Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Featured log/December 2008

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Scorpion0422 23:48, 20 December 2008 [1].

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Trivium discography

I don't know what to write, but the work was done, and that's all. Cannibaloki 15:38, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments from SRX

Comments

• Prior to record their second album, joined the band, bassist Paolo Gregoletto, and guitarist Corey Beaulieu. - is "recording" meant here?
  • Done.
• There needs to be prose summarizing how many discs they released in total.
  • Done.
• I know this is in other FLs, but it seems odd that the extended plays, singles, etc. are not sourced at all, and leaves the table somewhat unverifiable. This should be discussed w/ the respective project or at WT:FLC.--SRX 23:40, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Doing... Cannibaloki 00:18, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
    • Unable to prove per a lack of reliable sources. Cannibaloki 02:50, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
      • That then signifies that the list is not entirely verifiable. Either remove the information or attempt to find a reliable source. Best, --SRX 03:27, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
        • Added reference for two singles, the others were removed. Ah, the EP is in the band website. Cannibaloki 04:06, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Support - my issues were resolved, like you did in this list, I recommend telling the respective Wikiproject about sourcing EP's, singles, etc. before coming to FLC.--SRX 21:07, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:09, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

• "The album was well received" "well received"-->well-received.
  • Done.
• "Prior to"-->Before.
  • Done.
• "joined the band, bassist Paolo Gregoletto, and guitarist Corey Beaulieu." Unclear. Who joined the band, and what did the bassist and guitarist do?
  • I made some changes but I do not know if what you want.
    • What does "joined the band" mean? Dabomb87 (talk) 21:48, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
      • Mean that they joined the band! Anyway, this sentence was reworded. Cannibaloki 22:30, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
• "The album also was released in a special edition, that includes three bonus tracks, behind the scenes footage and an instructional video."-->The album was also released in a special edition; it includes three bonus tracks, behind the scenes footage and an instructional video. Dabomb87 (talk) 17:41, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Done.

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 17:41, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

I know. =D Cannibaloki 20:06, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Udonknome

Comments from Udonknome (talk · contribs) Oppose -- For various resons:

• Sources actually do not look good. For example, I don't understand how can blabbermouth.net, a news website/posting board of the band's record label, be considered a reliable source and be used in a discography article. Even we were to boldly overlook this, citation [8] used for much of the album charts is still "flawed" as the indicated charts are "First-Week Chart Positions" for The Crusade rather than the album's peak charts positions.
  • Removed.
• Also, most of those charts for the album Shogun seem to be unreferenced.
  • Done.
• In regards to the singles, are you sure that there were no charting songs? Billboard seems to indicate at least one and I'm confident that if you went through some the sources at MOS:DISCOG#Useful resources: you might find some more.
  • Irrelevant. Also these positions are from radio airplay as component charts.
• In the lead, I'd suggest you un-bold "discography of Trivium" per MOS:BOLD, as this is a "merely descriptive" name of the article.
  • Done.
• Is Florida relevant to this topic and needs to be linked?
  • Removed.
• Could you wikilink to discography somewhere in the opening paragraph?
  • Without any significant, given that the article is just a list of books, but okay. Who commonly ask me this, is Matthewedwards.
• "The album was well-received"...based on what? Sounds a bit "POVish". Nonetheless, I don't think public reception should be addressed in a discography article.
  • Removed per "I don't think public reception should be addressed in a discography article", but was based on Allmusic website.
• "...peaking at #4 on the Top Heatseekers chart." – No reference to this in the charts section, so "citation needed"
  • Done.
• According to Blabbermouth.net, The Crusade "was certified silver by [the] British Phonographic Industry". However, by searching the BPI's database this statement seems to be false, as no certification was awarded. Thus, I've come to the conclusion that Blabbermouth.net is not a reliable source.
  • Removed per lack of sources to prove this statement.
• "(BPI) – on the same day of release – for sales in excess of 60,000 copies." – Replace the N-dashes with M-dashes and no space, as WP:MOS advices.
  • Deprecated.
• Avoid using the pound key in the lead; simply spell out "number". Also, per WP:MOSNUM#Numbers, in the text single digit numbers should be rendered in words.
  • Done.
• "Follow-up Ascendancy, appeared in March 2005" – Remove the comma as there shouldn't be any interruption between the subject and the verb. Also, add the article the at the beginning of the sentence.
  • Sorry teacher...=P
• "The album was also released in a special edition; it includes three bonus tracks, behind the scenes footage and an instructional video." – Are bonus features relevant for when it comes to describe a summary of the band's discography?
  • Removed by your opinion as reader.
• The listed EP album seems to be a self-released demo CD. I think the MOS:DISCOG proposal suggests that this kind of material may not be inserted in a discography. You might want to follow that.
  • Really?

There are too many problems with this list in my opinion, so I can't support at this time. — Do U(knome)? ^yes..._{or no} 10:22, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

All comments were answered. Thanks for the detailed review. Cannibaloki 19:15, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Good job for fixing all those issues! Before I give my support, there are a few touches I'd suggest:

• In regards to the Australia charts, the references provided do not open properly for me. Unless my computer is playing tricks, there might be something wrong either with the website or the link code itself. Nonetheless, australian-charts.com has both chart positions in one page, so you might be more interested in using that reference.

• You saw: This is a copy of an Internet resource that has been archived for historical and preservation purposes. Information found in the Archive may be out of date. To proceed to the copy, please follow this link, at the Pandora Archive? This link not open directly, will take you to a page first. Also, I need these links to UK Albums Chart.

• For the album charts table: USA -> US; DEU -> GER; NZL -> NZ; CHE -> SWI; GBR -> UK. Not to be a perfectionist, but these are the most common abbreviations used around discographies. It also keeps the columns in alphabetic order. (NLD -> NL?? I'm not sure about this one.)

• Done. This was an attempt at something that not worked.=O

• For the EP, I'd suggest that you move it to the talk page until you find a reference that indicates it is an official release.

• This info you found at the band's official website. Used as an external link.

• Question: what does "__TOC__{{-}}" do?

• Is an appeal to prevent that the table if skew. Cannibaloki 05:21, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

• Ok I found the EP. Indeed, it is an official release. I would recommend you add [2] as a reference anyone can access to. Also, I figured out how the ARIA charts reference works; however, I feel that the one I provided works better as it directly shows the positions and doesn't require the reader to go through a whole bunch of charts. In addition, for the UK charts this link indicates that "Anthem (We Are The Fire)" charted at number 40. Just to make it clear, at this point I definitely support promoting the list to FL. Any comments at this point are for further improvements. — Do U(knome)? ^yes..._{or no} 07:19, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

• All done. Cannibaloki 15:02, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks— Do U(knome)? ^yes..._{or no} 04:20, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

• Support – Great Job! By the way, is there a chance you might be interested at giving me some peer review feedback for the Eminem discography? I am currently preparing for FLC. Thanks — Do U(knome)? ^yes..._{or no} 21:16, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Ah, of course, and thanks for all! Cannibaloki 21:55, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Note that www.blabbermouth.net was proved to be a reliable source at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Strapping Young Lad and so it can be used. Dabomb87 (talk) 16:38, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, but where is blabbermouth.net mentioned in that FAC? Do U(knome)? ^yes..._{or no} 18:38, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Here is a better link. Relevant quote from that FAC page:

• "[Blabbermouth.net] is recognised as a quality source by Roadrunner, yet not doctored by it. This is exactly what you were looking for- recognition from a major publication or group."

See also blabbermouth.net for confirmation, as well as User:Ealdgyth/FAC cheatsheet#Music. Dabomb87 (talk) 18:49, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Overall, it might be a reliable source, but I feel that it shouldn't be used with as much emphasis as it was previously in this discography. I didn't like how the website was used for chart positions and certifications, especially when better sources (Billboard.com, BPI.co.uk etc) are available. Also, as I previously pointed out, Blabbermouth.net was incorrect when stating that the album The Crusade had been certified Silver by the BPI. Thus, it can't be considered 100% reliable for the use of charts and data. Instead, I feel that it is an overall reliable news source, hence why I felt it was correct to use it to retrieve the directors of the band's music videos. Do U(knome)? ^yes..._{or no} 20:13, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Scorpion0422 23:48, 20 December 2008 [3].

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List of Fullmetal Alchemist chapters

Nominating a list that had its summaries and lead copy-edited. Regards.Tintor2 (talk) 20:46, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Comments

• What makes these sites reliable sources?
  • animenewsnetwork.com
    • As a resource for other lists;
  • jpf.com.pl (in Polish?)
    • Used only to prove the existence of Polish version.
  • square-enix.co.jp (in Japanese?)
    • As a resource for other lists;
  • kurokawa.fr (in French?)
    • Used only to prove the existence of French version.
  • mangasjbc.uol.com.br (in Portuguese?)
    • Used only to prove the existence of Brazilian version.

Cannibaloki 21:18, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Both Square Enix and Anime News Network are widely used on several featured lists like List of Soul Eater chapters. Plus, there isn't anything wrong with non-English sources, as far as I know. Regards! NOCTURNENOIR^talk 21:40, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, okay. I made a reassessment of the above sources. Cannibaloki 22:08, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Goodraise

Comments

• "The chapters of the Japanese manga Fullmetal Alchemist are is written and illustrated [...]" - Though I realize, that other (even recently promoted) chapter lists use this wording, I still find it to be needlessly wordy.
• "As such, Edward joins the state military from his country and discovers that several of the members from the military are also wishing to get the stone."
• "Square Enix has been collecting the chapters in tankōbon format." - Also, is the tense correct? Did they stop collecting? If not, it should be "Square Enix is collecting [...]".
• "which features the first nine chapters fromof the manga"
• "and it was followed by a film sequel in 2005.
• "Viz Media beganis releasing the manga in North America." - Unless they stopped doing so.
• "[...] and volume 17 was released on October 21, 2008." - Why is that notable? It should be pointed out, that it's the most recent release.
• "In Brazil, Editora JBC is releasing the manga and has released 36 volumes, equivalent to eighteen." - This sentence is slightly confusing.

-- Goodraise (talk) 22:02, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• • Done.Tintor2 (talk) 22:35, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
• "In Brazil, Editora JBC is releasing the manga and has released 36 volumes, equivalent to the first eighteen original volumes of the Japanese release."

-- Goodraise (talk) 22:45, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• DoneTintor2 (talk) 22:48, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Support: Meets WP:WIAFL. -- Goodraise (talk) 09:46, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

• Comments Made a few minor grammatical changes. Why have volume release counts for the various other languages? That seems a bit excessive, since our main focus is the English and original. Maybe just notes its being released by all of those companies in those languages. Any particular reason the lead isn't particularly following the structure and wording set out by some of the more recent chapter FLs? -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 16:43, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

• Trimmed the other languages. As I see, the lead is exactly the same as the lastest FL, but in other words.Tintor2 (talk) 17:27, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Its the other words that isn't fitting well. However, the bigger issue is I'm finding more and more grammatical errors just in the lead. Has this list not been copyedited yet? -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 03:50, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Ah, yes. You are indeed correct. I was mainly responsible for copyediting this, and only address the volume summaries. I will copyedit the lead this afternoon. --–m.f ^{(t • c)} 13:30, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I went ahead and hit it up now rather than later. It should be ready to go. Thanks! --–m.f ^{(t • c)} 14:35, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Great. Support. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 03:09, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Support --–m.f ^{(t • c)} 17:41, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:51, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

• "The plot follows the adventures of two alchemist brothers, named Edward and Alphonse Elric." No comma necessary.
• "Two alchemist brothers, Edward and Alphonse Elric, are forced to deal with a corrupt religious leader from the city of Lior. He is using a mysterious red stone which imitates the power of the coveted Philosopher's Stone in order to create "miracles"."-->Two alchemist brothers, Edward and Alphonse Elric, are forced to deal with a corrupt religious leader from the city of Lior, who is using a mysterious red stone that imitates the power of the coveted Philosopher's Stone to create "miracles".
• "As they look for the supposed Philosopher's Stone, it is revealed that they want to use it to regenerate the portions of their body they lost while attempting to revive their dead mother." Add "that" after "body".
• "Edward defeats the religious leader from Lior but discovers the stone was a fake. " Add "that" after "discovers".
• "Using his status as State Alchemist, Edward goes to several towns along with his brother to get closer to a real Philosopher's Stone, but they always end up becoming side-tracked with aiding civilians with their troubles."
• "Roy Mustang, a superior of Edward, directs the Elrics to meet with Shou Tucker, a State Alchemist that may teach them more about alchemy."-->Roy Mustang, a superior of Edward, directs the Elrics to meet with Shou Tucker, a State Alchemist who can teach them more about alchemy.
• "They move through Central" Did you mean, "They move through Central City..."?
• "They then proceed to destroy Laboratory 5,"
• "After discovering a terrifying secret behind some of the military's recent actions" "behind"-->about or that explains.
• "On their way to Dublith, the Elric brothers along with Winry Rockbell stop in a town called Rush Valley" "along"-->and.
• "As a result, the brothers were forced into a mysterious gate containing all the information of the world," "containing"-->that contained. Why the italics?
• "and he proceeds to attack Greed not allowing him time to harden his body." What is the logical connection here? Does he attack Greed because he was not allowed time to harden, or does his attack not giave Greed enough time to harden?
• "When some of their spilled blood contacts Alphonse" I don't think that "contacts" is the right word.
• "They encounter Number 66, who has broken Maria Ross out of prison, but they are discovered by Mustang" "but"-->and.
• "As Maria escapes to Xing, Edward meets a group of Ishbalans who tell him the story of Winry's parents' death." Comma before "who".
• "Edward returns to his hometown and meets with his long absent father, Hohenheim."
• "Whilethey are inside" Typo.
• "However, he then uses Lin's body to host Greed's Philosopher's Stone,"
• "coded message revealing Pride's true identity." "revealing"-->that reveals.
• "Lin goes to where Ed, and chimeras Heinkel and Darius are." No comma after "Ed".
• "In Central" Central City?
• "Al locates Hohenheim" "locates"-->finds. Dabomb87 (talk) 17:12, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Done.Tintor2 (talk) 21:23, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Support. Haven't edited this article in a long time! But it looks quite good and some of my own contribs are still there, but anyway well done on the job Tintor! サラは、私を、私の青覚えている。 _Talk ^Contribs 02:05, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Scorpion0422 23:48, 20 December 2008 [4].

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List of Cleveland Browns head coaches

Nom by SRE.K.A.L.24 and myself Gary King (talk) 21:31, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

• Support - Excellent list, no prose nor table problems. Complies with WP:WIAFL.--SRX 22:13, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Comment from Killervogel5

• Looks great, except... Miami Gardens, Florida!? That can't be right. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 23:45, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

  Oh damn, thanks for catching that. Fixed! Gary King (talk) 23:50, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

  Support from KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 23:59, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Comments

• Sources looks good, checked with the Checklinks tool.

Cannibaloki 21:03, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• Support, good job. Jaespinoza (talk) 18:20, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:49, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

• Needs playoff win% added to the columns.

May you tell me why is that? -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 03:25, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Because it is in the same source as the other info. Dabomb87 (talk) 03:39, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm going to let Gary King decide on this decision, because if we add this column on, we will not be consistent with mos tof the other NFL head coaches lists. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 03:53, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

As I have already told SRX on the New Orleans list, this is not about consistency; comprehensiveness is more important. If you are so concerned about consistency, rest assure that I will put this info in the other lists soon (probably this weekend). Notice that all the basketball head coach FLs do this also. Dabomb87 (talk) 04:03, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

False statement about, "Notice that all the basketball head coach FLs do this also." It isn't on some of them. Also, I do agree with you about the comprehensiveness before consistency. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 08:15, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

True, and notice that most of the basketball head coach FLs without the column were promoted earlier. Anyway, I will put them in also this weekend. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:16, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

I am already going through the NFL head coach FLs that were promoted earlier and bringing them up to the current standards; adding the playoff win% column may be a bit tedious but easy to do. Dabomb87 (talk) 04:05, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Done Gary King (talk) 04:14, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• Make the linking of publishers consistent; some are linked every time and others are linked on the first appearance.

DONE. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 03:25, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• In the second paragraph, four consecutive sentences start with "Brown". Can we diversify a bit?

Done, but check to make sure about the grammar. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 03:25, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Dabomb87 (talk) 22:46, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:46, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• Support/Comment It'd probably look better to center the figures in the table. Other than that everything looks good. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 11:37, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Scorpion0422 23:48, 20 December 2008 [5].

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Sylvester Medal

Another Royal Society Medal.Ironholds (talk) 13:24, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Comments

• Sources looks good, checked with the Checklinks tool.
• The article is still a stub? Why has a {{math-stub}} at the bottom of the page? Cannibaloki 14:57, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

  Crud, sorry; the silly shit I miss. A leftover from the previous version I'm assuming, although I don't know why that would've been considered a stub.Ironholds (talk) 15:04, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

• Very impressive work! Ecoleetage (talk) 23:25, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
• Strong support per my comments at Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Royal Medal, of which the suggestions aren't applicable to this list but the support most certainly is. Daniel (talk) 01:05, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 04:50, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

• The lead is a bit on the short side. Perhaps add some info about notable winners of the Medal, any records, etc. This could be done on your other medal lists too.
• All three images need sources and/or authors. Image captions do not need full stops unless they are complete sentences.
• Sources need publishers added. Dabomb87 (talk) 16:38, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

  What do you mean by "image sources and/or authors"? Ironholds (talk) 17:31, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

  The three images need source information and the authors (who took the picture). See Commons:First steps/Quality and description for more info. Dabomb87 (talk) 17:47, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

  Surely those would already be at the Image: locations, not something to be concerned about on the page proper. I didn't upload the images, and as such that isn't information I can provide.Ironholds (talk) 18:21, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

  (edit conflict) Well, meeting "the requirements for all Wikipedia content" certainly includes meeting image use requirements. Contact David Fuchs if you need more image help. Dabomb87 (talk) 18:31, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

  Done so. I saw a lot of "Dabomb87 says I should talk to you about this featured thing.." messages while I was there, haha. Ironholds (talk) 18:36, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

  Yeah, I am pretty sure Fuchs wishes for me to die a slow, painful death for all this work I've caused him :D Dabomb87 (talk) 18:39, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

  Alright, info added (nationalties of winners, for example). Info on noted winners is already included on the right, and to be honest all of them are pretty notable. Ironholds (talk) 18:30, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

  Yikes, Fuchs is ill now. Might want to find someone else. I will look. Dabomb87 (talk) 18:40, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

  Okies; awaiting your findings. Ironholds (talk) 19:35, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

  Um, User:Awadewit seems to be well again, but she has a million other things to do, and may not be able to attend to these issues within the time constraints of an FLC. Alternatively, you could try Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:41, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

  Images removed (per the same reasoning as with the Royal Medal article) and I've added some info on the recipients. Ironholds (talk) 02:44, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

• Note: Lists should be in chronological order, per WP:SAL/WP:LIST. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 08:44, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

  It is in chronological order. WP:LIST doesn't actually mention it, so that is probably a bad place to link to; it simply mentions that lists should be ordered, and an example of this would be a chronological system. Ironholds (talk) 15:08, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

  Ugh, last time I was there it said the same as SAL, which I should have clarified on. "Chronological lists, including all timelines and lists of works, should be in earliest-to-latest chronological order." Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 16:39, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

  Reversed. Gary King (talk) 20:05, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

• It's not a requirement for FL, but are there any WikiProjects the page falls under the scope of? Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 06:31, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
• well Wikipedia:WikiProject Science and variants comes to mind.. Ironholds (talk) 08:18, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Comments from The Rambling Man on tour (talk · contribs)

• Call me old-fashioned, but in the UK we generally say that things are named after other things, not named for them... so the caption (in my mind) should say "James Joseph Sylvester, after whom the award is named"...
• "The Sylvester Medal is a bronze medal awarded by the Royal Society for the encouragement of mathematical research and accompanied by a £1,000 prize" - the "and accompanied.." run-on reads oddly to me after the "encouragement" bit. I'd split it in two.
• The Wikipedia article seems to capitalise Savilian Professor of Geometry.
• "the Royal Society have announced that it will henceforth be awarded every two years instead,..." - this reads like current affairs - put a timeframe on it - when did the RS announce this?
• "...and 2 to citizens ..." - I know the previous values were numeric but this would look a lot better as "...and two to citizens..."
• Any reason why the nationality isn't in the table since you talk about it in the lead? I think that WP:LEAD mentions something about not introducing info in the lead section without going into it in more detail in the main article doesn't it?
• Is it worth mentioning in the lead that so few women (i.e. one?!) have received the medal?

Minor points in general, an excellent list. The Rambling Man on tour (talk) 05:46, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

• All done except the nationality; I guess I'll create a new column and stick that in. As my people say, "oy vey". Ironholds (talk) 08:30, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

  "Oy vey" indeed. I'm happy to support the list's promotion asuming these minor issues are dealt with! Good stuff. The Rambling Man on tour (talk) 11:19, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

  Everything is dealt with minus the "subject" linking/delinking and the nationality column, which I assure you I will get on to this evening. Ironholds (talk) 12:04, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

  Alrighty then, all concerns addressed. Ironholds (talk) 14:25, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Scorpion0422 23:48, 20 December 2008 [6].

---

List of FA Vase winners

This is a companion list to the existing List of FA Trophy winners - the format is a straight crib, and the PR didn't turn up any significant issues with the prose, so hopefully all is good, but let me know what you think nonetheless...... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:55, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Comments

• Sources looks good, checked with the Checklinks tool. Cannibaloki 00:17, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Support Can't spot any faults well done NapHit (talk) 16:43, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• Support I added comments at the PR, this is good stuff. The Rambling Man on tour (talk) 05:54, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 04:02, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs) All in all, really good, a few suggestions:

• Do we really need to link England? Most, if not all, English speakers know enough about the country that linking to such a broad article is not of any use.
  • Changed
• "The Vase is currently held by AFC Fylde, who defeated Lowestoft Town in the 2008 final." "who"-->which.
  • Not in UK English. See, for example, "Manchester United, who.....", "Arsenal, who.....", "Blackburn Rovers, who....", etc etc
• "At the time the club was still known by its former name, Kirkham & Wesham." What "time"?
  • The time they won the Vase. Seems clear to me but I have reworded slightly just in case
• "During the 1980s" Comma after this phrase.
  • Changed
• "was won by teams representing a variety of different leagues and from all parts of the country" Bit wordy and vague, try "was won by teams that represented different leagues from all parts of the country"
  • Changed
• "In the 1990s there were again few repeat finalists, with only Guiseley and Tiverton Town appearing more than once." Few is rather subjective here. I can think of many cases in which having two repeat finalists is about or even above average.
  • Changed
• In the Results table, can we use em dashes instead of en dashes?
  • Why? WP:DASH specifically states that en dashes should be used in sports scores.....
    • I was talking about the cells without entries. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:33, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
      • Apologies, I thought you meant within the table of match results. No problem, I'll change it.....

Dabomb87 (talk) 04:18, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:41, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Source comment Why does Ref 15 use the {{Cite news}} template? Dabomb87 (talk) 23:08, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't now :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:50, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Matthewedwards 00:56, 17 December 2008 [7].

---

List of Florida Panthers head coaches

-- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 07:21, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Comments

• Sources looks good, checked with the Checklinks tool. Cannibaloki 12:56, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments from SRX

Comments

• The team joined the NHL in 1993 as an expansion team and won their first Eastern Conference championship in 1996. - comma before and
• There have been 10 head coaches for the Panthers franchise. The franchise's first head coach was Roger Neilson, who coached for two complete season - repetition of the word "franchise." In addition, these seasons where in between what time?
• Neilson is the only Panthers coaches have been elected into the Hockey Hall of Fame as a builder. - as a builder?

He was elected into the Hockey Hall of Fame as a builder. Just look at the List of members of the Hockey Hall of Fame. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 21:03, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Builder seems very broad, is there a specific thing he did as a builder, because readers might think it has to do with hockey.--SRX 00:05, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't understand your question...coaches are part of the builders category. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 00:51, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

But do you mean literally a builder? (i.e. Building a house?)--SRX 14:19, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

As I said above, Builder is a category in the Hockey Hall of Fame. Look at List of members of the Hockey Hall of Fame. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 00:14, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I know it sounds wrong but "builder" really is a category in the Hockey Hall of Fame.—Chris! _ct 02:08, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Oh okay, I just wanted to be certain about it.--SRX 21:36, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• Is there any other history that can be added to the lead, it just seems very short, especially the history prose.

Do you have any suggestions? -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 21:03, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Not necessarily, unless they have no other significant history.--SRX 00:05, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

I think think so, since the franchise has only been on for 15+ years. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 00:51, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

• That red link just stands out, it bothers the appearance of the list, maybe just not wikilinking it will work. It doesn't hurt to do either or.

I or some other user will be making the article sooner or later, so no worries. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 21:03, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Why not just create it right now. It takes less than a minute to do that. The red link is very distracting, in my opinion.—Chris! _ct 21:09, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

I guess I'll make it right now... -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 21:14, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Laugh out loud! I spelled his name wrong. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 21:21, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

--SRX 15:19, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

• Support - my comments were addressed to comply with WP:WIAFL.--SRX 21:36, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Support Comments from Nurmsook (talk · contribs)

• Same comment as with the Washington Capitals article regarding the head coach. Also, perhaps under Roger Neilson's achievements section you could include the year in which he was inducted into the HHOF. It's a pretty big achievement. – Nurmsook! ^talk... 01:53, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Replied on the other FLC. The Achievements column is only for achievements that are related to the article. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 02:36, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• Further comments
  • Make sure all season articles have endashes in the link, I noticed a couple that simply use a hyphen, thus linking to a dab page. Also, the "stats as of 2007–08" link links to the NBA article, not the NHL one as it should. Be careful with this, I've caught it on a few other of these articles as well.
  • Could you switch the html endashes and emdashes to simply the symbols (– and —). This will reduce bandwidth and load time of the page. – Nurmsook! ^talk... 17:28, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

DONE all. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 23:51, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:58, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

• Add the winning percentage column. I would also suggest adding a points percentage column, as provided by the same source.
• "The Panthers are owned by Alan Cohen and Bernie Kosar, and Jacques Martin, former head coach of the Panthers, is their general manager." Add "the" before "former".
• "MacLean is the only coach to win the Prince of Wales Trophy with the Panthers"-->MacLean is the only coach to have won the Prince of Wales Trophy with the Panthers...
• Pipe link "builder" to List of members of the Hockey Hall of Fame#Builders.

DONE all. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 20:43, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:46, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Matthewedwards 00:56, 17 December 2008 [8].

---

List of Arizona Cardinals head coaches

Gary King (talk) 02:09, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Comments

• Sources looks good, checked with the Checklinks tool. Cannibaloki 04:43, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Comment

Again with this one, I think you should have asked Bole2 before nominating, since I think its rude nominating without the main contributor. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 05:31, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments from SRX

Oppose - many prose issues.

• The Arizona Cardinals of the National Football League (NFL) have had 36 head coaches. - this should not be the introductory sentence, this should go in the final paragraph to summarize the list.
• The lead should say something like The Arizona Cardinals are a professional American football franchise based in (city, state). They play in the (division) of the (conference) in the National Football League (NFL). In this way the reader can get a good understanding of where they are based in to follow the background as to where they originated.
• The Cardinals franchise originated as the Morgan Athletic Club in 1898. - did they originate in Arizona, or where?
• A few years later, they were renamed the Racine Street Cardinals. - exact time per (In 19??, they were renamed as the Racine Street Cardinals.) [Also add the as before the.].
• The name came from University of Chicago jerseys that the team used, which were described as "Cardinal red". - add the before the University name. In addition, what is verifying this sentence and the sentences before this; there is no in-line citation.
• They joined the American Football League in 1920—the team is the oldest franchise in the NFL. - you're going to have to say the went to the NFL as a part of the NFL-AFL merger, its odd to cut off right here.
• The team has moved to a number of cities during its history; after staying in Chicago from 1920 to 1959, it moved to St. Louis, Missouri and remained there from 1960 to 1987. --> The team has moved to numerous cities during its history; after staying in Chicago from 1920 to 1959, it moved to St. Louis, Missouri, and it remained there from 1960 to 1987.
• It briefly stayed at Phoenix, Arizona, from 1988 to 1993, before eventually settling in Glendale, Arizona in 1994, where it now resides. - In not At. Where it currently resides should replace the last part of that sentence.
• Since 1920, two Cardinals coaches have won the NFL Championship: Norman Barry in 1925 and Jimmy Conzelman in 1947. - a comma works better here than the colon.
• Despite this, no coach has yet led the Cardinals to the Super Bowl. (optional reword) Despite this, no coach has yet to lead the Cardinals to the Super Bowl.
• Ernie Nevers and Jimmy Conzelman are the only coaches to have had more than one tenure with the team, and Pop Ivy and Gene Stallings both coached the team during its move from one city to another. - these should be split because they describe two different ideas.
• The worst Cardinals coach statistically is Roy Andrews, with a winning percentage of .000, having lost the only game he coached. - the word "worst" in this context is WP:POV, in addition what year is this?
• Co-coaches Ray Willsey, Ray Prochaska, and Chuck Drulis are statistically the best head coaches, with a winning percentage of 1.000. - "Co-coaches"? They never worked together, so that doesn't work well there. Also, "best" is also WP:POV. In addition, there is no link to winning percentage.
• Of the 36 Cardinal coaches, Guy Chamberlin is the only one to be a member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame, having been inducted in 1965. --> Of the 36 Cardinal coaches, Guy Chamberlin is the only coach to be elected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame, having been inducted in 1965.
• The color in the table should only highlight the coach's name, because it describes only what they did individually.
• Please see List of Tennessee Titans head coaches and List of New Orleans Saints head coaches for a guide in writing the prose.--SRX 15:14, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

All done. The ones that I didn't do were either because I disagreed with them or because they were wrong; for example, there are inline citations in the lead. The first one references everything before it. Also, the three coaches are co-coaches; they coached the team together. Gary King (talk) 02:26, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Why did you disagree with the color format for the table? In addition, the image size needs to be decreased, it is very large.--SRX 14:29, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

I did the colors now. It looks like it's a recent thing; my last head coaches FL didn't require that. The image size is 300px, which is what MOS:IMAGE (it's currently under discussion, but it's been there for a while and is still there right now, so I'll go with it for now. Also, I prefer a bit larger lead image.) Gary King (talk) 17:25, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

• Support - even though there many prose issues, it has been revamped to WP:WIAFL compliance.--SRX 21:12, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Comment from Killervogel5

• "Winningest" needs to goooo....! KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 18:04, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

  Done Gary King (talk) 18:33, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:56, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

• Table needs playoff winning percentage table.
• "Thirteen of the team's coaches are also former Cardinal players."-->Thirteen of the team's coaches are former Cardinals players.
• "Of the 36 Cardinal coaches, Guy Chamberlin is the only coach to be elected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame, having been inducted in 1965."-->Of the 36 Cardinal coaches, Guy Chamberlin is the only coach to have been elected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame, having been inducted in 1965.
• Add (AFL) after "American Football League".
• "Bud Wilkinson (right) with President John F. Kennedy" Specify that Kennedy is a United States President.
• Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:00, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

All done Gary King (talk) 04:04, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:00, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments from -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24

Comments

• Since Bole2 never noticed that you nominated this, I'll just go right ahead and comment on the article.
• I am for sure the Cardinals were never always Cardinal Red and White. Just look at the Chicago Cardinals logo. This means that you should change the colors of the headers to their original color for the teams.
• Chicago, Illinois is a redirect.
• Could you tell the readers why you didn't put the coaches before 1920, since you mentioned that they started in 1901.
• Could you link Cardinal red to Cardinal (color)?
• Could you tell me why you could link Glendale, Arizona twice?
• As I said on the FLC nomination for List of St. Louis Rams head coaches, you should only tell the reader who was elected into the Pro Football Hall of Fame as a coach, since the article is only about the coaches.
• Arnie Horween is a redirect.
• The article is not wikilinked on the Arizona Cardinals navbox template.
• Could you put more pictures of the coaches, and also the stadium they are playing in?

-- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 00:24, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

• • Redirects are not bad in themselves, see WP:REDIRECT#NOTBROKEN. I fixed the overlinking of Glendale. The Cardinals have actually always been cardinal red and white, see this link. Pictures of coaches that are properly licensed/tagged are hard to find. There is no reason to put a picture of the arena on an article about head coaches. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:38, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

• As an aside, I agree with DB87 on this one. As long as there is one image of a coach, that's more than some lists can ask for. When there are absolutely no other available images, then it's recommended to find another topic-related image to replace one of a coach or manager. In this case, one link should be enough, especially considering the width of the table. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 00:43, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

All issues are fixed I believe. I'm not sure if an explanation about starting in 1920 is needed since it's already explained that that's the year in which the team joins a professional league for the first time. Gary King (talk) 00:58, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Then why did you not include the coaches before 1920? -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 02:31, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Because the list begins from when it was a professional team. Gary King (talk) 02:33, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

But you didn't tell the readers that the list begins from when it was a professional team. Also about the stadium image, I don't know who, but someone put on the stadium image on one of the articles I nominated for FLC, so I just kept on the trend. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 02:35, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

• In response... that was me, and I believe it was for Denver. It's because there were no acceptable images for that table. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 02:40, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

I see what you mean; how about this? Gary King (talk) 02:38, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Replying to KV5, since there are no free images to use for this article, then I believe we add the picture of University of Phoenix Stadium? Replying to Gary King, yes that is what I wanted. I also forgot that you didn't tell the readers that the stats are up to the 2007 NFL season. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 02:43, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Done. Regarding the NFL stadium image, since there are so many available for Phoenix stadium, feel free to add whichever one you want to the article. Gary King (talk) 02:46, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

The current image is free and suffices. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 02:49, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

• Support Nice referencing. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 03:03, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Matthewedwards 00:56, 17 December 2008 [9].

---

List of St. Louis Rams head coaches

previous FLC

Hats off to Juliancolton for doing the bulk of the work for the list's first FLC; unfortunately, it failed. I think it's good to go now. Gary King (talk) 23:04, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments from SRX

Oppose - lead/sourcing problems.

• The prose checks out fine grammatically, however, it is very messy and disorganized. Please reorganize so it may follow like the recently promoted FL of List of Tennessee Titans head coaches, or the FLC List of New Orleans Saints head coaches.
• The color in the table should only extend to the coach's name, like in the other lists mentioned above.
• I suggest moving the references for the awards to the award column because it extends the ref column and in addition it makes it confusing as to what is referencing what.
• Is databasefootball reliable? If not, replace with the football-reference.
• What source is verifying the list itself, the stats, etc. Like a general ref?--SRX 23:28, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

All done. Lead should be better now. I typically see the color extend through the entire row, like in List of Tennessee Titans head coaches. I've moved the references, it does indeed look better. I've replaced the references. I've never seen a general referenced used for these types of lists. Gary King (talk) 00:08, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't think a general reference is necessary if everything is individually sourced. –Juliancolton ^{Tropical Cyclone} 01:14, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

In addition, some of the citations need to be linked to their coaching record not their playing record, like Snyder. In addition, the lead still needs work, the first sentence of the lead should go somewhere in the last paragraph, it will be best to follow the leads of the examples I gave above.--SRX 14:59, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Sentence moved. –Juliancolton ^{Tropical Cyclone} 15:46, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Lead expansion? I.e. Coach who has most games played, coach who only served for the Rams. etc.--SRX 00:03, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

The lead already mentions which coach has coached the most games with the team. The coaches who have only served with the Rams are already mentioned in the table. Gary King (talk) 00:51, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

• Support - all issues resolved for compliance to WP:WIAFL.--SRX 14:27, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Comments

• Sources looks good, checked with the Checklinks tool. Cannibaloki 04:42, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Comment

I think you should have asked Juliancolton before nominating, since I think its rude nominating without the main contributor. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 05:29, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Not at all. Gary King did most of the work bringing the article up to standard. –Juliancolton ^{Tropical Cyclone} 05:35, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

But I think you should take hale of the credit, since you edited more than half of the page, while Gary King re-worded sentences and fixed the table. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 05:37, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Comment from Killervogel5

• Get rid of the word "winningest"! Ew. It's in there several times.
  • Done. –Juliancolton ^{Tropical Cyclone} 18:23, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
    • Done. Julian, "winningest" doesn't mean "most wins" :) It's a percentage, so someone can still have very little wins but the highest winning percentage. Gary King (talk) 18:34, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
      • *facepalm* –Juliancolton ^{Tropical Cyclone} 19:49, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:51, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

• The table needs the playoff winning percentages.
• "The team became known as the Los Angeles Rams after they moved to Los Angeles, California in 1946." "they"-->it.
• "During World War II, the Rams suspended operation for the 1943 season because of wartime restrictions and shortages." "suspended operation" sounds like the team was a manafacturing company.
• "The club moved east to St. Louis, Missouri prior to the 1995 season." "prior to"-->before.
• The colors should only highlight the head coaches' names.
• "He served for only one season before he was replaced by Hugo Bezdek."
• "The current coach is Jim Haslett, and is the 25th person to serve in the position."-->Jim Haslett, the current coach, is the 25th person to serve in the position.
• "Scott Linehan, head coach of the St. Louis Rams from 2006–2008" En dash should be "to".
• Sources
  • What makes http://web.archive.org/web/20071010113510/www.footballresearch.com/index.cfm reliable? Dabomb87 (talk) 00:25, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
    • Hm, well there's Professional Football Researchers Association and this. Gary King (talk) 03:55, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
      • Well, I am still a bit uneasy. I found this, which supports some but not all of the info that you were citing. Perhaps use the source I provided for support? Dabomb87 (talk) 13:43, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
        • Okay I've added it. Gary King (talk) 19:37, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

• Support with the obvious conflict of interest. –Juliancolton ^{Tropical Cyclone} 04:28, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments from -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24

Comments

• I think you should merge the second paragraph with the first, since in lists, only the first article is talking about the history of the franchise.
• "There have been 21 head coaches for the Rams franchise." The table has 25.
• The third paragraph is way to small for "List of (team) head coaches" articles. Should include more stats like the playoffs and who won the most games.
• The third paragraph should cite to the general reference, but readers may not know that. Just put the general reference at the end of the paragraph.
• In the article, do you guys know which NFL Coach of the Year award did Adam Walsh won specifically?
• How did you find ref 25?
• The picture should be bigger than 350px, or just thumbed, uprighted, or righted. It says it somewhere in WP:MOS.
• Anaheim Stadium is a redirect.
• "Cleveland, Ohio" --> "Cleveland, Ohio"
• Los Angeles, California is a redirect.
• Do you really have to put Dutch Clark's name as Earl "Dutch" Clark?
• I think you should only list the Pro Football Hall of Fame inductees who were inducted as a coach. Joe Stydahar and Bob Waterfield were not elected into the Pro Football Hall of Fame as a coach.
• Why is there an external link to the St. Louis Rams official site?
• John Robinson (football coach) is a redirect.
• George Allen (NFL) is a redirect.
• When are the statistics up to?

-- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 20:00, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

All done. I didn't do a few as I either disagree with them or think they are incorrect. For instance, I don't think the first two paragraphs need to be merged because they discuss two fairly different topics. I don't have a general reference, so I can't add it to the third paragraph; in any case, if I did, it wouldn't be a "general" reference anymore. The NFL Coach of the Year was the "Pro NFL Coach of the Year"; there began to be more than one Coach of the Year award starting in 1947 (or later, but I know it's not before this), and the award was given in 1945 to this particular coach. Reference 25 I found through an online newspaper database search. I don't think the image needs to be any bigger; MOS says 300px is a good width to use for lead images, but in this case it's a portrait image (height is longer than width), so I think 200px is acceptable. I'm going to leave Anaheim Stadium as a redirect as that was its name at the time; redirects should not always be piped links because there is always the possibility that the redirect is built into its own article. In this particular case, for instance, the redirect could be a new article written about the time when the stadium was still called Anaheim Stadium. Locations should have the city and state separately linked, for people who want to click on one or the other; this is per MOS, I believe, and something that I strongly support. The external link is there because it is pretty relevant and can be useful. Gary King (talk) 21:03, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

• Since you didn't do half of the suggestions I gave you, I'll just Weak support this nomination. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 21:23, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Matthewedwards 00:56, 17 December 2008 [10].

---

List of Detroit Pistons head coaches

I think this list fulfills the FL criteria.—Chris! _ct 23:00, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Comments

• Sources looks good, checked with the Checklinks tool. Cannibaloki 04:40, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments from SRX

Comments

• In 1948, the team was renamed Fort Wayne Pistons and joined the Basketball Association of America (BAA), which merged with the NBL to become the NBA a year later. - there needs to be a transition before "Fort Wayne" like "as the Fort Wayne" or "to the Fort Wayne." In addition, where is the wikilink to the NBA-NBL merger?
• After spending 9 seasons in Fort Wayne, Indiana, Zollner moved the team to Detroit, Michigan in 1957 in order to compete financially with other big city teams. - 9 should be spelled out, it is a common number.
• Table and the rest of the prose checks out fine.--SRX 14:56, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Done all. Article for the BAA-NBL merger or NBA-NBL merger doesn't exist.—Chris! _ct 19:18, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

• Support - all issues resolved for WP:WIAFL compliance.--SRX 00:01, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:52, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

• "Zollner moved the team to Detroit, Michigan in 1957 in order to be able to compete financially with other big city teams."
• Change "W–L %" to Win%.
• "Daly and Larry Brown are the only members of the franchise to be inducted into the Basketball Hall of Fame as coaches"-->Daly and Larry Brown are the only members of the franchise to have been inducted into the Basketball Hall of Fame as coaches...
• "Daly was also selected as the top 10 coaches in NBA history."-->Daly was also selected as on of the top 10 coaches in NBA history.
• "A total of 14 head coaches have spent their entire NBA head coaching careers with the Pistons."-->Fourteen head coaches have spent their entire NBA head coaching careers with the Pistons. Dabomb87 (talk) 03:54, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Done—Chris! _ct 01:27, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 03:54, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Comment Add a playoff winning percentage column. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:05, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Done —Chris! _ct 04:46, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments from -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24

Comments

• "Curly Armstrong, Red Rocha, Dick McGuire, Dave DeBusschere, Donnie Butcher, Terry Dischinger, Earl Lloyd, Scott and Michael Curry formerly played for the team." couldn't this be shortened into "Nine of the Pistons coaches formerly played for the team."?

No, "Nine of the Pistons coaches" is too vague. Reader don't know who they are. Everything else is done.—Chris! _ct 20:39, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

• Align center the numbers on the "#" column.
• I think it's better to link NBA championship to List of NBA champions instead of NBA Finals.

-- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 01:26, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

• Support Nice job with the article. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 06:54, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Matthewedwards 00:56, 17 December 2008 [11].

---

Gaylactic Spectrum Award winners and nominees for best other work

Just the same as the one for novels that passed last week. Table isn't so nice looking as there is more variation in creators & titles, as the list contains numerous media types. But that cannot be helped, so it meets all the criteria of a FL imo, same as the others.Yobmod (talk) 15:12, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Comments Inconsistancies: -capitalization of Other works -Bolding of titles -The titles in quote marks don't sort alphabetically -Publishers should be linked every time in a sortable table, not just first time.Dillypickle (talk) 15:28, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Fixed the capitalisation, went with allways small letters.
Unbolded the titles
Fixed the shorts stories poem sorting using a sortkey.
Linked publishers who are notable,

So i think that is all done!Yobmod (talk) 16:23, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Comments

• Sources looks good, checked with the Checklinks tool. Cannibaloki 00:08, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:59, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

• "This includes but is not limited to: comic books, graphic novels, movies, television episodes, multimedia, anthologies, story collections, gaming products, artwork, and music."
• "The time-frame of eligibilty is based on copyright date for first printing for written works, cover date for magazines and comic books, release date for films, first air date for television." Add and the before "for television".
• "Nicola Griffith has is the only creator to have won the other work award more than once, winning twice for editing anthologies"-->Nicola Griffith is the only creator to have won the other work award more than once, having wontwice for editing anthologies
• "The creators of Buffy the Vampire Slayer have the record for most nominations, with four nominations, one of which won the award."-->The creators of Buffy the Vampire Slayer have the record for most nominations with four, one of which won the award.
• Can we have a better color contrast in the key? Dabomb87 (talk) 23:25, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Made all changes as suggested. For the colour i made the grey much darker, so looks different from lavender. Hope that is what you meant, so i think all are fixed. Thanks!Yobmod (talk) 16:23, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

• "Other works Hall of Fame inductees" What does "NI" mean in the table (put something in the key)? Dabomb87 (talk) 16:29, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Changed the key to include abbreviation of NI (Not inducted).

Resolved comments from SRX

Comments

• The Gaylactic Spectrum Awards are given to works of science fiction, fantasy and horror which explore LGBT (gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender) topics in a positive way. - shouldn't it be (lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender)?
• Each award consists of an etched image on lucite on a stand, using a spiral galaxy in a triangle logo, based on the logo the Gaylactic Network. add of before the Gaylactic Network
• The last paragraph should be expanded to summarize the list more, like who was the first winner, who is the most recent winner, etc.--SRX 00:11, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Changes done as suggested - i added sentences for first and latest winners too. Thanks!Yobmod (talk) 11:29, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

• Support - issues resolved to meet WP:WIAFL.--SRX 22:01, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Matthewedwards 00:56, 17 December 2008 [12].

---

The Cure discography

I have recently brought this discography up to standard and believe it could be a featured list. I will of course address any concerns reviewers have as soon as possible. I've searched high and low through sources (reliable and otherwise) but can't find any reference to the directors of the last four music videos. Thanks, --JD554 (talk) 15:07, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Comments Mostly looks fine, except the recent music videos. They need directors, or a good reason why the info cannot be found. At the moment they don't even have citations to prove they exist.Dillypickle (talk) 15:25, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

I've added references for the existence of the last four videos. I'm afraid the directors will remain blank until a reliable source sees fit to say who they were. But I can't see that being a reason for the list not to be featured as WP:WIAFL #3 does say complete "where practical". --JD554 (talk) 15:50, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

It looks better, although i am still not sure that finding out the directors publicly released videos is sufficiently "impractical". I was suprised that even sites that officialy show the video do not show any information about it (Eg. MTV), so in light of that i will remain neutral. Featured lists do seem to have very low standards compared to other featured content, so it is as good as other FLs.Dillypickle (talk) 08:55, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Comments

• Sources looks good, checked with the Checklinks tool. Cannibaloki 00:14, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Questions

• Shouldn't the videos for "Why Can't I Be You?" and "Catch" list 1987 as their release dates, not 1986?
  • Ah, you're quite right, fixed. --JD554 (talk) 08:48, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
• This one is kind of silly: was or was not "A Night Like This" a single? I have nothing to back this up aside from it having a video and showing up on the singles compilation album, but I always got the impressions it had a single release. WesleyDodds (talk) 09:38, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
  • It was the lead track off the Quadpus EP. --JD554 (talk) 08:48, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
    • Support as a member of WP:ALM. WesleyDodds (talk) 05:33, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Minor comments

• Could you link the music video directors when they have their own articles? (eg: Tim Pope)
  • Linked. It was in an earlier incarnation, must have got lost as I moved things about. --JD554 (talk) 08:48, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
• Aren't "Taking Off" and "alt.end" the same song with differnet names? indopug (talk) 13:01, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Even though they bizarrely share the same article page, they are different tracks and are both included separately on The Cure. --JD554 (talk) 08:48, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:53, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

• "The band has continued through various line-ups, with Smith remaining the group's sole consistent member." The with + -ing sentence structure is awkward. What does "consistent member" mean? I think you mean to say that Smith is the only remaining member from the original lineup.
  • Reworded to The band has continued through various line-ups, with Smith remaining the group's only original member. --JD554 (talk) 08:48, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
• On ref 40, http://www.salineproject.com/, add a note that says that Apple Quicktime is needed to run the video. Dabomb87 (talk) 17:57, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Done. --JD554 (talk) 08:48, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:53, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• Comments. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be that difficult to locate sales figures for the band's records. This is not an indispensable aspect of a discography, but it is not something to be overlooked either. NSR77 ^T 22:03, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
  • The data appears to be something I'd have to subscribe to the BPI to get hold of and, as it's not required, I think I'll save my money ;-) --JD554 (talk) 08:48, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
    • Well I found all the cumulative worldwide sales of Chili Peppers' records for Red Hot Chili Peppers discography. See what you can dig up on the internet; if you can't find anything don't worry about it. I mean, I know the Cure book Never Enough: The Story of The Cure by Jeff Apter has sales figures for some of the band's albums (as of 2005). NSR77 ^T 21:27, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Support - prose and table checks out well compared to WP:WIAFL.--SRX 21:39, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Support as a member of WP:ALM. But a few comments:

• Make that single note in Other appearances a hat note so that you don't need a column just for a single note.
  • Done --JD554 (talk) 09:22, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
• What does the "2×CD" format mean? Not sure I've seen it in other discographies. If it denotes double-disc reissue incl. a bonus CD, remember that we are only interested in the original releases.
  • They are for reissues, so I've removed them. --JD554 (talk) 09:22, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
• Isn't a cassette a CS rather than an MC? And 12 CD box-set is clearer than "12×CD". DD is another confusing one (just digital release is enough, I think)
  • CS actually stands for cassette single (which is used elsewhere in the discography), while MC stands for music cassette. I've changed 12×CD (and the 4×CD) as suggested and I changed DD to Music download. --JD554 (talk) 09:22, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
• In Music videos, why don't you just stick refs 35 and 36 in the Director column header?
  • No particular reason, so I've moved them --JD554 (talk) 09:22, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
• "The following table denotes . . . directly related to the band." is rather unclear. It tool me a while to figure out what "not directly related" meant, I think you could just remove the thing. (Besides i believe self-referential statements like "the following table" is discouraged by MoS.)
  • I have not strong fealings about the section lead so I've removed it. I saw it on a recently FL promoted discography (Diamond Rio discography) so thought it was worth adding. --JD554 (talk) 09:22, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
• Could you get a better pic of the band? This one is a little too . . . blue.
  • They seem to like blue --JD554 (talk) 09:22, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
• "Killing an Arab", "Boys Don't Cry" and "Jumping Someone Else's Train" weren't on the same non-album single were they? If not, split the "Non-album single" cell into three. (happens again, with "Charlotte Sometimes" etc) indopug (talk) 11:54, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
  • As the header to the column says "Album", I think it's clear they're not on the same non-album single. --JD554 (talk) 09:22, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Matthewedwards 00:56, 17 December 2008 [13].

---

List of Washington Capitals head coaches

Though I just 5x expanded this article 30 minutes ago (or less than that), I do believe that this article is ready for this promotion. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 04:07, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comment from SRX

Comment - wow 30 mins of work leads to an excellent list, except for one thing.

• Bryan Murray and Bruce Boudreau are the Capitals coaches to have each won the Jack Adams Award. - only needs to be added before Capitals.--SRX 22:45, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

DONE -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 23:24, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 04:09, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

• "formerly known as MCI Center"-->formerly known as the MCI Center
• "The Capitals are owned by Ted Leonsis, with George McPhee as their general manager." "with"-->and.

Are you sure? Wouldn't readers think that George McPhee is also a owner? "The Capitals are owned by Ted Leonsis, and George McPhee as their general manager." Doesn't sound right. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 02:28, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I meant "The Capitals are owned by Ted Leonsis, and George McPhee is their general manager."

That sounds more reasonable. DONE -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 02:39, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

• "Ron Wilson is the only coach to win an Prince of Wales Trophy with the Capitals," "an"-->a.
• "Bryan Murray and Bruce Boudreau are the only Capitals coaches to have each won the Jack Adams Award."
• Sources: What makes http://proicehockey.about.com/od/rules/a/shootout_debate_2.htm a reliable source?

It's part of About.com. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 02:28, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

About.com is not necessarily reliable, I asked User:Ealdgyth to put in her opinion here. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:36, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I'll just wait for Ealdgyth's reply until I do something about it. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 02:39, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

About.com is not reliable, so you should replace it.—Chris! _ct 03:18, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Can you tell me why About.com isn't reliable? -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 03:20, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 16#Huffington Post.2C_Gawker_and_About.com; generally, About.com is not considered reliable because anyone can write for the website; there is no fact checking or editorial oversight; the reliability of the page depends on whether the author meets WP:SPS as an expert. Why don't you use the official rules from NHL.com? Dabomb87 (talk) 03:29, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Changed ref. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 03:45, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Dabomb87 (talk) 02:02, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

DONE the ones without comments. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 02:28, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 04:09, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments by Chrishomingtang

Comment

• "Roger Crozier is the franchise's all-time leader for the least regular-season games coached (1), the least regular-season game wins (0), and the least regular-season points (0), as he only coached one game in his entire Capitals coaching career." Read like a run on sentence to me. Need to reword

Can you suggest a rewording? -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 03:29, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Maybe just say Roger Crozier, who has only coached one game for the Capitals, is the franchise's all-time leader for the least regular-season game wins (0) and the least regular-season points (0). Or something similar.—Chris! _ct 04:52, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

DONE, but removed the least regular season wins one. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 04:59, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

• "Bryan Murray and Bruce Boudreau are the only Capitals coaches to have each won the Jack Adams Award." Remove "each"

DONE -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 03:29, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

• Jack Adams Award in the table need refs

Look at the column heading, "Achievements". -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 03:29, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, either place all the refs at the column heading like ref 6, or place them all next to award names like ref 4.—Chris! _ct 05:43, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

DONE -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 06:04, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

• The About.com ref issue need to be resolved.
  • SRE replaced that reference with the official rulebook. Dabomb87 (talk) 04:09, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

—Chris! _ct 03:26, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

• Support —Chris! _ct 07:25, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Comments

• Sources looks good, checked with the Checklinks tool. Cannibaloki 00:15, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Support Comment from Nurmsook (talk · contribs)

• In the lead, should you link head coaches to Coach (ice hockey) rather than head coach? – Nurmsook! ^talk... 01:45, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Both would be fine, but I would like to wikilink it to Head coach because Coach (ice hockey) refers to both the head and the assistant coaches. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 02:33, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• Further comments
  • Make sure all season articles have endashes in the link, I noticed a couple that simply use a hyphen, thus linking to a dab page. Also, the "stats as of 2007–08" link links to the NBA article, not the NHL one as it should. Be careful with this, I've caught it on a few other of these articles as well.
  • Could you switch the html endashes and emdashes to simply the symbols (– and —). This will reduce bandwidth and load time of the page. – Nurmsook! ^talk... 17:29, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

DONE all. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 23:56, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Comment Add a playoff winning percentage column. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:04, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

DONE -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 01:34, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Matthewedwards 00:56, 17 December 2008 [14].

---

List of Los Angeles Dodgers Opening Day starting pitchers

I believe this meets the Featured List criteria, similar to other featured lists of this type, such as List of Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim Opening Day starting pitchers and List of Kansas City Royals Opening Day starting pitchers. Rlendog (talk) 03:06, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments from SRX

Oppose from SRX

• The second and third paragraphs need to be merged into one.
• Drysdale would make seven Opening Day starts for the Dodgers in the 1950s and 1960s, a team record. - how about, ..would make seven more Opening Day starts In addition, why not give an actual exact time, i.e. 2004-2008 or from 2004 to 2008.
• Drysdale would make seven Opening Day starts for the Dodgers in the 1950s and 1960s, a team record. Fellow Hall of Fame pitcher Don Sutton shares this record with seven Opening Day starts accumulated during the 1970s. merge these. a team record shared with Don Sutton, who accumulated them from (exact time)
• The other Los Angeles Dodgers pitchers with at least four Opening Day starts are Fernando Valenzuela, who made six such starts in the 1980s, Ramon Martinez, who made five such starts in the 1990s, and Orel Hershiser, who made four Opening Day starts from 1987 through 1994. -> Fernando Valenzuela, Ramon Martinez, and Orel Hershiser have had at least four Opening Day starts, with 6, 5, and 4, respectively.
• Merge the last 3 paragraphs into one instead of small individual ones.
• Can a different symbol be used instead of #? Like a dagger or something.
• The color coding should only be on the players name due to the unappealing appearance, see List of New Orleans Saints head coaches.
• Who is the publisher for the general ref?--SRX 22:41, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Addressed all but the color coding comment. I addressed the "merge the last 3 paragraphs into one" slightly differently than suggested, in a manner that I think flows better. With respect to the color coding comment, personally I don't find the appearance unappealing, but will revise if there is a consensus to do so. But I don't think there is, since all the other Featured Lists of this type use the color coding used here. In additon to the lists listed in the lead, there are also List of New York Mets Opening Day starting pitchers, List of New York Yankees Opening Day starting pitchers, List of Seattle Mariners Opening Day starting pitchers, List of Minnesota Twins Opening Day starting pitchers, List of Boston Red Sox Opening Day starting pitchers and others. I think the color coding suggested works well for List of New Orleans Saints head coaches since the information subject to the color coding is very specific to the coach, while in this case the color is related to the team performance in the season. Rlendog (talk) 02:57, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

• Support - my issues were resolved to meet WP:WIAFL.--SRX 21:16, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Comments

• Sources looks good, checked with the Checklinks tool. Cannibaloki 00:17, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Support I did make some fixes, but this is another very good baseball list that meets all criteria. Dabomb87 (talk) 17:47, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 17:48, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments from -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24

Comments

• "California native Don Drysdale..." Where's the reference?

• Added reference Rlendog (talk) 19:57, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

• "Dodgers starting pitchers won both of their Opening Day starts in their first home ballpark in Los Angeles, Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum." You could tell the readers the Don Drysdale was the only one to have pitched and won there.

• That seems more like trivia. If anyone is interested, the information is available right on the list. Rlendog (talk) 19:57, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

• "...with Don Sutton who accumulated then from..." then --> them.

• Fixed. Rlendog (talk) 19:57, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

• "...only made one Opening Day start in 1964." --> "only made one Opening Day start with the Dodgers in 1964."

• Not sure I see what you are getting at. The article is about the Dodgers and Koufax only pitched for the Dodgers. I added a comma before "in 1964", which may clarify the sentence. Rlendog (talk) 19:57, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

• Some readers won't know that Koufax only pitched for the Dodgers. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 20:26, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

• Done. Rlendog (talk) 18:35, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

• "Fernando Valenzuela, Ramon Martinez and Derek Lowe share..." remove Fernando and Ramon.

• Done. Rlendog (talk) 19:57, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

• "The starting pitcher won the Opening Day game in 1965 and 1981, but lost in 1959, 1962 and 1988." be more specific as I was confused the first time I read it.

• Reworded slightly. Hopefully that clarifies. Rlendog (talk) 19:57, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

• Bold the whole left side of the key except for the last three, since They are bold on the table.

• Not sure this is necessary, and would be inconsistent with other similar featured lists, such as List of Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim Opening Day starting pitchers and List of San Diego Padres Opening Day starting pitchers, among others, and other non-related featured lists, such as List of Los Angeles Lakers first and second round draft picks. Rlendog (talk) 19:57, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

• But it is in all the "List of (team) head coaches" articles. Also, comprehensiveness matters more than consistency. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 20:26, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

• I was going to do this, but actually the "W", "L", etc. shouldn't be bolded, which would leave only 3 or 4 items on the key bolded, which I don't think would look good. I am not sure how bolding those items would improve the list's comprehensiveness. Rlendog (talk) 18:36, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

• Can you sort the "Decision" column by W, L, and then ND instead of sorting it alphabetically?

• Again, I'm not sure what this adds, and would be inconsistent with the other similar lists, such as List of Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim Opening Day starting pitchers and List of San Diego Padres Opening Day starting pitchers, among others. Rlendog (talk) 19:57, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

• I just think that sorting it by W, L, and then ND would look better, but it was only a suggestion.

• Add the Baseball-Reference of the table onto the "General" references.

• I see your point, but the way it is the decisions sort out nicely from worst (a loss), through next worst (no decision where the team loses) to pretty good (no decision where the team wins) through best (a win). And if a user wants to switch from best to worst, s/he can just hit the sort button again to reverse the order. Rlendog (talk) 18:35, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

• Not sure what the issue is here. All the references are specific in-line citations except for the item already listed under "General References" Rlendog (talk) 19:57, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

• These aren't issues, these are comments and suggestions. Also, the baseball-reference IS a general reference. That is why it should be on the general references. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 20:26, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

• Done.

• Ref 14 has a wrong title. I also don't think Baseball Almanac is a reliable source of information.

