How old is the key? I took a look at the typewriter photos on the Typewriter page and didn't see it on any of them. Does it just date to computer keyboards? IBM PC keyboard says "| is a vertical bar, originally used as a typographic separator for optical character recognition." It's an odd little character; I'd be interested in knowing an authoritative story of how it become so dang standard. It has less obvious origins than most of the keys, which are obviously holdovers from typewriters and written characters. --Mr.98 (talk) 22:22, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

The unshifted and shifted characters available on the standard IBM PC US keyboard layouts are no more and no less than the printable ASCII characters. So the real question might be: Why is the "|" character one of the ASCII characters? --Bavi H (talk) 00:58, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

I can't cite a reference, but I've read that the primary reason was for drawing diagrams, like the ASCII art example above. Once it was there, of course, people found other uses for it. --Anonymous, 03:05 UTC, December 17, 2009.

I doubt that - there was a vertical bar character in the EBCDIC character set in the 1950's - and that came from one of the myriad of punched card formats from before that. It's likely that this symbol predates computers...and therefore predates character-based "art". SteveBaker (talk) 04:00, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Citation needed, Steve. According to Wikipedia, EBCDIC was created in 1963-64, which makes it pretty much the same age as ASCII. As far as I know, there were no earlier character sets with more than 6 bits per character, a small enough limit that they had to be frugal with the punctuation marks; and I'm ont aware of any such character sets that included "|".

Obviously the "|" symbol predates computers; but so do lots of others that we never saw in computer character sets before Unicode. The question Bavi asked and I was answering was why "|" was considered important enough to include in ASCII (and, it seems, EBCDIC). --Anonymous, 09:55 UTC, December 17, 2009.

Character-based art has a much longer pedigree than EBCDIC or computers. There are a number of nineteenth century examples, and typewriter art was a popular art medium in the 1950s to the 1970s. It's not that likely that the pipe predated the artform. see also [9]; and sadly I saw in the last fortnight but cannot find a character typeset map of US states or counties dating from circa 1870. --Tagishsimon (talk) 04:16, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

(1) I think you have to have a very limited ASCII set for this sentence to be true: “The unshifted and shifted characters available on the standard IBM PC US keyboard layouts are no more and no less than the printable ASCII characters.” It's not hard to think of printable ASCII characters that don't show up on the vast majority of PC keyboards. That's why Windows user tools include a Character Map, one of which I've planted to the left of my taskbar. (2) I first encountered the straight vertical stroke in a juvenile attempt to read Principia Mathematica (Cambridge, 1910-1913, 1927) by Bertrand Russell and Alfred North Whitehead, where it's called the Sheffer stroke and indicates that the full propositions on either side of the stroke cannot both be true. But most of Principia Mathematica was set from type already available at the Cambridge University Press, and I'm sure the character is much older. It might be something, like black boxes of different widths, that can be produced by manipulating the physical type for other characters of letterpress printing. —— Shakescene (talk) 09:11, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

ASCII is a limited set. 7 bits, 128 characters. It has been extended and manipulated in many ways since its inception, but it certainly predates Windows. There is some interesting history here; the mathematical use referred to is most likely indicating absolute value. This rather exhaustive history (via the Internet Archive) shows that the vertical line character didn't become part of ASCII until the 1967 draft, although it seems that it may have been the "broken vertical line" at that point. Unfortunately, that page skips over the discussion of the "national graphics" characters (also mentioned in the prior link), referring us to " Coded character sets, history & development by Charles E. Mackenzie, ISBN 0-201-14460-3 (Addison-Wesley, 1980), " for all the juicy details of the debates. This image of a page from a November 1967 discussion of ASCII-1967 mentions how the (broken) vertical line might be used, and perhaps more importantly mentions that " ... X.32 attempted to include the characters commonly encountered in programming languages." --LarryMac | Talk 13:52, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

I just compared the ASCII character set to the symbols my US-English keyboard can produce: there are no symbols in ASCII that cannot be produced by my keyboard, and no symbols that my keyboard can produce that are not in ASCII.

As for the vertical bar, I've seen it used to write a variation of set-builder notation, which I believe solidly pre-dates ASCII. --Carnildo (talk) 00:29, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Shakescene: Just to clarify, the printable ASCII characters are only the characters that appear in the image at the beginning of the the ASCII article. --Bavi H (talk) 02:25, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

The vertical bar is a logical OR symbol in Boolean algebra, developed in the 1840s. I found a bit of history on the inclusion in the ASCII set at http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/latin1/ascii-hist.html#7C. Incidentally, the ASCII article uses File:ASCII Code Chart-Quick ref card.jpg which is from a GE card in my collection. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 03:57, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

if only somebody had linked to that ASCII history website earlier --LarryMac | Talk 12:59, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

British economy question.

The Wikipedia page on the British economy states that the 2008 est. GDP was $2674 trillion. Given the population of the UK is about 60 million (in total), I calculate that the GDP per capita is about $4.5 million per skull (impossible imho). Which contrasts with Wiki's own calculation stating GDP per Capita is $43,785 (a much lower number but still very high). So firstly, is a trillion equal to 1 million million (1,000,000,000,000) or 1 thousand million (1,000,000,000), and secondly, even if it is the lower figure, how can every man, woman and child in the UK produce $43,785 per annum (based on the 2008 figures)? I just don't get it. Especially when you consider that most of the employed folk are in non-manufacturing jobs nowadays. So thirdly, just what does GDP include? And please don't tell me that public sector clerks pushing paper files around each others desks are adding value. Thanks. 92.22.54.24 (talk) 21:00, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

