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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Lowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs) at 16:25, 23 June 2024 (Archiving 2 discussion(s) to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Archive 175) (bot). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

New Articles (May 20 to May 26)

Main page: Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/New article announcements
 A listing of all articles newly added to the Video Games Wikiproject (regardless of creation date). Generated by v3.20 of the RecentVGArticles script and posted by PresN. Bug reports and feature requests are appreciated. --PresN 15:55, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

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  • None
{{PCGamingWiki}} seems strange to have, no? It reminded me of the AfD on the GameFAQs template. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 16:38, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But at the same time we still have {{MobyGames}} & co. IceWelder [✉] 22:24, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The WP:WHATABOUTX (or even "WP:ALLORNOTHING") about MobyGames also came up in that discussion. Does linking to a page on PCGamingWiki mean the reader gets a greater understanding of the subject? Their wiki onBioShock Infinite for instance is great if you want to skip the introduction video, add a Turkish fan translation or disable lens flare effects, but how does that help the general reader? soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 08:45, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
AfD'ed. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 08:50, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reminder: avoid creating articles on newly announced games simply based on announcement

with Not-E3 starting today with the Summer Game Fest kickoff, a reminder that just because a game is announced doesn't mean we should be rushing to create an article on it. Unless you can include a fair amount of aspects like development from reliable sources, it is better to create redirects from these games to series pages, an existing game that it is tied to, or to individual studios if a new IP. — Masem (t) 12:56, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Sergecross73 msg me 13:11, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, if you can only write one paragraph on a new game that gets announced, wait. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:11, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Case in point... soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 17:46, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'd actually tend to disagree with creating the article right away, since it's going to happen regardless in the future, but I'm instead against making them for a different reason: none of us regulars make these articles, so it's usually someone new and inexperienced who just wants to hit the "first" button. Because of this these articles are of such horrible quality and formatting, and the ratio of mistakes to actual info is so bad that's it's better to just blow it up and try again later. Panini! • 🥪 23:01, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

New Articles (June 3 to June 9)

Main page: Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/New article announcements
 A listing of all articles newly added to the Video Games Wikiproject (regardless of creation date). Generated by v3.20 of the RecentVGArticles script and posted by PresN. Bug reports and feature requests are appreciated. --PresN 16:07, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

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Was not expecting to see a game called The Wizard Sniffer on the list. (or ever) QuicoleJR (talk) 16:33, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And maybe you (we) shouldn't have either? I've never heard of it before, but the sourcing in the article doesn't make a very strong case for notability at least... Sergecross73 msg me 18:03, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think something similar to what Draft:Lore Game probably was could actually be a good idea. All those indie horror games have those deeper storylines and ARGs that have recently become merchandise and marketing traps, and because of it the concept may have received some significant coverage. Panini! • 🥪 23:04, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Until it could be expanded significantly, I would add a subgenre section on "Liminal spaces" to Horror game using this as a source https://www.gamedeveloper.com/design/backrooms-liminal-spaces-and-the-subliminal-menace-of-loneliness-in-indie-horror-games and identifying games like the Backrooms and Exit 8 as leading examples of these. Masem (t) 23:10, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of shipping content on Marianne von Edmund

Moved from Talk:Marianne von Edmund § Removal of shipping content

There is a topic on Marianne von Edmund regarding removal of shipping content, The discussion become slightly heated and I am moving the discussion to the project's page so that more opinion will be placed and the hopefully the dispute will be resolved. Warm Regards, Miminity (talk) (contribs) 05:33, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

From my view just popping into this, the canonicity of something shouldn't be a deciding factor in removing information. As long as it's backed up by reliable sources it should be fine to include. Harryhenry1 (talk) 05:39, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It seems to be back by a reliable source. It should be okay to include. Not everything needs to be considered "canon" in order to be included. (Oinkers42) (talk) 14:43, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aiden Pearce

Need opinions for a clear consensus. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 06:09, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Demos

