Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement: Difference between revisions
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{{Re|HighInBC}} Hi again, I was not making excuses - only explaining my thought process. I understand that the rules are quite stringent, and breaches are inexcusable, and I was of course not going out of my way to break the 1RR rule amid an existing AE. If I had been alerted to the fact that other editors considered this edit an 1RR breach, I would have self-reverted without question, but I was not alerted and I was given no such opportunity. [[User:Iskandar323|Iskandar323]] ([[User talk:Iskandar323|talk]]) 08:06, 22 September 2021 (UTC) |
{{Re|HighInBC}} Hi again, I was not making excuses - only explaining my thought process. I understand that the rules are quite stringent, and breaches are inexcusable, and I was of course not going out of my way to break the 1RR rule amid an existing AE. If I had been alerted to the fact that other editors considered this edit an 1RR breach, I would have self-reverted without question, but I was not alerted and I was given no such opportunity. [[User:Iskandar323|Iskandar323]] ([[User talk:Iskandar323|talk]]) 08:06, 22 September 2021 (UTC) |
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{{Re|Deepfriedokra}} Yes, I immediately partially reverted by restoring the material that 11Fox11 first stated in the AE had been omitted. I was otherwise unaware which other material was being considered a revert and no full revert was requested. I was also unsure whether it was appropriate to perform a full revert after the AE had already been raised in case this could be construed as evidence tampering or attempting to mask the timeline of events from adjudicating administrators. By the time 11Fox11's broader concerns were stated, a full reversion of the material had already been made by Free1Soul. [[User:Iskandar323|Iskandar323]] ([[User talk:Iskandar323|talk]]) 09:36, 22 September 2021 (UTC) |
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====Statement by Selfstudier==== |
====Statement by Selfstudier==== |
Revision as of 09:37, 22 September 2021
For appeals: create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}
See also: Logged AE sanctions
Important information Please use this page only to:
For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard. Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions. To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}.
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Iskandar323
Iskandar323 receives a logged warning to take into account page and other restrictions due to discretionary sanctions--Ymblanter (talk) 18:18, 21 September 2021 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Iskandar323
The user was given a chance to self-revert and he still can but he refuses to do so[5]. The user also violated WP:NPA when he was told that he broken the rules. For me it seems that this editor is uncapable to edit is such area and should take a break to learn our polices. --Shrike (talk) 07:35, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
@Deepfriedokra:,@HighInBC: The user still in his WP:battle mode calling me an "antagonist" [6] The user clearly here to WP:RGW --Shrike (talk) 07:10, 16 September 2021 (UTC) @Deepfriedokra: I don't think I said that the user is "partisan" If yes could you please show me. Maybe you confusing my statement with Iscander[7] --Shrike (talk) 14:50, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Iskandar323Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Iskandar323I made one revert, and then, within the same 24-hour period, made a second, modified edit following on from a discussion in the talk section of the page, where the consensus was that the content I had added had been given undue weight. Duly noted, the modified edit reduced the weight of the content. This discussion was civil and did not involve the accusing editor in the slightest. The other editors involved in the discussion have not voiced their opposition or made further reverts, though one has made further edits that have not affected the modified content, suggesting that, for that user at least, the content produced as a result of discussion towards consensus was appropriate. I maintain that the accusing editor appears to have a shallow grasp of Wikipedia's good faith principles, and I mean this in no way as a form of personal attack, but as a call-to-action for the individual to learn and engage in more civil and less belligerent forms of dialogue on the platform. It is also worth noting that the accusing editor applied WP:PIA arbitration status to this article only after the discussions and edits in question, making the rather specific nature of his complaint somewhat retroactive in nature, but I personally do not think my good faith actions run afoul of the rules either way. I hope you will agree.
