User talk:Sitush

... or panic madly and freak out?

Have you come here to rant at me? It's water off a duck's back.

ANI-notice

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.

February 2014

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• Democratic Front''' also known as '''AIUDF''' and ''Sarba Bharatiya Sanyukta Ganatantric Marcha'') is a state political party oroginating from the Indian state of [[Assam]], [[India]]. It was

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• won the presidential election in a highly one-sided contest. He became the 11th president of the [epublic of India.<ref>{{cite news|title=Kalam is 11th President in 12th term |url=http://articles.

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• populations of the Indian subcontinent however were problematic to classify under this scheme.{cn}} They were assumed to be a mixture of "Dravidian race", tentatively with an "[[Australoid race|

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DYK for Cristian Raducanu

Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 16:03, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

Kachwaha

Hi Sitush! I have a message for you at Talk:Kachwaha. Waiting for your response. -Owsert (talk) 14:34, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Kumar

Hi Sitush! As you are my main go-to person on India-related topics, I'm wondering if the Kumar article telling the whole story? A coworker from India once told me something to the effect that Kumar is never a real last name, but rather (as the article mentions) more of a title or middle name. Is that simply a regional prejudice? I'm surprised that the Kumar article doesn't go into greater detail into what is a commonly heard name/title. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 16:25, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure but my bet is that it is complex! Patel, which is another common name, is used both to reference a caste group (see Patidar) and as a generic last name that has titular overtones relating to landholding. India is a big place, has 20-odd official languages and numerous different traditions. Not to mention a phenomenal (to western eyes) degree of antagonism and vanity. Thus, for example, in south India, caste-designating last names are used relatively infrequently even though (allegedly) an awful lot of people possess one - they don't publicise the thing because of historic prejudices. At or near the opposite extreme, are the Sikhs, who are not a caste, are predominantly in northern areas and for whom Singh is a badge of honour.

We have a surname project somewhere and of course there is WT:INB. I'd be inclined to query both or to raise the issue at Talk:Kumar and stick a notice on both project boards that refers to the discussion. It's not something I'm likely to get very involved in because, tbh, when ever I've looked at articles about names I've always tended to come away with the impression that the sourcing really isn't up to much at all. - Sitush (talk) 17:04, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I've noticed that general sourcing problem as well when it comes to articles about India, as well as the complexity issue. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 17:51, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Note

I appreciate your recognition that Carol is the most disruptive active editor on the LvMI pages. I know you've criticized my conduct on the past. I want to tell you that I'm willing to accept a topic ban if we kick out Carol and the other tedentious editors. I agree that my controversial status undermines the ability of other editors to get things done in a dispassionate way. I also recognize that I've gone too far at times on the Mises pages, both in terms of edits and conduct toward other users. But the root cause of this is the tendentious attempt by Carol and others to promote a false image of Misesians on WP: as respected, mainstream contributors and even leaders in the field of economics. Steeletrap (talk) 20:28, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Changes reverted

I see few contibutuons made by me on Pratibha Patil are undone. Couldnot understand more from the edit summary which says "trivial, as the secretariat response implies". Correct me if am wrong on why they were undone . (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:10, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

You are referring to this removal. As previously discussed by others on the article talk page, Presidents visit places. That's what they do, and especially so when they are basically figureheads rather than executive officers, as is the case in India. There is a lot of muckraking in Indian politics but Wikipedia is not the place to continue it. - Sitush (talk) 11:17, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Pick one

Heer clan and Hayer. Why?--Bbb23 (talk) 01:57, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

@Bbb23:, Resolved by redirecting to Heer clan. The only sources were unreliable and using a completely unscientific GSearch, "Heer punjab" gets over 10 times more hits than "Hayer punjab". Most of the hits relate to the things as surnames rather than as a gotra. I'll try to find some decent sources but almost certainly this is going to end up being PRODed as yet another non-notable family name. - Sitush (talk) 11:12, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Maybe I'd understand if I took the time, but I trust your judgment, so will spend my time otherwise. Thanks.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:01, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Ah, the mysteries of the Orient (almost!). - Sitush (talk) 01:09, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Behlot - Gurjar tribe

Hi Sitush. Can you please take a look at Behlot article. -- SMS ^Talk 20:54, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Will do but probably not for another 24 hours. That Behlot/Pehlot name was added as a redlink to List of Gurjar clans or some such recently. I reverted then per WP:V and WP:NLIST but I'll take another look at it. - Sitush (talk) 00:20, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Re: This draft needs Review

Namaste, Sitush. You have got at least one new message at the Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics. Please continue the discussion there!
Message added by Tito☸Dutta 00:07, 21 February 2014 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time.

