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    Welcome to the dispute resolution noticeboard (DRN)
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    This is an informal place to resolve small content disputes as part of dispute resolution. It may also be used as a tool to direct certain discussions to more appropriate forums, such as requests for comment, or other noticeboards. You can ask a question on the talk page. This is an early stop for most disputes on Wikipedia. You are not required to participate, however, the case filer must participate in all aspects of the dispute or the matter will be considered failed. Any editor may volunteer! Click this button to add your name! You don't need to volunteer to help. Please feel free to comment below on any case. Be civil and remember; Maintain Wikipedia policy: it is usually a misuse of a talk page to continue to argue any point that has not met policy requirements. Editors must take particular care adding information about living persons to any Wikipedia page. This may also apply to some groups.

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    Current disputes

    Vurg

    – Discussion in progress.

    Have you discussed this on a talk page?

    Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

    Location of dispute

    Users involved

    Dispute overview

    One user i adding personal information about an individual deeds and achievments into an article about a region. The other (me) is commenting that only the information about the region should be in the article about the region not personal information about the individual doings. Is a dispute which at the moment 4 different users have commented so after posting it at Wikipedia:Third opinion an admin redirected us here.

    How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?

    Talk:Vurg#Lefter Talo, Talk:Vurg#Lefter_Talo

    How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?

    We are discussing what belongs and doesnt belong to an article about a region. So since different users claim different opinions we need an experienced and neutral user to show us what belongs to resolve this dispute.

    Summary of dispute by Khirurg

    Lefter Talo was an ethnic Greek individual born in the Vurg region of Albania who was active in the communist resistance during WW2 and his place of birth is now named after him. Sources describing this have been added in the article. The only reason there even is a dispute is because RoyalHeritageAlbania is extremely bothered by the mention of Talo's Greek ethnicity, and really really doesn't want it in the article. He won't say so openly, but reading between the lines in this talkpage thread [1] and looking at his edit summaries [2], it's pretty clear what he means when he says Informations about Lefter Talo dont belong here. This despite the fact that the sources in the articles mention his ethnicity (e.g. Kofos 1973). Khirurg (talk) 20:38, 19 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    Summary of dispute by RoyalHeritageAlb

    I wanted to bring up a concern regarding the content in this Wikipedia article about the region where this notable person was born. I noticed that some editors have added information about the person's personal information & achievements and deeds to this article. However, I believe that this information should be included in the person's own personal article, rather than in the article about the region. While it is important to acknowledge the person's connection to the region, it is not necessary to include every detail of their personal life in the article. Doing so could detract from the main focus of the article, which is the region itself. Additionally, the personal achievements and deeds of the person are more appropriate for their own personal article, where they can be more thoroughly and accurately discussed. RoyalHeritageAlb (talk) 20:47, 19 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    Summary of dispute by Alexikoua

    Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

    Summary of dispute by AlexBachmann

    Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

    Vurg discussion

    Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.

    Yes, I am writing to report an issue with the Vurg. I noticed that information about a notable person's (Lefter Talo) personal achievements and background ethnicity has been included in an article about the region where he was born. I believe that this information should not be included in that article and should be mentioned to the resistance leader's personal article instead.

    Furthermore, EVEN IF, some information about the individual could be included, I think that there are more important factors than details about his early life just as the ethnic background. However,i think these factors as well should remain on the individual's respective article, not on the region's article. A reader interested about Lefter Talo the individual should read about him on his respective article and only informations directly linked to the region should be in the article. The resistance leader should have his own page and be mentioned as a notable person in the region. But informations ABOUT him i dont think that belongs here. Thank you! RoyalHeritageAlb (talk) 15:44, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    First statement by moderator (Vurg)

    I am ready to mediate this dispute. Please read the ground rules and agree that you will follow the rules. This is a contentious topic because it involves nationalities in Eastern Europe. Do not engage in back-and-forth discussion. Address your comments to the moderator and the community. Be civil and concise.

