User talk:K1ngstowngalway1

Please update Lola Montez. She is portrayed in NBC “The Californians” tv show - season 2, episode 3 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:243:605:8B30:F59C:7EE1:BD6F:1292 (talk) 13:56, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

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Eisteddfod

Hi, I have just noticed that we have been working on Eisteddfod at the same time, and I have been trying to edit a moving target. As you can see from some of my edits, I think some of your new material is too detailed, and would be better placed in articles about the Welsh communities in the US. Regards, Verbcatcher (talk) 21:01, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

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January 2021: Christian poetry#List of Christian poets

Hi, I've removed several of your additions to the list. If you wish to discuss, please visit my Talk or else start a discussion on the article's Talk page. --Quisqualis (talk) 16:02, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

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Joseph Pearce

Hi, I've been trying to rebalance this article so that it is not excessively WP:PRIMARY; and it does now have SOME secondary sourcing. I've cut down the primary material somewhat, merged primary sources, and marked all the primary (Pearce) citations "group=P", which at least makes the issue clearly visible. Primary sources may only be used, cautiously, to establish basic facts, such as dates of birth and marriage, education, and employment. They should not be used to supply discussion or opinion as they are not, obviously, independent of the subject, and thus cannot be relied on to be objective. For this purpose, Wikipedia policy insists on Reliable Sources (textbooks, national newspapers, or academic journals) which authoritatively discuss the subject. In particular, any opinions or analysis must be sourced in this way.

However, I notice that you have recently added more primary material to the article, with unmerged sources, not marked as primary, unsupported by reliable secondary discussion (non-Pearce sources, as above). This is, I think you'll probably agree on reflection, a retrograde manoeuvre. The biography part of the article remains almost entirely primary-sourced. I'd be really grateful if you could add secondary discussion by scholars or independent experts to support the Pearce material. Many thanks, Chiswick Chap (talk) 11:03, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Update ... I've added several secondary sources such as book reviews, and have cut down the primary material and sources to a relatively tolerable level. I'd really appreciate it if you'd refrain from adding any more primary material or citations. There is clearly scope for more secondary material such as paraphrased reports of reviews of his books; there seems to be plenty to work on in that direction, which you might enjoy. All the best, Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:55, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

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Edit summaries are necessary

I'd like to draw your attention to the edit summary guidelines, which not only help your fellow editors understand what you're doing but, as importantly, why you're doing it. WP, because of the way it works, can only be as good as the teamwork put into it. Your work on articles generally improves them, but acquainting yourself more closely with the rules of editing would make it better. Sweetpool50 (talk) 21:36, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

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Some more guidelines

Congratulations K1ngstowngalway1 on all your hard work and enthusiasm at Sonnet. However, I see you have taken no notice of my suggestion above about leaving edit summaries, which is disappointing. I now have to caution you about respecting other editing guidelines too. You have replaced wording in the US section which was clearly WP:OFFTOPIC and I suggest you read that guideline too. The article you are editing is about the sonnet form and not the history of US literature, so consideration of the rise of New Formalism - which covers many other aspects of poetic form - is beside the point. In any case, your source deprecates the term and, since Baer's anthology is pushing a movement in which he is deeply involved, his claim might be regarded as suspect in terms of WP:SOURCE. You would need to find a trustworthy independent source that links the literary movement with rediscovery of the sonnet.

With regard to the Urdu sonnet, it is simply not true that your example is an example of the Shakespearean form. The lines are 15 syllables long and the rhymes in every case are either double or triple. The most you can claim, if you can find a reliable source, is that Urdu sonnets are inspired by the European form. Incidentally, I was glad to see Wazir Agha's name in that section. He and I had a friendly correspondance in bygone days.

