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A Native American issue you might be interested in

See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America. Dougweller (talk) 10:33, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

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Request for comment

Hello there, a proposal regarding pre-adminship review has been raised at Village pump by Anna Frodesiak. Your comments here is very much appreciated. Many thanks. Jim Carter through MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:46, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

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July 2014

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Happy First Edit Day

Happy First Edit Day, CorbieVreccan, from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day! ~ Anastasia (talk) 21:45, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
Why thank you! - CorbieV☊ 16:58, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

August 2014

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Anu (Irish Goddess)
added a link pointing to Danu
Paps of Anu
added a link pointing to Danu

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Reversion of the Danu page in reference to Pan.

Dear Corbie,

I understand full well that Pan and Danu are from different cultures. The person I spoke to on this matter is a scholar of Celtic culture, and a local authority on the subject, I trust her judgement. Her explanation was that Pan was demonized in the Christian context and integrated into the figure of Satan. Their are many many parallels between cultures (confer Lévi-Strauss or Manly Palmer Hall). In Voltaire's Dictionarre Philosophique it is said that the Celts effectively hijacked the Graeco-Roman culture, although this is very debatable indeed. I feel your effacement (reversion = effacement) is unwarranted.

Yours amicably,

Max. (Anglyn) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anglyn (talk • contribs) 17:32, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

Please take discussions about article content to the talk pages of the articles in question. Your friend sounds like they are looking for cross-cultural comparisons in World Mythology as a whole, which is fine, but it doesn't fit in the article as you added it. Unsourced opinion is not WP:V or WP:RS, therefore it cannot be included in an encyclopedic article. - CorbieV☊ 19:55, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

Cherokee

You might want to see my talk page, we have an unhappy editor. And my reverts at Cherokee. Dougweller (talk) 21:02, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

Correction to Misty Upham article

Thanks for dealing with the error. JDE 188.164.224.203 (talk) 22:42, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

October 2014

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  • >Jennie Marie Luna. ''Danza Azteca: Indigenous Identity, Spirituality, Activism and Performance]''. San Jose State University, Department of Mexican American Studies. 2011</ref> The followers,

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Halloween cheer!

Happy Halloween!

'Hello CorbieVreccan:
Thanks for all of your contributions to improve Wikipedia, and have a happy and enjoyable Halloween!
    – Thanks for all your help to Wikipedia! -Fimatic (talk | contribs) 22:27, 29 October 2014 (UTC)



Send Halloween cheer by adding {{subst:Happy Halloween}} to user talk pages with a friendly message.

Who Killed Johnny and threatened mentioning 'COI' etc

Hi, honestly much more irritaded and feeling seriously personal attacked by those imho assumptions and missinterpretion of my previous contributions at Talk:Who Killed Johnny on 21:50, 19 November 2014, therefore contacted Wikipedia:Help desk on 03:13, 20 November 2014 to mediate. Regards, Roland zh (talk) 03:19, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Rainbow Warrior

If you haven't already seen it, look at a post today at User talk:I dream of horses. Dougweller (talk) 08:20, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

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Hag

The licensing of the image is 100% fine. Also, even if it wasn't, it'd just get deleted on commons and would also be removed from wikipedia by that bot.

The purpose of the image is to add some life in the article. Also, what was wrong with the text changes? I made the lead longer and created a more specific heading Tetra quark (talk) 00:01, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Yes, the licensing from flickr has been checked. I'm still not sure I like it for that article. The changes you made just duplicated the first sentence from the first section; it was redundant. Let's discuss changes to the article on the article talk page, not individual's pages. Thanks. - CorbieV☊ 23:34, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Tendentious editing on Elizabeth Warren's Native American scandal

We have a big problem on this page regarding NPOV coverage of the Native American scandal. Three indisputable (and RS-documented) facts related to that scandal keep being deleted without explanation. 1) The fact that Warren listed herself as a "minority" in the AALS law directories, rather than as a Native American (the form did not specify which race one was, only whether one was a minority or non-minority). 2) The AALS law directories were used by law schools for the specific purpose of recruiting minority professors 3) That Warren stopped identifying as a racial minority in the directories immediately after she earned tenure at Harvard Law School.