There is confusion about 'billion' and 'trillion' in British English - originally a billion was a million millons - and a trillion was a million, million, millons - but the American English usage of a billion being a thousand million and a trillion being a million million is becoming more common. In this case, certainly a million million is what's intended. That said, $4.5M per capita does sound high. SteveBaker (talk) 21:05, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

This report [10] gives a per capita GDP of $48,000 for 2008 - they must mean billion, not trillion. I think we (the Brits) have been going with the US (originally French) billions for a very long time now. Alansplodge (talk) 22:00, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

"That said, $4.5M per capita does sound high." no kidding... :-P Nil Einne (talk) 18:37, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

The UK GDP is $2.674 trillion - note the decimal point, so the GDP per capita is about $43,000. To answer your second question, GDP includes everything, not just tangible assets produced. The standard way of measuring GDP is not to directly measure production, but rather consumption. If someone was consumed, it must have been produced, so the two should be the same (you do have to compensate for imports, exports and capital investments, though, all of which result in things being consumed at a different place or time than they were produced). Since someone is willing to pay the public sector clerks for pushing paper around, that work does have value (in the economic sense of the word), so it does count as production. --Tango (talk) 22:12, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Our List of countries by GDP (nominal) says GB has GDP of 2,680,000 million, so it looks like someone forgot a . in the number. Googlemeister (talk) 22:15, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Looking at the article, it's using a comma rather than a period as the decimal separator. --Carnildo (talk) 23:55, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

To answer your third question: The definition of GDP is in the intro to our GDP article: It is the market value of all final goods and services made within the borders of a country in a year. The use of the term "final goods" means that the shoes manufactured in Aberdeen count toward the total, but not the shoelaces manufactured in Birmingham which are sent over to Aberdeen in order to make the shoes. (But, of course, the shoelaces sent from Birmingham over to London for direct consumer sale are counted.) Comet Tuttle (talk) 23:22, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

To answer your question about how the mean per capita GDP can be so high, when the median British household does not earn $48,000 per person, remember that this is the sum total that all of the workers of the UK have produced divided by the total number of workers. If you are a Briton who works, a fair part of what you produce ends up going to your bosses as pay (since as you and I know they get heaps of money but don't actually produce much), another part goes to shareholders in your company, another part goes to bondholders from whom your company has borrowed, and another part goes to the government for redistribution through corporate taxes before it even enters your gross pay. Marco polo (talk) 02:23, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

As for the comment “most of the employed folk are in non-manufacturing jobs nowadays,” that is the only way you can actually get above about $15,000-$20,000 per capita income. Manufacturing won’t do it; the economy needs to move into higher value-added work, which means services. Remember, metal-bashing is only a virtue when artists or musicians do it! DOR (HK) (talk) 08:36, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Question about insurance statistics

I am seeking information regarding the percentage of homes covered either with homeowners or renter's insurance in a specific area of Washington State in the USA. I could not find a Census data set that included this data. Is there a data set I missed or another source of data that would include this information? Thanks! 64.128.84.168 (talk) 22:58, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

I don't think Census questionnaires ask about this, even the detailed forms that are received by the small subset of the population. Does this link answer your question? This page (funded by the insurance industry, by the looks of it) has a lot of very interesting homeowners insurance stats for the US for 1999-2008 but doesn't answer your exact question. Comet Tuttle (talk) 23:29, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Statistics by the United Nations and the Australian Bureau of Statistics (cont.)

I am going to ask you these questions. This time, can you please just simply answer YES or NO?

1. Does 2000-2005 cover the entire period from the beginning of the year 2000 to the end of the year 2005? Does 2005-2010 cover the entire period from the beginning of the year 2005 to the end of year 2010?

2. Does 1901-1910 cover the entire period from the beginning of the year 1901 to the end of the year 1910? Does 1999-2001 cover the entire period from the beginning of the year 1999 to the end of the year 2001?

3. Does the 2000 revision of World Population Prospects for 2000-2005 includes predictions for statistics for what the whole period 2000-2005 would be?

Bowei Huang (talk) 23:37, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

At this point, no one here is apparently able to answer this question, which has been asked multiples times using slightly different wording. I suppose someone who missed the last 3 go arounds may be have some inside information on how that data was compiled, but it comes down to the fact that no one is really any more certain than you are on this. If it is really that important, than your best recourse is to contact the bureaus and agencies responsible for publishing that data, and asking them directly how they calculate it. There is a very good chance you'll get an answer. Most people are perfectly willing to take 2-3 minutes to respond to a friendly email or phone call asking this sort of question, if you can find the right person to ask. For example the Australian Bureau of Statistics contact information is here. That page has a phone number and indicates they would be perfectly happy to receive your call. The United Nations is a big organization, and I am not sure which division is responsible for keeping track of the statistics you seek; but there is likely a way to contact them as well. --Jayron32 02:31, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

1. No. It covers the period starting in the full year 2000 and ending in the full year 2005. There is no indication of partial coverage at all. 2. Same answer, different years. 3. No idea; I don’t have a copy.

