Wikipedia:Help desk

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September 23

Death of editor

I have come across a reliable source that indicates a Wikipedia editor has died. Is there any custom about whether to note this on the user's page? Jc3s5h (talk) 00:35, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Deceased Wikipedians may help you. Often, impromptu memorials and well-wishers sometimes show up on Wikipedian's user pages as well. --Jayron32 01:01, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Removing citation after an episode airs

I have had this question for months. This is about referencing for TV shows. This is becoming a current issue on Dancing with the Stars (U.S. season 19). I know Wikipedia has many guidelines and policies about citing, but this is kind of logical. When adding a source for a dance, for instance, for a specific couple, we add the source. But this has been done and practiced on other pages as well (including DWTS) that when an episode airs we remove the source citing the dance they did. Considering it was seen on live TV by approximately 13-15 million U.S. viewers, is it necessary to cite the dances after the episode has aired? The scores are already referenced, is it really necessary to repeat it again. Also, this has been done on other TV shows. When an episode has been aired, the responsible crew for the episode, the sources are removed. For instance, Pretty Little Liars, Grey's Anatomy, and A LOT MORE. This should apply to already danced dance routines and the page itself, no? A know editor (to me anyways, they've contributed with 43,000 edits) has said this themself (skip to the third message in the beginning). "An aired episode is in itself a sufficient reference for its own content," they said, and I quote.

My final question (it's kind of mixed in my message): should the dances be referenced after the episode has aired? (This applies to scores, music, etc.)

I asked this question because an editor has been messing with the page, so I wanted to clear this out. An editor has made a point that can viewed on my talk page. Please ignore the personal opinion about the specific person.

And if you are going to answer no, please cite the policy in your answer so I can reference my edits.

Admins would be preferable to answer, please. (If you're not, it's fine)

Thanks,

Callmemirela (talk) 02:44, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

I cannot, for the life of me, imagine where removing a reliable source is more helpful to our readers. Yes, there is some information for which we are less demanding of sources (for example, plot summaries are generally assumed to be sourced to the work itself, because, duh). However, I've never heard of anyone arguing that a source should be removed to be replaced with nothing where sources already exist. I'm perplexed by any argument that says "This source was great yesterday, but today we don't need it anymore". --Jayron32 03:08, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Jayron32 I quite disagree. If an episode has been aired and the dance was done in public view and citation is needed, summaries should too. A summary can easily turn into fan fiction as well. The directors and writers responsible for the episode is never referenced after an episode airs. Neither should the DWTS with the scores, dances, music, etc. Those responsible for the episodes have their name written on TV, so were the scores. It can be easily seen. Why does the citation only apply to DWTS if the regular episodes from EVERY TV show does not do so as well. TV episode titles are never referenced either, well because it it's been confirmed and stuff. So have the scores, dances and music for DWTS. I personally disagree with that argument. If TV shows aren't referenced with those responsible for TV shows and the episode's summary, neither should the dances and scores after the episode has aired. Look at The Voice. The contestants, the judge's picks and the contestant's pick are neither referenced. It's one or another. This citation policy cannot be applied to just DWTS' information but not other TV shows. That is quite unfair. Callmemirela (talk) 03:41, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Removing the references is not a practice that falls under WP:V, since the information is now presented without a reference. Using Template:Cite episode is an alternative and accepted practice to cite information presented during the broadcast of a television episode. However, as references exist for the information, removing those references after the episode has aired is not aligned WP:IMPROVE. AldezD (talk) 03:11, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

A source that says "Tarzan and Jane have been signed for the upcoming season of Yet Another Unreality Show coming next month" cannot be a source for the article to state "Tarzan and Jane participated season 16 of Yet Another Unreality Show "; while the TV show itself (even if watched only by one person) is primary source that can verify that they appeared. A third party source that says "Last nights appearance of Tarzan and Jane on Yet Another Unreality Show ..." would still be better.

the dances scores music etc- while they can generally formally be cited to the primary source of the show itself- generally are merely WP:UNDUE coverage of WP:FANCRUFT and WP:TRIVIA based on the primary sources and Wikipedia editor's obsessions rather than what the third party reliable sources have deemed the important (a term used really loosely) about the subject. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 03:21, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Leaving a message

Hello, how are you?

I am having difficulty in trying to leave a message to one of my classmates?

Thanks ––Lolalore (talk) 05:34, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Dear Lolalore, Wikipedia is not a social networking service like Facebook or Twitter. You can talk to other Wikipedia users about creating an encyclopedia by using using talk pages. -- Sincerely, Taketa (talk) 05:52, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Hi, Lolalore, and welcome to Wikipedia! I see you have been using your user pages to learn how to use Wikipedia syntax – I wish more new editors would do that before starting to make "live" edits. Anyway, if your classmate has registered an account with Wikipedia, and you know their username, you go to their "talk page" and add your message at the bottom. Your own talk page, for example, has the URL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Lolalore and can be linked to here as User talk:Lolalore. Maproom (talk) 07:04, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

@Maproom: I've corrected the error in the URL, which could only cause confusion. -- John of Reading (talk) 18:53, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Unidentifiable cite error caused by cite doi

This article has an error message, Cite error: A list-defined reference has no name, in its References section. The error goes away when a ref, <ref name=Zhu2008>{{cite doi|10.1182/blood-2008-05-078154}}</ref>, is removed from the end of the second paragraph in this section. I need to correct the error to remove the article from an error tracking category, but I don't know how to do so. ‑‑Mandruss (talk) 06:49, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Hi Mandruss, the problem was in using the cite doi template. I have replaced this by a handwritten version [1], which removes the error. Also since this source was in there a couple of times already I made them all into a single ref. Sincerely, Taketa (talk) 07:44, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Thank you, but I was looking for a better understanding, a la teach a man to fish.

