Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Christianity/Noticeboard: Difference between revisions

Browse history interactively

← Previous edit Next edit →

Content deleted Content added

VisualWikitext

Inline

Revision as of 04:07, 1 November 2008

Shortcuts

Christianity Project‑class

	Christianity portal This page is within the scope of WikiProject Christianity, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Christianity on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChristianityWikipedia:WikiProject ChristianityTemplate:WikiProject ChristianityChristianity articles
Project	This page does not require a rating on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.

Template:Portalwarning

Template:WPChristianity sidebar

Archives

Index 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
11, 12, 13

Wikiproject Abrahamic Religions

Hi! I am already a member of this group before any strange questions start getting asked. (I dont know what that was about either but you know I just had a feeling) Anyway I am proposing that a new Wikiproject be formed called WikiProject Abrahamic Religions. Christianity is of course one of the three Abrahamic Religions the others being Judaism and Islam. I don't know what people think about my proposal but for more information and/or to show your support, as the project cant start without consensus please go to Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals and view the Abrahamic Religions Section. (that makes me sound like a dodgey TV advert doesn't it?). Once again any comments or support would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. The Quill (talk) 11:12, 31 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents... I'm not sure a Wikiproject Abrahamic Religions is necessary. There are already Christianity, Judaism and Islam wikiprojects in existence, as well as Wikiproject Religion - which most likely covers the scope of your idea, to deal with comparative issues in religion. Why do you propose this project would be different? Why not name it perhaps Wikiproject Comparative Religions under the Religion wikiproject umbrella? Kristamaranatha (talk) 18:11, 31 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Because it is only for Abrahamic Religions and this would meen that other non-Abrahamic Religions would be compared. Also please could I request you place comments on the wikiproject talk page. Thanks The Quill (talk) 15:01, 2 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I share the view of Kristamaranatha and is skeptic of the scope and use of such a project mainly bcoz already Christianity, Judaism and Islam as well as Wikiproject Religion wikiprojects is in existence and very active too-- TinuCherian ^{(Wanna Talk?)} - 10:20, 5 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Do the other Abrahamic religions not count, or are you simply unaware of their existence? jonathon (talk) 16:37, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Quill has indicated elsewhere that he knows comparatively little about the other Abrahamic religions. He has however yet to demonstrate that there is a particular need for a separate project to deal only with content common to all the abrahamic religions. I seem to remember having read that there was a similar proposal for the Dharmic religions as well. The fact that it has gotten rather little support is another factor which leads me to think that the proposal, while perhaps of interest to that editor, is of little specific interest to most others. John Carter (talk) 17:34, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Theology workgroup

The proposed theology workgroup is now online, here. Any suggestions, improvements, and ideas are more than welcome - as are interested editors. Pastordavid (talk) 19:05, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Category cleaning

A proposal to clean up the articles and sub-cats in Category:Christian theology can be found here. Any input would be greatly helpful. Pastordavid (talk) 17:16, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Natural Theology and "Astrotheology"

The expertise of those knowledgeable in the subject of Natural theology would be very helpful both in that entry and on the possibly soon deleted Astrotheology entry. There is a content dispute that broke out on the second of the two entries, which has now spilled over to the first. Exactly what natural theology includes and how best to define it are at the heart of this dispute. Thanks for any help. (Note: I am cross posting this on WikiProject(s):Philosophy and Religion).PelleSmith (talk) 21:43, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Numismatics and Charity (virtue)

Miguel.mateo (talk · contribs) insists on re-adding a paragraph about coin-design, perhaps as a coat-rack for a non-free image he wants to include, to the article Charity (virtue) about the theology of caritas.

In the context of the article, this material seems to me to be entirely marginal, non-notable and disproportionate. Which is why I believe it should be promptly removed, as it was when similar attempts were made to try to insert it into Christianity and Charity (practice).

But he won't take my word for it; so I'd appreciate if project members could lend a fresh pair of eyes, and say what they think on the talk page. Jheald (talk) 09:52, 5 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It appears the user has already decided to agree with you. GRBerry 14:38, 5 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Project Newsletter June 2008

The project newsletter for the month of June 2008 is ready to take off at Template:WikiProject Christianity/Outreach/June 2008. Please review ... -- TinuCherian ^{(Wanna Talk?)} - 09:57, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks to John for making this newsletter for the month of June 2008. I have filed WP:BRFA for User:TinucherianBot at Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/TinucherianBot 2. Once approved I will deliver the newsletter to the member userpages -- TinuCherian ^{(Wanna Talk?)} - 14:23, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good to me. Sorry about the delay, by the way. John Carter (talk) 14:37, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

BRFA for Newsletter delivery of TinucherianBot is approved. Now we can have our own bot to deliver the project newsletters -- TinuCherian ^{(Wanna Talk?)} - 10:26, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Quality assessment

I've been driving for the last 17 days to get all of the project tagged articles assessed for quality, thus emptying the top level of Category:Unassessed-Class Christianity articles. I'm asking now for a bit of help. When I started, we had more than 600 pages in the category. It is now down to 11 pages, and I'm hoping that you all can polish it off over the weekend while I take a break. GRBerry 20:46, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you GRBerry for your wonderful efforts. Keep up the good work -- TinuCherian ^{(Wanna Talk?)} - 02:44, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, indeed, thank you GRBerry. I think we've got everything except what is in John Carter's userspace. John, could you take the banners off of what is in your userspace; or mark them with "nowiki" tags until they move back to mainspace? Thanks. Pastordavid (talk) 12:59, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject Christianity Newsletter June 2008

The current edition of the newsletter is available at {{WikiProject Christianity/Outreach/June 2008}} and was delivered to the talk pages of the members -- TinuCherian ^{(Wanna Talk?)} - 10:36, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

New Age Pagan/Atheist attack Christianity on "Nazism" article

Recently, new age pagans/atheists have added to the intro of Nazism article "Nazism, particularly its antisemitism, found strong ideological roots in Christianity." This is a clear attack on Christianity by claiming it is an "antisemitic" ideology.. this was added by User:Esimal who has made numerous controversial edits in regards to Christianity, and then re-added by hipster-neo-pagan User:Gnostrat. Why should such a blatant and brazen attack on Christianity be allowed on Wikipedia? Especially such a vicious and untrue claim. - Gennarous (talk) 21:24, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Because it is, at least partially, true. Certainly Hitler drew on a broad stream of Christian anti-semitism, at least for his rhetoric and to garner popular support (see Luther and antisemitism for just one example). Pastordavid (talk) 21:39, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There is enough truth that it belongs somewhere in the article; I doubt it belongs in the lead of the article, but I trust the ordinary editors of the article to sort it out. GRBerry 22:18, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

