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May 26

Live from the Concertgebouw

The classical music station in my city plays a promotional sound byte for this program with some excerpt from a piece of music. Here is my attempt at a transcription: C F (going up) E C B G (going down) F G A B C# D# F (going up). The notes are: quarter, quarter, eighth, eighth, eighth, eight, eighth, sixteenth, sixteenth, sixteenth, sixteenth, eighth, half, played by brass instruments. Does anyone recognize this, or has anyone heard the clip? What piece is it from? 70.162.12.102 (talk) 03:58, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

I think it must be the opening motif of the last movement of Bartók's Concerto for Orchestra. (Midi version available here.) AndrewWTaylor (talk) 07:26, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

formal names

What are the formal names for the display and the edit areas for the same text? 71.100.8.229 (talk) 04:00, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

You could be talking about an online rich-text editor, a control which in some cases allows you to edit text in the same area where it will ultimately be displayed (e.g. on your blog). Then again you might be being utterly unclear. The display and edit areas of what text? Perhaps you want the article form (web), specifically textarea forms, which in the case of the display area could be set to read-only. 81.131.25.53 (talk) 04:49, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Panjabi Wikipedia

What is the current state of the Gurmukhi Panjabi Wikipedia? Like are there active editors?, how many articles does it have?, and stats on it.--Profitoftruth85 (talk) 04:29, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

See pa:Special:Statistics. :-) Killiondude (talk) 08:10, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Those statistics use numeral symbols as in Indian numerals#Other modern Indian languages. -- Wavelength (talk) 03:26, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

featured pictures- light fittings/lamps

I want to refer the featured pictures appeared during the first week of this month. There were about 80-90 lamp fittings were shown in that picture. I want to refer it again for further information. how can I access that picture? thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.43.25.100 (talk) 07:19, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

The directory of featured pictures is here. Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:31, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

The one you want is File:Eclairage.jpg. (The handy day-by-day archive of pictures of the day is Wikipedia:Picture of the day/May 2010.) Deor (talk) 10:35, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Star gazing + creation of synthetic life

1. When star gazing, I am able to easily see constelations such as the crab, and the full Orion, not just the belt but the skirt, arms. bow ect. Now obviously the ancient greeks could see this too, and in my opinion it is not difficult, so why is there speculation recently that these are difficult to make out?

2. Do we have an article on the recent synthetic life that was created. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.172.59.90 (talk) 09:31, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

On your first question, I am not sure there is any such recent speculation - do you have a source for this? On your second question, we have an article on Craig Venter who is the guy responsible for this work and a rather techy article on Mycoplasma laboratorium which I gather is what the recent breakthrough is about. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 09:40, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

To partially answer your first question, if you live in a city then the city lights will drown out all but the very brightest stars and planets. There has been a fuss made about that, and if you search for "Dark Skies 2010" you will find sites which tell you more. --TammyMoet (talk) 10:06, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

While the main body of Orion (ie, the shoulders, belt and feet) contains 1st and 2nd magnitude stars, the shield or bow of Orion contains a group of stars, all called Pi Orionis, none of which is brighter than magnitude 3.6, and the skirt (Upsilon Orionis, 29 Orionis and 49 Orionis) is no brighter then magnitude 4.5. In Cancer the brightest star is Beta Cancri with a magnitude of 3.5. In my experience, unless you are somewhere very dark, stars below 3rd magnitude are difficult to see with the naked eye. Certainly, where I live very close to London, it is difficult to see any but the brightest stars. If I use binoculars, I can then see too many stars which makes 3rd and 4th magnitude difficult to pick out from the background of fainter stars, particularly if the background is the Milky Way like it is in Orion.

I guess by synthetic life, you mean the bacteria mentioned in this BBC report. Indeed, the Craig Ventner mentioned above, is involved in that project. Astronaut (talk) 11:12, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Concerning Q2, I live just outside London, and when it is not raining, it is easy to see them so why? Thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.172.59.90 (talk) 14:11, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

I presume you mean Q1, and haven't looked at our article on Light pollution. If you go to Light_pollution#Effect_on_astronomy then you will see the effect for yourself. You probably live in an area where the light pollution has little impact on the visibility of the stars you quoted. --TammyMoet (talk) 15:23, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

To the original poster: Are you asking about why people say it is difficult to see stars, or are you asking about the psychological phenomenon of recognizing shapes and patterns when you look up at the stars? (Our Constellation article may be of interest, though it sadly lacks much information on the latter phenomenon.) Comet Tuttle (talk) 16:45, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

"speculation recently that these are difficult to make out" - I'm not sure what you mean by "make out". The others above interpret it to mean "see", in which case their answers are useful. If you mean "perceive", I'll chime in and say that I find the vast majority of constellations next to impossible to perceive, no matter how dark the sky (and bright the stars) as the patterns are so vastly different from the shapes they are fancifully supposed to represent, even if you take into account the motion of stars since ancient times. You need more than merely a good imagination to spot the patterns, you need an outstanding one. --Dweller (talk) 17:32, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

I hadn't thought of the OP's question in terms of being able to imagine the shape described by ancient greeks. I just assumed the OP lived in an area with no light pollution and therefore could easily see the stars despite their relative dimness (umm - is "dimness" a word?). Astronaut (talk) 23:16, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

I live 10km from central London but can only see the very brightest stars at night, I once saw the Milky Way from my back garden, but it was during a power cut. Alansplodge (talk) 09:01, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

That's a sad price to pay for urbanisation, or more to the point, electrification, Alan. I get to see the Milky Way in brilliant definition most every night of the year. But I'm three hours drive from the nearest opera house or symphony hall. Swings and roundabouts. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 11:31, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Gossip mongers

what is it with some people who gossip and create a veri amiable environment to a envious and destructive. what is their motivation in doing this and how does this help them...anyone please —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.95.140.188 (talk) 11:15, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

We have an article on gossip, which suggests that it serves the purpose of creating community while reinforcing social norms. The article suggests that some gossip to become closer to their communities, while others may use gossip to isolate and harm others. I also found an interesting Scientific American article that explores some of the evolutionary psychology behind gossip. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 11:27, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Payday

The above question got me thinking. Why do US employees generally get paid by 'check' evey 2 weeks (presumably they then have to take it to the bank and deposit into their account)? Here in the UK (and I believe in most of the EU), employees usually get paid monthly by a transfer into the employees bank account. Astronaut (talk) 11:29, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Many US employees get the option - we choose whether we'd prefer to have a check, or a transfer. Most of the people where I work choose the transfer. I don't really have any statistics other than my own work experience. We do still tend to refer to our payment as our 'paycheck,' even though there's no physical check to cash, possibly for the same reason that I might still say, "I'm going to the record store to buy an album," even though I'm not sure I even remember how to operate a record player any more. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 11:33, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

In the US you often have the choice of how you are paid (I have almost always been paid by direct deposit, as they call it—it just transfers in). Different jobs have different pay periods; most jobs I've had pay monthly, only a rare few paid every 2 weeks. --Mr.98 (talk) 12:24, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

My experience is just the opposite, with biweekly pay periods being the most common arrangement. Many states have laws regulating pay periods. -- Coneslayer (talk) 14:16, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

What kind of jobs were you each doing? In my experience in the UK, salaried jobs almost invariably pay monthly, while jobs with an hourly rate often pay weekly or fortnightly. --Tango (talk) 14:43, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

FWIW, employers often prefer employees to take the direct deposit option because it reduces the amount of paperwork (I don't understand the details, but am told this is so by people in the department) and also reduces the hassle of having cheques floating around out there un-cashed but still "on the books" as it were since they could be cashed at any time. Matt Deres (talk) 13:25, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

It varies in the US. In different jobs, I have sometimes been paid every two weeks and at other times, twice-monthly. A previous job gave me the choice to have a 'live check' or direct-deposit. My present job will only do direct deposit. That seems to apply even to the most senior employees. I think that at least a part of the difference is that in the US, there are typically very short notice periods for employees being fired or wanting to resign - two weeks either-way is common - so I suspect that there is a tie-in there somehow. In the UK, it's more common for 'salaried' employees to be paid monthly and 'blue collar' people weekly...but notice periods for salaried employees are typically much longer. The last job I had in the UK required TWO MONTHS of notice on either side! Since we're paid in arrears in both countries, the US system is fairer than monthly pay because you don't lose the potential interest you could earn from getting half of your salary paid two weeks earlier than you'd get it in the UK. Weekly paid people in the UK are also better off. What I really hate is that my mortgage payment comes due twice a month and I get paid every two weeks so there is this horrible arrhythmia where the random decisions of various Roman Emperors about the duration of each month does horrible things to my bank balance! SteveBaker (talk) 15:19, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Well, comparisons based on loss of potential interest work only if you assume you'd be paid the same amount per unit time otherwise. I doubt that's a valid assumption. After all, interest you get is interest your employer doesn't get, or vice versa. So I would expect employers who pay weekly, losing out on that interest, to pay slightly less. Overall it probably evens out, more or less, though certainly it might not even out exactly in a particular case. --Trovatore (talk) 09:32, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Here in Sweden, THREE months of notice is required on either side for most steady jobs, and my employer can't just sack me without a valid reason. Of course, the employer can always claim there is "not enough work" - but that means they cannot hire someone else to do my job instead. Lova Falk talk 16:31, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

On either side? You're saying that you're contractually bound to keep working even if you don't want to? What happens if you don't? Your employer sues you?

The two-weeks thing Steve talks about is also not really familiar to me. More typical in the software industry is that, when you are terminated (probably no matter whether it was your choice or the company's), you are immediately locked out of your computer account, and your keycard stops working. What they may very well do is pay you for two weeks or so, or longer in stable companies, assuming that the company fired you and it was not "for cause". It's called a severance package. Of course you're not likely to get one if you resign. But they're not going to ask you to keep working, or even permit you to, in most cases — there's too much mischief you could pull if you were so inclined. --Trovatore (talk) 02:50, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

If you can't get your employer to agree with letting you go earlier, it's a breach of contract if you don't show up, and yes, you could be sued even though I have never heard that it really happened. Lova Falk talk 07:41, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Wow. I think I like the at will system better, even though it's certainly less secure. --Trovatore (talk) 09:26, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

I really like the part that I cannot be sacked just because my employer doesn't like my face anymore. Three month's notice is not a problem in Sweden, because it is the same for most. So when looking for a new job, it is not a huge disadvantage. Lova Falk talk 10:21, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Weekly was the traditional way 'unskilled' work was paid in the UK, but there's been a move towards monthly payment by many employers. And towards direct payment into a bank account. When I was doing various temp jobs a couple of summers ago, this was a real worry for a lot of the permanent staff I met: they were being switched to monthly payment, and had spent decades budgeting with a weekly salary. Quite apart from a month != 4 weeks confusing things, weekly payment was a deeply ingrained thing for them. I offer this as anecdata. 212.183.140.17 (talk) 16:00, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm a salaried professional, and I get paid twice a month. Weekly paychecks were quite common when I was doing blue-collar work.

In 1949 I protested that my then weekly pay was to be paid monthly by cheque, objection over-ruled. All my employers since have paid monthly and a day or so early if pay-day fell on a bank holiday.--Artjo (talk) 16:24, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Just to toss in some anecdotal data from Canada: most of the jobs my wife and I have had over 30+ years either paid every 2 weeks or twice a month. Every 2 weeks is nice because the paychecks are equally spaced (except for holidays), but twice a month is nice because most bills you pay are on monthly cycles. I've had two jobs where I was paid monthly, but they really only count once because the same people were running both companies. I found this unusual and inconvenient. In my experience medium-to-large companies typically pay by direct deposit while small ones pay by check. All of these have been technical/professional jobs. --Anonymous, 20:55 UTC, May 26, 2010.

I'm not sure abotu your assumption. I'm in USA and I get paid twice monthly, not every two weeks. This is an important distinction that seems unimportant. (And I had the option of physical checks or direct deposit.) APL (talk) 22:27, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

• Sorry, what "assumption" are you "not sure about"? --Anon, 15:59 UTC, May 27, 2010.

