User talk:DynamoDegsy

Welcome!

Hello, DynamoDegsy, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome! --Anna Lincoln (talk) 14:16, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

October 2008

Welcome to Wikipedia. The recent edit you made to History of the Great Britain national rugby league team has been reverted, as it appears to be unconstructive. Use the sandbox for testing; if you believe the edit was constructive, ensure that you provide an informative edit summary. You may also wish to read the introduction to editing. Thank you. Flewis^(talk) 11:03, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Derek Turner (journalist)

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England statistics

Could I ask you to place the England stats below the players club profile. Just keeps it inline with the MOS and brings a little uniformity to the articles. Cheers.Londo06 15:01, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Notability of Andrew Wilson (rugby league)

A tag has been placed on Andrew Wilson (rugby league) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done because the article, which appears to be about a real person, organization (band, club, company, etc.), or web content, does not indicate how or why the subject is notable: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not indicate the subject's importance or significance may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable. If this is the first page that you have created, then you should read the guide to writing your first article.

If you think that you can assert the notability of the subject, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the article (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the article's talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would confirm the subject's notability under Wikipedia guidelines.

For guidelines on specific types of articles, you may want to check out our criteria for biographies, for web sites, for bands, or for companies. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. ITasteLikePaint (talk) 23:02, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Hull Kingston Rovers

I know you have been editing the above article for some time now - thanks. I have been clearing out my attic recently - yes, I must get out more - and came across the following publication: It is jam-packed full of facts and figures in 160 pages from the club's birth to 1983. Although it is clearly now over 25 years out of date, the historical stuff up to 1983 should be basically sound - a real gold mine. Probably the most important thing is that it is a reliable, citable source, which as you know, the present Wiki article is largely missing (mainly because decent sources are so hard to find). For example, page 62 states - "Derek Turner was transferred to Oldham for £2,500 in the 1955/56 season, but despite this a loss of £208 was made on a year when Rovers finished 24th out of 30" And so it goes on... and on. Excited ?!?

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 15:14, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Can you explain to me the rationale behind the international caps listing within this article ? It might just be me, but I find it hard to follow - maybe others would do also. 'My book' might be able to fill in some of the uncertainties and gaps; if I could better understand the formatting rationale. Many thanks,

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 00:37, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

This is the first time I've used 'Talk', so please excuse me if I make a mess of it.

I see that we're both Derek's, being from Wakefield and born in 1964, I was "sort of" named after Derek 'Rocky' Turner. As there wasn't an article for Derek 'Rocky' Turner, so I thought I'd break my duck and create my first article. Whilst researching Derek 'Rocky' Turner it became apparent that it seems that nothing happened in Rugby League if it happened before the start of 'Super League', and very few club's websites have statistics of famous past players, let alone biographies, so citable sources are always welcome, and bearing in mind many of these players were part-time and unlike some modern association/rugby footballers, they didn't earn enough money to retire directly after playing, and often retired as a result of injury, I decided I would to attempt to restore the recognition that these Notable Players rightly deserve.

I thought rather than creating a club's Notable Players on an ad-hoc basis, it'd be useful to identify Notable Players using a consistent criteria, i.e. whilst at that club: players who won the Championship or Challenge Cup (I may eventually expand that to include County Championship and County Cup); players holding club match/season records, i.e. appearance, tries, goals, points; players who had testimonial matches; players who gained international honours (I may eventually expand that to include County honours).

So I set about creating 'Players Earning International Caps Whilst At...' sections for the 42-clubs that have had England Internationals (also including their Great Britain statistics if relevant).

The basic form is...

Forename Surname | Player's Nation: Whilst At Club Year Opposition Nation, Opposition Nation; Year Opposition Nation, Opposition Nation

As rugby league players often play for more than one country, e.g. both Great Britain, and England or Wales, this can become...

Forename Surname | Player's Nation #1: Whilst At Club Year Opposition Nation, Opposition Nation; Year Opposition Nation, Opposition Nation | Player's Nation #2: Whilst At Club Year Opposition Nation, Opposition Nation; Year Opposition Nation, Opposition Nation

As rugby league players often play for their country whilst moving from club -to- club, this can become... Forename Surname | Player's Nation: Whilst At Club #1 Year Opposition Nation, Opposition Nation; Year Opposition Nation, Opposition Nation; Whilst At Club #2 Year Opposition Nation, Opposition Nation; Year Opposition Nation, Opposition Nation

As rugby league players often play for more than one country whilst moving from club -to- club, this can become... Forename Surname | Player's Nation #1: Whilst At Club #1 Year Opposition Nation, Opposition Nation; Year Opposition Nation, Opposition Nation; Whilst At Club #2 Year Opposition Nation, Opposition Nation; Year Opposition Nation, Opposition Nation | Player's Nation #2: Whilst At Club #1 Year Opposition Nation, Opposition Nation; Year Opposition Nation, Opposition Nation; Whilst At Club #2 Year Opposition Nation, Opposition Nation; Year Opposition Nation, Opposition Nation

If known, and as an Aide-mémoire, I've added the year the player's Testimonial Match took place and/or the player's position after his name, e.g. Roger Millward (Testimonial match 1977) (#6) | etc. Whilst not absolutely necessary for someone as notable as Roger Millward, I feel it's helpful for less notable players for whom an article has yet to be written.

DynamoDegsy (talk) 11:12, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Well done on your ongoing work on this article. Just a thought, and I have not got a reference (as yet), but I believe Frank Foster gained GB honours whilst at Hull KR. If so, he needs moving up a section. As an aside, he was the roughest, toughest man I have ever seen on the rugby pitch (and I've seen many) - worth 5 points start every game. Decent player too. Best wishes,

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 14:36, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Me again. I have been doing a little research in the last five minutes on Laurie Osborne. His surname appears as both Osborne, and Osbourne, in equal measure in the little book I mentioned above?! My separate Google search definitely favours Osborne. He seems to have played between 1920 and 1931, as far as I can ascertain. In the present Hull K.R. article his name is listed under both 'Players earning international ...' and 'Other notable players' - surely it is one or the other. My book mentions him being selected for Yorkshire three years in succession, but not for England duties - although that might just be an omission. He did play for Yorkshire against New Zealand in December 1926 - see here [1]. Does this help ? Regards,

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 19:23, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

I had a similar issue with surname spelling with Drew Turnbull/Turnball. I obtained the Laurie Osborne statistics from englandrl. Best Wishes. DynamoDegsy (talk) 20:46, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Rugby league player pages

Hi

The infoboxes for RL players on the pages you have been creating all give their date and place of birth as 1900, Town. All their heights and weights are the same. Do you have the information? If not it would be best to leave it completely blank. pablo_hablo. 20:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Here's an example: Gary Shepherd.

• Born 1 January 1900(1900-01-01), Town, Great Britain
• Height 6 feet 0 inches (1.83 metres)
• Weight 13 stone 7 pounds (85.73 kilogrammes / 189 pounds)

Does it not seem to you to be meaningless to include this bogus information in every biography? The women of Town were bloody busy in 1900 turning out all these 6 foot rugby players who all weigh the same. pablo_hablo. 22:21, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

New Zealand Clubs

Hey, It is my understanding that only first grade clubs are meant to be in a rugby league players infobox. WP:RL has established this to mean Super League and NRL. So I think your edits on Iva Ropati should be changed back. On the other hand, good idea adding the cats - maybe one day I'll get around to going through all Auckland players and adding clubs. Mattlore (talk) 19:53, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Category moves

I noticed that you have moved several rugby categories such as Category:Widnes Vikings players to other names. It is usual practice to propose such moves at WP:CfD, if there is consensus for the move the category can be moved automatically. Changing them in the manner that you have been doing destroys the page history, could you seek consensus at CfD before you carry out any more page moves? King of the North East 23:45, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

I've still not the hang of this User talk, but here goes... There were about 40-50 players in Category:Widnes Vikings players and 40-50 players in Category:Widnes Vikings rugby league players. As the majority of teams in Category:Rugby league players by club have the suffix rugby league players, I thought it best to move 'Widnes Vikings players' manually into 'Widnes Vikings rugby league players'. If there is an automatic move, that'd be great as there are a number of other anomalies between '...players' and '...rugby league players'.

• [Team ...players ...rugby league players]
• [Bradford Bulls 90 33]
• [Castleford Tigers 90 9]
• [Huddersfield Giants 85 9]
• [Hull Kingston Rovers 83 1]
• [London Broncos 122 58] (Note the 58 are Harleguins RL)
• [Salford City Reds 83 2]
• [Wigan Warriors 95 59]

Regards

DynamoDegsy (talk) 08:47, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

I see your point, looking at the page histories it seems user:Jeff79 didn't like the Category:Castleford Tigers players type categories I created back in 2007 and took it upon himself to create a hoard of duplicate categories instead of going through the usual process of proposing that the categories be moved. Personally I cant really see the point in adding the words "rugby league" to the category name except in cases such as Harlequins (RL & RU) where disambiguation is necessary it's not like any of the other sports do this see Category:Boston Celtics players not Category:Boston Celtics basketball players, Category:Sheffield United F.C. players not Category:Sheffield United association football players, Category:Nottingham Panthers players not Category:Nottingham Panthers ice hockey players etc. I will raise a CfD and inform the project page about this issue, having parallel categories like this is absurd. Regards King of the North East 22:26, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

I have now raised a requested move discussion and informed the relevant project of the discussion here, feel free to make your comments on the CfD, regards King of the North East 23:15, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

The MOS, lower-case country names for subs, etc

DynamoDegsy. I've been through a number of the Rugby League articles changing things like [[Leigh]] to [[Leigh Hornets|Leigh]], removing some self-references (I see I missed some), and general cleanups. I tripped up over the use (yours?) of lower case letters (eg papua new guinea) to indicate that a player came on as a sub. A couple of other editors have done the same, thinking it was a mistake. Do you have any major disagreement with me swapping (eg) "france" for "France (sub)"? Similarly, you shouldn't really use bold much in the body of an article for emphasis, you should use italics. Again, do you have an issue with me swapping England for England? Lastly, "whilst" is depracated in favour of "while". So, to take a (slightly made up) example, "Stuart Wright, for England whilst at Wigan 1975 new zealand" would become "Stuart Wright, for England whilst at Wigan 1975 New Zealand (sub)". I can see you put a lot of work into these articles, so I don't want to irritate for the sake of it, but I'm trying to bring them into line with the MOS. Regards, Mr Stephen (talk) 20:45, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

