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Revision as of 06:51, 10 July 2008
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by User:The Rambling Man 06:51, 10 July 2008 [1].
I am nominating this list for FLC because, well, obviously I think it meets the criteria. A few things first, however.
- First, there is a lot of text. Despite this, I believe that it is clearly set up as a list, and not as an article, and should go to FLC and not FAC.
- Second, there are quite a few images, which is becoming rather unpopular. They are, however, in infoboxes. In an article about one album, a fair-use image is allowed in the infobox- in fact, there's a whole separate section for them when you upload a file. By extenuation, in an article about several albums, each album-section should be able to have it's own, given (and this is important) that there is no sub-article about that album that also has the image. This is not a discography article- the albums which have images do not have their own articles. The ones that do, down at the bottom, do not have images in the infobox for just that reason.
This is my first time at FLC, so don't kill me if I've overlooked anything, please. --PresN (talk) 21:30, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
- There are a number of MOS issues which I will run down.
- Remove the bold formatting because of the linked text, per WP:BOLDTITLE.
- Numerical ranges use en dashes per WP:DASH; example: "Fantasy 1987-1994, an" → "Fantasy 1987–1994, an"
Gary King (talk) 22:29, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Bolding removed.
- I'm not sure what you mean by the en dashes, I copied the dash from WP:DASH, but it looks identical to the dash I make with the keyboard, ie keyboard(-) looks the same as (–). At any rate, isn't there a script that will fix those? I thought I saw it once at FAC, and that would be quicker than doing it by hand. Thank you for commenting! --PresN (talk) 23:38, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Hmm, but only in the editing box, not the actual page. Right, I'll get to work then. --PresN (talk) 23:39, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- That was faster than I'd though it would be, done. At least, I think so... --PresN (talk) 23:43, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support - A long time in the making, it combines about a million stub articles and put them into this extremely well crafted list. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 23:17, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
- The first sentence may be slightly confusing for general readers. It says "Since the series' inception" but a person that don't know anything about the subject might wonder what series that actually refers to. Also, see if the repetition "produced"/"producer" can be avoided.
- Done. --PresN (talk) 18:58, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Actually, the lead currently amounts to 20% of the whole article (not counting infoboxes and tracklists); it's very long. I believe lead sections of lists are meant to summarize general and important facts about the entries rather than literally introducing every one of them individually.
- The lead has now been completely reworked, and is much smaller. Please look over it to see if it's more to what you were thinking. --PresN (talk) 18:58, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Album titles should be italicized per MOS:TITLE, even in headings.
- Done. --PresN (talk) 16:12, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm not sure about the images, but what's up with Image:Final Fantasy Anthology Album CD.jpg? It's not an album cover at all, despite what its fair-use rationale states.
- The CD doesn't have an album cover, it was just a cd which came with the game. I suppose that the fair-use rationale is incorrect in that case, as you state. Is there a better one that you know of? --PresN (talk) 16:12, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Final Fantasy Finest Box is missing a tracklist. 183 is a lot, but the FFIV tracks that were not in the original OST should be listed, at least.
- "New tracks" tracklist added. --PresN (talk) 16:34, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't see it? Kariteh (talk) 15:54, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- That's bizzare, I did it, not sure when it got reverted. Put in again. --PresN (talk) 12:23, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- What is the difference between the "Outside groups" and the first section? Why is Distant Worlds not considered an outside group for instance? I think this should be explained more clearly.
- The list makes a distinction between Square Enix the producer and Square Enix the owner of the music. The first section is albums that Square Enix paid someone to take the music that they owned the rights to and create an album of either it or arrangements of it. Sometimes this person was Nobuo Uematsu, sometimes it was an orchestra group. The second section is composed of outside independant groups which produced their own albums, either with an official license, such as The Black Mages or Project Majestic Mix, or without an official license, such as Voices of the Lifestream. The "concert" disks are fuzzier, and I'm going to go now and look closer at the relationship between the performers and Square Enix as to which section they should be in. --PresN (talk) 18:58, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Difficult one but: could any Japanese reviews be included for comprehensiveness and per WP:BIAS? Perhaps Japanese reviewers didn't have any problem with the cheesy lyrics of Final Fantasy: Pray, unlike Patrick Gann of RPGFan.
- I'll ask at the FF wikiproject, but I don't read or speak japanese, so I wouldn't be able to find anything. --PresN (talk) 19:48, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- These sources do not comply with WP:RS: Square Haven (fansite), all the ffmusic.info pages (personal), VGMdb here and here (user-submitted), and Destructoid (blog).
- Square Haven, VGMdb, and Destructoid sources removed, and since they were superfluous to begin with (thankfully), not replaced. As to the ffmusic ones... I'm using them mainly as a translation for the japanese titles...though I suppose that means I should remove them for the other sources. I'm going to go ahead and remove them all, on the assumption that direct translations don't really need cites, as words mean what they mean, but I just had them because I thought it was a nice thing for people (like me) who don't know Japanese. --PresN (talk) 19:48, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The last two references are not exactly reliable either (FFWorld and Kotaku). Yeah, I was the one to add these two refs, but I didn't know the list was going to go to FLC before the release of the lattest album. It's still unreleased, but if reliable sources can be found I think it would definitely be okay. Kariteh (talk) 08:57, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Replaced refs with the Japanese sources they were based on, Square Enix and Famitsu (A reliable japanese gaming off/online publication). --PresN (talk) 18:07, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
- First, this one is a good example of how the sea of bright blue in the text damages the readability and appearance of the prose, and dilutes the high-value links. I boldly implemented a removal of the most trivial form of linking: the autoformatting of full dates, since there were more than a hundred scattered throughout. Autoformatting is no longer mandatory and is the subject of a head of steam building up at MOSNUM, with calls to even disable it. I wouldn't go that far, but I strongly suggest that the appearance is now considerably improved and the real links more visible to the reader. No one minds reading US formatting, I can assure you, and 99% of readers don't see a preferred format anyway, because they're just visitors: they still put up with the bright blue, though.
- Is there a special dispensation for the NFC rules when it comes to album covers? If not, I wonder whether there are too many (NFCC#3, miminal usage). Pity: they're pretty, but I don't think they significantly add to readers' understanding of the text. I'll ask Black Kite to drop in.
- There are eight audio clips, all with fair-use justification. Minimal use and significant improvement in readers' understanding doesn't appear to justify so many. I don't see much attempt to explain exactly what each clip is demonstrating in terms of musical style, texture, instrumentation, lyrics, etc, preferably features that show how the series evolved or is distinctive for (or even characteristic, in some cases, of) its period. This should appear in the main text. On the info pages, your justification says "A more detailed fair use rationale may be provided by the user who uploaded this recording." "May"? It has always been "must" or "is". The justification must be specific to each location its used on. Again, I'll seek Black Kite's advice on this. TONY (talk) 16:37, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- PS en dashes required for timing ranges on info pages. TONY (talk) 16:39, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Well, can't say I'm sad to see the sea of blue leave. It's much easier to read now, thank you. I will wait on Black Kite's answer as to the images, as I've given my justification above. As to the sound files, they are left-overs from the individual pages that I originally took to make this article. I'll go through and reduce the number, and mess with the Fair Use justifications to them, I didn't write those. --PresN (talk) 19:04, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- There are now 3 audio samples- one of the first album, one of the first vocal album, and one of an orchestral album. Hopefully that's a bit more reasonable. Also- if you have a problem with the "may" in the info pages, I suggest you take it up with whoever made the template, as it's the wording that comes with {{Non-free audio sample}}. You're right, it probably shouldn't say that, given that a FUR is mandatory. --PresN (talk) 19:18, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I have to agree that there is still too much non-free use on this page. Basically, this is a discography, supporting the existing Music of Final Fantasy article. This parent article (and the various Music of (specific FF game) articles) is where a more critical discussion of the works is present, and valid justification for the sound clips can be made, but not here. The images for the albums, given that this is a discography, should be removed per the previous decisions that such lists do not merit images (they are only being used as decoration here, and thus not needed). --MASEM 20:23, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments:
- "F.F. Mix is an arranged, remixed and previously unreleased tracks album of music from the first Final Fantasy IV, V, and VI, remixed and performed primarily by Nobuo Uematsu." what is that supposed to mean??
- That and other similar statements fixed. --PresN (talk) 16:19, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Why the heck are all the catalogue numbers italicized?
- For some reason, I thought they were supposed to be- checking the MOS now. --PresN (talk) 16:19, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Not sure why I thought that, removed. --PresN (talk) 16:51, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I think Masem makes a relevant point regarding music clips.
Circeus (talk) 21:29, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- You're welcome, Pres. Glad you like it. Sadly, Black Kite, one of our most talented copyright people, has walked out in a storm after a nasty ANI yesterday. This is terrible. I'll try to find advice elsewhere. Thanks for your advice re template. And three audio clips sounds much more acceptable to Cr 3. Great! TONY (talk) 03:45, 2 July 2008 (UTC) PS Didn't see Masem's comments: excellent that s/he's dropped in. TONY (talk) 03:46, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Tony, I believe User:Elcobbola comments consistently on non-free content at WP:FAC, and would be a person to go to on the issue. Cheers, Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 06:22, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks, Sephiroth. Sandy's jealous of her reviewers, but I'll see if we can sneak her over for an opinion about the album covers; I'm inclined to think that Masem's right, but it's a great pity. I wonder whether one album cover would get through WP:NFCC#8. TONY (talk) 07:09, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- One is probably fine, but outside the context of an infobox - as a top, right-aligned image, with a good descriptive caption to show an example of a compilation album (the most visually interesting one). But I stand by that this is a discography, and while free/commons images can be used to help out, non-free covers on a per-entry are definitely not allowed. --MASEM 12:55, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- It's not just a normal list-style article. It's of the "merged articles" variety, and as such gets a bit more leeway in using non-free content in each individual section (as opposed to treated the whole as a list) because each section is an article of its own that could not survive independently, yet it has/requires enough details that the usual list format just won't do. (a normal discography would no even have the room for the images) Circeus (talk) 15:25, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I encourage you to read [2] and [3] where similar arguments were used, but not successfully. --Hammersoft (talk) 15:56, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: I've removed the album covers from the article. This is blatant case. Whether it is called a "discography" or "list of" is irrelevant. See Wikipedia:NFC#Images_2. There was a similar case at Margaritaville Cafe: Late Night. See [4]. and [5]. Similar usage at Music of Final Fantasy III, Music of Final Fantasy IV, etc. needs to be removed as well. --Hammersoft (talk) 13:49, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Well, I can't say that I agree with the consensus on album covers- I don't understand how they're tacitly allowed if the article is only about one album, but as soon as you merge multiple albums/articles together, it's a violation of fair use with no increase in the number of images. However, clearly I would be one man against the tide, so to speak, so I'll be removing the images from this article. --PresN (talk) 14:56, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- If an album is significant enough to have its own article, then we have an album cover for it on the article. If it isn't significant enough, and is listed only on a discography, we don't. Go through Category:Discographies. There's not a single article there with album covers on them, and if there were they'd have their covers removed. --Hammersoft (talk) 15:35, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- These FF albums are all notable enough to have their own articles technically. They weren't merged per a lack of notability but because it might be the only way to make them go above the Start- or B-classes. Kariteh (talk) 15:38, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- This article will not have album covers on it. If you want to change that, you're going to have to get a new consensus to allow album covers on discographies. This is unlikely to happen, but you're welcome to try. --Hammersoft (talk) 15:41, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- It was just a clarification. I don't "want to change that", and there's no need to act exactly like Black Kite you know. Kariteh (talk) 15:52, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: With the covers removed, I don't have much upon which to comment. I do agree, for what it's worth, that the hitherto cover usage was superfluous and not in compliance with NFCC#3A and/or NFCC#8. I would note, however, that Image:Final Fantasy 1987-1994 Cover.jpg and Image:Final_Fantasy_Pray.jpg are actually not likely to be eligible for copyright protection ("mere variations of typographic ornamentation, lettering, or coloring" are not eligible for copyright protection in the United States). See, for example, a similar Beatles album cover and a similar Nirvana album cover. ЭLСОВВОLД talk 15:00, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment What's the difference between covers and audio samples? Shouldn't the Wikipedia:NFC guideline mentioned above pertain to both images and audio samples? Kariteh (talk) 16:16, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- They do. --Hammersoft (talk) 16:20, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- :( Well, down they go. Poor article, all ripped apart. --PresN (talk) 16:21, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I edited the guideline page to make it clear that the paragraph about images in discographies also pertains to audio (and video) clips. Kariteh (talk) 16:30, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I will say that you can likely justify a few of those samples over at Music of Final Fantasy (the general series); however, as this article does not have discussion of the music style and just basically presents a list of compilation albums, there's no support for NFC#8 in here. --MASEM 17:06, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: Let's look on the bright side: It got rid of ugly white space. The Prince (talk) 17:08, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - all points raised by above reviewers have been addressed. I would ask that the editors involved (Gary King, Kariteh, Masem, Circeus, Tony, and Hammersoft) please return for another pass or !vote. --PresN (talk) 18:13, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Final Fantasy Finest Box is still missing a tracklist for its extra tracks and the outside/not outside group distinction is still not clearly established. Japanese reviews are also still absent, though I agree it may not be an issue if there really isn't any to begin with (they don't seem to have major sites like RPGFan, etc.). Kariteh (talk) 07:32, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Also the headings should refer to a similar aspect in terms of organization per Wikipedia:List#Organization. "Albums" and "Outside groups" are not similar concepts. "Albums by..." and "Albums by outside groups" would be, for instance, but these aren't the best headings. Kariteh (talk) 15:26, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- You know what? Screw it. Those divisions were a bad idea and have caused nothing but headaches. All albums are now in one section, sorted by release date. This only leaves your point about Japanese reviews, which I'll try for, but am not holding my breath. --PresN (talk) 16:55, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support—Admirable responses by nominator. Good page. Can you make the units clear for durations? "duration of 14:22" --> "14.22 s"? Oops, no, its 14 minutes 22 seconds, is it? TONY (talk) 02:34, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose. Dates not linked for autoformating. Rmhermen (talk) 14:06, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Please read above, links were removed by tony as excessive, and no longer mandatory. --PresN (talk) 16:50, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I agree with PresN. I'd like Rmhermen to explain his vote; it's kind of curious considering Tony1's comments above. Kariteh (talk) 15:04, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support - looks pretty good. One image in the lead though to demonstrate the appearance of a compilation album is in line with fair use concerns though. Up to you whether you want to add one in. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 05:02, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment I went in and did just that. I'm not sure about the result, if anybody want wants to modify it, or even remove it, that's fine by me. If it stays, will someone please remove the orphaned fair use tag on the image? happypal (Talk | contribs) 06:03, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose. Imho, the whole page should be deleted and the albums mentioned/listed in Music of the Final Fantasy series. Then again, I'm a mere wiki-n00b (outside simple use of Wikipedia) and my opinion hardly counts. Maelkoch (talk) 15:57, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- If you're going to plagiarize [6] (at the bottom), then at least source it, 'cause it's funny. The article's also shorter then when that article was written. --PresN (talk) 18:00, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm not plagiarizing anyone or anything - I am quite capable to form my own thoughts and have my own opinions, after all. I've read the article (and found it quite amusing, too), but I really couldn't care less which article is longer than which, but rather if an invidual article is as long as it should be (or not) to my mind, or if a page should be created (or should not exist at all, as in this case). Meh. Good that you linked to the article, though. Maelkoch (talk) 14:54, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Well, sorry for accusing you of plagiarism, but if your only concern about the article is that you don't think it should exist in the first place, then that's not really an actionable oppose, since it doesn't look like anyone else here agrees with you. --PresN (talk) 16:12, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Also, that website article uses flawed logic, compiles incorrect data, and just overall reeks of bias and illogical reasoning. Ongoing projects require a different and much higher level of analysis. I'd go on, but this is not the place for that. — Deckiller 23:45, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support Article is now up to FA standards. Kariteh (talk) 15:04, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support—the Final Fantasy WikiProject continues to be the vanguard of proper video game coverage on Wikipedia. — Deckiller 23:23, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment "Many of the Final Fantasy compilation albums feature minimalist covers, as opposed to the more varied covers of the individual games' soundtracks." -> Source? Kariteh (talk) 20:18, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Eh, removed. --PresN (talk) 20:30, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support - I still think that one non-free image is appropriate, but it is not needed; everything else is fine about this, though I recommended adding the same navbox template at the bottom of the main Music of FF page to here. --MASEM 20:45, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by User:The Rambling Man 06:51, 10 July 2008 [7].
This is a list I have based of several other manager lists, such as; List of Ipswich Town F.C. managers and List of York City F.C. managers. All managers have been listed, including caretakers, and I believe it satisfies the FL criteria. I will be willing to address the comments post haste, although I will be away for the next week. Thanks a bunch. Sunderland06 (talk) 21:32, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support Looks pretty good. Perhaps "None" can be lowercased, though, so it is not confused as a name; it can also even be replaced with an en dash (–). Gary King (talk) 22:31, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Cheers mate, I'll lower case it.
- Just two comments
- Comment The first row of the table gives the date of the club's formation as 1979! - ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:10, 2 July 2008 (UTC) Done :-) Struway2 (talk) 08:09, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support. The only thing I'd like to see is maybe changing the "none"s to en dashes. Otherwise it looks good! Malinaccier (talk) 02:46, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Cheers for the support, and I've changed it to endashes.
- Comment You might consider abbreviating Matches/Won/Drawn/Lost to M/W/D/L and adding a key line above (as here). At the moment, for me on a 1024-width screen, several of the names and a couple of the flag/country entries are wrapping to two lines; reducing the width of the M/W/D/L columns would cure that without making the figures unclear to read. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 07:41, 6 July 2008 (UTC) Done - Changed columns and added key, thanks a bunch mate.[reply]
- Support Meets the FL criteria, though if the prose isn't quite "professional", blame my copyediting. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 07:25, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Cheers for the support, you've been a big help. Sunderland06 (talk) 14:28, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments
- "Sunderland Association Football Club was founded in 1879. After turning professional in 1886, the club appointed Tom Watson as their first manager..." discretionary plural old chestnut warning. Just starts off badly for me, "...was founded... " vs. "their manager..." - I'd be sorely tempted to say the club "were" founded, although that upsets some of our US readers and the old grammar-warrior. Right now it feels clunky.
- That bit of wording's mine, so it's only fair I reply. English plural#Discretionary plural says that A number of words like army, company, ... may refer either to a single entity or the members of the set that compose it. Thus, as H. W. Fowler describes, in British English they are "treated as singular or plural at discretion" As I see it, SAFC the "single entity" was founded, but the members of that entity combine to appoint their manager. Struway2 (talk) 17:53, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Yeah, fine, still reads clunkily to a "traditional" reader like me, but no big deal. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:05, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Matter of taste, I think. I can't get my head round "Template Football Club are an English football club", but I've seen that used. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 18:13, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Yeah, fine, still reads clunkily to a "traditional" reader like me, but no big deal. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:05, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- That bit of wording's mine, so it's only fair I reply. English plural#Discretionary plural says that A number of words like army, company, ... may refer either to a single entity or the members of the set that compose it. Thus, as H. W. Fowler describes, in British English they are "treated as singular or plural at discretion" As I see it, SAFC the "single entity" was founded, but the members of that entity combine to appoint their manager. Struway2 (talk) 17:53, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- And I guess it's only fair to ask why Stat Cat is a WP:RS?
- The nominator Sunderland06 is having computer trouble at the moment and has asked me to keep an eye on the FLC and answer any outstanding questions, so I'll do my best. Having little interest in Sunderland AFC, I'm not well acquainted with StatCat, but it contains match results and team sheets for all competitions going back to the club's foundation, and appears at least as reliable as any other relevant source, including the club official site. I happened to check one of the caretaker managers, George Hardwick. Sunderland AFC official site has him "manager for one season" while StatCat has him appointed in November 1968 (three months into the season) with his first game in charge on Saturday 14 November. The Times (via The Times Digital Archive, most UK residents can access via their local library) confirms his appointment in their edition of Monday 16 November. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 22:22, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "Sunderland Association Football Club was founded in 1879. After turning professional in 1886, the club appointed Tom Watson as their first manager..." discretionary plural old chestnut warning. Just starts off badly for me, "...was founded... " vs. "their manager..." - I'd be sorely tempted to say the club "were" founded, although that upsets some of our US readers and the old grammar-warrior. Right now it feels clunky.
- Otherwise, it looks A1. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:35, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by User:The Rambling Man 06:51, 10 July 2008 [8].
Giving this a second run, since most of the reviews presented previously were attended or discussed this should be closer to the goal now than when it was nominated. Like last time I will keep this page in my watchlist and will work with the comments presented when active, cheers. - Caribbean~H.Q. 03:43, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Just remove the bold from "Puerto Rico currently has the second-most active players" because it is not very similar to the article's title. Gary King (talk) 05:31, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Then what would you suggest for the bold part of the lead?... because it does need to have one. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 12:13, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- No it doesn't. Bold in the lead is not mandatory - see WP:LEAD#BOLD. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:15, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Conceded. My fault. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 12:17, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. I actually considered doing this when rewritting the lead, but decided against so because it seemed unusual. - Caribbean~H.Q. 16:15, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Conceded. My fault. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 12:17, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- No it doesn't. Bold in the lead is not mandatory - see WP:LEAD#BOLD. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:15, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Then what would you suggest for the bold part of the lead?... because it does need to have one. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 12:13, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support This looks good now. Gary King (talk) 17:28, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
As per concerns from the previous FLC, a copyedit is still needed. I volunteer to undertake it, but it may take me a day or two. I will make some fixes and get back to things. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 16:30, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- That would be very welcomed, I can deal with specific concerns but copyedits aren't really my forte. - Caribbean~H.Q. 18:27, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Sorry it has taken me so long to get to this; the holiday became very busy very unexpectedly. I will try to get this done by Friday. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 17:36, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- No problem, I did some link cleanup yesterday, there had been some page-moves since it was created, right now there shouldn't be any redirect being linked. - Caribbean~H.Q. 00:45, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The list was promoted by User:The Rambling Man 06:51, 10 July 2008 [9].
This is the 5th Green Bay Packers-related list I bring before the community. User:Milk's Favorite Cookie and I, in conjunction with the Tzatziki Squad, would appreciate any comments or suggestions to help improve a list we feel already meets the featured criteria. Thank you for your time. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 01:07, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
- Publishers don't need to be italicized if they aren't publications.
- "[b] [18]" – has a space but – "[d][21]" – does not. I suggest going the route of having no space.
- Other than that, this list looks good. Great job!
Gary King (talk) 01:33, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I fixed the second one, but could you explain the first. I assume you are talking about the text that goes into the "work=" parameter in {{Cite web}}. If this is what you are talking about, how can I change it from not being italicized? « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 01:45, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- (ec)Fixed. « Milk's Favorite Cøøkie 01:48, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Change "work" to "publisher". Gary King (talk) 01:46, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks MFC, and thanks for reviewing Gary. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 01:59, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I fixed the second one, but could you explain the first. I assume you are talking about the text that goes into the "work=" parameter in {{Cite web}}. If this is what you are talking about, how can I change it from not being italicized? « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 01:45, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support This looks good now. Gary King (talk) 17:27, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments
- Get rid of the period in the caption of the lead image.
- Fixed. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 09:09, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- WP:MOS#Images recommends lead images of at least 300px.
- Fixed. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 09:09, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Lambeau's caption should have a period.
- Fixed. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 09:09, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "second most regular season (630) and overall victories (654) " this is going to need to be updated on a game-by-game basis which would make the list a little bit unstable.
- Fixed. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 09:09, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Can we widen the cols - the name col and the position col just wrap over occasionally for me and you should have plenty of space to avoid that.
- Fixed, hopefully. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 09:09, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- [5] has Pro Football Hall of Fame in italics as source, [6] has profootballhof in italics while [7] etc has ProFootballHoF.com not in italics. All are referring to the same source.
- Fixed. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 09:09, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Is there an NFL list category you could add this to?
- None that I am aware of. To the best of my knowledge this is the first list of its kind. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 09:09, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Get rid of the period in the caption of the lead image.
The Rambling Man (talk) 13:30, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you for the review TRM. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 09:09, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments
George Calhoun also founded the franchise according to your source. Should be mentioned.- Mentioned. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 23:26, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
eighteen NFL divisional titles and 17 individuals inducted - Be consistent and use either digits or letters.- Fixed, I made it so it complies to WP:NUMBERS. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 23:26, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Curly Lambeau is linked twice in the lead.- Fixed. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 23:26, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Usually, numbers are centered and words are left-aligned in tables.
- Is this a must or an MoS compliance issue, because personally I like when a whole table conforms to one alignment, unless there is a direct reason for changing it? « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 23:26, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I can't find anything at MoS, it's just that centered text looks weird to me. If no one else notices this, then it's fine.--Crzycheetah 00:42, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Is this a must or an MoS compliance issue, because personally I like when a whole table conforms to one alignment, unless there is a direct reason for changing it? « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 23:26, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Go through the names and fix disamg. links/redirect.