• Actually I fixed that first and then saw the INB post. My signature is so complicated, I have to use 1= always. Tito☸Dutta 00:13, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, I actually thought it was your sig that was throwing my comment out but the problem still arose when I temporarily voided your comment. I had tried the "1=" even though the documentation makes no mention of it - it didn't work for me, even when I tried putting my comment above yours. All very odd but as long as it shows up now, that's all that matters. Thanks for fixing! - Sitush (talk) 00:18, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

‎Rajpurohit

You're welcome. Perhaps you saw that the sockmaster's block has been extended to indefinite. Nyttend (talk) 01:06, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

hound

I'm not going to derail that AfD but following up here. I consider your continued bringing up past AfDs as hounding. Sure I have been wrong (or on the wrong side of an AfD). So have you. Many times. We all have. It just means we have differences of opinion. That's all notability is, opinion, there is no absolute right and wrong. Your bringing up old AfDs continually as a strategy to try and discredit me is out of line. I have been on the right side and "won" AfDs as well, this is easily seen in the AfD stats. If it continues, and I'll let it continue to build up the record further, I will eventually take action. I have a thick skin but will only let it go so far. Can't say when that will be. I can't stop you from participating in AfDs I already posted in but I can stop you from this line of attack. Oh and "serious charge" is in the context of our notability rules obviously, the topic of this AfD discussion, not the real world legal system - telling me to "sue you", an anonymous person in unknown country, is ridiculous and cliche not to mention bad faith. Regards, -- GreenC 07:12, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

@Green Cardamom:, you've accused people of hounding of hounding and have supported others among the downtrodden who had claimed to have been hounded. You were shown to be ridiculous then and you are now. But all I see in you when you do those things is a clue-less wikilawyer. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. - Sitush (talk) 07:16, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Your response to my request to stop that behavior was not to say, ok, sure I'll stop that behavior if it bothers you. Lets diffuse this situation. Rather it was a string of personal attacks and a rude statement akin to a fuck you. How old are you if I can ask? -- GreenC 07:46, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

You don't like what I say, then don't make stupid allegations. Our paths barely ever cross AFAIK so how the hell I can be hounding you is beyond me. I'm presuming that you must be somewhat younger than my 51 years; if not, then you definitely need to grow up. - Sitush (talk) 07:51, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

And why did you do this in response to my explanation for commenting out here? You were bold in inserting that break but it guided the unwitting past a whole chuck of relevant source anaylsis from several people, so I commented out. I don't mind you fixing the commenting markup but replacing with a {{anchor}} that effectively reinstates your poor decision is, well, bloody annoying. It seems that you'll go to any length to persuade people of your take. - Sitush (talk) 08:00, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

AfC draft

Hello there, thank you for showing interest to review this draft. I agree to what you commented at the top of the draft. To improve the draft, I have added more references, and this time I have introduced sources from books of a reputed local library in Kolkata. By the way you had caught a good point about Early Nationalists and early nationalist; Moderates and moderates. Actually it is a problem that has its roots deep into Our Indian history. During the time of our Independence the Indian historians described the first leaders as the "Moderates" for example an Indian author V. D. Mahajan described them as Moderates. But some of the prominent British individuals denoted them as moderates. example-Stanley A. Wolpert. Even now in a column of The Daily Telegraph on 23rd september author-Debasis Majumdar described them "Moderates". So I think we should create redirects after it was reviewed and moved to mainspace.

Have a look on the draft now, I have made some changes, please fix the possible problems you have mentioned in the comment followed by a review. Thank you in advance. Jim Cartar (talk) 11:31, 21 February 2014 (UTC).

