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July 13

Self-standing pull-up bar

How can I build a self-standing pull-up bar like this one? --Belchman (talk) 21:36, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Instructtables.com is a good source. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 21:54, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Unbelievably Instructibles does not seem to have an exact tutorial for this. However, they have a lot of tutorials about assembling similar frames out of pipes. You might look at their tutorials pipe beds. APL (talk) 03:13, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Thank you all! --Belchman (talk) 08:56, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

is driving while waring a burqua dangerous?

is driving while waring a burqua dangerous? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.128.102.181 (talk) 22:07, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for linking dangerous. I would assume so, as your peripheral vision would be quite limited and actions like looking over your shoulder to drive in reverse might cause the "viewport" to misalign. But a definitive answer would have to come from someone who has worn one before. 61.189.63.171 (talk) 22:32, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Driving in a burqua is no more dangerous than driving in a ski mask or motorcycle helmet; wearing glasses likely interferes with your peripheral vision more than a head covering. --Ludwigs2 23:25, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

I think the reason the distinction between ski mask or motorcycle helmet and burqa is hinted at by 61.189 - the burqa is made of cloth of some sort, which probably won't stay so nicely aligned with the eyeline as the head is turned as either of those do. 94.168.184.16 (talk) 00:48, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

I bet it's still safer than driving while texting. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:52, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Meanwhile, I'm getting this bizarre mental picture of Fred Waring in Muslim "drag". Oy! ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:58, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

if it becomes an issue, I'm sure some enterprising person will create a "driving burqua" with appropriate modifications, --Ludwigs2 01:22, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Like the burqini? 24.189.88.30 (talk) 01:47, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

more or less, except I think they'd call it a Lamburquini <badum-bump>--Ludwigs2 02:03, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Why would you say that spectacles significantly interfere with peripheral vision? The frame does not take up a significant portion of a person's field of view, and most people's uncorrected vision is still good enough to see oncoming cars. APL (talk) 03:08, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

I wear glasses, and was able to pass my driving test wearing them. However, I am well aware that my peripheral vision is significantly worse than when I wear contact lenses, because not only is my peripheral vision uncorrected, but I also end up ignoring my peripheral vision because I can see so much better through my glasses. Much like someone with one eye much stronger than the other can end up ignoring the vision from the weaker eye. The difference between playing sport (like badminton or netball) in my glasses versus contact lenses is noticable: my peripheral vision is almost non-existant in my glasses, and I react much slower to people and object that are not in front of me. Although I am safe driving in most situations, I do much more active looking around in my glasses to compensate, and there are undoubtedly situations in which I will make a mistake, or react too late, that would not happen wearing contact lenses. I won't see a motorbike approaching from the side until it is quite close, unless I have deliberately looked to the side to check. In this respect, it is very like wearing a burqa. I am sure that responsible, burqa-wearing drivers also compensate by including more active looking around, like I do wearing my glasses. 86.164.57.20 (talk) 13:50, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

It's probably not a big problem, since people who wear burqas are generally not allowed to drive anyway. Adam Bishop (talk) 03:14, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

It is a problem in western nations. Perhaps not a huge problem, but a problem that sometimes attracts media attention because of the touchiness of the subject. APL (talk) 04:34, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

France seems to have got the right idea.--Artjo (talk) 06:14, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

A problem? maybe. A political problem? almost certainly. But a very, very small problem when compared with the amount of individuals who drive too fast, who don't check the condition of their vehicle, who drink and drive or who use a mobile phone whilst driving. 86.4.183.90 (talk) 07:03, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Maybe not dangerous for the driver but definitely dangerous for others on the road.Fragrantforever 08:30, 14 July 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fragrantforever (talk • contribs)

A lot depends on the design, and whether you're wearing the sort of burqa which prohibits even clear forwards vision. In that case, then yes it is dangerous. However, the niqab, or half-face veil shouldn't hamper vision or the ability to turn the head. Let's not get political or xenophobic, eh? BTW glasses are a problem. With them my straight ahead vision is fine but my peripheral vision is terrible, and I can see that causing problems in the future. --TammyMoet (talk) 08:53, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

How bad? Bad enough that you can't see a car? Soft Contacts aren't available in my prescription, so I'm honestly curious here, but I don't have any problem reacting to things that I see 'around' my glasses. I couldn't read that way, but I could spot a car in daylight with little problem. APL (talk) 18:25, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

The problem here is not spotting a car, but estimating speed and distance, given the junction between natural sight and aided sight. I have to turn my head rather than move my eyes if I want to properly estimate how far away and how fast that car is travelling. Given the current state of my rheumatoid arthritis, that may not be an option for me 10 years hence. --TammyMoet (talk) 18:41, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

The usual burqua is a full length gown with no sleeves. It could impede dangerously a driver's arm movements for steering, signalling by indicator switch or hand gesture, horn, window winding, handbrake and gear change. Insects occasionally enter cars and a wasp getting trapped inside the burqua would be ungood for both inside. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 17:52, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Right, and someone is absolutely going to drive wearing a garment that doesn't allow them to hold the wheel. Remember that what many people call a burka is often one of the many other types of clothing worn by muslim women. For example, calling the niqab a burka is quite a common mistake. I'm sure you're well aware of this, but it is important to be very clear about it when someone asks such a question. 86.164.79.167 (talk) 18:55, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

The OP is not more than a million miles from Birmingham, UK. A driver wearing a burkha in Birmingham would attract attention from the police. A recent Crimestoppers[1] item was "Men who carried out three robberies disguised in burkhas are being hunted by detectives." Cuddlyable3 (talk) 21:46, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

In Kuwait, female drivers are barred from wearing the niqab due to security reasons. The regulation came about almost 10 years ago when Kuwaiti security authorities were pursuing sleeper terrorist cells. Authorities feared that the niqab individuals belonging to such cells could use the niqab to pass through checkpoints unnoticed.[2] Cuddlyable3 (talk) 21:46, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

To the OP, the correct spelling is WEARING a burqua. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 21:46, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

The spelling is wearing a burqa? That's hard to picture. I thought spellings were abstract objects, and didn't wear clothes per se. --Trovatore (talk) 07:47, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

July 14

Coke or Pepsi

When I order a cola flavoured drink in the pub, I ask for "a coke". I am often asked by the barperson "We only have Pepsi. Is that OK?" It seems to me such an odd thing to ask, since as far as I can tell they taste identical especially with the large amount of ice and lemon they frequently add to the glass. Has anyone (in a British pub) seriously said "Oh, no it's not OK. I'll have something different"? Astronaut (talk) 04:57, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

The response shows good service training and care for the customer. As someone hailing from the American south, I can beat your blind Coke-Pepsi taste test 10 out of 10 times (and have) and if you told me you only had Pepsi, I WOULD ask for an alternate beverage. In fact, I'm drinking a coke right NOW! 218.25.32.210 (talk) 05:19, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

In America, at least, there's definitely a different taste between the two. In particular, Pepsi tends to be sweeter. Too sweet, actually, which is why I like Coke better. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:28, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

I always order something else if I am told "we only have Pepsi. Is that OK?" I, like 218, can identify the difference 10 out of 10 times. Comet Tuttle (talk) 05:37, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

I can also confirm that in the US, Coke and Pepsi do indeed taste different. Is it possible that the British (the OP used the word first, don't complain to me for using it) version of these beverages uses cane sugar instead of high fructose corn syrup? Maybe that would make them taste similar in your particular location. On a side note, in the American South, "coke" is a generic term for any carbonated beverage and it's not unusual for you to hear the following exchange: "What would you like?", "Just a coke.", "What kind?", "Mountain Dew." Dismas|^(talk) 05:41, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

In Germany, all soft drinks are called "Limonade", and a lemonade would be Zitronenlimonade. Kinda similar. 86.154.105.143 (talk) 10:58, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Lemonade is not a "soft drink"! It's made by squeezing fresh lemons and adding water and sugar to taste. Accept no substitutes! --Trovatore (talk) 17:40, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Unless you also add alcohol to it, it *is* a "soft drink" (as opposed to a hard drink). While "soft drink" is most commonly used to refer to carbonated beverages like Coke/Pepsi/Sprite/7UP, that's not the defining feature. Additionally, 86.154 was referring to the German term "Limonade", not the English term "Lemonade". -- 140.142.20.229 (talk) 23:23, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

And, of course, a link to lemonade is called for. Regional differences in language? Oh my goodness, how shocking. I only take comfort that User:Marco_polo is not here to be disillusioned by an American being intolerant of Commonwealth English (for lack of a better term). Oh! The seamy underbelly of oppression we toil under daily, hidden from the eyes of such people! In case this is unclear, this is sarcasm. Such assumptions that the rest of the world must conform to your own pattern are common on the web, but people less often meet, recognise, and remember when it is their own pattern that is being defended. 86.163.212.254 (talk) 00:23, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

In this case my objection is not mainly linguistic. I did know about the linguistic difference, but it isn't the point.

The point is that genuine lemonade is good, whereas all those other things, 7-UP and Sprite and all the stuff they call "lemonade" in the UK, are bad. I object to the linguistic usage because I object to the drinks themselves, or more specifically with conflating them with something that's actually good. --Trovatore (talk) 18:27, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

I can also tell the difference (also between Sprite and 7UP), but they are not so radically different that I am unable to drink one or the other. But maybe this is because I'm Canadian and we aren't so militant about this sort of thing. I mean, it's not like it's beer (if a pub only had Bud Light I would definitely order something else!). Adam Bishop (talk) 05:42, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

(just finished my Coke) as Bang-qiu Bugs said, Pepsi is quite a bit sweeter. I don't care for it at all. 218.25.32.210 (talk) 05:43, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

The original question seems odd to me - they certainly do taste different in the UK. Ghmyrtle (talk) 06:21, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Having lived all over the U.S., "Coke" versus "Soda" or "Pop" is a regional thing, and there's a map somewhere on the internet mapping the distribution of those phrases.