    It appears that one matter of dispute is whether to include material about a particular guerilla leader. Is that correct? Are there any other issues? Robert McClenon (talk) 15:04, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    Second statement by moderator (Vurg)

    It appears that the issue is how much the Vurg article should say about Lefter Talo. The argument for minimizing what is said about him is that anything other than a passing mention of him is off topic. It appears that there is an article about a village that is named for him, but that there isn't a biographical article about Lefter Talo, the guerilla. I am asking each editor to state, concisely, their opinion on what the Vurg article should say, and their opinion about what should be said about Lefter Talo, and in what article it should be said. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:16, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    Second statements by editors (Vurg)

    My proposal is that we should only mention him as a notable figure (the name) then to create an article about Lefter Talo the individual (i have also proposed to move the Village's article [Lefter Talo] into "Lefter Talo (Village)" on the tp here [3] to avoid confusion but no other editor has replied). Then to link that specific article to the Vurg page and anyone who is interested to read about his personal information such as the background and deeds in this case can simply click there. (I am absolutely not trying to erase the well known infomation just like the ethnic background which the other user claims that i am trying to do.) RoyalHeritageAlb (talk) 00:09, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    Even if there was a separate article for the actual Lefter Talo person, there is still not a valid reason from hiding his ethnicity from readers of the vurg article, who might not read the Lefter Talo article. There is no question that hiding this information is the other party's main goal [4] [5]. All this time wasted, walls and and walls of text (and who knows how much more), just for that. Khirurg (talk) 01:47, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    You mention all this "time wasted" but you forget that the user Alexikoua was the one who added these informations Special:MobileDiff/1149363047 and while i was saying to refer to the talk page for discussing this matter Special:MobileDiff/1149375870 we both were on our 3 revert. So you stepped in to do the revert for Alexikoua probably even to bait me reverting you again and getting blocked. So if you were ready to "win" an argument based on the number of reverts and "allies" i am ready to take whatever official rules/steps wikipedia requires to solve this dispute. So stop mentioning this "time wasted". And dont make this personal. I dont have a problem for an albanian "hero of the people" to have greek ethnic background. There are hundreds of Greek National Heroes who have Albanian/Arvanitic Background. So lets stay serious and discuss your arguments as per "Why it should/n't be here" do not discuss my intentions since we are supposed to "Comment on content, not contributors". Any detail of the individual should be part of his personal article not at Vurg. RoyalHeritageAlb (talk) 09:08, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    Third statement by moderator (Vurg)

    Discuss edits, not editors. Is there any issue about the Vurg article other than what it should say about Lefter Talo? If he is biographically notable, we should have a biographical article about him. If he is not notable, why should we mention him in the article? Will each editor please state, briefly, what information they think should be in the Vurg article about Lefter Talo, and why there should or should not be an article on Lefter Talo? Robert McClenon (talk) 16:45, 29 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    It appears that there is an article on the village named Lefter Talo. Naming a village for him seems to be evidence of his biographical notability. If two articles, for the man and the village, are in order, they can be disambiguated, with hatnotes to each other. Please comment. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:50, 29 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    Third statements by editors (Vurg)

    I think Lefter Talo is notable enough to have its own respective article. And should be mentioned as a notable person from the area. But informations ABOUT him either important like deeds or achievements either personal details just like the background and mother language religion etc should NOT be mentioned in the Vurg article but on the personal article which will be created about him. Lets keep Vurg only about the region. RoyalHeritageAlb (talk) 19:03, 29 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    Fourth statement by moderator (Vurg)

    Is there agreement that Lefter Talo, a World War Two Resistance leader, is biographically notable and should be the subject of a biographical article? If so, is there agreement that the article on the region should only have a passing mention, linked to the biography? Robert McClenon (talk) 01:07, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    Fourth statements by editors (Vurg)

    Even if there is a separate article for the individual, I don't see why cirtually nothing about him should be mentioned in the region he was from. It just seems a very strange and strict requirement. Khirurg (talk) 02:56, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    Even if there would be anything to mention about the individual, would be the exact role that made the individual notable. Surely way more important than background information such as mother language ethnicity or religion. But still. Everything about him should be mentioned in his respective article not at Vurg. He was well known enough to have the name mentioned as a notable person but informations ABOUT him dont belong to an article about the region where he was born. Its like writing personal informations about Eminem on the Missouri article. This isnt even the article about Lefter Talo the village (which still should be limited to informations about the village itself not the namesake). Its an article about the whole region. RoyalHeritageAlb (talk) 00:17, 3 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    Péter Eckstein-Kovács

    – Discussion in progress.

    Have you discussed this on a talk page?

    Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

    Location of dispute

    Users involved

    Dispute overview

    In the lead section of the article, do we mention the subject’s ethnicity, or do we wait until the first words of the body (one paragraph later) to do that?

