Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard

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Welcome to the dispute resolution noticeboard (DRN)

This is an informal place to resolve small content disputes as part of dispute resolution. It may also be used as a tool to direct certain discussions to more appropriate forums, such as requests for comment, or other noticeboards. You can ask a question on the talk page. This is an early stop for most disputes on Wikipedia. You are not required to participate, however, the case filer must participate in all aspects of the dispute or the matter will be considered failed. Any editor may volunteer! Click this button to add your name! You don't need to volunteer to help. Please feel free to comment below on any case. Be civil and remember; Maintain Wikipedia policy: it is usually a misuse of a talk page to continue to argue any point that has not met policy requirements. Editors must take particular care adding information about living persons to any Wikipedia page. This may also apply to some groups. Noticeboards should not be a substitute for talk pages. Editors are expected to have had extensive discussion on a talk page (not just through edit summaries) to work out the issues before coming to DRN. Do you need assistance? Would you like to help? Request dispute resolution If we can't help you, a volunteer will point you in the right direction. Discussions should be civil, calm, concise, neutral, objective and as nice as possible. This noticeboard is for content disputes only. Comment on the contributions, not the contributors. Off-topic or uncivil behavior may garner a warning, improper material may be struck-out, collapsed, or deleted, and a participant could be asked to step back from the discussion. We cannot accept disputes that are already under discussion at other content or conduct dispute resolution forums or in decision-making processes such as Requests for comments, Articles for deletion, or Requested moves. The dispute must have been recently discussed extensively on a talk page (not just through edit summaries) to be eligible for help at DRN. The discussion should have been on the article talk page. Discussion on a user talk page is useful but not sufficient, because the article talk page may be watched by other editors who may be able to comment. Discussion normally should have taken at least two days, with more than one post by each editor. Ensure that you deliver a notice to each person you add to the case filing by leaving a notice on their user talk page. DRN has a notice template you can post to their user talk page by using the code shown here: {{subst:drn-notice}}. Be sure to sign and date each notice with four tildes (~~~~). Giving notice on the article talk page in dispute or relying on linking their names here will not suffice. Do not add your own formatting in the conversation. Let the moderators (DRN Volunteers) handle the formatting of the discussion as they may not be ready for the next session. Follow moderator instructions There will be times when the moderator may issue an instruction. It is expected of you to follow their instruction and you can always ask the volunteer on their talk page for clarification, if not already provided. Examples are about civility, don't bite the newcomers, etc. If you need help: If you need a helping hand just ask a volunteer, who will assist you. This is not a court with judges or arbitrators that issue binding decisions: we focus on resolving disputes through consensus, compromise, and advice about policy. For general questions relating to the dispute resolution process, please see our FAQ page. Become a volunteer We are always looking for new volunteers and everyone is welcome. Click the volunteer button above to join us, and read over the volunteer guide to learn how to get started. Being a volunteer on this page is not formal in any respect, and it is not necessary to have any previous dispute resolution experience. However, having a calm and patient demeanor and a good knowledge of Wikipedia policies and guidelines is very important. It's not mandatory to list yourself as a volunteer to help here, anyone is welcome to provide input. Volunteers should remember: Volunteers should gently and politely help the participant fix problems. Suggest alternative venues if needed. Try to be nice and engage the participants. Volunteers do not have any special powers, privileges, or authority in DRN or in Wikipedia, except as noted here. Volunteers who have had past dealings with the article, subject matter, or with the editors involved in a dispute which would bias their response must not act as a volunteer on that dispute. 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Last updated by FireflyBot (talk) at 05:46, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Current disputes

Blue Army (Poland)

– This request has been open for some time and must be reviewed.

Filed by COD T 3 on 06:10, 7 March 2014 (UTC).

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Blue Army (Poland) (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• COD T 3 (talk · contribs)
• Faustian (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

I'd like to ask for third party assistance on several issues regarding the Blue Army article. In particular the greatly over-expanded Controversies section, which was significantly enlarged to include big chunks of text dedicated to subject matter not directly associated with the Blue Army. Also, I would like to point out that most Wiki article admins control the size of content as not to have one user come-in and dump larger amounts of text in one section, and in the process completely shift the balance of the article, by creating un-due weight issues by simply over expanding one section.

