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April 28

Cars flying yellow flags in London yesterday

I drove past a line of about 10 cars flying yellow flags yesterday, on the southbound A41 in northwest London. The flags had some stylised (and difficult to read) letters on them, which may have been P, K and A. Some of the cars (of varying age, colour and type) also had a similar design on their bonnets. Most of the cars had the same photo stuck in their back window of a slightly tubby man in an olive green shirt, wearing some kind of turban which had an end trailing out of it. Both this man and the people in the cars looked "Middle Eastern" to my very inexpert eye. Anyone know what this might have been? --86.12.139.50 (talk) 13:44, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Could it have been the Flag of Hezbollah? --Jayron32 14:37, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

15 February 2003, PKK supporters at the protest in London.

Could it have been the PKK, a Kurdish liberation/terrorist organization ? The often use yellow or red flags, and sometimes put a face on those flags, or along with them. They also have a presence in London, as shown in the pic. StuRat (talk) 16:10, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Who or what is the target of their protest? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:48, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Pick link in caption. Seemed to be part of an anti-Iraq war protest. StuRat (talk) 18:58, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Would they still be protesting Gulf War II in 2014? That's pretty much over and done with. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:25, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

No, but they might well be protesting the war in Syria or the continued violence in Iraq now. The yellow on their flags, the P and K in their acronym, their presence in London, and their tendency to display large photos of people during such protests, all make me think they could be what was seen by the OP. StuRat (talk) 16:31, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

I'm sure everyone in Syria would like the war to end. Which side would they be protesting for, or against? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:17, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Obviously not everyone, or it would end. And the Kurds might actually benefit from it, in that with the government and rebels fighting, both may leave them alone, allowing them to build up their own military capabilities and hopefully remain independent after the war ends. This is somewhat similar to the situation in Iraq, where conflict between the Sunnis and Shia left them somewhat independent. Of course, all this comes at the cost of many lives, so others will argue it's not worth it. StuRat (talk) 22:25, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Pretty much everyone in Syria, every "side" of the war, wants it to end, but the catch is that every side also wants to win. If all but one of the various sides abandoned that goal, then it would stop. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:37, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

There are all those foreign fighters who came there specifically to fight, such as Al Qeada affiliates and Hezbollah. I have to think at least a few of those are sadists who just came there because they enjoy killing people. StuRat (talk) 04:43, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

That's possible. So, which of those groups are the protestors protesting for or against? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:29, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

You'd have to ask them, but it's possible they are protesting against all of them. StuRat (talk) 21:47, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Nope, neither Hezbolla nor PKK. The flags had the initials in the centre and I think no other design. --78.144.74.247 (talk) 22:37, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

I had a very thorough trawl of news sites for a demonstration in London on that day and drew a blank. It seems that ten cars and some flags isn't enough to interest the news media. Alansplodge (talk) 12:09, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Could it have been a funeral procession ? Perhaps the pic was of the dead guy. Other cultures do things a bit differently, so that might explain the yellow flags. StuRat (talk) 16:37, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Possibly Norwich City supporters travelling to the match with Chelsea. --Phil Holmes (talk) 11:50, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Euler–Fokker genus 333 problem

I was using scala, a program to do alternate musical tunings and found one called EFG[333] that i liked it, there was also others with similar name EFG[357], EFG[355]......
I decided to try to find the pattern those tunings followed and found the wikipedia article Euler–Fokker genus. And the article said "For example, the multiset {3, 3, 7} yields the Euler–Fokker genus [3, 3, 7], which contains these pitches:

      1
  3  =3
    7=7
3×3  =9
  3×7=21
3×3×7=63

Normalized to fall within an octave, these become: 1/1, 9/8, 21/16, 3/2, 7/4, 63/32"
So, if I understood right, on EFG [333]:
You would get 3 and div by 2 until it become a number between 1 and 2 (3/2), then you get 3 multiply by 3 and div by 2 until it become a number betwen 1 and 2 (9/8), then you get the number 3 multiply by 3, then multiply by 3 again and div by 2 until it become a number betwen 1 and 2 (27/16). So in the end the pitches would be 4 ones, 1/1, 3/2, 9/8 and 27/16.
The problem is that the file in the scala program give the pitch 4/3 instead of 27/16. I checked a file called EFG[3335], so, a file that has the 3*3*3 thing and yet this new file didnt had the 27/16 pitch file (but had the 4/3) one.
4/3 is 1.3333333 and if i am right you will not reach a integer by multiplying by 2, no matter how many times you do it.
What I OR the program is doing wrong? 201.78.220.207 (talk) 13:54, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

I don't know anything about Scala, but I agree with you that no number 3^n/2^m can possibly equal 4/3. I wonder if Scala might also give you the inverses of these intervals, in which case 3/2 (a fifth) inverted and moved to the basic octave would be 4/3 (a fourth). --ColinFine (talk) 14:11, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

I can see how your calculation and Scala's calculation are related, but I don't understand the subject enough to tell if one is or both are the "correct" Euler-Fokker genus [333].

  You calculated normalized( 3^0, 3^1, 3^2, 3^3).
Scala calculated normalized(3^-1, 3^0, 3^1, 3^2).

   Your pitches in order: 1/1, 9/8, 3/2, 27/16, (2/1, 9/4,  3/1)
Scala's pitches in order:           1/1,  9/8 ,  4/3, 3/2, (2/1)

(If you start with your pitch 3/2 and divide your pitches by 3/2, you get Scala's pitches.)

   Your scale is very close to playing C, D, G, A, (C')          on a piano.
Scala's scale is very close to playing       G, A,  C', D', (G') on a piano.

--Bavi H (talk) 03:10, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Well program has a thing that compared some tuning file with others tuning files from a folder, I made my genus[333] and compared with all tuning files from a folder with many tuning files. The program said "your tuning is equal to genus[333] (scala program one, not mine) in key 2". Then I got my version of genus and use the scala program to increase the key of it by or to 2, whateaver this means, and it turned into the one scala said is the true genus one. This almost answers my question.

