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April 11

Premier League relegation/return statistics

Is there someplace on the intertubes where I can see statistics on Premier League relegation and rates of return? West Brom and Newcastle are back up immediately this year, and that makes me curious to see what the break down is... a nice graph with relegated teams on the Y-axis and years it took to return on the X-axis would be perrrrrrrrrrrrrfect. :-) 74.115.162.12 (talk) 00:21, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Couldn't find anything online but the data you need is available at List of Premier League seasons. Since i'm bored you get:

• 1992-1993 - 2 x 1 season to return, 1 x 2 seasons to return
• 1993-1994 - 1 x 12 seasons to return, 2 x not yet returned
• 1994-1995 - 1 x 1 season to return, 1 x 2 seasons to return, 1 x 5 seasons to return, 1 x 9 seasons to return
• 1995-1996 - 1 x 1 season to return, 1 x 4 seasons to return, 1 x not yet returned
• 1996-1997 - 2 x 1 season to return, 1 x 2 seasons to return
• 1997-1998 - 1 x 3 seasons to return, 2 x not yet returned
• 1998-1999 - 1 x 1 season to return, 1 x 2 seasons to return, 1 x not yet returned
• 1999-2000 - 1 x 6 seasons to return, 2 x not yet returned
• 2000-2001 - 1 x 1 season to return, 2 x not yet returned
• 2001-2002 - 1 x 1 season to return, 1 x 5 seasons to return, 1 x not yet returned
• 2002-2003 - 1 x 1 season to return, 2 x 2 seasons to return
• 2003-2004 - 1 x 5 seasons to return, 2 x not yet returned
• 2004-2005 - 3 x not yet returned
• 2005-2006 - 2 x 1 season to return, 1 x 2 seasons to return
• 2006-2007 - 3 x not yet returned
• 2007-2008 - 1 x 1 season to return, 2 x not yet returned
• 2008-2009 - currently 2 x 1 season to return (West Brom / Newcastle are promoted) and 1 x not yet to return (most likely)
• Overall there are 43 teams that have played in the Premier League, 7 of which have been in that league the entire time it has existed (Arsenal, Aston Villa, Chelsea, Everton, Liverpool, Man Utd, Spurs) by my read-through of (List of FA Premier League clubs)194.221.133.226 (talk) 08:56, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

since i'm really bored...

• 22 teams have been relegated only to not have returned since been relgated. That gives you 45% of teams relegated have yet to return, 30% return within one season (15 clubs) and 8% after 2 seasons (4 clubs) - note not cumulative. Cumulatively speaking it takes around 6 seasons before 50% of the clubs that were relegated are back in the Premier League, but after that it's only at 55% after 12 seasons, since a good 45% of clubs never return! 194.221.133.226 (talk) 09:07, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

note that there have been 49 relegated teams, but some teams have been relegated and promoted more than once hence there been less teams overall (43) that have played in the league than there are teams that have been relegated and promoted. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 09:11, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Wow! Outstanding, thank you! That's interesting that 6 years seems to be a bit of a cliff. I guess by that point you've largely replaced your roster and the new lads are from the Championship League talent pool so you kinda get stuck? Thanks again! 61.161.170.254 (talk) 09:39, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

What I find is there are some teams (West Bromich Albion being a key example) that are seemingly 'too good' for the Championship but also 'not good enough' for the Premier League). They seem to yo-yo back and forth. Sunderland are similar but somehow I don't count them as the same yo-yo type team. Crystal Palace did it a few times too. As for 'why' my theory is similar to yours - when a club gets relegated they have largely a squad that is much better than the league below, so provided they can retain the squad they stand a good chance of re-promotion. If they don't, however, with every passing season it seems to be less 'guaranteed' that they'll return. Some clubs (Leeds United for example) suffered hugely financially and so ultimately had their fate decided for them. They'll be back one day though no doubt, too many fans and too big a club not to end up back in the Premiership (though I suppose that's what Notts Forest and Sheff Wednesday fans would argue too!) 194.221.133.226 (talk) 09:51, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

West Brom aren't a yo-yo club, they're a yam yam club. The parachute payment system gives relegated clubs an advantage over others in their new league. There is discussion about extending these payments to a period of four years.--Frumpo (talk) 16:29, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

With or Without You

In the U2 song "With or Without You", the lyrics say "See the stone set in your eyes, see the thorn twist in your side, I wait for you" and then "Sleight of hand and twist or fate, on a bed of nails she makes me wait, and I wait without you", but I've noticed that Bono in the first part says "I waits for you" and the second part he says "And I waist without you". Can anyone tell me if Bono actually says "Waits" and "Waist" instead of "Wait" in the song? David Pro (talk) 15:16, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

I don't know the song, but let me run these two possibilities by you and see if either of them make sense: (1) He messed up [it happens] and meant to say "waits" again; (2) He said "waste", as in "I'm wasting away" or something like that. Also, have you tried to google the song? Almost any song you can think of has lyrics somewhere on the web. Although that's not necessarily authoritative, as the lyrics often from average citizens listening to the song. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:25, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

And, even if the lyrics are "official", that may just mean they list what the singer was supposed to sing, not what they actually sang. There can also be variation from one performance to the next. StuRat (talk) 15:31, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Especially if the song is recorded "live", where mistakes can end up staying for posterity if they don't do a retake. Or if the singer decides to change the words, which also can happen. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:36, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

He's singing... "i'll wait for you" and then in the second he's singing "i'll wait without you" and he has an Irish accent so you're hearing a pronunciation of a word you're not used to. Having just listen to the song there's no doubt he's singing "i'll wait for you" and "i'll wait without you" (mine being from the 1980-1990 best of US album). ny156uk (talk) 16:15, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

You might find the mondegreen article has some insight into why you heard what you though you heard. Astronaut (talk) 18:59, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Shave and a haircut...

