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November 17

Perfidy? In Tom Clancy's Red Storm Rising

In Tom Clancy's Red Storm Rising, the Russians invade Iceland by landing from the civilian barge carrier Julius Fucik. My question: According to international law, would that be considered a legitimate ruse, or would it constitute perfidy? 24.23.196.85 (talk) 02:27, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've not read the book, but the essential component of perfidy is to actively persuade the enemy that your intentions are peaceful when they're not, rather than just hiding your hostile intentions. Disguising a military ship as a civilian ship is perfectly legitimate - see Q-ship for an example. Tevildo (talk) 13:22, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It really depends on whether they have declared war on Iceland. If yes, ruse, if no, perfidy. Looie496 (talk) 16:04, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Well, invasion of a neutral country constitutes the war crime of aggression, irrespective of how the invasion is managed. However, I gather from the book's plot summary in our article that hostilities had already commenced at the time of the invasion, and the objective was to neutralize a NATO air-base. Tevildo (talk) 18:33, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, I forgot to mention that the ship was disguised as an American freighter (I was about to add that part when the question disappeared). Does that change the answer? 24.23.196.85 (talk) 02:03, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Our article on ruses of war is more lenient than a 1999 book on humanitarian issues ion war, which says it would be perfidy to use enemy or neutral flags on vessels or insignias on uniforms in a fight. That book cites international conventions on rules of war and seems to indicate that it is perfidy to fly a different flag from one's own when launching an attack. The book says a legitimate ruse would be to have 2 of your airplanes, with your own insignia, have a simulated dogfight to induce enemy planes to approach, and then shoot them down, but it would be perfidy to have a simulated dogfight with enemy insignia on one of the planes. Also, our article says that spying is ok, but the book says that there is no right to be in enemy territory in civilian clothes or the enemy's uniform and that doing so takes the spy outside the protection of legitimate military operations and makes him subject to criminal punishment. In WW2, the German saboteurs who landed by submarine in the US in Operation Pastorius were executed for being enemy agents in civilian clothing, in violation of the US "Articles of War." Skorzeny, whose Germans infiltrated the US forces in US uniforms in the Battle of the Bulge, claimed that they were going to display German uniforms before attacking, which sounds like a lame defense, but which worked in court, despite the fact that his men kept US uniforms on while killing Americans. In an exception to typical "victors' justice," Skorzeny was given leniency when British testified that they too had fought in the opposite side's uniforms, per Otto Skorzeny#Post World War II. Edison (talk) 15:38, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Cutting down a giant redwood

In this image, men are seen cutting down a redwood tree. Once they cut it down, how would it be milled? I wouldn't think that they could move it once it was felled. So would they mill it in place some how? Dismas|(talk) 06:13, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Presumably they would cut it up into movable/millable pieces.--Shantavira|feed me 07:52, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
(ec) According to this 1946 short, Redwood Saga, they're cut up into manageable pieces and taken by truck or railroad to the mill. Clarityfiend (talk) 07:54, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you both! The video was interesting! Dismas|(talk) 08:07, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

location of Mexico

I was reading an article about pepitas and you wrote: " in Mexico and other South American countries........". Since when is Mexico a South American Country? Mexico is a North American country along with Canada and United States. Why the United States does not want to recognize that Mexico is in fact part of North America? Their official name is United States of Mexico. I hope in the future you refer to Mexico as North American country. There is North America, Central America and South America. The culture of Mexico is not similar whatsoever to that of South American countries. Please correct that assumption, as many people turn to you for answers to your questions. Thank you.

Mrs. Julieta R— Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.228.130.253 (talk) 18:06, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I see someone has already changed the term to Latin American. You should feel free to make such changes yourself in the future (assuming it wasn't you who did so here). Also for future reference, a question like this would go on the talk page for the article itself, rather than here at the ref desk. We help with research, rather than editting articles. Finally, I removed your identifying information per the guidelines at the top of the page. μηδείς (talk) 18:28, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It has said "Latin American" since at least as far back as 8 August. Which version of the article are you looking at? We are talking about Pepita, right? -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 18:34, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Our article on World Storytelling Day did use the phrasing but has nothing to do with pepitas. A bunch of external sites do say "La Quinceanera is celebrated in Mexico and other South American countries" and also mention pepitas but we obviously have no control over said sites and they aren't actually primarily talking about pepitas. Nil Einne (talk) 20:37, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
When an otherwise presumably reliable source makes a mistake like that, we are not compelled to quote it. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots23:04, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think any of the other sources I saw using the term and referring to pepitas looked reliable so I hope none of them are used in any of our articles. Nil Einne (talk) 07:15, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Also note that it may be grammar error rather than a geography error. That is, they might have meant to say "...and other nations, which are in South America". StuRat (talk) 21:57, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's rather obvious, given the OP's supposed name, this was a matter of someone pulling some legs. μηδείς (talk) 05:27, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Explain, please? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots12:27, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Find the diff that established this thread and look at the info that was excised. μηδείς (talk) 18:25, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

New Business

Based in the UK, I've been selling a few bits and pieces online for a while now, but I think it's past time I officially registered as a business, started filling in tax forms and all the rest. Except, I have no idea how to go about doing so, who to talk to about it, or even who to ask to find out who to talk to... Anyone help?

213.104.128.16 (talk) 21:19, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The best person to talk to would be a lawyer or an accountant, and we're not permitted to give legal or financial advice here. However, this is the official site for VAT registration, and this is the official site for information on Company formation. Tevildo (talk) 21:51, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Let the OP be warned this is legal advice we cannot provide professionally
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
The most urgent task is to register with HMRC (some advice and links here or using this form). You might be interested to read this guide (from a company whose software has official approval from HMRC, and with whom I have no connection other than using their software). Dbfirs 22:54, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Registering with HMRC is the only thing you actually have to do, unless you need to register for VAT. If you set up a business bank account the bank ought to be able to give you some general business advice, although the way the banks are going now I wouldn't bank on it. Itsmejudith (talk) 23:38, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
We can especially not tell someone that X is all he has to do to comply with the law and protect his business. μηδείς (talk) 01:51, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It's true that we cannot advise you on what you ought to do, or what you must or must not do. However, this link got caught up in the removal of advice above. It's HMRC's official guidance leaflet for anyone wondering when and how to register their business activity for tax, NI and (possibly) VAT, and is a good starting point for your own research. - Karenjc (talk) 09:27, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
So many different people I have to talk to about different things, they don't make it easy do they. Thinking I might pay a visit to the local Citizens Advice Bureau, might they be able to offer advice and put me in contact with the right people? 213.104.128.16 (talk) 01:30, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Just make sure you don't accidentally knock on the door for the Citizen's Abuse Bureau. They are not likely to provide the help you need. μηδείς (talk) 04:01, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Your best bet is to contact your local Chamber of Commerce. I also had half an hour of free advice from an accountant when I was setting up. --TammyMoet (talk) 13:19, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

MotoGP bike vs top production motorcycles

How do the motorcycles used in MotoGP compare to high-end production motorcycles such as the Ducatti 1198 in terms of performance? I apologize if this is a silly question, but I know next to nothing about motorcycles.