DOR (HK) (talk) 08:38, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

December 17

Adding brief summaries of articles

In my own work, I have had to edit down hundreds of long Wikipedia articles to just 1 or 2 pages. It would be a shame to let this valuable work go to waste. These executive summaries would be a valuable resource for people who don't have the time or the will to read and digest massive amounts of data. Many users just want to see a really good boiled-down version of the larger article. However, when I tried to submit such a summary, I got a nasty message saying that I was "vandalizing" the edit page and that I would be kicked off Wikipedia if I did it again. What's the deal? I am making a legitimate attempt to improve this site. Who are these people that submit all this content and how do I become one of them? 63.168.218.2 (talk) 00:26, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Questions about edit Wikipedia should go to the Wikipedia:Help Desk. However, I'll say this: While summaries are good, adding them to the existing article just duplicates content and makes it harder for people that want the detail to find it. The summaries need to go somewhere else where people that want them can find them. Perhaps they could be subpages of articles, or on a different site altogether. If you want to suggest that we include summaries somewhere, do so at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals). That said, the lede of an article should be a summary of it, although it should be shorter than 1 or 2 pages in most cases - you might want to try improving the ledes of some articles. --Tango (talk) 00:42, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

I was going to mention Tango's last point. If any of the articles you summarised are missing ledes, then a summary of the article would probably work there. Other than that, it sounds like the sort of thing which (dare I say it) would be a useful extra project within the WIkimedia collection - Wikipedia's biggest and/or most complex articles summarised. Sort of a bit like what WP simple English does, but with the article content rather than the language use. Grutness...wha? 00:57, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Depending on how technical they are in their shortened form, they may be suitable for the Simple English Wikipedia. Dismas|^(talk) 05:27, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

They might also be very usefully translated for non-English editions of Wikipedia, which might not have any version at all of the article (Look on the left-hand side of an article to see which language editions, if any, have articles on the same subject). In one sense the project for a printed paper edition of Wikipedia (Wikipedia 1.0) is partly such a collection of summaries as Grutness describes. See also WP:LEAD for the conventions about the summary paragraphs that usually begin longer articles. ¶ Could you give us an example of what you summarized, and where it was rejected? I can't find one in your list of contributions (but that list may just be from one of several computers you use to edit Wikipedia.) —— Shakescene (talk) 09:43, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

The OP mystifies me. They "had to edit down hundreds of Wikipedia articles" in their "own work" whatever that is, which means they did it for a reason. It's nice that the OP regards the results as "valuable work", a "valuable resource and "really good" but only the OP is responsible if the reason was a bad one so that the results have gone to waste. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 23:12, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Does Steven Seagal wear a toupee?

Does anyone know? Just trying to settle a disagreement. --95.148.108.56 (talk) 01:12, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

It's hard to prove a negative - I can't find any credible sources that say he does - but that doesn't conclusively prove that he doesn't. I strongly suggest that whoever is on the "yes, he wears a toupee" side of the debate should present their evidence. We can then examine the quality of that evidence and give you a better idea of whether it's credible or not. SteveBaker (talk) 03:38, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

If you enter ["Steven Seagal" toupee] in google, there are plenty of references, but as you suggest, likely none of them would pass muster with wikipedia, so it may just be groundless gossip. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:45, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

What is provable is how his career went into the toilet afer he got himself killed off in Executive Decision.C.B.Lilly 04:43, 17 December 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Christopher1968 (talk • contribs)

Invasion of Iraq

Which countries actually took part in the invasion of Iraq? More specifically, was Spain part of the invasion? There is a disagreement about it on the Iraq War article, and I can't really find any reliable sources that are specific enough on the matter just searching the internet.--Stinging Swarm ^talk 03:32, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Yes, Spain was. The full list is here, midway down infobox. Is there a disagreement about Spain's involvement? I remember distinctly that spain was involved. Wasn't it one of the purported reasons for the Madrid bombings? Shadowjams (talk) 03:53, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Here's a cite [11] Shadowjams (talk) 03:56, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for the cite. An anon is disputing the fact that Spain took part in the invasion, claiming they only joined afterwords. So Spain was removed from the list. There seems to be a bit of unreferenced editing going on to that list, so I don't really trust it as of right now! However, the source you provided will help to resolve it.--Stinging Swarm ^talk 04:34, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

No, there were no Spanish troops present during the invasion, they began deploying around the middle of July. There were non-combat personnel, including either a field hospital or hospital ship (or both). I'll look for some references.—eric 04:37, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Operation Iraqi Freedom—By the Numbers

(2003, July 11). "AFTER THE WAR; Spaniards on Way To Back U.S. in Iraq." The New York Times. A5.

"The Spanish ship Galacia delivered humanitarian aid and a field hospital to Umm Qasr" Cordesman, A. H. (2003). "8/9 April." The Iraq War: Strategy, tactics, and military lessons. p. 112.

Apparently 200 combat troops were sent to defend Turkey, and around 900 personnel aboard a "hospital ship" (probably Galacia) including some to work on mine clearing and chemical decontamination.—eric 05:16, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

A Spanish flotilla of three ships and 900 personnel departed Spain in March and arrived in the Northern Arabian Gulf on 8 April. The next day, the amphibious landing ship Galacia sailed up the KAA waterway to Umm Qasr and off-loaded a forty-bed field hospital with fifty-three medical personnel, a biological and chemical decontamination team, and a construction battalion. Cowden, A. (2005). The Naval Institute almanac of the U.S. Navy. pp. 25-6.

—eric 05:30, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Very helpful, thanks a lot. So it seems they supported the invasion with personnel, but did not directly take part in combat operations. Thanks again.--Stinging Swarm ^talk 20:28, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Higher education in EU

I've been hearing for some time now that in certain countries of Europe higher education is either free or very cheep. Today I came across a Danish University advertising on Facebook offering free education in English for EU citizens. So is there a catch or do some countries really have free and good higher education ? ~~Xil (talk) 10:03, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Yes, in some countries, at least for undergraduates. For example, in Scotland (see, for example, [12]). Note that in Scotland undergraduate study is free for Scottish students and also for EU students not from the UK - but not for English, Welsh or Northern Irish students. Until the late 1990s, it was free throughout the UK. Warofdreams talk 10:19, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Do you know in what other countries I can get free education as a EU citizen ? ~~Xil (talk) 14:30, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

You can find details on page two of the latest edition of Key Data on Higher Education in Europe - basically, in some nations it depends on which institution you want to study at, and which course you are taking. I believe, although I can't find a reference, that in any of those nations which offer free tuition to nationals, they must offer the same to nationals of other EU countries. Warofdreams talk 15:44, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Yes, that is true. Higher education in Sweden is completely free for any citizen of the EU. Belisarius (talk) 17:53, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