• Do all uses of cite doi produce this error? If not, what was different about this case that did?
• Was it impossible to correct the error while still using cite doi? If so, why?
• How did you determine what to replace the cite doi with? ‑‑Mandruss (talk) 07:53, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

The problem was at Template:Cite doi/10.1182.2Fblood-2008-05-078154 and not in the article. A bot didn't fill in the citation as it should and a user tried to fix it but didn't know how. The bot has since been fixed according to User talk:Citation bot/Archive1#Bot dev575 is failing to retrieve citation information for DOI citations (1 MB page, you don't need to read it). PrimeHunter (talk) 08:57, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, PrimeHunter. If I understand you correctly, it would have been better to correct the template and leave the article alone. What correction is required to the template? ‑‑Mandruss (talk) 09:41, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

I reverted the edits which broke the template, & the citation bot has filled in the remaining detail, so the template now looks OK. --David Biddulph (talk) 10:30, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

I reverted the article changes and the error is gone. Thanks. ‑‑Mandruss (talk) 11:37, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Fishing

The best time to go fishing, is every chance you get. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.177.118.215 (talk) 08:23, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Yes, but what is your question about how to use or edit Wikipedia. —teb728 t c 08:30, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

HELP me, please I was only selfish......the name of your site has rendered use of my computer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I chose to go into much of a curiosity location the information you say you have within your organization and access to requisite is quality...this is true for me. I cannot even retrieve my very important data that I have stored information. I want to have you correct the access Your computer that renders my Wikipedia source MY data us and then you must send the data you have that belongs to ME!

Lynn Edward Ganze cell number is (Redacted)

Please: unlock my computer and then make a an attempt to send me a response to your work you think you will have done for Me!

Lynn Ganze (Redacted) write me a note that explains all this work you have chosen make amends.

Thank you so very much,

Lynn Ganze — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:6000:9503:C100:6874:B895:58C9:9753 (talk) 10:41, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Any data on Wikipedia is not yours, it is content that has been generated by Wikipedia editors (perhaps even including you) and has been released under the CC BY-SA 3.0 License (see the agreement at the bottom of every submit page "By clicking the "Save page" button, you agree to the Terms of Use and you irrevocably agree to release your contribution under the CC BY-SA 3.0 License and the GFDL with the understanding that a hyperlink or URL is sufficient for CC BY-SA 3.0 attribution." Wikipedia does not lock your computer, although your editing of Wikipedia may be restricted or blocked for violations of various Wikipedia policies-- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 12:11, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Balzan FC kit colour

I would like to update the kit colour of Balzan FC from a current all red top (FF0000) to a horizontal red and white striped top. Please advise.

I would also like to show Balzan's second kit. This is all dark blue with a small white and red horizontal stripe in the chest area. Please advise. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Robmgt (talk • contribs) 12:52, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

In the section #Balzan F.C. above, it was suggested that you raise your query at Talk:Balzan F.C.. --David Biddulph (talk) 13:02, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Encyclopedia

How do I submit an artist biography for wikipedia Encyclopedia inclusion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Calliope22llc (talk • contribs) 15:40, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

You have already submitted your draft at User:Calliope22llc/sandbox, presumably by using the green "submit" button in the box at the top of the draft. It is therefore in the queue for review, but the result of the review is entirely predictable. You have no references to reliable sources (published, & independent of the subject) to demonstrate that the subject meets Wikipedia's requirement for notability, & specifically WP:Music. You also need to ensure that the article doesn't appear promotional. It must also not be a copyright violation by repeating information already published elsewhere. In this case the draft does seem to repeat material already published elsewhere, perhaps because your draft is a reprint of a press release. I've added some useful links in a welcome message on your user talk page. You need to read them, and particularly WP:Your first article. --David Biddulph (talk) 16:07, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

I have tagged the draft for speedy deletion as a copyvio of http://www.sonicbids.com/band/erinleah/ . The OP's user name is also a problem as it is the same as Ms Leah's record label, see the same page. If you wish to continue editing, please create a new account with a name that represents you as an individual and not the company. There is also a procedure for donating copyright materials but in this case it wouldn't help as the text is far too promotional and unencyclopedic.--ukexpat (talk) 16:43, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Buick customer feedback survey

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Dear Wikipedians, I am an employee of General Motors, working for Buick and we would like you to contact us via http://www.buick.com with your feedback.

Also, we would like to know how our SEO could be improved, any website feedback is welcomed.

Luisa, employee of General Motors, Buick division --LuisaBuickEmployee (talk) 16:48, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Weird external link created

Hi, I just left a comment here, and a portion of the comment was interpreted by the software as an external link (??). What's going on? Calliopejen1 (talk) 17:33, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

I'll leave it to someone who knows to explain why "RFC" followed by a number, without any markup, produces an external link to tools.ietf.org, as RFC 666. In the meantime, you can make your comment work by changing to something like RFC (1). ‑‑Mandruss (talk) 17:47, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

See WP:RFCAUTO. It's rarely used for RFC. PrimeHunter (talk) 18:26, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Odd. Thanks. Calliopejen1 (talk) 22:55, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Large amounts of primary material on social media necessary for article. How do I use it?

The 2014 Jadavpur University protest(s) is the first of its kind in India, intensively using social media for coordination and dissemination, making it first a national and now potentially an international movement (solidarity campaigns have taken place in Ann Arbor and been planned in New York). However, Wikipedia policy is to generally avoid citing such media as unreliable sources. Now several online 'battles' between students and state government officials/sympathizers have erupted, especially in the form of text and image campaigns on Facebook. There are also pages which serve as points for coordination between students across the country on an unprecedented scale. My question here is, how do I cite and show all this? ArkaBlue (talk) 20:08, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

You probably don't. You need secondary sources to evaluate and judge what is important. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 20:30, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

thank you

so I pretty much wait until a reliable news source reports bits and pieces of it, right? — Preceding unsigned comment added by ArkaBlue (talk • contribs) 21:05, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

@ArkaBlue: Yes, as Wikipedia is not the news. Articles should not report on the event, they should summarize what others are saying about the event. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 21:10, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. We newbies live and learn. Sometimes Wikipedia is so fast with it all, I end up reading it instead of the news.ArkaBlue (talk) 23:19, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

You may also wish to know that it's being discussed as a possible item for In the News on the front page, but concerns over the content in the article need to be addressed first. There's some guidance in the nomination as to what needs sorting (Wikipedia:In_the_news/Candidates#2014_Jadavpur_University_protests). CaptRik (talk) 21:59, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Thank you, I know. They've put me into the discussion too. This is all a little overwhelming, frankly speaking.ArkaBlue (talk) 23:19, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Need help an article

I want write an article but a bit scarred of you’re going to delete please help can I write this article

Finij

Stable release	2.2.1
Type	Student information system
Website	www.finij.com

Finij is a management software developer headquartered in London United Kingdom.