In Formula One, the engine has to be rebuilt after each race and the cars are significantly faster than production road-legal cars. Is this the same case in MotoGP?

Thanks Acceptable (talk) 23:40, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Just see what a gp can do to a superbike… and multiply it by something!
Iskánder Vigoa Pérez (talk) 16:29, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]


November 18

Recalled DePuy Metal on metal hip&metallosis

Sorry, Wikipedia cannot give medical advice

I do not have health insurance thanks to our lovely Government.I have a Depuy metal on metal hip.It was put in on nov.2006.Last year i went for annual checkup& plasma test.The previous year i went in and got x-rayed he needed to give me an MRI.Got the Mri he said i was forminga bag around my implanted hip. He told me he was Recomended not to do revision surgery at this time.This year on my annual Checkup he took just an X-Ray.Gave me the Plasma Test,Then told me to come back in 2 Weeks and we will talk about getting a new hip with a larger femoral head. well i went home all scared thinking i will have to have revision surgery.Convincing my self i may feel a lot less pain i was on board with it. went to my appt. He tells me i will not get revision surgery.Told me my bag around hip was gone and my metal levels have stabilized.Is this even possible or should i be looking for another surgeon.2 years ago he needed an mri to see this bag now with just an x-ray this year he tells me the bag is gone. My other Question is my urine is redish ,brown,orange I Almost have had Diarea for about 8 months Am i ok? Is this one of the symptoms Of metal poisoning?COBALT and Chromium is what my hip is made of.I am sorry to bother you but i have no where to turn to with out med.Ins.Except to a lawyer.My name is Rick .I thankyou very muchEven if you dont help.And thankyou for the dr oz show i watch it at least 4 times aweek. 70.162.20.74 (talk) 00:40, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Street addresses in the United States

One often sees on tv, movies etc. addresses such as "2589 Green Street", even in small towns where it is inconcievable that there could be over 2500 separate properties on Green Street. The numbering is obviously not simply sequential, so how does it work? Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 07:56, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Some explanations are given in our article on house numbering, subsection "United States and Canada". ---Sluzzelin talk 08:16, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The street only needs to be 2.5 miles long. If 911 standardized addresses are used, then the house is 2.5 miles down from the "start" of the road, usually a major cross-street or landmark. As a former pizza delivery driver, this makes it really easy to find houses in the dark that don't have their number visible/lighted. Dismas|(talk) 09:01, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 09:21, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Suburbs of large US cities will someimes adopt the numbering of their central city, resulting in some absurdly high numbering of addresses and of streets themselves. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots13:03, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Although there are vexing counterexamples to that, such as the SF Peninsula's El Camino Real, which keeps the same street name for 30 miles as it runs through a dozen different cities - but the street numbers reset at each city boundary. Worse, as the whole road is a uniform medium density conurbation, it's easy to miss the modest signs denoting one has entered in to a new city, only to be perplexed that addresses have inexplicably jumped back or forward by several thousands. If they kept a uniform numbering between cities, then the addresses would get up towards the 30,000s, rather than 4,000s several times over. -- Finlay McWalterTalk 13:41, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That would be why some metro areas' suburbs have conformed to the central city grid system. That works better where there actually is a grid. The situation you describe might well match the famous Peachtree Street which meanders all over Atlanta and its various suburbs. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots16:04, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The answer is fairly simple. Americans like to think in terms of "blocks" - which is the stretch of a street between two consecutive cross-roads. They assign either 100, 1000 or in a few cases, 10000 numbers to each block - then number the buildings consecutively within that block. So a typical street will have 1000, 1001, 1002...1024, then a jump to either 1100 or maybe 2000 at the start of the next block. I think the idea is that city planners often lay out a grid of streets without deciding how many buildings there will be in each block. If someone wants to start erecting the very first building on (say) the 5th block - then what should it be numbered if you don't know how many buildings there will be on the 1st through 4th blocks? The idea of assigning a chunk of numbers to each block more or less solves that problem. You number your new building 5000 - and there is 'room' for up to 1000 buildings on each block. This can lead to annoyingly large house numbers - it's common to see 4 and 5 digit house numbers on streets that have less than 100 buildings.

But it can get messier than that. My house is numbered 1105 - and it's the 20th house on the first (and only!) block of the road! The house numbers start at 1000 - but jump up in a rather incomprehensible fashion along the length of the street. I suspect that they wanted to allow for the possibility of a future cross-street, so technically, we're the 5th house on the 1100 block...even though there is no cross-street where the numbers jump from 1015 and 1100.

In the UK, where this practice is not followed, you get into all sorts of problems when extra buildings are squeezed in to an existing street - you often see a letter appended to the house number so that two adjacent buildings can be 23a and 23b. The US system has the advantage of 'future-proofing'.

Another quirk happens when someone decides to extend a street. If it's extended at the high-numbered end, you just add more numbers - but if they have to extend it at the low numbered end, there is a problem - and that's why you get "East Main Street" and "West Main Street" - presumably because the former "Main Street" had to be extended off to the west at some time in the past. This gets even more silly when it's extended again, and you'll see "New Main Street" and "Business Main Street".