Also This may be related with what BAVI H said in " (If you start with your pitch 3/2 and divide your pitches by 3/2, you get Scala's pitches.)", maybe this is the formula for putting stuff in key 2. 201.78.208.216 (talk) 11:48, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Why aren't my hatched Rattata learning Hyper Fang?

In FireRed, I remember breeding Rattata that learned Hyper Fang from their mother, A Raticate named Brenna who knew Hyper Fang, Super Fang, Attract, and Shock Wave. Now, in Pokemon Y I'm using the same mother (Brenna) but none of the babies are knowing Hyper Fang. What changed between the two gens, and what can I do to fix it? 184.189.220.172 (talk) 20:07, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Rattata learns Hyper Fang by leveling up, not by breeding. It gets it at level 16. It never learned it as an egg move. Mingmingla (talk) 20:17, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

What language are you folks jabbering in? -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:55, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

It's an arcane tongue that I used to hear my pre-teens speaking, when they were pre-teens. - Eron^Talk 22:01, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Back when nobody really called them tweens (or millenials). This game helped build those markets, I think. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:48, April 29, 2014 (UTC)

The latest bit of bullshit corporate-speak for people born in the digital age and are completely at ease with all of its aspects including arcane jargon, is "digital native". That's appearing in job ads now, and is code for "Anyone aged over 30 need not apply. If you ever had to relearn this stuff after being taught the traditional ways of doing things, no matter how expert you think you may have become, you'll only slow us down because you'll think you know better. You'll probably use lunch breaks and down time to reminisce about how things were "in your day" and infest younger minds with wider perspectives and broader horizons, and we can't have that".

At the same time, youth unemployment is reaching alarming levels. It seems all jobs are designed for people aged 23-27 now. After that, you're washed up. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 20:54, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

And yet all the entry-level jobs I find have the requirement "Must have at least two years experience." Ian.thomson (talk) 20:57, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Solved it; In FireRed, the father must have been a Rattata that also knew Hyper Fang. As per Bulbapedia: "If both parents know a move that the baby can learn via leveling up, the Pokémon will inherit that move." 184.189.220.172 (talk) 04:24, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

***** Best RD Question Ever *****

μηδείς (talk) 17:17, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Pokemon questions are fairly common here. The answer to all of them is "check bulbapedia" -- that site is so comprehensive. With respect to topic coverage, it makes WP pale in comparison. SemanticMantis (talk) 16:28, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Assuming you're replying to me, perhaps "Best Header Ever" (Why aren't my hatched Rattata learning Hyper Fang?) would have been more accurate.

(previous comment was an unsigned !nosign comment. Following comment is by a different user.) 86.146.28.229 (talk) 17:17, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

For a snapshot of a formative time in both wikis development, that maybe helps explain this, see Wikipedia:Poképrosal. This page rather downplays the emphasis on "pokécruft", and the general rhetoric about what light this cast the project in, but have a poké around. 86.146.28.229 (talk) 17:15, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

April 29

Longest time of homelessness

Are there well verified documented reports of people who were homeless for more than 50 years? 112.198.90.16 (talk) 10:32, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

As of 1995, there were an estimated 30–40 million Nomads in the world. 84.209.89.214 (talk) 11:34, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

The Dalai Lama has said of himself that he has been homeless for fifty years in exile. So, yes, you would need to define what you mean by homelessness, e.g. would it still count if someone were "housed" for a week or two during that period?--Shantavira|^{feed me} 15:38, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Yes. This lovely man Jozef Stawinoga lived in a tent in the middle of the Wolverhampton Ring Road for years. --TammyMoet (talk) 19:30, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Cracked published an article just today about Andras Tomas, who was misplaced from a POW camp after the war. Depending on your definition of homeless, he was away for 53 years. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:40, April 29, 2014 (UTC)

Unknown Editing

Hi, I recently got a message at User talk:67.1.254.182 saying that my "edit" to a Cochise College page was deleted, however I have never edited any page on wikipedia, nor do I have an account. I'm not sure why this is, but I thought I'd bring it to your attention, I hope this is not a waste of your time.

Thanks, — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.1.254.182 (talk) 15:14, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

you guys are great and are doing a good job — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.206.230.146 (talk) 15:29, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Please read the boxed notice at the bottom of your talk page for a full explanation. StuRat (talk) 16:27, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

67.1.254.182 is your current IP address. However, your ISP can change this, when one of these occur, depending on how you connect

1. You dial up
2. You turn your cable/ADSL modem off
3. You turn your mobile/cell phone's data connection off

This could also be an HTTP proxy, which means all your ISP's customers go through it. In any case, the message is probably aimed at a previous owner of this IP address. CS Miller (talk) 20:19, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Briefly - if you don't create an account and log in when using Wikipedia, then the only identification we have of you is the "IP address" that your computer uses to talk to us with. In most cases, that number is allocated to you by your internet service provider - and it's possible (actually, very likely) that the number they allocate to you may change from one day to the next. Hence the IP address you have right now (which is 67.1.254.182) will have been temporarily allocated to one or more people in the past.

So if someone who previously wound up with 67.1.254.182 edited that article, and the edit was subsequently deleted for some reason - it's perfectly possible that someone else gets the notification...and clearly, that's what happened here. At 12:30pm on Feb 17th, someone using "your" IP address vandalized that article by replacing the name of the college president with "Kirt Cormier". That change was detected within just 4 minutes(!) and removed.

The 'fix' for this is to register an account here. If you do that, and log in using it - then all of that confusion and ambiguity goes away because no matter what IP address you're using, Wikipedia will always know you by your login account name.

If you'd prefer not to do that - then, sadly, your edits may at sometime in the future be attributed to someone else - and previous users of your IP address will linger to haunt you. Either ignore those notifications - or create an account.

