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March 28

who is Lion P.S. Rees?

A quote attributed to this curiously named individual has proliferated all over the internet, “Gratitude: that quality which the Canine Mongrel seldom lacks; which the Human Mongrel seldom possesses!” - but who is Lion Rees? Googling his name only returns the quote - I tried googling Lionel Rees, with no joy. Can anyone find him/her?

Ta Adambrowne666 (talk) 00:53, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Huh, can't find anything either here. Perhaps just some person who was credited with a quote that spread? Calabe1992 01:06, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

It was used by Richard Jesse in his book Knight. You could ask him if he knows any more about the quote. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 01:48, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

I thought it was an odd enough name to be an acronym, so I fed it into a couple of web based acronym generators, and found nothing sensible, so that guess was wrong. HiLo48 (talk) 07:09, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Do you perhaps mean an anagram? --ColinFine (talk) 14:44, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

If you assume that "Lion" is a mistake, or a title (was he a member of the Lions Club?), googling "P. S. Rees" gives a lot of references to Paul Stromberg Rees, such as this - a Christian writer of the mid-20th century. A possibility, perhaps? Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:21, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Another remote possibility is from this New Scientist article referring to 'P.S. Rees [...] of the Sokoto State College of Education'. A little searching leads me to believe this is the same person as P.A. Rees, now of Salford University. He at least is involved in the study of animals, although his speciality seems to be elephants rather than dogs. My suspicion is that someone in the dark history of the internet copied-and-pasted something incorrectly, and that has spread. Even the rather odd positioning of the dash ("-Lion PS Rees) seems to appear in more than 50% of the citations. But I still would have expected someone somewhere to have recorded the correct author of the quotation. Seems not, though. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 16:39, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I suspect you're right, Cucumber Mike; thanks, all, for the ingenious suggestions. I was asking on behalf of a friend who wanted to know for copyright purposes; I think that Lion Rees is untraceable will itself be useful info to her. Adambrowne666 (talk) 03:06, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Carded - drinking age enforcement in the USA

Some years ago, on a business trip to the USA, I was asked to provide id so I could get a drink with my food in a bar. Since I was more then twice the legal drinking age and showing some grey in my hair, I questioned whether that was really necessary. The barman said yes and refused to accept my UK drivers license as id (because it didn't have a photo). My passport was safely locked away in the hotel safe and I asked again if this was really, really necessary. The barman suggested I could be a law enforcment official trying to catch him out. I eventually did get my beer but it got me thinking, to what extent does law enforcment in the US try to catch out barstaff selling to underage drinkers? Would they really go as far as finding an officer who can do a british accent and provide him with a photo-less foreign driving license? Astronaut (talk) 13:33, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

The reasonableness of your scenario is not a deciding factor in the decision making of the bartender. As a matter of risk/reward: You represent one customer, who may buy a meal or a drink or two. Violations of the local drinking age statutes can cause an establishment to lose their liquor liscence, which effectively makes them lose all of their customers. You represent a small reward, the risk of losing ones entire business over the matter may look irrational to the customer, but from the big picture, the buisness owner (who has probably instructed his employees in this matter) stands to lose very little from pissing you off by not serving you, but stands to lose a lot by violating liquor laws. Furthermore, at the individual employee level, you don't want individual employees making judgements. Ideally, the employee would make no independent decisions at all, and would always apply the strict letter of the law (card everyone, no matter what) because that minimizes risk: as soon as the employee starts to think for themselves, they increase the opportunity to make a disasterously wrong judgement. This has nothing to do with you, you're unique characteristics, such as your actual age and appearence, has nothing to do with it. You want to drink, you need a valid photo ID. There is no room for individual assessements and variations to the procedure. You can think this is stupid and not patronize business that behave in this manner, that is your prerogative. The business can also choose to behave this way, that is their prerogative. --Jayron32 14:46, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

By the way, I am an American whom nobody would guess is under 30 (much less under 21), and I am usually asked for identification when buying alcohol. It is a standard procedure to safeguard the business. Incidentally, my brother-in-law is a policeman, and places selling liquor are frequent targets of police investigation for possible underage sales. It is an easy way for the police to justify their existence. Mothers Against Drunk Driving has created a strong constituency for enforcement of these laws, and many nearby residents dislike establishments that sell liquor because of the noise and traffic that they generate, so police may be looking for excuses to shut them down. Marco polo (talk) 15:18, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

I hate to be that guy, but enforcement varies wildly across the country. Not just from state to state but also from municipality to municipality. Granted, if you were on a business trip, you were probably in a larger city where they might be more stringent (of course, it could've just been the bar you went to). Hot Stop^UTC 15:28, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

That's interesting, but this one incident is the only time, in 20 years of visiting the USA, that I've been asked to provide id to get a beer. Obviously, many establishments are quite willing to make a judgement (based on appearence). I just felt in this case that that particular barman's assertion that I could be trying to catch him out, was particularly ludicrous and wondered if anyone had any facts to back up such a devious scheme. Astronaut (talk) 15:32, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Just to clarify, Astronaut, my assessment wasn't meant to be judgementative nor normative, merely esplanatory. That is, I was not saying that the bartender in question should have carded you, nor was I saying that other bartenders in other establishments should behave like that, nor should their motivations be as I describe. There are various ways to run one's business, and they all have their justifications. That the bartender carded an obviously of-age patron has a rationale which has its own logic, as would an establishment where the bartender did not card you and made his own judgement that you were obviously of age. The fact that different establishments and individuals have different approaches doesn't make either one wrong, and both practices can be explained in ways that don't pass quality judgements saying one method is objectively better. In summation, I was merely providing a possible justification for why this one bar insisted on carding you, not passing judgement on this, or any, particular practice. It seems quite unusual that you were treated differently in different experiences, and neither experience is wrong. --Jayron32 16:29, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

I don't have a source handy, but I've heard stories about police using "older looking" teenagers in stings. Hot Stop^UTC 15:38, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

A trivial Google search for alcohol to minors sting or similar keywords turns up a plethora of sources and news reports: [1], [2], [3], [4].... TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:29, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

My response was accidentally deleted by the next poster. I basically echo what Jayron said. I will point out that it isn't unique to the U.S.: There was recently a story in the UK about a 92-year-old woman who was refused alcohol because she didn't have an ID [5]. Again, the risks of serving alcohol to those underage are large, and business owners typically try to be quite careful about it. Buddy431 (talk) 16:17, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Or, to put it another way, they don't trust their employees to exercise anything like common sense or reasonable judgment. --Mr.98 (talk) 11:50, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

I don't think you read the linked article. The shop in question had previously had its license to sell alcohol revoked; the town council reinstated the license on the condition that the store adhere to a strict "no ID, no sale" policy. Had they had sold the booze to the 92-year-old, their license to sell alcohol would have been at risk not because they might have mistakenly sold alcohol to an underage individual, but because they would have been violating a condition of their license. (It's quite possible that there's some local politics going on there that we don't know about—anything from an irate neighbor looking to shut them down, to a grandstanding town councillor with too much time on his hands.) While the outcome – a 92-year-old getting carded – is silly, it's dangerous to jump to the conclusion that all responsibility for that silliness lies with the store's owner. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 13:06, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

