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Muthuraja

@Sitush:  

The information, which is given in the Muthuraja article is incorrect

The Muthuraja is not a fully Tamil caste and it has Telugu Muthuraja also included

Book Name: Barriers broken: production relations and agrarian change in Tamil Nadu Page:No :25

The Muthurajas are descendants of the soldiers which the poligars recruited in their homeland, the Telugu-speaking areas of contemporary Andhra Pradesh, north of Tamil Nadu Like other castes originating from Andhra, they are bilingual, often speaking Telugu in family circles and Tamil outside the house "

Book Name : Kattavarayan Katai Page:No :19

" Among the Telugu castes that came to Tamilnadu were the Muthurajas or Mutrāchas"

(Backward Classes Welfare Department G.O.Ms.No :15.) Mutharaiyar caste have 29 subcaste in tamilnadu such as Muthuraja Naidu(Telugu) & Muthuraju(Telugu)

Concerning the Mutrāchas,(present-day Muthuraja) Mr. H. A. Stuart writes as follows. This is a Telugu caste most numerous in the North Arcot districts ( North Arcot district was divided into Vellore District and Tiruvannamalai District)

South Arcot district MUTHRACHA(present-day Muthuraja) reported as Telugu caste name in 1881 census ( South Arcot district: present-day districts of Cuddalore, Kallakurichi and Viluppuram)

The Telugu Speaking Muthuraja community is mostly distributed in the chennai , Thiruvallur , Vellore, Tiruvannamalai and Cuddalore districts of Tamil Nadu

you can see tamil wikipedia Muthuraja Article -The Muthuraja is not a fully Tamil caste and it has Telugu Muthuraja also included

@Sitush: Please add correct information brother

References

Firstly, this is not the place to discuss the article. Secondly, your edits were clearly poor. You included copyright violations, misrepresentation etc, and have been indulging in both POV-pushing and inappropriate searching, resulting in confirmation bias. It will not do, sorry. - Sitush (talk) 08:17, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

That's what I mean caste system was mostly practice as brahmin non-Brahmin( kamma;balija and reddy) and dalit in south rather than the four fold caste system hopefully I was able to make u underatand ma point. Rimeg (talk) 09:35, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

protected

Hey Sitush. I semi-protected your talk page for a day - I noticed a bunch of stupidity on it recently. If you'd rather I undo it, let me know. Best always. — Ched (talk) 11:34, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, Ched. But beware of saying stupidity. - Sitush (talk) 11:55, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

It'll be OK if you rebrand it as WikiStupidity and surface it with varnish. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 12:01, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

lol - cheers and best to you both. — Ched (talk) 12:05, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Just in case...

...you were wondering, this was what the opening text on those new talk page sections said. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 14:35, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. I did wonder. Quite pleasant compared to a lot of the non-English I have had directed at me today, here and elsewhere. I tried to check using Google Translate but I think I may have missed a character in the script as it returned nonsense.

Should I wait for the inevitable block appeal before reverting? I know I am on solid ground with the edits I made to the article - nothing done that should have been controversial (except, bizarrely, it was). - Sitush (talk) 14:39, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Google tranlsate won't do it, for some reason - I found it just by searching for the phrase. And yes, I think you are fine to revert now - you've explained your reasons, and you've had no rational objections raised in discussion. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 15:18, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Oh, and we have an article about it, Basmala. Maybe the reason Google Translate can't manage it is that "In Unicode, the Basmala is encoded as one ligature..." Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 10:22, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

I thought it was something to do with "Bohemian Rhapsody". - Sitush (talk) 10:27, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

:-) Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 10:28, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

WP:GS/CASTE

If you ever need/want to drop General Sanctions notices on problematic caste warriors, let me know. Primefac (talk) 13:03, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. I tend now to use the broader DS/IPA alert, which anyone can apply. But subsequent enforcement needs an admin and I suspect Bishonen will be grateful if you and others are willing to share that load! - Sitush (talk) 13:07, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Hello again Sitush

wow - twice in 2 days I've posted here. People will begin to talk .. lol. Anyway - I don't know if you're familiar with the Amaravati article or not - just that I do recall that you are pretty well informed about so much in that part of the world. A user posted on my talk[1] about the sources and edit warring and such - if you have time and would be willing to look I'd appreciate it. Any advice would be appreciated. Hope all is well with you and yours, .. Cheers and best. — Ched (talk) 22:59, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Ched, no problem: I suspect people talk about me all the time, not necessarily in a positive sense! I see it ended up at AN3 here and then someone else weighed in at the article. It looks to me like a bit of political shenanigans and blowback from the Telangana movement of yore. Sharkslayer seems to have it more right, per sources, but Indian disputes involving Indian geography are common and mystifying to me (internal rivers and dams due to need to control water supply, disputed borders with Pakistan and China, mountain ranges, namings, allegedly corrupt developments ...). I'm just about to remove one source as a breach of our copyright policies but I think it may be a case of wait and see now - will Citeleadboat return to the fray? Btw, this edit summary is not what I would expect from somone on their seventh article edit. - Sitush (talk) 04:58, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Whts yr problem

Why r delete my information My correct information Pasword wiki (talk) 05:10, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

I gave a link on your talk page. The issue is WP:MIRROR, ie: you used a source that just copies its information from us. That creates a circular situation where we are effectively citing ourselves for what we say. - Sitush (talk) 05:23, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

history

Brother why you deleting history? Sultan shah Arsalan (talk) 11:44, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

I explained on your talk page - User talk:Sultan shah Arsalan. You cannot use random caste blogs nor other Wikipedia articles as sources because none of them are reliable and the latter is also circular. I haven't checked but I wonder if you also copy/pasted the material from that blog into our article; if so, you cannot do that either - see WP:COPYRIGHT. - Sitush (talk) 11:47, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Oh, and you also cannot copy stuff from one Wikipedia article to another without attributing it, ie: stating where you copied it from in your edit summary. - Sitush (talk) 11:48, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

The great sealion

Soft-spoken flannel jedi

Haha, I see you have already brought the sealion into your own discourse! It really is a useful word, isn't it? Bishonen | tålk 19:53, 11 July 2020 (UTC).

I will probably forget it within a week but, yes, it was a timely understanding. The word I did forget and have just recalled is flannel as a description of WMF-speak. - Sitush (talk) 20:46, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

I see you've got the flannel in now! Bishonen | tålk 11:52, 12 July 2020 (UTC).

Discombobulated next! - Sitush (talk) 12:39, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

The Joshua Project

Wow, that's some source. Click here to submit update! Click here for prayer cards! I have posted some advice for Wikieditor7799. Bishonen | tålk 15:07, 12 July 2020 (UTC).

Good advice for them, thanks. - Sitush (talk) 15:15, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Help

Dear sitush I had already contacted u for putting shudra under kapu caste but u didnot remove it rather added shudra on balija page even...i would like to discuss..or u dont want to discuss than also inform me so i dont wait for ur reply. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rimeg (talk • contribs) 08:24, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Replied at Talk:Kapu_(caste)#Shudra_status - I presume this is what you were referring to. - Sitush (talk) 08:42, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Yes sitush no action was taken by you my humble request is mention sat shudra( as it was stated by Englishmen) because shudra here means a degoratory term and these were ruling castes of south india.so even if u dont put kshatriya mention that sat shudra status was given ( in south and bengal especially). Rimeg (talk) 08:46, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

See WP:NOTCENSORED. - Sitush (talk) 08:48, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

I dont think iam able to make u understand ma point completely. Rimeg (talk) 08:51, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

I am struggling, yes. You seem to be suggesting that we should not refer to a varna status because it is is now derogatory. It may be but that is not a reason to ignore it, per the info at WP:NOTCENSORED. We also do not rely on sources from the Raj era, which I presume is what you mean by "Englishmen". Does this make any sense to you? - Sitush (talk) 08:55, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Yes i agree u dont refer to raj era....varna system( especially the word shudra) is degoratory becoz with no offence it was used for wokers while kamma balija and reddy were rulers . Rimeg (talk) 09:34, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Hm. But the problem is that modern reliable sources say that South India didn't have the classical four-fold varna system of brahmin, kshatriya, vaishya and shudra. People in the south were either brahmin or not, and if they were not then they were treated as being shudra. As far as I am aware, no-one has ever said the Reddys or Kammas were brahmin but some have said they were shudra. - Sitush (talk) 09:37, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

As south indian and even bengal was outside Aryans four fold caste system could never take place there completely. Rimeg (talk) 09:44, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Brahmins of south didnot give kshatriya status to any caste ( like it was given in north) and called everyone shudra so the ruling caste during British time was given sat-shudra status(although ruling caste didnot accept this too)except raju( who were given kshatriya status during Englishmen ) Rimeg (talk) 09:46, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

That may be so but you are effectively citing Raj sources to make that statement. And we do not use Raj sources. If modern sources say they were shudra, that is what they were. - Sitush (talk) 09:47, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Thus after British a new system arising in south india ( where brahmin so called shudra were divided in two parts ( sat shudra - reddy ;kamma;balija who were landowners money lenders adn shudra - some. Who worked on these landowners land and next was dalit) . Rimeg (talk) 09:48, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Modern source call them sat shudra Rimeg (talk) 09:48, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

I'll put the reference that's it still if u belive they r shudra i cant change ur mind Rimeg (talk) 09:49, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Dalit women by gk ghosh shukla ghosh Rimeg (talk) 09:51, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict) No, it's fine. If you have sources that call them sat shudra then add them. But if there are equally reliable sources that call them shudra, we will probably have to show both. That's how WP:NPOV works. But I'm pleased you're persevering with this - it must be frustrating when you come across someone who isn't understanding your point. - Sitush (talk) 09:52, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Caste and race by govind ghuriye Rimeg (talk) 09:53, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Actually i had to search a lot maself for these castes and everyone is not so patient and for some indians ( especially in north ) caste is very important thus i read a lot about it so I suggest u to make it complete so no one jumps to conclusion by reading a word Rimeg (talk) 09:54, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

I think I have the Ghurye book here somewhere. It's a bit old now (1960s, IIRC) but would do. - Sitush (talk) 09:55, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Page 17 fertility and familial relation:procreation in south india ( it says reddy and kamma are higher kulams than rest of kapu-refferinh to munru and turpu kapu). Rimeg (talk) 09:59, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Pg 414 literay culture in history South Asia( Kshatriya or their alike sat shudra).thats all information i can give plz do changes if u feel satisfied thank u. Rimeg (talk) 10:02, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

In the end what I meant was by putting shudra we r trying to defame some castes which acted as warrios so we should mention it completely that south indian caste system is different from north thats it . Rimeg (talk) 07:50, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Well, that bit certainly is not correct. Some Shudras were indeed warriors, and because of our NOTCENSORED stuff we are not defaming, merely stating what reliable sources say. - Sitush (talk) 07:55, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Agreed(nanda dynasty etc etc)but again I would like to make ma point it was not as clear as in South India because dravids bengal etc was outside aryan system.

Rimeg (talk) 09:06, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

And than becoz even some people were warriors their caste overall didnot change whereas when we talk about south ( kamma reddy balija etc) were the dominant castes holding lands having kings etc etc we cant give them kshatriya status (becoz it creates more comdusion like in case of rajput jats gujar)but we can state or mention it correctly ....thank u for taking out ur time for listening to me. Rimeg (talk) 09:08, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

WP:V requires WP:RS, and if there are reliable sources saying there were shudra in the south then there were shudra in the south, as far as we are concerned. Like it or not, we operate on what is verifiable, not necessarily what it is truth. There is nothing I can or would do about it. I feel like we are going round in circles here now. - Sitush (talk) 09:09, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

What about the sources i have given take time for it than . Rimeg (talk) 10:05, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Cambridge economic history of India pg 27 1982( if thats also not reliable what can i say thank u for listening but i just wanted to give information i have achieved .i might appear as a cast warrior but i felt it's important that's it .) Rimeg (talk) 14:32, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

The problem is WP:NPOV. We cannot outright say X is correct if some reliable sources say that Y is correct. WE have to show both in such circumstances. I don't think you're a "caste warrior", merely someone who is perhaps struggling to understand the sometimes arcane ways in which this place works. - Sitush (talk) 14:37, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Ok i understood now yes we can mention both (that will be better ) and u should edit and change it i guess thank u. Rimeg (talk) 16:05, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Hello sitush i would also like to mention Varna is not described in any North Indian castes so plz change in South Indian castes too (write in their origin). Rimeg (talk) 14:49, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Again, I do not understand, sorry. Varna is mentioned in hundreds of caste articles. We should avoid stating it in the lead section and infobox because there is consensus at WT:INB that it just leads to loads of problems as, quite often, what the caste members claim and what the sources say tends to differ. - Sitush (talk) 14:54, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

User: sitush if ur not busy i will be grateful if u edit those pages i have pit request from a long time. Rimeg (talk) 15:01, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

I will reply directly what iam saying-kapu page( sources show shudra for munru kapu and turpu kapu rather than all kamma reddy thus in etmyology u have included kamma reddy too it's creating confusion). Rimeg (talk) 15:02, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

On balija page u reverted the changes so in the end u put shudra which should be correctly written say shudra thats it. Rimeg (talk) 15:03, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Naidu surname was also used by kamma and other caste which u have removed thats it what iam saying. Rimeg (talk) 15:03, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

About Arora caste

I was asked to put more info from the oxford dictionary of family names which I did. But it was reverted back by you with a message "I have read that dictionary today - your additions are not in it". Please refer to the book again page number 1-xlv or Page number 47 of the PDF of book. I have taken the info about Arora clans from there. Also please tell me whether the book "H. A. Rose, A Glossary of Castes and Tribes of the Punjab and North-West Frontier Province" be used as a valid reference or not. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rickykalra (talk • contribs) 14:58, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

For the Rose issue, see User:Sitush/CasteSources. For the former issue, I do not know what you were looking at but I can assure you the the source is available from Oxford Reference online and I checked it using the facilities provided by The Wikipedia Library. I would be very surprised if that dictionary is available as a PDF.

Who was asking you to make those edits anyway? You've made quite a mess across a wide range of articles - I had to revert virtually everything you have done in the last 24 hours. - Sitush (talk) 15:02, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Nobody has asked me to do it. I did not make any absurd edits. All of them were according to the books from the Raj period which I wasn't aware that they can't be used as reference here. Rookie mistake. But I am pretty sure about the info about Arora clans taken from the book "The oxford dictionary of FAMILY NAMES IN BRITAIN AND IRELAND" by Patrick Hanks, Richard Coates and Peter McClure. I request you to scan this book for info once again. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rickykalra (talk • contribs) 15:24, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

I was asked to put more info from the oxford dictionary of family names which I did << that is what you said above. I have checked the dictionary again. In full, it says:

Indian: Hindu and Sikh, based on the name of a mercantile community of the Panjab, which is derived from the place-name Aror (now Rohri, in Sind, Pakistan). Further information: The Aroras are believed by some to be related to another prominent mercantile community of the Panjab, the Khatris.

