This is an archive of past discussions about User:Alexis Jazz. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
@Alexis Jazz: <bawl>Waaah, you didn't sign!</bawl> I suppose Bawl will do that for you. On a constructive note, I'd love to have the option to auto-add {{re}}. — JeffG. ツ00:25, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
Jeff G., way ahead of you. Currently Bawl auto-adds {{u}} (for enwiki, for other wikis the fallback is [[User:Example|Example]]) but I suppose I could make it customizable anyway. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 02:46, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
Jeff G., it's customizable now. Let me know if you use or test Bawl anywhere so I can search your contributions for any anomalies. I fully understand if you'd rather wait until it has been tested more thoroughly. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:08, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
1989, I moved some pages around and forgot to update the loader. Stupid mistake, should be fixed now. Sorry. Reply-link and DiscussionTools took years to develop, Bawl was created in about a month. It'd be weird if nothing went wrong. It's already good (when I'm not moving pages around like an idiot), but I call it early access for a reason. That being said, I'm using it right now, reply-link was unfixable and DiscussionTools.. well, also unfixable. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 18:44, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
That was not what was the cause. For some reason, when the section header was added, the icon next to the signature stopped showing up. I checked to see if it's conflicting with other scripts I have, it isn't. 1989 (talk) 19:00, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
1989, on which page? This page? Now still? What do you mean with "when the section header was added"? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:36, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
1989, can you open the settings? I've just added the version after "Bawl! 📢". If you don't see the version, you need to refresh your browser cache. (do a hard refresh on [1]) If you see the version but still have the issue, can you enable debug mode in the settings, open the browser console, refresh the page and copy/paste the last few messages? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:52, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, there's no need for that. I found the culprit. Under Appearances in the Gadget section, there's a toggle for "Add an [edit] link for the lead section of a page" that's causing it. 1989 (talk) 20:02, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
1989, thanks, I doubt I would have figured that out myself as that gadget isn't enabled by default. I fixed it, having "Add an [edit] link for the lead section of a page" enabled no longer crashes Bawl. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 20:32, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
1989, I haven't implemented that bit yet. Should have probably hidden the button instead of disabling it. Settings must be saved to a cookie for now. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 22:48, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
I did make changes to that but I think it works again. Or kind of. You regularly post multiple comments within the same minute and this triggers some new bugs. (comments are identified by section + previous username + username + timestamp but that's not unique when you post in rapid succession on the same indentation level) Welp. I have to think about how to fix this. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 04:04, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
1989, I see, I can probably fix that. For a quick fix, if you load unclutter with a delay it's fine. (var LoadUnclutter = setInterval(function () { clearInterval(LoadUnclutter); importStylesheet('User:Kephir/gadgets/unclutter.css'); importScript('User:Kephir/gadgets/unclutter.js'); }, 500); Btw Kephir: I got a notification of some unreachable code after a return statement, probably nothing major. It also doesn't seem to do everything it's advertised to be capable of (anymore?): the {{Calm}} notice was still visible when I tried it on Talk:Roald Dahl and Talk:Austrian School. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:44, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
1989, what do you mean? If you're asking about projects besides enwiki, Bawl isn't designed for enwiki specifically. Unlike reply-link (which flat out refuses to load on any project it doesn't recognize) you should be able to load Bawl on any project. It benefits from per-wiki configuration though and you could run into unexpected behavior on wikis that are very different from enwiki. In particular right to left wikis are untested and wikis with a timezone other than UTC won't work. (requires a per-wiki config, feel free to request) You can add mw.loader.load('//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Alexis_Jazz/Bawl.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript'); to m:Special:MyPage/global.js to load Bawl globally. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 15:43, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
1989, that's just a basic delay. Try running var Delayed = setInterval(function () { clearInterval(Delayed); window.alert('did I make you wait?') }, 2000); from the browser console or insert it into the <script> section in https://www.w3schools.com/js/tryit.asp?filename=tryjs_regexp_m and run it. The actual fix in Bawl (so you won't need to delay unclutter) will be different and I'll go look at that now. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 16:36, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz: Wow, works great now, thanks. By the way, I got a "wikitext unchanged" and "insertion point not found" error when trying to reply. 1989 (talk) 17:09, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
1989, "insertion point not found" also always triggers "wikitext unchanged" as without an insertion point your comment can't be inserted (because where would it go?) which would otherwise result in a tossed comment and a null edit. I tried to reproduce it by replying to the same edit you replied to using an older revision of this page which I had copied to beta cluster, but I couldn't reproduce it. However, I've added some more diagnostic info to the "insertion point not found" error so next time if you include that info there's a better chance I can figure out what went wrong. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 18:07, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
1989, I hadn't thought of that. Edit notices (like the one you linked) aren't always designed for a compact view. But something should be possible. (but it'll be opt-out for sure) Also note that enwiki puts edit notices for article talk pages in places like Template:Editnotices/Page/Talk:Goofy. By default edit notices can only exist in MediaWiki namespace which is just kinda stupid, resulting in non-standard solutions everywhere. This will require a per-wiki config. Actually it won't. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:44, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
1989, yes. Mostly for performance. (to stop Bawl from loading when reading articles) I made an exception for meta now. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 14:03, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
Wikiplus
For some odd reason, this script prevents Wikiplus from working properly. When clicking 'QuickEdit', a window is supposed to popup. Any ideas? 1989 (talk) 14:21, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
1989, cross-domain loading of a script (which you do in m:User:1989/global.js) is a really really bad idea. Even assuming you do trust the author, if they forget to renew their domain it could get taken over by, say, Wikibusines. That's probably why cross-origin resource sharing is already enabled on beta cluster which prevents Wikiplus from loading there. And there's a license issue. I'm guessing it's externally hosted because the license (Apache) is incompatible with Wikipedia's licensing. (https://creativecommons.org/share-your-work/licensing-considerations/compatible-licenses doesn't list Apache at least) And don't copy it to Wikipedia, I found two local copies that are now on MfD. I'd have to comb through the code before I'd consider loading it. If you open the browser console and perform the action, perhaps some JS error will pop up, if there is something and you share it I might be able to help. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 03:51, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
1989, but perhaps I can be of more assistance. I'm guessing that maybe you wanted to use Wikiplus to edit your comments. I just added that functionality to Bawl, hopefully alleviating that need. QuickEdit would still work on article pages I assume? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 07:24, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
Yes, and if there's a way for the editing button to load the previous comment to edit details, that would be nice. 1989 (talk) 16:19, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
1989, isn't that what it does? What do you mean by "previous comment"? The comment you're replying to, the comment you just posted (without reloading the page) or something else? If you mean the comment you just posted (using the "parse comment in place" option), that'll get fixed eventually but it's rather complex. (if you use the "reload" option you will get the edit link after posting though) — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 17:57, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
1989, I noticed Bawl also broke the reply-link from DiscussionTools. (there's no reason I can think of to use that and Bawl at the same time, but it shouldn't break) I think there's a fair chance Wikiplus/QuickEdit was affected by the same issue, which I just fixed. As you have Wikiplus installed, could you test if the issue still exists? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me)01:41, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
The issue is resolved. By the way, couldn't post my current replies with this script and debug mode isn't showing an error message. 1989 (talk) 16:19, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
1989, please ping me here. I don't get notified otherwise. Debug doesn't produce error messages, you have to open the browser console to see what the last messages where. That would give a hint as to what went wrong. A lot has changed in the last week and a bunch of new features are close to being added which may introduce some new bugs. Soon Bawl will have all the features I want it to have, after that I can better focus on stability. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 18:24, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
Odd edit summary section links
Your script seems to be formatting edit summary section links with a manual wikilink rather than using the /* */ syntax used by MediaWiki, which causes your edits to look odd in the history (blue section links instead of grey). It's also leaving you with fewer characters available for your summary. While I don't use your script and don't intend to, I'd appreciate it if you'd fix this so article histories don't have odd blue section links. Anomie⚔21:58, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
@Donald Trung and 1989: if you are missing some buttons (or more accurately: they don't show until you press a speech balloon, and only for the relevant section when you do that): this is the result of the new loader which I dubbed "fauxLoader". It's much faster (mostly useful on battery-powered devices and slow CPUs) and more improvements (that will add buttons back as well) will come, but if you hate it you can switch back to "Full link loader" in the "Links" tab in the settings. There's also another loader there that I added which I dubbed "NinjaLoader": you'll see no icons until you press a signature timestamp or section header. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 18:59, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, pings don't work for me at the English-language Wikipedia for some reason, I didn't get an e-mail about this, but thanks for the advice I will adjust the settings. -- Donald Trung (talk) 20:17, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
Donald Trung, I just added the section permalink/new subsection/edit section to fauxLoader. If the section isn't "active" (no edit links visible) you're supposed open the form to reply to yourself, then press the edit button that just appeared. Previously this action was not allowed (open form = no dice), but I made an exception for edit links which now close the existing form and open the edit form. I'm considering to add the reply icons to fauxLoader as well. Is there anything else you don't like about it? I made fauxLoader the default and it performs better in most regards, so any downsides you experience I'd like to know. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 21:17, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, unrelated to the above, but "in mobile" I see these link icons at section headers but I can't actually click on them, but then again I'm a beta-tester so I don't know if these are placeholder images for future features or bugs that need fixing. -- Donald Trung (talk) 21:30, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
You messed up! (username+timestamp T%C3%BArelio+12:51, 17 March 2022 (UTC) not found, seq: 0)
Replylinkparams: {"int":81,"type":"comment","subtype":"legacy","id":"BawlLegacy:T%C3%BArelio:12FTTCLN51,_17_March_2022_(UTC):CommonsFTTCLNVillage_pump","pageTitle":"Commons:Village pump","sectionTitle":"How do I contact Wikilegal at the Wikimedia Commons?","origReplyTo":"T%C3%BArelio","origTimestamp":"12:51, 17 March 2022 (UTC)","seq":0,"sectionseq":0}
Error occured at: 17/03/2022, 13:17:27 UTC
My settings: "Global"
Additional information: Username/timestamp combination not found. I think it might be because the other user in question had a diacritical mark in their name, though I will continue testing this. Not really handy for people blocked at the English-language Wikipedia to have this form here, maybe it could be handy at the MediaWiki Wiki.
I was right, the diacritical mark caused the error (funny message though), I will test to see if it also applies to non-Latin characters in general. --Donald Trung (talk) 13:21, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
What is interesting is that it only affects these. Not sure why your script converts diacritical marks into their unicodes while the WMF's tool doesn't. --Donald Trung (talk) 13:24, 17 March 2022 (UTC) Donald Trung (talk) 13:24, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
Yes, I was right, a Chinese character name on a Japanese-language post at the Commonswiki's help desk was converted into User:飯山橋 (written as [[User:飯山橋|]],), and I got the "awww, shit" message again, the current iteration of the script has issues with characters that aren't seen as standard in the English writing system. --Donald Trung (talk) 13:26, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
Donald Trung, I noticed you added four tildes to one of your messages here. Force of habit I assume, so Bawl filters those away now. I also added two alternative error reporting links: metawiki (for its role as a global community site) and Dutch Wiktionary because who the hell gets blocked on Dutch Wiktionary? I tried Mediawikiwiki, but it's not an option (unless I'd move out of talk space) due to Flow which destroys the error report. Btw, the reason for the original issue was that usernames get extracted from the link before the signature timestamp, in your case it would use the (talk) link. As a URL can't contain certain characters they get percent encoded. I just forgot to decode them. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 16:47, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, that I got, well I can't write URL's in Bawl anyhow, for example
Donald Trung, this is a feature and it's rather nice. Usually when you post a link, I have to manually alter it to not get the mobile domain which I don't like. Not anymore, your links are internal! This is only done for links on Wikimedia projects, the target for other external links is not changed. Links that already have brackets (like [2] or Bawl) are not affected either. Links that can't be converted to an internal link (like a Special:Search link with a bunch of parameters) shouldn't be affected either. This feature can be disabled in the settings (in the Editing tab there's the option "Rewrite external URLs to internal ones where possible, clean internal links") but I wouldn't recommend that. It appears that when reading this discussion on [3] your links, which are internal links, point to the non-mobile Commons domain. This is a bug, but not mine! phab:T304117— Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 21:52, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
I switch between "Desktop" and "Mobile" a lot, just because I use mobile devices doesn't mean that I use "Mobile" that much, I have to switch a lot to actually do the editing because the "Mobile" interface is very user-unfriendly.
its my comments. -- Donald Trung (talk) 20:00, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
What I find most interesting is how Bawl doesn't add spaces but "br" brackets to the code. Trouwens, als ik iets in de Nederlandstalige Wikiwoordenboek meld moet ik het dan in het Nederlands melden of in 't Engels?
Too bad that you haven't been able to fix the permalinking as I think that that would be a killer feature, but how would that work with archived discussions with a different page history? --
▮▮▮
Donald Trung, that character is a "BLACK VERTICAL RECTANGLE", see Geometric Shapes (Unicode block). I use it as a progress indicator (the title of the bar indicates the step that was just completed) but it's probably not really needed anymore. Don't care about language of error reports as long as I can understand or translate it. Bawl does add spaces, but no newlines, which is probably what you meant? One comment is always posted on a single line, regardless of contents. This has two advantages: makes my life easier (selecting a comment from wikitext just means selecting that line) and probably (but untested) makes the life of those who use a screen reader to read discussions easier. See Wikipedia:Colons and asterisks. Permalinks for sections work. Permalinks for comments placed with Bawl work. Permalinks for other comments are impossible unless I either rely on DiscussionTools (which is unreliably by design for this, and my ultimate goal is to replace DiscussionTools, so I can't rely on it) or require the person viewing the link to have Bawl installed, which isn't acceptable either. I could maybe do a fallback link that links the section for non-Bawl users and the comment for Bawl users. Or link the diff (like Convenient Discussions does), but that has downsides as well: reading a comment in the form of a diff isn't very appealing and if the comment was edited afterwards that isn't reflected in the diff. Permalinks work regardless of archiving as they link the current revision ID. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 23:05, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
Fuck, please tell me that those lines are not emoji's. --
Donald Trung, what do you mean "crashes"? The "awww shit" error? If so, follow the link to file the error report. I can reply to myself so without the report I don't know what happened. If you mean a different kind of crash, load the editor and instead of publishing open the settings and go to the "advanced" tab and press the new "Do not press this button" button. This will trigger an error so you can file the error report. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 22:31, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
Damn, you just triggered the primary shortcoming of fauxLoader (which I already knew about but considered sufficiently rare to ignore) with User talk:Alexis Jazz/Bawl (diff 1077710124): post multiple non-Bawl comments in different sections in the same edit. As fauxLoader saves time by only loading the links for the active section, it's oblivious to comments placed in sections above the current one. Bawl as a whole is oblivious to the number of sections and section titles when posting comments. So it doesn't care if a section title changes, which is common, or if archiverbot passes by while you're typing. I don't know if this caused your error though without more details. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 23:15, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
Somehow Bawl causes the last space to disappear when typing and that is extremely annoying. I managed to find out a work around by typing the last dot first but this just needs to be fixed. NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh02:33, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, sorry I didn't spot your report sooner! (I added a note now about pinging me to the top of this page, should have done that sooner) I assume you enabled live preview as I hadn't even noticed this before your report, but with live preview enabled that is indeed extremely annoying. Bawl automatically trims whitespace from the start and end but trimming whitespace from the end on preview, especially live preview, is premature. It's fixed now. For your second issue I need a little more information: can you link a page where this happens for you, which skin do you use (like Vector, Minerva, etc, see Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering) and which browser do you use? It could be an easy fix, but I need to reproduce it to find out. When you find this happening somewhere you can open the settings, go to the "Advanced" tab and press the button labeled "Do not press this button". This triggers an error, allowing you to file an error report which may help me reproduce the behavior. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 05:35, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
IIRC I was reading WP:VPT at the time I noticed it, but I think you can easily reproduce it by creating a comment in which your signature ends at the very end of the line. I'm using Legacy Vector on Chrome. NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh08:15, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, it appears to be a browser-specific issue. (which is why I hadn't noticed it) I think I fixed it by specifying display:inline-block for the icons, but if you still see it happening anywhere let me know and tell me which links or elements/forms are causing the horizontal scrollbar to appear. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 20:23, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, form should open in the right place now. I can't reproduce the jumping issue. What are your settings? You can get a dump of your settings easily by going to the "Advanced" tab in the settings, pressing the button labeled "Do not press this button" and filing the error report. Or you could save your settings publicly to your account. What could also help, if you're up for it, is to right-click this discussion, press "Inspect", right-click the <dd> parent element, copy menu, "Copy outerHTML" and share that. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 22:03, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
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NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, good idea, I changed the preload page. The jumping one solved itself? I guess maybe it was just a glitch. :-) Let me know if it happens again. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 03:35, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
Bug report
User:Alexis Jazz, I found this issue: Live preview doesn't work and the page doesn't reload after commenting. Also, there is no "Do not press this button" button; I was at WP:VPT and here's my preferences stored in Bawl.customizedSettings, a place that I only managed to find out after a while reading Bawl's source code.
NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, I removed the "Do not press this button" as, while funny, I figured it could confuse some. I documented the replacement: User:Alexis Jazz/Bawl/Mumbo jumbo#How to trigger an error. To summarize: enter "I am Error" (not case sensitive), a reference to I am Error, in the text field and open settings. I'll investigate these issues. Unrelated side note: I recently added an additive watchlist expiry options. (adds N days to the expiry with every edit) If you are using the "nochange" setting to avoid Bawl accidentally reducing the watchlist expiry for a page you edit (like going from indefinite to 30 days), additive watchlist expiry prevents that from happening. Actually, Bawl should never reduce the watchlist expiry anymore, regardless of setting. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:33, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, I thought about it and especially people who don't speak English the secret code isn't optimal. I'd also rather avoid people triggering the error screen by accident, so a button in the middle of the settings isn't optimal either. I settled for a small "bug?" link next to the load time in the bottom-right corner of the settings screen. The preview and reload issues should be resolved now. Thanks for reporting! — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 18:50, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, there's a balance to be found between chasing people away with "beta" warnings and warning them appropriately. It's difficult. I'm always open to suggestions. I've added information about the "bug?" link to the top of this page and the intro of the script page for now. And are there any other tools on Wikimedia feature that feature an error reporter? How do they handle it? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:24, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, I'm not fully sure (no recent experience anyway), but that is indeed an example. It doesn't help with the UI question though as the AF reporter is only linked when AF blocks an action. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 20:50, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
┌─────────────────────┘ NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, I appended the link to "Bawl! (early access)" as well. I kept the error reporter basic on purpose, nobody wants to find bugs in an error reporter. If you need it something already went wrong and if, for example, all API requests are failing, that shouldn't affect the ability to report an issue. I also wanted users to be able to review the data they are sending. And it's supposed to work on any wiki, but I have no idea if the user even has an account on English Wikipedia. It's possible to work all those things out and I see the appeal of an ajax dialog, but I think it's better to follow the KISS principle in this case. Minimize the chances of the reporter breaking. I avoid pop-ups. I have some experience teaching people basic computer skills and some people simply don't understand the concept of windows or pop-ups and them having focus. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 22:41, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
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<p>
"I'm an admin on Commons and would like to be able to see edit filters on English Wikipedia. "
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" ("
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") 02:25, 26 March 2022 (UTC)"
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Qwerfjkl, 1. The subscription feature is quite beta and indeed needs work. There is however the option "Mark timestamps of new comments since your last visit to the page" which works independent from subscriptions. I haven't yet been able to figure out how to echo yourself using JS, it's either poorly documented or impossible. I'm hoping just poorly documented. 2. Good idea, and makes sense! I'll add that, probably make it opt-out. 3. The "thanks" feature was added very recently, but this is indeed not very neat, so I'll fix that. 4. This is an issue. For comments placed with Bawl (with locator enabled) this is possible, they have an anchor. For legacy comments (without locator), such links could only work if the person who opens the link is also loading Bawl. When navigating using Bawl that could be useful, but such links shouldn't be posted publicly. (unless the wiki loads Bawl by default) Any further thoughts you might have on this are welcome. 5. Multiple reply links on the same line are technically possible with the way Bawl detects comments, but generally multiple timestamps existing on a single line isn't in line with how discussions are typically formatted in wikitext. I'm currently half-rewriting the loader, this will possibly reduce the likelihood of this happening. 6. There's an option to save to common/global.js, but yes, this will be nice to have as well. I'll put it on the to-do list. 7. Do you have an example/details? /(foo)/test$1test/g seems to turn "foo" into "testfootest" for me. 8. Can you define "broke"?never mind, I see. That's a bug and I think I know what caused it. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:11, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, actually no. mw.user.options.set() doesn't seem to be persistent in any way. Useful to load the new settings without reloading the page though. It takes an API call like globalpreferenceoverrides, options or globalpreferences to actually change preferences. I couldn't decide on the priority order with this, so I removed the options to save to common/global.js as those became redundant anyway. Some more questions: can you elaborate on point 4? CD has all kinds of linking features so I'm not fully sure what exactly it is you want to do? I know CD can generate links to comments that only CD can utilize, technically Bawl could generate something like that as well but I don't believe such links should ever be shared publicly, so I don't see the point. But you may have meant something else. About the "write permission denied" issue when copying: I read about that, had ignored it for the moment as I wasn't sure if it was still an issue. I know it's browser-specific, which browser+OS family do you use? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 13:58, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, For 4., It's described as: Wikilink from the same page / An anchor will be added automatically to the linked comment, so the link will work for everybody. The copying issue is from Amazon's Silk Browser. Also, the options for controlling when Bawl is enabled (automatically, on button etc.) seem to have disappeared. Qwerfjkltalk09:35, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, ha, that's clever! I tested it and it prepends a span to someone else's comment. Altering comments by others is a bit scary, though Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines#Editing others' comments does provide an exception for adding anchors. But that would depend on local policy, so on another wiki it could be unacceptable. The way CD does it breaks when trying to link a comment in a transcluded discussion: "Couldn't locate the comment in the code. This may be caused by the complexity of the comment code, the script flaw, or the fact that the comment was deleted or heavily edited". But I'm going to think about this, I think there are possibilities here. Amazon Silk.. err.. oh.. I can't install that, and I can't reproduce the issue in Chromium which Silk is based on.. I'll check your copy.js and see if I can extract the essence. I'll need you to test when I have. And yes, the loader options are gone, at least for now. They were introduced mainly for very low-end devices. Recently I improved the loader performance quite a bit, so performance-wise those extra loaders didn't need to stick around. I'll reintroduce some option for minimalists though. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:50, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, can you elaborate on 1? A subscription in CD only seems to allow filtering the watchlist for pages with pages to subscribed sections. One issue with that approach is that there is no guarantee a page with new comments actually shows on the watchlist. But I'm also confused by CD's interface here, I'm not sure how it's supposed to be used. Can you better describe what would make sense to you? If you know how to open the Browser console, open it and enter document.designMode = 'on'. You can type anywhere in the page now (yeah yeah, great for pranks too), change it to what you mean and take a screenshot. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 16:28, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I mean highlighting new comments since you last viewed the page, and adding a count (of the number of new comments) to the left side of the screen. Clicking on the count scrolls the the highest unread comment. Qwerfjkltalk16:40, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, are any of these issues still open now? For #1 I'll note that in addition to the marking of new comments and button to go over them I recently added Echo emulation ("I can't believe it's not an echo notification!") as userscripts can't use echo for now. For #4 I should note that I removed the comment anchor as default from pingtext. To add it back: find the field for "Mention text when pressing a speech balloon within the same section" on the "Editing" tab in settings. Empty it to see the placeholder. Enter a new pingtext which, like the placeholder, includes [[CMTLINK|^]]. (the caret can be replaced by something else if you want) — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 10:18, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
You messed up!
Alexis Jazz, you messed up! I was trying to subscribe to a scetion.
Replylinkparams:
{"int":8,"id":"heading-User_talk:Jimbo_WalesAzov_\"Battalion\"_-_Russian_disinfo_being_repeatedly_added_by_SPAs","type":"heading","subtype":"edit","pageTitle":"User talk:Jimbo Wales","sectionTitle":"Azov \"Battalion\" - Russian disinfo being repeatedly added by SPAs","origReplyTo":"","sectionseq":0}
Qwerfjkl, I had waited a bit with this as I was making various changes to the subscription feature and figured one of those changes may fix the issue without having to look into the cause. The section in question has since been archived and as the archive page doesn't have section edit links there's no subscription button either. I copied the section to a page on beta cluster and was able to subscribe there, so it's possible this is just fixed. Have you encountered this problem anywhere else recently? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 10:02, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz, sorry I didn't reply sooner. Bawl hasn't been working for me for a while now, on almost any page, except for the 'add new section' function. Any idea why? ― Qwerfjkltalk10:41, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, how long is "a while" roughly, a day, a week? Do you have examples of pages where it does and doesn't work? Does "not work" mean you don't see the speech balloons? Unless you disabled "Detect comments by legacy method" in the settings, I can't really think of a reason for this to happen on "almost any page" so I hope you can provide a little more info. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 10:50, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz, sorry for the vagueness. By 'a while' I mean 1-2 weeks; by 'not work' I mean nothing Bawl-related appears, apart from the start new section link at the bottom, and the p-cactions link to start a new section. My settings:
Qwerfjkl, it's not a bug, it's a feature! You enabled "Load links within page content only after pressing a section header" (ninjaLoader). Press any section header (the page title in #firstHeading also counts) and the links will load. NinjaLoader makes Bawl nearly invisible, like.. a ninja. It's mostly an option for minimalists and extremely slow devices. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 11:15, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
Savinging$3 preferences to account preferences doesn't seem to work for me. The problem has been around for a while. Qwerfjkltalk06:48, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, strange, I've blacklisted the "-XXX(ed/er/ing/ive)" rule that's responsible, but I have no idea what that rule is supposed to do or why it mangles words like "saving" or "living". It doesn't mangle "building", but it will mangle "sasasasaving" and "doremifasolatidoving". What do you mean with "saving to account preferences doesn't seem to work"? Are the settings not saved, not loaded, you get an error, form stops responding, etc etc? Can you open the browser console and enter mw.user.options.get('userjs-Bawl')? Does it return anything? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 17:13, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, well, I forgot to use the alternative multiple-value separator so any settings that contain a pipe character anywhere just break. In my defense, even if I had remembered to use the other separator it wouldn't have made any difference at all. After phab:T299809 and phab:T306299 I think that's the third MediaWiki bug I'll have to create a workaround for. Won't be long. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 18:16, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
{"int":1308,"type":"comment","subtype":"legacy","id":"NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh:08:28, 21 April 2022 (UTC):1308","pageTitle":"Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)","sectionTitle":"Recent software_upgrade","origReplyTo":"NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh","origTimestamp":"08:28, 21 April 2022 (UTC)","seq":0,"sectionseq":22}
Not sure if this is related, but seeing "Recent software_upgrade" in the summary, I'm sure .replace(/ /,'_') and .replace(/_/,' ') in the source are missing the global flag. Nardog (talk) 08:46, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
So the edit was posted in the right section, but the summary links the first. Nardog, that could very well be it. NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, I tried to reproduce it but I wasn't able to. I'll do a little more digging, but I hope Nardog's suggestion (which I applied) was the fix anyway. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 14:39, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, I looked a bit further and it appears that detection of section titles beyond the first isn't working on your system. I suspect this particular issue is caused by a gadget, userscript or skin you have enabled/are using. 1. Which skin are you using? 2. Have you recently enabled new gadgets? Can you try reverting your common.js/global.js/etc to a version before 16 April? It seems you started having this problem on 18 April and didn't have it yet on 16 April. 3. Can you share $('.mw-editsection')[20].outerHTML for Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)? If it's caused by another gadget or script there could be a clue in there. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 22:16, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz: Legacy Vector, ShortDescHelper (for a few minutes before disabling it), and here's the HTML you want:
<spanclass="mw-editsection"><spanclass="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><ahref="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)&section=20&veaction=editsource"title="Edit section: Template R to diacritic"class="quickedit-target">edit source</a><spanclass="quickedit-section"> | </span><aclass="quickedit-section quickedit-editlink">quick edit</a><spanclass="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span><spanid="bawlLink-heading-Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)Template_R_to_diacritic"class="BawlLinks"><aclass="BawlReplyLink"onclick="Bawl.openReplyForm(Bawl.replyLinkParams[1213])"><spantitle="Add section"class="BawlReplyLink BawlSVGNewSectionIcon BawlSVG"></span></a><span><aclass="BawlReplyLink"onclick="Bawl.openReplyForm(Bawl.replyLinkParamsHeadingEdit[1213])"><spantitle="Edit section"class="BawlReplyLink BawlSVGEditIcon BawlSVG"></span></a></span></span></span>
{"int":1245,"type":"comment","subtype":"legacy","id":"Klein_Muçi:11:51, 27 April 2022 (UTC):1245","pageTitleInt":1227,"origReplyTo":"Klein_Muçi","origTimestamp":"11:51, 27 April 2022 (UTC)","seq":0}
NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, this was caused by headers without an mw-editsection. I fixed this particular issue by filtering out .mw-headline within tables, but the same problem could be caused by headers inside other elements. Some background info: poking around in the DOM is hundreds of times slower than working with internal values, so I avoid it unless absolutely necessary. We're talking milliseconds but with hundreds of sections it can add up, especially on slower devices like phones. .mw-headline provides the section title without markup (and all section titles must be processed to check for identically named sections) but not the page title. .mw-editsection provides the page title (needed in case of transcluded sections), but the section title can't be extracted very reliably: it's found in the tooltip, but it's $1 of MediaWiki:editsectionhint which has proven problematic, and then there's phab:T306299. So I create an array of #mw-content-text .mw-editsection and #mw-content-text .mw-headline so I can poke around in those (which is quick) and assume that, say, #4 in one array corresponds to #4 in the other array. When a .mw-headline exists without a .mw-editsection (which, as demonstrated, can actually happen) this is wrong. Question is, now what? If I could use a CSS selector to select only direct childNodes (requiring the parentElement for H1/H2/etc is .mw-parser-output) that should solve the issue, but I'm not sure if this is possible. Maybe I'll just put in a slower fallback that pokes around in the DOM more when there's a mismatch between the number of .mw-editsection and .mw-headline. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 03:15, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, yes, though indeed it doesn't have to be leading so I moved it to the end of the line. Bawl.fyi isn't actually used anywhere. I'll soon release a minified version of the script. To preserve the license info when comments get stripped I moved it into a variable. The nowiki tag is needed because MediaWiki parses JS pages, without it the script can end up in maintenance categories for having, for example, redlinks. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:36, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
Bug report
User:Alexis Jazz, I found this issue: I can no longer use Bawl due to an illegal (global) return statement which you added in this edit. At first, I thought the problem were temporary, but it turns out that I should always stick to my console when dealing with Bawl. Out of curiosity, how can you still use Bawl? NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh20:20, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, ouch! I use Greasemonkey to test Bawl so I can quickly make and test changes without altering a wiki page. In Greasemonkey I have to add a delay so it doesn't load too soon, it's a Greasemonkey-specific issue. So my test version is always wrapped in this delay which could be returned out of, but without that there's nothing. I don't know why I thought there was. I'm sorry and also ashamed. :-( If an issue is completely breaking Bawl and lasting more than 10 minutes, assume you need to report it. I never intentionally leave Bawl in a fully broken state. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 21:08, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, that's indeed a special case. I think I recently added JSON validity checks before parsing any JSON as the entire script would otherwise halt if it tries to parse an invalid JSON. One of those JSON.parse actions, of replyLinkParams (which contain username, timestamp, pagename, etc of the comment) after posting of a comment required to be URL-decoded first. The URL-decoding for the actual parsing was there, but not in the validity check which I added, so the validity check always returned false as the JSON isn't valid unless URL-decoded. Fixed. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 11:43, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
{"int":421,"type":"comment","subtype":"legacy","id":"NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh:09:21, 7 May 2022 (UTC):421","pageTitleInt":419,"origReplyTo":"NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh","origTimestamp":"09:21, 7 May 2022 (UTC)","seq":0,"pageTitle":"User talk:Joeytje50/JWB","sectionTitle":"JWB in Santali Wikipedia"}
NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, that thing is a bug! Qwerfjkl had asked for Bawl not to insert a space between signature and message when the message ends with a non-breaking space. Seemed reasonable to me, so I made the space conditional but inserted the code for that in the wrong place, in the locator-signature-adding segment. (you disabled the locator in your settings, this is why I didn't catch this bug myself as I have it enabled) Unfortunately I did replace the fixed space with the conditional space in the legacy-signature-adding segment, but the actual definition of it wouldn't run from there. As a result, it was "undefined". I moved a little bit of code up, should be fine now. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 11:07, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
This is the same as the Bawl-not-loading issue I mentioned above, but not caused by ninjaLoader (probably).
Qwerfjkltalk19:54, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, do you experience this on every page or just on VPT? Do you see any JS errors/warnings in the console? Do you see the icons to edit/permalink sections? Do you see the icons to thank/permalink comments? Are signature dates displayed in your local time? Can you file another error report? I've just added some more info to the error reporter to give me an idea of whether any elements were even processed at all. Sorry for all the questions, it's always difficult when an issue isn't easily reproduced. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 03:39, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
Skin: vector-2022 # of .BawlLinks: 149 # of elements processed: 1090 Element types processed: LI, SPAN, P, I, DD, S, SMALL Additional information: Error triggered by user. ― Qwerfjkltalk06:12, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, perhaps it was resolved by a recent change to Bawl. You appear to test and run many scripts based on your common.js (and I can't see what gadgets you have enabled), so an interaction with any of those is also possible. ConvenientDiscussions, if loaded before Bawl, damages Bawl's ability to detect signatures (some signatures are no longer detected), but this is unlikely to have been the issue. Based on your two error reports, I see all elements were found both times, but the first time no reply buttons (.BawlLinks) were added, not for comments but also not for sections. Maybe you had an invalid subscriptions JSON that caused the script to halt, I'll add some better checks for that. On Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets there is a gadget "Show an alert when you encounter JavaScript errors" which I find very useful. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 07:34, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz, It's stopped working (again). Here are some console errors:
Uncaught TypeError: Cannot read properties of undefined (reading 'nodeValue')<br/> at Object.Bawl.getPageTitleAndSectionName (<anonymous>:5003:170)<br/> at Object.Bawl.addPageAndSectionTitleToRPL (<anonymous>:5032:26)<br/> at Object.Bawl.addReplyLinkTo (<anonymous>:4669:27)<br/> at Object.Bawl.searchNodeContents (<anonymous>:5119:9)<br/> at Object.Bawl.searchNodeContentsLoop (<anonymous>:5400:8)<br/> at <anonymous>:5496:7<br/> at Object.<anonymous> (<anonymous>:1:984)<br/> at mightThrow (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init%7Cjquery%2Coojs-ui-core%2Coojs-ui-widgets%7Cjquery.ui&skin=vector-2022&version=6fdc4:334:881)<br/> at process (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init%7Cjquery%2Coojs-ui-core%2Coojs-ui-widgets%7Cjquery.ui&skin=vector-2022&version=6fdc4:335:544)<br style="margin-bottom:0.5em"/>Failed to load resource: the server responded with a status of 500 ()<br/>VM587:70 TypeError: Cannot read properties of null (reading 'length')<br/> at HTMLDocument.<anonymous> (<anonymous>:52:30)<br/> at mightThrow (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init%7Cjquery%2Coojs-ui-core%2Coojs-ui-widgets%7Cjquery.ui&skin=vector-2022&version=6fdc4:334:881)<br/> at process (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init%7Cjquery%2Coojs-ui-core%2Coojs-ui-widgets%7Cjquery.ui&skin=vector-2022&version=6fdc4:335:544)<br/>(anonymous) @ VM587:70<br/>VM587:168 TypeError: Cannot read properties of null (reading 'length')<br/> at HTMLDocument.<anonymous> (<anonymous>:144:30)<br/> at mightThrow (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init%7Cjquery%2Coojs-ui-core%2Coojs-ui-widgets%7Cjquery.ui&skin=vector-2022&version=6fdc4:334:881)<br/> at process (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init%7Cjquery%2Coojs-ui-core%2Coojs-ui-widgets%7Cjquery.ui&skin=vector-2022&version=6fdc4:335:544)<br/>(anonymous) @ VM587:168<br style="margin-bottom:0.5em"/>Unchecked runtime.lastError: The message port closed before a response was received.
Also, the line breaks inside <pre>...</pre><syntaxhighlight>...</syntaxhighlight><nowiki>...</nowiki> don't work. ― Qwerfjkltalk16:25, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
Some more error messgaes (may not be related, but...):
<br/>/w/load.php?lang=en&...022&version=1aqa8:6 Uncaught SyntaxError: Unexpected string<br style="margin-bottom:0.5em"/>Uncaught TypeError: Cannot read properties of undefined (reading 'match')<br/> at HTMLSpanElement.<anonymous> (<anonymous>:130:51)<br/> at Function.each (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init%7Cjquery%2Coojs-ui-core%2Coojs-ui-widgets%7Cjquery.ui&skin=vector-2022&version=6fdc4:290:285)<br/> at jQuery.fn.init.each (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init%7Cjquery%2Coojs-ui-core%2Coojs-ui-widgets%7Cjquery.ui&skin=vector-2022&version=6fdc4:288:93)<br/> at <anonymous>:124:6<br/> at fire (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init%7Cjquery%2Coojs-ui-core%2Coojs-ui-widgets%7Cjquery.ui&skin=vector-2022&version=6fdc4:331:934)<br/> at Object.fireWith [as resolveWith] (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init%7Cjquery%2Coojs-ui-core%2Coojs-ui-widgets%7Cjquery.ui&skin=vector-2022&version=6fdc4:333:135)<br/> at Object.deferred.<computed> [as resolve] (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init%7Cjquery%2Coojs-ui-core%2Coojs-ui-widgets%7Cjquery.ui&skin=vector-2022&version=6fdc4:336:632)<br/> at Object.<anonymous> (<anonymous>:871:413)<br/> at fire (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init%7Cjquery%2Coojs-ui-core%2Coojs-ui-widgets%7Cjquery.ui&skin=vector-2022&version=6fdc4:331:934)<br/> at Object.fireWith [as resolveWith] (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init%7Cjquery%2Coojs-ui-core%2Coojs-ui-widgets%7Cjquery.ui&skin=vector-2022&version=6fdc4:333:135)<br/>
Qwerfjkl, thanks for the console errors. I strongly suspect it's clashing with another gadget that prepends a link to .mW-editsection. The issue might be intermittent because your gadgets may not always load in the same order due to variance in network performance and I'm guessing this problem only occurs if some gadget is loaded before Bawl. I've added a better check so you should have better luck now. I'm aware of the pre/syntaxhighlight/nowiki issues, I need to document those. DiscussionTools and manual wikitext editing have the same issue, there's no proper solution for it that always works. If you have suggestions (just how you would use those tags in wikitext with indentation), let me know. I do need to fix it for new (sub)sections though and for some specific cases I could test some workarounds. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 18:29, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, did the better check fix it? As for multiline pre/syntaxhighlight, both should work just fine now thanks to a suggestion by Lucas Werkmeister (WMDE) at phab:T308335. It was a bit more complicated to implement than anticipated but it's done. Only on wikis that have the truenewline template. Also it secretly transforms pre into syntaxhighlight as the trick doesn't work for pre, but syntaxhighlight with lang=text outputs a HTML pre, so the end result is the same. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 15:07, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
Element types processed: LI, P, DD, SPAN, I, SMALL, S
Additional information: Received no response from API. Is your internet plugged in?
I was trying to subscribe to a section.
Qwerfjkltalk21:03, 8 May 2022 (UTC) ―
Qwerfjkl, which section on which page? Can you reproduce this error? In all likelihood, it's exactly what it says. This error happens when either the WMF servers are on fire or your internet isn't plugged in. Temporarily disconnecting WiFi/mobile internet also falls under that. Maybe I should to switch to a small toast instead of the "awww shit" for this one. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 00:10, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
Archiving this thread for now, if more reports follow I'll investigate, but shitpacket loss happens. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 18:54, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
{"int":533,"type":"comment","subtype":"legacy","id":"NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh:17:46, 10 May 2022 (UTC):533","pageTitleInt":526,"origReplyTo":"NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh","origTimestamp":"17:46, 10 May 2022 (UTC)","seq":0,"sectionseq":0,"pageTitle":"Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)","sectionTitle":"Global vs local script mgt"}
Page: enwiki @ {"int":533,"type":"comment","subtype":"legacy","id":"NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh:17:46, 10 May 2022 (UTC):533","pageTitleInt":526,"origReplyTo":"NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh","origTimestamp":"17:46, 10 May 2022 (UTC)","seq":0,"sectionseq":0,"pageTitle":"Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)","sectionTitle":"Global vs local script mgt"}1 [sic]
# of .BawlLinks: Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)
# of elements processed: 537
Element types processed: LI, P, DD, I, SPAN, S, SMALL
Additional information: Bawl is preventing QuickEdit from opening its edit form. This is likely caused by a recent change. While I am aware of Bawl's section editing feature, I'm afraid it has no mark-as-minor checkbox and I'm just used with QE. NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh17:53, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, you are right. I hadn't added a "minor" checkbox because I didn't want to clutter the interface, but this was back when I had no edit summary field either. As I have a summary field now, it's no issue or clutter to have a "minor" checkbox appended to it - so now you have one. As for QuickEdit, that's slightly more complicated. Here's the thing: when you enable collapsible sections, Bawl adds stopPropagation() to .mw-editsection. What's in ..mw-editsection? The regular [ edit ] link, icons added by Bawl and also.. QuickEdit. Bawl has no problem with stopPropagation(). The regular [ edit ] link is just a link so it doesn't care either. At this point I'm wondering "what makes QuickEdit different?" and took a peek at QuickEdit's code. QuickEdit relies on the "click" event to propagate all the way up to <body>! This clashes with collapsible sections. This is not an issue specific to Bawl, QuickEdit also causes problems on the mobile site where sections are collapsible by default. (collapsible without Bawl I mean, it's a MobileFrontend feature I think) Changing body.on('click', clickHandler); to $('.mw-editsection').on('click', clickHandler); in QuickEdit (fork with change applied) appears to fix it. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 20:56, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
{"int":41,"type":"comment","subtype":"legacy","id":"Casualdejekyll?redirect=no:23:49, 18 May 2022 (UTC):41","pageTitleInt":34,"origReplyTo":"Casualdejekyll?redirect=no","origTimestamp":"23:49, 18 May 2022 (UTC)","seq":0,"sectionseq":0,"pageTitle":"Wikipedia talk:Special:PrefixIndex","sectionTitle":"Substing this page?"}
Qwerfjkl, I suspect you're right as the detected username is "Casualdejekyll?redirect=no" which for obvious reasons can't be found in the wikitext. This is triggered by User:BrandonXLF/NoRedirect.js. I've added question marks to the regular expression, this appears to have corrected the issue. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 07:06, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
Feature request
User:Alexis Jazz, there are a few things that have been bugging me (but not so much that I mentioned/complained about them before):
There are no link/template suggestions when you type
When clicking on the comment cycle, it can also scroll across the width of the screen (to the right)
Viewing comments doesn't count as 'reading' them, for the purposes of the cycle
The preview takes surprisingly long to load e.g. over 5 seconds (not really fixable, but...)
Qwerfjkl, link/template suggestions are the final red item on User:Alexis Jazz/Bawl#Feature comparison matrix. Now that you've requested it I have no choice but to look into it. Getting the suggestions isn't the hard part, but I'll have to analyze CD to see the UI side of it. Comment cycle horizontal scroll: right, I think I can fix that. Usually the issue wouldn't be noticeable as horizontal scrollbars typically aren't supposed to exist, it might indicate a MediaWiki issue as well but that depends on your device and the page in question. Viewing comments (by manually scrolling to them without clicking the cycle button) indeed doesn't mark them as read for the purposes of the button, is that what you mean? Sounds like a good idea, will look into it. Preview takes long: you have Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser/Typos enabled and you're using a mobile device (you mentioned Amazon Silk earlier) with limited CPU power, I suspect that's the reason. I could maybe implement an option to do the preview twice: first preview without RegExTypoFix (quick) and immediately do it again in the background with RegExTypoFix. 5 seconds after previewing the typos caught by RegExTypoFix would disappear. Or perhaps more sensible, I could add the option to skip RegExTypoFix on preview. Bullet points broken: looks like a bug, will fix. Handy links: hmmm, I have an idea I think. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 06:06, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
I just noticed this: I use the regex /([^~;\)\>])$/$1 ― / to append a dash to my comment, but Bawl adds a space after the end of the comment, before the signature, which breaks the non-breaking space (see the above comment). ― Qwerfjkltalk06:12, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz, I tried Mark comments as read when you scroll them into view, and I've found two errors: trying to set properties of undefined (innerText), and the comment cycle reaches 0, instead of disappearing. ― Qwerfjkltalk19:10, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, I had noticed and already wrote the fix but didn't put the new version up yet. Now I have. I also added the requested link/template suggestions. CD didn't really help with my UI conundrum (CD's solution seems not very comfortable on mobile and I want Bawl to work on both desktop and mobile), but I found a way. The "insert link" form (which already existed) now makes suggestions. To stay in the flow, I added an option "Move to link insertion form when typing [ [ or { {. If you enter the form with curly brackets the search will be prepended by Template:. The "insert link" form can be exited again by entering closing brackets and the whole shebang sorts itself out. Earlier I had added the "Also enable RegExTypoFix on preview" option so you could enable RETF without an unbearably slow preview. (you can also apply RETF manually from the looking glass) And "Mark comments as read when you scroll them into view" is an option now. The scrolling issue should also be resolved, I had copied the parameters for "scroll to center" from somewhere and that included vertical centering. It's now set to the default "nearest", so it will only scroll vertically if that's required to get the element in view. Bullet points was a bug that should be fixed. I added an href to the section permalink icon, right click (or equivalent on touchscreen devices) and "copy link" to get it. This gives you a non-permalink for the section. Do you need any of the other links? My thought is that the wikilinks aren't needed as the URLs get rewritten anyway. Is any more work needed on the requests/reports (including the 7 points at the top of this page)? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:53, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz, thanks so much for your work on this! Regarding I added an href to the section permalink icon, right click (or equivalent on touchscreen devices) and "copy link" to get it. This gives you a non-permalink for the section, I don't seem to have an equivalent to right click. It'd be nice if a normal (full) wikilink was there as well - it helps with my CfD work, and could be useful elsewhere. The 'insert link' form works fine with [ [, but with { { input: 'tq', 'Some text', it produces {{Template:tqSome text}}, which isn't quite right. It also inserts the link/template at the end of the comment, not where the [ [ / { { was typed. These improvements cover all my feature requests (save 4., perhaps), so I suppose I'll have to think of some more. Happy editing! ― Qwerfjkltalk21:07, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, there must be a better way. I don't seem to have an equivalent to right click On my phone I can press and hold links (the permalink icon is a link element) to get a menu after 2 seconds or so that includes a "copy link" option. Does this not work on Amazon devices? I must admit, it has bothered me for some time that Twinkle doesn't rewrite URLs. Bawl does, but Bawl can't file an XfD. What if Bawl could file XfDs? Hmm, no, that's a crap idea, not gonna happen. What if Twinkle could rewrite URLs? YES! In the settings for Bawl, look for "CSS selector for other elements to rewrite URLs for" and insert #wpSummary,.morebits-dialog textarea. This will make Bawl rewrite URLs in the 2010 Wikitext editor edit summary and Twinkle. Cat-a-lot uses a window.prompt (whyyy??) so unfortunately this doesn't work there, I need to fix Cat-a-lot for that. You weren't supposed to "name" templates, but I figured I might as well interpret a "name" for templates, if given, as an argument so that's done now. The "Template:" was supposed to be filtered, that should work again too. It should also no longer insert at the end. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 14:00, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, well that sucks! :-) I searched for it, but as I don't have the device I don't really know what to look for. I mostly found guides with titles like "how to install Google Play on Amazon thing", I'm guessing that might be needed to install another browser. I tested the press-and-hold on an Android and an iOS device and it worked on both, but I guess it's not a universal feature. I added an option to also generate non-permalinks. For #4 of the requests in the earlier thread, I added an option to re-purpose permalink icons in the same section to insert a link to the comment using the same as format as CD. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 00:00, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, you have it enabled on #wpSummary,.morebits-dialog textarea so it should work on edit summaries on the 2010 wikitext editor and Twinkle textarea. Maybe you want #wpSummary,.morebits-dialog textarea,.morebits-dialog input,.ve-ui-mwSaveDialog-summary textarea to also cover single line Twinkle input fields (just fyi, Twinkle has so many options I'm not sure this covers everything) and New wikitext mode (2017 source editor) as well. Step by step: open [4]. (if you use the 2017 source editor make sure .ve-ui-mwSaveDialog-summary textarea is included in your CSS selector) Get to the summary field and paste [5] into it. (just the URL, without the brackets) Now click anywhere outside the summary field. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 23:29, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz, I tried again, (on my laptop), and now I get an error when unsubscribing: VM1047:3737 Uncaught TypeError: Bawl.currentSubs.replace is not a function at Object.Bawl.stalkUnsubscribe (<anonymous>:3737:75) at HTMLAnchorElement.onclick (Bawl:1:6) ― Qwerfjkltalk15:45, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, I think I fixed this but forgot to reply. Can you confirm whether this issue still exists? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 15:13, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
6000 lines
Congratulations on Bawl's 6000th line of codes! How you managed to remember every aspect of it, find/fix bugs and then add a lot of new features before re-looping the process remains a secret to me. NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh20:42, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, thank you so much! Good timing too, as I'm about to take Bawl out of "early access". I needed some time to think about what to say. A few things I find useful: as I kept the whole project in a single file I never have to wonder in which file some bug might be. I use long names for variables and the like. No shortening of "int" to "i" or "element" to "el" which improves readability for me. This increases the script size slightly which is why I wrote User:Alexis Jazz/AJSJSMangler as well. And plenty of code comments/debug messages. I use JSHint to catch obvious syntax errors. And last but not least, I got a lot of great feedback from testers! :-) — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 13:32, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz: I have just tested it with my JWB and it seems that AJsJSMangler (nice pun!) can't differentiate strings from real variables. Also, did you copy-and-paste the licensing terms from Bawl again? NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh13:57, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, not really.. You moved the section from Wikipedia:Bots/Noticeboard to Wikipedia:Bot requests. From what I can tell the move went fine. (I forgot to add some "moved from" summary, but otherwise fine) Technically one could argue (and SineBot certainly does) that you added a new section that you didn't sign yourself to WP:Bot requests. But as the section actually was signed (not by you, but that's splitting hairs), I think SineBot should have skipped it. Slakr, what do you think? Edit: OOOOOOOOOH now I see it! Hilarious! As there is no tag for Bawl, the credit/blame/spam link is part of the summary. If you look closely you'll see SineBot's summary ends with a double quote, somewhat that will never happen with Bawl. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 20:06, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, to respond to your original comment: Have you made some change to Cat-a-lot somehow, as it seems to have an edit summary field now (not prompt()). This would be fine, but as I use mobile, the pop-up keyboard makes it impossible to type onto the Cat-a-lot input box, which is attached to the bottom of the screen (especially pasting is impossible) I made an adjustment and requested the change to be merged which happened on 15 May.. This was done so the CSS selector for URL rewriting could actually target cat-a-lot's summary as a prompt() can't be targeted. (oh, btw, you will soon be able to enter a CSS selector for RegExTypoFix and your own regular expressions as well!) I'd imagine that if you were able to hit the checkbox you should be able to hit the text input. Btw, I don't think cat-a-lot was really designed with mobile in mind, though on a medium-sized tablet in landscape mode it would probably be okay. I don't have an Amazon device and from what I understand they behave different from other devices in some cases, so when that happens please just report it to we can have a look. If you experience difficulties targeting elements at the bottom of your screen, would it help if you could have cat-a-lot in a top corner instead of a bottom corner? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 22:28, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, huh, odd. Not for me. Is having cat-a-lot in a top corner something you'd actually want? Otherwise I don't think this is worth pursuing. Btw, did you know cat-a-lot (when expanded) is draggable? So if it's more convenient you could drag it elsewhere as needed. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 17:46, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, one of us messed up (probably me)! I clicked the speech bubble and the box appeared OK. I typed some text and hit Submit. The Submit button greyed out and started gently flashing but the edit didn't happen. I've tried resetting my preferences and reinstalling: same problem. I use Firefox 100.0 (current) on Ubuntu 16.04 (outdated but should work for this). There are no obvious clues in the browser console. I use uMatrix but it's switched off for Wikipedia.
I was trying to..
Replylinkparams:
{"int":520,"type":"comment","subtype":"legacy","id":"Galobtter:22:53, 18 May 2022 (UTC):520","pageTitleInt":515,"origReplyTo":"Galobtter","origTimestamp":"22:53, 18 May 2022 (UTC)","seq":0,"sectionseq":1,"sectionTitle":"Adding own talk contribs to \"vandal\" template"}
Page: Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals) @ enwiki
Page loaded at: 18/05/2022, 23:32:33
Error occured at: 18/05/2022, 23:33:00 UTC
My settings:
""
Skin: vector
# of .BawlLinks: 261
# of elements processed: 521
Element types processed: LI, P, I, DD, SPAN, SMALL, S
Certes, that's not what's meant to happen! As it's working for me (just reverted myself) I need to ask for more information: can't you reply to anyone anywhere or just that thread? As you are familiar with the browser console, could you try enabling debug mode? On the advanced tab in settings, check "Show expert settings", check "Enable test/debug mode" and save. Now you should get some clues in the browser console, if you could share the last 5 or so messages I'd have some clue where it gets stuck. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 00:27, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
Certes, I think I see part of the issue. sectionseq is 1 for you. That means Bawl thinks this is the second thread on that page with that exact title. (if it was the third it would be 2, etc) It should be 0. I suspect it's a conflict caused by a gadget or userscript you have installed. What does
look like for you? (I'm looking for the innerHTML of the section header of the thread in question, I suspect there are some gadgets there) — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 00:39, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
Certes, I've made some changes to improve compatibility with gadgets that add fake .mw-editsections. Bawl now changes the class of the fake .mw-editsection elements to .mw-editsection-like so Bawl is less likely to get broken by such scripts. As long as the other script doesn't rely on its link having the .mw-editsection class it'll work fine, which is the case for hideSectionDesktop.js — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 06:38, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, Thanks for the prompt response. If you see this then it's worked! I should have checked hideSectionDesktop.js: it doesn't play well with at least one other script, which is why I have it in an IF block. I like section hiding for DisamAssist if I have to click repeatedly on a link near the bottom of the page. If Bawl does that already then I can remove the troublesome alternative. Thanks again for all the good work. My next job is to get regexp buttons working in articles. For example, I've hacked together a GreaseMonkey script that fixes frequent mislinks like [[Meta]] → [[Meta Platforms|]] but hope to discard that soon too if I can set up buttons for them. Certes (talk) 08:26, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
Certes, good to hear! A custom insert with /\[\[[Mm]eta\]\]/[[Meta Platforms|]]/g:<<Meta>> adds a button labeled "Meta" that replaces that link. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:00, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz: Thanks, that worked perfectly. Bawl changed the link for me when I pressed my new Acre[IL] button, not to be confused with my Acre[BR] button for when someone thinks acre is about Acre (state). One oddity: the button I'd have expected to be called "Submit" was called "Edit this page", but it performed the submit function correctly. Certes (talk) 22:21, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
Certes, I'm glad you find it useful. :-) The button label is an odd story. It varies depending on your action. Many months ago Bawl didn't have the ability yet to edit whole pages and translations were handled differently. On 13 February 2022 both of those things changed, full page editing was added and translations for primary UI elements were imported from MediaWiki. The word "reply" made no sense when editing a full page, so that became {{int:edit}} (Edit this page). But "Publish changes" or "Edit this page" made no sense when commenting. And MediaWiki doesn't have a translation for "reply" in its core modules or any extension that would be reasonable to be a dependency for Bawl. So I used {{int:htmlform-submit}} (Submit) instead. But now I guess confusion arises because "Submit", unlike "Reply", could be used for both actions, but due to history it doesn't. I thought about it and I have to agree, there's no good reason not to simply use htmlform-submit everywhere, so I'll include that change with the next update. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 05:11, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz: Thanks, I think Submit is clearer and more consistent. "Edit this page" could be misunderstood as "start typing edits to this page" (expecting a submit/preview/cancel UI interaction later) rather than "Publish the edits I just typed". Certes (talk) 11:49, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
Certes, I hadn't thought of it that way. In hindsight it wasn't the clearest choice for a button label. Btw, I noticed this little purge confirmation dialog automation snippet in your common.js, I never understood why I was ever asked for confirmation of that. Does God kill a kitteh every time you purge? (I guess it's to do with rate limits, but still, it seems silly) Now I'm not saying you'll never have to purge again, but Bawl now automatically purges the page you're on when you just edited something transcluded. Should be handy for template documentation etc. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 04:13, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
You messed up! (I AM ERROR)
Alexis Jazz, you messed up! (Or maybe not, but that's pre-filled, so I'll leave it.) When I use Bawl to reply on a page which is permanently on my watchlist, it seems to set it to be temporarily on my watchlist instead. Ideally permanently watched pages would stay that way, and unwatched pages would be temporarily watched, no?
Ezlev, I definitely messed up, that shouldn't have happened. For some reason the existing expiration was defined as the current time in this case and (per default) 30 days got added to that. Maybe a leftover from a time when Bawl offered less watchlist expiry options. It should work now. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 21:09, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
Bug report
User:Alexis Jazz, I found this issue: Bawl no longer loads, giving the error:
VM204:4253 Uncaught TypeError: Cannot convert undefined or null to object
at Function.keys (<anonymous>)
at Object.Bawl.stalkSyncToLocalStorage (<anonymous>:4253:39)
at <anonymous>:4306:7
at Object.<anonymous> (<anonymous>:1:984)
at mightThrow (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.tmh.OgvJsSupport%2Cplayer%7Cjquery%2Coojs-ui-core%2Coojs-ui-widgets%7Cjquery.ui&skin=vector-2022&version=fkv6n:60:881)
at process (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.tmh.OgvJsSupport%2Cplayer%7Cjquery%2Coojs-ui-core%2Coojs-ui-widgets%7Cjquery.ui&skin=vector-2022&version=fkv6n:61:544)
Qwerfjkl, see above, I was a bit slow to add that comment. As I knew you had recently done a reset anyway and nobody else has subscriptions enabled (that I know) I didn't write a conversion/updater this time. I've just added a little check (so Bawl would hopefully load at least) but you'll still have to reset your subscriptions. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 20:32, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
{"int":50,"type":"edit","subtype":"locator","id":"Qwerfjkl:1653576522844:WikipediaFTTCLNBots/Requests_for_approval/Qwerfjkl_(bot)_12","origid":"Qwerfjkl:1653576522844:WikipediaFTTCLNBots/Requests_for_approval/Qwerfjkl_(bot)_12","pageTitle":"Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/Qwerfjkl (bot) 12","origReplyTo":"Qwerfjkl","origTimestamp":"1653576579844","sectionTitle":"Discussion","seq":0,"sectionseq":0,"freshcomment":true,"freshindent":1}
Qwerfjkl, good question. Based on Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/Qwerfjkl (bot) 12 (history) I found the reproduction steps: post a comment, reply to the posted comment, edit the first comment, edit the first comment again. I suspect the cause is this: because performing edits is way slower (server response time) than parsing a little wikitext, Bawl shows your parsed reply or edit before the edit has actually been confirmed by the server. When the edit is confirmed the background color fades away. This greatly enhances the sense of speed, but it's more complicated than you might think. The timestamp of the parsed comment you see isn't accurate, it can deviate a few seconds from the final edit. For locators (which have millisecond precision) this is breaking as that timestamp isn't the same as the one found in the wikitext. To fix this, the "wrong" timestamp is recorded and when the edit is confirmed the true timestamp is extracted from the response and the recorded wrong timestamp is replaced with the final timestamp. It only adjusts the locator timestamp, so if you post a comment at exactly 14:59:59 the signature would say 14:59 (if parsed within a second) but after refreshing the page it'd say 15:00. (if the edit took at least a second to go through) The problem must be related to this somehow, the origTimestamp (which is searched for) from your report is 1653576579844 (16:49:39) but the ID says 1653576522844. (16:48:42) That's nearly a minute later, so where did that come from.. As a side note, Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/Qwerfjkl (bot) 12 (Diff 1089954376) shouldn't have been needed. If you edit a comment to add a ping, Bawl adds a userlink to the edit summary. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 23:14, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
Or it's not really that, despite the complexity. The temporary replylinkparams got overwritten with multiple replies it seems. Should be all fixed now. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 01:03, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
{"int":271,"type":"edit","subtype":"locator","id":"Qwerfjkl:1653572284870:WikipediaFTTCLNBot_requests","pageTitle":"Wikipedia:Bot_requests","pageTitleInt":257,"origReplyTo":"Qwerfjkl","origTimestamp":"1653572284870","seq":0,"sectionTitle":"Substitute inappropriate uses of PH wikidata in article text.","sectionseq":0}
Element types processed: LI, P, SPAN, INPUT, DD, I, SMALL, S
Additional information: Error triggered by user.
According to the diff button, Bawl was about to eat Qwerfjkl's signature. Also, the "Awwww shit." message was prepended to both .BawlScrewed and #BawlEditNotice. NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh20:37, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, fixed. This only affected the diff, the actual edit wouldn't have eaten the signature. The Awwww shit. should only be added to one element from now on. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 21:50, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
{"int":232,"type":"edit","subtype":"legacy","id":"Qwerfjkl:06:37, 27 May 2022 (UTC):232","pageTitleInt":220,"origReplyTo":"Qwerfjkl","origTimestamp":"06:37, 27 May 2022 (UTC)","seq":0,"pageTitle":"User talk:Alexis Jazz/Bawl","sectionTitle":"You messed up! (I AM ERROR)","sectionseq":3}
NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, it wasn't just the prefill, there was also a "Show changes" button when there shouldn't be one. It was completely the edit window. The way I reproduced it: after clicking a pencil the stored params for the speech balloon got overwritten with those for the pencil. Shouldn't happen anymore. Your request to write functions is interesting, essentially you're asking for a plugin functionality of some sort I think. I won't add text fields within Bawl to insert JS, that doesn't feel right, but some sort of plugin support should be doable. Can you give examples of the kind of functions you'd be interested to create so I can get a better idea of what's needed? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 10:09, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, the issue with a coding area is that a bugged module could easily break Bawl entirely, so you couldn't edit or remove the module the same way you added it. It shouldn't be possible to actually break Bawl from within Bawl. The worst you could (or should be able to) do is hide all the links which would require altering several checkboxes, at which point you could still append #BawlEdit to a page title to force-open the full page editor. I can already see someone posting an untested/bugged module on a village pump with instructions to add it, a user who doesn't know what a common.js is following those instructions and being completely lost when Bawl no longer opens. That being said, in theory you could write a module that manages modules.. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 20:07, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
┌─────────────────────┘ ...and it has a button to reload itself. That can't prevent me, or anyone else, from breaking it if I or they wanted to do so, but better than none. NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh20:19, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, I haven't had time yet to take a closer look, but it seems your script holds the answer to how to load Ace (editor). I've been meaning to add that as an option, though I suspect some of Bawl's features won't work anymore with Ace loaded. Also, I've changed some names in modules for consistency. For example "processFunc" is now "processCommentFunc". — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 13:39, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
Guarapiranga, yup. ConvenientDiscussions is self-declared incompatible with DiscussionTools (DT) and instructs the user to disable it. Flow uses a different PageContentModel which prevents DT (and many other things, including Bawl, CD and reply-link) from being loaded. IIRC reply-link (before my fork) assumed signature timestamps weren't followed by any HTML tag. DT adds HTML tags after the signature timestamp, so reply-link broke. Bawl and DT are capable of co-existing if you happen to need it. DT is currently the most widely used tool, so compatibility with DT can be a consideration. Even if only because perhaps you don't want to throw away your old shoes before you're sure the new ones are a good fit. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:46, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
Great! Thanks. Btw, I'm a new user (this is my very first reply with it). This is 'UGE! Good on you for making it. Here's my contribution: I miss having some sort of a 'like' button to comments in talk pages. Often, I just want to acknowledge someone's reply to me, without actually adding chatter. I just want to nod. Currently, I end up thanking the user for the comment, but that's not quite the same. I'm not quite sure how best to resolve this, but you've clearly dissected and thought through the whole WP talk dynamic more than mostly everyone else here, and may be in the best position to come up with something. — Guarapiranga☎23:32, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
Oh, wait, I now see you already included a like button! And I see it's for a public thank; not the nod I wanted, but better than what I had anyhow (I was using Evad37's TimestampDiffs.js and Thanky.js (in fact, I see your script replaces many other scripts for me).
Here's a question: I couldn't find a reply button to your comment after submitting my previous reply. Is that an option? Sometimes, like now, I want to add another reply (rather than editing my first one). I'm still going through the plethora of options you made available, and trying to figure out what they mean. In fact, here's another contribution: some of them are quite cryptic (like the bites that started this convo). And I haven't even activated the expert settings yet! Here are a couple of the ones that weren't evident to me:
Add fixed-position button to cycle through new comments
With an open reply form, repurpose permalink generator icons in the same section to insert links to comments
Guarapiranga, the public thank is the closest thing we have to a return receipt, I frequently use it for that purpose as well. Within MediaWiki the only non-public way to communicate is through Special:Email, and for notifications I'm limited by what MediaWiki offers. While "thanks" are public, I doubt anybody reads the logs. (well, unless you link the logs from your user page I suppose! so for you it's different. :-) ) So while not suitable if you need confidentiality, it typically won't be noticed by anyone but the recipient. I couldn't find a reply button to your comment after submitting my previous reply. Is that an option? Specifically that, I don't think so. There are some expert settings that can cause some or all speech balloons not to be rendered, but even those won't eat speech balloons that have already been rendered. Can you take a screenshot? It sounds quite odd to me, so this could be the result of a conflicting script/gadget. The feature comparison matrix needs to be updated, parts of it are outdated. And yes, the settings can be quite daunting. Any suggestions for clarification are most welcome. I plan to elevate some more settings to "expert" to make it less daunting. I'll try to improve the description of the settings you mentioned. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 00:54, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
1. Can you take a screenshot? Will do, as it comes up. Speaking of which... Can we paste images into Bawl (and it take care of the whole WM upload process in the background)? 2. Any suggestions for clarification are most welcome. Count on me. 3. I plan to elevate some more settings to "expert" to make it less daunting. Good idea. I haven't even looked into the expert settings, but if there's a lot there already, you can break into 3 levels: basic, intermediate, expert. 4. I'll try to improve the description of the settings you mentioned. Cheers. — Guarapiranga☎04:35, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
Guarapiranga, actually, somewhat popular indeed. One time the answer was "fix bug that breaks everything when someone posts sections encapsulated in a div". Otherwise the answer is usually "figure out which one of your other scripts is conflicting with Bawl". Does Bawl open when you visit Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#BawlEdit? Any messages on the browser console? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 05:45, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
1. Does Bawl open when you visit Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#BawlEdit? Yes. 2. Any messages on the browser console? Yes:
(I'm not quite sure what option translates url to wiki; I couldn't turn it off--Could Bawl perhaps not apply it to text within tags like pre, syntaxhighlight, etc.?). — Guarapiranga☎06:06, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
Guarapiranga, "Rewrite external URLs to internal ones where possible, clean internal links" which is an expert setting because there's generally no good reason to disable it. The protection procedure to avoid altering templates, pre, syntaxhighlight, etc can't be used because it also protects URLs. And there really is no good reason for a Wikimedia (or the youtu.be url shortener) URL to appear in tags. I haven't found a real world scenario yet where a URL was rewritten that shouldn't have been. But this doesn't seem to be the problem, it's complaining about safeText, the thing that protects pre, syntaxhighlight, templates, etc. Can you trigger the error reporter (settings, "bug?" link in the top right corner) after receiving the "too much recursion" error and file the report? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 08:54, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
@Guarapiranga, this is a runaway regex (in safeText) triggered by something in Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#How to give labels to specific objects in template? I didn't immediately notice because this doesn't happen until you post/preview. You have live preview enabled, so for you it happened right after opening the form. I'm investigating but this wouldn't have prevented you from commenting on VPT, just from editing the whole page or that section as a whole. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 20:15, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
Humm... Here's a bad one: this reply was inserted before the end of the previous reply to the same comment. One down, two up. I hope your 6000 lines of code don't turn out to be a Hydra 😬 — Guarapiranga☎01:02, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
Wait, now it's in the right place! Perhaps it was an post-submission interface glitch, but the edit went through correctly (and, incidentally, just as I was going to write this happened). — Guarapiranga☎01:27, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
Guarapiranga, aaah yes that makes sense. Bawl reads the timestamps from the HTML and searches for them in wikitext when you reply. If you have another gadget or script come in before Bawl and change up the signature timestamps there's nothing left to locate comments in wikitext. Unless, as you've noticed, the comment includes a locator which has proven to be much more resilient. This one really came out the wrong end. Exactly what appeared where? (screenshot?) Parse-in-place can sometimes glitch. The actual edit is typically fine. A hint: just look where the form opens. That's where your reply will be. If that's the wrong place, report it. (but provide as much detail as possible, preferably reproduction steps) I hope your 6000 lines of code don't turn out to be a Hydra 😬 Flow introduced a new PageContentModel to avoid many issues, which worked and also caused its demise, reply-link has a photo of a "bugs" bunny statue and only works on a few select projects, DiscussionTools has a very restricted feature set and eats resources like there's no tomorrow, and ConvenientDiscussions is CPU-hungry and 670K minified. (for comparison: Bawl is ~250K minified, reply-link probably ~45K minified but nobody knows because it doesn't compile) When it comes to tools for wikitext discussions, it seems you can only go two ways: make something with a limited scope, or build a hydra. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 03:12, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
Feature suggestion: Floating TOC
Alexis Jazz, I noticed Bawl has an option to collapse all non-talk page sections by default and hide ToC. I'm quite a fan of BrandonXLF's FloatingTOC.js; so much so that I forked it (at the time his had some transparency issue, which is fixed on mine--at least for me). That's another (small) feature you might want to consider. — Guarapiranga☎04:48, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
Mostly Done, sections don't uncollapse yet when clicking a section title in the ToC. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 08:25, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
That was fast, Alexis, thanks. Yeah, I was gonna say, most of Brandon's script is options mgt; the essence of it is just a couple of css changes:
position:fixed;bottom:10px;overflow:auto;
... and for me:
left:19px;
I just couldn't figure out how to put the TOC over the left panel (rather than under it) with css only (so my forking of Brandon's script was simply to append it to the body instead). — Guarapiranga☎10:09, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
Yeah, tried moving your floating TOC to the left with css, and ran into the same problem. I don't know how else to fix it but appending the TOC directly to body (if you want to offer the option, as BrandonXLF's FloatingTOC.js does (which, btw, is still incurring on the same transparency/layering problem when moved to the left)). — Guarapiranga☎03:21, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
Guarapiranga, I don't understand what you mean with "over the left panel (rather than under it)". Where exactly are you trying to put it? And Bawl already appends the floating TOC to body. I don't know what option from BrandonXLF's script you are referring to, I read your comment several times but I think there's a word missing. I tried BrandonXLF's script but it's throwing JS errors for me, so I I didn't learn much from that. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 06:31, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
I think there's a word missing Yeah, that happens a lot to me 😅
I don't understand what you mean with "over the left panel (rather than under it)". I prefer the TOC on the left, so that when I open it, it covers the left panel, not the article (on legacy vector). If the TOC or the entries on the left panel are long enough--mine is a mile long! 😅--they overlap, but on Brandon's and Bawl's case the TOC looks transparent (I suppose bc it's actually behind the panel, and the panel is transparent, bc changing TOC's opacity does nothing).
Guarapiranga, it does, probably a gadget conflict but I'm not too interested, I just wanted to know what you meant. I noticed those transparency/overlap issues when I simply moved the TOC into the corner and subsequently made Bawl append the TOC to <body>. So I don't understand why you're still having issues. Any other gadgets enabled that mess with the TOC? Does your TOC have the "BawlFloatingToC" class? Is it appended to body? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 07:17, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
Does your TOC have the "BawlFloatingToC" class? It does.
So I don't understand why you're still having issues. If you simply change BawlFloatingToC css' property right: 0 to left: 0 (or 19px to align with panel text), and scroll to the top of the page, do you not see both the left panel options and the TOC over each other, as if the one on top were transparent?
probably a gadget conflict That would explain why Brandon never did anything about that with his Floating TOC.
Guarapiranga, it's no longer enabled by default. I managed to accidentally post a message before I was done and there is (hopefully was) a problem with modifier keys getting "stuck" when the keyup event isn't registered. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 13:59, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
Feature request: add anchors to unanchored comments
I noticed only comments from Bawl users (who presumably have enabled this option) have a link icon at the end. Would it be possible to add that to all comments (creating anchors as needed)? CD has that, doesn't it? As an aside to that, I'd suggest a more discreet icon, or perhaps replacing it entirely by linking the timestamp instead, as Evad37 does in his TimestampDiffs.js (though it links to the diff instead). — Guarapiranga☎06:37, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
Guarapiranga, if you have enabled "Permalink generator for comments" you should see the link icon after both "legacy" (as I call them) signatures and locator signatures. If you enabled "When the reply form is open, use comment link icons in the same section to insert anchored links to those comments" you should be able to insert links for both within the same section as well. (though I notice it's not working for EricPupper above so I'll need to look into that) These use the same format as CD. If you can make a better icon (and release it into the public domain) I'll take a look at it. The current link icon is already the fifth iteration or so. It's quite hard to make a clear inline link icon. I used to link the timestamp, but that caused many problems (which might be solvable) but it wasn't intuitive in the end. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 08:23, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
Here are a few options from WM's own repo: , , Or perhaps it's just a matter of making it a little smaller, say 1.5em: In addition, it'd be lil' smoother to put it after the like, edit and reply icons, so they don't get carried over when clicking on it, and Bawl opens the link box. — Guarapiranga☎02:31, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
Guarapiranga, File:Feather-core-link.svg is fairly okay, but I'd have to include a 1K copyright notice for it, if it were PD I'd probably take it, but it isn't. It also doesn't work so well when scaled up, which could be an issue with the ever rising pixel density. And I actually remember playing around with a tilted link because going diagonal provides more pixels within the same width. It made the icons look messy. File:VisualEditor - Icon - Link.svg is way too abstract, I don't see a link in it, also, 1K copyright notice. File:Chain link icon.svg is not distinguishable from an infinity symbol, at least not at that size. And it's CC BY-SA which doesn't require a massive copyright notice, but it does require attribution "reasonable to the medium or means You are utilizing". IMHO a code comment no end user would ever see isn't all that reasonable. Maybe legally it is, maybe it isn't, but if I don't know for sure there will be very few, if any, people here who would know. Of course, I could ask Lessig, but I hate wasting his time. It would also restrict any screenshot that includes it to BY-SA. Bawl is WTFPL and if at all possible I'd like to keep it that way. Making the icon smaller may be possible, I'll have to try around a bit to see how it works out. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 06:08, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
Plus, as I turn on the night mode on my laptop, I notice all three icons I suggested are fully black and disappear on a dark background. Yours doesn't, bc it's grey. I just find a tad lil too big, but that's a matter of taste, and I can fix it on my css anyway. — Guarapiranga☎06:18, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
Actually, as it turns out, the link icon you put below the edit box is also all black, and fully disappears on a dark background. — Guarapiranga☎06:53, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
Yeah, that's better. I actually prefer the colour palette from the dark reader extension over the gadget's (plus the keyboard shortcut). Either way, now I can see the link icon under the edit window. Cheers. — Guarapiranga☎00:30, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
Another icon suggestion, Alexis: the icon you have for copying the link is typically used for cutting, not copying. The icon for copying is usually like this: — Guarapiranga☎12:20, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
Guarapiranga, sounds like a good use of common/global.css. I don't think a Bawl preference is required for this. Personally I don't feel strongly about 85% either way. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 06:46, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
Feature request
Alexis Jazz, I'd like it if the page didn't reload when you edit a section (and save it), but just showed the updated section, as when you reply (note that any categories etc. would hopefully be updated as well. Secondly, I don't think it's possible to reply to a bulleted subsection e.g.