- Fixed. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 23:26, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Taylor, Adderly, and Wood still remain.--Crzycheetah 00:42, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Sorry, fixed. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 00:58, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Taylor, Adderly, and Wood still remain.--Crzycheetah 00:42, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Fixed. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 23:26, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think you can add two more pictures.- I have added Image:JanStenerud.jpg, but if the other picture you are talking about is Image:Reggie white packers.jpg, well that photo is not free, so it cant be used. If there is another photo that I am missing, please let me know. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 23:26, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I was actually thinking of Don Hutson, but I see that his picture is fair-use, as well.--Crzycheetah 00:42, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I have added Image:JanStenerud.jpg, but if the other picture you are talking about is Image:Reggie white packers.jpg, well that photo is not free, so it cant be used. If there is another photo that I am missing, please let me know. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 23:26, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
--Crzycheetah 22:37, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you for the review Crzycheetah. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 23:26, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
- "The first two decades of the Hall of Fame's existence saw 17 separate Packers enshrined," I didn't expect them to be conjoined.
- Fixed. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 23:26, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "including the only inductee to not play for the Packers, Vince Lombardi." What does this mean, that in the first two decades, only one non-Packer was inducted?
- It means he never played for them, he was a coach. The next sentence explains that, but I have reworded it to make it a little clearer. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 23:26, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 08:12, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you for the review Matthew. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 23:26, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Welcome. I've only got one more thing -- I'm pretty sure sacks is the wrong link. If not, what does it mean? Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 08:22, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Good catch, relinked to Quarterback sack. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 08:25, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
- In the {{cite web}}s, you need to properly distinguish between 'work' and 'publisher', they're not interchangeable depending on what typeface you want them to appear in. For example, in your ref #1, you correctly have Packers.com as a work (the publisher would be Green Bay Packers). However in ref #2, you have NFL as a work, which it isn't; the work, for that item, would be NFL.com or NFL official site, and NFL is its publisher. ProFootballHof.com is a work whose publisher is Pro Football Hall of Fame; if you don't want it to appear in italics, change it to Pro Football Hall of Fame, the name of the publisher. Sorry if this comes across as petty, but for featured content it needs doing right.
- Fixed, all consistently "publisher=". « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 00:16, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Super Bowl and NFL Championships only need wikilinking once each in the lead.
- Fixed. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 22:58, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Bearing in mind this is also supposed to make sense to non-Americans who don't follow American football, what does all-time mean in "the NFL's all-time offensive tackle Cal Hubbard"? Or could it be linked to something that would explain it to the ignorant foreigner? Likewise Most Valuable Player (the NFL's? the Super Bowl's?) and "1931 All-NFL player".
- I linked MVP to National Football League Most Valuable Player Award. The other two, including the MVP one, are referenced to the ref link found after each statement. The "1931 All-NFL player" was just a title that given out before All-Pro I believe, and I imagine "the NFL's all-time offensive tackle" is in reference to a team that the NFL chose as it's best players. Both statements are referenced, but I can't seem to find anything on the 'pedia to explain them. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 22:58, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Those footnotes which say "minor portion of their career" should read "of his career".
- Fixed. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 22:58, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I'd prefer the name column to be left-aligned; it's tidier and (IMO) more readable that way.
- Left-justified. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 22:58, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
cheers, Struway2 (talk) 14:36, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by User:The Rambling Man 07:23, 9 July 2008 [10].
And here's another one. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 09:04, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment This looks good, but unlink the years (MOS:UNLINKYEARS). Gary King (talk) 17:01, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support This is a really good list. Just add a period at the end of the image caption.--Dem393 (talk) 05:45, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- There's no need since it's still a fragment and doesn't require a full stop. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 22:20, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support. Professional work. - Darwinek (talk) 15:32, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
CommentsSupport Two things I don't like,The lead should not start with the word "since", but with the subject instead.The first paragraph is just a one long sentence.
--Crzycheetah 08:52, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Fixed, although I think the former wording was fine. A reader isn't going to think that "Since 1994" is the subject by any means, and it doesn't have to be the absolute first thing the reader sees. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 07:19, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for the changes. I know that my comments appeared as if the subject must be the first thing, but I didn't mean it that way. I just didn't like it when a whole new article began with the conjunction. Starting with the subject is the safest way to go, I think. --Crzycheetah 08:35, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Fair enough. Thanks for clarifying your intent. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 02:55, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support Good list, shouldn't be any problem having this featured. The DominatorTalkEdits 20:44, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support Well written, meets criteria. I have no other comments and can't even find a typo! Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 08:08, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments
- Being a bit picky, you may need to explain the (67th) etc in the table as the heading just says Year.
- Just two red links left, it'd be perfect if you could create, as a minimum, stubs for those guys?
- Nothing serious though. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:22, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Added a clarification for the Academy Award ceremonies. As for the directors, I can understand creating stubs for the submissions, as they're the central part of the list, but creating stubs for the directors is a little bit of a stretch :p Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 20:31, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The list was promoted by User:The Rambling Man 10:42, 7 July 2008 [11].
Now is the time! Cannibaloki 17:43, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Some of the references are missing an accessdate. Gary King (talk) 18:49, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Y Done. Cannibaloki 19:07, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support good work. --Be Black Hole Sun (talk) 12:52, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Sorry for my forgetfulness, thank you very much! Cannibaloki 23:29, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose
Some music videos do not have directors listed. Find an alternate source to MVDBase, its not reliable.Tenacious D Fan (talk) 13:45, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
-
- Yes. How is this meant to be comprehensive with a directors missing. Also, what order are the singles charts in? Not by alphabet anyway. Tenacious D Fan (talk) 19:07, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Ok, I'll put all so charts in alphabetical order, I will NOT change more. Cannibaloki 20:10, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Who directed "Choke"? Tenacious D Fan (talk) 13:35, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Y Done This video was directed by Raul Machado. Cannibaloki 14:43, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Still some problems. The album chart countrys are in a irregular order. Tenacious D Fan (talk) 10:57, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment It seems that someone this confused here! Tenacious D Fan, you changed the opinion of the user Be Black Hole Sun. Cannibaloki 14:28, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Woah. My mistake. Tenacious D Fan (talk) 23:19, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support Looks really good! My only complaint was a sloppy lead and accompanying cleanup tag, so I went ahead and copyedited myself. Voila! Drewcifer (talk) 08:18, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments Good start. A few suggestions:
The lead is a little too long. Try and condense it down by a paragraph or two.The first sentence reads very awkwardly. See Linkin Park discography for another current FLC that starts off much more smoothly.The chart columns are in the wrong order. They should be alphabetized by English name, not English abbreviation.I recommend dispersing the certification citations into the cells, rather then keeping them in the header where it's too vague.Sepultura is a Brazilian band, therefore international date-format should be used (DD Month YYYY).Drewcifer (talk) 04:28, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Y Done It was NOT me that changed the date format! link Cannibaloki 23:35, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
The sections in the page should be the same order as in the infobox. (Video albums and music videos are flipped)"the band stayed their friends Paulo Jr. and Jairo Guedz for record Morbid Visions" I don't understand thisAnd that is a very long sentence. Could it be broken into two?"With the new formation, Sepultura recorded, in 1987, Schizophrenia." Yoda speak. It should be "With the new formation, Sepultura recorded Schizophrenia in 1987."
- "The Force is with you..."
"Max Cavalera left the band, and subsequently formed a new one, Soulfly. The others announced that they would continue under the Sepultura name and were searching for a replacement." When? What "others"?"Derrick Green from Cleveland wound up filling the frontman spot,": "Wound up" is not encyclopedic toneWhy isn't there a Brazilian peak chart position for either albums or singles? If they didn't chart there, this should be stated in the lead section.
- Best leave this issue to one side.
- Why? Either some did chart, and the information is missing, therefore not ready for FL status, or they didn't chart, in which case it should be mentioned that they haven't had any releases chart in their home country. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 07:32, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
No need to list every album release in the lead. Some cherry picking here is allowed."Appeared on the charts for the Billboard 200 at #162." → "Appeared on the Billboard 200 charts at #162."
- Y Done Cannibaloki 01:45, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Entire lead section needs a good copy-edit.
Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 08:01, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Currently has a {{cleanup}} tag attatched which, since that qualifies for a Quick Fail at WP:GA, it certainly should at WP:FL Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 07:36, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The cleanup tag has been admirably dealt with by Drewcifer. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:08, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The list was promoted by User:The Rambling Man 10:42, 7 July 2008 [12].
- Nominator(s): Miguel.mateo (talk)
I'm nominating this article for featured article because I think it passes all of the FA criteria and the information it provides is not easy to find on catalogs or in the internet (it is staggered in several sites, incomplete and in different languages). I believe it is well written, well-sourced, properly formatted and the information it contains is complete (all Belgian Euro commemorative coins from 2002 until today).
As a background, the Euro is currently being used in 15 countries of the European Union. Each country can mint circulating coins and 2 Euro commemorative coins that are legal tender in the entire Euro zone. But as a legacy of the practice of minting silver and gold coins, very high value in precious metals like silver, gold, titanium, niobium, etc are still minted. These coins only have a legal tender in the issuing country. Collecting these coins and seeing how difficult is to find information about them was the main reason why a set of Wikipedians decided to start a Euro gold and silver commemorative coins set of articles, one for each of the countries. Belgium is the first one of these articles being completely finished, extensively sourced and extensively wiki-linked. Miguel.mateo (talk) 09:41, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- This seems more (to me) like a list, which goes to Featured lists. A quick note - references need formatting... all internet sources need publishers and accessdates (see WP:FN). {{cite web}} is optional but useful. giggy (:O) 11:28, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done, all references are live so I hope it is OK to put access date as today (based on WP:FN publisher is not mandatory, am I wrong?). About the list, I myself have a debate and I am looking for some quidance, I proposed FA because €2 commemorative coins (a very similar article) is an FA. Miguel.mateo (talk) 13:08, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
- According to Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/€2 commemorative coins, consensus was reached less than a year ago that these types of articles are indeed more appropriate for FAC than FLC. I would personally disagree, but the discussion has already been made fairly recently.
- I do not mind to put it as an FLC, so shall I drop this conversation here and create it there? Miguel.mateo (talk) 22:38, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- You are missing publishers for most of the references; please add them.
- Will do later today, I have mentioned them in the name so the information is there. But again, based on WP:FN publisher is not mandatory, am I wrong or publisher should be in all references of a FA or FL? Miguel.mateo (talk) 22:38, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Please take a look at WP:CITE/ES. Gary King (talk) 00:29, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done, all internet references have a publisher now, I was putting it in the title instead, thanks for the lesson ;) Miguel.mateo (talk) 06:45, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- What makes http://www.muntslag.nunaar.be/index.htm reliable, especially when it is used about 25 times in the article?
- This source is the web site of a Belgian euro collector and seller. He also happens to contribute very active in euro related forums which I can not source due to Wikipedia standards. All the information has been confirmed with catalogs which I have not referenced because they are in other languages. Also this particular site is one of the best indicators of market price for the coins, since they sell (whatever they have in stock). Miguel.mateo (talk) 22:38, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Gary King (talk) 18:24, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
This page is not listed at WP:FAC. If it is listd, will the nominators please re-sign their declaration with an updated timestamp. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:01, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I also recommend moving this page to FLC; there have been many discussions about moving €2 commemorative coins to a featured list, and no one has gotten around to it. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:09, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I do not mind to put it as an FLC, so shall I drop this conversation here and create it there? Miguel.mateo (talk) 22:38, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- You've submitted it to FAC; do you want it moved to FLC? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:52, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- since there seems to be some consensus about it, sure why not. Do I have to do anything? Miguel.mateo (talk) 00:08, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I'll do it now. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:13, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- since there seems to be some consensus about it, sure why not. Do I have to do anything? Miguel.mateo (talk) 00:08, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- You've submitted it to FAC; do you want it moved to FLC? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:52, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I do not mind to put it as an FLC, so shall I drop this conversation here and create it there? Miguel.mateo (talk) 22:38, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
- You need to put "Belgium" in the Lead section
- Done. Miguel.mateo (talk) 08:31, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "They are a legacy of old national practice of minting silver and gold commemorative coins." Fragmented
- Done. Miguel.mateo (talk) 08:31, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- What does "unlike normal issues" mean, and refer to? "euro coins minted and issued by member states of the eurozone since 2002 as legal tender" or "only in the country where the coin was issued"
- Done. Miguel.mateo (talk) 08:31, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Don't start a paragraph with "They"
- Done. Miguel.mateo (talk) 08:31, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "not really intended" too vague
- Done. Miguel.mateo (talk) 08:31, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "bullion value" can this be wikilinked to anything?
- Done. Miguel.mateo (talk) 04:28, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Wikilink Belgium
- Done. Miguel.mateo (talk) 08:31, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Lead needs expanding. When did Belgium start using the Euro? What's the minting company called?
- Done. Miguel.mateo (talk) 04:50, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Map is a bit big, considering Belgium is so small. We don't really need to see the Middle East and Eastern Bloc. Can a "zoomed-in" map be found?
- We are using the same standard maps that are recognized in almost all articles that refer to the Euro zone. A reader that goes to Belgium will see the same map ... is this really needed? Miguel.mateo (talk) 10:01, 26 June 2008 (UTC) Obviously it can be done, but I am more concerned on consistency.[reply]
- "minted — two" Per WP:DASH, mdashes should be used unspaced. An ndash can be used with spaces to achieve the same meaning. Be consistent with the rest of the article though
- Done, replaced it with a colon. Miguel.mateo (talk) 04:53, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I think I know what the numbers 1 and 2 mean in the box in the Summary section, but it's not explicit
- Done. Miguel.mateo (talk) 06:03, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Per WP:HEAD, "Market Value" should be "Market value"
- Done. Miguel.mateo (talk) 06:11, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "so this coin was the first Belgian euro commemorative coin ever released." Needs to be in a more encyclopaedic tone
- Done. Miguel.mateo (talk) 06:28, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- WP:MOS#Foreign terms says foreign terms not in common English usage should be itallicised.
- Can you give me a sample of what you are referring to? Like Bois du Cazier for example?
- That's exactly what I'm referring to. And stuff like "Noord-Zuidverbinding Jonction Nord-Midi". Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 17:51, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. Miguel.mateo (talk) 06:46, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- That's exactly what I'm referring to. And stuff like "Noord-Zuidverbinding Jonction Nord-Midi". Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 17:51, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Can you give me a sample of what you are referring to? Like Bois du Cazier for example?
- I don't know what "Ag 925 (Silver)" means in Alloy. Perhaps wikilink the header to Alloy, and/or use {{ref label}} and {{note label}} to describe what you mean
- Done. Miguel.mateo (talk) 10:10, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "Issued: 16.10.2002" violates MOS:NUM#Dates
- Done. Miguel.mateo (talk) 08:40, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Wikilink effigy
- Done. Miguel.mateo (talk) 08:40, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "'Belgium' in the three official languages" should be double-quote marks instead of single WP:PUNC
- Done. Miguel.mateo (talk) 08:40, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Link to Obverse and reverse
- Done. Miguel.mateo (talk) 08:40, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Wikipedia is not a sales catlogue, so the market value has to be removed
- We have a catch22 here, and I do need your guidance. Attached to collectors' coins there are three values: face value (the value written in the coin, which is meaningless, just used to identify the coin), the issue value (this is the value given by the mint or the bank when the coin is released, very difficult to obtain for some old coins) and the market value (the value that the current coin has today). This last value is maybe one of the most important attributes of a coin in the area of numismatics. We have discussed about this in the past, and we have agreed that this particular value is very important and should be kept. So in this case it not to be used as a sales catalogue, but as an attribute of the coin. Does that make sense? Do you have any other suggestion in this particular topic? Maybe explaining the terms would help... Miguel.mateo (talk) 10:01, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- You've made a convincing point here, but who is the "we" that decided this? Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 17:51, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Hi there, the last discussions about this topic are here and here. We are mainly three editors building the set of articles, one article per country (I was the one building Belgium, but you can see in Euro gold and silver commemorative coins the list of other articles being built). We have in very good shape Belgium, Austria, Ireland and Finland - the last three need to be polished to meet the FL criteria. We have also get a lot of information for France, Spain, Luxembourg, San Marino, Vatican City, Malta and Slovenia (as you see we still have countries to cover). The other two editors are Kevin hipwell and Melitikus.
- You've made a convincing point here, but who is the "we" that decided this? Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 17:51, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- We have a catch22 here, and I do need your guidance. Attached to collectors' coins there are three values: face value (the value written in the coin, which is meaningless, just used to identify the coin), the issue value (this is the value given by the mint or the bank when the coin is released, very difficult to obtain for some old coins) and the market value (the value that the current coin has today). This last value is maybe one of the most important attributes of a coin in the area of numismatics. We have discussed about this in the past, and we have agreed that this particular value is very important and should be kept. So in this case it not to be used as a sales catalogue, but as an attribute of the coin. Does that make sense? Do you have any other suggestion in this particular topic? Maybe explaining the terms would help... Miguel.mateo (talk) 10:01, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- What is "Proof"?
- Point taken. Maybe a section on top of all the tables explaining the terms and the values that can found on them (the same for Alloy) would help. What do you think? Miguel.mateo (talk) 10:01, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- That or wikilinks.
- Done. Miguel.mateo (talk) 10:10, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- That or wikilinks.
- Point taken. Maybe a section on top of all the tables explaining the terms and the values that can found on them (the same for Alloy) would help. What do you think? Miguel.mateo (talk) 10:01, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Exact date of release for the first coin, but a vague year-only for the rest
- This is difficult. Not all coins have an exact date, the ones that have them is because the sources give us the exact date. Do you have any suggestion to tackle this point? Miguel.mateo (talk) 10:01, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Not really. Wikipedia is about verifiability rather than truth. If other sources can be found, that's great, if not, oh well. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 17:51, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- This is difficult. Not all coins have an exact date, the ones that have them is because the sources give us the exact date. Do you have any suggestion to tackle this point? Miguel.mateo (talk) 10:01, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm concerned about the number of fair-use images used here. 52 unless I counted wrong. WP:NFC#Non-free image use in list articles for more
- As you might know, these are images of currency coins. The images 'might' be copyrighted (it really depends on the country), but as the copyright for currency images, they can be used as long as the design is either described or criticized in the article. I hope you understand that without the images this article makes not too much sense (as other list of coins out there). For this particular case, do we have a choice? Miguel.mateo (talk) 10:01, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Yeah. I see the €2 commemorative coins is Featured and has a large number of coin images. I've stricken this one. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 17:51, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- As you might know, these are images of currency coins. The images 'might' be copyrighted (it really depends on the country), but as the copyright for currency images, they can be used as long as the design is either described or criticized in the article. I hope you understand that without the images this article makes not too much sense (as other list of coins out there). For this particular case, do we have a choice? Miguel.mateo (talk) 10:01, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
So it's an oppose at the moment. Too many Wiki-guidelines that need to be followed. Additionally, the descriptions for each coin are in need of a good copy edit. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 05:55, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I hope I can make you change your opinion, since I do have a lot of work to do;) I am very thankful for your review and I will be replying to each of the points separately, one by one, little by little. Thanks, Miguel.mateo (talk) 07:30, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- OK, well feel free to ping me on my talk page. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 07:51, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment
- Why the green and red? What do they add to the article?
- Absolutely nothing is added to the article, just a representation of when that particular coin was minted or not. We were following the same standards as the table in €2 commemorative coins. It definitely looks good. Maybe what we are missing is an explanation of the numbers and the colors? Miguel.mateo (talk) 10:01, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- An explanation of the numbers, but I really don't see the need for the colours. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 17:51, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- How about now? Miguel.mateo (talk) 06:03, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I still feel they do nothing but art-sy up the article. And it would be a nightmare for someone reading a black-and-white printout of the page. BTW a dash (doesn't matter if it's n or mdash), should be used in the "empty" cells, otherwise it looks like it has information missing.
- Done (the dashes for the empty cells) Miguel.mateo (talk) 08:34, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- For the colors I will comment with the other editors, it should respect their decision too. I tried printing in B/W and it looks perfect (like no colors). I also tried removing the colors, and IMHO I did not like it. But will revert as soon as I hear consensus from the others. Miguel.mateo (talk) 08:34, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I still feel they do nothing but art-sy up the article. And it would be a nightmare for someone reading a black-and-white printout of the page. BTW a dash (doesn't matter if it's n or mdash), should be used in the "empty" cells, otherwise it looks like it has information missing.
- How about now? Miguel.mateo (talk) 06:03, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- An explanation of the numbers, but I really don't see the need for the colours. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 17:51, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Absolutely nothing is added to the article, just a representation of when that particular coin was minted or not. We were following the same standards as the table in €2 commemorative coins. It definitely looks good. Maybe what we are missing is an explanation of the numbers and the colors? Miguel.mateo (talk) 10:01, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Don't over wikilink terms such as Obverse and reverse and effigy. Only use them on the first entry.
- Done, only wikilinked the first entry of every subsection (there are articles having wikilinks to sections in this article, that is why). Miguel.mateo (talk) 08:34, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 07:31, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – The list looks great, from a quick look at it, but Devil's in the details, as they say (the Purple Oyster of Doom, in my case). I have located this sentence in the last section: "The unusual aspect of this coin being that the bird itself is actually colored blue!" Exclamation marks are to be used nowhere but in quotations; please ensure that this is rectified (you might wish to rephrase if you consider the sentence less satisfying without the exclamation) and that there are no other breaches of encyclopaedic tone. Waltham, The Duke of 23:29, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done, thanks for the review. Miguel.mateo (talk) 06:46, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Don't thank me just yet. :-) Do you agree that the dates should be in the day month year format instead of the month day, year one mainly used in the United States? Waltham, The Duke of 08:03, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I thank you for your compliment and because you did take the time to read it, at the point you found the only exclamation in the whole article! :) About the dates, I read in MOS:NUM#Dates that as long as it is coherent in the whole article, there is no need to change it. I have using month day, year all of my life. Miguel.mateo (talk) 08:40, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, but it also says right afterwards that an article with a strong national tie to a country should use the format commonly used by that country. Anyway, I've left the date in the intro intact for the moment. I hope I have not been too drastic with the rest of it; I really thought the language was in great need of a good copy-edit. More improvements could be made, of course, by someone with a better command of the language than myself. Waltham, The Duke of 08:53, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you very much indeed, I am sure that Matthewedwards will like it more the way it is now. Miguel.mateo (talk) 08:58, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Hmmm? Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 20:05, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I was addressing all the points you mentioned in the leading section, after I added all the info Waltham did a great copy-edit, that is what I refer too. I am sure you would not like what the leading section was before his changes :) Miguel.mateo (talk) 21:50, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Oh. I haven't checked the diffs to be honest. I agree with his date formatting concern though. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 07:31, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done, all dates have been changed. Miguel.mateo (talk) 07:04, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Oh. I haven't checked the diffs to be honest. I agree with his date formatting concern though. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 07:31, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I was addressing all the points you mentioned in the leading section, after I added all the info Waltham did a great copy-edit, that is what I refer too. I am sure you would not like what the leading section was before his changes :) Miguel.mateo (talk) 21:50, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Hmmm? Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 20:05, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you very much indeed, I am sure that Matthewedwards will like it more the way it is now. Miguel.mateo (talk) 08:58, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments
- "...coins in average ..." - on average?
- Done. Miguel.mateo (talk) 00:39, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "twenty-seven" - MOS suggests 27.
- Done. Miguel.mateo (talk) 00:39, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Probably worth noting in the lead the usual symbol for a euro since you use it in the second section without specific linking to euro.
- This one I do not understand, euro is linked in the first paragraph of the lead section, do you mean that it should show the symbol as well?
- Yes, I'm saying that people not familiar with the symbol may not understand that it's the same thing, so I'd link it in the lead. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:28, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. Miguel.mateo (talk) 14:04, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, I'm saying that people not familiar with the symbol may not understand that it's the same thing, so I'd link it in the lead. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:28, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- This one I do not understand, euro is linked in the first paragraph of the lead section, do you mean that it should show the symbol as well?
- legal-tender or legal tender. Be consistent.
- Done. Miguel.mateo (talk) 00:39, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Remove spaces between references and text.
- Done. Miguel.mateo (talk) 00:39, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Why two market values 10 cents apart? There must be a better way of showing the typical variations in value? And did I miss the bit where you said when the market value was established because presumably the market value fluctuates...?
- Done. We (the editors of this set of articles) have discussed this topic extensively. The decision was to give one or two references as long as they are trusted. Then the date in the reference will show how recent this market value is. These coins are fairly new, and their market prices had varied little, some of them as soon as they were sold out in the mint shops changed their price but that is all. I have changed a couple of prices not to show such a small difference. Miguel.mateo (talk) 00:39, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "Noord-Zuidverbinding Jonction Nord-Midi” (North-South connection, interjection Nord-Midi)" - no comma on the coin..
- Done. Miguel.mateo (talk) 00:39, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- If Nord-Midi is one of the most famous intersections in Belgium why doesn't it have an article?
- Done. Althought I can not answer your question (it was my opinion that it should), I have changed the texts to avoid it. Miguel.mateo (talk) 00:39, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- You should consider the {{convert}} template for us imperial measurement fans, for both diameter and mass.
- Done. Thanks for the trick, I have been looking for it for a while. Miguel.mateo (talk) 01:05, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Why isn't Tintin linked on its first use?
