Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard: Difference between revisions
→Summary of dispute by TenTonParasol: own section |
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{{DR case status}} |
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{{drn filing editor|Felsic2|14:46, 22 July 2016 (UTC)}} |
{{drn filing editor|Felsic2|14:46, 22 July 2016 (UTC)}} |
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{{DRN archive top|General close. There are too many comments on contributors, and there doesn't appear to be much interest in sticking to a discussion of content. If the editors do want to discuss content only, they may request [[WP:RFM|formal mediation]], where a trained mediator may be able to demand that they stick absolutely to content. Alternatively, if there is a content issue, a [[WP:RFC|Request for Comments]] can be published. Since [[WP:AC/DS|discretionary sanctions]] apply to any discussion of firearms legislation, any conduct issues should probably be taken to [[WP:AE|arbitration enforcement]]. [[User:Robert McClenon|Robert McClenon]] ([[User talk:Robert McClenon|talk]]) 02:46, 25 July 2016 (UTC)}} |
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<span style="font-size:110%">'''Have you discussed this on a talk page?'''</span> |
<span style="font-size:110%">'''Have you discussed this on a talk page?'''</span> |
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*'''Volunteer note''' - Will the editors please keep their comments prior to the case being opened to a minimum, and confine them to content? I have one question for each editor before a moderator opens the case: Are each of you willing to engage in moderated discussion? [[User:Robert McClenon|Robert McClenon]] ([[User talk:Robert McClenon|talk]]) 20:15, 23 July 2016 (UTC) |
*'''Volunteer note''' - Will the editors please keep their comments prior to the case being opened to a minimum, and confine them to content? I have one question for each editor before a moderator opens the case: Are each of you willing to engage in moderated discussion? [[User:Robert McClenon|Robert McClenon]] ([[User talk:Robert McClenon|talk]]) 20:15, 23 July 2016 (UTC) |
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::I don't really see the point; there's already a consensus here that Felsic's edits do not belong on the page, he seems to just be trying to go somewhere else to get someone to overrule that. [[User:Herr Gruber|Herr Gruber]] ([[User talk:Herr Gruber|talk]]) 07:49, 24 July 2016 (UTC) |
::I don't really see the point; there's already a consensus here that Felsic's edits do not belong on the page, he seems to just be trying to go somewhere else to get someone to overrule that. [[User:Herr Gruber|Herr Gruber]] ([[User talk:Herr Gruber|talk]]) 07:49, 24 July 2016 (UTC) |
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{{DRN archive bottom}} |
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== ill-considered accusations of impropriety == |
== ill-considered accusations of impropriety == |
Revision as of 02:47, 25 July 2016
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Welcome to the dispute resolution noticeboard (DRN) | ||||||||||||
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This is an informal place to resolve small content disputes as part of dispute resolution. It may also be used as a tool to direct certain discussions to more appropriate forums, such as requests for comment, or other noticeboards. You can ask a question on the talk page. This is an early stop for most disputes on Wikipedia. You are not required to participate, however, the case filer must participate in all aspects of the dispute or the matter will be considered failed. Any editor may volunteer! Click this button to add your name! You don't need to volunteer to help. Please feel free to comment below on any case. Be civil and remember; Maintain Wikipedia policy: it is usually a misuse of a talk page to continue to argue any point that has not met policy requirements. Editors must take particular care adding information about living persons to any Wikipedia page. This may also apply to some groups. Noticeboards should not be a substitute for talk pages. Editors are expected to have had extensive discussion on a talk page (not just through edit summaries) to work out the issues before coming to DRN.
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Case | Created | Last volunteer edit | Last modified | ||||
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Title | Status | User | Time | User | Time | User | Time |
Rafida | In Progress | Albertatiran (t) | 32 days, 23 hours | Robert McClenon (t) | 13 hours | Albertatiran (t) | 10 hours |
Methylphenidate | Closed | Димитрий Улянов Иванов (t) | 8 days, 19 hours | Robert McClenon (t) | 3 days, 19 hours | Robert McClenon (t) | 3 days, 19 hours |
AT&T Corporation | Closed | Emiya1980 (t) | 2 days, 16 hours | Kovcszaln6 (t) | 1 days, 21 hours | Kovcszaln6 (t) | 1 days, 21 hours |
If you would like a regularly-updated copy of this status box on your user page or talk page, put {{DRN case status}} on your page. Click on that link for more options.
Last updated by FireflyBot (talk) at 02:46, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
Current disputes
Talk:Capital punishment#Blanket deletion.
Both involved editors, including the one who filed the case, have refused to participate. I do not recommend formal mediation, because it seems likely that they will refuse to participate again. It is not clear whether the issue has been resolved. If it hasn't, I recommend an RFC. KSFTC 17:34, 16 July 2016 (UTC) |
Closed discussion |
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Talk:SIG MCX#Criminal Use
General close. There are too many comments on contributors, and there doesn't appear to be much interest in sticking to a discussion of content. If the editors do want to discuss content only, they may request formal mediation, where a trained mediator may be able to demand that they stick absolutely to content. Alternatively, if there is a content issue, a Request for Comments can be published. Since discretionary sanctions apply to any discussion of firearms legislation, any conduct issues should probably be taken to arbitration enforcement. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:46, 25 July 2016 (UTC) |
Closed discussion |
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ill-considered accusations of impropriety
Closed as conduct dispute. Report incivility, including allegations of sockpuppetry, to WP:ANI. Report actual use of sockpuppets to WP:SPI. This forum is for content disputes. Robert McClenon (talk) 17:53, 22 July 2016 (UTC) |
Closed discussion |
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Talk:Arrow (season 1)#First name or last name?