So, do you have an opinion? Mr Stephen (talk) 16:48, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. To be honest, some parts of the MOS are not how I would write them, but without a style guide it would be a bit anarchic. My network connection has been up and down like the proverbial you-know-what tonight but I'll try and work on the Super League teams tonight. If you see any major errors, please let me know. Regards, Mr Stephen (talk) 22:44, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of James Clampitt

A tag has been placed on James Clampitt requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, as well as our subject-specific notability guideline for biographies.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you. Jwkpiano1 (talk) 11:59, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

I may be wrong, but it seems like we shouldn't make articles for every Rugby player that has ever lived. If you feel otherwise, feel free to put {{hangon}} on the top of the page. Thanks! Jwkpiano1 (talk) 12:04, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Hi, I've declined the deletion of James Clampitt per wp:athlete - International level players are certainly notable. Thanks for adding it to Wikipedia. ϢereSpielChequers 14:14, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

PS When creating articles on professional sportsmen an edit summary of "creating bio of prof sportsman per wp:athlete", would give our new page patrollers an unsubtle hint as to why they should mark it as patrolled rather than tag it for deletion. ϢereSpielChequers 14:30, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Your created articles

Hey, I'm from WikiProject on rugby league, and you recently and have created many articles on rugby league players. I have some problems with the articles you create. Out of the 7 articles you created on rugby league I noted, you don't reference anything. How do I know if the information you are talking about is true? It could be all false, and to stop your articles from being deleted, you need to places sources. You must get the information from somewhere, reference it, otherwise it might be condidered Original Research. If you need help with referencing, ask me, or see WP:REF. Secondly, about some problems you make about the infobox:

• You don't need to make the image File:Replace this image male.svg bigger using the "image_size" parameter.
• You can use {{Rlp}} on the positions a player plays at. See the documentation on how it works.
• In any parameter you don't fully now, you use "≤" or "≥" symbols. This is not only ugly, but not suggested. For the parameters "Games", "Tries", "Goals", "FG" and "Points", leave blank if there is no information.
• For the year parameters, it should not (I repeat should not) go over two lines, therfore again, if not fully known should be left blank
• There is a source parameter on {{Infobox rugby league biography}}, use it to identify the source
• Also for every player, you add a club, with the name ?, what is the supposed to do, it is bad.
• Finally, colours are depreciated as they violate Wikipedia policy (WP:MOSFLAGS) and therefore should not be used in the infobox.

Thankyou and I hope you appreciate my comments, if anything unclear, please leave a message here, as I will know if you reply, thankyou,  The Windler talk  06:14, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

• The use of the "image_size" parameter is a legacy from the original article that I used as a template, as at the time I was unaware of the ‘Template:Infobox rugby league biography’. In future, I shall ensure the "image_size" parameter is blank. I will revisit and amend my existing articles.
• The {{Rlp}} is okay, but it’s southern hemisphere-centric as Five-eighth, Halfback and Lock are generally known as Stand-off, Scrum-half and Loose forward in the northern hemisphere, and I was trying to be inclusive. Is there any way that {{Rlp}} can be modified to show both northern and southern hemisphere descriptions of these positions?
• In future, I shall leave the "Games", "Tries", "Goals", "FG" and "Points" parameters blank if not known. I will revisit and amend my existing articles.
• In future, I shall use the Source: {{{source}}} parameter. I will revisit and amend my existing articles. Having used the Source: {{{source}}} parameter, do I need to add additional references to the main body of the article, if they are from the same source?
• In future, I shall no longer use flags in the {{Infobox rugby league biography}}, even though they do brighten up an otherwise dull table. I will revisit and amend my existing articles.
• I’m not sure what you mean by “for every player, you add a club, with the name”, can you please elucidate?
• I have a problem with the {{Infobox rugby league biography}}. It appears to be limited to 10 clubs, and players such as Geoffrey Clarkson played for more than this. Is it possible to have this template modified?

Best Regards

Thankyou for your response.

• I agree with your statement on {{rlp}} OK.
• No, you need to use every instant of the source in the article using <ref></ref>, whereas the "source=" parameter you use [url title] (where title is the name of the source, eg Darren Lockyer)
• So if you use the same source for many statements in the article, use<ref name="Source1">Enter source info here</ref>, then use <ref name="Source1"/> in every instance after.
• Not only flags, but the colours, eg. .
• I can fix increase the number of teams in the template, give me a little time.
• Eg, on Charles Pawsey (rugby league), you have for parameter "club1=" is "?", is this a place holder for something, does this mean he absolutely played for another club before hand. If information isn't known, it is generally left out?

Thankyou,  The Windler talk  10:37, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

• re: "Not only flags, but the colours" Sorry, I meant both flags and colours.
• re: "club1=" is "?", ah, I see what you mean. It was meant as a placeholder. I will revisit and amend my existing articles.
• On the topic of revisiting existing articles, is there a way to get a list of all of the articles I've created? Soxred93's Tool is truncated to 'only' 100 articles... [2]

Best Regards

You'll find all your created articles here  The Windler talk  11:10, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

I think you also need to have a read of Wikipedia:Naming_convention, specifically this part. Thanks.--Jeff79 (talk) 13:39, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

The problem I have with common names is that a person can have several of them, e.g. Douglas Clark (rugby league) is randomly known as Doug Clark, Dougie Clark or Duggy Clark, dependant upon which reference is used. Similarly people called William, are invariably called; Will, Bill, or Billy, etc. which is why I’m erring towards using their ‘Sunday’ name.

Best Regards

Please see User_talk:Jeff79#Use_common_names_of_persons_and_things.--Jeff79 (talk) 22:15, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

In light of this, can you now stop making up your own names for the biography articles you create please?--Jeff79 (talk) 12:30, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

You also need to read this.--Jeff79 (talk) 15:22, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

It would be really helpful if you would read and follow the WP:OVERLINK guideline and also to stop using made-up names for players in their biography articles. Such edits are going to be undone. It will save a lot of time and energy if they could just be done right the first time. If you need any clarification about any of this, just ask.Jeff79 (talk) 09:52, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I have updated {{Rlp}} to include northern hemisphere terms as well as southern. You can now use "SO", "SH" and "LF". LunarLander // talk // 16:27, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Wakefield Trinity

Hi. I see you undid my replacement of the large list of notable Trinity players with a Category link. I feel that have literally hundreds of players listed as being notable is pretty meaningless and also leads to a very cluttered article. There is the fragments of a discussion regarding this on the article's talk page. Please put your points across there. Cheers! Dancarney (talk) 11:28, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Rugby league player bios

Hi there

The script you're using to create rugby league bio players has a glitch: it's spacing the quote marks around nicknames in the lead wrongly, and created e.g. Michael "Mick "Worrall instead of Michael "Mick" Worrall". Probably worth some attention. Gonzonoir (talk) 10:04, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply, DynamoDegsy: I've replied and made another suggestion on my talk page. Gonzonoir (talk) 08:47, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Rugby league players

You have created a lot of rugby league players articles over the past few months, and I have no problem with that, except that I usually follow up and tag them with WikiProject Rugby league and WPBiography tags. WikiProject Rugby league and to a lesser extent WikiProject Biography are projects that Wikipedia users form to oversee Rugby league and Biography articles. We tag all articles by editing their talk pages. The point of tagging them, is so that if they are ever put up for deletion or need reviewing or any other similar things, we know about it, and may help to save the article from being deleted or help in the review process. The reason I am pointing this out to you is you create a lot of articles. And for me to follow up and add these tags, is a boring job. Could it be possible for you to add the following to each talk/discussion page you create.

{{WikiProject Rugby league
|class=stub
|importance=low
}}
{{WPBiography
|class=stub
|listas=
}}

Any questions, you can reply here.  The Windler talk  06:11, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Just a small addition to the above. Would you also include the |living=? It will help the people at BLP who need to keep track of material that could be litigous. While you are at it, would you copy the {{DEFAULTSORT}} value from the article page and paste it after the |listas= on the talk page?

Thank you for your assistance.

JimCubb (talk) 20:10, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

JimCubb Could please check/amend Talk:Louis Marshall (rugby league)DynamoDegsy (talk) 20:43, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

I did it and thought I left a message about it. All that is needed after |listas= is the value from {{DEFAULTSORT}}, the words after the colon. If you get a chance look at {{lifetime}}. It acts as a sort value and has parameters for date of birth and date of death. I had to guess from the usage in the article that Mr Marshall is still living.

Thank you again for your cooperation.

JimCubb (talk) 20:39, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Saints' Notable Former Players

Just to let you know, I slightly modified your edit to the section of the Saints page. It was nothing major- I just added a flag icon and changed the external link to a reference to make it look more organised.

Just a pointer for future edits, I'm by no means whatsoever trying to discourage you from editing.

Ta for your time,

Ymron (talk) 09:43, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Split off records including international appearances

You may be interested in this discussion. Cheers, GW(talk) 11:55, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

www.englandrl.co.uk/

Hi - I find this link which you use as a source to support international caps really confusing. For instance, this morning I looked at the Emlyn Gwynne article and followed the www.englandrl.co.uk link you had posted, yet I cannot find an Emlyn Gwynne. Certainly not on the page you linked to and even after I put in a search. There is an Emlyn Jenkins, but not Gwynne. Is there a direct link you can use to support international data? Cheers,  florrie  23:31, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi Florrie, apologies, firstly I made a mistake in the inline citation, putting a double // in the rugbyleagueproject URL. With regard to the www.englandrl.co.uk external link, I've been helping englandrl correct some errors and anomalies on their website, during which I also identified that only players who had played for Great Britain AND England feature on their website, meaning Irish, Scottish & Welsh players, and even English players who had played for Great Britain but not England, such as Rugby League Hall of Fame inductee, Vince Karalius did not feature. I suspect, but I don’t know for sure, but Emlyn Gwynne is probably Welsh, so he wouldn’t necessarily have appeared on the englandrl website. I believe non-England international Great Britain internationals are still not shown, but I’m hoping the statistics of will be correctly shown soon, but I’ve not been back to the articles to remove or quote out the external englandrl link. DynamoDegsy (talk) 09:24, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Infoboxes for dual-code players

In case you aren't aware, the template for rugby league biography which you have used for dual-code footballers has the capacity to cater for both codes separately. If you scroll down a bit further on the template's coding page you'll see the rugby union fields to be added on.Jeff79 (talk) 12:25, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

St Helens RLFC Players Earning International Caps Whilst At St Helens

I recently put St Helens up for reassessment and, although it did not move from the start class it was, the assessors did give me pointers by which to improve the article. What I am getting at is (at the risk of calling you old (!)) you seem to know a lot more about the past of clubs than the present. Would it be too much to ask that you could reference some - if not all of the players who earned caps?