Oh. Not yours, I was referring to the original question-asker. APL (talk) 22:38, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

As long as we're in anecdote mode, let me add mine -- as an example of how you don't want to be paid. This was a US company that no longer exists, and they paid monthly "on the first working day of the month". What this meant was that if the actual 1st of the month was on a weekend, you got paid after it. That was a serious bitch if you had automatic transfers coming out of your account in the first three days of the month, and worse if January 1st was on a Friday, in which case payday was the 4th!

DaHorsesMouth (talk) 22:48, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Some are given the choice, but unless they don't have a bank account, why would anyone US employee prefer to get an actual 'check'? Direct deposit (I think the same thing is called BACS in the UK) seems like such an obvious thing, but when my former (US based) employer was proposing to move all US employees to twice monthly (or maybe two weekly?) direct deposit, there was quite some opposition from my American colleagues. Astronaut (talk) 23:29, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Please don't put check in scare quotes. As to why someone would want to be paid by a physical check in hand, I can't think of any very good reasons, but you know, some people are traditionalists. Who knows; maybe they get a little dopamine rush from holding the check, and that's part of their reward for doing their job. Whatever floats your boat, as they say. --Trovatore (talk) 23:35, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

People are allowed to spell check with a "q" in it at Referense Desque if it seems more natural. Edison (talk) 02:43, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

I would not have objected to him using the cheque spelling. I objected to the scare quotes, which seemed to imply that the US spelling was somehow a mistake. --Trovatore (talk) 02:54, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I normally spell it with a "q", but I deliberately spelled it incorrectly because we are dealing with why things are the way they are in the US. Would using {{Sic}} have been a better way to indicate my own incorrect spelling? Astronaut (talk) 20:58, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

It is not an incorrect spelling. Please don't say or imply that it is. --Trovatore (talk) 22:09, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

I think every person is entitled to hold his or her own opinion as to whether a form of spelling is corret or not. Within their community (i.e. their half of the English world) the other spelling would be regarded as incorrect. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 06:41, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

It is not incorrect, period. It is perfectly fine American English. That is not a matter of opinion. Using the scare quotes is plain offensive. --Trovatore (talk) 07:45, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

I think the point is the OP wasn't speaking American English Nil Einne (talk) 13:17, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Then, as I say, he might easily just have said cheque, and that would have been fine. To write check but put it in scare quotes, that's offensive. --Trovatore (talk) 16:43, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

scare quote is a US neologism that does not exist in major British English dictionaries. This source[1] defines scare quote n. the use of quotation marks to indicate that it is not the authors[sic] preferred terminology. Methinks Trovatore complains too much. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 22:07, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

In addition, if he/she was talking in some variety of English where check was not an accepted spelling but wanted to use the American English term for whatever reason (which the poster is surely entilted to do, and in this case even gave what I would consider good reasons for it when queried), then using quotes to indicate this is surely not different from if I talk about "Hari Raya" or "pasar malam"; both of which may be considered an acceptable English term in Malaysian, Indonesian and Singaporean English but potentially not in most other varieties of English. It seems to me that Trovatore is implying people are forbidden from using foreign terms on the RD (at least if there is a non-foreign substite) and although I may be partially influenced by my background in Malaysia where Manglish is common, it doesn't seem like I'm the only one who doesn't agree with this view point. In other words there should be no requirement or expectation that I am somehow forbidden when making comments, from using terms that may be unusual or unaccepted in whather variety of English I'm choosing to speak, even if there are alternative English terms that arguably can substitute. Nor should there be anything wrong with me choosing to indicate via the use of quotes that the term could be considered foreign in the variety of English I'm talking. Nil Einne (talk) 07:21, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Another anecdote: I get paid twice a month for my regular salary. For my shift differential and overtime, the check comes every Friday. So, every Friday I get a little money but if a twice monthly check falls on a Friday, I get paid twice in the same day. And yes, it's direct deposit. From the other side of things, if you go into most any small town market or general store in the US on a Friday evening, you'll often see people having their paycheck cashed there. These are generally blue collar workers who live paycheck to paycheck and possibly don't have a bank account. Dismas|^(talk) 03:03, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Extermination

what's a LP and a RTU in extermination —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.99.58.5 (talk) 20:23, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

RTU = Ready to use

LP = Lawn and perimeter (?)

as far as I can see. The context where you found these might clarify matters. --Kateshortforbob _talk 20:48, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

...or Return to Unit in military parlance.--Artjo (talk) 05:43, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

OP should have specified who or what was being exterminated...--PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 06:42, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

May 27

Holy Land information

I have just launched a website on sacred sites in the Holy Land (Israel, Palestinian Territories, Jordan, Egypt). The URL is www.seetheholyland.net. Could this link please be passed on to editors working in this area, in case the content is of use? Thank you. Pat McCarthy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Seetheholyland (talk • contribs) 05:06, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

It is unlikely the site will be useful for Wikipedia's purposes. Per Wikipedia:External links, we generally only use external links to a) official websites of the subject of the article or b) As references to reliable sources which can be used to cite information contained in articles. --Jayron32 05:12, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Make and model of truck

Does anyone know the make and model of this truck? I'm trying to add a description to it. I think it's a Mack 'semi' or whatever Americans call it... Chevymontecarlo 05:25, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes, we call them semis and it's not a Mack, it's a Freightliner. Though you probably knew that last bit since it's used in the Freightliner article. Unless you thought "Mack" was a generic trademark, which it isn't. Dismas|^(talk) 05:29, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Well, the make is Freightliner, but the model is still unknown. Freightliner likely make many different Tractor units and Semi-trailers, and may even offer them in a mix-and-match capacity. The article doesn't contain any information on the specific model of either the tractor or the trailer. --Jayron32 05:51, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't know how you're going to tell the make of the trailer unless that red circle in the top corner is a company logo of the maker. It may not be a FL trailer. Dismas|^(talk) 11:55, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

The logo on the trailer could be that of Peterbilt. I know they make the truck parts, but I'm not sure if they make trailers. Anyway, here is a list of trailer manufacturers in the United States. I didn't go through it; maybe you could check them to see if anything is recognizable. — Michael J 13:26, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Excellent. Thanks guys. I'll add the description now. Chevymontecarlo 15:14, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

FYI, some very new OR here. Peterbilt does indeed make trailers. I was stuck behind one today creeping along for nearly 30 km! — Michael J 16:11, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

property

Were do i look for for when persons build on your owned property? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.91.97.131 (talk) 07:10, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Your question is a little unclear. In Florida your local government department that deals with planning and building should be able to help you. Indeed must help you because it is very likely that building on someone else's land is illegal. However Wikipedia rules do not permit us to give you legal advice on this matter. Caesar's Daddy (talk) 07:51, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

In the state of Washington I'd recommend contacting your county's Planning Department. They should be able to point you to various resources at least. Elsewhere in the country and world things may be different. Still, contacting one's local government for advice is probably a reasonable course of action. In Washington it is possible for a property owner to legally claim part of an adjoining property, via Adverse possession, if I have the term right. The process and hoops that must be jumped through are long and difficult though. Anyway, before contacting a lawyer I'd contact the local government--particularly agencies that focus on parcels and boundaries (planning dept, maybe surveying or GIS--the local county's GIS Department, where I worked for a while, was very good about directing public questions on matters like this to the appropriate place). Also, the legal boundaries do not always conform to natural features like fences, hedges, etc. Sometimes these disputes can only be settled by bringing in surveyors, and even that does not always settle the matter. Pfly (talk) 08:56, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

FYI, the IP's address resolves to somewhere in Colorado. Dismas|^(talk) 11:52, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

If the IP means what the text seems to indicate, I'd say trespass. Shadowjams (talk) 06:17, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Repatriation rules

Recently, on my holiday I visited two countries. I left my home country and reached country A first by flight and from there by another flight country B. I returned to my home country from B via A. I had multiple entry visa to enter A and B was offering visa on arrival. What if I did not have a multiple entry visa for A. Immigration at my home country would have permitted to leave ( as I had a visa and return ticket and where not seeing my tickets to B). Would the airline deny me boarding pass for my ( B to A) return journey? What would have happened in that case( that is if the airlines leave me at a third country)? If they had not noticed it, would I be permitted to land in A? Would I be detained there? I have seen that, in such situations, they will send the passenger to his/her home country at the cost of the airlines. (does that mean I need not have taken a multiple entry visa and even a return ticket). I am just interested in knowing the relevant legal provisions here. I am interested in the general rules and that’s why I am not naming the countries (If there are no general rules, A= Malaysia, B = Indonesia and I am from 203.200.35.32 (talk) ). I am in particular interested in the legal provisions applicable to the situation when a passenger lands in a foreign country without proper entry permit or is denied entry by the authorities. Whose liability is to take him / her back? What if he/she refuses to pay for the return ticket? What if he/she declares to the pilot that he will not obey his directions if he/she is taken against his/her will?--203.200.35.32 (talk) 08:54, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Arriving in any country without the proper documentation renders the person liable to be regarded and treated as an illegal immigrant - with all the subsequent consequences applicable to the country concerned. And rightly so! 92.30.45.217 (talk) 11:00, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Usually they don't return you to your home country, they return you to the country that you just left. If the airline let you on in B without a visa for A (which they would get in trouble for doing) then the authorities in A would return you to B. More likely, the airline wouldn't let you on in B and you would need to either find an alternative way home, get a visa for A or contact your consulate for assistance (one of the thing consulates do is get people home when they're stranded - they sometimes invoice you once you get home, though). --Tango (talk) 14:53, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Many countries that require visas for visitors to that country do not require visas for people who merely change planes in that country without leaving the airport. According to this document, whose reliability I can't assess, this is the case for Malaysia. So if you landed in, say, Kuala Lumpur on your way home from Indonesia and changed to a different plane for your flight home without leaving the international departure area of the airport, you would not need a visa to enter Malaysia. (If you had a few hours between flights, however, and wanted to leave the airport to look around the city, you would need a visa.) To be certain whether this rule applies in your case, you would need to contact your nearest Malaysia embassy or consulate. Marco polo (talk) 18:56, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

I had checked this. It is applicable to "Foreign Nationals on transit without leaving the airport precincts and who continue their journey to the next destination with the same flight does not require a transit visa. " I had contacted the consulate and they clearly stated that they wouldn't even issue a transit visa on arrival. 220.227.207.32 (talk) 03:18, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Tired so didn't read the whole discussion but I would note in many cases you may be preventing from boarding the plane in the first place if you lack a suitable visa. I believe agreements between airlines and governments means they do often check this and in fact I think airlines may sometimes be charged with sending you back if you lack a visa, so they have an incentive to ensure you actually have a suitable visa. Also I think it is unlikely you'd be sent back to a country which won't accept you. I believe one of the requirements for deportations is the receiving country needs to accept the person. However if flights are arranged the country may allow it to be used as a transit point. Nil Einne (talk) 13:15, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

St. Petersburg

I remember seeing a documentary a number of years ago concerning how St. Petersburg was build on swamp land and so was interested to day to read more about this and the processes involved, however the above mentioned article does not mention this at all, can some one please illuminate this for me, is it true, and what were the prosseses involved. Further to this, the article mentions that no bridges were allowed to be build over the river Neva until 1850, but does not mention why, please help with this. Finally, the article also mentions that there was a prohibition on the spacing of buildings, please can this too be expanded upon for me, I have never been to Russia (though I would sorely love to) but it would appear in pictures I have seen that the buildings are generally very well spaced and far from each other, is this the case in reality? What was this prohibition the article mentions, are how was it enforced, what were the regulation and when, why and was it stopped. Thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.172.58.82 (talk) 09:11, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

This question is being answered on the Humanities Desk. We ask that you not double-post. Marco polo (talk) 18:42, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Suicide rates at the Foxconn factory

There has been news recently about the fact that at the Foxconn factory in China, lots of people commit suicide. I have a question about this. The article says that so far this year, ten people have killed themselves, in a factory of 450,000. Assuming the rates of suicide doesn't change, that would mean that approximately 20 people will kill themselves this year (a little more, but I'm using round numbers). That works out to a suicide rate of about 4.4 people per 100,000 people per year. Right? But according to the article on suicide rates, in all of China, the suicide rate per 100,000 people per year is 13.9, which is three times higher. Is that right? Am I misusing statistics here? Someone check my math.