As for the actual flavors, CocaCola Classic is what we have most widespread in the U.S., and in Europe I don't remember the "classic" designation, and there is a difference between American Coke and European Coke. I remember reading that the whole Pepsi Challenge issue involved Pepsi having a higher sugar content that was good for a sip, but not for a whole 12 ounces. I don't know if that's true, however Coke did quickly switch back to the classic formula after "new" coke was introduced. I don't think it has anything to do with cane sugar versus corn syrup (molecularly sugar is 50% fructose anyway). This book has a very interesting take on the whole CocaCola thing. I definitely prefer the taste of American CocaCola Classic to whatever they have in Europe. Shadowjams (talk) 07:26, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

About "sugar being 50% fructose": Not exactly. Sucrose is formed from fructose and glucose by splitting off a water molecule; it's not the same as a mixture of fructose and glucose. If you reverse the reaction to make a 50% molar mixture of fructose and glucose, that's called invert sugar I think. There's no obvious reason it shouldn't be distinguishable by taste from sucrose. --Trovatore (talk) 08:27, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Whatever the sweetener is, glucose has a very different metabolism than fructose. Shadowjams (talk) 10:16, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

While Pepsi may be generally considered sweeter than Coke, it's interesting to note that Coke actually has more sugar in it, at least here in Canada. A can of Pepsi has 41 g sugar and a can of Coke has 42 g. I imagine it's the flavorings that make Pepsi seem sweeter. 75.157.57.12 (talk) 09:05, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Both taste the same to me - horrible!! Fragrantforever 08:30, 14 July 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fragrantforever (talk • contribs)

I don't think there is a difference from the American and the European coke. The "classic"-appellation in the US was to distinguish it from the New Coke, which was only released in the US. --Saddhiyama (talk) 08:38, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

I disagree from personal experience and taste. Shadowjams (talk) 10:00, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

The UK coke tastes a lot more like Pepsi. I didn't believe this so we brought some UK coke and pepsi bottles to the USA and did a side by side comparison. The UK and USA pepsis tastes the same but the UK and USA cokes were different. I have been told that UK has the "new" Coke, which was unpopular in the USA but increased sales in the UK though I have not found a reference to this -- Q Chris (talk) 10:07, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

That's my experience too. Shadowjams (talk) 10:11, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

I see. I haven't done a blind taste on them myself (in fact I have never tasted the American Coke), I was only basing my assumption on the information provided in the Coca Cola and New Coke articles. It would be nice if someone could find out if there is a difference in recipe between the US and European Coke and add it to the article. Quite relevant information imo. --Saddhiyama (talk) 10:11, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

I guarantee you my personal experience suggests that Coke in the U.K. for a time is vastly different than Coke in the U.S., at least during the time period I'm referring to. Shadowjams (talk) 10:19, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Upon further research it seems that it might have something to do with High fructose corn syrup vs cane sugar. At least according to this. --Saddhiyama (talk) 10:22, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

I thought I was right about that. Thanks, Dismas|^(talk) 10:24, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

According to a blogspot page.......

Are you really proposing that European and North American versions of Coke are identical? Shadowjams (talk) 10:34, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

I am not proposing anything, as I said I have not made a comparison myself. But I am trying to make sense out of the apparent confusion about whether there is a difference in taste regarding the US and European coke. So far the result has been that there is and that there isn't, according to the various Google hits. And not a single reliable source found on the matter as of yet. But it seems that hfcs is used in the US coke where it might very well be cane sugar in the European variant (although the blog doesn't mention anything about Europe, only Thailand), as well as the difference in taste that the local water might add as well. Which I guess would support your claim that there would be a markedly difference in taste after all. --Saddhiyama (talk) 10:44, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

From personal tasting in a small group I would say its more than that, the UK Coke is sweater and tastes more like Pepsi. I used to think they were the same, but my wife (American) complained that the worst thing about living in the UK was that the coke didn't taste right. That's why we took UK coke to the USA when we visited to do a taste - and tasting them side by side it was clear that my wife was right and I was wrong, they were very different! -- Q Chris (talk) 11:09, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

They might taste identical to some after all the ice and lemon has been added, but Pepsi will retain its flavour longer against the diluting agent of a glass half full of frozen water. Vimescarrot (talk) 09:51, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Most people in the U.S. don't add lemon. Shadowjams (talk) 10:11, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

My understanding is that the real issue is one of trademarks, not taste. --173.49.10.26 (talk) 10:58, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

The various Colas (of which Coke and Pepsi are only two) have individual formulas, and there are differences in the taste. I switched from Pepsi to Coke (i.e. Coke Classic) because I was finding Pepsi to be too sweet. Someone said earlier that the "taste test" that Pepsi kept "winning" was due to Pepsi tasting "better" when you're only having a sip, while as you drink more of it, Pepsi's sweetness starts to overwhelm. But some folks like the Pepsi taste better. I don't think it's driven by brand loyalty as such. Oh, and Sprite and 7Up taste differently also. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:20, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

There was some legal action by the manufacturers against retail outlets in the US that served Pepsi when asked for a Coke (or vice versa) that made servers very particular about specifying what they were actually serving. Acroterion _(talk) 14:33, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

It's basic customer service. If someone shows up and asks for specific brand by name, you don't give them some other brand and hope they don't notice!

(And I do agree with everyone else... For those of us who drink an unhealthy amount of soda the taste difference is noticeable. I'm irritated when a waiter brings me a Pepsi without asking. If I'd known it was a Pepsi-only establishment I would have ordered a Mountain Dew.) APL (talk) 14:38, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

You may have seen the TV ad some years back featuring Ray Charles, who was hawking Pepsi, and "unknowingly" was given a Coke instead. He took a sip and said, "Hmm. All right, now, who's the wise guy?" ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:42, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Possibly a bit of a stretch but under the Sale of Goods legislation in the UK goods MUST be "as described". If you ask for a coke you could mean "I want the branded Coca-Cola soft drink" - if the server didn't get your verbal consent to serve Pepsi they could theoretically break the law by serving you something different to your request. Exxolon (talk) 16:48, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

We're talking about two different mixtures that are typically water and high-fructose corn syrup with hints of cola flavor. In the U.S., Coke and Pepsi often grant discounts to restaurant chains in return for exclusivity, which is why in the U.S. you typically can't get Pepsi at McDonald's or Coca-Cola at Taco Bell. At a certain level of abstration, despite the preferences expressed above, they're both colas. So you order Coke, the server says, in effect, we don't have that particular flavor of sugared water but we have a different one; would you like that instead? --- OtherDave (talk) 17:16, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

That's like saying all hamburgers are alike. They may all be the same nutrionally, but they taste different from chain to chain. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:24, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

I'm just surprised that no one has brought up John Belushi's Greek-diner-owner skits in this thread yet. The ref-deskers are being very sober today. Deor (talk) 19:08, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Ah, yes, SNL's version of Billy Goat's. Memories. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:22, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

In the past, at any rate (don't know if they still do this), Coke would send their employees into restaurants and order a "Coke". If they got any other product, they would then report back to their employers, who would take appropriate action with the restaurant. Generally, they'd ask the owner if they'd like to switch from their current cola drink to Coke brand. Everard Proudfoot (talk) 19:46, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

There are people who will say "No" to the question. I know someone who only drinks Diet Coke, and if offered a Diet Pepsi will have another type of drink instead. More importantly, even some people who will begrudgingly accept a Pepsi would be offended if they asked for Coke and received a Pepsi without being warned one was coming. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:14, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Bugs, my comment was not about the inherent virtue of one kind of sugared water over another. I was suggesting to the OP that one reason a server will offer you X when you ask for Y is that the business has a contract under which they only have X. Whichever chain has the platonic egg sandwich, if you're ordering an Egg McMuffin at Burger King, they're likely to offer a substitute for that as well. --- OtherDave (talk) 23:49, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Yes. Your typical restaurant will have a sign and/or menu item making it clear whether they serve Coke or Pepsi products (or whatever). If Coke vs. Pepsi matters to you, then you need to pay attention. If not, then any old cola will do, presumably. (Maybe not Dr. Pepper) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:51, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Oh, yeah, I'm one of those. I detest Diet Pepsi, so if they don't have Diet Coke, I'll go with iced tea. Everard Proudfoot (talk) 18:13, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

I guess it just depends on how much of a connoisseur you are. Someone who rarely drinks soft drink might use the word "coke" to refer to any cola and not care about the difference. Similarly, someone who rarely drinks red wine might not care if they are getting a syrah or a merlot. I'd like to point out that in some regions of the US, the word "coke" refers to and soft drink, even clear or orange ones. —Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 18:36, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Yes, especially in the American south, as noted earlier (Coke was invented in the south). More generally in the US, facial tissue is "Kleenex", a paper copy is a "Xerox", etc. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:45, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Just to chime in on the HFCS/sugar discussion above, which didn't seem to reach a conclusion, the recipe is indeed different for various territories; eg:

• UK – Ingredients: Carbonated water, sugar, colour (caramel E150d), phosphoric acid, flavourings (including caffeine)
• USA – Ingredients: Carbonated water, high-fructose corn syrup, caramel color, phosphoric acid, natural flavors, caffeine

I can assure you that the difference between sugar and HFCS is very noticeable. Local sellers here in the UK often stock imported Coke, and I've tasted both the American and (I believe) Egyptian versions, which both use corn syrup. The taste is vastly inferior to Coke made with proper sugar, and the mouthfeel in particular is unpleasant.

Oh and to answer the OP's question, I find there to be a clear difference in taste between the two major brands and do indeed refuse Pepsi when Coke is unavailable. I am also very disappointed when a seller withholds this information, but I unfortunately suffer from the British affliction which means I'll do nothing about it except grumble quietly while sipping my unwanted Pepsi. AJCham 19:10, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

In North America, Coke produces a sugar version for Jewish Passover. Corn is apparently not kosher for Passover. It excites a lot of soda aficionados and nostalgic types because it supposedly tastes the way Coke did before the switch to corn syrup. Although the Toronto Star says the HFCS version won their taste test.[3] And I also might turn down a Pepsi if I'd asked for Coke, even for water. I'm only going to drink something that unhealthy if I really enjoy it. --JGGardiner (talk) 22:16, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

I will not drink Coke in the US as I find the taste much worse than in Canada. I wonder about that: does the water at the bottling plant contribute? Also9, fountain vs. Bottled seems to make a big difference. I can't stand fountain Coke in the US, but Fountain Pepsi is great. The bottled versions are the exact opposite for me. 72.2.54.34 (talk) 00:23, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Naming convention of British Army equipment

Wikipedia has a page on the equipment used by the British Army. I noticed that many models of the equipment have designations like L...A... What does the letter "L" stand for? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.49.10.26 (talk) 10:43, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Our article SA80#Variants says (without a source) that it stands for "Land Service". That also seems to be the prevailing opinion among random people on the Internet, and the bit of "Encyclopaedia of the Modern British Army" shown in the third search result here seems to confirm it. Deor (talk) 11:45, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

How Many American Tourists Visit The European Union Each Summer

...and visa versa? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.190.51.107 (talk) 16:00, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

This PDF on page 27 says there were 29 million tourist arrivals to Europe from North America, in 2008 (not segmented by the summer or by the USA specifically, unfortunately). Comet Tuttle (talk) 16:59, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

That's a good start. If I can now find how many Americans went to Europe in 2008, I'd be happy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.190.51.107 (talk) 17:08, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

This site looks useful, although its numbers are from 2004. --Tango (talk) 17:12, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

As an aside, how many of the circa 300 million US citizens currently hold a passport? 92.30.102.184 (talk) 23:41, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

The New York Times, in January 2007, reported that "according to the State Department, an estimated 27 percent of Americans currently carry a valid passport." (No specific source given.) So, 80 million or thereabouts now, say. Maybe more, if you count the passport card that gets you into other parts of North America if you're not going by air. --- OtherDave (talk) 02:34, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Meta-question

The Wikipedia article Meta notes that a meta-answer is not a real answer but a reply, such as: "this is not a good question",... The knowledge that I need but I don't yet posess, since I have no Metaknowledge, is whether a meta-question is an ungood question for which there is a good answer, or a good question for which there is no answer, or something else. Please help me understand the term meta-question. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 17:33, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

I have added to the title the words "Renamed to avoid problems with table of contents", for the reason given. This reformatting of the title, as we would with a title that said "question" or "query", retains the original title in brackets, so that Cuddlyable can find their question again using the find function in their browser. If it didn't break the formatting, I would have left it. 86.163.212.254 (talk) 22:44, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

I've slightly altered that - to preserve the original title at the beginning of heading - easier to find/

...I've not read the article, but if the term "meta-question" was used generally around the Internet, it would mean "a question about a question" (much as your meta-answer is "an answer about an answer"). If you were after language specifics and not general use, that answer won't help you, of course. Vimescarrot (talk) 18:12, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Couldn't a metaquestion on the Reference Desk be a question about the reference desk? -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 20:32, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

That's precisely what it means. There is no "could" involved. --Tango (talk) 20:36, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Surely that wouldn't be a "question about a question" though. It's just a question about the reference desk. If someone asked: "are all reference desk questions pointless?" that would be a meta-question. 129.234.53.144 (talk) 19:10, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

OP here. I wonder whether a meta-question is a good question that is not to be asked, such as "Don't ask me what this has to do with toilet paper!" Cuddlyable3 (talk) 19:59, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

What is the best (free) tool to convert .avi to animated Graphics Interchange Format?

