User talk:Ocaasi

On the Twelfth day of Wikmas, Jimbo gave to we... 12 templates tagging, 11 bluelinks piping, 10 prods deleting, 9 bots reverting, 8 !votes affirming, 7 admins mopping, 6 stubs creating, 5 BLPs, 4 copyvios, 3 talkbacks, 2 cofounders, and success, but still not in theory...

Merry, if that's your thing. General cheer, otherwise. Happy 10th Wikipedia! Ocaasi

Click here to leave me a message...

• sign your posts with ~~~~
• i'll respond here unless you're new
• i'll watch your page if I post there
• if I reverted good edits, let me know

• contributions
• ip 69.142.154.10
• wikiocaasi at yahoo .com

VANDALISM THREAT Guarded __ __ __ __ __

This user fights vandalism using the STiki anti-vandalism tool.

Links

Template:MultiCol Little Kids

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| class="col-break " | Big Kids

• List of policies
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| class="col-break " | Bigger Kids

• Vandalism tools
• Rollback
• Request for permissions
• Requests
• Tools
• Javascript user scripts
• Oversight

JavaScript tools

This is what my .js userpage looks like. You can access yours at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:YOURNAME/vector.js. To make it work, just copy and paste any tool (import script... ;) on it's own line.

tools every editor should have

importScript("User:PleaseStand/hide-vector-sidebar.js"); // hides the sidebar gives you 20% more page

importScript('User:Cacycle/wikEdDiff.js'); //better diffs

importScript('User:Magnus_Manske/less_edit_clutter.js'); //hugely valuable cleanup for the edit page, less junk and separated templates/references

tools every rollbacker, reviewer should have

importScript('User:Alex Smotrov/histcomb.js'); //combines same edits by a user on the page history for a better overview

importScript('User:Joshua Scott/Scripts/pendingchanges.js'); //for reviewers, sidebar feed of pages with pending changes

tools for vandal patrol

importScript('User:Ale_jrb/Scripts/igloo.js'); //vandal patrol, sidebar link to collaborative anti-vandal program

importScript('User:Philip Trueman/recent2.js'); //vandal patrol, sidebar link to anti-vandal program

useful tools that you may like

importScript('Wikipedia:AutoEd/complete.js'); //automatic markup fixer, for page cleanup

importScript('User:Mr.Z-man/rollbackSummary.js'); //for rollbackers only, lets you give a different summary

importScript('User:Anomie/unwatch.js'); // Linkback: User:Anomie/unwatch.js... quick button to unwatch pages from watchlist

importScript('user:js/watchlist.js'); //watchlist enhancements

importScript('User:Mr.Z-man/refToolbar 2.0.js'); //editing toolbar enhancements

importScript('User:Magnus Manske/HighlightEditSections.js'); //nifty highlight function to make clear which section you are editing

importScript('User:Anomie/pagestats.js'); // Linkback: User:Anomie/pagestats.js... sidebar link to page stats

other stuff

document.write('<script type="text/javascript" src="http://toolserver.org/~magnus/wysiwtf/wysiwtf.js"><\/script>'); //WYSIFTW, Magnus Manske's revolutionary beta WYSIWYG editor, cool!

Preferences

I set up my preferences to maximize efficiency and enhance vandalpatrol, pending changes, new editor welcoming, page tagging, etc. You can set your preferences with the link at the top right of every page.

Editing

(columns 100, rows 24, show preview before edit box, enable section editing via [edit] links, widen edit box to fill the entire screen, show edit toolbar, show the difference between the latest accepted version..., warn me when I leave a page, enable enhanced editing toolbar, enable dialogs for inserting links)

Watchlist

(days to show 2, max number of changes 1000, expand watchlist to show all changes, hide bot edits, add pages I edit to my watchlist, add pages i move to my watchlist, add pages I create to my watchlist, add pages I review to my watchlist)

Gadgets

(image annotator, navigation popups, friendly, hotcat, reftools, twinkle, proveit, add page and user options to drop-down menus on the toolbar, The revisionjumper creates an interface which allows you to jump between different revisions, Change the "new section" tab text to instead display the much narrower "+". Change UTC-based times and dates, such as those used in signatures, to be relative to local time, Display an assessment of an article's quality as part of the page header for each article, Open external links in a new tab/window, Widen the search box in the Vector skin, Add an [edit] link for the lead section of a page, Allow up to 50 more characters in each of your edit summaries. Works in Internet Explorer, Firefox, and Opera, Make text fields (e.g. the edit form) use a sans-serif font instead of a monospace font.)