But your edits were these. I'm not wasting any more time on this. I have no idea what you were looking at, nor whom you are editing on behalf of, but your statements seem clearly to be incorrect. - Sitush (talk) 16:44, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Yes. We are looking into the same book. The same book says the following: The name of a clan or some similar subgroup of the community to which the bearer belongs is used as a family name quite frequently. Here are some examples: Arora clan names: Ahuja, Batra, Chawla, Dua, Gulati, Khurana, Narang, and Sachdev. SEARCH THIS IN THE BOOK. And you reverted the edit saying "add a bit from the dictionary, remove unsourced claims" to which I said "I was asked to put more info from the oxford dictionary of family names which I did" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rickykalra (talk • contribs) 17:53, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

EB1911

It depends on what it is that you wish to have information on. In some cases EB1911 may be appropriate. However I am not at the moment adding any citations to articles. Instead I am working through a backlog of malformed citation to EB1911 articles on Wikisource. Replacing them with the custom template {{cite EB1911}}. If that highlights a problem for people like you to chase up a more modern source then that is an additional positive contribution. The citations are found using:

• insource:/en.wikisource.org\/wiki\/1911/

-- PBS (talk) 16:12, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

I wonder if Rowther is out of control?

As you know there is a very enthusiastic editor adding material to it hand over fist. But where are they getting it from? And where did they obtain their sudden apparent competence? The duck of a shared account is quacking at the moment for me, but that may be tinnitus Fiddle Faddle 17:37, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

I noticed they came back an hour or so ago. I decided to leave it until they have run out of steam, then go through and check it all. They do look a bit sus but I'm useless at spotting most socks. - Sitush (talk) 18:08, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

I see El C has stepped in. This partial block idea must have happened in my absence - not seen it before and not quite sure how it works, eg: surely it cannot automatically prevent them editing some other article that mentions the subject they are blocked from editing, or creating a POV fork etc? I will have to dig around. - Sitush (talk) 19:54, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) It should be more accurately called a page block: they're blocked from specified pages, but no technical restrictions on mentioning/discussing it elsewhere. That'd need a TBan I think. How's it going? ——Serial ^# 20:44, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Sitush, more on that at WP:PB. Anyway, all options are currently on the table. I admit that the likelihood of further disruption that may lead to further sanction seems to be on the higher end, but I still choose to be optimistic. El_C 21:00, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, all. Serial Number 54129 well, I live with a compromised immune system, a government that appears to be doing a healthcare version of the hokey-cokey and/or lying through its teeth, and two big operations needing general anaesthetic that are currently postponed. I let off steam by ranting at some in the old boy network but have neither heard anything nor spoken by voice with anyone since 14 March, let alone been outside. Otherwise I am tip-top, thanks - I think "still breathing" counts as quite a big small mercy in the circumstances :) - Sitush (talk) 04:00, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

Sitush, that is tough. My best wishes for your health and safety during these unprecedented times. El_C 16:14, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

A School History of England

I seem to recall you spend your time around the India topic area?

While working over on English Wikisource I ran across A School History of England (1911), which is a school (targeted at K12, I think) history book by C. R. L. Fletcher and Rudyard Kipling. All of it is remarkable for the sheer audacity of the authors' political views shining through (it's downright polemical in places), but it really jumps the shark when it tries to summarise the state of the British Empire, its Colonies, and particularly India, towards the end of Chapter 12.

I'm sure this is par for the course for British historical sources, but I thought it interesting that its worldview and biases was so blatant, and in a school history book no less.

It seems it is mainly remembered today as the first publication for several of Kipling's poems, which he wrote specifically for the project, and Kipling and Fletcher were, as best I can tell, equal(ish) coauthors of it. This isn't really my area, but it seems it was sufficiently successful to have gotten multiple editions, and later republished for a general audience as A History of England.

In any case, I found it remarkable and figured you might find it interesting. If not, I apologise for the intrusion. --Xover (talk) 13:07, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

Xover, thanks. I haven't seen that one before but I have seen similar stuff, including a schoolbook given to my grandfather ca. 1900. Stuff like Its early conquests had been made over the unwarlike races of Bengal and of the South; next, in the reign of George III, over the gallant robbers who swarmed over the central plains and were called Mahrattas. Early in Victoria's time we had to meet those magnificent fighters the Sikhs of the Punjaub, and the fierce Afghans of the north-western mountains. just goes to show why we need quality at articles such as scientific racism, Criminal Tribes Act and Census of India prior to independence. It was a different world, and not a pleasant one when viewed through our own eyes. There probably is some mileage to be had from an article along the lines of Perceptions of imperial rule in Britain or Education of empire in Britain etc - there are plenty of sources out there and, of course, it extends beyond India. I'm currently trying to improve Banjara, who are one of the lesser known communities to have suffered appallingly. - Sitush (talk) 13:14, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

I would generally love to see more historiography articles. Admittedly I am kinda weird like that, but it is fascinating to me the variations in perspective and priorities between authors, areas, and over time. My area is Shakespeare, and it has the advantage of having attracted truly ridiculous amounts of scholarship over more than four centuries (I think only the bible can compete); and up to about 1800 there were relatively distinct "generations" of scholars that "own" the field. And modern scholars actually discuss those earlier ones in fairly great detail. So, for example, there are whole generations worth of scholarship dedicated to the notion of Shakespeare's "natural genius", because they were typical English "gentlemen scholars" (i.e. living off inherited wealth) that had no other framework to explain that a rural working-class man with no university education could have outdone the university wits (Ben Jonson et al). I imagine the historiography of British colonialism would be rife with such stuff, and utterly fascinating (horrifying, but fascinating). If you ever decide to tackle that I would love a ping: I'd be absolutely no help, sadly, but I'd love to read the results.

The closest I get to overlap with the area is, I have a note to self somewhere that India seems to have a disproportionate number of Shakespeare adaptations, productions, and (in modern times) movies. There has to be an interesting story behind that, that someone has made a study of. But I digress… --Xover (talk) 18:01, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

Please look at Ruturaj Sinh Sisodia

I suspect this may be Ruturaj Singh whose caste is Sisodia, but I am blundering about in the dark. I woudl like to get the correctly article name, ideally. Very happy is you move it Fiddle Faddle 18:52, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Hi, you are correct. It is quite common for caste warriors to append the caste name to bios. They work on the assumption that all members of X caste bear the name. It is, of course, a BLP violation and a bunch of other policy vios. In this case, the sources do say Sinh but one to watch out for is name variants, so you might find in future that some sources refer to a purpose person as Sinh and others as Singh - both would be correct! - Sitush (talk) 18:55, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Sitush, thanks. This trivial article was the work initially of a sock farm, all now banned Fiddle Faddle 18:56, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Timtrent, socking on an Indian article? Who've thought it? - Sitush (talk) 14:32, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

I just snorted so hard, then! Fiddle Faddle 14:34, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Hi Sir Kindly update this

Can you add the reference to Banaras Pandits decision in the varna section of Kayastha. In my humble opinion it deserves a mention as it covers all three kinds of kayastha including mixed blood. Just one line will be enough. Thanks in advance. Vikram Q1W2 (talk) 16:59, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

No, sorry. This nonsense has been the focus of a couple of sockfarms and the consensus is clear. - Sitush (talk) 17:05, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Ok. Thank you for your time. Vikram Q1W2 (talk) 17:08, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Abuse?

Was that abuse on your page just now?[2] Bishonen | tålk 16:20, 18 July 2020 (UTC).

Yeah, I think so. It's a sock of Kadasa12 (talk · contribs), who also did a lot of anon editing here and at articles such as Mazabhi Sikh and Martial race. - Sitush (talk) 16:22, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

OK. Blocked. Bishonen | tålk 16:28, 18 July 2020 (UTC).

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Scheduled Castes of Tamil Nadu

A tag has been placed on Category:Scheduled Castes of Tamil Nadu requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the category has been empty for seven days or more and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. UnitedStatesian (talk) 04:02, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Well done

Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/EruTheLord! There seems to be a bit of a backlog in the blocking and tagging, but I expect it'll happen soon. Maybe I could do it... but I don't know the best tags to use, nor how to move it correctly to the oldest account (turns out not to be EruTheLord), so I might as well leave it to the clerk. Bishonen | tålk 08:44, 20 July 2020 (UTC).

Bishonen I feel bad about it. Have just left another comment after you posted there. A complete mess. - Sitush (talk) 08:47, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

I could topic ban the one with the long name for tendentious editing, I suppose (having read your examples on their talk), but it's a bit of a pity that they got the DS alert so late in the game. I'll have to think about it. Bishonen | tålk 09:07, 20 July 2020 (UTC).

Yes, I didn't realise what was going on and I doubt many others could work it out if they tried because it needs some background knowledge about the politics of south India regarding caste etc. Complete mess and there are a year's worth of edits mostly on the same theme, which presumably ties in with when the university report appeared. I wasn't even active for a fair amount of that time, unfortunately. - Sitush (talk) 09:09, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

I've commented at the SPI again too, proposing that the master be left unblocked with a warning. However... the pattern of their edits rather suggests someone who has lost their password. Sigh. Bishonen | tålk 09:14, 20 July 2020 (UTC).

Yes, I thought that, too! - Sitush (talk) 09:18, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Bish, might there be scope for a "tell us which account you want to use and we will block the rest"? We do that sometimes for newbies. - Sitush (talk) 09:20, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Yes, why not, but I have to eat something now, and go to the shops. You suggest it, or I can when I get the time. Bishonen | tålk 09:45, 20 July 2020 (UTC).

First of all, hello to both of you. How's it going? Long time no see. That said, if I may volunteer an unsolicited opinion, you could try asking both editor (and, if they do not take your request to heart, you could try restricting them under WP:ARBIPA) to discuss the issue on the Noticeboard for India-related topics, so as to consolidate the discussion there... Salvio 10:48, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Hi Salvio, I was thinking of adding you to WP:LTA, thinking it was "long term absent". I hope that I am resolving the issue directly at Pallar#Modern_social_standing. If Mamallarnarashimavarman (thank you, the inventor of copy/paste) wants to object to that then fair enough but I think they would struggle to deny that this is mainly a movement from within the caste communities. Most of their edits have either been anachronistic use of the relatively new name or have been quite simply POV based on a single politicised source. - Sitush (talk) 11:34, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Well, I've been pestering other wikipedians for so long that you, probably, could add me to LTA and some people would be in favour... Aside from that, I'm still semi-active, although I mainly deal with CU and OS requests. I keep trying to get back into the swing of things, but I never seem to find enough time to devote to Wikipedia... Concerning the Pallar issue, if you can solve it there, all the better I'd say! Salvio 13:33, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Mahar

Hi. When you recently reverted my changes to article Mahar, i missed to provide reference. I would suggest you to refer main article on "Marathi Christian" which is very specific and give exact information about Mahar Christian. You without having read the revised article, reverted it.. the suggested article gives information about dates whn christianity started in ahmednagar and number of worshipers... Few refenrence are quoted from - https://cultural.maharashtra.gov.in/english/gazetteer/Ahmadnagar/his_modern_period.html marshmir (talk) 10:13, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

User:Marshmir: we avoid government sources for caste articles - they tend to be politicised. And their gazetteers are often plagiarised from the Raj era gazetteers and thus not reliable. - Sitush (talk) 10:16, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Well you have not got my point. My main intention to change in article is to providing correct and specific information on Christian mahar where the existing one is not. I would suggest you to read main article of Marathi christian. The reference i provided you is just an example, you will get more refernce and Sources other than governemental on that article, i wonder Goverment sources you found bias. Where its a reliable source for international affairs. marshmir (talk) 10:27, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

If you cannot appreciate why caste is politicised in India, I suggest you stop editing caste-related articles. It is, the consensus on Wikipedia has long been thus and it is not a consensus that is likely to change. I will, however, review the Marathi Christian article, thanks - don't be too surprised if I rip into it because a lot of that sort of thing is equally poor. - Sitush (talk) 10:32, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Its really sad that you like to just delete paras in articles instead developing. For sure you get joy by just deleting someone's work to show your knowledge of Wikipedia.. i would still suggest you to first have approach to develop articles instead of being harsh with it. marshmir (talk) 15:06, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Marshmir I can assure you that I do not get joy from deleting someone's work and that I do indeed develop articles. You'll see some of that this very day here and a lot of it at featured and good articles such as James Tod and John Horsfield; also note my recent expansion of Banjara. - Sitush (talk) 15:33, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Well its fine until we have right motive. By devloping Wiki articles and bringing it to the good standard for its reader. You have changed whole article and thus the reason to create article is changed, you might not aware of local caste and its structure hence changed it without asking sources of information..marshmir (talk) 18:25, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Jose Chacko Periappuram

Your edits on Jose Chacko Periappuram and the comment that went with it. Just wanted to inform you that I was reinstating an earlier portion edited out by me because it had no citation to support it. Thanks for your work here. --jojo@nthony (talk) 11:03, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

I didn't look too deeply, sorry. I tagged that article a couple of years ago and nothing seemed to have improved in the intervening time, so I've had a go at it. - Sitush (talk) 12:07, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

Reverting article cleanup fixes

The article Urvashi Rautela was submitted to Wikipedia:Cleanup by Dtt1 on 13:23, 23 July 2020 (UTC). Editors from the Wikiproject Wikipedia:Cleanup, spend a considerable amount of their time applying constructive fixes to ameliorate articles on the English Wikipedia Project. The fixes applied to Urvashi Rautela were for References with bare URLs, References with missing titles, and References appropriately tagged as dead links to YouTube videos that no longer exist. The revert that you have done (diff) has been undone. Thank you! — WILDSTAR^talk 19:48, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

• Really, WildStar? That's ridiculous. Your post appears to constitute nonsense. Did you not read Sitush's edit summary? Bishonen | tålk 19:51, 24 July 2020 (UTC).
• WildStar, first of all, don't accuse editors who are in good standing of vandalism —see what vandalism is not— that is an aspersion, which is not allowed. Secondly, maybe avoid templating the regulars...? El_C 19:57, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
• Ok, I get it. Bad choice of template and way too harsh! My apologies Sitush! — WILDSTAR^talk 20:40, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

Martial Races and Mahar regiment

Mahar classified as martial during world war I same as Maratha. They continued to serve as soldiers and they even demanded separate regiment for themselves and got the one in 1914. Recruitment only use to happen whey the cast is classified as martial and many bristish officers before world war I supported Mahars Martial claim British had to recognize it in 1914. Do some research before editing

In Mahar Regiment you are writing derogatory sentences against mahar regiment try to read the sources and regarding global security as source most of the mahar regiments content come from that source we had discussions with other administrators so stop your disruptive editing. Raje Ranveer (talk) 04:04, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

There is a difference between being classed as an "agricultural tribe" and a "martial race", although the two became de facto synonymous by the 1920s. Similarly, there is a difference between being recruited to the army and being a martial race. The sources you have shown show recruitment but not classification, and they make clear that the recruitment was for a very short period and in extremis because the Brits needed more soldiers to fight in the later stages of World War I. The Mahars were among those temporarily accepted into the army, then dropped after the war ended. It was not until around 1941 that they were successful in gaining official recognition as a part of the army when the Mahar Regiment was created - I am not sure that the "martial race" classification even existed by that point as I think the entire scientific racism corpus had largely fallen into disrepute. - Sitush (talk) 04:09, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Note to self: Here and here ... and loads of others. - Sitush (talk) 05:13, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Eyes please

Many of these contributions seem to me to be questionable with regard to Caste. Warned in this diff Fiddle Faddle 15:40, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

In the case of Urvashi Rautela, I have cited a You Tube address which describe her caste and in an interview over [[Padmavat[Film]]] when Swara Bhaskar wrote a letter on it she said that she is a Rajput.

Not every time I am wrong and you should watch that You Tube video first before deleting my information.

