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July 8

Colusa Ca Population

2010The 2010 United States Census[3] reported that Colusa had a population of 5,971. The population density was 3,255.3 people per square mile (1,256.9/km²). The racial makeup of Colusa was 3,944 (66.1%) White, 54 (0.9%) African American, 107 (1.8%) Native American, 80 (1.3%) Asian, 28 (0.5%) Pacific Islander, 1,510 (25.3%) from other races, and 248 (4.2%) from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 3,128 persons (52.4%).

152%  ?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.203.131.226 (talk) 01:34, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

I followed the link to the government census page and the numbers don't match what's in the article. It says the total population was 21,419, for one thing. 13,854 (64.7%) white, 195 (0.9%) black, etc. User:Carlossuarez46 added the info; maybe he's using a different definition than what we think he is. Why not drop him a note on his talk page? Incidentally, the talk page of the article is usually the best place to bring these types of concerns. Matt Deres (talk) 03:03, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, I think my numbers are for the county rather than the city (county seat). The numbers are still off. Here's the numbers for the city:

RACE Total population 5,971 100.0 One Race 5,723 95.8 White 3,944 66.1 Black or African American 54 0.9 American Indian and Alaska Native 107 1.8 Asian 80 1.3 Asian Indian 27 0.5 Chinese 12 0.2 Filipino 18 0.3 Japanese 10 0.2 Korean 3 0.1 Vietnamese 4 0.1 Other Asian [1] 6 0.1 Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander 28 0.5 Native Hawaiian 3 0.1 Guamanian or Chamorro 2 0.0 Samoan 0 0.0 Other Pacific Islander [2] 23 0.4 Some Other Race 1,510 25.3 Two or More Races 248 4.2 White; American Indian and Alaska Native [3] 47 0.8 White; Asian [3] 18 0.3 White; Black or African American [3] 10 0.2 White; Some Other Race [3] 116 1.9 The number of Pacific Islanders is way out of whack. Perhaps others are as well. Matt Deres (talk) 03:09, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Actually, the numbers on race add up to 100% (or perhaps slightly more, due to rounding). The "52.4% Hispanic," however, is not factored into that, since the U.S. Census Bureau regards Hispanic as a national origin not a race. To wit, they may be of any race. Pine (talk) 05:43, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes, and believe it or not, there are even Asian Hispanics. StuRat (talk) 09:22, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Creating a graphic image of a military unit

I'd like to create the shoulder sleeve insignia for the 30th ADA Brigade, as none exists. How do I get started?--Shovonma17 (talk) 04:19, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Brainstorm some ideas for what they might like in it. Do they have a motto or a nickname ? Where did they see action ? Maybe those might give you an idea. Then I'd sketch it out, and finally draw it on the computer. StuRat (talk) 04:35, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

If this is their website: [1], I see several symbols used there, like the fleur-de-lis, symbolizing service in France, and arrows, symbolizing their motto "Always on target". Other symbols are a lion rampant and lightning bolts. Perhaps you could expand on the "Always on target" motto by having an arrow hitting a bull's eye on a target ? StuRat (talk) 04:49, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

The three arrows on the red background is the shoulder sleeve insignia. [2] I suspect the question is actually "how do I create an svg version of this insignia for use on Wikipedia", rather than "how do I invent a new insignia". Shovonma, try WP:Graphics. FiggyBee (talk) 08:44, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

If so, I'd start by doing a screen grab of the image here: [3]. And it doesn't have to be an SVG image, as Wikipedia accepts many formats, such as GIF and JPEG. StuRat (talk) 09:16, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

25th K.R.V Band

My husband's Great Grandfather was presented an ebony band master's baton in 1876, the inscription on the baton reads:- 'Presented by the 25th K.R.V Band to Mr.E.Sayers, 27th May 1876'. The accompanying letter shows Mr.E.Sayers' address as 3, Gibson Street, East Greenwich, London. We know that this was his address and that he was a musician, from the 1881 Census return. What we don't know is, who or what were the 25th K.R.V Band and why he received the baton. Was it a military band? Thanks for your help. P.Sayers. Patsayers (talk) 06:59, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Greetings Pat, I think your husband's great grandfather may have been part of the Kent Rifle Volunteer Corps, I have no knowledge of them but the letters and dates fit very nicely if you check this site. His particular corp isn't listed there but it looks like a good place to start. Good luck. Richard Avery (talk) 07:18, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

See Volunteer Force (Great Britain) for some general context. Alansplodge (talk) 12:01, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Some more information about the Kent Rifle Volunteer Corps in this forum. Alansplodge (talk) 01:20, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

ENGINEERING COLLEGES

PLEASE tell me how to know the top ten engineering colleges with mechanical as the branch in karnataka — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vijay ssbj (talk • contribs) 09:07, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

I Googled "top 10 karnataka engineering colleges mechanical" and found several sites offering rankings based on a variety of criteria. This could be a good first step for you. - Karenjc 21:18, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Bikini vs. underwear

Tipical summer question here. Why seeing a women in her underwear is more "naughty" than seeing the same wome in bikini when both cover the same. By the way, I have googled it and all comentary about the question makes it look like that this is just a woman concern. I, for one, feel more aroused seeing a woman in underwear than in bikini, even if I couldn´t explain why (although to be fair I have only seen one friend in both bikini and underwear, without, ahem, getting any action)

Well I´m interested to know if the deskers can answer this riddle of the ages.85.55.202.61 (talk) 11:49, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Does it have to do with the fact that there are time that it is perfectly acceptable to wear a bikini in public (like in the beach) because it's the suitable attire, while only wearing underwear in public is frowned upon? Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 12:47, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Exactly. Undewear is not meant to be seen by anyone except the wearer (and her significant other, if she has one). --Viennese Waltz 13:31, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

It's the cultural context. Since underwear are defined as naughty, we view them that way. The same is true of bare breasts, which are seen as ho-hum in some cultures. In some Islamic cultures, a woman's face is seen as "naughty", so needs to be hidden from unrelated males. In Victorian times, a woman's ankles were considered naughty, and thus men would get aroused when they saw them. StuRat (talk) 17:13, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

I think that more than half of the young women here in Romania go topless at the beach, but they wouldn't show off their bare breasts in any other situation in public... 109.97.188.181 (talk) 17:33, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

There's also "situational normality". For example, men who might be comfortable naked or showering together in a locker room wouldn't normally choose to shower together at home. StuRat (talk) 20:41, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

However, note that a bikini may be made out of thicker fabric, designed to hide the vulva, especially when wet, and may have padding in that specific area, while underwear may not, since they figure the clothes worn over them will serve that purpose. StuRat (talk) 17:20, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Underwear is known by everyone to serve several absorption functions (go click it!) over time that a bikini displayed for a few sunny hours is neither expected to do, nor to remind the viewer of. DriveByWire (talk) 23:06, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Who was it that made the joke about people who live in those african tribes where people barely wear a loin cloth and a nose ring? A night out at the strippers would include a lady getting on stage and removing her nose ring, to the braying of the male crowd: "Whoa! Check out the top lip on that one!".. Vespine (talk) 02:09, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Relevance? DriveByWire (talk) 09:26, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

It's describing how what is and isn't naughty is culturally specific, which is relevant to this Q. StuRat (talk) 18:53, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

And it's relatively smirk-worthy which is never a bad thing...... gazhiley 13:45, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Old telephone box, UK

What were button A and button B for? Kittybrewster ☎ 13:04, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

You had to put your coin in before you dialled the number. If the person answered, you pressed button A to speak. If there was no answer, you pressed button B and you got your coin back. --Viennese Waltz 13:34, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

And they didn't think to label them "talk" and "refund" ? (The labels could point to the buttons, if not enough room to write that on the buttons directly.) StuRat (talk) 17:07, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Here is what Kittybrewster is talking about. I never met anyone who couldn't understand the button A and button B system. Like making jam sandwiches or a cup of tea, when you've seen it done once you can repeat the procedure Richard Avery (talk) 18:44, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Why should they waste money on superfluous letters, when A and B would work perfectly well? Don't you know there's a war on? Or there was when this machine was designed (I think)... --TammyMoet (talk) 18:51, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