A nitpick but that doesn't really say it's true. However the fact that in both Sweden and Denmark are offering it, strongly suggests it is mandated otherwise it's a bit odd that they are. I looked for a clear cut ref but couldn't find anything either. Surprisingly neither European Higher Education Area nor Educational policies and initiatives of the European Union seem to mention anything and Bologna process only mentions that fees have sometimes been raised as a result of it however lots of refs mention that EU citizens pay local fees in specific EU countries (obviously if you have no fee for locals then a local fee is no fee), e.g. [13] Top-up fees#How the fees work. I just can't find anything that mentions that this is legislated or where it's legislated. Of course it's often true that EU citizens have to be treated as locals in EU countries Nil Einne (talk) 18:15, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

In the EU member states have a general obligation to treat citizens of other member states no less favourably than their own citizens, so a specific requirement for one sector (e.g. education) would not be needed. There are a few limited exceptions (for example suffrage, armed service and membership of a diplomatic corps). DuncanHill (talk) 13:12, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Also Norway - I wrote a bit about that in a reply here: Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2009_November_18#Free_University_Education. A small catch might be that the Scandinavian countries (where higher education is, in general, tax-financed, like health services are), undergraduate higher education tends to be mostly available in the national language. I know they give language courses to foreign students at least here in Oslo, though. And there's a lot of good graduate (master's) programmes available in English. Jørgen (talk) 08:55, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

How do you all figure education is "free"? You're paying for it through taxation. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:39, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Actually if you're coming from some other EU country I don't think you are Nil Einne (talk) 16:44, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

You're paying taxes to support schooling in your own country, right? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:48, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

That's not the same as paying directly. It's hard to explain why, but...well, it's just not the same. (If you don't understand, that's probably why you'll never have free health care :)) Adam Bishop (talk) 19:13, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

The difference is that you pay for it whether you use it or not. That means using it doesn't cost you any more than you would be paying anyway, which is a pretty close to "free". (In the UK we use the phrase "free at the point of use" to describe things like the NHS.) --Tango (talk) 20:18, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

The University on Facebook was advertising undergraduate and graduate courses in English to people of whatever country Facebook thought I was in (It was saying free to Polish, when I was in Estonia, know it has figured out correctly I'm in Latvia). I currently am studying in another country for a fee, which would count as huge in my country, I wouldn't mind trying to transfer, if I found school with as interesting courses or considering free graduate studies. Paying taxes seems to be way smaller burden than paying tuition fee (and let's not forget cost of rent and food). The link to pdf User:Warofdreams posted shows error when I try to open it, so any countries other than Scandinavian ? ~~Xil (talk) 19:38, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

It's down for me too, at the moment, but the Google View is working. It mentions Denmark, Estonia, Ireland, Cyprus, Greece, Slovenia and Scotland as completely free, plus Finland, Sweden and public universities in Norway as requiring only a subscription to a student organisation, some students getting free tuition in Latvia, and certain classes of programme in the Czech Republic and Spain as being free. Some other countries are listed further down as having no tuition fees - Hungary, Romania, Malta and some areas of Germany - I'm not clear whether there are other charges which led to them being omitted from the first section of states where study can be regarded as free. Warofdreams talk 20:24, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, I study in Estonia, it most definitely is not completely free. Are you sure they don't mean state funded study places for best students or something like that ? ~~Xil (talk) 03:07, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

How do I log unto Tagged when it says "service unavailable"?

For several months I had been using the social networking site called TAGGED.COM. But recently, I just discovered that I can neither read my mails nor get across to my friends. Anytime I try to log in, the site shows a "service unavailable" sign. What alternative way can I use to log unto this site?

If you can't even get to their home page, the site is probably down and you won't find an alternative means of access. You'll just have to wait until it's up again, probably in a few hours time. All websites go down every now and then.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 17:28, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Their home page is up - but perhaps one of the servers behind that is dead. SteveBaker (talk) 20:01, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

There's a website... downforeveryoneorjustme.com - maybe worth checking on there. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 09:13, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Current Lumber Prices

What is an average cost per board foot to a consumer for Honduras Mahogany? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arilynmithra (talk • contribs) 14:34, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

This will almost certainly depend on your location. Marco polo (talk) 14:51, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

The New England area in the USA —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arilynmithra (talk • contribs) 15:29, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

More specific location. Boston should have a very different price then Bangor. Googlemeister (talk) 15:45, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Metrowest Massachusetts —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arilynmithra (talk • contribs) 15:58, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Actually, if you order online, the cost won't vary too much within the United States. This vendor sells Honduran Mahogany for $4.50 per board foot, though the website doesn't discuss shipping charges. Those are unlikely to exceed $3 per board foot, even to Massachusetts, particularly on a large order. That vendor may have a high minimum order, such as 100 board feet. This site sells boards with one straight edge for 15.24 for orders of less than 20 board feet. The shipping cost via UPS ground for an order of 10 board feet would add about $3.50 per board foot. Marco polo (talk) 16:29, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

December 18

Internet connections in Micronations

If I made a new micronation on water (something like Sealand), how could I get an Internet connection there? 192.103.98.4 (talk) 06:53, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Satellite uplink. 218.25.32.210 (talk) 07:38, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

If you were in sight of land, a microwave link would be a pretty good solution. Or IP over Avian Carriers SteveBaker (talk) 13:51, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

If you're on the cheap and within say 300 km LOS of land you could just try Long-range Wi-Fi [14] [15]. Mind you you'll want to be careful that you don't use too high powered a transmitter or you'll give your neigbours an excuse to invade you. P.S. Before any nitpicks, yes I do appreciate any wifi is a microwave link Nil Einne (talk) 16:18, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Are you planning an invasion of Rockall, perhaps, and wanting to edit Wikipedia from there? Deor (talk) 20:03, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

You should take an umbrella with you. Googlemeister (talk) 20:30, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Winter waves breaking over the islet Rockall in 1943

But where can you get 300km line of sight to land? Graeme Bartlett (talk) 20:20, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

December 19

Rib it.