Please tell, and from where I can download it ? -- Jon Ascton  (talk) 21:01, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Irfanview will save a movie as a series of bitmap files, which is half the battle. (Options->extract all frames) From there I suggest using GIMP along with this plug-in [4] for optimization. ...In fact I think you can import movies directly into GIMP; here [5] is a (rather old) tutorial. 81.131.22.238 (talk) 21:53, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

See also the "mplayer" (see SMPlayer) examples in Commons:Help talk:Converting video#Converting a Theora OGG video to an animated GIF - just replace the "video.ogv" with the name of your avi file. Another free tool that might work for you (but I find it creates poor quality GIFs) is SUPER video converter. Other resources might be found linked from Commons:Commons:Animated image resources, for example: Wikipedia:Graphic Lab. -84user (talk) 00:09, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

July 15

Re: Ohio man in news for bulldozing his own home

Did Terry Hoskins, the Ohio man in the news earlier in February of this year who bulldozed his home about to be foreclosed on, also tear down his carpet business building like he said he would in stories covering the house bulldozing? 20.137.18.50 (talk) 12:17, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

This story says it was going up for auction in March, and no news of it turned up, so I imagine not. --Sean 17:21, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Not sure if it is relevant to this question, but Marvin Heemeyer is a similar sounding individual. Googlemeister (talk) 18:35, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Overjoyed but cynical..Help

What if somebody you never seen or heard of before you meet knows everything about you like who you are, what you do, married, kids and most importantly, your secrets, what problems you are facing and even what you’re thinking after a brief meditation of 2-3 minutes in a silent room and gives you something to keep in the wallet or best tied in the body and you realize within a week’s I mean 2-4 days things just take a turn as you wanted. I am stunned to see the difference, but as I spoke to a very close friend of mine about it she tells me to refrain such blessings or help as may later cause some paranormal problems , and being highly unscientific(as per her) but since this has done wonders to my personal wellbeing. do I stay away from him or my friend .but here the question I have is “is it some psychic powers he possesses that has made all the difference” but how does he promises to resolve my other issues like he has done to my cousin as all he had to do was to take the photograph of his wife to him and she has mellowed finally kick starting the broken relationship for three years in “a week’s time”. Do you think it would have an adverse effect later for me as I have seek’ed his advice as well and things are like wonders in a handful of days. Please advice. Anyone with such experiences? I hope they do not seek some devil’s help to do it.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.122.36.6 (talk) 13:49, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

The techniques for appearing to psychically know all about a person include:

• Getting them to give away the answers to questions implicitly
• Relying on their willingness to believe
• Guessing, and diverting attention away from the failed guesses

Somebody who has formed a relationship with you in which they have a hold over your mind is called a svengali. It's a fascinating situation to be in. There are no demons involved, but it doesn't seem ideal in terms of rationality. 81.131.66.254 (talk) 14:28, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

See also cold reading. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 14:40, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

And perhaps stalking. Googlemeister (talk) 15:14, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

There are many cases of people using techniques like the ones you describe to take advantage of someone, financially or emotionally. There are no cases of claimed 'psychic ability' working when the 'psychic' is separated from his or her sources of information. If you were a loved one of mine, I'd advise you to separate yourself from this person, who is more likely to be a predator of some kind than someone who intends good things for you. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 15:19, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

What this person has done is given you the belief that things can be different. When you change your beliefs, the world around you changes in response. Take this belief and run with it - but really, I advise you to ditch this person. --TammyMoet (talk) 15:29, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Yes, the person has no paranormal abilities, or the person would have challenged and won the One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge. The cold reading article is indeed the most relevant article about this. Comet Tuttle (talk) 15:42, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

That challenge has fairly stringent entrance requirements. --Sean 17:26, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps, but if you can amply demonstrate them to a few people, then you would think that you could convince the media and an academic or two if you let them set the test requirements. Googlemeister (talk) 18:33, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

A more generic term and deceptively-benign sounding is "social engineering". Assuming that person is not a violent sort (in which case you should run immediately), the red flag is likely to be money. As soon as they indicate they want access to your money in some way or another, that's the time to run away. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:48, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Running deer

Wikipedia has many articles about the gates gaits of horses (trotting, galloping, etc.), and I've noticed that the black-tailed deer in my neighbourhood do many of the same kind of gates gaits. However, when they are running away from something, instead of galloping they do a kind of hopping run where all four feet touch the ground at the same time and their knees stay bent at a relatively fixed angle. What is this kind of movement called? —Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 18:40, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Pronking. Also look at gait (not "gate") --ColinFine (talk) 19:18, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Thank you. A similar question: I also noticed that when rabbits want to casually move a few steps away, they move their back legs together and their front legs together, unlike a cat or dog who only does that when running and moves diagonal pairs of legs when moving casually. Is there a proper name for rabbit walking or is it just "hopping"? —Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 01:16, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

"Bounding", perhaps? ~AH1^(TCU) 01:43, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

How many exam papers in British GCSEs

I'm looking at exam timetables now, and wondering if kids who take the higher tier have to take the foundation tier papers too? How many exams does a GCSE have? I know I could go into school and ask next time I pick the kids up, but I don't want to look completely thick! 81.155.57.75 (talk) 20:51, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Now many exams will depend on the GCSE in question. If its a tiered GCSE you only take one tier, though. If you take the higher tier and don't get at least the lowest grade for that tier (eg. a C if the tier is for A*-C) then you just fail completely (and get a U). --Tango (talk) 21:02, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

You meant "how many", not "now many", right? Vimescarrot (talk) 21:12, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Would you buy it if I claimed I meant "Now, many"? --Tango (talk) 21:13, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Gobfrey Shrdlu strikes again! (-: The timetable I've got here shows three exam papers for each subject, one foundation, one higher and one that isn't either. So would all kids take the third one, plus one of the others? 81.155.57.75 (talk) 21:28, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

I think whether students taking the higher tier also have to take the lower tier depends on the subject and possibly on the board too. The number of exams definitely depends on the subject and board, and particularly on whether there is coursework. Do ask in the school. You won't seem stupid. You'll seem like an engaged parent. Itsmejudith (talk) 21:47, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

If it's tiers, you only take one. Some subjects have extra papers for the very top grades (although I can't remember any GCSEs having that when I did them - SATs papers certainly did), but that's different from tiers. --Tango (talk) 23:00, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Becoming a Mercenary

How does someone become a mercenary? Do you need military experience? Where would a person go to ask to be a mercenary or get training? B-Machine (talk) 21:35, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

You would need military experience. Have you thought about joining the French Foreign Legion? Ante Gotovina, the fugitive Croatian general now on trial for war crimes, started his career as a Legionnaire. Well worth reading about, if only as a cautionary tale! 81.155.57.75 (talk) 21:39, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Modern mercenaries go by the sanitized names like "military contractor" or "security contractor" or "Private military company." However, they are exactly and completely mercenary companies: that is they are private companies that hire out their services for military operations. The most famous (or somewhat infamous) in the U.S. is Blackwater Worldwide, which changes its name from time to time to cover its bad press. It is now known as Xe Systems. Officially, under the rules of the Geneva Convention, mercenaries are not afforded protections that official military personel are. In general, they may not participate in "offensive maneuvers" but may be used for defensive protection, hense the euphemism "security contractor". During the Iraq War, services like Blackwater are used by U.S. government officials in Iraq to guard them as they travel, or at non-military installations; and as guards for convoys and stuff like that. Members of private firms such as these are almost exclusively ex-U.S. military, as they often operate in forward combat areas and need to be familiar with standard military training. --Jayron32 22:55, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps read Soldier of Fortune? My question would be why anyone would want to become a mercenary? Warofdreams talk 09:24, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

I presume the pay is better than someone with that skill-set could get anywhere else - and some people thrive on the danger and excitement...although the excitement of escorting a convoy of trucks across hundreds of miles of boring desert might just maybe wear a bit thin after a while! Of course this is not without risk...but if you are desperate for work, it could be a solution of sorts. SteveBaker (talk) 13:52, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

I heard a story on NPR a while back about guys who had finished their contracts with the military and then went right back to Iraq or wherever with private security firms. They were making much more than they had been with Uncle Sam and were doing similar work as some of the military, e.g. escorting convoys, etc. Dismas|^(talk) 16:56, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

You might take a look at http://www.xecompany.com/ for their career opportunities, but they don't seem to be hiring mercenaries through that website right now. Everard Proudfoot (talk) 19:18, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

To the limited extent that I know about these things (through having a career soldier as a father, who has been offered posts in such organisations), competently run mercenary operations normally only hire people who already have regular forces training and experience. It wouldn't be cost effective for them to provide the basic training - which both filters out hidden physical problems and mental unsuitabilities of previously untried candidates, and is absolutely necessary for the safety of both the recruit and his/her future comrades - that regular government-funded forces provide. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 15:56, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

In fact I think I've read that as a criticism before, when some people say using mercenaries are cheaper others say one of the reasons is because the government already paid to train them Nil Einne (talk) 11:45, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Price variation for same book on Amazon

Was just looking for a book and Amazon and it got me thinking about the price variation in this case here a whopping £58.16 in the difference. So why would somebody skip the first book in the list to scroll down to the same book for more than double the price. And why would the seller not lower their price? Mo ainm~Talk 21:43, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

More interesting is that the last two are being sold by the same seller, have exactly the same description, yet have a £26.01 difference in price. --Tango (talk) 21:47, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Never spotted that, so even worse, they can't possibly be a legitimite buisness venture. Mo ainm~Talk 21:58, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