I'm trying to locate a file of the music that "shave and a haircut - two bits" is usually set to. In the UK we have many words set to this music, but what I remember is "barm tiddy batch cake - brown bread" from my childhood. Can anyone help with this please? --TammyMoet (talk) 19:13, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

There is one at the bottom of shave and a haircut. Adam Bishop (talk) 19:20, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Well we really do have an article on everything! Thank you! Yours, one gobsmacked Brit. --TammyMoet (talk) 19:36, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

There's a scene in Who Framed Roger Rabbit where the antagonist and the rabbit "perform" that short bit. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:39, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Seems to be used frequently by Amtrak trains as they depart the station:[1] Fittingly, the tune is used at both the beginning and ending of this song[2] which dates from 1915 when the tune was presumably still new. The original words to that little tune apparently were "shave and haircut, shampoo". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:06, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Snooki Polizzi's income

According to this morning's Parade magazine, Snooki Polizzi, of MTV's Jersey Shore, earns $2200 per year. Are we really supposed to believe that these guys aren't being paid for their appearance on the show? Woogee (talk) 21:40, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Or maybe she claimed $2200 of income last year; that's a big difference than earning $2200 in total. There are legal ways of reducing your declarable income in terms of filing your federal income taxes. The entire system of deductions is so complex that it is impossible to go into it all here, but when a magazine reports "So and so earned $XXXX last year" what they are really saying is "We looked at the publicly availible tax returns of so-and-so, and they claimed $XXXX of declarable income". --Jayron32 02:53, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

According to this article, she earns as much as $10,000 for a single private appearance (club openings, conventions, etc...). caknuck _° needs to be running more often 06:43, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

April 12

Can't recall dance song

I remember it from about 10ish years ago. In it, a woman (or someone who sounds like a woman) holds a continuous note for >30ish seconds. I thought it was Narayan by The Prodigy, but I listened to the whole track but it isn't. I realize I'm not giving a lot of info, but this is driving me nuts.

Thanks98.209.119.116 (talk) 05:31, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Not a dance song, but When I'm With You by Sheriff has a really long and high note at the end, which according to the article holds the record for longest note ever in a pop song. That came out around 1990. 75.157.57.12 (talk) 05:51, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Silence (song) by Delirium and featuring Sarah McLachlan? Not sure about 30-seconds but her singing style involves a lot of holding notes for pro-longed periods of time. What sort of dance music was it? 194.221.133.226 (talk) 09:07, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Some possibilities though they may not qualify as 'dance' music per se.

• "I Have Peace" by Strike
• "Eject" by Senser

Exxolon (talk) 15:20, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

I don't listen to a lot of dance music, so this might not be completely accurate, but I would classify it as trance. The woman in it sang it like a traditional Indian song, not unlike the early notes of this woman here in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jrf2k0Klc-U

98.209.119.116 (talk) 04:14, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Reminds me of hearing Johnny Mathis on the Ed Sullivan Show performing Johnny One Note; he held one note for the whole song while The Lennon Sisters sang the lyrics. Amazing. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 06:04, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Use of "You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet" song on Drew Carey Show

I love BTO's "You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet" and am sure that I remember seeing it on an episode of the Drew Carey Show when the guys did a striptease. I think that episode was made when everybody was still making mileage from "The Full Monty" (film). Trouble is, no one I've spoken to seems to remember the Drew Carey use of the song, and it's not mentioned in your references to other uses of that song. Did I only dream that I saw it on the Drew Carey Show?Choosewiki (talk) 07:30, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

If you dreamed it, you weren't the only one. Dismas|^(talk) 07:35, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

And the episode was apparently entitled "The Dog and Pony Show". It aired in November '97. The Full Monty was released the same year. Dismas|^(talk) 07:39, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Song in the Suite Life of Zack and Cody programme

Hello. Can anyone tell me the name of the song that is played at the very end in the episode of the above programme, "A Prom Story"? Thanks. 86.166.101.235 (talk) 15:12, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm not familiar with the episode, so I don't know whether it's "at the very end"; but would it be Tracy Chapman's "The Promise", as suggested in this question and answer? Deor (talk) 17:47, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. It is at the very end just as (this won't mean much to you if you don't watch the programme) Maddie Fitzpatrick and Zack Martin dance at the end of their prom. The clip in question can be found on YouTube ([3]), the song is at the end of it. Oh, and I don't think it is Tracy Chapman, the lyrics are the same but are different if you watch that clip.

No, it doesn't sound like "The Promise" (which I've just listened to), and the lyrics are different. Sorry. Deor (talk) 20:20, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Regional DVDs

What happens if I live in the USA and purchase (and then play) a DVD that is not from Region 1? Say that I purchase on the internet a Region 2 DVD. What would happen when I try to play it on my American DVD player? Would the movie not play at all? Would the DVD player not recognize the DVD at all? Would the movie still play, but with terrible quality (be grainy, scratchy, filled with snow and static, etc.)? Thanks. (64.252.65.146 (talk) 16:32, 12 April 2010 (UTC))

It won't play, unless you have a multi-region player. There are ways round this, at your own risk, such as here and here.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 17:20, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Most multi-region hacks are pretty trivial. I presume you can easily get multi-region players in the US? I wouldn't buy anything else here in the UK. Once your player is multi-region, DVDs from other regions should play perfectly. --Michig (talk) 17:24, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Multi-region or region free DVD players are rather hard to find in the US. There are various models that can be unlocked by entering a code in the remote, but this is never an advertised feature so you will have to rely on other resources to find these DVD players. Buying a region free DVD player in the US is not easy to do, but if you're willing to put in the research, they can be found. Caltsar (talk) 19:30, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Some software players, such as VLC media player, will play Video DVDs regardless of the region code of the disc or your DVD drive. Many DVD copying programs will remove region coding (as well as encryption and other features), leaving an any-region unencrypted copy. The legality of this will vary. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 19:42, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

To answer your specific question about what will happen: You will get an error message from your DVD player that says something like it's the wrong region or an incompatible disc. For exampe, something like this. --Bavi H (talk) 23:49, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Note that the region coding is per VOB file, not per disk. Thus, some video segments, which aren't protected, may still play. This includes ads and sometimes extras. StuRat (talk) 12:50, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for the responses. Much appreciated. (64.252.65.146 (talk) 15:25, 18 April 2010 (UTC))

Yiddush vaudeville comedian

I am looking for information about Shepsil Schnitelputzel, a comic who appeared in the '40s at the National Theatre on Second Avenue near the Williamsburg Bridge. This was a Yiddush vaudeville venue.