Redundant statements re-emphasize similar points: (the two phrases are only one sentence apart).

• many ethnic Ukrainians and Jews generally see its conduct during the war in a negative light.
• As a result, Jews perceived Haller's Army as particularly harmful to their interests.

Overstating wrongful claims; as those made by historian William W. Hagen. If his claims were soundly disproven, why include them? More importantly why does the paragraph go into such detail about the events of the pogrom when the Blue Army was not even there in the first place? Also, as noted by historian Edward Goldstein, the Blue Army was accuse of several pogroms; that they had nothing to do with, so Hagen's wrongful accusation is nothing unusual. Finally, other editors proposed to remove the text in the past.

Over emphasizing individuals not directly linked to the Blue Army. The entire paragraph about Hugh S. Gibson, and his opinions about the Jews are completely irrelevant to our topic. Also, the American envoy was not sent to Poland to look after Haller's troops, yet his prominence in the text is overblown. Finally, his reporting on the "food riots" is also not directly related to this article, as the events primarily occurred during civilian unrest, and not done by the army.

Have you tried to resolve this previously?

Tried to contact other editors who contributed in the past to the article.

How do you think we can help?

Please, look over the disputed Controversies section; which contains issues of neutrality, un-due weight, puffery, and a general unencyclopedic tone.

Summary of dispute by Faustian

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

The article had been stable with a consensus version for a long time until recent disruptions, which are designed to whitewash anti-Jewish crimes committed by this military unit. The editor was caught dishonestly presenting sources twice. One example is here: COD T 3 wrote: " Also, I had a chance to read the "sourced" text on Google Books, and found that nowhere is Gibson called an anti-semite, or that he held a personal hostility towards jews." Diff: [1]. He admits being this IP: [2].

Here was from the source: Ideology, Politics, and Diplomacy in East Central Europe Mieczysław B. Biskupski, Piotr Stefan Wandycz University Rochester Press, 2003 [3] Direct quote from the book: "He [Gibson] stood out for his antisemitism even in an era when genteel disdain for things Jewish pervaded the clublike atmosphere of the foreign service. Upon their arrival in Warsaw, the Yankee diplomats [including,. of course, Gibson] found their prejudices confirmed by an almost physical repugnance towards the city's exotic Orthodox Jewry...to Gibson and his colleagues, the Jews represented antagonists and also a source of sport, and ridicule of Jewish traits, customs, and appearance became the favorite expression of camaderie within the legation." Page 67.

So his claims ought to be viewed with a grain of salt.

A discussion about the article's intro is here: [4].Faustian (talk) 17:59, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Blue Army (Poland) discussion

Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.

Welcome to the Dispute Resolution Noticeboard. I am a regular volunteer (and the current coordinator here). It appears to me that the listing editor has limited this request to the Controversies section, so we will not be dealing with the introduction. As for the Controversies section, just the length of it seems UNDUE in relationship to the rest of the article. Information should be included in articles in relationship to its importance to the subject of the article. The BA's antisemitism is clearly important, but it is not the most important thing about the BA in comparison to the general information about what the BA was and did and how it played a part in history. That's not to say that it does not need to be included, but it does need to be included proportionately. Fortunately, it also appears to me that the section's length may be cut down by removal of what appears to be inappropriate material. Let's start this discussion with the Gibson material. I've read through the section a couple of times now and for the life of me cannot figure out what the paragraph beginning "The United States sent an envoy" about Gibson has to do with the Blue Army. The only connection between Gibson and the BA would seem to be in the sentence, "General Józef Haller himself issued a proclamation demanding that his soldiers stop cutting off beards of Orthodox Jews, and complained about the violent antisemitism of the Polish-American units to the American envoy Hugh S. Gibson." (Emphasis added.) When you look at the source for that comment here, it does not go on to say that Gibson was involved with the BA or had any authority or responsibility over the BA. Even the idea that it was a "complaint" seems to overstate the source material, which only says at page 276, "General Haller told me that he was greatly annoyed with his troops because they were violently anti-Semitic and that although he had given the strictest orders to keep them in line they were hounding Jews at every opportunity." That same source does mention that Gibson made several negative reports back to Washington about the antisemitic actions of the Polish-American soldiers in the BA and also says that Louis Marshall, Chairman of the Committee of Jewish Delegations at the Paris Peace Conference, criticized Gibson for (among other things) brushing off the antisemitic actions of the BA as "minor persecution". Again, though, I simply cannot see how any of that justifies that paragraph of material about Gibson in this article about the BA, but perhaps I'm not seeing or am misunderstanding something. Faustian can you explain how and why that material should be in this article about the BA? Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 18:57, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

