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June 11

Employment earnings - paycheck exposure to other employees

Laws regarding a person's earnings (paychecks) available to all other employees within the company - Lack of confidential protection on the data base - which enables all employees to access your earnings. ? What are the laws regarding employers who do not protect your personal earnings based on commission sales from other employed pesonnel.

HELP, thank you

In which country? Astronaut (talk) 13:02, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

In France almost every salary, etc., is public property. They have no concerns about privacy on such matters, neither on age. It is routine to be asked one's age on one's birthday. Even tiny children ask the aged. Healthy in many ways.90.0.5.203 (talk) 14:36, 11 June 2009 (UTC)DT

Management pay and bonuses have to be disclosed in the financial statements of companies traded at the stock exchange.71.236.26.74 (talk) 14:46, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

In Norway you can see what everyone in the country earned and how much tax they paid in a particular tax year just by typing their name into an online query. Everyone does this as soon as the figures come out each year, special deals with particular employees don't stay secret for long. On the whole this transparency is a good thing IMO, even if it's a little disconcerting the first time a colleague quotes your earnings at you. Mikenorton (talk) 15:29, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

You don't say where you're at, as noted above. In the US, I have not heard of any state that regards your salary or bonus as a protected piece of personal information that the company is prohibited by law from disclosing (whether intentionally or accidentally). It is certainly very standard for companies to keep this information confidential, but it's not a requirement — I seem to remember that in the early days of NeXT, everyone earned the same salary and knew about it, for example. The main beneficiary of compensation secrecy is probably the company. Anyway, if you're in the US and you're looking at how to retaliate against someone who screwed up and released your commission numbers, you can look up information on employee privacy at your state's website, but I expect that the most you can aim for is if this violated a company policy on keeping commission numbers secret, if the company happens to have such a policy. Tempshill (talk) 22:12, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Finding short-term work experience

I'd like to arrange short-term unpaid work in order to fill small gaps in my skills. The things I was thinking of are operating a proper switchboard, and working with SAP (business information system). I've been a receptionist, library assistant, and secretary of a student society, so I would be able to do other office based tasks. Are there any websites where I could find employers willing to do this, or if not can anyone recommend the types of business that might respond to a speculative offer? They would have to be within cycling distance of Liverpool, England, because I can't afford to spend money on commuting.

Also, is there anything similar for translation work, where I could offer to translate things free in exchange for a reference? 86.166.68.203 (talk) 16:39, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Have you concerned working for non-profits? In both cases you're more likely I'd imagine to find non-profits willing to let you do that sort of thing than private companies. You might try checking Action Without Borders for something like what you are thinking of, or at least a list of companies/groups in your area that might need such services. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 18:40, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

There's only one project in Liverpool on idealist.org, and it's for full-time students which I'm not. But thanks, that site is exactly the sort of resource I'm looking for. Signing up there now & will try to post an offer of help :-) 86.166.68.203 (talk) 23:36, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

You can often do this type of work for free by volunteering at a charity for example. However, there are many secretarial employment agencies which will place you with companies on a short term contract basis and you'll get paid for your efforts. Astronaut (talk) 23:35, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

The impression I'd got about temp agencies is that they only place people who did exactly the same job before and are 100% competent. Companies wouldn't pay through the nose for a temp and expect to have to train them. I will ring up some agencies and ask, but they aren't really in the volunteering business. Thanks anyway, 86.166.68.203 (talk) 23:40, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Does Liverpool have a site for free ads like Craigslist, or a free ads paper? You might try that. proz.com is a forum for translators, but that might be too advanced for your requirements. You might also find this useful [1]. So might this [2] do check whether it is phony though. 71.236.26.74 (talk) 04:46, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Translator's Cafe is excellent for finding freelance work as a translator. All of your work would be done over the email so you can work from home. Most of the work there is paid, but you will also find unpaid work if you really want it. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 13:56, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Many councils in the UK have a volunteer bureau, which exists to match you and an appropriate organisation. You tell them what skills you need to work on and how far you are willing to cycle, and they come up with a list of suitable unpaid jobs. Your closest one appears to be Volunteer Centre Liverpool. As for translating, you can do that online, and build up a profile as a prompt and reliable collaborator. How about starting with Wikipedia in your target language? BrainyBabe (talk) 22:01, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Ideas for environment club activities

I need ideas for a school environment club's activities. I have been searching the internet for a while but I haven't found anything interesting and applicable. The school is located in the city, nowhere near forests etc, so I have to throw out suggestions about protecting wildlife or planning trees etc. Students in the school also do not seem to be very interested in environment issues so we need an interesting way to introduce an event for everyone to "want" to join. The purpose should be about raising awareness and actions about protecting a city environment or reducing wastes. Also the projects should cost reasonably (not too much!); we are sponsored by the school but funds for clubs are of course limited. Could you please offer some interesting ideas? Thanks very much Wikipedia! 117.0.41.153 (talk) 16:53, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Hmm not sure how hard this would be, but perhaps you could make some do it yourself wind turbines? There are lots of instructions on the internet of varying diffulty/cost, running the gamut from ones like this and ones like this. It seems quite possible to make them on a small budget, but I don't know if they'd be particularly useful once you'd made it. TastyCakes (talk) 17:08, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

And here is a wind powered composter. TastyCakes (talk) 17:09, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

The trouble with making things like home-made wind turbines is that it gives the impression that you are working to help the environment - whilst actually damaging it still more! If you make a turbine and it doesn't make practical amounts of energy for you (trust me - it won't) - then the energy and materials you consumed in making it were wasted. Even commercially manufactured small-scale wind turbines have been shown to be an utter waste of materials...some of them require control electronics that actually consume more power than the windmill generates!

If you want your club to ACTUALLY help the environments then think you should concentrate on things around you that will actually make a positive difference. Perhaps do an energy "audit" of your school - where is energy used - is there any wastage? Do people leave lights on when they needn't? Is the school switching to energy efficient lighting like CFL's when old lightbulbs burn out? Are heating and air-conditioners properly adjusted? Could ceiling fans cut down on wasted energy? Is your school adequately insulated? What temperatures are present in roof-spaces - would attic fans improve energy consumption? Could you plan more efficient ways for students to get to school - perhaps you could organize a car-pooling system? Encourage bicycling to school? How is waste from your school disposed of? Does waste paper get properly recycled? Does left-over food from school lunches get composted or thrown into the trash? Are there local pig farms or other places where these scraps would actually be worth something? Are pencils more "green" than ballpoints or felt-tipped pens? Are chalkboards better or worse than modern dry-erase white-boards? Would it be better for the school to distribute laptops and electronic books than paper books? How much energy are kids wasting with cellphones when there might be a better way to communicate in school?

Look at any and every place where things (people, food, electricity, paper, books, furniture, waste heat, waste materials) goes into or out of the school and ask whether that could be done better. I guarantee you'll find several - perhaps lots - of things that would either cost nothing to implement - or which would actually save more money than they'd cost. If you can get those things to change then you'll have made a positive difference - and that's a wonderful thing. Take your group of enthusiasts - form them into groups of two or three and have each group take a piece of the problem to produce ideas from. After a couple of weeks, collect together these ideas and figure out which ones you're going to try to fix. Assign fellow students to doing publicity, for liason with school officials, etc. SteveBaker (talk) 20:08, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Just because you are in a city doesn't mean there is no wildlife to protect or places to plant trees. You don't say where you are, so I don't know what kind of wildlife you could be take an interest in, but you would be surprised how much wildlife you can find in the middle of a city. As for planting trees - there isn't much point planting them in a forest, it's already full of them, planting them in the city can be far more beneficial. Depending on where you are, they can prevent erosion, make more efficient use of rainfall, keep the area cooler, etc., etc.. --Tango (talk) 20:24, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

You could organize a bicycle race or a 5k running race to get funds, and then use those funds to do some of the things mentioned above. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 20:43, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure the age of the student's involved, but I went to a mixed recycling sorting plant last year which I and the other visitors found fascinating. It was through my university environmental society, although I was the only undergrad, the rest being staff or post grads everyone found it very interesting and the site seemed to have the facilities to explain to younger audience (also, some of the staff were shockingling ignorant of recycling). So, I would recomend a recycling plant, especially if the area has mixed recyling (as in, cardboard, glass, steel, aluminium, paper etc etc) is all collected together, because they just JCB it all in and then you walk around and see how all the fragments are separated and see how polythene bags get everywhere. Which has some pretty cool and big machines, and you get to wear a hard hat. There is some great technology in place - imagine infrared lasers measuring density of material passing below and directing jets of air to make some refuse jump a gap while letting others drop down a hole. I can't tell where the OP is from, but this was in central london, and they gave the impression there were lots about, in the UK there are apparently only a few places that can recycle tetra packs, but I bet they have cool stuff to see there aswell.

Another idea which would be cool would be an industrial composter where they can take literally anything of organic matter and make it into compost, I'd like to see that... Also, just because you aren't near a forest doesn't mean you are not near a wetlands reserve... MedicRoo (talk) 22:40, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and the purpose of the trip to the recycling plant was to try and encourage the staff to sort out how they would implement recycling on the campus, for instance, if its not mixed recycling you need to know what you can put in what recycling bin, and note that not all plastics are the same, and contaminants are bad.

• Also, could always ask the school to set aside some quite place of their grounds to make a wildlife garden, there is health and safety issues if you have a pond, but it would fun and get people involved. Also, if you put up bird boxes, and you can get neat little cameras relatively cheap, install them in the box and then you could have the footage shown to people, the success of BBC's spring watch will mean you will get more support that will allow you to do some better more environmental things. I'm going to burst with ideas a lot now...MedicRoo (talk) 23:15, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

The thing with environmental efforts is that lots of things that look good at a glance turn out to be ineffective or counter productive if you look at the big picture. Wind turbines were already cited above. Recycling is another one of those red herrings. Apart from the fact that some collection authorities ask people to wash plastic containers before recycling, they also use municipal mains water for both plastic and paper recycling. Producing tap water consumes quite a bit of energy. So the question whether you come out ahead environmentally isn't that easy to answer. In this light trash prevention is the better option. What you might try is to do a trash monster. You can either use school waste or ask club members and/or fellow students to bring in their washed plastic containers and waste paper. You then use that to construct a dinosaur or similar shape. (Get an instructor to give you a hand with the design.) Making paper-mâché will let you create a shape and keep your teetering pile of waste from collapsing and creating a hazard or blowing away. You can then gather ideas on how to reduce waste and apply those. Create a "post waste reduction" monster to display next to the original one. If your club's efforts were effective that one should be significantly smaller. Select one item from the trash pile each week and see if there is a good reason for using it (there sometimes is) and what would be the drawbacks and benefits for replacing it with something else or doing without. That way your club members will not fall prey to the frustrations of finding out that your "environmentally friendly" fad got shot down by environmentalists as being all but friendly (OR been there, tried that). Before encouraging students to ride their bikes to school you should make sure that can be done safely. Make a map of the area showing bike paths and sidewalks that could be used. Then see which students have schedules that would allow them to ride together. Contact the city and find out what offices would be in charge. Then try to get some teachers or school administrators to back your plan and contact the city officials together. You could push for more bike paths and permission to use the sidewalks during certain hours. Get the police to do a bike safety presentation/inspection at your school. In the city it might be easier and more efficient to encourage carpooling or expand the bus route with students on the expanded route paying a small fee for use of the bus. (Your club could do the math to make sure that both the gas savings for parents and the higher costs for the bus add up to savings) Have a look at class schedules. If they need tweaking so that students can share rides and use the bus you could talk to the administration. (OR one of our schools created "bridge classes" where students were supervised by teachers and did their homework or some extracurricular activities. An enthusiastic home economics teacher offered cooking classes and was amazed by the flood of boys applying ;-) Create a Questionnaire for parents what they'd like to be assured of when car-pooling. Then do "Carpool etiquette" fliers or print "car pooing agreements" for parents to sign. (That way you keep things from falling apart because of things like the vegetarian mom doesn't want her kids to ride with the mom who fetches burgers after school.) See if the school council, city authorities or an insurance company can help with insurance issues. (One of the big obstacles to carpooling with kids.) You can see there's a lot to do to get just that going. Your club can create a page on your schools website and display the environmental

Pick something common that is sold or used at your school, such as individual plastic bottles of water, soda, etc. Research how many are used, and the amount of waste generated. Look at how long it takes for the raw materials to decompose. Now that you have a reference point (tons of waste per year x number of years to decompose), figure out how to reduce the total. For example, selling reusable canteens with the school logo on them would not only raise some money but also promote the use of reusable beverage containers. Oh, and thanks for giving a damn! DOR (HK) (talk) 08:26, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Try growing some vegetables, eg tomatoes, peas. This could lead to thinking about pesticides, food-miles, etc. You do not even need a garden: large tubs or grow-bags will do. 78.147.146.107 (talk) 21:12, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Body proportions

While a number of body proportion calculators exist on the internet, I've not found one that gives me all the information I want. A male has the following dimensions (all in inches, except weight, which is in pounds):

Height: 69 Collar: 14.5 Chest: 37 Bicep: 11.5 Forearm: 10 Wrist: 6.25 Chest: 37 Waist: 30 Hips: 34 Inside leg: 31/2 Thigh: 21 Calf: 14 Weight: 144