I guess this is as good a time to bring it up as any. Sometimes I find fairly detailed articles in reliable sources that discuss a released game, but the very last line of the article is something like "I hope the final version is as fun as this demo that I just played." And I do a facepalm because I just wasted all that time reading an article about a demo. But it is coverage, so maybe it counts toward establishing notability? NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 02:55, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see why it wouldn't count towards GNG, as a demo is almost always pretty heavily representative of the final game. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 05:46, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, no reason at all why it wouldn't both be suitable for GNG purposes, and also for being cited for gameplay and the like. All GNG requires is in-depth coverage of the subject. An in-depth article about a game soon to come out is also suitable for GNG. There's no reason why we can't attribute information to an article that talks about only a part of the full game. Heck, if we required all reviews to have played the full game, we wouldn't have many citations at all. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 07:46, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe it's because I'm a programmer, but I don't think using demos to describe the gameplay of a released game is such a good idea. A demo is not "part of the full game", it's an entirely different product. It's a pain in the ass to maintain two different code bases, which is why some demos are removed from distribution. If the demo is still available, maybe. But if it has been deleted because it's so out of date that it's no longer representative of the game, no. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 14:07, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I was suggesting to use common sense. There's plenty of demos that are simply parts of the main game. There's obviously some demos that contain things that aren't in the main title, but in most cases it's mostly the same stuff.
Obviously, if the gameplay does vary significantly from what's in a demo review, then it's not suitable. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 15:04, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Definitely establishes notability. I think as long as proper context is given - the Wikipedia prose establishing that it about a demo in some capacity - you're good to go. Sergecross73 msg me 15:10, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Previews can establish notability like reviews or other coverage. Sometimes the writer hasn't even played the game, for example in behind closed doors presentations. --Mika1h (talk) 18:16, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Good article reassessment/Afd for Haytham Kenway

A good article Haytham Kenway has been nominated for deletion. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the AfD page. Thank you. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 06:48, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Request for feedback at Naming conventions

Hello, I hope this is allowed or the right place for it. I would like to request some feedback in a section in Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (video games). The discussion regards a rule/guide in the Naming conventions page's Disambiguation section that seems to be inconsistently followed. I wasn't sure if it was something worth looking into fixing or if there was a reason for the discrepancy. Thanks! Ringtail Raider (talk) 16:16, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge proposal for Neo Geo Pocket/Color

I propose merging Neo Geo Pocket Color with Neo Geo Pocket (mono). I attempted to find more information on Neo Geo Pocket (mono) to see if it was notable on its own, but I couldn't find much. It only existed for one year, released 9 titles, and was immediately replaced by its color version. On top of that, only released in Japan and Hong Kong apparently. it reminds me of the WonderSwan where both the mono and the color version are under one article.Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 13:50, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

bumpBlue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 13:49, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think the best course of action is to be bold. If anyone objects, I'm happy to discuss it further.Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 17:41, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I support it. The mono is pretty short as is. Sergecross73 msg me 18:25, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

New Articles (June 10 to June 16)

Main page: Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/New article announcements
 A listing of all articles newly added to the Video Games Wikiproject (regardless of creation date). Generated by v3.20 of the RecentVGArticles script and posted by PresN. Bug reports and feature requests are appreciated. --PresN 14:48, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

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Infobox question

Hi, quick question. I recently ran into an infobox issue on Shin Megami Tensei V (which I'm planning on doing an expansion/future GAN on) relating to the user XeronTokyo. It started with a disagreement about Hiroshi Sasazu's status as an artist rather than a game designer (credits don't make clear), and now onto the large number of writers added in with the release of the Vengeance version. Putting aside what I think about the user's habit of adding in what I would count as excessive or inaccurate staff information to infoboxes, what is the sensible limit for how many staff to include? I was teetering towards an edit war situation, and I'd like some solid Wikipedia policy to fall back on. ProtoDrake (talk) 13:17, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Infobox video game has a guide for different credit fields. --Mika1h (talk) 13:29, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE also outlines that they should be used similar to how we write a WP:LEAD - we should generally only be including items in the infobox that are covered further later in the article body. So that could be used to help trim some items too, hypothetically. Might get some pushback though, like I do when I enforce it, because I don't think our content area always does so well in following this guidance.) Sergecross73 msg me 13:50, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Usually we try to limit to just the lead staff of that field, ideally around three or so. In Shin Megami Tensei V's case, I'd argue against adding any enhanced edition staff, which just bloats up the infobox, and adding them in prose if notable/relevant. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 13:52, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Opinions on notability of Free Fire (video game)