Your Portuguese section should follow the Spanish and probably should include other authors than Camões. At the moment it looks more like an essay on the poet than on the form. In addition, it is ridiculous to claim for Wordsworth's sonnet that it is "one of the most famous English Romantic sonnets". Without a source, that's WP:OR. Please look at all the guidelines cited before you do any more editing. It will save you a lot of time in the end. Sweetpool50 (talk) 09:36, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

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Edit summaries

Hi, I recently tried to solve some broken references at War poet, most of them can be attributed to you in edits that lack an edit summary. I didn't really check if they were an actual copyright violation because of lack of attribution and I personally and probably many editors don't care much about that anyway. The edits seem produtive, nevertheless an edit summary can really help to solve this kind of problems and doesn't require a big effort, especially if you compare that with the effort of all editors who will try to review your edits. So to sum it up you are welcomed to review the ref changes I made to War poet and to give more detailes in your future edit summaries. If you have trouble with ref syntax feel free to ask me for guidance. Personuser (talk) 01:08, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Same again, you are making many edits without summaries. That is both against policy and unhelpful to all other editors. Even very brief summaries help other editors to see what you are intending. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:12, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

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Iain mac Ailein

Hi there! Thank you for creating the article! As you might have noticed, I'd added several references some of which have a lot of information about his life and work. It would be great if you could expand the article using them. The main thing to remember is that WIkipedia is very strict with copyright violations, so please put it in your own words. What do you think? Best, Less Unless (talk) 16:22, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

Sounds good K1ngstowngalway1 (talk) 16:59, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

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November 2021

Your edit to Aziz Feyzi Pirinççizâde has been removed in whole or in part, as it appears to have added copyrighted material to Wikipedia without evidence of permission from the copyright holder. If you are the copyright holder, please read Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for more information on uploading your material to Wikipedia. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted material, including text or images from print publications or from other websites, without an appropriate and verifiable license. All such contributions will be deleted. You may use external websites or publications as a source of information, but not as a source of content, such as sentences or images—you must write using your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously, and persistent violators of our copyright policy will be blocked from editing. See Wikipedia:Copying text from other sources for more information. — Diannaa (talk) 15:37, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

Massacres in Mardin

Dear K1ingstownGalway1, I have read your additions at the Ignatius Maloyan article, and the massacres there were described with such detail, that it might merit an own article about the Genocide in Mardin akin to 1915 genocide in Diyarbekir. It seems you have access to the sources about it. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 03:37, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

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Rudolf Roessler

Hi @K1ngstowngalway1: Great copyedit on the Roessler article. Its really brought it into focus. It is excellent work you do. Really excellent work. scope_creep^Talk 09:48, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Copyeditor's Barnstar
	For truly excellent work on Rudolf Roessler. Thanks. scope_creepTalk 09:50, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

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Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to add unsourced or poorly sourced content, you may be blocked from editing. Magnolia677 (talk) 19:41, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Magnolia677, I most definitely DO source my material. The previous post related to something which I have since cited my source. I am curious what you consider disruptive, as I try very hard to detach from my own opinions and add what my sources state as dispassionately as possible. K1ngstowngalway1 (talk) 19:49, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

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You clearly do not source your material

Despite your comment to User:Magnolia677. You are adding the category for confirmed COINTEL investigations to articles that don't mention such an investigation. Doug Weller talk 11:01, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

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K1ngstowngalway1 (talk) 20:42, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

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Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to violate Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy by adding commentary and your personal analysis into articles, as you did at Claas Relotius, you may be blocked from editing.

Please stop adding unreferenced or poorly referenced biographical content, especially if controversial, to articles or any other Wikipedia page, as you did at Claas Relotius. Content of this nature could be regarded as defamatory and is in violation of Wikipedia policy. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia.

Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to add unsourced or poorly sourced content, as you did at Claas Relotius, you may be blocked from editing.

In the last two years, you have been asked multiple times to adhere to Wikipedia's rules, but you seem to ignore all these warnings.

You added defamatory categories to Claas Relotius, calling him a criminal, although he hasn't been convicted of a crime, and, according to available sources, not even formally charged.