    How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?

    Talk:Péter Eckstein-Kovács

    How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?

    Please offer an opinion in line with the guideline.

    Summary of dispute by Gyalu22

    The MOS:ETHNICITY guideline (second example description) instructs the mentioning of the person's ethnicity in the second sentence of the lead. Biruitorul and Aristeus01 reverted the change and hold that Eckstein-Kovács's ethnicity should be completely omitted from the lead despite he, for most of his career was part of an exclusively Hungarian party in Romania that aims to represent the minority's interests. They refused to react to my reason for changing during the whole talk page discussion. Gyalu22 (talk) 15:02, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    Summary of dispute by Aristeus01

    I think the conversation on the talk page says it all. Although consensus was reached, gyalu22 continues to disagree. Another opinion would be more than welcomed.--Aristeus01 (talk) 18:34, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    Péter Eckstein-Kovács discussion

    Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.
    Done. Biruitorul Talk 14:33, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    Zeroth statement by moderator (Eckstein-Kovacs)

    I am ready to act as the moderator. The editors should read the ground rules and indicate whether they want moderated discussion. Is the only question whether his ethnicity should be mentioned in the lede sentence? The hatnote states that the native form of his name is family name followed by given name, which is Hungarian usage. Is that in itself a reason why his ethnicity should be mentioned? Robert McClenon (talk) 15:06, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    Zeroth statements by editors (Eckstein-Kovacs)

    Hi @Robert McClenon and thank you for joining.

    I agree with moderated discussion.

    The disagreement is only centred around the lead section. To my understanding the reason invoked for mentioning the ethnicity does not relate to name order but to the relevance of his ethnicity in his political career, plainly speaking being Hungarian he joined UDMR, a political party for Hungarian minority. My reasoning is that the reason for joining a political party or another is not a notable achievement for Wikipedia. --Aristeus01 (talk) 16:12, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    I too agree with moderation; thank you for your willingness to help. The dispute does not have to do with the hatnote. Rather, it revolves around whether the lead section (above “Biography”) should mention his ethnicity. Aristeus01 and I argue that the answer is no. This view is grounded in MOS:ETHNICITY and in the fact that all similar articles — biographies of politicians who belong to ethnic-minority parties — follow the same principle: mention citizenship and party in the lead, ethnicity in the body. — Biruitorul Talk 17:19, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    I expressed doubts about the correctness of taking this dispute to noticeboard reading the informal, but if Robert McClenon doesn't hesitate starting the dispute resolution, I only thank his help in it.

    Following the guideline cited above by Biruitorul, it's needless to add the ethnicity of the person if it isn't relevant to his career, so this isn't only about that. In the case of Eckstein-Kovács, ethnicity does define importance. He spent most of his political career as a prominent member of an exclusively Hungarian party in Romania that aims to represent the minority's interests. The guideline puts its directions regarding this situation as "the second example is someone who emigrated as a child and continued to identify as a citizen of their adopted country (...) we do not add ethnicity ("Jewish-American") or country of birth ("Russian-born American"). These details can be introduced in the second sentence if they are of defining importance." Gyalu22 (talk) 14:41, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    So in the case of Péter Eckstein-Kovács ethnicity is of defining importance for joining city council, or for becoming a deputy? Aristeus01 (talk) 18:53, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I repeat than: he spent most of his political career as a prominent member of an exclusively Hungarian party in Romania that aims to represent the minority's interests.
    Are we allowed to do these side-discourses here? It was the talk page where you should've looked to engage in a non-moderated argument. Gyalu22 (talk) 19:56, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    ”Exclusively Hungarian” is factually incorrect; they’ve had ethnic Romanian candidates in the past. — Biruitorul Talk 04:47, 28 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    First statement by moderator (Eckstein-Kovacs)

    Please read the rules again. Back-and-forth discussion should be in the space reserved for the purpose. Is the only issue whether to list his ethnicity (Hungarian) in the lede paragraph? Two reasons have been mentioned why his ethnicity is significant, the first being his involvement in a political party for the Hungarian minority in Romania, and the second being that the native form of his name, which is noted in the hatnote, is a Hungarian name. What are the reasons for not identifying his ethnicity "up front"? Are there any other issues? Robert McClenon (talk) 17:00, 29 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    First statements by editors (Eckstein-Kovacs)