Will do but I'm getting behind on my promises, so it may be a few days before I get round to it. - Sitush (talk) 11:23, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

No problem, take your time. But please don't forget about it. Jim Cartar (talk) 21:18, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

SPI

See Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Garminder13. I'm also minded to take Devgan (Clan) to AfD - or do you think this deserves an article? Dougweller (talk) 10:41, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. I spent most of the day up a 70-foot tree with a chainsaw & didn't have time to drag a sock's name from the depths of my dodgy memory. I've CSD G5'd the Devgan article - at best, it is just another non-notable clan. - Sitush (talk) 11:22, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Cristian Raducanu

Hello! Do you think it makes any logical sense to exclude that player from the Romanian rugby union players category, since almost all of them are also in the Romania international rugby union players category? It really seems repetitive but before they were international players they are Romanian players. This is whats been done in all rugby union players categories in Wikipedia, to include the players in both categories when they exist. In some cases there isnt a category for international players. See for yourself: [[1]]. Maybe both categories could be merged into one, because according with Wikipedia on overcategorization: "Mostly overlapping categories/If two or more categories have a large overlap (e.g. because many athletes participate in multiple all-star games, and religious leadership does not radically change from year to year), it is generally better to merge the subjects to a single category, and create lists to detail the multiple instances." Mistico (talk) 03:40, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

(edit conflict) WP:Overcategorisation. That people are ignoring the guideline elsewhere is not a reason to ignore it here. You could always try to change the guideline but the only common-sense reason that I can see for ignoring it in this sphere would be if a player was of nationality A but played for nation B (eg: a Romanian player who represents France) as does sometimes happen due to the rules regarding parentage etc. Maybe one day I'll get round to fixing the other articles, now that you've highlighted the problem. - Sitush (talk) 03:50, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

If you want to propose a merge of the categories then WP:CFD is the place to go. - Sitush (talk) 03:51, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Paramara

Hi there, Just wanted to let you know I started a bit of a discussion over at Talk: Paramara. If you have a moment, I'd be interested to hear your opinion about how the article should be and the best way to get there. I am wondering if some aspects of a non finished article (with respect to its references, for example) might be a reasonable short term compromise, in order to make life easier for a copy editor who is trying to improve the article. Perhaps there is a simple mechanism for doing this at Wikipaedia that I am missing? I know people keep adding what seems like junk but I think they are trying to do so in good faith. Rest assured I won't start an edit war and I'll try to improve the references for any new paragraphs or sections. Cheers, and thanks for keeping an interest in the article, Myrtle G. Myrtlegroggins (talk) 05:27, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Sure, I'll respond there. - Sitush (talk) 05:29, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Vani

And could I know the reason according to whom the sources are not reliable?Nijgoykar (talk) 07:27, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

I've explained already at the article talk page. - Sitush (talk) 07:28, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Brahmin

Editing Kerala brahmin section regarding:

I am a native or Kerala and I am so sure about the subject. Presently, the caste system is not so strong in Kerala as it existed earlier. So almost all the references that you could obtain will be old. In fact, they are the true references as they were written in the time of Caste System. You may please make a study with available resources you have, before going for such deletions. Actually what happens by your deletion is that you are giving an incomplete or false information to the readers. -Prasanthnnamboothiri (talk) 14:11, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Anyway, I have added citation needed tags over that. Let us put it as a matter of discussion in the talk page. -Prasanthnnamboothiri (talk) 14:13, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Please comment on changes to the AfC mailing list

Hello Sitush! There is a discussion that your input is requested on! I look forward to your comments, thoughts, opinions, criticisms, and questions!

