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November 13

Edit-a-protected-page button

When you visit a protected page, you're shown a "View Source" tab instead of "Edit", and when you click it, you're given a button to make an edit request. There's no button if the talk page is also protected. There's a link to Wikipedia:Requests for page protection/Edit in the resulting message, but it's in a paragraph and less obvious. How could this be converted into a button like the one used when the talk page is not protected? 123.51.107.94 (talk) 00:37, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

I don't think we should do that. If the talk page is protected then it may be because the edit request button was repeatedly abused to post unwanted junk on the talk page. Let's not replace it with a similar button so the same junk can easily be posted to Wikipedia:Requests for page protection/Edit. That page cannot serve its purpose if it has to be protected so it seems OK to "protect" it a bit by requiring people to actually read a few instructions before going there. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:08, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Deletion of text

An editor decided my unpublished article infringed copyrighted material. The editor deleted 90% of my article, destroying hours of my work. I cannot undo this destruction. Given that my article was unpublished, it seems to me that I should have had an opportunity to address the alleged copyright issues before most of my article was deleted.Sylvan1971 (talk) 05:29, 13 November 2023 (UTC)Sylvan1971 (talk) 05:27, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

User:Sylvan1971, given your background I won't spout policy at you. You may have luck requesting an admin at WP:RFU to email you a copy of the draft at the time it was revdelled. Folly Mox (talk) 05:32, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

For clarity though, anything saved to Wikipedia is technically "published", no matter what namespace it is in. WP:RFU also specifically states it will not provide copyvio material, which I misremembered. Folly Mox (talk) 05:38, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Sylvan1971, this is exactly the reason why the "Save" button was changed to "Publish" a while back. Every page in Wikipedia - Userspace, Draft space, everything - is publicly readable and so "published", and copyright infringement is not permitted anywhere.

As a practical note, starting with copyright material and trying to edit it to make it acceptable sounds to me like an extremely unproductive and risky way of working - it is likely to lead to close paraphrasing. Though it is an entirely different issue from Writing Wikipedia articles backwards, it is similar in that what you are doing is starting with something unacceptable and trying to massage it into something acceptable. In both cases, it is possible, but difficult and much more work than the recommended approach. ColinFine (talk) 12:12, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Appreciate your reply. Just to be clear, this was alleged infringement. Sylvan1971 (talk) 16:09, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

@Sylvan1971: to be clear, this deletion was needed to comply with the law. It's not just Wikipedia policy. When you make text available to others on the Internet, you are "publishing" it as the term "publish" is used in copyright law. It does not matter that you did not want others to see this material yet. Other websites, including major ones, are sloppy about this, but Wikipedia is not. In addition to ethical reasons, we also do not want hostile parties to claim that WP encourages or allows copyright violation. -Arch dude (talk) 14:49, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Appreciate your reply. Just to be clear, this was alleged infringement. Sylvan1971 (talk) 16:09, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

By the way, the relevant statue defines publication as "the distribution of copies or phonorecords of a work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending." Clicking the "Publish" button, particularly on a draft which has not yet been accepted, is not publication. However, I do recognize Wikipedia's right to create policies it deems reasonable. In this case, they are misguided. Furthermore, a single editor's determination of infringement, without granting the user a short window to reply or edit, is patently unfair.Sylvan1971 (talk) 18:40, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

As others have indicated above, Wikipedia assiduously strives not to break the law, for example by permitting copyright infringements on its servers.

If copyright infringement is alleged, the legally safer course is to remove it until it is proved not to be infringement. Wikipedia's site; Wikipedia's rules; Wikipedia's procedures.

Wikimedia's Legal Department concluded that saving material to a publically accessible page is, or could be construed by a court to be, publishing it.

A great many Wikipedia editors compose draft material in, or copy it to, documents on their own devices in case issues like these, or system glitches, etc., remove or lose the material.