• Changed the title. Not sure why Baseball Almanac would not be a reliable source. Rlendog (talk) 19:57, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

• I'll ask Dabomb87 about that. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 20:26, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

• If you look at my talk page by clicking the number 24 on my signature, you'll see that Dabomb replied about Baseball-Almanac, if it is reliable or not. We cannot tell that the source is reliable as we don't know where they got the information from. That is why I don't believe it is a reliable source of information. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 21:29, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

• I removed the reference. Rlendog (talk) 22:40, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

• The article isn't wikilinked on the "Los Angeles Dodgers" navbox.

• Added link. Rlendog (talk) 19:57, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

• Bob Miller (1957-1974 pitcher) redirects.

• Fixed. Rlendog (talk) 19:57, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

• Ramon Martinez (pitcher) redirects.

• Fixed. Rlendog (talk) 19:57, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

• Check all the the article to see if there are any redirects.

-- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 02:44, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

• Support Good luck with all the other "List of (MLB team) Opening Day starting pitchers" articles. If you look here, you can easily see which of those articles need to be written. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 22:43, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Comment

• I just want to know, why was the article split into the Brooklyn side, and the Los Angeles side? -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 04:15, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

• There are a number of reasons why I felt it would be better to split the list. Dodger history goes a long way back, and a list with over 100 years can be unwieldy. The move to LA took place pretty much in the middle of Dodger history, and thus was a natural breakpoint. It also works well for this particular list, since none of the pitchers who made an Opening Day start in Brooklyn made an Opening Day start in LA (I made a similar break for the Giants; there the break is not quite as clean, as one picther who made several Opening Day starts in NY also made one in SF). Another reason was more practical. There is a lot more information available for the last 50 years than earlier. In particular, while information as to how the team did on Opening Day is available at least back to 1900, information about individual pitchers' decisions in those starts is less readily available. Thus lists like List of Boston Red Sox Opening Day starting pitchers have had to use the team result for the decision, rather than the pitcher's decision (admittedly, going back in history the starting pitcher almost always got the decision). I had to make that compromise for the Brooklyn Dodgers list, but not the LA Dodgers list. Rlendog (talk) 21:07, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Matthewedwards 00:56, 17 December 2008 [15].

---

List of Joking Apart episodes

Self-nomination. The article seems to fulfill all of the criteria. Any objections should be minor and easily addressable. Article is well-referenced and not controversial. The only image is free. This is a companion article to Joking Apart, which has recently been promoted to FA.
Constructive criticism is always welcome when it is offered in a polite, collaborative manner. The JPS^{talk to me} 23:16, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 18:22, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

• Please note that we do not start lists "This is a list of..." anymore. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:25, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Done. The JPS^{talk to me} 15:08, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
• "Joking Apart is a BBC television sitcom." "BBC television"-->BBC Television.
• "The show was produced by Andre Ptaszynski for independent production company Pola Jones" the independent production company.
• "All 12 episodes across two series were written by Steven Moffat and directed by Bob Spiers."-->All twelve episodes from the two series were written by Steven Moffat and directed by Bob Spiers.
• "The show is semi-autobiographical, being inspired by the then-recent separation of Moffat and his first wife."-->The show is semi-autobiographical; it was inspired by the then-recent separation of Moffat and his first wife.
• "Scheduling problems meant that the show attracted low viewing figures."-->Scheduling problems led to low viewing figures.
• "The release is notable because a fan bought the rights from 2Entertain, " Isn't everything mentioned in this article "notable"?
• "Set six months after the end of series one, Mark meets Becky in a newsagents where he is purchasing pornographic magazines." Comma after "newsagents", wikilink "newsagents".
• "and Michael hides in the bathroom when the latter couple return." "return"-->returns.

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 17:29, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Done, thank you. The JPS^{talk to me} 18:01, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 17:29, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Comments. From where were the airdates sourced? If one extensive source, could be cited in the column header. Otherwise each date needs a cite. The episodes didn't have titles?Dillypickle (talk) 15:36, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Done, both in lead and the column headers for each series. And, nope, the episodes didn't have titles. The JPS^{talk to me} 20:47, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Comments

• Sources looks good, checked with the Checklinks tool. Cannibaloki 00:22, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Matthewedwards 00:56, 17 December 2008 [16].

---

Heroic Age of Antarctic Exploration

This list is an attempt to provide context to the growing number of Antarctic expedition articles within Wikipedia. Although individually organised, with their own objectives, the 16 expeditions of the "Heroic Age", listed here, were part of a common endeavour – the discovery and opening up of the continent of Antarctica, in a concentrated period of activity. A subsidiary list provides details of the explorers who died during this endeavour. This could possibly be hived off and linked to the main list, but I would prefer not to do this if possible. Brianboulton (talk) 22:04, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Comments

• "an era which extended from the close of the Victorian epoch to the years immediately following the end of the First World War." Could you give dates so that the readers unfamiliar with one or both periods?
  • It's difficult to give actual dates, because opinions differ over the start and finish, but I have altered the text to read "...close of the 19th century to the early 1920s." Brianboulton (talk) 18:15, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
• I'm a bit concerned over comma usage. It seems a bit excessive in places:
  • "a lecture given to the Royal Geographical Society in London, in 1893, by Professor John Murray of the Challenger oceanographical expedition, 1872–76." --> "a lecture given to the Royal Geographical Society in London in 1893, by Professor John Murray of the Challenger oceanographical expedition (1872–76)."
  • "In August 1895, at the Sixth International Geographical Congress, also in London," first comma is unnecessary, I think
    • I've adopted your punctuation for the first sentence and rewritten the second to eliminate commas altogether! I've also checked the rest of the text; I can't see any more obvious overuse of commas but I'll keep looking. (Trouble is, some editors like commas and complain I don't use them enough.) Brianboulton (talk) 18:15, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
• "Most histories consider that the era extended for the quarter-century until Shackleton's final expedition in 1921–22, although some define it more narrowly, as between 1901 and 1917." Ref 4 supports the claim that it began in 1901, and ended in 1922.. Where are the references to support 1917? Where are the sources to support "most histories"?
  • Changed "most" to "some" - too difficult to prove "most". I've also chopped this section, which deals with the origins and beginnings of the Heroic Age and shouldn't be concerned with when it ended. That discussion belongs in a later section, where I have reorganised the text and added to the references.
• Are the flags necessary for country? What do they offer, besides colour, that the words themselves don't?
  • I suppose they are not absolutely necessary, but that is true of most images, isn't it? Flags appear on almost every featured list I've seen that has an international content. In this case, since the expeditions were very much flag-carrying affairs, I think there is every justification for keeping them. Brianboulton (talk) 18:15, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
• "This was the first expedition to winter", "The first expedition to overwinter": What does "to winter"/"overwinter" mean?
  • They mean the same thing - to spend the winter in a particular place. I've changed "winter" to "overwinter" for consistency, and linked the term. Brianboulton (talk) 18:15, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
• Full stop and the end of the sentence of the first expedition summary.
  • Fixed
• "United Kingdom" in the first table, "U.K." in the second. It would be nice to have consistency. If not, it should be "UK", per Wikipedia:MOS#Acronyms and abbreviations and MOS:ABBR.
  • The flag template produces "United Kingdom" in full and I assume it can't be changed. So for consistency's sake I've changed UK in the second table to United Kingdom .Brianboulton (talk) 18:15, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
    • (later) But see below; someone has showed me how to fix this and so it is now UK in both tables. Brianboulton (talk) 13:57, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
• There are 6 deaths listed for the Terra Nova Expedition, but the expedition summary box says "Scott and four companions". Where did the sixth guy come from?
  • The "deaths" table indicates that he drowned in New Zealand, where the expedition ship was overwintering. Brianboulton (talk) 18:15, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
• "Slicing the Silence: voyaging to Antarctica" I think "voyaging" should be with a capital V, no?
  • Yes. I've also added the book into the list of sources. Brianboulton (talk) 18:15, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
• Referencing:
  • Ref 4 needs formatting correctly
    • Done'
  • Refs 3, 6, 20, etc, give "www.south-pole.com" as the website name, but according to the site it should be "South-Pole.com" ***Fixed
  • Same with "www.anta.canterbury.ac.nz" --> "University of Canterbury"
    • Fixed
  • "www.coolantarctica.com" --> "Cool Antarctica"
    • Fixed
  • "www.norway.org.uk" --> "Embassy of Norway"
    • Fixed
  • "www.ast.leeds.ac.uk" --> University of Leeds
    • Got rid of it - site content seems to have changed
  • What makes http://www.south-pole.com a reliable source?
    • I have some reservations myself, which is why I only use it in conjunction with other sources, never as the sole source. On the face of it, it is an admirable resource, covering every significant Antarctic expedition since before Captain Cook, with excellent pictures, good suplementary reading lists and some admirable material, particularly that relating to postal services in relation to Antarctic expeditions. My main reservation is that I can't find out who's behind it. Also, its prose is a bit journalistic and sensational at times. I'd be sorry to lose it altogether, but I suppose it could be demoted to External links? However, as I say, everything cited to it is cited to somewhere else. Brianboulton (talk) 19:53, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
      • PS But see comments under Sources review, below Brianboulton (talk) 07:53, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
  • What makes http://www.coolantarctica.com a reliable source?
    • Another multi-purpose site, but this time we know who's behind it - Paul Ward, a teacher and marine biologist, a former member of the British Antarctic Survey Team. The site is very well regarded, having been selected as the "world's best Antarctic website" (see here) I'm not sure of the status of this accolade, but the site is used as a source on other sites, for example this and this. I have no doubts about this site as a reliable source. Brianboulton (talk) 19:53, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

• • Note: I have not been checked any other references for reliability.

Looks good, but not there just yet, I think. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 05:11, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your comments. I believe I have answered them all; please let me know if there are still points outstanding. Brianboulton (talk) 19:53, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Comments. List look OK. I would use UK throughout, especially in the second table, where united on one line, then kingdom, looks poor. Most of the improvement is needed in the introduction, which needs more extensive citing. If the lead is not summarising the article text, then it should be cited, which generally means leads for FLs should always be cited, as thelead is an introduction instead of a summary.Dillypickle (talk) 15:45, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

• On your first point, I had "U.K" in the second table, but changed it for consistency's sake. I could only have "U.K" in both tables by giving the flags up, because the template yields "United Kingdom". As explained above, I don't want to lose the flags, so if consistency is required, it's got to be the longer form in both tables. Personally, I would see nothing wrong with reverting to "UK" in the second table and leaving the main table alone. On my screen display, incidentally, the words "United Kingdom" do appear on a single line.
  • Technically, you could use Template:Flagicon: UK. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 23:49, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
    • Thank you - I wasn't aware of this. I have now used U.K. in both tables, so there is consistency, and no reason to ditch the flags. Brianboulton (talk) 09:45, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
• Second point: I have added citations to sentences in the lead which I thought were not covered, or not covered adequately, by the citations in the text. Please let me know if you think there are other statements in the lead that require similar specific citation.

Thank you for your helpful comments. Brianboulton (talk) 01:05, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Comment: Many of your links to individual ships go to disambiguation pages instead. Otherwise good work, I'll put in a proper review over the weekend.--Jackyd101 (talk) 15:02, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

All ship links sorted out now. Thank you, Brianboulton (talk) 19:43, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Support An excellent article that forms a very interesting summary of the events and the period. I was particularly looking for an explanation of how the boundaries of the age were defined and also an explanation of the potentially "peacock" term Heroic. I was thus very pleased to see well reasoned explanations of both. My minor suggestions are to create an article for each of the ships involved and also to seperate the references into book sources and web sources under third level headings. Very good work.--Jackyd101 (talk) 21:35, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your support and suggestions. The ships would have to be a long term project, but it would be great fun to do. I've separated the books and the web sources in the sources list, with e-books in the web section. The web sources do not all format in the same way, because some have authors and others not. However, if you think it an improvement I'm happy for it to stay. Brianboulton (talk) 00:51, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

I would actually suggest putting the e-books in the books section since that is the way they are formatted, however I leave the style of it up to you (and if you disagreed with my original suggestion I wouldn't hold it against you or the article).--Jackyd101 (talk) 18:26, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Its just occurred to me, but your German flag is anachronistic, you want German Empire instead (or Germany).--Jackyd101 (talk) 00:03, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Comments on sources

• Sources looks good, checked with the Checklinks tool. Cannibaloki 02:12, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Not quite, see my comments. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:42, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
    • Sources are good now. Dabomb87 (talk) 17:05, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 17:04, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs) A well-written and interesting article. Suggestions:

• "During this relatively short period the Antarctic " Relatively short compared to what? Comma after "period".
  • Changed "relatively short period" to "25-year period". No comma necessary after period. Brianboulton (talk) 00:24, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
• "The common factor in all these expeditions was the limited nature of the resources available to them, before advances in transport and communication technologies revolutionised the work of exploration." Also, I don't think the comma is necessary.
  • "all" and comma deleted. Brianboulton (talk) 00:24, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
• "by Professor John Murray of the Challenger oceanographical expedition 1872–76" Is 1872–1876 part of the title?
  • No, some words got lost, now restored to text:"...expedition, which had sailed to Antarctic waters in 1872–76". Brianboulton (talk) 00:24, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
• "During his address Borchgrevink outlined plans for a full-scale pioneering Antarctic expedition, to be based at Cape Adare." Comma after "address".
  • Done Brianboulton (talk) 00:24, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
• "However, the Heroic Age was inaugurated by an expedition launched by the Belgian Geographical Society in 1897, Borchgrevink following a year later with a privately sponsored expedition."-->However, the Heroic Age was inaugurated by an expedition launched by the Belgian Geographical Society in 1897; Borchgrevink followed a year later with a privately sponsored expedition.
  • Amended per your version. Brianboulton (talk) 00:24, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
• "The designation "heroic age" came later; the term does not occur in any of the early expedition " Terms do not "occur", they are written or used.
  • Changed "does not occur" to "is not used" Brianboulton (talk) 00:24, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
• "It is not clear when the term was first coined or adopted generally; it occurs in an article by the British explorer Duncan Carse in The Times" Same as above.
  • "occurs" changed per above. Brianboulton (talk) 00:24, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
• "British explorer Duncan Carse in The Times, in March 1956."-->British explorer Duncan Carse in March 1956 edition of The Times. This suggestion is of personal preference, I think the elimination of the repetition of "in" supercedes the slightly increased wordiness.
  • Sentence reorganized to further reduce wordiness. Brianboulton (talk) 00:24, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
• Some terms are overlinked in the tables {Auora, Ross Ice Shelf, etc.).
  • Repeat links removed from tables. I have linked first mention of the terms in each of the two tables. Brianboulton (talk) 00:24, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
• "These included wireless, an electically heated crow's nest and an "odograph" which could trace and " I think "which" should be that.
  • Done
• Sources:
  • WRT to http://www.south-pole.com/, you might as well make it an external link. Removing it from the source list shouldn't have any other effects because as you said, "everything cited to it is cited to somewhere else."
    • Well, I could do this. But I have just discovered, via this, that SouthPole.com has the blessings of the Scott Polar Research Institute. From their Index of Antarctica page you get links to what SPRI calls "the best" expedition summaries, and these links take us to the South-Pole.com pages. I'd say that SPRI's blessing is enough for them to be taken as reliable. Brianboulton (talk) 00:24, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
  • What does (First Burial) signify on Ref 55?
    • Its a section heading in the site, full name First Burial on the Continent. I have amended the reference
  • Some of your web sources need publication dates (sometimes they are written as date of last update). For example, http://www.adb.online.anu.edu.au/biogs/A100444b.htmd/ http://www.heritage-antarctica.org/english/ExpeditionMembersContinued/ needs a publication date (last update date). Dabomb87 (talk) 21:42, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
    • Dates added to all web sources, except in a couple of cases were no dates are given. Brianboulton (talk) 00:24, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments & the help in improving this. Brianboulton (talk) 00:24, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Comment

• It is a shame, but some of these images may need to go. Image:DrWSBruce1905.jpg will do, as I doubt a fair use claim is justifiable here. Also some of the licensing tags might not be correct, so i'd recommend asking an experienced image reviewer like User:David Fuchs to take a look at the images. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 00:16, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• • Can you indicate which images, apart from Bruce, you are questioning? Alternatives might be possible. Also which licensing tags you think are incorrect? Bruce is a problem, in that I'm pretty sure no free image exists anywhere. Probably it's no FU, no Bruce. Brianboulton (talk) 09:54, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

For the sake of clarity, is the above image the only fair use image used in the article? I'm afraid I am not sufficiently versed in the rules governing fair use to comment on whether the image should or shouldn't be removed as according to wikipolicies, but from an aesthetic point of view it would certainly be a shame if this or other images had to go. Its removal or not would not affect my support either way however.--Jackyd101 (talk) 18:20, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

To clarify, Bruce is the only fair use image. I don't know what the other image queries are. Wikipedia allows use of non-free images considered essential to the article, or the reader's understanding of it, provided no free version are available or can be made. Thus the Bruce image was approved on his biographical article and on his expedition article, there being no free versions to be had. As Bruce is not the focus of this article, merely an important element of it, the image's free use may be considered unjustified. But we must await the comments of an image reviewer. Thank you, anyway, for your comment. Brianboulton (talk) 23:58, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• Further comments from Rambo's Revenge as requested by me. Brianboulton (talk) 00:12, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

The world of images is a bit of a minefield to me. However having observed other image reviews I will outline anything that might be problematic. I may me completely wrong about all of these, and this is just my opinion when trying to be as picky as possible. Being inexperienced with images I have replied here and not on the FLC page.

• Image:DrWSBruce1905.jpg - this is the only one I am sure about. It has to go as it fails WP:NFCC #8 Significance.
• Image:AeneasMack.jpg, Image:Shackletonold.jpg, Image:Scottski.jpg, Image:Shackletonhead.jpg - only PD if first published in the US prior to January 1, 1923. The rationale only mentions publication in London. I believe these can be used if the tag is changed to {{PD-US-1923-abroad}}.

I've added details of the first US publication which was 1920. Brianboulton (talk) 23:28, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• Image:Otto Nordenskjöld.jpg, date unknown. So cannot confirm first publication and that it is PD.
• For images marked with "No known restrictions on publication", like {{PD-Bain}} the site states that "These facts do not mean the image is in the public domain"[17], so can these be used?

Rambo's Revenge (talk) 22:59, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

On the basis of the above comments the queried images, apart from Bruce, are:-

• Nordenskjold, because the publication date is unknown and PD cannot therefore be confirmed.
• Charcot, a Library of Congress photograph from the Bain collection. As stated above, the site says "These facts do not mean the image is in the public domain...", but this statement goes on: "...but do indicate that no evidence has been found to show that restrictions [on publication, distribution etc] apply". This seems pretty conclusive to me—the image may be used, but should further evidence be found, restrictions can be imposed.
• Filchner, another from the Bain collection, so the Charcot remarks apply.

On this basis I will remove Bruce, and also Nordenskjold until/unless I can establish original publication. I will leave the others in place until further confirmation is available. Brianboulton (talk)

(Later) I have also removed the repeated Charcot and Shackleton images, which makes the missing images look less isolated, I think. Brianboulton (talk) 00:22, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Comments

• In order to be free for our purposes, an image must be public domain in the United States; as such, Image:Douglas Mawson.jpg needs an additional template; same with Image:Nobu Shirase.jpg
• Image:Jean-Baptiste Charcot.jpg can't be listed as pd

--Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^(talk) 13:46, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

OK.

• • No problem with Mawson, the photograph was published in the US in 1915 and I have added the template.
  • Shirase: no more information than that on the existing template. I can't confirm publication in the US o I'll take the picture out.
  • Charcot: your comment is cryptic. Does the unwritten part of the sentence continue "and must therefore be withdrawn"? Clarification, please.
  • Finally, does this complete your image review?

Thanks for your time,anyway. Brianboulton (talk) 16:45, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

• • • I think that takes care of all my otherconcerns; for the Baptiste image, you have a LoC no restrictions template and then a pd-template per work of the US gov't. It doesn't appear to be the work of the US gov't, and either way you should only have one of the licenses (the first one.) --Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^(talk) 17:02, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Note for reviewers: In view of the loss of some images from the main table, and the possible impression this may have on readers about the relative importances of expeditions, would it be a good idea to remove all the images from the table, and have a gallery of a few selected images at the end? I've tried this in a sandbox - please see for yourself at User:Brianboulton/Sandbox4. Advantages: uniformity in the table, number of images in the gallery can be varied without disturbing the table. Disadvantage: Images distanced from their text. And I've got a feeling that WP doesn't like galleries. But I'd be interested to hear what people think. Brianboulton (talk) 18:11, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't mind image galleries, but if you did it, is it possible to centralise the gallery instead of having it at the left side of the page? Also, it's UK, not U.K. or U.K. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 00:08, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Fixed the UKs. I am investigating WP:GALLERY to see if it is possible to centralise (I know nothing about galleries so any advice is welcome). The question is, does the list look better with a gallery than with the partial set of pics in the list? If the consensus is that it doesn't, then I won't spend hours on the gallery option. Brianboulton (talk) 01:03, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

The gallery is now centred. I will shortly transfer it here, so that reviewers can see it in full context. I think it presents better than the intermittent images at present in the list. Brianboulton (talk) 17:15, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

(Later) I have uncovered a source which will provide PD images for some of the missing faces, so I am holding off on the gallery for a bit. Brianboulton (talk) 18:19, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

The list now has images in every slot. I am awaiting confirmation of the licensing details on Charcot, that is all. Brianboulton (talk) 17:25, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

None of the image reviewers I have approached has identified problems with the images as they now stand, however reluctant they are to come to the page and say so. I have done all I can to meet image queries, and am satisfied that all is in order on that front. The article/list should be judged as it is. Brianboulton (talk) 16:38, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Matthewedwards 00:56, 17 December 2008 [18].

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List of states and union territories of India by population

Nominating this list as I think this meets all the FL criteria. I have completed a peer review from Nichalp and done significant changes as per the suggestions. I have used List of Canadian provinces and territories by population (a FL) as guideline. This is my first nomination for FA/FL so please excuse me for my mistakes. I would try to address any objections to the best of my capacity. Please list down any objections in bullet points as it would help me address them individually and update the status when they are addressed. --GPPande talk! 14:48, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

• Support-Good --Irmela08 21:32, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

• Comment We do not start lists as This is a list of ... anymore. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:02, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

I have removed the initial line and clubbed the entire introduction of Census of India into a small paragraph below first one. --GPPande talk! 08:54, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Comments

• Sources looks good, checked with the Checklinks tool. Cannibaloki 02:19, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

• Comment -- Prose needs a copyedit. =Nichalp «Talk»= 05:05, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Check now. Let me know if you meant something specific. --GPPande talk! 15:15, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

In the decade of 1991–2001, interstate migration to larger cities led to rapid increase in India's urban population. -- this need not be true. States such as UP & Maharashtra also has witnessed a large instate migration. Needs figures. Suggest this be copyedited by someone from the league of copyeditors. =Nichalp «Talk»= 18:04, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Valid and true. I myself being an example of intrastate migrant. I have removed interstate word and rephrased the sentence as In the decade of 1991–2001, migration to larger cities such as Pune and Bangalore led to rapid increase in India's urban population. I took this fact from Census of India website and so did not doubt it. Included Pune and Bangalore as an example with 2 new refs added. For migration to other cities Census citation should suffice. Let me know your thoughts. --GPPande talk! 20:10, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm not very happy with the quality of the prose. I can't pinpoint specific examples, but I suggest you contact an independent copyeditor to fix issues. =Nichalp «Talk»= 02:43, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Sure. I would seek expert's help here. Meanwhile, I tried my hand on it. See here. Not sure, if this will make the FLC void as of now. I think FL candidature should remain active for more comments and result while I work on prose part. --GPPande 10:35, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

I copyedited a bit, and yeah, it does need a copyedit. I suggest working on the rest of the paragraphs to fix similar issues like what I've done in the first two paragraphs. In particular, I think commas aren't used enough; there are a lot of run-on sentences because of this. Gary King (talk) 19:31, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

• Comment In the last paragraph of the lead, the discussion on child sex ratio seems unnecessarily lengthy, given child sex ratio does not even feature in the list proper. I am not opposing the inclusion of such a discussion (because child sex ratio is a part of overall sex ratio), but can it be decreased?

Indeed, IMO, it is not necessary to devote one whole paragraph to sex ratio. Rather, we can decrease the content of discussion on sex ratio, and, if needed, add some content on population density (which seems to be missing from the lead).--Dwaipayan (talk) 22:12, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Reply to Nichalp and Dwaipayanc:

• Gary helped with this article. I have made a small section in prose for census information which would elaborate the tabular data below. Also did similar c/e as per Gary.
• Removed the excess information on child sex ratio.
• Included density data for India in lead based on geo-regions. This information explains why certain states have so high density than other at a high level.
• Included highlights of state growth rates.

Feel free to tell if more improvements are needed. --GPPande 13:07, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Almost there;

Remove the child sex ratio red link, increase the width of the second column (the names of the states are all cramped up), decrease the width of the third column. (You would need to abbreviate the headings most probably to achieve it) =Nichalp «Talk»= 14:02, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Done. Created article Child sex ratio and abbreviated the headings to suit column widths. --GPPande 18:47, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Support Remove the flag at the bottom of the table, and see if you can set a % to the name of the state column -- it still looks cramped. =Nichalp «Talk»= 19:13, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for helping with column width. I replaced template IND with text India. --GPPande 07:16, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Support--Dwaipayan (talk) 00:27, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Matthewedwards 00:52, 14 December 2008 (UTC) [19].

---

List of Nobel Laureates

Nominating with User:Scorpion0422. Main article of our Nobel Laureates FT. — sephiroth bcr ^(converse) 23:59, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

• Comments I would like the table to be sortable. Also, in instances where more than one person won a prize, there is no distinguishing between the two names within the box. There are just a few words all in blue; maybe a semicolon to separate conjoined names? Beyond that it is an excellent list and I support. Reywas92^Talk 04:12, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

• Done. — sephiroth bcr ^(converse) 08:41, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Great! Support Reywas92^Talk 03:55, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

• Comments I see a bunch of "None" in the table but no explanation. Are there any reasons for those omissions? (For example, I know there were no Nobel prizes in the 1940s due to World War, but I think the article should still explain that in case some people don't know.)—Chris! _ct 06:54, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

• Sometimes the Nobel Foundation believes that no one deserves the Nobel Prize that year. There's often no rhyme or reason. I don't think notes are necessary. — sephiroth bcr ^(converse) 08:41, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Maybe not specific notes for each omissions. What about a general disclaimer on top of the list that explains those omissions, that "sometimes the Nobel Foundation believes that no one deserves the Nobel Prize that year." I just think it is better to have some sort of explanations.—Chris! _ct 19:05, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Added a few sentences to the lead. — sephiroth bcr ^(converse) 02:37, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Support I guess that is good enough—Chris! _ct 02:57, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Support Looks good, and meets all criteria. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:28, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Comments

• Sources looks good, checked with the Checklinks tool. Cannibaloki 03:33, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Support - meets WP:WIAFL.--SRX 00:06, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• Comments
  • Not keen on linking the word "anniversary" which is pretty unambiguous when you don't link "will" which, in reading that sentence, could be ambiguous.
    • Fixed.
  • "a cash prize " sounds a bit gameshow. Would "monetary award" or something similar not sound more serious?
    • Agreed, fixed.
  • The equivalence to 2007 money should be cited really (unless I've missed it) otherwise it could be deemed WP:OR.
  • "...due to the situation Vietnam was in at the time..." I think this is poorly worded - I'm not sure what this means, and a non-expert would be dumbfounded...
    • Agreed, and I expanded it.
  • "...between 1940 and 1942 due to the outbreak ..." - the outbreak didn't last three years...
    • True. Removed.
  • The lead says the award is given "...to individuals who ..." but in the table I see organisations such as the International Committee of the Red Cross. This needs rewording.
    • Well, organizations are only eligible in the peace category, but I have added it.
  • Not keen on the ISO formatted dates in the references. What's wrong with just 27 November 2008 or November 27 2008 or whatever format you choose? The only rule you need to apply is to be consistent within the article...
  • Nobel Prize is a supercat of Nobel laureates, so you only need Nobel laureates as a category.
    • Removed.
  • Be consistent with linking Nobel Foundation. You do it only once in the general references, but every time in the specific references. Is that as you intended?
    • Fixed.
• The Rambling Man on tour (talk) 06:13, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Wow, it's The Rambling Man! Thanks for taking a look. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 15:03, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Support - everything looks good. I have my TV on and they're actually giving out the awards right now. ;) --TheLeftorium 15:27, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Scorpion0422 22:51, 13 December 2008 [20].

---

List of ECW Television Champions

Co-nominating with IMatthew: This article follows the examples of the FLs, List of WCW World Tag Team Champions and List of WCW Hardcore Champions, and as a result has a comprehensive prose and list the content in a comprehensive manner. Any comments, however, will be addressed by Matt or myself.--SRX 23:26, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Comments

• No bolding of the article title in the lead?