These facts are all exceedingly well sourced. (For example, see this Washington Post investigation) But they keep being removed. Worse, those who remove the RS content refuse to provide a specific reason for their changes, despite my repeated request for specifics. They only offer vague concerns about "NPOV" and "BLP." (See the talk page, as well as the edit summaries of those who are reverting my changes.) They are not just on the wrong side of a policy dispute; they are engaged in tendentious editing, which is a violation of policy. For this reason, I am bringing the issue to your attention. Steeletrap (talk) 04:19, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Here is the current discussion of the Native American issue from the Warren page:

: "In April 2012, the Boston Herald drew attention to Warren's law directory entries from 1986 to 1995, in which she had self-identified as having Native American ancestry.[49][50] According to Warren and her brothers, they grew up "listening to our mother and grandmother and other relatives talk about our family’s Cherokee and Delaware heritage".[51][52][53][54] Harvard Law School had added her to a list of minority professors in response to criticisms about a lack of faculty diversity, but Warren said that she was unaware that Harvard had done so until she read about it in a newspaper.[55][56][57] While the New England Historical Genealogical Society has no documentary proof that either confirms or denies that Warren has Cherokee ancestors,[52][58] the Oklahoma Historical Society said that finding a definitive answer about Native American heritage can be difficult because of intermarriage and deliberate avoidance of registration.[59] This issue became the focus of election coverage in the media for several weeks, during which time members of the Cherokee Nation protested her claims and questioned how it influenced her employers while her opponents demanded more scrutiny.[49] Colleagues and supervisors at the schools where she had worked have publicly stated that she did not receive preferential treatment.[52][56][57]"

This paragraph is biased. It omits the fact that one was only able to list oneself as white or minority in the directories. And it fails to note the significance of the directories/what they were used for (Per the WaPo source, identifying and recruiting minority professors). Finally, the paragraph neglects to mention that Warren's political opponents accused her of credentials fraud.
The paragraph is also poorly written and unclear. Because the paragraph neglects to report the (inconclusive but substantial and compelling) evidence that Warren sought to benefit from false claims of Native American heritage, it fails to convey to the reader what the controversy was about. Steeletrap (talk) 04:29, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
Yes, it's a mess. Wikipedia process is failing on that article. While including the information about sovereignty issues and ethnic fraud makes that section disproportionately large for the article, the answer is not to censor the section, but rather flesh out other sections more. For such a high-profile person, the article could use a bit of expansion, anyway. Unfortunately, those who care about accurate coverage of this ongoing issue are in a marked minority - both on and off-Wiki. There is a concerted effort to disappear this. The shorter version of the section is in no way a consensus version; it's simply what was there after tendentious, slo-mo edit-warring by those who want this whitewashed. Even WP Countering Systemic Bias has been no help, as most simply don't understand the issue. Others who do understand are even more determined to censor it. - CorbieV☊ 23:55, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Murder of Sheree Beasley

Hi. Could you give Murder of Sheree Beasley some tender love and care? Paul Austin (talk) 23:05, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Please apologize

I have never been told that I wrote anything offensive. What I posted reflects scholarship of the highest order. You deleted in en bloc. Please apologize for blaming me for spamming. --Ekplatonos (talk) 22:08, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Please make sure that the books and articles you add to articles are appropriate. For instance, we don't need a list of everything Freud and Jung wrote about consciousness posted as "bibliographies" on Indigenous articles. If a work is truly relevant and useful for sourcing the article content, incorporate the reference, with specific page numbers, as an inline cite. Thanks. - CorbieV☊☼ 22:27, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Phony unblock request

For some reason the page User:CorbieVreccan/Admin Toolbox is listed at Category:Requests for unblock. At the moment, I can't see why. Perhaps you can have a look into it. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 19:31, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

How bizarre. I have no idea how or why that happened. I'll go kick the wheels and see if anything falls off. - CorbieV☊☼ 20:18, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Indigenous migration to Americas

You said to reference my source, I don't know how, but I can give you the link to the article I found. Let me know if it's not good enough to be a Wikipedia reference. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/11/131120-science-native-american-people-migration-siberia-genetics/# — Preceding unsigned comment added by Syberiyxx (talk • contribs) 02:39, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Oming at Rainbow Gatherings

CorbieVreccan, hello, normally I am not in the habit of reverting an administrator. But I have been to many Rainbow Gatherings, albeit none since 1999. I have met Yogi's from India there, & a number of devout Hindus & a lot of serious yoga practitioners. Your characterization of hippie misappropriation paints an overly-broad stroke & is simply not encyclopedic without a citation. If you add language that states "There are those who allege the practice of chanting om before a meal is an example of Rainbow gatherer's misappropriation of a Hindu practice" & add a citation to a reliable source, well that's another matter entirely & would be encyclopedic. Peaceray (talk) 21:05, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Do not edit war