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Mediation

You had requested to be pinged if there were any developments in the mediation. I think we could resume now. Would you be able to take a look? Sunray (talk) 20:14, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Please disregard my previous message. The anon IP that was party to the dispute has been blocked. [2] I will close the mediation. Thank you for your participation. Sunray (talk) 18:15, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

Do not revert it back

Hello, I'm Nijgoykar. I wanted to let you know that I undid one or more of your recent contributions because it did not appear constructive. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks! I would also request you to read Wikipedia:Citing sources. Nijgoykar (talk)

I had raised my concerns on the article talk page and also referred you to WP:BRD and to a thread that I started at WT:INB. You are edit warring, have probably breached WP:3RR and you need to self-revert. - Sitush (talk) 13:22, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

• Also, WP:Don't template the regulars. Good to see you're attracting the same negative attention as always, Sitush! Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 13:43, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Vengeance

I see you are going over every edit i made and reverting it citing any possible Wikipedia rule you can and you are doing it after i opposed your proposal to delete Phaphra. I call it an example of perfect vengeance, i did not know you people were running Wikipedia like that. I also found the reason behind your over 119,000 edits. You go and start reverting all the edits made by another editor if that editor opposes you once. Good tactic to raise the edit numbers. Bravo to you. I hope Wikipedia soon introduces a barnstar for vengeance and i will surely award you one. Thanks for discouraging me and pushing me back. Sajjad Altaf (talk) 20:56, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

• I've begun a thread regarding this at the ANI [3]. Cheers, JNW (talk) 21:53, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

This guy just believes he owns this site

Trueblood (talk) 04:33, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

I don't think it is the entire site but Sajjad certainly seems to have a lot invested in the village article that is mentioned in the ANI thread. - Sitush (talk) 12:26, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Sudhan

I would like to know whey you deleted the whole article, rather than having questions about indibidual issues, if you have issues why not just discuss the same on the talk page prior to doing your edits

Trueblood (talk) 04:32, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

@Trueblood786:, you'll notice that it was not just me who had done that thing. @Smsarmad: also removed a lot of the content. I think that you need to revisit WP:V, WP:RS and WP:BURDEN. Perhaps also WP:COI, since your contribution history and repeated recreation of poor material there suggests that you may have a conflict. It is your responsibility to ensure that the content is compliant with our policies, not mine or that of Smsarmad. - Sitush (talk) 12:16, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

I checked and found that other editor only took out a couple of lines, you took out the whole article, I will appreciate if you would tell me what exactly you think is a proper source as you dont agree on any of the sources that were listed by many editors. So I would request that in order to make this article better, that we work on this togeather and make it better, rather than getting rid of the whole thing.

For example what is wrong with a picture of a sudhan, or that they are all over the world, I think many sudhans worked on this article and I would defer to them, I was in Kashmir and that is where I learned a lot about Sudhans. So I would like to request your assistance in getting this better, rather than destroying it.

Looking forward to your reply.

Trueblood (talk) 01:45, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Can you take this to the article talk page, please. More people with an interest in the subject matter are likely to see it there. However, for what it is worth, the image was not originally removed by me. - Sitush (talk) 01:47, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

ANI notice dated 27 Feb 2014

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.

Sudhan

• As you are going to ANI, please check this section too, Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Dispute_at_V._S._Naipaul (last part, Subhas Bose galleries section) and please tell me your opinion. + I have shortened header of this section Tito☸Dutta 05:17, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
• Sitush, I think you need to add User:Bishonen/Clueless complaints about Sitush noticeboard to your edit notice. No one cares about a dog--that is, no one who visits your talk page. Drmies (talk) 05:42, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

• Sounds good. I'll try to figure it out. - Sitush (talk) 12:24, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Arbitrary heading: Nair

The article on Nairs is full of incorrect information. As for the List of Nairs, I don't need citations, because I know some of them in person. Thanks to people like you, wikipedia is full of nonsense. Anyways, I have better things to do. You seem to be an expert on Nairs (sarcasm intended). So keep editing away, Sitush. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arcchandran (talk • contribs) 07:19, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Ok, will do. - Sitush (talk) 12:24, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

A couple of years ago, an editor at the Dutch Wikipedia wrote that he didn't need sources, because he was enlightened and therefor knew best. Another editor replied that being enlightened is irrelevant at Wikipedia, only WP:RS are. Best regards, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 15:36, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

