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*:The problem, as before, is [[WP:SYNTH|synthesis]]. The sources are not providing an overview of "extortion by eunuchs in India", they are examining ''specific instances'' of extortion. They cannot be used for a general article. The Washington Post source is better, but the content therein belongs at [[Hijra (South Asia)|Hijra]], not at the title being discussed here. <span style="font-family:Papyrus">[[User:Vanamonde93|Vanamonde]] ([[User Talk:Vanamonde93|Talk]])</span> 00:07, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
*:The problem, as before, is [[WP:SYNTH|synthesis]]. The sources are not providing an overview of "extortion by eunuchs in India", they are examining ''specific instances'' of extortion. They cannot be used for a general article. The Washington Post source is better, but the content therein belongs at [[Hijra (South Asia)|Hijra]], not at the title being discussed here. <span style="font-family:Papyrus">[[User:Vanamonde93|Vanamonde]] ([[User Talk:Vanamonde93|Talk]])</span> 00:07, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
*I would agree that the take on the topic is too synthetic. Pulling together all kinds of news reports on "crimes done by group X" has historically been treated very carefully on WP (also for obvious [[WP:NPOV]] and sometimes [[WP:BLP]] reasons), ''except'' where the topic has already been synthesized for us by 3rd parties. Even if that is the case, the necessity for splitting off from an existing article needs to be demonstrated, which I am not seeing here. --<span style="font-family:Courier">[[User:Elmidae|Elmidae]]</span> <small>([[User talk:Elmidae|talk]] · [[Special:contributions/Elmidae|contribs]])</small> 07:56, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
*I would agree that the take on the topic is too synthetic. Pulling together all kinds of news reports on "crimes done by group X" has historically been treated very carefully on WP (also for obvious [[WP:NPOV]] and sometimes [[WP:BLP]] reasons), ''except'' where the topic has already been synthesized for us by 3rd parties. Even if that is the case, the necessity for splitting off from an existing article needs to be demonstrated, which I am not seeing here. --<span style="font-family:Courier">[[User:Elmidae|Elmidae]]</span> <small>([[User talk:Elmidae|talk]] · [[Special:contributions/Elmidae|contribs]])</small> 07:56, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
*Draftified. I will go as far as to argue that anybody who [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Draft:Extortion_by_eunuchs_in_India&direction=next&oldid=1133761340 writes] "{{tq|Hijras are Indian eunuchs who extort money from passengers on trains}}" needs to be topic-banned either for trolling or for incompetency. The line is a blatant misrepresentation of source, and close to hate-speech. [[User:TrangaBellam|TrangaBellam]] ([[User talk:TrangaBellam|talk]]) 18:25, 30 January 2023 (UTC)


== RfC: Should we replace Infobox settlement with Infobox Indian state or territory in Indian states and union territories pages ? ==
== RfC: Should we replace Infobox settlement with Infobox Indian state or territory in Indian states and union territories pages ? ==

Revision as of 18:25, 30 January 2023

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Merge discussion

Hi there, I have suggested merging Recognition of same-sex unions in Andhra Pradesh with Recognition of same-sex unions in India. The article appeared in NPR queue and I felt there is not very much that merits a standalone articles but I welcome your opinions. I am not an expert on this subject and would love to know your insightful opinions in the discussion. Best, ─ The Aafī (talk) 12:37, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

See  Courtesy link: Merge discussion. Mathglot (talk) 16:09, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I commented there, but adding my support for the merge here as well - there isn't enough to warrant a separate article for AP at the moment,and the merge is a good idea. - Naushervan (talk) 04:12, 20 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

An inbox for Indian states and Union Territories

A proposal, an inbox for Indian states and Union Territories. How about?

There is some work, Template:Infobox Indian state or territory please give a review or contribute.

After a proper development, can it be used as an infobox on Wikipedia pages of Indian states and territories ?