Thanks Hope you would understand and reply me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amrapahal Pahanswan (talk • contribs) 17:40, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

Well, if you have, say, 100 edits and you got one right, it isn't much to applaud, sorry. You were doing circular references and your YouTube links are often dubious - minor Indian news channels not in English etc. Nothing against non-English sources but given that you are in any case a Rajput caste warrior, I'm not wading through full videos from poor outlets looking for the 10 seconds that verify what you claim. One of your other sources there was a circular reference to Rautela and I think you know that is not acceptable but, as with the self-identification example I have raised on your talk page, you pick the rules to suit your occasion. - Sitush (talk) 17:45, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

I am new to this so please help me how can I put someone caste, family and personal detail as many a time I have given citation from big sites such as The Economics Times and BBC News till it was deleted by users such as NitinMlk. I am also an Indian and you are such an honoured guy, so please help me how to give citation while describing someone's caste, race, personal life etc. Yours Truly Amrapahal Pahanswan (talk) 18:30, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

Amrapahal Pahanswan, First the person must; self-identify as a member of that Caste. Second, the reference must show that they are self identifying. Third, the reference must be in WP:RS. Fourth, it must have direct relevance to the article, not just naming the caste for the sake of naming it.

It is far easier to give this caste warrior role of yours up. A great many editors watch out for caste warriors Fiddle Faddle 18:34, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

One question that if a caste of a politician is described by a link Up vidhansbha members information. Will it be considered valid as it is the official site of Uttar Pradesh government. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amrapahal Pahanswan (talk • contribs) 08:15, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	He is a good and Friendly user with good record on Wkipedia. Amrapahal Pahanswan (talk) 08:18, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

History of Pune#Early and medieval

Hi, i was wondering if you could help me edit a sentence that i'm struggling with. Is the sentence meant to imply that the later deccan sultanates revolted? It reads like the governor lived for 200+ years and created several sultanates.

"A governor of the Tughlaq for the Deccan revolted and created the independent Bahamani sultanate and later the various Deccan sultanates rulers between 1400 and early 1600s."

I'm asking you because i know you're good at these edits. Thanks Zindor (talk) 13:57, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

No idea, sorry. It is a very confusing statement and I cannot see the source. Would it be possible to locate an alternate source? The one used dates from 1945 and I imagine there is something much more recent, eg: John F. Richards wrote a volume on the Mughal Empire. - Sitush (talk) 15:24, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Just remembered that I have a copy of the Richards book here. I will look now. - Sitush (talk) 15:29, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Actually, no need to bother. Backtrack through the history and look at, say, this version. I think that makes sense. My suspicion is it became mangled subsequently, probably during edit wars. If you want me to dig around for better sources, I can try. - Sitush (talk) 15:47, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Thank you so much, that makes sense now. I'll try and find a more accessible source, although i'm not much of an academic. Thank you again, Zindor (talk) 15:53, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Zindor I can also email you a pdf of a few pages from doi:10.1017/9781108680530 which sets the scene quite nicely. I think Richard Eaton's Social History of the Deccan probably covers things in more detail and may specifically mention Pune but I don't think I ever bought that one; if I did, it is buried in a box somewhere rather than on my shelves (far too many books here - hence, they're stacked up the treads of my staircase etc). - Sitush (talk) 15:57, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

I empathise about the collecting of books, but i can't say i've ever had them going down the stairs! I used to have a good amount, but after several international moves i've been left wondering where all my books have gone. The Richard Eaton book looked interesting so i've ordered a copy. I'll let you know what i find out. If you could email that pdf that would be very kind of you. Thank you, Zindor (talk) 19:48, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Use the "Email this user" in menu at left to drop me an email, then I can send the pdf. If you don't have an email address for Wikipedia use, you may want to set one up in your Preferences (top right of page) - that way you can abandon it if someone starts playing silly beggars. - Sitush (talk) 19:58, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

The Gadgil's source presently cited at the article is available at the site of its publisher, i.e. GIPS: click at the link under "View/Open" of this page. - NitinMlk (talk) 21:16, 25 July 2020 (UTC)#

Thanks User:NitinMlk; unfortunately the cited page doesn't support the prose concerning us. Previously the text had a gazetteer citation but i'm not inclined to read or use that. Zindor (talk) 13:26, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Zindor, the content in question was added in the following edits by the same editor: [3] & [4]. So you can ask them about the source used by them. If they fail to provide any reliable source, feel free to remove the content. I am not pinging them here as it would be better to discuss it at the article's talk page. Note that they have already changed the content yesterday with this edit. - NitinMlk (talk) 19:45, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

One moment please.

Hi...I wrote an article called Triveni Sangh. ..as i saw it in red....in a number of articles.Also it is Bihar related and i had certain ideas about it so ....i explored and did it.But now it is resting in Afc for a long time and date for review is increasing day by day.....last time it was within 7 weeks and now it is within 8 weeks.When i talked to an administrator. ....he asked me to request any person who knows better in the area to which my article belongs.As you are involved in editing these sort of articles.....can you help ??? Also.....at that time my account was not autoconfirmed.......so can i move that article to Wikipedia mainspace now ....by myself.?....Must reply thanks Heba Aisha (talk) 20:30, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

@Heba Aisha:. I've moved the article to Triveni Sangh for you.--RegentsPark (comment) 22:46, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks a lot.....I was hopeless after nearly half a month.....but because of u its finally in the mainspace.🙏🙏🙏 Heba Aisha (talk) 22:56, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Please provide me modern sources for Baji Rao I

Please provide me modern sources for Baji Rao I, so that I can improve the article. Mahusha (talk) 03:56, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, it really isn't my subject area. - Sitush (talk) 03:59, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Soomra

Do you regard the following as a reliable source: "Encyclopaedia of Ismailism" by Mumtaz Ali Tajddin https://books.google.com/books/about/Encyclopaedia_of_Ismailism.html?id=-VswAAAAYAAJ

The full text is available at Ismaili.net 2600:1012:B047:2CE3:88AE:E10F:1526:8CF3 (talk) 05:12, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

I don't know, sorry. There are a lot of niche encyclopaedia out there, often published by obscure outfits. I've never heard of this book, publisher or author/editor but then again I've never really delved into the detail of Ismailism (literally, I know it exists and that's about it!). As a rule, we should prefer secondary sources but perhaps ask at the article talk page and if you either get no response there or you cannot get consensus then there is always WP:RSN. - Sitush (talk) 05:31, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

I should add that the bigger problem with the Soomra dynasty article is I think people have been using snippet views from Google Books - if they cannot see the full page and surrounding pages, they should not be citing it. - Sitush (talk) 05:32, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks - there unfortunately are not many great sources for the Soomra since it is quite an obscure topic (lets be real), but I added some page numbers that were tagged. What is your opinion of the order of "History of India" and "History of Pakistan" infoboxes on the right hand side of the page? It previously just showed the Pakistan box, which I had added. A few months ago, the India box was added, but placed above the Pakistan one.

I personally don't think the order of boxes should be alphabetical, but instead should be determined by which areas were most influenced by the page topic. The Soomra were a dynasty in Sindh, and whose rules appear to have been largely limited to land in what is today's Pakistan. Further, the Soomra are not even listed in the History of India infobox - probably because they were of marginal importance. They are listed on the Pakistan box though.2600:1012:B047:2CE3:88AE:E10F:1526:8CF3 (talk) 05:44, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Yes, that is an example of the (often subtle) nationalism that infests ancient history articles etc for the subcontinent, and by extension many of the templates also. The arguments are varied:

• Pakistan did not exist as an entity, so the dynasty can't be part of Pakistan's history and should not even be in the template, let alone the template be in the article
• It clearly relates to a region that is now in Pakistan and likely to be of more interest to people with an interest in Pakistan
• India did not exist as an entity because the subcontinent back then was a mass of competing dynastic territories, there was no working concept of nationhood as such
• Alphabetical order in theory takes the heat out of things but, equally, there are situations when it can appear absurd. (Another example of this would be religion ordered as "Christianity, Islam" when 95% of whatever population it is are Muslim.)

Since WP:CONSENSUS is supposed to be based on policy, not "votes", there seems to be a distinct black hole in our policies relating to these matters and especially so when it comes to articles where nationalism is likely to be rife - assuming an equal proportion of active Wikipedians from two countries, and assuming that nationalism is rife (which it is), the country with a population of 1.2 billion is always going to "win" a straight vote against one with 210 million in the absence of some sort of policy.

Simply removing both templates solves the problem but arguably also does the reader a dis-service because they may want to trawl through related articles. Creating a new template for {{History of the Indian subcontinent}} just moves the problem because (a) that entity is ill-defined (Afghanistan? etc) and (b) people in Pakistan object to the weight implied by the word Indian.

There are days when I find all this fighting very tiresome but somehow we have to make a judgement. I will ping Utcursch and Doug Weller here because they may have thoughts. (The article is Soomra dynasty but, as I've just suggested, the issue is much broader.) - Sitush (talk) 06:11, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Heh. The nationalist issues are clearly evidenced at Template_talk:History_of_Pakistan. Quelle surprise! - Sitush (talk) 06:24, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, you really expressed what I was thinking (but in a much more concise and crystallized manner).

It's pretty obvious that the Mound Builders were not part of the history of the United States of America. Or that Roman Britain wasn't part of the history of the United Kingdom of Great Britain. Having said that, I see we have Ancient India which is actually about " pre-1947 history of the Indian subcontinent." That really needs a rename, although I don't think that 1946 would qualify as ancient. Doug Weller talk 09:22, 29 July 2020 (UTC) Although I seem to be wrong, it looks as though that's the name many reliable sources use, I missed the rename discussion last month. Doug Weller talk 09:23, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

So, on that basis {{History of Pakistan}} should not be referring to much that happened before partition other than perhaps events that crossed over the period such as the independence movement itself. - Sitush (talk) 09:26, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

I'd say it all depends on whether you're talking about the the country itself, the people, the geographical entity. Is it political history, regional history, anthropological history, etc... I certainly think of British history as covering all of those aspects and more, and I guess I'd say the same about Pakistan. If I wanted to know about the history of Pakistan from an academic viewpoint, I'd certainly want to know about the history of its peoples and their origins before the state itself came into existence - about the history of the place that is now called Pakistan. Same regarding India - I'd certainly want to know what was there before the British arrived. I generally think "history" should be broadly construed, but it's especially hard when nationalism rears its ugly head. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 09:58, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

I agree. It's the nationalism bit that causes all of the aggravation. Without that, no-one would really care and, yes, "broadly construed" would work nicely. - Sitush (talk) 10:13, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

New article for eyes please

Please see Varya Rajput and Chaudharies of Ambota. I thnk this is one for your care. Fiddle Faddle 12:05, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

The most recent number one, pop pickers!

I'd really like to know what tune it's meant to follow. Any ideas? I tried, err, a couple, but am at a loss... ——Serial 13:06, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Master Jay

In the interest of keeping the peace, you might want to avoid 'em. Just sayin'. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 15:11, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

No intention of going back to that thread. Just shows how out of touch they are: don't understand CU, can't spot an obvious troll, don't understand the issues regarding throwing around sock accusations, seemingly cannot geolocate and, without wanting to blow my own trumpet, seem to be completely oblivious of what I've done for the last > decade or, indeed, just how many admins I regularly interact with. The attitude and blase-ness (?) regarding the role is a stain on the work that many decent admins do. - Sitush (talk) 15:33, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Generally I'm willing to cut colleagues some slack. We're only human. But the lack of awareness. As far as tool use goes, it's been said that even once a year is a net positive. In this case, even that is questionable. Gah, every time I get the shakes looking at backlogs, I'll think of him. FWIW, I'd support you, but RFA has become deplorable. In a way, we miss out on good new admins because users are leary because of admins like him Gah. Net negative. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 16:06, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Well, Deepfriedokra, the lack of awareness has just jumped to another level. - Sitush (talk) 21:30, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

He withdrew the canard. That's something. The screed-- sad. I could be him, but managed to stay active, return after off-wiki adversity, and adapt as things changed. (sigh) --Deepfriedokra (talk) 21:32, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

No, he didn't. He withdrew the threat of an SPI because he was told by Salvio that CUs would not link usernames to IPs (as he should have known anyway). The actual accusation stands. - Sitush (talk) 21:34, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

And now I have been canvassing off-wiki? This is too much. ArbCom alert. - Sitush (talk) 21:36, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Scheisst! --Deepfriedokra (talk) 21:42, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Just venting. Boing applied some fire retardant.This need not become a conflagration. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 21:46, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Yes, I suggest just leave him to let off steam - he was, after all, poked just a little. I don't think there's any need for any further escalation. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 21:52, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

The accusation is 100% withdrawn. I am moving on from this. Thank you. Jay(Talk) 22:24, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

You made several accusations, not just one, and even in the case of that one you withdrew it for technical reasons and then doubled-down on your belief that the IP was me nonetheless.

If you were around more, you might have realised, for example, that you have become a by-word for legacy admins (eg: you and the resysop situation have been mentioned quite a bit on User talk:Iridescent, often as piped links). You might also have realised that I have no need to call in support off-wiki and that I very rarely edit article about Hindu deities or indeed any aspect of Hindu theology. Similarly, I have no interest in sci-fi or superheroes and very little editing to US topics other than my considerable efforts at Crawford family of the White Mountains, which was a rescue job. To suggest that Special:Contributions/66.35.104.149 might be me was absurd.

No-one is saying you have to be here - you can do an edit a decade if you want and it could still make a difference - but your ability to operate as an admin is clearly stretched by your lack of knowledge regarding procedures and you've actually proven that point over the last 24 hours or so. You may think I was discourteous but do bear in mind that I didn't criticise you in the BN thread, merely pointed out what difficulties the resysop caused for those having to make a decision. I let you know about that thread because it struck me that you might think people were talking behind your back and I think BN probably should be treated like ANI in terms of notifications - it is a central noticeboard, not some user's talk page. Sure, I did then add some criticism to your face but, well, QED. - Sitush (talk) 05:21, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Comment read. Jay(Talk) 05:47, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

.

Hope I have identified your caste correctly Praxidicae (talk) 20:27, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Ha! They're still evading their block. - Sitush (talk) 00:39, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

Kesharwani page

Bhai jab tmhe Kesharwani ki history nhi pata hai toh use edit kyu krte ho. Bhai mai Kesharwani hu mujhe aoni history acche se pata hai ,ab dubara edit mt krna .smjhe . — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zmnib (talk • contribs) 08:06, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Please see WP:V, as I said here. A read of WP:COI might be useful, too, because in my experience members of a caste are usually incapable of editing neutrally the article relating to their own community. - Sitush (talk) 08:13, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Kesarwanis are Kansal Gotra Agarwal. Sitush, Agarwal are aslo a bania caste and crème de la crème of the Vaisya varna. Also in most castes in India, sub-castes associated with Kashmir valley were regarded as one of the highest sub-caste of the related caste due to their Alpine origin, Aryan features and Fairer skin tone. Do the Kesarwanis some justice. VOT 2H1 (talk) 09:00, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Go away. Whether you are a sock or a meatpuppet or (unlikely) genuinely independent, it is obvious to me that you're spouting the same ridiculous POV as the recently sanctioned contributor. - Sitush (talk) 09:01, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

That one will trouble you no more. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 09:06, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you. - Sitush (talk) 09:15, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Some cases are less clear and some caste pushers deserve degrees of warnings, but when it's such blatantly open racism... Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 09:18, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

For reference: Sam.Johnanderson (talk · contribs) - Sitush (talk) 09:04, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Don't remove unnecessary references

Please don't remove unnecessary references on the article, you think irvine was not a great source. I don't mind anything if you remove the good article status, but don't remove the information which is referenced from a good book Mahusha (talk) 09:22, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

See the article talk page, and your own. This stuff has been explained to you and others. Only you are objecting. - Sitush (talk) 10:58, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi bro

Bro I am new here. I want to learn page making and deleting. Sahar Sultana (talk) 20:09, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Raju

Other pages haves used the same source even though the particular caste is not mentioned. Also talks in general sense about South India. I think you can revert.EruTheLord (talk) 10:55, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

No, I cannot and if other pages have done a similar thing then they need fixing. We cannot make assumptions. I thought I had explained this on your talk page and, as I definitely said there, I am becoming very worried with what you have been doing recently - I've had to fix at least three articles so far today. - Sitush (talk) 11:05, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Ok, fineEruTheLord (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 11:10, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Is Oldenburg relaible? Here after instead of taking direct action I will enquire about source if not sure EruTheLord (talk) 11:13, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Where is it used? Not sure I recognise the name, although Frykenberg is used quite a lot. - Sitush (talk) 11:15, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

This one ISBN:978-0-7656-0813-0 EruTheLord (talk) 11:21, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Can I remind you of WP:INDENT? That is something an admin recently brought to your attention also.