=== Subsection (e.g. !vote) ===
* Yes - Foo
* No - Bar
Thirdly, can you allow me to edit new sections (e.g. this one after it was just posted) without reloading the page? ― Qwerfjkltalk09:35, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, for a vote there should either be an unindented signed message at the start to reply to (which in your example there isn't) or a BCL link (which isn't implemented on enwiki yet), I tried having a "reply to section" link at some point and abandoned the idea after a while in favor of "reply to section starter" links. IIRC there were some odd cases that I just couldn't work around. Wikitext discussions take many forms. Parse-in-place for sections.. oof. I... oof. It would never leave the experimental state. First I'd have to detect what part of the HTML constitutes the section (including subsections), that should be doable. Then you have categories, something Bawl is blissfully unaware of. Then you have references which will be misnumbered and won't appear in the references section but instead below the section so those would need moving and renumbering. Got any images in your section? Media Viewer will go AWOL. "[ edit ]" (for 2010 wikitext editor, not sure how VE would handle this, I assume equally poorly) links for the section and subsections, what would be better: missing or broken? Did you add or remove a (sub)section? Now all the "[ edit ]" links in subsequent sections are invalidated. Added a (sub)section with the same title? Now all the subsequent edit section-with-Bawl icons are invalidated as well. And all the Bawl icons to reply, edit, subscribe, etc will, of course, go AWOL. For the latter I could remove all the links from the page are reinitialize, which will break everything if archiverbot just passed by while you were editing. And collapsible sections (be it the Bawl feature, any other script/gadget or what Mobile view offers) will go haywire. These are just the issues that would arise from the top of my head. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:06, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz, I've been.thinking about this for a bit, and it is really annoying in CfD (and probably other XfD discussions) - I just want an indent equal to the starting comment. For the in-page update User:BrandonXLF/QuickEdit.js does it somehow, so presumably it's possible (maybe?). ― Qwerfjkltalk21:09, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, the in-page update I'm not sure what you're referring to here. Is it possible? Anything is possible. Is it a good idea? Errrr. The indentation on CfD is frankly a bit fucked. Ffs, why is the initial message indented, and why are commenters expected to reply on the same indentation level? I actually patched up Template:XfD relist to resolve a similar XfD problem with relisted discussions. This problem has many sides. Allowing the user to mess with the indentation is not something I want to offer in Bawl by default. It could be done with a module, but I don't want it in the main source, it's asking for trouble. Having some sort of "reply to section" option is also not something I plan to offer. Wikitext isn't standardized and just adding a comment to the bottom is in no way guaranteed to be a desirable result. Adding hax for XfD is also not something I want to do, I try to avoid project-specific hax as much as possible. And since XfD is non-compliant here (to the degree there is such a thing for wikitext), I'm definitely not adding hax to enable that. This leaves only a few options: 1. Fuck it. Reply to the nominator. If others don't do the same, their loss. This is also what DiscussionTools does, so this is not Bawl behaving badly. 2. Fuck the nominator's indentation. Edit the whole page and /:'''Nominator's rationale:'''/'''Nominator's rationale:'''/g:<<Fix XfD>> 3. Convince the XfD peeps to finally bugger off with that indentation for the nominator. They could use some visual indentation that actually isn't indentation in wikitext to achieve the same visual effect. I still think it's dumb for the nominator to be indented in any way, but whatever, at least it'd be compliant. 4. Get them to add BCL's. With a BCL you could append a comment to a section. In that case it's acceptable as a BCL would only be used in places where this is appropriate. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 04:33, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz, for the 'in-page update ', I mean if the page didn't reload when you edit a section (and save it), but just showed the updated section, as when you reply. QuickEdit.js seems to get the new page wikitext, generate a preview of the new page, and overwrite it on the old one (or.something like that). ― Qwerfjkltalk08:15, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, okay, now I get it. Actually, that one is Done. QuickEdit does some very interesting things. Your initial request I'd like it if the page didn't reload when you edit a section (and save it), but just showed the updated section, as when you reply isn't realistically possible due to the reasons I mentioned above. But that's not what QuickEdit does, QuickEdit always gets a parsed version of the whole page. This isn't necessarily much faster than just reloading, but it may feel faster. Some other scripts may get broken by this, that'll be beyond my control. I should probably add a option back in to get the old behavior for that. To get edit buttons for newly posted sections you'll have to change "After posting:" to "Parse comments in place". (default is "Parse comments and new sections in place") — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 08:49, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
┌─────────────────────┘ @Alexis Jazz, 1) Reparsing the page seems to break the 'reply to first post' at the end of the section move to the end of the page. 2) Would it be possible to only reparse the whole page when you edit section, not when you post a comment? ― Qwerfjkltalk08:03, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, I noticed the first issue, but it doesn't seem to happen consistently, need to take a closer look. Reproduction steps might help. And second, that's what it should be doing. "parse comments in place" and "parse comments and sections in place" should both reparse the page when editing a full page or section. Are you saying that for you it doesn't? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 08:26, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
DoneQwerfjkl, the piling up of "reply to section starter" icons at the bottom finally happened again for me so I could analyze it. It's probably fixed. Also I said I should probably add a option back in to get the old behavior for that. which is also done. (setting "Never re-parse the page, just reload instead") — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 17:29, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
Element types processed: FORM, INPUT, SPAN, P, LI, DD, I, SMALL
Additional information: Could not open form.
Probably because I had just created a section, and not reloaded the page.
Qwerfjkltalk09:33, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
DoneQwerfjkl, this is still fallout from the fix for the issue you reported at 14:50, 26 May 2022. The fix for that involved registering new comments in the internal administration, but I forgot to register an associated HTML element. When you try to open a form without an associated element, Bawl.appendToFirstBlockParent causes a JS error to be thrown. The not overly specific "open form failed" (recently added) was successfully triggered when no form was found open 2 seconds after trying to open one. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:44, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
You messed up! (I AM ERROR)
Now I only see the reply icons for comments posted with Bawl, even on mainspace talk pages, Alexis. Not sure what broke it, whether it was on my end or yours.
Replylinkparams:
{"int":394,"id":"heading-394","type":"heading","subtype":"edit","pageTitleInt":394,"origReplyTo":"","pageTitle":"Talk:Opinion polling for the 2022 Australian federal election","sectionTitle":"Where are those 2PP election numbers from?","sectionseq":0}
Even this post is not showing the reply & like icons for me (though my and your other comments on the page are).
Also: clicking Bawl's section edit for this section strangely opens my first topic here in the edit window (I had to resort to WP's snail source editor to write this comment 😄). — Guarapiranga☎10:32, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
Guarapiranga, I'd guess this was related to when WP:LOCO was loaded which could depend on network delays and cache. Still having any issues with that? I see the issue with the section edit opening for the wrong section, this is probably because there are many similarly named sections here. I haven't found the time to fix that yet. The cause is that section titles in the HTML can't be converted to wikitext to search for. Wouldn't be an issue if section titles were guaranteed to be nothing but plain text. As a workaround I had made the section match check more fuzzy, too fuzzy for this page. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 10:20, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
{"int":361,"id":"heading-361","type":"heading","subtype":"edit","pageTitleInt":361,"origReplyTo":"","pageTitle":"User talk:Alexis Jazz/Bawl","sectionTitle":"You messed up! (I AM ERROR)","sectionseq":5}
Page: User_talk:Alexis_Jazz/Bawl @ enwiki
Page loaded at: 28/05/2022, 11:47:42
Error occured at: 28/05/2022, 11:50:48 UTC
My settings:
Skin: vector
# of .BawlLinks: 231
# of elements processed: 378
Element types processed: FORM, INPUT, LI, SPAN, P, DD, I, SMALL
{"int":1792,"id":"heading-1792","type":"heading","subtype":"edit","pageTitleInt":1792,"origReplyTo":"","pageTitle":"Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)","sectionTitle":"How to give labels to specific objects in template?","sectionseq":0}
Element types processed: LI, SPAN, P, I, INPUT, DD, SMALL
Additional information: After attempting to submit, success was not detected after 10 seconds. Sometimes an edit takes longer, but this may indicate something went wrong.
Guarapiranga, this was probably that runaway regex from safeText that was triggered by something in that particular section. This shouldn't be happening anymore. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 10:36, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
You messed up! (open form failed)
Alexis Jazz, you messed up! Or did I? Not sure what I did wrong...
Guarapiranga, does this issue still exist? Any messages on the browser console? You were attempting to reply to your "geez!" comment above, 6 minutes later you succeeded. Maybe something else failed previously or you were very quick: if there is an element with a purple background (which generally indicates an ongoing process or a process that halted) the form won't open by design. If you post a comment and try to open another form after the the form has closed but before the purple background of the new comment fades away, in theory you'd have a small window to trigger an error. I need to detect that situation and handle it better. But I can only speculate as to whether that's how this error was triggered in this case. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 11:22, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
This one I think was triggered by the script itself; it crashed, I didn't click the bug report link. It opened that pink(?) screen by itself, and asked me to file the report. So I did. — Guarapiranga☎00:16, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
Bawl didn't work for me till I disabled this gadget which I had previously enabled in my preferences. I understand that the basic functionality can also be had with Bawl by the "Display signature dates in local time", but the Local time gadget also provides more options for formatting dates. Hemantha (talk) 12:15, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
Hemantha, this will require a gadget-specific hack which I'm not fond of, but due to the popularity of "Comments in Local Time" I'll do it in the next update. And only because Comments in Local Time includes the original timestamp in the title, otherwise it would be impossible. I'll also implement some of the missing features. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 13:30, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
DoneHemantha, Guarapiranga, I added CommentsInLocalTime hax two days ago and just added a relative time option. Date processing is always messy so there may be bugs. It's not exactly the same as CommentsInLocalTime. I don't think months or days are useful in "5 years, 2 months and 4 days ago", so up to 62 days you just get "n days ago", up to 2 years you just get "n months ago" and beyond that you get "n years ago". — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 05:11, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
Element types processed: LI, P, SPAN, I, DD, SMALL, S, DEL
Additional information: After attempting to submit, success was not detected after 10 seconds. Sometimes an edit takes longer, but this may indicate something went wrong. I think the content I was trying g to move hadn't fully loaded - there was just grey in the input box.
Qwerfjkl, hmm. I only disabled Bawl.UITextInput while preloading wikitext. I'll disable the whole form so at least you won't have the illusion you can submit. But.. this is impossible. IMPOSSIBLE! You were on Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 197, mkay. And you opened Bawl, mkay. But there is no pageTitle in your replyLinkParams! This was never going to work. But even stranger: you were editing a section on an archive page with __NOEDITSECTION__! That's impossible! You can't do that! There is no .mw-editsection! Witchcraft I tell you!— Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 11:27, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, I don't think that's it either. That script actually produces edit section links that are close enough to the real thing to actually work with Bawl. I wonder what $('.mw-editsection')[1].parentElement.outerHTML is for you on that page. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 22:07, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
Feature question/suggestion: Does Bawl have an option for enabling keyboard shortcuts?
Alexis, when I press ctrl-b, the highlighted text shows in the source editor window marked with markupdown (**) rather than wiki syntax ('''). Is that how you intended it? — Guarapiranga☎00:31, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
Guarapiranga, and italic shows up as slashes. It's the same as Markdown. The two/three single quotes from wiki syntax are ambigious in many situations, mainly because they overlap, but also because single quotes occur in running text regularly. Rhetorical question: how would you interpret '''they see me ''rollin''', they hatin''''? In writing that example I've accidentally uncovered a MediaWiki bug. I rest my case. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 03:09, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
Oh, a case you have, Alexis, no doubt. But... do you really expect Bawl's users to be conversant in anything other than mw markup? Interestingly, after bolding with ctrl-b, and switching the editor to visual and back, the bold markdown is now an html <b> tag. — Guarapiranga☎04:52, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
Guarapiranga, I expect nothing. You can use single quote markup as much as you want, in source mode Bawl ignores it. I see you found some cases (related to VisualLight) where it's not handled correctly, this is probably because I made the decision to drop single quote markup after VisualLight was implemented. However, after I fix this, switching between source and visual will cause single quote markup to be converted into Markdown markup. The visual editor contains HTML which gets converted to wikitext, so at that point the original syntax is lost. Frankly, wikitext should follow Bawl here - not the other way around. Single quote markup is a PITA. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 05:18, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
Feature suggestion: Select+reply = quote
How about an option (or simply default functionality) that opens the reply box with a quote of the selected text (if any), in addition to the mention? — Guarapiranga☎00:45, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
Hi Alexis, why did you file an ANI for this? You say it was made "intentionally difficult", linking WP:Notability. What was the incident? Isn't your request for help there more suited for WP:VPT than WP:ANI? Do you really need the template? I don't really 'get' the green font thing with {{tq}}, so I don't use it; I typically format talk quotes with double quotes or italics, however I see is the clearest in the context (I do like {{tq2}} for quoting policies and RS though). I think you can format Bawl's talk quotes however you like; you don't have to chain it to the template (or, better yet, in the vein of Bawl's fully customisable experience, you can set the default, and give us the option to change it). — Guarapiranga☎23:57, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
Guarapiranga, I didn't link WP:Notability, I linked d:Wikidata:Notability. That page literally says "the software intentionally makes this difficult". Technically either a template editor or an administrator could do it, but considering the impact if whoever does this has their internet explode right before they can revert themselves, some increased visibility for the request won't hurt. It's not your everyday edit request. I'm not adding this feature for you, I'm adding it because I believe editors in general may find it useful. If I don't encapsulate the quote in {{tq}} the next feature request will be "now make the quote encapsulated in tq", and that's how I'd want it anyway. You can write another regex to replace tq with whatever you prefer. /\{\{tq\|(([^\}]|\}[^\}])*)\}\}/"$1"/g seems to work. If you intentionally want to use {{tq}} you could use {{Tq}} (capitalized), {{TQ}} or {{talk quote inline}}. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 03:56, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
I'm not adding this feature for you You aren't?? 😨 I linked d:Wikidata:Notability. Need new glasses. 😅 I'm adding it K. Lemme know when ready to test. — Guarapiranga☎04:39, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
DoneGuarapiranga, module on User:Alexis Jazz/Bawl/Mumbo jumbo#Modules to change the encapsulation. (or use a regex) Not enabled by default as I expect it could confuse users. Also note that Bawl is unaware about the exact beginning and end of any given comment (I know, right?), so you could select text anywhere in #mw-content-text and it'll be used for a quote, even if it wasn't written by the user you're mentioning. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 13:51, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
so you could select text anywhere in #mw-content-text and it'll be used for a quote, even if it wasn't written by the user you're mentioning. That's a feature, not a defect. 😉 — Guarapiranga☎07:38, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
Reverse section order != TOC order
I'm trying out the reverse section order option--it's quite nifty. There is a little nuisance though (which I'm not sure you want to do anything about): the TOC remains in the original order. — Guarapiranga☎00:48, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
Cool, Alexis, but now Bawl is also reversing the order of sections in non-talk WP pages (e.g. WP:RFC). Maybe it was before already, and I didn't have time to notice it. I guess you did that to accommodate WP:VP et al. Not sure how you'll be able to tell them apart though. — Guarapiranga☎12:11, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
DoneGuarapiranga, yeah that's rather complicated. Talk namespaces are talk namespaces, mw.config.get('wgExtraSignatureNamespaces') contains Wikipedia: and Help:, the presence of an "add new section" button is an indicator (the absence of "add new section" doesn't guarantee the page is not a talk page though) and so is the presence of locators. As section reversal happens after links have been added, I can also check for the presence of "legacy" signatures at that point, which Bawl now does. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 05:23, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
Feature suggestion: Comment thanks counter
No idea how computationally intensive this would be, but it'd be cool to see a counter of how many people thanked someone for their comment. — Guarapiranga☎04:41, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
I'm baffled. How does Bawl know which comments I've already thanked, showing a red heart, from one session to another then? — Guarapiranga☎10:59, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
Guarapiranga, simple. It's sorcery. Actually, take a look at JSON.parse(window.localStorage.BawlThanks), after thanking 500 comments it'll start to develop amnesia. To elaborate, technically it's maybe possible, but the counter would only reflect thanks that were given by Bawl users, there would probably be performance and/or accuracy issues and it would not be trivial to put together. So I don't plan to pursue this. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 04:12, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
{"int":294,"id":"heading-294","type":"heading","subtype":"edit","pageTitleInt":294,"origReplyTo":"","pageTitle":"Wikipedia talk:Correct typos in one click","sectionTitle":"Airing (air circulation)","sectionseq":0}
Qwerfjkl, your attempted removal wasn't the problem, the problem was Wikipedia talk:Correct typos in one click#Erroneous snippet inclusion which has 2 section headers that aren't section headers because they are in pre-tags. So instead of editing section 25, it became 27. Now I count the section number on a safed version of the wikitext so this issue should be resolved. In theory some problems could still arise if such false section headers would have titles that exactly match the title of the section you are trying to edit. That would be harder to fix as I can't extract the section text from a safed version. Well, I could, but I couldn't easily unsafe that so it would be littered with placeholders. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 10:40, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
Done I was wrong about being unable to extract from the safed version. The solution was to insert markers for the start and end of the section in the safed version instead of extracting the section right away. Unsafe it and extract the section using the markers. Maybe I make it sound easy. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 17:15, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
Question: Can I change the source editor font to monospaced?
Guarapiranga, "Use monospace font in editing window by default" on the editing tab. Maybe you need to wait for me to implement the settings filter you requested below to be able to find it. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 07:15, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
You really went for the "fully customisable" experience, Alexis; so much so that I've quite often found myself fumbling through all the options to find the one I had seen (Which tab was it on again?). The fact that some of them simply disappear (rather than displayed as unavailable, "greyed out") when a 'parent' option is disabled (even if it's not a requirement, e.g. sticky TOC vs collapsible sections) only adds to the confusion. How about then including a search field for the options menu, do that users can quickly locate the options they need? — Guarapiranga☎15:03, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
Feature request: Auto-mentions on a first name basis
This is very low priority... I love the auto-mention, but I'd love it even more if I could customise it. As you may have noticed it, I like addressing people by their first name, when they provide one (whether the 1st word in their username is really their first name is beside the point). So, every time I talk to you, Alexis, I add Alexis after the pipe in [[User:Alexis Jazz|]]. It'd be cool if I could customise the mention label with a lil regex (User:([^ ]+)) to pick up the first name (it's easier to erase it back to the simple pipe trick if I want the full name, than to type it out every time if I don't). — Guarapiranga☎00:45, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
Guarapiranga, "Enable custom regular expressions that are applied to comments only" on the "Editing" tab in settings, add /\[\[User:([^ ]*)( [^\|]*)\|\]\]/[[User:$1$2|$1]]/g. Applies on preview and submit. Combine this with /\[\[User:([^ ]*)( [^\|]*)\| \]\]/[[User:$1$2|$1$2]]/g to enter the whole name by replacing the first name with a space. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 01:21, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
Awesome, Alexis! Worked like a charm. To those who prefer the other way around--default to full name, space for first name only, I guess one only really needs one regex: /\[\[User:([^ ]*)( [^\|]*)\| \]\]/[[User:$1$2|$1]]/g— Guarapiranga☎04:40, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
Feature suggestion: Add a Bawl's settings link somewhere else in addition to the bottom of the msg form
I'm just as happy opening a msg form just to then click the settings icon, but since Bawl has so many features that go beyond the msg box (e.g. collapsible sections, timestamps, etc.), that you may want to consider adding another link somewhere else (More menu, Tools left panel, or even a cog icon next to the New section one). — Guarapiranga☎05:54, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
Guarapiranga, oh damn it. :-( No scripts or gadgets can ever be loaded on Special:Preferences it seems. :-/ Dark mode doesn't work there either. Well that was a waste of time.. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 02:53, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
Guarapiranga, scrapped the fake tab. If I can't have it on Special:Preferences which was a reasonable place for it, so be it. I dislike litter, settings are not something that should have a dedicated link on every single page. For reference, mw.util.addPortletLink can be used for this kind of thing, but I'd rather not. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 05:56, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
Bug report - I dont even know
Alexis Jazz: During a conversation at Module talk:Excerpt, I noticed that the person who I was talking to who was using Bawl! kept accidentally replacing the previous section with a duplicate of the current section (???). I'm assuming this is the result of Bawl!, as I dont see how else this would've happened. Any ideas as to what the hell happened there? (Example diff). Aidan9382(talk)10:03, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
Aidan9382, Bawl selected the wrong section number. Must be a bug, I recently made some changes to that, I'll look into it. You'd be surprised how difficult it is to obtain a section number. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 10:15, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz:, Whenever I want to start a new section it just opens up an editing area at the bottom of rather than bringing me to a separate new section editing page. I can see why this is beneficial but there are no ways to circumvent this.
It might be wise that there's an option that if you click twice (2x) on the text balloon above that it will do it in the traditional "New section" way. --Donald Trung (talk) 08:30, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
Donald Trung, Imma move this section if you don't mind.. This is part bug and part DiscussionTools (DT) being crappy. The bug part is that I only checked if you have DT's "new topic" option enabled when I should have also checked if you have DT's beta features enabled which "new topic" is a part of. If you didn't have the beta feature enabled but did have the "new topic" option selected, which you actually can't see or change when the DT's beta features are disabled, Bawl assumed DT's "new topic" feature was active when in fact, it was not. This was probably the case for you. The DT being crappy part is that when DT's "new topic" feature actually is active, it will perform a hostile takeover of pages with the URL parameters action=edit§ion=new. Instead of an edit window, you are suddenly viewing the page and DT appends its "new topic" form. In this event, the "new section" wikitext editor is not available. Maybe there's a hidden feature for it, but there's certainly no obvious way. This is why Bawl didn't offer a way to open the traditional "new section" page: because it believed DT's "new topic" feature was active, and when DT's "new topic" feature is active the traditional "new section" page is inaccessible. It should be better now. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 10:07, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, Ah, that explains a lot. I really hope that this new feature won't completely replace the old one. It's like with the MediaSearch on the Wikimedia Commons, while adding a lot of improvements, basically broke most of the search function and made in impossible to make new pages through redlinks in the search feature. It's like in that case it was so focused on content consumption that they forgot about content creation. In this case they forgot how handy it could be to actually have a separate window and that wasn't even option by holding the button / right-clicking the button. There's an inherent disconnect between the people who make these features and the majority of the people that use them. But thanks for fixing it, it made starting new topics on long pages a lot easier. --Donald Trung (talk) 06:54, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
Donald Trung, indeed. I poked around a bit, figured they wouldn't do the hostile takeover when there's a preload set as DT -predictably- doesn't support those. And this is indeed true. So as long as they don't add support for that, the wikitext editor is accessible. Bawl detects this situation (DT beta+new topic enabled, Bawl's "hide DT" setting enabled and the URL matching the expected pattern) and appends preloadparams (that do nothing as there's no preload page set) to force the wikitext editor to open on long-press/middle-click/etc on Bawl's "new section" icon. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 10:06, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
Donald Trung, but these events actually inspired me to do a little takeover of my own. But this one is non-hostile: Bawl loads automatically on section=new (but not if you get there through a Bawl bug report or by long-pressing Bawl's new section icon). But unlike DT you can always just press cancel to get the regular editor. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:29, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
Feature request: Auto-mention when adding new section on a user's talk page
Guarapiranga, I'll write a module that does this, at least it'll make for an interesting module example. It's pointless though. The recipient is already getting a notification because of the talk page message. 'nuff said. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 05:43, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
Bawl takes addons?! Crafty! Yeah, ok. I thought it was an oversight, not a deliberate choice. Well, FWIW, even if redundant, it's still nice to say people's name when talking to them... Alexis. — Guarapiranga☎05:47, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
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Element types processed: SPAN, DD, I, SMALL, LI, P, S
Additional information: After attempting to submit, success was not detected after 10 seconds. Sometimes an edit takes longer, but this may indicate something went wrong. Might be because I attempted a module. Qwerfjkltalk17:30, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
Well, I modified the module.and now it just doesn't work:
By the way, Bawl changed some ** and / / in that code snippet, and again here, which is a.minor bug (I used <!---> to break up the text). Off-topic, is there be some way to insert a 'paste' button, or more generally, tie functions to buttons? ― Qwerfjkltalk21:33, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, By the way, Bawl changed some ** and / / in that code snippet, and again here, which is a.minor bug Uh oh! Wait, what's this? "2":"/\\/\\//''/g","3":\"/\\*\\*/'''/g" *hands one trout to Qwerfjkl* (plus a Self-trout because there's a bug here as well) is there be some way to insert a 'paste' button, or more generally, tie functions to buttons? By "button" do you mean a UI button (like a custom insert) or a keyboard button? Actually I guess for both the answer is "a module". Your module can't work I think. It appears to be based on the SOFIXIT example module above which overwrites Bawl's convertToOneLineCmt function, which is a terrible idea btw. You create an unused "fixIndent" function instead. Before the actual edit takes place, you set commentTextIndex if the indentation consists of two asterisks. I've never heard of commentTextIndex so that wouldn't do anything either. On User:Qwerfjkl/common.js (Diff 1091497381) you tried to perform a .replace on commentTextIndex, but commentTextIndex is undefined so that threw a JS error, halting the script. *hands over another trout* I hope you like fish. :-) — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 01:51, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
Alexis, I found this issue: When typing a msg in the middle of the text, the cursor keeps jumping to the end of it. I reckon it's just after regex. Also, there's this nuisance that when breaking the text with ↵ Enter to open a new line, the newline keeps getting replaced out (as part of the same regex I reckon). — Guarapiranga☎21:04, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
Guarapiranga, I'm not sure I can solve this properly. Sure, technically anything can be solved, but am I willing to through the trouble? Here's the issue: VisualLight is clever but influenceable. Live preview is a little problem child. I dislike the concept of live previews in general: they are not very responsive by design due to network delays, I find them distracting and they require a disproportional amount of resources, having the whole message parsed dozens of times for a single comment. That's mostly a strain for the WMF servers to handle, but that doesn't mean I don't care at all. Also, on battery-powered devices, the constant stream of traffic could prevent the network interface from entering some standby state as you type, thus draining your battery. I implemented it anyway because some people love it, but I don't use it myself. When you put the clever but influenceable VisualLight in a room together with live preview, they start tearing down the walls. It's my fault, I probably shouldn't have allowed you to configure it that way to begin with. The solution I implemented here is to simply disable live preview when VisualLight is active. Some further technical insight (stop reading whenever you get bored): preview (live or otherwise) sends wikitext to the server to be parsed. Wikitext is kept in the source field. (Bawl.UITextInput) To make a preview happen with VisualLight enabled, the visual field is synced to the source field first which involves transforming HTML to wikitext. (Bawl.syncToSource) Complicated enough. Any change to source field will trigger the source field to get synced to the visual field. (Bawl.syncToVisual) Various operations (for example inserts and AWB RegExTypoFix) are applied to the source field only and VisualLight counts on the synchronization. This generally resets the cursor (caret) position, which isn't a problem because the field loses focus when you press "preview" or "submit" anyway. But not with live preview. With live preview, you'd expect to keep focus. In source mode that's doable because nothing has to be synced and there is only one node. In visual mode, you have an anchor node, a focus node, an offset in both and to complicate matters further the nodes are destroyed when you sync to visual. Probably the primary reason for your issue is that in visual mode a newline results in the creation of an empty div. (though this might vary depending on the browser) After syncing back and forth, this div becomes a break instead and it seems browsers don't quite deal with this as expected if no text follows the break. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 07:27, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
Guarapiranga, so this didn't happen always but only when a regular expression was applied. Please try to be as descriptive as possible when filing a bug report and state literally and exactly under what conditions something happens. Anyway, Done. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 06:30, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
Guarapiranga, I'm sorry, you found many issues and that's really really good, but it makes me wonder if this will ever leave the development stage. Every time I thought I was nearly done another issue arises. It's frustrating and it makes me grumpy. I should have just read the report better and not make assumptions about when something happens. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 07:30, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
You're being too hard on yourself, Alexis. I'm still pretty excited about Bawl; otherwise I wouldn't be chipping in with the testing, reports and suggestions. To me, those are wrinkles we're ironing out. — Guarapiranga☎09:31, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
You messed up! (username+timestamp Alexis_Jazz+1654337241140 not found, seq: 0)
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Page: User_talk:Alexis_Jazz/Bawl @ enwiki
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Error occured at: 06/06/2022, 06:53:33 UTC
My settings:
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# of elements processed: 886
Element types processed: H1, FORM, INPUT, LI, I, SPAN, P, DD, SMALL, DEL
Additional information: Username/timestamp combination not found.
I was literally writing the previous edit when it didn't allow me to click "publish", really odd.
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Page: User_talk:Modernist @ enwiki
Page loaded at: 08/06/2022, 23:52:19
Error occured at: 08/06/2022, 23:53:01 UTC
My settings:
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Additional information: Insertion point not found.
I was just replying using the blue bubble. (I'm loving bawl by the way). My reply was "I see, that explains it. Thanks Modernist" Edit: Error still continues, I had to reply using "edit source". AdrianHObradors (talk) 23:55, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
AdrianHObradors, thank you for the praise. :-) I can reproduce the issue. (this is always good news) Bawl determines section numbers on its own (because section numbers change if archiverbot passes by while you are reading) and this is where the error is. Bawl determined the section number as 294 when it is in fact 295 and it extracted the text for section 292 instead of 295. That's probably two bugs, I suspect one of them is something that was already on my radar as a theoretical issue. (a slight difference in how the section number is determined and how section text is extracted) It's a very long page and it probably contains one or more unclosed tags or code examples that somehow confuse Bawl. I'm looking into this. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 06:08, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
When I include a table in my reply, Bawl doesn't quite get it, replacing newlines with <br>, and once I fix it with another editor, if I attempt to edit it with Bawl, it doesn't include the table as part of the reply (even with a Bawl-tagged signature at the end of the comment). — Guarapiranga☎06:27, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
This may be related: editing my comment here shows only the signature; the list in the msg seems to break Bawl's understanding of where the comment begins. — Guarapiranga☎06:53, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
Guarapiranga, not a bug. This is a feature request. DiscussionTools doesn't support this either and I doubt anything does. When you try to post a table with DT, this happens. And when you replied to that with DT, the result was a heaping pile of dung. This was a Phabricator task which is a prime example of WMF excellence: they patched the buggy behavior and... BAZINGA! They didn't fix anything, they just detect the condition and serve an error message. An error message without a kitty. But this is understandable, obviously this is the best that's technically achievable, there is absolutely no way that scratch that Bawl doesn't care about your broken tables. With colon indentation the table itself can be fixed relatively easily with {{Truenewline}} but alas this doesn't work with asterisk indentation so it's useless. It would only confuse users when tables work with one indentation type but not the other. Currently the solution for this is "use HTML". (or BBCode) The only way I see to support wikitables is by full conversion to HTML and back. That is, unless there's a way to make wikitables on a single line with asterisk indentation work. But wikitable syntax is HELL. Procrastination is a wonderful thing. You have manually altered your comment and added line breaks. You can't expect Bawl to still detect your whole comment. One comment, one line - that's a rule and it shall not be broken. I ripped multiline comment support out of Bawl at an early stage and I didn't regret that decision for a second since. Just edit the whole section if you need to edit multiline comments. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 01:05, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
You have manually altered your comment and added line breaks. You can't expect Bawl to still detect your whole comment. Don't you anchor the beginning and end of comments by their signatures? Why care about linefeeds (if you don't mind me asking)? — Guarapiranga☎05:34, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
Guarapiranga, the end? Yes. The beginning? No. Should I? Meh, maybe. Don't need it that badly and it might confuse non-Bawl users who read the source. More important than that, I really really really really don't want to get involved with multiline indentation. There's not enough Tylenol in the world to deal with that. And when you edit a comment, it's not as straightforward as just dumping the wikitext in Bawl.UITextInput. (but for section editing, it is!!) Ideally what you originally entered comes right back. There's still work on that front, but with multiline I'd have to start asking questions about indentation. Include the indentation in the edit window? Hell no. Store the indentation elsewhere and re-insert it later? Errr, what do I do with newly added lines in that case? One comment, one line. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 18:13, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
Yeah, FWIW, one thing I don't really like about Bawl is this translation from wikitext to html, Alexis. I know they render the same, but as a wiki editor, whenever I want to reedit my comment (on any other editor), I end up rewriting it back to wikitext, so I can 'see' through the code. I understand you need this for some of the processing (bc of ambiguities in wikitext, etc.), but perhaps you could translate it back to wikitext when publishing the comment (since html is, presumably, unambiguous). — Guarapiranga☎01:21, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
Guarapiranga, the only way this could possibly happen, ever, at all, is if I took away the ability to edit comments. And even if I did that, there would be some other complications. The real question is why you feel the need to edit your comment using a different editor instead of just editing the comment. If there's a reason other than force of habit perhaps that could be worked on. And if you can do better, just fork it. It's WTFPL. Doesn't get more free than that. I even wrote an example module that screws up comments. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 10:56, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
My work on tables has revealed all kinds of problems with multiline indentation. Pretty sure I read somewhere MediaWiki has a special exception for tables indented with colons. I definitely have no plans to support multiline indentation in any form, this project is complicated enough already. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 10:24, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
Guarapiranga, many hours of swearing later this is Done. Mostly. Probably. Some syntax may not work, but various examples from Help:Table seemed okay. For some reason MediaWiki thinks ! Row header A !! Cell B !! Cell C and ! Row header A || Cell B || Cell C are the exact same thing, acting as if the table cells in the latter are table headers. Bawl disagrees. I'm going to consider that a MediaWiki bug and call it a day. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 10:33, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
You messed up! (submit_timeout_button)
Alexis Jazz, you messed up! I was trying to.. hahaha I got an error again, on... this page! I was answering to you saying "Alexis Jazz, glad to hear! And what can I say, if instead of commenting I get a kitty, that is a win in my book :)". I like the kitty. Don't know if it is the same bug, but I will upload it again, I suppouse you have more control over this page and more test cases are always good
Replylinkparams:
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Page: User_talk:Alexis_Jazz/Bawl @ enwiki
Page loaded at: 09/06/2022, 08:51:12
Error occured at: 09/06/2022, 08:53:03 UTC
My settings:
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Skin: vector
# of .BawlLinks: 291
# of elements processed: 988
Element types processed: H1, FORM, INPUT, LI, I, SPAN, P, DD, SMALL, DEL, S
Additional information: After attempting to submit, success was not detected after 10 seconds. Sometimes an edit takes longer, but this may indicate something went wrong.
AdrianHObradors, this one I can't reproduce. Is it reproducible for you? If it is, could you open the browser console and look for any warnings or errors showing up when you submit? Everything in the report seems fine, so a JS error that caused the script to halt seems most likely. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 10:05, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, Seems not. Perhaps bawl has achieved hyper intelligence and knew that I said I liked that cat and just wanted to show it to me again? If will save the errors from the console if something goes wrong again! AdrianHObradors (talk) 10:08, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
Feature request. Ctrl + Enter to submit comments
Alexis Jazz, I'd like to be able to use Ctrl + Enter to Submit comments, instead of having to click the button. I did a quick search through the settings and didn't find it, so excuse me if it is already there! Thanks Alexis! AdrianHObradors (talk) 00:53, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, Done. Though I don't understand why that move would fail. If there had been a kitty I assume you would have submitted the error report. Maybe there was a JS error, but I can't think of a reason for one to occur at that specific point. (there wasn't much code between the section removal and section addition) Sure, you entered the wrong target (you presumably intended to move to Wikipedia talk:AutoWikiBrowser, not Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser) but the move should have been completed anyway. Unless you realized your error after pressing submit and panic-closed your browser or something. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:03, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz, there was a kitty, but I didn't submit an error report (I've been having a few 'false errors' with timeouts). I didn't do anything like closing the page. ― Qwerfjkltalk13:10, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
Bawl beta has got to be the best-kept secret on Wikipedia. I'm so happy I stumbled upon this. I don't remember the last time I installed a new piece of software, and just going through the settings was like Christmas morning: Oh my god, just what I always wanted: reverse section order! And typo fixes? Permalink comments?! And autocollapse?! You can even edit comments after posting them, with diff preview!! Gonna change my wiki-life. Thank you for making this!! Levivich16:37, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
Levivich, thank you so much. I haven't advertised it too much because I'm still fixing bugs. I'm also still working on a handful of additional features. And with modules Christmas never has to end. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 23:23, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, that code isn't used anywhere yet and barely works. I was working on that when Adrian reported an issue I wanted to fix right away. Normally I wouldn't publish code in that state, put I didn't want to create some separate branch or risk accidentally breaking everything by removing the unfinished code. I copied parts from QFN to see which parts are actually needed, when it works I strip away what isn't needed. I'm a bit puzzled on how I'm supposed to synchronize ace editor with the textarea. (both ways) Clicking the button to enable/disable the ace editor works but shouldn't be needed. There will be some credit in the code comments, but it's simply unfinished. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 01:30, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
Bug report
Alexis Jazz, I found this issue: Bawl incorrectly changes the following wikitext (with HTML entities to stop it breaking:
*<code><source></code> → <code><syntaxhighlight lang=""></code>
*<code></source></code> → <code></syntaxhighlight></code>
*<code><source</code> → <code><syntaxhighlight</code>
(task 10). Can an interface admin run the replacements on the remaining pages, mostly userspace .js and .css pages?
@Alexis Jazz, you'll be able to tell if you replace the HTML entities with real characters, but fragments of a {{#tag:syntaxhighlight...}} appeared in the preview. ― Qwerfjkltalk07:16, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, I don't understand what was the expected result and what happened instead. I don't see it. All I see, which may or may not be related at all, is that putting nowiki tags within syntaxhighlight on purpose results in the nowiki tags getting parsed when they shouldn't as syntaxhighlight is expected to prevent that. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:56, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz, here's what I get if I post the abive:
<source> →
</code>
*<code></source></code> → <code>
<source → <syntaxhighlight(task 10). Can an interface admin run the replacements on the remaining pages, mostly userspace .js and .css pages?
Qwerfjkl, you have an opening syntaxhighlight tag and a closing syntaxhighlight tag, on different lines, so they get processed. Putting the second line first actually makes it work. So does replacing the first < of the syntaxhighlight on the first line with <. There are several tags with a nowiki effect, nowiki, syntaxhighlight, pre, maybe I forget some. When you nest a complete set of one of those in the other across multiple lines (because within the same line that #tag conversion isn't triggered), bad things happen. Fixing this would require some level of understanding of which tags have the deepest nesting level. Which sounds like quite a bit of work for an edge case which can be worked around. If someone writes a detailed description of how to do it, or better yet, a patch with the same license as Bawl, I could look into that. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 10:38, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, for this particular case (code-nowiki tags containing something), here's a regular expression to add to your "custom regular expressions that are applied to comments only":
That code-nowiki specific replacement is now part of vanilla Bawl as I expect it to do more good than bad. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 17:34, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
Bug report
Alexis Jazz, I found this issue: The 2010 wikitext editor doesn't work when editing full section. Also, live preview doesn't work when adding new section. Aside from that, this is definitely a wonderful feature that no other discussion tool have. Updating Bawl using Bawl itself seems easier than ever? NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh16:04, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, thank you. Can you do the I am error thing so I can see your settings? (rather crucial in this case) Can you better describe "doesn't work"? Not there, malfunctioning, error, loads but doesn't submit, etc? Full section editing and live preview for new sections work for me. There's still a limitation regarding custom inserts: I can't get the range direction from CodeEditor. I know the focus offset from .codeEditor-status-line and the range is also in there, but it doesn't say if the anchor is before or after the focus, so the range could be two things. Do you maybe know how to get the range direction? And for CodeMirror it's worse, I don't even have the focus for that atm. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 16:58, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz: I tried to do something similar, then I realize normal guidelines for Ace users are just unsuitable for us Wikimedians. As for my preferences, here they are:
DoneNguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, in some cases the right editor wasn't selected. I've improved this. Live preview wasn't working with CodeMirror, it should work now. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 23:14, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, I dunno, it works for me. When you have an issue that isn't easily reproducible more information is always needed. Just do the "I am error" thing on the form where CodeMirror isn't loading. When you say "not loaded at all" do you mean it's not active or is there literally no $('#mw-editbutton-codemirror')[0]? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 23:50, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, VERY important distinction. As you didn't change your preferences, it's probably working as intended. You are presumably talking about commenting (I made the error reporter so I wouldn't have to guess these things, but if you won't use it..) and you didn't change the default editor for commenting (the dropdown) and you also didn't enable "Enable switching between editors" so you couldn't have tried to activate the 2010 wikitext editor with a button either. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 00:07, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, for comments? "Default editor for comments and new sections:" dropdown. That's a dropdown because there are three options. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:30, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
Levivich, I don't see a problem here. Newlines are converted to <br/> (which works on every project, local templates like {{break}} are too unpredictable) and bullet points were converted to ul+li tags. Bawl has a rule: one comment, one line. This rule made my life so much easier, being able to rely on any Bawl comment consisting of exactly one line and not having to worry about indentation across multiple lines. I ripped the support for multiline indented comments out of Bawl at an early stage as I knew it would be a nightmare to maintain. When you edit your comment using Bawl, it'll show just the way you entered it. Well, more or less, not all tags are reconstructed atm but generally it will. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 10:08, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
Bug report - replying to comment ending in a list with an intervening comment
In Special:Diff/1093141125, I was replying to a comment that ended in a list (:#) that already had another reply to it (::). Bawl started my reply with :## instead of ::, and placed my reply above the other reply instead of below it. I'm guessing Bawl didn't recognize that the :: reply was a reply to the :# and not a new comment? Levivich20:43, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
Levivich, erm, that's a bit complicated, but Bawl did what it was designed to do. Whether that was the right call, well.. Wikitext is messy. Unlike DiscussionTools, Bawl recognizes # as a form of indentation. (most typically used on some votes) Whether replies to votes in a numbered list should be numbered as well is a matter of style, Bawl just duplicates the last indentation character. Thryduulf's comment effectively ended with :# indentation. If Thryduulf had added another line, putting at least their signature on a new line with : indentation, it would have worked as expected. (I think that would look more clear as well) If Thryduulf had used Bawl it wouldn't have been an issue either as the whole comment would have existed on a single line. If Barkeep49 had used ::: for indentation (which would be required visually to create an offset from Thryduulf's numbered list) it would have also worked as expected. (your comment would have had ::: indentation and be placed below Barkeep49's comment in that case) I'll probably add an option to turn all indentation to colons if it's more than 1 character and ends in # and enable that by default, but that would still place your comment above Barkeep49's comment. IMHO that's the best way to handle this though, hashtags should be counted as indentation. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:21, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
Levivich, double hashtag indentation is now avoided by default. Getting the indentation level right should be fixed in DT. Barkeep49, I see. I also noticed now that Thryduulf used DT as well. I'd argue DT just shouldn't have handled things like this: either your comment should have had an extra colon to create the visual offset (though for screen readers that's actually worse) or (probably better) Thryduulf's signature should have been forced onto a new line, not appended to a list item. I created a Phabricator ticket for this: phab:T310739. I don't expect much to come from it, but I did my part. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:13, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, first module should have "afterOpenForm" instead of "openForm" (I changed this for consistency some time ago) and presumably you want Bawl.UITextInput.focus(); before your paste command. Still doesn't work me but that's a security thing I think. I doubt it would ever be a good idea to give websites access to your clipboard. w3schools says execCommand is deprecated. For the second one beforeLinkLoadFunc should be beforeEditFunc and beforeLinkLoad is not needed. You should also check mw.config.get('wgPageName') to make sure it doesn't activate outside CfD, which is presumably what you need it for. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:35, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, actually instead of changing commentTextIndent you probably need
or something. There is no module load point between the definition and final use of commentTextIndent. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:46, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz, I got it to sort of work (needs the multiline flag), and I'll fix it up a bit later, but... in one edit it changed the comment (by me) which also had ** indentation (though this might be my fault), and in both it didn't update the preview. ― Qwerfjkltalk21:11, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
You messed up! (username+timestamp THTB_lol'nt+11:16, 20 June 2022 (UTC) not found, seq: 0)
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Qwerfjkl, within their signature, THTB lol'nt used an HTML entity for the apostrophe that's in their username. This is generally undesirable and one of the many reasons why creating any tool to participate in wikitext discussions is widely considered madness: there are no standards. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 17:05, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, in the next update this particular one and some similar things will be caught, but it will still be possible to break it. It's quite rare luckily. The problem isn't that there is some markup (like colors etc), the problem is that technically Bawl is right: that username+timestamp combination does not exist in the wikitext. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:39, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, kinda more like MediaWiki doesn't allow you to edit the lede of nonexistent pages. It'll work after the next update of Bawl. (already fixed locally) — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 06:37, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I found this issue: Sometimes I have already seen 'new' comments on a page. This only seems to happen on certain pages (e.g. Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)). A possible cause could be done sort of conflict with subscribed sections; I haven't tested this. The bug has been around for a while; it's not new. ― Qwerfjkltalk15:36, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
Also, posting this comment is broken severly; this might be due to the outdent randomly appearing in the previous comment (perhaps due to the outdent the comment before it), or because I used the buttons at the top of the page (the input box for this comment just after the "Report a bug" button I used)/. ― Qwerfjkltalk15:40, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
For clarification, the outdent I said was randomly appearing in the previous comment was not posted in the comment. ― Qwerfjkltalk15:42, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, outdent is a type of indent. When posting an indented comment, Bawl.commentTextIndent is defined. When posting a new (sub)section after that, Bawl.commentTextIndent doesn't get defined nor used to post the section, but the parse-in-place preview does recycle it. This was most visible when the indented comment contained an outdent, but it was happening with any kind of indentation. I clear Bawl.commentTextIndent now when opening the form so this won't happen again. The subscription/'new' comments issue is more difficult without reproduction steps. (also because subscriptions are probably the most complex feature in Bawl) Some questions: (1) has your subscription object already exceeded 64K? Would you be able to tell me your window.localStorage.BawlSubs.length and mw.user.options.get('userjs-BawlSubs').length? When you go over 64K, something gets trashed for the latter. That something should be old, but maybe there's something wrong and something else happens. This also happens when exceeding the maximum page subscriptions. (2) Did you ever reset your subscriptions object? Quite some changes have been made to it. Maybe the problems only appear on VPT because it's probably your oldest subscription and something is missing from it. I added a button to reset only subscriptions. If that's too drastic for you, temporarily disable "Synchronize subscriptions to account preferences" and enter
to remove only all subscriptions to VPT. (3) Can you further define "seen"? Did you see them on the same device/browser? Not in another tab that was loaded after the page on which comments are incorrectly marked as new? Did you see them while viewing a diff or old revision? (4) You mean the green marking on timestamps, right? Or do you mean a notification? (5) Any pattern to what gets marked as new? Everything? Starting from a certain date? Any pattern? (6) Does it only happen sometimes or always? How often? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 18:41, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
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9":{"lastviewed":1652812599350},"Wikipedia:Ultraviolet/Preferences":{"lastviewed":1652890716857},"Template talk:Infobox musical artist":{"lastviewed":1652940203350},"Template talk:Infobox musical artist/tracking":{"lastviewed":1652940340490,"subs":{"Template:Infobox musical artist/tracking nominated for CSD, request deletion":{"id":"Qwerfjkl:1652940381270","lastupdate":1652940340490}}},"User talk:A Dutch Panda":{"lastviewed":1652976440560},"Talk:Proto-Tai language":{"lastviewed":1652978054486},"MediaWiki talk:Ipboptions":{"lastviewed":1652980258727},"Help:Template limits":{"lastviewed":1652982542641},"Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 May 12":{"lastviewed":1652991075767,"subs":{"People from places in Iran":{"id":"Qwerfjkl:1652991106048","lastupdate":1652991075767}}},"User talk:Fayenatic london":{"lastviewed":1652940959901},"Wikipedia:Bot policy":{"lastviewed":1653053701324},"Wikipedia:Redirect":{"lastviewed":1653059408513},"Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2022 May 20":{"lastviewed":1653059990589},"Template talk:Editnotices/Page/World Health Organization":{"lastviewed":1653062572560}}
For (2), I've just done so for the first time. For (3), by seen I mean read (the green highlight faded). This was on the same device, not in a different tab. For (4), I'm not entirely sure what you're referring to, perhaps 'new' comments above? If so, I do mean, as you say "the green marking on timestamps" (truth be told, I haven't seen a Bawl notification from subscriptions). For (5), I think it's from a date. For (6), infrequently on seemingly random pages (could be ones with old subscriptions, I've just mostly noticed it on VPT.) A minor bug I noticed in the above comment is that the preview doesn't show the show/hide button for the collapsed box, but just shows it open. ― Qwerfjkltalk21:15, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, thanks. I see nothing obviously wrong in the subscriptions object. I'm going to shorten the key names though, I should be more frugal considering the storage limitations. (3) It doesn't matter for this, but the fading makes no difference. When a page is loaded you're assumed to read all the comments on it you care about. What you've read is only tracked at the page level. (4) there's an option "Notify me about new comments in the general notification area". You've actually enabled it. Never seen something that looked like an echo? Nothing in mw.user.options.get('userjs-BawlTackOnEchoGlobal')? (5) If you notice it happening again, try to estimate from approximately which date comments are marked to get an idea if it might be since some event. Also please get a copy of JSON.stringify(JSON.parse(window.localStorage.BawlSubs)[mw.config.get('wgPageName').replace(/_/g,' ')]) so I can check if the recorded dates make any sense. I'll look into the collapsed item-in-preview issue.— Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 05:11, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, .mw-collapsible should work in previews now. Regarding the subscriptions: please reset your subscriptions again. If Bawl doesn't load:
My best guess is that this is/was a synchronization issue. With synchronization enabled, subscriptions are stored both in localStorage and as a preference. (but not identically: only pages with subscriptions are synchronized to preferences due to storage limitations) When a subscribe/unsubscribe action happens, localStorage is synchronized to preferences. But when merely viewing a page it's not because changing a preference with every pageview wouldn't be very nice. Preferences are synchronized to localStorage on every pageload (because it's cheap) but this was done with a simple Object.assign. This may have resulted in a newer "lastviewed" date in localStorage to be overwritten with an older date from the last synchronization to preferences. I think. Err, we'll just have to see if it's better now. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 20:10, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
Element types processed: LI, P, I, INPUT, DD, SPAN, SMALL
Additional information: Error triggered by user. The 'comments not being marked as read' occured, with the earliest comment being at 26 May 2022, 11:48
, by P.T.D. (I've replied to it, so see Replylinkparams above).
Qwerfjkl, awww. :-( So not solved. Just for diagnostic purposes, could you disable "Synchronize subscriptions to account preferences" for a while? If it would still happen with synchronization disabled my assumptions were wrong. Otherwise I just haven't been thorough enough with my last fix. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:20, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
Bug: New section opens edit source, and empty box below edit box
Alexis: I enabled the Insert link to add a new section option, but it opens the edit source window. When I exit it, it shows the empty edit box for the new section, though.
Also--unrelated or not--I'm now seeing an empty box below the edit box (I wasn't yesterday).
Just realised that tapping </> disappears with the empty box. Then if I press it again, it continues to work switching source and visual editors. Disabling the switching option got rid of it entirely. Today I'm having other problems with Bawl though; I couldn't reply to this comment with it (I'm using WM's std source editor). — Guarapiranga☎22:17, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
Guarapiranga, two unrelated problems. You enabled "Enable switching between editors" which allows you to switch between source mode and VisualLight. (Bawl's store brandWYSIWYG editor) Normally you should only see one editor, but due to an oversight you got both. I probably missed it because when debug mode is enabled this is the expected behavior. The "edit source" window was probably opening because the WMF changed something as Qwerfjkl reported a similar issue below, that should be resolved as well. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 22:59, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
Cool, seems to be working now. Glad to help identifying an actual bug (not simply an idiosyncrasy on my config). — Guarapiranga☎04:37, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
I've noticed another wrinkle, though. Sometimes, when I click on the pen to edit something, the editor window first opens (in source mode) showing html instead of wikimarkup (e.g. <b>bold</b> instead of '''bold'''). I then switch the editor to visual and back, and it shows wikimarkup instead of html. — Guarapiranga☎11:04, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
EpicPupper, it means "Bawl Comment Link" and there's a demo at [10]. If you have any details on DT's edit conflict resolution I'll be happy to add it, I don't know all the details of all the things. I've been meaning to test/research more, but there are only so many hours in a day. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 21:51, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
EpicPupper, that would be awesome! I'll compile some steps. To make it work for everyone (including people who haven't enabled the script) the script has to be a gadget. Otherwise you'd get a wikitext editor fallback link as scripts can only be loaded by URL if they're in MediaWiki namespace. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 05:51, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
EpicPupper, I'm drowning in tasks here, I didn't forget you, there's just so much to do. To be clear, is the goal to have a comment link that works for Bawl users and reloads the page with Bawl for those who don't have it running already, or is the goal to have the comment link work for Bawl users and just provide a wikitext editor fallback link? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 14:08, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz, totally fine! There is no deadline :) I would prefer a comment link that works for Bawl users and provides a wikitext editor fallback for non-Bawl users. Cheers! 🐶 EpicPupper(he/him | talk)18:32, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, it works for me. Please describe "does not work" as detailed as possible. Is there no icon to edit full pages? Is the new section icon that's usually next to it still there? Does the form not open? Does submitting fail? Any messages on the browser console? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 11:36, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, um, that's odd.. I found an issue which only triggers when VE (or 2017 source editor) is enabled and I'm guessing was triggered by some recent change from the WMF, but I still saw the icons. I did fix that one which changed the HTML for those buttons, did by any luck anything change? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:35, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, did you generate this error report on your tablet? Bawl stores its settings by default in localStorage, and these override any account or global preferences you set. This is by design to allow different devices to use different settings. So could full editing simply not be enabled on your tablet? You also didn't answer my other question: is the new section icon still there? That one is enabled by default and it's added using the same insertion method as the full page editing icon. If the full page editing icon is missing due to a bug the new section icon should be missing as well. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 00:43, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz, Sorry for the slow reply, I've been trying to fix a common.js error that crashes my tablet. Anyway, yes, I generated the report on my tablet, I do have full page editing enabled (it only stopped recently - maybe a week?) and the other icon is missing as well. ― Qwerfjkltalk15:34, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, it seems with Vector-2022 and a very narrow window (portrait mode?) the icons disappear. Could you test switching to landscape mode (if you are in portrait mode) and/or zooming out? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:14, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, please don't say that. You have scripting experience, you know how much time went into this. The only problem here, which I had already noticed in another comment but didn't get around to fixing yet, is one excess {{truenewline}}. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 00:55, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
I'm not complaining, so I'm sorry if I sounded that harsh. Just asking, how do you find out how many colons to add right before the first letter? NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh05:09, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, first get the wikitext. Find the comment (signature) you're replying to. Obtain its indentation. Check the indentation of the lines that follow one by one. If a line that follows has an indentation level that is equal to or lower than the indentation level of the comment you're replying to, break and use not this but the previously checked line. Get the indentation level of this line and repeat the last character as not every discussion uses colons. (this explanation is massively oversimplified) — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 05:33, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz: Currently, you are replacing line breaks with <br>; however, why don't just replace them with itself plus the indent level you already have, then exclude those in <pre>...</pre>, <nowiki>...</nowiki> and <syntaxhighlight>...</syntaxhighlight>? For instance, everything until this very word looks like this to Bawl: "{{ping|Alexis Jazz}} Currently, you are replacing line breaks with {{tag|br|o}}; however, why don't just replace them with itself plus the indent level you already have, <em>then</em> exclude those in {{tag|pre}}, {{tag|nowiki}} and {{tag|syntaxhighlight}}?\nFor instance, everything until this very '''word'''" See that '\n' over there, right before For instance? Replace it with '::::{{ping|Alexis Jazz}} If you managed to find out <em>how many</em>, why can't<syntaxhighlightlang="ragel"inline>/\n/g be replaced with \n<indentlevel>? NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh12:44, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, duplication, that's very odd. I'll look into that. You said "over there, right before For instance? Replace it with.." followed by a syntaxhighlight. Any chance you remember what you put in there? however, why don't just replace them with itself plus the indent level you already have My new go-to answer: WP:SOFIXIT. You've ordered one Pandora's box so here you have it:
Just beware that everything will break, your method will just fail in discussions that use asterisk or hashtag indentation, excluding pre/syntaxhighlight/anything from indentation will screw over screenreaders, you won't be able to edit any part of your comment beyond the last line, extracting your comment from wikitext will be real fun if parts of it have no indentation and.. yes, why don't I just replace them with itself plus the indent level you already have? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 02:15, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, sorry if my fuse is a little shorter than it should be. I need to take a break more often. The initial problem was caused by a bad regex. It was only triggered when you had multiple syntaxhighlight tags in one comment which is why I never caught it myself. That should be fixed. I'm unsure about the duplication issue, maybe I accidentally fixed that too, but I'll need reproduction steps for that and I don't know what your original input was. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:42, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
┌─────────────────────┘ IIRC it was:
{{ping|DemonDays64}} You can do that with CSS:\n<syntaxhighlight lang="css">\n#pt-userpage {\n display: none;\n}\n</syntaxhighlight>\n...or with JS:\n<syntaxhighlight lang="js">\n$('#pt-userpage').remove();\n</syntaxhighlight>\nYou probably know what to do with these.
NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, there was a bug a while back that caused the wrong form to open, though that did preload the comment in question so you'd generally notice that. I was worried that bug returned in some form. I added an option "Put speech balloon on form background when commenting and marker when editing a comment" that could help to differentiate between commenting and editing forms. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:22, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
Guarapiranga, doesn't seem reproducible. (the reply in question is now at User talk:Alexis Jazz/Bawl/Archives/2022, the "I rest my case" comment) Maybe I fixed it somewhere along the way, maybe a gadget conflict, maybe a fluke. Do you have additional information? Otherwise I think it's better to archive this section. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 17:41, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
You messed up! (open form failed)
Alexis Jazz, you messed up! I was trying to reply to a comment.
Replylinkparams:
{"int":239,"type":"comment","subtype":"legacy","id":"RandomCanadian:01:15, 6 June 2022 (UTC):239","pageTitleInt":119,"origReplyTo":"RandomCanadian","origTimestamp":"01:15, 6 June 2022 (UTC)","seq":0,"pageTitle":"Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2022 June 4","sectionTitle":"Template:Results of the 2022 Australian federal election (House of Representatives)","sectionseq":0}
It happens off-and-on, sort of randomly, Alexis. I'm not yet sure what are the circumstances (which in my case are further compounded by far too many scripts and extensions). — Guarapiranga☎22:18, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
Guarapiranga, if it's really random, as in, the very same action (like "load page X, click speech bubble Y") not consistently resulting in breakage I would guess it's a script/gadget and the error only happening with a certain load order. (which depends on network delays) If it happens again, please look at the browser console in case there's a JS error there. If the script load order is the issue, you could try wrapping the loading line for Bawl in your common.js in a delay of a few seconds so Bawl would load last, or wrap everything else in a delay to ensure Bawl loads first. That might help to narrow it down. I did add a check recently in Bawl.appendToFirstBlockParent that could cause a JS error because it tried to getComputedStyle an undefined under certain circumstances, so if it doesn't happen anymore maybe that was it. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 05:46, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
Donald Trung, I only just noticed that no elements were processed. Very odd. Is the error reproducible? I've added some code to retry some API requests in case of network error, maybe that'll help. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 20:49, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, no replylinkparams? How..? What did you try to open? Edit lede (in #firstHeading), edit full page (in toolbar), something else? Reproducible for you? Any errors on the browser console? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 22:03, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, what do you mean "added a new heading"? You mean the add subsection icon? (speech balloon with plus) Because that's not there. (or if it is for you, it shouldn't be) And since the form didn't open, you couldn't have entered a section there either. And sorry to ask again, but: reproducible? Any errors or warnings on the browser console? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 13:56, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
Additional information: After attempting to submit, success was not detected after 10 seconds. Sometimes an edit takes longer, but this may indicate something went wrong.
I'm not sure what this report is supposed to look like or why you are receiving the error message. I tried opening an SPI report, which I've done before with no problems and it won't go through or give me any indication what the problem is. I've tried this three times, from scratch in case I inputed the information incorrectly. What's going on here? LizRead!Talk!02:44, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
I figured it out. I'm not sure why Bawl is involved with me filing an SPI report, I haven't seen any benefit to it and this just messed things up. Bawl prevented the report from being submitted because I didn't add a "Subject line". I didn't even notice that field was there. So, I added a meaningless subject title, submitted the report and then deleted the extraneous subject title. That field shouldn't be required in order to leave a report at SPI which already has a format that you submit information in. I can see this feature being somewhat useful for talk page posts but this wasn't on a talk page. LizRead!Talk!04:33, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
Liz, the error you received is a catch-all for unpredicted failure states, that's why it doesn't tell you what the problem is. And the problem was, in this case, a very silly bug. I was rather puzzled initially, but eventually figured out you must have omitted the section title. This stops the edit from going through (by design, also shakes the title field and changes its color temporarily), and logically, yes, that means the edit didn't succeed.. But that shouldn't trigger an error as it's expected. I fixed this. I also focus the title field now and its color doesn't fade away until something is entered. Posting a new section without a section title was impossible until now. As it's indeed actually useful when substituting a template that provides a header it's now possible by simply pressing "submit" again with a still-empty title. As for why Bawl is involved with filing SPI reports: it isn't, well, not specifically. By default, Bawl takes over various "new section" forms. The trigger for that was actually DiscussionTools which (when its new topic feature is enabled) does the same thing, except more aggressively. (section=new becomes inaccessible without hacks, which Bawl implements to circumvent DT blocking access to section=new. I know, right?) Sooner or later they'll enable that new topic feature by default, so I have little choice: I don't want to instruct users to disable DT (I don't want to ask a single question when opening Bawl, I consider that bad design), I don't want to disable DT behind the user's back, so all that's left is to do the same thing. Unlike DT, this behavior can be fine-tuned in Bawl's settings. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 04:49, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
Element types processed: H1, LI, P, I, INPUT, DD, S, SPAN, SMALL
Additional information: Somehow my choice of 2010 wikitext editor is no longer honored. I tried the switching button but that doesn't work either. Nothing found in browser console. NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh21:41, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, please always check the browser console for errors with timeout errors (could not open form, success was not detected) because they don't point me to any specific spot in the code. If I can easily reproduce the issue or there is an obvious issue with replylinkparams that doesn't really matter, but in this case I don't see it. With these kinds of errors (and actually in general), try to include whether it's reproducible or not. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 21:44, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
Feature request
Alexis Jazz, currently 'read' comments differ between device, probably because the data isn't saved to the account. It would be great if it could use the earliest unread change on watchlisted pages instead. ― Qwerfjkltalk16:07, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, you remember a month ago when I asked you to disable "Synchronize subscriptions to account preferences" for diagnostic purposes, to see if that would resolve resolve the "comments not being marked as read" issue? Haven't got the results yet.. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 16:28, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz, I see the problem. I suppose you coukd.try to call it for every page on the watchlist with unread changes (currently 10 for me) when the editing session starts (if you can actually determine that). It's not really that much of a problem, though. ― Qwerfjkltalk06:13, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, maybe, I'm not sure. I don't think there is such a thing as an "editing session". I could simply throttle it (like I already do for some actions) to every x minutes per device, but I'm not sure it's ideal anyway. I'm about to just rip out Bawl.stalkSyncToLocalStorage and Bawl.stalkSyncToPrefs. I'll just store the subscriptions in one or the other, no more synchronization bugs. It'll cause more traffic when using preferences, but what you gonna do. With lz-string I got a little more room (but not nearly as much as you'd think, compressed objects are ~30% smaller byte-wise) and I'm considering to drop millisecond precision which would shave off another ~6%. And I could store lastchecked (c) and lastupdated (u) as values relative to lastviewed (v). And I guess I could use two preferences if needed, doubling the maximum size to 128K. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 15:27, 1 July 2022 (UTC)
You messed up! (username+timestamp Lambiam+09:23, 14 May 2021 (UTC) not found, seq: 0)
{"int":62,"type":"edit","subtype":"legacy","id":"Lambiam:09:23, 14 May 2021 (UTC):62","pageTitleInt":48,"origReplyTo":"Lambiam","origTimestamp":"09:23, 14 May 2021 (UTC)","seq":0,"pageTitle":"Talk:Earthworm","sectionTitle":"Regeneration?","sectionseq":0}
Element types processed: H1, LI, P, I, SPAN, DD, SMALL, BUTTON
Additional information: Username/timestamp combination not found.
Looking at the signature, with ifeq and module calls, I can see why Bawl can't find the username.
Qwerfjkltalk12:21, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, I see. I added a fallback: if the timestamp is unique, Bawl will use just that and forget about the username. Most of Lambiam's signature gets filtered as it is enclosed in curly brackets which typically represent templates. Lambiam, your current signature no longer has these codes, but I wonder what you were even trying to achieve with {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|{{#invoke:Redirect|main|User talk:Lambiam}}|Lambiam|{{#if:Lambiam|[[User talk:Lambiam|Lambiam]]|[[User talk:Lambiam]]}}}}. It checks if the current page is your talk page and uses the redirect module - I can only imagine for crosswiki purposes to translate "User talk", but as the redirect module isn't universally available it wouldn't work on many projects anyway. If the current page is your user talk, it outputs a non-link "Lambiam" (which would be an invalid signature). On other pages it goes through an #if:Lambiam check, and as Lambiam is a fixed string here this will always evaluate to true. The only goal for this I can imagine if making the link not bold on your user talk. [[User talk:Lambiam|<span style="font-weight:normal">Lambiam</span>]] would be an easier way to achieve that. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 22:01, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
I indeed wanted to keep my signature from appearing in bold (as Lambiam) on my talk page. I originally achieved the effect using templates, but then I got a message informing me that, per WP:CUSTOMSIG/P, templates in signatures were prohibited. So then I expanded the templates by repeated substing until none were left and only parser functions were used. I had no idea that this might also be problematic. Overriding the bolding by use of the CSS font-weight property just did not occur to me. --Lambiam22:30, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
Additional information: After attempting to submit, success was not detected after 10 seconds. Sometimes an edit takes longer, but this may indicate something went wrong. I modified the section a bit and then tried to move it to Wikipedia:Village pump (technical).
Additional information: Error triggered by user.
Editing the 'See also' section (using the section edit pencil icon) lead to the 'External links' section.
Qwerfjkltalk21:19, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, I see the issue. (it's the HTML comment after the title) Already knew about it because it also affects translated pages on metawiki, will fix soon. (edit: fixed days ago) — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 21:25, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
Feature request
Alexis Jazz, Loving Bawl—thanks for working on this tool! I have a feature request: I have enabled "[w]arn before leaving the page with an entered comment", which works a little too well. It gives me a warning when I click "submit" after writing a new section using Bawl. I decided that this was a feature request rather than a bug report given that I did technically sign up for warnings when I leave a page with an entered comment, which is in fact happening when I click on submit. Again, thank you for Bawl! HouseBlastertalk00:46, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
HouseBlaster, thank you! Technically it works correctly but that's indeed not the intended behavior. Should be fixed now. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 02:17, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
AdrianHObradors, Done Boring background: when editing an unindented comment within a section, Bawl tries to capture the whole comment now. General multiline comment support won't happen, but for unindented comments it's doable. As the initial message in a discussion sometimes needs to be edited by another user who may not be using Bawl (like an edit request status) new sections made through inputboxes (for example by using a {{Request edit button}}) are now multiline, this required the ability to fully read those comments when editing them. The multiline comments weren't processed correctly when determining the indentation. One of the regular expressions probably matched nothing and the whole comment (or most of it) was probably treated as indentation, resulting in a ridiculous outdent. Boring. When not editing an existing comment, the whole multiline processing bit is skipped now. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 11:44, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
You messed up! (submit timeout button) (it did post, so not really a big problem)
Alexis Jazz, you messed up! (possibly). Hi again Alexis! I sometimes get this error where the comment is posted, but the Bawl is unable to check if it was or not posted. Thankfully it always posts. Thought, though, that you would want the report anyway. Again thank you for everything! :)
Replylinkparams:
{"int":823,"type":"comment","subtype":"legacy","id":"Gitz6666:07:42, 2 August 2022 (UTC):823","pageTitleInt":723,"origReplyTo":"Gitz6666","origTimestamp":"07:42, 2 August 2022 (UTC)","seq":0,"pageTitle":"Talk:War crimes in the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine","sectionTitle":"Stara Krasnianka care house attack","sectionseq":0}
Element types processed: H1, LI, INPUT, P, I, SPAN, DD, SMALL, DEL
Additional information: After attempting to submit, success was not detected after 10 seconds. Sometimes an edit takes longer, but this may indicate something went wrong.
AdrianHObradors, indeed, this issue is difficult to fix 100%. Thanks for the report. As it doesn't happen anywhere consistently it's difficult to do anything about it. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 07:10, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
AdrianHObradors, Done, in the sense that "submit timeout" now won't trigger anymore unless debug mode is enabled. It was supposed to catch otherwise undetected errors (so you wouldn't be stuck with a form that's "processing" but never finishes without any error), but it seems to be doing more harm than good for some reason in its current form. So it's restricted to debug mode for now. I'll probably revisit the idea later. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 03:55, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
You messed up! (username+timestamp TJMSmith+21:45, 1 August 2022 (UTC) not found, seq: 0)
Alexis Jazz, you messed up! (possibly). Seems today is not my day Alexis! Another error :(
Replylinkparams:
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AdrianHObradors, {{ITN candidate}} is embedding the signature. This is invalid, those posts are effectively unsigned. It causes DiscussionTools to fuck up the indentation (Correction: it doesn't, DT doesn't support indentation properly, causing editors to preface their comment with an asterisk, resulting in a flood of tears from screen readers. How DT passed QA is a mystery to me) and Bawl just can't find the signature because it purposely skips templates when searching for signatures, to avoid false positives. I'll see if some workaround is possible, but {{ITN candidate}} is at fault here. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 17:31, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
AdrianHObradors, I have it almost working in testing, provided some conditions are met. Primarily that the page can't encapsulate any section headers within a tag/template (another sin), which WP:ITNC luckily doesn't. I'm not sure if {{ITN candidate}} technically conflicts with WP:SIG#NT, but it's not pretty. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 23:56, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, hello again! I have two more features I would like to request. Still loving Bawl – its best feature is how quickly you respond to comments here. I have two more requests that I would like to make. First, SineBot allows users to opt-out of SineBot for a single edit by placing !nosine! or !nosign! anywhere in the edit summary. It would be great if Bawl would respond to these as well as the NOSIGN placed at the end of the text. Second, Bawl is once again a little too good at its job. When I reopen a page it loads the text I previously wrote, even if I have already clicked "submit". It would be great if Bawl would forget what you previously wrote once you have clicked "submit". Thank you so much for your hard work! HouseBlastertalk02:20, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
HouseBlaster, !nosine! / !nosign! should work now. It's supposed to forget. It waits for edit confirmation though, just in case the edit fails, so it doesn't erase instantly after pressing "submit". Can you consistently reproduce this issue anywhere? I've made a few small changes so maybe that'll bring some improvement already. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 06:58, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
Additional information: I was trying to reproduce this by clicking "feature request" above, and got this error. On a different subject, I have gotten the still-cached-after-submitting bug twice: once at WP:REFUND (using the inputbox on the page to request a REFUND of an image) and once yesterday on this page when I filed the feature request for !nosine! Thank you for your quick response to that request!
HouseBlaster, that's some valuable information. Both times you encountered the still-cached-after-submitting bug you were creating a new section from an action=edit URL. After you submit, Bawl redirects you to the page to view the section you just posted. There was a bug regarding that: you were redirected before the draft was cleared out. Which obviously doesn't work. Changing that order was part of the "few small changes" I mentioned, so this should be fixed. For the "open form failed" issue: can you reproduce this? And did the form actually open despite the message? I just encountered the error myself when another process was slowing down my computer. If it takes more than 1.5 seconds the form is presumed to have failed to open. I've increased this value to 2 seconds and now keep running a check for 3 seconds to close the warning if the form was only delayed. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 11:06, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
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Element types processed: H1, P, TD, SPAN, LI, A, SMALL, DD, I
Additional information: I am now getting this error every time I try to load Bawl, and it does not resolve itself by waiting for Bawl to load in the background. I have gotten the error when I hit the "feature request" button above, the "new section" button above, the "new section" button on my talk page, when I clicked the reply link after your message above, when I clicked the "start a new section" at the bottom of this page, and when I clicked on the reply button to a random message in a thread I was subscribed to (this is the one I clicked the "file this form" button on). I have closed everything besides this single tab on my laptop. When I loaded this page, I also got this error message (I assume it was the word "submit" which got cut off, but it was cut off by my screen, not by the screenshot); I was able to reproduce this message by clicking "show preview". Let me know if you need more information, and sorry to bother you once more! After I submitted this message originally, I got a popup identical to the screenshot linked above, except the error was on line 990, not line 1110, and the URL was just User talk:Alexis Jazz/Bawl. When I opened this page in new tab, I got another message, this time with an error on line 984. I clicked preview and the error was on line 1111.
HouseBlaster, Done. I had introduced a bug with the nosine/nosign thing that only triggered if certain settings were enabled. (livePreview probably) Curious that you disabled icons to edit your own comments. I'm guessing because you enabled reply-link masquerade and the icons don't fit in so well next to a text link. I've expanded this, edit/thank/permalink icons now also become text when reply-link masquerade is enabled. I'm a little sad to see you disabled locators, I wonder why. Probably a lack of communication about their importance on my part. I've made it a bit harder to disable that setting.. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 10:33, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, thank you so much for fixing this! Honestly, I do not remember disabling locators—I would hazard a guess that was one of the buttons I clicked when I was fooling around with the settings after installing Bawl. I would further guess the same thing happened with the icon to edit your own comments. I have more minor nitpicks! First, once I have thanked a message, the word "thanked" is still a button, and still displays the "Do you want to publicly send thanks for this comment?" message. It would be great if it would mimic the "(thanked)" (emphasis in original) behavior from view history. This is also the epitome of minor feature requests, but when you hover over any of the "thank", "reply", or "edit" buttons, the preceding space is erroneously highlighted. Thank you, so so much, for your hard work! HouseBlastertalk01:39, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
AdrianHObradors, issues should be resolved. If you still find issues please report them. HouseBlaster, the preceding space is actually part of the link, but I get your point. Having links being slightly bigger helps touchscreen devices. I crossed the t's and dotted the i's with some CSS so it should look more consistent now. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 04:15, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
That's a good question. There may well be a better way, but it's not as simple as that. At least any occurrence of < or > in the source can't be nowiki'd. There are a lot of possibilities to consider with this. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 03:29, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, it's all far more complicated than it seemed. I had added an option to recombine adjacent nowiki tags, but this tends to break comment editing so I made it optional as an expert setting. If you don't care too much about editing comments with syntaxhighlight blocks you could enable it. While anything can be solved, I'm going to call "patch welcome" on this one. It's a major headache for me. By nowiki'ing every character individually, they can no longer be mistaken for templates or the closing brackets for #tag:syntaxhighlight. That's most probably why I made it this way. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 07:28, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, not anymore I hope? I messed up by entering a closing nowiki tag in a code comment, I corrected that. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 07:31, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
AdrianHObradors, Done Technical stuff: this is caused by the "proposed text" collapsed block on Talk:War crimes in the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine#RfC on military objectives near civilians and Stara Krasnianka attack which includes a few headers. By design, Bawl filters those out as they are generally code examples or otherwise invalidated as actual section headers. While they have no .mw-editsection link, MediaWiki is actually counting them in this case. I had to think about this for a while. The best solution would be if the poster of that block would have either used {{Collapse top}} + {{Collapse bottom}}, thus not encapsulating the section headers within a template. Or use HTML headers like <h2> so the headers don't register as sections in MediaWiki or Bawl. But this can never be relied on anyway, so Bawl now detects this situation and disables section editing altogether. It's considerably slower but can't select the wrong section as it doesn't select any section. It's not much slower for Bawl itself, but the server takes longer to respond and you have to wait for that. But it's better than editing the wrong section. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 18:31, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
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Qwerfjkl, Done, the leading colon from the category link in the section title wasn't filtered so the section couldn't be found. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 21:30, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
DoneKlein Muçi, it's intentional. New empty (sub)sections are sometimes desired and some votes consist of nothing but a list of signatures. That being said: added confirmation dialog. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:52, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I found this issue: You start editing a certain old comment. You press escape and close the text box. You then press whatever Bawl button in a talk page, be that for adding new subsections or replying to an existing comment. You get the old text of the comment you started editing in the text-box and it will keep being there unless you reload the page. Klein Muçi (talk) 10:15, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
The not-forgetting-old-Escaped-workflows thing actually happens with every main feature of Bawl now that I see it and even the Forget button doesn't help. Only reloading the page works. - Klein Muçi (talk) 10:24, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
DoneKlein Muçi, closing the form by pressing escape wasn't registered as a user-initiated form close so values weren't cleared. Values are only cleared when the user initiated the close or after a successful edit. Why the cancel ("forget" is a translation from Albanian probably?) button wouldn't work is unclear, if you can still reproduce this please provide more detailed reproduction steps. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:59, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
Yes, it is and no, I can't reproduce it anymore. No values are saved anymore after you press escape or click cancel. A minor bug still exists though in regard to escaping and closing: When adding a new section, you get the subject and body text boxes. If your cursor is resting on the body one, you can press Escape and you can exit it. The same isn't true if your cursor is resting on the subject text box. It should let you escape even if you're standing on it. (And if we are to follow what I've asked for in the big list of suggestions below, Esc should be able to work globally, no matter where your cursor - or focus - is located.) - Klein Muçi (talk) 13:13, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, Done, can't reproduce (also tried with an account with a special character in the username), no longer my problem. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:36, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I found this small issue: If you add a new section which happens to be at the bottom of the page, the "Start a new discussion topic" link gets rendered above the newly added section, not at the bottom of the page anymore. This continues until you reload the page. - Klein Muçi (talk) 10:29, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
From Wikipedia:User scripts/Requests: For example, in regard to reply 2 different discussions simultaneously maybe we can have a warning/popup of some sort that explains what's going on (something like, you have already a discussion opened). If you press another speech balloon a ping gets inserted for that user. Otherwise the existing form is scrolled into view. Explaining is to be avoided as much as possible. It bores users, disrupts flow and requires translation. Maybe it can only be activated if you already have some text in the first discussion; If you don't, it just jumps to the second one immediately. Technically possible, but why did the user open the first form to begin with? You would close the first form without asking. This would make behavior less consistent: Bawl never closes a form unless you submit or cancel it. If the existing form keeps scrolling into view I expect the user to figure out that to stop this from happening they need to make the first form go away so it can't be scrolled into view anymore. If you auto-close the first form but only if it's empty, the user will likely perceive this as randomness. Also, again at quick glance, I did some reference fixing to test it out and I noticed I had to write the same edit summary over and over again after every edit. It would be nice if the box could remember it and show some suggestions like the current edit summary box does. Will be done in the next update. (already have it working) This (the summary box), I assume, can be further fine-tuned to work differently for different reasons, for example for ref-fixing, instead of remembering old summaries, it can provide standard phrases automatically like "Fixed references using Bawl" These kinds of messages are generally kept in Bawl.wikiMsgsObj. Will be there in the next update. and also mark every edit as a minor one, if so wished, similar to what AWB does. There's an option to enable a keyboard shortcut (ctrl+shift+enter) to check the edit as minor and submit the form. I'm not entirely comfortable with providing an option to mark edits to references as minor by default as such edits often aren't minor. A module for this purpose could be written though. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 11:13, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
I do agree with the minor marking part. It was just there to help illustrate pre-defined behavior for specific tasks. (Having 2-3 things happening automatically if a specific task is going on.)
As for the multiple open discussions' matter, I believe that, as I've said in another request here, it either should autofocus you there (in the old discussion) so you can close it, or just understand that you've opened it accidently (considering that it is empty) and close it on the background and let you continue on the new discussion without making the workflow appear clunky. Consider the fact that if that is an actual accident and you are in a big talk page, after closing the old discussion which you opened accidentally, you'll need to scroll back to whatever discussion and find whatever comment you actually wanted to interact with. Just for consistency though, please do reply about this in my feature request above where I mention these matters and some more so we don't get lost in the page.
Have a button show up that quickly centers up the screen in the discussion I'm working on when I have for whatever reason scrolled past it;
Have the Bawl discussion buttons start a new workflow in another discussion even if another one is currently open if the old one is empty (it auto-closes and you get on with the new one);
Be able to switch back and forth between adding new (sub)sections/replies or editing existing ones without canceling or saving first if nothing was changed.