Have you discussed this on a talk page?
Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.
Location of dispute
Users involved
- HamedH94 (talk · contribs)
- AussieLegend (talk · contribs)
- TenTonParasol (talk · contribs)
Dispute overview
my argument is that according to WP:FORMAL, it's better to use last names for characters, including fictional ones, as much as we can, though it's not mandatory since WP:FORMAL is an essay. the opposite party's main argument is that we should mention the characters the way they're called more often in the script of the work of fiction itself, while they fail to say why and according to what.
Have you tried to resolve this previously?
we've discussed it extensively at the talk page as you can see. they have stated irrational arguments and then left the discussion. they refuse to talk while they want to enforce their position.
How do you think we can help?
maybe as more experienced wikipedians, you can find a compromise. because i'm tired of repeating the obvious.
Summary of dispute by AussieLegend
I am not sure why HamedH94 has chosen to list only TenTonParasol and I here. There have been four other editors involved in the discussion, including Bignole, the editor with whom HamedH94 had the original dispute. For the most part I share TenTonParasol's opinion. Despite a long, somewhat circular discussion, HamedH94 has failed to convince six other editors that the article should change to using his preferred method of referring to fictional characters by their last name, when the convention is to refer to such characters by the name that is most commonly used when referring to them. That HamedH94 refers to the opinions of multiple editors as "irrational arguments" is at least part of the reason why other editors do not wish to engage with him. Personally, I do not think this discussion can achieve anything without input from all seven involved editors. The opinions of the four other editors cannot be disregarded. --AussieLegend (✉) 14:32, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
Post in your own section. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:41, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
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Summary of dispute by TenTonParasol
I've held, counter to Hamed's position, if a fictional character is most commonly referred to or is most recognized by first name, the article may use first name (even if there are no family characters to disambiguate) to be most understandable to as broad an audience as possible, especially if the last name is rarely used. I felt WP:TECHNICAL is applicable here (especially per its citation in WP:BCLASS), though I understand not all will agree fictional characters' names are part of the "technical" aspects of an article about fiction. WP:FORMAL encourages using conventions set by reliable resources, and in my experience, academic writings often refer to character by first name. A fair number of our FAs, FLs, and GAs also refer to characters by first name if it is a name the character is very commonly referred to or recognized by. While I understand these articles are not perfect, this suggests that what is acceptable does not preclude a first name usage. I have stressed that if there is a local consensus to use last names, I have no problem, but my position is that a formal tone does not automatically exclude a first name usage when a fictional character is most commonly referred to or is most recognized by that name. Despite all this, Hamed continues to state that I have cited nothing to support my argument and that my statements are irrational, unfounded, and wholly irrelevant.
Post in your own section. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:42, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
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I have felt no further need for discussion because the discussion thread has gotten highly repetitive and I see no need to retread the same ground a third or fourth time. I also feel that Hamed has not sufficiently refuted my argument. At the very least, speaking as an involved editor, I feel that there has been no consensus, and in that case, status quo (first name usage) on the article is to remain, and Hamed has edited the article to reflect his position despite this, saying that no further comment opposing his argument means that consensus has moved in his favor. ~Cheers, TenTonParasol 13:38, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
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Talk:Arrow (season 1)#First name or last name? discussion
- Volunteer note - The preconditions have been met, in that there there has been extended inconclusive discussion on the talk page, and the other editors have been notified. Waiting for responses from the other editors, since participation here is voluntary. Robert McClenon (talk) 14:31, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
- Comment - I stopped participating in the discussion on the talk page as I made my points there and saw nothing related to anything I stated made to refute them. My lack of continued involvement there does not mean I changed my position, I just judged further participation would have little value. Use of common names in works of fiction is well-supported by policy and practice. Even for works of non-fiction, people don't always get referred to by their last name, lots of examples of how what is proper tone to refer to an individual varies and and where first name referrals is proper. I agree with the opening statements by AussieLegend and TenTonParasol. Geraldo Perez (talk) 16:52, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
- Comment - My words are best summarized by Geraldo. I think that Hamed has mischaracterized that happened. People did not "stop talking" and just "simply" revert. Everyone provided their rationale, Hamed refused to acknowledge the consensus and proceeded to edit the way they wanted, while stating "no other comments so I guess you all agree with me." What Hamed fails to realize is that consensus is not predicated on senseless, never-ending discussion that circles the same points over and over again. People can effectively lobby their positions and move on from the discussion. At the end of the day, Hamed has been the only one fighting against what every other editors has been saying and doing. There have been countless examples provided, explanations of guidelines, direct exerts pulled, etc. Hamed is sticking with their interpretation of what specific from WP:FORMAL that does not actually explicitly contradict the edits in question in the first place. If someone wants to know what I think, my comments on are the talk page of the original article. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 02:33, 25 July 2016 (UTC)