Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Pppery

Pppery

The following discussion is preserved as a request for adminship that has been automatically placed on hold pending a decision as to the outcome. Please do not modify the text. The result of the discussion will be posted soon.

Voice your opinion on this candidate (talk page) (36/14/4); Scheduled to end 16:25, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Nomination

Pppery (talk · contribs) – For my second-ever RFA nomination, and first since 2016, I present Pppery, who coincidentally registered their account just a couple days before I started that April 2016 nomination. Since then Pppery has amassed over 66,000 edits (~top 1500 by count). His clean block log, lengthy user log (over 1800 pages moved and 600 pages patrolled) and drama-free talk page attest to his pleasant and civil interactions. Gerda thought he was Precious after only four months of editing! Administrator's Noticeboard search finds just 48 unproblematic items, many relating to him providing technical advice, and some where he reported 3RR violations that resulted in blocks. His top-notch technical abilities caught my attention long ago. He's been very helpful with my merge bot's task 2. I told him he was ready for this back in September 2021. He's been saying he wants to be an administrator since March 2019 and I trust that it's finally time for the community to say that _{his adminship has begun...} – wbm1058 (talk) 05:43, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Co-nomination statement

I'll second what Wbm1058 said above. And I'll also add that in my view, the editor clearly meets my criteria for adminship. I should also probably point out that they are already an administrator on MediaWiki, and a patroller on Commons (Special:CentralAuth/Pppery). And as for "need", they are very active, well, on my watchlist, active nearly everywhere, lol. But in particular, helps out a lot in the more technical side of Wikipedia. And has been helping out at WP:CFD, where there has been an ongoing backlog of late. All in all, a worthwhile candidate. Please hand them the mop so they can get to work : ) - jc37 20:16, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Candidate, please indicate acceptance of the nomination here: I accept the nomination. I have never edited Wikipedia for pay. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 16:25, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Questions for the candidate

Dear candidate, thank you for offering to serve Wikipedia as an administrator. Please answer these questions to provide guidance for participants:

1. Why are you interested in becoming an administrator?

A: I first expressed interest in becoming an administrator in March 2019, following a spree of fully-protected edit requests to templates and interface messages (most of which were eventually granted, after week-to-month long delays), thinking I could save the admins processing my requests effort. Although my specific interests have moved on, and I was in hindsight not ready to run for adminship then, the underlying motivation, that I want to be an admin because I find myself making regular requests for admin action of various sorts, has remained the same.

To answer the old version of this question: What administrative work do you intend to take part in?, specific examples of venues I will likely work in are Wikipedia:Requests for history merge, Wikipedia:Categories for discussion, and Category:Wikipedia fully protected edit requests, all of which have relatively few active admins or have had relatively few active admins at some point in the past. I tend to dabble a bit everywhere, and will likely do the same as an admin.

The one area I do not intend (at this time) to regularly work in is blocking - if I run into a blatantly disruptive account or IP that needs blocking, I will probably block it, but I don't intend to make that a regular occurrence.

2. What are your best contributions to Wikipedia, and why?

A: This is difficult to answer because I work in many areas that are difficult to compare to each other. If you are looking for significant content improvements, see Magic: The Gathering rules, which I took from having lots of unsourced content to the current state of every single claim being sourced and almost every single claim having a secondary source.

If you are looking for significant tech projects, see Template talk:Tfm/Archive 1#TfM in template documentation (2016), where I fixed a longstanding bug causing Wikipedia:Templates for discussion notices to display incorrectly in some cases, Module:XfD old (2019), which implements the backlog table shown at the top of deletion discussion venues, or the major rewrite I did to Module:Authority control in 2021 (discussed at Template talk:Authority control/Archive 11#Discussion example of the new look after the RfC).

Another way one could answer this question is to look at the 13 barnstars I've earned from other users over the years, listed on my userspace.

Personally, though, I think my best contributions are not any of those but rather the many little things I've done: 18,000 mainspace edits, often to obscure articles no one else is editing, 600 edits to Wikipedia:Help desk and 550 to Wikipedia:Village pump (technical), often providing technical assistance to another user, etc.

3. Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or have other users caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?

A: First some really old stuff: I did behave disruptively and in hindsight possibly should have been blocked in 2016, and also was a major player in Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/RexxS/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Technical 13/Archive#08 April 2019 and some other silliness from around that time.

Moving on to more recent times, I'm a regular participant in deletion discussions, which naturally involves people disagreeing with me from time to time, and have been in my share of routine content disputes, as my talk page shows. I don't think I've gotten into anything more serious than that recently.

When I get stressed out over something or other, I tend to take a wikibreak for a few days, which happens fairly regularly. This pattern will probably continue as an admin.

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You may ask optional questions below. There is a limit of two questions per editor. Multi-part questions disguised as one question, with the intention of evading the limit, are disallowed. Follow-up questions relevant to questions you have already asked are allowed.

Optional question from Barkeep49

4. You call Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/RexxS/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Technical 13/Archive#08 April 2019 "silliness". It's not clear to me what part of all that you find silly nor what you have taken away/learned from that experience. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 16:36, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

A: What I am saying was silly is how that one interaction led to a lot of drama on both sides which wasted a lot of energy, and almost made me quit Wikipedia, but in practice didn't amount to anything in the end. All that was really going on was back in early 2019 was that RexxS and I disagreed over some technical stuff. I probably should have respected that disagreement more and pushed my own point of view less. After the RfA, although I continued doing some of the same cleanups, I tried to reduce my level of interaction with RexxS, and haven't (to my knowledge) gotten into any kind of conflict of that sort since.

Optional question from AirshipJungleman29

5. How do you pronounce your username? Is it "peepeeperi" or "peepeepee-eri" or just "peri" with a really explosive "p sound" or something else?

A: I'm not consistent, and have used several different pronounciations. The name is a corruption of Perry (given name) and is unrelated to "Peppery", if anyone cares.

Optional question from Shushugah

5. Tabs or spaces?

A: As someone who makes regular edits the module namespace, which uses indented code, this actually does have an impact on my Wikipedia edits. When editing modules written my other people, I try to stick to the existing convention. When I write modules from scratch like Module:RfX tally (actually used on this very RfA), then I appear to have used tabs, but I don't really care

Optional question from Shushugah

6. What is the most silly discussion you have participated or witnessed here and how did you engage?

A: I'm tempted to say "responding to this question on this RfA" :P, but in reality it's difficult to beat a meta-discussion about how to title April Fools deletion nominations, to which I suggested an idea that nobody else agreed with. And no, I won't carry out my suggestion if that RfA passes.