I am happy to acknowledge the silliness can trickle down from higher places as well. --Mr.98 (talk) 18:07, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Australian alcohol outlets often have signs to the effect of "If you look young, we WILL ask for proof of age. Please don't be offended." But, a story. Some years ago someone I know well went to the USA to work in a ski resort. Her birthday is December 11. She arrived in mid-November, around four weeks before her 21st birthday. Her passport, following the convention used in most of the world outside the USA, showed her date of birth as 11-12-19xx. She used this as ID from the day she arrived when needing proof of age to purchase alcohol (An activity not uncommon in ski resorts.) Her new American friends with whom she had been drinking were stunned when she announced in early December that she was planning a small 21st birthday celebration for December 11. HiLo48 (talk) 18:44, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

My passport spells out the month. I am fairly startled that this would not be the universal practice. --Trovatore (talk) 19:45, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

I think HiLo is saying any American who saw "11-12-19xx" would assume their birthday was 12 November rather than 11 December. We all refer to "9/11", but if it had happened almost anywhere outside the USA, we'd probably be calling it "11/9". -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 22:16, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

I don't know if Trovatore is questioning that. Personally while I agree almost anywhere outside the US XX-XX-XXXX would be interpreted DD-MM-YYYY, I'm not so sure about the 9/11 part as some places do use YYYY-MM-DD. But anyway to the main point, I also do find it a bit odd the passport has the birthday in that format as dates in that format have the potential of confusion which is not desirable with passports. I checked both old and new New Zealand and Malaysia passports (all the way back to Federation of Malaya) and all I see spell out the month for the date of birth (and other dates) to some extent (generally 3 letters). Ditto for a New Zealand returning resident's visa. Seems to be the same for the dates on all immigration stamps. Some of those which are written instead of using stamps don't spell it out and instead just use DD-MM-YYYY, including cancellation dates (but not those odd occasions where DOB was written). Theoretically this could be problematic for those who don't use English but I would guess that's unlikely. Other documents like drivers licenses or citizen IDs don't spell it out but they're primarily intended for local use. Another alternative is in the ISO date format YYYY-MM-DD which has the advantage no one uses YYYY-DD-MM. Nil Einne (talk) 07:21, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

I may be wrong about the passport being the identification document in question. It may have been some other document. But I've heard versions of the story from more than one Australian who was there. And the "trick" with the dates worked for a few weeks. Then it didn't matter. HiLo48 (talk) 07:27, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Anyway, it's a damn shame she turned out not to have her birthday on 12 November, because some truly memorable, fantastic, wonderful, marvellous, charismatic, awe-inspiring, brilliant, outstanding, superb and generally excellent people were born on that day. One in particular, but modesty prevents me from mentioning his name.  :) -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 09:57, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

You are undoubtedly speaking of your twin brother, Paddy O'Oz. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:28, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

This might've happened to me in reverse! I went to buy a ticket at a Spanish train station and was asked for ID. I only had a U.S. state ID which was expired, but perhaps the person interpreted the MM-DD-YY expiration date as DD-MM-YY (e.g. January 12 read as December 1) and thought it was still valid... or else just didn't bother to check the expiration date, which I admit often happens anyway (I still haven't gotten around to renewing the ID). TresÁrboles (talk) 02:37, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

The truth is it varies a lot. It depends on the State, the town, even the establishment. I've been carded even in Europe so it's not just an American phenomenon. If I had to just guess, if you look over 30 you probably will get carded maybe 25% of the time. If you look over 40 probably almost never. The exception is some bars and clubs where they just card everybody who goes through the door; even George Burns would get carded there. Obviously local enforcement is going to determine this mostly, but in my experience the more experienced a waiter is the better they are about determining age and thus whether or not to card someone. Shadowjams (talk) 22:42, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Proof of identity in around the world

In a question above, I made the bold claim that "most Western democracies where you never have to prove who you are, regardless of your citizenship status". After a little digging it seems I was very much wrong about that. Here are a few arbitrary categories to help the classification process:

1) No requirement for all denizens (police can still temporarily detain you on reasonable suspicion until positive identification is established)

2) Foreign tourists require ID at all times

3) Non-citizens require ID at all times

3a) Non-citizen residents require ID at all time

4) All denizens require ID at all times

(I've omitted the category where non-citizen residents require IDs but tourists don't because I'm guessing it's a null set.)

Here's what I found so far with data easily available:

1) Brazil [6], Canada [7], HongKong[8], Kenya[9], Pakistan[10], Russia[11], Italy[12], Sweden[13], Ireland[14], Denmark[15], Germany[16], Greece[17],Hungary[18]

2)

3) Japan[19], RoC[20]

3a) United States[21]

4) Singapore[22], Zimbabwe[23], PRC[24], Israel[25], Sri Lanka[26], Belgium[27], Botswana[28], Cyprus[29], Luxembourg[30], Panama[31], Spain[32], Bulgaria[33],Iceland[34], Gibraltar[35], Netherlands[36], Slovenia[37], Serbia[38], Costa Rica[39], Chile[40]

Notably the second category is empty because I'm not familiar with the laws of most countries and there isn't a lot of easily accessible information in English out there regarding this fringe topic. I suspect many of the countries listed in the first category should in fact belong in the second one. Can you guys spot any such cases? Also feel free to add more countries to the list.

Anonymous.translator (talk) 20:26, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

In Sweden the police can't detain you only because they want to establish your identity, as far as I know, unless you have been stopped for a traffic violation or is a suspect of a crime, but maybe that's what you mean by reasonable suspicion. I haven't found anything that says that foreigners have to carry passports or IDs at all times.Sjö (talk) 21:50, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

I made a reply above pointing out your earlier comment was flawed before noticing this. It may be useful here as some of your categories seem limited. As I mentioned there, from what I can tell and also based on our article, in some countries including some of the ones you included in 1, you may be required to prove your identification to the police or similar authorities at any time (i.e. they don't need a specific reason) even though you're not required to carry an ID on you. If you don't have one on you, they may either detain you or give you time to present one. As I understand it, this different is from the point you were trying to make and the US, where the police can only require you to prove your ID in certain circumstances like if they believe you've commited a crime or you're driving. You may or may not want to also make a distinction between the cases when the ID you have to show if you're a citizen is a compulsory national ID, or you just need to prove it to the satisfaction of the police in some way.

In other countries, there is some form of compulsory national ID which all citizens have to get at a certain age although it's possible you're not required to show it to the police without good reason. You may also want to consider cases like France where while the police need a reason, it appears to be intepreted broadly enough that from a personal POV you might as well consider it that you can be required to prove your identification at any time.