SteveBaker (talk) 17:43, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Yes the block I grew up on started numbering with 1000, although it had only 40 or so homes. The Main street off which my street branched started numbering with 100, and ran rationally numbered up to about 800. μηδείς (talk) 18:18, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The next house after that was 801+√2. --Trovatore (talk) 18:26, 21 November 2013 (UTC) [reply]
My parents bought their house in the 70s at beginning of the street. At the time, lots were large and the gaps between the major cross streets were quite large (1/2 mile) they had a three digit address, but over the years density increased, so the municipality solved the problem of having addresses in between by tacking on a 0 onto the end of house numbers on the south side and 1 on the north, thus gaining the ability to go from 100, ,101, 102 to squeezing in five houses in place of one: 1000, 1002, 1004, 1010, etc. depending on the side of the road. Mingmingla (talk) 18:21, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Address numbers may also appear uneven if the land was originally surveyed with smaller or different property lines. For example, if a stretch of road was originally surveyed with 30 foot frontages and then the developer decided to shift things around and make them 50 foot frontages, they may decide to "keep" the numbering by skipping one or more numbers between houses as needs require, so that the house numbering goes 64, 66, 72, 74, 78 and so on. It gets even messier if the opposite side of the street also has been resized. And then there's the case of the house my mother grew up in. The address was 24, which is mundane enough, but totally unlike all the numbers around. As it turned out, she was on a double lot, but the "doubling" was front-to-back because at one point it had been planned to build a side street running the length of her yard. That had never gone past the planning stages, but nevertheless the property was given that number and simply had it wedged into the set of addresses surrounding it. Matt Deres (talk) 02:05, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
One good reason for the East Main Street and West Main Street that SteveBaker mentions is that many US towns and cities were built around train stops. So you have a train depot/station in the center-ish of town and the town grew around it. Since the train tracks run through the center of town and you have streets that run perpendicular to those tracks, it's logical to name the street the same thing on both sides of the tracks and differentiate one from the other by calling one East Main and the other side West Main. That way you don't run into the trouble of starting numbers at some arbitrary point. The point that the numbers start at is where the street crosses the train tracks. They start at 100 on either side and go up.
Having East and West also makes sense because if you find yourself on East Main and know that the address that you're looking for is 500 West Main, you know exactly what direction you need to go. If the street names changed on the other side of the train tracks (or whatever center line the town uses) then there's less order. Let's say Main turns into Elm Street on the other side of the tracks and you need to find 200 Elm Street while you're on Main. You have no idea where Elm is even though you just need to go straight down the street you're currently on. Dismas|(talk) 02:33, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The block system of street numbering is in use in most of the United States, but generally not in New England or eastern New York State, where most cities and towns don't have a grid, and numbering is more or less sequential without much regard for cross streets. (That is numbering is much the same as in most European countries.) Where the block system exists, it often refers to a virtual grid, such that if a street begins one mile west of the center of the grid, it is likely to begin with a street number like 1001 or 10001. Marco polo (talk) 22:56, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Stagg 3/4 electric upright bass

It has what looks like a strap button at the back of the neck near the heel. What is this intended for? Surely. not for playing like a guitar!!--109.144.189.53 (talk) 17:03, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It certainly looks like the kind of "snap" connector that you'd connect a strap to. I don't see why someone shouldn't play it like that. I recall that great scene at the end of the "Master and Commander" movie where the doctor plays his cello like a guitar (IMAGE HERE) - and that instrument was a good deal more unweildy than an electric double-bass. SteveBaker (talk) 17:31, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Ive got a stagg and tried it horizontally__ its just impossible to play that way partly because of the radiussed neck. Any other suggestions as to its use..?--109.144.189.53 (talk) 17:38, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The strap might have just been to aid in moving it, not for while playing. This would allow people to avoid touching the more vital components, getting their skin oil on it, etc. StuRat (talk) 19:56, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
According to "Mateybass" at talkbass.com:
"For all those who've been wondering why there's a strap button on the Stagg, if you have a guitar strap, connect both ends to this button, wrap it around your body over one shoulder and underneath one armpit and shorten it. If you have the hip brace in, you can shorten the strap sufficiently to pull the brace into your body, this will then enable you to lift the whole bass up without hands and walk around whilst playing it in the upright position. A locking strap nut might be advisable though."
Another participant there, "horstenj", replied
"I tried this and it actually works quite well. I'm not so interested in walking around but it takes a decent amount of stress off my left hand as now I don't have to support the bass anymore to keep it upright." [1].
---Sluzzelin talk 23:42, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]


November 19

Graduates

How many degree graduates get a job which doesn't require a degree? Are there any statistics on this? 82.40.46.182 (talk) 00:03, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It might help someone with expertise in this topic if you specified a country you're interested in. --Dweller (talk) 00:55, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The OP's IP address geolocates to Liverpool in the UK. But I don't know if that helps. There are too many reasons why a graduate may end up in a job that doesn't require a degree. In some cases it's because a degree may help someone do a better job, but isn't compulsory. I had friends at uni studding agricultural science. Their aim was to go back to dad's farm, and run it well. But anyone can be a farmer. Another fellow student majored in Maths and IT, and became a rock star. Another played cricket professionally for a while, then applied his degree to a job ten years later. These are very hard to track statistically. HiLo48 (talk) 01:07, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The OP might also want to consider the fact that some people work in fields unrelated to their degrees. There are many people who have a degree in some liberal art like dance, graphic arts, or music but they couldn't find a job in those fields and took a job in an office somewhere and now do accounting. Of the four people in my own family with degrees, only one of us is in a field that uses that degree. Dismas|(talk) 02:42, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
A point to consider is whether "require" means that a job actually needs someone with that qualification, or merely that the employers specify it as a condition of employment.
When I read for a degree (and dropped out) about 1 in 10 school leavers in the UK went on to university, now it's around 1 in 2. It seem to me unlikely that the actual number of jobs unperformable without a degree has increased to this extent, but specifying a degree as a prerequisite enables employers to cut down the potential number of applicants for a job, making their selection process somewhat easier.
Incidentally, 20-odd years ago I managed to obtain and successfully perform for a time a job (Science & Technology Desk Editor for a prestigious book publisher) which if advertised now would certainly cite a degree as a necessary requirement (which is why, following redundancy, I am no longer employed in that industry, but in an accountancy related function, per Dismas above). {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 212.95.237.92 (talk) 14:21, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
According to this BBC article, it's 47%. I'll see if I can find a link to the official ONS data. Tevildo (talk) 19:46, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
There we go. Plenty of bar charts, pie charts, stacked cumulative distributions, etc etc. Tevildo (talk) 19:48, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Longest time between Murder & Arrest