SteveBaker (talk) 20:20, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

April 30

Looking for source of a quote

I saw it attributed to Groucho Marx, but that doesn't mean much; just about any funny line gets attributed to Marx, Carlin or Twain. I'm also not 100% sure of the exact wording, which may be stymieing my attempts to Google it. Anyway, it goes like this: "To the amateur, nothing is funnier than the sight of a man dressed as an old woman getting pushed off a cliff. But to make a professional laugh, you'd have to use a real old woman." It may have run somewhat longer than that. It feels a bit like something Mel Brooks would say; the feel of it is quite similar to the "Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall into an open sewer and die" line from the 2,000 year old man schtick. But that doesn't seem to be helping me track this down. Matt Deres (talk) 01:40, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Tina Fey. [1] OttawaAC (talk) 03:47, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

She may have said it, but I first read the quote about two decades ago, long before she was famous, and it definitely involved a cliff. Matt Deres (talk) 11:16, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

I recall an earlier version - perhaps attributed to Graham Linehan, although I could be wrong - along the lines of "A person in a wheelchair going over a cliff is funny to most people if they know it's fake; to a comedian, it's only funny if it's real." AlexTiefling (talk) 11:38, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Reminds me of Richard Widmark giggling as he pushes an old lady in a wheelchair down the stairs to kill her in Kiss of Death (1947 film). It seeming funny seems like an indication of psychopathy as in the Widmark movie character. Edison (talk) 14:52, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Number of ships in and around Singapore and Malaysia

Having just sailed around Singapore to the eastern side of Malaysia, I am curious to know the total number of ships anchored in this area. I understand that this area also has a lot of abandoned ships. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 183.171.166.150 (talk) 06:54, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Won't that number vary from day to day? And that's rather a vague description of the area. I suggest you take a look at the satellite view of the area you mean (maybe [here http://goo.gl/maps/ag77n]?) and count them yourself.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 09:16, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Right now, Marine Traffic is telling me that there are 1048 vessels of various kinds in Singapore and the surrounding straits - and that's just vessels which carry AIS transmitters. AlexTiefling (talk) 09:40, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

That's an interesting site Alex, thanks for the link. By the way, did you notice the two pink rectangles in the Indian Ocean off the coast of Australia? Presumably those are the search area for MH370. --Viennese Waltz 15:27, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Yes - if you use the drop-down menu at the top right of the map, it's currently available as the last option. AlexTiefling (talk) 16:44, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Pink rectangles? Whew, for a moment there .... -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:09, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

I'm fairly certain that the ships aren't "abandoned" - they are "laid up" with a skeleton crew, awaiting an upturn in trade when it will be worth crewing and insuring them. See Idling ships clog up Singapore shores. Alansplodge (talk) 17:03, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Here's another site that does the same thing, just for interest's sake. http://shipfinder.co/ Mingmingla (talk) 18:19, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

According to Strait of Malacca, some 94,000 ships passed through in 2008, which would average out to 258 a day. But, those are just passing through, not anchored. The woefully out-dated Port of Singapore article says there are 67 berths, most of which would be handling containers or fuel. Add cruise ships, ferries, private yachts, dive boats and fishing fleets and the odds are that anywhere from 500 to 1,000 ships (and boats) might anchored there on any given day. But, that’s only Singapore, not the entire area.DOR (HK) (talk) 07:47, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Bircham University

Dear Sirs,

Based on the information you provided for Bircham University,Could you kindly confirm if the following institutions are validating BIU as an accredited University?

• Eduespana
• WCRDE(World Council for Regular and Distance Education)
• IOL accreditation

Also, How can a student get a Hague Apostille for the legalization of a Degree with BIU without accreditation?

I am looking forward to hearing from you.

Kind regards, — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.13.164.88 (talk) 21:39, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Everything about Bircham International University appears extremely dodgy. There is no record that it is accredited by any recognized educational accreditation body.

Regarding the three institutions you list, Eduespana doesn't seem to be an accrediting body. I am not sure what "IOL" you mean, but neither this one nor this one seems to accredit universities either. As to WCRDE, Google warns me to stay away from their website due to malware, so I am not going to look into that.

Regarding getting an Apostille for a BIU degree, that sounds a bit like a request for legal advice which we cannot provide. (I would note that there are recognized concerns over the abuse of apostilles with diploma mill certificates.)

- Eron^Talk 22:16, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

May 1

Problems with lethal injections in the U.S.A.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

I have been reading for a while now about the problems experienced with lethal injections used for executions in the United States. I am puzzled because vetinary surgeons have been competently putting animals 'to sleep' for years in a quick, safe, and painless manner. Surely to do that to a human would only be a matter of adjusting the dosage correctly. This is so obvious that I know it must have been considered. Does anybody know why this can't be done? Thank you Gurumaister (talk) 15:26, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Note in the article Animal euthanasia that drugs like pentobarbital are used, and that's what used to be used on humans as well, until its manufacturers decided to ban sales of it to prisons. Hence the prisons are having to use relatively untested drugs, and as the recent Oklahoma story indicates, there may be some glitches. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:54, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

(ec) In recent years, it has been difficult for the remaining death-penalty states to legally acquire drugs for use in lethal injections. European regulations forbid the sale of pharmaceuticals for use in lethal injections, for instance, so if domestic supplies dry up then state executioners are out of luck. (Remarkably, there are some things that are too unethical for even a pharmaceutical company to do, or be seen doing. Some U.S. manufacturers also decline to sell drugs for executions—either because they can't stomach it, or because it would hurt their sales in other jurisdictions.) To take some examples from the recently botched execution of Dennis McGuire in Ohio, the last U.S. manufacturer of sodium thiopental (Ohio's usual execution drug of choice) shut down production in 2011. Ohio's backup stocks of pentobarbital had expired in 2009. That left the state to wing it using whatever drugs they had at hand, and they did a more-than-usually barbaric job of it.