One of the reasons for this section's length is that some pro-BA editors disputed the existence, prevalence or scope of antisemitic violence, resulting in proofs and counter-proofs and a necessity to back up the claims about such violence with numerous sources. If I recall correctly, someone used Gibson as a source trying to exonerate the Blue Army, so in response the fact that Gibson was an antisemite (rendering his exoneration non-objective) was included. I don't oppose removing Gibson completely, or reducing that part to a sentence. The controversy section can also be trimmed by removing or reducing the Hagen paragraph. I felt it would be useful because Hagen was wrong, the info might come up somewhere, and here we have evidence that Hagen made a mistake; perhaps another reductrion to one sentence with proof in a note rather than the article body. Another possible place to trim would be the part about Jews in Haller's Army, which does not seem to be based on a very academic source: [5].Faustian (talk) 03:04, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

I think that getting rid of Gibson altogether is a good idea. Also, the Hagen paragraph should be removed completely. The reason for this, is that the BA was accused several times of pogroms they did to commit, so no need to single out this particular claim over others. As for the Edward Goldstein research into Jews serving in the BA; I'm not sure how to approach this issue. His research is not truly academic, but does provide some valid claims; one solution is to maybe separate this paragraph, and make it into a separate sub-section?? Also, as noted above I would like to address the quality of the text itself, simply because of the piecemeal nature of how the section was created; and finally discuss the issues of redundancy, and puffery in the text. --COD T 3 (talk) 05:12, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

Okay, I think we're at least in agreement that we can get rid of the references to Gibson and I'm going to implement that change. Let me look at the Hagen paragraph and I'll get back to this discussion later today or tomorrow. Let's put Goldstein on hold for the moment. Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 14:43, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

Faustian, in this discussion and this edit at Lwów pogrom (1918), you pretty much conceded that the Hagen reference to the Blue Army's involvement at Lwów was a clear error and could be taken out altogether. Have you changed your mind? I see no reason for it to be included at all just to avoid the possibility that it might come up again and to do so could impinge on our policy against editorial comments in mainspace. We can certainly put a note on the talk page about it, of course, for future reference. Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 21:54, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

I'm going to take the silence as a "no" and also remove the Hagen material from the paragraph. Feel free to revert if I'm mistaken. Does anyone want to continue on Goldstein? Unless I get two "yesses" by 14:00 UTC on 14 March, I'm going to close this as "Stale/resolved" and the discussion can go back to the talk page and be refiled here later if you stall out again. Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 14:15, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

I'd like to discuss additional neutrality issues found in the text, and request that this thread continue until all the issues are discussed in this forum; as previous tries to resolve any neutrality disputes on the Talk Page, ended up being dismissed by user Faustian, and since the article attracts a relatively minor editor following, no other editors participated or provided significant input in the latest round of discussion. So, the issue remains that some of the phrases are poorly structured, and the message they convey may create bias. In the 4th paragraph in the Controversies section, I do question the legitimacy of this statement:

• In cases when Polish sources couldn't deny the existence of anti-Jewish violence, the authorities alluded that Jews charged too much for food during food shortages, or claimed that the violence was a result of "food riots" rather than pogroms, and blamed "German agents" for inciting the violence.[18]