I notice you twice spell the word "Yiddush". Is this in any way different from "Yiddish"? I found nothing on Google, but you never know ... -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 19:38, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Yiddish is the Yiddish word for "Jewish", and comes from the German Jüdisch. The Joys of Yiddish by Leo Rosten gives no alternative spellings, so I conclude there is no "Yiddush". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:49, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

As I suspected. Thanks, BB. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 18:17, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

I found one Google hit for the spelling "Scheptzl Schnitzlputzl" (see under "subject.keywords") that appears to be somehow related to your man. I don't have the correct software to hear the linked audio file, unfortunately. This sounds like something that needs to be researched in old books and periodicals that are unlikely to be online; perhaps that spelling will help. (It would be helpful to know the real name behind that comic stage name, for instance.) Deor (talk) 20:11, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

I was able to listen. Thanks for that! It looks like "Scheptzl Schnitzlputzl" was one of Irving Jacobson's stage characters. The song, "Az men muzsh muzsh men" can be found on Yiddish Vaudeville anthologies, such as here. The artist is always credited as Irving Jacobson. "Schnitzlputzl" only occurs in Deor's link (which also credits Jacobson).

As for the name, Scheptzl corresponds to the first name Shebsel, Schepsel, etc. "Schnitzlputzl", apart from just being a funny name, can also be a term of endearment."Putzl" or "Putzerl" (more frequently heard in modern day Austria) means something like "Baby", in an endearing way. In a less endearing way, it can mean something else too. ---Sluzzelin talk 03:43, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Looking at the entry I linked, I also suspected that Schnitzlputzl may have been a persona adopted by Jacobson, but I couldn't find any confirmation in the online information about Jacobson, so I decided not to mention that. You're probably correct, though. Deor (talk) 12:03, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

April 13

Hercules and the Augean stables in film

What are some depictions of Hercules (or Heracles) cleaning the Augean stables in film? I am particular interested in color, live action films from 1985 or earlier.

I checked that neither Hercules (1958 film) nor Hercules Unchained contains this labor.

I recall seeing such a thing, but I cannot recall if was swords and sandals or Ray Harryhausen. JackSchmidt (talk) 01:53, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

IGN Account

Hi, how can I delete my IGN account? There doesn't seem to be any FAQs or help on the site so I was thinking there's maybe been other users in the same situation. Can you even delete it or should I just leave it? Chevymontecarlo. 06:05, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

They have a contact page. Help from them might come just as fast as an answer from one of us. And it's likely to be more complete and accurate. Dismas|^(talk) 06:52, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

OK. Chevymontecarlo. 14:40, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Football player identification

Hi, I am trying to add a description to this photo. Can anyone help me with the year and the player's names? It looks like a World Cup because they have a familiar emblem on their arms, but I can't remember what World Cup it is. Can anyone help? Chevymontecarlo. 06:28, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Looks like Sotirios Kyrgiakos on the ground, playing for Greece. Don't recognize the other player.--Michig (talk) 06:34, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

The other player appears to be Etey Schechter (FIFA link). Compare with this image. From the game Greece - Israel on 1 April 2009? ---Sluzzelin talk 07:10, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

OK, I will add you information. Thanks. Chevymontecarlo. 14:40, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

US translation: This Q is about soccer. StuRat (talk) 20:17, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

I would hope that the soccer ball in the image would have given that away, Stu. Dismas|^(talk) 23:13, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Not everyone looks at the photos. StuRat (talk) 20:58, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Absolutely. If the question had been about American football, would you have said "UK translation: this Q is about American football"? I think not, so why explain it for the benefit of Americans? --Richardrj ^{talk email} 07:53, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

If the title had just said "football", and was actually about American football, then, yes, I would have added a clarification. Just calling either game "football" is unclear. StuRat (talk) 20:58, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Federico Fellini

i heard Federico Fellini movies are whats bad is good good is bad ect i like movies like that. can someone suggest one of his movies for me to watch?

La Dolce Vita would be the one to start off with. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 13:00, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm particularly fond of I clowns. His segment of the anthology film Histoires extraordinaires (Spirits of the Dead) is also interesting, though you have to sit through the dreadful Roger Vadim/Jane Fonda segment to get to the Malle and Fellini segments. Deor (talk) 13:14, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

which one of his movies has the bad guy as the good guy?

I don't know how interested Fellini was in good v. evil, but he certainly had a heart for people on the fringe of society, as well as for the more humane of human "vices". Perhaps you mean the swindlers in Il bidone. His sympathy for the underdog can be felt in Le notti di Cabiria. Prostitutes get a non-judgmental treatment in Roma too. Then there are the lazy good-for-nothings in I vitelloni. Satyricon is a feast of vices. It is even difficult not to feel anything for the violent, brutal Zampanò in La strada. The cold Casanova is perhaps an unlikable exception in the warm world of Fellini. ---Sluzzelin talk 21:45, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Who Wants To Be A Millionaire odd question

A few minutes ago on UK TV was this question: Which is nearest to the equator: Mount Rushmore, the Suez Canal, the Gobi Desert, or Ayers Rock? And the man said it was.....Ayers Rock. Is that correct? 89.240.34.241 (talk) 19:57, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes. - Jarry1250 ^{[Humorous? Discuss.]} 20:02, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Terse. 89.240.34.241 (talk) 20:03, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Geographic coordinates for these locations are (or should be) at the top of each article. Uluru (Ayers Rock) is about 25 degrees south of the equator, the Suez Canal is about 30 degrees north, the Gobi Desert is... (the article doesn't say, but about 45 degrees north), and Mount Rushmore about 43 degrees north - so Ayers Rock is closest to the equator by some distance. Ghmyrtle (talk) 20:08, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

I would have said the Suez Canal. 89.240.34.241 (talk) 20:05, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

It's complicated by the fact that two of the items, the Gobi Desert and the Suez Canal, are big enough to have a range of coords. But, in this case, I'd take it to mean "which of those places, at it's closest point, is closest to the equator". I'm not sure if using the farthest point would make a diff, though, but I bet it would if we had to choose between Mount Rushmore and the Gobi Desert only. StuRat (talk) 20:12, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

In any event, Uluru is way closer to the Equator than any point in either the Gobi or the Suez. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 21:24, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