Attempting to conduct animal research with the principal aim of improving methods to execute humans wouldn't fly with any credible research institution's research ethics board (even assuming you could find a researcher who wanted to do the study). Meanwhile, medical doctors are barred by their own rules from participating in or advising on execution strategies as it would be a gross breach of their ethical obligations. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:57, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

We could always go back to the electric chair. Or, a standard knockout drug followed up by a fatal shot of some kind after the subject is unconscious. The folks in Europe are trying to coerce the US states into abandoning the death penalty altogether. But where there's a will, there's a way. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:00, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

In what jurisdiction is refusal to do business "coercion"? Does a shop advertising "no shoes, no shirts, no service" coerce me to get dressed? --Stephan Schulz (talk) 16:18, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Why not just get the jury foreperson to shoot the convict in the face? DuncanHill (talk) 16:03, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

I doubt he would want to stick around the courthouse waiting for the ten-plus years appeal process to complete. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:05, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Fair point, and they might be hard to trace after all that time. How about getting the judge who dismisses the final appeal to do it? DuncanHill (talk) 16:11, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

I think you'd run into a separation of powers problem: the judiciary ought not to carry out executive functions. AlexTiefling (talk) 16:17, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Fine. Have the Governor of the state do it (or the President, for federal cases). With an axe. - Eron^Talk 16:49, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

In the Oklahoma guys, the condemned man had buried his victim alive. If the US were to adopt the idea of doing to the perp what the perp did to the victim, some government official would need a backhoe and a shovel. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:57, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

I haven't seen anyone suggest doing to the murderer what they had done to the victim. DuncanHill (talk) 18:01, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

"...to let the punishment fit the crime, the punishment fit the crime..." (W.S. Gilbert) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:09, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Meanwhile, US support for the death penalty is declining [2], and increased critical attention to the practice in places like Oklahoma will only speed that decline. Marco polo (talk) 16:08, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

I wonder why they don't just use a normally nonlethal drug in lethal quantities, like a massive insulin injection. StuRat (talk) 16:15, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

The side-effects and time taken to die might (and I'm not familiar with the specifics for insulin) be regarded as cruel and unusual. I'm wondering why they don't use something akin to a guillotine. AlexTiefling (talk) 16:17, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

You'd still give the knock-out drug first, so side effects wouldn't be "cruel". As for the guillotine, that's bad in two ways: 1) the head may survive for a bit after, so pain can be experienced, and 2) one of the goals is to reduce the spectacle of the event, as death penalty opponents would love to spread pictures of gore all over to gain support for their side. StuRat (talk) 16:31, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

They wouldn't necessarily need to bring back the public square. Just set up a guillotine in the usual chamber, where witness and photography rules stay as they are. A bit of temporary pain seems to be normal in most methods. InedibleHulk (talk) 15:35, May 2, 2014 (UTC)

Surely the deterrent effect would be increased if people were made to watch gruesome killings with a warning "This will happen to you if you murder someone". DuncanHill (talk) 16:37, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Assuming, of course, the person being gruesomely killed by the state actually committed the murder in the first place. Sometimes, they haven't. Then the lesson is "Don't look vaguely suspicious, or we'll torture you to death." Not exactly the kind of message a civilized society wants to send about its leadership. --Jayron32 16:47, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Capital punishment isn't very effective as a deterrent, because murderers tend not to be the type of people who careful weigh the pros and cons before committing a murder. However, it is effective at providing closure for the victims' families and for "removal from society". That is, once executed, the chance that the criminal will commit any more crimes is considerably reduced. With life imprisonment, there's still the possibility of parole, and even in the case of life without parole they could get out by escaping, being pardoned, a court ordering them released due to prison overcrowding, etc. And they could also continue to torment the surviving victims from prison. StuRat (talk) 15:15, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

It might deter people from supporting capital punishment if they actually saw what it was really like. And feeling a sense of satisfaction at the killing of another human being is hardly the sort of thing the state should be encouraging. DuncanHill (talk) 15:37, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

"Closure" doesn't mean satisfaction, it means not having to relive painful memories when the murderer does interviews for the press, not having to go to parole hearings and argue that he should be kept in prison, etc. In short, it means it's finally over, and the victim's families can get on with their lives. StuRat (talk) 16:00, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

And when the executed is late shewn to be innocent? How would they feel then? And telling people that someone needs to be killed for them to get on with their lives is rather repulsive. DuncanHill (talk) 18:54, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

• In this case they used only 100mg of the normal first drug, a benzodiazepine, which is not in short supply, rather than the normal 500mg. That seems more like a poor decision than a lack of the actually fatal drugs. μηδείς (talk) 17:05, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

To everyone and nobody in particular: WP:NOTFORUM WP:SOAPBOX, please. 88.112.50.121 (talk) 17:08, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

I think the OP's question has been answered. The question was "Why don't they?" and the answer is "They used to, but they have to find substitutes now." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:51, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Surely the way forwards for states who want to kill people is to put them in a 100% nitrogen chamber? This kills people reasonably quickly, but as Michael Portillo demonstrated, it has the downside of making them incredibly happy first. This method has the advantage of being an element in great abundance, unpatentable and inexpensive. --TammyMoet (talk) 08:47, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

As a practical matter, I would think that any new method would require an extensive approval process by the courts, to ensure it does not violate the "cruel and unusual" rule. If lethal injection is no longer reliable, and if the courts say it must be stopped, then other methods will have to be vetted. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:12, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Isn't the death penalty more expensive than life imprisonment?[3] Bus stop (talk) 14:59, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

That link indicates so. The question becomes, do death-penalty proponents think it's worth the extra expense? So far, apparently, the answer is "Yes". Incidents like the Oklahoma fiasco might indeed get rolled in with issues like cost, and lead to suspension or abolition. But keep in mind that the increased cost has in part to do with reasonably ensuring that the alleged perp is in fact guilty and does in fact qualify for the death penalty. And even with that, once in a great while they get it wrong. The one good thing about incarceration is that, even if it takes 20-30 years to determine that an injustice was done (see Innocence Project), the convict at least has a second chance. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:53, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