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Cher. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Please be particularly aware that Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states:

  1. Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made.
  2. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. Worldbruce (talk) 00:07, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

Not an edit war. The sources the IPs and fans want aren't usable; other edits were to reject pending changes by driveby IPs who don't understand sourcing on WP. - CorbieV☊☼ 15:05, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

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Southern Cherokee Nation

The Southern Cherokee Nation of Kentucky (SCNKY) was recognized in 1893 by John Y. Brown on Executive letter head. Executive orders and letters are more than mere letters of tribute. Additionally, The "Kentucky Indian Welfare Act Compliance Desk Aid" states they are a state recognized tribe as does "The-Caring-Difference-Newsletter" published on the Kentucky Court website. To say that none of the sources say they are recognized is inaccurate. I would also like to point out that Governor Brown's letter specifically recognizes them and welcomes them to Kentucky as a tribe, and this transpired prior to any legislative processes that were established by state governments to recognize Indian tribes. <ref name=johnyb>[http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Southern_Cherokee_Nation,_Executive_Letter_by_Governor_John_Y._Brown.jpg John Y. Brown: Governor. Commonwealth of Kentucky]</ref><ref name=TaraM> Metts, Tara.[http://www.scribd.com/doc/164674365/ The-Caring-Difference-Newsletter]"National Indian Child Welfare Association (NICWA) and its implications in Kentucky", Summer 2010, Vol. 9, No. 2, p. 4, www.scibd.com. Retrieved Sep 2013</ref><ref name=SaraC>Cooper, Sara. [http://www.scribd.com/doc/164592276/Indian-Child-Welfare-Act-Compliance-Desk-Aid/ Indian Welfare Act Compliance Desk Aid] May 2010, www.scribd.com. Retrieved Sep 2013</ref> — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.140.116.206 (talk) 23:26, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Take it up on the talk page of the article, not with individual editors. Please familiarize yourself with what "State Recognized" actually means. Those sources do not show state recognition. - CorbieV☊☼ 15:07, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

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sweat lodge information

why did you remove my information and I would like to know which Mikmaq person did you speak to that stated my information was incorrect??? I am Mikmaq I live in the second largest Mi'kmaq community, please tell me who this Mi'kmaq person you spoke to is. everything I wrote is correct and frankly I feel insulted that you deleted my information. Are you first nations, if so where are your people from?

Michael McDonald - Sipekne'katik First nations! — Preceding unsigned comment added by IBmikmaq (talk • contribs) 19:39, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

I will pass your message on to the ceremonial people in question. Whether or not everyone agrees it's accurate, it was a copy and paste from another website, aka a WP:Copyvio. We can't use that much material from another site on WP; it has to be original writing, in a neutral and encyclopedic style, sourced to WP:RS and WP:V standards. I don't make the rules, I'm just one of the people tasked with following and upholding them. - CorbieV☊☼ 19:51, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
Another issue we have to consider is not putting inappropriate amounts of ceremonial details on the Internet. In general, we are more concerned with removing excess detail than in adding things that aren't appropriate for a public site. - CorbieV☊☼ 20:10, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

hello;

on the article "cultural appropriation" you recently removed a number of reference links, without providing ANY valid reason for doing so.

"tidying up" is not a legitimate reason to strip reference links from an article; & as an admin you should know better.

you are not marking a student's term paper here; you don't get to strike out items from the bibliography, just because they aren't formatted they way you prefer them to be.

you could have either added the inline cites yourself, or you could have added the citation-related tag that i have now added to the page.

the fact that you also chose to remove some material in the article supported by the references was even more inappropriate. at the very least, it suggests that you did not even bother to read the reference-materials.

these actions violate wikipedia policy & practices; they could also be construed as vandalism.

if i find you doing this again, whether to my own work, or to work of other editors, you will be reported for it.

with all due respect, Lx 121 (talk) 06:27, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

I explained this in the edit summaries and on the talk page. Take it to the talk page of the article. - CorbieV☊☼ 15:24, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

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Comment

I couldn't resist poking the bear about making a Cherokee princess claim. Hope you've got my back on that one.  ;-) Montanabw(talk) 23:17, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

Maybe he's related to Marilyn Manson and the Appalachian Sioux. - CorbieV☊☼ 00:03, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
@Montanabw: Oh, and did you catch this? [1] and [2] - CorbieV☊☼ 00:07, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
Saw that. Commented. Montanabw(talk) 23:03, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

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What I said on Depp's talk page