- It is, in the topic name, regardless I have wikilinked in the text as well so it is easier to be found, hence Done. Miguel.mateo (talk) 00:39, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "As a result, Europa has been used frequently as a symbol of Europe. Statues of her and the bull, are placed outside several European Union institutions, the €2 Greek euro coin also pictures them. Europa's name appeared on postage stamps commemorating the Council of Europe, which were first issued in 1956." need citation.
- Done. Miguel.mateo (talk) 00:39, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Link, expand or explain GDP which you use only once.
- Done. Miguel.mateo (talk) 00:39, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Shouldn't low countries be Low Countries? And it could be linked.
- Done. Miguel.mateo (talk) 00:39, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "The stadium hosted 70,000 at the time." 70,000 what?
- Done. Miguel.mateo (talk) 00:39, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- " "Belgium" in the three official languages is displayed ..." does this really need to be repeated for every single coin?
- For this I do need advice, it is the description of the coin and can (but should not) be omitted. I do recognize that reading the article from the beginning it sounds repetitive, but there are links in several articles in Wikipedia to sections in this article, referencing one particular coin. People that follow these links may be interested in seeing the details of just that specific coin. The same applies to those that search for coin details and get forwarded to this article by the search engine. IMHO, I do not think that people normally will read the article from the beginning to the end, but instead they will look at what they are interested into, and read that portion. What do you think?
- Yeah, it's not a deal breaker for me - I did read the whole article from beginning to end and thought you could just have a note in the lead or just before the table saying that all coins show Belgium in the three official languages. But I'm not fussed either way. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:28, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- For this I do need advice, it is the description of the coin and can (but should not) be omitted. I do recognize that reading the article from the beginning it sounds repetitive, but there are links in several articles in Wikipedia to sections in this article, referencing one particular coin. People that follow these links may be interested in seeing the details of just that specific coin. The same applies to those that search for coin details and get forwarded to this article by the search engine. IMHO, I do not think that people normally will read the article from the beginning to the end, but instead they will look at what they are interested into, and read that portion. What do you think?
- "1547 - 1606." should use en-dash to separate years.
- Done. Miguel.mateo (talk) 00:39, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Formatting issues with [[Bois du Cazier]] at Marcinelle.
- Done. Miguel.mateo (talk) 00:39, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "'ergé " red links. Why?
- Done. Miguel.mateo (talk) 00:39, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Is the plural of euro euro or euros? Seem to be interchangeable in this list.
- Please see Linguistic issues concerning the euro, both are accepted. Miguel.mateo (talk) 00:39, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "...coins in average ..." - on average?
- These need to be resolved quickly. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:10, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Improved greatly since the FLC began. Could also make for an interesting WP:FT in the future. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 07:19, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you Matthew, bringing all the articles to FL standard is our current goal, definitely the Behag goal is to reach FT. Miguel.mateo (talk) 07:59, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments
- There seem to be a few small inconsistencys, the coin with topic "Justus Lipsius" the gold and silver coins have one description, this don't seem to have been done for topic "Maurice Maeterlinck" instead it has 2 descriptions with the second stating "This coin design is similar to the 10 euro Maurice Maeterlinck coin" I don't see why there is a need for 2 descriptions and then not give 2 descriptions, this is repeated for the topic "Olympic Games 2008" this time the gold coin has a bit more info (although not really a description), Finally the topic "Olympic Games 2008" & "2008 Olympic Games" should they not both be either or.Kevin hipwell (talk) 11:41, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. Kevin, good catch! Miguel.mateo (talk) 14:15, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- There seem to be a few small inconsistencys, the coin with topic "Justus Lipsius" the gold and silver coins have one description, this don't seem to have been done for topic "Maurice Maeterlinck" instead it has 2 descriptions with the second stating "This coin design is similar to the 10 euro Maurice Maeterlinck coin" I don't see why there is a need for 2 descriptions and then not give 2 descriptions, this is repeated for the topic "Olympic Games 2008" this time the gold coin has a bit more info (although not really a description), Finally the topic "Olympic Games 2008" & "2008 Olympic Games" should they not both be either or.Kevin hipwell (talk) 11:41, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Look, it's pretty good, but was overlinked. Still is. Autoformatting of dates is no longer encouraged, and here, the high-value links need to breathe. Please see WP:MOSLINK and WP:CONTEXT on this issue, plus the trivial linking of the names of well-known countries and cities. Why is "proof linked 100,000 times? Just once is enough. TONY (talk) 08:03, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I agree that overlinking is the case for this article, was gonna mention that yesterday because of the "euro coins minted" double link on the first sentence, also why is Alloy linked more than once?. TONY I don't see in the WP:MOSLINK or WP:CONTEXT that "autoformatting of dates is no longer encouraged" can you please point out to me where this is stated.Kevin hipwell (talk) 10:02, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you all for the so many contributions: so many edits in such a small time frame for me to digest! As I explained before, there are wikilinks in several other articles pointing to sections in the article (links to "...#2006 coinage" for example), this is the main reason why on purpose I over wikilinked the same terms. As of now, a reader that wants to read about the coin by following the previous sample link for a coin of 2006 will not see the links to "proof" for example. This was my only concern, but if people fill different is OK with me.
- I agree that overlinking is the case for this article, was gonna mention that yesterday because of the "euro coins minted" double link on the first sentence, also why is Alloy linked more than once?. TONY I don't see in the WP:MOSLINK or WP:CONTEXT that "autoformatting of dates is no longer encouraged" can you please point out to me where this is stated.Kevin hipwell (talk) 10:02, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Satisfied now! TONY (talk) 09:59, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support The article has met all criteria. -Kevin hipwell (talk) 10:53, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by User:The Rambling Man 07:11, 8 July 2008 [13].
Another tallest buildings list, modeled after FLs such as List of tallest buildings in Denver and List of tallest buildings in Philadelphia. I have been working in collaboration with User:SRX to bring this list up to FL standards, and we think it is now there. I believe it to meet all FL criteria, in that it is comprehensive, stable, well-referenced, well-organized, useful, and complete. As always, any concerns brought up here will be addressed. Thanks, Rai•me 17:42, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support This looks good. Gary King (talk) 19:47, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment At the end of paragraph 2, you have 2 "with"'s. Also remove the comma in note b.--Dem393 (talk) 20:52, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Fixed--SRX--LatinoHeat 22:06, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- In addition, please remove the comma in the first sentence of note c. --Dem393 (talk) 23:18, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Fixed--SRX--LatinoHeat 00:39, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support--Dem393 (talk) 14:18, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Fixed--SRX--LatinoHeat 00:39, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- In addition, please remove the comma in the first sentence of note c. --Dem393 (talk) 23:18, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Fixed--SRX--LatinoHeat 22:06, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support VerruckteDan (talk) 14:47, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support - another great list. Cheers. Trance addict - Armin van Buuren - Oceanlab 05:31, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
- I don't understand what "tallest building between Philadelphia and Charlotte." means? Is it as in "on the map"?
- Entries 10 and 11 are the same height yet ranked differently
Otherwise another great list. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 07:43, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes on the map, and i fixed those entries.--SRX--LatinoHeat 13:46, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- It reads awkwardly. Try to add something so that it is made clearer. Otherwise, nice work. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 08:03, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes on the map, and i fixed those entries.--SRX--LatinoHeat 13:46, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- By the way, if you want me to do map the lead photo to identify the buildings, drop me a line on my talk page to identify each one. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 08:04, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by User:The Rambling Man 07:11, 8 July 2008 [14].
I had intended to nominate this one more than a week ago, but then completely forgot about it. I'm going away on the 28th, so Maxim will address all concerns after that date. -- Scorpion0422 16:24, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
- "pools - divisions I, II and III - that" should use em dashes per WP:DASH
- "the 'Top Division', from" → "the "Top Division", from"
Gary King (talk) 17:38, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done and done, thanks for taking a look. -- Scorpion0422 19:08, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
- Does "Top Division" need any quote marks?
- It's an unofficial name yet commonly used name, so it need the quotation marks. --Maxim.
- space between period and Ref 1
- Done. --Maxim.
- "voting 7-1", "leading 4-2" Ndash
- Done. --Maxim.
- Gold, silver and bronze images are, IMHO, unnecessary clutter. What do they add that the words "gold", "silver" and "bronze" and the coloured cells don't?
- They add instant visual identification. I don't see it as clutter, and I tried removing the gold/silver/bronze and coloured stuff and looked awkward, and monotonous with the other cells. --Maxim.
- Then be consistent throughout the article and add them to the Medal table Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 07:27, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. --Maxim
- Then be consistent throughout the article and add them to the Medal table Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 07:27, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- They add instant visual identification. I don't see it as clutter, and I tried removing the gold/silver/bronze and coloured stuff and looked awkward, and monotonous with the other cells. --Maxim.
Nice otherwise. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 06:25, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- References 6 and 7 should be formatted as footnotes so the statements can be referenced correctly. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 07:38, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Can you please rephrase that? I have no clue of what you want to be done. Maxim(talk) 16:41, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- In the three spots where you currently have ref 6 placed, you would put
then in the references or a Footnotes section, you would put{{ref label|CanadaSoviet|α|α}}
This will put the statement in a footnote, and the references will appear correctly like[6]. I've actually done this one, so you need to do the same for reference 7. Put{{note label|CanadaSoviet|α|α}}
During the final game of the tournament, Canada and the Soviet Union became engaged in a bench-clearing brawl while Canada was leading 4–2. Consequentially, the game was cancelled and both teams were disqualified. While the Soviets were out of medal contention, Canada was playing for the gold medal and was guaranteed at least a bronze.<ref>{{Cite web|url=http://www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/backgrounder-world-juniors.html |title=Backgrounder–2008 World Junior Hockey Championship|publisher=[[Canadian Broadcasting Corporation|CBC Sports]]|accessdate=2008-06-11|author=Doug Harrison}}</ref><ref>{{cite news | title = Team Canada > National Junior Team > History | publisher = [[Hockey Canada]]| url = http://www.hockeycanada.ca/3/5/6/7/index1.shtml |accessdate=2008-06-12}}</ref>
where ref 7 is currently placed, and then in a footnotes section, put{{ref label|Host|β|β}}
This can then be referenced as usual. The Greek letters can be changed to Latin letters, just don't make them numbers because it'll get confused with real references. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 18:21, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]{{note label|Host|α|α}}
Canada will host the tournament every 3 or 4 years. In 1990 Canada decided to switch years with Finland.- Hopefully Fixed. Maxim(talk) 18:57, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Should the title be Under-20 per WP:DASH?
- " It is traditionally held in late December, ending in the beginning of January. " - "...held from late December to the beginning of January." may sound better?
- Done.
- You have citations in the lead. But nothing for the first paragraph at all.
- I added a reference.
- I think we're currently not linking individual years - can you check that at WP:DATE?
- "bench clearing" needs a hyphen but is a bit jargony all the same.
- I reworded that part
- Shouldn't Canada and Soviet Union link to their hockey teams?
- "two handed" - hyphenation?
- Done.
- Fin, Cze and Swe aren't linked. Be consistent.
- I removed the wikilinks above, so it is more consistant.
- Can you move [3] somewhere nice per WP:CITE?
- Done.
- "three to four years." 3 or 4?
- I actually decided to remove the sentence.
- "a total of 11" - a total of is redundant.
- Done.
- Can both tables have the same col widths?
- Okay.
- When sorting by country, say, Canada goes (1), (10), (11), ..., (2), (3)... etc. I'd expect to see (1), (2), (3).. etc
- It has been fixed.
- TSN.ca vs (linked) TSN.
- Same point with IIHF.com.
- I have made everything consistant.
- Why are
title
's in quotations?- Where?
The Rambling Man (talk) 18:00, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for taking a look. -- Scorpion0422 19:06, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- No, please move the title so there's a hyphen: "Under-20 ...".
- Fixed.
- Great pic, but I don't get the info-page justification: if this copyrighted image "has been released by a company or organization to promote ...", why does it have to be "of low resolution", etc? Something's fishy here. Where's the proof of release?
- Can you please rephrase this? I don't understand what you mean.
- I'm second guessing Tony's comment here but I suspect in a roundabout kind of a way he's querying the fair use rationale of the image. The template says it's an image "...that has been released by a company or organization to promote their work or product in the media, such as advertising material or a promotional photo in a press kit..." but the source doesn't point to Team Canada's website, it goes to a Canadian TV channel where the image has "Photo: SAMUEL KUBANI/AFP/Getty Images" underneath. I'm guessing the use of this kind of image would require permission through OTRS and fair use wouldn't cut it. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:17, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- OTRS would make it a "free" image; instead, this image is being claimed as fair use. I think Scorpion picked a misleading template, which I fixed. Hope it's better now. Maxim(talk) 16:33, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm second guessing Tony's comment here but I suspect in a roundabout kind of a way he's querying the fair use rationale of the image. The template says it's an image "...that has been released by a company or organization to promote their work or product in the media, such as advertising material or a promotional photo in a press kit..." but the source doesn't point to Team Canada's website, it goes to a Canadian TV channel where the image has "Photo: SAMUEL KUBANI/AFP/Getty Images" underneath. I'm guessing the use of this kind of image would require permission through OTRS and fair use wouldn't cut it. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:17, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Can you please rephrase this? I don't understand what you mean.
- Don't link individual years: MOS breach.
- Fixed.
- "Soviet Union/Russia and Canada"—no links in the main text, please. See WP:CONTEXT.
- Fixed.
- Why not spell out "TBD" instead of linking it first time? I'd de-blue the second and third columns in "Future tournaments".
- I left Ottawa in as a link, it hasn't appeared before. All others fixed.
TONY (talk) 08:11, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 06:26, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The list was promoted by User:The Rambling Man 06:54, 7 July 2008 [15].
Another tallest buildings list, modeled after FLs such as List of tallest buildings in Atlanta and List of tallest buildings in Minneapolis. I have been working in collaboration with Alaskan assassin and Hydrogen Iodide to bring this list up to FL standards, and I think it is now there. I believe it to meet all FL criteria, in that it is comprehensive, stable, well-referenced, well-organized, useful, and complete. As always, any concerns brought up here will be addressed. Thanks, Rai•me 02:14, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support This looks good to me. Gary King (talk) 02:32, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment the fourth column in the Timeline of tallest buildings section reverses feet and meters.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 07:14, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Fixed. Cheers, Rai•me 14:37, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment
- In the lead, link to the appropriate article in "caisson"
- Done.
- "Although no Columbus skyscrapers rank among..." should be changed to "Although no Columbus skyscraper ranks among..." or "Although none of the Columbus skyscrapers ranks among..."
- Changed to the former.
- In the "Tallest proposed" section, the asterisk note and the note under the "Notes" column are both very redundant. Take out one of them, preferable the one that's under the "Notes" column.
- I agree, I removed the one in the "Notes" column.
- Also in the "Tallest proposed" section, why do you use plural nouns when there's only one building in the list? Try this (or another grammatically acceptable variation): "This lists the skyscraper that is proposed for construction in Columbus and is planned to rise at least 250 feet (76 m) in height, but is not yet completed structures. A floor count of 20 stories is used as the cutoff in place of a height of 250 feet (76 m) because the building's height has not yet been released by their developers."
- Done - changed to singular wording.
- In the lead, link to the appropriate article in "caisson"
- These are my only concerns.--Dem393 (talk) 21:21, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for the review and cheers, Rai•me 01:57, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- You're welcome! Good job on the list! Support--Dem393 (talk) 04:55, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for the review and cheers, Rai•me 01:57, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
- No need for "both" in "However, there are two major high-rise reconstructions taking place in the city; both Eight on the Square and the Grange Mutual Companies Building are being renovated", as you say there are two
- Done.
- "This structure rose 13 stories and 180 feet (55 m) in height." I prefer "This structure stands", but it's not a big deal
- Done.
- Wikilink high-rise on its first use
- It was wikilinked in the first sentence, but I removed the second instance of its wikilinking in the second paragraph of the lead.
- Sort order needs fixing on Name and Street address for "Timeline of tallest buildings"
- Done.
Another well written piece, otherwise. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 01:31, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you for the review and cheers, Rai•me 01:57, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Welcome Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 02:10, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "fifth-tallest", but "second tallest"?
- I have added the hyphen. Leitmanp (talk | contributions) 00:15, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "are being renovated"—rather time-specific. Who's gonna repair it when they're no longer being renovated? As of?
- I added "in mid-2008" in order to prevent repeating "as of ...". Leitmanp (talk | contributions) 00:15, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Slashes should be unspaced.
- I am sorry, but can you explain what you mean. Leitmanp (talk | contributions) 00:15, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "21="?
- What about it? The equal signs are there because they are equal in height so they share the same rank. Leitmanp (talk | contributions) 00:15, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Gratuitous table in "Tallest proposed". This type of table should be firmly discouraged. TONY (talk) 08:25, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I am sorry, but I do not know what you mean by this either. Are you referring to the list only having one entry or that it does not include the height? Leitmanp (talk | contributions) 00:15, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The list was promoted by User:The Rambling Man 06:54, 7 July 2008 [16].
So far I did the maximum we could with this list, but I think there details to improve. Cannibaloki 20:46, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments Can the lead be expanded to be more than just one paragraph? Gary King (talk) 21:25, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Y Done. Cannibaloki 23:12, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support Looks great, all of my concerns have been addressed. Drewcifer (talk) 04:21, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments Looks really good. A few suggestions. (PS, most of these suggestions apply to the Sepultura discography, so I'll avoid repeating myself at that FLC):
"US Indie." is a little slangish ("indie"). Howabout "Ind."?""—" denotes albums that were released but did not chart." is a little redundant. Can an album not be released and not chart?The "EPs" section should be "Extended plays",In the ep table, the chart doesn't need the double-header, since there's only one chart.The "Soundtracks" section worries me. Per MOS:DISCOG, we're only concerned with releases that feature original material. I have the suspicion that "Rational Gaze" and "Shed" have been featured on other albums. If that's true, you don't need to mention these soundtracks at all.MVDBase.com is not considered a reliable source. But the good thing is that music videos are usually considered to be self-referential (since they have credits), so you can just get rid of the citation and you're cool.Drewcifer (talk) 06:47, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]- Don't force the bolded title or the straight repetition of the title in the first sentence. I'd recommended getting right to the point and telling us who Meshuggah is.
- Take a look at Linkin Park discography, another current FLC that did a good job of making the first line more interesting. Basically my point is saying "This is a discography of Meshuggah" is unneccessary and poor writing. Drewcifer (talk) 15:10, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The chart columns are a little out-of-order. See MOS:DISCOG for suggestions.
- Y Done, But I not understand your first suggestion! Still not sure about the order of the chart columns. Cannibaloki 16:14, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- According to MOS:DISCOG, homecountry (Sweden) should go first, then every other country in alphabetical order. Or you have the option of Sweden, then an alphabetical listing of English-speaking countries, then every other country. Though I prefer the latter. Drewcifer (talk) 15:10, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Y Done. Cannibaloki 23:41, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments
Why do some music videos not have directors?Did any albums get gold/silver/bronze certifications anywhere? Tenacious D Fan (talk) 13:46, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- To my knowledge, no. Cannibaloki 16:14, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Y Done. Cannibaloki 22:06, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Album charts in wrong order.Tenacious D Fan (talk) 10:58, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Y Done. Cannibaloki 23:41, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
Drewcifer is right, there are two accepted options of ordering the peak chart positions. The first is home country, followed by everything else in alphabetical order, and the second is with the home country first, followed by English charts in alphabetical, then all other countries in alphabetical. I usually prefer the latter (and the way it now is in the list), but for this list I think that the US charts should be at the end, as for this band, the Finnish, French and Swiss charts are more relevant due to the proximity of those countries with Sweden compared to the US. It also looks odd with 3 US charts in the middle of the other 4.
- Y Done In this case, is a matter of sensitivity. Cannibaloki 14:52, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "full-lenght" → "full-length"
- "A collection of demos (from the Psykisk Testbild EP) and rare recordings was released" Should this be "were released"?
The order of sections should be the same order as the infobox.It appears no singles have ever been released. Is this correct?Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 07:53, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- So far, nothing in the singles format was released. Thanks for the tips! Cannibaloki 14:52, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The list was promoted by User:The Rambling Man 08:42, 6 July 2008 [17].
I have worked on this list for some time and I think it should be close to completion now. It has also gone through a comprehensive review recently and thanks to Cryptic C62, lots of feedback was received. Nergaal (talk) 07:38, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose (Now support): A solid list, but some issues.Headbomb {ταλκ – WP Physics: PotW} 20:28, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- So are your issues resolved? Nergaal (talk) 11:16, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes. I got no issues on seeing that list with an FL star. Minor detail, your footnotes are a,b,c,d,e,f,h,h,i. Headbomb {ταλκ – WP Physics: PotW} 00:07, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- So are your issues resolved? Nergaal (talk) 11:16, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
- Elements with stable isotopes
- What are these stables isotopes? Tin has 10, which are they? Headbomb {ταλκ – WP Physics: PotW}
- Listing these 10 isotopes in order of "commonness" would be a good idea. Using {{Nuclide}} here would keep things from getting stretched.
- done Nergaal (talk) 07:54, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- This is allready at Stable isotope#List of stable isotopes. Do you think it would help copying it here? Nergaal (talk) 19:38, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, but using {{Nuclide}}, as full name would take way too much space. Headbomb {ταλκ – WP Physics: PotW} 20:28, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done? Nergaal (talk) 07:43, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Elements without stable isotopes
- Table is not sortable Headbomb {ταλκ – WP Physics: PotW}
- It is extremely easy to switch, but then the sorting will ignore the a/d/h/min/s part. Anybody knows a way around this? Nergaal (talk) 19:38, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I fixed that.Headbomb {ταλκ – WP Physics: PotW} 20:28, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Half-life formatting is not consistent, nor is it WP:MOSNUM compliant. Headbomb {ταλκ – WP Physics: PotW}
- I am not sure what you mean. Could you be more specific? Nergaal (talk) 19:38, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I made some MOS compliant. This should give you a good enough start. Headbomb {ταλκ – WP Physics: PotW} 20:28, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- So besides the no-break-space-thing for the numbers-units, is there anything else? Nergaal (talk) 21:08, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Well don't use <math> for one. Headbomb {ταλκ – WP Physics: PotW} 21:17, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- done? Nergaal (talk) 21:29, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- A small legend for a, d, h, s, would be useful. Headbomb {ταλκ – WP Physics: PotW}
- Again, not sure what you mean. There is allready a notes section. Nergaal (talk) 19:38, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- My bad, I didn't see it. I changed m to min, as the symbol for minute is min, and wikilink the first instances. m stands for meter.Headbomb {ταλκ – WP Physics: PotW} 20:28, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Awful lots of red links in there
- done Nergaal (talk) 20:11, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- References
- Name formatting is confusing at first. Using Last, First, Last, First makes it very confusing if you don't know that. Try using A. Sonzogni, B. Dumé, P. de Marcillac, N. Coron, G. Dambier, J. LeBlanc (check if this isn't how he spells it), J.P. Molliac, or a variant. Headbomb {ταλκ – WP Physics: PotW}
- This is the usual formatting in academia. The reference is a {{cite journal}} one and I think this is how it is set to work. Nergaal (talk) 19:38, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- In some journals. I never liked this style, and since we have the freedom to choose, I say lets go with a non-confusing one. Headbomb {ταλκ – WP Physics: PotW} 20:28, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- done Nergaal (talk) 07:58, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- What's your refs for the tables themselves? Place ref tags next to table title or something.Headbomb {ταλκ – WP Physics: PotW}
- The reference is already in the intro (2nd and 3rd paragraph, check for [1]). Do I need to repeat the reference if I already show in the intro that it is the one I am using?Nergaal (talk) 19:38, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes. You can use the same source multiple times. (first time use <ref name=NAME> {{citation template}} </ref>, and the second time use <ref name=NAME/>.Headbomb {ταλκ – WP Physics: PotW} 20:28, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done Nergaal (talk) 21:14, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
- Remove the bold formatting if you are going to keep the link there, per WP:BOLDTITLE.
- done Nergaal (talk) 19:38, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "See Also" section goes before "References" per WP:LAYOUT.
- What about the notes section?Nergaal (talk) 19:38, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Something I should have mentioned. The correct order is "See also" → "Footnotes" → "References" (and → "External links"). Gary King (talk) 20:16, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- done Nergaal (talk) 21:16, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Something I should have mentioned. The correct order is "See also" → "Footnotes" → "References" (and → "External links"). Gary King (talk) 20:16, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "Institute of Physics Pubishing," → "Institute of Physics Publishing,"?
- :) done Nergaal (talk) 19:49, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- For {{cite news}}, the date should be entered as 2001-01-01 per the template's documentation.
- done Nergaal (talk) 19:49, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
- Footnote A is worded poorly, especially with the "See discussion here" part
- I agree but I am not sure how to rephrase it. Nergaal (talk) 20:17, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- DoneNergaal (talk) 22:31, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Opening sentence could do with work for me, by removing "This is a list of", and don't wikilink bold text. Both per WP:LS
- done? Nergaal (talk) 19:38, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "There are 80 elements of the first 82 in the periodic table that do have isotopes considered to be stable." → "Of the first 82 elements in the periodic table, 80 have stable isotopes" Or something. There's too many unnecessary words at the moment.