Today in Australia a man was arrested for the kidnapping, and suspected murder, of a girl over 30 years ago. [2] This caused me to wonder, what is the longest known time between a murder and the arrest of a person eventually convicted of the crime? 220 of Borg 06:57, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I was going to suggest Whitey Bulger but it looks like, if I skimmed the article well enough, he only went 29 years between murder and arrest. (Not that 29 years is a short time but I'm using "only" in comparison to OP's claim of 30 years.) Dismas|(talk) 07:13, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know whether you count them, but Nazi perpetrators such as Erich Priebke and Karl Hass weren't convicted until over 50 years after their crime. ---Sluzzelin talk 07:25, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
16th_Street_Baptist_Church_bombing#Later_prosecutions notes that 2 suspects in the 1963 quadruple homicide weren't arrested until 2000. That's 37 years. StuRat (talk) 07:33, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for answers, so far. @Dismas, I edited 'Whiteys' page when he was caught! @Sluzzelin, yes I thought the Nazis might feature prominently, though I was thinking more of 'individual' murderers, rather than mass genocide. @Stu Rat, that's one that may be near the top.
• One reason for the delay is likely that there was a person convicted on circumstantial evidence, that was later overturned. The person arrested has been suspected for 20 years, so perhaps not such a surprise.
• I imagine that most jurisdictions have no statute of limitations on murder, so the answer could be up to 60 years plus? 220 of Borg 09:51, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Richard Keiper arrested 45 years (44 years 363 days, to be exact) after the murder of Alfred Barnes: http://edition.cnn.com/2013/10/18/justice/texas-cold-case-arrest/ .
The article Death of Maria Ridulph states It is believed that the case involved the oldest unsolved murder resulting in an arrest in the United States. Killed in 1957, suspect arrested in 2011, 54 years later. Not sure if they got the right person, he suposedly told cellmates about the murder, but the stories didn't match the facts; the last words of his mother on her death bed, reported by his sisters, but there was some kind of family feud.. A witness picking him out of a photo line-up, 55 years after the facts?? Lot of detail here: http://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2013/08/us/oldest-cold-case/ Ssscienccce (talk) 12:27, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
54 years thank you, Ssscienccce. 220 of Borg 23:38, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I think this would be a good topic for a list article since the media seems to not know either. Perhaps something like List of murder convictions from the longest unsolved murders to account for the conviction part. I found August 21, 1992 47 years passed between when Michael Leslie Hodgson was arrested for the killing of Theresa DeCourcy "is believed to be the longest span in North America between a murder and an arrest." Not sure if he was convicted. -- Jreferee (talk) 14:09, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
47 years! Thanks Jreferee. Do you have a source you can link to for that 47 year murder? Note also that we do have a List of unsolved deaths. - 220 of Borg 23:38, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Information on the Theresa DeCourcy killing can be found in the archives of the Sault Star (Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario). Although authorities received a confession from Hodgson 47 years later, it was ruled inadmissible so he was not actually convicted. The only items that can be found on the site (without going to Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario) is this one and this one, which recount the case with reference to other stories. Also, the alleged killer was "Leslie Hodgson." "Michael Leslie Hodgson" appears to be another resident of the region with legal entanglements. The original story from 1945 can be found online in this Ottawa newspaper. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.174.182.87 (talk) 17:23, 18 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Earlier this year, a man was convicted of murder 33 years later. It was always known that he'd committed the murder, but the case required his then-wife to give evidence against him, and that required a law change.[3]-gadfium 20:52, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
33 years, Thank you Gadfium. 220 of Borg 23:38, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

National September 11 Memorial - Is there an emergency exit?

National September 11 Memorial - Any possibility to survive a fall?

Just a hypothetical question: Lets say a child falls in one of the memorial's pools. Is there any emergency exit? Are the pools deep enough to survive a fall? And if so - how to escape from the pool? For me it looks like there is even no hanger or something one could hold to not falling even deeper into the hole in the middle of the pool. And by the way: Does anyone know how it looks there in the hole? Is there a possibility to hang on something? Or is it just a large soil pipe? --Zulu55en (talk) 09:21, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This page says that the pools are 30 feet deep. It also has a photo looking down into one of the holes. It looks like there's a solid bottom down there, although the photo was taken during construction so maybe it doesn't look the same now. --Viennese Waltz 10:24, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No. It says that the waterfalls (around the sides of the pool) drop 30 feet.--Shantavira|feed me 08:27, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Same thing. I'm talking about the pool, not the hole in the middle of it. --Viennese Waltz 10:22, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I think Shantavira's point is probably that the source doesn't say that there is 30 feet of water in the pool which seemed to be implied by your 30 feet deep comment. Definitely it was how I read it before these replies, and don't think anyone is talking about the hole. As I understand the source, the top of the water level in the pool is (roughly) 30 feet below the top of the pool where the waterfalls start. The depth of water in the pool remains unknown but it was from what an tell, one of the OPs questions.
Although I wonder if the source is actually mistaken and it's 30 feet from the top of the pool (where the water fall starts) to the real bottom, with the drop of the water something in between; from the pictures we can guess at the upper end. Note that if this is what you meant by '30 feet deep', it's still not what the source actually says, regardless of whether it's right. I saw another source which did suggest 30 feet from top to bottom. If this is the case, if we could find the real drop of the water, we could work out the depth of the water in the pools. (Conversely if 30 feet is the real drop of the water, we need to find out how high the pool is from top where the water starts to the real bottom.)
Nil Einne (talk) 18:46, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Judging by the picture of the empty pool here and assuming that's a man of average height standing there, I'd say the depth is at least 5 feet... Ssscienccce (talk) 12:49, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I found Memorial Manager Fired For Raising Concerns About Safety but his concerns didn't seem to extend to people falling in, except that there might be toxic algae in there. Alansplodge (talk) 14:11, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Generic drug pricing