I'm absolutely not trying to downplay the horribleness of people killing themselves, it is absolutely tragic that people working in this factory are killing themselves. And I'm not trying to say that it's not a horrible place to work either, I'm sure it's an absolute nightmare. But the numbers seem fishy to me. 83.250.239.198 (talk) 10:00, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

What was pointed out in the news sources I read (Slashdot being one, I believe) was that the figure was for the number of people who have killed themselves while actually in the company's premises, ie. at the factory. It doesn't include employees of the company who have committed suicide at home or in other places, which would increase the suicide rate of company employees. Having said that, none of the sources I came across gave a figure for total suicides by Foxconn employees, so I don't know if it is above or below the national average. --Kateshortforbob _talk 13:08, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

The company-premises Vs. home distinction is blurred for Foxconn employees, as for many employees in China's manufacturing sector, because they live in dormitories owned by the company (ref). So incidents there would count as "company premises". A cynic might suggest that if Foxconn were to sell its dormitories to management company (while keeping the same conditions) then the "company premises" incident rate would go down, whereas the actual wellbeing of employees wasn't improved. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 15:22, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

[2] mentions this. However a key point is these are averages. I haven't yet come across anyone comparing Foxconn's statistics with other Chinese factories which would be a better comparison. Or even any real analysis of who's committing suicide. Our Suicide in the People's Republic of China mentions the unusual fact that suicides among Chinese women is higher then men, which is something no? other country has, many having a significantly lower rate for men. (Although the suicide rate for men is still higher then the Foxconn rate quoted above.) These articles from before the FoxConn controversy both discuss the fact many Chinese rural women commit suicide [3] [4]. This discusses [5] how many graduates commit suicide after failing to find a job (feeling they've failed their parents). This discusses students [6] for somewhat similar reasons. The earlier blog post suggested suicide rates for elderly people may be higher, which wouldn't (this was always what I intended to say but made a mistake correct now in an edit) surprise me, although as I believe Chinese population is currently still quite skewed to the young, it may not mean the youth suicide rate is that much lower. In addition some of the earlier links mentioned a rate which seemed to be higher then the WHO figure from our article, whether this is just an older figure or different parties with different figures I don't know. But all this does mean that while someone working at Foxconn is potentially less likely to commit suicide then someone who has no job, or a rural woman, or a student who feels they aren't living up to their parents expectations, (none of which are that surprising) whether someone working at FoxConn is less likely to commit suicide then someone working at another factory in China is unclear (but IMHO a more relevant comparison). Nil Einne (talk) 08:53, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

meaning

what is the meaning of toing in a undergarment advertisement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rakeshknit (talk • contribs) 10:15, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps cameltoe. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 11:50, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

I think it means that the undergarment is supposed to give the wearer a more flattering look by making flabby body parts appear less so. See the article on toning exercises for the meaning of "toning". --98.114.98.195 (talk) 12:06, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

If toning is what was meant in the undergarment ad, you might also look at shapewear, which I see redirects to the article on foundation garments. (As 98.114.98.195 said, the purpose of this clothing is to make you look as though your body is more fit (more toned) than it is. --- OtherDave (talk) 11:55, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Internal UK money transfers.

Hello there,

I need to send money to my landlady - we both live in the UK (in the same house!) but by extreme bad luck, my card got damaged earlier today. She needs this money now, but I have no internet banking facility and it will take weeks for a new card to arrive, and days for things like paypal transfer followed by a withdrawal. Do you have any advice on an alternative means to send her this money? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.36.198.62 (talk) 12:26, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

If you live in the same house, cash would seem to be the best option.--Artjo (talk) 12:53, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Failing that, why not go to the bank and transfer the money into her account? This usually takes three working days. You could just take the money out, though, and bring it to her. Even if your card is damaged and the machine won't take it you can still use it in the bank over the counter. In fact, I've taken money out over the counter even without a card. --KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 13:00, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Depending on which banks you use and the amount to pay, you could find that transfer is by Faster Payments Service. This is guaranteed to be within two hours (under normal circumstances), and often if virtually instant. I have transferred from Nationwide to Co-op, and checked the online balance 5 minutes later and it was there. Certainly check whether your bank and hers support this before paying a £25 chaps fee for instant transfer! -- Q Chris (talk) 14:54, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Or you can go to you bank and pay for an instant transfer, it will cost more but will be instantly in her acc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.172.58.82 (talk) 13:10, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Postal order? you can buy one straight away.hotclaws 20:43, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Dress shirt tabs

When I buy a new dress shirt they often have these little sewed in pockets on the ends of the collar and inside of them is a plastic tab about an inch long. I know these shirts come with all manner of things to keep the product in place while its displayed (and I'd like to go back in time to the first person who decided every shirt was going to get thirteen pins and slap them) but I was wondering regarding these tabs whether these are supposed to be left in while you wear the shirt to keep the collar stiff or something.--162.84.135.225 (talk) 13:02, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

See Collar stays. Yes, you're supposed to leave them in (although I usually lose mine when I forget to take them out before washing the shirts). Deor (talk) 13:11, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Oh my god, that was fast. Deor, that was amazing! Thanks.--162.84.135.225 (talk) 13:12, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

You can also buy replacement collar stays if the original, removable ones get damaged or lost. I've seen less expensive shirts with sewn-in stays. That's not always a good idea; if they get bent, you have a permanent kink in the collar. --- OtherDave (talk) 11:57, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Having more than one kink in a collar still sounds okay[7] (video). Cuddlyable3 (talk) 13:03, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Constellations

I appologise for wording one of the above questions badly, but I would like to know why it is said that with various conselations, it is hard to perceive the patterns that they are meant to make as I find this very easy. Thank you and sorry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.172.58.82 (talk) 13:09, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Simply put, because interpretation is subjective. What some find easy others find hard, and there is very little value in pursuing why that is the case. As for why it is said (is it said?) that it's hard to see constellations -- presumably because whoever made the statement found it to be generally true. Or because they had some hidden agenda. Or because the Illuminati secretly controls all printed word (fnord). Again, when it's this subjective and arbitrary, "why?" has little value. But if you can easily recognize the constellations, and gain value from recognizing and interpreting them, great! I hope you live where it's dark enough to see them regularly. — Lomn 13:37, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

While it's easy to recognise the outline of a man in Orion, who would believe that the asterism we know as the Plough or the Big Dipper is meant to represent the Great Bear (Ursa Major)? Or that a line of faint stars is really a Whale (Cetus)? And who on earth knows what a Centaur is these days (Sagittarius)? Or a sea-goat (Capricornus)? You need both a vivid imagination to see these things, and a knowledge of classical Greek mythology! Various attempts have been made over the centuries to introduce new constellations, with mixed results. I sometimes wonder what constellations would emerge today, were we to create them from fresh? The iPod, perhaps? Mobilis Telephonus? --TammyMoet (talk) 18:16, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

"See, that's the Apple. And that little line of dim stars beside it is Bill Gates, weeping in despair." — Lomn 19:17, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Bill's tears are Micrometeroids. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 12:48, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

If we started naming constellations today they'd all be trademarked characters, because those are the stories that our modern culture is made of.

Disney and Time Warner would own the sky.APL (talk) 14:35, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Actually, that's not a bad marketing stunt for a big media company; Publish a bunch of star charts with your own new constellations on them. Maybe some of them would stick. APL (talk) 14:37, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

I changed the title for clarity. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 12:50, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Are these private residences?

Are these private residences on this island at the extreme northwestern tip of the United States? http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Lake+Cushman,+WA&sll=46.596619,-123.684082&sspn=2.208033,4.235229&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Lake+Cushman&ll=48.39132,-124.735803&spn=0.002084,0.004136&t=h&z=18 Switch to satellite view if it's not already on that. And does that island have a name? Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 20.137.18.50 (talk) 14:08, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

That's Tatoosh Island and the buildings are probably associated with the lighthouse. Mikenorton (talk) 14:19, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Acme mapper shows a few graves in addition to the lighthouse. I'd guess they are Makah graves. The island is theirs in any case. Pfly (talk) 16:41, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

This is a nice photo of the island - perhaps it helps? SteveBaker (talk) 20:37, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

GOL football

What does GOL stand for in GOL Football ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.2.75.181 (talk) 14:21, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

It could be GOL TV or Gol Gohar F.C. or a welsh football charity [8] - what context? Mikenorton (talk) 14:27, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Or could it be Spanish for goal? (See "gol" in Spanish Wikipedia.) — Michael J 17:57, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Largest University Cafeteria

Who has the largest University Cafeteria in North America? Air Di (talk) 14:46, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Well, the size of a University's campus may have an effect on it's cafeteria size, so this may be of help. Apart from that I don't think there are any other categories or lists, at least on Wikipedia anyway. Chevymontecarlo 19:02, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Probably not. Larger universities could just have more cafeterias. I attended a medium-sized University in the mid-Atlantic U.S. region (15000 undergrads). We had 4 cafeterias and two food courts, and probably another half-dozen or so smaller food venues (sandwich shops, coffee shops). A larger school could have had 8-10 cafeterias rather than larger ones... --Jayron32 04:47, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

I know it's not North America, but for comparison, the UniMensa (central and largest cafeteria) of the University of Cologne, Germany, is a sizeable three-storey building with lots of separate areas for different kinds of food and is probably able to serve upwards of a thousand people at the same time. Can't find a good photograph, though. It's the central building under this link, right between the trees, the sports field, the parking lot and Zuelpicher Strasse. HTH. --Ouro (blah blah) 07:50, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

According to the Wikipedia Cafeteria article, Michigan State University's Brody Complex has the world's largest non-military cafeteria CosmicJake (talk) 17:48, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Driving simulator instead of breathalyzer

(1) Whereas police officers in many jurisdictions use breathalyzers to test drivers for evidence of driving under the influence of alcohol, and (2) whereas individual drivers differ in regard to how their driving is influenced by the consumption of alcohol, and (3) whereas other substances and factors besides alcohol can influence driving ability, and (4) whereas driving simulators can be used to test driving ability directly and in various dimensions (vision, hearing, judgement, and reflexes), is there a motor vehicle equipped with a driving simulator for testing driving ability (either at random moments, or after a specified interval of driving time, or at the discretion of a police officer), and which responds to a failed test by automatically disabling the motor for a specified period of time? -- Wavelength (talk) 17:21, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

I doubt it. That kind of test would take quite a while. A breathalyser test can be done in a minute. I don't think anyone would like to replace a one minute test with a 30 minute one. --Tango (talk) 17:34, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

No. If you think there should be one, who would be responsible for the inevitable false positives and false negatives? The legal standard is the driver's alcohol:blood ratio. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 17:43, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Breathalyzers can give false readings. See Breathalyzer#Common sources of error. -- Wavelength (talk) 18:10, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

I am continuing to search for an online driving simulator test, but, meanwhile, I found Globe Drive writer fails driving test - The Globe and Mail. -- Wavelength (talk) 19:11, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Every conceivable form of testing has room for error in it. The question is which is most reliable, and whether you combine multiple forms of testing at once (i.e., in the US a Field Sobriety Test is quite common before the breathalyzer—you'd need two false positives then to be in legal trouble. There's always a possibility of error, but that's because there is no perfect way to do it, and the goal is to balance out fairness with feasibility. Your proposed plan is not a good balance for all of the many reasons described below—the false positive and negative rates would be so high as to probably overwhelm any useful "signal", and the cost in terms of time and implementation are off the scale when compared to existing methods. --Mr.98 (talk) 15:13, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