Talk:Johnny_Depp#Ancestry Andrea Carter (at your service | my good deeds) 08:43, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

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Marsha P. Johnson

Hi!I I'm starting a conversation on the talk page for Marsha P. Johnson about changes made to my edits on the article. I dug up an interview with Marsha to justify some of my edit but want to discuss this in the talk page instead of through editing the article first. Please take a look and let me know what you think. Rab V (talk) 12:07, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Bummer

I am bummed the GregJackP left again. I'm afraid it was due to the stuff that went on at my RfA. Maybe it wasn't, but he defended my record there and I hope the drama wasn't what pushed him out. For one thing, we need more people who have his level of guts. By the way, I see you didn't !vote there, curious if it was because you chose to just stay out of the drama (and I can't blame anyone who feels that way!) or because you didn't know it was there? (I couldn't canvass potential supporters, so I don't think I was allowed to tell you directly...) Montanabw(talk) 21:58, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

@Montanabw: Oh no... I am so sorry. I had no idea you were at RfA. Things have been so slow there in recent years that I forgot to keep an eye out for any new ones. I haven't had a chance to go over the whole thing, but I'm so sorry it didn't go well. I saw that Greg is retiring, but not the leadup to it. It figures off-wiki stuff had to monopolize my attention when I could have been useful. I dropped Greg a note. I hope he comes back after a break, but I really do understand. I pretty much left the project a few years ago and then only came back gradually. Again, I'm sorry I didn't know. I'll go look it over when I get a chance. Best, - CorbieV☊☼ 15:46, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
I interpreted the WP:CANVASS rules to say that I couldn't just go around telling people, so that stands to reason. Hey, watchlist my talk page, it's good entertainment at all times and I did post notice there! Montanabw(talk) 18:32, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

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Yorubans listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Yorubans. Since you had some involvement with the Yorubans redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. Jamie Tubers (talk) 20:37, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Pipes

If you aren't still watching ceremonial pipe, you might want to check the talk page. Montanabw(talk) 15:01, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

yep

Because what i'm doing is right, and i've explained better now. TheFeralCat (talk) 15:36, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

the snake

I explained why it should be removed... TheFeralCat (talk) 17:35, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

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User:TheFeralCat is back at it

Just a heads-up, I left a notice [3] re resumed fun & games on NeilN's talk page. I hope you gents are amenable to nipping this in the bud quickly this time, before we get another four days of edit-warring followed by the inevitable block. Cheers -- Elmidae (talk) 11:24, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

Seems he was online after all and issued a block for 3 months. Sorry to interrupt ;) -- Elmidae (talk) 11:28, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
No problem, I'm glad you let me know. Neil was kinder than I would have been. Be well, and watch out for predatidationing. ;) - CorbieV☊☼ 16:25, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

October 2015

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revert of one of my change

You revert my modification on the article "calumet disambiguation page".

I made this modification, after I read the french version of the page "calumet", then the english version. I think it's a strange difference between the two languages. In french, "calumet" means ceremonial pipe, without any reference to catholicism. When this word enters english language, the meaning changes.

More strange is, in the french page, it's written that the first Missionaries destroy every calumet, thinking they were devil's tools :)

I'll take a look at the French page, but I think a lot is being lost in translation, and with the varied perspectives. The best source on the conversion rituals was only recently added. The book is readable online as a series of PDFs. I suggest checking it out. - CorbieV☊☼ 23:35, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!

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Can you verify if the addition I made to a page is irrelevant?

Hi,

This is about the page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anu_%28deity%29

I saw that you moved this page a while ago in order to clarify the name so I thought you might be one of the best to make a ruling on this. I know it probably needs a better citation and what was posted probably doesn't belong in that section. (maybe under Etymology?) But when you have a moment can you look it over and make a ruling about the relevancy?

My motivation is to clarify that while Annan does mean many things, that it still refers to Anu as well. Maybe that info belongs on the disambiguation page instead?

Thanks for your time. 75.121.170.200 (talk) 19:22, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

Can you post a diff for the specific edit you want feedback on? I think we have some double redirects that need to be fixed, and a bit of rewriting. The problem with the Anu/Danu etc stuff is that the sources are not all in agreement. Also, grammar. While "Anand" is given the the LGE (I think) as another name for the Morrígu, IIRC, the construction Anann, like Danann in Tuatha Dé Danann, is a grammatical shift to the genitive. However, I'll need to double-check this with the primary sources and the DIL before committing to what needs to happen here. - CorbieV ☊ ☼ 22:38, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
P.S. OK, your edit here:[4] is not irrelevant, but etymology or disambig is a better place for it, and we need a better source. Check the eDIL. - CorbieV ☊ ☼ 22:41, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

Polytheism and Unitarianism

I was curious about the removal of the links I posted on the articles regarding Polytheism and Unitarianism. The explanation for their removal is what puzzled me. The explanation stated that they were simply one POV, and not written from a neutral perspective. I disagree. However, I would very much appreciate it if you could explain what exactly was merely POV about them? How are they not objective?