- done? Nergaal (talk) 19:38, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Third sentence is too long with too many "and"s
- done Nergaal (talk) 19:49, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Sentence begins with "Also"
- done Nergaal (talk) 19:49, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- MOS:NUM on digits and words for numbers below 10, and numbers which could be written using two words
- done Nergaal (talk) 20:00, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I think another paragraph is needed about the subject of the list, rather than (or as well as) two about the format of the list.
- Ha? What else is missing or not yet clear? Nergaal (talk) 20:12, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Contents of "Most common isotope" column aren't wikilinked, yet those in "Longest-lived isotope" are. Do the former not have articles?
- done Nergaal (talk) 20:11, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The colours in the images are a nightmare for colorblind people. WP:ACCESS. See http://colorfilter.wickline.org/?a=1;r=;l=0;j=1;u=en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_elements_by_stability_of_isotopes;t=m
- Is this actually a requirement for a FA? I wouldn't mind changing (even though only ~1% of readers might have problems) but do you have a suggestion for another ser of colors that would make sense? Nergaal (talk) 19:58, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- done Nergaal (talk) 21:49, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "half live of over 7000" I don't know much about this sort of stuff, so 7000 whats? Years? months? seconds?
- done Nergaal (talk) 19:49, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- WP:LAYOUT See also should be above the references
- done Nergaal (talk) 19:49, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment You have an active peer review, which isn't allowed. Anyway, here arts my comments.
- Never got this, how do I close/archive a PR? Nergaal (talk) 23:49, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done Nergaal (talk) 07:51, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Never got this, how do I close/archive a PR? Nergaal (talk) 23:49, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- In the lead sentence say "In this list, the chemical elements..." since elements aren't always classified this way.
- Explain what the numbers after the elements mean. For example, explain what the 1 is in hydrogen-1.
- done Nergaal (talk) 00:11, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Having colored charts and colored text violates one of our policies, but I don't know which one.--Dem393 (talk) 22:06, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Never heared this one. Say there is a policy, any suggestions for the legend? Nergaal (talk) 23:49, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- WP:ACCESS. Anything in colour should also be identified in another way (text-based) for those with images turned off, colourblind people, and the like. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 00:45, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- so you think I should use something like "(blue) stable elements." instead for the legend? Nergaal (talk) 08:05, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't really know what the best way to address this would be. If someone reads a printed copy, colored text might not be much good. Especially if used in a school where it's photocopied a bunch of times. Discuss it at WT:FLC, I think. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 09:12, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The legend that you just put up is fine. Anyone can still read the article without having to look at the picture anyway. Besides, the periodic table you made is just a different representation of the information from the tables.
I'm happy with this lost so I support--Dem393 (talk) 20:15, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- In the list of stable elements, footnote (b) states that the most common isotope may not be the most stable one. In addition to or instead of placing this footnote in the table header, I suggest placing it at all isotopes that are most common yet unstable. --Eddi (Talk) 08:56, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I went for a different approach. How is it now? Nergaal (talk) 07:53, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I think this is an improvement, yes. I would be happy, though, to see the relevant unstable isotopes listed in their order among the stable ones, to illustrate that abundancy does not necessarily imply stability. E.g. for calcium: 40
Ca
, 44
Ca
, 42
Ca
, [48
Ca
], 43
Ca
. Could this be useful? --Eddi (Talk) 10:50, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I think this is an improvement, yes. I would be happy, though, to see the relevant unstable isotopes listed in their order among the stable ones, to illustrate that abundancy does not necessarily imply stability. E.g. for calcium: 40
- But the article is not about the isotopes found on Earth, but about the ones that are stable. Nergaal (talk) 11:04, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- That's true, but when I read that some unstable isotopes are more abundant than some stable ones, I'm curious to see which ones those are. Perhaps it is not very interesting if the abundancy is low (like with calcium), but don't you think it could be interesting if the unstable isotopes were among, say, the top 1-2(-3) in abundancy? --Eddi (Talk) 22:21, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- How is the article/list now?Nergaal (talk) 14:12, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The table of elements with stable isotopes looks very nice, I think. Good work – hope the level of this fits with the rest. Please note that I have not studied the whole article in detail, and I have not considered the FL criteria. By the way, remember units (i.e. years) of the half-lives mentioned in footnotes. --Eddi (Talk) 23:38, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- That's true, but when I read that some unstable isotopes are more abundant than some stable ones, I'm curious to see which ones those are. Perhaps it is not very interesting if the abundancy is low (like with calcium), but don't you think it could be interesting if the unstable isotopes were among, say, the top 1-2(-3) in abundancy? --Eddi (Talk) 22:21, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "In this list, the chemical elements are listed in terms of the nuclear stability of their most stable isotopes." Wow - that's a bit of an unengaging and in-yer-face opening statement for me. Can it begin by saying what a stable isotope is or something? Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 07:36, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- What about now? Nergaal (talk) 17:06, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Yeah, that works. Support. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 08:53, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- What about now? Nergaal (talk) 17:06, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support—but can you space the equals signs on both sides, as per MOS? TONY (talk) 08:20, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The list was promoted by User:The Rambling Man 08:42, 6 July 2008 [18].
previous FLC (02:53, 5 March 2008)
2nd time's the charm? The last FLC failed mainly because I was unable to address comments made in a timely manner. The main sticking point being that the list of awards was not complete. So, in the interim, I've realized that a complete list of awards would be quite big, and therefore more appropriate in its own list: List of Woody Allen awards. So, now that that's taken care of, hopefully the filmography is up to snuff. As always, any comments and suggestions are appreciated. Thanks! Drewcifer (talk) 07:38, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Looks good, but shouldn't the table also include text along with graphics? So shouldn't the checkmarks have something in there along with it? Gary King (talk) 15:36, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Very good point! But what could I possibly put in there that wouldn't look silly? "Yes"? "Check"? Neither strike me as all that great. Drewcifer (talk) 16:22, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- http://colorfilter.wickline.org/ answers part of it (colorblind people shouldn't have a problem seeing them), but not for people with images turned off. I have no suggestion to fix it though. :( Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 18:07, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I switched the checks to the {{yes}} template. Let me know what you think. Drewcifer (talk) 00:58, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments
- WP:MOS#Images allows for a lead image to at least 300px - you can expand Woody if you like. DONE
- "...a three-time Academy Award-winning American film director, writer, actor,.." - could be confusing i.e. that he's won the Oscars for writer, actor etc... suggest a subtle reword. REWORDED
- "Allen has worked on many..." - just "He has... " is better since you currently have "Allen" in three consecutive sentences... FIXED
- "which he wrote and performed in" not keen. Get it, but not keen, ending with "performed in" just reads clumsily.
- "completely new, comic dialog" new and comic? emphasising that the original dialog wasn't comic perhaps? REWORDED SLIGHTLY
- Consider linking first $ to US $ just to be sure. DONE
- Image caption doesn't need a period as it's a fragment. DONE
- Again, several repetitions of "Allen" or "Allen's" when "he" or "his" would improve the flow a lot. FIXED
- Why no articles about the documentaries?
- I dunno, I guess because they weren't so popular. Drewcifer (talk) 08:13, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "Hotel Terminus: Klaus Barbie, His Life and Times" with no ticks and a footnote saying he was producer is a little anomalous for me. Does this imply he didn't "produce" anything else ever? I'm not convinced it should be in the list since your lead talks about the combination of three (actor, director, writer) and doesn't mention he produced anything at all.
- There's actually two films footnoted witht he producer thing: the hotel teminus, and what's up tiger lilly. I just didn't think that two films warranted an entirely seperate column. Drewcifer (talk) 08:13, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- And if it stays, should Producer just be producer in the footnote? DONE
- I've got a scientific background so in my mind the table of grosses should use a consistent number of decimal places.
- I think .0 would be a little unnecessary don't you? The only reaons there's some decimals is to differentiate which made more money when two films are so close in gross.
- " in which Allen has written, directed, or acted in," - last "in" is redundant. DONE
- "he had a minor role" - what's the definition of "minor" here?
- It's however Box Office Mojo defines "minor" I suppose. Reworded slightly to emphasize this. Drewcifer (talk) 01:05, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Everything you wanted to know... has a different title in each table. I would suggest consistency here. DONE
- Television table - two non-italicised, one italicised title. Why? FIXED
- "(listed above in Filmography)" - don't make that point here, make it in the Filmography section.
- I actually relocated it into the Lead, which seems to make the most sense. Cool? Drewcifer (talk) 17:09, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Interestingly (for me more than anyone else I guess) your Broadway link points to "Broadway theatre", not "theater". I guess it has no impact here but how odd that the US premier theatre article doesn't spell it with US English.
- I dunno, I presume it's just because Broadway takes itself so seriously. Drewcifer (talk) 17:09, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- As I mentioned some time ago, why aren't the venues of three of the four Broadway plays included? If they are notable plays then it should be possible to source this information.
The Rambling Man (talk) 16:45, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Basically because for three of the four listed, he was the writer. So he had nothing to do with the physical performance of the play (who, when, where, etc). Additionally, the difference of an actor requiring a venue specified is that the actor performs as the character for just one run of the player. Therefore it's possible to pin down to a venue. As a writer, he's still the writer for every time the play is performed no matter where it is and who is doing it. Drewcifer (talk) 08:13, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- This seems to be a moot point now. See below. Drewcifer (talk) 01:05, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Basically because for three of the four listed, he was the writer. So he had nothing to do with the physical performance of the play (who, when, where, etc). Additionally, the difference of an actor requiring a venue specified is that the actor performs as the character for just one run of the player. Therefore it's possible to pin down to a venue. As a writer, he's still the writer for every time the play is performed no matter where it is and who is doing it. Drewcifer (talk) 08:13, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments TRM's got most of it it looks like, so only a few from me.
- Sections are "Filmography", "Television" and "Theatre" Perhaps "Filmography" should be simply "Films". DONE
- AFI's 100 Years...100 Movies Is this a film? I thought these things were TV documentary type things
- Yea, pretty much one of those things. Though it was released as a "film" (straight-to-DVD kind of thing I believe).
- Further to TRM's producer comments, I'd like a producer column so we can see what he produced.
- Please see my comments above.
- As the -- now removed awards -- are related, a link should be provided in a See also section. Or you could have an awards section with {{main}}, and give a paragraph or two of prose detailing "major" awards.
Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 18:04, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Not so sure about mentioning "major awards" because it becomes a slippery slope: "major" is difficult to define. But the "See also" section was definitely needed. Drewcifer (talk) 08:13, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm still unconvinced as to whether theatre roles should be included as part of a filmography. For me, because they're not recorded onto film or tape, or available as a physical entity such as a VCR cassette, DVD, etc, they shouldn't. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 16:23, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Now that you mention it, I suppose you're right. Moved it to the main Woody Allen page. Drewcifer (talk) 01:05, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support. Everyone's comments appear resolved, everything checks out. Use of {{yes}} is good. Nice. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 06:55, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks a bunch for your help and your support. Drewcifer (talk) 10:04, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by User:The Rambling Man 08:42, 6 July 2008 [19].
Another NIN-related list I've whipped up recently. Though I've seen a few "list of X members" lists comes through these hollowed halls, I hope to raise the bar a little higher. As always, any comments and suggestions are welcome and appreciated. Thanks! Drewcifer (talk) 05:18, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
comment use en dashes for years per WP:DASH for example make 1994–2000 to 1994–2000 --Gman124 (talk) 05:23, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- They are en dashes already; converting them to unicode is not necessary. Gary King (talk) 05:25, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
- "though Reznor" → "although Reznor"
- "of Nin Inch Nails in-studio," → "of Nine Inch Nails in-studio,"
- I don't think "Nine Inch Nails live performances" needs to be in See Also when it's already linked in the lead.
Gary King (talk) 05:24, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments in 6 minutes! Impressive! Fixed the first two. And I'm not sure I agree with the last one (in related news I just did the same thing in List of Nine Inch Nails tours, at which FLC you said a similar thing. Just didn't want it to seem like I was doing it behind your back or anything.) I've found that those three articles are very closely related (sister-articles I suppose), and one link buried in the lead isn't sufficient enough to link them all together. For example while making this list, I wanted to refer back to the tours list once and a while. And I wanted to click my way there, rather than type it out. Numerous times I found myself unable to find the link in the lead, even though I had wrote it. I don't think it's that big of a deal, but I think it just adds a bit of much needed convenience to a series of closely-related articles. Phew, that was long-winded. Drewcifer (talk) 05:30, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Er, okay then :| I actually think the best place for the kind of thing you are describing is a footer template. Also, since I responded to quickly, perhaps you can review my recently submitted list? :) Gary King (talk) 05:31, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- A-hah! There's always a catch. No problem, I'll take a look. And yea, the footer template is good for that, but I think these 3 articles in particular are so inseparable that it's best to emphasize it a bit. Drewcifer (talk) 05:37, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Er, okay then :| I actually think the best place for the kind of thing you are describing is a footer template. Also, since I responded to quickly, perhaps you can review my recently submitted list? :) Gary King (talk) 05:31, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support Gary King (talk) 05:55, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- 37 minutes! You're awesome! Drewcifer (talk) 05:56, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
- Could you wikilink "Live: With Teeth" to the section on the recently promoted list (sorry, I can't remember it's name)
- Really? I mean, I'm not totally against it, but that would mean I'd have to link every tour (not just the With Teeth one). And they'd all lead back to the same exact article, just subsections of it. I'm not sure if that would really accomplish anything.
- You're probably right. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 07:49, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "In 1994 Robin Finck replaced Richard Patrick, the live band's original guitarist, for the Self-Destruct tour" Passive voice here. "Robin Finck replaced Richard Patrick, the live band's original guitarist, for the Self-Destruct tour in 1994". Perhaps. I'm not excellent with these myself.
- Fixed.
- "In 2008, it was announced that Finck would rejoin Nine Inch Nails for the Lights in the Sky tour." is passive, too
- Fixed.
- Where they've played more than one instrument, remove the parentheses from "Instrument(s):"
- I feel like it should be consistent throughout the article, not based on how many instruments they played. That said, it's not consistent, I just realized. Which do you think is more appropriate? Drewcifer (talk) 06:55, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Well as I said, I'd prefer to lose the parentheses so it's "Instrument:" for those who've played only one, and "Instruments:" for those who've played more than one. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 07:49, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I took out all the parentheses. But now that you mention it, technically speaking, some members played multiple version of the same instrument. What I mean by that is that playing "keyboard" for NIN doesn't mean you've got one dinky little keyboard. It means you've got an array of Keyboards and samplers and other crap all around you. The same applies for drums, and (to a lesser extent) bass and guitar. Maybe I'm just splitting hairs, but I think it's cool as it is personally. Drewcifer (talk) 07:54, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Very good and informative otherwise. I'm getting tired though, so I'll take a second look tomorrow. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 06:40, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Late (as is usual for me!) but here's a few more.
- I'd prefer the two galleries at the beginning of each section rather than the end, especially the current members. I don't think this violates WP:PIC#Photo gallery in any way, but it is just a personal preference.
- I don't think it violates any policies either, but I don't think this would be an improvement. The images are really just there as an added bonus, the stuff in the text is the bulk of the list. Putting the pictures before would, I believe, give them undue weight in relation to the text.
- The second gallery is formatted funny, as there are 4 pics on one row, and 1 pic on a second row. Can they all be put onto the same row?
Other than that, it's almost ready I think. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 07:32, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Yeah, it's just a stroke of luck that exactly five pictures are available. I'm working on getting more, which would beef things up a bit, but we'll see how that goes. As far as I know, it's not possible to squeeze 5 into a single row, so I don't see any solution. Drewcifer (talk) 10:08, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Whaddya know, it is actually possible. Now all 5 images are in the same row. Cool? Drewcifer (talk) 08:48, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Why not have each pic beside the band member itself? If the infobox creates problems while adding Reznor's pic, I think the members list can be removed from the infobox (since the whole article is about it anyway). indopug (talk) 19:15, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I avoided putting the images within the text because most of the images are vertically larger than the space allotted to each member by the amount of text. So the images would end up stacking poorly against each other. That, and I'm doing my best to find some more free-images of the others, so assuming I'm eventually successful in doing that, the vertical-space thing would be exacerbated even further. So I wanted to give the list room to grow, basically. Drewcifer (talk) 00:55, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment—Bit under-reference in the lead. Quite good otherwise. TONY (talk) 08:18, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I added a couple, but I think that's as good as it's gonna get. Mainly because the lead summarizes the list, and so is therefore somewhat listy itself. No one source covers the entire live-band's history, so I can't really source some parts of the lead without giving a huge amount of sources. Besides, the sources are in the list proper, so I don't want to repeat myself either. Drewcifer (talk) 08:44, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by User:The Rambling Man 10:11, 5 July 2008 [20].
This list was previously nominated by another user for FL-status on April 17, 2008, and was deemed to fail the criteria on May 2, 2008. I have worked on the list significantly, and I believe that the list is now FL-quality. Mastrchf (t/c) 17:41, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment' - I wouldn't call this a list. There seems to be quite a bit of prose in there. D.M.N. (talk) 17:46, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The Office (U.S. TV series) season 1 and The Office (U.S. TV series) season 3, both of which I created and are very similar to the nomination, are both FL. The majority of season lists, except in the case where there is an overwhelming amount of prose, are better for FL than GA/FA. Mastrchf (t/c) 17:49, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I would consider those myself FA's. D.M.N. (talk) 17:52, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Looks good, but a few dashes need to be changed to en dashes, like in "September 12, 2006-Region 1". Gary King (talk) 18:33, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Both of the dashes in the infobox have been changed. Were there any others that should've been changed? Mastrchf (t/c) 18:45, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I think that's it for now. Gary King (talk) 18:47, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments
- "...four DVDs in Region 1..." do you mean "four Region 1 DVDs"?
- Same for Region 2 - perhaps "released for Region 2..."?
- In infobox, any reason why Anamorphic is capitalised?
- Last para of the Production section is five choppy sentences - I think the flow can be considerably improved.
- Cast image caption doesn't need a period and it should be sized per WP:MOS#Images, so just
thumb
- ie not having its size forced. - Carrell image needs the
upright
parameter instead of being forced (per the MOS) and currently overlaps the episode synopsis section. You could move the image up a section if required. - sixty-seventh -> 67th.
- On that note, in general numbers above 10 are written numerically per WP:MOS.
- In the synopses, no real need to repeatedly wikilink the same writers/directors etc. The table isn't sortable so linking the first instance is probably enough.
- "The two are cold to each other throughout the day, until as a show of good faith.." - I think I'd move the comma to after the until...
- "...talk business. But later,..." - merge.
- "He takes suggestions from the suggestion box..." - maybe takes "ideas" so to avoid repetition?
- What makes ref [3] a WP:RS?
- Several refs (e.g. [8], [11], [12]) could have
date
andauthor
fields added - check the others. - Amazon is linked in the refs - why not New York Times, USA Today etc?
- Ref [28] looks a little malformed right now.
The Rambling Man (talk) 16:42, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Requests have been completed. Mastrchf (t/c) 18:02, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
- No need for the content of the See also section. All the links are in the Navbox
- I don't think it's necessary to use "National Broadcasting Company". NBC would do for me.
- You could explain what it is though, such as "national terrestrial television network
- "The second season was released in a set which contained four DVDs. The set was released in Region 1 on September 12, 2006.[3] It was also released in Region 2, on January 28, 2008." → "The second season was released in a four-disc DVD boxset on September 12, 2006 in Region 1,[3] and January 28, 2008 in Region 2."
- Some of the episode summaries need expanding. The first episode's is especially in dire need of help. Two sentences isn't really enough for a half hour show, and definitely not for a 40 minute show.
Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 17:24, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Requests have been completed. I expanded a few of the episode summaries, but in most cases I only have the main events, which I believe is sufficient. Mastrchf (t/c) 18:16, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support, though I think "Airdate" in the table header would work just as well as "Original U.S. airdate". Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 07:06, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Airdate does work much better, I went ahead and changed it. Mastrchf (t/c) 15:47, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by User:The Rambling Man 10:11, 5 July 2008 [21].
This list has seen huge improvement since I started expanding it last week, and just today added colored tables for each Chinese invention listed alphabetically. It has a sufficient lead section and picture, two small picture galleries, and a comprehensive list of items that are fully described with prose and heavily cited (154 184 inline citations as of now). Although there were various complaints in the past as seen on the talk page, this is due to the poor amount of references provided that I have remedied and drastically improved. I think it is ready for featured status.--Pericles of AthensTalk 21:32, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments A few questions that pop up right away: why is all of this in table-format? Everything is only one column, so why not just do it with straight prose? And a related question (which may be irrelevant depending on your response to the first), why are the tables colored? That doesn't seem to serve any functional purpose to me. Last question is, why so few images? An image of each invention along the right side of the screen would be great. Drewcifer (talk) 21:39, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I agree with Drew regarding the table format. It gives the article a much neater look, but I think the information can be conveyed with by using headers or semi-colons. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 21:57, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment -
it would be preferable just to have level three headings under "Four Great Inventions" and "Other inventions". No real reason to have tables when there's only one column. And especially for an article like this, the more images the better, and it will be easier to place them if you have sections.Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 21:56, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply] - I think buletted paragraphs is the best format myself (otherwise it feels like you just have disjointed paragraphs with randomly bolded words). Circeus (talk) 23:25, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Really guys? You don't like the tables? Ok, I'll get rid of them for sub-section headings instead, but I just want to say that by adding all of those tables, I wasted a good two hours of my life! Lol.--Pericles of AthensTalk 23:51, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I just deleted the tables and I am now disbursing the gallery images throughout the article. I intend to add many more pictures as suggested.--Pericles of AthensTalk 00:24, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I agree that bullets are probably the best format, but is there any way of making them appear in the contents? - that is currently very short and I think it needs to include the 'other inventions'. Perhaps that section could be split into a few categories so you see more links in the TOC. Otherwise fantastic article with lots of pictures and <ref>s. - tholly --Turnip-- 19:36, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I thought about creating sub-sections under the "Other inventions" section, but I don't know how to classify everything under certain sub-sections. Perhaps ancient, medieval, and modern? Or, since it is in alphabetical order, I could create sub-sections by letters? Like "A, B, C, D," etc. etc.? Or would that be a bit too much? Along with the fact that not every letter in the alphabet will be represented. I would like to hear other suggestions--Pericles of AthensTalk 19:53, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Mmmmmm... I think that "A, B, C..." would be going too far. I don't know how well they would split into the different categories but that would probably be best, with the listed alphabetically in each section. - tholly --Turnip-- 20:00, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I thought about creating sub-sections under the "Other inventions" section, but I don't know how to classify everything under certain sub-sections. Perhaps ancient, medieval, and modern? Or, since it is in alphabetical order, I could create sub-sections by letters? Like "A, B, C, D," etc. etc.? Or would that be a bit too much? Along with the fact that not every letter in the alphabet will be represented. I would like to hear other suggestions--Pericles of AthensTalk 19:53, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I agree that bullets are probably the best format, but is there any way of making them appear in the contents? - that is currently very short and I think it needs to include the 'other inventions'. Perhaps that section could be split into a few categories so you see more links in the TOC. Otherwise fantastic article with lots of pictures and <ref>s. - tholly --Turnip-- 19:36, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I just deleted the tables and I am now disbursing the gallery images throughout the article. I intend to add many more pictures as suggested.--Pericles of AthensTalk 00:24, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Really guys? You don't like the tables? Ok, I'll get rid of them for sub-section headings instead, but I just want to say that by adding all of those tables, I wasted a good two hours of my life! Lol.--Pericles of AthensTalk 23:51, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support Just see above comment. - tholly --Turnip-- 19:41, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment The introduction definitely needs to be expanded. There is so much content but so little summary or explanation in the lead to prepare the reader for the list? For instance, why did the Chinese invent these items, etc. Gary King (talk) 04:16, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- You want to include information on why the Chinese invented these items? You mean like explaining every practical use of cast iron? Dear God, I hope not! Lol. I will, however, see what I can do about expanding the lead.--Pericles of AthensTalk 04:45, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- No; just talk about why they invented these items in general. For instance, perhaps the geographical location of China or their way of life caused them to invent these things? Gary King (talk) 05:01, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Great suggestions. That will entail more research, but I am up for the challenge, sir.--Pericles of AthensTalk 05:05, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Unfortunately, there is nothing immediatley available on the web which tackles this rather profound question, but I will keep looking.--Pericles of AthensTalk 17:57, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Great suggestions. That will entail more research, but I am up for the challenge, sir.--Pericles of AthensTalk 05:05, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- No; just talk about why they invented these items in general. For instance, perhaps the geographical location of China or their way of life caused them to invent these things? Gary King (talk) 05:01, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- You want to include information on why the Chinese invented these items? You mean like explaining every practical use of cast iron? Dear God, I hope not! Lol. I will, however, see what I can do about expanding the lead.--Pericles of AthensTalk 04:45, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Surely you have something available in print, considering the entire article is referenced to print material? :) Gary King (talk) 05:49, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- But I don't have Needham's Volume 7, Part 2, which would have covered this subject in detail! A shame I never considered buying that volume; my local library does not carry it.--Pericles of AthensTalk 07:04, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Surely you have something available in print, considering the entire article is referenced to print material? :) Gary King (talk) 05:49, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support This looks good now. Gary King (talk) 16:12, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I think that simply naming every single invention in the lead is a cop-out to expanding the lead. Why not tell the reader what the first recorded invention is, and when for example? Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 05:56, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- A cop-out? Who said I was done expanding the lead? Why is listing what is found in the article a "cop-out"? I completely disagree. Sure, I would love to tell the reader what the very first recorded invention in China was, if I could find such a thing. However, that is not what is being listed in this article. What is being listed in this article are inventions that first appeared in China. The very first recorded invention of China could very well be an invention thought of and invented somewhere else in the world beforehand, you know, in civilizations like Sumeria, ancient Egypt, Indus Valley, Minoa, etc. etc.--Pericles of AthensTalk 19:39, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- To appease you somewhat, I have included information on Neolithic China in the introduction. Does that satisfy you?--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:38, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Also, keep in mind that this is not a detailed "History of Technology in China" article, but a simple list of Chinese inventions with some brief explanations of each item. Big difference there.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:58, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- True, but look at any other Featured list, and point out one that lists every entry in the LS. Most just pick a handful to discuss. The third paragraph improves the LS alot though. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 07:28, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Also, keep in mind that this is not a detailed "History of Technology in China" article, but a simple list of Chinese inventions with some brief explanations of each item. Big difference there.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:58, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- To appease you somewhat, I have included information on Neolithic China in the introduction. Does that satisfy you?--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:38, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- A cop-out? Who said I was done expanding the lead? Why is listing what is found in the article a "cop-out"? I completely disagree. Sure, I would love to tell the reader what the very first recorded invention in China was, if I could find such a thing. However, that is not what is being listed in this article. What is being listed in this article are inventions that first appeared in China. The very first recorded invention of China could very well be an invention thought of and invented somewhere else in the world beforehand, you know, in civilizations like Sumeria, ancient Egypt, Indus Valley, Minoa, etc. etc.--Pericles of AthensTalk 19:39, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose—Cr 1. Here are a few examples of why the whole page needs copy-editing.