@Johnuniq: What is the difference between accusing someone of WP:RGW and of being partisan? The very notion of WP:RGW is that someone is taking a partisan approach. It is bureaucratic to imply that one is a personal attack and the other is not simply because one is couched in technical language. I am not implying that you are intentionally being bureaucratic, but that the distinction is a bureaucratic one. WP:RGW is just a sub-category of WP:TEND, which defines partisanship. If an AE, outside of the context of normal talk pages and user talk pages, is not the suitable forum for raising the issues of the WP:TEND tendencies of certain users, where is? @Johnuniq: But thank you for your clarification on the principle of concrete outcomes in criticism sections. Though I would ask if divestment (where actual sums are withdraw) is not, in of itself, a concrete outcome? You are also quite correct that I had not fully absorbed the implications of the alert notice posted on my talk page. @Johnuniq: In answer to your specific questions about the Bank Mizrahi-Tefahot articles, I am not hugely vested in it and do not particularly care about the outcome, and I will not be trying to re-add a fully fledged 'criticism' section header or 'Involvement in Israeli settlements' section sub-header, because I now better understand the point about weighting relative to the article as a whole. I did not come up with these section headers spontaneously, but merely replicated the format from other similar sections on other articles, trusting that the editors who placed them there knew what they were doing, but where, in hindsight, the relative weighting may have been a little different. It still seems to me that a divestment by a large fund, as reported by Reuters, is a concrete outcome, and my tendency would still be to include a sentence on it, but I am not emotive about it. I merely made an addition that I thought was notable, based on sources that I thought were notable, in a format that I replicated from the work of other editors on other pages. All that I objected to was the wholesale deletion of material, by and large without discussion, by other editors. @Johnuniq: If you haven't already, please do look at the edits involved in the twinkle episode yourself to decide whether I was undoing good faith edits or not. The title of that talk section is a highly leading one. I believe I was undoing disruptive edits that had re-instated information that was clearly incorrect by the standard definition of the infobox templates - a position another user quickly attested to. However, following the subsequent discussion, I undid the last revision all the same following the criticism and left it to others to edit out the demonstrably incorrect information if they so chose, which they did. Iskandar323 (talk) 03:51, 19 September 2021 (UTC) @HighInBC: Yes, I now realise the distinction between what I thought a revert is, and what a revert is in the technical definition you have mentioned. I had though that a partial re-edit of some of the same material in a different format and location, arrived at as a result of efforts to move towards consensus as per a discussion, was not a simple 'reversion'. But I now realise that the definition is quite broad and that its interpretation can be quite ironclad, particularly on articles perceived to be IP-related, even if they don't contain an edit notice. I also don't think it was totally unreasonable for me not to have understood absolutely all of this prior to this arbitration referral. @HighInBC: I'm getting the hang of the 'comment on the content not the editors' mantra as well. I had assumed that personal attacks meant actual insults, defamation or slander, but not the questioning of motives or truthfulness, but clearly, here too the Wikipedia definition is either very broad or very open to interpretation. I'll admit to getting a little emotive on the subject of my own persecution. But is it also not a problem for editors to demonstrably falsify formal statements in an arbitration forum? NB: Let me once more state plainly that, while I was not aware of and certainly did not fully comprehend the 1RR rules with respect to this conflict area prior to this AE being called, I do now understand the 1RR rules quite clearly, as well as the general principle behind the 1RR and its general merit as a means of de-escalation in all circumstances, as well as the benefits of pursing a more thoughtful, civil and WP:BRD-informed editing approach. Iskandar323 (talk) 17:14, 16 September 2021 (UTC) Statement by 11Fox11The edit notice is a technicality, and Iskandar323's conduct is sanctionable without the 1RR. They are edit warring in the face of talk page consensus against them and engaging in personal attacks and commentary. On Zakaria Zubeidi they reverted three times: [9][10][11] (and some reverts of IPs). On Bank Mizrahi-Tefahot they also reverted multiple times: [12][13][14], when consensus was against them at Talk:Bank Mizrahi-Tefahot#Hugely undue addition. To this one must add the personal attacks: [15] and [16] against Shrike when notified of 1RR. They also think the 1RR rule doesn't apply to them. 11Fox11 (talk) 08:38, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
Statement by SelfstudierUsually we give newer editors the benefit of the doubt, I think an informal warning is sufficient in this case.Selfstudier (talk) 09:24, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