The instructions were normally written on a sheet attached to the wooden wallboard, and as the phones were exported to non-English speaking countries and as phone call charges went up, the instructions could be easily localized and altered. I used those phones as a youngster in the 1970s and while I needed to stand on something to reach the phone (really), they just didn't need complicated instructions. They were being phased out in Ireland in public phone boxes by the late 1970s, but I remember seeing them well into the 80s still in use in hotels and pubs in places off the beaten track. Now off to quietly have a mid-life crisis FlowerpotmaN·(t) 19:49, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

A million schoolboys with excess time and optimism pushed that "B" button a million times in the hope that a previous caller might have forgotten some money in the box. Once would be enough and the button was slow to return. Little Britain's Las Vegas. DriveByWire (talk) 22:53, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. I remember my father answering the telephone and saying "press button A". Kittybrewster ☎ 23:13, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Well, that explains all the calls I made in London where someone answered and then couldn't seem to hear me. And all the coins I lost, too. "Furriners" are not likely to know this system; I have never come across it anywhere else, and certainly not in North America. The phone booths I was using had no instructions. You can't learn by watching once if you have never had an opportunity to watch. Bielle (talk)

Isn't half the fun of travel all about experiencing unexpected and baffling practices? -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 00:42, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

We're talking about a long time ago though. They had already gone from London in my 1960s childhood, but I found one in rural Wales on a school trip in 1971 and the nice operator lady told me which button to press. Alansplodge (talk) 01:05, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

I last made a call from one in 1987 in a telephone box on a minor road to Farr near Bettyhill, which is about as out of the way as it gets in the UK - I hadn't used one for at least 20 years at the time. Mikenorton (talk) 21:11, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

There's a picture of one here and here. Alansplodge (talk) 01:32, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

And more information here. Apparently there were 20,000 of them in Australia too. Introduced in 1925, it was replaced by the "Coin Telephone No.1" in 1966 (told you so!). Alansplodge (talk) 01:37, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Oh yes, I remember them well. I'd have said they lingered some time past 1966, but don't hold me to that. (1966 was an excellent year for Wikipedia, btw.) -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 01:47, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

I think "started to be replaced" would be more accurate. I suspect that London was first in the queue. Alansplodge (talk) 00:57, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

It's not too late to rescue an old telephone box. They were warm refuges on windy days and little islands of light in remote locations at night. I think they used a special lamp bulb to discourage theft. The pictures don't show the telephone directories that hung beside the money box. The money box was robust against vandals, but the handset cord and occasionally one of the many window panes were vulnerable to their malicious attention. Boxes often smelled of urine and/or the previous caller. DriveByWire (talk) 14:10, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

When I first moved from province BC to Alberta I put .25 in to make a phone call. No luck after a few tries. I angrily dialed 0 to ask what the problem was and she said phone booths were .35 in Alberta. Motto is: Read the instructions before you get really frustrated.--Canoe1967 (talk) 16:38, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

My "Engology" entry has been deleted. Why?

Why has me "Engology" entry been deleted??? Fintan Lynch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Engology (talk • contribs) 16:50, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Your article was speedy deleted and made into a redirect to engineering technology. Here's the final state of your article prior to deletion: [4]. The notice at the top explains the reasoning. Here's the edit history for the article: [5]. StuRat (talk) 17:01, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

The article was not deleted, only redirected. You can see why by looking at this older version, dating to June 21. Basically the complaint was that no evidence was provided that the term is actually used by anybody in a notable way. Looie496 (talk) 17:04, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Incidentally, Fintan Lynch appears to own engology.com. —Tamfang (talk) 22:51, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Quick fix for error on Millikan High School

The wiki for Millikan High School in Long Beach, CA has the correct information in body, but not at the top where the location is listed as a hot link right under the title. I don't know how to correct this and don't want to learn wiki language for this. I tried to edit, but I don't see where this link can be edited online.

The body of the article states Long Beach, CA, which is correct, but the link immediately under the title states Longbeach, Florida which is INCORRECT.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/RA-Millikan/106200209418819#!/pages/Millikan-High-School/112125525467170?sk=wiki — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.251.113.70 (talk) 19:03, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

We have no control over how Facebook reuses our content. Our article on Millikan High School has it in the correct location; Facebook's confusion of Long Beach, California, with a town in Florida is their error. You'll need to contact Facebook to see if you can get them to fix the error. Deor (talk) 19:55, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Ooh Wiki - Ms. Bright Sondia that is is back hopefully in business

Not a request Wikipedia editors can help with
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
July 8 2012 Dear Wikipedia Management and Technology Department, Good Afternoon and I pray that where ever you all are - things are going to look great, grand, and gracious this end of fiscal year; plus a travel to some place in Slovakia for a new role of Global Knowledge. Question A1: How can I purchase Wiki Leaks and can you find the owner if he is still not in jail? Question B2: Is it possible to derive a code from C++ or D-programming which is a decoder to stop Tagging, Misconception of Password Cracker, and get Amazon back on my side for technology books that are reasonable and not too costly.. Yes I did apply for a position but did not here back from them. I have a new account with hotmail now so comcast.net is not around. If you would like to take my position as Board of Trustees Member just ask them. All my emails were confiscated not by me but hackers which were not Ethical. Military - www.wikipedia.gov have you thought about that? Question C3: Is Google online for www.google.mil or better yet investment with me on Throat Surgery and Technology for Better Hearing Aids for the Deaf and Mute? Question D4: My Coding Strategy only given to you with patent and intellectual property rights. Begin; If 0:00 = Batchfile for recievalbes; Then Balance AND "(,)" OR "(,)" NOR petty cash = "($)" 10"(,)"000.00 on United States Market; VAR = VAT #Virtual or Value Added Tax# "(=)" .21 "(%)"; #percent# INT = Total Quotient; INT = Total Exponent; INT = VAT; END; A McDonalds Code - Interview hopefully Tuesday in town here - Maryland now. How does it fit in? My persistence to learn another language in coding and foreign for investments outside of Intellectual Property based on Technology Stocks for DNA Sequencing in Pharmaceuticals and Wikipedia Notations on Information on Research and Development. Me. yes now Bipolar after I left in 2000. L4 needs to be taken out I believe. Take Care and Good luck - use my email or call I can't give that out but it's prepaid. Sondia Remmielehkun Bright (Naomi Orion Justine Eastman Carrington) the real name. (Shh) Ha aha I don't know how secret but it's time for revealing. Any Auctions. Get me back or help me save my back. (:-p) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sbright426 (talk • contribs) 20:38, 8 July 2012 (UTC) Wow. 109.97.188.181 (talk) 21:26, 8 July 2012 (UTC) I would hat this, but someone might think I was joking, or insist it wasn't a request for medical advice. Then there would be at least three new threads triggered.... μηδείς (talk) 21:34, 8 July 2012 (UTC) Medical? He mentions 'jail'. So shouldn't that be - not asking legal advice? --Aspro (talk) 22:47, 8 July 2012 (UTC) As in mental health. μηδείς (talk) 00:19, 9 July 2012 (UTC) On seconds thoughts... maybe it's his homework questions. I once had a tutor that set these sort of mind expanding problems. --Aspro (talk) 22:54, 8 July 2012 (UTC) The answer to these, and all your future questions, can be found at http://www.timecube.com. StuRat (talk) 23:26, 8 July 2012 (UTC) Wow, he really does go on and on and on, doesn't he. Like the peace of God, he "passeth all understanding". -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ [your turn] 00:16, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

There is a page for DYK blurbs that get a record number of hits. Is there some sort of similar BotRD page we can archive this question to? μηδείς (talk) 04:49, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

July 9

Reasonable or fallacious (and if the latter, what's the name of the formal fallacy?)