GRBerry and Pastordavid are unfortunately right. There is a history of anti-semitism and Christianity, and Hitler did use the antisemitic tendencies of Christianity as part of the basis for Nazism. It would be an overstatement to characterize Chrsitianity as anti-semitic on that basis, but not unreasonable to say that he used the existing antisemitic tendencies which can be found in some Christians to his own advantage. John Carter (talk) 22:33, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The new age pagan seems to be using Luther as his basis that "Christianity = antisemtitsm" which is highly dubious since Lutheranism is only a relievely small part of Christianity (when looking at the overall figures). The Catholic Church for example explicitly states that anti-semitism is not compatible with Christianity in the Catechism (the official doctrine of its teachings), also I've never heard of the Eastern Orthodox Church or the Church of England being linked to such things. I'll isolate its mention to Luther's "On the Jews and Their Lies", however I still don't really think this warrants a mention in the intro. - Gennarous (talk) 06:39, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Gennarous, yes I'ma a dirty Neopagan nontheist (so, pig-atheist too), but please, keep New Age out, I hate New Age. --Esimal (talk) 19:06, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Newsletter glitch

The latest newsletter appears to leave all talk page contributions below it in small font. Johnbod (talk)

I noticed that too. Lemme work on it. John Carter (talk) 22:33, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I can't figure out where in the template the font size isn't sealed, so I can't come up with an answer. Let me try to adjust the draft of next month's so it reads normal font size, though. That way the problem shouldn't reappear. John Carter (talk) 22:38, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Adding one more |} to the end of the newsletter will fix it. I will go around and fix the issue on the talk pages with WP:AWB -- TinuCherian ^{(Wanna Talk?)} - 02:50, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Done I have fixed the issue on the talk pages . -- TinuCherian ^{(Wanna Talk?)} - 14:24, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Long Revelation‎

Could someone else take a look at this. It may need a prod as OR/synthesis, but I would like others to see if there is anything salvageable here first. Thanks. Pastordavid (talk) 16:46, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. The author was given notice back in April that he needed to add references to reliable sources.--Carlaude (talk) 17:26, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see anything salvagable. GRBerry 17:48, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Otis Moss III

Article under AFD (and deletion sorted). I think it requires a rewrite but is salvagable. Some sources I found are linked in my AFD opinion. Anyone want to lend a hand - especially anyone knowing more about the American black church than I do? GRBerry 19:57, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Assessments

I added some entries for assessment on the assessment page. Thanks. Ottava Rima (talk) 13:14, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Counter-Reformation

See the requested move proposal (to Catholic Reformation) at Talk:Counter-Reformation. Pastordavid (talk) 15:42, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Help request: Martin Luther King, Jr.

Hello, I would like to request some help with this article, which is under the scope of this project. I fully sourced it over the past week, and I would like to help it get to GA or FA status. It would be great if any editors from this project could look it over, possibly do some copyediting, and give some feedback in the peer review. Thanks, GaryColemanFan (talk) 23:35, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Help please, I'm being slandered

Sorry to distract people from constructive work, but a couple of trouble-making editors have been playing games, interfering with work on an article and getting their way by slandering me and using forceful editing rather than addressing the content issues I raise. I'm afraid I think the only thing that will help is for a few people to come and help take the heat off me.

I'm afraid it will need a little time to do it properly, because these people make edits rather than talking. They've said enough to show they're trouble, but it's the edit style that proves it. They need to be confronted, but that requires a few people other than me to observe the evidence and join me in the confrontation. If a few people answer my request for assistance, I'll start providing links to the evidence. Otherwise, all this just sucks time away we could be using elsewhere.

From what I can see, one of the editors seems to have a "thing" about "God stuff". He already has been warned by others, but he's going to be even more trouble unless we help him realise it's a pointless waste of time. If personal attacks are tolerated, they are encouraged.

Please just sign below if you've got some time and patience, a cool head, and understand why this needs to be done. Hopin' for some help. Alastair Haines (talk) 15:03, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your prayers, I think the problem's solved. Cheers all. Alastair Haines (talk) 19:21, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I was wrong, the problem is not solved. Perhaps this issue doesn't need much more than a few people who are willing to watch the page and ensure edits address content issues, rather than being justified by personal attacks, "majority" opinion or questionable procedural matters. My most recent post and the request for mediation at Gender of God provide a short and simple introduction. Alastair Haines (talk) 21:13, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think taking it to informal mediation is a good way to go. Happy to watch the page. I have no strong views either way. I think it is really important to use reliable sources to support wikipedia's policies of no original research and verifiability. I think through those you should be able to get to a solution. Best wishes --Matilda ^talk 21:34, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Matilda, I really appreciate this. It's a funny thing, I'm defending sourcing and NPOV, so that Hindus and others get a fair say. Also so we don't assume things about God and gender that we may guess, but which are more complicated than we think. I'm not defending Christianity, I'm defending fair processes and respectful editing. I don't really have a "side" myself, except connecting readers with reliable sources, and learning more about what other people think. Alastair Haines (talk) 06:55, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Peer Review

I have listed Ravi Zacharias for peer review in hopes of getting some feedback to get it up to FA status. Any input is welcome. Thanks! Kristamaranatha (talk) 20:33, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Portal selections?

The Portal:Christianity still lacks a biography and a selected scripture for next month. Any suggestions? John Carter (talk) 21:20, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Made a few at Portal:Christianity/Selected content nominations. GRBerry 21:37, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

We still need picture suggestions and scripture suggestions. I only suggested bios and general articles. GRBerry 01:20, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Misplaced confidence?

I am fascinated to see that this project regards the Last Judgement as of "low importance"! Anyway the article is a terrible mess. Johnbod (talk) 00:12, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Don't ask me why, but it wasn't a member of the project, but rather Betacommandbot here, that tagged it as low importance. I agree that the article could stand definite improvement. On a possibly related matter, it would help a lot if we could sort out the importance rankings, at least for the Top and High importance articles. John Carter (talk) 13:31, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've noticed a few other such Low markings from Betacommandbot where I can't see how a bot could have made the call. Feel free to change Betacommandbot importance assessments whenever you feel it appropriate; human assessment is more likely to be reliable than bot "judgment". GRBerry 13:51, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I guess I am the 'culprit' behind this :). See Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Christianity#BetacommandBot_incorrectly_tagging_articles_as_stubs

I asked BCB to do this . The idea was to reduce the huge backlog we had once upon a time