There are obviously often nuances that depend on public policy and how the law is enforced which may vary from government to government or from area to area. Just because police or other authorities can require you to identify yourself doesn't necessarily mean they always do so, they could even do so less then say the US. Or similarly in a country where you're required to carry ID it may be so rare that they ask and rare they they penalise you if you don't, that fewer people bother then in an other country where you're not required but it happens so often that people do so just to avoid the inconvenience. And of course in some countries the police may not always follow the law and the ability for most citizens do to something when they break it is limited. To use a specific example, in Malaysia there was a lot of debate over carrying the MyKad due to the problems if it is stolen. I believe at one stage it was stated by the government that carrying a copy of your MyKad is sufficient for initial identification by the police but if it's only a copy you may be required to present the real thing to a police station within 24 hours. However while some police officers may still accept that, legally you are still required to carry the original thing meaning you may be penalised if you don't [41]. (Since corruption is so rife, it's possible if they find you without your MyKad even if they don't believe you've done anything wrong or are anything other then a citizen, they may threaten to arrest or fine you to fish for a bribe, it happens with traffic offences.)

Nil Einne (talk) 23:12, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

You've misunderstood the US law. 8 USC 1304 obligates permanent residents to carry their Permanent Resident Card (which was formerly called an Alien Registration Card). Non-immigrant aliens (e.g. tourists, business travellers, guest workers, and students) don't receive such cards, and so obviously can't be compelled to carry them; I don't know of any Federal law that obligates such people to carry the immigration documents they do get. States may try to impose additional restrictions; e.g. Arizona SB 1070 (which is currently in abeyance) would put that state into your 3) category. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 12:59, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing out my mistake. I just read the first part of the sentence: "Every alien, eighteen years of age and over, shall at all times carry with him..." and assumed "every alien" included the tourists as well. Seems like the "non-citizen residents require IDs but tourists do" category wasn't a null set after all. Now I'm wondering whether there is a new category where all residents (both citizen and non-citizen) require ID but tourists don't. Maybe some oppressive regime that relies heavily on tourism income? Anonymous.translator (talk) 17:19, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm sceptical as to the utility of categories for complex subject like laws. I'm confident you'll never find another country with a restriction just like this (it's rather bonkers). But instead you'll find plenty of other countries that almost fit into your scheme, but have their own rather bonkers variations. It's hard enough to capture all this weirdness in tables (where you can have asterisks and footnotes and daggers and colour coding) but raw categories are fraught. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 23:01, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

I believe (though no one should rely on this) that the requirement in the US for resident aliens to carry their green cards is a technicality and is not really observed. In fact, I think most of them do not carry it, because it's too easy to lose and too much trouble if you do. --Trovatore (talk) 19:50, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

I agree, but we can only document and classify what's on the books. In actuality most of the countries in category 4 are de facto category 1s.Anonymous.translator (talk) 21:04, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

According to an article in the Chronicle of Higher Education about a year ago (Far From Border, U.S. Detains Foreign Students, non-immigrant aliens (i.e., those in the US on temporary visas) are also supposed to carry a passport or some other evidence of one's immigration status, at least when in border areas (as in, within 100 miles or so from any border). They don't cite chapter and verse of the CFR, but do mention occasions when people were fined or temporarily detained. See also United States Border Patrol Interior Checkpoints. -- Vmenkov (talk) 06:47, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

March 30

Questions to ask buying a nice bike

Hi all,

After many years just riding mountain bikes on road, I reckon it's time I finally got a proper on-road bike. Since these usually start at several hundred pounds +, and I'd not like to go completely cheap, this is a fairly major cash commitment. I'm also quite shy. Before I walk into the specialist bike store (rather than Halfords!), are there any particular questions that I ought to know to ask/know to avoid? I know my height, budget, and intended use, is there anything else that would either help me get good service (ie not get ripped off as obviously not knowing what I'm talking about), or just avoid getting laughed at? Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.33.230.34 (talk) 13:40, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

I recommend visiting more than one bike store. Ask similar questions in each and see what kind of response you get. That will teach you more about the bikes you're interested in and give you a sense of which bike shops have knowledgeable staff who offer good information and which shops target the uninitiated and steer them toward expensive features that they don't need. Also, you might start by reading a few bicycling magazines or websites to get a sense for the issues. Here are some tips: A good bike shop will not suggest an expensive (and somewhat fragile) racing bike for an urban commuter (nor will they suggest a mountain bike). Unless you tend to ride for speed on well-maintained and open roads in the countryside, you will probably want some kind of hybrid bike: i.e., one that combines the lightness and efficiency of a racing bike with the ruggedness of a mountain bike. Good questions to ask are "Why does this bike cost more than that bike?" "What are the advantages of this model over that model?" and so on. Marco polo (talk) 15:36, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

In my experience dedicated bike shops (you're right to avoid Halfords) are among the friendliest and most helpful stores there are. They rely heavily on word of mouth among the cycling community so you're unlikely to get ripped off. You might want to look for a web forum of local cyclists who will be able to suggest where to look, and give some thought to what style of handlebars and saddle you want as these have a big impact on comfort. In my opinion you're unlikely ever to need more than ten gears unless you're thinking of going up mountains.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 15:48, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

1) I'd say never make a purchase on your first visit. Instead, write down the model numbers and prices of bikes they have for sale, along with any included accessories. Then take this info home, and look up all those items on the Internet, both for prices and reviews. Beware any shop that starts slashing prices but only if you buy right then. This probably means the prices were absurdly high to begin with and are still higher than you could get elsewhere after the supposed "slashing". However, note that you should expect prices to be higher in a bike shop, especially one which assembles the bike for you and/or offers any type of maintenance or other services, versus buying one over the Internet in a box and assembling it yourself. So, maybe 50% more might make sense, but not 10X more.

2) I agree with the advice to avoid anything fancy, like a graphite-composite frame. That just makes the bike incredibly expensive and fragile.

3) Once you decide on the model you want, go to several bike shops and tell them you intend to buy that model, but found it cheaper at shop X. Many will then lower their prices. This approach works better on a popular model many stores carry. You could also tell them you found it cheaper on the Internet, although they probably won't match that price, since that's really an "apples and oranges" comparison.

4) Also beware of bikes that use "proprietary standards". I know Schwinn used to do this, meaning you had to buy all replacement parts from them at absurd prices. I'm not sure which ones still do this.