The reason I think this text is bias and should be removed, is because it refers to "Food Riots" and "German Agents". I don't think (and, I could be wrong) that this particular example can be blamed on BA. These claims seem more to do with civilian lawlessness, than military abuses. Also, the statement seems to try and discredit the sentence just before it about "willful disinformation", regarding newspaper reports about alleged anti-jewsih violence committed by the BA. But, those claims of false propaganda are legitimate and proven; and to automatically try and play them down with a questionable statement like the one in question seems out of place. To summarize; yes there were anti-Semitic outbursts committed by the troops serving in the BA, but there were also grossly exaggerated and false accounts published in the press, perfect example was the Lviv pogrom. So, I don't think that a statement that highlights those issues should be followed with a sentence that tries to discredit it. Also, as noted earlier the claims about "Food Riots" and "German Agents" appears to be connected with civilian matters not those of the BA. Finally, regarding the Goldstein issue, I would recommend creating a separate sub-section and place the text there, as it this was not a "controversial" issue that some Jews served in the BA, but a noteworthy item. --COD T 3 (talk) 04:09, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

I'll leave this open for a bit longer (probably until Monday since I don't ordinarily edit much on weekends), but nothing can be achieved here without Faustian's participation. If he doesn't choose to return (and I note that he hasn't edited WP at all in the last couple of days), there's nothing else we can do here. Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 14:43, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

2014 Ukrainian revolution

– General close. See comments for reasoning.

Filed by Vapour on 06:45, 9 March 2014 (UTC).