I do appreciate that you have other pages to be working on - for example I have noticed your work on the Warrington and Wigan pages - so don't commit to just the one if you don't want to (don't commit to it at all for the same reason for that matter.)

Your help would be vastly appreciated,

Thanks a lot,

Ymron (talk) 08:31, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Just to inform you as well, that is if you choose to help, that I have moved the International Caps section from the main page to St Helens RLFC International Players.

Cheers,

Ymron (talk) 09:42, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

I was about to write the same message! I figured that if I'm going to do an article on Wigan players, I may as well do it properly. Could you tell us where you're getting information on international appearances so we can reference it and elevate the articles to higher classes? GW(talk) 09:33, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

The information on international appearances is obtained from a combination of rugbyleagueproject.org and englandrl.co.uk (Note: as yet, the englandrl site only gives GB stats for England internationals, i.e. no Irish/Scots/Welsh or even English who haven’t played for England, e.g. Vince Karalius). I created 'Players earning International Caps while at...' sections for forty-ish clubs, I envisaged this as a temporary home, until I completed creating articles for 'every' international player (I'm quite close to finishing GB players, England next, and then the world!!!). My concern is, when players' international statistics are shown on the player’s own page, is there any merit of the statistics being duplicated in the 'Players earning International Caps while at...' section? Also, even if they are exact duplicates now, there’s a high possibility of them getting out of sync over time. Cheers. DynamoDegsy (talk) 10:33, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your help but I don't quite understand your concern on the details on players pages being duplicated.

Please elaborate,

Ymron (talk) 10:42, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Let's say, someone updates the information in the player article, but forgets to update the 'Players earning International Caps while at...' section, then a discrepancy has been introduced, this could cast a doubt as to which information is correct, then someone might 'correct' the player article to match the out-of-date 'Players earning International Caps while at...' section. Ideally, changing the information in one place, would be result in the information being dynamically corrected everywhere, but as the information within Wikipedia is static, this isn't possible. Cheers.DynamoDegsy (talk) 11:11, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

This shouldn't matter, as long as the material is sourced and is viable then it is reliable.

Thanks for your help again and I will add information to the page in due course,

Ymron (talk) 11:19, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Players earning International Caps... - positions and style of referencing

Hi Dynamo, I like all the effort you've put into these sections on club pages, I think they are a great addition to articles but there are a couple of things I hope you will consider:

• Reference style - would you mind putting a bit more than just the URL when supporting your facts please? Here is an example of what I mean from Hull Kingston Rovers:
  * [[Cyril Kellett]] (#1) [http://www.rugbyleague.org/features/content.php?feat_id=276&featcat_id=32] (382).

Please use Template:Cite web (there are similar ones for books etc. listed in [[Category:Citation templates]] if you need them) to reference your sources otherwise it's left to someone else to work their way through it all at some point. There are more fields available for the template but I generally aim to fill out the ones below (if I can find it - sometimes you might not be able to find a publish date or you might have to put the organisation/publisher as the author):

<ref name="parfitt22-07-08">{{cite web
|url= http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2008/07/22/jonathan-hails-crusaders-super-league-entry-91466-21382733/
|publisher= WalesOnline.co.uk
|title=Jonathan hails Crusaders Super League entry
|author=Delme Parfitt
|date=2008-07-22
|accessdate=2009-04-20}}</ref>

The first time you cite something for a particular webpage you will need to put all of the above with the fact.

If you need to cite the same page again for the same wiki article you just need to copy the 'ref name' (which you need to make unique in some way e.g. include date or number it) and add a backslash after the fact:

<ref name="parfitt22-07-08"/>

• In these sections I've noticed you've put e.g. (#13) if you know the player's positions. I think it would be more appropriate to use (LK) or (LF), for example, to note the positions rather than use the number. Rugby league terminology doesn't really use numbers to talk about positions (with the possible exceptions of '6' and '7' sometimes). What are you thoughts?

• Looking at Huddersfield (maybe others), the sections include several rugby union appearances at times when the player was not with Huddersfield. I was wondering why has a cap been included from a time when they were not with the club?

Thanks, LunarLander // talk // 03:46, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of George Thomas (rugby)

The article George Thomas (rugby) has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

same player as George Thomas (rugby player)

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{dated prod}} will stop the Proposed Deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The Speedy Deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and Articles for Deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Mattlore (talk) 10:50, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

otherpersons

Whats wrong with the otherpersons tag? Mattlore (talk) 22:52, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

A quick favour, can you point me in the direction of the otherpersons usage format?. Cheers. DynamoDegsy (talk) 10:54, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Template:Otherpersons/doc. Is that what you're after? It should be sufficiently flexible to cover any objects you have over my edits. Mattlore (talk) 00:05, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Cheers DynamoDegsy (talk) 09:50, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Deliberate links to disambiguation pages

I've noticed you've removed several inter-disambiguation page links that use Foo (disambiguation) to redirect to Foo, e.g. [3]. These are exempt from the usual requirement to avoid redirects on disambiguation pages, as they help anyone cleaning up links to dab pages (the WP:DPL project) by indicating they are deliberate. Please see WP:INTDABLINK. Thanks. Tassedethe (talk) 21:15, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Oops, I didn't realise they were deliberate, I'll stop "correcting" them forthwith. DynamoDegsy (talk)

Edit summary

Just a quick note; a few of your recent edits have come up on my watch-list, but as you didn't provide an edit summary, it meant I had to go look at what was quite a routine edit. Could you try and provide edit summaries, even for your minor edits. Thanks! Harrias (talk) 10:43, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Don't do it, it makes people lazy. Otherwise the vandals will have an easy way to damage pages that we then won't check because they add a summary to fool us. Also you are too busy and important, keep editing, only add a summary if it is slightly argumentative. You know it makes sense. FruitMonkey (talk) 00:23, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

See

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rugby league and discussYoundbuckerz (talk) 09:52, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

South Wales jerseys

it is up on their website. Do you know how to put it on the south wales scorpions infobox thing on the wikipedia page?Youndbuckerz (talk) 06:09, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, I've not attempted adding jersey graphics, just images, there must be someone out there who knows how to do it, but not me =:o)DynamoDegsy (talk) 12:42, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Alex Murphy

... is currently languishing at Wikipedia:Article Incubator/Unreferenced BLPs/Athletes/Alex Murphy. I've noticed you adding a lot f career info to RL articles; are you able to provide any stats and references? This article needs to be in mainspace.   pablo_hablo. 13:29, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

I noticed he'd disappeared, I wondered where he'd gone, I'll add some stats and references. DynamoDegsy (talk) 15:26, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Cheers. I had (at one time) quite a collection of Rothmans RL yearbooks, and I'm wondering what's happened to them, now that I need them! Such a top player deserves a top article.   pablo_hablo. 17:23, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Charles W. Carr

this is a heads up as you were/are the major contributor to "Charles Carr" now at "Charles W. Carr". It was subject to a clever? vandalism attack on 5 December 2009 where the content was replaced with the content of another rugby page. A good faith editor then redirected the page to the page from which the content was copied, which buried the vandalism. I am writing an stub article on a chap called "Lord [Charles] Carr" and so came across this page because I needed to disambiguate it, but I will not have it on my watch list. As you were a major contributor you might like to place it on yours. -- PBS (talk) 20:46, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for spotting the vandalism, there really are some proper chumps around. I tend not to watch the articles I've written; treating them like children who've left home, but I'm beginning to think I might need to keep an eye on them. DynamoDegsy (talk)

List of Wales national rugby league team players

Thanks for pointing me to the great article you put together. If I find any info I'll be sure to update it. Thanks. FruitMonkey (talk) 18:14, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Re Eddie Watkins. Yes it is, he joined Wigan in March 1939. I'll update the article to reflect his league career today. When I started writing many of the Welsh articles I had a limited number of reference books; I have a far wider range now so I may well have missed league information (I now have a RL Wales book, It's a real saviour). FruitMonkey (talk) 11:45, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

So far only a few pieces of info. I have a middle initial, D.R. "Dai" Bevan, who played for Wales twice in April and September 1953 on both occasions representing Wigan. His prior rugby union team was Oldham. Not much help. FruitMonkey (talk) 21:18, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and there's already an article on him. Dai Royston Bevan. FruitMonkey (talk) 17:04, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

The article appears to have been written by a member of the family, and it links in with your thoughts that there was one piece of info incorrect, that being who he was playing for during the GB game. FruitMonkey (talk) 17:20, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

I've also started linking RU information on William Davies (rugby league 1914), as a dual code player can you think of a better disambiguation name for the article? Maybe William Davies (rugby). Help FruitMonkey (talk) 21:37, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

That does seem to be the form most commonly used, so go for it :O) DynamoDegsy (talk) 21:41, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

A new one for you. I've just knocked up an article on Mel Rosser, but can't find his stats for touring Australia with the GB team in 1928. I have references that he went, but no stats. Could he have travelled and just not played? FruitMonkey (talk) 16:45, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

My suspicion would be that he travelled, but didn't play in the Test Matches, and although he may well have played in Great Britain's non-Test Matches against Australian, and New Zealand; States, Districts, and club sides, these matches are not well documented. I have a similar issue with a player from "my" team, Wakefield Trinity, a Gilbert Robinson toured with GB in 1932, and I even have a picture of him in his GB shirt, but as far as I know he didn't play in the test matches. I would consider the content of List of Great Britain national rugby league team players that I added to be reliable as I used one online and two hardcopy sources... that come to think of it they should be referenced in the article. However, I’ve not added Gilbert Robinson to the "List of Great Britain national rugby league team players", but if I did find evidence of him playing in non-Test Matches should I add him? Although he wouldn’t have played in an international (poor chap, as far as I know he didn’t even get to play for England, or Yorkshire), but technically he would be a Great Britain national rugby league team player. Your thoughts? Cheers. DynamoDegsy (talk) 17:49, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

