Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard

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Welcome to the dispute resolution noticeboard (DRN)

This is an informal place to resolve small content disputes as part of dispute resolution. It may also be used as a tool to direct certain discussions to more appropriate forums, such as requests for comment, or other noticeboards. You can ask a question on the talk page. This is an early stop for most disputes on Wikipedia. You are not required to participate, however, the case filer must participate in all aspects of the dispute or the matter will be considered failed. Any editor may volunteer! Click this button to add your name! You don't need to volunteer to help. Please feel free to comment below on any case. Be civil and remember; Maintain Wikipedia policy: it is usually a misuse of a talk page to continue to argue any point that has not met policy requirements. Editors must take particular care adding information about living persons to any Wikipedia page. This may also apply to some groups. Noticeboards should not be a substitute for talk pages. 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Current disputes

Frederick S. Jaffe

– New discussion.

Filed by DaveJaffe on 21:01, 22 December 2020 (UTC).

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Frederick S. Jaffe (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• DaveJaffe (talk · contribs)
• Doniago (talk · contribs)
• Robert McClenon (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

After a long back and forth regarding this Wikipedia page the discussion was locked by a superuser (keri) who reviewed the content in our favor. A new user, Doniago, made several misleading content changes that just go back to the original discussion that was already decided. From 2016:The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows. The dispute was elevated to Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard#Talk:Frederick S. Jaffe. (non-admin closure) Keri (talk) 10:44, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows. The dispute was elevated to Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard#Talk:Frederick S. Jaffe. (non-admin closure) Keri (talk) 10:44, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?

Please prevent Doniago or anyone else from changing the content again

Summary of dispute by Doniago

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

Summary of dispute by Robert McClenon

I am taking part in this discussion as an involved editor, not as a DRN volunteer, but only if User:Doniago chooses to participate also. The filing party is mistaken in thinking that either User:Keri or anyone else locked the page. The applicable policies are conflict of interest, neutral point of view and verifiability. The filing party is the son of the subject of the article and so has a conflict of interest and should not be directly editing the article. The filing party does have a legitimate interest in protecting his father's historical reputation from conspiracy theories about a document known as the Jaffe memo. There had been an unsourced paragraph about the Jaffe memo. After the paragraph was tagged as needing a citation for two years, User:Doniago removed the paragraph entirely.

The unsourced paragraph should not be restored because it is not verifiable. The filing party should not be editing the article directly, but may propose edits that are appropriate to maintain neutral point of view and are verifiable. Robert McClenon (talk) 23:17, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

Frederick S. Jaffe discussion

Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.

Volunteer Note

The DRN is a place for discussion and compramise, are you sure that is what you want to engage in? Or are you looking for administrator intervention? If so, you need to go to the WP:ANI. If you do want a discussion, please let me know and myself or another volunteer will begin. (Forgot to sign!!) Nightenbelle (talk) 19:54, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

Miklós Horthy

– General close. See comments for reasoning.

Filed by Fenetrejones on 04:56, 25 December 2020 (UTC).