It might just be a mistake, copypasting the same description into a second listing which is actually different. But certainly contact them before you agree to buy. If I'm right, at least one of these items might well be a different book. 81.155.57.75 (talk) 22:02, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

quartermelon also lists the same item twice. The description for all items is minimal and appears fairly generic so it doesn't really tell you whether there is any potential difference between the items. A search on the quartermelon website [6] only finds the lower price. However it's not that uncommon in my experience outside Amazon for one seller to have multiple versions of the same item, sometimes they the difference may be something like a different warehouse or from a different supplier. Many more sophisticated retailers will only sell the lower price item if they are the same and there's no reason to sell the other one (if for example the warehouse is in a different country then they may still sell that one, similarly if the cheaper supplier is out of stock) and quartermelon appears to have done that for their own website but not for the data they supply to Amazon. It's worth remembering many people who sell thorough the Amazon Marketplace do exist outside there. Also some retailers may be cheaper for some items then others depending on their suppliers, whether it's a core part of their business and a host of other things. Some may also source fairly unique or whatever items. Many may be partially influenced by the price others set, some may even choose not to list on a place like Amazon Marketplace if they don't think they're going to sell any at the price they can sell for but many equally will just list whatever they have or can get if no one buys it from them it's probably not much of a loss (I don't know how Amazon Marketplace works, I presume it's by commission so listing items they're never likely to sell doesn't lose them money but perhaps they do have to pay a small amount per number of items they list however even so it may still be cheapier for them to list all they have then developing more sophisticated software or hiring people to be more picky.) Definitely it's possible that some of the more expensive retailers would be making a loss if they sell it at the lowest price. Ultimately you're right few people who see that listing are likely to buy it from one of the very expensive stores unless they're desperate and no one else has it in stock or whatever so if those retailers can't sell any items for a resonable price compared to other and they have no presence outside the Amazon Marketplace they likely to die. Nil Einne (talk) 22:29, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Days of the week

Say its Monday here, is it Monday everywhere else in the world (neglecting international dateline problems)? I mean do other civilizations have a different sort of naming system for days or even a different number of days in the week, or even no weeks?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by FarTraveller (talk • contribs) 23:35, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Different systems are used, as pointed out in the Week article. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:39, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Each language has their own names for days of the week. In the romance languages, the names often derive from Roman gods whereas in Germanic languages they derive from Norse gods. Hence, Wednesday in English derives from "Odin's Day" while in French the same day is known as "Mercredi" or "Mercury's day". One obvious exception is Saturday, which in English is named after Saturn, the same as the French "Samedi" (also named after Saturn). There have been alternate systems of days of the week altogether, see French_Revolutionary_Calendar#Ten_days_of_the_week for a description of the ten-day week used in France during the years of the revolution. --Jayron32 23:43, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

(ec) Well, different languages have different names for the days of the week. Some have the same origins as the English names (eg. "Monday" is named after the moon and in French, "lundi" is named after the Latin for moon, "luna"), others have different origins (eg. the Hebrew for Monday is "yom sheyni", which simply means "2nd day"). Weeks of seven days are used pretty much everywhere in the modern world, but this article describes some other systems that have been used in the past. --Tango (talk) 23:48, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Tango, while yom rishon does mean "first day," yom sheyni means "day 2" and yom shlishi means "day 3," and so on. DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 03:44, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

From a non-JudeoChristian perspective, days of the week are entirely arbitrary and serve no real purpose other than convenience. Lunar months are tied to reality (lunar phases), while solar months are also arbitrary. The solar and lunar years are not arbitrary -- the lunar year is approximately 354 days long and fits with the weekly calendar so that any particular lunar date in year X falls on that day + 4 in year X+1 (e.g. if Rosh Hashana falls out on a Monday this year, it will be on a Thursday next year) until a leap year occurs. 7-day weeks x52 is nearly 365 days in a solar year. But assuming someone has another sort of religion or no religion at all, there's no reason for them to have a 7 day week unless they wish to integrate with those who do. DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 03:42, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

The Jewish method of naming the days of the week is to link each day with the following Sabbath, namely: the first day of the Sabbath, the second day of the Sabbath, and so on. Simonschaim (talk) 09:14, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Simonschaim -- In Hebrew, "second day" would be yom shniya -- yom sheinu is "day 2", and so on a so forth. And you fail to translate Sabbath properly in your statement. It does not refer to Shabbos but to the week itself. A similar use of the word shabbos (or shabbat) can be seen in RH 3a, on the 9th and 10th line up from the wide lines. DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 16:34, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Slavic languages have a simple pattern for naming the days of the week. Starting with Sunday, they are, roughly translating into English:

• Non-working (day) [except Russian where Sunday is called "Resurrection"]
• After the non-working (day)
• Second (day)
• Middle (day)
• Fourth (day)
• Fifth (day)
• Sabbath

— Kpalion^(talk) 19:34, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it always amazed me that the Bolsheviks didn't ban those weekly reminders of Christianity (Sabbath and Resurrection) by changing the names of those days of the week. They had no qualms about rewriting/airbrushing history in many other respects, and changing the names of many cities to make their eponymous heroes un-persons. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 20:50, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

They tried, Jack, but it didn't catch on. See Soviet calendar. — Kpalion^(talk) 11:03, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Portuguese also numbers the days, except for Sabado and Domingo. Rimush (talk) 21:58, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

See http://www.geonames.de/days.html. -- Wavelength (talk) 23:31, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

To find languages where names of days of the week are derived from names of numbers, compare that page with http://www.geonames.de/digits.html. See Swahili, Hawaiian, and Māori.—Wavelength (talk) 15:48, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

The table here translates יום שני literally as "2nd Day" (rather than "Day 2"); יום שלישי as "3rd Day"; יום רביעי as "4th Day"; etc. Are those translations mistaken? --Магьосник (talk) 05:53, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

DRosenbach - thank you for your comment but I must disagree. The word בשבת in the names of the days of the week DOES MEAN Shabbos. The Ramban in his commentary on the Torah on the verse זכור את יום השבת לקדשו writes that one is obligated to remember Shabbos on EVERY DAY of the week. One fulfils this obligation by saying in the prologue to the "Daily Psalm", היום יום ראשון בשבת and so on.Simonschaim (talk) 04:38, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

In Chinese, Monday is just Day One. DOR (HK) (talk) 10:37, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

July 16

Pokémon Special

Where can I read Pokémon Special online? It used to be on Mangafox, but they removed it a while ago. Mangatoshokan still had it then, but they just removed it today. A quick Google search found sites which had also removed it or which only had the first 7-8 volumes. --138.110.206.102 (talk) 00:32, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Mawashi vs Thong

Is one a development of the other, or do they have seperate origins? Just asking. Chaos N. Mayhem (talk) 02:08, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

According to our thong article, garments for men and women that cover mostly only the pubis have been around. The mawashi is much newer; sumo dates only from about the 16th century CE.

Seeing that the garments have different purposes (one provides modesty, the other a grab handle) and are of different design one weighs 6 to 11 pounds, the other maybe as many grams), it seems likely that the sumo garment is sort of an independent development. PhGustaf (talk) 02:32, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

OK, I'm not a sumo fan by any means, but I just wonder - if one of them manages to lose that loincloth, what then? I'm guessing that bowing to the audience is out, for example. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:12, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

It says in our article that he's disqualified. PhGustaf (talk) 20:04, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

That stands to reason. I just wondered if he puts it back on, dons a robe, or what. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:31, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

universities in stock market

should universities register in stock market? what are advantages and disadvantages? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.118.23.116 (talk) 11:57, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Could you be more specific on what you mean by "register in stock market"? Do you mean should universities own shares in publicly traded companies as an investment, or that the university itself be listed on the stock market such that an investor can go buy 100 shares of Yale, or Harvard? Googlemeister (talk) 13:22, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

I assume we're talking about the latter - the ability for universities to sell shares in their institution. The trouble with that from the universities perspective is that publicly traded companies have a legal obligation to work in order to maximize the expected return for their investors. That is clearly not an acceptable thing for an educational institution. Aside from that, there would be the issue of academic independence - which is much prized amongst universities and wouldn't be given up without a fight. It's not impossible that this might happen - but it's gotta be a last-ditch measure of a failing business model - and that's not the kind of thing that investors are usually interested in funding. SteveBaker (talk) 13:47, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

There are education sector stocks. E.g. Apollo Group (Nasdaq: APOL) owns several universities and other schools; Strayer Education (Nasdaq: STRA) is the corporate face of Strayer University; Career Education Corporation (Nasdaq: CECO) consists of several colleges and universities. 88.112.56.9 (talk) 14:16, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

I assume you're asking for advantages and disadvantages to the institution. An advantage would be a wider source of funding for the university: it could use its listing to raise capital from the financial market instead of just government. A disadvantage is that it would have to change its objectives (from, say, producing high-quailty academics/professionals/research) to maximising shareholder wealth. If it doesn't do this well, the cost of capital would increase (ie shareholders would require a higher return on their investment). If it decides to provide a nice return for shareholders at the expense of its research/graduate quality then fewer people would go study (or do research) there. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 14:44, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Turtles

How come turtles don't eat insects and berries we give them? we see them in our yard and stick them in a bucket, but they never eat? they are box turtles.Diver62 (talk) 17:28, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

The article Box turtle indicates those things might be part of their diet. I would speculate that they have certain ways of finding food, and that looking in buckets is not one of them. Or, maybe they can't get into the bucket. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:43, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

I guess i had incorrect grammar. we put the turtle in the bucket and try to feed it from our hands.Diver62 (talk) 18:12, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Also, some reptiles do not eat very often, so it could be that they are not very hungry right now. Googlemeister (talk) 18:23, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

It may simply be stressed out about being in a bucket. APL (talk) 18:27, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

I think being in captivity makes it not accept the food.Diver62 (talk) 18:31, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Being in a bucket might be scary and make it (literally) pull into its shell and worry more about staying alive than about eating. And as noted, reptiles do not constantly eat like warm-blooded animals do, so it may be operating on its own schedule. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:33, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Sure thing. they do pull into their shells, and one movement and they're in there ten more minutes. that's why i like active frogs much more than passive turtles!Diver62 (talk) 18:41, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Great Barrier Reef

When do you start to see the Great Barrier Reef by Australia? About how many feet? What's in the coral? What organisms have you seen?Diver62 (talk) 17:30, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

The article Great Barrier Reef looks promising. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:42, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Actually, it does not -- I couldn't really find answers to any of the OP's questions. DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 17:55, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

It does say it's visible from space, but it might actually be easier to see far away. As far as "organisms" are concerned... isn't the Reef a known hangout for the Great White Shark? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:08, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

I figure the OP would like to know when one can see the reef coming from Australia, as in how many yards or miles must one travel off the coast before you can see/reach it. DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 19:02, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

yes. some sharks love reefs including the great white shark, and are like police patrolling the reef and eating prey that lives in them. Interesting, Huh?????Diver62 (talk) 18:14, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Is the OP referring to the depth at which the reef is visible while scuba diving? ~AH1^(TCU) 01:29, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Frogs