Have the Escape button work to close workflows even when they're out of focus by the screen if they're empty. If there is text, it still works but you get auto-focused on it maybe with a popup warning. - Klein Muçi (talk) 10:22, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, 1. Done, Settings, Interface, "Floating text balloon to quickly scroll Bawl back into view" 2. No. Speech bubbles get repurposed as mention buttons with an open form. So this is a valid action and your request would have to be another non-default setting. More importantly, detecting if a form is "empty" is not as trivial as you'd think. Being literally empty can be detected easily, but if any text is preloaded this becomes an issue. There's currently another check to see if any key was pressed with the text input focused, but this still creates false positives. (pressing ctrl for example) The onChange event also gets triggered automatically often enough and a comparison of what was preloaded to the current content will also pose problems, particularly when using CodeMirror/CodeEditor/VisualLight. 3. User:Alexis Jazz/Bawl/Mumbo jumbo#Known limitations and known unknowns second point 4. Done— Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 15:51, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
If you're out of focus and some text was inserted in the form, pressing the Esc button will trigger a popup but it won't autofocus on the opened form.
I didn't know anything about the Speech bubble-mention button metamorphose. In my eyes it looks a bit like an Easter egg but I suppose that it is a function someone must has asked for in the past so... I just wanted for it to feel less clunky and be able to quickly parkour between forms in a human way (not opening 2 forms simultaneously), for example where I press the reply button instead of the edit one, or vice-versa, or when I accidentally choose the wrong discussion... BUT I understand about its limitations. - Klein Muçi (talk) 16:43, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, but it won't autofocus on the opened form I thought that's what you wanted, so you wouldn't have to scroll back to where you were. but I suppose that it is a function someone must has asked for in the past Nope all me. I disliked the mention menu from DT. This seemed more intuitive to me. Especially as the displayed name of some users is completely different from their username. But perhaps I should change the icon appearance when a form is open to clarify this. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 17:03, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
I wanted that when there was no text in the old form. When there is text and I need to decide on what to do with it (discard or return to it) I need to be autofocused on the said text to be able to decide.
I agree with icons changing form. The link icons should change too as I just found out now by this discussion that they too undergo metamorphose. (That's why I love to have tooltips everywhere. :P ) - Klein Muçi (talk) 17:14, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
The newly implemented "up and down" functionality can be a bit confusing however I think I can get used to it pretty quickly. Thank you! :)
In regard to esc-closing I wanted to report 1 more detail: If you have auto-mention on and start a reply form accidentally and want to esc-close it, it will fire up the warning popup because it is not considered empty because of the mention. Can we make it so if the only text that's inside a form is the auto-added mention (not sure if we can differentiate between manual and automatic but even if we can't), esc-closing still works without a warning popup? - Klein Muçi (talk) 11:55, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, that wasn't the issue. You had the text input in focus and pressed escape - escape is a key, so it registered the form as having been changed and not empty. (the not empty part indeed being due to the auto-mention) If you had clicked outside the text input before pressing escape it would have worked. I've excluded escape and modifier keys now. Switching back and forth, while I see how it might appeal, I'd rather avoid. It would be complicated to explain why it works in some cases but not in others. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 20:41, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
Ooh, I see... That's actually interesting. I hadn't thought it could be THAT complicated. As for the last sentences... I don't understand to what you're exactly referring to: Switching back and forth, while I see how it might appeal, I'd rather avoid. It would be complicated to explain why it works in some cases but not in others. What are you referring to in this case? Is it about my third point above? - Klein Muçi (talk) 21:29, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, yes, this: Be able to switch back and forth between adding new (sub)sections/replies or editing existing ones without canceling or saving first if nothing was changed.— Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 21:40, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
Ah! Oh well, I had given up on it since the beginning because I thought it was impossible. As I said, my aim was to be able to remove clunkiness as much as possible. But you have more info than me so... Maybe if someone else also asks for it in the future, you can entertain the idea again, meanwhile you can consider this thread completed. - Klein Muçi (talk) 21:59, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
You messed up! (open form failed)
Alexis Jazz, you messed up! I was trying to reply to my own comment.
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Guarapiranga, possibly a gadget conflict. What does $('.mw-editsection')[32].outerHTML return on your browser console? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 22:27, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
I think the link icon beside the strikethrough one should be a bit smaller. It stands aside the most and it looks like it is the largest icon in that row. Most likely an optical illusion but...
Can the background speech and pencil icons be a bit smaller when activated? I really like the idea behind it because I was wondering how to differ between comment addition and editing.
When extra information about discussions is enabled, you get "X in total". Maybe I'm a slowpoke but it took me a bit to understand what it was referring to. Maybe the word "comments" can be added beside it? I kinda believe this is intentional though but I'd wish that that was a possibility.
Can the participants part actually provide the names of the participants on link form on hover? The list can be cut off at a certain number for many-participants discussions.
Can we activate comment editing by triple/multi-clicking it or any other similar shortcut? (So it doesn't intersect with the native double-clicking auto-select function.)
Can we activate comment editing and replying by right-clicking on a comment and actually having the options edit/reply in the native browser dropdown menu that issues? -
I have no idea how the subscriptions actually work. Maybe some tooltips can be added on the bell icon telling me what is happening?
I have no idea how changing the editor actually works. Maybe some tooltips can be added on the corresponding icon telling me what is happening?
As I mentioned earlier, I'd wish for the summary box to remember my past summaries and maybe to auto-suggest some in regard to what I'm doing (specific ones for references fixing, for adding new article sections/subsections etc. This would be a bit harder when you consider language localization as a factor).
More tooltips and more localization! (Yes, this suggestion is as generic as you think it is. :P ) I use tooltips a lot to understand what icons do and I really get frustrated when there are no tooltips in some of them. Currently Bawl is inconsistent in this aspect, some have tooltips, some don't.
Can we have voting/polling buttons like agree/disagree etc.? Possibly only activating after autodetecting a voting section somehow? Vote auto-counting, if that was possible, would be going the extra, extra mile.
Can we have a list of templated answers as mentioned here? You already provided support about this but I'm wondering if we can hope that one day we can have this whole list (or most of it) at the click of 2 buttons.
Can I have a hyphen or a dash before my name (sign)?
How does automatic signing actually work? It detects and removes my first 4 tildes but then it will keep allowing them indefinitely creating an ever-growing list of signs. Is that an intended outcome? Should it be?
How does comment editing actually work in regard to sign and dates? There has been a huge discussion about it (Phab:T245225) in which I was also part of and I'm curios what stance does Bawl take into that.
How does Include highlighted/selected text as quote with mention actually work? I'm failing to make it work after activating it.
How does Auto-mention actually work?
I'd also wish that the mention function (@someone) could work on summaries as well. See Phab:T305393 for more information.
Should Bawl understand when it's being used on archive pages or especially old revisions of pages? I'd like it if it could do so and maybe act accordingly, like warning and prompting you about general wikiethics and asking if you're extra sure you want to make changes there or not.
Keeping up with that aspect, should Bawl understand other namespaces as well and act accordingly/extend its functionalities per namespace? For example, in category pages it can provide functionalities about the actual categorized members similar to what User:Ahecht/Scripts/refresh.js does.
Can we add issue status on comments (resolved/unresolved) and act accordingly with their collapse/uncollapse state? Follow this comment and its rabbit hole for more information.
Can we open the Bawl settings anywhere without needing to actually start a workflow with it? I find that aspect a bit annoying.
Considering that Bawl interacts with the watchlist, can it have functions such as the ones mentioned here? The conversation will tell you what is the ideal state I'm actually after for.
Can we have a button that allows us to switch back to DT by keeping intact all other features and enhancements Bawl has to offer everywhere else? I believe advanced expert settings allow for something similar but they need you to go one by one while I can think of many scenarios where I'd wish to go back and forth between DT and Bawl many times in an moment during my wikiworkshops and general testing when dealing with Mediawiki developing. - Klein Muçi (talk) 12:59, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, it would be convenient if the requests could be grouped in more bite-sized portions.
Done
Will do
It's a stupid feature. I hate it. It wasn't my idea, Bawl only has it to provide feature parity with DiscussionTools. To cut down on translation I worded it like that as this is valid for 0, 1 and >1. Open to suggestions, though. Ideally something suitable is found in [24].
No such thing as "hover" on mobile. Other than that, a popup or whatever would be possible. Question remains: why.
Define the "it" you'd need to click? Triple-clicking text selects a line. (on my machine at least)
I will NOT replace the native browser context menu. Appending to the native browser context menu is AFAIK not possible, at least I've never seen it. I'd consider that a huge security risk. Also, again, this is inaccessible on mobile.
What do you want to know? Subscriptions are used in a few different ways: by highlighting unread comments in subscribed sections (if you enable that), by delivering notices about new comments through echo emulation (if you enable "Notify me about new comments in the general notification area") or on your watchlist if you enable "[unfinished] Show unread comments from subscribed sections on watchlist" which isn't even available unless you enable the expert options. Maybe I'll auto-check the notifications thing when enabling subscription icons/auto subscription.
The idea is that you click it and it switches between basic source, 2010 wikitext editor and (for comments) VisualLight. Not sure what you expect. If it's broken (could be, changed something today) please elaborate.
Done, some messages for editing etc already existed.
Inconsistent where? Buttons/links with labels have no tooltip/aria-label, buttons/links without do. Very consistent.This stuff is mostly provided to aid screen readers. Tooltips are are not consistently accessible anyway.
You edit your comment, NOT your signature/timestamp. Would create a massive headache otherwise. Great, a lengthy discussion, developers are good at that. While they wasted their time I just made the bloody thing. The open question "How should notifications behave when a contributor @ mentions someone new" isn't an open question anymore either, Bawl automatically performs WP:PINGFIX.
Select text, click speech bubble. I'll test it again in case I broke it. Browser-specific issues might exist.
Click a speech bubble to open a reply form, mention gets preloaded.
It only works for people who commented in the discussion. And the summary field is not visible by default when commenting. Are you sure this is useful? That task says "Suggest usernames of users that have been part of the page history and more", this information would have to be retrieved when you try to mention a user in an edit summary. Seems like a bit of a niche feature. In the task you also say "text formatting in summaries" which will NOT happen, EVER, for technical reasons. (could be hacked client side though, I might do that, but that wouldn't require Bawl)
Settings, advanced, enable expert options, "Enable Bawl on diffs/old revisions. Terrible idea. Don't do it." (yes, it literally says that) There is no "acting accordingly" here, it's borderline irresponsible.
Bawl already considers the namespace. When you edit a transcluded page (like template documentation) Bawl will already automatically purge the current page. Bawl vanilla doesn't do batch editing, I see no obvious reason to integrate User:Ahecht/Scripts/refresh.js into Bawl. You could always make a module, of course.
A decision would have to be made on how/where to store this information. I don't want any enwiki-specific solution for this. If you can get Jack on board Bawl and CD could offer this functionality using the same format.
What do you mean? Like opening the settings without the editing form? Because that was requested before and I ultimately declined it. Again, could be a module.
Bawl barely interacts with the watchlist. The check for new comments always runs on the watchlist (regardless of the configured delay) and new comments can be displayed by an unfinished feature, but that's pretty much it. Not sure what you want.
With expert settings enabled, uncheck "Hide reply links from DiscussionTools" to get both Bawl and DT. Though you should consider using an alternative account for wiki-tutoring with which you stick to default settings to have an experience similar to that of your students.
I get your point about 0, 1 and >1. Unfortunately I can't think of a catch all phrase that would help with all three occasions. Maybe you can say something like 0 comments and 2 comments but the singular version is hard to accommodate with the other two.
I was thinking about the hover/mobile part. There are many times when I've desired some hover related functionality/tooltips and the mobile part has been presented as a challenge. In the past, I've found myself quite some time in occasions where I start checking discussions randomly to find ones where I can help or out of sheer curiosity. In those cases you want to be able to quickly gather some information - How active is the discussion, what is it about and who is taking part. This can ease your participation in it. Sometimes you want to "fork the discussion privately" in one user's personal talk page, hence the link form.
"It" - Any character, space included, of a certain comment that would get highlighted if comment highlighting was turned on. I just wish for a way to easily edit a comment without needing to trace where it ends and locate the pencil icon. This would be helpful in long comments. I just furiously press on any part of the said comment, or maybe right click it, or do something else similar and it gets opened for editing. That behavior appears instinctive to me. By your answers I'm starting to think nothing of those is possible though.
Thanks for the information! From my perspective, I just see a bell beside every comment and clicking it makes it appear stricken through and clicking it again removes the strike. Hovering over it gives no information at what's happening. What do the 2 icons mean? Am I subscribed to comments automatically? Does clicking the normal bell subscribe me on something or unsubscribe me? Maybe 2 tooltips can help explaining what's going on on each case?
I'm unsure how editors change from each other. I'm not even sure what I'm currently using in my everyday usage. Can a tooltip be added that shows what editor I'm currently on every time I switch?
I understand what you mean about tooltips not being universal. I believe the cases mentioned above will be helpful in better expressing what I meant with them being inconsistent.
I was hoping for a standardizing option of the sort Automatically add an hyphen/dash before my signature. This would bring a bit of overall consistency on signatures' styling, at least in regard to this element.
Never mind about the signing problem. Basically I was just adding the 4 tildes group many times in a row and I was getting the signature added many times in a row, as you'd expect. At the time I thought it maybe could be a good idea to only allow 1 signature to happen and automatically remove the other ones when saving the comment but I believe MAYBE that's not the way to go.
Selected text is included as a quote with the q tags. Thank you! I was expecting it to be included inside a {{tq}} template but maybe the current way is better.
Yeah, it was made clear to me that summary formatting or editing was a no-no thing. I just wish we could provide at least the name dropdown function for the cases I've explained in the task. It looks easy to hijack/adopt an existing functionality and extend its use there. Also it doesn't look like it brings any harm so...
I see what you mean. Tried it out now and actually removed it but I found a "bug" on the meanwhile: If you try to edit the whole page while being in an old version you get the edit notice notifying you that you should be careful because you're not in the actual version. If you try to edit any comment whatsoever or try to reply to them, you don't get any warning at all. Maybe you should somehow.
My idea about discussion statuses (resolved/unresolved) was to have them behave similarly to what Mediawiki.org currently uses on its discussions.
Yes, I mean exactly that. I find it strange that I need to interact with a random discussion to be able to access the settings. But if you think there's no better way...
Never mind about the watchlist.
I've thought about that suggestion but the problem is that I would have a hard time utilizing my elevated privileges with 2 accounts which can be useful to quickly correct problems that new users bring. In regard to your explanation, thank you! It works as intended. The only strange part is that you can actually get 2 reply text boxes simultaneously like that, one from DT, one from Bawl. Is that "intended"?
Extra:
The preview button "does nothing" when live preview is activated and that looks strange. At least it appears to act that way even though it can act as a refresh button in the background for the live preview. Should something be done about it? - Klein Muçi (talk) 00:58, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, I get your point about 0, 1 and >1 It says "Comments: NUMBER" now. I just wish for a way to easily edit a comment without needing to trace where it ends and locate the pencil icon. Done, opt-in double-click to edit/reply. I just see a bell beside every comment Seems I forgot to add title and screenreader hints to the bell icon, will fix. Can a tooltip be added that shows what editor I'm currently on every time I switch? No, but a mw.notify() will be better. Editor switching is disabled by default exactly to avoid overwhelming new users. I was hoping for a standardizing option of the sort Automatically add an hyphen/dash before my signature. Lobby for a change to the default signature instead? I thought it maybe could be a good idea to only allow 1 signature to happen If you type four tildes at the very end (which some users do habitually) it gets filtered. Otherwise, how would you accidentally insert multiple signatures? Selected text is included as a quote with the q tags. Thank you! I was expecting it to be included inside a Example text template but maybe the current way is better. Depends on the wiki. On enwiki it's {{tq}}. See User:Alexis Jazz/Bawl/Mumbo jumbo#Templates Bawl can use. Also it doesn't look like it brings any harm so... Anything can be harmful and nothing has to be simple. This will likely end up being confusing unless the details are very well thought out. If you try to edit any comment whatsoever or try to reply to them, you don't get any warning at all. Maybe you should somehow. You can edit the full page regardless of the old rev/diff setting. The warning for commenting on old diffs/revs is in the setting description: "Enable Bawl on diffs/old revisions. Terrible idea. Don't do it." It's another example of a stupid feature that only exists for the sake of DT feature parity. My idea about discussion statuses (resolved/unresolved) was to have them behave similarly to what Mediawiki.org currently uses MediaWiki.org uses mw:Flow. Flow uses its own PageContentModel so you might as well refer to the behavior of Stack Overflow or GitHub. Again, get Jack. But if you think there's no better way... You get used to it. Special:Preferences is off limits and the sidebar is crowded enough as it is, so there's nowhere to go. but the problem is that I would have a hard time utilizing my elevated privileges with 2 accounts which can be useful to quickly correct problems that new users bring Try enabling ninja mode before you start tutoring. ("Load links within page content only after pressing a section header") The only strange part is that you can actually get 2 reply text boxes simultaneously like that, one from DT, one from Bawl. Is that "intended"? You can open both, if you click both. The preview button "does nothing" when live preview is activated and that looks strange. It actually does do something. Some transformations like URL rewriting and WP:AWB/Typos are skipped for live preview. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 17:58, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
Thank you! If I'm not wrong, beside the bell, there are other cases where the tooltips get messed up or are lacking though. I thought that was more or less intentional (generic tooltips repeated in different icons) but now I'm wondering if I should actually make note of these cases and report them here. Tell me if I should do so (even though I believe just activating most functions and hovering over the icons yourself will be easier to accomplish).
I have lobbied for a change to the default signature. Somehow... When reply link launched (which would evolve to become DT later) that was one of the first discussions I started, asking for a line of some sort before the signature. As you'd expect, users couldn't quite agree on the sort of line that could be used and more or less it "was decided" that that would be a thing to be chosen later because at the moments there were bigger problems to be solved. I might open another similar discussion but basically it would be in the context of DT functionalities most likely, that's why I tried with Bawl as well. But it's okay nonetheless.
If you type four tildes at the very end (which some users do habitually) it gets filtered. - That's what I meant with my question in the beginning. It detects and removes my first 4 tildes but then it will keep allowing them indefinitely creating an ever-growing list of signs. Is that an intended outcome? Should it be? The question practically is on the other side compared to the one you just asked: Are there scenarios where multiple signatures in a row are beneficial? If the answer is "probably no", then I suggested that maybe Bawl shouldn't just "filter" the first 4 tildes but filter them all and only allow for 1 signature to exist in the end, to failproof any future accidents whatsoever. The answer to that question may very well be "yes" though, so there's that.
People rarely use the @ character in summaries so I highly doubt it would bring any accidents. If it was in my hands, that's something I would implement, together with the participants' names (and to be honest, I still wish those 2 features can be a thing in the future) but alas, it's not, so...
Yes, I understand that the resolved/unresolved, topic summary, etc. are Flow features. But I thought the resolve status was a good feature that paired nicely with the collapse/uncollapse functionality (as you may have seen from the links I provided above about this). Anyway, we'll count on Jackie to build this functionality.
If those 2 places aren't a solution, at least it could be on the same row as the other "initial icons" (the link, the speech bubble, etc.) and not have to actually press the speech bubble/pencil before getting to it.
Extra: When the live preview is out of focus, can we make clicking the Preview button somehow bring it back in? Even though I'm kinda unsure on this request because I wouldn't want to completely lose focus on what I'm currently writing. Maybe some kind of middle-ground can be found. - Klein Muçi (talk) 23:06, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, I have lobbied for a change to the default signature. Done to failproof any future accidents whatsoever. There are a million things users can theoretically screw up like WP:BEANS. Don't bother unless users actually do screw something up on a regular basis. People rarely use the @ character in summaries so I highly doubt it would bring any accidents. That's not the issue. Where are the usernames supposed to be sourced from? Is this actually something for which there is a general need? This could be done perfectly within a module and/or a standalone script. together with the participants' names Done Anyway, we'll count on Jackie to build this functionality. Don't need Jack to create it per se, but need Jack to decide on some semblance of a standard. But you're the one who wants this, so you pitch it to Jack. If Jack agrees we can decide on a data format and make our own implementations. Maybe some kind of middle-ground can be found. Can't think of one. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 01:06, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
Where are the usernames supposed to be sourced from? - I'm not sure exactly as to what you're asking. If the question isn't too tech-sided, the said feature should behave exactly like the current mention feature we currently have for the body field of the message only that it works even on the summary field. Basically just extended that functionality to include the summary field, if that makes sense.
Klein Muçi, Can the participant names + their corresponding talk pages be wikilinked so it is easier to reach them personally? Done— Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 17:09, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
Wait... The popup doesn't understand missing links. Links are always blue, no matter if they exist or not. The ideal state would be to have them red only if they don't exist at all (meaning there's not even a global page at Meta) but I don't believe there's a way to differentiate between those 2 modes. - Klein Muçi (talk) 17:34, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
┌──────────────────────────────┘ Klein Muçi, that would require parsing the popup contents. Would be slightly less responsive as you'd have to wait for the parse request to come back, not sure if worth it. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 20:35, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
13. See above 14. See above 15. See above 16. See above 17. Expanded setting description 18. Too complicated, unclear what exactly is requested. Try copy-pasting bare URLs to user pages into the summary instead 19. See above 20. See above 21. See above, get Jack 22. No 23. See above 24. See above — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 00:09, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
Not wanting to press on this but just to explain since you've said 18. Too complicated, unclear what exactly is requested. I just meant to basically be able to utilize the same functionality as where you press @ and you get suggested names to mention in the summary field. That's it. Be able to mention people in the summary field like we can do in the body field. I understand if that can't be accomplished for whatever reason.
After some testing I also understood what ninja mode served for. Stats still get rendered on it though, together with the bubble and the pencil at the top. Considering its aim shouldn't they disappear too? - Klein Muçi (talk) 00:44, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, the same functionality as where you press @ This would end up being so much more complicated than you think it is. What if a wiki uses a ping template by default? That doesn't work in summaries. The @ menu is in a fixed position, so that's going to be confusing. And it would only work when commenting, which is generally when you'd need this the least because you can just ping the user(s) in the text. Stats still get rendered on it though No they don't. You're probably looking at DT's stats. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 01:29, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
Oh... Okay, you're right on that. I didn't think through the implementation.
And oh x2. You're right again. That would explain why the stats suddenly changed wording from "newest" to "latest" and back to "newest". Now I understand why exactly that would help me when tutoring! It still appears broken to me though. I can't open/collapse any discussion whatsoever no matter where I try if that mode is active. - Klein Muçi (talk) 01:45, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, Ninja mode appears to be currently broken, if I'm not misusing it. I can't collapse any section while on it. I can't remember but I think I fixed that, I can't reproduce it currently. Are you still experiencing this issue? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:08, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz, yes, it got fixed. The only remaining thing is that the three top icons are still there even in ninja mode (arrow, pencil, bubble). I'm not sure if they should. - Klein Muçi (talk) 14:36, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, arrow shouldn't be there until you press a section header. Ninja mode was originally made for performance reasons. With many options enabled, using a 9-year old smartphone with all power saving features enabled on a discussion page with 1000+ comments Bawl got a bit slow. If a user mostly just reads discussions on their phone, ninja mode can reduce power consumption a little bit. Loading links isn't needed to edit the whole page or add a new section so at least performance-wise there's no reason to skip those. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 15:44, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
I understand. They can stay then. (Arrow is not there anymore, don't know if something was changed or it was my mistake.) I have only one "request": If you interact with one section while in ninja mode, I believe the said section should render in a collapsed form in Bawl. - Klein Muçi (talk) 16:51, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
Also, speaking of interaction, there should be a way to break ninja mode beside the "interact with the title" one that includes interaction with the body of the discussion. Going to the title is hard to do on long discussions. Maybe by double-clicking it. — Klein Muçi (talk) 12:58, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz, red links on the participant's popup. Worth it or not. If it greatly extends the time for the popup to work, it's not. If it doesn't it maybe is. That's what we were talking here. - Klein Muçi (talk) 15:25, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, oh, right, something got lost in translation and the indentation of this section is funny so I lost context. In English you'd say "if it would be considerably slower" or "if it would take noticeably longer" or "if it would take noticeably more time". Anyway it's Done. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 16:50, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
Another report with questions, features and bugs 1
When settings get activated they should get autofocused. Many times they open below the current position in a page and you have no idea if something happened after you clicked the cog or not. The screen should autofocus back to the text box after you save the settings (this already happens correctly when you cancel them). Having a "back to the top" icon just for the setting window could be helpful also. (Sometimes when using the filter option, the list gets extra long.) - Better yet, settings can be a popup window altogether and save us from all the aforementioned hassle;
It appears that Put autopost-type custom inserts above the reply form doesn't work as intended as nothing is changing in my custom inserts position. Maybe I'm not utilizing it correctly or I've misunderstood it's function;
I have a big arrow (the same arrow that collapses sections but bigger) beside the title in my talk page. After meddling with it for 2 days I still have no idea what it does or if it does anything;
When link copying is activated, it would be nice to be able to differentiate between types of links visually, for example by changing the boxes' outlines' colors or by adding small representative icons beside them;
Link inserting doesn't understand how template/category linking works. When utilizing templates, users usually want to transclude them, not literally link. With categories is even worse as with the missing colon, it just categorizes that page instead of linking to the said category;
When inserting external links without a name, an extra space remains between the link and the closing square brackets;
Klein Muçi, 1. Partially Done (scrolling only failed when opening the settings repeatedly), unclear where a "back to the top" icon would have to be placed. I'd rather introduce another settings level (besides expert) to shorten the list of settings that are visible by default. No on the popup question. Popups are generally for things that must be dealt with. You can open the settings and ignore them. 2. You probably have no custom inserts of the autopost type. 3. It should collapse/uncollapse all sections, but the feature appears to be broken on at least some pages. 4. The color blind hate you. There is no obvious icon choice either. 5. Inserting templates like that is not a good idea. For commonly used templates you should create a custom insert, for others a user can't be expected memorize the template name. For the parameters you'll also need to look up the documentation. With categories, who is to say what a user wants. 6. Done— Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 02:05, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
Okay.
What are autopost type inserts?
Good (?) to know. :P
I used to use this script for that functionality which utilized 2 icons which maybe would make color blinds hate me a bit less?
Agree on templates (the parameter part is a good argument) but I think with cats it should be provided as a functionality somehow, maybe utilizing a tickbox of some sort as it has been an old problem with new users
Thank you! On this though, I don't know exactly how external links are detected but apparently whatever mechanism is used is, of course, not perfect. It behaves well with www.facebook.com but it treats facebook.com as an internal link. Don't know if something can be done about that. -
Klein Muçi, 2. User:Alexis Jazz/Bawl/Custom inserts and replacements basically you click them and they insert or replace text and immediately submit the form after that. 3. Should work better now. 4. I see a link icon and a copy icon. No permalink and non-permalink icons. 5. I'll need to think about the how. Maybe an extra button that only appears when entering a category. 6. scout.com is a valid internal link. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 20:54, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
2. Well then, yes, I do have them. But still that tickbox makes no difference;
Also the link textbox, similar to the move one, only understands about local names, even though it can act nicely on both. - Klein Muçi (talk) 02:20, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, 2. You have at least one button with blue text on a grey background? Where is it located? 3. What is? Also the link textbox, similar to the move one, only understands about local names, even though it can act nicely on both. What does "both" refer to? Is something happening you didn't expect? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 07:15, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
2. I have 4 buttons with black text on a grey background located "at the bottom", below the line where the 8 icons (4 and 4) and the 3 native buttons are. They always stay there no matter if I tick that box or not;
3. The arrow and its surrounding highlight. They got bigger than they already were, no? Also compare with the pencil, speech bubble and their highlight in the top, beside it;
As you'll see in Another report with questions, features and bugs 4, request 6, the suggestion features on link and move textboxes can understand local namespace names but can't understand universal English ones (you don't get any suggestions if you're using them), although they do work per se. "Both" is referring to the universal ones in this case (and the local ones). Another "problem" with languages such as Albanian is that we usually use substitutes for our special characters such as E for Ë and C for Ç. The first pair is important as it appears in "Përdoruesi" which means "User", the only namespace with a special character. Neither of the textboxes can do that kind of conversion. This is not a bug per se as they're basically different characters and normally we're writing different words which are read differently as we do have and use the 4 letters in our language (they can't be interchanged). This type of writing only evolved after computers were introduced and their keyboards didn't have the said characters, only having c and e instead. - Klein Muçi (talk) 09:06, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
Also, only now I notice that the settings' behavior is still not consistent on canceling and saving them in regard to autofocus. Choose a discussion, choose a comment, click the speech bubble. Click the cog, scroll down to a certain setting, interact with it (mark/unmark the tickbox). Scroll down and click the save button. See what happens with the autofocus feature. Click the cog again, scroll down to a certain setting, interact with it (mark/unmark the tickbox). Scroll down and click the cancel button. See what happens with the autofocus feature. - Klein Muçi (talk) 09:30, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, I have 4 buttons with black text on a grey background Not the autopost type. Autopost is progressively styled. The arrow and its surrounding highlight. They got bigger than they already were, no? I didn't notice. How much bigger? the suggestion features on link and move textboxes can understand local namespace names but can't understand universal English ones Limitation of opensearch I guess, fixed for canonical names by rewriting canonical namespaces to localized ones. For the Përdoruesi/Perdoruesi I see no obvious solution. A Phabricator ticket may or may not exist for namespace alias support in opensearch. Also, only now I notice that the settings' behavior is still not consistent on canceling and saving them in regard to autofocus. Done— Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 18:36, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
I'm not sure now as maybe my eyes got used to it but it looked gigantic in the beginning. The highlighting still looks though but that's a problem that we can discuss on the section I've started about visual aspects.
Qwerfjkl, your link works for me. (scrolls to Fayenatic's comment) Are there speech bubbles etc. on the page? At the very moment the report was generated there weren't, but if they did load afterwards it's a timing issue. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 14:21, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I found this issue: When doubleclick-editing was introduced it made the overall interaction a bit hard in some instances (when multiple options are enabled).
In doubleclick-replies, if Include highlighted/selected text as quote with mention is on, the replies start with some random quotes which are the words that get randomly selected from the comments when you doubleclicked on them.
When doubleclicking your own comments, if both options are enabled, there is no way to "reply" to them.
When you open a comment link with comment highlighting and doubleclicking-editing options on, strange things happen when you click/doubleclick the textholder box. - Klein Muçi (talk) 17:06, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, 1. Done 2. You can press the speech bubble. Otherwise correct. Doubleclick opens an edit form when there is an edit marker, otherwise a reply form. By design. How else would you expect it to work? 3. What is "the textholder box"? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 11:32, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
I'm not sure actually. I can't think of a logical way that by double-clicking your own comments alone you could tell the system to differentiate between editing and replying to them. If we want to go the extra mile maybe we can include a keyboard shortcut (e.g. double click + Enter/any other key) and that could be a solution but I kinda feel like it would fall on the Easter egg category.
Go to any comment and click the link icon. You'll get the link. Click on it (the link) some times. What happens is probably not what you'd expect to happen (even though now is better than it was). - Klein Muçi (talk) 11:42, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I'm not really sure if they're fixed. Maybe they are but a new bug has been introduced to autofocus and doubleclicking which makes it impossible to try this out. If you click some times in the permalink form you get autofocused to the top of the discussion, the title. This is also what happens when you try to doubleclick-edit your comment, as mentioned in your personal talk page. — Klein Muçi (talk) 11:19, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
The bug I mentioned above is no more. I tested the permalink form and is working correctly as well so I guess this is done as well. — Klein Muçi (talk) 21:58, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
Tooltip missing in the regex text and move content fields (compare with the add link fields);
Wrong tooltips:
Wrong tooltip in both links you get after clicking the heart for thanking;
Things go weird tooltip-wise when the section link icon is clicked;
Tooltips most likely missing:
Tooltip most likely missing at the collapsing arrow;
Tooltip most likely missing at the date-link in the title-statistics explaining about the link's function;
Tooltip most likely missing in the filter field in settings;
Tooltip most likely missing in the normal and permalink text-boxes (compare with the add link fields);
Tooltip most likely missing in the "see next unread comment button/counter"
Tooltip most likely missing in the autofocus bubble;
No tooltips (most likely intended):
No tooltips in the send/preview/cancel/diff buttons;
No tooltip in the add link/cancel buttons;
No tooltip in the replace/regex, dry test and generate list buttons;
No tooltips in the copy/cancel link/permalink buttons;
No tooltip in allow page creation/wrap section tickboxes;
No tooltips whatsoever in the settings be that in the filter field, in the tickboxes, dropdown menus or any kind of button
To keep in mind: When icon metamorphoses gets implemented, corresponding tooltips should preferably change accordingly too. - Klein Muçi (talk) 10:53, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, Done, I think. Things go weird tooltip-wise when the section link icon is clicked Not sure what you mean by "go weird". — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 04:32, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
Tooltip missing in the move content field; (this should be added for consistency)
Tooltip missing in the autofocus bubble (now autofocus text link); (you decide about this)
Also, again something you should decide and I'm mentioning only for the sake of "having my conscience cleared": Are we sure we don't want tooltips in any of the 6 points mentioned in No tooltips (most likely intended)? Consider the following things:
In some of those points we're talking about advanced options, including the dry run button, regex searches or new page creation possibilities;
Having tooltips in almost everywhere now, their lack may be easier to be noticed and their presence may be easier to be missed;
Bawl is growing to be a very powerful editor (it already has reached top for talkspace editing and there is potential to outshine the current editors even in other NSs). This is excellent news for senior editors but usually it's not so for junior ones to which the experience may appear overwhelming and scare them away. Guiding and easing-in strategies should be thought of at this point and documentation and tooltips are the basis of that.
Klein Muçi, 1. Done, but it just duplicates the placeholder. 2. Is now an OO.ui.ButtonWidget and as it has a readable text label there's no need for a tooltip. The other buttons/checkboxes have text labels. I originally added titles for screen readers, not so much for hovering. I've since learned that (depending on the element) aria-label should be used for that purpose. When a button or checkbox already has an understandable text label there's no need for an aria-label or title. Titles have accessibility issues so they can't be relied on. The copy/cancel link/permalink buttons have a title+aria-label now as they don't have a text label. The filter setting text input has a title+aria-label now as normally its position would partially communicate its function which wouldn't be as clear to a screen reader user. 1. Dry run is disabled by default. No buttons with an understandable plain text label have a tooltip or aria-label. 3. The guiding is mostly done by having many features disabled by default or stuffed away in the advanced tools section, users can enable them when they're ready. Tooltips are not consistently accessible so they shouldn't be relied upon. Adding tooltips or some other kind of popup to everything would also cause the translation object to grow to many times its current size. But I agree wholeheartedly on the documentation argument. I've been planning to set up pages on meta-wiki for this (so they can be translated with the translation tool) but there are only so many hours in a day. And if I rename the tool I should pick a new name before creating a bunch of pages. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 13:48, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I would suggest adding something like "append to the bottom of the page" instead of that, anything that explains how/where the move will happen as "moving" means different things in the wikiworld, starting from renaming, to copy-pasting, archiving, etc. The OO.ui.ButtonWidget change is cool. Can we remove the padding around? I believe the small window with the text is enough, there's no need for a double one. I'd also choose a smaller font but you decide on both those details. I understand what you mean with the documentation and script name. Well, far from actually being the correct way but in the wikiworld documentation usually comes long after a feature has been introduced so take your time on that. — Klein Muçi (talk) 14:59, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, Can we remove the padding around? No, the button blends into the text if you do that. That could be resolved with progressive+primary flags so the button becomes blue, but another issue is that it could be mistaken for being part of some other unrelated form. but in the wikiworld documentation usually comes long after a feature has been introduced so take your time on that. Many people could write documentation/make instructional videos/etc. Far fewer can create the actual features. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 15:27, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I found this issue: Bawl fires up when protecting/moving/deleting pages, the pages that follow after those actions have been completed and special pages. - Klein Muçi (talk) 17:32, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
Strangely enough, it doesn't fire up in doc pages when transcluded on templates/modules. I would have guessed it would somehow. - Klein Muçi (talk) 17:40, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
It even fires up in old revs and while comparing diffs, even though I haven't activated THAT option of Bawl. In all these cases I mean the icons and functions of the pencil and the speech bubble at the top of the page. - Klein Muçi (talk) 17:49, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, Bawl loads basically everywhere. Several reasons: to facilitate the "generate bulleted/numbered list of links" option on many pages, because Bawl has to load to show notifications about new comments and reminders from Memoria and to provide functions like URL rewriting on other input fields. For example, I have URL rewriting enabled on the summary field of Special:MovePage. It even fires up in old revs and while comparing diffs, even though I haven't activated THAT option of Bawl. It's working as intended but I'll need to update the description of that setting. No links inside the page content (#mw-content-text, #mw-content-text) are being loaded. I might have written that description before full page editing even existed. Strangely enough, it doesn't fire up in doc pages when transcluded on templates/modules. If you enable full section editing it will, assuming the documentation has sections. The "Template documentation [view] [edit] [history] [purge]" line is nonstandard stuff that is generated by Module:Documentation, Bawl doesn't read that. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 17:58, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
I kinda feel like we're not talking about the same effect. For example, clicking the pencil icon in special pages, like, let's say, Special:Version, makes no sense and it gives way for a strange behavior. (Try it.) The same thing happens in the other places I mentioned as well. And things get even weirder when normal users somehow get the ability to edit pages fully protected when clicking the same pencil icon. Just tried it now here in EnWiki and I was editing with Bawl a fully protected page even though I don't have admin privileges. Didn't try to save though, even though of course I believe it wouldn't have allowed me in the end. - Klein Muçi (talk) 18:10, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, go to Special:Version, open Bawl, magnifier icon, generate bulleted list of links, enter Wikipedia:Sandbox in the "move content to page" field. Bam! Awesome. It's also handy to view source using CodeEditor/CodeMirror which is otherwise not possible. But this is opt-in now. And yes, I was referring to the Doc's module behavior in that. I try to avoid most project/template specific stuff in vanilla Bawl. Modules can be created for that. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:56, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
I understand now but the process appears unrefined. Try it in my homewiki. Go here and click the pencil. You'll get a white screen with a broken link from God knows where. Most likely that's a localized problem but I have no idea what's going on. Even after passing that challenge, you'll get another "broken" editing screen in which you can't actually edit anything. Then you can go on and work you magic in the advanced form. This process happens in almost all uncommon pages. In protected ones you also get the ability to somehow edit the page which can be pretty confusing for people not knowing what's going on. - Klein Muçi (talk) 22:16, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, you messed up! (possibly) If I try to move a section to a non-existing page without ticking the page creation tickbox I get this error. A bit rough, no?
Alexis Jazz, you messed up! (possibly) Extra blue bubble speech at the bottom of the page, just above the "Create new section" link.
Replylinkparams:
{"int":6749,"id":"heading-6749","type":"newheading","subtype":"heading","pageTitleInt":6749,"origReplyTo":"","pageTitle":"Wikipedia:Teahouse","sectionTitle":"Best way to add an IP address to a sockpuppet investigation? and protect pages being edited by sockpuppet?","sectionseq":0}
Klein Muçi, and it's darker than the others, isn't it? That's replySecLink. ("Add extra reply button for the section starter to the bottom of the section if there are >3 commenters") But for the last section the >3 commenters restriction didn't apply. It now does, so this is Done. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:01, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, there was originally a request for a "reply to section" button at the bottom of sections. As wikitext is an unorganized mess, that would be ambiguous and complicated. So instead this option was created: an extra reply speech bubble that is a copy of the speech bubble for the first post in the section. I noticed the extra speech bubble wasn't affected by the grayscale option. (still blue) I fixed that too. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 16:38, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
Bug report
Alexis Jazz, I found this issue: Bawl doesn't interact well with a certain type of inputbox. Check here, try putting a title and pressing the button; The title you put doesn't get saved. - Klein Muçi (talk) 16:08, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
Another small malfunction: The title does indeed work now but every time inputboxes are involved, Bawl doesn't really understand what's going with the new section being created and above the new section form rests "Start a new discussion". If you press it, it disappears. - Klein Muçi (talk) 22:45, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I randomly found out a very minor bug in regard to dash spacing in signatures. Check what happens with the dash when it's coming straight after the Done template in your answers above. — Klein Muçi (talk) 11:26, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, it doesn't matter in this case but I actually have an em dash in my signature in Special:Preferences. But what happens is that my comment ended with a template. A template can end with a linebreak. If this happens, the space would put the signature in pre tags. So when a comment ends with a template, or more precisely, if
Alexis Jazz, you messed up! (possibly) I added a subsection to an existing one. Then I hit the pencil icon to the main section to edit it and remove that added subsection. Before saving, I clicked "show changes". In the changes there were many things I didn't actually do, some links were changed and possibly broken and the changes didn't show the number of characters changed. This is the result to that edit, now reverted and fixed.
Klein Muçi, I can't seem to reproduce it, I'm not sure how exactly you achieved the lack of a char-number diff. As for the changed links, you are probably referring to Përdoruesi diskutim:Klein Muçi (Diff ~2469072) for example. That's the URL rewriting at work. Some Tech News writer lazily copied a page title from their address bar resulting in underscores. The false positive rate of URL rewriting is so low it's just enabled in all modes. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 13:24, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
Yes, I had forgotten to paste the diff-link in my last sentence above. I see now. As for the lack of char-number diff, are you sure you can't reproduce it? For me is consistent (I only noticed now). Hit the pencil icon on any section, hit "Show changes", voila! The native diff comparison appears and you don't get a diff character change beside the "Show changes" button as you usually do. - Klein Muçi (talk) 09:19, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, I get +0 and the diff shows "(No difference)", both as expected. Can you open the browser console and enter $('.BawlDiffPlus,BawlDiffPlusBig,BawlDiffMin,BawlDiffMinBig')? Does the element even exist? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:50, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz, so "Trego ndryshimet" = "Show changes". You can also see my custom inserts in it we were talking earlier, AND if you look closely, you can see at the top of the page the bottom of the diff page opening. You'll notice there is no number whatsoever beside the "Trego ndryshimet" button. - File:Screenshot - Bawl.pngScreenshot showing what happens when I click "Show changes"Klein Muçi (talk) 10:39, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, okay, I forgot to include the Bawl.UIdiffSize element when putting the buttons on the other side, fixed. None of your custom inserts have progressive styling (blue text), so they are not recognized as the autopost type. The first example from User:Alexis Jazz/Bawl/Custom inserts and replacements is an autopost type insert. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 11:12, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz, the bit-counter is located higher than it should. Compare it with its homologue when buttons are on the other side.
Ah! Can/Should the thing be explained a bit better and the Put autopost-type custom inserts above the reply form option be made to work even with "my type" of inserts? - Klein Muçi (talk) 15:36, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, Can/Should the thing be explained a bit better Not sure how. be made to work even with "my type" of inserts? The point of putting autopost inserts above the form is to make it possible to post templated replies very quickly as they will be closer. With regular inserts that doesn't come into play. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 17:00, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
Well, I believe that's the way to explain it. Maybe just 1 sentence showcasing the difference between "autopost inserts" and "regular inserts". Maybe you can call them both "templated answers" and then explain what differences there are between autopost and regular ones. - Klein Muçi (talk) 21:49, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
┌───────────────────────────┘ Klein Muçi, it's not strictly restricted to that. You could write a regular expression to, for example, remove problem tags and turn it into an autopost-type custom insert. Then you could open full page editing mode, press the autopost button for your regular expression and the problem tags are gone. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 05:42, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
{"int":2679,"type":"comment","subtype":"legacy","id":"Graeme_Bartlett:21:18, 21 August 2022 (UTC):2679_2","pageTitleInt":2669,"origReplyTo":"Graeme_Bartlett","origTimestamp":"21:18, 21 August 2022 (UTC)","origTimestampTextNode":"5:18 pm, Today (UTC−4)","seq":2,"pageTitle":"Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion","sectionTitle":"File:Aero Caribbean Logo 2010.svg","sectionseq":0}
Additional information: Username/timestamp combination not found. I was attempting to reply to this comment, when the error popped up. There were multiple signatures by Graeme Bartlett left during the same minute, would that cause issues? I got the same error when trying to reply to the same user on the same page after I posted the comment without Bawl, but at that point I was able to reply to the message that originally caused the error (if that makes sense).
HouseBlaster, no, there's a bug with relative time timestamps it seems. origTimestampTextNode should contain the original content of the timestamp textnode, not the converted content. I think t's searching the wikitext for "5:18 pm, Today (UTC−4)" which obviously won't be there. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 10:13, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
Feature request: auto-escape text for regex config fields
This is a nice to have: I'm having a bit of trouble writing the regex'es in Bawl's config (bc perhaps the syntax is not exactly the same as WM's regex). Could the regex fields auto-escape the characters that it needs escaping when pasting text there? (Not sure you can differentiate pasting from typing though.) — Guarapiranga☎01:26, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
Guarapiranga, if it is enclosed by forward slashes it would be presumed to already be escaped properly. If it's not it would be presumed to be plain text. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 23:43, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
Another report with questions, features and bugs 2
The External URL or article title placeholder box remembers old valid values. (The Move content to page one remembers only the first letter of old values. Is that intended?
If you enter a Link name without an actual link, it actually gets entered in a strange way;
Floating ToC doesn't collapse when you click out of it. Should it? Also Esc can't close it. Should it?;
When Floating ToC is activated, maybe instead of having ToC [show/hide] the name itself should act as the button;
Hide ToC does nothing when Float ToC is enabled;
What does Annoy me with the ToS all the time (you can disable this!) do?
What does Add button to perform a dry run do? (Apparently it adds a button in the "search" (?) options, again something I only found out randomly. I still don't fully understand what the button actually does.)
Klein Muçi, 1. Not sure what you mean, neither should remember old values, they should just provide suggestions using opensearch. I did recently introduce a bug in this that broke opensearch when inserting a link (but not for the content move field), maybe that was it. 2. You can no longer insert an empty link. 3. Escape: can't hurt, that works now. Clicking outside of it: I don't think so. I can imagine valid workflows that involve clicking inside and outside of the ToC without collapsing it. 4. Name and show/hide both (un)collapse the ToC now. 5. Hide ToC now gets greyed out when activating Floating ToC in the settings to signal it won't do anything. (there is no point in making the ToC float if you're gonna hide it anyway) 6. Clarified setting description. (ToS = Terms of service) 7. wikt:en:dry run, clarified description — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:59, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
Just tested and that doesn't seem to happen anymore; Related bug though: If you add a link through the link form or any text through your custom inserts, you can't use Ctrl+Z to revert it (and subsequently Ctrl+Y to redo it).
Yeah, good;
I was thinking the same;
Helpful for interaction but a bit strange to see in action. It kinda feels like a bug;
Yes. Minor bug (?): If you tick it before greying out, the tick will remain;
Thank you!
Well... If it's impotent and harmless... Why is it red?
Klein Muçi, 1. Undo is a browser feature. You appear to be right, but I don't believe I can fix it. If the browser trashes the undo history when the form input changes, well.. 4. Removing elements could lead to accessibility issues or random gadget conflicts. 5. If the users ticks floating ToC, notices this disables hide ToC, realizes they'd rather hide than float the ToC and unticks floating ToC again, hide ToC will still be enabled. I suppose an argument could be made for either way though. 7. It's a feature for testing/development. End users should stay away from it. In the past it pretended to post and closed the form despite not actually saving the input anywhere. Nowadays it doesn't close the form, but it might cause unpredictable behavior. While you could probably post a comment after a dry run, I've never risked it myself. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 01:22, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
Unfortunately no: The way link and move forms work are still unreliable. Sometimes they remember your past valid entry and auto-suggest only that (like summaries do), sometimes they remember only the first letter and the suggestions start with that letter.
Also I tried the new category function and... It doesn't work at all? Tried both versions (link and category), nothing happens on screen. - Klein Muçi (talk) 02:15, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
Never mind, they actually work. The problem is that links don't get added in edit forms somehow, only on reply forms. So in other words, if you click the pencil, nothing works from the links. And the auto-suggestion problem still persists with them. - Klein Muçi (talk) 02:22, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, I don't understand. Sometimes they remember your past valid entry I've explicitly disabled browser autocomplete. I have no idea why it would have ever enabled at all (never did for me), but it no longer should. The problem is that links don't get added in edit forms somehow, only on reply forms. I can't seem to reproduce this. Click the pencil where? On a comment, a section, the full page? All of the above? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:44, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
They only remember the first letter now if you don't close the link form. I guess that's as best as it goes and it's pretty good.
Also... Should the link form be allowed to add the same link multiple times in the same edit? When I asked this question about the signature you said "WP:BEANS", so maybe the answer is "yes". - Klein Muçi (talk) 14:53, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, They work on comments, they don't work on sections and the full page. Should be fixed now. Should the link form be allowed to add the same link multiple times in the same edit? Yes, there are valid reasons to do that anyway. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 16:35, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz, it is. Should we allow link insertion to work on the title field as well? I don't like that practice but I've noticed that there are people who use it. - Klein Muçi (talk) 16:49, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, I don't like it either. I could allow entering two square brackets to activate the link form maybe. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 14:15, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
┌───────────────────────────┘ Alexis Jazz, I believe it would be more consistent if we just allowed the link form to work in all three fields: title, body, summary (and the same thing to happen if users activate the option that entering two square brackets transports you in the link form). I thought this when I remembered that I just asked for the form to work on the summary in your personal talk page so if you agree to that, this would be the most straightforward way. — Klein Muçi (talk) 15:08, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, so where the link gets inserted would depend on which field last had focus? Feels a bit like an Easter egg. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 15:37, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, does it? For me it feels pretty straightforward: If I want to add a link at the title, I click on the title field and go to the link button. If I want to do so in the body, I click at the body and go to the link button and the same happens for the summary. Putting the cursor where you want the thing to happen is universal on the computer world, no? — Klein Muçi (talk) 22:03, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, I'm not sure users would expect this. I'll have to think about how to determine reliably which input was last active. (which isn't entirely trivial because Bawl supports various editors) I'm actually thinking it'll be easier to determine with certainty that the title or summary were selected and assume body otherwise. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 05:23, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, well, yeah. The title and summary fields are the "extra" ones which are expected to be used more rarely in the context of link inserting. I still think whatever way you find for this, the cursor way should exist as an opt in. I don't think I'm the only one that expects things to happen where the cursor is. Currently there is no other way to access this functionality beside first opting in the double square bracket setting, which doesn't mention this functionality at all, making it an Eastern egg. — Klein Muçi (talk) 10:32, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
Another report with questions, features and bugs 4
There's no way to know that Memoria will end up in the tool section. I had activated it for some days and only saw it now randomly. I wish it was more clear where it will end up;
Is there a way to show a "bigger preview" beside the one below the text box? One that showcases how exactly my comment will be formatted in regard to other existing ones, similar to the native preview feature?
None of the settings takes effect without refreshing the page. I'm assuming it's normal but thought I'd say;
What about having an extended tab about extra text formatting options like sub/sup tags, code ones, underline, etc?
Loving the autofocus function. Can we have an option to switch to a similar DT version with a text-link in the middle of the screen instead of the side speech bubble?
The dropdown suggestions in the External URL or article title and Move content to page don't fully understand universal namespaces names in English (don't start suggesting titles), even though they understand local ones perfectly though. Maybe they should also understand the English ones? (The title still works even though it's not suggested.)
Participants should start with a capital P;
Clicking the date-link in "Newest" does nothing when the section is not collapsed. It should autocollapse and autohighlight the last comment. The highlighting part should also happen when collapsed;
Klein Muçi, 1. Hmmm yeah it's an odd case. Memoria doesn't belong in Bawl, but is bound to it because Bawl is the only tool that provides echo emulation. (notifications to self) If phab:T306211 ever gets resolved, Memoria will be removed from Bawl to become a standalone script. I'll clarify the setting description. 2. What are you referring to when you say "native preview feature"? Either way, it's a bit tough. How your comment will be formatted exactly isn't necessarily known at that point. The original wikitext is needed to know that, which is acquired when you post a comment but not necessarily before. (depends on your settings) When you post, the whole form is replaced with the parsed comment. And it would have to be clear that your comment hasn't actually been posted yet - I foresee confused users. So I'd kinda rather not change this. 3. Some do. Added mw.notify. 4. I considered it. The 2010 wikitext editor offers that stuff if you really want it. But for comments, or even beyond comments, realistically: how often do you see anyone using that stuff? Close to never, and when someone does it's often trivial or even counterproductive. Note that (Easter egg alert) many keyboard shortcuts from VisualEditor are actually supported. Ctrl+8 = blockquote, ctrl+shift+5 = strike, ctrl+u = underline, ctrl+, (comma) = subscript, ctrl+. (period) = superscript. 5. I don't understand. "a similar DT version"? If you want Bawl to launch DT the answer the no. 6. Done, canonical namespaces are automatically rewritten to local namespaces now, see above somewhere, opensearch limitation. 7. Should it? Depends on whether you read the pipes as commas or full separators. 8. You mean when the section is collapsed. But, yeah, I'll look into it. 9. Tomayto, tomahto?— Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 21:25, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
If you've already done this, I can't really see any change;
Well, what you get when you're source editing and press "Preview". You see the whole section/page and how it will look like. I meant for an extra button (or maybe a more elegant choice) that would allow you to do that, basically to see how what you're writing will ultimately render in relation to the whole thing, for example, where a comment "will land" in regard to the other ones, how it will be indented, how a section will look in regard to the whole page... You get the idea. This is more useful for comments and replies than other kinds of changes, to see the overall indentation and be sure that you're doing your best to preserve the flow of conversation as good as possible;
Okay;
I get your way of thinking. I actually do use quite a lot of formatting myself (the code tags and list's formatting options to name just a few) but I write them manually. I don't know what "the younger generation" does though. I've seen that most new users tend to be VE specific and know nothing of markdown. You decide on this;
No, see how DT handles reply autofocus. There is a floating box that renders in the middle top or bottom part of the screen depending if you scrolled further up or down which reads "Return to reply" in blue with an arrow pointing up or down (again, depending if you scrolled further up or down). I wanted the same functionality from Bawl: The bubble icon to become a text-link floating box that renders either in mid-top or mid-bottom. The current bubble speech icon at the side misbehaves with the sidebar links when scrolling up and having an icon be in the middle of the screen would look weird (a floating text-link looks less intrusive);
No, now it shouldn't. Now Newest should start with a small N. You changed how Comments was written. It's just about visual consistency between those 3 terms;
Hah! I suppose. I've just not stumbled upon many cases where "newest" is used in this context. My non-native eyes are sensitive to these kinds of details. But you decide.
Klein Muçi, 1. Hadn't put it on wiki yet. 2. Indentation is currently determined in Bawl.postReply2 and requires the source wikitext. This feature request would likely introduce many new bugs so this project will never be finished. I'll just put the idea on the shelf, maybe later. 4. I use User:Alexis Jazz/Bawl/Custom inserts and replacements#Code nowiki for code tags. 5. Done (and was way more complicated than you'd think) 6. Done? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 02:50, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz: 1. Nitpick but I'd suggest switching the comma with a hyphen; :P 2. I understand; 4. Nice idea. Speaking of that, what does /[^]+//:<<AUTOPOSTblank>> do if added as a comment? Does it really do what it says it does? 5. Glad to read that the end results were positive; 6. The question mark describes how I'm feeling about this. Latest is still the only word starting with a capital letter but that section's styling is different from the other 2 stats so... I guess is good. Maybe if we wanted to be extreme about this we could say that it would be better that each stat-section started with the same format (number + word) but... It's good I guess. — Klein Muçi (talk) 11:15, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, I didn't read it correctly I think: if you added that as a comment it would just post an empty comment. (only indentation+signature) It's meant to be used with full page/full section editing. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 17:09, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, ah! I thought it could act as a bomb you planted somewhere and it deleted the whole page when the edit was saved. That's why I was surprised. Its usage is way more normal then. — Klein Muçi (talk) 22:21, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Bug report (25 August 2022, 00:39)
Alexis Jazz, I found this issue: Click on any of the 3 blue buttons on this page while on ninja mode (let's say on the bug report one). When the form opens, scroll below. You'll see your ol' fren' Bawl there. It shouldn't be there. - Klein Muçi (talk) 00:39, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, I vaguely remember fixing this so only Bawl opens. (with section=new takeover) And no, ninja mode isn't supposed to prevent that. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 05:46, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
Another report with questions, features and bugs 3
What does Automatically fade out comment highlighting by DiscussionTools exactly do?
What does Button to scroll to the next unread comment on a page in sections you subscribed to do? I don't see any new button when I activate it;
What happens if you activate Enable switching between editors and then you activate all three skip options below it? Isn't that kind of paradoxical?
"Start a new discussion" (at the bottom of the page) fires up in all the Wikipedia and Help namespaces - 70% of the time these are pages in which it wouldn't make sense at all to "start a new discussion" as they're supposed to be read only. I believe this is intentional but it's really weird to see it in the aforementioned read-only pages;
Marked timestamps never disappear. The marking on them extends where it shouldn't, beyond the timestamp;
Add one-sided border to new comments since your last visit to the page is broken. Unselecting Mark timestamps of new comments since your last visit to the page automatically unselects Add one-sided border to new comments since your last visit to the page. If you select it again nonetheless, weird things happen: Borders never disappear, they extend all the way down when you activate the settings on a comment and engulf them (the settings window), the tick box appears unchecked every time you reopen the settings and sometimes comments literally move horizontally;
Klein Muçi, 1. Pretty much what it says.. When you follow a link from your alerts about a mention, it sends you to for example #c-Klein Muçi-20220820153600-Alexis Jazz-20220820111200. (DT's poorly designed comment ID system - it has failed me more than once) This will highlight the comment in blue, and it stays blue, forever. Talking about crap UI design, true story: I had been severely straining my eyes trying to read the black text of comments on a blue background. After a while I started removing the anchor from the URL and reloading the page. Eventually I found out that the highlighting can be removed by clicking the comment. Requiring a click for something I'm going to want anyway needlessly disrupts workflow. So by default, Bawl fixes DT's highlighting. 2. You probably either haven't subscribed to anything or there are no new comments in the sections you subscribed to. Try subscribing to some very active sections. Active discussions on high-traffic pages like WP:HD or WP:ANI should give results quickly. Or subscribe to a section and reply in it with another account on another device. 3. Well.. yeah, that's a double negative I suppose. Now automatically disabled editor switching when you enable all skip options. 4. Mistranslation on https://translatewiki.net/wiki/MediaWiki:Tooltip-ca-addsection/sq, just fix it there. (note that https://translatewiki.net/wiki/MediaWiki:Tooltip-ca-addsection/en says "section") 5. What/where exactly? On locators (comments placed with Bawl), the whole signature is highlighted. On other comments, only the timestamp is highlighted as their signatures can't be isolated. Markings should disappear on click, when you scroll them into view if "Mark comments as read when you scroll them into view" is enabled and when they are are scrolled into view by the button that scrolls to the next unread comment. 6. I think I'll just remove that feature.. It was a bit broken anyway because it couldn't select the whole comment for comments with multiple paragraphs. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 20:44, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
For how long does a comment stay highlighted with Bawl if that box is ticked? I tried it out here with the link you provided and it stayed forever on until clicked;
Wanted to try but somehow I couldn't press the bell at all in any sections in those pages. I have no idea why;
That's better. The jumping that issues can be a bit surprising but I believe it's still better;
No, I haven't been clear enough. The problem isn't in terminology, it's in its functionality. That function shouldn't be there at all in those pages and now... suddenly... it isn't anymore?! Did you change anything?
Klein Muçi, 1. With that particular link it would be forever unless you opened it in a new tab or window as Bawl didn't activate on hashchange. It now does. 2. Um.. I guess I broke something.. 4. Um.. yes, absolutely intentionally done on purpose. 5. I see. I don't see an easy fix. Putting the timestamp/signature in its own span? DOM elements are computationally expensive so I try to avoid creating more than needed. Append the span with the reply buttons outside of this? That's going to cause so many bugs. Force the background color of the reply button span? Will be ugly against any custom background color. Wait, that last one should be possible. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 02:04, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
1. Now it works but I really think it should be slowed down. The fading happens before the page completely loads. And it would be good if it was gradual instead of instantly going from highlight to nothing:
2. Tell me when the pieces are back and I can do another test - I want to see that button!!
5. Signature highlighting got a bit better. Remaining problems: In SqWiki there is 1 extra space it always gets highlighted on the left side. In here, the dash gets highlighted (it shouldn't) and the highlighting happens in 2 parts where in the second part the icons get accidently highlighted after a short pause before both parts fading. I'm sure you must have noticed that effect. - Klein Muçi (talk) 02:48, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, 1. Better? 2. Try. 5. I added a "Detect timestamp boundaries exactly" option. Disabled by default as the improvement is minor and it likely increases the loading time a bit (especially on pages with many hundreds of comments) as DOM manipulation is expensive. I'm not sure about the 2 part highlighting you speak of, I didn't notice. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:43, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz: 1. Way better. I'd just wish the part before the fading started was a tiny bit longer, maybe a fraction of a second. 2. Subscribed to some discussions, not sure what to be on the lookout for though. When am I supposed to exactly see that button? Do I need to continuously refresh the page or something? 3. The new options fixes most timestamps but the problems that I mentioned here, especially with your timestamp, persist. Your signature for me always gets highlighted together with the dash and the space in-between, stays like that for, let's say, a second, and then the icons on the right side of it get highlighted and after that the whole highlighting fades. Maybe it happens only on Brawl comments. I'm typing this comment from Brawl so maybe you'll have the chance to see it in action in my signature. — Klein Muçi (talk) 23:23, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, go to WP:Teahouse and check the signatures there. The timestamps all appear doubled to me. The effect where icons get highlighted after a short pause also happens there in almost all signatures. If you can't see it, I'll post a screenshot. — Klein Muçi (talk) 11:00, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
I finally saw what Button to scroll to the next unread comment on a page in sections you subscribed to do does. It appears below the other similar button. I believe a bit of thinking should be put in regard to those 2 buttons and their interface as they have a bit of a not-so-elegant "outdated" look which doesn't blend in well with the rest of the page elements and they may be confusing when both activated. — Klein Muçi (talk) 14:30, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, The timestamps all appear doubled to me. Not to me. Must be some particular combination of settings, but as I don't know what you mean by "doubled" I can't effectively investigate because I don't know what I'm looking for. "outdated" look which doesn't blend in well with the rest of the page elements and they may be confusing when both activated Open to suggestions/mock-ups. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 15:31, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
It's hard to think about the buttons interface or to showcase the highlighting effect that occurs with the icons beside the timestamp (bug) because they disappear automatically. If I had a still image of them, I could be more helpful. I guess I'll go to a page and take a screenshot when I can and use that for studying. - Klein Muçi (talk) 21:44, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
┌──────────────────────────────┘ Some general suggestions about the side-buttons I was able to think of while looking at a screenshot of them: They work in a top-to-bottom way so maybe instead of the square, we can use a down pointing arrow shape of some sort. (Maybe check the floating buttons on the right bottom corner on WP:Teahouse for inspiration.) The color maybe can be the usual OO.ui.ButtonWidget gray one, similar to what the floating ToC also gets. This can ensure better blend in. These details don't address the confusion that issues when both buttons are active and maybe their positioning could also use some thinking but maybe after doing some small changes we can get better ideas. If you choose to go on with those changes. — Klein Muçi (talk) 22:37, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, instead of the square, we can use a down pointing arrow shape of some sort If the user scrolls or arrived at an anchored link the next comment may be above their current scroll position. The color maybe can be the usual OO.ui.ButtonWidget gray one, similar to what the floating ToC also gets. This can ensure better blend in. They currently match the signature/timestamp highlight color. Not quite sure what the best solution is yet. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 05:32, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, yes, I thought about this: If the user scrolls or arrived at an anchored link the next comment may be above their current scroll position. But still, the idea is that it goes from the newest comment in the top of the page to the newest comment in the bottom of the page, absolutely speaking. But anyway... — Klein Muçi (talk) 10:37, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, just feels like arrows could be confused with the kind of buttons at WP:Teahouse as well. IIRC it's a circular arrow in CD, but it's not common functionality so there's no standard symbol for this. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 13:06, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, what if we utilized some kind of 3D arrows with shadows that curved on the sidebar somehow similar to this? The way I'm imagining this is more or less like a silver, metallic piano pedal, extending from the sidebar and maybe with its function written on top of it, preferably animated when clicked to move like a piano pedal would do when pushed (XD). There would be 2 of these. Would any part of that be achievable? I have totally NO experience with this aspect of work though so I may as well be asking for impossible things. — Klein Muçi (talk) 14:40, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
The bracket always gets highlighted and then the three icons on the side get highlighted after a very short pause and then the whole highlighting fades. - Klein Muçi (talk) 15:52, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, 3D arrows with shadows that curved on the sidebar Might look nice but would be different for every skin (Vector, Vector-2022, Monobook, Timeless, Modern, Minerva) and impossible in some. Too complicated. preferably animated The horror.. The bracket always gets highlighted and then the three icons on the side get highlighted after a very short pause and then the whole highlighting fades. I just don't know. I don't see the problem or I'm blind to it. Try playing around with the CSS, let me know if you find something. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 02:02, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz, open my talk page in SqWiki, go to "Pyetje nga Paulina251 nëpërmjet panelit të ndihmës (23 gusht 2022 01:12)", inspect the first signature. You'll find this among other things:
<span title="23 gusht 2022 01:12 (CEST)" class="LegacyCmt">) 10 ditë më parë (Aug 23, 2022, 01:12)
Before the number 10 there is a bracket which "shouldn't" be there. "That's" what causes the highlighting problem for us. Maybe this helps you somehow... :/
As for why the icons get highlighted as well... I've yet to understand. But I know that it doesn't happen when the green glow option is activated. Signatures get highlighted correctly as they should when that option is on. Maybe whatever you've done for it you can replicate it in here as well? - Klein Muçi (talk) 21:53, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I was the one to ask for longer highlighting time but I'd say it should be 1-2 seconds shorter than it currently is. Other than that, no. This is something you can decide on your own though so you can archive this part. — Klein Muçi (talk) 00:19, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
I think the stats (Newest/Comments/Participants) should be rendered by default below the title. This would provide uniformity in cases where they roll under the title anyway because of the said title being too long (actual rolling would be way more rare because of all the extra space that would be gained for them) and it would greatly minimize visual clutter;
Maybe the space between the 4 text formatting and link inserting icons is not equal (or maybe that's an optical illusion because of the italic symbol being curved) - Same thing for the other 4 icons;
It looks like the space between the heart, the link and the speech bubble is not equal but I can't really tell because of the highlighting that issues when I try to measure with my cursor;
Klein Muçi, 1. They are no longer on the same line. 2. I made changes to this, still issues? 3. I made changes to this, still issues? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 05:04, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I'm not sure only about the 4 icons on the right (magnifier, warning sign...). They look coupled in groups of 2. Maybe they can be more spacious and take the same space as the buttons when we have them on the "wrong side like DT"? — Klein Muçi (talk) 08:13, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, being honest, I don't see any change. If you open them here, for example, where no warning sign exists, the cog looks coupled with the arrows and the magnifier glass stands alone. In other pages, it looks coupled with the warning triangle. — Klein Muçi (talk) 21:16, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
As mentioned above, the highlighting that occurs in different icons doesn't look like it has the same proportions universally - Maybe that's fine;
When section link icon is clicked, maybe the 3 copy-copy-cancel buttons can be arranged in a more OCD-friendly way area/color wise (I believe the color should be "fixed" nonetheless as that - and the similar comment link cancel one - is the only cancel button blue);
When section link icon is clicked the remaining 3 icons (bubble, pencil, bell) get pushed "below" the section's title, (sometimes "a fourth" link icon which does nothing gets rendered together with them). They should stay beside the section's title;
Klein Muçi, 1. No more icon highlighting. 2. Removed flags from cancel button. 3. Odd that the link icon sometimes doesn't go away.. Anyway, I changed the position. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 06:10, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, the text on the "new" buttons (copy-copy-cancel) looks enormous now. And yes, the position of the 3 icons is fixed now but strangely enough most of the time I do get the link icon again there when pressed. Maybe that's not a problem though. — Klein Muçi (talk) 08:17, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, should be smaller now as the form is now attached to a different element. I made it so the link icon never disappears but instead toggles the form. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 20:10, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
The link icons and the collapse arrows are the only not blue symbols on the normal mode - They should be blue;
The bell icon in grayscale mode is way darker than everything else. The link icons are lighter. They should all be the same color, as they should be in the blue/normal mode;
Most of the 8 icons below look rather "inferior" and bland when compared with the other icons;
Klein Muçi, 1. I think the link icon might be harder to recognize as a link icon in blue. Also, having up to four blue icons in a row doesn't seem like great usability. The collapse arrows are supposed to blend in with the section headers so they shouldn't be blue. 2. IIRC I made changes to that (but didn't get around to responding here earlier), can you check again? 3. Which 8? (I'm guessing link, heart, speech bubble, edit marker, magnifying glass, settings gear, bell.. arrow? or clock..) And compared with what "other icons"? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 06:16, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, the bell is fine now. The only "problem" currently is the link icon which has the reverse problem that the bell had: It's far too lighter compared with the other 3 icons. Your guess is correct. The comparison is done with the pencil/heart/bubble/bell/link and their variations. Maybe your eyes are blind to it as the creator but for me it seems like you have these cute icons above like a heart or a small pencil and then you have the boring stuff below, office-like, like just a letter B or I or some arrows... It's a very minor thing though. — Klein Muçi (talk) 08:26, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, It's far too lighter compared with the other 3 icons. That's an optical illusion because it's thinner, but it's darker now. It's a very minor thing though. I don't have a problem with it. I just want to get this project finished. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 18:57, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz: That's an optical illusion because it's thinner, but it's darker now. Apparently you're right. It's undistinguishable with the other 3 icons now. Maybe if made even darker when appearing together with the other formatting icons below would make it undistinguishable even there? — Klein Muçi (talk) 00:12, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, 1. I looked into it in the past and I just looked into it again. It can't be done. One way or another it would cause problems. If push comes to shove I'll remove the bottom notice altogether, I don't want to waste another second on this. Life is too short. 2. Done 3. Big? You mean darker? By design, it lives in negative margins. This means it doesn't change the length of the page, so it doesn't cause the page to jump. Sometimes it touches something, it's the lesser evil to me. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 07:50, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I'm actually surprised by how good the wikilink conversion is with Bawl. I was playing around with it and I didn't think it would allow for pipe-renaming but it did! There is one thing that it doesn't allow currently though that I think it should: Brackets.
Sometimes we want to enter a link enclosed in brackets (link) for lexicographical reasons. If you do that currently it stops the conversion.
Also the pipe-rename process is not really clear as the link on the text form remains as a URL, only the live preview (for those that have activated it) shows the change happening. I believe the whole process, as it currently is, is only accessible by those who know what they're doing and it feels more as an Easter egg. Not sure what can be done about that though. I thought about having the conversion happen in the text form itself (if that is possible) but then I thought that maybe that could be too aggressive as there may be occasions when you want the URL instead of the wikilink so I'm not sure. — Klein Muçi (talk) 21:29, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, Sometimes we want to enter a link enclosed in brackets (link) for lexicographical reasons. If you do that currently it stops the conversion. Brackets are avoided on purpose. If you want to post, for example, a link to the mobile domain for demonstration purposes you can avoid it being rewritten by enclosing it in brackets. If you need brackets for lexicographical reasons you should use [ and ] or a template that inserts those. There's little point anyway, square brackets are disallowed in page titles. (I suppose they could happen in anchors, but really?) Also, it's unclear what exactly you're trying to do. Also the pipe-rename process is not really clear as the link on the text form remains as a URL, only the live preview (for those that have activated it) shows the change happening. That's why there's a preview button. I believe the whole process, as it currently is, is only accessible by those who know what they're doing Quite the opposite. One of the targets of this feature are newbies and lazy people who carelessly post external URLs. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 05:28, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz: Also, it's unclear what exactly you're trying to do. Just trying to post links as examples of what I'm talking about, I do that often. (When I can't do that, I use screenshots.) For example, when you do X, you get Y (link). As for the pipe rename... How exactly would people know that entering a pipe beside a URL would serve to rename it? Why would they try that in the first place I mean. URLs don't get renamed with a pipe, they get renamed with a space. That's a hybrid behavior that's only possible here because of the background conversion Bawl offers and I haven't seen it used anywhere else. I only found out about it because I'm continuously trying to make Bawl break purposely to know its limits. — Klein Muçi (talk) 07:32, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, As for the pipe rename... How exactly would people know that entering a pipe beside a URL would serve to rename it? Wtf, I had no idea what you were talking about. When you enter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:Sandbox|test it rewrites to test. This is not a feature, I didn't realize this was possible. It's probably not naming the link, it's just accepting the pipe as part of the title. I could fix that, but should I? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 17:58, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, hah! I think you should accentuate it somehow. That feature is needed. But maybe we can make it literally name the link instead of appending the pipe and make it do that in a more expected way. Unable to think of a practical way to achieve that though. — Klein Muçi (talk) 23:07, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, But maybe we can make it literally name the link instead of appending the pipe and make it do that in a more expected way. There's no "appending the pipe", you just linked an article that happens to have a pipe in its title. Bawl didn't interpret it, MediaWiki did. Unable to think of a practical way to achieve that though. Neither can I. How about leaving the pipe thing in as a happy accident and archive this? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 06:58, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I found this issue: This page, ninja mode=on, DT=active, click on 1 of 3 top blue buttons. You get live preview on and on it you get a subscribe button leaking from DT which does nothing. — Klein Muçi (talk) 12:26, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, ah, it was in the preview, now I see. That's not really "leaking in", more of a question of "why does the API render DT links in previews at all and why doesn't the API provide an option to disable them?", fixed anyway. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 13:39, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
Report on visual issues 6
The pencil icon looks rather odd when set up in the header where there is only text, even the new section icon from Bawl is just a plus sign;
Maybe the filter box in the settings should be a bit lower too to separate it from the settings' window outline;
Maybe the stats links can use some standardization. Currently the participants together with the number acts as a link while "newest" has a different behavior. Also it would look really nice if comments could use a link as well, a "problem" I've had even with DT, but, I'm not sure where it could link to.
Klein Muçi, 1. Space in the header toolbar is VERY limited. The + would be there anyway to launch the 2010 wikitext editor or DT. For full page edit, I won't remove the regular edit button so the full page edit button is an extra button, so it has to be as short as possible. Also, icon is multilingual. 2. Will be done in next update. 3. I see nothing actionable here. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 08:01, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I found this issue: The past summaries' dropdown menu never expires and in doing so it forever blocks the icons below. The only way to remove it currently is by using Esc. — Klein Muçi (talk) 21:08, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, that's OOUI/browser behavior. Your browser stores the past summaries, not Bawl. A click or arrow left/arrow right also appears to close it. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 17:13, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, so there's no way to make it auto-fade after a certain time without any kind of interaction? Consider the following workflow: You click on the summary and want to include a link in it. You then want to click on the link icon. You can't. Never. You can click out of it but that removes the cursor and you can't insert the link anymore. The only hope are keyboard shortcuts. — Klein Muçi (talk) 23:21, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, it couldn't fade as it's not affected by CSS. Even the dark mode gadget has no effect on it. Maybe it could be closed, but even if that's possible, should it? It doesn't auto-close in the 2010 wikitext editor. In practice: you click the summary and no dropdown appears at all. You can click the link button. If you entered any text, just enter more until no more matching past summaries exist, or press left/right, or click the field. In the 2010 wikitext editor the past summaries can obscure the "Publish changes" button but I doubt anyone has ever reported that as an issue. In addition: accessibility. People have all kinds of handicaps. Messing with default browser behavior should not be done lightly. https://www.w3schools.com/tags/att_input_autocomplete.asp shows no options. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 00:28, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, the link form doesn't know how to differentiate between brackets typed in different text forms. Its behavior is still too aggressive. If you type 1 or 2 brackets in the body form, the first one to be typed in the summary/subject form will trigger the activation of the link form. Its activation should be triggered by 2 brackets per form, not 2 brackets in total. Also, if you type them very slowly you should be able to escape the link form activation, in a similar way how clicking something slowly doesn't count as a doubleclick. Currently you can type them with 1 hour of resting in-between and the link form will still get activated. — Klein Muçi (talk) 23:59, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, the link form doesn't know how to differentiate between brackets typed in different text forms Done Also, if you type them very slowly you should be able to escape the link form activation, Done— Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 17:57, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, you messed up! (possibly) Can you open a reply form to such a comment and trigger the bug reporter? I think I did what you asked for here.
Replylinkparams:
{"int":1276,"type":"comment","subtype":"legacy","id":"Klein Muçi:29 gusht 2022 01:15 (CEST):1276_1","pageTitleInt":1264,"origReplyTo":"Klein Muçi","origTimestamp":"29 gusht 2022 01:15 (CEST)","origTimestampTextNode":") 29 gusht 2022 01:15 (CEST)","seq":1,"pageTitle":"Përdoruesi diskutim:Klein Muçi","sectionTitle":"Test","sectionseq":0}
Klein Muçi, Done, finally found it. This only happened on your own talk page. Upon detecting of the .mw-selflink in your signature the username as found in mw.config.get('wgRelevantUserName') was returned, but spaces weren't replaced with underscores in this case. Bawl generally assumes detected usernames to use underscores. As "Klein Muçi" is not the same as "Klein_Muçi" you got a thank link. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 16:36, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
{"int":133,"type":"comment","subtype":"legacy","id":"Qwerfjkl:18:45 18 August 2022 (UTC):133","pageTitleInt":105,"origReplyTo":"Qwerfjkl","origTimestamp":"18:45 18 August 2022 (UTC)","origTimestampTextNode":" 18:45, 18 August 2022 (UTC)","seq":0,"pageTitle":"Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 August 18","sectionTitle":"Category:Bengali-language newspapers by country","sectionseq":0}
Qwerfjkl, Done, I recently restricted the length of signatures to be searched and your signature exceeded the limit I had set. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 17:35, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
You messed up! (I AM ERROR)
Alexis Jazz, you messed up! I couldn't post my comment no matter how much I retried. The "Send" button just stays forever gray and pulsating.
Replylinkparams:
{"int":2342,"type":"comment","subtype":"legacy","id":"Rummskartoffel:16:23, 26 August 2022 (UTC):2342","pageTitleInt":2238,"origReplyTo":"Rummskartoffel","origTimestamp":"16:23, 26 August 2022 (UTC)","origTimestampTextNode":"16:23, 26 August 2022 (UTC)","seq":0,"pageTitle":"Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)","sectionTitle":"Global login","sectionseq":0}
Alexis Jazz, you messed up! (possibly) I couldn't post my comment. Tried twice.