Closed discussion

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Have you discussed this on a talk page? Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. Location of dispute Miklós Horthy (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) Users involved Fenetrejones (talk · contribs) Manfrottos (talk · contribs) KIENGIR (talk · contribs) Nigej (talk · contribs) Dispute overview This one user will not concede that Miklos Horthy and Fidesz are nationalists. He is basically using original research to justify his claims. I have. tried to look up sources for what he calls Hungarian Nationalism vs Hungarian Nationalism and I have found nothing. He is trying to segregate that category for far right and fascists, even though other categories under this umbrella are not held to that standard. If there were a far right group called Hungarian Nationalists than I can forgive it but there is no such group called that. National Conservatism is a form of nationalism, it even says so on its wikipedia page. It embraces both Conservatism and Nationalism. So by definition if you are a national conservative than you are a nationalist and a conservative. I am holding this category to the same standard as all other nationalist categories. Let us go south from Hungary for second and go to the category, Serbian nationalists. This category includes the Chetniks, the fascists, The Milosevic era politicians, the Serb Democratic Party (Bosnia and Herzegovina) which is a national Conservative party and Aleksandar Vučić who runs a conservative and populist government. Are these all the same? No. The Chetniks- The Chetniks were Royalists, however the Milosevic politicians were communists. You don't have to be a certain political orientation to be a nationalist. Or let us use Romania. There was Ion Antonescu, the fascist leader of Romania, and Nicolae Ceausescu the Communist leader of Romania, both were nationalist just had a different way of implementing it. It would be inappropriate to NOT call either one a nationalist. Just because you are not a fascist or a far right winger, doesn't mean that you aren't a nationalist. There ar things like National Communism and left wing nationalism, I don't have to love them or support them, but I have to acknowledge that they are forms of nationalism. I have credible sources like BBC and WSJ on my side.There ar things like National Communism and left wing nationalism, I don't have to love them or support them, but I have to acknowledge that they are forms of nationalism. I have credible sources like BBC and WSJ on my side. He also keeps ignoring the fact that his argument is essentially original research. How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Miklós_Horthy#Recent_edits How do you think we can help resolve the dispute? Sorting this out Summary of dispute by Manfrottos Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker. Summary of dispute by KIENGIR Repeating an already discussed discussion is useless, the user fails to understand the explanations and arguments and repeatedly implying those false assertions as presented here (as well in other pages commited problematic assertions and edits). The debate has nothing to with user's initial assertions - which are even the same way problematic -, but for what the category was meant for.(KIENGIR (talk) 05:12, 25 December 2020 (UTC)) Summary of dispute by Nigej Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker. Miklós Horthy discussion Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary. Volunteer Note - The filing editor has listed the other editors, but has not notified them. The rule that other editors should be notified of any noticeboard filings involving them applies to all Wikipedia noticeboards, and is not special to DRN. Robert McClenon (talk) 01:07, 26 December 2020 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

2020 Nagorno-Karabakh_war#Suspected_war_crimes

– Discussion in progress.

Filed by Armatura on 16:12, 25 December 2020 (UTC).

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war#Suspected war crimes (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• Armatura (talk · contribs)
• Grandmaster (talk · contribs)
• Sataralynd (talk · contribs)
• Beshogur (talk · contribs)
• Solavirum (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

Armenia and Artsakh accused Azerbaijan of using phosphorus munition against Artsakh, with France 24, The Independent and Le Point publishing supporting articles including an independent medical expertise by a French doctor. A sentence following these supporting citations by Grandmaster denies the phosphorus use by Azerbaijan and cites two Russian-language articles - one featuring Russian "expert" Murakhovsky who is known for 1) claiming that phosphorus burns at 1000 C despite 2,760 C prevailing in literature 2) being a Russian propagandist 12 3) calling for invasion of "Nazi Ukraine" 12 4) claiming that white phosphorus "is not used in modern munitions" which contradicts with the evidence of white phosphorus use in recent wars 12, 5) claiming the superiority of Turkish military UAVs is a "myth" 1 6) claiming the Ukrainain plane was not hit in Iran and some Russian and Azerbaijani "experts" whose purely theoretical arguments raise questions about their credibility.

How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?

[[1]]

How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?

1) Could uninvolved editors make a judgement whether the sentence denying the phosphorus use by Azerbaijan despite credible international publications saying the contrary has a right to stay in the article? 2) if yes, can you please make a judgement whether selectively citing the references denying phosphorus use by both Azerbaijani and Armenians only in the section about Azerbaijani war crimes but not in the section about Armenian war crimes is a fair approach to this article? Many thanks!

Summary of dispute by Grandmaster

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

Thanks for taking this for dispute resolution, however WP:RSN would probably be a more appropriate venue. In any case, let me present my argumentation. The use of white phosphorus is claimed by both sides of the conflict, but there's so far no in depth investigation by an authoritative independent organization, such as HRW and Amnesty international, whose experts previously investigated the use of cluster munitions and other violations of war conduct rules in this conflict. Reports in mass media are based on information provided by one of the sides, and cannot be considered as witness or expert account. But in any case, our role here is not to prove or disprove whether or not phosphorus was used, but to report what the notable sources say. Media reports are quoted in the article, and so are 3 military expert opinions. Military experts all say that there's no sufficient evidence to prove the use of phosphorus by either side of the conflict. Murakhovsky is only one of the 3 experts saying the same thing. He is only linked as a source in the article, for further information if anyone is interested. The main source is actually the other 2 experts, one of whom is colonel Anatoly Tsyganok, a well-known military expert in Russia, whose biography could be found on Forbes website: [2] I think our purpose is to present balanced information, and not just the claims that support a certain position. Therefore the opinions of military experts questioning the claims on phosphorus use are notable and important for objective presentation of information in the article. Also please note that those experts are neutral in this conflict, they do not take any sides, and they all say that both sides have not presented any reliable evidence that white phosphorus was used. Grandmaster 20:17, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Btw, I do not mind if expert opinions questioning the use of phosphorous are included for both Armenian and Azerbaijani allegations. I never said that they should only apply to the Armenian allegations. Grandmaster 10:17, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Sataralynd