I asked a serious question recently about whether British POW's continued to receive their Service Pay whilst incarcerated by foreign captors - and received a response (amongst other more intelligent responses)from Baseball saying RIBIT. I am English and have a degree in British English but admit to not knowing what RIBIT means. It sounds like the sound a cartoon animal character such as a grasshopper might make but, being unfamiliar with those characters and sounds I am left at a loss as to Baseball's intentions. Could someone here, perhaps more expert in the vagaries of the Engish Language than myself, please elucidate? Thanks. 92.21.131.118 (talk) 00:03, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

His response was to a user with "Froggie" as part of the name, and "ribbit" is a common transliteration of the sound a frog makes. Whether the response was supposed to be more than that, only that editor can say. I hope the well-intentioned and useful responses were helpful to you. --LarryMac | Talk 00:34, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

That, combined with the thought that "to rib" is to make fun of. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:43, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Fine - and thanks for the explanation. But I haven't yet managed to see the "funny" part. 92.8.216.4 (talk) 11:09, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

A link to the archive might be useful. Your contributions don't have the edit... Vimescarrot (talk) 11:46, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

It's still on the page, just search "British POW". --LarryMac | Talk 11:57, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Welcome to the club 92.8, a lot of people have difficulty in seeing the 'funny' side of Bugs's comments. Caesar's Daddy (talk) 14:29, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Comedy is always a matter of individual taste. I don't find South Park funny, but some others do. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:24, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

I suppose there's no sense pointing out that people can choose to not watch South Park whereas people on the RefDesk apparently have no choice in whether to be exposed to your humour or not? Matt Deres (talk) 22:14, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

No one forces either you or me to read anything. It is freely chosen. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:20, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

If Comedy Central somehow starts embedding South Park into the reference desk, then you may use them as an excuse by comparison. APL (talk) 00:07, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

travel from England to France

Considering both convenience and cost, generally what’s the best way to get from London to Caen? The Eurostar via Paris, or to Portsmouth and then by ferry? (Or some other alternative?) —Mathew5000 (talk) 00:21, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Definitely the Eurostar via Paris is the most convenient route. From what I've been able to find online, ferries between Portsmouth and Ouistreham (Caen's port) take 7 hours just for the crossing. Then there is the 1.5 to 2 hour trip from London Waterloo to Portsmouth, waiting time, and the shuttle bus to take you the 12 miles from the ferry terminal in Ouistreham to the town of Caen. (The shuttle bus runs only during the day time. At night, you face a €40 taxi fare.) This easily adds up to a 10-11 hour trip. The price would be about £87 single without the taxi fare from the port to Caen. Eurostar gets you from London (St. Pancras) to Caen in just over 6 hours, including a transfer by metro between stations in Paris. The price if you need to travel tomorrow would be €228 (£202). However, if you can book a couple of weeks in advance (outside of the Christmas-New Years travel season), the Eurostar/SNCF single fare drops to €65.50 (£58.10). If you are strapped for cash, need to travel soon, and don't mind an 11-hour journey, then you should take the ferry. However, if you are planning your trip in advance, there's no reason not to take the train. (By the way, I compared cheap airfares from Luton to Paris CDG. The total price (including transfers to and from the airports) ends up being similar to the train, but the travel time is more like 8-9 hours because of all the transfers and waiting.) Marco polo (talk) 01:45, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Yes, absolutely agree. Have made the trip many times and, with a car, the ferry is the best option. But otherwise the train every time. You may find better fares if you book your trip in two sections. (British Rail fares are horrendus. e.g. I came from Montpellier on the south coast of France 1st class to Lille (4 hours). Changed to Eurostar. The second class Eurostar for a one-hour journey was more expensive than the French rail's 4 hour 1st class! Depending on age SNCF have some good Travel Card and discount offers. Check out their site http://www.sncf.fr/en_EN/flash/. Have a great time.Froggie34 (talk) 15:31, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

I've done the trip by ferry, and it can be very cheap; the ferry often sells seat-only tickets for around £10 return, and the shuttle bus to Caen is also cheap. It is, as stated above, a long journey. While taking the overnight ferry means you can sleep through it, that's not very comfortable, unless you pay extra for a cabin. I believe that some sort of fast ferry is due on the route from Spring, but I suspect that the prices might be correspondingly higher. Warofdreams talk 18:32, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks so much for the detailed answers! That will be helpful. —Mathew5000 (talk) 20:11, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Mike Krzyzewski

Does coach k wear a toupee? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.136.194.75 (talk) 00:39, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Just while traveling from England to France. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:44, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

By Eurostar or ferry? --Anon, 01:20 UTC, December 19, 2009.

Fire Extinguishers

1. What are the gases available for clean agent type portable fire extinguishers? 2. What are their ODP level? 3. Are they useful for all type fire extinguishers? 4. Has they got any approval EN, BIS etc? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.212.91.246 (talk) 04:26, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Our articles on fire extinguisher and ozone depletion potential should give you a start on your essay, but you will need to do some more research. Dbfirs 07:46, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

King Farouk's tortoise?