Google Books screws up that isbn and presents a completely irrelevant book about China by someone else. I think you're referring to something called India Briefing even though I can't see it. The title doesn't sound promising for caste articles - what is it you want to use it for? - Sitush (talk) 11:27, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

yes, That one (Ayres, Alyssa; Oldenburg, Philip (2002). India briefing: quickening the pace of change ). I am not going to use. A page already has it. Want to make sure before engaging in talk page EruTheLord (talk) 11:37, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Which article already uses it? - Sitush (talk) 11:40, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Kamma This page. EruTheLord (talk) 11:54, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Well, it just is not needed there, is it? We have a perfectly good alternate source to support the statement. That article appears to have become bloated with overcites recently but I simply do not have the time to sort it all out, especially given that it is now using a lot of obscure books. The entire citation schema has become a mess also. - Sitush (talk) 12:53, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

I am going to ask them to remove it is just superfluous. EruTheLord (talk) 13:03, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Something is happening here

A sock is on his way, seems[[5]] like Kalangot and Othayoth shankaran.Outlander^07@talk 13:52, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Mmm, certainly a similar vein but I'm not sure about the style. I missed the edit because the article had dropped off my watchlist. I'm guessing I misclicked the page some previous time. - Sitush (talk) 14:55, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Thakur Keshri Singh Makwana

Hey, looks like you stripped this article last year on the basis of the sources being unreliable. Do you have any opinion on the notability or even verifiability of the claim in the article that this dude was the ruler of Katosan State? I couldn't find anything on a search, but of course I'm limited to searching in English, and there's no indication of what his name would be not in English (nor what language to search in). I can take care of PROD/AfD if it's suspect information, I just wanted to check with someone who might know. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 03:45, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

I can't be sure, sorry. The difficulty is likely because Katosan was such a trivial thing: around 10 sq miles, fourth-rank etc. I searched Sage Journals, Cambridge Core, Oxford Journals, Oxford Scholarship, Project Muse, JSTOR, Taylor & Francis and a bunch of other places - none even mention the state, let alone the ruling family. I ofund one useful source for the state article at GBooks but nothing about the person. As for language, Gujarati is the obvious one but there are hundreds of languages in India so that is a bit too much like hard work for me and would involve a lot of dodgy Google Translating.

My gut feeling is, yes, the person existed and "ruled" the place (he would have not really had any independent power, being a vassal of whichever regional power applied at the time). I base that on the Raj sources which, although unreliable for many things, should surely get the name right for someone who was in power during the time of compiling those sources.

Thakur, by the way, is a title. There was a very active Koli-related sockfarm operating when I last edited that article, trying to boost the image of their community. - Sitush (talk) 04:51, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

I appreciate you taking the time to check for me. I'm going to cheat and turn it into a redirect to the state, since you couldn't verify enough info to retain a separate article. Cheers! ♠PMC♠ (talk) 04:56, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

That's fine. It has been around long enough for people to attempt sourcing. - Sitush (talk) 05:03, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Premeditated Chaos any chance of semi at Bania (caste). Anons & new-ish accounts have been disruptive for days and I can't revert again. I did leave a note on the article talk page re: the Assam claims that they keep (very poorly) inserting but I have the feeling they may not even realise that talk page exists. - Sitush (talk) 05:09, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay, I reverted the most recent edit and have semi'd the page for a week. If you run into any more issues after it expires (or if you need it increased) just let me know. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 07:09, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

You have wrongly inverted my added information on page Rangar

You have wrongly inverted my added information on page Rangar Page Representative (talk) 09:48, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Page Representative is blocked for edit warring. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 09:54, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Warning for making threats

You have made a threatening/insulting comment on a users page. Please refrain from doing so. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.70.241.246 (talk) 10:13, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Which page, says who? Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 10:18, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Compare User talk:Pinkeshsharma. Bishonen | tålk 11:21, 3 August 2020 (UTC).

Notice of ANI that mentions you in passing

Greetings, FYI I filed a request at WP:ANI titled "CIR-based community-imposed site ban re: RTG". In providing a basis for my request I mentioned you and your prior dealings with this editor. Your input at ANI is optional, i.e., invited but not specifically requested. Thanks for reading. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 12:58, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. I just knew this day wasn't going to improve! - Sitush (talk) 13:00, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Rathore article

Hi, I just wanted to clarify that I did copy and paste the paragraph from Utcursch's talk page after we had a discussion about the citation. You can still find it in Utcursh's page. I feel that it talks more about the intermixing of Rajputs and Kolis rather than calling the Kolis Rathores. You would have better understanding so I wont try to change it if you feel that the citation is in its right place. Ranadhira (talk) 06:58, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Ranadhira I can't see the sources but Utcursch usually has it right so I'm happy to go along with that. For future reference, it isn't usually a good idea to copy/paste an entire thread from one talk page to another. Certainly, if you are going to do that you should include a WP:DIFF in the pasted version that points to the original discussion, and a WP:PERMLINK might be best. It saves a lot of confusion later. Using a permanent link can mean you do not have to paste the actual thread at all. - Sitush (talk) 07:03, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Understood, thanks. Ranadhira (talk) 07:05, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Need help

Hi bro, eruthelord has started editing devendrakula velalar and devendra kulathan page without discussion. He has also removed statements without prior discussions. Pls look into the matter. Mamallarnarashimavarman (talk) 18:13, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Sitush told to remove venkatasubramaniam and associated sources but you did not give any explanations after that. EruTheLord (talk) 18:15, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Oh, god, not again. I think now is the time for bed. Early for me but ... yep. - Sitush (talk) 18:29, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

No bro, we can discuss things and sort it out on our own. He is open for discussion as well so it’s easier for us to discuss. If there is any help needed I will contact you. Thank you Mamallarnarashimavarman (talk) 18:32, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Any chance you an cut through the waffle, please?

Draft:Sri 1008 Jagadguru Dr.Chandrashekahara Shivacharya Mahaswamiji exists and confuses the heck out of me. Sri 1008 means so,ething, presumably. Looks like an honorific to me, as does everything except the chap's name. Even of all you do is move it to the correct name that would be excellent, though I think it is gong nowhere. You are my go to perosn for everything Indian! Fiddle Faddle 09:05, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

WP:NCIN has some useful guidance, although I really wouldn't worry about it here because, as you say, the draft is unlikely to go anywhere. There are thousands of cults in Hinduism, each with their own spiritual head. Whilst the cult leadership may pass from one person to another, each one seems to create a cult of personality also. I'm not great on the complexities of the religion but I know this much from years of reading gibberish here. It is noticeable that the people who seem to create these articles often seem also to lack much in the way of education, which probably makes them ripe material for charlatans etc. - Sitush (talk) 09:15, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for taking a look. I reckon it is dead n the water. Fiddle Faddle 09:45, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Fiddle Faddle how is winning THREE GOLD MEDALS in college NOT an automatic reason for notability??? How many did YOU get? But yeah, holy moly, Sitush's assessment of the article quality is spot on. Drmies (talk) 20:51, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Drmies, I failed my own degree! When an article appears to be so fluffy and promotional and comes from this part of the world my antennae twitch. I just moved the thing 👀 I had no intention of reviewing it, still don't. It's dead in the water because it seems to have been abandoned. A reference for the gentleman's gold medals would be useful in order to substantiate the claim, plus a goodly few others to substantiate the remainder Fiddle Faddle 21:03, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

The Royal Nai caste

This is the caste of kings who upgraded their profession to the sacred art of haircutting. Ritually ranked the highest. VOT 2H1 (talk) 11:15, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

References

Thanks. I thought you had sorted it out but I see that Cluebot reverted you. I will look at it later today. - Sitush (talk) 11:39, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Can't tell from snippet view but, from experience, this sounds unlikely. You would have to provide me with copies of, say, pp 77-80 via email or Dropbox or whatever. - Sitush (talk) 04:04, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

The word Nai means nyaayi one who does justice that is the King himself. Nai also use the brahmin title sharma and thakur, so they are the highest now as per wikipedia. Haircutting is their sacred profession, like the barberians of Europe. Use your brain. VOT 2H1 (talk) 09:53, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

But due to propaganda and jealousy of lower castes who are not allowed the sacred profession of haircutting, society wrongly considers the Nai as shudra. If Nai are shudra in India then baberians are slaves in Europe. VOT 2H1 (talk) 16:02, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Yes. Someone said the same recently. Do you know them? - Sitush (talk) 16:03, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

It was Sam.Johnanderson (talk · contribs) who was pushing this ridiculous puffery back then. They were blocked for a month by Bishonen on 2 July. - Sitush (talk) 16:06, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

I dont remember which ancient book said that but the Nai are given the status of crow, one of the most reverend animals. It says, "chidiyo me nau-a, admiyo me kau-a", which means like the crow is the king of animals, the Nai is the king of humans. Do you need more proof. You can quote me. VOT 2H1 (talk) 16:20, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

"Sacred art of haircutting"? My dead was a hairdresser-- does that count?

Alas I am not a socket of Sam. If that is what you were suggestioning. VOT 2H1 (talk) 16:28, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

For the person whos dead was a hairdresser,yes it counts. You should continue the tradition. VOT 2H1 (talk) 16:32, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Not me! This is someone else Sam.Johnanderson (talk) 23:51, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

But I agree with what they are saying! Fully supporting them. Sam.Johnanderson (talk) 23:52, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Sitush - please now read this; https://m.facebook.com/DalitDefenceForce/posts/451962898312320 I hope this evidence enables me to re add what I added before, but to prevent me getting blocked again I’m just asking your permission to check whether or not this source now matches what I’ve been trying to explain to you and you’re just not understanding. Sam.Johnanderson (talk) 00:04, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

The king caste is the Kshatriyas clan. I’m sure you should know that. Please let me know about whether or not this evidence can be added to what I said. Sam.Johnanderson (talk) 00:05, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

More evidence: https://m.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=866034620141616&id=678969278848152 Sam.Johnanderson (talk) 00:13, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

If this does still not support what I’m trying to say then I’m sorry and I won’t be editing on this page from today. Sam.Johnanderson (talk) 00:16, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Once again I will apologise for all the spam. I won’t be editing this page with this information again and commit these types of mistakes, but from what I’ve found online I still think it is relevant, but anyways bye! Sam.Johnanderson (talk) 00:17, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Barnstar

		The Original Barnstar
		For all you do, every day, day after day, without ceasing. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 23:23, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

• I fully endorse the above.-- Jezebel's Ponyo^{bons mots} 23:25, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

A nice surprise on waking. Thanks, both of you. - Sitush (talk) 04:26, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

.

FYI Praxidicae (talk) 12:50, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Request

Hello Sitush. This is Fire star on heat. A user with name Dinesh2069 replied me vulgarly on his talk page for my warning. I request you to go through this [6] and please warn him. He got many warnings. Yet he is reluctantly making edits. Thank you and have a nice day Fire star on heat (talk) 14:22, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Needed a help regarding the article Allahabad

Hello Sitush! Hi. I would like to bring to your kind notice that a certain user named Kashmiri, has made edits to page Prayagraj that appears to be affecting the whole neutrality of the article. I do not intend to name any user in particular, I just need to bring to light some particular edits, done consequently one after one, that has changed some of the long standing status of the page. Firstly, the user removed the metropolis status off the page stating that it isn’t really a metropolis, without providing any reference to the edit made, while the Census commission states those cities which are in prominence, centred, administrative headquarters which have a population more than one million, are referred as Metropolis, and the population is already referenced. I have no intention to get involved in any conflicts with any user. I know and understand that he might have done that in good faith, I just would like you to only revert back the metropolis status of the page since the population of the city is exceeding one million, and it is a city of importance, I do not ask you or intend to add anything, I just want neutral data to be restored back. I even provided Government link for the city given on the Government Urban and Environmental Studies website about the stats of the city. Under Chapter 2, City profile, section 2.3.1 it clearly says ” Allahabad city comes under Allahabad metropolitan area along with Cantonment board and urban outgrowths. Population of metropolitan area is 12,16,719. Male constitutes 655,734 and female constitutes 560,985 of the total population.” http://mohua.gov.in/upload/uploadfiles/files/19UP_Allahabad_sfcp-min.pdf The user Kashmiri hasn’t participated in any talks on talk page, nor has provided any significant reference on why the edit that was long stable was suddenly removed from the page. Alongside, I also provided a media article link back in 2006 when Allahabad was mentioned along with 5 other cities in the states and given metropolitan status. https://m.timesofindia.com/city/lucknow/Six-cities-to-get-metropolitan-status/articleshow/2210886.cms We editors look up to you for everything. Kindly help. Harshv7777 (talk) 07:12, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

regarding the citation needed on page Vaibhav Saxena

Hi Sitush, I noticed your citation needed template on the article Vaibhav Saxena. I would like to answer your question that you could not determine the newspaper cutting archived there. It's written in Hindi 'Sahara News Bureue. The journalist's name is Dheeraj Srivastava and the date and page of the publication are also mentioned. request you to kindly check it and if you find it okay, then please undo you edit or suggest the best workaround. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiloverindia (talk • contribs) 18:33, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Sivakasi Riots

Hi, Sitush. Long time. How is your health? I don't edit articles that much these days. If you find the time, please go through this page Sivakasi riots of 1899. It was recently edited by IruTheLord. As far as I know there is nothing non-neutral about it. Initially he/she tried to add lines that kind of glorified the community. After I reverted his edit, he/she started to add different sorts of tags to the article. Please look into it when you are free. Thank you. I hope you are doin well. Mayan302 (talk) 05:35, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Help need on a page

Hi bro, pls check on the Kudumbar page, sources are being removed. Mamallarnarashimavarman (talk) 03:49, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

This perennial dispute between Mamallarnarashimavarman and EruTheLord is starting to get a bit much — I have already partially blocked both of them from Devendra Kulathan earlier today. Perhaps more sweeping sanctions are due... El_C 03:53, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

El C if I were you, I would put topic bans on both of them. Keep them off all caste-related articles and discussions etc. It isn't just the battle between them because they are both individually making some appalling edits and I for one cannot keep up with it. That's why I more or less walked away from this place for the last 24 hours. - Sitush (talk) 03:58, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Makes sense. Will sanction. El_C 04:06, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

I don't have any personal disputes, but removing sourced statement is right in your view?