• WP:BOLDTITLE isn't necessary if it doesn't repeat the title verbatim Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 05:24, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Exactly what Matthew said :)--SRX 21:48, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
    • That's good to know. Thanks. Nikki♥311 22:01, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

• Not sure if there is a way to fix it, but the Google Books url is visible in the references. ETA: This might be because it is also lacking the book's title.
  • I added the title, its fixed now.--SRX 21:48, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
• Why did Osbourne have to vacate the title and WWE not acknowledge his reign?
  • Its unknown per official records, so I added that it was unknown for both instances that you mentioned.--SRX 21:48, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Nikki♥311 03:55, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

• Support, my comments were resolved and after another look over the article, everything seems to be in order. Nikki♥311 18:35, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Comments

• "ECW was a subsidiary for the National Wrestling Alliance (NWA)," -- surely a subsidiary of?
  • I knew it read weird, I couldn't think of the right term. Fixed.--SRX 21:48, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
• "ECW, however, withdrew as a subsidiary of the NWA in 1994, and as a result, ECW gained ownership of the copyrights to its championships." --> "ECW withdrew as a subsidiary in 1994 and gained ownership of the copyrights to its championships."
  • Fixed.--SRX 21:48, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
• "The championship remained active until April 2001, after ECW filed for bankruptcy." I think "after" is the wrong word here, perhaps. Does it mean it "remained active until April 2001, even after ECW filed for bankrupcy", or "remained active until April 2001, when ECW filed for bankrupcy"?
  • Changed to when.--SRX 21:48, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
• "mid–2003" hyphen, not dash
  • Fixed.--SRX 21:48, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
• "The ECW Championship was the only former ECW title reactivated by WWE for the new brand.[4] The ECW Television Title history was, however, published by WWE on its website, although it excluded various reigns after edits by WWE.[5]" --> "The ECW Championship was the only former ECW title reactivated by WWE for the new brand,[4] although the ECW Television Title history was published by WWE on its website; however, it fails to include various reigns.[5]"
  • Fixed.--SRX 21:48, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
• "Hoynou legitimately injured his ankle" who?
  • Woops, I meant Hotbody (the previous champion).--SRX 21:48, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
• "ECW forced Osbourne to vacate the title." why?
  • I added that it was for unknown reasons.--SRX 21:48, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 05:24, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Comments

• Sources looks good, checked with the Checklinks tool. Cannibaloki 00:19, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Not quite, see my comments below. Dabomb87 (talk) 17:37, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
    • I fixed them.--SRX 18:13, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
      • Sources look good now. Dabomb87 (talk) 18:19, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 18:19, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

• "Originally, ECW was a subsidiary of the National Wrestling Alliance (NWA), a promotion which had numerous subsidiaries." "which"-->that.
  • Done.--SRX 18:13, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
• "The ECW Championship was the only former ECW title reactivated by WWE for the new brand"-->The ECW Championship was the only former ECW title to be reactivated by WWE for the new brand...
  • Done.--SRX 18:13, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
• Use centered em dashes for the vacated reign cells in the table.
• Sources:
  • Both general sources need last access dates
  • Ref 2 needs format=PDF added to it. Dabomb87 (talk) 17:37, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
    • Done both.--SRX 18:13, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Dammit, I can't find myself getting here fast enough to reply! ;) Cheers, ayematthew ✡ 19:49, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

You gotta be quicker man. :P--SRX 20:02, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments from -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24

Comments

• Rhino is spelled wrong in the second paragraph.
  • I actually misspelled it in the table, the proper spelling is "Rhino."--SRX 02:37, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
    • Laugh out loud. I only know him by his WWE ring name. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 02:47, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
• Align the numbers in both the "#" and the "Reigns" column.
  • I'm not sure what alignment you were referring to, so I went with center alignment.--SRX 02:37, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
• Are the notes referenced?
  • They are sourced by the general reference.--SRX 02:37, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
• Add more notes onto the table, for example, "Rob Van Dam is the longest reigning ECW Television Champion." or "Rhyno was the last wrestler to have won the ECW Television championship."
  • I added a few.--SRX 02:37, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
    • It looks like you only added the ones I suggest :o, but it's fine. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 02:47, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
• Can you sort the —es and the N/As all the way to the bottom?
  • No because in a previous championship list FLC, it came up to sort them by the order, so when the # column is sorted it goes in order.--SRX 02:37, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
• There should be more categories that you can add onto this article.
  • I added a few.--SRX 02:37, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Best of luck, -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 02:18, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

• Support Nice article you guys got there. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 02:48, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Scorpion0422 22:51, 13 December 2008 [21].

---

List of Kirby media

This list is based off of List of Castlevania titles, List of Harvest Moon titles, List of F-Zero media, and other video game featured lists. This is my first FLC, but I believe that the list is up to the FL criteria. All concerns will most likely be reviewed by me, and have a good time reviewing it. -- Nomader ^(Talk) 23:23, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:23, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments Oppose The lead is not large enough, please see List of One Piece video games as a guide. Also, Featured Lists no longer start "This is a list of..." anymore. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:53, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

• "This and other subtle changes in gameplay" Changes from what?

• Re-worded the sentence for clarity.

• "The games have been developed by Japanese based HAL Laboratory"-->The games have been developed by Japan-based HAL Laboratory...

• Fixed.

• "To date, over twenty million Kirby games have sold worldwide."-->Over twenty million Kirby games have been sold worldwide.

• Fixed.

• The game consoles are overlinked.

• Removed all the wikilinks for consoles save their first appearance in the list.

• Not completely fixed, see the "Cancelled media" section (Gamecube) as an example, please go through the article again. Dabomb87 (talk) 20:54, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

• My mistake; I missed the canceled games section when I was removing links. Removed all the wikilinks for consoles in the canceled games section. -- Nomader ^(Talk) 23:56, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:06, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

• My mistake; I somehow missed your comment before. Does this address your concerns? -- Nomader ^(Talk) 20:04, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Oppose from me too; lead is too short. But shouldn't take too long to expand (make sure the prose is in tip-top shape!) Gary King (talk) 00:16, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

• I've expanded the lead a bit more now, but I'll continue to expand it over the next couple hours. I addressed the "This is a list of..." sentence and replaced it with a sentence based on examples from other FLs. -- Nomader ^(Talk) 00:53, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
• Does the current lead address some of your concerns? -- Nomader ^(Talk) 22:01, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Better. I'll strike my oppose. Gary King (talk) 22:08, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Better from me also, hopefully I will be able to provide a full review today or tomorrow. Striking oppose. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:58, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Alright, thanks. As soon as you add a review I'll get to work on fixing up the article; much obliged. -- Nomader ^(Talk) 23:14, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

I left a comment on Gary King's talk page ([22], currently located here) on December 8. -- Nomader ^(Talk) 01:58, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments from SRX

Comments - the table itself checks out well, however, the prose in the lead needs work and expansion, I strongly recommend using List of Harvest Moon titles and List of WWE SmackDown video game titles as a template/guide in working on the lead.--SRX 23:11, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

I added a little bit to the lead, changed the wording around a bit. Right now however, I'm basing the three paragraph format off of List of One Piece video games; if you feel that one paragraph would be better for the article, I'll work the prose together as such. -- Nomader ^(Talk) 02:36, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

I went ahead and merged the lead into one paragraph and tried to word it a bit better. Is this more along the lines of what you were looking for? -- Nomader ^(Talk) 02:47, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

It looks better, however, it still needs work: why is the series so popular? there also needs to be a prose summarizing the entire list like in other FLs.--SRX 01:18, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I worked the lead to include a mention from the creator of the series as to its success, and I added in a statement about the range of consoles that the series has been released on. It's not in the order of some of the other FLs, but I think it works better for organization; is this more along the lines of what you were aiming for? -- Nomader ^(Talk) 02:40, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

One more thing, hwo about the most recent release in the series?--SRX 03:30, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

I added it in, but I felt that it didn't fit with other FL examples so I reverted it back; it didn't fit with the ones you mentioned (neither List of WWE SmackDown video game titles, List of Harvest Moon titles include the latest game released). I may work in a note that a Wii version is currently in development in the lead, however. If I do, it will be so noted on this page. -- Nomader ^(Talk) 03:50, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

I went ahead and added a note about a Kirby Wii game in development in the lead. -- Nomader ^(Talk) 03:54, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• Support - my comments were resolved to comply with WP:WIAFL.--SRX 21:33, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Comments by Guyinblack25

• The lead
  • Instead of linking "video game" and "series", I would just link "video game series" to avoid overlinking.
  • Maybe wikilink "levels" to Level (video games) to provide some info to laymans.
  • Some prose suggestions
    • Tweaking for grammar, redundancy, and punctuation:
      "The gGames in the series have all been developed by the Japanese based company, HAL Laboratory, a Nintendo second-party developer."
    • Expand and clarify:
      "A common gameplay element is Kirby's is ableability to copy enemy abilitiesskills, allowing..."
    • I would mention the TV series originated in Japan, as the lead implies it is a North American show. I know the word anime implies otherwise, but this may not be apparent to a layman.
    • "based off of" → "based on"
  • I would put ref 7 at the end of the sentence with ref 8.
• Format and content
  • I would put the mid-sentence refs at the end with the other refs.
  • Since it's split between video games and other media, wouldn't it make more sense to have those be the two main sections and the other video game related sections be subsections of the first?
  • The section for "Sequels" seems out of place to me. What makes these two titles so different from the rest that requires a separate section?
  • What type of games are the "Other titles"? I would include the type in the notes sections.

The list looks really good and is well sourced. Once these issues are addressed, I'll be happy to support. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 20:36, 4 December 2008 (UTC))

• I went ahead and moved all the mid-sentence refs to the end of their sentences. I added in all of your prose and wikilink suggestions for the lead, and I went ahead and re-formatted the sections so it was by genres instead of the ambiguous titles that were up there before. I removed the "sequels" and moved them into the main list as well; does this address most of your concerns? -- Nomader ^(Talk) 21:52, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Looks better. My only remaining issue is including some gameplay description in the "Other" games. Like mention in the notes sections that Kirby's Dream Course is a golf game, Kirby's Block Ball is a Breakout clone, Kirby Air Ride is a racing game, etc.

Also, should Kirby Baseball be in the "Other" section? (Guyinblack25 ^talk 22:18, 4 December 2008 (UTC))

I went ahead and added it to games where the genre wasn't in the title (i.e. Kirby's Pinball Land) and the ones which you named above. If I didn't add it, it was because I couldn't find any refs for it (i.e. BS Kirby no Omotya Bako Baseball). Also moved Kirby Baseball. -- Nomader ^(Talk) 22:42, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

After looking over the list again, a few more issues stood out me.

• Kirby Super Star should mention it is a compilation of smaller games and minigames.
• The remakes should say what made them different from a regular system port. If they feature improved graphics and new content, mention it.
• Why does Kirby no Kirakira Kizzu have its own entry? If it was released at the same time as and is essentially a port of Kirby's Star Stacker, shouldn't it be listed under the "System release" of Star Stacker?
• The IGN link for Kirby Baseball gives a description of it a bit down the page, so you could use this describe the gameplay.

The list has really shaped up. Keep up the good work. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 23:01, 4 December 2008 (UTC))

I added in all your comments except Kirby no Kirakira Kizzu; I can't find any reliable sources about the game itself... I can only seem to find separate pages that say it existed, so it's in the list. If you can find a source that says it's a re-make of Kirby's Star Stacker (as it most likely is), I'll merge it into the list. For the record, I'm looking for one right now; if I find a source I'll mark it on this page. -- Nomader ^(Talk) 23:30, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Found a source, merged the two games together. -- Nomader ^(Talk) 23:37, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

• Support: All my concerns have been addressed. The list is well-sourced, well-structured, and comprehensive. Good job Nomader. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 23:45, 4 December 2008 (UTC))

Thanks for reviewing. -- Nomader ^(Talk) 00:08, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Comments

• Sources looks good, checked with the Checklinks tool. Cannibaloki 02:22, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

• Alright, thanks for checking. -- Nomader ^(Talk) 05:29, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Scorpion0422 22:51, 13 December 2008 [23].

---

List of Cleveland Cavaliers head coaches

co-nominating with Chrishomingtang. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 06:41, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Resolved review by SRX

Review

• The team joined the NBA in 1970 as an expansion team and won their first Eastern Conference championship in 2007. - link to expansion?
• The Cavaliers has played their home games at the Quicken Loans Arena, formerly known as Gund Arena, since the 1994. - since you introduced them as "The Cavaliers are.' In the above sentence, has should be have.
• In the table: Eastern Conference champions (2007) --> Eastern Conference Championship (2007)

--SRX 15:39, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Done —Chris! _ct 18:37, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

• Support - excellent list that meets WP:WIAFL.--SRX 00:47, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments from KV5

Comments from Killervogel5

• "Gund Arena, since the 1994." - remove the.
• "regular-season games coached[6];" - move ref after punctuation.
• "Fitch and Daly was" - "Fitch and Daly were"
• "with Danny Ferry is their general manager" - is should be as.
• Your key doesn't match the table. Do not bold the dagger and the asterisk since they don't occur that way in the table. "Win%" or "W-L%" - pick one.

Hope this helps. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 00:25, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

DONE ALL. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 00:43, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Support from KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 18:15, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:10, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

• Unlink the second linked occurence of Eastern Conference.
• "American R&B-pop singer Usher Raymond is also a minority owner."
• "Chuck Daly and Wilkens are the only Cavaliers' coaches to be elected into the Basketball Hall of Fame as a coach." No apostrophe after "Cavaliers", "to be elected"-->to have been elected.
• "Fitch is the only person to have won the NBA Coach of the Year Award, in the 1975–76 season, with the Cavaliers."-->Fitch is the Cavaliers coach to have won the NBA Coach of the Year Award, in the 1975–76 season.
• Why is winning the Eastern Conference Championship an "achievement"?

It was their first Eastern Conference championship. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 00:03, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Dabomb87 (talk) 23:12, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

DONE ALL. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 00:03, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved issues by NapHit

Comments

• You don't need references in the image captions

For the image you are talking about, yes, because it is not in the prose. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 23:22, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

• Some dates in the term column have a space between the dash and year they should have all no space like this 1977–1978

Stepshep fixed it. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 23:22, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

• 2001 is redlinked think tat may be due to a typo

Stepshep fixed it. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 23:22, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

• I would be tempted to align any figures centrally as it makes it look a bit neater

Stepshep fixed it. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 23:22, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Support Great work NapHit (talk) 00:06, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Support Everything seems to check out! Good work. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 03:34, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Comments

• Sources looks good, checked with the Checklinks tool. Cannibaloki 03:16, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Comment Needs playoff winning percentage column added. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:03, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Done —Chris! _ct 05:18, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Scorpion0422 22:51, 13 December 2008 [24].

---

List of premiers of Nova Scotia

Gary King (talk) 16:20, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

"Restart", nothing negative, but not enough to reach consensus 20:21, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
In my opinion 2nd paragraph of lead <-> 3rd paragraph of lead. Better to explain the history first. Lead organized. Pie is good (Apple is the best) 00:43, 16 November 2008 (UTC) Under the assemblies column, why does it start with 19th? Needs explanation. Pie is good (Apple is the best) 00:43, 16 November 2008 (UTC) Was explained. Pie is good (Apple is the best) 20:26, 18 November 2008 (UTC) Would this picture suffice for a picture of Hiram Blanchard. IF site is reliable, and they have not watermarked the picture, it was published in 1875, before the cutoff of 1923. Argued reliability below. Pie is good (Apple is the best) 00:43, 16 November 2008 (UTC) I disagree. We use GFDL for Wikipedia, but that doesn't mean all our content is GFDL. Some is PD, some is CC, etc. Pie is good (Apple is the best) 20:25, 18 November 2008 (UTC) Disagree with what? The "All Rights Reserved"? Gary King (talk) 20:48, 18 November 2008 (UTC) Same for William Annand with this Source details unclear as stated below. Pie is good (Apple is the best) 00:43, 16 November 2008 (UTC) Pie is good (Apple is the best) 00:17, 14 November 2008 (UTC) I've reorganized the lead. It starts at 19th because there were 18 assemblies before the province had its own system of responsible government. I'm not sure about the picture from the website so I'll leave that for now, but I've added the image from Commons. Gary King (talk) 00:37, 14 November 2008 (UTC) About the issue of the Assemblies, would it be helpful to put a note somewhere explaining this? Also, the external image is from the city of Montreal, so I think it should be reliable. Pie is good (Apple is the best) 00:43, 16 November 2008 (UTC) I've added a note about the 19th assembly. The Montreal page says "All rights reserved" in the footer. Gary King (talk) 02:30, 16 November 2008 (UTC) Support Comments, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 04:16, 14 November 2008 (UTC) Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk) Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs) "An election may also occur if the governing party loses the confidence of the legislature, by the defeat of a supply bill or tabling of a confidence motion." No comma necessary. Pipe link "dissolution" to Dissolution of parliament#Canada. Ref 1 needs a publication date (at the bottom of the web page). Dabomb87 (talk) 03:59, 14 November 2008 (UTC) All done Gary King (talk) 04:03, 14 November 2008 (UTC) Comment Please get an experienced image reviewer (i.e. User:David Fuchs to verify that all images are properly licensed/attributed. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:25, 15 November 2008 (UTC) Image review - Gary asked me to look at the images in this article: Image:Rodneyconvention001.JPG - Is the author the same as the uploader? If so, that needs to be made clear. I've added the username as the author. Gary King (talk) 22:59, 17 November 2008 (UTC) Image:James Boyle Uniacke.jpg - Why is the date of the photograph listed as "c.1850"? It is listed as 18-- at the source. I have changed the date to 18–. Gary King (talk) 22:59, 17 November 2008 (UTC) Image:Sir William Young.jpg - Why is the date of this photograph listed as "c.1855"? It is listed as 18-- at the source. I'm not totally sure that PD is proven here: I don't see evidence that it was a crown copyright. It is not a photograph. We don't have the dates of the creator. I've changed the date to 18–. Considering the "All rights reserved", I don't think it can be used. Gary King (talk) 22:59, 17 November 2008 (UTC) The problem is we can't verify the information. Note, however that there are other images of this person at the archives that do have enough verifiable information. We could use one of those. Awadewit (talk) 21:01, 19 November 2008 (UTC) You mean here? Or another site? Gary King (talk) 21:07, 19 November 2008 (UTC) Image:Hall-WilliamYoung.jpg - Here is one I have uploaded that you can use. Awadewit (talk) 02:45, 21 November 2008 (UTC) Thanks, added Gary King (talk) 02:48, 21 November 2008 (UTC) Image:JosephHowe.jpg - Please add a description, a source, an author, and a date for this image. This is from the Dartmouth Heritage Museum per this. Probably can't be used, unless we can find a year that proves it was before 1949. Gary King (talk) 22:59, 17 November 2008 (UTC) But you could use Image:Joehowe.JPG, which I have just researched and added the details for. Awadewit (talk) 21:14, 19 November 2008 (UTC) I have now added that. Gary King (talk) 21:22, 19 November 2008 (UTC) Image:William annand.gif - The source link is broken and there is no author name. Without the name and dates of the author, the PD license cannot be verified. The only copies I could find of this originated from Commons. I'm not sure where it originally came from. Gary King (talk) 22:59, 17 November 2008 (UTC) I'm striking this since it has been deleted from the article. Awadewit (talk) 21:18, 19 November 2008 (UTC) Image:William Stevens Fielding.jpg - I would link this to the LAC with their template. Hopefully, it will provide evidence for the date of the image. It says "© Public Domain " on the source website. Gary King (talk) 22:59, 17 November 2008 (UTC) That website could say anything. We have to verify that with an actual date. I have now linked the image to the LAC and fixed the information on the image description so that it reflects the source. Awadewit (talk) 21:25, 19 November 2008 (UTC) Image:Angus L Macdonald portrait.jpg - Can we link to the source? It's an offline source I believe. Gary King (talk) 22:59, 17 November 2008 (UTC) Ok. Awadewit (talk) 21:26, 19 November 2008 (UTC) Image:John M Buchanan.jpg - Eh? What is the source? Who is the author? How was the copyright released? It's a PD image taken by the uploader, from what the contents say. Gary King (talk) 22:59, 17 November 2008 (UTC) The source is listed as "My Carma" and the author is listed as "Miss. Naomi Buchanan". How do we know that "Miss Buchanan" is the same as uploader, "SweeettFriday"? As this user doesn't seem to respond on their userpage, I would suggest removing this image from the article. Awadewit (talk) 21:31, 19 November 2008 (UTC) Alright removed Gary King (talk) 21:41, 19 November 2008 (UTC) Image:Russell MacLellan.jpg - The copyright holder needs to release this image - that might be the photographer. Also, we need some sort of OTRS ticket for this. We cannot rely on an editor's statement on the image page that the subject has released the copyright. I've contacted the uploader. Gary King (talk) 22:59, 17 November 2008 (UTC) I am the uploader. I responded to the appeal for a photo on the Wikipedia entry by asking Mr. MacLellan for one. I followed standard practice of asking for copyright clearance under a GNU Free Documentation License once I had established that MacLellan himself was the copyright holder. The message I conveyed to him was as follows: "Your photo would be used under a GNU Free Documentation License which allows you to retain copyright and authorship, but grants permission for others to use, copy, and share this image freely, and even potentially use it commercially, as long as they do not try to claim the copyright themselves, or try to prevent others from using or copying it freely." I have a copy of Mr. MacLellan's letter dated March 18, 2008 which accompanied two photos. It reads: "Mr. Bruce Wark: I hereby authorize you to use the two attached photographs of myself, described on the back as RM1 and RM2, for any purposes you see fit, including commercial purposes." The letter is signed by Russell MacLellan. Bwark (talk) 03:32, 21 November 2008 (UTC) We still need an OTRS ticket. Awadewit (talk) 03:54, 21 November 2008 (UTC) I have e-mailed permissions with a copy of the MacLellan letter attached asking for an OTRS ticket. Bwark (talk) 16:48, 25 November 2008 (UTC) Image:Jhamm03election.JPG - Who is the "I" who took this photo? The uploader? We need to know that the person who released the copyright could really do so. I've cleaned up the page. Hopefully it's cleaner and it's made clear that the uploader took the photo. Gary King (talk) 22:59, 17 November 2008 (UTC) These issues can be solved - it will just require some time. Awadewit (talk) 23:03, 15 November 2008 (UTC) I have removed most of these images for now while I work on finding more information on them as I wasn't the uploader and don't know where most of them came from. Gary King (talk) 23:32, 15 November 2008 (UTC) Why did I bother to detail the problems of these images, then? I idea is for you to track down the images on Google and elsewhere - follow the clues in the image descriptions. Really, this is not that hard. Like I said, it just takes some time. Awadewit (talk) 00:14, 16 November 2008 (UTC) I did what I could with the images; I'm not quite sure what to do with the images that were uploaded by a user and released into the public domain. Gary King (talk) 04:17, 16 November 2008 (UTC) Please respond beneath each image, so that I know which images have outstanding concerns. If you have questions about images that were uploaded by other users, leave a message on the user's talk page. Most users are very helpful, you know! Awadewit (talk) 22:38, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Image review - Image:Russell MacLellan.jpg - We are awaiting an OTRS ticket for this image. Awadewit (talk) 00:29, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure what to do about this. I have a letter from Mr. MacLellan himself granting unrestricted use, but permissions wants to see the message I sent him as well as the photos he sent me. I don't have the message because I spoke to him verbally. I'd say the only way out of this impasse is for me to draft a letter and get him to sign it, but that will take time. I'm not sure what to suggest. Do you want to delete the image until I get all the paperwork done? I thought I was doing a good thing getting that photo, but now I wish I'd never got involved in this. I am willing to resolve the issue, but it will take time. Bwark (talk) 20:22, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

After reading the email, it looks like this issue will probably not be resolved before this nomination ends. Therefore, I am removing the image for now until it is resolved. Thanks for your help Bwark, and Awadewit, please let us know what you think. Thanks! Gary King (talk) 21:00, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

The OTRS ticket has now been granted for the MacLellan photo. Bwark (talk) 18:00, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Excellent, I have re-added the image. Gary King (talk) 18:06, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Support As my issues have been resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:14, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Comments

• Sources looks good, checked with the Checklinks tool. Cannibaloki 03:18, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

• Comments
  • What does "---" mean for some of the entries under Parliament? Not clear.
  • Why have normal readable dates in table and then ISO non-readable dates in the references? You can just be consistent within the article and make it all human readable...
  • Why is minority government in bold?
  • Not keen on (1st time of 2) - can't we use text for this? First of two spells as Premier? And the heading of the table doesn't cover that third line, so it's not 100% clear.
• The Rambling Man on tour (talk) 06:26, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

All done. The ISO dates in the references are just because the templates accept ISO dates, and I'd prefer to keep it that way, just in case the template ever changes to be able to automatically format them. Gary King (talk) 17:15, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Scorpion0422 22:51, 13 December 2008 [25].

---

List of premiers of British Columbia

previous FLC

Image issues were resolved here. This is a co-nomination with User:Arctic.gnome. Gary King (talk) 04:37, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Comment

• I think you should've asked Arctic.gnome if you can nominate this article before actually nominating it, since I think Arctic.gnome is the main contributor of this article. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 05:30, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

  I'm actively working with him on these Premier articles to form a topic. We are both working together on this. Gary King (talk) 16:01, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

  If you both are working on this article, then I think both of you should deserve the nomination. I'm sure if you ask him to co-nominate with you, he'll gladly accept. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 06:36, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

  I don't mind a co-nomination, but didn't you already ask and get a response? Kind of strange that you would suggest doing it when you already asked and went through this. Gary King (talk) 16:07, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

  I just truly want Arctic.gnome to have credit for his work on the article. That's all. I don't want to have credit for this as I only re-wrote the dates, and wrote the last paragraph. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 23:07, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

  Added and left a note on his page. Gary King (talk) 04:24, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

  Sure, it looks as good as the other premier lists. --Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 05:48, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Support My only issue with the article (that wasn't fixed) at the last FLC was the images, but they have been resolved, so I believe this article now meets all criteria. Dabomb87 (talk) 14:48, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Comments

• Sources looks good, checked with the Checklinks tool. Cannibaloki 03:31, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Scorpion0422 22:51, 13 December 2008 [26].

---

List of World Rally Championship Drivers' Champions

I am nominating this list for featured standard as I believe it fulfils the criteria. It is well-referenced, up to date and accurate. The tables are sortable and their are images used to illustrate the list. Thanks in advance or your comments. NapHit (talk) 15:52, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:52, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

• "The World Rally Championship (WRC) is a rallying series administrated by Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile (FIA) motorsport's world governing body." Comma after (FIA).
• "Each season normally consists of 12 to 16 rallies driven on surfaces ranging from gravel and tarmac to snow and ice." "ranging"-->that range.
• "He also holds the record for the most championships won in a row winning his five titles from 2004 to 2008."-->He also holds the record for the most championships won in a row; he won five consecutive titles from 2004 to 2008.
• "Juha Kankkunen and Tommi Mäkinen are second having four championships each, with Mäkinen winning his four championships in a row from 1996 to 1999."-->Juha Kankkunen and Tommi Mäkinen are second with four championships each; Mäkinen won four championships in a row from 1996 to 1999.
• "Finland has produced the most champions with seven drivers winning 14 championships between them." Needs rewording to get rid of the with + -ing structure. Per MOSNUM, comparative quantities should be written out; 14-->fourteen or change seven-->7.
• "Drivers in Lancia and Citroën cars have won the most championships with five each." "in"-->of. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:16, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments, they have all been addressed NapHit (talk) 23:33, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email)

Comments
This is a good list, and as a fan of WRC I'm pleased somebody has finally gotten around to doing it. I have just a couple of things.

• I sort of see this as a "sister" list to the FA List of Formula One World Drivers' Champions, but that one has more columns, such as "Team", "Fastest Laps", and "Clinched", which could possibly be recreated here with "Team" (or "Constructor"), "Fastest Leg" (or "Day"), Fastest Special stage (rallying), and "Clinched"

I can't get reliable info a stage wins for a season so can't add this and clinched would not work as I can't link to all the races, but if this does not matter then I'll add that NapHit (talk) 16:49, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

• Would it be possible to add a "Co-Driver" column, or have some champions had more than one co-driver in a season?

I think some drivers have had more than co-driver in a season NapHit (talk) 16:49, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

• "By constructor" table needs its heading correcting from "country" to "constructor"

Done NapHit (talk) 16:49, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

• The constructors don't link to constructors, but car manufacturers. Shouldn't it be either Munchi's Ford World Rally Team, Stobart VK M-Sport Ford Rally Team, or BP Ford World Rally Team, rather than just Ford, Citroën Total World Rally Team instead of Citroen, and Subaru World Rally Team not Subaru, etc?

Done NapHit (talk) 16:49, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

• It may be just because it's late, but I'm finding Footnote A a bit confusing

think it's a bit clearer now NapHit (talk) 16:49, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

• Pipelink "Mercedes 450 SLC 5.0" to Mercedes-Benz R107

Done NapHit (talk) 16:49, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

• Refs 6, 7, 10, 12, 15-24 should use {{cite web}}

They do use this template NapHit (talk) 16:49, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Oops, I meant {{cite news}} Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 18:15, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Done NapHit (talk) 14:16, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

• Ref 6 should attribute the author

Done NapHit (talk) 16:49, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

• Ref 10 should give the author and page number

This cannot be done as the ref is web based NapHit (talk) 16:49, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Since it's a news article, it will do it if it uses {{Cite news}} it will work

It does indeed, I've added the page number NapHit (talk) 14:16, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

• Refs shouldn't really be using ISO date formatting any longer. Since the WRC is an international thing, I recommend "28 November 2008" over "2008-11-27" or "November 27, 2008". There are special fields in {{cite web}} and {{cite news}} to do this.

Done NapHit (talk) 16:49, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

• Ref 17 should attribute Associated Press

Done NapHit (talk) 16:49, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Overall, good. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 05:14, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

• Is there a photo of the cup that can be added to the lead section?

There is but I don't think it would constitute as free use so I'm reluctant to use it and where would the template go that is already in the lead? NapHit (talk) 16:49, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Below it, like the F1 one perhaps. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 18:15, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Here is the link for the image, Im not sure if it would count as being free use, what do you think? NapHit (talk) 14:16, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, probably better not to include it. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 01:46, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

• some constructors still need adding. Ralliart for Mitsu, for example. I can't find articles for Peugeot, Audi, Lancia or Fiat, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. I think Fiat's is Abarth, but I'm not 100% sure. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 01:46, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

I've added the links for Mitsu and Fiat and redirect the Peugeot, Audi and Lancia links to the releveant part in the main article hopefuly this should suffice. NapHit (talk) 13:12, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

• All my comments have been resolved. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 01:46, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Comments

• Sources looks good, checked with the Checklinks tool. Cannibaloki 04:21, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments from SRX

Comments

• Each rally is split into 15–25 special stages which are run against the clock on closed roads. - comma before "which."
• The WRC was formed from well-known and popular international rallies, most of which had previously been part of the European Rally Championship and/or the International Championship for Manufacturers, and the series was first contested in 1973. the "and/or" contradicts the second "and." It would be better that a semicolon replaces that "and."
• The driver's championship and manufacturer's championship are separate championships, but based on the same point system. - +"are" before "based."
• Finland has produced the most champions, 7 drivers have won 14 championships between them. --> "Finland has won the most titles, with 14 championships between 7 drivers."
• A key would help to explain some of the headings of the columns, like Margins.--SRX 21:57, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

I've dealt with all your comments, Cheers NapHit (talk) 23:12, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• Support - Comments were resolved to comply with pWP:WIAFL.--SRX 00:50, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• Comments
  • Not keen on the headings "By nationality" etc - should be "Winners by nationality" or else put these as subsections under a general "Winners" heading.
  • Gronholm's caption is fragment so remove the full stop.
  • The notes aren't cited. Is there a reason for this?
  • "The margin of points the champions beat the runner-up by" - try "The margin of points by which the champion defeated the runner-up(s)" perhaps? Was there ever more than one runner-up?
• The Rambling Man on tour (talk) 06:02, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the comment Rambling Man, they are all dealt with now NapHit (talk) 14:37, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• Support with one comment; "...follows: 10, 8, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1." From my perspective, numbers 10 and lower should be written in lower case, but it's fine to me. Nice job with the article. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 01:59, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
  • I fell that because these are describing a point system, they should remain numerals. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:03, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Yeh I agree with Dabomb because it's dscribing a points system it should remain. NapHit (talk) 15:00, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Scorpion0422 22:51, 13 December 2008 [27].