{ I know this template has many mistakes and many tasks are not fulfilled with documentation, my knowledge of wiki markup language ( wikitext ) is not enough, it is inspired by other present templates and infoboxes. Please help the development of this template by pointing out errors or correcting them . Thank you very much. } Tojoroy20 (talk) 10:59, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Rajput Mali

Is anyone familiar with the Rajput Mali topic? The subject's notability seems questionable. To make things worse, an SPA has moved it to a dubious title without any discussion: [1]. So, someone needs to move it back without leaving a redirect. - NitinMlk (talk) 20:24, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've moved it back. --RegentsPark (comment) 21:22, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

GAR notice

Tirunelveli has been nominated for a community good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Onegreatjoke (talk) 18:49, 20 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

GAR notice

Uttar Pradesh has been nominated for a community good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Onegreatjoke (talk) 01:14, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move at Talk:Malaikottai Valiban#Requested move 21 January 2023

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Malaikottai Valiban#Requested move 21 January 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. UtherSRG (talk) 13:33, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Good article reassessment for Economic development in India

Economic development in India has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. —Femke 🐦 (talk) 21:16, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Villages in India

I've noticed that sometimes Indian villages are created in the format "Name Village". Some examples can be seen at Category:Villages in Amritsar district. So are the villages called "Village" or is it just the name any any necessary disambiguation. Using a couple of examples. Should Abdal Village remain at that title or should it be Abdal, Amritsar or Abdal, Punjab? (Ah. Bad choice as Abdal Village and Abdal, Punjab are duplicates. I'll redirect the first to the second for now. Should Hamja Village remain as is or become Hamja, Hamja, Amritsar or Hamja, Punjab? Should Chande Village remain at that title or should it be Chande, Amritsar or Chande, Punjab? CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 22:51, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Afaik, unlike US, there is no consistent naming guidelines for living spaces of India. Every time, every village gets a disambiguator seen most appropriate by the creator, leading to several duplicates, some of which I fixed myself. When the same name/word is used for a town, sub-division (tehsil), and district, it is often unclear what one article is about. Often, the distinct information on the district and town would be merged together because it is unknown what the article is about. That feels like NYC & NYS merged together because the scope of article is unclear. Further issues arise due to variations of spellings, official spellings generally follow a (semi-)IAST system (but not always), while unofficial spellings arise due to pronunciation or other reasons, and then there is one British spelling that they created due to their inability to pronounce Indian words. So, it is very common for a town to have 2 or more articles, each based on the different spelling. —CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 06:34, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. My biggest concern is that "Village" disambiguator. I looked through the archives and saw some discussion but no real conclusions. There was a guideline at one point but it got deleted due to it be created by a banned user. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 16:50, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
My impression is that is quite common in Indian media and perhaps official-speak to include "village" as though it were part of the actual name, but really it isn't - unlike say the UK, where "Village" often designates the older part of what are now sprawling suburbs or small towns (Wimbledon, Hampstead etc). Afaik, the smallest official divisions are the tehsil and mandal, but these are larger than "village" typically means. I'd say we should not include "village" in the article title, unless that seems to reflect actual usage. Johnbod (talk) 17:10, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Here in India, village is just any rural area. Horizontally, the more urbanised & larger version would be a town, and then a city. Vertically, it is the lowest level of governance through the Gram Sabha. A large village or cluster of small ones may have a Gram Panchayat. Several Panchayats together form a Community development block. Horizontally, blocks are on the same level as city governments (nagar panchayat, municipalities, municipal corporations) and no city is ever inside a block. Blocks and cities combine to form Sub-division (aka tehsil, circle, mandal). Sub-divisions are smaller administrative units of districts. Many districts together make up Divisions. Divisions are units of the state. Cities may often lay across multiple sub-divisions or even districts, but not states. All other units mentioned above typically are wholly contained within the larger administrative unit. I've never ran into exceptions on this statement, but I won't rule out the possibility. —CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 22:08, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, but, again, this doesn't really address the question of naming. How often is "Foo village" actually the official or WP:COMMONNAME? Johnbod (talk) 01:30, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
More often than not, "Foo village" is not the commonname. Even if there are multiple villages with same name, we would know from the context which one it is about, typically the one that is in the same district. To refer to a village in other district, we use "village, district" format. —CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 03:35, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I doubt Foo village is the COMMONNAME. Sometimes Village Foo is used, but this is not a rule. The articles in the cat above should probably be renamed. W. Tell DCCXLVI (talk to me!/c) 11:35, 24 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think a reasonable guideline to follow would be [[<Village>, <State>]] generally, and [[<Village>, <District>]] for cases where there are multiple villages of the same name in the state. W. Tell DCCXLVI (talk to me!/c) 11:39, 24 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That seems to be the standard in other places I have seen. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 09:25, 26 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
In my opinion, <village>, <district>, <state> would be a better option, as many village names are repeated over different districts of same state, and for consistency, but I'd take any uniform disambiguation. —CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 12:43, 27 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Draft:India: The Modi Question