Firstly, the calculator at [3] suggests that both the calf is about 3 inches larger than expected and the thigh is 2.25 inches larger than expected. While I know that these calculations are only rough guides for classical artwork, and the person in question is not a piece of classical artwork, is this really larger than normal? Secondly, are the person's legs longer than average and chest smaller than average? (again, I realise that there is a great variety, but...) I ask as the person in question often has difficulty in finding clothes that fit without looking slightly odd. Also, is a foot size of UK 6.5 - 7 (about 25 to 25.5 cm I am told) particularly small? --80.229.152.246 (talk) 17:23, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm not too familar with the bicep, thigh, calf, forearm, & wrist measurments, but I think this individual sounds a little thinner than the UK average. Judging on the availability of clothing in the UK, my own OR suggests the "average man" is 5'9" tall with a 15"-16" collar, 40"-42" chest, 30"-32" waist, 30"-32" inside leg, and takes a size 9 shoe. Better developed calves and thighs could be explained by sports such as cycling, skiing, etc. Astronaut (talk) 00:06, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

What you are looking for is Clothing sizes rather than whether your measures are average. Our pages mostly cover the US from what I've seen, but things apply similarly elsewhere. Much to manufacturers' chagrin human bodies don't come in molds. Apart from differences between males and females there is a wide variety of measurements. Other than tailored clothes, mass produced clothing is made to adequately fit a certain range of shapes and measurements. To allow for some wider variations industry has created Petite sizes (aka. short sizes) and Plus-size clothing. Within the standard industry measurements for the country in question each manufacturer adjusts their patters to their own specifications. They also use the upper, lower or median standard measurements for their designs. So you might fit better into clothes designed for a different country or made by a different manufacturer. Certain styles (e.g. pleats, stretch fabric, A-line, raglan sleeves etc. ) fit some people better than others, so maybe you've just been shopping in the wrong type. If you can't find an adequate fit, there's lots of places that offer alterations and some retailers even offer it in-store. (OR a male friend with a bodacious behind found to his surprise that some women jeans fit him better than male cuts. He is very grateful for online shopping. Even sewing patters for people sewing their own clothes differ between countries and companies. Some Chinese manufacturers are having trouble with the size of American and European biceps and their clothing frequently ends up in close-out sales and Dollar stores. In shoe sizes there is even less standard specification. There are wide and slim sizes available at specialty footwear stores, but you are just as likely to find a fitting pair from some standard source after shopping around a bit.71.236.26.74 (talk) 00:33, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks very much for the info. In particular, the OR that the 'average man' has a chest of 40"-42" seems to match with my own experience, which is a bit of a pain for the person in question. --80.229.152.246 (talk) 20:53, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Old Chinese custom?

When I was growing up my mom had a rule that nobody in the household could wash their hair when it was someone's birthday. The same rule applied when it was Chinese New Year. I have spent years trying to find out why. Is this an old Chinese custom or superstition? What was it's origin? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.55.215.69 (talk) 18:45, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

The tradition of not washing hair on Chinese New Year is attributed to a desire not to wash away the good luck that the New Year brings. I'm guessing that not washing hair on a birthday has similar origins. Mikenorton (talk) 19:53, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Chinese New Year's is everyone's birthday: www.danwei.org/china_information/chinese_new_year_and_chinese_s.php. DOR (HK) (talk) 08:29, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

shopping carts

Why do most of the shopping carts in Australia (I forget what the local name for them is) have 4 wheel steering while the American version only allows the front wheels to pivot? 65.121.141.34 (talk) 19:55, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

We usually call them "shopping trolleys". Maybe because Australia's such a rugged, manly country, where 4-wheel drive vehicles are par for the course in many places.  :) -- JackofOz (talk) 20:30, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Because the local retailer of shopping carts/trolleys only sell the 2/4 wheel steering versions in that part of the world. There doesn't necessarily have to be a reason, it could be "just so". Dismas|^(talk) 20:35, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Shopping carts/trolleys with 4 wheel steering can create an occupational hazard if you use a motorized shopping cart retriever (aka. cart pusher or cart puller). I guess the Australian version is designed for manual retrieval or their OSHA hasn't gotten to it yet. 71.236.26.74 (talk) 21:34, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Also, don't rule out simple economics: the ones with two fixed wheels are probably cheaper, and saving a buck is a very high priority in the States! --DaHorsesMouth (talk) 23:16, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Oz OHS laws are very wide ranging and come with hefty penalties for non-compliers. The law does not need to spell out every possible individual risk that businesses need to be cognisant of. Businesses have a responsibility to interpret the intent of the laws and apply them in every way that's appropriate to their circumstances. But having said that, the difficulty of managing shopping trolleys with 4 independent wheels is legendary, so it's surprising that they haven't been replaced with 2-wheel versions. -- JackofOz (talk) 23:16, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

In NZ quite a few supermarkets have special trolleys for the disabled nowadays. While these are I believe more designed for wheel chairs I presume they work with mobility scooters too. I'm surpised they're not present in Australian supermarkets. Most supermarkets in NZ do use manual retrieval, although vehicles are used in some places Nil Einne (talk) 03:40, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Count yourself lucky. Many trolleys in my experience have three wheels that will spin where they like and one that is fixed firmly so as to create an automatin 360 degree turn.86.194.122.65 (talk) 14:16, 12 June 2009 (UTC)DT

The store where I buy groceries seems to specialize in carts with one wheel in a shape other than circular, so it thumps on each revolution. Edison (talk) 15:49, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Revolution? Count yourself fortunate. I used to shop at a supermarket where half the wheels barely turned at all, so you had to drag the thing around. (And it wasn't a budget chain either.) Gwinva (talk)

DM band?

What would someone mean when they refer to DM, probably a band. I suspect they were playing in Berlin this weekend or week, and 68000 people were there. Any of you sleuths got any leads? Aaadddaaammm (talk) 20:46, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

DM is an abbreviation for "death metal", a music genre which is fairly popular in some German venues. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 20:54, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

(edit conflict) That would be Depeche Mode. Algebraist 20:55, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Here's a report [4] (P.s. why is this not on the Entertainment desk?) - 71.236.26.74 (talk) 21:24, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

That picture is of Dave Gahan, lead singer of Depeche Mode... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 00:22, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, the question has already been answered. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 00:25, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

The book 'Risk' by Dan Gardner and some unanswered questions

I'm reading the above book and it's pretty enjoyable but there's a series of questions that were posed to university students by a Ms Peters and I would be grateful if someone could confirm the answers. I've got what I think they are in my head but just want to check as, well, the whole point of the questions is about how the answer you 'think' is right is not (i.e. 'gut' is wrong). Anyhoo on with the questions:

• If person A's chance of getting a disease is 1 in 100 in 10 years, and person B's is double that of person A's, what is B's risk?
• Imagine that we roll a fair 6-sided die 1000 times how many times do you think the die will come up even (2,4,6)?
• In the Acme publishing sweepstakes, the chance of winning a car is 1 in 1000. What percent of tickets in the sweepstake win a car?

I'll not make myself look a fool until someone answers, then if i'm wrong i'll properly understand why and so won't feel as much of a numpty. ny156uk (talk) 21:56, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Fine I'll bite:

• 2 in 100? Though my gut says that is wrong.
• Well if the die is fair then there is a 1/6 chance of each number coming up, we are looking for any of 3 numbers so the odds of finding one is (1/6 * 3=) 3/6=1/2, 1000*0.5=500. So the answer is 500 right?
• I might be missing something about sweepstakes, but 1 in 1000 translates into a 0.1% chance.

What are the answers then? Prokhorovka (talk) 22:52, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Right, I wanted to answer the same as Prokhorovka because I'm so certain they are correct, but I once had a really stressful time where it was explained to me with hideous formula that the chances of flipping a coin 3 times and them being all heads would be 0.5. I have a feeling we're walking into that formula now... MedicRoo (talk) 23:10, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Odds and statistics like this get very confusing because you need to be VERY specific about what you are asking for. With the die rolls, for example, there are three kinds of odds:

1. The odds of any one number coming up on any one roll
2. The odds of a specific set of numbers coming up out of a larger set of rolls
3. The odds of an exact sequence of numbers coming up in a set of rolls

You have to know what you are asking for before you can answer it. For example, the odds of rolling any one number are 1/6 for each number. However, that is a different question than asking "What are the odds that, on say 600 rolls of the dice, I get exactly 100 "1s" and 100 "2s" and 100 "3s" etc. etc." It is this second question that requires the messy formula that MedicRoo refers too. And, of course, there is a third question, which may be worded something like "In a set of 600 rolls, what are the odds of never rolling the same number twice". Again, requires a completely different perspective on the odds, since now we are asking for the odds of a specific sequence, and not just on raw number of results. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 00:20, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

In particular, #2 is the tricky one. 500 is the most likely number of even die rolls, but I would in no way claim that I "expect" 500 even rolls -- "not 500" is far more likely. As for the others, I agree with you on #1 (2 in 100 in 10 years is a significantly different answer than 1 in 100 in 5 years). For #3 not enough information is provided -- if the sweepstakes' tickets are evenly and fully distributed, then the answer is 0.1%. Many such giveaways don't meet those criteria, however. — Lomn 01:06, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Let E denote "Even" on a particular roll, and N denote "Not Even" on a particular roll. The probability of getting an "E" on a particular roll is 0.5, as is the probabiliyt of getting an N. Think of a sequence 1000 letters long (something like "NEEENENENNNE....") as the result of the 1000 rolls. Let X be the number of "E"s in a randomly generated sequence like that. Each particular arrangement of Evens (E) and Not Evens (N) has a probability of 0.5^1000. For any particular value of X, there are 1000P1000 / (x! (1000-x)!) possible arrangements of Ns and Es. Thus, the probability distribution goes something like this: for any P(X=x) = 1000P1000 / x!(1000-x)! * 0.5^1000, which simplifies to P(X=x) = 1000! / x!(1000-x)! * 0.5^1000

To work out the expected value E(X), all you have to do is sum xP(X) over 0 to 1000, which probably simplifies to something quite simple... and eventually gets you to 500.

(BTW, this question probably belongs on the mathematics desk). --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 04:59, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

I concur with your math, but the question isn't "what's the expected number of evens", it's "how many do you think". I don't think there will be exactly 500 evens on 1000 rolls -- the most likely single outcome is still incredibly unlikely. — Lomn 11:41, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Just some more background. MedicRoo seems to be looking for a specific formula, and besides what PalaceGuard008 has provided, some other interesting reads on unexpected odds include the Monty Hall Problem and Penney's game and Efron's dice; though these involved odds of non-transitive situations (i.e. the order of events matters), but they are examples where the odds of a situation are counterintuitive. For more on the mathematics behind the odds of long strings of events, see Bernoulli scheme and Bernoulli process and Lévy process, which are all examples of Stochastic processes and understanding each requires more mathematics background than I have... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 12:18, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

If I knew what they were called, I'm sure I could read about them...

It's a brand new dance!

So, what's the proper name for the signals that the dude on the tarmac with the orange sticks is giving to the pilot who's taxiing up to the gate? Do we have any pictures? Thanx, DaHorsesMouth (talk) 23:14, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Aircraft marshalling. Algebraist 23:16, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

So rumours that they use table-tennis bats are not true? Astronaut (talk) 00:09, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Two minutes for an answer -- that has to be some kind of a record. I'd have never chanced upon "marshall" as the operative word here. Thanks! --DaHorsesMouth (talk) 00:14, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Is it the word in North America? The article mentions the signs used in North America, but the only sources cited are British ones. --Anonymous, 05:25 UTC, June 12, 2009.

The article needs to be clearer on how universal the signs are. My assumption has been that the signs are universal for the same reason English is the universal language of pilots talking to ATC. Tempshill (talk) 15:33, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Do you have to wear a cool hat like that to direct helicopters? 86.4.190.83 (talk) 06:25, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

I believe the word you're looking for is "get", not "have". -- Captain Disdain (talk) 08:29, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Lollipop man? DOR (HK) (talk) 08:33, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

June 12

Actor who was born in 1908 and died in 1955

What was the cause of death for the actor known as Robert Kent or also known as Douglas Blackley Jr.? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Icemerang (talk • contribs) 07:14, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Found via Ancestry.com Social security death index entry for Douglas Wellwood Blackley, born 3 Dec 1908, Connecticut (other sources add Hartford), died 4 May 1955, Los Angeles, Ca. These data agree with other sources such as IMDB. I did not find an obituary at Ancestry.com or Google news archive, but you should be able to get a copy of the death certificate for $12 from the California vital records department at [5]. If they can't find it, they still keep the $12. Death certificates from other states I have seen do include a cause of death, but I don't know what California includes. Edison (talk) 15:46, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Saving other researchers time: Our article Robert Kent (actor) is a stub. His bio at IMDB notes he died May 4, 1955 in Los Angeles but doesn't say why. (Interesting I found it that we have one "Robert Kent (actor)" article, but the IMDB search results for Robert Kent yields three actors.) Tempshill (talk) 15:35, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

No obits in the main LA papers of the period (via ProQuest). --98.217.14.211 (talk) 13:01, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, does anyone here have a copy of his death certificate, perhaps?Icemerang (talk) 01:27, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Climate change / renewable energy orgs

Of all the ones out there, which ones have probably been the most effective at advocating for green energy and reducing carbon emissions?