My understanding is that such material will still be accessible to Administrators with certain rights, and that you can appeal to them to check it and restore a copy to you if they judge this appropriate. I do not know the procedures myself as I have never been involved in such a situation, but I see you have been given relevant instructions on your User talk page, and I encourage you to follow them up. Complaining about the issue on this Help desk, most of whose responders are not Admins, cannot achieve anything. Sorry. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.2.5.208 (talk) 21:12, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Google Earth link

Russian labels have been randomly showing up as placemarks on Google Earth all of a sudden. I tried turning off some layers and no success until I turned off Wikipedia. I love both GE and Wikipedia. I hope you can fix this. Andrew AMorgan (talk) 07:07, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Seems to be fixed. Thanks! AMorgan (talk) 04:20, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

I want to make my own user page can anyone help

pls help XUnknown Entity (talk) 08:28, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

You've already made your user page- User:XUnknown Entity. 331dot (talk) 08:39, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

And please don't ask the same question in multiple places. ColinFine (talk) 12:13, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Hello, I am trying to make a wikipedia page for my college.

My page is just being deleted because of the lack of the secondary sources. I have added the secondary sources what else should I do? BibekChand (talk) 08:57, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

BibekChand You should first stop attempting to edit the redirect. The best way to create a new article is to use the submission process via the Article Wizard. You will need to first gather the independent reliable sources you have and then summarize what they say- your attempt did not do that. See WP:BACKWARD. 331dot (talk) 09:03, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Reminder: Kantipur Engineering College is currently nominated for deletion. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 10:45, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Could the article Bromine rewrited as the follwing below?

Bromine is a chemical element; it has symbol Br and atomic number 35 instead of Bromine is a chemical element; it has symbol Br and atomic number 35. It would be useful of you if you are willing to support me in the work. 2001:EE0:4BC6:DB70:8C60:E4FE:CDA3:8239 (talk) 14:42, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

There is a full discussion of this topic at WT:WikiProject_Elements#"a"_chemical_element_or_"the"_chemical_element. Please comment there after reading that whole section. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:49, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

No. I am not about to concern that matter. I may be here to please someone including you to fix some synchronizing errors while reading around any articles about chemical elements. Other way, I would recommend double checking the message I sent above. Thanks. 2001:EE0:4BC6:DB70:8C60:E4FE:CDA3:8239 (talk) 14:55, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

If you're not going to take the time to engage with a relevant discussion on a relevant page, why should anyone bother helping you on a less relevant page? —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 15:29, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

This is the help desk, and most of the 100,000 or so active Wikipedia editors do not work on or read the help desk. You need to attract the attention of those editors who might be interested in your project. I recommend asking on the talk page of one or more of the projects listed at Category:WikiProject Elements. Take a look at those project pages and pick one that is active and that seems to be a good match for your project. If you wish to collaborate with other editors, it's a great deal easier if you start by creating an account, because communicating with an anonymous editor is not easy. -Arch dude (talk) 15:08, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

FYI

This seems to be the same Vietnamese editor whose original comment (now archived) triggered work to make our articles about the chemical elements consistent. We completed that work yesterday (as linked above) and I have no idea what the IP now wants us to do, since the first two snippets in the posting above are identical! Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:31, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

No, they are not identical:

'''Bromine''' is a [[chemical element]]; it has [[symbol]] '''Br''' and [[atomic number]] 35

vs

'''Bromine''' is a [[chemical element]]; it has symbol '''Br''' and [[atomic number]] 35

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:36, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Looks like they want the word symbol to be unlinked? —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 15:36, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

@Michael D. Turnbull: It's not linked at the moment. They probably want it linked, which is probably reasonable. Bazza (talk) 16:08, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

DOH! It was supposed to be linked (see the discussion at the link I gave). Bromine was done by User:Praseodymium-141 yesterday and seems to have gone wrong. I think that all the others are correct: with the link, as we intended. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:13, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Problem

I no longer receive notifications of discussions, only some. JackkBrown (talk) 15:41, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

JackkBrown, what do you mean by 'notifications' and 'discussions'? Make sure you are subscribed to each discussion you want to receive notifications for. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 15:45, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Always be specific when you report an issue, e.g. posting a diff you think should have notified you. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:54, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

@Sungodtemple: thank you very much, I solved it! JackkBrown (talk) 16:15, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

@PrimeHunter: anyway, here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Dicklyon; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Italy; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Pecorino_Sardo. JackkBrown (talk) 16:18, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

@JackkBrown: I have linked to your user page, so you should receive a notification about this post. In this post,this post, and this post, the users didn't link to your user page or use the {{ping}} template, so you would not receive a notification (unless you subscribed to the page or section). For more information, see Help:Notifications. GoingBatty (talk) 17:27, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

I have not received a parcel from your shop

5 Wikipedia pens 80.42.41.235 (talk) 16:49, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

The store is not directly connected to Wikipedia, no one here can help you. You'll have to use the Contact us link at the bottom of the store page - X201 (talk) 17:02, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Referencing errors on Chennai Formula Racing Circuit

Reference help requested.