Optional question from Willbb234

7. You mentioned on 19 July that you were concerned about a lack of content creation coming up in your RFA. Do you believe that content creation is a good indication of suitability for adminship?

Obviously not.Not necessarily The most important trait of an admin is to know when one knows what one is doing. I believe have experience in the areas I intend to admin in. Perhaps content creation provides experience that would be helpful in closing AfDs, or in blocking people, or in some other areas of adminship, but just as importantly it doesn't provide experience in the technical aspects of adminship where I intend to focus.

Optional question from Reaper Eternal

8. What would you say is your best article? It does not have to be one you started (Lord knows we have enough random articles already!); just an example of one you put significant time into improving.

A: Definitely Magic: The Gathering rules (which I already mentioned in Q2). I have 18,000 mainspace edits, but most of them are small cleanups to large numbers of articles, not large changes to small numbers of articles.

Optional question from Trey Maturin

9. You don't use edit summaries almost a third of the time (getting close to half the time in some months). Why?

A: I would say the biggest reason is either that I am doing an utterly uncontroversial syntax fix, commenting on a discussion (in which case an edit summary doesn't mean much - the reply tool uses "Reply", which is obvious since pretty much every talk page edit is a reply - also note that the edit summary usage tool appears to count edits with only the automatic section summary as having no summary). The other time it happens is when I am doing some sort of mass cleanup, in which I have a habit of going a bit fast and thus not using an edit summary when I probably should. If someone is confused about one of my edits with no summary they are welcome to ask me and I will try to explain what it did and why.

I have now enabled the "Prompt me when entering a blank edit summary (or the default undo summary)" preference. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 20:50, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Optional question from Pharaoh of the Wizards

10. You have created 62 articles out of which 42 are deleted can you please explain why ?

A: Because the Xtools deleted pages tool counts deleted mainspace redirects in the "deleted" list, but doesn't count undeleted mainspace redirects in the live list. If you properly include redirects, you see 1362 creations of which 42 were deleted.

Optional question from Floq

11. If you prefer to address my concerns about user category CFD/RFD closures directly in the Neutral section, please feel free. If you're aware of the RFA taboo against disagreeing with commenters directly below, I can't fault that at all, and so here's a place you can do so instead.

A: I can totally understand why you (and others) are concerned about this, and I am willing to agree to stay away from closing contentious user category discussions since, and this is a direct quote from WP:INVOLVED, it's a decision [...] about which I have strong feelings, and will instead participate in them.

Optional question from L235

12. Thank you for standing. This is a followup to Q7, where you wrote that you don't intend to focus on closing AfDs, or [] blocking people, or [] some other areas of adminship where content creation provides experience that would be helpful. As an administrator, you will come across a number of areas in which you can use the tools, even outside of those you originally intend to pursue. Do you intend to refrain from taking actions in areas where content creation is important experience, and how will you determine what those areas are? If you do feel qualified in the future to enter those areas, how will you approach that transition? I also invite you to expand on your answer to Q7 here, if you so desire.

A: First off, I was clearly wrong in the initial (now struck) version of Q7 when I said "Obviously not" - it's not at all obvious, and I should have known that. My thinking was on the lines of "if I thought content creation was a significant indicator of suitability for adminship, then I wouldn't run". On to the rest of the question, I do intend to refrain from taking potentially-controversial actions in those areas. Obviously decisions that make a direct impact on content count here, but I'm also aware of the implied social aspects explained at places like User:Ritchie333/Why admins should create content, or the concerns people sometimes raise about admins without content creation taking admin action against content creators, and will keep those in mind. I don't think it's possible to answer If you do feel qualified in the future to enter those areas, how will you approach that transition - I'll make that decision in the future, but it's really a matter of gaining experience, listening, and learning from what the other admins do. I could not have told you that I would undergo a significant namespace shift toward mainspace in 2021 at any previous time, for instance.

The one exception is that I will continue doing new page patrol in pretty much the same way as I already have been, since I held that right prior to adminship and have not (AFAIK) received any significant flak over that activity.

Optional question from Guerillero

13. Have you ever edited from or otherwise had access from any account other than the one currently at RfA? If yes, would you be willing to disclose them?

A: No. But I edited logged out for a while before creating my account.

Optional question from Danbloch

14. What does _{it has begun...} mean?

A: "It" originally referred to "a new era of editing after the drama relating to the RexxS RfA". Since then I liked the signature and saw no reason to change it, even though I have moved on.

Optional question from Paradise Chronicle

15.If elected, would you support a block if someone questions your actions?

There isn't really enough context to answer this question. The best I can say is that questioning my (or other admins') actions is a normal part of the day-to-day operation of Wikipedia and not something one would block over.

Optional question from Lightburst

16.Almost 16% of your edits have been deleted. It looks like many admins are well under that percentage and I am under 7%. Can you tell us why you have a high number of deleted edits?

A: It looks like the main explanation is that I do a lot of deletion tagging (both for speedy deletions and for deletion discussions), which results in a lot of deleted edits.

Optional question from Z1720

17. Thank you for volunteering for this process and added responsibility. One of the areas you want to work in (as stated in your response to question 1) is CFD, where admin close discussions and determine consensus. In a discussion with multiple viewpoints (where consensus is not obvious) what process will you use to determine a CFD discussion's consensus?

A: This sort of question is very difficult to discuss in the abstract, especially since "with multiple viewpoints (where consensus is not obvious)" is a rather broad descriptor. So far when non-admin closing CfDs I've been thinking in more of an I know it when I see it style rather than following any specific process. At least early on I intend to close CfDs in a similar way to my NACs of mostly uncontroversial cases, and will gradually develop a specific process to follow and branch out to more controversial areas as I become more experienced.

Anyway, CfD (at least from a quick glance of the current unclosed discussions) tends not to get that many especially controversial situations, and well, if in doubt or unsure, don't close.