The page Virtual Driving Simulator | Online Driving Simulator has a link to Amazon.com: Use of a virtual reality driving simulator as an alcohol abuse prevention approach… ($9.95), indicating that someone else has had similar thoughts. -- Wavelength (talk) 20:02, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Incidentally in many jurisdictions the crime is driving with a particular blood alcohol concentration so the ability to actually drive a car may be of little interest to the policeJabberwalkee (talk) 20:32, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

I think the problem here is that as people become mildly intoxicated, their rate of making poor decisions gets only gradually worse. While a totally, crazily drunk individual might show serious impairment within just a few minutes of driving, it might be that a sober person could drive for (let's say) an average of 200,000 miles without causing an accident. But let us suppose that someone who is just over the legal limit might cause an accident (say) every 2,000 miles. That's 100 times more dangerous than a sober person - which would be ample reason for the law to require people not to drive with that amount of alcohol in their systems. However, you might have to sit such a person in a realistic car simulator, keeping them at that level of intoxication for DAYS as you watch them drive for 2,000 miles before they'd make such an error! Even then, one error isn't statistically significant. You'd probably have to have them drive maybe 20,000 miles at that same level of intoxication(!) before you'd have enough statistical evidence to say that they were significantly impaired. You could (and people have) use simulators to experimentally estimate the level of blood-alcohol at which the accident rate becomes unacceptable - but to use it to test every single person who is accused of drunk driving is utterly impossible. I used to know a guy who worked for the University of Minnesota's car simulator group - and I know they did all kinds of testing for those kinds of thing (also cellphone distraction, radio show distraction, talking passenger distraction, etc). A car simulator with enough fidelity to do that is an expensive toy - we're talking millions of dollars. You can't afford to use such machines for routine testing - but only for establishing a statistical basis for cheaper tests such as the breath-analyser and blood analysers. SteveBaker (talk) 20:33, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Would it be too expensive for workers and/or robots at a motor vehicle assembly line to equip each motor vehicle with such a driving simulator? -- Wavelength (talk) 21:53, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Steve just said they would cost millions of dollars each (and he has a lot of experience with such simulators, so I'm inclined to trust his estimate). I don't know about you, but I wouldn't be happy paying millions of dollars for my car just so it can include a impairment test! (Yes, economies of scale would reduce the cost a bit from Steve's estimate, but they would still cost thousands of dollars, I'd guess.) You also haven't addressed the issue of the tests taking far too long. --Tango (talk) 22:48, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

I visualize a driver parking the vehicle and then lowering the driving simulator from its place of attachment under the roof above the driver's seat. -- Wavelength (talk) 22:40, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

This would mean that every single new vehicle would not only, as discussed above, cost substantially more by virtue of including this quite elaborate equipment (as well as by virtue of having to amortise the costs of substantially redesigning every model of vehicle currently on the market), but would also consume additional fuel by having to carry its weight: it would probably be next to impossible to retrofit such equipment to existing vehicles. Presumably, too, the simulator would have to be regularly tested at the vehicle owner's expense. Since it would have to interact intimately with the car's real-life controls, who is going to take responsibility when the inevitable sortware glitches cause real-life crashes?

A slightly more realistic scenario would be to have one such simulator at every police station. Though other jurisdictions may differ, in the UK one is not charged on the evidence of a roadside breathaliser test - which is only used as grounds for arrest on suspicion of the offence - but on the evidence of a second test performed post-arrest at a police station, which may involve either giving a blood sample for later analysis, or taking another breath test using a much larger (around 4 cubic meter) and more accurate machine. The simulator could be substituted for these, but suffers from requiring a much more elaborate and time-consuming procedure, and from not giving an obviously clear-cut numerical answer as to whether the suspect has actually broken the law. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 23:32, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

I visualize a device resembling a laptop computer with a program, and being no more elaborate, weighty, glitch-prone, or expensive. -- Wavelength (talk) 00:42, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

In drunk driving offences, people are not prosecuted for their inability to drive, but for their blood-alcohol level (or breath alcohol level) breaching a set, legal limit. Thus, a simulator result is irrelevant (especially an imaginary not-yet-invented laptop-sized one). Inaccuracies in breathalysers are recognised, hence the tolerances given in most jurisdictions. In addition, most jurisdictions allow a driver to request a blood test instead (or require one for evidence), which are much more accurate (and more likely to convict you, since the accepted tolerances are lower.) Gwinva (talk) 04:03, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

When I asked, at the beginning of this discussion, whether there was a motor vehicle equipped with such a device, I had in mind that it might be used instead of a breathalyzer, and that, in some jurisdictions, the cumulative result of a driving simulator test instead of the result of a breathalyzer test might be a criterion for deciding the legality or illegality of driving by the driver being tested. -- Wavelength (talk) 05:19, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

That would be a computer game, not a driving simulator. --Tango (talk) 16:39, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

@OP you have not answered my question and continue to visualize a cheap laptop-size mass produced in-car driving simulator that objectively and comprehensively quantifies a wide range of human abilities AND can interfere with a driver's control of their vehicle by disabling it AND somehow interprets and condenses all the data it collects into a single legally mandated number that can substitute for a blood test. I believe you knew that no such device exists before you posted your question. Wikipedia is not for things made up one day. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 12:43, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Whereas a driving test in real road traffic involves the circumstances available at that particular time, a driving simulator test can be designed with all of the essential challenges (except maybe road rage) condensed into a minimal amount of time, possibly five minutes, which might be equivalent to the time spent for a typical visit to a gasoline station.

Cuddlyable3, you asked "who would be responsible for the inevitable false positives and false negatives?" I do not know who would be responsible for false results, but it might be equivalent to the same people who are responsible for false results from breathalyzers. I do not visualize "a single legally mandated number", unless you consider a positive or negative result as a number, in the way that computers use zeroes and ones. I do not know with certainty that such a device exists or does not exist, and therefore I asked whether it does. I believe that my question qualifies as much as the question posed in the heading of the next section. -- Wavelength (talk) 14:46, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

If you condense it all into five minutes, even someone blind drunk could pass. It isn't hard to notice the hazards when you know they'll be coming up every 10 seconds. --Tango (talk) 16:39, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Yeah - there is a VAST difference between a "driving game" and a "driving simulator" (trust me - I've worked on both!). If you are merely suggesting that there might be some kind of interactive test of how drunk someone is - then it probably shouldn't be anything like a car driving game - it would be more likely to be something much more predicable and evidence-based. Imagine maybe a row of colored lights flashing on and off at random - when exactly three green lights light up (not two, not four, not red, not blue) you have to push a button as quickly as possible - the elapsed time says whether you're allowed to drive or not. That might work as a 'reaction test' - but the problem with drunk drivers isn't just reaction time - it's impaired judgement ("Sure I can make it through this amber light before it turns red!"..."I can't see past that truck but it's going really slowly so I'll overtake it anyway"). You can't test for that in a game because the player doesn't have enough feeling of "being there" to invest the care they need to complete a realistic task. Everyone drives without a care in the world for "dying" when they play computer games.

A car simulator that would be realistic enough to catch problems on a full driving experience would have to have ALL of the controls working, a working radio, rear and door mirrors - a way to see out to the sides - a way for you to feel bumps and g-forces in turns - realistic engine sounds that respond to road conditions, steering with proper force-feedback for "road feel". That means taking a real car, modifying the heck out of it, mounting it on a gigantic hydraulic motion-platform, enclosing it in some kind of a dome and projecting high-resolution graphics with sufficient brightness to be convincing. That, right there, is a ten million dollar machine! Anything less than a full-up realistic simulation is no better guarantee than a row of lights and a button for reaction time testing...and if you're going with that kind of approach then you might as well stick with breath and blood analysis to get a direct blood-alcohol reading.

But even if what you're imagining that a computer game could somehow work - you didn't address the serious concern from my previous post that you might have to have the person being tested drive for hundreds or thousands of simulated miles before they'd make that serious mistake that would label them as unfit to drive. If a typical driver goes for 200,000 miles without causing a serious accident - and a drunk driver is 100 times worse than a sober driver - then unless you're prepared to test them for 2,000 miles of simulated driving - you won't know whether they might make a serious mistake. That, right there, is the last nail in the coffin for this concept. If you're merely hoping to detect whether the person weaves slightly as they drive - or maybe fails a "kid jumps out into the road" emergency stop - then you aren't directly testing all aspects of driving ability and you might as well test blood-alcohol instead...it's every bit as arbitary.

Worse still, you'd have to take this test every single time you sat in the car - even if you are a teetotaler. Having to pass a 10 minute driving test every time I need to drop my kid off to school - AND every time I stop for gas or get out of the car for any other reason - would be an unbelievable pain in the ass!

SteveBaker (talk) 19:45, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

There is actually an even deeper legal problem. You can tell someone that they must not drink more than two units of alcohol before driving. That's a rule that everyone can obey if they choose to do so. People who drink more than that and then drive KNOW that they are breaking the law. With a performance-based test, everyone can kid themselves that they are a good enough driver when slightly tipsy to chance that extra drink...and they might be right...but the trouble is that we know that people who drink and drive don't believe they'll cause an accident - if they did, they wouldn't do it. So you know for 100% certain that all drunk drivers would continue to believe they can drive safely after what they drank...so this test would be ineffective at preventing people from driving drunk. Worse still, it risks having honest, law-abiding citizens who wouldn't consider having that third drink think that they can. Most likely then, this idea would actually INCREASE the amount of drunk driving...not decrease it. SteveBaker (talk) 19:52, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

SteveBaker, I do not have responses ready for all of your points, but I do have a few things to say. The device would not measure drunkenness; it would test driving ability. Also, I did not say that the driver would have to take the test each time he or she sat down into the motor vehicle; I mentioned in my opening post three different ways in which the tests might be "scheduled".

-- Wavelength (talk) 21:08, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

In my searches on the World Wide Web, I found the following documents about sleep-deprived driving.

• Low Levels of Alcohol Impair Driving Simulator Performance and Reduce Perception of Crash Risk in Partially Sleep Deprived Subjects
• Low levels of alcohol impair driving simulator performance and reduce perception of crash risk in partially sleep deprived subjects.

They seem to be discussing the same study, but I am providing both links anyway. -- Wavelength (talk) 21:36, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

The references are to the same study. It describes a test where a 'computer game-like' simulator (p.1067) was used that displays a speedometer in the top left corner of the computer screen (p.1064).

It is disingenuous of the OP suppose that responsibility for the visualised device automatically disabling wrongly a vehicle is analagous to a faulty breathalyzer because breathalyzers merely provide evidence to a human policeman given authority with responsibility for any further action. A vehicle cannot be half imobilised therefore that action must be a binary i.e. one or zero, and that interference in a person's freedom can happen legally only if there is a legislated threshold. To continue to insist that their fantasy device that cannot be found in any road safety legislation anywhere "might exist" is the obduracy of an OP refusing to understand the unanimously negative answers given here. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 16:45, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Cuddlyable3, I have never supposed the analogy which you describe, and I never wished or anticipated that anyone would infer that from my plain expressions. Also, when I responded to comments and questions about the practicality of such a device, I did not wish or anticipate that anyone would infer an insistence on its possible existence. Still, I concede that it is easier to prove that something exists than that it does not exist. (I am just defending my comments as politely as I can; I do not want to argue.) -- Wavelength (talk) 20:34, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

If the OP's statement "I do not know who would be responsible for false results, but it might be equivalent to the same people who are responsible for false results from breathalyzers" is not drawing an analogy between faults in the OP's fantasy device and faults in breathalyzers then what does it mean? If their statement "I do not know with certainty that such a device exists or does not exist" is not an insistence on its possible existence then why say that?