Thanks, Davidindia (talk) 19:07, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

It appears this has been resolved. Tollens (talk) 20:54, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Unable to edit from the Safari browser even when logged in

A few days ago I started experiencing a weird problem on my home Apple laptop: When I try to edit Wikipedia from the Safari browser, even when logged in as Nsk92, I get blacked with an error message "This IP address has been blocked from editing Wikipedia. [...] The IP address that you are currently using has been blocked because it is believed to be a web host provider or colocation provider. To prevent abuse, web hosts and colocation providers may be blocked from editing Wikipedia." The issue only affects Safari and I am able to edit from other browsers such as Chrome and Firefox. I am connected to the Internet using WiFi (via my Verizon internet router) and I am not using a VPN or anything of the sort. Safari is my default browser and I am used to working with it, so this issue is rather annoying even though I can currently get around it. Still, can anyone tell me what's gooing on and why this is happening? And is there some fix that would allow me to edit from Safari? Thanks, Nsk92 (talk) 21:43, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

That does sound odd. Techie types tend to hang around WP:VPT more than here, so you might get more response there. ColinFine (talk) 22:03, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Suspect this is because of the usage of iCloud Private Relay. See https://support.apple.com/en-us/102022 —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 10:54, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

to my bio and photo to Puerto Rican artist and?

Hola I'm a Puerto Rican actor; 'Cheo Tapia' you could Google me? would like to add me in the Puerto Rica list of actors and artist CheoT505 (talk) 22:48, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

what? no. ltbdl (talk) 01:37, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

@CheoT505: Lists like that one are not lists of people. They are lists of Wikipedia articles about people. Unless there is a Wikioedia article about you, your name cannot be added to that list, so wait until an article about you is added to Wikipedia. Before you ask: it is unlikely that we can have an article about you. to have an artilce, you would need to be notable by our definition: see WP:NACTOR. Please do not try to add an article about yourself: it is not easy and it usually does not end well. Take a look at WP:TOOSOON, WP:AUTO, and WP:AMOUNT. -Arch dude (talk) 03:14, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Got it

COPY CheoT505 (talk) 16:59, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

November 14

Removing italics from article title

Is there a way to remove the italic format from an article title? For example, Together in Electric Dreams is styled in italics, but it's a song—not an album/EP—so it should not have that styling. There is no "italic title" template on the page, so I don't know how to fix this. ResPM (T🔈🎵C) 13:44, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Italic title is almost always the results of the "italic title" template or an infobox that forces italicization. This was the latter, with the use of Infobox album lower on the page leading to unwanted consequences. I think I fixed it. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 13:51, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Looks good to me. Thanks. ResPM (T🔈🎵C) 13:53, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Trigon (game)

Is "Trigon" a term to be put in italics? JackkBrown (talk) 14:51, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

@JackkBrown: I don't think so, just like we don't italicize football, baseball, or basketball. GoingBatty (talk) 15:17, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Or Pasuckuakohowog. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:30, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

@GoingBatty: @Gråbergs Gråa Sång: why then are "Caid (sport)" and "Episkyros" put in italics? JackkBrown (talk) 15:40, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Someone thought it was a good idea? It may be. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:46, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

@JackkBrown: I think your questions about italicization would be better asked at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Text formatting. GoingBatty (talk) 16:09, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Request rollback

I made a mess, could you kindly undo all my changes on the Trigon (game) page? JackkBrown (talk) 15:45, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

 Done. Maproom (talk) 15:53, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Italicising words written in the Greek alphabet seems weird. It's not like anyone would mistake them for English words. Maproom (talk) 15:58, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

@JackkBrown: As you will know from reading MOS:FOREIGNITALICS which you have been directed to many times, MOS:BADITALICS forbids it. You have also been told not to use direct italics, but to place non-English words inside the appropriate {{lang}} tag. Ecco un esempio: {{lang|it|Ecco un esempio}}. And, εδώ είναι ένα άλλο παράδειγμα: {{lang|el|εδώ είναι ένα άλλο παράδειγμα}}. Bazza (talk) 16:12, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