Closed discussion

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Have you discussed this on a talk page? Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. Location of dispute 2014 Ukrainian revolution (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) Users involved Vapour (talk · contribs) Darkness Shines (talk · contribs) LokiiT (talk · contribs) Volunteer Marek (talk · contribs) Dispute overview I added content from Harrez newspaper reporting incidents of attack on jews and synagogues. The paper also note rise of far right antisemitic party in the new Ukraine government. I also added that these are used by Putin as a justification for intervention.[6] This was swiftly removed by VolunteerMark as a POV edit. Since he is not disputing Harrez's reliability or that such incident took place, I really don't see his argument has any merit. Whether one agree with Russia's argument is a separate matter from whether such argument is raised by Russia. I have subsequently listed several major news source which also reports existence of far right element in the revolution but it appear that VoluteerMark is adamant that this is a POV edit. I believe inclusion of content about attack on minority or rise of far right in ongoing volatile situation deserve somewhat speedier resolution. I should also mention that I and Loki welcome VolunteerMark adding further contents into this matter. However, Mark seems intent on just removing the issue all together. Have you tried to resolve this previously? Told Mark that content is sourced from a legitimate source. Plus, reminded him that attack on jews and synagogue is a factual account and not really an opinion. Loki also told Mark that he could be more helpful by adding and expanding the contents rather than removing the issue/section all together. Yet, Mark is repeating that the edit is a POV so I feel being stonewalled. How do you think we can help? Could you remind everyone about wikipdia policy of sourcing contents and differentiating facts and POVs. Summary of dispute by Darkness Shines As was seen below we have sources which say there has been no increase in anti-semitic attacks in Ukraine. Cherry picking and distorting a source are not on. Darkness Shines (talk) 09:58, 11 March 2014 (UTC) Summary of dispute by LokiiT Regardless of whether or not the section is neutral, no one has disputed the fact that anti-Semetic incidences have taken place according to reliable sources. But actually adding this information to the article seems next to impossible, despite the fact that only Volunteer Marek and a drive-by reverter have issue with the content in question. Marek has repeatedly claimed that he is not opposed to including factual information regarding anti-Semetic activity, and only has issue with its supposed lack of neutrality. However, when I attempted to expand the section with more content/different sources and fix a few of the POV issues[7][8] (including adding a POV template and including incidences implicating the other side) my edits were met with full reverts and hostile comments such as this: [9]. Marek is citing WP:NPOV as reason for his blanking [10], which I noted is not in line with wikipedia policy (especially since it's contested). He and Darkness Shines seem to be trying their hardest to be uncooperative. Also it's worth noting that Darkness Shines had no prior history editing in that article, or any related articles, and did not even attempt to properly justify his position on the talk page. Summary of dispute by Volunteer Marek Quick question. Vapour says: I have subsequently listed several major news source which also reports . Ummm... AFAICT, it wasn't Vapour that added "several major news source", it was LokiiT, who showed up a little later to back up Vapour on this edit. Of course these "several major news source" were like the "Kiev synagogue" being discussed below. But nm that, I'm just confused about what Vapour is referring to here. Anyway. Look at the talk page. It's pretty clear Vapour quoted selectively from a source, omitting a very relevant part with an ellipsis (the "..."). That source was also an opinion piece, and not, as he claims a report. Finally, not that it matters but I'm getting a little tired of pointing it out, it's "Haaretz" not "Harrez" or "Harrtez". Volunteer Marek (talk) 05:07, 10 March 2014 (UTC) 2014 Ukrainian revolution discussion Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary. DRN coordinator's note: Let's terminate this discussion until all listed editors make opening statements, above. Would Sayerslle, Toddy1, and Nug please clarify what role they're playing in this discussion? If you are a party to the dispute, please list yourself in the party list and create and complete a "Summary of dispute" section for yourself, above. If you are entering as a neutral party volunteering here at DRN, please say so below this collapsed section and add your name at DRVOLUNTEERS. Once (and if) all listed editors have weighed in, please continue to refrain from continuing this discussion until a volunteer (if one of you is not taking that role) opens this case for discussion. The volunteer may or may not choose to un-collapse this collapsed discussion. Until then, the discussion should continue at the article talk page, not here. — TransporterMan (TALK) 13:36, 10 March 2014 (UTC) @Lokii - Do you have a reference to the destruction of a synagogue in Kiev - not behind a pay-wall preferably - it must have been widely reported, - I hadn't heard about thatSayerslle (talk) 10:21, 9 March 