It is true that both sides accused each other about the use of white phosphorus. However, when comparing evidence about its use by Azerbaijan with evidence about the counterclaim, namely compare wounds confirmed by Armenian and foreign doctors who are operating under hippocratic oath with finding unexploded white phosphorus munition in Tartar, Azerbaijan and claiming it as evidence that Armenia used white phosphorus, it is not unreasonable to give higher credibility to the Armenian claim than the Azerbaijani one. We know both sides have engaged in an information war during this conflict but given the first hand nature of the evidence about the Armenian claim, and the reliability of their sources (a couple of which like The Independent is particularly listed in WP:RSP as reliable in this instance) we could rate the Armenian claim with a higher credibility. In summary, we are talking about medical evidence with a high level of reliability.

Now regarding the sentence mentioned in the article

Military experts did not find evidence provided by the Armenian side to be convincing, and expressed their doubts that white phosphorus was used by either side of the conflict.

it is in fact not accurate. This is because the sources didn't engage with the medical evidence but evaluated videos and verbal claims against some of the chemical properties of phosphorus. The evidence provided about the Armenian claim is medical, and only a doctor reviewing the wounds in person should be able to question it or deem it unconvincing. Attaching this sentence to the paragraph presenting the medical evidence is not warranted.

Further, the way the statement is written as a blanket statement that gives the impression of there being a consensus among the community of military experts that there is no evidence of use of white phosphorus by Azerbaijan, which is clearly not the case, if you read the Russian sources.

Finally, there has been claims questioning the reliability of the referenced Russian sources, and I agree with the suggestion to take that to WP:RSN first.

In the final analysis, the course of action I recommend is to remove the above sentence, establish the reliability of its sources and then include a modified version that some military experts find the evidence inconclusive, and that this doesn't pertain to the medical evidence. --Sataralynd (talk) 09:13, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Beshogur

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

I am not following the original discussion but seems like the user called me because deleted one of his text, which here it states: This, however, contradicts with the reports that the Syrian government .... deployed white phosphorus munitions via airstrikes and artillery on different occasions during the Syrian Civil War., where you see that it is clearly an OR mixed with old sources. No idea about the rest of the discussion tho. Beshogur (talk) 01:06, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Solavirum

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

2020 Nagorno-Karabakh_war#Suspected_war_crimes discussion

Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.

First statement by moderator (War crimes discussion)

Please read the rules for moderated discussion. Read them again if you are not certain. Do not edit the article while discussion is in progress. Be civil and concise. Comment on content, not contributors. The purpose of discussion is to improve the article. My first question is whether this dispute is primarily about the reliability of sources. If so, we might do better to ask the reliable source noticeboard to rule on the reliability of the source. My second question is for each editor to tell as precisely as possible what they want the article to say about the focus of the dispute. If the issue has to do with the reliability of claims that white phosphorus was used, then who was reported by what source to have made that claim? Do not reply to each other, except in the section for back-and-forth discussion. The statements by editors should be addressed to me, as the representative of the community. Robert McClenon (talk) 05:22, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

First statements by editors

Indeed, the issue is about the reliability of sources, since Armatura (talk · contribs) questions that. I also think that WP:RS might be a more appropriate venue. The claims on use of phosphorus were made by both sites of the conflict, but there's no independent verification by an authoritative organization such as HRW or Amnesty international, whose experts usually do expert assessments of war conduct rule violations. However the article quotes a number of military experts who see no convincing evidence that phosphorus was used by either side of the conflict. Those experts have no connection to either side of the conflict, so they are neutral on this particular issue. Armatura questions credibility of one of them, and generally is against inclusion of skeptical views. But I think that in order to maintain WP:NPOV it is important to include all opinions, and not just those that support the narrative of the parties to the conflict. Grandmaster 10:29, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