You say "The one good thing about incarceration is that, even if it takes 20-30 years to determine that an injustice was done (see Innocence Project), the convict at least has a second chance." I can think of a second good thing about incarceration. That is that the person has a value to us. Think of Timothy McVeigh. Had he not been executed he might have chosen to shed light on exactly what led up to the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City. He may have done so only after decades of imprisonment. But now there is less chance we will ever find out who else was involved and in what sorts of ways. Even his psychological motivations would be interesting to know, and they might not become clear to him before years of maturing. Bus stop (talk) 16:17, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Can we put this thread to sleep now? As the survivor of a murder victim I really don't like the continuing provocation to join in debate here. μηδείς (talk) 16:58, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

May as well. The OP's question has been fully answered. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:56, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Done. μηδείς (talk) 19:09, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Memorabilia Football Repair

I have a Bobby Bowden autographed FSU football. It has lost some of it's air and I can't get the pump needle in it to pump it up. Do you have any suggestions as to where I might be able to have it repaired? Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.242.169.110 (talk) 18:41, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Think you may need to speak with a conservation expert. If this football came into your possession with just air inflation then consider this. Air contains both oxygen and moister. Both help breakdown rubber compounds. Also it has atmospheric air on the outside attacking the bladder (or what ever Americans call the balloon thingy inside). Expensive commercial vehicle tyres (tires) are inflated with nitrogen to prolong their life -and their life is is not long.--Aspro (talk) 21:43, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Moister moisture ? :-) StuRat (talk) 15:05, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

If it was really valuable, it might be worth putting it in a sealed chamber, filled with nitrogen. If less valuable, you might just apply some oil occasionally to keep it from drying out. However, that oil might remove the signature, so be careful there. StuRat (talk) 15:08, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

May 2

Search for Logo

One of my devises has a Logo printed on it, but not the name of the manufacturer. Can somebody help me to figure out the company behind the logo? I have uploaded pictures of the logo here and here. I appreciate any help --Alosolo (talk) 18:43, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

What type of device, and how old is it? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:02, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

It is a light socket, similar to this one, but from a different manufacturer. I have no clue about the age, but probably less then 10 years old --Alosolo (talk) 19:11, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

I'm having a hard time finding anything like it. What country are you in? Maybe it's something from a smaller company in whatever country you're in and knowing which could help? Dismas|^(talk) 04:45, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

I expected it to be something like "Western Electrical", but it's definitely not the UK company by that name. Dbfirs 09:00, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

That's what I expected as well and did a number of searches around that theme to no avail. Dismas|^(talk) 14:02, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Could it be the Chinese company Wanfang Electric Factory? Their products have a model number starting with WF for Wan Fang (the logo could be a WF rather than a WE although it is hard to tell with the circle around it... or WE could stand for Wanfang Electric. --Canley (talk) 06:32, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

May 3

1960's -1970's Stronger Beer

I am trying to find out about a stronger beer distributed in NE Pennsylvania in the 1960-70 era, called Brew ll (2). I remember it but don't remember the main brewery, or the years produced. Can anyone help me with this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.58.205.60 (talk) 01:14, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

It was brewed by Horlacher Brewing Company of Allentown, Pennsylvania. The brewing company does not have an article, but the company is mentioned in the Wikipedia article on Allentown, Pennsylvania in the "American Industrial Revolution" section; the company closed in 1978. Here is a page that describes the history of the company and the Brew II beer, which according to the article had the highest ABV% then allowed by regulation for a beverage labeled "beer" and not malt liquor. --Jayron32 17:37, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Music streaming apps

Can anyone recommend some music streaming apps that give at least a two week free trial and allow you to save songs for offline listening? 69.156.170.189 (talk) 04:06, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

That would be advertising. Try a search engine such as Google.--Aspro (talk) 16:18, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

A recommendation would be fine here, although I don't have one myself. I'd avoid RealPlayer, however, as it acts like malware and runs crap in the background even when you're not using it: RealPlayer#Controversies. The Computer Desk would be the logical place for this Q. StuRat (talk) 13:55, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Do Girls Do Not Like Unfit Guys

I have mild left hemiparesis for which i have minor defect in my left hand and a bit in left leg but i kave no problem in doing regular i can even run.i dont tkink that i am bad looking.i m 30 an around 5' 4 .Will no good looking girl date me and marry me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.194.249.78 (talk) 17:19, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

We are a reference library, not a dating service or relationship counsellors. While I wish you luck, we do not answer this kind of question. Mingmingla (talk) 17:25, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

If the question was "who were some famous people who were successful with women despite physical handicaps," we could answer "Lord Byron had to walk with a cane because of his dysplasia, but plenty of women loved him (and his poetry)." Ian.thomson (talk) 17:38, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Evolution provides a couple reasons to want a fit mate:

1) So they will pass their fit genes down to their offspring. If your condition is not genetic or transmissible, you might want to tell people that. That would help to make you look like "better breeding stock". If your condition is genetic, you might want to look for mates who already have all the children they want (which might well be zero), or who want to adopt.