Pages I watch

In case you're wondering what I follow

Alex Konanykhin Alyson Court Amy Winehouse BBC Radio 2 BP Bioidentical hormone replacement therapy Blanche Lincoln Blood Will Tell Budder Chartalism Chhh Chiropractic Chiropractic controversy and criticism Clothing Confessions on a Dance Floor Criticism of Julian Assange Dahiya doctrine Daniel Domscheit-Berg Economics of religion Electrotrichogenesis Ethiopian National Defense Force Far East Movement Focal infection theory Ghada Abdel Moneim Involvement of the People's Republic of China in Africa Isaac Peral Israel Israel/Talk Jenny McCarthy Johnny Murtagh Julian Assange Leo Frank Linked Data List of important publications in computer science Marywood-Palm Valley school Measurement Mermaid Open Society Institute Operation Payback Outrage (2009 film) Part-time learner in higher education Pasquale Cafaro Plato Pseudoscience Quackwatch Ranbir Kapoor SM City Marilao Smears, accusations and threats against Julian Assange Sports chiropractic Stephen Barrett Tengkorak The National Council Against Health Fraud Torture Trail of Tears Vertebral artery dissection Warren Sapp Weston A. Price Foundation Weston Price WikiLeaks William Harvey Lillard User:108.15.35.153 User:108.2.118.123 User:108.41.71.27 User:108.78.9.100 User:109.108.26.179 User:109.95.68.225 User:110.55.161.13 User:112.110.5.86 User:112.134.103.112 User:112.135.159.157 User:112.201.212.191 User:114.79.138.17 User:115.111.37.66 User:115.118.45.219 User:115.184.40.165 User:117.192.139.137 User:117.197.147.165 User:117.197.164.37 User:117.198.142.9 User:117.199.117.197 User:117.200.151.235 User:117.205.160.96 User:117.241.240.58 User:119.152.11.64 User:119.156.34.19 User:119.224.18.251 User:119.93.7.106 User:120.28.78.166 User:121.247.68.104 User:121.54.59.5 User:121.72.232.150 User:121.96.174.62 User:121.97.117.234 User:122.148.98.63 User:122.162.181.157 User:122.163.120.100 User:122.168.247.225 User:122.169.214.62 User:122.170.22.37 User:122.172.124.23 User:122.174.169.20 User:123.238.137.236 User:123.238.255.61 User:124.13.31.153 User:124.168.183.68 User:124.176.185.231 User:128.118.89.73 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User:69.181.170.146 User:69.181.31.221 User:69.196.139.217 User:69.196.209.43 User:69.2.96.50 User:69.209.79.116 User:69.9.212.187 User:70.107.74.161 User:70.107.85.56 User:70.16.218.139 User:70.189.10.102 User:70.44.114.86 User:70.44.16.40 User:70.48.237.191 User:70.67.9.102 User:70.68.118.168 User:70.77.56.80 User:70.95.115.25 User:71.187.17.250 User:71.201.155.109 User:71.202.150.186 User:71.239.175.248 User:72.66.12.69 User:72.68.167.218 User:72.94.148.82 User:74.176.81.121 User:74.212.57.136 User:74.234.40.31 User:74.234.41.156 User:74.241.97.162 User:74.248.48.217 User:74.90.217.56 User:75.15.223.57 