• It is a web based application can be used any time anywhere.
• It is cloud based software used in schools, properties, hotels, shops and solicitor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Barzaq (talk • contribs) 20:23, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Hi Barzaq. You need independent sources (e.g., in-depth reviews) to show the software is notable to have an article survive deletion discussions. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 20:39, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Davido

Davido (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Greetings Help desk. I need some clarification with the nationality parameter on Wikipedia. Davido was born in America but lives in Nigeria. Since he has both an American and Nigerian passport, should his Biography read: Davido is a Nigerian American recording artist .... or Davido is an American born Nigeria recording artist...? Which is correct. I need some clarification because I believe the former is right. Thanks. Versace1608 (Talk) 01:28, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

Sorry you haven't had any reply to this. The description currently found in the article, "an American-born Nigerian recording artist", seems to describe his situation well. It would seem odd to describe someone of Nigerian descent and nationality, making a career in Nigeria, as "Nigerian-American", that is to say, an American of Nigerian descent.: Noyster (talk), 21:50, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Reviving sleeper account

I'm assuming my account has gone into sleeper mode but I'm not clear how to re-activate it. I've read FAQs and numerous help pages, and I believe my account should be in good standing.

I'm not getting the link to reset the password, I've tried both inserting username and email separately. Creating a new account with my old username doesn't work, because the system says that username is taken. What's your advice to revive an account or get a hold of my old username? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.156.58.235 (talk) 21:17, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean by sleeper mode but accounts and passwords never expire and there is nothing to reactivate. It doesn't matter how along ago you last logged in or edited. If you have forgotten the password and cannot receive password mails at the address stored in the account, or no address is stored, then you have to create a new account with another name. Note that for privacy reasons, the message you see at Special:PasswordReset does not reveal whether an entered email address is actually stored in an account. If you have other email addresses you may have stored in the account then check those. If the account has no edits, or in some cases a few insignificant edits, you may be able to get a new account renamed to the old name at Wikipedia:Changing username/Usurpations. We can say more if you tell the username. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:43, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Please check a reference for me?

I'm at work and can't reach the reference used for the birth date in the Ariel Rebel article. This edit changed it but I can't verify it. Could someone who isn't behind a restrictive firewall help out here? Thanks, Dismas|^(talk) 23:35, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

The cited source does not seem to mention her day and month of birth anywhere. I did find this (NSFW) source that says March 14th. I'm going to change that now. Note to self, in the future read the first line of the article before clicking on external links. Howicus (Did I mess up?) 00:15, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Sorry about that. I often will mention that the subject is potentially NSFW but I didn't this time. I'll try to remember to keep up the habit of mentioning that when I need to make another request in the future. Dismas|^(talk) 04:05, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

The linked reference only says 1985 today. The Internet Archive shows it once said 14 march 1985 [2] like our article before. But https://twitter.com/ArielRebel/status/514400738307743744 from 23 September 2014 says: "For everybody who asked... My real birthday is September 23, 1985 :) I'm 29 for real today lol :) I'm a fall equinox baby ^_^". I guess the user saw that or someone mentioning it. It's her offical Twitter account linked from her website. I don't know whether to trust the subject or the subject – not our usual dilemma when there are conflicting sources. Or should we mention both dates and reference both of them to the subject? PrimeHunter (talk) 00:27, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

I want to see her driver license (the one thing she hasn't shown us already). ‑‑Mandruss (talk) 00:51, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

September 24

antique guns

What does the term "in the black' mean as it relates to antique guns? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.234.78.34 (talk) 01:31, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

If it doesn't mean its normal dictionary meaning (netting a profit/ahead/solvent; in this context, I suppose it could be via sale of antique guns) then I have no idea, but this page is not for general knowledge questions but for those related to editing or using Wikipedia. A place that is tailor made for this type of question is the language section of our reference desk. I'd ask there.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 02:01, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Article "Oil war"

I clicked on the talk link for the article Oil war and found that it had been redirected to Talk:Heglig_Crisis. Further examination of the history showed that the talk page (and the article) had been moved to Talk:Sudan Oil War back in May 2012. It was again moved to Talk:2012 South Sudan–Sudan border conflict, then to Talk:2012 South Sudan–Sudan border war, and finally to Talk:Heglig Crisis. On July 25, 2012, someone took out the redirect on the Oil war page and started to rebuild the article as a disam page. The earliest edit comment in the history of Talk:Oil war says:

"13:16, 14 May 2012‎ Luis Molnar (talk | contribs)‎ . . (32 bytes) (+32)‎ . . (Luis Molnar moved page Talk:Oil War to Talk:Sudan Oil War) (thank)"

And the article (Oil war) has a similar comment for its first edit comment. I don't understand how the first edit comment can be a move. How can the first edit comment in the history of a page be a move? What was moved if the article didn't exist? I searched through the talk pages of all those talk pages and could not find the original content of Oil war or Talk:Oil war. It looks like maybe the edit history/histories has/have been modified. Could someone with more experience and the appropriate permissions please examine the situation to see if the original content of the article Oil war and its talk page can be recovered? Sparkie82 (t•c) 04:07, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Everything that was in Oil War, from March 27 till May 14, 2012 is in Heglig Crisis' history. Same for the talk page. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:47, September 24, 2014 (UTC)

Yes, as Help:Page history#Moved and deleted pages says: "When a page is moved (renamed), the entire edit history of the article, before and after the move, is shown. The old title becomes a redirect and loses its edit history." PrimeHunter (talk) 09:42, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

I guess I just assumed that that article would have existed before 2012, given recent world history. Thank you for verifying that. Sparkie82 (t•c) 15:43, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Indian Map

Hi,

Sikkim while i referring this page you have shown the Indian Map without Kashmir, Kindly change the map which includes Kashmir. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 175.100.150.172 (talk) 07:25, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

I guess you know of the Kashmir conflict. The map shows who controls a disputed area. Talk:India/FAQ says:

"Q6: The map is wrong!

A6: The map shows the actual borders and all related claims; it cannot exclusively present the official views of India, Pakistan, or China. See WP:NPOV."