I didn't revert the edits which was done on that page, This things looks destructive for the Wikipedia pages. Mamallarnarashimavarman (talk) 03:59, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

You are both destructive and even now neither of you seem to understand WP:INDENT. I am at my wit's end with the pair of you. - Sitush (talk) 04:01, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Please review and adopt usage of WP:INDENT, Mamallarnarashimavarman. Anyway, I didn't say anything about personal, but the constant edit warring between the two of you spanning multiple articles is a problem and it needs to stop, El_C 04:02, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

El C, well, I've just reverted here and that is one of many examples of EruTheLord cutting a swathe through stuff that could easily be sourced. OK, the bit lower down that article is relatively a tougher nut to crack but the bit about being eleted to the Lok Sabha (ie: a member of parliament) is a matter of official record and I bet I can source it within five minutes from now. - Sitush (talk) 04:09, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

In fact, it was already sourced in the body anyway but I found this, which is the official parliamentary bio. - Sitush (talk) 04:14, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Both editors now topic banned indefinitely from all caste-related pages, broadly construed. The sanction has been logged. El_C 04:15, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. We now have to repair months of disruption. - Sitush (talk) 04:17, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Jeez. Well, better late than never. Note that if there continues to be problems in the IPA topic area outside of caste issues on the part of one or both editors, the topic ban may be expanded to encompass the entire IPA topic area (including but not limited to related BLPs). If possible, please keep me appraised. El_C 04:18, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Ok. My suspicion is that the problem is now sorted. It is all related to South Indian caste politics etc, as far as I can see. The region was once described as a "lunatic asylum" of castes (especially Kerala) and sometimes the inmates get to spread their madness on Wikipedia. - Sitush (talk) 04:30, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

EruTheLord seems to be operating under the misapprehension that the ban is optional. It is not, of course, so a block was imposed. El_C 08:02, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Yep. Watch out for them socking again soon. - Sitush (talk) 08:04, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi, after I was blocked from editing the Devendra kulathan page, I wasnt edit warring. I just wanted to protect the page from vandalism. I approached you all for help, put me on ban for caste pages seems not right, pls explain to me. Mamallarnarashimavarman (talk) 04:33, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

You can check my contributions after the partial block Mamallarnarashimavarman (talk) 04:34, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, it's too late to self-correct at this point. The sanction has been imposed and won't be reversed. Avenues of appeal are listed on the sanction template. El_C 04:37, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Draft:Meraka Veedhi Telaga

You don't necessarily have to give a full review, but could I get your thoughts on this draft? Just skimming it sounds like the utterly whitewashed nonsense that led to WP:CASTE being enacted. Primefac (talk) 15:43, 11 August 2020 (UTC) (please ping on reply)

Primefac, yes it is rubbish but in the glorifying rather than whitewashing way. The sources are terrible. - Sitush (talk) 15:53, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. Primefac (talk) 16:40, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Talk:Baji Rao I/GA2

Sitush, this reassessment has been open for two weeks, and nothing has been posted to it since it opened. As this is an individual reassessment, the closure is entirely your decision.

Unless you think it would be worthwhile to list all the specific issues where the article falls short of the GA criteria for the original nominator to fix in order to attempt to bring the article up to meet said criteria—that it isn't in what would normally be quickfail territory for a normal GAN—there's no point in delaying this unless significant progress has been made in improving the article since the reassessment began. While the "delist" comments by other reviewers are useful, it's up to you. Thank you very much for taking this on. BlueMoonset (talk) 14:40, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

BlueMooset I was hoping to get some other opinions but fair enough. I will have to look into how to formally delist, which is going to involve more than removing the GA icon, I guess. - Sitush (talk) 15:54, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

BlueMoonset - mispinged above; sorry for describing you as a sad herd of cows. - Sitush (talk) 15:55, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Sitush, not sad at all. ;-) I've added the Article history template. In case you're faced with a similar situation in the future, all past GA reviews need to remain on the talk page unless an Article history template has been inserted to gather them together under one roof. BlueMoonset (talk) 20:15, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks very much. Hopefully, for me and everyone else, I will steer clear in future! I am much better with content than templates etc. - Sitush (talk) 20:38, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Editor assessment sought

Does SadaikkaThevar (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) seem legit to you? El_C 20:07, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

He edits like IruTheLord. This could be one of his sock accounts. Or he could have help. He is replacing valid references(like Robert Hardgrave) with poor quality references (newspaper articles). I reverted his edits. But I am quite sure he will be back. This is my opinion.Mayan302 (talk) 06:19, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

El C I thought it was another Eru sock until I noticed a couple of instances where they seemed to revert Eru. Still seems very dodgy to me, though and a CU might be worthwhile given Eru's history. I did start to post such a message on your talk yesterday but then spotted the two revert instances. - Sitush (talk) 16:06, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

I just indefinitely blocked before seeing your response. Seems suspect to have all these new or dormant accounts involve themselves in this castes-related edit warring. Please let me know if you think I made a mistake. El_C 16:18, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

El C that seems reasonable to me. Could you also take a look at this, please? Pasword wiki is still making a mess of things and I think they are at the end of the line. You've blocked them previously. - Sitush (talk) 18:30, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Blocked indefinitely. El_C 20:41, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Vandal activity on Yadav and Ahir

Hi please take note of activities on Yadav and Ahir editors are removing image in order to glorify the caste. Heba Aisha (talk) 01:39, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

• Let me tell u the user Hindu kshatrana is famous for creating mess on Hindi Wikipedia.Now he is here.Take a lookHeba Aisha (talk) 01:41, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

• Yes, I thought they had been topic banned on English WP but it looks like I am wrong. They will be eventually, I'm sure. - Sitush (talk) 04:36, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Madhvacharya article

Hello. I read on one of the talk pages that you feel the Madhvacharya article needs to be rewritten completely. Any ideas on how to improve it? And what is currently wrong with the article that needs to change? I'm willing to put in the effort to clean the article up. Thank you! Prabhanjan Mutalik (talk) 13:45, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi, any idea which talk page? I don't usually get involved in articles related to deities but, from a quick glance, that article doesn't look in need of a rewrite. - Sitush (talk) 17:35, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Oh damn. My bad. It was a caste related article (Madhwa Brahmins). I apologise. It is nice connecting with you however! Have a great day! :) Prabhanjan Mutalik (talk) 11:42, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

No problem. I'd rather people ask if they are unsure. - Sitush (talk) 12:58, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Swaminarayan

Hi Sitush. Did you notice the efforts by Swaminarayan-believers to over-emphasize his relevance in Hinduism? See the recent edits at Hinduism, Vedanta, and, most notably, Darsana diff. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 04:50, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Can't say I have. I don't edit much in the "pure" religion articles. - Sitush (talk) 14:17, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Biswas caste page neutrality issue

Sitush, I was going through an article: Biswas, it appeared to me that too much glorification had been done, I saw edit history and I think some have been recently done by a user supposedly belonging to the community. Kindly take a note about that and it’s neutrality, if you could. Thanks. Shresthsingh71 (talk) 10:24, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Also, I saw that sometimes, people from unknown IP adresses come and delete Scheduled Caste reference in the article, because they feel this makes their caste article in low light. Or, I saw, a user added Kayastha to it and stated the article to be linked and used by Kayasthas “mainly”, or added “used by some” Scheduled Castes although the caste surname is a common name shared by both Kayasthas and Scheduled Castes, as stated by references, by which I think the page is being edited by some users of the community to give it appeasing, uplifting, glorified look. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shresthsingh71 (talk • contribs) 10:37, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

opinion about an edit

Hello! Kindly give me your opinion about this edit. Was the information added in the right way, or that could have been added in a better way (if yes, how?) ? Thanks, Мастер Шторм (talk) 09:37, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Please wait — I missed something there. I will re–edit that section and come back to request your opinion. Thanks, Мастер Шторм (talk) 10:32, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

I think, I have got it right now, but still, I would like you to have a look at this edit and please tell me if there is something to learn for me here. Thanks, Мастер Шторм (talk) 11:57, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Strange numbers

Any idea what is going on in these diffs (from 2017 and now): diff + diff. The first changed linked "Mailapura, Yadgir" to "Devaraj Mailapur 8861834742", and the second to "Devaraj Kadipontgi 9614906666". I have a feeling I saw mention of similar strangeness on a noticeboard. Johnuniq (talk) 01:40, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

@Johnuniq: I've believe they're phone numbers. If you look at the vymaps entry for Mailapura it's listed as a phone number there. The first number has also been posted on this page on Kannada-wiki. It would be interesting but perhaps ill-advised to give them a call. Regards, Zindor (talk) 16:55, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

I've blocked them (and their alternate account). Busy under the radar for a long time! --RegentsPark (comment) 17:49, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, I wondered if there might be an AGF reason but that was naive. Johnuniq (talk) 23:07, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

It's always worth being thorough. It could have easily been some kind of reference number, like an ISBN, in the wrong place. Thanks Zindor (talk) 01:47, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Repetitive one sided editing at Rajput page

@Sitush Please look into the matter. There have been heavy editing on Rajput page by two editors @LukeEmily and @HebaAisha. I tried to build consensus on the page but @LukeEmily who edited most of the page didnt engage and kept on editing the page. I sense once sided view in the editing and asked about it but in vain. When I removed some portion after giving solid reason but he didnt listen and reverted everything back I dont want to engage in edit war. Please look into the matter. Sajaypal007 (talk) 16:14, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

There is no "one sided" edit. Neither me nor Heba have deleted anything on the Rajput page. We expanded - unfortunately you did not like what the scholars were writing so you blanked out my citations.[copied from another talk page] Sajaypal007, Please note that wikipedia is not censored. If you want any WP:RS removed , you can discuss why you need to have it removed. It looks like you want anything that is academic/scholarly *but* unpleasant removed from the page. The Shudra, illiterate and peasant/pastoral origin is supported by multiple independent academic sources. The wikipedia intent is not to disparage any community but to portray an accurate representation as given by scholars. Sajaypal007, if you want to promote your community, no one is stopping you. But don't use wikipedia for it. Create a website or a blog and write whatever you want on it. You will be the owner of the page. You do not own wikipedia. In wikipedia, students of history will make changes based on what the academic sources say - even if it is not flattery. For peasant/pastoral origin - see Talk:Rajput#pastoral_origin. The very fact that you want to remove any mention of shudra, peasant and illiterate (all three are well supported by multiple academic citations), shows that you are interested in glorifying the caste. @Sitush, Ravensfire, and Bishonen:. This is another example of what is going on the Rajput page : [7] Showbiz826 removed a source completely from the page. Its gone! In [8] and [9] - Sajaypal007 completely removed sources. If you want wikipedia to be neutral please stop such editors from promoting their caste. Please check the history of the edits by Sajaypal007. He seems to take offense and blatantly delete any source that says anything unpleasant about Rajputs. [10] is by wikimaster2017. He did the same - deleted academic references but at least he was banned for 72 hours. LukeEmily (talk) 07:20, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Only deleting something is not one sided edit, adding something heavily can be a ine sided view too. You accuse me promoting caste many a times and I told you I only write about rajasthan history that is my specialization not any caste. I told you multiple times in the past too. What I wanted was made clear in my short descriptions of the edits which you reverted. Anyway dont debate here like many other fronts just keep debate on the talk page and let this page only be about intimation to @Utcursch. He can read the talk page too no need to discuss same thing here. Sajaypal007 (talk) 10:04, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Big edit at Rajput

[11] I can't tell if it's a better version or not. Bishonen | tålk 11:49, 18 August 2020 (UTC).

I can't tell, either. I am struggling to keep up with Hebe Aisha - there is something happening that I can't quite put my finger on, leaving me with doubts about their numerous edits which I haven't yet resolved. Just at a superficial level, I'd say the revert linked in your diff is poor but there is a massive qualifier. I know I'm supposed to AGF, so that's what I have to do here. - Sitush (talk) 12:24, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Heba Aisha - Sitush (talk) 12:24, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi....any problem because of me Heba Aisha (talk) 12:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

• Massive edits at Rajput it was not done by me but by @LukeEmily: Heba Aisha (talk) 12:28, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I don't know, and it pains me to say it because I am supposed to AGF. I pinged you because it isn't fair to talk about you behind your back. There is no doubt in my mind that you have made some good contributions and I know you have asked me for advice etc on occasion but, well, you've come from nowhere into a highly controversial topic area and have made a phenomenal numbers of edits in it, across a wide range of articles. It isn't "normal", which is not to say it is "wrong". In any event, if other people are happy with what is happening then that's fine by me.

I know someone tried to out you recently in an edit summary (can't remember which article but the summary was soon hidden). Chances are they were wrong anyway, and even if they were right I'd never heard the name before, but I'm being honest here: that sort of thing just leaves a little niggling sensation in my head. Blame my weird head, I guess! No offence was intended to you: I was just trying to explain why I'm unable to give Bishonen an opinion on an edit when usually such an opinion would trot off my keyboard. Probably I should not have said it, sorry. - Sitush (talk) 12:35, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

And, yes, Luke Emily is another. Maybe it is lockdown circumstances bringing out people who previously had no interest in Wikipedia. Whatever, carry on as before and ignore me. - Sitush (talk) 12:35, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

I will never ignore you Sitush or any other editors. When you told me not to add the Shivaji to the Bhosale page, I did not. The big edit was not done by me it was by Anony20. [12] . Basically what he has done is just gone back to a very old version. What he has done is reverted every addition that Heba Aisha and I did for the last few days. It is true that I have added content but it is all high quality and sourced. I am sorry if I added anything incorrect but it is accurate to the best of my knowledge. All edits are accurate and in good faith. Please verify the accuracy of my edits for your self. My apologies if I hurt anyone. If you tell me to revert any edit I made I will do so. You are very senior so I respect it.LukeEmily (talk) 13:01, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Both of you, there is nothing to apologise for. It's just an odd situation but I have no reason to doubt your contributions. I'm struggling to keep up with them but there presumably are other people watching. - Sitush (talk) 13:10, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Sitush. ...i follow ur edits and i learn what sources to use and what sources are not reliable from ur edits only.Till recently i was editing caste article but after being trolled by an editor who made accounts after accounts( finally blocked by Materialscientists) in order to harrass me; i m now diverted to indian history related article.Heba Aisha (talk) 14:25, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

• And yes😊 let me confess, two months before now i didn't knew that people like us write on Wikipedia.This is the lock down effect.Heba Aisha (talk) 14:46, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Sitush, I agree with Heba Aisha. I have seen her talk page and some editor was intentionally harassing her I have seen some her edits and I feel she uses very high quality sources and her edits are in good faith. She is also very polite. Her interest is castes in Bihar. Mine is caste mobility which is a controversial topic by itself. Hence, I almost never use sources that are not academic (either a university press or the author is a historian , etc.) For example, all my recent edits were sourced from David Lorenzen, Daniel Gold[13], Andre Wink[14], Dasharatha_Sharma, Parita Mukta (Oxford university press), Stewart Gordon (Cambridge University press), Burton Stein, etc. I have not used a single non-academic source to the best of my knowledge. [15] version simply reverted all these high quality additions(in addition to Heba's image additions) because he did not like what these western scholars had written about his community. There was another user who did exactly the same - User:Wikimaster2107 because he found things offensive - and he got banned by admins for three days. I am pinging both Wikimaster2107 and Anony20 if they want to explain why they are deleting large amounts of sourced high quality content that other editors have painstakingly added. Admins have already explained to wikimaster2017. Rajputization like Sanskritization is a hot topic, especially because it deals with infanticide etc. yet there was no mention on it on wikipedia not even on the Rajput page. Why are people so obsessed with caste promotion in the 21st century when it is irrelevant(at least to non-Hindus) and we should learn from the mistakes made and learn accurate historical facts rather than promote a community. Does anyone really care if you are Brahmin or Dalit (except in arranged marriages)? There are blogs and websites that do promote communities but wikipedia needs to be neutral. My last comments are to these two users wikimaster2017 and Anony20 and not to others like Sitush and Heba who I feel are far superior editors as compared to myself. BTW, Sitush I did not realize that you are from the University of Cambridge before!! Hopefully, we will learn something from you. And, you are spot on about the lockdown comment. LukeEmily (talk) 15:17, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