Also, you didn't summarise your edits, although you have been told many times that edit summaries are required.

If you are unable or unwilling to adhere to Wikipedia's rules, you will be blocked (and possibly your other account User:Kingstowngalway as well). — Chrisahn (talk) 15:02, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

Out of curiosity, is the category criminal meant solely for those convicted of committing a crime, or for those whom reputable sources demonstrate to have committed one? If the first, I was not aware that that was a requirement. If the second, Claas Relotius has been alleged to be guilty of embezzlement of funds he raised for charitable purposes. K1ngstowngalway1 (talk) 20:09, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

Only for those convicted. We can’t use our own opinions. You should know that. Doug Weller talk 20:14, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

Well, I didn't know that, so thank you for explaining. I will remember that rule in the future. K1ngstowngalway1 (talk) 20:43, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

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Undefined harvnb reference

Hi, in this edit to Francis Xavier Morgan you introduced a harvnb reference "Carpenter 1977" but did not define it. This means that nobody can look the reference up, and also adds the article to Category:Harv and Sfn no-target errors. if you could fix it that would be great. DuncanHill (talk) 10:17, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

• It's OK, I've fixed it, and another missing definition, for you. DuncanHill (talk) 10:33, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

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Your recent contributions to Crowning of the Bard

You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you vandalize Wikipedia, as you did at Crowning of the Bard. Not welcome at da SD (talk) 18:57, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

That actually surprises me. Why would that be the case? Why would it count as vandalism? K1ngstowngalway1 (talk) 19:00, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

Hey @K1ngstowngalway1: Disregard the warning. It was made by a vandalism only account that spammed similar warnings across a number of user's pages. I'm going through reverting their edits now, which is how I found this conversation. Hey man im josh (talk) 19:04, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for explaining. 🙂 K1ngstowngalway1 (talk) 20:36, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

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Welcome to Wikipedia. We appreciate your contributions, but in one of your recent edits to Ilya Ehrenburg, it appears that you have added original research, which is against Wikipedia's policies. Original research refers to material—such as facts, allegations, ideas, and personal experiences—for which no reliable, published sources exist; it also encompasses combining published sources in a way to imply something that none of them explicitly say. Please be prepared to cite a reliable source for all of your contributions. You can have a look at the tutorial on citing sources. You must be careful not to change the meaning of text without consulting the sources. For example, the cited source does not mention "war crimes". Given that this term has a particular legal meaning that has changed over time, it is important not to assume that something is a war crime unless stated in reliable sources. (t · c) buidhe 05:53, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

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Bonane 1829

Hiya. I don't have a copy of Nugent (2013), but I was wondering if he gives the name of the priest in the text you've used to support the same content recently added to several articles? And, does he give the events as historical fact or as folklore? I ask as this website describes the story as "Folk belief". And, in all honesty, it seems more like a colourful tale than something covered in newspapers and the like. What happened to the killers? Was there a trial? And contemporary accounts? If not, when we say "according to Nugent", can we make sure we represent how Nugent actually introduces the story? ("According to Nugent, local folklore suggests...."). Otherwise 1829 isn't that long ago. It certainly isn't pre-history (before writing, newspapers, etc, etc). And ideally there would either be corroborating sources. Or, if not, some tempering/clarification of the intro(s) slightly... Guliolopez (talk) 14:23, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

Unfortunately, Nugent does not give the name of the priest, which I would definitely prefer to have added, but he does tell the story in greater detail and adds that the clerk just barely escaped and killed the two attack dogs that were set on him. Newspaper accounts there certainly might be, but any trial records would have been lost when the Irish Record Office in Dublin was destroyed during the Irish Civil War in 1922. I live in the USA and am on a shoestring budget, though, so I'm limited in terms of travelling and doing archive research on Ireland. I'm certainly okay, though, with tagging the story as folklore if the only source is from the local oral tradition. K1ngstowngalway1 (talk) 16:33, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