Mooselogic (talk) 07:40, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Pont del Anglesos Mallorca

Who designed the Pont del Anglesos in Mallorca. It is at the entrance to the Parc Natural de S'Albufera and spans over the Canal Gran on the main road along the coast at Port d'Alcudia Cairlinn (talk) 09:39, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

In a quick search neither the Spanish nor the Catalan wikipedias turned up anything. (Mallorquí is considered part of the Catalan language family.) With the Catalan version there might be something under a different name. It is not the most expansive wikipedia though. Will try again when I have more time. 71.236.26.74 (talk) 00:28, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

It's "Pont dels Anglesos" in Català71.236.26.74 (talk) 04:51, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

It was named in honor of John Frederick Bateman and his team for drying up a swamp. It doesn't look as though he had anything to do with designing the bridge though. This site has a lot of info on the bridge, but no designer from what I could see [6]. There's a bridge with the same name in Barcelona (Built in 1955) That's about what I can find for now. You might find someone here [7] [8] or here [9] who can help you further. 71.236.26.74 (talk) 06:26, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Why people select a product - psychology of preference

We have recently been selecting a major software product, and to do this we extracted requirements added general requirements like "ease of use" and produced a scoring matrix. We got everyone to fill in scores in areas they understood, asked everyone which product was best and to score each product area by area. The scores and preferences from the technical areas were as expected: the preferred choices were marked higher. This was not the case with some of the business users. About half of these rated the product they liked best lower than one of the others. Our immediate thought was that we had omitted some factors from the scoring matrix, so we asked the business users if there were any factors that should be included. A few additional items came in, such as provider's culture, understanding of business needs, and so on. We added these scores, and we still had a discrepancy - and a couple of business users scores were even further out of line with the preference. We asked them why, and they said "well I know product X does everything better but I just think I would be happier with Y", or "I just have a gut feeling we'd do better with it". Exasperated we added another very woolly factor "preference" with quite a high rating, and eventually had scores which made sense - in that people's scores reflected their preference.

Now it is tempting to see this as the illogic of the business users, but after some honest thought about how we (the technical users) scored I am not sure. I think it could be that we saw a greater importance in "justifying" our preferences with scores that reflected and a greater ability to do so. looking at people's scores it is quite clear that they marked their favoured products highly in most areas and lower in others. Both business and technical users were able to change opinions when given good reasons, one product would not meet expected future requirements and when that was pointed out everyone was happy that it could not continue.

I am interested in the psychology of selection, it seems to me that most people do not evaluate things logically point by point. Is this a known phenomena? Is the marking to justify preference also a known phenomena? -- Q Chris (talk) 10:10, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't quite get the jist of what you are asking, but in this area you'll be interested in reading up more about the following... Confirmation bias (only believing that which proves what you believe to be true and discounting that which disproves your thoughts), Collective behaviour (if others are being influenced by what others have said). Infact what am I do, just read throguh List of cognitive biases you could spend all day in that little section, it's a beauty. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 14:02, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

There has been some interesting research around free will and choices that suggests we actually make most choices very quickly, before we are even aware that we have made them, and then justify them to ourselves. Choice blindness is an interesting example of this. 80.41.126.158 (talk) 16:37, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

tennis

What is a "winner" in a tennis game?utkarsh (talk) 11:02, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

It's a shot that cannot be returned. Some commentators may also use "clean winner" for a shot that cannot even be reached. --Dweller (talk) 11:06, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

so it depends on the commentator (or umpire) to decide wether a shot is a winner or not?Shraktu (talk) 11:25, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

See Glossary of tennis#W. Deor (talk) 11:26, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

No, it's practically determined: in other words, if the opposing player hasn't returned the ball so it falls within the bounds of the court on the other side of the net, then it's a winner. No decision required - unless the ball is called wrongly by a line judge, in which case the umpire will need to either consult Hawkeye or see the mark on a clay court for him/herself. --TammyMoet (talk) 14:48, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

A shot that can't be returned within the bounds of the court is just a shot that wins the point. A winner is a technical term used to describe points that the opponent can't touch. You can think of it as the point being won by that shot as opposed to being lost by the opponent's return shot being out. --Tango (talk) 18:27, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

questions

• Is it illegal to kill a horse? What punishment can you expect?
• Is it possible to have your arms longer than your legs?
• Does anyone have any more information about Sirkka Sari? She is not much documented apart from beif mention of her death?

Sorry for cumping these all together Robbie Record (talk) 11:56, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

1. It depends on your jurisdiction and on the manner and context of the horse's death. If you starve a horse, or kill it "just because", in many places you may be charged with Animal cruelty and it will, of course, depend entirely on where you live as to what punishment you can expect. However, it is perfectly legal to kill a horse to "Put it out of its misery" in most places, see Animal euthanasia.
2. Like in humans, or in general? Cuz this guy certainly qualifies. In humans, you could have your legs amputated, which would of course make them shorter than your arms. And there may be some birth defects which also cause that.
3. We do not, as yet, have an article on Sirkka Sari, but she does appear in the article List of unusual deaths, and there are articles on her at other language Wikipedias; if you read Finnish, perhaps you could translate this: [10] for us...

Does that help? --Jayron32.talk.contribs 12:25, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

If you've already had breakfast or lunch or whatever there's Horse slaughter Note to self, don't do ref desk soon after breakfast to allow for squeamish stomach. Among the various birth defects caused by Thalidomide extremely shortened limbs occurred. 71.236.26.74 (talk) 13:30, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Our article on horsemeat quotes a US report based on UN data, giving a worldwide estimate of 4.7m horses used for food in 2005. As with most "is it illegal?" questions, it depends on where you are. BrainyBabe (talk) 22:09, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Overseas Retail Sales Shipping Consolidator

Living outside the U.S.A. I've experienced some problems in ordering from U.S.A. based companies on the internet (who won't ship abroad) & have had issues with multiple customs charges for multiple different items ordered from different companies. I want to ask if there exists such a thing as a service in the U.S.A. which will receive any items you order from U.S.A. companies (which you pay for only giving their U.S.A. address) consolidate them into one shipment and send them out to you on a specific date or when all your items have been included? If this doesn't exist could someone please invent it as it'd be really useful. AllanHainey (talk) 13:46, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

I once ordered two books from the USA, but did it as two separate orders so as to avoid paying import duty. However, if you have a friend or relative in the USA couldn't they do it for you? - and they might be more willing to lie about the value of the package so you can avoid customs charges and import duty/tax. Astronaut (talk) 16:13, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

US companies sometimes don't even ship to within the US e.g. to Alaska or Hawaii. Some boast "international shipping" and are thinking no farther than Canada and/or Mexico. The thing becomes that you are probably cheaper off paying extra customs than hiring a shipping agent, negotiating something with an office service or Mailboxes etc. outlet. (OR All those work but cost a bundle.) Asking a friend or relative to lend a hand might work better. The whole thing looks easy until the third party considers their exposure to liability (lost packages, broken items, repo for unpaid bills etc. etc.) Professional companies don't want to be left holding the bag and their insurance agents are happy to charge them a pretty penny, which they in turn slap onto your bill. (OR my last Mailboxes etc. bill was $170 for sending a small parcel, just to give you an idea.) Contacting one of those places that offer "we sell your stuff on e-bay for you" might work, haven't tried that. AFAIK all this has to be negotiated on an individual basis. I don't know of any company that offers such a service as part of their standard package. Also shop around, it's time consuming, but I've managed to locate lots of items I used to get shipped at local sources after some digging. If you consider the extra charges then any US price advantage usually fizzles away fast. Re. customs you might want to have a look at the local regulations on declaring goods as part of your move. (No legal advice, just a friendly pointer. May not even apply to your particular situation.)71.236.26.74 (talk) 16:22, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Even if they say on their website/eBay/ad they won't ship abroad, it might be worth contacting them. If you offer them a certain amount of money for their inconvenience. This is is particularly the case with a smaller dealer for whom every sale matters. Apologies if you've already tried this. --Maltelauridsbrigge (talk) 16:29, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

I've been thinking of asking the same thing. There are companies specializing in this, one example is JetCarrier that specializes in shipping to Scandinavia from the US. I know there are more general companies available but I don't remember the names, if anyone knows I would be grateful. Jørgen (talk) 18:48, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Great find that one, wish they had been around when I was in Sweden. --71.236.26.74 (talk) 21:59, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

I googled us mailbox forwarding overseas, seems to give some options, have no idea how good they are. Jørgen (talk) 00:55, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the links & the advice, really useful & I'll check them out. I don't have any friends & family in the states to use though & I've already tried contacting the retailers - for some reason noone wants to vary their 'no overseas sales' policies, even for countries like the UK. AllanHainey (talk) 12:38, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Price of a Laptop in S.Korea

I'm wondering how much a laptop would cost in Korea. I'm looking for a Korean one with the Korean version of Windows on it. It doesn't need to be top-of-the-range, but I'd like one that plays games fairly well enough. However, to be honest, I'll be using it mostly for practising Korean (I could use my British laptop or my Japanese ones, but I'd prefer a Korean operating system as it'll force me to try and read), plus, of course, I would be able to use it for work, as I am going to Korea to work (I leave next week! Hooray!). Anyone have any ideas? --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 18:14, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Lots of laptops here. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 21:29, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Sovereign credit ratings

Hello, I was wondering if anyone knew where to find a list of countries by their sovereign credit ratings? S&P or Moody's will do. I'm hoping to make a map like this one for the credit rating article, but my Google searches so far have not come up with a good list. TastyCakes (talk) 20:01, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Something like this useful? [11] You might also be able to dig something up at the world bank [12] or the UN [13]. 71.236.26.74 (talk) 22:15, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

This looks perfect, or it would be if it were one of the more well known credit rating agencies... Thanks a lot though, I'll have a look through the UN and World Bank sites. TastyCakes (talk) 22:35, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

The people at Fitch would be rather miffed I guess. They are the lesser known of the "big three" rating agencies, but they're in there. 71.236.26.74 (talk) 23:54, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Fitch, S&P and Moody's all release their ratings list (not research) free of charge to the public. Moody's requires (free) registration, but here's S&P. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 00:00, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Ah, perfect. Thanks a lot guys. TastyCakes (talk) 19:06, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Waistband

My question yesterday got me thinking about another aspect of clothing and body size that has me puzzled, namely: where do people wear the waistband on their trousers? For me, the waistband sits directly around my navel and even if I position it lower, it works it way back up to there even unless I actively adjust it or wear my belt much looser. Within my own experience, this seems to be a bit higher than the average (so much so that a few people have commented on it), although my experience is rather limited to those of ages between 13 and 20. Is there any other evidence that backs up this conclusion that it is higher than most people? If it is not designed to be worn in this position, why is it called a waistband? Is it left over from earlier times when trousers were longer and worn with braces? --80.229.152.246 (talk) 20:57, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

When I wear jeans, I personally wear the waistband pretty low, but it is never noticed because I will wear a t-shirt or shirt outside my kecks and covering the waistband. At work, I generally have my waistband either on or just below my hip-bones. Any higher than that and it just looks far too high (and causes discomfort in my crotch). I would assume it's called a waistband, because your hips are part of your waist. If you didn't have hips, your waist would go all the way down to your thighs, after all. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 21:03, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Personally, mine sits above my hip bones and just covers my belly-button. This has been commented on dozens of times. Prokhorovka (talk) 21:19, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

It depends on the type and style of trousers/pants you buy. Some are Low-rise jeans, some are Hip-huggers and there are other styles too. The waistband height will vary depending on the style, though as noted some wearers will wear them at a specified height themselves. ny156uk (talk) 22:19, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

I suspect it also has something to do with body shape. People might prefer a tighter fit around the narrowest part of their body. ie. a thin person with a clearly defined waist might prefer the waistband to be tight around their navel area; but a fat person might find the waistband naturally sits lower. Astronaut (talk) 08:58, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

I realize that this is original research but I'm pretty thin and wear my pants around my hips. If I pulled them up to my waist, I'd look like Ed Grimley. Dismas|^(talk) 12:57, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

I've seen older men (50s and 60s +) in Japan wearing their suit trousers so high up, the waistband is somewhere between the bottom of the ribcage and the nipples. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 13:51, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Be thankful they didn't display unsightly bulges, just like the doughy overspill on a freshly baked muffin - only not so appetising. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 21:23, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

My best friend always said it should be at least 3 finger-widths below your bellybutton or you look like Steve Urkel. I have always generally agreed. However, we're teenage girls, so YMMV with that rule! And judging from most guys I know, their rule of thumb is that the waistband should be halfway down their rear ends, so you can clearly see their snazzy boxers. (Just a personal opinion, but I don't recommend following that one.) Cherry Red Toenails (talk) 01:53, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Where you wear pants is a matter of fashion, and that changes. In the early 70s pants were worn very low. By the 80s waistlines were very high (not quite Steve Urkel, but pretty bad sometimes). In the 90s they became lower and lower.