I've no idea what policies apply at the Dutch WP but here we have WP:OR. In many ways I'm afraid that we are reflecting systemic bias: much knowledge about India remains in the form of oral history and as such we cannot use it. What people such as Arcchandran sometimes fail to grasp is that I find this as frustrating as they do. - Sitush (talk) 15:43, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

• I have a long time wish to move all these articles to, for example, List of Nairs to List of notable Nairs. Jist List of Nairs is confusing. But, as you can understand it'll need very large number of RMs, so I have not started it. Tito☸Dutta 15:52, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

• I don't think changing the titles of such lists is going to stop people from adding non-notable people. Inline notices and frequent reverts with edit summaries certainly do not, and unless there is some useful purpose I'd be inclined to leave the title alone. - Sitush (talk) 16:00, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Arbitrary Revisions

Hi Sitush ! While I appreciate your concern over the Wikipedia edits, I wonder if your overzealous and arbitrary actions are helping Wikipedia. On specific changes you made to Khandelwal page, I believe you've flouted several norms and guidelines. You've also laid waste the sincere and diligent contributions of many Wikipedia editors. WP:COI in a nutshell says "Do not edit Wikipedia in your own interests or in the interests of your external relationships." There isn't any conflict of interest as it's not an article for the interest of a particular individual / concern. It's about a major community in India. All the content has been appropriately cited and referenced. If you believe someone with knowledge of a topic writing about is bad then you wouldn't have Wikipedia in the first place. From the other posts on your talk page, I have significant concern that you're probably acting in bad faith. I am reverting the changes. If you still have concerns, first talk and then make changes. --Adroit09 (talk) 17:20, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Instead of making ludicrous accusations, why not actually read what I said on your talk page? - Sitush (talk) 17:34, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

I still believe it would be beneficial for everyone if one could talk to the relevant person before making significant reverts especially when reasons for changes have been provided.

For your reference

Merge discussion for Khandelwal Vaishya

An article that you have been involved in editing, Khandelwal Vaishya, has been proposed for a merge with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going here, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Adroit09 (talk) 19:30, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

--Adroit09 (talk) 19:30, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Women's History Month: Come join us!

We need you!

Hi Sitush! 8th March is International Women's Day and to celebrate, women in India are organizing edit-a-thons and meetups to create and expand articles of importance to women in Wikipedia in English and various Indian languages. The goal of the month-long event is to encourage more women to contribute to Wikipedia and increase representation of articles related to women in Wikipedia. The event aims at creating new articles, expanding the existing stubs and translating English articles to various Indic languages. Read more about the event on our project page: Women's History Month (India), 2014. Get involved by: Signing up for the event and writing articles about notable Indian women Conducting an edit-a-thon or a workshop for women Participate at and "like" our Facebook group Reading and writing for our global blog channel We look forward to your contributions. Thank you! -- Netha (talk) 19:06, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject Articles for creation March 2014 Backlog Elimination Drive

Hello Sitush:

WikiProject AFC is holding a month long Backlog Elimination Drive!
The goal of this drive is to eliminate the backlog of unreviewed articles. The drive is running from March 1, 2014 to March 31, 2014.

Awards will be given out for all reviewers participating in the drive in the form of barnstars at the end of the drive.
There is a backlog of over 1000 articles, so start reviewing articles! Visit the drive's page and help out!

A new version of our AfC helper script has been released! It includes many bug fixes, new improvements and features, code enhancements, and more. If you want to see a full list of changes, visit the changelog. Please report bugs and feature requests there, too! Thanks.
Posted by Northamerica1000 (talk) on 02:12, 28 February 2014 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk), on behalf of WikiProject Articles for creation

Dulla Bhatti

Thank you for your recent sources and edits, "near to Lahore" needs to come off too, does not make sense. Does not define proximity and i do not think it makes a good English sentence but i leave that to you since i do not think i am an expert on English language. Sajjad Altaf (talk) 02:59, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

How far is Pindi Bhattian from Lahore? When it comes to towns and villages, it often helps readers to have a commonly-recognised place as a marker. Is there a major city that is closer? - Sitush (talk) 03:01, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Forget that - I've worked it out. Page 34 of Gaur says 12 kos. According to Kos (unit) that equates to 24 miles (39 km). - Sitush (talk) 03:07, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

WT INB RFC

Please post your opinion at this WT:INB RFC: Wikipedia_talk:Noticeboard_for_India-related_topics#RFC:_Inviting_Quiddity_.28WMF.29_or_Okeyes_.28WMF.29_to_implement_Flow_at_WikiProject_India_Noticeboard Tito☸Dutta 12:59, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Edit war with user Kakadesi

Your recent editing history at Pratibha Patil and Kapil Sibal shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.