2) A fit person is more likely to be able to protect the family and provide resources for it. If you already have resources, like money, you might make that more apparent. Of course, just saying so is often taken badly in a social context, but there are other ways to make wealth apparent, like a nice house and car. Those resources can also provide protection for the family, like a security system. StuRat (talk) 18:26, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Actually, evolution doesn't provide those reasons. Those reasons were provided by StuRat singularly, by the method known as "pulling stuff out of his ass". --Jayron32 18:28, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Really. You think I made up the fact that animals search for fit mates so as to pass those traits down to their offspring ? Try reading some Darwin, or for that matter anything, on evolution. As for picking the mate which can provide the best resources, try reading up on bower birds. Or do you not think people are animals, guided by the same basic mating drives as other animals ? StuRat (talk) 18:31, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Again, Stu, I see no links to studies, articles, Wikipedia text, anywhere in you response. Without any reference to anything concrete that supports your statement, your ever-making-shit-up-just-for-the-hell-of-it ass is the only place I can assume you get your answers, because you never give us anywhere else that it could come from. The OP didn't ask about bower birds. They asked why they were having trouble getting a date. Which, besides being the kind of question we don't answer, you come up with an answer with no concrete links to any study, article, Wikipedia text, or really anything that resembles a reference. --Jayron32 18:52, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Sexual selection is probably the relevant article. Or Sexual selection in human evolution, if you do think we're special. Physical attractiveness may have some answers. But self-confidence can override minor flaws. Women generally don't want guys who pity themselves. It's not inspiring. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:00, May 3, 2014 (UTC)

Possibly, but that doesn't help the OP find a date. Which is still not something we can do. The fact that sexual selection exists doesn't tell us how to answer the question, and I quote "Will no good looking girl date me and marry me" I'm married and had sex at least twice (evidence by two "mini-me"s running around) and I'm a fucking troglodyte with the personality of a wet blanket and a penchant for all things nerdy. So based on a study of 1, people who are not supermodel good looking with fascinating personalities have, in at least one instance, found someone to touch their genitals willingly. That still doesn't mean that StuRat provided a single reference to a reliable source or Wikipedia article in his response. Thank you, Hulk, for covering for him and at least doing the right thing in doing the mission of this desk, by at least linking to articles the OP could read, no matter how tenuously connected to the actual question. It would be nice if StuRat did this at some rate approaching 1% of the time. --Jayron32 19:13, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

The self confidence link was the (slightly) helpful one. There was obviously something about your nerdy, wet-blanket troglodyte self that convinced your wife to further your line. If the OP is self-conscious about his hand and leg, doubt will come through in his voice and face. Even if women don't consciously realize what's going on, they'll pick up on it. But if he's thinking about his positive aspects, the certainty will exude. That positive aspect doesn't even have to be one that women want; as long as you're proud of it, that pride itself is the sexy thing. Bragging about the positive aspect directly can be off-putting, but the general air of "I'm worth your time" is a good thing. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:45, May 3, 2014 (UTC)

I'm here to provide answers to the OP, not to provide Jayron with the most basic lessons in biology, which he should have learned long ago. If he is really that deficient in his education, and can't answer without obscenity, then he should avoid responding here. Incidentally, I responded to the question in the title, which is the only one we can respond to. StuRat (talk) 20:08, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

While I didn't have the same strong negative reaction Jayron did to the answer, it's misleading to say that this is just basic biology. This application of Darwin's ideas to specific examples of social interaction (e.g. telling someone a condition is not genetic/transmissible, finding people with existing children, or anything related to courtship, attraction, partnership, etc.) or to draw rules about social behavior in a particular cultural context in a particular point in history is not the same as basic biological evolution. It's the appropriation of evolutionary ideas to other fields (a methodological choice with quite varied results). Sex and the concept of sexual selection may have an evolutionary basis, but humans are pervasively social animals, and our tastes, priorities, and values (including all those that apply to mate selection) are in very large part products of social/cultural/historical context. For that reason, these kinds of generalizations to answer a quite sensitive question and saying it's scientific is dangerous business. I would furthermore add that because we're talking about an animal (humans) with unusual frontal lobe capacities, it is the case that we are not, as a rule, subject to the same forces of instinct as other animals, quite often overriding instincts for various reasons (although I suppose there's a closed system reductionist argument that could be made). Anyway, I didn't see anything quite so egregious in the original message -- I just don't like seeing science misappropriated :)

Also, as an aside, bowerbirds don't mate based on resources. The bower is just a place for the male to show off. The female chooses a bower, mates with the male, then flies somewhere else and builds a nest. She doesn't benefit from the bower. --— Rhododendrites ^talk |  16:03, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Male bower birds show off resources they've gathered in their bower, although those aren't used directly by the female, they do demonstrate the fitness of the male. As for my evolutionary answer, you must admit that evolution plays a major role in mate selection. If you look at the portion of people who prefer obviously unfit mates, that's going to be far lower than fit mates. Yes, there are also cultural differences in mate selection, like preferring fat or thin mates, and I'd be happy to see responses along that line, too (I'd also argue for an evolutionary underpinning for the cultural differences, like fat being the ideal where starvation is endemic). I would not attack them for taking another tack in their response. Indeed, seeing response from many different perspectives is helpful, not "dangerous". StuRat (talk) 16:26, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

I'm no mathematician but I would say that with all the people in the world, there is a big chance that there is someone out there for everyone. For instance, there is a couple in the news locally here who are accused of killing a local teacher for the experience of killing someone and for "sex stuff" (their words, as far as I recall). As twisted as they are, they still found each other. So, now we've had some biology and some maths. Now where is Medeis to hat this topic? Dismas|^(talk) 20:17, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Fuck you dismas. That was gratuitous, insulting to the desk, the project, the OP, and just about par for you recently. μηδείς (talk) 06:28, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

---

• The OP should seek out hemiparesis support groups. I can think of two very charismatic characters on recent TV shows, Deadwood (TV series) and Breaking Bad with similar characters I would think could easily find partners. Keep in mind also men with scars and amputations are often found very attractive, although the situation is not identical. Women who see something valuable in you and know you are unlikely to pass on the condition will often ovelook a matter of looks--and looks cease to become important about a month into a relationship from my experience. Seek out peer and professional advice, and best of luck. μηδείς (talk) 06:28, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

My Left Foot is a semi-documentary story about a guy who never expected to find love because of his disability, and who ended up getting married. There are many more stories like that. HiLo48 (talk) 06:39, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

May 4

Epispadias

I am suffering from Epispadias and incontinence of urine.I want to know if there org. looking after this type of disability.10:31, 4 May 2014 (UTC)10:31, 4 May 2014 (UTC)~~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Souja 25 (talk • contribs)

Have you tried approaching Hypospadias and Epispadias Association?