OK. Fair enough. I'm going to get Nugent from the library next week and take a look. In the meantime, as you note above (and building on what you did yourself here), I've shifted the text in the Mass rock article to the "folklore" section. And made a similar change to the Bonane article. You may want to do something similar to the priest hunter text. As an aside, I'm also going to further expand the "history" section of the Bonane article. As we now probably have too much emphasis on what is almost certainly folkloric in nature. And focus on what can be documented. Like the role of the Bonane parish priest (who very much had a head) in building/redeveloping the parish church in the 1830s... Guliolopez (talk) 20:09, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

I just had a look at your expansion of the Bonane article. Great job! K1ngstowngalway1 (talk) 16:42, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

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St. Cloud, Minnesota

I have boldly reverted your edits at St. Cloud, Minnesota. While parts of your edit were sourced, large portions were unsourced original research. Picking the good from the bad would be an unreasonable expectation for other editors. Moreover, your edits removed sourced content. You are welcome to add your sourced content back, but please do not add unsourced content. Thank you for your understanding. Magnolia677 (talk) 11:16, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

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August 2023

You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you add unsourced or poorly sourced material to Wikipedia, as you did at Warroad, Minnesota. Magnolia677 (talk) 11:23, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

To what, exactly, are you referring? I ask because you seem to have removed material from the Warroad article that was there prior to my involvement. K1ngstowngalway1 (talk) 16:35, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

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Biscuits for you

Thank you for the interesting information you added to Catholic Church in Tibet. Have a "sweet" day/night. -- Uriel1022 (talk) 22:50, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

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John Norris

I think the first part of your edit here mistakenly replaces the proposed Munster plantation with the gleam-in-the-eye Ulster plantation. Shtove (talk) 14:22, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

December 2023

Hello. I have noticed that you often edit without using an edit summary. Please do your best to always fill in the summary field. This helps your fellow editors use their time more productively, rather than spending it unnecessarily scrutinizing and verifying your work. Even a short summary is better than no summary, and summaries are particularly important for large, complex, or potentially controversial edits. To help yourself remember, you may wish to check the "prompt me when entering a blank edit summary" box in your preferences. Thanks! NM 03:27, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.

No, there is no discussion; I'm going to close that down. However, K1ngstowngalway1, edit summaries are both encouraged and appreciated, OK? Thanks, Drmies (talk) 21:28, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

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Vondel

Dear K1ingstownGalway1, I have read your additions at the Vondel article, and it seems to me that you're constantly adding information in such detail, that it doesn't add much in a positive sense to the content of the article, on the contrary, it only makes the article unnecessarily longer (especially the lead). Could you please refrain from making these unnecessary edits, or at least go to the talk page to discuss this with other editors? Thank you! 213.124.169.92 (talk) 15:50, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

• K1ingstownGalway1, I see a rather disturbing pattern on this talk page, and that's even if I skip over the dozens if not hundreds of disambiguation notes. You are asked, again and again, to not insert opinion, to not insert unverified text, to not insert excessive detail, and to please explain your edits in edit summaries. In fact, I see now that I asked you this myself, after I closed down an ANI report. And then there is the excess: Battle of Moore's Creek Bridge has been marked for inappropriate tone (by User:Professor Penguino), and I have no doubt that is in part due to your doubling of the size of the article--much of which with completely excessive detail about minor characters, and note that in my removal of text there are at least four unverified paragraphs (which of course we can't have in a GA). The other thing I see on this talk page is an almost complete refusal to engage with fellow editors: no wonder they are getting impatient. Need I remind you that this is a collaborative project? Doug Weller and Magnolia677 probably feel just as uneasy about all this. Drmies (talk) 16:13, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

  @Drmies All their many warning about sourcing their edits and they seem to think it's ok to edit and move unsourced material (with citation needed tags no less) around without sourcing as they did at Jamie Macpherson. And when they do source they don't seem to know what is reliably published, eg [1] which links to this anonymous article[2]. Doug Weller talk 17:12, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