Note that areas controlled by India but claimed by Pakistan are shown as in India, so we don't side against India. PrimeHunter (talk) 09:30, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

algorithms

algorithms in wiki pedia can explain in most efficient way — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.225.29.34 (talk) 07:46, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

If you have a specific question about Wikipedia then please clarify it. PrimeHunter (talk) 09:34, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Editing "hypertext"

This is my first attempt at writing an article, so the question is very basic... it will include a list of operas (in alphabetical order) and I'd prefer to put any articles after the title e.g. Sonnambula (La), but the hypertext automatically puts it at the beginning - how can I edit the hypertext?--ScozzeseVolante (talk) 08:25, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

It sounds as if you might be looking for a piped wikilink. [[La sonnambula|Sonnambula (La)]] will diplay as Sonnambula (La) but link to La sonnambula. Details of how to do it are at Wikipedia:Piped link. --David Biddulph (talk) 08:43, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

If you've not seen them already, you might also want to check out the existing Lists of operas and the pages/categories linked from there. If you see something in those articles styled the way you like, then you can click Edit and see the source text for it. CaptRik (talk) 09:13, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Chikwe Nkemnacho

I need all information about me removed from wikipedia as they are not for public consumption. Please handle urgently. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.157.187.113 (talk) 09:43, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

You don't have a right of veto over what appears on Wikipedia about you. If the content can be verified by material published in reliable sources about you, and if you meet Wikipedia's definition of notability, then the article can stay. You may wish to read the advice at Wikipedia:Blp#Dealing with articles about yourself. --David Biddulph (talk) 09:57, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

I have proposed Chikwe Onoriode Nkemnacho for deletion as a biography of a living person that has no references whatsoever. It did have a website as an external link, but the website seems not to exist. Arthur goes shopping (talk) 10:02, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Looks a little A7-ish to me, so I have tagged it for speedy deletion as such.--ukexpat (talk) 12:11, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Spam Link in Medical Mutual of Ohio Article

A link was added last year to the "External Links" section of the "Medical Mutual of Ohio" article (Medical Mutual of Ohio).

The link in question is titled "Medical Mutual of Ohio Rates", and it links to an insurance quoting site.

I was hoping to have this link removed, but don't want to do it myself due to a conflict of interest. I have also added this request to the talk page for Medical Mutual of Ohio, but I do not believe that the talk page is frequently monitored.

Leaving a message here was suggested on one of the "Contact Wikipedia" pages (Wikipedia:Contact us - Subjects). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Widgetfan88 (talk • contribs) 15:57, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

 Done--ukexpat (talk) 16:37, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Arnold Perl bio

To Whom It May Concern: I am the son of Joseph Stein, the librettist (or book writer) of 'Fiddler on the Roof.' In Wikipedia's entry for the writer/producer Arnold Perl, there appears the following:" Perl also wrote the play Tevye and his Daughters which was later adapted to the musical Fiddler on the Roof.[1]" This is wholly inaccurate. My father adapted 'Fiddler' from the short stories of the Yiddish writer Sholom Aleichem and used not a word by Arnold Perl; and, indeed, resented (and a;ways corrected) any suggestion to the contrary. In fact, when he and his collaborators were writing the show, Perl was a nuisance, since he held the rights to Sholom Aleichem's work. They retrieved those rights at a very steep price -- Perl got a small percentage of the royalties (which made him very rich) and the show's posters read 'By Special Arrangement With Arnold Perl.' But, again, he had no input on the show they produced, which, beyond the names of several characters, had absolutely nothing to do with his earlier play. For verification, check out either of the two books that recently appeared in conjunction with the show's fiftieth anniversary: 'Miracle of Miracles' or 'Tradition.' Both go into considerable detail on the show's origins, and also deal with Perl and the brouhaha over the rights. -- Harry Stein — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.188.178.181 (talk) 17:12, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

We follow what the reliably published sources say. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 17:58, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

... which may change as more sources become available. The source cited in the article, doollee.com, does not look particularly reliable; I would prefer Tradition! by Barbara Isenberg, but it is not yet available in my country. Maproom (talk) 19:26, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

There is a significant excerpt from Tradition at http://us.macmillan.com/excerpt?isbn=9780312591427 that includes the quote

The book writers, or librettists, on musicals are often underappreciated, and Harnick felt Stein was among them. Said Harnick, “Some of the critics praised him, but others said he had such an easy job—all he had to do was to quote the stories. But there were very few lines that he could use. There were some. But I would say that ninety-five percent of the show, he had to invent. It was all Joe Stein.”

A good start, I think.Naraht (talk) 19:42, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

After reading the alleged Harry Stein's initial comment, I did some research and found that his claims seemed to be true. See http://us.macmillan.com/excerpt?isbn=9780312591427.

"The book writers, or librettists, on musicals are often underappreciated, and Harnick felt Stein was among them. Said Harnick, “Some of the critics praised him, but others said he had such an easy job—all he had to do was to quote the stories. But there were very few lines that he could use. There were some. But I would say that ninety-five percent of the show, he had to invent. It was all Joe Stein.”

I changed the wording to reflect this and kept the original reference, while adding this one. Derstacker (talk) 21:59, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

using "of Jewish" origin", but any other religions etc.

Invariably, when a person of Jewish decent, is profiled, you, and others say "of Jewish decent" always, but I hardly ever see others says what their religious origins are. Ehy must you that? I feel that it's kind of an expose, and there is enough antisemitism in this wpr;d a;ready. I am proud to be Jewish, but I don't need the rest of the world to know. PS I will probably never be in Wikipedia anyway. But I do love the service you provide and as a contributor. ~~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.153.7.113 (talk) 22:09, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

It's more a matter of providing information about ethnicity than religious background (take a look at Ethnoreligious group). And simply, Wikipedia considers being Jewish to be as relevant as one's race or gender. This is the result of many, many debates; a particularly fundamental one can be read here. This is kind of out of my scope of experience but I hope this helps somewhat. Scarce2 (talk) 00:30, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

"Wikipedia considers being Jewish to be as relevant as one's race or gender". No it doesn't. Please do not misrepresent Wikipedia policy. AndyTheGrump (talk) 01:23, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