- "The civilization of China"—unidiomatic: "Chinese civilization".
- Second sentence: semicolon should be colon.
- "The list below contains these above mentioned items and others which appeared in China first."—Below/above, ouch. Above-mentioned is hyphenated, but avoid it. The status of "first" is unclear.
- "(202 BC–220 AD)"—Read MOS on en-dash spacing.
- The column width of the refs is very small and makes it hard to read.
Plus lots more. TONY (talk) 09:46, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Response:
- It has been changed simply to "China" and nothing else.
- Already changed to a colon.
- That sentence has been changed.
- I see on WP:MOS what you're talking about now; I'll fix every one of those now.
- The column width of references is merely a preference issue, and I have many featured articles where the refs are that size and no one found fault with them. You're opposing the article for that?
- "Plus lots more" - Ok, could you list them?--Pericles of AthensTalk 19:39, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments - I can see a whole heap of work has gone in here so I'm not going to archive it yet, nor am I going to pass it - I have some comments and I'm prepared to keep the FLC open a while longer. I'll try to pick out some other specific examples of failures of Cr 1 and Cr 5 in particular.
- Second para of lead is pure blue-link hell. Do you really need to list them all out in the lead when you're going to list them all out again in the list? Why not pick two or three specifics, expand on them and then leave the list to do the rest of the work?
- Personal choice but the remains of the crossbow image in the lead is pretty uninspiring. Why not one of the "four great" ones?
- It's not mandated but I prefer to see citations in numerical order unless there is a really good reason why they're not, e.g. [35][36][37][38][33][17][39] just looks odd to me.
- The 1/600 th looks really odd in my browser. Maybe just consider text?
- "(202 BC – 220 AD) craftsman and engineer Ding Huan (fl. 180)" - is it just me or could that 180 be BC or AD?
- Seismometer caption - clarify if it's AD or BC you're talking about.
- Bray, Carlson, Lewis MJT, Simmons all have dashes in their references between page numbers instead of en-dash.
- Several references missing ISBN numbers.
- I think Tony's point about the use of three columns for the reflist (on browsers which support it) is fair enough. There have been a number of discussion recently about assumptions on min screen resolution and I think piping it to two columns would be better. 80% of the world (Internet explorer users) won't know the difference anyway. Safari users (like Tony and I) will, and will appreciate it.
The Rambling Man (talk) 16:38, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Response:
- I scrapped that entire paragraph and wrote a new one on the significance of certain Chinese inventions, which I think reads and looks much better. There is now no excessive use of links and instead of listing everything to be found, I have converted that paragraph into readable prose.
- Although it is entirely a preference issue of yours, I went ahead and changed the lead picture of the article to something a bit more enticing.
- Citations which appear out of order (numerically) should not be an issue. Is this something that actually bothers you?
- It looks odd? How so? It looks perfectly fine on my browser. I prefer fractions which show the numbers top-and-bottom, not side-to-side, but this is merely a preference issue and I wanted to show off my wiki skills a bit by making a fraction without resorting to the use of a simple slash.
- I fixed Ding Huan's date to AD.
- I fixed the seismometer's date to AD.
- I added en dashes in those references as you suggested.
- "Several references missing ISBN numbers" - Does this matter? Sure, it's good to include the ISBN number when you can, but having a few references which lack them is no grounds to oppose an article's candidacy for featured status (not saying you have, but you did admit your consideration of shutting this discussion down and archiving it).
- I have fixed the references so that they appear larger. I hope that everyone is now happy (at least with this issue).--Pericles of AthensTalk 00:58, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Lead section is much better now that list-paragraph is gone. Very informative. Meets criteria. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 07:01, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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The list was promoted by User:The Rambling Man 14:08, 4 July 2008 [22].
A few days ago, I saw that this list of one of my favorite TV shows wasn't in very good shape. It wasn't terrible but it definitely needed some sprucing. So I got some sources and expanded the list and even included a cover and detailed synopses for each season. Looking at it now, it does seem a lot better, even if do say so myself! So review the list and tell me whether it seemed like "a damn fine cup of coffee" or not. Thanks! (SUDUSER)85 15:31, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Quick comments from The Rambling Man (talk · contribs)
- No bold links in the opening section of the lead please.
- Done fixed (SUDUSER)85 13:36, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Place citations per WP:CITE, i.e. immediately after punctuation where possible.
- " To date, both seasons of Twin Peaks have been released on..." why To date? Won't this always be the case from now on?
- Done fixed (SUDUSER)85 13:36, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Why are the number of episodes (in total and each series) in bold?
- Done rmv for individual seasons, but I thought it's supposed to be there in the lead, that's the case for lists like List of Seinfeld episodes and List of The Sopranos episodes. (SUDUSER)85 13:36, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- " spanning two seasons of 30 episodes, until its cancellation" - no, it still spans two seasons of 30 episodes. Subsequently it was cancelled.
- Done Sentence reworked. (SUDUSER)85 13:36, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Last sentence of lead not cited.
- Done Fortunately I had the book Lynch on Lynch (SUDUSER)85 13:36, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "1990–91" rather than "1990 – 1991", or at least axe the spaces.
- Done Spaces axed (SUDUSER)85 13:36, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- What makes episode world a reliable source?
- Done rmv (SUDUSER)85 13:36, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Second general reference and third external link are essentially identical, probably lose the ext. link.
- Done rmv to include just one in the general refs. (SUDUSER)85 13:36, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The Rambling Man (talk) 15:58, 10 June 2008 (UTC) Done all suggestions by The Rambling Man have been addressed by (SUDUSER)85. (SUDUSER)85 13:36, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments (edit conflicted with Rambling Man above)
- Remove links from any bold text, or remove the bold, per WP:LEAD.
- Done See The Rambling Man's comments above. (SUDUSER)85 13:36, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Publishers in references only need to be italicized if they are publications and follow MOS:TITLE.
- "released October 30, 2007[3]." – reference goes after all punctuation marks per WP:FOOTNOTE
- Done See The Rambling Man's comments above. (SUDUSER)85 13:36, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Gary King (talk) 16:00, 10 June 2008 (UTC) Done all suggestions by Gary King have been addressed by (SUDUSER)85. (SUDUSER)85 13:36, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done Remove the bold from "of 30 episodes. " (SUDUSER)85 13:13, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Gary King (talk) 17:58, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support Gary King (talk) 16:10, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
- Need references for the writers and directors.
- Done The episode numbering in season two don't match. --Gman124 talk 21:21, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Done all suggestions by User:Gman124 have been addressed by (SUDUSER)85. (SUDUSER)85 13:36, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment tv.com is not a reliable source since it is user edited. So find other reliable sources. Gman124 talk 19:51, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done I was able to refer the Production Documents that came with the Twin Peaks Gold Box. I don't thinks gets any more reliable than that. (SUDUSER)85 04:10, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
now Support --Gman124 talk 04:39, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done Don't split the bold text in the intro sentence. Even better though, think of a more artistic way to introduce the article, instead of a repetition of the article's title
- I think it's okay now. Take a look if you want to. (SUDUSER)85 14:29, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Take a look at today's main page article, Tiridates I of Armenia. It doesn't begin with "This is a comprehensive article about Tiridates I." It jumps straight in and tells the reader that he was King of Armenia in AD 53. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs •email) 15:05, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I though for lists like discographies and episode lists, you were supposed to introduce it like that? (SUDUSER)85 06:49, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Take a look at today's main page article, Tiridates I of Armenia. It doesn't begin with "This is a comprehensive article about Tiridates I." It jumps straight in and tells the reader that he was King of Armenia in AD 53. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs •email) 15:05, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I think it's okay now. Take a look if you want to. (SUDUSER)85 14:29, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done "Subsequently it was cancelled on June 10, 1991." No need for "subsequently". Who cancelled it? The network, or the producers decided to end it?
- ABC decided to cancel the series on June 10, 1991 due to declining ratings in the second season. - I think that qualifies. (SUDUSER)85 14:29, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done Reference it though Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 15:05, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- ABC decided to cancel the series on June 10, 1991 due to declining ratings in the second season. - I think that qualifies. (SUDUSER)85 14:29, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done Use the
prodcode=
field in {{episode list}}, and alsoAltTitle=
for the Pilot's alternative title. - Done Extra space at "Washington ."
- Done Are the episodes half-hour or an hour long? Either way some of the summaries are a bit too short. Five lines is good, but two lines isn't.
- I have included the length in the lead, though I think that the summaries are quite okay, I mean look at other articles like List of The Unit episodes and List of Desperate Housewives episodes. What is your take on this? (SUDUSER)85 06:31, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I'd prefer them to be longer. At least a sentence per "act" (by which I mean between each commercial break.
- I have included the length in the lead, though I think that the summaries are quite okay, I mean look at other articles like List of The Unit episodes and List of Desperate Housewives episodes. What is your take on this? (SUDUSER)85 06:31, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 06:49, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Ok I'll work on it later. (SUDUSER)85 07:45, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done Is the link to watch full episodes on CBS a reference? It's not much help to anyone outside the US. Stick it in the External links and say US-based IPs only.
- Done What is reference 4? A book? If so the title needs itallics
- Done Rationale for the boxset is wrong. It says it's a logo, but there's one specifically for DVD covers. {{Non-free video cover}}.
- That's the copyright tag sorted, but the rationale still mentions logo. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 15:05, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done All fixed. (SUDUSER)85 06:49, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- That's the copyright tag sorted, but the rationale still mentions logo. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 15:05, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 22:49, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Done Everything suggested by Matthewedwards has been fixed by (SUDUSER)85 14:29, 25 June 2008 (UTC) on 14:29, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]Comment
- I did a quick review. I would like to support this because the list is appropriately structured and sourced, and the article has a good lead. However, I see a need for copy-editing of the season and episode descriptions. I have fixed one sentence whose wording really bothered me and a second sentence that was awkward, but I still see other opportunities for improvement. For example, I am bothered by trite verbosity such as "...expose Twin Peaks as the disturbed, unsettling town that it is" and the numerous sentences that are strung together by "and"s and commas. Skimming the article, I also detect a few misspellings. --Orlady (talk) 00:45, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Malachirality appears to be inactive at the moment. So I've approached Golbez instead. (SUDUSER)85 15:07, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I've done some of the needed copy-editing, but I continue to think that more is needed. I am not a particularly good candidate for this job because I think the writing style used in these and other episode descriptions is horrifying. Having said that, here are some examples of items that I think are particularly important to fix:
- Done One piece of awkward wording that has me stymied is "Leo's battered housewife Shelly decides to get revenge." The noun "housewife" is not normally preceded by a possessive. Is Shelly the wife of Leo? In that case, perhaps she should be called "Leo's battered wife." Is it important to call her "housewife" instead of "wife"?
- Done In the sentence fragment "Cooper has a vision of a mysterious giant, as he lies bleeding from a serious gunshot wound," am I correct in thinking that Cooper is the one who lies bleeding and not the mysterious giant (which is what the word order implies)?
- In the sentence fragment "Josie returns from Seattle, bearing her 'cousin' Jonathan from Hong Kong in tow," is there a literal meaning to the words "bearing" and "in tow" (that is, was she carrying and/or towing him?) or are these words merely being used as idiomatic expressions meaning "with"?
- --Orlady (talk) 16:50, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I've done some of the needed copy-editing, but I continue to think that more is needed. I am not a particularly good candidate for this job because I think the writing style used in these and other episode descriptions is horrifying. Having said that, here are some examples of items that I think are particularly important to fix:
- Malachirality appears to be inactive at the moment. So I've approached Golbez instead. (SUDUSER)85 15:07, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Done All fixed. (SUDUSER)85 06:26, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done Glad to see the changes. However, I am still puzzled by the wording "bearing her 'cousin' Jonathan from Hong Kong." Why is the word "bearing" used here? Was she physically carrying him, or could this word be changed to "bringing" or "accompanied by"? --Orlady (talk) 11:43, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Changed it to "bringing." (SUDUSER)85 07:29, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- OK, I can support this now (although I would prefer to see writing that is not so larded with clichéd expressions).--Orlady (talk) 12:40, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Alright then thanks! (SUDUSER)85 14:20, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- OK, I can support this now (although I would prefer to see writing that is not so larded with clichéd expressions).--Orlady (talk) 12:40, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Changed it to "bringing." (SUDUSER)85 07:29, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done Glad to see the changes. However, I am still puzzled by the wording "bearing her 'cousin' Jonathan from Hong Kong." Why is the word "bearing" used here? Was she physically carrying him, or could this word be changed to "bringing" or "accompanied by"? --Orlady (talk) 11:43, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The list was promoted by User:The Rambling Man 07:47, 4 July 2008 [23].
I think I'm on a trend now. First episode lists, now this :p Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 10:49, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Nice list! Here's a few suggestions:
- "Due to a change in the rules made for the 79th Academy Awards,[10] the Academy published a shortlist of nine films prior to the selection of the final five nomineees." When was the shortlist published? The table says January; is that correct?
- Please clarify how each country selected their submissions. Did the Academy ask the government of each country for a submission, or did they ask a certain film organization? Was the selection done by a committee or some other method?--Dem393 (talk) 15:22, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Fixed. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 00:34, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Ok, but in the sentence before source 4 make "film" plural. That's my only concern now so I support. --Dem393 (talk) 03:31, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment I think the Wikinews template goes in the External links section per WP:SISTER. Gary King (talk) 15:46, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- WP:SISTER says next to the event, which would mean in the lead. Is this the case? Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 00:34, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments
- No picture at all? Nothing? Shame...
- I guess I could use Image:Stefan Ruzowitzky ROMY2008.jpg, an image of the director of the winning film. It's not a picture of him at the Academy Awards, but it's a picture of him I suppose. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 08:10, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Reorder [8][7] if there's no good reason to have [8] first.
- Fixed. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 08:10, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Probably worth mentioning the winner in the lead.
- Fixed. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 08:10, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Tom Collins links to a cocktail.
- Fixed. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 08:10, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Director as a col heading probably should be Director(s) since some have more than one.
- Fixed. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 08:10, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Not directly related to this list but the two Academy Award templates at the bottom of the list have slightly different colouration - it's distracting. Any chance you might "fix" this discrepancy?
- Fixed. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 08:10, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- No picture at all? Nothing? Shame...
The Rambling Man (talk) 07:46, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I think that's it. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 08:10, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: You really need to go through and check every link for redirects or misdirects; Caucasia has no link to the film, for example. This should be redlinked, or an article created. But don't just check this one, check 'em all. :) --Golbez (talk) 13:43, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Went through them. The links should be fine. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 01:13, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The list was promoted by User:The Rambling Man 07:10, 4 July 2008 [24].
I think this list does meet featured list criteria. If you guys have any questions or comments, I would try to answer them.Gman124 talk 17:12, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support - I originally created this, and then improved it a little after Gman nominated it. I think it meets the criteria. « Milk's Favorite Cøøkie 17:21, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support as nominator. --Gman124 talk 18:29, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments
- No need to overlink NBA Finals in the lead.
- Done by Milk's Favorite Cookie
- "while the 1959-to-1966 domination of the NBA Championship" - not keep on the wikilinking here - perhaps "the domination of NBA championship from 1959 to 1966..."?
- 1959–1966 - I think 1959–66 is better.
- "The current coach ..." - "As of June 2008, the coach of the ...." - provides a milestone.
- Games Coached - Games coached.
- Done by Milk's Favorite Cookie
- Year ranges in the Achievements col need to take en-dash.
- No need for italics in present.
- Done --Gman124 talk 17:37, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep the terms per my third comment also - like the achievement year ranges - YYYY–YY.
- Done --Gman124 talk 17:39, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Put a bullet point before the general ref.
- Done --Gman124 talk 17:39, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "basketball-reference.com" vs "Basketball-Reference.com"
- Done by Milk's Favorite Cookie
- No need to overlink NBA Finals in the lead.
The Rambling Man (talk) 17:29, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments (more)
- "while the domination of NBA championship from 1959–66, with eight straight titles" and "The franchise won eight consecutive NBA championships from 1959–1966" - a little repetitive.
- Can you make the GC, W, L, W-L%, etc columns the same width? Would be aesthetically improved.
- Auerbach's image caption should be Celtics, not celtics.
- Heinsohn's image caption should take en-dash, not hyphen.
- Fitch caption should link to Fitch, use an en-dash and have a period.
- Did all comments --Gman124 talk 18:07, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The Rambling Man (talk) 17:54, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments (more)
- Although I haven't seen it on other head coach lists, is there a reason why Playoffs doesn't have a W–L% col?
- Added W–L% col for Playoffs. --Gman124 talk 18:25, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Auerbach caption should have a comma after Celtics.Y
- Fitch's caption needs a "the" between "won" and "1981" and needs to have "year" capitalised.Y
- Auerbach's Coach of the Year years in the table need an en-dash, not a hyphen.Y
- You have single and double daggers in the key but not in the table.Y
- Although I haven't seen it on other head coach lists, is there a reason why Playoffs doesn't have a W–L% col?
The Rambling Man (talk) 18:14, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support This looks pretty good now after Rambling Man's issues were resolved. Gary King (talk) 18:26, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment This page is orphaned. There are no links to any article in the mainspace. I think you should add a link in the main article at least.--Crzycheetah 18:52, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Added. « Milk's Favorite Cøøkie 18:55, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments
- Is it possible to get a more interesting lead sentence? People can look at the title to see what page they're on. Also, if you keep it as is, remove the bold link per MoS.Y
- Bill Russell, Tom Heinsohn, Tom Sanders, Dave Cowens, K.C. Jones, Chris Ford and M. L. Carr have
allplayed andheadcoached for the Celtics. Some redundancies.Y
- Support All my issues have been addressed, nothing else wrong that I can see. Good work! Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 15:21, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support The only thing I want in this list is that the years of term be linked. Done Annoyomous24 (talk) 22:32, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Also the years of championships/coach of the year to be linked. Annoyomous24 (talk) 00:32, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by User:The Rambling Man 07:10, 4 July 2008 [25].
I worked on this article in my sandbox then moved it. I think this list does meet featured list criteria. If you guys have any questions or comments, I would try to answer them. (Annoyomous24) (talk) 22:55, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Perhaps force a TOC with Help:TOC so people don't have to use a scroll bar to get to the bottom of the page.DONE! Gary King (talk) 01:08, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Are there any public domain pictures that can be added to the article? DONE!
- "1948 - 1960." Check out WP:DASH DONE!
- "The Lakers are generally regarded as one of the NBA's most successful franchises." Says who? Reference please DONE!
- The article contains some sentences that are lifted straight from List of Los Angeles Lakers first and second round draft picks. For next time, you should attribute the revision and author in the edit summary, per WP:REUSE (or my interpretation of it -- and it doesn't hurt to do it just in case.) DONE!
- "The franchise got its official name from Minnesota's nickname, Land of 10,000 Lakes." Why? Explain why a team in the most south-western state of America takes its nickname from one of the most nothern. DONE!
Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 06:34, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment—The lead section is the bare minimum. Please read MOS on dashes, carefully. Not a single pic? It doesn't have to have one, but I'm surprised that there are none to be found. DONE! TONY (talk) 09:16, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Shouldn't the tables be sortable? Do we really need to colour code it (its quite unsightly)? Further, colour-coding on the basis of Hall of Fame seems to classify the coaches in a POV way: the guys in orange are better than the ones that aren't. Just the * and † should be enough. DONE! indopug (talk) 11:38, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments
- WP:DASH again - in the image caption - in fact, it'd probably be just as well to write "to" rather than use the en-dash here. DONE!
- Put (NBA) after National Basketball Association. DONE!
- "formally known" do you really mean formally or do you mean "formerly"? That's a question, not a criticism by the way! DONE!
- First para of lead is too choppy for me, the prose needs work, in particular "The franchise got its official name from Minnesota's nickname, Land of 10,000 Lakes because at the time the name was revealed, the Lakers were in Minneapolis" DONE!
- Also, why link franchise on the second instance? DONE!
- Why is the Key in smaller text? DONE!
- "Games Coached"->"Games coached" DONE!
- Remove the spaces between the W and the hyphen and the L and replace the hyphen with an en dash. DONE!
- >No need to relink coaches in the table after their first linkage (e.g. Kundla). DONE!
- Why are Awards in bold? DONE!
- See WP:DASH for the records, e.g. "380 - 240" should be "380–240", also for the years, so "1948 - 1958" should be "1948–58" etc. DONE!
- Be consistent with leading zeros on the percentages - either all or none. DONE!
- Add a bullet point before the only general ref. DONE!
- Ref 2 needs
accessdate
etc. DONE! - Ref 3 needs isbn if available. DONE!
- Is there a "Category:Basketball lists" or similar to which this can be added? DONE!
The Rambling Man (talk) 07:24, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for commenting on this featured list candidate, The Rambling Man. (Annoyomous24) (talk) 20:51, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Nominator: please don't strike out reviewers' comments; let them do that. The lead is a little better (not great), but two things:
- Read MOS on unspaced en dashes; all of the en dashes I see should be unspaced. That might help the next issue a little, too. DONE!
- Column-width management; seriously bad effect in some columns (W–L, etc), Can you take up more horizontal space (there aren't even side pics to stop you). Try "Ref." in the last column to save space there. Once these two things are done, I'm OK. DONE! TONY (talk) 04:17, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Please DO NOT strike out reviewers' comments, as you have been asked/reverted a number of times. Put "done, Done, or something similar to show you have addressed each comment, as requested by the instructions at WP:FLC. It is really hard to know whether what you have sticken is because they're done or because you've ignored them, and reviewers often read previous revewers' comments to avoid repetition. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 22:00, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- First of all, I read somewhere to not put the Done template do represent the request being done as it will slow down the loading of the page. Second of all, Crzycheetah striked out some of the requests that were finished so I thought striking out represents being done. Third of all, I was never asked to not strike out the request. (Annoyomous24) (talk) 22:07, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- {{done}} shouldn't be used at WP:FAC or WP:PR, and that is one of the rules of nomination at those two places. Here, though, it's not disallowed. I noticed Tony1 has also requested that comments not be stricken out, above. I don't believe CrzyCheetah has stricken anything here. The history doesn't have his name listed. Anyway, it's all good now. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 22:20, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- For the second and third sentence I wrote above your previous one, I meant the featured list candidate for List of Los Angeles Lakers first and second round draft picks. Sorry for my confusion since I sometimes forget which one I'm on. Annoyomous24 (talk) 22:37, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I also dont see Tony1 asking me not to strike out. Annoyomous24 (talk) 22:47, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- You don't see Tony1's comments regarding striking out because you undid them. I have struck my comments that I thought were resolved. I will never strike your or someone else's comments.--Crzycheetah 06:43, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Actually, I see it now. Crzycheetah, I never undid them, I just didn't see it since I was scanning the page. Annoyomous24 (talk) 20:12, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- You don't see Tony1's comments regarding striking out because you undid them. I have struck my comments that I thought were resolved. I will never strike your or someone else's comments.--Crzycheetah 06:43, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments
- The lead is too short, especially the first paragraph. DONE!
- Why do you pipe-link the "Dynasty" page as "franchise"? DONE!
- "franchise got its official name" - I don't think got is the right verb here. DONE!
- I disagree with the above reviewer, I believe that HoF and tenure should be color-coded as well. Not to be indicated by those weird symbols only. DONE!