5) Have you decided what you need on the bike, like number of speeds, whether you need a full suspension, lights and reflectors for night use, speedometer/odometer, and type of seat ? They might treat you better if you come in knowing what you want, and might try to rip you off if you don't. StuRat (talk) 16:48, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

My advice to visit more than one bike store (unless you have one already that you know and trust) was based on my experience in the Boston, USA, area, where some stores take advantage of the somewhat large population of transient students with wealthy parents (or young doctors and lawyers with more money than common sense) to push overly expensive models. In my area, there is also a type of bike store staffed with bicycle snobs who can't be bothered to help you if you are not already a connoisseur. These people may respond condescendingly to your questions and make it clear that they just wish you would leave the store, with or without a bike. If every bike store in your area happens to be friendly, helpful, and not out to gouge, then it might be fine to deal with whichever happens to be closest to you. Otherwise, shop around. Marco polo (talk) 18:01, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

I agree with StuRat that it helps to think about what sort of bike you want before coming into the shop.Probably the two biggest decisions are true road bike or hybrid, and if a true road bike whether you want flat or drop handlebars. Both of these decisions steer you to completely different models of bike. Number of speeds is also important. Things like lights, saddle, pedals and bike computers are useful to think about but less critical as they can all be changed/fitted on any particular model. Also if you are shy it's an easier way to start a conversation to say e.g. "I'm looking for a flat handlebar road bike in this price range for this indended use, what do you recommend?" Rather than say "I'm looking for a bike" and then get asked lots of questions you haven't researched. Knowing what you want also makes people less likely to rip you off for fear that you might catch them out! Equisetum (talk | contributions) 10:09, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Lottery winners

With the Mega Millions having a ridiculously high jackpot at the moment everyone seems to be interested in the lottery. What do people who win the lottery (for simplicity we'll say winners of at least several million dollars) normally do from the time they found out they've won to a couple weeks after they've claimed the jackpot, given that they have a fair amount of time between when they win and when they have to claim the prize? What normally happens to them in the long term after they've claimed the prize? Ks0stm ^{(T•C•G•E)} 17:12, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

There are some like Jack Whittaker (lottery winner) who run into a lot of trouble once they win. Dismas|^(talk) 17:15, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

There are two ways that much money can cause problems. One is just having it, in that some people will drink, do drugs, and gamble until they die as a result. The other problem is letting the public and your relatives know you have that much money, which makes you the target of crime. Some lotteries allow the winner to remain anonymous, but I doubt if a prize of that magnitude can possibly be hidden. StuRat (talk) 17:31, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Sometimes nothing. I recall reading about one silly woman who waited something like six months before claiming the money, so she could surprise her husband on his birthday. I did a rough calculation (this was back when interest rates were a lot higher) and figured she could have bought a house with the interest she didn't collect. Clarityfiend (talk) 20:27, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Odds ?

With a $462 million dollar jackpot, has this reached the point where it's actually worth buying a ticket, or will you still lose money, on average ? StuRat (talk) 17:34, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

How would you lose money? Granted, you have to pay taxes on it but they can't be greater than the sum of the winnings. Dismas|^(talk) 17:40, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

You lose money by paying for a lottery ticket and not winning, of course. StuRat (talk) 18:02, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

The formula should, I believe, be:

       (Prize value after taxes) x (Chance of winning)   
------------------------------------------------------------   -   Price of Ticket 
(Average number of winners when there's at least one winner) 

If positive, then you would make money, on average, by buying a ticket. So, can anyone help me fill in the variables ? The denominator seems the trickiest, since that must depend on the number of people who enter but also how random the numbers are which they select (if everyone picks the same numbers, this would be far higher than if everyone picks a unique number). The "Prize value after taxes" should either be interpreted as "Lump sum prize money after taxes" or "Installment prize value after taxes and inflation".StuRat (talk) 18:07, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

The article on Mega Millions lists the odds. Taxes will depend on where you live. US Federal taxes are 35% I think. State taxes widely vary. California doesn't tax winnings, other states do. Current jackpot is listed as $640 million annuity or $462 million lump sum. RudolfRed (talk) 18:16, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Other complexities are the chances of winning a lesser prize, and the use of the "Megaplier" option. StuRat (talk) 18:18, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

OK, let me try running some numbers. Ignoring the lesser prizes, taking a WAG at 50% net tax rate, using the lump sum figure, and guessing at 3 winners, on average, when there is a winner, at this level, I get:

(50% after taxes x $462 million lump sum) x 1 in 175,711,536
------------------------------------------------------------   -   $1   =   -$0.56
                    3 winners, on average

If we add in the Megaplier, which gives an average multiplication of 3.476 and makes the ticket cost $2, we get:

3.476 x (50% after taxes x $462 million lump sum) x 1 in 175,711,536
--------------------------------------------------------------------   -   $2   =   -$0.48
                     3 winners, on average

So, with those figures, it looks like it's not high enough to be worthwhile, yet. Did I do the calcs right ? It looks like you could just about break even in California, due to the lack of state taxes, if you used the "Megaplier", but, unfortunately, they don't have it in that state. The number you pick presumably also matters, with a truly random number winner being less likely to share his winnings than somebody who plays today's date. StuRat (talk) 18:30, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

The Megaplier does not apply to the jackpot. RudolfRed (talk) 18:50, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Really ? That makes it a colossal rip-off then, if you have to pay twice as much and yet only increase the payout on the insignificant secondary prizes. StuRat (talk) 19:11, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

The number of people you might have to share your prize with depends the choice of numbers. With over 175 million possible winning combinations, there are some very popular combinations, while there are many, many combinations that are not played at all. If you are one of the idiots who play multiples of 7 (ie. 7, 14, 21, 28, 35, 42) because 7 is a "lucky" number, then you might have to share your prize with an awful lot more people that you might have otherwise expected. When I used to work in the lottery business, several thousand people played that exact combination every week. The same goes with 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 - another combination that is inexplicably popular. As far as I'm aware, all the sevens has never come up as a winning combination and the only time 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ever won was when we were running the test system :-).

The best advice I had was to play a random-pick. Not letting your feelings for a certain numbers interfere with your number selection has a couple of advantages: while it is not garanteed to pick a combination that has not been played so far, the random pick is random enough that you are more likely to not to have to share your prize; and it also means you don't get attached to a particular set of numbers week after week (nothing's worse than thinking you have won, only to find you forgot to enter that week). Astronaut (talk) 18:57, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

We just had a local news show present an "expert" who advised that you should never use the quick-pick (random). I agree with you, though. The so-called expert did not present his reasoning. I suspect it's based on interviews with winners, who, even though they really did the quick-pick, lied and came up with explanations for how God told them the numbers to play, or some such thing. StuRat (talk) 19:15, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Astronaut, any mathematician will confirm that 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 is just as likely to come up as any other combination of 6 valid numbers you could possibly name. A random draw is not concerned with aesthetics or with any apparent relationship between the numbers, but every once in a while an apparently related series of numbers will be drawn. But that's only because humans like to find patterns in nature, even in random accidents where no pattern was, or could possibly have been, intended. To exclude the possibility of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, or all the sevens, or any other ordered series of numbers, ever being drawn is to actually slightly reduce your chance of winning, not increase it. But I know where you're coming from - wild horses could never force me to pick 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 either. I tell myself it's just so unlikely, and I conveniently overlook that every other combination, without exception, is just as unlikely. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 20:58, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes and no, Jack. If one asks, "is 1,2,3,4,5,6 any more unlikely that any other set of numbers," the answer is clearly "no." But if one asks, "is a string of numbers in perfect order more unlikely than a set of numbers more unusually distributed," the answer is "yes." The human intuition is really telling you about the latter probability, not the former. My point is not that excluding those numbers will help you win, but that human intuition in this case is not entirely wrong, so long as you understand what it is really being intuited... --Mr.98 (talk) 21:41, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Intuition will sometimes lead you to conclusions that are just plain wrong. You can look at all the previous results and come to the view that the selected numbers have always been disordered, and are always going to be, because that's the nature of random numbers; and therefore it would be an utter waste of money (or as near as damn it) to choose 1,2,3,4,5,6 or any other string of numbers in perfect order. I say it's an utter waste of money (or as near as damn it) to choose 1,3,9,23,31,38, or 7,11,15,21,22,33, or ......., because they are all exactly as unlikely as 1,2,3,4,5,6. The truth is that any single ticket has an infinitesimally small chance of winning, no matter what numbers are chosen. The "as near as damn it" is the area we're working in here. And when that intersects with human nature, interesting things happen. When the string is 1,2,3,4,5,6, most people prefer to believe that "as near as damn it" exactly equals zero. But when it's some randomly disordered series, most people hope like hell that "as near as damn it" is non-zero. They can't have it both ways. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 22:36, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Jack, Astronaut's point wasn't that 1-2-3-4-5-6 is any less likely to win, it's that if it does win, you will have to split your winnings with the thousands of other idiots who also bet that. Therefore, betting a random sequence is far better, as nobody else is likely to have bet on it, so, if it does win (which is just as likely) you get to keep it all (assuming you use your shotgun to keep the taxman at bay). StuRat (talk) 01:18, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