User:75.168.248.30 User:75.41.56.55 User:75.54.85.83 User:75.61.93.10 User:75.70.52.183 User:75.74.135.74 User:76.121.217.174 User:76.122.168.245 User:76.124.75.123 User:76.15.191.200 User:76.170.24.183 User:76.224.114.250 User:76.224.236.150 User:76.242.186.150 User:76.246.158.5 User:76.246.159.39 User:76.93.11.168 User:76.93.94.205 User:78.101.55.222 User:78.147.254.41 User:78.41.226.233 User:78.86.244.222 User:80.195.14.159 User:80.90.165.170 User:81.102.247.220 User:81.132.98.5 User:82.169.119.69 User:82.36.209.195 User:82.43.179.227 User:83.255.42.138 User:84.196.73.28 User:85.165.40.181 User:86.146.67.74 User:86.154.168.248 User:86.162.235.42 User:86.163.174.132 User:86.163.24.166 User:86.173.19.191 User:86.30.153.16 User:86.30.39.88 User:86.44.136.155 User:86.45.144.202 User:86.45.146.198 User:86.8.77.139 User:87.112.92.183 User:87.114.131.230 User:87.194.167.161 User:87.194.220.37 User:88.103.99.136 User:88.246.27.193 User:89.103.88.113 User:90.197.101.242 User:90.206.40.132 User:91.105.203.237 User:92.238.161.62 User:92.238.31.85 User:92.24.248.5 User:92.253.62.4 User:92.41.169.189 User:93.107.210.202 User:93.28.50.19 User:93.96.66.172 User:94.11.244.57 User:94.13.10.228 User:94.13.53.92 User:94.14.240.166 User:94.195.108.133 User:94.3.235.121 User:94.5.196.112 User:94.79.254.45 User:95.146.1.189 User:96.240.184.252 User:98.119.222.24 User:98.169.218.73 User:98.195.208.136 User:98.207.107.240 User:98.240.122.169 User:98.28.20.210 User:98.71.163.220 User:99.110.125.20 User:99.139.227.220 User:99.174.104.167 User:99.228.38.12 User:99.238.3.212 User:99.243.67.165 User:99.254.177.59 User:99.27.107.67 User:99.8.178.151 User:AaronY User:Ammo15 User:Andrew Lancaster User:Arcadian User:Arthur Rubin User:AxG User:Ben Tomsett111 User:Binksternet User:Blueboar User:Bob K31416 User:Brews ohare User:Brittbritt16 User:BruceGrubb User:BullRangifer User:Buya3ga92 User:Bwilkins User:CBM User:Cenarium User:Cla68 User:ClueBot NG User:Cobi User:Colin User:Collect User:Collect/neologism User:Courcelles User:Crispy1989 User:Crohnie User:Cyclopia User:Dancechickendance User:Dcoetzee User:DeltaQuad User:DigitalC User:Dontlikeitinthetuchis User:EVula User:Eclipsed User:ElvisSacramento User:Epeefleche User:ErrantX User:F918274 User:FT2 User:FT2/Expectations and norms of the Wikipedia community User:Fences and windows User:Fetchcomms User:Fred Bauder User:Frolicin User:Garrondo User:Gavia immer User:Ghada abdel moneim User:Giftiger wunsch User:Gogo Dodo User:Griswaldo User:HJ Mitchell User:HandThatFeeds User:Hans Adler User:Herostratus User:Hispanosuiza User:ImperfectlyInformed User:Itsmejudith User:J2hershey User:JaredBond User:Jayen466 User:Jayjg User:Jehochman User:Jfdwolff User:Jmh649 User:John User:JohnBlackburne User:Jojalozzo User:Joshua P. Schroeder