Statement by Zero0000To editor Shrike: According to WP:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel articles, an editnotice is required for the General Sanctions to be enforced but Iskandar323 does not have the technical ability to add one. Zerotalk 13:26, 15 September 2021 (UTC) @Shrike: Of course he should obey the rules, but nobody is obliged to add ARBPIA notices. I don't see what you want to take to ARCA as the rule about editnotices has been discussed by ArbCom before and they are unlikely to change it. Zerotalk 13:50, 15 September 2021 (UTC) Statement by GeneralNotabilityI'm very tangentially involved here, but wanted to add an observation (not specifically related to the AE violation in question). On 12 September, Iskandar bulk-added a "criticism" section to 30ish company articles (see here, look for the edit summary "Added section"). The bulk of these were added within the span of about half an hour. They were later mass-reverted as "Undue weight" by Mike Rothman2, whom I temp-blocked for undiscussed mass reversion and obvious attempts at permissions gaming. My concern is this: mass addition of "criticism" sections in this manner smacks of WP:RGW/POV-pushing, and I am concerned about whether Iskandar can neutrally in the topic area. GeneralNotability (talk) 14:03, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
Statement by Inf-in MDI'd like to draw your attention to recent comments by Iskandar323, where he describes this request against him as a "technicality", and despite the clear language used by Johnuniq below which says the criticism section is undue for the bank's article, that it is due and that there no "hard and fast rule" against it.[20][21]. Maybe a warning is not enough. Inf-in MD (talk) 15:46, 16 September 2021 (UTC) Deepfriedokra I think a ban is taking it a bit too far. My comment above notwithstanding, I find Iskandar323 to be one of the more reasonable editors with whom I disagree on most things. A formally logged warning coupled with his acknowledgment that he understands what he did and will not do it again should suffice. Inf-in MD (talk) 18:34, 16 September 2021 (UTC) Statement by NableezyWhether or not something is UNDUE is a matter for the talk page and the NPOV noticeboard, not AE. A user is free to engage wider input on a content dispute, what is needed here is the user acknowledging and agreeing to abide by our edit warring policies. This group of editors that all happen to be on one side of an editing dispute (mustnt call them partisans of course) agitating for a content ruling on a conduct board is a bit troubling, as is their insistence that said content dispute be used to remove an opposing editor. nableezy - 15:59, 16 September 2021 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning Iskandar323
Here since 2014 with 1672 edits is "newish"? --Deepfriedokra (talk) 18:01, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
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Xoltron
Indefed as an admin action --Guerillero Parlez Moi 03:09, 19 September 2021 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Xoltron
Discussion concerning XoltronStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by XoltronI am not sure what the purpose of this on-going attack, mostly on my talk page, against me is. All I did was start a discussion on a talk page in the Indo-Aryan Languages article: A long mislabeled article for a language group known correctly in Linguistics studies around the globe as Indic, as also mentioned in the same article. The next thing I know, several Indian editors start attacking me on my talk page instead of continuing the discussion on the article's discussion page and then this Arbitration request, for what? I do make a point to respond to editors that make personal attacks and threats (like Deepfriedokra , and numerous others) meant to intimate. Is that what this is about or ?Xoltron (talk) 22:33, 18 September 2021 (UTC) Statement by TrangaBellam
Statement by (username)Result concerning Xoltron
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Iskandar323 (2)
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Iskandar323
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- 11Fox11 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 14:45, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Iskandar323 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel articles-1RR
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 08:17, 21 September 2021 Revert of this edit
- 12:37, 21 September 2021 This "massive rewrite" reverts many edits, including this recent edit. Iskandar323's edit completely removed Daniel J. Schroeter's article in the The American Historical Review.
- 02:57, 20 September 2021, canvassing at page of like minded editor and personal attack ("it constitutes vandalism")
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- 19 September 2021 Consensus among admins to log a warning against Iskandar323 for 1RR and other issues.
- If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
Alerted and stated at AE on 17:15, 16 September 2021 that they "did not fully comprehend the 1RR rules with respect to this conflict area prior to this AE being called, I do now understand the 1RR rules quite clearly,"
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
This is a blatant 1RR violation. The page has an edit notice. This is coupled by canvassing and a personal attack, an issue at the last AE as well.
In addition, Iskandar323's talk page has a 20 September warning against edit warring on a whaling article and from 21 September a copyright/copying warning on a food article.
- While I do agree with some aspects of Iskandar323's edit such as removing the demographic information, the removal of Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries from the lead (left only in the body with the newly coined euphemism "ultimately left" in a pipe link) is objectionable. Furthermore, Iskandar323 edit contained reverts of several bits that were contested between himself and other editors on the article and talk page:
- Short description: Iskandar323 was reverted a few times, including here on 21 September, yet they removed "contested political" from "term".
- Likewise, in the first sentence of the lead Iskandar323 removed "contested political" from "term", a revert of this edit from 19 September.