Cheminterest is my brother and I,Diver62, am his sister. We go frog catching in streams along with our other five members. i've always wondered, can frogs hear you talking to them if you shout in their eardrum? Diver62 (talk) 17:33, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

I would think the answer is "yes". I googled [frog ears] and this detailed explanation about their hearing was one of the first things that came up: [7] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:40, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

I don't have the internet, only wikipedia, etc. so i didn't find it. I'll stop shouting at frogs. thanks for helpDiver62 (talk) 18:16, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

I'm trying to imagine what I would even say to a frog. Maybe "Nice legs!" ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:31, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

That's cool! maybe delicious legs!Diver62 (talk) 18:36, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

A Latin student was invited by his friends to go frog hunting. As the group crept quietly towards the pool where frogs lived, the student shouted "Animadverto anura!". His friends chided him for making such a noise that the frogs were frightened away. He protested "But how was I supposed to know they understood Latin?". Cuddlyable3 (talk) 19:36, 16 July 2010 (UTC) that's funny.Diver62 (talk) 19:58, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

You say you are ChemicalInterest's sister. Horseluv also said she was ChemicalInterest's little sister. Are you the same person? It's seen as a bit rude to pretend to be two different people, rather than telling people when you're using two names. 86.163.212.254 (talk) 21:21, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Couldn't ChemicalInterest have more than one sibling? But I'm not understanding how Diver62 could have Wikipedia but not the internet. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 22:10, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

I assume it's because responsible parties have limited the child's access to the internet. 61.189.63.171 (talk) 22:49, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Oh, it is no doubt possible. Just seems unlikely that they would both appear at the same time, with such similar writing styles, though (as you say) possible. It is also possible that they are the same, young, 'inexperienced' person, who didn't know the community dislikes multiple accounts for a single person without explanation. And there are other possibilities too. The above post seemed the best way of raising the possibilities, and potentially sorting out any misunderstandings that need to be sorted out. 86.163.212.254 (talk) 23:19, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

It's possible that she's at a library, as the computers there are often on Wikipedia but not other websites. ~AH1^(TCU) 01:26, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Horseluv10 and Chemicalinterest declare an IP on their page which appears to be an ordinary DSL connection, I presume Diver62 has the same IP. As 61 has said, parents limiting a child's internet access is hardly uncommon Nil Einne (talk) 14:11, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Has Diver62 ever considered that it is perfectly possible to frolick about outdoors without seriously annoying the local wildlife by placing specimens in buckets or yelling at them? --Saddhiyama (talk) 22:13, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

But ... catching frogs is fun! And they're interesting to observe up close as well. APL (talk) 00:03, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

In my childhood, I was told that holding a frog in your hands could hurt it just from your hands being warm and (I'm guessing) dry, or drying out. Does this have any basis in fact? I mean, obviously, holding it out of water for so long it gets dry is not going to be good for a frog, but could just a few seconds of contact with dry (or dryish) hands hurt a frog, assuming gentle handling? Or did my parents just want to stop me catching frogs? 86.163.212.254 (talk) 00:27, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

A frog is not going to dry out by being in contact with your hands. In fact, since they typically piss as soon as you pick them up, your hands are unlikely to be dry for long. Matt Deres (talk) 01:12, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

And after that, go to the drugstore and get some wart remover, just to plan ahead. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:10, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

I hope you're not seriously suggesting that you can catch warts from a frog? The "warts" on a frog or toad are organs through which they absorb water. Warts in humans are caused by a virus that can be passed from human to human - but which does not cross-species easily. So no - you absolutely cannot catch warts from a frog. Please check before posting crap. SteveBaker (talk) 05:01, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Apparently you didn't see the smiley. So take your own advice, eh? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:25, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

The best jet-fighter

What has been considered the best jet fighter aircraft over time? Have they always been American, or have they sometimes been from Russia or other nations? Thanks 92.29.123.251 (talk) 22:50, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will give you a better answer, but during WW2 the only jet fighter was the Messerschmitt Me 262. It terrified allied pilots because in many ways it was a quantum leap more deadly than the propeller planes everyone else was using. (Even though it had a number of problems.) APL (talk) 23:58, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

"Best" is highly subjective. In jet engineering, every advantage comes with a disadvantage. During the late Cold War, the US and the USSR had very similar capabilities, though their planes were rated for different goals (some were faster, some could make tighter turns, some were cheaper and could be mass produced, etc.). I don't think one could say in general whether the USSR or the USA were necessarily always the "better" one, whatever that means, anyway. They were pretty neck-and-neck. For the most up-to-date planes, see Fifth generation jet fighter. For slightly older ones, see Fourth generation jet fighter, which makes it clear that lots of countries manufacture pretty good jet fighters. --Mr.98 (talk) 00:12, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

I believe the largest jet vs. jet conflict to date was the Korean War, and that article has an entire section on aerial combat that will be of interest: Korean War#Aerial warfare. Unfortunately it appears that the shootdown claims made by the Americans, Chinese, and Soviet Union all vary wildly. Our article calls the two sides evenly matched while it was the North American F-86 Sabre versus the MiG-15. On the other hand, our Aerial warfare article calls North Vietnam, during the Vietnam War, the most heavily-defended-from-air-attack region up to that time. Comet Tuttle (talk) 07:19, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

As said above, best is subjective. If you mean fastest, the Soviet MiG-25 would probably win. If you mean most maneuverable, I would put forward the American F-22 for consideration. Most damage resistant might be the American A-10. Shortest runway requirements probably go to the British Harrier Jump Jet. Best shootdown ratio I believe is the American F-15, which was around 100-0 or so. Really, it all depends on what you are looking for. Googlemeister (talk) 16:50, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Freelance

Thinking freelancing writing right up my ally. This isn't the 1st time that I thought about this, but still unsure on all of this. Even after looking into it in the past.

How do I come about getting paid for my work. Because I really need the money then my current way. My dads pays me for volunteering and work around the house/etc.

Plan on taking on my time on this.

Thank you, in advance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mybodymyself (talk • contribs) 23:09, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

You may want to visit your local bookstore for a magazine on writing. It may have some pretty good pointers. Additionally, and I know that you didn't ask for a critique, but your grammar could use some work. If the above is an example of how you would write for a client, I for one wouldn't want to read it. Dismas|^(talk) 23:15, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Dimiss,

Thanx and yeah I'm aware of my grammar needs work.--Jessica A Bruno 00:27, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Try and get on a creative writing course, so that you can have your work critiqued by your peers. --TammyMoet (talk) 06:51, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Our article Freelancer is pretty poor but may have some useful links. I agree with the suggestions of Dismas and TammyMoet. A hard part about being a freelance writer, by the way, which you may not have considered, is that my impression is that you have to spend 80% or 90% of your time selling, selling, selling yourself to new clients and present clients and trying to get that next gig. Comet Tuttle (talk) 07:10, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Caution: "creative writing" generally deals with fiction genres (stories, poetry); freelance writing jobs, especially for novices, are more likely to be for nonfiction. For any job you intend to tackle, besides its appeal, you ought to consider: are you good at the task, and good enough that someone will pay you to do it rather than others? A prospective employeer (e.g. an agency) will probably ask you to submit a resume of your education and activities (volunteering, areas of interest) showing your background and fund of knowledge, and a portfolio of samples. Consider picking up writing skills as an editor (e.g. rewriting others' work, possibly translations by non-natives) while developing your freelancing (independent writing) alongside this. Remember that a freelancer's pay doesn't include benefits and perqs, and you might consider an inhouse job while you're accruing experience. And keep your word-processing skills current and in top form; consider too that desktop publishing might give you a competitive edge. -- Deborahjay (talk) 15:48, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanx, again for the answers. Really haven't thought about that aspect. Was never satisfied by taking them in the past. Even though I love to write, read, etc along those lines. Still felt it wasn't for me some reason or other. --Jessica A Bruno 16:04, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

While I'm not sure if this fits your definition of Freelance and I haven't tried any of these myself, there are some online websites that will hire people to write for free (but are paid) that you may consider, such as Allvoices. ~AH1^(TCU) 01:18, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Disassemble built-in wardrobe

Hello Wikipedians, this might be a bit of a weird question, but here goes anyway. I just bought a big house, with many extra bedrooms- I thought why not convert one into a musicy-type room. It's 3.6m x 3.6m, but there is a built in wardrobe which is 0.6 deep alongside one of the walls with a mirrored front and sliding doors. Is there any way to disassemble or unbuild this wardrobe?

Thanks in advance, 110.174.151.109 (talk) 23:50, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

If you want an answer from us, you're going to have to at least supply us with a little more information. Like, what is it made of, how is it put together, that kind of thing. And even then, it's not like we're actually there to examine it. Frankly, a good crow bar should take apart just about anything you care to work it over with. Matt Deres (talk) 01:19, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Was it a factory made unit like Ikea furniture, held together with fancy little screw fasteners, or was it stick built in place from lumber and boards and plywood, nailed and glued together? It can certainly be removed, but if the removal involves a reciprocating saw, crowbar and sledgehammer, it will be kindling when it leaves, rather than a unit which can be reassembled somewhere. I expect I, or the average handyman, could demolish and remove such a unit in a couple of hours. Some repairs or patching to walls/floor/ceiling where it stood might be necessary, but maybe not. Basic questions: Is it attached to the walls and ceiling? Can it just be carried out? If some trim pieces next to the ceiling were removed, could it be separated into two or more smaller units which could be carried out? Possibly it was built as subassemblies in a shop and screwed together on site, with molding added to join it to the ceiling and to hide any gaps at the sides. The worst case, from your perspective, would be if the unit were installed before the walls, ceiling and floor were installed. But I once removed a pantry and had to the install a new floor and ceiling, so it is still possible. Edison (talk) 01:24, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

I don't really know anything about it, and all I can say is it's just a normal bedroom wardrobe with a sliding door. It seems to be connected to the floor using screws, and that's all I can see. Thanks for your replies, though. 110.174.151.109 (talk) 03:31, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

If it's a 'built-in' wardrobe - as you say - then you can remove the doors and perhaps the internal shelving - but then you end up with an odd wardrobe-shaped hole in the wall. Anyway, if these are the usual kind of sliding door then you can probably just lift them off the tracks - then remove the tracks by undoing the half dozen screws that hold them to floor/ceiling. If they are hinged then you just unscrew the hinges. This is so easy, it's hard to say anything meaningful beyond "just undo all of the screws". SteveBaker (talk) 04:02, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

One caution is that until it's been removed you don't know the condition of what's behind it. There might be a perfectly good wall that just needs a coat of paint to match the rest of the room, but maybe there's damage or even an incomplete wall. Still, there is only one way to find out. --Anonymous, 07:17 UTC, 2010-07-17.