User:Killiondude User:Kim Dent-Brown User:Koavf User:Koavf/Archive023 User:Kww User:LAUGH90 User:Lar User:LeadSongDog User:Leahtwosaints User:Legolas2186 User:Link909 User:Literaturegeek User:Ludwigs2 User:MELBBADMOM User:MZMcBride User:MastCell User:Mathsci User:Mathsci/Archive 24 User:Mathsci/archive 24 User:Michael Keith Jewitt User:Moni3 User:Moonriddengirl/Copyright User:MuhammadAhsanMirza User:Nageh User:NawlinWiki User:NawlinWiki/Archive 50 User:Netalarm User:Novangelis User:Ocaasi User:Ocaasi/Archive 1 User:Ocaasi/EditCounterOptIn.js User:Ocaasi/chiro User:Ocaasi/sandbox User:Ocaasi/sandbox2 User:Ocaasi/sandbox3 User:Ocaasi/vector.css User:Ocaasi/vector.js User:Off2riorob User:Patelchintal User:Peter morrell User:Philip Baird Shearer User:Phoebe User:Physics16 User:Puhlaa User:Puhlaa/notes User:QuackGuru User:Quiddity User:Qwyrxian User:RJC User:Ravensfire User:Ravi9390 User:ResidentAnthropologist User:Resident Mario User:RexxS User:Rock climber02 User:Rock climber02/sandbox User:Rodhullandemu User:Ronk01 User:Roux User:Sadads User:Sandhuguni User:SandyGeorgia User:Sbharris User:ScienceApologist User:Shabbaton10 User:Shell Kinney User:ShiftShow4 User:Silver seren/Userpage User:Sk859 User:SlimVirgin User:Slrubenstein User:Sphilbrick User:Sunflower at Dawn User:TFOWR User:Templar98 User:The Founders Intent User:The Wordsmith User:Theresa knott User:Thorncrag User:Thorncrag/Workshop/Counter-abuse User:Tmorton166 User:Tryptofish User:UncleDouggie User:Verbal User:VirtualDave User:VsevolodKrolikov User:WeijiBaikeBianji User:WereSpielChequers User:West.andrew.g User:WhatamIdoing User:Whitewater111 User:Will Beback User:Witty lama User:Wnt User:Wtmitchell User:Xavexgoem User:Yaris678 User:Yudhviermalik Wikipedia:About Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents Wikipedia:Advertisements Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard Wikipedia:Expectations and norms of the Wikipedia community Wikipedia:Fringe theories/Noticeboard Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources (medicine) Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources (natural sciences) Wikipedia:Introduction Wikipedia:List of guidelines Wikipedia:List of policies Wikipedia:List of policies and guidelines Wikipedia:Manual of Style (film) Wikipedia:Neutral point of view Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/FAQ Wikipedia:Pending changes/Metrics/Anonymous edit quality Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines Wikipedia:Protection policy Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard Wikipedia:STiki Wikipedia:Spoiler Wikipedia:Verifiability Wikipedia:WikiProject Medicine Wikipedia:WikiProject United States Public Policy/Leaderboard Template:Centralized discussion Template:Invitation to edit Help:Talkspace draft

