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October 31

Sources of entertainment

Why is the vast majority of entertainment made in the US, the UK, or Japan? --128.42.221.117 (talk) 07:04, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

The premise your question is based on is faulty. Every country creates entertainment. What you are observing is that the entertainment of certain countries crosses borders ("cultural exports") more readily than others. A better question would be "Why is (some country's) entertainment popular elsewhere?" The Masked Booby (talk) 07:40, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

I guess your question really meant "why is the vast majority of entertainment I watch ..." There is a big wide world outside of Texas, for example, 1.3 billion people live in India, that's about 4 times the US population. Now check Indian culture there are film and TV sections. Richard Avery (talk) 08:32, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

According to these statistics India leads in films, with the US second. Countries like US and Japan are pretty high on films per capita though, compared to, say, China and Africa. In order to produce broadcast entertainment you first need to have your basic needs taken care of - food, shelter, clothing. Which makes more productive countries more likely to afford spending time creating luxuries like recorded entertainment. Can't have much of a movie and music industry if the population is in subsistence farming. On the other hand you may be able to hedge this if you can export your entertainment products, language and culture barriers allowing. 88.112.36.91 (talk) 12:19, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

I don't see the number of films as being a very useful measure. Total receipts is a better indicator of popularity. StuRat (talk) 18:27, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

The OP is clearly wrong, but so is the answer of 88.112... There is plenty of entertainment (i.e. music, movies, tv-series, etc.) outside the US, UK and Japan, but patterns of exportation and consumption differ widely. Americans tend to consume US-produced popular culture, in the rest of the Western world US cultural exports are a heavy chunk of media consumption. To say that the degree of wealth determines media production is faulty, many third world countries have far more vibrant movie and music industries than some countries in Europe. Actually, maintaining a movie industry in northern Europe is extremely expensive (paying actors and other employees) and the movie industries like that of Sweden survive only on hefty state subsidies.

Nollywood in Nigeria on the other hand produces more than 2,000 movies per year, and is exported across Africa and to African diasporas, without (to my knowledge) a single dollar from the Nigerian state coffer (correction: the Nigerian president apparently plegded 200 million USD for development of Nollywood. However, this only in 2010 when Nollywood was well established as an international phenomenon). Moreover, these productions are exported across regional networks without passing through the US. Inspired by the Nigerian success story, there is more an more media production emerging in neighbouring countries as well (apparently there is a Ghanian version of Sex and the City...). Chinese movie industry is very heavy in Asian markets, as is Indian in South Asia and the greater Middle East. In the Arab World, Egypt is dominating in movie whilst Syria is spearheading soap opera productions in Arabic. Latin American soap operas are dubbed to a variety of languages, and find broad fan-bases in places like Russia and Africa. --Soman (talk) 15:01, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

The reason for the success of the US film industry is historical. At the time when movies were first catching on, it was easier to make them in the US, since there was plenty of open land, basically any landscape you could want, and lots of money and actors available. Thomas Edison was also a major contributor to film technology, giving the US a head start. StuRat (talk) 18:27, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

A huge home market probably had a larger influence than landscapes. Very many movies were filmed mostly indoors, with props and sets. "Filmed on location" was a quality marker for more expensive movies. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 20:08, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Well, China has a much larger potential market, but lacked some of the other ingredients I mentioned. Another factor is English speaking people having the disposable income and spare time to watch movies. China has both multiple languages and historically a lack of disposable income. And movie studios take up quite a bit of room, even when filming inside. If you had to tear down other buildings to make room for them, that would make them quite a bit more expensive to start up. StuRat (talk) 20:12, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

China historically did not have a larger market. It had more customers, but less disposable money to be spend on movies. And indeed, during much of the early area of the movie industry, it had more-or-less continuous wars, civil and otherwise, followed by the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution, both not environments prone to create stable markets. Yes, studios have large buildings, but they need not be build in premium locations, so the cost of the actual real estate is not that significant. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 20:28, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

I suppose that depends on what you call "premium". They need electricity, water, sewers, etc., so can't be built out in the middle of nowhere. They also rely on a large labor supply, so need to be near a populated area (they can afford to fly the stars and director around the world, but flying the entire crew and all the extras around starts to get prohibitively expensive). StuRat (talk) 20:31, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

International manga sales

Which countries outside Japan have the largest sales of manga? --168.7.232.13 (talk) 07:45, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

WP:WHAAOE. The article suggests the US, Canada, France and Germany are the key export markets for Manga. And the link to 'Manga outside Japan' there has a fairly comprehensive list of everywhere there is a noticeable presence. 86.163.43.112 (talk) 08:18, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

I don't think those articles give a very good overview of the overall situation; they just focus on the countries editors are more familiar with. Japanese manga is hugely popular in East Asian markets like China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Korea etc - definitely more than the US or most parts of Europe - but they're hardly mentioned in either of those articles. In terms of total units sold, I'd be surprised if the country with the most sales wasn't China, just because it's population is so much bigger than the other main candidates 59.108.42.46 (talk) 06:57, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps this will help. EEng (talk) 06:17, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

fees & charges for different courses in NUJS, Salt Lake, West Bengal

please provide information regarding the fees & other charges required for different courses in the National University of Juridical Sciences, Salt Lake, West BengalSnigthakur (talk) 08:08, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Wouldn't you do better to contact them directly ? Here's their contact page: [1]. If, for some reason, they refuse to disclose their fee structure, they also have a page dealing with Freedom of Information Act requests, here: [2]. You can also look through their website to find prices for various courses of study, like this: [3]. StuRat (talk) 18:15, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Paramount Theatre Brooklyn

> Re: The information below from Wikipedia about the "Paramount" Theater in Brooklyn. > > I am wondering whether any information goes back earlier than what is in the presented information. The reason I ask is, for many years as I grew up, I was told that my grandfather opened the first theater in Brooklyn. My relative owned a bar, a package liquor store, a shoe store, several multi-family apartment buildings, opened a theater (about which my father spoke-he was a young man at the time), and other interests before his (grandfather's) empire collapsed. > > Let me know whether any of this jibes with the Paramount History. > > Regards, > > Mike Dalton > (family came from Brooklyn) > Florida — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.238.172 (talk) 12:30, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Wood Stove

I have an older wood stove . Tha name stamped on the door is ( Seven Valley Stove Works ) Old Number 7---I would like to learn more about it. Thanks Bob — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.186.171.244 (talk) 13:42, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

If that's the Seven Valley Stove Works that was based in Missouri, it looks like they closed down in 1978. Did you want to know something specific?--Shantavira|^{feed me} 14:26, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

This may be the source of Shantavira's information. It says that the company was in operation for 35 years and 9 months, which would give a start date of April 1947, if I've done the maths right. Alansplodge (talk) 17:46, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

However, this directory page says it was formed in 1978. If so, that would give an end date of October 2003. This makes a bit more sense, as a small company dissolved in the 1970s is unlikely to have an entry on an internet business directory. Alansplodge (talk) 18:00, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

How do I top up New York City metrocards if the subways are closed?