Our project banner is {{ChristianityWikiProject}} 
You need to 
1) If "|importance=" is empty , replace it with "|importance=Low" . Make sure you dont  overwrite if importance is assessed already.
2) If "|class=" tag is empty, replace it with the highest quality assesment from the other project banners on the same talk page.
3) If there are No other wikiproject banners / any assessment already, please use the general  wiki guideline of no of characters for Stub/Start classes and then add the appropriate class  tag for quality

I did this on the folllowing assumptions :-

1) The number of High/Top Importance artilces in unaccessesed articles may be less. On a second manual sweep, we should be able to identify the higher importance articles if any
2) We should not replace the orginal importance assessment if any.
3) The standards for assessment scale for most projects is the same. Hence if there is an already assessment done , we could just reuse the information .
4) Similar automated attempts were done in different Projects like WikiProject Africa - see here.
5) This task for the Bot was an approved task , hence I assumed it to work smoothtly -- TinuCherian ^{(Wanna Talk?)} - 14:17, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ah ha! What you missed is the possibility of Mid assessment; since you thought in terms of Top/High/Low, while the scale also includes Mid. Not that I'm thrilled with our guidance on the importance scale; it currently says "Most people involved in Christianity will be rated in this [Mid] level." That is just ridiculous, but I haven't yet been bold enough to change it. GRBerry 14:34, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, that needs to be fixed, although the phrasing seems to be rather standard. Maybe something like "Most individuals who have had a significant influence on the development of Christianity or specific movements in Christianity will fall no lower than this category." Clearly, Paul of Tarsus and the like will qualify as higher, given the criteria there. John Carter (talk) 15:12, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This shows the unwisbom of these bot runs - there are in fact all sorts of reasons why other projects might give high or even top importance to articles that are certainly of low importance to this project. Better to have no rating at all than a silly one. Looking at the categories, the top-importance ones seem mostly reasonable, though the list is short and has obvious omissions, but the high-importance list is unhelpful - Foot washing, Fear and Trembling (a book), and so on. Johnbod (talk) 15:26, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I guess the importance tag tagging to low was a bit stupid, But the autoassess ( Class tag )based on other wikiprojects was really helpful..-- TinuCherian ^{(Wanna Talk?)} - 15:38, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

We didnt tag "|importance=" based on other projects, It was only the "|class=" tag utitized from other project banners -- TinuCherian ^{(Wanna Talk?)} - 15:42, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ok Johnbod (talk) 15:51, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

On the other hand, Christian art, as stubby a stub as I have seen, not mentioning anything between Byzantine and modern art, was a B class until I re-rated. I give up. Johnbod (talk) 02:42, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Predestination

The articles Predestination and Types of religious predestination have been listed to be merged for over a year. A drive is on to clear out Category:Articles to be merged since April 2007 and this merger could use the attention of someone with expertise in the field, or at least someone who knows more than me. If anyone could take a look, it would be greatly appreciated. --Gimme danger (talk) 22:59, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe someone(s) at Portal:Calvinism can be a help here.--Carlaude (talk) 03:05, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Perfectionism

Why does Perfectionist movement direct to an article about the Oneida Community (which already has its own article)? There is a lot more to perfection theology than this sect that believed "each to be married to every other member of the opposite sex"... Can this be fixed, and a new article about perfection theology be started? Thanks Kristamaranatha (talk) 06:29, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Probably fairly easily. I can't imagine that there would be any serious objection to at the least greatly expanding the existing text of the article, and maybe keeping the current text in only one section of the expanded article, or alternately, moving much of it to the existing article on the Oneida Community and keeping only a summary section in the existing article. John Carter (talk) 21:32, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It might take a bit, but I'll see what I can do to improve the article. Any help anyone can give is greatly appreciated as I'm pretty short on free time these days. Kristamaranatha (talk) 23:16, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Any translators out there?

One thing we could definitely use would be any individuals who can read other languages, as I think we all know that there are a lot of items out there written in languages other than English. I can read German fairly well, but, unfortunately, not French. I say unfortunately because I was just informed of a site from the Burkina Faso government here which gives some biographical material on at least religious leaders there. Are there any of you out there that would be willing to help out in slogging through foreign material if one of the rest of us finds a source in a language we can't ourselves read? John Carter (talk) 01:13, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

We might make a good team; I don't read German, but I have a degree of fluency with French having lived there for a few years. Is there someone specifically you would like to know about on the site above?--Storm Rider ^(talk) 01:34, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

French is my mother tongue, though I hear that African French has a few expressions not understood elsewhere. I may not have a lot of time to write articles on these people, but I'll see what I can do. --Blanchardb-^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}-timed 01:40, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Jerusalem FAR

Jerusalem has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. <eleland/talkedits> 21:56, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Shituf Page

Another editor has requested mediation on the Shituf page, so I looked up the mediation process. The first step is to ask for third party opinion -- which is the reason I'm here.

Shituf, briefly, is a Jewish term applied to the Christian doctrine of the Trinity. The definition of the concept, however, appears to be Arian: lesser beings (the son and spirit) worshipped in junior "partnership" with God. Accordingly, I included a short Christian view section which simply describes that Christianity has formally rejected multiple deities in junior partnership since Nicea.

The contention is whether or not the section should be included.

My argument is that an article describing Jews eating human blood on passover would require a short section describing that Jews actually FORBID such a practice. Accordingly, an article describing Christians in Arian ways would require a short section describing that Christianity actually FORBIDS such a belief.

In any case, since the other editor suggested mediation, I'm taking the first step and asking for third party review.

Thanks.Tim (talk) 13:41, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Tim has given you false information. The Jewish concept of shituf was not created for application to the Christian concept of the Trinity. Judaism has a very absolute idea of what monotheism is. Any worship that diverges from this absolute monotheism is viewed as idolatrous in Judaism. The one exception is where the worship can be viewed as including the One God worshipped by Judaism. In such a case, the other deities or aspects are seen as "associated" or meshutaf to God, and there is a rabbinic view that this is permissible for non-Jews, and not idolatrous for them (though it is still considered idolatry for Jews).

There is a minority opinion in Jewish law that says that the Christian Trinity constitutes shituf, and not avodah zarah (idolatry). This opinion is not based on Christian concepts such as Trinitarianism and Arianism, since Jewish law is based on actions, and not beliefs. Judaism views statements such as "in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" as being contrary to Judaism's absolute monotheism, regardless of whether those three are viewed as separate deities or aspects of a single deity.

The question of whether intent matters in issues of idolatry is asked and answered in the Babylonian Talmud, and the unanimous legal decision amongst the rabbis is that worship that is non-monotheistic or idolatrous in form is a violation of the commandment against avodah zarah, regardless of the worshipper's intent.