To assume, if not definitely, then almost certainly, if an idea pops into your head, that if it were a good or really valuable and workable idea, someone else has already or would already do it, and therefore pursue it no further. Statistically, this seems like a very sound assumption that would save the vast majority of people a lot of time and effort, given the unlikelihood of your idea being a great thing nobody has thought of, given the sheer quantity of H. sapiens who have been and are now, and the percentage of those that have made a world-changing idea. Therefore make zero effort to try to think of world changing ideas that would help on a worldwide scale. 69.243.220.115 (talk) 01:22, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Analogously, that is why I never get out of bed in the morning. Because free will is an illusion, and I will be forced to get out of bed by reality whether I want to or not. μηδείς (talk) 01:25, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Douglas Hofstadter, in the essays that form chapters 30 and 31 of Metamagical Themas, calls this superrationality or renormalized rationality. Looie496 (talk) 01:42, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Superrationality is the article about that, but Looie should have understood something wrong since the concept doesn't relate to the OP's question. OsmanRF34 (talk) 12:45, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Maybe Base rate fallacy? You are only looking at "number of humans who have made a difference" / "the number of humans", this fraction is undoubtedly miniscule. However you are neglecting the other, arguably more important part of the statistic, namely out of "the number of humans who changed the world and DIDN'T make zero effort" / "number of people who changed the world" is probably close to 1 (expressed as probablility, or 100% as a percentage). Vespine (talk) 02:36, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

I don't think this is a nameable formal fallacy. The OP describes a self doubting state of mind that could arise from experience of past failure to assert one's inventions and/or inadequate knowledge of the actual state of the relevant art. Unimaginative managers can have this effect on smarter workers who will feel constricted by their NIH attitude. DriveByWire (talk) 03:16, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

From the articles Not invented here and Invented here, it looks like NIH's meaning is "we only use what we invented" while IH actually means "we only use what others have invented." 20.137.18.53 (talk) 13:01, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

If you really did have an exceptional idea, doubting it seems like a case of the Dunning–Kruger effect; you assume that other people have the same high ability that you do. In any case, even if your idea isn't totally original doesn't mean it's not worth pursuing; perhaps there are reasons why your idea hasn't been put into practice that you haven't thought of, or which you have thought of and can overcome. We are fortunate that we live in an age where idly researching vague notions is so easy! FiggyBee (talk) 03:42, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Actually, I think Vespine has the answer. μηδείς (talk) 03:59, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm not a statistician and only recently got interested in this topic but I do think I'm on the right track. It's not quite the base rate fallacy as explained in our article, which is more specifically about sensitivity and specificity in "tests".. Another fallacy based on the base rate fallacy is Prosecutor's fallacy which again, isn't qite the same thing as the op describes, but pretty close. It describes how evidence was presented in the OJ trial that "only 1 in 7500 people who bash their wife go on to kill them", so the fact that OJ bashed his wife can't be used as evidence, that's the logic they used. However, 8 out of 9 wives who are murdered by their husbands ARE previously bashed by them, so it is in fact very relavant to the trial. Similarly you could say only 1 out of 10 Million people change the world so it's pointless, BUT 9 out of 10 of people who DO change the world DO make an effort (hypothetically). Ignoring that is the base rate fallacy. I'm fairly sure. Vespine (talk) 06:01, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes, it is the Defender's fallacy, actually, which is a complicated misapplication of base rates. μηδείς (talk) 07:17, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

OJ bashed his wife, "8 out of 9 wives who are murdered by their husbands ARE previously bashed by them", therefore OJ murdered his wife. Sounds like a fairly straightforward case of affirming the consequent to me. However, it is not actually what Gigerenzer said, according to the prosecutor's fallacy article. His actual argument is "the chances that a batterer actually murdered his partner, given that she has been killed, is about 8 in 9". FiggyBee (talk) 08:48, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

No one said "therefore OJ murdered his wife" except you. The point made was more subtle and relevant and the same both here and in the article. μηδείς (talk) 16:52, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

That was what the prosecutor in his trial was trying to prove, wasn't it? My point (although not that well expressed) is that Gigerenzer said "the chances that a batterer actually murdered his partner, given that she has been killed, is about 8 in 9", which boils down logically to "If you bashed her, you probably killed her". What Vespine said is "8 out of 9 wives who are murdered by their husbands ARE previously bashed by them", which boils down to "If you killed her, you probably bashed her". The implication is reversed, and only the first would be sound logical evidence. FiggyBee (talk) 09:08, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

It seems to me FiggyBee has a point although not that well expressed. Since it hadn't been established beyond a reasonable doubt that the wife was killed by her husband, the percentage of husbands who killed their wives that bashed them isn't that important. What is perhaps the most relevent in deciding if the bashing is relevant is to establish what percentage of married women who were murdered in similar circumstances were killed by husbands who had bashed them.edit: women who had previously been bashed by their husbands or partners and were later murdered in similar circumstances were murded by the person who bashed them. (Of course how you establish similar circumstances is a very open question.) If the percentage is small, then the fact he bashed his wive wasn't particularly relevent in deciding whether or not her murdered her. (I presume it was accepted he bashed her, I'm not familiar with the details of the case.) Or to put it a different way, since they were trying to establish whether or not her murdered her, the fact that if he had murdered her there's a good chance he would have bashed her and he did bash her isn't that significant. In fact I would go as far as to say the statistic used by the defence is more significant edit: since it tells us more about the usefulness of the fact he bashed his wife in establishing his guilt for the murder. Nil Einne (talk) 19:38, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

I think the problem is that the base rate (number of women murdered by their husbands) is ALREADY very low, so using probability to imply innocence is irrelevant at best, and misleading at worst. Imagine at another murder trial, the defence didn't mention bashing at all and isntead said that only 1 in 10,000 people commit murder, so the accused couldn't have done it because the chance they did is only 1 in 10,000! That obviously can NOT be logically used as a defence at a murder trial, but it's essentially the same thing as what the defence tried at the OJ trial. The fact that murder is a rare event to begin with is not relavant, just as the fact that men who bash their wives rarely go on to kill them. However the fact that 8 out of 9 murderers do bash their wives previous to killing them IS relavant, given that a murder has actually taken place. Put it this way: Given 2 suspects, one that bashed his wife an one that didn't, the one that did is 8 times more likely to have been the murderer. It's obviously NOT a bull's eye that conclusivley proves they did it, but a case often doesn't have such a bull's eye argument and relies instead on these lines of evidence converging until it can be proved beyond reasonable doubt. Vespine (talk) 23:51, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Only if they are married to the same dead woman, of course. μηδείς (talk) 01:51, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes, it's purely a hypothetical example. Another way of putting it might be, the defence said only 1 out of 7500 men who batter their wives go on to kill them, BUT they don't mention that only one out of 67,000 men who DON'T batter their wives go on to kill them (the number is a rough guess). Vespine (talk) 01:59, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

The suspect thing is largely irrelevant, and there's no reason to think of only 2 suspects. In other words, the fact that he was 8 times more likely to have been the murderer then some other random person in the hypothetical example is largely irrelevent (as there are a lot more random people then OJ Simpsons).(Ignore this may have confused self and too tired to think about it.) The 67k figure is likewise irrelevent since as I said before, what they were trying to establish that he murdered his wife, not that he bashed her.

Again, I don't know the details of the case, and I'm not that interested to read but you seem to be missing the point (with your 1 in 10k comments etc) which was I presume not to establish innocence, but to demonstrate the fact he bashed his wife should not play much, if any of a factor in determing his guilt beyond a resonable doubt. I presume either the prosecution entered the evidence of domestic violence in to play or wanted to, hence the statistics the defence used to demonstrate the bashing was largely irrelevent in establishing guilt beyond a resonable doubt. Definitely once the defence brought up such a statistic, there was nothing I presume stopping the prosecution pointing out it didn't establish innocence, simply suggested they shouldn't read too much in to the bashing if they felt the jury may be mislead by it in that way.

As I mentioned, I'm not saying the defences statistics are great, but they are far better then anything you or μηδείς have brought up. As I also mentioned the much more significant factor was the percentage of "women who had previously been bashed by their husbands or partners and were later murdered in similar circumstances (edit: and) their murdered was the person who bashed them". The fact the prosecution didn't I presume bring up these figures either means they didn't have them, or they further demonstrated the bashing was largely irrelevent in establishing guilt beyond a resonable doubt so the prosecution had no desire for them to be known. (The defence of course had no reason to bring them up if they felt they could confuse the jury with other statistics.)