• And they are trying to make Wikipedia a blog.The specific thing i noted in all caste related article that they want to delete the Shudra word from there.I m M.A history and damn sure that except Brahmin no community could claim a pure vedic kshatriya status.But here the things that they find offensive are written in one line and glorification is the main focus.Also in this particular article Rajput, image of forts were placed.Though commons is full of pic related to Rajput people.I have been adding images to a lot of articles like Ahir Koli Kushwaha》Dhangar and many more which are suitable to a caste article.But they want fortHeba Aisha (talk) 15:25, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

The caste edit-war is spreading to multiple articles. I've left a DS alert on a couple of new editors that haven't been notified about them and asked for protection on one page that's seen a fair amount of edit-warring. It feels like this stuff comes in periodic waves and right now there's a pretty good sized wave close to cresting. Ravensfire (talk) 15:36, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

See, I thought there would be other people watching! Yay. The waves often relate to specific castes, brought on by off-wiki mentions in websites dedicated to those castes. Socks abound and I think we need to be much more pro-active in protecting caste articles because even at the best of times it is a huge timesink just cleaning up these glorification efforts etc, let alone trying to expand etc as Heba and LE have been trying to do. - Sitush (talk) 16:02, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

• Battle of Maonda and Mandholi 》》 let me tell both of you is a controversial war fought between jats and Rajput in which both side claim victory.Recently an ip requested me on my talk page about disruptive editing on that article.There were three people one named Meethamonkey(was supposedly a Jat as he was writing it as a victory of Jat while other were an ip and another user who particularly edits Rajput related article.I knew about the battle and source there was Jadunath Sarkar, who is considered the cousin brother of col Tod(sry in Indian context a Historian of Nationalist school of thought).So i wrote the whole article putting infobox and a balanced view.But this seemed offensive to the proud Rajput editor who on talk page of Rajput article blaming me of having biased view. I TOLD him to look my edits on Kumbha of Mewar and Lekhapaddhati if u think i m biased.In the meantime another ip became active at Battle of Maonda and Mandholi.So i told the litigant that i have nothing to do with degrading ur victory and ended it with the sweet message of Happy Birthday to You😊🎂Heba Aisha (talk) 16:14, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Sitush, you need to interfere here. This could soon turn ugly. <Personal attack redacted>. He has an agenda. Can you investigate into this sockpuppetary. Proud One 999 (talk) 20:26, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Proud One 999 is now indef blocked for that grossly unacceptable attack. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 21:05, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

I was adamant to not respond to all your uncultivated conversations but after seeing the message on my talk page I had to change my mind. Editors like Heba Aisha who are running multiple accounts to make edits and establish Jat, Goojar and milk man Aheers as Kshatriya should better run their facebook pages only instead of shitting on wikipedia. If you guys were really educated then you would have read some good books like "Reema Hooja", "Kshatriya and would be Kshatriya", "James Tod" or "GH Ojha" to name a few. All your attempts to make Shudras like Jat/Goojar/doodhiya Aheer rise to Kshatriyahood are nothing but show you are living in a bubble in 21st century. Anony20 (talk) 09:33, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Complete mess

Please check the article Sambandham and Panicker, it seems a new caste has evolved in kerala (Meloot Kshatriya), cited from nossiter source. Outlander^07@talk 03:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

text and sources

Hi Sitush, Hope you are doing well. Please can I ask some questions? 1. Why do we not used colored text in wikipedia. Is it not allowed? 2. To identify if a source for caste articles is WP:RS or not, where is the best place to discuss? Is there a forum/page for such discussions? LukeEmily (talk) 19:21, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

@LukeEmily: I can answer No.1 for you, the policy on this is MOS:COLOR. It's about equal accessibility for people who are colour-blind. However there are some instances where coloured text is allowed. In personal drafts you can use highlighting, in custom signatures you can use colours, and talk quotes are rendered in green text. Regards, Zindor (talk) 21:56, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

@Zindor:, Thank you. LukeEmily (talk) 16:27, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Mess up of the article, Thangal

Hi friend, The article 'Thangal' is in a mess (the details are there in the section titled 'Mixup' in the talk page of the article). It appears that an intermediate editor, mistook the English spelling of the word, which refers to a pronoun (a higher salutary form of 'you') as well as the name of a Muslim community (Thangal muslims) in the Malabar region of Kerala. The following will serve as easy reference:

https://www.newindianexpress.com/states/kerala/2019/sep/01/caste-system-exists-among-muslims-though-not-overtly-2027243.html https://www.researchgate.net/publication/260874955_Trick_or_treat_Muslim_Thangals_psychologisation_and_pragmatic_realism_in_Northern_Kerala_India https://epub.ub.uni-muenchen.de/59122/1/1363461514525221.pdf https://www.deccanchronicle.com/nation/politics/250416/thangals-all-set-to-test-popularity-in-malappuram.html http://14.139.116.20:8080/jspui/bitstream/10603/286152/12/12_chapter%205.pdf https://www.academia.edu/29618869/SADATH_FAMILIES_AND_BUKHARI_QABEELA_IN_KERALA_INDIA_docx https://www.ayurvedajournals.com/article/cochin-thangals

I wrote to Tito Dutta and he suggested reaching you. Would you please look into it? --jojo@nthony (talk) 13:19, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

please come back

Wikipedia needs you sir. Please come back. LukeEmily (talk) 15:00, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

LukeEmily, I know what you mean, but it can be exhausting to be so very much needed. Sitush is taking some personal time off. I'm sure he'll be flattered if he sees your post, but also, please don't nag him. Bishonen | tålk 16:13, 13 September 2020 (UTC).

I understand Bishonen and Sitush. Sorry, did not mean to nag. LukeEmily (talk) 16:16, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

Raj-era sourcing questions

Hi Sitush, blame RexxS and Bishonen for sending me here :) I'm working on expanding Nain Singh Rawat, an Indian explorer working for the British Empire during the Raj era. A number of the sources about him are, unsurprisingly, Raj-era British sources (though none are explicitly ethnographic). I know that those sources should not be used for anything ethnographic (hasn't come up too much so far except for an obituary talking about the "people" he came from), but I was wondering if there are any other topics where I should avoid using these sources. GeneralNotability (talk) 21:24, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

GeneralNotability, yes, it's our fault (puts ashes on head), but Sitush is taking some personal time off. I'm afraid you'll have to manage with your own common sense (which seems to me to be on the right track), or else put the article on the back burner till he returns. Bishonen | tålk 16:17, 13 September 2020 (UTC).

(talk page stalker) Sorry to hear about Sitush, @Bishonen:. @Sitush: I hope you have a restful time away. Let me see ... I had read a few books on the Trig Survey some time ago @GeneralNotability:. I'll be back in a few minutes. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 17:04, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Bishonen, common sense? Unthinkable! Being serious, I think I'm in okay shape, I mostly wanted the extra outside opinion(s). Hope you're doing all right Sitush! GeneralNotability (talk) 17:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

The problems in this biography as I see them are the following:

• His "caste" name Rawat. He belonged to the Bhotiyas of Uttarakhand. The "Pundit" was a generic for "teacher," as Smyth says in his short obit. Caste names were not formally used much by Indians until well after the first British decadal censuses which began in 1871. So the addition of Rawat for a Bhotiya who pretty much fell outside the pale of Hinduism is another example of the caste promotion and Sanskritization that took place in India, especially north India in the last decades of the 19th century and the first few of the 20th. I'll bet some good money that no contemporary source refers to him as "Rawat." All the Indian books written by self-caste-promoted descendants etc are unreliable (at least for the name), as is the Google Doodle. They are graphic designers, to be enjoyed, but not cited, in my view.

• The 19th-century sources, are not problematic because they are ethnographic, but because they are primary. You can't use them, with the exception of Smyth, or the RGS citation sparingly.
• The bigger problem is that the article is not using the sources that are available. It is of course using Waller, which is good. But there are others with enough about Nain Singh ...

• Stewart, Jules (2006). Spying for the Raj: The Pundits and the Mapping of the Himalaya. History Press. ISBN 978-0-7524-9586-6.
• Johnson, Robert (2006). Spying for Empire: The Great Game in Central and South Asia, 1757-1947. Greenhill Books. ISBN 978-1-85367-670-3.
• Dean, Riaz (2020). Mapping the Great Game: Explorers, Spies and Maps in 19th-century Asia. Casemate. ISBN 978-1-61200-815-8.
• Hopkirk, Peter (2012). Trespassers on the Roof of the World: The Race for Lhasa. John Murray Press. ISBN 978-1-84854-726-1.

• The most scholarly book on the Trigonometric Survey, although for the period before the advent of the Pundits, remains:

• Edney, Matthew H. (2009). Mapping an Empire: The Geographical Construction of British India, 1765-1843. University of Chicago Press. ISBN 978-0-226-18486-9. Edney has three or four pages on the hierarchies of "labor and responsibility based on race" that prevailed during much of the 19th century in surveying work in the Raj, both British and Company: at the top were covenanted Company or Raj officials; next, "lower-class" Europeans or common British soldiers; next, Eurasians, i.e. what today are called Anglo-Indians (these did the bulk of the topographic work); next there were Indians who were the manual laborers, with two exceptions:

• By 1830, talented mathematically educated Indians such as Radhanath Sikdar were hired as "computers." They did the vast majority of pen and paper calculations.
• Later, especially in the second half of the 19th century Indians, the so-called "Pandits" dressed as Buddhist pilgrims were hired to infiltrate into Tibet and Central Asia.

• So, summing up, I would change the name to Nain Singh (Pundit) or Nain Singh (explorer) depending on what shows up more. Note that the Government of India's commemorative stamp calls him Nain Singh. I would then use the more modern sources, whatever content I can scour about Nain Singh (who sometimes is referred to simply as The Pundit) and the backgrounder in them. I would avoid the 19th-century (primary) sources Montgomery, Trotter, etc. Sorry to be blunt, but this is the low down, in my view. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 17:19, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

  Fowler&fowler, hey, don't blame me - my contribution so far has been finding the map and starting on the "context" section! I know it has a long way to go, I've slowly been chipping away at it over the past few weeks but haven't had a ton of time to sit down and read through all of the sources. Really, though, thank you for all of that - I have a couple of those sources in the Zotero library I'm using to organize my references, but more is always better, and I'll avoid the primary sources as much as possible. Also, I really appreciate the comment on the name, I've been trying to figure that out for a couple weeks now (all of the sources at the time call him Singh, the modern sources I've read mostly use Singh with some newspapers and the Doodle calling him Rawat). GeneralNotability (talk) 17:37, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

:) The occasional "you" is generic. Nothing personal. Anything else you'd like to run by, let me know. All the best! Fowler&fowler«Talk» 17:42, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

Census2011.co.in

Hello @Sitush: I am in the process of editing indian city pages, many of which have used this blacklisted source. Is there any way you can help me out? Thank you Tanyasingh (talk) 05:54, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

@Tanyasingh: Sitush is taking some much-needed rest from WP. Perhaps you could ask the various people at U:Nagarpedian, where you have signed up. They must have dealt with that problem. Best, Fowler&fowler«Talk» 13:50, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Hey @Fowler&fowler: Okay sure, I totally get it \m/. We haven't figured that one out at U:Nagarpedian, but it is an ongoing effort. Thanks for your response :) Tanyasingh (talk) 05:35, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

TV DOC

Hi Sitush. You seem to have vanished. However... We're making a tv doc about Philip Cross and other high profile Wiki editors and, of course, you are one of them. In all cases we have analysed over a 5 year period the editing process that has been going on here. Would you kindly contact us at wikidoc@vistomail.com to discuss your involvement in the documentary? Kindest regards Wiktvdoc — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wiktvdoc (talk • contribs) 21:05, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

Regarding Maharashtrian Brahmin page

Hi Sitush, The user Debunkrational is Looking like sockpuppet of Joshi punekar. Joshi punekar also raised the same issue relating to Deshastha and Mahar caste characteristics and made a big issue out of it. - MRRaja001 (talk) 07:22, 27 October 2020 (UTC) :I don’t know how this issue is related to joshi punyakra .It issue is very simple the user wanted to add the content from gurhye’s racist one sided research so I gave him the information of the Talk section to avoid the content from Gurhye’s research as it's not accepted in the past and neither it’s neutral which violates wiki neutrality policy(The information is available in the same book what he is using ).I don’t know why you are portraying me as socket of someone.I am personally not entering anything against any caste instead avoiding him to enter from the same topic which has created edit war prior to this.Hope my intention is clear. Debunkrational (talk) 10:57, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

MRRaja001 and Debunkrational, Sitush hasn't edited since August, compare the previous section. You had better take your issues elsewhere. MRRaja001, I suggest WP:SPI or perhaps admin RegentsPark. Bishonen | tålk 12:41, 27 October 2020 (UTC).

Okay - MRRaja001 (talk) 13:30, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

I wish I could say I understand this stuff, but I don't! The general prognosis is not good though, similar writing styles and, in at least one case, similar content. (Also, how did they end up on this thread?) It's too late for a checkuser but perhaps @SpacemanSpiff: or @Doug Weller: have ideas? --RegentsPark (comment) 14:14, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

@MRRaja001 and RegentsPark: when I went to take a look I saw Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Joshi punekar. I've struck through the sock's edit above. Doug Weller talk 15:44, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Looks good, Thanks Doug. I'm adding a few of these pages to my watchlist in case they return.--RegentsPark (comment) 15:54, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

• @MRRaja001:. FYI --RegentsPark (comment) 18:04, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

@RegentsPark: @Fylindfotberserk: Looks like the user Shivansh Kaul91 is the sock puppet of the same person. - MRRaja001 (talk) 22:38, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

FYI, Filed an SPI on 29th. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 06:38, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Vanniyar

There is persistent glorification in Vanniyar article, can you kindly review the edits made by me Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Byasa Banerjee (talk • contribs) 02:12, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

Happy Diwali

		Happy Diwali!!!
		Sky full of fireworks, Mouth full of sweets, Home full of lamps, And festival full of sweet memories... Wishing You a Very Happy and Prosperous Diwali. Titodutta (talk) 17:00, 14 November 2020 (UTC) Send Diwali wishings by adding {{subst:Happy Diwali}} to people's talk pages with a friendly message.

Subh Diwali

.🪔HappyDeepawali🪔May this festival bring peace and blessings to you and your family • .💠245CMR💠.•^👥📜 17:15, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

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Nomination of Hindu Janajagruti Samiti for deletion

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A kitten for you!

How are you? Long time no see.