Furthermore, Tim sees the issue of shituf as fundamentally connected to Christianity. And indeed, the article on Shituf is written that way. But this is because Tim wrote the article. As a point of fact, shituf applies to other religions, such as Wicca, where a commonly stated principle is "All the gods are one god, all the goddesses are one goddess, and the god and goddess are One."

I think that having a section on "Christian views" in an article on shituf is no different than having a section on "Jewish views" in an article on the Trinity. In both cases, it is non-encyclopedic, and highly polemic in nature. -LisaLiel (talk) 14:15, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi guys -- as I said -- a third party look is in order. In English, Lisa just said you were all polytheists, which is a legitimate Jewish view. My take is that it's nice to have a section saying that you forbid polytheism.

And as for the history of this, the entire concept was created in the Middle Ages in reference to the question of whether Jews could have business dealings with Christians, since they were forbidden to have business dealings with idolaters. The Jewish solution is that, "Yes, they have multiple deities, but they are like junior partners." Loosely defined, "shituf" is "partnership." The context and origin was directed toward Christianity. Christianity, therefore, cannot be excluded from the article without making it polemic.

Again, thanks. You should be honored -- two Jews are asking for YOUR third opinion!Tim (talk) 14:24, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

On the contrary. I don't think this section belongs here. I'm only responding in order that Tim's false statements not be left unrebutted. Shituf is a Jewish concept. I wouldn't create a section on "Jewish views" in articles on Trinitarianism or Arianism or Transubstantiation or any other Christian concept, because that would be inappropriate. Shituf is a particularly Jewish concept, and should not have a "Christian views" section.

Furthermore, I've edited the Shituf article. Tim originally created it with a strong focus on Christianity, despite the fact that it has nothing to do with Christianity, per se. The source Tim brought in the article from the Middle Ages (and the concept of shituf pre-dates that) doesn't even mention Christians.

Tim says that I called you all polytheists. I recognize that we have different definitions of monotheism. The Jewish view is far more extreme than the Christian view. When we say "Hear O Israel, the Lord your God, the Lord is One", we read that "One" as being utterly indivisible. No parts, no aspects, no anything. Even the "attributes of God" we sometimes refer to are seen as things created by God as tools by means of which we can perceive Him in part. By our definition of monotheism, Christianity doesn't measure up. But by the Christian definition of monotheism, I imagine it does. Tim is merely trying to turn this into a holy war by using incendiary terminology in an inappropriate place. -LisaLiel (talk) 14:49, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Lisa -- in the past few days you've called Christians polytheists at least six times. Anyone can go through your contribs or just read the Shituf talk page. That kind of bias needs to at least be admitted. If it's your belief -- be proud of it.

As for the edits -- Lisa can't edit out all references to Christianity on the Shituf page because it's APPLIED to Christianity. When I removed any paragraph that used the word "Christian" or "Christianity" she reverted it as vandalism.

That being said, I no longer care. I have better things to do than to prevent a member of my own religion to promote falsehood to yours. You're welcome to chime in.

Best.Tim (talk) 14:58, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(ec) Lisa's comparisons with "Trinitarianism or Arianism or Transubstantiation or any other Christian concept" are not equivalent. Her own version of the article cites statements about, or interpretations of, Christian beliefs from Maimonides, Rabbi Walter Wurzburger, & Louis Jacobs. It would seem appropriate to clarify the actual Christian position from the horse's mouth, although I am not sure a whole section is necessary. Johnbod (talk) 15:04, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Tim, in a Jewish context, Christians are polytheists. And I don't deny that I used the term. I would not do so in a Christian context, both because it's rude, and because it's not necessarily true in a Christian context.

JohnBod, articles on Christianity claim that the Jewish messiah can be a deity. But I wouldn't use that as an excuse to go in and add a "Jewish views" section rebutting it. You're entitled to your beliefs about our concepts, provided that they are sourced and encyclopedic in nature. So yes, my comparison was apt. -LisaLiel (talk) 15:10, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Christianity incorporates the Old Testament and regards itself as a successor to Judaism, so many Jewish concepts are Christian concepts too. This is not true the other way round. But articles on Christian subjects that include statements or views about the Jewish faith as practised in the last 2,000 years should represent the authentic Jewish view of the matter from Jewish sources, and many do. That is the situation here. Johnbod (talk) 15:23, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

John, the fact that Christianity incorporates parts of Judaism doesn't mean that it's immune to challenges by Judaism on the basis of Jewish concepts. The fact that we don't insert such challenges into every Wikipedia article about Christianity is because Wikipedia is not a place for such challenges. That's polemics, and Wikipedia is no place for it.

Limiting Judaism to the past 2000 years is incorrect. Christians make many misstatements about Jewish concepts that predate Christianity, but Wikipedia is not for thrashing such things out. Nor is it appropriate for Christians to polemicize in articles about Jewish concepts. -LisaLiel (talk) 17:54, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think you've read what I wrote very carefully; at any rate your points do not address it. Johnbod (talk) 18:07, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

John -- BINGO. Thanks. Okay, I need to sign off now and spend some time with my family. I'll look back in Sunday. Best.Tim (talk) 15:29, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please move this all to talk:Shituf. It does not belong here once we have the idea-- we have the idea and those interested can follow it there. --Carlaude (talk) 13:44, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Changes to the WP:1.0 assessment scheme

As you may have heard, we at the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial Team recently made some changes to the assessment scale, including the addition of a new level. The new description is available at WP:ASSESS.

The new C-Class represents articles that are beyond the basic Start-Class, but which need additional references or cleanup to meet the standards for B-Class.
The criteria for B-Class have been tightened up with the addition of a rubric, and are now more in line with the stricter standards already used at some projects.
A-Class article reviews will now need more than one person, as described here.

Each WikiProject should already have a new C-Class category at Category:C-Class_articles. If your project elects not to use the new level, you can simply delete your WikiProject's C-Class category and clarify any amendments on your project's assessment/discussion pages. The bot is already finding and listing C-Class articles.

Please leave a message with us if you have any queries regarding the introduction of the revised scheme. This scheme should allow the team to start producing offline selections for your project and the wider community within the next year. Thanks for using the Wikipedia 1.0 scheme! For the 1.0 Editorial Team, §hepBot (Disable) 22:07, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Christian Page

In addition to trouble with the Shituf page, the user Lisaliel is also trying to eliminate references to "monotheism" regarding Christianity. Case in point, please see recent vandalism [2] of the Christian page. I cannot keep up this extended edit war, and only ask that you be aware that there is an effort to eliminate recognition on Wikipedia of Christianity's self identification as a monotheistic religion. The article of Shituf is equating Christianity with Arianism.