To put it a different way, establishing guilt beyond a resonable doubt is actually a very high standard. Certain details are so meaningless in a wider context yet are easily over-relied on by juries in establishing guilty beyond a resonable doubt, hence a number of countries who still rely entirely on juries greatly limit the introduction of evidence likely to be unduly prejudicial, from the statistics presented so far, it sounds like the bashing could potentially be one such statistic (particularly in the absence of a wider context).

P.S. One of the problems is that for readers, we're often more interested in whether someone commited a crime or not. So we tend to look at things from that POV. And forget juries are never (supposed) to look at it from that POV, instead only decide whether they're convinced beyond a resonable doubt the person commited the crime of which they're accused according to the standards the law requires for such a crime.

The fact that OJ (allegedly?) bashed his wife may make him a nasty person, and may mean he was more likely to have been a murderer then a husband who didn't bash his wife, but it may not mean the bashing should be much, if any, of a factor in deciding that he was guilty beyond a resonable doubt of being his wife's murderer, which is all that should matter to the jury.

Remember the defence and prosecution aren't on the same footing. The prosecution is interested in proving guilt beyond a resonable doubt. Any competent defence, whatever they or their client may say isn't actually that interested in establishing innocence yet alone innocence beyond a resonable doubt (sure it's nice), only in showing the prosecution hasn't established guilt beyond a resonable, so anything they say should be read in this context, which may include demonstrating that the jury shouldn't read too much into an instance of bashing.

Nil Einne (talk) 17:55, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

I read the linked article and noticed it actually says "the chances that a batterer actually murdered his partner, given that she has been killed, is about 8 in 9 or approximately 90%" which is not what Vespine said and is far closer to the statistic which I said is what really mattered. The only thing it lacks is 'similar circumstances' which I included to acknowledge this is still fairly complicated since you could legitimate argue that other cases, e.g. where the killer killed his wife during a bout of domestic violence and didn't try to deny it either saying she deserved it or expressing regret are perhaps too dissimilar to be taken in to account in determined the statistic.

I haven't read the source but from the wording, it sounds like the author/s do understand why this statistics matters and is different from what Vespine suggested.

P.S. I just noticed FiggyBee also noted this above. I hope I don't offend anyone (nothing that this includes me as evidenced by the strikesouts) in saying this discussion IMO demonstrates why (IMO again) juries need to be molly-coddled so much.

Nil Einne (talk) 18:08, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Gaelic Football and marriage

I have a couple of questions

1. Why is Gaelic Football exclusively Irish? I am told that Scotland is a Gaelic country as well
2. Why is marrying close relatives so innapropriate? 212.183.128.73 (talk) 20:23, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

2) Closely related individuals have a higher chance of having children with dual recessive genetic disorders. They also tend to have exaggerated features (if parents are tall, the children are really tall, etc.), which can be good or bad. StuRat (talk) 20:44, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

1) The Gaelic Athletic Association defines itself as a native Irish organization and has (as far as I know) no grounds or offices outside Ireland. The article Gaelic football gives the sport's history which dates back over 300 years in Ireland, and it has been spread outside Ireland only by amateur players of the Irish diaspora. The Gaelic known in Scotland has deviated from Irish Gaelic and is spoken by only 1.2% of the population. Clearly the Scots would rather beat the English at their own game than import the Irish game. DriveByWire (talk) 21:37, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Of those hundreds of years of history, most of it comprises that rather ill-defined generic game simply called football (a hodge-podge of kicking, dribbling, carrying, throwing, scrumming, and punching). It wasn't until the 19th century that various formal codifications of that sport arose, which gave rise to the various codes of "football" that dominate today - rugby football in 1823, association football in 1948, Australian rules football (the most traditional adherent to the punching ethos) in 1859, and American football shortly thereafter. All drew lines between classes and nations which hadn't been so formally delimited until then. This was particularly the case for Gaelic football, which was formalised in around 1887 as a specific rejection of the British codes and a deliberate statement of Irishness. Ever since it's been very strongly associated with Irish identity and Irish nationalism: playing Gaelic football (and other Gaelic games) was tantamount to declaring you were Irish. Gaelic football was thus inextricably enmeshed with the torments of the Irish independence struggle (e.g. Bloody Sunday (1920)) and its own rules and practices (such as rule 27) meant it was unlikely to take off outside the community of people who identified as Irish. Until relatively recently Gaelic football made little attempt to evangelise itself outside Ireland and those of Irish extraction. Compare that to association football and to a lesser extent American football, which have tried very hard to spread their appeal. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 01:08, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Isn't Scotland Gaelic as well? Shouldn't it have Gaelic stuff like Gaelic Football too? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.183.128.152 (talk) 19:35, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Gaelic is not a single language - Irish Gaelic (Gaeilge) is different from Scots Gaelic - (Gàidhlig). So Scotland isn't "Gaelic as well": despite having languages with a common ancestor, and to some extent having cultural crossover, they are as separate as England and France. As for why there is no 'native' football game in Scotland, the game that would go on to become Gaelic Football in Ireland (Medieval football - which developed separately and in parallel throughout Europe) was called the Ba game in Scotland, and is still with us as Association football - the game invented on the playing fields of Eton and Harrow was influenced by Mob football games from across the UK, and the Scots were involved in the codification and playing from the outset - see History of Scottish football. Apart (as Finlay points out above) from the Irish having more desire for a game that was not invented by the British, the game in Ireland just took a different direction, that's all. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 19:53, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Why doesn't Scotland have its own version of Football?

Can't answer that. But Scotland and Ireland both have games that resemble what was at some stage codified as field hockey: Shinty and Hurling.--Shirt58 (talk) 09:44, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

To note a few things which may be relevent to the discussion, and to highlight and expand upon what others have already stated. First of all, Gaelic (and the closely related term "Celtic") refer to a somewhat broad group of related cultures. There has certainly been a history of attempts at a sort of Pan-Celticism, but these attempts haven't generally gotten very far, somewhat due to the physical seperation between the peoples. While there have been significant cultural exchanges, notably the development of the distinctive Scots-Irish culture, which a an ethnic group is somewhat distinct from the Scottish or the Irish. By-and-large, Scotland and Ireland diverged in their cultural development over history, despite having an ancient common culture. For a good parallel, consider that the English people evolved from the Anglo-Saxons; modern English don't, however, share a common culture with modern Saxons (central Germany). Also, consider that the relationship between Scotland and the U.K. is very different than that between Ireland and the U.K. It would not be entirely inaccurate to say that Scotland annexed England, as the merger of their crowns occured when a Scot, James I and VI, assumed the throne of England on the death of the Tudor line (a Welsh dynasty, not an English one, it should be noted); which would lead to the eventual Act of Union 1707. It was a relatively peaceful merger of the two formerly independent countries. Ireland, on the other hand, was essentially forcably annexed by the U.K., which has led to some bad feelings, and a greater tendency to form a distinctive Irish culture which is decidedly not British. Though Scottish Nationalism is a real thing, it is less of an issue, as many Scots think of themselves as British as well as Scottish. Few Irish would consider such an idea. Which is why Scotland readily adopted British football, as Scotland is British. Ireland, on the other hand, rather proudly is not, and thus has developed its own native game (though they do, also, play all three British versions (association, Rugby Union, and Rugby League) as well). To sum up: There is a distinctive Scottish culture, but Scottish culture is not so fiercely anti-British (as the Scottish are British, no less than Texans are American), while the Irish culture tends to be moreso, including the development of its own code of Football, which it fiercely protects. Don't get too hung up on the word Gaelic. --Jayron32 06:12, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

2) There is also the question of genetic diversity. From a species survival point of view, inbreeding makes a population less diverse and thus less robust. Karenjc 22:41, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

For question 2, please note that it is legal in the UK to marry your cousin. --TammyMoet (talk) 09:14, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Marrying close relatives is not necessarily 'inappropriate'. As cousin marriage points out, in some cultures it is extremely common. Genetic disorders aren't really the whole story - nowadays, due to the existence of contraception, lots of married couples choose not to have children (or adopt children or use donors), and most people are not so opposed to the idea of, say, haemophiliacs having children and passing on a genetic disorder. Social norm and disgust might be relevant. 130.88.73.65 (talk) 16:04, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Why is marrying your sibling illegal?