I've hit several identical problems with the union Lions. People are selected, go on the trip, but never get an international call up, for whatever reason. I play the card, that if you wore the shirt or were selected to travel and train with the team, you were a Lion. I just mention in the article that they did not play a full Test, and in the infobox, I place the Lions down, but state under the games stat - 0 (0). The All Blacks do an identical thing, if you toured with the All Blacks, you are an All Black, you just might not pick up an international cap. FruitMonkey (talk) 18:08, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm... Ponty is a nickname, it would follow that he came from Pontypool or Pontypridd. Tuss, I'm not sure of, I'll keep looking. Lenny Woodard was allowed to shift back and forth between the two codes as in this and this. While Alex Kersley to Brown is actually Alex Kersley-Brown. FruitMonkey (talk) 16:53, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Also like the blind fool I appear to be, there is a section at the back of my book which lists every Welsh player to have gone on the tours down under with the GB team, along with appearances, goals, tries and Test matches. So I have now answered by question regarding Mel Rosser. Played nine times, none of them Tests. FruitMonkey (talk) 17:05, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Holmes, I can't help you on as my book stops in 1985. But with Boston and Freeman I can give some help. The answer is kind of yes and no. Between 1953 and 1968 Wales played no full internationals (I don't know why), basically covering the two players professional careers. ...but during that period three matches were organised between France and a Welsh XIII. This Welsh team was representative but they did not count as full internationals and no caps were awarded. W.J. Boston (Wigan) is recorded as playing against France 'B' on 19th May 1955, while a J. Freeman (Halifax) played against France on 17th Feb 1963. Does this help? FruitMonkey (talk) 12:57, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I'll update their articles to reflect this shortly. Are there any other Welsh players who played for Wales, but in non-full internationals? Another question, a technical one this time, when I respond on my talk page to your answer on my talk page, do you automatically get a new messages prompt? DynamoDegsy (talk) 14:36, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

First off; no I don't get a flag if you reply on your page, only if you write on mine. Secondly, the were five non-recognised Welsh internationals. Against Northern RL on 17 April 1927, but all XIII were either full internationals, or would go on to become full internationals. Jim Sullivan, Dennis Madden, George Gummer, Stan Mountain, Alan Edwards (rugby league), David Jenkins (rugby league), Emlyn Jenkins, Dai Prosser, Melvyn Meek, D. Evans (Huddersfield), Norman Fender, Norman Pugh, Alex Givvens. The stats given on your article, also ignore this game, (eg Gummer played two games in 1936 plus the 1937 match listed here; you stats reflect two caps.) I'll add the rest shortly. FruitMonkey (talk) 17:55, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Empire XII at Llanelli on 19th May 1951, Glyn Moses, Arthur Daniels, G. Price (Halifax) capt., Leslie Williams, Roy Lambert, J.H. Thomas (Workington), William Banks, Elwyn Gwyther, R. Blakemore (St Helens), W.J. Jones (Llanelli), Ray Cale, Bryn Goldswain, Granville James. Those with a team club attached appear to be not capped for Wales. FruitMonkey (talk) 18:05, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

I believe the Wales XIII versus British Empire XIII match was associated with the Festival of Britain celebrations. It appears that R. Blakemore (St Helens) is Reg Blakemore a Wales & Newport hooker. Interesingly, the positional number on the WRU website is stated as "9" rather than "2", is this a mistake or were RU pack numbers (flankers excepted) the same as RL numbers back in the 1940s? J.H. Thomas (Workington) is John "Jack"/"Jackie" Thomas who doesn't appear to be Wales RU international, but was a 1952 Challenge Cup winning stand-off with Workington. As yet, I've had no joy in identifying W.J. Jones (Llanelli), but I'm wondering whether G. Price (Halifax), could be Gareth Price who had won 11-caps while at Leeds between 1945…1948? DynamoDegsy (talk) 21:33, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the fact that they were playing the game at Llanelli, they allowed a local boy to play to give a nod to the Welsh teams. France 'B' at Nantes May 19th 1955, Glyn Moses, Lionel Emmitt (though spelled Emmett), Billy Boston, Arthur Daniels, Malcolm Davies, William Banks, R. Thomas (Swinton), John Thorley, Tommy Harris, S.G. Owen (Leigh), Charles Winslade, Mel Tierney, Bryn Goldswain (captain). FruitMonkey (talk) 09:42, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Regarding the France 'B' game at Nantes May 19th 1955, S.G. Owen (Leigh) will be Stan Owen, and R. Thomas (Swinton) will be Rees Thomas, but not your Rees Thomas of the 1900s & '10s. Regarding the British Empire XIII game at Llanelli 19th May 1951, as far as I'm aware there wasn't an RL team in Llanelli Circa-1951, but if W.J. Jones (Llanelli) had been RU player with Llanelli RFC, I would have thought the RU/RL antagonism would mean that playing RL would prevent him from ever playing RU again, but I guess he could have been from the town of Llanelli, and was perhaps on the verge of joining an RL club… but which one? The G. Price (Halifax) is a Gareth Price, so it's likley to be the "Gareth Price who had won 11-caps while at Leeds between 1945…1948". DynamoDegsy (talk) 09:39, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

• Wales vs France at Toulouse 1 March 1959, G.D. Owen (Halifax), L Emmett (Blackpool), G. Lewis (Leigh), J Cheshire (Salford), M Davies (Bradford), G Jones (Salford), R Thomas (Wigan), GMJ Thorley (Halifax), PT Harris (Hull) capt., D Moses (Swinton), DG Vines (Wakefield), G Parsons (Salford), CH Winslade (Oldham). FruitMonkey (talk) 20:59, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

• • Wales vs France at Toulouse 17 February 1963, K. Coslett (St. Helens), R Glastonbury (Workington), G Lewis (Leigh), CJ Dixon (Halifax), J Freeman (Halifax), BL Jones (Leeds) 'capt.', C Evans (Leeds), SG Owen (Leigh), CH Winslade (Warrington), R Morgan (Swinton), L Fisher (Warrington), T Robbins (Bramley) DG Vines (Wakefield) FruitMonkey (talk) 23:11, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

• Lewis Morgan Rees (17 Jan 1910 - 21 Dec 1976), Rugby union international for Treorchy and Cardiff, joined Oldham in 1934, made his debut for the club on 25 August. Same guy. FruitMonkey (talk) 17:23, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

• • Don't think so, that's just my gut reation though. With David Harris Davies I have no link that he was a dual code, and the Whos Who of rugby union does not list him as 'going north'. Also, one of my book states that DH Davies was "...later prominent in Welsh rugby administration". FruitMonkey (talk) 22:17, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Good work on 'Tuss'. No he never won a full cap, as the 'Victory Internationals' were never capped. There's a mention of him here. FruitMonkey (talk) 20:11, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

[This] may shed some light on the situation. There appears to have been a Rugby League league in Wales in the early 1950s, teams included Aberavon, Llanelli, Bridgend, Swansea, Cardiff, Neath, etc. FruitMonkey (talk) 18:29, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Other Nationalities

Checking the Other Nationalities article, I noticed that there is a flag underneath the player stats that states the Feb 5th 1921 game against England is not included. Is there a reason for this? It was the infamous Wales XIII, but I'm sure it is still a valid 'Other Nations' match. If it's needed I have the list of players and their clubs. Cheers FruitMonkey (talk) 19:23, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

I'd noticed that omission as well, I thought that it was just a hole in the originators reference, and I didn’t have the information to fill the gap. I don't know the history of the "infamous Wales XIII", so perhaps it's worth expanding the article to make reference to it. DynamoDegsy (talk) 21:52, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

I'll fill the gaps tonight. As there were so few games I'd love to see a complete listing of all matches. FruitMonkey (talk) 12:21, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Hi DD, thank you for the notes about the three Scottish RL players. I'm not that knowledgable about RL, to be honest, and most of the info is second hand.

Going through the three of them, Thomas Wright (rugby) would seem to fit the post-'49 scale. Willie Welsh fits the 1933 date as well. Unlike the other two, Gordon Gray (rugby) seems not to fit the dates for ON.

It would be helpful if there were team lists for these, but I suspect they're buried in a magazine somewhere. As usual for sports, other than cricket the records are incomplete/appalling.--MacRusgail (talk) 16:16, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Jim Birch

You created an article for Jim Birch, and I have a Wales international RU player of the same name. I thought it must be the same bloke, ...but he played RL first. My James Birch, was also known as Jim Birch. English by birth and from Northampton, played in England until coming to Wales, playing in two matches in 1911. He was a prop forward. This is very coincidental, do you have any more details? FruitMonkey (talk) 12:53, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

It does seem a coincidence, particularly with them both being Props. Everything I know is in his article. It’s a shame that the WRU and Scrum websites don’t have a middle name or initial. Do you know whether he played for Wales whilst at Northampton, or had he moved to a Welsh club? Northampton is an unusual place for a Rugby League player to have come from, or moved to, with there being no coal mines. If he had been RL player, I would have thought the RU/RL antagonism would have prevented him from going on to play RU. If it is the same guy, i.e. born on the 30 December 1889, if he played for Great Britain RL on the 15 February 1908, or for England RL against Wales on either 20 April 1908, or 28 December 1908, he’d have only been 18, which seems very young for international prop, particularly in those days (Though Andy Farrell was only 18 years, 5 months, 7 days when he first played for Great Britain, though not at prop), but saying that even if it’s a different guy he’d have only been 21 when playing for Wales RU, the fact that his England RL game came against Wales also seems odd, so maybe it’s a coincidence and they are different guys. DynamoDegsy (talk) 21:41, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Johnny Duggan

Hi, do you know anything about him? I have somewhere some basic info, not enough to create an article but any extra could make it worthwhile to continue with. Please let me know. RichardLowther (talk) 14:34, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Hello, I've created a John "Johnny" Duggan article, so you can add your info. I'm in Norway at the moment, but when I get back to England (Wakefield), I'll add Johnny Duggan's Wakefield Trinity 'Pld T G FG P' statistics. If there are any other Wakefield RFC/Wakefield Trinity cross-over players you know of, just let me know, and I'll create an article. I assume you're associated with Wakefield RFC in some way?DynamoDegsy (talk) 07:09, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Cheers, I have added the bits that I have also see the talk page - would be really interested to know what happened re the reinstatement - looked on the web and can't find anything!

I was a supporter at Wakefield RFC from 1976 to it's demise and I ran the website and wrote the programme notes in the latter years. I have a large collection of programmes from 1970's onwards and notes/reports from 1901 onwards - some I am trying to get on here for info. I am currently going through these and trying to ascertain which players turned pro - not just for Trinity but other clubs - probably at least 30 players. Plus would like to see pages on some of the latter RU>RL>RU players such as Neil Summers, Simon Irving etc in time. RichardLowther (talk) 21:09, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

I have noticed that you added the reference to him living in NZ. Do you know anymore? RichardLowther (talk) 20:01, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Norman Hazell the former Wakefield councillor had written to the Wakefield Express about celebrating the 50th anniversary of Wakefield Trinity’s 1960 Challenge Cup win over Wigan, so I got in contact with him. I asked him who he was still in contact with, and he mentioned Johnny Duggan, and that he had emigrated to New Zealand... not information that I could exactly reference, but I thought it worth adding to his article. Do you know if there are any plans to reconstitute Wakefield RFC as part of the development of the new Wakefield Community Stadium? DynamoDegsy (talk) 20:46, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. I will have a word with Norman. I have been compiling an e-newsletter showcasing some of my Wakefield memorabilia and plan to feature JD in it at some time - if you want a copy, email at tackler7@yahoo.com, I have a column called 'lost to league' featuring the players that crossed over from Wakefield RFC to RL.