2014 (UTC) Ukraine synagogue hit by firebombs, Crimea Synagogue Vandalized Amid Ukraine Unrest, Hareidi Man Stabbed in Kiev further readingLokiiT (talk) 10:39, 9 March 2014 (UTC) I looked at the first ref and first two sentences has - 'synagogue in eastern Ukraine sustained minor damage from firebombs hurled at it by unidentified individuals' - and its 250 km south east of Kiev - so that becomes 'the destruction of a synagogue in Kiev' - its pretty obvious LokiiT = RT, imo Sayerslle (talk) 13:18, 9 March 2014 (UTC) What are you talking about? I never mentioned a synagogue in Kiev being destroyed to begin with. I just googled for what you requested and gave you the first result among others (which you could have done yourself). LokiiT (talk) 22:04, 9 March 2014 (UTC) The question they asked was "Do you have a reference to the destruction of a synagogue in Kiev". If the answer was "no", it would be better to say "no". Giving some irrelevant links was unhelpful.--Toddy1 (talk) 22:07, 9 March 2014 (UTC) The reference was not irrelevant, as it explains: "Several Ukrainian media reported erroneously that the attack happened in Kiev." LokiiT (talk) 22:11, 9 March 2014 (UTC) Maybe this is why there is antagonism here. If you had explained this, and provided the citation with the explanation, the other editors would have seen the significance.--Toddy1 (talk) 22:18, 9 March 2014 (UTC) He requested a link, I supplied one that contained all the information he needed. It's asking a bit much of me to read the article for him as well and explain it to him - that is not my job. I'm still confused about why this was even requested of me. To reiterate, I have never mentioned anything about a synagogue in Kiev being destroyed. I was just trying to be helpful, which has somehow turned into yet another venue of attack. LokiiT (talk) 22:22, 9 March 2014 (UTC) At the start , dispute overview, you linked to this version of the article [11]" and that mentions 'a synagogue in Kiev being destroyed' - so you 'mentioned' this ,as part of the text you are outraged got removed, no? Sayerslle (talk) 23:20, 9 March 2014 (UTC) No. If I had added that material myself you would have a point, but right now you're just assuming bad faith. The fact that there were erroneous reports included (made in good faith) does not mean the entire section should be blanked, which is what I object to. It just needs to be corrected. LokiiT (talk) 23:59, 9 March 2014 (UTC) I concur with Volunteer Marek that pushing of Russian government propaganda violates WP:NPOV. The Jerusalem Post reports that the Ukrainian Jewish Committee asserts that Russian claims of anti-Semitism in Crimea are lies and propaganda[12], France 24 reports that prominent Ukrainian Jews have rebuffed Putin’s anti-Semitism claims[13] and the Jewish Telegraphic Agency reports that chief rabbi of Ukraine Rabbi Yaakov Dov Bleich has accused Russia (not Ukraine) of staging anti-Semitic “provocations” in Crimea in order to justify its invasion of the former Soviet republic[14]. --Nug (talk) 10:07, 10 March 2014 (UTC) This information should be added to the section in that case. Why not help expand it? That said, those statements do not erase factual events that have been widely reported even outside of Russian media. We're to present both sides of the conflict, not favour one over the other. Russian media is no less legitimate than Ukrainian media in this conflict. That said, none of the sources that were cited were Russian media; no one is "pushing Russian propaganda". This accusation has been getting blindly thrown at virtually every report about something unflattering towards the pro-Kiev camp, regardless of where the report came from. It's getting a little old. LokiiT (talk) 11:55, 10 March 2014 (UTC) 24-hour closing notice: I'm of the opinion that this isn't quite ripe for dispute resolution in light of the state of flux of the article and the failure of the three additional editors to clarify their positions here, so could use additional discussion at the article talk page and/or a RFC before coming to mediated dispute resolution. Unless the three editors clarify their positions and someone disabuses me of that notion by 14:00 UTC on 13 14 Mar 2014, I'm going to close this listing for those reasons at or after that time. You may edit below to respond to this notice (only). Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 13:58, 12 March 2014 (UTC) Hi, I do not have chance to visit and discuss it everyday so could you give me a bit more time. My point is that attack and jews and synabogue taking place seem to be facts and well sourced. Whether that amount to antisemetic attack is disputed among several chief rabbi. One can, of course, put perspective on both side, simply censor one side as "propaganda" or to eliminate the mention of the fact that attack on jew and synagogue took place is not "kosher". Vapour (talk) 10:29, 13 March 2014 (UTC) I'm extending the closure another 24 hours per your request, but you have to remember that all we can do here is to try to help editors come to consensus. When some of them do not even care to come to the table — as is their right, no one is ever required to participate in mediated dispute resolution if they do not care to do so — there's no point in making the attempt. Request for Comment is about the only possibility for dispute resolution in that situation. Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 14:07, 13 March 2014 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Khojaly Massacre Memorial in Berlin