I need to use a metrocard to get the free transfers on busses. Where can I top up my metrocard? Do the stores that sell them top them up also? 128.143.174.127 (talk) 15:28, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Normally, this information (locations of MetroCard machines and how to add money to them) is availible at http://www.mta.info/metrocard/ However, every page at that website has been replaced by storm-related news, and I can't find any other information right now. Keep checking back with that website, perhaps they'll soon put the old site back up. --Jayron32 17:36, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Our article on the MetroCard seems to indicate that private merchants only sell pre-loaded Metrocards in set denominations; I don't think they can reload a card for you. That said, is there any reason why you wouldn't be able to buy one of those pre-loaded cards and use it for your bus trips (including any necessary transfers) until the floodwaters recede? Once the subway stations reopen, you can consolidate any leftover value on to a single card at any token both: [4]. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 17:52, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

The only reason you'd need to top up a card is if it's empty. Just buy a new card instead from a private merchant. Or am I missing something? If the concern is recycling you can hold onto the card or slip it in the recycling slot at a station later. Some bus route stops like those along Fordham Avenue and at the 207th St Bus stop on the A Train line also have external card vendors available, but I don't know if they will recharge an old card or not. μηδείς (talk) 18:55, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Why would you buy a card from a private merchant? Is the MTA giving away cards for less than they sell them in the subway? Seems like an opportunity to be scammed, but maybe I'm ignorant of some private sellers of MTA cards. While on the topic, you can actually combine old MTA cards together if you find a friendly person in the booth who's willing to do it, or alternatively, you can calculate exactly the right amount to put onto a card to make it divisible by the $2.25 (right?) subway fare so you don't have a few cents left over on a card. Shadowjams (talk) 20:53, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

We're getting away from the original question, but foreseeably one might wish to buy a Metrocard from a private merchant just for convenience. Instead of queuing up twice, and having to deal with two separate transactions, and possibly having to pay two separate transaction fees, you can buy a Metrocard and a jug of milk at the same time at the convenience store. You also don't have to worry about finding one of the large Metrocard vending machines if you want to pay with cash instead of using credit/debit (and you don't have to worry about having a perfectly pristine, uncreased, mint-condition banknote to feed to the vending machine). And of course it does provide a way for MTA users to get hold of Metrocards even when the subway system is closed.... TenOfAllTrades(talk) 21:36, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Cards are usually available in small licensed magazine stands and convenience stores. They are sold pre-packaged, not loose. I have never heard of any "scam". μηδείς (talk) 22:43, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

I don't know anything about the MTA card system but it sounds like Shadowjams may be confused about how private merchant sales of MTA cards work. I presume as with most similar systems throughout the world (both prepay systems for transport and prepay systems for other things like phones or even gift cards), the operator sells them to the vendor at a slightly lower price then the face value. The vendor is contractually obliged to sell them at the face value (or at least not above the face value). The vendor may not make much of a profit, but it's still a profit and it's something that's low overhead, small and low risk and also encourages patronage so many vendors are willing to sell them. This means there's usually no difference between whether you buy them at a private merchant or direct in terms of the direct cost to you (obviously there's a difference in where the profit goes to). I think Shadowjams is confused on this point and believes if you buy them from a private merchant you're likely to be paying more then if you buy them direct. (Occasionally with some systems you may get free reloads when dealing direct but not with private merchants but usually not for any prepaid card purchases themselves.) Nil Einne (talk) 11:44, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm not confused, and seeing that you know nothing about the MTA system, I find that statement interesting; you can pay cash, credit, debit, whatever you want at all the kiosks in the subway. The lines are almost always non existent, and even during rush hour they're really short. I don't know if the MTA offers private sales... I guess they might? Seems strangely unnecessary though, unless they offer discounts. You've apparently said nothing specific to the MTA system, but correct me if I'm wrong. If they do things differently in New Zealand that's fine, but we're talking about a specific system here. Shadowjams (talk) 04:43, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

MTA / NYCTA Buses (including express routes) are free until further notice. Per http://www.mta.info/, "All bus and subway service will operate on a fare-free basis Thursday and Friday." Nricardo (talk) 02:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Gasoline into a Diesel engine or vice versa?

There's a new phone operator advertisement campaign going on here in Finland, depicting humorous text message exchanges in the advertisements. One of them goes:

• Which kind of gasoline does our car take?
• It's a Diesel!
• I wasn't asking about its brand but what kind of gasoline it takes. Anyway I put in 98-octane just to be sure.
• No! Don't start it!

Now I'm not very technical when it comes to cars. What happens if you put gasoline into a Diesel engine or vice versa? JIP | Talk 19:40, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

The most important difference is that diesel fuel is a lot thicker, and a fuel supply system designed for one won't handle the other. Also the fuels won't ignite at the right time. The result is that in either case the engine will quickly stop running and is likely to do serious damage to sensitive parts such as fuel injectors. Looie496 (talk) 20:27, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Apart from the viscosity, diesel is an oil and a lubricant whereas Gasoline (petrol) is a solvent. Diesel engines are designed to make use of the lubricant properties of diesel, and they ignite the fuel using compression. Petrol engines ignite their fuel vapour using a spark from a spark plug, and are lubricated with engine oil. Running a diesel engine on petrol will damage parts like the fuel pump because the solvent removes the lubricant. Metal debris from the damage then circulates with the fuel and causes further damage. The different ignition systems mean that neither fuel will burn correctly in the wrong engine, potentially causing damage to the engine itself and to elements like the catalytic converter in modern cars. In a petrol engine, the unburned diesel may get past the piston rings into the petrol engine's oil system, contaminating and overloading it. Seals and gaskets may also be damaged in both engines if exposed to substances they are not designed to resist. To sum up: the wrong fuel will cause the engine to run very badly or not at all and may cause mechanical damage. There's a little information here from the UK's AA motoring association, but there's plenty more out there to read. - Karenjc 20:39, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

As above, but apart from their similarity in having reciprocating pistons, they're fundamentally different engines. Gasoline engines are Otto cycle engines which uses modest compression and spark ignition, requiring a relatively light, volatile fuel. Diesel engines are compression-ignition engines that ignite a relatively heavy, non-volatile fuel purely through extreme compression. They are fundamentally incapable of using each others' fuels in any meaningful way for more than a few moments. Putting gasoline into a modern diesel engine will destroy the fuel system. Putting diesel into a gasoline engine will be marginally less destructive, but either way it'll cause expensive repairs, and isn't covered under warranty.Acroterion (talk) 21:07, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