Here are your comments (I assume this link takes you to the same place it takes me): https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:68.45.159.172&redirect=no

Here are the pages I linked to, to make things easier to discuss: http://philosophies.world/philosophy/unitarianism http://philosophies.world/philosophy/polytheism

From my perspective, these two pages are merely presenting objective, deductive arguments: if one agrees with the premises, one is rationally bound to agree to the conclusions. How is this merely POV? Can the premises be agreed to, yet the conclusions still be rationally rejected? If so, how? Merely declaring it POV and removing the links doesn't provide intellectual satisfaction for me that the claims are in fact not objective.

I realize the conclusions are generally rejected by people who agree to the premises. That is not my concern and should be, I assume, irrelevant to Wikipedia. I am asking if the conclusions can be rationally rejected if the premises are accepted. If not, it seems that these arguments simply present fact, objective fact, not merely one POV. On the other hand, if there is a flaw in the arguments, what exactly is it?

Thank you!

68.45.159.172 (talk) 01:51, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

While articles must be written from a neutral point of view, not every source we link to is neutral. It is acceptable to link to WP:RS sources that present a particular perspective, as long as that perspective is relevant and the source is reliable. I don't consider those sites WP:RS. They just look like anonymous propaganda, and add nothing to the article. If you want to link to sites that say one religion is the One True and Only Way, you'll need to make sure that content is relevant to the article and find better sources than those. As you added links to that site to several pages, other editors and I removed them as spam. - CorbieV ☊ ☼ 17:47, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for the link. I think I understand your position now after reading over the link. If the proof were in a scholarly, peer reviewed journal, it would be acceptable, correct? But not from "primary source material", which is essentially what I have offered. Is that accurate?

Thanks again!

68.45.159.172 (talk) 23:52, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources. - CorbieV ☊ ☼ 17:09, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Glenn Cheney

Glenn Cheney Glenncheney (talk · contribs) is not the same person as David M. Cheney Dcheney (talk · contribs). I'd suggest using great care in labeling people as you did to both Cheneys, because it could be construed as a personal attack. Elizium23 (talk) 18:08, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Good to have clarification there. I'll compare the histories. I hope Dcheney is not spamming the way Glenncheney is. Thanks. - CorbieV ☊ ☼ 19:10, 29 December 2015 (UTC)
I am not aware of who Glenn Cheney is and I am not associated in any way. Regarding Catholic-Hierarchy.org, I clearly state that I am the site creator/owner on my Wiki page and have intentionally not added references to it because of the obvious potential COI. (That being said there are thousands of references to it in Wiki articles.) Regarding whether or not there should be an article on my website, I have said before that is a matter for others to decide - it really doesn't matter to me either way. --Dcheney (talk) 21:31, 29 December 2015 (UTC)
My apologies for the temporary confusion. I was sorting through A LOT of spam (all of it from the other Cheney) on too little caffeine. It was my mistake. Again, sorry for the mixup. - CorbieV ☊ ☼ 21:37, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Happy New Year, CorbieVreccan!

Happy New Year!

CorbieVreccan,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia. Caballero//Historiador ☊ 14:21, 1 January 2016 (UTC)


Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.
Happy New Year to you, too! I think I got the idea for mine from EvergreenFir. Ironically, though we often edit some of the same articles now, when I first saw their signature we didn't. (I swear I'm not a stalker!) - CorbieV ☊ ☼ 18:38, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

Sigh

Per Manitonquat, want me to do the AfD this time, or do you just want to work on NPOV of the article? Your call. Montanabw(talk) 04:15, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Nomination of Manitonquat for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Manitonquat is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Manitonquat (2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Montanabw(talk) 16:34, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Manitonquat

Can I gently suggest you back off this article for a while? You removed a cite to this book from the Oxford University Press among others. That is an impeccable source. Under the circumstances, with you arguing strongly at AfD that the article should be deleted, it might give the appearance of bad faith. Thparkth (talk) 21:56, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

