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MP #R cleanup

There are some improvements to implement and inconsistencies to iron out in the sea of MP #Rs that Rfassbind and I have been talking about that have built up enough for another run. I'll summarize them here from my talk page for further discussion/FYI:

  1. Remove uses of {{Redr}}: Only affects a small % of MP #Rs; convert to list of {{R from ...}} templates, which are easier to search for, add, and remove than their {{Redr}} counterparts.
  2. {{NASTRO comment}}: Replace the original, hard-coded <!--Before reverting this redirect into an article, [...]--> comment with the much nicer, much more obvious, much easier to change {{NASTRO comment}}, per WP:NASTRO#Dealing with minor planets. (applicable to ~98–99% of MP #Rs)
  3. Cat-Renaming Asteroid→Minor planet: Not in this run; much broader scope than intended here.
  4. Add an empty line after #REDIRECT [[...]]: Per all examples on WP:Redirect, WP:REDCAT, {{Redr}}, {{R to list entry}}, {{R to anchor}}, etc., etc. Not sure why, but it is a standard. (for readability) (unknown % of MP #Rs, but guessing >= 50%)
  5. Finer anchors (increment by #10 or by #1?): Incrementing anchors by #100 MPs is a bit too coarse, and is a relic from when 100-entry subpages existed. Now that each page has 1000 entries, anchors incremented by #10 seems like a good compromise between what exists and adding more text to the List of minor planets pages.
    I'd like to hear what more people think about #1 vs. #10, both in terms of page size increase, and in terms of which is more natural/easy to see/aesthetically pleasing/etc.
    As for page size increases:
    1. #1 anchors (id=001, id=002, id=003, etc.) add:
      990 new anchors × 6 bytes/anchor = 5,940 b = 5.801 kB,
      or 0.86% of the current list-page size of ~675 kB.
      Also easier/more straight-forward to implement/check/etc.
       Will start this today.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  15:14, 28 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
       Prep done.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  21:55, 28 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    2. #10 anchors (id=001, id=011, id=021, etc.) add:
      80 new anchors × 6 bytes/anchor = 480 b = 0.469 kB,
      or 0.07% of the current list-page size of ~675 kB.
       Not done.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  15:14, 28 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  6. Add #R templates/replace redundant #R templates:
    1. {{R to anchor}} auto-populates {{R unprintworthy}}; ensure the former exists but not the latter, via fix #2.
    2. Now would be a good time to add any others. 'Default' templates can be added at any time to {{NASTRO comment}} (fix #2).

  ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  16:09, 23 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

For point 4, it is just a recommended style. From WP:REDCAT, For clarity, all category links should be added at the end of the page, after the redirect statement and rcat(s). Use of blank lines between these promotes readability of the code. --Mark viking (talk) 17:21, 23 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thx Tom for the introduction/summary:

  1. no Redr-templates. Agreed. However, I'll make an alternative proposal below.
  2. new NASTRO-comment template: the recently revised template has now a clickable link to WP:NASTRO. Maybe there are some more improvements to make? E.g for those ~2,000 newly created #R, the text passage "before reverting this redirect" does not make a lot of sense.
  3. category-rename: this is a big one. There are many categories with an unfortunate naming. E.g "Discoverers of asteroids" and "Discoverers of minor planets" (not used in MP#Rs) both make sense but bite each other: what about an astronomer that discovered both main-belt asteroids and trans-Neptunian objects? What about an astronomer that discovered 327 minor planets; who's going to verify each and every item to make sure that all are asteroids?
  4. Anchors in LOMP (list of minor planets). I'm fine with 1-step rather than 10-step anchors. I've come to the conclusion, that my initial 10-er proposal is unpractical for several reasons... I was simply wrong. Maybe there is an elegant way to set staggered anchors in the LOMP-table, so that the referred table row is not at the uppermost edge of the screen... ? As to the empty 2nd line, the Redr template states "please leave this line blank for emphasis and ease of reading by editors", which makes sense to me.