The OP's idea is unfortunately a regression to the past before breathalysing followed by blood tests for alcohol were legislated. A traffic policeman would then typically estimate a driver's motor coordination by asking the driver to walk a straight line, or to say the Tongue-twister The Leith police dismisseth us. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 21:40, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

The first statement (without mention of the disabling feature) does make an analogy. My reason for making the second statement was to correct your contrary statement. -- Wavelength (talk) 22:26, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

The other problem our OP has is the misunderstanding of the statistical nature of accidents. It is perfectly possible for someone to drive for years while over the legal blood-alcohol limit and never have an accident. However, in general - statistically - people who are over the limit are many, many times more likely to cause an accident than sober people...and that's enough to justify preventing them from driving. You can't measure the reduction in driving ability directly because despite their vastly higher risk - it's still highly improbable that the person will cause a simulated accident while in the simulator for just a few minutes. If a sober person causes a serious accident just once in their lives - a few hundred thousand miles (a pretty fair average, I'd say) - then even if the intoxicated person is thousands of times more dangerous, the probability of an accident happening while driving just a few miles in the simulator is near zero. Hence we need a standard for intoxication that is based on what they drank rather than how they perform after drinking because that's a measurable (if imperfect) thing...and that's what the blood-alcohol limits used in most countries are doing. Sure, it's not a great way to do it - but at least it produces test results that correlate well with statistical danger. SteveBaker (talk) 18:54, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Right, but Steve, your remarks here and above also indicate why hazard ratio is not a very good statistic for informing policy decisions, like who should be allowed to drive and when. If someone completely sober caused an accident once every quadrillion miles, and someone with BAC of 0.001% caused one every trillion miles, that would be a hazard ratio of 1000, but I hardly think it would be justification to ban driving at 0.001% !

There is no question that driving while impaired by alcohol or other substances is an ongoing problem that causes great harm. But I think that there is a risk of going too far, and imposing harsh consequences on drivers relatively at random for relatively harmless behavior. I can live with the current 0.08% standard, but I would resist attempts to push it further. Already at the current standard, I think you're talking about levels of elevated risk comparable to driving while tired or emotionally upset. --Trovatore (talk) 19:36, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

---

I am editing the archived discussion to add two points.

• At 16:39, 28 May 2010 (UTC), Tango said "It isn't hard to notice the hazards when you know they'll be coming up every 10 seconds." A computer program can randomize the combination and permutation of challenges selected from a previously determined set. By means of combinatorics, the number of possible sequences can make predicting a particular randomly generated sequence very difficult.
• An ignition interlock device interprets breathalyzer readings and can prevent the engine of a motor vehicle from starting.

(I am adding this archive page to my watchlist.)
—Wavelength (talk) 03:14, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Are there autonomous/"self-charging" (small, unmanned) submarines?

I imagine you could anchor to the bottom of a strong stream and get the water power, or maybe something else? --194.197.235.240 (talk) 19:00, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

It's not exactly that - but this autonomous underwater 'glider' can travel 30,000 miles on the energy equivalent of 1 gallon of gasoline! It uses small bouyancy changes to allow it to 'glide' through the water for long distances. If you imagine an airplane gliding down from a great height - then you can imagine a heavier-than-water submarine with "wings" doing the same thing, gliding through water from the surface to some great depth. Conversely, a lighter-than-water sub could "glide upwards" from deep water to the surface. By pumping water into and out of ballast tanks, this little submarine can alternate between being lighter and heavier than water - and thereby glide over immense distances with teeny-tiny amounts of energy. SteveBaker (talk) 20:17, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Could one be made large enough to carry a standard cargo container, do you suppose? Is there any money in shipping things extremely slowly around the world at almost no cost? 213.122.35.20 (talk) 00:40, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

If Popular Science is to be trusted, Work is actually underway[9] to make "self-charging" unmanned submarines for deep ocean dives. They may soon increase the endurance of the kind of bots Steve just linked into a the years without a recharge range.

The theory is to exploit the temperature difference between different layers of the ocean to generate the tiny amount of energy required to blow the ballast tanks. APL (talk) 21:11, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

These low-thrust drones could not maneuver at the bottom of a strong stream. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 23:04, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

If it does not have to be a sub, why couldn't you just have a robotic sailing vessel, or a solar powered ship? They might not be super fast and there could be some days where they do not move because it is cloudy or there is no wind, but the principal would be similar. Googlemeister (talk) 13:58, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Well, wind-powered ships are not exactly new! Having one be robotically controlled is also not unreasonable - but the problem for cargo shipment is that time is money and being becalmed for days or weeks is not likely to be acceptable. Also, the capital cost of the ship is not small - and tying up such a valuable resource when it's becalmed or if it has to sail at slow speed - or perhaps sail around storm systems instead of piling right through them is problematic. Also, when you have a ship that's worth tens of millions with cargo worth about the same...the cost of having a handful of humans on board to resolve problems is not such a big deal and having a robotic system pilot the ship has few attractions. The nice thing about being underwater is that there is little or no weather problems down there - so a submarine trip could have a more predictable ride. SteveBaker (talk) 19:17, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. That was all new and interesting to me. --194.197.235.240 (talk) 19:00, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Wave power is also practical - all you need is a suitable weight connected to the piston of a hydraulic or pneumatic pump - and every time the vessel bobs up and down, you get one cycle of the pump and a little more energy for propulsion. If the craft is small and you can be patient, you can have a ship with a virtually limitless range. SteveBaker (talk) 19:20, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Children as sole survivors

Looking at the list of sole survivors of airline incidents, I, along with many others, notice a bias towards children; it is certainly well above what you'd expect. Have there been any theories as to why this is the case? I imagine physical size may play a part, but on the other hand, they'd faint more easily from pain, blood loss and smoke inhalation. - Jarry1250 ^{[Humorous? Discuss.]} 21:05, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

I'd want to be sure it was true before trying to explain it - a sole surviving child is likely to get more publicity than a sole surviving adult. If it is true, then I'd guess it is either their smaller size or them being protected by the adults (using their bodies to shield the children, for example). They might be able to survive great injuries too - children have a reputation for healing quickly, but I don't know if that is true or not. --Tango (talk) 21:30, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Where is this list to be seen? Cuddlyable3 (talk) 22:49, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

List of sole survivors of airline accidents or incidents. As for the question, I would think that parents and/or guardians of the children would do their best to protect the child, putting their kids above themselves. How much and what kind of extra protection would be available, I don't know. The Reader who Writes (talk) 23:11, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

The BBC have also noticed this trend - a moderately interesting article in which they speak to various experts but conclude very little. Warofdreams talk 23:23, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

The List of sole survivors of airline accidents or incidents shows 11 children under age 18 who survived crashes that had 788 fatalities. That's 72 adults killed for every child saved. Bias? Cuddlyable3 (talk) 23:29, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

It's only 72 adults if all the 788 fatalities were adults, which is unlikely. These numbers could have some meaning if data were easily available stating how many of the dead were children vs. adults. Comet Tuttle (talk) 00:15, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

The "trend" and "bias" claims are really weird because the sample size is small — we should be looking at "airline crashes with 2 survivors" and "airline crashes with 3 survivors", etc., if we want to draw any conclusions. Comet Tuttle (talk) 00:36, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

I'd imagine it's a combination of size and immaturity. First, kids being smaller means that the square-cube law works in their favor: their muscles, bones, and other tissues are stronger in proportion to their mass (and inertia) than for adults, so it takes a more forceful impact to cause damage. Second, since kids are still growing, their skeleton has a higher proportion of cartilege to bone, which tends to bend rather than break. --Carnildo (talk) 00:42, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

The sample isn't large enough to really note trends, and experts all have differing opinions. See this newspaper article on the Libyan crash:

William Voss, president of the Alexandria, Va.-based Flight Safety Foundation said sometimes children survive because of their small size. "As far as children are concerned, the only thing we can reasonably say is that some children survive because of their size, because it's easier for them to be protected during impact," he said. However, John Nance, an aviation safety expert and retired airline pilot, said that because commercial jet crashes are infrequent and each is different, there's not enough evidence to say children have an advantage. Although children weigh less and are more flexible, many infants and children die in crashes because they aren't properly restrained, he said.

Of the nine "sole survivors" listed at the conclusion of the article, 5 are children. Gwinva (talk) 03:51, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

I can appreciate the relevant undermining of such an observation (better reporting, etc.) but most sources say, with a small sample size, half were children. That's at least twice what you'd expect. Are there any more definite reults for perhaps all crashes, or all deadly crashes, out there? Indeed, can we find the percentage of people on flights who are children? - Jarry1250 ^{[Humorous? Discuss.]} 12:24, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

May 28

Puducherry

Sir, Is Pondicherry (Puducherry) is a Municipal Corporation? How many Municipal Corporations in India? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.177.173.209 (talk) 02:38, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Our article Puducherry (city) notes that it is a municipality ([[Nagar palika). Our municipality article notes that in "in India, a municipality is often referred to as a town. It is neither a village nor a big city.Usually,a municipality would have 20000 or more people, but if it exceeds 500000 it becomes a municipal corporation". See also Municipal_corporation#India and it's (supposedly) main article Nagar nigam. Gwinva (talk) 03:39, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Modified duration

Hi, what is the standard or benchmark modified duration (of an investment portfolio) for a company? Where may I find this stats? Thank you, 131.170.90.4 (talk) 04:16, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

satisfaction??

how do we raise the level of satisfaction from the end users for a customer satisfaction (in a travel process)survey sent.are there any robust procedures in place we can implement after having tried everything to attain to no avail.how do we list the the priorities in 1,2,3 in this endeavour??anyone —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.95.140.188 (talk) 12:48, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Have you actually asked your "end users" (horrible phrase - use "customers" instead!) what would improve their levels of satisfaction? Have you asked them to list their suggestions in order of priority? Finally, have you implemented these changes? --TammyMoet (talk) 15:11, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Traveling abroad - alone

I have a lot of time now and I want to travel out of my country. The cons are: I don't have a lot of money and I am a female and I will be traveling alone. Where do I begin? fyi - there are no travel angencies near where I live. Also, I don't want to necessarily "backpack" it or hitchhike where ever I go. But I can't travel luxuriously. What countries are not so expensive to visit? Where would it be fairly safe enough for a lone female American to travel? Would you suggest that I locate a waitressing position if I happen to like a country and stay a bit longer? Reticuli88 (talk) 15:23, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

It is common, and relatively inexpensive, for people to travel around Europe with an InterRail pass, and to stay in hostels. Frequently one meets like minds in such places, which may make this mode of travel less lonely (for the lone traveller) than more luxurious accommodation. Lonely Planet and Rough Guides cater to this budget-conscious market segment. I can recommend Barcelona (and a specific hostel, if you want). -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 15:35, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Also, a lot of countries will not like you taking a job without the correct permit or visa, so you may not be able to work while abroad. Googlemeister (talk) 15:36, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Places like India and Nepal are cheap, but not the sort of places you want to be a woman travelling alone. Travel itself is expensive, so consider what there is to explore within, say, 1000 miles of home. If you are worried about travelling alone, there are lots of sites like www.TravBuddy.com that can fix you up with someone who wants to do the same as you, and who may have more knowledge and experience.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 16:54, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Look up the rules for a "working visa" for the countries you want to visit. Most rich countries have a scheme where foreign students/young people can come over and work for a season to pay for travel, as a means of cultural exchange. I know the UK and Australia have lots of exchange students (in both directions), and surely Americans can join in too. Cod Lover Oil (talk) 18:18, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

If you want to get a feeling of foreignness without too much expensive travel, I recommend Montreal. Lots of interesting things to see there, and it's certainly no more dangerous or expensive than a U.S. city. Budget accommodations are available. Deor (talk) 18:27, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Working holiday visa appears to be the article for what Cod Lover Oil is describing. Comet Tuttle (talk) 18:27, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