Many thanks, Robert McClenon. It is mostly about the reliability of sources with experts denying the phosphorus use in NKR, hence I don't mind if this discussion is transferred to WP:RS, if you think it is a more suitable place, I am still learning what to discuss where. My other objection was that sentence denying the phosphorus use by both sides was for some reason put under only suspected Azerbaijani war crimes but not under suspected Armenian war crimes. I appreciate Grandmaster (talk · contribs)'s readiness to fix that, but I am still questioning the initial logic of selectively posting a seemingly neutral content to deny a war crime by Azerbaijan only. I argue that the citation 537 featuring highly controversial and unreliable "expert" Murakhovsky's claims should be deleted and it looks like Grandmaster agrees at least with that. I also question the reliability of the other reference - it is a Russian language article from Kavkaz-Uzel, that features two Russian experts who, basing their opinion purely on the appearances of the video of alleged phosphorus use by Azerbaijan, published by Armenian ombudsman, question whether it was phosphorus at all. One Russian expert - captain Vasilyh Dadikin is reported saying the video was not convincing and that it could be anything up to smoke grenades (Василий Дандыкин счел видео, опубликованное Арманом Татояном, не убедительным. "То, что там изображено, может быть чем угодно, вплоть до дымовых шашек", - сказал он.). The other Russian expert, Anatoly Tsyganok, the head of the Russian Center for Political-Military Studies is reported saying "In videos of phosphorus munition use by Israel against Gaza one can see a rocket flying, then opening and spraying phosphorus, but here we don't see it ("Известно, что фосфорные боеприпасы применял Израиль против сектора Газа. Сохранились видеосъемки: летит ракета, раскрывается и из нее сыплется фосфор. Здесь же этого нет", - указал он.). The trouble with Kavkaz-Uzel article is that 1) there was no expertise done beyond just looking at the video 2) it interviews an Azerbaijani expert Azad Isazade (who goes as far as implying that it might have been the Armenians burning their own forests to create a smoke cover - "армянским военным использовать фосфорное оружие выгодно - Это создание помех для средств воздушного нанесения ударов азербайджанской армии".) but not Armenian experts, and this raises a question about the impartiality of the authors of the article (Russia's is the 149th out of 180 countries in terms of press freedom index), 3) the article cites Azerbaijani expert saying that "Azerbaijan signed the convention on chemical warfare use, that prohibits the phosphorus munition use. ("Азербайджан подписал Конвенцию о запрещении разработки, производства, накопления и применения химического оружия и его уничтожении, которая регулирует запрет применения фосфорных боеприпасов"), however this contradicts with France24 publication which highlighted that "the use of white phosphorus is strictly regulated under an international agreement that neither Azerbaijan nor Armenia have signed", this raises a question whether Kavkaz-Uzel has vigorous editorial process at all to verify the claims in the article. What are the solutions I see? 1) One option is removing the phosphorus-use-not-used Kavkaz-uzel expert opinions at all. 2) Or, cite them under both Azerbaijani and Armenian suspected war crimes with greater attribution and clarity, like "two Russian military experts, after viewing the video evidence provided by the Armenian side, did not find it to be convincing, and expressed their doubts that white phosphorus was used by either side of the conflict". Plus, if we are citing opinions based purely on visuals, add the Atlantis Global's DRFLab's investigation based on analysis of satellite images that supports the phosphorus use. One may argue that medium.com has been highlighted as unreliable source, however Modern Diplomacy' Turkish author cites it, and I don't think Kavkaz-Uzel's article's credibility is higher than DRFLab. Armatura (talk) 17:30, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

Actually, I do not mind if it is written as "Two Russian military experts, after viewing the video evidence provided by the Armenian side, did not find it to be convincing, and expressed their doubts that white phosphorus was used by either side of the conflict". Regarding the comments on the article at Kavkaz-Uzel, the article as a whole is not used as a reference, only the opinions of military experts are referred to. We can find faults with any article, but that does not invalidate the opinions of experts quoted there. Coming to medium.com, it is a subject for another discussion. But I can briefly note that the fact that if an author of a highly partisan article at Modern Diplomacy refers to it, that does not make it a reliable source, considering that medium.com was highlighted as unreliable. Grandmaster 17:17, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Given that the experts didn't comment on the medical evidence, and they by no means constitute the majority of military experts I would suggest we add a line-break, and modify the sentence to the following:

 Some military experts did not find the video evidence provided by the Armenian side to be convincing, and expressed their doubts that white phosphorus was used by either side of the conflict.