Optional Conflict Resolution questions from Maile66

18. Admins often have to deal with conflicts between editors and other admins. In these two scenarios, the editor being complained about is someone you've worked well with, or otherwise have developed a productive editing relationship with. As an admin you would be pulled into some of the incidents. As an admin, you can block other editors, and even block other admins.

A. User BravoBee is someone you respect, or just plain like working with. They have complaints filed against them at WP:ANI for an ongoing for combative behavior towards other editors. BravoBee's friends chime in to defend him, while on the other side editors are listing and sourcing specific incidents. Other admins hang to the rear and try not to be involved.

B. ANI failed to resolve BravoBee's behavioral issues, so a case is opened at ArbCom. Things get worse while the case is divided between those who list specific incidents, and BravoBee's friends who defend his behavior.

How would you deal with these two scenarios, either as an admin or just as a friend of BravoBee? — Maile (talk) 05:07, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Discussion

@AirshipJungleman29 - You know, now that you mention it, I'm curious about that too. In my head, I guess I mentally read it as "Peppery". I hope that's been appropriate : ) - jc37 16:57, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

I suppose it doesn't matter much in a typewritten environment; however, still, I prefer to adresss people (even in my head) by what they prefer to be called. So with at in mind - and with apologies - I stand corrected. "Perry" it is : ) - jc37 17:05, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Damn, I've now got the Perry the Platypus theme stuck in my head. First time anyone's ever said that in an RfA. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 19:45, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

In my head I hear it similarly to 'pippery', but instead of a 'pip' I add a normal plosive. SWinxy (talk) 20:27, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

• Links for Pppery: Pppery (talk · contribs · deleted · count · AfD · logs · block log · lu · rfar · spi)
• Edit summary usage for Pppery can be found here.

---

Please keep discussion constructive and civil. If you are unfamiliar with the nominee, please thoroughly review his contributions before commenting.

Support

1. Admin without tools. I hope FFF has selected a baton image. Courcelles (talk) 16:35, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

   Note for the far future reader: Courcelles alludes to the WP:ADMINBATON. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 00:18, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

2. Support net positive.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 16:36, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
3. No concerns from where I'm sitting. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:39, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
4. What do you mean Pppery's not an admin? Whose idea was that? Folly Mox (talk) 16:45, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
5. Support Partofthemachine (talk) 16:45, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
6. Support: why not? — TheresNoTime (talk • they/them) 16:48, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

   I have read the concerns raised below by those opposing — they do not sway my position of support, as Pppery remains a solid WP:NETPOSITIVE. I would however suggest to them that should this RfA pass, they spend a moment reflecting on the constructive comments many have given. — TheresNoTime (talk • they/them) 21:40, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

7. Support: thank you for volunteering! ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 16:59, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
8. Support. Another mop at CfD is sorely needed, and I don't see a reason not to trust Pppery with one. -- Tavix ^(talk) 17:01, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
9. Support: Don't see a reason not to. (EDIT: Even after the concerns raised by other users, I still find myself in support of this candidate. While I understand the concerns brought up by some regarding their CfD participation, I don't think it's egregious enough to warrant an oppose, especially considering the candidate affirmed that they will stay away from closing contentious discussions. The lack of major content creation is a bit iffy, however, I doubt they will participate in areas where having an extensive content creation background would be needed, so not a huge issue.) ULPS (talk) 17:08, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
10. Support: Some less-than-perfect behavior seven years ago and less than a year into an editor's time on the project is more endearing than worrying. The SPI stuff is unconcerning. Good luck! ~ Pbritti (talk) 17:16, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
11. Support: Excellent understanding of policy and a great gnome. Mdewman6 (talk) 17:27, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
12. Support will be a net positive to the project. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 17:27, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
13. I've heard of him before, and nothing too concerning as yet. Do heed Floq's advice if applicable, however. (EDIT: This support is greatly weakened, however, by the candidate's attitudes towards edit summaries and content creation. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 17:39, 31 July 2023 (UTC)) – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 17:33, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
14. Support - For some reason my memory failed me and I thought they were already an admin. Excellent candidate!--NØ 18:09, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
15. Support: outstanding technical work, excellent behind-the-scenes knowledge, and having the tools will augment their editing. Pppery is already familiar with the tools from MediaWiki. No temperament issues that I can see (if the CfD discussions are the worst of it then it's small potatoes). Edit summary usage is not a valid metric: the point of an edit summary is to explain the non-self-explanatory, not to write one for the sake of filling a blank box.
    I generally like to see content creation, and Magic: The Gathering rules is weak. Many sources are at least usable for uncontroversial content: Paste, Polygon, The Daily Dot, Screen Rant, Game Rant, Comic Book Resources. But I recognise Dot Esports as generally unreliable and there look to be many blog sources. This preprint from arXiv is not good for Wikipedia use (though I've encountered this body of literature before and it's extraordinary). Anyway, in Pppery's case I don't think the tools are going to be used in cases where content creation knowledge would lead to a different decision. So long as Pppery knows where their current strengths lie, I don't see an issue. — Bilorv (talk) 18:29, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

    As a minor note, WP:VG/S treats Dot Esports as generally reliable and Screen Rant/Game Rant as less than reliable. Izno (talk) 20:01, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

16. * theleekycauldron * _{it has begun...} 18:58, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

    More seriously, I think this is a place where the general rules of thumb we use might fail us. If I took Izno at their word that the candidate has become less combative, and held the candidate to their promise of a limited admin role in usercats, I think what's left over (edit summaries and content) doesn't really bother me. If edit summaries and weak content work made the candidate a net negative to CfD, we would've found that out before at least one CfD admin decided to nominate Pppery for the same. If they move slowly and deliberately and stick to where they have expertise, I think Pppery will make a great admin. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 18:58, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

    Oh, and I've been pronouncing it /ˈpipɜːri/ in my head :) theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 18:59, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