This is correct for normal engines in consumer cars. But it is possible to build Diesel engines that can run on essentially anything that has low enough viscosity to get into the cylinder (and that includes stuff that needs to be pre-heated to flow) and will provide enough energy - see Diesel engine#Fuel_and_fluid_characteristics. I've heard claims that the engine of a Leopard II tank can run on melted margarine, although I wouldn't go quite so far. On the other extreme, some Diesel engines can run on alcohol or even wood gas. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 10:48, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Yes, in principal diesel engines are less fussy about their fuel, but in practice they're, if anything, more so in most vehicles. Acroterion (talk) 15:32, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

I recently had an old Peugeot hatchback and in a bit of a rush in a dimly lit garage, put unleaded petrol in the tank instead of diesel. Being in a hurry, I took a chance and poured a similar amount of diesel on top and hoped for the best. It ran very lumpily and was reluctant to start for the next few days but eventually returned to normal. Several friends told stories about having injectors replaced, or in the case of a Land Rover Discovery, a complete engine rebuild, after similar mistakes. A few weeks later, the head gasket failed in spectacular fashion putting it beyond economic repair - I'm not sure if this was connected to the fuel error, but I suspect that the advice given above; "Don't start it!" is almost certainly correct. Alansplodge (talk) 17:25, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Hurricane Sandy roof repairs

Hurricane Sandy roof damage to my house.

Is the missing piece called roof flashing ? And, is this the type of thing which needs to be repaired immediately, or could it wait until spring ? (I'm guessing immediate repairs are needed). StuRat (talk) 22:03, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

It's aluminum rake trim, probably not very vital, though a wind-driven rain could get behind the exposed top of the siding and go who knows where, particularly if you don't have building paper behind the siding or if the base flashing at the lower roof isn't installed right. It ought to be fixed, but it's not extremely pressing (at least until the leak announces itself). Acroterion (talk) 22:29, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Yes, according to the engineer I just called, it is called flashing and it is important to fix before the winter season for the reason noted above. I don't think putting it off is worth the hassle you'll have when it becomes a problem, which it eventually will. μηδείς (talk) 22:40, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Well, given the current demand for repair services, putting it off for at least a couple of weeks might be reasonable. Looie496 (talk) 15:13, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

The main issue I see is that once deprived of the support afforded by the rake trim, the top bit of siding (which is hard to fasten and usually poorly supported) will want to fall off, followed by the rest. It looks like this was a re-siding job over some other substrate, so it's anybody's guess whether the base flashing (where the gable meets the roof) is properly installed to direct leakage back out. Acroterion (talk) 15:30, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

I had assumed StuRat wanted to delay because he didn't want to get up there himself. But yes, we probably shouldn't be hit by such a big storm again soon, and certainly not without warning. Checking here regularly will help. μηδείς (talk) 16:41, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm not an expert, but I'd assume snow getting in there could be an issue. Plus insurance might not cover it if you wait too long (that part is purely speculative) Hot Stop (Edits) 23:26, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

• Round 2? Forecasters predict nor'easter may hit East Coast election day μηδείς (talk) 15:57, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Not forgetting the 70 people who died in 5 Caribbean nations before it ever reached the US. We don't seem to hear much about them, or the destruction their communities have been left to repair. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 23:10, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Sadly, that's because there's nothing unusual about hurricanes doing that in the Caribbean. StuRat (talk) 23:16, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

There's nothing unusual about twisters causing (death and) destruction in the mid west every year, but we sure hear a lot about them. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 23:31, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Twisters that kill a person or two are quite rare, and only those extremely rare outbreaks that kill many more than that make it beyond local headlines, Jack. Take it from someone who's been within sight of half a dozen, had a shed blown 1,000 ft by one, and been in a car rocked near tipping by another. μηδείς (talk) 00:33, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

UST party

On my absentee ballot there was (UST) after some candidate's names where party affiliation such as (rep)republican or (dem)democrat appeared for other candidates. What does UST stand for? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Grnmtnpr (talk • contribs) 23:25, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

The U.S. Taxpayers Party of Michigan, assuming you're in Michigan. Marnanel (talk) 23:34, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

November 1

Lloyds bank Cambridge

I would like to describe the Lloyds bank building on Sidney St, Cambridge, England and am looking for some help with architectural terms. I understand the exterior is in the Dutch Renaissance style with Dutch gables and brick bandings in limestone. Any suggestions on how to describe the clock tower? The interior is very elaborate with cornicing and a domed roof. Does anyone know the name for this type of cornicing? How would you describe the glass which is in sections that look vaguely scalloped? I have described the panels as "coffers". Is this term appropriate? 212.183.140.24 (talk) 20:05, 1 November 2012 (UTC) If you are an expert in this type of architecture, please help. I would love to hear from you.

I don't know much about architecture, but here is an image of the bank for those who don't know what it looks like. [5] ⋘HueSatLum ? ❢⋙ 00:48, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

The description with HueSatLum's image seems to answer at least some of the OP's question. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:54, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Yes, that's great. Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.138.87.251 (talk) 10:29, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Even more architectural gobbledegook in the Listed Building Citation at British Listed Buildings - Lloyd's Bank, Cambridge. Alansplodge (talk) 17:15, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Apologies, it appears to be the SAME gobbledegook! Alansplodge (talk) 17:19, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, there's a handy extra bit about the statue though I'm now uncertain as to whether the clock tower is hexagonal or octagonal as the sources are contradictory. Anybody on the ground there who could have a look?212.183.128.22 (talk) 17:30, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

WP:WHAAOE just about applies here - there's a photo of the clock tower and a short description at List of commercial buildings by Alfred Waterhouse. See also here and here. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 11:49, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

November 2

airline canada Saudi Arabia and Arab gulf nations

Which airline(s) should I take when I visit Riyadh, Saudi Arabia from Pearson International Airport? Then, which airline(s) should I take when I go to Manama, Bahrain from Riyadh? Which airline(s) should I take when I go to Kuwait, Kuwait from Manama? Which airline(s) should I take when I go to Abu Dhabi from Kuwait? Which airline(s) should I take when I go to Doha from Abu Dhabi? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.29.34.178 (talk) 00:52, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

You can check any number of travel websites to help you make those plans, or consult with a local travel agent. The options all depend on when you are going, what you are willing to pay and any other number of conditions, including the level of comfort you require when flying. Mingmingla (talk) 01:01, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