Now that it has international coverage and GNG, this would need to be properly created. Perhaps @Kautilya3 @Vanamonde93 @TrangaBellam @RegentsPark @Tayi Arajakate one of you has time for that? — DaxServer (t · m · c) 11:03, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think it is too early for this. The Part 2 hasn't even been aired yet. But I have been thinking about adding the Foreign Office enquiry to the 2002 Gujarat riots and mention the documentary in a footnote. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 11:28, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
And I guess it might have a huge and complicated reception secion too! -- Kautilya3 (talk) 14:33, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'd need to see reviews, rather than coverage of its censorship. The latter is still encyclopedic, given the coverage it has received, but as K says it can be folded into other articles. Vanamonde (Talk) 17:05, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extortion by eunuchs in India

Does someone want to have a look at this new article (as yet unreviewed), regarding scope, factuality, and whether the content could sensibly be merged somewhere? At first glance this seems like an unsuitably broad-brush topic to me, with a number of peripheral issues thrown in. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 16:41, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Elmidae: I'd say that's an accurate characterization; the article is stitching together news stories into a far broader topic than it is reasonable to use those sources for; note also that while the sources do use the term "extortion", it is not an accurate characterization of the phenomenon even as they describe it; harassment, and begging, are more accurate characterizations. I'd say such an article needs to be built around at least a couple of sources that are overviews of the topic, rather than isolated news reports. Vanamonde (Talk) 16:49, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
At best it merits a paragraph in Hijra, or in an overview article on extortion/harassment in India if there is something like that. In its current state, I'd label it a POV fork of Hijra. --RegentsPark (comment) 21:20, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Copying this from my talk page:

  • I have read Vanamonde93's reply that he/she mentioned. I have linked artivcles where Eunuchs killed two newborn babies, and also killed a man for not paying money. I don't understand why he says that is not extortion but harassment, begging. Most likey they don't check all sources properly. I have also mentioned about arrests, public protests.
I didn't mention vernacular media as I found English media.
These are the articles I didn't mentioned, but linking here.
Why eunuchs are allowed to extort money? asks Lokayukta-https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/jaipur/why-eunuchs-are-allowed-to-extort-money-asks-lokayukta/articleshow/35749004.cms Lokayukta is government.
As I have linked many articles, where the name of the topic is extortion, here the word extortyion is used within the article not heading.--India's estimated 50,000 eunuchs are at a crossroads of survival in their shadowy half-world of superstition and extortion. --https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1983/08/07/indias-eunuchs-have-fallen-in-esteem/7779c281-15a0-4fac-8b7f-69db60d4d17c/ Rambo XTerminator (talk) 11:07, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • The problem, as before, is synthesis. The sources are not providing an overview of "extortion by eunuchs in India", they are examining specific instances of extortion. They cannot be used for a general article. The Washington Post source is better, but the content therein belongs at Hijra, not at the title being discussed here. Vanamonde (Talk) 00:07, 26 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would agree that the take on the topic is too synthetic. Pulling together all kinds of news reports on "crimes done by group X" has historically been treated very carefully on WP (also for obvious WP:NPOV and sometimes WP:BLP reasons), except where the topic has already been synthesized for us by 3rd parties. Even if that is the case, the necessity for splitting off from an existing article needs to be demonstrated, which I am not seeing here. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 07:56, 26 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Draftified. I will go as far as to argue that anybody who writes "Hijras are Indian eunuchs who extort money from passengers on trains" needs to be topic-banned either for trolling or for incompetency. The line is a blatant misrepresentation of source, and close to hate-speech. TrangaBellam (talk) 18:25, 30 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RfC: Should we replace Infobox settlement with Infobox Indian state or territory in Indian states and union territories pages ?