Please be aware of this activity.

Thanks.Tim (talk) 04:57, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Peer review

A peer review of Peter Jones (missionary), an article about a Christian missionary who successfully evangelized what is now part of the greater Toronto area, has been requested. Please leave your comments at Wikipedia:Peer review/Peter Jones (missionary)/archive1. --Blanchardb-^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}-timed 12:33, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A discussion

An important discussion on " Should WikiProjects get prior approval of other WikiProjects (Descendant or Related or any ) to tag articles that overlaps their scope ? " is open here . We welcome you to participate and give your valuable opinions. -- TinuCherian ^{(Wanna Talk?)} - , member of WikiProject Council. 15:03, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Christianity WikiProject Newsletter - July 2008

The current edition of the newsletter is available at {{WikiProject Christianity/Outreach/July 2008}} .Full content Newsletter was delivered to 223 members and Link only content to 5 members by TinucherianBot automatically. To stop receiving this newsletter next time, or to receive it in a different format, please list yourself in the appropriate section here. -- TinuCherian ^{(Wanna Talk?)} - 09:42, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

POV forking at Torah and Pentateuch

Within the last week, Pentateuch has been re-forked off from Torah and the latter massively rewritten to mostly exclude any Christian or Islamic perspective. From my brief reading both articles have significant POV issues as they stand, especially as Pentateuch seems to be written entirely from a Jewish perspective. Mangoe (talk) 15:54, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Do you propose one article with NPOV or two? I think the only problem from a Jewish perspective is that the Pentateuch is a subset of what Jews mean by "Torah" (which includes the Pentateuch, Oral Torah, teaching in general, etc.). I'm puzzled that Pentateuch would be the one with the POV problem. Anyhow, I'm on the Wikiproject Judaism list, and I'll help from our end as well. Just let me know how I can help. Have anything in mind to start?Tim (talk) 16:01, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

After looking at the Pentateuch page... it appears completely unnecessary. All we need is a redirect to Torah. How do we do that?Tim (talk) 16:05, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If you look at the discussion page on Pentateuch, you'll see that it used to redirect, and doesn't any more. So don't be hasty. -LisaLiel (talk) 16:15, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Will do -- thanks for the heads up. I did put a "main article" link in there. That way, if people want to read more they won't have to figure out which of the "see alsos" is the one to look at. Oh - apologies to the rest of THIS page. We've exhausted what we should say here...Tim (talk) 16:19, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Theories about the origin of the Eucharist‎ edit warring

Hey. There's been a bit of an edit war brewing over at Theories about the origin of the Eucharist‎, so I was hoping someone from here could go and take a look. Basically, this edit has been added and reverted. We've got an editor who's trying to push a POV of sorts with edits such as this. There's an RFC pending, but no one has responded to it thus far. If someone could swing by the article and take a look, that'd be great. The discussion starts here‎. Thanks! — HelloAnnyong ^{(say whaaat?!)} 16:14, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Knights of Saint Gabriel

I tagged Knights of Saint Gabriel with the primarysources template, but I'm now wondering if this is a bona fide organisation. I looked at their supposed website: http://diplomaticsociety.tripod.com/ and it just does not look right. See Talk:Knights of Saint Gabriel where I added the project banner. -84user (talk) 23:55, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Christadelphians and Amended Christadelphians

There is discussion at Talk:Amended Christadelphians regarding what content regarding the largest Christadelphian group, the Amended Christadelphians, should be included in the article on that specific group, and what in the main Christadelphians article. All input is welcome. John Carter (talk) 17:27, 12 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dating the Bible

There is discussion on the talk page of the above article regarding how much weight should be given to traditional dating of Biblical works relative to modern academic conclusions at Talk:Dating the Bible#"but according to medieval sources...". All input is welcome. John Carter (talk) 17:48, 12 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Edit-warring on the name of a diocese

Two editors have been engaged in an unhelpful and disruptive edit war concerning the name of a diocese in theUnited Kingdom. I have issued an RfC and fully-protected the page against page moves by anyone until the matter has been fully discussed and a consensus reached by more editors than just the two involved in the edit-warring. Anyone able to is invited to engage in the discussion to help wikipedia improve by reaching a better solution than the unstable edit warring that has previously happened. See Talk:Roman Catholic Diocese of Hexham and Newcastle#What should the name of this article be?. The two names that were being used were "Roman Catholic Diocese of Hexham and Newcastle" and "Diocese of Newcastle and Hexham". Thank you. DDStretch (talk) 13:54, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, I have now realised, after a message from another editor and another administrator and looking at various editing histories, that the same thing has happened mostly today but over the past week for almost all of the dioceses concerning the Roman Catholic church in England and Wales, and it has mostly involved the same two editors. DDStretch (talk) 21:03, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia talk:Reliable source examples#Religious sources proposal

Proposing an example explaining the appropriate use of religious sources in religion-related articles. The intention is to clarify and explain existing policy, not to change it. There have been a number of debates over the years, some of them heated, about whether and what kinds of religious sources should be used. Best, --Shirahadasha (talk) 21:18, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am glad that there is now a bit of a clarification of guidelines here. There was an interesting discussion leading up to this, but unfortunately I didn't find it till afterwards. I am disturbed at how many of the Christianity-related articles are being attacked by fringe ideas such as those of the Jesus Seminar and the Quest for the Historical Jesus. Editors who are pushing these views seem to think that their ideas are the mainstream (i.e. nobody really believes you can trust the Bible anymore, not even the theologians... see, let me quote Spong...etc). Is there anything we can do to make sure there is a balance in these articles? Kristamaranatha (talk) 04:44, 19 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fringe or extreme Christianity

I just discovered this talk page this morning. On April 19, I discovered a Wikipedia article on me http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Joseph_Cormier that has been here for over two years. Granted, the Administrator who created it knew only about my runs for Parliament as an Independent (referred to as a fringe candidate by local media) and nothing about the prophetic Christianity aspect of my being. The article itself does not reflect this, 95% of the information removed to the dustbin of history. The information there does read more like a mini novel than an encyclopedia entry, but the events and stories, I assure you, are true, factual and unembellished. An interested editor would have to read the discussions on the other user talk pages referenced in the section 'Let's build the article together" in the talk of the article. The section 'Favorite Bible Verses' removed to history as not being encyclopedic, were selected to give an general overview of my vision. There is more substantiating information I would like to add to the talk for discussion and inclusion to the article, but until what is already there is refined and restored, that would serve no purpose. I have recused myself, rightly so, of editing my own bio. Hopefully interested editors of Christianity topics will take a look to see what can be done. Peace DoDaCanaDa (talk) 14:14, 15 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have not heard of you. Maybe you could also try at Portal talk:Quebec or Wikipedia:WikiProject Quebec --Carlaude (talk) 14:26, 15 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's no surprise. All information was reported locally only. I did receive this e-mail the morning I discovered the article.