We describe a person as being Jewish only if they self-identify as Jewish, for example, in an interview in a reliable source. We describe Jewish ancestry only if that fact is described in a reliable source. Jewish origin can not easily be compared to other religious origins, because Jewish identity has very strong ethnic, cultural and nationalistic components, in addition to religious ones. In conclusion, Wikipedia biographies ought to summarize what reliable sources say about the person. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 01:04, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Self-identification surely isn't enough. We should only mention someone's religion and/or ethnic background if it has relevance to the reason we are mentioning that person. That would be pretty rare. HiLo48 (talk) 01:12, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

The bar needn't be as high as "the [singular] reason we are mentioning" a person, but there should be some relevance to a person's public life in their religion, ethnicity, culture, or race. It's hard, for example, to understand the full context of John F. Kennedy's presidency without acknowledging that he was Catholic; contemporary and modern commentators give his religion significance, and Wikipedia should reflect that significance in its due (giving it no more and no less significance than reliable sources do). That we wish it were not so important doesn't mean it wasn't. That doesn't mean the religion of every U.S. President had such significance; every case and every article must be dealt with on its own terms. Race, ethnicity, and religion are important to understanding the full context of many (though not all, and probably not even most, but enough) notable people's lives that we cannot ignore it in those cases where it matters. I certainly agree with you, to a point HiLo, that we should not be granting such facts about a person more significance than it bears mentioning. That someone is Jewish doesn't need to be a defining characteristic in their biography, and where it isn't, we shouldn't be making a big deal out of it. But where it is, we should give it its due. --Jayron32 01:26, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Yes, we should - though sadly Wikipedia seems to attract contributors with something of an obsession for tagging people by ethnicity for no good reason. AndyTheGrump (talk) 01:20, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Yes, no question about JFK's religion being mentioned. It was a huge issue around the time of his election. What bothers me more is when religion or ethnicity is mentioned for people like sports and media stars. It's usually quite irrelevant, but some seem obsessed with it. HiLo48 (talk) 01:30, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Is it incorrect that Jackie Robinson's article gives prominence to his race? Should we ignore the importance of Jewishness in the careers of prominent Borscht Belt comedians? I agree with you that, for people for whom there is no significance to their culture, race, or religion, it shouldn't be given prominence, we cannot say that there are no sports stars or media personalities for whom such facts of their lives would every be relevant. It isn't that race/religion/whatever should never be mentioned for sports stars or media personalities, its that it should only be mentioned in due proportion to the fact of their race/religion/whatever to their biography as is represented in reliable sources. I agree that the fact that someone's great aunt being Jewish is not necessary to mention in an article about a soccer player to whom such a fact is irrelevant to their biography. But one cannot say it is never relevant in any cases. --Jayron32 01:39, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Sometimes it's relevant, sometimes it isn't. The question to ask is how much weight do the sources we cite attach to it? Far too often, we seem to end up with a long discussion on the religion of so-and-so's maternal grandmother or whatever, sourced to an obscure website that has next-to-nothing else to say on the actual subject of the article. It does little to enhance the credibility of Wikipedia as a serious biographical source. AndyTheGrump (talk) 01:46, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Agreed. --Jayron32 01:50, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Mahfouz Bin Marei Bin Mahfouz / The Mahfouz Foundation

Hi there,

I have created the English version many times and every time the page is deleted without sufficient support from the Wikipedian who deleted the page. And everytime i ask anyone for an assistance either i get ignored or they are very busy and do not have time to respond.

So, please i need your assistance to retrieve the page of Mahfouz Bin Marei Bin Mahfouz as well as the page of The Mahfouz Foundation.

As you can see from the pages, they are very important for charities, students and patients in UK, Middle East and Worldwide.

Also, the Arabic version of the page of Mahfouz Bin Marei Bin Mahfouz is already approved in Wikipedia Arabic as per the link below:

https://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%85%D8%AD%D9%81%D9%88%D8%B8_%D8%A8%D9%86_%D9%85%D8%B1%D8%B9%D9%8A_%D8%A8%D9%86_%D9%85%D8%AD%D9%81%D9%88%D8%B8

Please help me as i have been more than three months trying to create the pages and evertime i create them they get deleted.

Of course, any advice and suggestions from your are very welcomed.

Thank you in advance for your cooperation and assistance and look forward to hearing your positive feedback asap.

Kind regards, AhmadMidoahmad (talk) 22:38, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Hello, Midoahmad. The reasons for the deletions are detailed on your talk page, and the pages linked from there. The first time, it appears to have been because you copied material from another (copyright) website which is not permitted. All the other times are because your draft article did not demonsrate that either the person or the foundation meet English Wikipedia's criteria for notability. For an article to survive in the English Wikipedia, there must be substantial writing about the subject of the article in reliable published sources, independent of the subject, and the article must reference these sources.

Each language Wikipedia is independent, and may have different rules, so just because there is an article in Arabic Wikipedia does not guarantee that there can be one in the English Wikipedia. The other important thing to realise is that Wikipedia may not be used for promotion. It does not make any difference how worthy or unworthy a subject is: all that matters is whether other reliable sources have already found it worth writing about.

I suggest you read your first article, and then if you still think that the sources exist which will make it possible to write such an article, use the article wizard to create your draft in a place where you can develop it without getting it deleted. --ColinFine (talk) 22:56, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

September 25

How to alphabetize contents

Is there a way to make Content box Headings automatically be in alphabetical order? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.213.43.100 (talk) 01:17, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

No. The software that creates a content box lists the contents in the order in which they appear, just as the table of contents in a book lists the chapters in the order in which they appear. It is a list of contents, not an index. For further information on Wikipedia's auto-generated tables of contents, see WP:TOC. --Orange Mike | Talk 01:20, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Can't get into page

Hi, I've tried create the page List of Yoshukai Yudansha. I put a link into the Yoshukai Karate page that now looks like it links to the list page; however, I can't open the list page. What I did was set up a description and an alphabetical structure, but I didn't put in any names in before I saved. Has this messed it up somehow? Any suggestions about why it won't open? Can anybody fix this for me so I can put in some names? Many thanks for any advice. Pkeets (talk) 02:45, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Update: Got into the page through a different browser, added a few names, got stuck again. It looks like I've failed to close the columns. Can anyone fix this for me? I can't get in. Pkeets (talk) 02:59, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