I regularly buy some tablets over the counter at my local pharmacy (to treat the symptoms of a cronic complaint). Over the past couple of years the price of the same bottle has varied between about £3.25 and about £6.50. It hasn't just crept up in price - sometimes the price is low, sometimes it is high. When I asked the pharmacist about the wildly changing price - the latest change being well over 50% dearer than the last time - he said that's the trouble with generics, their prices can vary by a lot. Is there any truth in this and if so, why would the price vary so much? Astronaut (talk) 19:36, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This is entirely typical. You don't know whether it's being made in Scotland, the Czech Republic or New Jersey. The price of drugs like these is largely shipping and shelving mark up. I complained to my pharmacist he only carried small boxes of benadryl at 25c/pill. That was usually $60/mo. He looked in the stock and offered me 1000 pills, loose in a two-liter bottle at $16.00. I would keep them in the fridge and they lasted me close to a year, and he probably still made %100 on each bottle. μηδείς (talk) 22:15, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
As far as why the price would vary so much, this is a feature of a free market, where there are a small number of competitors. For example, if a new competitor enters the field and offers a lower priced version, this may start a price war. If a competitor drops out, on the other hand, then the price may go up. Shortages also drive prices up, while a glut will drive them down. When the med was still under patent, only one company could sell it, and could set the price at "whatever the market will bear". StuRat (talk) 10:00, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

November 20

Greatest time difference between a father's death and his child's birth

What is the greatest time difference between a father's death and the birth of one of his or her children? For now, I have found Henri, Count of Chambord, who was born about 7.5 months after his father's death/assassination. Is there anyone else (either famous or not famous) who you can find who beats Henri's record here? Thank you very much. Futurist110 (talk) 01:12, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Are you including frozen sperm and artificial insemination? Dismas|(talk) 01:15, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Not for this question. Futurist110 (talk) 06:40, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Checking out the details at Posthumous birth might bear some fruit (but not fruit of the womb). -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 01:16, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you very much. Futurist110 (talk) 07:38, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Alexandra Tatarsky was born five years after Andy Kaufman died. The asterisk beside that record is enormous, though. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:20, November 20, 2013 (UTC)
She appears to be a fraud. See here: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/actress-in-andy-kaufman-hoax-675432 Futurist110 (talk) 06:42, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Bear in mind WP:BLP issues here. From what I can tell, the link doesn't support it being a fraud. It suggests it may be a hoax or prank of some sort, possibly as part of some sort of performance art. Nil Einne (talk) 16:20, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Be it fraud, hoax or prank, it falls under the same umbrella of "humbug". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots20:47, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"Oldest time difference"? --Trovatore (talk) 18:31, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, the oldest time difference between a father's death and the birth of one of his children. This question of mine excludes things such as frozen sperm, artificial insemination, et cetera. Futurist110 (talk) 21:57, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Be nice, I'm guessing English is not Futurist110's native language. You know what he means. Marco polo (talk) 22:50, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, English is not my first language. What is the correct term to use here instead of "greatest time difference"? (I just noticed that I sometimes accidentally used the word "older" here instead of "greater", which is incorrect.) Futurist110 (talk) 05:13, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"Largest" or "greatest" work fine. "Oldest" would be Abel's posthumous child. Clarityfiend (talk) 08:37, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The longest in Posthumous birth appears to be 7 months. Rupert Inglis says: "He was the youngest son of Sir John Eardley Wilmot Inglis (1814–1862) (who died 8 months before Rupert was born)". According to the dates it was 7 months 21 days. Statistically there should be lots of cases with around 9 months. http://www.guide2womenleaders.com/womeninpower/Womeninpower1800.htm says: "Marie Ernestine (1803-72) (born 9 months after the death of her father)". The father was Kraft Ernst at House of Oettingen-Wallerstein#Princes of Oettingen-Wallerstein (1774 - 1806). PrimeHunter (talk) 01:46, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This old legal text mentions a baby born nine months and twenty days after the death of its father, and a claimed one born eleven months later, which was judged to be illegitimate - decisions of legitimacy likely to be a problem with any claimed record. Warofdreams talk 02:10, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
As you ask for the the greatest time difference between a father's death and the birth of one of his children, and not for the greatest recorded time difference, it is statistically obvious to me (from the sheer number of people that live and have lived on this planet), that once in a while a man will die during intercourse, shortly after an ejaculation that leads to the conception and subsequent birth of a child. Hence, the answer to the question will be the in the upper range of the possible duration of a pregnancy, counting from the intercourse (and not the last period), which would be approximately 40 weeks (average 38 + 2 SD = slightly more than 40 weeks). --NorwegianBlue talk 22:43, 21 November 2013 (UTC) Oops, I see PrimeHunter already has pointed this out. --NorwegianBlue talk 22:45, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Origin of this kind of gesture?

I have seen many images where men holding an authority and/or prestige position grasp the edges of their coat (those edges that are brought together when the coat is buttoned up) in their hands, or if they are not wearing a coat, grasp their suspenders in their hands. This gesture seems to have been especially prominent in the 19th century American Old West. It's invariably men who do this, and seems to be a gesture of authority and/or prestige. What is the origin of this kind of gesture? JIP | Talk 19:05, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This may simply originate in a technological problem. In early days, photography needed very substantial exposure times. Holding on to something with your hands makes it easier and less strenuous to keep the pose. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 19:22, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I think you'll find that in paintings also. It may have been thought to make them look more dramatic. (Think Napoleon). Although your theory might be the real reason. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots20:48, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Well, the need for holding a pose was even greater for painted portraits than for photos. Looie496 (talk) 00:35, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This pose is descriptively called "hands on lapels". I'm having trouble finding much information on it on the internet, but it seems to be agreed that it is considered to communicate confidence [4] (judge for yourself the reliability of that site). The internet is inundated with information on finding stock photos of men striking such a pose, and works that simply describe someone taking such a pose, so it's a little challenging to find something that actually talks about the pose itself. Someguy1221 (talk) 02:05, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
But if we bought the idea that this was to relieve the pressure to keep a pose for painting and old-time photography - then people in general would get the impression that this is how people in authority stand...because only people in authority would be able to afford a painter or photographer to make a formal portrait of themselves. So this may be a chicken-and-egg argument. SteveBaker (talk) 03:15, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Look! I've got a new coat!
Perhaps that pose originated when the subject had a nice new coat, and they were proud of it and trying to show it off. StuRat (talk) 04:31, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry StuRat, I couldn't resist adding the picture. Alansplodge (talk) 08:37, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Is the angel on the right (Justitia?) wearing a cloche hat? I didn't know they were fashionable in Gladstone's time. If not, what sort of hat is she wearing? Tevildo (talk) 14:00, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's a helmet (maybe a sallet?) to go with the breastplate. If you click the image to zoom in, you can see that it has a visor. Alansplodge (talk) 20:45, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
True, of course. Thanks for the name of the helmet. I just found the idea of an angel wearing fashionable clothing, especially fashionable clothing of a future decade, rather amusing. Tevildo (talk) 21:59, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It has just occured to me that this posture is commonly used by English barristers when presenting a case in court. I couldn't find a real barrister doing it (no photography in court) but here's a picture of the fictional Rumpole of the Bailey. Alansplodge (talk) 17:51, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

November 21

I have a loosely scientific question: If a 75 year old lady got somehow pregnant what kind of abnormalities could the baby have?