- Citation #5 should be note [a]. DONE!
- Some other general reference should be added to check the basketball-reference.com. We should not rely on one source.
- What new info did you take from the refs in the "refs" column that you could not take from the general reference?
- PLEASE, do not strike out or undo any of my comments. Thanks!
--Crzycheetah 06:43, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I took the year of when they won a Championship and checked if they coached for another team from the refs in the "refs" column that you could not take from the general reference. Annoyomous24 (talk) 20:08, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Why are the term years unlinked? DONE!
- Basketball-reference.com still remains the only reference for this list. There should be more than one. DONE!
- Why do you need to know if they coached another team? Thankfully, you didn't add that info to this page, but still why did you provide those refs?
- I took the year of when they won a Championship and checked if they coached for another team from the refs in the "refs" column that you could not take from the general reference. Annoyomous24 (talk) 20:08, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
--Crzycheetah 23:28, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Because some of the coaches spent their entire coaching careers with the Lakers and on the list, it denotes it. Annoyomous24 (talk) 23:54, 03 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support The only thing I don't understand is the last part in the lead: have all played and head coached for the Lakers. I never knew that "head coach" may be used as a verb. I suggest reword that part better.--Crzycheetah 06:01, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by User:The Rambling Man 07:10, 4 July 2008 [26].
Well I finally got around to creating this article and I've doubled checked everything to make sure it is worthy of FL status. The only thing I've seen wrong with it is that it has 1 red link (Joe Thomas). I was going to create an article but I know absolutely nothing about him and there are minimal references for him. Besides FL criteria states "minimal proportion of red links." so it should be okay. HoosierStateTalk 14:54, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support, as nominator. HoosierStateTalk 14:56, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment What makes Sports Ecyclopedia a reliable source? Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 18:24, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments from The Rambling Man (talk · contribs)
- Opening sentence is boring, a verbatim copy of the title of the list with "This is a ..." added.
- (17 total) is confusing.
- "March of 1984" -> March 1984.
- I prefer to explain NFL before using it as an abbreviation.
- "...by at least one major news organization. Additionally, Ewbank and Shula are members of the Pro Football Hall of Fame, having been inducted in 1978 and 1997 respectively." - citations?
- W/L records need an en-dash, not a hyphen.
- "managing to win 2 games, and finished the season at 2-12" - two and tenses change mid-sentence.
- "Then 2005 Tony Dungy was forced to miss the 15th game of the season due to personal issues and Jim Caldwell was named as the one game interim.[4]"- this is nowhere near English I'm afraid. Copyedit required.
- Loses in the Key should be Losses.
- W – L doesn't need the spaces.
- Confirm all coach awards are cited.
The Rambling Man (talk) 20:03, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done I believe I covered everything. HoosierStateTalk 21:18, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support Looks good Gary King (talk) 04:43, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments Just 2 for now.
- "This is a complete list of Indianapolis Colts head coaches." I would hope it is complete if it's featured. Repeating the article title is also a boring way to introduce the article. Try no use something which engages the reader.
- Most of the other FLs of this genre don't use a bullet to identify those who spent their entire career with the team. Try to be consistent with those.
Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 06:03, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done, Also after looking at the other articles like this, I noticed there isn't really any consensus on how to show coaches that spent their entire career with their respective franchise. So I just removed the symbols and stuck with color solely. HoosierStateTalk 06:24, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- You can't do that per WP:ACCESS. If you use colour, you must use a text based marker for those who are colourblind or have a black and white monitor, or who are accessing a printed version of the article. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 06:51, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Duh! I knew that, it's fixed. Backing up to when I used the bullets, I was using the Green Bay Packers version of this article as a guide and they had bullets so it ended up the same way over here. HoosierStateTalk 06:55, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- You can't do that per WP:ACCESS. If you use colour, you must use a text based marker for those who are colourblind or have a black and white monitor, or who are accessing a printed version of the article. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 06:51, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done, Also after looking at the other articles like this, I noticed there isn't really any consensus on how to show coaches that spent their entire career with their respective franchise. So I just removed the symbols and stuck with color solely. HoosierStateTalk 06:24, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Prose is ordinary; MOS breaches.
- Please read MOS on en dashes.
- "He also led" --> "; he led". And please remove the ugly "Additionally".
- Sentence case in table text (e.g., "Games Coached"). TONY (talk) 09:40, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "Keith Molesworth became the first coach of the Baltimore Colts in 1953 but he was reassigned to a different position with the team following the season." No: "... 1953, but was ...".
- Done, all fixed. HoosierStateTalk 20:39, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment
- Not all done - en-dash needed instead of hyphen in the lead.
- No bold links in the lead.
- Prose, as Tony said, is very plain.
- Why no article for Thomas? Makes the linking out from the list incomplete, which is a pity.
The Rambling Man (talk) 11:50, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done, everything you commented on is fixed. The only thing is, I only changed the lead of the article a little bit. I honestly don't know what else I could do to make it better. I looked at every other FL list like this and they're all similar to what this list has. HoosierStateTalk 22:25, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by User:The Rambling Man 07:10, 4 July 2008 [27].
This list is based on List of heads of state of the Central African Republic and Central African Empire. Enjoy! Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 20:25, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments by Baldrick90
I really enjoy lists like these, keep up the good work. Here are a few comments to start with. I wish you luck on your nominations and I will probably support once these are addressed.
- Please don't write centreafricain with a capital c, just like in your other list I reviewed here at flc.
- In the table, either write both "territorial autonomy" and "Independent" with a capital letter or not.
- Capitalized. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 23:25, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- You should probably add ", Prime Minister" to the name of David Dacko in the table.
- Could you create an article for Operation Barracuda? I noticed it in your other list too.
- This is on my to-do list. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 23:25, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Since there are just two red links, I would recommend you create articles for both the "Operation Barracuda" and "Civic forum".
- Same as above. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 23:25, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I am somewhat confused about the latter. In the notes section of Malendoma I read "Democratic Forum". Am I correct the Democratic Forum and the Civic Forum (capital f?) are the same party? If not, please explain.
- They're not. It's weird, but Malendoma founded the Democratic Forum, but ran as a candidate of the Civic Forum party in elections. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 23:25, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I wonder if the term "Nonpartisan" is American. I only know it as a military term and have never heard someone use it in European politics (I am Dutch). Do you know any alternatives?
- Independent is frequently used as an alternative, but it's not the same. Nonpartisan usually means that the person hasn't declared a political affiliation. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 23:25, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "prime minister" in the notes section of Élie Doté should be "Prime Minister".
- Why is "September 2006" wikilinked? The reshuffle apparantly wasn't notable enough to be mentioned in this particular article. I would remove this link and just use [[September 3]], [[2006]]. This makes note 38 completely redundant. Also, I don't think "Central Africa" should be used to refer to the country, Uganda and Congo (to name two) are also in Central Africa.
- Ref 38 was actually AFP press report, but I messed up one of the parameters. Also, link to September 2006 removed. I think I had copied that link over from Doté's article. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 23:25, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Why was Domitien removed from office?
- Koyambounou has been in office for almost a year and two months. Nothing to comment on?
- Nothing significant during his term (as far as I can see in LexisNexis). I did include a bit about his prior occupation. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 23:49, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Same goes for Dacko's first term and the second term of Patassé.
- I think it's worth a mention that Doté has served the longest term of all.
- Added to image caption. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 23:25, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Two footnote links don't work: C and I. It's always a good idea to check those.
- Note that you put a footnote in front of a reference in this article. Like here: "October 22, 1993[I][12]". You do the opposite in your list List of Sultans of Zanzibar: "(..) or 1840,[2][A] Sa'id (..)". Please be consistent.
- I did that on sultans because [2] was a reference for "1840", while [A] is a note regarding the inconsistency with dates. I didn't want to have [A][2] because it wouldn't make sense to the reader. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 23:49, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Where are the accessdates?
Baldrick90 (talk) 22:32, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Weird, I couldn't get the accessdates to work before, so I thought they didn't work on {{citation}}. It looks like I had this problem because I included an accessdate for a non-URL citation. :) Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 23:25, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: Good! TONY (talk) 04:28, 26 June 2008 (UTC) Criteria 2 (info in lead woefully inadequate) and 6 (visual appeal lacking in shambolic column widths).[reply]
- (1) Essential information: is it a representative democracy? How do these people become PM/president? Is there an assembly? Just a few sentences filling in the context from a mechanistic point of view is important. And parties are mentioned in the key and the table, but the lead has to foreground this: has policy ever been at issue, or is it all personality-based, stab-in-the-back stuff? If it has been a contest between colonialists and independence promoters, or between landowners/corporations and other societal interests, please tell us IN THE LEAD. At the moment, it's just a mystery and a collection of meaningless names and parties. Not featured stuff.
- The Central African Republic is a republic. They hold elections, both presidential and legislative. But this doesn't appear to have been stated, still. TONY (talk) 04:28, 26 June 2008 (UTC) The President names the Prime Minister and I believe the National Assembly votes on the candidate (not sure about this, I'll check). The parties differentiate in their ideologies. MESAN was the ruling party for decades before other parties were allowed to enter the political scene (most of this happened during President Kolingba's rule in the 1980s). I'll add these details. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 13:05, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- (2) Tons of horizontal space wasted in the second and third columns, and then the Notes column squashes large amounts of text into many many lines, thus creating wasted vertical space in the table. Need to do some width "forcing".
- I reduced the width in the second and third columns. Better? Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 13:05, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- (3) Too many words in the "Notes" column. Start by removing the names from each opening, since they are entirely redundant. Use the stubby grammar of note-form, like this:
Founder of the MESAN party;[1] negotiated for the independence of Oubangui-Chari and named the country the "Central African Republic".
Not this:
Boganda was the founder of the MESAN party.[1] He also negotiated for the independence of Oubangui-Chari and named the country the "Central African Republic".
Notice that I've removed the redundant "also". The subsequent "also" is required, though. TONY (talk) 04:03, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I'll start simplifying. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 13:05, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments from The Rambling Man (talk · contribs)
- I don't think the section heading "List of Prime Ministers of the Central African Republic and Central African Empire" is strictly necessary given the nature of the article (i.e. we already know it's a list of heads of government of the CAR etc etc etc) so just "List of Prime Ministers" would suffice.
- Heads of governement, heads of state, Prime Minister - these seem to be used interchangeably, can we be more consistent. I find it a little confusing.
- The Prime Minister is the head of government, while the President is the head of state. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 13:05, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- And this is a list of Prime Ministers only, right? Also, you have the legend "For heads of state with multiple affiliations..." above the table, the table has no heads of state in it, does it? The Rambling Man (talk) 13:06, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, it is only a list of Prime Ministers. Just noticed the legend a few minutes ago, fixed that. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 13:39, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- And this is a list of Prime Ministers only, right? Also, you have the legend "For heads of state with multiple affiliations..." above the table, the table has no heads of state in it, does it? The Rambling Man (talk) 13:06, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The Prime Minister is the head of government, while the President is the head of state. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 13:05, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Any reason why the names are bold?
- I just wanted to draw the readers' attention to names. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 13:05, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- And why is "Prime Minister" repeated in every row (apart from the acting Prime Minister which could be added to the notes column)?
- Alright, removed. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 13:05, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Consider merging the tables. You can add a colspan'ed row for changes of the name of the country. This would then alleviate the repetitive heading rows. Also, getting rid of "Prime Minister" from the name col, squeezing the Entered/Left office columns up, you can make the Notes column wider which will reduce the length of the table. Particularly if you follow Tony's advice on making the notes more note-like.
The Rambling Man (talk) 09:00, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Tables merged, removed "Prime Minister" from name column, width reduced in second and third columns, notes column wider. I'm simplifying the notes, as well. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 13:05, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
I have to disagree with you Rambling Man. A table merged like this one is terrible to look at. Please have another look at List of heads of state of the Central African Republic and Central African Empire. Now tell me, which is clearer? Isn't that what a table is supposed to be? I would really opt for the same layout in both CAR lists, like this:
- Prime Ministers of the Central African Republic (1960–1976)
- Prime Ministers of the Central African Empire (1976–1979)
- Prime Ministers of the Central African Republic (since 1979)
- Please check the colour codes of both lists. In the presidents list, the nonpartisans have a different colour. While you're at it, wikilink "Nonpartisan" in the Bozizé row.
- Done and done. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 21:43, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for clearing up the Civic/Democratic forum issue. I do however think it would be best to leave it out. Apparantly the Democratic Forum has no article here on wp and we aren't told anything about its significance. It's also confusing, not just the similar name but also the fact he founded it in 1990 and became pm in 1992. Why did he abandon the party he founded? In this context it adds only confusion, I would suggest leaving it out or adding relevant information, either in this notes section or by creating an article for the Democratic Forum. Baldrick90 (talk) 20:55, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Yeah, that seems like the best thing to do here. Kalck (2005) only mentions Democratic Forum in passing. There's nothing else written about it. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 21:43, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment
I see that Rambling Man suggested to rename the section to "List of Prime Ministers", but I actually think "Heads of government" would be a better section title; I especially dislike having the words "List of" in a section title. The question that should be asked is whether or not the section is about Prime Ministers (or Heads of government), and if it is, then simply state that, rather than preceding it with "List of".Gary King (talk) 04:15, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]- Heading changed to "Heads of government". Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 12:29, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments by Baldrick90
- It strikes me you use so many French language sources and yet do not claim any knowledge of the language on your userpage. I decided to randomly check out one French link (ref 35) and believe you may not understand it sufficiently. The article says he was 'directeur général' of the UBAC. This does not (necessarily) refer to the BDEAC and BMPC. By the way, the correct spelling would be director-general and not director general. The following sentence tells an interesting fact: Gaombalet was fired (French: limogé - this means breaking up (as in a relationship) and is used here informally and metaphorically) by general and president Kolingba in 1981, just after he became president. Then we are told he worked for the BDEAC in the Republic of the Congo (his function is not mentioned) and he returned to the CAR in the early nineties to 'dirige' (lead, direct) the BMPC (again, we don't know his function, he could be the CEO or just be a member of the executive board, I suggest you leave out the function and just say he lead the BMPC).
- It seems I mistakenly wrote BDEAC instead of UBAC. I've fixed this now. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 15:37, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- If you want any help translating French sources you can always ask me (I learned French in grammar school) but ofcourse it would be best to contact a native speaker.
- Thanks for the offer. Could you verify that the French refs I use actually correspond to my "translations"/interpretations? Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 15:37, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Please have a look at the article on Célestin Gaombalet. It translates 'La Banque de Développement des Etats de l’Afrique Centrale' as 'Development Bank of Central African States'. You translate BDEAC as such: 'Central African States Development Bank'. I think there should be one translation used. I have found the official translation here (see section 'ACRONYMS AND ABBREVIATIONS'). It should be 'Development Bank of Central African States'.
- Alright, fixed. I found my translation on another Wikipedia article. See this. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 15:37, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- His full name is 'Célestin-Leroy Gaombalet'. Your article says 'Le Roi'. I presume you know that translates as 'The King'. You are correct phonetically :-).
- Hmm...that bit of text was in the article before I started working on it. Fixed, though. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 15:37, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Also note that if you use his full name, it should be 'Célestin-Leroy'. That dash is used in most sources referring to him, including a lot of reliable sources such as Amnesty and the website of the European Union. It should be noted that a lot of reliable sources do not include the dash. Célestin Leroy Gaombalet has 1490 google hits, Célestin-Leroy Gaombalet 2040. What do you make of it? Baldrick90 (talk) 15:17, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Well it seems if you search the dash version, you get results which include the non-dash. I will use the dash, I guess. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 15:37, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment
- Please don't open with "This is a complete list of the heads of government of the Central African Republic and Central African Empire." You need to engage the reader, rather than repeat the title of the article
Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 05:52, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Reworded. Good? Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 03:28, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - The image at the top of the article seems unnecessarily large. I suggest adding the upright parameter to the thumbnail specs, as follows: [[Image:Elie Dote.jpg|right|thumb|upright|Former Prime Minister [[Élie Doté]] has served the longest of all Prime Ministers of the Central African Republic (2005–2008).]] --Orlady (talk) 00:25, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by User:The Rambling Man 20:27, 2 July 2008 [28].
I took my time and improve the list. Since I believe it meets all the featured list criteria, I hope this list will get featured.—Chris! ct 00:29, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Some comments (I'll add to this as I look through the article):
- In the second paragraph, is there some way of clarifying that the dates in parentheses are the years when the players were drafted, and not the years those players won the MVP awards? Zagalejo^^^ 03:38, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It seems like the refs formatting is inconsistent. Zagalejo^^^ 04:25, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I fixed that. All refs are now using the cite web template.—Chris! ct 19:59, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support I'm satisfied with it. Zagalejo^^^ 02:55, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment
The bold text if a link is going to be used in it, per WP:BOLDTITLE.Gary King (talk) 04:44, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I readd a link for the NBA in the fourth paragraph. It is pretty far down though. Perhaps it is a good idea to add a new sentence or reword the first sentence to include a link for the NBA.—Chris! ct 20:10, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Note Just wanted to inform all of you that I might be out for the next few days and might not be able to attend to any issues regarding this FLC during that time. Hopefully, editors who are attached to this FLC or the NBA Wikiproject will be able to fix any problems raised by other editors when I am away. I will return to this FLC as soon as I can. Thanks in advance.—Chris! ct 20:05, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment I really don't like that dark yellow colour. Could you use a lighter colour like the scheme used here? As well, it would be great if you could highlight which players won the Rookie of the Year award. Simply have 3 colours, 1 for all stars, 1 for RotYs and 1 for all stars and RotYs. I've got to admit, I really don't like the column layout of the table. It should go Year | Name | Nationality | Former club |NBA team |Everything else similar to the NHL #1 pick page. -- Scorpion0422 19:46, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- First, I changed the color. Then I add several new colors for other awards. I will add RotYs award later when I have time. As for the column layout, I didn't do anything on that because I think the current arrangement is better. For draft info, team name is very important and therefore shouldn't place on the far right.—Chris! ct 01:23, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments from The Rambling Man (talk · contribs)
- Any reason why the school col is far too wide? In fact, quite a few columns are too wide.
- I tweaked the column. —Chris! ct 01:23, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Add the abbreviations PPG etc to the key instead of as footnotes. It makes the table easier to understand without having to flick to footnotes.
- Fixed —Chris! ct 01:23, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- RPG, PPG, APG cols don't sort correctly.
- Fixed —Chris! ct 01:23, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- If you want to include a blank row for 2008 (and personally I wouldn't) then you should at least footnote it with why it's blank.
- Fixed —Chris! ct 01:23, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "The first three players listed below..." they'll only be the first three if you haven't resorted the table.
- Fixed by another editor —Chris! ct 01:29, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- You link NBA in the first sentence and then link National Basketball Association in the last. I'd use the full version in the first sentence with a (NBA) after it and then not link the second instance at all.
- Fixed by another editor —Chris! ct 01:23, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
date
field in the {{cite web}} template should be of the YYYY-MM-DD format so it gets converted correctly and consistently.
- Fixed —Chris! ct 01:23, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Is there a Basketball lists category to which this could be added?
- Fixed —Chris! ct 01:23, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The Rambling Man (talk) 17:31, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
- Move the footnote links next to players names and nationality to the notes column
- Well, that won't be a good idea since the footnote links are used to explain the draft picks and the nationality of that player.—Chris! ct 01:33, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Explain the abbreviations for PPG, RPG and APG in the key section.
- Fixed —Chris! ct 01:23, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 06:15, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
- Please read MOS on spelling out numbers. "6-time winner", etc.
- Fixed —Chris! ct 01:23, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Why is a dictionary word such as "media" linked? See MOS. Generally, avoid linking the names of anglophone countries (I see at least two), and other countries that are sure to be well-known to almost all readers. Your lead is getting very blue.
- Fixed. I also remove several repeated links. —Chris! ct 01:29, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Why "Nat." in the column heading, rather than "Country"? Isn't the space enough for that full word? If not, borrow waste from other columns.
- Fixed. I use "nationality" because that is the word used by the creator. Since "country" and "nationality" are really interchangeable in everyday usage, I don't see the point of changing it around. —Chris! ct 01:29, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Please use sentence case for your column headings, not title case. "College/High school/Former club" is like alphabet soup.
- Fixed —Chris! ct 01:29, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Criterion 6: Can you find a less vomity colour than that bright yellow? I need sunscreen.
- Fixed —Chris! ct 01:29, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Otherwise good. TONY (talk) 09:30, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Coments college, Position, and Selected by columns should not be overly-wikilinked. Link them only the first time they appear.--Gman124 talk 23:49, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Fixed. —Chris! ct 19:04, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- One more color shouldn't be the only indicator for the All-Star. --Gman124 talk 02:42, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't what else I could use to indicate the All-Star. Perhaps an asterisk will work.—Chris! ct 19:04, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I try to add another color or symbol, but that just makes the list more confusing. I think it would be best to stick to the current arrangement.—Chris! ct 19:13, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I think Asterisk would work. --Gman124 talk 19:39, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I try to add another color or symbol, but that just makes the list more confusing. I think it would be best to stick to the current arrangement.—Chris! ct 19:13, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't what else I could use to indicate the All-Star. Perhaps an asterisk will work.—Chris! ct 19:04, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments
- I think the list should be named List of first overall NBA draft picks.
- I will rename it.—Chris! ct 01:57, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The second paragraph bothers me because the years in the bracets could mean draft year or year of the MVP winning.
- Yeah, I mentioned that above. The years refer to the years they were drafted. I think we could just remove them from the lead, because the list is already there to provide that information. Zagalejo^^^ 23:55, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The second paragraph bothers me because the years in the bracets could mean draft year or year of the MVP winning.
- I will remove the years now if it causes confusion.—Chris! ct 01:49, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- In the sentence "Duncan is an American citizen, but is considered an "international" player by the NBA because he is originally from the U.S. Virgin Islands, and not one of the fifty states.", the District of Columbia is also not considered as a state but is also not considered as international so you should some how fix up that sentence.
- Good catch. I was responsible for that phrasing. I've added a mention of Washington, DC. Zagalejo^^^ 23:55, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- In the sentence "The Basketball Association of America became the National Basketball Association after absorbing teams from the National Basketball League in fall 1949.", the last words should be in the fall of 1949.
- I wrote that one, too. I've added the missing words. (I don't think there's anything wrong with "fall 1949", but "the fall of..." seems to be the more common expression, so I'll just go with that.) Zagalejo^^^ 23:55, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I think the Lebron James picture is too big. you should make it to around 150-175px.
- In the sentence "Duncan is an American citizen, but is considered an "international" player by the NBA because he is originally from the U.S. Virgin Islands, and not one of the fifty states.", the District of Columbia is also not considered as a state but is also not considered as international so you should some how fix up that sentence.
- I resized it to 150px.—Chris! ct 01:57, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- In the key, every first word should be capitalized. So "points per game" should be "Points per game".
- Since the list is sortable, I think you should link all of the team and clubs.
- Not sure what you mean, all of them are linked.—Chris! ct 01:57, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Not all the colleges were linked. I've taken care of that, though. Zagalejo^^^ 02:54, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Not sure what you mean, all of them are linked.—Chris! ct 01:57, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- If everything I requested is finished, I'll support.
Annoyomous24 (talk) 23:18, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support Annoyomous24 (talk) 1:06, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
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The list was promoted by User:The Rambling Man 12:05, 2 July 2008 [29].
I think I must thank the FLC contest for getting me involved here. Hopefully, this is the first of many more :p Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 08:04, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment. Could you include the year of the 79th Academy Award in the lead? I couldn't find it anywhere. Thank you. Eklipse (talk) 11:34, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Added. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 19:33, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Why does the table have "|- style="border-bottom:3px solid #CCCCFF""? I find it goes against the layout of a standard wikitable, and just brings a lot of unneeded attention to it. Gary King (talk) 17:33, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Fixed. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 19:33, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments from The Rambling Man (talk · contribs)
- Image in lead has a fragment for a caption so no need for full stop, and if you follow WP:MOS#Images, you should use a minimum of 300px for the lead image.
- "each country is invited by the Academy" - really? Is it an open invitation? In fact, judging by the next sentence there's a select number of countries invited - what dictates this shortlist?
- "Finland's submission" is repeated in one sentence.
Otherwise, pretty faultless from my point of view. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:47, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Fixed. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 19:33, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
- Try to engage the reader by avoiding the repetition of the article title as the first sentence
- I'd like it to be mentioned in the first paragraph that the 79th Awards occurred in 2007.