This article gets a great deal of traffic, but I happened to notice that most of the sources are either unreliable or trivial. I am having serious trouble finding anything that would show it passed GNG in the slightest. Since it appears to be so major, I am looking for a second opinion as to whether it is notable, especially as it was made under dubious circumstances (the original creator is blocked). ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 19:21, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The article is a mess, but I see focused sustained coverage by reliable sources already in use, including (just going down the list): Straits Times (a newspaper), Sensor Tower (an accepted source on mobile statistics), Pocket Gamer, GameSpot, IGN (numerous editions), Dot Esports (not my favorite source but we accept it as reliable), Game Pressure, Esports Insider, all the usual Valnet suspects, News 18 (newspaper), Yahoo, ANN, The Verge, TechCrunch (an inconclusive). Notably, I didn't list the multiple Indian newspapers, as some of them are under active discussion as generally unreliable, such as the Times of India, but they are all present. There's nothing dubious about the creation: The editor was blocked years later for unrelated concerns. -- ferret (talk) 19:33, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The article definitely needs a lot of cleanup, and it may or may not have a tainted edit history needing WP:TNT, but the article topic itself is so far beyond the notability threshold that it's almost absurd to see someone questioning it. Literally the most downloaded game for years straight, in the top DAU along with Roblox, it's one of, if not the, most played game on the planet, with endless sources in English and otherwise. Sources like https://www.gamesindustry.biz/how-garena-free-fire-plans-to-stand-out-from-the-battle-royale-crowd almsot single-handedly cover any notability concerns. Ben · Salvidrim! ✉ 20:27, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Well, that's... kinda why I asked. I figured it was notable, I just couldn't pinpoint the sources. I guess that's what I get for having the gall to ask a simple question... ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 20:51, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Was going to say, you could have used WP:AFD instead, only to realise it would almost certainly result in a (speedy/snow) keep. It would have been funny to see like 10 keeps and 0 deletes. JuniperChill (talk) 21:01, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    To be honest Zxcvbnm, what reads as a "simple question" from a new editor who may not be able to tell what sources are reliable reads very differently coming from someone who has been here for a decade, and one who frequently creates and defends articles on marginally-notable subjects. Specifically, it reads as low-key confusing. --PresN 21:54, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    You may assume it is super obvious, but even a small look into the sources reveals most are not significant coverage. For example, the aforementioned Straits Times article is about an esports event concerning the game, not the game itself, while Sensor Tower's mention is fairly trivial. Pocket Gamer is also completely trivial, while GameSpot is a mere announcement. Ferret mentioned the fact that the sites are reliable but not the idea that the game has actual SIGCOV necessary for GNG, which is the main reason I posed this question. Dismissing it offhand because the game is popular or reliable sources exist in the article (regardless of their content) is not super helpful. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 09:10, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Sounds like it would be an in-depth project just to start an AfD discussion with a detailed analysis of why the sources given do not establish full WP:N. I would respect such an effort. I don't WT:VG can really help much though; on first glance the sources look fine. Do you want someone else to compile the detailed analysis for you? Note that you can start an AfD even if you aren't entirely certain yet. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 09:20, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Oh, I'll add: dedicated reviews are not a requirement for a work to have an article dedicated to it. Free media doesn't really require reviews in the same way that paid products do, and therefore might not be subject to reviews as such. This is something to keep in mind when trying to argue notability. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 09:25, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yeah, I feel like I will have to do a full source-analysis, was just wondering if people could discover some obvious sources I wasn't seeing. But with the response being "well duuy! They're right there!" It seems it may be necessary, lol. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 15:30, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal for an alternate approach to splitting platform-based video game lists