Proposal, yesterday I was thinking about an integrated NASTRO-comment template (see not so serious example in the sandbox). I feel like we should only have one single template for all MP#Rs, with some additional parameters, so future changes would be much simpler. Of course this somehow might complicate an easy search.. but it would make things so much easier, wouldn't it?! Rfassbind – talk 17:47, 23 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

For #2, I changed {{NASTRO comment}}'s Before reverting this redirect to Before turning this redirect (it feels so good having templates around).
As for an all-inclusive NASTRO/MP#R template, that's an interesting idea worth considering. I'm not familiar enough with template recursion to know what the problems may be. Hopefully others can chime in.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  19:49, 23 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
For the {{NASTRO comment}}, instead of a hardcoded Before turning this redirect, we could use a dynamically displayed Before turning '''{{bigger|{{PAGENAME}}}} ''' (see example for recent MP#R 6018 Pierssac). As for the proposed all-in-one NASTRO-template, I don't know if it's feasible, either ("recursion"), but since you're an template-editor, I'm confident you'll figure it out soon. Rfassbind – talk 09:16, 24 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No problems found recursing.
An all-in-one template would have the 2 'default' R templates ({{R to list entry}} & {{R to anchor}}). While first going through the MP#Rs there was an incredible amount of inconsistency, and one of those inconsistencies was a missing anchor. We and others have cleaned that up, but I'm worried (albeit a small worry) that pages including the all-in-one template may omit the anchor (i.e. by an editor not familiar with the template or simply careless) leading to miscategorized pages. This can apply to any of the templates we deem 'default'. In other words, having the individual R templates visible makes it easier to see & check the page, but harder to manage (editing many, many pages instead of just 1). If this isn't a concern for you or anyone else, or the pros outweight the cons, then I'll incorporate it into the run.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  14:56, 24 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I wouldn't say an incredible amount of inconsistencies, since we both have invested so much time and energy in the last, say 8 months, to considerably improve minor planet redirects (MP#Rs) and related things (categories and #R-target pages). There are indeed some changes we both have made in the process (such as the usage of the unprintworthy, the anchor, and now the NASTRO-comment template). This is exactly why such an all-in-one template (AIO-tpl) would be of great help, since every time we make up our mind for a better solution we wouldn't need to update 20 thousand redirects.
However an AIO-tpl should also include about 2000+ avoided double redirects (moved from provisional, title without diacritical marks, incorrect name, alternative spelling) with the corresponding <!-- Do not categorize this page, to avoid duplication. --> and an additional name-parameter for the correct name. I think it is not that difficult to create such an AIO-tpl, but we need to agree on that first. Rfassbind – talk 20:43, 24 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Agree for adding a parameter for the 'avoid double redirect' comment, perhaps |do-not-cat=yes or |dont-cat=yes? This would then replace the usual NASTRO comment with the "don't cat" one (I like the one you made in the sandbox).
I don't agree on having another parameter which accepts the correct name, for 2 reasons:
  1. The correct name should already exist in the appropriate R template (avoided double redirect, incorrect name, etc.), so including it somewhere else is another, and unnecessary, source of error.
  2. I wouldn't want to include those secondary R templates (avoided double redirect, incorrect name, etc.) in the AIO-tpl (which might otherwise be seen as the next appropriate thing to do), since those are in the minority, and doing so doesn't make managing any easier (i.e. each page still needs to be edited/checked individually for either the R template or for the correct R-template-parameter).
  ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  15:14, 25 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

OK, let's forget about an all-in-one template, that's fine with me. I see you already implemented all missing anchors, well done. If you want me to file a bot-request or adjust the example at WP:DWMP, just let me know. Thx Rfassbind – talk 12:42, 30 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I'm starting this today so no need.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  13:42, 30 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
 Done 21,484 MP #Rs updated, 2924 MP articles skipped.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  15:10, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

UGC 10 proposed for deletion.

Just realised that the deletion proposal for UGC 10 may not have been seen by astro-folks since the article is unassessed. Lithopsian (talk) 20:08, 24 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Solar radii vs radiuses

There's a discussion at the {{convert}} talk page regarding the plural of radius. Currently (and in my humble opinion somewhat absurdly), the template is giving us radiuses rather than the etymologically correct radii. Apparently, Webster lists radiuses as an acceptable alternative. Be that as it may, I'm pretty sure that radii is the more common plural especially amongst educated people (the more likely audience of articles on astronomy). Perhaps it's an ENVAR issue, though, maybe radiuses is used in American English. So, the viable options are the following (in order of my preference).

  1. Change the pluralisation from radiuses to radii.
  2. Make the default pluralisation radii with radiuses as an option.
  3. Leave the pluralisation as radiuses.