No airline flies direct from Toronto to Riyadh, so you will have to change planes. Etihad Airways offers direct service to Abu Dhabi, with connecting flights to Riyadh and every other city you plan to visit, though no direct flights serving routes that don't begin or end in Abu Dhabi. Other airlines serving Toronto that also connect to Riyadh with one change of plane (not including airlines requiring a long trans-Pacific flight) are Air France, British Airways, Emirates, Ethiopian Airlines, Lufthansa, and Turkish Airlines. As for your shorter flights in the Gulf region, if you want to fly nonstop, your only option is typically to use one of the national carriers serving either your starting point or destination, such as Saudia, Gulf Air, Kuwait Airways, or Qatar Airways. Marco polo (talk) 18:50, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Quary for airbaltic,u.k

Today itself I got an Visa as well as confirmation letter statting that I have been selected for an Air baltic,bathroad ,u.k,I would like to enquire about wheather its genuine or scam. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.125.202.69 (talk) 08:29, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

We cannot tell you whether this is or is not a scam. However, if you have not applied for a visa through Air Baltic, you should be very suspicious of this. If you have applied for a visa through them, consider contacting the company (see [6]). Do not reply to the letter, and especially do not provide any personal information, until you have checked that it is legitimate. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 09:04, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

This sort of query turns up on Yahoo! Answers a lot. Let us be absolutely plain: if you did not yourself apply for a British visa in person at the British embassy/consulate in your home country, were not photographed and fingerprinted there, and did not pay all the necessary fees yourself, then your so-called "visa" is a scam. British visas can NOT under any circumstances be issued by any third party such as a potential employer or travel agency. See this page from the UK Border Agency, which is the definitive source of information about visas and immigration to the UK. -- Arwel Parry (talk) 22:37, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Not true. Immigration agents can do most of the legwork on your behalf and you definitely don't need to, for example, hand in the form yourself or pay the fees yourself. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 16:21, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

In the US, Visa is also a credit card company. Are they in the UK as well ? If this is what the OP means, then it's no surprise to me if they get a letter saying they are pre-qualified for a credit card; I get those all the time. It is a bit of a scam, in that "pre-qualified" really doesn't meaning anything, you still have to go through the same application process as everyone else. However, they really do want to sell you their credit card, so in that sense, at least, it's legit. StuRat (talk) 23:34, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

We have Visa here; they notoriously sponsored the London Olympics this year so heavily that it was forbidden to use (well, technically, to accept) Mastercard anywhere on site. But do Air Baltic really issue either credit cards or travel visas? AlexTiefling (talk) 00:16, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Lots of big companies issue Visa cards, or rather, have an arrangement with some lender to put their logo on a card. If the "issuer" is an airline, typically you get Frequent Flier credit for most purchases on such a card. —Tamfang (talk) 04:51, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Visa Europe is the equivalent organisation to Visa Inc. that operates in the UK - they are not a conventional company. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 16:22, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Almost can't believe that's a redlink given how many people across Europe are holding cards bearing their logo in their wallets... --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 16:23, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

If it is the same letter as at http://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100816224423AAEFrgU then it looks like some sort of job offer scam, just ignore it. MilborneOne (talk) 16:35, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Alitalia and the number 18

While using Alitalia over the summer I noticed the plane's seats had no row 18, and there was no Gate 18 at whichever Milan airport we transferred through (memory fails me). Is there a special reason, for I can see no disaster etc on their wiki pages referring to a reason to cancel the use of the number? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Theediscerning (talk • contribs) 10:06, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

A bit of original research at http://www.seatplans.com/airlines/Alitalia/seatplans appears to show Row 18 in use but not 13 or 17 (or 1 on some types). MilborneOne (talk) 12:10, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

With quick googling I find three airports in Milan. As far as I can see, Linate does have a gate 18, and Malpensa 1 and Malpensa 2 don't because they don't have that many gates (M1: two terminals, gates A1-A13 and B1-B13; M2: A1-A16). Are there any other airports to check? 88.112.36.91 (talk) 17:06, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Forgiveness

According to this page, it looks like forgiveness "can lead you down the path of physical, emotional and spiritual well-being." OK. I understand the physical and emotional parts, but what in the world is "spiritual"? Does that mean "religious"? I am not a religious person, but I do know what it feels like to be wronged, and no matter how much the perpetrator wrongs another person, perhaps the best strategy is to embrace forgiveness and unconditional love; it's not the same thing as forgetting the wrongdoings or blaming the wrongdoer or forcing the wrongdoer to confess his/her wrongdoing. Practically, I think the wrongdoer would recognize his/her wrongdoing on his/her own accord, understand, and change. And with change may come physical and emotional health and social cooperation. At least, that's what forgiveness means in my opinion. Perhaps, MayoClinic is referring to "spirituality" in a generic sense - one that means the state of the soul or spirit of "inner human nature" to cooperate well with others. 140.254.121.33 (talk) 18:01, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

I would define spirituality as respect for the value and values of one's self and others. Ayn Rand was an atheist who was very concerned with spirituality. Here's a quote on her view of the sacred:

I will ask you to project the look on a child’s face when he grasps the answer to some problem he has been striving to understand. It is a radiant look of joy, of liberation, almost of triumph, which is unself-conscious, yet self-assertive, and its radiance seems to spread in two directions: outward, as an illumination of the world—inward, as the first spark of what is to become the fire of an earned pride. If you have seen this look, or experienced it, you know that if there is such a concept as “sacred”—meaning: the best, the highest possible to man—this look is the sacred, the not-to-be-betrayed, the not-to-be-sacrificed for anything or anyone.

Here is a rather good essay by Rick Bateman comparing Buddhism and Ayn Rand. Nietzsche, Spinoza, Epictetus and Marcus Aurelius are also essentially atheistic (in the Judaeo-Christian sense) writers who are big on spirituality. You can also sense a profound sense of spirituality in some science writers, especially Stephen Jay Gould and the incomparable Carl Sagan. With them it is a combination of a sense of awe for the Universe and man's comprehension of and place in it. The communication of values one gets from great art is also highly spiritual, dealing with man's experience as a being that has a spirit. This applies even to good pop culture, like the first Star Wars movie, or the way you feel after watching this. The way you feel after forgiveness is spiritually unburdened, which is the essence of the message in that video. μηδείς (talk) 18:41, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Personally I agree with the OP. It's not my definition of spirituality, but it'll do. --TammyMoet (talk) 18:42, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Spirituality is a kind of sense, not a material sense like seeing or smelling, but an intuitive sense of one's inner connection to other beings and the universe. By giving up anger and the sense of having been wronged, forgiveness repairs one's connection to other beings and the universe. Forgiveness allows for a sense of contentment and peace that is arguably deeper than mere emotional happiness. Marco polo (talk) 18:59, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

I wonder whether or not those mentioned authors above are going to do any good for an irreligious atheist. Although it's perfectly legitimate to be irreligious for an atheist, it's not legitimate for an atheist to be unspiritual in the sense that one completely devalues human life and concern for others. The problem is, whether or not the atheist perpetrator will recognize his/her wrongdoing and repent. 140.254.121.33 (talk) 19:31, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

You seem to be conflating irreligious atheist and sociopath. If you had read Epictetus or Spinoza you wouldn't make such a comment. Here's a link to Epictetus' main work, of which here is the first chapter:

The Enchiridion, By Epictetus, Written 135 A.C.E., Translated by Elizabeth Carter

1. Some things are in our control and others not. Things in our control are opinion, pursuit, desire, aversion, and, in a word, whatever are our own actions. Things not in our control are body, property, reputation, command, and, in one word, whatever are not our own actions.

