Wikipedia:Fringe theories/Noticeboard

Fringe theories noticeboard - dealing with all sorts of pseudoscience
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Search this noticeboard & archives Lowercase sigmabot III will archive sections older than 20 days Additional notes: Discussion of fringe theories will only depend on coverage in reliable sources. Medicine-related claims must comply with more stringent sourcing requirements, but we also generally prefer academic sources. We are not a forum to discuss fringe theories as such. Our goal is to improve articles about them, or create new ones if needed. For concerns about neutrality in articles not about fringe theories, use the neutral point of view noticeboard. Report article content that appears to violate the no original research rule at this noticeboard. Paste {{Resolved|Your reason here ~~~~}} at the top of the section when your concern was addressed. Deploy {{talk fringe|the fringe theory name}} to articles' talkpages under discussion.
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International Council of 13 Indigenous Grandmothers

This group has come up again WRT sourcing for a claim made in thunderbird. The article makes it sound terribly important, but from what I gather the thirteen women in question have no real call to speak for anyone about anything. It's not at all clear how they personally were selected. I'm increasingly inclined to question whether they should have an article, but at any rate the article needs major deflation. Mangoe (talk) 14:54, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

It is clear that they were selected by mystical calling of some sort. It's unclear whether this "council" has met at all since its inception in 2004, or what it actually does other than make new-agey pronouncements. Paul B (talk) 14:57, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Well, it's been nominated for deletion. It seems "Jeneane Prevatt" invited various female elders to meet regularly, which they do, so my comment above is inaccurate. Paul B (talk) 15:04, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Each Grandmother has her own page too it seems. Sourcing indicates there is no coverage from the mainstream, and so I'm fairly sure that these are not sufficiently notable to warrant an article each. Alexbrn ^{talk|contribs|COI} 15:13, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/International Council of 13 Indigenous Grandmothers. Heiro 01:11, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

This whole process of checking the references and establishing that they're dubious was a waste of people's time. One look at the article reveals that it doesn't belong in a serious reference work.Stenen Bijl (talk) 02:30, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

So. who's up for figuring out which of the grandmothers have Wikipedia pages and possibly going to AfD with them? --Guy Macon (talk) 09:05, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

I found eleven ten eleven (Clara Shinobu Iura and Maria Alice Campos Freire don't appear to have articles here):

• Aama Bombo
• Agnes Baker Pilgrim
• Beatrice Long Visitor Holy Dance
• Bernadette Rebienot
• Flordemayo
• Julieta Casimiro
• Margaret Behan
• Mona Polacca
• Rita Long Visitor Holy Dance
• Rita Pitka Blumenstein
• Tsering Dolma Gyaltong

and also, relatedly:

• Energy Muse

Alexbrn ^{talk|contribs|COI} 10:09, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

I blanked Flordemayo, since none of it is based upon reliable sources, and more generally is obviously ridiculous, but an "anti-vandal crusader" using automated tools restored all the material.Stenen Bijl (talk) 09:59, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

You might try prodding the ones that don't seem notable, and taking any challenged ones to AfD. Or requesting speedy deletes for those that are completely unsourced and promotional. I'm adding the lot to my watchlist. Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 10:28, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Why bother? According to MelbourneStar, I "may lose [my] editing privileges (emphasis mine.)" Why do I not feel that it's a "privilege" to be allowed to help clean up Wikipedia's mess? I think I'll pass.Stenen Bijl (talk) 21:34, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Flordemayo Heiro 22:05, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Notice how they all say that the subject "gained international recognition as a member of the International Council of 13 Indigenous Grandmothers"? Although this isn't at all true? All these articles are spam. They should all be deleted as a batch. If I understand administrator permissions correctly, this will take all of about two minutes.Stenen Bijl (talk) 03:20, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Julieta Casimiro Heiro 08:52, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/the remaining members of the council of grandmothers Mangoe (talk) 20:35, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

The "remaining members" AFD was extended for lack of consensus if anyone else wishes to comment. Gaijin42 (talk) 17:51, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

First Earth Battalion

First Earth Battalion (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

"The First Earth Battalion was the name proposed by Lieutenant Colonel Jim Channon, a U.S. soldier who had served in Vietnam, for his idea of a new military to be organized along New Age lines". Is this total moonbattery, or is there something to it? Anyone know anything about it? AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:17, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

It derives from The Men Who Stare at Goats. There are a few good sources that mention the topic within the context of "The Men Who Stare at Goats", but the rest is cut-and-pasted from something purporting to be the "First Earth Battalion manual" and articles that don't mention the "First Earth Battalion" at all. Inclined to merge it to The Men Who Stare at Goats. Or it could go into Jim Channon. - LuckyLouie (talk)

Cleaned up. Can possibly be merged to Jim Channon. - LuckyLouie (talk) 17:57, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Gwennan Gorn

Gwennan Gorn is a content fork of Madoc and should be a redirect. I've taken a break from my Wikibreak to comment on the many problems it has on its talk page. It's up for a DYK as well. Dougweller (talk) 11:51, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Tau

Outside the scope of this page, the subject of a recently closed RfC. a13ean (talk) 16:14, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