Replylinkparams:
{"int":2610,"type":"comment","subtype":"locator","id":"Alexis_Jazz:1661735265257:User_talkFTTCLNAlexis_Jazz","pageTitle":"User_talk:Alexis_Jazz","pageTitleInt":1563,"origReplyTo":"Alexis_Jazz","origTimestamp":1661735265257,"origTimestampTextNode":1661735265257,"seq":0,"sectionTitle":"Reports about Bawl","sectionseq":0}
Klein Muçi, Done, regression caused by fixes to insertion of links to comments in the same section. The whole section/page text was searched for such links to determine if anchors needed adding, but after that it only searched the comment you were about to post for such links. And if there weren't any there a JS error would be the result, halting the script. The whole section/page is no longer searched. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 16:44, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
Bug - 2010 editor
On 2010 editor, if syntax highlighting is on, the mention and link characters don't trigger the form openings. Quote-dragging doesn't work either.
The link and signature icons on it have their own workflows as well, not related to Bawl, but maybe that's not a bad thing.
The mention character doesn't trigger the mention form if used on a section's title form. I believe that's not a bad thing either. — Klein Muçi (talk) 20:52, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, On 2010 editor, if syntax highlighting is on, the mention and link characters don't trigger the form openings. Quote-dragging doesn't work either. Various things don't work properly when using mw:Extension:CodeMirror or mw:Extension:CodeEditor. A handful of features may also malfunction on VisualLight, but at least VisualLight is under my control so I can do slightly more about it. It's problematic and it's hard to fix. These editors weren't designed to be manipulated or read by a third party. To the degree Bawl works with them at all, it does so by quickly disabling it, doing its thing on the source field and re-enabling it. And even that simple act of enabling/disabling it is achieved in the ugliest way possible: by performing a click() on the button that toggles the editor. I have zero clue how to toggle it otherwise. I tried, I failed. Quote-dragging/entering brackets requires detecting those events on completely different element types. I made peace with the fact this will never work perfectly. I cried enough tears today. The link and signature icons on it have their own workflows as well, not related to Bawl, but maybe that's not a bad thing. I won't meddle with the 2010 wikitext editor UI. Anyone who activates it is supposed to know what they're doing. The mention character doesn't trigger the mention form if used on a section's title form. I believe that's not a bad thing either. That's by design. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 18:16, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I see. I didn't know Bawl behaved so unharmoniously with those editors. I haven't had the chance to give VisualLight much testing time as I was thinking to first get the native ones on the right path and then try out the new one. But if what lies ahead is only dismay and disappointment... Can we ever hope to have any kind of syntax highlighting in VL? — Klein Muçi (talk) 23:15, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
I won't meddle with the 2010 wikitext editor UI. I do understand this. However I just noticed something which I think you should know. If you activate the 2010 wikitext editor, you'll notice a strange shadow on its outline at the top right. When you activate the said editor by itself there's nothing there and I'm not sure if it was always there on activating it on Bawl. — Klein Muçi (talk) 23:41, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, syntax highlighting in VL? That's an oxymoron right there. you'll notice a strange shadow on its outline at the top right. I don't see anything? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 00:38, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, I'm confused: Why is that an oxymoron? Because VisualLight is a visual editor (albeit a very basic one), so syntax highlighting makes no sense. Check the photo. I see, easy to miss. Unfortunately I can't reproduce it. If you could right click and inspect the element you might be able to find the responsible element. But it could also be a browser rendering error or graphics driver glitch. 1. Is the shadow always there, on every page, every form, same place? 2. If you resize the window, does the shadow move or is its position fixed? 3. Can you find the responsible element? 4. If you scroll the shadow out of view and then scroll back, is it still there? 5. If you zoom in, is it still there? 6. Does the same shadow occur when using the 2010 wikitext editor with CodeMIrror, outside of Bawl? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 13:56, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
Hmm... Why do I never get VL when switching between editors in talkspace? I had to tick the "skip-boxes" for the 2 other editors in order to force it out. I tried it but it behaves strangely, for my eyes, as a visual editor. I mean, comparing it with VE (VisualEditor), I see no options to, for example, add templates. I still have to work with code with it. In what sense is it "visual"? Maybe I'm misunderstanding its use?
As for the shadow... Check the photo. I played a bit with page elements and if you disable the background color in wikiEditor-ui-toolbar you see that it is actually part of something else. Maybe you can help me make more sense of it? - Klein Muçi (talk) 15:57, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
Hah! Finally understood what's going on. It's the speech bubble in the background. Both it and the pencil have the tendency of moving around when switching editors, going up and down. I have reported that as an issue somewhere else. - Klein Muçi (talk) 15:59, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, I mean, comparing it with VE That would be quite the comparison! VE has been developed over the course of roughly a decade by a team of paid WMF developers and it's still in beta, it takes forever to load, guzzles crazy bandwidth and ext.visualEditor.core is ~900K which doesn't include any language data, icons or additional required libraries. Bawl sits at ~540K currently which includes English language data, icons, Memoria, Pako decompression library, VisualLight and so much more. And there's potential to shrink it further. Bawl was developed by a single unpaid volunteer over the course of less than a year. You didn't really expect VisualLight to be a match for VE? VE is a cruise ship, VisualLight is a jet ski. A jet ski will run circles around a cruise ship, but it ain't gonna cross the Pacific. VisualLight only handles links, bold, italic and strikethrough. The basic stuff for comments. A few more bits may be added later, but templates seem like a stretch. (but never say never)Finally understood what's going on. It's the speech bubble in the background. Ah, that explains why I didn't see it, must have been just out of view. CodeMirror has a forced white background that covers Bawl's background, backgrounds should work with CodeMirror now. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 05:27, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I understand now. I only compared it to understand better how visual editing works in general, as a concept and you delivered nicely on that subject. ...backgrounds should work with CodeMirror now. They do but oh the horror... VL has no background at all and CodeMirror's one behaves like a gas and extends from inside the text form to the toolbar above. — Klein Muçi (talk) 07:28, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
┌───────────────────────────┘ Klein Muçi, colors tend to clash with existing border colors of the text input. (which vary depending on the editor you use) I also tried dashed and dotted borders, but this seemed the least intrusive. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 07:18, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
Background bubble and pencil images behave badly when switching editors;
Clicking the link insertion icon doesn't close the link insertion form (compare with what happens with the magnifying glass icon or the cog)
When you open an "extra form", like the link insertion form, the regex one the settings one or all of them together maybe the escape button should act to close them in the reverse order that they were opened and then ultimately close the editing form. If text is typed on the link/regex/move/filter form, Esc should act as a clear button first before working on the forms. Link insertion form already has that function where Esc closes it individually;
Klein Muçi, 1. No more background icons. 2. Done 3. They are currently closed in a reasonably sensible fixed order. Reverse order, I don't know. Fact is, even if that would be desirable, I want to be done with this project. I'm vaguely tempted to throw it all away so I can focus on something else, but I've worked on this for ~9 months now so that seems rather wasteful. But I need this to be over. When this leaves beta, I'm going to need a wikibreak I think. If text is typed on the link/regex/move/filter form, Esc should act as a clear button first before working on the forms. No, I don't believe it should. That's not the convention. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 21:23, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz: They are currently closed in a reasonably sensible fixed order. If that happens, it's okay. What worried me was that 1 press of Esc closed everything. That behavior looked too aggressive and I just wanted to slow it down. As for the wikibreak part, I understand. I've only been doing the testing part and I think I'll give myself some days off when this is over. — Klein Muçi (talk) 21:40, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Final report (maybe) 1
No matter how much I try, my cellphone crashes when using Bawl on my talkpage on the mobile version - Using Bawl on the mobile version on PC is fine though and so is using Bawl on the desktop version on mobile;
Maybe we can consider the idea of adding a delete section/comment functionality/button? I find it a bit risky but just yesterday I saw one of our admin talk pages get vandalized (random mumbo-jumbo new section added) and I thought that maybe Bawl could help with it given that it's not a rare phenomenon;
When sections are reversed, ToC autohides. Should it?
Klein Muçi, 1. "crashes" is not a useful description. I haven't gotten around to much mobile testing yet. 2. Custom inserts can now append to the edit summary in addition to everything they already did. 3. I'd say yes, the point of section reversal is largely to avoid scrolling. It's why WP:TEA has those odd top/bottom arrows. ToC just gets in the way of that. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:13, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Lately it doesn't crash anymore. I used that term because it literally made it impossible to use the phone for wikiwork. As soon as I would open a wikipage, it would immediately close in seconds. Now that it is better, I may start testing it a bit there too.
I'm a bit confused here. Maybe you have misunderstood me? What I meant in my request was to have a button or a similar mechanism, the press of which would delete a comment or a section. Ironically I was just about to ask for templated answers in summaries because I noticed I tend to edit the same comment multiple times to do semantical fixes or correct typos. I was going to ask either for templated answers or for having a small button, close to the one that serves to mark edits as small, the click of which would "mark" the edit as a correction of some sort in the edit summary. I believe this solution is better because it allows for solutions in other kinds of situations too. This does beg the question if the same functionality should be extended to the subject form too or not. In the past we've done so but I'm not sure if there would be a case for templated titles. All that said though, my request was for a delete button, more or less.
An update of the setting description mentioning this would be nice then.
Klein Muçi, 2. This allows creating a custom insert like User:Alexis Jazz/Bawl/Custom inserts and replacements#Page blanking. (now with summary) This would allow you to delete a section by editing the whole section. To remove an individual comment you should use rollback/undo/edit by hand/use existing anti-vandalism tools. Vandalism is unpredictable. Technically the thank/permalink feature could be extended for this, but I'm not sure that's a good idea. For example, vandals often don't sign, so SineBot prevents undo from working. Multiline comments can't be detected by Bawl and even if they could, vandals may add a comment while corrupting someone else's comment in the same edit. It's just complicated. 3. Made it optional. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:13, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz: 2. Yes but we already had that option, didn't we? How does the new summary function help? (I'm very grateful for it, I'm just asking to understand better.) As for deletion... I was thinking this also in a more broad way. Given that you can already create and edit, it's only a matter of time until someone asks "to complete the cycle" and requests deletion capabilities. But maybe I'm wrong and that day never comes so... You decide. — Klein Muçi (talk) 21:26, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, you can now blank a section and put "vandals!" in the edit summary with one button. So the workflow has changed from "open form, enter vandals! in summary, click blank button" to "open form, click blank button". Given that you can already create and edit, it's only a matter of time until someone asks "to complete the cycle" and requests deletion capabilities. For single line comments this can now be done by editing and blanking them (as you need to edit for this it's only available for your own comments by default), for multiline comments I refer back to what I said above: use existing tools. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 08:38, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis, may we have wikicoded links in addition to URLs when tapping the link icon to copy a section or comment link? I know your solution for this is to regex it out in Bawl, but sometimes we need the wikicode for some other input (and it's a pain to decode the hex uri). — Guarapiranga☎05:30, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
Guarapiranga, for what other input? I use Bawl interchangeably with WikiPlus and WM's own editors.
User:Alexis Jazz/Bawl#Use features from Bawl outside Bawl? is supposed to handle this. I couldn't make heads and tails of this. I see the css options, but haven't quite deciphered them either. — Guarapiranga☎01:09, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, what do you mean new? Rewriting diff links was already part of Bawl when you started using it, I think. Or am I missing something? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:21, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, not really. Seems like it might be useful though. I aim to rewrite URLs you could reasonably come across in MediaWiki. The regular expressions for this are fairly complicated, I don't aim to rewrite every technically valid URL. If you're going to type in links manually you might as well make it wikilink while you're at it, no? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 02:38, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, Fandom was quite low on the priority list as I was hoping to get things working here first. I've just made some changes so Bawl may load on Fandom and rewrite local URLs. I haven't done any thorough testing of this, though. (and Fandom has thousands of wikis, I just tested one) — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 01:21, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
Yeah, not sure, Alexis Jazz. Tbh, I stopped using Bawl a while ago, partly bc of issues such as this, but mostly bc of your attitude, which made it tiresome working through Bawl's issues with you. Nowadays, I mostly only turn it on to get comment links (when User:Evad37/TimestampDiffs doesn't work). — Guarapiranga☎04:52, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
Guarapiranga, my attitude? Jesus fucking christ. I went over the last requests you made. They were mostly resolved and in other cases there wasn't enough information. Are you getting even 5% of the responsiveness from the WMF if you ask them to improve DT? Days like this, I wonder why I bother at all. No matter how hard you try, people will find fault. Everything is doomed to fail no matter what you do. I'm nearly working myself into a burnout over this. Maybe I will get a burnout. It's how I ended up with a burnout last time. It's never enough. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:54, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
Guarapiranga, I was reading through all of the requests in this page because I've opened A LOT of them and I comb through them periodically to see if I've missed any comments I should have replied to. Out of curiosity I started reading requests opened by other people as well and I was surprised by this. You do mention Alexis' implied bad attitude in it. I checked all the interactions above currently in this page between you and him and neither of them showed any kind of discontent by either you or him. Unless something else has happened somewhere else, this looked really strange to the eyes of an outsider. It looked particularly surprising to me as so far he's yet to refuse a single request from the extra-extra long list I've given to him; They've either been accepted, refused as technically impossible or preserved for when Bawl leaves the beta state. And the work has been going on uninterrupted for weeks now... — Klein Muçi (talk) 11:43, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
Final report (maybe) 2
ARCHIVE CHECKBOX DEMONSTRATION
Klein Muçi, haven't slept through the night for weeks. Not because of this. And remember, there IS a deadline. It may have already passed without me knowing. "Only add reply link for the first comment of each section" has been scrapped. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 02:53, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
What does Add activity information only to title attribute of sections do?
What does Only add reply link for the first comment of each section do?
What happens if both Show abbreviated weekday (Tue) and Show full weekday (Tuesday) are activated? Isn't that paradoxical again?
Klein Muçi, 1. What it says. Try it out. 2. What it says. 3. Currently you'd get the abbreviated weekday, but it makes more sense to get the full weekday in that scenario so I'll swap that around. The way I set things up, checkboxes are cheap. (cheaper than radio buttons and dropdown menus) — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:30, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I just did but I still don't understand. :/ Nothing appears to change. As for the checkboxes, I believe they should act the same as the checkboxes for the editors work, if one is active it forces the other one to not be ticked. — Klein Muçi (talk) 21:21, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, hover over a title. they should act the same as the checkboxes for the editors work More lines of code for a choice that makes no sense anyway and doesn't result in anything bad when chosen. Some day someone might overhaul the settings and introduce radio buttons. I doubt it'll be me. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 21:45, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, ah! I understand the first one now. I tried activating the second but I keep getting reply links everywhere. I'm not really sure what must be changing. You know it yourself better. But maybe you should be getting that rest now instead of "at the end" and see what happens later. Just 24-48 hours without dealing with this and you'll forget about it. 2-3 days later you'll most likely be refreshed. Remember WP:NODEADLINE. — Klein Muçi (talk) 22:05, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Section moving and archiving
Can the moving functionality be utilized to move to specific sections in specific pages for example using something like: Wikipedia:ExampleName#SpecificSection or any kind of more complex anchor?
If that is possible, can we use that functionality for quick archiving by providing a certain URL in the settings as our archive page and have a button that quickly archives a section in that page with a predefined summary? - Klein Muçi (talk) 15:37, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
If working fast enough the The page has been changed since you loaded it. The following lines were added or changed: popup blocks the move url textbox. - Klein Muçi (talk) 15:52, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
Also, it's not pretty intuitive that you need to press the blue "Send" button above to be able to perform the move because many times the said button is already out of focus when you're performing the move (given that the URL field is pretty low when compared with it). What it is intuitive, for users who have activated it, is pressing the red Dry Run button, which stands aside and is near to action you're performing. A kind of mechanism whatsoever should be used to redirect the attention to the blue "Send" button above when you're ready to move the section. - Klein Muçi (talk) 16:38, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, Can the moving functionality be utilized to move to specific sections in specific pages for example using something like: Wikipedia:ExampleName#SpecificSection or any kind of more complex anchor? This will be problematic. Won't work for transcluded sections, confusing when multiple identically named sections exist. It's a neat idea, but currently Bawl utilizes appendtext for this which is much simpler. If that is possible, can we use that functionality for quick archiving by providing a certain URL in the settings as our archive page and have a button that quickly archives a section in that page with a predefined summary? Archive page title structure is not standardized and varies from page to page and project to project. With date-based archives it could work, but with numbered archives? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 13:12, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
If we were to go the archiving way we'd need to set up more options than just the archive URL (similar to what MajavahBot needs to complete its archiving duties), that was just a starting point. But if we'd have problems since the start, with the proposed moving part, maybe we should stop here. - Klein Muçi (talk) 18:16, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, content moving is one of those things I added as a nice extra. It's basic moving functionality, it'll suffice in many cases to replace cut-and-paste moves when a question was posted on the wrong noticeboard and it even works as a makeshift archiver script, but if you need something significantly more advanced you should install a script (or module for Bawl) that's dedicated to moving. This was always the goal of Bawl: Jack of all trades, master of none, but oftentimes better than master of one. If the functionality can be improved without adding a ton of complexity that's okay, but moving to some specific place within a page is complicated. What it is intuitive, for users who have activated it, is pressing the red Dry Run button I don't think it really is. It's red, not enabled by default (and most users have no reason to enable it) and it says "dry run", nothing to indicate it could move. A kind of mechanism whatsoever should be used to redirect the attention to the blue "Send" button above when you're ready to move the section. I'm all ears. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 14:11, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, maybe the blue button starts pulsating? Maybe it gets autofocused and highlighted after you've finished choosing the title for the move? Maybe a small arrow appears beside the move field pulsating and pointing to the blue button? — Klein Muçi (talk) 15:03, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, pulsating will be confusing, that's what it does while waiting for the server. Nobody knows when you've finished choosing a title. Pulsating arrow will be confusing too. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 08:05, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz: Nobody knows when you've finished choosing a title. The system can guess. If you've typed something and then stopped for more than 4 seconds, it can assume that you've finished choosing a title. — Klein Muçi (talk) 08:16, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, I foresee artificial stupidity effects. Nothing more annoying than an automated system that guesses wrong. And if it does nothing for 4 seconds, the user will have no idea what triggered it. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:31, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, 1. I assume you're referring to the overlay thing. Settings, interface, "Open form on overlay when screen width is less than this number of pixels". Drop it as low as you want. Likewise, it can be increased to Over 9000 to always get the overlay. 2. You mean like graying them out? There's no feature for that right now. Do you mean just the timestamp/signature or the whole comment? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:54, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
Thanks, that works, although the red outline when entering 0.is vaguely ominous. This also 'fixed' the icon disappearing issue.
I seem to recall a green line to the right of the whole comment.
Qwerfjkl, as Klein Muçi said, the green line was scrapped. The green line didn't "delineate" though. (struck, got the wrong definition I think) Do you have any suggestion, visually, for how to mark new comments after they've been seen? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 17:22, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, there are several ways to make the highlighting fade. When scrolling it into view (opt-in), when clicking it (which you control) and when it's scrolled into view by the "button to scroll to the next unread comment". Which method are you using? I assume the button? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 22:17, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, highlight removal when scrolling into view can be disabled in the settings, the button acts different now. Also added a "Leave a green glow when you scroll to comments with a button that scrolls to a new comment" option. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 15:19, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
Report on visual issues 4
Comment highlighting wrongly engulfs settings below it - Maybe instead of full lines, it should try to highlight only the messages, if that's possible;
Comment highlighting acts funny when manual numbered pseudolists (numbered lists not using the hashtags) and images are included;
The popup that fires up when trying to esc-cancel a form which has been worked with should have the OK button highlighted in red on hover;
Klein Muçi, 1. Technically maybe, realistically not really AFAIK due to how the HTML is structured. Maybe there is a way, perhaps by calculating background size based on the position of the signature or something. Not sure right now. 2. Yeah, not sure that's fully fixable either, probably depends on 1. Highlighting currently works by UN-highlighting the other comments in the same element. 3. I already dislike the on-hover red cancel of the reply form. I don't want to deviate from OOUI further. Hover isn't accessible anyway. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 06:30, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I believe my suggestion isn't a good one because it would behave really strange on images. It does behave a bit strangely now though, many things get engulfed it, it becomes weird when it is paired with the DT native highlight (different colors and sizes if I'm not wrong), some things that should be part of it aren't and it has problems with signatures (even though I believe the last one is a different problem). Maybe once you finish dealing with some of the requests, you can dedicate more time on highlighting in general and find smoother solutions. — Klein Muçi (talk) 21:33, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, background size is now calculated as I described above. Should all behave better now. Anything left here? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 20:31, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, it's way better in regard to wrongly engulfing other elements when highlighting certain elements but I can't make it work for news sections. Maybe it didn't work to begin with. — Klein Muçi (talk) 00:06, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, you can start a new subsection though. As a little Easter egg, starting a new subsection without a title (submit again to ignore the warning) now appends a comment. (@Qwerfjkl might also be interested in this) This will remain an Easter egg as wikitext is unpredictable, in odd cases the result might not be desirable. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:24, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
Final report (maybe) 4
Floating ToC intersects with the helping panel ? button and interacts badly with topicons, which go in front of it instead of behind;
Floating ToC's title and link both act as open/close switches. This is intentional but confusing. Compare it with the uncollapsed ToC when sections are reversed;
Wrap section in closed/archived block does nothing for me. What am I doing wrong?
Klein Muçi, 1. Done 2. You asked for it, now you want it changed back? 3. Only works when commenting, maybe you activated it while editing a full section? The option is no longer visible when not commenting. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:17, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
The intersection with the ? help panel still happens. I doubt it will be a problem but I thought I'd let you know anyway. Maybe without the screenshot my description wasn't clear.
Sort of. I think the blue link is excessive. The ToC name itself is enough for a switch. Whatever you choose though it should be replicated to the ToC when sections are reversed as it currently has the old behavior.
The problem is that I have no idea what am I supposed to expect from it so I don't know exactly what to look for.
Klein Muçi, 1. I have no idea what this help panel is, what it does, or where it comes from. I don't have it. 2. For floating ToC: Done. For reversed collapsed ToC: Not done, standard MediaWiki behavior, Bawl only toggles the hide/show link. 3. User talk:Alexis Jazz/Bawl (Diff 1109473890) — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 07:20, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, 1. Okay I see it. It only covers a little bit (when collapsed) and this is a general conflict with any other script/extension/etc that uses fixed position elements. If you are experienced enough to enable the floating ToC you're probably not using the help panel anymore. So I plan to ignore this unless functionality really breaks. 2. Collapsing and closing are synonyms. You mean the "hide" link is still there when the ToC is uncollapsed? On purpose. 3. Open reply form (speech balloon), magnifying glass, wrap section. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:39, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, only now I finally understood that to make the archiving work you should move the section. I thought that the section got enveloped in archiving tags where it was. Okay, yes. It works as intended I guess. In SqWiki this happened: Përdoruesi:Klein Muçi/sandbox (revision 2474020) Is that normal? The moving mechanism is so non-intuitive for me. :'( All this time I hadn't understood that that function was related to the moving mechanism and even when I did I again forgot how to actually move the page. I instinctively clicked the Dry Run button and then our old conversation came to mind and I was reminded that I need to click the blue button above. :P — Klein Muçi (talk) 15:34, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, I thought that the section got enveloped in archiving tags where it was. It does, you don't have to move it. Moving and wrapping in archiving tags work independent from each other. They can be combined if desired, but don't have to be. Is that normal? I see nothing out of the ordinary. If you want to see the regular archiving template, create {{atops}} / {{abots}} on sqwiki. (see User:Alexis Jazz/Bawl/Mumbo jumbo#Templates Bawl can use) — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 02:22, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, oh, I see now! But it works strangely: You can't use it when editing parts (you removed that lately as you said but I don't remember why) and you can't archive full sections that have subsections in it as far as I understand. Also, I believe the text form should freeze/turn grey if that tick is active to indicate that any text added will get discarded when you're clicking the send button. And the send button should change to "Archive" or something similar, like it does when moving a section, to indicate what action is happening. I also always get a popup asking me "Are you sure?" which I'm not sure "where it is coming from" or better said, if it should be there or not. I have yet to create the said templates at the moment of typing this comment so the behavior can be different with them. — Klein Muçi (talk) 08:40, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, You can't use it when editing parts (you removed that lately as you said but I don't remember why) You mean when editing the full section? That couldn't work. Your comment becomes the closing message (and the summary becomes the status/header), there is no comment when editing a full section. and you can't archive full sections that have subsections in it as far as I understand. The subsections also go into the archive block. I believe the text form should freeze/turn grey if that tick is active to indicate that any text added will get discarded You're mistaken. I also always get a popup asking me "Are you sure?" Nothing better available in the standard messages. (maybe I should search again, there has to be some "empty field" warning somewhere..) I have yet to create the said templates at the moment of typing this comment so the behavior can be different with them. Probably won't change. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 08:55, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz: You mean when editing the full section? Even when editing individual comments. The subsections also go into the archive block. They don't for me. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. You're mistaken. Am I mistaken in my general belief or in the fact that any text added will be get discarded? Because the later is true for me. — Klein Muçi (talk) 09:25, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
┌───────────────────────────┘ Klein Muçi, Even when editing individual comments. Can't archive while editing comments either. You have to add a new one. They don't for me. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. Diff? Am I mistaken in my general belief or in the fact that any text added will be get discarded? Because the later is true for me. Your text doesn't get discarded. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:35, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I am wrong. Text doesn't get discarded and subsections can be included if you try to archive the top level section. I kept trying to archive the bottom one. Blue button changing somehow to showcase what's happening? No? — Klein Muçi (talk) 23:22, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
Live preview doesn't fire up when working on the title field;
Stats (Newest) don't show local time (unlike the comment time), they should say something like "now" when a comment is just posted and date it's not in the local language;
When link auto-conversion/fixing/whatever happens in messages, can we have an option that allows us to add names to it fast? We're talking after the link has been added to the body of the message - Maybe links should be automatically conversed in the piped form and allow us to fill the last part?
Klein Muçi, 1. Done 2. It shows relative time. and date it's not in the local language; I don't understand. 3. Pipe triggers Pipe trick which you may not always want. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:39, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, at that time I had yet to find out about the "happy little accident of the pipe trick". As for the date and local language matter... The date of comments (in the timestamps of signatures) when using DT is localized. For example in SqWiki you get Albanian month names. The same date when Bawl is active is not localized anymore. The stat section above is already localizable so I believe the date should also be, technically speaking. We're basically talking about the names of months and days and the timezone. — Klein Muçi (talk) 11:42, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
I have the option "Display signature dates in local time" ticked but still... I'm also failing to get the live preview working anywhere beside new comments being added. I don't remember this being the case. :/ — Klein Muçi (talk) 11:51, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, The date of comments (in the timestamps of signatures) when using DT is localized. No it isn't. [35] doesn't show Spanish month names. The same date when Bawl is active is not localized anymore. Depends, by default Bawl is no different, unless.. I have the option "Display signature dates in local time" ticked but still... Let me guess: you have an English operating system/browser. If that's right, it's perfectly localized. We're basically talking about the names of months and days and the timezone. You have no idea. There's endless variation: User:Alexis Jazz/Bawl/Mumbo jumbo/Timestamp support. The locale can be passed to toLocaleString(), but not all languages are supported (or guaranteed to be supported) by that. I doubt it's worth adding another field for. I'm also failing to get the live preview working anywhere beside new comments being added. I think it was accidentally working when editing a full page recently. It isn't/wasn't supposed to, so I probably fixed it. Parsing takes way too long on large pages and puts an unreasonable load on the servers. On the other hand, the WMF developers don't give a damn (preview on Joe Biden takes nearly 9 seconds!) so maybe I shouldn't either. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 08:36, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz: No it isn't. [1] doesn't show Spanish month names. I don't understand. :/ I get the Albanian version on your link. I tried changing the link so instead of es it included de. I again get the Albanian version. What am I supposed to be looking for exactly? Let me guess: you have an English operating system/browser. If that's right, it's perfectly localized. I guess... I mean, yes, it is English but... Shouldn't it localize the signature according to our language preferences in our wiki accounts? I think it was accidentally working when editing a full page recently. No, it's not only about that. It didn't work on new sections or editing existing comments. It now does. — Klein Muçi (talk) 15:45, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, I get the Albanian version on your link. Only the interface language changes. (¡Bienvenidos!, Reglas principales, Página del proyecto) But the timestamps never change, because DT doesn't localize them. Shouldn't it localize the signature according to our language preferences in our wiki accounts? Rather difficult. Date/time logic is maddeningly complicated, that's why Bawl hands it off to your browser. And your browser doesn't support every language. And even if it did, your browser expects a locale string for language+region, not just language, but there's no solid way to guess the region. The timezone setting from your preferences could be read, but what if timezone and language conflict? No simple solutions here. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 02:35, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, ooh, you're right. In nearly 10 years of usage I had never been aware of that! Apparently they were only "localized" for me in Albanian because we were in the Albanian Wikipedia. How stupid of me! XD In EnWiki we get English signatures and in ItWiki we get Italian ones, and... This is something I should probably ask for DT to change to be honest because in languages which use other scripts than the ones I mentioned I would be totally lost in understanding dates. Now I understand what that option in Bawl tries to do. Well, if it can't get the date format from the preferences there's not much more we can try here. Archiving awaits. — Klein Muçi (talk) 08:55, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, please don't ask them anything. User:Alexis Jazz/Bawl/Mumbo jumbo/Timestamp support#Support table was a big deal, detecting all the various timestamps in various languages. If DT makes any change, they'll probably change it for the worse which will likely result in more work for me. This is another reason I created the locator, providing a machine-readable timestamp. It's also why WP:LOCO is a relatively popular gadget. (and why Bawl implements most of the features of LOCO) — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:57, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
When a title is clicked on the ToC, it should appear uncollapsed, no matter its state (read/unread). Whatever happens with it we should be careful to keep it consistent with the floating ToC case;
Floating back to the top button (only in long pages?);
Out of curiosity: What's the idea behind the list of links? In what scenario can they be used?
Klein Muçi, 1. Done 2. Don't see much of a reason why that should be part of Bawl. It wouldn't depend on anything Bawl already offers. 3. Maintenance mostly. Compile a list of articles that need to be checked for something from search results for example, so you can strike/remove the articles you've already processed. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:50, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, oh it's about those strange cases. I have Bawl removed from those places. :P As for the back-to-the-top button... It's just a feature I wish Bawl had because I believe it would make my life easier in admin duties regarding general page manipulation/edit. Quick page/section scaling is a general feature you usually want to have when dealing with long bodies of text. You'll also see that I ask for something similar in "Discussion testing" for individual sections. — Klein Muçi (talk) 12:05, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
Stats are not updated after comments are added. A page reload is needed for that;
For the same reason as above, if you create a discussion with 1 comment on it and save it, Bawl doesn't really understand what has happened until you reload the page and you don't get any reply/edit functionalities on the said comment (until you reload); -
Why are there so many damn lines here? Some are stronger than the others. (Uncollapse all sections.) It makes it hard to concentrate on the titles. - I don't think that's Bawl's fault per se though. Maybe some empty lines or vertical spacing could also be introduced between different elements to allow the text some breathing;
Klein Muçi, 1. Correct. Reload (or reparsing the full page content) is required for an accurate update. 2. Can't reproduce. 3. Less lines. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 11:34, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
Live preview enabled, you start a new section and without putting a title, you type on the body. Live preview gets confused and shows 2 equal signs. You press Ctrl+Enter to submit form, the title field shakes and turn red. You press them again to ignore it, it keeps shaking and never actually posting anything. Strangely enough, Ctrl+Shift+Enter works. The new section has 2 equal signs for a title until you reload the page. Neither of the keyboard works for an empty body though.
With enough trying (I was surprised that it didn't yield immediately) it's possible to confuse the new section feature. If the title happens to be any pair of equal signs, it won't actually be a new section. But I believe that's a feature (bug?) of Mediawiki in general so...
If you try to post a completely empty form, ignore the shaking and then when you get the final popup hit cancel, the form gets locked, it can't be edited;
Klein Muçi, 1. Done, preview no longer renders empty subject, empty body isn't meant to work. 2. WP:BEANS, GIGO, etc 3. Done, form gets re-enabled after pressing cancel. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:02, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
If you try to add a subsection to an existing one with the +speech bubble icon but don't put any text as a title (only the body), it will save a completely new section with a double equal sign as a title - When editing said subsection, you won't get live preview enabled;
Every time a section is deleted something is done, be that deletion, editing or adding and the page is saved, Bawl doesn't load until the page gets refreshed - This gets extra confusing when paired with ninja mode;
New section forms don't get the live preview feature;
Klein Muçi, 1. Becomes a comment now. 2. Not sure what you mean. Always reloading and ninja mode are both not default settings. Combined they can be extra confusing, but if everything is working as intended there's nothing to do here. 3. New subsection you mean? It does now. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 14:16, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
{"int":1139,"type":"comment","subtype":"legacy","id":"Klein_Muçi:22:23, 20 August 2022 (UTC):1139","pageTitleInt":1102,"origReplyTo":"Klein_Muçi","origTimestamp":"22:23, 20 August 2022 (UTC)","origTimestampTextNode":"22:23, 20 August 2022 (UTC)","seq":0,"pageTitle":"User talk:Alexis Jazz/Bawl","sectionTitle":"Another report with questions, features and bugs 3","sectionseq":0}
Element types processed: H1, TD, FORM, INPUT, LI, SPAN, A, P, DD, I, S
Additional information: I have the "take over URLs containing section=new" option enabled, and I am getting something funky. At REFUND (If you cannot tell, I am there a lot ) I get the normal editor, and then below it I get the Bawl editor. Either editor will publish correctly, but only the normal one gets the preloaded text when you click the big REFUND button. However, the settings button for Bawl does not do anything (it is still clickable, but it does not open anything. To generate a bug report with my settings, I went to reply to a random comment). I am able to reproduce this at REFUND, on this page when clicking any of the three "bug report/feature request/other issue" buttons above, and in in my sandbox, all of which have preloaded text. However, I (correctly) only get Bawl when I click "new topic" on my user talk page (which does not have preloaded text).
Additionally, I have two feature requests:
With "hide links within elements with the "archived" or "boilerplate" class", the () from the reply and thank buttons are still present, even though the text inside them is gone. Clicking on the unlabeled parenthesis still allows you to reply/send thanks. It is working fine on previous versions of a page, so whatever code you have there works!
Further to the above point, it might be a nice toggleable setting to separate the option to hide the reply button from the option to hide the thanks button, I would chose to be able to send thanks but still disable the ability to (easily) reply.
As always, thank you so much for this tool!! If you ever need any help with testing (for Bawl or otherwise), please let me know—I feel it is the least I can do for you as thanks. Best, HouseBlastertalk01:10, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
HouseBlaster, I have the "take over URLs containing section=new" option enabled Sorry for the extremely late response here. As you may have noticed I've been drowning in reports recently. On a personal note, I spend hours a day crying. Not over wiki, but it takes a substantial amount of time. Also, it's sad. :-/ I fixed some preload stuff, can you test this again? With "hide links within elements with the "archived" or "boilerplate" class", the () from the reply and thank buttons are still present, even though the text inside them is gone. Done Further to the above point, it might be a nice toggleable setting to separate the option to hide the reply button from the option to hide the thanks button Done added option to keep permalink/thanks but hide reply. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 00:12, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
Element types processed: H1, LI, P, I, INPUT, DD, A, SPAN, SMALL, S
Additional information: Error triggered by user.
The old issue of comments not being marked as read, even after the page is loaded, has returned. I susoect this is to do with the new comment highlighting preferences (it started around that time).
Qwerfjkltalk10:09, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, I dunno, could be a coincidence, but who knows. Updating a preference on every page load was kinda unacceptable, so I've changed the thing again. Lastviewed is no longer kept in subs, I moved it to localStorage.BawlLV. This new object uses the watchlist notificationtimestamp data (to work across devices) and just localStorage for pages that aren't watchlisted. (which will not work across devices) It's a big and confusing change and I have trouble focusing so be on the lookout for bugs. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 05:59, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
Additional information: API: "⧼abusefilter-warning-DS⧽" I recently decided that I would become formally aware of AP2, and so I placed a {{DS/aware}} on my UTP (it still works in a comment, apparently). I then decided to test the AbuseFilter warning, and tried to warn myself by placing {{DS/alert|AP}} on my UTP. Then Bawl let me place the alert. Would it be possible to have a popup (as if it were an editnotice) instead? Thanks!
HouseBlastertalk03:30, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
HouseBlaster, it shouldn't have placed the alert if you got the kitty. Did you try again afterwards? The abuse filter is probably set up not to trigger on repeated attempts. What exactly would you expect to happen when you perform which actions exactly? If the abuse filter doesn't trigger (due to a repeated attempt) there's nothing I can do. When it does trigger you get kitty. The "⧼abusefilter-warning-DS⧽" message is odd, it refers to MediaWiki:Abusefilter-warning-DS. I'm wondering if this could be a bug as the ⧼⧽ IIRC indicate a message that couldn't be found/included/parsed. I'm not sure how this is triggered exactly or how this API response is supposed to be handled. @Qwerfjkl, do you have any idea? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 06:48, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz, I just tried it. The first time, it gave the error, and no edit was made. After reloading the page and trying again, it didn't show the error and just saved the edit. — Qwerfjkltalk12:17, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I got exactly what Qwerfjkl got. Sorry I wasn’t more clear—I blame my midnight brain trying to see if it was reproducible and failing. When I perform the first action, I would expect a popup like the kitty, except it contains MediaWiki:Abusefilter/warning-DSMediawiki:Abusefilter-warning-DS.I would then expect to click an “okay/go away popup” button, and then be able to post my still-saved message, if I decide it is still a good idea. The second time I would expect exactly what I got: it just allows me to post.HouseBlastertalk14:12, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Element types processed: H1, P, I, TD, INPUT, LI, SPAN, DD, SMALL
Additional information: API: "⧼abusefilter-warning-DS⧽" Thank you for working on this! I still get the error when I first try to post the alert, and then get no popup the second time. To reproduce, just alert me to AP2.
HouseBlaster, Done (hopefully right this time, I only checked for abusefilter-disallowed but the error code here was abusefilter-warning) — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 18:17, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I found this issue: If I edit a section in the native way here and I save the edit, the page reloads on its top (with ninja mode). It should instead reload with the section edited autofocused. That's the normal behavior everywhere else when using the edit section native button. - Klein Muçi (talk) 08:18, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, I don't understand. Which editor are you using in "the native way"? What does "reloads on its top" mean? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 10:14, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, let me try and explain it differently. Everywhere else where Bawl is not active, if you edit an individual section and save the said edit, the page reloads with that individual section autofocused. If I edit a section with Bawl, the page reloads (I have set on the option to reload the page after every edit) and then it opens with the pages' title autofocused, the intro/header, the top of the page. The section you just edited doesn't get autofocused as it does when Bawl is not active. — Klein Muçi (talk) 12:17, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, you messed up! (possibly) I was trying to post a reply. The form froze when I hit the button. I reloaded to try again. The message was already saved as a draft. I clicked the button and the kitty leaped on me.
Replylinkparams:
{"int":3066,"type":"comment","subtype":"legacy","id":"Xaosflux:13:35, 8 September 2022 (UTC):3066","pageTitleInt":3045,"origReplyTo":"Xaosflux","origTimestamp":"13:35, 8 September 2022 (UTC)","origTimestampTextNode":"13:35, 8 September 2022 (UTC)","seq":0,"pageTitle":"User talk:Xaosflux","sectionTitle":"Inclusion confusion","sectionseq":0}
Icons change into weird arrows while replying. Intentional? I believe this is part of them undergoing metamorphose as we talked but I'm don't believe the arrows are the right way to go. I use grayscale icons (color blind people love me) and the sudden change of them into something deep black takes all my attention into them;
If 2 comments are done successively in a short time, Bawl gets confused and gives a "page have been changed..." popup, even though the 2nd comment is already saved;
Alexis Jazz, I haven't seen that popup in a while so maybe it is fixed now. (Or maybe it is because now I've chosen to have my page reloaded after every action.) As for the icons, instead of black arrows, maybe we get the @ symbol for mentions and the link symbol, both with a minor positional change, like being bigger/smaller or rotated? — Klein Muçi (talk) 16:33, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
Yeap, unfortunately Bawl still gets confused if "parse comments in place" is active. Clicking refresh page on that popup works though. — Klein Muçi (talk) 16:37, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, @ would blend into the text. (and link/thank icons are optional) If it was bigger, maybe, but that would affect line height. And still can't reproduce. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 05:58, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I don't know. I just feel like the arrows are a bit ambiguous, especially when we already use arrows for collapsing sections. If we are to really stick with them, maybe we should make them a tiny bit more faded in color? I don't know how they look in blue mode but in gray mode they kinda feel too prominent, for a function which is rarely used, at least by me. We shouldn't fade them too much though as that would mess with the silhouettes in the background or could make the heart in the middle "pop up" more. I can't reproduce it either now. Maybe it only happens when the server is overloaded somehow or anything similar (I could be speaking nonsense). — Klein Muçi (talk) 09:05, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, I see no problem with the arrows, both in color and grayscale mode. Here's an option to disable the icon swap. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:28, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
After em-dash was introduced, when you edit existing replies, it will load there together with the text but the signature won't. Strangely enough, if you edit the whole section with the pencil icon, it won't show but the signature will (?!) - The em-dash is also missing a space on the right side;
Section statistics won't update for subsections activity. Also what does Add activity information only to title attribute of sections do?
The +speech bubble keeps trying to add subsections indefinitely by raising the number of equal signs pairs in titles even when the Mediawiki limit for that is reached
Klein Muçi, 1. The missing space was fixed. Can't reproduce the other things. (maybe I fixed them and didn't get around to answering here?) 2. Correct and you already asked about the title thing. 3. Can't reproduce. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 14:25, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, the +speech bubble doesn't add equal signs indefinitely anymore but the live preview starts breaking down in level 5-6 subsection-wise and starts showing equal signs when you're typing a title. — Klein Muçi (talk) 16:51, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, that's fixed but now another problem exists: After level 5–6, the editor malfunctions and reverts to 3 equal signs instead of maintaining the maximum of 6. Further levels start increasing +1 pair from level 3. — Klein Muçi (talk) 09:14, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
You messed up! (username+timestamp Klein_Muçi+16:51, 21 August 2022 (UTC) not found, seq: 0)
Alexis Jazz, you messed up! (possibly) I have no idea what's going to be honest...
Replylinkparams:
{"int":1266,"type":"comment","subtype":"legacy","id":"Klein_Muçi:16:51, 21 August 2022 (UTC):1266","pageTitleInt":819,"origReplyTo":"Klein_Muçi","origTimestamp":"16:51, 21 August 2022 (UTC)","origTimestampTextNode":"6:51 pm, Yesterday (UTC+2)","seq":0,"pageTitle":"User talk:Alexis Jazz/Bawl","sectionTitle":"Feature request","sectionseq":0}
Also, speaking of interaction, there should be a way to break ninja mode beside the "interact with the title" one that includes interaction with the body of the discussion. Going to the title is hard to do on long discussions. Maybe by double-clicking it. — Klein Muçi (talk) 23:52, 21 August 2022 (UTC)Page: [41]
Klein Muçi, can you try again? This is why many options that can influence each other are problematic. Users may or may not have WP:LOCO enabled which requires a hack, they may or may not have exact timestamp boundaries enabled, they may or may not have local time timestamps enabled. Testing everything myself is impossible. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:44, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, yeah, honest opinion, as I've said before, I'm surprised you're even this fast on resolving issues while being alone in this. And I know exactly what you mean about the increased complexity in interactions as more settings are continuously introduced, part of the reason why I'm trying to provide an "extreme environment" for testing, by basically putting everything on and hitting every button in all the possible sequences and scenarios I can think of. You're doing a surprising good job and I believe once most of the issues above have been dealt with there won't be a lot new ones introduced for a while and the rhythm will be manageable (to say the least). I will try reposting that same message but I'm not sure if there's much to try for me. I already posted a lot of other messages in other places after that 1 single message failed delivering. I only made the bug report because I thought it would help you on better scrutinizing the micro-details on the background. — Klein Muçi (talk) 12:57, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, Maybe by double-clicking it. Done. why I'm trying to provide an "extreme environment" for testing, by basically putting everything on and hitting every button in all the possible sequences and scenarios I can think of. And I appreciate it. :-) Doing that as a developer is quite a bit harder because whenever you run into something your first instinct is to fix it right away, but you never finish testing like that. And there are so many things I simply wouldn't think of, things that require fresh eyes. there won't be a lot new ones introduced for a while and the rhythm will be manageable That would be nice, but I thought that before. In a tool as complex as this one, there are always things that could be better. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 16:11, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, ? I don't see the logic in that? And by "breaks" you mean "initiated" I assume, using "break" in the sense of "break of dawn"? That doesn't work in this context. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 05:53, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, no. "Break" as in breaking glass or ice. The way ninja mode works, in my eyes, is as a veil/glass that is put on the page which you need to break before you can do anything with it. What happens 99% of the time is that I get into a section from an email link, I want to reply to it but I can't as I'm in ninja mode. The discussion is long and scrolling to its title takes time. Frustrated, I click furiously at it and after the latest update, that works to break ninja mode. But now everything is closed. I still can't reply. And the focus has moved. I have to click again to the title's discussion to collapse it. After I find the section I wanted, I still can't reply because the discussion was long so I need to scroll to its bottom. And then, finally, I can reply. And given the lever action nature of Bawl, I need to refresh the page manually and go through all that again for another notification. If we're in a page as this one, 1 in 3 titles is nearly identic and I have no idea which was the section I wanted to reply to. I have to scroll all the way up to the top of the page, collapse all sections and Ctrl+F the part of the discussion I wanted. This is a living hell but it's okay because, as I've said in another answer, I'm using Bawl in rather extreme conditions for testing reasons. That said though, having the section you break the (glass of) ninja mode in be collapsed and ready to use would make life easier for a lot of people I suppose. It's really surprising to have every section collapsed and as soon as you want to try and interact with them, you see that in fact you were in the Matrix and they were uncollapsed all along and now you need to navigate your way in the post-apocalyptic world of Brawl. — Klein Muçi (talk) 11:05, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, that's just not how it works. would make life easier for a lot of people Hardly anyone uses this tool, far fewer use ninja mode, even fewer combine ninja mode with autocollapse. (which isn't a very sensible combination IMHO) you see that in fact you were in the Matrix and they were uncollapsed all along They weren't, they got collapsed when you double clicked. You didn't go to Zion, you didn't wake up in the real world, you just plugged into The Matrix. And now you can fly. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 04:00, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I love the reference and I really hate making it be not the last comment but I have to insist: There's absolutely no way for me to double click a certain section in ninja mode and just have that section stay there where it is? Same as it does when you click the title of the section? Without having the page jump around? That's all I'm asking basically. — Klein Muçi (talk) 10:28, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, have it stay where it is without jumping? Technically, I'm not even sure if it's possible. Would I enjoy spending 2-3 hours to try and find out for a feature combination that in the history of mankind will be used by five people tops, considering I'm already at breaking point and should be running away screaming to pursue something more fulfilling? No. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 13:53, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I understand what you mean. If you ever find yourself with some extra time in the future though, I'd be really grateful if you can find a way to make that happen, whenever that is. (Or improve it so the jumps aren't gigantic/"random".) Ninja mode is most likely a feature I'll keep using even after finishing testing and being able to double click and immediately start editing with Bawl Factotum is one of the main things I've been looking forward to utilize with it. But I understand what you mean so it's okay. — Klein Muçi (talk) 00:46, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
┌───────────────────────────┘ Klein Muçi, far from jump-free, but I made the jumps smaller in many cases which wasn't as big a ask. Doesn't work 100% reliably and in longer discussions it can still result in a large jump depending on where you click. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:19, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, a living legend. Can you tell me more about what's going on on the background? What causes the jumps? I want to know that so I can anticipate the behavior better and know if I have to scroll up or down, or how much. Even though I tried it in some scenarios here and only rarely the autofocus option didn't work, most of the times it gave me what I wanted and I'm really happy for that. Thank you! — Klein Muçi (talk) 10:17, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, it gets the HTML element you clicked and scrolls to that after everything is loaded. Try entering this in your browser console and click around the page:
You'll see which element you clicked on the console. In a long indented discussion, if you click near the edge on the right (click inside of the indentation) you can click the element that belongs to a comment much higher up. Generally I'd recommend clicking the text of the first paragraph of any comment, that should be likely to work well. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 14:38, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, since when does Bawl use HTML tags instead of the classical wikimarkup for formatting? This may be considered "source pollution" by intermediate users and some bot operators. I was trying to edit the list in the last bug report I made here and I was surprised to see it consisted of ol and li tags instead of the usual hashtags. I only discovered this after the edit function malfunctioned and refused to format the last item as part of the list. No matter how much I tried with hashtags it wouldn't become part of the list. When I checked its source I saw that the code had become extra polluted incorporating both markups simultaneously and given that the third item somehow had ended up outside the ol tag, it stayed on its own line with an extra hashtag that did nothing. I thought this was an error but apparently there are other discussions in this page as well which have similar markups. — Klein Muçi (talk) 01:03, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, so it is a bug. I thought that was "the new norm". Okay then. What about the current syntax for italic and bold? that's not HTML but it's not the classical wikimarkup either. Is that intentional? — Klein Muçi (talk) 08:59, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I'd like to be able to select something from the title/body/summary field, click the link icon and convert it into a wikilink. Extra care for categories. — Klein Muçi (talk) 20:59, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
Actually that functionality should be extended to all formatting icons as well. You select something, click the strikethrough icon and it gets strikenthrough. I was now surprised to learn that the formatting icons didn't already behave like that. — Klein Muçi (talk) 00:45, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, selecting text and pressing the link icon now results in the selected text becoming (part of) the link name. To convert selected text into a wikilink, use a custom insert: [[BAWLCRT]]:<<Wikilink>>. I was now surprised to learn that the formatting icons didn't already behave like that. Actually it does, just not when CodeMIrror is enabled. Can't fix as I don't know how to get selection range info from CodeMirror. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 21:05, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, selecting text and pressing the link icon now results in the selected text becoming (part of) the link name. I believe I do understand the reason why you've gone this way (to be able to linquefy AND rename links fast) but I find the rename process really confusing. Personally I'd wish that the link icon served to turn into a wikilink the selected text, even if this meant we'd have to sacrifice the quick-rename function. This would be consistent behavior with the way the formatting icons also work. Even if you decide to keep that function as it is, I feel that it shouldn't be allowed to merge text as it currently does. If decided to be kept, the selected text can auto-appear in the "Link name (optional)" form when the link icon is clicked, thus indicating to users what's going on. Currently the process happens on the background and if you happen to also add some text in the "Link name (optional)" form, both texts (the selected one and the one you just entered on the form) will get merged to create the name that the link will have, which is confusing to say the least because 50% of the process happens hidden from the eyes of the public. But as I said, personally I'd go for "link icon turns text in a wikilink" function. I think that "turning text into wikilinks" is encountered far more often as a situation (for example, in alla Teahouse scenarios) than the need to use a certain text as a name for a yet-to-be-created link. Can't fix as I don't know how to get selection range info from CodeMirror. I'll reply to this in the post made specifically about it. — Klein Muçi (talk) 23:04, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
You can't subscribe to news sections in talkspace. The kitty says there were no signatures so it couldn't bring itself to do it. I believe you should be allowed to subscribe to them;
You can't subscribe past the first subsection (for example in a sub-subsection). Sometimes the kitten will say something about missing signatures again. I believe you should be allowed to subscribe in every possible heading for as long as they're in the talkspace.
The bell takes a bit of time to update itself visually (and I suppose the subscriptions do so internally as well). Sometimes I have to click it multiple times because I'm not sure if its working or not. I believe there's not much that can be done about it but I thought I'd say anyway.
Klein Muçi, 1. Well you can't. Sections must be identified somehow. Section titles aren't unique enough. A (portion of) section text wouldn't be reliable either, especially with things like Tech News which have recurring sections. So there's no way to ID the section. 2. You Can't Always Get What You Want 3. Some sort of indicator maybe.. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 14:08, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, this is strange because I actually can subscribe to news sections now and even subsections of all kinds of levels. This has been going for a while now. I mean, unless the bell is lying to me... The kitty hasn't said anything at least. As for the bell... It's faster than it used to be as well. If we want to go the indicator way though, 3 dots or an hourglass are good first options I can think of. — Klein Muçi (talk) 23:37, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, a full signature isn't needed, a timestamp is sufficient. Looks like I changed it so the icon updates without waiting for confirmation that your preferences have been saved (if you enabled the Store subscriptions in account preferences setting) because that's the slow part and it rarely fails anyway. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 15:38, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I found this issue: The 3 top buttons on this page change dimensions when switching ninja mode on and off. If any of them is pressed while ninja mode is off, some inconsistencies will be present in the form that issues. There is no mention button and if you click the link icon, the issuing link form will touch the three buttons on the right side (it normally doesn't). You also don't get a move section but maybe that's normal. — Klein Muçi (talk) 12:00, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, what are the "3 top buttons" you are referring to? I remember, the inputbox buttons, that was for technical reasons but I worked around that and they no longer change size. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 13:58, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
VM1233:1573 Uncaught TypeError: Cannot read properties of undefined (reading 'setReadOnly')
at FTT disableForm (<anonymous>:1573:23)
at FTT addScrewedLink (<anonymous>:1894:6)
at <anonymous>:5330:9
Additional information: API: "Your edit was not saved because it contains a new external link to a [[Wikipedia:Spam blacklist|site registered on Wikipedia's blacklist]] or [[m:Spam blacklist|Wikimedia's global blacklist]]. * '''To save your changes now''', you must go back and ''remove the blocked link'' (shown below), and then save. **Note that if you used a redirection link or [[URL shortening|URL shortener]] (like e.g. '''goo.gl''', '''t.co''', '''youtu.be''', '''bit.ly'''), you may still be able to save your changes by using the direct, non-shortened link - you generally obtain the non-shortened link by following the link, and copying the contents of the address bar of your web-browser after the page has loaded. ** Links containing '''google.com/url?''' are resulting from a copy/paste from the result page of a Google search - please follow the link on the result page, and copy/paste the contents of the address bar of your web-browser after the page has loaded, or [https://url-converter.toolforge.org/ click here] to convert the link. * '''If you feel the link is needed''', you can: ** ''Request that the entire website be allowed'', that is, removed from the [[MediaWiki talk:Spam-blacklist#Proposed removals|local]] or [[meta:Talk:Spam blacklist#Proposed removals|global]] spam blacklists (check both lists to see which one is affecting you). ** ''Request that just the specific page be allowed'', without unblocking the whole website, by asking on the [[MediaWiki talk:Spam-whitelist|spam whitelist talk page]]. Blacklisting indicates past problems with the link, so any requests should '''clearly''' demonstrate how inclusion would benefit Wikipedia. The following link has triggered a protection filter: referenceforbusiness.com Either that exact link, or a portion of it (typically the root domain name) is currently blocked. Solutions: * If the URL used is a URL shortener/redirect, please use the full URL in its place, for example, use "youtube.com" rather than "youtu.be", * If the URL is a Google URL, please look to use the (full) original source, not the Google shortcut or its alternative. * Look to find an alternative URL that is considered authoritative."
Probably should have a warning instead. Also, none of the links work; it's displayed as shown above.
To save your changes now, you must go back and remove the blocked link (shown below), and then save. Note that if you used a redirection link or URL shortener (like e.g. goo.gl, t.co...
With the not formatted as a list item (only once, in this case) Secondly, the blacklisted URL is not highlighted (after "The following link has triggered a protection filter: ") — Qwerfjkltalk09:16, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, API returns MediaWiki:Spamprotectiontext without newlines. I already added an ugly hack to put / [\\*]+ / on a new line. MediaWiki talk:Spamprotectiontext#Edit request 10 September 2022 From the raw API response: "The following link has triggered a protection filter: referenceforbusiness.com Either that exact link, or a portion of it (typically the root domain name) is currently blocked.". It's not highlighted there. Text comes from MediaWiki:Spamprotectionmatch, no idea why the API doesn't pass on the highlighting but that's something for the paid WMF developers to figure out. Try your luck on Phabricator.. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 10:15, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
Discussion testing 6
I have no idea why but suddenly I see Subscribe links from DT with Bawl enabled;
Discussions need a button at their bottom to uncollapse them back;
(Only long?) discussions maybe need a back to the top button that sends you back to their title - Think this in conjunction with the point above;
Comment highlighting on click doesn't work on the first "comment", the post that starts the discussion. Intentional?
Klein Muçi, 1. Possibly the setting "Hide subscription links from DiscussionTools if Bawl subscription links are enabled" 2. You mean to collapse them. Make a design for a button/link (in particular its location which must be available regardless of title length) and I'll consider it. 3. See 2. 4. Either I fixed it and forgot or it generally works for me. (doesn't work on lists like your post in this section though, but could be risky to fix) — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 14:38, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, no, it's not that. It happens only on some pages and it is not the usual [subscribe] link. It's a blue subscribe link without brackets and with a blue bell on the left side. I'm confused about ...in particular its location which must be available regardless of title length... Why would such a button have anything to do with the title? Maybe we are picturing different things? The way I was imagining it was for a button/link to be beside the final comment in an open discussion which on click would close the discussion back and send you to its title (or just send you to its title without closing it - you decide on that). In my scenario such a button/link would only care about the final answer's characteristics, nothing else. It does work now but it is pretty inconsistent. It never de-highlights back automatically and you can highlight multiple comments simultaneously. ... And sometimes it takes multiple clicks to highlight them. — Klein Muçi (talk) 22:32, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, It happens only on some pages Link? and it is not the usual [subscribe] link. It's a blue subscribe link without brackets and with a blue bell on the left side. Screenshot? (maybe not needed if I can reproduce it with the link) The way I was imagining it was for a button/link to be beside the final comment in an open discussion Can't float to bottom, there's no guarantee that there is any "beside" room left in the comment. Inserting a whole bar would work but would cause the page to jump significantly when loading. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 03:46, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I hope I encounter it again. I'll send a screenshot and the link if I do. As for the button... Can't it be just beside the three icons that already appear beside every comment? link/heart/bubble/BUTTON Maybe only for the last comment if there are only X comments or so? — Klein Muçi (talk) 10:36, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
My prayers were answered. See here for the "alternative" subscribe button. I have nothing against it. I'm just confused as to what is going on. It looks like it doesn't have to do with Bawl per se but with DT. But I'm just confused as to what is going on. Why are there different kinds of subscribe links? — Klein Muçi (talk) 11:02, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, thank you! For me personally it feels like a missing puzzle has been fitted right where it belonged. Some minor adjustments:
The icon appears even beside the larger-than-usual speech bubble, whenever that is present. It shouldn't. Actually the said bubble is always there now, even when sections are all closed (check your personal talk page) and clicking on it does nothing.
When a section is closed, its title should be autofocused.
Can the icon be an up pointing arrow please?
Maybe it should be on the opposite side of the row of icons, on the right side of the pencil?
Thank you for fixing these! Just so we save time I think the arrow should be even more darker/thicker because currently it is a bit hard to distinguish it from text characters. Compare it maybe with the link icon. Also the spacing should be fixed. Currently it is not equally spaced in either side, be that from the pencil or from the DT reply link.
The autofocus feature works in an unusual way which I'm not sure if it is intended or not. Depending on how low you have scrolled, the title will be autofocused either in the upper part of the screen or in the lower part. Normally you expect it to always happen in the upper part. - Klein Muçi (talk) 21:10, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
┌───────────────────────────┘ Klein Muçi, no it doesn't. If the title isn't in view it's scrolled into view. If it's already in view it doesn't scroll at all. If the title happens to be in the lower part of your screen when you collapse the section that's your choice. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 04:52, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I see. Okay for that part but when the "scrolling into view" happens, you get it in the literal top of the page. Normally you expect it somewhere more near the middle, a bit lower from there. Can we lower it down a bit so it has some space from the browser's header? My eyes always fail to locate it. And thank you for the other cosmetic changes. They look good now. — Klein Muçi (talk) 08:33, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, maybe some highlight of some sort is needed as well? Try using that function in this section with all the other sections closed. Without knowing the title beforehand, can you understand what section you just closed? I'm finding it very hard myself. — Klein Muçi (talk) 22:39, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, thank you! It works nicely now. When the closed section is opened back it also remembers where you left it. I don't know if that is intended or not but I thought I'd tell. I think it's a nice behavior. Actually that doesn't happen anymore but sometimes the highlighting is extra fast. I believe that happens when you're too far down on very big sections. Check what happens if you try to close the "Reports on Bawl" section on your personal talk page while being in its bottom. Try the procedure multiple times. — Klein Muçi (talk) 08:42, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, apparently it happens everywhere all the time. (Or at least that's what is going on for me right now.) The fading is too fast to my judgement. I believe it should be slowed down a bit. The fading time is random. Sometimes is normal, sometimes is really fast. I suppose other factors are at play but if it is good for you all the time, maybe it will "fix itself". You decide anyway and archive this thread. — Klein Muçi (talk) 20:42, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
Feature request (19 August 2022, 12:59)
Alexis Jazz, epic proportions request but I'd like it if Bawl could allow for easier image AND TABLE handling/editing. I avoid tables like the plague but maybe Bawl can change that. - Klein Muçi (talk) 12:59, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, I thought about this in the past and it's indeed not a small request. Insertion of a table would be one thing, but editing an existing table, that's where things get really complicated. (especially if classes etc are modified afterwards) For images some workflow would have to be devised. Both would be nice to have though. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 13:12, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
I've recently noticed that DT already provide some help in regard to images. That's how I've uploaded all the screenshots so far. Maybe you'd be interested in taking a look if you haven't done yet. To do so, hit printscreen somewhere, click a reply link with DT anywhere and press Ctrl+V. Then you can follow the rabbit hole. — Klein Muçi (talk) 23:56, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, that's cool. Judging by how hardworking you are about this project I suspect you'll end up doing most of them yourself anyway. :P It's really good if you can get some help though. You can go on and archive these threads about such potential modules. — Klein Muçi (talk) 20:51, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
When editing just-outdented comments, the outdenting line also gets opened in the text edit and in the live preview. It shouldn't;
DT signatures get opened while editing old comments. Maybe they shouldn't;
When filtering settings and then unmarking/marking something, you don't get back to the original state of settings, you go to "full list mode". You shouldn't;
Klein Muçi, 1. Done 2. Done but conditional. Your current signature is read from mw.user.options.get('nickname'). If you changed it since you posted the comment in question it won't match. If you use substitution it won't work either. 3. I think that's fixed as well. 4. No they're not. Maybe they were. Who knows. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 08:44, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, does your current signature have a dash? Link? It's probably limited to comments from a specific period, I think the dash was outside the locator at some point. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 17:04, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I tried it in an old comment of mine in your personal talk page. I don't have a dash in my signature. But tried it again in some old comments of mine there and everything appears fine. I guess archiving awaits. — Klein Muçi (talk) 21:47, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
Feature request (24 August 2022, 01:43)
Alexis Jazz, I'd like to be able to rearrange my templated answers, be those top or bottom, autopost or not. This should happen by drag and dropping them on the edit form and by drag and dropping the edit fields on the Edit header in settings. If one form of drag and drop happens it should be reflected on the other form as well.
Extra: Make empty forms auto-disappear from settings. Maybe allow include-in-the-middle new edit fields in the settings. Maybe allow creating and deleting templated answers from the edit form (without going to the settings). — Klein Muçi (talk) 01:43, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, Can we have per-project templated answers? Sure. Save your settings on the project in question to your non-global account or your browser. For the other stuff: I'm not going to do that. It would take a lot of effort, introduce many new bugs, add a boatload of code and all that for something you can, if you must, achieve anyway by copy-pasting your templated answers around a bit in the settings. If it were simple I'd do it - but it isn't. It's another thing that could technically be implemented with a module, but I won't be writing it. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 00:22, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, it's alright. I believe the Make empty forms auto-disappear from settings. part should be implemented thought as it currently acts more as a bug than a normal feature. If you have 3 templated answers (A, B and C) and you move B below C and save the settings, it will forever stay A,(empty form), C and B. Move them again and the empty forms start accumulating. — Klein Muçi (talk) 08:13, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, those are actually empty inserts and they count towards the maximum. Your idea of moving B below C actually makes me think there's a use case for that: to allow rearranging them later, or insert another one at some specific point. Maybe a button could be made to remove empty fields. Question is, where would the button go? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 18:22, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, my idea was to have all the fields in the settings have drag and drop handles by their side and let them move around that way. They can also be used as buttons to allow a new entry in the middle. Or maybe even to delete them. The "empty inserts" can be made to auto-disappear after they become empty or when the settings are closed and no extra button would be needed. I then thought to do all these things without going to the settings hence the post. If the later idea looks like too much, maybe we can utilize the first one. If even the first one looks too much, we can utilize the drag and drop handles and the auto-disappear function. And if even that looks too much on its own, we can just bring the auto-disappear function on closing the settings. — Klein Muçi (talk) 23:43, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, the text box for custom inserts on the settings always starts "minimized". Can it be made so it starts on "full size"? Also I think the explanation should be improved to accommodate for the new change. I would have never known that I can create multiple "buttons" in that "free form text box". — Klein Muçi (talk) 22:43, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, Can it be made so it starts on "full size"? Apparently not, OO.ui issue it seems. I forced it to adjust on click. (it already adjusted when you changed the contents) I could make it adjust when you click anywhere in the settings, but that seems wasteful. Updated descriptions. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 18:08, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, could be done in module form. If someone writes a neat module and releases it as public domain it could potentially be incorporated in vanilla Bawl. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 14:58, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
Donald Trung, first time I opened the link a "vote now" button was shown on top of the editor, but I couldn't reproduce it. Otherwise I see no problem. What's happening for you? Does disabling Bawl make a difference? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 16:54, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz:, please open this page in mobile, then click on "Read as wiki page" and then try to open the sections. I haven't been able to do this since between 1~2 September. I do not have this issue when I am not using "Bawl!". --Donald Trung (talk) 19:30, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
Donald Trung, 1. Are you using mobile advanced mode? 2. What do you mean with "open the sections"? What are you clicking/pressing on? 3. Exactly what happens when you do, if anything at all? 4. Your link is longer valid because there are less than 50 sections here now. I tried lowering the number and it seems to work for me. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 06:11, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
What happens.
@Alexis Jazz:, pings don't work for me at the English-language Wikipedia, I have had this issue for years, but that's not the issue at hand.
1. Yes, I use the Advanced Mode for Mobile.
2. See video.
3 & 4. I have this issue on every page regardless of number of sections.
Donald Trung, you said click on "Read as wiki page" but that actually resolved this issue which is why I couldn't reproduce it. It might work better now. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 18:28, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
Lately I've started getting Bawl notifications. I'm still not totally sure how subscriptions and notifications work because I've never been fully informed on how they work generally (why do we have 2 kinds of notifications instead of 1?!) but I'll try to give some thoughts about those nonetheless (which may be chaotic because of my lack of general information).
First of all, the colors. If you have multiple Bawl notifications and hover on one of them, all of them get highlighted and the text turns blue. Why do they all get highlighted? The blue-text highlighting itself isn't consistent with the way other notifications highlighting works which have just a general background highlighting. Also, there is a bright orange color in the text when clicked which again is excessive when compared with the native notifications which have only a general blue outline. And they take longer to turn grey once you press the blue dot on the top right corner to mark them as read. They act consistently in highlighting the 2 links at the bottom but Bawl is missing some blue ink in its symbol, at least for me. Is that because I'm using grayscale icons? I believe the symbol there should be blue, no matter if that mode is active or not.
Secondly, the content. In native notifications you get something like "This user did this thing here." In Bawl notifications you don't get said any information about who actually did the thing. You get 2 links, the user-link and the user-talk-link. In the native notifications you get the user-link and the diff-link. To be honest, can't really say how important any of them is as I've rarely used any of them in my usual workflows regarding notifications but because Bawl doesn't currently mention the user's name in the top of the notification, the user-link currently has great value for them. The time period is the same for both of them but Bawl is also missing an unsubscribe button, which in the native ones you get once you click the three dots.
Finally, their storage and usage. I have no idea what happens with their storage. Sometimes they disappear completely, sometimes they reappear again... When you click them, the correct page loads but nothing gets autofocused. Is it because I have the ninja mode on? Also when viewing them from other projects, for example, viewing EnWiki Bawl notifications from SqWiki, no mentioning of the origin is done.
In all what I've said above I'd personally wish for as much consistency in the look, feel and behavior with the native notifications as possible. Is it already bad enough that we have 2 kinds of notifications natively. Introducing new styling would make that number practically raise to 3, a deed which should only be undertaken if the cost of added benefits far outweighs the confusion the lack of consistency may bring.
I have no idea how thank notifications work with Bawl or how notifications coming from multi-user discussions would look like as I haven't gotten any of them. Or how multi notifications coming from the same source would get bundled. I also am not sure how they interact with email links or DT. I get email notifications for mentions, comments and edits in regard to my watchlist, most likely because I have DT still active "on the background". This is actually good because, for me, 90% of the wikiworkflows start from emails. I get an email notification in my phone, follow the link there and keep following the rabbit whole that issues by laptop if needed. But I have no idea what happens with Bawl notifications during this process, if they are marked as read when I follow the supposedly DT (?) email link to a certain discussion Bawl is also notifying me about. Or if they are marked as read when I interact with the said discussion.
A general note about the user experience affecting notifications can be made here emphasizing the clunkiness that issues by a combination of factors: Currently, as I've touched in another discussion above, generally speaking, Bawl works like a lever-action gun; You do 1 action and you need to reload before you can do another action or you'll most likely start encountering errors. When this is coupled with ninja mode the complexity rises even more as now you'll need to actually break it off first before you can do anything. This hinders speed in general but I believe it also makes working with notifications pretty hard. Maybe even collapsed sections play a part in this. - Klein Muçi (talk) 23:44, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
Funnily enough, apparently, I have typed the whole thing with DT instead of Bawl because I was in ninja mode and hadn't noticed. — Klein Muçi (talk) 23:46, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
I got a notification from a multi-user discussion. The title again doesn't give complete information relying instead on the 2 links at the bottom to complete the needed information. The text gets highlighted in orange even when the links at the bottom are the only ones being clicked, not the notification as a whole. The page-link doesn't seem to be much useful when the notification is coming from a page such as WP:VPT which has countless of sections in it. The notification is not appearing in other projects outside EnWiki. — Klein Muçi (talk) 02:28, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, I hadn't noticed the color changes. I'll look into them. Is it because I have the ninja mode on? Yes. And they take longer to turn grey once you press the blue dot on the top right corner to mark them as read. Bawl has to update a global user preference to make this happen. It's waiting for confirmation from the server. You get 2 links, the user-link and the user-talk-link. In the native notifications you get the user-link and the diff-link. Diff link would be either relatively expensive or complicated to provide. There are three links: the user-link, a plain link to the page where the new comment was posted and the rest of the area is a link that includes BwlScrToUser and BwlScrToTime parameters. If the latter is followed, the comment in question will be highlighted (but this doesn't currently work with ninja mode) and the notification will be marked as read. Also when viewing them from other projects, for example, viewing EnWiki Bawl notifications from SqWiki, no mentioning of the origin is done. Which is a massive improvement over how it was until recently: you never got notifications for projects other than the one you were on. :-) Let's just hope phab:T306211 will be resolved someday. Bawl is also missing an unsubscribe button, which in the native ones you get once you click the three dots. This will add a fair bit of complexity, and if you store subscription data in localStorage (which is the default) it'll be impossible. how thank notifications work with Bawl Same as when you thank a user from the history page. That doesn't use echo emulation. Or how multi notifications coming from the same source would get bundled. Regarding how they are displayed: not at all. I also am not sure how they interact with email links or DT. I get email notifications for mentions, comments and edits in regard to my watchlist, most likely because I have DT still active "on the background". This is actually good because, for me, 90% of the wikiworkflows start from emails. Email is not currently supported. if they are marked as read when I follow the supposedly DT (?) email link to a certain discussion Bawl is also notifying me about. Or if they are marked as read when I interact with the said discussion. No and no. They are only marked as read if you click "Mark all as read" or the blue dot in the top right corner for a single notification. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 06:36, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, some of this stuff fixed (colors, got some rudimentary mail support), other stuff is too complicated/impossible. (unsubscribe button in notifications) — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:27, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, the current state is a big improvement on what it was. I've been taking notes and these are some of the differences I can find with the current state and the DT notifications:
When following a Factotum notification there is no highlighting in the comment, only autofocus. (When following a DT notification the highlighting of DT has no gradual fading, just abruptly stops more or less - If I remember correctly, this is a regression.);
The Factotum icon in them is still grey. Shouldn't it be blue?
There is no bundling whatsoever. The number can go crazy in 24 hours if you have 2-3 discussions ongoing;
If the notices icon is clicked and the notifications are seen but not followed, the number doesn't fade, it still remains blue. In all the other notifications the number becomes grey;
When receiving notifications from outside the current project their behavior is different from the ones coming from DT - They get bundled under the project's name and can be accessed in a dropdown menu;
When clicking a Factotum notification its outline gets highlighted, its overall color never changes and it is gone forever. When clicking a DT notification, its outline gets highlighted, its overall color changes and it is there forever. Can we have the Factotum notifications behave the same by staying around for "a bit" in a changed overall color (grey)?
No unsubscribe button as you mentioned;
User and page link malfunction when you're viewing notifications outside the project they're coming from. They try to open such pages in the current project instead of linking to the original project
I have yet to test the mail notifications. Meanwhile I thought some of these could be "fixed", even if not all. Tell me which can be changed. :) — Klein Muçi (talk) 23:45, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, 1. You're wrong. There is. 2. You enabled grayscale icons. If I make it blue, you (or someone else) will ask if it shouldn't be gray. 3. Now only 1 notification per section. 4. I've never seen any number fade. Not in native notifications, not in emulation, just never. 5. Factotum is not DT. I put enough work into this. phab:T306211 is supposed to fix this. 6. User:Alexis Jazz/Factotum/Mumbo jumbo#Known limitations and known unknowns 7. WONTFIX 8. fixed — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 16:17, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz, the number fade I talked about. The 1 was bright red and "faded" into grey after the bell was clicked once but the notification inside wasn't followed. The 4 stays blue all the time because of Factotum.
Klein Muçi, it behaves it a bit odd because it's complicated. It also depends on EXACTLY where you click in what order. If you click the alerts bell (which Factotum doesn't do anything with), MediaWiki also resets the notification counter next to it, forcing Factotum to re-update it. At any rate, clicking the bell is never supposed to turn the notification counter gray. Factotum only delivers notifications, never alerts. And any notification from Factotum counts as unread until deleted. There are no "read" notifications. In the long term phab:T306211 will fix all this crap. And fading means fading, a smooth transition, which never happens here. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 13:37, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz, Factotum only delivers notifications, never alerts., yes, I am aware of that. I just used the bell as an example because that's what I could easily screenshot at the moment. The other icon, whatever that is precisely, also behaves the same normally, with its numbers becoming grey if they don't get followed/read. With Factotum they never do because of what you just explained, that's what I was trying to say. Given that that is an "intended" effect, we're cool even for that.
I'll ask you to not archive this thread for a bit though so I can try out the mail function and see if there's anything to report there. Unfortunately I can't do that now as I'm currently not using Factotum because of the problem I've explained in your personal talk page. I can't use the settings at all and even before, saving new settings and remembering that save proved out to be a problem for me. So this is a problem that will have to be solved in the end. Klein Muçi (talk) 14:53, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, how about I archive this section and you create a new one for mail problems? There are known issues with the exact messaging in mail though (message is not adjusted for combined notifications and I thought there was something else) so you might want to wait. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 15:52, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
ToC can't link to sections if they're uncollapsed and if you click on it, it basically does nothing. It should instead link to the section and collapse it.
Collapse all non-talk page sections by default doesn't work. I activated it and yet all the articles I load have their sections uncollapsed.
Floating ToC behaves badly with ninja mode on. Same thing with a hidden ToC. Try it. ... Actually ToC appears uncollapsed all the time, it's not the fault of the aforementioned settings.
A note about this: I've noticed that I may be wrong in the way I used the terms "collapse"/"uncollapse" after you corrected me for them 1-2 times. I have since resorted to use "open" and "closed" instead. This is one of the old posts. In my mind, "collapse=open" because something "collapses down into its integral parts" (into its subsections). I don't know how much that is true for your or other people though. - Klein Muçi (talk) 08:14, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, The building collapsed. The woman collapsed. wikt:en:collapse: To fold compactly. / To hide additional directory (folder) levels below the selected directory (folder) levels. Things that collapse become smaller. 1. Works for me now 2. Forgot to set "Collapsible sections on non-talk pages" as a dependency for that, did so. 3. "behaves badly"? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 14:28, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz, believe it or not, that's how I used to use that term: collapse=closed
It was after some discussions in MediaWiki where I vaguely remember some editors using it in the reverse sense that made me think I was using it wrong and started this. Now I'll have to go back.
I suppose everything is fine here. ToC links to closed sections work fine. Articles appear with closed sections for me currently so I guess that works fine as well (silly me was expecting the contrary of that to happen) and I can't really test the third point as I can't access the settings now and I don't have a floating/hidden ToC but last time I remember it worked fine so I guess this is good too.
Some comments on the functions related to the references now that I've had the chance to use them for a while and finally got the quickadd function for them in my homewiki.
Autofocus: I'm not sure why but Bawl most of the time actually manages to find the correct reference to edit when you press the pencil icon AND then fails to autofocus it. Either the whole edit form is out of focus or the reference itself fails to be focused in it even though it is actually highlighted. I find that surprising as I was expecting the biggest problems to be related to reference locating given that Bawl has been more or less consistent on autofocusing matters. Another minor problem in the same topic is that at the moment the functionality to highlight different references in the same edit form just by clicking the specific pencil icons exists BUT currently it's a bit awkward to easily put that into use because of where the references are and where the editing screen is. I feel like autofocus may be used to alleviate this issue but I'm not sure how or where exactly.
Quick addition in the link form: How does that work exactly? How does it decide what kind of cite template to use? What does the pulsating button mean? If a link is put and it's not allowed to be entered, the whole form is forever blocked until closed. Even if closed, the pulsating effect keeps occurring until refreshed. Can it group the same references under the same name (and thus utilize only the name in calling them, not the whole cite template with parameters) if they get put in the same edit? Can it group existing references in a section that is open for editing? What exactly does web2cit mean? I believe it should be lowered a bit and italicized.