    • To begin with, the hatnote is not controversial. The article’s subject is ethnic Hungarian (nobody disputes that), and it’s normal to place it there.
    • Moving on: MOS:ETHNICITY states that “in most modern-day cases”, we put citizenship in the lead, and that ethnicity “should generally not be in the lead”. Yes, exceptions can be made, but there really isn’t a compelling case here. We mention his party in the lead (complete with the word “Hungarian” in it, so it would sort of be overkill to hammer that theme twice in the same sentence), we mention his ethnicity right off the bat in the body of the article.
    • Is his ethnicity relevant to his notability? To some extent that’s subjective, but I think not, simply because his notability rests on the fact that he was a member of parliament. Yes, he happened to be elected for a largely ethnic Hungarian party, but he’s notable because he was in parliament, not because he’s ethnically Hungarian. — Biruitorul Talk 20:57, 29 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    Péter Eckstein-Kovács notability comes mostly from his work, as a politician, around minority rights. While not entirely said in the article, he spoke and acted against antisemitism, discrimination of Rroma (Romani) people, and the scarcity of rights for LGBT community. He also resigned from UDMR in 2018 citing discontent with the conservative line followed by the party. Hence, his notability is for defending human rights and minority rights in general, and not specifically Hungarian minority rights, even less so Hungarian minority political representation in Romania (since he resigned from the party). Since notability is the root for MOS:Ethnicity and his activity is beyond Hungarian minority rights, acting (officially and unofficially) on behalf of Romania, his ethnicity expressly added in the lead does not ”link”.--Aristeus01 (talk) 11:40, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]


    Second statement by moderator (Eckstein-Kovacs)

    It appears that the only issue is the lede sentence. If there are any other issues, please identify them. I am asking each editor to propose what they think should be the lede sentence. Just propose the lede sentence. If you want to state why that is your preference, you may do so in the space for back-and-forth discussion. After that, I will ask each editor whether they will accept any of the other proposed lede sentences. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:01, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    Second statements by editors (Eckstein-Kovacs)

    Péter Eckstein-Kovács (born July 5, 1956) is a Romanian lawyer and a liberal politician. Between February 1999-November 2000 he was the Minister of Minority Affairs in Romania, and between January 2009 and September 2011 he was the President's Advisor on Minority Affairs, a position he resigned from in disagreement with the presidential stand on Roșia Montană Project.

    He was a member of the Romanian Chamber of Deputies for Cluj County from 1990 to 1992, a member of the Cluj-Napoca city council from 1992 to 1996, and, as a member of the Romanian Senate between 2004-2008, he was the chairman of its Committee on Legal, Disciplinary, Immune, Justifying and European Affairs.

    A former member of the Democratic Alliance of Hungarians in Romania (UDMR), he resigned in 2018 citing disagreement with the party's policy on legal issues. --Aristeus01 (talk) 10:36, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    Péter Eckstein-Kovács (born July 5, 1956) is a Romanian lawyer and politician. Of Hungarian ethnicity, he was formerly a member of the Democratic Alliance of Hungarians in Romania (UDMR). He was also a member of the Romanian Chamber of Deputies for Cluj County from 1990 to 1992 and a member of the Cluj-Napoca city council from 1992 to 1996. That year, he was elected to the Romanian Senate, where he served until 2008, except for a stint as Minister-Delegate for National Minorities in the Radu Vasile cabinet (1999) and a break until he was elected again in November 2000.

    He and his wife have three children.<ref>Gyalu22 (talk) 13:16, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    Back-and-forth discussion (Eckstein-Kovacs)

    At the moment, I don't wish to add anything to the above section because I already told my reasons. Instead, I would answer the doubts raised there. So MOS:ETHNICTY says this, quoted (though only partly) by Biruitorul too: "Ethnicity, religion, or sexuality should generally not be in the lead unless relevant to the subject's notability." First, I admit that my statement that the UDMR is an "exclusively Hungarian party" is factually incorrect, Biruitorul proved that they did propose Romanian representatives in counties outside Transylvania in the past. Still, nearly all of its members are Hungarians and the party's declared objective is to validate the interests of Hungarians. Eckstein-Kovács was a prominent member of this party for most of his political career, running for president in 2011 and finishing second in the election. For me, it is clear that his ethnicity is key to his career. (He wouldn't have been in the parliament from a Hungarian party without him being Hungarian.) Yes, the lead already mentions that he was formerly a member of the UDMR, but as I said on the talk page, the lead should provide concrete information about the person, not clues. According to the related guideline, his ethnicity should be mentioned and this doesn't change on it.