There seems to be an effort to keep tau the math constant from having a article. They claim that there is not enough "notable". I have yet to see any comment from the fringe theory side on this. What can be done? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Reddwarf2956 (talk • contribs) What can be done is respect the outcome of an RfC on the subject that closed less than a month ago. Give it some (substantial) time and if a new body of sources become available that show an enhanced notability, the issue can be reintroduced. Forum shopping shortly after a vote doesn't go your way is not a productive approach. Agricolae (talk) 15:07, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

James Bacque getting skewed again

The author of Other Losses is starting to pick up material again suggesting that people actually agree with the thesis of the book. Mangoe (talk) 21:17, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

PRISM (surveillance program)

This news story broke in the last 24hrs and a new article is growing at a rapid pace. Since certain aspects of this topic are a conspiracy-theorists' wet dream, fringe experts may want to keep an experienced eye on proceedings to ensure everything is being done properly. Alexbrn ^{talk|contribs|COI} 12:54, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

GM food controversies FAQ

Editors are invited to comment on (and improve) a draft FAQ for the Genetically modified food controversies page (possibly to be transcluded to related pages as well). This is a topic area associated with a lot of fringe science; editors familiar with the FAQs on other such pages (e.g. evolution, global warming) are especially welcome. The talk page section for discussion is here. Arc de Ciel (talk) 09:32, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Solutreans: The first Americans

This is an article about a Discovery Channel - also called "Ice Age Columbus: Who Were the First Americans". I can't find anything discussing it so maybe it should go to AfD. But at the moment the problem that I have is that it states as fact stuff that is either flat out wrong or misleading. We have a decent article on the Solutrean hypothesis so perhaps the best solution is to turn this into a redirect with a paragraph about it in the main article? The main article, for instance, makes it clear that DNA studies show that what I'm guessing is the DNA mentioned in the documentary didn't come via the Atlantic, but the article we have on the documentary says baldly "DNA evidence found a pattern that traced its lineage back to Europe in about a quarter of all Native Americans." It also says "Also, in sites across Europe and North America, stone age man apparently buried caches of oversized, thin spearheads that were impractical for hunting in ritualistic manners" - this has no context and I have no idea what is being referred to or what "impractical for hunting in ritualistic manners" even means. Dougweller (talk) 19:58, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Um that would be, "Also, in sites across Europe and North America, stone age man buried in a ritualised manner caches of oversized, thin spearheads that were impractical for hunting". Not saying it is true (though I have vague recollections of an archaeology lecture where something of the sort was mentioned). The point being made is that similar high-status objects (of limited utility) were being buried in both locations. AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:07, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

I think the sentence is intended to says that they buried "in ritualistic manners" spearheads that were impractical for hunting. There should be a comma after 'hunting' at minimum, but really the sentence should be rewritten. Paul B (talk) 20:09, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Humm, edit conflict: Like Andy says. Paul B (talk) 20:10, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

You can see this docudrama on You Tube [1]. Those Solutreans have cool face paint and seem to be speaking in Klingon. Paul B (talk) 20:26, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

I can see a one sentence mention of the show in the main article, but nothing beyond that. Interesting how many white supremacists groups show up high in the search results, though. Mangoe (talk) 21:26, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

No significant coverage of the show - the only reference is to IMDB, meaning it is all WP:OR. It needs to be redirected to Solutrean hypothesis, with one sentence added saying that the Discovery Channel broadcast a show in 2005, {give title}, promoting the hypothesis, or something of the sort. Agricolae (talk) 00:59, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

I've done the merge. Mangoe (talk) 18:40, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Theistic Evolution

Not exactly fringe per se, but related to the topic of creationism/evolution that input from regulars here would be helpful. The article on Theistic evolution seems to contain an awful lot of OR and synth based on primary sources. I've removed the worst of the material, lists of adherents and proponents that were either completely unsourced or synth. There is a discussion going on on the talk page. Would appreciate it if more editors would examine the article and weigh in. There is a valid topic here, but the article seems to have become a coatrack article on a vague concept. Thank you. Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 02:51, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

I think the article in large part is an extended piece of OR/SYN in which the editor(s) are riffing on the concept of "Theistic Evolution" (itself worthy of an article), and exploring how it might apply in various ways to various religions and positions. Alexbrn ^{talk|contribs|COI} 03:45, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

Power factor

Over at Talk:Power factor we have two editors who have been pushing the fringe claim that there is no such thing as a negative power factor despite there being exactly zero sources for that claim. Any additional eyes on the page would be most appreciated. Those who help will be given special privileges when I become Dalek Supreme... :) --Guy Macon (talk) 04:59, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

Definitely! Followers may also want to watch for multiple references that do not support arguments they were supplied for (bogus), and excessive usage of disruptive side arguments, poetry, personal attacks and IP sockpuppetry accounts. Please also note the article is currently locked in the editwarring position without valid support and not the original text. Please do help out if you have technical knowledge. Please help out with disruptive behavior there if you have WP knowledge. Thanks for forum shopping. :) 174.118.142.187 (talk) 12:10, 16 June 2013 (UTC)