Is it illegal everywhere? It certainly hasn't been in the past. Sibling relationship says "John M. Goggin and William C. Sturtevant (1964) listed eight societies which generally allowed sibling marriage, and thirty-five societies where sibling marriage was permissible among the upper classes (nobility) only." The Ptolemaic dynasty is famous for having several examples of sibling marriage. 81.98.43.107 (talk) 21:40, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Algebraic chess notation in other alphabets

The article on algebraic chess notation does a fine job listing how the pieces are abbreviated in other languages. But it got me to wondering if the files on the board are always labeled with the Latin alphabet letters  a b c d e f g h . If a game were being recorded in Cyrillic, for example, in addition to changing the abbreviations for the pieces, would the files become  а б в г д е ж з ? Or in Greek, would  α β γ δ ε ζ η θ  be used?    → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 23:45, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

It would appear that in Russian the Latin script is still used (at least in this book, which appears to be an introduction to chess). Unfortunately the Russian Wikipedia is on strike today, so the thing I'd normally recommend (find some detailed en.wikipedia articles on chess minutiae and then compare against their Russian language equivalents) isn't available, today at least. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 00:19, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Eating my own dogfood and looking at Sicilian Defence it seems that Bulgarian, Chinese, and Japanese stick with Latin (bearing in mind that some non-en articles are incomplete translations from en, and so this isn't very strong evidence) but Hebrew does not. I've yet to find an Arabic or Farsi example that's instructive. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 00:28, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Dimitris Sisopoulos has coded a program to convert games from English to Greek chess σκάκι. I have not tried the program but it is free and Dimitris can be contacted with questions. DriveByWire (talk) 09:15, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

This chart shows quite a few languages that use their own script for the pieces. Not sure about the columns. --Dweller (talk) 11:07, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

The very last paragraph of sr:Шах#Шаховска нотација states that one can use either script for algebraic chess notation in Serbia, and that the Central Serbia Chess Frederation refereeing commission recommends the usage of the Cyrillic. Notice that in that case, the files (columns) on the board are labelled with the corresponding Cyrillic equivalents of the Latin letters A through H, that is, they are а б ц д е ф г х, and not а б в г д ђ е ж, which is the way the Serbian Cyrillic alphabetical order begins. In Russia, Bulgaria and other Cyrillic-using countries, files on the chessboard are never labelled with Cyrillic characters. --Theurgist (talk) 11:47, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Russian Wikipedia isn't on strike anymore, and its article on chess notation (шахматная нотация, šakhmatnaja notatsija) appears to use Latin letters consistently.  dalahäst ^{(let's talk!)} 03:56, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

July 10

JAN MATEJKO PRINT

My dad gave me a very old, very large, print of an JAN MATEJKO painting. It is in black and white, it almost looks like a sketch. I have searched, but cannot find any references to prints of his work.This print is of his battle. I hope you can help me because I don't know anything about prints, and this one is so old the paper is starting to disinegrate. HELP...Many thanks in advance... Eydie Teas — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.222.54.98 (talk) 05:09, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Prints of his works seem to be widely available from sites like this, this, and this. Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:40, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Internews Europe

Dear all,

I have checked the reference guidelines by wikipedia and do not know how I could further improve my entry Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Internews Europe . Could you be more clear on what I have done wrong? Shall I ask Internews Europe to get the rights to use their references?

With kind regards, Stoefferlh Stoefferlh (talk) 12:08, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

What is needed is independent reliable references. These could be newspapers, journals, TV shows, or reliable web sites. You ahve the right to use Internews Europe as a reference but no to copy their material verbatum. However that sort of link is not independent of the subject. Anybody else reading here is also welcome to improve the submission if you want to help out. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 12:22, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm not seeing much media attention. Perhaps it would be better to add a bit to Internews instead. Media development also has a paragraph about Internews Europe. Clarityfiend (talk) 18:06, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

The Life of the Bee

Has the book The Life of the Bee received any awards or accolades? There doesn't seem to be an article on it, so I will most likely write one eventually. Thanks in advance, Nathan2055^{talk - contribs} 20:07, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

We have an article on its author, Maurice Maeterlinck. As to whether the book is notable enough to merit an article, I'm not sure. AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:20, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

I was actually asking whether it had received any awards, that was a general comment about the article. --Nathan2055^{talk - contribs} 20:29, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Google doesn't seem to locate anything obvious. His Nobel Prize in Literature (1911) seems to have been awarded mostly for his dramatic works, rather than his essays. [6] The 'Selected criticism' section here [7] might possibly lead to useful sources. Otherwise, I suspect you'll have to resort to old-fashioned pre-internet research methods - looking through literary magazines of the period etc. Meanwhile, The Life of the Bee itself (as translated by Alfred Sutro) is available online here [8], and no doubt elsewhere as well - it is presumably out of copyright. Well worth a read, and what could compare with Maeterlinck's description of the fate of the drones, once they have fulfilled their fleeting biological role:

" Before the bewildered parasites are able to realize that the happy laws of the city have crumbled, dragging down in most inconceivable fashion their own plentiful destiny, each one is assailed by three or four envoys of justice; and these vigorously proceed to cut off his wings, saw through the petiole that connects the abdomen with the thorax, amputate the feverish antennæ, and seek an opening between the rings of his cuirass through which to pass their sword. No defense is attempted by the enormous, but unarmed, creatures; they try to escape, or oppose their mere bulk to the blows that rain down upon them. Forced on to their backs, with their relentless enemies clinging doggedly to them, they will use their powerful claws to shift them from side to side; or, turning on themselves, they will drag the whole group round and round in wild circles, which exhaustion soon brings to an end. And, in a very brief space, their appearance becomes so deplorable that pity, never far from justice in the depths of our heart, quickly returns, and would seek forgiveness, though vainly, of the stern workers who recognize only nature's harsh and profound laws. The wings of the wretched creatures are torn, their antennæ bitten, the segments of their legs wrenched off; and their magnificent eyes, mirrors once of the exuberant flowers, flashing back the blue light and the innocent pride of summer, now, softened by suffering, reflect only the anguish and distress of their end. Some succumb to their wounds, and are at once borne away to distant cemeteries by two or three of their executioners. Others, whose injuries are less, succeed in sheltering themselves in some corner, where they lie, all huddled together, surrounded by an inexorable guard, until they perish of want. Many will reach the door, and escape into space dragging their adversaries with them; but, toward evening, impelled by hunger and cold, they return in crowds to the entrance of the hive to beg for shelter. But there they encounter another pitiless guard. The next morning, before setting forth on their journey, the workers will clear the threshold, strewn with the corpses of the useless giants; and all recollection of the idle race disappear till the following spring".

AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:59, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

One small task for him. One great stride for Feminism. That is what the buzz is all about. DriveByWire (talk) 16:09, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

July 11

How do you exit out of your messaging sytem a Samsung cell phone?