It must be a factoid illusion, brought about by Captain Cook probing into the far south and still not finding Australia. It must be a lot further north than I had supposed. 89.240.34.241 (talk) 21:07, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Where did you read your history, mate? Cook did "find" Australia, in 1770, although he was far from the first. Australia is not as far south as New Zealand, Argentina or Chile, or parts thereof. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 21:24, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Indeed even NZ isn't that far south compared to a number of places in the Northern hemisphere. Invercargill is 46°25.5′S which is closer to the equator then Bern 46°57′N Nil Einne (talk) 03:03, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

I think that Americans (I don't know about others) tend to mentally place the equator farther north than it really is. So, Australia appears to be further south than it really is. This first came to my attention after I did a deployment in Panama and I was asked by a rather intelligent person if it was my first trip south of the equator. Since then, I've heard people talking about being in the southern hemisphere while in Egypt and Israel. I'm not sure how widespread this is. It is one of those things where I noticed it and now it stands out when I hear others make similar comments. -- kainaw™ 04:00, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Nil Einne's Invercargill reference is very telling. It's the world's most southerly city. Yet it’s still closer to the equator than Berne, and there are many, many cities further north than Berne and thus even further away from the equator. This graphically illustrates how top heavy the world is, and why the old Mercator projection is still the one in most people’s heads, which makes the northern lands look bigger and more dominant than they are. For example, Russia appears to be larger than the entire continent of Africa, but in truth it's not that large. So, consequently the southern lands seem smaller and more distant than they really are. But there's a huge chunk of Australia that's above the Tropic of Capricorn. And the northen tip of Queensland is only a few miles south of the coast of New Guinea. Not that very far from the Equator. -- 202.142.129.66 (talk) 04:33, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Kainaw has an interesting point although the OP is British I believe (IP looks up to the UK and they're referring to the UK version of the show). I'm guessing quite a few people think the entirety of South America is in the southern hemisphere. (Of course this part of the confusion could be avoided if we stick with the Americas being one continent as I believe many of those living in 'South America' do.) And I mentioned this in another desk on an unrelated issue but enough people think Kuala Lumpur is in the southern hemisphere that so does a learning bot although that's perhaps just as much a lack of knowledge of where KL is as anything however it does mean they're not aware that most of Indonesia, parts of the Maldives and the entirety of East Timor are the only parts of Asia in the southern hemisphere.

BTW, the most southern city is perhaps Puerto Williams in Chile 54°56′S or Ushuaia in Argentina 54°48′S or something in South America anyway (and not that different in latitude) depending on your definition, unless you need 1 million in which case it's Melbourne. Of course the fact that the southern most city with 1 million people is 37°48′49″S is a story in itself. Anyway see List of southernmost items and Southernmost settlements. Invercargill is the southernmost city in NZ. South America is significantly more south then NZ (not counting territories) although it't a small part.

Nil Einne (talk) 05:25, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

I wonder where "quite a few people [who] think the entirety of South America is in the southern hemisphere" think Equador is, then? :) FiggyBee (talk) 09:39, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

I think the key reason people believe that the equator is north of where it really is is that as the people above have pointed out, populated Europe (for example) extends much further north than the Southern hemisphere does south. They'd rule a line that suggested land mass was vaguely equal north and south. - Jarry1250 ^{[Humorous? Discuss.]} 10:31, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

April 14

Why do child actors often play characters younger than their real age?

I've heard that some say that children look younger on the set? But why? What would skew our perceptions that way?

76.64.54.174 (talk) 04:27, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Well, they want actors who are mature enough and have enough experience to handle the role, and the older kids are usually thus better qualified. However, they want them to look younger, so tend to choose actors who are short and/or look young. This explains actors like Gary Coleman and Michael J Fox. They also sometimes go to extremes to make them look younger than they are, such as attempting to hide the breasts on a "budding actress", like Soleil Moon Frye on Punky Brewster. StuRat (talk) 05:21, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

They did the same with Judy Garland in the Wizard of Oz, I believe ... the taping of her breasts, that is. Thanks. (64.252.65.146 (talk) 03:33, 15 April 2010 (UTC))

Yes. It wasn't fun, but it was part of the job. Still, she was about the tallest "little girl" that ever appeared on-screen. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:30, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

As for the the last question, it's not hard. There are many cultural stereotypes associated with what a kid should look like. For instance, if you give a young female actor pig tails, the audience is going to assume that the character is a few years younger than they might otherwise believe. This is because many people are used to seeing only children with pig tails. Dismas|^(talk) 10:03, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Another obvious method is that males old enough to have facial hair remain clean-shaven, to look younger. They may either avoid scenes where body hair is visible, or they may shave that, too. StuRat (talk) 13:29, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

For females, in addition to strapping down and hiding breasts behind loose clothes, there's also avoiding the use of make-up like eye shadow and lipstick, and choosing younger clothes styles, like overalls. StuRat (talk) 13:54, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

For scenes where the body can't be hidden (like a girl in a bathing suit), they may also employ a younger body double, and only use the older actress for face close-ups. CGI can also now be used to flatten the curves. StuRat (talk) 13:58, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Another reason to keep child actors in younger roles is to extend a TV series, sequence of movie sequels, or formulaic series of movies. For example, the Shirley Temple movies all featured a common formula with a girl "talented and wise beyond her years". This formula doesn't work once the girl becomes a woman. For a movie or TV series, they may choose to age the characters more slowly than the actors. The ultimate way to keep the characters young is to do cartoons, like The Simpsons, where they don't age at all (although the voice actors will eventually start to sound older). StuRat (talk) 14:06, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Actually, not necessarily, StuRat ... as to your last point. They often employ adult actors to voice child roles. A tried and true trick is using an adult female to voice a male child (e.g., Bart Simpson is voiced by female voice actress Nancy Cartwright). Thanks. (64.252.65.146 (talk) 03:37, 15 April 2010 (UTC))

But even then, after 50 years or so they will start to sound older. And, if they're in their 50s or 60s to start with, you may get a lot less out of them. StuRat (talk) 20:11, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Wear and tear of the shoes and other clothing of actresses/actors?

When a character wears the same wardrobe, say throughout a film or TV series, and the filming takes the span of maybe years, are multiples of the same item generally needed to be worn and disgarded? For instance, I'd imagine that a pair of shoes an actress wears would get pretty run down from walking during filming and unless the show purposely wants to show her with new shoes at the start of the series, and more scuffed ones by the end, wouldn't many pairs be needed?