A recently created article in German Wikipedia states that King Farouk's former pet tortoise died at the age of 270 in Cairo's zoo 2006. This was mentioned in German media the 7th/8th April 2006, e.g. [16]. As I could not find any English source to confirm even any detail of this story, I deem it to be a belated April Fool's hoax to which German media were taken in. Can anyone help with this? --KnightMove (talk) 12:45, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Are the German media somehow unreliable? Why would an english source be needed. What is magical about the English language that its sources are trusted more than sources written in other languages? --Jayron32 19:19, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm not able to do research in Arab, and English is the most-used international language, isn't it? How likely might it be that an event in Egypt is reported by German media, but not by English ones? --KnightMove (talk) 03:59, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't smell right, that's for sure. According to our article on Darwin's supposed pet tortoise, the oldest tortoise lived to the age of 188, meaning that King Farouk's tortoise magically passed that total by nearly a century with nobody noticing. Of course, that article is then contradicted by our article on longest-lived organisms, though the claim for 250 years in the case of Adwaita has some serious holes in it as well. Any claim to suddenly being the longest lived anything needs serious citations for believability. Matt Deres (talk) 00:16, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

face skin

Well thats no medical advise i need as such at all. But i would just like to know something realted to the face skin in general. We have the winter season in my country and m afraid always to wash my face with the cold water. i always use a lil bit more warm than the luke warm water. Will that effect my skin and give me wrinkles. Becaue somebody told me to wash face always with the cold water and that keeps the skin wrinkle free. Expect an honest opinion..... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.228.59.66 (talk) 14:23, 19 December 2009 (UTC) (Question placed in separate section. Caesar's Daddy (talk) 14:36, 19 December 2009 (UTC))

Can somebody tell me that where my question is moved ? In which seprate section? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.228.59.66 (talk) 16:11, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Don't worry it's here! It now has its own title and can be edited separately. Now to answer your question. Cold will tighten and tone the muscles and tissues of the face, and this may be where the idea came from regarding it prevents wrinkles. However, on its own cold water will not adequately clean the face, even if you use soap, and so hotter water is recommended. Some people recommend to clean the face with water as hot as you can stand on your face, but then to splash cold water on the face to tighten the tissues. Personally I think wrinkles are more a product of genetics and environment: if you smoke, for example, you will get wrinkles regardless of what you put on your face. One sure way to get wrinkles is to worry, so do what you think suits your face and stop worrying! --TammyMoet (talk) 16:44, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Wrinkles are going to come with age, so the only sure method of avoiding them is to to die young and leave a good-looking corpse. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:49, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanx "TammyMoet". I don know who you are but thanx for the advise. I got it now. I dont smoke though... but there are lot of tensions i have right now regarding my work so i think thats could be the reason and yes i undsnd that as my age would grow i would get wrinkles but who needs the untimely wrinkles. So thanx a lot...... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.228.59.66 (talk) 17:22, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Christmas

Where do the colors red and green come from for Christmas? --70.245.189.217 (talk) 15:52, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

That was discussed at some length in one of the recent ref desk pages. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:21, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

It would be helpful if you gave a reference to where this discussion is. 87.113.128.40 (talk) 16:22, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Or the OP could look for it. He won't learn anything if someone else does his work for him. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:48, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Or someone could show him how to do it. I typed the words 'christmas red green' into the Reference desk search box and got this result, I hope that helps. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.109.225.220 (talk) 16:58, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Name of a footwear

I forgot what it is called. It's something that you wear around your lower legs, sometimes over your boots, and sometimes secured using a strap, that prevents snow, insects, dirt etc. from getting into your boots or pant legs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.49.9.184 (talk) 16:32, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Gaiters. 75.41.110.200 (talk) 18:03, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. --173.49.9.184 (talk) 19:13, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Could also be puttees. 89.243.188.42 (talk) 20:15, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

And also Spats. 222.152.174.224 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:24, 19 December 2009 (UTC).

Do Androids Dream of...

Whilst reading a few questions back about King Farouk's tortoise, I was reminded of a quote printed at the front of some copies of Philip K Dick's book Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep. I rememeber it was something about a giant tortoise which was given to a king by Christopher Colombus(?) or something. Anyone know what this is or where I could find out online? Could even shed some light on the above question.91.109.225.220 (talk) 16:53, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

It appears to be the quote at [17] (this also appears in some apparent copyright violations of the entire novel online). The tortoise was apparently given by Captain Cook. Warofdreams talk 18:57, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Oh yeah, see Tu'imalila.91.109.225.220 (talk) 19:36, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

If you are into tortoises then another novel which includes one is À rebours by Huysmans. 89.243.188.42 (talk) 20:18, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Time to expand the List of fictional turtles (and tortoises). I also added the one from Momo. Felis cheshiri (talk) 12:16, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Underwear

Alright, so I was watching this video, and my eyes couldn't help but be drawn to his undergarments, due to the fact that he made the mistake of wearing white underwear with white clothing, so therefore his underwear showed through the clothing (I can't believe his bandmates said nothing to him about his clothing choice, lol). Me and my friend were discussing what type of underwear he was wearing. She keeps insisting it's a thong, I said it ain't a thong unless it disappears into his ass. So who's right? --24.185.203.231 (talk) 22:34, 19 December 2009 (UTC) Oh, and in case it's too much work to sit through the whole video, you can fast forward to 1:45. --24.185.203.231 (talk) 22:37, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Looks like normal Briefs to me. Have to ask...what could he wear under white-clothing that wouldn't be a mistake? Seems of any colour white is the best one to go with (unless you're trying to make the pants stand out more). Similarly were he going 'commando' that video would be, well, not my kind of viewing ny156uk (talk) 23:40, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Nude or black underwear would have been a wiser choice, it would not have shown through (I'm a girl, I should know these things, and so should he, since he was gay), especially considering the material the outfit was made of (looked like spandex or lycra to me). Wearing white underwear with white clothes just highlights the undies, you have no idea how many times I've seen women make that mistake, particularly in the summertime. Of course, if he were going commando, well his bandmates would probably be too busy rolling on the floor laughing to play their instruments. On the other hand, he'd be displaying his glorious God-given assets (I could tell in the video he had a cute ass, among other things), and that would've made the performance much more enjoyable for me ;). --24.185.203.231 (talk) 23:58, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Ignoring all the other stuff in your post, black underwear and white clothing will do nothing but show the black underwear, especially if the pants/whatever are tight and/or thin. Anyway, that could be considered a thong in a number of instances, but usually is probably not thin enough to be definitively called one. Still, anal floss not a requirement. ~ Amory (u • t • c) 04:40, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Taking the fabric of the outfit he was wearing into question, you're right about that. Sorry if I was gushing a bit at the end of my last post. :) --24.189.85.202 (talk) 06:30, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