Fylindfotberserk (talk) 15:16, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

Khes

Please guide me in the subject. WP:GNG. Thanks and best regards RAJIVVASUDEV (talk) 04:22, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

Wb

Nice to see you around again. Hope you're doing well. Regards, Zindor (talk) 13:51, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

Hello

Hope you are doing well. Please come back soon. Of course, Wikipedia needs your help. Outlander^07@talk 17:09, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

Hi

hi sitush, check sourced content added by me Bihari Babu is back (talk) 06:18, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

droping...

a sock for you. Our dear friend is now locked on both accounts ;) Praxidicae (talk) 19:09, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Useless references present on bhumihar page.

Sir the recent addition of Arun Sinha’s citation on bhumihar page is not a scholarly analysis. In that book he is discussing about present political condition of Bihar(mainly) he has not expertise in field of anthropology and history. I would request you to remove that from article. Shakib khan1985 (talk) 11:44, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

I agree with Shakib khan1985 on this one. Arun Sinha is an engineer by education and a journalist by profession. He may be a great writer but he is certainly not WP:HSC. There are other academic sources that mention the Shudra issue and certainly we do not need Sinha or a quote from him for Varna status or which castes are elite and which were not. I can remove it but need OK from Sitush. Since when did we start adding opinions of engineers , journalists and doctors on sensitive topics like varna of castes? We need to maintain the high quality of sources as per WP:HSC. Using Sinha will open a can of worms and editors will start adding opinions of journalists on caste pages for sensitive issues like varna. For other non-sensitive topics about caste he may be OK- for example he may be OK for identifying the caste of Nitish Kumar. But a lot of these journalists are politically motivated and best to avoid their subjective opinions. I am not familiar with Bihar and its politics and I am not opposing Sinha's view - he may be right. But I am simply opposing his credibility as a source for subjective caste opinions on wikipedia.LukeEmily (talk) 04:11, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

(talk page stalker)

Check various articles like Bind Kewat Qassab and many more....we donot even have books to write about many castes. Because history of these caste starts after 1947.(If you start thinking caste articles as history related stuff then you will have to blank most of the content from numerous caste article for which on internet you can only find people of india state edition as source(unreliable): reason the upper caste didn't wrote about their history and you will have to rely on their caste association pamphlet)🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳{So cheers that I have even provided Viking and Routledge publication} Take for example yadav caste; though they are most dominant if you talk about political history you will find books by ppl who are not historian. Because historian donot write about political history after 1947. Even I saw Sitush said that Ashwani kumar is the best source for bihar political history, who is not historian. As of now you can move that content and adjust in politics section.(It will complement the other steps like formation of organisation to seek upper varna status.) Further this is not a history related article as LukeEmily is thinking, Since he edited Rajput who are historical group with involvement in earliest event of indian history.Bhumihar word hasn't been coined before 19th century and most history of theirs start from last phase of freedom movement when some of the people from the caste became local leaders of "Gandhi's movement.Heba Aisha (talk) 19:25, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Caste and Sanskritization part of history. I don't know about the literacy of Bhumihar but if they were literate like Brahmins then they will have made significant contributions even if they are small. For example, Baidya, Bengali Kayastha and Bengali Brahmin, have made most significant contributions in Bengal although they were a minority community in Bengal. All three are tiny. People of India state series is not allowed on Wikipedia. There is an equivalent one by Oxford University Press that we can use. We should not use low quality sources just because we cannot find high quality ones. I agree that not all need to be historians but for contentious topics like Varna we cant have engineers and doctors and journalists expressing opinions. Just as we cannot take medical opinion of a non-doctor seriously. Sinha is an engineer who gave up engineering and started making films and got interested in politics and journalism. How can we use his quotes for such a sensitive thing like varna. Otherwise we will have to use varna opinions by Arnab Goswami and Rajdeep Sardesai. Journalists are only good for current news, for caste pages they are good only for non-contentious topics - maybe even trivial topics like caste customs, X belogs to Y caste etc. But varna , literacy and anything that is likely to cause objection and require scholarly opinion - they do not have expertise in that. Many timesofIndia journalists refer to Marathas as Kshatriyas but if you observe closely these have political associations with many politicians who are Marathas. It is well known - even acknowledged by Maratha organizations that Marathas are Shudras. That is one glaring example of why journalist views on subjective matters are not allowed.LukeEmily (talk) 04:18, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

Most of the upper caste had almost no recorded history prior to 18-19th century. All of the historical references were provided by caste themselves during British era. Take example of chitipavans (Brahmins) there is no history about them prior to Peshwa rise in 1700s. Shakib khan1985 (talk) 05:47, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

Well the history Arun Sinha and kumar Ashwini is mentioning (they are talking about British census) is not 500 years old . Hence why don’t go with original census (by Risley, EA gait,ma sherring etc.) rather than a stupid unacademic interpretations of Sinha and Ashwini( who have no competency in sociology and history). Shakib khan1985 (talk) 05:52, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

We don’t know about origins of Bengali Brahmins,Baidya,Bengali Kayasthas etc.( except two or three names famous in 16 th century) every caste has a origin myth. Shakib khan1985 (talk) 06:17, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

White washing

Some people are white washing Devadasi and Aghori. 106.195.40.11 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 10:27, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

White washing by Aman.Kumar.gorl and Accesscrawl

User:Aman.kumar.goel and User:Accesscrawl is white washing Dravidian folk religion..They delete 10,000 bytes and tell it as sock..I asked them which sock added which content..They are not telling.. You look. 2401:4900:4DD1:89E7:A5BA:6800:F654:486C (talk) 14:59, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

Precious anniversary

Precious

Eight years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:39, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

Ethnic vandal

The vandal who was causing trouble at Ezhava and other ethnic articles has returned and re-created [16][17][18]. 157.44.197.148 (talk) 07:14, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Natalis soli invicto!

		Natalis soli invicto!
		Wishing you and yours a Happy Holiday Season, from the horse and bishop person. May the year ahead be productive and distraction-free. Ealdgyth (talk) 15:24, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Happy New Year, Sitush!

Happy New Year!

Sitush,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.
MRRaja001 ^(talk) 12:00, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

   Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

Happy New Year, Sitush!

Happy New Year!

Sitush,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.
Fylindfotberserk (talk) 15:53, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

   Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

Need your intervention

Requesting you to check the articles Mannanar Kalarippayattu & Panikkar for the recently annexed contents & references. It is doubtful whether these are cited from reliable sources. Outlander^07@talk 15:55, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Devadiga

Happy new year, Sitush--I hope you're doing well. Oh, I thought of you--I've been watching Hinterland. I know, you're not Welsh, but the bleakness and raw beauty of those landscapes reminded me a bit of the landscapes I've seen in some of your pictures. And it always rains. Hey, do you think you can add anything meaningful to Devadiga? I've reverted a whole bunch of unhelpful edits, but maybe you can actually improve it, rather than me keeping it in its pitiful state. Thanks, and take care of yourself, Drmies (talk) 15:49, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

Need your opinion

Hi, hope you're doing good bro. I made some bold edits on martial race and they were reverted, so to reach a consensus I have put a summary of my edits on article's talk page [19] and I would be very thankful if you will give your kind opinion regarding them. Wikieditor6699 (talk) 14:08, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

Need your help in Abhira Tribe page

Someone spreading lies like Chudasama were abhiras etc etc in Abhira tribe page , actually Chudasama received assistance from Abhira that is why they were called Abhira in dvyashyra of Hemchandracharya please help me updating abhira tribe page Navghana (talk) 17:28, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

You're back!

Hooray! Sorry if everybody else already knew. Just thrilled to see you back helping us out. Yngvadottir (talk) 04:58, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

me too. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 05:21, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Other Backward Classes of Karnataka

A tag has been placed on Category:Other Backward Classes of Karnataka requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the category has been empty for seven days or more and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 15:15, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

Liz you have done this bollocks before and were told then that sometimes disruptive caste warriors go around removing these entirely valid categories for which there are even official lists produced by the Govt of India.

Instead of kneejerk "must propose deletion", why not try fixing the bloody thing. Unless you are on mobile - and you were not on past occasions - it really should not take much effort. As it is, you are an administrator who is actually encouraging disruption. - Sitush (talk) 15:28, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

Liz - Here. Absolute pain to categorise on mobile so I won't be doing it. But I do think you need to voluntarily stop editing caste stuff, or else you need to be topic banned from it. All someone needs to do is take a look at even a couple of our articles on those castes & if the article mentions the OBC status already (and only if it does) & that is sourced, then add the cat to those articles. The list can be ambiguous re caste names, so I wouldn't advise using them as a source yourself unless you have some clue, which we already know you lack. - Sitush (talk) 16:34, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

Madurai

Hello, Sitush. You have new messages at Talk:Madurai#Citation style and volume of citation.
Message added --Bejnar (talk) 22:16, 18 February 2021 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Discussion on genetics research

Given your former participation in this discussion, you can share your views on Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics#Issue with genetics research sources. Abhishek0831996 (talk) 01:36, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Vishvakarman

May I rely upon your opinion on the wholesale removal of large portions of this article by user Chariotrider555? The following link will take you to the the relevant discussion. 48Pills (talk) 20:00, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

Sir please help

See Chitraguptavanshi Kayastha. Constant vandalism. Please protest. We need you. Arthanium 187 (talk) 04:10, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Victor Lewis-Smith again

Sitush, in case you hadn’t seen this:-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Victor_Lewis-Smith#Sigh

95.145.170.58 (talk) 12:01, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

LOVING the networking. Keep this up. Thanks for the info! We're digging away...! Gavelboy (talk) 20:44, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

Would value a talk

Hi. I'm a researcher new to Wiki. We're making a tv doc about Wiki with Jimmy Wales' acquiescence. You are one of 6 editors we are analysing. In particular, your Indian edits. Could we interview you in the "real world"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wiktvdoc (talk • contribs) 10:49, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

Hi! I am gathering some research about Wiki editors. I find myself drawn to this Editor's interesting work particularly on Indian political figures as you say. Not at all ALL negative. But you may be ahead of me Gavelboy (talk) 20:53, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

WikiProject India's Collaborations of the month invites you

You're specially invited to join the WikiProject India's Collaboration of the month program.

The collaboration will help promote many articles to the good and featured article status, but to do so, we need your help! For further information, see the main page of the collaboration.

Sign up for this collaboration by listing your username under the participants section and regularly participating in the collaboration. If you have already signed, please ignore this message.

You can discuss this newsletter here.

If you wish to opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself from the mailing list or alternatively to opt-out of all massmessage mailings, you may add Category:Wikipedians who opt out of message delivery to your user talk page.

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Sent by Hulged ⟨talk⟩ on behalf of WikiProject India. Thank you!

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:10, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Request for comment on "Wrong use of WP:INDICSCRIPT guideline"

Hi, as you have already commented on WP:INDICSCRIPT, I am requesting your opinion on Wikipedia_talk:Noticeboard_for_India-related_topics#Wrong_use_of_WP:INDICSCRIPT_guideline. Thank you. --আফতাবুজ্জামান (talk) 17:19, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Qaimkhani

One for your eyes, I think Fiddle Faddle 21:34, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Article Yaduvanshi Rajput Vandalised

User Heba Aisha vandalised Yaduvanshi Rajput article without providing any reliable source , Kindly review the article Raakuldeep (talk) 05:51, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

• (talk page watcher) @Raakuldeep: When you discuss any page on a talk page please help everyone by providing a link to the page you are talking about. It's interesting to see that Yaduvanshi Rajputs does not lead to Yaduvanshi Rajput. PamD 06:33, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

PamD thanks for stepping in. I am on mobile and it is tough to do some things + talk page notifications often don't seem to work. The Yaduvanshi Rajputs article should indeed be redirecting to Yaduvanshi Rajput, and pretty much everything Raalkuldeep does is an attempt at caste POV-pushing so even those without subject knowledge can usually safely revert their contributions and ignore the comments. - Sitush (talk) 06:54, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

I have made it point back to Yaduvanshi Rajput now. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 07:00, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 16:34, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

One sided narrative on Bengali Kayastha and Kulin Kayastha

Please check these two articles. Editors who seem to have WP:CIR with this caste , are reverting sources which opposes their narrative of Kayasthas being a Twice born caste.Heba Aisha (talk) 19:38, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

Is this edit which removes S.N. Sadasivan and adds Swami Vivekananda is compatible with WP:HSC and WP:POV. [20], tagging Fylindfotberserk and Kautilya3. Heba Aisha (talk) 11:41, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Dear Heba Aisha, I have already made a revert stating that we can't remove a well-sourced old content, especially with no discussion on the talk page. The content had been there for more than a year.

At the same time, you are completely free to add any sourced content. Let the administration decide now if that well-sourced old content complies with the policies of Wikipedia. To me, it does, but I am whole heartedly open to any transparent enquiry. Thank you so much. Take care of yourself. Ayushsinha2222 (talk) 12:26, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

On the other hand, I wonder what you wanted to prove by having the negative comment on top of the article—even before the history section, right next to the opening section. Were your intentions pure, Heba Aisha? Ayushsinha2222 (talk) 12:33, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Books, book chapters and articles by social scientists and scholars in the humanities, working within their area of expertise.

This is what WP:HSC and WP:POV say, don't they? Swami Vivekananda was a social scientist and a social reformer. Ayushsinha2222 (talk) 12:57, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

It is you who have removed an old content sourced to Swami Vivekananda. You should have discussed on the talk page before directly removing the content. This itself goes against the policies of Wikipedia. Ayushsinha2222 (talk) 13:08, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Otherwise, according to you, every secondary source is POV, isn't it? I request you to understand the policies better. I am sure you are unable to understand what a POV or secondary source actually is. You quoted Arun Sinha on Kayastha Page. [21] Is that not a POV? Your intentions aren't pure, Heba Aisha. I wish everyone could see it clearly on Wikipedia.

Ayushsinha2222 (talk) 13:19, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Neither Sadasivan nor Vivekananda are reliable for caste matters. - Sitush (talk) 16:07, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

I have removed Sadasivan, but I still think that this article is a WP:POVFORK and though looks encyclopedic, it contains selectively those sources which keeps them in Brahmin or Kshatriya category. To skip the other side which connect them to Shudra, this article has been expanded with caste promotional sources. Ironically, the guy who have expanded it recognise himself as Kayastha. WP:COI. Heba Aisha (talk) 21:30, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Heba Aisa, I am sure you don't understand what POVs mean. I am pretty sure. Go through it once, I request: [22]

Thank you so much for your help, Sitush. I am grateful to you. Ayushsinha2222 (talk) 22:39, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

It has been a pov fork for many years. The argument went something along the lines of the BKs being a distinct community about which a disproportionate amount has been written. It is nonsense, of course, as it is primarily an exercise in vanity. - Sitush (talk) 06:45, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Thank you Sitush, I am not among those who will put down weapons in front of these caste Warriors, who will play all policies in their favour on the basis of own understanding, like user is doing here. Btw, I have nominated article for delition, wat i have learned about dealing with WP:POVFORK Heba Aisha (talk) 07:27, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

@Heba Aisha: Stop getting me wrong, please. I am no caste-warrior. I was merely advocating neutrality. I have had no other motives at all. I wonder why you failed to reach a consensus with me.

Don't be disheartened. Place your varna section right with these later sources. I hope you are happy after that. Ayushsinha2222 (talk) 07:50, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Jimmy White

Hi! I just wanted to commend you for taking a look at the Jimmy White article. It's been on my list for a long time, but it's in terrible shape - and I never get round to it.