What thoughts have ye? Jimp 03:29, 26 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'm the one who originally raised the question, so probably no surprise that I'd like a change. Out of the choices, I'd go for the first one, but I have no objection to giving people the option to have the alternate plural form. There might be contexts where solar radiuses is the normal usage and I wouldn't want to impose a blanket ban on that form. Lithopsian (talk) 12:05, 27 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
To me, 'radiuses' sounds like a colloquialism, but apparently it's a valid usage. I've always seen 'radii' used in the scientific context, and generally prefer it. Praemonitus (talk) 19:20, 27 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
+1 for radii. I never heard radiuses used in any half-decent written piece, and especially not in scientific writing (at all levels). Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 19:23, 27 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Although technically using anglicized plural forms of words of latin origin is acceptable, in this case google ngram is quit unambiguous about what the most common usage in English is. PS. if you ever see somebody use "casi" as the plural of "casus" please make fun of them.TR 19:28, 27 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
... or bi for buses ... Jimp 23:43, 27 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Mostly from what I've seen on Wikipedia is radii and not 'radiuses'. I think all uses of 'radiuses' should be changed to radii for consistency purposes as it appears to be more commonly used both in Wikipedia and scientific literature. Davidbuddy9Talk 21:45, 30 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with TR, while both uses are valid, Google Ngrams shows that one is heavily favored and thus should be our standard here. A2soup (talk) 22:16, 30 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. The issue has been settled and convert now uses "solar radii" for the plural name. Johnuniq (talk) 00:26, 1 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Exoplanet

I have nominated Exoplanet for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. DrKay (talk) 08:27, 26 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'm done with my leg of this race. Anyone else want to pick up the batton? Most of DrKay's original concerns still need addressing (except the bit about citations).   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  00:34, 16 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Looking for feedback on a tool on Visual Editor to add open license text from other sources

Hi all

I'm designing a tool for Visual Editor to make it easy for people to add open license text from other sources, there are a huge number of open license sources compatible with Wikipedia including around 9000 journals. I can see a very large opportunity to easily create a high volume of good quality articles quickly. I have done a small project with open license text from UNESCO as a proof of concept, any thoughts, feedback or endorsements (on the Meta page) would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

--John Cummings (talk) 14:37, 28 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

UGC 10 notability

Is an actual galaxy automatically notable? I am thinking that it is - however I am not sure how this project views such matters. UGC 10 is currently at AfD, [1]. Steve Quinn (talk) 07:00, 30 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Not automatically, and not even if it has a name. Wikipedia:Notability (astronomical objects) has the answers. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 12:21, 30 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Graeme Bartlett: Thanks. ---Steve Quinn (talk) 15:36, 1 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject Astronomy Newsletter Q2 2016

Artists impression of the TRAPPIST-1 system, a major exoplanet discovery in Q2 2016.
Next →

Welcome to the first WikiProject Astronomy Newsletter!

The project at a glance

At the end of Q2 2016 the project has reached:

  • Increase 113 Featured articles
  • Increase 14 Featured lists
  • Steady 6 Featured miscellaneous
  • Increase 174 Good Articles
  • Increase 45,161 total articles
  • Negative increase 3,274 (or 8%) are marked for cleanup
  • Negative increase 4,767 issues in total.

News by month

April 2016

April 2016 featured the discovery of 2MASS J1119–1137 a rogue planet discovered by the Carnegie Institution for Science and Western University of Ontario, Canada on April 6th. Also in April, the Crater 2 dwarf galaxy had been discovered from imaging data from the VST ATLAS survey making it the now fourth largest satellite of the Milky Way.

May 2016

May 2016 was a big month for Exoplanetology, starting on May 2nd 2016 with the discovery of the TRAPPIST-1 system (Pictured) featuring TRAPPIST-1b, 1c and 1d which lead to these new articles being created, as well as Ultra-cool dwarf which was translated from French Wikipedia. On May 10th, 2016 NASA announced 1,284 new exoplanets which lead to the creation of articles for Kepler-1229b and Kepler-1638b, both of which are located in their system's circumstellar habitable zone.

Other created articles in May includes Astro microbiology, TYC 9486-927-1, DENIS J082303.1-491201 (translated from French Wikipedia), NGC 5343, NGC 6452, NGC 137, NGC 138, NGC 139, NGC 140, NGC 141, IC 4499, Locomotion in Space, NGC 4388, 171 Puppis, Elisa Quintana, Halil Kayikci, HELIOS Lab, and Utpala (astronomer).

June 2016

File:V830 Tau b.jpg
An artist's impression of the extremely young exoplanet V830 Tau b.

On June 4th 2016 Circinus was the daily featured article (See blurb), and on June 21st, 2016 Sidney Hall - Urania's Mirror - Draco and Ursa Minor was the featured image on the English Wikipedia.