Please note that Wikipedia cannot give advice of a medical nature, for that see your physcisian or specialist. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 11:21, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

The link above is faulty for me, try Hypospadias and Epispadias Association Richard Avery (talk) 15:34, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Are there any Alcoholic beverages that aren't beers, wines, or liquors?

I'm not really talking about things like mouthwash or vanilla extract...just human drinks. Something that could go under the Potent Potables category. 98.176.56.95 (talk) 17:48, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

How about fermented milk drinks like airag, kumiss, kefir? Rmhermen (talk) 18:02, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Mead would qualify, as would cider. Category:Fermented beverages is a good starting point to find more. --WegianWarrior (talk)

(ec x 2) Surely it depends entirely on your definitions of these words. Is barley wine a beer, a wine, or something different? How about cider (which in the UK always means an alcoholic drink)? And "liquors" is not a term which has a precise meaning to me: maybe it does to you. I would talk about "spirits" and "liqueurs", but I am not clear whether the latter is a subset of the former or a separate category. --ColinFine (talk) 18:08, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

To me liquors doesn't have a precise meaning, but definitely the most usual sense for the word is "distilled spirits". On the other hand, there's malt liquor, so.... --Trovatore (talk) 20:09, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Bitters are made from herbs and distilled alcohol, but the bitters are not themselves distilled. Again, I also don't know how you're defining "liquor"... OttawaAC (talk) 01:37, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Sake is sort of wine and sort of beer, but sort of not. InedibleHulk (talk) 18:10, May 4, 2014 (UTC)

Kava isn't alcoholic but acts in similar ways. It's more your anaesthetic beverage. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 20:00, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Sure beats bong water. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:19, May 4, 2014 (UTC)

Never tried it. (The water, that is.) -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 00:37, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Startup's paid up capital

As far as I understand, paid up capital is the money that the founders bring in. So, what happens to this money? Is it kept away in the bank? Or, can they spend it for the company? If, they are not allowed to spend this amount, what is the use of having a paid up capital? How long is the money off-limits? If and when they are allowed to spend it, what can they do with the money? Can they use it to buy furniture and other stuff? Or to pay employees?

Sorry about the rambling. I just find it very interesting. Thanks in advance for the replies. 223.223.159.193 (talk) 18:13, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

See share capital and paid in capital (though they are only short articles). The purpose of the money is (initially) to start up the business, so it can be used for any legitimate business costs. There might be restrictions in some jurisdictions, but not usually. Dbfirs 20:46, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Right. It wouldn't make any sense at all to give a startup business money that it couldn't use. If there are restrictions on how the money can be used, they will be stated in the contract between the business founders and the investors. In many cases the investors get a share of ownership in the company, and therefore have the right to participate in managing it. Looie496 (talk) 14:23, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

May 5

Is there a place online that scans a picture/pdf of words and then outputs the text as copy-pasteable text?

Does this request make sense? If I have a large photograph containing a bunch of words, and I'd like to get those words in some sort of editable format, is there a site that will read the photograph (or, if I have to, convert to pdf) and output the text in highlightable format?

Let me know if I need to rephrase the question. 98.176.56.95 (talk) 01:56, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

That's called optical character recognition. Unfortunately, even figuring out which spots contain letters isn't so easy, so a human is probably needed to tell the software things like that. You can also get your own OCR software, of course. Many scanners come with such software. StuRat (talk) 02:03, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

I was just wondering yesterday about something like that for Google Street View. I'm always running into stuff I can't translate because I can't find the keys. I hope the answer to your question is yes, but I don't know. I used to use a scanner at work that did it for English, but it sort of sucked at accuracy. That was early 2000s, though. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:06, May 5, 2014 (UTC)

Here are a couple of options. Hopefully one of them works for you. --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 02:15, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Looks promising. Thanks! InedibleHulk (talk) 02:18, May 5, 2014 (UTC)

JUst be aware that however you do this you'll need to proofread the text carefully if proper orthography matters. I've been using this technology since the early nineties and it still requires a human eye to ferret out obvious mistakes. μηδείς (talk) 02:36, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

I've tried out some online tools and some downloaded tools and the best one I've found so far is ABBY Online. I think my images were pretty complicated, with non-English characters typed in a table-like format with lines between the cells, but it still managed to interpret and format most of the text correctly. Sjö (talk) 14:06, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

That requires a user ID, and it also threw a bunch of advertising links. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:14, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Early history and prehistory

For a long time the supposed date of Christ's birth has been the datum point for the enumeration of the passage of the years. What was the datum point used by the ancient egyptians? Similarly what datum was used by other ancient peoples?Wgc1931 (talk) 10:05, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

For the ancient Egyptians, see Egyptian calendar. For a number of others, there is the handy Template:Calendars. Dismas|^(talk) 10:16, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

For the majority of early chronicles, years are enumerated simply as regnal years (in the nth year of King XYZ). Hence, differing chronologies for Mesopotamia and Egypt depending on which records you believe and how you stitch them together. The conflicting chronologies of Kings and Chronicles are a prime example. Fiddlersmouth (talk) 11:15, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Even the chronologies of the kings of Israel and Judah in the book of Kings aren't quite in harmony. Ancient chronologies were confused by the different calendars used by different cultures. The pre-Julian Roman calendar had a ten-month year, adjusted from time to time by the insertion of intercalary months, but even so the calendar ended up out of sync with the seasons. The Jewish calendar had similar problems. --Nicknack009 (talk) 20:35, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Astronomical events (comets, eclipses, supernovae, etc.) mentioned in ancient chronicles are one of the main tools used to synchronize ancient chronologies with our own. Marco polo (talk) 19:32, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

A well known one is the Roman era, in which years were designated e.g. "349 AUC", standing for "Ab Urbe condita", from the founding of Rome, which according to their reckoning occurred in 753 BC (or 1 AUC). This epithet was not used very much by the Romans themselves, but more by later historians. This year 2014 AD is 2767 AUC. Other interesting versions of 2014 are shown in the "2014 in other calendars" box at 2014. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:50, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Adding birth date to a Wikipedia article

Hi, not a great wikipedia user, how can I add a birthday to a page please? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katie_Larmour dob: 10.8.85 Many thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Friendlyedits (talk • contribs) 13:48, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

You need a reliable, published source for that date. Can you tell us where you found that date? --Jayron32 14:29, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

1) The Wikipedia:Help desk would be the place to ask such a Q.