17. Pppery remind me, if you would, but have we fallen out somewhere along the path? I've got a feeling it is so, but I can't find any trace of it if so. I was going to oppose "Per Q7" and the litany, but actually, I found it a refreshingly honest answer. While I do—as a "content creator" [where's my Kardashian-number of page watchers, guys?!]—understand (and appreciate) the ethos that an admin should know the pressures writers are under, and, concomitantly the policies that come with article writing, I also think that there's an exception to every rule, á la Rexxs, Trappist the Monk etc., whereby technical proficiency in needed areas—and no content creator can claim to not rely on many of those self-same same technical tools—can if not outweigh then match in lading that weight. Afterall, if I had to demonstrate technical ability before being let loose on a featured article, then Lua Modules and basic markup would leave as big a hole in my brain as the hole in my. The edit-summary thing is also bizarre. I mean, you indeed had it pointed out that a low e/sum. count could be a potential weakness before you lodged this application, but that you didn't rush to change anything indicates strength of purpose. Good. Admins need to have strength of character before they can start worrying about pleasing all the people all the time. After all, while the edit-summary prompt script is useful—I use it myself—since we allow (effectively encourage!) summaries so minimal that a noob might dwell in confusion ("r", "rv", "rvv"—!) than the usefulness of many of our edit-summaries compared to blank ones might be questioned in their efficacy in the first place. When push comes to shove, the only thing I could come close to as a reason for opposing might be, pace, your choice of nominators; a glance down the list of those supporting already indicates that you would not have had a problem finding others from the corps. But it's not so egregious a misjudgement that it suffices to affect my vote. Looking good, Winthorpe. SN54129 19:07, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

    I'm not aware of any falling out. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 19:10, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

18. All in all, Pppery is a good egg. He's dedicated, talented, prolific. Making Pppery a sysop will improve the project. Pppery, when you receive the tools, use them carefully and well, and keep in mind: as a sysop, you wield the tools wherever you go, even when you're not using the toolset. Indeed, this is often where being a sysop carries the most weight. Best, KevinL (aka L235 · t · c) 19:21, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
19. Support per my criteria. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 19:39, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
20. Support. I have concerns, per the neutral/oppose !votes below, but it's not as if adminship is a one way ticket with no process for counseling admins on their decisions or appealing these. My hopes for seeing the best of this editor outweigh my concerns. BD2412 T 19:44, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
21. Support - Worked with them before. We need people who are technical. No big deal. GMG^talk 20:00, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
22. Normally, the dearth of content work would be a no from me. I don't care about lack of GAs. I had 0 GAs when I RfA'd. But understanding what makes a little-gee good article, and frankly the experience of writing one, is important for any content or user-conduct adminning. But this is one of those rare cases where the candidate says they intend to focus almost exclusively on an area fairly far-removed from content. And so the question is, does Pppery know what he doesn't know? That's implicitly the question for all candidates, but here it's particularly important. And my feeling is... yeah, probably. The candidate has his faults, but I don't think dishonesty is one of them, so I will trust his assessment of what areas he will and won't work in. So I'll support, a bit cautiously, with some advice: Don't block anyone over anything content-related until you've got a GA or at least a few DYKs. Listen to feedback from the regulars in areas you do admin, especially more experienced admins. And please use more edit summaries. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 20:16, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
23. Support. We've crossed paths before at AfD, where I found Pppery to be both civil and well versed in policy. I appreciate their ability to reflect on past actions and like that they've chosen to focus on admin areas that are underserved. I have no concerns and am certain they'll make an excellent admin. Dylnuge ^{(Talk • Edits)} 20:32, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
24. Support. Pppery is a great editor who I always just assumed was an admin already. The dedicated work in templatespace and modulespace makes me confident he will be a good admin. SWinxy (talk) 20:37, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
25. Support - I see no reason to believe Pppery will misuse the tools, and it would be helpful to both them and others if they were an admin. I encourage the candidate to use edit summaries much more consistently going forward; this is especially important for an admin. With regard to content, I don't believe that content creation should be a criteria for adminship. There are plenty of administrative tasks on Wikipedia that are important and unaffected by the ability or desire to produce high-quality content. We need technical and back-end admins too! —Ganesha811 (talk) 20:46, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
26. Support - answer to Q7 is a bit flippant, but nothing in the user's recent contributions suggest they would be unable to provide support to the ≈ c o n t e n t c r e a t o r s ≈. Good luck and thanks for volunteering! -- Ajraddatz (talk) 20:57, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
27. Support - best of luck with the mop Mujinga (talk) 21:10, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
28. Support – I think it's OK to specialize in certain areas of adminship, if you will. Pppery has the skills and knowledge to be a great technical admin (an interface admin, even), and I trust that he is aware of the areas where he is not as strong and will act accordingly. –FlyingAce^✈hello 21:34, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
29. Support. I was also surprised that Pppery didn't already have a mop. We have enough admin work to encourage specialisation, and RfA's preference for content creators leaves us in need of more technical experts. Certes (talk) 21:35, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
30. Support. jp×g 21:45, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
31. Support. I've seen them around quite often on VPT and on various templates and modules, and I'm regularly impressed by their technical expertise. --rchard2scout (talk) 21:57, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
32. Support. I've known Pppery on and off for a bit and I can safely say that if "it" hasn't begun yet, it should begin. Godspeed to the RFA, and Godspeed to more great contributions. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 21:59, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
33. Support. I agree with the use of more edit summaries but that's just a personal preference, being a user who gets watchlist updates with no easy "diff" view. But as someone who does both content writing and technical work, I find no convincing reason not to support. A truckload of created articles (and even more so GA+'d ones) isn't a be-all and end-all in adminship, and it won't hold Pppery back from being helpful in technical spaces. Chlod (say hi!) 22:32, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
34. Support - based on prior interactions in RfD among other places, as well as the reasoning of other supports. I think that Q7 opposes are more dogmatic than reasoned, and Q9 is a nothingburger unless someone has diffs of no-edit-summary for something majorly controversial. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 23:08, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
35. Support with enthusiasm. – SJ + 23:40, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
36. Support. Answer to Question 7 is correct and RfA fetishizes content creation where "FA = good admin". The nominee explains it best, an admin needs to understand where they are competent to act so they don't take incompetent actions (since nobody is great at everything). Uncontroversial edits do not really need edit summaries. The edit I'm making right now has the "support" section header, so it's pretty obvious what this edit does. Chess (talk) (please mention me on reply) 00:01, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

    Hmmm. So RfA "fetishize content creation"? You'd prefer, perhaps, an encyclopedia devoid of content in which admins would spend their time blocking and unblocking each other due to their being no actual encyclopedia to administer? Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:32, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

    That's not what they said. Please don't create extremes. - jc37 01:15, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

    @Beyond My Ken: Content creation and dispute resolution are two different skills. Being an administrator isn't a role where you're expected to create content whole wearing that hat. And in all honesty, bargain-bin content creation nowadays is trivial. ChatGPT can spew out entire articles on virtually anything.