The source in not reliable. Despite who she got to publish it, she is just quoting the guy's claims about himself, from his book. She makes similar mistakes about other authors as well. It's not usable for claiming he's Native. It's not that author's call. You are adding misinformation to the article. I'm sure you mean well, but it's still minsinformation. Your are reverting people who are more familiar with the subject, so may I gently suggest you back off. :) - CorbieV ☊ ☼ 21:59, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
I feel that you are editing disruptively at this point. As an administrator you must surely be familiar with WP:VERIFY. On the one hand, we have a claim that is attributed to an impeccably reliable source. On the other hand, we have your strongly-felt but completely unverified opinion that the source is wrong - at the same time that you are arguing passionately to delete the article, based apparently on your dislike of the subject and apparently your feelings about his racial makeup. Nothing good is going to come of this. Thparkth (talk) 22:04, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
The only racial claims are by Talbot, and they are false ones. You clearly have not researched this topic. As I said on your page: The content you've re-added to the Talbot article is not "verified." An author quoted his claims about himself. She clearly did not do any research or investigation. That is not a WP:RS source for Native American issues like this. It is in no way "impeccable." You can't "verify" that a white guy is a Native Elder by reading his own claims then repeating them verbatim. You are reverting to add misinformation to the 'pedia. The other sources you've reverted me to re-add aren't in English, so regular users of en-wiki cannot evaluate them. This is inappropriate. I am trying to keep WP from being used for misinformation and advertising. Your are disrupting those of us who are trying to keep the info here accurate; you are disrupting our efforts to keep WP from being used to perpetuate fraud. - CorbieV ☊ ☼ 22:11, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
Look, I'm not a drama-magnet, and I see from your talk page that you aren't either. If you remove those sources from the article again, I will make a comment in the AfD to that effect (so that participants don't think the article is just poorly-sourced) and leave it at that. Thparkth (talk) 22:20, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
No prob, I'll mention it there myself. Peace. - CorbieV ☊ ☼ 22:25, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Manitonquat

Hello, I'm User:Horse Dancing. I wanted to let you know that one or more of your recent contributions has been undone because it did not appear constructive. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page.

I realize that you are an administrator & far more experienced on Wikipedia than I. However, I don't see in your comments that you are very familiar with issues concerning Native American lineage. Nor with new material on this topic shown in the DRV: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2015_December_29 Please note on the Talk p for Manitonquat, that all are requested to be thoroughly familiar with this DRV in its entirety before editing this page; to avoid redundant errors, unnecessary reverts, etc.

Thanks for all your hard work for Wikipeidia. Horse Dancing (talk) 15:17, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Horse Dancing, you need to stop with the threatening tone, you are the one causing problems here. Montanabw(talk) 16:22, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
Actually, "the problem" is that I am "very familiar with issues concerning Native American lineage", and so I (and other Wikipedians who are sufficiently familiar with both WP policies, and Indigenous issues, and who care about the 'pedia) will protect the 'pedia from being abused to stake false claims, especially when those false claims are promotional and/or exploitative. Additionally, your insulting and rather revealing comments to Indigenous girl on your talk page further illustrate the problems you are causing here:[5]. Your comments to her were inappropriate and degrading; though it was almost worth having to see that in order to now read her quite capable and rather devastating response:[6] - CorbieV ☊ ☼ 19:07, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

John Paul Morrison (auto)biography

Thanks again for retrieving this deleted article. Recently Graeme Bartlett said we should have saved the history as well for copyright credit. Not sure what this is, but if you agree, could you retrieve that as well, and put it in jpaulm/autobio? TIA. BTW This would tell us who originally created the article about me - IIRC it wasn't me!

Since I am now unblocked, I believe that at least a few administrators now understand that my postings were due to an honest mistake about the nature of WP - I thought it was a repository of knowledge, and was just trying to make sure that this important computing breakthrough got a complete, objective, up to date, description in WP. One who doesn't seem to buy this is JzG, who I am afraid seems to have formed an active dislike for me, as evidenced by his comment in User_talk:Tokyogirl79#Jpaulm saying "Frankly I think we are better off without this user"! Also by the fact that in Flow-based_programming#History the only remaining reference to me is almost as an afterthought, following the reference to Wayne Stevens, who joined the project some 10 years after it started. Plus the references to Wayne's books are tagged "Primary-inline", which sounds to me as if he thinks Wayne was one of the originators - or I have no idea what a "secondary source" is! He has also gone to great lengths to ensure that there is no way for the WP reader to get information about my book (now in its 2nd ed.) - I know it is self-published, but surely it could at least go into External Links...? Not to mention that he deleted my (auto)biography without even notifying me...