As for reformation, I doubt it. I would love to see it happen, but I don't think there is the will or money to do it. RichardLowther (talk) 16:38, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

I mentioned the reformation to Wakefield Trinity Wildcats' General Manager Francis Stephenson, I didn't get a response :o( but I would have thought that as a Community Stadium, the more sports that the new Stadium accommodates, the better... I wonder whether a councillor with Wakefield RFC/Wakefield Trinity Wildcats links might have some idea of what sports are to be accommodate. Does Norman Hazel have Wakefield RFC links?. I'll forward my email address for your e-newsletter. DynamoDegsy (talk) 17:14, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Norman used to watch Wakefield one week, Sandal the other. He now receives my newsletter.He's replied about JD, but can't provide much more info. I have my views on the 'community' aspect of the stadium, and I don't see much community use other than for Trinity! RichardLowther (talk) 21:32, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Otheruses4->About

Please do not use {{otheruses4}}. It redirects to {{about}}.174.3.123.220 (talk) 19:04, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:A.V.Royle.jpg

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Glyn Prosser

Yes, Dai and Glyn were brothers, though I have Glyn moving to Huddersfield RLFC in late 1935. FruitMonkey (talk) 22:58, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Dai joined York first, making his debut on 15 September 1934. No info yet on the guys who played for Monmouthshire before switching to League. It does look like them though. FruitMonkey (talk) 17:28, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

You are now a Reviewer

Hello. Your account has been granted the "reviewer" userright, allowing you to review other users' edits on certain flagged pages. Pending changes, also known as flagged protection, is currently undergoing a two-month trial scheduled to end 15 August 2010.

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Infobox function

You are a god. I've been looking for that for a while, it just makes things look far better. FruitMonkey (talk) 11:02, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

George Shepherd

Hi, you created the the article Gary Shepherd but moved it to George Shepherd. Throughout the article he is referred to as Gary Shepherd. The only ref I can find on the web is here and that uses Gary Shepherd. Is it George Shepherd known as Gary, or something else? Tassedethe (talk) 08:57, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Iorwerth Evans

I think this is a merger of two players. Iorweth Evans (1908-1985) for whom I have no record at Cardiff (though an I. Evans did represent Cardiff for just 6 games between 1931 and 1932), he did represent Bedford Athletic and London Welsh. Thomas Iorwerth Jones (1903-1983), did represent Llanelli before joining Leeds; playing his first game for them on 13 February 1932. FruitMonkey (talk) 21:04, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Iorrie Isaacs (1910-1966) was a Cardiff and Pontypridd player who switched to Leeds RLFC in 1933.

Billy Moore

That's a nasty little article, I must have been on an off-day when I put that together. No, you are correct, he was a hornets player. I've updated parts of the article. FruitMonkey (talk) 21:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Disputed non-free use rationale for File:Attie van Heerden.jpg

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Hugh Lloyd-Davies

Appears to be the same guy. R.H. Lloyd-Davies who played as full-back for Cambridge University, scoring with a dropped goal in each half, the first on twenty minutes, the second from forty yards out. The Lloyd-Davies from Cambridge is listed as having come from Ammanford Grammar. Though I should mention that my Varsity book does not mention him as Hugh, just R.H., there's always a chance they were from a sporting family. FruitMonkey (talk) 20:14, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

William Arnold Bowen/William 'Billy' E. Bowen

Sorry Degsy, I'm drawing a blank in this one. The books I have do not mention any family links, including the books which normally link relations. FruitMonkey (talk) 21:58, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

James brother

These two didn't do things by half. It appears they went North and were paid to play for the Northern club. I think the word professional should be removed when describing Broughton in 1892. FruitMonkey (talk)

The James' left Swansea for Broughton in 1893, for supposed jobs as warehousemen for £2 a week and free cigars, train fare and 4 star hotel accomodation, after they are said to have demanded 30 shillings a week from Swansea. They returned in 1899 to play for Wales, after Swansea begged the RFU for their reinstatement; which was given by Rowland Hill. 12 days after their final Wales international, they and their entire family left for Broughton. This time for a sign-on fee of £200 and a promise of £2 a match, plus they got a house each.FruitMonkey (talk) 21:44, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Bert Jones

No he was a Llanelli boy. My book states 13 matches for St Helens,but I would stick with the 14. Seemed to do nothing more after his return. FruitMonkey (talk) 21:12, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

C.I.A.C.s

Better known as the 'Kayaks', Cardiff International Athletic Club have been around for some time, their most famous son being Billy Boston. FruitMonkey (talk) 16:33, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

George Thomas

We have errors. This is the first one. Newport have muddled their players up. I have seen this before, but there are different birth and death dates, plus he would have been 49 playing for GB. I'm beginning to believe he is a Pontypool player. What were the Worrington cites talking about when they worked? FruitMonkey (talk) 13:37, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Emlyn Jenkins

"Emlyn Jenkins, a brilliant scrum half from Treorchy who was tried also (and succeeded) at outside half, playing sixteen consecutive first team games before turning professional much to the regret of his club and his Rhondda followers" FruitMonkey (talk) 16:42, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Dai Prosser / Arthur Daniels / Glyn Moses

I have Dai Prosser listed at Glynneath, Neath and Swansea at club level, and Glamorgan at county level. Arthur Daniels, I have no info on, there are six named Llanelli players that went North between 1945 and 1947, Les Thomas, Emlyn(Elwyn?) Gwyther, Bryn Llewellyn, Gwylfa Jones and Hagan Evans. Doesn't mean that Daniels did not play for Llanelli though. Nothing on Glyn Moses either sorry. FruitMonkey (talk) 14:19, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

I may have something on Moses, a book I saw in the library had an entire page on Moses (I think), I'll have another look this week. FruitMonkey (talk) 21:05, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

David Galloway

I have found out that Galloway's (Treherbert RLFC) first name was David, and then I came across this (lot 120). Do you have any info as to which club he joined, Hull or Halifax? Ta FruitMonkey (talk) 21:00, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Howell Francis

It's nothing we can use on Wikipedia, but it's enough to link them. His Great Grandson states they are one and the same here. FruitMonkey (talk) 15:53, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

T.C. Lloyd

Strange as it is 'T C' Lloyd of Glynneath is Thomas John Lloyd. I don't know where the C came from, but it was part of his nickname. FruitMonkey (talk) 23:37, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

The Who's Who of Welsh rugby inernationals states: LLOYD, Thomas John: 'T C' Lloyd was a member of the 'Terrible Eight'. After working as a collier he became a bookmaker.

I think the T and the C were part of his nickname.FruitMonkey (talk) 11:52, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Rees Thomas

Thomas left Pontypool for Warrington RLFC making his debut against Wigan on 5 October 1912. Maybe the book mistook Pontypridd for Pontypool. FruitMonkey (talk) 07:02, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

I think Gone North has made an error as books like 'Fields of Praise' have him playing in every international from 1909 to 1913 as a Pontypool player. FruitMonkey (talk) 11:56, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Though there must be an error in one of my books too as if he debuted for Warrington in 1912, how did he play a union international in 1913. That's strange. FruitMonkey (talk) 11:58, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Watcyn Thomas

Hold fire on Thomas, although there is nothing in Who's Who, I think I may have a biography of Watcyn Thomas. Gallacher is Ian Stuart Gallacher who played for Llanelli, Felinfoel, Barbarians and Wales. One cap in 1970s. He is a dual code after joining Bradford and winning 4 RL caps. FruitMonkey (talk) 21:53, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Can't seem to find anything about Watcyn Thomas playing for Felinfoel in his biography. FruitMonkey (talk) 22:18, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Leonard Smith (rugby league)

Hi DynamoDegsy, Sorry it took so long to respond on your comment re: Len Smith. First of all, thanks for creating the article: My mother, Len's daughter, noticed it a few weeks ago and was quite delighted to find her father's memory on Wikipedia. I must confess deep ignorance about his rugby career (and, in truth, the sport in general), unfortunately, but some of my older cousins may be better able to answer your questions about the position he played and his career outside of Hunslet. I'll do some digging and get back to you. Nephtes (talk) 12:11, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Hello again. Sadly no one I've spoken to in the family has been able to give me any further information on Len's career. However, we do have two framed newspaper clippings, one of which is a picture of him scoring the winning try in what I assume must be the 1933-34 Challenge Cup final over Widnes. Would you be interested in a scan? - Nephtes (talk) 16:29, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia's image tags can be a hassle, yes; I had the current Len Smith photo deleted because I forgot the copyright info. I'll have to check carefully to see if the Challenge Cup newspaper photo fits one of the public domain cases. Certainly seems like it ought to be old enough. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nephtes (talk • contribs) 16:30, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Books published by Books LLC

Hi DynamoDegsy, I saw that you added books published by "Books LLC" to several articles. Unfortunately, books published by that company are just compilations of articles copied from Wikipedia (see Wikipedia:Mirrors and forks/Abc#Books, LLC). So they aren't valid references and should not be used in articles per WP:CIRCULAR. Regards, --Kam Solusar (talk) 18:25, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

John Lendill

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Mick Shoebottom

Hi Degsy, thank you for the update on Mick's injury. I remember it as I was at that match but was unable to recall what happened as I was probably only aged about 12 or 13 at the time. I'm so glad he made an almost full recovery. He was a great utility player. A big fella as well. I remember he used to work for Bison's cement in Meanwood. Cheers mate... Chilkoot (talk) 18:29, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Darrel Shelford

I've added some extra info, it may need reformatting better but it's late and I am tired! I think the page name needs changing too. There is little agreement on the web or printed matter whether it is Darrall or Darrel. I went for the later as that seems to the name on the latest news articles I can find. RichardLowther (talk) 22:16, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Dai Davies

I am trying to put together an article on Dai Davies (footballer born 1880); the Who's Who of Welsh International Soccer Players lists him as "David (Dai) Davies" (1880-1944) and says that he first played Rugby Union for Llanelli before switching to Rugby League with Swinton in 1898 where he won a Rugby League Challenge Cup medal in 1900. In 1902 he switched again, this time to Association Football, joining Bolton Wanderers (as a goalkeeper), appearing in the 1904 FA Cup Final. He also won three caps for Wales.