I know my question doesn't make much sense but I curious what would happen if a 70 or 80 something gal got pregnant and would there be a media frenzy......... Venustar84 (talk) 06:03, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well, there would be all the problems older women now have with pregnancies, such as the baby having a higher risk of Down's Syndrome, only magnified. Then there might also be risks from whatever fertility treatment was used to achieve the pregnancy. StuRat (talk) 07:20, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
From Ovary#Ovarian aging; note particularly the last sentence:

Although about 1 million oocytes are present at birth in the human ovary, only about 500 (about 0.05%) of these ovulate, and the rest are wasted. The decline in ovarian reserve appears to occur at a constantly increasing rate with age, and leads to nearly complete exhaustion of the reserve by about age 52. As ovarian reserve and fertility decline with age, there is also a parallel increase in pregnancy failure and meiotic errors resulting in chromosomally abnormal conceptions.

Such chromosomally abnormal conceptions could result in an embryo or fetus so nonviable or otherwise damaged as would cause a spontaneous abortion ("miscarriage") before a full-term pregnancy. This actually happens, with varying frequency not necessarily related to maternal age alone. -- Deborahjay (talk) 07:36, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You can read exactly what happens, or can happen, at Pregnancy over age 50. The oldest mother to date seems to have been 73 years of age.--Shantavira|feed me 08:21, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Sarah was 90. Assuming she was healthy, there would be no known effect due to her own age per se. μηδείς (talk) 22:56, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Does being old reduce the risk of any particular defects? If not, the baby's still open to any of the ones "normal" parents discover.
But yeah, there'd be a media frenzy, and that'd be abnormal from most childhoods. The parents would likely die while the kid's young, leaving no grandparents or aunts/uncles to take over. And probably no older siblings (why would an 80 year old want a kid if she'd already raised some?). So that'd be weird, living with Oprah. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:46, November 22, 2013 (UTC)

Corporal punishment in US schools

The information on 'Wikipedia' regarding USA schools in the southern and mid west does not address, or does not contain, any pertinent information regarding corporal punishment of students in those schools. In 19 states of the US this information is vital pertaining to the particular school referenced. How can this be resolved? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.215.39.6 (talk) 11:18, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Question header added AndrewWTaylor (talk) 12:08, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Have you read School_corporal_punishment#United_States - it seems to answer your question perfectly. SteveBaker (talk) 15:06, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This same question was asked this past summer. μηδείς (talk) 19:48, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
In fact, there are numerous questions about it, in the archives. And for whatever reason, this seems to be an area of special interest to Demiurge. The question is, which is worse: "Corporal" punishment? or "General" punishment? :) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots20:44, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I think I read about variants on "general punishment", including "Field punishment No.1" (it involved no blows or beatings of any sort) in a book about soldiers' experiences in World War 1. As for your second sentence, perhaps I'm an "international Human Rights maven", eh? --Demiurge1000 (talk) 21:04, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That's the hope. :) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots05:40, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
To the person originally asking the question: if you are a parent wishing to find out if a school under consideration for your child uses corporal punishment, it would be best to contact the school or school district directly and ask them. It seems highly unlikely that they would refuse or mislead such a request for information. If you are a child who may be about to be sent to such a school, it would be best to ask a parent or guardian to make such enquiries on your behalf. Wikipedia does not keep details of the discipline policies of every individual school and school district, as they change regularly and are not widely publicised. (Note that many U.S. school districts forbid corporal punishment even in U.S. states that permit it, thus the school will not have a policy on it, they will just follow the school district's rules.)
If you have trouble working out which school district a school is in, or something similar, we are a reference desk and we can certainly help with that.
Now for the rest of you :) No-one said that the same question was asked this last summer. I don't remember that question, though I do remember one on the same topic. Either way, it does seem natural that children, or their parents, in the 19 U.S. states that permit school corporal punishment, would potentially find this a topic of acute interest. Thus a recurring question is not surprising. (Though the wording of this one looks slightly pointed.)
The article linked by SteveBaker provides a large amount of information about the topic, but does not discuss individual schools, which appears to be what the OP was asking about. (It does provide a link to a website that collates all manner of related data, including current school rulebooks and handbooks that mention corporal punishment still being in use.) How to "resolve" the issue of Wikipedia not including such information is really a Helpdesk or Teahouse issue rather than a Refdesk one, but my suggestion is that it's not really practical to do so. (School articles have enough problems with being regularly updated as it is.)
I generally support the inclusion of reliably sourced information on this topic in articles on individual schools, but such information is most often not available. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 20:36, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
From a UK perspective, the fact that a school allowed corporal punishment would be a major positive selling point and plastered all over its website. Things may be different in the States, of course. Tevildo (talk) 20:43, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
BS: According to our article corporal punishment is prohibited in the UK. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 20:57, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Hence the <small> tag. Many people in the UK regard that law as undesirable, and would regard a school that offered corporal punishment - were it to be legal - as superior to one that didn't. I'm surprised that schools in the USA, where corporal punishment _is_ legal, don't regard it as something to be advertised. But, if it's not, it isn't. Tevildo (talk) 21:17, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Equally BS. Many people in the UK - I suspect far more than Tevildo's "many" - think that corporal punishment by either schools or parents is utterly despicable, and would certainly not go within a million miles of any institution that tried to practise it. Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:14, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
49% in favour, as opposed to 45% against, according to this 2011 survey. It's only one survey and may not represent the whole population, and I agree that a significant number of parents are opposed to corporal punishment, but not "far more" than those who support it. Tevildo (talk) 09:18, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the link, which disproves your argument. And mine. Clearly, opinions are divided. Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:40, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