    The value that we as an encyclopedia have is the ability to police content and ensure its reliability. i.e. Creating quality content, which means blocking people that do source manipulation, or closing discussions on content based on policy instead of stochastic word salads, or adding sources to support content that exists.

    Content creation isn't going to be nearly as important going into the future. I don't think you should use it as the singular version to oppose an admin nominee but that's your right. Chess (talk) (please mention me on reply) 04:05, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Content creation isn't going to be nearly as important going into the future

1. "Content creation isn't going to be nearly as important going into the future": We have c. 7.7 million articles of which 8,200 are FA, c. 43.5k are GA and under 5k are either FL or A-class. And you think content creation isn't going to be important in bringing up poor articles to a decent standard? The point about thinking admins should have at least some content in their background is that they show they have skin in the game, so they appreciate what stewardship of quality content is like.

   To try and claim that "ChatGPT can spew out entire articles on virtually anything" is worrying: just as a trial I tried asking for a paragraph on an article I am writing: it fabricated two sources entirely (a book that doesn't exist and an ONDB source that goes to a completely different person). You can try and demean "bargain-bin content creation" or content creators if you like, but admins who don't understand what content is and the effort it takes to create or upgrade an article to a passable standard are not always best placed to deal with the issues at the heart of a dispute. - SchroCat (talk) 09:03, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

2. Support Good answer. Think so similar.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 00:10, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

   The above editor is on the verge of being site banned by ArbCom, due to their lying to ArbCom in the past in order to get un-banned, which they have now admitted doing. I suggest when the ban goes through, their vote be cancelled out -- if not before, considering that they shouldn't have been unbanned in the first place. Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:32, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

3. Support will be a clear net positive as admin. No concerns. Gizza (talk) 00:14, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
4. Support Clueful, has a need, and will be a clear net positive. More should not be required. — Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 01:24, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
5. Support. Have watched this editor closely for several years and have learned a lot from him. Can be trusted with the tools. One of the most sensitive areas on WP is that of template editing and management, and Pppery has been a template editor for a long time, answers edit requests and helps editors quite a lot. Need many more like him! P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^{put'er there} 01:41, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
6. Support My experiences with Pppery have generally been positive. Legoktm (talk) 01:44, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
7. Support -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 01:47, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
8. Support. Based on my experiences with the candidate, I believe he will be a net positive. ✗plicit 01:55, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
9. Support per TheresNoTime. --TheSandDoctor ^Talk 02:59, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
10. Support Because of the strong Q7 oppose arguments, I would put my comments here. First of all, despite not having significant content creation, he still shows a clear judgment and have experience with technical skills, which is desperately needed for adminship. Just a random Wikipedian^(talk) 03:37, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
11. Support At 66k edits, I am generally unconcerned about a lack of content. You don't amass 66k without fundamentally picking up how Wikipedia works. I've seen Pppery comment around a good deal, and have never had an issue with them. I think the "perfectly well rounded Renaissance man" admin is an unattainable goal, and should not be the standard we're using at RfA. That their content work is a little weaker is entirely balanced by their work in gnoming and deletion, and imo gnoming and deletion make one better suited for the slog of admin backlogs than content work does. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 03:47, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
12. Support. I thought they were already an admin. I prefer "Obviously not" to "Not necessarily" but understand that there is significant dispute on this matter - still, they blatantly said that they aren't going to be working in admin areas that need content creation experience, so why does it matter? casualdejekyll 03:50, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
13. Support. In line with JrandWP, I'm adding a comment to my standard "no reason not to" !vote because of the Q7 oppose arguments. I think those editors have got our purpose wrong; we're here to build an encyclopedia. That includes adding content, but as the encyclopedia ages that aspect has gone from 99% of the work that needs to be done to a far lower percentage, and I see no issue with admins and editors who focus on that other work. BilledMammal (talk) 03:52, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
14. Support - I've confidence that we can trust this editor with the mop. Mjroots (talk) 03:57, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
15. Support, I feel pretty confident that he'll have the tools. Sheep (talk • he/him) 04:21, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
16. Support clear need for the tools, not a jerk, clueful. HouseBlaster^talk 04:51, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
17. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 05:03, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
18. Support - Personally, whenever someone puts their hand up for RFA I am a supporter by default unless I see a strong reason to suspect that the editor will misuse the toolset due to malice or by accident due to a lack of experience and knowledge, or they are hostile, uncooperative, or impulsive and hence of a temperament inconsistent with such a responsibility. I am not seeing that with this nomination. Also, it is quite clear that certain administrators specialise in certain areas. Provided a candidate wants to work in an administrative area and can do so, that is what is important. We openly state that some of our best content contributors would not make good administrators. Perhaps some of our best administrators are not necessarily the best at content. It all depends on the candidate and their motivation. — MaxnaCarta  ( 💬 • 📝 ) 05:08, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
19. Support - trustworthy editor. PhilKnight (talk) 06:24, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
20. Support - don't recall any objectionable interactions. Specialization is a good thing to have. JoelleJay (talk) 06:32, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
21. Per Jagmanst. —Cryptic 06:36, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
22. Support - I get some of the issues some people took to Q7, but otherwise Pppery is a fantastic candidate. Opposing candidates for a poor answer to a single question or a lack of content creation (which it is clear Pppery will not be using the tools in) is part of what's wrong with RfA. We can't only accept perfect candidates. JML1148 ^{(talk | contribs)} 07:45, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
23. Support per my RfA criteria. I couldn't disagree more with the Q7 opposes below. Iffy★Chat -- 08:50, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose q7. Willbb234 17:35, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
2. I'm uncomfortable with the Q7 answer, plus the weird reasons for not using edit summaries (which work, I suppose, as an 'ordinary' editor, but when you're an admin are just... bad practice). And Floq's neutral would be an oppose from me if I'd spotted the pattern myself. Sorry. — Trey Maturin™ 17:44, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
3. (edit conflict) Oppose - The answer to Q7 is a massive whiff. However, one whiffed question shouldn't be reason to oppose a candidate, so I dug deeper into Pppery's contributions, especially his self-identified (in Q8) best article, Magic: The Gathering rules. The primary concern with this article is whether it should even exist per WP:NOTHOWTO. Ignoring that, the sourcing leaves a lot to be desired with citations to places like "oshkoshmagic.com" or "coolstuffinc.com". How are either of those reliable sources? In fact, the majority of this article might as well be cited to the official MTG rulebook, which it largely summarizes. A large number of other sources are simply various people's personal guides on to how to play MTG. These mostly appear to be opinion pieces, which are not strictly reliable sources (see WP:RSOPINION). I don't know if Comic Book Resources (CBR) is considered a reliable source. Ultimately, this oppose boils down to an apparent poor understanding of reliable sources. Like Floquenbeam, I invite Pppery to respond either here or on the talk page if he thinks I am incorrect—I often am! I will not feel badgered. Reaper Eternal (talk) 17:57, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