- In the third paragraph of the lead, Iskandar323 was already reverted on 19 September which they now changed to "Reflecting the academic origins of the term, Jews with origins in Arab-majority countries do not often self-identify as Arab Jews" - while sources are quite explicit in that most Mizrahi Jews reject this term. Iskandar323 removed "The term is controversial, as the vast majority of Jews with origins in Arab-majority countries do not identify as Arabs, and most Jews who lived amongst Arabs did not call themselves "Arab Jews" or view themselves as such."
- If needed, there are probably more reverts hidden in this large edit that can be pointed out.
- This "massive rewrite", while containing some positive aspects, also reverted away material against the consensus of all other editors on the page. These highly POV reverts were hidden in the midst of this large edit 4 hours and 20 minutes after iskandar323's previous revert.--11Fox11 (talk) 16:52, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
- User:Deepfriedokra, they had a chance to self-revert after this report was filed. But they chose only to partially self-revert, returning the Schroeter reference but not returning the text that was there previously. I document in the note above several other recent edits which were reverted by this "massive rewrite", which Iskandar323 made a conscious decision not to self-revert.--11Fox11 (talk) 09:20, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
- notified
Discussion concerning Iskandar323
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Iskandar323
This is totally inaccurate. In the first example provided, I attempted to restore the infobox to the page after it had been deleted along with a host of other edits two days prior. This was reverted by 11Fox11, and I left it be. The second edit referenced is something completely different altogether and in no way a revert of prior edits. It was something I was working on in the background and is totally unrelated to prior edits on the page. I rewrote the page from the ground up, using academic book and journal sources to provide the beginning of an accurate, sourced background to the origin and use of the eponymous term of the page. It is just a beginning and more work and sourcing needs to be done, but it was a page rescue to push the content back towards the well-documented, peer-reviewed material on the nature of this term and the the academic framework that birthed it. It is possible that as part of this endeavour, some materials may have been removed or misplaced, but not maliciously. Wherever possible I have re-used and re-located all available sources to appropriate sections. Following the edit, I created a talk page entry explaining the rewrite and its purpose and inviting input and comment, so thank you to 11Fox11 for their engagement, although I wish they have simply pointed out any omission on the talk page, as my post invited. As of this moment, I have gladly re-included the source mentioned, and the section it concerns, "Politicisation of the term" is better for it. I still have not had much time to review this section and it still needs cleaning up. In contrast to the claim that I have set about to revert edits on this page, I have actually taken the page further in the direction that 11Fox11 was pushing when they removed the 'inappropriate' infobox. On reflection, I agreed that 11Fox11 was correct and also removed the related demographic information from the article. My edit was precisely aimed at steering the article away from the demographics of Jewish communities originating from the Arab World, which is covered in other articles, and back towards the topic of the specific term that this article addresses.
@Free1Soul: I had thought that books/journals without either a url or a doi constituted dead links. If this is not the case, it is possible that I used the dead link template inappropriately. I do now see that I tagged two archived links incorrectly, but you also removed at least one dead link tag from the definitely dead Voice of America story, as well as removed unaddressed citation needed tags, and removed the infobox again (without explanation). Iskandar323 (talk) 18:42, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
To editor Deepfriedokra: Hi again, and sorry for the trouble. I wasn't informed by 11Fox11 that they believed I had broken the 1RR rule prior to them raising this fresh AE, and Free1Soul has already rolled back that edit, along with others, so I cannot self-revert. Iskandar323 (talk) 18:48, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
To editor Deepfriedokra: Yes, I have been warned. I did not expect to get reported again before I had been warned, and it is playing havoc with the section redirects on this page, but yes, logged warning duly acknowledged. And had I been informed that someone believed I had broken 1RR again and been told to revert, before being reported, I would of course have reverted immediately. No questions asked. No administrators troubled. Iskandar323 (talk) 18:58, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
To editor Deepfriedokra: While we are on the subject of POV, and people taking offense, can I just draw you attention to where Free1Soul, in this talk page discussion that I raised to try to broach the subject of their more disruptive edits, such as deleting a stable infobox, not only used the N word in a deeply inappropriate and out of context manner (and frankly I find it offensive just seeing that on the page), but also compared a people being labelled Arab to someone being called the N word. Now I don't know about you, and I can't speak to the technicality of it, but I find that extraordinarily POV and offensive. Iskandar323 (talk) 19:12, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