2) You seem to have added it successfully, although a source would be nice. If you mean you want to add one of those biography boxes on the right side, I wouldn't attempt that, since you'd need a lot more info to fill that out.

3) I added a title to this Q. StuRat (talk) 14:31, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

May 6

Payment Security Mechanism in power sector

Hi, I would like to know what kind of payment security mechanism that can be built in the agreement between the generating utilities, distribution companies, state government etc. (especially in countries where power sector market has not been completely deregulated), to ensure that generating companies can receive full payment from the state distribution companies. One example would be that of tripartite agreement between central utilities, RBI and state government. Can you share some other nation experiences with this regard?

Thanks Rashmi Ranjan Sethi — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rashmis12 (talk • contribs) 03:54, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Alliteration

Is there a precise definition of what counts and what doesn't count as alliteration? Also, is there a Guinness record for a poem containing the highest number of alliterations, and if so, who holds it at this time? (For an epic poem, I'd expect it to be Pushkin with his poem about the Battle of Poltava, while for a short poem, I think it would probably be Robert Service with something like "The Man from Athabasca", although I might have a fair shot with my C&W song "The Plane that Never Returned"; but I'd welcome a correction on both counts if my stats are incorrect.) 24.5.122.13 (talk) 05:15, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

This fine feathered fellow wrote 100 alliterative blog titles in a row. That's...something. All that RecordSetter.com has. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:54, May 6, 2014 (UTC)

I would never accept "Eyecolor Is Important" as an alliterative sentence, and can't imagine any definition that would. The opening syllables share neither the same sound nor the same letter, except for the latter two. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 06:16, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

I tend to agree, Jack, but it's worth noting that in Old English poetry, in which alliteration is used as a structural principle, any initial vowel sound alliterates with any other. In the second line of the poem about me, for instance—"anhýdig eorl, earfoþa dréag"—anhýdig, eorl, and earfoþa alliterate. Deor (talk) 14:45, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, Deor. It seems that at least one of the principles of Old English poetry has gone the way of, er, Old English. The only saving grace is that the word-element "eye" is pronounced the same as the letter "i", which commences the other words. But so what! (so it's not a saving grace after all). This is like suggesting that "You Utterly Useless Urchins" is alliterative simply because the letter "u" is spoken the same way as the word "you". -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:30, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

See "Lion-Eating Poet in the Stone Den".—Wavelength (talk) 15:00, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

See http://www.onelook.com/?w=alliteration&ls=a.

—Wavelength (talk) 17:01, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, everyone! What I wanted to ask about are 4 specific matters related to alliterations: (1) How close do the alliterated words have to be in a poem in order to count as an alliteration -- do they have to be in the same line ("So I brag of bear and beaver while the batteries are roaring"), or can they be in adjacent lines ("Oh the wife she tried to tell me it was nothing but the thrumming / Of woodpecker a-rapping on a hollow willow tree"), or can they be anywhere within the same verse? (2) If the words start with the same letter but not the same sound ("And she thought that I was fooling when I said it was the drumming / Of mustering of legions that was calling unto me"), or with the same sound but not the same letter ("And they listen to my stories, seven poilu in a row / Seven lean and lousy poilu with their cigarettes aglow"), does that still count as an alliteration? (3) If there are n>2 words alliterated with the same starting letter or sound (see the first example -- there's more on the next line about the fellows on the firing step a-blazing at the foe), does that count as n-1 alliterations, or as only 1? (4) Is there an official world record for the number of alliterations, and if so, who holds it? 24.5.122.13 (talk) 06:02, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure where this clothing belongs to

Here is the picture: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fairy-Tail-Natsu-Dragneel-Cosplay-Costume-/221085622975

I've seen design like that before, but I'm not sure where it belongs to. The closest thing is sleeveless shirt, but this doesn't look like it.

So, what is this? 118.137.229.230 (talk) 09:19, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

For the top, two things come to mind: bolero, or jerkin. Or maybe an edge-to-edge waistcoat. Not sure about the skirt. --TammyMoet (talk) 09:33, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

The garment worn by Aladdin.
Sleigh (talk) 10:20, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

See http://fairytail.wikia.com/wiki/Natsu_Dragneel, which describes the costume under "Appearance". (This is Japanese anime stuff, which is a world of its own.) Looie496 (talk) 14:14, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Both the FT wiki link and first poster say that this belongs to a waistcoat, so its resolved? But waistcoat says that this is commonly worn over another clothing, so this thing belongs to the uncommon variation??? 118.137.229.230 (talk) 11:17, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Waistcoats can be worn on their own, and it's not uncommon so I wouldn't worry. --TammyMoet (talk) 12:33, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Proof: http://www.dreamstime.com/stock-image-young-handsome-male-waistcoat-image22445491 And could you please point me to your source that this is not uncommon? Now this is 100% resolved, how do I put the resolved sign? 118.137.229.230 (talk) 14:25, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Serious plans of renovation

Are there any serious plans to renovate the Stockwell Garage? 112.198.90.135 (talk) 13:54, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

The on-line database of English Heritage (the UK government's statutory advisor on the historic environment) shows Stockwell Bus Garage as a Grade II* Listed building defined as "particularly important buildings of more than special interest". It may not be demolished, extended, or altered without special permission from the local planning authority. As recently as 2013 the 1950s structure was celebrated in a photographic exhibition and even nominated as London's most important building. 84.209.89.214 (talk) 15:03, 6 May 2014 (UTC)