76.64.54.174 (talk) 04:35, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Multiple copies of the same stuff are commonplace. There were several copies of Dorothy's ruby slippers, for example. I recall that when Superman (1978) was made, there were quite a few suits for Chris Reeve, and he would switch them out when they started to show perspiration. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:48, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Any respectable production (even a stage production) has an entire department just for maintaining the wardrobe. So, if something is getting worn out, it will be fixed or replaced quickly. -- kainaw™ 04:56, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Also note that many films are shot out of sequence, and having the same shoes be well worn in the first scene and brand new at the end would be bad. So, they would need multiple copies even if they did want to show increasing wear throughout the show. In this case, they would need to have different pairs which had different levels of wear, and choose the proper wear level for each scene. StuRat (talk) 05:16, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

"Costume continuity" or "wardrobe continuity" is the term used for the job. The person or persons responsible must provide and maintain the correct costumes, in the correct condition, for each scene as it is shot, and this includes the provision of duplicate items in various different states as required, just as StuRat says. Karenjc 17:39, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, professional wardrobe people have 2 or 3 copies of every piece of clothing used by the main actors. More than that if the actor is involved in, for example, a fight scene. Having just one is a problem waiting to happen: "one is none", as the saying goes. Actors of course cannot leave the set wearing their wardrobe, for the most part. —Kevin Myers 06:04, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Title of Random Song

Resolved

Since I can't figure out where it might lie, what is the title and artist of an Irish-esque song that utilizes the phrase "I get no doubt", or something like that, as well as something about mixing drinks, and probably most importantly "Danny Boy". Is the latter the song title? Does anyone know what I'm talking about?? 2D Backfire Master ^{sweet emotion} 12:46, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

That's the Chumbawamba Tubthumping lyrics: [4]. StuRat (talk) 12:53, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

BTW, it's "I get knocked down", not "I get no doubt". StuRat (talk) 13:02, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

copyright debate

I removed the link to a copyvio lyrics site. --Richardrj talk email 12:55, 14 April 2010 (UTC) And I've restored it. Copyright status gives us a reason to remove it from an article, but not a talk page like this, AFAIK. Do you have any policy that says you can do that ? If not, then the policy on not editing the talk page posts of others rules here. StuRat (talk) 13:00, 14 April 2010 (UTC) here ---Sluzzelin talk 13:05, 14 April 2010 (UTC) The first sentence of that linked section talks about a "Wikipedia article", and there is no mention of talk pages in that section. StuRat (talk) 13:09, 14 April 2010 (UTC) (e/c) There is also WP:ELNEVER, which says much the same thing. StuRat's point, however, is that these policies only apply to article space, not to the reference desk. The point is moot, there is probably no guidance that explicitly refers to copyvio links on the RD, but the spirit of the thing is clear: no linking to copyvio sites. --Richardrj talk email 13:11, 14 April 2010 (UTC) (Please use small text to indicate comments which aren't answers to the original Q.) Policy regarding articles is moot. If there's a policy on talk page links, then that would apply to the Ref Desk. If not, then there is no policy on links here. Also note that we have no indication that the band objects to their lyrics being posted at that site, as it's difficult to imagine how they suffer financial harm from it. Indeed, it may be considered free advertising for their music. Do you have any indication that they object ? StuRat (talk) 13:21, 14 April 2010 (UTC) (e/c) You seem to think that "moot" is a synonym of "irrelevant", which it is not. Anyway, lack of a policy on this is neither here nor there. Just because there is no policy on copyvio links on the RD, doesn't mean you can just go ahead and link to copyvio sites here regardless. Ask yourself whether the spirit of the ban on copyvio links in article space ought to apply here. If your answer is "yes" – and I don't see how it can't be – then you should not link to them, regardless of whether there is a policy on the matter. --Richardrj talk email 13:29, 14 April 2010 (UTC) Wiktionary:moot does mean irrelevant, at least in North America. See def 2. When I ask myself if article rules should apply to talk pages like this, the answer is a resounding "no", since articles require a much higher standard. For comparison, first imagine if someone wrote "He's a retard" in an article about a person with limited mental abilities. It would be appropriate to change it to say "He's suffering from mental retardation". Now imagine that this was posted on the talk page for that article. Would it be appropriate to edit the post to change the wording ? No, although it would be fine to post a follow-up suggesting the proper term. The same thing applies here. If you want to post a follow-up saying that you believe that site violates copyright laws, that's fine, but don't change the posts of others, unless there's a policy specifically for talk pages that says you are allowed to do so. StuRat (talk) 13:37, 14 April 2010 (UTC) Can someone do that fancy show/hide thing on this subthread? I don't know how to do that. I disagree entirely – the same reasons for not copyvio-linking in article space should apply here, i.e. that directing others to copyvio material may be considered contributory copyright infringement and sheds a bad light on Wikipedia. On your last point – policy schmolicy, we always redact people's email addresses from here although there's no policy telling us to should do so. --Richardrj talk email 13:58, 14 April 2010 (UTC) If you really feel this needs debating, take it to the ref desk talk page so that everyone can get involved. Vimescarrot (talk) 14:03, 14 April 2010 (UTC) Done, see here. --Richardrj talk email 14:10, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

FC Scheiße 04

Is “FC Scheiße 04” a derogatory nickname for “FC Schalke 04”? --84.61.146.104 (talk) 14:06, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, though not a very clever one. ---Sluzzelin talk 14:10, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Well, considering "Scheisse" means "shit" in German, I don't see why not. TomorrowTime (talk) 14:15, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Futurama intro

Which episode of Futurama has the music video to Psyche Rock (dancing electrical components) as its 'screen gag'?--Editor510 ^{drop us a line, mate} 16:00, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Word Meaning & Origin

In the movie River of no Return starring Marilyn Monroe there is a song called River of no Return. In that song there is a word "wail-a-ree". What is the meaning and origin of that word? —Preceding unsigned comment added by MartinRob (talk • contribs) 23:12, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Here's a youtube of it.[5] I've found plenty of lyrics references but no explanation. My guess would be it's the songwriter's twist on "wail", a wail being a lamenting call, and she's hearing the river of no return calling "wail-a-ree". I'll see if I can find anything else about it. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:25, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Don't the Rhine maidens sing " "Weilalala leia." ? Could this be what it is referring to?..hotclaws 21:58, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Maybe: Rhinemaidens#Rhine Maidens' music. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:20, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