@HighInBC: Reversion was never the intention of my rewrite, which was a painstakingly conducted effort based almost entirely on existing sources from within the extant article. The two principal sources I used were Gottreich and Levy, both of which were pre-existing sources in the article that I simply extracted material from. Sources that were recently added, in edits such as this, including Yehouda and Hannan (2012) and Tal (2017), were also carefully retained. In the complaint itself, the principle argument produced to suggest that this was not a rewrite, but a reversion, appears to be the removal of the word 'contested', as part of an edit numbering in the thousands of bytes (and incidentally a word that does not obviously have a source). Regardless, if this was the principle problem, then it was a simple fix. In the event, I was given no chance to self-revert, and the editor that raised this AE has still not even commented on the use of the word in the relevant talk page discussion. I do now certainly understand the point that Nableezy is making when he says, "if you have been reverted once, stop editing for the day altogether." Meanwhile, the edit that is being counted as the first revert involved the restoration of an infobox that was part of the article long before I had anything to do with it, was content that had nothing to do with me, and which was removed without consensus (and for which no consensus was reached in this talk). The edit in which this was removed, a day earlier was in fact far more sweeping than this, so at very best, this was a partial revert. Iskandar323 (talk) 07:32, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
@HighInBC: Hi again, I was not making excuses - only explaining my thought process. I understand that the rules are quite stringent, and breaches are inexcusable, and I was of course not going out of my way to break the 1RR rule amid an existing AE. If I had been alerted to the fact that other editors considered this edit an 1RR breach, I would have self-reverted without question, but I was not alerted and I was given no such opportunity. Iskandar323 (talk) 08:06, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
@Deepfriedokra: Yes, I immediately partially reverted by restoring the material that 11Fox11 first stated in the AE had been omitted. I was otherwise unaware which other material was being considered a revert and no full revert was requested. I was also unsure whether it was appropriate to perform a full revert after the AE had already been raised in case this could be construed as evidence tampering or attempting to mask the timeline of events from adjudicating administrators. By the time 11Fox11's broader concerns were stated, a full reversion of the material had already been made by Free1Soul. Iskandar323 (talk) 09:36, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
Statement by Selfstudier
At this stage could someone point out to me where on the talk page (his or the article) Iskandar323 has been invited to self revert the alleged 1R breach as per usual practice?Selfstudier (talk) 17:19, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
- In relation to the edit described in revert 1, could editor @Free1Soul: kindly explain the edit summary "(deadlinks miss placed. Provide citations and fix text)" in relation to the reverted edit, in particular the removal of tags and the infobox along with all of it's sources. I did see that, the following day, when Iskandar323 asked you to restore this material on the article talk page under the section "Removal of infobox and other unconstructive edits" it was only then that you (backed up by the complaining editor here) provided a variety of not entirely satisfactory after the fact explanations.Selfstudier (talk) 17:55, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
- I do not know whether Iskander323 intended to canvass me to his side of the discussion, we had been discussing one thing and another on his talk page prior so it is possible it was merely a continuation in the same vein. If it was a canvassing attempt, then it was a signal failure as I did not even visit the page, merely advising the editor to take things forward on the talk page which I now see that he quite properly did. Is it merely coincidental that we have the same three versus one situation as in the complaint just adjudicated? Selfstudier (talk) 19:00, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
- I have now had time to examine revert 2 and even if it was not the intent to revert, it is clear that is what has happened all the same. In mitigation, I do think the editor should have been given the opportunity to self revert, that is the custom.Selfstudier (talk) 09:04, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
- I do not know whether Iskander323 intended to canvass me to his side of the discussion, we had been discussing one thing and another on his talk page prior so it is possible it was merely a continuation in the same vein. If it was a canvassing attempt, then it was a signal failure as I did not even visit the page, merely advising the editor to take things forward on the talk page which I now see that he quite properly did. Is it merely coincidental that we have the same three versus one situation as in the complaint just adjudicated? Selfstudier (talk) 19:00, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
Statement by Free1Soul
Selfstudier, in this disruptive edit, Iskandar323 tagged around 20 refs as dead links. Most of those tags were wrong, either tagging live links (or links with archive versions) or tagging refs with no urls (books and journals), in which there was no url that was dead. Free1Soul (talk) 18:15, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
Iskandar323 is pushing his pov over and over in the page. He is not listening. Free1Soul (talk) 18:18, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
Deepfriedokra, Iskandar323 is not accurately portraying my comment. "Arab Jew" is a term that most Mizrahi Jews (the so labelled "Arab Jews") find offensive, this is what sources say. I did not use the N word. I said that labelling populations, that reject this term, as "Arab Jews" in the infobox was inappropriate - inappropriate in the same manner as adding a population box to the article Nigger (or for that matter Kike or any other offensive term that has an article on Wikipedia). The example article was one where it would be obvious a population box would be out of the question. The reasons why "Arab Jew" are offensive to us Mizrahim are complex and have many layers, but one important layer is that it erases Jewish ethnic identity, reducing the Jewish identity to a religion, putting those labelled outside the Jewish people and into a different ethnic group. Use of this term implies we are less Jewish than other Jews.