Policy Questions

• Does WP:ASF/WP:MEDRS apply to a systematic review if only one exists?
• Are article naming conventions using Primary topic guidelines based on WP page views or on common popularity?
• Are official court rulings considered Primary documents and/or unreliable sources? For which parts?
• Are assertions about living persons in official court rulings insufficiently sourced?
• Does ASF require that all undisputed findings be stated as fact or merely that they can be? What about contentious areas or statements in the gray area between fact and opinion?
• Does MEDRS apply to all aspects of a medical subject article or only the parts that specifically make medical claims?
• If information is challenged, the WP:BURDEN is on the info-adder/defender to find sourcing which verifies the claim. From there, does the Burden shift back to the info-deleter/remover to determine whether the provided source is unreliable, or is the info-adder still tasked with showing the provided source is reliable?
• Do primary sources illustrate secondary sources, or do secondary sources corroborate primary sources, or are primary sources not reliable in lieu of secondary sources, or are secondary sources redundant if paired with primary sources, and when, and which primary sources?
• Do we need ALTMEDRS, to address medical claims made by alternative medicine fields, or to give room for non-WEIGHT violating coverage of the medical opinions within a field, per NPOV but not MEDRS?

Other topics

• Delete vs. RevDel vs. Suppression/Oversight (table contrasting each)

Other

• Pollmeister

Great Diffs

• Homework helper http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=386295973&diff=prev
• Best friends http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=386348226&diff=prev
• An edit war http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=399471730&diff=prev
• Stop it! http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=399480625&diff=prev
• Ouch. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=401661322&diff=prev
• Truth in advertising http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=401672362&diff=prev
• Good move http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=404438438&diff=prev
• Two men enter http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=404614712&diff=prev
• They are http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=404619119&diff=prev
• Balls http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=405383328&diff=prev

Wikilawyering: A guide for aspiring tendentious editors

If you like it, call it consensus. If you don't like it, name your policy and call whatever happened IAR.

If no one responds to your idea, call it no objections. If no one responds to your opponent's idea, call out silence does not equal consensus.

If you like the views in one forum, cite them as consensus. If you like the views of another forum better, cite those.

If you like the views of involved editors, call them relevant. If you prefer the views of uninvolved editors, consider them overriding.

If you like it, cite V. If you don't like it, call it OR.

If you don't like, call it OR. If they cite V, call it Plagiarism.

If you like it, cite Weight. If you don't like it, cite Weight.

If they make it about NPOV call out their RS. If they defend the RS, call them out on OR. If they defend the OR, call them out on NPOV. Repeat.

If someone responds to your argument, don't answer them, just repeat your original criticism or choose a new one. Whatever you do, don't engage the merits of an argument.

If someone doesn't agree with you, repeat your initial point. Keep doing this.

If you have a reason, don't share it. Just make claims as if your saying so makes it true.

If you are going to compromise, act like you're suffering a great injustice for the good of the encyclopedia.

If you are going to perpetrate a great injustice, call it a compromise.

If you have an idea which has already been roundly rejected by other editors, offer the same, but do it casually and graciously, as in 'see if this works'.

Know exactly which acts are likely to result in blocks. Do as much as you can within those bounds but never actually cross them. This shows other editors you care about policy.

If you can't convince another editor to see things your way, just broadly write them off as a of POV pusher, SPA, COI, or other unmentionable.

This is not a real guide, although it may be useful to identify the tactics of editors you struggle with. Instead of repeating them, try better ways to improve articles. If you find yourself doing one of these things, Wikibreak?

Understanding the Vandal-fighting web

1. Edit filter (automatic pattern rejection)

2. CBNG (machine-learning artificial neural network bot)

3. Huggle, Igloo, Lupin's filtered list (human assisted regex/badwords)

4. STiki (cbng residual feed, missed vandalism, subtle vandalism--human assisted metadata and pattern based review)

5. Article watchlists, selective page and topic monitoring by users

6. Pending changes, live version delay, reviewed by autoconfirmed users

7. Semi-protection, prevents non-autoconfirmed users from editing

8. Full protection, prevents non-admins from editing

9. Random readers, scores of random readers who fix errors when they come upon them

Questions for STiki

• Has it learned anything about likely vandals?
• What about displaying some raw stats?
• What about displaying some composite stats? (risk of feedback)
• What about incorporating UIowa's text processing, perhaps through a separate feed?
• Run STiki from browser like Lupin's or Igloo?
• Reviewer redundancy (best 2 of 3?, or 2 if match only)
• Integrate with pending changes filter?
• Option to leave comments for back-end or possibly for other users, i.e. with pass?
• Live update for intervening edits (i.e. diff is not most recent, cannot be rolled back or undone, etc.)
• WikiTrust, CBNG, META data combo. Why not just pull 1-1-1 off the top of the list to make a combined list?
• Which feeds have a higher percentage of vandalism reverts? Which ones catch the oldest? Most unique/hard to find?
• How to combine them?

Questions for CBNG

• redirects by autoconfirmed users [1]
• bot edits [2], [3]
• vandal reversions by autoconfirmed, regular users [4]
• self-reverts [5]

TALK REALLY STARTS HERE...