AHA! "...your argument. And mine." Not "your argument and my." See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Language#Another_question_about_pronouns. μηδείς (talk) 19:49, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

But not "¶Your and mine argument". Tevildo (talk) 20:03, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
What would the international Human Rights mavens have to say about that? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots20:45, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Legal in 19 states? Jeez.. Ssscienccce (talk) 21:41, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Well, except for juvie in some states where they just kill you outright you won't find any news stories about it--it's just not an issue. You will occasionally hear of teachers taping and taping weird objects to gradeschoolers, but that seems to be more about the teacher than the punishment. μηδείς (talk) 22:21, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
There is no substitute for parental vigilance. Some parents consider their kids' teachers to be partners in the development of their children. Others regard teachers merely as babysitters. One possibly unintended consequence of corporal punishment, though: The lesson it actually teaches its target is that violence is a perfectly acceptable solution to solving problems. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots12:38, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This is the fourth time I have read that sentence, and the first time I realized you did not say, "There is no substitute for parental violence." μηδείς (talk) 17:19, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Effective, maybe (chopping your child's hands off is undoubtedly a very effective way to get him to stop masturbating). Perfectly acceptable, that depends on who's doing the accepting. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 17:43, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I think maybe you misunderstood. The child gets hit for doing something the teacher doesn't like. The lesson he learns from that is that if someone does something he doesn't like, he has moral authority to hit that other person. (Or shoot him with an AR-15, if available.) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots21:27, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, yes. There was some distance between "unintended consequence" and "perfectly acceptable", and I have an ever dwindling attention span. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 19:42, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
On a secondary issue, our lot would be in apoplexy if any of our news media were to apply the subtitles in that video. But these things are all relative. ;) Tevildo (talk) 22:32, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You might be interested to know that there are still some private schools in the UK that are fighting for their right to continue corporal punishment. See today's Daily Mail. Dbfirs 22:26, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

November 22

Bridge camera (not fujifilm)

is there any superzoom camera from canon, or sony, or nikon or pentax that have a lens system like the fuji hs10/20/30/50/xs-1?? Not saying the 30x or 50x or 1000000x thing, just the manual zoom and manual focus, a range over 25x even over 20x… and the build quality
I made this question some time ago, but again I got disconnected from the point&shoot world…
and viewfinder quality too
Thanks! Iskánder Vigoa Pérez (talk) 03:03, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Dates used in Wikipedia

I study biographies. I need to know about the dates used in Wikipedia, specifically, whether the older, Old Style (Julian calendar) dates have been converted to the New Style (Gregorian) calendar or not. What is Wikipedia's general policy about this, if any? This issue applies to all countries all over the world, I guess, but probably mostly applies to Europe. Tandava9 (talk) 03:08, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

WP:OSNS is the manual of style guideline. Generally they're given in whatever style was in use at the time, and if that's unclear it's specified. "Dates of events in countries using the Gregorian calendar are given in the Gregorian calendar. This includes some of the Continent of Europe from 1582, the British Empire from 14 September 1752, and Russia from 14 February 1918 (see the Gregorian calendar article)." Shadowjams (talk) 03:23, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I have read what the Manual of Style says about the dates given. And I have read the Wikipedia articles about the Julian calendar and Gregorian calendar (and other articles about dates and calendars). These are very good. But it is sometimes still not clear, at least to me, whether a certain given date is in the Julian or Gregorian calendar. It is all pretty complicated. Thanks for your response anyway.24.143.39.130 (talk) 18:10, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Specifically, which dates in which articles didn't you find clear? -- Finlay McWalterTalk 18:15, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Since Wikipedia articles are edited by thousands of different people at different times and places, only some of whom follow the manual of style and other guidelines, it is likely that the answer to your question will vary from article to article. In principle, every date in an article should come from a referenced reliable source, and if the article doesn't make it clear which calendar it uses, one should go to the source and check; but in practice many articles are not adequately referenced, or the sources may not be easy to get hold of; and I have no doubt that in some cases the editor who inserted the date was not even aware that there was an ambiguity. Sorry. --ColinFine (talk) 00:58, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Headphones ranking website

is there any site like, for instance, dxo is for cameras, but for headphones?
I have the beats monster tour since a year or less, but a friend that moved recently to the us just gave me a pair (from a brand that I had ever heard) and man they sound good, to me better than the beats, hands down, and this headphones seems to cost only 20 in amazon, in fact right now are options at just 12…
The headphones box has written: “wicked audio metallics 1954 made in china”…
he bought a player last week in a store at a gas station and as it came without headphones (oddly?) they offered him those for free
thanks... my last q of the week!! Iskánder Vigoa Pérez (talk) 04:32, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I found this place, head-fi.org [5]. For what it's worth, I've done well with Sennheiser, even with their lower-cost items. SemanticMantis (talk) 15:00, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

PT boat delivery

How were U.S. Navy PT boats delivered to the Pacific Theatre during World War II? Their small size and fragile nature indicates they could not have sailed from their construction sites in the U.S. on their own. Were they carried on other Navy vessels? If so, what type? Were they shipped whole, or disassembled and then reassembled upon arrival in the Pacific?    → Michael J    18:01, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This would seem to indicate they were shipped whole. MilborneOne (talk) 18:17, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. In an example detailed at Pacific Wrecks - PT-48 "Prep Tom / Deuce", three PT Boats being sent to the Solomon Islands were carried on the decks of two United States Navy oilers, presumably to a port large enough for the ships to berth, where they could be hoisted outboard as in the photo that Milborne has posted. They were then towed close to their final destination by smaller ships, in this case by two old Clemson class destroyers (which had been converted to destroyer minesweepers), finally completing the voyage under their own propulsion. Alansplodge (talk) 17:12, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Milborne's image is of SS Joseph Stanton, a Liberty ship - the boat was PT-109 commanded by one John F Kennedy. More details here. Alansplodge (talk) 17:19, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Place for additional chess queens