---

List of New Orleans Saints head coaches

I am nominating this list because I have worked on it to meet WP:WIAFL (FL Standards). In addition, this is my first list of this type, so I wouldn't be surprised to get comments with issues about the list, I will, however, address them as they come. --Tru_Co 00:03, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:42, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

• "from 1967–1974 " Whenever year ranges are preceded by "from", use "to" instead of an en dash.
  • Done.--Tru_Co 01:28, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
• "is the only coach to be inducted into the Hall of Fame while" put and "and" before "is".
  • Done.--Tru_Co 01:28, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
• "Jim E. Mora is the team's most winningest coach, having a winning percentage of .557"-->Jim E. Mora is the team's winningest coach with a winning percentage of .557.
  • Done.--Tru_Co 01:28, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
• "Hefferle and Rick Venturi are both the team's least winningest coaches, having a winning percentage of .125. "-->Hefferle and Rick Venturi both have a franchise-worst winning percentage of .125.
  • Done.--Tru_Co 01:28, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
• "Ditka, Mora, and Payton have all won the AP Coach of the Year Award and the Sporting News NFL Coach of the Year."
  • Done.--Tru_Co 01:28, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
• "The New Orleans Saints have had 14 head coaches in their franchise history." I suggest putting this at the beginning of the second paragraph.
  • Done.--Tru_Co 01:28, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
• To the "Term" column, add a note that says: "Each year is linked to an article about that particular NFL season."
  • Done.--Tru_Co 01:28, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
• The achievements in the table need inline citations.
  • They were sourced in the ref column, but I just placed a general ref, which covers it.--Tru_Co 01:28, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
• In the key: "Games Coached"-->Games coached. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:15, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Done.--Tru_Co 01:28, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
    • All done, thanks for the comments.--Tru_Co 01:28, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Killervogel5

Comments from Killervogel5

• "He has also coached the most games for the Saints with 49." - According to the records in the table, Tom Fears did not coach the most games.
  • How did I miss that? Fixed.--Tru_Co 17:56, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Jim Haslett hasn't coached the most games either. Jim Mora coached 167 games, which is the most according to the table. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 14:37, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
      • Eh, I'm sorry, I'm missing things from lack of sleep. Fixed.--Tru_Co 19:30, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
• "Jim E. Mora is the team's most winningest coach with a winning percentage of .557." - "most winningest" is horrible grammar, and the word winningest is discouraged because it's American slang. Reword.
  • I reworded it, hope it reads better.--Tru_Co 17:56, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
• "The New Orleans Saints have had 14 head coaches in their franchise history. Sean Payton is the head coach of the Saints as of 2008, and is the 14th person to serve in the position." -saying 14/14th twice is redundant. You also say it again at the end of the paragraph ("The New Orleans Saints have had 14 head coaches in their franchise history."). Remove all but one. Also, I would say that Payton has been the coach "since 2006" rather than "as of 2008". As of statements are discouraged per WP:RECENT.
  • I removed the 14th part of that sentence. I removed the second instance of the repetitive sentence and I reworded the "as of" part to "since."--Tru_Co 17:56, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
• You don't explicitly define AFL, so the abbreviation shouldn't be used or should be defined.
  • I defined it.--Tru_Co 17:56, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Eh... I don't like the way that looks aesthetically. How about "six months after the 89th United States Congress approved the [[|AFL-NFL merger|merger of the NFL with the American Football League (AFL]] in June of that year"? KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 14:37, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
      • Fixed.--Tru_Co 19:30, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
• "and began playing in September of that year." - the link in this section is very ambiguous because it doesn't give any indication where it goes Pipelinks are not meant to be Easter Eggs. Remove.
  • I reworded it to better pipe it.--Tru_Co 17:56, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
• For "New Orleans, Louisiana", use the city-state template.
  • Done.--Tru_Co 17:56, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Hope this helps. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 17:29, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

It did, thanks because this is my first list of this subject.--Tru_Co 17:56, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

I made a minor fix in the lead, and now I support. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 19:45, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments from -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24

Comment

I think you should've asked Golbez first before putting on this nomination. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 02:06, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Why? He doesn't own the article. So I can't expand List of Cleveland Browns head coaches, which I started in my sandbox?--Tru_Co 04:55, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

I didn't say Golbez owns the article, but he has (from what I see on the edit history) contributed to the article more than you. Also, on the WP:FLC page, it says, "Nominators who are not significant contributors to the list should consult regular editors of the list prior to nomination." Though you are a significant contributor, I still believe that you should've consulted Golbez prior to nomination. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 06:49, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I didn't look at the complete edit history, now I see he did contribute majorly. I notified him, its late, but yea. So do I have to ask you guys if I can expand the Browns list as well?--Tru_Co 14:56, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

No, because the current head coach list does not have any information on it, indeed, it is a redirect. Nobody else has put in work to expand it. Dabomb87 (talk) 17:29, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Laugh out loud. Golbez hasn't replied to your invitation to co-nominating with you. I guess this problem is solved. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 23:09, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Comments

At first when I was looking through the article, I felt so confused (well not really) because there was nothing wrong with it. Then I found TWO minor mistakes in the article. Both of the templates do not link to the article. Good thing I found something. :D -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 07:39, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

What templates?--Tru_Co 14:33, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

He means the navboxes. I can't believe I missed that too. It's usually the first thing I check. They need a direct link to this article or they should be removed. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 14:37, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Oh okay, I fixed that.--Tru_Co 15:06, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

I don't think so. There aren't currently any links to this article in either navbox. I will take a look at them. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 15:10, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Striking that, I saw the one your put in the main navbox, but it wasn't in the traditional place, so I moved it. I'm working on the other now. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 15:13, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Striking that yet again, I checked the code, and the change was made. It was just caught in my cache, I guess, which is why I couldn't see it. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 15:14, 29 November 2008 (UTC) Should be done now. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 15:14, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I forgot to purge the pages, that's probably why it didn't come up on your cache.--Tru_Co 15:58, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

• Support Very nicely done. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 23:09, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Comment

• One HUGE mistake that I just saw is that you did not cite the Achievements. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 23:36, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

One Huge mistake on you behalf as well;) It is cited as a general ref, which is located on the "Achievements" column.--Tru_Co 23:43, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

One HUGE mistake is that the ref only cites the UPIs and the APs. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 23:46, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

I could only find a source for Payton's Maxwell award, I couldn't find it for the Pro football or the Sporting news one, although unreliable sources confirm it, no RS state it. Should I just remove it?--Tru_Co 00:06, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm not an NFl fan, but I think only the APs and UPIs are offically recognized by the NFL, so just removed the other ones, and I will re-support this nomination. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 00:27, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Done.--SRX 00:56, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

• Support -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 02:55, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
• Support Can't see any problem —Chris! _ct 03:57, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
• Support, after reading it I don't see any issues which would affect promotion. Wizardman 02:13, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Comments

• Sources looks good, checked with the Checklinks tool. Cannibaloki 04:22, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Additional Comment Needs playoff win% column added. For some reason, whenever the first of these lists were made, the creator(s) forgot these important stat. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:03, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Where is this standard stated? I don't see it in other recent FL's. In addition if I have too, I'm new to doing these type of lists, so where and how would I find this out?--SRX 03:43, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

It is not so much a standard as a crucial gap in the info. See the NBA head coach FLs. Not adding this info would be a breach of Criterion 3 (comprehensiveness) on the WP:Featured list criteria. I will get around to adding this info to the other articles. Dabomb87 (talk) 03:45, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Weak opposing until this info is added. Dabomb87 (talk) 13:13, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

That's kind of harsh considering that I do not know how to locate this information, and considering I'm at school during the day. Now instead of opposing, may you help me?--SRX 21:11, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

The information is all at the references that the list uses. Gary King (talk) 21:34, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Thank you Gary for telling me that. I have now added the playoff winning %.--SRX 22:03, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Sorry for not telling you where the info was. Supporting again. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:06, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• Support -- looks good. Rlendog (talk) 02:11, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Scorpion0422 21:47, 9 December 2008 [28].

---

List of number-one Billboard Top Latin Albums of 2007

Submiting this list after a copy-edit made by User:Dabomb87, and now I think is ready to achieve FL status, Jaespinoza (talk) 19:03, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Support Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

• "The first Spanish-language release by Jennifer Lopez debuted at number 10 in the Billboard 200 and also peaked at number one on the chart for four consecutive weeks." What was the name of thus album? FIXED! Jaespinoza (talk) 22:39, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
• "La Radiolina by Manu Chao debuted in the Top 10 in 11 countries" Top 10 what (charts?)? Dabomb87 (talk) 20:04, 27 November 2008 (UTC) FIXED! Jaespinoza (talk) 22:39, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Resolved review by SRX [TRUco]

Comments

• There were twenty-two number-one albums in 2007, including two releases by Mexican band RBD: Celestial and Empezar Desde Cero; Celestial, the last number-one album of 2006, spent five weeks at number one and sold 498,000 units;[2] this album became the best-selling Latin album of 2007;[3] Empezar Desde Cero debuted at the top of the chart and sold 102,000 units.

A)This needs to be split into several sentence, not one big sentence with many semi-colons, it is very grammatically distracting. FIXED! Jaespinoza (talk) 18:25, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

• ; it also spent one week at number one in the chart on September 22, 2007.

B)Wouldn't this be during the week of September 22, 2007? Since it spent a week on the chart and not a day. FIXED! Jaespinoza (talk) 18:25, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

• The soundtrack for the movie El Cantante, mainly performed by Marc Anthony, was the second soundtrack to peak at number one, ten years after the compilation album for the movie Dance with Me did so on 1997 (see: Top Latin Albums of 1997).

C)In not on. FIXED! Jaespinoza (talk) 18:25, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

• Instead of 3 small paragraphs, make it one or two big ones, so merge them together.
• , enough to to be the number-one album on the chart on June 23, 2007.

D)Like I said before, wouldn't it be during the week of that date?--Tru_Co 23:41, 27 November 2008 (UTC) FIXED! Jaespinoza (talk) 18:25, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

• Support - issues were resolved to meet FL standards.--Tru_Co 03:07, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Comment Please address the dead links. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:25, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Comments

• Sources looks good, checked with the Checklinks tool. Cannibaloki 04:18, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Scorpion0422 21:47, 9 December 2008 [29].

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List of Washington Wizards head coaches

Here's another one. Dabomb87 (talk) 17:46, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments from SRX [TRUco]

Comments

• Shue is the franchise's all-time leader in regular-season games coached and wins, Jones is the franchise's all-time leader in regular-season winning percentage.[8] Dick Motta is the franchise's all-time leader in playoff games coached and wins, as well as playoff-game winning percentage.

• What are the statistics? They should be elaborated here.

• Table: 1 Championship (1978)[19]

• Should be NBA Championship (1978)[ref]--Tru_Co 23:35, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Done both. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:49, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

• Support - review was resolved, meets WP:WIAFL.--Tru_Co 00:11, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments from KV5

Comments from Killervogel5

• "Chicago/Baltimore/Capital/Washington Packers/Zephyrs/Bullets/Wizards" in the footnote looks ridiculous. Consider rewording to "the current Washington franchise" or something similar.
  • Yeah, I know, I just wanted to see reviewers' opinion before changing it :D. Reworded. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:54, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
• The years of establishment are in the table, so they don't need to be in the colspans as well.
  • I don't understand what you mean. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:54, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
    • In the colspans, all that you need is the team name, not the years as well. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 16:00, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
      • I know, but since the team had five different names, I believe the clarifications in the colspans are necessary. It doesn't detract from the table's appearance, so I don't see the point in removing them. Dabomb87 (talk) 16:20, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
• As per the other basketball coach FLs, each year should be linked to that team's season in the table.
  • Not all the head coach Fls do (List of Los Angeles Lakers head coaches, List of Philadelphia 76ers head coaches) If you insist on it though, I will link them. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:54, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Ah, I only saw the ones that I've reviewed. I would prefer to see the links. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 16:00, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
      • OK, I will put them in. Give me some time. Dabomb87 (talk) 16:20, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
        • Done. Dabomb87 (talk) 16:59, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
• "Jones is the franchise's all-time leader in regular-season winning percentage (.630)." - link winning percentage.
  • Done. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:54, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
• "Since their formation, the Wizards have won 6 divisional championships, 4 conference championships, 1 league championship" - six, four, one.
  • Look at the full sentence: "Since their formation, the Wizards have won 6 divisional championships, 4 conference championships, 1 league championship and have appeared in the playoffs 23 times." Per MOSNUM, comparative quantities should be written the same way. If you still want me to write out the numbers, I would have write out 23 (twenty-three) also. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:54, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
    • I did see that, but I don't read it as a comparative unit since it's part of a dependent clause. I suppose that it could be considered as such since there is no comma separating it from the main clause of the sentence. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 16:00, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
      • Done, I just wrote everything out. Dabomb87 (talk) 16:20, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Otherwise, well-written and well-constructed. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 15:38, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments, I replied or actioned upon them. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:54, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Support KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 20:05, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments from -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24

Comments

• Link Chicago.
• I'm for sure that the Wizards have had different colors in their franchise. Just look at the picture of the Baltimore Bullets logo on Washington Wizards. Google the other names to see if they had different colors than the current ones.

Wow...I guess that's it... -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 07:48, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Done. I found a very useful web site for finding team colors [30]. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:56, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Why is the Washington Wizards color like that? Can you change it back to the way it was? -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 23:03, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Done. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:35, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

• Support Nice job on the article. Hoping you'll do more on this list. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 21:31, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

• Support Well done —Chris! _ct 02:15, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Comments

• Sources looks good, checked with the Checklinks tool. Cannibaloki 04:20, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Scorpion0422 01:46, 6 December 2008 [31].

---

Timeline of the 1982 Atlantic hurricane season

Now that things with the timeline killing bug have been figured out, I've created images to replace them and using a helpful link supplied by Rambo's Revenge, I've also mapped the image for this timeline. With that said, I believe this timeline is ready for the process known as Featured List Nomination (or Candidate if you so desire). All thoughts and comments are welcome :) Cyclonebiskit (talk) 02:47, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Wheres Tropical Depression 5? - you seem to jump from TD 4 (Chris) to TD 6 without including TD5 Jason Rees (talk) 14:15, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Oh, my bad, SD Two is Chris, TD Four should be TD Five which is Debby. I'll fix that now Cyclonebiskit (talk) 15:07, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

SupportJason Rees (talk) 21:56, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:40, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

• "Hurricane Alberto was one of the few storms to form in the Gulf of Mexico and not make landfall." Can you be more specific than "few"? Where is the source for this statement?
• "However, rains from Alberto caused severe flooding which killed 23 people in Cuba." Comma after "flooding".
• Only image captions that are complete sentences should have periods at the end. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:12, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

I think I've corrected these three issues. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 22:29, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Comment The link checker reveals three dead links. Please fix them. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:24, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

I've fixed one, but the other two I cannot because the site they are from is under-construction. So this should only be temporary. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 04:13, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Comments

• The other three were Laurie of 1969,[1]Henri of 1979,[2] and Jeanne of 1980[3] - space between the ref and "Henri"
• The last paragraph needs to sum up the list more, ie. the first named storm, the most significant ones, and the last ones.--SRX 01:21, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I've fixed the reference spacing and added Ernesto to the summary (the last storm). Cyclonebiskit (talk) 01:28, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Scorpion0422 01:46, 6 December 2008 [32].

---

List of Caltrain stations

I am nominating this list because I believe it meets all FL criteria.—Chris! _ct 00:40, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 05:07, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

• "Caltrain is a commuter rail transit system serving the San Francisco Peninsula and the Santa Clara Valley in the U.S. state of California." "serving"-->that serves.
• "The system serves over 36,993 passengers a day as of fiscal year 2008." as of the fiscal year 2008.
• "(known as Peninsula Commute)"-->(known as the Peninsula Commute)
• Link Double track.
• "36,993 passengers" "7.5 million passengers" "$220 million" need non-breaking spaces.
• "Under Southern Pacific's ownership, the line was double tracked in 1904 and experienced record ridership in 1958, with 7.5 million passengers annually." Split this sentence up.
• "which Peninsula Commute"-->which the Peninsula Commute
• Right-of-way needs disambiguation.
• "Stanford Stadium is a game day-only station" Which sport?
• "while both Atherton and Broadway are served only on weekend." "while"-->and, pluralize weekends.
• "Tamien is served by train on weekday and served by shuttle bus on weekend." Pluralize weekday and weekend.
• "12 stations" Spell out 12, it is at the start of a sentence. Dabomb87 (talk) 04:05, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Done all—Chris! _ct 04:53, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Comment

• So Stanford Stadium is a stadium? and a station? doesn't say on the article.

It is a station, but since the article doesn't exist, I just link it to the stadium.—Chris! _ct 20:05, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Then make one to get my support. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 23:53, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Actually, the article exists. I just misread it when I search for it. Now done.—Chris! _ct 07:03, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

• Align the tables.

What do you mean?—Chris! _ct 20:05, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

The section, "Station"'s table is bigger than the one in "Closed stations". -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 23:52, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

That is because the "station" table has more info than the "closed stations" table. I don't see how this is a problem.—Chris! _ct 03:18, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

C6. Visual appeal. In short, it'll looks better. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 06:43, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

But I cannot add more info. The best I could do is increase the width of each column.—Chris! _ct 18:55, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Increased width. If you are still not satisfied, then I am afraid that your comment is not actionable.—Chris! _ct 19:10, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Sure, I'm satisfied. At least it looks better. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 23:52, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

-- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 08:50, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

• comments. Can you link or define ridership. I had to look it up - i don't think they would use this word in the UK.

Wikilink—Chris! _ct 20:18, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

How feasible would it be to list which trains stop at each station? Or is it the same for all of them? Or to merge the paragraph about the regularity of service into a "service" or "notes" column. The table seems slightly underused in terms of the info it could convey.Yobmod (talk) 09:29, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

I add a column—Chris! _ct 20:18, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Resolved review by SRX [TRUco]

Comments-

• However, the popularity of the railroad began to decline soon afterward and in 1977 Southern Pacific petitioned to the state government to discontinue Peninsula Commute. - comma before "and in"

Done—Chris! _ct 20:18, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

• Stanford Stadium is a football-game-day-only station, and both Atherton and Broadway are served only on weekends. - like it was said above, this needs better elaboration to state that it is both a station and stadium.--TRU_CO 13:55, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

It is a station, but since the article doesn't exist, I just link it to the stadium.—Chris! _ct 20:05, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

• Support - my review was resolved to meet WP:WIAFL.--TRU_CO 22:08, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
• support. Could find nothing that needed to be changed, so i think this list meets al the criteria of a FL.Dillypickle (talk) 15:51, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Scorpion0422 01:46, 6 December 2008 [33].

---

List of New Jersey Nets head coaches

My first FLC nomination. Thanks to User:David Fuchs for the image check and to User:Chrishomingtang for looking over the article pre-FLC. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:09, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

• Support I already look through it and can't see any problem. —Chris! _ct 02:43, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Comments

• It's about time!
• "The team was moved to a home 40 miles (64 km) away from New York City" – Can this be more specific? Moved to what city? What's the stadium called?
• "He wants to move" – Perhaps "He plans to move"
• Shouldn't "games coached and won" be "games coached and wins" (for both occurrences)?

Gary King (talk) 02:50, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Done all. Dabomb87 (talk) 03:09, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Okay, Support Gary King (talk) 03:20, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments from -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24

Comments

Sorry for not looking through the article before the FLC, as I was busy with homework. Now on with the comments...

• Led team to ABA championships in 1974 and 1976 --> "Led team to ABA championships in 1974 and 1976" or "2 ABA championships in (1974 and 1976)". I would prefer the second suggestion, as it will be consistent with other List of (team) head coaches.
• Add the note, "Each year is linked to an article about that particular NBA season." on the column, "Term". -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 07:34, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
• Butch Beard is not one of the top 10 coaches in NBA history. (second paragraph and list)
• "...won ABA Championships in 1974..." ABA Championships --> ABA championships.
• "...ABA merged with the NBA..." Link to ABA-NBA merger.
• "..., which was 40 miles (64 km) away from New York City." Is this really necessary?
• "New York Nets 1976 (NBA) and New Jersey Nets (NBA) 1976–present" I don't really get this, since it is not mentioned in the prose. Can you tell the readers how the Nets were still called the New York Nets in 1976? You said, in the prose, that they moved to New Jersey in 1976.

-- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 07:34, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Done most of your comments. I don't want to link to articles from what looks like plain year-links right now because there is an RfC about that right now. As for the team name, there is no explicit note of when the name changed; however, this source says that the team was the New York Nets in the NBA for a short time. Dabomb87 (talk) 14:41, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

On the link you just provided me, I says that the Nets joined the NBA still as the New York Nets, then change to New Jersey Nets the year after. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 23:57, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Also, you forgot this one...Add the note, "Each year is linked to an article about that particular NBA season." on the column, "Term". -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 00:00, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Fixed the years. I didn't add the note because I didn't link the years (seasons). Dabomb87 (talk) 00:03, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Laugh out loud. Sorry about that. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 04:29, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

• Support. To be honest, this should be the BEST "List of (NBA team) head coaches" article, but not ever...I'll make one better...Hehehe...:D -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 04:52, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
  • But you're a Lakers fan, which means you can only be the second-best... ;) Dabomb87 (talk) 05:18, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
    • -.- I find that offensive...:( -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 06:45, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
      • All in jest. :) Dabomb87 (talk) 14:44, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments from SRX [TRUco]

Comments

• However, because of a weakening U.S. economy, tentative financing of the construction project and protests of local residents who would be displaced by the center, the Nets will not move until at least 2011. 1)Link to the the financial crisis of 2007–2008 or the global economic crisis of 2008, where you say "weakening U.S. economy.
• In the table, you list the accomplishments as Led team to ABA championships in 1974 and 1976. It should be instead..ABA Championship (1974, 1976).

Done both. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:34, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

• Support - meets FL standards.--TRU_CO 17:11, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments from KV5

Comments from Killervogel5

• "Two Nets coaches, Chuck Daly and Bill Fitch, were named to the Top 10 Coaches in NBA History list." - link top 10 coaches in NBA history as in the table, and reword slightly. It sounds awkward as is. Suggest: "Chuck Daly and Bill Fitch were selected as two of the top 10 coaches in NBA history."
• "Larry Brown is the franchise's all-time leader in regular-season winning percentage (.576)." - link winning percentage.
• Use the city-state template for East Rutherford, New Jersey, and for Brooklyn, New York.
• "The franchise's first head coach was Max Zaslofsky, who coached for two seasons." - saying coach twice in such quick succession is redundant. Suggest "who led the team".
• Suggest superscripting the daggers in the table for visual effect and to eliminate crowding.
• Link the years in the table to the team's season article.

Hope this helps. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 15:57, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I have done most of your suggestions. I don't like linking to cities and states, linking to states doesn't really provide relevant info for the reader, and readers can get to the article about the state through the article about the city. Also, I don't want to superscript the daggers because none of the other head coach FLs do and it doesn't make a huge difference anyway. Dabomb87 (talk) 17:04, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Support KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 20:05, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Scorpion0422 01:46, 6 December 2008 [34].

---

Iron Maiden discography

After much work and help from various users, this "great monster" is ready. Cannibaloki 17:16, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

A co-nomination between me and Rockk3r (talk · contribs).

Resolved comments from SRX[TRUco]

Comments - Excellent list and well referenced, but a few notes.

• After several auditions and lineup changes, the band settled on vocalist Paul Di'Anno, guitarists Dave Murray and Dennis Stratton, and drummer Clive Burr.-They settled for this when they made their debut, correct? (Just making sure..)
• There needs to be an overall count of their discography in the lead somewhere.--TRU_CO 21:38, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Support - meets WP:WIAFL.--TRU_CO 17:18, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Comment: Great article, there is very little wrong with it. The only thing that I feel is worth mentioning is that the paragraphs in the lead seem a little intimidating. Per WP:Layout and WP:Lead I would suggest redistributing them into three or four paragraphs (ideally four). The first paragraph should include the current first sentence, and a breakdown of the discography by type – Ikara ^talk → 00:59, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

I really don't agree with putting a sentence on top of the lead saying how many albums, singles, compilations, etc they have released, as it can easily be seen on the sand infobox and only makes they lead longer. Also, I've seen in many FL that it's no longer used the phrases: "Discography of", "List of awards and nominations recived by".; That's my opinion.  Rockk3r Spit it Out! 03:39, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree with you; a bit redundant, since have an infobox to make the count. Cannibaloki 03:58, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

You may want to remove the phrase "discography of..." from the first sentence, and instead use something like: "Iron Maiden are a British heavy metal band. They have released..." If you keep it as is, there should really be a comma after "Iron Maiden" in the first sentence. However, note that infoboxes are intended as a summary of information in an article, not an alternative, so the list of releases should be included in the prose somewhere. The lead is the most sensible choice in this case – Ikara ^talk → 12:43, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Comment: Looks great, but TNOTB has been certified gold in Germany. --78.48.76.229 (talk) 17:13, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

 Done Everything has been updated. The first paragraph of the lead was re-written, and shortedned as much as possible. TNOTB recieved a gold certification in Germany: that was updated too.  Rockk3r Spit it Out! 17:22, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

• Excellent! You have my support as well. --Hullu poro (talk) 10:17, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

It looks great, you have my support now. All the best – Ikara ^talk → 00:06, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Support Disclosure: I helped with the copy-editing of the article. However, all the credit goes to Cannibaloki and Rockk3r. Great job! Dabomb87 (talk) 23:47, 27 November 2008 (UTC) Support igordebraga ≠ 22:29, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Scorpion0422 01:46, 6 December 2008 [35].

---

List of Tokyo Mew Mew chapters

I am nominating this list for featured list status as I believe it meets all of the current FLC criteria. The entire article is well sourced using reliable references. The lead is comprehensive and provides the relevant details normally found in a chapter list, with the appropriate opening sentence and an appropriate image in the upper right corner. The list itself is well-formatted, comprehensive, and complete. The individual volume summaries are of a reasonable length for 200 page volumes, with all summaries around 300 words each. It has been extensively peer reviewed, both through its own talk page and in the formal PR process, and all issues brought up have been addressed. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 15:36, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:10, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

• "The first chapter premiered in the September 2000 issue of Nakayoshi where it was serialized monthly until its conclusion in the in the February 2003 issue." Comma after "Nakayoshi".
• "adapted into a 52 episode anime series"—Hyphenate "52 episode".
• "The manga series is licensed for regional language releases by Pika Édition in France, by Japonica Polonica Fantastica in Poland, and by Carlsen Comics in Germany, Denmark, and Sweden."
• "Tokyo Mew Mew was licensed for an English language release"—I think "English language" could be hyphenated.
• "Afterwards, she begins displaying cat-like behaviors."-->Afterwards, she begins to display cat-like behaviors.
• "Ichigo learns she is a 'Mew Mew'" Insert a that before "learns".
• "Joined by Keiichiro Akasaka, they go to Cafe Mew Mew, the Mew Project's headquarters."-->She ges with Keiichiro Akasaka to Cafe Mew Mew, the Mew Project's headquarters.
• "The boys request that Ichigo find the other four Mew Mews"—Which boys?
• "he traps all of the chimera animas in a barrier which allows them to be captured and Kish retreats." Comma after "barrier".
• "Mint, who idolized her, is hurt so the the girls gather at her house to cheer her up." "hurt"-->disappointed.
• "the team to the citizens as "Tokyo Mew Mew."" Citizens of what?

I'll comment more later (I can take only so much manga!). Dabomb87 (talk) 20:17, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

All corrected or clarified :) -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 20:24, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

• "Ichigo avoids Masaya out of fear he knows her secret." Add that after "fear".
• "Happy her secret is safe," Add "that" before "her".
• "Meanwhile, the other Mew Mews go to investigate a strange cocoon"
• "While Masaya is asleep, Ichigo steals a kiss which turns her back to normal," Comma after "kiss".
• "After a brief run in with Tart" I think "run in" should be hyphenated.
• "Ichigo finds Ryou who fills her in on what happened with the others." Comma after "Ryou".
• "The Mew Mews quickly defeat it, but are attacked by Kish, Pie, and Tart." "but"-->and, the attack by Kish and co. doesn't contradict the Mew Mews' victory.
• "Now almost 8," Clarify that time is the subject.
• "intending to collapse it and kill 50,000 people who are inside to attend a concert."-->intending to collapse it and kill 50,000 people who are attending a concert inside.
• "Ichigo is forced to reveal that she is Mew Ichigo in order to fight the alien."
• "The Blue Knight joins her and badly wounds Kish, nearly killing him before Ichigo stops him allowing Pie and Tart to take their friend away." Comma after "him".
• "Pie and Tart erect a dome over the city that causes the temperature to rise dangerously, then join Kish and bow before the Blue Knight saying they have been waiting for him." Comma after "Blue Knight".
• "He declares he loves her, but she rejects him causing him to cry and demand to know how he can make her love him." Insert that after "declares", comma after "him".
• "Ichigo is initially unable to deal with Masaya's really being Deep Blue"-->Ichigo is initially unable to deal with Masaya's true identity of Deep Blue...
• "even attacking her fellow Mew Mews when they try to attack the alien"-->and attacks her fellow Mew Mews when they try to attack the alien.
• "As he lying dying in a crying Ichigo's arm" Wrong tense.
• "Masaya decides to study abroad to study endangered species, so the girls hold a mock wedding for he and Ichigo." "so"-->and.
• "Wanting to thank him, she follows him to the café where she accidentally enters the Mew Project laboratory and is merged with the DNA of two endangered species." Comma after café.
• "Shocked, she faints then pretends she does not remember Ryou telling her she is now a Mew Mew, but later begins exhibiting rabbit-like behaviors." Insert that after "pretends".
• "Meanwhile, the Mew Mews have become very popular due to the media buzz created by the Saint Rose Crusaders, "
• "Blaming her for the Mew Mews "becoming bad", the citizens direct their attacks at Mew Berry who runs away to protect the others." Comma after "Mew Berry".
• "Seeing the girl to safety, she returns to Tasuku." Insert "off" after "girl".
• "At the café, Tasuku and Berry team up for the shop's new delivery service and Mew Mews agree that they will all be friends "to the very end."" Insert the before "Mew Mews"
• Change the References section to "References and notes". Dabomb87 (talk) 20:59, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

All done except the last as I don't see why it needs to be done. I never use "References and notes" as a section name in any article I work on. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 21:37, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Support, Read the summaries and they were easy to understand. Sources are okay.Tintor2 (talk) 19:31, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Comment Is "afterward" the word they use, or should it be "afterword"? The latter is more typical for an essay-like piece of writing by the author. But maybe afterward is being used instead of "epilogue"?Dillypickle (talk) 15:55, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm...I'll have to double check that volume this evening. Might be my own typo. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 16:01, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Checked and yes, they actually use "afterward" instead of "afterword." Its a page with comments from the author, which is normally called afterword in most other series, so its probably another typo from that volume (it had several). Should I mark it with [sic] or a footnote? -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 02:14, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Scorpion0422 01:46, 6 December 2008 [36].