That was half of his point. The other part was "as far as I'm aware, all the sevens has never come up as a winning combination and the only time 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ever won was when we were running the test system" - that is, it's very unlikely to come up at all, whether you have to share your winnings with others or not, so it's unwise to bet on it just from the unlikeliness perspective. But I'm saying it's no more unlikely than any random combination, and I think you and Mr.98 have agreed with me on that. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 01:30, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

I don't think his point was that this combo is any less likely, just that it isn't any more likely. That is, that it never have come up isn't very notable, unless one expects it to come up often. But, since it has never come up, just like most other combos, this shows it isn't really "lucky". StuRat (talk) 02:19, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Right. OK. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 06:24, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

"Old Fooians"

I keep seeing discussions about categories pertaining to "Old Fooians". What in the world is an "Old Fooian"? Allen (talk) 17:36, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

See Foobar. "Foo" is often used as a placeholder for another word which might be anything. Another example is widget. So if you were talking about people from various countries and didn't want to have to name each and every one of them (i.e. Old German, Old Norwegian, Old Mexican, etc.) you could just put "foo" in their place. Without having a specific example from you, it's a bit hard to tell if this answers your question or not. Dismas|^(talk) 17:43, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Fooian is not a collective term I recognised or have ever come across. Do mean the plural of “ An Old Fool”?--Aspro (talk) 17:47, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

No. Please look at the answer by User:Dismas above. JIP | Talk 17:58, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm not denying it – in fact it makes sense. Its just that I have never come across it and the OP say's s/he keeps coming across it. Obviously, I should bolt the door, draw the curtains and spend more time in cyberspace.--Aspro (talk) 18:05, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

This is yet another instance of the OP not including an example of what they are referring to. I just happened to (maybe) know what they were referring to and responded. When the question was asked, I did a quick web search for "Old Fooian" (with quotes) and the first page, at least, of results were to Wikipedia. <rant>It really helps when the OPs provide examples of what they're referring to. It's akin to asking a regular editor "Why did you make that edit?" What edit? Where? If they can provide examples of what they're referring to, it really helps the responders answer the question more precisely. </rant> Dismas|^(talk) 20:06, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

To answer the question, this refers to past pupils at a school such as Old Etonians, but with the the 'Foo' being a placeholder as described above. The debate has been about the naming of pages that list such people I believe - see [42]. Mikenorton (talk) 20:20, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

It isnt a real word it is just easier to say Old Fooians rather than Old xxxians it is just easier on wikipedia to insert Foo instead of xxx. You can find it in other discussions where Foo is used as an example like Category:Cycle manufacturers of Foo rather than list all the countries. MilborneOne (talk) 20:30, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

I thought I said that. Dismas|^(talk) 23:33, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

See also Wikipedia:Category names#Occupation and the nicely named {{Fooian fooers}}. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:18, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

To elaborate a little further on what Mikenorton said above, an Old Fooian would be a former student of Foo School, in the same way that an Old Etonian went to Eton and an Old Harrovian went to Harrow. In the UK, these descriptions are normally only applied to the older and more famous public schools - it would be unusual for someone to refer to themselves as an 'Old Walford-Highschool-ian' - and can sometimes be used to denote some of the 'benefits' that ex-students of these places are perceived to get - for instance 'How did Foofoo Barrington get that cushy job with the civil service?' 'Oh, he's an Old Etonian'.

The collective term for ex-students is Old Boys, and that article contains a long list of specific names for past students of various schools. See also Old boy network and School tie for information about the benefits of being an Old Boy. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 06:29, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

In the early 20th century, English Grammar schools tried to model themselve on the much more prestigious public schools. Most Grammar schools had old boys' associations, many of which survive as sports (esp Rugby Union) clubs, so we have Old Beccehamians, Old Elthamians, Old Surbitonians, Old Leamingtonians etc etc... BTW Cucumber Mike, my old school had an Old Leytonians club, long since deceased (Leyton is directly between Walthamstow and Stratford, whose names were combined to make the fictional Walford). But as you say, it wouldn't be something you'd boast about at a dinner party, although Derek Jacobi and Jonathan Ross are "Old Leytonians". Alansplodge (talk) 16:37, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Do you think the ex-students of the original Walford High School (which have also have to suffer the indignity of being pupils at an establishment that has repeatedly been acknowledged as the worst school -ever) will appreciate your current claim that they are also now to be considered, no more than the result of a concatenated abbreviation in someone’s imagination?--Aspro (talk) 14:08, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Well, not really my claim. If you follow Cucumber Mike's link, as I did, you'll see that the claim is referenced to Smith, Rupert (2005). EastEnders: 20 Years in Albert Square. BBC Books, BBC Worldwide Ltd. ISBN 978-0-563-52165-5. I didn't see the Walford (disambiguation) page. We already have Walford Anglican School for Girls which is in Australia. Alansplodge (talk) 22:34, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

I've added a redlink to Walford High School on the disambiguation page. THe school has been replaced by the West London Academy which occupies the same site. Both schools had WP articles but both have been deleted. Alansplodge (talk) 23:03, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, I should have thought of adding them to the disambiguation page. Glade that some editors are still awake.--Aspro (talk) 21:34, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

The term "Foo" is not widely used in British English, something I didn't notice in our article Foobar (redirect from Foo). It's also not properly explained in Placeholder name. --Dweller (talk) 10:44, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Yes, rare in British English. The only place I've ever met the expression is on Wikipedia, where it seems to be in common usage. Dbfirs 11:11, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

I've seen it in comic strips from generations back. I suspect it's a variant on "faux", or possibly connected with "phony" or the old expression "Phooey!" all of which mean a humbug. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:21, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Brits take their pick of (off the top of my head) "X", "whatever", "any old", "such and such" or for people, "so and so" or "Joe Bloggs". I've only heard British people say "phooey" when there's a particularly bad smell. --Dweller (talk) 12:34, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