Should we replace Infobox settlement with Infobox Indian state or territory in Indian states and union territories pages ?

As India is a federal state ( arguably quasi-federal ), Indian states and union territories should have a wrapper for infobox which represents the democratic individuality, distribution of power and authority as well as the demographic, economic and political features of the division.

This infobox is customised for Indian states and union territories. It gives more specific, constant, described  and dedicated information about the federal subjects and union territories.

Template:Infobox Indian state or territory Tojoroy20 (talk) 20:19, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Unless I'm sorely missing something, this makes sense, since an entire state/territory is not a "settlement" (a town/city).  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  22:17, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why? What does the wrapper do? There is no explanation here or at the documentation as to what the changes are, and as to why they necessitate using other code to call what is in the end infobox settlement anyway. CMD (talk) 01:54, 24 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@CMD, Thanks! for your comment.

Things that are changed and more usable ( I think ):-

> State legislative assembly, Legislative council and national Parliament's type , name and total number of seats, are added (more describe) and already Wikilinked.

> More description and specific information on joining or formation dates and events.

> Symbols of state are now customly added, which makes it very easy to provide or add the values.

> Assembly seal, largest metropolitan area, parameters for whether the capital and largest city are the same, Coastline, HDI, Literacy and sex ratio with their year , rank and values are added. It suggested adding and providing the values in all uses.

> As per the vast diversity of states and territories, it leaves some space to add other particular information.

> The wrapper has many other small changes which make it more usable for INDIAN states and territories.

> Also, it provides a similarity as well as an appearance among the Indian states and union territories. Tojoroy20 (talk) 07:54, 24 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Is an RFC necessary for this? Only 36 pages would be affected, wouldn’t it? Perhaps can you create a sandbox for a state, that'd be useful — DaxServer (t · m · c) 10:41, 24 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Okay.. 36+ (as there are defunct ones like Andhra Pradesh (1956–2014) etc) but still very low numbers — DaxServer (t · m · c) 10:44, 24 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@DaxServer, I Appreciate your comment. But I don't understand exactly what you mean. Whether the infobox settlement should be replaced, there was no need for RFC, or there is no difference between replacing or not replacing.

It's not about 36 or 360, it's about how major the change is and its impact ( more or less ) Tojoroy20 (talk) 22:16, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@ Peter Southwood, You are correct that having an example can help to better understand the magnitude of the change and its potential impact. It maybe can provide a visual representation of the change and it can help us to determine if there are any unforeseen challenges that need to be addressed. I will make sure to provide an example in the documentation subpage, to assist in the assessment process.
- Thanks for your suggestions, stand by.

Sarvaiya

Hi all, I'd like to direct this WikiProject's attention to Sarvaiya. For the past 12 months there appears to have been a lot of edit warring between IPs and users, sometimes new or inexperienced users. The core of the edit war seems to come down to whether or not the sources in question are reliable. As this is not my area of expertise I thought this WikiProject would be best positioned to determine how this article should be shaped, which sources are reliable, and which version of the article should stand. — Czello 12:33, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the article could do with someone taking a close look at it. There has been reversion back and forth between two versions: one that described the Sarvaya as a Rajput clan, and the other – as Koli group. The sources for the latter seem to be better, but that side isn't help by the fact that the IPs that have consistently been pushing it appear to be socks of a banned Koli ethnonationalist. – Uanfala (talk) 12:58, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There's also a question around whether sources from the British Raj are reliable. My gut says they need to be taken on a case-by-case basis, while an IP seems to want to blanket disqualify them. Again, I defer to this WikiProject's experience in such matters. — Czello 13:37, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Anti-Muslim sentiment in India

Calling for your input at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 January 20#Category:Anti-Muslim sentiment in India. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 13:45, 26 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It has been relisted here. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 18:33, 28 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

New parliament building

Input requested at Talk:New Parliament House, New Delhi#Name change, again to build consensus for an RM. W. Tell DCCXLVI (talk to me!/c) 06:02, 27 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move at Talk:S. Jaishankar#Requested move 18 January 2023

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:S. Jaishankar#Requested move 18 January 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. – robertsky (talk) 02:29, 28 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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