2011 Egyptian protests

The Committee to Protect Journalists also said Wednesday that Egyptian authorities have shut down the websites of two popular independent newspapers, Al-Dustour and El-Badil. -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 03:24, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Egyptian police crack down on second day of protests from CNN -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 03:43, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, I will let you know if I need any help. :) -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 03:53, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

graphic image
[[:File:Khalid-Saeed.jpg|thumb|A post mortem image of Khaled Saeed's corpse in the morgue]]

I have a question for you. The above picture was deleted but since then people have had a different opinion about the subject. does it matter or not??? Because I think if put up for a vote, the outcome will be different. -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 04:11, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

It's too much to have out in the open. It's not to censor but to permit the reading of everything else. Link it in the external links or maybe add it in a hidden box. Ocaasi (talk) 19:14, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Sorry about the WTF, I just saw the entire section gone and I was trying to open BBC blog -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 23:11, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

I know its need to go on the talk page of the article but I have learned during my time on wiki that ppl tend be more open to listen to different point of view when talk to directly. if they cont. to disagree I ask them then to take it to the talk page. but I understand whta you have pointed out -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 01:26, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

point taken :) -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 01:40, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Journal of Rheumatology Article

Ocaasi, Have you had a chance to read the Journal of Rheumatology article I tried to add as a reference on the chiropractic page? I don't know who quackguru is but I have a feeling from the name that there is at least a hint of bias. The article by Ernst is the only article (with multiple flaws) that I know that has ever even stated that the risk by far outweighs the benefits. Most of the articles I have seen state that manipulation (which is only one part of chiropractic) is at least as effective and most conclude that manipulation used with a multimodal approach such as with exercise therapy has a synergistic effect and is by far safer than OTC meds, NSAID's and prescription medications in the long term. Think about it, less than 30 deaths after billions of treatments over 100 years is surely considered extremely safe. I contacted the American Chriopractic Association. They stated that they have already tried to provide information about scope of practice to Wikipedia but they are having troubles with posting to the page also. If there is ever a source that should be considered respectable to Wikipedia, it should be the American Chiropractic Association (the chiropractic equivalent to the American Medical Association). Please let me know what I need to do to get the more positive and consistent research to post to this page. I am a little suprised at how difficult this is. I have peer reviewed medical research and the American Chiropractic Association trying to provide proof that the information I presented was accurate. I am not sure what else I can do. Please forgive my ignorance. I am new to this site and I am still learning the rules.

Thanks, Bill — Preceding unsigned comment added by Blueter112 (talk • contribs) 04:23, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Please read the section under STRONG EVIDENCE OF BENEFIT. The only treatment that has strong evidence of benefit for long-term effect was manipulation/mobilization in combination with exercise therapy (both of which are what chiropractors do to help patients with neck pain). This should at least counter the quotes by one source that concluded that the risk of death by far outweighs the benefit. It appears that Wikipedia is stuck on this manipulation only aspect of chiropractic. This Journal Article basically discusses the majority of treatments offered by chiropractors (traction, exercise therapy, ultrasound, electric muscle stimulation, T.E.N.S., cold laser therapy, traction, ergonomic suggestions and home therapy advise). I contacted the ACA and asked them to provide you with documentation supporting the multimodal aspect of chiropractic care in most states. This needs to be in the beginning of the page. The general public that is searching for chiropractic information needs to know what chiropractors do. Chiropractic is way more than manipulation. Please let me know what more you need. I will have the ACA send the specific data. Thanks, Bill — Preceding unsigned comment added by Blueter112 (talk • contribs) 23:40, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

The sentence in question here, the 'risk' involves specifically "spinal manipulation to the neck". We get that part right. The rheumatology can't counter the risk claims, because it doesn't make any risk claim. It might be able to address Effectiveness, like I said. Improving the scope of actual chiropractic treatments (traction, exercise, ultrasound, etc...) is something we should do but we need sources for. Do you have any? The ACA is a significant organization, but their opinion on the research does not override actual studies which say otherwise. Once the ACA performs a peer-reviewed systematic analysis of research and publishes it in a reputable journal with different conclusions then we can use it directly. Until then, basically all we can say is that Chiropractic organizations dispute the findings. Ocaasi (talk) 00:12, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Can you help more with bad faith article re mathematical reaslism?