As for older men - if you're male, as you get older you shrink, your butt disappears and your waist expands. Unlike younger men with a big belly, you can't wear your pants below your belly, because there's nothing to support them in the back. So you pull them up over your belly. At the same time, since you aren't as tall as you used to be, your pants get too long. Another reason to pull them up. Guettarda (talk) 03:27, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

My User Box

This is my first Userbox and I need to know what section to put it under. (Religion Maybe?) Programmer13^Talk_{What I do} 21:32, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

This user believes that 42 is the meaning of life

It's your userpage, put it wherever you want... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 23:21, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

If you mean what category in WP:UBX, you'd want to put it here. ~EdGl ★ 03:17, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Hypoallergenic Defense Dog

What breed of hypoallergenic dogs are best for home defense? Are there hypoallergenic German shepherds? Acceptable (talk) 23:40, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

See Hypoallergenic dog breed, which has a list. Pick something with a mean-sounding name, or possibly a taste for human testicles... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 03:36, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

But what if Tonya Harding comes a-calling? Clarityfiend (talk) 06:51, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

What does Harding have to do with dogs or testicles? Did you mean Lorena Bobbitt? Dismas|^(talk) 12:53, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Dogs with a taste for testicles aren't likely to deter her or any other female intruders (or eunuchs either, come to think of it). Clarityfiend (talk) 07:52, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Keep in mind the best things about dogs for home defense is the fact that they are alert and make a lot of noise, alerting you and others to the intrusion. A dog that actually attacks intruders can be problematic for all involved (humans are pretty good about knowing which "intruders" are allowed ones, like the guy who reads your electric meter, but dogs aren't), and against determined intruders will just leave you with a dead dog. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 14:27, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

June 13

American Bathrooms

Why do Americans have such a problem with toilets, WCs, Loos, etc.? They have no problem with s**t, a**e, etc. It seems most odd to be asked for directions to the "bathroom' in such places as railway stations.86.216.123.3 (talk) 10:27, 13 June 2009 (UTC)DT

I don't think Americans have a problem with naming that little room where we pass excrement. Just look at the terms you have used yourself. WC? water closet, Loo? what's that about then. These are merely different terms for the same room that an American would call a bathroom. Context also has a great deal to do with which term would be used. An American asking for the bathroom is clearly being polite when addressing a stranger. If he (possibly she) were enquiring of a friend or colleague then they may well use alternative terms like "the can" or "the john". In the same way an Englishman would not usually ask a stranger the whereabouts of the sh**house or the bog. Richard Avery (talk) 12:43, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

But the essence of a "bathroom" is that it should contain a bath!86.216.123.3 (talk) 12:59, 13 June 2009 (UTC)DT

Shouldnt the essence of a "water closet" be an actual closet? Alas, this isn't always the case Livewireo (talk) 13:25, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, possibly. But language moves on. Nowadays we don't only dress in the toilet and more than washing goes on in the lavatory. My bathroom does not contain a bathroom, and in Spain (yes I know, we're widening the argument now) the vast majority of bathrooms (cuartos de baños) don't contain baths. Time to move over to the language desk? Richard Avery (talk) 13:41, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Just be glad nobody has ever approached you int he subway to "see a man about a horse," or you would really be confused. :-) And, where I live in America, bathrooms without bathtubs are technically "half baths." So, they are looking for half baths, but the size of the "half bath" in a subway is bound to be much bigger than the bathroom *with* bath of 90% of Americans. So, given the size difference, you should understand why they can't call what's in a subway just a half bath.:-) Somebody or his brother (talk) 13:46, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Communication has still occurred since you knew what they were looking for. Bathroom is more polite than many other options such as shithouse (to choose an extreme example). We could ask where the "restroom" is too but then not really anyone besides bums (using the subway example again) goes into a restroom to actually rest. We Americans also use the term toilet but less often possibly due to its perceived vulgarity (bathroom is a "nicer" word). But then "toilet" would be imprecise as well if we just needed to wash our hands or use a urinal. So really, it's just a quirk of language. Give it another 10-15 years and we'll have people here asking why we say that phones "ring" since they rarely ever contain actual bells anymore. And there are probably kids in school right now who have never actually heard an old style telephone ring and have never even seen a rotary dial. Now they just sort of warble and beep at you. Er, the phones warble and beep, not the kids. Dismas|^(talk) 17:59, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

The Yank/Brit miscommunication on the word toilet seems to be in play here. Americans do use the term, but for something different.

In the UK, as I understand it, the toilet is the room. In the States, the toilet is the thing you sit on. "Changing clothes in the toilet" is a very strange image — your socks would be wet afterwards. --Trovatore (talk) 19:30, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Cecil Adams has done a couple of columns bemoaning the fact that there is no surviving English word for "Bathroom" which is not a euphemism. [14] APL (talk) 21:53, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Don't forget the military usage of head and latrine. On a side note, burning human waste is... an experience. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 12:39, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Americans don't have latrines. Instead they have girl's powder rooms and comfort stations. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 18:29, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Try to tell that to a Boy Scout. Dismas|^(talk) 18:58, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Scouts also have the biffy and kybo.

A priest is taking confessions. A vagrant enters the confession box and sits down but says nothing. After a while the priest knocks impatiently on the dividing wall. The vagrant says "It's no use asking me, there's no paper in here either". Cuddlyable3 (talk) 13:34, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Call it a washroom, then. ~AH1^(TCU) 00:52, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

People from Laos

What are people from Laos called? —Preceding unsigned comment added by PVignolo (talk • contribs) 10:37, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Laotians or Laos. Algebraist 11:22, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

See the infobox on the right hand side of the Laos article where it says "Demonym". Dismas|^(talk) 12:48, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Note that instead of/in addition to the demonym for the country, they may identify more strongly with their ethnic identity, especially if they are not an ethnic Lao. A person originally from Laos might prefer to be called Hmong, Yao, Dao, or Shan, especially if they disagree with the current socialist Laotian government. (e.g the Hmong who moved to the US after unsuccessfully fighting in the Laotian Civil War.) -- 128.104.112.114 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:13, 13 June 2009 (UTC).

roketa engine repair

I have a four wheeler for my grandson and need to set the timing on it if anyone can help! I have been trying all ave. to no avail. It is a 110cc roketa engine. Can anyone please help me with this. Thank You.12:09, 13 June 2009 (UTC)~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.249.75.220 (talk)

Seems as though nobody had answered you, so I will try a suggestion: Why not turn to a mechanic or repair shop in your area? Judging by your IP, this shouldn't be a problem where you live. Hope this helps. --Ouro (blah blah) 20:43, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

There are some basic maintenance and tuning instructions in this document from our friend Google. The complete workshop manual is $30 from this US storeif you can wait that long. - KoolerStill (talk) 06:48, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

New Article

A few days ago, I created my first article, Sunny Sohal. It was a decent-sized article, with 4 paragraphs. Now, when i see it, I find just one line, and a box saying "This article is a stub. Please help expand it." I don't know what to make of this. Can someone please help me? Rkr1991 (talk) 12:54, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Your text was removed by R'n'B, as it was copied from http://www.sunnysohal.com in violation of copyright. Algebraist 13:53, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, yes i did pick up information from that site, but that;s about the only site which gave any reliable information. That was all the information I could get, and i could do nothing except dress up the language a bit. How do i go about correcting it ? Rkr1991 (talk) 14:13, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

For starters you should find a better source than a random website which doesn't even say who wrote it, let alone where they got the information from. What makes you think it's reliable? (also, for future reference, this sort of question is better asked at WP:HD) Algebraist 14:19, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

I assumed it is reliable, as it is the guy's own homepage. Forgive me if I was wrong Rkr1991 (talk) 15:16, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Is it? I can't see anything that says that it is, and there's a disclaimer at the bottom stating that it is not. Algebraist 15:54, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

You might try adding to it by using Template:Infobox Football biography. Dismas|^(talk) 17:50, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

{{Infobox cricketer biography}} would be more appropriate. Algebraist 17:52, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

It's not a matter of reliable vs non-reliable evidence - you can't just copy text from somewhere else on the internet into Wikipedia - that's a breach of copyright...it's illegal...a very bad thing indeed! R'n'B did exactly the right thing - the offending text was removed - a link to a (possibly) relevent piece of information placed in the 'External references' section...what remains is indeed a stub and the stub-warning message applies. I suggest you rewrite the text that was removed in your own words - using the www.sunnysohal.com link as a reference to back it up. That should survive the editing process. Better still, try to find other sources to back up and expand the article. SteveBaker (talk) 18:42, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Finding another source would be best since the site claims at the bottom that it "... may not be accurate, complete or up-to-date." Dismas|^(talk) 18:46, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Two more points. You can find out yourself about who changed an article (at least, their Wikipedia username or the IP address they use) and why (or at least, what reason they gave, if any) by following the article's "History" link. That would be how Algebraist got the answer to your question.

And questions like this about Wikipedia are supposed to go to the Wikipedia:Help desk, not the Reference desk.

--Anonymous, 21:07 UTC, June 13, 2009.

Heaps of stats and raw data on his profile at Cricinfo adn CricketArchive]] YellowMonkey (cricket calendar poll!) paid editing=POV 00:54, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

AC Adaptor for British Laptop to be used in S.Korea

What type of AC Adaptor should I need in order to use my British-bought laptop in South Korea? --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 15:29, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Mains power systems shows the voltage and plug type (it seems to be the same kind you'd need for France), AC power plugs and sockets#Type C. A laptop will have a smart switching power supply, so you need only get a physical adapter (the kind they sell in supermarkets or B&Q). If you're going to be there a while, and your laptop power adapter has a removable cable, then it's probably easiest to get a mains<->C5 cable, in a Korean electrical store. 87.112.85.111 (talk) 18:24, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, what I am actually worried about is the power supply needed. Korea operates on 110V, while the UK operates on 240V. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 14:43, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

There will be a sticker on the tranformer block of your laptop which will show the range of input voltages; it is extremely unlikely that an OEM laptop adapter won't be able to handle 110v (only nasty cheapo third party ones might not). They know laptops move around the world, so they build them with smart switching supplies. 87.112.85.111 (talk) 15:28, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Scientific descriptions for common items

...fifteen tonnes of pressed wheat extractions treated with sucrose; ten thousand litres of cold bovine lactation; twenty-five tonnes of the baked wheat extraction containing grilled bovine flesh and trace ingredients, along with chopped and fried tubers and fried and corn-extract-coated rings of vegetables of the allium family; one tonne of crushed mustard seeds mixed with water and permitted additives; three tonnes of exploded corn kernels coated with lactic derivation; ten thousand litres of coloured water containing sucrose and trace elements; fifteen tonnes of prepared and fermented wheat extract in vegetable juice; one thousand tonnes of soured lactic acid flavoured with fruit extract.

As far as I can work out...that's Frosties with milk, burgers in a bun with chips (fries for Americans) and battered onion rings, mustard, popcorn, some kind of fruit juice or equivalent, and fruit-flavoured yoghurt. Can anyone work out; what's the wheat extract in vegetable juice, and what's the lactic derivation that coats the popcorn? Vimescarrot (talk) 21:55, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree with all the above, but feel I should add that those are ridiculous scales of foodstuffs. Prokhorovka (talk) 22:15, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

It's for an army of one hundred thousand ScreeWee. Vimescarrot (talk) 22:18, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

How sad is it that I recognised the quote straight away? That second-to-last one always puzzled me; the fermented wheat extract in vegetable juice keeps bringing me back to alcoholic drinks, which is unlikely. You don't say, but the coloured water is probably cola or similar sugary soft drink (not fruit juice). 80.41.126.158 (talk) 00:24, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Oooo, "prepared and fermented wheat extract" = Monosodium glutamate? I'd wondered about Marmite, but I don't think it can reasonably be described as containing vegetable juice. We could be looking at some artificially flavoured juice or sauce? If we were looking at ketchup or brown sauce I'd expect other ingredients to feature prominently, such as vinegar. 80.41.126.158 (talk) 00:39, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Lactic acid derivation is butter, yes? Fermented wheat extract in vegetable juice something like a Bloody Mary, right? --98.217.14.211 (talk) 22:42, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Butter sounds right. (I'm not a popcorn person.) It wouldn't be a Bloody Mary in the context of the book; it's a foodstuff typically consumed by a twelve-year-old. Vimescarrot (talk) 22:53, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Wheat Frosties (corn)? Wheatabix (contains malted baley), Shredded wheat [15] or Frosted Mini-Wheats (contain high fructose corn syrup and gelatin) [16] more likely. coloured water containing sucrose and trace elements could be Kool-Aid or Coke if they allow for carbonated water. prepared and fermented wheat extract might be Sourdough but that wouldn't match "in vegetable juice" which might be V8 (beverage), Ketchup or Gazpacho. Some Asian recipes also use fermented wheat flour. Salmorejo might fit the bill, but that's not common.71.236.26.74 (talk) 01:12, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Vegemite? 152.16.59.190 (talk) 03:39, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

For all others who don't know right off where the reference is from: The novel is by Terry Pratchett and is called Only You Can Save Mankind. That, and the text in the novel narrows the foods down to something a 12 year old eats in Britain. In the book the breakfast cereal (fantasy brand), the burgers, fries and onion rings, and banana yoghurt are identified. (I thought the British called fries chips?)71.236.26.74 (talk) 08:34, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

We do. Vimescarrot (talk) 13:08, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Okay, the ten thousand litres of coloured water containing sucrose and trace elements was the fruit juice I mentioned. The lactic derivation was evidently butter; the prepared and fermented wheat extract in vegetable juice sounds like some kind of sauce, and judging by the replies it could be any one of a number of them... Vimescarrot (talk) 13:08, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

I would think that the coloured water referred to Kool-Aid or similar. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 15:24, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

I can't help but notice that that's a massive amount of fruit yogurt, even in comparison to the other foodstuffs. Is that part of the quotation accurate? John M Baker (talk) 21:09, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Interesting. The quote is accurate. How much does 10,000 litres of milk weigh? Seems strange that liquid (?) yoghurt would be measured in weight rather than volume. Vimescarrot (talk) 22:24, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Yoghurt can be the set-in-the-tub semi-solid variety, often called "Greek style", which is indeed sold by weight.

Soya sauce is extracted from the soya bean, and is fermented with the addition of wheat flour. But it would rarely be used on burgers. Tomato ketchup would be, but is not fermented. Black or HP sauce may be fermented and include tamarind juice.- KoolerStill (talk) 02:12, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

On second thoughts, looking at the quantities, it could be Bonox made up into a warm drink. The lactic thing would not be yoghurt, it would be junket, a custard-like sweet dish. - KoolerStill (talk) 02:25, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Ten thousand liters of milk would weigh about 10.3 metric tons. So, about 100 times as much yogurt/junket as there is milk. I suppose the real answer is that Pterry meant to write "litres," wrote "tonnes" instead, and never noticed the mistake.

Those aliens just like yoghurt. These guys e.g. sell it in 500g tubs [17], so that would make 2 million of those to wash down the tonne of mustard. It is a bit off in comparisson to the "colored water" 68.208.122.33 (talk) 04:26, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Has anyone figures out what the "prepared and fermented wheat extract in vegetable juice" is yet? John M Baker (talk) 17:08, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

I guess we won't know for certain unless someone asks him. Vimescarrot (talk) 11:59, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

June 14

More help with making our flag thingy please...