In 1910, he switched back to Rugby Union with Swinton and, with his brother Dan (also a Swinton player), won an international cap for Wales against England in October 1910. He finished his career with Leigh in 1913.

You created an article on Daniel Davies (rugby league) who I assume is the brother; you also created the article on David Davies (rugby league) who appears to be a different player although he also was with Swinton in 1910.

The List of Wales national rugby league team players include two other Dai Davies, but these both came later, but not this one. Likewise, he is not mentioned at either The Rugby League project database nor at the Wales Rugby League player database.

There are two mentions of him on the web, here and here.

Any help or pointers you can give would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 16:32, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the very helpful replies, although I am still rather confused. This article, from the Swinton supporters website, gives a biography which only refers to his cap against England on 10th December 1910, whilst the other article states "In 1910, he made his Wales RL debut against England at Coventry". This is not consistent with the David Davies (rugby league) article which gives a Wales career from 1908 to 1913, which period covers his time at both Merthyr Tydfil and Oldham. Very curious. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 18:58, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the latest message - I await the next one which will hopefully make everything clear. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 12:58, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Hi - sorry to bother you again, but were you able to find out any more? Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 12:43, 20 November 2010 (UTC) Thanks for the article - I have expanded the soccer sections. I'd like to put the article up for DYK; the ideal hooks would be that he was the only footballer to play both international association football (soccer), and international rugby league, or that he is the only person to have appeared in both the rugby league Challenge Cup final, and the association football (soccer) FA Cup Final, but to do that we would need to find a citation that says precisely that. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 07:14, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

I have now put it up for DYK here with the hook: "DYK .... that Welshman, Dai Davies is the only person to have appeared in both the rugby league Challenge Cup final, and the association football (soccer) FA Cup Final?" Cheers. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 17:09, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

I guess he should also be listed on the List of players who have converted from one football code to another but under which heading? Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 08:11, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. It's interesting to see that Sutcliffe also played for Bolton Wanderers as a goalkeeper and played in an FA Cup Final (in 1894). Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 18:44, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Inserting Images

I went through the deletion process myself, but the best actions to take are:

• 1. Your image is of someone who is alive. I don't bother, unless it is from the US Library it will be an issue.

• 2. Your image is fairly modern but the person has died (e.g. David Marques or Orig Williams) then use the same template I have done, but only link it to the one article.

• 3. The image is pre-1923. Then use the {{us-old}} Lempriere appears to be pre 1923, so use it.

Which ones have been deleted for you? FruitMonkey (talk) 22:57, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Like I said before, fair use rationale is not really my bag, but hopefully the template added will suffice. Cheers. FruitMonkey (talk) 13:26, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for File:Denis John Boocker.jpg

Thanks for uploading or contributing to File:Denis John Boocker.jpg. I notice the file page specifies that the file is being used under fair use but there is not a suitable explanation or rationale as to why each specific use in Wikipedia constitutes fair use. Please go to the file description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'file' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 22:13, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Dai Davies (footballer born 1880)

Gatoclass (talk) 18:03, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Fred Hughes

Hi, can you confirm from your sources whether Fred Hughes (who I believe is the father of Emlyn Hughes) was a Great Britain intl' or not. Looking at various sources from Emlyn's obituary there is some confusion. I wonder if he only played internationally for Wales, went on the 1946 GB tour of Australia, but only played in non-test matches? See [4] [5] [6] [7]. Also, can you confirm whether Emlyn's brother and uncle were notable as rugby players. Is Eric Hughes his brother? Regards. Eldumpo (talk) 15:28, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

According to saints.org.uk, Emlyn Hughes' father was Emlyn Hughes, but the sources you identify that provide a name for Emlyn Hughes' father, state him as being named Fred Hughes, so I think saints.org.uk might be wrong, and that 'old' Emlyn Hughes, is actually Emlyn Hughes' uncle. The only Hughes to haved played for Great Britain (RL) in Test Matches is Eric Hughes, so if Fred was one of 'The Indomitables', he must have played in the tour matches against club, county, and states, and not the Test Matches. As yet, I can't find anything stating that Eric Hughes was Emlyn's brother. There are five Hughes' who have played for Wales (RL); Adam Hughes, E. Hughes, Frederick "Fred" Hughes, Gomer Hughes, and Stefan Hughes, I'm wondering whether E. Hughes might be 'old' Emlyn Hughes. I shall keep digging and let you know if I turn anything up. Cheers. DynamoDegsy (talk) 13:16, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, I have responded at my talk page - assume you will watch that. Eldumpo (talk) 13:32, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Template:Cook Islands squad 2000 Rugby League World Cup

Hey DynamoDegsy, I see you recently added Jason Pekepo and Tai Walter to the template. As I understand it they were both squad members who didn't play matches at the World Cup. This seems to create some problems as neither seem to be notable for their own articles, having never played in international matches. Furthermore, WP:REDLINKS says that redlinks should only be left for notable articles. This seems to indicate that the names should be either removed from the template or de-linked so they are just plain text.

Do you have any thoughts or preference about the best way to sort it out? Cheers 00:21, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Hello, DynamoDegsy. You have new messages at Mattlore's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Birth/deaths

To answer your question there are pay sites like www.ancestry.co.uk and www.findmypast.co.uk which are good but can be expensive. I got most of my info from www.ancestry this time.

http://www.freebmd.org.uk is free but not as complete as the others. For an example go to http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl and type Emery as a surname, Wyndham as a first name. Cheers. Topcardi (talk)

Featherstone Rovers

I'm not sure that leaving messages for every single editor that has ever contributed anything to the Featherstone Rovers article is particularly helpful, and feels a bit spammy. My only contributions to that were a bit of formatting, so I'm afraid have no idea about the player you're seeking info on. Ilikeeatingwaffles (talk) 13:40, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Ditto. Also, please consider archiving your talk page, as it is very long. Number 57 14:09, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

No idea about the rugby club but I think if I ask at a rugby league forum somebody might know.GordyB (talk) 22:10, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Not my area, but it seems there was a Featherstone rugby team in the 1890s - it's mention here. They mention that there were three Yorkshire division in the early 1890s, so I guess they played in one of the lower ones. Warofdreams talk 09:51, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

TotalRL ForumGordyB (talk) 13:21, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Fred Perrett

The Who's who of Welsh International Rugby players states that Perrett joined Leeds RLFC, making his debut on 6 September 1913. Not sure about when he first played for Hull. FruitMonkey (talk) 17:24, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Barnstar

		The Disambiguator's Barnstar
		Thanks for all your hard work on disambiguation pages, it's appreciated. Best wishes, Boleyn (talk) 20:31, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

John Lawrence Hickson/John Laurence Hickson

How interesting that both articles were done in the same month. Thanks for highlighting the duplication. I will be happy to merge the articles.Kwib (talk) 14:58, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Robert Sandilands Frowd Walker

Hi - I am currently trying to put together an article on R.S.F. Walker, who played football for Scotland in the pseudo-internationals of 1870-72. The inscription on his statue (see[8]) says that he was selected for Scotland v England at Rugby in 1873. Can you shed any light on this? Cheers. -- Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 17:17, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the incredibly helpful reply and for the time you must have spent on this. I'll put the article together over the next few days, and for now I'll leave out the rugby bit (perhaps I'll add a note on the talk page) until someone can find out more. -- Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 22:46, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Entry about John Flynn (rugby league)

Hi, I found the article about John Flynn (rugby league) (who played for Broughton Rangers before the first world war) on wikipedia and it seems that you are the user who created the article. I would be interested to know if you have any more information regarding his career since he is my great, great uncle. The england cap the wikipedia entry mentions is in the posession of my mother. I hope you can provide some more information about his career since we don't know much. Many thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anyamdg (talk • contribs) 06:14, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi Anyamdg, unfortunately I have very little information about your great-great uncle. However, I've just added a little more detail to the John Flynn (rugby league) article. As he was in the England team against New Zealand on 11 January 1908, it is "likely" he was in the Broughton Rangers team against New Zealand on 19 October 1907. He didn't make the Great Britain team, as this consisted of 7-English, 5-Welsh (including his club teammate George Ruddick), and 1-Scottish (his club teammate Andrew Hogg) footballer. As Broughton Rangers won all but one of their six honours between 1896 and 1911, it is "likley" he will have contibuted to at least some of these, the Challenge Cup wins of 1901–02, and 1910–11, are likley to be the easiest to research. I shall look though my reference books, and see if I can find anymore information. Do you have any information regarding, e.g. full name, year of birth or death, position played, other clubs played for, etc. as any clue would help. Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 09:02, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Percy Williams

You wouldn't happen to have any information on Percy Williams (rugby league) would you? Regards Mattlore (talk) 22:35, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Hello, DynamoDegsy. You have new messages at Mattlore's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

New book

You may have noticed from my recent hackings at James Valentine (rugby union) that I have a new book in my arsenal, a who's who of English rugby internationals. If you have any other articles where you are unsure if the player turned pro in 1896 then drop me a line and I'll try to see if I can answer your query. Cheers FruitMonkey (talk) 11:42, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Here's one for the new book… George Marsden (rugby) won 3-caps for England (RU) in 1900, i.e. after the schism, and he also won a cap for England (RL) in 1905 whilst playing for Bradford (now Bradford Park Avenue A.F.C.), but which club was he at when he won his England (RU) caps? Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 10:03, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Show off =;oD Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 10:24, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

The wonder of books. Apart from not being able to spell Fylde. FruitMonkey (talk) 10:27, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Another one for you… where was Harry Bedford playing his club rugby when winning his England caps of 1889 and 1890? I have a Batley versus Morley R.F.C. conflict. Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 12:12, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

I have no information of him switching to League. He was Morley for all three of his caps, so I think he was Batley first then Morley. FruitMonkey (talk) 14:28, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Repeated links

Hi there, I don't know if you've got a script running but I've noticed you adding some unnecessary repeated links in text. See WP:OVERLINK if you need to read up on when and when not to add links. Brad78 (talk)

Fair enough about updating redirects, but in some cases you've corrected a redirect where no link existed in the first place and incorrectly or unncessarily changed the text. Brad78 (talk) 22:44, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I only noticed one or two on my watchlist and changed them and noticed you were doing similar on other articles though not all, that's why I wondered if you have a slightly errant script running. By the way, there's actually no need to correct redirects, and there's a policy somewhere or other which suggests it's actually incorrect so simply change the links. Brad78 (talk) 23:06, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Crusaders