Ocaasi, I noticed you edit on Phil of Sci related articles, and you have edited the bad faith article. So maybe you were reading mathematical philosophy stuff about ten years ago, too, where “bad faith” arises in a very important and “ethics busting” way. I thought maybe you might be able to help me come up with an understandable sentence or two about this. While “I do not no not a thing” about technical arguments in mathematical realism involving Mackie’s error theory of mathematical realism as it applies to ethics, I am not an expert by any means. About ten years ago, I recall that mathematical philosopher Crispin Wright complained that J. L. Mackie's view on mathematical realism relegates ALL discourse on eithics to ONLY be about “bad faith”, a very restricted ethics indeed. A similar, but less formalized, discussion occured between analytic philosopher of ethics Philippa Foot and Fregean ontology's Alonzo Church about "bad faith", to which I was a witness, and the discussion made my head spin at that time. How can these ideas be explained in plain English, and in only a sentence or two? You can respond at the talk page of bad faith, where I am copying this request. HkFnsNGA (talk) 02:02, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Hey HkF. This is out of my reading area. There is an administrator named User:Arthur Rubin who is a well-known mathematician. You could try asking him. Or post a note at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Philosophy or Wikipedia:WikiProject_Mathematics. Until then, I've got my hands full a little with Egyptian Protests, Chiropractic, and Pseudoscience. If I can look at it a little later, I will. Glad you're still getting your hands in there. Ocaasi (talk) 02:15, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I will post the same question at Arthur Rubin's talk page. Incidentally, regarding your calling my life "paripatatic", I have wondered to Wiki, too, and I can get around because I have four times as many days between my birthdays as most people, since I moved my birthday to Feb 29. HkFnsNGA (talk) 02:22, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Vandalism

Hi, yes, I undid all seven of the IP's edits. I also gave him a single-warning template, so hopefully you can get a block at ANI if he returns.

I was stunned to read of the accusation that desecration and rape is actually being done by the secret police in order to drum up their own business.

Your tireless work there is invaluable. Best, Abrazame (talk) 10:23, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

fyi - i haven't abandoned articles (2011 egyptian protests and its branch)

hi,

just to give you a clue, i've not abandoned the project. just that i have to step out for about one hour. regards.--108.14.100.42 (talk) 13:00, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

re: egypt

1. I did ask Egyptian Liberal about this, and then he sent me the link that said they were officially NOT taking part. But wed need more sources for that. And children were also taking part (i believe its mentioned in the timeline somewhere)
2. someone else did, i tried restoring it. sometime theses things take to show back up.
3. yeah i generally try in the article mainspace but i let it slip on the talk page sometimes ;)
4. Its in the hope that eventually it will show up (mostly from al jazeera itself) but with the breaking nature it wont be immediate.(Lihaas (talk) 15:17, 31 January 2011 (UTC)).

talk page agreed then. what section title? breaking news itself?(Lihaas (talk) 15:49, 31 January 2011 (UTC)).

done, with big title too.(Lihaas (talk) 15:55, 31 January 2011 (UTC)).

use of — code

hi. i see your "autoed" edit on "2011 egypt protests" article changed the "—" stylings to the underlying long emdash. is the use of code deprecated or discouraged in wikipedia? for editors "of a certain age" (and especially when editing at different magnifications), the emdash, endash and hyphen in the edit field all look QUITE similar. regards. (p.s. i can't seem to master the "no wiki" code for this. sorry).--108.14.100.42 (talk) 18:58, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Found one

See here. Silverseren^C 20:19, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

• Sorry for bugging you, but would you be able to respond here, here, and here?