I should let you know that the Snooker Scene blog is deemed RS due to it being written by David Hendon, who also writes Snooker Scene (the magazine). Not that it makes a great deal of difference, but just a heads-up in case it's on any other articles. Have a great night. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:11, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Vellalar Origin of Nairs

Kindly opine on the possible Vellalar origin of Nair here Talk:Pillai_(Kerala_title)#Vellalar_Origin_of_Nairs. I believe the vellala origin tradition and the various examples of naturalisation of various tamil groups as nairs must be mentioned in the Nair page. Cyberanthropologist (talk) 05:44, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Review

Hi I'm Sumit banaphar, I have recently participate on Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard to ask that is the source I'm providing to make changes is reliable or not. So can you please review my request, if you're interested. Sumit banaphar (talk) 18:04, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Nomination of T. Natarajan (politician) for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article T. Natarajan (politician) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/T. Natarajan (politician) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.

Clog Wolf _Howl 15:32, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Misuse of power

Mr. Ekdaliyan is misusing his power and deleting everything what I have given. Please come to baidya talk page for Your guidance. Abhishek Sengupta 24 (talk) 10:07, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

https://www.scribd.com/doc/292425503/Journal-of-Bengali-Studies-Vol-4-No-2 I have used it as a source but according to Mr Ekdalian "Tamal Dasgupta, a Baidya, as clearly evident from the surname, who will obviously put forward what the Baidyas claim." But whatever he provided has proper citation itself. For example He said about census report in page80 and it is true as I myself checked it https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.56022 You can also check it. He told about T.P Russell Stracey's view about vaidya. In page 81.It is also valied https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.237762/page/n142/mode/1up You can also check it. Each and Every point has proper citation. He also talk about what other says about Baidya. Sir Reliability should base on facts not on title. Please consider it.

Abhishek Sengupta 24 (talk) 13:24, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

The article of Baidya would not complete if some neutral authors of Raj era is not allowed as very few Post Raj Era sources available for this caste. Abhishek Sengupta 24 (talk) 13:28, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

I want to use those information that is cited in this journal after checking reliability myself. Abhishek Sengupta 24 (talk) 13:43, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

And those which are available online either in googlebook ot Archieved form or any other online form for which the reliability can be checked by you also sir. Abhishek Sengupta 24 (talk) 13:46, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

Waiting for your interference on baidya talk page for consensus as any other vaidyas I also have no Reliability on Mr. Ekdaliyan. Abhishek Sengupta 24 (talk) 15:37, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

What is going on here In wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saraswat_Brahmin Page they added vaidya saraswat brahmin and it was their from the very first day of the page. Vaidya and Saraseat Brahmin know their tradition. Now Mr. Ekdaliyan deleted it from saraswat brahmin page also. Abhishek Sengupta 24 (talk) 02:03, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

Hey Abhishek Sengupta 24, read WP:OWN. Who added doesn't matter; and I have removed not just Baidya but also other stuff, which appeared unsourced at a glance. Thanks. Ekdalian (talk) 12:28, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

Ok I understand it. This is most unfortunate for vaidya that after independence none(as far I searched) of the non vaidya writers take initiative to write properly the actual history of Vaidya. They always stands with the Mythological origin of vaidya. Vaidya themselves are minor among Brahmins and Kayastha on Bengal and not exist outside Bengal. Most probably thats why not much source available.We have folklores about how our forefathers migrated from the bank of River Saraswati. I am trying to find relevant sources. Thank you. Abhishek Sengupta 24 (talk) 12:50, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

Even none(Non Vaidya)have interpreted our Kuluji texts also. Abhishek Sengupta 24 (talk) 13:01, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

It is also not reliable source but still giving you. There so many sites available but very les books available https://familypedia.wikia.org/wiki/List_of_Saraswat_Brahmins Abhishek Sengupta 24 (talk) 13:18, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

Like this http://gopalakri.blogspot.com/2013/01/saraswat-brahmin.html?m=1 Abhishek Sengupta 24 (talk) 13:19, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

The above block was written on 2013 Abhishek Sengupta 24 (talk) 13:22, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

Some Raj Era neutral sources available as I have given you but that are still not accepted as per consensus as you told me. Abhishek Sengupta 24 (talk) 13:26, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

hello Mr sitush.please do something to stop ekdalian,who is misusing his power to promote his caste and demoting vaidyas.check the talk page of baidya.we gave enough neutral sources to prove that vaidyas are saraswat brahmins.but that hypocrite ekdalian removing them saying they are not valid ,even they are from a neutral and well known auther.this guy Ekdalian does not deserve to be an admin of Wikipedia.

I don't know why those caste glorifiers all think Ekdalian is an admin? (He isn't.) Perhaps because he edits properly and neutrally? Bishonen | tålk 19:53, 25 May 2021 (UTC).

We are not Mr Bishonen. Baidya community has all Brahminchal tradition since ages. I have given some individual sources based on which the Journal was written Go Kayastha and Brahmin page. All those have written Book are based on the previos sources from a Kayastha or Brahmin writers. My point is only mere a title Should not be a measure of Reliability. Abhishek Sengupta 24 (talk) 14:29, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Abhishek Sengupta 24, you are right about that, indeed. I was commenting on the (unsigned) comment by Bengaliwikipro immediately above mine, where they say "this guy Ekdalian does not deserve to be an admin of Wikipedia" — I wasn't talking about you. My impression is that you are editing in good faith, even though your comments on Ekdalian are also inappropriate. Please only discuss edits — not editors. Also, Sitush is clearly taking a break from caste subjects, and I don't blame him. Bishonen | tålk 14:41, 27 May 2021 (UTC).

Ok thanks. I am sorry for that.Please excuse me Mr. Ekdaliyan and Bishonen. Abhishek Sengupta 24 (talk) 15:40, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Thank you so much, Bishonen for your kind words; it means a lot to me!

And Abhishek Sengupta 24, I also believe you are editing in good faith only, and there can be differences as far as reliability of your sources are concerned, especially since you are really trying hard to find acceptable sources in order to prove what you strongly believe. Thanks. Ekdalian (talk) 16:16, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Yes absolutely.thanks Mr.Ekdaliyan. Abhishek Sengupta 24 (talk) 16:29, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Sivakasi Riots article bothered by a sock?

The contents of the Sivakasi riots of 1899 article are being deleted by a new user called Vendsoil. Based on the way he edits, he is most probably the sock of EruTheLord. I have filed a complaint accordingly here. Please go through this issue when you find the time. I hope you are doing well. Thank you. Mayan302 (talk) 17:35, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

FYI

I have blocked 2a00:23c7:6585:a700::/64 for longtime vandalism at At Home with the Noonans and other mostly Noonan-related articles. Should give you a bit of a break! Bishonen | tålk 11:54, 31 May 2021 (UTC). (Forgot to say: blocked for 3 months. Bishonen | tålk 19:49, 31 May 2021 (UTC).)

Cultivator Rajpoot image

Hey Sitush, the image of cultivator Rajpoot from Dehradoon is being objected by some editors, even it is from a reliable source. Your feedback on talk page will be valuable. Heba Aisha (talk) 16:49, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

Desikar was not a caste

Dear @Sitush: Desigar was a caste title used by various community. But in this article contains wrong information. Please correct it Tirukodimadachengunrur (talk) 13:59, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

Desikar Tirukodimadachengunrur (talk) 13:59, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

I haven't looked at the article. WP:V will apply. Probably best raising it at the article talk page. Including variant spellings that you know of might help. - Sitush (talk) 17:45, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

One solution on khandayat

Just go with jogendra nath bhattacharya 's book Hindu caste and sect 1896.he was a famous writter. Page 147 https://archive.org/details/hinducastesands00bhatgoog Sagardon4 (talk) 03:39, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

Raj era sources are not usually considered to be reliable for caste stuff. - Sitush (talk) 17:47, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

An uncertainty

Shouldn't this rule be followed here too? R.C^{Outlander07@talk} 16:44, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

I am on mobile and struggling to see things. Which "rule" are you referring to? That list of STCs is repeatedly in breach of numerous policies and, to be honest, I would like to see EP:ECP applied to all such Indian lists - religions, castes, even the "people from ..." ones. They are a massive time-sink and of little encyclopaedic purpose. - Sitush (talk) 17:42, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

WP:ECP - Sitush (talk) 17:43, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

So we should follow the consensus that not to include someone in the lists by simply assuming their ethnicity without having a proper source right? I doubt the STC list has very much expanded mostly by the sockpuppets. R.C^{Outlander07@talk} 18:29, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

Yes. No source, no mention. And, if living, they must self-identify. In addition, it is not good enough for a source to say X or Y was "born into" an STC (or Hindu etc) family..- Sitush (talk) 18:37, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Dargahi Singh Bhati

The article Dargahi Singh Bhati has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Notability template has been in place since September 2018 and little work has been done to the article. One article via redirect and a DAB page link to this article which appears to demonstrate a lack of notability. Article was created in August of 2018.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Adakiko (talk) 11:29, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for taking a look at that article. You were the one to add the notability tag to Dargahi Singh Bhati Sep 2018 ;o) Do you think the notability tag should be removed from Umrao Singh Bhati? Cheers Adakiko (talk) 19:12, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

I probably tagged it in error by misclicking, or maybe I thought it might cause people to dig for more sources, or perhaps it wasn't sourced at all then. Or maybe it was a complete brain fart by me! I am on mobile & I'm not going to trawl the history.

If the Bharti person was a king & there is a good source for that, the tag can probably be removed. Someone may object, and I can't pretend I am terribly happy myself about having loads of stubs for minor rulers in India that will never be expanded, but I think consensus is probably on your side. - Sitush (talk) 19:28, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

I don't need to remove that notability template. What do you think about the use of the templates on WP: General sanctions/South Asian social groups#Remedies Cheers Adakiko (talk) 20:25, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

I was one of the people in the vanguard of seeking some sort of sanctions regime in the topic area. It has helped a lot, although there is still quite a bit of variance in how administrators apply it (not surprising - they're human and it involves discretion). - Sitush (talk) 20:31, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

I added a {{Gs/talk notice|sasg}} to Talk:Dargahi Singh Bhati. Also placed a {{Gs/alert|sasg}} on an editor's talk page. Edited Wikipedia:General sanctions/South Asian social groups changing {{Castewarningtalk}} to {{Gs/talk notice|sasg}} as the first says it has been replaced by the latter. Cheers Adakiko (talk) 20:44, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

Happy First Edit Day!

Hey, Sitush. I'd like to wish you a wonderful First Edit Day on behalf of the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day! CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 23:26, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Eyes on this edit please

A new editor is making Caste or similar edits to articles. See this diff and their prior edit that I reverted. They may benefit form your advice or that of a talk page stalker here. Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 22:18, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

ITN recognition for Virbhadra Singh

On 10 July 2021, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Virbhadra Singh, which you updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. PFHLai (talk) 10:56, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

RfC:Mentioning of Narendra Modi's marriage

Greetings,

Talk:Narendra Modi stats indicates you seem to be one of foremost participant in talk page there by added content.

A Request for Comment has been started @ Talk:Narendra Modi#RfC:Mentioning of Narendra Modi's marriage

Thanks for inputs

Bookku, 'Encyclopedias are for expanding information and knowledge' (talk) 18:23, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Interview requested again

Hello Sitush. Are you aware of this article? [23]. May we request, again, an interview with you for a tv documentary to be aired in 2022? It's about the article, but also your editing, and your association with other editors, going back many years. Be clear that we reach out to you in a fair and balanced manner. Our team has been researching many key editors thoroughly now for many months, and continues to do so. Wiktvdoc (talk) 23:41, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

RogerWoodward

You were the last editor to take a serious pruning to Roger Woodward. It has expanded tremendously, per additions from an undeclared COI (family). Any chance you want to trim again? David notMD (talk) 13:25, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

I am mostly on mobile, which makes things very hard work. You could just revert to the pre-COI version. - Sitush (talk) 08:21, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

National Jevelin Day (NJD) Neeraj Chopra

Sir , Times of India (TOI) clearly reported that Athletics Federation Of India announced to celebrate 7 Aug as NJD. TOI is respected newspaper. Atleast it can be added, please undo your revert.Newton Euro (talk) 10:45, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

See WP:CRYSTAL. The nationalists are going mad & official bodies are joining in. It is a storm in a teacup - wait until/if the event happens & then see if it is even worth a mention. - Sitush (talk) 11:12, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

Oh, and the ToI is not a respected newspaper on Wikipedia. It is borderline incoherent, partisan, often wrong, a frequent violator of copyright, and usually nowadays no more reliable than the gutter press. - Sitush (talk) 11:14, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

Your right India'a all kind of news media is filth, garbage. They're ignorant. Newton Euro (talk) 13:43, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

Don't be ridiculous. If you don't have time to read and understand WP:CRYSTAL you should not edit Wikipedia. Ask questions at WP:Teahouse rather than give misguided opinions on Wikipedia's procedures. Johnuniq (talk) 23:30, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

Sir, You did a great job by throwing all the gift, rewards list of this article. I also want tell ya that same kind of problem is on P V Sindhu, Mirabai Chanu and the Bronze medalist Lovalina, You can do this same procedure also on these arti. Newton Euro (talk) 08:14, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Caste warrior

We have a caste warrior at Bairagi (caste). They have had loads of warnings but are still editing disruptive and I am struggling on mobile to work out when/if I am overstepping 3RR. Please can an admin take a look. - Sitush (talk) 09:06, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Ok, I am giving up on it. Pretty sure I am unintentionally over-reverting & the contributor clearly is not listening. Caste stuff at this place is becoming a complete mess again and too many admins are too soft. - Sitush (talk) 10:06, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Now happening at Nandgaon State also. This person seems to have no intention of following policy/guidelines, nor even engaging in discussion. - Sitush (talk) 06:58, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

I have added a source that calls Bairagi a sect as you rightly said. Also, Bairagis are drawn from all varnas - from Brahmin to Shudra. It is not a caste. Anyone can be a bairagi. I have added academic sources from UCB, UC and OUP. I agree that article is a mess. ThanksLukeEmily (talk) 10:45, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

The entire thing is a mess. We have an admin there now but the response is far too soft - numerous warnings, messages etc to two editors who are SPAs and clearly have no intention of following our policies etc. This clarity was present even before my first note above. It is ridiculous. - Sitush (talk) 09:20, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

Another long-term clueless warrior at Ror - Ror84here. - Sitush (talk) 10:07, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Hm. The Ror article, which has now reverted to glorification etc & BLP violations, may actually involve a sock or meat farm. It needs to be reverted to last best. Needs protecting also. - Sitush (talk) 06:15, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

And no way is Bharat Ganguly a new editor, although the account has few edits - just look at their edit summaries. I should AGF that they previously edited anonymously but that is tricky given what is happening at rhat article. - Sitush (talk) 06:45, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

Gupta Ynr and V.S.bhardwaj are creating utter chaos with repeated moves of articles that once started "Bairagi". The app seems unable to cope. - Sitush (talk) 08:56, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Perhaps because too many redirects? - Sitush (talk) 08:58, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Celibate ascetics (vairagi) and Bairagi Brahmin caste

Celibate ascetics (vairagi) and bairagi brahmin (caste) is different. Celibate ascetics (vairagi) is about celibate sadhus of vaishnav sect and bairagi brahmin is about the caste and peoples belongs to bairagi caste. Gupta Ynr (talk) 01:35, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

You need to respond on the article talk pages, where everyone has a reasonable opportunity to see what you are saying. I have asked some questions there and unfortunately those are just the start of sorting out the mess which has been created. - Sitush (talk) 03:00, 12 August 2021 (UTC)