Hi Dynamo, I've just seen all the work you've been doing with editing piped links (a lot!). With the Crusaders ones though, I noticed a few edits where you have changed pre-2010 articles to show just 'Crusaders' when their name was 'Celtic Crusaders' at the time. When a club changes its name, there's no need to remove the old one. It's probably better to keep it. LunarLander // talk // 19:23, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Hull

Hey, first of all, thanks for all the work you've been doing with the redirects! However, with the Hull FC -> Hull changes, in some cases might it be better to leave the text as Hull FC to distinguish the club from Hull KR? Obviously im Australasian based though so you might have an alternative view? Mattlore (talk) 20:38, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

My reasoning was that because of Hull F.C./Hull FC's historical lack of a "RL", or even "R" prefix to the "F.C."/"FC" to indicate rugby league, and including just the "F.C."/"FC" to Hull might infer an assocation football club, that might lead to confusion with the football club Hull City F.C./Hull City FC, I thought this would be more confusing than would be caused by the similarity of Hull to Hull Kingston Rovers/Hull KR. What do you think? Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 21:54, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi, Hull and Rovers/Hull KR is a fine way to distinguish them. It's similar to Dundee (FC) and Dundee United. Use of 'Hull FC' has become more common but use of Hull only shouldn't lead to confusion about which one of the two is being referred to. LunarLander // talk // 21:45, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

I think generally that makes sense, but you might need to watch out for some special cases: e.g. if the player has played for both FC and KR it might pay to leave the FC in? Not sure how your script works though and if that's do-able. Mattlore (talk) 21:59, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Script, script... what script this is all manual slog!!! Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 22:19, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Hehe, fair enough. wow, that's an even more impressive effort! Mattlore (talk) 22:21, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Talking of scripts, would you know how one would go about writing a script to change, e.g. [[Rugby league positions#Prop|Prop]] to {{rlp|PR}}? Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 06:37, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, not my area of expertise. The only little bit of wiki-related code I know is template related. Mattlore (talk) 08:33, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Redirects

Hello. Noticed you changing the link to Bradford PA at Jeff Hall (footballer). You may want to save yourself a bit of work, and have a look at WP:NOTBROKEN, which says there's no need to fix redirected links unless they're actually broken. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 12:31, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi Struway2, although not absolutely necessary, the process of fixing redirected links has identified ambiguous links to, e.g. Bradford F.C., which must be either Bradford Park Avenue A.F.C. or Bradford City A.F.C., some of which I've managed to correct, so it's not been completely futile. Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 14:03, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Fixing ambiguous or incorrect links is indeed a very constructive thing to do, please keep up the good work. All I was saying is there's no need to change links that may not point to the exact current name of the article but aren't ambiguous and do (albeit indirectly) point to the correct place. Sorry if I wasn't making myself clear. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 14:55, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Transfer fees

You would be right, all the money would go to the player. If the clubs took the money then they would be in breech of amateur rules and would be fined or punished by the Union. The money was meant to be a golden handshake to help the player and his family relocate to the North. Also my book fails you on Mr C Hall. It doesn't even give a first name. FruitMonkey (talk) 16:46, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Nice update to Rowe Harding. The article supporting the cite is pretty interesting too. I was particularly amused to see under 'Black Moments', "Bonnie Tyler leads choral singing at Cup final". I think she did the same injustice to the Reading Festival a few years earlier. FruitMonkey (talk) 07:17, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Football v Footballer

• I see that you are changing internal links in many articles from Footballer to Footballer. I am wondering why as they both have the same target? I'd also urge you to use a edit summary. Regards Paste _{Let’s have a chat.} 13:27, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Dick Thomas

Unsure, but I think probably unlikely. The match he played for Wales XIII was on 19th Jan 1909, and he then would have played another union international against Scotland on 6th Feb. Even if that was missed at the time, I'm sure sporting historians would have made the connections that he broke the code. No mention in my books either. FruitMonkey (talk) 12:05, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Transfer Fees

I'll leave it for you to format, but thought this would interest you, I've paraphrased; The first overseas transfer occured in 1911 when Riki Papakura was cleared to play for Warrington and the 20 pounds fee was forwarded to the Rotorua sub-league.from Coffey, John. Canterbury XIII, Christchurch, 1987. p.16. Mattlore (talk) 07:43, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

To be clear, that probably means NZ-> Overseas not first international transfer anywhere - but who knows! Previously all NZ players going to English/Australian clubs had been as individuals because there wasn't an administrative body to pay fees to. Mattlore (talk) 07:54, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

• The Canberra Raiders paid $37,200 for Brent Todd in 1986. From Coffey, p.214. Mattlore (talk) 08:30, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Rupert Edward Inglis

I came across this rugby player when "researching" his father John Eardley Wilmot Inglis, who was a hero at Lucknow and another son John Inglis (cricketer, born 1853). There are several other eminent members of this family, some with Wikipedia articles. Can you point me in the right direction so that I can also create an article on Rupert, who was killed in WW1. Thanks for any help. -- Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 19:06, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Sam Houghton

OK, that's Houghton covered, and I updated Bevan a few days ago too. Penydarran / College Park is more of an issue. I need to get back to the library to dig out the book I first used to see why I kept referencing it as College Park. Give me a few days on it. Cheers FruitMonkey (talk) 11:31, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Wick Powell

Robert Gate's "Gone North" has Wick Powell playing for Rochdale Hornets, do you have any other details of this? The reason I ask is there appears to be a Rochdale Hornets' player named W. Powell who played for Other Nationalities, the article states circa-1921 which is too early for Wick Powell, but I'm not sure how reliable that date is. It just seems unusual for there to have been two Welshmen at Rochdale Hornets named W. Powell. Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 10:45, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

OK, there are two Wales rugby union internationals called Wick Powell. Wick Powell stayed an amateur throught his life, but Wickham James "Wick" Powell who picked up four caps in the 1920 Five Nations Championship, running in two tries, captaining Cardiff for 1919/20, switched to Rochdale in 1920, playing his first match on 4 Septemebr 1922. He appears to have returned to Cardiff in 1922 to set up as a licensee. All links up.FruitMonkey (talk) 18:26, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Other Nationalities

I believe I got the information from RUGBY LEAGUE MISCELLANY published in 2009 or 2010. Best of luck. Poiuytre (talk) 15:13, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Arthur Lees (rugby)

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File source problem with File:F. L. Roffey - Wigan.jpg

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Nomination of Shane McNally for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Shane McNally is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shane McNally until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

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William Walton (rugby league) = William Walton (rugby union)?

I'm wondering whether William Walton (rugby league) is actually the same chap as William Walton (rugby union). They're certainly in the same era, and William Walton (rugby union) played for England in 1894 just before the 1895 schism. Would you have any information? Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 08:01, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

ESPNscrum.com has William Walton's death as 1 June 1940 in Wakefield, so I believe it must be the same chap. But if you have any further information, it'd be greatly appreciated. Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 12:46, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Yep, same guy. Interestinglty enough it states he was a licensee who played RU for Castleford and Yorkshire. He switched to Wakefield in 1895, scoring their first try under Northern Union ruleson 21 Sep 1895 in a 15-9 win over Belle Vue. FruitMonkey (talk) 17:15, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Can you please check something for me? I don't believe the mention of "Belle Vue" can mean Belle Vue Rangers, as they were known as Broughton Rangers until the 1945-46 season. I'm wondering if the reference actually means Belle Vue Stadium. Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 13:48, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Sorry my goof, it should be 'over Wigan at Belle Vue'. FruitMonkey (talk) 13:53, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Huddersfield Giants Hall of Fame

I can't find a single source for the Template:Huddersfield Giants Hall of Fame Inductees on the internet. Can you?--Jeff79 (talk) 04:30, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Hi Jeff79, I sourced the template from Page-6 of Fartowner - A Celebratory look at 25 years of Huddersfield Rugby League Club Players Association by David Gronow (grandson of Benjamin Gronow) & Mick Rhodes, the Hall of Fame is housed in the Galpharm Stadium. I've added a quoted-out reference at the head of the template. Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 11:43, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Brian Nordgren

Hi DynamoD, do you have any info on Brian Nordgren? Played for Ponsonby+Auckland before transferring to Wigan in 1945 with Ces Mountford and played for Other Nationalities against France. Cheers, Mattlore (talk) 07:33, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Topic - Airblue

Thanks for your information on this article, but we must do it simple in order to read and understand. I did some edits and it is currently good. Thanks for your support --Mohamed Aden Ighe (talk) 21:15, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

why?

Why are you "fixing" links to owl monkey and such? The redirects seem to be OK. Dicklyon (talk) 07:34, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

I realise the redirects work, but I believe it creates a shabby user experience when having clicked on a link from another Wikipedia article, a user gets, e.g. (Redirected from owl monkey) message. Fair enough, if a user types in, e.g. "owl monkey" into the search dialogue, and they are then redirected to "night monkey", then that's okay, but as there are already 9-redirects for one type of monkey, all of which can be used by cut 'n' pasting ad infinitum, I believe using the actual article name promotes more elegant user experience. Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 07:58, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Please don't do that. WP:NOTBROKEN, as you've been told before. Dicklyon (talk) 15:53, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

WE ‘Billy’ Williams

I can't remember if I've asked this question before, but if I didn't, I meant to... In the Welsh stars still had a rugby ball in wartime, there's mention of a WE ‘Billy’ Williams, would you have any details on this chap? As a Billy, I assume the the 'W' of the 'WE' stands for William... nothing gets past me!!! Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 08:43, 5 August 2011 (UTC) Ooh, I've just had a cheeky look in your archive... a little forward of me I know, as we hardly know each other... and I have asked this question before, but over a year later and you're yet to respond!!!