I realized I may have screwed up by putting my name on the reference to the TDB - that was a typo - it was in fact written by an IBM lawyer, so that was certainly not self-published. The IBM SysJnl article was written by me, but it had to be approved by a senior IBM Canada architect (whose name I have forgotten!), so if you wish we can move it to External Links - surely that would be OK...?

What if we added "DataFlow and Reactive Programming Systems" by Matt Carkci, which gives me full credit? Or is that disqualified because it was probably self-published also? And there are probably lots of other links now - one place I found is http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/abstractCitations.jsp?tp=&arnumber=5388019&url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fstamp%2Fstamp.jsp%3Ftp%3D%26arnumber%3D5388019 - which contains a number of patent applications. And how about the Forbes magazine article on NiFi: http://www.forbes.com/sites/adrianbridgwater/2015/07/21/nsa-nifi-big-data-automation-project-out-in-the-open/#2715e4857a0b40a2112c5d9a - this talks about FBP, and credits me by name, with a link to my online article. That should be a good secondary source...?

Bottom line, I don't want to get into a war with JzG (I am too old for this!), but I feel he has way overreacted, and a little balance would be nice! What conflict resolution mechanism would be appropriate - since he has not bothered to answer my last few posts? My first goal is to get the History section fixed up, and I really could use some expert advice. Perhaps he was correct in removing the part of History that lists implementations, but the references to NiFi and NoFlo should be retained - I mentioned NiFi above, and NoFlo is creating an enormous buzz in the industry (if you Google Flow-Based Programming, many of the hits are for NoFlo). I do want to stress that I don't understand many of the WP rules, but I feel that there should be some way to require JzG to give more thought before he wields his big knife! So, again, help would be very much appreciated! Jpaulm (talk) 17:28, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

I'll try to look into this when I have more time, but I have a lot on my plate right now. I will say again, that I support the administrative calls that have been made. I have worked with JzG in the past and trust him to make the right call. If I think anyone's made a mistake I will say so, but I am going to re-iterate basic policy here: Other people should decide whether or not your work is notable for inclusion on WP. Other people should edit any articles you are connected to. These are basic, WP:COI guidelines. Best, - CorbieV ☊ ☼ 18:54, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
The relentless self-promotion is wearisome. Guy (Help!) 10:05, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
Yes, it is. My sympathies. - CorbieV ☊ ☼ 20:40, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
@JzG: Nice to hear from you! This is not "relentless self-promotion" - I am merely trying to get the History section of the FBP article fixed so it flows and is historically correct. I don't understand why my book cannot at least be mentioned in External Links - I (now) know it's not "primary", but there are now sufficient secondary sources that will fill that gap. It would be great if you would make the corrections, but you seem to have taken a personal dislike to me, so I am not optimistic about the chances of that! I have sent you several polite posts, with either no results, or short answers so cryptic that I can't figure out what you mean. It would be great if we could resolve this amicably, but I assume, if this is not possible, there are avenues within WP which could let this debate be resolved to both of our satisfactions.
@CorbieVreccan, I understand you are busy, but I would very much appreciate your feedback on this. The WP article is still at the top of the Google hit list, so the article needs to be correct!Jpaulm (talk) 15:55, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
Yeah, Jpaulm, you need to drop this. That's my feedback. Continuing to push this will probably lead to a consensus to topic ban or block you. I'm serious. If you want to be a Wikipedian, go contribute to articles that have nothing to do with you. If you want to contribute to the articles you've been asked to back off from, leave one, brief mention on the article talk page then move on. It is not up to you. It is up to those who have not been cited for COI. - CorbieV ☊ ☼ 20:40, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
I completely get your point! But, a) How can you and JzG say it's "self-promotion" when there is almost no reference to me and none at all to my book in the FBP article any more? b) I want to get the history of FBP correct - right now, it's plain wrong! If I put a correction up on the talk page, will someone fix the article? I would be happy with that. Regards. Jpaulm (talk) 22:02, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

A stronger message?

I was wondering if you think this user might need a stronger message. Thanks. Caballero/Historiador ⎌ 19:10, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

'Navel Wars' - and other international crisis'...