My point was that labelling people who do not identify themselves with this term in the infobox was unappropriate. Free1Soul (talk) 19:38, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
Statement by Nableezy
The argument about the N-word is obscene (Arab Jew is in fact a widely used term, objected to by some, not most as the bs above claims), and a user who thinks that is a valid argument to make should think carefully about accusing others of "POV-pushing". As far as the reverts, Iskandr, you need to slow down. If you get reverted stop editing the article for a day. Boom, never have a 1RR violation again. nableezy - 21:47, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
Statement by Geshem Bracha
Most Sephardic Jews object to this language. Nableezy links to a book by Shenhav who is one of the promoters of this language. Shenhav noted himself in an article that: ""it is not surprising that very few Jews of Arab descent, in Israel, would label themselves ‘Arab Jews’. It has turned out to be the marker of a cultural and political avant-garde. Most of those who used it, did so in order to challenge the Zionist order of things (i.e., ‘methodological Zionism’; see Shenhav, 2006) and for political reasons (Levy, 2008)" in [27] (taken from article).
Most (around 90%) Mizrahi Jews live in Israel. Shenhav, who promotes the term, says "very few" of them would use this label and that use of this label is a political marker.
This is a very loaded language to use.--Geshem Bracha (talk) 09:14, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
- @Deepfriedokra: parsing Shenhav, Mizrahi Jew using this language would mark himself as a post-Zionist or anti-Zionist. This is a small minority position in Jewish or Israeli politics.--Geshem Bracha (talk) 09:26, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
Statement by (username)
Result concerning Iskandar323
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- Note that I closed the above request about Iskandar323 with a logged warning; this occurred two minutes ago and, as of now, has not yet been communicated to the user.--Ymblanter (talk) 18:21, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
- I don't give a hoot about any content dispute and the quality of sources and content should be determined via discussion and consensus. My only concern is, not with who agrees with what, but did Iskandar323 violate 1RR since the first thread started? If so, could Iskandar323 please acknowlege the now logged warning, self revert, and we all get on with our lives? --Deepfriedokra (talk) 18:32, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
- @Free1Soul: In your own section, would you please post WP:Dif's of POV pushing? --Deepfriedokra (talk) 18:34, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
- @Free1Soul: Would it be possible to address concerns raised by Iskander? --Deepfriedokra (talk) 19:23, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
- Noting "Re-adding Daniel Schroeter source on Mizrahi activism". So that's a partial self revert. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 09:06, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
- As nableezy puts it, " As far as the reverts, Iskandr, you need to slow down. If you get reverted stop editing the article for a day. Boom, never have a 1RR violation again."
- @Geshem Bracha: I think I understand what "a political marker" means. Could you briefly elaborate on its meaning? --Deepfriedokra (talk) 09:19, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
- Despite the fact that the logged warning had not been given to the user at the time of the reverts, the user has had the 1RR rules painstakingly explained to them and they have acknowledged that in their previous(very recent) AE request. I feel this violation is actionable, we have already tried leniency and it seems to have not been effective. I feel they at the very least need a break from this topic area. HighInBC Need help? Just ask. 22:32, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
- Given their latest response[28] I am concerned this is a competence issue. It has already been explained clearly that "A "revert" means any edit that reverses the actions of other editors, in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material". They read it and said they understood it. Despite undoing the actions of other editors twice in 24 hours they are making excuses like lack of consensus or it was only a "partial revert". The 1RR is a bright line restriction and this has already been explained. My initial opinion stands that they need a break from area of sanction and now I am leaning towards a longer break, at least 6 months. HighInBC Need help? Just ask. 07:54, 22 September 2021 (UTC)