This is as a first step until reliability is established, though I think the whole sentence should be removed until proven reliable --Sataralynd (talk) 17:00, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Second statement by moderator (war crimes discussion)

The majority of the participants in this discussion either agree with taking it to the reliable source noticeboard or are silent. So it will be taken to RSN. The editors have not stated the issue with sufficient clarity that I am ready to open a thread at RSN. Will one of the editors please either:

• Open a thread at RSN, or
• State clearly below what the issue is for RSN.

Robert McClenon (talk) 22:27, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

Back-and-forth discussion

A newbie question - would WP:RSN be appropriate for discussing the reliability of a particular article rather than the whole Kavkaz Uzel? I see issues in this particular article more than the resource as a whole. Specifically:

1. it quotes its own reporters as the source (Источник: корреспонденты "Кавказского узла"), implying that the military experts were interviewed by reporters rather than quoted from their social media posts. However, the quotes from military experts are presented without preceding questions (very weird for an interview, isn't it?), without detailed elaboration of their opinion (interview with an expert cannot start and end with ultra-laconic, raffinated "nope, doesn't look like phosphorus" statement, can it?), without addressing (as one of the editors rightly noted) the published medical expertise and also the available analysis of satellite images (DRFLab's report is widely shared, in Russian language too, and the experts must have been aware of it).
2. it quotes two Russian experts, an Azerbaijani expert, but no Armenian expert while Armenia and Azerbaijan both are accusing each other.
3. an expert is reported saying "phosphorus is unlikely to be used as it is internationally prohibited", without that logic being challenged by the fact that prohibited cluster munition were indeed used. Is this fair journalism?
4. an expert is is reported quoting that "Azerbaijan cannot have phosphorus as it signed the convention", without being challenged by international publications saying the contrary.
5. it is unclear whether the articles has gone any editorial process to address the issues above, there is not even the usual phrase whether the editors of Kavkaz-Uzel agree with / claim no relation to the statements, making the article look like a haphazardly compiled referat.

Due to the signs of unprofessional journalism above, I challenge the cited Kavkaz Uzel article's inclusion at all. Whether it requires WP:RSN or just a decision here - admins/community to kindly decide, please. If, in the end, it is decided that it can stay, then only in a form that would make crystally clear who said what based on what and not reflecting what, to avoid false generalisations. Regards, Armatura (talk) 04:10, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

I don't see any valid reason to challenge the source. The journalists are not supposed to post their own questions, it is a common practice to only publish the answers. The publication does not have to quote both Armenian and Azerbaijani experts, and that does not make it non-neutral. However they do quote the Armenian ombudsman, thus presenting the position of the Armenian side. And it is not our job to engage in original research in order to prove or disprove the statements of the experts. Our task is to present all the notable points of view, and not only the claims of the Armenian or Azerbaijani sides, or sources that support their position. The experts are perfectly neutral, they do not take any sides, and they cast doubt on claims of both sides that phosphorus was used. Also, as I wrote above, Anatoly Tsyganok, the head of the Russian Center for Political-Military Studies, is a well-known military expert in Russia, often quoted in Western media too. I understand that the opinions of the experts might be inconvenient for a certain narrative, but we are here to write the articles in an objective and balanced manner, and not to discard the sources that go contrary to the position of one or both of the sides to the conflict. In this case, the experts challenge the claims of both sides, and I see no reason why the skeptical views should not be quoted. Grandmaster 21:55, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

Forbidden Relationships in Judaism

– General close. See comments for reasoning.

Filed by Heydan Seegil on 23:25, 27 December 2020 (UTC).