In June 2016, NASA announced the discovery of the exoplanet Kepler-1647b orbiting around in a circumbinary orbit around an F-type star; the typing of the other star in the system is unknown. V830 Tau b was also discovered in June 2016 orbing around a very young T Tauri star with an incredibly young age of approximately 2 million years.

Other articles created in June include; Jean-François du Soleil, Shawn Domagal-Goldman, Tidal downsizing, ESO Supernova Planetarium & Visitor Centre, AGC 198691, Abell 2597, MACHO 176.18833.411, NGC 152, Astronomy Photographer of the Year, Karan Jani, CVSO 30, Adriaan Wesselink, Laura A. Lopez, Heather A. Knutson, Jiong Qiu, Tracy Slatyer, Rachel Mandelbaum, Sarah T. Stewart-Mukhopadhyay, Jenny Greene, Sara Ellison, Emily Levesque, Smadar Naoz, Yūko Kakazu, Kristen Sellgren, Kimmo Innanen, Ruth Murray-Clay, Henry "Trae" Winter, 2016 HO3, Sentinel-4, GW151226, WR 93b, WR 30a, Prairie Observatory, Mineralogy of Mars, Edith Alice Müller, Athena Coustenis, Global catastrophic risk, Christina Richey, Ann Hornschemeier, Katherine Reeves, W Aquilae, TV Geminorum, HV 11423, BC Cygni, International Center for Relativistic Astrophysics, RW Cygni, Nadia Zakamska, Vassiliki Kalogera, UGC 10, 22899 Alconrad, Galileo's telescopes, Aomawa Shields, Tommaso Perelli, Antonio Santucci, François de Baillou, List of minor planets: 469001–470000, List of star systems within 25–30 light-years, NGC 6120, V419 Cephei, BI Cygni, List of Gotland-related asteroids, Extrasolar atmosphere, List of gravitational wave observations, NGC 142.
This is a trial run of the WP:AST Newsletter. To start or stop receiving these messages on your talk page please add or remove your username from the subscription page.
Davidbuddy9Talk 01:10, 1 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Notice to participants at this page about adminship

Many participants here create a lot of content, have to evaluate whether or not a subject is notable, decide if content complies with BLP policy, and much more. Well, these are just some of the considerations at Wikipedia:Requests for adminship.

So, please consider taking a look at and watchlisting this page:

You could be very helpful in evaluating potential candidates, and maybe even finding out if you would be a suitable RfA candidate.

Many thanks and best wishes,

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:04, 4 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Opinions needed about the list of exoplanets

I have started a discussion about information contained in the List of exoplanets and its necessity in the article. Your input on the subject is appreciated. Primefac (talk) 01:48, 7 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Extrasolar atmosphere vs Extraterrestrial atmospheres RfC

You are invited to discuss this issue in the relevant RfC located here. Davidbuddy9Talk 05:08, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Crater start/stub classifications

When removing stub tags from start-or-higher-class articles, I noticed a lot of very short articles classified as start. All of these are < 100 words, but most/all are very well referenced. I just want to make sure their start-class is deserving. If not, I'll put back the stub tags. Here they are:

70 start-class crater articles with < 100 words

  ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  00:36, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Since they have a stack of external links, text, infobox and a picture, they would be beyond a stub. However note that the external links for these articles looks to be all the same, and I suspect that there are just passing mentions in these linked stuff. There is a lack of referencing to say where the information came from. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 08:30, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Some caution here. They have a stack of references because they used to have an infobox that included a stack of generic references about the moon. After that template was revised, each article now has those references directly (not cited inline) whether they are relevant or not. Looks impressive, but is almost completely useless. The infoboxes are basic catalogue entries, possibly mass-produced, although most of the articles do have an image of the actual crater. I would base the classification largely on the body of the article, which varies from stub to start in the articles I looked at. The first one (Abetti) is one of the shorter ones - I would rate it stub, but it contains more than a definition and you can make a case that it should be start (after all, how much can you say about a ghost crater on the moon?). Consistency might be more important than having an absolutist argument about shades of grey. See crater stubs. Lithopsian (talk) 08:58, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Defining inner and outer main-belt asteroids on wikipedia