Parameter highlighting: You may remember that I edit references mostly to fix the citation errors in them. Bawl provides a big upgrade with the highlighting but it currently can't provide any help in the parameter that is needed to be fixed. I was wondering if that could be possible to be done utilizing regex. The way I'm picturing this is for Bawl to "read" the error message and correlate it to a specific parameter in the cite templates and then search for that parameter when displaying the reference and only highlight that and its value. For example, if we have this error message: Check |arxiv= value, Bawl reads that and regex-searches for |arxiv=value in the reference that it is going to display and highlights it. I'm not sure if there is a way for Bawl to parse the messages though.
Bug?: Bawl can't understand references that are not located under the traditional references' section.
Klein Muçi, 1. Odd, I made it better I think. 2. Citemap. Pulsating button means it's waiting for the m:Web2Cit service which can take quite a while. Disagree on the italics, can't float to bottom (and don't think it would be appropriate here anyway), no grouping. 3. Not sure the errors are standardized in any way, I wouldn't expect it as they are probably generated by templates. 4. Link? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 15:20, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz, testing this function here, the missing autofocus still occurs. I do my ref-tests there because it has a lot of them. Maybe size is impacting the expected performance somehow? I wanted to test if this If a link is put and it's not allowed to be entered, the whole form is forever blocked until closed. was still true but I've forgotten how to actually insert refs with Factotum. :P It's becoming comically hard for me now to provide a link (not finding any articles) but you know the literature or notes sections some articles have? Above the references section. That's where Factotum doesn't fire up. @Trappist the monk, can you provide any insight here whatsoever for error messages and the correlated parameters? Just for context: Bawl adds edit links beside every reference the click of which opens the section in which the reference is located for editing and autofocuses the already highlighted reference. — Klein Muçi (talk) 10:22, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
Doubtful because I don't have a clear idea about what this tool does. cs1|2 error messages are not available in wikitext. If the tool can read the html source then it can find the error messages in <span>...</span> tags following the reference's metadata. Each error message has a css class: either cs1-hidden-error or cs1-visible-error (maintenance messages have class cs1-maint). For example, {{cite web}} requires |url= as does |access-date= so this template will emit error messages:
'"`UNIQ--templatestyles-00000345-QINU`"'<citeclass="citation web cs1">"Title".</cite><spantitle="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=unknown&rft.btitle=Title&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AUser+talk%3AAlexis+Jazz%2FFactotum%2FArchives%2F2022"class="Z3988"></span><spanclass="cs1-visible-error citation-comment"><codeclass="cs1-code">{{[[Template:cite web|cite web]]}}</code>: </span><spanclass="cs1-visible-error citation-comment"><codeclass="cs1-code">|access-date=</code> requires <codeclass="cs1-code">|url=</code> ([[Help:CS1 errors#accessdate_missing_url|help]])</span>; <spanclass="cs1-visible-error citation-comment">Missing or empty <codeclass="cs1-code">|url=</code> ([[Help:CS1 errors#cite_web_url|help]])</span>
Because error messages are written to be read by humans there is additional html markup in the messages that may be a pain for machines to read. All emitted error messages are described at Help:CS1 errors.
@Trappist the monk, thank you for the detailed answer. Apparently you have. I was waiting for Alexis to reply to it. Alexis Jazz, when a parameter is mentioned it's often because it's missing. This is a strong point. Depending on how much we trusted Factotum to help on ref-fix issues, we could argue that in those cases it could maybe add that parameter and wait for a value... But considering you say even fixing current parameters is beyond Factotum, I guess that is unthinkable. This is a shame because as you may remember I started using this script with the hope to do just that but being able to quickly edit references is a great improvement and I'm grateful for that. Do we have any idea why it fails on the autofocusing matter so often though? — Klein Muçi (talk) 22:59, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, we could argue that in those cases it could maybe add that parameter and wait for a value Doubt it. I can't read the error message to understand if the parameter value is incorrect or the parameter missing/empty. And as you see above, the message doesn't differentiate between empty and missing. And the parameter could be there, using an alternative parameter name. (like transcripturl / transcript-url) Do we have any idea why it fails on the autofocusing matter so often though? Not yet, works for me, hopefully I'll see it when testing some different platforms/browsers. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 20:11, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I see. Looks like I'll still be on the lookout for yet another tool made specifically for references. I remember one user say on one wishlist that "references should be like breathing for Wikipedia" considering how much it uses them, and yet, they keep being the most frightening thing in all aspects for new users (finding them, creating them, locating them, fixing them, trying to transport them and completely messing up everything when there are groups of references and they only transport a part of the group...). At least Factotum helps in adding and locating them. If I can be of help in any way for the autofocus aspect, tell me. Other than that, I guess you can go on and archive this as there's not much to say anymore I suppose. — Klein Muçi (talk) 08:32, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
You messed up! (I AM ERROR)
Alexis Jazz, you messed up! (possibly) The quote accident just happened again. I double-clicked to get out of ninja mode. Then I opened the section I wanted to reply to and I double-clicked it. It already had a (this time empty but it varies) quote in it.
Replylinkparams:
{"int":2387,"type":"comment","subtype":"legacy","id":"Rummskartoffel:21:29, 26 August 2022 (UTC):2387","pageTitleInt":2254,"origReplyTo":"Rummskartoffel","origTimestamp":"21:29, 26 August 2022 (UTC)","origTimestampTextNode":"21:29, 26 August 2022 (UTC)","seq":0,"pageTitle":"Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)","sectionTitle":"Global login","sectionseq":0}
Alexis Jazz, that's really a shame because I keep getting random quotes EVERY TIME I start typing comments. I think I'll try the video way soon, maybe you can understand something better. — Klein Muçi (talk) 09:30, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
I'm back to Factotum. Still not one single encounter with the quote insertion problem. I'm starting to think this is finally getting fixed. Another less pronounced problems has been introduced though: There are times when you break out of ninja mode by double-clicking and every section is closed. Normally, the section on which you clicked on should be opened. — Klein Muçi (talk) 01:52, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, and the joy was short-lived... The quote problem is back today. :'( Maybe it is related to any of your recent changes? As for that other problem I just mentioned above, it is indeed hard to reproduce because it only happens occasionally for me. That and another one which is even harder to explain: Sometimes when the link of a page has a section anchor and/or a comment locator in it, Factotum stops working. This usually happens when you follow a notification or have just typed a comment. The page reloads for me (I have that option on) and when the "new page comes" with the highlighted comment in ninja mode, 2/3 of the times Factotum will either refuse to load at all or load but you can't use it (you have the big chevron and bubble above but no icons on the page), it basically gets stuck on ninja mode no matter what you do, until you reopen the page without the "extra anchors" in its links. — Klein Muçi (talk) 10:58, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
And the quote problem is gone again... Even if it will be back, it won't be for every comment I suppose so I can live with this. The other 2 problems happen rarely (well, the second one happens a bit more often but it requires rather specific conditions) and I mostly told you about those just to be aware, maybe you encounter them yourself in the future sometime. Having said that, I believe you can go on and archive this. Finally. — Klein Muçi (talk) 12:33, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, 2/3 of the times Factotum will either refuse to load at all or load but you can't use it Perhaps there's a JS error or warning on the browser console. Check that next time. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 14:33, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I'd like to be able to use emojis. All of them! This is a low priority request of course but it would be nice if traditional combinations like :) -_- <3 (Y) could be automatically converted to their corresponding emoji forms in discussions for easier and more sociable interactions. The way I'm imagining this to go is that there should exist a list somewhere of the said combinations and their corresponding conversions which can be given to Bawl and liberate us once and for all from the currently limited number-wise use of the {{Smiley}} template. The list can be updated every once in a while and could even include non-emoji text images like the *shrug man*, etc. - Klein Muçi (talk) 09:47, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, how emojis are displayed varies wildly from browser to browser. Take https://emojipedia.org/pensive-face/ for example where Mozilla looks satisfied, Docomo is disappointed, Skype is creepy, Twitter and Microsoft are less down than WhatsApp and Apple etc. So whatever you try to convey may look and get interpreted quite different on the other side. Also, the use of unicode emojis is generally frowned upon on Wikimedia. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:59, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
I am aware of all what you write about above, especially the "frowned upon" part, me myself being the person who set up the edit filter against them in almost all namespaces in SqWiki. However I do believe they can be beneficial in the talkspace, helping in adding flavor and nuance easily to discussions. As for the variation that exists between browsers... I believe that's a bit of a "over-serious" detail for my proposal which is more lighthearted in nature and aim: "Just allow me to easily express gratitude with a heart by quickly typing <3 or kindness by :)". If some emojis prove problematic in whatever way and/or for whatever reason, we can just not include those. - Klein Muçi (talk) 15:47, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, "The horror" LOL Maybe I can help, just guide me on what I need to do in a practical sense. I just follow suit and add more emojis and descriptions from a list I must find somewhere? I'm not good on JS so I can't help much on coding itself unfortunately. I can only read with difficulty and understand what some blocks of codes may be about. — Klein Muçi (talk) 16:42, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
['🙏','person with folded hands (to indicate variously sorrow, regret, pleading, praying, bowing, thanking). In most platforms depicted as just the hand, pressed together but not folded (Apple name: "Hands Pressed Together").']
in the same format, i.e.
['emoji','description']
Just make sure all of the lines have a comma after them, except the last one e.g.
Bawl.moduleData.emoji.emojis=[//descriptions copied from [[:Emoticons (Unicode block)]] (CC BY-SA 3.0) which is partially based on https://unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/emoji/emoji-data.txt (https://www.unicode.org/license.txt)['emoji1','description1'],['emoji2','description2'],['emoji3','description3']];
Qwerfjkl, hmm... Thank you! I'll give it another try but I'm starting to feel overloaded by all this scattered around information. I was hoping to have at tops 2 list (one for emojis, one for descriptions) and work with them. But... — Klein Muçi (talk) 09:04, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
┌───────────────────────────┘ Klein Muçi, just copy pasting, that's all there's to it.. I added code for emoji replacement. Only entered the RegExp for smile, wink and grin but you can extrapolate from there. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 14:19, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I fully understand what you mean but as funny as it may seem, having the information scattered around in different pages made it too much for me. I didn't know what emojis were already included and what to include after as there were no universal order somewhere. Many of them had no descriptions and some of them had different forms (?)... Also, although this may be still useful on its own, this wasn't what I was looking forward in my request. If I've understood it correctly, this would create a shelf of emojis sitting somewhere below of which you could choose from like you do with templated answers. That looks like an overkill. We don't want the old, old forum days. I was hoping only to extend the current capabilities of the smiley template. More BBCode that gets automatically converted to more emojis. For example typing B-) or 8-) and getting 😎, like we discussed some days ago. — Klein Muçi (talk) 23:15, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, that's what the replacement code does.. convert :-D to 😀. For the BBCode thing, the {{smiley}} template varies a lot across projects, that's why so few smileys are converted. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 20:19, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, yes but that was exactly what I was saying: Ditch the dependency to the smiley template, create an internal list/library of emojis for Factotum and let it work like it currently does (given that the said internal library would have more emojis than {{smiley}} has). There is no need to have that list show up somewhere (at least not all the time) or have dependencies on external templates. — Klein Muçi (talk) 09:01, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, sabotaging the shelf would be trivial. Just fork it. Quickest way to learn programming: just do it. Unicode emojis are generally not done on Wikimedia and seeing any Factotum use outside Wikimedia is nothing but a dream currently. My interest here is rather limited. I provided a proof of concept and made it public domain, if someone cares they can fork it. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:24, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, well, if I can make myself work with this in the future, I'll know where to start. Meanwhile I've discovered a random bug in this topic. You can't convert 2 emojis in a row. The replacement code chokes on the second one, apparently thinking no living being ever can put 1 emoji on Wikimedia, let alone 2 in a row and stops converting them. You can't even trick it by putting something else in the middle. As soon as you delete the proxy delimiter, the second emoji gets removed immediately. — Klein Muçi (talk) 14:53, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, can't reproduce. Found a bug when the module was combined with live preview, but nothing like you described. And converting back? At least in the source editor that should just be impossible. In VisualLight or CodeMirror, maybe. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 15:53, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, live preview doesn't work with VL for me apparently. This however is another thing. What I'm talking about is simple. Try typing :-) 2 times in a row anywhere and see what happens. If nothing happens for you, I'll go the screenshot way. — Klein Muçi (talk) 17:46, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
Also, again not related, but when switching between editors back and forth from VL you'll sometimes get a nonbreaking space character inserted "automatically" but I'm not sure what exactly causes it. — Klein Muçi (talk) 17:50, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, Try typing :-) 2 times in a row anywhere and see what happens. Pretty sure when I typed :-):-):-):-):-) I got six smileys. Alexis Jazz, live preview doesn't work with VL for me apparently. Works for nobody with VisualLight. The combination proved highly toxic so live preview halts when VisualLight is enabled. But the icon doesn't reflect that atm I think. Also, again not related, but when switching between editors back and forth from VL you'll sometimes get a nonbreaking space character inserted "automatically" but I'm not sure what exactly causes it. I sometimes notice odd stuff when switching too, but without reproduction steps it's too complicated to hunt down whichever bug(s) cause that. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:03, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
This is what happens for me with the live preview. 1 gets rendered, 1 doesn't, cycle repeats ad infinitum. I don't know what exactly happens if I try to post them. Maybe it's a problem only related to the preview instead of the conversion itself. - Klein Muçi (talk) 21:35, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
┌───────────────────────────┘ Klein Muçi, looks like {{smiley}} inserted by BBCode replacement, not the Emoji-inator. The BBCode has a more strict regular expression to avoid false positives which also tests the character before and after. As the character after for the first smiley is the same as the character before for the second smiley it won't match the second smiley. In the next update this should be fixed. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 07:23, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
I've been thinking about the name of this project. Originally it was a replacement for User:Enterprisey/reply-link. It's quite a bit more than that now, so bawl doesn't quite describe it anymore. In addition, some people misread it as "brawl", a more common word. My current thinking is to name it "Jack", in reference to Jack of all trades. Any comment? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 11:48, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
I'd be cool with the idea of name changing but Jack looks a way too common term. I also immediately think of the CD gadget personally but that's most likely coming from our many discussions we've been doing lately about it. - Klein Muçi (talk) 14:46, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I'm a fan of Latin but that word reminds me of factories a lot, which is more on the "do" side than "write/speak/reply". If you'd enjoy something rather exotic, what would you think of Fol? Or too close to Folly? — Klein Muçi (talk) 23:33, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, too close to folly/folder and it's just a synonym for "bawl". In English, Factotum just reminds me of fact and totem which are okay associations. I wouldn't consider "factory" a bad association either. Consider the term "idea factory" which is often used for environments that allow ideas to be turned into something more tangible. Bawl or speak doesn't cover fixing or adding references, moving sections, fixing typos, section reversal, topic subscription, etc etc. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 14:09, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, hmm... Actually, as I've said in another comment, I've yet to utilize Bawl a lot out of the talkspace (apart from the occasional ref-fixing) so I hadn't see it in that POV. I was specifically looking for a Bawl synonym. This will require more creative thinking. — Klein Muçi (talk) 15:14, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, I may just go with Factotum, but I can wait a few days I guess in case a better suggestion comes along. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 16:03, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz, regarding modules I assume I just have to replace Bawl with Factotum, except in the case of Bawl.moduleData. Does BawlModules become FactotumModules as well? — Qwerfjkltalk20:32, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
Now it is usable and I'm back to using Factotum for replies. Some problems still persist though. The circle-x button does nothing for me and the other button interferes with the preview when clicked as seen in the screenshot. What are these 2 buttons supposed to do precisely? Klein Muçi (talk) 01:19, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, so, correct me if I'm wrong but we basically have removed the button for the preview and exchanged it with the circular button and the chevron decides the position of this preview, no? No wonder that button does nothing for me given that I have live preview always on. What should its function be in this case? Also I believe for users such as me who have their live preview on top instead of on the bottom, the chevron should be rotated in both positions to match the position of the preview box. Assuming the bottom line of the chevron symbolizes the location of the preview box. — Klein Muçi (talk) 08:20, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
This is what the side preview looks for me in different editors. As you can see, if line height matching is an aim at its own, we fail that aim almost all the time. If it isn't, I still think something should be done for the VL editor as the name part looks rather odd (maybe it was just a coincidence). - Klein Muçi (talk) 08:58, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, if line height matching is an aim Wouldn't make sense and too difficult. something should be done for the VL editor Done DT reply links are back in the live preview pushed back into the closet — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 10:48, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, minorish problem: Even though the circular toggle does nothing for me currently, it takes a bit of time to change between its states (crossed/uncrossed), which made me feel the same as I would feel in the past with the subscribe bell changing states. Maybe it should receive the same treatment? — Klein Muçi (talk) 11:05, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, Even though the circular toggle does nothing for me currently It doesn't disable live preview? That would be a bug. Not one I can reproduce, though. No clue why it takes time for you, it's instant for me. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 14:35, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, are you absolutely sure about that? You click it, cross goes away (leaving just the circle), you type something and the preview updates automatically? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 16:18, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
┌───────────────────────────┘ Alexis Jazz, oh no. The preview stops updating when you do that only to regain its function when you click it again. But how would I or anyone else know that? :P In what scenario would we be using such a function to begin with? The whole thing looks pretty random on my eyes. — Klein Muçi (talk) 17:41, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, try editing Joe Biden with live preview but without smart live preview. (because, yeah, live preview works on articles now..) Or using m:Community Wishlist Survey 2021/Real Time Preview for Wikitext which amounts to the same thing performance-wise. There are plenty of scenarios where one may wish to disable it temporarily. Or enable it temporarily, to quickly see the effects of something. I have it disabled by default (I find it wasteful, my daily driver isn't the fastest machine and it also distracts me), but now I can enable it if I feel the need. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 18:57, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, Assuming the bottom line of the chevron symbolizes the location of the preview box. Chevron points inwards to put the preview side-by-side which will make the preview box smaller, it points outwards to detach which makes it bigger. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 20:23, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, oh I had misunderstood it then. In regard to Mr. President... What exactly did I need to see there? That live preview can slow down the editing process? I tried editing the whole page simultaneously and it was as slow as you can think. Then I tried disabling live preview but truth be told it didn't make much difference. Or maybe it did but for me it was still unworkable. — Klein Muçi (talk) 21:25, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
PS: Is the toggle aligned in height with the chevron? The chevron looks a bit higher but maybe that's an optical illusion because why would you make them not aligned in height... — Klein Muçi (talk) 21:51, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, but for me it was still unworkable Should have been better, but it's hard to guess why. What is "unworkable"? When entering a character in the text input, how long does it take to appear? Initial and manual preview will always be slow (about 10 seconds currently), that's the server you're waiting for. If entering characters without any kind of preview is slow it's something else. Submitting an edit could be slow for various reasons: Wikipedia:Regextypofix (which IIRC you enabled) is known to be quite slow. If there's an issue with BBCode/Markdown replacements those could slow it down. Any custom regular expressions you entered could slow it down. And using the 2010 wikitext editor with CodeMirror, particularly on a device with limited CPU power, would likely be a bad idea. because why would you make them not aligned in height You'd think it would be simple. It's not. (probably because the chevron is rotated) DT subscribe-bell-links are back (in previews? - not sure). back in the closet — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:04, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
What is "unworkable"? When entering a character in the text input, how long does it take to appear? Alexis Jazz, that's what makes it unworkable. It takes around 3 seconds per character and around 6 more seconds for the cursor to start pulsating again, waiting for the next character. Removing live previews or changing the editor type does not seem to make any difference. But I've always thought editing full big pages was an heroic deed, even without Factotum so... — Klein Muçi (talk) 22:53, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I'm confused. I am technically unable to try anything in incognito mode at that article as it won't allow me to type anything because of its protection. You can give me another long page to test on the same manner and I will. As for using the native 2010 wikitext editor, I was hoping to do the tests in the order they were written so given that I failed the first one, I didn't go on with the second. However I tried now. It is still slow but is faster than what I described above (maybe today are both faster though?), it takes around 2-3 seconds in total for the cursor to be ready to type again after typing something. I went ahead and disabled the syntax highlighting and it made a huge difference. The text finally seemed to flow normally and you could edit the page as usually if you so wished. This is kind of a revelation for me as for many years I've just accepted the fact that it is impossible for me to edit any long page fully as a given because of my love for syntax highlighting. Apparently I can just disable that temporarily for an extra speed boost. — Klein Muçi (talk) 15:42, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, I am technically unable to try anything in incognito mode at that article as it won't allow me to type anything because of its protection. Seems like a bug, I don't remember implementing any such feature. Can you check FTT.UITextInput.isDisabled() and FTT.UITextInput.isReadOnly() on the browser console? Is the source text black or gray? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 18:43, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
┌───────────────────────────┘ Alexis Jazz, it's not you. The article is semi-protected. Can't be edited by anonymous users. This page is currently protected so that only extended confirmed users and administrators can edit it. That's what I mean. — Klein Muçi (talk) 18:49, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
Additional information: Hi Alexis! The buttons to disable live preview and put the preview beside text are now overlapping with the settings button. For an example, see this screenshot.
@Alexis Jazz: they are no longer over the buttons! However, they now overlap the preview itself, both beside and below. While I think of it, I have another feature request: when I filter the settings, it would be great if the tabs (Load, Interface, etc.) that have no results were hidden. I have said it before, but thank you for Factotum (or maybe this is the first time, given that I have only thanked you for Bawl?). It makes my wikilife so much easier, and I am more than happy to be a guinea pig for this project.HouseBlastertalk00:53, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
HouseBlaster, However, they now overlap the preview itself, both beside and below. Well, they gotta go somewhere.. I was hesitant to reserve a whole bar for them, but what other way is there. Could have made the buttons float (like thumbnails), but that would affect the preview, potentially pushing down a top image/infobox. So it's a bar now. it would be great if the tabs (Load, Interface, etc.) that have no results were hidden. Done— Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:17, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I was just about to say "if only there was a way to not have that extra "empty" bar on top of every preview box but... What if we add another bar below for better formatting purposes? Maybe the bottom bar could have in itself the signature, aligned somewhere where the 2 icons are above. It would be nicer for the overall picture. ... The added space is enormous for titles in new sections. it would be great if the tabs (Load, Interface, etc.) that have no results were hidden. Can we have a notice of some kind in this scenario? Something typical like: No settings match your search/query — Klein Muçi (talk) 09:35, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
Also... Maybe I've mentioned this in the past but if I haven't, can we Esc-blank the settings filter? I keep pressing Esc to "escape" it (blank it) and instead the whole settings form closes. And when I open it back, the filter is STILL there. — Klein Muçi (talk) 11:15, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, It would be nicer for the overall picture. I don't understand. Draw a mockup maybe, but it doesn't sound right. Showing the signature (which doesn't even exist when editing a full page/section) separately? Bad idea. There's no good solution here. Float: inaccurate preview. Bar: complain about wasted space. Overlay: complain about overlay. Put them above the box: complain about overlap with settings/etc. Put them above with margin: complain about wasted space. Can we have a notice of some kind in this scenario? No, unless there are no results for any section in which case Done. Esc-blank the settings filter? Done— Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 11:41, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz, yes, that's what I meant and it works perfectly. As for the "empty bar" problem... I was playing a bit with page inspection and noticed that things changed for the best if the icons' position was changed from right to the center. Suddenly the "empty bar" "disappeared". - Klein Muçi (talk) 12:22, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, hmm, seems like an optical illusion though as the waste is the same. I made it overlay the preview again but dropped the opacity to 30% so you can reasonably read through it. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 14:27, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, can I vote on this? :P I vote against overlaying. The overall feel of Factotum is very clean, the overlay part feels like a CSS bug. I loved the centered version. It kept that same feel in my eyes. (Although I do understand your liking for wanting to put such icons at the corners.) Maybe @HouseBlaster wants to vote as well? :P — Klein Muçi (talk) 14:39, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
... Noobish question but can't we just make the first line of text not reach the buttons? The moment it would reach them, it goes down 1 line, same as it would if we hit enter. Then it continues normally. — Klein Muçi (talk) 14:57, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
┌───────────────────────────┘ Klein Muçi, ...and it would push down images/infoboxes at the top. can I vote on this? I am a dictator. Says so right on c:User:Alexis Jazz: "DIOS Y LIBERTAD, YOUR BELOVED LEADER, ALEXIS JAZZ". — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 16:00, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
...and it would push down images/infoboxes at the top The horror! I was having the same thoughts about this as the new request by HouseBlaster but it seemed kinda extra to have a toggle for a toggle or have settings specifically made for the position/style of those 2 buttons. Maybe if we can't find a middle ground we all enjoy you can help us CSS-solve our way to libertad? I wish HouseBlaster had said how they felt about "my centered solution". If I've understood your words correctly you weren't specifically against it (but on the other hand you've typed on your summary that you hated the "extra bar" so...) Maybe a middle ground is possible and lies in the literal middle. :P — Klein Muçi (talk) 17:36, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I'd like to be able to change where the buttons to switch to side-by-side and enable/disable live preview in settings. I guess disabling the buttons entirely would also be a valid option, if you do not plan to use the buttons. Thanks! HouseBlastertalk17:03, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, Done, Sdkb posted a span with the mw-editsection class within a comment (bad idea, please use mw-editsection-like instead), Factotum choked on it. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 15:45, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
Finalfinal.ftt (20 September 2022, 01:18)
Alexis Jazz, this will be the final list of issues related to Factotum after a last general test. Most of the issues mentioned here will be things that have been mentioned in the past.
[PERSONAL WISH] - Different watchlist periods for creation and edit. We talked about this and you weren't opposed to it but it never got implemented. This is a feature I'd personally wish to use.
[PERSONAL WISH] - The problem with days' names tickboxes. You fixed all the other similar paradoxical problems beside this one and ever since I don't sleep well at night. :P Please make it so selecting the abbreviated form deselects the full form and vice-versa.
[NEW FEATURE] - In the past we talked about "big previews", previews that allow you to see how your section/comment will be formatted in the whole page when you actually post it. This was deemed a bit courageous at the time but considering that we've introduced a lot of features to the preview functionality, maybe it can be given another thought now.
[BUG] - Ctrl+Alt+P/Up still gets stuck in an infinite loop.
[BUG?] - The text window on the 2010 editor when syntax highlighting is on is way longer than the other 2 editors (or when SH is off). At least it is when replying to comments. Maybe it can't be fixed as many other features which don't currently work with it. I really wish that wasn't the case as that's what I use 90% of the time because of syntax highlighting.
[BUG - REGRESSION] - "Double click edits/replies to comment" is currently broken for me. What happens if you have the setting to edit other's comments on as well in this case?
[PERSONAL WISH] - An option in settings to remove the DT stats only when FTT stats become active. I thought if I ask really nicely maybe it can work. :P
[BUG - REGRESSION] - Both buttons to scroll to new comments are currently broken for me.
[SUGGESTION] - Keyboard shortcuts in settings don't mention the Ctrl+Alt+P/N (Up/Down) combinations. (Although they do mention other combinations.) Maybe that's okay.
[SUGGESTION] - There is currently only 1 unfinished setting in the list which looks rather odd being alone in its state. Maybe it can be removed until finished.
[BUG] - I have Collapse all non-talk page sections by defaultunticked and yet every section of every article appears collapsed.
[BUG - REGRESSION] - Preselecting text and hitting the speech bubble does not produce a quote. (?) This actually is not true everywhere. Ironically, in this page, preselecting text and hitting the speech bubble will produce a quote almost everywhere but in this section here. What is going on?
[BUG] - Creating a new section and immediately trying to post a comment on it confuses Factotum and a notification popup comes up telling you about how the page was changed because a new section has been introduced (the one you just created) and you need to reload the page to see this new section. This happens on all "fast" options except for the "reload page after every action", which is what I've been using because of this problem (even though it is the slowest). - Klein Muçi (talk) 01:18, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, 1. Done 2. Done 3. Newly introduced features don't help with this. Potential to be confusing, making user think they posted their comment when they really haven't. But I think I already said that in a previous discussion. Just forget about this one. 4. Done 5. Done 6. Done, edit always takes precedence over reply (so I wouldn't recommend the combination) 7. Done, DT forced my hand 8. ..not for me 9. todo 10. Done, now hidden behind "Show unfinished features and options that can completely break your experience" option, I want to keep it in case someone else feels like finishing/polishing it which will never happen if I remove it entirely 11. Find an article where this happens and use the "bug?" link in settings to trigger kitty so I can know your current settings and page title. Also, define "collapsed" because maybe it's working fine. 12. Klein Muçi, What is going on? < selected text and pressed speech bubble 13. Done Try to reproduce issues on [47] in a private/incognito window. Try adjusting settings until you can reproduce an issue. Tell me which setting is the culprit. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 02:51, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
[ONGOING] Yay! But I had forgotten the months and relative/actual date tickboxes just above it. :'( They should have the same behavior as well, no? Back to insomnia. :P
Forgotten.
Thank you!
The discrepancy looks smaller but it is still there. It's okay though.
[ONGOING]Edit always takes precedence over reply - We should clarify this in the relevant settings. Also double clicks don't work on lists.
Thank you!
Neither for me anymore. They are fixed.
Okay.
Understandable.
Understandable again. I will deal with this in a separate section with the help of cats.
Yes. Fixed now.
[ONGOING] It does look fixed but it has another problem now. When the re-parse happens you don't get shown the newly added comment in a fast way until you manually reload the page.
Try to reproduce issues on [2] in a private/incognito window. Try adjusting settings until you can reproduce an issue. Tell me which setting is the culprit. I did try to reproduce some of the bugs mentioned here. Nothing stood aside beside the red background when replying. I couldn't have preselected text as quotes though. — Klein Muçi (talk) 09:53, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, 2. Months done. relative/actual date why 6. clarified, lists are too risky 13. ? reproduction steps needed — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 15:25, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz: 2. I thought you couldn't have them active on the same time but apparently you can. All cool. 6. Okay. 13. [ONGOING] I see you've increased the re-parse time by 2 seconds but the problem still persists. Steps to reproduce: Create new section on talk page. Immediately comment on it or create a new subsection. The page will reparse but the newly added comment will be missing. Try adding another one. Maybe this one shows but that one is still missing. Maybe they're both missing or maybe this one is missing while the other one shows now. You'll keep having problems like this until you reload the page manually. — Klein Muçi (talk) 23:01, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, yes. Thank you! This concludes the list. 2 extra entries from the past:
[SUGGESTION] Icons in headers still use different "notations" we have a plus sign (text character) and a pencil icon (visual icon). I still think they should be both characters but maybe even both icons would work. (Maybe a toggle can be made to choose between the 2 different modes.)
[NEW FEATURE] Moving functionality to move in specific sections for example in Wikipedia:ExampleName#SpecificSection. You enjoyed the idea in the past but found it problematic to execute.
I don't feel strongly for any of them. I'm mostly writing them down because I had them in them in the original list I made for finalfinal.ftt. Whatever you choose to do, I'll go on dealing with the mobile problems now. Thank you again! — Klein Muçi (talk) 08:12, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, 1. learn SVG and propose to use something better you uploaded (license PD please) 2. no. Someone could maybe try to make a gadget that allows dragging and dropping section headers to move a section within a page, but there's no reason to put that in Factotum. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 11:56, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, agree. If you (or anyone else reading this) has the time, feel free to take screenshots yourself, you'd be saving me time which I need to debug the thing/write documentation/etc. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 22:41, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
for comparison (going a bit more narrow than this would actually be preferable)Qwerfjkl, thanks! It's a bit wide though, wider than the browser viewport of most users and when rendered as a thumbnail you can't see the elements very well. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 17:16, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
Notifications include a section link, so you're.in roughly the right place before Factotum loads (like DT)
Currently, when I try to edit (fully) protected pages, the submit button just pulsates. It would be nice if it either had a warning, or, preferably but harder, posted an edit request to the talk page with the diff (like this), after the user gives a reason (use summary?)
Qwerfjkl, you were supposed to see a protected warning but it was broken due to a bug. Everything Done except for the edit request stuff. Edit requests aren't standardized across projects and an edit request isn't always supposed to go on the talk page of the page to be edited. There's another problem regarding diffs. Diffs don't work unless mediawiki.diff.styles is loaded. NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh solved that using templatestyles and a copy of mediawiki.diff.styles at User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh/FormattedEditRequest/styles.css. This isn't a scalable solution and it doesn't adjust for the used skin. (compare Vector and Minerva) — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 20:13, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
T318465
Please see this ticket at the Phabricator, AKlapper installed the Ecosia browser and tried re-creating this issue but couldn't get it, I then tried using incognito mode and I didn't have this issue there either. So it's not the browser, it's not the "Advanced mobile mode", and it's not the operating system. The issues I'm experiencing likely happened due to Factotum. I really think that you should probably try to use the "Mobile view" more often, because "mobile editors" live in a completely different universe as "desktop editors". --Donald Trung (talk) 18:48, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
Donald Trung, the problem is there are too many variables. There's not one mobile mode. There's mobile, mobile advanced, mobile "read as wiki page", desktop Minerva, mobile talk page mode and mobile non-talk page mode. On the side of Factotum there are numerous options. Any particular combination could cause problems. So testing is hell. That's what I got you guys for! In this case the core issue is MobileFrontend being a bit nasty when it comes to its native section collapse feature. MF choked on Factotum's discussion activity because Factotum inserts it in the right place. See also phab:T314714. Anyway, I fixed it. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:48, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz:, again, pings haven't worked for me at the English-language Wikipedia for years, but anyhow. It is fixed now. Thank you very much for updating the software, I'm glad to be a beta tester so future users won't face these same issues and the WMF should really unify the underlying code for mobile versions of the MediaWiki software, I have no idea why they insist on making "consumer focused" versions for mobile users in today's day and age. This made sense when mobile devices were weaker, but even people in developing countries have more advanced mobile computers now. --Donald Trung (talk) 19:56, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
Bug report (25 September 2022, 14:02)
Alexis Jazz, I found this issue: Crtl+Alt+P/N gives
Uncaught TypeError: Cannot read properties of undefined (reading 'undefined')
at HTMLDocument.<anonymous> (<anonymous>:848:61)
at HTMLDocument dispatch (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init%7Cjquery%2Coojs-ui-core%7Cjquery.ui&skin=vector-2022&version=r4ndc:364:260)
at elemData handle (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init%7Cjquery%2Coojs-ui-core%7Cjquery.ui&skin=vector-2022&version=r4ndc:360:877) — Qwerfjkltalk14:02, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, on what page? Collapsible sections enabled? Reproducible when Factotum is disabled? (try adding ?disableftt=1 to the URL) — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 15:52, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, Factotum has no shortcut that involves T. (maybe on a non-qwerty layout, not sure, but your username suggests you use qwerty or maybe qwertz) I suggest filing a Phabricator task. I recently noticed that closing the new topic form from DiscussionTools in Vector-2022 using the "escape" key broke the ability to scroll the page using arrow keys/pageup/pagedown. (while pressing the cancel button to do the same thing didn't break anything) I didn't report that as I couldn't reproduce it in a "clean" environment and I couldn't isolate what caused it. But this might indicate some issue with DT and keyboard shortcuts. Your issue could be completely unrelated though. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 16:14, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I found this issue: The diff number is relative, not absolute. You edit an existing post and add 4 characters. You hit the "show changes" button. Your diff gets previewed and a +4 number gets shown below. You don't save but instead remove those 4 added characters and click the same button again. The changes get previewed and this time the number reads -4. It should actually be 0 or nonexistent. - Klein Muçi (talk) 09:19, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
So... Go to the article, all sections are opened, click somewhere to break out of ninja mode, all sections are now closed. I just want them to keep being opened.
Replylinkparams:
{"int":41,"id":"heading-41","type":"heading","subtype":"edit","pageTitleInt":41,"origReplyTo":"","pageTitle":"Harry Potter","sectionTitle":"Lidhje të jashtme","sectionseq":0}
Alexis Jazz, it is indeed done but I'm a bit confused. Is all this related to the Collapse all non-talk page sections by default setting? Also what happens with other namespaces beside the mainspace and the talkspace? — Klein Muçi (talk) 22:48, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, "Automatically collapse sections that contain no new comments since your last visit" wasn't restricted to talk pages and articles never contain new comments because they're articles so all their sections would collapse. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 23:15, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, so what happens if I tick the Collapse all non-talk page sections by default setting? (Apparently they get collapsed. Mystery solved.) Also I'm seeing help pages and other similar namespaces don't get the collapse links at their sections. Is that intended? — Klein Muçi (talk) 23:17, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, "Automatically collapse sections that contain no new comments" wasn't supposed to activate on non-talk pages. Help pages are non-talk pages, if you have enabled "Collapsible sections on non-talk pages" they should get collapse chevrons provided they have at least two H1 or two H2 sections. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 00:52, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
I just wanted to reinforce what might already be a known fact that you are under no deadline pressure whatsoever to act according to the reports I've made on Bawl. I just saw the potential Bawl had in what it could do after you showed it to me and wanted to help somehow. I've tested everything I could (beside actually using it for some real replying, funny enough) and I provided reports in real time at you. This was just to have them noted somewhere and it doesn't mean I expect any swift answers in any of them, although you've been pretty fast in responding so far. Take your time and use my reports just as potential big to do lists. At the moment of speaking, as I wrote, I've tested everything I could and most likely there won't be a lot more new posts (or any) until I test the actual reply formatting/post creation in action which I believe won't happen for some days. In the meantime, I'll be ready to reply on any comment you may make on those reports.
Klein Muçi, thank you. Actually there is a deadline. I promised myself a big reward for getting this project to the finish line, but that reward may not be available forever. Thanks for all the reports, hopefully I can get through them quickly. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 16:50, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
I started testing around a bit the last remaining part: How Bawl actually works. It appears to work fine on the mainspace, other namespaces have some problems which I've mentioned in my reports so that shouldn't be a part of this discussion. I also tried fixing references with it, which is what got me into Bawl to begin with. Given that I know that theoretically there are cases in which Bawl can't help you no matter how hard it tries, I'm confused as to wether report this as a bug or not. Can you try editing some of the references in this article (maybe the ones that have problems) and see how Bawls behaves and tell me if that's normal or not? It never autofocuses anything (but it did in some other articles). Also try scrolling around in the article and in the references, back and forth and see how the general autofocus feature works when you open a ref for editing, when you esc-close it or when you try to open another ref for editing while having opened one and not having done anything on it.
Finally, in regard to discussions, I have no idea how Bawl actually behaves in certain cases. How good is it in handling subthreads? Can I reply to an "old" comment in the middle of the discussion and have my answer appear right below it (in the middle of the discussion)? I know it provides automatic outdenting but what happens if I also use the {{outdent}} template in an answer? I want to have some basic information before actually testing it in a real conversation. Answer this whenever you find some free extra time. Regards! - Klein Muçi (talk) 23:30, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
... Also, I can't really tell why but I feel anxious about the blue Send button every time I see it. Maybe it's because in Bawl it is in plain sight all the time and it makes me worry that I might click it accidently prematurely. In DT you need to scroll to get to it and it is actually a bit far from the text form so...
I was wondering if something can be done about it. Maybe an opt-in option to move it to a similar position with DT? Maybe plain moving it? Maybe a confirmation pop-up after clicking it? Maybe a settable delay time for message aborting? - Klein Muçi (talk) 00:08, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, settings, interface, "Put buttons on the wrong side like DiscussionTools". (the option was there all along) Or put something like #BawlMainButtonBar {margin-top:3em} in Special:MyPage/common.css. have my answer appear right below it Yes. On https://commons.wikimedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/ Bawl is available as a gadget, if you need to test. what happens if I also use the {{outdent}} template It'll look stupid because Bawl can't tell the difference between for example {{approved}} and {{outdent}}. Don't do it. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 00:44, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
If buttons on the wrong side, can the 4 icons at their side (magnifying glass, warning sign, inequality signs, cog) be put below them, at the same level as the text about the licence? I feel like it would feel nicer. But I can't try it before to really tell (not that good with CSS editing) so you decide. - Klein Muçi (talk) 09:57, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, possibly, but do note I kinda expect users to disable the "annoy me with the ToS" option sooner or later. (I'll improve the description of that setting) For legal reasons it's enabled by default. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 10:01, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
Ah! So that's what ToS means. Okay, yes, makes sense. I tried it now. I still have that vague idea of those 4 options being below as more "rare and important" but I also understand the appeal at having everything in 1 single line. - Klein Muçi (talk) 10:16, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
Do I get notified with emails about discussions I'm subscribed to with Bawl?
Also, when replying to a comment that it is in the middle of the conversation, wouldn't it be better if the text form would appear right below the said comment you're replying to as opposed to in the bottom of the whole discussion? - Klein Muçi (talk) 11:58, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, Do I get notified with emails about discussions I'm subscribed to with Bawl? Not technically possible. wouldn't it be better if the text form would appear Form appears where your comment will go. (unless it bugs out) — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:06, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
┌──────────────────────────────┘ Klein Muçi, looks like I was wrong. I thought you couldn't email yourself, but apparently you can. So it is technically possible. There is no relation or interaction between subscriptions from DT and Bawl. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:23, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
Yes, just tried it. So basically the subject and body could be styled how you'd want. The footer is the only part that would seem a bit off if it included your username but maybe a Bawl account can be opened and... somehow... make it work so it reads the Bawl name instead? Even though it still would read "user 'Bawl'".
Klein Muçi, if a "Bawl" account was created (Bawl already exists btw) you couldn't access it. You could mail notifications to such an account (and enable carbon copy so you are notified as well) but it seems a bit silly. The setting in Special:Preferences is "Allow other users to email me", but I tried it and when disabled you can't mail yourself anymore either. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 15:40, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, btw, as Bawl works fully client-side, you wouldn't receive a mail instantly. Bawl can't search for new comments if your computer is turned off. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 15:52, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
Yeah, good thing to keep in mind. I keep forgetting that detail. I still have my watchlist emails so it's not that bad from that aspect. - Klein Muçi (talk) 15:59, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
I just finished testing Bawl in action as I said I would. Unless I can think of even more tests to do, this concludes what I had planned since when I started testing it out some days ago. Hopefully I won't have to annoy you a lot anymore after this. I'll be active on replies. Take care! :) - Klein Muçi (talk) 16:26, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
If you're editing something with Bawl and refresh the page, nothing will stop you from doing that.
If you're editing something with Bawl and duplicate the page in a new tab, the form won't auto-open and auto-load your text.
Are these normal, to be expected behaviors?
Also, I'm assuming, nothing special happens if you have the same page opened in different tabs (or windows) and try to start Bawl-editing each one of them? - Klein Muçi (talk) 23:19, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
PS: Is the Settings' filter broken? I can't really understand how it works. I write something, I get the whole list of settings, even when what I wrote is an exact match of one of them. - Klein Muçi (talk) 23:41, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
┌──────────────────────────────┘ Klein Muçi, If you're editing something with Bawl and refresh the page, nothing will stop you from doing that. Except for the warning that asks if you are sure you want to leave the page, which is enabled by default. If you're editing something with Bawl and duplicate the page in a new tab, the form won't auto-open and auto-load your text. Tab duplication is a browser feature, Bawl has no business interfering with that or even trying to detect it. This is true for any script. and try to start Bawl-editing each one of them? I wouldn't expect anything special to happen. Input recovery could get confused I suppose if you edit the exact same thing, but provided you just submit or cancel your edit in each window that won't matter. I get the whole list of settings, even when what I wrote is an exact match of one of them. It filters by what you enter. Search for "collap" and you see settings related to collapsing things. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 00:38, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
I get no warning prior to refreshing. It just refreshes.
Klein Muçi, I get no warning prior to refreshing. It just refreshes. Do you have at least 30 characters entered? Did you disable "Warn before leaving the page with an entered comment" in the settings? I search for "collap" and I get, again, the whole list of settings. How about now? Uhm... Did there use to be a diff button? Where? Not when posting a comment. Yes when editing a comment, section or page. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 18:01, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
Ah! At least 30 characters! I didn't know that limit existed. Yes, it works as intended now.
The filter acts a bit strange in regard to option headers though. If you search for something it will appear as everything you're looking for is located under that option header you were when you started searching, usually the first one, "Load". If you start switching between them, there are some that will appear empty ("normal" behavior, when you think about it). Also there is no easy way to know under which header is a certain setting located after finding it through the filter other than clicking all headers one by one manually while having the filter on. - Klein Muçi (talk) 18:17, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
Perfect! I'm just a bit confused about what exactly is going on on the background. It looks like there are hidden variables at play because when I searched for the word "Advanced" (I was trying to see if headers themselves were included in searches or not), I got the option: "Show expert settings", which doesn't include the word "Advanced" at all. Then I searched for "Load" and I got "Live preview". What's going on? — Klein Muçi (talk) 23:41, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
2 more issues:
Only now I was made aware that the autosuggest feature in mentioning doesn't work with names that aren't participants in the discussion that the reply is part of. Now I understand even better what you meant when we were talking about introducing it in summaries but why is that a thing? I thought the participants were autosuggested first but I could go on and basically get suggestions for the names of all users possible if I wished. That's how DT works. How would I call someone to be part in a discussion if that feature only works for participants?
Selecting the live preview text behaves strangely: It allows you to extend the selection far outside the preview box. It shouldn't.
Klein Muçi, the filter also considers children and always shows their parents. "Improve response time and reduce server load" is a child of the live preview option. Every expert option is technically (they toggle the same way) a child of "Show expert settings", so searching for any expert setting also returns "Show expert settings". I'm not sure if I want to add an exception for this, it doesn't really hurt. I was trying to see if headers themselves were included in searches or not Very good question. It was working as intended so I didn't even think about it. Turns out they are excluded because only FieldLayout elements are being processed and the headers are just plain LabelWidgets. I thought the participants were autosuggested first but I could go on and basically get suggestions for the names of all users possible if I wished. That's how DT works. How would I call someone to be part in a discussion if that feature only works for participants? That's funny, I hadn't even quite noticed that. When you first open the mention menu in DT it shows the participants of the current discussion, same as Bawl. But when you start typing it'll offer suggestions from all possible users. Usernames don't always match what you visually see in signatures and vandals create users with names similar to existing users all the time, but still, it could be useful sometimes. Selecting the live preview text behaves strangely: It allows you to extend the selection far outside the preview box. I don't understand. Screenshot? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 16:45, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
Oh, I see. No, it's pretty fine as it is. I was just curious. As for the mentioning feature... Yes, exactly. That's what I've meant all this time with "auto-mentioning in summaries". For example, you mention my and others' usernames all the time in the summaries in Bawl's code. With that feature you would just put "@Klein Mu..." and it would do the job for you. In administrative duties there are many occasions where you need to mention other people in summaries. Selecting outside the preview box - Explanation: Write some text somewhere with Bawl and if you have Live preview on, you'll get it previewed in a box above your text form (if you have that option on). With your cursor try selecting the text in it (in the preview box). Start from the bottom and when you reach the top of the box keep going up, you'll see that you are able to extend your selection outside the box and keep selecting whatever comes above it. What should happen instead? You shouldn't be able to select anything outside the box. For a comparison, go at the text form in Bawl, write something and try selecting it. Start from the bottom and continue all the way up, outside the text form. You'll notice that no matter how high you go the selection won't extend outside it. This behavior happens everywhere there are forms of the sort. You'll get the same thing with the title form, the summary one... The preview box currently acts as a "pseudo-form" but should instead work as a real form and not allow text selection outside it. I can go on with a screenshot after this comment if it's not yet clear. — Klein Muçi (talk) 17:30, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, you can now mention anyone and also from the summary. The preview is not a box and isn't a "pseudo-form". It's just not a form. You can't interact with it, the script never reads its contents. you can't paste to it, there is no reason to copy from it. Wikitext 2010 editor preview is no different. The same problem with selection happens with the "Return to Bawl" autofocus links. Now you can't select them anymore. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 02:25, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
Okay then. The behavior with auto-mentioning appears a bit weird though. First of all, wikilinks are allowed in summaries so the link-form should be able to add those as well. These are useful in cases where you're giving instructions on reverts and rollbacks, for example: @Someone, read WP:SOMETHING or Reverted as per WP:OTHERTHING. Secondly, the way it works appears a bit confusing for a new user with Bawl: A form gets opened suddenly somewhere out of the text form and its placeholder grey text never reads anything about mentioning or users in general, only saying "External URL or article title". With DT, the you get a dropdown menu precisely where the @ character is located and the form reads "Find user:" . Also, now that we have this functionality (coupled with the quick-thank, templated answers and comment editing it's all I've ever wanted from talk pages, thank you) doesn't it feel a bit redundant having the "Drop-down menu to add user mentions" option? Not to mention that it will be a bit confusing because you'll be able to add users in completely different places (from the @-form and from the link-form). — Klein Muçi (talk) 10:18, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
When comment editing by doubleclicking, the autofocus feature may be broken as well. Try doubleclicking your comments and see what happens. — Klein Muçi (talk) 11:02, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
Small corrections and features: The tooltip you get after you thanked someone needs a capital T; The tooltip for the contributors still makes use of the word "participants". Maybe you want to change that; The mw.notify about settings and refreshing could serve as a refresh button if clicked; You selected a word, you slide the word down on the text form and it gets pasted there. Could it be possible that Bawl understands this action as quoting and act the same as you do when you have selected a word before clicking the speech bubble and put it in a {{tq}} template? If you have DT on, and most people do, including me, ninja mode basically leaves you on their hands while active. You can interact with their reply buttons. Also given that Bawl is not active per se during that time, if you don't break the mode first, not-so-expected things can happen, like interacting with an inputbox and actually getting the old native workflow instead of the Bawl one. I believe these are all intended but I thought you should be aware anyway. — Klein Muçi (talk) 22:13, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
PS: Can you archive some of the old completed discussions in the /Bawl subpage? It would make interaction with the ones that are still active easier. — Klein Muçi (talk) 22:26, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, First of all, wikilinks are allowed in summaries so the link-form should be able to add those as well. Now works with the option to open the link form when entering [[. Beyond that, I'm not sure I can determine reliably which input was last active. its placeholder grey text never reads anything about mentioning or users in general, It does now. you get a dropdown menu precisely where the @ character is located I'm not actually sure how to achieve that. doesn't it feel a bit redundant having the "Drop-down menu to add user mentions" option? Pressing the @ might be cumbersome on some devices and I'm not sure it currently works in all editors. in completely different places (from the @-form and from the link-form) @ opens the link form now. Also, italic formatting is broken Italic had more safeguards, in this case it didn't trigger because of your double quotes. As text is escaped in different ways now I've enabled italic again when next to single/double quotes. When comment editing by doubleclicking, the autofocus feature may be broken as well. What happened? Works for me so probably depends on settings. The tooltip you get after you thanked someone needs a capital T; Done The tooltip for the contributors still makes use of the word "participants" Done The mw.notify about settings and refreshing could serve as a refresh button if clicked; Done You selected a word, you slide the word down on the text form and it gets pasted there. Could it be possible that Bawl understands this action as quoting Done (I'm using it now.. handy) I believe these are all intended Yep. PS: Can you archive some of the old completed discussions in the /Bawl subpage? I occasionally do that, but you know, time. If you could make a note in discussions you started that you consider answered that you consider them answered, that would help. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 05:08, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
Placeholder gray text for user mentioning indeed now exists but given that it is hijacking the link form, if you try to mention a user, stop, try to insert a link, either by double square brackets or by clicking the link form, it will forever read "User's name";
I liked the change with the @ icon and function. Function wise though it still may appear a bit confusing for some users. I believe the link form utility is growing in size and importance and soon a "complete redesign" may be needed to accommodate for its needs. It currently support (inter)wikilinks, external links, user mentioning and page categorizing and for some time it supported reference adding and preformatting too (I haven't seen that option anymore). The list grows even more if we include the sharing functions it provides which come from clicking an identic icon (but which is another thing): Links, permalinks and difflinks. (Is there a way to share comment links instead of difflinks?) Just to provide a richer picture of what I'm describing I'm adding some random "food for thought": Maybe we can think of adding template transclusion and substitution in the future, a list of magic words, parser functions... ALL these make reconceptualizing the link form utility as a whole an ever-increasing need. It should have "its own space" and be "broken down in sections". Its icon currently is also the only one differing in appearance with the other icons, its 3D form making it appear blander when compared with the other dark 2D icons.
The autofocus bug appears to be pretty random. I was trying yesterday to trigger it constantly but I have no idea what's going on. Sometimes it sends you on the top of the page, sometimes it sends you on a random section you may or may not have interacted previously, sometimes it opens the editing/replying form but it again sends you away...
The mw.notify message does indeed have a refresh link now but as it currently is, it's a bit confusing. The cursor changes from an arrow to a hand as soon as you enter it, meaning a function can happen if you click it. But actually nothing happens if you do. You need to click the blue link for that to happen. I believe that's not needed, the message itself can be clicked and used as a refresh button. The reason I say this is because this is already happening. If you log out of Wikipedia and then log back in, if you go to another project, let's say, Commons, you'll get an identic message saying something like: You had logged out, click me to reload this page and get back your settings.
For me, currently, at this message I'm typing, slide-quoting doesn't work. I've tried sliding different words from your message above in different complexity aspects and none get rendered as a quote. I tried sliding the word done from a template, tried sliding my already quoted message, a combined multiline comment and a single plain word from you but nothing ever came quoted here. Maybe in other places it will work.
I've tried multiple times utilizing slide-quoting. It never works. Also I see no @ icon in your talkpage for some reason which is strange. — Klein Muçi (talk) 11:17, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
Some other minor bugs:
Autosuggestion shouldn't suggest your username when doing the first immediate suggestions;
If you ignore the immediate suggestions and start typing and then delete everything, you don't get them back, instead you get the full list of users rolling from A. You should get them back;
Link and mention detections are SO sensitive. There's no way to escape them. You type the taboo symbols? You get transported on the link insertion form. You copy-paste the taboo symbols? You get transported on the link insertion form. You delete backwards and it's time to delete the taboo symbols? Back to the link form you're going, bit... Bit of an extreme situation, don't you think?
Also everything that gets added through forms can't be deleted with Ctrl+Z but you've already told me there's no way to fix that because it doesn't depend on Bawl. They actually don't be detected at all as text. You can have a comment full of links but you will lose everything without a warning if you press Escape. This was good for the first automatic initial user mentioning in replies but it becomes problematic in other scenarios. — Klein Muçi (talk) 11:44, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
A positive remark is that I don't know why exactly but Bawl has been working pretty fast for me recently. The first days I opted in the extra care about timestamps performance was terrible. You typed so slowly and the text was extra delayed when being presented in the live preview feature. Now there is still some delay between the text and the preview but the delay between in typing is almost gone (even though you can still notice it a bit). I was wondering if whatever you did you could do more of it (LOL). — Klein Muçi (talk) 11:48, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
Would it be possible to have the names of the contributors shown on hover if it's not a long list? Something like "User1, User2, User3 and XX other users". Currently that's the only part of stats that's "locked behind a click". I use that feature in discerning discussions from each other in pages where titles are similar and basically I have to go and click on each one of them, one by one. — Klein Muçi (talk) 22:33, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, it will forever read "User's name"; Done and for some time it supported reference adding and preformatting too (I haven't seen that option anymore) Never went away, but only supported on the wikis listed on d:Q112131235. I just created the citemap for sqwiki. if we include the sharing functions it provides which come from clicking an identic icon That's a completely unrelated form. Is there a way to share comment links instead of difflinks? If the comment has a locator (comment made with Bawl), yes. Otherwise no as plain signatures don't provide any anchor. Sure, DT inserts anchors, but so does Bawl and so does ConvenientDiscussions and none of those should be shared publicly. Using DT's anchors because DT is currently loaded by default just results in vendor lock-in. Its icon currently is Its icon has a LONG history of many revisions. Drawing a link icon is HARD. The autofocus bug appears to be pretty random. Hard to investigate. But actually nothing happens if you do. It goes away without delay, that's what it does. You had logged out, click me to reload this page and get back your settings. In that case that's almost certainly what you want. Doesn't apply here. Various settings apply without reload and you may be fine continuing to use/read the page with the old settings anyway. For me, currently, at this message I'm typing, slide-quoting doesn't work. Turns out this is browser-specific. I added support for Chrome, but other browsers may still not work. Also I see no @ icon in your talkpage for some reason which is strange. Done, was broken in every last section and this is currently the last section of this page. Autosuggestion shouldn't suggest your username when doing the first immediate suggestions; Done instead you get the full list of users rolling from A. You should get them back; Done, depended on the speed at which you pressed backspace. If you removed the last character while the API call for autocompletion was still in transit it would overwrite the suggestions once it came back. Race condition. Bit of an extreme situation, don't you think? Done They actually don't be detected at all as text. You can have a comment full of links but you will lose everything without a warning if you press Escape. Can't reproduce. The first days I opted in the extra care about timestamps performance was terrible. You typed so slowly and the text was extra delayed when being presented in the live preview feature. The timestamp boundary and signature detection rate only affect page load time, in other words, the time before reply links/icons appear. Live preview is delayed everywhere. DT, all big social media platforms.. everywhere except, most of the time, Bawl. Now there is still some delay between the text and the preview but the delay between in typing is almost gone (even though you can still notice it a bit). I was wondering if whatever you did you could do more of it (LOL). This is the "Improve response time and reduce server load" option below the live preview option at work. Maybe I should've tried patenting that, get filthy rich, lol. I kinda expect the big players to notice my trick eventually and implement it for themselves, or discover the same trick independently. Would it be possible to have the names of the contributors shown on hover if it's not a long list? Done— Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 16:03, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
If the comment has a locator (comment made with Bawl), yes. How exactly? Done, was broken in every last section and this is currently the last section of this page. Indeed. Now it's still missing on sections which have no signatures though such as new Tech News ones, etc. I believe it should be there, for consistency and practical reasons. Can't reproduce. Strange. Try adding many links in a comment only through the link form without having pressed any key whatsoever before. Then press escape. They should get removed. Some suggestions and possible bugs:
Quote-dragging doesn't work on multilines. I guess that is intentional but I thought I'd say.
The mention and link forms can get activated again (refreshed) even if they're already active or have text in them, if you just press the needed symbols. Is that intentional?
Random: I was trying to temporarily switch back my buttons on the other side. Searched for "wrong" on the filter but the setting never showed up. Tried it many times. Manually I was able to find it again with the same name. What is going on?
I noticed that the tooltip contributors' list doesn't truncate even on +20 names. That's very good news for me but I was wondering if it had any limit whatsoever.
What happens if you activate an edit filter with Bawl? Hard for me to tryout as admins are not affected and I don't have another account.
With the "introduction" of the "insert as reference" button I'm even more inclined on the whole "link form should be broken down in individual sections" idea. References are "very far" from user mentions. Make the mention button permanent instead of an "opt-in", remove the reference reference in it, change the "enter" button that currently says "Add the link" to say something like "Mention/Tag this user", remove the link name field, voila! Keep the link form as it is if you want (even though I believe it will eventually need to be rethought). This is just a suggestion of course. The whole thing is working fine even like it currently is.
I followed up the DT email to get to your comment above. Given that it already had another comment added to it (mine) some rather unexpected things happened. First I got your message highlighted from DT. The before having a chance for that highlight to fade (I have that option set to on), I got autofocused on "the new one", mine which got highlighted as well with a different color if I'm not wrong, most likely from Bawl. Then its signature did the usual 2 part highlight bug which I've mentioned before and then all highlights started fading one by one. This is rather hard to reproduce consistently because it requires those specific conditions to happen. You follow up an email link into an old comment that has had other new comments below it and you have all highlight options activated. I tried 2 more times now to reproduce it but failed because my comment wasn't considered as new anymore from Bawl's perspective. Maybe it was just a one time thing but I thought I'd tell you anyway because when it happened, with multiple colors flashing and focus changing on its own, the browser literally appeared to be broken. — Klein Muçi (talk) 17:26, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
2 more subtle things: Live preview is extra fast now with the new option. It feels immediate and it appears to be even faster than the rate of rendering typed characters on the text form. Can/Should we make it exist only if there is text in it? If it is (or becomes) empty it shows only your signature. Maybe it shouldn't be there at all? When you thank someone, the heart changes color. If you hover over it, you get the tooltip notifying you that you already thanked that person.I However, if you click it again, nothing happens. Maybe something should? In grayscale mode the color change is not that noticeable and there were some cases where I clicked 2-3 times until I understood what was going on. This is a very minor thing though as in the blue mode the heart becomes red and is very easy to see and it's not like we'll use that function that often so feel free to ignore it if you don't have any elegant quick fixes. On the same subject, should the cancel button you get on the thank-popup be highlighted in red? — Klein Muçi (talk) 17:36, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, How exactly? Permalink generated for your comment: [50] Now it's still missing on sections which have no signatures though Done Try adding many links in a comment only through the link form without having pressed any key whatsoever before. Then press escape. They should get removed. Done Quote-dragging doesn't work on multilines. I guess that is intentional but I thought I'd say. Nope, flawed regular expression, it removed content from all templates with multiline parameters. The mention and link forms can get activated again (refreshed) even if they're already active or have text in them, if you just press the needed symbols. Is that intentional? Done Searched for "wrong" on the filter but the setting never showed up. Done That setting includes a link so its label is an OO.ui.HtmlSnippet and didn't get searched. I noticed that the tooltip contributors' list doesn't truncate even on +20 names. That's very good news for me but I was wondering if it had any limit whatsoever. 1000 characters, try it on WP:FRAMBAN#Endorse. What happens if you activate an edit filter with Bawl? Hard for me to tryout as admins are not affected and I don't have another account. You'd probably get the kitty and whatever error the API returned. Make the mention button permanent instead of an "opt-in", I dunno. Maybe. Things get cluttered real fast. remove the reference reference in it Done change the "enter" button that currently says "Add the link" to say something like "Mention/Tag this user" Not available from existing translation files for MediaWik corei/2010 Wikitext editor/Echo. I used the closest I could find: echo-displaysnippet-title: New notification remove the link name field Done If it is (or becomes) empty it shows only your signature. Maybe it shouldn't be there at all? Just a signature is a valid response on some votes. there were some cases where I clicked 2-3 times until I understood what was going on. Made it darker in grayscale mode and added 20 degree rotation when thanked. On the same subject, should the cancel button you get on the thank-popup be highlighted in red? No, because it won't result in data loss or any other likely undesirable result. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 21:46, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
Permalink generated for your comment Yeah, that's what I called a diff link. I was asking for an anchor of some sort that when clicked gives the current version of the page/section with the comment in words highlighted. Multiline comments still don't get quotified. Try dragging a text of yours that has a quote, a done template and some words. See if it gets quotified. Should we get the kitty though? Isn't it better if we just got the error message edit filters give? Kitty should be reserved for bugs, more or less. — Klein Muçi (talk) 03:22, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, Yeah, that's what I called a diff link. It's an oldid, but point taken. For comments with a locator the permalink icon/link now has an href. Either right click and copy link (typically long press on mobile) or middle click to open in a new tab. If a section gets archived this link will break for non-Bawl users. For Bawl users it'll generally find its way back, try for example: Wikipedia:Sandbox#Klein Muçi:1661484147659:User talkFTTCLNAlexis Jazz Try dragging a text of yours that has a quote, a done template and some words. See if it gets quotified. Works for me. Do you see the quote template in wikitext? Kitty should be reserved for bugs, more or less. It can be hard to distinguish. Some bugs can also cause edit filters to trigger. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 05:33, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
Works for me. It doesn't for me. It only works on comments the multiple lines of which are uninterrupted (which are just 1 line per se). As for the links... It's still a permalink. I was expecting to see a link in the current version in "more dynamic" situations where I click it and I'm still able to continue commenting and replying on the page normally, basically have the comment-link behave as section-link does. (Speaking of that, neither of them closes with Esc. They should.) But maybe the permalink alone is enough. It has problems with autofocus though. It tries to autofocus correctly but if it's not the last message in a section, it will get the message too far in the top and you'll only read its ending basically. The link you've provided behaves in the strangest way possible and I have no idea what's going on. You click it, you get to the sandbox and then you get back here immediately while the comment gets highlighted. — Klein Muçi (talk) 10:59, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
Apparently all I've ever need for Bawl to go full automatic instead of acting like a lever-action gun was for me to activate "After posting - Reload the page". I was doing that manually nonetheless each time so now it's pretty good. But why does Never re-parse the page, just reload instead exist if the said option also exists in the dropdown menu? Also, I get this message: Done! Thank you for using Bawl! It has 2 links in it but so far I haven't been able to click them because it disappears too fast. Where do they lead you? Finally, why do these options exist: If adding links takes more than 8 seconds stop adding links Prevent double hashtag indentation (numbered list inside numbered list) And what do these options do: Recombine adjacent nowiki tags within syntaxhighlight. Neater wikitext, but when editing such a comment you may be greeted by #tag:syntaxhighlight instead of syntaxhighlight or nowiki tags may fail to be filtered out. All 3 fields of CSS in Editing — Klein Muçi (talk) 12:48, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
To break out of ninja mode you doubleclick it. Then you double-click the section you wanted to edit/reply to. During this process there are many occasions where random words get selected and then put as quotes in the just opened form. I'm not sure if anything can be done about that though. - Klein Muçi (talk) 15:57, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
It doesn't for me. It only works on comments the multiple lines of which are uninterrupted (which are just 1 line per se). Unless I know exactly what happens there's nothing I can do. If I can reproduce an issue I don't need more info, when I can't, I do need more information. Does the dragged text appear in full in the editing window? What text did you drag, what appeared in the editing window, what appeared in preview? As for the links... It's still a permalink. Just because Bawl can resolve it doesn't make it a permalink. I was expecting to see a link in the current version in "more dynamic" situations where I click it and I'm still able to continue commenting and replying on the page normally, basically have the comment-link behave as section-link does. I don't understand, in what scenario would you use this? Isn't this what the permalink icon inserts with an open reply form in the same section? Speaking of that, neither of them closes with Esc. They should. What is "them"? it will get the message too far in the top and you'll only read its ending basically. Link? The link you've provided behaves in the strangest way possible and I have no idea what's going on. You click it, you get to the sandbox and then you get back here immediately while the comment gets highlighted. Bawl detects the anchor ain't there, searches for it and redirects to the result. Less abstract example: User talk:Alexis Jazz/Bawl#Klein Muçi:1661340140042:User talkFTTCLNAlexis Jazz/Bawl will correctly redirect to the archive page. Apparently all I've ever need for Bawl to go full automatic instead of acting like a lever-action gun was for me to activate "After posting - Reload the page". I was doing that manually nonetheless each time so now it's pretty good. Why did you feel the need to reload the page after posting? But why does Never re-parse the page, just reload instead exist if the said option also exists in the dropdown menu? These options are a bit complicated. I should explain them better, but documentation may be a better place for that. When you post a new (sub)section or comment it gets parsed and inserted into the loaded page by default. This is very fast as it only parses/inserts that comment/section. When you edit a section or full page (and some other scenarios) the full page content gets parsed and inserted into the loaded page but the sidebar/menu are not affected. This takes a bit longer but still fairly quick. (I examined User:BrandonXLF/QuickEdit.js to find out how to do that) Reloading the entire page is slower, but sometimes it's needed. The "never re-parse" checkbox makes it so that whenever the second method would trigger (the one borrowed from QuickEdit), like when editing a section, it'll do a blunt reload instead. Also, I get this message: Done! Thank you for using Bawl! It has 2 links in it but so far I haven't been able to click them because it disappears too fast. Where do they lead you? These are the same as you get when using "Just show a link". They are still shown when doing a full reload because your browser could block the reload from actually happening, beyond my control. The "Done!" link would refresh the page, "Bawl!" just goes to User:Alexis Jazz/Bawl. Finally, why do these options exist: Both expert options: If adding links takes more than 8 seconds stop adding links Try loading a page with 1000+ comments on a 10-year old midrange/budget smartphone with power saving features enabled and you'll appreciate it. Granted, that phone nearly crashes trying to load that page without Bawl, but anyway. Prevent double hashtag indentation (numbered list inside numbered list) Indentation type normally gets duplicated. Respond "*" with "**", respond to "::" with ":::". In case of hashtag indentation (happens in some votes), you don't want replies to votes to be numbered. That's why that option is there. Recombine adjacent nowiki tags within syntaxhighlight. Neater wikitext, but when editing such a comment you may be greeted by #tag:syntaxhighlight instead of syntaxhighlight or nowiki tags may fail to be filtered out. See User talk:Alexis Jazz/Bawl/Archives/2022#Issue All 3 fields of CSS in Editing See User:Alexis Jazz/Bawl#Use features from Bawl outside Bawl? many occasions where random words get selected and then put as quotes in the just opened form. I just can't reproduce this. Opening a form by double click should always prevent the inclusion of a quote and it works for me. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 21:04, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
Unless I know exactly what happens there's nothing I can do. I thought I had already explained. I'll try again. I just selected and dragged this part of the text from above: "Searched for "wrong" on the filter but the setting never showed up. Done That setting includes a link so its label is an OO.ui.HtmlSnippet and didn't get searched. I noticed that the tooltip contributors' list doesn't truncate even on +20 names. That's very good news for me but I was wondering if it had any limit whatsoever. 1000 characters, try it on WP:FRAMBAN#Endorse." I have not changed anything in it. This is exactly as it appeared after I dragged it from above and it appeared identically on the live preview. I don't understand, in what scenario would you use this? Isn't this what the permalink icon inserts with an open reply form in the same section? Ah! "...with an open reply form". I was trying the link icon that appears near the sections while you're not editing anything. That's what I've been talking about. That's what gets you the problems with autofocus because of the text being too high when loaded. The feature you mention behaves exactly as you'd think it does and I have no problems with it. That's what I wanted. But maybe that feature should appear also when not editing and just clicking the link symbol besides comments (those that are coming from Bawl). What is "them"? The forms that you get when you click the link symbol beside a section or a comment without having an edit form opened. They don't get removed by pressing Esc. I also just found a bug: If instead the edit form is opened and you click the link icon in a comment that hasn't come from Bawl and press Esc, the link icon for that comment will disappear forever until you refresh the page. Less abstract example ... will correctly redirect to the archive page. It actually sends me to the archive page but nothing autofocuses. I just get the page opened to the top part of it, like you normally would. Why did you feel the need to reload the page after posting? I've touched this a bit more thoroughly in some posts I've made in the /Bawl subpage. The general idea is that after every action Bawl stopped being reliable and started malfunctioning in different ways. If you posted, edited or deleted something - heck, even if you did something in the same minute, whatever that was - Bawl started getting really confused. Again, I do touch these a bit more thoroughly in the subpage so I'm not continuing here, not wanting to make this text longer. Try loading a page with 1000+ comments... I do get the logic, I just don't understand what exactly is meant with "links" in this context and what happens if said "links" are not posted after 8 seconds have passed. Opening a form by double click should always prevent the inclusion of a quote and it works for me. I'll try to send you a bug report when that has happened. Maybe it will help? — Klein Muçi (talk) 22:17, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, I have not changed anything in it. This is exactly as it appeared after I dragged it from above and it appeared identically on the live preview. Okay, so the text appears without any quote template/blockquote tag. But for single line text it works. As I said, dragging text behaves differently in each browser and yours apparently does something different when dragging multiple lines of text. Which browser do you use? They don't get removed by pressing Esc. Oops, regression. Done. It actually sends me to the archive page but nothing autofocuses. Turns out I broke the example by posting it. Are you sure you got redirected to the archive page? It should work now. I do get the logic, I just don't understand what exactly is meant with "links" in this context and what happens if said "links" are not posted after 8 seconds have passed. Clarified the description. It's actually about reply/permalink/etc icons/links. Nothing happens, your phone or other slow device will just keep crunching numbers until either all the icons/links are there or the battery is empty. I'll try to send you a bug report when that has happened. Maybe it will help? Try to include as many details as possible. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 23:57, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
┌──────────────────────────────┘ Which browser do you use? Google Chrome. Are you sure you got redirected to the archive page? No. It should work now. Wow! I got redirected 3 times and it finally showed me the comment, autofocused and highlighted. This almost looked like human behavior, having Bawl follow the trail of the comment. It's actually impressive. I've never seen anything surviving archiving so far. Part of me says to ask if there is a way to make the process "faster", without the multiple redirects, but another big part of me wants to leave them in just to showcase the way Bawl works in the background while doing that process. Try to include as many details as possible. I did already. But it's very hard to include any meaningful details. After the report I sent, the same phenomenon happened a couple of times again. The report I sent was with an empty quote. Then I got the word "and" as a quote. Then the letters "nd". Then I got no quote. (The 3 examples were in another comment, not the one I filed the report about. And I'm not sure if they included doubleclicking at all.) All in all things behave very strange at WP:VPT. I've already filed a report about not being able to use Bawl anymore there. It literally can't post comments anymore for me there. Also ever since yesterday things have been strange in general. The DT reply links disappeared from ninja mode, the ToC gets uncollapsed everywhere, subscriptions stopped working for a while, then they came back but I've yet to get a single notification from Bawl, the regression you yourself mentioned... I haven't noticed the highlighting problems when following email links anymore though. Maybe you have fixed that and made some accidents along the way? (The email-highlighting problem still persists. :( ) PS: A funny bug - You can actually drag a part of text from the form you're currently editing back to itself and it will count as a quote. :P I believe that's not intended. Actually... You can drag text from everywhere... Even from other tabs. And it will still render it as a quote. — Klein Muçi (talk) 00:18, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
We've already talked about this in the past in a vague manner but I believe you shouldn't get the thank option for yourself. It would made it easier to discern your own comments and lower overall visual clutter. Although on the other hand I enjoy having the message that issues if you try to thank yourself treat you like a complete narcissist. :P — Klein Muçi (talk) 01:16, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, the same phenomenon happened a couple of times again To be absolutely clear: you double clicked a comment to open a reply form and the quote appeared. That's what happened? A funny bug - You can actually drag a part of text from the form you're currently editing back to itself and it will count as a quote. :P I believe that's not intended. Actually... You can drag text from everywhere... Even from other tabs. And it will still render it as a quote. You can also drag text from your word processor! Bawl doesn't really know where you are dragging from. I believe you shouldn't get the thank option for yourself. You shouldn't have it, I wonder why you do. Maybe the special character in your username causes the check to fail, I'll check that. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 01:41, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, That's what gets you the problems with autofocus because of the text being too high when loaded. I'm not sure what you are describing here. Probably a reference to another report you filed, if so I'll get to it eventually, I hope. The feature you mention behaves exactly as you'd think it does and I have no problems with it. That's what I wanted. But maybe that feature should appear also when not editing and just clicking the link symbol besides comments (those that are coming from Bawl). What do you expect to happen when clicking a link icon? I can't figure out why you have thank buttons. Can you open a reply form to yourself, open the browser console and check the values for Bawl.userNameUnderscore and Bawl.replyLinkParamsOpened.origReplyTo? They should be identical, but I guess somehow for you they're not? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 03:16, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
To be absolutely clear: you double clicked a comment to open a reply form and the quote appeared. That's what happened? Yes but I'm not 100% sure it was only with double clicks. I think it might have happened even when just clicking the bubble icon after double clicking to get out of ninja mode. Bawl doesn't really know where you are dragging from. Eh, I understood that later. I don't think we can affect that, can we? In addition, I've been thinking about making even pasted text as quotes. Many times in our conversations the message I'm replying to sits too high with the edit form to easily drag and drop it. But I worry that the paste option could be too aggressive. I'm not sure what you are describing here. Check an old comment of mine here (anyone just not the last one) that has been typed by Bawl, click the link icon beside it, copy the link, paste it into a new page in the browser. The page will load and the comment will get autofocused but its text will be too high to be read properly. When comments are not typed by Bawl and you instead get a diff link with the same procedure there is no autofocus at all. Maybe you should get autofocused on the diff part of the page? What do you expect to happen when clicking a link icon? If the comment is typed by Bawl, I should get 2 links, similar to what I would do if I clicked at a link icon in a title section. One is the link that you normally get, the oldid, the other one is what you get when you click the link while you're typing a comment and the link icon has been changed into an arrow. I'm suggesting the second option should be present even while not having edit forms opened. I can't figure out why you have thank buttons. Turns out I don't have them in every comment. I have them only in comments that aren't typed by Bawl. — Klein Muçi (talk) 06:36, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
I think I'm closer to understanding what causes the bug with quotes where they get autoinserted randomly. Activate ninja mode, double click somewhere to get out of it, when that happens something gets selected where the double click happened. When you click the speech bubble to reply somewhere, the system maybe remembers the selection that happened while in ninja mode and puts whatever was selected as a quote. Unfortunately I wasn't able to reproduce this consistently though but maybe it can help pointing you to the right direction. Is happening non-stop lately. — Klein Muçi (talk) 14:58, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Uncollapse section when clicked in ToC doesn't work in non-talkspace - it should - and comment highlighting after clicking the comment works in ninja mode - it shouldn't. (It should preserve the DT original highlighting behavior if those are active though + the fading one can choose to implement for them by the corresponding Bawl setting (?).) — Klein Muçi (talk) 15:13, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
After we double click and get out of ninja mode, the big arrow on the top of the page wrongly gets rendered pointing down even though all sections are closed. — Klein Muçi (talk) 16:48, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, I think it might have happened even when just clicking the bubble icon after double clicking to get out of ninja mode. Selection should get cleared now when double clicking to perform an action. The page will load and the comment will get autofocused but its text will be too high to be read properly. Should be fixed. Maybe you should get autofocused on the diff part of the page? Done I'm suggesting the second option should be present even while not having edit forms opened. How? That link doesn't work until you post it. Turns out I don't have them in every comment. I have them only in comments that aren't typed by Bawl. Can you open a reply form to such a comment and trigger the bug reporter? and comment highlighting after clicking the comment works in ninja mode - it shouldn't. Why not? You're asking for a ninja mode super stealth edition. That'll require reorganizing some code which should happen eventually anyway but I'm not sure that will be before a stable release. the big arrow on the top of the page wrongly gets rendered pointing down even though all sections are closed I'll check. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 18:25, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
Selection should get cleared now when double clicking to perform an action. I hope this will fix it but it'll take some time to try it out. Maybe you should get autofocused on the diff part of the page? It's not done. At least for me nothing has changed. Should be fixed. Unfortunately it isn't. The exact same behavior happens for me. Maybe you haven't considered the ninja mode workflow? The new link opens in ninja mode. How? That link doesn't work until you post it. I'm confused. Why doesn't the anchor link (am I right in calling it like that?) work until you post it? Why not? Comment highlighting has some other problems too anyway. I've mentioned them in the /Bawl subpage about visual aspects. No hurry whatsoever. The reason is mostly for consistency. Ninja mode = Bawl goes into background. I worry that if its features start "to leak" in ninja mode the borders between standard and ninja mode will start to get blurry. Adding on the "well defined modes" subject I was also thinking that maybe, if after double clicking and going from Ninja to Standard there is nothing open (to escape) currently, pressing Esc could get you back to Ninja mode again. This could make moving between modes easier. What do you think? Extra: I believe "email links" are behaving badly again. They don't send you in ninja mode when you follow them for the first time, like they used to some days ago. — Klein Muçi (talk) 23:43, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, It's not done. At least for me nothing has changed. Only for new links. Without Bawl they focus the diff area, with Bawl it tries to highlight the actual comment. Unfortunately it isn't. Maybe now? I'm confused. Why doesn't the anchor link (am I right in calling it like that?) work until you post it? The #202208282343 Klein Muçi style link doesn't work until you post because just I nicked the feature from CD and it works the exact same way: it sneakily adds the anchor to the comment in question. at all because it's broken again. pressing Esc could get you back to Ninja mode again. This could make moving between modes easier. What do you think? Aw hell no. Your metaphor that compares ninja mode to a layer that can be broken to reveal the "true" page underneath isn't right from a technical point of view. I can see how a user might think that's how it works, but it's not how it works. There's no reason to unload stuff once it has been loaded. A few months ago Bawl had IIRC 4 "loaders" because adding icons/links to potentially 1000+ comments is expensive. There was a full loader that loaded all reply icons on page load (but was sometimes a bit slow), ninja mode, one that loaded links only for a specific section on demand and a "fake" loader I had dubbed "fauxLoader" that was reasonably fast and added icons everywhere but the reply form took longer to open because some of the math was shifted from page load to form opening. Since then the performance of the "full" loader has been improved significantly, borrowing a little from fauxLoader and some general optimization, mostly by reducing requests for info from the DOM. Then fauxLoader and the section-only loader got scrapped as obsolete. Ninja mode was introduced for performance and that is still its primary function: significantly reduce the number of CPU cycles consumed if you don't need Bawl on every page load. Could matter on a smartphone which has limited CPU power, limited battery life and may be used mostly for reading and only occasionally to comment on something. The user experience isn't all that great of course. Ninja mode means trading user experience for performance. And any components that don't hog resources still load. Ninja mode stops Bawl.searchNodeContentsLoop() from running on page load, the function that processes all elements within the #mw-content-text element. Nothing more, nothing less. Maybe I should just remove ninja mode, if it's that problematic. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 01:07, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
Only for new links. Without Bawl they focus the diff area, with Bawl it tries to highlight the actual comment.