---

State highways in Hamilton County, New York

first FLC (01:14, 29 September 2008)
previous FLC (18:59, 15 November 2008)

Ok, after solving the final problem with a user on my 1st and 2nd FLCs, I finally got to finish it off, and now I believe this is a sustainable candidate for FL. Again, all comments are open and welcome.Mitch32^{(Go Syracuse)} 22:27, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

• Support - The comments raised in the two previous FLCs seem to have been resolved. I don't see any reason why this shouldn't satisfy the Featured List Criteria, perhaps think about using an alternative to "truncated" in the lead on occasions. Sunderland06 (talk) 22:49, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
• Support - Like Sunderland said, comments have been resolved. All looks good! iMatthew 00:42, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Scorpion0422 01:46, 6 December 2008 [37].

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Killswitch Engage discography

Something made by someone. Cannibaloki 15:41, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Resolved review from SRX [TRUco]

Oppose

• The Westfield, Massachusetts-based metalcore group, Killswitch Engage was formed in 1999, and after sign with Ferret label, released its self-titled full-length debut a year later. - Change sign to signing.
• They sign a record deal with Roadrunner Records, releasing Alive or Just Breathing in 2002. - This needs a transition like They then.. Also change sign to signed.
• The End of Heartache appeared in 2004 and peaked at #21 on the Billboard 200—which is their highest chart position in the United States to date—and sold 38,000 copies in its first week of release. - Reword to The End of Heartache appeared on the Billboard 200 in 2004 peaking at #21—which is their highest chart position in the United States to date—and sold 38,000 copies in its first week of release. Another thing, the dash does not work well between date and the word and. Either split the sentence or use a comma/semi-colon. In addition, to date is WP:WEASEL, give exact year (i.e. 2008).
• The album was certified gold by Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) in 2007, for more than 500,000 copies sold. - reword The album was certified gold by Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) in 2007 for the sale of more than 500,000 copies.
• Later that year, the band issued its first DVD, (Set This) World Ablaze, which contain a live concert in their hometown, a documentary, and all music videos from 2002 to 2004. - Change contain to contained. Add their before music videos.
• The DVD was certified gold by RIAA in 2006 for 50,000 copies sold. - Reword The DVD was certified gold by RIAA in 2006 for the sale of 50,000 copies.
• Their fourth studio album As Daylight Dies, was released later that year and peaked at #32 on the Billboard 200 with 60,000 sales in its first week. - Comma before the album name.
• Did the singles only chart on the US Main.? Plus is this an appropriate abbreviation for the chart?--TRU_CO 01:54, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Support - after my resolved review, the list now meets WP:WIAFL standards.--TRU_CO 21:29, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Support: Looks good! I just have one little nitpick. Maybe notes could be added to references that take the reader to a database, telling them what should be entered into the search engine and where? I've seen it added to other discographies. -- Underneath-it-All (talk) 23:30, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Done. Cannibaloki 02:41, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Scorpion0422 01:46, 6 December 2008 [38].

---

Gaylactic Spectrum Award winners and nominees for best short fiction

4th article in the series, formatted the same as previous ones, whoch have gotten no objections so far, so i think this is also a FL.Yobmod (talk) 15:06, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 14:52, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

• "and works produced prior to the inception " prior to-->before.
• "Each award consists of an etched image on lucite on a stand, using a spiral galaxy in a triangle logo, based on the logo the Gaylactic Network." Add which is before "based".
• "The cost of the awards is met through individual donations and fundraising events." Can we use a better word than "met"? How about covered or paid for.
• "the books were released is the preceding years. " Typo?
• Use centered em dashes in table instead of hyphens where there is no data.
• "As of 2008, only one short story has been inducted into the Hall of Fame:" Dabomb87 (talk) 17:58, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Fixed typo and grammar changes, and replaced hyphens. Therefore all done. Thanks again - without your reviews i don't think any of these lists would have enough comments to pass (and i got my first FL yesterday! :-DYobmod (talk) 09:51, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

• Support as almost identical to other lists, including the changes i suggested for them. I could not find any new mistakes in the lead, and the actual list looks fine.Dillypickle (talk) 12:55, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Scorpion0422 01:46, 6 December 2008 [39].

---

Pendulum discography

I am nominating this discography because I believe it to be complete and well-referenced, and because I feel it now satisfies all featured list criteria. The list had a peer review about two months ago – Ikara ^talk → 11:18, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Resolved review from SRX [TRUco]

Oppose - fails FL Cr 1,2, and 3

• Pendulum is an Australian drum and bass band originating from Perth. - like U.S. states, Perth is in a Australian state, so it should be Perth, Western Australia (or the correct state name).

Done – Ikara ^talk → 12:42, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

• Pendulum was formed in 2002 by Rob Swire, Gareth McGrillen and Paul "El Hornet" Harding in Perth, Western Australia. - if what I recommended is done above, then remove Western Australia from this sentence.

Done, with above – Ikara ^talk → 12:42, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

• Their first individual release was the double A-side "Spiral / Ulterior Motive" in July 2003.[2] The single was only released in New Zealand and did not receive much publicity, but later that year their track "Vault" was met with widespread underground recognition. - These are connected, but in the first sentence it should be stated that it was their first individual singles release. What is verifying the statement about underground recognition?

Done, specified that it was the first individual singles release, and added reference for the latter statement – Ikara ^talk → 00:29, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

• Soon after the band relocated to the United Kingdom, where they were joined by guitarist Perry ap Gwynedd, drummer Paul Kodish, and MC Ben "the Verse" Mount. - is the "ap" supposed to be there?

Comment – his full name is "Perry ap Gwynedd", checking various sources including the band's official website will confirm this. So the "ap" is supposed to be there – Ikara ^talk → 12:42, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

• Five singles were taken from the album, including "Slam / Out Here", the first single by Pendulum to reach the top forty in the UK Singles Chart. - it sounds like Pendulum literally took only 5 songs and ranked them on the UK Chart. This would be better worded as Five singles were produced from the album, etc.

Done, as proposed – Ikara ^talk → 12:42, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

• Two further singles were released; the Pendulum remix of "Voodoo People" originally by The Prodigy, which reached number twenty in the UK charts and was the band's most successful single for almost three years,[4] and "Blood Sugar / Axle Grinder", which was later amended to the re-issue of Hold Your Colour due to its popularity. - this is going to need a full stop somewhere, or a semicolon, this is a ridiculously long sentence. Also, when were these singles released, it is not stated?

Done, separated into four sentences along with both release dates – Ikara ^talk → 00:29, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

• Source for this statement Contains a cut version of Pendulum's performance at the iTunes Festival 2008, consisting only of songs performed from the album In Silico. in the live albums section?

Done, reference added – Ikara ^talk → 12:42, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

• Source for this statement Contains songs written by Pendulum, as well as by other artists that have been mixed by Pendulum. - in the compilation section?

Done, reference added – Ikara ^talk → 12:42, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

• Has there been an attempt to look for the missing directors in the music videos section, if so, instead of leaving them blank, place an emdash there or the word Unknown with a footnote explaining why they could not be found.

Done, the remaining three directors have been found and added with references – Ikara ^talk → 00:29, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

--TRU_CO: 00:58, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Looks good so far, but what about my other comments that have no replies?--TRU_CO 21:32, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Sorry about the split reply, I have been fairly busy and tracking down the three missing video directors took me several hours over the last few days. Hopefully I have now addressed all the problems you found with the article. Thanks for all the suggestions, they were very helpful – Ikara ^talk → 00:41, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

• Support - my review was addressed and it now meets WP:WIAFL. +Your welcome :)--TRU_CO 17:36, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose for all the reasons given above, but especiailly for the missing directors. Writing unknown might be ok for one entry, but for half of them it clearly does not meet "comprehensive", no matter if finding the director is not a simple websearch. Sometimes getting featured content requires more hard work - there is no way that this info is inherently uncitable.— Preceding unsigned comment added by yobmod (talk • contribs) 09:28, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Hopefully I have also addressed your concerns with the article now, the missing directors have all been added. If you can find any other issues holding this article back from FL status I would be grateful. All the best – Ikara ^talk → 00:41, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Looks much better. Support.Yobmod (talk) 08:44, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Support All my issues were resolved at the peer review, and the article now meets all criteria. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:30, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Question What makes rolldabeats.com a reliable source? I couldn't find much info on it on the main page. It looks questionable to me, and since you rely so heavily on it in your citations, it's kind of a make-or-break issue for me. Drewcifer (talk) 22:54, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Rolldabeats is a database compiled by a small team of volunteers in a fashion similar to IMDb, however unlike IMDb no information is directly submitted by the general public. New data and corrections can be proposed by various people, including the artists, via the forums or email, but are only published on the website after they have been verified by one member of the team. As such I believe Rolldabeats to be reliable as a tertiary source for the purpose of citing track listings as in the article currently. An alternative for the article would be to cite the liner notes of each release instead, which would be considered reliable but prevents readers from easily verifying the information. My preference would be to use Rolldabeats, but if you disagree that it is reliable then I can change the citations as appropriate – Ikara ^talk → 12:03, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Use the liner notes in addition to Rolldabeats. Dabomb87 (talk) 13:21, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Alright, the article now references the liner notes of the releases directly where appropriate, and then provides the Rolldabeats for support. Hopefully that should address any concerns over the reliability of the references in the article. Thanks for the suggestion – Ikara ^talk → 15:14, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Better, but the one use of it still bothers me. I see what your saying about how info is added to the cite, but it's not just important that it seems "reliable" in quotes, but satisfies Wikipedia's definition of "reliable". I'm not so sure it does. Also, along the same lines, mvdbase.com is not considered reliable. Drewcifer (talk) 08:43, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Are you referring to the one remaining reference that uses rolldabeats directly, or the use of it to support the other references? I could probably remove the one reference (I overlooked it when changing the others) but I feel that we should keep the rolldabeats links with the other references. The mvdbase.com reference was a replacement for this reference which I was unsure about the reliability of. I expect I can find a substitute reference shortly. Thanks – Ikara ^talk → 02:12, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Support – Looks good. =) Cannibaloki 02:50, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved stuff from Cannibaloki

Comments

• Certifications (sales thresholds) → BPI certification

Done, although this may eventually have to be reverted should the band receive certification in other countries – Ikara ^talk → 01:55, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

• Warner Music UK Ltd. → Warner Music

Done – Ikara ^talk → 01:55, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

• Remove: "Recorded: 28 July 2008" or move to notes (live albums' table)

Removed, that information shouldn't be there at all, it isn't on any other albums – Ikara ^talk → 01:55, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

• Why has space between word and reference? (like the entire 'Music videos', 'Remixes' & 'Miscellaneous' sections)

Removed, the spacing was personal preference, but doesn't comply with MoS – Ikara ^talk → 01:55, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

• Miscellaneous → Other appearances (more normal)

Done – Ikara ^talk → 01:55, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

• Remove 'Radio mixes' section – remember, this is a discography

Removed, these were left over from when I started, I was unsure if they should be kept at the time – Ikara ^talk → 01:55, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

• I suggest that you merge the sections 'Remixes' and 'Miscellaneous' to 'Other appearances'.

Merged, however I have kept the remixes and original songs in separate subsections to make some distinction between original and covered material. Not sure if that is what you meant – Ikara ^talk → 01:55, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

• (Pendulum remix) on the section remixes is redundant.

Removed – Ikara ^talk → 01:55, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Cannibaloki 21:48, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

All done (I think), thanks for the suggestions – Ikara ^talk → 01:55, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree with the "radio mixes" are not needed, and that Remixes and misc would look better combined. If that is done, i would support this as being inline with other discog. FLs. Dillypickle (talk) 13:19, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

The sections have been merged, sort of, and I have removed the "radio mixes" section – Ikara ^talk → 01:55, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Scorpion0422 01:46, 6 December 2008 [40].

---

List of The O.C. episodes

This has undergone a brief peer review, and the four season it covers (& transcludes are in parts) are all featured. I think it meets all the criteria. Thanks in advance for comments, Rambo's Revenge (talk) 23:59, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 16:12, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

• "The show ran until February 22, 2007, with a total of 92 episodes split over four seasons."-->The show ran until February 22, 2007, with 92 episodes split over 4 seasons. MOSNUM says to make comparative quantities written out the same way.  Done
• "Season three was twenty-five episodes long, but only sixteen episodes were ordered for the final fourth season as falling ratings meant the show was cancelled."-->Season three was twenty-five episodes long, but only sixteen episodes were ordered for the final fourth season as falling ratings led to the show's cancellation.  Done
• "Additionally The O.C. The Complete Series was released on November 27, 2007" Comma after "Additionally".  Done
• "For registered members of the US iTunes Store episodes of the first, second, and fourth season are available to purchase and download." Comma after "Store".  Done
• The Note system is not working properly. On hold
  • Comment this is because the note is in a transcluded table. The link down works, but not back up as I guess it tries to go to the transcluded article. I cannot see a way round this, without transcluding the notes section from the season pages, but this wouldn't allow the wording to differ, hence I have not done it. I am very open to suggestions on this though. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 19:00, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Consider using Template:Ref label system. I can do it if you want. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:36, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
      •  Done, thanks for that I didn't think it would work. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 16:01, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Dabomb87 (talk) 18:46, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

• Support Good list, good introduction and well sourced. BritishWatcher (talk) 00:46, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Resolved issues from Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) as of 02:50, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Comments - Sorry I missed the PR, I was having some issues.

• "The O.C." and "iTunes Store" are WP:Overlinked  Done
• "troubled teen": WP:TONE --> "troubled teenager". I'd also prefer "teen drama" to be "teenaged drama"  Done
• "The show" implies it's a one-off. "The series" is better, IMHO  Done
• Use "United States" before "US", and "United Kingdom" before "UK"  Done
• "For registered members of the US iTunes Store, episodes of the first, second, and fourth season are available to purchase and download." This implies not all episodes of the seasons are available, but my guess is that they all are.  Done
• "This section indexes official specials and recap episodes that were made specifically by the creators of The O.C." Don't refer to WP. How about something like "Two special episodes, not part of the official continuity, were produced to complement the second season and were broadcast on Fox in the weeks leading up to the season premiere. The first documents the shows impact on popular culture, and the second provides "a day in the life" of the show."  Done
• "In America airing of "The Return of the Nana"" either a comma or a word is missing from after "America". You should use "United States" or "US", too, since "America" could be seen to encompass Mexico, Canada, Cuba, the West Indies, etc.  Done
• I don't see the four general references as necessary. Wouldn't The OC Insider be better since it also offers airdates? If you do stick with it, use {{cite video}}.  Done
• Ref 4 needs formatting correctly. TVShowsOnDVD.com is a website and doesn't need formatting. Just remove TV Guide from the publisher=field, and put TVShowsOnDVD there instead of at work= Done
  • Sorry, I meant it doesn't need itallicising, but I guess you knew what I meant. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 16:57, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
• Categories need fixing. It appears in Category:Lists of soap opera episodes, but no article about The O.C. describe it as a soap opera, rather a teen drama. What about Category:Lists of drama television series episodes instead?  Done

Everything else looks good. FL Criteria 1, 2, 4, 5, and 7 appear to be met. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 07:12, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

• Consider whether it's worth mentioning that the Fox/NBC joint venture Hulu carries some episodes [41]
  • On hold I can see this info. but before it's addition please see comment below.
    •  Done
• As does The WB's new website [42]
  • Comment Not being from the US, the link automatically redirects to [43]. I cannot therefore see what information (episodes) are available. I would happy for the addition of this with the a summary of episodes on Hulu (above) however I would need a US user to do this, as I can not verify the content on the WB site. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 15:44, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
    • It's just a small selection of episodes, which changes regularly. Like right now, all the episodes they have, Friends, Gilmore Girls and The OC have Thanksgiving and Christmas episodes up. A couple of weeks ago it was a different theme. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 16:57, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
      •  Done, assuming this is an accurate description of what is available. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 17:53, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
        • That appears to be a good summary, and works for me. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 02:50, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Try to find the missing viewing figures. The empty table cells make it glaringly obvious that the information is missing. Does this meet criterion 3 at WP:FL? "Comprehensiveness. It comprehensively covers the defined scope, providing a complete set of items"

• Comment. I have tried to find these beleive me. But ABC Medianet has broken pictures or ratings before Feb 11 2004 (Like this) I have also trawled through every Mediaweek Programming Insider from then with no luck. If anyone knows anywhere else please let me know. However, that said Season 1 was originally promoted without any viewer figures. Other episode lists contain no figures, remaining comprehensive without them, but surely removing 89 verifiable viewing figures goes against common sense, and that not including them per comprehensiveness goes against improving Wikipedia, and should be ignored. Let me know your thoughts on this. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 15:44, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
  • It was promoted without viewing figures because they weren't initially included and so the "complete set of items" rule didn't apply. The set of items that were there were episode and series numbers, titles, writers, directors, airdates and prod codes. Adding in only some viewing figures provides another set of items, and that set is not complete. I'm happy to wait and see if anyone else comments on this though. Perhaps request someone from WP:TV, such as User:Collectonian, User:Bignole or User:Thedemonhog to comment here? Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 16:57, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Request for comment made to all above mentioned users. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 17:53, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Personally, I have always believed in the philosophy (only when it comes to these types of situations), if you don't have it all then don't list it partially. Viewing figures are nice, but they are not necessary given that (unfortunately) at the moment you have an individual page for each episode, AND a season page. Then again, you're only missing 3, so it's not like you're missing the first couple of seasons, but have the later ones. I have to assume that if they are there for the episodes before, after, and in between these vacant spaces then they must be there for the ones you don't have as well. One thing I would like to ask, where did this production number come from? Production numbers are hard to accurately verify. Please tell me they didn't come from TV.com or IMDb.com (which are virtually the same in their respect in fact that we cannot cite them as sources because of the way they attain a good portion of their content). The reason I mention this is because, not only are they hard to reliably verify, but they really hold not actual value to the article. The average reader won't understand what they are (kind like listing viewership numbers for anything other than the overrall viewership, e.g. 17/60 males...average readers don't understand that in a table). If an episode was filmed out of order, then it's easier to put a star beside it and put a "Notes:" section below the respective table and indicate that said episode was filmed early (but only when you have a reliable source to prove that). You also need a source for those airdates. TVGuide and MSN are some good sources for airdates (see the MSN listing here). Now, I'm going out of town, so I won't be able to respond any any responses/rebuttles to my comments. For the initial reason I was brought here, I have to side with Matthew on this one, because it's clear that the numbers are there for all the other episodes, and why these three cannot be found is odd to me.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 19:57, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Actually, the airdates are referenced, sort of, to the one general reference, however you have to go through and click on each individual episode to see the airdate. Might be better if the nom replaced that general ref with more specific ones for the individual ep pages at same site. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 11:06, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

I think replacing one encompassing general reference by 92 specific ones is excessive, and as such will leave it as it is, unless further objection is raised. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 18:44, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

I was actually meaning that you should place a ref name tag in "Original Airdate" section of each table. That will easily show that each season is referenced.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 22:25, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

I have to agree with the others. If all of the figures are not available, it can not be considered to meet "Comprehensiveness" as is. I can not imagine that figures are not available for those few episodes if they are available from all. If those few pages from the ABC Net site are broken, I'd recommend emailing their webmaster and asking them to fix those pages. I also must second the question on those production numbers. If they are from TV.com or IMDB, the column needs to go. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 11:06, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

• I have emailed the webmaster Rambo's Revenge (talk) 18:44, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Assuming the webmaster doesn't fix this, the missing figures can be calculated from reliably sourced data. Would this be acceptable? Rambo's Revenge (talk) 19:14, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

No, you couldn't do that math yourself. If you don't know the 3 numbers, then they could theoretically be anything. As one number could be higher than you calculated, while another could be lower, and in such case they would offset each other in the average for the season. If you have the original url (I read above about somethinb being "broken"), then have you tried the Internet Archives?  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 22:25, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

But two of them are not theoretically anything, as they are directly related to the Nielsen Share rating. That leaves one missing, which can be worked out with maths from the average. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 22:56, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Then why aren't they listed? If you know them, then they should be there. If you have a source for them, then use it. If you don't, then you don't know what they are, and are hypothesizing what they are. Also, the season average is based on the final, official numbers. The numbers you have for each episode are the estimated figures. The official numbers are usually not calculated until about a week later (well, not released until then).  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 00:34, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

There you go. –thedemonhog talk • edits 22:07, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, Rambo's Revenge (talk) 12:41, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

• Production codes are listed at the end of each episodes credits. If you want web verification they cannot all be found in any one place but reliable sources that verfy them include IGN which lists some of the production codes in a summary box next on individual episode pages (like this) and CNBC-e who also list some. (An example) Rambo's Revenge (talk) 18:44, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

• Just confirming that production codes for The O.C. are shown on screen at the end of each episode's credits, so the episodes are the reference for this. I don't know if including them in an episode list is something to be discussed in a FLC. The article is utilizing {{episode list}} which includes the prod code= field. I feel that part of the discussion should be taken up at [[Template talk:Episode list}}. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 02:50, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

• The production codes appear right at the end of the credits, like this one for the pilot episode - Image:TheOCprodcode.jpg (apologies for the low quality) Rambo's Revenge (talk) 09:48, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

My issue with them is over their relevance. What relevance do they hold for the average reader? Does the average reader even know what they mean? Most don't, and if you have to explain that it shows if they were filmed out of order, then you might as well do that in prose and drop the needless columns.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 22:25, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

They are part of the template, and as Matthew said the validity of their inclusion is not really something for FLC. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 22:56, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

I disagree. If a FLC can determine what needs to be added, then it can determine what should not be included.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 00:34, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

 Done 17:07, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

• Criterion 6. Visual appeal Give all four tables of the seasons the same column widths so everything aligns
  • Comment. I have considered this, but (using D:TNG as an example) this puts the column headings in strange alignments on the individual season pages (somewhere between left and centre align). IMO this equally in breach of Cr. 6, and as there doesn't seem to be a solution that satisfies both. Surely 1 list with a slight problem is better that 4 with problems. Please let me know your opinion on this. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 15:44, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
    • D:TNG uses {{episode list}}. Any alignment is forced by that template. <shrugs> Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 16:57, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
      • Further comment - I know this is by no means justification but in List of Lost episodes, season 3 is not of the same width as the other seasons and the air date wraps onto 2 lines in season 1 & 4, which I guess is also undesirable by Cr. 6 (and probably forced by the template too) Rambo's Revenge (talk) 18:03, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
        • Adjust it, it should be completely over. Another issue. Linking. This page is severely overlinked. You should only link a name once, not every instance.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 00:34, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
          • I've had this discussion with The Rambling Man before about WP:OVERLINK, and it does not apply here. "Table entries are an exception to this; each row of a table should be able to stand on its own". Rambo's Revenge (talk) 12:41, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
          •  Done I have sorted the Cr. 6 Visual appeal and managed to transclude the tables at 99% length, thanks to an edit by Bignole. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 20:41, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose - Formal oppose. The more I look at this page the more I find things wrong with it. First, there was the fact that all of the tables were linked to the season pages, so you had to go to the season pages just to edit them and even then certain edits would not be reflected here. I have personally fixed this. You should never send someone to another page to edit the one that they are on. Next, why do we ever list the DVDs if you provide no information about them? This page keeps linking everything away. That DVD section should have release dates for Region 1, 2, and 4...given that the lead of the page claims that the DVDs have been released in all of the sections. Counting up the episodes in that section? Pointless really. People can do the math themselves, it isn't hard. People can also see that the show first released a DVD set in 2003 and finally in 2007, they don't need a separate line telling them such. You don't need a link to season 1 and then a link to season 1's DVD section in the same line. Maybe each row should stand alone (which I question, and have sent a request to the guideline page for clarification, as this is the first time I have read such a thing on that page), but not each cell. You don't need need the title "The O.C. - The Complete First Season", as you're presenting it as if it has its own page. Take a page from here. Last (at the moment), where are the writers and directors for those two special episodes? Documentaries DO have writers and directors. There is no need to ignore them just because these are not official "episodes".  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 13:40, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

  First indented points below are responses from Rambo's Revenge (talk) at 20:41, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

  • What! You have just taken (diff) a 11,972 byte page to 100,003 bytes without adding any information. How is that a good idea. Featured episode lists commonly transclude e.g. Lost, D:TNG, The Office etc. Just because "your" Smallville one doesn't, that does not mean it is right! I have added back the transclusion as, thanks to you, I found a way to fix the visual appeal width issue at the same time.
    • Size isn't a problem. The 100k is all code, thus it doesn't meet the idea of the article being too big. Just because others did it doesn't make it right. You should not force editors to have to go to another page just to edit this one. If an anon doesn't know how to actually do that, they will be quite confused as to how to edit this page when they click the "edit" button on each section. You have to remember, this isn't YOUR page, it's everyone's page and it must be designed so that ANY person that comes along and sees a problem can fix it. It should not be designed so that someone has to put in a request to have someone fix the page for them because they cannot figure out that the actual list is on another page and is being mirrored over here.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 23:15, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
      • I can see your point of view, however it doubles the required maintenance and transclusion was requested at the List of The Office (US TV series) episodes FLC I have not reverted your change at the moment, and have requested comment from Gary who brought this up there. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 23:32, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
        • I think it's useful to transclude the tables, because the information in the tables will not change very often. There are no plot summaries, which are typically the parts that receive the most edits. I suggested this format in the other FLC because I saw it used in other episode list FLs, however. Gary King (talk) 23:35, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
          • It's very useful, to people that know how to use it. But, assuming that nothing will change doesn't mean that it won't, and limiting the editors that can edit the page to ones that know how to edit a transcluded section is not what Wikipedia was designed for. It wasn't meant to basically seclude pages from the public. Scrolling reference boxes were nice too, but we discourage them because they forced people to actually have to scroll through to exam sources.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 23:39, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
            • Also, another advantage of using it is so that there isn't two versions of the same information on two pages. Gary King (talk) 23:40, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
              • That's also a pitfall, because if there is something wrong on one page it will be wrong on both pages. If someone comes in and messes up the code on the season three page, it will be noticed on the LOE page but not the season three page (depending on the error). If the error has to do with the transcluding link, people will be wondering where the section went on the LOE page (and if you don't check the page regularly you won't know it is missing because the edit doesn't appear on the LOE page). If you aren't reading carefully into someone's edits on a season page (maybe they made a lot of good edits and accidentally removed one of the code tags in the process)? I've seen this happen and go unnoticed for quite awhile because (as you said), since the LOE page wasn't going do go through any real changes, no one bothered to check to make sure it appeared good on a regular basis.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 23:44, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
                •  Done Translcusion is gone, per discussion with Scorpion0422. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 22:34, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
  • I have added directors for the specials. They have no writers as such, as they are just clips, cast interviews etc.[44][45]
    • That's cool.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 23:15, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
  • The official DVD names are "The O.C. - The Complete ... Season" and as such are named like that, regardless of them not having their own article, and as for take a leaf from Smallville, it sums up episodes, double standards perhaps?
    • No, it lists the number of episodes in the season. I do not believe it actually holds the readers' hands and says "2+2=4". It allows them to add it up themselves.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 23:15, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
  • The thing you consider as a "DVD table" is a Series overview. The information is all presented elsewhere, what the hell is the point in mindlessly repeating it elsewhere. In fact you have said "what I find to be unnecessary is the repetative issuing of information in each of the [season] pages" at a previous FLC. Now you are arguing for repetition of DVD release dates.
    • A little different in this case, as you're providing an overview of when each season was released on a page that is an overview of the entire series. I didn't say repeat it all, I said add some release dates so that the reader doesn't have to go visit every single damn article just to find out when something was released. Not that hard. Don't get pissed because I'm trying to get you to pull the page up to a higher standard than I have been seeing in FLCs lately. To clarify, my oppositioni on the other FLC was over the huge chunk of repeated information being presented, in this case, the only information I'm saying should be present is the release dates for each region for each season.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 23:15, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
  • For "not each cell [standing alone]", the rows do not link something that has been linked in the row before, it says rows not columns.
    • There seems to be dissention over at the WP:OVERLINK talk page on this issue. It seems that others are slightly confused as well. I've asked for clarification on linking a name each time it appears when it appears in 3 rows in a row.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 23:15, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
• Support as article is easy to follow (works good as a table of contents to other articles) and well verified with multiple references. Good job! Sincerely, --A Nobody^{My talk} 15:14, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

• Comment I agree with Bignole that everything should be on the page, not transcluded from somewhere else. Why there are episode summaries when I press the edit button, but they don't show up on the page? -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 22:11, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
  • They are not meant to be there, it was just that Bignole copied the info from the season pages. If you think that they shouldn't transclude i'll get to work on remove the excess stuff that doesn't need to be there (the things that didn't transclude before) Rambo's Revenge (talk) 22:19, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
    • I've just never really been a big fan of transcluding lists, especially when it comes to FLs. It is confusing for IPs and even veteran users to edit. I'd prefer to see the tables here have some differences from the season tables. Perhaps the production code or ratings could be removed? -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 22:29, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
      • I have removed the "hidden" episode summaries. Do you think the production codes and ratings should go as well? Rambo's Revenge (talk) 22:34, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
        • It's up to you, it doesn't matter to me either way. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 22:46, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
          • I would leave the ratings, not sure bout the prodcodes. It would require a new template to be made. (See this) But I will do this if there is enough demand for it. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 22:53, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
            • You know my stance on the prod codes, but I would keep the ratings. It's nice to see the transition in ratings as the seasons went on (as opposed to making that season only, in which case you'd have to look at every season page to get an idea of how the ratings increased/decreased over time).  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 23:30, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
              •  Done, prod codes have gone, ratings have stayed. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 17:07, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

CommentIs there a reason to use the full month names in the table? Are 3 letter abreviations not considered standard enough to be used? I noticed beacuse some cause entries to be twice as high as others, which attracts the eye. Abbreviating would fix this. Other than that, this looks as good as the other FLs, so i support.Dillypickle (talk) 13:14, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

The 3 letter month abbreviations are not used. WP:MONTH says that months should be expressed as "whole words". Thanks, Rambo's Revenge (talk) 14:40, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

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The list was promoted by User:Scorpion0422 01:46, 6 December 2008 [46].