Good morning Mr Ray: thank you for your mails. Sorry, but I am not able to answer directly all the correspondences, and when I have to do so it is by post. Please, do understand that you will not receive any further answer from me, but it is not for lack of respect. I am pleased for your love for the Church and for the Holy Father. Your thoughts have been duly noted. I reciprocate your best wishes of joy, peace and Goodwill

+ Luigi Ventura apostolic nuncio to Canada DoDaCanaDa (talk) 14:37, 15 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Some of you may be interested in this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Kingturtle#Images_Copyright_and_Free

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:East718/Archive_14#Article_under_attack

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ground_Zero#Discussion_of_this_article_-_Other_User_Talk DoDaCanaDa (talk) 16:16, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Molotschna

Hi! I saw that this article is within the scope of your project. So I decided to place my question here. Why does this article use the German transliteration? The article says: "The settlement is named after the Molochna River...", so why the river is translitered "Molochna" and the settlement "Molotschna"? Isn't the right spelling for the settlement also "Molochna"? Thanks in advance and kind regards Doma-w (talk) 12:45, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Judaeo-Christian Web sites

I think I may have offered the use of this before, but I do not remember. If anybody requires any legitimate information on Christianity in general or the Catholic Church in particular, I have a list of them here Ad Maiorem Dei Gloriam for anybody to use. I thank you. --209.244.30.237 (talk) 12:53, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Simple English wikipedia joint project

I was wondering whether any of the members of this project would be interested in maybe helping to develop some of the Christianity content in the Simple English Wikipedia. That wikipedia is of particular use to individuals who are less familiar with English in easier to understand language, although that doesn't mean the content is "dumbed down". Having reasonably high-quality content there would definitely be useful for English as a Second Language students, and probably increase the visibility of some of the content here as well, through additional links there. If anyone would be willing to devote some time to such a project, please indicate that below. Thank you. John Carter (talk) 18:11, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. --Carlaude (talk) 22:41, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I find quickly that we cannot say much in Simple English without explaining your terms. For example, I have created Christianityfooter in Simple English Wikipedia and am looking for feedback on the glosses that will be need to use for all the common Christian terms in it. (Only "Father" and "Son" were already on the Basic English wordlist. All others need a gloss like (Payment for wrong action) for "Atonement" but many are harder to do than that one. See also [3] Please look at it and discuss/ give feadback, etc. I also hope this will lead us to use the same glosses for words in the articles.--Carlaude (talk) 15:24, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

To be completely honest I don't think we need a Simple English Wiki. It takes time away from editors that would be expanding and helping the English Wiki. Has anyone ever used a dictionary before? If someone is new to the English language, they look things up, ask questions. It seems like a waste of time to struggle to put 2 million articles into simple english. Grk1011 (talk) 15:57, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I concur with that feeling.. I 'simply' dont understand why we need a second English Wikipedia and where we divide the boundaries of Eng.WP and simple.WP. -- Tinu Cherian - 16:50, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Simple English wikipedia is designed to be written so as to be readable for those learning English as a second language. There is no constraint on this wikipedia to test for readability. If you have ever tried to learn a second language then I think you would appreciate the gift that the Simple English Wikipedia could be, particularly for adults learning English. The only other way to get reading material which is readable when you have little language skill and knowledge in the early stages of your learning to practice with is to read children's books - a very dull prospect indeed. I concur with the suggestion put up by John Carter and would be happy to help if there is a project developed. Note a good introduction as to how to write such articles is at simple:Wikipedia:How to write Simple English articles noting particularly The language is simple, but the ideas don't have to be. --Matilda ^talk 21:55, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Faith & Values Media"

is, we are told (with no evidence), the nation's largest coalition of Abrahamic faith groups dedicated to media production, distribution and promotion. Etc. Then why all the redlinks, and why does so very little link to it? There's something fishy about the article. Could somebody take a look? -- Hoary (talk) 22:26, 19 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'd say either put a {{fact}} tag on the words the nation's largest or remove that assertion altogether. The rest of the article looks legit. --Blanchardb-^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}-timed 22:37, 19 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Second Council of Ephesus/Robber Synod

Reading the article on the Second Council of Ephesus (AKA the Robber Synod) I see it needs to be rewritten badly. I have added it to the To Do List above under other. The article is long but relies largely or entirely upon a single source, a source with a favorable view of this council. --Carlaude (talk) 20:34, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Simeonites" need article

Samuel Butler's novel The Way of All Flesh mentions a 19th-century sect known as the Simeonites. (Possibly named for someone on the list at Simeon and/or the Tribe of Simeon.) I'm unable to find much about them online, but they were apparently factual and not fictional - http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/tei-ButFir-t1-g1-t2-g1-t13.html . Can anyone begin an article on them, or link to an existing article if appropriate? Thanks. -- Writtenonsand (talk) 18:40, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

s:Wikisource:WikiProject Bible dictionaries

Are there any Wikisource members in this project, if so would you like to help with the above project. I'm trying to revive this project, but the other two members haven't been near it since 2006. At the moment it consists of copying pages of Easton's Bible Dictionary (1897) If anyone's interested please reply on my talk page. Kathleen.wright5 02:55, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Issues of Neutrality for Goa Inquisition

I wish to initiate a dispute on the neutrality of the articale found under Goa Inquisition, which discusses the inquistion in Goa, India under Portuguese rule. This article appears to present a biased view of the subject. Much of the body of the article uses loaded language extensively. The sourcing of this article appears questionable as well. For example, in paragraph four of the title page, some very broad allegations of atrocities are made using a quotation attributed to Voltaire (himself a radical opponent of the Roman Catholic) as its sole support without any other verification. Later on, a quote presumably taken from one of the artical's sources makes fierce allegations against the Portugues ("...in the name of the religion of peace and love, the tribunal(s) practiced cruelties to the extent that every word of theirs was a sentence of death") without any support or commentary on the validity of the statement. In fact, the opening statements of the article states that according to the surviving records, out of the 16,202 persons brought to trial over the inquistion's 251 year lifespan, 57 were executed. This hardly indicates that "every word of theirs [the Portuguese] was a sentence of death". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kraken66 (talk • contribs) 09:49, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Template:BibleAsFact

I have proposed this template for deletion in accordance with Wikipedia's deletion policy. Please see the discussion at Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2008 July 30. Best, --Shirahadasha (talk) 14:27, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