Definition MCA
by a, q and Q 		Semi-major axis (a) in AU Refs
inner MBA middle MBA outer MBA
Asteroid belt § Kirkwood gaps (i) undefined 2.06 ≤ a ≥ 2.5 2.5 ≤ a ≥ 2.82 2.82 ≤ a ≥ 3.28 by Kirkwood gaps, boundaries at 3:1 resonance (2.5 AU) and 5:2 resonance (2.82 AU)
Asteroid belt § Kirkwood gaps (ii) undefined < 2.5 none undefined alternative definition mentioned
Asteroid belt § Kirkwood gaps (iii) undefined < 3.3 none > 3.3 alternative definition mentioned
CALL – LCDB 1.3 < q < 1.668
Q < 5.0 		a < 2.6 2.6 < a < 2.7 a > 2.7 LCDB readme – 2. Taxonomic Class, orbital class, and albedo
JPL SBDB 1.3 < q < 1.666
a < 3.2 		a < 2.0
q > 1.666 AU 		— 3.2 < a < 4.6 MCAs and inner-MBAs are mutually exclusive due to limit on q

I plan to colorize the List of minor planets (example). As far as I know, we do not clearly define the terms "inner" and "outer" main-belt asteroid (MBA) on wikipedia. There are several alternatives mentioned in Asteroid belt § Kirkwood gaps, which all differ from the given definitions at LCDB and JPL (see an incomplete summary above). Also, the definition of a Mars-crosser (MCA) varies (while on JPL, for example, MCAs and MBAs are mutually exclusive, here on wikipedia, an asteroid can be a near-Earth object, a Mars-crosser and a main-belt asteroid all at once).

I suggest to thoroughly discuss, whether or not we should define the usage of these orbital classifications on wikipedia. Otherwise there will be no guideline and this post will serve as justification to classify an asteroid whichever way seems to fit best. Rfassbind – talk 13:09, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Why not use asteroid zones?[2] Praemonitus (talk) 15:53, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I like the idea of using color to add extra dimensions to the list. I can't see the difference between the MBA color (#f9f9f9) & the iMBA color (#fff) though.
As for Mars-crossers, I've seen some of JPL's MCAs identified by the MPC as main-belt (one more inconsistency to add to the list). I'm reluctant to support large-scale changes based on a potentially unstable/non-standard taxonomy, but I don't know how pervasive this discrepancy is. If it only affects a small minority, say, < 10% of what either JPL or MPC call MCAs, that's fine, since there are hardly any outlier-free orbit classifications. If it's a significant fraction, though, that's too ambiguous for an encyclopedia imo.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  13:41, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You do realize that minor planets can change their orbital category over time as a result of perturbations by the rest of the solar system? Urhixidur (talk) 13:07, 25 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Changes are not a problem as the 470,000 entries in the list of minor planets are not updated manually. Changes in orbital classification are rather insignificant compared to other changes such as the monthly update of newly named minor planets, the linkage due to the redirection/creation of articles, or the re-assignment of discovery credits by the MPC. Rfassbind – talk 01:38, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Asteroids by source of name migration to Category:Minor planets by source of name

In an attempt to reconcile Category:Minor planets named for rivers with the Category:Asteroids by source of name tree (which contains asteroids named: from literature, for people, for places, of unknown origin), and to generalize Category:Asteroids by source of name, I'm thinking about migrating this category and its subcats to the Category:Minor planets by source of name tree, and leaving category redirects to the new corresponding MP cats. Does anyone see a problem with this? Pinging the relevant cats' creators Rfassbind & Jnestorius.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  19:32, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I have not an objection but a caution. Do you realise there are 10,563 pages in Category:Asteroids named for people that will need to be edited? Is there a bot for this? jnestorius(talk) 08:57, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I will perform the migration properly, as I have done in the past.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  11:55, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes Tom, plz do the changes. Unfortunately, some years ago when many articles, lists and categories were changed from "asteroid" to the broader "minor planet" classification term, nobody seems to have raised a word of caution how much work this would actually cause. Now, we (still) struggle with this "often-but-not-always" redundant double term. So thanks for tackling these challenging issues! In addition:
Again, thx Tom, Rfassbind – talk 19:03, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Responses:
  1. Absolutely; I will include it in the migration.
  2. Category:Minor planets named for organizations seems fine.
  3. Category:Minor planets named for things (?) (supercomputers, OSs, etc.) +
    Category:Minor planets named for observatories (90022 Apache Point) +
    Category:Minor planets named for miscellany as the catch-all
  4. I originally wanted this too, but there was no support for it 6 months ago (Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Astronomy/Category maintenance 1#Category:Numbered asteroids Maintenance). There was support against this actually. You're of course welcome to argue again for it.
  5. Sounds good to me!   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  00:20, 16 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Will start this today probably.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  15:17, 18 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Bulk completed 12 hrs ago and finishing touches recently.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  03:06, 20 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Well done. There must have been thousands of edits. Let's talk about the potential new categories (above) somewhere else, since this does not seem to be of any concern to other editors at the moment. Rfassbind – talk 18:51, 21 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

UAO-DLR or Uppsala-DLR?