Hi Corbi - thank you for your humorist comment here [7] regarding the 'navel wars' between Cher and Nichelle Nichols on the Cher page. I'm suspecting that Lordelliott is actually a Cher promotional agent, or something to this effect, since he/she has only edited exclusively the Cher page since 2010. I would like to ask you to redo your comment and look at the issue more objectively, so that we can get a resolution on this - thanks... Dinkytown talk 20:58, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA No, I'm not. I'm just a Brazilian Cher aficionado hoping to improve my English skills. Good one, tho. Lordelliott (talk) 00:18, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Other stuff

CorbieVreccan - all books added to DSE's profile had ISBN's provided. These are all books that were authored by DSE and distributed via Amazon. I don't understand why this is not verifiable as they are clearly listed on Amazon.

Further, you've gone on to delete more than I've added. This doesn't make sense to me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jasmineb2015 (talk • contribs) 18:14, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

I looked up the ones I initially removed (months ago) and they were not clearly listed. If something has changed to make these notable, put the list and citations on the talk page of the article for discussion. Additionally, you listed a book where the author mentions him (not even clear it's him, as there were already people of that name before he took the name on) as authored by him when it's clearly not. Not every booklet or article someone self-publishes is notable. Buying an ISBN for his work doesn't change the fact it's self-published. When most of their work is like that, we only do a selected biblio, not an exhaustive one. It's reasonable to list some of the self-published booklets, but not every one of them. Tell us on the article talk page what makes those booklets notable. - CorbieV ☊ ☼ 18:44, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Request to restore deleted page - Betty X

Betty X is an influential female musician, conceptual artist, and songwriter that first made her impact in Seattle during the 1990's. She has been described by Seattle publications as a "Dangerously sexy blend of poisonous and volatile apocalyptic-metal with sarcastic aggro female vocals." Betty X has become one of the most recognized names in conceptual art, post-apocalyptic rock - not just in Seattle, but in Austin and Los Angeles, as well. She continues to be a powerful influence for female singers/songwriters/artists/musicians and participates on many panel discussions and appearances along with Patti Quatro and others, in addition to her live performances and collaborations with such bands as Ministry and Pigface.

Betty X is currently gearing up to release her fifth solo album, which is being co-produced by the legendary Al Jourgensen of Ministry fame, confirming her presence as a current and relevant musician. This article supports the claim that Betty X has played with Ministry, [1], and removes any question of the claim's validity.

This article [2], as well as this book excerpt, [3], confirm and validate her work with Martin Atkins and Pigface: Tour Smart.

From her first band, Salon Betty, which performed with Alice In Chains and other influential Seattle bands, to being featured on the new Surgical Meth Machine (Al Jourgensen's new project) to be released April 15th on Nuclear Blast records, Betty X continues to be relevant in the music industry.

Betty X is affiliated with Salon Betty, Satan in High Heels, Ministry, Pigface, Sheep on Drugs, and Surgical Meth Machine. She has current websites and fan pages including [4], [5], [6], [7], [8]. It would be a detriment to the history of female artists and musicians, as well as the history of post-apocalyptic rock, music in Seattle, etc.

With all due respect, I am requesting that this page, which has been active for over 10 years, be fully restored. Any claims that were deemed to be without validation will be updated, as well as any other pertinent information. Not only does the removal of this page have an impact on booking agents, etc., to research Betty X, but it also hinders the education of younger generation conceptual artists, musicians, singers, and songwriters.Terivangogo (talk) 20:59, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ http://www.ontourmonthly.com/ministry-spreads-the-word-at-the-bomb-factory-in-dallas/
  2. ^ http://www.xmag.com/archives/13-09-mar06/feature4.html
  3. ^ https://books.google.com/books?id=le5Sr5YCyk4C&pg=PA130&lpg=PA130&dq=%22Betty+X%22+%2B+Pigface&source=bl&ots=BRPDTk1w8T&sig=EyYGbKYns_lyApJYIvZJ-0pCsDk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi7g8PLhfjKAhWCeSYKHWQQDE04ChDoAQglMAI#v=onepage&q=%22Betty%20X%22%20%2B%20Pigface&f=false
  4. ^ https://bettyx.bandcamp.com/
  5. ^ https://www.facebook.com/BettyXOfficial/?pnref=lhc
  6. ^ https://twitter.com/bettyxofficial
  7. ^ https://www.reverbnation.com/bettyx
  8. ^ https://myspace.com/bettyx
FYI CV this thread Wikipedia:Help desk#Deleted.2Fremoved article - Betty X has already answered this persons questions. I have directed the to WP:DRV as well. Cheers and enjoy your week. MarnetteD|Talk 21:08, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
Thanks Marnette, I replied over there. - CorbieV ☊ ☼ 21:54, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
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