How do you exit out of your messaging sytem a Samsung cell phone? Narwhalgal84 (talk) 03:44, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

press "end"? Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 03:46, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Blue-ray and DVD

What is difference between a DVD player and BlueRay player. Does a BlueRay player play standard DVD and CD as well ? Also, most DVD players, with time, slowly loose their ability to play all DVD/CDs, i.e. a small scratch on disk or a slight irregularity in disk symmetry is enough for them to give the dreaded verdict of "NO DISK". Can buying a BluRay player ( if they do play DVDs/CDs as well ) solve this headache ? 124.253.91.41 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 05:06, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

The main diff is that they use a blue laser, which can distinguish between smaller pits on the disk, allowing Blu-Ray to store more data. Every Blu-Ray player I've seen also plays DVDs and CDs, but you better read the box, just to make sure. There's no reason to think a Blu-Ray player will last any longer than a standard DVD player. I wouldn't buy a Blu-Ray player unless you actually need it to play Blu-Ray disks. StuRat (talk) 05:33, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Is the picture quality Blu-Ray better (then DVD) enough to spend money or the difference in quality is not worth the expense...?124.253.91.41 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 05:56, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

DVDs will look exactly the same on a DVD player or Blu-Ray player. As for Blu-Ray disks, they have slightly better pictures, but, whether it's enough of a diff to justify an upgrade, that's a matter of opinion. The only place I found a noticeable difference between Blu-Ray and DVD is when trying to read tiny credits. Based on lackluster Blu-Ray sales, most people seem to think it's not worth the upgrade costs. Some other factors to consider are that Blu-Ray seems to be even more susceptible to small scratches, Blu-Ray disks are more expensive, and streaming video is replacing both Blu-Ray and DVD viewing (that's how I get my movies now). I've also noticed that Blu-Ray is slower, say when navigating through menus, since there is now more data to be loaded. Also, if you don't have a 1080 HD TV, you won't get the full benefit of Blu-Ray, either. StuRat (talk) 06:16, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Blu-ray players playback video in HD, but conventional DVDs play only SD. HD has more video resolution and, if connected to an HDTV television set, Blu-ray will produce a sharper and more-detailed picture than DVD. --Thomprod (talk) 11:45, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

If you are getting error messages on your DVD player, run a DVD lens cleaning disk in it. If your DVD player has a cooling fan, that can draw a lot of dust into the machine.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 07:38, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

An esoteric theory: You die, and wake up from a nightmare in an alternate universe.

Let's say that the Lord doesn't believe that a young one who dies, has finished their calling / what they were set out to do, on this Earth. Or to various demographics, that there isn't even a God.

Either way, the theory is that anyone who dies an "untimely" death wakes up from a nightmare in an alternate universe, not necessarily being made aware that they were transported by their deaths, to said alternate reality.

Sounds nifty, but there has got to be a term for it. What am I looking for, and will Wikipedia have it? Thanks. --70.179.170.114 (talk) 12:24, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Sounds similar to, but not quite the same as, what is contained in the Tibetan Book of the Dead, from which many New Age rebirth theories have come. --TammyMoet (talk) 12:38, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Strictly speaking, this isn't a theory — there's no way to test it in a way that the results could be transmitted to others. I don't think there's a name for this; I would file it under "one of an infinite number of untestable hypotheses about what happens when you die." We probably don't have a name for the hypothesis that everyone who dies an untimely test is, say, turned into a grain of sand, either. There are many religions with rebirth and reincarnation theories, there are also many variations on the dream argument, but I'm not sure there's a specific name corresponding to what you've outlined. --Mr.98 (talk) 12:42, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm thinking "science fiction", or as some sci-fi writers like to call it, "speculative fiction." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:19, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

There must be a philosophical term for believing your life here is just something you're dreaming in the real universe. Clarityfiend (talk) 03:33, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

The concept was put into verse by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow in his poem "A Psalm of Life: or, what the young man said to the psalmist". --TammyMoet (talk) 09:01, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Sounds similar to Zhuangzi and the butterfly dream, except in that case the question of which is the dreamer and which is the dream is left open. Pfly (talk) 09:46, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

I think I've already seen this movie. Roger (talk) 11:06, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

− I'm no expert on Kaballa, but I believe it has a concept that is similar to that which you describe, called "Gilgul". NB the mainstream understanding of Gilgul does have some differences with your description, but, like everything else in Judaism, you can find differing interpretations of varying worth. The "nightmare" bit doesn't make much sense to me... who was the person who went to sleep in universe #2 and where have they now gone to? --Dweller (talk) 11:09, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Dweller, if the death is a particularly violent one, then they'd wake up for a nightmare. I thought of such deaths at first (gunshot, falling a great height, anything that may cause a great increase in heartrate shortly beforehand.) I suppose if someone dies peacefully in their sleep, then it's not as much of a nightmare at that point. --70.179.170.114 (talk) 14:52, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

But who was the sleeper who lay down in the bed, and where have they gone, now they've been replaced by someone from another universe [who thinks that they've had a nightmare]? --Dweller (talk) 15:51, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Electricity Producers and Technical Terms

Dear Wikipedians,

I am reading about the electricity market (I really know how to make Wednesday's party hard!), and I keep coming across the terms 'Merchant Providers', 'Independant Power Providers' and 'Portfolio Producers'. What are these things and how are they different from each other? Thanks in advance, Prokhorovka (talk) 13:48, 11 July 2012 (UTC).

Power sales laws have changed in the last few decades. I think if you have a windmill or waterwheel and you put power back onto the grid. (make the meter go backwards) the power company pays you for it and this would make you an 'Independant Power Provider'. The others may be investors. They buy power at lower rates or future times and then sell it to customers in areas where the local suppliers have higher prices. They may also save money by reading your meter less often (wages of the readers) and signing you to a fixed price for 6 months type thing. Your bill may be lower if you book a price for 6 months and then the price goes up for everyone else. The person that sold you the 'future power' doesn't lose because they bought it all ahead of time at a lower price. There are probably all sorts of terms out there and some they may make up themselves.--Canoe1967 (talk) 16:20, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

got a SERIOUS problem

This is questions is beyond the scope of the refdesk, please seek advice elsewhere. Monty845 16:39, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
so on Saturday night I have to say I got real drunk, really really drunk and I passed out n my friend Toms room and before that I vomited all over his shoes and he was not happy about that and so anyway while I was passed out and i had taken my shoes and trousers off as well ands o then tom actually un does my boxer shorts and takes a load of pictures of my penis and then hes uploaded them to some gay cruese website and put my email address on it and now I have all these guys writing me emails and sendimg me pictures of their cocks and WHAT DO I DO???— Preceding unsigned comment added by Daniel_2010101 (talk • contribs) First, change your email to a different service, and notify your friends except Tom. Ian.thomson (talk) 15:04, 11 July 2012 (UTC) <Remainder removed - Wikipedia cannot offer legal advice - Cucumber Mike (talk) 16:34, 11 July 2012 (UTC)> All of that advice is good, but perhaps you are really young, under 18. In which case, you should tell your parents or a teacher. I know it will be difficult and you will get Tom into trouble, and perhaps be in some trouble yourself for drinking. But the guys running the website and sending the photos around need to know that a child is involved. If you are a bit older and you are a student, you could inform your college or whatever advice service for students that they have. Please do get some advice from someone near you, because we are just random strangers on the internet and we don't even know what country you're in. Itsmejudith (talk) 15:14, 11 July 2012 (UTC) Hi. I'm sorry, but I have removed some of Ian's answer since it contained legal advice, which we aren't allowed to give. Judith's advice is very good, though. Please speak to someone you trust, preferably someone in a position of authority - teachers, youth workers, religious leaders and Scout leaders will all have had training (at least in Western countries) about how to deal with exactly this kind of situation. What you have to say will not shock them, and they will not be angry, but they will be able to help - either just by talking with you or by helping you to speak to the right authorities. You've taken a good first step by asking for help, but you really need to speak to someone in person. Best of luck. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 16:34, 11 July 2012 (UTC) Not to give legal advice but you may wish to contact the webmaster of the site and ask them to remove the images and email address.--Canoe1967 (talk) 16:24, 11 July 2012 (UTC) <Removed unhelpful comment - Cucumber Mike (talk) 16:34, 11 July 2012 (UTC)>

Purchasing a phone with Verizon prepaid credit

I am in the US. I have a cheap Verizon flip phone with a prepaid account. It has more credit built up on it than I will be able to use before they make me buy more. Is there any way I can use this credit to purchase something other than games, ringtones and service? It would be nice to upgrade to a better phone, or use the credit on something that isn't phone related at all. 209.131.76.183 (talk) 17:14, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

You'd do best to contact them directly, and a storefront will be a better idea than a phone rep. But the whole idea of pre-paid phones is to make non-refundable money off a customer they assume has bad credit.

I know what you mean. Just in my family, there are those of us who run out of days first, and those who run out of minutes first. Different plans/purchase amounts can vary the ratio slightly, but not as far as we need to. One option is just to swap phones periodically, so the person short on days can use the other person's, and the person short on minutes can do the reverse. Of course, this does mean that incoming calls go to the wrong phone.