There seems to be some agreement with 24 that flesh coloured may be better [18] www.ehow.com/how_4464787_look-good-white-pants.html (blacklisted site) although not everyone agrees they're right even if they're writing for the same site www.ehow.com/how_4471780_choose-which-underwear-wear-under.html . I can't offer any much more from personal experience although it did occur to me flesh coloured may work better. According to those refs, black may work if you have fairly dark skin and I can buy that but Freddie Mercury wasn't really that dark so I'm not convinced black underwear would work well with any white fabric. And I'd definitely need stronger convincing that Rupert Grint for example should wear black underwear if he's wearing white. Nil Einne (talk) 15:30, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

It might be a two-piece, with a seperate unitard and tights. The "underwear" could be where the two parts overlap. He is wearing the top back to front. 89.242.211.123 (talk) 16:57, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Home Alone Movies, and real-life

Just watched one of my christmas favourites Home Alone 2 (lost in New York) and got me thinking about how crazy the things the bad-guys get happening to them are. In the spirit of christmas, and appreciating this isn't ideally suited to the refdesk (hoping good-will will let it pass) i'm asking...What would be the likely real impact (healthwise) to an individual based on what they are subjected to (ignoring whether what happens is realistic or not). To get started some things that occur are

• Happens to Marv
• Electricuted with his hands on the taps
• Falling 2 floors (walking through the door)
• Bricks thrown from a 3 story building, hitting head
• Happens to Harry
• Head/hat set on fire, dunks head in bleach
• Bag of tools drops on his head
• Happens to both
• Plumbing pipe (metal) smashes them in the face, knocking them down though a hole to the floor, then drops on them afterwards. ny156uk (talk) 23:36, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

• • Any one of most of the items listed would likely either be fatal or cause devastating injury. This is Three Stooges style / cartoon style violence, where getting a skull-fracturing injury results in an "Ouch!" ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:42, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, yeah I kinda guessed, was hoping to add my comedy-fun home-alone high with a list of 'x broken bones, 2 heart-murmours, 70% burns on scalp etc. etc. rather than a general overall approach (though appreciate not really what the refdesk is for :-)) ny156uk (talk) 23:49, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Marv is probably dead from any of those. Harry probably has a bad concussion, maybe death. Boy, it would have been a different movie if Marv had just died early on. "We the court rule that the defendant, Kevin McCallister, had many other options to avail himself of before resorting to premeditated murder..." --Mr.98 (talk) 01:16, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Whilst I'm not advocating trying this, I would have thought it very unlikely that someone would die from electrocution in the USA. I've had a number of 240v shocks and am still here - I would think that 110v would make you jump, but is unlikely to kill you. --Phil Holmes (talk) 17:08, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm not an expert either, but I think it makes a lot of difference whether the "path of least resistance" goes through your heart or spine. Current that goes in one finger and goes out through a different finger on the same hand is a lot less dangerous than current that goes in one hand and out the other. So the kind of electrical accident where you're fiddling with something with your hands and you brush your hand up against both contacts is much more survivable than the kind where you're standing in a bath-tub and touch one conductor of an exposed wire with your hand. APL (talk) 19:31, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

I think Harry would survive the traumas mentioned. It's surprisingly hard to kill somebody from a blow to the head unless the impact occurs in the region of the medulla oblongata (interfering with life support functions) or breaks the skull. The bleach might cause his death from skin cancer in later years, perhaps after early release from prison on the grounds of good behaviour and having shown remorse, which again would have been a very different movie. Felis cheshiri (talk) 12:32, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Bleach exposure would hardly cause skin cancer? DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 14:06, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

"While the authors suggested that using these cleaning products may significantly increase the cancer risk, this conclusion appears to be hypothetical"... so no, probably not. (There was a recent scare about hydrogen peroxide hair bleach, too.) Felis cheshiri (talk) 16:08, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

With regard to the other methods of death, our article on Electric shock#Issues affecting lethality discusses the likelihood of death arising from this - it appears to suggest that common household electrics are not that likely to kill someone, although it is possible. The article on defenestration doesn't cover the likely effects of falling a couple of stories, but I'd suggest that it would depend on how you land, and on what - it might well lead to broken limbs rather than death. Warofdreams talk 17:13, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

December 20

Celeb question

On page 38 of the most recent edition of The New Yorker, "World Changers," there's one of those myTouch3g ads. Who's the guy with Phil Jackson and Whoopi Goldberg? The ad says his first name is Jesse. I'm sure I ought to know who this guy is, but I have no clue and he appears in a lot of ads. I wish I knew how to provide a link. Thanks. InspectorSands (talk) 04:55, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

If you're referring to this ad then it is Jesse G. James. Dismas|^(talk) 04:58, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, that's the same guy. Thanks. Is that show so famous? Never heard of the guy. Feeling old all of a sudden. InspectorSands (talk) 05:18, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Purely WP:OR here but I know that I can't go for more than a week or two without seeing an WCC shirt or hat. And not just on teenage kids but adults as well. So, yeah, it's popular. Dismas|^(talk) 07:31, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

That show is kind of popular, but the only reason that guy is famous is because he's married to Sandra Bullock. Adam Bishop (talk) 16:14, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Car Accident

Our brand new car was recently involved in a front end collision. The damage is relatively minor on the whole but I am wondering whether the damage bill is likely to be greater due to the car being turbocharged. The front mount intercooler has sustained significant damage and as a result, I am left wondering whether there is likely to have been any damage to the relevant pipes to the turbo (likely) and, most significantly, if the engine would be affected. (Possibly turbo as well?)