How do we make one of these?

The project here is that my sister has an adoptive Inuit child, Mom and I want to make a growth chart for him, styled on the flag of Nunavut shown here. This will be half a 4x8 sheet of plywood as the base, and the inukshuk itself and the star as separately cut pieces mounted - and the whole thing gets painted in the right colours. Mom has now accepted that saving 8 dollars by using spray paint is a seriously bad idea (except for the blue star, we've already tested using that can of paint, and it's small enough to saturate the whole piece). We've put on primer to satisfy the incredibly slurpy G1S sanded plywood, now we need to get the right paint mixes. The hardware store can't use RGB values for colour, but they can take a scan and mix the right colour of paint. Here are the current questions:

• What exact colour (or near-enough exact) do we want? Looking at this page, the actual colours used are all over the hue circle. I can't find an official Nunavut government spec for the colours, and I really have been looking. Advice or superior research skills on this would be appreciated.
• Assuming the correct colour-spec can be found, what is the best way to get this made into paint? My current thinking is to send some file or other to the pro print shop three blocks from here that has a colour-matched printer, get it printed on photo paper, then ask Rona to scan it. But should it be on photo paper or plain bond paper? Does it matter if I ask for the print using RGB or HSV or CMYK colour values?

This project is meant to be something that stays relevant for the next 20 years or so, that the lad can look at every single day to remind him of his growth in the world and the nature of his heritage as a descendant of a truly awesome people, so it's rather important to get it as right as possible. Any help/advice is appreciated! (And thanks for the earlier comments on using a jigsaw, it all turned out to be nothing that some 100-grit, followed by 240-grit, sandpaper wouldn't fix. :) Franamax (talk) 01:21, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Gold (color) might help. Two things to keep in mind: By the time the child can distinguish fine nuances in color the original you are painting now has likely faded or changed hue significantly. By the time the kid can understand the significance of the various colors you may be into him helping with painting the third incarnation. (If my own native heritage can serve as a guide that is well within standard philosophies of what might be called "keeping things for the ages".)71.236.26.74 (talk) 02:29, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree that gold is probably it. Flag of Nunavut has links that lead to descriptions of the color as gold. The Coat of arms of Nunavut also has a field that is described as gold. 152.16.59.190 (talk) 03:52, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

I really doubt it matters. Flags are rarely carefully colored - if you look at a dozen pictures of the original flag - you'll see a dozen different colors. But if you find a picture of one that you think is correct - print it out and take it to the paint store - they can match something like that perfectly - even from a small sample. SteveBaker (talk) 04:34, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, that's where the whole thing fell apart in the first place. We did print the image and the young lady did scan it at the paint store. But as it turns out, the particular printer has a radically different idea on what ink to spit from the nozzle as compared to the monitor's idea of what pixels to turn on. And I have no idea how either of those compare to what actually flies on the staff. I don't really want to match some arbitrary internet download, I'm wondering now whether I should buy an actual flag and take the colour-shot from that.

71.236, thanks for the valuable perspective, you are completely right. I should have mentioned that I'm a perfectionist. My left arm is still recovering from using a lining bar to sink the piers for the playfort on which the young fellow climbs. The tingling and numbness should be gone within a month or so, but man, that thing could take a meteor strike and he could still go out and play the next day (assuming the molten rock had cooled, but I could just hold him off the ground). My big problem here is what exact colour to start with in the first place. If I could only find a proper heraldic description, I could duplicate it and the paint store could shoot it. As it is, I have no idea what I'm chasing in the first place. Franamax (talk) 05:09, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

If you don't think the image on their government website is realistic enough [18] you could try contact them: Culture and Heritage Division Director of Culture and Heritage, Dr. Douglas Stenton, Tel: (867) 975-5524, e-mail: dstenton1gov.nu.ca looks about right. You might run into some cultural differences with the precise definition of colors, though. Some concepts don't translate well. Have a look at Color term. If my sources are correct, Inuktitut seems to have separate terms for blue and green (other than e.g. Navajo which lumps them) but the green term (tungoyortok) is derived from the same root as blue (tungortok) and has one suffix in common, any further divisions may not be recognized in the same way. There are two terms for yellow (kayok, koksortok) so you may have more luck getting a precise definition there. Red (aupaluktok) seems to cover the orange spectrum as well. (If you'd like some OR comparison try communicating the difference between 9:15 a.m. and 9:30 a.m. to someone used to thinking in units of sunrise, midday, sunset. Even if the words are understood, the idea may not register in the same way.) Looking at web examples I'd say go for vibrant colors and you're o.k. the idea is to represent golden sand and blue sea. So just go to Rona's paint chip board and try to find color hues that can symbolize that. Since the website says the red is in reference to Canada, you'll be o.k. if you use the same red as in that flag. (Image in my mind of little can of paint labeled Canadian flag red :-) Remember it's the idea (perfectly) expressed by the flag that's important, not matching some color code. 71.236.26.74 (talk) 07:18, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

The following descriptions of the correct printing colours for flags, as developed by Flags of the World came from this site:

The standard PMS Pantone colours are: 032, red; 286, blue; 354, green; 109, yellow; 165, orange; and 167, brown. Some frequent variations are: 185, red for 'Old Glory Red' also used in Australia; 280 blue, ditto; 355 green as in the flag of Saudi Arabia, etc. Gold is 116, as in the flag of Europe and of Germany, and silver is 420.

Perhaps this will be useful to a paint mixer. // BL \\ (talk) 04:20, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Don't rely on a coat of paint to protect the edges of the plywood against water intrusion, which would eventually separate the layers. Seal the cut edges with a two-part epoxy wood filler before painting, and ensure water can't penetrate behind the mounted sections. - KoolerStill (talk) 06:19, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Manchester Metrolink tram tickets

The Metrolink website says MetroMax off-peak tickets are cheaper from some stations... but cleverly doesn't tell us which ones.[19] Anyone know where, and what the difference in price actually is? 86.166.68.203 (talk) 05:42, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

I've done a bit of Googling but can't find an answer. Sorry, I think you probably won't get an answer on here as personal knowledge of Metrolink's fares structure is needed. You might get more success from a specialist forum such as railforums.co.uk.--94.196.69.216 (talk) 11:14, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Smurf drug

My friend told me about a drug called Smurf that makes people who take it think they are 3 inches tall and one guy took it and got hit by a train because he thought he was small enough to crawl under it. Is this true? --124.254.77.148 (talk) 09:08, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

There is a drug called LSD which can make you think all sorts of things. There is another one called Tamiflu which makes you do things you would never normally consider, so 'Smurf' might be another name for either of those, or others. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 09:32, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

(edit conflict) No, there's no such drug. But LSD often comes in the form of colorful blotters which can have colorful images printed on them, including images of cartoon characters, like the Smurfs. LSD can, among other things, cause your sense of physical proportions to change, so you could get the sensation that you're smaller than you are. The story could have its origins in LSD. But even though LSD alters your perceptions, it doesn't make you delusional. Really, this story has "urban legend" written all over it. (Additionally, getting people who cook up meth their supplies is called "smurfing", but that's got nothing to do with the behavior you describe.) -- Captain Disdain (talk) 09:36, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

This reminds me of a hilarious urban legend/old wives tale that parents used to tell their children that someone once took so much LSD they thought they were an orange/glass of orange juice, and were terrified of going to sleep lest they be drunk or spill. Prokhorovka (talk) 10:45, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

I just want to add that the line between "delusional" and "altered perceptions" can be quite thin while you are on LSD. I have seen people having very bad "trips" who were in the category that I would consider delusional (one fellow thought he had been murdered and that his friends were demons torturing his soul or something equally dream-like). LSD can, though it does not always, give your thoughts the coherency of dreams, which can be problematic. I doubt the three-inches-tall death stories, as there are a million urban legends patterned in such a way, but it can certainly make you think odd things. It is an amazing thing how a few micrograms of the right chemical and your brain's ability to cross-check reality from fantasy just goes out the window. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 13:50, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Was anyone else reminded of Let's Get Small? — I don't think I ever got delusions during my youthful experi-mentation with LSD. I did get impressions that solid things were moving, and while coming down I usually heard an irritating noise like a toy airplane; but never mistook these for reality. —Tamfang (talk) 07:32, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Smurf is a nickname for methamphetamine[20]. -- Q Chris (talk) 21:07, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

That orange juice story originates (I think) from a group at woodstock who had chill out tents (I would recognize the name but I can't remember it right now) and one of the organizers told a story on a documentary about someone who thought they were a glass of orange juice that would die if they tipped over and spilled. Shadowjams (talk) 08:08, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

June 15

Light vs. Dark colored jerseys

Why does the home team always wear the light colored jersey while the away team wears the dark colored jersey? 68.84.245.28 (talk) 00:49, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Which sport and which country are you talking about? I can think of many counterexamples to your thesis. -- JackofOz (talk) 01:43, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

It's the other way around in American football. —Tamfang (talk) 02:41, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

In the NHL it's changed at least twice. In the 1930s the home team wore the light uniforms. I think I remember reading, but it might have been in relation to some other sport, that this method was preferred because the light uniforms had to be laundered more frequently to look good and doing laundry was easier then they weren't also dealing with road-trip logistics. (Pro sports weren't a huge money-making industry back then, remember. Everything didn't have to look brand new and spotless. Also, travel was slower using trains.) By the 1960s it had changed and the home team wore the dark uniforms. This is the way that makes sense to me because from the fans' perspective it's "our guys in their full colorful glory vs. the other guys in white." Later it changed again and now they wear the light ones again. This time I remember the reason being given as promoting fan interest by making the variety of different visiting teams more visible.

I remember that the CFL has also reversed its rule on this at least once since the 1960s.

The Home (sports) article mentions this topic briefly, but it looks like something that someone threw together; it needs a rewrite with a broader perspective. --Anonymous, 08:47 UTC, June 15, 2009.

The NHL changed again and now the home teams usually wear the dark jerseys. I don't remember when this happened but it was fairly recently. But they also have third jerseys and throwback jerseys now, so it's still kind of random. Adam Bishop (talk) 01:44, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

For monochrome (black and white) photography and TV the teams should have different jersey brightness. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 13:51, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

In the NFL, the home team has the choice to wear white or dark jerseys and usually chooses to wear the dark ones. Just a guess -- colored uniforms probably sell better at the team shop, and teams want to wear their most marketable jersey at home. Not all teams choose to wear colored jerseys at home, though. The Cleveland Browns went years without wearing their brown uniforms at home. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 18:33, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

And in baseball, there is no rhyme or reason. As long as both teams wear different colors or styles, then it's OK. Traditionally, baseball teams wore white at home and gray or some other color on the road, but there are oodles of exceptions going back more than a century. These days, sometimes both sides end up with colored uniforms, which can lead to interesting results. (Although nothing like a game I recall from the 1970s, where the Oakland Athletics wore green and the Baltimore Orioles wore orange. Yuk!)— Michael J 22:17, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Just for completeness, consider soccer/football: if one team or the other looks too much like the referees, it's the referees who change shirts!

--DaHorsesMouth (talk) 01:26, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

How do I add those stuff like editing your signature and adding picture to your profile?

Like how do I edit my signature?Stick2012 (talk) 03:21, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

On your user page, click on "my preferences" which is likely at the top right of the page after "Stick2012" and "my talk". Go down the first page that opens to the signature box and enter your signature the way you want it to appear. (I can't help you with coding.) Then save. // BL \\ (talk) 03:35, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

(ec) At the top of the page, there should be a link, 'my preferences'. Click it. Down a bit is a box the says 'Signature:' and an input field. Put the code you want in there. Be sure to check 'Raw signature'. Save at the bottom. ÷seresin 03:37, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

If by "your profile" you mean your userpage, you can add a picture by ... well, this page explains it pretty well. Although I don't think you're allowed to upload a picture to Wikipedia purely for your own userpage - though I'm not certain. By the way, this question might have been better on the Help Desk. Vimescarrot (talk) 09:37, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Microsoft Wikipedia

Couple weeks ago I came across some Microsoft sponsored(owned?) web site that had link to enhanced Wikipedia articles. And it was possible to browse enhanced Wikipidia just like ordinary one. I quite loved it. But now I could not find a way of how to get there. Is it still available? If yes, dose anyone know a link? Vitall (talk) 03:29, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Microsoft has a new search engine called Bing which produces Wikipedia pages from their own mirror site. I don't know how "enhanced" they are. Type Bing into Google to find them. - KoolerStill (talk) 04:26, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

No mention of it on WP:Mirrors and forks. APL (talk) 06:35, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

My mistake to call it a mirror. It is a "reproduction" of the WP page on Microsoft's servers as a "Reference" page. Apparently it is just copied, how often is not known, according to this The Register article.- KoolerStill (talk) 07:07, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

No luck with Bing, but... Thank you guys! I actually found it. That was powerset.com Like Mantle (mollusc) or any WP article instead of mantle etc. Strangely enough, PowerSet have something to do with Bing. Thanx anyway, Vitall (talk) 08:48, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

I tried the "factz" switch. "pallium knew adjective," "pallium cloaked words," "form flaps siphon". Interesting factz. Contributions/81.131.7.83 (talk) 10:20, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Best Chemistry Books

What are the best chemistry books that one can follow without the help of a tutor, and prepare oneself for IITJEE?? 117.194.227.19 (talk) 04:02, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

I am a student from IIT Madras. First you must be thorough with your School/CBSE textbook. as nowadays most of the questions are asked from there. I would recommend Disha's O.P. Aggarwal for Organic, O.P.Tandon for physical and Inorganic Chemistry as primary sources. Add to that P.Bahadur to work out problems, I think you'll make it, but don't forget, if you're thorough with the CBSE reader, you've done 50% of the job. Rkr1991 (talk) 07:14, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

And what about the best maths and physics books? 117.194.227.223 (talk) 13:27, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

For Maths M.L.Khanna is very good, supplemented by the Arihant series. For Physics, the Arihant series does a wonderful job. Just read the textbooks (preferably older version subjective type) and the objective books from Arihant and you'll be fine. In addition, about 4 months before you write JEE, take a nice All India Test Series, like that of FIITJEE. I think these are the essentials. Beyond that its up to your time and effort. Rkr1991 (talk) 15:02, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Knots

what are the different methods of tying knots?Shraktu (talk) 05:41, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Knot theory has many interesting links. List of knots may be more what you are looking for. If you don't have time to go through the entire list knot has a few examples. Googling Macramé instructions is another thing you might try. 71.236.26.74 (talk) 06:07, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Google "Ian knot" — IIRC some guy named Ian has a Web site which lists about a zillion ways to tie your shoes.—msh210℠ 16:35, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Rivers in Ghana

State the reasons why rivers in Ghana are navigable —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.201.34.170 (talk) 05:50, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

We do not answer homework questions. 117.194.226.183 (talk) 05:52, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Navigability and Geography of Ghana#Rivers and lakes may help.71.236.26.74 (talk) 06:14, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

how can i connect the barionet in lan and how it works?

how can i connect the barionet in lan and how it works? please help me with diagram —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sreejithva4u (talk • contribs) 06:35, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

We'd love to help, really we would. It's just that we absolutely have no idea what you're talking about. Can you ask your question in a clearer way? -- JackofOz (talk) 06:42, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Barionets are some kind of remote control device, allowing control of surveillance, security and other equipment remotely, eg by internet. I think he wants to connect one to his LAN. I also think there would be instructions in the packet, if he's already bought one. This article might explain some of it - KoolerStill (talk) 07:16, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Or if not, why not ask on the Computing reference desk? --Anonymous, 07:48 UTC, June 15, 2009.