The United States does not participate in the working holiday visa program. Consequently, few if any such programs are open to US citizens because of a lack of reciprocity. That said, you can sometimes land "under the table" work, which is technically illegal, particularly in countries with a large unofficial sector, such as Italy (not that we would ever advise doing anything illegal). Also, the Interrail pass is available only to people who have been legally resident in a participating European country for at least 6 months. Once again, this is not an option for most US citizens. US citizens can buy Eurail passes, but they are not so cheap. If you are a US citizen looking to travel inexpensively, I don't think Europe is the best destination. It is not inexpensive, in general. Eastern Europe, including Russia, may be an exception. As a male, I can't really assess how safe travel would be in those countries for a single woman. What I might recommend instead would be India. India has a wealth of cultural attractions that rivals the entire subcontinent of Europe. English is widely spoken. The flight to and from India is relatively expensive, though only maybe 50% more than a round-trip flight to Europe. Once you get to India, costs are shockingly low. For example, you can have a room with a private bath for around $12 a night in many places. You'd pay twice that for a bunk in a crowded youth-hostel dormitory in Europe. If you are willing to share a bathroom, you can sleep for less than $10. There may be hostels in India that are even cheaper. A nice dinner at a restaurant in India can cost $1. Rail fares for 100-mile intercity journeys cost little more than a subway (metro) ticket in London or Paris. My sense is that India is fairly safe for a woman traveling alone, provided that you dress modestly (loose pants or long dresses, no tight-fitting tops, a head scarf is even better) and travel by daylight. However, I would recommend going to a large bookstore, finding their travel section, and discretely browsing a few travel guides for key information before making a decision. Marco polo (talk) 18:51, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

From the working holiday visa page above, have you looked at a BUNAC internship in the UK? Cod Lover Oil (talk) 19:27, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

I know less about Southeast Asia, but I think that there are parts of Southeast Asia that have attractions similar to India. Specifically, I am thinking of Vietnam and Indonesia. Both have a number of interesting attractions, though neither has India's cultural richness. On the other hand, I suspect that you could probably work your way in those countries as an English teacher, whereas I suspect that that would be difficult in India since so many Indians speak English well enough to attract students. Waitressing in these Asian countries might be possible, but your earnings would put you at the level of low-income locals, who tend to live hard lives (think ramshackle housing without running water in a shanty town). Marco polo (talk) 19:04, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

You might also try WikiTravel - it's not a Wikimedia Foundation project - but is run on those lines, so it's pretty good. It has specific itineraries that you can follow (and you can of course chat with people who tried them) - tons of general advice about how to travel cheaply and safely - lots and lots of ideas for places to go that nobody here would have thought of! SteveBaker (talk) 19:08, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Also - this might sound crazy, but it is true - Italy grants citizenship automatically based on that of your ancestors, with no restriction if it's through the male line. Through the female line there is a cutoff point but it might still be possible. If any of your grandfathers, great-grandfathers, etc, were Italian, and you can prove it, you are already an Italian dual citizen. That means you can live and work anywhere in the European Union, with no restrictions. Just call the consulate and book an appointment to have your documents checked. More info here [10] Cod Lover Oil (talk) 20:21, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

I'd recommend Youth Hostels Association (England & Wales). You do not have to backpack anymore. Nor is it just for youth only, I've been surprised to see several people who look in their sixties or seventies. On the other hand, I do not think an American would be able to get a job in the UK or anywhere in the EU, unless you have special skills or are on some youth exchange scheme. You could buy a tourist rail ticket that allows unlimited travel - I think they are cheaper to buy in the US than in the UK. If you just want to stay in London, then all (I think) the publically owned museums and art galleries have free entrance. The Holland Park YHA is said to be particularly good. 92.15.30.36 (talk) 21:04, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

May I suggest volunteering? In the UK we have Voluntary Service Overseas , but I'm sure you will be able to find similar organisations where you live. A google on "volunteering abroad" brought up other organisations which recruit in the UK. --TammyMoet (talk) 10:30, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

What about Australia? According to Working Holidays in Australia US citizens between 18 and 30 are eligible for the VISA if they are "of good character and of good health". Since language isn't an issue, it may be easier to actually land jobs as well. decltype (talk) 00:25, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

There was a recent topic about travelling by cargo ship, not sure how it would work out as a cheap way of getting around. In the UK at least its often possible to get very cheap air tickets to places, although as I've never used any I'm wondering if the catch is an expensive return ticket. Perhaps the OP could get a job of some kind on a ship, cargo or liner. 92.15.12.12 (talk) 14:00, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

As TammyMoet says, volunteering holidays are something that might suit your ideas. There are projects in Central and South America, Africa and South Asia that might suit you. Some of them are construction work and skilled labour, but others are community work like immunisations and basic health care, development projects, training, literacy, etc. Most agencies that do the work have internet sites and online applications. If you have a university degree, countries like China, Korea and Japan employ native speakers as teachers and teaching assistants for Primary and High School (but be careful of scam companies offering these). In terms of safety, a culturally aware lone woman can travel in most places. For example, knowing that in a Muslim country it is appropriate to dress modestly (i.e. long sleeves and long trousers or skirt), no matter what religion you are, will keep you safer. Some single lone female travellers wear a fake wedding ring to deter unwanted suitors and to give an impression of the possible arrival of her hulking, jealous husband. Steewi (talk) 04:43, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Applying to Cambridge University

Cambridge University (UK) asks to see the module marks for every AS level taken. There's been a lot of mixed messages about what module marks the university would like, which has left me rather confused. Is there some mark you have to obtain on every module you sat for at AS? Many people seem to believe that this is 90%. In that case, is it necessary to get more than 90% on every module for EVERY AS level you have taken? Or is it enough to get over 90% ONLY in all the modules of AS subjects RELEVANT to the subject you are applying for? So for example: If you take Maths, Further Maths, Physics, Chemistry and Greek at AS, but would like to apply for Natural Sciences at the University, could you still have a realistic chance of getting into Cambridge, if on Greek you have one module whose mark is below 90% (but is still a high 80% mark so good enough for an A), but for every module in every other exam you have sat, you had over 90%? Would be so grateful if someone could sort out this conundrum for me! Luthinya (talk) 17:51, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

It's definitely worth applying. You may want to get some advice (from your school tutor, maybe) on what college to apply to - they all have different criteria. Some are really keen on excellent exam results (which yours definitely count as, one module being merely very good isn't going to be a problem), some prefer to see lots of good extra curricula activities, some like specialists, others prefer students with broader interests, etc.. --Tango (talk) 18:03, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

It's also worth noting that in many UK universities, it's possible to enroll onto one degree program - and then almost immediately switch to something else after being accepted. Thus, you might try to get into a program based on whichever subjects you have the most confidence that you could pass - with the plan to switch over to something else once you're enrolled. I went to the University of Kent and there, it doesn't matter what degree you enrolled for because during the first year, all science subject students do the exact same courses and at the end of that year, they get to re-select the exact degree program that they actually want to do. That may not be true everywhere - but I bet it's pretty common. It's amazing how many people switch after just a few weeks of discovering what exactly the subject they've chosen is all about! SteveBaker (talk) 19:00, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

That would never work at Oxford or Cambridge. People kill to get in there, they're not going to co-operate with students gaming the system. ╟─TreasuryTag►Counsellor of State─╢ 19:02, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Oxford Chemistry student here: at Cambridge, Natural Sciences is effectively the same course for everyone in the first year, but you can specialise heavily as time goes on. Cambridge seemed (according to my friends) to be more rigorous in their admissions process (read: less dependent on interview) than Oxford but with your grades it's definitely worth applying. My tutors have said that, when swamped with brilliant students with identikit sparkling personal statements, they'll often go for someone who makes a good impression on them. I really wouldn't fret about your Greek grades since you also happen to be an ideal Natsci candidate. Best wishes and good luck, Brammers (talk/c) 22:37, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Just to echo Tango, it's well worth applying. Obviously, have a back-up university, but go for it. They say one of the big factors reducing diversity at the big two universities is that students assume they'll never get in and don't apply. 212.183.140.55 (talk) 19:52, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Cambridge final year natural scientist here - I would consider it extremely unlikely that the slightly lower (but still very good) Greek mark would be taken into consideration at all, if anything doing five AS levels and getting an A in all of them will be taken as a sign that you have good time management and a solid work ethic (which they look for as much as academic ability - which given your marks you have plenty of as well). No one is going to impose a hard cut-off of 90%, they would lose some of their best students on the basis of random chance if they did. Also, I was told repeatedly when applying that the college considers the application as a whole - interview, marks, personal statement, reference, any admission tests - and that a less than perfect performance on one or two of them will never "doom" an application. It's definitely worth applying, it's a great course - good luck! 131.111.185.68 (talk) 15:45, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Hitching on a plane

I've found the Airhitch site, that sells cheap standby tickets across the Atlantic for studenty types, but was wondering if it's possible to actually hitchike on a plane as opposed to just being flexible in your bargain hunting. To be precise, I mean turning up to an airport without prebooking anything, and convincing a complete stranger to put you onboard (not necessarily for a huge distance) without them making a profit. You'd have no idea where you would end up, or how long it might take, and at most you would pay gas (kerosene?) money and give some little presents. Can it be done, and how would you do it? Cod Lover Oil (talk) 18:13, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Assuming you're not talking about trying to hitchhike on a commercial airliner, which would never allow this, it could be possible. Many private pilots rent a plane for a few hours with the ostensible reason that they want to buy a "$100 hamburger", meaning they want to fly from Airport 1 to Airport 2, have lunch at Airport 2, and then fly back. Of course, if you convince one of these pilots to bring you along, you aren't going to get very far, and it seems to me that finding a willing pilot would be rare enough that you have to assume you're going to be stranded at Airport 2. I googled airplane hitchhiking and saw some first-person accounts. Comet Tuttle (talk) 18:25, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Certainly this will never happen on commercial airlines - the rules imposed upon them are just too strict - and it's hard to imagine the owner of an executive jet just offering you a free ride. So you're down to light aircraft with amateur/enthusiast pilots who just fly for fun. I could certainly imagine finding someone who would take you along for the ride if you paid your share of the costs...but bear in mind, you wouldn't just be paying for a few gallons of avgas. Light aircraft have strict limits on the number of flight hours each component of the plane can fly without mandatory replacement or overhaul - and light aircraft owners and operators track that and treat it as a 'per hour' cost who's value they know rather accurately. Also, unlike a car, the amount of gas the plane uses increases significantly with the amount of weight it's carrying - so it's not a zero-cost thing to pick up a hitchhiker. So most pilots would (I'd imagine) ask for a share of the flight costs...certainly so if they rented a plane (as many do). I think it would also depend a lot on where in the world you were. I could imagine getting a heap/free ride with an Alaskan/Northern-Canadian or Australian bush-pilot - or with the Australian or African flying doctor services where you might be able to earn your ride by helping out with dispensing medicines or hauling Land Rover parts when you get to your destination (I've actually done that with the East Africa flying doctor service in Nairobi when my father piloted for them back in the 1970's). SteveBaker (talk) 18:55, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Someone with a private pilots license isn't allow to take paying passengers, but they usually are allowed to share the costs of a flight with their passengers, so I wouldn't be surprised if quite a few light aircraft pilots would accept such a deal. Whether they would accept it from a random person that turned up at the airport, I'm not so sure. You would be better off trying to find a pilot in advance (there must be web forums for light aircraft pilots, try one of those). --Tango (talk) 19:05, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Also, there would be almost zero point in turning up at an airport - those are places where large passenger aircraft come and go - and the landing fees for small planes pretty much ensures that the only light aircraft there are being flown for some solid business reason and certainly wouldn't pick up a hitchhiker. What you want is a small airfield - which are mostly full of flying schools and amateur pilots. SteveBaker (talk) 19:56, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Not always true, the majority at many small airports is still general aviation if you are in a more rural area. A good example is Sioux Gateway Airport (SUX) Where 65% of the flights are general aviation, and only 16% are commercial. Googlemeister (talk) 20:39, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

I have been offered (and accepted) an hour's flying with a friend with a private pilot's license. They wanted to keep up their hours in order to keep their license and asked around various friends for help paying for the aircraft rental. The only problem with that kind of thing as a way of hitching, is the aircraft is based at a certain airfield and needs to be returned there withing the hour. However, there are also air couriers, who supposedly fly for very low cost (or maybe free) in order to accompany some package to its destination. Astronaut (talk) 01:04, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Light aircraft pilots and hobbiests often fly on short notice for charity causes, see Angel Flight for some examples. It isn't exactly "hitchhiking", but it does highlight the fact that it is possible to get someone to take you somewhere. Of course, to use those services you generally need a serious medical condition and the need for transport to a far-away place for treatment. --Jayron32 05:13, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Fake job references