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List of premiers of Prince Edward Island

Gary King (talk) 20:35, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Support Comment Please get an experienced image reviewer (i.e. User:David Fuchs to verify that all images are properly licensed/attributed. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:25, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

I've left a note to Fuchs about the FLCs. Gary King (talk) 15:49, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

God, Dabomb you need to stop referring everyone to me. Gary just doesn't know when to stop :P

• Image:George Coles.jpg - the original source/author needs to be restored.
• Image:John Walter Jones.jpg - source that author is dead 70 years?

Leave me a note on my talk, I'm not watching these pages. --Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^(talk) 02:07, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Done both. Also, I had already asked Awadewit to check the images for some of my other lists so there's less work for you. Gary King (talk) 02:50, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Ok, images check out. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^(talk) 13:03, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Coomet Can the rows without images be made the same height as those with? At least for w/o image entries between 2 with-image entries. The pictures really make one subconciously consider them to be more important, and similar height might help rectify this. Other than that, i supportDillypickle (talk) 13:22, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

I see what you're saying, but I don't think that would look good. Also, the other 12 lists use this same format (they are linked to from here). Gary King (talk) 16:03, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Scorpion0422 22:30, 2 December 2008 [47].

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List of FA Trophy winners

I am listing this list for Featured List status as I feel it meets all the criteria, please feel free to agree, disagree, or chastise me for excessive use of the word "list" :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 21:53, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Comments

• There should be way more categories that can fit into this article.
• As a non-educated person about association football, you should tell the readers what a replay is in association football.

-- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 23:19, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

I have both explained and wikilinked replay, and added a couple more categories...... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:01, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Comments Can you put dashes (or something else) in the empty boxes (eg, Last final won and others), so they auto sort to the bottom instead of the top with the first click.

Could you add a little on what they actually win? I know the info is in the main article, but there is space here, and it saves on clicking. Other than that, looks good, so i support Yobmod (talk) 15:10, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Done that both -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 15:13, 24 November 2008 (UTC).

Ha, i was still writing! Yobmod (talk) 15:15, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

• As per the Peer Review, I'm afraid that I still think this information should be the basis of the main FA Trophy article rather than span off into a separate two-table article. It's certainly more important and relevant to the main article than some of the stuff in there (e.g. venues, sponsorship). Even if this succeeds as a FLC, I think it's imperative that the main final results table goes back in the FA Trophy article. Other than that, it's misnamed - should be List of FA Trophy finals as the runners-up have equal prominence to the winners, and I'd get rid of the colour shading for extra time etc. - fchd (talk) 18:35, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Fair enough, obviously your points can't really be actioned within the scope of an FLC as I would normally look to do, as you're essentially asking for the article to be merged into another article, but I'll see what other people think and will accept the majority view. Out of interest, do you feel that existing FLs like List of FA Cup winners and List of UEFA Cup winners, the precedent for which I felt I was following with this article, should be merged back into their parent articles and/or re-named? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 19:01, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

• Support - This list meets the criteria set out and as other lists stated above have been awarded FL status i see no reason why this one shouldnt. The problem is with the FA trophy page itself needing more detail rather than this list being on another page. Venues, sponsorship and other similiar things are information some people seek to know and belong on that page. The name also seems fine to me, a list shouldnt be condemned because it seeks to provide the reader with as much information as possible. BritishWatcher (talk) 01:21, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

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The list was promoted by User:Scorpion0422 22:30, 2 December 2008 [48].

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List of Indiana Pacers head coaches

-- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 19:58, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

• Support —Chris! _ct 23:27, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments by Chrishomingtang

Comment

• charter member -> member

charter member means that you came from that league. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 20:26, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

• The table should have a separator (I mean, colspan) between season in ABA and those in NBA

It isn't necessary. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 20:26, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

It is because it is clearer. Because people won't know when the team is in ABA or NBA. Also people won't know why some of the years aren't linked—Chris! _ct 20:29, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

DONE I also forgot that the Pacers won 3 championships in the ABA, so yeah... -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 21:06, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

• "1980–81 NBA Coach of the Year" missing ref
• link George Irvine

This is not a sortable table, so there should be no overlinking. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 20:26, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Well, table are exception to WP:OVERLINK. But this is not a big deal, so I guess I'll drop this.—Chris! _ct 20:32, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

• The Larry Bird note is unnecessary since this list is about coaches

Sure, but at first, I thought that readers may wonder why Larry Bird wasn't elected into the Basketball Hall of Fame. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 20:26, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

—Chris! _ct 20:16, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

DONE all without comments

• Support - This was on my to-do list, you beat me to it. Looks almost identical to the other NBA Head Coaches lists that are FL. Very well done. HoosierState^Talk 21:08, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments from SRX [TRUco]

Review by SRX [TRUco]

• Larry Bird, who coached three seasons with the Pacers, is the Pacers' all-time leader for the highest winning percentage with .687. - comm before with.
• Bird is also the only coach to win an NBA Eastern Conference championship with the Pacers, in the 2000 NBA Playoffs, but lost in the 2000 NBA Finals against the Los Angeles Lakers. - sounds confusing. How about, ..with the Pacers, winning the 2000 NBA Playoffs, but losing the 2000 NBA Finals against the Los Angeles Lakers.
• Remove the extra space between the lead and the first section, as it is causing a break with the Table of Contents.
• Coaches: The note 3 championships (1970, 1972, 1973)[4] - like in your other list, should be 3 ABA Championships (1970, 1972, 1973)--TRU_CO 22:28, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

DONE all. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 00:40, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Support - meets WP:WIAFL standards.TRU_CO 02:00, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:08, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

• "Dick Versace, and Bird have spent their entire NBA coaching careers with the Pacers." No comma necessary.
• "Jim O'Brien has been the head coach of the Pacers since 2007–08."-->Jim O'Brien has been the head coach of the Pacers since the 2007–08 season. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:47, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

DONE -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 00:02, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

• Support Great, informative list! Reywas92^Talk 16:40, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

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---

List of Sacramento Kings head coaches

I am nominating because I think it fulfills the FL criteria.—Chris! _ct 00:05, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Resolved review from SRX [TRUco]

Comment - excellent list,

• In the table, for coach Harrison, his achievement states 1 championship (1951), I believe it would be better worded as being NBA Championship (1951). Other than that, prose checks out fine.--TRU_CO 00:47, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Done —Chris! _ct 01:10, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

• Support - my review was resolved to improve the article to FL standards.--TRU_CO 01:24, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

• Comment I would change the level 2 headings for the key and table to level 3 or lower, so they are not so split up, and can be edited more easily together, then make a level 2 header called coaches that includes both. (or some other combination of titles, as long as key is nearer to table). Apart from that, i think it passes all the criteria and support featuring.Yobmod (talk) 09:11, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:59, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

• "which merged with NBL to become the NBA a year later" Add the before "NBL".
• "The franchise won its first NBA championship in the 1951 NBA Finals, while coached by Lester Harrison."-->The franchise won its first NBA championship in the 1951 NBA Finals, under the coaching of Lester Harrison. The way it is right now, the second phrase is rather disconnected from the independent clause.
• "by a group of Kansas City businessmen,"-->by a group of businessmen from Kansas City,
• "In 1982, the franchise was brought by a Sacramento group and became the Sacramento Kings." "Sacramento group"-->Sacramento-based group
• "The Kings is currently owned by the Maloof family and coached by Reggie Theus." "is"-->are.
• "It was briefly named Kansas City-Omaha Kings" Add a "the" before "Kansas City".
• "Harrison, Bobby Wanzer, Ed Jucker, Bob Cousy, Draff Young, Jerry Reynolds and Reggie Theus have all spent their entire coaching careers with the Kings." Dabomb87 (talk) 23:58, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Done all—Chris! _ct 00:46, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Scorpion0422 22:30, 2 December 2008 [50].

---

List of Wilfrid Laurier University people

first FLC (18:54, 21 May 2008)
previous FLC (15:52, 25 October 2008)

A lot more people have been added since the last FLC, including a list of honorary degree recipients. Gary King (talk) 18:39, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

• Comment The Honorary degree recipients section uses the same ref over and over and over again. Maybe you should remove the ref column in that section and just add it to the top (or put Source [insert link) at the bottom of the section. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 21:35, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

  Done Gary King (talk) 21:42, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

• Comment I opposed the last FLC on the grounds of comprehensiveness, but am happy with that now. However, I would like (a) a note of what the hon degree recipients are famous for and (b) the odd photo of them, if available. Any chance? Bencherlite^Talk 10:04, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

  Done Gary King (talk) 21:42, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

  References are surely required for this info (since it's not covered by the general ref for the hon degree recipients). Some dates (e.g. of holding office) would be good, too. Bencherlite^Talk 19:16, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

  Okay; I will remove the column for now while I work on that. Gary King (talk) 19:21, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

• comment I know that list like this can never be certain to be comprehensive, but it would be better to put the sub-lists that are comprehensive (chancellors, honorary degrees) first, imo. I hope you do it, but it's not worth an oppose, so i'll weak support for now.Yobmod (talk) 15:02, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

  I think this format is more useful because for one thing, I imagine most people think of alumni first when thinking of people associated with a university. I'll leave it like this for now unless there is more opposition to it. Gary King (talk) 20:33, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:18, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs) All the prose issues were resolved at the last FLC, but I have sourcing quibbles:

• Ref 44 is missing everything except for the URL.
• Refs 57 and 73 are missing PDF parameters in their citations.
• I don't have the time or willpower to go through every reference to make sure that all possible information has been included in the citations. I can tell you that all references to public affairs need publication dates. I think the page titles should be more detailed—use the name of the news stories themselves rather than "Wilfrid Laurier University - Public Affairs - Headlines".
• More examples of publication dates: Refs 26 and 27.
• In many cases, you've put the base name of the URL as the publisher of the site; put the actual name of the site whenever possible for better descriptions e.g. (Ref 27) Instead of "library.wlu.ca", Put "Laurier Library". Dabomb87 (talk) 18:23, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

All done Gary King (talk) 19:01, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

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---

Timeline of the 1983 Atlantic hurricane season

Despite this article just being created, there is nothing more I can really add. The Timeline follows the structure of the other Atlantic Timelines and all storms are included. With nothing more I can really do with it, I am nominating it for Featured List. All thoughts and comments are welcome :) Cyclonebiskit (talk) 22:55, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Where is the formation for TD 1? Also, on the bottom, should it really say "none" for timelines before and after? Is that the format? ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 23:15, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Fixed both of them. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 23:16, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Support- Even though I rated this article like 20-30 min ago, I think it is good for a FLC.----Neka 2008! 23:18, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

If you think I am biased, you can get rid of my support.--Neka 2008! 23:22, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Review by SRX [TRUco]

Comment - excellent list, comprehensive prose and list, one thing however - The season ended about a month and a half later on September 30. ~ this needs to be more specific i.e one month and 28 days per WP:Weasel.--TRU_CO 23:34, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Ok, changed it to "month and 16 days later" Cyclonebiskit (talk) 23:37, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

• Support - my review was addressed in order to comply with WP:WIAFL.--TRU_CO 23:39, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

• Support - the only thing i saw wrong with it was the year in the lead but since it was so minor i just corrected it Jason Rees (talk) 00:01, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose The timeline picture is very confusing at first glance. Please consider making a new one, as it took me a good while to understand it. - NuclearWarfare ^{contact me}_{My work} 00:05, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

I should have put a note here first, sorry. There is currently a bug on the site which I cannot fix. It has been reported and hopefully it is being worked on. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 00:10, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Err....That auto edit killed the timeline...It's a very fragile image, if one thing in it is changed, it might not show up until the correct spacing (I don't know why, it just works) is done to allow just the image to show. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 00:15, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Meddled around to fix timeline.--Neka 2008! 00:17, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 00:18, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

That is very interesting. In that case, I'll still keep my oppose up, but please don't take it personally, as I just want all of the Featured Lists to be at the best possible detail. Also, the picture is broken in every previous revision and the current one. - NuclearWarfare ^{contact me}_{My work} 00:19, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

I understand. BTW, when I said killed, I meant that the image was a ? in a box, now it at least shows the image. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 00:23, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

See bug 16085 regarding the timeline function. –Juliancolton ^{Tropical Cyclone} 01:19, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

The timeline as I (Rambo's Revenge) see it.

• Oppose based on the bug with the timeline. While the bug may be beyond control, I'm afraid that I cannot support the featuring of this list while it remains inaccessible to many users. Hopefully a way around this can be found, as the rest of the list looks very good. The thumbnail (right) is what I see. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 15:36, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

That's what I see with the timeline too. How is the page inaccessible? Cyclonebiskit (talk) 16:09, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

It is the timeline that is inaccessible. It has no text on it, no legend, no labels, nothing. However the code suggests it should have labels etc.
e.g. from:01/05/1983 till:01/06/1983 text:May
Notice that no text is shown in the screenshot image (right). Rambo's Revenge (talk) 16:22, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

That's what the bug does. It doesn't show text for me either. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 16:24, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

I know that is what the bug does. I am saying that because it should display text, and I cannot endorse the supporting of the list with this bug in it. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 16:28, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Can i just point out to all those who are opposing this FLC because of the bug, thats affecting ALL of the timelines at the minute that have been edited in the last month. That the Timeline of the 2003 Atlantic hurricane season passed its FLC with the timeline image not showing up the text.[[52]] Jason Rees (talk) 16:37, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree, and I advise people to not oppose an article because of a bug that is affecting all such timelines, and cannot be addressed by the nominator. It will likely be disregarded by the closing FL director, as it is not actionable. Thank you. –Juliancolton ^{Tropical Cyclone} 16:49, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

I think I have a Solution, I made an image out of the timeline, This is for 2003, but see please. --Neka 2008! 23:41, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

2003's Timeline

Great job, so much for it being "not actionable"!Yobmod (talk) 10:00, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Well, didn't think of an image at first ;) Cyclonebiskit (talk) 14:09, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Note: There is now an ongoing centralised discussion about opposes based on bug 16085 here. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 12:22, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

• Opposing with current timeline bug. The image idea might be an ok stopgap, but the current state is certainly not. An article in which the info is not displayed due to a bug is certainly not an example of wikipedia's best work. Why aren't people fixing it instead of submitting FLC like this?Yobmod (talk) 15:08, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Because its a wikipedia wide problkem Jason Rees (talk) 15:42, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

There's nothing I can do either. I barely know how the timeline image works, let alone how to fix it. As Jason Rees stated, the 2003 timeline was promoted with the same issue, as was the Timeline of the 2005 Pacific hurricane season. I understand that the timeline is an issue, but what I don't understand is how something that cannot be fixed by us (I think) is such an issue. JW, any thoughts on the actual Timeline not the image? Cyclonebiskit (talk) 17:27, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

If the tempate isn't working, why use it? Make another one, using table wikiformatting, or find another way to show the info. I understand it is not the articles editors fault that this broke, but it still doesn't show wikipedia's best work, unless our best template editors are really that bad.Yobmod (talk) 21:35, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

As Elena85 has done with the 2003 timeline, I created an image of it and added the text, I've already put it on the page so things should be good on that end (just with the timeline, not the overall issue with the bug). Cyclonebiskit (talk) 18:34, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

I struck my oppose mow that image is there.

Further comment: why does August 27th have 2 entries, both with the same cite? Shouldn't they be combined?Yobmod (talk) 09:57, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

• Fixed, the second one was the 28th and the second 28th is now the 29th Cyclonebiskit (talk) 12:24, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

• Comment. Much better with the image there now. I took it upon myself to do an image mapping to provide the links that the unbugged timeline should. Hope you don't mind. Only thing is that in the image it should say Alicia not Anita. Otherwise, fine Rambo's Revenge (talk) 19:18, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Haha, oops, I'll fix it soon and thanks for mapping it :) Cyclonebiskit (talk) 19:21, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Fixed it. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 19:28, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Speedy! I now support this nomination. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 19:33, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 18:29, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

• Sorry I didn't comment sooner, I was waiting for all the image issues to blow over.
• "during which only four tropical cyclones formed."
• Image captions that are not complete sentences should not have periods at the end.
• "However, the first named storm, Hurricane Alicia, formed on August 15. "
• "Hurricane Alicia had its name retired due to the loss of life and severe damage in Texas."-->Hurricane Alicia had its name retired due to the fatalities and severe damage caused in Texas.
• "Hurricane Barry was a weak Category 1 hurricane which traveled almost due west across the Gulf of Mexico for most of its track, before making landfall in extreme northern Mexico."-->Hurricane Barry was a weak Category 1 hurricane that traveled almost due west across the Gulf of Mexico for most of its track before making landfall in extreme northern Mexico.
• "Tropical Depression One passes over the island of Saint Lucia with winds of 35 mph (55 km/h)" Needs a period at the end.
• "Hurricane Alicia strengthens into a major hurricane—a storm with winds of 111 mph " Needs a period at the end.
• You've mixed Template:Citation with Template:Cite XXX, per MOS, you should only use one format. I suggest changing refs 10 and 11 to use the cite news template. Dabomb87 (talk) 17:48, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

It's ok, at least you did comment. :) I have correct all but one of the issues you addressed. The only one not done is the second to last one you mentioned since the period is already there. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 17:58, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Whoops, didn't see the line break there. Why did you delete that sentence with the statistics about Alicia? Dabomb87 (talk) 18:01, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

My bad, I just put it back. I accidentally lumped it together with the sentence before it which needed to be changed. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 18:16, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Scorpion0422 22:30, 2 December 2008 [53].

---

List of current Canadian first ministers

This is a list of current Canadian Premiers and its Prime Minister, known together as first ministers. Gary King (talk) 19:41, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Killervogel5

Comments from Killervogel5

I don't usually review non-sports lists, but I like Canada, and I want to branch out.

• If you are using abbreviations in the table (CP, SP, NDP), then they need to be noted in the lead after the first iteration.
• I would comment on the colors, but I think everything with them is OK. I think.
• In the lead you mention that three Premiers are from the Conservative Party of Canada, but the table doesn't link to the Conservative Party of Canada, it goes to the provinces. Maybe this should be indicated in a key or in the lead.
• No sort facilities - I would recommend adding a column to specify federation, province, territory, then add sort facilities.

• If you aren't going to sort, only the first iteration of an element in a table needs to be linked (really just referring to the parties at this point).
  

All done Gary King (talk) 02:13, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

• I would change the name of "Notes" to "Ref", since there are no written notes, but only reference links.

To Reference, not to Ref, since readers may not understand what a ref is. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 23:52, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

• References are, or should be, present and prevalent in every article on Wikipedia. They also direct to the references section. Aside from the obvious whitespace issues, Ref is sufficient. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 00:35, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Just put Reference just in case, since on Wiktionary, [http:www.en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Ref Ref] abbreviates three things. Also, I think think Ref is a word in the dictionary. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 00:50, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

• With the amount of FLs that currently use a "Ref" column, I think either is acceptable. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 01:17, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

• Viewing the list on a standard 1152x864 monitor, "References" now takes up so much space that it makes the line break. I still recommend using "Ref" for this purpose. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 14:54, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

The line break is created purposely. Gary King (talk) 16:24, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

• Oh! Is this to alleviate the whitespace issue? KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 18:26, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Yep Gary King (talk) 18:31, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Support from KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 18:33, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Hope this helps. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 23:04, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

I think that's everything? Gary King (talk) 16:24, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments from -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24

Minor comments

• The templates do not link to this article.
• Suggest for adding images of the ministers onto the table.

-- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 23:52, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

More comments

• "the newest Premier is Brad Wall of Saskatchewan, who assumed office on November 21, 2007." Isn't Eva Aariak the newest Premier?
• "All but one of the Premiers are men, and were born in the province or territory that they now govern. The longest-serving Premier is Gary Doer of Manitoba, who has held the position since October 5, 1999; the newest Premier is Brad Wall of Saskatchewan, who assumed office on November 21, 2007. Doer, who was born in 1948, is also the oldest sitting premier; the youngest Premier, Robert Ghiz of Prince Edward Island, was born in 1974." this whole thing should be referenced.

-- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 01:29, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Both done. For the first, her term hasn't started yet so I just said that she will assume office in 2008. Gary King (talk) 02:34, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

• Support -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24_[c] 08:18, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Support Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs) I made most minor fixes myself, but here are a couple comments:

• Format ref 16 so that it looks like the others.
• none is overlinked in the table. Do you really need to link Canada in the table, too? Dabomb87 (talk) 01:04, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Done Gary King (talk) 02:40, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

• Comment: Guide Color chart, dang it. Circeus (talk) 16:03, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

  Done Gary King (talk) 21:22, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Comment Add a note on ref 5 that says registration is required to read the full article. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:22, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Added. I think that's how you do it? Gary King (talk) 04:12, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Yep. Dabomb87 (talk) 05:34, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Scorpion0422 22:30, 2 December 2008 [54].

---

List of Gantz chapters

I have nominated this list to FLC after having a peer review, and comments from the wikiproject manga and anime, saying it was easy to understand. The summaries were copy-edited after being written and the references are reliable sources. Regards.Tintor2 (talk) 16:12, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Support: I reviewed the list before it was nominated. Since then, all my issues have been resolved. -- Goodraise (talk) 09:52, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 18:28, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Oppose from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs) There are just too many prose issues; this is from the first two episode summaries alone:

• "they have to kill a little creature, apparently an alien, in order to survive."
• "The tall alien attacks Kato making him fall from a a bridge and finds Kurono and Kishimoto." Comma after Kato.
• "After that another teenager named Joichiro Nishi, who was among the other people from the building kills the alien." Comma after "building".
• "With the alien's death every person who survived return to the building."-->After the alien's death, the survivors return to the building.
• "The ones who return are Kurono, Kishimoto, Nishi and Kato whose injures are healed." Comma after "Kato"
• "The ball Gantz displays a score with the points of the ones who returned." Unclear. What displays the score?

I will try to help copy-edit if I can. Dabomb87 (talk) 16:02, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Done the fixes showed.Tintor2 (talk) 16:24, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

I copy-edited the first five chapters, make sure to address the inline comments I put in. Dabomb87 (talk) 16:42, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Done. Thanks.Tintor2 (talk) 16:46, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Done 6–10, more inlines to address. I will have to do more copy-editing later, I have other things to do now. Dabomb87 (talk) 17:03, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Done.Tintor2 (talk) 17:49, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Done 11–15. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:44, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Done.Tintor2 (talk) 15:47, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Done up to 21. I have something to do but will be back in about 30–40 minutes or so. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:59, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Done.Tintor2 (talk) 16:44, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Done copy-editing. Also, per MOS, the titles of the references should not be all caps. Dabomb87 (talk) 17:10, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Done.Tintor2 (talk) 18:08, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

• Support, lead looks good, image is appropriate, and volume summaries are of a good length and cover volumes well. References all appear to meet WP:RS and links are all good. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 16:47, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Scorpion0422 22:30, 2 December 2008 [55].

---

Avatar: The Last Airbender (season 2)

This is the second of hopefully three featured lists candidates that will be going through FLC. After a lengthy peer review, it should be ready to go through FLC. So, what do you guys think? - NuclearWarfare ^{contact me}_{My work} 02:30, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

• Checklinks for this particular list already done. - NuclearWarfare ^{contact me}_{My work} 02:34, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 04:43, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Yay :D - NuclearWarfare ^{contact me}_{My work} 04:50, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

• "Season Two (Book 2: Earth) of Avatar: The Last Airbender, an American animated television series on Nickelodeon, first aired its 20 episodes from March 17, 2006 to December 1, 2006."-->Season Two (Book 2: Earth) of Avatar: The Last Airbender, an American animated television series on Nickelodeon, aired 20 episodes from March 17, 2006 to December 1, 2006.
  • There were reruns of the show during this period; first aired is better, I believe. - NuclearWarfare ^{contact me}_{My work} 23:24, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
• "The season begins with protagonist Aang, and his friends Katara and Sokka, and their quest to find an Earthbending teacher"-->In the season's beginning, the protagonist Aang and his friends Katara and Sokka are on a quest to find an Earthbending teacher.
  • Done. - NuclearWarfare ^{contact me}_{My work} 23:24, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
• "which finishes when they recruit Toph." How does the quest "finish"?
  • I thought that it is implied that Toph becomes his teacher. In any case, she is wikilinked. - NuclearWarfare ^{contact me}_{My work} 23:24, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
• "The season ends with Ba Sing Se falling to the Fire Nation, and Aang escaping with his friends on a recovered Appa."-->At the season's end, Ba Sing Se falls to the Fire Nation and Aang escapes with his friends on a recovered Appa.
  • Done. - NuclearWarfare ^{contact me}_{My work} 23:24, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
• "Only three volumes have been released for Region 2." Shouldn't it be "Only the first three volumes have been released for Region 2."?
  • Oops. Fixed.
• "The majority of the"-->Most of the...
  • Done - NuclearWarfare ^{contact me}_{My work} 23:24, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
• "All of the season's music was composed by"
  • Done - NuclearWarfare ^{contact me}_{My work} 23:24, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
• "However, several new characters also appear"
  • Done - NuclearWarfare ^{contact me}_{My work} 23:24, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
• "In addition, two other characters"
  • Change to "Two antagonists, Mai and Ty Lee, are introduced as Azula's minions who are tasked with capturing Aang"
• "though it did not win." Not a complete sentence.
  • Somehow the info was deleted from a long time ago. I readded it. - NuclearWarfare ^{contact me}_{My work} 23:24, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

I will review the episode summaries later. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:43, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

• What makes the following sites reliable sources?
  • http://www.dvdactive.com/reviews/dvd/avatar-the-last-airbender-book-2-vl-1.html
  • http://www.film.com/celebrities/ethan-spaulding/20193248
  • http://www.hollywood.com/tv/Avatar_The_Last_Airbender/5205494
    • Not sure. I wasn't around when this was added. Any other contributor want to chime in? - NuclearWarfare ^{contact me}_{My work} 20:14, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
      • Ask User :Rau J. Dabomb87 (talk) 20:29, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
        • DVD Active's sourcing is used as a review; and everyone is entitled to their own opinion and we are using this a source to their quote; not to an informational analysis. As for the other two, I'd have to find out its usage as a cite...which I'll do soon. --haha169 (talk) 00:05, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
          • I've replaced the other 2 with more reliable sources.--haha169 (talk) 02:57, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
            • Unfortunately, you added sources to IMDb, which is generally not considered reliable. Dabomb87 (talk) 03:49, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
              • Replaced source with a TV Guide one. - NuclearWarfare ^{contact me}_{My work} 04:42, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
• "Aang, Katara, Sokka, Momo, and Appa travel to an Earth Kingdom military base to receive an escort to the city of Omashu" Doesn't make sense. Why would someone receive an escort to a place?
  • They actually are being escorted to the city, as it is a wartime situation. - NuclearWarfare ^{contact me}_{My work} 20:14, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
• "but released when pockmark on Sokka create the illusion of illness." Pluralize "pockmarks".
  • Done. - NuclearWarfare ^{contact me}_{My work} 20:14, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
• "While at an Earthbending tournament, the group see blind Earthbending master Toph." "see"-->sees. Add the before "blind".
  • Done. - NuclearWarfare ^{contact me}_{My work} 20:14, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
• "Aang challenges her and easily defeats her with Airbending,"
  • Done. - NuclearWarfare ^{contact me}_{My work} 20:14, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
• "but fails when Azula calls" Who is Azula?
  • added in apposition and wikilink
• "Eventually, Katara, Sokka, Iroh, and Toph all come and help to corner Azula."
  • Done. - NuclearWarfare ^{contact me}_{My work} 20:14, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
• "Aang tries to learn Earthbending from Toph, despite interference from his Airbending philosophy."-->Despite interference from his Airbending philosophy, Aang tries to learn Earthbending from Toph.
  • Done. - NuclearWarfare ^{contact me}_{My work} 20:14, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
• "The gang then continues to Ba Sing Se, now with two goals to complete within the city." "within"--in.
  • Done. - NuclearWarfare ^{contact me}_{My work} 20:14, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
• "but learns instead that Zuko and Iroh are Firebenders after seeing Iroh heat his tea at a Ba Sing Se train station."
  • Done. - NuclearWarfare ^{contact me}_{My work} 20:14, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
• "The mini-episode where Iroh helps out people in the town was dedicated to Mako."
  • Done. - NuclearWarfare ^{contact me}_{My work} 20:14, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
• "fleeing a startled farmer"-->fleeing from a startled farmer
  • Done. - NuclearWarfare ^{contact me}_{My work} 20:14, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
• "However, Zuko decides to free the Sky Bison and Aang and Appa are reunited at the end of the episode."-->However, Zuko decides to free the Sky Bison; Aang and Appa are reunited at the end of the episode.
  • Done. - NuclearWarfare ^{contact me}_{My work} 20:14, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
• "After returning from Lake Laogai, Zuko falls spiritually ill. " What does this mean?
  • Explained further.
• "The first five DVD releases contained one disc that consisted of four episodes each." "contained"-->contain.
  • Done. - NuclearWarfare ^{contact me}_{My work} 20:14, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
• "which contained all of the episodes in the season dispersed on five discs"-->which contains all of the episodes in the season on five discs
  • Done. - NuclearWarfare ^{contact me}_{My work} 20:14, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
• "All of the DVD sets for Book 2 were released with Region 1 encoding, meaning they can only play on North American DVD players." Add "that" before "they".
  • Done. - NuclearWarfare ^{contact me}_{My work} 20:14, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
• The second general ref needs a publication date. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:02, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Done. - NuclearWarfare ^{contact me}_{My work} 20:19, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

• Support: Following the peer review I find the article to be of a very high standard and, including the odd little improvements here at FLC, believe it meets the FL criteria. I especially commend the inventive use of colour to match the series title page/cover. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 02:46, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Yay, thanks! For those who are wondering, SFB was the one who did the peer review. - NuclearWarfare ^{contact me}_{My work} 03:06, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Scorpion0422 22:30, 2 December 2008 [56].