It is wrong to italicize words written with the Greek script per MOS:FOREIGN.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 16:16, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Notability Question

I'm interested in writing my first BLP. My articles to date have all been listings on the National Register of Historic Places, so inherently notable. I'm reasonably sure my potential subject meets our notability threshold, but I would appreciate a second opinion so as to not waste my time. My question mainly involves the balance of regional vs. national coverage: the person is a real estate developer who has received extensive regional independent news coverage. I've only found one national source so far, but it's a good one: a 1,300-word profile in the New York Times (an abridged version of the same article ran in the Seattle Times). Am I correct in assuming the combined coverage lends notability, or would more national coverage be necessary? DrOrinScrivello (talk) 16:15, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

It is not possible to give you a definite answer without particulars, but on the basis of what you've said: a single source is rarely adequate; the NYT is generally a reliable source but reliability does not depend only on the publisher, but on other factors as well.

And it depends very much on what you mean by a "profile" - that often means something that will basically have been provided by the subject or their associates, which is not what is required. Is this the result of independent research, or has it been written up from an interview or press release?

I do wonder why people so often think that they can get an answer to a question about a specific case without telling us what that specific case is. ColinFine (talk) 16:23, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

@ColinFine My apologies for being vague; it was more out of a mindset of trying to give enough information without making someone actually scan through a half dozen sources. The subject's name is Ed Walker from Roanoke, Virginia - the NYT piece contains quotes from an interview but seems independently written. I don't have a WP Library-friendly link, but the citation is Ryzik, Melena.  "Virginia Developer Is On A Mission To Revive His Town". New York Times; New York, N.Y.. 25 July 2012: A.11.

And I do realize a single source would likely be insufficient. The article would be combined with the considerable amount of regional coverage, I just don't know how much weight that hold towards overall notability. Thanks for the assistance either way. DrOrinScrivello (talk) 16:38, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

@DrOrinScrivello: See this archived version. When writing the citation in a Wikipedia article, you don't need to write that the New York Times is published in New York. The location would be more important for a smaller publication, or an ambiguous name such as The Record. GoingBatty (talk) 17:01, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

@GoingBatty Thanks for the link and the tip. I copy pasted from Proquest and thought to remove the "Late Edition (East Coast)" but didn't think about the location.

I'll add that this is particular occasion is not a big deal, I have plenty to occupy my time with the project Ed Walker article or no, but it has piqued my interest for future reference regarding national vs. regional coverage and notability. In doing research before coming here I came across WP:AUD, but that is only specific to organizations. Is there an exisiting essay or guideline that applies to people? DrOrinScrivello (talk) 17:17, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

@DrOrinScrivello: Yes, WP:NBIO. GoingBatty (talk) 17:53, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

@GoingBatty I'm aware of WP:NBIO, but it doesn't seem to make any distinction between national and regional coverage. I found some discussion in the archives of its talk page, but nothing definitive. I'll likely just stay away from any fringe cases and stick with my corner of the encyclopedia that's a little more straightforward. DrOrinScrivello (talk) 18:38, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

If you are unsure, start a draft in your userspace. As long as it's in your userspace and not draft space, it won't be subject to G13, so you can take your time. If you are unsure about the sourcing, ask someone to take a look at it once you're relatively happy with it. If you really want to subject it to some scrutiny, you can send it through articles for creation, but don't feel obligated. I would encourage you to go for it though. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 22:16, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

@ONUnicorn Thanks for the suggestions and encouragement. I only recently discovered how useful the userspace can be. I'll work up a draft eventually and see how it goes. DrOrinScrivello (talk) 22:51, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

I wanted to Change my user name.