OK, I'm not sure what exactly the problem is, but having a bunch of empty {{columns-list}}'s seems to throw Chrome into a loop. The critical number appears to be somewhere between 12 and 26, when I removed the entries after L, the loop went away, but rendering was seriously messed up (which I think is just a lesser symptom of the same problem). I removed all the empty columns-lists, and the page seems OK now. Probably someone should figure out what the problem actually is, but for now, just don't add empty columns-lists (add it when you actually have an item under that letter). Rwessel (talk) 05:12, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks! All is well now. Somebody has already stuck notability and sources tags on the page. Are those necessary for lists spun of from other articles? Pkeets (talk) 05:26, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

I have opened an item at the Village Pump. Village_pump_(technical)#Rendering.2Floop_problem_with_multiple_empty_columns-list_template_on_a_page_in_Chrome Rwessel (talk) 06:06, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

@Pkeets: Absolutely - take that list page in isolation and ask yourself how does any reader verify that the content on the page is factually accurate. If the list was spun-off from a previous page then presumably its content was referenced there? In which case you can copy the references to the new page and re-use them. CaptRik (talk) 08:23, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

do not allow notes at top of page.

Bold text

1. Wikipedia is the most important public reference in history.

  publish it as a reference.
  notes at top of page are for pre-published drafts, 
  not for the public copy.
  notes interrupt the information process. 
  they belong at end of pages, or as separate templates.
  
  notes about Lepidoptera moths are on almost every Earth plant reference.
  bugs eat anything. no note is needed.
  

2. eliminate the advertising trash.

  "summer of monuments" sounds like a kiddy field trip 
  to a useless statue of a god 
  that rich people paid for with our survival fund.
  

3. (silly name) "Wikipedia". change it.

  see the other stupid baby talk 
  that unskilled rich fools and their employee pets put on us: 
  "e Baby", "GooGoo", the "WeeWee" phone,
  Microsoft Table Top Menu, Windows Gay Bar, "floppy" and "hard drive",  
  look up your dress on your prison "cell" phone.
  use generic names, or communication will fail.

thank you all for the good work.

- james mcashan for the United States Senate 
  (independent. not a party employee, therefore not listed by them)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.199.46.33 (talk) 02:57, 25 September 2014 (UTC) 

Thank you for your contribution, James Mcashan. Almost everything in Wikipedia is determined by consensus, and anybody may argue for changing that consensus. The best place to try and do that is at one of the sections of the Village pump. To change consensus, you will need to marshal arguments to persuade people that your suggestion is a good one. It makes very little difference whether you are a US Senator or a schoolboy: it is the persuasiveness of your arguments that matters. Speaking personally, as one ordinary Wikipedia editor among thousands, I find that your imperious tone and dismissive language have already alienated me from wanting to consider your proposals.--ColinFine (talk) 15:27, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

I appreciate your efforts in even making sense of his proposal. JIP | Talk 17:08, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Esther Hicks

Why does the Esther Hicks biography not have criticisms about the teachings. It seems to be only self promotional. Who is responsible for the information on this page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.167.161.196 (talk) 05:57, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

In my view the article does a good job. It states the claims that she makes, but only as claims. It makes it clear enough that she's a fraud. Maproom (talk) 07:11, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Like all Wikipedia articles, the content is determined by consensus: there is no curator or moderator. If you think an article can be improved, you are welcome to being a discussion about it on the article's talk page, in this case Talk:Esther Hicks. Please be aware that all information that goes into an article must be supported by referenced to reliable published sources. --ColinFine (talk) 15:30, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Ref Marks Without Content

I made an addition to a page, adding ref marks, then got the message: "There are reference marks without content." So, I removed the offending marks I had just added: <ref>...</> and saved the page, but still get the above message. This is the page:

Ascended master

I would appreciate help in correcting this.

Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by DharmaMountain (talk • contribs) 07:09, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Right at the beginning of the article, you had added <ref></ref>. I have deleted it for you. Maproom (talk) 07:14, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

@DharmaMountain: See Help:Page history for how to examine your saved edits. The problem happened in this diff. It's a common consequence of clicking ref when the cursor is not in the right place. It also happens to experienced editors like me but we know to look out for it and remove the markup again. PrimeHunter (talk) 09:58, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

It was (so I assume still is) a problem with older versions of IE - even if you placed the cursor in exactly the right place, when you selected "Cite" the cursor jumped to the top. - Arjayay (talk) 10:49, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Cite errors caused by Certification Table Entry

Unable to determine how to correct cite errors at the end of Kylie Minogue albums discography. Errors are apparently related to use of {{Certification Table Entry}}. I need to correct the errors to remove the article from an error tracking category. ‑‑Mandruss (talk) 11:59, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

References 15 and 32 have template markup exposed. Looking at this now. --  Gadget850 ^talk 12:03, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

And 39. Three exposed, three cite errors. ‑‑Mandruss (talk) 12:07, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

All of those use {{Certification Table Entry}}. That template is not a citation template, it is used to create a table. By using it, you are stuffing table markup into the reference markup, then that is stuffed inside another table. Use a proper Citation Style 1 template to match the other citation templates. --  Gadget850 ^talk 12:13, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

I have added this to the help page for this error. --  Gadget850 ^talk 12:18, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

I converted all {{Certification Table Entry}} to {{cite certification}}, since some of the other refs in that table use the latter. I haven't a clue what I'm doing—I don't maintain discography articles, my only interest is in cleaning up the tracking category—but it at least looks much better than before. Thanks for the assistance. ‑‑Mandruss (talk) 12:48, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

That template is appropriate. It uses {{cite web}} which is part of the Citation Style 1 series. --  Gadget850 ^talk 13:50, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Kerwin Swint

Hello, I'm Kerwin Swint. The wikipedia page about me had some confusion two years ago over a photo on the page that resulted in this heading at the top of the page: "A major contributor to this article appears to have a close connection with its subject. It may require cleanup to comply with Wikipedia's content policies, particularly neutral point of view. Please discuss further on the talk page. (October 2012)"