The things in our control are by nature free, unrestrained, unhindered; but those not in our control are weak, slavish, restrained, belonging to others. Remember, then, that if you suppose that things which are slavish by nature are also free, and that what belongs to others is your own, then you will be hindered. You will lament, you will be disturbed, and you will find fault both with gods and men. But if you suppose that only to be your own which is your own, and what belongs to others such as it really is, then no one will ever compel you or restrain you. Further, you will find fault with no one or accuse no one. You will do nothing against your will. No one will hurt you, you will have no enemies, and you not be harmed.

Aiming therefore at such great things, remember that you must not allow yourself to be carried, even with a slight tendency, towards the attainment of lesser things. Instead, you must entirely quit some things and for the present postpone the rest. But if you would both have these great things, along with power and riches, then you will not gain even the latter, because you aim at the former too: but you will absolutely fail of the former, by which alone happiness and freedom are achieved.

Work, therefore to be able to say to every harsh appearance, "You are but an appearance, and not absolutely the thing you appear to be." And then examine it by those rules which you have, and first, and chiefly, by this: whether it concerns the things which are in our own control, or those which are not; and, if it concerns anything not in our control, be prepared to say that it is nothing to you.

μηδείς (talk) 20:03, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

You seem to be looking at people in terms of groups rather than as individuals. I referred "an irreligious atheist" who "devalues human life". In other words, I was referring to those people like a sociopath. You want to help them, but somehow you can't. With a Christian, at least you have something to base your message on. With an irreligious atheist, you have to resort to something else they may trust, so you can provide treatment. In any case, it sounds like I have an irreligious atheistic mother who just happens to be sociopathic. That's whom I was referring to. I wasn't referring to all irreligious atheists. Sorry for the misunderstanding. 140.254.121.33 (talk) 20:51, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Well, no, I was just misunderstanding what you meant to communicate. The philosophers I mentioned are among the most individualist ever. μηδείς (talk) 21:33, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

The OP asks what in the world is "spiritual"? Does that mean "religious"? That's been a matter of continuous debate in the secular humanist magazine Free Inquiry. One view is that spiritual means, along the lines of Carl Sagan's view, in awe of the majesty of the universe, in which case an atheist can indeed be spiritual even though irreligious. The other view, held by the magazine's editor Tom Flynn, is that "spiritual" can only mean enthralled with the supernatural, which is inconsistent with atheism. In any event, concepts that you mention like forgiveness, unconditional love, etc. are not confined to religion. Duoduoduo (talk) 19:38, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Can you give an example of enthrallment with the supernatural? Given we never perceive it, I am confused as to how to be enthralled with it. μηδείς (talk) 20:13, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

I would argue we can perceive the supernatural,not directly but by it's manifestations.Hotclaws (talk) 00:52, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

I would argue that this definition of "supernatural" is simply a name you call something you can't understand and hence ascribe a "supernatural" cause to it. May as well just say "God did it", because functionally the two are equally useful. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 17:15, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

i.e., God of the gaps —Tamfang (talk) 20:03, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

November 3

A new twist on idling your vehicle in cold weather

I know the question about idling a vehicle in cold temperature has been asked before, Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Science/2010 September 15#Should you let your engine warm up on cold mornings? Why? and Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2010 November 24#Car idling in cold are a couple of examples, so this is not another one. This is about when you are warming up an automatic vehicle. The common opinion is that you should put the vehicle in neutral and use the parking brake. The idea being that it allows fluids to circulate better. The downside would be the small possibility of the parking brake freezing. Any truth in this? CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 04:48, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

If you're on level ground, you don't actually need the brake while in neutral, although some chocks would make me feel a lot safer. I'd also stay inside the car during this warm up. StuRat (talk) 07:48, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

My Honda CRV manual (as I recall without going out into the cold garage to find it) says move off immediately.85.211.131.65 (talk) 15:36, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

It might depend on how cold it gets. For the kind of sub zero temperatures encountered in Cambridge Bay, Scandanavia or Siberia, all kinds of things freeze that you might not have to consider in less chilly places. For this reason, vehicle manufacturers and third-party component makers can supply a engine pre-heater to warm up the vehicle before starting. Your neighbours or your vehicle's manufacturer might know for sure what it is best to do. Astronaut (talk) 20:13, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

20th birthday

In the United States your 18th birthday allows you to purchase lottery tickets, 21st to drink alcohol, etc. As today is my 20th birthday I'm wondering if there are any such rights that are gained upon someone's 20th birthday in the United States (if "up to the states" then Kansas or Oklahoma). Ks0stm ^{(T•C•G•E)} 10:15, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Google search for: kansas "must be age 20 or older" suggests lots of TV stations want interview or reality show subjects to be at least 20 years old. Staecker (talk) 12:56, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

By the way - lottery tickets are state - it's 21 years old for the Iowa Lottery for instance. Rmhermen (talk) 13:42, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Let me be the first on Wikipedia to wish you a Happy Birthday. Hemoroid Agastordoff (talk) 17:44, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

You might be interested in reading Coming of Age Day. It's Japan, not the US, though. (The first time I saw a Japanese-style toilet, I remember thinking to myself, "I don't think we are in Kansas any more, Toto".) --Shirt58 (talk) 04:48, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Did it form a cyclone when you flushed ? :-) StuRat (talk) 05:48, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

I yearn to know if any manga character has ever said "I don't think we're in Kansai anymore." —Tamfang (talk) 06:52, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

The right to deny being a teenager. Mitch Ames (talk) 07:04, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Do children in the US have a day off from school on Nov. 1st?