I was thinking maybe a variation on "wait a wee", a Scottish phrase and Scottish song, also used in Robert Burns' poetry. At any rate, when you google "wail-a-ree", every result with one or two exceptions refers to "River of No Return", a strong indication that the origin was lyricist Ken Darby. Pepso2 (talk) 00:01, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

TV show air times... 10/9c

Resolved

 – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 00:52, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

I don't get the time thing at all for TV shows. I know what 10/9c means because I can Google that, and everyone gives the same answer: 10 eastern time / 9 central time. But what does it mean for mountain and pacific times? How come TV commercials don't give the time for these zones? I'd love to think that 10/9c meant 8 (mountain)/7 (pacific), but it's not even remotely close. Why the confusing time "code"? – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 23:42, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

That was discussed here some months back. Generally shows in Pacific Time Zone are at the same local time as shows in the Eastern Time Zone. Of course, if it's 10 Pacific time, it's by then 1:00 a.m. Eastern, but that doesn't matter. In the Mountain Time Zone, though, some stations use the Eastern Zone approach (i.e. 10 local) while some use the Central Zone approach (i.e. 9 local). There's more to it than that, but hopefully that's a fair summary. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:59, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

So if I'm in the mountain zone, then I really should disregard those numbers and just look it up on the web/TV? It's always frustrating. Anyway, thanks for responding. I promise I did an archive search, but what keywords are there for this sort of question? I used my subject line and found everything but what I was looking for. : ) – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 00:52, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Here's some related discussions on Wikipedia Reference desks: Where did the mountains go?, Primetime, and an old Google Answers question: TV times in Mountain time zone. The consensus seems to be "10 / 9 Central" means 10 Eastern and Pacific, 9 Central, and Mountain varies. TV networks typically have two feeds, Eastern and Western, the Western feed rebroadcasts the same shows 4 hours later. Stations in the Eastern and Central time zones show the Eastern feed live, so the show would be seen at 10 Eastern and 9 Central, that is, at the same time, but in different time zones. Stations in the Pacific time zone show the Western feed live, so the show is seen at 10 Pacific. According to Mountain Time Zone (the last sentence before the Contents), Mountain stations typically record the Eastern feed and play it one hour later, so the show is seen at 9 Mountain. But in the Google Answers post I mentioned above, it's suggested each Mountain time zone station decides on its own which feed they use and how much they delay it. --Bavi H (talk) 01:21, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Given that the Mountain time zone is mostly rural (the only real urban areas are Denver and Phoenix) the networks don't see any financial purpose in specially feeding their shows to that small amount of people. There is around 19 million people in the time zone, about the same population as the New York metropolitan area, which is estimated to be 19.8 million. To back up what others have said, both KCNC and KSL-TV show their respective national newscasts at 17:30 local time, and primetime begins at 19:00 local time -- exactly the same local times as Central. It is safe to assume for the most part that when Central Time is mentioned the show will be on at the same local time in the Mountain zone; a show on at "10/9 Central" will generally be shown at 21:00 Mountain as well.

Of course, there are exceptions. One that's on the top of my head: some viewers in Keloland (specifically viewers of KCLO in Rapid City, South Dakota) see programming one hour earlier than the rest of the Mountain zone, because KCLO, which is located in the Mountain Time part of South Dakota, shows programming simultaneously with KELO which is located in the Central Time part of South Dakota. In other words, the Eastern feed is shown live in this part of the Mountain Zone. For viewers of KCLO, the CBS Evening News comes on at 16:30 MT, and primetime begins at 18:00. I always wondered whether people complain about this, if they just got used to it, or if they don't know the program they watch every Monday at 19:30 is on at 20:30 or 21:30 local time elsewhere in the country. Xenon54 / talk / 01:58, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

These are fantastic answers, thank you so much. I checked out all the links above, and evidently Mountain time is at the whim of the stations. A lot of examples floating around; mine specifically was the new South Park episode, which shows at 10/9 central, but instead of being at 8 here (mountain time), it's on at 11. You guys have more than cleared up the confusion for me, and I've asked this question on several boards over the last few months. That the mountain region is 6% of 48-state population is pretty fascinating, and how that affects the delay in broadcasting is very interesting indeed. – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 02:59, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

April 15

FM radio in Japan

Why aren't there any FM radio stations with a frequency higher than 90 MHz in Japan? --84.61.146.104 (talk) 07:25, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Will there ever be any FM radio stations with a frequency higher than 90 MHz in Japan? --84.61.146.104 (talk) 07:48, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Is it allowed to import Western radios (which don't support frequencies below 87.5 MHz) into Japan? --84.61.146.104 (talk) 07:50, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Is it allowed to import Japanese radios (which don't support frequencies above 90 MHz) into the European Union? --84.61.146.104 (talk) 07:53, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Is it allowed to import Japanese radios (which don't support frequencies above 90 MHz) into the United States? --84.61.146.104 (talk) 07:53, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

see FM_band#Japanese_bandplan which answers some of these questions. Nanonic (talk) 08:09, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

By 'radios', do you mean receivers or transmitters? I can think of no reason why one would not be allowed to import any receiver of any capability, given that it can have no actively deleterious effects on others (like broadcasting on a reserved frequency), still less one not capable of receiving some available transmissions in an area, which your question seems to imply. One might not however want to commercially import into an area equipment not best suited to receiving the broadcasts there. Most countries seem to have discontinued the requirement for a licence to (just) receive radio (only) broadcasts, though our article Television licence suggests that a few may still retain it.

Although there might be some transmissions (e.g. Police), and therefore some frequency bands, that some in authority would prefer not be monitored, in practice it is impractical in the absence of a Police State to forbid equipment with this capability, since it is comparatively easy to construct/adapt. It might well, however, be an offense to disclose what you hear on some frequencies to a third party, as for Police transmissions in the UK, for example.