– This request has been open for some time and must be reviewed.

Filed by Interfase on 20:56, 11 March 2014 (UTC).

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Khojaly Massacre Memorial in Berlin (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• Interfase (talk · contribs)
• LGA (talk · contribs)
• Hablabar (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

Users LGA and Hablabar without any consensus redirected[15][16] the article about Khojaly Massacre Memorial in Berlin to the article Khojaly Massacre Memorials. The articles about this monument we have in Azerbaijani, German and Russian Wikipedias. As a result a lot of information about this memorial was just deleted. Also the image of this monument is unused and is going to be deleted. I didn't see any argumented and normal reason for redirecting. There were a lot of useful information about this monument based on independent and reliable sources. I think that the article about this memorial in Berlin must be restored. We can have both articles about the list of memorials and about each memorial (from this list) itself.

Have you tried to resolve this previously?

Discussion on the talk page: Talk:Khojaly Massacre Memorials

How do you think we can help?

I'd like an outsider to judge matters from the viewpoint of Wikipedia policies and conventions: are separate articles warranted, or not?

Summary of dispute by LGA

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

Summary of dispute by Hablabar

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

Khojaly Massacre Memorial in Berlin discussion

Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.

Chemtrail conspiracy theory

– Discussion in progress.

Filed by Johnvr4 on 21:41, 13 March 2014 (UTC).

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Chemtrail conspiracy theory (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• Johnvr4 (talk · contribs)
• Second Quantization (talk · contribs)
• Alexbrn (talk · contribs)
• TheWizardOfAhz (talk · contribs)
• Dbrodbeck (talk · contribs)
• Acroterion (talk · contribs)
• TenOfAllTrades (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

The piece is a POV entry that I am attempting to make more NPOV and consistent with sources and WP Policy. I am not up to speed on many policies and more experienced editors are removing my edits for apparently illegitimate reasons an reintroducing material that is un-sourced, POV, or abuses sources. I know I'm "right" but this is getting me into trouble that where I don't fully understand or appreciate the nuances of policy or when they should or should not be ignored. Consensus has not been reached in many areas as there are opinions unsupported by sources than there are editors looking at the source. I feel that I am improving this entry and the reversions that introduce POV poorly sourced material by more experienced editors are affecting the quality of Wikipedia. I have made many mistake in this process and I take ownership of those mistakes.

@Mark Miller, Forgive me if I have opened an incorrect dispute resolution method. I believed this was the appropriate next step in resolving our disagreements. If another resolution method is appropriate, Please direct me to it. Thank you.

Have you tried to resolve this previously?

positive: Talk page discussions and messages (entry and user), logic as persuasion, multiple sources, impeccable sources, examples negative: getting in trouble with Policy, over-reacting.

How do you think we can help?

Please decide opinion from sourced fact and entry compliance with WP policy. Decide whether consensus can be reached to introduce ideas not conveyed in sources or to violate policy. Decide whether reversion edits can be made with out legitimate reason based in policy (can edits be reverted because they are not liked or did get prior consensus.

Summary of dispute by Second Quantization

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

Considering they haven't opened a clear thread on this topic on the talk page, DR is premature, Second Quantization (talk) 21:44, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Alexbrn

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

Summary of dispute by TheWizardOfAhz

Subject has totally jumped the gun here: DR isn't warranted at this time, as the talk page (and reverted edits) clearly show that he is attempting to add material to a known fantasy conspiracy theory, and thus imply that said conspiracy has actual merit. He makes extremely wordy entries on the page's Talk, and is now attempting to use a single entry in the OED as backing for all of this.

Summary of dispute by Dbrodbeck

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Summary of dispute by Acroterion

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DR is premature. Talkpage discussions attempted by Johnvr4 are rambling, oblique references to the Oxford English Dictionary, radar-masking chaff and other tangents, and responses from Johnvr4 to inquiries have been vague at best, and clearly unsuccessful at gaining a consensus. The complainant appears to be trying to push the article into granting credence to a fringe subject using his personal interpretation/synthesis of tangential souces. He has been advised of potential fringe science sanctions. Acroterion (talk) 21:53, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

@Mark Miller: There hasn't been a full discussion because I'm damned if I understand where Johnvr4 is going on the talkpage, and he's not responded coherently when questioned. On the article side, he's trying to present a fringe conspiracy theory as fact. Acroterion (talk) 03:01, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by TenOfAllTrades

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Agree with Acroterion; this seems premature and unnecessary. A couple of days ago, I asked Johnvr4 to specifically describe the edits he thought should be made to the article, and to identify the specific sources he wished to cite in support of his proposals: [17]. I specifically noted – in both the body and the edit summary of that post – that the purpose of my request was to focus the talk page discussion on article editing (by implication, to reduce the use of the talk page for general chat and bickering about the topic). Johnvr4's immediate and direct response was make no edit proposals, but instead to demand a source supporting a talk page comment I had made back in January.