Don't rule out the possibility of converting the wardrobe into a stereo/TV cabinet. But first maybe watch HGTV for a few days. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:04, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

July 17

Lightsaber?!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Crowd_controlfestival.jpg - What is the Japanese cop on the left holding? Thanks in advance! Rimush (talk) 12:46, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

The picture might have been retouched. It looks like the handle and the "blade" of the "lightsaber" are oriented in slightly different directions. --71.185.179.38 (talk) 13:07, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Fake. Such a brilliant object if real would cast light on the policeman's left trouser leg. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 14:34, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

I don't think it's fake or retouched; if you look at the original source of it, the guy who uploads these photos seems pretty serious on the whole. I suspect it is just some kind of either metal baton or a large plastic traffic baton (for directing traffic), and the light it hitting it funny in the photo. It looks like it is made out of red aluminum to me (Cf. [8]), but it could just be plastic lighted from within (e.g. [9]). --Mr.98 (talk) 14:42, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

If you download it and zoom in, you'll see that 71's comment is on the mark - that the angle of the handle is different from the angle of the "light saber" portion. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:45, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Nah, don't agree Bugs. There is no sign of retouching around the baton and the 'angle' that you talk about is barely perceptible and could be due to the angle of viewing or the angle of the light or even designed construction. Given the uploader's history and the plain ordinariness of the photo I think we should take it in good faith and I agree with Mr 98. Oh, and by the way, if you want to buy one have a look here [10] Caesar's Daddy (talk) 16:23, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

It's more than barely perceptible, as two of us noticed it. Download it and zoom in and you can tell it's about a 5 or 10 degree angle. Seems unlikely they would put a "bend" in a baton, and the examples cited by you and another editor don't show a bend. I'm not necessarily saying it's fake - but we need more information before we can say it's real. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:36, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Either way, it's somewhat incidental to the article in which it's being used.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 16:41, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Here's another photo in that series showing a cop holding a red baton of some kind.[11] The photographer took a ton of photos from that parade, so I would think it's unlikely he would throw a "ringer" in there. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:04, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

I don't think the baton has any bend in it. It just looks like that because you can't see the whole base, his hand is covering it. Again, I see no reason whatsoever to conclude it is fake, and find that a rather improbable conclusion. --Mr.98 (talk) 19:14, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Did you download it and zoom in on it? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:19, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

I did and couldn't see what you were talking about, even after holding a straight-edge up to my screen. APL (talk) 19:52, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

At 8 times zoom, I can't see any evidence of faking (though this might not show up in compressed format), nor can I see any unlikely angle. If you are really worried, ask the uploader (politely) if you may have a copy of the original uncompressed picture. That would settle the matter. Dbfirs 20:16, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

I was about to comment that if the OP gets real desparate, he could simply ask the one who took the photo. I don't think it's fake either, despite the peculiar bend between the handle and the rest of it. I would just like to see the rest of it. My guess is the photographer took no notice of it at the time. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:03, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

The dispute about the angle is because the man's hand is casting shadows on both sides of the handle, which are almost parallel to the red shaft. If you can zoom in closely enough to see past the shadows, you can see that the handle is actually almost vertical, with some sort of rim around the bottom end (similar appearance to the thing you tighten on a garden hose) that is horizontal. Thus there is an angle not just 5–10° but more like 20° between the handle and the shaft.

On the other hand, that still doesn't prove that the photo's a fake -- if the thing is something like a traffic baton, the handle could have deliberately been angled because it was felt to be easier to hold or something, or it could just have gotten bent at some time. As to the absence of light on the trousers, even if the thing is luminous and not just shiny, it's not so bright as to visibly light up the navy blue fabric from a few inches away in daylight.

Now, looking at the image page I see that it was copied from Flickr, and going to that site, I see that it's one of this set of 295 images of the Gion Festival in Kyoto. Looking over the thumbnails, all of the other images look like normal Japanese-festival type things. It's not likely that one faked image would have been slipped in there.

I then did a Google Images search on "Kyoto" and "police". There were many irrelevant hits, but this image, also on Flickr, shows a rear view of a traffic cop holding what seems to be a very similar device, although it is not fully visible. And this page about "Security, Guns and Police in Japan" include two pictures of police holding similar objects, one at the top and one about halfway down.

Conclusion: it is indeed just a traffic baton.

--Anonymous, 06:07 UTC, July 18, 2010.

Oh jeez. Let's apply some actual science to this image analysis!

The baton in the original photo seems to be glowing - the brightest part runs perfectly along the dead center of the baton. That's odd because the light in the general scene is coming from above and to the left and that symmetrical lighting seems all wrong. But it's obviously not glowing because the cop's leg isn't lit up.

I'm pretty sure the reason for that is that the baton is covered with some kind of retroreflective material that's bouncing light from a flash back into the camera. That would perfectly explain the look of the photo and the precise symmetry of the highlight. Retroreflectors are often used to make things visible in car headlights at night. Since we know from the photos that 'Anonymous' pointed us at, this is a traffic cop - that makes a lot of sense.

Tellingly, putting bright lights next to the camera and retro-reflective tape on the light saber is exactly how the light sabers in the first Star Wars movie were actually filmed, so it should come as no surprise that this looks exactly like a light saber!!

As for the supposed 'bend' between the handle and the 'blade' and claims of a 5 to 10 degree 'bend' - there are precisely 11 pixels of length of the handle visible - and only 6 of those are along a visible edge of the handle. Given the nyquist sampling theorem - that means you cannot possibly measure angles to anything like 5 degree precision - and 10 degrees is at best a value judgement based on guessing the center of a fuzzy highlight and not on the edge itself! The best 'meaningful' measurement you can get is accurate to maybe 20 degrees (and even that would require a lot of heavy-duty number-crunching on the actual luminance of the pixels). So all of the previous stuff about people knowing what the angle is - is just 100% premium bullshit. Nobody measured it - they all 'eyeballed' it and guessed.

I believe that the reason it looks a bit bent to the eye is that the handle wouldn't be covered with retro-reflective material. So the brighter highlight you see is being cast by the above-and-to-the-left light source - which will produce a curved highlight that slopes diagonally across the handle. That's a different angle from the retro-reflection cast by the 'blade'. That makes it look bent - but it's really not.

So - this is indeed "a lightsaber" (per StarWars Episode 3), the photo isn't doctored, the blade isn't bent and these are not the droids you are looking for. OK?

SteveBaker (talk) 16:26, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

The handle is definitely at a different angle from the rest of it, or appears so in the photo, and 5 to 10 degrees was just an estimate. Also, the other examples cited appear to be plastic, not metal, so it could be that this is a different type of object. However, it's reasonable to assume that it's not a faked photo, as it's just one of a whole bunch from that parade which the Flickr user posted. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:38, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Did you actually read one single word I wrote? There isn't enough information in the picture to see a 5 to 10 degree bend...and even a 20 degree bend is right on the mathematical limit of what you can actually measure...it's math...it's true...period. There is a perfectly good explanation for the appearance of a bend, it's down to the different lighting on handle and blade. You are utterly, 100% wrong. Now - if you disagree - PROVE IT. SteveBaker (talk) 02:05, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Yes, and I say we're just seeing the same photo differently. I don't own the picture, so I can't upload a blown-up version of it or any version of it. But I agree it's not a fake, I'd just like to know more about that particular object, and so far no one has come up with anything that matches it. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:36, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

It's not a matter of "how we see it"...and you don't have to upload the image to prove it. This is a matter of basic image analysis and high-school math. Just zoom into the image, count the pixels and crunch the numbers. The length of the edge of the handle that's visible on the lefthand side is just about 6 pixels. A variation in slope of 1 pixel in 6 is 9.5 degrees (use the arctan function on your calculator!)...but you can't measure accurate to the nearest pixel - even if the image is in perfect focus because this is a digital sampling of an analog light field and Nyquist's sampling theorem says that you can only measure accurate to TWO pixels in both X and Y directions - which gives you a best-possible-case angle measurement of well over 20 degrees...but you'll only get that if you accurately crunch the numbers with the precise brightness of each pixel - just guesstimating it with a straight-edge won't get you that kind of accuracy. You can see 11 pixels from the end of the handle to the gap between the cops' thumb and index finger - but you can't tell the slope from that because there is no sharp edge to measure. The highlight on the handle is fuzzy...so even though that would theoretically get you a measurement to within 10 degrees - it doesn't give you that in practice because the position of the light source isn't accurately known - and neither is the curvature of the handle or the lambertian coefficient of the material it's made from. So - unless you can clearly measure a MUCH-bigger-than-20-degree bend, you are fooling yourself because there simply isn't enough information content in the image to support a more subtly bent handle. Now, I've done the math on the available pixel luminance data - and the resulting 'bend angle' is much less than the margin of error.

So, there is zero evidence to show a bent handle. None, zip, nada. Given that we know that all of the other 'traffic batons' out there are dead straight, there is no mystery here. There is no mystery-of-the-bent-handle to solve here.

QED SteveBaker (talk) 03:10, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

You're free to think what you want, it doesn't really matter. I trust my own eyes. But can you find that apparently-metalic stick on the web anywhere? So far all anyone has found is plastic, and I wouldn't think plastic would reflect like that. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:13, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

I retract the claim that there clearly appears to be a 20° angle. It still looks like it to me, but I no longer clearly see the rim I spoke of above. Steve is right about the number of pixels visible and I believe I was fooled by an artifact of the way xv's smoothing interacted with the particular size I happened to enlarge the image to. The handle still might be angled, but it's not possible to tell and the other pictures I found suggest it isn't. --Anonymous, 07:53 UTC, July 19, 2010.

We have neglected an important part of the image. That map in the background makes Japan the center of the world. Is that common? --mboverload@ 03:43, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Quite, which tells me you've never traveled internationally very far from your place of birth. China's maps all place China in the center (horizontally, at least) and why shouldn't they? Every country produces maps for their own citizens. The world is round(ish) - there certainly isn't a "center" - is there? You've just uncovered a strong personal cognitive and social bias. The question now becomes - what will you do about it? 218.25.32.210 (talk) 05:16, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Please don't exaggerate about "strong personal bias". The world is symmetrical, but the distribution of populated land masses is not. It makes practical sense for world maps to keep them together by putting the Prime Meridian near the center and splitting the Pacific Ocean at left and right -- for map users in much of the world. Obviously not in Japan, though. --Anon, 07:58 UTC, July 19, 2010.