Works as described.
Thank you for the detailed information! You had already mentioned the "its aim is at performance" part in the past. I just thought that that idea could be evolved into something more than that with time as more and more features get introduced to Bawl (as it's happening). For example, you first introduced me with it on a completely unrelated function in regard to performance: Use it when mentoring to provide an experience on par with the native one new users get. And I've done so and it does its job pretty well. (These is why I'm afraid of "new features leaking in" and why I talked about the Matrix metaphor.) In the future, when things would get a bit more stable, I had planned to try the Bawl experience on phone and while using CD (I have yet to use CD for 1 single day so far but just for testing reasons). When this day comes - which doesn't look too far as, not counting regressions, I'm failing to find new big issues that should be addressed - the ninja mode could be used to allow for easier CD/Bawl switching on issues where parity could lack, in a similar idea with editor switching (source, 2010 and VL). If you picture a future where Bawl overtakes all major editing functions (maybe when it changes its name, if that ever happens), it is easy to also picture users that wouldn't want the full package just for preference reasons. It's been happening for 20 years with native Mediawiki features, let alone user scripts/gadgets. A certain user decides to use CD to reply to conversations just because it likes its interface but loves to use Bawl to edit articles, another wants to use Bawl for conversations but doesn't want it affecting table editing in general... The more features Bawl engulfs in itself, the more the potential of users not wanting the full package raises. In these cases, "ninja mode" (which might as well have changed its name too on the meanwhile) could allow for dynamic switching between different modes. This would assure that Bawl would always be there, but could also be partially unloaded for whatever reasons the user might have. - Klein Muçi (talk) 08:28, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
The big arrow appears to render correctly now but it doesn't function correctly. If you click it, it changes position horizontally but doesn't do anything. Then if you click it again, it works as intended.
And unfortunately the bug with quotes coming prefilled with words is still there. I'm starting to think that maybe it is my fault. Maybe my user experience/workflow somehow is going into an unpredictable way for poor Bawl which is just giving me the quote that I inadvertently tell it to give. I'm sure if you could somehow see what my workflow is you would be able to immediately understand what was going on but I can't really think of any easy ways to provide that. Klein Muçi (talk) 09:18, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
An idea I've been entertaining for a while these days: Settings get introduced in abundance lately. Maybe we can guide users to newly added ones that they haven't seen yet? Like, in some smartphones, you get this treatment for new settings in different apps: A dot goes in top of the settings icon, notifying you that there are new settings to be seen, you click the icon and then you see the dot on top of the header in which the new setting has been added and then on the new setting itself (or maybe the new setting can be highlighted). Once the new setting has been clicked, the dots disappear forever. But maybe we don't expect new settings to be so abundant in the future so maybe there's no need for such a system. Or maybe you have in mind another system of notifying users. — Klein Muçi (talk) 11:13, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
Suggestion for a small change: Consider a discussion with 3 users, A, B and C. User A presses @ and wants to tag both users. A list with users B and C comes up, in that order. User A tags users B and presses @ again to tag user C. Again the same list comes up, in the same order, user B and C. This time it would be better maybe for the order to be changed. The user that was tagged should go in the bottom of the list. In lists with many users present, already tagged users should be listed at the "bottom" alphabetically while untagged users should be listed alphabetically at the "top" of the list. I don't feel that strongly about this so you decide. I just thought I'd say it as food for thought. — Klein Muçi (talk) 20:05, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, the ninja mode could be used to allow for easier CD/Bawl switching on issues where parity could lack Bawl aims to provide (more or less) feature parity with both CD and DT. Switching between Bawl and CD doesn't work well. If Bawl is already loaded, CD will fail. If CD is already loaded, Bawl may be able to load but it may fail to detect some comments. it is easy to also picture users that wouldn't want the full package just for preference reasons Which is why almost everything can be disabled. A certain user decides to use CD to reply to conversations just because it likes its interface but loves to use Bawl to edit articles That certain user could disable "Detect comments by Bawl locator" and "Detect comments by legacy method". The big arrow appears to render correctly now but it doesn't function correctly. If you click it, it changes position horizontally but doesn't do anything. Then if you click it again, it works as intended. Where? Can't reproduce. An idea I've been entertaining for a while these days: Settings get introduced in abundance lately. Maybe we can guide users to newly added ones that they haven't seen yet? All eight of them? already tagged users should be listed at the "bottom" alphabetically while untagged users should be listed alphabetically at the "top" of the list That kind of behavior is useful sometimes, but probably not here. If the order changes, the user has to look closely at the list after every mention. Humans tend to navigate by button position, not strictly button label. They don't press "submit", they press "the blue one on the right/left". Same for the mention list, they mention the first user from the list followed by the second user from the list. If the second user suddenly becomes first, they'll mention the third user who now became second instead. "Uncollapse section when clicked in ToC" doesn't work in non-talkspace Will be fixed in next update. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 22:22, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
Where? Can't reproduce. For example, in this page. Ninja mode on, go on top of the page and click beside the page title to "break it". Click the arrow. It will do nothing beside jiggling a little horizontally. Click it again, it will rotate 45 degrees and start acting like it should. All eight of them? I haven't been counting but the thing is that given that I'm always on "testing mode", (I intend to do so until we have been able to finish my old long request lists in the /Bawl subpage at which point I'll do one final test) I have to be on the lookout for everything that changes. New options to try out or new features that are introduced to understand if that is a regression, bug or a feature. I try to spy on your contributions list on Bawl.js sometimes and try random phrases in the settings filter. Also every once in a while I search all headers manually. But all this is cumbersome and there are cases where again I've been close on reporting things that were actually newly intended features, the latest one being the "signatures' highlight doesn't fade", which I was just about to report it as a bug when I decided to do one last search on the settings. If things are hard for me it's not really a problem, eventually they won't. But I thought that maybe other users could enjoy getting notified about changes to options as well in the future. If you think they wouldn't, maybe you can give me a nudge every now and then when there are changes in the settings. Will be fixed in next update. Tried it out but it still has problems for me. Try using it here many times in a row: w:sq:Harry Potter. It works on some occasions, usually the first ones, and then stops working. Sometimes it autofocuses the needed section but it doesn't collapse it. Also, I tried the new function for quickly converting text to wikilinks. Can its function be extended to understand nonwiki links and add only 1 couple of brackets to them instead of two? It doesn't take extra care for categories but maybe that's alright. It doesn't care at all for the number of lines though, allowing you to put text in brackets even in multilines scenarios which maybe shouldn't happen. — Klein Muçi (talk) 08:51, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, For example, in this page. Ninja mode on, go on top of the page and click beside the page title to "break it". Click the arrow. It will do nothing beside jiggling a little horizontally. Click it again, it will rotate 45 degrees and start acting like it should. Can't reproduce. 45 degrees? That's impossible, it rotates 90 degrees. You must be using something else to collapse sections. I have to be on the lookout for everything that changes. New options to try out or new features that are introduced to understand if that is a regression, bug or a feature. If I don't forget I'll try to add "(new!)" to new features (and remove it after a week or so) so you can easily search for that. Currently not worth the trouble to implement a system to notify users of new features as there are only eight users. If needed at some point I imagine a popup that tells the user about new features would be easier to implement. Tried it out but it still has problems for me. I made some changes, is this still an issue? Also, I tried the new function for quickly converting text to wikilinks. Can its function be extended to understand nonwiki links and add only 1 couple of brackets to them instead of two? Done It doesn't care at all for the number of lines though Done, it now cares. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 04:47, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
45 degrees? That's impossible, it rotates 90 degrees. Yes. We're talking about the same thing but I'm just stupid. My brain was hardwired on 45 ever since you used used it for the heart. It still has the same behavior. You click it, it jiggles a bit and does nothing and then starts functioning like it should. I made some changes, is this still an issue? No. The only issue is that the option for sections to be auto-collapsed doesn't work but we'll treat that in another post where the problem is mentioned. — Klein Muçi (talk) 08:48, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
Also... Should we allow for individual uncollapse/collapse of subsections in different levels? They don't happen that often on the talkspace (or do they?) but of course they're used a lot in the mainspace and other namespaces. What do you think? — Klein Muçi (talk) 09:08, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, My brain was hardwired on 45 ever since you used used it for the heart. The heart only rotates 20 degrees when thanked. You click it, it jiggles a bit and does nothing and then starts functioning like it should. Still can't reproduce, and I'm using the same skin and settings. I made some improvements to the behavior of collapsing, but I'm not sure that will have affected any of your issues. Uhm... The linquify function appears currently broken. :/ What do you mean "broken"? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:40, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, Also... Should we allow for individual uncollapse/collapse of subsections in different levels? Making it work for H1+H2 was already a nightmare (and is still an occasional source of bugs), I'd go crazy if I had to add H3/H4/H5/H6. Also, it's generally not desirable. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:51, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
Contrary to your belief it is actually fixed now. The arrow I mean. There is no jiggling or false start. The heart only rotates 20 degrees when thanked. Hah! I'm smart, ain't I? What do you mean "broken"? "Broken" as in "it has lost the function you just gave it". If you select something and click it, it doesn't put brackets. It just opens the link form. — Klein Muçi (talk) 13:01, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
Out of curiosity, what's up with Bawl and the main page? It doesn't seem to load there. That's good but I'm just curios what's going on behind the scenes. Also, I was thinking... Maybe we can put a small ninja silhouette, maybe as an icon somewhere, to indicate that the ninja mode is on? But I also thought that what kind of ninja would it be if it would be detected? :P You decide. — Klein Muçi (talk) 13:14, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, If you select something and click it, it doesn't put brackets. It just opens the link form. Using CodeMirror? Disable CodeMirror. Out of curiosity, what's up with Bawl and the main page? It doesn't seem to load there. That's good but I'm just curios what's going on behind the scenes. Loads for me, but not visibly. I can collapse sections though, but that's a bit broken. #firstHeading is hidden on the main page so no Bawl icons there. If you unhide it, the arrow to collapse/uncollapse all sections is broken. Main Page is an odd exception, not sure what (if anything) to do about it. a small ninja silhouette Probably not, maybe if a ninja mode super stealth edition gets introduced in the future, which may or may not happen at all. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:43, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
Using CodeMirror? No. Main Page is an odd exception, not sure what (if anything) to do about it. I believe it comes to the question if you expect people to use Bawl on it or no. If you expect to use it, I guess you should try to add support for it, if not, maybe Bawl can have a central blacklist where it won't load? If such a thing can be done, you can easily get all the Main pages from Wikidata and add them there. You won't need to update that list far too often. This can be useful in other cases as well, like the cases when I was surprised of seeing Bawl in some namespaces I wasn't expecting to see it (even though you solved that with the added setting). — Klein Muçi (talk) 21:25, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, No. That's really strange. I just can't reproduce it. Strange bug: Some wikilinks now get underlined above instead of under (abovelined LOL) when hovered. I have no idea how Bawl could cause that and can't reproduce it. you can easily get all the Main pages from Wikidata and add them there. Main pages vary across projects, no reason to exclude all. Including a list from Wikidata would be silly, I already have a mechanism to obtain things like the names of templates from Wikidata. MediaWiki:mainpage (Main Page) is even easier. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 04:09, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
That's really strange. I just can't reproduce it.
It got fixed now. 1 final problem still remains though. If you put a link you get 1 couple of brackets around it, anything else you get 2. IF however you put a link of a wikipage (not a wikilink), Bawl gets confused and does nothing and opens the link form. The same thing happens if for whatever reason you decide to linquify a wikilink ([[link]]). You don't get your brackets doubled, it's just the link form that opens. This is the same thing twice, related to the link conversion that is happening in the background and to "double brackets autoopen the link form".
As for the last part, you know it best yourself. But you made me think now... What if we include a blacklist mechanism for the public in which they can include links in it in where they don't want Bawl to fire up? Or maybe whole namespaces? Again, something you can decide yourself. - Klein Muçi (talk) 08:45, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, IF however you put a link of a wikipage (not a wikilink), Bawl gets confused and does nothing and opens the link form. If you do.. what? I don't understand. The same thing happens if for whatever reason you decide to linquify a wikilink (link). You don't get your brackets doubled Actually you do. For the underline bug, check the screenshot. And if you disable Bawl it's fixed? Are you sure Bawl causes this? What if we include a blacklist mechanism for the public in which they can include links in it in where they don't want Bawl to fire up? Nice idea, I'll look into it. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:13, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
If you do.. what? I don't understand. Get the URL of a random wikipage and put it in the text form. Select it and click the link icon. Actually you do. No, you don't. I've tried it multiple times in here and in my homewiki. And if you disable Bawl it's fixed? Are you sure Bawl causes this? No, it is not apparently. I even tried it in safemode. Nothing worked to fix that behavior. I started a discussion about it at WP:VPT - Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Wikilink overlined (?!) — Klein Muçi (talk) 15:03, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
Loving the "New" notification for new comments. It completely solves the signature highlighting problems. (Is there any new setting about this?) There is only one very minor problem: It has one extra space on the left side. — Klein Muçi (talk) 20:42, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, I removed the red color from the cancel button on hover, deviating from OO.ui like that was bugging me. Either put .BawlCancelBtn a:hover{border-color:#d73333 !important;color:#d73333 !important} in your m:Special:MyPage/global.css for the old behavior or enable the new option to style cancel buttons destructively. blacklist mechanism Done PS: Maybe an icon can be utilized instead of words? You can't ctrl-f for an icon.. No, it is not apparently. So, turns out it's Chrome bug which is triggered by nasty nesting of DT's superfluous span tags. And instead of fixing the nasty nesting, they're just pointing their finger at Chrome. *sigh* — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 05:05, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
I removed the red color from the cancel button on hover, deviating from OO.ui like that was bugging me. It's okay. blacklist mechanism Done but it doesn't include namespace options. Or does it? Maybe you can utilize regex for that? It would be easier if you were just allowed to put, for example, Template and be done with it ("remove" Bawl from all templates). And regex can't be utilized on the mainspace which doesn't really have a name. Maybe adding some tickboxes for each namespace would be helpful? Even though it would be a rather spacious solution. You can't ctrl-f for an icon.. Actually you strangely, technically speaking, can. I remember being surprised by this some months ago when user Nardog created a user script for us for quickly reverting or accepting edits, now a gadget at SqWiki. In it you get icons beside edits to accept or revert them and they also act as words and can be highlighted when Ctrl+F is used. What these words specifically are in the background I can't remember for sure now (can be found while checking the gadget page) and that function is mostly an Easter egg if you know what you're doing but it is technically possible if we want to go that way. I believe you also knew this. Maybe a similar solution can be found in here given that we don't expect people to Ctrl+F for "new". They're supposed to use the buttons for that or to scroll. If however we stick with the pure text solution, I think we need to slow down the highlight fading a bit. Or maybe just make it more gradual. I'd wish for icons myself though. This brings me to the settings "new" flag. It's an improvement but it still doesn't give me any information without having to actually check the settings and then go through their groups one by one manually. Maybe that's okay though. However I wish the flag could also be highlighted. That would make the manual searching process easier. And I'm not sure yet if the flag itself is part of the filter functionality or not. I mean: Can I search for "new" and get all the new settings beside the ones that already have "new" as part of their name? If I can, should I be allowed to do that? If I should, can another word be found that is unique searching for which would allow me to list only the new settings? Again here, if it was in my hands, I'd go for an icon (with text in the background). Extra question: For how long does the flag stay on? — Klein Muçi (talk) 08:05, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
I was testing the linquifying problem I mentioned above. It still persists. However, while doing so, I discovered another unusual behavior. If the URL of a wikipage is dragged and dropped in the text form instead of being copied, it will come out as a quote. This is not unusual. The unusual part starts when you actually delete the template parts and leave just the URL. Bawl will fail to work its auto-conversion magic. — Klein Muçi (talk) 08:18, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, Done but it doesn't include namespace options. Or does it? Maybe you can utilize regex for that? /^Category:/ Just Category: would also work but would also match User:Category:example which is in the user namespace. And regex can't be utilized on the mainspace which doesn't really have a name. /^[^:]*$/ should match any title without a colon. Some mainspace titles do include a colon of course, so ^(?!Talk:|User:|User talk:|Wikipedia:|Wikipedia talk:|File:|File talk:|MediaWiki:|MediaWiki talk:|Template:|Template talk:|Help:|Help talk:|Category:|Category talk:|Portal:|Portal talk:|Draft:|Draft talk:|TimedText:|TimedText talk:|Module:|Module talk:|Gadget:|Gadget talk:|Gadget definition:|Gadget definition talk:|Media:|Special:).* would be needed for better accuracy. I added a checkbox for mainspace. Even though it would be a rather spacious solution. Exactly, it's enough of a niche option as it is. In it you get icons beside edits to accept or revert them and they also act as words and can be highlighted when Ctrl+F is used. True, this accidentally worked with screen reader labels for icons in Bawl as well for a while. But it's very much an Easter egg. And it's extremely confusing. I think we need to slow down the highlight fading a bit. Done If I can, should I be allowed to do that? If I should, can another word be found that is unique searching for which would allow me to list only the new settings? Yes, yes, search for "(new)" with parenthesis. Extra question: For how long does the flag stay on? Until I'm bored of it. The unusual part starts when you actually delete the template parts and leave just the URL. Bawl will fail to work its auto-conversion magic Can't reproduce. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 17:45, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
I was reading User:Alexis Jazz/Bawl. An empty comment only including NOSIGN adds +1 level of indentation. An empty new section form only including NOSIGN does nothing. I'm not sure the empty comment should add to indentation. I always insert smileys without the nose. Do I really need the nose part for Bawl to detect them? Even with the new module about them? — Klein Muçi (talk) 00:45, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, An empty comment only including NOSIGN adds +1 level of indentation. I'm not sure the empty comment should add to indentation. Sounds like it did what you asked it to do. If you deliberately only enter NOSIGN, which no user would ever do accidentally, I'd say you know what you are doing so no reason to interfere. An empty new section form only including NOSIGN does nothing. Interesting. An empty new section results in a null edit. The API doesn't register null edits as errors, so no kitty. Bawl does warn you by making the title field red/shake, but if you press "submit" again it'll try to post as the body could contain the section header instead. I always insert smileys without the nose. Do I really need the nose part for Bawl to detect them? Even with the new module about them? The module only includes clickable smileys, no replacements. Replacing smileys without the nose is risky. I know for example a forum where 8) is replaced by a smiley with sunglasses. That smiley gets inserted in strange places on a regular basis. For example in "I need 9 rune stones to complete the level (but I could only find 8)", the 8) at the end would become a smiley. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 03:37, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
I understand and yes, I've seen that accident happen a lot. Okay then. But I'm kinda disappointed with the module's behavior. I was hoping it would increase the replacements options "in the background", not give me a mega-shelf of emojis like in the '90s forums. :P — Klein Muçi (talk) 07:43, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
On another note, the behavior between global and local options is confusing and KINDA broken. If you try to ever save something locally, the button stays on forever saving all the options in that "account" (which BTW is confusing on itself as a term when SUL comes into play - took me a while to understand what it meant). I believe this is intentional but it would be way easier for every user if another schema was chosen instead. Something like, each setting has 2 tickboxes beside it for local and global and you choose where you want to save it. Or maybe you can save them globally and be allowed to choose individual exceptions for individual settings... Anything that understands exceptions. I tried to make some templated answers SqWiki only and ultimately I gave up after what I described above happened. The save button was "locked" on "account" and if you changed it, it couldn't understand exceptions and it went on saving everything globally again. I haven't tried the browser option but that made me think: Shouldn't there be a device option as well? (Shouldn't there be an option to disable Bawl on phones altogether, just in case?) — Klein Muçi (talk) 07:56, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Reminded by the splitting you apply to my lists, I was made aware that currently we have no link manipulation possibilities like VE has. I mean quickly changing list types or their indentation. I've already talked about table and image insertion with Bawl but maybe this is easier to implement? It would require to introduce a new button specific to lists though. — Klein Muçi (talk) 09:00, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
┌──────────────────────────────┘ Also, I've mentioned this vaguely in the past but now I understand Bawl better to make a more clearer request: I use User:Rummskartoffel/auto-watchlist-expiry to look after my watchlist. Would it be possible for Bawl to differentiate between "create" and "edit" (as it is in that script) and allow me to choose different behaviors for those two actions? I edit a lot of pages for maintenance reasons as an admin. I only want to have them watchlisted for a short amount of time, let's say 1 month. This is already doable with Bawl currently. I also happen to create some pages. I want them watchlisted forever. This is where Bawl stops helping. — Klein Muçi (talk) 09:21, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, the button stays on forever saving all the options in that "account" There are three options: browser, account and global account. In that order. If browser settings are available those are used. Otherwise it'll use the settings from your account preferences. (and MediaWiki handles the local/global thing) As MediaWiki handles that bit, there's no easy switch possible there as MediaWiki just delivers your combined settings in mw.user.options. When saving settings to a wider level, the lower levels are deleted. So if you save settings to your account, browser settings are deleted. Something like, each setting has 2 tickboxes beside it for local and global and you choose where you want to save it. Yeah, that's not confusing at all! Or maybe you can save them globally and be allowed to choose individual exceptions for individual settings... The settings object is one object. The save button was "locked" on "account" And this was a problem because? (Shouldn't there be an option to disable Bawl on phones altogether, just in case?) There's an option "Load links on Minerva (mobile)", not exactly what you say but goes a long way. I mean quickly changing list types or their indentation. Seems like too much of a niche option to me. Someone could write a module for it. I also happen to create some pages. I want them watchlisted forever. Could be doable. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:27, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
And this was a problem because? That is not a problem per se. The overall schema is the problem. It doesn't allow for exceptions. Real life scenario: I work in SqWiki most of the time and that's where I do most of my testing. I wanted to make the templated answers local while having everything else global. After I save something as local though, I can't go on and save new settings as global there, which is something I do pretty often these days while testing. If I save the templated answers locally, I can't go on and save the option to have grayscale icons globally. If I do that, templated answers are saved globally as well. The whole global rank becomes inaccessible for me in a project where I've saved something locally as doing global changes there will remove all local preferences. The only way to access the global rank would be to go and make changes in another project where you have activated Bawl as well and you haven't set up any local preferences. This is really cumbersome. What should happen instead? Something similar with the way native account preferences work. Your global settings can be accessed by any project, no matter if you have local exceptions in that project or not. You can put as many local exceptions as you want with ease as well. But, if I understood your explanation correctly, that behavior is not achievable technically. In that case there is not much we can do beside documenting the said behavior in a clear manner. Out of curiosity, I'm repeating myself: Considering we have "browser settings", can't we also have "device settings", meaning to have Bawl behave differently in different desktop/mobiles? — Klein Muçi (talk) 10:41, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, The only way to access the global rank would be to go and make changes in another project where you have activated Bawl as well and you haven't set up any local preferences. That's indeed what you're supposed to do. This is really cumbersome. I have the same setup, hasn't bothered me too much. As a tester you could be an exception, but typical users change their settings less than once a week. But, if I understood your explanation correctly, that behavior is not achievable technically. In that case there is not much we can do beside documenting the said behavior in a clear manner. Anything is technically possible, but the effort isn't worth the improvement IMHO. Okay, it might be for you, but generally speaking it won't be. You can put as many local exceptions as you want with ease as well. I get confused by the native account preferences all the time. Global, local, overrides, beta features that change how existing features function. I mostly stay away from the global preferences: I only enforced English interface language globally as local languages are frequently undecipherable. And apparently I enabled DT beta globally, probably for testing purposes before DT got enabled by default. Can't remember. Out of curiosity, I'm repeating myself: Considering we have "browser settings", can't we also have "device settings", meaning to have Bawl behave differently in different desktop/mobiles? Browser settings means saving settings to the browser. (LocalStorage) If Bawl would be enabled by default on a wiki (or you load it using Greasemonkey or something) you can change the settings without an account that way. Changing behavior on desktop/mobile is technically possible. (already happens, Bawl has loads of Minerva hax) As the mobile site on Wikimedia exists on a different domain, browser settings from the mobile site don't apply to the desktop site and vice versa. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 11:34, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
I've done the opposite of you. Everything is global beside some "advanced" ones like seeing hidden categories which are activated only on my homewiki. What about using 2 different laptops with the same account and browsers but having different Bawl settings in them? That's what I meant. — Klein Muçi (talk) 11:40, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Ah! Me is wiser now. :P As I've mentioned in some other posts, most of my "wikijourneys" start from emails. These emails come mostly from this setting: Automatically subscribe to topics When you start a new discussion or comment in an existing discussion, you will be automatically notified when others post new comments to it. However that DT subscription won't happen if Bawl is used instead. Neither in new topics I start, nor in existing ones I interact with. This has forced me to turn Bawl "on and off" in most of my actions with it so I can do the needed subscription. Would it be possible that together with the Bawl subscription the DT subscription happened as well when I created new topics or interacted with existing ones? Also, some needed corrections: Never load Bawl when page title matches: (one per line, /[[Rr]egEx.*/ allowed) (new) - There is one extra bracket on the left side. Mark timestamps of new comments since your last visit to the page Mark timestamps of new comments in sections you subscribed to since your last visit to the page - These options still exist even though there are no more timestamps marked. Given that settings are in a continuous state of change lately I haven't put much attention to them. These were only what I saw at a first glimpse. I suspect there are more general corrections of the same sort or extra clarifications needed. I suggest you take a look at them when you have some extra, extra time. — Klein Muçi (talk) 15:01, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
... Speaking of settings terminology, these are 3 parts which I found "unnatural":
Expect funky shit.
Done. Thank you for using Bawl!
undefined
The first one looks rather vulgar when compared with the rest of the settings. There were some other almost-similar cases like this, utilizing all sorts of language register types and formatting but you more or less removed them all and eventually this was the last one remaining (and to some extent the ones with the terrible idea and wrong side). It also appears rather ambiguous in meaning. What exactly means "funky" in this context? As a non-native it's a bit hard to perceive it correctly. The second one has the opposite problem. It uses a rather high language register which is uncommon for Bawl in general, its settings or messages. This makes it appear pretty superficial/generic. The third one is encountered rarely in the live preview but it is the most technical message a user may get from Bawl, accentuated by it being a 1 uncapitalized word. As for kitty messages... Those are pretty informal in general and stay on a league of their own. — Klein Muçi (talk) 15:25, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, This has forced me to turn Bawl "on and off" in most of my actions with it so I can do the needed subscription Did you try disabling "Hide subscription links from DiscussionTools if Bawl subscription links are enabled"? Improved some of the messages. For funky shit, see Funky Shit. If someone wants me to be professional, they'll have to pay me. The third one is encountered rarely in the live preview but it is the most technical message a user may get from Bawl, accentuated by it being a 1 uncapitalized word. Probably a bug resulting from an undefined variable, but as I don't know how to reproduce this nothing I can do. Link magic autoconversion doesn't work in subject and summary fields. Should it? Done I have a feeling that you might have accidently lost track of the questions on your latest replies. Combination of archiving sections while using debug mode without manually refreshing the page and your signature not being unique because I duplicated it when splitting those mega-reports into bite-sized chunks. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 11:12, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
Did you try disabling "Hide subscription links from DiscussionTools if Bawl subscription links are enabled"?
No, I hadn't. This works very good with what I had in mind and also allows me to DT-unsub from anywhere if I so wish. I'd only wish to be possible to automatically DT-sub to sections when I interact with Bawl. However, there is a problem with it though as in some sections, when the title is long (?), it makes it hard to click the collapse/uncollapse arrow because it appears below the DT-(un)sub link.
For funky shit, see Funky Shit.
I didn't know the song although I like the band.
Probably a bug resulting from an undefined variable, but as I don't know how to reproduce this nothing I can do.
Is a loading problem, if that makes sense. Live preview fires up immediately but it's empty the first few milliseconds until it can start actually previewing. During that time, we get that word and then it disappears. Not really a problem. Klein Muçi (talk) 12:23, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
┌──────────────────────────────┘ PS: I tried editing my above DT-typed comment with Bawl. It only opens up for editing the last paragraph. I thought you should know. — Klein Muçi (talk) 12:27, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
In SqWiki the save button for settings is stuck at "account preferences" for me even though I've saved them 2-3 times globally. What do I do? :/ — Klein Muçi (talk) 12:31, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
Comment highlighting when clicked never fades until clicked again. Intentional? The (new) flag also takes ages to fade even though you lowered its time but maybe that's something user Qwerfjkl would like. — Klein Muçi (talk) 12:41, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
You post a new comment. The whole page reloads (you have that option on) and you get back to ninja mode (you have that option on). Maybe you shouldn't get ninja mode back in the cases when the reload is coming from Bawl and not from clicking the reload button on the browser? It isn't bad as it is. I just thought I'd tell you that as an idea. — Klein Muçi (talk) 22:20, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, I'd only wish to be possible to automatically DT-sub to sections when I interact with Bawl. Not happening. Bawl won't utilize DT in any way. You'll have to fork or create a module if you want that. it makes it hard to click the collapse/uncollapse arrow because it appears below the DT-(un)sub link. Jedi mind trick. Just click the text of the title. The whole header element (except for links within it) collapse/uncollapse the section. During that time, we get that word and then it disappears. Not really a problem. I've seen it now, only for new subsections. You actually got "undefined" twice like "undefinedSection Title Goes Hereundefined", it was a variable that represented the equal signs for the header markup but which wasn't defined. It only opens up for editing the last paragraph. I thought you should know. Known, WONTFIX. (see User talk:Alexis Jazz/Bawl/Archives/2022#Bug report: Bawl doesn't get tables) In SqWiki the save button for settings is stuck at "account preferences" Should be fixed. Comment highlighting when clicked never fades until clicked again. Intentional? Yes. What setting, if any, is prohibiting me to have permalink options in comments here {{Archive}} includes __NOEDITSECTION__. Without section edit links sections can't be processed. Best fix for that would be to hide section edit links instead of not having them at all, but this is beyond my control. Maybe you shouldn't get ninja mode back in the cases when the reload is coming from Bawl Could be argued either way, not planning to do anything about it. This thing needs to be finished. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 02:07, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
Jedi mind trick. That's what I've been using but I was wondering if another simple solution could be found to better align those elements. It looks like it can't, so... Should be fixed. I'm not sure. I saved the global settings in EnWiki multiple times and SqWiki keeps being unaffected and stuck on "account settings". What should I do so the EnWiki global settings affect SqWiki? — Klein Muçi (talk) 10:11, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
Just tried. (If you meant deleting erase other LocalStorage items.) Still doesn't work. I don't get my global templated answers and the button keeps being stuck on "account preferences". — Klein Muçi (talk) 23:50, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
You click the blue button to send the message. You are unfortunate and you get the kitten. You file a report and go back. The form is now frozen, the buttons are frozen and they accept no commands. You already fixed a similar case, can you also fix this one? — Klein Muçi (talk) 00:51, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, (If you meant deleting erase other LocalStorage items No, I meant restore all default settings (account preferences). Or you can save to your global preferences while on sqwiki. (you'll overwrite your global prefs with those from sqwiki though if you do that which you might not want) The form is now frozen, the buttons are frozen and they accept no commands. Done— Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 01:36, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
┌──────────────────────────────┘ Klein Muçi, is expected. Do you now see your global prefs on the wiki where you ran it? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 10:25, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
No... :/ I mean, I still haven't gotten the extra templated answer I have on EnWiki. That's what I use to "test" if it has worked or not. I can't really remember if any of the other settings has changed. But the button is still stuck on account preferences so I'm assuming that they haven't. — Klein Muçi (talk) 10:30, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
And reload the page. Otherwise, open tabs with sqwiki and enwiki, save to global preferences on sqwiki, save to global preferences on enwiki. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 10:39, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
Never mind. Apparently it happens only on User talk:Alexis Jazz/Factotum. You can scroll on the right side after, past the page margin. Sometimes that scroll happens automatically when "break ninja mode" and the page moves on its own, which is what I was reporting. — Klein Muçi (talk) 16:17, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
Another problem though: Every time you follow a DT notification, the comment gets double highlighted in 2 different colors which fade in 2 different times. — Klein Muçi (talk) 16:20, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
Bug: Live preview doesn't render namespaces of non-mainspace links added through the link form. It renders them correctly if entered manually though. — Klein Muçi (talk) 21:54, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
I never knew that the pipe trick worked like it does. Any elegant way for me to choose and leave the namespace when using the link form? I just delete back the pipe eh? — Klein Muçi (talk) 08:49, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
Factotum is pretty good in auto-doing things. The auto-summaries in comments are pretty good as you get a general idea of what has happened without needing to go to the post. I was wondering if it could be enhanced 1 more step further though: I think I'd like it if they could turn into wikilinks. You have added a new reply? You get parts of it in the summary automatically added which also works as a wikilink for the said reply. (Or even if the summary is manually added.) You have edited a comment? You get the words "edited a comment" in the summary automatically added which also works as a wikilink for the said edited comment. You get the idea. — Klein Muçi (talk) 09:08, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, interesting idea but too many ifs and buts. First of all, summary length is limited and a link can push it over the edge. Second, while Factotum comments indeed have an anchor in the form of the locator, the actual value isn't known until the comment is placed. Part of the locator is generated by substituting {{#time:xNU}} (1663162182). See mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions. But as ParserFunctions and substitution don't work in summaries the value can't be added there. Actually for edited comments it could work. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 13:29, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
I haven't stopped to make a mental list of all the different types of edits Factotum currently makes but I suppose they're not a lot. Replies, edits, ref-edits, "other" edits, "empty" edits (?)... That's all I guess, no? (If not even less.) The more information it can provide, the better. You do what you can. It's not bad as it currently is though. I'm guilty of rarely typing summaries so this has helped me a lot. — Klein Muçi (talk) 14:35, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
So... How do I use the browser/local preferences in the future? Do I have to do the console solution you described above or will the normal workflow work now? Also, I don't know why but Factotum malfunctions in all talkpages in SqWiki now. Lines fail to render in discussions, DT elements don't get hidden... I'm not sure what has happened. — Klein Muçi (talk) 14:41, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
There are times when this alignment happens which can be a bit confusing. Maybe something can be done to make it easy differentiating between the different bubbles and their functions? Increasing distance or size or darkening colors or any other change? - Klein Muçi (talk) 14:57, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, but I suppose they're not a lot There's a list in the code, search for "The following types exist". Do I have to do the console solution you described above or will the normal workflow work now? No idea why it ever broke for you. Maybe you did something wrong, maybe it was caused by the rename from Bawl to Factotum. Also, I don't know why but Factotum malfunctions in all talkpages in SqWiki now. Can't reproduce. Does nothing load? What is typeof FTT on the browser console? Say, oh dear Morpheus, do you have any keyboard shortcut for jumping from section to section in a page? Press ctrl+alt+k to take the red pill or darkening colors done — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 18:30, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
There's a list in the code Hah! Neat! What is typeof FTT on the browser console? Object. Well... Factotum does load with its icons and their functionality but the other problems are still there though. Upgrading global preferences here doesn't update them there either. Press ctrl+alt+k to take the red pill Question: Why K? done I think increasing a tiny bit the distance would be beneficial. Now it is distinguishable but the risk of misclicks is there. — Klein Muçi (talk) 22:35, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
I was wondering... Maybe we can/should show the number of "thanks" received for something (if n > 0) somewhere near that thing for the user who received them, similar to how Facebook shows likes? I don't know how beneficial/fun would that be... — Klein Muçi (talk) 22:55, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
Speaking of auto-summaries... Quotes get rendered strange there, only having a number before the quoted text. Since we use quotes a lot with Factotum, can't something be done for that? — Klein Muçi (talk) 23:58, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, Object. Well... Factotum does load with its icons and their functionality but the other problems are still there though. Upgrading global preferences here doesn't update them there either. But they are global in both places? Question: Why K? Oh, ctrl+alt+n doesn't seem occupied either. Okay, ctrl+alt+n it is. I think increasing a tiny bit the distance would be beneficial. User talk:Alexis Jazz/Factotum/Archives/2022#Report on visual issues 5 I was wondering... Maybe we can/should show the number of "thanks" received for something (if n > 0) somewhere near that thing for the user who received them, similar to how Facebook shows likes? User talk:Alexis Jazz/Factotum/Archives/2022#Feature suggestion: Comment thanks counter only having a number before the quoted text. Done— Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 05:20, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
Okay, ctrl+alt+n it is. How about ctrl+alt+n for going down and ctrl+alt+p for going upwards (next/previous)? How about ctrl+alt++ and ctrl+alt+- instead (+-) with the same logic? Also, try keeping ctrl+alt+n pressed in this page and watch what happens with the page. And yes, they are both global I suppose. The button at least says so. Preferences have been really strange lately. Even on the same project they don't get remembered many times. I need to re-save them a lot. SqWiki has this issue coupled with the other visual problems. — Klein Muçi (talk) 08:39, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
Minor visual issue: If you have the reply link from DT not hidden, the Done! Thank you for using Factotum. text becomes merged to it. Maybe 1 extra space should be added on the left side of D? — Klein Muçi (talk) 08:48, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
Check Special:Contributions/Klein Muçi. You'll see that many auto-summaries have <br style="margin-bott... in them which takes valuable space where more text from the actual post could have been present. Maybe we should do something about it as well like we did about quotes? Isn't there a "less-technical" way to set up vertical space anyway? Extra: Given that we're at it, take a general look at what other often used source elements of Factotum can be culled from autosummaries. — Klein Muçi (talk) 10:09, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
┌──────────────────────────────┘ Even more autosummary suggestions (which I don't fully support): When the paradigm "replying to xxx" is used, the user name can be:
Wikilinked (?) - Is there a way to not notify someone of being mentioned in the summary in this scenario?
Not wikilinked and somehow different when the conversation is happening in the said user's talk page (?) - This maybe would make the summaries in the /Factotum page appear a bit weird because of it being a subpage of your talkpage but that's a very edge case I suppose;
Changed to replying to self or ...to themselves when... Well, you can guess. (?) - This would make most of my autosummaries appear weird as 2/3 of my comments are self-replies.
Klein Muçi, The button at least says so. Preferences have been really strange lately. Even on the same project they don't get remembered many times. I need to re-save them a lot. I have no idea what you are doing or what's happening. To destroy all your preferences:
FTT.queueUpdatePref('options','userjs-Bawl','');<i>destroyaccountpreferencesFTT.queueUpdatePref('options','userjs-FTT','');FTT.queueUpdatePref('globalpreferences','userjs-Bawl','');</i>destroy global account preferencesFTT.queueUpdatePref('globalpreferences','userjs-FTT','');mw.storage.remove('Bawl');//destroy browser preferencesmw.storage.remove('FTT');
I'll try destroying everything and starting from scratch soon. In SqWiki Factotum is starting to break down completely. Now the summary field has been reduced to a little square similar to the tick box we use for noting minor edits and they have been merged, outside of the page margins. I'll postpone "the restart" until we manage to close the last remaining matters with Factotum (ref/notif/+1 bug ticket) so I don't accidently break everything apart now. I'm liking the newly added keyboard shortcuts. Pretty versatile. The Ctrl+Alt+N one though acts weird in this page. It can't touch the last section for some reason. — Klein Muçi (talk) 13:08, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
Never mind, the summary field bug happens even here. Try editing the whole page and most likely you will be able to reproduce it. - Klein Muçi (talk) 13:15, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, nope, but it happened when the main text input field was too high. I saw the same thing when I resized it. No idea why it happened for you. The Ctrl+Alt+N one though acts weird in this page. It can't touch the last section for some reason. You scroll to the previous/next headline that isn't already in the viewport. (there is otherwise realistically no way to know at which section you are) — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 16:02, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
I instinctively tried a couple of times hitting enter to close/open a highlighted section. Can that function be implemented and have the scrolling happen one by one (up or down) instead of the behavior you explained? Suggestion: If Ctrl+Alt+N is pressed, it starts at the top section of the current viewport and goes down from there. If Ctrl+Alt+P is pressed, it starts at the bottom section of the current viewport and goes up from there. If a certain section has been clicked (title/body), it starts from there. After releasing the triple keys, for the next "cycle", you either need to click again somewhere or the rules above take action. The summary/minor tick box are fixed but now they appear merged with the text field. I haven't been getting any pre-written text anymore in the replies. I don't wanna jinx it yet but maybe it is finally fixed... (At the risk of being kinda a broken record can we please use Ctrl+Alt+Up/Down Arrow together (instead?) with the current combination Ctrl+Alt+N/P? Again something I found myself instinctively doing for 2-3 times.) — Klein Muçi (talk) 22:13, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
This is what I get in my talkspace in SqWiki. It is a lineless combination of Factotum and DT.
In some other pages, the big arrow on top doesn't show up at all (like in here) or it shows and doesn't work (like in here - the lines are back here though).
Klein Muçi, can we please use Ctrl+Alt+Up/Down Arrow together (instead?) Certainly not instead, ctrl+alt+up/down is frequently used by the OS or graphics driver to switch between virtual desktops or displays. If Ctrl+Alt+N is pressed, it starts at the top section of the current viewport and goes down from there. No, that'll make it even more of an Easter egg as pressing ctrl+alt+N once would be pointless. But if ctrl+alt is held down you now advance only 1 section at a time. Not going to combine with clicking either, how is anyone supposed to figure that out? enter to close/open a highlighted section Done (only when holding down ctrl+alt) This is what I get in my talkspace in SqWiki. It is a lineless combination of Factotum and DT. Seems to work as advertised. You disabled "Hide reply links from DiscussionTools" (description just updated) which would hide DT's discussion activity when Factotum's discussion activity is enabled. You also enabled Factotum's discussion activity. And you enabled DT's discussion activity. So you get both. And DT destroyed all you lines, not me. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 20:17, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
Thanks for the enter function. It currently has 2 problems though. It knows no boundary below so for example, if you press ...+N 3 times after you've reached the bottom section, you need to press ...+P 4 times to go back 1 section above. On the other side, when pressing ...+P, after reaching the first section (top), it gets stuck on a loop going back and forth between the first and second sections.
As for Seems to work as advertised.... I'm not really sure about that. This didn't happen until some days ago and this doesn't happen here. I have the DT reply links active even here but I don't get the DT activity. Unfortunately, after your latest update, Factotum is gargantuanly broken for me even here (albeit in a different way). I've uploaded screenshots in the /Factotum subpage. Not only every element is jumbled on but I also get a Title section when replying comments as if I was creating new sections. Also settings don't work anymore. - Klein Muçi (talk) 22:36, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
Oh, wow! You've also implemented Ctrl+Alt+Up/Down! I pressed them again instinctively and randomly was made aware that they were working now. Thank you! I'm genuinely happy. - Klein Muçi (talk) 22:51, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, The summary/minor tick box are fixed but now they appear merged with the text field. Done, CSS typo. the big arrow on top doesn't show up at all (like in w:sq:Wikipedia diskutim:Kuvendi) DiscussionTools doesn't work there either. It would seem sqwiki switched from capitalized month names to uncapitalized month names, so none of the signatures could be detected. There being no signatures, Factotum decided it's not really a talk page and made nothing collapsible. Fixed the detection. or it shows and doesn't work (like in w:sq:Përdoruesi diskutim:Liridon - the lines are back here though). User has wrapped their entire talk page in a table. Which is evil. There's no obvious solution here. Merely making sections collapsible using a completely different strategy would be possible, but section reversal and automatically collapsing sections without new comments wouldn't work with that. Making the current system work on such pages.. meh. GIGO This is what I get in my talkspace in SqWiki. It is a lineless combination of Factotum and DT. You should've linked it, don't make me guess which page in your talk space it might be. The links you gave I followed, this one I had to search, turns out it's simply your talk page at w:sq:Përdoruesi diskutim:Klein Muçi#Pyetje nga Valdon Bytyçi te Cakë Kasum Bytyçi (16 maj 2022 16:56). So the problem is this: .ext-discussiontools-visualenhancements-enabled .ext-discussiontools-init-section:first-child takes away the border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1;. I have no idea why, the DT team probably had a reason. You have collapsible sections enabled in Factotum so the header is actually is the first child (of the section container) everywhere. As a result DT starts cutting itself and now I need to write medication. This didn't happen until some days ago and this doesn't happen here I'm guessing the DT team introduced the first-child CSS rule "some days ago" and enwiki is typically among the last projects to receive updates like this. but I also get a Title section when replying comments as if I was creating new sections Script likely halted by a JS error (title field is always loaded but hidden for comments, this was easier), I'd need to know where you were and which form you opened + browser console should provide a clue. The said function also highlights subsections. Should it? yes does pressing Enter do anything in there? no — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:19, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
Thank you for the detailed answer!
I was expecting Factotum to yield at that user's page as it belongs to an "odd trend" that was started back in the old days in SqWiki. There are a couple of users that have such user pages. Back then said users were really passionate about SqWiki in general and had fun dealing with such details, overcomplicating their userpages. Eventually though they discovered that once you start "going big" you start getting all sorts of problems, be those even plain maintenance ones. This + just time passing in itself withered that dedication and eventually we progressed in these days where the remaining few active users just do some automatic translations with WP:CX from EnWiki 90% of the time. Nostalgia over.
As a result DT starts cutting itself and now I need to write medication.
Interesting... I now have my lines back. I guess it serves me right for complaining about them. I still have double stats though. Is there any way I can cut those back while retaining the reply link? Again, this is something that I didn't have before (not in the recent days at least).
I'd need to know where you were and which form you opened + browser console should provide a clue.
Everywhere. In this page, all comments. In the /Factotum subpage. In my talkpage in SqWiki. Many other places in SqWiki. I'm using Google Chrome.
I get the title field, the live preview gets rendered below instead of above (even though I've chosen to have it above and it has worked fine for many days), the settings don't work and 2 new symbols appear jumbled in the settings and other icons close to them. This has made me unable to use Factotum these 2 days and I've been replying everything with DT.
Ctrl+Alt+Up/P still gets stuck in a loop in the first 2 sections.
And I'm sorry for the confusion I might have provided in the latest replies/reports. At the first few days, things were easier and more straightforward and that allowed me to notice everything in details and report them back as carefully as I could. Now there are many factors at play: The overall complexity has been raised, SqWiki & EnWiki have become unphased for me, regressions have started becoming more occurrent, you have been introducing some new "features", unrelated to my requests and DT has been on a transitory phase as well. In all that cacophony of change, it's becoming hard for me to "keep track" and understand what's going on and who's fault is for things so I've reported everything more or less as I've seen them, hoping for the best. - Klein Muçi (talk) 14:36, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
┌─────────────────────────────────┘ Klein Muçi, .. browser console, JS error/warning, report, go, do I still have double stats though. Is there any way I can cut those back while retaining the reply link? Best solution: disable DT's discussion activity in Special:Preferences. Alternative: put .ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar{display:none !important} in m:Special:MyPage/global.css. Alternative 2: use .FTTH2SectContainer .ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar{display:none !important} which will hide DT's discussion activity ONLY in sections made collapsible by Factotum. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 16:13, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
Thank you! The CSS hack fixed it. Can't Alt2 be a feature in Factotum? Almost every other feature of DT is detachable within Factotum's settings.
Klein Muçi, Can't Alt2 be a feature in Factotum? Almost every other feature of DT is detachable within Factotum's settings. There are already too many settings. Hiding DT's subscription links is a separate option because DT's subscription is server-side, so there's some advantage to that. There's generally no good reason to want discussion activity from both Factotum and DT. Your wiki-mentoring is really an exception for that, global.css is a reasonable alternative. Does this help? A lot! ReferenceError: PRM is not defined was easy enough to find in FTT.movePreviewAbove. The reading 'split' TypeError refers to FTT.stalkFoundContentSectionText not being a string. You probably didn't notice that one as it only affected subscription checking. I added a check that should make it skip an entry when this happens, but I can't troubleshoot the underlying issue. I'd need your subscriptions object for that. ( JSON.stringify(FTT.stalkGetSubs()) ) It's likely caused by some talk page with funny markup or other oddities. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:51, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
Currently speaking, I use DT for screenshot-posts. That is a function Factotum can't provide yet so even on my personal everyday life I need both ways. I understand what you mean with "there are already too many settings" but if I'm not wrong, this is the only one that is not part of the settings, no? I mean, we already mentioned subscriptions and reply links. We also have options for new topics/sections. (And even one for input boxes but that's not related to DT.) Maybe there is place for +1 more setting about DT/Factotum stats? (Maybe there are people who want to replace Factotum's stats with those from DT - even though there's hardly a reason to do that.) I'd need your subscriptions object for that. What would I need to do precisely for that? — Klein Muçi (talk) 01:36, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
Also Factotum apparently loads even while source editing the page in the native way. The same happens with VE. You can't click the buttons above (bubble/pencil). Klein Muçi (talk) 11:20, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, What would I need to do precisely for that? JSON.stringify(FTT.stalkGetSubs()) Currently speaking, I use DT for screenshot-posts. It's a copyfraud generator, that's what it is. Your screenshots are "own work" and CC BY-SA 4.0? Really? Maybe there is place for +1 more setting about DT/Factotum stats? There is, it's in Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing and it's called "Show discussion activity". Maybe there are people who want to replace Factotum's stats with those from DT In that case disable stats in FTT. While checking latest changes on SqWiki for maintenance purposes, I randomly stumbled upon this. Second screenshot doesn't seem particularly wrong (other link in the gray area doesn't work either) but fixed anyway. Documented first screenshot as unfixable for me: User:Alexis Jazz/Factotum/Mumbo jumbo#Known limitations and known unknowns. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 13:50, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
It's a copyfraud generator, that's what it is. I believe posting screenshots in public makes us all feel uneasy, generally speaking. They do provide ground for rudimentary traffic analysis. I've even thought about requesting deletion on everything after we are done but I worry about the holes in the archives. I wish I knew of a middle ground way that would leave archives intact while also making screenshots temporarily. It would be extremely useful for troubleshooting cases. I guess something like that could be implemented if we wanted, something that would replace the screenshot with something like "oops, expired" but that's another story. This is all beside the license issue you mention. There is, it's in Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing and it's called "Show discussion activity". I could do that but I have all my preferences global and I want to keep it like that because I start getting confused easily if my working environments are different. The problem is that I currently don't have Factotum globally installed (I have it only on here and on SqWiki) so removing them globally would leave me without stats in 99% of the projects. I also switch between Factotum and DT "often" because of the wiki-mentoring part. That's why I wanted an option precisely as your second alternative which can't be achieved in any other way beside the CSS hack you gave me. (I was too lazy to type all this down.) But I expect to eventually install Factotum globally so if you insist on that option not being welcomed in FTT settings, I guess the CSS way can suffice. — Klein Muçi (talk) 14:31, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
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Side note, I purposely put the syntax tags on different lines from the code inside it to see what would happen. It added some extra space, no? Is that normal? Also I believe you've noticed the summary about a bug in template code formatting in the /Factotum subpage, no? — Klein Muçi (talk) 15:27, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
Wow, what has happened to the code above... I had never seen what actually happened when you used the syntaxhighlight tags... — Klein Muçi (talk) 21:39, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
┌─────────────────────────────────┘ Can we change the live preview box itself somehow visually to indicate that it is disabled (when it is so)? I mean, beside the cross on the toggle. Maybe it becomes grayed out or something similar... — Klein Muçi (talk) 23:08, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
Really silly question but, uhm, why green? :P Why not a shade of blue? :P Personally I identify Wikipedia with blue and grey because of the Vector skin. — Klein Muçi (talk) 16:21, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, to avoid confusion with the main text field. FTT.smartTryNode won't be throwing errors anymore. I tested your subscription object, didn't find issues but I had already made various changes so.. I hadn't even noticed Factotum was uselessly collecting page titles of non-talk pages until I saw them in your subscription object. It no longer does that. The "deprecated ResourceLoader module" and "ext.popups was loaded but everything is disabled" warnings are unrelated to Factotum. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 17:54, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
Yeah, I was thinking of telling you about that when I noticed some names of articles in there but I wasn't sure if I was right in my deduction or not. Apparently I was. Can you also tell me a bit what's the matter with wikitext and syntaxhighlight tags? What is that red dot that appears? Why does the source code appear SO messy? Will the Recombine adjacent nowiki tags within syntaxhighlight. Neater wikitext, but when editing such a comment you may be greeted by #tag:syntaxhighlight instead of <syntaxhighlight> or nowiki tags may fail to be filtered out help in that? How exactly? Some more silly questions:
Can the browser search box (Ctrl+F) be made to search the collapsed sections somehow? I believe not, eh? All my life I've been used with Wikipedia having no collapsed sections and I was surprised one day not being able to Ctrl+F something that I was 100% sure it was in the page. After some tries I understood that it was because of that.
My talkpage in SqWiki appears with gigantic headers for me and I believe the same is true for other similar pages as well. Is that the same for you? I believe Factotum is not related to that but I'm not sure what might be affecting it.
After having answered all my requests these days, I'll go on and try to unify my preferences now. After that happens - which I hope won't take long - I'll do one final "general test" which will be accompanied with one final post similar to the old ones and that will conclude my testing with Factotum for PC. I don't use Wikipedia on mobile that often so I'm not gonna be too active on that. Most likely I'll just continue until solving the problem we already have on-going there because currently Factotum doesn't allow me to open any kind of section in mobile. I have to switch to desktop view if I want to read anything past the intro. — Klein Muçi (talk) 23:26, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
Oh, and also... Do you remember the autofocus problem with references? I noticed something odd. In the same page that this problems happens (w:sq:Harry Potter), clicking on the superscript numbers of references in the article also brings out problems in focusing the right reference below. It gets highlighted but not always autofocused. This is while being in ninja mode so I suspect the autofocusing problem may be bigger than Factotum itself. Maybe it has something to do with the page there being rather large. — Klein Muçi (talk) 23:36, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
I was able to quickly unify my preferences by using: FTT.queueUpdatePref('options','userjs-Bawl',''); FTT.queueUpdatePref('options','userjs-FTT',''); I wonder if the buttons for them work fine now but I don't wanna temp fate. Question: Can we utilize something visually like we did with the live preview to indicate with what part of text are we interacting with? Like, what kind of comment we are replying to or what kind of article section we are interacting with? Maybe just plain highlighting it? Can we also make the "Return to Factotum" magic link appear faster? I usually have to manually scroll a lot purposely when I have lost focus of the form so that I can trigger that. — Klein Muçi (talk) 02:01, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
I'm gonna get youKlein Muçi, What is that red dot that appears? What red dot? Why does the source code appear SO messy? Read the archives, I linked them before. Will ... help in that? Somewhat. How exactly? It will fetch a cold beverage from the fridge Can the browser search box (Ctrl+F) be made to search Short answer: no. Longer answer: yes, but you wouldn't be able see the result so that's worse. I believe Factotum is not related to that but I'm not sure what might be affecting it. Try without Factotum. If issue persists, WP:VPT. This is while being in ninja mode so I suspect the autofocusing problem may be bigger than Factotum itself. Can't reproduce. Try without Factotum. If issue persists, WP:VPT. I did however find that (kinda expected) it couldn't scroll to a reference if the reference section was collapsed. This has been fixed. indicate with what part of text are we interacting with? Done for comments. (which this is probably the most relevant for) make the "Return to Factotum" magic link appear faster? Faster how. You mean when you've barely scrolled it out of view? It isn't obnoxious enough as it is? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 13:08, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
What red dot? When I used the syntaxhighlight tags 2 literally red dots appeared in the beginning and in the end of the comment. This happened twice. They seemed to be used as markers of some sort but I don't understand their function. I generally feel the same as the cute video kitty in the whole syntaxhighlight thing. I activated that option because the code was super filled with nowikis (even though I'm not sure why, maybe it has to do with indentation?) but I don't know what exactly I'm trading off. The warning makes it look like I will have some "repercussions" but its description doesn't look like too bad at all. Maybe checking the archives will help as you said. Longer answer: yes, but you wouldn't be able see the result so that's worse. If that ^ could be paired with title highlighting of the section at words it would be perfect but I suspect that's not a possibility by the way you've talked about it. Try without Factotum. If issue persists, WP:VPT. Thanks. No change. Do the titles appear bigger for you though? So I know if it is only for me or not. Apparently your page here also appears bigger for me now. I suspect it is a DT change. Can't reproduce. Try without Factotum. If issue persists, WP:VPT. Neither can I - ref-linking works fine - so it is related to Factotum. Strange... It isn't obnoxious enough as it is? Apparently it wasn't. It's better now. I rely on that button too much. I do stuff above/below the text form and I expect to always have it there to jump me in the text form. Can you help me correlate the icons with the corresponding editors? We've got grey, black and colorful icon. Which one means which editor? It's been a while I'm trying to correlate them with the help of the popup message that issues when you click them but I suck at editor matters so... After playing with them a bit in this answer <br style="margin-bottom:0.5em"> was shown and it remained and still remains visible while editing this comment with the 2010 editor. Is that normal? Yesterday I noticed that there isn't any kind of autosummary on text removal. Maybe we can have some for section/comment removal/deletion? Anything else of the sort? — Klein Muçi (talk) 21:35, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
I did check the archives and found what you were talking about. Still not sure how nowiking everything helps with indentation but at least now I understand what's going on (even though I don't fully understand the red markers). I also understand the trade of with that button. Let's hope I won't need to re-edit THOSE comments. — Klein Muçi (talk) 22:15, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, They seemed to be used as markers of some sort but I don't understand their function. Neither do I. Screenshot? If that ^ could be paired Nope Do the titles appear bigger for you though? DT's discussion activity makes them appear bigger (or at least bold), maybe that's it. We've got grey, black and colorful icon. Which one means which editor? Code tag icon legend: Black: basic/default source editor. Gray: VisualLight (code icon is less intense/gray because it's visual) Colorful: 2010 wikitext (because that allows syntaxhighlighting through CodeMirror/CodeEditor) Is that normal? I've seen it happen, it's a bug but I can't reliably reproduce it so.. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 22:49, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, no. When analyzing the text I see some left-to-right mark control characters (like which some systems/browsers render as red dots), but Factotum doesn't contain any (I just checked) so you maybe copy-pasted them from somewhere else? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:23, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
When editing your comment above I see 3 red dots again so, we found them. As for copy-pasting them from somewhere... Most likely, yes. I did copy-paste that comment a lot around before putting it there. Mystery solved. — Klein Muçi (talk) 09:35, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
As suspected, we have a bug with the color tag icons. My comments start with the 2010 editor yet I get the black color icon. Then when clicking it again, I get the correct one for VL, when clicking it again, I get the black one again, this time correctly for the source editor and then when clicking it again, the correct one for 2010 comes, this time colorful. I suspect you've somehow made them start with the black one as a default one, no matter what editor is on. — Klein Muçi (talk) 09:41, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
Autosummary for (sub)section removal? For only adding link(s)/table(s)/image(s)? For only striking through content? For only mentioning someone? For only changing formatting of content? — Klein Muçi (talk) 09:58, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, bug with the color tag icons Yes. I suspect you've somehow made them start with the black one as a default one Not entirely, correct icon loaded if you set VL as the default. But if the default was the 2010 wikitext editor the label didn't update. Fun fact: the colorful variant uses actual CSS classes from CodeEditor/CodeMIrror. If you look closely you'd see the color differ on wikitext pages vs. JavaScript/JSON/CSS pages. If CodeEditor/CodeMirror aren't loaded (you can load the 2010 wikitext editor without loading CM/CE) the CSS classes aren't loaded and the label also stays black, indistinguishable from the source editor. So I've made it so the label appears slightly skewed (mimicking italic style) when the 2010 wikitext editor is active. Before you ask: yes, if you enable CM/CE when it wasn't loaded before the label suddenly gains color as the CSS styles gets loaded. And no, when you disable CM/CE again it doesn't turn back to black because the CSS styles are still loaded, and no, this will NOT be fixed. Autosummary for (sub)section removal? For only adding link(s)/table(s)/image(s)? For only striking through content? For only mentioning someone? For only changing formatting of content? There are three language data sources: 1. Imported from MediaWiki, currently 141 messages. Includes basic terms like "Submit", "Preview", etc. Cached in LocalStorage. I don't care how many of these I need, it's no burden. 2. Factotum's own user interface language data, currently 275 messages. This is the settings and everything else I couldn't find a substitute for in MediaWiki. I'd prefer to limit this as it puts a burden on translators. English in the main code, other languages imported from User:Alexis Jazz/Factotum-extra.js. 3. Messages that are exposed in edits, currently 14 messages but only about 5 typically require translation. Primarily edit summaries but also how for example a link to page history gets named. As they depend on the wiki content language the safest course is to include all in the main source. Considering how many languages there are, I care very deeply about keeping these to an absolute minimum. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 01:19, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
Hahaha, I didn't know that. That's actually cool! The 2010 editor-Factotum relationship is complicated and they normally have a lot of stuff to fix before it comes to that. When it comes to messages and languages, the way I've thought about it is this: Factotum will definitely become a gadget in the near future. At least I'm hoping to turn it into a gadget in SqWiki after we are done with the last list of requests + mobile problem(s). Considering that, I suppose there is no need to concentrate all the possible languages in its source code. Every wiki can just take care of their messages. Do I, the great supporter of global modules/templates/gadgets love this solution? No. The ideal one would be to have them all as part of 1 single place, like TranslateWiki, and every wiki can "take what it needs". But since that can't happen, having each wiki just localize their own messages, looks better than just having everything concentrated on a page that only a few people can edit. — Klein Muçi (talk) 09:07, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
┌─────────────────────────────────┘ Minor bug: 4 hyphens (-) in a row make a line. However the live preview thinks 3 hyphens are needed for that, not 4. — Klein Muçi (talk) 16:37, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
... For users who have activated the setting to be able to edit other peoples' comments... Different colors somewhere to differentiate self comments from foreign ones? — Klein Muçi (talk) 17:55, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, not a bug, that's Markdown (which you enabled). It just converts the three minus signs to four. But since that can't happen, having each wiki just localize their own messages, looks better than just having everything concentrated on a page that only a few people can edit. To a degree this is supported (messages can be defined in window.FTTWikiMsgsObj), but I'm not a big fan either. I've just further reduced these messages. Only three now typically need translation: "editing comment", "removed comment" and "editing references". Some summaries exist as Wikipedia:Canned edit summaries in the app (for which translations presumably exist), but these are (as far as I can tell) not available through the MediaWiki: namespace. MediaWiki:Gadget-defaultsummaries.js just has them hardcoded. Autosummary for (sub)section removal? For only adding link(s)/table(s)/image(s)? For only striking through content? For only mentioning someone? For only changing formatting of content? Removal of a section should generally be accompanied by a non-automated explanation. Most of the other stuff would be difficult to detect reliably, which would lead to confusion when it fails to detect the situation. There's no simple "diff" functionality. Different colors done — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:12, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
It just converts the three minus signs to four. Whaa... What?! Why? I had never noticed that. The edit-comment solution was elegant. I was mostly thinking of something happening after you click the button, in case you click it accidently but if you think that is enough, it's cool for me. I don't intend to use it that much personally. Maybe the line is a bit too long though? You decide anyway. — Klein Muçi (talk) 19:46, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
Some random ideas I thought that may help you as food for thought in the future:
Module dedicated to math notations. Currently Factotum offers no support in scientific writing of any kind (even superscript is "not supported"). Maybe math could be a good starting point and the idea is worth to keep in the modules' shelf.
Better support for syntax highlighting. A button that can surround a certain selected code in syntax highlight (or code) tags and, ideally, it can auto-detect and insert the language of the code. This is yet another way of "scientific writing" when you think about it.
A clipboard to save more than one copy-pasta.
Except for maybe the second idea, I'd personally almost never use any of the other ideas so I haven't put much thought on any of those three. Feel free to ignore them completely. Something that I might use though is a quote button that can turn selected text into a quote. Ever since we introduced the drag and drop quotes I've started relying on them a lot. There are times where it gets hard to drag and drop text though because it either is too high or I have Code Mirror on and it doesn't work. In these cases, I can just copy-paste it there in the native way and then use the quote button to convert it into a quote. — Klein Muçi (talk) 23:13, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
PS: The pipe trick works a bit in an unusual way if you use it on permalinks on Factotum. Not sure if that is intended or if Factotum has anything to do with it as this is the first time using it. — Klein Muçi (talk) 23:34, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, even superscript is "not supported" Already supported as an undocumented keyboard shortcut: Ctrl+. (period) Something that I might use though is a quote button that can turn selected text into a quote. Use a custom insert. somehow warn them if they try to edit a comment to add a mention Automatic WP:PINGFIX has been part of the script since.. February? PS: The pipe trick works a bit in an unusual way if you use it on permalinks on Factotum. Not sure if that is intended or if Factotum has anything to do with it as this is the first time using it. ? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 23:49, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
Already supported as an undocumented keyboard shortcut: Ctrl+. I never use it but I'd say to get away from Ctrl+/- as a combination altogether because in Chrome it enlarges the page and it is very hard to utilize. In this subject I'd also suggest Ctrl+Alt+pgup/pgdn as keyboard shortcuts for the top and the bottom of a discussion. (Anything exists to make the text larger/smaller?) Use a custom insert. Would I need to use 2 of them? Can I do it with only one somehow? Try getting a permalink from a section with Factotum and post it here. At its end append |text . Instead of having the whole link switch to the "text" you just inserted as it happens with all other kinds of links, you'll have the appended "text" appear in front of the link together with it. — Klein Muçi (talk) 00:01, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
When you double-click to break out of ninja mode, you immediately start replying now where you double-clicked. I suspect this won't be a problem, at least for me, but is that intended? — Klein Muçi (talk) 00:02, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, I'd say to get away from Ctrl+/- as a combination altogether tell that to the VisualEditor devs, I nicked the shortcuts from them. Would I need to use 2 of them? Can I do it with only one somehow? {{tq|1=FTTCRT}}:<<quote>> Try getting a permalink from a section with Factotum and post it here. At its end append |text . These links become named links. I had declared the pipe thing a happy accident, didn't I? Guess it doesn't always work. I suspect this won't be a problem, at least for me, but is that intended? Not specifically. Not sure I should bother trying to fix it though. Could be useful too I guess. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 00:41, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
Tell that to the VisualEditor devs, I nicked the shortcuts from them. Oh... {{tq|1=FTTCRT}}:<<quote>> Thanks a lot! Not specifically. Not sure I should bother trying to fix it though. Could be useful too I guess. 80% of the cases I try to remove the ninja mode is to reply to something, the other 20% is to change the settings. In both cases, I need the reply form open so for me is useful so far. I'll let you know if those percentages ever change. Just as a side info: After your fixes, never had a problem anymore with losing focus with ninja mode or having replies pre-quoted. I had declared the pipe thing a happy accident, didn't I? Guess it doesn't always work. I believe this is the only time when it doesn't. It would be cool if it could be made to work as the other cases but I guess it is not fixable. — Klein Muçi (talk) 08:52, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
Now that double-click=immediate reply, can we have the reply form immediately switch to editing (and vice-versa) if it is empty and I click the pencil? (Without having to first exit it and then click the pencil?) Or if it is deemed too problematic, can we have that as an extra opt-in? I keep trying to quick-switch and fail. :P Also, I may be just "seeing things" but the red line in </> when the 2010 editor is on looks more aligned to the right. Maybe it's an optical illusion because of the colors. — Klein Muçi (talk) 09:04, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, Check the big bubble and the pencil icons here: w:sq:Stampa:Cite book/doc The lock icon is in a fixed place: style="position:absolute; z-index:100; right:45px; top:-40px;". Not terribly much I can do about that. It can overlap with other stuff too. I'm not sure where this protected-icon is stored. The title doesn't localize, so probably not MediaWiki standard. section edit links in the live preview. Done have the reply form immediately switch to editing (and vice-versa) if it is empty and I click the pencil? For reply to editing this is Done as the pencil wouldn't do anything otherwise. But not vice versa. Adding a mention while editing a comment is a valid action. Also, I may be just "seeing things" I don't see it. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 00:39, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
┌─────────────────────────────────┘ Don't worry too much about that. SqWiki is full of legacy code junk and other oddities. I just showed you those to provide an extreme testing ground thinking you could maybe use some details to strengthen/reinforce Factotum for different situations regarding references. The overall idea is that new users will always expect to be able to hit edit and edit what they're seeing. They don't care about empty templates, transclusions, etc. So the more informative/guiding Factotum can be in these cases, the better. (To explain them what's going on and what they can do to remedy it.) You're right on the other details. I just keep forgetting about the reply link function because I don't use the transformed icons that much myself. — Klein Muçi (talk) 08:14, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
A desperate cry: After you managed to fix the reference problems with WP:VPT, I wonder if your collaboration with users there can fix other old problems as well which we've been forced to accept as unfixable.
Code Mirror being uncooperative;
Things being added by forms being un-undoable;
Permalink pipe trick failing;
Specific Ref-dropdown menu per sections
I've stumbled on the third problem more rarely but I stumble on problems with the first 2 entries and the last one everyday. Ever since you managed to remove all the glitches with ninja mode and DT, these have taken the crown (and I kinda believe the monarchy would die with them if they got fixed as well). Maybe they really are unfixable, I know close to nothing in JS but the last episode with references gave me hope. Side info: Some things can be undone if Code Mirror is on. Anyway, you know it better. — Klein Muçi (talk) 09:25, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
While typing the message above I discovered a strange behavior which might be a bug: Text - text - text (Enter on keyboard twice) Bullet point list Bullet point list Bullet point list (Enter on keyboard twice) Text - text - text When the second Enter is hit twice, after the list is over, we get double the vertical space when compared when the first enter is hit twice, before the list starts. This happens even with numbered lists. To get the same length I hit the second Enter only once. — Klein Muçi (talk) 09:31, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, After you managed to fix the reference problems with WP:VPT, I wonder if your collaboration with users there can fix other old problems as well which we've been forced to accept as unfixable. You give them a finger.. :-/ Code Mirror being uncooperative; NO Things being added by forms being un-undoable; rudimentary undo option added Permalink pipe trick failing; User:Alexis Jazz/Factotum/Custom inserts and replacements#Weird pipe trick To get the same length I hit the second Enter only once. Try never hitting it twice. Not worth the trouble to try and adjust. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 01:54, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
Rudimentary undo option added That's a big improvement! It has some issues though some of which I doubt are not intended even though you say it is rudimentary.
It does not work on the title/summary fields.
It doesn't detect mentions of any kind. So if you add 3 mentions and then happen to add a link and then click the undo arrow, the link + all 3 mentions will get undone from existence.
It does not detect autopost buttons changes, like the button you gave me to turn text into a quote. If you then undo something that gets detected, everything gets undone simultaneously, like explained above.
In replies, it doesn't detect anything happening before the initial "default" mention. You can add links there, quotes and whatever you want but they won't get seen by the undo arrow which will remain grey.
I'm not really sure about this but shouldn't it work with the Ctrl+Z keyboard combo? I use Ctrl+Z/Ctrl+Y a lot in my everyday life.
Continuing the logic above, I believe it is only natural to have a redo button which works with Ctrl+Y. Especially considering that the arrow's behavior is rudimentary/unpredictable. If something gets undone accidently (and, as said above, that happens quite often currently) there is no way to bring it back, which makes the whole experience a bit dangerous.
User:Alexis Jazz/Factotum/Custom inserts and replacements#Weird pipe trick Cool! I would suggest to add an explanation about utilizing the underscore to add multiple words as the renamed link though. I use that function a lot but I worry not all people will be aware of that. Example: LINK|Text_EvenMoreText_EvenMore
Some bugs and regressions which have been introduced lately:
When you click one of the text forms in the settings, all text forms expand. I click the one for custom regular expressions and the one for custom inserts gets expanded as well. This is good for me but I suspect it can be distracting for people if they have a lot of text in these forms as there can be a big shift.
Factotum's big pencil and speech bubble are again showing when source editing pages natively.
When clicking the magnifying glass for advanced options, pressing Esc doesn't close it individually anymore. It closes the whole settings.
Newly introduced sections don't get the Factotum header icons (link/bubble/pencil/bell) when the reparse happens. Sometimes (more often than not lately) newly introduced comments don't get autofocused/highlighted either.
Try never hitting it twice. I really am but I keep having to do manual formatting on every list before publishing a comment because in the end I notice that I have instinctively messed up all spaces in regard to that. I did the same here. — Klein Muçi (talk) 09:03, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, Specific Ref-dropdown menu per sections Currently references in HTML are mapped to references in wikitext. Your request would require the reverse of that which would be yet another enormous pain and virtually none of the existing code will help to make it happen. Could be done as a module I suppose. double the vertical space User:Alexis Jazz/Factotum/Custom inserts and replacements#Bad habit of multiple newlines after a list doubt are not intended even though you say it is rudimentary. A revision was only saved every 10 seconds, no logic otherwise. It now also saves for various events. When you click one of the text forms in the settings, all text forms expand. not anymore Factotum's big pencil and speech bubble are again showing when source editing pages natively. Where/how/what exactly? When clicking the magnifying glass for advanced options, pressing Esc doesn't close it individually anymore Not sure it ever did. It does now Newly introduced sections don't get the Factotum header icons (link/bubble/pencil/bell) when the reparse happens. Switch to "parse comments in place (fast)". When sections are parsed in place with the default option they don't get the header icons, that's just too problematic and generally not really needed: you probably won't need a permalink for what you just posted, if you enabled auto-subscription you are already subscribed and instead of editing the section you can edit the comment which includes everything but the header. There are times when the autofocus magic link fails to load. Is there any pro tip to force-trigger it? fixed ARCHIVE? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 01:46, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
Could be done as a module I suppose. That sure is a module I'd love. User:Alexis Jazz/Factotum/Custom inserts and replacements#Bad habit of multiple newlines after a list Thank you! I have a request here though: Is there a way to introduce comments in the text forms in the settings? As more templated answers and especially regex lines get written there, I will eventually forget what they serve for. A revision was only saved every 10 seconds, no logic otherwise. It now also saves for various events. It still has some problems:
It doesn't work on dragged and dropped text/quotes;
It doesn't work on basic copy-pasting;
It doesn't work on the first mention link in forms where there is not a default mention link;
It doesn't work on mentions done by the arrows beside comments;
It doesn't work on the first link inserted by triggering the form opening with manually inserting double brackets;
It doesn't work on basic typing;
It doesn't work on replaced text from the replace function;
It strangely has a limited number of tries that can be used. You type something, you undo it, you can redo it and then you can't undo it anymore. Usually I make use a lot of the undo/redo loop to see how something changes. The loop is broken here.
I'm not sure how exactly it works with the keyboard combinations. Let's say you have typed text in the body and in the in the summary, in that order, and your cursor is in the summary. You hit Ctrl+Z. What happens? Does the text in the body get reversed because of chronological order or does the one in the summary get reversed because of the cursor focus? What if cursor is neither in the body, nor in the summary?
Extra questions: Why is the redo button a child of undo in settings? Is there a way to have the same functionality without having the buttons at all, using just the keyboard shortcuts? Where/how/what exactly? Check here: Special:Diff/1110925293#mw-diff-ntitle1 There's a screenshot. I vaguely remember you writing that you had fixed that. I may be wrong. Lately I've started noticing 2 weird behaviors:
Sometimes link autoconversion will give a full link enclosed in square brackets for me which "doesn't allow" for the weird pipe trick. Some other times the underscore will get rendered as a literal underscore instead of working as a way to connect the words of the link's title.
Even more weirder: Sometimes text characters will get inserted automatically on their own while I'm typing. It does look a bit like some form of correction is happening in the background as sometimes I'll get a switched to an but maybe that's a coincidence. I'm genuinely starting to think it may be my laptop's fault at this point.