I left messages at Talk:UAO-DLR Asteroid Survey & Talk:Uppsala–DLR Trojan Survey 11 days ago but no bites.

The discrepancy is that UAO-DLR Asteroid Survey & Uppsala–DLR Trojan Survey (and their corresponding named-categories) should be either:

  1. UAO-DLR Asteroid Survey & UAO–DLR Trojan Survey, or
  2. Uppsala-DLR Asteroid Survey (currently a #REDIRECT) & Uppsala–DLR Trojan Survey,

since they both use the Uppsala Astronomical Observatory (UAO). What does everyone else think?   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  21:22, 18 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

My !vote would be for option 2, since it gives the name of the observatory and isn't just one big acronym. Primefac (talk) 02:45, 19 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I like option 2 too.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  16:38, 21 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, the MPC also uses "Uppsala-DLR Asteroid Survey" and "Uppsala-DLR Trojan Survey" (MPC and MPC). I suggest to move UAO-DLR Asteroid Survey to Uppsala–DLR Asteroid Survey (dashed version, currently a redlink, so no swapping needed) and adjust things correspondingly. Rfassbind – talk 18:38, 21 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Just be sure to mention 'UAO–DLR' in the lead paragraph of Uppsala-DLR Asteroid Survey. Urhixidur (talk) 13:05, 25 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

MinorPlanetNameMeaningsDisclaimer tweak

There's additional text after {{MinorPlanetNameMeaningsDisclaimer}} that I see in all but 22 21 of the 459 Meanings of minor planet names pages, "Minor planets not yet given a name have not been included in this list.". All of the 22 21 are in the <=10,000-range, with the exception of 43001–44000:

All 22 21 meanings-pages missing the additional text
2

Since this sentence seems like a good one to include in the disclaimer template, my questions are:

  1. Is/was someone using this sentence for tracking purposes, removing it from pages when they have been checked for name-completeness? (I have not doubled-checked)
    1. If so, would using {{incomplete list}}, or similar, be a better alternative?
      1. If so, I can add the sentence to {{MinorPlanetNameMeaningsDisclaimer}} and replace it on existing pages with {{incomplete list}} (at the top of the page).
      2. If not, do nothing.
    2. If not, I can add the sentence to {{MinorPlanetNameMeaningsDisclaimer}} and remove it from existing pages (all of which have the disclaimer template).

I was originally going to post this at the disclaimer template's talk page, but its traffic history is quite barren (aside from yesterday).

Pinging Ilvon, Urhixidur, Frietjes, W.carter, Kwamikagami, Jodosma, & exoplanetaryscience, whom I've seen contribute a great deal to these pages. Apologies if I missed anyone else as prolific.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  17:49, 21 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Do what you think is best Tom, I have no dog in this fight. ;) w.carter-Talk 18:10, 21 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Checking is easy: just count the lines in the Meanings table. As minor planet states, "As of June 2016, the lowest-numbered unnamed minor planet is (3708) 1974 FV1", which explains 9 of the 22 cases you've found. The pages in the 6001 to 10,000 range do not have any unnumberedunnamed minor planets, which explains another number of cases. The remaining lower-numbered cases occur because the unnamed minor planets are included in the lists (with entries consisting of just an em-dash). Starting with 10 000, the unnamed minor planets became too frequent, so they were excluded from the lists altogether, hence the additional disclaimer. 43001–44000 is a mistake on your part: the text does appear on it. Urhixidur (talk) 18:22, 21 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, I didn't see it on 43001–44000 due to the added emphasis (that I've now standardized).
Also, the unnamed ones have entries with an en dash instead of an em dash.
So, in short, option 1.1.2 (do nothing) sounds like the right choice.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  19:05, 21 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I only made minor changes to the table formatting and the addition of a nav box. Please feel free to continue as you see fit. Jodosma (talk) 21:14, 22 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Good team work, everybody! Is this issue closed now? Urhixidur (talk) 12:59, 25 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved
 – Do nothing.
  ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  13:23, 26 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Citing papers as references to spectral types - is it in violation of WP:OR?