I made my user name Fortune2725, then went back and tried to change it to my Name Ryan Hyman, and it now added another account that is somehow linked to the Fortune2725 user name. I do not want to use Fortune2725 as my user name. I would like to use my name Ryan Hyman. Fortune2725 (talk) 22:30, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

@Fortune2725: Hi there! I see you successfully created the Ryan Hyman user. Log out of Wikipedia, and log in as Ryan Hyman, and you'll be all set. GoingBatty (talk) 22:34, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

It said the account already exists now. Fortune2725 (talk) 22:36, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Yes; assuming you were the one who created Ryan Hyman, you can log out of this account and enter the credentials to use that one. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 22:42, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Special:Log/Fortune2725 shows it was you who created Ryan Hyman. As the others say, just log out and back in as Ryan Hyman. The account Fortune2725 will still exist but you can ignore it. If you want to edit beyond this section with both accounts then see Wikipedia:Sockpuppetry. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:19, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Wikilinking Special:Log

Is there a way to Wikilink rather than external-link a Special:Log? Specifically, a Wikilink instead of https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=Selby+Abbey Something like [[Special:Log&page=Selby+Abbey]] which doesn't work. Special:Log&page=Selby+Abbey If you could point me to a help page, that would be great. help:log doesn't seem to have any such info. Thank you Adakiko (talk) 23:05, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

It doesn't look as if you can: you can specify the kind of log in a wikilink, but not the "target". See Help:Special page. ColinFine (talk) 23:11, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

@Adakiko: I think you can only wikilink by log type and performer, not target. See mw:Help:Log. Query strings with "&" never work in wikilinks. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:14, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

You can also link to single specific log entries with Special:Redirect, like Special:Redirect/logid/155248539. But no, you can't wikilink by target, which is the most glaring omission, nor by subtype (like only restorations in the deletion log). —Cryptic 23:18, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! Adakiko (talk) 03:56, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

November 15

Help! I used to be able to choose language of the artickles

I want to search articles and have an option to see these articles in different languages, like in the old Wikipedia version. English versions often are different from, say, those in the Russian Wikipedia. Help! Alex R. (talk) 01:56, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Hey there. I assume that you are currently using the Vector (2022) skin? If so, you can change languages of the article (you may be viewing) in the top right corner. Well known subjects are available in the Russian language. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 02:25, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Italics

How do I put italics on one word in the title, such as the word oinochoe in "Oinochoe by the Shuvalov Painter"? JackkBrown (talk) 03:09, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

@JackkBrown: There is a parameter in {{Italic title}} you can use to specify which part of the title to put in italics. RudolfRed (talk) 03:17, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

@JackkBrown:{{Italic title|string=Oinochoe}} Jimfbleak - talk to me? 09:24, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

@JackkBrown:: You might see other editors use {{DISPLAYTITLE}}, such as {{DISPLAYTITLE:''Oinochoe'' by the Shuvalov Painter}}. GoingBatty (talk) 16:54, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Did I handle this okay?

I noticed a typo on Corpus Delicti (band), saw that the article was...really bad... and went in the history to find that an editor added a lot of content to the article with a lot of problems. I went on the editor's talk page and left a message explaining why the edits weren't very good. Was my handling of the situation okay? Dialmayo (talk) (Contribs) she/her 12:48, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Yes, if it was one editor who did those edits, then just revert the edits and leave a message on the editor's talk page explaining the problems. That's what you did, and I'd say that's good! ThatOneWolf ^{(talk|contribs)} 12:59, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Hi there Dialmayo, thanks for coming to the help desk! the edit seemed like copyvio to me so I ran a quick test using earwig and it was a direct copy and paste from another website that was not suitably licensed, so I reverted the edits and tagged it for revision deletion for copyright reasons. I echo ThatOneWolf in saying that your note on the other editor's talk page was really good, thanks for your contributions! Justiyaya 13:05, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Good catch with the copyvio! That's a neat tool, by the way. I'll make sure to remember it. Dialmayo (talk) (Contribs) she/her 15:37, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

"Thyrsus"

Hi, "Thyrsus" and "Kylix" goes in italics? JackkBrown (talk) 16:50, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

@JackkBrown: I think your questions about which words should be italicized would be better asked at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Text formatting. GoingBatty (talk) 16:56, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

James IV king of Scots

The entry on Scotland refers to James IV as being the last British king to die in battle . This is wrong . He was Scottish and never was British . How can we change that please Ensb1 (talk) 18:40, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