In your case, maybe you have a friend or acquaintance who would pay you something to make a long call on your phone, thus getting some benefit. Or, you could just let them use it for free, and get a "gold star" from them. StuRat (talk) 23:32, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure how these things work in America, but in China buying new credit will extend the expiry date for *all* your credit (e.g. if you have $100 credit that expires tomorrow, and buy another $5 of credit, you'll still have the whole $105 in several days time). So you can just keep buying the minimum amount of credit a day or two before your account expires to get your extra 3 months or whatever. American users can probably confirm whether or not this will work over there. 59.108.42.46 (talk) 03:59, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

I can tell you from personal experience working on the other side of the counter that that will not necessarily work, you really have to contact the provider, it could be an unpleasant waste of money. A quick call or, better, visit, will be infinitely more helpful than speculation. μηδείς (talk) 04:46, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

I believe the term "rollover minutes" applies to unused minutes that don't go away at the end of the period. Some plans do this, others do not. However, even if your minutes do roll over, you may still find yourself in a situation where they continue to accrue, indefinitely, if you don't make as many calls as your plan can handle. This seems like a waste, in that you may never use those minutes. I believe that's the OP's situation. StuRat (talk) 05:51, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Each time you put credit on the account the expiration date for the account gets pushed out. I use less money than I add to keep the account active, so credit builds up. I'm not looking for Verizon to refund it, I know that won't work. I'm hoping for services that let me pay via premium text or something like that. They have vending machines in Japan that can accept prepaid phone credit, I wish we had options like that over here. 209.131.76.183 (talk) 11:47, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

"Wanting" to do something, and being capable of doing so without cost to self, but not actually doing it

I know that there is a word that describes the state of wanting to do something or knowing something is good for you (e.g. "I know I should exercise more, and want to make a start ASAP!"), and despite being physically able to do it (we're not talking about external constraints or costs - no "but I can't because I've sprained my ankle" or "but the gym is so expensive these days") not actually doing it ("somehow I just never seem to get around to it."). I also know there is some philosophical/psychological discussion about what this tells us about the idea of volition - can I really say that I "wanted" to do it, if actually I didn't do it? Does anyone know the name for this phenomenon, I think it is originally a concept from Greek philosophy? I found it a really interesting concept, so would appreciate it if I could be pointed in the direction of good further reading. Unfortunately search-engine attempts to find what I'm looking for keep on pointing me towards blogs, agony aunts and self-help pages.... ManyQuestionsFewAnswers (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 22:56, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Don't know about the name for it, but, according to Freud, there are multiple, often conflicting desires, named the id, ego, and superego. So saying you want to do something but don't probably means one of those is for it, but another is against it, and that one wins. StuRat (talk) 23:25, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

(A related concept is velleity, sometimes defined as "a mild desire, a wish or urge too slight to lead to action", but that's not quite what I'm looking for. ManyQuestionsFewAnswers (talk) 23:00, 11 July 2012 (UTC))

I think I have heard of the word ennui being used this way. Bus stop (talk) 04:08, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

You are thinking of akrasia. King James Bible, Romans 7:19 "For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do." μηδείς (talk) 04:10, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

"Inertia" could be a term to refer to that which can be said to hold one back from initiating a new activity. Bus stop (talk) 04:20, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

The OP has specifically asked for a term from Greek philosophy, akrasia (it's also used in the New Testament and attributed to Jesus) , which has been provided. I suggest we refrain from just throwing out words without links or refs, or we might find ourselves forced to drink hemlock. μηδείς (talk) 04:27, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Beware of Greeks bearing diffs. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 08:10, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Beautiful. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 09:20, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. μηδείς (talk) 16:26, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes brilliant thanks, it's akrasia. Actually bus stop is correct to suggest "inertia" also exists as a technical term in psychology (there is a not very good Wiki article) although it is not the term I was looking for. Is there a clear distinction between inertia, velleity and akrasia? StuRat's comment about Freud was also interesting - it seems natural that Freud would consider such a thing, but if he did it doesn't seem to make it into the akrasia article. In fact there's a talk page comment from 2006 in which somebody else was asking the same question! ManyQuestionsFewAnswers (talk) 23:01, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

If your mind is telling you to act in a certain way but you're nevertheless acting in a different way, there's something else, something deeper and/or stronger influencing you. The suppositions at the core of Neuro-linguistic programming include:

• Behind every behavior is a positive intention
• People are doing the best they can with the choices they have available. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 08:45, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

July 12

western movies

would you be showing western movies on wednesdays as brfore? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.74.78.113 (talk) 12:23, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our over 3.9 million articles and thought we were affiliated in some way with that subject. Please note that you are at Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia that anyone can edit. Thus, we have no special knowledge about the unidentified subject of your question. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:32, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Please don't confuse the requester. Hipocrite (talk) 15:13, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Why don't we? I'm sure we could find room for WP:Theatre.Collect your tickets for this week's special offering from my sandbox.Popcorn is available-a small donation on my userpage will get a nice big tub.Please don't put your feet on the seats and enjoy this week's special guns-and-horses-and-sheriffs-shooting-baddies trilogy. Lemon martini (talk) 15:05, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Cities far from water

Are there any big cities which are far away from any form of surface water (oceans, seas, lakes, rivers, etc.)? 92.80.31.46 (talk) 20:20, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Riyadh. Zoonoses (talk) 21:24, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Mexico City often comes up in quizzes as the answer to the largest city that is not on a river or by the sea, but it is built on an island in a lake. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 21:28, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

So it's not really an answer to the question, then? Although surface water could mean temporary water which you get in Riyadh, or artificial lakes which you get in e.g. Las Vegas, and even cities built on rivers may get their drinking water from far away, so it's not the easiest question to answer. --Colapeninsula (talk) 23:12, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

I headed it off at the pass in case anyone was thinking of suggesting it. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 23:40, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Ürümqi in China is apparently listed by Guinness World Records as the furthest from any coastline at 2,500 kilometres (1,600 mi) from the sea. A quick look at the map doesn't show any obvious rivers or lakes, although there are reservoirs and what look like canals - both presumably man-made. There doesn't seem to be a record of the furthest city from any form of water, since a city would require water for people to actually live there. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 21:38, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Interestingly, the only mention of water in that article is "... especially in the vicinity of Urumchi, where there was fertile, well-watered land and few people ...". -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 23:45, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Urumqi is not situated on a major river or lake in an absolute sense but it is criss-crossed by a number of waterways which makes it remarkably wet for the region where it is situated (as Jack noted above). The best known of them is probably the Urumqi River, which was a natural river (that influenced the citing of the original Qing Dynasty garrison that became Urumqu) which has in the last century or so been significantly engineered so that the central section passing through the city is now more like a man-made canal than a natural waterway. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 11:34, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Urumqi - like most other populated places in the region - exists thanks to the nearby range of the Tian Shan mountains (Bogda Shan is a particularly high section of it). Even though the mountains are in the middle of the desert, there is some precipitation on top of the mountains, which means glaciers, which in its turn means lots of comparatively short glacier-fed rivers. Thus if you look at the map of Xinjiang you see bands of oases stretching along the foothills of most major mountain ranges, with the deserts between them. Most of those rivers are fairly short, and disappear in the desert (or even earlier, as water is taken away for irrigation). Only rarely the water is allowed to feed a lake (such as Chaiwopu Lake nearby). -- Vmenkov (talk) 17:44, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