It's used more broadly in America. Here's what EO has to say about it (as well as "phoo"):[43] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:51, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

March 31

Romper Room

I see in the article about Romper Room that Miss Nancy was the the lady in the San Francisco part. It stays 1953 to 1969. Romper Room lasted longer than that. I was on the show in 1970 and my brother in 1971. Both were filmed at KTVU studios in Oakland, Jack London Square CA. The Hostess was Miss Mary Ann. Why does the article not mention Miss Mary Ann? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.2.49.99 (talk) 06:40, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Miss Mary Ann Pedersen is mentioned in Romper Room#New York City as working in the "early 1970s". She also has her own Facebook page. The San Francisco section states that Miss Nancy worked up to 1969, but that doesn't necessarily mean the show stopped when she did. Clarityfiend (talk) 07:15, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

I actually appeared on the New York Romper Room with Miss Louise. I have a picture somewhere, which I will never upload.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:05, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Cash Transactions vs Credit/Debit Card transactions in the United States

Are there any comparisons on the number of cash transactions the average American has in a year vs the number of Credit/Debit transactions? --188.220.46.47 (talk) 18:35, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

This [44] and this (pdf) [45] give some numbers for credit and debit card use. I don't know if there is anything similar for cash transactions. The second doc I linked is from the Federal Reserve, so you might search there for more data. RudolfRed (talk) 20:27, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Real-time stock market data feeds

What companies provide real-time stock market data feeds in machine readable formats? In other words, if I wanted to use my own software and tools for analyzing stock market data, what services could I subscribe to in order to get the data. It would need to follow 100+ marketable equities in near real-time. Preliminary research suggests that such services cost tend to cost $100-1000 / month, but I want to make sure I don't overlook various options. Dragons flight (talk) 23:31, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Which ones have you identified so far? That will help us suggest the any you might be overlooking. RudolfRed (talk) 23:40, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

IQFeed is an example of what I am talking about [46]. Dragons flight (talk) 01:04, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

I believe such data is often provided by your broker. --Tango (talk) 00:17, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Brokerage houses often provide data that is tied into their specific platform and not easily migrated in real-time to other software tools. Dragons flight (talk) 01:04, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

eSignal? [47] RudolfRed (talk) 01:17, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Certainly, companies can subscribe to data feeds from organizations like Thomson Reuters, Bloomberg L.P., SIX Telekurs and their many competitors. They claim to add value to the data they provide. I don't know whether or not individuals can subscribe, but I do know such feeds can be expensive (though it can be cheaper for time delayed data). However, the data is one step removed from the true source, the stock exchanges themseleves. Maybe you can interact directly with the stock market using something like the NYSE Hybrid market, but I suspect you might have to become a Registered representative (as defined by FINRA) to gain such access. Astronaut (talk) 13:26, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

April 1

using a coin for a logo

Hello, I was wondering could I use a picture of a halfpenny coin for a logo our name is halfpenny and it would be neat to put that on our busniess cards! Would I need to ask permission---- — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mhalfpenny (talk • contribs) 03:31, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Even though I'm Australian, and we once had halfpennies too, I'm guessing that the question is coming from the UK, in which case I would suggest that it would best be redirected to the Royal Mint. If anyone owns the copyright it would be them. HiLo48 (talk) 03:55, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Unless they are referring to the Half cent (United States coin). The U.S. cent coin is colloquially known as the "penny". --Jayron32 04:35, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Yep, but was the Half cent known as a "halfpenny"? -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 05:19, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

It might be worth noting that this very organisation uses images of many coins on the relevant pages. Knowing how sharp WP is about copyright I can't imagine these are being used in violation of any copyright laws. Richard Avery (talk) 07:29, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Are coins classified as "artistic work" by the UK government? See File:1936 George V penny.jpg. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 07:37, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Yes, but many of our coin images are non-free and used under a claim of fair use. For example, the current range of British coins. On the other hand, the copyright on some older designs, such as this old British ha'penny, will have expired and could therefore be incorporated into a logo without problems. AJCham 07:42, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

British coins are subject to Crown Copyright, which for these purposes expires January 1 of the year following the 50th anniversary of the design. I am uncertain which halfpenny he is referring to. The classic seated Britannia: I have my copy of the 1997 edition of Coincraft's Standard Catalogue of English and UK Coins 1066 to Date in front of me, and it says the classic right-facing Britannia was designed by William Wyon and his son Leonard Charles Wyon, and later modified by Thomas Brock (p. 589), and were first struck in 1838, although coins with a similar concept of Britannia (variations of a seated Britannia) go back to 1672 (in a time when the year did not end until March 24, and contemporary accounts say the halfpennies were not issued until after Christmas).(p. 583). Those earlier coins did not say "HALF PENNY" on them, this was not introduced until 1860. If we are talking about the "ship" halfpenny (1937-1970), that was designed by Thomas Humphrey Paget in 1936 (a few Edward VIII halfpennies were struck as patterns with a 1937 date). Both are safely out of copyright. The new halfpenny struck with dates from 1971 to 1984 (pages 619 to 620) was actually first issued as part of decimal set wallets in 1968, though with a 1971 date, and so I guess will be out of Crown Copyright in 2019. All British halfpenny coins are demonitised.--Wehwalt (talk) 08:48, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

I always said that decimalisation was the Devil's work! {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.66.103 (talk) 13:42, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

The metric system surely was. And probably soccer also. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:18, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

And how. I've worked on that article, by the way, but there is a shortage of online sources or I'd improve it further.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:50, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Cruise ship safety

Are safety standards on cruise ship declining? Since the Costa Concordia disaster in January, the BBC has reported problems with several other cruise ships: 3 Feb: British cruise ship passenger 'seen falling overboard', 27 Feb: Cruise ship Costa Allegra adrift off Seychelles, 31 Mar: Azamara cruise ship sails for Malaysia after fire repairs, and I'm sure there are a couple of other incidents I can't find right now. Do things like this happen regularly on cruise ships, or has it just been a bad couple of months for the industry? Astronaut (talk) 14:02, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

See Gambler's fallacy, which can be summed up with the statement "randomness happens in streaks", in other words, among relatively small sample sizes, otherwise random (i.e truly stochastic) events without direct causation can occur in streaks or clumps. Humans, seeking to find an expalanation for such randomness, erroneously try to assign a "cause" for such streaks. Which is not to say that your assessment of the safety standards of the cruise industry is correct, but that also doesn't say that it is incorrect. It is just that the temporal proximity of several apparently related events is, in itself, not convincing evidence that such events are related to each other, or indeed, anything at all, other than dumb luck. --Jayron32 15:42, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Except that cruise ship accidents are not random events. A rapid increase in global cruise passengers leads to a rapid increase in new cruise ships, while the pool of experienced and reliable captains remains relatively constant. Anonymous.translator (talk) 21:03, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Individual events have causes; but seperate events are not necessarily related. The question is not over whether or not each accident has a cause (it always does), it is whether or not the cause of two different accidents is related to each other (it doesn't have to be). The fallacy is in finding patterns in unpatterned events. --Jayron32 21:55, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

These events are related because they are the result of the declining quality of cruise ships, crew, and maintenance standards arising from the rapid expansion of the cruise industry over the past two decades. When the events are not truly random but are correlated with a common underlying cause then the Gambler's fallacy doesn't apply. 99.245.35.136 (talk) 23:19, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

To some extent there could be elements of Confirmation bias and the Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon (we really should have an article about that.) Here and here are a couple of articles on those subjects and the effect on the media. Wikipedia articles you might wish to take a look at include Hostile media effect and Selective exposure theory. Basically, once the media discovers that cruise ships have accidents, they find those accidents everywhere.