To avoid being blocked, instead of reverting please consider using the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. See BRD for how this is done. You can post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection. --KakaDesi 13:17, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

@Kakadesi:, please file a report at User:Bishonen/Clueless complaints about Sitush noticeboard ;) - Sitush (talk) 13:20, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Sudhan

ANI discussion about Trueblood. Dougweller (talk) 21:54, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

I see that the fun is over. Is that my third or fourth haul-up to ANI this week? - Sitush (talk) 00:13, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

March 2014

Hello, I'm User:Premthanjavur. The edits made by me in the Pallava dynasty were sourced reliably. And I referred both Inscriptions and Book references which are accepted as strong references by the historians. Because the stone inscriptions are from the book South Indian Inscriptions vol 12 which was widely recognized for South Indian History. And the book 'Ancient to Medieval: South Indian Society in Transition' is written by Noboru Karashima, who was conferred the Padma Shri award in 2013, one of India's highest civilian award, for his contribution in the field of History. And also Nominated for the Padma Bushan award 2014. So do not Underestimate his contributions. And also do not have an biased view /opinion on editing History related articles. So I conclude that the references provide by me in 'Kadava' Section is most reliable and am also edited the 'Kadava' Section again with same references. For further discussions you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. — Preceding undated comment added 06:32, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Reply to your query to me

Dear Sitush:

I just received your email and am having trouble trying to understand what you want me to comment on. Is it the reference that "Abstruce" makes to me saying that: "Kindly note that this very book has been deemed as "unreliable and misleading work" by User:John Hill,. . . ."?

I presume this is in reference to the book: Origins and History of Jats and Other Allied Nomadic Tribes of India: 900 B.C.-1947 A.D |first=B. S. |last=Nijjar |publisher=Atlantic Publishers |year=2008.

If so, this is probably correct - I very likely would have made such a comment about this book - but I would have said it so long ago I cannot remember in what context or even in which article it appeared. I am sorry I cannot be more specific than this.

If you would like some idea of why I might have said that the book was a "misleading and unreliable work" - just have a look at the pages available on Google Books. For example, the reference given here is to: url=http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=xQM9voN21ekC&pg=PA73

Checking this single page I note that there is a generalisation about Jats that sounds rather defamatory or at the very least biased: "The Jats, moreover, are extremely proud and consider themselves not only the owners of the land but of the village itself. Fear and hatred of the Jats is, therefore, justified to a certain extent, and the Jats enjoy and profit from the fear they evoke in others."

If I remember correctly (and please keep in mind it is some years since I read this book), there were numerous such generalisations scattered throughout the work - thus making it an unreliable reference.

I hope this answers your question - if not please write again and clarify exactly what you want.

Best wishes,

Sincerely,

John Hill (talk) 11:38, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

It wasn't an email but rather a query on your talk page. I've responded to you there, as is convention. Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 12:30, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

2nd reply

Nijjar may be an "academic historian" and he is entitled to his opinions. But, if his book is to be considered a reputable source of history he should qualify his comments. E.g. he could have said: "Many (instead of "the" = "all") Jats, moreover, are extremely proud and consider themselves not only the owners of the land but of the village itself. Fear and hatred of the Jats is, therefore, justified to a certain extent, and some (rather than "the") Jats enjoy and profit from the fear they evoke in others."