    I didn't find anything that verifies Aristeus01's claims, but even if we assume that they are completely true, his conclusion is still incorrect. Just because Aristeus01 doesn't mention Eckstein-Kovács's actions in defending Hungarian minority rights, that doesn't mean that there weren't far more instances for that than for he defending other minority's rights. Defending the rights of other minorities is in connection with defending the rights of one specific minority anyways. Gyalu22 (talk) 13:35, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    The information about defending minority rights is partly included in the article. If other acts, specifically in favour of Hungarian minority, made him notable I think we should mention them. From my understanding he was a founding member of UDMR, and he came second in the elections for party presidency in 2011. Other than that I could not find anything notable in relation to Hungarian minority rights.
    If however we find his ethnicity worth mentioning I insist we say "of Hungarian and Jewish descent" since his father was half-Jewish and provides context. Please see here. Aristeus01 (talk) 16:29, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    It's not easy to find actions taken by him alone and not by the party. I read some specific actions, like advocating for the increased funding of Hungarian-language schools like the Sapientia University.
    I read the article you linked and I have to rely on its content but I would note that it's visibly very subjective. I would also note - regarding his descent - that in Jewish traditions, ethnicity originates from the mother and religion is very important. His father wasn't religious. My points I explained support mentioning his Hungarian ethnicity and don't give any reason for mentioning that he has some Jewish ancestry. Gyalu22 (talk) 18:25, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Hi @Gyalu22 Should we really leave out the part with him being advisor to the President? To me it seems like it's his most important part of his career(so far). Aristeus01 (talk) 17:40, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I think "President's Advisor on Minority Affairs" is not the name of the office in the Romanian government. I guess it's the same as Presidential Adviser (from the) Department of Culture, Religion and National Minorities.[6] But I also think it's notable. I just didn't make a big change in my proposal because this conversation is about the ethnicity thing. No one raised a problem about the layout of the introduction.
    Nevertheless I don't support chopping the first paragraph to three like that and relocating his role in the UDMR which is very important. The part fitting in the navigation popup should contain the most important information with no precise dates or explanations. Those can be discussed later in the lead or in the article's main body. Gyalu22 (talk) 18:33, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    Dhaka

    – General close. See comments for reasoning.
    Closed discussion
    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Have you discussed this on a talk page?

    Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

    Location of dispute

    Users involved

    Dispute overview

    I edited the Dhaka article to add content about partition-related history (in particular the partition-induced demographic shifts in the city), using three scholarly sources. An editor seems adamant that these will not be added to the page, and keeps reverting every edit related to it that I make to the article (1 2 3). Despite multiple requests for sources on the talk page to demonstrate why the content doesn’t belong in the article, the editor hasn’t really come up with any sources. My sources, to which I’ve added another (non-scholarly) one, are available here.

    How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?

    Talk:Dhaka#Undue_content_in_the_lead

    How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?

    At the very least a solid reason for why scholarly-cited additions to the article do not belong there.

    Summary of dispute by A.Musketeer

    Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

    Summary of dispute by Solomon The Magnifico

    Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

    Dhaka discussion

    Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.
    Apologies, I had been busy elsewhere. Done now. UnpetitproleX (talk) 14:37, 29 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Purdue University Global

    – New discussion.

    Have you discussed this on a talk page?

    Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

    Location of dispute

    Users involved

    Dispute overview

    I believe the lead in this article includes information that is inaccurate. I also believe it gives disproportionate attention to parts of the article than would be helpful to readers. I have been working to address this for about a month through the talk page, compromise and incremental editing but one particular editor has continued to revert my edits. (In full disclosure, we probably got off on the wrong foot because I engaged in some of the same behaviors initially). Specifically, the article claims that 12.5% of Purdue Global's revenue goes to Kaplan. I have shown through citations that that only occurs in certain financial situations. I also think this is a minor point that doesn't belong in the second sentence. Moreover, Purdue Global has existed for five years and is a significantly different school than when it was a for-profit university called Kaplan. It now is a public university managed by Purdue University. That history deserves to be in the intro, but at some point it should drop lower in the lead than the first sentence. Other editors have agreed with me but the change keeps getting reverted. This matters because some people who do not like online university, have an impartial view and want to try to paint it as still being in the control of Kaplan. Both viewpoints should be in the article, but I believe the aggressive protection of the lead may be due to NPOV editing.