  Regarding Jamie MacPherson, I was simply trying to place things in chronological order and improve linking. It has always been my intention to also seek out reliable source material to further improve an article that needs better source citations.K1ngstowngalway1 (talk) 17:17, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

  With regard to edit summaries, that is merely a matter of absent-mindedness, rather than a deliberate desire to flaunt the rules of this project. When I receive a disambiguation note, my immediate reaction is to correct it as swiftly as possible. I am an editor who does not send my talk page to archives, which is why things you are seeing go as far back as they do. Thank you for informing me of the Battle of Moore's Creek Bridge flagging, as I was unaware of it until now. Much of what I added there has since been removed by other editors while other elements have been left intact, which is okay, because this is, as you stated, a collaborative project.K1ngstowngalway1 (talk) 17:14, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

K1ngstowngalway1, my concern is the tremendous amount of original research you are adding to articles. For example, yesterday at John Farquharson (Jesuit) you made this edit adding: "He became a veteran "heather priest" who often travelled disguised in a kilt and tartan hose to evade capture by the priest hunters." You cited this source. Perhaps I missed it, but where does that source say anything about heather priests and priest hunters? Magnolia677 (talk) 18:48, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

The sources I have found while researching his colleague Fr. Alexander Cameron do mention Fr. Farquarson wearing a kilt and tartan hose as a disguise to avoid arrest as an illegal priest in Scotland. I have seen the term "heather priest" used as a term for outlawed and underground Scottish priest elsewhere, I forget where, but will try to track it down. Priest hunters were those who sought to collect the rewards offered for priests at the time when Catholicism was illegal and underground, so it seemed to fit the context of the article.K1ngstowngalway1 (talk) 19:16, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Stop adding "stuff you know" to Wikipedia. Just stop. Magnolia677 (talk) 20:02, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Viktor Orbán

Hi there

A few days ago you made some changes to the article on Viktor Orbán. In this change and I noted specifically that you prepend " been accused of having" to statements about Mr. Orbán having "curtailed press freedom, weakened judicial independence, and undermined multiparty democracy".

Did you have any specific reason to do so? Jabbi (talk) 16:03, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I did have a reason. I am aware that Fox News and certain other conservative media sources, both here in the United States and elsewhere, have contested whether Orbán is in fact guilty of democratic backsliding or dictatorial behavior. Therefore, as this is clearly a contentious and debated subject without a clear consensus, saying that he has been accused of alleged to have done those things struck me as more detached and objective.K1ngstowngalway1 (talk) 18:58, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

I appreciate that, thanks for your contribution. I see two issues with that however. Firstly, you would have to discuss this in the article's main content, for instance in the section about democratic backsliding during Mr Orbán's second tenure, although I am sceptical you can find reliable sources that support that there hasn't been democratic backsliding. This brings me to the second issue, that Fox News is not considered a reliable source when it comes to politics. Good luck Jabbi (talk) 00:28, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

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Folklore v Fact

Hiya. Me again. With a similar point again (to that discussed in May 2023). As with Nugent (2013), the text attributed to the sean-nós singer Joe Heaney in that website (a page labelled, I note, as "Singing, storytelling ⁊ folklore from the Carna tradition") is clear that the "song as code" theory is mostly folkloric. A story told by some who have sung it. The academic authors/contributors to that page, in particular, go to some length to clarify/qualify that it's not established fact. With several footnotes including that Joe [Heaney] may be correct in asserting his community’s understanding of this song as referring to the celebration of mass during Penal times [...however...] this idea was perpetuated when the song was taught in schools. [..Others..] apparently also believed that the song was allegorical. Nonetheless, it seems likely that the poem was originally composed as a love song. We shouldn't just "cherry pick" parts of a source. Especially to present one of the theories covered in the source (especially one with folkloric overtones) as fact. Please don't cheery pick. Remember WP:BALANCE. Thanks.