   The article has survived several AfDs. Also for the record: I did not add "oshkoshmagic.com" or "coolstuffinc.com" - they were present in the article before my changes. For the rest, you kind of have a point, but I considered the inclusion of only details that can be found in secondary sources to establish due weight and prevent the article from becoming a trivia magnet as many articles on fiction are * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 18:00, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

   I know you didn't add those two personally, but you did remove the "more sources needed" tag, which generally means that you went through the article and cited it to reliable sources. Reaper Eternal (talk) 18:12, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

   That tag is clearly inappropriate for the article as it stands. --JBL (talk) 18:56, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

4. I largely share Floq's concerns below, which for me is essentially that you'll have supervoting on technical areas of the project that have a content impact since both templates and categories impact the reader. When combined what appears to be a lack of understanding of the central role of reader-facing content on this project and its importance as seen in the reply to question 7 and based on Reaper Eternal's response above, I don't feel comfortable granting access to the admin toolset. If it was just the items Floq raised or just the lack of content understanding, I'd probably sit it out. But combined it really isn't ideal. TonyBallioni (talk) 18:26, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
5. I consider significant content creation to be an extremely important qualification for becoming an admin. Typically, admins -- because they do so many other types of things necessary for the continuing survival of the project -- see a major drop-off in their content work once they get the mop. That's entirely understandable and I make no complaint about it, but it does mean that the admin had better know what it's like as a content creator before they become an admin, because they're not going to get a lot of that experience with it once they have the bit. For me, content creation is the essential aspect of Wikipedia, all other aspects have no meaning or make no sense unless there is an encyclopedia to administer and protect, and that encyclopedia came into existence because of content creators. Because of this, admins really must understand the needs of the content creator when they make the decisions that help to shape our community. For this reason -- lack of significant content creation -- and for this reason only, I oppose the nomination. I make no claims for or against any other aspects of the nominee's abilities or character. Beyond My Ken (talk) 18:56, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

   @Beyond My Ken: What are the needs of the content creator? wbm1058 (talk) 19:15, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

   @Beyond My Ken: following up since I think you wanted me to answer my own question. See Wikipedia:Content awareness, not content creation. Occasionally a content creator may need help with moving a page, or making an edit on a protected page. Maybe they'd like a page they've been working on protected because they've become tired of reverting persistent vandalism. Or they'd like to make that persistent vandal get off their page, by blocking them. You doubt that Pppery would do things like that for you if you politely asked him to? Other common "needs" of creators, especially short-term creators such as those driven to us by the Education Program, are basic edits to their creations to make them conform to the manual of style. Boldface the title in the lead sentence. Make the section headings use sentence case rather than title case. Add a references section. Categorize the article. Remove draftspace-only templates. Etc, etc. I don't think one needs to be a particularly skilled editor to make these sorts of edits. wbm1058 (talk) 19:54, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

   Thanks for answering a question which I withdrew. I'll note that Wikipedia:Content awareness, not content creation, which you cited, is an essay, and one which primarily represents the viewpoint of a single editor, the creator, since the few other contributions to it have been technical ones. I don't see any reason therefore to take it as the sense of the community.

   As for your response, by the needs of content creators I did not at all mean the kind of simplistic problems needing the mechanical actions that you referred to, which could obviously be handled by any admin of any ability. I was talking about something much more amorphous and more difficult to define. It's the kind of thing that's hard to put into words, that you really need to experience to understand, which is why I like to see admins who have significant content creation experience.

   That's very vague, I know, but it's the best I can do. I guarantee you that the content creators reading this know exactly what I mean, even if they might have difficulty expressing it; who knows, maybe someone can better put into words what I'm talking about.

   In any case, that's the basis of my oppose vote, insufficient content creation. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:28, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

6. Oppose Q7 answer is concerning to me when taken in conjunction with Q1 answer. At the end of the day, this project is built on content, and I would hope those with the admin toolset understand that content creation is the foundational part of the project. If the main reason you want the admin toolset is to save yourself the time and hassle of dealing with other admins and asking for permission then I'm not sure it's really necessary for you to have the toolset. I commend your work thus far but I'm just not sure I see your need. IceBergYYC (talk) 19:31, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

   I get the note about content, which is why I asked Q12, but the answer there is satisfactory to me. I would just note that making Pppery an admin would also save other community members, including our deeply shortstaffed pool of technical admins, much time and hassle in approving his work, when his work is quite good and doesn't need that kind of checking. Overall, Pppery's "need for the tools" seems quite clear — more than most RfA candidates. KevinL (aka L235 · t · c) 19:39, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