Also, is there any other damage I should look for in such accidents?

Thanks in advance. —Preceding unsigned comment added on 06:36, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm not a car mechanic, but my first car had a front-end accident where it skidded on black ice into the back of a car which had a towbar fitted. Despite the only visible damage being a towbar-shaped dent in the bumper, the car was a write-off because the impact had "cracked the sub-frame", which I believe is a part of the chassis. Should be worth getting it checked over professionally. --TammyMoet (talk) 10:34, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

If you have insurance, it's best to just let them sort it out. Dismas|^(talk) 11:28, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

market structure

Is nestle milk Pak Pakistan a monopolistic or perfect competition. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.37.43.52 (talk) 09:29, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Which teacher gave you this question? :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:31, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Please do your own homework.

Welcome to the Wikipedia Reference Desk. Your question appears to be a homework question. I apologize if this is a misinterpretation, but it is our aim here not to do people's homework for them, but to merely aid them in doing it themselves. Letting someone else do your homework does not help you learn nearly as much as doing it yourself. Please attempt to solve the problem or answer the question yourself first. If you need help with a specific part of your homework, feel free to tell us where you are stuck and ask for help. If you need help grasping the concept of a problem, by all means let us know. Comet Tuttle (talk) 17:15, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Checking monopoly and perfect competition might give you some clues. Grutness...wha? 21:20, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Australian search details - town/cities,postcodes,region,states

Sorry but I am at a bit of a lose end searching for australian town/cities,postcodes,regions and states as I want to down load the complete excell spread sheet as per below example;but for the whole of Australia

EXAMPLE

Town/city, postcode, region, state

Sussex Inlet,2540, Southcoast, NSW

I notice that you have the information but I cannot find it all together at one point.

Please advise if you can be of help.

Many thanks

Geofmac —Preceding unsigned comment added by Geofmac (talk • contribs) 13:45, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

You could download the entire Postcode database from Australia Post here. It's available in CSV. Nanonic (talk) 14:11, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

porcelain trade marks

what porcelain company used a gold bell as its trade mark?Beanyxxx (talk) 15:24, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

This site (http://www.oldandsold.com/pottery/usa3.shtml) has pages and pages of marks, a bell appears reasonably common so you'd need to look and try find one that matches. On the page I linked there is 'Bellmark Pottery Co, Trenton, N.J" so it could be them. ny156uk (talk) 21:19, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

first class

On an average flight did anyone actually pay the full $10,000 for a ticket or is everybody an upgrade? Blueframe (talk) 16:26, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

I think the airlines keep this information confidential for competitive reasons (and to not anger all their full-fare-paying First Class passengers), but this chatroom thread has some allegedly knowledgeable people talking about this question. One guy claimed it was an average of 1 full-fare First Class revenue seat per international flight (he probably means transoceanic), and the others have some sort of corporate discount. It's all OR, so take it with a grain of salt; I haven't found any real statistics. Comet Tuttle (talk) 17:22, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

A good long time ago I remember a newspaper (Sunday Times I think) showed a seating plan for a particular flight. There was a huge range of fares paid for the same class of seat. It really does pay to shop around.Froggie34 (talk) 18:18, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

ways of getting into first class

without paying or being a long member of a rewards program? Blueframe (talk) 16:33, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

This is a list of some tips on trying to get upgrades. Mostly you have to pay or use your miles. Not listed in that article: Be an airline employee. They get to fly for close to free, and are seated in First Class if the space is available. Comet Tuttle (talk) 17:18, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

But if there isn't space in First they may have to make do with a jump seat, which is probably worse than economy/coach. --Tango (talk) 17:38, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Enter a relationship with a member of the cabin crew. Fly on his/her flights. Take holidays together, pay Econ, get on-board upgrade from friendly crew.Froggie34 (talk) 18:16, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Reebok - Irish's edition?

Does Reebok produce an Irish edition for its shoes? I mean, one without the Union Flag?--Quest09 (talk) 19:20, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Eating Human Faeces

Literature and stories that I have read (especially European literature) seem to have a heavy emphasis on the consumption of human faeces. Sometimes there is a fetishistic/sexual motive for it, a la the drinking of urine and golden showers, but simply the eating of the faeces is often either metaphor or a plot device. For instance, in the 1975 film Salo, eating of feces was meant to be a indictment of the modern food processing regime, so I read. In any case, none of the people who eat faeces in these stories seem to be any worse for the wear. Having not known anyone that has eaten human faeces (I do, however, know a few people that have swallowed urine), I do not know from firsthand experience what the effects of faecal consumption are. What are the risks of eating human faeces? Will it be harmful to just eat some once in a while? Any insights or experience into this matter you may have would be highly appreciated. Torkmann (talk) 19:56, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Try coprophagy (if it's blue). DuncanHill (talk) 20:16, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Try it? I think I'll pass, personally... ;-) --Mr.98 (talk) 20:27, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

2 Wikipedians 1 Cup anyone?--Jayron32 21:36, 20 December 2009 (UTC)