    How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Purdue_University_Global#justification_for_the_continued_inclusion_lead_and_facts

    How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?

    I would like to get some additional editors involved to provide feedback and who can help us find the right edits to tighten the lead.

    Purdue University Global discussion

    Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.
    Apologies, This has been corrected. Any advice or assistance in breaking the stalemate is appreciated. Neither of us are expert editors, so some expertise would be appreciated it. JA1776 (talk) 19:32, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I have continued to try out different edits in an effort to find consensus but the changes continue to be reverted. I am not an expert editor and stand willing to receive correction if that's warranted but unlike with past disputes I've had on Wikipedia, this particular editor prefers to revert my changes rather than edit them and that makes it impossible to find consensus. If this is a case worthy of your time, I would appreciate the guidance and assistance finding a resolution. JA1776 (talk) 18:58, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    Zeroth statement by moderator (Purdue)

    I will try to mediate this dispute if User:Ushistorygeek agrees to moderated discussion. Please read the usual rules. Do not edit the article in question while moderated discussion is in progress.

    However, User:Ushistorygeek has been notified of this filing, and has not replied, and has again reverted the edits by User:JA1776. I also note that another editor has joined the discussion at the article talk page, Talk:Purdue University Global. I am adding them to the list of editors and will notify them.

    Participation at DRN is voluntary. If Ushistorygeek does not respond, moderated discussion will be impossible. What the next steps are for JA1776 are described in the discussion failure essay, but maybe further discussion at the article talk page might be useful. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:50, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    @Robert McClenon. Thank you for tagging me the in comment below and leaving a comment on my talk page about this discussion. I was unaware of this discussion forum until now and I welcome the opportunity to have a third party assist in moving us forward with a resolution. Ushistorygeek (talk) 00:58, 3 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    Zeroth statements by editors (Purdue)

    I am new to this process so apologies if I get something wrong but I believe I am supposed to get things started here:

    First, the statement that "Graham Holdings is entitled to receive 12.5% of Purdue Global's operating revenue" conflicts with the wording in the rest of the article and the citations I have offered such as this one. I propose that instead, we keep it consistent with how it's described in the body of the article such as "may receive 12.5% of Purdue Global's operating revenue if certain financial benchmarks are met." The wording matters because to my knowledge, the conditions to pay the full 12.5% have never occurred.

    Second, I do not believe the current intro gives readers an adequate synopsis of what Purdue Global is today and how it's governed by Purdue. The lede summarizes the history of its creation and relationship with Kaplan but outside one or two sentences at most, it fails to go beyond that. I suggest a paragraph summarizing what Purdue Global is today and a paragraph summarizing its creation and relationship to Kaplan.

    Third, all this matters because there are critics of online education who want to give readers the impression that Purdue Global is nothing more than Kaplan and the story of its start. I don't object to including that viewpoint, but balance requires space for a description of what the school looks like today and for the viewpoint of those who believe Purdue has transformed the school into an effective and mainstream, public adult-education university.

    I have tried to make these corrections through many attempts but feel like they have mostly been reverted.

    Charles III

    – New discussion.
    Closed discussion
    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Have you discussed this on a talk page?

    Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

    Location of dispute

    Users involved

    Dispute overview

    The dispute is over changing the opening sentence of the "Accession and coronation plans" section. Three editors favour the change: 1, 2, and 3. Two editors do not: [1, 2. The remainder of those working on the article appear to be neutral. There has been extensive discussion. However, the situation is now a basic edit-war; one party no longer engages in discussion; the others have reached the point of repeating themselves. This is within the context of a taskforce working over the past couple of months to get the article to GA status ahead of the article subject's coronation on 6 May; the dispute appears to be the one thing now preventing that from happening.

    How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?

    How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?

    Assist with encouraging some editors to communicate with cogent arguments, show flexibility, and a willingness to compromise in order to find a mutually satisfactory resolution as soon as possible, given the article taskforce's looming deadline.

    Summary of dispute by Miesianiacal

    The article has been the focus of a taskforce over the past couple of months aiming to get it to GA status ahead of Charles' coronation on 6 May.