Ok... stumbled on CareerExcuse.com tonight, and thought it was too good to be true. Is it? Maybe dishonest, but I could really use some help getting a summer job. And is there anything similar in England? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.140.52.182 (talk) 20:43, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Well, that's quite something. If we grant that it's not a practical joke, gag site, or scam, I would strongly recommend you seek professional legal advice about your own civil or criminal liability before you use such a service to fabricate references and generate fake documentation in order to secure employment under false pretences. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 21:04, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Wow, that's the worst thing I've ever seen. One untrue statement of theirs stood out for me: "One final note. Lying on a resume is not a crime. A resume is not a legal document." Although the latter sentence is true, fraud certainly does not require a legal document to be the instrument of fraud. Comet Tuttle (talk) 21:36, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Indeed. You're getting money as a result of a lie - that's fraud. --Tango (talk) 22:47, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

I think the site's quote might be one of those "strictly true but misleading" statements. Lying on a resume probably isn't illegal, its the taking a job on false pretences that is. In other words you could use the false resume to impress people legally, but not to apply for a job. -- Q Chris (talk) 17:10, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Or perhaps lying on the resume isn't illegal, but sending someone a false resume (to solicit a job) is. So you can use their service to create a false resume, as long as you don't use it. Or the site may just be completely illegal (it certainly seems to be encouraging and assisting in illegal activity). --Tango (talk) 17:30, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

According to the Grauniad, there has been at least one conviction under the Fraud Act 2006 for falsifying details on a CV. Apart from climbing to the top of the job applicant pile through deceit, you may well be putting yourself at risk of prosecution and imprisonment. Brammers (talk/c) 22:44, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

...not only that, but it could easily deny employment to more honest candidates. Nothing really beats the truth when applying for jobs. Simply ask someone who knows you or who you have previously worked for if they would provide a reference, Unless you are some serious fuck-up there really shouldn't be a problem. Astronaut (talk) 00:49, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

... in getting a job on your own merits? Or in getting away with using a false resume? Can you disambiguate your comment, Astronaut. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 00:55, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

In my opinion, the lying on your resume or references is not worth it. If you get caught, you could be charged with as crime, and even if you evade legal repercussions, it will do your future career much more damage. Astronaut (talk) 23:48, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

The important thing to remember about lying on your job application is that if you are found out, it's grounds for immediate dismissal for cause -- which can have consequences such as ineligibility for unemployment benfits or difficulty finding further employment. --Carnildo (talk) 00:55, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Very true. While it is fraud, few employers would bother with that (unless it was a really highly paid job), they would just fire you. I think the case referenced in the above link was prosecuted because she forged a reference and discharge notice from the Royal Navy. The Crown Prosecution Service are likely to be more concerned about that than a similar offence related to a private employer. --Tango (talk) 01:08, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

As an object lesson in resume fraud, see George_O'Leary#Notre_Dame. --Jayron32 04:19, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

WHAAOE: job fraud, although it's not great. For another salutary lesson, see this Life photo of John Davy, convicted, imprisoned, and deported for fraud after lying on a job application in NZ. He faked a degree and a job reference apparently. You might find this Caslon Analytics article interesting; it has other examples of sacked, embarrassed, sued, and convicted individuals following resume fraud. Gwinva (talk) 05:02, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

I hate to say it, but if you were skilled enough to pass off a fake resume without ever being caught, you'd probably not have too much issue finding a job honestly. Just think about when your potential employer sees that French degree and asks you "Pourquoi avez-vous etudie francais?" (forgive the lack of accents). It would be pure luck if you were able to respond. Same for any degree that you did not study, by the way. No matter how careful you are, if you make serious departures from reality, you'll be found out. You can't live a fake life; very few people are that skilled. I shouldn't try to discourage you and just let you get what you deserve, but I'm too nice of a person. Falconus^{p t c} 18:08, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Not to encourage any fraud, but I once looked for a job through a commercial employment agency. When telling about my previous jobs, I exaggerated and embellished quite a bit, but then the mediator phoned the company, and I heard her exaggerating and embellishing my story! I got the job and nobody ever found out that I was not quite as experienced as they thought... Lova Falk talk 18:20, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Heard who exaggerating and embellishing your story? Your previous employer? Were you currently working there? Perhaps they were desperate to get rid of you! ;) --Tango (talk) 20:36, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

No, not my previous employer! A professional job mediator - if I got the job it meant she had done HER job. Win-win! :) Lova Falk talk 08:33, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

There's embellishment and then there's embellishment. In my job I look at a lot of resumes, and most can do with some improvement. If the person worked in a job from December 2008 to February 2009, they'll usually show this as "December 2008-February 2009"; but I encourage them to show it as just "2008-09". It's not lying; the potential employer might at first assume it was for much or all of both years, but they might be astute enough to not assume this. When asked for details, the applicant can then say exactly how long the job lasted. But presenting it this way gives the applicant the best chance of making a good first impression, without lying, about the stability of their previous employment; first impressions - not 2nd, 3rd or 99th - are what's important in this game. The only point of a resume is to get you to the interview stage; the point of the interview is to get you the job. In a highly competitive buyer's market, the more creative and impressive a jobseeker can be with their resume, the better. Just as we devote more attention on our talk page to rule breakers than we do to those who play by the rules, it's the people who stand out in the job market that get the attention. Standing out without breaking the rules, that's the catch. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 22:33, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

A lot of jobs require a degree but don't care what the degree is in. Those jobs you might be able to get away with lying about having a degree. Also, some jobs can be done just as well, if not better, by someone with 20 years experience and no degree than someone just out of university, but they require a degree for bureaucratic reasons. Lying about having a degree to get through that loophole could also work. (Of course, I don't encourage anyone to actually do that - even if you are brilliant at the job you will most likely still get fired if you are found out.) --Tango (talk) 20:36, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

It hadn't been planning to mention this but it occured to me that it's actually quite relevant considering some of the answers above. There was another case in NZ recently where the offender (even though her name is widely published, I prefer not to mention it for WP:BLP reasons) was sentenced to 100 hours of community service and fined her $10,000 for falsely claiming she had a doctorate from the London School of Economics. See [11] [12] [13]. While a much lesser sentence, her chance of getting another job in the public sector in NZ are considered extremely slim (the judge said her career prospects in public service now looked bleak and there was a significant loss to her reputation) and I expect she'll have big problems in the private sector as well.

As per my first source, JD has complained about the double standard but, and here's one of the reasons I mention her, as per the sources it's generally accepted that her lie didn't actually make much of a difference to her getting the job, there's no real question she wasn't qualified, and although she did have some problems which lead to her resignation they related to a COI, not her qualifications. Also while she didn't have a Ph.D as she claimed, she had studied towards a Masters, submit a draft thesis which was considered inadequate for doctoral level but above the level needed for a Masters (in the end she didn't do the oral examination and didn't get anything I believe). The judge said said at the sentencing indication hearing that there was nothing to suggest she would not have got those jobs or that she could not do the work and "In fact the contrary seems to be the case, she worked and served the New Zealand public extremely well". See also this Kiwiblog [14], a New Zealand blogger who's views are often quite far from mine.

In other words, there's a fair/good? chance she would have gotten her job anyway even if she hadn't lied and it didn't appear to make any difference to her performance. However she was still prosecuted and punished (while her sentence may sound like a slap on the wrist to some, it's probably helpful to get an idea of what sort of crimes get similar sentences in NZ e.g. [15], [16] & [17]) and now finds her career prospects dim. These are high level and high profile cases but this one in particular echos what was said above, if you do lie and are found out, you will very likely lose your job and suffer the negative consequences that result, even if you performance was fine and may have even got the job without the lie.

Note the first link also mentions how JD continues to suffer the negative consequences of omeone searching for his name and finding the news stories from NZ. In particular he seems to not like [18] (which also discussed the other things he got up to prior to the NZ case) that's the first Google result for him in in NZ, although not for Bing and perhaps not outside NZ.

Nil Einne (talk) 01:07, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

standalone dvd player and text subtitlte files

I burn an avi file and srt file together in a folder and try to play it on the DVD player that can play compressed avi files. But the subtitles are not displayed. Incapability of the player or some file naming problem? Can such players have file name length limitation in recognising subtitles?--117.204.81.235 (talk) 20:54, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't know whether your DVD player is capable of using a separate srt subtitle file. The subtitles on DVD films are often embedded in the video. I play .avi's with .srt's on PC players VLC media player and DivX player. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 00:27, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

While DVDs may occasionally use hard coded subtitles for short amounts of different language dialog, AFAIK most DVDs use soft subtitles for normal stuff (like English subtiles for a non English movie or series, German subtitles for a non German movie or series, etc). These are part of the stream and are stored as images (not text like srt and many other subtitle formats although if you're ripping from DVD you may include the original DVD subtitles usually as sub+idx). More details [19].

In terms of the original question, I hadn't thought they would, but it appears some players do support subtitles with avi files [20]. I don't know how likely a file length limitation is since the avi and srt file should have the same file name length. However you could always try something like file.avi and file.srt. Failing that, look into the manual of your player and search for the model number.

Nil Einne (talk) 09:07, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

The way I get around this problem is to use a program called "ffmpegx" (this is for a Mac, btw) which combines the avi and srt files. So it creates a new avi file with the subtitles hardcoded. I then use Toast to make a DVD out of the avi file. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 15:06, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

European Currency and Financial Crisis - what Crisis?

OK, so the Euro nations are in crisis - no argument. So how is it that whenever I try to book a holiday in Spain, Greece, France, Portugal, Italy et al, the prices shown for flights and accommodation (from the UK) are way above recent inflation rates. Obviously, as a result, I will choose to stay at home in the UK, which will support the £ Sterling at the expense of my preferred destinations within the warmer Euro area. My question? In the Euro zone, whilst it is accepted that the constituent economy options are severely restricted by EU policy, there are NO restrictions on travel and hotel pricing strategies. So why are Greece, Spain and Italy etc., NOT implementing domestic strategies to keep tourist prices DOWN, thus attracting lots of foreign investment??? Instead, I find that all those economies are INCREASING their tourist rates in the hope that those increases will pay for their earlier profligacy when in fact, all they are doing is deterring those tourists from travelling within their economies (like me), and instead choosing to travel to non-EU countries like Argentina or Brazil or Cuba. Question - how valuable is tourism to solving a deficient economy? 92.30.75.97 (talk) 22:27, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Prices for things like airline tickets, hotel rooms, and restaurant foods are controlled by a lot more than government policy. Some government policies can have some effect on such prices, but the governments of these countries are not monolithic bodies which set prices for hotel rooms. Prices are set by many thousands of individual players who arrive at their prices basically by free-market principles such as supply and demand and other market forces. While the state may manipulate such forces to some extent, they cannot arbitrarily control them. Just because the Greek government may want more people to visit Greece and spend money there doesn't mean they can make it happen. --Jayron32 04:16, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

The price for the same 200g bag of mixed nuts and raisins at Tescos UK has risen from 65p to £1.25 in just a few weeks. Perhaps they are exploiting the recent health advice that unsalted unroasted nuts are good for you (in moderation). 92.28.242.45 (talk) 09:33, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Recent health advice? Nuts (unadulterated by salt and oil, of course) have been considered a healthy food for as long as I can remember. --Tango (talk) 20:39, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

I can get 20% more Euros per US dollar than 6 months ago. By contrast, the British pound has only moved 6% relative to the Euro. Maybe the tourism industry pricing is responding more to the US and other overseas tourists who have relatively more purchasing power under current conditions. Dragons flight (talk) 09:45, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Airlines are having a hard time staying solvent with the drop in traffic due to the recession and the rise in fuel prices since last year. They have no choice but to cut flights and raise prices. As for accommodations in Mediterranean countries, as you can imagine, people are reluctant to accept a pay cut, which is what price cuts would amount to for the small proprietors who own most small hotels and pensions in resort areas. Even for the larger corporate hotels, their costs are somewhat fixed and they may not have a large margin for price cuts without eliminating profits. In many Mediterranean countries, it is difficult to lay off employees or implement pay cuts. So they are somewhat stuck. I suspect that if you wait until later in the season, you will be able to negotiate lower rates from proprietors desperate to fill rooms. They may be in denial now about the need to do so. As for your last question, tourism could potentially be quite helpful to Mediterranean countries in overcoming their crises. They all need to boost their export earnings to service their external debt, and tourism revenue is similar to export earnings in that it is money coming from outside the country. In addition, these countries already have extensive tourist sectors, so tourism is a natural sector for them to cultivate. Unfortunately, the kinds of policy decisions that might boost tourism earnings (particularly making it easier for employers to lay off redundant employees) are very politically unpopular, and these countries' governments have already had to make many unpopular decisions. The governments will be reluctant to make decisions that could ruin their chances at the next election. In the long run, due to the effects of peak oil, however, it would make sense for these countries to shift their economies away from tourism, which will probably no longer be economically viable on anything like the present scale. My own very unorthodox opinion is that it would be best for the people of these countries for them to default on their debts and withdraw from the euro, then focus their resources on building resilient local economies and reducing their dependence on trade and tourism. Marco polo (talk) 15:36, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

May 29

California property tax history

Property tax payments are payable in two installments. The delinquent date for the 1st installment is December 10 the delinquent date for the 2nd installment is April 10th.