Some editors feel as though listing spectral types based on a paper is in violation of WP:NOR (for example, see this edit on Kepler-1229). Frankly, I don't really see a problem with this as it would only be in violation if it was unsourced, or taken from an unreliable source. In these cases, this reference, this one (at bottom of paper), are considered reliable. This one could also be in the batch as it seems more reliable (and more recent, as proven when I put that url into the Wayback Machine - it was created sometime in 2008). I would like to hear from some of the editors here to see how they feel about this. --MarioProtIV (talk/contribs) 15:50, 24 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • There's a difference between citing a paper that says "Kepler 12345 is a K0V star" and finding one that lists its temperature, running to another source that matches temperatures with spectral types, and connecting the dots. Reyk YO! 19:30, 24 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pretty much as Reyk said. WP:CALC allows routine calculation, which is what allows the infobox to convert parallax to distance. But interpreting spectra should be left to the experts. Praemonitus (talk) 02:13, 25 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • BTW, the 'b-v' color value lies between what one could expect for an M2 to M3 class star.[3] Praemonitus (talk)
  • "Citing papers" is fine, but if you were Looking up a spectral type based on a temperaure as the other editor claims, that does fall under WP:OR and WP:SYN. Once it is challenged you need source that directly supports the claim without interpretation. That can suck when adding good information, but consider the flip side. We need that rule to be strong to firmly terminate any argument when someone tries to add bad info. We do not open the quagmire of arguing who's right. Alsee (talk) 12:59, 25 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Something came up on the Italian Wikipedia when I was checking a star page, it listed the spectral type for Kepler-419 as F7V based on some file listed as a reference, yet the only parameters we know of Kepler-419 is that it is an F-type main sequence star. The user reverted my edit and left this message on my talk page, which i translated to:

About this: First of changes on en-wiki talk here, and in Italian, and second thing if you do not know calculate the site PHL brightness honestly it's not my problem (it is actually the first computer), plus coincidentally the brightness is the same, partly because OA source of en.wiki is always taken by the PHL, and we 2.64 against 2.65, then zero problems. Who is not allowed to use the source of Mamajek to extract the spectral type is your opinion, at least 2 years I had spoken with another person while you are here you have not talked about anything

— Kirk39 (talk · contribs)
The key word in the Mamajek reference is "mean". Just because you know the average temperature of K7 stars, doesn't mean that a star of that temperature has a K7 spectral type. Spectral types should be derived from a spectrum :) If a progessional astronomer publishes a spectral type derived in some other ways then so be it we';ll quote them, but we shouldn't be doing that sort of non-trivial non-precise calculation ourselves. Even if we think we "know" the spectral type, WP:NOTTRUTH applies. As for Italian Wikipedia, well I imagine they do whatever they can get away with just like everyone else :) Lithopsian (talk) 21:23, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, ok, yeah I don't think the Italian Wikipedia has as much ground rules as the major one (English) has, so I think we're the luckier ones :D --MarioProtIV (talk/contribs) 21:59, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The PHL calculator was only broken on my end since I was using windows 10 so thats not an issue anymore, but the spectral type issue is still valid. How is the Italian Wikipedia allowed to cite spectral type files as references to determine the spectral type? --MarioProtIV (talk/contribs) 20:47, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Minor planet occultation records

In terms of satisfying WP:GNG for a minor planet, the Worldwide Asteroidal Occultation Observations and Resources site could be a useful resource for certain cases. Presumably though we'd want to limit it to entries where there are multiple successful observations during an event with at least a couple of intersecting chords and a published asteroid profile. What do you think? Perhaps an editor wants to put together a table template for listing useful details about an asteroid occultation? (Date, time, total observers, # insersecting chords, image link, &c) Praemonitus (talk) 00:16, 26 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Lynx (constellation)

Lynx (constellation) is going very slowly at FAC (see Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Lynx (constellation)/archive1) anyone with an interest in astronomy is urged to come vet it.....sigh Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 15:20, 26 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The article has been promoted. Congratulations. Praemonitus (talk) 22:18, 19 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

One of your project's articles has been selected for improvement!

Hello,
Please note that History of the constellations, which is within this project's scope, has been selected as one of Today's articles for improvement. The article was scheduled to appear on Wikipedia's Community portal in the "Today's articles for improvement" section for one week, beginning today. Everyone is encouraged to collaborate to improve the article. Thanks, and happy editing!
Delivered by — MusikBot talk 00:07, 1 August 2016 (UTC) on behalf of the TAFI team[reply]

Category:Asteroids named as an award has been nominated for discussion

Category:Asteroids named as an award, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. RevelationDirect (talk) 01:12, 6 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It has been relisted here.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  02:48, 1 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Named minor planets tree

Category to be created & subcats populated soon with both MP articles and MP #Rs, based on suggestion from Rfassbind & discussion, barring any objections.