In regard to archiving, I'll keep needing a place to discuss about the features/details of Factotum's work which aren't as serious as to be included in its own talkspace. Things like requesting help about specific configurations, etc. I guess we can archive this soon and I can start a new post... — Klein Muçi (talk) 08:56, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
The move feature and the 2 buttons for generating list of links are some of the only utilities that are built in the default version and have no toggle to be switched off. I wanted to remove the said 2 buttons for lists because I don't think I'll use them in my everyday routine but I found out I couldn't. (I was studying the interface related to Find and Replace regexes.) I also think there will be users that won't be needing to move sections that much in their everyday usage so I think both those utilities should be made with toggles. — Klein Muçi (talk) 15:39, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
Unfortunately User:Alexis Jazz/Factotum.js (Diff ~1112707174) is not what I requested. I wanted to remove only the buttons for generating lists and the move features. I want the regex feature, I use it often. That's how I started thinking about removing them in the first place. I was imagining the place there free from those features to be able to be utilized by regex success/fail messages. However I think the "grand toggle" can be a good thing towards mobile users. Can we give its children "mini toggles" as well? You've done exactly that. Only the move function has no toggle on its own. — Klein Muçi (talk) 17:59, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, Is there a way to introduce comments in the text forms in the settings? You can now append a label (same syntax as button labels) which will be ignored. dragged and dropped User:Alexis Jazz/Factotum.js (Diff 1112688623) It doesn't work on basic copy-pasting; Wrong, that already worked when you posted that It doesn't work on mentions done by the arrows beside comments; User:Alexis Jazz/Factotum.js (Diff 1112695666) It doesn't work on basic typing; You are too impatient to wait 10 seconds It doesn't work on replaced text from the replace function; User:Alexis Jazz/Factotum.js (Diff 1112688623) Usually I make use a lot of the undo/redo loop to see how something changes. Always a bad idea as redo breaks when the text changes The loop is broken here. less broken now Just ignore the "first x" stuff, it's complicated. Professionals are paid muchos pesos to spend weeks to implement undo/redo functionality, you just asked me to implement undo/redo and completely abandon the undo/redo functionality from the browser because it misbehaved. It's been 2 days, cut me some slack What happens? Same tech as how it determines in which field to insert markup/inserts/links/etc Is there a way to have the same functionality without having the buttons at all, there is now Check here: Special:Diff/1110925293#mw-diff-ntitle1 There's a screenshot. Link, which editor are you using (2010/2017 wikitext/2017 visual), new screenshot Sometimes link autoconversion will give a full link enclosed in square brackets for me which "doesn't allow" for the weird pipe trick. No reproduction steps Some other times the underscore will get rendered as a literal underscore instead of working as a way to connect the words of the link's title. Enable "Run URL rewriting again after processing markup" (see updated instructions at User:Alexis Jazz/Factotum/Custom inserts and replacements#Weird pipe trick) It does look a bit like some form of correction is happening in the background as sometimes I'll get a switched to an Wikipedia:Don't use Grammarly But I guess this is just Wikipedia:Regextypofix at work. (which you enabled) Should be reflected in the edit summary. In regard to archiving, I'll keep needing a place to discuss about the features/details of Factotum's work It would be SO AWESOME if I didn't have to track two pages for this. Only the move function has no toggle on its own. wrong — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:21, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
You can now append a label (same syntax as button labels) which will be ignored. Does this work with custom inserts as well? Have I done it correctly: /(^|\s)(http<s>?:\/\/[^\s\|]+)\|([^\s]+)/$1$2 TAILPIPETRICK$3/g:<<Weird pipe trick>> As for all the other functions in regard to undo/redo... I keep having the same problems. I waited 20 seconds before doing anything and then started testing. Nothing. I did the test and then waited 20 seconds. Again nothing. There is no way for me to trigger the undo arrow with plain testing, copy-pasting, etc. I must be doing something wrong. ¡Muchos besos para ti! I was excited to learn that you managed to solve the undo/redo problem. Even if that meant totally recreating it from scratch. I have no idea what you're talking about here though: Just ignore the "first x" stuff, it's complicated Link, which editor are you using (2010/2017 wikitext/2017 visual), new screenshot 2010 source code I suppose. Link = any page, use the one here as an example. The header icons of Factotum get (even more) greyed out but stay there. Maybe that's okay though. No reproduction steps Apparently it happens with all diff links for me. Open a diff link of any kind from EnWiki or another wiki and copy paste the link in this page as a comment. But I guess this is just Wikipedia:Regextypofix at work. (which you enabled) Should be reflected in the edit summary. Could be. I'm not sure how it exactly works though. For example, I keep having the word problem switched to probablem. How is that a typo fix? Maybe is it trying to get "probably"? It would be SO AWESOME if I didn't have to track two pages for this. After the things we're discussing currently are over then I'll try to use only that page for Factotum discussions. The discussions may start getting out of subject though and therefore get longer. Only the move function has no toggle on its own. wrong It is indeed wrong but the toggle doesn't work. That function is always on, no matter what you do. Also I'm not sure if the block function works. I have it active on SqWiki where I am an admin and I see no changes. I'm not sure what I should be looking for. — Klein Muçi (talk) 22:57, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, ¡Muchos besos para ti! Muchos gracias Have I done it correctly: Look good, if it still works then yes "Just ignore the "first x" stuff, it's complicated" Never mind that, it's fine 2010 source code I suppose. In that case I don't see the problem. The linked screenshot shows the 2017 wikitext editor though. Link = any page Link means link. Not "any page", because the page I pick will just happen to be one where the behavior can't be reproduced. use the one here as an example "the one here"? Apparently it happens with all diff links for me. Open a diff link of any kind from EnWiki or another wiki and copy paste the link in this page as a comment. Provide a sample link+surrounding text (if any), explain exactly what happens (what does "autoconversion will give a full link enclosed in square brackets" mean? what is the result?) For example, I keep having the word problem switched to probablem. How is that a typo fix? Maybe is it trying to get "probably"? Disable "Automatically apply AutoWikiBrowser RegExTypoFix", enter problematic text, magnifying glass, press "AWB RegExTypoFix". It should tell you which rules matched. You can test if it works correctly by entering "porblem" which will be corrected to "problem" on English Wikipedia. Or <!-- dummy edit --> which will vanish. Could be a browser bug or a bug in RegExTypoFix. It's not unheard of. The discussions may start getting out of subject though So please start new sections for new issues. That function is always on, no matter what you do. fixed I have it active on SqWiki where I am an admin and I see no changes. Try on some poor sap's user talk page. (not your own) — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 00:20, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
The linked screenshot shows the 2017 wikitext editor though. Well, that then. I haven't changed it and I suck at telling them apart. "the one here"? Yes. This page where we currently are talking: User talk:Alexis Jazz. Source edit the whole page with the 2017 wikitext editor. Provide a sample link+surrounding text (if any), explain exactly what happens (what does "autoconversion will give a full link enclosed in square brackets" mean? what is the result?) Well, I can't even copy the original link because it gets conversed automatically into this: Përdoruesja diskutim:Vyolltsa (revision 2477174) (check the source code). There was an URL in there similar to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Alexis_Jazz&diff=1112761618&oldid=1112752355&diffmode=source I can't easily rename either of those links. And I don't know why sometimes they get conversed and sometimes they don't. Try on some poor sap's user talk page. I did. I still see nothing. — Klein Muçi (talk) 00:44, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, because it gets conversed automatically Just enclose it in brackets yourself, like [51]. And I don't know why sometimes they get conversed and sometimes they don't. The link with the "diffmode=source" appended can't be converted to an internal link as the "diffmode" argument can't be passed. I did. I still see nothing. You pressed the magnifying glass? No extra options? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 05:20, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, Well, that then. I haven't changed it and I suck at telling them apart. I can ONLY reproduce this by visiting an edit link directly or opening it a new tab. Effectively, Factotum has to be loaded after VE/2017 wikitext editor has already loaded. A rather crucial detail. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 07:52, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
You pressed the magnifying glass? I did now. I see it. Cool! I guess you already know that there are 2-3 features missing from it when compared with the native block page no? I don't deal with anti-vandalism that much myself so for me is no big deal but I suppose the admins who do, might want to have them. I'm talking about sitewide/partial blocks, reasons, etc. In regard to the undo/redo functionality, everything seems to work now beside the loop. — Klein Muçi (talk) 09:33, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
┌─────────────────────────────────┘ Klein Muçi, I'm talking about sitewide/partial blocks, reasons, etc. It's just a quick way to block/unblock with the most commonly used options. Edit summary gets used as the reason. You need more, go to Special:Block. everything seems to work now beside the loop. No reproduction steps. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:25, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
You need more, go to Special:Block. Maybe a link should be provided for that then? (I am aware of the existing native one.) No reproduction steps. It is now fixed. Typo in User:Alexis Jazz/Factotum.js: A copy of text you were working on but haven't submitted has been found. Restored this copy? — Klein Muçi (talk) 23:06, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, Maybe a link should be provided for that then? (I am aware of the existing native one.) I think that might be confusing. And if you need the additional settings, why would you bother pressing the magnifying glass at all? Typo in User:Alexis Jazz/Factotum.js Fixed. But with a typo in the edit summary, oh well ARCHIVE? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 23:57, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
I just noticed you can type on the dropdown menu. I thought that would quickly select the time range for the block but it doesn't. Shouldn't it? What does the typing serve for per se? Does it allow for custom time ranges? — Klein Muçi (talk) 01:50, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
When I try to edit references, the normal editing window appears, exactly equivalent to clicking the edit full page option, except for a pre-filled edit summary, Editing references
On full page.and section edits, the 3 rightmost icons don't show: a magnifying glass, </>, and a cogg. ―
Qwerfjkl, 1. Where? Typically the reference in question should be selected in the text. 2. Screenshot? Since when? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 20:00, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, 1. So you go to Search engine cache and try to edit the first reference and it won't select it? Which editor do you see, source or 2010 wikitext? If 2010 wikitext, does it have CodeMirror enabled? (reference selection is known to be broken with CodeMirror so it should be suppressing CodeMirror, but maybe that failed) Otherwise, I assume this is still your Amazon Silk tablet thingie? Can you try another device? Maybe Amazon devices can't visibly select text or something.. I'd be interested to see what Bawl.UITextInput.getRange() is after opening a form to edit a reference. 2. Again, screenshot? Have you looked at the HTML, assuming the icons are actually there, where are they hiding? I obviously can't reproduce it as I update Bawl using Bawl and would have noticed. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 21:44, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz, I've now disabled the module and the problem persists, but only intermittently (out of ten attempts, it worked twice, seemingly randomly). I'm using source editor. ― Qwerfjkltalk06:23, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, does it randomly work/not work on the same reference? The detection isn't perfect (there is no solid connection between parsed references and references in wikitext) but should be closer to 9/10 than 2/10. Your issue with the missing icons sounds serious, but I really really need more info. I have no idea what's going on or why that would happen. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 08:17, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz, for the missing icons issue: as far as I can tell, it's due to the limited screenwidth. The text box stops at the link icon (rightwise); it doesn't expand (right) past it. ― Qwerfjkltalk15:16, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, it worked on refs 1 and 3 once (or twice), but failed when I tried again. what if you press the edit marker next to a ref and after the form has opened you press the edit marker again? Note that with an open form you can press any reference edit marker, no need to close or reload the form. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 03:06, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz, sorry.for the delay. I've done some.more testing, and it seems to work on my laptop (I have the 'overwrite page content' setting, but it still worked when I disabled that and clicked on the edit marker twice. On my tablet, however it worked intermittently: sometimes the editbox jumped below the page, and the ref was.highlighted, but sometimes the edit box overwrote the page content (as usual), and the ref wasn't highlighted. My settings are:
By which I mean highlighting the reference in the wikitext. The scrolling is also better than before, but only works ~1/3 of the time. — Qwerfjkltalk20:21, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, I see the same issue on my phone now. Unfortunately I'm completely clueless as to why. Reference is never selected when opening the form and tapping an edit reference icon with an open form rarely works. Zooming in on the reference edit marker before tapping it seems to help, but why that helps is a mystery to me. I can activate the link without zooming in, it's not that I mistap. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 14:59, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, I'm starting to doubt the original problem is fixable. I have no idea why it happens or why zooming in helps. I have however added a reference dropdown below the text input and selecting a reference from that works every time on my phone. Maybe it works for you too? Maybe this helps Klein Muçi as well? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 18:48, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, unfortunately, no. The dropdown is a very neat idea and I love it but:
The chevron in it overlaps with the ref-title for me;
The drop-down actually overlaps with the text form above completely and I have no idea if what I'm seeing is the dropdown of references or the actual text (it needs some background color or some lines between entries I suppose);
Tested in the w:sq:Harry Potter article, NO reference at all gets highlighted from the dropdown.
I'm also not entirely sure how do you access it? Do you need to edit 1 reference to open it? Opt-in to have it always there when editing sections/whole page? — Klein Muçi (talk) 19:05, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, The chevron in it overlaps with the ref-title for me; OOUI issue I suspect. The drop-down actually overlaps with the text form above completely and I have no idea if what I'm seeing is the dropdown of references or the actual text (it needs some background color or some lines between entries I suppose); May vary from device/browser to device/browser. If you can't tell the difference between OO.ui.MultilineTextInputWidget and OO.ui.DropdownInputWidget that's another OOUI issue. Tested in the w:sq:Harry Potter article, NO reference at all gets highlighted from the dropdown. Some of them don't work (known limitations), but those that are named/have a URL/long number seem fine. Do you need to edit 1 reference to open it? Correct. Opt-in to have it always there when editing sections/whole page? I was already planning on the preference, though it may be confusing for sections as you'd always see the full list of references, not just those within the section. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:33, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, you'd always see the full list of references, not just those within the section, ah! That's sad. I was hoping the contrary of that would be true. Only when full page editing then. The chevron doesn't overlap anymore. But when the list is being "dropped up" the situation is bad. Oh well I guess. Some of them don't work (known limitations), but those that are named/have a URL/long number seem fine. Tell me one number so I can try it. I tried a lot and not one worked. Extra: The truncation of references seems pretty random. Can a kind of standardization be applied to it? For example, only showing the author + year or something like that? What happens with grouped references? Do they get listed multiple times? Also, would it be possible to somehow show the ones that have problems? Maybe color them red? I guess not but a man can hope. :P — Klein Muçi (talk) 19:43, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, For example, only showing the author + year or something like that? I'm not gonna bother with that. Factotum is clueless about those things. It just takes the innerText and cuts it off after 120 characters. Try
on the browser console. Increase the first [0] for the next reference. What happens with grouped references? What do you mean? Like when you have a, b, c, d? You only get the "real" reference. Also, would it be possible to somehow show the ones that have problems? Maybe color them red? Hmm, maybe, not sure. Color would be problematic though. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:54, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I see. That was just an example though. I don't mean for Factotum to understand parameters as we already said it doesn't. I meant a standardization process whatever, even with "made up names" (not really but just to give the idea), same as Wikipedia uses numbers (1, 2, 3...) to "standardize its references". Something unique and easy instead of the long 120 character strings. But if nothing better can be found, the string should at least end with an ellipsis. And no, it doesn't have to be color either. You decide. You know I deal with ref-fix situations. I just want to be able to quickly get to the ones that are problematic somehow. — Klein Muçi (talk) 22:04, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz, aaa! We can see problematic references now! Yay! AAA! They're highlighted with the curly red underline, same as typos in all browsers further confusing their appearance with the article text when the list is dropped up. They get highlighted for me now (Code Mirror was the problem apparently) but still not a single one gets autofocused. Tried in different articles. Also no ellipsis. Unrelated: I love the overall UI changes you've done, in the ref-list and more. The 2 buttons in the live preview are the only ones without a box when clicked though. — Klein Muçi (talk) 22:49, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, Something unique and easy instead of the long 120 character strings. You'd rather have a list of numbers than a list that actually allows you to identify the reference? But if nothing better can be found, the string should at least end with an ellipsis. Done, can still overlap the chevron which I can't do much about I think. They get highlighted for me now (Code Mirror was the problem apparently) but still not a single one gets autofocused. But they ARE selected? Blame your browser/CodeMirror switch/OOUI. Browsers make it difficult to scroll a textarea. The 2 buttons in the live preview are the only ones without a box when clicked though. They were the only ones not using OOUI, now they do. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 10:42, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz: You'd rather have a list of numbers than a list that actually allows you to identify the reference? Please no. :P That was just an example, a very bad one. It is good as it is. But they ARE selected? Yes, they are. That's what I've been saying ever since I wrote the raport on references. They get selected but not autofocused. Even the newly "Go" button does nothing. Which is strange in my eyes as Factotum is really good at autofocus matters in general. I'm surprised it can locate them but not go to them. The article's text never moves an inch whatever reference you choose. But if you scroll down in it, you can find them selected. I tried turning off code mirror, switching to the source editor but still the same problem. They were the only ones not using OOUI, now they do. That's cool but... They have a permanent enormous grey-padding box around them. Couldn't they behave the same as the other buttons that only get outlined in a transparent small box when clicked? It feels a bit excessive. — Klein Muçi (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
┌───────────────────────────┘ Klein Muçi, Couldn't they behave the same as the other buttons that only get outlined in a transparent small box when clicked? The initial plan was to set framed to false, but when I tried it with frame I was pleasantly surprised. It's much cleaner. No longer need to mess with the background. Also notice how much nicer this when the buttons are sticky in side-by-side mode. Anyway, try the new frameless float option. Which is strange in my eyes as Factotum is really good at autofocus matters in general. File a ticket against OOUI and/or your browser. Factotum just calls selectRange(), after that it's out of my hands. Try it yourself:
Alexis Jazz, that's even more cool BUT... I use the middle icons with the bar so there's still no solution for me. :P Try it yourself I did but I'm not sure what to exactly expect to happen. And just to be clear on what I'm saying (and I believe Qwerfjkl is also saying), references usually get highlighted and they usually don't get autofocused but with the drop-down menu (or maybe ever since the update that brought that feature) they never get autofocused anymore, not a single one of them. — Klein Muçi (talk) 09:54, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, exactly the same thing that happens with references. They get selected but it doesn't scroll at all. Except for the first time when it always scrolls to the bottom no matter what button you click. — Klein Muçi (talk) 23:17, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz, needless to say, references are fixed everywhere for me now. Thanks a lot for not giving up and thank you to the contributors who helped! I have a question: I don't believe Factotum can do much in locating (and marking as containing errors) references such as those in these kinds of articles, no? w:sq:Gjitarët e Shqipërisë — Klein Muçi (talk) 16:54, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, broken how/where? Don't assume I can reproduce issues when the issue is "it's broken". Never mind, I see, but please be more descriptive. Edit: Done — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 21:06, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I'm sorry for the inconvenience. I normally would be descriptive. This time I used that kind of writing for dramatic effect because I thought you'd immediately understand what went wrong given that you had made only 1-2 changes to the source code before the regression happened. Thank you for the refix! The w:sq:Gjitarët e Shqipërisë - case is now better supported as well. But in the dropdown some template names appear, (which are templates that have been used as references). Is that intended? Shouldn't they be red because they are problematic? Or are we reserving the red color only for CS1 problems? — Klein Muçi (talk) 21:51, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, those templates are just redlinks: <span class="reference-text"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Stampa:Ouvrage&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Stampa:Ouvrage (nuk është shkruar akoma)">Stampa:Ouvrage</a></span>. They get detected now. Most references in that article are titled "UICN (number)" and missing. The article was presumably translated from another wiki where those references were generated by a template. Either import the template or wipe the missing references by editing the full page, clicking the magnifying glass and entering /<ref name="UICN [0-9]+" \/>/g and hitting "replace" without entering a replacement. Check the diff before you submit. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 22:57, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, That's apparently coming from Code Mirror being active on that namespace. CodeMirror now at least tries to scroll to the right line. Do empty ref tags get detected as problematic as well? No, they don't show in the references. Should Factotum do something when trying to edit references (or anything else really) in such cases: w:sq:Stampa:UEFA Euro 2016 qualifying Group G/doc Transcluded, nothing I can do other than tell you to edit the references on w:sq:Stampa:UEFA Euro 2016 qualifying Group G instead. How about fixing problems with the references in here: w:sq:Stampa:Cite book/doc (the examples) There are no references on that page. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 01:50, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz: CodeMirror now at least tries to scroll to the right line. Can we get it auto-disabled when trying to edit references as it happens when you're on other namespaces? I always have to disable it anyway as it never works. And then click somewhere on the text form and then click go. All these extra actions... — Klein Muçi (talk) 08:23, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, auto-disabled when trying to edit references as it happens when you're on other namespaces Should be done Can they be? no — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 00:54, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
┌───────────────────────────┘ Alexis Jazz, it is. And I get your point but I asked because from my perspective they are all citations/sources/references I need to fix because they render CS1 errors and get categorized in the CS1 maintenance categories. This is probably a long shot but I'm gonna try my luck anyway: Would it be possible to somehow filter the references in the dropdown menu by the type of CS1 problem they have? It would be very helpful in category-cleanup initiatives. Also after saving the edit, the pencil will fail to render beside the references until you reload the whole page. — Klein Muçi (talk) 09:37, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
Some regressions were introduced in regard to references:
Problems are usually failing to be marked in red;
When saving ref-fixing edits, if working fast, Factotum will start getting confused and a notification popup will come up telling you about how the page was changed (by you). The same thing that happened before in talkspace that you fixed.
Not sure if a bug but while editing you'll keep getting the pencils beside the references.
Klein Muçi, Problems are usually failing to be marked in red No link, no example, no nothing When saving ref-fixing edits, if working fast, Factotum will start getting confused and a notification popup will come up telling you about how the page was changed (by you) Just ignore it. (just re-submit) Probably no easy way to fix. Sure I could assume you won't care if the last revision is by you, but that wouldn't account for edits in between you could have missed. Maybe I could store all submitted lines and check against those, not sure. Not sure if a bug but while editing you'll keep getting the pencils beside the references. Whatcha mean Would it be possible to somehow filter the references in the dropdown menu by the type of CS1 problem they have? It would be very helpful in category-cleanup initiatives. Help:Citation Style 1 "Citation Style 1 (CS1) is a collection of reference citation templates" not MediaWiki standard, also you heard Trappist the monk. Also after saving the edit, the pencil will fail to render beside the references until you reload the whole page fixed — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 02:06, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz: No link, no example, no nothing I would have provided more information but I couldn't isolate the problem that cleanly. I passed through 2-3 pages which showed only 1 reference marked in red when seen in the drop-down menu but when not editing way more errors would be showing. The problem, as you say, is that CS1 is not equal to references de jure (although it is de facto in many wikis - I've tried making this area less grey in the past - Link), it doesn't normally show all errors (maintenance problems don't normally produce an error message by default even though I've chosen to see them) and also Factotum "doesn't care" for some kinds of ref tag problems. This confuses me because, as I said, from my perspective those are all "ref problems" and I don't differentiate between them in my everyday wikiroutine so it is a bit hard for me to exactly put in words what is happening. It may very well be that what I may call "a bug", may be "a feature". I tried with my suggestions to create a "less-chaotic" atmosphere around references but... I'll try to get used more to it and give back better reports. Just ignore it. Easier said than done. Given that I can't differentiate between error types I have to save multiple times in a row to be sure that I've fixed every error in an article that belongs to 1 specific type of category and thus have succeeded in removing that article from the category. The popup would be accompanying me in every edit or every two edits basically. Your solution about identic lines looks way more elegant that what I'm about to suggest but can't you just change the scanning time between edits so that I won't have to wait that long to not trigger it? Whatcha mean You open a reference for editing. This basically opens up all the page for editing and for me things get arranged like this: Live preview - Text form - Article (from top to bottom) If you scroll down to Article and scroll even more down to its references, you'll see the pencils beside its references that normally would allow you to edit a certain reference (what you are already doing). — Klein Muçi (talk) 08:06, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, The popup would be accompanying me in every edit or every two edits basically. Nothing I can reproduce but theoretically fixed you'll see the pencils beside its references that normally would allow you to edit a certain reference (what you are already doing). And if you click any of them they get selected in the open form — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 22:20, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz, hmm, seems it was just from switching devices (the page is the Vector 2022 RfC). When the issue has happened in the past I've waited weeks to report it (out of laziness), so I wanted to be quicker this time. Oh well. — Qwerfjkltalk20:34, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, if you viewed a page one device, then switched to another and either: A. The page isn't on your watchlist B. It's the first page you visited (and allowed to fully load) on that device in 10 minutes it would be expected for lastviewed to be incorrect. The second case would be solved by that Phab task. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 21:59, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, glad it's (probably) not another bug. Some background info: lastviewed is saved in localStorage (which doesn't cross devices) and periodically supplemented with wl_notificationtimestamp from the watchlist API. For the first page you visit on a device/browser after having used another device/browser the API request won't return anything for that particular page as you're viewing it right that moment. This is one of the reasons the watchlist API request always happens in the background, Factotum starts adding icons/marking comments as new without waiting for the server to answer. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 07:46, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, longer answer: ninja mode prevents searchNodeContentsLoop from running, so comments/headers/etc aren't processed at all. They can't be processed selectively either. You just have to break cover and leave ninja mode. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 23:28, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, oh... I thought it was because it would defeat the purpose which is to create a light experience and adding thanks links aren't exactly light. I was just trying to find a way to quickly thank people. There are cases when I don't have a lot to say and getting out of ninja mode just to click the heart felt a bit extra. I thought of double-clicking but that starts an edit. I couldn't think of anything else and I thought maybe I could compromise to allow for hearts and love to spill out of ninja mode. Turns out that can't be done either so I guess I have no quicker way than the current one. — Klein Muçi (talk) 00:01, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
Bug report (30 September 2022, 11:53)
Alexis Jazz, I found some persisting formatting issues.
When Code Mirror is off, every link I post is automatically conversed in its "shorter" form surrounded by double square brackets which make it impossible to use the weird pipe trick. This phenomenon appeared random before because I have CM on 90% of the time.
Vertical spacing has gone crazier after introducing the regex we talked about together. Now on normal text you need double enters for introducing 1 empty line, on lists (straight after them) has become impossible to introduce any empty lines and quotes behave by their own rules where you might need triple enters for introducing 1 empty line. There might be other inconsistencies as well. This has made the Enter key behavior so unpredictable for me that I need to check (and refresh) the live preview continuously to understand what's going on every time.
Extra: Maybe AWB regex autoconversion is at play somehow in both those cases because it's also making me go crazy over "problem" switching to "probablem" in 1/3 of the times I type that word.
Klein Muçi, every link I post is automatically done This comment somehow got a "red dot character" in the empty line before "When". It's a zero-width space. Maybe you copy-pasted it. This has made the Enter key behavior so unpredictable Not sure if this would be improved as well. Now on normal text you need double enters for introducing 1 empty line Sounds normal on lists (straight after them) has become impossible to introduce any empty lines That was the point Extra: Maybe AWB regex autoconversion I had already explained this: "Disable "Automatically apply AutoWikiBrowser RegExTypoFix", enter problematic text, magnifying glass, press "AWB RegExTypoFix". It should tell you which rules matched. You can test if it works correctly by entering "porblem" which will be corrected to "problem" on English Wikipedia. Or <!-- dummy edit --> which will vanish." — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 16:31, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, now they get conversed in the square brackets form after I have the chance to rename them, which I suppose... is good? But while the rename is happening the text TAILPIPETRICK gets added momentarily which is the text I've put as "a comment" in the regex. Does that mean I've done it wrong? As for AWB regexes... I did that test but while it works as intended for the examples you give, it shows nothing for "probl" which is when usually an extra A is added. — Klein Muçi (talk) 02:59, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, the text TAILPIPETRICK gets added momentarily which is the text I've put as "a comment" in the regex. Does that mean I've done it wrong? Not sure, is the end result correct? The regexes work in two steps: first add a space and the text "TAILPIPETRICK" after the link so the link can be rewritten as the pipe otherwise prevents that. Once rewritten, the link name that now follows TAILPIPETRICK gets merged into the link. it shows nothing for "probl" which is when usually an extra A is added Maybe it is just your laptop. Or one of your automatic replacements, so you could try disabling those. If that doesn't help try VPT. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 04:02, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, when you replace text currently the screen just stays focused on the replace button and there's no way to find out what just happened. We need a way to find out what we're replacing/what was replaced. - Klein Muçi (talk) 11:30, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, it's not only about "replace all". The problem is the same even when replacing individually. Normally you would have the text form autofocused, then individual words (strings) would get marked and you can choose to press "Replace" or can choose to ignore that and go on to the next word (we need a button to go back as well). This is when you actually need to see what you're doing. When using "replace all" at tops you just need the text form autofocused to indicate that something happened and the function was completed. Maybe small notices could be laid below/beside the replace buttons that say things like: Found X matches. or 1/10... 3/10... n/N or X replacements done I guess the biggest problem is that the replace buttons are too low and that makes it very awkward to work with the text. — Klein Muçi (talk) 08:21, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, Maybe small notices could be laid below/beside the replace buttons that say things like: Found X matches. or 1/10... 3/10... n/N or X replacements done There's no actual knowledge of the number of matches, how many have been done or how many are left. On big articles that'll just make everything slower. Archive? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 23:59, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, that's a bit sad because marking and counting are almost always present in find and replace features. Even the current editor I use supports them and so far FTT hasn't been lacking in any features when compared with other editors. Can we at least have a "back" button? If I accidently pass one match, I'll have to do a Magellan trip to find it again. Most of my ref-fixing routine requires me to translate month names in date parameters. That requires attention to skip month names when they're not in date parameters and in doing that there are many occasions when I accidently skip valid matches as well. Going back helps in those cases. — Klein Muçi (talk) 01:21, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, have a "back" button? ctrl+z That requires attention to skip month names when they're not in date parameters and in doing that there are many occasions when I accidently skip valid matches as well. You should use a regex. Twelve regexes actually, like /(date[ ]?=[^\|\}]+September/$1shtator/g or something. Maybe make a little module that runs all twelve at the click of a button. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 02:20, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz: ctrl+z Maybe you have misunderstood me. Let's say there are 4 Septembers that can become Shtatorë. I start replacing individually. The first one shouldn't be a Shtator, I hit "next". The second one shouldn't be either. I hit "next" again. The third one should be. I hit "next" again out of habit. I realize my mistake and want to go back there. I can't. I can only move forward. I need to hit "next" 3 more times to get there. Now let's make the numbers realistic. You usually have 30-60 Septembers in a page you need to scrutinize. Magellan honks the ship at your window and tells you to get in loser because you're going in a world trip. It's not about undoing a problem.
That's why marks and counting also help a little in these cases. Marks allow you to do a quick scan of the current state of the text form and mental-note the sections that you should be careful with the buttons because of mixed usages. Counting allows you to do some very-very basic projections on how you're performing/you've performed. Before editing a page, I will Ctrl+F the number of errors and count them. When editing, I will Ctrl+F the "errors" again and count them. There is always a discrepancy between those 2 numbers because there might be multiple parameters that need to be fixed in a single ref-error or, as we said, matches that aren't an error and need to be skipped. You do the subtraction anyway and you know that you need to do that much changes more or less. If in the end you see that you've done way more than that number, it is likely that you've also replaced values that you shouldn't so you go and scrutinize your diff. (If you've done way less than that number, it is likely that you've overindulged in the skip-process and you again need to scrutinize the diff.)
I can manage to live without the above steps (even though I personally think they're important) but it is very hard to achieve anything from that described workflow without a "back" button.
You should use a regex. Twelve regexes actually, like /(date[ ]?=[^\|\}]+September/$1shtator/g or something. Maybe make a little module that runs all twelve at the click of a button. I sort of do. Well, my bot does. w:sq:Përdoruesi:Smallem uses around 44k regexes to help solve many citation problems automatically. ~42k of them are regexes to sanitize language names in ISO codes so they don't produce errors of unknown languages. (Generated by this module, courtesy of Trappist the Monk.) The remaining ones are regexes to translate all the possible English date formats in the Albanian ones and some various other fixes. When I work manually I'm dealing either with cases too complex for Smallem or for testing why Smallem has failed to fix certain citations. — Klein Muçi (talk) 10:57, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, that's a bit sad because marking and counting are almost always present in find and replace features. The 2010 wikitext editor doesn't have "find previous" or counting features. But it's done anyway.. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 03:10, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I'm terrible with editor names as I've repeated many times but there is one editor that has that functionality because I use that often. Thank you! Can you please switch order with the "next" button though? Move it to the left making it the first button on the row so it can have parity with the undo/redo arrows here and previous/next buttons in general. — Klein Muçi (talk) 09:05, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, yes, that one. The, apparently, 2017 editor has marking and counting functionalities when F&R is being used. Thank you for the order changing. If you thinking marking/counting are too much for now, you can go and archive this. — Klein Muçi (talk) 16:27, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, oh, I'm actually surprised. I had lost hope you would implement it now. Thank you! There is only one problem though: Only counting is done. Marking isn't yet. With that I mean marking all the words that match the typed string. If you worry about that function slowing down the system a lot, maybe you can implement that on a button on its own, don't make it automatic. — Klein Muçi (talk) 20:49, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, I'd like to have a back-to-the-headers arrow in the bottom of the settings. Done Also, wouldn't it be better if we had all the mobile related settings in a Mobile header located to the left of Advanced? Don't think so, there aren't that many and several are children. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:51, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, thank you! Can we also add a tooltip to it? Don't think so, there aren't that many and several are children. I agree but I thought it could be instinctual for people to expect mobile stuff to be on a mobile tab instead of being dispersed around. As for them being children... They could either be in superposition or they could become strong independent individuals standing on their own. (And I also have a feeling you personally will want to make more mobile oriented changes in the near future.) But you decide on that. — Klein Muçi (talk) 22:52, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, add a tooltip to it? done Could you please stop saying "we"? You haven't learned JavaScript yet. And I also have a feeling you personally will want to make more mobile oriented changes in the near future. Who says I have a future. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 23:30, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, thank you! Could you please stop saying "we"? You haven't learned JavaScript yet. That's paranoid at best and arrogant at worse. Your contributions, along everything else on Wikipedia, belong ultimately to everyone. In that sense "we" means "the community", the body of work which does things, where me, you and everyone else belongs as well. It doesn't mean "me and you". — Klein Muçi (talk) 00:11, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, you say things like Can we also add a tooltip to it? but that just means "Could you also add a tooltip to it?". If I ask user X to improve an article, I don't ask "could we improve this article?", I ask "could you improve this article?". Saying "we" could be sort-of valid when there's a realistic chance someone else will pick it up and appropriate when there's a realistic chance you'll pick it up (partially) yourself, but when directing the request at a specific person it's not. Maybe in Albanian it is? Your contributions, along everything else on Wikipedia, belong ultimately to everyone. Most of Wikipedia is CC BY-SA 3.0 and copyright remains with the authors. Sure, I made Factotum PD because I'm unwilling to sue for forgotten attribution and PD provides the best license compatibility. But I didn't have to and it doesn't mean I deserve for my authorship should be denied. If that's arrogant, fine, I'll be arrogant. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 02:38, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, this is not as much a matter of being lost in translation as it is a matter of ethics. It might look alluring to address the other person directly the first few requests because it gives them a position of a benefactor (as it should be) but fast forward some months in the future and that well-doer position quickly transitions in a pseudo-inversed-hierarchy where the once-benefactor becomes the now-worker at the receiving end of the once-help-requests-now-imperatives given. To help alleviate this effect, many people, including me, excluding you, start addressing the abstract entities, like the community, for help requests, instead of the concrete person that will do the literal job. As for the authorship matters in Wikipedia... I don't believe me or anyone else would want to strip you of your authorship on Factotum or other edits elsewhere. Especially considering that in wiki-world you usually don't get muchos pesos anywhere (tops you can get are muchos besos, and even those are metaphorical). — Klein Muçi (talk) 11:24, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, To help alleviate this effect, many people, including me, excluding you, start addressing the abstract entities It doesn't help. Not unless more developers show up. I already feel trapped here because this project seemingly never gets finished. Changing pronouns merely feels like watering down my authorship. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 13:22, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I said it once, I'm gonna say it again: There is no deadline. The mobile experience will need a lot to be polished and even after that is over other things will change or get implemented (like the tool today) and those will require their own care as well. If you feel trapped, you need a break. Mine and other's request can wait for when you feel ready to deal with them. — Klein Muçi (talk) 03:30, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I was checking around to see what has a toggle and what doesn't and much to my surprise I found out that everything does. That's really impressive and it adds value to the modular functionality of Factotum. Inspired by that, I was checking what has a keyboard shortcut and what doesn't and there were quite some but I think some more might be added as well.
Shortcuts in regard to linking/subscribing/editing/replying/thanking, (maybe ctrl+alt+up/down navigates between sections and ctrl+alt+left/right navigates between the header icons in that section + Enter for enabling/disabling - I found myself trying to do that instinctively a couple of times - not sure how you can replicate that behavior with individual comments though..) Finding and Replacing (maybe Ctrl+F), moving and archiving (maybe Ctrl+M and Ctrl+A), collapsing/uncollapsing the ToC+navigating it, switching editors, viewing edit notices (?) using the 2 buttons to scroll to the next unread comments (user Qwerfjkl might be interested in this) opening settings (! - this would free us from having to go through all those extra steps to get to it) and especially a way to navigate between all Factotum's "buttons". For example, surfing from one templated answer to another, from the magnifying glass to the cog and then to individual settings below. (Maybe the first 9 autoinserts can be tied to the 9 number buttons in the keyboard?) The navigation detail starts to get more value as more shortcuts are introduced. If you manage to go somewhere with the shortcut, you want to be able take a right/left turn or go one floor above/below where you are and reach for that element you're looking for (and not have to go for the mouse/touchpad).
PS: Enter for enabling/disabling isn't mentioned anywhere on the keyboard settings. I know that currently it serves for collapsing/uncollapsing sections but that behavior is hidden knowledge. If it gets introduced in more navigating routes, I think it should be shared with the public. — Klein Muçi (talk) 12:38, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, ctrl+alt+left/right navigates between the header icons done Finding and Replacing (maybe Ctrl+F) ctrl+alt+f, ctrl+f is the search feature of your browser moving and archiving (maybe Ctrl+M and Ctrl+A), ctrl+m/a are commonly used for mute and select all. Moving and archiving are not sufficiently common operations for a dedicated keyboard shortcut collapsing/uncollapsing the ToC+navigating it same really switching editors same really viewing edit notices same really using the 2 buttons to scroll to the next unread comments (user Qwerfjkl might be interested in this) @Qwerfjkl, this could be something, but I'm not sure which keys would be a sensible choice. opening settings (! - this would free us from having to go through all those extra steps to get to it) such a drag Again, not sure what combination would be sensible. and especially a way to navigate between all Factotum's "buttons". For example, surfing from one templated answer to another, from the magnifying glass to the cog and then to individual settings below what if I told you tab/shift+tab is the universal way to do that Enter for enabling/disabling isn't mentioned anywhere on the keyboard settings. To enable/disable what? It's all in the keyboard shortcuts map. (ctrl+/) — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:47, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
ctrl+alt+f, ctrl+f is the search feature of your browser
I was thinking we could hijack the native search feature if a text form was open in Factotum, same as a certain editor (never sure about the names) does when using it.
Again, not sure what combination would be sensible.
Ctrl+Shift+/ (slash)? We can reserve / for tech-stuff.
what if I told you tab/shift+tab is the universal way to do that
This time I knew that but that method was exactly why I thought of asking for "something better". With the method you say, it takes ages for me to actually get to the section I'm working and then to start going from one link to another until I get what I want. If you don't click somewhere, the link surfing starts from the very beginning of the page. But it is okay I guess.
I'm assuming we have no way to link/thank/reply/edit specific comments. That's something I think we should incorporate. I'm only assuming because Factotum is broken for me at the moment of speaking so I can't try anything. I'm typing this with DT. Klein Muçi (talk) 01:56, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
I suppose I can utilize the tab button in conjunction with the keyboard shortcut for section-surfing. There are 2 small problems though. First of all if you have native Edit links and DT subscriptions enabled like I do, you can go to the native edit link with the left/right arrows but you can't reach the DT subscription bell. I currently double-sub everything so I'd want that section reachable as well. Funnily enough, the bell is unreachable even with tab-surfing. Secondly, this is true: ctrl+alt+left/right navigates between the header icons However, when you want to press Enter to act on one of the headers you will have to release Ctrl+Alt or else it won't work. This appears a bit unintuitive as normally you can expand/collapse sections while navigating to them and pressing Enter without having to release those buttons. It took me a couple of tries to understand what was going on and that the functionality wasn't really broken. Also, can we provide the same functionality for comments as well? Ctrl+Shift+Up(P)/Down(N)-left/right It would be very handy and I suppose the combo is memorable as well (Shift instead of Alt). — Klein Muçi (talk) 12:34, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, you can't reach the DT subscription bell. Adjusted, all links in the header should now be reachable However, when you want to press Enter to act on one of the headers you will have to release Ctrl+Alt or else it won't work. Adjusted Ctrl+Shift+Up(P)/Down(N)-left/right Occupado. Prepare for cramps from holding ctrl+alt+shift — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 21:56, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
┌───────────────────────────┘ Alexis Jazz: Adjusted, all links in the header should now be reachable. They are. There is a minor discrepancy though: When you're in ninja mode, you can get to Latest comment. When you're not in ninja mode, you can't get to Latest. You decide on how to solve it. Occupado. Sad. I'll be happy with whatever combo you choose though, if you do choose something. And I'm greatly looking forward to something for the settings. Why J and L? Any meaning? I'd assume you would go with R and L, for right and left. — Klein Muçi (talk) 22:39, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, When you're in ninja mode, you can get to Latest comment. WMF devs should resolve phab:T314714 and then you won't be able to get to it. When you're not in ninja mode, you can't get to Latest. Because Factotum's discussion activity was never appended to the header to begin with. Sad. I'll be happy with whatever combo you choose though, if you do choose something. And I'm greatly looking forward to something for the settings. Comments and settings done Why J and L? Any meaning? On QWERTY they are roughly between N and P, and J is left of L. For R you'd have to move your hand. Also, ctrl+alt+r seems to trigger a reader mode on Wikipedia. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 23:24, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, thank you! Some issues still persist though:
Comments seem to remember where you left them. If you have navigated to the next section and start trying to comment-surf, you get sent back to the previous section. They should follow along.
You can also comment-surf on collapsed sections which makes way for a weird behavior. You shouldn't.
When section-surfing, the native edit link can't be selected without releasing the keys first.
Unless you're already replying to/editing something, the setting shortcut always opens the whole page for editing which feels like hunting rabbits with nukes. That can also create crashes in large pages. A more elegant way I suppose would be to open for editing a specific comment or section. You can make an arbitrary choice on that. Maybe the last comment that has been scrolled to. Maybe the last section that was expanded. Maybe the last new comment. Maybe just the literal last comment/section. Anything is better than the whole page, I was literally frightened when that happened. The fans in my laptop came to life more euphoric than cats at 3 AM. Even better than that would be to soft-cut the dependency of settings on edit forms by keeping the icon where it is and allowing them to be accessed as a popup so on shortcut situations no editing form would be needed. The best solution would be to cut it altogether and remove the cog anywhere else where we won't need to open an edit form to reach it but you've been against that in the past so...
Alexis Jazz: How else will you collapse/uncollapse? Oh, the selection literally starts on the edit link. I thought it only went there after pressing the right arrow. Okay then. The first 2 issues combined still persist in a different way though. You can comment-scroll in collapsed sections in a hidden way and then when section-scrolling it'll remember that and start moving from where you "secretly" left, which can sort of be anywhere. Also:
You can't reach the reply link beside comments when you have that setting on.
You can't comment-scroll at all with the keyboard when locator links are present. Is that the right word? What you get when you follow a notification and the page opens with a long link and a highlighted comment.
When you open the settings with a keyboard shortcut and scroll away, you get a magic link to return to Factotum which does nothing.
Tab-scrolling on settings works in a weird way. You can go to the settings headers and you can keep scrolling on them with the arrows even when you're not holding tab anymore. Pressing up and down is the same as left and right though and doesn't send you in the settings below. If you're on them (on the settings below) and release tab, you can't control them anymore like with the headers.
Klein Muçi, You can comment-scroll in collapsed sections in a hidden way I can't find this hidden way. You can't reach the reply link beside comments when you have that setting on. You can tab to it. DT is in a different element. You can't comment-scroll at all with the keyboard when locator links are present. Is that the right word? What you get when you follow a notification and the page opens with a long link and a highlighted comment. Not really the right word but I see the issue I think. It'll focus icons/links but won't (reliably) scroll/highlight. I was wrong, I fixed issues with the first comment not being highlighted when surfing down after section scrolling and nothing getting highlighted with an open form, but what you describe I can't reproduce. you get a magic link to return to Factotum which does nothing. done Tab-scrolling on settings works in a weird way. OOUI department, not mine. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 03:20, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz: I can't find this hidden way. On this page collapse all sections. Press Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Down 3 times. Now press Ctrl+Alt+Down once. You'll notice that you don't go from the first section to the second one as you'd expect. Instead you go from the third section to the fourth one because comments "have been moving on the background". You can tab to it. DT is in a different element. Can't the same solution that was applied to the subscribe bell be used here as well? ...but what you describe I can't reproduce. Go here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Alexis_Jazz/Factotum#c-Alexis_Jazz-20221001235000-Klein_Mu%C3%A7i-20221001212400 Now press Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Up/Down. For me nothing happens. I like the "scroll to the next header" buttons. When they're clicked, the scrolling is very peaceful. The same thing doesn't happen when you use a keyboard shortcut. There seems to be some kind of jump involved. Can we have the same behavior? — Klein Muçi (talk) 00:13, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, You'll notice that you don't go from the first section to the second one as you'd expect No, I'd expect to go to the next section outside the viewport. because comments "have been moving on the background". Can't reproduce. Try entering Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Down just once or a hundred times, see if it makes a difference. Can't the same solution that was applied to the subscribe bell be used here as well? No, the bell is in the header element. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 03:24, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I found this issue: Every time I use the top blue buttons in this page and I press "Send", the request goes through but my browser has started getting confused lately and it asks me if I am sure I want to reload the page without saving. Because of that ^ it will remember my text and if I click those buttons again ask me if I want to restore it or start a new one. — Klein Muçi (talk) 12:44, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, there is no "send" button anywhere. Sounds like you're interacting with the 2017 wikitext editor, not Factotum. (Factotum never asks to restore content.. though maybe it should) Any change? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 21:26, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, yes. I had already thanked you for it, meaning "thank you, archive" and that is very clear for me because I see the heart with the changed position on them. But later I remembered you see nothing of that sort beside the notification so maybe that's not the best away. — Klein Muçi (talk) 08:20, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, I generally leave sections up for a few days in case a regression occurs or an issue that is believed to be fixed wasn't fixed 100%. After that time I'd have forgotten about any notification. In fact, when I get a "thanks" notification I generally don't investigate it so I wouldn't really know which section/edit it was for. The notification mentions the title, but the title is gray and on this page most titles are very generic anyway. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:19, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I'd like to be able to "refresh" (restart) the live preview by double-clicking it. There are times when it freezes and I have to click the button between the red and blu buttons below to restart it (I'm not sure about its name in English, maybe something similar to "Check changes"?). I can also achieve the same functionality by untoggling and toggling it back on. But many times I find myself instinctively double-clicking it, hoping to make it refresh and so I thought to request it as a feature. — Klein Muçi (talk) 13:30, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, there are a lot of help pages which make use of the formula "search the archives before starting a new topic". I don't know if Factotum can provide any help in those cases. Somehow doing a rudimentary search and stopping/linking you to the old discussion if what you're about to ask already exists/has answers in the past. I wanted to ask this as a feature but I thought it might not be possible because of the complexity of the matter so I thought I'd just write it here mostly as food for thought. — Klein Muçi (talk) 01:38, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, some forums provide search results after entering a subject. Usually it's nothing but a distraction as the results are rarely relevant, so, meh. You're probably better off using the native search page. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 16:36, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
Issue (30 September 2022, 12:43)
Alexis Jazz, MAYBE you are interested in this: m:User talk:Klein Muçi#c-ESanders (WMF)-20220930121700-Update to commentlinks.js gadget. That is a script I've been using for a long time and in the last 2 months I've used it in conjunction with Factotum. They've worked nice together up until this point. In v2, clicking the speech bubble or the pencil beside comments also activates that script which automatically copies the comment link in the background. I can always use v1 so it's not a big deal but I thought you'd be interested in knowing anyway because that behavior may very well be the way DT will evolve to and providing some parity could be beneficial in the long run. — Klein Muçi (talk) 12:43, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, ugly workaround added (ugly because commentlinks.js links have no class or similar identifier, likely hurts loading time on long talk pages as all links need to be scanned) If you use "Display signature dates in local time" and load commentlinks.js after Factotum, commentlinks.js won't work but that's inevitable. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 15:55, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
{"int":66,"id":"heading-66","type":"newheading","subtype":"heading","pageTitleInt":66,"origReplyTo":"","pageTitle":"Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 September 23","sectionTitle":"Category:Female–female vocal duets","sectionseq":0,"origReplyToUnderscore":""}
Element types processed: H1, SPAN, A, DD, LI, SMALL, P, I
Additional information: Error triggered by user. Posting a new comment at the bottom line f a section doesn't work; the submit button just pulsates grey.
Qwerfjkl, I loaded your configuration. Absolutely maddening, buttons and links and conflicts and JS errors everywhere. I had to unhide .mw-editsection manually, I assume one of the scripts you load hides it. Probably the one that adds the .section-links with the yellow pencil icon and section jump buttons, don't know which one that is though. But the particular issue here was caused by your module which didn't account for text being replaced by appendtext. You can solve it by doing this: User:FactoTest1/common.js (Diff 1113429371). — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:38, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz, I solved this by commenting out the module (your solution would probably have worked as well). I'm not sure what you're referring to by 'section jump buttons' or 'yellow pencil icon', or hidden .mw-editsection links (I presume that's the button for editing sections, if so I can see that.) — Qwerfjkltalk20:02, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, open a comment to edit, click the diff button. The live preview changes to offer the diff. You're kinda stuck there. Clicking the diff button again doesn't remove it. Pressing Esc, doesn't remove it. You're only option is to restart the live preview to get out of it. Also, if you don't get out and you start typing instead it starts behaving weird. — Klein Muçi (talk) 16:46, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, define "weird". Pressing diff again refreshes the diff. Obviously. There's no reason for escape to do anything here. Pressing "preview" (or "Shqyrto") brings the preview back. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:23, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, Done (and by "weird" you probably meant smartLivePreview starting to act on the diff, which is unexpected but surprisingly kinda works, but probably not a brilliant idea)— Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 20:19, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
A regression has happened and the filter no longer exists;
When I was rechoosing my preferences something hit me: How would people know something was "unlocked" somewhere when you activated the advanced settings? I chose my preferences 3 times in a row (because of the problem that was fixed some days ago) and all the three times, I instinctively went in the Advanced header in the end. All those 3 times I had no idea what I had unlocked where and I just scrutinized everything from the beginning (so 6 times? :P ). This is more or less the same problem as "How will people know a new setting is possible without searching for new periodically?"
Go here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Alexis_Jazz/Factotum?veaction=editsource. Press Ctrl+Shift+/. Things get a bit confusing. I'm able to understand what's going on but from a perspective of someone who doesn't, you basically try to get to the settings and instead get the shortcut table. So you think that maybe things have switched and hit Ctrl+Alt+/ for the settings but it doesn't work at all.
Klein Muçi, A regression has happened and the filter no longer exists; ? works for me you basically try to get to the settings and instead get the shortcut table. You get VE's shortcut table and Factotum's shortcuts are suppressed. What is the problem? And no, I can't suppress VE's shortcut table. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:27, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, How would people know something was "unlocked" somewhere when you activated the advanced settings? Done, expert/dangerous settings are now marked with orange/red blocks. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 15:12, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz: works for me I wish I could say the same. For me it's just not there anymore, simple as that. I can post a screenshot if you think that would help. Done, expert/dangerous settings are now marked with orange/red blocks. Can the blocks actually not be blocks? They get easily confused with the tickboxes. Maybe instead of adding blocks, the text itself could be orange/red? Whatever you choose though, it should be explained in the expert/dangerous settings' description in the Advanced header. To be completely honest, this doesn't really solve the "what unlocked where" part because you'd still have to see all settings one by one but it is an improvement. — Klein Muçi (talk) 16:37, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, For me it's just not there anymore, simple as that. I can post a screenshot if you think that would help. Please do. Maybe instead of adding blocks, the text itself could be orange/red? Hurts readability. Using triangle now. what unlocked where Well whatcha gonna do. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:14, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz: Please do. I will in the next comment. Using triangle now. Oh, that's very neat. Can we add a tooltip on the triangles that explains what they're symbolizing if hovered over? Also, the explanation beside Show expert settings and Show unfinished features... about the triangles is still missing. Well whatcha gonna do I don't know how achievable it is here but Android has solved this problem with the "notification dot" that guides a user up to where the change has happened. Maybe a similar mechanism can be devised for this purpose. — Klein Muçi (talk) 20:41, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, enter $('#FTTFilterSettings') on the browser console and see if you can find it and tell me whatever you can figure out. You're also missing $('.FTTCreditTop'). I can't reproduce this. There may be some error on the browser console, that could make sense. Please enable "Show an alert when you encounter JavaScript errors" on Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets-gadget-section-test so you can catch these more often. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 22:06, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, I moved some code around so you may now see the filter option again, but that doesn't necessarily mean the error that caused your issue has been resolved, it may only mean the error occurs after the filter field has already been added. I'm not sure if the gadget also catches warnings, but at least it helps to know when to open the browser console while just browsing to notice an error. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 01:45, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, 1. Mobile advanced mode yes or no? 2. Are collapsible sections enabled in Bawl's settings or are you referring to the native section collapsing on mobile? 3. Examples of pages/sections that don't work? 4. You said almost, so some do work? Examples of that as well? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 17:55, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
I have no idea unfortunately as I don't use mobile that often for Wikipedia. How can I be sure?
They should be. I have only 1 pair of settings globally and I have them activated there.
All the pages in all namespaces. You get ninja mode, you break out of it, you collapse 1 section and then nothing can be collapsed anymore. Pressing the section arrows does nothing. Sometimes you can't collapse even that first initial section.
Alexis Jazz, sorry for the delay. I've seen the messages. I'm just leaving the mobile part for the end so I don't get lost in all the requests for the PC part. (Given that only one final list remains more or less and I rarely use Wikipedia from mobile anyway.) I did test out if I could collapse the sections when you wrote this question though and the same problem persisted. I could collapse only 1 section and nothing more. — Klein Muçi (talk) 22:05, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
The mobile era starts. So, first of all I'm not exactly sure how to safely escape ninja mode in mobile without activating anything else. If you have any tips, let me know. Secondly, the problem persists. I checked the link you gave me and apparently the toggle is off, so no advanced mode. The said problem happens in every possible page (doesn't happen in the talkspace). You get out of ninja mode, you open only 1 section in an article of your choice, and all the other sections become locked. The chevron beside them actually rotates when clicked but nothing happens. I also noticed that the pencil of Factotum looks very similar to the pencil of mobile edit link and for users such as me that have both links active that can be very confusing. (I have a feeling a setting exists somewhere to solve that.) I haven't been able to make any other tests because the always-collapsed sections cut almost all my workflows. — Klein Muçi (talk) 09:50, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, So, first of all I'm not exactly sure how to safely escape ninja mode in mobile without activating anything else. If you have any tips, let me know. Maybe tap #firstHeading The said problem happens in every possible page (doesn't happen in the talkspace) This is why you should always provide link(s). I can't investigate anything if I can't be sure the problem even exists on the page I'm testing. It's a complete waste of time. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 11:49, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, did you change any settings since you filed this report? I can't reproduce this despite loading your settings. Do sections collapse normally at https://sq.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Potter?disableftt=1 ? (I have a feeling a setting exists somewhere to solve that.) Either blue mode (if you can see color) or "Hide Minerva's section edit markers when using the Minerva (mobile) skin" — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 03:06, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I can see color but I find the extra color distracting (even though I love the shades you've chosen). I ticked Hide Minerva's section edit markers when using the Minerva (mobile) skin from the laptop but nothing is changing on mobile. Maybe it needs some time... I have changed my settings. How can I send a new copy of them? (New button that auto-copies your configuration list for debugging reasons without having to ask kitty for help? Useful?) And no, the problem doesn't persist with Factotum disabled. — Klein Muçi (talk) 09:08, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
That setting stays ticked even when checked from mobile but I still have double pencils. :-/ Side quest: If you want my general opinion I think Factotum's interface should be redesigned a bit for the mobile experience. And it should have more autonomy from the desktop version. A lot more features should be toogle-fied to be able to enable/disable them while on mobile. I was playing around a bit with it and 2/3 of my screen was covered by buttons and templated answers. I also feel really anxious with ninja mode enabled. In the desktop version you managed to mould it in a perfect experience (at least for me) and you can utilize it however you want. Clicking in different places gives different results and it is pretty intuitive. In the mobile version there is not a lot of place where you can click and I always end up clicking in a section and opening the said section even though I don't want to do that. These are only first impressions just to give a general idea but there are a lot of details like these. It also depends on the user I guess. I only use mobile for reading and on some rare occasions for giving very short/fast answers so all those extra features I've been asking and loving on desktop become a big burden for me there. Or at least they look very heavy on my small smartphone screen. (Templated answers are very good for giving very short/fast answers for example but they take a lot of place as they currently are.) When I used to have a tablet though I would use it for editing way more often and some of the features would be nice to have there. So it depends. — Klein Muçi (talk) 12:03, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, but I still have double pencils. :-/ done How can I send a new copy of them? kitty And it should have more autonomy from the desktop version. done I also feel really anxious with ninja mode enabled Can be enabled on mobile/desktop separately now — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 21:54, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
Pencils and ninja mode are fine now. The sections are still locked though. All of them now, I can't open even the first one anymore. After we manage to fix this, I'll go and check what other micro-adjustments I can suggest about the general experience. All in all though I believe the TL;DR version will be "just make every feature with a mobile-toggle". — Klein Muçi (talk) 23:15, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
┌───────────────────────────┘ Klein Muçi, "just make every feature with a mobile-toggle" Please no. Just save settings on your mobile device to the browser. For settings where it really makes sense, fine, but not everything. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 00:58, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, eh, that's an option as well but I'm too afraid to walk that road after what happened the last time with preferences. Anyway, the problem still persists. Just retried. Also, why haven't you given us yet the toggles you already created for mobile? If I go at Interface filter for Customize elements to hide on mobile (new 09–27), I get just that but not its children. Still working on it or is that a syntax bug? I was able to reach it through the Interface header though. — Klein Muçi (talk) 09:51, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, but I'm too afraid to walk that road You're finally learning JavaScript? Just retried. Also, why haven't you given us yet the toggles you already created for mobile? Because you haven't learned JavaScript yet Actually, summary field = Field to add your own message to the edit summary and checkbox to mark edits as minor custom inserts = Enable custom inserts markup = Enable basic bold/italic/strikethrough markup toolbar link = Add "insert link" icon ping = Button to open user mention form undo = Undo button magnifying glass = Add icon for search and replace, section moving and other advanced tools switch = Enable switching between editors reflist = Reference list when editing a full page Only thing that has no toggle on desktop is the diff button, but why would you hide that on any screen that's bigger than a postage stamp I get just that but not its children. Still working on it or is that a syntax bug? Children bring their parent because otherwise they're scared. Parents never bring their children, there would be peanut butter and lemonade everywhere You need to better isolate which setting/action causes this problem. Checked the browser console? Is there a screenshot/movie? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 22:13, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, they are indeed done (Thanks!) but now they appear expanded as a default which on mobile isn't always a desirable outcome (mostly because of the lack of ToC). Can we have a toggle for that behavior? As a side note, the little comments' chevrons on talk pages don't do their job either. — Klein Muçi (talk) 02:08, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, have a toggle for that behavior? There already is As a side note, the little comments' chevrons on talk pages don't do their job either. How/where/when? Got an open form in the section? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 02:40, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz: There already is Uhm, you mean Collapse all non-talk page sections by default? How/where/when? Got an open form in the section? I can't reproduce this anymore. I tried some sections in my talk page here. I couldn't collapse them back with those chevrons. Now I can. There were some rare cases when I still couldn't but couldn't isolate them cleanly so at the moment I'm gonna go with fixed on this. — Klein Muçi (talk) 09:58, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, Uhm, you mean Collapse all non-talk page sections by default? What else? Can you please add a toggle to remove the button for showing edit notices for mobile? Done— Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 17:01, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz: What else? The problem is that different behaviors are needed for different devices. At least by me. I have that section currently off on desktop but on phone there is no ToC so normally I'd want it on to use the headers as a ToC. — Klein Muçi (talk) 01:15, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
As I said, I like the 3 arrows you've added but can you make them removable for mobile? They're rarely usable there and space is very limited so... Klein Muçi (talk) 09:27, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
┌───────────────────────────┘ Klein Muçi, I made some more adjustments so at limited width on mobile various icons will auto-hide for collapsed sections and for uncollapsed sections the icons and title will be rendered inline instead of flex. So what your screenshot shows shouldn't be possible anymore. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 01:49, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, hmm... I'm not sure how beneficial that option is in practice. What I mean is that tested on the same page, before you implemented this, I had removed the extra icons that I rarely used and "everything was fine". The headers showed the text correctly and I saw the icons that I had left there. Now at the same page the headers have no icons at all beside the chevron even though things were fine there for me. :/ — Klein Muçi (talk) 08:23, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, the icons that get auto-hidden are unlikely to be useful without uncollapsing the section. It also better matches the native behavior of MobileFrontend: the native edit marker also gets hidden for collapsed sections. Also, it's not an option. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:54, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, I meant the default behavior (without Factotum), you presumably enabled "Hide Minerva's native section edit markers". — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 14:15, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I'm confused... :-/ What do I need to do to have the link and pencil icon back in sections in articles? they show when expanded. I understand now. This is more elegant. Archive. — Klein Muçi (talk) 22:19, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
Bug report (1 October 2022, 09:02)
Alexis Jazz, I found this issue: My global preferences appear to suddenly have been completely forgotten. Factotum has randomly returned in factory settings for me. :-/ — Klein Muçi (talk) 09:02, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, not sure what could have happened. I removed some legacy stuff recently (using the old name), but that was for non-global account settings. What does mw.user.options.get('userjs-FTT') return? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:58, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz... :-( Can we please have a two-fold mechanism where we can easily get the tabular data of settings (without going to the kitty) and where we can feed such tabular data in case we need to get a certain configuration fast or anything of this sort ever happens again in the future? Completely losing your environment is a disasterous event. — Klein Muçi (talk) 20:55, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
It's even worse. I can't save my preferences anymore. Just spent 10 minutes to get them back and after I hit refresh they were gone... — Klein Muçi (talk) 21:11, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
Please, don't archive my open discussions on this page until a solution about this has been found and I've been able to go back at testing and I've answered you back there. I can't do much beyond simple replying if my preferences aren't saved. :/ — Klein Muçi (talk) 21:24, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
Not fixed for mobile, if that makes sense... I still get the default preferences there. I get the default preferences everywhere else beside here. They're not truly global apparently. Was able to unify them by using the console way you've told me before. This is why I'm scared of using local preferences. — Klein Muçi (talk) 00:34, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, Some side buttons for import/export? (Copy/Import) Import from where? A copy button turned out to add 550 bytes to the script which is stupidly much, so instead you can click the text field now to copy. This is already a super-niche feature, I don't want to add kilobytes of code to expand it. You can write a module if you wish. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 03:07, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz: Import from where? You put the string in the form and hit import somewhere. They get "imported" and the form clears itself out signifying that the importation was completed. That was what I was expecting to happen. Instead the "importation" happens when you click the general button to save settings. ...you can click the text field now to copy. That works too. Only one thing though. This is a behavior I've also wanted to suggest for you to consider when copying links/permalinks in comments/sections. You can remove the side buttons and make them auto-copy on click. Use your judgement on it. This is already a super-niche feature... Is it? Genuine question. I think this makes it easy for everyone, including you, to quickly change configurations, adopt new environments temporary for testing purposes, etc. But maybe I'm wrong. — Klein Muçi (talk) 08:52, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
┌───────────────────────────┘ Klein Muçi, They get "imported" and the form clears itself out signifying that the importation was completed. OR you expected the form to be updated with the import. You can remove the side buttons and make them auto-copy on click. I'm not removing the buttons, and since I'm not removing the buttons, there is no point. Is it? Yes. You and me are not average users. And I was already able to do this by entering window.localStorage.setItem('FTT',newsettings);. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:56, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I found this issue: live preview and its toggles are broken for mobile. The live preview actually doesn't work at all, it stays blank. When clicking the right angle toggle, its behavior starts becoming very erratic. — Klein Muçi (talk) 01:17, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, now the live preview works correctly but the behavior for the toggle that changes the preview's position doesn't. The first time you click it, it sends it on the side. The second time you click it, it doesn't send it back where it was for me, which is on top of the text form, but it puts it below it. Clicking it again only cycles between these 2 modes. — Klein Muçi (talk) 08:57, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, you messed up! (possibly)
I couldn't post the comment.
Replylinkparams:
{"int":1078,"type":"comment","subtype":"locator","id":"Alexis_Jazz:1664847924954:User_talkFTTCLNAlexis_Jazz/Factotum","pageTitle":"User_talk:Alexis_Jazz/Factotum","pageTitleInt":911,"origReplyTo":"Alexis_Jazz","origTimestamp":1664847924954,"origTimestampTextNode":1664847924954,"seq":0,"sectionTitle":"Issue (3 October 2022, 08:40)","sectionseq":0,"origReplyToUnderscore":"Alexis_Jazz"}
Klein Muçi, appears to have been caused by a space that was appended to the section by Donald Trung. Fixed. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 11:02, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, not really. That button was inspired by Fliegelflagel. And Fliegelflagel doesn't offer "go to bottom" either. (not by default anyway, not sure if it's configurable in Fliegelflagel) I think back to top is mostly used by mobile users who want to get back to the menu. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 14:10, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, "back to top" is more important than "go to bottom" in general. But I believe "go to bottom" can be found useful as well by users who utilize such arrows in their workflows. You know it though. My only request is to provide parity with the other arrows when it comes to the mobile settings. If you add it, add a toggle to remove it for mobiles. — Klein Muçi (talk) 22:04, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
Bug report (4 October 2022, 22:09)
Alexis Jazz, I found this issue: JS error when opening settings while on your contributions' page.
Alexis Jazz, if I try to use the Settings shortcut on your contributions, I get the kitten. If I ignore it (poor thing), I get the settings but a popup notifies me about the page being protected. When I hit okay there, I got the error. But now I don't. I opened console at that point anyway and entered what you said. It reads 57. — Klein Muçi (talk) 22:58, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, what happens if I increase the number at Maximum subscription object size (KiB)? Let's say I go for 999999999.
This is a twofold question. First comes the genuine part where I really don't know what happens if that number changes. What effects would I get in my browser or anywhere else? And secondly, should there be a kind of limit somehow? From the text form it looks like you can go on forever and no limit exits either on text amount, string type or on the number size itself. The same thing also happens on other text forms in the settings. Because of the lack of such limits/filters, it took me a while to understand how the background image text form worked. I wasn't sure what kind of link it accepted as it seemed to eat everything I fed it first. I was thinking it would accept titles from Commons. (I'm not sure if that can be a feature on its own or not.) That feature totally rocks by the way! Having Nyan cat GIFs as background while working on Wikipedia is the raddest thing I can think of currently. — Klein Muçi (talk) 09:29, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, OOUI doesn't enforce the limits I set (it only makes the border red when out of range) so I enforce some limits now. If you increased it to 999999999 (roughly one terabyte) and you keep the subscriptions in localStorage, they will typically grow (as you continue to subscribe to sections) to ~5MB before the browser starts rejecting changes. Some browsers have higher limits. If you lift the limit and you have one terabyte of storage available, you could have a one terabyte subscription object at some point. (after 300.000 years, optimistic guess) Loading a page on current hardware would probably take.. hours? But in 300.000 years you'll probably have something faster. If you keep subscriptions in your preferences you will either brick your preference (which might be a cause of phab:T311799) or the subscription object becomes corrupted when it grows beyond 127 KiB. (I'm not sure if that can be a feature on its own or not.) I can't remember how to convert titles to the directory the image is in. I thought it was the first two characters of the CRC32 checksum of the title or something. I looked for it a while ago, couldn't find it. I read about it in the past, just can't find it anymore. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 10:32, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I see... So other than Factotum's subscriptions what is localStorage used for in everyday life? Bookmarks? What would be a sensible size to keep it? The default one? In regard to backgrounds, what if you add an option to automatically use the image of the day from Commons or EnWiki or the local one for the user (if it has one)... Anything that would refresh the background daily. Also I think a toggle for mobile would be a good idea here as well. — Klein Muçi (talk) 01:27, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, So other than Factotum's subscriptions what is localStorage used for in everyday life? See localStorage and enter localStorage on your browser console on various sites. (contents are set per domain) What would be a sensible size to keep it? The default one? All the defaults are sensible. Bigger means subscriptions will last longer as the least active ones get culled to stay within the given size. what if you add an option to automatically use the image of the day from Commons or EnWiki or the local one for the user (if it has one)... Anything that would refresh the background daily. Module candidate. Also I think a toggle for mobile would be a good idea here as well. Agree, I'll add it today. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 03:42, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, please can you add some minimal padding around the text form and the different elements that show when editing/replying to something on mobile? Not being able to see the outlines clearly feels bad for my eyes. — Klein Muçi (talk) 22:29, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
Also, can the formatting icons be below the text form? Not sure if this is a recent change or it has always been like that. — Klein Muçi (talk) 02:34, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, can the formatting icons be below the text form? You really don't want that. On a narrow screen you need to use both the space above and below the form to avoid things from getting crowded. So many pencils (and other icons) in the same place... I don't see the problem. Pencil next to page title: edit lede. Small pencil on the right: edit full page. Speech bubble: add new section. Language/watchlist/history/edit/more/help panel: not mine. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 10:57, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I remember having activated something about suppressing the native icons, no? Shouldn't that include that small pencil below as well? Also, can't the Factotum's 2 pencils be organized in a bit different way in the mobile mode that would allow easier understanding of what does what? The big chevrons get very "messy" in such situations as well further adding to the chaos, even though the screenshot doesn't show it. You really don't want that. On a narrow screen you need to use both the space above and below the form to avoid things from getting crowded. I agree on that. The problem is that if the section I'm editing has a lot of text they disappear above and become very hard to reach. (They don't do that apparently.) I have removed almost everything from the field below so having those icons there in my case would be beneficial I believe. — Klein Muçi (talk) 16:38, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
Unrelated, but it looks like the link form insertion icon has become gigantic in desktop while the editor changing one has become microscopic. — Klein Muçi (talk) 16:38, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
Live preview has another problem in mobile: The text in it doesn't wrap around, choosing instead to forever continue on a straight line on the right. — Klein Muçi (talk) 17:17, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, I remember having activated something about suppressing the native icons, no? Shouldn't that include that small pencil below as well? "Hide Minerva's native section edit markers", the native pencil you see is to edit the full page. Also, can't the Factotum's 2 pencils be organized in a bit different way in the mobile mode that would allow easier understanding of what does what? How? Try "Add full page edit icon to toolbar instead of page heading". That puts the full page edit it in the "more" menu on mobile. It's disabled by default because adding items to the toolbar on the desktop skins tends to lead to quirks. having those icons there in my case would be beneficial I believe. Is an option now. Unrelated, but it looks like the link form insertion icon has become gigantic in desktop while the editor changing one has become microscopic. While testing the customized backgrounds (which make all buttons framed now) I noticed the buttons weren't all the same height when framed, so I made adjustments. Should be all fixed now. Live preview has another problem in mobile: The text in it doesn't wrap around, choosing instead to forever continue on a straight line on the right. Do explain/screenshot. Are you entering lots of text without spaces? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 07:34, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz: "Hide Minerva's native section edit markers", the native pencil you see is to edit the full page. Hmm... Can't that option be changed to include even that? :P Also, can't the Factotum's 2 pencils be organized in a bit different way in the mobile mode that would allow easier understanding of what does what? How? Maybe for mobiles, full page editing pencil has a slightly different icon like the pencil having actually written a straight line before it. ... I noticed the buttons weren't all the same height when framed, so I made adjustments. Should be all fixed now. They are but the text in the Cancel/Preview/Send buttons is gigantic now. Are you entering lots of text without spaces? Yes. When doing so, the text in the text form warps but in the preview it doesn't. — Klein Muçi (talk) 08:49, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
Also, maybe it is intended but when using a custom background, the aforementioned 3 buttons only get 1/3 of their body in the said background being 2/3 outside of it. — Klein Muçi (talk) 08:53, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
This is my current setup. I love it. I was just wondering if those 4 icons could somehow be arranged beside the cog, in that space that exists there. It's pretty good as it is though. - Klein Muçi (talk) 09:35, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, when using a custom background, the aforementioned 3 buttons only get 1/3 of their body in the said background Done Can't that option be changed to include even that? :P I was wrong, Minerva's top pencil isn't full page edit, it's lede edit. And ledes are sections. So, yes. They are but the text in the Cancel/Preview/Send buttons is gigantic now. Re-tweaked. Yes. When doing so, the text in the text form warps but in the preview it doesn't. DT handles this no better. Actually worse as the overflow becomes completely inaccessible. (where in Factotum you could at least scroll) Anyway, fixed. This is my current setup. I love it. I was just wondering if those 4 icons could somehow be arranged beside the cog, in that space that exists there. There are infinite combinations of screen width, overlay/not-overlay, interface size, elements above/below, buttons on the other side or not (which is particularly problematic), various languages (which change button size), etc. There's always going to be one more thing. This particular thing is the result of #FTTButtonBarRight having clear:both which was needed to force it under submit/preview/cancel. (which was requested, possibly by you) You could put .skin-minerva #FTTOverlay #FTTButtonBarRight{clear:none !important} in your common.css. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 23:42, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz: DT handles this no better. Actually worse as the overflow becomes completely inaccessible. (where in Factotum you could at least scroll) Anyway, fixed. I tried it and that behavior is still there for me. :-/ You could put .skin-minerva #FTTOverlay #FTTButtonBarRight{clear:none !important} in your common.css. I did but there was no change. I randomly noticed that the cog had fallen down a bit more (even before the CSS hack) but even like that is still cool for me. — Klein Muçi (talk) 08:56, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
Feature request (5 October 2022, 09:13)
Alexis Jazz, I'd like to be able to suppress identic edit notices if I've already seen them in a short amount of time. For example, article A has the X edit notice, article B has the same edit notice and so does article C. If I edit all the three articles in short amount of time (you decide on that), I want the X edit notice to popup only the first time. — Klein Muçi (talk) 09:13, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, bad idea because if sanctions are in effect for a selection of articles, you wouldn't know which ones without the popup. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:37, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
User:EpicPupper, User:Qwerfjkl, I've just created {{BCL}}. Qwerfjkl, add a {{BCL|type=section|alt=none}} (or whatever parameters you see fit) to whatever templates are substed to create CfD and your problems should be solved. EpicPupper, I wanted to fix various open issues before exposing Bawl to a wider audience. The important stuff I wanted to fix is fixed now. For The Signpost, in theory replacing the contents of Wikipedia:Signpost/Template:Signpost-article-comments-end with the contents from Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Templates/Signpost-article-comments-end/sandbox should theoretically do it. There are still open tasks, but nothing major, mostly timestamp detection in some languages (like, projects in other languages, the detection is flexible enough to detect more than English but not every language works) and translations of the settings. The title attribute should be set on all buttons for the visually impaired and someone experienced with screen readers should test it, which is not me. The bad news: something happened today, something I don't want to share. Whatever you imagine it is, it probably isn't, but it scared me and I recognized what it was. No point in worrying, praying or being concerned: there's nothing you can do. If this wasn't a non-recurring event, something I can't say for sure yet, I may stop responding at some point. As I have no intention of leaving the project without saying I'm OK, you should assume I'm not OK if I'm completely inactive without explanation for more than a month. I hoped for Bawl to be a gadget someday, not sure if that'll happen now, but Bawl should have more maintainers. It's no good for a tool to be completely dependent on a single developer. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 11:43, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
If you feel there are particular parts or aspects of the code you feel I should explain/document, ask it now. I'll try to continue what I do and maybe I'll be fine for years to come, but the future is uncertain. I'll do what I can to hang on, but I just don't know what'll happen next. If I disappear, I don't expect to be in a position to say goodbye. Again, whatever you might think is going on is probably not what's actually going on. But I'd be nice if Bawl wasn't fully dependent on me being around. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 11:46, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
Anything Bawl and ConvenientDiscussions could share?
@Jack who built the house: with Bawl nearing (once again, hopefully for real this time) a stable release, it's about time I asked. Bawl and ConvenientDiscussions have a largely overlapping goal but achieve it in quite different ways. The two aren't particularly compatible and I don't think there's any point in trying to achieve that. But in other areas we could perhaps try to be compatible. For example, Bawl uses the same method/format as CD to link another comment in the same discussion. (inserting an anchor) Maybe there are other things that could be taken advantage of. For example, CD could possibly use Bawl's locators when generating permalinks. (see my signature) Maybe you have some ideas? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:13, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
Hi! Great to see there is such a substantial development to what was previously reply-link. I've first spotted your tool in early June. I'll probably write to you more.As for your questions here:
Now that DT automatically adds an anchor to each comment, I think there is no point to continue development of other formats. CD has just been updated significantly, and now it uses DT comment IDs by default, only falling back to the native format (YYYYMMDDHHMM_Author[_Number]) when a corresponding DT ID was not found for the comment.
I also think it's quite likely that one day DT developers will devise a way to locate comments regardless of the page, so it would make more sense to track such development. Any markers added to wikitext would become outdated the moment such permalinking mechanism arrive. I've just found a task T275729.
On my talk page, I see a subscription button. As I already receive alerts when somebody edits it, this button is not needed. When copying permalinks, I would like to copy a Special:Permalink/ID link, not an URL. Is this possible? How can I remove the violet background when replying? There is no The last used option for Default editor for comments and new sections. How can I translate the interface of Factotum? And is there any way to make Factotum look like Discussion Tools, but in the same time keeping the features of Factotum? Although I think that Factotum is overall better than Discussion Tools, I prefer the UI of Discussion Tools. — --NGC 54 (talk｜contribs) 11:06, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
NGC 54, On my talk page, I see a subscription button. Not anymore. :-) When copying permalinks, I would like to copy a Special:Permalink/ID link, not an URL. Is this possible? Nope, because there aren't a lot of use cases for that. What do you need it for? URL rewriting automatically converts the URL to Special:Permanentlink/ID within Factotum. When using another other tool/editor, User:Alexis Jazz/Factotum#Use features from Factotum outside Factotum? can enable conversion in those. How can I remove the violet background when replying? Someone else had requested it. It's now optional and disabled by default. There is no The last used option for Default editor for comments and new sections. Added. How can I translate the interface of Factotum? See User:Alexis Jazz/Factotum/Mumbo jumbo#Translations. Partial translations also work. Let me know if you need help. And is there any way to make Factotum look like Discussion Tools, but in the same time keeping the features of Factotum? In the interface tab of the settings, enable:
"Put buttons on the other side like DiscussionTools"
"Put markup/link toolbar above reply form"
"Button to open user mention form"
"Annoy me with the terms of service/license all the time (you can disable this!)"