If you meant transmitters, then again ease of construction/adaptation would make such an equipment ban impractical. What would, and for some frequencies is, illicit is actual transmission on certain frequencies without a licence (since one might pre-empt a frequency licenced to someone else, block emergency transmissions, etc).

That said, in our current state of terrorist-induced official paranoia, it may be that various governments have recently snuck in new laws without my noticing, so further input is welcome! 87.81.230.195 (talk) 11:31, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Lady Gaga's companions

Who are the "mature" gentlemen with Lady Gaga in image number 5 here? http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/mVtemSUeTx2/Lady+Gaga+at+Buddah+Bar/KEBhrJiYIwN/Lady+Gaga They look rather old and scruffily dressed for bodyguards. I'm wondering if they are her managers or agents. One of them is also in the Lady Gaga Leaves Il Bottaccio set of photos. 92.29.104.157 (talk) 11:15, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

I think they are in fact her bodyguards. See The Sun. ---Sluzzelin talk 11:23, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

The Riftwar Saga

Have any of Raymond E. Feist's books been made into movies or are there any plans to do so? Magician or A Darkness at Sethanon —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.172.58.82 (talk) 15:26, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

(Bluelinks in above q fixed) The answer would appear to be no; none of Mr Feist's books have been filmed, although there have been comic book versions and at least two computer games based on his locations and characters. You can find more information on his official website here, and there's an onsite forum you can join where fans will probably have more information about any films and other derivative works if you ask them. Karenjc 17:49, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Futurama intro (re-asking)

I didn't recieve an answer last time, and I'm putting this down to the lateness at which I posted, so I'm asking again. Which episode of Futurama has on the screen before Leela crashes into it the music video to Psyche Rock?--Editor510 ^{drop us a line, mate} 16:14, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Well,you can find a list of screenshots of the bilboard in each episode here[6]. At a glance, I can't see any of them featuring the video. However, presumably you are aware that the theme tune is based heavily on Psyche Rock. 129.234.53.144 (talk) 17:08, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes...and I'm sure one episode shows it. Thank you anyway!--Editor510 ^{drop us a line, mate} 18:18, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Play him off, keyboard cat

In the YouTube meme from a year ago, "Play him off, keyboard cat" (search for it on YouTube if you need the clip; I won't link to any of the videos because they are probably mostly copyvios), what is the music ditty on the organ that the cat plays? Comet Tuttle (talk) 20:12, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

WHAAOE, Keyboard Cat, but it doesn't list the tune. I found several videos to use the keyboard cat theme, and it doesn't sound like anything except "nondescript upbeat keyboard tune". It could have been written on the spot by the inventor of the meme or the producer of the video. --Jayron32 20:22, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Shouldn't they have used Kitten on the keys ? --Sussexonian (talk) 20:33, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Or the Cat's Fugue? -- 202.142.129.66 (talk) 04:49, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

In any event, an improvement to what I got when putting "cat" + "piano" in the search box. No lolcats involved. Ouch! ---Sluzzelin talk 05:02, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm embarassed to not have found Keyboard Cat myself; I lamely attribute this to my impression that Internet memes are usually deleted at AFD here. Thanks for the article link, and ideas on the tune, if it's something beyond what Jayron32 suggested, are still welcome. Comet Tuttle (talk) 05:08, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Good interview with Charlie Schmidt, creator of the original 1984 cat footage. [7] In this interview, Schmidt says he is the composer of music. Also see Schmidt's website and Keyboard Cat Church. Pepso2 (talk) 18:24, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

That settles it, thank you! I was surprised that it's (allegedly) a live recording of a finger-synched performance. I had assumed the sound had been dubbed afterwards. Comet Tuttle (talk) 19:02, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Also see iPad Keyboard Cat. Pepso2 (talk) 20:00, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

April 16

Occupations and musical preferences

Has any study ever found a significant correlation between occupations and musical preferences? -- Wavelength (talk) 00:36, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Does this answer your question? 24.189.90.68 (talk) 08:29, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it does. Thank you for that interesting information which shows that one has. -- Wavelength (talk) 16:24, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Fatboy Slim's Ya Mama video - how was it made?

I've wondered about this for awhile, I hope someone can help me! If you watch the video for Ya Mama, the actions of the people affected by the music often seem (at least to me) to be out of their control. For example, when the man is trying to paint his figurines in the beginning and his arm goes crazy - I have a hard time believing he could move it so erratically while keeping the rest of his body more or less still. Does anyone know how they filmed this video? The guy later on carrying eggs also seems to be a good example - it's like he's getting tossed around... 218.25.32.210 (talk) 01:59, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

My first speculation is that they have the actor in a wire-fu harness and are pulling his arm around with wires (and pulling all of him around, in the case of the egg guy); possibly in front of a greenscreen in some scenes and then possibly sped up a little and finally composited in front of the background. The greenscreen may not be necessary; I thought this would make it easier to speed up the egg guy so the extras in the background didn't have to walk around in slow motion during the shoot. I don't know if this video was shot by the same crew that did the famous Weapon of Choice video starring Christopher Walken, but in that video he had a harness and was swung all around with wires, so they're quite familiar with the technique. Comet Tuttle (talk) 05:04, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

I agree, looks like the use of wires. --Mr.98 (talk) 13:04, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Have a look at this video.91.109.213.226 (talk) 08:24, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Great link. It's at the 4 minute mark. Not even wires - more like a blue-wrapped pole, letting an offscreen grip shove the actor around mercilessly. Comet Tuttle (talk) 16:45, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

The Princess Bride - the quick sand special effect

Another thing I've always wondered - how did they manage the quicksand special effect in The Princess Bride? The best explanation I can come up with is there was a foot or so of sand held between two layers of rubber with a sliced opening, and the actor dives through them and emerges into an open area below. Adding lots of additional sand could conceal the details. Does anyone know for sure? 218.25.32.210 (talk) 02:02, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Or like this quicksand special effect, a staple of the Universal Studios theme park in Southern California. Comet Tuttle (talk) 03:01, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Music video I saw years ago...