Are children in the US, as my mother claims, able to sleep extra hours after Halloween or do they have to go to school also on November 1st? Dear Americans, please help me! Calle Widmann (talk) 16:11, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

November 1 is All Saints' Day, but I'm not aware of any US public school which gives that day off. Perhaps some Christian schools might. StuRat (talk) 16:42, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

(Doesn't meet WP:RS, but my Mom is former school employee). That may be around the time the school gives out report cards, so they might get a half-day or a whole day. Other than that, unless Nov 1 randomly falls on to be a teacher-work day or the weekend, kids don't get it off. Ian.thomson (talk) 16:47, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

According to this site, November 1 is a public holiday in the USA. --TammyMoet (talk) 16:58, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, but that site is total BS. Here's the days they list:

January 1 New Year Public Holiday in United States            (correct)
April 25 Liberation Day Public Holiday in United States       (wrong)
May 1 May Day Public Holiday in United States                 (wrong)
June 2 National Day Public Holiday in United States           (wrong)
August 15 Assumption Public Holiday in United States          (wrong)
November 1 All Saints’ Day Public Holiday in United States    (wrong)
December 8, 25 & 26 Public Holiday in United States           (only December 25th)
Spring: Easter; Easter Monday (day after Easter)              (only one day off)

They also seem to have missed Labor Day, Memorial Day, Independence Day, Thanksgiving, and, in some places, Martin Luther King Day. StuRat (talk) 17:01, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

That's a list oft the public holidays in Italy. Bgfx (talk) 17:02, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Actually, my school district gave Christmas week off (but not Dec 8), and would usually give a couple days off around Thankgiving. Ian.thomson (talk) 17:12, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Yes, schools are free to give off more time than the public holidays, and many do. StuRat (talk) 17:14, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

My school gave the federal holidays listed here off with the exception of the birthdays and Veterans' Day. We often got a couple of days on either side of Christmas/New Year's off, and Thanksgiving often has Friday (and sometimes Wednesday or even the whole week) off. All Saints' Day was never a day I got off in any US public school I went to. - Purplewowies (talk) 03:36, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

• Children in NJ will have off on the 6th for election day, since many schools are polling places. Christie rescheduled Halloween for Monday the 5th because of this after the hurricane. A lot of kids took advantage of this by trick-or-treating in Philly on Halloween, and will get a second go next week. μηδείς (talk) 17:17, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Thank you very much! The conclusion is that my mother was wrong. Again, by the way. Calle Widmann (talk) 18:13, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Catholic schools may have a holiday on November 1. 69.62.243.48 (talk) 03:05, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

November 4

A word to call the second highest ranking student?

Is there a word to call the highest second ranking graduate of a study program at a university? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.16.134.110 (talk) 04:02, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Salutatorian -24.101.193.186 (talk) 04:30, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Jump pass (American College Football)

There's been some chatter about a now famous jump pass in a recent football game and there's been reminiscing about Tim Tebow. What is a jump pass, how is it special (I've seen it referred to as a "trick play") and what has it got to do with Tim Tebow? I don't think he was involved in this most recent famous example. DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 06:46, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

This is probably a question for the Entertainment desk Nicholasprado (talk) 06:49, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

He apparently did it twice in important games, in 2006 and again in 2009 in the 2009 BCS National Championship Game, both times for touchdowns. Quarterbacks are taught to plant their feet, not jump up, before passing. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:22, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

The "jump pass" isn't strictly a "trick play" or "gadget play" per se. Some old-timey quarterbacks used it from time to time (Sammy Baugh, often credited as being one of the first truly modern quarterbacks, had it has part of his repetoire). Even today it shows up (The Cincinnati Bearcats used it just this weekend: as did the Nebraska Cornhuskers: [http://www.omaha.com/article/20121103/HUSKERS/711049906/1707). Tebow was well known for it, it works well for "running" quarterbacks, because the play starts off looking like a run, and the QB then stops short, jumps and passes. The reason why a QB would use the jump pass is that they are very close to the offensive line, and so have very little visibility or passing lanes. From farther back, the QB has more open slots to throw through. When you are right behind the offensive line, you have to jump to get the ball over their heads. Tebow has done it this year for the New York Jets, so it does show up in the NFL. Doug Flutie, who was known for being short for a QB, as well as a "running QB" of the Tim Tebow mold, used the jump pass in the NFL as well: [7] is one picture of him doing it, this video has several examples of Flutie using the jump pass. --Jayron32 23:59, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Habit of mine

This question has been removed. Per the reference desk guidelines, the reference desk is not an appropriate place to request medical, legal or other professional advice, including any kind of medical diagnosis, prognosis, or treatment recommendations. For such advice, please see a qualified professional. If you don't believe this is such a request, please explain what you meant to ask, either here or on the Reference Desk's talk page. Mitch Ames (talk) 07:08, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

This question has been removed. Per the reference desk guidelines, the reference desk is not an appropriate place to request medical, legal or other professional advice, including any kind of medical diagnosis or prognosis, or treatment recommendations. For such advice, please see a qualified professional. If you don't believe this is such a request, please explain what you meant to ask, either here or on the Reference Desk's talk page. Mitch Ames (talk) 07:08, 4 November 2012 (UTC)--~~~~

I wanted to know what I had so I could then see a qualified professional. Nicholasprado (talk) 07:11, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Determining what condition you have is the very definition of diagnosis - which we can't do. For any medical issue, if you don't know exactly which professional to see, start with your local doctor.

We can't do diagnosis but we do have an article about nail biting that has general info. 67.119.3.105 (talk) 08:32, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

time

i need a url to tell me what time it is. other then "time.gov". thank you. 70.114.254.43 (talk) 07:10, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

http://www.whattimeisit.com/ of course! Mitch Ames (talk) 07:31, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

http://www.timeanddate.com/ also.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 09:12, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/cgi-bin/timer.pl RudolfRed (talk) 17:54, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/info/current-time/ Alansplodge (talk) 20:17, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=what+time+is+it&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 --Mr.98 (talk) 20:43, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

I'll bet this works just as well: http://www.google.com/search?q=what+time+is+it

But if I click 98's link will Google really think I'm using Safari? —Tamfang (talk) 20:47, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

If you click on "My Preferences" at the top of this page, then click "Gadgets", then go to the "Appearances" section, check the second box which says "Add a clock ..." You will then have a clock at the top of every Wikipedia page that you can always see. (It will show UTC not your local time, but it is very handy to have.)    → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 04:21, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Google Easter Egg

I'm exceedingly excited, because I suspect I've found a google easter egg no one's noticed before. Google "Frankenweenie" and you get three upside down bats in the right pane where they give the movie thumbnail and synopsis. Hover your mouse over the bats and they fly away. I tried googling about it, but no one seems to have noticed it. Does it work for your (whoever reads this) browser too? Am I really the first one who discovered this? Is it really an Easter Egg?? 223.236.112.50 (talk) 10:52, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Works in Chrome. HiLo48 (talk) 11:12, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Googling that term in Chrome does not produce any upside down bats. I suspect the OP is a victim of some form of adware. --Saddhiyama (talk) 11:19, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

@Saddhiyama: I think not. 223.236.157.73 (talk) 11:46, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Worked for me. But what's a Google Easter Egg? -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 11:50, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Easter egg (media) - Cucumber Mike (talk) 11:53, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Sorry but you are not the first to notice the bats. It was mentioned in this Twitter feed from 31 October. After reading a few of the comments I tried "the exorcist", "the shining" and got bats. However, "the crawling eye" and "friday the 13th" did not produce bats. See google easter egg horror movies for more information. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 12:58, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

I guess this only occurred at Halloween then, none of the examples mentioned provides any bats now. --Saddhiyama (talk) 13:14, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Ah got some on the Shining. Seems to be somewhat randomized, only appearing at certain times and not with every search on a movie. You can refresh the search on the same movie to see the different results. --Saddhiyama (talk) 13:17, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

The Frankenweenie bats show up for me in Safari. They don't go away when I refresh. --Mr.98 (talk) 16:07, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Buddah siting

in which direction should my buddah be facing in the garden ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.52.34.215 (talk) 19:37, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

This says south.