@Ensb1. I see the lead of James IV of Scotland states "James was the last monarch in Great Britain to be killed in battle", and Great Britain includes Scotland, so this seems OK. I don't see anywhere in the article where he is described as British. However, if I'm missing the sentence you want changed, then I suggest you start a discussion on Talk:James IV of Scotland, and specify the exact sentence you want to be changed, and suggest the alternate wording. Or be bold and change it yourself. Thanks, and happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 19:00, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

yes but the entry on scotland itself says british and this is what needs to be changed

eg

The Treaty of Perpetual Peace was signed in 1502 by James IV of Scotland and Henry VII of England. James married Henry's daughter, Margaret Tudor. James invaded England in support of France under the terms of the Auld Alliance and became the last British monarch to die in battle, at Flodden in 1513. 151.43.159.130 (talk) 19:51, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

British is just wrong> he was scottish.. always and would never have accepted being designated as british Ensb1 (talk) 19:56, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

I've changed Scotland to match James IV of Scotland: "the last monarch in Great Britain to die in battle". I hope that satisfies all. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 20:18, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

[Edit Conflict] Ensb1, the terms 'British' and 'Scottish' can refer to ethnicities, regionalities and nationalities, which are not always the same thing, and which all vary in application according to date.

With reference to James IV, he is considered British because he was both native to and ruler of a part of Great Britain, and it is a given that (what is now) "Scotland" (previously Caledonia or Pictland, taken over by Scots from Ulster) is and always has been geographically part of the island of Great Britain (and used to be called "North Britain" in one period). Incidentally, his family line probably descended from a Breton who took part in the Norman conquest of England.

Description of people in a modern encyclopaedia article are generally made according to modern historical analyses and understanding. What James IV himself would have called himself at the time, because of political circumstances then applying, has no bearing on the matter. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.2.5.208 (talk) 20:23, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

no no no..great britain did not exist at that time full stop. he was scottish and king of scots and would not himself consider himself as british..That is the salient point. show him some respect . of course there are many ethnicities and many ways of being scottish but at that time he was monarch of an independent kingdom fighting the english .. it was not a civil war but a war between two states.. end of exchange he was scottish Ensb1 (talk) 20:38, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Being Scottish (which he was) does not exclude him from being British in the modern sense being used. You are equivocating. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.2.5.208 (talk) 02:46, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

In Great Britain it says "The term Great Britain was first used officially in 1474, in the instrument drawing up the proposal for a marriage between Cecily, daughter of Edward IV of England, and James, son of James III of Scotland". The names "μεγάλη Βρεττανία" and "megale Brettania" were used in the second century A.D. Maproom (talk) 08:32, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

This is nonsense. Saying that he was Scottish and not British makes as much sense as saying that he was Scottish and not European, or that he was a man and not a human being. JBW (talk) 19:09, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

How could he ever have been British ? For goodness sake . If he weee here he would tell you he was Scottish . Ensb1 (talk) 19:23, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Siana Cup; Lip Cup

Could someone rename these two pages? "Cup" should be in lowercase. Thank you! "Siana Cup; "Lip Cup". JackkBrown (talk) 21:48, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

You have the ability to perform most page moves yourself, JackkBrown. Where you don't, or where some other problem might arise, Wikipedia:Moving a page explains how to proceed. -- Hoary (talk) 22:28, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

@JackkBrown: You have been told, on at least three separate occasions at the help desk, how to change a page's title by moving it, and what you can do if you can't do it yourself. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 23:16, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Accessing to the previous Help_desk page content

How Can I access to the older versions of this page (Help_desk) to refer to the reply for my post around 10 days ago ?? Bezyjoon (talk) 23:37, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Your reply is at Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2023 November 4#Adjusting the Break Line Height to a fraction ratio. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 23:43, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, But I would like to know how I can access older posts for future reference ? Bezyjoon (talk) 23:45, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

@Bezyjoon: There's a callout box on the right-hand side near the top of this page titled "Search the help desk archives and other help pages". You can type terms to look up then click Search the archives. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 23:47, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks ! Bezyjoon (talk) 23:49, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

November 16

Thank you

Britain did not exist in 1513. You are placing modern ideas into then please stop this Ensb1 (talk) 06:20, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Ensb1, we have 6,745,909 articles and people answering questions here are not mind readers. Which specific article are you taking about, and which specific passage? Vague griping is not useful. Cullen328 (talk) 06:25, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Ensb1, "Thank you" is a polite but curiously uninformative heading. I note that on a possibly related matter, you recently wrote "end of exchange". -- Hoary (talk) 06:54, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Ensb1, please read Great_Britain#Terminology.   Maproom (talk) 08:35, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