Otherwise it's all good. -- Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 06:23, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Fixed both. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 06:41, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support The facts about the two "not counted" films are repeated. IMO those aren't interesting enough to warrant mention in the lead and think the footnotes are sufficient. Can you fix the sorting of "Result" so that "Won Academy Award" comes first rather than last? I don't think any of those external links meet WP:EL for this list. Colin°Talk 12:28, 23 June 2008 (UTC) Should Guillermo del Toro be sorted under T rather than D? Colin°Talk 21:46, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Fixed the lead mentions and the sorting and I cut out the ELs. And I think "D" is where del Toro should be sorted because we refer to his surname as "del Toro" (in his article also) and not simply "Toro", although I could be wrong. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 00:24, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment There really are no standards for colouring, but perhaps you should follow the {{award-won}} and {{award-nom}} templates, which use green for the winner and pink for nominees. -- Scorpion0422 22:03, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- On the FLC for the Japanese submission lists, I was originally using {{award-nom}} for the nominees, but another user indicated that pink was a more suitable color for the rejections. I think the present is alright. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 00:24, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Speaking of which, the color for the winner's cell is too similar to the pink used for the non-nominees - any chance of making it more distinctive for the sake of contrast? Girolamo Savonarola (talk) 22:48, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The "Won Academy Award" one? I can't see how yellow/bronze can't be distinguished from pink IMO. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 07:37, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Because they are adjacent colors which start to become indistinguishable when they are pastelized (which lowers contrast), especially when viewed on a monitor with lower brightness. Additionally, it generically wouldn't be a bad idea to have the winner as a non-pastel color, for the sake of extra distinctiveness. Lastly, is there a reason why you're following one color scheme for the List of country's submissions for the... articles and another one for the List of submissions for the Xth Academy Award for... articles? Girolamo Savonarola (talk) 03:47, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I've changed the color for the award winner. And I don't see any color difference between any of the articles I've nominated... Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 05:34, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Because they are adjacent colors which start to become indistinguishable when they are pastelized (which lowers contrast), especially when viewed on a monitor with lower brightness. Additionally, it generically wouldn't be a bad idea to have the winner as a non-pastel color, for the sake of extra distinctiveness. Lastly, is there a reason why you're following one color scheme for the List of country's submissions for the... articles and another one for the List of submissions for the Xth Academy Award for... articles? Girolamo Savonarola (talk) 03:47, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The "Won Academy Award" one? I can't see how yellow/bronze can't be distinguished from pink IMO. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 07:37, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The list was promoted by User:The Rambling Man 12:05, 2 July 2008 [30].
This list is in honour of the 2008 draft, which started today and concludes on Saturday. For those who think this may cause a lack of stability, please note that the first pick was selected earlier and there won't be any changing information. Anyway, the list is fully sourced and most of the concerns will be addressed by me. I will be going away on June 28, so any comments after that date will be addressed by Maxim. -- Scorpion0422 05:38, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Lol, I got drafted. :D Maxim(talk) 12:44, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support Looks pretty good to me Gary King (talk) 06:32, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments from The Rambling Man (talk · contribs)
- Should "entry draft" and "amateur draft" be capitalised as proper nouns? entry draft definitely links to Entry Draft.
- Done.
- Fourth entry in the key says "Player..." but none of the others do. Could just leave it as "Never played.."
- Fixed.
- "Comite des jeunes (Rosemont)" links to a borough of Quebec, not a school etc.
- Fixed.
- And Montreal Jr. B links to Montreal - misleading linkage. Check the others.
- Fixed.
- I would also consider making a key for the league acronyms, especially as CZE really just means Czechoslovakia.
- I was going to, but I'm not sure if it's necessary, since every league has a wikilink.
- Centrally align all league acronyms.
- Done.
- Ext links link looks like it's missing a ).
- Fixed.
- Can the list be added to an NHL lists category?
- Yes it can.
The Rambling Man (talk) 18:28, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for taking a look. -- Scorpion0422 22:07, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Use {{flag}} instead of {{flagicon}} for the flags, for those who have graphics turned off. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 06:21, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done, by Scorpion. Maxim(talk) 15:51, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- why are the Amateur/junior/former club, Position, Selected by, and League column overly-wikilinked? Link them only the first time they appear. Gman124 talk 22:58, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment
- I think List of first overall NHL draft picks sound better.
- "Picks" is not encyclopedic tone, and it may confuse a reader who's not as familiar with sports. Choices is much more clearer.
- Since this list is srtable, I think you should link everything on the list.
- Makes sense if the list is sortable. Done.
- You should delete the link to List of NHL second overall draft choices since it has not been written yet.
- The picture of Sidney Crosby is too big. You should shrink it a little to around 200-250px.
- Done.
- If all of this is done, I'll support.
- I think List of first overall NHL draft picks sound better.
Annoyomous24 (talk) 22:49, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Instead of linking to the NCAA for DiPietro and Murphy, should you link to Hockey East and CCHA respectively like what seems to be the standard across all the draft articles?Roman Hamrlik's league should link to Czechoslovak First Ice Hockey League as the Czech Extraliga was not founded until 1993. Also, you should put "Czech" rather than "CZE" as the pipped link for this. You didn't use "SWE" or "RUS" for the Swedish or Russian leagues.Do we need to have everything wikilinked here? I'm not sure the MOS on this, but it seems to me that linking Goaltender, Defenceman, and Forward each and every time isn't necessary. Same for leagues and teams.- The list is sortable so the "first time" link varies, and having seemingly random links scattered is unsightly and can potentially be a timesink. (12:38, 30 June 2008 (UTC))
According to this, Nacka HK was part of the Elitserien when Sundin was drafted, not HockeyAllsvenskan.Check your disambiguations, there should be no links to dab pages (ie: Stefan, Fleury, Hamrlik, Quebec Remparts) and make sure to have no dios in the article (ie: Houle)I personally think the flag beside Hamrlik should be a Czechoslovakian flag, as that was the nation at the time in 1992. (Use TCH for this in the template)
- Those are all of my concerns with the article, some you may disagree with, but for the most part I think these are some pretty decent requirements. After these are addressed, you have my support! – Nurmsook! (talk) 01:07, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- All else was fixed. Maxim(talk) 12:43, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support All of my concerns have been addressed, you have my support! As for the overlinking, I never even noticed that it was a sortable table...makes perfect sense now! Thanks. – Nurmsook! (talk) 07:35, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The list was promoted by User:The Rambling Man 12:05, 2 July 2008 [31].
This list is based off of List of New York Jets head coaches (a featured list) and List of San Francisco 49ers head coaches (a featured list candidate). Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 21:53, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support This looks good to me. Gary King (talk) 06:08, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Weak OpposeThe first paragraph needs a lot of work and some citations. I understand that teams play eight home games. Many would be confused on whether they are now playing all their games in Toronto. It is not even clear to me whether they will play a home game in Toronto every year going forward. You may want to mention that they formerly played at the War Memorial Stadium (Buffalo) (aka The Rockpile) although I am not sure if other coach lists make mention of current and former stadia.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 16:36, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]- I don't know how that text got garbled. I guess I wasn't thinking straight when I made this edit. Eh, screw it. I'll just remove the entire stadium bit. It's not even included in any of the other head coach lists. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 16:48, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- O.K. Can you find at least one citation for the first paragraph to satisfy my need to see at least one in each paragraph.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 18:21, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I added a ref for the last sentence of the first paragraph. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 20:05, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- O.K. Can you find at least one citation for the first paragraph to satisfy my need to see at least one in each paragraph.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 18:21, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't know how that text got garbled. I guess I wasn't thinking straight when I made this edit. Eh, screw it. I'll just remove the entire stadium bit. It's not even included in any of the other head coach lists. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 16:48, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support My minor problems above have been resolved.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 20:48, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support - Seems to meet all criteria. « Milk's Favorite Cøøkie 21:34, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments from The Rambling Man (talk · contribs)
- "Games Coached ->coached" and "Loses -> Losses" in the key.
- Regular Season ->season.
- Any reason why present is in italics?
- To bring to the reader's attention that Dick Jauron is the current head coach. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 19:03, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I think that's obvious from the word "present" and from the fact he's last on the list and from the fact you have a dedicated paragraph in the lead stating such. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:07, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Alright, fixed. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 19:08, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I've gotta find something to talk about... ;-) The Rambling Man (talk) 19:10, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Alright, fixed. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 19:08, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I think that's obvious from the word "present" and from the fact he's last on the list and from the fact you have a dedicated paragraph in the lead stating such. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:07, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- To bring to the reader's attention that Dick Jauron is the current head coach. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 19:03, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- ref [24] needs
date
.
The Rambling Man (talk) 18:18, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
- The opening sentence doesn't engage the reader as it's simply a repetition of the article title
- Rewritten. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 12:34, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Move the note links in the Term column to the reference column
Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 06:18, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- That's just going to confuse the reader. The notes are positioned to help the reader understand certain coaching circumstances. Moving them to the references column will just make things complicated. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 12:34, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Please recast the opening sentence so that it does not mostly or fully repeat the title of the article. Please note the standard set by Criterion 2 of the featured list criteria, which states that the lead should have "an engaging lead section", and the Bold title and Establish context sections in the styleguide for lead sections. The opening is just where we need to capture readers' attention by contexualising the list, not irritating them with straight repetition of what they've just read.
- Rewritten. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 12:34, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Why upper-case L for loss, in the Key? TONY (talk) 09:21, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- No particular reason. Don't see why it can't be capitalized. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 12:34, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Please ensure the GC, W, L and T columns are all of the same width (for both Season and Playoffs), it looks awful. Why colour the table, if there is already a *? indopug (talk) 11:43, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Added widths. I don't see what the problem was before. The table normally would just have colors, but per WP:ACCESSIBILITY, I've included an asterisk to denote HoF status. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 12:34, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The list was promoted by User:The Rambling Man 12:05, 2 July 2008 [32].
previous FLC (04:12, 1 June 2008)
This is a co-nomination with AndonicO (talk · contribs). The major concern (and the only reason for the oppose I believe) as that this list was different from other "head coaches" lists. Anyways, that concern has now been resolved, and I believe its ready for another shot. Thanks in advance for the comments. « Milk's Favorite Cøøkie 21:20, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support (as nom) « Milk's Favorite Cøøkie 19:01, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't believe we're allowed to support ourselves (at least, we aren't on FAC...). · AndonicO Engage. 19:07, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment "See also" goes before "References" per WP:LAYOUT. Gary King (talk) 06:04, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Fixed. · AndonicO Engage. 19:29, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments from The Rambling Man (talk · contribs)
- Lead image can be up to 300px according to WP:MOS#Images so have a fiddle to see what looks best.
- Isn't it better to leave the size unspecified, so that user preferences can be displayed? · AndonicO Engage. 01:17, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Well it depends - the manual of style recommends just the lead image to be at least 300px. With other images yes, I agree, use
thumb
only (andupright
for portrait images). The Rambling Man (talk) 06:12, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Well it depends - the manual of style recommends just the lead image to be at least 300px. With other images yes, I agree, use
- Isn't it better to leave the size unspecified, so that user preferences can be displayed? · AndonicO Engage. 01:17, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Five paragraphs in the lead is too much - WP:LEAD would probably recommend three, max, and it looks relatively easy to me for you to merge them.
- Done. · AndonicO Engage. 01:17, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "There have been a total of six Red Wings..." a bit of redundancy here. Why not just "Six Red Wings..."?
- Done. · AndonicO Engage. 01:17, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Leading zero or no leading zero for your %? Be consistent either way.
- Done; are the percentages usually cited as decimals? Because 0.8% is pretty low... shouldn't that be written as 80%? · AndonicO Engage. 01:17, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I think you'll find if you read the WP:MOS, decimal numbers should take a leading zero (e.g. 0.8 rather than .8) but it does make an exception for sporting percentages where your 80% would normally be written .800. Hope that makes sense. The Rambling Man (talk) 06:56, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done; are the percentages usually cited as decimals? Because 0.8% is pretty low... shouldn't that be written as 80%? · AndonicO Engage. 01:17, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I'd reorder the citations numerically [1][4] unless you have a specific reason for [4] being more important.
- Done. · AndonicO Engage. 01:17, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "Scotty Bowman has also won it twice, but he was the coach of the Montreal Canadiens when he won this award for the first time" - not keen on the English here.
- Done. · AndonicO Engage. 01:17, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "Games coached" and "Losses" in the key.
- Done. · AndonicO Engage. 01:17, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- No spaces between the en-dash and the W/L, repeat for table.
- Is this what you mean? · AndonicO Engage. 01:17, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Remove spaces between years and en-dash per WP:DASH.
- Done. · AndonicO Engage. 01:17, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Regular season (not Season).
- Done. · AndonicO Engage. 01:17, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- No need to relink Adams.
- Done; left a re-link in the table. · AndonicO Engage. 01:17, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Why is "Detroit Cougars/Detroit Falcons" section combined?
- I've got no idea about that, so I'll leave it to MFC. · AndonicO Engage. 01:17, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The Detroit Falcons only lasted two years. And they had the same coach (Adams) through the Cougars, and the Falcons. I really can't think of a useful reason to split it. « Milk's Favorite Cøøkie 01:23, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm not sure I agree - the reason to split it is to clarify that the franchise existed in three guises. So you'd only have two extra rows to add in if it was only one coach throughout. It would make it clearer to the non-experts and also to the experts if AndonicO's comment is anything to go by! The Rambling Man (talk) 06:55, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The Detroit Falcons only lasted two years. And they had the same coach (Adams) through the Cougars, and the Falcons. I really can't think of a useful reason to split it. « Milk's Favorite Cøøkie 01:23, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I've got no idea about that, so I'll leave it to MFC. · AndonicO Engage. 01:17, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The Rambling Man (talk) 17:41, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Okay then - done. « Milk's Favorite Cøøkie 15:29, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support, with one comment. Change the "References" section to "Notes". Other than that I can't see anything to complain about. Cheers, Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 15:24, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Ditto with Julian. Can't find anything to comment on. Everything looks in order and meets the criteria. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 17:34, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- That's because on the last FLC, you only had one reason to oppose ;) « Milk's Favorite Cøøkie 17:35, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support Nice work, the list looks great. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 22:54, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment—Can you please change the colouring of the separators/headers of the Cougars/Falcons/Wings? The dark red, with the bright yellow hurts my eyes. Maxim(talk) 14:33, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose—fails Cr. 6. It does not make good use of colours. Maxim(talk) 21:59, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Fixed... « Milk's Favorite Cøøkie 22:24, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- What do you think of the team colours? Maxim(talk) 22:31, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Really nice, thanks. « Milk's Favorite Cøøkie 22:39, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- What do you think of the team colours? Maxim(talk) 22:31, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Fixed... « Milk's Favorite Cøøkie 22:24, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose—fails Cr. 6. It does not make good use of colours. Maxim(talk) 21:59, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments
- "There have been 27 head coaches in franchise history" should be "There have been 27 head coaches in their franchise history"
- What's with the picture in the key?
- I think the year should be linked in the list including the term and the year of the award.
- Where are the shootout loses?
- The subtitles in the list should be the same colors as the colors of the Detroit Red Wings.
- If all of these are finished, I'll support.
Annoyomous24 (talk) (talk) 23:02, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by User:Gimmetrow 12:30, 2 July 2008 [33].
Worked on this article in my sandbox then moved it. There aren't any pictures for the coaches becauseI could not find any images uploaded on Wikimedia. --Gman124 talk 16:16, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
- Use en dashes for year ranges (in the lead—it looks like they are properly applied in the table) per WP:DASHY
- Missing a period in "season[2]"?Y
Gary King (talk) 18:13, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Force a TOC with Help:TOC Done
- Otherwise, Support
Gary King (talk) 18:00, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments from The Rambling Man (talk · contribs)
- Confusing with Dallas Chapparels mentioned first - mention Spurs first and say something along the lines of "...and former franchise incarnation..." (or similar)Y
- "of the original version of the " - reads odd to me. Why not something like "...who played in the ..."?Y
- "...in Dallas. In fact, ..." a little chatty. Drop the "In fact" and merge the sentences.Y
- Order citations numerically if possible.
- They are ordered like that automatically. --Gman124 talk 13:43, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- No, you can reorder the ref names. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:14, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done --Gman124 talk 15:25, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- No, you can reorder the ref names. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:14, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- They are ordered like that automatically. --Gman124 talk 13:43, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Expand, link and then place (NBA) after the first use of National Basketball Association.Y
- The lead contains virtually nothing about the head coaches (except Popovich). It needs to focus on the men, not the franchise.Y
- Surely "Loses" should be "Losses"?Y
- "Regular Season" can just be "Regular season" and the W &ndash L should lose the spaces in the table.Y
- No-one elected to the BHOF so axe it from the key.Y
- 2002-03 needs en-dash (in the coach of the year).Y
- present doesn't need to be in italics.Y
The Rambling Man (talk) 12:38, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
- I reworked the first two sentences slightly to say what the Spurs do, and to avoid repetition of the Dallas Chaparrals.
- "The team suffered from poor attendance and general disinterest in Dallas;" The team was disinterested in Dallas, or the Dallas people were disinterested in the team?Y
- "The team suffered from poor attendance and general disinterest in Dallas; therefore, during the 1970–71 season, the name "Dallas" was dropped in favor of "Texas" and an attempt was made to make the team a regional one, but this proved a failure and the team returned full-time to Dallas in time for the 1971–72 season." Very long sentence. Should be broken into twoY
- "and were coached by Gregg Popovich." No need for "and were"Y
- "were coached by Gregg Popovich.", "2007 NBA Finals under Popovich.[1] Popovich is the franchise's all-time leader", "Popovich won the NBA Coach of the Year" Too many "Popovich"s. Perhaps some could be simply "he"Y
- "and Gregg Popovich spent their entire coaching career with the Spurs." No need for his first name here.Y
- Did you try Flickr for some free-use pics?
- I have never used that and also don't know what that is. --Gman124 talk 18:26, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- It's a web-based image repository where some contributors license their images in a way that's compatible with upload and use on Wikipedia. Have a look at flickr.com The Rambling Man (talk) 18:29, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I have never used that and also don't know what that is. --Gman124 talk 18:26, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 23:32, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- So after I find an image, do I have to upload it to wikipedia? and what license would that be? --Gman124 talk 18:37, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- It would be the same licence the picture has at Flickr. See Wikipedia:Upload/Flickr. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 22:08, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I looked at Flickr and can't find any free images. --Gman124 talk 18:46, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done --Gman124 talk 00:16, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
- All the refs links at the end of the lead look a bit odd, could they be placed anywhere else?
- They are for the last sentence, so I don't know where you would want me to move those. --Gman124 (talk) 23:28, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Couldn't the years in the "Term" column be linked?
- Do you mean like link to the season pages, because all season pages for Spurs don't exist yet, I will once they do. --Gman124 (talk) 23:28, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "San Antonio Spurs National Basketball Association" is there a word missing here?Y
- No image.
- as far as I know, there isn't any free images for use on Wikimedia projects. --Gman124 (talk) 23:28, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done --Gman124 talk 00:18, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- as far as I know, there isn't any free images for use on Wikimedia projects. --Gman124 (talk) 23:28, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Buc (talk) 07:39, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose- Basketball-reference is your only source. You need at least one more general reference. We can't rely on just one reference.Y
- That nba page is one loooong page, can't you find another shorter source?--Crzycheetah 22:53, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- What do the refs in the "references" column give to this list? All the info in the table is provided by the general reference, so why are there individual references from the same website? At least provide refs from a different website.
- added one ref for Larry Brown and one for Popovich --Gman124 talk 22:22, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Why did you add more? I was actually saying to remove the older ones because they don't give more info than the general reference.--Crzycheetah 22:53, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done --Gman124 talk 14:01, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Why did you add more? I was actually saying to remove the older ones because they don't give more info than the general reference.--Crzycheetah 22:53, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- added one ref for Larry Brown and one for Popovich --Gman124 talk 22:22, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Ref#13 should be note [a].Y
- Basketball-reference is your only source. You need at least one more general reference. We can't rely on just one reference.Y
--Crzycheetah 17:50, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I think the term years should be pipe-linked to the seasons because some people believe that 1996, for instance, is the 1995-96 season while in reality, it is the 1996-97 season. The links are needed to avoid this confusion.--Crzycheetah 07:24, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done added links to terms. --Gman124 talk 16:53, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support--Crzycheetah 03:10, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done added links to terms. --Gman124 talk 16:53, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I think the term years should be pipe-linked to the seasons because some people believe that 1996, for instance, is the 1995-96 season while in reality, it is the 1996-97 season. The links are needed to avoid this confusion.--Crzycheetah 07:24, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments
- You should find a picture somewhere to put up on the list.
- "The franchise won their first NBA championship as the in the 1999 NBA Finals coached by Gregg Popovich." should be "The franchise won their first NBA championship in the 1999 NBA Finals while being coached by Gregg Popovich."Y
- In the sentence, "He is the franchise's all-time leader in both regular season and playoff games coached and wins.", I think "He" should be "Popovich".Y
- You should link "2002–03 season".Y
- In the sentence, " Larry Brown is the only member of the franchise that has been inducted into the Basketball Hall of Fame as coach.", the last words should be "as a coach."Y
- In the sentence, "Cliff Hagan, Max Williams, Bill Blakely, Dave Brown, Morris McHone, Jerry Tarkanian and Popovich spent their entire coaching career with the Spurs.", the last words should be "spent their entire coaching careers with the Spurs."Y
- "Games Coached" should be "Games coached".Y
- If all is finished, I'll support.Y
Annoyomous24 (talk) 23:30, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by User:The Rambling Man 16:40, 1 July 2008 [34].
I'm nominating this list for featured list candidacy as I believe this list meets all the criteria, a list similar to this List of Masters Tournament champions has already passed feature status and this list is similar in style. Thanks in advance or your comments NapHit (talk) 17:39, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments There's a few accessibility issues: information shouldn't be described only by images (the flag icons) or colors (the amateur/playoff things). Some sort of text-based equivalent is needed. But, that doesn't necessarily mean you have to get rid of the flag icons and the colors, but by themselves they aren't enough. Also, the year column should be centered. Also, it would be good to separate footnotes and citations into separate sections.Drewcifer (talk) 18:05, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- There is text for the colours which indicate playoffs, every colour has an accompanying footnote. I'm opposed to the idea of using the text for flags, as its quite clear by the flag what country it is and many other lists such as List of UEFA Cup winning managers have used this format and passed featured list status. NapHit (talk) 18:38, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Adding text is encouraged for accessibility reasons, per WP:ACCESS, where in some cases Wikipedia articles are read without images (such as for mobile devices). Gary King (talk) 18:46, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Ok I've fixed the flags they now all have the three letter after the flags. NapHit (talk) 16:19, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Looks good. Also take a look at the other issues I brought up, since those have yet to be addressed as far as I can tell.. Drewcifer (talk) 21:05, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done it all now I think NapHit (talk) 17:22, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Looks good. Also take a look at the other issues I brought up, since those have yet to be addressed as far as I can tell.. Drewcifer (talk) 21:05, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Ok I've fixed the flags they now all have the three letter after the flags. NapHit (talk) 16:19, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Adding text is encouraged for accessibility reasons, per WP:ACCESS, where in some cases Wikipedia articles are read without images (such as for mobile devices). Gary King (talk) 18:46, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support Looks great. Drewcifer (talk) 19:17, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Use something like {{flag|USA}} to show some text. Gary King (talk) 18:24, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments from The Rambling Man (talk · contribs)
- You can make the lead image bigger (as long as the resolution supports it) per WP:MOS#Images - it encourages lead images to be at least 300px (I think 250px in this case as the image isn't that big).
- Try a more imaginative lead sentence than saying "This is a [TITLE OF LIST]".
- "Tiger Woods holds the distinction of being the most strokes under par for 72 holes. He was 12 strokes under par (-12) when he won in 2000.[6]" consider merging these two sentences.
- "(n/a) = Information not available" looks odd as it's bigger than the rest of the legend. Also, why is not available in italics? (n/a) isn't...
- You need to explain E for even par.
- I see it in ref 7 (explanation of E), but you need a space before the E.
- ref 28 appears to be missing a full stop.
The Rambling Man (talk) 07:30, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I've fixed everything you mentioned except the image size which balloons in size when I put 250px in instead of upright. NapHit (talk) 16:07, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments Just a couple for now.
- Remove "The following is a list of U.S. Open (golf) champions." which simply repeats the article title, and open with something that engages the reader.
- done NapHit (talk) 13:22, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- besides the salmon, blue and green shaded cells, you need some kind of marker to identify, per WP:ACCESS. Asterisks, daggers and carets would be fine.
- done NapHit (talk) 13:20, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 05:48, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by User:The Rambling Man 16:40, 1 July 2008 [35].
Hello, another Victoria Cross recipients list. This is similar to the featured lists List of Victoria Cross recipients of the Royal Navy and List of Victoria Cross recipients of the Indian Army. It is comprehensive, it works (sorting all sorted), it is referenced and it as pictures. As such, I feel it meets all the criteria, I hope you agree. Thanks. Woody (talk) 19:13, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Use en dashes for page ranges in the references per WP:DASH. Gary King (talk) 21:20, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Fixed thanks. Woody (talk) 21:30, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
More comments:
- Force a TOC please, so people don't have to scroll down to get to the References. Help:TOC will help you with that.
- "1857-02-24." – I assume this is the publication date in the references. If so, wiklink it, otherwise, some people might not recognize that this is a date.