(Wow! Good call! I was assuming the OP was interested in getting in contact with a Baronet called Ian.) It seems that these Barionets are made by http://www.barix.com - so I would start there. You can find downloadable manuals for all of their products here - so all you need to know is the part number of the barionet you're trying to talk to - and the manual should tell you the rest. SteveBaker (talk) 14:01, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

It's this damn sans serif font that WP uses. I don't know how many times I've been asked on various forums and such why I call myself LAN. (My name is Ian, with an i) Dismas|^(talk) 03:53, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

It even enabled some vandalism/trolling a while ago, sparking a scare about the security of people's accounts. Someone was registering usernames that resembled admins', with I for l and l for I :) I believe they worked a fix, although I can't help but feel a different font would solve the problem more elegantly, and aid readability. 86.168.62.94 (talk) 16:23, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Short story about a kid who finds out that he's poor

Does anyone know what the name / author is of this short story? A kid is at school and his teacher tells the class that they are going to do things to help the poor. The kid feels great about this and is all excited about helping them out. When he gets home his parents seem uninterested. When he goes back to school the next day he has nothing to offer. The teacher is OK with it. I think it is the next night that the kid figures out for himself that his family is one of the poor families he had heard about. Before then he had no idea. It was the only life he had ever known.

I have no idea when the story was written, but I read it about 30 years ago. That's so long ago I may not even have the story 100% correct. --69.254.66.245 (talk) 08:04, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

If no one can help you here, I suggest you ask a children's librarian, especially one who's been working as a children's librarian for some years. They can often help with such questions. Good luck.—msh210℠ 16:32, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't remember this being considered a children's story. --Contributions/69.254.66.245 (talk) 18:12, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, that was a bad assumption. A librarian, then, though in my experience children's librarians can answer these types of questions about kids' books more often then general librarians can about general books.—msh210℠ 21:12, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Someone found it for me. Great story and very short. [21]

Getting a booking as a speaker on United States colege campuses, etc.

Clients owe me money, I've got big bills coming due for liability insurance, and money is really tight. But, this I have: Great speaking ability and lots of stuff I've overcome. I'm legally blind, partly deaf, have some cerebral palsy (though I can walk well & be understood well), a possible hint of Asperger's Syndrome, yet hold 3 degrees, have been a volunteer in my church for years, have been writing for a long time with gag ideas published in comic strips as well, and other things. I don't have a huge law practice or anything really noteworthy, I guess mine's quiet leadership, you might say.

My question is, how do I go about being a speaker? I'm thinking especially on a college campus, such as during Orientation Week. Or, are those usually booked even this late, and I'd need to polish things looking toward commencement exercises? I've begun to develop a resume highlighting my speaking, now do I just start e-mailing colleges offering my skills? I was considering Christian ones since they might accept me more knowing I could speak in that area, but the larger, state schools might be able to pay me more to fly out there and speak. (I'm actually on Social Security right now.) Or, do the larger state schools expect someone who has a huge resume of, shall I say, more "noisy" stuff, like lots of books published, etc.? Payment isn't a huge object, as long as I could get a ride there (or at least have a motel room reimbursed), I wouldn't mind only a few hundred dollars honorarium. I know most speakers don't make ltos of money. And, of course, even if larger schools wouldn't take me, I'm sure there are tons of small schools.

Obviously, an alma mater would be the first I'd contact, and I'm going to do that with College of Wooster today just because it's fairly close, and I could just get a ride there.

Thanks for any help and ideas, including other places I could speak.Somebody or his brother (talk) 11:24, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Googling "Become a Professional Speaker" returns lots of hits (some of which seem a bit dubious). But advice includes getting testimonials, joining Toastmasters International[22] (one of the most famous bodies in public speaking which provides practice and advice), gaining relevant credentials (qualifications, experience, starting your own business, etc), building a website showing your skills, putting together a promotional pack with photo/resume/other information that you can send to prospective clients, maybe trying for experience or work in sales/acting/radio/tv presenting, and contacting lots of people.[23][24][25] If you're good at speaking you should be able to sell yourself and convince people of your merits, so you need to get out there. But you're unlikely to make a lot of money, and it'll take a bit of time, so it's no solution if you've bills that need paid now. --Maltelauridsbrigge (talk) 13:54, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

I would think that you'd need to start small and work up to college commencement speeches. Start with local business groups or social groups of other kinds. See if your city has a venue where speakers regularly deliver lectures. I think you'd need a pretty solid record of this kind of thing before you could break into the big league. But it sounds like you have the right skills and attitudes...it's certainly worth a try. SteveBaker (talk) 13:55, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

To build up a resume history you could join/contact a couple of associations and support organizations. You have listed several challenges you have overcome that have organized people in similar circumstances whom you could speak in front of. Check out some of these [26], [27], [28] [29] [30] [31] [National Association of the Deaf] [32]. Note dates like "Cerebral Palsy Awareness Day" "Deaf & hard of hearing awareness day", "International Noise Awareness Day" and "World Sight Day" in your calendar. Get the contact information for local, state and national organizers and "put yourself out there". Once you have built a resume you could hook up with a couple of "for profit" organizations, business consulting companies or the like. I'm not sure colleges would be a reliable source of income. (Graduation season seems to be over right now and I don't know how long in advance they book speakers for next year.) You could hire an agent, but unless they work on commission that can turn into a costly mistake. See if you can get a relative to speak for you with places that don't like to be contacted directly. (There are a couple of those around). As others above I'm a bit in doubt that this could be turned into a short term solution for lack of funds. Another thing to keep in mind is that it is unlikely that you are going to be hired to speak on neutral topics like "Quantum fluctuation in a thermal vacuum" or "Religious groups as economic entities" you are going to end up marketing a lot of yourself. (Sometimes referred to as "selling your soul".) That can put a not inconsiderable strain on you and those around you. Make sure you have a plan B to back out to if it gets too much! You are also almost guaranteed to run into lots of people with their own agendas some of whom can turn out to be most unpleasant to deal with. (I could give you an OR list of highly decorated laureates and university deans and professors that are described with lots of colorful rude expressions by colleagues and others who dealt with them.) One thing you might consider is offering workshops to company executives. Looks like overcoming challenges is something they have to deal with currently and they might be willing to apply some of the strategies you've used. See if your local chamber of commerce would be interested. (Hooking up with a consulting company might make marketing such things easier, too.) Googling I came across Team Hoyt who seem to finance at least part of their activities with speaking assignments. 71.236.26.74 (talk) 23:22, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, all. Great links. It'll take me a while to follow all of them :-) Yes, overcoming challenges is one of the keys that I'm thinking of emphasizing. And, thanks for the note about being wary of those who are just out for their own benefit; that is one of the big problems I hope to try to avoid. You've been a great help.Somebody or his brother (talk) 00:04, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

US citizens travel abroad

what % of US citizens have traveled to 10 or more foreign countries? Contributions/65.121.141.34 (talk) 16:12, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

The "US Travel Association" site seems to have a lot of statistics, but skimming around it I didn't see this information. You may have better luck. Tempshill (talk) 03:16, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

That is information that could only be produced by doing a consumer survey - and I doubt that everyone would give a truthful answer. Mowsbury (talk) 18:38, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Secret agents in tuxedoes

Why do films and comics so often depict secret agents wearing stylish tuxedoes while on missions, especially when the missions are very dangerous? Wouldn't normal street clothes both be less conspicuous (and thus actually help them be so secret) and more durable and comfortable to wear? And for missions that are extra-dangerous and have no need for conspicuosity some kind of army overalls would work better. What's the reason for this cliché? And what do real secret agents wear on duty? JIP | Talk 17:37, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

This probably started with the James Bond films, which often depicted 007 in a tuxedo, often in some expensive hotel or casino. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 17:54, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

It depends a lot on the crowd you're trying to blend in with. If you're trying to fit in socially with high society top government officials to pump them for information, then you're going to want fancy dress.

But yea, mostly it probably comes from James Bond, and just a general desire for the character to be glamorous. APL (talk) 18:06, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm ... maybe fancy dress should be added to the List of words having different meanings in British and American English, the idea of secrent agents going in fancy dress is quite amusing -- Q Chris (talk) 07:38, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

"What do real secret agents wear"? You'll never no. However, I suspect it's just like an actor. Whatever fits the character he is playing. --Contributions/69.254.66.245 (talk) 19:26, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Of course I understand that with most secret agents, no one knows what they wear, that's the whole point. But surely there must be at least some secret agents who have shed some light on this, not necessarily specific people and occasions, but on a general level. At least Ian Fleming, the inventor of the James Bond mythos, was a former secret agent himself, so he must have brought some part of it into public knowledge. JIP | Talk 20:22, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm sure secret agents, such as Paramilitary Intelligence Officers of CIA's SAD/SOG, wear local clothing to blend in with the local population. Similarly, when attending a high-end function, they will wear tuxedos/dresses to blend in with the immediate crowd. Acceptable (talk) 21:07, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

I think it's all part of the game that film makers engage in. The stereotypical baddie in those sorts of movies is always immensely rich, smarmily self-important, speaks in refined language, is a master of the dramatic flourish or entrance and has a great taste for doing things in a theatrical way, always uses overly formal modes of address, has refined tastes, is somewhere in the twee/camp spectrum, and is supremely confident that his plans to take over the world or whatever will succeed. And they never do. -- JackofOz (talk) 21:51, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

You'll be able to find out the answer soon enough; the WSJ has reported that MI6 is planning an "espionage ball" for their 100th anniversary. It is going to be wall-to-wall spies wearing tuxedos.

Some people in Britain's tightknit intelligence community grumble that, even though the agency has done its best to keep the event under wraps, it is not appropriate for MI6 to be holding balls. "It's a secret service, for God's sake," said one individual familiar with the plans.

Tempshill (talk) 22:25, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Okay, so why publicize this? And, do they invite their wives? Doe sthis mean they tell their wives, "I'm a spy?" But, doesn't that risk blowing their cover? (Although, perhaps their wives don't know what exactly they do with MI6; it's not the Manhattan Project, so I suppose they could tell close family, but...it still raises questions, as it doe sthe mind of the person quoted.