You already appear to have raised this at Talk:James_IV_of_Scotland#James_IV_king_of_Scots, which is the correct place. There is no need to mention it here as well unless you have a specific question about editing Wikipedia. Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:45, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Re: template merges

This is a general Wikipedia question, so an answer isn't pressing but I'm just curious. The Vital article template has been planned to merge into the banner shell since May of this year. Is there any set time for these merges or is the merge simply done when someone with initiative who knows how to edit a template does? PARAKANYAA (talk) 06:40, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Government of the USSR and Premier of the USSR

Hi

The Government of the Soviet Union has its own article, which is good. But the Government of the USSR for the period 1922-1946 (then named Council of People's Commissars of the Soviet Union) also has its own article and the Council of Ministers (Soviet Union) also has its own articles. These articles more or less say the same thing. Moreover, one also has an article for the Council of People's Commissars. The Soviet Constitution clearly states that the Council of People's Commissars, Council of Ministers, Cabinet of Ministers el cetre are all "The highest executive and administrative organ of state authority of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics is Council of People's Commissars/Council of Ministers/Cabinet of Ministers". That is, they are the same bodies.

The argument for having distinct articles is that a) the government functioned differently in 1920 than in 1980 and b) having one article makes it difficult to see that. Not only is this wrong, most scholarly work on the USSR says the government and economy functioned more or less the same from the 1930s to the 1980s, it also begs the question why we haven't split up the HM Treasury, the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, Prime Minister of Norway el cetra for all these institutions have undergone name changes and, of course, undergone transformations in how they worked.

Likewise, we have an article, Premier of the Soviet Union which is WP:FL, good, which is about the Soviet heads of government. We also have, for no apparent reason, articles on the Chairman of the Council of People's Commissars of the Soviet Union and the Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the Soviet Union, which deal with the same topic and don't bring anything new.

My main point here is that, regarding the Soviet Government, we don't have one article on the topic but four. How that helps the reader is beyond me. The logical thing would be to have a "Government of the Soviet Union" article and a "History of the Government of the Soviet Union" article if one is interested in reading about the government's historical transformation.

@MarcusTraianus: is the main creator of these articles. We are discussing Talk:Council_of_People's_Commissars_of_the_Soviet_Union#Merge article to Government of the Soviet Union? in which it has become increasingly clear to me that he does not understand the topic at hand or how the government of the USSR works. This is, of course, a difficult subject, and I'm course lucky that I have devoted a thesis on the subject of communist institutions (which I handed in last week), so I know more than the average person and user. Writing on Soviet institutions on WP is very bad, and infactual. For instance, the Politics of the Soviet Union says the USSR had branches of government. The whole point of communist politics is the principle of unified power, that there is only one single branch of government, and that is the highest organ of state power. The editors who have written these articles clearly do not comprehend the subject and misinforms our readers as well.

@Feeblezak: You're also plinged since you reestablished the Council of Ministers page.

The reason why I took this discussion here is that no one is participating at the Talk:Council_of_People's_Commissars_of_the_Soviet_Union#Merge article to Government of the Soviet Union? other than I N and MarcusTraianus, which is troublesome. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheUzbek (talk • contribs)

TheUzbek, coming here to get expert content feedback about USSR governance at a general help forum like this is not a reasonable expectation. I have almost certainly read more about the Soviet Union than a majority of Wikipedia editors and yet I am unprepared to comment about the substance of your claims without hours of reading and research. which isn't going to happen since I have many other things going on in my life. The content dispute should be resolved based on what high quality reliable academic sources say. What we will not do is make major changes based on input from a totally anonymous Wikipedia editor who claims to have submitted a thesis on the matter. Kremlinology and Sovietology are established academic fields, and Wikipedia editors are expected to summarize the work of the widely recognized experts in those closely related fields. Cullen328 (talk) 07:47, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

I totally concur, and as I tried to write, the sources are unanimous... If not here where are we going to get input? TheUzbek (talk) 07:53, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

And expert content; I need someone to see WP:OBVIOUS and WP:REDUNDANT. TheUzbek (talk) 07:59, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

@TheUzbek You made the merger proposal on 4 November but I don't see it mentioned at WP:USSR's list of announcements as a current proposal. I think you would get more attention by alerting the Project. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:22, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

See Talk:Premier_of_the_Soviet_Union#Merge_proposal. A user tried that but failed. @Skjoldbro: TheUzbek (talk) 12:29, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

How reliable of a source is Newgrounds.com?