    Within that effort, it was agreed to conduct a brief RfC on the article's first sentence, to give guidance on what to do with said sentence before the deadline of 5 May.

    With the outcome of that RfC becoming clearer as the taskforce's deadline approaches, editors began trying to make edits to other parts of the article body that work in conjunction with the article opening, expanding on the brief first sentence of the lede; first in the lede's fourth paragraph (not the best place, IMHO), then in the "Accession and coronation plans" section (which fits better with the purpose of the lede-body relationship, as defined by WP:LEDE).

    Every attempt, however, is simply reverted.

    Tries have been made at discussing the matter. However, as I see it, neither party opposed to the changes has presented a credible reasoning for their actions and have been relying on reverting. One is now aiming to start an RfC in the hopes that will render their preferred wording in the article inviolable until well past coronation day.

    This dispute is now one of the reasons GA status is being held off. Some editors are flexible and open to compromise. An injection of impartial, fresh input is required. --₪ MIESIANIACAL 21:31, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    Summary of dispute by 109.etc

    Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

    Summary of dispute by DeCausa

    Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

    Summary of dispute by GoodDay

    Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

    I'm still planning an RFC, concerning this content dispute. In the meantime, I'll wait until the current 'lead' RFC concludes. As for 'here', I'll wait & see, what the other parties input are. GoodDay (talk) 20:52, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    Summary of dispute by DrKay

    Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

    Decline: Related to the same topic as a current request for comment at Talk:Charles III#RfC on opening sentence, which follows on from another one: I'm hesitant to start an RfC with one already ongoing above, said Miesianiacal two weeks ago. See also [7]. Another RfC is planned for when that one ends[8][9][10][11]. DrKay (talk) 21:09, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    Charles III discussion

    Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Love jihad

    – General close. See comments for reasoning.
    Closed discussion
    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Have you discussed this on a talk page?

    Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

    Location of dispute

    Users involved

    Dispute overview

    This page is evidently biased from the first paragraph, there is an attempt to dismiss and downplay the love jihad as just a conspiracy theory and clear bigotry against hindus by stating that "Hindu women are possessions of men". The editor outrightly refuses to accept a report from Times of India stating it is not reliable. But at the same time the same page has 24 references stories from times of India.

    How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Love_jihad#NIA(National_Investigation_Agency)_Report_on_Love_jihad_should_be_included_in_this_page.

    How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?

    This page should be unbiased and neutral based on facts and not allow jihadi sympathisers to vandalise the page to suite their agenda. There is an attempt to dismiss and downplay the Love jihad angle like the london grooming gangs. A lone wolf terror attack is still a terrorist act. By dismissing love jihad as just a conspiracy theory this page is being unfair to the victims of love jihad. There are cases of Nimisha fathima, who is in afghan jail after being victim of love jihad.

    Love jihad discussion

    Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Aryan race

    – General close. See comments for reasoning.
    Closed discussion
    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Have you discussed this on a talk page?

    Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

    Location of dispute

    Users involved

    Dispute overview

    On a series of 12 changes, I made certain improvements to the article content: I copy-edited parts of the content, added material complimenting previous concepts briefly introduced, added citations to academic dissertations, and added a cleanup tag to a paragraph that violated the original research policy. However, all of these changes were mass-reverted by an editor stating that none of these changes made any improvement to the article. It was further reverted by another involved editor for pretty much the same reason, but this editor has not discussed it on the talk page yet. I have explained in extensive detail and provided context to every diff I made, but I have not received an explanation from both the involved editors and the discussion was stonewalled.

    How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?

    How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?

    I believe the changes I made definitely made improvements to the article, and therefore I would like to restore the changes. The discussion was stonewalled on the talk page, and it is going nowhere. So I would like someone to intervene to resolve the dispute on whether it improves the articles and therefore be restored or not.

    Summary of dispute by Beyond My Ken

    Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

    I will not be participating in this DR, as the issue has not yet been thoroughly discussed on the article's talk page. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:57, 3 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    BTW, I am not watching this page. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:02, 4 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    Summary of dispute by Czello

    Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

    Aryan race discussion

    Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.

    The issue has been thoroughly discussed on the article's talk page and the involved editor has been WP:STONEWALLING and reluctant to adopt the proposed change and insisting on status quo stonewalling without a legitimate reason. --WikiLinuz {talk} 01:31, 4 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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