"In the Welsh stars still had a rugby ball in wartime article at WalesOnline, there's mention of a WE ‘Billy’ Williams defecting to the 13-a-side game, I don't believe he's; William Edward Osborne Williams, William Henry "Buller" Williams, Billy Williams, nor William "Billy" Arthur Williams. Any idea who he might be, and what club(s) he played for? Cheers. DynamoDegsy (talk) 14:56, 15 May 2010 (UTC)"

Hmmmm, how about Billy Williams? FruitMonkey (talk) 09:10, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

I'll take a look at that page at lunchtime, I can't get onto sports related sites during works' hours... they actually expect me to work during works' hours... the very cheek of it. Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 09:14, 5 August 2011 (UTC) That looks like the fella, but I have a couple of queries; first, how did manage to find him so quickly? The blackandambers website doesn't seem that easy to search!!! and second, the 'Welsh stars still had a rugby ball in wartime' page infers that he had already defected to rugby league, but the blackandambers website has him at Newport until 1947, and the 'Victory International' matches took place between December 1945 and April 1946, so wouldn't he have still been a rugby union player at that time? Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 14:42, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

If a player switched to league, the chances are they came from Swansea, Newport, Cardiff or Llanelli, therefore I have the black and ambers site on my favourites here and books for the other three. If the player was with the likes of Neath or a Valleys club I hit problems. Luckily, in places such as the Rhondda, you got frog marched to the train station if you had a Yorkshire accent so that forced the scouts to the major cities. I have W. E. "Billy" Williams playing for Newport against the Kiwis on 29 December 1945 and for Monmouthshire against the Kiwis on 27 February 1946. I think the report is incorrect in stating they had already switched. FruitMonkey (talk) 15:43, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

"frog marched to the train station", is that what's meant by ♫We'll keep a welcome in the hillside, We'll keep a welcome in the Vales♫ ?!?!. Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 13:25, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Does this help? Programme scan RichardLowther (talk) 21:44, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Alanfromwakefield

Hi, sorry for not replying sooner – but I’m a bit new at the Wiki write/edit and didn’t realise the “talk” tab was live. Looking at your output, you look as though you’ve been a bit busy.

Anyway, yes, I’m interested in R L history Have been interested in the game since I saw Billy Stott, on the Beverley Beers lorry, in Wood St (or could it have been the Bull Ring) lift the challenge cup trophy Unfortunately shortly after that my father, who worked for P&B was transferred ‘up North’ to Darlington, where RL is an “unknown word”. Consequently, for the rest of my life, it’s been a bit difficult getting hold of any info on the game. Even our newspapers have different sports Pages from yours. So the “from Wakefield” bit meant born there. Once I’d finished adding pages for the “missing” defunct clubs, I had thought of :-

• a) Adding the wartime seasons/leagues – but I can’t find many details on the September 1918 to Jan/Feb 1919 period, when a wartime league commenced but never finished and no table was produced - when a peacetime league began and ran from Feb to summer
• b) Details of the challenge cup competitions, not just the final – but there’s a great scarcity of details
• c) Disappearing clubs and club names – like
• i) Salford (bankrupt and new club Salford (1914) Ltd was formed)
• ii) Bradford Northern (1968) Ltd who took over 6 months after Bradford dropped out of the league midway through the season
• iii) Huddersfield Barracudas
• iv) And many more

Not forgetting Wakefield Trinity recently! RichardLowther (talk) 21:45, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

It may be a bit difficult working together but I’d certainly be willing to assist and/or listed Alan Mountain “from Wakefield” Alanfromwakefield (talk) 18:22, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

If you can remember Billy Stott then you must be a little older than me, were you born in the 1930s? I was named Derek back in 1964 in reference to Derek Turner, who I coincidently called 'round to see last week, to ask him, his wife and son (Darren) to check through his Wikipedia article. There's a sentence on disappearing clubs and club names in the articles Salford City Reds#20th century, Huddersfield Giants#Decline and revival, and Bradford Bulls#Bradford Northern: 1907-1963, but an expansion wouldn't go a miss. By the way, who are/were P&B? Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 07:51, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Only just – in 1939 – and Baptised “the day war broke out” – I got the blame for that as well

P&B was Paton and Baldwins – with the mills at Thornes and The Rutland Mill (now the Hepworth ??) built (apparently) on the site on which the Duke of Rutland fell during the War of the Roses – which I don’t remember http://www.wakefield.gov.uk/cgibin/MsmGo.exe?grab_id=0&page_id=12513&query=rutland%20mills&SCOPE=www.wakefield.gov.uk&hiword=MILL%20MILLED%20MILLER%20MILLET%20MILLING%20MILLION%20MILLIONS%20mills%20rutland%20

Thanks for info on the “deceased” clubs, it matches my scribbled noted from years ago. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alanfromwakefield (talk • contribs) 08:48, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Coats PLC merged with Patons and also later took over Jaegar If memory serves me right, Jaegar had a shop within a shop in Darlington’s “Binns” (later Houser of Fraser) department store But enough of that Sorry don’t think I can help on other Nationalities, except we went to a match at Odsal in the 1970’s to see Other Nationalities v New Zealand?? together with another 124 people. At half time my cousin went to the Gents and asked us if we would keep his place on the crash barrier, talk about peas rattling in a tin can !!! It wasn’t many years earlier when I’d watched Wakefield and Featherstone play there in front of 75,000 + (stood on the ash ground behind the goal and we All, en masse, slithered forward when the crowd moved. Those were the days. Health and safety wheer were you ?

County rugby – I have the Rothmans yearbooks 1990-91 & 91-92 and John Player yearbooks 1974-75 & 75-76 which has fixtures, venues, teams etc. and gives title winners from each year Lancs 34, Yorks 24, Cumbria 16, Cheshire 1 and Undecided (glad I don’t live there) 2 The usual stuff, which I’m sure you’ll have If you haven’t I’ll gladly scan and e-mail them to you

Somewhere I’ve also got the Daily Worker Football yearbook 1947-48 with a quite good section on rugby league, but I can’t find it. Alanfromwakefield (talk) 13:07, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

I'm supposed to have answered you and sent this, but it appears to have "disappeared" Coats PLC merged with Patons and also later took over Jaegar If memory serves me right, Jaegar had a shop within a shop in Darlington’s “Binns” (later Houser of Fraser) department store But enough of that Sorry don’t think I can help on other Nationalities, except we went to a match at Odsal in the 1970’s to see Other Nationalities v New Zealand?? together with another 124 people. At half time my cousin went to the Gents and asked us if we would keep his place on the crash barrier, talk about peas rattling in a tin can !!! It wasn’t many years earlier when I’d watched Wakefield and Featherstone play there in front of 75,000 + (stood on the ash ground behind the goal and we All, en masse, slithered forward when the crowd moved. Those were the days. Health and safety where were you ?

County rugby – I have the Rothmans yearbooks 1990-91 & 91-92 and John Player yearbooks 1974-75 & 75-76 which has fixtures, venues, teams etc. and gives title winners from each year Lancs 34, Yorks 24, Cumbria 16, Cheshire 1 and Undecided (glad I don’t live there) 2 The usual stuff, which I’m sure you’ll have If you haven’t I’ll gladly scan and e-mail them to you

Somewhere I’ve also got the Daily Worker Football yearbook 1947-48 with a quite good section on rugby league, but I can’t find it. Alanfromwakefield (talk) 09:36, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Dai Fitzgerald

To Quote the Who's Who of Welsh rugby, "Dai Fitzgerald was an agent for a coal company before working as a storeman. He joined the Leigh club in 1895, shortly before the schism, which led to the founding of the Northern League. In February 1896 he joined Batley..." Can't get more clear then that. Interesting play by the way, though unsurprising it fails to tour further south. FruitMonkey (talk) 16:51, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Bradford Dungeon

Hi. You're absolutely right. I should not have retracted my original request for deletion. I've restored it so feel free to add a comment on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bradford Dungeon (fan made). Best, Pichpich (talk) 14:00, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

James Valentine (rugby)

Sorry, no further light on this one. I can confirm that Maule does state 61 tries, but I have no further books that back up this information or challenge it. FruitMonkey (talk) 19:26, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Brian Kinsey

Hi Derek, have you anything knowledge of Brian Kinsey, Featherstone Rovers 1957 - where did he go to play after leaving Rovers, if anywhere? Thanks RichardLowther (talk) 17:30, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

New Page Patrol survey

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Rugby player page moves.

Degsy, Where is the consensus for the mass page moves? This has been discussed in the past and no consensus reached, so why the moves now? I think it would be better to discuss this at WP:RU before continuing. noq (talk) 15:02, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Oh and please do not move pages by cutting and pasting content from one page into another. This should not be done as it loses the history. noq (talk) 15:09, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

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noq (talk) 15:23, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Henry Wigglesworth

Not much on this one I'm afraid. The only additional information I have on the player was that while a unionist, he also played county for Yorkshire, representing them six times, making his debut against Northumberland. Nothing about his league career at all. Regards FruitMonkey (talk) 17:03, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

William Evans (rugby, born 1883)

Hi, I was wondering why you moved this article to the present title. Looking at the category of Welsh internationals, I see both formats are used, but it seemed there were more in the original format of this article i.e. with 'player' Has there been some discussion on this? Regards. Eldumpo (talk) 17:07, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the note and link to discussion. As you suggest, there was not really consensus on this, so I have moved it back. I think when you need the year disambig as in this case, it looks a bit odd to just say rugby and then have a comma. If you're using a birth year it seems intuitive to add 'player'. On another topic, thanks for adding text to Fred Hughes, as per talk post #65 above. Regards. Eldumpo (talk) 12:16, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

St. David School

St. David School (Richmond, California) an article that you have participated in editing has been nominated for deletion a second time, the first time in in 2006 resulted in no consensus and it can be reviewed here. The current disucussion on the removal of the article is located here should you wish leave your comment.LuciferWildCat (talk) 05:04, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

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SIC

Hi! About this edit

Thank you for making a good faith edit. However it was not correct to make. The title of the reference work has a typo. This was indicated with " [sic]" which means "it is as stated"

Thank you WhisperToMe (talk) 23:03, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

George Bennett

Struggling Degsy, he didn't play for any of the big four. My books all draw a blank; I do have some Bennetts playing for Newport, Llanelli and Cardiff but all during the wrong period. To be honest if you weren't playing for one of those clubs you didn't get much chance playing for Wales no matter what your skin colour, especially at the glory positions at half-back, fullback or wings. I'm not sure where to look next, I'm not confident that he would come from a valley's club as the communities there before the war were so white. There's London Welsh, or maybe one of the dock teams such as Penarth or Pill Harriers, they did get players into the national team. I'll keep my eyes peeled for him. FruitMonkey (talk) 20:02, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

It doesn't help much. If he was good enough to break into the national team he wouldn't be playing for a club in the north of Wales, as the selectors never went to the north to watch players. For example, by 1975 Cardiff had not once played Welshpool, Talgarth, Brecon (the header northern delights of Brecon), a team from Anglesey or even a Wrexham club. He would need to be playing down south to get recognised. Couldn't find anything in my London Welsh book either. FruitMonkey (talk) 19:12, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you

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WikiThanks

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