Opening a full case here would just invite Johnvr4 to (continue to) waste the time of additional editors. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 22:28, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Chemtrail conspiracy theory discussion

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Hello participants and welcome to the Dispute Resolution Noticeboard. I see an extensive discussion that began on Feb 20 with the OP posting a detailed comment that was about their concern of policy and then posted a number of sources and was met with an accusation of using the talk page as a message board. I feel this filing has sufficient discussion. I am not opening the filing. I am just pointing out that discussion does not appear to be an issue. If another volunteer disagrees I will not object to their closing. [Manual signing to avoid early opening-Mark Miller 00:16, 14 March 2014 (UTC)]

Hi User:Mark Miller, I agree that the talk page discussion has been sufficient to warrant a DRN filing. I also think a moderated discussion would be helpful in this situation. However, today the filing party has been blocked for one week, so on that basis I would recommend that this case be closed allowing the editor to refile, if they so choose, at the end of their block.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 20:34, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Marian Dawkins

– New discussion.

Filed by 124.168.48.21 on 04:12, 16 March 2014 (UTC).

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Marian Dawkins (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• DrChrissy (talk · contribs)
• Johnuniq (talk · contribs)
• Drmies (talk · contribs)
• CYl7EPTEMA777 (talk · contribs)
• timelezz (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

I'd like to draw your attention to the sockpuppetry related to a COI/OR/OWN editor DrChrissy and her gang. In summary:

-There were COI/OR case of DrChrissy on the notice boards -DrChrissy admitted she has a gang and ask other to join -CYl7EPTEMA777 identified Johnuniq as a sockpuppets -Many editors had similar negative experience with her, Drmies told other editors that she has a sockpuppet farm -Johnuniq, Drmies and other similar accounts has been follow, harass, defame editors who want to correct the POV/OWN/OR/COI problem of DrChrissy. -The gang have censor illegitimately other editors talk pages: -My edits are repeated blocked by the gang. They also revert my comments that expose their misconducts on noticeboards and other places around the site (such as edit summary). -You can see some of their censorship in the recent history of two users talk pages: CYl7EPTEMA777 and timelezz. You can also find evidence of censorship in recent edit history of 'animal welfare'. They removed normal editing summary. -The comments they censored are considered normal by multiple editors. You can see the discussion here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&oldid=597722520#What_to_do.3F -They blocked indefinitely another major editor who tried to add balance to the articles, user CYl7EPTEMA777. The reason of block was problematic. They said they found CYl7EPTEMA777's edits from IPs (without login). So they block CYl7EPTEMA777 for sockpupetry etc. -The gang is best at confounding black and white. They accuse editors for exactly what they did to others. A transparent/open discussion of the issues on wikipedia website is very difficult. Because, one side of opinions are constantly censored. The gang is in de facto control of many animal related articles. Their activity undermine the neutrality and collaboration of Wikipedia.

Links of evidences: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:DESiegel&oldid=598986273

Have you tried to resolve this previously?

Discussed extensively on the talk pages of related articles (such as animal welfare, pain in animals, Marian Dawkins). Tried to put on noticeboards too.

How do you think we can help?

Restore the transparency of discussion. Remove sock-puppets and illegitimate censorship

Summary of dispute by DrChrissy

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Summary of dispute by Johnuniq

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Summary of dispute by Drmies

A "gang"? That's news to me. This complaint would be too ridiculous to respond to if it didn't involve the continuous defamation of Dr. Chrissy by a POV warrior who, besides being unable to write proper English, can't seem to follow basic guidelines of Wikipedia editing. I'll wait and see if any of the other gang members think this is worthy of spending more time on; when we're done, we'll look at installing a big, fat rangeblock, for instance. Drmies (talk) 04:29, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

• At least four editors had similar negative experience with DrChrissy and her gang. Me, timelezz, CYl7EPTEMA777 and PraetorianFury. See their recent talk pages.
• Drmies don't have enough knowledge of science, but she always meddle her finger into scientific contents. She also like to lie, see my past message on her talk page for her past lies, she told other editors that she has a sockpuppet farm
• 'a big, fat rangeblock'? See, the only thing she can do and want to do when losing an debate is censorship. 124.170.231.48 (talk) 05:09, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by CYl7EPTEMA777

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Summary of dispute by timelezz

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Marian Dawkins discussion

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