Well, whether it makes sense or not, it is certainly not consistently done. World maps from the US will almost always show the US in the center. The one on my wall (a Mercator projection) has the 90W meridian in the center. The cut line goes through a lot of water and a lot of deserted Russian steppe land, though admittedly it does also hit some extremely densely populated places near Bangladesh, but only for a short distance. --Trovatore (talk) 08:09, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

I live in the US and have never seen a Mercator projection world map with the US in the center, usually 0deg longitude is in the center. I always was under the impression that this was one of the best ways to split it so that the ends of the map were in the Bering Strait, and very little land throughout that longitude. Googlemeister (talk) 16:41, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

The following links should put this discussion to bed:

• http://www.hisupplier.com/product-117411-Led-Traffic-Baton/
• http://aole.en.alibaba.com/productshowimg/52298515-50196160/Police_baton_warning_light_police_stick_.html

AJCham 05:49, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Excellent. Thank you! ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:00, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Yup; I spoke to AJ asked me about this; I lived in Japan for some years. I can assure you these types of light-wand are reasonably common, for directing traffic and crowds. And BTW the background is 三井住友銀行 which is Sumitomo Mitsui Banking Corporation.  Chzz  ►  07:07, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Money for hiring people

Is it legal in the US that a company receives money to test-drive a candidate?--Mr.K. (talk) 13:11, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Could you be more precise? Where is the company receiving the money from? What does "test-drive" mean in this context? What is the candidate a candidate for? --Tango (talk) 13:26, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Candidate is a job candidate. For example, getting money from a university to hire one of its graduates for a couple of months.--Mr.K. (talk) 13:27, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Don't know about the US, but in the UK there have been a number of Youth Training Schemes under which employers gained advantages provided they took on and/or trained youngsters. See the wiki article Youth Training Scheme.Froggie34 (talk) 13:54, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

In the UK many employers will have a 'probationary' period when you first start - that is to say they will give you the role but review how you are performing after a set period. I presume similar things happen in the US. Here's a link that explains the idea a bit further (http://www.safeworkers.co.uk/ProbationaryPeriod.html). Is that the sort of thing you mean by 'test drive'? ny156uk (talk) 18:06, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

I meant receiving money for hiring, not paying for hiring. A probationary period still implies that the employee is being paid by the company. The money in my question is just flowing in the opposite direction (employee - company). --Mr.K. (talk) 18:43, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

I can't think of any law it would violate. Is there a reason you think it might not be legal? --Tango (talk) 22:56, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Traditionally, this is called an "apprenticeship premium". Itsmejudith (talk) 23:52, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

See apprenticeship. ~AH1^(TCU) 01:06, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

If these employees are real employees and are working, I suppose they should at least receive minimum wages. In the case of internships, however, it is quite common in the US to work for free, which is also a proces for testing potential employees without spending too much money. Some legal restrictions apply in this latter case, however, they are often not enforced.--Quest09 (talk) 17:19, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

As the crow flies

Anyone know any websites that'll tell me the distance between two geographical points? Vimescarrot (talk) 18:58, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

The article As the crow flies has a couple of links that might be useful. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:09, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Google Earth is pretty good for this sort of thing. --Mr.98 (talk) 19:11, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Wolfram Alpha appears to do it (example: [12]) but I don't trust Wolfram Alpha. (I had to tell it I didn't want it to understand New York as a "financial entity" ... it has some pretty crazy default ideas.) 213.122.61.160 (talk) 19:13, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Excellent - http://www.acscdg.com/ from the as the crow flies article seems to be what I'm after. Thanks for that. Vimescarrot (talk) 19:18, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Gather energy - true or false?

Does gathering energy from people's bodies by stacking your hands over their head make it easier to lift them up?

I watched the show Explorers of the Human Body (an educational show) and was kept confused by this question, brought up at the end of episode 4. You may watch this part of the show with the illustration here (from 6:00 to 8:00) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCwY6rifOwE

Were they only acting to confuse viewers or is it really true? This show often contains things that sound incredible at first but are proven right scientifically. But this one is too strange, so I wonder. 117.4.128.112 (talk) 19:25, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

There's no such thing as "gathering energy" that way. There could be a psychological impact, i.e. they might try harder to lift him the next time. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:39, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

This is similar to a pretty common trick for selling suckers bogus "strength enhancing" bracelets or other such charms. Hand someone something that looks easy to lift, but isn't. (For example, a paper bag ... with a brick in it.) The first time they reach for it they are surprised by the weight of the thing, and have some difficulty. It's important here that you stop them from trying to lift it after a second or so and don't let them make a second attempt. They are left with a sense of how surprisingly heavy the object is. Now you give them the bracelet, have them drink the energy drink, or have them go through some silly exercise and have them try again. This time they have in their mind that the object is really heavy (after all, they couldn't lift it.), so they lift it with all their strength, and low and behold, they lift it easily. Like picking up an empty milk-jug.

This video shows a similar trick. The object they're lifting is not surprisingly heavy, but they're being obliged to lift it in an uncomfortable way. Add to that the fact that the liftee may cooperate (subconsciously even) by sitting more rigidly when they're expected to be able to pick him up. APL (talk) 20:07, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

I can't watch the video, but this sounds like "how to levitate" [13] (rightmost panel), which is a proprioception trick. Then I found [14], which gives the impression that you actually will be able to lift the person. Perhaps this works too as APL says, and has evolved from the previous trick. 213.122.61.160 (talk) 20:12, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Maybe this is related to laying on of hands? ~AH1^(TCU) 01:00, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

The people in the video are absolutely lifting the person. But this shouldn't be surprising on its own. Four average people should have no problem lifting a fifth average person. APL (talk) 04:38, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Absolutely. We used to have a variation of this at school where six people each using only one forefinger would lift a prone subject. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 14:17, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

This is not just four people lifting one person, it is about lifting with "fingers" only. I just found out several videos on youtube that call this "levitation trick", like this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xme5SPvETkE

It seems a very popular trick/game but the explanation for it is never clear.117.4.150.220 (talk) 17:03, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

I don't think there's any great mystery. Our article Light as a feather, stiff as a board is rather poor, but the talk page has some anecdotal research and as APL says, four people lifting a fifth person is not exactly amazing. Remember the arms are doing the lifting not the fingers. Actually I seem to remember we may have discussed this before. Nil Einne (talk) 23:20, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Characters

http://www.quazacolt.com/

Can someone tell me the characters on this website's banner please?

http://www.quazacolt.com/dmmlq/tenshisomeone.jpg

Also, who are the two characters here? 64.75.158.200 (talk) 22:46, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

In the banner, the guy with the blue eyes and sword is the Lich King- see World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King for another picture. I don't know the others. Staecker (talk) 11:41, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

The two girls on the left in the banner are Lala and Haruna from To Love-Ru, I also don't recognize any of the others -- Ferkelparade π 13:39, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

July 18

Bid, ask and price (stocks)

Can someone explain to me what it means when a stock has a bid price, an ask price and how that relates to the last price? For example, I am looking at a stock right now that has a bid price of $4.01, an ask price of $4.99 and a last price of $4.85. I assume that the 4.85 means that at the moment to market closed in Friday the stock was selling for $4.85. Am I right? If so, how do they determine the "ask" price and what does that mean (whose asking?) and the bid price (who's bidding at the lower price?)--162.83.139.249 (talk) 03:02, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Okay I've answered some of my own questions. Let me restate my question. If I place a one day limit order at $20 And the ask price is $22 and the bid price is $18, is that impossible to fill? Do I have to start at the ask price, or can i hope that during the day the "spread" will change and my lower limit price might be filled?--162.83.139.249 (talk) 03:13, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Your limit order (I assume from context it is a purchase limit order) will be executed if the ask price falls to $20 or below during the day. The spread will not necessarily change - the bid price could move as well, so the stock might fall from 18-22 to 16-20 - lower price, same spread. If the ask price remains above $20 throughout the day, then your limit order will expire at the end of the day (because it is only a day order). In principle, you can place a limit order at any price you like, but in practice there is no point placing it above the current ask price, because it would be executed immediately, so you might as well just place a market order. There might be some point to placing a limit order at the current ask price if the stock's price moves quickly, you want to protect yourself against a price rise between when you place your order and when it is executed, and you would rather not get the stock at all than pay above the current quoted price. Gandalf61 (talk) 09:31, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Types of social housing in the UK

Just wondering what the differences are in practice (in the UK) between being a council house tenant and receiving housing benefit to rent a privately owned home? Why are tenants reluctant to move from the former to the latter? 188.221.54.24 (talk) 08:34, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Well the first thing to mention is that council housing is a lot harder to come by than a private situation, since demand way outstrips supply and there is always a long waiting list for suitable council properties. So that's one aspect to bear in mind. --Viennese Waltz ^talk 09:00, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Council house rents tend to be at the lower end of the range for a given area and standard. Councils also offer better security of tenure, and some are more willing to undertake repairs and modernisations than the average private landlord. There are exceptions, of course, and some private landlords fulfil their obligations to a higher standard than councils, but many others do not. Dbfirs 09:41, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Council houses were built to a very high standard as set out by the Parker Morris Committee. The rooms tend to be bigger for comparable houses built at the same time. --TammyMoet (talk) 10:08, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Rent for council housing and social housing is always paid in full if there is entitlement to full housing benefit. If the rent for privately rented housing is above the local rent median, then housing benefit is only paid up to that amount. In other words, it's quite common for tenants to receive less than the full rent in privately rented accommodation. Also, councils and other registered social landlords are more-or-less guaranteed to be good landlords, which is not always the case with private landlords. Finally, council and social housing tenure is often for the life of the tenant (and can sometimes be inherited) so giving this up may not be wise. --Phil Holmes (talk) 11:14, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

The other advantage to the council tenant is that even if you don't pay your rent for years and years, you still do not get thrown out. The disadvantages are that you tend to have belligerant or even downright mentally ill neighbours, and your surroundings are often squalid. 92.24.178.184 (talk) 11:43, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

The larger size Tammy mentions also extends to land, giving many council houses a reasonably generous private garden that a privately rented flat or new-build housing association maisonette will not have. There's also the community element. Because of the security of tenure and the fact that council houses were built in estates, or at least clusters, you find some people who remain in one council house for decades with the same neighbours. Grown-up children may also be allocated properties nearby, (although reduced supply and increasing demand makes this less easy than it was) or they may be able to succeed to their parents' tenancy if they remain living in the family home and satisfy certain conditions, giving an "inheritance" of a sort. Karenjc 11:47, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

A factor not so far mentioned is that (to the best of my knowledge) you can remain a Council House tenant regardless of your/your household's income from employment (so you could advance to a comfortable salary, or have have a household with several jobs between them, while still enjoying the benefits of low rent, etc), whereas (to my certain knowledge) you can only receive Housing Benefit if you have a low-to-zero working income (so that if you obtain a job or improve your working income, you'll lose some or all of your Housing Benefit. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 14:07, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

You sometimes find that private landlords are poor at responding to repair requests and things like that - where the council have workers employed just to do that kind of thing - it's not always like that - but it's something to consider. My wife and I bought an ex-council house when we were just married. It was really cheap and the room size, standard of construction, quality of materials and standard of upkeep were miles ahead of much higher priced houses that had been privately built. The downside is that large council house 'estates' are filled with poorer families - with higher unemployment - and (sadly) the crime and vandalism rates in those areas are typically higher than in neighborhoods where the majority of housing is 'owner-occupied' and only a small fraction are rented. However, it's important to say that this is a generalization that's not always true. There are a few really nice neighborhoods where all of the houses are council-owned. SteveBaker (talk) 15:59, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

The rents for council housing are typically less than privately rented houses. This could have an impact should you land a poorly paid job and lose your housing benefit. Astronaut (talk) 15:03, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

[[Category:]] new brand in fashion

Hi There, I want to setup a new brand in fashion clothing in India mainly by importing the finished product from taiwan, bangladesh, vietnam etc like all the major brands in the UK do.For example Next, TK max, Bench etc does. please kindly give any suggestions by the contacts you have.