I haven't been able to easily find a reliable source of statistics on the frequency of incidents on-board cruise ships. http://www.cruisejunkie.com/events.html is a possibility, although it only details events reported in the media, which brings me back to the problem above. But there is a Huffington Post article from a couple of months ago which analyses some of the statistics. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 16:08, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

I'm inclined to endorse Cucumber Mike's observations about selective reporting and media bias, but it's also worth remembering that the cruising industry has grown remarkably in the last few decades. Worldwide, there were roughly 4.5 million passengers in 1990, 8 million passengers in 2000 [48], and 14 million passengers in 2005. There are twice as many vacationers at sea now as there were ten years ago. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 19:52, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Coming back to the question, it is not so much a question of standards declining, but of standards not keeping up with the massive increase in the size and the number of passengers (and relatively few qualified and experienced crew members) crammed onto these ships, a point made on last night's documentary on UK's Channel 4.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 10:36, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps the location of lifeboats on lower decks rather than the highest deck possible is an example. To me it seems to be a fundamental design and safety flaw to position the lifeboats at low level. Architecturally it may look good, but who cares how a ship looks when people are at risk of drowning? Oh, to begin with, the bean counter$ do. Benyoch (talk) 12:31, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Do you have some examples of this 'problem' in mind? In any event, I can think of a number of practical reasons why lifeboats might be better placed on a lower deck. Deploying boats from the topmost deck is complicated if the upper deck is not as large (long and broad) as the decks below; the boats would need to be cantilevered out over the perimeter of the decks below, which may be technically challenging at the best of times and potentially impossible if the ship is listing. Smaller upper decks also mean less space from which to deploy boats, and less space for passengers to assemble to board them. Deploying boats from the topmost decks mean the passengers on the lower decks have a long climb without elevators. (Counting rows of windows/portholes on the picture of the Costa Concordia, passengers on the lowest passenger deck only have to climb two decks; if the boats were on the top deck, they would have to climb up nine levels.) Deploying boats from one of the middle decks also shortens the average and maximum distances a passenger would have to travel to reach a boat. Recent cruise ships are so tall that deploying boats from the uppermost deck means an extremely long descent to the water that is potentially dangerous in high winds, whereas even the lowermost open deck is still a safe distance above the water. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 13:12, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

TenOfAllTrades ... you make some good points there, especially about the size of the top deck. Let's say, then, lifeboats on the highest possible deck. Examples of both high and low level lifeboats can be found using Google images>cruise ships. My armchair observer's view is that when a vessel lists the lower the lifeboat the quicker it will become unusable should the ship list so far that the lifeboats become 'trapped' by the superstructure or rendered inaccessible because of driving seas that rise up the side of the vessel. The higher the lifeboat the more time for evacuees to get to them. Your point about inoperable lifts could be valid depending on circumstances. Lifeboats on the highside will become inoperable and equally so regardless of the level of the lifeboat deck. I take your point, tho, about high winds, etc. The Costa Concordia has up to 8 decks above the lifeboat deck. It's a science and a safety trade-off, I expect, and I am not even a novice on the matter. Benyoch (talk) 13:40, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Whole Foods Market history

What was the exact location (i.e. address) of Safer Way in Austin, TX, which preceded the first Whole Foods Market? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.67.196.84 (talk) 14:16, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

The Whole Foods website indicates that this store is "just blocks from where Whole Foods Market began as a small neighborhood grocery store over 30 years ago." and serves as the company's "Flagship Store". That store is located on the corner of Lamar Blvd. and Sixth Street in Austin, so the original store is likely close by. You can contact them directly, someone there may likely be able to answer your question. --Jayron32 15:36, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Hotmail - creating folders

Hi. Currently, Microsoft Hotmail allows the creation of new folders. Is it possible to designate all senders of one email website address (for example, @facebook.com for all Facebook emails, or another website for all twitter emails) to go into a separate inbox? Any instructions available? Thanks. ~AH1 ^(discuss!) 15:31, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

I don't have a Hotmail account, so your milage may vary with this but with Gmail, I can do basically what you're asking by setting up a filter. So, it's probably in your settings somewhere under either Filters or Labels or some such terminology. Dismas|^(talk) 17:08, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Options -> More Options -> Customising Hotmail -> Rules for sorting new messages. Nanonic (talk) 17:45, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Most definitive reference for Drugs

If I am writing an academic paper and would like to cite a reference for the medical/pharmacological effects of common drugs such as Morphine or Codeine, what reference should I use? Is there some sort of "Gold-standard" book for common, well-established drugs? Thanks. Acceptable (talk) 19:26, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Physicians' Desk Reference, perhaps? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:35, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia has an article called Physicians' Desk Reference as well, describing the work. --Jayron32 19:44, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

See Drug Questions? Ask Curtis.

—Wavelength (talk) 19:47, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

How can the M&Ms factory prevent blonde workers from throwing out the W's?

Is that a problem to this day, or just in the past? Have they taken care of it yet? (If so, how?)

If not, my suggestion to prevent the throwing out of the W's is for a laser to read all the pieces, and have a machine above the conveyor belts stick out their mini-claws to turn the pieces around to all face the same way.

Then put the blonde employees on the one side of the conveyor so they ONLY see M's.

Will that work, and save the money otherwise wasted on the tossed M&M's in the long-run? Or will there be big downsides? (What, if so?)

But what ideas would you suggest, if different/better from this one? --Tergigress (talk) 20:35, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

It's not just the W's, it's also the 3's and the E's. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:39, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Tired jokes are tired. --Jayron32 20:45, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Every joke, like every face, is fresh to someone. On the other hand, let flogging horses lie, or something like that. —— Shakescene (talk) 20:53, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

For a much better M&M story, have a gander at this--Jac16888 ^Talk 21:27, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Mars meets Highlander. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:43, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

As every printer knoiws, it is simply a matter of "Who Shot the Serif?" Collect (talk) 21:28, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Dark suspicions have gathered around the hot head of his leaden-footed son Sam Serif, although some point an ink-stained finger at Sam's son Gill Sam Serif, well-known for harbouring a racially-tinged family prejudice against Egyptians like those associated with M & M and W & W. Investigators have been quoted (off the record) as saying, "We're quite familiar with this type of case. Let the experts sort this out." —— Shakescene (talk) 21:53, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Here's a better dumb blonde factory joke: "During the recent Tickle Me Elmo craze, the factory which makes them had to hire extra workers. One was a blond hired for quality control. Unfortunately, the toys she had processed all had to be returned as "inappropriately anatomically correct", after she was instructed to give each toy "two test tickles". StuRat (talk) 16:20, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Too much lead in the body

My aunt has recently been told that the amount of lead in her body is off the charts! We have been trying to figure out where she could have contacted it. One place is a AT&T headset she used for over 10 years (approximately 1953-late 1960's, early 70's) where she was a telephone operator. Where would I being to search for the amount of lead in those "old" head sets?.