Oh God...me again. Sorry, I'm trying to clear up all the mysteries of my life. Basically, years ago, when I was little, I was watching The Big Breakfast when a music video came on. It was the time period of this kind of avant-gardey music, the late 90's, so stuff like Moby was coming on. The music video I saw showed a grayscale image of a girl, possibly a child, but definitely female. As the music played, a tear rolled out of the girl's eye, but it was golden, as if it was honey. The liquid from her eye then dribbles down her face and into the corner of her mouth. Does this ring any bells for anyone who was older than me at the time? This has mystified me for a long time and it's about time I found out what it was!!--Editor510 ^{drop us a line, mate} 10:29, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

U2? Chevymontecarlo. 11:41, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Please specify.--Editor510 ^{drop us a line, mate} 11:44, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

It was just a guess, I thought it would be something from Boy War or October or something like that. I thought this because they were war/violence/sadness related and so a crying girl would be appropriate - that was the 80s so that might be a little old for a late 90's programme...it was just a guess too so that might not be accurate. Chevymontecarlo. 07:57, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

The Name Game -- is this a hoax?

"The record went to number 3 on the Billboard Hot 100, and number 4 on the magazine's R&B charts in 1965."

You gotta be kidding me. This is a hoax right? Article doesn't contain any citations. 207.237.228.236 (talk) 16:08, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

According to billboard, it never charted. -- kainaw™ 16:20, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

The Billboard website isn't reliable - it states that a lot of records/artists have never charted when they have. Google Books has a hit for Hit singles: top 20 charts from 1954 to the present day when searching for this - the content isn't viewable but it must have been a top 20 hit. This book confirms that it reached #3. See also this (result 2 shows it at #14 in the Hot R&B Singles chart for that week). So no, not a hoax. And don't trust the Billboard website when it states that something has never charted.--Michig (talk) 16:55, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

According to the book The Billboard Book of Top 40 Hits, by Joel Whitburn, (c) 1996, p.204, "The Name Game" by Shirley Ellis was on for 10 weeks starting January 9, 1965, and topped out at Number 3 - as the article says. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:51, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

I have no cite for this, so maybe it's just my perception or data-picking or something, but it seems like novelty songs were much more likely to hit the charts in the fifties and sixties. I wonder if there was a huge fad for novelty songs back then, or if they've changed the way the charts are calculated so that novelty songs don't show up as often. APL (talk) 04:22, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

It's certainly the case that novelty songs used to be much more popular in the 50s and 60s than now - and even earlier, the article I've linked to suggesting that they peaked in the 1920s through the 1940s. Times were simpler then! Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:48, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

PS:There is a good list of novelty songs, including "The Name Game" (#27), here. Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:19, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

April 17

Private Screenings

Does anyone know what is the name of the song that plays at the beginning and closing credits of the Turner Classic Movies program Private Screenings? 24.189.90.68 (talk) 04:03, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Random Song Title 2

Sorry to be asking for another song title, but what's the name of the song that has several unique phrases, notably "uno dos tres cuatro cinco cinco seis"? I think it's by The Offspring, correct me if I'm wrong. What's it called? 2D Backfire Master ^{sweet emotion} 04:08, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

If You put "uno dos tres cuatro cinco cinco seis" "the offspring" into google (The quote marks force google to search for that exact phrase, not just the words.) you get a whole bunch of web sites with lyrics for the song "Pretty Fly (For a White Guy)" APL (talk) 04:15, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

We have an article. Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:03, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Happy Birthday to You as a non-recorded performance

According to the article, anyone singing "Happy Birthday" is singing it illegally. This isn't news, of course. But here's what I was wondering. Weird Al Yankovic never received permission to release (for example) "Snack All Night" (Black or White by Michael Jackson), and yet he performs it regularly at concerts. The recording and distribution of this song is illegal (mechanical rights haven't been paid), but him performing it is not (as far as I understand it). So as long as "Happy Birthday" isn't being recorded during a birthday party, how is singing it illegal? If it really were illegal, then singing along with a popular song in the car would rake in trillions for recording artists and their studios! Was not able to find this exact question in the archives/talk page – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 06:28, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

I didn't think the copyright lasted that long, WB must have renewed it...I think it's only illegal if no royalties are paid after a public performance of it - a car or a house would be a private performance and so no royalties need to be paid, although if it was played on national radio (For example Radio 1 here in the UK) royalties would have to be paid for it. Sorry if I'd already said something you've said already...I just realised my reply didn't get you anywhere! :) Chevymontecarlo. 07:53, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Public performance, even a live performance, is restricted by US Copyright law (See US Copyright law#Exclusive rights). However parody is an accepted category of fair use. I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice, but my understanding is that, as a purveyor of parody, Weird Al would have a legal right to record & distribute his songs, even if he does not receive permission from the original copyright holders. The reason he restricts recordings to where permission has been obtained is not due to legal restrictions, but is done simply as a courtesy to other recording artists. A verbatim rendition of "Happy Birthday" in your example would not fall under the parody class of fair use. Singing along in your car would likely be considered a "private performance", but singing to a group of 10 year olds might be considered "public" enough. (Note that there is a compulsory license/mechanical license of songs for the purposes of a cover version - you have to pay, but the copyright holders cannot normally restrict you from performing it.) As a final note, while "Happy Birthday to You" is still under copyright in the US, the song "Good Morning to All", which is equivalent musically, is under the public domain. -- 174.24.208.192 (talk) 08:07, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Oh, the parody fair use thing... I'd forgotten! Okay that makes perfect sense. So mechanical licenses aside, a public performance of a song, even non-recorded, requires monetary compensation then, it sounds like. I still don't get the reason why someone can slap new lyrics to "Good Morning to All" and suddenly copyright the piece as a whole, but perhaps that's beyond the scope of my original question. Thank you both for your responses! I'll keep it open another day or so in case anyone else wishes to chime in. – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 08:11, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

This would be called a derivative work and the new elements of such a work are newly copyrighted by the new elements' author. Any copyrighted older elements upon which the work is based remain copyrighted by the original author. Anyway, our article Happy Birthday to You mentions one law professor who cited various problems with the copyright and has claimed, "It is almost certainly no longer under copyright". Nobody has challenged WB in court on this point yet. Comet Tuttle (talk) 16:26, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

That song is so well-known and universally used that if its alleged copyright holder actually did try to sue someone, especially an ordinary family, the avalanche of negative publicity would hurt them far worse than any "royalty" they might expect to gain. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:05, 17 April 2010 (UTC)