---

List of Germany international footballers

Self-nom. I believe this list fits the FL criteria, as it:

1. Is Well-written
2. Is well-defined by its lead
3. Is as comprehensive as would be practical, with clear inclusion criteria
4. Is navigable and sortable
5. Is consistent with the Wikipedia MoS
6. Uses colours, formatting and images to convey and illustrate information
7. Is largely consistent and uncontroversial, with only occasional updates required.

I believe it is of comparable quality to equivalent FLs, such as List of Sweden international footballers. ArtVandelay13 (talk) 13:35, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Really? Cannibaloki 05:23, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 14:26, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Weak Support Oppose Almost a quick-fail. Needs significant work, let us go down the failed FL criteria:

• Lead: The lead is nowhere large enough. Provide some background information on the footballers. Write about notable footballers and significant stats. The lead should provide enough context for the reader rather than a dull introduction to the table. There should not be a sentence in the lead for "see also"; those references belong in the See also section and the Categories.
• Comprehensiveness: Needs a key. What I said about expanding the lead above applies here.
• Style: Breaches WP:MOSDASH in the lead; replace those hyphens (national team - it covers players with 20 or more appearances) with en dashes. Breaches WP:ACCESS and WP:COLORS in table, use symbols such as (* ^ #) to provide information in conjunction with the colors.
• Referencing: Needs inline citations. This lack of inlines is understandable, because as of yet there is no need to verify the lead, which right now is just a description of a table. However, when you expand the lead and add appropriate info, add inline citations as needed.

All in all, needs a lot of work Dabomb87 (talk) 13:49, 18 November 2008 (UTC) More Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

• Looks much better.
• Inline citations should go after punctuation.
  • done
• "and during this time many of its players have made a significant impact on the game." This is a vague phrase that can be deleted.
  • done
• I still think the lead can be expanded more. Add more information about individual players (most appearances, most wins, most awards) and games.
  • done - expanded significantly
• "20 of its players have won both the World Cup and UEFA European Championship and five have won gold, silver and bronze medals at the World Cup. " Per MOSNUM, sentences should not start with a numeral. "20"-->Twenty.
  • No longer the beginning of a sentence
• "In addition five players have won" Comma after addition.
  • No longer applicable
• "Due to the country's turbulent 20th century history" Instead of adding a POV word like turbulent, provide more background on what exactly made Germany's history "turbulent" (wars, political strife, economic concerns, etc.).
  • Changed - all the events that affected the team are specified
• "many of Germany's 1938 World Cup squad were from the then-annexed Austria"—"many"-->most.
  • not done- 9 of 22 were Austrian, so it wasn't most
• "After World War II, and the break-up of Germany" First comma is not needed.
  • done
• "During this time"—"time"-->period.
  • done
• "plus"-->including.
  • Not done - I've changed to 'and', because it's not really including; it's an intersect
• You don't need to link column headers since they are linked in the key.
  • done
• Add all the column headers to the key (Pos and caps).
  • done
• Spell out the lesser-known abbreviations in the references (FIFA, RSSSF, UEFA).
  • done
• Add format=PDF to reference 5. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:32, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
  • done
• Shouldn't the page title be "List of German international footballers"?
  • No - naming convention on WP uses the national team name - to show that it's players who played for Germany, not just any German international, which could include players for the other German national teams, dual nationals, etc. Otherwise resolved ArtVandelay13 (talk) 09:14, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
• "World football" Why is this capitalized?
• Reference 5 needs a last access date. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:49, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments from KV5

Strong oppose Agreed as above with DB87 on all counts. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 17:01, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

• Currently neutral. Still a couple of issues.

• There are images in the table area but none in the lead. Move up one of the images to the lead section.
• In the key, you don't need to link the position and the abbreviation. Just link the spelled-out name.

• Otherwise, well constructed at this point. Sorting seems to work well, which is more than I can say for a lot of lists I review. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 14:13, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

OK - both issues resolved. ArtVandelay13 (talk) 16:10, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Per everyone else's resolved comments, I support this list for promotion. I applaud the FL community for working together on this list that needed a lot of edits and a lot of eyes, and also editor ArtVandelay13 for his continuous work for the last two weeks. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 12:59, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose — Sorry, but this needs substantial work. The lead needs to be expanded, inline citations are needed, and there are MOS breaches, just to name a few things. I suggest withdrawing this to work on it in your own time. Cheers, –Juliancolton ^{Tropical Cyclone} 17:44, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose: The article needs a lot of work done! As per above, the lead needs to be expanded and inline citations added. -- Underneath-it-All (talk) 19:40, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

• OK: I think I've addressed much of your comments: the lead is more descriptive, with citations, The key is more comprehensive, and the WP:ACCESS issues have been addressed. ArtVandelay13 (talk) 10:44, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

• Support It looks much better now—Chris! _ct 23:51, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments by Chrishomingtang

Comment

• • I think each citation should be placed after the punctuation, not before.
    • done
  • "Several hundred players" is unclear. Do you know the exact number?
    • not done - Can't find it, unfortunately
  • "One of the most successful national teams" is pov, in my opinion. You can't say that unless a specific source says that.
    • I've justified that statement a bit more
  • What is the Ballon d'Or? People who know nothing about football/soccer won't know
    • done - Clarified
  • Does this list include East Germany national footballers? I think you should clarify that in the lead
    • done - Clarified

—Chris! _ct 21:05, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

• • • I've addressed the specific concerns listed above - comments are in Italics. ArtVandelay13 (talk) 13:17, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Resolved review by SRX

• Oppose - Per above, lead needs to be expanded, tables need to be reformatted, and needs referencing to reliable sources.TRU_CO 22:37, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

• Since the Germany national football team's first official match in 1908,[1] it has been represented by several hundred players. - several is WP:WEASEL, needs to be more specific.
• It has been one of the most successful national teams in world football, having participated in sixteen World Cups and ten European Championships, winning three of each[2]. the citation should go after the period.

• I can't find the specific number, so I've removed it as it's not really relevant and is fairly self-evident.

• In doing so, 20 of its players have won both titles, and five have won gold, silver and bronze medals at the World Cup. - so in winning the world titles, 20 of the players have won both titles? That doesn't make sense, do you mean 2 teams of players have won it?

• It means that of the three world cup wins and three european championship wins, 20 players have been involved in one of each.

• Lothar Matthäus has played in a record 25 World Cup matches and his participation in five World Cup tournaments is a joint record. - joint with what other player?

• done

• Matthäus was the inaugural winner of the FIFA World Player of the Year award in 1991,[5] and is one of five Germany players to have been awarded European Footballer of the Year – Franz Beckenbauer and Karl-Heinz Rummenigge each having won the award twice. - reword Matthäus was the inaugural winner of the FIFA World Player of the Year award in 1991,[5] and is one of five German players to have been awarded the European Footballer of the Year – Franz Beckenbauer and the Karl-Heinz Rummenigge on two occasions.

• done

• Beckenbauer was also voted in eighth place for the FIFA Player of the Century award, and was named in the World Team of the 20th Century. - eight place is really not as notable as in the top 5. Also, do you mean he was selected as a player in the WT of the 20th century? (selected works better in that sentence)

• eigthth is still pretty notable among the millions of people that played football during the 20th century. Other change done

• Ten German players were named in the FIFA 100,[8] a list of the 125 greatest living footballers chosen by Pelé, and six are in the FIFA Century Club, having earned 100 or more caps. - who/what is Pele? Caps is WP:JARGON, needs to be elaborated as it is not a common term. Are needs to be changed to were for past tense.

• done, except the Century Club remains present tense - they still have 100+ caps, so it stays with them.

• Lothar Matthäus' 150 caps make him the ninth most capped player in world football, while Gerd Müller's 68 goals (in just 62 games) is the eighth most of any international player. - remove just.

• done

• Germany's borders underwent many changes during the 20th century, and which had an effect on the make-up of the German football team. - remove and.

• done

• Following the annexation of Austria, the Austrian team was absorbed into the German team, with the result that Germany's 1938 World Cup squad included many Austrians. - absorbed is wordy, merged would work better.

• not done - merged suggests a more equal partnership than was the case. The country and team was still called Germany in every respect.

• How about integrated? Dabomb87 (talk) 15:16, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

• Why is that better, though? ArtVandelay13 (talk) 09:18, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

• I don't really know actually; ask SRX (TRUco), this issue is a matter of personal style. Dabomb87 (talk) 14:00, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

• During this period the team was commonly known as West Germany[14] until reunification in 1990, when the East German team was re-integrated into the German national team. - add a the before reunification. Also, reintegrated is one word, no need for the dash.

• done

• It includes all players with 20 more appearances, or 10 or more goals, for the German team, and all capped players that were in the squad for a World Cup or European Championship finals. - very repetitive, how about It includes players with over 20 appearances, over 10 scored goals, and all capped players that were in the squad for a World Cup or European Championship finals.

• Not done - the current sentence better explains that it's any of these criteria, not all

My oppose remains per prose issues.TRU_CO 21:40, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

I've addressed your comments above. Responses in italics. ArtVandelay13 (talk) 15:12, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

• Support - my review was resolved to meet WP:WIAFL. Sorry for the late revisit.--SRX 01:26, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Oppose from Gary King (talk · contribs)

• "Matthäus was the inaugural winner of the FIFA World Player of the Year award in 1991,[5] and is one of five Germany players to have been awarded European Footballer of the Year – Franz Beckenbauer and Karl-Heinz Rummenigge on two occasions." – Shouldn't it be "one of three Germany players" if the other two won twice each? Also, it's worded strangely anyways at the end; the "person and person on two occasions" doesn't fit in well with the rest of the sentence
  • No, it's five players, two have which have won twice (seven wins). I've changed the last sentence to "twice each"
• "ninth most" – "ninth-most"
  • done
• "while Gerd" – "and Gerd"
  • done
• "eighth most" – "eighth-most"
  • done
• "many changes during" – linking "changes" to History of Germany? That's quite an assumption to think that readers will know where the word "changes" links to (readers should already have an idea of where links lead to, otherwise the links are poorly placed). Either remove the link or link a larger phrase, like "underwent many changes during the 20th century"—I assume that this is related to WWI and WWII, so probably would be more logical to even link to a specific section in the article concerning these events.
  • done - linked to a more appropriate article
• "with the result that Germany's 1938 World Cup squad included many Austrians." – "resulting in Germany's 1938 World Cup squad to include many Austrians."
  • not done - I'm sorry, that sentence doesn't work at all.
    • Try "resulting in Germany's 1938 World Cup squad's inclusion of many Austrians." Dabomb87 (talk) 21:55, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
      • That's better - although, on reflection, 'several' is more appropriate than 'many'. ArtVandelay13 (talk) 22:04, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
• "break-up of Germany" – perhaps link to a relevant article about the creation of West and East Germany
  • done - covered above
• "During this period the" – "During this period, the"
  • done

Gary King (talk) 20:36, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

OK, I've addressed your recommendations. Comments in italics. ArtVandelay13 (talk) 21:51, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

• I made a few more changes, but a few issues still remain.
• "Notes" column should not be sortable; why would anyone want to sort it? The information in there is not comparable, alphabetically-speaking.
  • Done - I wasn't aware you can do this with individual columns
• Check the table's sorting. "Klaus Allofs" and "Karl Allgöwer" are in the wrong order, for instance. Use {{sortname}} if the article isn't already.
  • Done - sortname is used, this row was incorrectly placed
• "captain, with" – "captain, and has"
  • Done
• "most successful era" – seems a bit subjective to me
  • It's qualified by mentioning that they won the two competitions consecutively; they haven't done this at any other time. I feel that adding more detail would be inappropriate for an image caption

Gary King (talk) 03:40, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

OK, same drill. ArtVandelay13 (talk) 16:37, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Support Gary King (talk) 20:00, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Comments

• For the benefit of those of your readers with less than perfect eyesight, please consider using normal rather than small font size for the notes column.
• done
• Numeric columns would look better either numerically-aligned (as done in player infoboxes), or centred; anything but left-aligned, really.
• done
• What's the significance of "Ehrenspielführer"?
• It's established in the key, but I've added a reference to it
  • I saw the translation, but was wondering what the concept meant. Does it have any relationship to team captain (as there are only 4 Ehrenspielführer but many team captains), or is it the name of an honour awarded after the player's career finishes, or what? Struway2 (talk) 15:33, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
    • Alright, I've added a para about it to the lead. ArtVandelay13 (talk) 15:58, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
• Perhaps change the caption of the Ballack picture to something like "Ballack was appointed captain in yyyy"; as it stands, it needs an as-of date and updating every game.
• done

cheers, Struway2 (talk) 13:41, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

replied. ArtVandelay13 (talk) 14:44, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

resolved satisfactorily. Struway2 (talk) 09:48, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Scorpion0422 22:30, 2 December 2008 [57].

---

Mark of the Year

previous FLC (20:26, 11 October 2008)
Comprehensive, well written, meets FL criteria; after two extensive peer-reviews and a failed FLC, this article is once more, ready to be a FL candidate. One of the main issues that other editors encountered with this article was that it was hard for those unfamiliar with Australian rules football to understand the jargon and football-related concepts. In light of this, I've re-written this article from the standpoint of someone who is encountering the topic for the first time. Once again, if there are any minor issues remaining, I'd be willing to work on them, until the article reaches FL status. --Flewis^(talk) 13:14, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

I notice that there are no actual book sources, so i would expect sources do exist for the missing data, but require a trip to the library. Hence i would oppose at this time, at least until print sources have been checked. I don't see how it is possible for newspapers of the time not to have these results, so this fails to be comprehensive. (Also, is Youtube a reliable source for these stats? What's to stop someone faking an official looking video on there?).Yobmod (talk) 15:10, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Issue fixed - A reference, namely this one was found. --Flewis^(talk) 05:46, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Also, Youtube is not being used as a source of information, it is only linked so as to present visual evidence. This issue has already been discussed in the previous FLC and Peer reviews. --Flewis^(talk) 07:03, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Are the Youtube videos not copywrite breaches by Youtube, which should therefore not be used as links? or are the PD for some reason?Yobmod (talk) 13:48, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

The usability of youtube videos has been discussed here. Copyright has been discussed here.--Flewis^(talk) 00:15, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

The copywrite discusion did not show that these are not illegal copywrite violations. You wrote:"However I failed to find an exact copyright pertaining to synthesis of sport broadcasts". Until that is known for certain i'm sure this wouldn't fly with featured articles and shouldn't with featured lists.Yobmod (talk) 13:51, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

If the links to the youtube videos are detrimental to the article/block to FL, then I see no reason not to remove them. I personally believe that the reader will want to see the mark, not just read about it. Linking directly to the video, is simply a convenience. Wikipedia is not paper after all, and a video link certainly sets this article apart, presenting both a textual and visual encyclopedia experience. On the other hand, copyright is a very serious issue, and Youtube is directly responsible for any copyright videos appearing on the site. As a rule of thumb, copyrighted material is either promptly removed from the site, or displayed with advertising. If the video has not been removed, we can safely assume that it is presented in a legal fashion. The wikimedia foundation cannot be held liable for what appears on youtube, so we can safely assume that a harmless link will not incur any legal action. --Flewis^(talk) 14:38, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

(outdent) It's not about what the reader wants, it's about breaking the law, and getting Wikipedia closed down. Anyone else noticed that the German courts have shut down wikipedia.de for something that should never have been in an article according to policy? I'm not a copywrite expert, so if an experienced user in this area can say we are not breaking the law, then that's fine. But at the moment, we have no indication at all. Official policy = If you know that an external Web site is carrying a work in violation of the creator's copyright, do not link to that copy of the work. Knowingly and intentionally directing others to a site that violates copyright has been considered a form of contributory infringement in the United States (Intellectual Reserve v. Utah Lighthouse Ministry [1]). Linking to a page that illegally distributes someone else's work sheds a bad light on Wikipedia and its editors. Yobmod (talk) 09:34, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

As the videos are now gone, i look over some other parts, and it looks nearly there. Some (one?) of the colour-code symbols are missing,m and i agree with those below that the descriptions of the win need to be sourced to someone. I'll go for neutral, as there still seems a lot of comments from others that need atending.Yobmod (talk) 08:37, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

This article is much improved over its first FL review, but there are 2 major issues and some minor ones:

• Several items in the list that are very important, like round and location, are missing. I've flagged SOME of these with HTML comments. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail)
  • Done --Flewis^(talk) 20:54, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
• Comments in the list which are not sourced may be perceived as WP:Original Research. If it's obvious from inspection of the video then it will probably be okay but if it's editorializing or even looks like it, or it contains facts not visible in a publicity photo, it should be sourced. 1975 is an example of one that must be sourced. Ideally, they all would be. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail)
  • Mostly done - there are a few other un-sourced descriptions, but the sources for them shouldn't be hard to find. --Flewis^(talk) 12:09, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
• The normal wikipedia rules of "only link the first instance" aren't done but they may not apply. However, the principle author should adopt a convention of when to link the same word or name more than once and document it on the talk page. If it makes sense to do so, this should be the wiki "first mention gets a link" rule. Because of the nature of the tables, I'm okay with a link in the first instance in each table, plus the first use in the article if different. I'm also okay with a link for every use in the tables, but try to avoid that if possible. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail)
  • To someone unfamiliar with Australian Rules football jargon, or to someone skimping through the article, an overlink when relevant to the context is helpful and necessary. Otherwise it may be best to WP:IAR? --Flewis^(talk) 15:00, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
• The use of single-quotes, double-quotes, italics, and bold needs to be standardized and documented on the talk page. The use of "fancy quotes" or "angled quotes" or "curley quotes" should be avoided. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail)
  • I don't understand. --Flewis^(talk) 12:09, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
    • See this edit. "Fancy" quote characters like ‘ and ’ and “ and ” (note: these characters may LOOK the same as normal quotes but check the wiki-source to see the difference) should be avoided except when necessary as they look awkward on some older platforms. Use ' and " instead. Sometimes, italics or bold is better than putting a word in quotes, I just played with the text and decided which one felt right and most consistent with the rest of Wikipedia when I made that edit. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 16:34, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
      • I can't seem find any instances of this type of formatting within the article. Could you please double check if the issue has been resolved? --Flewis^(talk) 12:53, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
        • I think it's been taken care of. But if and when new material is added by the editor who put them in in the first place, care should be taken not to introduce these again. Some word- and text-processors turn quotes into curly-quotes automatically, this feature should be turned off when preparing articles for Wikipedia.
• Is there a reason the links to videos are emphasized/bolded? Is there a reason it is in citation format rather than [http://www.url.goes.here description] inline format? davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail)
  • I wasn't entirely sure exactly how the video column had to be presented (a link to a MOS guideline regarding this issue would be great). Otherwise, the youtube videos were converted into citations for some reason here--Flewis^(talk) 07:41, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

I did some cleanup and some minor formatting changes. Please make sure none of my work introduced problems.

davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 05:10, 16 November 2008 (UTC) }}

Resolved comments from Ruhrfisch (talk)

Comments from Ruhrfisch (talk · contribs) Comments by Ruhrfisch: I peer reviewed this and was asked to look at the article for FLC. I do not normally write sport articles, do not follow or totally understand Australian Rules Football, and it has been some time since I last weighed in on an FLC. I reread the article, reread WP:WIAFL, and reread the pertinent parts of WP:MOS. I do not think this currently meets FL criteria, but also imagine the changes needed are relatively easy.

• Per the MOS, please give English units (feet or yards) as well as metric (metres). The {{convert}} template may help here.
  • Done--Flewis^(talk) 04:22, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
• I think the article is seriously overlinked - see WP:OVERLINK. For example, Australian Football League is linked four times in the article, and fairly common terms like Autralia and kick and ball are also linked. Note I am not specifically objecting to overlinks in the sortable table.
  • Most unnecessary links have been removed. Most of the links left within the prose are content-specific. E.g. ball --Flewis^(talk) 04:22, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
• Per MOS:IMAGE, Avoid sandwiching text between two images facing each other. but the image of the football and 2008 Mark of the Year Image sandwich the text.
  • Done--Flewis^(talk) 04:22, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
• One the criteria at WP:WIAFL is comprehensiveness: Comprehensiveness. It comprehensively covers the defined scope, providing a complete set of items where practical .... However, I am confused by the "Round. Ground" column in the list - it gives the game (match) in every case (so should the column header be "Game. Round. Ground"?) but it does not give the round every time. For example,current ref 38 says the 1998 Mark was in Round 18, but this information is not given in article.
  • Done--Flewis^(talk) 05:13, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Thanks, but 1973 and 1978 still need a ground listed. I would also suggest changing the column header to "Teams, Round, Ground" or "Match, Round, Ground" or "Game, Round, Ground". I wnt through and made this column consistent - commas between all entries, "vs" instead of "v" or "vs." Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 19:38, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
      • I think that's the last of them - Also I changed "Round, Ground" to "Match, Round, Ground"--Flewis^(talk) 10:44, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
        • Thanks, I struck but have one last question. For 1972 it says Halfback Peter Knights throws screamer against Collingwood.[3] - since this is about catching the ball, should the verb really be "throws"? Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 13:21, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
          • It's all colloquial jargon - see here [58] --Flewis^(talk) 13:37, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
• After looking at ref 38 and the information it is used for as a citation, I am not sure the description of the Mark matches the ref cited (this may be my ignorance of AFL terminology). As one example, the 2000 description is A chest mark over a pack in typical Tony Modra fashion.[38] while ref 38 says DETAILS: From within a pack, Tony Modra rose on the back of his opponent to yet again take a spectacular and memorable mark, this time from the kick by team mate Ashley Prescott. [59]. Note it does not say it was a "chest mark" and the "typical Tony Modra fashion" seems a bit of a stretch. Is this WP:OR?
  • No, the facts weren't wrong, however without a source, the description could be considered borderline OR. I've paraphrased the info from within the source, and replaced the previous commentary.--Flewis^(talk) 05:19, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Thanks - the descriptions really need to be made consistent. For example is it 'Overhead mark' (single quotes, 1970) or Overhead mark (no quotes, 1974) or why is only the 1976 Overhead mark linked (either link the first one, or link them all). Similarly is it 'screamer' (single quotes, 1972) or screamer (linked, 1974) or screamer (italics, 1976)? The names of the winners are also inconsistent in the descriptions - some are just last name, others are first and last name. I also note that all the descriptions end with a period / full stop, but should the fragments that are not full sentences end this way? Or is this an FL / MOS criterion somehow? Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 22:32, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
      • I cleaned up and added info to some of the "problematic" descriptions. I've also gone ahead and placed full-stops at the end of each of the descriptions, and fixed the linking issue. FL criteria does not specify exactly what the table must include, so there's some leeway there for personal opinions. I don't think naming inconsistencies within the descriptions is a problem though. Otherwise, I think I can basically say done in regards to these issues. --Flewis^(talk) 11:06, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
        • Struck. I made a few more cleanup edits - as always please revert / fix if I introduced any errors Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 13:21, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
• I raised this issue at the peer review and will raise it again here. I do not think that most or perhaps all of the many YouTube links are justified. There is no clear indication that I can see that they are posted by the copyright holder. Despite the claims made above, they are linked as inline citations, not given in the External links section. However, even if they were External links, WP:EL says under Restrictions on linking: For policy or technical reasons, editors are restricted from linking to the following, without exception: 1. Material that violates the copyrights of others per contributors' rights and obligations should not be linked. Linking to websites that display copyrighted works is acceptable as long as the website has licensed the work. Knowingly directing others to material that violates copyright may be considered contributory infringement. If you know that an external Web site is carrying a work in violation of the creator's copyright, do not link to that copy of the work. Linking to a page that illegally distributes someone else's work sheds a bad light on Wikipedia and its editors. This is particularly relevant when linking to sites such as YouTube, where due care should be taken to avoid linking to material that violates its creator's copyright. If they are references (which is how I see them), then you still should not link to a copyright violation. Perhaps we should find a copyright expert and ask them.
  • I mentioned this previously during a discussion with Yobmod at the top of this page, along with the respective PR's and previous FLC. I reiterate once more - If the video is currently on display on youtube, either:

1. 1. It's there with consent from the copyright holder
   2. The video has an expired copyright due to an Australian TV sporting law
   3. The video is a Copyvio that has not yet been discovered by the Copyright holder.

If this will be a block to FLC, then by all means, remove the videos. The only reason they're within the article, is to provide a direct link which will visually aid the prospective reader. It's your call. --Flewis^(talk) 05:27, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Please clarify which links / videos are in which category - obviously types 1 and 2 are OK and type 3 links need to be removed. Type 2 seems easiest if it is date based - all videos older than a certain year would presumably be allowed. I also note that there are about 2650 hits in the official AFL website for "Mark of the Year" on Google, some of which are videos, which might be helpful. See here Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 22:42, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

I don't believe the official site stores video clips, other than within the official Mark of the Year portal - that only shows the latest winners. I also couldn't tell you which videos fall into which categories. I guess the only way to find out, is to remove any Youtube deadlinks (which would mean that the video was removed due to copyright infringement.) YT, like wikipedia is created on user-generated content, so it would be extremely difficult to determine each and every video's copyright status. --Flewis^(talk) 11:23, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

I am not a copyright expert. If you want, we can try to get an expert opinion by asking somewhere. I do not know anything about Australian copyright, but what you said about expired copyright made me think that if it were a 10 or 20 year limit, then those video clips would be easiest to identify. Similarly if the official AFL website (or the original television broadcaster's website - the ABC?) have a clip, then that is OK to link to. Unlike criminal trials (innocent until proven guilty), I think the standard here must be assume videos on YouTube are a copyright violation unless you can prove otherwise. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 13:27, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Afl.com.au and the respective Australian broadcasters don't have the videos listed within their sites. So, should I remove the links, or keep them? - or would you rather have an expert review the situation? It's your call. --Flewis^(talk) 13:59, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

I would prefer to ask an expert since I know nothing about Australian copyright law. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 15:51, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

• There are five fair use images in the article. While I am not sure if this number is excessive per WP:NFCC (it is down from 9 when I reviewed it), the images in all cases need, but do not have {{Non-free use rationale}} templates. This must be done or the images can be deleted.
• If you need an example, see the rationale at Image:PriestleyStamp.jpg Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 22:42, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
• Image:LloydMark 246.jpg and Image:Moorcroft - 2001 mark.jpg and Image:SvNEWTON.jpg all need a Fair Use Rationale still.
  • Done --Flewis^(talk) 13:50, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Hope this helps, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 14:41, 25 November 2008 (UTC) Video Clips - how to best reference the video clips is under discussion. Until that discussion is resolved this article should not be promoted. However, it should not be failed either as long as discussion is happening. This is a case where the "standard" way of doing things creates an unnecessarily long list.

I have asked for advice on the copyright status of these clips here. If they are copyvio, they can not be in the article. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 05:17, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

I don't think we are talking about the same clips. It's my understanding that linked-to material can be copyrighted and does not have to be fair-use, it only has to be relevant. Since this is a list class article, each row in the list can have things in it, including photo- or video-links, related to that year's Mark. If this were only article about the award itself, then at most 1 or 2 such links would be appropriate. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 19:22, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

While I agree there is no restriction on linking to copyrighted material, there is a prohibition against linking to material that is on the web as a copyright violation. Please see Yobmod's comment and mine above. I have asked others better versed in copyright issues than I to weigh in here, let's see what they say. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 01:20, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

I heard from User:Ealdgyth on this. Please see under WP:C, specifically WP:LINKVIO, where the relevant text is ... if you know that an external Web site is carrying a work in violation of the creator's copyright, do not link to that copy of the work. Knowingly and intentionally directing others to a site that violates copyright has been considered a form of contributory infringement in the United States (Intellectual Reserve v. Utah Lighthouse Ministry [1]). Linking to a page that illegally distributes someone else's work sheds a bad light on Wikipedia and its editors. ... I see no indication that the copyright holders (AFL and/or broadcasters) posted these videos. Unless there is some clear Australian law that copyright on videos expires after a certain number of years that would affect the videos linked in this article, all of the links to YouTube should go. If the AFL or broadcasters have links to the Marks, then they could be linked. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 00:08, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Done - After much discussion I've went ahead and removed all the Youtube video links [60]. It's evident that the majority of them have an unclear copyright status (On a side note Goal of the Year (Australia) has a similar problem), and would therefore risk violating WP:LINKVIO. Some videos previously linked within the article have been removed as copyvios by youtube, and the remainder are still undiscovered by the copyright holders. Despite my personal opinions, I have no doubt, that the prospective reader won't have trouble finding footage of the marks via a simple google search. It is likely that this issue would've gone back and forth for quite some time, with the videos eventually being removed. This has just saved everyone the trouble of unnecessary hyperbole over the only real solution. --Flewis^(talk) 00:51, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I have changed from Comments to Support. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 01:26, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Support I made quite a few copy-edits. I think the list is ready for FL status. Dabomb87 (talk) 16:09, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Support all of my concerns have been addressed. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 01:26, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Comment There are two red-links in the transcluded template at the bottom. If anyone here knows enough about the subjects, please create stubs for Dreamtime at the 'G and VFL/AFL Captains. Newly-minted FL articles look so much better when they don't have any redlinks.

Done - See here and here --Flewis^(talk) 04:53, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.