FYI, Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Religion#Templates would have been a better place for this notice. And for future Christianity specific cases, Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Christianity#Misc.. GRBerry 14:54, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Emerging Church pages

A lot of the Emerging Church page has substance and badly referenced. I have therefore started adding in citations and references for some of the material there, so that it shifts out of the identified problems. It is an important movement that needs to be written up better. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KerryDawkins (talk • contribs) 12:21, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

New pages for churches. Definition of notable as applies to churches

I noticed that there are pages which list with a random selection of churches in each state. Usually these churches refer to historic buildings but occasionally to congregations in a non-notable building. I also noticed that there is a section for deleting Christianity pages ([4]), so before I consider creating a church page, what are the criterion for it being notable enough to deserve a page? Calebu2 (talk) 12:06, 7 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That deletion sorting page is not "for deleting Christianity pages". It is a way of listing active deletion discussions about Christianity related topics so that editors who are interested can find them easily. The best editors treat each case on its merits - but every editor comes with different knowledge background; for example I have a lot easier time determining the merits of a Christianity related topic than I do of an Islam or Buddhism related topic, hence being able to find the Christianity related topics lets me opine where I can actually give an informed opinion. There is a division of thinking among the community. There is a presumption that a national historic building is always notable and merits an article - so buildings meeting that description that are or were churches tend to have articles and get listed/categorized. Some think a church is a congregation and want sources on the congregation and its activities. There is no presumption of notability for non-goverment organizations, so Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies) is the usual standard. But generally, for any topic Wikipedia:Notability is the primary standard "If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to be notable." GRBerry 14:07, 7 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Edward VI of England

Is undergoing a Featured Article review, please feel free to come and help bring this article up to current Featured Article standards! :) Judgesurreal777 (talk) 17:51, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hail Satan

Members of this project might be interested in the AfD for the above-named article. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) ^{(talk / cont)} 07:18, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yahweh

Perhaps a few calm editors might look at the neutrality of Yahweh, which addresses the tension between Jehovah's Witnesses and Yahweh-related groups. Thank you. HG | Talk 14:24, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Links

I have recently noticed that in the Article: Advent there are no relations to the people that the candles and the prayers said after lighting the Candle(s), Or to 'The holly and the Ivy' which after the candle(s) are lit certain verses are sung to correspond with the prayer and the particular sunday. hannah (talk) 10:15, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cathedral of Magdeburg at FAR

Cathedral of Magdeburg has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. Thank you, Cirt (talk) 02:52, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Prayers

I thought perhaps someone could perhaps do a prayer of the Season box on the Christianity portal hannah (talk) 16:01, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Parables in need of work

Several of the Parables of Jesus require an expert's attention. The articles consist of the primary source text, no secondary sources and little to no interpretation. In their current state, they violate WP:NPS. I found the Parable of the Two Sons, the Parable of the Leaven, the Parable of the Wise and the Foolish Builders and The Master and Servant especially lacking, but unfortunately I lack the background and inclination to bring them into a proper shape myself. Huon (talk) 15:14, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I just tagged The Birds of Heaven‎, The Test of a Good Person, Parable of the Two Sons‎, Parable of the Leaven, Parable of the Wise and the Foolish Builders and The Master and Servant for only citing the Bible as a source without any secondary sources (and was quite shocked to learn that this is a common enough problem for us to even have a distinct template). If no improvements are made, I will probably send them to AfD for failing WP:NPS and WP:NOT#REPOSITORY. Huon (talk) 22:59, 15 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Church of the Lord Jesus Christ

I recently came across this article, which is in serious need of work. Presently it is a collection of claims that do not seem to carry a neutral point of view, and its references are thin. I've placed your project's tag on its talk page and hopefully you are in a position to begin reviewing it soon. Accurizer (talk) 19:37, 15 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This gets more interesting. There seems to be conflicting information between this article and Church of Our Lord Jesus Christ of the Apostolic Faith. Accurizer (talk) 22:01, 15 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This problem has been addressed at least temporarily by reverting to an early version. Accurizer (talk) 23:04, 16 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia 0.7 articles have been selected for Christianity

Wikipedia 0.7 is a collection of English Wikipedia articles due to be released on DVD, and available for free download, later this year. The Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team has made an automated selection of articles for Version 0.7.

We would like to ask you to review the articles selected from this project. These were chosen from the articles with this project's talk page tag, based on the rated importance and quality. If there are any specific articles that should be removed, please let us know at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.7. You can also nominate additional articles for release, following the procedure at Wikipedia:Release Version Nominations.

A list of selected articles with cleanup tags, sorted by project, is available. The list is automatically updated each hour when it is loaded. Please try to fix any urgent problems in the selected articles. A team of copyeditors has agreed to help with copyediting requests, although you should try to fix simple issues on your own if possible.

We would also appreciate your help in identifying the version of each article that you think we should use, to help avoid vandalism or POV issues. These versions can be recorded at this project's subpage of User:SelectionBot/0.7. We are planning to release the selection for the holiday season, so we ask you to select the revisions before October 20. At that time, we will use an automatic process to identify which version of each article to release, if no version has been manually selected. Thanks! For the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial team, SelectionBot 22:28, 15 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Portal:Christianity calls itself

Portal:Christianity calls itself at the lowest part of the page.

Anyone know how to fix this?--Carlaude ^(talk) 17:23, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed ... someone copied the portal page into this month's scripture passage for some unknown reason. --B (talk) 17:48, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please RSVP to Purity Ball

You are cordially invited to join us at Purity Ball, to assist with its expansion. Please come. Whatever404 (talk) 12:45, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Portal:Christian literature and Portal:Christian Art

I suggest new portal. I think that we have enought matrial for it and it can help to make this articles better. --91.150.78.197 (talk) 14:55, 4 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

How about Portal:Christian Literature and Art instead.

For one thing, comics and manga are a legitimate and increasingly popular art form that is both Literature and Art.