With Regards Ravi k

This is a reference desk. We find references for people. We don't have contacts in the fashion business. --Tango (talk) 14:12, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

I tried typing "Clothing manufacturers in Taiwan" into Google and got a ton of good search results - I suggest simply doing that for all of the countries you are interested in. The website http://www.alibaba.com seemed to be one common 'portal' site - you can select 'Apparel' and look at individual countries and clothing types and get lists of hundreds of manufacturers. For example, http://www.alibaba.com/countrysearch/TW/Taiwan/category/3/Apparel.html 250 links to specific clothing types and cloth-related products (zippers, buttons, lace, etc) - each of which links to dozens of clothing manufacturers in Taiwan. I'd be surprised if you couldn't find what you need there. SteveBaker (talk) 15:41, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

retention of rank/stripes in military band setting

I am a former pipe major in a volunteer band, I resigned/retired from this position to move to another community, I have subsequently returned and rejoined this same band, am I still entitled to wear these stripes? in other words once I had earned them are they mine to keep or are they forfeited when I left?JamesRWarriner (talk) 19:44, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

I would think that those decisions would be up to the leadership of the organization. Maybe your group has some sort of bylaws that they go by which would give you an answer. Dismas|^(talk) 23:44, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

July 19

Software to generate images from text

Hi there, what software can I use to generate an image from text, like this? http://www.webdesign.org/img_articles/11310/finalsmall.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.15.182.132 (talk) 06:04, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Microsoft Paint does that. Indeed, any graphics editing software has that capability. --Jayron32 06:14, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

But is there any software that can be used that allows instant creation of an image through text without physically having to type out those words? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.15.182.132 (talk) 07:16, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

On most computers, you can press the Print screen key, and then 'paste' into a graphics program (Microsoft Paint will do). See Wikihow, How to take a screenshot in Microsoft Windows.  Chzz  ►  07:34, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Can you clarify exactly what you want? It is really unclear to me. --Mr.98 (talk) 12:06, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia article on ASCII art has a section on image-to-text conversion. The aalib library may be what you're looking for. --173.49.11.154 (talk) 12:08, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

That is not helpful because the OP is not asking how to make a crude ASCII-art image. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 13:48, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Pretty much any image software is capable of adding text to an image. I don't think it is possible to avoid typing out the words unless you cut and paste them from another source or use voice input (available on some operating systems or by buying some external software). To be honest though, unless you are writing huge amounts of text, you will spend much longer fiddling with the appearence of the text (font, stroke width, colour) and how it looks on the background. Astronaut (talk) 14:57, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Being economical with electricity

Electricty costs approximately 25 euro cents/KWh. Heating is done by gas and electricity is used for other purposes. For cooking, 2 electric plates are fixed in the kitchen area. They are not induction plates and they are of 2 different sizes. I almost always use the smaller one, and turn it off several minutes before cooking is actually complete. If possible, i also do not use its maximum heat setting. Electric plates have a rating of 2500 watt and I assume i use 40% of that totalling about 4 hours per month. Does it cost me 1 euro a month or iam caluating it wrong?.

I assume refrigrator does not run all the time and it starts only when its thermostat detects it is not cold. I usually run it at lowest power.I dont worry about other things such as laptop and small speakers as they consume negligible power. If you could suggest ways to reduce electrity consumtion that would be nice.

Iam not sure if I can read a meter correctly and please correct me if am wrong. In this picture, does it read 6.3 kw?http://img.tomshardware.com/us/2007/05/30/the_power_saving_guide/electric-meter.jpg . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.99.136.3 (talk) 09:53, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Your calculation in the first paragraph is correct (except that I would have estimated 60%). You meter reads the number of KWh used. It shows that a total of 638.6 KWh (@25 cents each) have been used since it was set to zero (not necessarily since it was installed or since you moved in). To estimate the rate at which you are using electricity, you need to count how many rotations the wheel makes in a minute, multiply by 60 to get the number per hour, then divide by the number partially shown but not clear in the bottom right of the meter. That will give you the usage rate in kw during that minute. Dbfirs 11:49, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Don't just set the thermostat of your refrigerator for minimum cooling; make sure that the temperature is low enough to prevent food spoilage. If you want to reduce your refrigerator's energy usage, keep it well maintained (Are the door seals worn? Is it low on refrigerant? If it has an exposed radiator, is it covered with dust?) , do not open the door for too long and unnecessarily, and do not put hot items in it—allow some time for the items to cool off first. If your refrigerator is old and wastes a lot of electricity, consider replacing it with a more efficient model. --173.49.11.154 (talk) 12:24, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Postcard from France within EU, to USA, Canada, Australia

I am unable to get to a post office and need to know how much it costs to post a card from France to various international destinations. I have just spent far too much time on the La Poste website, which offers to sell me lots of different beautiful stamps, but I cannot see where it tells me how far 0,57 centimes (etc.) will get me. Can anyone help? BrainyBabe (talk) 12:15, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

The tariffs are listed in the top file linked from [15]. As it explains, "Zone 1" is the EU, Switzerland and a few microstates, while "Zone 2" is the rest of the world. Warofdreams talk 13:10, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Thank you! I just couldn't see it. It still doesn't actually say "carte postale", but it can't be more than the cheapest letter rate. BrainyBabe (talk) 13:40, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

I'm not so sure that is true. The footnotes for the "Lettre Eco" box on the first page say: "(1) Zone Outre-mer 1 : Guyane, Guadeloupe, Martinique, La Réunion, Saint Pierre et Miquelon, Saint Barthélemy, Saint-Martin et Mayotte. (2) Zone Outre-mer 2 : Nouvelle-Calédonie, Polynésie française, Wallis-et-Futuna, Terres australes et antarctiques françaises, Clipperton." ie. French territories only. The USA, Australia etc, are covered on page 2 in the "Lettre Eco Internationale" box. There it says 1.60 € for EU and Switzerland, and 1.75 € fo Rest of the World. Astronaut (talk) 14:45, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

How does that disagree with anything above? The "Zone Outre-mer" divisions are quite separate to the "Zone 1" and "Zone 2" for mail to other countries. Warofdreams talk 15:26, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

IMPORTANT to note that La Poste treat cards as second class whatever the stamp. Put each card in an envelope if you want it to arrive sometime this decade.Froggie34 (talk) 16:41, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

What is the big deal with me marrying a black man?

I am a white, Christian, divorced, mother of three. I have never dated out of my race.... until now. I have always dated white men, not because I limited myself, but because I find their features most attractive. Of course there have been many black men that have caught my eye but I was always in a relationship and/or maybe too worried what people would think to act on anything. I know it's sad but I am in the South and believe it or not, a lot of interracial couples are treated poorly here. Anyway, my fiance (a black man) and I went to high school together and after nearly 10 years of being out of school found each other and fell in love. DEEPLY IN LOVE! He is everything I have ever wanted and everything my parents have ever wanted for me! He is a God fearing Christian who will not sleep with me before marriage, he is a hard worker and will do anything to provide for us, he has a father's heart and treats my children as his own, he is a MAN! PERIOD! I finally found my prince and all I've gotten is grief! My friends who acted like they weren't ignorant and racist have completely done a 180. They try to make me out to be a bad mother because I'm marrying someone of darker pigment! He is the best father figure I could ask for. I couldn't have custom made a better dad! People who I thought loved me, have looked in my face and called me a ni**er lover! SERIOUSLY?! Even people who call themselves Christians have turned their backs on us knowing the Bible says that we're all made in God's image. I have noticed a change in my black and white friends and the black and white general public alike, and the previously mentioned applies to both races (except the racial slurs). Black people have definitely been more slick about not like our relationship, unlike the white people who have been more outspoken and vicious. Does anyone know of a way that I can talk to these people and help open their minds and remove their clouded, ignorant beliefs? The only thing I ever seem to say is that I love him and he is right for me before getting irate with peoples ignorance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bmsglc (talk • contribs) 12:54, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia volunteers cannot solve problems of love or prejudice. If someone calls you NIGGER LOVER to your face, can you smile back and say Yes I love my african american husband? (I assume that you live in South USA, that you will hear people using the word nigger perjoratively, that it doesn't help to hide it as "ni**er", and that african american is a term that your husband is comfortable with). Look around for some new friends. You clearly think about your own children now but you must also consider how they too will encounter prejudice in school etc. as they grow up. Finally if there is any chance of you having children with your new husband, know that you carry a heavy responsibility for consequences that will go on long after today's passion has faded away. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 13:38, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

You say you are both Christians. Would one way forward be to find a church that is happy for you as a couple? Through them you may find new friends. The first resource I found was Christians against racism. you might try asking them for suppport, online or in person. (To head off any further discussion: yes, bad things, including racism, can be done in the name of religions, Christianity and others. But some religious institutions are working against the same bad things.) BrainyBabe (talk) 13:46, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

(ec)You may find our article on miscegenation interesting. Or horrifying. Matt Deres (talk) 13:50, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

The thing is that while you don't mind, he doesn't mind, I certainly don't mind and a great many unprejudiced people don't mind - you have to accept that there are people who find this kind of thing deeply offensive - for whatever crazy reason. You and I would consider that attitude to be unfortunate, undesirable, distasteful, wrong...but it is undeniably true that some people feel that way - and the world is only changing very slowly in the 'right' direction. The degree to which this matters depends greatly on where in the world you live - and in what stratum of society - and what your friends and relations feel about it. By doing this, you are pretty much certain to run into some kind of difficulties in your future lives - and it's ridiculous to pretend that you won't. Whether those difficulties are sufficient to deter you from doing it (I hope not!) - or whether it turns out to be such a problem that you ultimately have to give it up (I REALLY hope not!) - or whether adversity makes the bond between you stronger (we can hope!) - is impossible for us here at the Ref Desk to say. That's your judgement call. SteveBaker (talk) 15:17, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

This would not be an issue in the UK where there are lots of these relationships and lots of children as a result. Nobody thinks it unusual. 92.15.4.196 (talk) 18:32, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Internet archive

I went to the page http://www.geocities.com/soulofaitwo/CDdrama.html, but got an error. As you would expect, I went to http://archive.org and tried to retrieve the archive of that page; however, I got a data retrieval error. How else can I access this page? --138.110.206.101 (talk) 15:24, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

It worked for me. Archive.org can be a little temperamental at times, so it's worth trying again a while later to see if you can access it. If you still can't, I saved the page for you and uploaded it to mediafire 1230049-0012394-C (talk) 15:41, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

IT should be pointed out that Geocities is over, which would explain the error. Aaronite (talk) 16:57, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

a website for photographers

Is there a website or web forum where I can post a photo I took so that people will evaluate it critically and suggest improvements and give technical advice?--117.207.145.243 (talk) 18:05, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

This group is for all amateur photographers looking to improve their work. Members are encouraged to give truthful and constructive feedback on photos submitted by other members. This is a critique group, so please post 1 photo and then give feedback to 2 images behind yours in the group pool. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 18:24, 19 July 2010 (UTC)