Subsequently the confusion was cleared up, but the heading is still there. Can someone please remove that wording at the top? It's from October 2012. Someone going to that page gets a bad first impression. Thanks very much. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.218.13.34 (talk) 13:35, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Purely by evaluating your request from the viewpoint of what's of benefit to the encyclopedia I have removed the COI tag at the top of the article ([3]). From reviewing the history of the article I can see the current version seems to be a decently balanced article when compared to some of the early revisions. Just a small note, I've done this based upon my own view and other user's may wish to challenge it. CaptRik (talk) 14:40, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Deleted OTRS submission

Three images were added to Misty Copeland at one time by Anna Frodesiak. I believe they were all part of OTRS ticket #2014081710007206. If File:Misty Copeland's Firebird cover.jpg was deleted, I imagine the other two File:Life In Motion.jpg and File:From the ballet Coppelia.jpg should be in the same peril. Can someone look into this issue?--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:08, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

P.S. Ellin Beltz deleted the file.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:10, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

I just checked the ticket and it looks OK to me, so perhaps you should leave a message for Ellin Beltz requesting an explanation for the deletion.--ukexpat (talk) 15:17, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

I can explain. I wrote to her agent and asked for images on August 9, 2014. The letter (search "dear" here) suggests that she either upload herself or that I could do it for her. Both happened. I don't remember details beyond that very well, but I know she uploaded images but then couldn't find the images. Then she emailed me low-res images, and also uploaded some of the same, but higher. She sent the OTRS for the ones she uploaded. The last action was me asking her for a headshot and telling her that Redbird needed OTRS. She never replied or acted on that last email. I watched the OTRS expire and saw the image deleted and figured that was then end of it. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 20:14, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Guidance helping to set up a community of contributors to write articles on historic sites in Normandy France linked to GPS apps.

I found a number of different smartphone and tablet apps were accessing Wikipedia articles for their content as I moved throughout the European countryside. Usually the content linked from communes as they are smallest geographical/political unit.Consequently I have written Wikipedia articles on historic sites in Lower Normandy France.

To improve the number of articles about the history rich French countryside for anyone interested, travelers and others there needed to be more contributors. A number of expatriate English speaking potential contributors and editors seem interesting to create articles keeping the new GPS smartphone software in mind. I would like guidance on which communities here to network with and how to do it. The initial thrusts was to have this project as a 70 anniversary D'day initiation but the full scope would any historical/natural site in region.

I've seen the UK town using tagged locations and Wikipedia, which is useful. I'm not aware of others. Ideally articles would have some sort of geotag to link someone visiting the site to the article. Perhaps this exist already. I am aware that Wikipedia is not a guide but well written articles could function both as a guide and for the non/site reader. I know this seems vague but any advice is appreciated. If successful the program could be used anywhere in the world. Thanks for your help. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mlane78212 (talk • contribs) 15:19, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Maybe WP:MILHIST and WP:FRANCE?--ukexpat (talk) 15:31, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

How not to have your page deleted?

Hello,

I translated 2 pages and I've been advised that they will be deleted: " Hello, Lemieuxpilon4dart. I wanted to let you know that I’m proposing an article that you started, Michel Lemieux, for deletion because it's a biography of a living person that lacks references. If you don't want Michel Lemieux to be deleted, please add a reference to the article.

If you don't understand this message, you can leave a note on my talk page.

Thanks, Wgolf (talk) 18:19, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Now that I've added few references, how can my pages not be deleted???

Thank you very much for your help

Lemieuxpilon4dart — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lemieuxpilon4dart (talk • contribs) 15:31, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

On your user talk page I've added a number of useful links including WP:Your first article, and specifically some information about referencing. In the 2 articles which are threatened with deletion you have added links such as to the circle du soleil web page, but since that page makes no mention of the subjects of your two articles, it isn't any use as a reference. The warning messages at the top of each of your articles contain links to explain each of the problems your articles have, so you need to read those. You may want to move your attempts into your user area as userspace drafts, and that will give you more time to work on them and sort out the problems before submitting them for review as to their suitability as mainspace articles. --David Biddulph (talk) 16:12, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Adding a link to primary sources

IK am trying to edit a page for William E. Barrett - author. I am an archivist at the University of Denver and we have his papers. I am trying to create a link to our finding aid for the Barrett papers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Steven P. Fisher (talk • contribs) 15:50, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Hello @Steven P. Fisher: thanks for coming by to contribute this valuable resource! There's a Wikipedia guideline at Wikipedia:External links that goes over how, and why, to enter an external link. If you have more specific questions, feel free to ask! --Jayron32 16:01, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

"You have made an edit"- which I didn't

On opening up a Wikipedia page (about Gerridae, to be exact, directed from Bulbapedia) , I got a message saying I had made an edit to a certain page, which led me to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Ball?diff=427924704

The following text was supposedly added by me: Tobi Odugbesan rocks, bithces be crazy I have no idea how this happened, or how this was linked to me as I have never edited a wiki page nor do I know who Tobi Odugbesan is. If this is anything to do with my IP address being framed or something, I am slightly concerned. However, I would like to know how something like this occurred.

82.12.78.61 (talk) 16:45, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

As noted at the bottom of your talk page: "This is the discussion page for an IP user, identified by the user's IP address. Some IP addresses change periodically, and may be shared by several users. If you are an IP user, you may create an account or log in to avoid future confusion with other IP users. Registering also hides your IP address." --  Gadget850 ^talk 16:51, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

That message was left on that talk page 7 May 2011. Another person using the IP address 82.12.78.61 made an edit and was warned about it. You are the first person that has used that IP address and go to the talk page since the message was lwft over 3 years ago. You can safely ignore the message. GB fan 16:53, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Regarding my account and connection with other users on Wikipedia

Dear sirs, I have been editing on Wikipedia for some time now. However, I am not a regular and am not entirely sure about many of the regulations etc. Recently, someone (another editor) in a discussion accused me of being something called a 'sock puppet'; by which I understand the editor meant that I was somehow cheating or doing something dishonest, or had separate accounts which I was manipulating here, for some ulterior motives. This isnt true. I was hurt by this accusation but I also appreciate the concern and I would like to please have help/guidance from other editors and admins, on these points:

• I have already listed some people who share the same IP address/es with me from the location from where we access the Net, so is that ok?
• And I also have 2-3 people here whom I know and who are my personal friends in real/not net life, and we share the same interests in several areas and topics and in the past have even edited some articles in common. Is that bad or unethical? And what should I do about that please? How can I clarify that someone is known to me and is not me? and finally
• I also have a separate account on another Wikipedia project, which has nothing to do with this one whatsoever,and is in a totally different area. Is that ok? Or should I close that down? What is the rule/policy in this regard please? I hope that someone will be kind enough to help out, or to even guide me to some admins who can help me. Thanks very much indeed AsadUK200 (talk) 17:11, 25 September 2014 (UTC)AsadUK200

Reformatted to make it easier to read

Hello, AsadUK200. From your description above, it does not look to me as if you are doing anything wrong. The page Sock puppetry says "Wikipedia editors are generally expected to edit using only one (preferably registered) account. Using a single account maintains editing continuity, improves accountability, and increases community trust, which helps to build long-term stability for the encyclopedia. While there are some valid reasons for maintaining multiple accounts on the project, the improper use of multiple accounts is not allowed." So normally editors use only a single account, but they may use more as long as they are not using the accounts to break Wikipedia's rules (for example, by editing while blocked, or making it look as if there are several editors supporting a position when they are all the same person - that's the primary meaning of 'sock puppet').

I have not previously seen anybody announce on their user page that they edit from the same IP address as other users, but I don't think there is anything wrong with doing so. (When you are logged in, ordinary users cannot see your IP address, so this information would be relevant only to somebody with the 'checkuser' privilege, when they are investigating a claim of sock-puppetry. I presume that the purpose of putting the user boxes on your user page is to forestall that possibility). By the way, one of them, HPT1940, does not appear to be a Wikipedia user despite what the box says on your user page.

There is certainly nothing wrong with having friends outside Wikipedia who also edit; but if it turned out that another editor seemed to have a single purpose account, and only ever posted in order to agree with you, there would be a suspicion that that editor was a meat puppet. But looking at their contributions, I don't think that is case.

So, in summary: don't worry, you're fine. But do read the page on Sock puppetry that I linked to above. --ColinFine (talk) 18:10, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Dear ColinFine, thank you very much for your kind help and detailed and comprehensive reply. I have read the attached link on Sock Puppetry and shall try to keep it in mind and follow its guidance. Yes, you are very right, I wished to let the admins here know I am sharing IPs with other people on a common server here, I dont want to be blamed for some unethical behavior. Regarding the User HPT1940, thats strange, I know he used to use Wikipedia and he had an account too. Like me he is also a retired person and time hangs heavy on our hands. I dont know what happened? He lives in the same building/block as I do so I can ask him when I next see him. Once again, many thanks, and good wishes, AsadUK200 (talk) 01:10, 26 September 2014 (UTC)AsadUK200

Outdated reference links

I am trying to update links on this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_R._Lannon There are two reference links that are outdated that should be removed:

Reference 2. Ruggles, Rick (2010-09-10). "Lannon: CU changed my life". Omaha World-Herald. Retrieved 2010-09-14. Reference 5. Koch, Sam (2010-09-10). "Q&A with Lannon". The Hawk (Saint Joseph's University Newspaper). Retrieved 2010-10-02.

While editing I can only see [reflist] I apologize I cannot figure out how to edit it. I appreciate the help in advance.

Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CreightonUniversity (talk • contribs) 17:28, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Instead of editing the references list, edit the text where the references are used. Wikipedia uses an inline reference syntax, where the text of the reference is written directly into the text of the article, but appears at the end of the page. JIP | Talk 17:33, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

(edit conflict) See Help:Footnotes. Those links are not outdated, but rather no longer accessible through that site. We do not delete dead links, we either do a bit of looking to see if there is an archived version or you can tag it so someone else will fix it. I' am working to clean this up a bit. --  Gadget850 ^talk 17:39, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

I updated the links with archived versions and did a bit of other cleanup. Use the history link at the top to see the changes I made. I also left you a welcome on your talk page. --  Gadget850 ^talk 17:44, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

re: entry about Beith Parish Church

Beith Trinity Church closed on September 28th 2014. the congregations of Beith Trinity and Beith High have united as the only remaining congregation of the Church of Scotland in the Parish of Beith in North Ayrshire, Scotland and is now called: Beith Parish Church

Worshiping in the former Beith High Church[edit]Built in 1807 and extended in 1885. Gothic T-plan kirk dominated by the tall five-stage tower. Stained glass by Gordon Webster. Harrison & Harrison pipe organ 1885. The now Parish Church is a category B listed building.

The Minister for Beith is Rev Roderick I T Macdonald

Beith Trinity Church[edit]Built in 1883, designed by architect Robert Baldie. The chief external feature is a graceful octagonal tower. Interior destroyed by fire 1917, rebuilt 1926. Gothic style, with rectangular nave, Gothic arched chancel and one transept on the east side. Stained glass by John C Hall & Co. Organ 1937 by Hill, Norman & Beard. Trinity Church is a category C listed building.Closed on 28/9/2014 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.132.50.65 (talk) 19:24, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Our encyclopedia content is built upon what we can verify has been published in a reliable source. Do you have any such sources? If so, please take them to the article talk page. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 21:22, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Addressing Wikipedia's old age and conservatism

Once upon a time Wikipedia was new and fresh and exciting. Twice now in two days, on two entirely different topics, I've seen someone on Wikipedia declare that it's all too hard to change something because we've been doing it the one way for so long. I see similar situations elsewhere on Wikipedia from time to time. It saddens me to see Wikipedia reach that stage. It was once the wonderful new thing. Now it's the too hard to change thing. That's sad.

Is there any Wikipedia project or some other activity trying to address this issue of Wikipedia's growing senescence? HiLo48 (talk) 21:40, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Like, sending the site to the Pleasant Acres corner of the Internet, or straight-up euthanasia? Let Encyclopedia Dramatica run wild with all the Google Ranking we've worked so hard to save up? I hope not. The elderly websites can often seem stubborn, but that's usually based on valid secret wisdom.

But yeah, Wikipediocracy is one such "other activity". They've recently featured a complaint about my own personal dementia. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:36, September 25, 2014 (UTC)

September 26

Name of page wrong

is it possible to change mazenod old collegians to mazenod old collegians football club

thanks