7. Oppose Q7 is certainly odd, at least in the first iteration of the answer; Q9 is concerning, as i don't think any of those reasons are good reasons not to use an edit summary to help fellow editors; Floq's issues are also problematic. All in all, cannot support. Happy days, ~ Lindsay^Hello 20:06, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
8. Oppose I rarely vote in RFA, but the answer to Q7 bothers me on two levels. One, a person who is a effective content creator on WP would have significant experience with the rules of WP. The fact that the candidate thinks that wouldn't be a good indicator is troubling. And two, even if it was just a lazy mistype, this is an RFA. If the candidate can't muster enough attention to answer questions properly for their RFA, what will they do when they have the ability to block and ban people? Angryapathy (talk) 21:19, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
9. Oppose Answer to Q7 is less than satisfactory and just a lack of content work in general. I’d say it would be a good idea for this candidate to come back when they contribute significantly to a GA or a couple of DYKs or so. — Prodraxis {talk • contribs} (she/her) 21:52, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
10. In my opinion, edit summary usage is a good measure of whether someone is thinking about *any* editor on the project anyone can edit, or they're just thinking about themselves, or maybe their ideal collaborator. A bit like comments in code, for the programmers out there. If the defense of low edit summary usage boils down to "it's easier for me, and someone else can easily figure it out with extra work, so it's not really a problem", well, that's not very respectful of other people's time and energy, is it?
    Maybe this is just another way of saying that I agree with TonyBallioni and Floquenbeam and BMK's various concerns, in the sense that an attitude I would describe as "I understand things my way, so it's not my problem, it's your problem" seems to be driving objectionable behavior identified in different areas. Stepping on rakes in the answers to Q7 and Q9, answering Reaper Eternal's entirely legitimate concerns about content quality with "the article has survived several AfDs"... well, I just don't see a path toward support. Indignant Flamingo (talk) 23:45, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

    Can you give an example of an edit that Pppery has made where you believe it was a significant oversight not to have left an edit summary? --JBL (talk) 23:50, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

    My reasoning is based on the overall pattern of edit summary usage and what I think it indicates about an editor's stance toward other editors, in case that wasn't clear. If you want to have an argument about one specific edit summary, you'll have to argue with someone else, I'm afraid. Indignant Flamingo (talk) 23:58, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

11. Oppose based on the candidate's answers which feel rushed. I do not want an administrator rushing headlong before thinking things through (see Q7). My criteria is that an administrator must protect content and content creators before anything else. When someone likes to operate in deletion they need to have have a consistent and significant content creation record. Pppery has no good articles? Pppery has no DYKs? I think @Beyond My Ken: has summarized very succinctly. ...the admin had better know what it's like as a content creator before they become an admin Lightburst (talk) 01:47, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
12. Oppose. I had a look at their recent engangement with an editor on their talk page. I believe their reasoning was sloppy. They used various short-hand arguments that are not valid. They were dismissive of the editor with whom they engaged,-not civil or collaborative. Jagmanst (talk) 03:41, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

    I want to point out the sloppy reasoning provided was used to justify the deletion of a new article about a bonafide college with proper accreditions. See how they: gutted an article. This is a proper college attended by likely thousands of students, being told on dubious grounds they are not notable enough. I this speaks to their lack of content creation experience, if nothing else.Jagmanst (talk) 05:01, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

    For what it's worth, Jagmanst, I have a lot of experience in content creation and I would also redirect that article in less than a heartbeat. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 08:26, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

13. Oppose per answer to Q7 and all the reasons set out in User:Ritchie333/Why admins should create content. My attention was first drawn to Pppery when I received an off-wiki complaint over their edit warring over a comment on Stanley Kubrick, and although this was a long time ago, nothing they've really done since has dissuaded me that they don't really have the diplomacy and tact for communication I expect in an admin. A quick look at their contributions shows them getting into an argument at User talk:Pppery#Why are you reverting despite necessary submissions?; while they might be right on the merits, clearly a more diplomatic tone should have been used as it's now ended with their opponent saying they will oppose them at this RfA. The brusque way they have dismissed lack of content creation experience and insufficient edit summaries doesn't help either. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 07:54, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
14. Oppose Let me start by saying that I think that Pppery is a productive good faith editor, and I hope that they will try again in a while, after addressing the concerns expressed here. I believe that content creation is one of several important factors to evaluate when deciding whether to support an RfA candidate. I personally consider it to be the most important factor in most cases, although I will not support a great content creator who is also a jerk. I do not require candidates to have been the main author of multiple GAs and FAs, but I do expect significant creation of new articles or at least substantial expansion of prose content on a significant number of articles. Transforming crappy stubs to informative start grade articles is both relatively easy to do, and important though underappreciated. I see none of that in the candidate's history. Gnoming is OK but writing solid encyclopedic prose is the most important thing here by far. Writing good content that sticks is the only way to develop a deep understanding of our policies and guidelines. I understand that the candidate intends to work mostly on things like templates, merges and categories. That is all useful "behind the scenes" work, but I feel confident in saying that very few readers come to Wikipedia to see which templates have been edited or which categories have been created or deleted. Our readers come for informatively written, neutral, well referenced encyclopedia articles. Also worth noting is that new administrators often get involved in areas they did not anticipate before they got the toolkit. The candidate states that they have little interest in blocking. I never anticipated doing a lot of blocking, but once I became an administrator, I developed an interest in dealing with spammers, undeclared paid editors, self-promoters and assorted trolls, and have blocked 8640 accounts in the five years since my RfA. I believe that has been of significant benefit to the encyclopedia. The candidate identifies Magic: The Gathering rules as their best content work. While it is true that the candidate has the most edits to that article with 80, it is also true that they are #6 in terms of added text, having written only 0.7% of the content. Their next most edited article is Polyglot (computing), where again they are #1 in edit count with 59, but do not rank in the top 10 editors in terms of added text. Their third most edited article is Amphetamine, where they are in neither the top ten in edits nor in added text. On the edit summary issue, Help: Edit summary says The Wikipedia community strongly encourages editors to provide meaningful edit summaries. As an administrator, I have declined to block editors who do not provide edit summaries because they are not required by policy, but I am reluctant to support an candidate for administrator who has declined to consistently do things that the community strongly encourages. Similarly, in a hypothtical scenario, I would be reluctant to support a candidate who has made an effort to write an autobiography, even though that is only strongly discouraged rather than forbidden. I also have some concerns regarding temperament. Floquenbeam mentioned the CfD discussion about Category:Wikimedians who oppose rebranding the WMF, where the candidate wrote last year Every time I start a deletion discussion on a user category, it gets polluted with "let's randomly ignore established consensus" non-arguments like this. To me, that comes off as "I am consistently right and everyone who opposes me is consistently wrong" reasoning, and it rubs me the wrong way, even if it was not intended. My decision has been affected also by the opposing comments from TonyBallioni, Reaper Eternal, and Beyond My Ken. Cullen328 (talk) 08:27, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Neutral