Closed discussion

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Have you discussed this on a talk page? Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. Location of dispute Forbidden Relationships in Judaism (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) Users involved Heydan Seegil (talk · contribs) Debresser (talk · contribs) Dispute overview The article omitted "One's genetic relative (Leviticus 18:6) (Leviticus 18:24–28)" which was the part of my Haftorah portion. The mod for the page claimed to be a Jewish Rabbi but has made work edits on the Shabbat and during a holiday which were time stamped UTC which would mean that despite his claim of being Israeli he still made the edits during the Shabbat and again during a holiday that if he was actually a Rabbi he would have been performing a service during. They seek to remove this addition of the beginning of that Torah section along with additional supporting citation from the Talmud, Midrash, and other actual Jewish authorities. It is 100% transparent that they are not Jewish nor are they Rabbis and are legitimately omitting portions of the related Torah section to twist and contort the narrative to allow for incest and pagan worship. This paints a narrative of Judaism which is full of depravity and creates a social narrative that we Jew practice inbreeding. I can again supply the additional sources that support the prohibition against relationships from genetic relatives and the specifically cited section of the Torah literally says: "None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness.", the Hebrew reads the same but I figure it would be easier for the dispute resolver to have it in Hebrew. This was literally my Haftorah portion and as such during Hebrew school I was required to spend several hours a day learning the specifics of this one section. Spent roughly 5 years or so learning just this section and the related cases from through-out Jewish history related to relationship judgements. I am not sure about if the mod themselves are just ignorant, trolling, or actually antisemitic so I am hoping to keep this to the content of the page, but it is slanderous against Jews. How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here? Under the Incest section https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Forbidden_relationships_in_Judaism How do you think we can help resolve the dispute? Leave my edit in and find someone who is at least actually Jewish to moderate the page instead of a poser. This is how misinformation and antisemitism breed. Some non-Jew thinks they can alter and omit portions of the Torah and then they propagate that narrative as Judaism. Summary of dispute by Debresser Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker. Forbidden Relationships in Judaism discussion Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary. The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war

– General close. See comments for reasoning.

Filed by Armatura on 00:27, 28 December 2020 (UTC).

Closed discussion

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Have you discussed this on a talk page? Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. Location of dispute 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) Users involved Armatura (talk · contribs) Solavirum (talk · contribs) Vici Vidi (talk · contribs) 212.156.71.30 (talk · contribs) 37.155.240.129 (talk · contribs) Dispute overview Code-name "Operation Iron Fist" is mentioned in the opening sentence of the article, along with "2020 NK war", without any info/source for the details of that Operation available yet. There is nothing but a code-name circulated by Az. government AFTER the war. I wonder whether this is giving undue weight to a so-far-a-name-only concept that has a chance of being retrospectively coined as part of government propaganda on a military parade (the only self-referring and undetailed publication is published on 10 December, a month after the ceasefire and the reality that there is heavy propaganda from both warring sides, is a common knowledge for editors familiar with NKR topics). How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here? [3] How do you think we can help resolve the dispute? I think, while mentioning "Operation Iron Fist" somewhere in the article body (perhaps in Aftermath - the military parade paragraph) is okay pending further publications, it should not be in the very first sentence, to avoid undue weight to a so-far-a-name-only concept. Interested in uninvolved editors' opinions, please. P.S. 212.156.71.30 and 37.155.240.129 are claimed by the same person, hence a summary from either IP should do. Summary of dispute by Solavirum Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker. Summary of dispute by Vici Vidi Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker. Summary of dispute by 212.156.71.30 Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker. Summary of dispute by 37.155.240.129 Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker. 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war discussion Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary. The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Dunoon

– New discussion.

Filed by Seasider53 on 01:48, 30 December 2020 (UTC).

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Dunoon (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• Seasider53 (talk · contribs)
• Scope creep (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

A "Climate" section that is inside a "Geography" section at the top of other, more prominent articles I've checked is being moved to the bottom of the article because an editor doesn't like a "gap" that is appearing because of i) the infobox's placement and ii) a table appearing in the offending section. What's more, the user keeps adding it as a subsection of the "gallery" section, which makes no sense.

How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?

Talk:Dunoon

How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?

Provide input on what the correct article structure should be.

Summary of dispute by Scope creep

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

Dunoon discussion

Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.

• Volunteer Question - Is this a request for moderated discussion leading to compromise, for a Third Opinion, or for a Request for Comments which will obtain opinions from the community? Robert McClenon (talk) 07:11, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
• Comment Have you considered a "Geography and climate" section? Achar Sva (talk) 09:14, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
  • @Robert McClenon: I think an RfC would be the best option. The obstacle appears to be that an editor doesn't understand how articles appear formatting-wise when boxes (infobox or informational) are involved and, instead, is just moving the section to the bottom of the article, when it's probably the most important section of the article. He/she thinks I'm responsible for the small whitespace gap that appeared below the "climate" section here - Seasider53 (talk) 12:55, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
  • @Achar Sva: I was following the example of both the Edinburgh and Glasgow articles, which have Climate in the Geography section. I see no reason to deviate from that. - Seasider53 (talk) 12:55, 30 December 2020 (UTC)