hildren include, but aren't limited to:

  ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  14:19, 8 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Suggestion Category:Stars with proper names tends to be stars visible with the naked eye from Earth (or at least stars from constellations that have some stars visible from Earth). For Wikipedia readers who are--let's face it--mostly on Earth, that might aid navigation. I'm not clear on how named centaurs are physically different than the ones with numbers assigned to them. You don't need my permission to create categories of course, but it might be worth seeing how the discussions (above and below) turn out if creating these would be time consuming. RevelationDirect (talk) 02:00, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • RevelationDirect, at least we can agree that 'Named minor planets' is a significant category. To make that category more tractable, since it will contain ~20,000 entries, it would be useful to subdivide it into its major components. What determines a "major" component, however, I'll leave up to others.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  20:39, 14 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thx compared to the existing 20,071 named minor planets, there is a gap of 91 (0.5%) missing items. I'll try to narrow it down. Rfassbind – talk 14:51, 19 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Minor planets named for members of The Beatles has been nominated for discussion

Category:Minor planets named for members of The Beatles, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. RevelationDirect (talk) 12:29, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

But not Category:Minor planets named for members of Monty Python? Praemonitus (talk) 20:41, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Praemonitus: Another editor raised concerns about that category in the discussion too. RevelationDirect (talk) 01:52, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Minor planets named for members of Monty Python now at CfD here.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  19:46, 18 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Members of the Yamaneko Group of Comet Observers has been nominated for discussion

Category:Members of the Yamaneko Group of Comet Observers, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. RevelationDirect (talk) 02:32, 28 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Minor issue at Metis

There was a brief bit of confusion by an editor at Metis (moon), I think I've cleared it up but there are content issues which could possibly use a second opinion. The discussion is here. Primefac (talk) 02:21, 30 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

GAR for Tycho Brahe

Tycho Brahe, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for an individual good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. More details are available on the re-assessment page. Please ping me if you need anything as my watchlist is already quite large and I'd prefer not to add seven or eight more wikiprojects to my watchlist on top of the ones that I already have. Mr rnddude (talk) 23:37, 2 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Natural Satellites (Moons) Article is Critically Flawed

I don't know where else to put this. Searching for moons redirects to natural satellites. When you get to the page, it says natural satellites 'otherwise known as moons'...and then explains that the Earth counts as a natural satellite. If you read the article however, the vast majority of the facts contained (there are 173 natural satellites in our solar system, Titan is the only one with a dense atmosphere, on and on) are only true if 'natural satellites' do not include planets and other orbiting bodies. It seems very clear to me that the 'moons' article was simply renamed 'natural satellites'. If it's actually a truth in Astronomy that 'natural satellite' means moon, then the line explaining that the Earth is a natural satellite needs to go. If the truth is rather that natural satellites include all solid bodies orbiting a smaller body (planets, moons, dwarf planets and so on), then the entire article needs to be re-written because huge chunks of it are false. This would also mean the redirect of 'moons' to the Natural Satellites article should go away, and that moons should have their own article again (just like planets, dwarf planets, and every other kind of 'natural satellite' on this defintiion does). Obviously rewriting a moon article is the least desirable option, since we have a perfectly good article about moons already- it just happens to be called 'natural satellites' for some reason.

Please be aware also that the article for the moon Titan states that it is the only natural satellite in our solar system that has a dense atmosphere. If 'natural satellites' includes planets, this is obviously absurd.

Agkistro (talk) 22:07, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Did you catch the article at an unfortunate time while it was effectively being vandalised? Cutting through the current edit war, the last sentence of the definition states that planets are generally excluded, and that's how the rest of the article reads. Lithopsian (talk) 22:21, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm the 'vandal' trying to fix your messed up article. "generally excluding planets" isn't nearly good enough to fix this mess, because that implies that things like dwarf planets, minor planets, asteroids and so on are all still included since they orbit a larger body. The paragraph immediately after your 'generally excludes planets' quote states that there are 174 natural satellites in the solar system, which is only true if you include moons and only moons- there are 200 dwarf planets alone, for example. There is a 'list of natural satellites' article, and that list includes moons and only moons. If the definition of 'natural satellite' is the one I keep deleting- any natural object in orbit around a larger body, it also makes no sense to open with 'also called moons', or to redirect searches for 'moons' to this page. Planets, Dwarf planets, asteroids, minor planets, comets and so on all get their own article, why don't moons get their own article? Answer: this used to be that article.

Agkistro (talk) 22:59, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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