Should I cite from there or avoid it entirely? Rubellaclinton (talk) 09:33, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

@rubellaclinton: generally, avoid it. it's user-generated content. ltbdl (talk) 10:19, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Got it. Thanks. Rubellaclinton (talk) 11:06, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Questions about Wikipedia for an application for a prestigous recognition for Wikipedia

Hi all

I know this probably isn't exactly the right place to ask this, but I'm not sure exactly where would be better place. To explain, I'm most of the way through writing an application to request Wikipedia is recognised on a prestigous international list of important cultural heritage. With others I've completed most of the application, however I would really appreciate some help and ideas with the following parts.

A. What makes Wikipedia as unique? e.g things where it is the largest, most viewed, largest community etc. Anything that sets Wikipedia apart from other websites which provide information.

B. There is a section where I need to answer questions on the reliability and accuracy of Wikiepdia. Any ideas very welcome, I've discovered an academic, Dr Amy Bruckman, who studied the accuracy of Wikipedia and she defined five different aspects of good systems that facilitate the construction of accurate knowledge:

1. Opportunities for review
2. Visibility of degree of review (that the review process is visible)
3. Support for consensus formation
4. Provide metadata on the provenance of information
5. Provide metadata on the credibility of sources

Please could you suggest which functions of Wikipedia fulfil these criteria?

Thanks very much

John Cummings (talk) 11:18, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

John Cummings, rather obviously, Wikipedia is very big. People use it because people use it; and in this regard, it's very similar to Facebook, Twitter-that-now-has-a-sillier-name, eBay, LinkedIn, Youtube, IMDb, and a few more. Also, while Google develops different search bubbles for different people, if an English-reading person looks up XYZ Google does seem to have a general tendency to prioritize the English-language Wikipedia article on XYZ. (This is also true for Japanese. I wonder about Swedish.) My ideas on the reliability and accuracy of Wikipedia depend considerably on the quality of the articles I've most recently read, and what mood I'm in; I see no reason why anyone other than myself should prioritize them over the results of academic studies, some of which are cited by the articles Reliability of Wikipedia and Wikipedia and fact-checking. In English-language Wikipedia, I do notice an enormous difference between (A) the (moderately stringent) demands made of drafts before they can be promoted to articles, and (B) the (extraordinarily permissive) attitude towards junk articles that have already sat around for years. Good luck with your enterprise! -- Hoary (talk) 11:46, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

A See this page of statistics. For me, the biggest thing that sets Wikipedia apart is that it is a wiki in which (with a few exceptions) every single edit on every article and every Talk Page is still available in the page history, so the evolution of the present text is available to those interested.

B These aspects are often discussed in The Signpost, so that's where I would look for insight and analysis. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:07, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks Michael D. Turnbull, can you think of any specific articles from Signpost that might be relevant? John Cummings (talk) 12:17, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

I was mainly thinking about the "Recent research" section that appears in nearly every edition, e.g. in the archives for 2022 which looks at how Wikipedia has been commented on in external academic research. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:54, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks again Michael D. Turnbull, really helpful. John Cummings (talk) 13:13, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

@John Cummings: as part of your research, perhaps you could update our self-referential Wikipedia article and its related articles. -Arch dude (talk) 17:47, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

football kit/pattern

Hi, when entering the codes for the colors of a team's shirt, I should put that the shirt is both half of one color and half of another, and that it has a white cross in the middle, but I can't find the pattern anywhere GAALIIAV (talk) 18:02, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

conflict of interest

Hi, I read that if you are writing a page on behalf of a third person, I have to declare my conflict of interest by writing that the page is made on commission. Where should I write the conflict of interest? GAALIIAV (talk) 18:05, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Hi, please refer to WP:COIPAYDISCLOSE for where you can declare it and what you need to declare. If you have further questions please let us know Best,--PeaceNT (talk) 18:09, 16 November 2023 (UTC)