And disable "Button (magnifying glass) for search and replace". On the advanced tab, enable:
"Masquerade as reply-link (use plain text links instead of icons)"
"Button to switch between editors"
On the editing tab, enable "Live preview". This would get you fairly close. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 18:41, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
Issue (6 October 2022, 01:38)
Alexis Jazz, some issues which I'm not sure if they're bugs or not (or even related to Factotum per se):
On the desktop version I don't get Factotum on the main page. I do get it on the mobile version though. Why?
When changing language for an article on the mobile version, I'm not on the mobile site anymore (.m...). Is that related to Factotum?
Consider this workflow. On my cellphone, I search for Wikipedia on Google. I open the link for EnWiki and try to do various things with Factotum in it. I hit the "Back" button to go back but on many occasions that closes Wikipedia altogether and sends me back to the Google search results. This is not what I was trying to achieve. Is this related to Factotum? Can it do anything in that regard?
Klein Muçi, On the desktop version I don't get Factotum on the main page. I do get it on the mobile version though. Why? Because #firstHeading is hidden on the main page of the desktop version. It doesn't have to be though, q:en:Main Page for example doesn't hide #firstHeading. When changing language for an article on the mobile version, I'm not on the mobile site anymore (.m...). Is that related to Factotum? No. I see it though, [55] has links to non-mobile domains. They likely count on the automatic detection to redirect you to the mobile variant. Which won't work if you visited the mobile site on purpose. You could report it on Phabricator, but this may be intended behavior. Consider this workflow. Okay. On my cellphone First mistake. I search for Wikipedia on Google. Second mistake. I hit the "Back" button to go back ..to Google. but on many occasions that closes Wikipedia altogether and sends me back to the Google search results. Exactly. This is not what I was trying to achieve. Woops! Is this related to Factotum? No. Can it do anything in that regard? Could I hijack the back button of your browser? Not.. easily, and the side effects would be bad. I could change the anchor for various actions, but that wouldn't allow you to naturally go back without some major changes. If you were designing a tool from the ground up you could try to incorporate this. Putting it in afterwards? That won't be fun at all. You would have to change the anchor on specified actions, record the current state (form open or not, which form, which subforms like the link form or settings form, which sections are collapsed, scroll position, draft status, subscription status, etc etc etc), addEventListener to hashchange and restore a previous state when the hash changes to something for which the state was recorded. Recording the state is enough work, the idea of restoring a state gives me the shivers. Just enter en.wikipedia.org in your address bar. It's more secure. And teach your family and friends the same. Just enter domain names in the address bar. Don't search Google for the name of your bank if you want to log into your online banking environment. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 04:17, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, hmm, interesting... I'm not absolutely sure about this but I think the same inconsistency happened on some other places as well when Factotum loaded when "it shouldn't" load. I'd rather have the "desktop behavior" if I could choose. I want to have a light experience on mobile so I'd want it to load as in few times as possible. Paradoxically though, I have ninja mode turned off in mobile. And my mobile keeps crashing 1/3 times when I try to test Factotum. (This is still a big improvements from "the earlier days" when it would crash 100% of the cases.) Going out of the mobile site is another thing which I believe language changing isn't the only case. For this I'm certain. There are quite some cases when the same phenomenon happens, I just noted down this one to illustrate it. For me the mobile experience has always been pretty confusing. There are just many versions of it and I keep losing track of where I am and what is happening. (Beside these 2 modes, I also get a popup on talk pages which asks me if I want to open the simplified mode or not, which I have no idea what it does.) I almost always just go to the desktop site and use that. Phenomena like this add to that confusion. I'm not sure if Factotum can do/should do anything to help in this direction. Not to mention wiki-apps which add another complication layer to the whole thing. (Does Factotum interact with any of the apps by the way?) In regard to domain names vs Google searches... Why? Genuine question. Letting the sites I've bookmarked aside, all my workflows in the browser start like that. — Klein Muçi (talk) 10:16, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, (Does Factotum interact with any of the apps by the way?) No, that's impossible. And my mobile keeps crashing 1/3 times when I try to test Factotum. Not an actionable report. Going out of the mobile site is another thing which I believe language changing isn't the only case. Not my fault. In regard to domain names vs Google searches... Why? Genuine question. Because I buy Google ads for searches for "Raiffeisen bank" to visit my website, raiiffeisen.xyz. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 11:17, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz: Not an actionable report. Right but I can't tell much more about it. As I said, (while on mobile) I search for something related to Wikipedia on Google, follow the link and then try to test around various things, mostly related to discussions as that is what I mostly use Wikipedia editing in mobile. I must first wait for Factotum to load which takes a couple of seconds (unlike the desktop behavior) and when I see that the icons have loaded, I expand a random discussion and try replying to it. At this point I'm forced to remember that I must view an edit notice popup first. I remove that and finally I get to the reply form. Each described action takes its rather long time to happen and sometimes the time is increasing with each action. It is at this point that sometimes things freeze completely and "the system crashes" bringing me back to Google, where I started. Sometimes I forget to wait for Factotum to load or for the popup to load and then the waiting times are increased even more and the probability for a crash is way more higher. Editing existing sections further increases loading times (and crash probabilities) because now live preview will need even more time to load the text that is being edited before you can do something. I haven't been courageous enough to try full page editing for more than 2 times in total so far. — Klein Muçi (talk) 16:20, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, I must first wait for Factotum to load which takes a couple of seconds (unlike the desktop behavior) Can be affected by various things. Script size obviously, becoming a gadget would help with that as it would drop the gzipped+minified size from 200K to 140K and employ better caching strategies. A phone with a slow CPU and/or little memory and enabling many features wouldn't help either. Trying to view pages with many hundreds of comments (which will be a terrible experience on a phone regardless) wouldn't be advisable. AWBRegExTypoFix would be a VERY bad idea. Collapsible sections also add some considerable time. Live preview is also a bad idea. CodeMirror/CodeEditor are also very bad ideas. And if you compare ninja mode on desktop to regular mode on mobile, that's just unfair. I've done some limited testing using a Samsung Galaxy S4, but a budget phone from the same era fares considerably worse. At this point I'm forced to remember that I must view an edit notice popup first. ? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 11:15, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I disabled the typo fix. Maybe that helps. At this point I'm forced to remember that I must view an edit notice popup first. That's not related to Factotum per se. It's just that everything has at least 1 popup in SqWiki because every namespace has its editnotices where it explains what is going on and where you are. There are pages that have some extra editnotices but every page has at least 1. This is no problem at all when you're using the native way. That's why we've chosen for this way to begin with, because they are so easy to be ignored/missed there. The complete opposite is true for Factotum. You can't miss a thing. And that's good. But it has its drawbacks. In mobile it adds to the loading time part. In desktop you start to get annoyed when you do admin work in different pages and you have to see the same thing every time. This is why I some days ago I asked for that change to not show the same edit notice more than once in a short period of time. Now I'm thinking maybe a toggle to disable notices could be beneficial for mobiles but I'm not sure... :-/ Another thing: You archived the live preview bug report but the bug isn't solved yet. The text still does no wrapping whatsoever. It goes on forever on the right in a straight line. — Klein Muçi (talk) 14:33, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, because every namespace has its editnotices where it explains what is going on and where you are. You should add the "nopopupnotice" to an element of those notices as explained on Wikipedia:EditNoticesOnMobile#Usage, just like enwiki did for {{Editnotices/Namespace/File}}, {{Editnotices/Namespace/Template}} and {{Editnotices/Namespace/Category}}. If you deploy that class, maybe people at phab:T312999 will take notice and the same problem could be resolved on multiple platforms. The text still does no wrapping whatsoever. It goes on forever on the right in a straight line. With open preview and unbroken word, what is getComputedStyle($('#FTTPreviewBox')[0])['word-break'] ? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 07:20, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, not sure why your browser won't respect the CSS word-break property. What browser+version are you using? Does entering any of these (reload the page in between testing) make a difference?
Chrome is up to date Version 106.0.5249.103 (Official Build) (64-bit) Alexis Jazz, but how would I test that exactly? I experience the problem on my phone, on PC is alright. — Klein Muçi (talk) 12:22, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, what browser does your phone run? (and which phone do you have, anyway?) Tried a different one? Screenshot? (I don't know if/how the container overflows) Can you scroll to see the rest of the content? (frankly this isn't really an issue considering DT is no better in this area) Edit: nevermind, reproduced it — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 02:23, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, Factotum's mobile testing is soon coming to an end for me. I don't know if I can help a bit with logged out testing. I remember you asking me some time ago to test something in incognito. I'm not totally sure how would a logged out user use Factotum but if it can, please let me know how exactly to help and I'd be eager to do so. If you'd like that.
When that time comes, which will be in the next couple of days I suppose, I will most likely do 1 final test and see whatever old issues might have persisted and go on to try the existing modules for a while.
Meanwhile some other issues:
The arrows in settings should be a tiny bit darker I believe. They're easy to miss.
The header icons' row is getting rather long. What if some space is introduced between the navigating arrows and the rest of the icons? Or something else that would help clean a bit the visual clutter?
The settings themselves are getting rather long. I'm unable to suggest any improvements there though. Only things I can think of are introducing even more collapsing functionalities and headers in there.
Klein Muçi, I'm not totally sure how would a logged out user use Factotum but if it can, please let me know how exactly Either by loading it locally using Greasemonkey or similar, or by using AnonLoader which I hadn't written yet when you asked this. See the sidebar on https://commons.wikimedia.beta.wmflabs.org/. The arrows in settings should be a tiny bit darker I believe. Made them as dark as possible What if some space is introduced between the navigating arrows and the rest of the icons? Would probably be worse. Only things I can think of are introducing even more collapsing functionalities and headers in there. Would probably be worse. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 23:51, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I'll take a look at those possibilities as soon as I'm done with the modules. Thank you! The arrows are fine now. I have only one question: In the settings the bug-report button now reads: Factotum. (period) Intentional? Would probably be worse. I believe introducing more space would be better if the section's title isn't too long (and in most cases it isn't) as to make the icons wrap around below it. As for the settings, the way I see it, headers are "malleable" currently and there is space to introduce new ones. Load, Interface and Editing have no clear as crystal identity and they could be potentially merged if we so wished. However we most likely want the opposite of that to make lists shorter (at the expense of increasing the horizontal list of tabs). Considering all this I believe it is very likely you can work with them and be able to create some new headers. But do what you think is the best yourself. — Klein Muçi (talk) 09:10, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, Factotum. (period) Intentional? marketing if the section's title isn't too long (and in most cases it isn't) You don't know that, because you don't know the viewport size of the user. and there is space to introduce new ones You've visited Special:Preferences lately? Especially on a smaller screen: bad idea. Load, Interface and Editing have no clear as crystal identity and they could be potentially merged if we so wished Ugh. Load = whatever happens before opening any form Interface = what the form looks like Editing = stuff that affects actual editing But do what you think is the best yourself. I plan to add another toggle (or maybe merge with the expert/dangerous toggles into a dropdown) to show unpopular options, and uncheck it by default. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 10:42, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, you know how the WMF is always so interested in statistics? This is one thing where they'd be useful. But Factotum doesn't even have enough users for an acceptable sample size, so I can only guess which options to hide by default. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 08:41, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, eh, I understand. I'm guessing that now that you're finally out of the Beta deep waters you'll start having a clearer view of Factotum and its usage. If it catches on or not and how much it does that. — Klein Muçi (talk) 10:30, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
Issue (7 October 2022, 09:09)
Alexis Jazz, some days ago we talked about testing and changing the mail text for notifications. I'm not sure if you ever did make changes to it but it does look basic in content as it currently is.
I'm guessing you already know how a typical Wikipedia email looks in these occasions. Can you make the text template be more similar to it? — Klein Muçi (talk) 09:09, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, this is a watchlist-related email: Header: Wikipedia page User talk:Alexis Jazz/Factotum has been changed by Alexis Jazz Body: Wikipedia <wiki@wikimedia.org> 9:15 AM (1 hour ago) to me Dear Klein Muçi, The Wikipedia page User talk:Alexis Jazz/Factotum has been changed on 8 October 2022 by Alexis Jazz, see User talk:Alexis Jazz/Factotum for the current revision. To view this change, see User talk:Alexis Jazz/Factotum (Diff ~1114729602) For all changes since your last visit, see User talk:Alexis Jazz/Factotum (Diff 0) Editor's summary: [[User talk:Alexis Jazz/Factotum#Issue (5 October 2022, 09:29)|#Issue (5 October 2022, 09:29)]] moved to [[User talk:Alexis Jazz/Factotum/Archives/2022#Issue (5 October 2022, 09:29)]]
And this is a mention-related email: Alexis Jazz mentioned you on User talk:Alexis Jazz/Factotum in "Issue (6 October 2022, 16:58)". Klein Muçi, I'm not totally sure how would a logged out user use Factotum but if it can, please let me know how exactly Either by loading it locall... Shiko përmëndjen Alexis Jazz Shiko ndryshimet The last 3 phrases are buttons and this email also has some styling incorporated in it. The links in both emails have been auto-conversed by Factotum. Emails can vary from project to project because they can be set up in TranslateWiki but they have more or less the same overall look/content. — Klein Muçi (talk) 09:22, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, looks different from the one I got. Do you have HTML email format enabled on Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-echo ? You can't use HTML with the mail API. Edit: oh I see, the first one you posted is for a watchlist change. I thought you meant DT's notification. (which is completely different) — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 10:48, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I do have that. I'm bad with discerning notification types. Those 2 are the 2 main types of emails I get from Wikipedia and where 90% of my daily workflows start from. I get SO much of those emails and reports from Phabricator that with the help of another user here I was able to create a script to delete those emails periodically because my mailbox would hit the 1k mark in a couple of days/week all the time. — Klein Muçi (talk) 14:38, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
I'm guessing you meant the type of email below. Header: Trappist the monk replied in "Another post about date regexes". Body: Trappist the monk replied in "Another post about date regexes". Why did you not do as I said: At the end before restoring template opening and closing curly braces, replace __L_CURLY__ and __R_CURLY__ with the a... View comment Trappist the monk Shiko ndryshimet Unsubscribe This is also styled the same as the mention one for me. This is for replies, also something I get often. — Klein Muçi (talk) 16:44, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, you can't have HTML mails. So no named links. So any suggestions have to work with plain text mails. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:35, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, ahh... So, you can't auto-discern where messages are coming from as well, no? Is something like "There are new messages on Wikipedia/WikiQuote..." out of questions? And you can't send multiple messages because of the current limitations, no? So sending 1 message per page is also out of questions. And you can't have any kind of styling... If all what I said is correct, what we currently have is the best set up... — Klein Muçi (talk) 10:39, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
Issue (8 October 2022, 09:53)
Alexis Jazz, put some text in a text form. Decide that you actually have a perfect templated answer for that case. Select the whole text and click the said templated answer hoping to replace it. Be disappointed when the replacement doesn't happen and the templated answer just gets added to the existing text.
Klein Muçi, no because my <code><nowiki>FTTCRT</nowiki></code>:<<CODE>> custom insert which surrounds selected text would break. In your case, just press delete before you click the templated answer. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 10:54, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, I guess technically you could add something to your templated answers and have a regular expression to remove it and everything within. Like, have {{FAQ}}DESTROYUNIQSTARTFTTCRTDESTROYUNIQEND:<<click me>> combined with a regular expression like /DESTROYUNIQSTART[^]*DESTROYUNIQEND//. (need to hit submit or preview for the selected text to actually disappear) — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:31, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
line 1091: widget not found Uncaught Error: Widget not found at OO.ui.Element.static.unsafeInfuse (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init%7Cjquery%2Coojs-ui-core%7Cjquery.ui&skin=vector-2022&version=tgn0i:445:739) at OO.ui.Element.static.infuse (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init%7Cjquery%2Coojs-ui-core%7Cjquery.ui&skin=vector-2022&version=tgn0i:445:504) at OO.ui.infuse (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init%7Cjquery%2Coojs-ui-core%7Cjquery.ui&skin=vector-2022&version=tgn0i:442:16) at HTMLSpanElement.<anonymous> (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init%7Cjquery%2Coojs-ui-core%7Cjquery.ui&skin=vector-2022&version=tgn0i:34:968) at Function each (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init%7Cjquery%2Coojs-ui-core%7Cjquery.ui&skin=vector-2022&version=tgn0i:299:285) at jQuery.fn.init.each (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init%7Cjquery%2Coojs-ui-core%7Cjquery.ui&skin=vector-2022&version=tgn0i:297:93) at new ReplyLinksController (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init%7Cjquery%2Coojs-ui-core%7Cjquery.ui&skin=vector-2022&version=tgn0i:34:930) at Object init (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init%7Cjquery%2Coojs-ui-core%7Cjquery.ui&skin=vector-2022&version=tgn0i:7:701) at reallyInit (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init%7Cjquery%2Coojs-ui-core%7Cjquery.ui&skin=vector-2022&version=tgn0i:1:564) at mw.dt.init (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init%7Cjquery%2Coojs-ui-core%7Cjquery.ui&skin=vector-2022&version=tgn0i:1:694) — Qwerfjkltalk16:16, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, what were you doing on what page? Reproducible? Can you see what's on line 1091? (as line 1091 in the script file doesn't look interesting) Isn't there something missing at the start of the log? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 17:24, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
line 1091: widget not found Uncaught Error: Widget not found at OO.ui.Element.static.unsafeInfuse (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init%7Cjquery%2Coojs-ui-core%7Cjquery.ui&skin=vector-2022&version=tgn0i:445:739) at OO.ui.Element.static.infuse (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init%7Cjquery%2Coojs-ui-core%7Cjquery.ui&skin=vector-2022&version=tgn0i:445:504) at OO.ui.infuse (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init%7Cjquery%2Coojs-ui-core%7Cjquery.ui&skin=vector-2022&version=tgn0i:442:16) at HTMLSpanElement.<anonymous> (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init%7Cjquery%2Coojs-ui-core%7Cjquery.ui&skin=vector-2022&version=tgn0i:34:968) at Function each (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init%7Cjquery%2Coojs-ui-core%7Cjquery.ui&skin=vector-2022&version=tgn0i:299:285) at jQuery.fn.init.each (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init%7Cjquery%2Coojs-ui-core%7Cjquery.ui&skin=vector-2022&version=tgn0i:297:93) at new ReplyLinksController (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init%7Cjquery%2Coojs-ui-core%7Cjquery.ui&skin=vector-2022&version=tgn0i:34:930) at Object init (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init%7Cjquery%2Coojs-ui-core%7Cjquery.ui&skin=vector-2022&version=tgn0i:7:701) at reallyInit (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init%7Cjquery%2Coojs-ui-core%7Cjquery.ui&skin=vector-2022&version=tgn0i:1:564) at mw.dt.init (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init%7Cjquery%2Coojs-ui-core%7Cjquery.ui&skin=vector-2022&version=tgn0i:1:694) — Qwerfjkltalk16:16, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, what were you doing on what page? Reproducible? Can you see what's on line 1091? (as line 1091 in the script file doesn't look interesting) Isn't there something missing at the start of the log? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 17:24, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
{"int":129,"type":"comment","subtype":"legacy","id":"Primefac:07:50 19 October 2022 (UTC):129","pageTitleInt":106,"origReplyTo":"Primefac","origTimestamp":"07:50 19 October 2022 (UTC)","origTimestampTextNode":") 07:50, 19 October 2022 (UTC)","seq":0,"origReplyToUnderscore":"Primefac","pageTitle":"Template talk:Infobox character","sectionTitle":"Template-protected edit request on 16 October 2022","sectionseq":0}
Factotum doesn't detect a comment if the timestamp is wrapped in <small>...</small> (or maybe just an isolated case).
if you add a comment via the speech bubble just below the section header, the edit summary is '/* Section */ + [Factotum].' Something more like the normal comment summary, but with 'new comment' or something would be preferable. There's probably a similar problem with the edit summary if you add a new subsection similarly.
Qwerfjkl, 1. Link? If the whole signature/comment is wrapped in small tags it should have worked. If it's just the timestamp, that doesn't occur "naturally", though it appears to work anyway. (I vaguely remember fixing this for some bots/templates for signing unsigned posts.. not sure) 2. Added snippet, went with "+comment". (there's no "new $1" or similar message in MediaWiki that I could find and I try to minimize reliance on own translations) — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:11, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz, sorry for the late reply. An example of 1 is '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|<span style="font-size:92%;color:darkblue;font-family:Segoe Script">P.I. Ellsworth</span>]]''''' , [[Editor|<span style="color:black">ed.</span>]] [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|<sup>put'r there</sup>]] <small>23:05, 18 October 2022 (UTC)</small> — Qwerfjkltalk06:12, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, where did this occur? Four tildes shouldn't be able to substitute into that. It got incorrectly identified as a wikilove comment (which I fixed), but otherwise seemed to work fine. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 08:16, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
Paine Ellsworth, how did you do this? Three + five tildes? Substitution? I can't think of another way atm. Qwerfjkl, you don't even see a speech bubble after Paine's comment? If so, can you post a new report with kitty so I can try to reproduce? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 16:47, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
Paine Ellsworth, while very creative, I'm not sure that would be considered a valid signature. (but I asked for input at VPT) Factotum has similar functionality, see [58]. based on the description, TemplateScript may have more options in this particular area. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 03:36, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
I did not create this usage, just as I did not create my userpage title styles (shamelessly taken from HJ Mitchell's pages) nor the angle transformations at the top of my talk page (shamelessly taken from your talk page). I started using small tags after seeing them used by another editor. One example of a bot that is okay with it would be the RMCD bot. I've relisted hundreds of move requests and started some as well, and the RMCD bot has never triggered a timestamp error. It takes the RM from the Elapsed or Backlogged sections on the WP:RM page and places it in the correct date section in the normal way. So wbm1058 seems to have refined the RMCD bot in miraculous ways! P.I. Ellsworth , ed.put'r there23:20, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, it appears I had already created an exception for Ellsworth's signature. However, to prevent/reduce false positives it only searched one link in the parentElement. Which is enough for Ellsworth by default, but User:Qwerfjkl/scripts/talkback adds additional links and the last link (closest to the timestamp) didn't provide the username. Now I search more than one llink back. This could lead to some timestamps that aren't signatures being detected as a signature. There may be no way to avoid that. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 17:08, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, I don't think so? Factotum only searched the link in the parentElement closest to the parentElement of the signature. With the talkback script, the closest link is a #TBsubmitnn link ("TB") which doesn't have any href from which a username could be extracted. More on Wikipedia:Village pump (technical) (revision 1117614282). — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 17:46, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
I could just add a non-visible link to the end. (Something like <a href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:USER'>​</a>?) Would that help? — Qwerfjkltalk18:47, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, that seems to work. (tested it) The User_talk>User replacement isn't even needed, Factotum can extract the username from links to User:, User_talk:, Special:Contributions/ and localized variants. I've reduced the number of elements to search back to what it was to reduce the risk of false positives. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 13:20, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
Factotum-FinalFinalFinal
[FEATURE] - Subscriptions are very important for me so I always use both kinds of them for every post (DT+FTT). Given that DT can provide a more complex environment in that direction currently because of technical limitations FTT faces (unsubscription feature + better email notifications) I'd really love it if we could auto-subscribe in DT while using FTT. It would save me 1 extra step I always take anyway.
[QUESTION] - There are cases when there are no sections in a said talk page and you get the flowery form of DT (if you have that function enabled). Everything is fine for me personally but I thought you should know and maybe Factotum wants to somehow "interact" with those cases as well.
[FEATURE] - The weirdpipetrick acts a bit weird. I don't know if something can be done about the way it acts but the words that randomly appear and take random times to disappear (sometimes they don't and sometimes they come back multiple times in the live preview) and make the change are very "disturbing" each time it happens. And it happens quite a lot for me as I utilize that trick often.
[BUG] - There is some weird movement on specific comments on mobile. You are normally scrolling through page and some comments behave as they have their own scrollbar. If you happen to try and scroll over them, they will "scroll at place" jiggling around. You have to press somewhere else to allow for page scrolling to continue.
[QUESTION] - This is a very naive question but how do you use Factotum in non-mobile site when you're using mobile? Like, when the site changes automatically when following certain links as we've discussed in the past.
[FEATURE] - Can we please have 1 single button (setting) to quickly "disable" Factotum from mobile?
[FEATURE] - Can we please have 1 single button (setting) to quickly masquerade Factotum as DT?
[FEATURE] - There are people that don't want Factotum in their talkpages for different reasons. Look what happened here. Maybe you can devise a flag that someone can put on their talkpage that disables FTT on those pages and notifies FTT users about what's going on?
[FEATURE] - Many, many days ago we talked about adding a resolved/unresolved function to talk-sections, similar to what Flow does in Mediawiki. You said that you were waiting for CD to implement something similar for parity but it never happened. FTT has evolved a lot since then. Can you now implement such a feature? It could pair very well with the collapse/expand functionality we already have.
[QUESTION] -There are some quote issues which are not related to FTT itself. Links don't work. But wikimarkup sometimes does work and I need to use nowiki to disable it. Any idea why we have that behavior from that template? I'd want the exact opposite of that myself.
[QUESTION] - "What happened" with the ref-insertion form? I can't seem to find it anymore. Maybe I've disabled it somehow?
Klein Muçi, sorry, I'm done. I took stock yesterday and found ~18 users who currently load Factotum. Many of those would be inactive or may be ignoring what's loading. Two (Donald Trung and guarapiranga) dislike it. Possibly worse, some users who were very enthusiastic about it uninstalled it within a week. User retention is crap. I already considered this project a failure at that point and decided I wouldn't waste time adding any serious features. But I guess Diff 1114927818 which you just linked was the stroke that broke the camel's back. I must have wasted over a thousand hours on this. I never kept track. You remember how I said I "promised myself a big reward for getting this project to the finish line"? That was 18 August, nearly 2 months ago. For over 2 months I thought I'd allow myself something worthwhile. Now I'm thinking I will just avoid it. This isn't the finish line, this is the graveyard. :'( — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:21, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, this is sad to read. There will always be people not agreeing/enjoying what you're doing. Especially in EnWiki where the environments is buzzing with millions of users (and most of them hate everything newly introduced, no matter if it is done by a user or the WMF itself). My plan was to activate Factotum on Meta as a global script after this list was exhausted and set it up as a gadget with your permission in my homewiki after I finished testing it in anonymous mode. That would help in increasing global user numbers I suppose. I've also been involved in this project for more than 4 months myself so I understand how you're feeling but if my words have any value I'd just say to make this a very long rest instead of the death of the project (and possibly reconsider changing the FTT presentation page in a near future). As you may have seen in my comment just below the one you linked, FTT has given me what I've been looking forward in wiki-discussions for years, all in one place, and it is because of this potential I continued interacting here for around half a year. I'd hate to not see it in fruition of being turned into a gadget, even if not at EnWiki (although I think EnWiki is a possibility too eventually). Of course, in wiki-world there are no binding contracts of this sort but as I said, if my words have any value... — Klein Muçi (talk) 13:04, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, My plan was to activate Factotum on Meta as a global script after this list was exhausted Every time a new list came. New bugs, regressions, feature requests, everything. This "FinalFinalFinal" wasn't going to be the last either. I considered requesting deletion or blanking it, but that would possibly be considered disruptive as well. This project has to die, or at the very least my involvement in it. I'm sorry we wasted our time. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 13:15, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, this list had only 1 bug report and mostly questions for help. That's an overall improvement, at least in my eyes. This "FinalFinalFinal" wasn't going to be the last either. You're right on that. The plan was to have some more reporting in regard to anonymous usage as well, as I've said. But all this is a bit paradoxical, again in my eyes: From one side you want to increase user usage numbers but from the other side you want your involvement with the project to die. You say there are less than 20 users currently and me and Qwerfjkl have been active with requests for months. Let's say you had 200 users. Don't you think you'd get even more requests that would require your involvement? One way to resolve that paradox would be to have new developers join in as part of those 200 users but that would just mean you want help - which is only human - not that such requests are problematic per se. If I was at your place I'd wish for as many similar requests as possible. That means interest and further perfection. (Regressions have been negligible throughout all this time.) — Klein Muçi (talk) 13:33, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, You're right on that. The plan was to have some more reporting in regard to anonymous usage as well, as I've said. See, it's never over. Factotum would never be a gadget on sqwiki because you're a perfectionist. And it'll never be perfect. From one side you want to increase user usage numbers but from the other side you want your involvement with the project to die. These past months have been torture. And putting this much time into something used by roughly a handful of users is just insane. Let's say you had 200 users. Don't you think you'd get even more requests that would require your involvement? Barely, as a cutoff for major feature requests was always planned but not executed soon enough. Those requests would be either for bugs (which should get better as the major ones get fixed) and minor features/changes that can be implemented without major risk like CSS fixes or additional module insertion points. Any major feature would be redirected to "go write a module" and wouldn't be my concern. One way to resolve that paradox would be to have new developers join in as part of those 200 users but that would just mean you want help - which is only human - not that such requests are problematic per se. As it often is with these things, it's unlikely for anyone to volunteer so the burden remains entirely on me - something I don't want. Just one co-developer would make a massive difference, but there isn't one. Or I'd love it if I could borrow a WMF developer for a few hours a week. Wouldn't need the top tier, I'd totally settle for a summer of code student, some intern or something like that. Or even without programming skills: a secretary to handle issue reports, structure them and extract the required information from reporters. Basically what Aklapper does on Phabricator. That's been one thing that would grind me down badly and I hate to ask the very same questions again and again and again. And it took a major chunk of my time, too. And I should have written m:User:FactoTest1/global.js to imitate users months ago. And I didn't realize soon enough that your endless stream of reports is literally endless. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 03:49, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, I'm also sad to read this. I wish you luck in whatever you decide to do. Thank you. I don't know yet. There's only so much a person can take. These last months have been torturous. As I'll keep using Factotum myself it won't die completely anyway. I made some mistakes, but many were unavoidable. I should have probably made a stable version months ago instead of this permanent rolling release that has been rather Sid-like. Problem is, that's both more work and I'd have had far fewer testers, if any at all. At some early point I had a decision to make: add a start-of-comment marker or squeeze everything onto a single indented line. I picked the latter. I got complaints/questions from several users. But if I had gone with the former, I assume the same thing would have happened. And having nothing is hardly an option, wikitext discussions lack the structure to be reliably processed. And even with a start-of-comment marker, some of the "obfuscated" wikitext would remain like the stuff to realize indented syntaxhighlight. I should have stopped adding major features months ago. Maybe increase the shift towards modules. Well this one's on me.. I shouldn't give a rat's ass about Trappist the monk's opinion, a user who is incapable of accepting an apology. But hitting me at a rather bad moment, hurtful comments can have a serious impact. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 03:18, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, I'd have hoped you would have taken the hint from my section splitting that I hate these lists. Handling them is torture. Any single unresolved issue makes it impossible to archive these sections. 1. Have someone who isn't me write a module for it. Consider learning JavaScript! 2. Was a regression, script got stuck looking for VE the detection of which was added relatively recently. 3. That's why it's called a weird pipetrick. I don't recommend anyone to use it and don't intend to support or fix it. 4. I've told you before. No links, no screenshots, no movie, no settings, no nothing. I can't read minds. 5. See 4. And you didn't explain what happens and what you expected. You should follow the guidelines from mw:How to report a bug everywhere. (not just here) As some developers on Phabricator can get rather anal about this I generally tried to be lenient, but with this report volume that's torture. 6. See 1 7. See 1 8. Tell them to either write a better tool or stuff it. 9. Jack doesn't wanna play ball, we don't play ball 10. See 4 and 5. But you're talking about a template? Presumably {{tq}}? So why didn't you ask on Template talk:tq? 11. See 4 and 5. 12. Extra: Code Mirror compatibility issues. I know, I know. You know, so why'd you ask? I declined more than once. Yet you just keep asking. Allowing CM to be loaded at all may have been a mistake. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 04:21, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, you're currently suffering from a severe case of m:Wikistress and 75% of your current answers are outside of wiki-scopes and 25% of them are also outside of ethical means. 2 concepts I've said many times and I'll have to repeat again:
THERE IS NO DEADLINE;
WIKIPEDIA IS ALWAYS IMPROVING/EVOLVING;
These are concepts me and a couple of other wiki-users live and work by in this project (symbolized by the ever non-fully created logo). Trappist and other users have been working for years for the CS1 module (I've been around 5 years myself involved with that) and it still gets regular updates. As do most featured articles, as does everything else in here. You are fixated on the finish line and have shifted that as your main point of view wanting to hit it at every cost. That gets you desperate on "big lists that are impossible to archive", "new requests" and everything of the same sort. Factotum was in an unstable state, having dozens of bugs, an un-uniformed UI and not much support for mobiles. You went around marketing it everywhere on WP:VPT and WP:US/R and even asked for ideas, suggestions and such requests by everyone. I can find a lot of your comments where you ask people to do exactly what you say you detest doing here, both in your personal talk page and in other more public venues. This was all normal like every other big project of the sort. You yourself started solving everything and actually created a stabilized state where there are almost no bugs and most of the requests were either on niche cases or feature requests. And then things turned weird. You started getting desperate to "finish it". This literally makes almost 0 sense. Notepad++ has been released 18 years ago and still gets regular updates. You are a developer, you know how software works, it's not up to me to tell you that. Even if it would be over for me, a tester, you yourself should want to find other testers and find other things to explore on your software, especially after you've created the modular nature of Factotum. Wanting to have more cooperation, both in developing help and in testing, wanting to have more users, wanting to have a stabilized version all make a lot of sense but wanting to hit the finish line and talking about projects taking too much time don't... in the wiki-world. You should be working for your personal fun because other than that there are no big grands to be made out of it. And if you're doing something that gives you fun, you keep doing it and keep trying to find ways to keep doing it even when other people say it's maybe over. You don't talk with terms that involve "graves" and "torture" because you're not coerced to do something here, either by force or by economical reasons. Something is not giving you fun anymore for whatever reason? You stop doing that. That is normal. But putting the blame for that in other people not liking your project or in having too many bug tickets for bugs that actually were there (you've thanked us in the summaries for each one of them) or in having too many feature requests some of which you yourself have ended up using (you've said so yourself) makes no sense in this scenario. — Klein Muçi (talk) 12:27, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
I didn't ask there because I wanted your opinion first on it given that Factotum depends on it. In the past you've textually asked me to refrain myself for asking for changes on features Factotum relies upon. This is again part of your shifted attitude.
What links can I possibly send about me not knowing where to locate the ref-insertion-form anymore?!
As for all the other features you don't wanna support... It's your game and you decide on the rules but that harms the overall user experience. Take the supposed talk-page flag for example. If that was a thing I'd use FTT even more freely that I'm currently using, not being worried that I may be "stepping on mines", because "mines" would have flags on them. Now I am. This is why this list in my eyes needed to be exhausted before introducing it in the global scale/Meta. (Even before Trappist's comment, I've talked you about the HTML elements FTT introduces that "pollute" the source code for many users.) Masquerading as DT? You are already aware of my wiki-mentoring. (And I remember there was another user who asked for the same thing.) Quickly disabling it on mobile? There are phones that can't support it and if you switch accounts, you may want to temporarily do that. These options would allow you to temporarily "fly over mines". Of course, in an ideal world there wouldn't be "mines" at all but we don't live in such a world. We live in ~8 billion people world in which God knows what they've decided to throw on the ground. And thus, we adjust accordingly for all that junk in the ground. Walking proudly over such mines pretending they don't exist doesn't make them go away, it just makes your legs go away.
Klein Muçi, which will have a scrollbar on its own. At least for me. For me too, fixed. In the past you've textually asked me to refrain myself for asking for changes on features Factotum relies upon. This is again part of your shifted attitude. That was very different. That was about DT, which could (and sometimes does) break things for everyone. Templates aren't that important, and if any particular wiki screws up their {{tq}} template, I could create an exception for them to use another template or the HTML fallback. And back then, you wanted to request changes, but this seems different. I have some doubts this behavior can be changed at all. Assuming it could reasonably be done it would be very low priority. What links can I possibly send about me not knowing where to locate the ref-insertion-form anymore?! A link to a page+action where you expected it to be available but it wasn't. Much better still: just use kitty to generate a report so I can nearly duplicate the circumstances. And explain where you looked, where you thought it would be. but that harms the overall user experience. You don't know that. Take the supposed talk-page flag for example. If that was a thing I'd use FTT even more freely that I'm currently using, not being worried that I may be "stepping on mines", because "mines" would have flags on them. Now I am. Anyone can be offended by anything. A flag would have solved nothing as your comment would have been broken using DT. Factotum does what was considered impossible before. It came at a price, but this was the only way. If people want to ban other people from using #tag or whatever other code on their talk page, they can deploy an edit notice. You could configure a regular expression to remove newlines from your syntaxhighlight. That would prevent the #tag conversion too. /(<syntaxhighlight[^>]*>([^<\n]*|<(?!\/syntax))*)\n/$1/g seems to work, may need to enter that multiple times to be sure to catch everything. Quickly disabling it on mobile? Uncheck "Load links on Minerva (mobile)" Masquerading as DT? The DT-like layout is now the default, I don't like it but people got used to DT so that's what they expect now.. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 06:43, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
I'm still bouncing back, but every time I fall into a hole here it takes longer to recover. Klein Muçi, "finishing it" didn't mean abandoning it. It meant reaching a stable state where it could transition from being actively developed to just being supported. Getting to a point where I would personally consider it feature complete and relatively bug-free. Notepad++ had a stable release. CS1 was ready for production at some point. You don't talk with terms that involve "graves" and "torture" because you're not coerced to do something here, either by force or by economical reasons. You have no idea what's at play anyway. Before plunging myself into some other endeavors, things that will take quite a lot of my time, I was hoping to get this thing - which per the sunk cost fallacy was already my biggest project to date - to a stable state as otherwise it'd never be finished. And it felt like it nearly was. That's when you came. You're good at finding bugs, but not quite as good at reporting them. Your reports wouldn't survive Phabricator. Never. And if you ignored gentle nudges followed by clear instructions to change your reporting style, they'd block you. or in having too many bug tickets for bugs that actually were there No, that wasn't the issue! The issue was there weren't enough tickets. You regularly dumped 10+ issues in a single ticket. I'd resolve/decline 8 of them quickly, but one or two will turn out to be difficult. But until those get resolved, the other 8 or 9 can't be archived either. (you've thanked us in the summaries for each one of them) That may have been a mistake. It seemed like a nice thing to do when several people reported issues. But maybe thanking every reporter for every single issue created a perverse stimulus to keep reporting. You dangled a carrot in front of me - becoming a gadget on sqwiki, reaching a stable state - for weeks or months. Every report was the final report. And I was stupid enough to believe it every single time. And you never let go. Some of your suggestions I didn't fully agree with, but implemented them anyway because it was easier than the alternative. Because if I didn't, you'd just keep bringing up the same thing until I did implement it. No matter if I already declined the damn thing repeatedly. I tried to nudge you. More than once. You ignored it. And then I just snapped. Yes, you broke me. Looking back, I'm kinda surprised how much it took. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 15:33, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, You dangled a carrot in front of me - becoming a gadget on sqwiki, reaching a stable state - for weeks or months. Every report was the final report. And I was stupid enough to believe it every single time. There are 2 misconceptions there which for 1 maybe I should ask for forgiveness: Every report was the final report. - The FinalFinal thing was a running gag I was trying to make to alleviate pressure. The idea was that after every dev-sprint you (and me) participated, there would be 1 final post and since there would be 3-5 sprints in total, at least in my mind (one for desktop, one for mobile, one for modules, one for IP-editing, one for other tools/projects interaction), the FinalFinalFinal name would be increasing the repetitions similar to the meme of how students (and scholars) name their papers in Microsoft Word sometimes Final.doc, FinalFinal.doc, TheFinalest.doc, FINAL.doc... Some examples of that:
I was just trying to make things better with humor, I wasn't trying to create a false sense of finishing. Sometimes humor gets misunderstood and maybe this is one of these cases. For that, I'm sorry and I do apologize if I have wrongly created that false sense. And I was stupid enough to believe it every single time. - This is wrong. There is no lie involved. I will set it up as a gadget in my homewiki soon. That's not to make you feel better about your work, that's just because of a basic necessity: We (and I believe other projects as well) need such a tool. This has happened in the past as well and it will happen again because that's what most of my wikiwork consists of. Here is one example of that: Wikipedia:User scripts/Requests#Accept changes on Special:RecentChanges (the discussion continued quite some more in the user's talk page until we fixed all details).
For me too, fixed. Fixed indeed. Thank you! If people want to ban other people from using #tag or whatever other code on their talk page, they can deploy an edit notice. The idea was that if a user complains about it, I can just give them this "flag" and say something like: well, consider putting this code on your talkpage then so me and other FTT users know not to use it on your page. And that would have a two-fold mechanism where it would notify me of what was going on and also deactivate FTT from me on that page. Same as it works with bot-controlling behaviors and templates. If you don't want to support that behavior is okay though. — Klein Muçi (talk) 12:12, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, I had completely missed the attempt at humor. and also deactivate FTT from me on that page That would be a very nice exploit for vandals. Imagine I could just post some "deactive DT" flag on WP:Help desk. Or put it in my signature! Of course, you can add certain pages to the blacklist ("Never load Factotum when page title matches") when asked if you really want. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 14:18, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, fair enough. Hadn't thought of that scenario. Too much WP:good faith. I'll go and activate Factotum on Meta then. Can you please teach me how to use it as an IP in Chrome? Apparently Greasemonkey is Firefox only and I don't know how to utilize AnonLoader. — Klein Muçi (talk) 23:05, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, 1. Tampermonkey 2. (not persistent) Enter mw.loader.load('//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Alexis_Jazz/Factotum.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript'); on the browser console 3. (not persistent) Copy the script to MediaWiki: namespace on sqwiki and visit [59] (registering as a gadget is not required for withJS, the script just has to reside in MediaWiki: namespace as scripts in user space can't be loaded through withJS for security reasons) 4. (not persistent) Visit [60] (betacommons only) 5. When visiting betacommons anonymously, there's a "+ Factotum" link in the sidebar. That's anonloader. (this may get hidden behind a link named "gadgets" later) Found the ref insertion form yet? If not, kitty. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 05:11, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, sorry, I'm confused. I installed Tampermonkey. Then I entered that line in the console. I get 'undefined'. Then you say to copy the Script in MediaWiki. So I created this but I have a feeling it should be on the "gadget namespace" no? And what does "not persistent" mean in this case? I haven't gone through with the other steps yet. As for the ref insertion form, yes, I found it. The only things remaining from that list are the weirdpipetrick, the auto-DT sub and the resolved/unresolved states. The weirdpipetrick actually works, it's just the livepreview that is weird with it. The words TAILPIPETRICK come, I refresh it, they're gone and then they come back, I refresh it, they're gone and then they come back again, again, ad infinitum. It's okay if it is going to be weird though, as you said. Just explaining in case you need to fix something with the livepreview feature. As for the other 2 features, it's okay again. You can archive this after dealing with the Tampermonkey thing. — Klein Muçi (talk) 09:49, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
Also, not fully related but I was re-reading this and it got me wondering: Of course, you can add certain pages to the blacklist ("Never load Factotum when page title matches") when asked if you really want. Any way to make the effect local instead of global? (Beside using local preferences.) Let's say I put Harry Potter there, it would block Factotum in all the HP articles everywhere globally (given the same name) and more, no? Would this work to limit it to SqWiki: w:sq:Harry Potter? What about: w:sq:User talk:Alexis Jazz (combination of "sq" + English terms)? — Klein Muçi (talk) 10:00, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, [61] works. Naming it MediaWiki:Gadget-Factotum.js would be needed to also be able to register it in w:sq:MediaWiki:Gadgets-definition so I tend to name everything gadget, just in case, so I won't have to move anything later to register it. You'll have to look up a guide for Tampermonkey or ask VPT, I haven't tried it myself. (all I know is that it should basically work like Greasemonkey but for Chrome) And what does "not persistent" mean in this case? That when you navigate away from the page you're on (click a link), Factotum will no longer be loaded. With any non-persistent method it is only loaded for the currently loaded page. Would this work to limit it to SqWiki: w:sq:Harry Potter? No. What about: w:sq:User talk:Alexis Jazz (combination of "sq" + English terms)? No. You'd have to blacklist Përdoruesi diskutim:Alexis Jazz and it would (using global preferences) blacklist my user page on any Albanian-language project. (Wikipedia, WIkiquote, etc) I'm not sure there will realistically be a use case for this. If user X doesn't want you to use Factotum on enwiki, I doubt they'll appreciate it on Wikidata. I can't think of many reasons to blacklist pages at all, less so to blacklist a page title only on a specific project. the auto-DT sub and the resolved/unresolved states. States are not happening for reasons stated. Factotum doesn't even remotely have the market share to justify this, even together with CD it would be a serious stretch. So you're bugging the wrong person. Auto-DT sub could be a module, but I'm not particularly interested in writing it. I'd suggest looking at running FTT.processElementArray[FTT.PRMOpened.pageTitleInt].parentElement.querySelectorAll('.ext-discussiontools-init-section-subscribeButton .oo-ui-icon-bellOutline')[0].click() and putting it in a beforeEditFunc of a module. Making it work across all skins and in all situations will be more work. If anyone wants Factotum to actually utilize DT features (Factotum has zero dependencies on DT and that's not going to change), they'll have to load a module. Or fork the project. Don't ask me for this again. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 13:03, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, well, I tried the beta-link way (on desktop), imported an old settings configuration of mine and it appeared to work fine. The refs were located correctly, all the icons behaved as they should... I'm gonna go with finished for this then. As for the names... I agree with your assumption in regard to user talk pages but in the mainspace things would be different, especially for artwork/biography titles which tend to be the same globally. But then again, you say that there are not much occasions that would require such a block and I can't think of any myself unless things go really bad and ArbCom actions start being taken against Factotum in specific pages so... It's good as it is. I'm gonna go and try the modules now and the interaction of Factotum in other projects and tools. I'm going to report back on that. Just so you know, that doesn't mean you HAVE to fix anything. Factotum is already stable for desktop, anons and most likely mobile (I haven't used it that much there but those few times I've used it, I don't remember getting crashes anymore). If nothing strange comes up - which I highly doubt it will happen at this point - I'll ask for your help in setting it up as a gadget in our project and giving you the right credits. Again, this is not a carrot or a treat. You can go and archive this meanwhile. — Klein Muçi (talk) 13:31, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
Section date, number of comments and contributors...I can edit my own comments without having to scroll through a sea of a discussion board...automatic notification templates, automatic signature...how does this have only 18 users? — NytharT.C07:15, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, thank you! Nythar, Qwerfjkl is right. The primary development target is desktop but it works on the mobile site too. It doesn't work on the mobile apps as the apps don't support any gadgets or scripts. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:36, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
@Klein Muçi, After the nomination process finishes, the Academy gets together to discuss the entries and selection process, then they individually review the nominated tools, and finally there is a last meeting where the Academy reconvenes and discusses the nominations to finally assign the awards in a variety of categories.— Qwerfjkltalk16:15, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
Modules and other interactions
As I said, it's been a while I've been using Factotum globally. I haven't seen any misbehavior with any of my current gadgets/scripts and I doubt I will because most of them are only active on SqWiki for me and I've been using Factotum there for months. I was trying to activate the AltRefModule and the POTDModule but I'm kinda confused. In POTDModule you say: To load the POTD from another wiki, either put window.FTTPOTDDomain in your common.js with the desired domain (e.g. "en.wikipedia.org") or set that domain in the custom background field. Can you tell me explicitly what I need to change to have the EnWiki POTD? Also, in regard to AltRefModule, I just need to copy-paste the code in my .js userpage and edit a section (with the pencil) that has references from an article to see it in action, right? I was testing Factotum in different projects I'm active and I couldn't spot any problems except for one that maybe was to be expected. Factotum completely loses it here. — Klein Muçi (talk) 02:35, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, Can you tell me explicitly what I need to change to have the EnWiki POTD? Updated source. Customized backgrounds weren't working (regression), this has been fixed. I just need to copy-paste the code in my .js userpage Actually most modules could be installed like any other script, including POTD and AltRef. except for one that maybe was to be expected. Disabled link adding on flow-board. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 10:03, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, uhm, have I done it correctly here: w:sq:Përdoruesi:Klein Muçi/common.js? :/ I wish I wouldn't need to copy-paste the whole code there but I don't believe that to be possible to do if I want EnWiki's POTD, no? Also, can you check the icons' sizes again? It looks like they are back to having different sizes. I can post a screenshot if you want. — Klein Muçi (talk) 13:30, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, no, that's wrong. You can just use window.FTTPOTDDomain = 'en.wikipedia.org';mw.loader.load( '<i>en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Alexis Jazz/Factotum/POTDModule.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript' ); (or enter "en.wikipedia.org" in the custom background field in your settings). Also, can you check the icons' sizes again? Which ones? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 14:31, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
This is my current configuration. The last three icons on the right look bigger, no? Maybe even the undo/redo arrows. Not sure.
I tried entering it in my settings in SqWiki. It didn't work. :/ Is that normal? Then I tried the way you specified, it worked. I tried entering this: mw.loader.load( 'en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Alexis Jazz/Factotum/POTDModule.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript' ); window.FTTPOTDDomain = 'en.wikipedia.org'; for esthetic reasons but I'm not sure if it works or no. Then I tried entering this: mw.loader.load( '//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Alexis Jazz/Factotum/POTDModule.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript' ); window.FTTPOTDDomain = 'commons.wikimedia.org/'; but it didn't work. Is that normal as well? - Klein Muçi (talk) 17:28, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
Actually most modules could be installed like any other script, including POTD and AltRef. I just tried installing the AltRef one in that way but it looks like nothing is happening. Maybe I've misunderstood its function? I went on an article, chose a section and clicked the pencil to edit it. I was expecting to find a dropdown menu of references that were part of that section. There was nothing different from when not having that script installed though. — Klein Muçi (talk) 17:38, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
After solving the PEBKAC error, this is it in action. It has some problems in overlays (chevron + icons below) but maybe that is to be expected?
I've read that page many times during the latest 5 years in which I've been a bit active in Mediawiki developing. Are you suggesting you're unable to understand my questions about POTD? I can rewrite them in a more clear way. Klein Muçi (talk) 18:46, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
I made some more testing in regard to POTD. The order in which you put window.FTTPOTDDomain = 'en.wikipedia.org'; doesn't matter. Also it works for Commons as well but I should have waited a bit longer. At least it worked when I put it at Meta. Nothing works if you put it in the custom background field in the settings though. I tried multiple times with multiple domains (EnWiki, FrWiki, EsWiki, Commons) and it didn't work. When you click POTD the image gets rendered sometimes in the left, sometimes in the right, depending on the domain, not on the middle. Maybe that's intended... — Klein Muçi (talk) 21:59, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, It has some problems in overlays (chevron + icons below) but maybe that is to be expected? CSS Z-index issue, I should be able to adjust that. Are you suggesting you're unable to understand my questions about POTD? I was unable to understand the issues with the AltRef module: no link, what action you tried to perform, etc. Nothing works if you put it in the custom background field in the settings though window.FTTPOTDDomain, if set, overrides the custom background domain setting. The domain to set would be "fr.wikipedia.org", not "FrWiki". Maybe that's intended... Not particularly, but it just renders {{POTD}}. There's no easy way to override this without a bunch of project-specific rules which will break when a template changes. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 05:09, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I'm sorry but I've tried many domains as I said in the format that you specify but it never works. The icons change appearance like they would if the background was changed but the background is always white. :/ — Klein Muçi (talk) 10:57, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, right, I think it might have worked after the cached expired, which would take a day. POTD domain changes should get detected now. The Z-index issue should be resolved as well. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 18:20, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, they still behave in the same way for me. :/ The POTD I mean. As for AltRef... I can't test it now because every time I click the pencil in an icon, an empty form comes up instead of a form containing the section that you want to edit. Has there been a regression maybe? — Klein Muçi (talk) 01:16, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
Forms are no longer empty. This is what I get now. I don't know if it is any different.
That's in SqWiki where I've set up the POTD background through my common.js page. In EnWiki I've tried using the preference way but it still doesn't work. Only the icons change, there is no image. - Klein Muçi (talk) 06:32, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
I'm guessing it's not wrong per se as Factotum's native reference dropdown menu works the same in terms of overlaying with the other icons below it. Just tried it. It is hard (impossible?) to click/select the listed items in it with a mouse because of that. You can only use a keyboard's up/down arrows + Enter. The only thing extra in here is the button "Go" that goes outside of the overall outline. Klein Muçi (talk) 06:40, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, POTD continues in the same way unfortunately. AltRef on the other hand is almost completely fixed. The only problem is that when the selected reference is long, it still pushes the button outside the overall outline. Maybe they should be truncated and only show full when hovered? — Klein Muçi (talk) 02:53, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, try the button getting pushed outside again. OOUI is problematic with this, it normally restricts the dropdown to 50em with no option to go wider AFAIK, and due to the "go" button I can't specify units as a percentage either. (which is why the overlap with the chevron of the dropdown is apparently unavoidable) Use kitty for POTD, I have no idea what you configured. Wait a sec. You're not loading the POTD module on enwiki. How did you expect it to work? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 06:35, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
┌───────────────────────────┘ Alexis Jazz, AltRef is now fixed. Long references are always truncated, there is no full version of them showing on hover and the overlap with the chevron always happens in these cases but I suppose all this is "intended" so... You're not loading the POTD module on enwiki. How did you expect it to work? Ooh! So even the insertion of the domain in the settings is still part of the module? I've misunderstood you then. I thought this was a native function. My bad. I tried it now a couple of times and sometimes there is some caching but in general it works. There is a "problem" though, which is what caused my misunderstanding: No matter what you put in the background form in the settings, the icons change form. This made me believe something was happening but the image was just failing to load and I kept waiting for it to eventually load. Even if I put gibberish there, the icons will still change form. Can something be done about this case? Either make them only change when something is really working or create a sort of notification that tells you that the value you entered makes no sense. This functionality will have to work for both cases I believe (native + POTD module). Even like it currently is isn't that bad though. Lastly, out of curiosity, these 2 modules now currently work fine and they don't bite or change the native functions in any way, only add to them. Why not have them as native functions? I'm just asking to understand how you feel about these cases in general when modules can become maturated enough to be introduced in the main code. After your next answer, whatever it may be, I'll start setting it up as a gadget in my homewiki and details like these are interesting to know in regard to the updates I'll need to do to it and their frequency. — Klein Muçi (talk) 12:25, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, AltRef is now fixed. Long references are always truncated, there is no full version of them showing on hover and the overlap with the chevron always happens in these cases but I suppose all this is "intended" so... Not really intended but hard to fix. I added some ugly imperfect hack for the chevron.. Ooh! So even the insertion of the domain in the settings is still part of the module? I've misunderstood you then. The POTD module can read the value either from window.FTTPOTDDomain or FTT.settings.customBackground (and now it falls back to the current domain), but the actual code to load a POTD is only in the module. Even if I put gibberish there, the icons will still change form. Can something be done about this case? Either make them only change when something is really working or create a sort of notification that tells you that the value you entered makes no sense. If you just entered a single letter, that could technically be valid. /static/images/project-logos/enwiki.png and ../..//static/images/project-logos/enwiki.png and /favicon.ico are valid. Whether your browser managed to obtain an image from the entered URL, I don't know. I added a check when entering the URL, but this still reports a failure when you enter "en.wikipedia.org". That could be suppressed/intercepted by the POTD module (could even turn FTT.sEl.customBackground into a dropdown or something) but, sigh, let someone else do it. Lastly, out of curiosity, these 2 modules now currently work fine and they don't bite or change the native functions in any way, only add to them. Why not have them as native functions? I'm just asking to understand how you feel about these cases in general when modules can become maturated enough to be introduced in the main code. That can happen sometimes. Reasons to make something as a module: 1. I don't wanna support it 2. It's only interesting for a niche 3. It only works on select projects/Wikimedia only 4. I know it's buggy or behaves poorly due to outside influences and.. see 1 5. It's just a proof of concept, so.. see 1 6. You're not me and want to add to Factotum without forking it In case of POTD, that's very much Wikimedia-only which is enough of a reason by itself not to put it in the main code. It also depends on a local template that I didn't create which is unpredictable. And while many look good, some POTD images just aren't very suitable for a background. It's all very much YMMV. For AltRef, well maybe. But it doesn't replace the regular reflist when editing a full page and while it looks similar it works differently under the hood and will behave a bit different in some cases. Which could be confusing. And I'd rather see Factotum get a bit smaller instead of bigger. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 16:14, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, thank you for the explanations! I added some ugly imperfect hack for the chevron.. I tried some long references but I couldn't see any change. I'm not sure what I should be looking for. Anyway I'm going on with another post about the gadget conversion now. — Klein Muçi (talk) 12:21, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
CX Zoom, there's no reason Factotum would read the ToC title for this. My best guess is that there's some script/gadget that adds the ToC index number to the actual headers? But I can't reproduce this, and I tried loading their common.js+global.js. Possibly a gadget, locally loaded script or a preference within one of the loaded scripts I don't know about. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 14:47, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
Workaround made, implemented the functionality of auto-number headings. Bonus features: the auto-numbering is a section link and can copy that link to your clipboard and/or scroll to the table of contents when clicked. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 18:23, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
You messed up! (JS error: TypeError: Cannot read properties of undefined (reading 'replace'))
Qwerfjkl, there was supposed to be a line of the stack trace included. As it's missing for some reason, I have no idea where to look. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 20:30, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, I disabled general JS error triggers by default (which I had just added) as various gadgets/scripts might cause this to get trigged a bit too often. You can re-enable it by putting window.FTTjskitty = 1; in your common/global.js. That does actually help to find bugs, but could be inconvenient sometimes. I may have resolved the underlying problem (the linked page has one section which is missing a section edit link), but as the error that I got was a bit different I can't be fully sure it's the same issue. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 18:32, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
Bug
Once I select the main input box for text (the body), I can't deselect it. Attempting to focus/click on any other element on the page fails, and refocuses on the input box. — Qwerfjkltalk21:34, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
This is what I meant in my 3rd point above. While trying to reply to this comment, I also stumbled upon this error:
Javascript Error
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Alexis_Jazz/Factotum.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript at line 13368: Uncaught TypeError: Cannot read properties of undefined (reading 'style')
Qwerfjkl, it seems different browsers act differently in this case. It was caused by the "Rewrite external URLs and apply regular expressions when the main text input loses focus" setting (enabled by default) which invoked FTT.selectRange which, at least on Chrome, will focus the text input when it's blurred. No escape. I've removed the FTT.selectRange from that function, I probably added it for a reason but nothing seems to have broken yet as a result. @Klein Muçi, odd. Not sure why that would happen but it's not important so I just wrapped it in a try{}. (it was just hiding the "scroll to previous section" button for the first section) — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 16:58, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
So I read your instructions for gadget-conversion and they are rather exhaustive so I do not expect to have a lot of problems with the process itself. However, before I continue, I have some questions/requests:
Wouldn't it be better if you inserted a notice of any kind at the top of the script(s) that show their authorship? Something like: // Author: Alexis_Jazz? Or maybe a note in the instructions about adding such a notice when importing as a gadget?
Can you tell me which strings would I need to localize after the importation was complete? Would it be possible to locate them all in a place in the script for easier localization? Or maybe mark those certain strings with comments? Maybe a note should be added at the instructions about this detail as well?
Any suggestion what would be a good description for Factotum other than "an alternative editor"? That doesn't look like it makes too much justice to its feature-rich content. Just trying to brainstorm.
I just noticed that there isn't a way to escape ninja mode with the keyboard. Can you integrate a shortcut for that before the conversion happens so I don't need to update again? (Or maybe there is one and I don't know it yet?)
Klein Muçi, 1. It's in FTT.fyi somewhere near the top. I did it like that because that survives minification. This isn't quite as relevant anymore as modules rendered User:Alexis Jazz/AJSJSMangler no longer an option. Maybe I'll move the notice to the usual place when I remove pako. 2. User:Alexis Jazz/Factotum/Mumbo jumbo#Translations 3. I've been pondering the same thing. 4. done, ctrl+enter. Btw, you may want to consider removing the part from "//pako start" to "//pako end". I'll remove pako soon anyway. It only remains for a few days so existing objects from users can still be read, but this wouldn't be an issue on sqwiki. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 17:31, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, thank you! It is done. I just copy-pasted. I have to do the translations now. I suppose I have to leave the NL part there as it is, no? As for the other alterations, I'm waiting for you to update them first and I'll copy accordingly. Please tell me when you do so. — Klein Muçi (talk) 11:51, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
'dateLinksIconSection':'Add link/permalink generator icon for sections', 'dateLinksIconSectExtra':'Also provide non-permalink', Where do these 2 options differ from each other? What do they mean exactly? I'm not sure how to translate them. — Klein Muçi (talk) 12:10, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, just put your translation up somewhere (like in userspace) and I'll check it and add it to Factotum-extra.js. Don't forget to make a note of the license of your translation and how you want to be attributed. Where do these 2 options differ from each other? The second is an indented option of the first. If you enable it the section link form has two text fields and five buttons total, otherwise there's only one text field and three buttons total. Permalink: User talk:Alexis Jazz/Factotum (revision 1118331830) Non-permalink: User talk:Alexis Jazz/Factotum#Turning Factotum into a gadget The latter is only available if "Also provide non-permalink" is enabled. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 13:56, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, thank you for the context! I'm translating it on the .extra page on SqWiki. When I finish it, I'll tell you to copy it here as well I suppose. (Currently I've done only ~40 out of ~400 so unfortunately it will take a while.) While working with it, I was wondering something... Would it be possible that for pages that have numbered lines such as JS pages or modules we could have an option that allows us to edit specific lines similar to how we edit specific comments without opening the whole section? Actually, I've asked about this function before but I was told it was rather risky or impossible because one might try to save the line with errors and the editor wouldn't be smart enough to catch them if you're only opening the page partially for edit. I also asked for a way to at least open the whole page but have the line I wanted to edit highlighted but it was said that currently that was impossible without making changes to the Scribunto extension. — Klein Muçi (talk) 04:09, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
dateLinksLocalTime has the word customize in square brackets. Should that word be translated? Also the strings below it in regard to dates have examples beside them. Should the examples be translated? Will they be in Albanian for us? I've always been a bit confused by dates in signatures. — Klein Muçi (talk) 04:22, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, dateLinksLocalTime has the word customize in square brackets. Should that word be translated? Yes. It converts into a link that (un)hides additional options, the square brackets get replaced with link HTML when the settings are opened. For the most part, stuff that shouldn't be translated is written in ALL CAPS. But I'll check your translation anyway so don't worry about it. Currently I've done only ~40 out of ~400 so unfortunately it will take a while. Now you may understand why I tended to be hesitant to add entries for all those link titles you craved. I was told it was rather risky or impossible Sounds about right. I also asked for a way to at least open the whole page but have the line I wanted to edit highlighted but it was said that currently that was impossible without making changes to the Scribunto extension. See, I'm not the only one fighting with CodeEditor. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:29, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
~250 from ~400 (mobile options had a lot of duplications) I'm surprised though as no matter how much I translate, the new translations never get shown in SqWiki. Is it a caching problem? — Klein Muçi (talk) 13:23, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
~300 from ~400 If things go well, I plan to finish these 2 days in which time I'm hoping to take another look at it in action and see what I can further fine-tune before letting you copy-paste the strings. I'm kinda annoyed by the fact that the translated text doesn't show up when using it though. I hope I'll be able to fix that detail up until that point. — Klein Muçi (talk) 01:18, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
~350 from ~400 There's a typo at line 330. Also I just noticed that modules have stopped working (...correctly) every since I removed the Factotum script and started using the gadget. For example, I get the POTD icon below my icons but I don't get a background at all. — Klein Muçi (talk) 13:04, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
┌───────────────────────────┘ Klein Muçi, I see no typos at those line numbers. Maybe I'm blind. Perhaps if you indicated what the typo is.. Also I just noticed that modules have stopped working Përdoruesi:Klein Muçi/common.js (Diff 2490085) And I'm guessing you didn't enter a valid domain in the custom background setting field either, so the POTD module defaults to the current wiki and sqwiki has no POTD. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 23:35, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I went to line ~400 but apparently it goes up until ~450. I have 50 more strings to go apparently. You were right about the modules, sorry. As for typos, I've messed up my line numbers or maybe we are not working with the same -extra.js version. One of them is slightly, apparently on line 237. The other unfortunately I can't remember now but given that they're so few of them, if you start editing the page, most likely you'll notice it underlined in red. — Klein Muçi (talk) 13:10, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
And done. They don't show up anywhere though. I want to see them somewhere in action because for many of them I didn't remember the context and I might need to do further fine tuning. What do I do to achieve that? Also some questions:
What does focus input mean? What does that shortcut do?
How does Memoria actually work? I've failed a couple of times to make it work. Now that it is a gadget, I should know that in case someone from SqWiki asks me for help. (Is Memoria really related to Factotum? In my eyes it looks like it can stand alone, much like your other script Kill it with fire. Maybe it is connected but I just don't understand what it does/how to use it properly.)
In the main code, out of complete personal curiosity, what are jokers/purple jokers?
Also, if nothing is entered as a custom background on the settings can the POTD button disappear? Or maybe tell you to choose a background first? Clicking it does nothing if you haven't set up any backgrounds and it's a bit confusing. — Klein Muçi (talk) 13:57, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, I don't know where you get your line numbers, none of them make sense to me. There is no "slightly" on line 237 or anywhere nearby. Line 237 is MFAdjcustomBackground. I see nothing wrong underlined (if I enable the spell checker) either. I'm probably blind. To load the translation, copy User:Alexis Jazz/Factotum-extra.js to sqwiki (I've added the sq translation in the right place) and in Gadget-Factotum.js you need to at least add ,'sq' to the line that says if ( ['nl','de'].indexOf(FTT.userLang) != -1 ) {, after ,'de'. This is also included in User:Alexis Jazz/Factotum.js but beware that (mostly thanks to Qwerfjkl below) some serious changes were made that could introduce some new bugs. Reference highlight, custom inserts and markup should be tested in all editors (source, VisualLight and 2010wikitext in source/codemirror/codeeditor mode) which of course I did but I could have missed things. On the flip side, these changes grant most of your CodeMirror wishes. Focus input: in the table you mean? You press alt+i and the main text input gets focus. Memoria: has been asked before and is no doubt commented on in the code somewhere. Memoria should stand alone, but it relies on echo emulation which only Factotum can provide currently. (and loading the echo emulation twice would case infinite problems, so simply copying it isn't a good idea either) If phab:T306211 gets resolved Memoria will be split from Factotum. This is also why the translations for Memoria aren't in the translations file. Search User:Alexis Jazz/Factotum.js for FTT.msgsObj.mul.reminder to find a handful of entries that need translation for that. As Memoria is a module, it should be possible to split it right away. Memoria needs to be available while Factotum loads though, but I guess I could add a check to allow it to load after Factotum has already loaded. Jokers: there's a code comment about that: "if some joker decides to post an element with the "FTTPurpleBG" class (which otherwise indicates an ongoing or stuck process), FTT won't break as we subtract those". I probably shouldn't rely on a class for this at all, but oh well.. Also, if nothing is entered as a custom background on the settings can the POTD button disappear? It defaults to the current wiki and used to throw a JS error if the selected wiki has no POTD. Now it's an mw.notify that tells you the wiki has no POTD. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:09, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz: I don't know where you get your line numbers, none of them make sense to me. At this point, I don't know either. It's the third time I get a different number for it. I'm confused... Just search for slightly (without the L - AWB typo fixer won't let me write it as I should here) in the Factotum-extra code. It's still there. you need to at least add 'sq' Ah! I had missed that mechanism. Thank you! On the flip side, these changes grant most of your CodeMirror wishes. Oh happy day (oh happy day)... ♫♪♩♫♪ some serious changes were made that could introduce some new bugs. Reference highlight, custom inserts and markup should be tested in all editors I will report back if I notice anything unusual. You press alt+i and the main text input gets focus. What is the main text input? What does the expression mean? Does it mean the text form when we're using Factotum to input some text somewhere? If I press "Alt" that gets focused immediately, without needing to combine it with I. — Klein Muçi (talk) 19:34, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
I updated both js pages but the translation isn't showing yet. Maybe it will show up soon but out of curiosity was searching for if ( ['nl','de'].indexOf(FTT.userLang) != -1 ) { but I don't see that line at all. Or even parts of it. Maybe you've rewritten it somehow? — Klein Muçi (talk) 19:50, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, What is the main text input? The white rectangle in File:Factotum, screenshot.png with "[[User:John Doe|]]," in it. I updated both js pages but the translation isn't showing yet. Gadget might take a moment to refresh due to cache. Also, your interface language must be sq. (https://sq.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Potter?uselang=sq) I don't see that line at all. I see you already updated Gadget-Factotum.js. That info is now in FTT.translations near the top and already includes sq. Btw, in the settings the setting for thanks isn't translated, this is because https://translatewiki.net/wiki/MediaWiki:Thanks-desc/sq has no translation in Albanian. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 20:20, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, yes, I get the white rectangle that you mention without needing to press I. Just Alt is enough. (The same function as the magic floating link, right?) The translation showed now. I did some fixes and corrected some mistakes. Feel free to update your version here accordingly. By the way, is this the correct way to go about this? It seems a bit clunky... I mean, all languages loading all languages while also being able to edit only their version... Global updates will be a nightmare if more languages get introduced. As for the thanks label... Yeah, I was surprised by that. I just put one translation now but I saw that you hadn't put one for the Dutch version either. Am I to understand that there shouldn't be a label at all there and instead we should be using the TranslateWiki version (which for the moment doesn't exist)? Speaking of that, there are some parts which are still in English or have no label on hover. The mention button has no label at all for example while the settings for the watchlist are in English. Is this a TranslateWiki problem again? Or are there some other parts I need to translate outside of the extra subpage. (Maybe in the main Factotum one?) Also I noticed something that doesn't make sense in Albanian: When using the toggle for the live preview (to put it side by side or above text) you get a message which duplicates the text given for the toggles names/function, if I'm not wrong. But that should be a completely different message in Albanian. — Klein Muçi (talk) 21:20, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
In regard to newly introduced bugs... Not sure if these will be helpful for you but here goes nothing...:
Undo/Redo function doesn't work with syntax highlighter on. Can't remember if it worked before;
I've started getting the "the page has been changed" popup way more often lately;
There are many random jumps in the page which happen when scrolling out of the text input or when switching tabs;
Klein Muçi, By the way, is this the correct way to go about this? It seems a bit clunky... I mean, all languages loading all languages while also being able to edit only their version... For a script/gadget, it tends to be easier to have everything in as few files as possible so you don't have to edit a dozen pages for every update. Am I to understand that there shouldn't be a label at all there and instead we should be using the TranslateWiki version (which for the moment doesn't exist)? Correct, just add the translation on translatewiki and it'll get here sooner or later. Same for [63], [64], [65] and [66]. But that should be a completely different message in Albanian. What did you expect and what did you get? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 01:53, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
I get the messages for liveoff and liveon. I should get completely different messages (or not at all if you ask me - do we really need a message for that?) — Klein Muçi (talk) 02:31, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
Why does markupAbove (and the entry below it) have no space between the translatable string and the next command? I understand that the next string has the space ingrained in it but is there any reason for that behavior? — Klein Muçi (talk) 17:00, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, I should get completely different messages Like what? do we really need a message for that? Uh, yeah. Tooltips are not accessible. How else will the user know what happened? For the side-by-side toggle the effect is obvious, for the preview button it's somewhat obvious. (unless live preview is already enabled, but in that case it won't matter too much) For live preview, it's a green border that doesn't tell the user what just happened. is there any reason for that behavior? Not really, I'll change it. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 17:45, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, Klein Muçi, there were 400-something entries to be translated and soon it'll be 400-something-and-two. Oh well. Undo/redo should do something now, there's not enough information/I don't know about the "the page has been changed" popups and random jumps. The random jumps were maybe caused by the same focus issue that was reported below. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 21:07, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, I only get "Activated live preview" (even when I deactivate it). Undo/Redo works but the undo/redo loop can be broken if you happen to press undo twice (most likely it works the same for redo). Scenario to illustrate it:
You write a word. You press undo. It gets undone. You press redo. It gets redone. It goes on.
You write a word. You press undo. It gets undone. You press undo again. Nothing happens because there's nothing to undo. (The word being written was the first ever action.) You press redo. Nothing happens. The cycle has been broken.
Normally you expect "pseudo-actions" - such as when pressing undo/redo when there's nothing to undo/redo - not to create any lasting changes. And just to be a bit more correct: There are around 300 strings to be translated, not 400. I took great liberty when approximating them just because it helped in keeping track with line numbers. — Klein Muçi (talk) 23:31, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
I found 2 more bugs:
When you do actions with syntax highlighting on that make use of various forms such as user name mentions or link insertions the said insertions always get put at the literal beginning of the text form, not where the cursor is located.
Klein Muçi, you found what the selectRange was for.. So now there's a choice to be made: either disable URL rewriting-on-blur (not very nice), make it impossible to escape focus (like it was, really not nice) or live with insertions getting entered into the wrong place. (slightly less not nice) I guess rewrite-on-blur will have to go for CodeMirror/CodeEditor. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 00:02, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
Alexis Jazz, and one more possible bug: When you start editing comments, as soon as you click the pencil, the undo arrow is already there waiting for you even though nothing has happened for you to undo. Clicking it removes the comment completely. I updated the SqWiki gadget pages and did the new translations. You might want to update accordingly. — Klein Muçi (talk) 00:06, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
Klein Muçi, that triggers the link internalizing whenever the main input loses focus. (whenever you click outside of it) Apparently this is causing problems now so I disabled it by default and marked it as a dangerous feature. I think I'm going to log out for a week tomorrow. I'm not getting anything done like this. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 00:30, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
There have been some very small changes regarding capitalization in the Sq version of Factotum which you might want to copy. Also, a very basic question: I can't seem to find the native way to create a new section in a talk page. I vaguely remember having a button that would allow you to create a new section but I only see the Factotum's pencil now. Have I disabled that somehow in Factotum's options? And speaking of that, maybe you want to make the settings' filter work even with the English terms beside whatever the native language is being used? Same as English namespaces work globally no matter what the native language of the project is. Just a random thought I had while trying to locate the option I mention above. — Klein Muçi (talk) 14:12, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
┌───────────────────────────┘ Qwerfjkl, all the options you mention are in regard to Factotum's infrastructure to insert new section. I mean the native way, the link that you get from the toolbar at the top if you don't have Factotum enabled. That should be a DiscussionTools feature, right? And there should be an option in Factotum that allows you to have that active (together with Factotum's ways) which I should have disabled by accident. — Klein Muçi (talk) 16:17, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, it does. It also did when I completely disabled Factotum temporarily so it is related to it. But I don't remember how I actually have deactivated it. :P — Klein Muçi (talk) 16:45, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, yay! You solved it! Apparently it's one of the advanced settings (in the middle of it). I couldn't literally search for "hide" because I have it in Albanian now and English terms don't work (which is what I talk about a bit above) but I searched for the homologue word in Albanian and I was lucky for them to match. Thank you! — Klein Muçi (talk) 17:22, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz, I noticed now that using @ or [[/{{ doesn't work as a "shortcut" when CM is on. Don't know if that is intended or not and if it ever worked, even if for a short time, but I thought I'd say. Edit: Quote drag and dropping doesn't work either. — Klein Muçi (talk) 12:01, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
Also, unrelated question (just so I don't start a new section for this): When internalizing URLs, is there a kind of well-crystallized practice to keep the project's prefix before the URL? For example: xx:Example title I've always written such URLs as follows: xx:Example title|Example title I've usually omitted the prefixes even when they're only namespace prefixes, renaming the URL manually to use only the title. Given that the whole process is automatic with Factotum, maybe the omission can be automatized as well? Or maybe it can be a preference option? — Klein Muçi (talk) 12:23, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
selectRange() bug?
I think the focusing selectRange() bug still occurs when editing references. Also, I should probably create a new screenshot sometime. I remember you saying the last one was too wide - how wide would you like it? — Qwerfjkltalk21:56, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
{"int":97,"type":"comment","subtype":"legacy","id":"Kudpung:04:08, 8 November 2022 (UTC):97","pageTitleInt":86,"origReplyTo":"Kudpung","origTimestamp":"04:08, 8 November 2022 (UTC)","origTimestampTextNode":"04:08, 8 November 2022 (UTC)","seq":0,"origReplyToUnderscore":"Kudpung","pageTitle":"Help talk:Unreviewed new page","sectionTitle":"Some cleanup","sectionseq":0}
Element types processed: H1, P, SPAN, INPUT, SMALL, DD, I
Additional information: Hello Alexis! Factotum has been working well—this is the first time in a while I have been here! When the automatic text replacement triggers, my cursor is automatically moved to the end of the text box. I have been able to reproduce this whenever I have Factotum open. Would you be able to have the cursor remain at its current location instead? Thank you so much!
Done and thanks for reporting the issue! — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 20:28, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
Self-trout. Qwerfjkltalk 11:27, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
Done. ― Qwerfjkltalk 20:45, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
Great! Thanks.
, 
, 
— Guarapiranga ☎ 12:20, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
I haven't advertised it too much because I'm still fixing bugs. I'm also still working on a handful of additional features. And with modules Christmas never has to end. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 23:23, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
Should be fixed now. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 02:17, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
Otherwise correct. Doubleclick opens an edit form when there is an edit marker, otherwise a reply form. By design. How else would you expect it to work?
Not done, standard MediaWiki behavior, Bawl only toggles the hide/show link.
) I get the normal editor, and then below it I get the Bawl editor. Either editor will publish correctly, but only the normal one gets the preloaded text when you click the big REFUND button. However, the settings button for Bawl does not do anything (it is still clickable, but it does not open anything. To generate a bug report with my settings, I went to reply to a random comment). I am able to reproduce this at REFUND, on this page when clicking any of the three "bug report/feature request/other issue" buttons above, and in in my sandbox, all of which have preloaded text. However, I (correctly) only get Bawl when I click "new topic" on my user talk page (which does not have preloaded text).
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I had to unhide .mw-editsection manually, I assume one of the scripts you load hides it. Probably the one that adds the .section-links with the yellow pencil icon and section jump buttons, don't know which one that is though.
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Insert link to add a new section (at the end of the page). 3rd and 4th options down under Load. — Qwerfjkltalk 14:32, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
){kind=link}
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