This would also give the poral a wider array of articles to "draw" on. --Carlaude ^(talk) 20:03, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I would be opposed to the Christian art one as the articles are in considerable disarray at the moment, and very badly categorised. I expect the same applies to the Literature. Johnbod (talk) 20:34, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move discsussion involving Kabbalah

Since there is a form of Christian Kabbalah, I suspect some of you may be interested in the discussion at Talk:Kabbalah#Requested move. Bob (QaBob) 14:04, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Featured list removal candidates/List of popes

The featured list List of popes has been nominated for removal. You can comment here. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 17:49, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Christian Zionism in the United Kingdom

Can someone tell me who gave this a B (rather than start) rating as part of your project? Slrubenstein | Talk 15:31, 3 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The talk page reveals that - there is only one editor for the talk page, who gave it all the ratings for all the projects. I don't recognize that editor, and they are not on the list of members. GRBerry 15:46, 3 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have reset all of them to Start/low. The article is a mass of POV/wikification issues, which I have tagged for. Johnbod (talk) 15:53, 3 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I would have thought that there would be some collective discussion before a project assigns a rating. That's why I asked. Slrubenstein | Talk 17:33, 3 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No, assessments are normally added by one user. There would only be discussion if there is disagreement, because assessments aren't that important. I think they are usually added by project members (or bots, but lets not go there...) - at least I don't normally rate for other than this project and its sub-projects, though I may remove a rating that looks no longer valid. Don't treat them as very significant. My personal opinion is that above stub and below FA the ratings are essentially the same. GRBerry 17:49, 3 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! Slrubenstein | Talk 19:06, 3 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Christianity and Judaism

In a recent AfD a (snowball) decision was taken to merge this article into the article Judeo-Christian.

Unfortunately the merge proposal was never flagged at the article Judeo-Christian, nor was the AfD ever flagged at the project talk-pages which tend to be a clearing house for such discussions; which is unfortunate, because as far as I can see, as a result nobody familiar with the Judeo-Christian article appears to have participated at all.

Two points in particular I would like to make,

Per WP:ADJECTIVE and WP:MOSNAME, we use nouns and noun-phrases for article titles, not adjectives. So a general survey on the relationships between Christianity and Judaism (a topic this encyclopedia should certainly cover) should be called Christianity and Judaism, as per the articles Christianity and Islam, Islam and Judaism.
The reason the article Judeo-Christian exists, as its own hatnote declares, is specifically to survey the history and use of that word-phrase -- which has its own controversy, and its own tale to tell. (See here where I've set things out in a bit more detail.) That story is a good fit for its own article, and will get completely lost if the contents of Christianity and Judaism get inappropriately dumped on top of it.

People seem to have particularly objected to is the statement in the lead of the Christianity and Judaism article that:

The article on Judeo-Christian tradition emphasizes continuities and convergences between the two religions, this article emphasizes the widely diverging views held by Christianity and Judaism.

I would agree, if that were true, it would set up a completely deprecated WP:POVFORK. But the truth actually is that the Judeo-Christian article does not review the "continuities and convergences between the two religions". Instead, its hatnote says "For the relationships between the two religions, see Christianity and Judaism." -- which, per WP:ADJECTIVE is exactly where that discussion should be found.

Having contacted the closing admin, his advice was to open a new discussion at Talk:Christianity and Judaism, advertise the discussion widely, and if a new consensus can be reached in that discussion, then per WP:CCC the new consensus should be followed, rather than the AfD decision, without the need for a DRV or a new AfD.

Concerns about the proposed merge have also been expressed by Slrubenstein (talk · contribs), LisaLiel (talk · contribs) and SkyWriter (talk · contribs).

So this post is to let people know that that discussion is underway, at Talk:Christianity and Judaism#Overly speedy deletion. People may also wish to review the problems with the article in its present form, as identified in the AfD. Jheald (talk) 15:21, 4 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Damnation contains little on theology

The article Damnation is very short and focuses largely on slang use of the word.
IMHO this article can and should have much more on theology of the concept of damnation.
(I will not be editing this myself.) -- 201.53.7.16 (talk) 12:48, 9 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Messianic Judaism article GA reassessment

Your thoughts would be appreciated here: Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/Messianic Judaism/1 -- Avi (talk) 22:01, 16 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Carlos Annacondia

Would be nice if somebody could write up about Carlos Annacondia. thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.53.162.56 (talk) 12:17, 21 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

List of Archbishops of Canterbury

I've nominated this article for removal of it's featured list status. Feel free to comment, here. iMatthew (talk) 20:25, 21 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Kosuke Koyama - help needed to make this article better sourced, pleased

Recently, I created the page on the Japanese theologian Kosuke Koyama, as it surprised me that this celebrated theologian did not have an article in Wikipedia. I first learnt of this through reading a Lion Handbook of Christian theologians in 1985, but as it was a long time ago that I read this, I do not recall all the details. Does any one know of the book in question, or indeed, have any other book references for Kosuke Koyama? If you know some good references that would help to improve this article, you can leave a message on my userpage and I shall be grateful - I shall be happy to edit the Koyama article if any one leaves messages on my userpage. Many thanks, ACEOREVIVED (talk) 20:36, 21 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wikiproject Christianity in Asia proposal

Please consider commenting at Wikiproject Christianity in Asia proposal. Thanks. -- Suntag ☼ 20:29, 27 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Input wanted on Francis Macnab

A discussion has started at Talk:Francis Macnab about how to cover his announcement of a new faith, see here. The sections dealing with it are rather long, and further we have had a request from the Executive of his church that we remove some sourced information about the public response of another church. Your input is appreciated. Blarneytherinosaur ^gabby? 23:20, 28 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In the Above To Do list

Warning: There is no such thing as the "Assemblies of Yahweh (Michigan)". There is one Assemblies of Yahweh (Bethel) which has branches over the world. Just like to let you know. Apparently, the Assemblies of Yahweh have had copyright issues already with groups such as the Assembly of Yahweh, or House of Yahweh, calling themselves Assemblies of Yahweh. Kiddish.K (talk) 12:45, 30 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Geevarghese Mar Ivanios

Can someone from this project run their eyes over Geevarghese Mar Ivanios, I've removed a lot of the gushing love letter like tone from the article but a lot of terminology is complete alien to me and it could do with an expert running their eyes over it. --Cameron Scott (talk) 15:38, 30 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Purity Ball

Someone mentioned this article before, but they failed to mention how biased against the event it is. The article includes several quotes criticising the event but not a single positive comment to support it. Wikipedia articles are supposed to have a neutral point of view, this one clearly does not. 75.93.9.235 (talk) 04:07, 1 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 624: / Line 624: @@
 Can someone from this project run their eyes over [[Geevarghese Mar Ivanios]], I've removed a lot of the gushing love letter like tone from the article but a lot of terminology is complete alien to me and it could do with an expert running their eyes over it. --[[User:Cameron Scott|Cameron Scott]] ([[User talk:Cameron Scott|talk]]) 15:38, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
+== Purity Ball==
+Someone mentioned this article before, but they failed to mention how biased against the event  it is. The article includes several quotes criticising the event but not a single positive comment to support it. Wikipedia articles are supposed to have a neutral point of view, this one clearly does not. [[Special:Contributions/75.93.9.235|75.93.9.235]] ([[User talk:75.93.9.235|talk]]) 04:07, 1 November 2008 (UTC)