Why were those delinquent dates chosen?

I heard that, in the early days, each county had to send its property tax payments by train to Sacramento so the money would be deposited by December 31st. Is that true? Where can I get more info about this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gcotterl (talk • contribs) 02:12, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Smith Bros.?

In Roger Ebert's review of the first Sex and the City movie, he says: "The girls go sunbathing in crotch-hugging swimsuits, and Miranda is ridiculed for the luxuriant growth of her pubic hair. How luxuriant? One of her pals describes it as 'The National Forest,' and there’s a shot of the offending proliferation that popped the Smith Bros. right into my head."

Question: What does that last sentence refer to? Smith Brothers doesn't seem to fit. --zenohockey (talk) 08:39, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Having looked at Smith Brothers, I wonder whether the luxuriant facial hair of the gentlemen in question could be a clue? Karenjc 09:15, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

QUERY REF WOOD FLOORING

HI I AM A WOOD FLOOR INSTALLER LIVING IN IRELAND I HAVE BEEN INSTALLING FLOORS FOR THE LAST 8 YEARS ALL MY WORK HAS BEEN DOMESTIC WORK I HAVE BEEN ASKED TO INSTALL A SOLID FLOOR IN A GYM THE SPEC IS ;;;; RUBBER FIXED TO BATTONS THEN 18MM PLYWOOD THEN SECRET NAIL FLOOR WHAT EXPANSION IS NEEDED ???? WHAT ELSE SHOULD I LOOK OUT FOR???? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Heffo7 (talk • contribs) 14:09, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Please don't use all capitals when posting a question, it looks as though you are shouting. Richard Avery (talk) 14:40, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

12mm Cork strips around the perimeter, or at least along the long side of the boards.--Artjo (talk) 16:14, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

That sounds like a simple sprung floor. Dmcq (talk) 19:37, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Except some expensive sprung floors are based on two or sometimes three layers of crossing joists.--Artjo (talk) 21:34, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

In North America a gym floor would have at least 2-3" free all around, with a ventilated wood or rubber base covering the gap. Otherwise, it will buckle. Acroterion _(talk) 23:52, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Italicizing 'of,' 'the,' etc.

I often see words like 'of' and 'the' italicized in titles, designs, etc. – for example, Department of Chemistry or DEPARTMENT of MATHEMATICS (college-related examples). Is there a name and/or reason for this? Thanks, [sd] 16:41, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

What about trying the language reference desk - WP:RD/L? It's to do with fonts and stuff so the people there might know. Chevymontecarlo 16:59, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Thank you. If anyone reading this would like to respond, please reply there. [sd] 17:07, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Hijabi feet

Is there a site where I can view of photos of barefeet of Hijab-wearing Muslim? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.14.118.33 (talk) 19:55, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Cat fish reared in captivity

Is Cat Fish reared in plastic tanks toxic or harmful to human health when consumed? Emma. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.205.163.97 (talk) 21:09, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

That would depend on many factors:

1) Are they plastics which leach out chemicals ?

2) Is the water otherwise pure and disease-free ?

3) How healthy is the naturally caught fish you are comparing with ? StuRat (talk) 02:25, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

The size of the tank would also be an issue - because the amount of plastic in contact with the water (and thus able to leach) is proportional to the square of the size of the tank - but the amount of water is proportional to the cube of the size. So in very small tanks, you'd expect leaching to a much more serious issue than in very large tanks where the effect of dilution would help immensely.

The issue is more complex than that though. Most of the problems with chemicals in fish comes about through the effects of biological concentration. Suppose that whatever chemical impurities there are end up being accumulated in the fishes' body. If small fish take in the chemical in the water and store it - and some larger fish eats those small fish throughout it's lifetime, it gets one dose of the chemical from the water it passes through - and ANOTHER dose from the fish it eats. If that fish is then eaten by a yet bigger fish then the amount of the chemical is increased again. For large carnivorous fish, this is a big issue - hence the issue of Mercury concentration in Tuna.

So in the case of tank-raised catfish, we should be concerned that they live in large tanks. We'd need to ask how the food they are fed on is raised. If fed on live food - you'd want to know how those creatures were raised or caught.

One mitigating factor is if the chemical in question is stored in a specific part of the fish. If, for example, the chemical ends up being concentrated in the liver or kidneys of the fish - then if we only each the muscular parts of the fish, there is likely to be no risk to humans even if the leaching is severe and there is biological concentration. But if the chemical is concentrated in the muscles - there should be more cause for concern.

SteveBaker (talk) 15:48, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

You might find the article on biological magnification of interest. Dismas|^(talk) 16:36, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Except that catfish, especially farmed catfish, are pretty much at the bottom of the food chain, so biological magnification isn't relevant in this case. Buddy431 (talk) 17:04, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

I can't help but wonder what psychological factors pertain to the eating of an animal that had been so dependent on our care for so long. I realize it is only a fish, but its care requires providing for it an environment so different from our own. Providing it with an aquatic environment artificially situated within our own dry environment is in a sense no small undertaking. Chickens by contrast either roam free or are contained in cages not necessarily always within our view. But I'm assuming the tank in question is within a room of human living quarters. And the creature within that environment is heavily dependent on us for an extensive range of its needs: aeration, feeding, cleaning of the tank and water. I am not saying that one should not eat such a creature when it reaches sizable portion. But I think that it is not entirely out of the question that there be potential psychological consequences that it might do well to consciously give consideration to. I think that there is a phenomenon by which attachments are formed to that which is given care and assistance in its existence. Bus stop (talk) 16:22, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Catfish is one fish where farming beats wild hands down from an ecological standpoint. Catfish farming is quite sustainable: the fish are farmed in inland ponds with recirculated water, and fed a mostly vegetarian diet (so that production is quite efficient). See [21]. We also have the article Aquaculture of catfish. As for health, Steve's concerns about being high on the food chain are largely non-existent for farmed catfish; they're fed soybeans. For wild catfish, it may be more of an issue; they're essentially scavengers, after all. Quite apart from healthiness, wild catfish are often said to taste "muddy", probably owing to their habitat in shallow cow ponds, and such. However, I did discover one article that claims that farmed fish, including farmed catfish, don't have as many of the Omega-3 fatty acids that are one of the reason fish are so good for you [22]. Most store-bought catfish in the US is farmed. It's usually suggested to make sure that it's USA produced; some of the Asian stuff can a) be different species than you're used to and b) be farmed in a less sustainable/healthy/regulated manner. Buddy431 (talk) 16:38, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

May 30

Travel connection: Duesseldorf to Schiphol Airport

On the last Monday of August, I'm plotting a route leaving an event in Duesseldorf ca. 1300 and flying out of Amsterdam's Schiphol airport at 21:00 (international flight, check-in 2 hours earlier?). There's an organized group traveling to Koeln (to catch a charter flight) - would it be easier to join them as far as Koeln and then go on to Schiphol from there, or just head straight from Duesseldorf? And what are the approximate travel times and advisable connections (train? tram?). -- Deborahjay (talk) 03:53, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

If you want to go by train, from Düsseldorf to Amsterdam Centraal by ICE train is about 2 hours 10 minutes. The German railways timetable server, bahn.hafas.de, shows departures from Düsseldorf on that date at 13:14 and at 15:14, which would do nicely for you. (The next one is at 18:14.) There are several trains an hour from Centraal to Schiphol, which is a short trip, so even if your train from Germany was late there would be no problem getting onward to the airport. (For the 13:14 departure the timetable server shows you can get to the airport a bit faster by changing at Utrecht instead of going into Amsterdam.) --Anonymous, 04:53 UTC, May 30, 2010.

There is an excellent route planning web site run by the German train company [23]. From looking at that, it would appear that trains from Cologne get to Amsterdam via Dusseldorf, so I can't see that there would be any advantage to be had by going to Cologne first. --Phil Holmes (talk) 11:12, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Netherlandish online communities?

Does anyone know about any online communities from Netherland? With the with the sole aim to make new friends and networking, not pure dating sites. Are there any big communities like that? Thanks :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.215.165.169 (talk) 20:47, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Hyves seems to be the most popular. Marco polo (talk) 00:49, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Soldiers rescued at Argonne Forest

During the World War 1 at the Argonne Forest, France only 194 were rescued. Is there any way I can find out the names of the soldiers rescued. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.79.12.80 (talk) 22:28, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

I would start by contacting the Imperial War Museum, London, who keep huge amounts of records of this kind. If they don't have them they can probably tell you who has. Caesar's Daddy (talk) 07:59, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

May 31

question about breathing

recently bought an inflatable chair, and have just spent a few minutes blowing it up. Afterwards I had a slight headache for a moment, felt a little dizzy. but then I noticed something strange, any time I went to move, raising an arm to brush hair out of my face for example, whatever I wanted to do seemed to happen automatically, without having to think about it, everything seemed to be much easier for a while, whilst my brain seemed somehow disconnected from the rest of me, as though I wasn't actually thinking anything. A little strange, though the feeling went away after a while, I was wondering what might have caused this. Too much breathing perhaps, more oxygen flowing around than usual, or maybe breathing too fast, not giving my body time to extract enough oxygen, or maybe something more to do with overusing the muscles involved? Anyone have any ideas?

148.197.114.158 (talk) 09:45, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Hyperventilation may help you (the article not the action!). Caesar's Daddy (talk) 10:30, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

wood floor installation

 hi i have been installing wood floors for the past 8 years
 all of my work has been domestic work 
 eg private houses ;;;;
 i have been asked to install a solid floor in a gym
 this floor is been fitted as follows 
 rubber strips fixed to battons
 battons layed out on concrete floor
18mm plywood fixed to battons
 18mm solid wood secret nailed on to plywood
 the floor area is 16m by 37m
 what do i need to waych out for 
 eg expansion
thanks you Heffo7 (talk) 10:10, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Heffo7, you have already asked this question just up the page and seemed to have got some reasonable answers. Are you looking for some specific advice that you have not yet received? Thank you for not shouting this time ;-) Caesar's Daddy (talk) 10:26, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Shrooms

I have eaten magic mushroom on a number of occasions inmy life in places where it was legal. However I have wondered for years, if I eat some today and feel the effects, tomorrow I can eat as many as I like and will not feel any effects. Why is this, Why is it that one has to wait several weeks to eat them again and feel effects. Further more, can the active ingredients be transfered via the spores, as I have found in the past, (I am older and wiser now) that whenthey are in the deepfreeze, in the same room as me, I can get quite stoned from them, just by being in the same room. Thanks p.s. I would strongly advise anyone not to do these ever as years later I still have flashbacks, which can be very bad especially if one is at work, or in a church etc.