Brianna — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.61.165.250 (talk) 21:49, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

It is also possible to get lead through lead paint. As lead paint gets old and flakes, it can become aerosolized and get in the air. I'm not sure about the metabolism of lead in the body, but I suspect it would be unlikely to remain in her system for 40 years. It is more likely that a more proximate source of lead is in her environment. --Jayron32 21:52, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps it's in her drinking water. RudolfRed (talk) 22:24, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

This is one of those questions that is almost certainly discussed with the medical professional who conducted the test in the first place. (If the test wasn't conducted by a medical professional – if, for example, it was performed by or for an alt-med shyster who wants to sell you a 'detox' kit – then your first stop should be a real doctor who can help you to interpret the results.) TenOfAllTrades(talk) 23:27, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Yes to the above! This rings alarm bells for me, ESPECIALLY if the person is recommending chelation therapy. Our article mentions the unapproved use of the therapy by "alternative medicine" practicioners in the controversy section. If that's the case, get a second opinion from a GP. Vespine (talk) 02:22, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

And, specifically, those pads you attach to your feet at night that turn dark by morning are normally used to convince people they are full of "toxins", but lead could also be claimed, if their goal is to convince you of the need for chelation therapy. They simply react with sweat, and always turn dark, no matter whose sweat is used. If we had a live human handy from 100,000 years ago, they would show the same reaction, so it has nothing to do with pollution and modern toxins. StuRat (talk) 16:14, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

April 2

Australian Pre-Decimal Banknotes

From my reading of this page, it appears that Australian pre-decimal pound notes were not demonetised. Am I correct? So if I found £5000 buried in my backyard, the Reserve Bank will exchange that for $10,000? Seems to good to be true! Do any Aussies on the page have any experience re this? I know that the old "paper" dollar notes can still be exchanged, since I recently was given an older $50 note which I took to the bank, which they exchanged for me on the spot. 121.44.244.169 (talk) 07:06, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

I have no personal experience of it, but I have no reason to doubt the information on the Reserve Bank's website. Forty-six years on, it would be increasingly uncommon for pre-decimal notes to be turning up in places outside collections etc. So, it would seem churlish to deny people the benefit of the money if they can establish it's legitimately theirs and given that it's hardly going to break the bank. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 08:19, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

I have never exchanged pre-decimal banknotes in Australia, but I have in the UK both at a commercial bank and at the Bank of England. As long as you find someone reasonably knowledgeable, you're fine. If not, you may have to argue or go to another bank. Note that many notes have a numismatic value exceeding face; you may do well to consult with a coin dealer, who may give you a modest premium even on very common notes (he can resell them to tourists, perhaps). You give an amount of $10,000; in the US a banking transaction involving that amount of cash would require a form to be transmitted to the Department of the Treasury under anti-money laundering legislation. Banks often go by this book, by the way. I have an old version someplace, it is very authoritative (and pricey, if you'd like a new one, I think I paid $3 for an obsolete one).--Wehwalt (talk) 08:55, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

The Bank of England says: "Genuine Bank of England banknotes that have been withdrawn from circulation retain their face value for all time and can be exchanged at the Bank of England in London. There is no fee for this service. Banknotes of this type can be exchanged either by post or in person." I'm not sure how this would work in Australia, but we tend to do these things in a similar way; "We be of one blood, thou and I". Alansplodge (talk) 14:25, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Another thing to consider, if you plan on finding $10,000 in your backyard, is Treasure Trove law. In the UK, large collections of old coins that are found with no known owner may, under certain circumstances, be defined as treasure and therefore property of The Crown. The situation in Australia is a little more complicated, but it would be advisable, in the event that you do turn up a hoard when digging your potatoes, to contact an expert (the curator of a local musem, for instance). - Cucumber Mike (talk) 15:58, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

If you are so lucky, I would consult with a solicitor first. Especially one with a reputation for being clueful, attuned to client's needs, and knowing how to get things done.--Wehwalt (talk) 09:49, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Frequency of post to different countries throughout the world

I've sent some postcards from some odd places in the past and it got me wondering. Do Royal Mail or any other postal services ever produce any lists of the amount of post that's sent to other countries? I'm particularly interested between any particularly large or small flows between two countries (or as a subsidiary question any particular routes that are the biggest). Thanks! --145.100.194.165 (talk) 15:23, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

I didn't find any statistics online in a (admittedly slightly brief) Google search. However, if you're prepared to do a bit of legwork, you might find what you're after in the Royal Mail archives. http://postalheritage.org.uk/page/archive-guides gives details of what is held, and http://postalheritage.org.uk/page/3290/Royal-Mail-Archive--Overview-Guide is a pdf listing all the records. In particular, POST 50 Post Office: Overseas Mail Services: Records on Air Mail 1919-1987 could be a good start. The Universal Postal Union also seem to collect some statistics, although I haven't been able to find out online if they keep the kind of data you're after. But it might be worth contacting them if you're thinking of doing some scholarly research. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 15:46, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia: Katana page

I've edited the history page several times to include historical context that Japanese had borrowed sword-making techniques and sword design from China. However, it's been repeatedly removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.119.129.74 (talk) 20:12, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

I think that's really an issue for the Help Desk or the Village Pump. Marco polo (talk) 20:39, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Do you mean this edit (and this edit to a related article) from when you might have been editing from a different location? Both were reverted because no references were supplied from reliable sources. Wikipedia relies on reliable sources so readers can verify article content. Astronaut (talk) 20:51, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

In any case, these sorts of disputes should be discussed at the article talk page. You can take your pick from Talk:Katana or Talk:Japanese sword - the former sounds like the best venue. --Dweller (talk) 08:35, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

April 3

Type of pants

What exactly do you call the pants that Kate and her backup dancers are wearing in this video? I notice that they were extremely common in the late 70s and early 80s, but I've no idea what they're called or what material they're made of that gives them their shiny appearance. 70.52.79.173 (talk) 09:17, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

I think they're called "stretch pants" and a Google image search does all but confirm that. This page agrees with me and those are similar to the pants worn in the video. Dismas|^(talk) 09:46, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Should a fact be removed from an articale that describe the context of events when it is related to POV ?

Could someone please visit Talk:March_2012_Gaza–Israel_clashes#retaliated_by_launching_vs_step-up_lunching_rocket_.28phrase.29 and help if removal of a fact (using diffrent phrase) is for the benifit of the articale ?