(Also, as I have you, please take a look at WP:CATDEF. "Traditional Catholicism" is not a defining characteristic of the town of Ardee. To the extent that it should be categorised as such. The existence of a small ICRSS community in the area doesn't apply [as a defining characteristic] to the entire town...) Guliolopez (talk) 01:17, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Hi again. As also raised recently, I note, by Drmies and Doug Weller can you please watch the WP:OR and WP:SYNTH. And, in addition to adding connected/verifiable sources to support your edits, consider using WP:EDSUMs to explain your changes. In terms of:

• WP:OR: I note that in this series of edits you added a significant volume of quotes to the Mass rock article. Not only do none of these quotes refer to the titular subject (mass rocks/mass stones), as far as I can tell the works (from which the quotes are taken) also do not materially cover the titular subject. (Tanner, for example, mentions "mass rocks" only once in his entire book. And does not mention "mass stones" at all. While I have added a short note to reflect what little Tanner does say about the titular subject, I cannot see how we can justify populating the article with other large and unrelated extracts from Tanner's book. If you are adding this stuff for "historical context" or something, then please note that this is not appropriate and not needed. That content could, perhaps, be added (as you also seem to have done) to the Catholic Church in Scotland#History article/section. And be LINKED from the mass rocks article. Per WP:SS and WP:BADFORK. But replicating it across multiple articles (on subjects not related to or covered by the source) is not appropriate.
• Folklore and fact: I note that, despite our discussion in May 2023, and without ANY explanation or justification or edit summary, you moved the clearly folkloric story (about an unnamed priest being beheaded in the 1820s). Removing it from the "folklore" section. And moving it to the "records" section. As discussed last year, there is NOTHING to indicate that this is anything other than folklore. 1829 was not some prehistoric time when murders or beheadings went unreported in news sources. This is the era of O'Connell and Smith O'Brien. A well-documented historic period when priests were named people who appeared in newspapers and other contemporary records. Catholic priests didn't just "vanish" with no record or coverage. The parish priest in 1830s Bonane was a named person. Michael Enright. His predecessor John O'Neill. The bishop at the time was Cornelius Egan. Egan wouldn't just have "ignored" the murder and beheading of one of his parish priests. There are ZERO contemporary news accounts to support this story. Described in ALL SOURCES as "local lore" or "oral tradition" or "folk belief", this is clearly just that. A colourful story. And, while worth mentioning in that context, shouldn't be presented (in a "records" section) as historical fact.

Thanks. Guliolopez (talk) 15:19, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

If you have in fact researched that and found no references in local news, by all means go ahead and move it back to folklore.K1ngstowngalway1 (talk) 20:31, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Hi. Of course I researched it*. And, frankly, before moving it from the "folklore" section to the "records" section, so should you have. Especially given that the exact same content (albeit on the Bonane article) had already been discussed. And as ALL of the sources describe it as "local lore" or "oral tradition" or "folk belief" or similar. If a source clearly gives something as "folklore", then it should be reflected as such. Without the need for other editors to take on the burden of confirming/questioning it. It is on you to accurately reflect sources. Other editors shouldn't have to come along behind checking and verifying.

(* The Irish Newspaper Archives have had a "black Friday sale" every year for the last few years. Halving their subscription to something manageable. No local or national papers in those archives (incl. Kerry Evening Post, Freeman's Journal, etc) make any mention of a priest's murder in 1829. None. Nor does the Journal of the Cork Historical and Archaeological Society. Nor do any of the free/research sources, available to all Wikipedia users in The Wikipedia Library, make any mention (not in ProQuest, JSTOR, Newspapers.com, Newspaperarchive.com, etc). If you're relying primarily on books of folklore, dictated autobiographies from seanchaithe/folklorists/singers/storytellers/entertainers, and random stuff from the internet [while ignoring the analysis of those sources], then perhaps you should consider that approach.)