As it stands, certain platform-based video game lists (ex. List of PlayStation games (A–L), List of Nintendo DS games (0–C)) are overwhelmingly large, and the alphabet-based method of dividing them seems arbitrary in where exactly the splits are made. Over at the Japanese Wiki, I've noticed that their video game lists for the most prolific platforms are divided by year rather than alphabetically, which from my point of view seems more efficient; apart from divisions by release year being more objective, each of the lists for, example, the PlayStation number in the few hundreds, which is a sufficient size without being either scant or daunting. I figured I'd run this approach by the Project and hopefully put it into consideration as a potential method of overhauling these lists for the sake of making them more manageable. Cat's Tuxedo (talk) 04:16, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure if it's "more objective" persay, since release years can be confusing if they can differ by years. Someone who's sure that a DS game came out in 2006, for example, would be confused that it's not in there, since they don't know it was originally released in 2005. Harryhenry1 (talk) 04:42, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Another thing to point out is that Japanese games typically get a earlier release in Japan than in other regions. For example, Final Fantasy XIII came out in 2009 in Japan but wouldn't see a worldwide release until 2010. That might get a little confusing. Famous Hobo (talk) 05:17, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, some games have different release years depending on the region and that would get really confusing really quickly. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:09, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In-game dialogue as a source

I used a lot of tutorial dialogue to source gameplay elements in the Spark the Electric Jester and Spark the Electric Jester 2 articles. I did this after looking at the Sonic After the Sequel article and figured it was fine; it didn't seem to be a problem in the GA nomination process for both articles either. I don't see much difference between citing something like an in-game tutorial and an instruction manual, but I rarely see articles do the former so I'm wondering if this is problematic. Although the games are lean on coverage I could definitely rewrite the gameplay sections for both to omit details sourced from the dialogue. To be honest I feel like these games only borderline meet notability so I'm admittedly worried about drawing attention to this, but I'd rather rip that bandage off now. I just wanna be sure what the future of these articles will be and if they're problematic in any way. LBWP (talk) 01:24, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Based on the current sources, I'd agree with the assessment of both being borderline. We've deleted plenty of articles before with only a couple SIGCOV in reliable sources and those don't seem much different. They're both at extreme risk of deletion, IMO.
Sourcing things to ingame dialog isn't technically bad, but if you have to do it for the gameplay, it usually means that the significant coverage needed to fully flesh out the article doesn't exist. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 01:45, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I didn't necessarily have to do it for the gameplay, but I wanted to describe it greater detail so I went with the in-game refs. I've played around with omitting details sourced from the games in sandbox and they could definitely still exist, I just wouldn't be able to describe some specific attacks or mechanics. You'd still be getting a satisfactory outline of the gameplay, and I'd be willing to implement those changes in the articles if enough people had a problem with it. Regardless, I'll stick exclusively to secondary sources for a Spark the Electric Jester 3 article. That's apparently coming to Switch soon so game journalists will finally be forced to pay attention to this series lmfao. LBWP (talk) 18:09, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  1. https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/spark-the-electric-jester-is-more-than-mere-homage
  2. https://hardcoregamer.com/previews/spark-the-electric-jester-is-a-shockingly-fine-platformer/160521/
  3. https://www.siliconera.com/genesis-style-platformer-spark-the-electric-jester-should-be-out-early-2016/
A lot of the time when seeing if something meets the WP:GNG, someone will ask you for your best WP:THREE examples. I believe this lineup would probably keep you from getting the article deleted if anyone ever tried... Sergecross73 msg me 18:26, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The last one, from Siliconera, I would argue is not SIGCOV. It's simply an announcement listing the game's devteam, there's no analysis or critique there. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 18:30, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's an RS writing an article dedicated entirely to the subject. To each their own, but I've saved articles at AFD with less. Sergecross73 msg me 18:34, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Article rejected based on sources

Please see below: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Goodboy_Galaxy

How is NintendoLife for example not a reliable secondary source in regards to video games? Oz346 (talk) 12:57, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure I particularly agree with that rejection, but it's not exactly a home run either. There's very little content and only a handful of reliable sources. Nintendo life is reliable, but barely and not exactly high quality. Eurogamer and Time Extension are both reliable sources, but the articles are pretty brief. Sergecross73 msg me 13:09, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nintendo Life is listed as a reliable source at WP:VG/S. Vacant0 (talk) 13:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The same goes for TechRadar, EuroGamer and Time Extension. Vacant0 (talk) 13:13, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nintendo Life is a reliable source but Time Extension review is the only one I'd call significant coverage, others are just short announcements. Retro101 is not a reliable source. --Mika1h (talk) 13:16, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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