He is running down and tarring all Jats as being the same, and while what he says may be true of some Jats - it is clearly not so for all of them. It is akin to saying: "The Germans are (all) Nazis and terrorise Jews," or "Australians are (all) racists." That is why I believe his book is a biased, unreliable and misleading work, and not worthy of being accepted as a reference in the Wikipedia. Sincerely, John Hill (talk) 13:20, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

I've no idea why you keep posting your replies here. In any event, you cannot read his mind and therefore you have to accept that what he says is what he means, like it or loathe it. I'm still unsure whether it is a reliable source but your rationales won't hold up. Unless your argument is that he is a fringe/pseudo-historian, in which case we could do with some examples of peers who say this. I'll try to find out how often his works have been cited etc. - Sitush (talk) 15:11, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Quick chat request

If you are online now and have some time in hand could you attend a quick talk session (at Google Docs, the way we talked last time).

• Topic: Talk on a new off wiki but wiki related initiative.
• Talk line: Quick demo to you. Asking for suggestions where I am stumped.

You may join here if you are online now or in next one hour. I'll keep on checking the open document. Tito☸Dutta 13:38, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, I missed this and I've got to go away again for a bit. - Sitush (talk) 15:12, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

• Okay, no problem. I am going for dinner for an hour as well. If you give me an appointment that'll be fine, else we may talk later. Tito☸Dutta 15:14, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Hill and Fowler

Dear Friend Sitush, I have replied here (as I thought John Hill might also be interested). Sincerely, ← Abstruce 06:32, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Article Bhati

Respected Sir Please dont take it otherwise. I really respect you for your wiki contributions. Still, if u permit then may i ask the reason for removal of contents on the article just because of yadava word. where as other caste related words like Jat, Gurjar etc. are present there. One more thing I would like to add what i have seen with my own eyes... The fort of Jaisalmer and all text related to Bhatis, the word Yadava is present there. Indian History too have such mentions everywhere. Sorry,I am not questioning you, just curious to know if there is any specific reason. Actually, I see all the caste related pages and in case of almost every caste i find that Indian Social history is misrepresented at most of the places. Your response in this regard will certainly be a matter of emmense pleasure for me. Regards and wishes Mahensingha (talk) 19:35, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

I've been trying to read up on the Bhati but it gets very confusing due to ambiguities with Bahti etc. The sources that you added were also confusing. I've little doubt that Jaisalmer was controlled by a family known as Bhati but your sources were vague, as is typical for the name: one of them even referred to the family as Yadav Bhati Rajputs, which makes things even more confusing because Yadavs are a different group again and, IIRC, are not considered to be Rajput. And Yadava is treated as different from Yadav in many sources, so there is yet another problem.

The whole thing is an unfortunate mess &, as you say, it also apparently involves Jats and Gurjars. It is no-one's fault that this is so but quite how we resolve it is beyond me at the moment. It is likely to need some intensive research of the type that for which I've simply not been able to find time. Any suggestions would be welcome but they'd probably be better given on the article talk page. - Sitush (talk) 21:48, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Articles of dubious merit

Hello. I believe you remember a "pre-Afd discussion for the deletion of Tamil American, Tamil Australian, Kannada American & Bengali American" wiki pages. Since there wasn't any response, shall i raise this issue in the WT:INB noticeboard or would it better if I report them for deletion right away? I'm hereby summarizing the reasons for the proposed deletion, in case you don't remember.
Neither of these countries (United States & Australia) have used these terminologies for "census, immigration & other govt" purposes nor have their media used them in their articles & reports. These people have always been called/listed/reported as "Indian American/Australian" or "Sri Lankan American/Australian" based on their country of origin. The sources cited in these articles "have not mentioned them as official terms", but they simply contain some statistical data regarding the number of tamil speakers. I'm sure this factor doesn't qualify for the creation of these articles in wikipedia. Hari7478 (talk) 20:38, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

I'd be inclined to take them to AfD but there is no harm in sounding INB out first. Government classifications (census etc) don't really count for much either for or against: the key is whether or not there is discussion about these various groups in reliable sources. There probably are community websites (like the APNA organisation) but those also do not really count. - Sitush (talk) 21:40, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Maram nawaz

There is a dispute concerning sourced material, SMS editor keeps on reverting, can u look into this

Adnan1216 (talk) 22:53, 2 March 2014 (UTC)