Where a second queen (and, possibly, third in case of second promotion) is normally kept during chess tournaments? Are there additional pieces in the same place just in case if a player opts for a knight, for instance? Brandmeistertalk 18:59, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A second queen is kept next to the board, along with all the pieces that are eventually captured, so the players have easy access to it. Tournament sets you buy will usually have extra queens as the only extra piece. Tournament officials will have spares of everything just in case: pieces, boards, clocks, etc. It is pretty rare for underpromotions to happen, and it would be even rarer for them to happen without first having one of your other knights/rooks/bishops captured first, so the extra queen is enough to cover almost all cases. Recury (talk) 20:54, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You're right though that (in principle) you need an extra 8 of each piece (except the pawn and the king) in each color in order to allow for all possible promotions. It's spectacularly unlikely that anyone will get to promote more than one pawn in a competition match - let alone the 8 theoretically possible maximum! It's even less likely that the player would choose to promote to a knight for the benefit of the moves it does rather than to the more generally powerful queen (although it does happen).
It's also (remotely) possible that someone might deliberately choose to promote to a weaker piece than a queen in the situation where choosing a queen would somehow force a stalemate in a situation where you'd otherwise be able to win. Hence we could theoretically see as many as 20 bishops or 20 rooks on the board at once! But keeping 8 spare white bishops in every set to allow for that record-breaking once-in-the-entire-history-of-the-game situation where this bizarre thing happens would be kinda crazy for even the most careful competition organizer. But for competition play, I'm sure they have enough spare sets to cover all eventualities (four complete chess sets - each with a spare queen would suffice). SteveBaker (talk) 23:12, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It is also possible to have a scenario where promoting a pawn to a knight delivers checkmate, whereas promoting to a queen does not, because a knight attacks a square that a queen does not. Mitch Ames (talk) 07:05, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Actual Full Mailing Address (w/zip code) of a Corporate CEO/Pres. et.al.

Having just downloaded your article on UnitedHealth Group only to discover that no where in it do you provide the corporate address for Hemsley, their CEO. in Minnetonka Minnesota. I wish to write him directly, can you help me?

My husband and I are both on Medicare and have different MediGap policies with UnitedHealthcare. Two days ago we received identical letters informing us that as of Feb. our primary care doctor (we've had for over 15 years) is no longer going to be in their network. They dropped him not vise versa. Those letters also tried to direct us to only one Dr claiming he was a primary care MD; it turns out that doctor is a Rumatologist and doesn't 'do' primary. He's also 35 min., away vs. 10 min. These letters claimed his address was in our town but, that location is only his sattlite office he visits 3 times a month.

UnitedHealthcare's web-site is opaque regarding actual mailing address'; ands when I asked several of their customer service people, they claim they didn't know it either.

Do I have to e-mail Ed Stych, Editor of Minneapolis/St. Paul Business Journal, and ask him if he'll tell me that address because the world's reference source - Wikipedia doesn't list it?

BYW, when you think about it, why shouldn't every article W has on all these corporations include this basic information?

Yours, B Sears — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.217.177.122 (talk) 19:52, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

66.217.177.122 (talk) 20:03, 22 November 2013 (UTC)I am looking for the correct full address of the CEO of UnitedHealthcare Group, based in Minnetonka, Minn. their own web-sites are opaque re: exact address', or any address really.[reply]

Shouldn't basic information such as corporate mailing address' be included in every Wiki article on any & all companies?

BonniS66.217.177.122 (talk) 20:03, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and not a directory or phone book have a read of Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not for more information. MilborneOne (talk) 20:15, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It looks like his address is:


9900 Bren Road East
Minnetonka, MN 55343 (http://www.venturedeal.com/Executives/Stephen-Hemsley-UnitedHealth%20Group-Chief%20Executive%20Officer-Profile) RNealK (talk) 23:20, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

November 23

Yellowstone Lake Location

Malware
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Where is this on the shores of Yellowstone Lake (as in GPS coordinates)? I know that it's between West Thumb (44.432, -110.584) and Bridge Bay. It's likely on a pullout with the road very near the lakeshore.

http://videobam.com/LGkUM — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doctorcherokee (talkcontribs) 07:04, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That page gives me a virus alert and attempts to install software on my PC.--Shantavira|feed me 09:44, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Recipe for sliced hot dogs cooked in ketchup sauce?

When I was young, my father used to prepare hot dogs by slicing them and then stircooking them in ketchup until the ketchup stuck to the slices. Now a cooking-deficient college student, I'm stuck in my dorm room with basically no food besides these two ingredients, and hoped to prepare this. But the internet doesn't seem to know what I'm talking about, I can't find recipes anywhere. Anyone know what I'm talking about, and do you have tips/instructions for preparing it? It sounds really easy to prepare, but I've had bad luck cooking in the past...--Ye Olde Luke (talk) 12:38, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This sounds vagely familiar. Have you checked the ref desk archives? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots13:37, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I tried several combinations of keywords, but couldn't find anything except conversations about whether it was a culinary sin to put ketchup on hot dogs. --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 13:59, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
OK, that must be the one I was thinking of. A joke. However, part of that discussion I think had the advice to "experiment". Try something and see how it works. It might turn out the way Pop used to make them or it might not. But either way, it should be good. :) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots14:05, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This is a recipe from Kraft for fried hot dogs with ketchup. It also requires butter, so it may not be exactly what you need. Tevildo (talk) 16:09, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oh Gosh, how times have changed! I thought student days was the time to meet the opposite sex (they number about 50% of the population). Give them a box of Cap'n Crunch and anything in the back of the fridge left by the previous occupants and they can conjured up something that would pass Le Cordon Bleu. We didn't have pizza deliveries to the campus in those days.--Aspro (talk) 16:42, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
To quote Captain Kirk, "Survival is the first order of business." Once the OP is nourished, then the OP can worry about finding a date. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots17:04, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hotdogs are normally already fully pre-cooked. You are just heating them and browning to taste by cooking them. I'd cut, cook and brown the hotdogs first, then add the ketchup near the end. Otherwise they won't brown. (Of course boiled dogs aren't browned, so you may just not care, in which case add the ketchup earlir.) After they are browned, add the ketchup (better to little than too much) and stir. This will help drive off the excess water more quickly, creating a paste.

Guinness records

In the Guinness Book of World Records, is there a record for having the broadest range of color vision? If so, who's the current record-holder, and how is this record verified? Thanks in advance! 24.23.196.85 (talk) 21:15, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]