Regarding your edit on 2011 Egyptian protests

Ocaasi, first of all good effort on you part on monitoring such an important and wide subject. However I have a comment on your following edit [6]. In my opinion this summary does not best represent the main point of the Christian Religious institution's response on the protest. You have deleted the official stand of the church and the pope's comment, while leaving a "partial" reaction on this stand (Rafiq Habib comment). This summary is not fair and do not convey the main massage of the Religious institution. So, please review the matter and I suggest restoring the whole paragraph since it is not long any way. Regards. --Osa osa 5 (talk) 00:33, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

I added a clarification to your questions. I answered them in my talk page to keep the discusion in one place. Let me know if this clarifies the issue. --Osa osa 5 (talk) 04:25, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

 Done- Please see the draft I wrote in my talk page --Osa osa 5 (talk) 03:08, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Collapsing ref sections for faster loading of especially long pages?

Some have raised the issue of the Egyptian protests article taking longer for some users to load. What is Wikipedia policy on collapsibility of a References section? I seem to remember having read that Wikipedia guidelines frown on that, but is there a place that discusses the whys of this? Considering that there are 270 refs, or over 1/3 of the pages, it would be helpful for those users if there were a way that the section would open when one clicks on a ref in the text, or upon scrolling down to that section of the article. In an unfolding story of such delicacy, it is vital for the legitimacy of the article for it to be identifiably well-sourced, but it it seems equally vital that depiction of such sourcing not make it inhibitive to access the article for users on slower connections. Thanks, Abrazame (talk) 06:55, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

I tried doing that because I found some articles where it was done and it looked really nifty. Boy did I get in trouble! It's expressly written here not to use scrolling lists. -- Brangifer (talk) 08:30, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

thanks for taking the hit! i was researching it... Ocaasi (talk) 08:33, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks to you both! I wonder if either of you would know of a Wikipedian whose area of expertise is programming, that they might devise a collapsible box that will register when the page is printed or copied, whether or not it is opened, yet remains collapsed upon initial loading of the page. It's not remotely the sort of thing I know how to do, but it seems as though once you have the gist of the problem, the way forward is to try and craft a solution, not to maintain a limiting status quo. Is there a suggestion box-type page for programmers here? I realize they might not be able to whip it up in a week, but to get minds rolling on solving that problem would be a great step forward. Thanks again, Abrazame (talk) 09:26, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) I don't know how relevant it is, but someone at Talk:Pain said that replacing (~100) citation templates with manually formatted citations halved the loading time. Someone else has also said that the {{vcite journal}} family is much faster than the more commonly used {{cite}} family. While changes to spare the WMF servers are generally frowned on, changes that plainly speed things up from the perspective of the end-user are one of the authorized reasons for changes.

You will want to start a discussion at the article in question to obtain "advance proof" of consensus for any such change, but these two options give you choices that speed loading time without reducing WP:ACCESS for some of our readers. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:09, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

missing your level head on 2011 Egyptian protests (and sub articles)

hi,

you've been keeping a low profile on the egyptian protests articles. was nice having your level-headedness on the project. (fyi: you probably won't recognize this IP number; mine changes with some frequency. my edit summaries usually read "tidy"; primarily citation formatting.)

regards.--96.232.126.111 (talk) 20:10, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Egypt

Hey there, I just wanted to thank you for your reply earlier on the Egyptian protests' talk page. :) Maged Mahfouz (talk) 19:31, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

egypt protests

dont know why it took so long to right the hidden note, but good job. better late than never ;)(Lihaas (talk) 19:09, 10 February 2011 (UTC)).

Talkback

Hello, Ocaasi. You have new messages at Neutralhomer's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Please

Here. More sources presented. Silverseren^C 04:16, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Re: Talk:2011 Egyptian protests

Thanks for your opinion on the discussed issue. The Background used to have so many extra info that was not related (or loosely related) to the protests. In my opinion there is a difference between a "background on the protests" and a "background on Egypt". Believe me, there is a lot more than what the background includes to write about Egypt's situations before the protests. But we must be concise and selective of the most relevant ones. Regards. --Osa osa 5 (talk) 04:52, 11 February 2011 (UTC)