- "Chapter 8 pp.68–90" – use a semicolon as a separator before the page, especially if you are going to do that with the previous reference
Gary King (talk) 21:02, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I have fixed the refs, though I haven't added the __FORCETOC__ as frankly, to me, it looks stupid. There are only two sections to this; Recipients and References and the TOC becomes slipped in between the Lead and the
==Recipients==
Do you feel this is absolutely neccessary? Woody (talk) 21:45, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]- Yes; its usefulness outweighs its aesthetic effect. I usually strongly recommend adding it if the article is long enough to require that I scroll; it provides a quick glimpse as to what the article contains. For instance, if I visit this list, and am curious to know if there is a See Also section because I'd like to see similar topics, how would I know – without scrolling to the bottom? The TOC will tell me. Gary King (talk) 22:33, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- You think people find it hard to scroll to the bottom? See also sections aren't a prerequisite for FA, indeed, they are seen as topics that should be expanded upon in the text. If you want similar topics, go to the navbox which isn't in the TOC. In fact, the recipients heading isn't actually neccessary so all it would be is a hyperlink to the references section. As far as I am aware, it is limited to three sub-headings for a reason. This isn't an article, it starts off with list of... so to the perceptive reader, they can get a quick glimpse of what it contains. It is personal preference as far as I am concerned. Perhaps a note on WT:FLC to gauge opinion? Woody (talk) 23:18, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes; its usefulness outweighs its aesthetic effect. I usually strongly recommend adding it if the article is long enough to require that I scroll; it provides a quick glimpse as to what the article contains. For instance, if I visit this list, and am curious to know if there is a See Also section because I'd like to see similar topics, how would I know – without scrolling to the bottom? The TOC will tell me. Gary King (talk) 22:33, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I have fixed the refs, though I haven't added the __FORCETOC__ as frankly, to me, it looks stupid. There are only two sections to this; Recipients and References and the TOC becomes slipped in between the Lead and the
- Support This looks good now. Gary King (talk) 07:42, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments from The Rambling Man (talk · contribs)
- WP:MOS#Images recommends lead images be no smaller than 300px so feel free to force the Sevastopol picture up a bit.
- The Crimea War page says it started in October 1853 (or am I missing something?)
- "large scale" should probably be "large-scale".
- "sale of commissions" forgive my utter ignorance but I don't know what this means at all. Can you expand on it a touch for non-experts?
- Anything special about recipients who had multiple dates of action?
- I probably said it before and you doubtless gave me a good answer but you could include a few portraits of the recipients down the right hand side of the table, just to make it aesthetically more pleasing.
- Sebastopol links to a disambiguation page.
- Balaclava links to the ski-mask.
- For George Strong, why is individual year linked?
That's it from me. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:58, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Fixed the image, fixed large-scale, Sebastapol, Balaclava and Strong link. Does the addition of the wikilinked Sale of commissions assuage your concerns?
- In terms of the start date of the Crimean War, Britain and France declared war on Russia on 28 March 1854. As with any conflict the preceding events and skirmishes are seen by some as part of the War, not by others. On the British side, 1854 is seen as the start date. See Talk:World War II for a lengthy argument on the start dates of wars.
- In terms of multiple dates, special in that they were recognised for multiple acts of bravery, not that uncommon in the early (first 40 years) of the VC. I have added links to their gazette entries.
- Images: We have been through this before ;) If images were placed on some of the more cramped VC articles, then they would get very cramped at lower resolutions. When I go down in resolution, there is simply no room to put them in other articles. With this article, I don't get that problem, but, there is a shortage of pictures for Crimean War recipients. Woody (talk) 21:43, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments left on talkpage
- Notes left on Talk:List of Crimean War Victoria Cross recipients by User:Anthony Staunton. Woody (talk) 23:37, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support Good work as normal, and the previosu queries seem to have been addressed. David Underdown (talk) 11:08, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by User:The Rambling Man 16:40, 1 July 2008 [36].
Self-nom: I greatly expanded and worked on this list, and believe it meets the criteria. RedThunder 20:48, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
- Use en dashes per WP:DASH for numerical ranges such as "1908-present" and "1901-1907".
- I don't think any of the years need to be linked. They don't add much more for the reader to help understand the article, and per MOS:UNLINKYEARS.
- Unbold all that bold in the lead. Perhaps bold "team captains for the Boston Red Sox" but remove any links in all bold text, per WP:LEAD.
- "as the Sox.[2]" – remove italics, and change to "as "the Sox".[2]"
Otherwise, Support.
Gary King (talk) 17:56, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments from The Rambling Man (talk · contribs)
- "From 1912 to the present, the Red Sox have played in Fenway Park" - beforehand (i.e. from the start of this list?)
- "Most fans simply refer to them as the Sox." - prove it, or else it's WP:OR.
- "This role has been particularly important during eras and situations in which managers and coaches have been precluded by the rules from interacting with players on the field while the game is in progress." - again, prove it. Sounds good but needs citation.
- Gaps in captains from 1923 to 1940, 1942 to 1966, 1967 to 1969, 1989 to 2005... needs explanation otherwise the list looks far from complete.
- Dick Hoblitzel caption needs no period as it's a fragment.
- Ref 16 has a spare period.
That's ma lot. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:02, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Perhaps you could add explanations about why there were several long periods where there was no captain. Also, you should add at least one reliable source list of captains. The sources prove that those individuals were captains, but they don't prove that there wasn't anyone else, which is why a list source would be great. -- Scorpion0422 22:04, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Wagner and Yastrzemski should be in different rows for each time they captained.
- Authors for references 9 and 16 please
- Reference 13 is a footnote
Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 21:54, 22 June 2008 (UTC) Comments[reply]
- What does the opening sentence offer? "The following is a list of team captains for the Boston Red Sox American League franchise". We can gather this information from the article's title
- Find a way to engage the reader, other than "The following is a list of team captains for the Boston Red Sox". Articles don't begin with "The following is an article about blue iguanas."
- An explanation and references for why there are no captains in the periods when there aren't. Right now it could be that you don't know and put that there as an easy way to get around it.
- Apologies, I didn't see that ref 6 covers everything. You can remove it if you want! Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 15:40, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- This shows the average reader that everything is covered with sources, contrary to what some believe about Wikipedia, so I think I will keep it there. RedThunder 16:02, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Apologies, I didn't see that ref 6 covers everything. You can remove it if you want! Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 15:40, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The New York Times, Boston Herald and Boston Globe are publications, so they should be italicized in the references. And wikilinked.
- Ref 16 still needs doing. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 15:40, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 15:02, 29 June 2008 (UTC) Comment[reply]
- How and why were there times when they had no captain? Buc (talk) 07:45, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- There were periods of time where there was no captian awarded on the team, but no source says why. The book only says "no captain period of time. RedThunder 21:44, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The "this is a comprehensive list" thing is bad. Don't force the bolded title thing. Drewcifer (talk) 16:31, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Done RedThunder 21:44, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments
- Why say no captain in 1923 when you have two in the table that captained in 1923? Same for '42 and '69.
- Carl Yastrzemski row is repeated.
- what about 1984?
- I know you've sourced the lack of captains but it needs to be explained in the lead as well - it's unusual. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:40, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment How did Harry Hooper become captain when he wasn't even active? Annoyomous24 (talk) 22:16, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments
- In the sentence, "They are a member and current champions of both the Major League Baseball’s (MLB) American League Eastern Division and of the American League (AL).", They are a member shouls be They are members.
- This list should be names List of Boston Red Sox captains.
- You should divide the captains from the Boston Americans by putting Boston Americans above the captains from the Boston Americans and Boston Red Sox below the captains from the Boston Americans.
- If all of that is finished, I'll support. Annoyomous24 (talk) 22:27, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support - Well done! Annoyomous24 (talk) 22:40, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Repeat comment
- What happened in 1984? No captain? It needs noting.
- "No captain 1924–1940[6]" but then the next row says Foxx started in 1940...
- Same for "No captain 1990–2005[6]".
- Clear these up and I'm done. The Rambling Man (talk) 06:58, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by User:The Rambling Man 07:52, 1 July 2008 [37].
previous FLC (04:49, 30 May 2008)
Renomination (self nomination): I believe I have addressed all the concerns of the previous FLC , which were mainly referencing issues, visual appearance issues, and thoroughness of some explanations. The only exception is that Crzycheetah still experiences a long scroll bar due to some templates (which have been identified, but there's no work around that I know of). I've contacted the author of the templates, and had no reply from him in a month. I've contacted the Village pump and no one even gave a comment. I've tried multiple things and none of them worked. Since this is IMO, a minor visual annoyance that seems to be exclusive to Crzycheetah (I tried at least 10 different computers with different OS and different browsers), and that I gave it my best try, I am resubmitting the list of baryons. Headbomb {ταλκ – WP Physics: PotW} 03:05, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
- That is one really long signature you have (over a dozen lines!)
Remove bold from linked text or links from bold text per WP:LEAD.
Gary King (talk) 16:05, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Reply to User:Gary King:
- But the bold is there because of WP:LEAD...
- Yeah I noticed my sig was incredibly massive. I'm trying to find a better way to do things. Headbomb16:17, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
More specifically, per WP:BOLDTITLE, "Avoid links in the bold title words." Gary King (talk) 16:24, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support This article looks good now. Gary King (talk) 01:16, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments from The Rambling Man (talk · contribs)
Any reason why triquarks is in italics? Seems unique."Spin, orbital angular momentum , and total angular momentum" remove space before the second comma.Refs [4] and [5] need to be the other side of the full stop.First image in isospin section has a full stop in the caption - not needed as it's a fragment."this wasn't known" was not - avoid contractions."anti-quark" or "anti quark" - consistency required.Remove spaces between Particle name and reference in the table.Use proper notes in the table rather than your own version."The specific values of the name hasn't been decided yet. Will probably end up to something close to Σb(5810)" avoid contractions, second sentence should be written as English, add a full stop at the end and avoid phrases like "end up to something close to..." - non-encyclopaedic."Some controversy exists about this data. See references" Specifically which references?"Charmed Theta" should be "charmed Theta" for consistency with the rest of the table.For web references, best to use {{cite web}} and fill in as many parameters as possible, such asaccessdate
,author
,title
etc.First and last non-specific references appear to use a hyphen to separate page ranges (if that's what they are) rather than the en-dash.Further reading can also use the {{cite web}} template.Isn't category:Particle physics a sub-category of category:Physics? If so you can axe the latter cat.
The Rambling Man (talk) 07:06, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I've implemented most of them now.
- Any idea about how to handles notes automatically? If I use <ref> tags, they get mixed up with the references, and I really want them to be immediately under the table.
- About {{cite web}} for the web references... it's already used...?
- I'll implement {{cite web}} for the further readings section later today. Headbomb {ταλκ – WP Physics: PotW} 15:29, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I tried using {{citeweb}}, but I found it made things kinda ugly. Plus it's kinda misleading to use {{citeweb}} since it's not a citation. I hope you don't mind, and if you do mind, then check the other featured lists. I tried 10 and I haven't seen one that used {{citeweb}} for external links.Headbomb {ταλκ – WP Physics: PotW} 14:46, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Hmm, notes. Yeah, I'll go dig up an example. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:37, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Here you go - List of Governors of Ohio shows how it's done. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:40, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- <ref name=PDGProton>Yao et al. (2006): [http://pdg.lbl.gov/2007/listings/s016.pdf Particle listings—Proton]</ref> doesn't look like it's using the template to me...! The Rambling Man (talk) 15:37, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I'll look into the List of Governors of Ohio later today.
- These refs were done like this on purpose. The reason is all these refs are actually the same document, but the Particle Data Group chopped it up in these sections for the online version so you don't have to download a 1200 page PDF everytime. The "true" ref is Yao et al. (2006) (with the full ref given below). The link is given as a convenience, not as a "citation". Dunno if that made sense.
- Headbomb {ταλκ – WP Physics: PotW} 15:56, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Okay, understood. Not a huge deal, just a little confusing. You could manually add accessdate style text to make it appear like a cite web...? The Rambling Man (talk) 15:59, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- * Yeah, I guess I could. I'll think of something. Again that'll happen later today.
I also noticed that <ref name=ParticlePhysicsOverview>{{cite web |url=http://filer.case.edu/sjr16/advanced/extras_particlephys.html |title=Physics Particle Overview — Baryons|accessdate= 2008-04-20}}</ref> probably needs to be reformated into something cuter for the short ref version, and put in the "full reference" section. Headbomb {ταλκ – WP Physics: PotW} 16:11, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- * Yeah, I guess I could. I'll think of something. Again that'll happen later today.
I've addressed everything you've listed. Hopefully this was everything, but if you have anything else that makes you iffy about placing a bold support, someone on this page, go ahead and mention it. Headbomb {ταλκ – WP Physics: PotW} 15:04, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Very nice list! Some minor things:
In the parity section you write the wavefunction as |psi(x)> but the wavefunction is, of course, the complex number <x|psi>, which you should call psi(x). If you consider the given function of x as an element of Hilbert space then you could still denote that function by a Dirac ket, but then the argument x should not be used in the ket (an argument in the ket, like a time variable, means that for every value of that argument you have some different element of Hilber space). So, I would just replace the Dirac ket by psi(x).
It would be nice if you could show how isospin symmetry of strong interactions explains certain branching ratios in strong decays. So, you give an example of some particle X that decays into another particle Y. You apply a ladder operator on both sides and then X becomes some other particle but Y becomes some linear combination of two other particles, the absolute value squares of the amplitudes are the relative decay probabilities. This kind of argument is very easy to follow for people who know only the very basics of quantum mechanics but haven't seen any complicated particle physics stuff yet. Count Iblis (talk) 18:25, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- You're right about the ket thing, and I've changed it. It was an abuse of notation on my part (bad Headbomb, bad baaaaaaad Headbomb).
- As for the isospin symmetry explaining the branching ratios, I don't know anything about that. I've fiddled around with the ladder operators, but only to check if my wavefunctions were consistent, and to "crack" what the hell was isospin. I've been thinking of adding a decay section, but I think that would be more appropriate for an article on decay, or perhaps for the baryon article (which needs a lot of work), as that is not required to make sense of the list of baryons.
- Headbomb {ταλκ – WP Physics: PotW} 19:22, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I really don't want to comment much on this one because I feel that to support or oppose something that is far beyond my comprehension is unfair. However, the opening sentence, "This is a list of known and predicted baryons." is rather uninspiring. Something more engaging should be used to interest the reader, rather than a copy of the article title. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 05:42, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Well I wrote it with non-experts in mind. Two months ago I didn't know one thing about baryons other than there were made of "three quarks". I wrote the list as a way to understand what there were, what made them tick etc... Being a n00b at baryons allowed me to write the explanations from the perspective of a guy who didn't "get it" until a minute ago, so can see why someone is confused by the usual explanations. I can't say that you'll get everything in a quick read, but you'll certainly "get it" a lot more than if you read any of the reference provided. If I did my job right, you should never feel lost, even in a quick read, and while you might not "get" why something is important (parity comes to mind, since it's just something that some info about the shape of the wavefunction), sitting there and reading things carefully should make nod along the way, rather than pull your hair and wonder if I'm speaking in Swahili. It's surprisingly not that complicated and I'm really pissed at the authors of particle physics textbooks to explain things in ways that are completely unhelpful which make it sound much more complicated than it really is.I've had the list reviewed by many particles physicists (at least 4), both on wiki and outside of wiki, so I wouldn't be too worried about factual accuracy if I were you. I can guarantee you the lists themselves are complete, accurate, and up to date as I took great care to find a reference for absolutely everything that is written in those lists. Headbomb {ταλκ – WP Physics: PotW} 06:46, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- OK. Well it's 12.30am right now so I don't want to read it while I'm feeling tired! I'll do it in the morning after some sleep! :) Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 07:23, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Cool beans. If you come up with a better intro line, don't be afraid to mention it. Headbomb {ταλκ – WP Physics: PotW} 07:29, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- You could just axe the first sentence entirely. It adds virtually nothing that isn't in the title of the list and in the remainder of the lead. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:44, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Alright, it's slashed. Not sure it's my preferred version of things, but I can live with it. Headbomb {ταλκ – WP Physics: PotW} 11:43, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Sentence is back, but is "detached" from the lead. This should make all of us happier than a kid in candyland. Headbomb {ταλκ – WP Physics: PotW} 14:47, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by User:The Rambling Man 07:52, 1 July 2008 [38].
This is the discography of British rock group Kaiser Chiefs. I am nominating this list because I believe it to be complete and well referenced. -- Underneath-it-All (talk) 17:23, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Disambiguate the link "War Child". Gary King (talk) 18:29, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done -- Underneath-it-All (talk) 18:51, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments - a well put together list though, the chart positions have no references to reliable sources, also the release of the DVD, and the notes in the EP section cannot be verified as they too do not have references to reliable sources.--SRX--LatinoHeat 21:18, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Fixed. -- Underneath-it-All (talk) 03:27, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Further Comments - Looks more verifiable, but the Video album needs a ref to a reliable source.--SRX--LatinoHeat 14:11, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Any details/information about the DVD release can be found in the general references section. -- Underneath-it-All (talk) 03:02, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Further Comments - Looks more verifiable, but the Video album needs a ref to a reliable source.--SRX--LatinoHeat 14:11, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Fixed. -- Underneath-it-All (talk) 03:27, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "one music DVD on B-Unique Records." Why are you in particular pointing out the label this was released on? Perhaps this should read video album instead.
- "Eil.com" is not a reliable source.
- "Contained b-sides, live recordings and an exclusive remix." Not a necessary piece of information.
- "Contained a documentary, live performances and music videos." Weird tense, fragment sentence (no f stop required) - Perhaps this note isn't neccessary.
- Instead of having the title "DVDs", have "Videos". This would make more sense, as why would any thing below the title "DVDs" not be in the DVD format, as you have noted.
- You say "discography of the Kaiser Chiefs", but then you say "Kaiser Chiefs are currently recording..." Where is the "the". Consistency?
That's me. Tenacious D Fan (talk) 12:06, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I think I've added all your comments into the article. Thanks for your suggestions. -- Underneath-it-All (talk) 13:55, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Music video directors need reliable sources.
- Done. All the video directors are referenced using their official websites or their production company sites. -- Underneath-it-All (talk) 16:23, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Fantastic work so far. Tenacious D Fan (talk) 15:06, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment
- Keep all the Title columns of the same width.
- Can you expand the lead? See: The Strokes discography or The Libertines discography. indopug (talk) 15:47, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Expanded lead. Hopefully I got everything. -- Underneath-it-All (talk) 16:55, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Your dates have to be in the [[1 January]] [[2008]] format throughout
- What about the Misc. section title width? For consistency name the Song column in misc and music video to Title.
- I think remove applying a width to the Year columns as they have the same widths as the individual years. Remove align center too for the years too casuse they get kinda redundant. indopug (talk) 03:03, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Again, hopefully I fixed everything. All the title columns are the same width now. -- Underneath-it-All (talk) 04:40, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm nervy about using the band's own site for sales information. Self-published sources are discouraged and there is clear personal interests involved.
- I found another website that verifies the sales from their official website. -- Underneath-it-All (talk) 02:10, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Is Acharts.us reliable?
- I believe it to be. I have checked their charts against charts published from other official websites and they all appear to be correct. Charts from the UK cannot be found online elsewhere (unless you use everyHit.com). -- Underneath-it-All (talk) 02:10, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- You might want to use Webcite on the band's official site etc. These often change without warning. indopug (talk) 10:01, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Sorry, I don't think contactmusic is accepted as a reliable source. indopug (talk) 02:55, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Again, hopefully I fixed everything. All the title columns are the same width now. -- Underneath-it-All (talk) 04:40, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I'll have to remove it then because I cannot find another "reliable" source to support the sales. -- Underneath-it-All (talk) 15:07, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I have found an article from The Times which contains the album's sales in the UK. I have used this to replace world sales because another reliable source cannot be found. -- Underneath-it-All (talk) 15:15, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Expanded lead. Hopefully I got everything. -- Underneath-it-All (talk) 16:55, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support Looks very good! Drewcifer (talk) 02:06, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks! -- Underneath-it-All (talk) 05:05, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments Good work so far. A few suggestions:
- I highly recommend redoing the citations using citation templates, since a few of them seem off format-wise. Though you did do a fairly good job of it by hand.
- They look fine to me. It's the same format I have used in past discography FL's. I guess I could go over them all again. -- Underneath-it-All (talk) 04:42, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- There's not need to repeat the chart sources in the general references, since you do that through in-line citations as well.
- Consider bolding the album titles in the "Studio albums", "Video albums", and "EP" tables.
- The "EP" seciton should be called "Extended plays" not EP. Same with the first mention of an EP in the lead.
- Was "Lap of Honour" released in Japan or only in Japan. May want to make that clear.
- The Year columns need to be center-aligned. This isn't a big deal in most of the tables, but for some reason the years in "Miscellaneous" table look a little funky to me.
- I think that's only because it had its width set to 33. I removed it, must be better now. indopug (talk) 02:51, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- British Phonographic Industry should be wikilinked in citation #6.
- B-Unique is called "B-Unique" in the first table, but "B-Unique Records" in the last one.
- Is it really necessary to wikilink "interviews" in the lead?
- "It did well on the charts" is a little opinion-y. I think the sentence is stronger without. Drewcifer (talk) 21:55, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Added your suggestions. -- Underneath-it-All (talk) 04:42, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Don't force the bolded title in the lead.
- Is there a particular reason "You Can Have It All" isn't in the singles chart? I know it's "limited edition" and all that junk, but it's still a single. You can specify it's availability very easily with a footnote while still including it in the singles table. Drewcifer (talk) 19:13, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done -- Underneath-it-All (talk) 19:22, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Further Its looking very good now; I just have minor points.
- There's a lot of redundant code: assigning width to the Year column is unnecessary as the width of "Year" and "2008" (any year for that matter) is the same. align="left" is redundant as it is the default setting to align it that way. See my edit to the singles table.
- rowspan="1" is redundant too.
- <br> should be <br /> to allow XHTML compatibility
- There are still a few; ctrl+F for <br> and then replace.
- I think BBC.co.uk and Billboard.com should actually be BBC and Billboard in the references.--indopug (talk) 20:00, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I still see quite a few. Again, use ctrl F. indopug (talk) 11:30, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. -- Underneath-it-All (talk) 03:06, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Went over it again. I believe I got them all this time -- Underneath-it-All (talk) 16:25, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support -- Nice work. indopug (talk) 17:57, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks! -- Underneath-it-All (talk) 05:05, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Is it "Kaiser Chiefs are currently recording their third album", or "Kaiser Chiefs is currently recording their third album". There's only one band, but it sounds odd as "is". I'm unsure of this. A wikilink to discography in the first sentence would be nice, but I think everyone else has covered the things to be resolved.
Support Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 17:17, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Oops.. make that Conditional support. The ordering of sections should follow the ordering of the infobox. Or vica-versa. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 17:19, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Done -- Underneath-it-All (talk) 19:13, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Still conditional, as I'm unsure whether "Kaiser Chiefs are currently recording their third album" is correct, or "Kaiser Chiefs is currently recording its third album". There's only one band, but it sounds odd as "is". I'm unsure of this and have asked at WT:MOS#Is a musical band referred to in the single or plural tense?. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 07:20, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by User:The Rambling Man 07:52, 1 July 2008 [39].
Nishkid is trekking the African safari as part of the FLC contest. Hope you enjoy the list! Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 23:43, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment "1886, The Sultan of Zanzibar" – Lowercase the "the", unless it's part of the title? Gary King (talk) 00:46, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Fixed. Weird, I had taken this article off FLC before your comment (I still had some issues I had to work out). Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 03:22, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Oh okay; I suppose I had the window open before you closed it, and then I edited it afterwards. Gary King (talk) 07:05, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Fixed. Weird, I had taken this article off FLC before your comment (I still had some issues I had to work out). Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 03:22, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Support: Excellent list!--Dem393 (talk) 20:39, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
- "This is a list of the Sultans of Zanzibar." We know this from the article's title. Please find something more engaging for the reader.
- Zanzibar needs wikilinking on it's first use (but not where it's bolded)
- It was already wikilinked on first non-bold use. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 12:54, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "In 1832[1] or 1840,[2][A]" refs should go after punctuation. Perhaps also try "Some time between 1832 and 1840,[1][2][A]"
- The ref here does not need to be placed after the punctuation. That MoS guideline only regards the placement of a ref directly after or before a punctuation mark. So, "In 1832[1] or 1840[2][A]," wouldn't be appropriate, but "In 1832[1] or 1840,[2][A]" would be. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 12:54, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Why wikilink plantations, but not cloves? I would think cloves is more important
- Link added. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 12:54, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Do the sultans names need to be bolded in the table?
- No, but I've stuck with this convention on all my lists. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 12:54, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Rename the notes column as comments, and create a notes column for the footnotes and references
- Unnecessary. Clumping up notes/references in a single column just makes matters confusing. It's better to have the refs and notes where they are relevant. "Comments" doesn't seem like an appropriate title for a column, as it gives off the aura of personal commentary (when it's not, really). I think the current title is appropriate. I'll rename the "Notes" heading to "Footnotes". Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 12:54, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support, but did they gain independence from Great Britain, or the United Kingdom? Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 15:32, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- UK, fixed. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 19:15, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments
- 1832/1840 in lead probably needs explaining in the lead rather than footnoting since it's quite confusing.
- Yeah, per Matthew, I would imagine it to be the UK.
- Why is each sultan's name in bold?
- Just a personal preference. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 19:15, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Rule in the table need not be capitalised.
- "This treaty essentially turned..." - what does "essentially" add/mean here?
- ref [8] seems incomplete.
- ref's [20] and [21] don't have a p. in front of page numbers.
The Rambling Man (talk) 18:35, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.