This says east.

But there are over 21 million hits for “buddha direction should face”.

I think it’s an open field, and nobody can tell you a definitive "right" answer. In my limited understanding of Buddhism, it would be contrary to the ideals of the teachings to specify anything in a rigid way like this. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 22:14, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

A reasonable decision would be, "Facing you". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:47, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Except garden owners have a funny habit of moving around their garden and seeing their objets de jardin from all perspectives. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 00:52, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Inward. —Tamfang (talk) 02:38, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. Although if you are facing north, then your booty is facing south. :-) StuRat (talk) 22:10, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

If it is a religious altar, then it seems logically consistent to: (i) follow the traditions of the Buddhist sect to which you subscribe; or (ii) if you do not subscribe to a particular sect, to follow the traditions of the particular Buddhist tradition in which your statue was originally carved.

If you are just using it as decorative garden furniture like a gnome, then who cares which way it faces - whatever looks good. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 13:57, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

(For Zen or other traditions of Chinese origin, the general answer is "the most prominent position in the circumstances". In Zen temples, you will often see statues facing south, north, east and west all in the same hall. As the southern entrance is often the main entrance in traditional Chinese architecture, generally the statue depicting the most exalted person is at the centre and facing south, followed by other figures facing south, then those facing north, then those facing west and east. However, the positioning is primarily determined by the direction of the room: the most important statue in a hall facing west would naturally face west.) --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 14:20, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

November 5

Meganekko

Why are anime characters cuter with glasses? --128.42.153.147 (talk) 01:04, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Bigger eyes are inherently cuter, see paedomorphosis. μηδείς (talk) 03:46, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Homosexual incest

I just finished reading Laws_regarding_incest#United_States, but do the laws indicated there apply to homosexual relationships, as well? 69.62.243.48 (talk) 07:09, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

I think that Occam's Razor would apply here; if it isn't explicitly excluded, you can assume it's included. And why would they exclude same-sex instances of incest? The law prohibits sexual activity between closely related family members. It's not just about the risk of producing deformed children. Just because same-sex relationships are behind the 8-ball in terms of recognition and equality, does not mean that the law is not aware that people of the same sex sometimes have sex. If it's consenting adults, that's generally accepted these days. But where these people are closely related family members, they're just as much in breach of the law as opposite sex people would be. A law that says a man can't have sex with his sister but is perfectly at liberty to have sex with his brother, would be a very dumb law. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 19:07, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

I do think the origin of the incest taboo is that incest leads to inbreeding. This can't happen in the case of homosexual incest, so it's a valid question. However, the reality is that when you combine the people who object to incest and those who object to homosexuality, you get more than enough to keep it illegal, in most places. Think of what would happen to the average politician, if he suggested legalizing homosexual incest. His opponent would have ads on TV claiming he is in favor of both incest and homosexuality (and probably sex with children), and he would be soundly defeated in the next election, or even recalled. StuRat (talk) 20:11, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Mind you, being dumb does not always stop dumb laws being created. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 20:01, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Dumb? How often does homo incest produce inbred children? μηδείς (talk) 20:11, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Re-read my post. Particularly this sentence: "It's not just about the risk of producing deformed children".

(Ironico-synchronistically, while I was typing this I was listening to a piece of music by Enrique Granados called "El pelele".) -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 20:49, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Why ? Is that about homosexual incest ? StuRat (talk) 21:53, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Did you see the translation? -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 21:57, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

After reading way too much of both articles, yes. It would be simpler if you just told us. To save everyone else the trouble, it translates as "The Straw Man", and, despite the link, there appears to be nothing ironic or synchronistic about the composer. StuRat (talk) 22:03, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Congratulations for making the most deliberately obtuse statement of the year. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 22:27, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

While the origin of the opposite-sex incest taboo was to prevent deformed children, same-sex incest tends to be seen as just as shameful as far as I can find. The closest I can find to acceptance of same-sex incest is modern western pornography (especially twins, because double your pleasure) which we all know is a perfect measure of a culture's moral standards. At least in the US, undeniable incest (as opposed to the debatable forms like cousin marriage) tend to be abusive. Ian.thomson (talk) 21:01, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

I think Ian's last point is the true problem with anyone getting the laws changed. An activity that could potentially be a victimless crime, but is almost exclusively practiced (in the public's eye) by child molesters, is unlikely to garner much support. The same thing is true of polygamy, which is most publicly practiced by communities such as the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, and Warren Jeffs did a good job making the practice look like an excuse to have sex with teenage girls. Someguy1221 (talk) 21:29, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. In the UK, for example, it's illegal to have sex with your step-father/mother/siblings, not because it would leave to deformed children, but because there would almost always be an abuse of trust involved on some level. - Jarry1250 ^{[Deliberation needed]} 22:10, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Nowhere in my question did I say anything about adult-child relationships. What about same-sex incest between adult father and son, sisters, first cousins? 69.62.243.48 (talk) 00:25, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Archiving of text messages

Following the latest rumours of "salacious" texts between David Cameron and Rebekah Brooks, I'm wondering about the archiving of text messages in the United Kingdom (not interested in other countries). If a recipient of a text deletes it from his phone (and if the sender also deletes it from sent items), is a copy retained on a phone company server somewhere, or is it gone forever? And if copies are retained, are the phone companies legally obliged to provide those copies to the police or courts if asked to do so? --Viennese Waltz 09:44, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

A draft bill along these lines is currently in the works. BBC: Draft Communications Data Bill could lead to 'police state', This snooping bill is worthy of a surveillance state. However, the current legislation seems to be the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000. I can't understand legalese enough to really read it, but it seems police can get a warrant for such data already and presumably if there is a warrant the telecom company must comply. The other part I can't figure out is whether the RIPA legislation requires the telecom company to store messages so they can be subpoenaed for them. 184.147.123.169 (talk) 16:34, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Casino NSW notable people

Sorry this old guy gives up surely whenauthentic articles are deleted you could in simple steps tell me where I am going wrong. I`m certainly not a World Champion at this caper. Good healthCasinoboy28 (talk) 11:12, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

For the benefit of other editors, the OP is talking about this edit [8]. Well firstly, you don't sign contributions in articles (that's just for talk pages and this reference desk). Secondly, you can't just add details of someone who you think is notable without providing some kind of reference. If you think Mr Browning is a notable enough figure to be added to the list, you need to be able to support that with references to him in already published books, magazines or newspapers. Good luck, --Viennese Waltz 11:22, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Also, I think you are wanting to continue the discussion at Wikipedia:Help desk#Casino NSW notable people, rather than start a new one here. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 11:25, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Or, better yet, at Talk:Casino, New South Wales. —Tamfang (talk) 22:34, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

80's 90's wtf?