Unless the ball is part of a ploy to catch a double agent or two? LOL, I've read too many thrillers, huh? :-)Somebody or his brother (talk) 00:09, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps it was an excuse to compose the sentence "it is not appropriate for MI6 to be holding balls." Tee hee! Adam Bishop (talk) 00:30, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

I like how the unnamed individual was very careful not to say "Spies don't have balls" or any close variation. APL (talk) 03:38, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

To answer the question above, I gather intelligence officers are allowed to (and usually do) inform immediate family and partners about their job. Prokhorovka (talk) 08:43, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

We are not supposed to tell. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 11:10, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

I would expect that not everyone in MI6 is a field agent either. The CIA has people who are in things like admin, HR and accounting. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 13:38, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

June 16

Course selection

I'm a university student. After I graduate, I want to become a god. What courses should I take? 70.48.196.81 (talk) 04:48, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Omnipotence 101. Followed by Omniscience 101, Omnipresence 101, and Ineffability 101. -- JackofOz (talk) 04:56, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Always take Omnipresence 101 first, because after that you can take all the other courses simultaneously.DJ Clayworth (talk) 15:07, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

If you passed omnipotence, you could just give yourself a passing grade in all the other courses anyways. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 20:21, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

You could take a BSc in computing and become a Unix administrator.- KoolerStill (talk) 05:00, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

You could become a starship captain and discover a technologically-backwards planet. It will also help if you save them from a malevolent computer that that they already worship as a god. Adam Bishop (talk) 05:29, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Take a writing class, and write some epic poems about yourself being god-like. If they're good, and survive, you'll become ingratiated in the mythology of a distant future civilization. --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 05:47, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

How do you imagine they exam Omniscience 101 ? "Q1: write down your mark for this exam" maybe ? Gandalf61 (talk) 15:39, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

I would expect the grading scale to be brutal, with anything below perfection constituting a failing grade. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 20:19, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

L. Ron Hubbard might be a role model of sorts. Follow his route, but make sure your books say you are a god. 86.168.62.94 (talk) 16:18, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Assuming by god you mean 'general operations director' you should probably take some sort of business-related course, maybe an MBA in something? 194.221.133.226 (talk) 08:59, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Well as gods aren't mortal human beings, the first thing you should do is die! --TammyMoet (talk) 09:11, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

"As man now is God once was, and as God now is man may become". Check with your friendly local mormon whether that is as inherent in their church's doctrine as Google searches suggest. If convinced, proceed as they suggest. Vaya con Dios. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 10:53, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Found your own religion, then worship yourself. If you wish to be the god of more than one mortal, take courses in leadership, public speaking, marketing, advertising, and administration. -Arch dude (talk) 13:58, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

I would suggest some courses on mythology, so that you might have a pattern. You should also decide your course of study based on whether you wish to be benevolent, or malevolent. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 14:15, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Your god-status has already reached the necessary degree of unfalsifiability...I say you go for it immediately. You might also like to know that my wife is the actual tooth fairy. She always told my son that the tooth fairy was real - then when she accidentally woke him up during the course of replacing an under-the-pillow tooth with a quarter, she was forced to admit that she is in fact the tooth fairy. Proof! SteveBaker (talk) 15:26, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Study psychology and sociology, with side studies in theology, all specialising in the dynamics of cults. Once you're set, build up your charisma and look for some serial cultists. Steewi (talk) 01:57, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

You could study anything you'd like. Take a couple of classes in psychiatry so you'll know what questions to expect then check yourself into a Psychiatric hospital. You can be god if you can convince the staff. You might upgrade your career to Napoleon or Ceasar later. Reportedly they usually get a couple of those. 68.208.122.33 (talk) 03:56, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Expulsion for heresy

In Catholic seminaries, can a student be expelled for heresy? NeonMerlin 05:14, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

To warm their spirits on a cold day they might have an Auto da fe. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 11:00, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Might they? The article discusses it as a historical thing which hasn't been used in anything like recently. Could you supply a link for it being something relevant to students in Catholic seminaries in the present tense? 86.168.62.94 (talk) 16:16, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

A Catholic seminary is only for Catholics in communion with the Church, specifically those preparing for the priesthood. A heretic (if found out) will be excommunicated, which means tossed out of the Church, therefore no longer eligible to become a priest, therefore not eligible to attend the seminary (although he'd remain a Catholic as baptism cannot be undone). According to this website excommunications still happen in modern times, inter alia in the USA. But it's not a site I'd accept as a NPOV source. - KoolerStill (talk) 22:53, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Of course excommunications still happen, why wouldn't they? It's usually not a big deal though, and can be easily undone. In university there was a big seminary across the street, and the students sometimes ate in our cafeteria...we once asked what could lead to excommunication, although I forget what the major reasons were (pretending to be a priest was one, and I think procuring an abortion was another). We didn't think to ask if they could be expelled for heresy though! Adam Bishop (talk) 00:55, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

The normal line of the Catholic Church is that a heretic has excommunicated themselves by advocating their views. There doesn't need to be a 'ceremony' or formal procedure.

What doesn't happen is that if some student expresses a view that doesn't line up with church teaching they are immediately thrown out. Most seminaries are places where a certain amount of discussion, even argument, can take place. DJ Clayworth (talk) 15:05, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Poker question: Which hand wins?

A few friends and I were playing Texas Hold 'Em. At the end, the cards in the middle were: 2, A, A, 4, 4. One of my friends held a 5 and an Ace. My other friend held a 2 and an Ace. Both claimed they won the hand, and I couldn't settle the argument. Eventually they split the pot, but I'm curious: which of them actually won the round? --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 05:48, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

It was a tie. Both had a full house, Aces full of fours. Only five cards count—both had the same full house. ÷seresin 06:10, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Yep, poker hands consist of 5 cards and 5 cards only, since a full house uses all of them kickers have no influence. Prokhorovka (talk) 08:40, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

They did the right thing in the end. They should have, and did, split the pot. In hold'em you also occasionally get a situation where the 'board' has the best hand; that is the best five cards for everyone are the five community cards. In that case, everyone who has not folded splits the pot... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 13:19, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Classic case of a split pot. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 14:12, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Dyeing a merino wool pullover?

I have an expensive light color merino pullover that unfortunately became stained when i washed it with other clothes. Stain does not go away no matter what and I dont have the heart to throw it away as it is expensive and fits quite well. Besides the stain problem, it gets dirty quite easily due to its light color and dirt does not go away easily either. Iam thinking about dyeing it black to solve both of the issues. Any words on the dye or the pullover and possible pitfalls in this procedure please?. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.220.46.24 (talk) 12:08, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Use cold water dyes otherwise it might shrink.--88.109.188.173 (talk) 20:14, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

The stain problem won't go away with dyeing because whatever the stain altered in the fiber structure of the wool is also going to alter the absorption of dyes. Try throwing it in the wash with something dark brown or some jeans (cold water) and add some vinegar instead of fabric softener. (Don't use detergent that contains bleach.) That should give it a darker hue. If you want to go for a greyish shade you could try dark green or purple fabrics. Then put a sew-on or iron-on applique e.g. [33] on the stain. (Have an alterations person stitch the iron-on in place, don't actually iron it on, the glue will mess up your wool.) There are some types of dirt that show quite well on black. 68.208.122.33 (talk) 02:24, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Best before date

I got a can. It made in USA and it say that best before is printed on top. The only thing that printed there is a string "2100632400FG15088 USA P770" Is it possible to tell best before date from that string? Or I have to throw it away? DeadlyPenguin (talk) 12:12, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Sometimes they say 'printed on top' and it's printed around the top edge, or even on the side or bottom. Have a look around other parts of the can for a different set of figures that look like a date.Popcorn II (talk) 12:36, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Have you tried looking at the label? Have you tried calling the manufacturer or producer of the canned good in question? --Blue387 (talk) 13:27, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Goods in undamaged cans will generally be fine for years after the "best by" date, which is more like "best buy it quick so we can get paid". Sounds like a perfect time to use the powerful chemoreception equipment attached to the front of your face. --Sean 16:43, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

I suggest you open it, sniff it, look at the color, then taste it. Canned food keeps pretty well. Best before dates are misleading and there is currently a campaign in the UK to get rid of them. I've just eaten beans from a can with 2007 on the bottom.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 16:41, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

A man ate a roast chicken in a can from 1963. (He ate it in the 2000's sometime.) Vimescarrot (talk) 17:35, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

In the UK a 'best before' date is merely an advisory date to ensure the food taste/appearance/consistency is as you would expect. A 'use by' date indicates that the food should not be consumed after that date. I'm not sure if this would apply to products from the US but [[34]] might shed light on it. I have no links but I have read about people eating canned foods from the 2nd World War with no ill effects --87.115.23.15 (talk) 17:38, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Your other option is to use the old tested methods that we used before the marketing scam of 'consume by' and 'best before' arrived. We would look at it so see if it looked OK, you know, no moulds or critters. Then we would smell it to see if it was off, did it smell rancid, putrid, rotten or 'a bit iffy' and then if we had any further doubts we would cautiously taste it. If it tasted as you expected with no odd flavour then, by jingo, we'd eat it. Here I am quite a few decades later. Richard Avery (talk) 18:43, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

"It never did me any harm!" (But I agree that "sell by" on canned goods is probably mostly a marketing scam to get you to repurchase.) Tempshill (talk) 23:02, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

I say this with the greatest gratitude and humility: may I never be so poor or so isolated that I have to eat food that smells "iffy" or has run past its "sell by" date! // BL \\ (talk) 02:41, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

When I lived on my own, I assumed food that had gone a couple of days past its expiration date was okay, as long as it was in the fridge. The fridge is a magical place that keeps all food safe! Adam Bishop (talk) 07:22, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Those dates always seem arbitrary. Have there ever been scientific studies showing the long term health effects of eating food canned with the current processes 20 years beyond the date stamped on it? Heck, they put those dates on bottles of water. How would those possibly spoil? 65.121.141.34 (talk) 13:42, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

As noted all these dates will have 'give or take' implied. The level of that give-or-take is up to you to decide. As noted some things have dates where theoretically they shouldn't ever need a date, somethings like fruit/veg etc. can go off before the use-by date or can last long-beyond it, it really is a matter of judgement. A friend of mine has no sense of smell so he uses the best-before/use-by dates quite religiously because he feels that (with the exception of visible off-ness) he can't really be certain so would rather not take the risk. Personally I constantly eat fruit and veg after the best-before date, regularly have condiments and spreads that are opened and not consumed within the guidelines. I cut the mould of cheese and eat the bit below, I chop the end of a cucumber and carry on with the good bit - it's usually pretty obvious whether or not something is past its best. ny156uk (talk) 15:31, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

checkmate

hello! i just wanted to ask if in a chess match, is it necessary to say "check" while the opponent's king is in check, and also "checkmate"? and supppose, let's say, i have my opponent's king in check and if the king has only one safe square to move onto, and my opponent doesn't know about that, should i tell him? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.50.137.180 (talk) 13:46, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

You are required to, if neither you nor your opponent notices until the next turn problems arise, but usually the game will be painstakingly taken back turn by turn until the original check occurred. Prokhorovka (talk) 14:01, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Interestingly, calling "check" is rare in professional games (see Rules of chess). ZabMilenko^{How am I driving?} 15:00, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

I had no idea professional rules where so strict. I find it useful, for some reason, to touch the piece I'm thinking of moving while I work out the potential responses. Looks like I'll have to give up my dreams of becoming a grandmaster. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.115.23.15 (talk) 17:23, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

No. In a real chess match or tournament one is not required to announce "check." If you do call "check," be sure to do so before pressing the clock, as calling "check" while your opponent's clock is running may be construed as annoying your opponent. Most players have enough sense to resign before they are actually mated, but a quiet "Mate" will suffice. B00P (talk) 22:08, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

So "Who's the man?!", high fives with the crowd and the "nah-nah-nah-na-naaah-nah" victory dance are right out then? SteveBaker (talk) 00:33, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

However, if he moves his king into check (or lets it remain there) you can't capture his king and declare victory, you have to inform him that his move was invalid, then he'll probably ask you to explain why. If you think your oponant probably won't notice the check, it's worth saving time by just pointing it out when you're making the move.

The game can't really proceed until he knows about it. APL (talk) 15:44, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Kidnapping question

The recent kidnapping case here in Finland caused me to think of a question: According to newspapers, the kidnapper threatened to kill the victim if the police was to be involved. Why would he kill the victim? That would only cause him to lose his only advantage, and thus his only hope of ever getting the money. Wouldn't it be a better option just to keep the victim imprisoned, but still alive and perfectly healthy? JIP | Talk 17:08, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Not much of a threat, is that? "If I see cops running around trying to find me, helicopters buzzing overhead, dogs barking, I'll keep my victim perfectly healthy! So don't do that! I'll make her eat her vegetables and wash behind the ears and floss! That'll show you!" If you are a criminal maybe the cops will limit their actions if you threaten with retribution. If they keep on coming you haven't lost anything by trying the threat. 62.78.198.48 (talk) 17:52, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

You have needlessly picked on my choice of wording. What I meant was simply not either killing or freeing the victim, but continuing the situation as it is, until the victim's family gives in to your demands. If you kill the victim, then I don't see any way the situation could ever turn to your advantage after that. So why would any kidnapper in his right mind do that? JIP | Talk 17:55, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

It's not the doing, it's the threatening. Perhaps in a single-shot kidnapping it's not reasonable to carry out the threat. In a systematic organized business of serial kidnapping (see Somalia pirates, South America, Middle East, Far East, whatever) killing works because next time they'll know you are serious. For a single-shot case the question the cops need to consider is "is this guy crazy enough to carry out his threat, out of spite, even though it isn't reasonable if you are into mathematical logic". If the answer to a ransom note is "no, we won't pay, we'll send in the cops instead" then the kidnapper might kill the victim because he knows he'll never get any money and a dead victim isn't going to tell where she was being held. A well hidden dead body with a chance of a getaway may be better than an endless guaranteed-not-to-work ransom bargaining. 62.78.198.48 (talk) 18:09, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

On the opposing side, Frank Herbert's Fremen correctly gamed the system by promptly holding a funeral for any of their people who were captured and held hostage by the Harkonnens; the hostages were assumed to be dead already (or as good as dead), and the tactic of kidnapping was neutered. Tempshill (talk) 18:42, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

I love thos books, and games too. Prokhorovka (talk) 18:54, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Also remember that the rationale don't really commit crimes like this. If you have coherant, working thoughts, then you reach the reasonable conclusion that kidnapping people is likely to go bad for you. So throw any explanation that requires the kidnapper to be well-thinking out of the window. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 20:05, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

There are also cases, from time to time, where they promise to return the person, but do kill them once they've collected the money, so the hostage cannot identify them. In some cases the person is already dead (accident during the kidnap etc) when they ask for the money. Kidnappers have no rulebook to follow, and tend not to be the most stable and logical criminals anyway.The more expert ones might send a finger or ear to demonstrate the person is still alive but will be maltreated if the moolah is not forthcoming. - KoolerStill (talk) 20:27, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

I read from a newspaper that during a similar case in Sweden in 2005, the kidnapper took a photograph of the victim together with the latest issue of the newspaper to simultaneously demonstrate that he has the victim, the victim is still alive, and the photograph was taken today. According to what I think, this works better than sending body parts, which can just as well come from a dead body (the body part itself will be dead anyway by the time it arrives). Allowing the victim's family to speak to the victim works even better but carries the risk of the telephone call being traced. I have to say I can not think of any counterargument to killing the victim after collecting the money, other than not being able to do so (because of the family not paying until they can safely retrieve the victim) or because of it precluding any further kidnappings. JIP | Talk 20:36, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