I already, FYI, moved that text back where it was. With an explanation. As per norm and convention. Thanks. Guliolopez (talk) 21:14, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

I'm actually quite fascinated to hear that such an online database exists. I live in the States and have been depending on actual print books for most of my editing.K1ngstowngalway1 (talk) 22:16, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

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Thank you for creating Peter O'Higgins.

I have tagged the page as having some issues to fix, as a part of our page curation process and note that:

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Sources (seanchaís and essayists as historians)

Hi. Me again. Same issue (folklore as history). Yet again.

Can you please consider the reliability of the sources you are using to support text. And how you describe their authors. For example, in several articles you have:

• described Seumas MacManus as a "historian". Per the MacManus article, he was an "author, dramatist, and poet known for his ability to reinterpret Irish folktales". His works (including In Chimney Corners: Merry Tales of Irish Folk‐lore, The Bewitched Fiddle and Other Irish Tales, Donegal Fairy Stories, Top o' the Mornin' and Tales that Were Told) are (substantially) collections of folklore. Stories. Which, while they may contain some truths, are not the works of a "historian" in the sense typically meant. Per the article "MacManus is considered by many to be the last great seanchaí, or storyteller of the ancient oral tradition". And, while there is significant value in this, his works shouldn't be presented (as you have) as equivalent to the work of a historian. In the academic, evidence-based and peer-reviewed sense.
• used Philip O'Sullivan Beare as a source to support text about the Nine Years' War. During the Nine Years' War, O'Sullivan Beare was a child. While still a child (of perhaps 10 or 11) he went to Spain. He never returned to Ireland. His Catholic History of Ireland was published in exile, is overtly polemical and based entirely on second and third-hand accounts. Per the related entry in the Catholic Encyclopedia, this work is "not always reliable" from a historical perspective.

Please take more time to consider the sources, how they are presented and how they are described. Thanks. Guliolopez (talk) 11:43, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

The MacManus quotes are from an Irish history book he wrote and published in 1921, not from a folklore book. He can certainly be overly polemical in that book at times, so I sought out quotes that were as objective as possible, which was not an easy task. I have also seen that same quote from O'Sullivan Beare used in multiple history books about the Nine Years War and other sources, in fact, confirm that the rising of the northern clans was in response to anti-Catholic [[

religious persecut]] and out of a desire to preserve the Irish language and the clan system, rather than out of 20th century-style Irish republicanism. With regard to the line between history vs oral tradition/folklore, single party states like the Whigs often seek to cement their power through pseudohistory, which is the rewriting of the past to advance an agenda in the present. When pseudohistory becomes the party line, it becomes, somewhat sarcastically, renamed the official history. The duty of a historian is to seek the real truth. Sometimes, when voices other than the official history favored by the State are censored, the local oral tradition can preserve more truth than one might realize. For example, Bridget Connelly, the author of "Forgetting Ireland", grew up in an Irish-American farming community in Western Minnesota which had been set up by Archbishop John Ireland of St. Paul. She ultimately realized that much of the official history of her hometown and of her own family had been deliberately fabricated to conceal misconduct and outright corruption by the Archbishop. The family oral tradition as preserved by her distant cousins in Connemara was actually more accurate than the official written history that was deliberately spin doctored by Archbishop Ireland. I've often found the same thing to be true in my own research.K1ngstowngalway1 (talk) 16:56, 15 April 2024 (UTC)ion

Hi. RE:

• "I have also seen that same quote from O'Sullivan Beare used in multiple history books about the Nine Years War [..to..] confirm that the rising of the northern clans was in response to anti-Catholic religious persecut[ion]". That's all very well. But that's not how YOU used the source. You used it to state, SPECIFICALLY, that "[Dermot O'Hurley's] torture and martyrdom are also highly significant as a contributing cause for the Nine Years' War". Not "religious persecution" generally. O'Hurley's torture/death SPECIFICALLY. Which isn't in the quoted text.
• "Sometimes, when voices other than the official history [..] are censored [there is truth to be found elsewhere]". I don't fully disagree. But that is exactly why we should ACCURATELY describe and reflect sources. All of them. Not extrapolate and synthesise them. Or describe them as anything other than they are. O'Sullivan Beare, in particular, is clearly a form of polemic "counter propaganda". And widely regarded and described as such. Pretending that it isn't (or ignoring that it is), as form of "propaganda V propaganda", is not what we should be doing. We describe the sources as they are. And let the reader interpret. Not editorialise or obfuscate the source or "lead" the reader. Doing so is counter productive.

Frankly, with every respect and in all honesty, that you continue to add sources and quotes which you know to be questionable (like the clearly invented, and frankly misogynistic stuff, about a woman plotting the beheading of Bonane's parish priest in 1829) is concerning. "Two wrongs" and all that. Please consider this type of approach to representing "the real truth". As, frankly, it doesn't align with my understanding of this project's guidelines. Thanks. Guliolopez (talk) 19:09, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

With regard to Sullivan's quote from Red Hugh, Red Hugh spoke about holy priests and bishops being subjected to inhuman and barbarous torture. I know of only two bishops who had been subjected to torture by Elizabethan officials in Ireland at that time: Dermot O'Hurley and Patrick O'Hely. Therefore they are relevant as a contributing cause for the outbreak of the Nine Years War. With regard to the role allegedly played in 1829 by County Kerry illegal shebeen-keeper "Nell of the Smoke" in the last killing of a priest at a Mass rock before Catholic Emancipation, the accusation of misogyny genuinely surprises me. Does it really serve the women's movement to pretend that what some might consider negative or even criminal behavior by women never took place? I honestly don't think it does. It may be true, or it may also have been distorted over the time since 1929. It does carry a typical life lesson for folktales from the same era that I've also noticed in Irish folklore about people who behead raparees for the bounty money that one should never become a police informer, because they supposedly never prosper. The story of Nell of the Smoke and her group of male enforcers is repeated in two sources, a book I own and another source located online and added to the citations by you. I don't live in Ireland, so consulting archival material is not an option, and my finances are limited, so acquiring books and scholarly articles is not always possible. I simply do the best I can with my limited resources because this era in Irish history has fascinated me since my teenaged years. Best wishesK1ngstowngalway1 (talk) 20:24, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for the response. And apologies for any delay in follow-up.

In terms of the story (and that is all it is) about a woman in Kerry convincing a bunch of men to behead a priest. That is not a story about "equality" in criminality. That she is named, while the men are not named (by Nugent and by you), clearly puts her as the main protagonist. Not equal to the men. Some form of unholy/beguiling force. It is also clearly a bunch of nonsense. There is zero evidence that anything like it ever happened. It is made up. Possibly, as with other similar stories of women convincing people to do something untoward, as a means of maligning the named woman. For whatever reason. Repeating it, as if it were fact, is along the same lines as other nonsense we've had on the project. Like editors using folkloric stories to update the Máire Rua O'Brien article to state that she had beguiled, bedded, married and killed dozens of men. When there is zero record of that. And every evidence to the contrary. Folklore is not fact. If there were such rumours or stories in the 19th century or earlier (along the lines of "beware wicked women in shebeens - they'll convince you to behead priests") then that's one thing. But repeating them as fact is another entirely.

In terms of sources, if you only have access to the story books (and no access to academic works or history books) then that doesn't stop you from presenting the works as they are. Stories and folklore. Regardless, as a Wikipedia user, you have access to the Wikipedia:The Wikipedia Library. Including dozens of academic and history journals. Which will assist in seeking more (and perhaps more reliable) sources. To put any folkloric content in context. Thanks. Guliolopez (talk) 12:42, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

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