1. I'm not willing to oppose yet, but I do have one concern. Pppery and I have both occasionally been involved with CFDs and RFDs about user categories, and he has pretty strongly held views (opposite to my own strongly held views, or else I probably wouldn't be expressing concern, but I am not complaining about his opinion) that usually do not close in his favor, and often close as "no consensus". He has said multiple times in those discussion that he "is just enforcing the rules" and expressed exasperation with those with differing views. I have no idea if this occurs only in user category discussions, or other areas. I worry that Pppery's "strong urge to put everything into the order that they perceive should exist" (as stated by RexxS in the SPI linked by Pppery above, and as agreed with on the same page by nominator Wmb1058) will result in his closing borderline CFD or RFD discussions in a way that he favors (that is, in a way that he sees as enforcing the rules), rather than interpreting consensus or acknowledging that there is no consensus. I'd welcome anything that would ease my mind about this. Is it only user categories, or does it happen elsewhere? If it's isolated, maybe agreeing to not do user category closes (he would, of course, be more than welcome to keep discussing them; I'm just concerned about his closing them)? I'm not sure what would be best, and I'm not sure what would keep me from opposing, and I'm not sure if I'll even oppose if I'm not happy with the response. But this is a serious worry of mine. By the way, the rule about the candidate not responding to opposes or neutral comments is stupid, and we should abolish it. But I acknowledge that some people frown on it, so Pppery, if you prefer I'll mold this into a question and you can address it there instead. --Floquenbeam (talk) 17:16, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

   Floq, do you have a diff or two as an example? Speaking for myself it would be helpful as a person yet to vote and I also quite imagine it would be easier for Pppery to respond (whether here or in questions) to something specific. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 17:19, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

   I'll dig a few examples up. I'm going to have to hunt for them. Floquenbeam (talk) 17:21, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

   Probably a discussion for elsewhere. but I wholly agree with your sentiment about commenting - a candidate should be able to comment where-ever the heck they want in their RfA. This process gets cotentious enough without adding gag rules. - jc37 17:31, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

   Tangentially related, but I have no qualms about the taboo against candidates directly responding to the "peanut gallery" – it enforces a desirable sense of purdah and "gag rules" tend to make the process less, rather than more, contentious. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 17:35, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

   Here are 4, all nominated on 1 April 2022:

   • Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 April 1#Category:Former vandals who now contribute constructively
   • Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 April 1#Category:Wikimedians who oppose rebranding the WMF
     • relisted at [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 April 28#Category:Wikimedians who oppose rebranding the WMF
   • Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 April 1#Category:Wikipedians who feel disappointed with WMF
   • Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 April 1#Category:Wikipedians assessed by WikiProject Users

   Two where others proposed deletion:

   • Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 January 10#Category:Wikipedians also known as Le Poisson de Trypto
   • Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 January 10#Category:Wikipedians confined to the peanut gallery

   A more recent one:

   • Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 May 11#Category:Abusive, mean, petty Wikipedians

   --Floquenbeam (talk) 17:38, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

   Is that last one the correct link? I'm not finding it. ULPS (talk) 17:42, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

   Sigh. No, it's not the right link. I'm an idiot. hang on... Floquenbeam (talk) 17:44, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

   I assume you are looking for Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 May 11#Category:Abusive, mean, petty Wikipedians * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 17:45, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

   thank you, cutting and pasting too quickly. I've changed the original to make it easier on others. Floquenbeam (talk) 17:47, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

   To be clearer on what I think I'm looking for: there is an admin in several of those discussions (who I won't drag into this) who is, if anything, even more vehement than Pppery about these categories. But they have never to my knowledge closed a contentious user category discussion, so I have no concerns about them being an admin. An agreement from Pppery to do the same would go a long way in easing my mind. Floquenbeam (talk) 17:52, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

   Thank you, Pppery, this resolves my concern. If nothing else comes up, I anticipate switching to support. I won't oppose based on content creation (that would be throwing stones in a glass house); having empathy/understanding of content creation is a legit concern, but your situation is not a deal-breaker. I still get a ... vibe ... that you might be a little too "enforcement"-driven, rather than "assisting"-driven, but it wouldn't be fair to oppose based just on that feeling. If this succeeds, please consider that. Your lack of desire to block people goes a long way towards addressing that. --Floquenbeam (talk) 19:49, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

   Floq: I don't understand why you think that being "enforcement"-driven, rather than "assisting"-driven isn't a valid reason for opposing. Maybe things have changed since I joined this merry band some 18 years ago, but I thought it was a given that admins were not cops, they were more akin to janitors. Is that not still the standard? Why is assisting not what we're looking for in an admin? Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:40, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

   Presumably Floq's point is that it wouldn't be fair to opposed based on something as inconcrete as a vibe. --JBL (talk) 23:44, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

   Maybe he would say that, maybe he would say something different, I'd like to hear from him what he thinks. For me, Malcolm Gladwell sufficiently expressed the value of "vibes" and "gut reactions" and similar rapid cognitions in Blink that I now tend to take them more seriously then I once did. Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:22, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

2. I have long gone back and forth over Pppery's suitability as an admin and have been quietly waiting for the notice to pop up (because I think RFA is worth a shot for him). As Floquenbeam says, Pppery is a person with strong views which he also expresses at TFD in addition to the others. I have observed a general mellowing since he came on to the scene A While Ago and what I think is general adjustment toward "it's not the end of the world if the discussion doesn't end the way I want", which is a positive quality (and about where I'm at also). I tend to agree more rather than less with his opinions there these days, and when I don't I can see where he's coming from. Izno (talk) 17:38, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
3. I am pretty torn at the moment. The lack of content creation doesn't concern me as much as the lack of edit summary usage. I'll wait until 100 people weigh in before I make a decision. Scorpions13256 (talk) 03:15, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
4. I have unresolved concerns regarding Pppery's attitude to content creation and edit summary usage but respect their technical work, so I wind up here for now. Schminnte (talk • contribs) 05:25, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

General comments

• As someone who submitted to RfA on a "I just want to be helpful where I can" platform, I wish more people would do so. In thinking about L235's question, I'll just note that when I ran I had virtually zero interest in doing blocking. And yet my admin stats say I have blocked 145 people, which I find astounding every time I look at it but is also small potatoes compared to people who really do that work and could rack up 145 blocks in a month. Barkeep49 (talk) 18:20, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

The above adminship discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the talk page of either this nomination or the nominated user). No further edits should be made to this page.