Okay,this question has been stepping on me for the longest,no one I know seems too no.HOW DID THE 80'S BECAME THE 90'S?74.178.177.227 (talk) 19:08, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Time advanced from 11:59pm December 31, 1989 to 12:00am January 1, 1990. --Daniel

I mean,did people start wearing their pants normal and got rid of their afro? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.178.177.227 (talk) 19:25, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Fashions change. Obviously they have changed since the 90s too. Fashions did not change suddenly, nor was there any other sharp change between the decades. Most people wore the same clothes and hair styles in 1990 that they wore in 1989. The late 80s and early 90s were very similar in many ways. When we talk about "the 80s" or "the 90s", we are generalizing about the most memorable or unusual events or styles that are remembered from some part of either of those decades. By the way, afros and bell bottom pants weren't worn much during the 80s. (Well, maybe afros in the early 80s, but not much after about 1985.) Those things were typical of the 70s. (Yes, I lived through all of those decades.) Marco polo (talk) 19:32, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Not only fashion,but technology,music,etc.74.178.177.227 (talk) 19:40, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

IIRC from the pinups of Phoebe Cates and Tom Cruise and Debbie Gibson on my sisters' rooms as a kid, the late 80s and early 90s was the era of men in leather jackets and aviator shades, and women with either big blown-away hair or boyishly cut ones, and incredibly corny music. No afros or bellbottoms.-- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 19:41, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Well, as someone who was there (sorry, this is original research, not really allowed but it's the best I've got!) I remember changing my trousers about the 14th of November 1989, we all knew the 90s were coming and I decided not to wait, some people started even earlier, like 1987, Wow! can you believe those crazy front runners. But to balance it there were quite a few people who could not let go of those years and didn't change their clothes until about 1993. Unbelievable but true. I know someone who has not changed yet, 20 years later, like in a time warp. I got my Afro trimmed back slowly over about 6 months in February 1990, I had heard about that Sampson dude and I was like "no way Jose, am I gonna lose my strength and stuff". A lot of folks had their hair cut right back in the first week of January like the fashion columns said you should, and it was so weird seeing these people with really short hair, they were like almost unrecognizable, but we got by knowing the clothes they wore. It was crazy times. Yes, wtf? indeed. Caesar's Daddy (talk) 19:43, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

The question that has been bugging me about this is "Why the apostrophes?" HiLo48 (talk) 19:43, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

If you're asking "Why is there an apostrophe in 90's?": Some American style guides prescribe it; some don't. Everywhere else in the world it's frowned upon. I'm assuming OP is American from his IP.

Wrong you are,I am a brilliant hacker of the right age.74.178.177.227 (talk) 20:18, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

If you're asking "Why did some American prescriptivist introduce extraneous apostrophes?": To denote plurals in non-English words. Suppose you discover a new animal called "xyz" in a foreign land and then proceed to write home about it. If you pluralize it as "xyzs" your readers can't tell whether you're about talking a single thing called "xyzs" or a collection of "xyz". Adding an apostrophe solves this problem. Some prescriptivist decided to broaden the rule to "add an apostrophe to the plural form of any non-English word". Since "90" isn't an English word its plural form must be rendered as "90's". A8875 (talk) 20:13, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

I was taught to render it as '90s, with the reasoning that the apostrophe goes before the 90 because it is indicating an abbreviated form. And let's just say that this is the first time I have seen that assertion regarding pluralization. Regards, Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 20:24, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

The apostrophe in "'90s" actually serves a different purpose. Going by the list on Apostrophe, '90s would be purpose #1: "marking of the omission of one or more letters"; 90's would be purpose #3:"marking as plural of written items that are not words". It's a pity that Google search doesn't preserve punctuations, otherwise searching for "'90's" could provide some good laughs on a rainy day. A8875 (talk) 20:38, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

This is a classic example of a question where the questioner assumes the reader knows what he's thinking. That's not a reasonable assumption to make. I'm not putting you down, questioner, but re-read both the header and the original question, and tell me if you can see even the slightest reference to fashion. It could have been about so many other things. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 19:47, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

I would guess the OP is young. I've noticed young people don't have a fully developed theory of mind. Thus, whatever they are thinking about, they assume everyone else is thinking about the same thing, and wherever they are, they assume everyone else is there too. StuRat (talk) 20:03, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Wrong you are,for I want to known everything about how 80's 90's.74.178.177.227 (talk) 20:21, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

It would help if you could learn to write a proper English sentence. Do you mean you want to know how the 80's differed from the 90's, how they were the same, or both ? StuRat (talk) 21:59, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps: wtf = Why the fashion?-- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 19:49, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

I just want to know the things of to day used to look like [link removed].74.178.177.227 (talk) 19:55, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

One of the pictures in those Yahoo Image search results has a trojan, btw, at least according to my AV. Not your fault. But I have removed the link just the same.-- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 20:08, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Okay cool.74.178.177.227 (talk) 20:26, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

In international politics, the end of the Cold War was the defining event which separated the 80s from the 90s. Although it began in 1989 and ended in 1992 or later, the transition was most intense in 1990 itself. The fall of the Berlin Wall, the Singing Revolution in the Baltic states, the democratisation of Czechoslovakia and its subsequent dissolution in the Velvet Divorce, the increasingly violent collapse of Yugoslavia - the whole Autumn of Nations changed the face of the world. And the leaders changed too - from Ronald Reagan, Margaret Thatcher and Mikhail Gorbachev to George H W Bush, John Major and Boris Yeltsin.

Home computers leapt ahead - genuinely effective home PCs and fast-moving games consoles became available. Popular music media (including the increasingly dominant MTV) moved from focussing on synthesiser-heavy styles to move 'rockist' guitar-based styles. Strongly political popular music became less emphasised as well - indeed, political apathy was the order of the day. Here in the UK, satellite TV offered a wide range of channels for the first time.AlexTiefling (talk) 20:39, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Bill clinton and the rise of Fox television in the uS are much more '90's than GHWB. μηδείς (talk) 22:43, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

What is "pastrami"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.111.20.107 (talk) 00:06, 6 November 2012 (UTC)