The Johannesburg page says it is "the world's largest city not situated on a river, lake, or coastline". It isn't all that far from the Orange River though. Apparently it gets some of its water from the Vaal River. Still, big cities that are not on a river or coastline are rare, and at almost 4 million people, Johannesburg is a very big example. Pfly (talk) 03:40, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Chec your map again, Johannesburg is a lot closer to the Vaal than the Orange rivers - but it is in fact situated on a watershed. Roger (talk) 09:09, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Yea, I didn't mean to imply that Johannesburg was closer to the Orange than the Vaal. I mentioned the Orange first because, if I understand right, it is the main river in the region and the Vaal is a tributary. But I was wrong in guessing Johannesburg was between the Orange and Vaal. I see now it is north of the Vaal. By "situated on a watershed" I'm guessing you're using "watershed" in the drainage divide rather than the drainage basin sense. That "watershed" means almost opposite things in different parts of the world is unfortunate. Now I wonder, if Johannesburg is on a divide/watershed, between which rivers/basins? The Vaal and Limpopo River and/or Olifants River? (eyeballing with this map, [9]) Pfly (talk) 09:45, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Although I see that Riyadh is even bigger, with a metro population approaching 7 million, so I think Johannesburg's claim doesn't hold water (ha). There are no rivers or streams in Riyadh. Wadi Hanifa is basically a dry valley. Originally there was a decent supply of water from underground. Today Riyadh pipes desalinated water in from the Persian Gulf, hundreds of kilometres away. Pfly (talk) 03:53, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Apparently some small lakes are appearing south of Riyadh, from treated sewage water if I understand it correctly, and the area is becoming "a popular destination for recreational activities such as fishing and picnicking". Thanks for all the answers (I'm the OP)! I guess we humans love our water. 92.80.25.145 (talk) 08:23, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

A bit closer to home (my home anyway) Birmingham (with over a million inhabitants) must count as a big city, and being on the Birmingham Plateau we have only small brooks and streams (and canals for transportation). We have to pinch all our drinking (and canal) water from Wales.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:55, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

But you have this: [10], which looks really cool. A Venice of the North sort of feel :D 92.80.25.145 (talk) 09:21, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Haha way to polish a turd! Amazing what a sunset does for the look of a place... gazhiley 16:25, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

On a historical note, the ancient city of Petra may be of interest. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 84.21.143.150 (talk) 11:39, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

• It's impossible to have a city far away from any form of surface water. But if you are willing to exclude channelized rivers and arroyos (intermittent rivers), then most people in the American Southwest live far from natural, constantly flowing water. --M@rēino 17:37, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

July 13

Which Olympian holds the record for taking up their sport latest in life?

Hi - it's for a friend, who has a pint riding on it - she thinks no one has taken up a sport at 26 or older and become an Olympian. Can anyone here help? Thanks Adambrowne666 (talk) 01:37, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

I don't know if he's the record holder, but Sir William Northam took up the sport of sailing at the age of 46. He went on to win Australia's first Olympic gold medal for sailing at the 1964 Tokyo Olympics when he was 59. He remains our oldest gold medal winner to date. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 02:07, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Actually, I don't know why I asked about who holds the record - you've answered the substantive part of the question, Jack, as ever; thanks. Adambrowne666 (talk) 02:35, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Jack when you said "our" were you using it to refer to Australia only or in a more general sense? Oscar Swahn, which does not answer the original question, was 64 when he won gold. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 03:39, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Oh, most definitely parochially, CBW. Got to get in practice for the forthcoming hostilities. Thanks for the compliment, Adam. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 05:01, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Akbar the Great, Indian Emperor Query

 Done

Hi,

when wiki page opens, shows DOB October 14 in main article and October 15 in brief summary about Akbar. All this is one and the same wiki page. When Googled, Akbar (Google brief summary says October 15.

Strange to have on one and the same wiki page, TWO different DOB.

77.70.3.191 (talk) 11:01, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

If you review the Wikipedia article Akbar, you can see the sources for the dates. According to the source, linked as citation number 2, the correct date is the 14th. I have made this change to the article. Hipocrite (talk) 11:30, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

What does he mean?

I met this guy online and had a great connection. We ended up sleeping together on our 2nd date (I have 22, who is 28) and all was well, ZERO stupidity. This happened on a Saturday night, and I spoke with him on Monday about the whole thing. I guess he felt guilty for my actions. I said "by chance" and that is fine, the two decided to continue to know each other gradually. None of them want anything serious at this time I gave him a few days before I had made an attempt to communicate with him to avoid the appearance of a Clinger (ha ha), so I sent him a text last night saying, "Hello :) How's the week ? "I had fallen asleep before answering, but he replied with "Wow sucks!" I have no idea how to take that! The "Wow" could mean that he was surprised to receive a text from me, or maybe he was emphasizing how "shit" of the week is ...? Any suggestions? Suzi Suzi Suzi What Did You Do (talk) 18:45, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

No. Even I recognise this one as trolling. In case you are genuine, ask him what he meant. Itsmejudith (talk) 19:24, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

I don't see this as trolling at all, just wrong board for such a question. Personally I suggest you should just try to not read so much into each word, and just keep talking to get a feel for how he feels. Unique Ubiquitous (talk) 02:35, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Sometimes we're really good at "This isn't the right place to ask this question ... but I'm going to answer it anyway". Some places are no doubt set up to help out with romantic/relationship issues. We're not one of them. What we can do is to perhaps suggest some alternative and more appropriate sites for the questioner to go to. If I knew of any, and knew they're trustworthy and safe, I'd mention them, but I don't.

Bottom line: We should be making no attempt to provide answers ourselves to these types of questions. It would be simply the personal opinion of the editor, which is no more valuable than that of a random stranger the questioner bailed up in a shopping mall. Even less, because in that case they'd at least choose the stranger based on some visual information that suggested they might be able to help. Here, they don't have that. They know precisely nothing about any of us editors, and they should have no reason to trust anything we say on such a delicate and personal matter. The value of this ref desk does not reside in such things. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 02:59, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Signature on pieces of glassware

I have a blue vase and am trying to find out who producted this. Would appreciate knowing where I can go to find this information. The glassware has a large L on the bottom. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.173.1.7 (talk) 20:27, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

July 14

Volume of questions at reference desk

This question has always puzzled me. You could ask it of various forums, but let's take Wikipedia reference desk as an example. I read somewhere that there are 536,000,000 English-speaking Internet users. Suppose that 1 in 100 has heard of the Wikipedia reference desk. Suppose each of those asks one question per year. That would make 14,700 questions per day. In fact, to arrive at the 50 questions per day that might be typical across all the boards, we need to make some assumption like 1 in 1000 has heard of the ref. desk, each of whom asks one question in 30 years. Obviously those numbers can be cut in various ways, but the point is that the activity has to be incredibly minuscule and rare, and yet still non-zero. I would expect that any tremor of activity at all across a potential user base of 536,000,000 would instantly swamp the desks. I would expect either nothing, or a flood. The fact that the number is say about 50 per day, and hence non-zero but manageable, strikes me as being like one of those physics conundrums where a phsyical constant is exactly the right value for the universe to exist, and if it was different at the eighth decimal place then nothing could exist, and no one can explain why it is that way. 86.179.4.226 (talk) 02:23, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

This is a bit like the Drake Equation, but it seems to me you missed some important factors, like the portion of those who have heard of Wikipedia who ever go there, the portion of those who know of the existence of the Ref Desk, the portion of those who actually go to the Ref Desk, the portion of those who know how to ask a Q here, and the portion of those who would ever want to. StuRat (talk) 02:28, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Right, but however you express it, the degree of fine-tuning necessary to get a non-zero yet non-overwhelming volume seems to me to be remarkably improbable, yet it happens. It would be a bit like saying there are five instances of life in the universe, when most people™ think the answer is either one or countless billions. 86.179.4.226 (talk) 02:32, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

This shows a limitation of such formulae. They really are useless to predict anything, since there are so many unknowns. It's far better to just measure the results. StuRat (talk) 02:34, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

An interesting question.

I don't know whether there is any way to test this, but I have a suspicion that the number of questions in such forums tend to be regulated - or at least held within reasonable limits - by the number of people available to answer them. A forum where few questions show signs of being answered will attract few new questions, whereas one that seems to respond quickly will attract more - and given that there are relatively few people active in answering questions on a regular basis here, if the volume gets tooo great, the number that get answered quickly must decline. One could describe this as conforming to a rule of 'supply and demand' were it not for the fact that it doesn't explain why anyone would answer questions in the first place, given that there is no obvious reward. There are probably several feedback mechanisms at work here - but trying to figure it all out might be rather difficult. Anyway, it works - like Wikipedia does in general - almost in spite of what simplistic logic might imply. And if it works, don't fix it... AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:39, 14 July 2012 (UTC)