A photograph of the hostage holding a recent newspaper is a classic proof of life and is used in many fictional accounts of kidnappings, and probably in many real ones as well. I think the main disadvantage to killing the hostage is that if you end up getting caught you'll receive a life sentence (or even death sentence, depending on the jurisdiction) for murder, rather than a potentially lesser sentence for kidnapping/false imprisonment. --Tango (talk) 21:57, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

This is related to a discussion about economics about "rules vs discretion" - an example: if you run a country, and people consistently build houses in flood-prone areas, do you give them money to rebuild their houses after the flood? For the single case, it is good to help people out, but in the long run, it makes more people build houses in bad places. A lot has been written about this problem in monetary policy (high inflation can have good effects sometimes, but once people expect it, it's not good anymore.) Jørgen (talk) 22:12, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

@ Tango, yes but the chances of getting caught are much higher if the victim can identify you. There is a similar "logic" at work when a rapist kills his victim (in cases where the killing is not part of the thrill) or the armoured-car robbers kill the driver. In all these cases, staying unidentified is advantageous for being able to repeat the crime, which may be regarded as sufficiently rewarding to take the slight chance of being caught for the heavier penalty. The trick is to stop repeating it (or vary the methods) soon enough to avoid being caught by the accumulation of smaller clues. For a one-off kidnapping it is better to leave the victim alive, but make triple sure their blindfold doesn't slip and don't wear a rare imported after-shave. - KoolerStill (talk) 22:40, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

"Slight chance" is an important part of this - almost by definition, criminals think they won't be caught, else they wouldn't commit the crime. To Tango's statement that the main disadvantage of killing the hostage is an increased prison term upon capture, we've got to add the note that to the criminal, this seems like a very minor disadvantage indeed, since in his mind he's not going to get caught in the first place. Tempshill (talk) 22:59, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Especially if he kills the victim/main witness. - KoolerStill (talk) 02:35, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

In some fictional works about kidnapping, the victim is careful to avoid looking at the kidnappers face, and welcomes a blindfold, to make it less likely the kidnapper will kill them to avoid conviction. Contrariwise, if the kidnapper kmakes no effort to avoid being seen, it is taken as an indication that the kidnapper is planning to kill the victim, so he/she might as well take any chance to knock the kidnapper in the head, stab him, escape, whatever, on the grounds of having nothing to lose. Edison (talk) 19:17, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Another, game-theoretically sound approach (as a victim) if things do not seem to be going the kidnappers' way is to suggest they get/fabricate some compromising material on you, such as telling them about (or documenting) financial fraud or having them taking pictures of you in compromising situations. They get to keep this material. That way you can credibly claim that you will not tell anyone anything about them after you are released, increasing the chance that they choose to release you. (However, that is probably too far-fetched even to be included in works of fiction...) Jørgen (talk) 19:52, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

It never did me any harm!

The titular line comes out all too often, often related to health-based things (washing hands, use by dates, anything that may cause cancer, etc). My current argument against this is "You're statistically insignificant." It rarely works. Is it accurate, and is there a better argument? (Wasn't sure whether this was maths, science, or language...) Vimescarrot (talk) 19:49, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Another argument which works in some such situations is 'how do you know?' The speaker has presumably been unwell at some point in their life: on what basis do they assume that their poor hygiene habits, eating habits or whatever were never to blame? Algebraist 19:52, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

If you find someone who puts on a blindfold and crosses a busy street, and they didn't get hit by any cars, its hardly an endorsement of that method of street crossing. Merely surviving an event which is harmful to most people does not make it something one should do on a regular basis. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 20:02, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

This counterargument about statistical insignificance can, to some level, be used to even question the laws of physics. For example, you could question the law of gravity by asking "What if it has, all along, been mere coincidence that things thrown up just happened to fall down? There's statistically nothing guaranteeing the next thing I throw up will fall down!" JIP | Talk 20:31, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Uhh...I don't see the link. Statistics is surely relevant to events which may or may not occur in one particular instance. Not to immutable laws of physics... Vimescarrot (talk) 22:59, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

My point was that the counterargumenter is questioning the existence of the laws of physics. He is claiming that things thrown up have always fallen down because they just happened to, not because of some immutable law, and that doesn't guarantee they will keep doing so. JIP | Talk 02:26, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Observer bias and Anthropic principle have a lot to do with it. If you are disposed to ignore the importance of hand-washing - then when you get an upset stomach - you'll be more likely to attribute it to "something I ate". Worse still, if you are one of those unfortunate people who died from not washing hands when appropriate - you aren't here to say "Well, no, actually, you really do need to do that. I didn't and it killed me!". Also, people are very bad indeed at understanding statistics. They worry to a ridiculous degree about exceedingly improbable things - whilst happily ignoring things that are statistically much more likely. People who are on a nice tropical beach will worry about being attached by sharks when they swim - whilst completely ignoring the statistically MUCH more likely risk of being killed by a falling coconut (true thing!). People worry a lot about the risks of flying in a commercial airliner - but ignore the much MUCH greater risks of driving a car. This gets silly sometimes - almost anyone without a science background will agree that the chances of flipping a coin ten times and getting the sequence: Head,Tail,Tail,Head,Head,Tail,Tail,Tail,Head,Tail is much more likely than getting ten heads in a row. People in general are simply not rational most of the time! SteveBaker (talk) 20:34, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

That line of argument is based on falsely interpreting "danger" to mean that the undesirable consequence will always follow. Danger is the potential for a bad result. You can get away with dangerous practices (such as crossing the street blindfolded) just so many times, before getting caught. The number of times depends on the level of danger. So it is a combination of language and statistics. "There's always a first time" would be an appropriate answer, but is probably too trite to influence anyone. A very knowing look and a muttered "we'll see..." might be more effective.

@Steve -- with coin-flipping there is a conflict between probability and empirical observation. Mathematicians prefer the former, gamblers the latter (and winning counts as confirmation, observer bias again conveniently forgetting the other times when they lost). - KoolerStill (talk) 20:51, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

"How do you know?" and "The people it did affect aren't around to tell us so" seem like the most likely answers to actually get a response more than just the "knowing look" ignorant people give me. I am right in saying that the one single person saying it did no harm to them is statisically insignificant, right? Vimescarrot (talk) 22:59, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes, you're right. If you are talking about common dangers, like your examples, it is so statistically insignificant, it is just a rounding error. It would show as zero.- KoolerStill (talk) 02:31, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

This is all about induction, but "inductivism is false" is probably an even less effective line to use, unless you've already explained what it is. You could try telling the story of Bertrand Russell's chicken. (In short, the farmer never did the chickens any harm, until the day he did.) 81.131.51.81 (talk) 06:59, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Of course your right Vimescarrot. 1 case doesn't prove an argument. The point I was making, rather to obliquely it seems, is that there were times when we didn't have such nanny guidance on our foodstuffs to tell us if it was still fit to eat. I referred to myself for the sake of the tone of my response but I was talking about people, ordinary people, everyday UK people who were able to decide for themselves if food was fit to eat or not. I am not aware that there was in pre-guidance times widespread food poisoning from eating bad food or starvation because people couldn't decide whether to eat food or not. It is a sad indictment on our personal liberty that we are obliged to accept such mundane and trite guidance in our lives, that we seem to have lost such a basic skill as being able to discern the palatability or edibility of our food. My main point was to say why are we thinking about the technical solutions to such a simple problem (where is the bb date? what does the code mean?), why not use probably the most reliable method, developed over eons, your senses and common sense. Lighten up a little eh? Richard Avery (talk) 07:18, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Oh so you're trying to provoke a debate on the Wikipedia RefDesk, which is not what we're about? Well for what it's worth, I usually say that the people whom it did harm aren't around to warn us and they expect us to have more respect for them than to ignore them. Take, for example, building regulations and health and safety in general. When people complain about the onerous nature of adhering to them, I generally tell them the story of a branch of my family, who were wiped out due to a building collapse in Birmingham a hundred years ago. The building collapsed because it was poorly built and there was no regulations nor inspectorate to make sure it was properly built. As far as best-before dates, of course there were outbreaks of food poisoning from eating bad food, just as there still are because regulations are ignored. There was a famous incident in Wales where a butcher was jailed because his poor hygiene led to deaths. So it does happen: people do come to harm. The real question is whether we expect the State to be one which tries to improve the lot of its citizens, or just stand back and wring its hands. There. You've had your debate. --TammyMoet (talk) 09:01, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

You could have just assumed I'm not having a poke at you. You seem to be the one attempting to spark this debate, since your comment was the first to say anything about it. I used the example of use by dates because it was what reminded me. The purpose of this question is to find a way to beat accurate information into a stupid person's head (read: my mother, and a few people in my social circle). Apparently, using a brick with said information written on it won't work... Vimescarrot (talk) 09:33, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

If the person is amenable to reason and logic - then this is an easy matter. If they aren't then there really isn't much you can say - you have to resort to the usual human methods of getting something done in the absence of reason and logic: Pleading, bribery, flattery, threats, violence and protest. SteveBaker (talk) 12:58, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

I think TammyMoet was replying to Richard Avery, in which case you've all got your indentation backwards. Argh. 81.131.27.135 (talk) 09:39, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

When people say this, they aren't saying that, because of their 1 observation, they believe the hypothesis (Y causes X) to be wrong. I think they're kind of saying the exact opposite of what you reply with. They are saying, sure, there's percentage of people who get X from doing Y, but because I am such a small sample size, statistics don't really apply to me, in that I'm not going to get 0.5% of cancer, chances are I'll get no cancer at all. Aaadddaaammm (talk) 11:50, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't know if we should take seriously such statements. The person may be aware of a risk in a behavior but may be choosing to engage in the behavior anyway. Rather than give a lengthy (some might argue irrational) explanation for what they are doing, they state an irrelevant fact. (It is true that "it never did them any harm," or at least they may know of no proof that it has actually done them harm.) Humans don't necessarily always communicate in a straightforward manner. We sometimes imply, and others are left with no choice but to infer. Bus stop (talk) 13:51, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

A guy I know will say things like "Well, we all played with mercury in chem lab, and it never hurt me-me-me" twitching his head sideways abruptly with each repetition. Edison (talk) 19:14, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

June 17

Looking for the name of a "true mysteries" TV show that aired on the Fox Family Channel

Hi all. I'm looking for the name of a "true mysteries" television show that aired in the US on the Fox Family Channel around 1999-2001. It was similar to shows like In Search of... and Unsolved Mysteries, and may have actually reused some footage from the former. The show had a host to introduce each segment, and I think each episode contained three segments, each focusing on a specific mystery. I remember seeing segments on the Bermuda Blob, twin languages, and the Lizard Man of Scape Ore Swamp, among other things.

Does this ring a bell with anyone? Thanks, Zagalejo^^^ 04:38, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

I think this question should go to the Entertainment desk. Rkr1991 (talk) 04:48, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Beyond Belief: Fact or Fiction? Nanonic (talk) 12:43, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

AFTER II PU

AFTER II pu science which field i have to opt for? I thought of taking aeronautical engineering or mechanical engineering. in which engineering i can get more salary. which is the easy option . Please answer... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.92.241.168 (talk) 11:47, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Neither option is "easy". Around here (Central US), they have very similar salaries at the starting level. What do you mean by AFTER II pu science? 65.121.141.34 (talk) 14:58, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Agree with 65, neither is "easy". I assume you're in India. Are you intending to stay in India, or work elsewhere? I googled "salary survey engineering" and found some sites that claim to be able to give you some salary data — you might give them a try, although the two that I looked at appeared to only have US data. An ex-mechanical-engineer-in-the-aeronautics-field friend of mine I talked to recently seemed skeptical about mechanical engineering, saying that electrical or electronics engineering was where all the engineering money is nowadays. On the other hand, if you're an aeronautics engineer, isn't the number of possible employers a lot lower? Tempshill (talk) 16:43, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

crime stats

Is there a website that lists the numbers of various crimes for many areas (within the US), as well as the % of each type that are unsolved? 65.121.141.34 (talk) 18:49, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Did you consider Googling "us crime statistics"? There's this, this, this, our article Crime in the United States, and over 18 million other hits. Tempshill (talk) 18:59, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes, but none of that has a solved vs unsolved ratio that I can find. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 20:27, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Luggage storage in Ireland

Hello all,

I'm backpacking around Ireland at the moment and I have a gigantic suitcase that I don't want to be carrying around with me (I have this suitcase because i actually MOVED to France).

I'm looking for somewhere that I can put my luggage for about a month. Most of the places are in Dublin, which is where I plan to end my journey, but I don't want to have to go there just to drop of a suitcase. I will if I have to, but is there any other way?

please let me know your suggestions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.46.106.30 (talk) 20:02, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

vegetarians

Are there any famous people who are vegetarian for several years and are obese? Someone I know told me there is no such thing as a fat vegetarian. And I would like to know of a contrary example if there is one. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 20:26, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

This (http://www.happycow.net/famous_vegetarians.html) might be worth a look. It's a huge list, gotta be a 'fatty' on there somewhere. Basically there's no reason why a vegetarian cannot get fat - they can eat most crisps and sweets like any other person and it is high-calorie + low-energy-expended that is the biggest cause of fatness. ny156uk (talk) 21:25, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Infact Ricki Lake is on there, and she has had issues with being overweight in the past. ny156uk (talk) 21:27, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Prince Fielder —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.45.232.112 (talk) 23:27, 17 June 2009 (UTC)